It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature

[gaiacomm]

http://www.masada2000.org/yassin.html


Hey...there is a war going on! Remember?

[jayreynolds]

WTF?
Next thing these chemmies will be claiming Ben and Jerry's are
in on the conspiracy. This looks to me like a small business making
custom optics, but some chemmie probably input barium and flouride into a google and saw this come up. Morons.

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002069.html

yep-
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Barium+Fluoride&btnG=Search

"Barium fluoride is grown by vacuum Stockbarger technique in diameters up to about 150mm. Unlike CaF2, BaF2 is not found in the native state and all material must be synthesised chemically making BaF2 relatively expensive to produce. Barium fluoride cleaves easily and is highly susceptible to thermal shock."
http://www.crystran.co.uk/baf2data.htm

"Crystran is a young company with a wealth of experience. As a part of a large international chemical company we spent more than 200 cumulative years working with specialised optical materials. Collectively we had overseen the manufacture of thousands of crystals and managed several large contracts in the USA, Japan and at the European research facility at CERN in Geneva.

All this proved to be a good start in December 1993 when we continued to trade under our own ownership, and today we occupy a factory with 5,800 sq ft of manufacturing space with 14 employees including graduates in chemistry, physics and quality assurance. Our customer base is global and includes some of the largest organisations in the world."
http://www.crystran.co.uk/about.htm

So, we have 14 people in a building 60 feet wide by 100 ft long who can make barium flouride crystals for use in optical instruments. Leave it to chemmies desperate for a 'breakthrough' to spin it into something big.
Morons.

[gaiacomm]

Its amazing how a toilet designer can have so much knowledge of chemtrails and be so sure. Never published a paper but can tell you which way waste flows down a pipe to the ocean. Jay designs equipment that ads waste to the environment. He designs sewer equipment that dumps waste into the ocean for the fish to feed for the humans to consume, for the humans to get sick and die.

Jay gets paid to design waste equipment that eventually kills people over time. So the idiots follow this person who depends on the internet for power and has never been to a library since school and his wife Karen does not know of his cyberjunkie diease.

Jay taunts people to play with him because he is so lonely and alone and needs the comapny of us all to make him feel whole again and gain his manhood back.

Just think, Jays toilets on ships are dumping waste into your drinking water and food chain.

He should be fined by the federal government for contributing to the damaging of the environment and be sued by the families of the people that died as a result of his toilets which carries the dieases to the sea!

And, arrested and placed in prison for his environmental crimes.

I am sure that there is a lawyer somewhere that can create a case based on this type info and file a class action lawsuit to take jays house, farm, and designer toilets in his garage. Ths will of course drive poor Karen away and maybe find another man that will love her like she always wanted but could not quite get from Jay. And his children the same...daddy just did not give us the love we needed!

[gaiacomm]

Readers:

Jay and his group have nothing to do but to fill up space on this forum website with opinion, cut and paste from other sources on the Internet and other public available data.

They are not scientists but wantabe’s in this chemtrail arena.

Scientists are too busy with ego and grants than to place them in a forum that will eliminate their private and federal funds for their respective projects.

The few that make claim only skate around the issue.

There is too much at risk to expose the entire truth of the matter and Jay and others take advantage and exploit it to no end!

They know that chemtrails exist and what causes contrails.

If you all are that gullible to be sucked in to Jay’s world of despair and the other cowards that hide with him then you all deserve the anguish and insult that comes with Jay and his group.

You allow Jay to poke at your egos and that is what he relies on.

Jay designs toilets for ships; he can tell which direction waste goes down a pipe.

But for chemtrails he has no further access than anyone else.

Halva is a socialist who champions causes for mankind and has a way to go for total success, but at least he honestly tries.

Chemtrails are not caused by billions of jets dumping fuel in the sky. Chemtrails is a small part of the whole. There are more emissions dumped in the air from cars and factories than all the aircraft in the world. The entire industrial system needs to be changed in order to stop the chemtrail activity. The contrails also contribute to the environment. So exposure of the facts is already in front of you, just take a breath and see.

It will take an act of congress to change the system or a collective revolution manned by the peoples of the world.

So until then, nothing will change until you change yourself, first!

[gaiacomm]

http://www.masada2000.org/yassin.html


Hey...there is a war going on! Remember?

[gaiacomm]

http://www.masada2000.org/yassin.html

[liakopoulos]

DEAR GAIACOMM, IF JAY IS BEING EMBARASED , HERE IS MY OFFER. DEAR JAY COME TO ELLAS (GREECE) .ELLAS MEANS IN ANCIENT GREEK "THE LAND OF LIGHT" . EL MEANS BRIGHT,FULL OF LIGHT, AND LAS MEANS ROCK, LAND...... HOW ABOUT IT JAY? ARE YOU IN FOR A RIDE? THERE IS A SECOND OFFER... MY OFFER. EVERYTHING PAID. YOU SAID THAT PROFESSOR ZEREFOS WOULD TEACH US A LESSON. I TOLD YOU THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW ZEREFOS. HE IS ONE OF THE WORLDS LEADING SCIENTISTS IN ATMOSPHERE PHYSICS. YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT HE DOESN'T AGREE WITH YOU AT ALL. HERE IS THE DEAL: IF YOU ARE RIGHT EVERYTHING WILL STILL BE FREE AND PAID FOR YOU, BUT IF YOU ARE WRONG........WE'LL THINK OF SOMETHIKG...WHAT DO YOU SAY JAY ARE YOU IN FOR "THE" RIDE? THE MOMENT OF TRUTH CAME FOR LITTLE JAY........... I THINK I'M READING YOUR MIND, I CAN SEE RIGHT THROUGH YOU ..... VERY POOR EXCUSE....KAREN DOESN'T ALLOW YOU TO TRAVEL ABROAD! THE RACISTS AND THE COMUNISTS WILL EAT YOU ALIVE ..... POOR JAY.... WE GOT YOU CORNERED.....YOU ARE FINISHED.....

[liakopoulos]

DEAR GAIACOMM ,THERE IS A BIG PROBLEM WITH JAY'S APPLICATION. HOW SHALL HE APPLY? AS A TOILET DESIGNER, OR AS AN ONNION SPECIALIST? WE GOTTA FIGER IT OUT........

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

With your big mouth why not take the invitation and go to Greece.

I forgot, you are only a god on the internet! Don't forget to pay your DSL bill.

Jay you are finished here so go away!

[gaiacomm]

http://www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/m-mpg.asx

[gaiacomm]

http://www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/dp.asx

[gaiacomm]

This is what is going on while we play on this forum!

http://www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/kill-coll.asx

[Bonehead9]

for smeagol and gollum:

from: Monty Python


Lovely spam, wonderful spa-a-m,
Lovely spam, wonderful S Spam,
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am,
Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am,
SPA-A-A-A-A-A-A-AM,
SPA-A-A-A-A-A-A-AM,
LOVELY SPAM, LOVELY SPAM,
LOVELY SPAM, LOVELY SPAM,
LOVELY SPA-A-A-A-AM...
SPA-AM, SPA-AM, SPA-AM, SPA-A-A-AM!

[Bonehead9]

Smeagol and Gollum. Why is it you two show up at the same time? Do you sometimes have trouble remembering which on-line character you are playing at the moment?

Even Halva has finally started to wake up to the fact that you are playing him for a fool.

Let’s see: Smeagol is the so-called power behind a company that seems to produce nothing but self submitted press releases, and Gollum is a Greek Fascist wannabe.

How many other IDs do you use?

[gaiacomm]

Smeagol and Gollum. Why is it you two show up at the same time? Do you sometimes have trouble remembering which on-line character you are playing at the moment?

Even Halva has finally started to wake up to the fact that you are playing him for a fool.

Let’s see: Smeagol is the so-called power behind a company that seems to produce nothing but self submitted press releases, and Gollum is a Greek Fascist wannabe.

How many other IDs do you use?


As many as I can!

[gaiacomm]

http://www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/m-mpg.asx


Hey, is that you?

[Bonehead9]

Hey, Halva, your buddy Mech didn’t quite get this deleted all of the way.



Originally posted by :Halva

I no longer believe that 'Gaiacomm' corresponds to a particular individual person as opposed to a name being used by a number of different persons.

You are close but you have it backward, It is not a bunch of people using a single ID, it is a single poster using multiple IDs here.

[gaiacomm]

Hey, Halva, your buddy Mech didn’t quite get this deleted all of the way.



Originally posted by :Halva

I no longer believe that 'Gaiacomm' corresponds to a particular individual person as opposed to a name being used by a number of different persons.

You are close but you have it backward, It is not a bunch of people using a single ID, it is a single poster using multiple IDs here.


Is this you?
http://www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/m-mpg.asx

[Bonehead9]

Nice try, but I have no intention of following any link you post.

[gaiacomm]

Nice try, but I have no intention of following any link you post.


COWARD!

[liakopoulos]

TO SHITHEAD9: GO TO www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/kill-coll.asx YOU ARE NEXT

[liakopoulos]

HEY JAY, DON'T WORRY, YOU CAN STAY IN GREECE AS MY GUEST AND YOU WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED AS AN ILLEGAL EMIGRANT WHILE WORKING AT ONNION FARMS.

[liakopoulos]

YOU ARE FINISHED ,YOU ARE THROUGH .........,BUT DON'T GO AWAY ...YOU ARE VERY AMUSING.....

[airtankerpilot]

TO SHITHEAD9: GO TO www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/kill-coll.asx YOU ARE NEXT

So are you calling for his killing, or are you threatening to do it yourself?

Either way, you are a sick person.

[liakopoulos]

TO ATP: I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO AND YOU HAVE NO SENSE OF HUMOR .

[liakopoulos]

BUT ON SECOND THOUGHT AND CONSIDERING OF DOIN' IT MY SELF......HEY ATP DO YOU HAVE A PARTICULAR SONG IN MIND.....YOU KNOW ...TO LIVE LIKE IT.

[gaiacomm]

war!

[liakopoulos]

I BELIEVE THAT JAY IS TALKIN' IT OVER WITH KAREN......OR PRETENDS TO.. BECAUSE HE WILL NEVER DARE TO SHOW UP. LIKE I SAID BEFORE ...HE'S ALL SHOW BUT NO GO!

[gaiacomm]

http://www.ogrish.com/index2.php?include=list_include.php&cat=8


See the US contractors and others or war!

And chemtrails is so important?

[liakopoulos]

HEY GAIA TALKIN' OF WAR ,DO YOU KNOW IF JAY HAS ANY WAR-TOILET DESIGNS? THEY "ARE" GOING TO NEED THEM.

[gaiacomm]

This thread is finished!

[jayreynolds]

Dear Readers,
we are fast approaching 10,000 page views on this thread. I understand
this has been the most popular and longest lasting thread ever at ariannaonline.

For the chemmies, it as been a terrible defeat witnessed 10,000 times over. For the truth, a great victory all the way. Even the current spam tactics on use to try and kill the thread are futile. They underscore the desperation the chemmie side feels at having their flesh ripped off to reveal nothing but the rubber-kneed chemmie wastrels sent out to fight bulldozers of truth. They never had a chance, not by anyone else's doing, but by choice and consent they came unarmed and were massacred..

To all the chemmies who have participated here, and all who were just voyeurs:

Know this- this thread amounts to a how-to-do-it lesson for all future debunkers. It will remain archived for reference and will be touted time and time again for insights into just how weak you are when open debate is allowed. You are all losers, bigtime, and now it's available for anyone to see, and learn from, suckers.

Let's try the infamous questions again, shall we, now right up to seventy pages going unanswered. SMT, got any guts yet?Jay
==============================
Which of the following is true:
1.) Chemtrails cause global warming, contrails prevent it
2.) Chemtrails prevent global warming, contrails cause it
3.) Chemtrails and contrails cause global warming
4.) Chemtrails and contrails prevent global warming
5.) Chemtrails are a hoax, and contrails may eventually contribute to global warming
6.) It doesn't really matter because the Earth is going into a cooling cycle (which will no doubt be blamed on geo-engineering / chemtrails

And lest we forget, the ten deadly questions left unanswered!

1.Do you have a background in a technical field? If so, what is it? If not, whom do you consider to have such a background who would state the case for "chemtrails" being a case of "geoengineering"? If no one with such a background exists after five years of interest(enough time for a baccalaureate degree to be earned) why not?

2.Which resource do you depend upon for accurate, sound scientific informaton about "chemtrails"? If none can be relied upon, why not?

3.Several meetings were held this past year which were unparalleled opportunities for you to present papers or exhibits to distinguished scientists in fields relevant to "aerosol research" and "aviation emissions". I have examined the proceedings and found no evidence that such a presentation was made. Did you, or any other"chemtrail" interest person present at these conferences? If not, why not?

4. What is your personal definition of 'chemtrails"?

5. What are ordinary contrails, how are they formed, and what determines whether they persist, or not?

6. In what way are alleged "chemtrails" different from ordinary contrails?

7.What is the best scientific proof available that "chemtrails" are anything other than ordinary contrails?

8.Could you please direct our attention to a photo of an
archetypical "chemtrail", one which you would attribute to "geoengineering"?

9. halva cites William Thomas in his case for "chemtrails". William Thomas has stated the following: "the formation of condensation trails requires temperatures lower than about minus 76 F". Is that statement correct, and if not, do you personally consider Thomas an accurate source of information?

10. What is your claim about the purpose of "chemtrails, what are they for?_________________

[gaiacomm]

Its amazing how a toilet designer can have so much knowledge of chemtrails and be so sure. Never published a paper but can tell you which way waste flows down a pipe to the ocean. Jay designs equipment that ads waste to the environment. He designs sewer equipment that dumps waste into the ocean for the fish to feed for the humans to consume, for the humans to get sick and die.

Jay gets paid to design waste equipment that eventually kills people over time. So the idiots follow this person who depends on the internet for power and has never been to a library since school and his wife Karen does not know of his cyberjunkie diease.

Jay taunts people to play with him because he is so lonely and alone and needs the comapny of us all to make him feel whole again and gain his manhood back.

Just think, Jays toilets on ships are dumping waste into your drinking water and food chain.

He should be fined by the federal government for contributing to the damaging of the environment and be sued by the families of the people that died as a result of his toilets which carries the dieases to the sea!

And, arrested and placed in prison for his environmental crimes.

I am sure that there is a lawyer somewhere that can create a case based on this type info and file a class action lawsuit to take jays house, farm, and designer toilets in his garage. Ths will of course drive poor Karen away and maybe find another man that will love her like she always wanted but could not quite get from Jay. And his children the same...daddy just did not give us the love we needed!

[gaiacomm]

Readers:

Jay and his group have nothing to do but to fill up space on this forum website with opinion, cut and paste from other sources on the Internet and other public available data.

They are not scientists but wantabe’s in this chemtrail arena.

Scientists are too busy with ego and grants than to place them in a forum that will eliminate their private and federal funds for their respective projects.

The few that make claim only skate around the issue.

There is too much at risk to expose the entire truth of the matter and Jay and others take advantage and exploit it to no end!

They know that chemtrails exist and what causes contrails.

If you all are that gullible to be sucked in to Jay’s world of despair and the other cowards that hide with him then you all deserve the anguish and insult that comes with Jay and his group.

You allow Jay to poke at your egos and that is what he relies on.

Jay designs toilets for ships; he can tell which direction waste goes down a pipe.

But for chemtrails he has no further access than anyone else.

Halva is a socialist who champions causes for mankind and has a way to go for total success, but at least he honestly tries.

Chemtrails are not caused by billions of jets dumping fuel in the sky. Chemtrails is a small part of the whole. There are more emissions dumped in the air from cars and factories than all the aircraft in the world. The entire industrial system needs to be changed in order to stop the chemtrail activity. The contrails also contribute to the environment. So exposure of the facts is already in front of you, just take a breath and see.

It will take an act of congress to change the system or a collective revolution manned by the peoples of the world.

So until then, nothing will change until you change yourself, first!

[gaiacomm]

Jay for you!


http://www.ogrish.com/index2.php?include=list_include.php&cat=8

[gaiacomm]

Jay, this one to!

GO TO www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/kill-coll.asx

[gaiacomm]

http://www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/m-mpg.asx

[gaiacomm]

http://www.dafka.org/ContentFiles/videos/dp.asx

[Yaak]

-Chemmies-

They don't know who, what or why.

They just know.

Proof? They don't need no steenkin' proof!


:lol:

[Bonehead9]

This thread is finished!


Aww, are you quiting?

Too bad you can't answer Jay's questions, Coward

[lynn george]

Jay said" you have failed to respond to my basic questions about contrails and "chemtrails".

SmT- Exactly. And you have failed to mention even ONE item from my post. Standing there "shouting" that people should address your riduculous straw man "questions" is not worthy of my comment. Try asking ONE thing REASONABLE. Then be prepared to ANSWER not AVOID the question or reply given back to you. You're not the only person in the world, and CERTAINLY not even remotely the most informed on this board. Show a little courtesy and intelligence.



J said "-you have failed to respond to my suggestion that you contact Dr. Leonard Cole, whom you cite as 'evidence' of past government experimentation."

SmT- Correct again. So what's your point?



J said "-You have, above, described exactly the scene I see played out in the sky above me, for I live in northern Arkansas near the Missouri border. You are likely no more than 100 miles away from me, and we could easily be seeing exactly the same contrails. "


SmT- I doubt that very seriously. As you occasionally show the ability to actually address someone elses ideas other than your own, I imagine even you would be able to discern the intense "bombardment" by these dozens of planes (or passes) by jets INTENTIONALLY releasing HUGE WHITE SPREADING trails that look like WHITE BILLOWING SMOKE coming from these planes while at the same time planes can be flying through the area and even ABOVE the chemtrails, leaving NO trail themselves, or only a seconds long one. BUt then again I'm not really explaing this to you J. Just to whomever might be reading, as I fully suspect you already know this. Or perhaps if I am mistaken, then I have given you entirely too much credit.





J said "The difference between us is that I have actually identified the planes flying using Flight Explorer! What I found is that they are almost all ordinary commercial flights. What military planes I see leave exactly the same contrails as the commercial traffic does."


SmT- Actually I see many other differences but I won't go into them right now. I already explained in my above post what I and tens if not hundreds of thousands of other people are seeing in some cases here twice to three times a week. Instead of ignoring what I posted why not offer an intelligent reply offering perhaps some other explanation of what we're all seeing. I'm open to other possibilities if they make sense, but as of now I am forced to conclude it is NOT the CONDITIONS in the atmosphere that cause one plane to leave NO trail and another right next to it or even below it leaving a huge white billowing trails, it is rather the EXHAUST of the said planes. And the manner in which these are laid down as I described in DETAIL above coincides too well with the geoengineering cries from big business to crate a "sky shield" for planet Earth rather than to address possible root causes. But CERTAINLY feel free to disagree and entirely ignore the parts of my post that are "inconvenient".



J said"I challenge you to use Flight Explorer, to reproduce Thermit's study, and document your findings."


SmT- I may. And I challenge you to start engaging rather than running from what people are ACTUALLY seeing and Geoengineering.




Jay PROCLAIMED:
If you do you will truly become SHOW ME TRUTH'

If you fail, you will become SHOW ME FAILURE[/quote]


SmT- J, that's just plain ignorant. How about showing us ALL a little common understanding.



SmT :roll:

[gaiacomm]

Readers:

Its expected the type answer from ones that are ingnorant of their own ignorance!

Well Gaia you seem to be a sucker for punishment,and I'm bored ,so in light of my boredom and your stupidity
in underestimating my supposed ....as you say,Ignorance lets debate something with meaning.

1) What is your motives and what drives you to keep promoting the chemtrail hoax......?
2)Geo-engineering is not a hoax,What is the goal of geo-engineering...?
3)What part of the political spectrum do you currently reside....?
4) Would you call yourself an activist Gaia......?
5) Where are your whisle blowers.....5 years and no whistle blowers.
6) Who is reaping great profit from this hoax......?
7) What group Politically has everything to gain and nothing to lose by this hoax.
8)Why is there not one Scientist willing to go that extra mile to prove or disprove this hoax....?
9)Why in the last 3 years has every anti-nwo/survivalist/etc.....etc....etc...
picked up on the chemtrails hoax and now use them as a main theme of their hate sites......and their anti-establishment propaganda,but when questioned .....run back to their insulated enviroments and hide from scrutiny....as Halva has done time and time again.......?


10) here is the last and final question.....why do extreme chemmies run from debunkers and act like fascist little hitlers when they are challenged.......?


Answer all of these questions Truthfully.........Or are you going to take the Easy way out and run to the hills like Halva and so many others have done............In other words ......do you have any balls to stand by your convictions......to the end.......or are you just like The Mech's and Halva's of the world..... all mouth no brains.......?[/list]




Answer:
) What is your motives and what drives you to keep promoting the chemtrail hoax......? I HAVE NO MOTIVE OR HIDDEN AGENDA, I JUST KNOW AS A PHYSICIST THAT CHEMTRAILS CAN BE CAUSED BY SOME OF THE CLAIMS OF THE ADVOCATES. IT IS NOT A HOAX BUT A WELL PLANNED EXAMPLE OF HOW SCIENCE AND BUSINESS CAN DO WHATEVER THEY PLEASE AND IF MISTAKES ARE MADE SO WHAT...SUE THEM!
2)Geo-engineering is not a hoax,What is the goal of geo-engineering...? TO PROMOTE SCIENCES THAT DEAL WITH CHANGING THE ENVIRONMENT TO FIT THE NEEDS OF FEW AND NOT THE MANY. AND A METHOD TO PROMOTE NEW TECHNOLOGIES TO EITHER CURE THE ENVIRONMENT SLOW IT DOWN OR EVEN CHANGE IT PERMANTLEY.
3)What part of the political spectrum do you currently reside....? I BELIEVE IN FREEDOM FOR ALL PEOPLE NO MATTER WHO THEY ARE...PATRIOT. WOMEN ARE EQUAL AS WELL!
4) Would you call yourself an activist Gaia......? YES
5) Where are your whisle blowers.....5 years and no whistle blowers. EITHER IN JAIL, PAID OFF, OR DEAD!
6) Who is reaping great profit from this hoax......? EVRYONE ON ALL SIDES!
7) What group Politically has everything to gain and nothing to lose by this hoax. NO GROUP...THEY ALL WORK COLLECTIVLEY!
8)Why is there not one Scientist willing to go that extra mile to prove or disprove this hoax....? BECAUSE OF EGO AND POSTION WITHIN THE ACADEMIA.
9)Why in the last 3 years has every anti-nwo/survivalist/etc.....etc....etc...
picked up on the chemtrails hoax and now use them as a main theme of their hate sites......and their anti-establishment propaganda,but when questioned .....run back to their insulated enviroments and hide from scrutiny....as Halva has done time and time again.......? I DON'T KNOW, ASK THEM!


10) here is the last and final question.....why do extreme chemmies run from debunkers and act like fascist little hitlers when they are challenged.......? ITS NATURAL FOR ALL PEOPLE TO BE DEFENSIVE AND SCARED OF TRUTH. BUT THAT IS TRUE FOR BOTH SIDES NOW IS IT NOT?

THE ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS ARE MY OPINION ONLY BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE AND FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE.

I HOPE THIS BEGINS A NEW BRIDGE TO EXCHANGE INFORMATION WITH EACH OTHER TO HELP US BOTH UNDERSTAND!

[gaiacomm]

ah, yes 18 pages of wishy-washy from the chemmie squashys.
But wait, there is something they can't deal with, something they don't want to deal with, something they dare not deal with:

I'm reposting the most deadly questions ever to be asked of any "chemtrail" believers. These questions are so deadly that none
dare touch even one, lest their whole balloon burst!

1.Do you have a background in a technical field? If not, whom do you consider to have such a background who would state the case for "chemtrails" being a case of "geoengineering"? If no one with such a background exists after five years of interest(enough time for a baccalaureate degree to be earned) why not?

2.Which resource do you depend upon for accurate, sound scientific informaton about "chemtrails"? If none can be relied upon, why not?

3.Several meetings were held this past year which were unparalleled opportunities for you to present papers or exhibits to distinguished scientists in fields relevant to "aerosol research" and "aviation emissions". I have examined the proceedings and found no evidence that such a presentation was made. Did you, or any other"chemtrail" interest person present at these conferences? If not, why not?

4. What is your personal definition of 'chemtrails"?

5. What are ordinary contrails, how are they formed, and what determines whether they persist, or not?

6. In what way are alleged "chemtrails" different from ordinary contrails?

7.What is the best scientific proof available that "chemtrails" are anything other than ordinary contrails?

8.Could you please direct our attention to a photo of an
archetypical "chemtrail", one which you would attribute to "geoengineering"?

9. halva cites William Thomas in his case for "chemtrails". William Thomas has stated the following: "the formation of condensation trails requires temperatures lower than about minus 76 F". Is that statement correct, and if not, do you personally consider Thomas an accurate source of information?




Jay:

I will attempt to answer your questions, and then you go AWAY or I will have to tell on you!


1.Do you have a background in a technical field?YES, PHYSICS If not, whom do you consider to have such a background who would state the case for "chemtrails" being a case of "geoengineering"? MANY SCIENTIST IF THEY COULD REMAIN CLOAKEDIf no one with such a background exists after five years of interest(enough time for a baccalaureate degree to be earned) why not? THERE ARE MANY SCIENTIST THAT WOULD SUPPORT IF ONE WOULD COME FORWARD!

2.Which resource do you depend upon for accurate, sound scientific informaton about "chemtrails"? VARIOUS WEBSITES AND CLASSIFIED KNOWLEDGE If none can be relied upon, why not? MOST OF THE INFO YOU SEEK IS CLASSIFIED!...NSA!!!! AND OTHERS.

3.Several meetings were held this past year which were unparalleled opportunities for you to present papers or exhibits to distinguished scientists in fields relevant to "aerosol research" and "aviation emissions". I have examined the proceedings and found no evidence that such a presentation was made. Did you, or any other"chemtrail" interest person present at these conferences?NO, BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT A FORUM FOR THAT If not, why not? BECAUSE THE EVIDENCE IS CLASSIFIED!

4. What is your personal definition of 'chemtrails"? A IMBALANCE OF THE BIOSPHERE CAUSED BY MANMADE EMISSIONS AND INJECTIONS BY CHEMICALS AND OTHER BY PRODUCT EXHAUSTS INTO THE AIR, LAND AND SEA.

5. What are ordinary contrails, how are they formed, and what determines whether they persist, or not? DO A SEARCH ON THE INTERNET!

6. In what way are alleged "chemtrails" different from ordinary contrails? THE CHEMICAL STRING IS DIFFERENT.

7.What is the best scientific proof available that "chemtrails" are anything other than ordinary contrails? WHAT IS PUBLIC AND WHAT IS NOT!

8.Could you please direct our attention to a photo of an
archetypical "chemtrail", one which you would attribute to "geoengineering"? NO KNOWLEDGE OF THAT..PLEASE PROVIDE!

9. halva cites William Thomas in his case for "chemtrails". William Thomas has stated the following: "the formation of condensation trails requires temperatures lower than about minus 76 F". Is that statement correct, and if not, do you personally consider Thomas an accurate source of information? NO MORE THAN YOU BEING A SOURCE!
_________________

[gaiacomm]

This thread is finished!


Aww, are you quiting?

Too bad you can't answer Jay's questions, Coward

Not until you and Jay do!

[Yaak]

Lynn, you haven't been paying attention.

Just because planes look like they are at the same altitude does not mean that they are. There may be several thousand feet altitude difference.

Even though the sky all looks the same, it isn't. Winds, temperatures and relative humidity all vary at different altitudes. Not only that but sometimes these conditions vary at different areas at the same altitude. The air is continuously moving and changing. There are waves of air up there.

Typically, though, there are different layers. Have you ever seen a temperature inversion over a large city? From a distance you can actually see the line of division between the layers of atmosphere.

Now, since upper atmospheric conditions vary, jet contrails in the same sky are going to vary. Does this make sense so far?

[Yaak]

70 pages and 50 of it is SPAM by gaiacomm. Typical, childish chemmie behavior.

[lynn george]

Jay said" you have failed to respond to my basic questions about contrails and "chemtrails".

SmT- Exactly. And you have failed to mention even ONE item from my post. Standing there "shouting" that people should address your riduculous straw man "questions" is not worthy of my comment. Try asking ONE thing REASONABLE. Then be prepared to ANSWER not AVOID the question or reply given back to you. You're not the only person in the world, and CERTAINLY not even remotely the most informed on this board. Show a little courtesy and intelligence.



J said "-you have failed to respond to my suggestion that you contact Dr. Leonard Cole, whom you cite as 'evidence' of past government experimentation."

SmT- Correct again. So what's your point?



J said "-You have, above, described exactly the scene I see played out in the sky above me, for I live in northern Arkansas near the Missouri border. You are likely no more than 100 miles away from me, and we could easily be seeing exactly the same contrails. "


SmT- I doubt that very seriously. As you occasionally show the ability to actually address someone elses ideas other than your own, I imagine even you would be able to discern the intense "bombardment" by these dozens of planes (or passes) by jets INTENTIONALLY releasing HUGE WHITE SPREADING trails that look like WHITE BILLOWING SMOKE coming from these planes while at the same time planes can be flying through the area and even ABOVE the chemtrails, leaving NO trail themselves, or only a seconds long one. BUt then again I'm not really explaing this to you J. Just to whomever might be reading, as I fully suspect you already know this. Or perhaps if I am mistaken, then I have given you entirely too much credit.





J said "The difference between us is that I have actually identified the planes flying using Flight Explorer! What I found is that they are almost all ordinary commercial flights. What military planes I see leave exactly the same contrails as the commercial traffic does."


SmT- Actually I see many other differences but I won't go into them right now. I already explained in my above post what I and tens if not hundreds of thousands of other people are seeing in some cases here twice to three times a week. Instead of ignoring what I posted why not offer an intelligent reply offering perhaps some other explanation of what we're all seeing. I'm open to other possibilities if they make sense, but as of now I am forced to conclude it is NOT the CONDITIONS in the atmosphere that cause one plane to leave NO trail and another right next to it or even below it leaving a huge white billowing trails, it is rather the EXHAUST of the said planes. And the manner in which these are laid down as I described in DETAIL above coincides too well with the geoengineering cries from big business to crate a "sky shield" for planet Earth rather than to address possible root causes. But CERTAINLY feel free to disagree and entirely ignore the parts of my post that are "inconvenient".



J said"I challenge you to use Flight Explorer, to reproduce Thermit's study, and document your findings."


SmT- I may. And I challenge you to start engaging rather than running from what people are ACTUALLY seeing and Geoengineering.




Jay PROCLAIMED:
If you do you will truly become SHOW ME TRUTH'

If you fail, you will become SHOW ME FAILURE


SmT- J, that's just plain ignorant. How about showing us ALL a little common understanding.



SmT :roll:[/quote]

[jayreynolds]

SMT wrote:
"Standing there "shouting" that people should address your riduculous straw man "questions" is not worthy of my comment. Try asking ONE thing REASONABLE."

Ok, so answer the questions one at a time if you like, 'lynn george'.
You seem braver than most chemmies, maybe you will be 'the one'.
Go get 'em, girl.

SMT wrote:
"J said "-you have failed to respond to my suggestion that you contact Dr. Leonard Cole, whom you cite as 'evidence' of past government experimentation."
SmT- Correct again. So what's your point?"

The point is that I personally checked out your reference- Dr. Cole.
He doesn't believe in chemtrails. You lose.



J said "-You have, above, described exactly the scene I see played out in the sky above me, for I live in northern Arkansas near the Missouri border. You are likely no more than 100 miles away from me, and we could easily be seeing exactly the same contrails. "


SmT wrote: "- I doubt that very seriously. As you occasionally show the ability to actually address someone elses ideas other than your own, I imagine even you would be able to discern the intense "bombardment" by these dozens of planes (or passes) by jets INTENTIONALLY releasing HUGE WHITE SPREADING trails that look like WHITE BILLOWING SMOKE coming from these planes while at the same time planes can be flying through the area and even ABOVE the chemtrails, leaving NO trail themselves, or only a seconds long one. BUt then again I'm not really explaing this to you J. Just to whomever might be reading, as I fully suspect you already know this. Or perhaps if I am mistaken, then I have given you entirely too much credit."

Yes, I identified planes making that sort of contrails many times. They were found to be normal contrails.


J said"I challenge you to use Flight Explorer, to reproduce Thermit's study, and document your findings."


SmT- I may. And I challenge you to start engaging rather than running from what people are ACTUALLY seeing and Geoengineering.

If you don't use Flight Explorer, you are not interested in the truth, you are a fraud who doesn't even want to identify the planes, and a sheople who just believes whatever someone puts in their ear. The choice is yours-
stay a chemmie and get sheared, or pull the wool off your own eyes and find the truth for yourself. The truth is so damn close(only six miles overhead), you'd be a fool to not want to try, and abigger fool to stay chemmie after you find what most chemtrail promoters want you to believe. But, don't trust me, write to Thermit himself, I'm sure he'll help you get set up with Flight Explorer:
http://www.avweb.com/fe/index.html

[lynn george]

J said- "Ok, so answer the questions one at a time if you like, 'lynn george'.
You seem braver than most chemmies, maybe you will be 'the one'.
Go get 'em, girl."

SmT- Jay, if you knew how funny I think you are, you would be laughing too. I don't mean this really as an insult, but please dispense with the ego. Let's just have a rational dialogue.


J pretended"The point is that I personally checked out your reference- Dr. Cole.
He doesn't believe in chemtrails. You lose."


SmT- J, please get a grip, what are you talking about "you lose". Cole presented Senate testimoney on DECADES of chemtrail programs. If you prefer to call them "biologically enhanced" contrails or perhaps some other term you come up with go ahead. Biological agents are being reported sprayed under the term 'chemtrails' as one can find on hundreds of websites that now monitor these programs.

J said"Yes, I identified planes making that sort of contrails many times. They were found to be normal contrails."


Smt-Well I have witnessed routinely both normal contrails and chemtrail applications. I hope some day you are able to witness these rather common events, now being reported by tens if not hundreds of thousands of citizens worldwide.


J said"If you don't use Flight Explorer, you are not interested in the truth, you are a fraud who doesn't even want to identify the planes, and a sheople who just believes whatever someone puts in their ear. The choice is yours-"

SmT- Really?



J said"stay a chemmie and get sheared, or pull the wool off your own eyes and find the truth for yourself. The truth is so damn close(only six miles overhead), you'd be a fool to not want to try, and abigger fool to stay chemmie after you find what most chemtrail promoters want you to believe. But, don't trust me, write to Thermit himself, I'm sure he'll help you get set up with Flight Explorer"
http://www.avweb.com/fe/index.html[/quote]


Smt- J- I think you must be smokin crack. Occasionally you appear rational, but often I think you are either heavily drugged or else having some type of episode. Weather modification is real just like testing with biological and chemical agents is real, being sprayed by planes above the masses for decades dispensing all sorts of chemicals and pathogens . Current mapping is real, geoengineering is real, HAARP is real, and I have to wonder if YOU are real?

SmT-

[halva]

The fact that Reynolds has been able to talk his nonsense for so long is a direct result of lack of exposure of this issue.

The lack of exposure has been even worse in Europe than in the U.S.

Exposure is now beginning.

Don't expect Reynolds to change his tune.

He will keep saying the same thing until he is carted away to prison or to a mental institution.

[lynn george]

Yaak said"Lynn, you haven't been paying attention."

SmT- You have provided nothing worth paying attention too. Just like J you appear to love the sound of your own keyboard.

Yaak said "Just because planes look like they are at the same altitude does not mean that they are. There may be several thousand feet altitude difference."

SmT- Yes they may be. And maybe not. Perhaps, just as many observers point out the plane at the lower altitude my be leaving the billowing white smokey spreading trail and the plane at the higher elavation is leaving no contrail. How do we explain this?



Yaak said"Even though the sky all looks the same, it isn't. Winds, temperatures and relative humidity all vary at different altitudes. Not only that but sometimes these conditions vary at different areas at the same altitude. The air is continuously moving and changing. There are waves of air up there."

Smt- I don't hink anyone's denying that. The types of questions observers are asking deal though rather with how after hours of solid blue sky with no clouds and only a few scattered regular jet traffic planes, can Dozens of commercial looking planes move in in what is CLEARLY to many observers an operation of spreading huge billowing spreading brilliant white smokey looking chemtrails, that cover the sky with a sort of translucent white-ish film that blocks out the sun and causes temperatures to drop. And how can planes leaving No contrails be seen above those leaving these huge billowing trails? And how are conditions right for huge expanding "contrails" in a clear blue sky with NO clouds ANYWHERE around, but yet such as today when we had lot's of clouds forming in the usual "boiling" patterns we had ZERO chemtrails ALL day long, and only had regular seconds long contrail vapor exhausts. These patterns are obvious to me. Choose to witness and believe what you want.




Yaak said"typically, though, there are different layers. Have you ever seen a temperature inversion over a large city? From a distance you can actually see the line of division between the layers of atmosphere.

SmT- Whatever you need to think Yaak. I came here to share real data and ideas.


Yaak "Now, since upper atmospheric conditions vary, jet contrails in the same sky are going to vary. Does this make sense so far?


SmT- Yes Yaak. Everything makes perfect sense. For someone, who on CTC admitted people have been experimented on and probably still are, and admitted barium applications and geoengineering experiments, as well as chemical and biological experiments, you sure seem to have an alter ego. What ever you think though. Only admit as much as you are comfortable with.

Regards,

SmT

[halva]

We are also still waiting for revelation of what the "payoff" was (his own words) for Reynolds to debunk chemtrails.

As you will remember, he proposed a deal to Sore Throat whereby he would provide this information.

Why not provide it anyway?

[lynn george]

We are also still waiting for revelation of what the "payoff" was (his own words) for Reynolds to debunk chemtrails.

As you will remember, he proposed a deal to Sore Throat whereby he would provide this information.

Why not provide it anyway?

Hey Halva,

So do you think we are in the company of "professional debunkers" or just "sceptics"? Seemed like if they were "professionals" they could have hired someone even more bent on spreading disinformation than the ones here?

WEll. I wonder what happens now if WE were to quit "spraying" chemicals into the atmosphere to try and mitigate man made damage to the Earths' atmosphere. Would the earth experience a sudden heat rise? Is this "sky shield" really working to keep temps down or perhaps U.V.? Are we like "junkies" hooked on these programs at least on"weather modification"? now to "maintain" weather "normalicy"? Can you imagine what happens when the proposed "geoengineered" *Sky Shield* can no longer be maintained. Does the Earth burn up? What do you think? How common is the chemtrailing over Greece now? WE have been now TWO FULL DAYS with ZERO chemtrails here in Mid Missouri at least directly overhead, but I noticed out to the east this evening that there were jets that apeared to be going back and forth building up a cloud bank. This is simply some sort of weather or climate modification or testing ocurring IMO nothing more ominous it would seem unless of cpourse there were health affects. And most likely with the chem programs that deal with encreased (or decreased) rainfall ( for perhaps *political*purposes) a desire to keep them secret as to also keep different jurisdictions from warring over water (rainfall) rights.

[lynn george]

The fact that Reynolds has been able to talk his nonsense for so long is a direct result of lack of exposure of this issue.

The lack of exposure has been even worse in Europe than in the U.S.

Exposure is now beginning.

Don't expect Reynolds to change his tune.

He will keep saying the same thing until he is carted away to prison or to a mental institution.

That's an excellent point Halva, has anyone been able yet to determine if in fact Reynolds posts are perhaps already originating from inside a mental hospital?

SmT :D

[liakopoulos]

YES INDEED... SOME OF YOU "ARE" SCEPTICS.. LIKE SHITHEAD9 FOR INSTANCE. ...WHAT A BRILIANT MIND...WHAT A PERSONALITY! AND HOW ABOUT JAY....WHAT A THINKER. HE OUTTHINKS HAMLET SOMETIMES WHEN DESIGNING HIS MASTERPIECES.(TOILETS I MEAN).

[liakopoulos]

I THINK THAT HALVA IS AT LAST GETTING THE PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOIN' ON. I AM JUSTIFIED AFTER ALL. ...SO JAY RAYNOLDS ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS: 1) WHO IS PAYING YOU? 2) ARE YOU RELATED TO MOSSAD? 3) HOW DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THE HIT AT THE WTC ONE DAY BEFORE IT OCCURED?.........DO NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT NOT EXEPTING MINE AND GAIA'S OFFER FOR FREE PARTICIPATION AT KOS' CONFERENCE...WE KNOW THE ANSWER.

[liakopoulos]

HEY JAY, ALL READERS EXPECT YOUR ANSWER. DO YOU DARE TO SHOW UP IN GREECE, ALL EXPENCES COVERED, OR NOT. .....YOU ARE FINISHED JAY..... LITTLE SHITHEAD IS IN AGONY... HIS (OR HER) HERO IS PUBLICLY HUMILIATED.......... YOU BETTER GO HIDE IN THE DARKEST TOILET YOU EVER DESIGNED.

[halva]

Hey Halva,

1) So do you think we are in the company of "professional debunkers" or just "sceptics"?

2) How common is the chemtrailing over Greece now?




Hi SmT,

1) I don't know. I'm just quoting what JR said himself. He mentioned a 'payoff' that he would reveal if Sore Throat fulfilled one of his demands.

2) The skies over Athens have been overcast for weeks. We're forgetting what the sun looks like. As soon as we get a sunny day the planes are visible again doing their work.

[halva]

-Chemmies-

They don't know who, what or why.

They just know.

Proof? They don't need no steenkin' proof!


:lol:

Yaak get this clear:

We are under no obligation to prove anything to you. No-one has appointed you judge and no-one has decided that it is we rather than you who are the defendants..

However, now that this matter is beginning to come out here in Greece, something like public opinion is developing, and at the court of public opinion it is you, not we, who will be in the dock.

[halva]

The Manhattan Project was effectively kept under the wraps until the bombs had been dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

There was perhaps not so much need for JR-type figures before the A-bombs were dropped. After all, the fact that an A-bomb programme was under way was not something visible to the public in the way that chemtrails/geoengineering is.

To the extent that chemtrails have a military dimension to them, it is worth bearing this in mind. In a way weather modification for military purposes is the exact opposite of nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons are designed to bluff and terrorise. Weather modification by contrast is a weapon that blurs the distinction between war and peace. The 'enemy' finds it hard to know whether a war is being waged against him or not. This is something Zbigniew Brzezinski pointed out in one of his books.

Reynolds and his debunkers play the same ancillary role in relation to the weather modification weapon as the anti-nuclear movements play in relation to nuclear weapons.

Just as the anti-nuclear movements keep public attention fixed on nuclear weapons, propagating fear of them, so Reynolds and the debunkers through their denial of the existence of the weather modification weapons, similarly propagate fear through the cognitive dissonance and confusion their denial generates.

[liakopoulos]

HALVA , WE ARE IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT, BUT THERE IS ONLY ONE DIFFERENCE CONCERNING JAY. ANTI-NUCLEAR ACTIVISTS DON'T GET PAID!

[liakopoulos]

AND OF COURSE, THEY DO NOT DESIGN TOILETS

[jayreynolds]

SMTlynn george wrote:
"WE have been now TWO FULL DAYS with ZERO chemtrails here in Mid Missouri at least directly overhead, but I noticed out to the east this evening that there were jets that apeared to be going back and forth building up a cloud bank." :roll:

Jay Reynolds wrote: "Sorry about the backlog. Expect to be sprayed heavily today with whiteout later, but a respite Sunday."

The above text can be seen back on page 71 of this thread.

Lynn George(SMT), I wrote the above prediction on Friday, that on Saturday, you would be 'sprayed heavily, leading to a "whiteout", but that on Sunday, it would be clear again.

Was I correct?
How did I know?
Think about it.

[liakopoulos]

DEAR JAY ,THIS IS THE SECOND TIME YOU ADMIT THAT YOU RECIEVE ILLEGAL MONEY. ............. ANSWER RIGHT NOW... ARE YOU COMING TO GREECE OR NOT........... BESIDES EVERYTHING WILL BE FREE! I EMPHASIZE THAT, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU ..."NO PAY ,NO PLAY"

[liakopoulos]

DEAR JAY THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR PARTICIPATING IN THE ARIANNA DEBATE. SINCE HERE, YOU ARE THROUGH AND DONE (SINCE WE BUSTED YOU UP), I SUGEST THAT YOU MOVE TO.......................................www.chris tianparty.net/holocaust.htm TO PARTICIPATE AT THE HOLOCAUST HOAX DEBATE. START PACKING LITTLE JAY.

[liakopoulos]

http://christianparty.net/holocaust.htm GO JAY

[Yaak]

Halva claimed, "We are under no obligation to prove anything to you."

WRONG! The accusations are yours. Without proof they ammount to nothing more than hearsay.

[liakopoulos]

TO JAY RAYNOLDS : IF YOU MOVE TO ANY DEBATE PLEASE DON'T HESITATE TO LET ME KNOW. LIKE I SAID BEFORE ,YOU'RE LIKE A BAD HABBIT.

[liakopoulos]

TO YAAK: PROOF NO1 LOOK UPWARDS

[gaiacomm]

Readers:

Jay will not accept my invitation to Greece because he is afraid of me and that means he must leave the land of OZ. And we would all discover that he is a little man that is afraid of being a man.

I quite frankly amuse myself with him when he posts. His website is so erratic and messy.

He found a niche in this internet and plays it to amuse himself. When you respond to him it gives him pleasure of all kinds.

Karen probably does not know of the extent of his involvement here on the internet because their marriage is not sexual anymore!

Its the internet is Jays new lover and Karen accepts this new women.

The kids are grown and have their life and Karen has her interests as well so this allows for Jay to become a cyberjunkie and rasie hell on the internet.

After checking Jay out he does not have any close ties to any scientific or government persons. He has written countless letters to everyone with some canned responses. Jay is a grain of sand in a ocean of sharks.

He will never change anything other than his underwear.


Jay avoids me because of his ignorance and fear. And that is ok!

But Jay should stop pretending to be something that he is not.

Someone may send Jay a virus to destroy his computer and or his website soon which will put an end to his rule.

I invited Jay to Greece all expenses paid....I don't even have to see him.

Jay is better here on the internet where you cannot see him.

He hides like a coward. Its amazing how Karen feels about him.

I am sure that if another man showed up and gave Karen the attention she needs she would file for divorce and leave Jay alone with his despair!

Halva...I will followup with the data!

[liakopoulos]

HEY JAY, CHEER UP MAN , YOU SEE I HAVE THIS SUGGESTION....... I SUGGEST THAT YOU COME TO GREECE ANY WAY AS A GUEST. THIS THE COUNTRY OF THE OLYMPICS. YOU MAY HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN A GOLD MEDAL ON TOILET DESIGNING..........

[liakopoulos]

IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THIS DEBATE IS COMING TO AN END. CONGRATULATIONS TO GAIA ON THE FINAL STRIKE TO POOR JAY. GOLD MEDAL SUGGESTIONS: GOLD MEDAL TO SHITHEAD9 FOR COMPLETE IGNORANCE ON PHYSICS......GOLD MEDAL TO JAY FOR BEING SUCH A CHICKENSHIT COWARD.......GOLD MEDAL TO HALVA FOR THE AMUSMENT HE PROVIDED BY GIVING US THE CHANCE TO COEXIST WITH "THE" TOILET DESIGNER........

[liakopoulos]

TO GAIA: DO NOT ,REPEAT NOT, HOPE THAT YOU CAN SEND A VIRUS TO JAY. EVEN VIRUSES COULD NOT LAST IN HIS PRESENSE

[gaiacomm]

Readers:

Jay will not accept my invitation to Greece because he is afraid of me and that means he must leave the land of OZ. And we would all discover that he is a little man that is afraid of being a man.

I quite frankly amuse myself with him when he posts. His website is so erratic and messy.

He found a niche in this internet and plays it to amuse himself. When you respond to him it gives him pleasure of all kinds.

Karen probably does not know of the extent of his involvement here on the internet because their marriage is not sexual anymore!

Its the internet is Jays new lover and Karen accepts this new women.

The kids are grown and have their life and Karen has her interests as well so this allows for Jay to become a cyberjunkie and rasie hell on the internet.

After checking Jay out he does not have any close ties to any scientific or government persons. He has written countless letters to everyone with some canned responses. Jay is a grain of sand in a ocean of sharks.

He will never change anything other than his underwear.


Jay avoids me because of his ignorance and fear. And that is ok!

But Jay should stop pretending to be something that he is not.

Someone may send Jay a virus to destroy his computer and or his website soon which will put an end to his rule.

I invited Jay to Greece all expenses paid....I don't even have to see him.

Jay is better here on the internet where you cannot see him.

He hides like a coward. Its amazing how Karen feels about him.

I am sure that if another man showed up and gave Karen the attention she needs she would file for divorce and leave Jay alone with his despair!

Halva...I will followup with the data!

[liakopoulos]

SEEMS TO ME THAT WE ARE THE ABSOLUTE RULERS OF THIS DEBATE. ....GOOD BYE JAY....I MEAN SHALOM.

[Bonehead9]

DEAR JAY ,THIS IS THE SECOND TIME YOU ADMIT THAT YOU RECIEVE ILLEGAL MONEY. ............. ANSWER RIGHT NOW... ARE YOU COMING TO GREECE OR NOT........... BESIDES EVERYTHING WILL BE FREE! I EMPHASIZE THAT, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU ..."NO PAY ,NO PLAY"


Hey Gollum, you mst not score very high in reading comprehension.

Where does Jay ever admit to recieving "illegal money?"

What is "illegal money?"

What laws are you claiming have been broken?

Yess my Preciousssss. Gollum, Gollum.

[Bonehead9]

IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THIS DEBATE IS COMING TO AN END. CONGRATULATIONS TO GAIA ON THE FINAL STRIKE TO POOR JAY. GOLD MEDAL SUGGESTIONS: GOLD MEDAL TO SHITHEAD9 FOR COMPLETE IGNORANCE ON PHYSICS......GOLD MEDAL TO JAY FOR BEING SUCH A CHICKENSHIT COWARD.......GOLD MEDAL TO HALVA FOR THE AMUSMENT HE PROVIDED BY GIVING US THE CHANCE TO COEXIST WITH "THE" TOILET DESIGNER........


I am still waiting for you to explain where I am wrong and you are right.

You can't do that, can you gollum?

it is you who has lost the debate, troll.

[Bonehead9]

SEEMS TO ME THAT WE ARE THE ABSOLUTE RULERS OF THIS DEBATE. ....GOOD BYE JAY....I MEAN SHALOM.


Again, you are making the childish insistance that everyone respond to your every post the instant you make it.

As far As I can see, you have completely failed to offer any suport for your position. you lose gollum.

[Bonehead9]

Hey Smeagol

- got spam?

[Bonehead9]

EXHAUST EMISSIONS WHEN FROZEN START DESCENDING TO LOWER ATMOSPHERIC LEVELS WHERE THE HIGHER TEMPERATURES DEFROST THEM. THUS THEY DISSAPEAR WITHIN 20 to 35 SECONDS. CHEMTRAILS DO NOT DISSAPEAR. INSTEAD THEY EXPAND INCREASING THEIR VOLUME. WE CAN ALSO OBSERVE THAT THIS EXPANSION TAKES PLACE ON A CERTAIN LEVEL GIVING FLAT CLOUDS. THE COMBINATION OF MANY CHEMTRAILS AT THE SAME HIGHT GIVES A BIG FLAT CLOUD, USUALLY AT 30000 FEET. THIS CAN BE USED AS A REFLECTING SURFACE. WHAT DO THEY WANT TO REFLECT, IF THESE SURFACES ARE INDEED ARTIFICIAL? THE SUN HEAT COMING FROM SPACE, OR ARTIFICIAL EMISSIONS FROM THE GROUND? HEY JAY, I KNOW I GOT YOU IN DEEP WATERS NOW!

Let us dissect this posts, shall we

EXHAUST EMISSIONS WHEN FROZEN

we are talking about water here (actually ice)
According to the Standard Atmosphere (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/wstdatmo.htm) table, the ambient temperature at 30,000 feet is -47 degrees F (-44 C)

START DESCENDING TO LOWER ATMOSPHERIC LEVEL WHERE THE HIGHER TEMPERATURES DEFROST THEM THUS THEY DISSAPEAR WITHIN 20 to 35 SECONDS

lets go back to the Standard Atmosphere table. The temperature does not get above freezing until around 8,000 feet. If a contrail is formed at 30,000 feet, and the ice crystals thaw 30 seconds later when they reach 8,000 feet, that means that they cover 22,000 feet in 30 seconds, or about 500 miles per hour. Even more troubling is the assumption that once the ice crystals melt you will no longer be able to see them.

CHEMTRAILS DO NOT DISSAPEAR. INSTEAD THEY EXPAND INCREASING THEIR VOLUME.

Liafraud, have you ever studied the concept of supersaturation?

http://www.arm.gov/docs/research/progress_00/ferrare.pdf

Here is a short refresher course for you

http://www.auf.asn.au/meteorology/section1a.html



WE CAN ALSO OBSERVE THAT THIS EXPANSION TAKES PLACE ON A CERTAIN LEVEL GIVING FLAT CLOUDS. THE COMBINATION OF MANY CHEMTRAILS AT THE SAME HIGHT GIVES A BIG FLAT CLOUD, USUALLY AT 30000 FEET.

Again, read through some of the info on supersaturation, especially the part about thin supersaturated at high altitudes.

WHAT DO THEY WANT TO REFLECT, IF THESE SURFACES ARE INDEED ARTIFICIAL? THE SUN HEAT COMING FROM SPACE, OR ARTIFICIAL EMISSIONS FROM THE GROUND?

Well? Which is it? Make up your mind already.

I am still waiting for your response.

[halva]

Yaak and shithead: go back to CTC.

Mech is pluralistic and can be bothered wasting time with your garbage arguments.

Your boss has been KO'ed.

[Bonehead9]

No Halva, it is you that has been exposed as the petty little sniveler that you are.

You invited Gaiacomm into this discussion.

You invited liakafraud into this discussion.

You have lost all credibility on this forum and at CTC.

In keeping with the LOTR theme, I dub thee “Wormtongue.”

[jayreynolds]

Isn't it hilarious how halva keeps trying so desperately to end this thread, when I am quite happy to stay here forever.
First, he tried to ban me, that didn't work.
Then he begged to have discussion moved to chem11's hollow room, that didn't work either.
For awhile 'Sore' and Deborah('footsoldier') provided at least something to easily debunk, they finally admitted that there was no proof of chemtrails, but that they were concerned about contrails(that's what I told them five years ago). That didn't work too good either.
Then he sent out gollum(giacon) and smeagol(liakafraud) to spam the board every few minutes in a last ditch effort to keep people from answering the deadly questions. That didn't work either.

And so, now halva is down to begging even debunkers to leave the forum, trying his damndest too, it looks like. That won't work either, halva.

You and your buddies will be tied up like rubber bands here forever, because I never quit. Get over it.

You never had an argument to begin with and you haven't developed one while you've been here. You've shown your friends at CTC what dolts you really are, even mech is fed up with a "greek communist" telling him what to do. Liafraud and giacon will never post at chem11's, they have shot their wad at CTC no credibility left there either.
Giacon is banned at CTTUSA, they gave up on you awile ago, too, wayne. No one will even dare approach the atmospheric conference at Kos, Greece to carry the chemtrail torch because you are all frauds, imbeciles, and cowards. It is the chemmie side that has resorted to nonsense spam and infantile scatatological references.

This thread is a 10,000 page view laughingstock, and the joke is on you, Wayne Hall! You started it, and now you are trying to close pandora's box. Shows just how pathetically powerless you are, boy!Wormtongue indeed, the maggots have just made your tongue drop clean off, anything you say now is just a mumble! ya-ya-ya-ya

[lynn george]

Yaak and shithead: go back to CTC.

Mech is pluralistic and can be bothered wasting time with your garbage arguments.

Your boss has been KO'ed.

Hi Halva, Gaicomm, and others,

Speaking of CTC I get the distinct impression it has been hacked. The last two boards I was on were hacked just like I predicted CTC would be months earlier when the intensity of posting became as it was right before it mysteriously malfunctioned. Perhaps G-comm you would tell us morer about how boards are hacked. Is there anyway you can tell if CTC was hacked with your communication etc. experience? How could CTC lose only the ability to recognize some passwords, (It wouldn't recognize my original). So I re-registered and it sent back an immediate reply and new password, and I tried the new one numerous times and it wouldn't work. Very odd. Have either of you had similiar problems there in the last day or so. Halva, if you happen to repost there could you send a PM to the moderator asking them what's up, as I seem to be either accidentally or purposesly locked out. Surely it's just a coincidence. Can you lend a hand?

SmT

[lynn george]

THREE FULL DAYS of no visable chemtrails, and only a few jets leaving NO trails and many leaving the standard seconds only contrail vapor trails. What an excellent day today BLUE skies for the first time in a long time. We had clouds the first two days and jets still left only seconds long contrails no matter how high or low they appeared to be flying. The temperature was perfect for this time of year, hence the need for no additional weather modification. If we can make it through the weekend with no chemtrailing we will honestly IMO have broken a record of sorts as the longest stretch here in the area has been only several days between "applications".

This is great. Blue skies. NO chemtrails, still, three days in a row. These are the skies I remember years ago.Today was one of those days (after the clouds from the first two days moved through) that was solid blue with ZERO clouds in the sky anywhere and only quickly disapating jet vapor trails.

SmT

[gaiacomm]

Readers:

Jay will not accept my invitation to Greece because he is afraid of me and that means he must leave the land of OZ. And we would all discover that he is a little man that is afraid of being a man.

I quite frankly amuse myself with him when he posts. His website is so erratic and messy.

He found a niche in this internet and plays it to amuse himself. When you respond to him it gives him pleasure of all kinds.

Karen probably does not know of the extent of his involvement here on the internet because their marriage is not sexual anymore!

Its the internet is Jays new lover and Karen accepts this new women.

The kids are grown and have their life and Karen has her interests as well so this allows for Jay to become a cyberjunkie and rasie hell on the internet.

After checking Jay out he does not have any close ties to any scientific or government persons. He has written countless letters to everyone with some canned responses. Jay is a grain of sand in a ocean of sharks.

He will never change anything other than his underwear.


Jay avoids me because of his ignorance and fear. And that is ok!

But Jay should stop pretending to be something that he is not.

Someone may send Jay a virus to destroy his computer and or his website soon which will put an end to his rule.

I invited Jay to Greece all expenses paid....I don't even have to see him.

Jay is better here on the internet where you cannot see him.

He hides like a coward. Its amazing how Karen feels about him.

I am sure that if another man showed up and gave Karen the attention she needs she would file for divorce and leave Jay alone with his despair!

Halva...I will followup with the data!

[gaiacomm]

Yaak and shithead: go back to CTC.

Mech is pluralistic and can be bothered wasting time with your garbage arguments.

Your boss has been KO'ed.

Hi Halva, Gaicomm, and others,

Speaking of CTC I get the distinct impression it has been hacked. The last two boards I was on were hacked just like I predicted CTC would be months earlier when the intensity of posting became as it was right before it mysteriously malfunctioned. Perhaps G-comm you would tell us morer about how boards are hacked. Is there anyway you can tell if CTC was hacked with your communication etc. experience? How could CTC lose only the ability to recognize some passwords, (It wouldn't recognize my original). So I re-registered and it sent back an immediate reply and new password, and I tried the new one numerous times and it wouldn't work. Very odd. Have either of you had similiar problems there in the last day or so. Halva, if you happen to repost there could you send a PM to the moderator asking them what's up, as I seem to be either accidentally or purposesly locked out. Surely it's just a coincidence. Can you lend a hand?

SmT



Contact the ADMIN!

[lynn george]

Yaak and shithead: go back to CTC.

Mech is pluralistic and can be bothered wasting time with your garbage arguments.

Your boss has been KO'ed.

Hi Halva, Gaicomm, and others,

Speaking of CTC I get the distinct impression it has been hacked. The last two boards I was on were hacked just like I predicted CTC would be months earlier when the intensity of posting became as it was right before it mysteriously malfunctioned. Perhaps G-comm you would tell us morer about how boards are hacked. Is there anyway you can tell if CTC was hacked with your communication etc. experience? How could CTC lose only the ability to recognize some passwords, (It wouldn't recognize my original). So I re-registered and it sent back an immediate reply and new password, and I tried the new one numerous times and it wouldn't work. Very odd. Have either of you had similiar problems there in the last day or so. Halva, if you happen to repost there could you send a PM to the moderator asking them what's up, as I seem to be either accidentally or purposesly locked out. Surely it's just a coincidence. Can you lend a hand?

SmT



Contact the ADMIN!


SmT- I attempted to. It seems I can't even get in to contact them about not being able to contact them. I thought you might have more to offer GC.

SmT

[Bonehead9]

THREE FULL DAYS of no visable chemtrails, and only a few jets leaving NO trails and many leaving the standard seconds only contrail vapor trails. What an excellent day today BLUE skies for the first time in a long time. We had clouds the first two days and jets still left only seconds long contrails no matter how high or low they appeared to be flying. The temperature was perfect for this time of year, hence the need for no additional weather modification. If we can make it through the weekend with no chemtrailing we will honestly IMO have broken a record of sorts as the longest stretch here in the area has been only several days between "applications".

This is great. Blue skies. NO chemtrails, still, three days in a row. These are the skies I remember years ago.Today was one of those days (after the clouds from the first two days moved through) that was solid blue with ZERO clouds in the sky anywhere and only quickly disapating jet vapor trails.

SmT

I would tend to blame the hosting service first. I know of several other sites that have had periodic problems over the last year or so of similar nature.

Drives fail. Servers go down.


Try reregistering.

[halva]

SmT, I'll ask about it.

[Bonehead9]

EXHAUST EMISSIONS WHEN FROZEN START DESCENDING TO LOWER ATMOSPHERIC LEVELS WHERE THE HIGHER TEMPERATURES DEFROST THEM. THUS THEY DISSAPEAR WITHIN 20 to 35 SECONDS. CHEMTRAILS DO NOT DISSAPEAR. INSTEAD THEY EXPAND INCREASING THEIR VOLUME. WE CAN ALSO OBSERVE THAT THIS EXPANSION TAKES PLACE ON A CERTAIN LEVEL GIVING FLAT CLOUDS. THE COMBINATION OF MANY CHEMTRAILS AT THE SAME HIGHT GIVES A BIG FLAT CLOUD, USUALLY AT 30000 FEET. THIS CAN BE USED AS A REFLECTING SURFACE. WHAT DO THEY WANT TO REFLECT, IF THESE SURFACES ARE INDEED ARTIFICIAL? THE SUN HEAT COMING FROM SPACE, OR ARTIFICIAL EMISSIONS FROM THE GROUND? HEY JAY, I KNOW I GOT YOU IN DEEP WATERS NOW!

The time it takes for a contrail to disipate is directly impacted by the relative humidity (with respect to ice).

Care to discuss this Gollum?

[Bonehead9]

Liakopoulos, it is more important for you to retain credibility among "chemtrails" investigators and those concerned with climate change in Greece than it is for you to reach an understanding, or whatever it is you want to do, with Reynolds.

It's a shame that you can't adhere to your original insight that Reynolds for you is a bad habit. He did not challenge you as he did me and staying at this forum is not a question of honour for you.

What credibility? Gollum has been shown to be a nasty little turd.



And Gaiacomm, your conscience does not seem to be giving you the message also that there is no point in your posting here unless you have new information to add.

Smeagol does like to spam, dosn't he? It hides the fact that he has absolutely nothing to add. He never had, he never will.

Everyone else has figured this out about him, why not you, Grima?

[liakopoulos]

WELL, WELL, WELL, THE RETARDS ARE BACK. DEAR SHITHEAD9 AND JAY, I CONGRATULATE YOU ON YOUR DECISION TO STAY, BECAUSE THIS DEBATE IS AN OASIS IN A MAN'S HARD WORKING DAY. THANK YOU FOR NOT LEAVING AND PLEASE CONTINUE TO AMUSE US IN YOUR USUAL FASCINATING WAY.

[liakopoulos]

TO SHITHEAD9: YOU WILL RECEIVE NO KNOWLEDGE IN PHYSICS FROM ME. I HEAR THAT YOU BOTHER YOUR TEACHERS IN SCHOOL TRYING TO LEARN A FEW THINGS ABOUT CONTRAILS ETC. PLEASE DO NOT BOTHER THEM. THE DEBATE IS OVER AND YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST. MY BEST REGARDS TO YOUR MOTHER.

[gaiacomm]

Readers:

Jay will not accept my invitation to Greece because he is afraid of me and that means he must leave the land of OZ. And we would all discover that he is a little man that is afraid of being a man.

I quite frankly amuse myself with him when he posts. His website is so erratic and messy.

He found a niche in this internet and plays it to amuse himself. When you respond to him it gives him pleasure of all kinds.

Karen probably does not know of the extent of his involvement here on the internet because their marriage is not sexual anymore!

Its the internet is Jays new lover and Karen accepts this new women.

The kids are grown and have their life and Karen has her interests as well so this allows for Jay to become a cyberjunkie and rasie hell on the internet.

After checking Jay out he does not have any close ties to any scientific or government persons. He has written countless letters to everyone with some canned responses. Jay is a grain of sand in a ocean of sharks.

He will never change anything other than his underwear.


Jay avoids me because of his ignorance and fear. And that is ok!

But Jay should stop pretending to be something that he is not.

Someone may send Jay a virus to destroy his computer and or his website soon which will put an end to his rule.

I invited Jay to Greece all expenses paid....I don't even have to see him.

Jay is better here on the internet where you cannot see him.

He hides like a coward. Its amazing how Karen feels about him.

I am sure that if another man showed up and gave Karen the attention she needs she would file for divorce and leave Jay alone with his despair!

[jayreynolds]

THIS IS A CALL FOR RATIONAL DEBATE, END THE NONSENSE SPAMMING AT THIS BOARD.
START DEALING WITH FACTS AND PHYSICS INSTEAD OF CRAP AND DISTRACTIONS.


Liakopoulos, this is an understatement of the situation by you:
"YOU WILL RECEIVE NO KNOWLEDGE IN PHYSICS FROM ME."

Come to think of it, whenever the debunker side starts talking science,
or asking specific questions relevant to the subject of the thread, the only response is nonsense posting of spam by giacon and liafraud, both of whom claim to be "Physicists".

Anyone reading this thread will quickly see who is talking physics, and who is talking trash.

Liakopoulos, let me give you a little lesson about contrails, not that you are prepared to understand it, but just to be fair as I slice and dice you.

I CHALLENGE ANYONE TO DEBATE THE ACCURACY OF MY CLAIM BELOW!



Contrails have been known since before World War II, when high altitude flights became possible. They were first scientifically described in English in the research of H. Appleman, The formation of exhaust condensation trails by jet aircraft, Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, 34, pp 14-20, 1953, or earlier, but in German, by Schmidt, E., Die Entstehung von Eisnebeln aus den Auspuffgasen von Flugmotoren, Schriften der Deutschen Akademie der Luftfahrtforschung Vol 44, pp 1-15, 1941.

The actual contrail itself is made up of water, which is produced through the oxidation of hydrocarbon fuels, wherein atmospheric oxygen combines with hydrogen to form water vapor as in the following:

CH4 + 2O2 + 8N2 -----------> CO2 + 2H2O + 8N2 + 1000 BTU Heat

If temperatures are low enough, generally below -38C, the contrail will form into a linear shaped cloud of ice crystals at which time it will behave almost identically to other cirrus clouds, which are also composed of ice crystals.

Once the contrail forms, it's lifespan is almost completely dependent on the quantity of moisture in the air parcel in which it exists. If enough moisture is not already in the air the contrail forms in, the contrail will rapidly evaporate(sublimate). If the air is supersaturated with respect to ice, the contrail ice crystals can persist the same as other cirrus clouds, and if enough moisture is present, the ice crystals can grow through deposition via the Bergeron Process. The contrail, if existing within a region of upper level winds, can also spread out and grow due to wind shear. If the crystals grow to sufficient size, their size can result in their beginning to fall to lower altitudes.

Reports and photographs presented thus far as being 'chemtrails'(not normal contrails) satisfy the qualities known to exist in normal contrails. The following attributes are considered normal for both contrails and natural cirrus clouds:

- Wispy appearance with the typical "Mare's Tail" effect, within contrail circles the terms 'fishbone' and 'cobweb' have also been coined. This appearance, also present within natural cirrus clouds, has been falsely claimed by 'chemtrail' proponents as abnormal when in fact the onset of cirrus clouds is a long-known, albeit primitive, form of weather forecasting preceding a frontal system.

- Refraction and prismatic effects caused by the ice crystals which lead to division of the sunlight spectrum into it's visible colors, so that colors and halos become visible in the contrails/cirrus clouds. These optical effects, known to exist for centuries, have been falsely claimed by 'chemtrail' proponents to be due to oil or chemicals.

- Persistence over time, which is normal of all clouds when conditions of sufficient moisture prevent their evaporation. This has also been claimed by 'chemtrail' proponents as being unusual. Would persistence of ordinary clouds be considered unusual?

-Contrails "stopping and starting" is due to the airplane flying through varying air parcels which either allow them to persist or not. It has been claimed as evidence that these contrails are "spray" being controlled. In fact, at all levels, our atmosphere is often a chaotic mix of rising, falling, moving, and varying moisture levels. All have seen how normal clouds can vary in shape, location, and have at one time seen a totally clear sky with only one singular cloud in evidence. This observation clearly shows that the air we see differs widely from one point to another, and fully explains how contrails can start and stop depending on the air they are in.

-Contrails in parallel or intersecting shapes are due to aircraft following corridors or passing near waypoints, which are the imaginary "roadways" and "intersections" in the sky that planes use while in flight. These are normal, expected, and can be monitored at home with your PC using a new software program which allows realtime access to air traffic control views of the sky nationwide, at low cost. The claim that patterns formed by contrails are an indication of a sinister program is not supported since all these patterns are known to result from normal traffic patterns.

Recently, most aircraft have been upgraded with satellite navigation.
This advance has allowed aircraft to fly "off airway" in what is called "free flight" direct to it's destination. Free flight is allowed by special clearance from Air Traffic Control so that the aircraft can reduce fuel consumption and flying time. Ironically, though it then pollutes less, many "chemtrail" believers have made much of the sight of aircraft flying off-airways, considering it as yet another reason for concern!

One last way that contrails can form is when airflow across a wing is sufficient to create a turbulent eddy in which a low pressure forms. As the pressure drops, atmospheric moisture cannot be contained and it condenses. These vortex trails have been known to exist and are considered normal, especially on wingtips, but under high moisture conditions can form at other points where air turbulence takes place. 'Chemtrail' proponents have seen these and noted they do not come from the engines, have falsely claimed them to be a "newspray" or "megaspray" system, when in fact all pilots know they are normal.

[lynn george]

SmT, I'll ask about it.

Thanks, halva, greatly appreciate it.

The three days of NO chemtrailing I mentioned has come to an immediate end as this morning they came back, right on schedule, as it is set to get very warm here and perhaps high U.V. levels. I awoke to a sky full of chemtrails that had apparantly been put down overnight into the early morning as out in the west (where there is no major commercial airport for 100 miles) one could see dozens of trails running mostly a very uncharacteristic north/ south. Planes are now flying back and forth and circling around spreading the whiteish "Chem Haze" we all know so well. In several hours I suppose they will have taken the sky from solid blue to solid white in less than 24 hours. Amazing!

SmT

[liakopoulos]

HEY JAY, YOU GOT IT ALL MIXED UP MAN. ............. 1) THE DEBATE IS OVER AND YOU HAVE LOST. 2) YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT CHEMTRAILS.......YOU MAY TALK ONLY ABOUT TOILETRAILS..............YOU ARE THROUGH LITTLE MAN................YOU MUST ANSWER THE VITAL QUESTIONS FIRST. 1) WHAT IS YOUR RELATION WITH MOSSAD?...2) WHY DON'TYA ACCEPT OUR INVITATION TO GREECE, (EVERYTHING PAYED), 3) HOW DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THE HIT AT THE WTC ONE DAY BEFORE IT OCURED?...........ANSWER YOU PATHETIC FRAUD

[lynn george]

It is now only a little past 9:30 and though there are ZERO real clouds in the sky the dozens of planes spreading chemtrails into yesterdays solid blue sky have taken it to about 80-90% COMPLETELY covered by Chem Haze in much less than just 24 hours. The chemplanes have been working like hornets flying back and forth and circling around, in what has been alluded to as "like giant spiders weaving a web". That's a good analogy. It still seems it may get very warm in the next few days, but it appears the ChemHaze should reduce temps as ususual. Is this Teller's "sky shield" or what the Observer says scientists are "considering" as a solution to global warming, "A Giant Space Shield For Planet Earth"? Is this what ExxonMobile is spending a hundred million dollars on applied research into geoengineering "remedies" through universities like Stanford that now openly call for geoengineering such as Jay Michaelson's paper regarding a "Climate Change Manhatten Project".? Is this what congessman Kucinnich called "chemtrails" in his proposed legislation? Is this part of the U.S. military/gov protocol of "Owning the Weather by 2025" as they have stated as an objective? I believe it is. These planes outside my window right now that weren't flying in semi-circles and right at each other and in all different unusual directions yesterday or the day before, and have turned this solid blue cloudless sky into a translucent whitish Haze that has indeed cut down the "intensity" of The sun. Teller called the process like putting a giant pair of "sunglasses" on Planet Earth. Pehaps it is. But like all human meddling, at what price?

Smt









SmT, I'll ask about it.

Thanks, halva, greatly appreciate it.

The three days of NO chemtrailing I mentioned has come to an immediate end as this morning they came back, right on schedule, as it is set to get very warm here and perhaps high U.V. levels. I awoke to a sky full of chemtrails that had apparantly been put down overnight into the early morning as out in the west (where there is no major commercial airport for 100 miles) one could see dozens of trails running mostly a very uncharacteristic north/ south. Planes are now flying back and forth and circling around spreading the whiteish "Chem Haze" we all know so well. In several hours I suppose they will have taken the sky from solid blue to solid white in less than 24 hours. Amazing!

SmT

[liakopoulos]

TO SHITHEAD9: GO FOR IT http://web.tickle.com/tests/uiq/?sid=1665&supp=iqtest&test=uiqogt

[liakopoulos]

INFORM US ABOUT THE RESULT SHITHEAD

[gaiacomm]

An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United
States National Security
October 2003
By Peter Schwartz and Doug Randall
Imagining the Unthinkable
The purpose of this report is to imagine the unthinkable – to push the boundaries of current
research on climate change so we may better understand the potential implications on United
States national security.
We have interviewed leading climate change scientists, conducted additional research, and
reviewed several iterations of the scenario with these experts. The scientists support this
project, but caution that the scenario depicted is extreme in two fundamental ways. First,
they suggest the occurrences we outline would most likely happen in a few regions, rather
than on globally. Second, they say the magnitude of the event may be considerably smaller.
We have created a climate change scenario that although not the most likely, is plausible, and
would challenge United States national security in ways that should be considered
immediately.
Executive Summary
There is substantial evidence to indicate that significant global warming will occur
during the 21st century. Because changes have been gradual so far, and are projected
to be similarly gradual in the future, the effects of global warming have the potential
to be manageable for most nations. Recent research, however, suggests that there is a
possibility that this gradual global warming could lead to a relatively abrupt slowing
of the ocean’s thermohaline conveyor, which could lead to harsher winter weather
conditions, sharply reduced soil moisture, and more intense winds in certain regions
that currently provide a significant fraction of the world’s food production. With
inadequate preparation, the result could be a significant drop in the human carrying
capacity of the Earth’s environment.
The research suggests that once temperature rises above some threshold, adverse
weather conditions could develop relatively abruptly, with persistent changes in the
atmospheric circulation causing drops in some regions of 5-10 degrees Fahrenheit in
a single decade. Paleoclimatic evidence suggests that altered climatic patterns could
last for as much as a century, as they did when the ocean conveyor collapsed 8,200
years ago, or, at the extreme, could last as long as 1,000 years as they did during the
Younger Dryas, which began about 12,700 years ago.
Abrupt Climate Change 2
In this report, as an alternative to the scenarios of gradual climatic warming that are
so common, we outline an abrupt climate change scenario patterned after the 100-
year event that occurred about 8,200 years ago. This abrupt change scenario is
characterized by the following conditions:
· Annual average temperatures drop by up to 5 degrees Fahrenheit over Asia
and North America and 6 degrees Fahrenheit in northern Europe
· Annual average temperatures increase by up to 4 degrees Fahrenheit in key
areas throughout Australia, South America, and southern Africa.
· Drought persists for most of the decade in critical agricultural regions and in
the water resource regions for major population centers in Europe and eastern
North America.
· Winter storms and winds intensify, amplifying the impacts of the changes.
Western Europe and the North Pacific experience enhanced winds.
The report explores how such an abrupt climate change scenario could potentially
de-stabilize the geo-political environment, leading to skirmishes, battles, and even
war due to resource constraints such as:
1) Food shortages due to decreases in net global agricultural production
2) Decreased availability and quality of fresh water in key regions due to shifted
precipitation patters, causing more frequent floods and droughts
3) Disrupted access to energy supplies due to extensive sea ice and storminess
As global and local carrying capacities are reduced, tensions could mount around the
world, leading to two fundamental strategies: defensive and offensive. Nations with
the resources to do so may build virtual fortresses around their countries, preserving
resources for themselves. Less fortunate nations especially those with ancient
enmities with their neighbors, may initiate in struggles for access to food, clean
water, or energy. Unlikely alliances could be formed as defense priorities shift and
the goal is resources for survival rather than religion, ideology, or national honor.
This scenario poses new challenges for the United States, and suggests several steps
to be taken:
· Improve predictive climate models to allow investigation of a wider range of
scenarios and to anticipate how and where changes could occur
· Assemble comprehensive predictive models of the potential impacts of abrupt
climate change to improve projections of how climate could influence food,
water, and energy
· Create vulnerability metrics to anticipate which countries are most vulnerable
to climate change and therefore, could contribute materially to an increasingly
disorderly and potentially violent world.
Abrupt Climate Change 3
· Identify no-regrets strategies such as enhancing capabilities for water
management
· Rehearse adaptive responses
· Explore local implications
· Explore geo-engineering options that control the climate.
There are some indications today that global warming has reached the threshold
where the thermohaline circulation could start to be significantly impacted. These
indications include observations documenting that the North Atlantic is increasingly
being freshened by melting glaciers, increased precipitation, and fresh water runoff
making it substantially less salty over the past 40 years.
This report suggests that, because of the potentially dire consequences, the risk of
abrupt climate change, although uncertain and quite possibly small, should be
elevated beyond a scientific debate to a U.S. national security concern.
Climate Change
Cold
Dry
Storms
Reduction in Carrying
Capacity
Food
Water
Energy
National Security
Implications
Border management
Global conflict
Economic malaise
Abrupt Climate Change 4
An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United
States National Security
October 2003
Introduction
When most people think about climate change, they imagine gradual increases in
temperature and only marginal changes in other climatic conditions, continuing
indefinitely or even leveling off at some time in the future. The conventional wisdom
is that modern civilization will either adapt to whatever weather conditions we face
and that the pace of climate change will not overwhelm the adaptive capacity of
society, or that our efforts such as those embodied in the Kyoto protocol will be
sufficient to mitigate the impacts. The IPCC documents the threat of gradual climate
change and its impact to food supplies and other resources of importance to humans
will not be so severe as to create security threats. Optimists assert that the benefits
from technological innovation will be able to outpace the negative effects of climate
change.
Climatically, the gradual change view of the future assumes that agriculture will
continue to thrive and growing seasons will lengthen. Northern Europe, Russia, and
North America will prosper agriculturally while southern Europe, Africa, and
Central and South America will suffer from increased dryness, heat, water shortages,
and reduced production. Overall, global food production under many typical climate
scenarios increases. This view of climate change may be a dangerous act of selfdeception,
as increasingly we are facing weather related disasters -- more hurricanes,
monsoons, floods, and dry-spells – in regions around the world.
Weather-related events have an enormous impact on society, as they influence food
supply, conditions in cities and communities, as well as access to clean water and
energy. For example, a recent report by the Climate Action Network of Australia
projects that climate change is likely to reduce rainfall in the rangelands, which could
lead to a 15 per cent drop in grass productivity. This, in turn, could lead to
reductions in the average weight of cattle by 12 per cent, significantly reducing beef
supply. Under such conditions, dairy cows are projected to produce 30% less milk,
and new pests are likely to spread in fruit-growing areas. Additionally, such
conditions are projected to lead to 10% less water for drinking. Based on model
projections of coming change conditions such as these could occur in several food
producing regions around the world at the same time within the next 15-30years,
challenging the notion that society’s ability to adapt will make climate change
manageable.
Abrupt Climate Change 5
With over 400 million people living in drier, subtropical, often over-populated and
economically poor regions today, climate change and its follow-on effects pose a
severe risk to political, economic, and social stability. In less prosperous regions,
where countries lack the resources and capabilities required to adapt quickly to more
severe conditions, the problem is very likely to be exacerbated. For some countries,
climate change could become such a challenge that mass emigration results as the
desperate peoples seek better lives in regions such as the United States that have the
resources to adaptation.
Because the prevailing scenarios of gradual global warming could cause effects like
the ones described above, an increasing number of business leaders, economists,
policy makers, and politicians are concerned about the projections for further change
and are working to limit human influences on the climate. But, these efforts may not
be sufficient or be implemented soon enough.
Rather than decades or even centuries of gradual warming, recent evidence suggests
the possibility that a more dire climate scenario may actually be unfolding. This is
why GBN is working with OSD to develop a plausible scenario for abrupt climate
change that can be used to explore implications for food supply, health and disease,
commerce and trade, and their consequences for national security.
While future weather patterns and the specific details of abrupt climate change
cannot be predicted accurately or with great assurance, the actual history of climate
change provides some useful guides. Our goal is merely to portray a plausible
scenario, similar to one which has already occurred in human experieince, for which
there is reasonable evidence so that we may further explore potential implications for
United States national security.
Creating the Scenario: Reviewing History
Abrupt Climate Change 6
The above graphic, derived from sampling of an ice core in Greenland, shows a
historical tendency for particular regions to experience periods of abrupt cooling
within periods of general warming.1
The Cooling Event 8,200 Years Ago
The climate change scenario outlined in this report is modeled on a century-long
climate event that records from an ice core in Greenland indicate occurred 8,200
years ago. Immediately following an extended period of warming, much like the
phase we appear to be in today, there was a sudden cooling . Average annual
temperatures in Greenland dropped by roughly 5 degrees Fahrenheit, and
temperature decreases nearly this large are likely to have occurred throughout the
North Atlantic region. During the 8,200 event severe winters in Europe and some
other areas caused glaciers to advance, rivers to freeze, and agricultural lands to be
less productive. Scientific evidence suggests that this event was associated with, and
perhaps caused by, a collapse of the ocean’s conveyor following a period of gradual
warming.
Longer ice core and oceanic records suggest that there may have been as many as
eight rapid cooling episodes in the past 730,000 years, and sharp reductions in the
ocean conveyer--a phenomenon that may well be on the horizon – are a likely
suspect in causing such shifts in climate.
The Younger Dryas
About 12,700 years ago, also associated with an apparent collapse of the
thermohaline circulation, there was a cooling of at least 27 degrees Fahrenheit in
Greenland, and substantial change throughout the North Atlantic region as well, this
time lasting 1,300 years. The remarkable feature of the Younger Dryas event was that
it happened in a series of decadal drops of around 5 degrees, and then the cold, dry
weather persisted for over 1,000 years. While this event had an enormous effect on
the ocean and land surrounding Europe (causing icebergs to be found as far south as
the coast of Portugal), its impact would be more severe today – in our densely
populated society. It is the more recent periods of cooling that appear to be
intimately connected with changes to civilization, unrest, inhabitability of once
desirable land, and even the demise of certain populations.
The Little Ice Age
Beginning in the 14th century, the North Atlantic region experienced a cooling that
lasted until the mid-19th century. This cooling may have been caused by a significant
slowing of the ocean conveyor, although it is more generally thought that reduced
solar output and/or volcanic eruptions may have prompted the oceanic changes.
This period, often referred to as the Little Ice Age, which lasted from 1300 to 1850,
brought severe winters, sudden climatic shifts, and profound agricultural, economic,
and political impacts to Europe.
1 R.B. Alley, from The Two Mile Time Machine, 2000.
Abrupt Climate Change 7
The period was marked by persistent crop failures, famine, disease, and population
migration, perhaps most dramatically felt by the Norse, also known as the Vikings,
who inhabited Iceland and later Greenland. Ice formations along the coast of
Greenland prevented merchants from getting their boats to Greenland and fisherman
from getting fish for entire winters. As a result, farmers were forced to slaughter
their poorly fed livestock -- because of a lack of food both for the animals and
themselves -- but without fish, vegetables, and grains, there was not enough food to
feed the population.
Famine, caused in part by the more severe climatic conditions, is reported to have
caused tens of thousands of deaths between 1315 and 1319 alone. The general cooling
also apparently drove the Vikings out of Greenland -- and some say was a
contributing cause for that society’s demise.
While climate crises like the Little Ice Age aren’t solely responsible for the death of
civilizations, it’s undeniable that they have a large impact on society. It has been less
than 175 years since 1 million people died due to the Irish Potato famine, which also
was induced in part by climate change.
A Climate Change Scenario For the Future
The past examples of abrupt climate change suggest that it is prudent to consider an
abrupt climate change scenario for the future as plausible, especially because some
recent scientific findings suggest that we could be on the cusp of such an event. The
future scenario that we have constructed is based on the 8,200 years before present
event, which was much warmer and far briefer than the Younger Dryas, but more
severe than the Little Ice Age. This scenario makes plausible assumptions about
which parts of the globe are likely to be colder, drier, and windier. Although
intensified research could help to refine the assumptions, there is no way to confirm
the assumptions on the basis of present models.
Rather than predicting how climate change will happen, our intent is to dramatize
the impact climate change could have on society if we are unprepared for it. Where
we describe concrete weather conditions and implications, our aim is to further the
strategic conversation rather than to accurately forecast what is likely to happen with
a high degree of certainty. Even the most sophisticated models cannot predict the
details of how the climate change will unfold, which regions will be impacted in
which ways, and how governments and society might respond. However, there
appears to be general agreement in the scientific community that an extreme case like
the one depicted below is not implausible. Many scientists would regard this
scenario as extreme both in how soon it develops, how large, rapid and ubiquitous
the climate changes are. But history tells us that sometimes the extreme cases do
Abrupt Climate Change 8
occur, there is evidence that it might be and it is DOD’s job to consider such
scenarios.
Keep in mind that the duration of this event could be decades, centuries, or millennia
and it could begin this year or many years in the future. In the climate change
disruption scenario proposed here, we consider a period of gradual warming leading
to 2010 and then outline the following ten years, when like in the 8,200 event, an
abrupt change toward cooling in the pattern of weather conditions change is
assumed to occur.
Warming Up to 2010
Following the most rapid century of warming experienced by modern civilization,
the first ten years of the 21st century see an acceleration of atmospheric warming, as
average temperatures worldwide rise by .5 degrees Fahrenheit per decade and by as
much as 2 degrees Fahrenheit per decade in the harder hit regions. Such temperature
changes would vary both by region and by season over the globe, with these finer
scale variations being larger or smaller than the average change. What would be very
clear is that the planet is continuing the warming trend of the late 20th century.
Most of North America, Europe, and parts of South America experience 30% more
days with peak temperatures over 90 degrees Fahrenheit than they did a century ago,
with far fewer days below freezing. In addition to the warming, there are erratic
weather patterns: more floods, particularly in mountainous regions, and prolonged
droughts in grain-producing and coastal-agricultural areas. In general, the climate
shift is an economic nuisance, generally affecting local areas as storms, droughts, and
hot spells impact agriculture and other climate-dependent activities. (More French
doctors remain on duty in August, for example.) The weather pattern, though, is not
yet severe enough or widespread enough to threaten the interconnected global
society or United States national security.
Warming Feedback Loops
As temperatures rise throughout the 20th century and into the early 2000s potent
positive feedback loops kick-in, accelerating the warming from .2 degrees Fahrenheit,
to .4 and eventually .5 degrees Fahrenheit per year in some locations. As the surface
warms, the hydrologic cycle (evaporation, precipitation, and runoff) accelerates
causing temperatures to rise even higher. Water vapor, the most powerful natural
greenhouse gas, traps additional heat and brings average surface air temperatures
up. As evaporation increases, higher surface air temperatures cause drying in forests
and grasslands, where animals graze and farmers grow grain. As trees die and burn,
forests absorb less carbon dioxide, again leading to higher surface air temperatures
as well as fierce and uncontrollable forest fires Further, warmer temperatures melt
snow cover in mountains, open fields, high-latitude tundra areas, and permafrost
throughout forests in cold-weather areas. With the ground absorbing more and
reflecting less of the sun’s rays, temperatures increase even higher.
Abrupt Climate Change 9
By 2005 the climatic impact of the shift is felt more intensely in certain regions
around the world. More severe storms and typhoons bring about higher storm
surges and floods in low-lying islands such as Tarawa and Tuvalu (near New
Zealand). In 2007, a particularly severe storm causes the ocean to break through
levees in the Netherlands making a few key coastal cities such as The Hague
unlivable. Failures of the delta island levees in the Sacramento River region in the
Central Valley of California creates an inland sea and disrupts the aqueduct system
transporting water from northern to southern California because salt water can no
longer be kept out of the area during the dry season. Melting along the Himalayan
glaciers accelerates, causing some Tibetan people to relocate. Floating ice in the
northern polar seas, which had already lost 40% of its mass from 1970 to 2003, is
mostly gone during summer by 2010. As glacial ice melts, sea levels rise and as
wintertime sea extent decreases, ocean waves increase in intensity, damaging coastal
cities. Additionally millions of people are put at risk of flooding around the globe
(roughly 4 times 2003 levels), and fisheries are disrupted as water temperature
changes cause fish to migrate to new locations and habitats, increasing tensions over
fishing rights.
Each of these local disasters caused by severe weather impacts surrounding areas
whose natural, human, and economic resources are tapped to aid in recovery. The
positive feedback loops and acceleration of the warming pattern begin to trigger
responses that weren’t previously imagined, as natural disasters and stormy weather
occur in both developed and lesser-developed nations. Their impacts are greatest in
less-resilient developing nations, which do not have the capacity built into their
social, economic, and agricultural systems to absorb change.
As melting of the Greenland ice sheet exceeds the annual snowfall, and there is
increasing freshwater runoff from high latitude precipitation, the freshening of
waters in the North Atlantic Ocean and the seas between Greenland and Europe
increases. The lower densities of these freshened waters in turn pave the way for a
sharp slowing of the thermohaline circulation system.
The Period from 2010 to 2020
Thermohaline Circulation Collapse
After roughly 60 years of slow freshening, the thermohaline collapse begins in 2010,
disrupting the temperate climate of Europe, which is made possible by the warm
flows of the Gulf Stream (the North Atlantic arm of the global thermohaline
conveyor). Ocean circulation patterns change, bringing less warm water north and
causing an immediate shift in the weather in Northern Europe and eastern North
America. The North Atlantic Ocean continues to be affected by fresh water coming
from melting glaciers, Greenland’s ice sheet, and perhaps most importantly increased
rainfall and runoff. Decades of high-latitude warming cause increased precipitation
Abrupt Climate Change 10
and bring additional fresh water to the salty, dense water in the North, which is
normally affected mainly by warmer and saltier water from the Gulf Stream. That
massive current of warm water no longer reaches far into the North Atlantic. The
immediate climatic effect is cooler temperatures in Europe and throughout much of
the Northern Hemisphere and a dramatic drop in rainfall in many key agricultural
and populated areas. However, the effects of the collapse will be felt in fits and starts,
as the traditional weather patterns re-emerge only to be disrupted again—for a full
decade.
The dramatic slowing of the thermohaline circulation is anticipated by some ocean
researchers, but the United States is not sufficiently prepared for its effects, timing, or
intensity. Computer models of the climate and ocean systems, though improved,
were unable to produce sufficiently consistent and accurate information for
policymakers. As weather patterns shift in the years following the collapse, it is not
clear what type of weather future years will bring. While some forecasters believe the
cooling and dryness is about to end, others predict a new ice age or a global drought,
leaving policy makers and the public highly uncertain about the future climate and
what to do, if anything. Is this merely a “blip” of little importance or a fundamental
change in the Earth’s climate, requiring an urgent massive human response?
Cooler, Drier, Windier Conditions for Continental Areas of the Northern Hemisphere
The Weather Report: 2010-2020
· Drought persists for the entire decade in critical agricultural regions
and in the areas around major population centers in Europe and
eastern North America.
· Average annual temperatures drop by up to 5 degrees Fahrenheit over
Asia and North America and up to 6 degrees Fahrenheit in Europe.
· Temperatures increase by up to 4 degrees Fahrenheit in key areas
throughout Australia, South America, and southern Africa.
· Winter storms and winds intensify, amplifying the impact of the
changes. Western Europe and the North Pacific face enhanced
westerly winds.
Each of the years from 2010-2020 sees average temperature drops throughout
Northern Europe, leading to as much as a 6 degree Fahrenheit drop in ten years.
Average annual rainfall in this region decreases by nearly 30%; and winds are up to
15% stronger on average. The climatic conditions are more severe in the continental
interior regions of northern Asia and North America.
Abrupt Climate Change 11
The effects of the drought are more devastating than the unpleasantness of
temperature decreases in the agricultural and populated areas. With the persistent
reduction of precipitation in these areas, lakes dry-up, river flow decreases, and fresh
water supply is squeezed, overwhelming available conservation options and
depleting fresh water reserves. The Mega-droughts begin in key regions in Southern
China and Northern Europe around 2010 and last throughout the full decade. At the
same time, areas that were relatively dry over the past few decades receive persistent
years of torrential rainfall, flooding rivers, and regions that traditionally relied on
dryland agriculture.
In the North Atlantic region and across northern Asia, cooling is most pronounced in
the heart of winter -- December, January, and February -- although its effects linger
through the seasons, the cooling becomes increasingly intense and less predictable.
As snow accumulates in mountain regions, the cooling spreads to summertime. In
addition to cooling and summertime dryness, wind pattern velocity strengthens as
the atmospheric circulation becomes more zonal.
While weather patterns are disrupted during the onset of the climatic change around
the globe, the effects are far more pronounced in Northern Europe for the first five
years after the thermohaline circulation collapse. By the second half of this decade,
the chill and harsher conditions spread deeper into Southern Europe, North America,
and beyond. Northern Europe cools as a pattern of colder weather lengthens the
time that sea ice is present over the northern North Atlantic Ocean, creating a further
cooling influence and extending the period of wintertime surface air temperatures.
Winds pick up as the atmosphere tries to deal with the stronger pole-to-equator
temperature gradient. Cold air blowing across the European continent causes
especially harsh conditions for agriculture. The combination of wind and dryness
causes widespread dust storms and soil loss.
Signs of incremental warming appear in the southern most areas along the Atlantic
Ocean, but the dryness doesn’t let up. By the end of the decade, Europe’s climate is
more like Siberia’s.
An Alternative Scenario for the Southern Hemisphere
There is considerable uncertainty about the climate dynamics of the Southern
Hemisphere, mainly due to less paleoclimatic data being available than for the
Northern Hemisphere. Weather patterns in key regions in the Southern Hemisphere
could mimic those of the Northern Hemisphere, becoming colder, drier, and more
severe as heat flows from the tropics to the Northern Hemisphere, trying to
thermodynamically balance the climatic system. Alternatively, the cooling of the
Northern Hemisphere may lead to increased warmth, precipitation, and storms in
the south, as the heat normally transported away from equatorial regions by the
ocean currents becomes trapped and as greenhouse gas warming continues to
Abrupt Climate Change 12
accelerate. Either way, it is not implausible that abrupt climate change will bring
extreme weather conditions to many of the world’s key population and growing
regions at the same time – stressing global food, water, and energy supply.
The Regions: 2010 to 2020
COLD,
DRY,
WINDY
COLD,
DRY,
WINDY
DRY
WET,
STORMY
DRY,
INTERMITTENT
MONSOONS
The above graphic shows a simplified view of the weather patterns portrayed in this scenario.
Europe. Hit hardest by the climatic change, average annual temperatures drop by 6
degrees Fahrenheit in under a decade, with more dramatic shifts along the
Northwest coast. The climate in northwestern Europe is colder, drier, and windier,
making it more like Siberia. Southern Europe experiences less of a change but still
suffers from sharp intermittent cooling and rapid temperature shifts. Reduced
precipitation causes soil loss to become a problem throughout Europe, contributing
to food supply shortages. Europe struggles to stem emigration out of Scandinavian
and northern European nations in search of warmth as well as immigration from
hard-hit countries in Africa and elsewhere.
United States. Colder, windier, and drier weather makes growing seasons shorter
and less productive throughout the northeastern United States, and longer and drier
in the southwest. Desert areas face increasing windstorms, while agricultural areas
suffer from soil loss due to higher wind speeds and reduced soil moisture. The
change toward a drier climate is especially pronounced in the southern states.
Abrupt Climate Change 13
Coastal areas that were at risk during the warming period remain at risk, as rising
ocean levels continues along the shores. The United States turns inward, committing
its resources to feeding its own population, shoring-up its borders, and managing the
increasing global tension.
China. China, with its high need for food supply given its vast population, is hit hard
by a decreased reliability of the monsoon rains. Occasional monsoons during the
summer season are welcomed for their precipitation, but have devastating effects as
they flood generally denuded land. Longer, colder winters and hotter summers
caused by decreased evaporative cooling because of reduced precipitation stress
already tight energy and water supplies. Widespread famine causes chaos and
internal struggles as a cold and hungry China peers jealously across the Russian and
western borders at energy resources.
Bangladesh. Persistent typhoons and a higher sea level create storm surges that
cause significant coastal erosion, making much of Bangladesh nearly uninhabitable.
Further, the rising sea level contaminates fresh water supplies inland, creating a
drinking water and humanitarian crisis. Massive emigration occurs, causing tension
in China and India, which are struggling to manage the crisis inside their own
boundaries.
East Africa. Kenya, Tanzania, and Mozambique face slightly warmer weather, but
are challenged by persistent drought. Accustomed to dry conditions, these countries
were the least influenced by the changing weather conditions, but their food supply
is challenged as major grain producing regions suffer.
Australia. A major food exporter, Australia struggles to supply food around the
globe, as its agriculture is not severely impacted by more subtle changes in its
climate. But the large uncertainties about Southern Hemisphere climate change make
this benign conclusion suspect.
Impact on Natural Resources
The changing weather patterns and ocean temperatures affect agriculture, fish and
wildlife, water and energy. Crop yields, affected by temperature and water stress as
well as length of growing season fall by 10-25% and are less predictable as key
regions shift from a warming to a cooling trend. As some agricultural pests die due
to temperature changes, other species spread more readily due to the dryness and
windiness – requiring alternative pesticides or treatment regiments. Commercial
fishermen that typically have rights to fish in specific areas will be ill equipped for
the massive migration of their prey.
Abrupt Climate Change 14
With only five or six key grain-growing regions in the world (US, Australia,
Argentina, Russia, China, and India), there is insufficient surplus in global food
supplies to offset severe weather conditions in a few regions at the same time – let
alone four or five. The world’s economic interdependence make the United States
increasingly vulnerable to the economic disruption created by local weather shifts in
key agricultural and high population areas around the world. Catastrophic shortages
of water and energy supply – both which are stressed around the globe today –
cannot be quickly overcome.
Impact on National Security
Human civilization began with the stabilization and warming of the Earth’s climate.
A colder unstable climate meant that humans could neither develop agriculture or
permanent settlements. With the end of the Younger Dryas and the warming and
stabilization that followed, humans could learn the rhythms of agriculture and settle
in places whose climate was reliably productive. Modern civilization has never
experienced weather conditions as persistently disruptive as the ones outlined in this
scenario. As a result, the implications for national security outlined in this report are
only hypothetical. The actual impacts would vary greatly depending on the nuances
of the weather conditions, the adaptability of humanity, and decisions by
policymakers.
Violence and disruption stemming from the stresses created by abrupt changes in the
climate pose a different type of threat to national security than we are accustomed to
today. Military confrontation may be triggered by a desperate need for natural
resources such as energy, food and water rather than by conflicts over ideology,
religion, or national honor. The shifting motivation for confrontation would alter
which countries are most vulnerable and the existing warning signs for security
threats.
There is a long-standing academic debate over the extent to which resource
constraints and environmental challenges lead to inter-state conflict. While some
believe they alone can lead nations to attack one another, others argue that their
primary effect is to act as a trigger of conflict among countries that face pre-existing
social, economic, and political tension. Regardless, it seems undeniable that severe
environmental problems are likely to escalate the degree of global conflict.
Co-founder and President of the Pacific Institute for Studies in Development,
Environment, and Security, Peter Gleick outlines the three most fundamental
challenges abrupt climate change poses for national security:
1. Food shortages due to decreases in agricultural production
2. Decreased availability and quality of fresh water due to flooding and droughts
3. Disrupted access to strategic minerals due to ice and storms
Abrupt Climate Change 15
In the event of abrupt climate change, it’s likely that food, water, and energy resource
constraints will first be managed through economic, political, and diplomatic means
such as treaties and trade embargoes. Over time though, conflicts over land and
water use are likely to become more severe – and more violent. As states become
increasingly desperate, the pressure for action will grow.
Decreasing Carrying Capacity
The graphic shows how abrupt
climate change may cause
human carrying capacity to fall
below usage of the eco-system,
suggesting insufficient
resources leading to a
contraction of the population
through war, disease, and
famine.
Today, carrying capacity, which is the ability for the Earth and its natural ecosystems
including social, economic, and cultural systems to support the finite number of
people on the planet, is being challenged around the world. According to the
International Energy Agency, global demand for oil will grow by 66% in the next 30
years, but it’s unclear where the supply will come from. Clean water is similarly
constrained in many areas around the world. With 815 million people receiving
insufficient sustenance worldwide, some would say that as a globe, we’re living well
above our carrying capacity, meaning there are not sufficient natural resources to
sustain our behavior.
Many point to technological innovation and adaptive behavior as a means for
managing the global ecosystem. Indeed it has been technological progress that has
increased carrying capacity over time. Over centuries we have learned how to
produce more food, energy and access more water. But will the potential of new
technologies be sufficient when a crisis like the one outlined in this scenario hits?
Abrupt climate change is likely to stretch carrying capacity well beyond its already
precarious limits. And there’s a natural tendency or need for carrying capacity to
become realigned. As abrupt climate change lowers the world’s carrying capacity
aggressive wars are likely to be fought over food, water, and energy. Deaths from
war as well as starvation and disease will decrease population size, which overtime,
will re-balance with carrying capacity.
Abrupt Climate Change 16
When you look at carrying capacity on a regional or state level it is apparent that
those nations with a high carrying capacity, such as the United States and Western
Europe, are likely to adapt most effectively to abrupt changes in climate, because,
relative to their population size, they have more resources to call on. This may give
rise to a more severe have, have-not mentality, causing resentment toward those
nations with a higher carrying capacity. It may lead to finger-pointing and blame, as
the wealthier nations tend to use more energy and emit more greenhouse gasses such
as CO2 into the atmosphere. Less important than the scientifically proven
relationship between CO2 emissions and climate change is the perception that
impacted nations have – and the actions they take.
The Link Between Carrying Capacity and Warfare
Steven LeBlanc, Harvard archaeologist and author of a new book called Carrying
Capacity, describes the relationship between carrying capacity and warfare. Drawing
on abundant archaeological and ethnological data, LeBlanc argues that historically
humans conducted organized warfare for a variety of reasons, including warfare
over resources and the environment. Humans fight when they outstrip the carrying
capacity of their natural environment. Every time there is a choice between starving
and raiding, humans raid. From hunter/gatherers through agricultural tribes,
chiefdoms, and early complex societies, 25% of a population’s adult males die when
war breaks out.
Peace occurs when carrying capacity goes up, as with the invention of agriculture,
newly effective bureaucracy, remote trade and technological breakthroughs. Also a
large scale die-back such as from plague can make for peaceful times---Europe after
its major plagues, North American natives after European diseases decimated their
populations (that's the difference between the Jamestown colony failure and
Plymouth Rock success). But such peaceful periods are short-lived because
population quickly rises to once again push against carrying capacity, and warfare
resumes. Indeed, over the millennia most societies define themselves according to
their ability to conduct war, and warrior culture becomes deeply ingrained. The
most combative societies are the ones that survive.
However in the last three centuries, LeBlanc points out, advanced states have
steadily lowered the body count even though individual wars and genocides have
grown larger in scale. Instead of slaughtering all their enemies in the traditional
way, for example, states merely kill enough to get a victory and then put the
survivors to work in their newly expanded economy. States also use their own
bureaucracies, advanced technology, and international rules of behavior to raise
carrying capacity and bear a more careful relationship to it.
All of that progressive behavior could collapse if carrying capacities everywhere
were suddenly lowered drastically by abrupt climate change. Humanity would
revert to its norm of constant battles for diminishing resources, which the battles
Abrupt Climate Change 17
themselves would further reduce even beyond the climatic effects. Once again
warfare would define human life.
Conflict Scenario Due to Climate Change
Europe Asia United States
2010-2020 2012: Severe drought
and cold push
Scandinavian
populations
southward, push back
from EU
2015: Conflict within
the EU over food and
water supply leads to
skirmishes and
strained diplomatic
relations
2018: Russia joins EU,
providing energy
resources
2020: Migration from
northern countries
such as Holland and
Germany toward
Spain and Italy
2010: Border
skirmishes and
conflict in Bangladesh,
India, and China, as
mass migration occurs
toward Burma
2012: Regional
instability leads Japan
to develop force
projection capability
2015: Strategic
agreement between
Japan and Russia for
Siberia and Sakhalin
energy resources
2018: China intervenes
in Kazakhstan to
protect pipelines
regularly disrupted by
rebels and criminals.
2010: Disagreements
with Canada and
Mexico over water
increase tension
2012: Flood of refugees
to southeast U.S. and
Mexico from
Caribbean islands
2015: European
migration to United
States (mostly
wealthy)
2016: Conflict with
European countries
over fishing rights
2018: Securing North
America, U.S. forms
integrated security
alliance with Canada
and Mexico
2020: Department of
Defense manages
borders and refugees
from Caribbean and
Europe.
2020-2030 2020: Increasing:
skirmishes over water
and immigration
2022: Skirmish
between France and
Germany over
commercial access to
Rhine
2025: EU nears
collapse
2027: Increasing
migration to
Mediterranean
countries such as
Algeria, Morocco,
Egypt, and Israel
2030: Nearly 10% of
European population
2020: Persistent
conflict in South East
Asia; Burma, Laos,
Vietnam, India, China
2025: Internal
conditions in China
deteriorate
dramatically leading
to civil war and border
wars.
2030: Tension growing
between China and
Japan over Russian
energy
*
2020: Oil prices
increase as security of
supply is threatened
by conflicts in Persian
Gulf and Caspian
2025: Internal struggle
in Saudi Arabia brings
Chinese and U.S.
naval forces to Gulf ,in
direct confrontation
Abrupt Climate Change 18
moves to a different
country
The chart above outlines some potential military implications of climate change
The two most likely reactions to a sudden drop in carrying capacity due to climate
change are defensive and offensive.
The United States and Australia are likely to build defensive fortresses around their
countries because they have the resources and reserves to achieve self-sufficiency.
With diverse growing climates, wealth, technology, and abundant resources, the
United States could likely survive shortened growing cycles and harsh weather
conditions without catastrophic losses. Borders will be strengthened around the
country to hold back unwanted starving immigrants from the Caribbean islands (an
especially severe problem), Mexico, and South America. Energy supply will be
shored up through expensive (economically, politically, and morally) alternatives
such as nuclear, renewables, hydrogen, and Middle Eastern contracts. Pesky
skirmishes over fishing rights, agricultural support, and disaster relief will be
commonplace. Tension between the U.S. and Mexico rise as the U.S. reneges on the
1944 treaty that guarantees water flow from the Colorado River. Relief workers will
be commissioned to respond to flooding along the southern part of the east coast and
much drier conditions inland. Yet, even in this continuous state of emergency the
U.S. will be positioned well compared to others. The intractable problem facing the
nation will be calming the mounting military tension around the world.
As famine, disease, and weather-related disasters strike due to the abrupt climate
change, many countries’ needs will exceed their carrying capacity. This will create a
sense of desperation, which is likely to lead to offensive aggression in order to
reclaim balance. Imagine eastern European countries, struggling to feed their
populations with a falling supply of food, water, and energy, eyeing Russia, whose
population is already in decline, for access to its grain, minerals, and energy supply.
Or, picture Japan, suffering from flooding along its coastal cities and contamination
of its fresh water supply, eying Russia’s Sakhalin Island oil and gas reserves as an
energy source to power desalination plants and energy-intensive agricultural
processes. Envision Pakistan, India, and China – all armed with nuclear weapons –
skirmishing at their borders over refugees, access to shared rivers, and arable land.
Spanish and Portuguese fishermen might fight over fishing rights – leading to
conflicts at sea. And, countries including the United States would be likely to better
secure their borders. With over 200 river basins touching multiple nations, we can
expect conflict over access to water for drinking, irrigation, and transportation. The
Danube touches twelve nations, the Nile runs though nine, and the Amazon runs
through seven.
Abrupt Climate Change 19
In this scenario, we can expect alliances of convenience. The United States and
Canada may become one, simplifying border controls. Or, Canada might keep its
hydropower—causing energy problems in the US. North and South Korea may align
to create one technically savvy and nuclear-armed entity. Europe may act as a
unified block – curbing immigration problems between European nations – and
allowing for protection against aggressors. Russia, with its abundant minerals, oil,
and natural gas may join Europe.
In this world of warring states, nuclear arms proliferation is inevitable. As cooling
drives up demand, existing hydrocarbon supplies are stretched thin. With a scarcity
of energy supply – and a growing need for access -- nuclear energy will become a
critical source of power, and this will accelerate nuclear proliferation as countries
develop enrichment and reprocessing capabilities to ensure their national security.
China, India, Pakistan, Japan, South Korea, Great Britain, France, and Germany will
all have nuclear weapons capability, as will Israel, Iran, Egypt, and North Korea.
Managing the military and political tension, occasional skirmishes, and threat of war
will be a challenge. Countries such as Japan, that have a great deal of social cohesion
(meaning the government is able to effectively engage its population in changing
behavior) are most likely to fair well. Countries whose diversity already produces
conflict, such as India, South Africa and Indonesia, will have trouble maintaining
order. Adaptability and access to resources will be key. Perhaps the most frustrating
challenge abrupt climate change will pose is that we’ll never know how far we are
into the climate change scenario and how many more years – 10, 100, 1000 --- remain
before some kind of return to warmer conditions as the thermohaline circulation
starts up again. When carrying capacity drops suddenly, civilization is faced with
new challenges that today seem unimaginable.
Could This Really Happen?
Ocean, land, and atmosphere scientists at some of the world’s most prestigious
organizations have uncovered new evidence over the past decade suggesting that the
plausibility of severe and rapid climate change is higher than most of the scientific
community and perhaps all of the political community is prepared for. If it occurs,
this phenomenon will disrupt current gradual global warming trends, adding to
climate complexity and lack of predictability. And paleoclimatic evidence suggests
that such an abrupt climate change could begin in the near future.
The Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute reports that seas surrounding the North
Atlantic have become less salty in the past 40 years, which in turn freshens the deep
ocean in the North Atlantic. This trend could pave the way for ocean conveyor
collapse or slowing and abrupt climate change.
Abrupt Climate Change 20
34.96
34.94
34.92
34.90
34.88
34.86
34.84
34.82
34.80
1970 1975 1980 1985 1990 1995 2000
Representational Graph
SALINITY MEDIAN
YEAR
Northeast Atlantic
Denmark Strait
Labrador Sea
The above graphic shows early evidence that a thermohaline circulation collapse may be imminent,
as the North Atlantic is increasingly being freshened by surrounding seas that have become less
salty over the past 40 years.2
2 Adapted from I Yashayaev, Bedford Institute of Oceanography as seen in Abrupt Climate Change, Inevitable
Surprises, National Research Council.
Abrupt Climate Change 21
The above two headlines appeared in Nature Magazine in 2001 and 2002, respectively. They
suggest that the North Atlantic salinity level may lower, increasing the likelihood of a
thermohaline circulation collapse.
With at least eight abrupt climate change events documented in the geological
record, it seems that the questions to ask are: When will this happen? What will the
impacts be? And, how can we best prepare for it? Rather than: Will this really happen?
Are we prepared for history to repeat itself again?
There is a debate in newspapers around the globe today on the impact of human
activity on climate change. Because economic prosperity is correlated with energy
use and greenhouse gas emissions, it is often argued that economic progress leads to
climate change. Competing evidence suggests that climate change can occur,
regardless of human activity as seen in climate events that happened prior to modern
society.
It’s important to understand human impacts on the environment – both what’s done
to accelerate and decelerate (or perhaps even reverse) the tendency toward climate
change. Alternative fuels, greenhouse gas emission controls, and conservation efforts
are worthwhile endeavors. In addition, we should prepare for the inevitable effects
of abrupt climate change – which will likely come regardless of human activity.
Here are some preliminary recommendations to prepare the United States for abrupt
climate change:
1) Improve predictive climate models. Further research should be conducted so
more confidence can be placed in predictions about climate change. There
needs to be a deeper understanding of the relationship between ocean
patterns and climate change. This research should focus on historical, current,
and predictive forces, and aim to further our understanding of abrupt climate
change, how it may happen, and how we’ll know it’s occurring.
2) Assemble comprehensive predictive models of climate change impacts.
Substantial research should be done on the potential ecological, economic,
social, and political impact of abrupt climate change. Sophisticated models
and scenarios should be developed to anticipate possible local conditions. A
system should be created to identify how climate change may impact the
global distribution of social, economic, and political power. These analyses
can be used to mitigate potential sources of conflict before they happen.
3) Create vulnerability metrics. Metrics should be created to understand a
country’s vulnerability to the impacts of climate change. Metrics may include
climatic impact on existing agricultural, water, and mineral resources;
technical capability; social cohesion and adaptability.
Abrupt Climate Change 22
4) Identify no-regrets strategies. No-regrets strategies should be identified and
implemented to ensure reliable access to food supply and water, and to ensure
national security.
5) Rehearse adaptive responses. Adaptive response teams should be established
to address and prepare for inevitable climate driven events such as massive
migration, disease and epidemics, and food and water supply shortages.
6) Explore local implications. The first-order effects of climate change are local.
While we can anticipate changes in pest prevalence and severity and changes
in agricultural productivity, one has to look at very specific locations and
conditions to know which pests are of concern, which crops and regions are
vulnerable, and how severe impacts will be. Such studies should be
undertaken, particularly in strategically important food producing regions.
7) Explore geo-engineering options that control the climate. Today, it is easier
to warm than to cool the climate, so it might be possible to add various gases,
such as hydrofluorocarbons, to the atmosphere to offset the affects of cooling.
Such actions, of course, would be studied carefully, as they have the potential
to exacerbate conflicts among nations.
Conclusion
It is quite plausible that within a decade the evidence of an imminent abrupt climate
shift may become clear and reliable. It is also possible that our models will better
enable us to predict the consequences. In that event the United States will need to
take urgent action to prevent and mitigate some of the most significant impacts.
Diplomatic action will be needed to minimize the likelihood of conflict in the most
impacted areas, especially in the Caribbean and Asia. However, large population
movements in this scenario are inevitable. Learning how to manage those
populations, border tensions that arise and the resulting refugees will be critical.
New forms of security agreements dealing specifically with energy, food and water
will also be needed. In short, while the US itself will be relatively better off and with
more adaptive capacity, it will find itself in a world where Europe will be struggling
internally, large number so refugees washing up on its shores and Asia in serious
crisis over food and water. Disruption and conflict will be endemic features of life.

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

[liakopoulos]

HEY JAY, GIVE US YOUR OPPINION ON SOMETHIN' IN YOUR FIELD American Standard Collection Right Height Elongated Toilet - Free Shipping


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SHIPPING INCLUDED – see below.

Specifications: 29-1/4” x 17-1/4” x 33”; 12” rough-in; 1.6 gallons per flush

[liakopoulos]

SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION FROM JAY TO ALL OF YOU:UNLIKE body functions like dance, drama and songs, defecation is considered very lowly. As a result very few scholars documented precisely the toilet habits of our predecessors. The Nobel Prize winner for Medicine (1913) Charles Richet attributes this silence to the disgust that arises from noxiousness and lack of usefulness of human waste. Others point out that as sex organs are the same or nearer to the organs of defecation, those who dared to write on toilet habits were dubbed either as erotic or as vulgar and, thus, despised in academic and social circles. It was true for example of Urdu poets in India, English poets in Britain and French poets in France. However, as the need to defecate is irrepressible, so were some writers who despite social as well as academic stigma wrote on the subject and gave us at least an idea in regard to toilet habits of human beings. Based on this rudimentary information, one can say that development in civilization and sanitation have been co-terminus. The more developed was the society, the more sanitized it became and vice versa.

Toilet is part of history of human hygiene which is a critical chapter in the history of human civilization and which cannot be isolated to be accorded unimportant position in history. Toilet is a critical link between order and disorder and between good and bad environment.

In my own country i.e. India, how can any one ignore the subject of toilet when the society is faced with human excretions of the order of 900 million liters of urine and 135 million kilograms of fecal matter per day with totally inadequate system of its collection and disposal. The society, thus, has a constant threat of health hazards and epidemics. As many as 600 out of 900 million people do open defecation. Sewerage facilities are available to no more than 30 per cent of population in urban areas and only 3 per cent of rural population has access to pour flush latrines.

Seeing this challenge, I think the subject of toilet is as important if not more than other social challenges like literacy, poverty, education and employment. Rather subject of toilet is more important because lack of excremental hygiene is a national health hazard while in other problems the implications are relatively closer to only those who suffer from unemployment, illiteracy and poverty. I thus view a study of the history of toilet an important subject matter.

As long as man did not have an established abode, he did not have a toilet. He excreted wherever he felt like doing so. When he learnt to have a fixed house, he moved toilet to courtyard and then within his home. Once this was done, it became a challenge to deal with smell and the need was felt to have a toilet, which can intake human wastes and dispose these of out of the house instantly and, thus, help maintain cleanliness. Man tried various ways to do so i.e. chamber pots, which were cleaned manually by the servants or slaves, toilets protruding out of the top floor of the house or the castle and disposal of wastes in the river below, or common toilets with holes on the top and flowing river or stream underneath or just enter the river or stream and dispose of the waste of the human body. While the rich used luxurious toilet chairs or close stools the poor defecated on the roads, in the jungle or straight into the river.

It was only in the 16th century that a technological breakthrough came about and which helped the human beings to have clean toilets in houses. This breakthrough did not come about easily and human race had to live in unsanitary conditions for thousands of years. For all to know the history of toilet we have established in New Delhi the Sulabh International Museum of Toilets with the help of curators like Dr. Fritz Lischka from Austria and 80 to 90 other professionals around the world. The museum traces history of toilet for the last 4500 years.

Historical Evolution

The perusal of literature brings home the fact that we have only fragmentary information on the subject of toilet as a private secluded place to help the body relieve its waste. Sitting type toilets in human history appeared quite early. In the remains of Harappa civilization in India, at a place called Lothal 62 kilometers from the city of Ahmedabad in Western India) and in the year 2500 BC, the people had water borne toilets in each house and which was linked with drains covered with burnt clay bricks. To facilitate operations and maintenance, it had manhole covers, chambers etc. It was the finest form of sanitary engineering. But with the decline of Indus valley civilization, the science of sanitary engineering disappeared from India. From then on, the toilets in India remained primitive and open defecation became rampant.

The archaeological excavations confirm existence of sitting type toilets in Egypt (2100 BC) also. Though we have been able to mechanize the working of these toilets, the form and basic format of the toilet system remains the same. In Rome, public bath-cum-toilets were also well developed. There were holes in the floor and beneath was a flowing water. When the Romans traveled they constructed the toilets for their use. The stools were keyhole type so that these could be used for defecation as well as urination. Excavations in Sri Lanka and Thailand too have brought out a contraption in which urine was separated and allowed to flow while the other portion was used at the same time for defecation.

Historical evidence exists that Greeks relieved themselves out of the houses. There was no shyness in use of toilet. It was frequent to see at dinner parties in Rome slaves bringing in urine pots made of silver; while members of the royalty used it but continued the play at the same time. Whatever little information is available about history of toilets in India, it was quite primitive. This practice of covering waste with earth continued till the Mughal era, where in the forts of Delhi and Agra one can see remnants of such methodologies to dispose of human waste.

It was also popular in those days to emphasize on the medicinal values of human waste. Urine was supposed to have many therapeutic values. Some quacks even claimed that by study of urine they could confidently say whether a young girl was virgin or not. Hiroshi Umino reports that a Pharaoh got his eye cured by use of urine of a woman, whom he later married. It was also widely believed that the dung of a donkey mixed with night soil removes black pustules or urine of a eunuch can help make women fertile. For oral care it was advised to relieve oneself on one's feet because the divine liquid gives the required cure. In the Indian scriptures there are stories about the strength of wrestlers. If a wrestler defecates too much, he is relatively weak because he cannot digest all what he eats. Similarly, a perfect saint has no need to defecate, for he eats as much as he can digest or he is able to digest all that he eats. So not to defecate was considered saintly while in other societies not to defecate was considered manly. Blown Bettelheim states that men of Chaga tribe blocked their anus during the ceremony of attaining of manhood and pretended as if they did not defecate at all. This was also one way of establishing superiority over women. The ancient Greeks it is reported had similar beliefs. Swallowing something and not taking them out was considered as source of power and authority.


In Middle Ages, people used to throw excreta from their houses on the roads below.
Between the period 500 to 1500 AD was a dark age from the point of view of human hygiene. It was an era of cesspools and human excreta all around. Rich man's housing and forts in India had protrusions in which defecation was done and the excrements fell into the open ground or the river below. The forts of Jaiselmer in India and big houses on the banks of rivers bear testimony to this fact. In Europe it was an era of chamber pots, cesspools and close stools. So were the toilets protruding out of the castles and the excrements from which fell into the river.

It was also an era of "liberty to pee" French poet Claude le Petit described Paris as 'Ridiculous Paris' and in the following words:


"My shoes my stockings, my overcoat
My collar, my glove, my hat
Have all been soiled by the same substance
I would mistake myself rubbish"
There was lot of jest and humor relating to toilet habits and toilet appurtenances. Ballets were performed with basket of night soil in the form of hood, on the head or a tin plate commode moving around with toilet sounds. The clothes were spotted with accessories from the toilet. The actors were etronice (night soil) Sultan Prime of Foirince (i.e. diarrhea) etc. There are stories given by Guerrand, which depict the mood of Europe at that time. A lady of noble birth requested a young man to hold his hand. The young man suddenly feels the urge to urinate. Forgetting that he is holding the hand of a lady of noble birth he relieves himself. At the end he says "excuse me Madam, there was lot of urine in my body and was causing great inconvenience", Similarly Maid of honor Anne of Austria owing to excessive laughter, urinated in the bed of the queen. Joseph Pujol (hero extraordinary of French scatology) in his shows demonstrated many types of farts i.e. young girl, mother-in-law, bride. He could even extinguish a candle 30 centimeters away through his farting.

Poetry on Night soil:
Irrepressible poets in many countries despite social stigma attached to their professional work were writing poetry on defecation habits, farting and heavenly qualities of night soil. Chakrian in India, Euslrog de Beaulieo Gilles Corrozal and Piron in France, Swift in England were all enjoying themselves at the technological impasse which human beings were faced with in disposing of what they excreted.

Gilles Corrozel for example described the toilet in the following vein i.e.

"Recess of great comfort
Whether it is situated
in the fields or in the city
Recess in which no one dare enter
Except for cleaning his stomach
Recess of great dignity" 7

Or take the erotic French Poet Eustrog de beaulieu and I dare to translate as follows:

"When the cherries become ripe
Many black soils of strange shapes
Will breed for many days and urgents
Then will mature and become products of various colors and breaths" 8
French poet Piron called the faeces as 'Royal Nightsoil. Though ostracized by the academic community he wrote as follows:

"What am I seeing oh! God
It is night soil
What a wonderful substance it is It is excreted by
the greatest of all Kings
Its odor speaks of majesty" 9


Public baths were quite famous in early Rome (about 200 BC)
English poet called night soil as object of contemplation for the sage. According to him, midwives predicted the future of the child from examining the first excrement. In the province of Punjab in India and before independence Grandmothers ate the first excrement of the male child if he was born after a long period of marriage or after number of female births in the family.

The Urdu poet Chirkin in India was not well recognized by his poet fraternity. Out of vengeance and to create embarrassment he wrote on human waste and farting. I venture to share with you the following English version translated from Urdu-the language in which he wrote.

"The asset which I will earn
now will all be invested in Toilet.
This time when I visit your home,
I will never 'pee' there."
Public Habits and Attitude

In the absence of proper toilet facilities, people perforce had to defecate and urinate wherever they could. Defecating on the road, open spaces, or just easing themselves in the river was very common.

While the authorities were educating people to have private places for defecating, and getting it cleaned, in actual practice there was total disorder. Squalor and filth abounded in cities. The social reformers advised people where to defecate, how to defecate in privacy and the need to control themselves when in company. Children were taught not to touch human waste. At the same time, there was no hesitation in letting loose pigs to eat human excreta.

Number of enactments, however, could not prevent people to defecate in the open. A delegation led by master weaver protested in front of the French Municipal Building and said" our fathers have defecated at the place where you prevent us to do. We have defecated here and now our children will defecate there".

The rich used wool or hemp for ablution while the poor used grass, stone or sand or water depending upon the country and weather conditions or social customs. Use of newspaper was also common. In Russia to the utter dislike of all, the subordinates even stamped the toilet paper with imperial arms for use of the Czar. But in was termed as sacrilege. The final solution to the problem of ablution was found when in 1857, Joseph Cayetty invented the toilet paper in USA. This invention has enabled human beings to have a tissue paper, which is convenient to use, is absorbent, as well as compact and within reach while defecating.

In India it is very common to use water for ablution. However, the hand one uses varies in various parts of India. While in South India, people use the right hand for eating food, it is considered disgusting to use the same hand for ablution with water. So left hand is used for sanitary purposes. In most parts of the North India, however, no such sharp distinction exists.

Household hygiene habits of ordinary people left much to be desired. The dry latrines using bucket was cleaned by menials. These workers came to be known as Bucket Brigades'.

According to Hiroshi Umino, European culture blossomed forth after contact with Crusaders from the East. Washing hands for example before food also became popular. The social reformers admonished the people by saying "suck your fingers beast, do not wipe them on the wall". In colonial times in India, the British called big; cities as "vast mass privy" due to defecation by people at all times and at all places. There were also no separate toilets for men and women, till a restaurant in Paris put up 'Men Toilet' and 'Women Toilet' at a dance party in 1739 AD.

It is also around this time that the urinal pot was introduced to enable men to relieve themselves. The facilities for women were niggardly and they were taught virtues of control. Despite technological breakthrough a lot needed to be accomplished to educate people to use the new technology appropriately, to ensure that the toilet drainage system is not misused by disposal of other household wastes. However, at city level the disposal of human waste still remained a problem.

Public Toilets and People

In each society from time to time the government felt the need to provide public toilet facilities to those who could not afford to have individual toilets. The public toilets have a long history in number of countries and most of which were constructed and managed by municipalities. But there was all around disgust with their poor maintenance, vandalism and lack of basic facilities. The Mughal King Jehangir built a public toilet at Alwar, 120 kms away from Delhi for use of 100 families at a time in 1556 AD. Not much documentary evidence exists on the quality of its maintenance but one can well visualize that with rudimentary technology and with government to manage the O&M functions, it like others must be in very unsatisfactory condition. As hygienic conditions in public toilets were bad, people preferred to do open defecation. This was true in most of the countries. It was in 1872 that the municipalities in France asked the private companies to manage public toilets for a lease period of 20 years. The private companies were also offering even amounts to government as they felt confident to recover the same through user charges. Ground floor owners were also being requested to construct latrines for use of the passersby. Previously known as Palais Royal Hotel in Paris, the owners started charging monthly fee from diners. Incidentally condoms were also sold as part of the facilities.

In India, when I founded Sulabh International in 1970 in a small village in Patna, people laughed at me when I proposed to introduce the pay-and-use toilets. But my approach has succeeded and today 10 million people use Sulabh facilities every day. Most of the public toilets are being given to us to construct and maintain on a 30 years base period at no charge to the State. At the beginning of the century most of the public toilets have gone underground in Europe, but in India these are still over ground. Much more attention is being given to construct these toilets on pay and use basis in slum areas where men pay half a rupee per use, the females and children avail of these facilities free. The facilities available include toilet, bathing or washing of clothes and to change clothes. We are also setting up primary health care center at these places. However, a lot of effort is required to get people's participation in efficient operation and maintenance of public toilets. This remains a big challenge to be met by NGOs. Based on my experience of the last 25 years, I am also convinced that only cooperation between Government and NGOs can make the sanitation program a success. Neither the NGOs nor the government can create an impact if they work in isolation.

Law and Citizens

In order to improve sanitary conditions, Governments in various countries also resorted to legal measures. Dirt by definition was considered as disorder, because it disrupts order of maintaining the environment.

In 1519 the provincial government of Normandy in France made provision of toilets compulsory in each house. The French government also passed a parliamentary decree to make cesspools in each house compulsory. Again a similar attempt was made in 1539. In Bordeaux in France, the government made construction of cesspools compulsory. It was tried again in 1668 when the Lieutenant of Police made construction of toilets compulsory. In England the first sanitation law was passed in 1848. In India the first sanitation bill was introduced in 1878. It tried to make construction of toilets compulsory even in huts of Calcutta - the capital of India at that time. The Bill even proposed construction of public toilets at the cost of neighboring houses. The government of India enacted another Sanitation Act in 1993. Under this Act construction of dry latrine and its manual cleaning was made an offence. But despite these enactments open defecation is rampant, proving that unless adequate social awareness is created in a developing country where instruments of state are weak and family income is low, it is a hard task to make significant progress in this area.

Toilet Technologies

Eighteenth century was a century of toilets. Despite invention of water closet by John Harrington in 1596, which was, costing only 6 shillings and 8 pence this was not adopted on a large scale for almost 182 years. The delays in actual use of invention is common in human history, which Toffler calls as "Cultural Gap". It was true for railway train, ballpoint pen and innumerable other inventions. During this period people used earth closet. In these toilets instead of water earth was used. So the problem of cleaning remained. The world also saw development of Pan closets - which like cigarette ashtray threw the material at the bottom. This too required manual cleaning. At the same time chamber pots, close stools, open defecation remained. In comparison to this, Harrington's toilet under the name Angrez was being used in France, though not introduced on a large scale in England. In 1738 JF Brondel introduced the valve type flush toilet. Alexander Cummings further improved the technology and gave use a better device in 1775. In Cumming's design water was perennially there in the toilet so it suppressed odors. Still the working of the valve and foolproof inlet of water needed further improvements. In 1777; Joseph Preiser provided the required improvement. Then Joseph Bramah in 1778, substituted the slide valve with crank valve, It seemed then that the technology of pour flush was now perfected. No the world was yet to witness further technological developments. In 1870, SS Helior invented the flush type toilet, called optims - an improvement over Blummer's design.

From 1880 onwards, however, the emphasis has been more on aesthetics to make cisterns and bowls decorative. The bowls were so colorful that some suggested to use these as soup bowls. It was in 1880 that the toilet curtains made their appearance. The trend was called the age of "Belleepoque" in France and Edwardian (opulence) in England. During 1890 we had the first cantilever type of toilet. Since then the world has not witnessed any significant technical change except some change in shape of toilets and reduction in quantity of water per use.

It was around 1900 that the institution of bathroom came in vogue in Europe. In India the institution of Gushalkhana (bathroom) was established by the Mughal Kings in 1556. Oppressed by the heat and dust the Kings constructed luxurious bathing and massage facilities. But this was only for the rich. The ordinary citizens however lived in unsanitary conditions.

Unlike in the past when latrines were tucked away in attics to keep it away from nose and eye of the family and the society. In contrast the twentieth century has given a pride of place to toilet in the home-rather these are more opulent, more spacious than anytime in the past. While the provision of toilet in the house solved household problem of cleanliness but the challenge remained as to how to dispose of human waste at city level. This was also solved when the sewerage system was introduced. Haussmann in 1858, describes beautifully the sewerage system. He said that "the underground galleries which are the organs of the big city will work in the same way as organs of the body, without being revealed.

The pure and fresh water, the heat and light will circulate like the various fluids whose movement and maintenance are necessary to ensure life. The secretions will not mysteriously like place there and maintain public health without disturbing the order of the city and spoiling its outer beauty". Around the same time the sewerage system was introduced at Calcutta - capital of colonial India. However its extension in the country was and remains slow as it is capital intensive and beyond the resource capacity of the economy even today.

In 1970, realizing that sewerage facilities will remain out of the reach of the society at large, Sulabh International introduced a pioneer technology twin pourflush latrines and human excreta based Biogas plants. We have constructed in the last 25 years over 650,000 toilet cum bath complexes and 62 human excreta based biogas plants and are maintaining them. I believe this gives an appropriate solution to dispose of and recycle human waste into fertilizer, electricity and working gas.

Summing up

As sewerage based toilet remains and will remain out of the reach of the majority of population in India, the challenge is to propagate and ensure installation of toilets, which are affordable, upgradeable and easy to maintain. The Sulabh experiment is a success story and the technology is well established and has been successfully functioning for the last 25 years and is financially sustainable. At household level TPPF latrine based on Sulabh Model has also been a success and is in use in 650,000 households. It is however, now necessary in India to replicate it on a mass scale with public pay and use toilets with Biogas plants at neighborhood level and Sulabh TPPF latrine at household level.

Though the challenge to provide toilet facilities have been totally overcome in rich countries, it has still to be met in developing countries like India. The journey of toilet has ended in Europe and North America but continues in the developing countries.

[/b]

[liakopoulos]

WHAT IS THE SECRET RELATION BETWEEN JAY AND SHITHEAD9?

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

[liakopoulos]

WHAT IS THE SECRET RELATION BETWEEN JAY AND SHITHEAD9 ? .......... 1000 $ TO THE WINNER

[liakopoulos]

JAY IN ACTION AT ARIANNA'S!!!!!!!!!!

[liakopoulos]

JAY'S EQUIPMENT

[liakopoulos]

PICTURE OF JAY TAKEN BY THE MOSSAD CAMERA

[liakopoulos]

EVIDENCE WILL FREELY FLOW TO ALL READERS WITHOUT BEING SENSORED.

[liakopoulos]

OUR PROPOSAL TO JAY FOR HIS OWN COMFORT

[liakopoulos]

DEAR JAY I AM NOT A TOILET DESIGNER BUT THE ABOVE PROPOSAL IS THE RESULT OF MY LOVE FOR YOU!

[liakopoulos]

MOSSAD AGENT IN ACTION

[liakopoulos]

DEAR JAY, LIKE I SAID BEFORE,"SMART I LIKE, SMART ASH I DON'T". IF YOU GO BACK TO PAGE 1 YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT YOU HAD THE CHANCE OF A TRUE DIALOGUE. IN THE FOLLOWING PAGES YOU STARTED INSULTING ME FOR NO APPARENT REASON. YOU CALLED ME A FASIST ,A RACIST, AN IDIOT , A CONMAN, A FRAUD, A SOUVLAKI LIAKOPOULOS ETC, ETC, ETC.............THE DEBATE IS OVER..........PLEASE STAY AND AMUSE US...........THE PROPOSED TOILET HAS A COPYRIGHT..DO NOT ,REPEAT NOT, COPY IT.

[liakopoulos]

TEXAS ONION FROM JAY'S BACKYARD. THE ONLY ONE THAT SURVIVED. JAY IS REALLY THE MASTER OF DISASTER.

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

[Bonehead9]

YOU WILL RECEIVE NO KNOWLEDGE IN PHYSICS FROM ME.

Well that is obvious. Why would I expect to get anything where nothing is to be found?

[Bonehead9]

INFORM US ABOUT THE RESULT SHITHEAD

195, what was yours? 76?

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

[gaiacomm]

Bonehead:

Its amazing the stuff you keep on your computer!

You need to improve your firewall protection or change your isp!

[lynn george]

So is it your purpose to bury all of my and others posts that deal with chemtrails and geoengineering ,with constant spamming about onions and toilets. Perhaps you could start another thread or two, maybe dealing with toilets on one, and perhaps onions on one, and perhaps a third on non-obvious de-bunker techniques.


But for anyone else concerned about the topics here, as I described before today was a MASSIVE spray day one of the most blatant I have seen in the last several months. Two days ago we had intermittant clouds and NO chemtrails NOT ONE, with jets flying what we have come to observe as normal patterns, mostly east/west, fairly sporadic, and leaving only the seconds long quickly disapating contrails. Yesterday the sky was magnificant blue with jet traffic again fairly sporadic, "normal" for this area flight paths being flown and again jets leaving only quickly disapatting contrails. Today however upon arising I noticed numerous persistant trails had been left out in the west apparently overnight in a mostly unusual north/south direction. Then several planes came and put down persistant trails in the north. Then some out to the east. Then planes started coming so fast, spreading huge bilowing smokey like white trails, and they started flying directly at each other making huge white fluffy X's and they started turning semicircle's and flying straight and then veering of at right angles. What an amazing show! Though the sky had been originally a pretty blue this huge programs looked like a nest of hornets out, it was really quite amazing. And luckily we got it on VIDEO. And we captured scattered regular traffic flying through the same area leaving only seconds long contrails and in one case I actually filmed this 'commercial' looking plane flying the usual east west route leaving absolutely NO trail all the while these 'hornets' were OBLITERATING the blue in the sky and turning it to a WHITE HAZE. Teller said the whiteness of the sky would be easily observable to the public during aplications of his "sky shield' and it seemed to be a concern people would notice. And some definately are. I will try and get some pics of today on here, it was really really quite amazing. Blatant, in your face, CHEMTRAILING!

SmT

[Bonehead9]

SMT - and of course you have some evidence that this wasn't just the normal airline traffic over your area, don't you?

Did you happen to track any of the planes with Flight Explorer?

Did you check the local real time NEXRAD radar images for your area to see if any of those "aluminum" trails were showing up on the radar images?

Did you chech to see if there were any large weather fronts moving through your area?

[halva]

SmT I still haven't got any information on the matter you were asking about.

Could you read my message on the other thread please?

Thanks,

WH

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

[halva]

SmT, one thing that I have asked is that the Chemtrails 911 group in Santa Cruz California
http://www.skyhighway.com/%7Echemtrails/index.html

respond to the document by Mitralias of the OIKIA group

http://www.ariannaonline.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

It would be good for these two grassroots action groups to understand each other better, indeed to know of each other's existence.

Another good person for co-ordinating with is Brian Holmes in Canada:
http://www.holmestead.ca

I have the impression that something has gone wrong at CTC and that someone's intellectual faculties are not up to dealing with the input they are receiving.

[jayreynolds]

Wayne hall wrote:
"I have the impression that something has gone wrong at CTC and that someone's intellectual faculties are not up to dealing with the input they are receiving."

Wayne, aren't you aware that Mech reads this forum several times/day?
When he sees what you just said, be certain, your days at his board are numbered.

SMT(lynn george)-
Go back to page 71 on Friday. You will see that I predicted the contrails you verified on Saturday, and that Sunday would be clear.

How did I do that?
Think about it.

[halva]

Wayne, aren't you aware that Mech reads this forum several times/day?
When he sees what you just said, be certain, your days at his board are numbered.
[/b][/size][/color]

Reynolds if you are lucky he might even invite you back to take my place.

Keep your fingers crossed.

WH

[liakopoulos]

WHAT IS THE SECRET RELATION BETWEEN SHITHEAD9 AND JAY?

[liakopoulos]

TO SHITHEAD9: CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR RESULT AT THE IQ TEST FOR RETARDS...

[halva]

Liakopoulos I was expecting some real-world developments from you this weekend.

BUT YOU ARE TOO BUSY ON-LINE!!!!

[lynn george]

Bonehead said"SMT - and of course you have some evidence that this wasn't just the normal airline traffic over your area, don't you?"

SmT- Bone, you mean you can actually read what I wrote and say with a straight face that sounds NORMAL to you??? Well whatever you want to think. But to answer your question directly yes, I have film logs of what "normal" days look like compared to what " Spray" days look like. Let's look at just one scenario. If you or others can actually help RESONABLY explain these events then please do so.

1- April 1st- Sporadic drifting cloud clover all day, sporadic mainly east/west air traffic leaving quickly disapating contrails, ZERO chemtrails present.

2- April 2nd- Solid blue skies in A.M., no clouds, sporadic mainly east/west air traffic leaving quickly disapating contrails, ZERO chemtrails

3- April 3rd -Solid blue skies overhead and surrounding with the exception of large group of persisting trails mainly running "unusual" north/south direction out in the west at approx. 7 A.M. possible left overnight.

4-April 3rd- Aprox 7:45: A.M. first very persistent trails being laid spotted in North. By 8:00, many more jets starting to arrive All leaving billowing white smokey looking chemtrails. By 8:30 the sky is starting to fill with DOZENS of planes all spewing a REMARKABLY different looking type trail. Occasional "regular" air traffic passes through the area leaving either a quickly disapating vapor trail or in one filmed case NO TRAIL. Spraying continues with planes no longer flying the "usual" east/west routes with scattered other paths, but instead the traffic changes to what looks like hornets buzzing about with no apparent destination. Starting to fly in semi-circles, and right at each other in huges x's, the planes continue filling the sky with a massive white to translucent spreading haze, the once blue sky quickly giving way to the Chem Haze. The spraying continues well into the evening.

5- April 4th-"Completely" blue skies once again (minus the ALWAYS present small amounts of particulate matter) an NO visable chemtrails only very few sporadic mainly east/west planes leaving only quickly disapating vapor trails.



Bonehead said"Did you happen to track any of the planes with Flight Explorer? "

SmT- No but that does sound like a good idea, and I have heard it suggested before. I may look into it. BUt along those lines I think keeping a visual and perhaps video documentry is a good idea. I know from past saturdays that the air traffic can increase over this area again mainly East/West flying STRAIGHT through, but NOTHING like what was witnessed yesterday and on many weekdays as well. What was witnessed and FILMED (as evidence) will be compared against what traffic looks like today as I will be continuing to film and compare different days, conditions, and flight paths, and will be compared against simlilar days. What occurred yesterday was IMO BLATANTLY an aerial operation of somekind resulting in a huge release of particulate matter that created the well known ChemHaze.


Bone said " Did you check the local real time NEXRAD radar images for your area to see if any of those "aluminum" trails were showing up on the radar images?

SmT-I have no idea if they are aluminum or not though yes I have heard of course that said along with barium, titanium, etc. possibly being used in some of the programs as suggested in many scientific papers. However also simple suggestions have been made in scientific geoengineering advocacy papers to simply burn a slightly richer mixture for simplly increasing carbon content for cloud building purposes. It is strange here, many days we would not have ANY clouds if it were not for those created by the chemplanes and possibly any also contributed by contrails.


Bonehead said"Did you chech to see if there were any large weather fronts moving through your area?"

SmT- This IS Missouri, Bone. I have lived here all of my life. Weather fronts move across the mid section here all the time, this had nothing to do with that, other than perhaps as has been suggested this is where the U.V. has become high, and spraying goes on often out in front of the fronts. We did just have very heavy rains for days, and it washed alot of the particulate matter down, as was witnessed by the return of a much clearer blue sky. The sky is still blue this morning with ZERO clouds, ZERO chemtrails, and only sporadic very few planes leaving quickly disapating contrails. YesterdaySOME type of aerial operation occured out here, over head that saturated the sky with HAZE. I don't know WHAT was "sprayed" but I have video EVIDENCE of the operation and I am going to continue to compile footage, but also as you suggested become more familiar with ways to add in logs and times.

SmT

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

[gaiacomm]

Contrails Vs Chemtrails -
Facts And Chronology
From Kim Weber <ohwarriorgoddess@earthlink.net>
5-23-00




I. Contrail vs. Chemtrail.

A. A contrail dispurses. A chemtrail spreads into cloud cover and sometimes has fallout (cob-web like filaments, red/yellow powders, milky-white fluid).

II. Purposes (??? weather modification, protection from ozone holes, bio-vaccination, culling - ???)

A. Weather modification.

* Openly stated goal of the U.S. Military is "owning the weather" www.au.af.mil/au/database/research/ay1996/acsc/9025ag.htm

* UN environmental Program "Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change" www.ipcc.ch

* UN "Capacity Development Initiative" on climate change ... in partnership with THE WORLD BANK as financiers (remember Seattle protests) www.gefweb.org/Capacity_Dev.pdf

* Dr. Bernard Eastlund took up the Tesla theories. Eastlund released his research and concernns on the internet AFTER the military took over, to cover his butt. www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/HPEMRAD/Eastlund.htm

* When DOD took over Dr. Eastlund's research, the birth of HAARP took place. HAARP is based in Alaska and it is being applied to the Earth's ionosphere for weather control and mind control purposes. "Angels Don't Play This HAARP", Dr. Nick Begich [Earthpulse Press, PO Box 201393, Anchorage, AK 99520]; Concerned citizens group paper at www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/project116.html

* US Air Force IS involved. Early April 2000, KC135s were grounded and during the period immediately following spraying reports across the US significantly dropped. See http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/chemtrailtrackingusa (OVER 700 members - daily reports to track) Also see the research of William Thomas (Author, "The Scorched Earth", "Bringing The War Home", "Probing the Chemtrail Conundrum") www.islandnet.com/~wilco/investsky.htm (Email: wilco@islandnet.com).

* Our weathermen KNOW. The data doesn't support the cloud cover. For instance, last year in Sante Fe, NM there was a 21-day period of continuous clouud cover when humidity/dew point levels were no higher than 30%. Clouds can only form when humidity/dew point levels are 60% of higher. HOW DID THE CLOUDS FORM?? (see www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm)

B. There has definitely been biological warfare testing of UNKNOWING U.S. citizens and OUR GOVERNMENT IS FULLY AWARE OF IT.

* 1977 hearings before the U.S. Senate Committee on Human Resources SubCommittee on Health and Scientific Research (see www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm)

* AGAIN 5/6/94 U.S. Senate testimony of Dr. Leonard Cole (Author, "Clouds of Secrecy") before the Committee on Veteran's Affairs (see www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm)

* 3 segments aired on ABC / Ted Kopple's "Nighline" which included the testimony of Peter Kawaja on the biowarfare exposure of Gulf War vets. Of the initial 697,000 soldiers deployed to the Gulf War, 489,400+ (70%) are now discharged, 1000s have died and are dying, 67% of their babies born after are born deformed, family/friends/doctors/nurses becoming sick. Mycoplasmas are a part of their sickness.

* UN Wildlands Project - the "re-wilding of America". 50% of the United States is being set aside for global parklands with NO HUMANS ALLOWED. Papers state "human population must be reduced." Concerned citizens site www.wildlandsproject.org/htm/summary.htm

* Damning patents. U.S. patent 5534413 for invasive mycoplasma infection (isolated from the urine of AIDS patients), and THE VACCINE YOU NEVER EVER HEAR ABOUT U.S. Patent 5242820. Mycoplasmas can cause Epstein-Barr/mono, lupus, ALS, MS, meningitis, lymphoma, leukemia, alzheimers, Crohn's Disease, PID, arthritis, fibromyalgia, allergies, asthma etc etc etc. http://members.aol.com/ghylak/mycoplasma.htm and www.gulfwarvets.com/article24.htm

* Lab results from ground samples taken from 2 unassociated parties (Sacramento and E.Oregon) after flyovers from unmarked aircraft reveal biowarfare bacterias named in over 160 Pentagon patents referencing biowarfare applications, toxic molds, ethylene dibromide (a pesticide banned by the EPA which damages lungs/heart/liver/kidneys). (See www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm). "The flu that's not the flu" - hospitals filled to capacity TURNING AWAY patients: "THIS VIRUS IS A MUCH MORE SUCCESSFUL PARASITE", Dr. W. Paul Glezen of the Influena Research Center at Baylor. NEVER has "parasite" been associated with a "virus". A parasite FEEDS FROM THE HOST. A virus, on the other hand, NEEDS A SUSCEPTIBLE HOST'S CELLS TO MULTIPLY. What's Dr. Glezen talking about? Dr. Leonard G. Horowitz states: "Based on the evidence that my colleagues and I have accumulated, I conclude that this flu-like illness IS most likely associated with chemical and biological co-factors." His email: tetra@tetrahedron.org.

* Florescent black light reveals filaments - LOTS - which glows blue, red/orange. Contains barium titanate?, a dielectric used to keep electricity flowing. Using this to : trap moisture to create clouds; build up earth pressures to cause earthquakes, tornados, volcanic eruptions; to create extra tension and stress in humans. The fibers are in a twisted ribbon shape ~3-5 microns thick by ~10 to 13 microns wide. They have imperfections that manifest as small clumps of polymer whiskers ~.5 to 1 micron in diameter by ~5 to 10 microns long. There are large enough by themselves and in sufficient quantity to cause possible long-lasting lung disease. WHERE ARE YOU AMERICAN LUNG ASSOCIATION??

* A microsopic particle count study in New Mexico shows a 16% increase in the magnitude of the average microscopic particle count data of 1999 vs. the average of the COMBINED YEARS of 1996, 1997 and 1998. The difference is significant - at the 99.9% plus level. The conclusion reached is that the microscopic air particle count in New Mexico in 1999 is STRIKINGLY different from that of the preceding 3 years combined. (See www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm).

C. Ominous developments.

* Unusual truck activity across the U.S. Trimac Western tanker trucks that DO NOT display DOT placard codes giving their contents, being WAVED THRU mandatory truck inspection stops! People who slow down to take a "look-see" are being shadowed 20-30 miles by civilian cars escorting the tanker trucks. Trimac is owned by Rentokil of the United Kingdom - they haul pesticides and chemicals for BASF, DuPont and Bayer. (See www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm).

* COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT ARE NOW BEING USED TO SPRAY - particularly BOEING planes. Also, an aircraft mechanic from a major airline received anonymous "warning" call, job suspension and threats left in his locker after his observing an extra 50gal. plus 2 smaller gal. tanks located near the aircraft waste disposal system. The extra tanks WERE NOT connected to the waste disposal system, but instead led to a box attached to the aircraft's central control and had piping leading to deliberately "hollowed out" wiring connected to the edges of the aircraft's wings. (See www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm).

* Also there are alot of anti-chemtrail activists reporting harrassment, but on 5/19/00 Cliff Carnicom, owner of the most proactive anti-chemtrail website, contacted the FBI regarding impersonation, libel, professional hacking and death threats. His site alone has submitted 3,087 letters to federal officials, and 828 letters to state officials and TO DATE NO RESPONSE HAS BEEN RECEIVED..

D. Announcements.

* Email Congressman Tom Udall. He told a constituent he would ask for Congressional hearings. Let's hold him up to that. tom.udall@mail.house.gov

* Nationwide organization "Citizens Against Chemtrails" is putting together a massive petition for Congressional hearing purposes. Submit your name/address/email at Cliff site: www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm, or email ohwarriorgoddess@earthlink.net

* Whistleblowers can do so anonymously at www.users.ev1.net/~seektress/tips.htm

[gaiacomm]

HAARP Project
Nikola Tesla Technology

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAARP, Weather War, And EMF Mind Control

Author: Unknown
12-23-97

In May of 1988, I wrote an article for the Canadian Intelligence Service headed "Weather War?"

The preamble written by the editor said this: "Her story, indeed, is 'stranger than fiction.' And it's only the beginning, the first glimpse of a new and uncertain factor in human affairs, opening up unimagined physical possibilities - but also threatening our very survival."

Those words were indeed prophetic. Advanced technology based on the original works of Nikola Tesla is being developed at an alarming rate. This discoverer of alternating current power source and transmission system (among other accomplishments was a genius before his time. In spite of this, his name is unfamiliar to most because soon after his death in 1943 his data was removed from libraries and his only claim to fame now is the Tesla Coil. He hoped his discoveries would be used for peaceful, life-enhancing purposes.)

While traveling in Alaska in the summer of 1994, we visited the Copper Valley area hoping to explore the old mines. A large intimidating sign blocked all access to this region. I didn't think too much of it at the time, however I later learned of a highly secret project being constructed there and was able to locate a book published in Alaska discussing the HAARP system, that being an acronym for High-frequency Active Auroral Research Project.

The authors of "Angels Don't Play This HAARP" base their information on documents they were able to view which came out of secret meeting of the U.S. Government and the U.S. Military. HAARP is a ground-based "Star Wars" weapon which has the capability to manipulate the environment in such a way as to change weather patterns, disrupt global communications systems, disrupt human mental processes, negatively affect health, and impact the Earth's upper atmosphere in an unnatural and damaging way. By interfering with the Earth's magnetic field there is no assurance that damage on an irreversible global scale will not occur.

All participants involved in designing HAARP are part of a giant partnership of government, the military and many private corporations which form defense intelligence contractual networks, and it is done in secret. Critics of the project believe that large groups of independent scientists should be talking a close look at these developments before the project is allowed to continue.

A biggest "ionospheric heater" in the world is located on the HAARP site. Focused energy could be beamed up to the ionosphere where the radio-frequency waves would interact powerfully with charged particles that are always trapped up there.

The heating effect of the focused beam would then dramatically push a plume - a large section of the ionosphere - up and outward from Earth. One critic of the project called it "skybusting."

The Earth is protected from harmful cosmic rays by the Van Allen Radiation Belt in conjunction with the Earth's magnetic field. The ozone layer protect us from ultra-violet light. If this dual barrier is weakened, allowing these high-energy particles from the ionosphere to enter the atmosphere, serve damage could be caused to the DNA blueprints of all life on Earth. This is only one of the disastrous effects of which the HAARP system capable.

Co-author Jean Manning, in conversation with a ham operator, learned that as early as 1975-76 the Soviet Union was beaming radio-frequency signals toward North America. Ham operators were picking up the 10-hertz (pulses per second) frequencies which they called Woodpecker signals because of the tapping they heard from extremely low frequency (ELF) waves. It was speculated that his ELF frequency could resonate the neurons in the human brain over great distance, resulting in mood changes in a large part of the population.

These ELF waves could cause communication interference, power failures, and weather modification designed to have a devastating effect on food production.

HAARP records disclose that when the project is up to full power, it will be able to send very low frequency and extra low frequency (VLF and ELF) waves at energy levels sufficient to affect entire regional populations. What other objective can there be but to control people?

What is even more ominous is the authors' picture of what they refer to as the "psychocivilized society." After reviewing HAARP documents and Air Force materials, the possibility is there for the HAARP transmitting system to be used "inadvertently or intentionally to after mental functions." Early research on the brain was conducted on animals, using electrodes inserted into the brain to produce different kinds of behavior. Dr. Jose M.R. Delgado developed his research so that brain-manipulating effects could be achieved at a distans, and by changing wave form, could completely change the thinking and emotional state of the subject. Even these achievements can and are being used to help people with various mental dysfunctions, but the potential for abuse appears too easy to resist for the "mad scientists" working on HAARP.

A European leader in alternative medicine, Dr. Reijo Makela has developed a technique whereby a patient's chemistry is rebalanced by using a combination of low levels of chemicals and the right frequency from a properly-tuned transmitter. He has had enormous success in treating debilitating diseases.

However, the military approach can be used for just the opposite result. A tiny amount of chemical (below generally accepted levels for toxicity) could be introduced to the enemy by some means (perhaps water or air supply); then the right frequency could be directed toward them, activating the otherwise harmless chemicals. This would render the enemy powerless, and international agreements regarding chemical warfare would not have been violated.

A radio transmitter carrying a pulsed wave of 6-12 pulses per second, acting in resonance with the radio waves which serve as a carrier, could it modulated in just the right way disrupt minds and cause serious negative health effects on humans and animals. This technology is well within the capability of HAARP and they intend to use it.

We are now the age of sophisticated electromagnetic technology which can interfere with the Earth's magnetic fields all the way up to the ionosphere. The consequences of such aggressive tampering with our natural environment are not known, nor to the HAARP designers seem to care, brushing aside any attempts to develop a regulatory presence. Frustrating those who are anti-HAARP is the veil of secrecy and deception which covers the project.

In order to "prepare" the people to accept these mind-bogging advances in technology, little bits of information are "leaked" out, like a trial balloon, to test the reaction. However, it seems that basic strategy and application remain committed to secrecy.

Perhaps the most ominous aspect of the HAARP technology is the connecting of the military non-lethal research with civilian law enforcement agencies. This means that law conforcement can use this technology against the government's domestic "adversaries" - one can only surmise who these adversaries might be. We are given a clue in the policy for non-lethal weapons which states: The term 'adversary' is used .. in its broadest sense, including those who are not declared enemies but who are engaged in activities we wish to stop... Bear in mind that these weapons are "invisible" - when used to alter thinking and behavior the victims is unaware of an "attack."

The authors provide a brief history of discoveries relating to the field of electromagnetic, beginning with Tesla's inventions in 1886 and ending with HAARP. Since 1994 HAARP has been testing its equipment, with 1998 being the projected date for a fully-operating system. The authors also warn us that it is not just the United States citizens who are in jeopardy - the HAARP system is a universal tool.

As early as 1975, the Canadian government was aware of the use of weather modification as a weapon. Are they also aware of the expanded technology of the HAARP system? Since this use of electromagnetics will affect every one of us in some way, perhaps it would be appropriate to question your MP.

Will this be the modus operandi to bring in the New World Order?

(Angels Don't Play This HAARP" - Advances In Tesla Technology, by Jean Manning and Dr. Nick Begich).

Back To Top Secret Projects

[liakopoulos]

ALRIGHT, SINCE GAIA STARTED IT, LET'S CONTINUE. ARE FLAT CLOUDS DEVELOPED AT 30000 FEET USEFUL TO ONE OF THE HAARP SYSTEMS IF THEY CONTAIN ALUMINIUM PARTICLES? LET ME GIVE YOU THE INFO THAT AT THE AKROTIRI BRITISH BASE AT CYPRUS ISRAEL ,USA AND THE BRITS HAVE DEVELOPED A FULLY FUNCTIONAL HAARP SYSTEM.

[liakopoulos]

HEY JAY, REMEMBER MY QUESTION? WHAT CAN SOMEONE DO IF HE HAS: 1)a flat cloud at 30000 feet containing metallic particles. 2) a 10 gigawatt ELF saurce .3) a perverted mind.

[halva]

Keep it up Liakopoulos.

Reynolds really only wants to argue with people who would prefer not to be arguing.

He will probably fall silent soon.

[liakopoulos]

ALRIGHT BOYS AND GIRLS LET'S PLAY BALL Simulations of ELF radiation generated by heating the high-latitude D- region
H.L. Rowland, Beam Physics Branch, Plasma Physics Division, Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, D.C.

By modulating the ambient current flowing in the ionosphere, e.g., the auroral electrojet, it is possible to generate extremely low frequency (ELF) and very low frequency (VLF) radiation. This ionospheric modification technique can provide such waves for probing both the Earth and the ionosphere- magnetosphere. The modification occurs in the lower D-region and can provide information about the ambient conditions in one of the least diagnosed regions of the ionosphere.

The electrojet is modulated by using a high frequency heater (a few MHZ) with the power modulated at the desired ELF/VLF frequency to heat the ionospheric electrons in the lower D-region. Figure 1a shows a sketch of the heater and heated region. The heated region is typically at 75 km (though this depends upon the carrier frequency) and can be 30 km in diameter and a few km thick. Viewed from above (see Figure 1b) the heated region is a roughly circular patch. The smoothness of the heated region depends upon the antenna radiation pattern as well as D-region conditions. The heating increases the electron-neutral collision rate which changes the conductivities. Since on ELF time scales the ambient electric field is constant, modulating the conductivity produces a current modulated at the same frequency. At these altitudes the conductivity change is predominantly in the Hall conductivity. If the ambient electric field, E, is in ±y direction, a time varying current perturbation is generated, j, in the ±x direction (Fig. 1b). The time varying current launches waves both up and down the Earth's magnetic field. In the simulations shown here, we start with a time-varying current and study the downward propagating waves and how they couple into the Earth-ionospheric wave guide.

Animations

The animations show 5 different representations of the same simulation. The simulation uses a time-varying current perturbation (1 kHz) in the D-region at 75 km. The current is in the magnetic east-west direction. The Earth's magnetic field is vertical. The simulation box is 1800 by 1800 by 120 km. Isosurfaces are shown for the absolute value of the horizontal magnetic field ABSB and of the vertical electric field ABSEZ. Also shown is the east-west magnetic field in the near-field BX1 and in the far-field BX2. Since the field amplitude falls off with distance, BX1 uses a order-of-magnitude larger isosurface value than BX2 to emphasize the field close to the site. The north- south magnetic field is shown in BY1 and BY2. These plots look slightly different from the absolute value plots where both the positive and negative surfaces were shown. Also BX and BY do have a different orientation of the their radiation patterns. The direction of the radiation is determined by the total horizontal field shown in ABSB and by the vertical electric field shown in ABSEZ. The radiation pattern in the earth-ionosphere waveguide is a combination of a linear dipole antenna and a right-hand circular antenna. At ELF frequencies because of low D-region absorption the dipole is dominant. The dipole radiates in the magnetic east-west direction.

Because 1 kHz is below cutoff the mode in the waveguide is a TEM mode. The mode consists of a horizontal B field perpendicular to the direction of propagation and a vertical electric field. With perfect conductors, the mode is uniform in the vertical direction. As the wave propagates in the waveguide, the top of the wave is approximately at the bottom of the ionosphere. Above the heated region, waves are also launched along the Earth's magnetic field. In the near-field ( BX1 and BY1) one can see the pulse being radiated downward. It strikes the ground and reflects back up to the ionosphere. Part of the energy propagates up the field lines into the ionosphere. This is the bubble seen rising up. The D-region is highly collisional and damps this wave. Looking at BX2 and BY2 one can see that the energy mainly stays in the waveguide. If one looks closely at the top of the wave in the waveguide the wave appears to be curved. The waveguide mode is coupling into the bottom of the D-region and driving a whistler mode up the field lines. The whistlers have a much lower velocity than the waveguide mode and can only propagate along the field lines. This acts to curve the top of the waves. These waves help form the bubble that propagates up the field line. Because of this, the diameter of the bubble is much larger than the heated region.

Above the heated region in ABSEZ one can see a pair of coils revolving around each other. These are the currents that flow up and down the Earth's magnetic field forming the current loops associated with the waves propagating up the field lines. Finally, EZ1 is a blow-up of the high-altitude portion of the vertical electric field for positive values of the electric field; the current loop is more clearly seen.

More details can be found in Rowland et al., JGR, 101, 27027, 1996 and Rowland, JGR, 104, 4319, 1999.

This work is supported by the Office of Naval Research and, in part, by a grant of HPC time from the DoD High Performance Computing Center at the Army Research Laboratory, Aberdeen Proving Ground.

[liakopoulos]

YOU MAY TRY: http://ppdweb.nrl.navy.mil/whatsnew/haarp/

[liakopoulos]

NOW DIG THIS JAY--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PANDORA'S BOX


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Some of the most startling information now available regarding such highly classified research and experimentation in ultra-advanced physics, the resultant technologies, and the uses to which such were put can be found in the Montauk Project book series by Preston Nichols and Peter Moon, which provide extensive details on recent activities of the Phoenix Project.

Following the Philadelphia Experiment in 1943, an early attempt at "Stealth" (radar invisibility) and according to some sources literal invisibility as well, which by most accounts ended in uncontrollable and nightmarish failure, such interdimensional research was put on hold while the A-bomb was developed and WW2 was fought and won, certainly against Japan. (In regard to the war against Nazi Germany, however, the outcome was not as clear-cut and decisive as the history books might have one believe -- certainly no atomic bombs were dropped -- and we shall find out more about this further on.) In the late 1940s, realizing that the Phoenix Project lines of research, if properly harnessed, controlled and developed, had astonishing and un-dreamed-of possibilities, clandestine government agencies reopened Pandora's Box.

The worst problems encountered during the Philadelphia Experiment were the extraordinarily destructive and bizarre effects on the human beings who were aboard the battleship used in the experiment. The ship and crew allegedly disappeared from sight for some time: devastating psychological damage as well as horrifying physical results such as sailors being embedded in the metal of the ship when it did reappear (rematerialize) were reportedly some of these effects.

Janus Von Neumann, who was the director of the Philadelphia Experiment, (staying on after Tesla had quit in disgust over his concern about just such effects upon people) was called upon to find out more regarding how human beings were impacted by entering other time-space dimensions and to develop technology which could allow people to do so without severe damage. Von Neumann, who unlike Tesla had little use for metaphysics or parapsychology, soon found himself unable to avoid coming to terms with both the psychic and spiritual aspects of human beings in addition to the material or physical level. Suffice it to say that some element of a person, often called a spirit or soul, must remain in sync with his/her original time-space lock which begins at the time of physical conception (incarnation) while transferring to or returning from other dimensions, if such wide scale destructive results are to be avoided. Von Neumann, exercising once again his prodigious mental abilities, came up with the world's first electronic computer, which had the capability to calculate certain time-space referencing factors with absolute precision -- a necessity for what was to be accomplished; in addition, psychotronic equipment was created which could receive, reconfigure and transmit radio-type frequencies generated by thoughts from the human mind (frequencies which do exist and can be picked up by what are commonly called "psychics" (no, they're not all phony); and by extension, devices which could externally and artificially alter or "control" people's minds.

Among the early objectives of the Phoenix Project have been (and are still! [see info on Project HAARP further on]) achieving weather control capabilities. Secret agencies of the U.S. government and groups associated with such received a big boost in this area, and in development of psychotronic technologies in general, from the research and work of Wilhelm Reich, a veritable genius in a variety of fields; scientific, medical, psychological and metaphysical. Reich demonstrated by extensive experimentation that a form of electromagnetic energy he termed "orgone" energy had a significant impact on psychological states of mind as well as upon such phenomenon as weather conditions.

Regarding the latter, Reich donated his weather-related discoveries and technology to the U.S. government for no financial compensation, as he himself was pursuing other implications of his discoveries. Reich's weather control technology was utilized and further developed by the government, and integrated with other aspects of the Phoenix Project. Partly due to pressure from the AMA, Reich was mercilessly hounded and harassed by federal agents and his Long Island laboratory and research destroyed; he was in fact imprisoned for, among other charges, practicing medicine without a license.

A number of researchers including Preston Nichols assert that the Phoenix Project technologies were developed and perfected to a high degree, to a large extent at facilities on Long Island such as Brookhaven National Labs. Much of this was legitimately funded until the late 1960s when Congress, upon being informed by Brookhaven Labs, Siemens/ITT, A.I.L. and other contractors of the advanced developmental state of, and great effectiveness of, the psychotronic and mind control aspects of the project, prudently decided to end such research at once and for good lest such technology fall into the wrong hands and be used in unacceptable ways. This may have been one of the few recent Congressional actions displaying any real backbone, but unfortunately, the technology was already in the "wrong" hands.

Dismayed by the action of Congress, project directors approached certain members of the intelligence and military hierarchies in secret and unconstitutionally conspired to continue this experimentation, again in secret, at the recently closed down Montauk Air Force Station. Janus Von Neumann was once more made senior scientific director as the Phoenix Project avenues of research were taken to extraordinary new heights. This, the so-called "Montauk Project" specifically, dealt for the most part with psychotronic and interdimensional areas of experimentation. Electromagnetic mind control experiments using high-powered radio frequency transmissions were conducted continually upon visiting servicemen and women "invited" to the base for R&R; upon the population at large in surrounding communities; and most incredibly, upon numerous abducted children.

There are definite indications and testimony that the Montauk Point military facilities were the site of psychological and mind (control) research even before 1969; according to researchers Camp Hero had been known as a "psych" base ever since its inception not long after the federal government acquired the land in 1910 through outright trickery, fraud and deception practiced against its rightful owners -- the Montauk Indian tribe.

Substantial evidence from numerous sources shows that our federal government's intelligence agencies are responsible for an astonishing assortment of mind control experiments and projects, dating back at least 50 years. The Napa (CA) Sentinel ran a lengthy series in 1991 which provided a fairly comprehensive overview of the general "state-of-the-art" in mind control activities in the U.S.; the Washington Post has run some good coverage on the CIA's and NSA's hellacious abuses in this field. The Church (Senate) Committee hearings during the 1970s into the practices of the CIA, NSA and the like in such matters really only scratched the surface of a sordid , brutal and little-known aspect of the U.S. intelligence services' record in this type of experimentation -- almost always involving complete abject abuse of and disregard for constitutional, civil and human rights. In 1994 the Senate Committee on Veteran’s Affairs (chaired by John D. Rockefeller) held hearings into the practices of military and intelligence groups regarding their use of unwitting, unsuspecting "subjects" in a substantial portion of the so-called research done into fields such as testing the effects of chemical/biological weapons and the uses of drugs and configured EM/RF transmissions in mind (and body) control.

At Montauk, to simplify considerably, the basic "research" agenda was as follows. Extremely gifted and rigorously trained psychics were hooked up via psychotronic equipment to computers which converted the waveforms of their thoughts to (digital) computer code, and also relayed the waveforms to exceptionally high-powered EM/RF transmitters which broadcast thought, mind and consciousness-altering signals. According to accounts, certain experiments achieved materialization, at varying levels of stability and solidity, of objects visualized by the psychics whose thoughts were then broadcast, as well as teleportation effects. (IBM’s Web site is currently [5/97] displaying a blurb about their research and intended development of teleportation technology.)

By the late 1970s at Montauk, furthermore, very advanced experimentation was undertaken in the controlled "warping" of space and time, utilizing some of Tesla's (long since dead), Von Neumann's and others' ideas and inventions. Tremendously powerful electrical currents flowing in specific configurations generated electromagnetic fields which created in effect a working "Tipler cylinder". To simplify once more, psychics were again utilized to visualize and stabilize a target "destination" in a different time/space dimension which the "vortex" would then be focused upon. The Tipler cylinder, a concept formulated by the aforementioned physicist Frank Tipler, is presently one of the most widely accepted theoretical models in quantum physics of how to create an artificial, controllable "black hole", thereby achieving time-space and dimensional shifting and even the ability to effect alterations and manipulations of our time-space continuum.

Some of this sounds quite exciting, amazing, even wonderful, and certainly in some ways it probably is. However, to a great extent such activities were and are done with absolutely no regard for the effects on the people experimented upon; furthermore, this work is done with the full intention of using the knowledge and capabilities gained to more thoroughly and completely subjugate humanity with ever-more-powerful and pervasive control of our consciousness: in fact, and literally if we remember Von Neumann's Proof, "reality engineering".

According to Preston Nichols, an unquestionably brilliant radio-electronics engineer who worked often in the Montauk Project in an altered state of mind while simultaneously employed by Brookhaven National Labs (such alternate awareness can be achieved with variations of psychotronic technologies) -- and also according to other first-hand participants in certain of these experiments -- some of the youngsters abducted and so viciously abused in these activities died as a result and were buried en masse on site! The human tragedy attested to here begins to rival such indelible atrocities as the Pol-Pot massacres or Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen in its horror and brutality. The fact that this was done to American children on American soil by agencies connected, however tenuously, to our government is virtually unimaginable; yet as we have discovered, many of the assertions made by Phoenix/Montauk investigators have been checked out and verified.

As mentioned, the Montauk Project crashed and burned in August 1983, sabotaged from within by certain key participants who could no longer tolerate what was going on. A time tunnel type linkup with the Philadelphia Experiment exactly forty years previously (August 12, 1943) was allegedly achieved then -- apparently an attempt by project operators to repair or undo damage they felt had been done to the time-space continuum during the 1943 experiment; thereafter, the project ended temporarily, as described, with the surface of the property being then donated to N.Y. State.


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PARADOXES ABOUND


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Even a brief inspection of this location will reveal massive inconsistencies and glaring anomalies in the current administration of the area by N.Y. State Parks: a series of investigations of the nearly 400 acre facility show that its designation and administration is very irregular and quite suspicious.

Although it's a supposedly hazardous, toxic, derelict installation, off-limits to the public until cleaned up, virtually no "clean-up" has been done after thirteen years. The vehicle entrance has a new high security gate and fencing with key and combination lock, and is heavily posted with restricted entry and no trespassing signs, yet the signs and fencing which identify and delineate the restricted area are spotty or nonexistent along thousands of feet of the boundary (ironically, especially in residential areas).

At the same time, numerous authorities patrol the base continuously, but in a peculiar "off duty" sort of mode. They usually wear no identifying badges or uniforms and are thus in an unofficial capacity -- not required to identify themselves or the source of their authority: warnings to keep out of the area and threats of arrest (and more) are delivered "unofficially" but very forcefully. New York State Police, State Park Police, and East Hampton Town Police also patrol the area and enforce the off-limits restriction as well. It seems obvious that the perimeter of this restricted area is so unevenly and irregularly identified and patrolled in order to avoid calling any undue attention to the location.

N.Y. State Parks officials, including Park Supervisor George Larsen, are extremely evasive and deceptive when questioned about these points and about the actual status of the area, as well as their administration of it. Certain backyards in the neighborhoods directly adjacent to Montauk AF Station, which in some cases definitely house base employees and security personnel, have paths that lead right into the supposedly restricted, or hazardous property, of which videotaped evidence exists.

Also, there is a major exception to the enforcement of the off-limits restriction, and considering the charges made concerning some of the activities here, it's a rather sinister exception. Children and teenagers have been spotted quite frequently inside the perimeter and are not thrown out or even approached when observed by security personnel. Videotaped evidence exists of this, and also of children riding bikes and climbing structures in this so-called hazardous, toxic, restricted area, which is apparently not off-limits to them.

National Guard and other military units do conduct what seem to be legitimate training exercises on the property. Are these service people being deliberately put in an unsafe, unhealthy and dangerous environment? It wouldn't seem likely, but if so, would be yet another bizarre, scandalous and distressing abuse to add to the long list of such reported to occur so regularly at this location. There is as well a substantial amount of testimony from nearby residents and others describing what appears to be ongoing, often nocturnal, non-legitimate activity involving unidentified government/ military personnel at the base.


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SUPPORTING INFORMATION


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Certain incidents have come to light over the past few years which lend further support to some of the allegations about Montauk Project activities. Branches of the CIA, NSA and other agencies have acknowledged conducting numerous and extensive mind control experiments at quite a few locations throughout the 1960s and into the 1970s and 1980s, including the infamous research done at Allen Memorial Institute and McGill University in Montreal, Canada. Dr. Ewen Cameron was head honcho and master of ceremonies there, in another scenario eerily reminiscent of Nazi Germany at its worst -- and not without reason, as we will discover.

For the unenlightened, there is a substantial amount of information and evidence on the literally countless projects and sub-projects conducted by federal intelligence agencies researching and experimenting with all conceivable forms of mind control – using everything from overt control of basic information available to society at large from fundamental sources such as books, magazines, TV, radio, newspapers, etc., to drugs and electromagnetics, and on to highly structured cult-like "belief system" control groups.. (The Jonestown, Guyana massacre [approximately 700 of the 900+ victims were homicides, not suicides] in 1979 was a prime example of a CIA drug/cult mind control project run amok -- [which perhaps was the idea!] -- a fact studiously avoided in most mainstream media coverage of the tragedy.)

Using EM/RF signals (and drugs), workable technologies have been developed which can: manipulate basic psychological states; interfere with coherent mental functioning and motor reflexes; control the autonomic nervous system; transmit "audible" words directly to the brain via pulsed microwaves; create (psychotronic) mind to computer links (utilized by the Air Force with fighter pilots and flight computers and demonstrated on TV); directly interface with both conscious and subconscious thought processes; plant subliminal messages -- especially while targets are in REM sleep ... all this in addition to other capabilities previously noted.

Of particular interest are the NSA’s massive and extremely advanced nanotech computer arrays which, using satellite links, can locate, catalog, track and scan literally anyone in the United States, by reading (and recording or correlating/matching) the unique bio-electromagnetic "signature" possessed by any and all living beings, and by monitoring mental, physical and emotional states through subtle "evoked" EEG readings picked up by extremely sensitive scanning.

Targeted individuals can then be "interfaced" with by means of the electromagnetic/radio frequency technologies noted. Although this particular technology is reportedly effective upon just about anyone, implantation of biologically-based transceiver chips into subjects make it much more reliable and powerful -- hence the reported plan to have the entire population so implanted at some time. The list just does not end, and as this report is not solely concerned with the mind control aspects of Montauk, we must move on. I refer the reader to the public libraries and especially the Internet and World Wide Web for some further information on government mind control projects.

Montauk Project researchers assert that the youngsters abducted for use in the experiments first had their spirits, psyches, personalities, sense of self and mental integrity completely demolished by severe, intensive carefully orchestrated psychosexual abuse until they were suitable to be "reassembled" and reprogrammed via supercomputers using psychotronic, EM/RF, virtual reality and "techno-psychic" technologies into the desired psychological profile, to perform as needed; for use in interdimensional experimentation, as guinea pigs in the unending mind control and psycho-tronics work, as sleeper agents who could be activated by a variety of means – including through use of implanted transceivers, and as a "secret army" which can be called upon by the secret government in times of unusual or severe crises; if they in fact survived the ordeal.

There is major confirmation that this is actually an established and often used method (in other documented mind control projects) of the intelligence services to create mind controlled, often totally unwitting agents to be used in espionage, assassinations and the like. Bogus child care facilities and phony, cult-like quasi-"religious" groups are some of the means used by intelligence agencies like the CIA to get access to suitable youngsters in situations with the required parameters of control.

In 1978 (and other years from the mid-70s to the early 80s), virtually the entire state of Oregon was subjected to very unusual electromagnetic transmissions which had unsettling and negative effects on the mood and state of mind of a large percentage of the population. These were monitored and duly reported by a number of groups such as police, fire and emergency services, radio and TV stations, et cetera. The situation received widespread coverage in the press at the time and there were indications of Soviet involvement; however at least some components of the signals were eventually traced to a U.S. Navy transmitter in California!

Regarding the use of "psychic" abilities by government agencies, The San Francisco Examiner on Sunday, December 24, 1995 ran a first section article on a CIA-run program at the Stanford Research Institute and other facilities which trained and developed the psychic abilities of persons in the program so that they could be used as psychic "spies". Called Stargate, the program was only one of many such projects; it flourished in the 1980s, and it was especially successful in such activities as remote viewing and other ESP-related phenomenon. Other experiments included psychokinesis, where random processes were influenced by the mind, and also mind control by psychic interference. Sensing where a target subject was and what they were doing were some more of the abilities researched in this program. A great amount of information on remote viewing and other controlled , directed psychic operations, often conducted by intelligence and military agencies, has been made public in the past year or so.

The August 1995 issue of Popular Science carried a piece which provided much information about a recent government project called HAARP (High-frequency Active Aural Research Program); information which again bolsters certain assertions made by Montauk/ Phoenix investigators. In addition to the esoteric but somewhat more mundane capabilities and functions made public regarding this technology, the entire ionosphere of Earth can be configured to perform as an incredibly powerful, global, ultra-wide-spectrum frequency transceiver by beaming high-frequency radio energy into it.

Project HAARP is being operated by the Navy and Air Force, along with Phillips Labs and additional parties. HAARP technology causes tremendous energy changes in specified ionospheric regions, allowing it to be configured as a virtual lens and virtual mirror (for the enhancement of or interference with certain RF transmissions), as a transmitter, as a method for wireless power transmission (exactly what Nikola Tesla had been working on for the government at the beginning of the 20th century) and numerous other ways. The innocuous-sounding publicized goals for HAARP activities are belied by evidence produced by authors of the recent book Angels Don’t Play This HAARP. According to documents uncovered by Dr. Nick Begich and Jeane Manning in the course of their research, some of the objectives of this project detailed in official (internal) Air Force documents include, among other horrors, utilizing various electromagnetic (RF) signals to cause deleterious, injurious, even lethal physical and mental effects upon targeted population groups, not excluding -- in blatant violation of the U.S. Constitution -- so-called domestic enemies (the latter defined plainly therein as "people who don't agree with us"). Also directly indicated in certain documents is the use of transmissions to interact with, interface and "interrogate" the MINDS of targeted groups. This means electromagnetic mind control. Such activities can be implemented anywhere on the face of the Earth. Other potential applications for HAARP technology include:

Enhancement of or interference with communications, as well as development of new types of radio transmissions

Manipulation of weather patterns

Weapons-related and mind control uses, as indicated above

Earth-penetrating tomography -- an X-ray like function which can reveal, for example, the existence of underground installations (like Montauk!), as well as oil or mineral deposits

Detection of electromagnetic seismic activity which may precede earthquakes -- and triggering of such activity

Generation of gravitic waves, interdimension/time "portals" and other highly esoteric, relativistic phenomena

Drawing energy from the ionosphere

"Pushing the envelope" in terms of pumping electromagnetic energy into the ionosphere, just to see what happens

According to the vast majority of scientists (independent of any governmental affiliation) interviewed by the authors, the potential for catastrophic, snowballing damage to our ionosphere and indeed the entire electromagnetically interrelated web of life on this planet as a result of this particular project is extreme. This is a horrifying activity which has unimaginable global environmental risks, as well as certain completely unconstitutional objectives. Read Angels Don’t Play This HAARP by Dr. Nicholas Begich and Jeane Manning to get the whole story.

HAARP technology could be capable of many or all of the effects and processes of the Phoenix/Montauk Projects and the other EM/RF mind control projects noted, as well as genetic modification, "brain police", and other similar frightening functions. Nick Begich and Jeane Manning have reported on 435 megahertz transmissions which have been monitored in association with HAARP activity; signals which Mr. Nichols has determined are directly in the mind-interface range and havebeen used extensively in the mind control and psychotronic experimentation I've reported herein. The implications of this are staggering and horrifying, as the potential now obviously exists to implement such functions on a worldwide basis.


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[jayreynolds]

Hey, SMT, 'lynn george'.
Go back and look at page 71 and you will see that I predicted heavy contrails for Saturday two days in advance. I also predicted the clearing today, Sunday.

HOW DID I DO THAT?

[liakopoulos]

THIS IS DEEP SHIT AND HEAVY DUTY STUFF JAY, WE'RE NOT JUST TALKIN' ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL CATASTROPHY, WE'R TALKIN' ABOUT THE DARK SIDE OF ZIONISM AND THE GLOBAL INDUSTRY OF MIND CONTROL. IS THIS REALLY HAPPENIN'? WE ALL HAVE TO KNOW, WE ALL HAVE TO GIVE TIT A TRY ,INSTEAD OF BULLSHITING AROUND THE WEB.

[jayreynolds]

This thread just topped 10,000 page views. Over 400 page views in the past 48 hours. There is a lot of interest in this thread, despite most references to it being recently deleted by mech at CTC.

Funny, that. :lol:

[jayreynolds]

"chemtrails" cult members doing a very poor showing:

http://www.online-sweepstakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120826&page=3&pp=15

[liakopoulos]

ARE YOU AWARE OF THE HALL (NOT HALVA) PHENOMENON JAY? ABOUT HALL IONISPHERIC CURRENTS? IONOSPHERE IS TO HIGH THOUGH.........WHAT IF SOMEBODY CREATED A CONDUCTIVE LAYER AT 30000 FEET. UAAAAAAUUU....LET'S SAY SOMETHING LIKE THE FLAT CLOUDS CREATED BY CHEMTRAILS. SHOULD I CONTONUE , OR YOU ARE GETTING THE PICTURE ALREADY?

[jayreynolds]

Ok, Liafraud, you tell SMT how I was able to predict both the onset and the end of persistent contrails(SMT called them chemtrails) in advance.
How did I do that?

[liakopoulos]

WHAT'S THE MATTER JAY? ARE ALL THESE TO SCIENTIFIC FOR YOU? TELL YOU WHAT DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST AND THEN WE'LL TALK, BECAUSE I AM SURE THAT YOU ARE REALLY VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN THE STUFF THAT I PRESENTED.............

[liakopoulos]

NOW LOOK JAY IF YOU WILL NOT TALK SERIOUSLY THIS TIME ,YOU WILL CONVINCE ME ABOUT EVERYTHINGTHAT I HAVE ALWAYS SUSPECTED. PLEASE DO YOUR HOMEWORK. STUDY THE EVIDENCE PLEASE...........

[liakopoulos]

THIS IS A SCIENTIFIC PRESENTATION. SHITHEAD9 STAY OUT. THIS IS IT JAY.... CHEMTRAILS CREATE FLAT CLOUDS AT 30000 FEET. THE PRESENSE OF METTALIC PARTICLES MAKES THEM CONDUCTIVE. ONCE THEY ARE CONDUCTIVE THE HALL PHENOMENON GIVES THE OPORTUNITY OF ELF WAVES REFLECTION. ELFs COME RIGHT ON YOUR HEAD JAY............SIMPLE PHYSICS...........YOU ARE BEING MIND CONTROLLED..........

[jayreynolds]

SMT, if you are in western MO, you'll have a 50% chance of spraying tomorrow, if east, one more day of sun. Tuesday all of MO wil be sprayed.
Enjoy the respite today, go out and get sunburned. 8)

[Bonehead9]

OK Gollum makes the following post:

HEY JAY, REMEMBER MY QUESTION? WHAT CAN SOMEONE DO IF HE HAS: 1)a flat cloud at 30000 feet containing metallic particles. 2) a 10 gigawatt ELF saurce .3) a perverted mind.

followed by a long cut and paste post:



ALRIGHT BOYS AND GIRLS LET'S PLAY BALL Simulations of ELF radiation generated by heating the high-latitude D- region
H.L. Rowland, Beam Physics Branch, Plasma Physics Division, Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, D.C.

By modulating the ambient current flowing in the ionosphere, e.g., the auroral electrojet, it is possible to generate extremely low frequency (ELF) and very low frequency (VLF) radiation. This ionospheric modification technique can provide such waves for probing both the Earth and the ionosphere- magnetosphere. The modification occurs in the lower D-region and can provide information about the ambient conditions in one of the least diagnosed regions of the ionosphere.

. . . (Edited – BH9)




So Gollum, are you implying that there is a connection between cirrus deck clouds at 30,000 feet and the D region of the ionosphere at 246,000 feet?

Feel free to expound on this connection.

[liakopoulos]

JAY, I'VE GIVEN YOU THE TRUTH, THAT EVERYBODY NEEDED TO HEAR. SIMPLE PHYSICS TELL YOU THAT MIND CONTROL CAN BE ACHIEVED IN THE WAY I DESCRIBED. INSTEAD OF PRESENTINNG YOUR OPPINION, YOU ARE TRYING TO BECOME A FORTUNE TELLER SAYING THAT SPRAYING MAY OR MAY NOT OCUR. CUT THE BO-BO AND THE DOO-DOO AND SPEAK YOUR PIECE. OR ARE YOU LEFT SPEACHLESS! .................

[Bonehead9]

SmT I still haven't got any information on the matter you were asking about.

Could you read my message on the other thread please?

Thanks,

WH

In otherwords, SMT, Wayne's profile on CTC was toasted also, (along with Gaiacomm and a host of other former members, now banned).

[liakopoulos]

STUPID SHITHEAD9 ,I SPECIFICALLY TOLD YOU NOT TO GET INVOLVED IN THIS. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT YOU DID NOT READ ,OR YOU CAN NOT READ, THAT AT 30000 FEET THEY ARE PRODUCING A CONDUCTIVE LAYER ,OR PERHAPS YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT CONDUCTIVE MEANS. SO STUPID JACK STAY AWAY WHEN GROWNUPS ARE TRYING TO TALK. TELL YOU WHAT ,TRY ONCE MORE THE IQ TEST FOR RETARDS THAT I GAVE YOU. MY BEST REGARDS TO YOUR MOTHER.

[liakopoulos]

JAY AND SHITHEAD9 CONDUCT THEIR SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH ABOUT CHEMTRAILS

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

Back to top

[liakopoulos]

HERE IS JAY COOKING HIS MUMBO JUMBO ABOUT PREDICTING CONTRAILS

[liakopoulos]

BE CAREFUL JAY, YOU MAY BE NEXT

[Bonehead9]

What's the matter Gollum? If you don't want to discuss science with me, then I can only surmise that you are afraid to.

Explain to me again how the water in jet exhaust freezes at 30,000 feet, then melts at 8,000 feet 30 seconds later.

Also, how is a Cirrus cloud deck at 30,000 feet related to the D layer of the ionosphere at 246,000 feet?

If you are to chicken to discus science with me then go ahead and insult me and post your spam. That way everyone reading this thread can see you for exactly what you are, a loser.

[gaiacomm]

Bonehead are you a scientist?

[Bonehead9]

Bonehead are you a scientist?

Yes.

[gaiacomm]

Bonehead are you a scientist?

Yes.

What is your speciality in science?....tell the truth so I can check!

[ICU812]

Is this statement factual?

The aviation science underlying claims is also problematic, according to marine turbine engineer Jay Reynolds, the most notable chemtrail debunker: "If you pass almost any chemical through a gas turbine engine, the combustion temperature is like 2000 degrees. Nothing survives: it's an incinerator."

[liakopoulos]

TO BONEHEAD9: IT IS OBVIOUS THAT YOU HAVE NOT COMPREHENDED MY SIMPLE AND PLAIN PRESENTATION. GAIACOMM WHO IS A PHYSICIST REALISED THAT AT ONCE . SO I AM ALSO ASKING :ARE YOU A SCIENTIST AND WHAT IS YOUR SPECIALTY? WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF WE START TALKIN' LIKE SCIENTISTS ,WHICH MEANS MATHEMATICS WILL REPLACE PLAIN ENGLISH?

[liakopoulos]

HEY BONEHEAD9, ARE YOU GETTING ENOUGH CHEMTRAILS IN CHICAGO?

[jayreynolds]

Is this statement factual?

The aviation science underlying claims is also problematic, according to marine turbine engineer Jay Reynolds, the most notable chemtrail debunker: "If you pass almost any chemical through a gas turbine engine, the combustion temperature is like 2000 degrees. Nothing survives: it's an incinerator."

That was written in 2000. At that time, the chemtrail cult was falsely saying that ethylene dibromide was an integral part of JP-8 jet fuel. In that context, my statement was accurate. They were incorect about ethylene dibromide, it was never part of JP-8, though it was a part of leaded gasoline.

[halva]

(N.B. This should have been posted at the other thread, but I won't move it now. W.H.)

This thread already has off-topic postings on it.

Other non-debunkers, even those who have 'wished me good luck' with the new thread, have contributed to moving it off-topic.

Debunkers want to talk about whether or not climate change is a reality, a subject I refuse to discuss as unequivocally as debunkers refuse to discuss the differences between the politics of OIKIA and the politics of 'chemmies', and the significance of these differences.

The differences in question constitute the subject of this thread as I, who originated it, see it.

When it became clear that this thread was going to fall victim to debunker disruption, I suggested converting it into a notice-board.

Other non-debunkers are not supporting me in this request.

I would like therefore to explain exactly why it is that, in the interests of democracy, and not only democracy, I would - and whenever possible will - ban every political expression of Reynolds and his followers, and if I ever get the power to, I will have him put in prison.

Freedom of speech for him and his supporters is the precise equivalent of freedom of speech for a gang in a burning building who tell inmates of the building that they shouldn't pay attention to the fire alarms, threatening them with all kinds of unpleasantness if they insist on trying to ring the fire brigade, or put out the fire themselves.

The crime for which Reynolds would be put in prison would be the deliberate propagation of dangerous falsehoods.

There is a method in Reynold's style of discourse, and it is not his own invention. It is the dominant discourse of US state power, of the United Nations, of the European Union, of all the powerful states of the world and of the corporate power they serve directly or indirectly.

The method is centred on the deliberate instigation of cognitive dissonance, i.e. of the emission of contradictory signals, or of signals contradicting the evidence of the senses.

The fire alarm scenario is a simple example of this.

Discourse of this kind induces division and fragmentation among those who allow it to affect them. They are forced to choose to align themselves with one or the other pole of the contradiction and thus start arguing and fighting with those who opt to go with the other pole.

Here are some more examples of this technique:

Reynolds adopts a pugnacious, warlike stance, hurling accusations, usually false, and in short behaving like a relentless enemy. At the same time he evokes the necessity for respect for the rules of democracy, rules which can only come into play where enmity is overcome, or at a minimum, a truce is respected.

This in itself is enough to induce cognitive dissonance in most unsuspecting Americans, who have learnt not to perceive the modalities of class war and also often cannot perceive the objective reality of national antagonisms, equating as they do the national interests of the United States with the interests of humanity as a whole.

Very many examples from recent history could easily be cited of the Reynolds technique in action. I have spent some time looking into the history of nuclear weapons, so the example I cite will be from there, but they could be found almost anywhere else.

Take the way that the Manhattan Project went ahead despite abundant off-the-record evidence that the Nazis neither prioritized nuclear weapons development nor were anywhere near being able to build a nuclear weapon. The United States got Central European Jews to build nuclear weapons for them utilizing this disinformation, which naturally induced cognitive dissonance in those who fell for it. Cognitive dissonance is often experienced as fear, which is easily transferable.

What could be easier than transforming the fear of Nazi Germany into fear of the Soviet Union?

Of course it becomes easier if you also get Communists to build your nuclear weapons. The US put the Communist Robert Oppenheimer in charge of developing the Manhattan Project. This made it very much easier to have the Project infested with Communist 'spies' from the beginning, thus assuring that the Soviet Union, despite Stalin's equal or greater lack of interest in nuclear weapons to Hitler's, would get the bomb much earlier than anyone 'officially' might expect, so that there would be a new, and dangerous, enemy, to replace Hitler, almost immediately.

The Soviets tried to get out of the corner they had been painted into by pursuing a 'peace diplomacy'. But this involved making demands on the U.S. that could only too easily be represented as lack of respect for American national sovereignty. Here was a new ready-made divide-and-rule tool. Set the champions of the Soviet Union's 'peace diplomacy' and the champions of American 'national sovereignty' at each other's throats.

Edward Teller came into prominence by helping to unload onto Oppenheimer's shoulders the responsibility for this mess. Enough fear and loathing was generated to justify the development of the hydrogen bomb.

Teller was a past master of the Reynolds cognitive dissonance trick. He resorted to it continually, all his professional life. He had the ingenious idea of getting Reagan to try to win Gorbachev over to the idea of universal nuclear disarmament if only he would give his consent to going ahead with the Star Wars anti-missile shield. In other words to accept that all nuclear missiles (nuclear weapons in general) could be abolished if the Soviet Union would help develop a system for shooting down nuclear missiles. What a brilliant idea for generating cognitive dissonance.

Teller's justification for his Sunshield was equally brilliant: a sunshield as a solution to the non-existent probem of global warming. Of course the idea wasn't popular. "It is not as fashionable," Teller said, "as all-out war on fossil fuels and the people who use them." Opponents of the sunshield thus become opponents of users of fossil fuels, i.e. everyone.

There is no easy way of getting Reynolds put in prison. It is not simply a matter of getting Congress to pass some laws. The political mechanism that reproduces and keeps reproducing the reflexes that allow him to continue playing his game has to come up against resistance, and it seems that such resistance is difficult to generate in the United States itself without help.

Look at the situation at CTC.

Even when Reynolds shows by his humour, i.e. here:

"If you are in western MO, you'll have a 50% chance of spraying tomorrow, if east, one more day of sun. Tuesday all of MO will be sprayed. Enjoy the respite today, go out and get sunburned"

that his lying is entirely premeditated and conscious, he is not held to account for it.

Freedom of speech includes the right to lie.

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers

[liakopoulos]

WHERE ARE YOU BOYS?

[liakopoulos]

TO GAIACOM: SINCE BONEHEAD9 FAILED TO PRESENT THE REQUIRED PROOFS OF HIS SCIENTIFIC LNOWLEDGE, WE MUST ASSUME THAT HE HAS LEFT DISCRACED. SINCE JAY IS OBVIOUSLY NOT COMING TO THE CONFERENCE IN GREECE, HE IS ALSO OFF LIMITS AS FAR AS THIS DEBATE IS CONCERNED. THEREFORE I DECLARE THE "HALVA" TEAM AS THE ABSOLUTE WINNERS. ..............ARE YOU COMING BACK JAY?

[Bonehead9]

A little impatient aren’t we, Gollum?

First of all, I do not recognize your (or for that matter, Smeagol’s) authority to “require proof” of anything from me. The proofs of my knowledge are in the posts that I make.

Secondly I haven’t seen anything from you or your fellow huckster in the way of credentials, either. When you post up your C.V. then I will post mine (maybe).

On the other hand, if you want proof of a scientific theory or a the explanation of a concept, then I will be happy to oblige (or maybe not – I am not going to be drawn into playing any silly games with you.) The proofs of your ignorance are in the posts that you make.

Since you and your spam-in-the-butt buddy, Smeagol have made a number of statements pertaining to physics that you have failed to back up with even the slightest bit of facts, evidence or even science, then it is clearly you that has failed.

People are reading this thread laughing at you.

So, let’s get back to your claim that jet exhaust products freeze at 30,000 feet, then thaw out 30 seconds later at 8,000 feet. Do you care to expound on this?

Or how about clarifying your comment that jet planes fly on the fuel they consume not on the exhaust that they produce. Please explain to me how a jet engine produces thrust without relying on combustion products.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[Bonehead9]

Halva.

The term “non-debunkers” is a double negative.

The double negatives cancel each other out leaving just ”bunkers,” which I take to mean ”the purveyors of bunk.”

Yep, that describes the “halva team.”

:lol:

[gaiacomm]

Hey...why not call Dr. Hur on the phone and see if he is a Physics person.

After all judging from the website and all the principals..I mean look at the advisors and homeland security and who knows what else.

Go to www.gaiacomminternational.com and find out for yourself!

[Bonehead9]

Hey...why not call Dr. Hur on the phone and see if he is a Physics person.

After all judging from the website and all the principals..I mean look at the advisors and homeland security and who knows what else.

Go to www.gaiacomminternational.com and find out for yourself!

Are you still trying to hack into the computers of people who visit your site?

[jayreynolds]

Hey...why not call Dr. Hur on the phone and see if he is a Physics person.

After all judging from the website and all the principals..I mean look at the advisors and homeland security and who knows what else.

Go to www.gaiacomminternational.com and find out for yourself!

Some people HAVE been looking into your website, gollum. Tore you a new one, eh?
Ha!
http://pub31.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails22884frm1.showMessageRange? topicID=2334.topic&start=21&stop=40

[jayreynolds]

Wayne wrote:

"I would like therefore to explain exactly why it is that, in the interests of democracy, and not only democracy, I would - and whenever possible will - ban every political expression of Reynolds and his followers, and if I ever get the power to, I will have him put in prison.

Freedom of speech for him and his supporters is the precise equivalent of freedom of speech for a gang in a burning building who tell inmates of the building that they shouldn't pay attention to the fire alarms, threatening them with all kinds of unpleasantness if they insist on trying to ring the fire brigade, or put out the fire themselves.

The crime for which Reynolds would be put in prison would be the deliberate propagation of dangerous falsehoods."

Sorry, Wayne, lying outside the courtroom isn't a crime, or else all chemtrail promoters would be imprisoned already. Making threats to shoot down airplanes like these made by chemmies is criminal see archived threats here:

http://pub31.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails22884frm3.showMessageRange? topicID=38.topic&start=1&stop=20

Isn't it true that you are an active member of the terrorist message posting board called ChemtrailtrackingUSA, Wayne Hall?



Wayne Hall continued:

"There is no easy way of getting Reynolds put in prison. It is not simply a matter of getting Congress to pass some laws. The political mechanism that reproduces and keeps reproducing the reflexes that allow him to continue playing his game has to come up against resistance, and it seems that such resistance is difficult to generate in the United States itself without help."

Oh, but wait here just a minute, Wayne. I have written to all the main chemtrail promoters, William Thomas, Clifford Carnicom, Mark Steadham, Lorie Kramer, Dona Terry, etal. I pledged to them that if any member of their cult EVER made good on their threats, that I would do my utmost to have their resective State's Attorney General convene a grand jury to prosecute them under a state law common to all of our states, called "Criminal Syndicalism". I personally feel that this law should easily apply. here, have a look at the one from Missisippi:
"MISSISSIPPI CODE OF 1972
As Amended

SEC. 97-7-21. Criminal syndicalism; definition.

Criminal syndicalism as used in sections 97-7-23 to 97-7-27 is hereby defined to be the doctrine or precept which advocates, teaches or aids and abets the commission of crime, sabotage (which word is hereby defined as meaning wilful and malicious physical damages or injury to physical property), unlawful acts of violence and force, arson or other unlawful acts or methods of terrorism as a means of accomplishing or effecting a change in agricultural or industrial ownership or control or in effecting any political or social change or for profit."
http://www.mscode.com/free/statutes/97/007/0021.htm

Now, perhaps you might say that you are beyond the reach of state law, think again.
The feds might also be interested and could even have an all-expenses paid Caribbean vacation for you, too, Wayne! evere hear about that fine resort called Guantanamo? I've been there, Wayne. Not pretty, buddy.

So, the next time you go talking laws, criminals, etc. just look in the mirror, fool, and point your finger straight ahead, that is who is dangerously close to breaking law.

Wayne also wrote:
"Even when Reynolds shows by his humour, i.e. here:
"If you are in western MO, you'll have a 50% chance of spraying tomorrow, if east, one more day of sun. Tuesday all of MO will be sprayed. Enjoy the respite today, go out and get sunburned"
that his lying is entirely premeditated and conscious, he is not held to account for it."

Wayne, I wasn't lying, or being funny. I was predicting contrail persistence
in an amateurish way, to be sure, but was doing it seriously and accurately. Today there were some persistent contrails in Missouri, but not as bad as last Saturday. Tomorrow there will be persistent contrails in abundance across Missouri. I basically use the same criterion that is outlined in this sixty-two-year-old document, as well as computer modeled cloudcast and water vapor products available online:

http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1942/naca-wr-l-474/

C-Y'A

[lynn george]

SMT, if you are in western MO, you'll have a 50% chance of spraying tomorrow, if east, one more day of sun. Tuesday all of MO wil be sprayed.
Enjoy the respite today, go out and get sunburned. 8)

Jay, I'm glad you're finally coming clean on these chemtrail spraying programs. :D

Actually I have ben predicting chemtrails days in advance without the aid of weather maps and front data. In fact as weather modification has become so prevalant , several times a week, one's odds are quite good really for predicting a "spray day". But rather than waiting for fronts to show on the map, I've found a real simple way of predicting chemtrailing is whenever here it starts to get "unseasonably hot" or the sky too blue, immediately the spray planes come and WHITE out the sky again in a SOLID mass. The key words are WHITE OUT!!! Sure you can "explain" and "predict" what various high pressure or low pressure systems or various fronts do, as well as humidity and temperature. And as I said before there is most SURELY a correlation between when chemtrailing is done and the preferred weather conditions. But Jay why weren't you able to predict the HUGE increase in traffic with DOZENS of trails being spread in several hours, planes circling back in 180's, criss-crossing, flying around and around with no obvious place to go with no major airport for 100 miles. It WASN't normal traffic not even close to a regular Saturday even. And all the while "regular traffic" traveling through, mainly the normal east-west leaving only short quickly disapating vapor trails no matter even oin the planes were so high they could barely be seen. Are you calling for perhaps a surge of dozens of planes again for a Tuesday all appearing with hours and again flying aimlessly in circles, off at sharp angles, and right at each other. And what will be the purpose?

SmT

[halva]

"Demon", in Greek "daimon", from the ancient Greek "daiomai", to separate or divide (Babiniotis dictionary p.456).

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers

[gaiacomm]

Hey...why not call Dr. Hur on the phone and see if he is a Physics person.

After all judging from the website and all the principals..I mean look at the advisors and homeland security and who knows what else.

Go to www.gaiacomminternational.com and find out for yourself!

Some people HAVE been looking into your website, gollum. Tore you a new one, eh?
Ha!
http://pub31.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails22884frm1.showMessageRange? topicID=2334.topic&start=21&stop=40



Its nice that people are finally taking notice! New technology is always met with fear and mistrust!

[liakopoulos]

TO BONEHEAD9: IT IS OBVIOUS THAT YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH PHYSICS. PLEASE DO NOT ATEND TO ME AGAIN.... BEST REGARDS TO YOUR MOTHER.

[jayreynolds]

SMT, if you are in western MO, you'll have a 50% chance of spraying tomorrow, if east, one more day of sun. Tuesday all of MO wil be sprayed.
Enjoy the respite today, go out and get sunburned. 8)

Jay, I'm glad you're finally coming clean on these chemtrail spraying programs. :D

Actually I have ben predicting chemtrails days in advance without the aid of weather maps and front data. In fact as weather modification has become so prevalant , several times a week, one's odds are quite good really for predicting a "spray day". But rather than waiting for fronts to show on the map, I've found a real simple way of predicting chemtrailing is whenever here it starts to get "unseasonably hot" or the sky too blue, immediately the spray planes come and WHITE out the sky again in a SOLID mass. The key words are WHITE OUT!!! Sure you can "explain" and "predict" what various high pressure or low pressure systems or various fronts do, as well as humidity and temperature. And as I said before there is most SURELY a correlation between when chemtrailing is done and the preferred weather conditions. But Jay why weren't you able to predict the HUGE increase in traffic with DOZENS of trails being spread in several hours, planes circling back in 180's, criss-crossing, flying around and around with no obvious place to go with no major airport for 100 miles. It WASN't normal traffic not even close to a regular Saturday even. And all the while "regular traffic" traveling through, mainly the normal east-west leaving only short quickly disapating vapor trails no matter even oin the planes were so high they could barely be seen. Are you calling for perhaps a surge of dozens of planes again for a Tuesday all appearing with hours and again flying aimlessly in circles, off at sharp angles, and right at each other. And what will be the purpose?

SmT

I did predict what you saw last Saturday. See page 71 of this thread.
This one is funny- "with no major airport for 100 miles."

Why do people in rural areas always expect there to be no air traffic overhead? What areas do you really expect planes to fly over while moving from one major airport to another?

The low that is moving across Texas has counterclockwise circulation which will be drawing moisture into Missouri today expect persistent contrails leding to a whiteout by this afternoon. If you have Flight Explorer
you would be able to identify the planes making the contrails.
the choice is yours. You can live in blind fear, or you can see the truth.

[liakopoulos]

RAYNOLDS WROTE

Isn't it true that you are an active member of the terrorist message posting board called ChemtrailtrackingUSA, Wayne Hall?


NOW LOOK PAL ,IF YOU THINK THAT YOU CAN DRIVE US TO BE FRIGHTENED TO DEATH YOU'R WRONG. THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DRIVE US AT IS LAUGH TO DEATH. COME ON JAY YOU'VE LOST......SLOW DOWN MAN AND ABOVE ALL KEEP AMUSING US

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers

[halva]

JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.


JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.

quote="liakopoulos"]JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.[/quote]


JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.

quote="liakopoulos"]JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.[/quote]


JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.

quote="liakopoulos"]JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.[/quote]


JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.


JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.


JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.

quote="liakopoulos"]JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.[/quote]


JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.

quote="liakopoulos"]JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.[/quote]


JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.

quote="liakopoulos"]JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.[/quote]


JAY IS LIKE A BAD HABBIT.

[Bonehead9]

Cute, Halva. How did you type that and hold your hands over your ears at the same time?

[gaiacomm]

Cute, Halva. How did you type that and hold your hands over your ears at the same time?


I know you do not wish the contents of your computer to be posted on the internet for all to see and I know you do not wish your private info like SS number, Drivers Lic, Bankcard info where you work, traffic tickets, school records and just about anything on you and etc posted for all to see!

Would you?

Come on a dare us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All we need is your public permission to post your private data.
This will not create lawsuits as long as you give us permission.

We are waiting to show you how powerful information is and how easy it is to get.

[liakopoulos]

GO AHEAD GAIA ,MAKE MY DAY

[liakopoulos]

IT'S ME ,IT'S ME GAIA, IT'S BONEHEAD9, PLEASE DO IT

[gaiacomm]

Cute, Halva. How did you type that and hold your hands over your ears at the same time?


I know you do not wish the contents of your computer to be posted on the internet for all to see and I know you do not wish your private info like SS number, Drivers Lic, Bankcard info where you work, traffic tickets, school records and just about anything on you and etc posted for all to see!

Would you?

Come on a dare us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All we need is your public permission to post your private data.
This will not create lawsuits as long as you give us permission.



Oh yes, jay that applies to you as well....so let us know, both of you so you both can see the power of the internet!


We are waiting!

We are waiting to show you how powerful information is and how easy it is to get.

[jayreynolds]

getting a little desperate, there, giacon, lance haubrick, whatever, eh?

http://www.ariannaonline.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8364&start=30

Sorta stings when your scam get's spoiled, eh?

Well, let's fan the flames a little.

Guess what old Giacon did when he graduated from college?

He installed sewer systems!

Don't believe me?
See it for yourselves:

"The field projects that I worked
on included surveying sites, collecting and analyzing soil samples to
determine the linear length of the septic drain field at each individual
site, preparing cut and fill stake markings for the contractors prior to
construction, construction inspection, etc."

http://engr.oregonstate.edu/mailman/archives/public/jobs/2003-December/000553.html

Now, don't get me wrong, Lance, this is good honest work, and somebody has to deal with shit. Better a low-brow like you to get out there and roll in the poop than me.

But pretending to be a physicist, and disrespecting me with page after page of toilet stuff, when all the while you ended up being a
"Septic System Engineer"?

Hilarious, I couldn't have set you up any better than you did it to yourself!

[gaiacomm]

quote="jayreynolds"]but, wait, did 'Judah Ben Hur' write this?:
http://theezine.net/articles/60/GAIACOMM-CORPORATION-4G-WIRELESS.html

or did Stephen Swanson write this?:
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2002/Jan02/water.htm

Looks like Dr. Ben Hur has some 'splainin' to do.

Wonder what's going to happen?[/quote]


Well one thing for sure we know that Dr. Ben-Hur is real and must be well connected somewhere to write essays that insight and have such far reaching technology that you cannot find anywhere on the internet....connected with homeland security, has a residence address...but yet connected to the governer of florida and some arcane dod projects. What a cover...and Lance well here is a respected environment engineer that 2works with gaiacomm?

Ben-Hur writes such insightful letters and has a technology that is so exact and so arcane. Maybe he is a person who is tryying to tell us something....maybe he escaped from the KEEP!

And the FBI, CIA and NSA all leave him alone...I wonder why?

[gaiacomm]

Cute, Halva. How did you type that and hold your hands over your ears at the same time?


I know you do not wish the contents of your computer to be posted on the internet for all to see and I know you do not wish your private info like SS number, Drivers Lic, Bankcard info where you work, traffic tickets, school records and just about anything on you and etc posted for all to see!

Would you?

Come on a dare us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All we need is your public permission to post your private data.
This will not create lawsuits as long as you give us permission.



Oh yes, jay that applies to you as well....so let us know, both of you so you both can see the power of the internet!


We are waiting!

We are waiting to show you how powerful information is and how easy it is to get.

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

Back to top

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

I think you might want to read this again! You may want to leave Dr. Hur alone!


Dr. Judah Ben-Hur ( no email / no homepage) wrote:

The case for regime change in the USA

A president and respected physicist of a Californian technologies company
dips into journalism to make his case for a more transparent United States
of America.

"Strange times are those in which we live when old and young are taught in
falsehoods school. And the one man that dares to tell the truth is called
at once a lunatic and a fool" - Plato

"And those who perform jihad for us, we shall certainly guide them in our
ways, and God is surely with the doers of good." (Quran XXXIX; 69)

"You have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad." (Hadith)

To all who read and understand: it is time to take the next step in
understanding. After careful and meticulous research, including access to
files and data guarded by the United States Government, I have uncovered
information that has been written about, talked about, read about, and in
many cases silenced to protect and to confuse those who wish to uncover its
not so guarded secrets.

Careful and planned exposure of this information seems to be the only way to
begin the process of enlightenment of not just the American people but all
peoples of this planet who are considered common men and women.

We cannot blame the "United States Government" for our woes, but ourselves
for allowing our own Constitution to manipulate and control not just us but
others in its path towards imperial rule, which by the way was why some
people left England to come to the Americas to rid themselves of that
tyranny.
True democracy does not impede growth or dominate others. It was established
to be a beacon for those who wish to call on its existence and only that. We
do not have the right to impose democracy on nations or peoples who do not
truly ask for it.

The United States in its own right is a terrorist country imposing
pseudo-democratic policies through crafty methods - controlling without
regard to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! Regime change within
the United States should be seriously considered.

Fact: the United States has in its possession weapons of mass destruction,
so why does not the United Nations impose restrictions against the United
States?

Fear is the reason why no nation or individual will want to go up against
this Goliath! Well I have a small stone, I know where to throw it, and if I
have to by myself so be it.

The fact that Thomas Jefferson who co-authored the now infamous doctrine of
democracy himself was an advocate of slaves.

Hypocrisy runs through the veins of the elite American people who control
the destinies and lives of so many people.

What we all must learn is that the power in change is in the people that
make up the majority of the civilized and so-called uncivilized world.


What gives this small group of people their control over us is the fact that
they know we all will not collectively give up our lives to get back control
of the government and rid ourselves of the self-serving politicians and
business executives that control what we eat, where we sleep, who to like
and not like, what to read, what to write, how to dress, how and who to
love, who to hate, what race is superior, who gets education, who not, where
to travel, who lives, who dies, who eats, who does not eat, who gets elected
in office, who does not get elected, who is popular and who is not, who is
"in" who is not, what clothes to wear, what not, what movie or music star is
in, which one is not, who to disrespect who to not, who to be prejudice to
and who to not, what freedoms we have and have not, who gets destroyed, who
not, who must accept the "way" and who not, who goes to prison, and who not,
and the list goes on into infinity.

Remember that in the Constitution it does allow for bloodless regime change
within the government as long as we stand together and collectively vote for
our freedoms back.
Rid ourselves of the electoral college and other manipulative organizations
that are self-serving their own agendas at the expense, hard work and lives
of so many innocent and misguided people that are here within the borders of
despair.

The French Government should formally request that the Statue of Liberty be
returned to France. We all know what it was for.

The United States has over many years systematically infiltrated other
nations to "weed" out the non-conformers to the so-called Democratic process
and replace those with the showroom dummies of democracy.
Granted, the United States has some freedom of movement for its people but
not the way it was originally intended. Look at Africa, South America, and
parts of Europe, Asia and other nations that are sucking the teat of the cow
and its sour milk.

Collectively, we the people of the world should stand up and be counted on
to rid ourselves of individuals who are ignorant of their own ignorance and
replace this Constitution with one that includes all religions, all peoples,
all races, all nations and all who feel left out and want to be what they
want to be without the constraints of prejudice and restrictive law. Not to
run lawless but have the right to be an individual and collectively correct
this turmoil we are in.

The Earth is trying to warn us that we are spinning out of control and that
we need to correct ourselves soon or the earth will rid itself of this
infection and parasite called mankind that is slowly destroying its primary
intent to allow its inhabitants the freedom to live be fruitful and multiply
to the extent of finding a way to leave this planet and journey to others
and spread some sort of reason rather than an infectious spore.

I am a physicist and a patriot who, through years of being silent, had
almost forgotten my obligations. It is high time I and others like me use
our intellect and technology to stand up against an oppressor and rid
ourselves of this infection. We are a legion that wants to live a life of
peace and respect for all living things and have considerations for those
who are different and look for ways to truly accommodate those who are slow
in understanding.

We do not need your help just your patience and understanding of what we are
about.

We are America's best-kept secret that just got out of the "keep".

Judah Ben-Hur
Physicist

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

I noticed this last passage!


I am a physicist and a patriot who, through years of being silent, had
almost forgotten my obligations. It is high time I and others like me use
our intellect and technology to stand up against an oppressor and rid
ourselves of this infection. We are a legion that wants to live a life of
peace and respect for all living things and have considerations for those
who are different and look for ways to truly accommodate those who are slow
in understanding.

We do not need your help just your patience and understanding of what we are
about.

We are America's best-kept secret that just got out of the "keep".

Judah Ben-Hur
Physicist

[lynn george]

Hi J,

J said-"I did predict what you saw last Saturday. See page 71 of this thread."

SmT- I believe you. Congratulations.


J said"This one is funny- "with no major airport for 100 miles." "

SmT- Why funny, it's true?

J said"Why do people in rural areas always expect there to be no air traffic overhead?

SmT- That's kind of a straw man J. People in rural areas don't always expect there to be no air traffic overhead. In fact I have mentioned many times fairly frequent east/ west traffic as well as sporadic other traffic here acrosss Mid Missouri.

J -" What areas do you really expect planes to fly over while moving from one major airport to another?"

SmT- Is this a real question?


J-"The low that is moving across Texas has counterclockwise circulation which will be drawing moisture into Missouri today expect persistent contrails leding to a whiteout by this afternoon. If you have Flight Explorer
you would be able to identify the planes making the contrails.
the choice is yours. You can live in blind fear, or you can see the truth."

SmT- Indeed. And one can wake up to the fact of geoengineering/"chemtrail" research and applications being common place now. I'm pretty sure the Gov. knows they can't keep a lid on this forever. I bet there are HUNDREDS of thousands of people aware now, Jay, and as I said they are even teaching geoengineering in the 7th grade as I mentioned the text book that has a picture of an airplane with the words "Particle Air" emblazened across the side. And it is putting out a smokey trail in what is described as a sort of "solution" to global warming. It's time were gonna have to face up, and I have a feeling as I have heard it said the the "official" acknowledgement of "tests beginning" is simply trying to be pushed back until after the election. With papers like The Observer printing stories about the Earths scientists considering a "Giant Space Shield for Planet Earth" and companies like ExxonMobil spending a hundred million dollars on geoengineering type research among many other businesses, eventually all of this testing is going to have to come out in the open. Again I think they are simply stalling for as much time as possible. Yesterday a bunch of folks were standing outside work when a big jet came by flying in a sort of an S pattern and then proceded to turn around right above where I work and fly back the other direction leaving this huge smokey spreading trail. It was so obvious and funny it had many of us laughing about the attempts to conceal these atmospheric experiments/modifications. But whatever you want to think Jay. You know what I think. If tommorrow starts to look like it's going to get too hot or if the sky get's too blue were going to get chemtrailed. Where have all the REAL clouds gone? Have you noticed? All we now have are mainly "Jet Pollution Clouds". Or no clouds at all. Or the ChemHaze. Is this really what you want?

SmT

[halva]

You keep feeding him.

Gaiacomm we are all looking forward to seeing you sock it to them at Kos.

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

Seems like Dr. Hur is popular with all knds of people!

http://www.globalblacknews.com/BenHur.html

[gaiacomm]

You keep feeding him.

Gaiacomm we are all looking forward to seeing you sock it to them at Kos.


I will not be able to speak because I did not submit a paper on time. But I can network and bring about interest and concern. I can pull a few chains and favors to at least get a disccussion on chemtrails...hopefully. This will force a press release to go public...if all goes well.

Jay will not accept the invite...he only plays and pokes. He is harmless!

[halva]

You don't have to curry favour with Jay.

We are ready to support you in the real world, if you can act there.

It is also freer from his intrusions.

Jay is going to be sidelined soon anyway. The Europeans and the American Democrats want to have a controlled hangout on chemtrails so that they can move towards legalizing what they are doing. Jay and his debunkers are an obstacle to this.

[jayreynolds]

Wayne, your going back into denial.
giacon is outed.
He is the guy in the picture, lance haubrick, the septic field engineer working on a lonely indian reservation who invented 'ben-hur' as an alternate personality to fill some need in his pitiful life.
You'll never see him, he won't be going anywhere.

He is a figment of Lance's imagination, and so is gaiacomm corp.

It's all over but the laughing now.
http://com1.runboard.com/b13thcentury.fthenewdebunkatorium.t62

Wayne, if you dare go to Kos, and I think you just might, be sure to look over the railing of the ferryboat as you enter the harbor. 'Dr. Judah Ben Hur will be the 'brown-eyed clacker mullet' you see in the water!

What will Bruce Chandler have to say about the way Lance budgets his time as a public servant?

giacon better stop now, I am onto you and will inform IHS about your waste of my taxpayer dollars spamming message boards while you are being paid to work. Leave the scene, now.

[halva]

Reynolds I have never said that I would go to Kos, and I have never intended to. It is a gathering of scientists, and as I have always told you, I am a citizen, not a scientist. What would I do there?

In any case it is quite unnecessary.

I have an open mind about Gaiacomm and how he deals with the input you are now introducing.

Who he is and what he does professionally are not the most important considerations from my viewpoint.

Are they from his own viewpoint? He is the one to answer that question.

[gaiacomm]

Wayne, your going back into denial.
giacon is outed.
He is the guy in the picture, lance haubrick, the septic field engineer working on a lonely indian reservation who invented 'ben-hur' as an alternate personality to fill some need in his pitiful life.
You'll never see him, he won't be going anywhere.

He is a figment of Lance's imagination, and so is gaiacomm corp.

It's all over but the laughing now.
http://com1.runboard.com/b13thcentury.fthenewdebunkatorium.t62

Wayne, if you dare go to Kos, and I think you just might, be sure to look over the railing of the ferryboat as you enter the harbor. 'Dr. Judah Ben Hur will be the 'brown-eyed clacker mullet' you see in the water!

What will Bruce Chandler have to say about the way Lance budgets his time as a public servant?

giacon better stop now, I am onto you and will inform IHS about your waste of my taxpayer dollars spamming message boards while you are being paid to work. Leave the scene, now.




Jay:

I suugest you contact Dr. Ben-Hur and make sure that Lance and he are not the same or are two different people. And when you find out that they are two different people then your creditabilty on all of the website forums you post will be finished.

I know that they are two different people. Why not contact Gaiacomm International? Call Dr. Judah Ben-Hur! Email him! You are afraid!

By the way I still need your permission to post your SS#, Drivers Lic and Bank account info!

Come on Jay give me the word ,,,,I dare you!

Truth or dare?

[gaiacomm]

Jay:

Lets see...David Horne is the address for Gaiacomm International and is the president of Gaiacomm.....who is the brother of Senator Jim Horne who is on the board of advisors of Gaiacomm who is on Jeb Bush's cabinet who is the brother of the G. Bush the President of the USA.

And Dr Ben-Hur must be protected by the CIA, FBI and NSA because of this new technology and gee he writes some pretty insightfull stuff but he is not censored...or maybe this is something you should leave alone!

I just find it funny that looking at the contacts on Gaiacomm and contacting each individual it all checks out. I think it is a front!

But reading Ben-Hurs essay's would seem to me that he is real and is not Lance and works with some arcane government project.

I don't think that the individuals listed on the website would be duped into a con job. I think this is a big story that is unfolding and you are just part of it!

Better understand that the CIA can can not only make a person in a room disapear but the whole room!

[gaiacomm]

Gaiacomm: To Boldly Go Where No Telecommunications Company Has Gone Before!

Date announced: 7 Dec 2002

Gaiacomm: To Boldly Go Where No Telecommunications Company Has Gone Before!
December 7, 2002

There has been much speculation as to the validity of Gaiacomm's claim of having developed a 4G global wireless communications technology. If one does a complete due-deligence into the claim one will find a technology that has verified the science of Quantum Physics and has discovered uses for the Terahertz band in the artful form of wireless communications.
Scientists around the world have been actively researching and developing small pockets of data around terahertz waves, infrasound, and the interfacing of low frequency waves with other higher bands. If one just listens and records the sounds of Nature one will discover the answers to these questions and soon discover the governing dynamics of wireless communications by understanding the coupling of specific frequencies to each other thus propagating them in a way that yields creditable results. A form of signal transduction except not at the cellular level.

We have discovered a way to use the dynamics of the earth's magnetic field and the surface area of the planet to rebroadcast a signal globally and with little or no loss.

We have discovered a way to use Sonar to detect and identify other objects in the oceans without impeding on the communications channels of whales and other mammals that inhabit the deep oceans.

We have discovered a method to communicate to submarines at any depth or location.

We have discovered a method to use the dormant fiber optic rings that exist worldwide to utilize our wireless broadcast system.

We have discovered a method to isolate and manipulate the ionosphere in such a way as to control the dynamics of the electrons that exist and cause isolated fusion reactions within selected regions of the earth's atmosphere, (Compton Effect).

We have discovered a method to eliminate the dependency on satellites that are too costly to maintain and "clutter" the skies with space junk.

We have discovered a method to effectively broadcast a signal to any location on planet earth to digital devices (cell phones, handheld PDA's), computers, and other frequency specific devices.

We have discovered a method to construct an isotropic type antenna array thus allowing for a 360-degree footprint. The projected radiated signal footprint is 5 million sq. surface miles per antenna.

We have discovered a method to use the earth as a "transponder" and take advantage of the spherical wave-guide that exists globally.
We have discovered a method to keep control of the cost of operation down thus passing a significant savings to the ratepayer far cheaper than any telecommunications provider can offer worldwide. In addition, we have designed a pricing structure that will allow global customers to participate with our service and have money to spare.

We ask that all of you follow Gaiacomm's struggle to present its technology to the scientific academia and "push" its way to the front of the telecommunications industry by offering a wireless communications technology that functions and functions well by taking into account the needs of others on this tiny planet and offering reliable quality service, creating global employment, and assisting in developing revenue streams for industry and countries, in short "jump starting" various economies worldwide thus reducing the depend ices on "Super Power" control and manipulation.

Please view our website at www.gaiacomm.org and see the progress we are making with our affiliations with other organizations on our quest to become the leader in wireless communications and Homeland Security.

Contact
Judah Ben-Hur
Gaiacomm Corporation

[gaiacomm]

Gaiacomm International Corporation Chooses Jacksonville

October 27, 2003. Jacksonville, Florida. GAIACOMM INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION, formed to develop superior wireless communications utilizing terahertz technology developed by Founder and Physicist Dr. Judah Ben-Hur, has chosen Jacksonville for its new production facility and headquarters. The company is currently seeking funding for its startup and proof-of-concept development initiatives. Several sources have indicated a strong interest in funding this visionary technological breakthrough with the Gaiacomm technology.

The Board of Directors consists of Dr. Judah Ben-Hur, Chairman, Mr. David H. Horne, Jr., President and CEO, Mr. Dan J. Thomas, Jr., Executive Vice-President and COO, and Mr. Rob S. Cotton, Director of Human Resources. Ms. Brandie M. Halterman is Webmaster / Administrator.

The company's Board of Advisors includes several notables: Florida Commissioner of Education Jim Horne, former Florida DOE Chief Technology Officer Ruben P. Lopez, attorney-at-law, J. Allison DeFoor II, the 1990 Lt. Governor running mate of former Florida Governor Bob Martinez, and William E. ("Bill") Horne, President-CEO, Outback Sports, Inc.

Plans for Gaiacomm International Corporation include full development and commercialization of a global wireless communications protocol that is expected to revitalize a volatile telecommunications industry. The development of this proprietary - and closely safeguarded - technology will have a significant impact on the Jacksonville labor force, creating local employment opportunities for engineers of many disciplines, as well as abundant job opportunities for other non-engineering support positions, including many in high-tech, management and administrative fields.

"The next great business frontier will be found in the wireless communications industry, and innovative product developments for this field are central to the survival of every enterprise, regardless of company size or product volume. Every business is affected by the timeliness of communications, whether it involves its customers, its suppliers, or just its employees. Innovation is key to American companies keeping pace with the European and Asian markets in this decade, and critical in providing continuing careers in engineering and related scientific disciplines for students in our country's colleges and universities. We need to embrace new technologies that promise new business opportunities that will, in turn, strengthen the U.S. economy first and foremost, then the economies of the world." according to Gaiacomm EVP Dan Thomas. "In the wake of the ghastly events of 9-11, the U.S. economy and its employment numbers reeled, staggered, and dropped as an unanticipated result. Employment within the telecommunications industry was particularly hard hit, and is slow to recover. It is paramount that we seek a bold, new technology to help us compete on the world stage again, resurrect our economy, and create jobs for our university graduates and those persons displaced in the aftermath of 9-11".
Bringing you the latest news from JBE Community Members "… and I believe we have that very technology at Gaiacomm." adds CEO David Horne. "Dr. Ben-Hur has given us a leg up on the competition with this new terahertz-based wireless creation of his. It has so many practical business applications beyond that of simple cell phone usage and computer connectivity that the greatest dilemma I face as President is resisting the temptation to open up too many lines of business at once. Apart from providing wireless telecommunications service, I could launch 9 distinctively separate applications tomorrow if I had the resources and the manpower to fund and staff them.

"I can think of three examples in the field of imaging alone, just off the top of my head. I would say that we could provide consulting services for subsurface exploration of oil, precious metals and minerals, both on land and at sea, using the unparalleled imaging capabilities that our new technology gives us. Why use calculated risk scenarios to determine where you drill? Scientific? Yes. Infallible? No. Costly? You betcha! We'll tell you exactly where it is, how far down it is and what you'll likely encounter on the way down. Sunken ships, same thing. You want to dive on old shipwrecks looking for treasure; determine if your cargo vessel went down where you suspect and whether the cargo is salvageable? We'll tell you where to find the ship and what's on board without even getting our feet wet. All you would have to provide is the general location you wanted searched … and a modest fee for our services, of course.

"And speaking of cargo, security checks have become the major concern for airports and seaports today. The extraordinary problem they face is how to validate the contents of a shipment that passes through their authority without opening each package or container; and doing it expeditiously when there are thousands of parcels to inspect and certify for the public's safety. We could install our imaging technology at any port where cargo shipments from terrorists could be a problem, combine it with fail-safe detection software and within 90 seconds, scan over ten thousand parcels in an area the size of a football field and identify every weapon of mass destruction, terrorist device and pathogen known to the software.

"Our company's arrival on the business scene seems to me to be one born of kismet because there are suddenly a lot more of these "extraordinary" problems facing the world today that didn't exist a decade ago; and not to put too fine a point on it, we have a technological answer for the majority of them. This is an exciting time for all of us, and a bit scary, and I consider myself privileged to be helping Dr. Ben-Hur introduce this emergent technology with all of its marvelous benefits.

"Before this decade comes to a close, I envision a Gaiacomm workforce nearing 7000", Horne asserts. "That requires a lot of work for those of us who will be implementing the plans for an infrastructure that can accommodate that many employees and the applications they will need to develop and support in order to enter those markets competitively. Jacksonville will play a major role in it all because we plan to hire as many locals for the positions needed as is feasible".

Contact:
David H. Horne, Jr., President
Gaiacomm International Corporation

[halva]

Gaiacomm (the person [??])

Will you use your trip to Greece to promote Gaiacomm (the company)?

[gaiacomm]

Jay and debunkers:

I think you get my point...go back to your debunker websites and play there....you have lost this game!

By the way the hackers do not need public permission to post your personal data on the internet for all to see!

I just cannot control them...I am sorry!

[gaiacomm]

Gaiacomm (the person [??])

Will you use your trip to Greece to promote Gaiacomm (the company)?


No! There is no need to. Governments are very aware of Gaiacomm!

Some are nervous some are not! You can imagine why!

[letxa2000]

The spamming here is getting rediculous and is completely off-topic.

I didn't pay very close attention to this thread while I was on vacation. Did anything at all get resolved regarding contrails/chemtrails in the 30-some pages between 50 and 81? Or, by reading those 30 pages, would I only be rewarded with constant gaiacomm spam?

[gaiacomm]

The spamming here is getting rediculous and is completely off-topic.

I didn't pay very close attention to this thread while I was on vacation. Did anything at all get resolved regarding contrails/chemtrails in the 30-some pages between 50 and 81? Or, by reading those 30 pages, would I only be rewarded with constant gaiacomm spam?



Yes you are correct!

[liakopoulos]

TO lextra 2000: HOW ABOUT RAYNOLD'S TOILETS, DID YOU LIKE THEM?

[halva]

It seems you have a short concentration span.

[gaiacomm]

Halva check your email account. I am making contact with Rosin!

[halva]

So I notice.

[gaiacomm]

I think now the debunkers will stay away because of the hacker patrol that will most likely post their respective personal data somewhere on the internet for others to see and to do whatever. They were warned!

They watch also and when called upon to do what they do best they are quite good and quick. All they need is to watch when Jay and others post to snatch their tails!

Anyway, I will pursue many avenues to help the cause!

[letxa2000]

liakopoulos: HOW ABOUT RAYNOLD'S TOILETS, DID YOU LIKE THEM?

I'm skipping most everything not related to contrails and/or chemtrails. Unfortunately, that's most of the thread at this point.


halva: It seems you have a short concentration span.

It'd be much longer if we could talk about chemtrails and contails instead of gaiacomm posting the same silly message over and over asking rhetorical (and offensive) questions about Reynolds like some gradeschool child and other such nonsense.

Why don't we try again to stay on-topic:

1. What is a chemtrail?

2. How does it differ from a contrail?

3. How can one differentiate between the two?

4. What is the purpose of chemtrails?

I'd prefer to see Reynold's original 10 or so questions answered but it seems that maybe 10 questions at once was too much to deal with. So let's start with just the 4 questions above.

[gaiacomm]

liakopoulos: HOW ABOUT RAYNOLD'S TOILETS, DID YOU LIKE THEM?

I'm skipping most everything not related to contrails and/or chemtrails. Unfortunately, that's most of the thread at this point.


halva: It seems you have a short concentration span.

It'd be much longer if we could talk about chemtrails and contails instead of gaiacomm posting the same silly message over and over asking rhetorical (and offensive) questions about Reynolds like some gradeschool child and other such nonsense.

Why don't we try again to stay on-topic:

1. What is a chemtrail?

2. How does it differ from a contrail?

3. How can one differentiate between the two?

4. What is the purpose of chemtrails?

I'd prefer to see Reynold's original 10 or so questions answered but it seems that maybe 10 questions at once was too much to deal with. So let's start with just the 4 questions above.



Whatever answer is given to your questions will always be met with dissagreement by some debunker of truth. To waste more time on that issue is futile. If you wish to get answers then I suggest you search the internet. Its obvious that by your questions asked that you are just trying to play in the game.

As for gaiacomm well you know the story and there is nothing you can do to stop it. So go to another place and leave us alone. You are not welcomed here!

You know what will happen to debunkers if they post here...the hackers will snatch your tail and then post it on the internet for others to see and use!

[gaiacomm]

I think now the debunkers will stay away because of the hacker patrol that will most likely post their respective personal data somewhere on the internet for others to see and to do whatever. They were warned!

They watch also and when called upon to do what they do best they are quite good and quick. All they need is to watch when Jay and others post to snatch their tails!

Anyway, I will pursue many avenues to help the cause!


lextra2000 and others beware!

[letxa2000]

Whatever answer is given to your questions will always be met with dissagreement by some debunker of truth. To waste more time on that issue is futile. If you wish to get answers then I suggest you search the internet.

That's what all chemtrail believers seem to say. There is a noteable lack of interest in "educating" the skeptics and the public at large. Believers just seem to want to say "There are chemtrails! Don't believe us? Prove it yourself! Oh, already looked around and still don't believe? Sorry, you are just a debunker." How silly. A real special interest group with a real concern about their issue would be more than happy to educate those that ask questions rather than shun, ridicule, and threaten them.

There is some comfort in that, though. As long as chemtrail believers follow this protocol the chemtrail belief will never come close to making it to the mainstream where it could have an impact on policy in any significant way.

[gaiacomm]

Your opinion will be noted!

Thank you!

[lynn george]

SmT, one thing that I have asked is that the Chemtrails 911 group in Santa Cruz California
http://www.skyhighway.com/%7Echemtrails/index.html

respond to the document by Mitralias of the OIKIA group

http://www.ariannaonline.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

It would be good for these two grassroots action groups to understand each other better, indeed to know of each other's existence.

Another good person for co-ordinating with is Brian Holmes in Canada:
http://www.holmestead.ca

I have the impression that something has gone wrong at CTC and that someone's intellectual faculties are not up to dealing with the input they are receiving.


Nice sites Halva,

Yes it would be good if some representatives from each of the many, many chemtrail research groups, individuals, and websites could stay better linked perhaps in a forum like MegaSprayer or such. Or, perhaps an E-mail service could be started and advertised around on all the different sites that would help to keep everybody up to speed on current chemtrail and related happenings. Just a thought. Anyway as regards the researchers in the Santa Cruz area, it would be nice to invite them here also. I noticed they still have my post on their website. I imagine they might have input worth sharing.


SmT

[lynn george]

For those that missed it, ignored it, or spammed it: 8)




So is it your purpose to bury all of my and others posts that deal with chemtrails and geoengineering ,with constant spamming about onions and toilets. Perhaps you could start another thread or two, maybe dealing with toilets on one, and perhaps onions on one, and perhaps a third on non-obvious de-bunker techniques.


But for anyone else concerned about the topics here, as I described before today was a MASSIVE spray day one of the most blatant I have seen in the last several months. Two days ago we had intermittant clouds and NO chemtrails NOT ONE, with jets flying what we have come to observe as normal patterns, mostly east/west, fairly sporadic, and leaving only the seconds long quickly disapating contrails. Yesterday the sky was magnificant blue with jet traffic again fairly sporadic, "normal" for this area flight paths being flown and again jets leaving only quickly disapatting contrails. Today however upon arising I noticed numerous persistant trails had been left out in the west apparently overnight in a mostly unusual north/south direction. Then several planes came and put down persistant trails in the north. Then some out to the east. Then planes started coming so fast, spreading huge bilowing smokey like white trails, and they started flying directly at each other making huge white fluffy X's and they started turning semicircle's and flying straight and then veering of at right angles. What an amazing show! Though the sky had been originally a pretty blue this huge programs looked like a nest of hornets out, it was really quite amazing. And luckily we got it on VIDEO. And we captured scattered regular traffic flying through the same area leaving only seconds long contrails and in one case I actually filmed this 'commercial' looking plane flying the usual east west route leaving absolutely NO trail all the while these 'hornets' were OBLITERATING the blue in the sky and turning it to a WHITE HAZE. Teller said the whiteness of the sky would be easily observable to the public during aplications of his "sky shield' and it seemed to be a concern people would notice. And some definately are. I will try and get some pics of today on here, it was really really quite amazing. Blatant, in your face, CHEMTRAILING!

SmT

[halva]

[quote=halva]As regards the researchers in the Santa Cruz area, it would be nice to invite them here also. I noticed they still have my post on their website. I imagine they might have input worth sharing.
SmT

The convenor of the Santa Cruz group is very wary about getting into time-wasting interactions with debunkers.

By the way, what happened at CTC may really have been accidental. I have no evidence to prove otherwise.

[lynn george]

[quote=halva]As regards the researchers in the Santa Cruz area, it would be nice to invite them here also. I noticed they still have my post on their website. I imagine they might have input worth sharing.
SmT

The convenor of the Santa Cruz group is very wary about getting into time-wasting interactions with debunkers.

By the way, what happened at CTC may really have been accidental. I have no evidence to prove otherwise.

Hey Halva,

Yes I haven't really taken the time to try and repost at CTC again or go through my cookies to see if I may have recieved a damaged one somehow. Perhaps I simply need to log in again and may at some point.

Is anything being planned in Greece regarding Chemtrails/Geoengineering for this Earth Day? I got to thinking about it the other day, just how much more relative to Earth day could any environmental/political subject be? There was talk of a Geoenginnering booth here which might recieve as many as10,000+ visitors but I am not sure the booth is going to pan out however the Festival should be Fun and Informative, lots of info booths, entertainment, music speakers, etc.

I would personally like to see, as I have said often, those involved with science work more on the "analytical" side. I am looking into this myself as well a quite a few other folks. We are just now in the early discussion stage as to what to look for and how.

SmT

[halva]

SmT, the OIKIA group in Athens has been talking about organizing a function on climate change, perhaps for Earth Day.

As I explained, OIKIA is still rather dubious about chemtrails/engineering, though they have been exposed to some preliminary information. This is one reason I want to see interaction with e.g. the Santa Cruz group.

ATTAC-Hellas had a seminar on climate change and chemtrails/geoengineering, but only about half the group turned up to it. ATTAC is really more interested in economics.

ATTAC-Hellas will however be having another seminar on genetically modified foods.

[letxa2000]

Lynn george: Yes it would be good if some representatives from each of the many, many chemtrail research groups, individuals, and websites could stay better linked perhaps in a forum like MegaSprayer or such. Or, perhaps an E-mail service could be started and advertised around on all the different sites that would help to keep everybody up to speed on current chemtrail and related happenings.

The single most important thing that could be done is to define chemtrails and make a rational case to the public, both the uninformed as well as the skeptics. Until the problem is well-defined, some real proof is made available, some cut-and-dry criteria is agreed upon, and until these findings are presented to the scientific community, all the linking and advertising is just spinning your wheels in the sand. You're not going to get anything but frustrated.

[halva]

Letxa, you are wanting to debate an issue which is not in question for this group. The matter of communication with the public is not a subject that has to be mediated through debate with debunkers.

[halva]

The repertoire of trickery resorted to by debunkers is really quite limited and we see one of their handful of stratagems now being tried out by Letxa.

Reynolds withdraws, to be replaced by another debunker who has allegedly been "on holidays" and so has missed all the demonstrations of the last pages of the total superfluity of the debunker presence here.

This gives him the right to start the discussion - HIS discussion - again from square one.

At first he assumes the role of the "helper", who is just wanting to make it easier for us to solve our public relations problems with the great mass of the population who are debunkers without knowing it.

Debunkers go into "helpful" mode between humiliations, which they never remember for more than five minutes.

[liakopoulos]

JAY , PLEASE DON'T GO. I PROMISE TO OFFER YOU A BETTER TOILET. COME ON MAN..................BUT IF YOU REALLY HAVE DECIDED TO GO, I REALLY WISH YOU WELL AND I AM THANKFULL FOR THE FUN....

[liakopoulos]

WHO IS LEXTRA 2000? UDENTIFY PLEASE....

[gaiacomm]

lextra will not be around long...the hackers have his tail!

Let him keep posting!

Technology can also be used as a weapon!


Halva this thread is yours again...take care of it!

[airtankerpilot]

Letxa, you are wanting to debate an issue which is not in question for this group. The matter of communication with the public is not a subject that has to be mediated through debate with debunkers.

Well Lexta is completely right. If you think you can convince the public in the same way you would convince conspiracy minded people, you are wrong.

If after 6 years of trying that, and getting laughed off of websites, message boards, newspaper columns, and being the biggest running joke on flightinfo.com, you might want to try a different tact, than just photos of irregular contrails and claims You know chemtrails when you see them.

If it is truly a matter of science, then yes you should have criteria and facts, rather that have it be based on feelings, emotions, and perceptions.

Obviously if this internet hoax has not gained any ground in 6 years except among conspiracy types who do not need evidence anyways, then you certainly are not going to gain acceptance by doing the same thing again.

Why not have a scientific explanation of why contrails can not persist?
Why not tell why contrails can not intersect?
Why not tell why contrails can not be parallel?
Why not tell about the Reptilian space alien pilots in their Orbs?
WHy not tell about the blood cells and viruses being released?

Scientific explanations will take you a lot further than incorrect aviation related statements and telling them they will know a chemtrail when they see it

[letxa2000]

halva: Letxa, you are wanting to debate an issue which is not in question for this group. The matter of communication with the public is not a subject that has to be mediated through debate with debunkers.

No, but I've seen no serious effort to communicate the issue to the public. And if/when you do, you're going to have to answer the same questions the "debunkers" ask you anyway. So you might as well do a trial-run with those of us that are already interested in hearing your answers. If you go to the mainstream media with what I've seen believers state in the forums, you're going to be fully ignored. And it won't have anything to do with the mainstream media being censored or run by TPTB and will have everything to do with them not wanting to look like fools by publishing unsubstantiated claims that aren't based in science and which defy logic.


The repertoire of trickery resorted to by debunkers is really quite limited and we see one of their handful of stratagems now being tried out by Letxa. Reynolds withdraws, to be replaced by another debunker who has allegedly been "on holidays" and so has missed all the demonstrations of the last pages of the total superfluity of the debunker presence here.

What you call "strategy" is reality. Check my posts on CTC. Ask BoomerChick at CTC who I had offered to meet in person while in Colorado. I was on vacation. The only thing missing in this thread was the suggestion that my vacation had to do with some strategy of debunking chemtrail beliefs so that Jay could take a break. :Sigh:


This gives him the right to start the discussion - HIS discussion - again from square one.

The previous questions, as far as I can tell, were never adequately answered. The last few pages have talked about anything and everything EXCEPT chemtrails. I'm trying to get the thread back on track, notwithstanding your efforts to keep it off-topic by discussing "debunker strategy" and gaiacomm's ongoing threats instead of talking about chemtrails. And chemtrails are the real issue, no?

[Bonehead9]

I think now the debunkers will stay away because of the hacker patrol that will most likely post their respective personal data somewhere on the internet for others to see and to do whatever. They were warned!

They watch also and when called upon to do what they do best they are quite good and quick. All they need is to watch when Jay and others post to snatch their tails!

Anyway, I will pursue many avenues to help the cause!


I haven't gone away yet, big guy. I am just waithing for you to stop spamming and post something inteligent. Uh, on second thought, I guess that does mean I won't be posting here that much anymore, since you haven't made one inteligent post in 83 pages.


Liafraud has also failed the criteria for inteligent posts. In fact, since only SMT has made any effort to discuss this issue, I have to give her a big hand, and

You, Gollum and Grima, on the other hand are on my ignore list (unless you say something really stupid).

[gaiacomm]

I think now the debunkers will stay away because of the hacker patrol that will most likely post their respective personal data somewhere on the internet for others to see and to do whatever. They were warned!

They watch also and when called upon to do what they do best they are quite good and quick. All they need is to watch when Jay and others post to snatch their tails!

Anyway, I will pursue many avenues to help the cause!


It will be interesting to read their personal data. It won;t be posted here but others pay for this type of info...i hear!

I do know that bonehead and lextra have their tails snatched.... something is on the net!

[Bonehead9]

Halva this thread is yours again...take care of it!

LMAO

:lol: :lol: :lol:




Gaiacomm: ”Halva, this car is yours again. Take care of it!”


:lol: :lol: :lol:

[halva]

It has been my suggestion for some time now that this thread (or rather the other thread, but the distinctions between them are not being observed) revert to notice board status, and debunker input be ignored.

Liakopoulos and gaiacomm have wanted to keep arguing, and SmT, heaven help her, has wanted to keep discussing. That is why I myself have done more than just post notices.

If gaiacomm is going to depart now, he is only doing what I said pages ago that he should do.

[airtankerpilot]

Some of us are completely willing and able to discuss SPECIFICS, instead of vague assertions, emotions and perceptions.

How about things like the national airspace system and air traffic control
Aircraft types
Engine types
Lapse Rate
Air density at altitude
Contrail persistence
Temperature at altitude
Meteorology

A theory has to have the details correct, or else is just falls apart. You cant just avoid discussion of details but then expect people to jump on your conspiracy.

Chemtrail believers usually shy away from those pesky details, because "they know what they see". Show me one chemmie who has endeavored to learn about the specifics of meteorology, and aviation.

Not one...

[Bonehead9]

And I too, have been willing to discuss the specifics of contrail formation and dispersion, but unfortunately, when I pointed out some specific errors in posts by certain people, I was subjected to insults and threats.

I offered to discuss the issue of Global Warming with you on the other thread, Halva. You refused to do so. Apparently not because of any input or argument that I had, but rather just because you did not want to converse with me personally.

That was too bad, because I though that there are several interesting avenues of discussion available in that topic.

Gaiacomm certainly didn’t help you out on that thread, either.

When are you going to accept the fact (like most of your fellow sycophants at CTC) that Gaiacomm is a phony? He has certainly done more to hurt your cause than to support it.

[gaiacomm]

And I too, have been willing to discuss the specifics of contrail formation and dispersion, but unfortunately, when I pointed out some specific errors in posts by certain people, I was subjected to insults and threats.

I offered to discuss the issue of Global Warming with you on the other thread, Halva. You refused to do so. Apparently not because of any input or argument that I had, but rather just because you did not want to converse with me personally.

That was too bad, because I though that there are several interesting avenues of discussion available in that topic.

Gaiacomm certainly didn’t help you out on that thread, either.

When are you going to accept the fact (like most of your fellow sycophants at CTC) that Gaiacomm is a phony? He has certainly done more to hurt your cause than to support it.




Gaiacomm is a phony! Interesting statement considering it came form someone that has poor credit!

[jayreynolds]

Show me one chemmie who has endeavored to learn about the specifics of meteorology, and aviation.

Not one...


this one did.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000033.html

3t3L1 was a bonafide PhD. She learned the truth, including identifying the planes she saw overhead using Flight Explorer. She was the Science Forum moderator at chemtrailcentral. You can read her posts in the science forum there on pages 3 & 4. She set herself free by learning the truth. She quit the cult successfully. I wish many more the same success,
even Lance Haubrick( gaiacomm ), who needs therapy for his multiple personality disorder.
Jay

[gaiacomm]

Show me one chemmie who has endeavored to learn about the specifics of meteorology, and aviation.

Not one...


this one did.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000033.html

3t3L1 was a bonafide PhD. She learned the truth, including identifying the planes she saw overhead using Flight Explorer. She was the Science Forum moderator at chemtrailcentral. You can read her posts in the science forum there on pages 3 & 4. She set herself free by learning the truth. She quit the cult successfully. I wish many more the same success,
even Lance Haubrick( gaiacomm ), who needs therapy for his multiple personality disorder.
Jay



Thank you Jay...I wish you and your family the best as well!

[jayreynolds]

When are you going to accept the fact (like most of your fellow sycophants at CTC) that Gaiacomm is a phony? He has certainly done more to hurt your cause than to support it.

He was actually outed long ago.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001387.html

[airtankerpilot]

Show me one chemmie who has endeavored to learn about the specifics of meteorology, and aviation.

Not one...


this one did.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000033.html

3t3L1 was a bonafide PhD. She learned the truth, including identifying the planes she saw overhead using Flight Explorer. She was the Science Forum moderator at chemtrailcentral. You can read her posts in the science forum there on pages 3 & 4. She set herself free by learning the truth. She quit the cult successfully. I wish many more the same success,
even Lance Haubrick( gaiacomm ), who needs therapy for his multiple personality disorder.
Jay

Well she is not a chemmie, but a FORMER chemmie. :)

THere are others who studied the details of the issue and the science/physics involved who realized chemtrails was silly. I can think of several ex chemmies off the top of my head, including two who helped run chemtrail message board at one time. They were insulted, treated with derision, and hecked for daring to leave the chemtrail cult.

But I Just cant think of anyone who studied details and science of it rationally and logically, and then believed in chemtrails.