Shebaa Farms: The Cause or Not The Cause

[mickey]

Hezbollah's spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin had this to say about the area: "If they go from Sheba'a, we will not stop fighting them. Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine)...[Jews] can go back to Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) or wherever they came from.” New Yorker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Yorker), (October 14 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_14), 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002)).

[Dingo]

There's a lot of harsh uncompromising rhetoric floating around. The question is what will people settle for in a negotiated agreement.

[Gerry]

Hezbollah's spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin had this to say about the area: "If they go from Sheba'a, we will not stop fighting them. Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine)...[Jews] can go back to Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany) or wherever they came from.” New Yorker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Yorker), (October 14 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_14), 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002)).

Can you provide an official article or does it hail from the Jerusalem Post? And why the links?? I suspect most people know where Palestine IS, where Germany IS and the definition of New Yorker. What October 14 2002 has to do with anything beats me.

[mickey]

Can you provide an official article or does it hail from the Jerusalem Post? And why the links?? I suspect most people know where Palestine IS, where Germany IS and the definition of New Yorker. What October 14 2002 has to do with anything beats me.Are you saying that the guy didn't say it or wouldn't have said it? I hope you're right.

[Gerry]

Mickey - What you have done is provide a "blurp" that someone supposedly said. If he did say it I don't know in what context it was said. Let us not forget that this is a war zone and all Israeli claims notwithstanding Israel has NOT left Lebanon. So it is important to provide the source in order to establish its legitimacy. There is cause and effect, but strangely the U.S. media has turned that notion upside down. They claim Israel is defending itself while they refrain from every mentioning that THEY are involved in an illegal occupation for the past 40 years. That their brutal conduct against the Palestinians and also against the Lebanese has caused unbelievable suffering. The Israeli PR campaign is falling apart. Former U.S. diplomates have gone on record that Israel IS and has been committing war crimes for over 40 years, while it's PR machine paints it as retaliation against terrorists while it COMPLETELY hides the fact that they are in someone elses country oppressing its people and that these people, rightly so resist. The Israelis may paint themselves as victims, the reality is is that THEY are the aggressor causing inhumane conditions for the Palestinians. They have NO legitimacy, whereas Israels victims Palestinians) have a very legitimate right to defend themselves.
Did you know that EVERY Israeli Ambassador or Attache to the U.S. is carefully trained in presenting Israeli interpretation of the facts. That those working for the Israeli Embassy spent their days having breakfast, lunch and dinner with reporters and newsmedia to "feed" them information.?? Did you watch any of the Kluckers videos. There is one on the media. To call it shocking is an understatement. It is produced by Israelis who want to expose what is really happening. They want to give publicity to their own Israeli Peace Movements which is large but which is being marginalized by the Israeli PR machine. .

1. The present war had NOTHING, ZIP, NAD to do with anything that Lebanon did, like the kidnapping of the 2 Israelies which, incidentally were on Lebanese soil. Since it's supposed departure of Lebanon, Israel has engaged in kidnappings, incurions into Lebanon, illegal fly overs and bombings, all of which are against international law. Plans for the current invasion were on the books for over a year.
2. Israel is in dire need of water. Lebanon has it.

[mickey]

If that was the issue, why not just give it to them?

Let Assad have the Shaba Farms



Zvi Barel, Ha’aretz, 6.5.01





The United Nations has in its possession numerous, and sometimes peculiar, documents whose purpose is to prove that the Shaba Farms are indeed Lebanese, and not Syrian.



These documents include building permits issued to contractors via the Lebanese authorities, sheepherding licenses issued to Lebanese shepherds, kushans (land ownership certificates) in the name of Lebanese entrepreneurs, plus hundreds more documents which, the Lebanese government hopes, will show that the area is indeed under its control.



But one document is still missing: an official, legal certificate signed by the Syrian government declaring that it waives its ownership of the area.



The UN is not prepared to make do with the public declarations by Syria that the area is Lebanese. Israel conquered the land from Syria; it appears as Syrian territory on UN maps and so, says the UN, the area is Syrian.



Two weeks ago, Bashar Assad received further proof that there is no need for any document to testify to the "Syrianess" of the Shaba Farms.



The IAF's bombardment of a Syrian radar station in Dir El-Beider in response to a Hezbollah attack on Har Dov in which Sergeant Elad Litvak was killed, brought the goings on in Shaba right to Assad's door.



From that precise moment, Hezbollah's future response was rendered irrelevant. Assad, rather than Hezbollah, was the one expected to respond, and he admitted last week in an interview to the Spanish daily El Pais that Syria's response would not be a military one, so as not to play into Sharon's hands.



This, however, is only half an answer. Assad in fact, cannot leave it to Hezbollah to respond on his behalf, since the guerrilla organization, at least according to Assad, does not take its orders from Syria and is not fighting Syria's war in Lebanon.

The installation destroyed was a Syrian one, and a response by Hezbollah on Syria's behalf would mean that Syria's claims that its forces in Lebanon are there for the good of Lebanon are hollow ones. Moreover, Assad backs Hezbollah's activities against Israel on the condition that it not undermine the harmony he so aspires to in his relations with Lebanon.



Thus, even if Syria had the military capacity to cope with the repercussions of an attack against Israel, the above political reasons are enough to halt such an attack.



The political and military embarrassment that the Shaba Farms cause Syria is no less great than the headache it causes Israel.



If there is any strategic significance to control of the area, it is canceled out by the dangerous possibility that it will become a pretext for war, or that the Lebanese struggle to liberate it will once again ignite the northern border.



One could even hypothesize that the area would not be an obstacle if there were currently peace talks between Israel and Syria.



It is, therefore, possible that the Syrian attack on the radar installation created, without any prior intention, a meeting of interests between Israel and Syria, where both sides are interested in getting rid of the area, even if that means no negotiations on wider issues.



If Israel is convinced that the Shaba Farms do not contribute to its security, it could, for example, suggest to Syria, rather than to Lebanon, that it take them back in exchange for the Lebanese army deploying along its border with Israel.



Then Israel could say that it did not cave in to Hezbollah terrorism since it would hand the area over to Syria.



Syria would not be able to turn down such an offer, since if it did, it would then have to explain to Lebanon and other Arab countries why it did not take back what belongs to it rightfully.



The Lebanese government would no longer be able to use the excuse that the Israel Defense Forces if still occupying Lebanese territory to further stall its military deployment along the border.



Syria would be left to argue with Lebanon over the actual ownership of the area, but that would no longer be Israel's business.



Moreover, Hezbollah's pretext for its continued military operations in Lebanon would be pulled out from under it. Such advantages far outweigh those associated with holding onto the area.



The only issue that remains is that of setting a political precedent, namely that Israel would withdraw from occupied Syrian territory, without broader negotiations, something which could be interpretted as a pullback without any apposition.



But this is no precedent. Israel withdrew from Syrian territory after the 1973 Yom Kippur War, it withdrew from south Lebanon without an agreement, and it still holds the most important playing card to force negotiations with Syria - the Golan Heights.



The Shaba Farms can be spared.

[Gerry]

The issue the Israelis are making IS that Shebaa Farms does not belong to Lebanon. The U.N. says it originally belonged to Syria and that the French demarcation lines are not clear as to whether it rightly belongs to Syria or Lebanon. The majority living there are Lebanese. So IF there were a legitimate conflict, that conflict would be between Lebanon and Syria. But Syria has deeded it to Lebanon and couldn;t care less. So the real issue here is WHY is Israel there? Why does it insist that it has a right to be there, while it has NO rights. PERIOD. An invading power has NO rights. The rights belong to the victims and the rightful owners of the land. and since it never belonged to Israel, it has no right to be there. The fact is that they annexed it to the Golan Heights which they stole from Syria, which is illegal.(Violation of U.N. Resolution) So they can twist it every which way they like, the facts remain that Israel stands accused of 65 U.N.violations of international law and that does not include the 33 the U.S. vetoed. So, THEY (Israelis) have NO leg to stand on. And they are NOT going to give ANYTHING back to anyone.
Not GAZA, and certainly not the West Bank and you can forget about E.Jerusalem.
So, Israel is currently in Lebanon not because it wants its 2 kidnapped soldiers back (they are holding in excess of 900 Lebaneze prisoners for YEARS) So far it has cost about 88 Israeli lives, and they are destroying the whole of Lebanon......Now when you hear from reputable sources that this invasion was in the planning over a year ago, then the issue of the 2 kidnapped IDF soldiers is nothing but a ruse. The real issue is water and Israel intends to occupy and annex Lebanon as well and they will consider anyone of its citizens that resists this take over as a terrorist.

If Israel wishes to remain an independent country, it needs to be defeated IMMEDIATELY.
They are a rogue nation...they talk continuously about the hatred of the Arabs towards them while they very carefully remain silent about their illegal occupation. They speak in terms of retaliation against attacks they encounter on foreign soil, but the reasons for these attacks is not any hatred by the Palestinians but the direct result of Israel's brutal and very illegal occupation.
Israel does not want anyone to know that a very large segment of Israelis are against the Palestinian occupation. They marginalize the numerous groups that openly defy Israeli policy. They marginalize the open revolt by IDF pilots who refuse to fly over occupied territory and participate in any of the bombing. Rather than charging them with a crime, for that would create media attention, they are simply relieved of duty. Israel has very succesfully connected 9/11 to the Middle East Palestinian conflict which a traumatized America bought into. They abused the memory of all those people who so tragically died in NY, Washington and PA in order to justify more brutal attacks on the Palestinians. Ethnic cleansing is a war crime. israel has engaged in in for years and it is currently engaged in it in Lebanon. Until recently Israel has succeeded in shutting people up by calling any criticism anti-semitism. And the American media being totally under their control parrots them. As Robert Firsk says..."they keep throwing this "anti-semitism around and pretty soon it'll become respectable" Of course there are real anti-semites who thrive on burning down synagogues and destroy Jewish cemetaries...We need to knwo the difference.