Hitler

[Mark]

I don't understand why anybody feels the need to cherry-pick the "good" things that Hitler did. I'm sure Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot (and Ghengis fucking Kahn) and others have all done "good" things in their lives. But, the levels of evil and horror wrought by these diabolical men completely bury any analysis of the "good." As far as I am concerned, the "good" things were strictly done for their own benefit, whether politically, militarily or just personal.

Hitler started WWII. Hitler murdered (or ordered) innocent people (women and children included). I don't care if it was 6,000,000 Jews or 500,000. These numbers mean nothing except that the man deserves complete and total condemnation. You all know I have strenuously opposed equating the BA to the Nazi's and I always will. There is no comparison and invoking the Nazi's is just political hyperbole intent on one thing: to regain political power.

If you want to say that Sexy or Bertrand really don't mean "kill all the Jews," then I will have to respectfully disagree because it is a play on words. Their comments dance around the obvious. They are lawyering their feelings on the matter.

Hitler was evil. Period.

[mickey]

He was efficiently evil.

[Mark]

I personally think that many of the posters who object to Israel's presence, tactics and political power make good points. The problem is they go too far. When you start talking Hitler (in the vein that "he had it right" or something along those lines), then you have marginalized yourself. Maybe that's what they want. Maybe they want to be seen as so intellectual that they can see things the rest of us cannot.

I may not be the most informed poster on the forum, but my opinion is that the Hitler references need to be put to bed.

[dewey189]

I personally think that many of the posters who object to Israel's presence, tactics and political power make good points. The problem is they go too far. When you start talking Hitler (in the vein that "he had it right" or something along those lines), then you have marginalized yourself. Maybe that's what they want. Maybe they want to be seen as so intellectual that they can see things the rest of us cannot.

I may not be the most informed poster on the forum, but my opinion is that the Hitler references need to be put to bed.I agree.

[Mark]

I agree.

I think we all miss many important points because of hard feelings towards one another...

[a-Citisen]

Concur also

A Hitler was not the problem in the same way that the alcoholic -w- is not the problem. A Hitler was financied into power for the very deeds far too many think he thunk-up all by his lonesome. The evil things now being executed throughout the ME is not of the mindwork of -w-, it is that of others. It is those "others" who must be brought to light.

[mickey]

All this being said, I do equate Bush's use of 9/11 to Hitler's use of the Reichstag Fire. Is that comparison marginalizing?

[Mark]

Concur also

A Hitler was not the problem in the same way that the alcoholic -w- is not the problem. A Hitler was financied into power for the very deeds far too many think he thunk-up all by his lonesome. The evil things now being executed throughout the ME is not of the mindwork of -w-, it is that of others. It is those "others" who must be brought to light.

Sure, the ME problems all pre-date Bush. Truman recognized Israel 20 minutes after they declared themselves to be a state. Britain was lobbied long ago to produce the Balfour Statement. Britain was intimidated by Jewish terrorists in the late 40's and I think this had a hand in them throwing in the towel. Every American administration (Democrat and Republicans) have supported Israel. I know it. You know it.

But, Hitler was bad. Period.

[Mark]

All this being said, I do equate Bush's use of 9/11 to Hitler's use of the Reichstag Fire. Is that comparison marginalizing?

Who started the fire? And no, it wasn't Billy Joel.

[mickey]

Who started the fire? And no, it wasn't Billy Joel.I don't think it was ever clear who started the fire. It wasn't who started it that mattered, it's how Hitler used it to consolidate power by scaring the people into thinking that there was a threat to their existence and he and his party were the only ones capable of protecting them."We can go to the country on this issue because they trust the Republican Party to do a better job of protecting and strengthening America's military might and thereby protecting America," he said at the time. Karl Rove, January 2002

[a-Citisen]

WTC Hitler

One of the really, really consuming images of both in the minds of whoever, seems to be the sheer fantasy of what happened. The human mind finds it easier to see and explain such fantastic event in terma as simple as can be made. The WTC was done by "terrorists" simple word association, its made even simpler by calling it the 911 thing.

A.Hitler well, "he" killed 6 million jews, with that accounting further questions are not needed.

If only the human being were really and truely that simple. But, a human is not and all humans are clearly not because of all that they- individual humans, do that make them into human-beings.

[Mark]

I don't think it was ever clear who started the fire. It wasn't who started it that mattered, it's how Hitler used it to consolidate power by scaring the people into thinking that there was a threat to their existence and he and his party were the only ones capable of protecting them. Karl Rove, January 2002

Look, I think you can get a lot of mileage just quoting Bush et al's statements prior to the Iraqi War. When you bring up Hitler, you lose. People just don't want to go there. I heard and have read all the comments about where the WMD were and the quantities. He should have lost the election on that point alone. He should have been fired by the American people. But, Rove has a point and I believe the Democrats gave him that point. When you bring up Hitler and micro-analyze things, you lose. The American people want to be patriotic and they just want to win. Bertrand, in all his glory, is so far over their head (way too nuanced) that it hurts the cause. I just don't see the need to attack like wild dogs over things that will never resonate with the American public.

Bush is not rounding up people and sending them away to concentration camps. Barney Frank even alluded to this in a speech recently (mind you, he was not complementing Bush as he was very concerned about how the BA is circumventing the Constitution with the signing order, but he did say that our freedoms are intact). We need to be clear on the threats to our country and the level of that threat.

[Gerry]

I don't understand why anybody feels the need to cherry-pick the "good" things that Hitler did. I'm sure Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot (and Ghengis fucking Kahn) and others have all done "good" things in their lives. But, the levels of evil and horror wrought by these diabolical men completely bury any analysis of the "good." As far as I am concerned, the "good" things were strictly done for their own benefit, whether politically, militarily or just personal.

Hitler started WWII. Hitler murdered (or ordered) innocent people (women and children included). I don't care if it was 6,000,000 Jews or 500,000. These numbers mean nothing except that the man deserves complete and total condemnation. You all know I have strenuously opposed equating the BA to the Nazi's and I always will. There is no comparison and invoking the Nazi's is just political hyperbole intent on one thing: to regain political power.

If you want to say that Sexy or Bertrand really don't mean "kill all the Jews," then I will have to respectfully disagree because it is a play on words. Their comments dance around the obvious. They are lawyering their feelings on the matter.

Hitler was evil. Period.

This thread is as surely a diversion of what is currently taking place in the M.E. at the hands of the Israelis as it is to deny that Hitler created a holocaust. I have not seen anyone claiming anywhere that Hitler was good.
So why you insist on playing this card is beyond me. In the face of the horrific and heartbreaking scenes we get to see from the Middle East instigated by Israel it is PERFECTLY understandable to wonder why Hitler hated the Jews. And questions ARE being asked TODAY in the face of all this horror "why were the Jews always persecuted....Might there be a reason"" ??? That is what the horrific actions taken by Israel over the past 50 years have caused people to wonder and now OPENLY ask worldwide. It is a direct result of the Israeli aggression and OUR participation in it. Nothing justifies what Hitler did just as it doesn't justify anything Israel has done in the past and is currently doing. There is ENORMOUS anger worldwide. That you do not know the true history of the M.E. is because American media does not discuss any illegal occupation or oppression. But it does report Israeli "suffering" caued by the Palestinians. There is a very carefully controled DISCONNECT in the U.S. media that Palestinian actions are the result of Israeli aggression. You need to do a little work and learn the history of the M.E. rather than swallow hook line and sinker what the media dishes out and want you to believe. The Economist has some very interesting things to say about how totally different the Americans feel about the Israeli issue and see their suffering while completely denying the illegal invasion/occupation of Palestinian proper for over 40 years vs Europe and the rest of the world who are well informed on both sides.

NO ONE IS GETTING A FREE PASS HERE. As a survivor of Nazi occupation with a father very active in he underground and grandparents who risked their lives DAILY by having a safehouse for Jews this kind of whining disingenuous post makes me sick, you need to stop whining about Hitler. Whatever atrocities Hitler committed and we all know what he did, does not in any way justify the actions of Israel. You need to have someone tell you that Hitler was evil?? You're not sure....you need to have it confirmed? Then what......

PS Let me explain something to you as a person who lived through it, as small as I was at the time. What Bush is doing today is the very same thing Hitler did in Germany in the early 30s prior to the war. Little by little taking more power and violating the rights of people. You have a very incomplete understanding of what happened. You think Hitler started taking people to Concentration camps in the 30s?? . No he didn't But right now WE have numerous concentration camps, Quantanimo Bay...what do you think that is??? We have secret jails in Afhanistan, we have Abu Graib. What do you think these places really are? They house nameless people, none are charged with any crime. Hardly any have been tried. So what do you call that?? What the hell are "enemy combatants" except for something Bush made up. He is about as illegal as it gets and NO ONE is standing up to him. What is the Patriot Act? Illegal wiretaps. Checking of e-mails. What are the signing statements but a direct violation of our Constitution. Between 1778 and the year 2000 the total of ALL signing statements was 800 something in TOTAL. Between 2000 and 2006 Bush has signed over 3000. The American Bar Association, which is about as conservative as you can get, made a public statement that Bush is violating the Constitution with these signing statements . He has raped it, and that is precisely what Hitler did, before he started invading other countries and rounding up the Jews and numerous others. Very quietly, and without any media coverage. And in the face of the new book written by Governor Kean that many of the testimonies on 9/11 were false and that the Commission knew that the facts did not mesh up but failed to follow up, could we safely assume a cover up? You bet. Was the fire in the Reichstag a cover up? You bet.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jul2001/reic-j05.shtml

I am, quite frankly, sick and tired of the holocaust ONLY referring to Jews. It DIDN'T. SIX million others were killed. Percentage wise a far higher number of Gypsies were killed than Jews. You hear them demanding compensation....a country of their own?? You tell me.

[Fair &Balanced Who Ca]

This thread is as surely a diversion of what is currently taking place in the M.E. at the hands of the Israelis as it is to deny that Hitler created a holocaust. I have not seen anyone claiming anywhere that Hitler was good.
So why you insist on playing this card is beyond me. In the face of the horrific and heartbreaking scenes we get to see from the Middle East instigated by Israel it is PERFECTLY understandable to wonder why Hitler hated the Jews. And questions ARE being asked TODAY in the face of all this horror "why were the Jews always persecuted....Might there be a reason"" ??? That is what the horrific actions taken by Israel over the past 50 years have caused people to wonder and now OPENLY ask worldwide. It is a direct result of the Israeli aggression and OUR participation in it. Nothing justifies what Hitler did just as it doesn't justify anything Israel has done in the past and is currently doing. There is ENORMOUS anger worldwide. That you do not know the true history of the M.E. is because American media does not discuss any illegal occupation or oppression. But it does report Israeli "suffering" caued by the Palestinians. There is a very carefully controled DISCONNECT in the U.S. media that Palestinian actions are the result of Israeli aggression. You need to do a little work and learn the history of the M.E. rather than swallow hook line and sinker what the media dishes out and want you to believe. The Economist has some very interesting things to say about how totally different the Americans feel about the Israeli issue and see their suffering while completely denying the illegal invasion/occupation of Palestinian proper for over 40 years vs Europe and the rest of the world who are well informed on both sides.

NO ONE IS GETTING A FREE PASS HERE. As a survivor of Nazi occupation with a father very active in he underground and grandparents who risked their lives DAILY by having a safehouse for Jews this kind of whining disingenuous post makes me sick, you need to stop whining about Hitler. Whatever atrocities Hitler committed and we all know what he did, does not in any way justify the actions of Israel. You need to have someone tell you that Hitler was evil?? You're not sure....you need to have it confirmed? Then what......

PS Let me explain something to you as a person who lived through it, as small as I was at the time. What Bush is doing today is the very same thing Hitler did in Germany in the early 30s prior to the war. Little by little taking more power and violating the rights of people. You have a very incomplete understanding of what happened. You think Hitler started taking people to Concentration camps in the 30s?? . No he didn't But right now WE have numerous concentration camps, Quantanimo Bay...what do you think that is??? We have secret jails in Afhanistan, we have Abu Graib. What do you think these places really are? They house nameless people, none are charged with any crime. Hardly any have been tried. So what do you call that?? What the hell are "enemy combatants" except for something Bush made up. He is about as illegal as it gets and NO ONE is standing up to him. What is the Patriot Act? Illegal wiretaps. Checking of e-mails. What are the signing statements but a direct violation of our Constitution. Between 1778 and the year 2000 the total of ALL signing statements was 800 something in TOTAL. Between 2000 and 2006 Bush has signed over 3000. The American Bar Association, which is about as conservative as you can get, made a public statement that Bush is violating the Constitution with these signing statements . He has raped it, and that is precisely what Hitler did, before he started invading other countries and rounding up the Jews and numerous others. Very quietly, and without any media coverage. And in the face of the new book written by Governor Kean that many of the testimonies on 9/11 were false and that the Commission knew that the facts did not mesh up but failed to follow up, could we safely assume a cover up? You bet. Was the fire in the Reichstag a cover up? You bet.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jul2001/reic-j05.shtml

I am, quite frankly, sick and tired of the holocaust ONLY referring to Jews. It DIDN'T. SIX million others were killed. Percentage wise a far higher number of Gypsies were killed than Jews. You hear them demanding compensation....a country of their own?? You tell me.

Gerry skimmed the post that SAID HITLER HAD THE RIGHT IDEA, AND THAT BERTRAND AGREED WITH.

She is in denial.

She also is stating categorically that Israel has no right to exist.

Jews should just shut up and die.

[Bubba2]

Great post Gerry.

Gypsies don't matter. Only Jews. Bush does the bidding of the likud and is therefor immune from criticism.

[Mark]

Great post Gerry.

Gypsies don't matter. Only Jews. Bush does the bidding of the likud and is therefor immune from criticism.

See, that is the problem. You think if I object to Hitler references that it means you cannot criticize Bush. That's not true. Bush has done enough damage on his own to warrant being fired.

Frankly, I wish we would cut Israel loose. I'm tired of their problems. I don't care about their Zionism. It doesn't resonate with me and I think it is wrong to expand beyond the 1967 borders. But, you want to invoke Hitler and others seem to like the idea of Hitler's final solution. At that point, I step off.

Please try to understand the difference.

[Bubba2]

See, that is the problem. You think if I object to Hitler references that it means you cannot criticize Bush. That's not true. Bush has done enough damage on his own to warrant being fired.

Frankly, I wish we would cut Israel loose. I'm tired of their problems. I don't care about their Zionism. It doesn't resonate with me and I think it is wrong to expand beyond the 1967 borders. But, you want to invoke Hitler and others seem to like the idea of Hitler's final solution. At that point, I step off.

Please try to understand the difference.

I know the difference. Defenders of the radical likud zionists bring in hitler as a diversion. They can't defend the actions of their nazi state, so they divert by calling their "Great Satan".

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement, "Frankly, I wish we would cut Israel loose. I'm tired of their problems. I don't care about their Zionism. It doesn't resonate with me and I think it is wrong to expand beyond the 1967 borders."

[Mark]

I know the difference. Defenders of the radical likud zionists bring in hitler as a diversion. They can't defend the actions of their nazi state, so they divert by calling their "Great Satan".

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement, "Frankly, I wish we would cut Israel loose. I'm tired of their problems. I don't care about their Zionism. It doesn't resonate with me and I think it is wrong to expand beyond the 1967 borders."

To expand further, I believe it was wrong that they were even created at all. The Balfour Statement seems to be held up as a legal document in the sense that it gives Israel the right to exist. That document was merely the outcome of a badgering (of the Brits) campaign by Zionists. The statement is an encouragement of the creation of Israel, but it also talkes about respecting the rights of those who live in the area. I believe that Israel, with the support of the United States (remember, Truman was a Democrat) was illegally formed. It is clear that this will never be reversed, so I have capitulated and decided that the 1967 borders are just and fair. Anything else beyond that is wrong. I have come a long way in my attitudes towards the PLO. I was horrified by the 1972 Munich Games ( I was 12 years old) and thought these people to be evil. I now understand, to a certain extent, their need to fight for their rights, but I still abhor the tactics of suicide bombers against innocent civilians. I believe that Hezbollah and Hamas have as much to answer for at this point in time as Israel. Jesus is my savior and I believe that he would not see a peacemaker among any of them.

My question (and I've asked this before) is this: Where is the Palestinian Ghandhi?

[Bubba2]

My question (and I've asked this before) is this: Where is the Palestinian Ghandhi?

He was crushed by a Caterpillar D-9 Dozer.

[Mark]

He was crushed by a Caterpillar D-9 Dozer.

Hopefully not. If there is a God, then that didn't happen.

[Neurobürger]

Who started the fire? And no, it wasn't Billy Joel.

berlin S.A. Mann Karl Ernst

-----


****The whole truth about the Reichstag fire will probably never be known. Nearly all those who knew it are now dead, most of them slain by Hitler in the months that followed. Even at Nuremberg the mystery could not be entirely unraveled, though there is enough evidence to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that it was the Nazis who planned the arson and carried it out for their own political ends.
****From Goering's Reichstag President's Palace an underground passage, built to carry the central heating system, ran to the Reichstag building. Through this tunnel Karl Ernst, a former hotel bellhop who had become the Berlin S.A. leader, led a small detachment of storm troopers on the night of February 27 to the Reichstag, where they scattered gasoline and self-igniting chemicals and then made their way quickly back to the palace the way they had come. At the same time a half-witted Dutch Communist with a passion for arson, Marinus van der Lubbe, had made his way into the huge, darkened and to him unfamiliar building and set some small fires of his own. This feeble-minded pyromaniac was a godsend to the Nazis. He had been picked up by the S.A. a few days before after having been overheard in a bar boasting that he had attempted to set fire to several public buildings and that he was going to try the Reichstag next.
****The coincidence that the Nazis had found a demented Communist arsonist who was out to do exactly what they themselves had determined to do seems incredible but is nevertheless supported by the evidence. The idea for the fire almost certainly originated with Goebbels and Goering. Hans Gisevius, an official in the Prussian Ministry of the Interior at the time, testified at Nuremberg that "it was Goebbels who first thought of setting the Reichstag on fire," and Rudolf Diels, the Gestapo chief, added in an affidavit that "Goering knew exactly how the fire was to be started" and had ordered him "to prepare, prior to the fire, a list of people who were to be arrested immediately after it." General Franz Halder, Chief of the German General Staff during the early part of World War II, recalled at Nuremberg how on one occasion Goering had boasted of his deed.

****At a luncheon on the birthday of the Fuehrer in 1942 the conversation turned to the topic of the Reichstag building and its artistic value. I heard with my own ears when Goering interrupted the conversation and shouted: "The only one who really knows about the Reichstag is I, because I set it on fire!" With that he slapped his thigh with the flat of his hand.*

*Both in his interrogations and at his trial at Nuremberg, Goering denied to the last that he had any part in setting fire to the Reichstag.



****Van der Lubbe, it seems clear, was a dupe of the Nazis. He was encouraged to try to set the Reichstag on fire. But the main job was to be done—without his knowledge, of course—by the storm troopers. Indeed, it was established at the subsequent trial at Leipzig that the Dutch half-wit did not possess the means to set so vast a building on fire so quickly. Two and a half minutes after he entered, the great central hall was fiercely burning. He had only his shirt for tinder. The main fires, according to the testimony of experts at the trial, had been set with considerable quantities of chemicals and gasoline. It was obvious that one man could not have carried them into the building, nor would it have been possible for him to start so many fires in so many scattered places in so short a time.
****Van der Lubbe was arrested on the spot and Goering, as he afterward told the court, wanted to hang him at once. The next day Ernst Torgler, parliamentary leader of the Communists, gave himself up to the police when he heard that Goering had implicated him, and a few days later Georgi Dimitroff, a Bulgarian Communist who later became Prime Minister of Bulgaria, and two other Bulgarian Communists, Popov and Tanev, were apprehended by the police. Their subsequent trial before the Supreme Court at Leipzig turned into something of a fiasco for the Nazis and especially for Goering, whom Dimitroff, acting as his own lawyer, easily provoked into making a fool of himself in a series of stinging cross-examinations. At one point, according to the court record, Goering screamed at the Bulgarian, "Out with you, you scoundrel!"

****JUDGE [to the police officer]: Take him away.
****DIMITROFF [being led away by the police]: Are you afraid of my question, Herr Ministerpraesident?
****GOERING: You wait until we get you outside this court, you scoundrel!

****Torgler and the three Bulgarians were acquitted, though the German Communist leader was immediately taken into "protective custody," where he remained until his death during the second war. Van der Lubbe was found guilty and decapitated.(7)
****The trial, despite the subserviency of the court to the Nazi authorities, cast a great deal of suspicion on Goering and the Nazis, but it came too late to have any practical effect. For Hitler had lost no time in exploiting the Reichstag fire to the limit.
****On the day following the fire, February 28, he prevailed on President Hindenburg to sign a decree "for the Protection of the People and the State" suspending the seven sections of the constitution which guaranteed individual and civil liberties. Described as a "defensive measure against Communist acts of violence endangering the state," the decree laid down that:

****Restrictions on personal liberty, on the right of free expression of opinion, including freedom of the press; on the rights of assembly and association; and violations of the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications; and warrants for house searchers, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed.

****In addition, the decree authorized the Reich government to take over complete power in the federal states when necessary and imposed the death sentence for a number of crimes, including "serious disturbances of the peace" by armed persons.(8)
**** Thus with one stroke Hitler was able not only to legally gag his opponents and arrest them at his will but, by making the trumped-up Communist threat "official," as it were, to throw millions of the middle class and the peasantry into a frenzy of fear that unless they voted for National Socialism at the elections a week hence, the Bolsheviks might take over. Some four thousand Communist officials and a great many Social Democrat and liberal leaders were arrested, including members of the Reichstag, who, according to the law, were immune from arrest. This was the first experience Germans had had with Nazi terror backed up by the government. Truckloads of storm troopers roared through the streets all over Germany, breaking into homes, rounding up victims and carting them off to S.A. barracks, where they were tortured and beaten. The Communist press and political meetings were suppressed; the Social Democrat newspapers and many liberal journals were suspended and the meetings of the democratic parties either banned or broken up. Only the Nazis and their Nationalist allies were permitted to campaign unmolested.
****With all the resources of the national and Prussian governments at their disposal and with plenty of money from big business in their coffers, the Nazis carried on an election propaganda such as Germany had never seen before. For the first time the State-run radio carried the voices of Hitler, Goering and Goebbels to every corner of the land. The streets, bedecked with swastika flags, echoed to the tramp of the storm troopers. There were mass rallies, torchlight parades, the din of loudspeakers in the squares. The billboards were plastered with flamboyant Nazi posters and at night bonfires lit up the hills. The electorate was in turn cajoled with promises of a German paradise, intimidated by the brown terror in the streets and frightened by "revelations" about the Communist "revolution." The day after the Reichstag fire the Prussian government issued a long statement declaring that it had found Communist "documents" proving:

****Government buildings, museums, mansions and essential plants were to be burned down . . . Women and children were to be sent in front of terrorist groups . . . The burning of the Reichstag was to be the signal for a bloody insurrection and civil war . . . It has been ascertained that today was to have seen throughout Germany terrorist acts against individual persons, against private property, and against the life and limb of the peaceful population, and also the beginning of general civil war.

****Publication of the "documents proving that Communist conspiracy" was promised, but never made. The fact, however, that the Prussian government itself vouched for their authenticity impressed many Germans.

excerpts of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer

Simon and Schuster, 1960 - hardcover


from pages 188 - 196

http://www.maebrussell.com/Articles%20and%20Notes/Rise%20and%20Fall%20of%20the%20Third%20Reich.html

[Neurobürger]

You think Hitler started taking people to Concentration camps in the 30s?? . No he didn't


yes, he did

June, 1933: Nazis open Dachau (http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/dach-early.htm)

[a-Citisen]

of #22

At that time they were referred to as political camps for the stray political thinkers. The "concentration" part came later.

[Kuni]

You all know I have strenuously opposed equating the BA to the Nazi's and I always will. There is no comparison . . .Then explain to me the difference between the Nazi’s and those on the Right who want to “nuke them all” and support the kidnapping and torture of innocent people on the off chance they may know someone in al-Qaeda or the Taliban.

[Mark]

Then explain to me the difference between the Nazi’s and those on the Right who want to “nuke them all” and support the kidnapping and torture of innocent people on the off chance they may know someone in al-Qaeda or the Taliban.

I don't know who wants to "nuke them all." We have a bunch of rednecks in this country and that sentiment probably was expressed prior to the BA gaining office. As for the kidnapping and torture of innocent people, I would defy you to actually compare that to the systematic rounding of of hundreds of thousands or even more (see how I'm being fair here? I'm not defaulting to 6,000,000) Jewish citizens to be sent to their death.

It's not even close and your attempts to make it so are quite puzzling to me...

[Kuni]

As for the kidnapping and torture of innocent people, I would defy you to actually compare that to the systematic rounding of of hundreds of thousands or even more (see how I'm being fair here? I'm not defaulting to 6,000,000) Jewish citizens to be sent to their death.

It's not even close and your attempts to make it so are quite puzzling to me...Puzzling? It’s the two share the same mentality; it just a matter of scale.

Whether someone sells their ass for $10, or a $6,000,000; they are still a whore. The “mind set” required to support, or even rationalize, the kidnap and torture of innocent civilians is the same as the Nazi’s had.

[Mark]

Puzzling? It’s the two share the same mentality; it just a matter of scale.

Whether someone sells their ass for $10, or a $6,000,000; they are still a whore. The “mind set” required to support, or even rationalize, the kidnap and torture of innocent civilians is the same as the Nazi’s had.

I've not seen too many liberals make that leap when it comes to defending petty crimes committed by minorities. So, a person who steals a few bucks is the same as Ken Lay? It seems that in this case, you want to gloss over the differences because it supports your hatred of the BA. I too am against the BA, but not to the extent that you are. I won't make that leap because it is not the same.

[Gerry]

yes, he did

June, 1933: Nazis open Dachau (http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/dach-early.htm)

These early, crude concentration camps were not the centralized, streamlined institutions they were later to become. They were primitive prison camps. Nothing more. If you had money you could buy your way out. Dachau was expanded in 1936 and subsequently in 1938 and 1939(the war had already started) . Prior to the war , its inmates were mainly the political opposition and the Gypsies. None of the serious building started until Hitler was funded by the Bushes and Harrimans and started building Concentrations camps and extermination camps meant for very large groups. Mass exterminations did not take place until well into the war. So it was not known until AFTER the war what Hitler had done within Germany itself vis a vis the Jews. That the Gypsies were persecuted was considered normal since they were "subhuman" and had been discriminated against for centuries. Even after gypsies and Jews were transported from occupied territoris to Concentration Camps or extermination camps it was not widely known outside of Europe and the horrific tales did not come back to those in the occupied lands except via illegally smuggled photos which my parents used to receive via the underground. There were rumors...and people disappeared, never to be heard from again. Numerous transport ships with Jewish refugees were refused entry into NY's harbor and either returned to Germany or if they were lucky went to Cuba. In hindsight we have a total picture. In those days there wasn't.

[Jay_Esbe]

Hitler bad.

[Mark]

Hitler bad.

Esbe good. Thank you.

[Jay_Esbe]

Esbe good. Thank you.

Esbe tired of being called Nazi. Esbe not change views. Hitler always bad to Esbe. Ugly too.

[Kuni]

So, a person who steals a few bucks is the same as Ken Lay?According to our justice system: Worse. They apparently get more time.

As for Morals; the answer is yes. A person who steals a little, will steal lots if the opportunity presents itself.

[Mark]

According to our justice system: Worse. They apparently get more time.

As for Morals; the answer is yes. A person who steals a little, will steal lots if the opportunity presents itself.

I guess it just depends on what you consider to be petty crime. From what I have seen, the white collar criminals of today are getting long sentences, unless they cop a plea. We'll see what Skilling gets, but I anticipate he will be in prison for most if not the rest of his life. I hope I'm correct on this, because I believe he should pay a severe penatly for his actions.

[Kuni]

I guess it just depends on what you consider to be petty crime. From what I have seen, the white collar criminals of today are getting long sentences, unless they cop a plea. We'll see what Skilling gets, but I anticipate he will be in prison for most if not the rest of his life. I hope I'm correct on this, because I believe he should pay a severe penatly for his actions.Some guy in California got life, for stealing a slice of Pizza. It was his 3rd strike. That was a petty crime, and if Skilling is going to get a “proportional” sentence, to that, means they’ll have to burn him alive in public. And I just don’t see that happening.

[Mark]

Some guy in California got life, for stealing a slice of Pizza. It was his 3rd strike. That was a petty crime, and if Skilling is going to get a “proportional” sentence, to that, means they’ll have to burn him alive in public. And I just don’t see that happening.

Alright, what is the specific law? I suppose you are talking the three strikes and your out law, but is this any three crimes? Three felonies? Or what? I believe the intent of the law was to create a deterrent for habitual criminals. Society, in general (I assume you would agree with the theory), get tired of dealing with the same criminals over and over, so at some point, the law now say's enough. That is the context of the law. If it is putting someone away for life on a pizza theft, then I would say that it has gone overboard.

[Kuni]

Alright, what is the specific law? I suppose you are talking the three strikes and your out law, but is this any three crimes? Three felonies? Or what? I believe the intent of the law was to create a deterrent for habitual criminals. Society, in general (I assume you would agree with the theory), get tired of dealing with the same criminals over and over, so at some point, the law now say's enough. That is the context of the law. If it is putting someone away for life on a pizza theft, then I would say that it has gone overboard.And at some point we also have to say “enough”; and add up the accumulated evils of Bush and his supporters and say “Yes; they are just like the Nazi’s.” Or do you suggest that we let them get away with even more evil? At what point should we intervene; when they arrest you under the following law?

http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showthread.php?t=44889
A DRAFT Bush Administration plan for special military courts seeks to expand the authority of such commissions to people who are not members of al-Qaeda or the Taliban and are not directly involved in acts of international terrorism. . .

Or maybe we should wait till Garry Routh kills all the Muslims: http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showpost.php?p=605981&postcount=9
There will be endless war as long as islam is allowed to exist.Maybe you could explain to us the difference between Garry and the Nazi’s?

[Mark]

And at some point we also have to say “enough”; and add up the accumulated evils of Bush and his supporters and say “Yes; they are just like the Nazi’s.” Or do you suggest that we let them get away with even more evil? At what point should we intervene; when they arrest you under the following law?

http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showthread.php?t=44889
A DRAFT Bush Administration plan for special military courts seeks to expand the authority of such commissions to people who are not members of al-Qaeda or the Taliban and are not directly involved in acts of international terrorism. . .

Or maybe we should wait till Garry Routh kills all the Muslims: http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showpost.php?p=605981&postcount=9
Maybe you could explain to us the difference between Garry and the Nazi’s?

I don't know Gary. If he is a Nazi or a skin-head, then I would support you in your objections to his rhetoric. In fact, I object to his comment about killing all the Muslims. This is wrong. I am against killing anyone.

My objections to the Nazi references have everything to do with the Holocaust. By throwing the word Nazi around, it trivializes the realities of WWII.

[Gerry]

I don't know Gary. If he is a Nazi or a skin-head, then I would support you in your objections to his rhetoric. In fact, I object to his comment about killing all the Muslims. This is wrong. I am against killing anyone.

My objections to the Nazi references have everything to do with the Holocaust. By throwing the word Nazi around, it trivializes the realities of WWII.


Mark

People who are familiar with the breeding ground that gave rise to the NSB (Nazi party) recognize that what Bush is doing is using the same tactics Hitler did. Do we let Bush continue and start killing, just like the Germans did with Hitler, or have we learned and do we recognize the dangers this man is putting us in and say NO!! Hitler started small by taking away peoples rights a little at a time. Bush is doing the same. We are doing the victims of the holocaust a FAR GREATER injustice if we have learned nothing from their senseless deaths and let history repeat itself. .

[Mark]

Mark

People who are familiar with the breeding ground that gave rise to the NSB (Nazi party) recognize that what Bush is doing is using the same tactics Hitler did. Do we let Bush continue and start killing, just like the Germans did with Hitler, or have we learned and do we recognize the dangers this man is putting us in and say NO!! Hitler started small by taking away peoples rights a little at a time. Bush is doing the same. We are doing the victims of the holocaust a FAR GREATER injustice if we have learned nothing from their senseless deaths and let history repeat itself. .

Certainly we should use history as a guide and a reference point. I don't have a problem challenging Bush when it comes to Constitutional matters. You seem to be advocating a pre-emptive strike against him because of similarities in trying to sway the public to his opinion. I hear you on many levels, but I think you just scare away the moderates/fence-sitters when you invoke the most heinous group of people in the world.

[Jay_Esbe]

Certainly we should use history as a guide and a reference point. I don't have a problem challenging Bush when it comes to Constitutional matters. You seem to be advocating a pre-emptive strike against him because of similarities in trying to sway the public to his opinion. I hear you on many levels, but I think you just scare away the moderates/fence-sitters when you invoke the most heinous group of people in the world.

Just give Bush more time. The Third Reich wasn't built in a day.

[Gerry]

Just give Bush more time. The Third Reich wasn't built in a day.

That's what I keep telling them..... I really don;t know what it takes for people to wake up.

[Bertrand]

That's what I keep telling them..... I really don;t know what it takes for people to wake up.

Methinks when Americans are hit much much harder in their pockets... and suddenly they take a much closer look at what's happening politically and where their tax dollars are going.... while China is rising with great speed, economically, financially, militarily and politically... now supplying 60% of all manufactured goods of the world.

But then let us not underestimate the ingenuity of the American marketing of anything that the powers have to manipulate... in combination with the gullibility and blind following of the public... at play here. They used that in taking America to invade Iraq violating all international laws and rules after nine months of bombing Iraq... in the guise of surveilance... using the media and their skills in marketing... Saddam became suddenly a huge devil immediate menace... spreading hate and fear in America.

Isolation and the undermining of America's reputation and credibility has not yet affected this suicidal Bush regime... since 911... and UNTIL the taxpayer stands up seeing what it all means... nothing appears will change even if Democrats become the majority in the U.S. governance.

I believe the reckoning is coming... and probably it will be signalled with a big fall in the value of the dollar and a big decline of the U.S. stock markets... that are already signalling right now based on my own indicators... The unravelling has started... but the American people appear confused yet... until they are really hit strongly in their pockets... like the gas prices are now beginning to do...

Let's hope all of this will not end up with a worldwide calamity... that these desperate powerful small 2 state terrorists... led by the same Neocon/Zionist group... entranched in our government... must become so scared... that they will do something irrational... and go down... with the rest of the them... Unfortunately this group in NOTORIOUS of not KNOWING WHERE THE LIMITS of THEIR AGGRESSION on world stage... happens to be... and at what point Russia, China and the EU are going to stand up... and tell this insane regime in America to stop it.... after they have seen the destruction of Iraq, and Lebanon... under false flags and slogans of spreading Democracy and Freedom... and what really has actually happened since 911 and the illegitimate invasion of the tiny nation of Iraq in 2003!

[Gerry]

So far economists predict that the dollar will settle at Euro 1.60....some say Euro 1.80
I am not sure that they are taking into account the many dollars that are coming home from abroad when it stops being the reserve currency. More and more countries are ditching the dollar and beginning to sell oil in the Euro, Russia is beginning to sell in the Rouble.

They are also aware that if the U.S goes down so do they economically speaking. Everything is interconnected.

It's a big mess and the hoodlums in Washington have no clue and spent like it's Monopoly money.

[cmath]

Good try Mark, but your dad should have told you never piss into the wind. Gerry, Kuni, Bertrand and Esbe consider George Bush a Nazi and nothing you can say will EVER convince them they are wrong.

[Bubba2]

Good try Mark, but your dad should have told you never piss into the wind. Gerry, Kuni, Bertrand and Esbe consider George Bush a Nazi and nothing you can say will EVER convince them they are wrong.

You forgot Bubba.

Don't let it happen again!

[Mark]

You forgot Bubba.

Don't let it happen again!

Is there more than one Bubba (Bubba2)?

[Sexy Senior Citizen]

Good try Mark, but your dad should have told you never piss into the wind. Gerry, Kuni, Bertrand and Esbe consider George Bush a Nazi and nothing you can say will EVER convince them they are wrong.

Please include 'Sexy Senior Citizen' also. Thank you. You made my day.

[a-Citisen]

Nazis,

Supporters of the current USA political kill and destroy plan for the world oft try to say the BA2 with -w- in tow are not nazis. But all they mean to do, is deflect the only very real point-comparative known to human history. That is the political ploy of that now controlling minority some of us have repeatedly called the "neoconservatives". That ploy is specifically to deny human history. Instead, that history becomes only whatever will best serve their ends, their aim. At this particular point in time, the nazi-like description is not something they can laff off and admit to, a few intelligent leaders still resist them- the controllers, but once that few- intelligent world leaders, are out of the way then the chuckling can begin.

[Kuni]

My objections to the Nazi references have everything to do with the Holocaust. By throwing the word Nazi around, it trivializes the realities of WWII.It would also ‘trivialize’ the sacrifices made by Liberal Democracies in fighting the Nazi’s if we were to ignore the lessons of history.

There is no difference in the mentality of the individuals involved; the same person who supports to kidnap and torture of innocent civilians is the same person who would support the rounding up and murder of 6 million Jews.

What is the difference between the Nazi’s and Michael Savage?

http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showthread.php?t=4316
"I think there should be no mercy shown to these sub-humans. I believe that a thousand of them should be killed tomorrow. I think a thousand of them held in the Iraqi prison should be given 24 hour[s] -- a trial and executed. I think they need to be shown that we are not going to roll over to them ... Instead of putting joysticks, I would have liked to have seen dynamite put in their orifices and they should be dropped from airplanes ... They should put dynamite in their behinds and drop them from 35,000 feet, the whole pack of scum out of that jail."

[Mark]

It would also ‘trivialize’ the sacrifices made by Liberal Democracies in fighting the Nazi’s if we were to ignore the lessons of history.

There is no difference in the mentality of the individuals involved; the same person who supports to kidnap and torture of innocent civilians is the same person who would support the rounding up and murder of 6 million Jews.

What is the difference between the Nazi’s and Michael Savage?

http://forums.ariannaonline.com/showthread.php?t=4316
"I think there should be no mercy shown to these sub-humans. I believe that a thousand of them should be killed tomorrow. I think a thousand of them held in the Iraqi prison should be given 24 hour[s] -- a trial and executed. I think they need to be shown that we are not going to roll over to them ... Instead of putting joysticks, I would have liked to have seen dynamite put in their orifices and they should be dropped from airplanes ... They should put dynamite in their behinds and drop them from 35,000 feet, the whole pack of scum out of that jail."

What does Michael Savage have to do with our government?

I've heard some left-wing Hispanics say that they are going to take over Texas and our country because they have rights here and because the illegals are having more babies than whites. But, that's not a problem to you is it? It's just a private citizen (a professor at the University of Texas), like Michael Savage. This professor has as much impact on our government policies as Savage.

Your have a warped since of needing to be correct. 6,000,000 Jews being rounded up and exterminated is not comparable to anything. The fact that you think so tells me that something happened in your personal life that has emotionally impacted you greatly. I'm sorry if that is the truth, but I can't begin to understand your inability to see the difference.

[a-Citisen]

Jews+Arabs= Semites

So, in back in the 30-40s some people financially supported nazism and A Hitler, who eventually killed lots of so-called "jews". Today, the USA in the control of those who are family descendants of those who supported nazism and A Hitler, kill and destroy Arabs; but, Arabs and "jews" are semitic peoples. What is the difference of then and now?

[Kuni]

What does Michael Savage have to do with our government?

I've heard some left-wing Hispanics say that they are going to take over Texas and our country because they have rights here and because the illegals are having more babies than whites. But, that's not a problem to you is it? It's just a private citizen (a professor at the University of Texas), like Michael Savage. This professor has as much impact on our government policies as Savage.

Your have a warped since of needing to be correct. 6,000,000 Jews being rounded up and exterminated is not comparable to anything. The fact that you think so tells me that something happened in your personal life that has emotionally impacted you greatly. I'm sorry if that is the truth, but I can't begin to understand your inability to see the difference.I don’t recall any Hispanics who advocate the taking over of Texas being mouthpieces for the Left. Nor do I recall stating the Savage was a member of the ‘government’. I merely inquired as to whether or not there was a difference between him and Nazi’s. And if you could show us a post by me where I indicate I have no problem with Illegal’s having more babies than, to use your word, “Whites”; I’d like to see that one.


And emotional damage on my part, or not; you have not shown how those who support the kidnapping and torture of innocent civilians are different from the Nazi’s. How is their ‘mind set’ different? You claim they are different; but provide no facts to support that claim. If a murderer kills 10, or if he kills 6,000,000, he is still a Murderer.

[Gerry]

What does Michael Savage have to do with our government?

I've heard some left-wing Hispanics say that they are going to take over Texas and our country because they have rights here and because the illegals are having more babies than whites. But, that's not a problem to you is it? It's just a private citizen (a professor at the University of Texas), like Michael Savage. This professor has as much impact on our government policies as Savage.

Your have a warped since of needing to be correct. 6,000,000 Jews being rounded up and exterminated is not comparable to anything. The fact that you think so tells me that something happened in your personal life that has emotionally impacted you greatly. I'm sorry if that is the truth, but I can't begin to understand your inability to see the difference.


I do not believe numbers are the issue here. The similarities of the ethnic cleansing which means the total distruction of an ethnic group is the same Hitler engaged in. If the Israelis use a different method, the result is still the same. Dead is dead, There are no degress of being dead or being worse because the numbers differ. The destruction by Hitler of ONE JEW was ONE TOO MANY. Israel has over the years killed close to a million if not more Palestinians and Arabs. It is the savagery they use under the cloak of self-defense that is so revolting. And for people who suffered that much at the hand of Hitler to turn around and do the same to the Palestinians is mind boggling. Like Israel has indoctrinated the entire American newsmedia, Michael Savage and the Rush Limbaughs of this contry indoctrinated the american masses on a grand scale. You need to accept that.

[Gerry]

Jews+Arabs= Semites

So, in back in the 30-40s some people financially supported nazism and A Hitler, who eventually killed lots of so-called "jews". Today, the USA in the control of those who are family descendants of those who supported nazism and A Hitler, kill and destroy Arabs; but, Arabs and "jews" are semitic peoples. What is the difference of then and now?

there is none! Some people play the number game, but that's not very valid in my book.

[Bubba2]

Jews+Arabs= Semites

So, in back in the 30-40s some people financially supported nazism and A Hitler, who eventually killed lots of so-called "jews". Today, the USA in the control of those who are family descendants of those who supported nazism and A Hitler, kill and destroy Arabs; but, Arabs and "jews" are semitic peoples. What is the difference of then and now?

WRONG!!!

90% of Jews ARE NOT Semitic. They are decended from Khazar peoples of S. Russia who migrated into Poland and Germany. They're converts to Judaism in the 8th century a.d.

[a-Citisen]

Careful #55,

That "jew" thing is very ticklish. Most of the political controllers of Israel are not even practioners of the so-called "jewish" religion. Now you want it known that they are not even semites? whew! too much

[a-Citisen]

Ignorance Bliss

So Bubba, could you be saying that those who support what the BA2 with -w- in tow do in the ME do so either in ignorance or they know well, that dark age simplicity of 'the race' as its against the ME islamic thing?

[Bubba2]

Careful #55,

That "jew" thing is very ticklish. Most of the political controllers of Israel are not even practioners of the so-called "jewish" religion. Now you want it known that they are not even semites? whew! too much

Yeah, Israel is NOT about race, and it's NOT about religion.

WHAT IS ISRAEL ABOUT??

[Jay_Esbe]

........6,000,000 Jews being rounded up and exterminated is not comparable to anything............

As usual, what I'm about to say here is gonna get me called a "Nazi" again, but given the quality of the "minds" who've made the charge already, it doesn't mean a thing to me if they do it again so here's why I don't agree with that.

Hitler killed 6 MILLION non-Jews too. He -percentage wise- came a lot closer to a complete extinction of the Gypsies than he did the Jews. 6 million Gypisies, "racially inferior" Slavs, Romainians, intellectuals, artists, gays, hadnicapped people, you name it, if they didn't fit his Aryan "Fitness" ideal, they also went to the ovens.

So I think 6 million human beings -in my "anti-Semitic opinion"- are comparable to 6 million Jewish human beings. My "Anti-Semitism" forces me to value human life EQUALLY, regardless of "CLAN".

There are no museums, no ADL's, no lobbying groups, no foreign policies dedicated to the rights of the other half of Hitler's victims. If that doesn't tell you something important about all of this, it should.

[Bertrand]

As usual, what I'm about to say here is gonna get me called a "Nazi" again, but given the quality of the "minds" who've made the charge already, it doesn't mean a thing to me if they do it again so here's why I don't agree with that.

Hitler killed 6 MILLION non-Jews too. He -percentage wise- came a lot closer to a complete extinction of the Gypsies than he did the Jews. 6 million Gypisies, "racially inferior" Slavs, Romainians, intellectuals, artists, gays, hadnicapped people, you name it, if they didn't fit his Aryan "Fitness" ideal, they also went to the ovens.

So I think 6 million human beings -in my "anti-Semitic opinion"- are comparable to 6 million Jewish human beings. My "Anti-Semitism" forces me to value human life EQUALLY, regardless of "CLAN".

There are no museums, no ADL's, no lobbying groups, no foreign policies dedicated to the rights of the other half of Hitler's victims. If that doesn't tell you something important about all of this, it should.

In California, their lobby and reps... opposed even another holocaust- committed by the Turks against Armenians - from being memorialized by the State... in efforts to keep their holocaust as a monopoly!

[Jay_Esbe]

In California, their lobby and reps... opposed even another holocaust- committed by the Turks against Armenians - from being memorialized by the State... in efforts to keep their holocaust as a monopoly!

Those FILTHY cocksuckers are gonna burn in hell.

[Dingo]

I think Hannah Arendt made the point that there is a bit of Hitler in every government. The spin, the prejudices, the scapegoating, the mindless bureaucracy, the crushing of personal liberty in the name of security, and the unquestioning loyalty to the state. That's why she titled her piece on Eichman, who had a major involvement in the extermination process, 'The Banality of Evil.'

Still to say the present government is just like Hitler is using hyperbole. There is a problem in not making distinctions. You can contribute to destroying those distinctions in a cascade of partisan rhetoric and end up helping to usher in that which you purport to abhor.

[Jay_Esbe]

I think Hannah Arendt made the point that there is a bit of Hitler in every government. The spin, the prejudices, the scapegoating, the mindless bureaucracy, the crushing of personal liberty in the name of security, and the unquestioning loyalty to the state. That's why she titled her piece on Eichman, who had a major involvement in the extermination process, 'The Banality of Evil.'

Still to say the present government is just like Hitler is using hyperbole. There is a problem in not making distinctions. You can contribute to destroying those distinctions in a cascade of partisan rhetoric and end up helping to usher in that which you purport to abhor.

Who used the phrase "Just like Hitler"?

[Dingo]

Who used the phrase "Just like Hitler"?

In effect you among others.

Just give Bush more time. The Third Reich wasn't built in a day.

[Gerry]

In effect you among others.

ye needs to turnoff yur imagination sonny. It's runnin away wit ye.

[Sexy Senior Citizen]

http://xs66.xs.to/pics/06051/bush_hitler_no_difference.jpg (http://xs.to)

[Bertrand]

Those FILTHY cocksuckers are gonna burn in hell.

Indeed, 1.5 millions of Armenians perished in Turkish Armenia.

It never is a debate of numbers... when it comes to such atrocities against any group or collective of people... but a crime against mankind.

If one group can do against any other group because of might/power... than any and all groups could be vulnerable to it sometime depending on 'might is right' principle now used against Palestinian people.

But Zionists LOVE to convert the debate into numbers... DELIBERATELY... with the same self serving goals... hurling the same old TIRED insults and labels in this age of information and knowledge.

[Jay_Esbe]

In effect you among others.

"In effect"?

ONE MORE TIME ASS-HAT: WHO USED THE PHRASE "JUST LIKE HITLER"?

[Gerry]

"In effect"?

ONE MORE TIME ASS-HAT: WHO USED THE PHRASE "JUST LIKE HITLER"?

He's playing the same record over and over, cause that's all he knows.
He is SO unimportant in this whole discussion. He's like the annoying fly that is in need of a good swatting. Just ignore him.

[Jay_Esbe]

Originally Posted by Jay_Esbe
"In effect"?

ONE MORE TIME ASS-HAT: WHO USED THE PHRASE "JUST LIKE HITLER"?

He's playing the same record over and over, cause that's all he knows.
He is NO unimportant in this whole discussion. He's like the annoying fly that is in need of a good swatting. Just ignore him.

Clearly what I'm doing here, is exposing you as the liarwe all know you've been from day one. THAT is what I'm doing, and it's as easy as taking candy from a baby. No such phrase was used.

NEXT.

[Dingo]

Assbee the idiot and his pathetic girl friend seem to have trouble grasping that different phrases can in effect have the same meaning or maybe they are just running away from their strange sick tortured world.

They certainly deserve each other, with Berty Boy there to make a cute threesome. :rolleyes:

[Gerry]

Assbee the idiot and his pathetic girl friend seem to have trouble grasping that different phrases can in effect have the same meaning or maybe they are just running away from their strange sick tortured world.

They certainly deserve each other, with Berty Boy there to make a cute threesome. :rolleyes:

The quality of your debate is not improving...Same old...same old

You're doing it all to yourself.

[Dingo]

The quality of your debate is not improving...Same old...same old

You're doing it all to yourself.

You might be right about the quality of the debate (I needed some help there). But low quality truth is still truth.

[Gerry]

You might be right about the quality of the debate (I needed some help there). But low quality truth is still truth.

How's your foot??

Why are you here?

[Dingo]

Why are you here?

To expose the dark side Derry Vader.

[Gerry]

To expose the dark side Derry Vader.

Vader is what I called my Dad. Is that an attempt at humor?

[Dingo]

Vader is what I called my Dad. Is that an attempt at humor?
Just trying to catch the essence, humorously of course.

[Gerry]

Just trying to catch the essence, humorously of course.

This is the last time I am responding to you. You are here to disrupt this forum in defense of Israel and the Bush Admin. We all know what that makes you. So far the last 40 posts from you consisted of inane statements, namecalling and pissing contests. This is now over as far as I am concerned. I hope everyone will ignore you and you can go somewhere else.
Ignore list is a very good thing.

[Dingo]

Gerry leaves with a lie. The lady is shameless. She's must be a Mossad stooge. I can't imagine they'd pay her though. Too dumb.

Actually Halva previously tried to start a band wagon to get everybody to ignore me and I was hoping he would have some success, so I joined his campaign. Unfortunately it didn't catch on and even he eventually took me off ignore. But you Gerry, knowing that you are a substantial figure around here, might actually pull it off. Unfortunately I wouldn't leave anyway. Like a wolf I like to leave my mark. Kind of a territorial thing.