Lib - A Voice breaking the rules AGAIN using Multiple IDs?

[Sol]

Lib, I know you look the other way when A Voice breaks the rules on a weekly basis, but here's another one for the huge clusterfuck of abuses and problems that her promotion has caused DBS.

I talked to Sam in PM all the time when this place was AO, and DBS.

The story "Mandi" told on DBS about her relationship with Sam was the exact story Sam relayed to me multiple times about how he and A Voice met and were briefly together. Also notice that both Mandi and A Voice have all the info on Sam, and that Mandi's cheesy wording matches A Voice's tone exactly when she tries to write that way:

http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=755412&postcount=25
What a shock to read about Sam Ayaam's death from a post by his mom! Although I was a bit in disbelief about the premature death of someone whom I had a brief yet intense connection with, I had no doubt that his mother's posts were genuine given what I knew about him and his relationship with his mother. I hardly post to this message board but thought that I could share my reflections concerning Chris at his virtual funeral.

I first encountered him online at the former reincarnation of this message board in 2004 as the U.S. presidential election was in full swing. I was drawn to his intellect and passion that he expressed via his posts. I loved how he played with language, as evident in his moniker.

So I did PM him and eventually met up with him about four times and also had numerous intense phone conversations with him while he lived in Southern California. I was truly impressed by his knowledge and analytical mind. For some time I thought that I might want to date him, but after experiencing some of his anger and instability, I decided we would be better off as friends. Soon after he moved up to the Bay area to look for work among other things I suppose and we lost touch.

Yet, I would occasionally come back to the message board and read his postings. I had always hoped that he would straighten out his life and make use of his incredible intellect. I knew that eventually he moved to Phoenix and did land a job or two there. When I first read his thread about being homeless in December, I became worried and tried calling his old cell phone but to avail. And now we get official confirmation of his death; it seems so much of a waste of such intellect and passion.

I am more saddened than I expected to be by his death. I am also reminded of the recent death of Anna Nicole Smith who also died at age 39. Chris probably would be a little appalled that anyone would be making such a connection, and to be sure he and Anna Nicole were two very different individuals with distinct life histories. Still both had their own personal demons that may have overwhelmed them in the end. And I could not help but wonder what if I had been more involved with Chris' life, would things have turned out differently? Of course I realize that we as individuals are responsible for our own decisions and their consequences and that I am just one person in this world. Perhaps I am even more saddened because I also lost my mother in 2006, it will be a year this April since her passing.

What continues even now is my hope that Chris will have a better, more peaceful existence wherever he may be, except now I won't be able to read about it online here. I also hope that his mother also finds peace and forgiveness, for herself especially. Chris was so real and so human, his life and death should only remind us of our own humanity, both our strengths and weaknesses.


Care to investigate?

[A Voice]

Lib, I know you look the other way when A Voice breaks the rules on a weekly basis, but here's another one for the huge clusterfuck of abuses and problems that her promotion has caused DBS.

I talked to Sam in PM all the time when this place was AO, and DBS.

The story "Mandi" told on DBS about her relationship with Sam was the exact story Sam relayed to me multiple times about how he and A Voice met and were briefly together. Also notice that both Mandi and A Voice have all the info on Sam, and that Mandi's cheesy wording matches A Voice's tone exactly when she tries to write that way:

http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=755412&postcount=25



Care to investigate?

Wow, you are really stooping low on this one, Kiddo. You must feel the need to deflect attention from yourself for the disgusting way you've been behaving on Sam's thread. But this is low even for you.

Lib is welcome to investigate. I have never felt the need to post as someone else. Unlike some people I know.

[maria]

It is not the same story. Mandi knew Chris when he was in pasadena. She was a friend of his- they never dated. Chris spoke about Mandi and his relationship with AV. His convos about AV were very different. If you don't know this, then perhaps this is an area you are uninformed about, if you do, then you know you are not being honest.

I have no idea why you want to spread rumors right now, Sol. it is in very bad taste. I know you don't really care about the fact AV is greiving, in fact you probably like that. Keep in mind, some of us have known Sam for over 5 years, have spoken with him on the phone, have met him in person and know a lot about him. There are some of us that are seriously greiving.

You have this wrong. I am sure Lib can "check into it" for you, but please stop speaking for a person you obviously knew little about.

[Sol]

It is not the same story. Mandi knew Chris when he was in pasadena. She was a friend of his- they never dated. Chris spoke about Mandi and his relationship with AV. His convos about AV were very different. If you don't know this, then perhaps this is an area you are uninformed about, if you do, then you know you are not being honest.

I have no idea why you want to spread rumors right now, Sol. it is in very bad taste. I know you don't really care about the fact AV is greiving, in fact you probably like that. Keep in mind, some of us have known Sam for over 5 years, have spoken with him on the phone, have met him in person and know a lot about him. There are some of us that are seriously greiving.

You have this wrong. I am sure Lib can "check into it" for you, but please stop speaking for a person you obviously knew little about.

Obviously enough that he told me that story.

Considering how many times A Voice has abused the rules here in the past month, it's not really that shocking that someone who heard the story from Sam would wonder. Your credibility is pretty much shit too, since you seem to only come out of retirement for the sole purpose of supporting A Voice in her misdeeds, for whatever bizzare reason that motivates you.

[maria]

Obviously enough that he told me that story.

Considering how many times A Voice has abused the rules here in the past month, it's not really that shocking that someone who heard the story from Sam would wonder. Your credibility is pretty much shit too, since you seem to only come out of retirement for the sole purpose of supporting A Voice in her misdeeds, for whatever bizzare reason that motivates you.

I haven't been in retirement. Sam did not discuss AV on the same terms he did Mandi. That is just a fact.

Do you what you want Sol, run around and see conspiracies at every corner if you must. You are wrong on this one. Have fun.

[Sol]

I haven't been in retirement. Sam did not discuss AV on the same terms he did Mandi. That is just a fact.

Do you what you want Sol, run around and see conspiracies at every corner if you must. You are wrong on this one. Have fun.
There nothing conspiracy like about the blatant abuses of power we've seen lately. It's pretty pathetic that you and Dingo have been reduced to being her little toady and doing the grunt work to obfuscate and distract people from some of the BS she has been pulling here lately.

BTW - I didn't say I know, I simply stated the facts of what Sam told me and the similarities. Like I said, A Voice's track record is very poor, as is yours, when it comes to honesty.

(And I am being incredibly decent maria, if I wasn't, I'd share some of the things he had to say about A Voice, which I'm not going to)

[maria]

There nothing conspiracy like about the blatant abuses of power we've seen lately. It's pretty pathetic that you and Dingo have been reduced to being her little toady and doing the grunt work to obfuscate and distract people from some of the BS she has been pulling here lately.

BTW - I didn't say I know, I simply stated the facts of what Sam told me and the similarities. Like I said, A Voice's track record is very poor, as is yours, when it comes to honesty.

(And I am being incredibly decent maria, if I wasn't, I'd share some of the things he had to say about A Voice, which I'm not going to)

How nice of you, Sol. Wanting to turn the knife a little further, eh? How decent of you. Enjoy your crusade. I am glad you have found a purpose.

[Lib]

The IP addresses for AV and Mandi are from two different cities a long way apart. That's not final proof but it would do in court.

[A Voice]

There nothing conspiracy like about the blatant abuses of power we've seen lately. It's pretty pathetic that you and Dingo have been reduced to being her little toady and doing the grunt work to obfuscate and distract people from some of the BS she has been pulling here lately.

BTW - I didn't say I know, I simply stated the facts of what Sam told me and the similarities. Like I said, A Voice's track record is very poor, as is yours, when it comes to honesty.

(And I am being incredibly decent maria, if I wasn't, I'd share some of the things he had to say about A Voice, which I'm not going to)

Your distain for the basic intelligence of posters around here is unique I'll give you that.

I am not worried. You see, all a poster has to do is pull up your posts for the past two weeks by clicking on your name and selecting "View all Sol's posts" and they will find your bizarre and obsessive behavior in all its clammy glory.

Though I will leave the final decision up to Lib, but this may very well be a new low in Moderator bashing.

At least you've accomplished that much.

[Lib]

Thank you for the further info, Maria. I believe you.

[Sol]

That's fine. Just noticed some striking similarities like I said.

BTW A Voice, you can't exactly play the victim, considering nothing at all has happened to you, and you've been responsible for abusing your powers to the detriment of at least half a dozen posters.

If you don't want to be scrutinized, try acting like a decent, mature person would with your moderating powers. (I know I'm asking the impossible)

[Tayken]

That's fine. Just noticed some striking similarities like I said.

BTW A Voice, you can't exactly play the victim, considering nothing at all has happened to you, and you've been responsible for abusing your powers to the detriment of at least half a dozen posters.

If you don't want to be scrutinized, try acting like a decent, mature person would with your moderating powers. (I know I'm asking the impossible)

No. 5 has also released PM's without permission. I'm wondering why that isn't a bannable offense?

[Lib]

No. 5 has also released PM's without permission. I'm wondering why that isn't a bannable offense?

"No. 5,," huh? Okay, wise guy I lifted your suspension early before the rules are published and this is how you respond starting up the insults again?. That's a mistake.

And Tayken, show us you have a brain in your head. Find the rule about PMs.

[Tayken]

"No. 5,," huh? Okay, wise guy I lifted your suspension early before the rules are published and this is how you respond starting up the insults again?. That's a mistake.

And Tayken, show us you have a brain in your head. Find the rule about PMs.

Lib if she can't moderate, then I'm going to refer to her as No. 5. She is truly No. 5 in skills of the five moderators on the list. She is a bad reflection of your management skills. A good manager would see the writing on the wall and would ask her to shape up or resign.

Now I'm going to ask you something, and I think your answer will show us if you are sincere or not. Are moderators perfectly free to post PM's without seeking or getting approval from the people they were PMing?

[Lib]

Tayken, you're not going to permitted to bash any moderator for trying to do their job. You aren't going to be permitted to insult any moderator as a moderator.

If you have issues with a moderator's decision you must be civil and must focus on the issue and you have plenty of recourse both publicly and privately explaining your case with the other moderators.

What you cannot do is attack the moderator personally for their moderating.

If this is just too harsh, if it is more than you can bear, then DBS is not the place for you.

I suggest you decide whether you can accept these limits or whether you cannot. I will be happy to accomodate you either way. It's all up to you.

[Tayken]

Tayken, you're not going to permitted to bash any moderator for trying to do their job. You aren't going to be permitted to insult any moderator as a moderator.

If you have issues with a moderator's decision you must be civil and must focus on the issue and you have plenty of recourse both publicly and privately explaining your case with the other moderators.

What you cannot do is attack the moderator personally for their moderating.

If this is just too harsh, if it is more than you can bear, then DBS is not the place for you.

I suggest you decide whether you can accept these limits or whether you cannot. I will be happy to accomodate you either way. It's all up to you.

No Lib. I tried the PM method and got a very insincere answer. I have a feeling if I appealed to you about her answer youd make me wait 5 days and then support her. You always support her actions no matter what. How would you like if the Bush Administration banned you for criticizing Bush? If she is doing a poor job, then I'm not going to keep quiet.

Let's take the reciprocal of this. Let's say I called you No. 1, because I thought you were the best moderator (which you haven't been lately). Would that be disparaging the other moderators, by setting you apart from them? Am I not allowed to express my beliefs? Am I to lie about her lack of skills?

[Lib]

I laid out the rules on taking issue with a moderator decision for you. Bashing any moderator for their moderating is not permitted.

Apparently you will not accept that and intend to break it, is that true or not?

[Tayken]

Lib if she pulls her shit again, then I'm not going to keep it private. Funny how you commit the same acts that you accuse Bush of?

Why do you refuse to answer about punishing her for making public PM's without the permission of the other party? C'mon Lib show some integrity for once.

By the way Lib. You should be admonished for going in and deleting Mike's post, where he absolutely broke no rules. I think he deserves a sincere apology from you for doing that.

[Tayken]

Bump. I want to know why a moderator can release PM's without permission and nothing is done about it?

[A Voice]

Bump. I want to know why a moderator can release PM's without permission and nothing is done about it?

You publically started a thread regarding a pm I sent you. I felt you misrepresented what had transpired. I explained my side of the story and posted my pm to you. I posted MY words and my side of the story. You have not been injured in any way.

Here it is:
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=740075&postcount=53

So, show us the Rule that has been broken by me posting my own pm? Or in your world a moderator cannot reply to public lies about them? That would make your life easier, but I regret to inform you that this is a situation that will not happen.

[A Voice]

No Lib. I tried the PM method and got a very insincere answer. I have a feeling if I appealed to you about her answer youd make me wait 5 days and then support her. You always support her actions no matter what. How would you like if the Bush Administration banned you for criticizing Bush? If she is doing a poor job, then I'm not going to keep quiet.
I'll ask again. Why is it that you are not taking Mike to task for giving you the exact same answer I did?

Let's take the reciprocal of this. Let's say I called you No. 1, because I thought you were the best moderator (which you haven't been lately). Would that be disparaging the other moderators, by setting you apart from them? Am I not allowed to express my beliefs? Am I to lie about her lack of skills?
Yes, it is disparaging to rank us by what you think is "best". It is the same as if I ranked the Conservatives on this board and refered to them by the level of discourse I believe them capable of.

Get it?

[Tayken]

You publically started a thread regarding a pm I sent you. I felt you misrepresented what had transpired. I explained my side of the story and posted my pm to you. I posted MY words and my side of the story. You have not been injured in any way.

Here it is:
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=740075&postcount=53

So, show us the Rule that has been broken by me posting my own pm? Or in your world a moderator cannot reply to public lies about them? That would make your life easier, but I regret to inform you that this is a situation that will not happen.

Because I have the courtesy to ASK someone first. You have no courtesy, no integrity at all.

[Tayken]

Yes, it is disparaging to rank us by what you think is "best". It is the same as if I ranked the Conservatives on this board and refered to them by the level of discourse I believe them capable of.

Get it?

So even though you are the shittiest moderator on this board, I must act happy and say nothing, whenever you fuck up or do your little petty power plays, right No. 5?

[Lib]

So even though you are the shittiest moderator on this board, I must act happy and say nothing, whenever you fuck up or do your little petty power plays, right No. 5?

Knock this crap off, Tayken and now. I lifted your suspension a couple of weeks early because I thought you were going to act like a grown up who understands they have a handful of rules to follow in exchange for the privilege of posting here..

If you have a complaint about a specific moderator action you can PM the moderator and make your case, PM all the moderators and make your case or discuss it here to your heart's content. However, you must be civil, address the issue and you can't bash the moderator ad hominem about their moderating.

If this is too horrible to accept then this is not the place for you, so leave. Keep doing what you are doing and I will do it for you.

We have wasted entirely too much time on you.

[Kuni]

I thought the Rule exception that allowed posts attacks on the Mod’s was ONLY if effect for the month of February.

It’s now March. Start enforcing the Rules.

This shit is getting tiresome. And I’m noticing that the site is taking way too long to load; so someone is wasting bandwidth somewhere.

[Tayken]

Knock this crap off, Tayken and now. I lifted your suspension a couple of weeks early because I thought you were going to act like a grown up who understands they have a handful of rules to follow in exchange for the privilege of posting here..

If you have a complaint about a specific moderator action you can PM the moderator and make your case, PM all the moderators and make your case or discuss it here to your heart's content. However, you must be civil, address the issue and you can't bash the moderator ad hominem about their moderating.

If this is too horrible to accept then this is not the place for you, so leave. Keep doing what you are doing and I will do it for you.

We have wasted entirely too much time on you.


LOL. Act like a grown up? Should I show them your Esbe type hissy fits over on Hypercrites? Lib I want answers. PM brushes it under the rug. If you haven't done anything wrong then you shouldn't demand it be put in PM's.

[Tayken]

I thought the Rule exception that allowed posts attacks on the Mod’s was ONLY if effect for the month of February.

It’s now March. Start enforcing the Rules.

This shit is getting tiresome. And I’m noticing that the site is taking way too long to load; so someone is wasting bandwidth somewhere.

LOL. It isn't even on the main board. I can see you are being disingenuous again. But then why should that be a surprise?

[Kuni]

LOL. It isn't even on the main board. I can see you are being disingenuous again. But then why should that be a surprise?And you can show us in the Rules where it says that it has to be in the main board?

Claiming that this isn’t the “Main Board” thus implying that these Posts are somehow exempt is DISENGENOUS; not what I posted.

The Rules were relaxed for February; it is now March and as that this sounds like a personal problem deal with it in PM.

[Tayken]

And you can show us in the Rules where it says that it has to be in the main board?

Claiming that this isn’t the “Main Board” thus implying that these Posts are somehow exempt is DISENGENOUS; not what I posted.

The Rules were relaxed for February; it is now March and as that this sounds like a personal problem deal with it in PM.

LOL Claiming this section is somehow part of the main body of DBS is a lie. But what else would we expect from you?

Yes tattle on me Kuni. God forbid if you only have liberals left on this horrible board. Also due to a very bogus banning, I think I should be given some freedom to post my pent up frustration with the management of this board for the time I was conveniently banned. Lib is acting worse on Hypercrites than Esbe has ever acted on DBS. I just want answers for the very apparent double standards we've seen lately.

[Kuni]

LOL Claiming this section is somehow part of the main body of DBS is a lie. But what else would we expect from you?And you can show where I sad this was the “main body”? I’d like to see that one. Back to your usual lies I see.

I suggest you read what I wrote carefully. I was pointing out your disingenuous implication that just because this wasn’t the ‘main body’; that somehow it was exempt from the Rules.

Yes tattle on me Kuni. God forbid if you only have liberals left on this horrible board. Also due to a very bogus banning, I think I should be given some freedom to post my pent up frustration with the management of this board for the time I was conveniently banned. Lib is acting worse on Hypercrites than Esbe has ever acted on DBS. I just want answers for the very apparent double standards we've seen latelyI notice that you have not lost the skill of talking out both sides of your mouth. How could I be tattling on you, if I was the one being disingenuous? Either what I posted is true, or it is not. If it wasn’t true; then there is nothing to tattle on.

Did you think of that one before running off at the mouth?

But even then I cannot be tattling, because the Mod’s are fully capable of reading your posts themselves without me bringing it to their attention. As a matter of fact your own whining posts bump this Thread.

I’m asking them to start enforcing the Rule about attacking Mod’s in public as that February is over and I’m getting tired of these Threads showing up in the “new posts”.

[Tayken]

And you can show where I sad this was the “main body”? I’d like to see that one. Back to your usual lies I see.

I suggest you read what I wrote carefully. I was pointing out your disingenuous implication that just because this wasn’t the ‘main body’; that somehow it was exempt from the Rules.

I notice that you have not lost the skill of talking out both sides of your mouth. How could I be tattling on you, if I was the one being disingenuous? Either what I posted is true, or it is not. If it wasn’t true; then there is nothing to tattle on.

Did you think of that one before running off at the mouth?

But even then I cannot be tattling, because the Mod’s are fully capable of reading your posts themselves without me bringing it to their attention. As a matter of fact your own whining posts bump this Thread.

I’m asking them to start enforcing the Rule about attacking Mod’s in public as that February is over and I’m getting tired of these Threads showing up in the “new posts”.


The usual Kuni insincere bullshit. I'd never trust you with my money or with a girlfriend.

[Lib]

Tayken, I don't care what you post or from where but, I've laid out your obligations as respects moderators and issues you have with noderator decisions. The rules apply to everyone and there are no exceptions for you.

[Tayken]

Tayken, I don't care what you post or from where but, I've laid out your obligations as respects moderators and issues you have with noderator decisions. The rules apply to everyone and there are no exceptions for you.

Do they apply to the moderators Lib?

[Lib]

Do they apply to the moderators Lib?

Moderators as posters sure.

[Kuni]

The usual Kuni insincere bullshit. I'd never trust you with my money or with a girlfriend.As that I don’t need, and you don’t have, either; I should care, why?

[Tayken]

Moderators as posters sure.

No Lib. I mean moderators as moderators. This means not calling posters "limp dicked" in the position as a moderator. This means not telling people to "fuck off. This means not posting PM's without someone's permission. This means not going in and deleting posts where the poster has broken no rules. This means actually following the RULES.

[Tayken]

As that I don’t need, and you don’t have, either; I should care, why?

Go stir the pot a little more. You are so transparent.

[Lib]

No Lib. I mean moderators as moderators. This means not calling posters "limp dicked" in the position as a moderator. This means not telling people to "fuck off. This means not posting PM's without someone's permission. This means not going in and deleting posts where the poster has broken no rules. This means actually following the RULES.

A moderator can call you anything they want as a poster. If they're specifically talking about moderating stuff, have their moderator hat on, they will have to be civil.

Anybody can post a PM without someone's permission. There is no rule here against it. it is a principle of good netiquette and being a good netizen that you don't post PMs without permission.

Mike published a PM that had to do with his privileged role as a moderator. That was doubly wrong whether or not there is a written rule about it. I removed it because I thought it was very harmful to the board and the moderators. I get to make such a call all by myself Tayken, and I don't care whether you like it or not. There will always be situations that aren't specifically covered in the rules where a moderator can take action. That has always been the case and will always be the case.There is actually a rule that addresses ambiguous or novel cases. Bitch your head off. It isn't going to change.

Now look, I am sick and tired of dealing with you and your endless complaints and lies about me, A Voice and the moderating.

If you think the rules and the moderators are so bad you just can't stand it then go find a new forum to enjoy you. If you're going to stay here you are going to have to live with both the rules and the moderators.

I've let you make personal attacks here since you came back and I've explained why. Very shortly that is going to change to zero tolerance and because you are a recent and multiple offender the next suspension you earn will not be for one day. So smarten up or leave. It's entirely up to you.

Now if you don't have anything new I'm through talking with you.

[Tayken]

A moderator can call you anything they want as a poster. If they're specifically talking about moderating stuff, have their moderator hat on, they will have to be civil.

Anybody can post a PM without someone's permission. There is no rule here against it. it is a principle of good netiquette and being a good netizen that you don't post PMs without permission.

Mike published a PM that had to do with his privileged role as a moderator. That was doubly wrong whether or not there is a written rule about it. I removed it because I thought it was very harmful to the board and the moderators. I get to make such a call all by myself Tayken, and I don't care whether you like it or not. There will always be situations that aren't specifically covered in the rules where a moderator can take action. That has always been the case and will always be the case.There is actually a rule that addresses ambiguous or novel cases. Bitch your head off. It isn't going to change.

Now look, I am sick and tired of dealing with you and your endless complaints and lies about me, A Voice and the moderating.

If you think the rules and the moderators are so bad you just can't stand it then go find a new forum to enjoy you. If you're going to stay here you are going to have to live with both the rules and the moderators.

I've let you make personal attacks here since you came back and I've explained why. Very shortly that is going to change to zero tolerance and because you are a recent and multiple offender the next suspension you earn will not be for one day. So smarten up or leave. It's entirely up to you.

Now if you don't have anything new I'm through talking with you.

Can a moderator call you anything AS A MODERATOR? C'mon Lib you are playing dodging games here. Please answer this or admit this is happening through your diversions. Curbing the truth isn't going to sweep it away Lib.

If they're specifically talking about moderating stuff, have their moderator hat on, they will have to be civil.

So when she is supposedly in her moderator position and states that people who criticize her are "limp dicked" or tells people to "fuck off asshole", do you consider that civil Lib?