Concrete Proof that Chemtrail Central is a Disinfo Palace

[Jeff Reynolds]

These dumbasses have finally picked on the wrong people to antagonise. I have stumbled across definitive proof that Chemtrail Centrail is a disinformation palace. If May41970 hadn't started the ctc changes thread, I am not sure if this would have happened. If the dumbasses hadn't gone out of their way to needle us, I don't believe this would have happened. I will try to power out this information as fast as I can. If trolls try to interrupt the flow of this information, please just scroll past their blatherings. This is shocking information, and once it is out in the open, there will be no possible rebuttal. Put a fork in CTC. Chemtrails are real, but chemtrail forums are not.


I will give a brief description of this photo since it may become deleted. It is allegedly from a real pilot named ALCON777. It is taken from the cockpit, and the pilot is pointing to a couple "trails". Now if one were to present the best photos of chemtrails to prove they are real, these would not be close to sufficient. There is a white haze in the sky, but there is no way to know if that came from aircraft emissions. The 2 "trails" do seem to intersect, but they aren't very big, and they might very well just be "persistent contrails". One really needs to observe over hours of time to understand the deliberate nature of the operations.

The point is that here was supposedly a real pilot who says he believes in chemtrails. So it was yippee from the peanut gallery. I am actually shocked how easy it was to find what I am about to present. I will try not to make too many comments, just when it seems appropriate. I will let the following materials speak for themselves.

[Jeff Reynolds]

This is ALCON777's profile.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/foru...wprofile&u=136

Joined: 02 Jan 2001
Location: Montgomery, TX / La Jolla, CA
Occupation: Airline Captain
Interests: Sailing- Racing-Tennis- Swimming- Biking-Surfing
posts;20

I entered cockpit in the image database. Nothing turns up. The one image posted above is all there seems to be for ALCON777, eventhough he posted many links to his cockpit photos. All those links are broken.

Here is the link to his 20 posts:
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/foru...uthor=ALCON777

Some of those links themselves are broken. The ones that take you anywhere usually end up at one of his inane posts or to a broken link of his alleged cockpit photos. While I found it strange that all his photos were missing except for the one above, I was about to chalk it all up to being, yeah, these websites always have plenty of broken links, so what's the big deal, right?

But right when I was about to close shop and get off the internet, I read a bit closer through a thread titled "COCKPIT Photos added" PostThu Apr 11, 2002 5:35 pm
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread1765.html

I kept noticing that posters kept responding to someone I couldn't tell who it was. They kept referring to "i bystander" or 'ib". I went to the CTC members list and couldn't find anyone near that name. Then I forget where I saw it, but the name turned out to be "innocent bystander". Again I went to the member index and couldn't find any "innocent bystander". Eventually I went to google, and to my shock I found a mirror image of the thread including IB's posts. CTC used to have a different server. Many have probably noticed this. I think the old board had a better look to it. But anyway, I was shocked to find the same thread, but that it included another pilot's debate. Without Innocent Bystander the thread makes no sense. With his words in it, it makes complete sense.

May41970 asked Thermit the other day what other threads and whatnot has he been deleting. Now if readers here think so what, big deal, just wait and see how the old thread reads compared to the new one. Consider that back in 2002, chemtrail awareness was just getting off the ground, that if someone was a debunker back then, they might have had good reason to be. Like Dewey, they just might have never seen them before. Trust me, we haven't even touched the surface yet as to how this shows CTC is a disinfo palace.

[Jeff Reynolds]

The address to the original thread:
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/...ML/001159.html
The google cache address for the original thread:
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

The new address for the thread:
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread1765.html
Here is the post where it was revealed that "ib" is innocent bystander:
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/foru...128.html#24128


I simply plugged in the name of the thread with "innocent bystander", and that is how I was able to see the original thread. Now I put nothing past the disinfo cretins to try to erase all this crap. The key to all this is that we no longer can trust that website. How many threads have vanished? If anything good was ever revealed on a thread, would they have made all those vanish too?

Just in case, at the least I am going to copy and paste all of Innocent Bystander's comments. From what I can see, nothing else has been altered. I will stop trying to steer the reader anymore. I will just say that the disappearance of the man's posts completely messed up the thread and changed it into a friggin fake debunker versus fake believer script. It is just like when cydoniaquest deleted most of his posts, many times destroying complete threads. I now believe that CTC has pruned and deleted so much that it is unlikey that it is anything other than a disinfo palace.

There is a 7 hour time difference between the original thread with "IB" and the sanitized version. If the original link is tossed then just figure in the time difference. If both threads end up being deleted, then it will be clear evidence that they are desperate and that their scam has finally been exposed.

[Jeff Reynolds]

posted 04-13-2002 09:50 PM
alcon777,

what type of aicraft do you fly. i take it from your username that it is a 777. do you fly for a major airline?

are you the person who took these photos? i only ask because i remember seeing these photos well over a year ago (maybe longer). anyway, as an airline pilot, i am sure that you would agree that you see very similar sights on a day to day basis. the trails in these photos may very well be chemtrails, but you have to admit that they look just like all the other trails that we see from the flightdeck.

just curious, as a professional aviator, what do you see in these photos that separate them from all other contrails that we see from the flightdeck?

from one boeing pilot to another
IB

posted 04-14-2002 05:34 PM
alcon777,

i tried searching for your posts alcon, but the search here only provides this thread. are you too busy to answer them again?

dont bother. just answer this one question please. how do the trails in your photos differ from all the other trails that you observe from the flightdeck. i only ask because they look just like the contrails that i see from the flightdeck. what makes you think that these particular trails are chemtrails?

did you take these photos. if so i guess that means that you use to fly the MD80. i assume that you dont now as you have "777" in your username. just curious, how do you like the triple 7? what are your feelings on the new envelope protections incorporated?

nice to talk to another pilot. i look forward to your thoughts on the chemtrail matter as you are the first that i have met that believes in them.

regards
IB

posted 04-14-2002 10:29 PM
alcon

if you dont want to discuss aviation with me that is fine, but dont make up some bogus line about another board. i have never discussed anything with you before. i have never even noticed your name until i saw this thread.

what peaked my interest was the fact that you, like myself, are an airline pilot. i have never met a fellow pilot who believed in chemtrails and i am interested in what brought you to your conclusions.

i was interested in what you saw in those trails, (if indeed it was you who took the photos, you never answered me on that one) to make you take pictures of them. to me they look exactly like the contrails that i see from my flightdeck. i also asked how you liked the MD80 and 777. what is wrong with that? i am not doubting you, i am just very interested in how you got to this point.

i was hoping that we could have a civilized, intellectual discussion on the subject, one aviator to another. but it seams to me that you are avoiding my inquiries. why?

p.s if you would rather converse via email, that is fine. let me know what it is and i will contact you.

posted 04-16-2002 11:16 AM
alcon,

why cant you answer a simple question?

what makes the trails in these particular photos questionable? to me they do not look any different than the contrails that i see every time i go up. what am i missing? if alcon cant answer, maybe someone else can.

if you live in houston and you fly an MD-80 then i am guessing that you fly for Continental. am i right? do you still fly the -80? i know quite a few guys who fly it and they all love it.

i am very interested in what brought you to your beliefs. what have you seen that caused you to question the contrails that you were seeing?

bob b
the aircraft in the photo is an MD-80. although all airliners are maintained to a wonderful standard, they do get normal wear and tear. i dont think the "plastiform" above the window is damaged but i am not sure as i have never flown an MD-80.

" If it was in the air, the pilot and passengers were lucky to survive!"

well, bob, i fly through trails all the time that look exactly like these and i am still alive and kicking.

{continued}

[Jeff Reynolds]

posted 04-16-2002 01:29 PM
sorry 3t, i dont bring my camera with me to work.

anyway, since alcon is obviously avoiding me, can anyone explain to me why the trails in his pics are chemtrails. what are you seeing that i am not. i want to know what i should be looking for.


posted 04-17-2002 11:49 AM
well i was going to thank deborah for at least trying to answer my questions, but she went and deleted her response to me. the one thing that i do remember was her saying that the "x" trails in the cockpit photos are signs of chemtrails. this doesnt make sense to me. there are literally thousands of jets in the skies over america at one time. they do not all fly parallel to one another. this means that their flight paths cross all the time. if two jets making contrails cross one another doesnt it stand to reason that their contrails would also cross leaving an "x"? so once again i ask mr alcon, what leaves you to believe that the trails in your photos are chemtrails? why are you afraid to have a dialogue with me? these are legitimate questions. it seems that my legitimate questions p**ses everyone off here. if you guys cant answer my questions here how are you going to do in front of a congressional hearing or CNN? are you going to be mad when a senator asks you the very same question?

i must admit that alcon intrigues me. as i stated before, i have never met another pilot who believed in them. as a matter of fact, i can count on one hand the number who has even heard of them. so if alcon believes that means that maybe there are more. i just want to know what initially made him suspicious. what is he seeing that i am not.

chem11 stated in response to my question,
"Pesristent trails forming when atmospheric conditions do not allow for 'contrail' formation"

thats all good and well, chem11, but do you have the atmospheric data at the time and altitude for the pictures taken? i assume that you dont so why then have you assumed that they are chemtrails. do they look different (besides the "x" which i think that i have explained)

as to Kucinich. has he ever mentioned chemtrails besides to the one, undefined and since removed reference in the bill?

also, i skimmed through the rense article linked above. it makes this statement,"The unusual white plumes reported by Air Canada pilots". does anyone know where this came from? where are the actual documented statements from the pilots? mr rense seems to have a knack for taking quotes, substantiated or unsubstantiated, who knows, out of context.

posted 04-17-2002 03:37 PM
sorry deb,

last night before i went to bed i checked this thread and saw a post that responded to my questions. this morning i went back to respond and could not find it. i saw that you had a post with the context deleted and assumed it was yours.

my apologies

posted 04-18-2002 01:51 AM
chem11,

"You asked what to look for, I responded and now you are engaged in some sort of imaginal conversation"

wrong chem11, every question i have asked on this thread was regarding alcon's pictures. i'll ask again; what in alcon's cockpit pics leads you to believe that the trails photographed are chemtrails? i actually was trying to ask alcon, but he seems unable to answer a simple question. as he was piloting his MD-80 around the wild blue yonder, what brought his attention to these specific trails? i am saying that the trails in his pics look EXACTLY like the contrails that i see from my flightdeck. since alcon is unable to provide me with an answer, i asked if anyone else here could explain why the trails in alcons photos are chem.

regarding are favorite socialist congressman, please refer me to a quote where he is talking about chemtrails. somehow this word (apparently) got into a rough draft. it was the only "weapon" in the entire bill that was not defined. but listening to the people here you would think that he was out on the trail campaigning against chemtrails. there is an entire thread here claiming that kucinich is your hero. all i want to know is what he has said. all of the direct quotes from him have to do with space based weapons and nothing to do with chemtrails. are chemtrails now space-based? has anyone here attempted to contact him for clarification. it seems that no one wants to investigate this any further. why is this? is it because you are afraid that the whole thing was either a misunderstanding or maybe even a fake?

believe it or not, i am not trying to be argumentative, but getting a straight answer out of you guys is like pulling teeth.

so hopefully for the last time, i will ask;
(1) what leads you to believe that the trails in captain alcon's photos are chemtrails. please explain to me why they cant be ordinary contrails

(2) please link me to a quote where dennis kucinich was railing against chemtrails.

these are simple inquiries. why have i had to repeat myself 20 times on this thread.

someone please help me to understand.

posted 04-18-2002 11:21 PM
sorry guys, i am not sure how to post pics here, so try these links.

these are for 3T, she/he wanted pics from me. these arent from me but they are contrails seen from other aircraft that look remarkably like alcon's.

{He then posted links from 11:27-11:32 p.m.}
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=181183
www.airliners.net/open.file?id=220130
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=227235


looks like this guy turned off one of his sprayers www.airliners.net/open.file?id=090615

{Unlike ALCON777, his links still work, strange ain't it?}

posted 04-18-2002 11:43 PM
sorry guys. i'm sure that there was a much better way to link these photos but i am too stupid to figure it out.

now, i challenge anyone here to OBJECTIVELY look at the photos that i have linked and compare them to alcons. please describe to me in detail why alcons are chem and mine are con. why cant my photos be chemtrails? conversely, why cant alcons by contrails?

there are actually a lot more of these types of photos for anyone who is interested. the site is called "airliners.net" just go into this site and change the category to "air to air photos"

i will only post others if they are really noteworthy. actually i think that you will find that alcons are quite unremarkable, which was my point all along

anyway, thanks for listening.

posted 04-21-2002 01:20 AM
eyesopen,

it is very hard to tell the type of aircraft because of the poor quality of the picture. but it appears to me to be an A340. (a very common airliner in your part of the country). my only question to you is when you saw this trail, why did you conclude that it was a chemtrail. what is the difference between the chemtrail in this photo and a contrail?

"This one was not the typical white jet"

why did you make this statement? what made this aircraft different than the others? it is very hard to make out the airplane in this photo. what details are you seeing that i am not.

"I watched them start over my house before 7:00 AM and they are still at it hard 9 hours later. The sky has clouded over by this activity. Don't believe if you don't want but all these jets definately changed the sky today here"

eyes, the airspace over your location is one of the busiest on the face of the earth. almost all of the air traffic between the U.S. and europe uses the airspace above you. you said that "The sky has clouded over by this activity". well we all know that contrails can turn into cirrus clouds that last the better part of the day. so it is not unusual in busy airspaces for contrails to "cloud over" the sky.

i hate to admit it but i have flown over your area numerous times. how do you tell the difference between my 767 and a chemtrail airplane?

{continued}

[Jeff Reynolds]

posted 04-22-2002 10:42 PM
eyesopen,

thanks for the civil response. i really do appreciate it. i usually dont get a warm response when i try to give a benign explanation for some of the things that are reported here.

let me fallow up on a couple of points. first of all, did you look at my links that i posted earlier in this thread? even though i wanted people to compare these trails to alcons i'll ask you the same; do they differ from yours and how.

"I watched the persistent part of the trail for a couple of hours before it spread out to a haze - joining a dozen or so more persistent trails just like it over my house and in the near area."

first of all we have to establish if you believe that contrails can persist for hours. if you do not then we have a problem, but lets assume that you will trust myself, meteorologists and even thermit and accept the fact that contrails often do persist for several hours eventually even forming a cirrus layer. you seem to try to make a point that it was more than one that left persistent trails. this is even more proof that they were just normal contrails. all the airliners flying through that particular airmass would leave persistent contrails.

"Typical white jet: Most aircraft I associate with "contrail" activity over my area are all white (some have a orange or red mark on the tail ans some seem to have a low visibility paint scheme)."

eyes, go to airliners.net and check out the multitude of paint schemes. they are infinite. the reason that the majority of the aircraft are mostly white is because this is currently a very popular (and boring) scheme with the marketing weenies in charge of these things. but, there are also a lot of wild paint schemes also. but to be honest, it is impossible to tell how the aircraft in your photo is painted because of the distance from the aircraft.

"Some days,like today, I see no jets at all - not one so far today"

it is extremely difficult to see aircraft at cruising altitudes unless they are producing contrails. is it possible that this is the reason that you arent seeing them on certain days? just because they arent producing trails doesnt mean that they are not up there. they are, if is just tough to see them.

"Also I watch these jets fly very close to each other. Way too close for me to think it is normal commercial aircraft. Do you fly right at another jet and cross it's path at extremely close distances?"

in a word, yes. all the time. while we are usually separated by 20 miles or so horizontally, we are only separated by 1000 ft vertically. as a matter of fact, it looks exactly like the other aircraft is flying right at you. another point, if you see two aircraft flying the same direction and seemingly for close to another, how do you know that they are not at different altitudes?

hope this helps and let me know if you have any other questions.

posted 04-23-2002 11:18 AM
deborah,

i would be glad to address your questions specifically if you would also agree to answer my questions specifically. i'll go first:

"I'm asking you, point-blank, why you seem to find it so strange that people continue to be concerned that our skies are now CLOGGED with these damned trails for what is becoming, in many regions, a majority of the time. And why do you not seem to feel that this is a PROBLEM?"

ah, your "green" side is starting to show.
please search my comments on this forum and find one quote where i stated this. i have never even discussed the problems if increasing contrail formation and its possible effects on our weather. for the record, i do not believe that contrails are currently a problem but they very well may be in the future. it is something that has been studied and will be studied further. as to your weather, i think that if you really think about it you will find that your weather changes from year to year and is never exactly the same. there are 5,10,20,100,1000 year cycles. do you have any data to support a major climatic change in your area and that it is the direct result of contrails. the scientist dont yet.
but be careful, deb, if you discuss contrails too much you might be labeled a debunker.

"Because, in my opinion, it IS crap - and it IS affecting regional weather and climate patterns."

once again, and i hate to be a stickler, but where is the data to support this? if it is so dramatic then why has it alluded the scientific community? contrails are not destroying our weather but we do need to watch and make sure that there is not a problem brewing.

"And people ARE getting sick from these changes."

i guess we are now back on chemtrails, because contrails do not make anyone sick. my question is how do you know this to be fact? where are the stats showing the emergency rooms and doctors offices overflowing with mysterious ailments. please refer me to a medical conference that was called specifically do deal with this odd occurrences. the truth of the matter is it isnt happening. do you believe that everyone that suddenly comes down with a "respertory illness" is a victim of chemtrails. i assume your answer is no. then please tell me how you know the difference between your good old fashioned respertory problem and the chemtrail induced kind.

"Please don't ask me to *prove it*. I can only speak for myself but I'm telling you that I've been watching this situation for three years now and that conditions on the surface here in my area have changed SIGNIFICANTLY since summer 1999."

ok, i will not bother you for that pesky evidence stuff. but let me ask you a simple question, please tell me how it has changed so dramatically. do you have any data to back up your assertion? you know, our memories are not always completely accurate, i know mine is not.

ok, i did my part, now its your turn to do the same and answer my specific questions.

(1) please look at the links that i provided on this thread and compare them to alcon's cockpit photos. please tell me why his show chemtrails and mine do not.

(2)have you ever researched the air traffic over your head? if not i can provide a list if the airways and routes that are above you. as i stated before, it is an extremely busy airspace and i am not referring to the local boston traffic. i am talking about enroute traffic. you said earlier that on some days there are many jets and some days there are none. forget about the chemtrail jets for one second. what happens to the regular airliners? do they just not fly over your on certain days? i think that you will find that they are always up there whether you can see them or not. try Flight Explorer, it will answer a lot of your questions.

(3) you mentioned that the aircraft in your photo was odd and did not resemble the airliners that you are use to seeing. you think it is possible that you are just not familiar with the hundreds of different airline liveries that fly over your area. we are not talking about a handfull here. but my question to you here goes to one's perception. look at your photo again and describe to me its paint scheme. you stated that it was different than the others. i am stating that i not only cant tell the paint scheme, but i am having a hard time even telling what type of aircraft it is. whether you like to admit it or not, i am a pilot and i would wager that my aircraft i.d. skills are better than yours. i am not bragging but this just stands to reason. now, tell me what you are seeing in that photo that i am not. what details do you make out that i cant.

posted 04-24-2002 01:36 AM
eyes,

"This one was not the typical white jet"

sorry that i put words in your mouth, but what did you mean by this statement? i used the word "odd". is that word not appropriate? not "typical" would be "odd", dont you think. by the way, to set the record straight, i responded to all your questions and you responded to none of mine. you are not holding up your end of the bargain eyes!

for captain alcon,

why dont you be a man and respond to just one of my questions that i had for you. what are you afraid of? i just checked out your cozumel trail. nice contrail. would someone please explain to me why it is not a contrail. anyone? thermit? chem11? come one now, why is the trail in captain alcon's last photo not a contrail? has anyone ever seen a contrail that looked liked alcon's?

by the way, buenos noches alcon. tu eres un piloto? i doubt it. what school did you attend or are you a military brat?

OK, maybe Innocent Bystander was a bit annoying to mix up just a bit who was saying what, but he seemed to be a very sincere person. He may have been part of the script, but I think it was more likely that he was a real person. I think CTC spooks played off of him being a real debunker. I believe that he just hadn't seen chemtrails before and was curious. And if a place was putting up a lot of kooky materials and links, how could one blame a pilot back in 2002 of thinking chemtrails are contrails. It's not like we can see what ALCON777 put up for photos anyway. If it was anything like the one here in the first post, then I am leaning towards IB being a real person. It is just very bizarre that all his posts were deleted, that they vanished. Where these spooks have messed up is that they forgot to delete the original version. If they were really that clever, they wouldn't be spooks!

[Jeff Reynolds]

So then Thermit prances on in and makes it seem that IB was a destructive troll. Au contraire if one reads through all these quotes I just pasted. Listen, I have a friend who has told me I was wrong about chemtrails for two years. Now he has come around and agrees, based on what he sees. If CTC was putting up garbage photos and kooky links, then there was every reason a real pilot might want to know why people think they are being sprayed like bugs.

Thermit the fake: {troll alert icon}
IB, I can't believe you are now being so rude. Nobody is required to answer your questions, and certainly nobody should be required to listen to your insults. The technical glitch that we suffered from recently apparently nuked your profile. Let's just leave it that way. Don't come back...

Thermit must work for the man after all.
But I am not done. Even way back in 2002, one could see that Deborah and Chem11 seemed to be in on the fake script. I'm a bit tired, so I'll get to those revealing tidbits when I can. I'm just not sure how CTC can recover from this type of blatant bullshit being exposed.

[Jeff Reynolds]

I just made my last post ever to the disinformation palace known as Chemtrail Central.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/foru...56.html#106356

"Someone Forgot to Delete a Copy of a Thread"
I was reading through this CTC thread titled "COCKPIT Photos added" by ALCON777.

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread1765.html

I noticed that people kept referring to "ib" or "IB" or even "I bystander"" and I just could not figure it out until someone said innocent bystander. So I went to Google and plugged in innocent bystander cockpit photos added etc., and I found the original thread with IB's posts.

With his posts in there, the thread makes perfect sense. Without him it didn't make any sense. Well here is the original. I am willing to let the reader decide.

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/...ML/001159.html

I wonder how many will get to see this post. Oh yes, I'll crosspost to debatebothsides.com. So nuke me, nuke both threads. You've already nuked ALCON777's photos of what were probably not that good of evidence. Perhaps this was CTC's version of "Deep Shield" or "The Mechanic" hoaxes.

And to think, it just took a couple of nobodies to figure all this out. You ought to be ashamed CTC. Put a fork in it. Go ahead and nuke my profile. Maybe ban me all together from your site, even from reading. Next time delete the evidence and ban the free thinkers. There's some tinfoil by association to get to, isn't there? Tell us about Alpha-Theta and Cydoniaquest, Thermit. It must be tough to find good spooks nowadays.

Lame. You are the Yankees of 2004. You could have had it all, just too many mistakes. No way to cover this up now. You deserve a lot of blame for the continuance of the chemtrail program Thermit. You need to repent. You might as well be up there in the planes spraying us you lousy no good fake.

[may41970]

Hey Jeff, I've just read this thread from beginning to end, Amazing stuff.

I think I've got more admiration and respect for this chemtrails SCEPTIC, than nearly every chemtrails poster I can think of. It's so nice to read from a sane, rational, logical person that admires truth and facts and evidence. He also seems to have good nose for fakes.

How refreshing to read a post from a real person. A breath of fresh air. It's not clear to me yet whether ib deleted his own posts or thermit did - but thermit's assinine comment about not bothering to repair the computer glitch, makes me assume that thermit deleted the thread.

But whether thermit deleted it or not, it makes no difference. It's already confirmed that Chemtrails Central destroys threads. It's already confirmed that Chemtrails Central lies.

Yeah, Chemtrails Central is a palace of disinformation. I agree totally.

may


PS - What are you trying to do jeff, give thermit and his little peon paid clerks heart attacks?

[halva]

"What are you trying to do" is the best question that has been so far asked.