A Voice - Documenting Her Over-Moderation

[Tim]

I have never been banned, suspended, warned, threatened or received any type of discipline from any on line forum. Additionally, I haven’t until now felt the need to complain about a moderator on any forum that I have visited. This forum (DBS) in particular has had, in my opinion, “even handed” moderating – until now.

I now believe that our fairly new moderator, A Voice, does not have the temperament or the judgment to be a moderator on this (or any) discussion board. In the few months since she was appointed as a moderator I have observed complaints of poor treatment of posters and I simply chalked them off as a necessary part of moderating a forum. However, in the last few days I have taken notice of her over-moderation on the “Sam Ayyam” thread. That has caused me to take notice of other incidents where I believe that she has overstepped her authority.

It is my intention to document here, on this thread, incidents, past and present, where she mishandles her position.

[Tim]

The Sam Ayyam Thread

http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=52364&page=2

This is a case where A Voice attempts to intercede using her full Moderator powers with implied threats. Here is how it went:

In response to a remark by donni, Josey Wales said:
God, you are a fuckin' IDIOT!!!!

So you actually believe that this guy (39) was homeless and dies and the first thing his mother does is sign up for an account on this left fringe bulletin board to tell everybody he died in his sleep, right?

The "mother's" post gives NO information! No surname, no cause of death, no arrangements, etc.

I cannot believe you fuckin' people are SO fuckin' STUPID!!!


Then after a foul-mouthed exchange between Neuroburger and Josey Wales, A Voice said this:

Josey,

Please tone it down or leave this thread. On it's surface this is about a man who had died. If this isn't true then so be it. But please try to be respectful of the idea behind the thread if not the posters in it.

I am asking this as a Moderator to the Board. I would also like you to PM me as soon as possible.

A Voice


To this Dingo took exception as follows:
I agree with your sentiments A Voice but this isn't a rule breaker as far I know. Maybe I'm missing something. Perhaps you were requesting as a moderator rather than demanding.

One of the functions open boards serve is to reveal what is behind the civilized mask with some posters. It is a very important function in my book.


A Voice explained to Dingo as follows:
Josey has managed to make it impossible for a moderator to contact him privately. Normally, That message would've been private. A request, not a threat, to please tone in down out of repect for the (probably) dead and other who want to talk about it.


I felt that Dingo was correct in his admonition and I chimed in with:
Here's the phrase that I have a problem with: "I am asking this as a Moderator...."

If she would have said: "I am asking this just as a fellow poster and not as a Moderator" I could see this just as an appeal for decency. However, the way she put it, it was definitively a threat.

Of course if this was really Sam's mother, Josey's remarks would be in poor taste. But, if it is just another poster's prank, then what? Josey has a right to disbelieve, or does he? If it were Tayken's mom would the "kid gloves" be applied?


A Voice replied to me:
It wasn't a threat. It was a request. Several posters have contacted me about the tone of the posts in this thread - as a moderator I felt I had to respond to those posters concerns. As JW has chosen not to recieve pm's my only alternative is to commicate with him publically.


I replied:
1. There is no rule about the "tone" used by a poster.

2. You should have known that there was no violation of the rules and, if indeed, you had complaints you should have informed the complainers that there is no violation of the rules for "tone."

3. You were wrong and you are wrong now when you say it wasn't a "threat." Of course it was. Just ask yourself, what would you have done if Josey told you to kiss off (as he should have)? Would you just have left the thread with no reprisal? I don't think so.


Think it over and I'm sure you'll realize that you overstepped your authority (or is it limitless).


My problem with A Voice in this case is that she was attempting to enforce civility as a moderator. She received complaints and “felt she had to respond!” She says that what she did was not a “threat” but, even her supporter in this argument (JTR) felt it implied that Josey Wale’s might be suspended if he didn’t change his ways.


I believe that A Voice handled this situation poorly

[Blaze Manly]

So what do you recommend? A military tribunal to decide if she has acted in a manner unbecoming an officer? A kangaroo court to determine how high she can jump? Perhaps she is always after your Lucky Charms. Why not round up some angry villagers with torches, and show up at her house on a Friday night?

I think the best course of action would be a silent protest. Why not protest by boycotting this board for a short period, say, perhaps, the rest of your natural life? I think that would really show everybody you're serious, and accomplish any goal you may or may not have set for this debate forum.

[A Voice]

The Sam Ayyam Thread

http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=52364&page=2

This is a case where A Voice attempts to intercede using her full Moderator powers with implied threats. Here is how it went:

In response to a remark by donni, Josey Wales said:



Then after a foul-mouthed exchange between Neuroburger and Josey Wales, A Voice said this:




To this Dingo took exception as follows:



A Voice explained to Dingo as follows:



I felt that Dingo was correct in his admonition and I chimed in with:



A Voice replied to me:



I replied:



My problem with A Voice in this case is that she was attempting to enforce civility as a moderator. She received complaints and “felt she had to respond!” She says that what she did was not a “threat” but, even her supporter in this argument (JTR) felt it implied that Josey Wale’s might be suspended if he didn’t change his ways.


I believe that A Voice handled this situation poorly

I appreciate your concern for the Board.

[Mr.88]

I appreciate your concern for the Board.

People REALLY hate you Voice..........some people.

I mean, harsh words get thrown around here all the live long day but something in you REALLY rubs people the wrong way..........and, believe me I know a little something about pissing folks off.

But day after day I marvel at the amount of vitriol thrown your way.

For the record, I don't feel that way at all............I mean, you're a wacky lib like the rest, but I certainly don't hate you. In fact on the occasions when we've had dealings as "mod to poster" I've found you to be more than fair.

And it can't be just the moderating....well maybe it can a lot of people hate Lib too.

I'm just curious.....any thoughts as to what it is? Just the job or something else?

[A Voice]

People REALLY hate you Voice..........some people.

I mean, harsh words get thrown around here all the live long day but something in you REALLY rubs people the wrong way..........and, believe me I know a little something about pissing folks off.

But day after day I marvel at the amount of vitriol thrown your way.

For the record, I don't feel that way at all............I mean, you're a wacky lib like the rest, but I certainly don't hate you. In fact on the occasions when we've had dealings as "mod to poster" I've found you to be more than fair.

And it can't be just the moderating....well maybe it can a lot of people hate Lib too.

I'm just curious.....any thoughts as to what it is? Just the job or something else?

It's just a handful of people and considering their character and reputation I am not all that impressed.

First off, that anyone wants to put so much effort into me is flattering really. One has gone completely insane because he is desperate for attention. One is just a straight up bully. Most of the others just follow the bully like brainless little lambs - they are really funny. I mean their following a guy who is picking on a girl to pick on her and nothing else.

Oh, I almost forgot what they all have in common, they are limp dicked weasels who resent any woman with the tiniest amount of power even in an internet backwater like this.

http://www.acuraworld.com/forums/images/smilies/fuming.gif

I mean, it couldn't possibly be my sweet personality. :p

aV

[Tim]

Moderator Philosophy 101

From A Voice as she sees her detractors:
One has gone completely insane because he is desperate for attention. One is just a straight up bully. Most of the others just follow the bully like brainless little lambs - they are really funny. I mean their following a guy who is picking on a girl to pick on her and nothing else.

Since she doesn't name names, I don't know if she is referring to me. However, I don't see the described traits in any of her detractors. How brazenly dumb must she be to think that anyone on this forum "is picking on a girl to pick on her and nothing else." Each time I have observed criticism of her moderating, the issue was defined and details were given.



From A Voice as she sees herself (From Post 19 on the Moderator Sign Up Thread:
Here's what I think we are.

We are not traffic cops, we are not judges, juries or executioners.

All the legal metaphors for what we do as Moderators are useless. We are not impartial, there is no way we could be; we know all the players too well. If a traffic cop pulls over a friend, he's probably going to let the guy off with a warning. If a case comes before a judge and he knows the defendant, that judge recuses himself.

What is a Moderator then? He is your neighborhood bartender - Sam.

Sam's got a nice cozy spot where people meet to have a few laughs, talk about issues, and play darts . Sam's got a lot of regulars and occasionally some tourists drop in and he hopes they'll stick around - new blood keeps the place from getting dull. Mostly people get along, but there have been some problems in the past so he's had to set down some rules.

Sam's got two regulars, Ricky and Lucy. They've been around for a while and he knows them well. They pay their bar bills on time so Sam's got no problem with their politics or whether they like the Colts or the Bears.

Ricky is a great guy. He's smart, funny, gracious, treats everyone with respect, he never even swears. People want to be around him and that is good for business. Then there's Lucy, she's funny, but disruptive. Lucy is always drinking too much and rattling cages and can be really loud and obnoxious. Sam's watched as tourists have walked into his bar, seen what Lucy was up to and walked right out again. Lucy keeps things lively and that is good, but sometimes she goes too far.

One night Ricky is at one end of the bar and tells a "Your Mamma" joke which is against the rules. At the other end of the bar Lucy (drunk again) tells the exact same joke. Do they get the same treatment?

Not always. Ricky who is always terrific, always polite, never any trouble at all gets a warning. Ricky apologizes to both Sam and the offended patron and life goes on.

Sam turns to Lucy and gives her a warning. Lucy jumps up on a table and says "Fuck off!" Lucy then gets her butt tossed out of the bar and is told not to come back for a couple of days and only if she can behave herself.

Is this "fair" treatment? That depends on your point of view. It is preferential to Ricky but hasn't he earned a little good faith by his behavior? Lucy is a pain in the neck and is actually bad for the bar. Shouldn't the well being of the business and the patrons who frequent it be considered?

Ultimately it isn't "fair", but it may be appropriate.

I don't like being the hall monitor - it often sucks out loud. But every once in a while I can talk someone down off a ledge and broker a fragile detente it's kinda nice. I want everyone to have a good time and that means that sometimes you have to tell someone to refrain from pissing in another patron's beer.

So A Voice is really “Sam the Bartender.” Does anyone else on this forum see a connection between a Moderator and a neighborhood bar tender? I certainly don’t.

Anybody else have any thoughts on this? I’ll be back later to add to this post but here’s how I answered the last few lines of her scribe.


Mod #5, with a tear of humility dripping from her eye but with her shoulders bravely squared says:

But every once in a while I can talk someone down off a ledge and broker a fragile detente it's kinda nice.

Please, please, please, dispense with the over dramatization. Do you read what you write before posting it? My God! How corny can you get?



Mod #5, with a magnanimous tone tells us, the little people::

I want everyone to have a good time and that means that sometimes you have to tell someone to refrain from pissing in another patron's beer.

And therein is the major problem with you. You visualize the moderator position as a "mother hen" watching out for her baby chicks. Who on this forum has asked you to 1) protect them from the mean old nasty posters or 2) keep them from breaking the rules with your soothing advice?

Not I - If someone picks on me - so be it. If I violate the rules - do your job and issue the proper discipline. Otherwise - bug off!

[Tayken]

It's just a handful of people and considering their character and reputation I am not all that impressed.

First off, that anyone wants to put so much effort into me is flattering really. One has gone completely insane because he is desperate for attention. One is just a straight up bully. Most of the others just follow the bully like brainless little lambs - they are really funny. I mean their following a guy who is picking on a girl to pick on her and nothing else.

Oh, I almost forgot what they all have in common, they are limp dicked weasels who resent any woman with the tiniest amount of power even in an internet backwater like this.

http://www.acuraworld.com/forums/images/smilies/fuming.gif

I mean, it couldn't possibly be my sweet personality. :p

aV

Limp dicked huh No. 5? The tiniest amount of power huh? And you wouldn't abuse that tiny bit of power in any way right?

[A Voice]

Moderator Philosophy 101

From A Voice as she sees her detractors:


Since she doesn't name names, I don't know if she is referring to me. However, I don't see the described traits in any of her detractors. How brazenly dumb must she be to think that anyone on this forum "is picking on a girl to pick on her and nothing else." Each time I have observed criticism of her moderating, the issue was defined and details were given.



From A Voice as she sees herself (From Post 19 on the Moderator Sign Up Thread:


So A Voice is really “Sam the Bartender.” Does anyone else on this forum see a connection between a Moderator and a neighborhood bar tender? I certainly don’t.

Anybody else have any thoughts on this? I’ll be back later to add to this post but here’s how I answered the last few lines of her scribe.


Mod #5, with a tear of humility dripping from her eye but with her shoulders bravely squared says:


Please, please, please, dispense with the over dramatization. Do you read what you write before posting it? My God! How corny can you get?



Mod #5, with a magnanimous tone tells us, the little people::


And therein is the major problem with you. You visualize the moderator position as a "mother hen" watching out for her baby chicks. Who on this forum has asked you to 1) protect them from the mean old nasty posters or 2) keep them from breaking the rules with your soothing advice?

Not I - If someone picks on me - so be it. If I violate the rules - do your job and issue the proper discipline. Otherwise - bug off!
If you cannot see the personal attacks in your own post Tim, I suggest that you read your own work a few times as well. For the record quite a few people do ask moderators to protect them from bullies. More often than not, if no rules have been broken I tell them to get a tougher skin if they are going to play here.

Don't like my writing style? I don't care and is irrelevent to the topic at hand.

Don't like my moderatng style? I don't care and is irrelevent to the topic at hand.

I keep getting accused of ABUSE of POWER. Bring it and be specific or go back to posting.

A Voice

[A Voice]

Limp dicked huh No. 5? The tiniest amount of power huh? And you wouldn't abuse that tiny bit of power in any way right?

I don't believe I ever have Tayken.

You do spend a great deal of time bullying people though. I wish you'd spend more time trying to post something/anything of value to a political discussion board instead of harassing the Liberal moderators for no damn reason.

You don't like me - I get it. But this need you feel to endlessly harass me for being a moderator is ridiculous and unacceptable.

Bring your best game against me as a poster and that is fine. Bring a legitimate and specific argument against me as a moderator I will be happy to consider your complaint as will the other moderators. What will not be tolerated is endless harassment for the simple sin of volunteering to moderate.

I have tried to discuss the events of the last month with you only to have ignore my very valid points and continue the abuse. As far as I am concerned that case is closed.

Now go and enjoy the forum.

[Tim]

Sam, the bartender says: More often than not, if no rules have been broken I tell then to get a tougher skin if you are going to play here.

Exactly my point. "More often than not?" What percentage would that be? As low as 51%? What about the other 49% of the time? If no rules have been broken why don't you tell the complainer to get a tougher skin 100% of the time?

Previously, in a discussion with me you cited the law of "double jeopardy." How about this law: Everything that is not specifically illegal is legal. Meaning, if no rules were broken, you ought to "butt out!"

If a poster comes to you and tells you that although I have not broken any rules, I've been mean to them and they ask you to intercede - and you come to me, you will be told to mind your own business. What will you do then?

Suspend me?

Ban me?

What will you do?





PS: You also said: If you cannot see the personal attacks in your own post Tim, I suggest that you read your own work a few times as well.

There were no "personal attacks" in my post. What you received was well deserved sarcasm. Perhaps you can't tell them apart.

[Tayken]

I don't believe I ever have Tayken.

You do spend a great deal of time bullying people though. I wish you'd spend more time trying to post something/anything of value to a political discussion board instead of harassing the Liberal moderators for no damn reason.

You don't like me - I get it. But this need you feel to endlessly harass me for being a moderator is ridiculous and unacceptable.

Bring your best game against me as a poster and that is fine. Bring a legitimate and specific argument against me as a moderator I will be happy to consider your complaint as will the other moderators. What will not be tolerated is endless harassment for the simple sin of volunteering to moderate.

I have tried to discuss the events of the last month with you only to have ignore my very valid points and continue the abuse. As far as I am concerned that case is closed.

Now go and enjoy the forum.


No. I'm not through here. You have liberals and conservatives who don't think you've done a very good job. If you had any balls, you'd step down and save Lib from the wringer you've put him through. You are very uneven in your moderating, and you over moderate. You are flippant to requests in PM's to you, and I still believe you broke the rules when you didn't ask for my permission to post the PM to me. Now you call us "limp dicked" and that we can't stand women with one bit of power. You need to take a very good look in the mirror at yourself.

[A Voice]

Sam, the bartender says:

Exactly my point. "More often than not?" What percentage would that be? As low as 51%? What about the other 49% of the time? If no rules have been broken why don't you tell the complainer to get a tougher skin 100% of the time?

Previously, in a discussion with me you cited the law of "double jeopardy." How about this law: Everything that is not specifically illegal is legal. Meaning, if no rules were broken, you ought to "butt out!"

If a poster comes to you and tells you that although I have not broken any rules, I've been mean to them and they ask you to intercede - and you come to me, you will be told to mind your own business. What will you do then?

Suspend me?

Ban me?

What will you do?





PS: You also said:

There were no "personal attacks" in my post. What you received was well deserved sarcasm. Perhaps you can't tell them apart.
In my opinion, you are behaving like a child. Human interactions are not perfect and this board is very human. We make the best calls we can under each specific circumstance.

For example:
Poster A says "Your mother is ugly" to someone whose mother recently died.

Poster B says: "GO FUCK YOU WHORE MOTHER UP THE ASS MAGGOT, AND LET YOU CUNT DADDY WATCH.." (actual quote from the board)

Poster B has clearly violated the no family rule. Poster A, well, not so much, but the recipient is feeling very wronged.

If poster A just made a slip I'd tell the offended person to thoughen up. If poster A has discovered that the offended poster has a sore spot and continues to go after the guy again and again on the same issue, I'll send the guy a pm saying "Can you please lighten up a little?"

Poster A will likely get a request to edit the post and apologise or spend a few days off.

What I am not going to do is go over every possible permutation of every rule we have so it fits into your "even steven" little world.

[Mister B]

No. I'm not through here. You have liberals and conservatives who don't think you've done a very good job. If you had any balls, you'd step down and save Lib from the wringer you've put him through. You are very uneven in your moderating, and you over moderate. You are flippant to requests in PM's to you, and I still believe you broke the rules when you didn't ask for my permission to post the PM to me. Now you call us "limp dicked" and that we can't stand women with one bit of power. You need to take a very good look in the mirror at yourself.

God forbid I find myself agreeing with tayken, Karen -

But playing the "gender card" here is bullshit, and you know it.

And before you start in on me in that vein -

I'll remind you that my first mate is a woman and also the youngest member of my crew.

Two tears ago I also made her president of my remodeling company.

It seems - somehow - that she was the most qualified person for the job(s).

[Tim]

Sam, the bartender says (in error)
For example:
Poster A says "Your mother is ugly" to someone whose mother recently died.

Poster B says: "GO FUCK YOU WHORE MOTHER UP THE ASS MAGGOT, AND LET YOU CUNT DADDY WATCH.." (actual quote from the board)

Poster B has clearly violated the no family rule. Poster A, well, not so much, but the recipient is feeling very wronged.


Here’s the rule:
1.Threatening or wishing harm against other posters or their families, insulting or defaming a poster's family members or referring to them unacceptably to the poster, or threatening or plotting against public figures, are not permitted.


Poster A, well, not so much”? No wonder you’re having such a difficult time – you can’t understand the rules!

Clearly, Poster A has “insulted or defamed a poster’s family” no matter if she had recently died or was in excellent health and no matter if the recipient is feeling very wronged.

You are inept.

[A Voice]

No. I'm not through here. You have liberals and conservatives who don't think you've done a very good job. If you had any balls, you'd step down and save Lib from the wringer you've put him through. You are very uneven in your moderating, and you over moderate. You are flippant to requests in PM's to you, and I still believe you broke the rules when you didn't ask for my permission to post the PM to me. Now you call us "limp dicked" and that we can't stand women with one bit of power. You need to take a very good look in the mirror at yourself.

Actually, Tayken, I have a lot more liberals and conservatives that think I am doing just great.

I have offered up my resignation to Lib a few times in the past month and yet I am still here.

I posted that particular pm because you brought the issue up publically and misrepresented the situation. Rather than trying to defend myself against your lie I posted the pm the in question for all to see. Go ahead and find the rule that claims I cannot do this.

I will be flippant in pm's that are sent to me for the sole purpose of harassing me.

To recap:
You had been harassing me since I got the moderator position:

Thread started by you: A Voice is now a moderator?
You just made me throw up my dinner.

Conclusion: without having done any moderating you decided I wasn't worthy of the gig.

Then many stupid little digs at me about being #5 which I laughed at and ignored.

Then the pm harassment began.

The most telling was the one you were so upset that I posted. This is probably because it shows what a thug you are. It was titled "Why don't you show some leadership?" in the pm you said "and do something about Kuni's Post. We can all see what he's trying to do." You sent this message to me and no one else. If you had such little faith in my abilities - clearly shown by your previous posts and pm's - why ask me alone to handle the situation? You could've asked Mike, Madrsefield or Lib, why didn't you?

I responded that Kuni's poll could be about lot of posters and technically didn't violate any rules. I cc'd the pm to MIKE who agreed with me completely and for the same reason.

Then you started an attack thread against me and in it stated:
"Nah. When Kuni did the indirect attack poll on me and she gave me a a very snotty and insincere answer when I PM'd her, I realized she isn't very worthy of my respect or of being a moderator for this board."

Notice you did not take Mike to task for saying the same thing I did. This is because you are bullying me and not actually making a complaint about Moderator decisions.

Then you got your ass banned and rightly so.

When you came back you got really repugnant. And was banned again and rightly so.

You can try to spend more time harassing Moderators, but you may find that the revised rules will leave you very few places to go in that regard.

I accepted a long time ago that you are never going to be a nice, civilized person here. Now you need to accept this: I am not apologizing to you as I have done nothing wrong. I am not leaving either. So I suggest you get on with your life.

[A Voice]

Sam, the bartender says (in error)



Here’s the rule:
1.Threatening or wishing harm against other posters or their families, insulting or defaming a poster's family members or referring to them unacceptably to the poster, or threatening or plotting against public figures, are not permitted.


Poster A, well, not so much”? No wonder you’re having such a difficult time – you can’t understand the rules!

Clearly, Poster A has “insulted or defamed a poster’s family” no matter if she had recently died or was in excellent health and no matter if the recipient is feeling very wronged.

You are inept.
So you are accusing me of undermoderating in this hypothetical situation? I believe the thread and most of the complaints are about my overmoderating.

Are you also saying that the Poster A & B should be treated the same?

[Krypto]

Your use of the term of a moderator is so VERY skewed that I had to look up the term to be sure...
and it certainly desribes one as a GOVENOR...
I do not know how many have been banned but I have certainly been warned myself...
I feel GOVERNED...
so I guess if this is your forum VOICE then so be it...
Limp dick? would that be considered debasing? If you choose to be on high ground I confidently suggest you stay there. You come to the dirt and we shall "school" you. Be the moderator and let us be children as we must. You want to "bring it" please be careful what you ask for or shall we be concerned with being banned???
If not then I would tell you that being a girl has nothing to do with your vapid oversensitive issues to our topics...well, maybe it does??

[Tim]

Sam: When you said: "Poster B has clearly violated the no family rule. Poster A, well, not so much, but the recipient is feeling very wronged." You were wrong. Both A & B "clearly" violated the "no family rule."

What you do with the violators is up to the seriousness of the violation and their history - all I'm saying is you mistated the fact that they both clearly violated the rule.

My hypothetical described no violation of the rules - only a poster with hurt feelings. You seem to have diffficulty understanding that.

The hypothetical is: What are you going to do when a poster comes to you after I have hurt their feelings yet have not violated the rules. And, most importantly, what will you do when you tell me to apologize and I tell you to mind your own business?

Will you suspend me?

Will you ban me?

[A Voice]

Your use of the term of a moderator is so VERY skewed that I had to look up the term to be sure...
and it certainly desribes one as a GOVENOR...
I do not know how many have been banned but I have certainly been warned myself...
I feel GOVERNED...
so I guess if this is your forum VOICE then so be it...
Limp dick? would that be considered debasing? If you choose to be on high ground I confidently suggest you stay there. You come to the dirt and we shall "school" you. Be the moderator and let us be children as we must. You want to "bring it" please be careful what you ask for or shall we be concerned with being banned???
If not then I would tell you that being a girl has nothing to do with your vapid oversensitive issues to our topics...well, maybe it does??

Is that a threat Krypto, or should I call you Josey Wales?

I was waiting for you to get off your Josey ban before I dealt with this, but you couldn't resist using your second log in to jump on board could you?

You have been posting using multiple log ins which is againt the rules. As neither of your personalities will accept pm's I have no choice but conduct this business in public. Please inform me which identitfication you wish to continue to use. The extra personality will be deleted. You will get a week off for using multiple ID'S.

Does that work for everyone? Is this in keeping with the rules? Am I undermoderating or overmoderating?

A Voice

[A Voice]

Sam: When you said: "Poster B has clearly violated the no family rule. Poster A, well, not so much, but the recipient is feeling very wronged." You were wrong. Both A & B "clearly" violated the "no family rule."

What you do with the violators is up to the seriousness of the violation and their history - all I'm saying is you mistated the fact that they both clearly violated the rule.

My hypothetical described no violation of the rules - only a poster with hurt feelings. You seem to have diffficulty understanding that.

The hypothetical is: What are you going to do when a poster comes to you after I have hurt their feelings yet have not violated the rules. And, most importantly, what will you do when you tell me to apologize and I tell you to mind your own business?

Will you suspend me?

Will you ban me?
WTF?

[Tim]

Sam, the bartender, emotes: Does that work for everyone? Is this in keeping with the rules? Am I undermoderating or overmoderating?

A Voice

Seems to me that you're overovulating.

[Krypto]

Is that a threat Krypto, or should I call you Josey Wales?

I was waiting for you to get off your Josey ban before I dealt with this, but you couldn't resist using your second log in to jump on board could you?

You have been posting using multiple log ins which is againt the rules. As neither of your personalities will accept pm's I have no choice but conduct this business in public. Please inform me which identitfication you wish to continue to use. The extra personality will be deleted. You will get a week off for using multiple ID'S.

Does that work for everyone? Is this in keeping with the rules? Am I undermoderating or overmoderating?

A Voice

Well, I am offended that you see me somehow as breaking a rule and I assure you I AM NOT A COWBOY...YOU delete my personality and it will be purely vindictive behavior. I am not Josey and you WILL NOT BAN ME. Your over righteousness as what you say is so incoherently false that you should be ashsamed of yourself! I read the rules VOICE...now back up your pathetic paranoid accusations with fact and I will meet you with every opportunity. If you will,is it not impossible to log in as two seperate identities at once right?? well, look in your logs and THEN APOLOGIZE TO ME...For the record I think you are picking on me because I said you were vapid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will wait for my apology!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hey tell Lefty I said Hello, or is he busy making you dinner??

[Blaze Manly]

I always wondered why "Krypto" seemd to be such a big fan of "Josey Wales." I didn't see how that was possible. Now I do. Valuable insight has been gained, but I won't be able to sleep without hearing Tim's take on it.

Or Mister B's, for that matter.

[Krypto]

GAWD Damm
I am NOT Josey!! Yes that is one funny fucker but PLLLEAASEE give me life...have I not said anything coherent enough to warrent my own namesake???
Geesh!
Why am I defending myself all of a sudden?
Fuck you I am here to stay and I am not dead nor another person....

[Krypto]

wait a minute...I just read more closely
Why IS Josey banned?
I wondered why he hadnt attacked you yet...nd I doubt that guy wouldve called you vapid...but it FITS

[Blaze Manly]

GAWD Damm
I am NOT Josey!! Yes that is one funny fucker but PLLLEAASEE give me life...have I not said anything coherent enough to warrent my own namesake???
Geesh!
Why am I defending myself all of a sudden?
Fuck you I am here to stay and I am not dead nor another person....

You're a nutjob.

A pretty serious one, too. Thank God you're harmless.

[A Voice]

Well, I am offended that you see me somehow as breaking a rule and I assure you I AM NOT A COWBOY...YOU delete my personality and it will be purely vindictive behavior. I am not Josey and you WILL NOT BAN ME. Your over righteousness as what you say is so incoherently false that you should be ashsamed of yourself! I read the rules VOICE...now back up your pathetic paranoid accusations with fact and I will meet you with every opportunity. If you will,is it not impossible to log in as two seperate identities at once right?? well, look in your logs and THEN APOLOGIZE TO ME...For the record I think you are picking on me because I said you were vapid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will wait for my apology!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hey tell Lefty I said Hello, or is he busy making you dinner??

Lefty . . . again, wtf?

Here's my proof: I blurred the IP address to protect your privacy.
http://www.allihave.org/images/krypto.jpg

Here's how it is going to go down. I will inform the other Mods of this issue and give them the data they need to find the same IP address using the forum software. You are going to choose which log-in you wish to keep.

If you break any more rules or refuse to choose a log in in the next 24hrs, Krypto will be deleted and Josey will get one week off.

A Voice

[Mister B]

So, Karen -

You ADMIT that you suspect Josey of being Krypto.

What are you going to do about it?

Or is it only silly and unfounded when I suggest multiple personality posting?

You're a fraud.

Okay, you did something.

I stand corrected.

[Blaze Manly]

So, Karen -

You ADMIT that you suspect Josey of being Krypto.

What are you going to do about it?

Or is it only silly and unfounded when I suggest multiple personality posting?

You're a fraud.

Mister B:

We all realize how pathetic your tiny bit of knowledge about computers is, so we try not to laugh at you too much, but here is something you may want to try your best to wrap your mind around:

The moderators can see the IP#'s. So they don't just guess who's posting as who, as you do. They can be fooled via the following methods:

1. One login from home, one login from work. This is foolproof. If you have never logged in as "Mister B" from your place of business, you can log in as "Mister C" from there, and they will never know. It is absolutely foolproof.

2. One login from one computer at home on one IP provider, another login from another computer at home on a DIFFERENT IP provider. This is also foolproof, for the most part. They'll probably strongly suspect it's you, but they won't really care. After all, if you've got the dedication to false logins to spend the extra money, who are they to put out your tiny fire?

3. Proxy servers. This method is flawed. Proxy servers have become less reliable in recent years, and are now easily recognized, and have a tendency to suddenly dump you, which means you'll be posting from your own IP# without realizing it.

I hope this little lesson has been valuable to you. The bottom line is, you suspect posters who have posted from disparate IP#'s on THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COUNTRY FROM ONE ANOTHER of being the same person. Say, for example "Liberty Now" and "Fair & Balanced Who Cares?" One is in the midwest, one is on the coast. There is no reason to assume either of them are spending the time, money and effort on re-routing themselves to this extent for the rather pointless pursuit of fooling an old man from Oregon who is barely computer literate, nevermind the embattled moderators of this, or any forum.

But I will give you this:

Sometimes it is kind of funny when you pull this routine, especially when you spice it up by talking about how great your life is.

(I'm sure it is great for you, but for others, it might be boring, or even pointless)

We all have our own unique, individual perspective, and thing you value might mean nothing to me, and vice versa. You should consider the benefits you could gain from this uniqueness, instead of whining all the time.

[A Voice]

Sam, the bartender, emotes:

Seems to me that you're overovulating.

Thus proving my point.

Thank you and good night.

[A Voice]

Blaze,

You don't need to tell him all that - he already knows. :cool:

[Mister B]

Mister B:

We all realize how pathetic your tiny bit of knowledge about computers is, so we try not to laugh at you too much, but here is something you may want to try your best to wrap your mind around:

The moderators can see the IP#'s. So they don't just guess who's posting as who, as you do. They can be fooled via the following methods:

1. One login from home, one login from work. This is foolproof. If you have never logged in as "Mister B" from your place of business, you can log in as "Mister C" from there, and they will never know. It is absolutely foolproof.

2. One login from one computer at home on one IP provider, another login from another computer at home on a DIFFERENT IP provider. This is also foolproof, for the most part. They'll probably strongly suspect it's you, but they won't really care. After all, if you've got the dedication to false logins to spend the extra money, who are they to put out your tiny fire?

3. Proxy servers. This method is flawed. Proxy servers have become less reliable in recent years, and are now easily recognized, and have a tendency to suddenly dump you, which means you'll be posting from your own IP# without realizing it.

I hope this little lesson has been valuable to you. The bottom line is, you suspect posters who have posted from disparate IP#'s on THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COUNTRY FROM ONE ANOTHER of being the same person. Say, for example "Liberty Now" and "Fair & Balanced Who Cares?" One is in the midwest, one is on the coast. There is no reason to assume either of them are spending the time, money and effort on re-routing themselves to this extent for the rather pointless pursuit of fooling an old man from Oregon who is barely computer literate, nevermind the embattled moderators of this, or any forum.

But I will give you this:

Sometimes it is kind of funny when you pull this routine, especially when you spice it up by talking about how great your life is.

(I'm sure it is great for you, but for others, it might be boring, or even pointless)

We all have our own unique, individual perspective, and thing you value might mean nothing to me, and vice versa. You should consider the benefits you could gain from this uniqueness, instead of whining all the time.

Gee, "Blaze" -

What a waste of time for you -

I have NO interest in posting as anybody but me.

Nice to know you're an expert on the subject.

Oh - btw - you comment about "how great my life is" is EXACTLY the one you and Liberty - and a few others (golly!) use. Imagine that.

Your protestations of innocence bore me.

And while you may be great on a computer, jerkoff -


I'm not sorry that my life is so much more rewarding, fullfilling and self-expressive than yours. I'm not sorry my life actually makes a difference in the quality of the lives of others -


And your life is lived here.



Good night.

[Krypto]

Voice I cannot dispute your intricate knowledge of IPs as I cannot see what is there. But I am telling you that I am not Josey. Ill tell ya what...delete me and Ill come back as "Voice hater"...then you will be SURE it isnt the cowboy...all the same to me...But I assure you I will be back as the name and when I am back Id like to focus more on the issues than your petty behavior...good luck you vapid bitch...let me know if you ARE SURE because I cant wait to prove you wrong!

[Blaze Manly]

Voice I cannot dispute your intricate knowledge of IPs as I cannot see what is there. But I am telling you that I am not Josey. Ill tell ya what...delete me and Ill come back as "Voice hater"...then you will be SURE it isnt the cowboy...all the same to me...But I assure you I will be back as the name and when I am back Id like to focus more on the issues than your petty behavior...good luck you vapid bitch...let me know if you ARE SURE because I cant wait to prove you wrong!

Do you know what would make your rampant schizophrenia less funny, and less obvious? If you didn't revert to the EXACT same writing style when provoked.

Here's a little clue for you:

"...good luck" is a dead giveaway. "You" and "Josey" have used that exact phrase, (usually followed by a job suggestion, or mention of a lake of fire) hundreds upon hundreds of times.

You're a nutter.

An obvious nutter.

And as you and I both know, you're a major fucking coward, too. I own your sorry little skanky ass.

Oh, and hey ...good luck on that "convincing people you're a soldier" thing, by the way. We all know you were either a contractor, or in some type of support role, like potato peeler, or cock-greaser when you were in Iraq.

[Josey Wales]

Do you know what would make your rampant schizophrenia less funny, and less obvious? If you didn't revert to the EXACT same writing style when provoked.

Here's a little clue for you:

"...good luck" is a dead giveaway. "You" and "Josey" have used that exact phrase, (usually followed by a job suggestion, or mention of a lake of fire) hundreds upon hundreds of times.

You're a nutter.

An obvious nutter.

And as you and I both know, you're a major fucking coward, too. I own your sorry little skanky ass.

Oh, and hey ...good luck on that "convincing people you're a soldier" thing, by the way. We all know you were either a contractor, or in some type of support role, like potato peeler, or cock-greaser when you were in Iraq.

Hey Arthur,
What's a fuckstick like you doing calling yourself manly? No matter how often you change your name you are still gonna be the forum fuckboy, don't you realize that, dickhead?
The moderators - not the psychotic bitch - have the tools to determine if I am indeed Krypto but I really don't give a tinker's fuck about your "opinion". The forum fuckboy is not allowed to have "opinions". Your job here is to stand by in case I need you to be the object of ridicule for everyone's amusement - and you're GREAT at that, by the way.
I don't need you right now because you have already shown everybody what a total fuckin' idiot you are so run down to the 7 - 11 and pick me up a pack of smokes and a six pack of Olympia. This time I'll be expecting my change back you little fuckin' bitch!! Get going!!

[dewey189]

run down to the 7 - 11 and pick me up a pack of smokes and a six pack of Olympia. Olympia? I didn't even know you could still buy that nasty stuff.

[Josey Wales]

Actually, you can't but I thought that very fact would keep that blithering idiot busy for a couple of days before he figured that out.

[Josey Wales]

Lefty . . . again, wtf?

Here's my proof: I blurred the IP address to protect your privacy.
http://www.allihave.org/images/krypto.jpg

Here's how it is going to go down. I will inform the other Mods of this issue and give them the data they need to find the same IP address using the forum software. You are going to choose which log-in you wish to keep.

If you break any more rules or refuse to choose a log in in the next 24hrs, Krypto will be deleted and Josey will get one week off.

A Voice

Hey BA-by! How's it going?

Don't you feel a little ridiculous now, darlin'?

You blurred out your 'proof'! What exactly DID you prove anyway?

You are a PSYCHO!

This should be a simple matter that even YOU can figure out. Well, maybe not after all....

Did you see the Domain, STUPID???? I can make it out through your 'blurring'.

[Kuni]

Hey BA-by! How's it going?

Don't you feel a little ridiculous now, darlin'?

You blurred out your 'proof'! What exactly DID you prove anyway?

You are a PSYCHO!

This should be a simple matter that even YOU can figure out. Well, maybe not after all....

Did you see the Domain, STUPID???? I can make it out through your 'blurring'.Dude; she has a shit load more credibility that you do. Have you actually ever posted anything that is true?

[Josey Wales]

Dude; she has a shit load more credibility that you do. Have you actually ever posted anything that is true?


Hey KUNT!

the domain and IP she has "discovered" is used by millions of people ALL OVER THE WORLD!!!

If she had half a brain she would trace route where the posters are posting from on a day to day basis.
Apparently Lib can even trace to the city!

How fuckin' ridiculous!!

[Kuni]

Hey KUNT!

the domain and IP she has "discovered" is used by millions of people ALL OVER THE WORLD!!!And how would you know that? She did blur out your IP to protect you. And IP's are usually 'Static' on high speed connections (Till you reset and request another, but even then they usually come back the same). And Dial-up IP's to the modem pool are all within a certain range.

Was that a confession that slipped out?

[Josey Wales]

And how would you know that? She did blur out your IP to protect you.

Was that a confession that slipped out?

Hey stupid....look closely you can make it out!. And I know where I registered from!

[Kuni]

Hey stupid....look closely you can make it out!. And I know where I registered from!And? Of course you are not going to come clean. So your point is what again?

She may be wrong; but I’ll wait for Lib to tell us.

[Josey Wales]

And? Of course you are not going to come clean. So your point is what again?

She may be wrong; but I’ll wait for Lib to tell us.

I got nuthin' to prove to the likes of you, KUNT!
I agree, Lib will know what "my point" is.
The fact of the matter is that that Psychotic bitch has threatened me with ANOTHER ban and will delete another poster based on "a hunch"!
All Lib needs to do is follow the routes!

[Blaze Manly]

"Josie" and "Krypto" post in the exact same writing style, right down to beginning a lot of sentences with "...good luck" written exactly like that.

And "Krypto" is a BIG FAN of "Josie."

Oh, and they both have a hard-on for me.

Plus, not only do their IP#'s coincide, but for some reason, "Josie" has inside information about "Krypto's" IP.

I'll let you be the judge.

[dewey189]

Actually, you can't but I thought that very fact would keep that blithering idiot busy for a couple of days before he figured that out.Oh...ok. I wondered about that. For a minute there I thought there was a clandestine Olympia brewing operation where you lived, and I thought to myself...WHY???

[Josey Wales]

"Josie" and "Krypto" post in the exact same writing style, right down to beginning a lot of sentences with "...good luck" written exactly like that.

And "Krypto" is a BIG FAN of "Josie."

Oh, and they both have a hard-on for me.

Plus, not only do their IP#'s coincide, but for some reason, "Josie" has inside information about "Krypto's" IP.

I'll let you be the judge.
You're gonna LET others be the judge?
What a fuckin' pompous ass you are, Arthur, you are merely the forum fuckboy around here!
I doubt ANYBODY gives a tinker's fuck about a septic tank "professional" from Ft. Wayne Indi-FUCKIN'-ana, so don't flatter yourself, fuckstick! I'm sure alot of your late night alley encounters have a "hard-on" for you, but I assure you I don't!

Where are my smokes and Olympia, fuckboy????

[Krypto]

Do you know what would make your rampant schizophrenia less funny, and less obvious? If you didn't revert to the EXACT same writing style when provoked.

Here's a little clue for you:

"...good luck" is a dead giveaway. "You" and "Josey" have used that exact phrase, (usually followed by a job suggestion, or mention of a lake of fire) hundreds upon hundreds of times.

You're a nutter.

An obvious nutter.

And as you and I both know, you're a major fucking coward, too. I own your sorry little skanky ass.

Oh, and hey ...good luck on that "convincing people you're a soldier" thing, by the way. We all know you were either a contractor, or in some type of support role, like potato peeler, or cock-greaser when you were in Iraq.

Hey Genius,
Reverting to a phrase wow, sherlock the CIA and your fucking worthless party could sure use your honing skills...what a fucking idoit...name tha challenge stupid and I will oblige just to see you eat your words!
name it...
oh and should I use fuckstick? yeah, I like it...even if it was coined by Josey...
I will give you one clue though you stupid fucking lamebrain...I too have seen the desert...
a Hard one for you Manly? wouldnt it be wasted?? hahhaa
I have a constant hard on UNTIL you post you Einstein wanna be....
Fuck you

[A Voice]

Hey BA-by! How's it going?

Don't you feel a little ridiculous now, darlin'?

You blurred out your 'proof'! What exactly DID you prove anyway?

You are a PSYCHO!

This should be a simple matter that even YOU can figure out. Well, maybe not after all....

Did you see the Domain, STUPID???? I can make it out through your 'blurring'.

I checked the domain and did the legwork - it is clear from the image I posted that you and Krypto are posting from the same place. I am not going to post on a public board a poster's IP even if they beg me to.

I've given you plenty of time to explain the situation calmly and rationally. Instead of assisting in your own defense you just hollar and moan and call names.

Krypto will be permenently banned and Josey will get seven days off. Starting immediately.

A Voice

[Hunter Rose]

Oh, so the issue is fucking ‘authority’.

Idiots.

Hey Arthur,
What's a fuckstick like you doing calling yourself manly? No matter how often you change your name you are still gonna be the forum fuckboy, don't you realize that, dickhead?
The moderators - not the psychotic bitch - have the tools to determine if I am indeed Krypto but I really don't give a tinker's fuck about your "opinion". The forum fuckboy is not allowed to have "opinions". Your job here is to stand by in case I need you to be the object of ridicule for everyone's amusement - and you're GREAT at that, by the way.
I don't need you right now because you have already shown everybody what a total fuckin' idiot you are so run down to the 7 - 11 and pick me up a pack of smokes and a six pack of Olympia. This time I'll be expecting my change back you little fuckin' bitch!! Get going!!

Wow, Mr. Diplomacy on the job...

Tim, I read your 'proof' that A Voice 'overstepped' bounds as a moderator.

Before I speak to that, I can tell you that A Voice has most certainly taken issue with aspects of my posting.
A Voice has civilly PM'd me over whatever issue was apparently beyond bounds.

I disagreed.

I even pm'd a copy of the pertinent rules along with my, as usual, seamless rationale for what I did and why there was no reason it should be held up as an infraction.

Even so, the requests were not unreasonable, so I adjusted where necessary.

In one case, a post of mine was locked and those who took exception to my arguments were all too eager to point out that having my post locked somehow discredited my position.
Of course when their posts are locked, they cry foul.

Tim, the example you’ve cited deals with a matter of respect and decorum over an issue which is both serious and deserving of consideration. It is not an easy call to make when it appears that someone is directly or indirectly disparaging the deceased out of nothing more than uncertainty and you are in a position to introduce a modicum of respect to what many may find to be a sensitive issue.

While A Voice may not have had the right or authority to delete posts construed as particularly offensive regarding a very sensitive matter, she most certainly had the right to request a modicum of respect after having been petitioned by others to ‘do’ something.

To say that any kind of request is ‘over-moderation’ is ‘hyper-sensitive’.

I’ve seen A Voice to be rough around the edges yet, but if this is the sort of ‘over-moderation’ everyone about this place is complaining about, then it’s obviously just whining.

[dewey189]

...but if this is the sort of ‘over-moderation’ everyone about this place is complaining about, then it’s obviously just whining.Oh there's an awful lot of that lately.

[Tayken]

Oh there's an awful lot of that lately.

Funny. I wonder how this board ever existed before No. 5 became a moderator?