It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature

[jayreynolds]

When the same individuals next turn to mainstream media and search GoogleNews for current news on Chemtrails - they get nothing, not one single shred of information.

Well, I take that back, sort of. Lightman is wrong when he says folks who make a google news search on 'chemtrails' "get nothing".

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&q=chemtrails&btnG=Search+News

They get several hits, yes, but none of it is information, it's all bizarre conspiracy theories.

Ha!

[halva]

But you must admit, Raynolds, that if the scenario I outline is the one that is destined to unfold, it will not matter that this Mrs. Clinton "scares the hell" out of Americans. Quite the contrary. It will be to her advantage.

.

[jayreynolds]

There is no truth to the 9-11 truth movement, Monica liked doing Bill, and neither have anything to do with the 'chemtrails' hoax.

[halva]

You are as certain about that as I am about chemtrails.

[halva]

But I think your beliefs about Monica and Bill may be more sincere.

[halva]

Aigina Portal

Chemtrails over Aigina
http://www.aeginaportal.gr/eidiseis/aeropsekasmoi-pano-apo-tin-aigina-fotografies.html

[halva]

The "Evdomadiaia" of Aigina also has a front-page on chemtrails this week. Nothing to do with me.

[halva]

http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=5217

Newscast’s Chemtrail Investigation Reveals Dangerous Aerosolized Compounds

Published on Tuesday, January 08, 2008.

Source: JonesReport - Aaron Dykes

Related: Global Warming Engineered By Chemtrails?

Local news station KSLA in Shreveport, Louisiana investigated a strange substance found by a man from the Arkansas-Lousiana-Texas border, which the man collected on the ground from a chemtrail overhead. He noticed the crisscrossed cloud-like lines in the sky as well as the unusual residue it left behind on vehicles after descending in a "haze."
KSLA’s Jeff Ferrell noted that these chemtrails "do not fade away like a normal contrail."

KSLA ran the substances through a lab and found high levels of Barium (6.8 ppm) and Lead (8.2 ppm) as well as trace amounts of other chemicals including arsenic, chromium, cadmium, selenium and silver. Of these, all but one are metals, some are toxic while several are rarely or never found in nature.


The newscast focuses on Barium, which its research shows is a "hallmark of chemtrails." KSLA found Barium levels in its samples at 6.8 ppm or "more than six times the toxic level set by the EPA." The Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality confirmed that the high levels of Barium were "very unusual," but commented that "proving the source was a whole other matter" in its discussion with KSLA.

KSLA also asked Mark Ryan, Director of the Poison Control Center, about the effects of Barium on the human body. Ryan commented that "short term exposure can lead to anything from stomach to chest pains and that long term exposure causes blood pressure problems." The Poison Control Center further reported that long-term exposure, as with any harmful substance, would contribute to weakening the immune system, which many speculate is the purpose of such man-made chemical trails.

Wikipedia warns about Barium’s highly reactive nature and potential harm to health:

Barium is a soft silvery metallic alkaline earth metal… never found in nature in its pure form due to its reactivity with air. It is also highly reactive with water or alcohol, producing hydrogen gas.

Its various compounds have a number of industrial uses including x-ray imaging, rat poison, battery technology, lighting and electricity.

All water or acid soluble barium compounds are extremely poisonous. At low doses, barium acts as a muscle stimulant, while higher doses affect the nervous system, causing cardiac irregularities, tremors, weakness, anxiety, dyspnea and paralysis.

Unlike other heavy metals, barium does not bioaccumulate.[1] However, inhaled dust containing barium compounds can accumulate in the lungs, causing a benign condition called baritosis.

Barium acetate could lead to death in high doses. Marie Robards poisoned her father with the substance in Texas in 1993. She was tried and convicted in 1996.

KSLA also put aerosolized-chemical testing in its historical context, citing a voluminous number of unclassified tests exposed in 1977 Senate hearings. The tests included experimenting with biochemical compounds on the public. KSLA reports that "239 populated areas were contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969."

On screen representations included ‘Operation bacterium’, ‘1949 germ bombs’ (explosive munitions tests with pathogens), ‘1950 "first" open-air tests’ with biological agents (coast of Norfolk, VA) and the ‘1950 spraying of San Francisco’ (the first large-scale aerosol test using Bacillus globigii(also known as Bacillus subtilis) and Serratia marcescens, both similar to B. anthracis (a causative agent of anthrax). These examples were only the beginning of a long chronological list.

While B. subtilis is not, for example, considered a human pathogen (according to Wikipedia), it has "proven highly amenable to genetic manipulation, and has therefore become widely adopted as a model organism for laboratory studies." Thus, it was utilized as a "biowarfare stimulant" during Project SHAD, a series of chemical and biological warfare tests carried out by the DoD in the 1960s now only partially declassified.

Furthermore, a 1994 report issued by Senator John D. Rockefeller exposed the fact "hundreds of thousands of military personnel were subjected to secret biological experiments over the last 60 years." The tests involved mustard gas, nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psychochemicals, hallucinogens and drugs used during the Gulf War.

Even more shocking, KSLA reports that secret biochemical experimentation was allowed by law"until nine years ago", but is still permitted in at least in some instances. See:

PUBLIC LAW 95-79 [P.L. 95-79] TITLE 50, CHAPTER 32, SECTION 1520 "CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL WARFARE PROGRAM" "The use of human subjects will be allowed for the testing of chemical and biological agents by the U.S. Department of Defense, accounting to Congressional committees with respect to the experiments and studies." "The Secretary of Defense [may] conduct tests and experiments involving the use of chemical and biological [warfare] agents on civilian populations [within the United States]." -SOURCE- Public Law 95-79, Title VIII, Sec. 808, July 30, 1977, 91 Stat. 334. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 91, page 334, you will find Public Law 95-79. Public Law 97-375, title II, Sec. 203(a)(1), Dec. 21, 1982, 96 Stat. 1882. In U.S. Statutes-at-Large, Vol. 96, page 1882, you will find Public Law 97-375.

KSLA’s probing report left open the question of whether biochemical testing was currently underway, but raised a number of disturbing parallels and reason for suspicion.

Another mainstream report in Germany highlights contemporary activities by military aircraft involving chemtrails. Meteorologist Karsten Brandt has correlated patterns of heavy artificial cloud-cover with the areas of known military jet exercises in Germany during 2005 and 2006. For Brandt, the pattern clearly indicates the manipulation of meteorological maps and strongly suggests weather modification programs, used possibly in conjunction with disguising aircraft in radar systems, among other potential implications and applications.


Still another report in Los Angeles by NBC 4 reported on a "sticky yellow slime" left behind from chemtrails in parts of California, which is possibly connected with a rise in respiratory illness, nosebleeds and eye infections– though this is denied by official sources, including the local air force unit.

However, Rosalind Peterson of California Skywatch, who NBC 4 interviewed, claims to have test results that support a sharp spike in barium oxide and aluminum since the early 1990s, including in the water supply. For NBC 4, it is a case of geoengineering– putting a cloud of aerosolized dust supposedly meant to combat global warming by reflecting harmful radiation back into space– in other words, seeming to confirm the use of some form of chemtrails.

While the report remains skeptical, it does concede the application of weather modification. Official sources, however, deny the existence of chemtrails, claiming that locals are seeing long-lasting contrails– and nothing more.

[halva]

http://unitedfor911truth.com/index.php?act=Post&CODE=02&f=64&t=65

[halva]

.

[halva]

Capodistrias-Spinelli initiative

Philip Dragoumis
Altiero Spinelli and the European Constitution (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICjSHgnGS8U
Altiero Spinelli and the European Constitution (Part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CelxrMo93eU

Altiero Spinelli (European Parliament video)
mms://wm.streampower.be/ep/ondemand/spinelli_hommage_20060524.wmv

Also see interview with Sofia Sfyroera
http://www.enouranois.gr/english/european_integration/indexaiginakapodistrias.htm

[halva]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7980

Part of the Information Operation Roadmap's plans for the internet are to "ensure the graceful degradation of the network rather than its collapse." (pg 45) This is presented in "defensive" terms, but presumably, it is as exclusively defensive as the Department of Defense.

As far as the Pentagon is concerned the internet is not all bad, after all, it was the Department of Defense through DARPA that gave us the internet in the first place. The internet is useful not only as a business tool but also is excellent for monitoring and tracking users, acclimatizing people to a virtual world, and developing detailed psychological profiles of every user, among many other Pentagon positives. But, one problem with the current internet is the potential for the dissemination of ideas and information not consistent with US government themes and messages, commonly known as free speech. Naturally, since the plan was to completely dominate the "infosphere," the internet would have to be adjusted or replaced with an upgraded and even more Pentagon friendly successor.

In an article by Paul Joseph Watson of Prison Planet.com, he describes the emergence of Internet 2.

"The development of "Internet 2" is also designed to create an online caste system whereby the old Internet hubs would be allowed to break down and die, forcing people to use the new taxable, censored and regulated world wide web. If you're struggling to comprehend exactly what the Internet will look like in five years unless we resist this, just look at China and their latest efforts to completely eliminate dissent and anonymity on the web."

[halva]

Of course, we don't all insist on the right to be anonymous, even from the Chinese or even from the Pentagon.

More useful than the right to be anonymous would be the right to GENERALIZED transparency.

[halva]

Last night in Athens, Greece, Dr. Dimitris Lalas gave a report on the results of the Bali Climate Change Conference.

Jeff Reynolds Dr, Dimitris Lalas thinks that the proposals of geoengineers like Crutzen are so unacceptable that we shouldn't give them any encouragement by talking about them in public.

[halva]

01/02/2008 : The St. Petersburg Times
Russia : Environmentalists Held For Trying to Measure Radiation


http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id0&story_id$868

The St. Petersburg Times Issue #1344 (8)
Friday, February 1, 2008

Environmentalists Held For Trying to Measure Radiation
By Galina StolyarovaStaff Writer

The police detained three environmentalists and a local photographer
Wednesday as the ecologists tried to measure radiation levels outside
wagons carrying radioactive material. The activists and the
journalist were released without charge.

Tatyana Kulbakina of the Murmansk-based non-governmental organization
Nature and Youth, and Rashid Alimov and Alexei Snigiryov of the
environmental pressure group Bellona, were monitoring Kapitolovo
train station (next to Isotope, a state-owned enterprise responsible
for the transportation of radioactive substances) which is normally
used by trains carrying such shipments, when they received a phone
call from Sergei Yermokhin, a photographer with the local weekly Moi
Rayon. Yermokhin told the ecologists that a train had arrived and
called them to join him.

The ecologists and the photographer were tracking down the route of a
large shipment of uranium hexafluoride, a toxic low-radioactive
compound used in the uranium enrichment process that makes fuel for
nuclear weapons and nuclear reactors.

The hazardous cargo arrived in St. Petersburg on Wednesday, Jan. 23,
on board the MV Schouwenbank, a ship carrying containers with a total
of 2,000 tons of depleted uranium hexafluoride from the Gronau
uranium enrichment facility in Germany. The radioactive load on board
the ship is due to be sent by rail to the town of Novouralsk in
Siberia for reprocessing and storage.

According to Bellona, Russia is the only country in the world that
receives uranium hexafluoride from abroad in industrial quantities.
Russian officials claim that uranium hexafluoride is as safe as
toothpaste, while the ecologists regard the compound is "nuclear
waste."

According to Russian legislation, the import of nuclear waste is
banned in the country but the trick is that uranium hexafluoride is
not on the list of the compounds officially recognized in the
"nuclear waste" category.

"When Sergei called us, we were very near but when we got to the
spot, I barely had time to measure the radiation level, which was 65
microroentgen per hour, about five times more than average level,"
Alimov recounts. "Security and the police would not let us continue,
although we were not on a restricted-access territory. In fact, we
were right next to the passenger train platforms."

Isotope staff saw Yermokhin taking photographs of the train and
promptly sent their private security guards to the scene. Within
minutes, the police arrived as well.

"They took our passports, without as much as introducing themselves
or saying what it was that we had violated," Alimov recalls. "At the
same time, both the security guards and the police were on the
offensive from the start. They made direct attempts to intimidate us
and said we put ourselves at risk by hanging around Isotope and the
hazardous cargo; one of the men said we could have even been dealt
with by the interior ministry troops, if not shot at."

The four were then driven in a civilian car to the nearby police
station in Kuzmolovo, questioned at length and released without
charge.

The ecologists said they were amazed to see that Isotope staff seemed
to have orchestrated the whole process.

"They were telling the police what to ask, how to go about things and
at some point they started telling the officers to hurry up!" Alimov
said.

"They were also lecturing us about the advantages of nuclear industry
all the way through, while making nonsensical remarks about how we
could have shown terrorists how to get to the cargo," Alimov added.

Environmentalists across the country stress that independent
monitoring of nuclear safety is being made complicated by officials.

"Independent experts can be denied access to facilities, and the very
possibility of measuring radiation levels in the proximity of nuclear
objects is often a problem," said Olga Tsepilova, deputy head of the
environmental faction of the liberal party Yabloko and an
environmental scientist with the Institute of Sociology of the
Russian Academy of Sciences.

Russian officials argue that ordinary Russians are poorly prepared to
deal with this subject, and the release of any relevant information
would spark panic among members of the public.
But ecologists accuse the officials of hypocrisy.

"Had the storage facilities been secure, the technologies reliable,
the radiation levels normal, the funds sufficient and well-spent,
independent experts would have been welcome, in any numbers,"
Tsepilova said.

© Copyright The St. Petersburg Times 1993 - 2007

[halva]

Here is some discussion on the idea that we should be giving publicity to advocates of geoengineering such as David Keith.

Look at this lecture by David Keith.
http://www.enouranois.gr/english/political/indexkeith.htm

What is your reaction to it??
He is based in Calgary.


I read the transcript of the lecture. You asked for my reactions and I had a few. I think a good scientific mind will always be open to enquire about the truth of beliefs it holds, and evaluate even counterintuitive ideas. i think re-evaluation of ideas counter to our own can only keep us on our toes. perhaps there can be a way to fix some problems by spraying things in the atmosphere. That being said, my experience in life up to now leads me to believe there are always unintended consequences to our actions, and that huge actions would have huge, perhaps catastrophic, consequences. I believe it is entirely possible that the present secretive spray operation is one of those actions that is perhaps already showing catastrophic consequences (exacerbating animal die-offs eg. bees, tree species die-offs, just for example). I am also a strong advocate of stopping this secret experiment, since it seems to be in the hands of such idiots, so we can assess the damage.

It is no good advocating that it be stopped to people who do not acknowledge that it is happening. This is the block that parliamentarians come up against when they raise the issue.

[halva]

A collection of articles on geoengineering in Greek (translations from mainstream press):
http://www.physics4u.gr/page9.html

At "Physics 4 U: The Number One Physics portal in Greece"

[halva]

----- Original Message -----
From: Alexandra Strickner
Vienna, Austria

www.tradeobservatory.org

Subject: New post at "Global Labor Strategies"


New post at "Global Labor Strategies"
Turtles and Teamsters Together Again?
(second in a series on labor and global warming after Bali)

At the 1999 “Battle of Seattle” against the World Trade Organization, a prominent sign celebrated the emerging labor-environmental coalition with the slogan, “Turtles and Teamsters: Together at Last!” The threat of global warming is updating that slogan to “Turtles and Teamsters: Together Again.”

At the core of this convergence has been the mantra “green jobs.” While some in the labor movement have long feared that environmental policies would lead to the loss of jobs, others have long argued that appropriate environmental strategies would lead to a much greater increase in “green jobs.”

The green jobs argument has been greatly strengthened by the emergence of global warming as a national, local, and global issue. Scientists have established that limiting the catastrophic results of global warming requires massive cuts in the emission of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gasses. And that in turn will take a complete reconstruction of our economies to run on a low-carbon basis. Such a reconstruction will take massive investment – and create millions of jobs.

The coming-of-age party for this alliance may well be “Good Jobs, Green Jobs: A National Green Jobs Conference” scheduled for March 13-14 in Pittsburgh, PA. The event is coordinated by the Blue-Green Alliance, a “strategic partnership” of the United Steelworkers union and the environmentalist Sierra Club. The conference will bring together advocates representing “local, state and federal policy makers; labor; business; the environment and public health; economic and workforce development specialists; investors; and scientists and technology experts.” The aim is to launch a “nationwide dialogue about moving our country rapidly toward leadership in promoting a new green economy.”

Conveners of the conference include heavy hitters from organized labor, including some who have previously held aloof from actions addressed to global warming. Both U.S. labor federations, the AFL-CIO and Change to Win, are listed as conveners. So are such unions as the Service Employees, Industrial Division of the Communication Workers, Operating Engineers Local 95, United Food and Commercial workers, and United Steelworkers.

A lesson from Australia?

New York mayor Michael Blumberg recently stated that global warming won’t be on the agenda at the next election. “It’s not really discussed by the presidential candidates.” But public concern is forcing presidential frontrunners to address global warming. Indeed, all presidential candidates who have not taken global warming seriously have dropped out or been marginalized.

According to a July, 2007 Gallup poll, 62 percent of Americans now believe that global warming is an urgent threat requiring immediate and drastic action. 68 percent favor, at least in principle, an international treaty that requires the US to cut carbon dioxide emissions 90 percent by 2050. According to polling by GlobeScan, 77 percent want to limit greenhouse gas production by companies. Nearly 60 percent believe it will be “necessary to take major steps very soon.” In a Sacred Heart University Polling Institute study, the environment rated highest among seven issues that would affect Americans’ presidential voting. 93 percent of respondents say they would be more likely to support a candidate who promises action to improve the environment – more than the proportion who want a candidate who will maintain a strong military.

Green jobs have become a major campaign issue for Democratic presidential candidates. All the major Democratic candidates endorsed legislation calling for an 80 percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 – roughly in line with what climate scientists say is necessary to limit destructive climate change.

Hillary Clinton supports a cap-and-trade system on greenhouse gas emissions and a $50 billion clean energy fund to help create 5 million new jobs. She says all new coal plants should be required to capture their carbon.

Barack Obama has proposes economy-wide limits on emissions and a system that would require large emitters of carbon to pay for the right to emit greenhouse gasses and raising fuel efficiency standards for automobiles. Obama co-sponsored a fuel-from-coal bill, but reversed himself under pressure and said he would only support clean coal initiatives that would reduce carbon emissions by 20 percent as compared with conventional fuels.8 Part of that pressure came from a labor-environmental alliance.

Republican front-runner John McCain says he will make global warming one of his top three priorities as President. He was sponsor of an early bill on global warming, but it called for reducing carbon emissions by only 65 percent by 2050. He is a fervent supporter of nuclear power. Other Republican candidates have issued no comprehensive plans for addressing global warming.

Despite public concern and candidate attention to global warming, the media has virtually suppressed the issue. The League of Conservation voters tracked the questions asked of presidential candidates on the Sunday news shows and televised debates. David Sandretti, spokesman for the League, says the results were “stunning.” Of the more than 2,900 questions asked, only four have mentioned the words “global warming.” Wolf Blitzer has asked 440 questions and Chris Wallace has asked 572 questions; two for each mentioned global warming. George Stephanopoulos and Bob Schieffer asked 778 and 279 questions respectively – none of which mentioned global warming.

The Blue-Green Alliance has called on presidential candidates to commit to:

• A 2% reduction in carbon emissions every year

• A 2% increase in manufacturing jobs based on a new energy economy

• Rewriting American trade laws to advance labor and environmental standards

The Green Jobs conference may be particularly will positioned – both in time and in geography – to jump-start this part of the presidential debate. And, given the growing public concern about global warming, it could prove critical. The Australian Labor Party recently drove a prime minister more than vaguely reminiscent of George W. Bush out of office in a historical electoral upset. Australian trade unionists proudly state that they invested more than $1 million to highlight the importance of global warming in the election – and that it became a central issue in the defeat of the conservatives. In the aftermath of the election, the new prime minister traveled to the UN climate change conference in Bali to sign the Kyoto climate change agreement – leaving George Bush as the only leader of a major country not to sign.

Even if a candidate who campaigned on green jobs is elected, labor and environmental allies will need to hold them accountable in office. They will need to remember that President Bill Clinton campaigned on a plan to create new jobs through massive public investment, but ditched it in favor of balancing the budget once he came into office. University of Miami political scientist George Gonzales recently commented on the presidential candidates’ global warming promises: “Can we understand how they will govern based on how they campaign? Unfortunately not.”

What will matter is the balance of pressure on them between the “friends of global warming” and the public’s demand for an effective response to the threat of climate change.

Y.R.

[halva]

Comment by halva:

There are a number of points to be made about global warming, as the issue is conventionally presented.

Firstly, the lack of concern about global warming amongst certain sections of the public, particularly in the United States, is not, in the first instance, due to lack of media coverage. There is ample media coverage. It is due to the political influence of "sceptics", not only through their inevitable inclusion in corporate media climate change debate but also through a very powerful grass roots internet presence. Climate change "scepticism" has a fanatical popular constituency supporting it, whose fanaticism is kept stoked by the way the popular climate change debate is structured, with the only recognized protagonists in debate the "sceptics" (conservatives) on one side and the "true believers" (liberals) on the other. The climate change debate duplicates the American Republican/Democrat party divide, with just a layer of Republican top-level power politicians adopting a "realistic" attitude to climate change, typically in conjunction with support for nuclear power.

The global warming debate is a retooled variant of the nuclear weapons debate between nuclear "hawks" and nuclear "appeasers" that played similar divide-and-rule functions throughout the Cold War up to the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Just as the hawks advocated "toughing it out" in relation to the "Soviet nuclear threat" during the Cold War, they now advocate "toughing it out" in response to liberal post-Cold War "climate change hysteria". The same agencies, the same laboratories, the same people, played leading roles in both the successive debates. The proposed remedy for "Soviet aggression" was accumulation of weapons of mass destruction. The proposed remedy for climate change ("if it exists" - because here there has been a structural inversion, the Cold War hyping up of a Soviet threat has turned into its opposite: "scepticism" as to the existence of threat) is another technocratic nostrum: geoengineering, including the planetary spraying of light-reflecting aerosols. The key text is Edward Teller's brief 1997 "Planet Needs A Sunscreen" piece, where he established the basic parameters of the popular climate change debate: "scepticism" on one side, technocratic "geoengineering" measures to solve the perhaps non-existent problem on the other. Read through the piece: it is brief and is the blueprint for the political game as played today:

http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3522851.html

The points made here should not be confused with sympathy for climate change "scepticism". On the contrary, the "sceptics" should be banished altogether from the discussion. Or rather, we should stop talking about what THEY want to talk about. The debate should be between the climate change movement and currently stigmatized "conspiracy theorists" who say that what we should be discussing not climate change but geoengineering. We should be talking about what is being proposed by geoengineers and allegedly also already DONE, on a huge, planetary scale, in the name of combating climate change. It is not necessary to PROVE anything to anybody in order to insist that this should be the debate.

[halva]

Chemtrails in India

N.B. from halva

I remember there being pictures of chemtrails from India in Mark Metcalf's 2004 "Chemtrails of the World" calendar.

http://www.buergerwelle.de/body_chemtrails_of_the_world.html


Sent: 16 February 2008 05:24
To: stopchemtrailsuk@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [stopchemtrailsuk] INDIA-The Chemtrailing has begun.


I am in India working with a street children's charity. I am seldom near anywhere with net access.

Chemtrailing started here just before Christmas, I believe this to be the first time as I have spent the past four seasons here without seeing one chem. (part of the attraction). Many people especially children, have deep hacking coughs and surprise surprise flu like symptoms.

I find this extra sad as they are buying in the pharmacies medicines for flu that are banned worldwide. These drugs are banned because they cause liver failure, stroke and cancer. Great flu cures though!

Anyone thinking of visiting India should check the list of medicines
I have put up here http://ccaudwell.bulldoghome.com/pages/ccaudwell_bulldoghome_com/Warning/index.html.

I will also request, albeit not quite the groups purpose, that if anyone has Indian friends they pass this info on, mainly as many UK Indian families do still have contact with relatives here and we are doing our utmost to spread this information as fast and as far as is humanly possible.

I consider every person informed is one less chemtrail related victim. This is a definite case of the cure being worse than the sickness.

The evil f----- may have started on India late but they are at it with a vengeance.Very heavy chemtrailing is taking place, mainly under cover of darkness. Saw a few trails being laid in December when the sky was
still blue but now sky is seldom clear enough to see much at all . No more blue skies in the morning just a thick white blanket.

How they are covering such a mass is beyond me. I am on west coast where earlier this year the sun slipped slowly into the sea every evening. Not any more, sun now disappears behind a thick fog bank a long time before it gets even close to the horizon.

Seen sun dogs at midday and the nights are akin to aluminum snow blizzards. The locals all complain that is much colder than usual. For the first time since I have been coming here I find I need a jumper for the
evenings as well as having a blanket on bed..

[foot_soldier]

.

[halva]

From Arkansas:

Under the provisions of the Federal Aviation Act of 1958 all aircraft flying in the US are required to have ID markings.

Here are a couple of shots of Chem Trail planes and one of those black helicopters we hear about. These pictures come from this photo essay by Carole Pellatt:

http://homepage.mac.com/carolepellatt/Feb7/PhotoAlbum278.html

[halva]

More on aerosol spraying over Aigina

http://www.aeginaportal.gr/eidiseis/aeropsekasmoi-pano-apo-tin-aigina.html

[halva]

And the above publicity seems to be the straw that broke the camel's back. A leading and well-connected and subsidised climate change activist, a comfortable professional resident on Aigina, has changed his position on chemtrails and moved from becoming part of the problem to being part of the solution.

[halva]

And now a group of kids on Aigina, no connection with me, have decided to make themselves into the Greek bridgehead for this initiative:

http://el.wordpress.com/tag/earth-hour/

How it all began:
Πως ξεκίνησαν όλα

(click to start the video)
The You Tube video is in Australian English
http://earthhourhellas.wordpress.com/

[halva]

http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=917401&postcount=304

That is from this thread:
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=64587&page=31

[halva]

Strange looking chemtrails over Kent, England.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz5grO0qvAs

[halva]

The Greek climate change sceptic chemmies are starting to attack us for supporting Earth Hour.

http://www.earthhour.org/supporting-cities

Deluded pedants.

[halva]

Footsoldier would agree here, at least.

[halva]

Here is a new name:
http://newyorkskywatch.com/2008/03/04/skywatch-radio-march-3-2008/

[halva]

Anyone for David Keith in French
http://www.chemtrails-france.com/geoingenierie/2007-09_conference_david_keith/index.htm

or in Greek
http://www.enouranois.gr/video/tedkeithtelikomikro.wmv

???

[siegmund]

From Arkansas:

Under the provisions of the Federal Aviation Act of 1958 all aircraft flying in the US are required to have ID markings.

CORRECT


Here are a couple of shots of Chem Trail planes and one of those black helicopters we hear about. These pictures come from this photo essay by Carole Pellatt:

http://homepage.mac.com/carolepellatt/Feb7/PhotoAlbum278.html

Here is one shot where you can identify the plane



My advice to Carole: Buy a better camera.

[siegmund]

BTW: Carole's black helicopter is nothing but an UH-60 Blackhawk:



In case of a back lighted shot the Blackhawk appears black. Of course.

[Jeff Reynolds]

She also doesn't mind linking to global warming deniers and Rense.

And her name is too similar to a carolyn pallitt, I think that's how it's spelled. I found one Chemtroll Central post where Swamp Gas was protecting her tinfoil crap while chastizing an apparently real chemmie named newtonnjd. You have fun beating down these fake chemmies, Siegfried, if you want to. The whole chemtrail forum thing has been rigged.

[halva]

Jeff Reynolds is once again aiding and abetting debunkers. There is no one else he is able to talk to. And he wants more of them back here so that he will have more company. Siegfried is a global warming denier but Jeff Reynolds sees nothing wrong with seeking Siegfried's approval for an accusation against chemtrails and militarisation of space activists that they are global warming deniers.

[halva]

How many people here know that Cyprus has a Communist president and that he and his government look set to become pioneers of the anti-nuclear struggle in the Mediterranean?.

[halva]

Andrew Johnson has put on line a "Chemtrail Data Logging" form.

http://www.checktheevidence.com/Chemtrails/Log/chemlog.php

[halva]

http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/3/mud.php


We Will Bury You. In Mud.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David E. Brown



Forget Bush's National Missile Shield. The best military defense is a Russian winter. It got the better of King Charles XII of Sweden, sent Napoleon packing, and eventually shooed Hitler away. A few years after that, though, it was the Germans that were favored by the weather gods—for weeks, Patton's Third Army was stuck near the edge of Germany, plagued by rain that kept American tanks and trucks and soldiers in place. The general's solution? A prayer to those gods:

Almighty and most merciful Father, we humbly beseech Thee, of Thy great goodness, to restrain these immoderate rains with which we have had to contend. Grant us fair weather for Battle. Graciously hearken to us as soldiers who call upon Thee that, armed with Thy power, we may advance from victory to victory, and crush the oppression and wickedness of our enemies and establish Thy justice among men and nations.1

Patton was certainly not the first military leader to beseech His Great Goodness for favorable conditions. When Hannibal invaded Italy in 217 BC, he waited for the marshes to freeze so his mounted troops could pour in. In 1776, the harsh winter helped George Washington's army, letting it move quickly across the frozen Delaware River. And in 1941, the Japanese essentially hid their aircraft carriers moving toward Pearl Harbor in a large Pacific storm.

But, to paraphrase Mark Twain, everybody prayed about the weather, but nobody did anything about it. That changed in 1946, when General Electric scientists Vincent Schaefer and Irving Langmuir created an artificial cloud by introducing dry ice into a freezer, and then developed a technique for "cloud seeding," still used today.

By the late 1950s, people began to think about our new ability to alter the weather in military terms. The Cold War was kicking into high gear, and the US intelligence community became aware that the Soviets were experimenting with cloud seeding and other kinds of weather control, such as cloud dissipation. In 1957, Henry Houghton, chair of MIT's meteorology department, noted, "I shudder to think of the consequences of a prior Russian discovery of a feasible method for weather control."2 That same year, a Presidential Advisory Committee on Weather Control noted (with perfect deadpan sensationalism) that, "weather modification could become a more important weapon than the atom bomb."3 The weather race, though never as fierce or as public as the space race or the arms race, was on. (The Soviets really were working on weather, with the hopes of, among other things, warming its vast northern regions and removing the ice in the Arctic Sea.)

That any new technology that could be used as a weapon would be used as a weapon now seems obvious—a kind of first principle of warfare—but it is a relatively recent idea, a product of the "total war" strategy of the two world wars, where tactics and weaponry became increasingly more destructive. And there was historical precedent for offensive uses of the environment. During the Franco-Dutch War of 1672-78, for example, the Dutch breached the dikes around Amsterdam, flooding part of the low-lying country and putting the French on the defensive. (The Dutch won.)

With the political and military stage set, the US got to work on figuring out how to alter the weather, and what to do with that knowledge. Much of the work seems to have been done at the Navy's China Lake weapons research center. "Between 1949 and 1978," the base's in-house newspaper, The Rocketeer, reported, "China Lake developed concepts, techniques, and hardware that were successfully used in hurricane abatement, fog control, and drought relief."4

"Drought relief" is an interesting way to put it. China Lake's research caught the eye of the CIA in the early 1960s, which saw the potential of weather control in the rapidly expanding conflict in Vietnam. The CIA's first use of the Navy's technology was crowd dispersal. "The Diem regime was having all that trouble with the Buddhists," an agent told Seymour Hersh in 1972. "They would just stand around during demonstrations when the police threw tear gas at them, but we noticed that when the rains came they wouldn't stay on. The agency got an Air America Beechcraft and had it rigged up with silver iodide. There was another demonstration and we seeded the area. It rained."5

In 1966, the idea of raining on Vietnam became the top-secret Project Popeye, which ran for some seven years and included more than 2,600 cloud-seeding flights over Vietnam and Laos. The objective was simple: Make rain that would make or keep the Ho Chi Minh Trail—a main supply route for the North Vietnamese—so muddy that it was unusable. (Why "Popeye"? The artificially created rain was apparently called "Olive Oil.")

The story of the top-secret project—flown by the Air Force but controlled by the CIA and the White House—was broken in 1971 in Jack Anderson's national newspaper column, then, to greater fanfare, in July 1972, with Hersh's front-page story in The New York Times. And while there were no rules at the time about weather modification—or any environmental warfare, for that matter—the Nixon administration was not happy with Hersh's revelations. The White House and the State Department declined comment, and one unnamed official said, "This is one of those things where no one is going to say anything."6 (People said even less about CIA weather-modification in Cuba. During 1969 and 1970, planes from China Lake seeded clouds that rained over non-agricultural regions of Cuba, leaving at least some of the country's sugar cane fields dry.)

The eventual response was an international treaty, the Convention on the Publication of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques, or ENMOD, which was ratified by the US in 1977. The main tenet of the treaty, which stands today, is this: "Each State Party to this Convention undertakes not to engage in military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting or severe effects as the means of destruction, damage or injury to any other State Party."7

Weather-control activities seem to have quieted down after ENMOD, but fortunately for the US military, the treaty has a loophole big enough to drive a truck through: It prohibits only action with "widespread, long-lasting or severe effects." When Air Force intelligence analysts turned their thoughts to the weather in the mid-1990s, they made up their own definition of these limits: widespread means affecting more than several hundred kilometers; long-lasting means for a period of months; and severe "involves serious or significant disruption or harm to human life, natural or economic resources, or other assets."8 Which is to say that, except for the human life part, most military applications, which tend to be short-term and localized, are allowed. These analysts' conclusions are contained in an extraordinary report, published in 1996, called "Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025." If the US intelligence community did ignore the weather for a while, "Owning the Weather" certainly made up for it. Envisioning a world where technology has made control over the local weather phenomena much more precise—and where a global network of sensors has greatly increased available atmospheric data—the writers declare that in three decades time, "US aerospace forces can 'own the weather'," and "shape the battlespace in ways never before possible."9

[halva]

While "Owning the Weather" relies primarily on extensions of existing weather modification techniques, the authors strike more boldly into the future with speculation about nanotechnology-based "artificial weather." "A cloud, or several clouds, of microscopic computer particles," they note, "all communicating with each other and with a larger control system could provide tremendous capability. Interconnected, atmospherically buoyant, and having navigation capability in three dimensions, such clouds could be designed to have a wide-range of properties."10

At times, the Air Force report reads like a declaration to violate the ENMOD agreement. The authors even note that the only reason they don't discuss more serious weather control—made-to-order weather, large-scale climate modification, control of storms, etc.—is that it won't be technically feasible by 2025. "Such applications would have been included in this report as potential military options," they note, "despite their controversial and potentially malevolent nature and their inconsistency with standing UN agreements to which the US is a signatory."11

Why is the United States so interested in the weather that it would violate international treaty? The answer may lie more in the psyche of the government than in specific tactical advantages. The US military has long been used to having a stacked deck. The US Navy once owned the seas; later, the Air Force had the run of the skies. For a while, our sole possession of the atomic and hydrogen bombs gave us the "ultimate" weapon. Dominion over the atmosphere might be the next "ultimate" weapon, proof not only of military invincibility but perhaps, finally, of Divine Right.

1 — Msgr. James H. O'Neill, "The True Story of the Patton Prayer," The Review of the News, October 6, 1971, available at <http://members.aol.com/PattonsGHQ/prayer.html>.
2 — United States House of Representatives Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, Subcommittee on Health and Science, Weather Modification Research: Hearings Before the Subcommittee on Health and Science. Eighty-fifth Congress, Second Session, 18-19 March, 1958 (Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1958), p. 55., as quoted in Nayef H. Samhat, "A Genealogy of Climate Change," Online Journal of Peace and Conflict Resolution 1.4 (November 1998), at <http://members.aol.com/ peacejnl/1_4samhat.htm>.
3 — M.S. Venkataramani, "To Own The Weather," Frontline (Chennai, India), Jan. 16–29, 1999 , <www.frontlineonline.com/ fl1602/16020790.htm>.
4 — "China Lake Weapons Digest: 50 Years of Providing the Fleet with the Tools of the Trade," The Rocketeer, Nov. 4, 1993, reprinted at <www.nawcwpns.navy.mil/~bronkhor/ clmf/weapdig.html>.
5 — Seymour M. Hersh, "Rainmaking Is Used As Weapon by U.S.," The New York Times, July 3, 1972, pp. 1-2.
6 — Hersh, op. cit.
7 — "Convention on the Prohibition of Military or any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques," 1108 U.N.T.S. 151, entered into force Oct. 5, 1978, available at <www.unog.ch/frames/disarm/distreat/environ.pdf>, p. 2.
8 — Col. Tamzy J. House, Lt. Col. James B. Near, Jr., et al., "Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025," in "Air Force 2025," Air University, Maxwell Air Force Base, Alabama, 1996, p. 7 , <www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume3/chap15/vol3ch15.pdf>.
9 — Ibid., p. vi.
10 — Ibid., p. 27.
11 — Ibid., p. 6.


David E. Brown is an editor and artist living in Brooklyn. He is the author of Inventing Modern America: From the Microwave to the Mouse (MIT Press, forthcoming) and a co-founder of Place magazine.

[halva]

Glass Particles in the Sky Studied As 'Global Warming' Fix

http://www.cnsnews.com:80/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200804/CUL20080410a.html

[halva]

The sky is made of glass
And someone's looking through it
He's laughing all the time
As if to say: "I knew it".
The world is upside down again,
Offside, inside out again,
That's the crazy, noisy roundabout we live in.

(The Allusions: Roundabout)

[cpellatt]

Hello,
My name is Carole Pellatt.
Four weeks ago someone named Seigmund posted a criticism of one of my photos essays that appeared on my website www.iseelines.com and then commented, "get a better camera"., like it should have been obvious that this was an aircraft with markings.

I feel I need to set the record straight. Neither of the photos he posted was mine. And neither appear on my website. If you click on the one link he gives you, it does not lead to the airplane picture he shows with a clearly painted tail and stomach.Some of which I have photographed quite clearly myself.

And then this talk of "her black helicopters". Black helicopters is a term I have never used in my life, let alone on my website. The helicopter photo he shows is not one I have ever taken, and the photo he refers to in my photo essay is clearly a Blackhawk siloutted by the sun. I know these machines well, I live next door to where they train and down the street from where they manufacture them. The quote underneath my helicopter picture is part of a poem I wrote and the line underneath the photo refers to "politics of hate".

It upsets me that this person felt at liberty to classify me as a "black helicopter" conspirator when there was NOTHING in my essay or on my website to imply that I believed in, or thought I was photographing a "black helicopter". I know the equipment of the military establishment quite well, from the historical to the high-tech.

So please, if you're going to try to de-bunk someone, use their words or photos as evidence, don't create your own and give people the impression that this is what's on my website and this is what I'm claiming.

I have no political agenda, I affiliate with no group, I don't forward hundreds of "chemtrail" emails to people, and I do my own research, and encourage others to do the same.

If anyone thinks aerosol spraying is a conspiracy theory like "black helicopters", they know nothing about military technology, and the need for plasma antennas, radar jammers, ionospheric heaters, weather modification, and cloaking devices.

All you have to do is go to official military sites, science sites like NASA, NOAA, NWS etc to see that all types of aerosol programs and experiments have been underway for many years.

No conspiracy theory, no "black" op, just the military, many years ahead of us technologically.

Let's please stop arguing about this, and please LEAVE ME OUT OF IT next time.
truly,
carole pellatt www.iseelines.com

[jayreynolds]

Hello,
My name is Carole Pellatt.
I know the equipment of the military establishment quite well, from the historical to the high-tech.

All you have to do is go to official military sites, science sites like NASA, NOAA, NWS etc to see that all types of aerosol programs and experiments have been underway for many years.

No conspiracy theory, no "black" op, just the military, many years ahead of us technologically.

carole pellatt www.iseelines.com
Dear Carole,
Please answer the following questions as specifically as possible.
No wishy-washy-squishy-squashy answers.

1.Do you have a background in a technical field? If so, what is it? If not, whom do you consider to have such a background who would state the case for "chemtrails" being a case of "spraying"? If no one with such a background exists after many years of interest(enough time for a PhD degree to be earned) why not?

2.Which specific resource do you depend upon for accurate, sound scientific informaton about "chemtrails"? If none can be relied upon, why not?

3.Several meetings were held this past year which were unparalleled opportunities for you to present papers or exhibits to distinguished scientists in fields relevant to "aerosol research" and "aviation emissions". I have examined the proceedings and found no evidence that such a presentation was made. Did you, or any other"chemtrail" interest person present at these conferences? If not, why not?

4. What is your personal definition of 'chemtrails"?

5. What are ordinary contrails, how are they formed, and what determines whether they persist, or not?

6. In what way are alleged "chemtrails" different from ordinary contrails?

7.What is the best scientific proof available that "chemtrails" are anything other than ordinary contrails?

8.Could you please direct our attention to a photo of an
archetypical "chemtrail", one which you would attribute to "geoengineering"?

9. You cite William Thomas in your website's case for "chemtrails". William Thomas has stated the following: "the formation of condensation trails requires temperatures lower than about minus 76 F". Is that statement correct, and if not, do you personally consider Thomas an accurate source of information?

10. What is your claim about the purpose of "chemtrails, what are they for?

11. When did the chemtrails hoax start, who was behind it, and how did the idea that barium is involved get started?

[Jeff Reynolds]

So cousin Jay, you have no problem with Siegmund making up shit about Ms. Pellatt?

And I doubt she wants anything to do with you. You're a sad, pitiful internet troll posting on an insignificant freeper board.

p.s. Cousin, tell them to stop creating fake clouds at 20,000 feet. That's just a bit too low. One of these days something like that is gonna expose your hoax script.

p.p.s. There is a nutjob with a similar name to Ms. Pellatt. It is Carolyn Suzanne Palit. Here is an example of her bullshit.

http://www.bariumblues.com/remote%20EM%20mind%20control%20torture.htm

Either it is a coincidence their names are similar, or I believe that Palit was created to mirror the sincere work being done by Carole Pellatt.
___________________________________
Chemtrails are real. Chemtrail forums are not.
http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org

[halva]

Hello,
My name is Carole Pellatt.
Four weeks ago someone named Seigmund posted a criticism of one of my photos essays that appeared on my website www.iseelines.com and then commented, "get a better camera"., like it should have been obvious that this was an aircraft with markings.

I feel I need to set the record straight. Neither of the photos he posted was mine. And neither appear on my website. If you click on the one link he gives you, it does not lead to the airplane picture he shows with a clearly painted tail and stomach.Some of which I have photographed quite clearly myself.

And then this talk of "her black helicopters". Black helicopters is a term I have never used in my life, let alone on my website. The helicopter photo he shows is not one I have ever taken, and the photo he refers to in my photo essay is clearly a Blackhawk siloutted by the sun. I know these machines well, I live next door to where they train and down the street from where they manufacture them. The quote underneath my helicopter picture is part of a poem I wrote and the line underneath the photo refers to "politics of hate".

It upsets me that this person felt at liberty to classify me as a "black helicopter" conspirator when there was NOTHING in my essay or on my website to imply that I believed in, or thought I was photographing a "black helicopter". I know the equipment of the military establishment quite well, from the historical to the high-tech.

So please, if you're going to try to de-bunk someone, use their words or photos as evidence, don't create your own and give people the impression that this is what's on my website and this is what I'm claiming.

I have no political agenda, I affiliate with no group, I don't forward hundreds of "chemtrail" emails to people, and I do my own research, and encourage others to do the same.

If anyone thinks aerosol spraying is a conspiracy theory like "black helicopters", they know nothing about military technology, and the need for plasma antennas, radar jammers, ionospheric heaters, weather modification, and cloaking devices.

All you have to do is go to official military sites, science sites like NASA, NOAA, NWS etc to see that all types of aerosol programs and experiments have been underway for many years.

No conspiracy theory, no "black" op, just the military, many years ahead of us technologically.

Let's please stop arguing about this, and please LEAVE ME OUT OF IT next time.
truly,
carole pellatt www.iseelines.com

Do you have anything to say to Carole Pellatt, Footsoldier??

[jayreynolds]

So cousin Jay, you have no problem with Siegmund making up shit about Ms. Pellatt?
I see no claim by Seigmund that the picture he posted is one of hers.

His point was obvious to me. Pallit(and yourself as well) needs to get
photos with sufficient resolution to identify the planes they claim are "spraying".

"I see lines", therefore they must be military jets can never amount to real evidence.

You have already admitted that the chemtrails hoax falls apart once ordinary commercial flights are identified as making the same sort of contrails your people claim are "spraying".

High resolution images such as the one Siegmund posted are possible, if you people want to test your claims against facts.

However, you are loathe to do so because of the emotional investment you have made.

It;s really quite simple, and one of the chief reasons the hoax has always failed.

Lack of proof.

[halva]

Jeff Reynolds you want this fellow, with his five (six, seven, eight?) year old prefabricated questions here among us, so that you will have SOMEONE to talk to.

I retract the offer I made to you to integrate you into a discussion that may be going somewhere. You have made your bed, and you can lie in it. I await with interest to see what is going to happen on the other front you chose to open with Lou Aubuchont.

[Jeff Reynolds]

I see no claim by Seigmund that the picture he posted is one of hers.

His point was obvious to me. Pallit(and yourself as well) needs to get
photos with sufficient resolution to identify the planes they claim are "spraying".

"I see lines", therefore they must be military jets can never amount to real evidence.

You don't debate fair, so don't expect much interaction from me. I just took another look at Siegmund's posts, and he made it seem those were Carole's pictures. The reader can easily decide this one. They can see how you put words in our mouths. They can see through your troll linguistic science.




You have already admitted that the chemtrails hoax falls apart once ordinary commercial flights are identified as making the same sort of contrails your people claim are "spraying".


I think that's true. If all aircraft are generating the "chemjunk," then yes, chemtrails are contrails and have more to do with atmospheric realities than anything deliberate in nature. Chemtrails and contrails can look the same at first. It's all about what they turn into, not usually how they first appear. There is simply no proof that commercial aircraft create chemtrails.





High resolution images such as the one Siegmund posted are possible, if you people want to test your claims against facts.

However, you are loathe to do so because of the emotional investment you have made.

It;s really quite simple, and one of the chief reasons the hoax has always failed.

Lack of proof.


This lame script involving yourself, Halvar, and the rest has been exposed. You have all been my appendages in a reverse-trolling operation. You guys are no different than a Tom Flocco. Jump the Shark- we know that phrase. Maybe you guys have jumped the Flocco.


Frankensteinian Atmospheric Shenanigans (http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/frankensteinian-atmospheric-shenanigans-f1.html)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GScDvyLFXlM


These are close ups of non commercial jets leaving thick white permanent trails across Cheshire, England June 5th-8th 2006.

These trails were on the warmest driest days....

Airliners at any altitude in the same skies leave no trails.

You decide.













None of you insidious script members decides what the reader concludes. They are also becoming increasingly net savvy. They are figuring out ways to recognize your script.

Chemtrails Are Not Kooky! (http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/chemtrails-are-not-kooky-f3.html)

[cpellatt]

Hello,
I don't owe you any more of my time. Argue over people and semantics all you want, I'm out. If you want info, go to my website www.iseelines.com and if you disagree with me, be a human about it and write to me without hostility. I don't claim to have any more answers or information than anyone else investigating this upsetting situation. So, if you don't like the info on my website, simply don't go to it.
truly,
carole

[cpellatt]

ps. If you were doing legitimate research with the right attitude you NEVER would have mentioned me and this "Palit" person, who I don't know and who's website I've never been to, unless your purpose is misinformation. Just because a person has a barely similar name to me is your reason for including the both of us (who have COMPLETELY different websites) in your diatribe?

See ya.
carole

[jayreynolds]

Hello,
I don't owe you any more of my time. Argue over people and semantics all you want, I'm out. If you want info, go to my website www.iseelines.com and if you disagree with me, be a human about it and write to me without hostility. I don't claim to have any more answers or information than anyone else investigating this upsetting situation. So, if you don't like the info on my website, simply don't go to it.
truly,
carole

Carole,
Were my basic questions too hard to even try and respond to?

Remember, if you can't even answer basic questions about a subject you have devoted a whole website to, where are you, really?

Nowhere, evidently.

Bye!

[cpellatt]

OOOOXXXXXX

[halva]

ps. If you were doing legitimate research with the right attitude you NEVER would have mentioned me and this "Palit" person, who I don't know and who's website I've never been to, unless your purpose is misinformation. Just because a person has a barely similar name to me is your reason for including the both of us (who have COMPLETELY different websites) in your diatribe?

See ya.
carole

This is just one more indication of Jeffy's unfailing ability to turn every new development into a disaster for himself. In the last twenty-four hours he has acquired two new enemies, and all for the sake of ingratiating himself with someone who couldn't give a shit for him anyway.

Names evidently have a great significance for Jeff Reynolds/ It is why he uses so many of them himself, and claims to be another person's "cousin" so that he can steal that person's name.

Likewise he chooses to alienate new acquaintance Carole Pellatt in order to make some point (he himself could not say what it is) in relation to someone who has a vaguely similar name to hers.

You are certainly scraping the bottom of the barrel, Jay Reynolds, if you hope to make use of this incurable imbecile.

[halva]

OOOOXXXXXX

Carole Pellatt, I sent you a copy of the paper I will be delivering next month in France. Do you agree or disagree with it?

[Jeff Reynolds]

You chumps are fools. You are like Scott McClelland or any other shills who knew they were working a losing cause. Chemtrails will be exposed and stopped despite you numbnuts.

Carole didn't know I was Jeff Reynolds or maybe she got confused about my cousin and myself having similar names. She has just left an amazing post at a real chemtrail forum about how her story was carved up by The Idaho Observer and Educate-Yourself.

Wow. You fakes have control of an insignificant board. You broke the Ton Flocco meter.

http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/aerosol-report-t53-90.html#1539


Hi Socrates,
You've brought an an interesting discussion up by defining that there are those that believe this spraying is the military, and those that believe it's the climate scientists, or geo engineers etc.
I have to say, I never really thought of slicing it that deliberately. I will think on it. I always quote the military and military reports, requisitions, budgets etc. They have shown me that based on the equipment they request, the experiments and posturing that they define, and proudly display in their reports, that they are kissing cousins to the scientists. I guess I have always assumed that the climate scientists can't work out there on earth or in space without the tacit collusion of the military. And I always figured it was easier to get the billions they need through military budget requisitions as opposed to a scientific budget allotment. So that is why I always point towards the military. I figure they want to control every new effective technology for their own purposes in the long run. But I will think on the repercussions of not being more specific when I allude to the true source, and it's not a question I necessarily have an answer to.

As far as who to trust, this is a completely new domain for me. I'm a musician, I do my thing with sincerity and I walk away and that's it, I don't worry and people are generally kind. But I was completely unprepared when I started my "iseelines" website, that people would take the time to screw things up purposely.

I lost my innocence when I wrote a long, backbreakingly researched article called "Connections,Yes We Are Being Sprayed". It was written for all the personal encounters I had with people who couldn't perceive the sky spraying as unusual looking because they were so strongly indoctrinated to believe that the government would never allow any harm to come to it's citizens. It deals with the history of the government allowing experimentation on civilian populations in this country. I just wanted to get people out of their comfort zones and challenge their perceptual skills. It was picked up by the Idaho Observer who commenced editing it until it contained phrases with meanings that horrified me. I was very careful and deliberate in choosing every word and when I read the article, the meaning had been changed, a lot of important info was cut, and they finished my sentences to slant things in a very hostile manner, which is not my style. So now, that article has been cut and pasted from the observer and placed everywhere on the internet. Even on "Educate Yourself" they have the incorrect version. SO I have had to chase people down who post this article and ask them to use the original. If anyone would like to read the original, you can find it on my website www.iseelines.com

So the other question is, how much time of my life do I have to spend now chasing after misinformants. It would be nice to let it all go, but then I read something like that guy posting his photos and claiming they are from my site and I have to say something. It seems really hard to stay focused on just getting my photos, or information out. Time is limited and I'd sooner spend it researching than wondering who to trust. But I accept now, that is part and parcel of speaking up.
Thanks again for bringing up a good point about the differentiation between the military and climate scientists. As I said, I will definitely think on that one.
truly,
carole

Siegmund got exposed. You all did. The readers can see the truth.

[halva]

Congratulations if you have managed to achieve a working relationship with Carole Pellatt. Sober up then, and let there be no more disasters like the Lou Aubuchont story.

[halva]

But doubtless there will be.

[jayreynolds]

You chumps are fools. .


I lost my innocence when I wrote a long, backbreakingly researched article called "Connections,Yes We Are Being Sprayed".

Carole's article is a typically feminine emotion-based essay which purports to "make connections".

I've seen this sort of thinking displayed by many chemmies, especially the more 'artistic' types.

It's one reason females outnumber males within the cadre of 'true believers' by a large margin.

Usually, the artist makes 'connections' in much the same way a 'conspiracy theorist' usually does, with reliance on emotional appeal rather than fact and logic.

Typically, one of their most frequent logical failings is called the Fallacy of Omission.

Essentially, illogic and emotion trumps fact and logic with these people, and they conveniently omit information which contradicts their emotionally held belief.

Example?

Ok, take Pellat's description of Bacillus Subtilis, which was used in experiments to test our nation's vulnerability to biological warfare:

Bacilluss Subtilis is a sporulating bacterium that lives primarily in the soil and associated
water sources. Bacilluss Subtilis is commonly used as a pesticide. According to the EPA, “It
is not a frank human pathogen, but has on several occasions been isolated from human
infections. Infections attributed to B. subtilis include bacteremia, endocarditis,
pneumonia, and septicemia. However, these infections were found in patients in
compromised immune states.” B. subtilis has also been implicated in several cases of food
poisoning. As for the application guidelines when used as a pesticide, the EPA requires
“use of personal protective equipment (long-sleeved shirt and long pants, gloves, shoes
plus socks, dust/mist filtering respirator) to mitigate the risk of dermal sensitivity and
possible allergic reactions.” As for re-entry after application, they further state, “Workers
Protection Standard requires a minimum of 4 hours before reentering a treated field.”
Bacilluss Subtilis was chosen by the military for this experiment because this microbe
reacts similarly to Anthrax


Sounds icky, Carole.

Look at the loaded words she uses:
pesticide, pathogen, infections, bacteremia, endocarditis,pneumonia, septicemea, food poisonng,dermal sensitivity, allergic reactions,"reacts similarly to anthrax".

However, Carole, who describes her paper as backbreakingly researched (oh, can't you just feel her pain!) somehow omits the fact that bacillus subtilis brings us the Japanese HEALTH FOOD 'NATTO', eaten by millions as a breakfast food!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natto

So, even a cursory examination of Pellat's work immmediately shows how loose she plays with the facts.
If she were willing(doubtful), I could show her many more examples of how she is long on emotion, yet short on fact in her essay.

The bottom line is that she is just another in a long line of chemmies who can always succeed in inciting emotion, yet will always fail when it comes down to fact, because the facts just don't agree with their belief.

[jayreynolds]

BTW, Carole, your essay does actually succeed in arousing even myself to an emotional response.

My response is best decsribed by the word pathos.

Not exactly what you intended, however, yet nevertheless true.

Look it up.

Bye!

[halva]

This video by Carole Pellatt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cDIU7oSN-A

does pack a powerful punch, and it can be used for purposes other than providing entertainment for sadists.

[halva]

You chumps are fools.




Originally Posted by Jeff Reynolds
You fools are chumps.


.

[Jeff Reynolds]

From Arkansas:

Under the provisions of the Federal Aviation Act of 1958 all aircraft flying in the US are required to have ID markings.

Here are a couple of shots of Chem Trail planes and one of those black helicopters we hear about. These pictures come from this photo essay by Carole Pellatt:

http://homepage.mac.com/carolepellatt/Feb7/PhotoAlbum278.html



Ok, I think I have figured this out. I made a post on chemtrails in Arizona on Feb. 10th linking to one of Carole's photo essays.

People need to scroll down for the post.

http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/aerosol-report-t53-60.html


The above post by Halvar was made on Feb. 22nd. He mentioned id markings, then he was the one who brought Carole into the script, mentioning "black helicopters" and "chemtrail planes."

Then Siegmund, who denies being "Ed Snell/Yaak," showed up to further the convolution and distortion of Carole's work by responding to Halvar's post.

Thanks to Halvar and "Siegmund" for providing us with further proof that this forum, as well as Chemtrail Central and others, have been scripted the whole time.

The creepy woodtick has been busted again for being part of the psy-ops making chemtrails look kooky.
___________________________________
Chemtrails are real. Chemtrail forums are not.
http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org

[halva]

Would you like to come and expose me to my real-world associates, Jeff Reynolds, at the HELADA forum???

I repeat my invitation.

[halva]

I had thought that you wanted to be friends with Carole Pellatt. You must have blown it with her already.

[foot_soldier]

April 24, 2008
Climate quick fix could destroy ozone layer
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/1953

SYDNEY: A plan to inject sulphate aerosols into the stratosphere, as a quick fix to counteract global warming, may drastically increase Arctic ozone depletion and slow the recovery of the Antarctic ozone hole, researchers warn.

A number of 'geoengineering' schemes have been proposed in recent years as possible ways for us to deflect the Sun's heat or reduce the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

Unfeasible and costly

Examples include positioning giant mirrors in orbit around the Earth in order to deflect sunlight, seeding clouds with seawater to increase their whiteness and therefore reflectivity, and 'ocean fertilisation', whereby algal blooms are stimulated to encourage the capture of CO2 from the atmosphere.

None of these plans have been proven on a large scale, and most are infeasible due to high costs or potentially dangerous side effects.

One scheme proposes that the sulphate aerosols could be used to whiten clouds and cool the planet (See, Fake volcanoes could combat global warming, Cosmos Online). The idea is based around a cooling effect detected after the 1991 eruption of Mt. Pinatubo, a Filipino volcano that pumped sulphates into the atmosphere.

To probe the idea further, researchers in Germany and the U.S., led by Simone Tilmes at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado, analysed atmospheric data following the eruption. But what they found suggested that the sulphates would also react with chlorine in the cold conditions of the Arctic and Antarctic to deplete atmospheric ozone.

Her team publishs their results today in the U.S. journal Science.

According to Tilmes, pumping sulphate aerosols into the upper atmosphere would thin the ozone layer, which protects us from the Sun's dangerous ultraviolet (UV) rays. This is because sulphates catalyse the creation of reactive chlorine compounds in the stratosphere, similar to the chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) that were phased out starting with the Montreal Protocol in 1989.

Dangerous and unintended effects

Up to half of the ozone layer could be destroyed, the researchers said, which would particularly impact the northern hemisphere. The recovery of the existing ozone hole over the Antarctic continent (which is currently predicted to heal over by the mid-21st century) could be delayed by a further 30 to 70 years.

"Our study shows that trying to artificially cool off the planet by global geoengineering solutions might have dangerous side effects on our society and all life on earth," Tilmes told Cosmos Online. "Geoengineering schemes that cool the climate, only cure the symptoms but do not heal the real problem, which is the large amount of climate gases in the atmosphere that need to be reduced."

Barry Brook, director of the Research Institute for Climate Change and Sustainability at the University of Adelaide in South Australia, said that the sulphate aerosol scheme might also lead to acid rain and droughts.

"[This study] points out another mechanism by which these geoengineering schemes can go wrong," said Brook, who was not one of the study's authors. "There is always a chance of unintended side effects."

See also:

April 24, 2008
Global warming fix could damage ozone layer
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2008/04/24/sciatmos124.xml

April 24, 2008
Injecting sulfate particles into stratosphere could have drastic impact on Earth's ozone layer
Much-discussed climate change mitigation strategy may do more harm than good
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-04/nsf-isp042408.php

A much-discussed idea to offset global warming by injecting sulfate particles into the stratosphere would have a drastic impact on Earth's protective ozone layer, new research concludes.

The study, led by Simone Tilmes of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) in Boulder, Colo., warns that such an approach would delay the recovery of the Antarctic ozone hole by decades and cause significant ozone loss over the Arctic.

The study results are published today in the journal Science Express. The research was funded by the National Science Foundation (NSF), NCAR's principal sponsor, as well as by NASA and other agencies.

"Our research indicates that trying to artificially cool off the planet may be a perilous endeavor," Tilmes says. "While climate change is a major threat, this solution could create severe problems for society."

"The challenges of global warming mitigation are extremely complex," said Cliff Jacobs, program director in NSF's Division of Atmospheric Sciences. "Continued investment in basic research will allow the most cost-effective solutions--and those of the most benefit to society--to be found."

Climate scientists, concerned that society is not taking sufficient action to prevent significant changes in climate, have studied various "geoengineering" proposals to cool the planet and mitigate the most severe impacts of global warming..... (continued)

[halva]

Footsoldier, I received an encouraging response from Mike Castle to the paper I have written for presentation in France next month.

It seems the so-called fanatics and extremists can have a better appreciation than the "moderates" for "realpolitik" approaches to this subject.

[halva]

Carole didn't know I was Jeff Reynolds or maybe she got confused about my cousin and myself having similar names. She has just left an amazing post at a real chemtrail forum about how her story was carved up by The Idaho Observer and Educate-Yourself.


I also have some e-mails from Carole Pellatt from the last few days but i'm not going to put them up here, though she has given me the OK to publish them.

Socrates is evidently only interested in the momentary sensation he can create by showing that there are still people talking to him and writing to him.

He will have to find still more pseudonyms, I think, if he wants to be able to show in future even ONE item of correspondence from people in our milieu.

By the way I did not say anything at all about him now to Carole Pellatt, despite the fact that everything he writes about me making postings (in Arizona??) with references to black helicopters and then "bringing Carole into a script" are total fabrications, apart from being substantially meaningless because not making any point that can even be understood, much less refuted.

.

[halva]

AEROSOL ANOMALIES"
Posted on Behalf of the Submitters
by
Clifford E Carnicom
Apr 17 2008

During the past month, two individuals have submitted a series of photographs to me that depict unusual airborne forms. To my knowledge, neither of these individuals is in contact with the other. The photographs are stated to be original. In both cases, the photos shown here are reported to have taken place in the midst of heavy aerosol operations over the respective geographic regions.

The photos in both cases show unusual ring-shaped or disc-like objects. The photos in one case are quite clear and remarkable. The fact that the second set was even captured is also fortunate. A statement from the photographer in each case will follow the images that have been submitted. These photographs raise several questions about at least some aspects of the aerosol operations and they appear to defy any conventional perception of aircraft. The accompanying "emission trail" with the ring like structure of the first set is especially curious. My appreciation is extended to both of the individuals that have offered their images to the public in the quest to further understand the nature of the aerosol operations.

http://www.carnicom.com/anomalies1.htm

Statement by the observer:
As discussed please find attached the two photos of the unidentified flying disc I captured. The first one attached is much clearer and was taken on Sunday March 23, 2008. It was observed out of peripheral vision, and barely captured it although it was on a straight horizontal flight path but fast, faster than the aircrafts in the airspace at the time precise time!!! without the UV filtering sunglasses I normally wear but didn't that day. It was smack dab in the middle of the airspace precisely during the time of heavy activity via the daily observed same aviation assault team [ assault team described here: http://dayspringgatheringscircle.org/blog/?p=881] The second photo was taken TODAY [Apr 14 2008 Ed. Note-CEC], is the same unidentified flying disc, but today's story is quite different. I was wearing my UV filtering sunglasses and caught the beginning erratic activity out of the peripheral vision once again as we were filming all the heavy activity of the daily observed same aviation assault time and out of the corner of my eye I caught an erratic movement, then in a split second going straight VERTICAL and FAST, as soon as I dropped my UV filtering Sunglasses it vanished right were it was as I had my glasses on, flipped my glasses back on and it caught in the same airspace region precisely where I couldn't see it seconds before [ light reflection? light bending?], anyways, this disc did a figure 8, went left and went right, banked left 90 degrees and then shot straight up vertical into the cloud cover ahead. This all happened in split seconds, and with a wing and a prayer I just flicked on auto and took the shot because the disc was rising straight vertical so fast I thought it would be gone before the shutter could capture it. You will notice that the disc on the second photo almost out of the frame, top of the photo, on its vertical straight rise, whereas on the 1st photo, it was on a horizontal flight path, course I didn't think to track it on the first photo, like I was able to track and observe it the second time. This thing looked exactly like it was remote controlled as fast it did a figure 8 then went left ,right and vertical. By the way, the same aircraft were in the same airspace both times, what I call the worker bees. All in all, I have now observed this disc 4 times, and at all times directly in the middle of heavy aerial activity.

[jayreynolds]

AEROSOL ANOMALIES"
Posted on Behalf of the Submitters
by
Clifford E Carnicom
Apr 17 2008

During the past month, two individuals have submitted a series of photographs to me that depict unusual airborne forms. To my knowledge, neither of these individuals is in contact with the other. The photographs are stated to be original. In both cases, the photos shown here are reported to have taken place in the midst of heavy aerosol operations over the respective geographic regions.

The photos in both cases show unusual ring-shaped or disc-like objects. The photos in one case are quite clear and remarkable. The fact that the second set was even captured is also fortunate. A statement from the photographer in each case will follow the images that have been submitted. These photographs raise several questions about at least some aspects of the aerosol operations and they appear to defy any conventional perception of aircraft. The accompanying "emission trail" with the ring like structure of the first set is especially curious. My appreciation is extended to both of the individuals that have offered their images to the public in the quest to further understand the nature of the aerosol operations.

http://www.carnicom.com/anomalies1.htm

Statement by the observer:
As discussed please find attached the two photos of the unidentified flying disc I captured. The first one attached is much clearer and was taken on Sunday March 23, 2008. It was observed out of peripheral vision, and barely captured it although it was on a straight horizontal flight path but fast, faster than the aircrafts in the airspace at the time precise time!!! without the UV filtering sunglasses I normally wear but didn't that day. It was smack dab in the middle of the airspace precisely during the time of heavy activity via the daily observed same aviation assault team [ assault team described here: http://dayspringgatheringscircle.org/blog/?p=881] The second photo was taken TODAY [Apr 14 2008 Ed. Note-CEC], is the same unidentified flying disc, but today's story is quite different. I was wearing my UV filtering sunglasses and caught the beginning erratic activity out of the peripheral vision once again as we were filming all the heavy activity of the daily observed same aviation assault time and out of the corner of my eye I caught an erratic movement, then in a split second going straight VERTICAL and FAST, as soon as I dropped my UV filtering Sunglasses it vanished right were it was as I had my glasses on, flipped my glasses back on and it caught in the same airspace region precisely where I couldn't see it seconds before [ light reflection? light bending?], anyways, this disc did a figure 8, went left and went right, banked left 90 degrees and then shot straight up vertical into the cloud cover ahead. This all happened in split seconds, and with a wing and a prayer I just flicked on auto and took the shot because the disc was rising straight vertical so fast I thought it would be gone before the shutter could capture it. You will notice that the disc on the second photo almost out of the frame, top of the photo, on its vertical straight rise, whereas on the 1st photo, it was on a horizontal flight path, course I didn't think to track it on the first photo, like I was able to track and observe it the second time. This thing looked exactly like it was remote controlled as fast it did a figure 8 then went left ,right and vertical. By the way, the same aircraft were in the same airspace both times, what I call the worker bees. All in all, I have now observed this disc 4 times, and at all times directly in the middle of heavy aerial activity.

This guy has a cheap digital camera that is showing many of the standard "ORB" artifacts.
"Orbs" were a big deal a few years ago when digital photography was new to most people.
It died down once the images were identified as insects moving near the lens, dust inside the camera, Moire patterns, Newton's rings, refractions, etc.

Don't believe me, however. Seek out an expert in photography before jumping through to conclusions.

As usual, Clifford Clowneycon has fallen over the edge, and Wayne the lemming jumps right after him!

http://dayspringgatheringscircle.org/blog/?attachment_id=1176

[halva]

Ahhhhhhhh. There's nothing like the comfort of old routines. Hot cocoa by the fire, dressing gown, slippers and some Carnicom cookies to munch.

[Lou]

I also have some e-mails from Carole Pellatt from the last few days but i'm not going to put them up here, though she has given me the OK to publish them.

Socrates is evidently only interested in the momentary sensation he can create by showing that there are still people talking to him and writing to him.

He will have to find still more pseudonyms, I think, if he wants to be able to show in future even ONE item of correspondence from people in our milieu.

By the way I did not say anything at all about him now to Carole Pellatt, despite the fact that everything he writes about me making postings (in Arizona??) with references to black helicopters and then "bringing Carole into a script" are total fabrications, apart from being substantially meaningless because not making any point that can even be understood, much less refuted.

.

If she really dose not know him give her time Wayne, though unaware I don't think it will take her very long to figure out that 'Jeffie Boy' is a raving, psychotic, lunatic.

At the first sign of questioning by her of his actions against other Chemmies he will no doubt turn on her as he has with everyone else within the Chemtrail community, he can not cozy up to anyone that's really interested in the Chemtrail issue for very long without BLOWING it BIG TIME with his ANAL, IGNORANT, BULLSHIT.:rolleyes:

[may41970]

Hello Lou.

I have a question. Is your last name Aubuchont? Please, please, please. Just a simple "yes" or "no" without insults, if you can manage it.

peace.

may41970

[halva]

"May41970" asks people if they are using their real name.

[Lou]

"May41970" asks people if they are using their real name.

You mean 'Jeffie Boy' posting as "may41970" asks people if they are using their real name or do you really believe they are separate posters?

I can not answer 'Jeffie Boy' or his SOCK PUPPET "may41970" directly as I've been asked to stay away from posting in response to the IDIOTS for legal reasons but if I could respond to this tired old BULLSHIT that 'Jeffie Boy' keeps on bringing up, I would just use one of my old post which already addressed the question.

"Don't you mean LT. Aubuchont you sorry piece of DOGSHIT, 'Jeffie Boy' get your stinking SOCK PUPPET away from me, I'm not talking to a FUCKING CARTOON CHARACTER.":mad::rolleyes:
_______________

For the Last time you CREEPY LITTLE BASTARD, my name is Louis Aubuchont, NOT Will Thomas, NOT S.T. Brendt, Not Larry, what's your REAL name ASSHOLE?

Got any more FUCKING demands you WORTHLESS PRICK? :rolleyes:

[TOTO]

Who is CAROLE ?
My reason for asking is that on a really shithole forum I was reading yesterday there is a new poster there and the tyrant that runs that forum SCRUBBED her posts that talked about her having out of body experiences . Gone Vanishes SCRUBBED
The very same thing this tyrant crys about other forums doing !!!
Maybe his whole stick about free speach is just a come on and then whamo his MOSSAD Masters tell him they will cut his sheckles if he lets someone talk about whatever they want to talk about.
Then after SCRUBBINGthat post out of ITS forum he is now talking dwn to this new poster who has Aspergers like they are some kind of a fucking moron.
I am just wondering if this could be this Carole person or maybe just a poor soul that is lonley or really stupid to let this tryrant talk down to thm and to SCRUB what they wrote
Yeah a real believer in FREE SPEACH IT is LMAO

[halva]

There is a Carole Pellatt who is a Montreal-born musician
http://www.carolepellatt.com/

She is also a chemtrails activist, who has been interviewed by New York Skywatch
http://newyorkskywatch.com/2007/10/21/skywatch-radio-october-21-2007/

And has numerous other articles, videos and photos on chemtrails on the web.

She does indeed also talk about "out of body experiences".

There is also a Carolyn Williams Palit who has published in Rense.
http://www.rense.com/general79/chem.htm

And believes that she is being slowly killed by electromagnetic weapons
http://www.indymedia.org/pt/2005/10/825753.shtml

and has her own website
http://www.exoticwarfare.com/

The one who came to us here is Carole Pellatt.

[halva]

Carole Pellatt does not seem to be a poor lonely person but quite a successful professional musician.

Toto don't forget that when you evoke the ideal of freedom of speech you are giving the Reynoldses and other pests the cover they need for their activity. Perhaps it's time to shut up about freedom of speech and use other arguments to advance our case.

[HippieDude]

April 24, 2008
Climate quick fix could destroy ozone layer

This is the of the articles I skimmed in print JR.

I've been an armchiar analyst of energy and environmental issues, from technolgy to policy and planning for 30 years, since I realized Einstein was a pacifist yet laid the groundwork for the end of humanity through warfare.

There are multiple projects. Funny how research follows where the money takes it. If we were suffering form global cooling, the petroleum industry wouldn't care because then they would argue that releasing more CO2 into the air would warm the planet.

But the petroleum industry actually has more to gain with that argument for global warming for global cooling because the equipment already on the street does a great job of burning natural gas and even diesel at pretty good efficiencies and is "distrubuted" allowing cogeneration on site.

The coal industry wouldn't have any money in "coal gassification" if it were not for the promise to maintain cheap energy combined with "carbon sequestration".

The biggest crutch to running coal plants is the ash and suit and all the materials handling involved.

Other technolgies with liquid and gas fuels might have to worry about condensation and stack temperatures, but not too much about the waste products.

So it makes complete sense that they push one thing to get government funding for the other.

Early on, I researched coal fired power plants for a few months. The USSR was collapsing and we had a big contract backed by the Federal Government to sell coal to some country in Eastern Europe. The project was absolutely nothing but politics. Maybe that is why everyone is still pusing coal, the government had a contract to buy it all. I got away from that project as fast as possible. Absolutely no use at all.

Just going back a few posts, it is legal for certain planes to have markings that are only visible to military - at least that is what I recall.

They still have to run the lights (though diferent rules apply than commercial) while in US airspace. I forget which is port or starboard in terms of the red-green light. For fast flying aircraft, I would think they still use a "direct ahead" visual port-starboard indicator so that any oncoming pilot would react the same way to avoid an accident.

If research followed common sense, I would have been a research scientist in energy and had enough money to retire by now, or at least put my kids through college and paint my house, and maybe even go on vacation once in a while... I definitely got sick of the ups and downs in funding.

Tell peoople they'll make money, and they'll give you anything. Tell them that it is going it cost something to everyone else, and they don't want to boradcast anything you say.

[TOTO]

Carol Pellatt does not seem to be a poor lonely person but quite a successful professional musician.

Toto don't forget that when you evoke the ideal of freedom of speech you are giving the Reynoldses and other pests the cover they need for their activity. Perhaps it's time to shut up about freedom of speech and use other arguments to advance our case.

THANKS FOR THE INFO HALVA ON THE LADY IN QUESTION.
I DONT LIKE YOUR WORDS OF "SHUT UP " BUT I UNDERSTAND THEY ARE COMING FROM NOT WANTING CERTAIN POSTERS BACK AGAIN.

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT HALVA WHENEVER IT GETS BANNED FROM ANOTHER FORUM OR IT IS BORED IT WILL ALWAYS COME BACK SO IT REALLY DOESNT MATTER AND IT STILL GETS AWAY WITH BREAKING THE SO CALLED RULES HERE SO I REALLY SEE NO REASON THAT I SHOULD SHUT UP ABOUT IT .
IT IS A BLOOD SUCKING VAMPIRE AND ITS THIRST IS NEVER ENDING .

BUT HEY THANKS FOR THE INFO ON THAT LADY.

[halva]

Footsoldier, I received an encouraging response from Mike Castle to the paper I have written for presentation in France next month.

It seems the so-called fanatics and extremists can have a better appreciation than the "moderates" for "realpolitik" approaches to this subject.

Similarly from Brian Holmes, Carole Pellatt, Andrew Johnson, Elana Freeman and Lou Aubuchont.

[Lou]

*BUMP*

[halva]

Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists article on Geoengineering
http://www.thebulletin.org/files/064002006_0.pdf

[halva]

The California Chemtrail Convergence is Coming to Los Angeles!

Join experts who have researched the aerosol assault of our planet and hundreds of fellow sky watchers at the California Chemtrail Convergence which takes place on Saturday May 17th 2008 at the Immanuel Presbyterian Church located at 3300 Wilshire Blvd. in Los Angeles. Doors open at 4PM.

In an attempt to build networks of support and information, the public is also invited to bring photos and other evidence of chemtrail activity from their communities to share with others.

Special Guest Speakers Include:

Clifford Carnicom – The creator of Carnicom.com and the documentary "Aerosol Crimes."

Dr. Gwen Scott, ND – A Naturopathic Doctor and Former CNN news anchorwoman

For more information, to book interviews or to purchase advance tickets please call 805-653-1588

[jayreynolds]

The California Chemtrail Convergence is Coming to Los Angeles!

to purchase advance tickets please call 805-653-1588

So, $20 bucks to watch Cliffie rinse his mouth with wine and produce "morgellons"?

What a bunch of hooey!

[halva]

Yeah, I don't think I'll go.

[Lou]

So, $20 bucks to watch Cliffie rinse his mouth with wine and produce "morgellons"?

What a bunch of hooey!

Quote: Jay Reynolds / John Boyd Reynolds Jr.
9/29/06

"I predict that within 1 year the CDC will conclude that 'Morgellons' is as non-existent as the NOAA, NASA, USAF and EPA did with "chemtrails". Let's compare notes one year from now."
________________________________________

Yep_Ok 'Jay', we know you think that you know everything but in reality your just flapping your cake hole as usual, we know all we need to know per your IGNORANT prediction above showing "US" the real 'John Boyd Reynolds, Jr.',.........Ha,.........Go play with your ONIONS Mr. Know it all.:rolleyes:

If "Lymes Disease" was still being researched like "MORGELLONS" is, you would no doubt be IGNORANTLY DEBUNKING that also,.....your an IDIOT_End Of Story.:rolleyes:

[halva]

I was agreeing with him in the hope that this would make him happy.

[halva]

I don't like discussions in which he participates. They don't make me feel that I'm learning anything useful.

[Lou]

I was agreeing with him in the hope that this would make him happy.

Yeah_I bet that's what his ex-wife and all of his ex-girlfriends say too.:rolleyes:

I could not help but rub his own stupidity right back in his Narcissistic face. :rolleyes:

[halva]

Discussion with him on the subject of Morgellons is particularly distasteful and I hope it doesn't start again.

[halva]

I am not particularly an admirer of Carnicom, in the sense that I don't think he is helping "chemmies" to find an effective political orientation, but I don't think the man deserves to be ridiculed. He is the type of American that if Jay Reynolds were true to his own expressed political and religious beliefs he should like to see existing.

[Lou]

Discussion with him on the subject of Morgellons is particularly distasteful and I hope it doesn't start again.

Oh, I know Wayne, talk about a CLOSED MIND A-What???:rolleyes:

[halva]

It is macabre.

[Lou]

I think Carnicom tries to cover far to much ground and he spreads himself a bit thin, I don't know if the Chemtrailing is connected in any way to Morgellons but it is odd that they both surfaced in conjunction with each other, first chemtrails then Morgellons, I'll be glad when some real answers come to light on either.

[halva]

From Andrew Johnston

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ld1sg-LLruc

Some planes leave trails, then a thunderstorm starts. Mobitex Camera Time Lapse Footage from Munchen, Germany on 29th May 2003.

There were no visible trails for the first few seconds (32 mins realtime) of the footage.

Then we see 7 planes in approx 24 mins, then the thunderstorm starts and we see NO MORE obvious planes/trails.

What's going on?

Original footage from this page:

http://www.mobotix.com/eng_GB/region/index/eng_GB/?URL=support/demo_cameras

Direct link:

http://www.mobotix.com/eng_GB/content/download/1832/18892/MPEG+Muenchen.mpeg

[Lou]

This is interesting if you have the time, it will no doubt draw the TOXIC REYNOLDS TWINS out of there holes with yet more of there BLATHER but the "Edge Radio Show" is more popular in the UK than there MSM from what I understand.
___________________

From: http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread6702-90.html

stitcherman
Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 266
Location: jaffrey new hampshire Fri May 02, 2008 2:37 pm


Here is an audio giving more possibilities of what chemtrails are all about.
The intreview starts probably 30 minutes in, and lasts 90 minutes.
http://theedgeam.com/edgetvarchives/thursdays/thursday1May2008.htm
"On the the show this week: Edge Correspondent Gina Romano talks to Bill Gallagher about Chemtrails. Bill Gallagher is living in New Mexico, but he has traveled extensively during the last 8 years photographing Chemtrails in their relation to ENMOD (Environmental Modification) and Mind Control in the United States. Bill served four years in the Air Force and was in the Air Force when he first noticed chemtrails in the 1970s. Bill Gallagher has written a book entitled Devilvision: The Worlds New Wireless Grid, which includes "Pertinent History And The First Ever Discussion of Active Auroral Behavior Modification and Surveillance Technology."
There is lots of infomation there.
I will say it is really worth a listen.
"Law enforcment in america today; is the new taxation grid for the new world order" Bill Gallagher
_________________
". . . that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately, by the grace of God." -- Thomas Jefferson's Last Letter, June 24, 1826

[halva]

Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists article on Geoengineering
http://www.thebulletin.org/files/064002006_0.pdf

The author of this article turns out to have attitudes in no way different from those of other relevant scientists. In the end one may get further with scientists who FAVOUR geongineering than one does with this type of "opponent".

[halva]

Bill Gallagher seems to be the kind of activist that Jay Reynolds likes ridiculing and Jeff Reynolds deploring for being "paid" dispensers of distraction and misinformation.

[halva]

The man who gave me 24 hours advance notice of the 2004 South East Asian tsunami says: "Recall I wrote you just before the last great wave? I fear another will come in the next few days....what they're doing with the ELF Beam, moving the entire Pacific Plate Westward. From the Aleutians all the way to Peru..where they got a volcano to explode. If they keep rattling magma underlying the Western half of the World...it will shift Westward....it will open up the Pacific Fire Ring....the wave predicted going eastward..........."

[Lou]

Bill Gallagher seems to be the kind of activist that Jay Reynolds likes ridiculing and Jeff Reynolds deploring for being "paid" dispensers of distraction and misinformation.

Oh, your certainly correct on both counts there, no doubt about it.

I found the interview with 'Gallagher' interesting, that's all.

The piece on Fox News dictating what there investigative reporters can present in there reports was far more compelling than the interview with 'Bill Gallagher' who came off as quite nervous and unsure of his own material, obviously he is just an average person trying to get his point across with regard to his own experiences with Chemtrails.

I never saw "Chemtrails" here in the North East United States until late 1996 or early 1997 so I found his statement that he first observed them back in the 1970's a bit strange but I don't discount it out of hand as some would, it's quite possible that THEY where spraying some areas during the 1970's and testing various materials and aircraft aerosol disbursement methods, they had to test the spraying somewhere before it became so obvious in the late 1990's that it was being done on a larger scale.

'Gallagher' does talk about Chemtrails being part of a sinister plot by NWO types to reduce the world population, that's his opinion and he is welcome to it but it's not something that I ascribe to other than believing that the materials that there spraying are probably not meant to enhance our health in any way.

If the spraying was being done to reduce the world population then whatever metals,chemicals or biological pathogens being dispersed to effect this Global Genocide of the population via the spraying would also it follows affect those involved with the spraying, it dose not make sense, that is why I don't buy into the whole depopulation theory.

The aspects of Chemtrails that I do believe are relevant are weather modification and there use to the military in over the horizon and Sub communications, ground penetrating radar and use as antenna for H.F. direct energy weapons, I'm sure there doing far more than that but that's what I believe the basics are.

Given the military's zeal for building bigger and better more efficient killing machines I know they will exploit any and all possibilities in achieving there goals.

[Saturn]

I think Bill Gallagher has a lot of valuable knowledge and is extremely well-read. I wish I had his knowledge. I remember chemtrails when I was kid in the 70s and have talked with others about his findings and many agree with his perspective. While we all have our own perspectives, I can't fault this guy for coming forward and givng his opinion. He did serve in the U.S. Air Force and was probably well trained in many different areas., including technology and weaponry used by our military, including what is being left behind by planes and commercial airplanes in the sky. As far as him being "paid" for disinformation, I doubt it. If he were getting paid then we could probably say that a NWO practice is being instilled and he obviously is against NWO.

I give him credit for coming forward and sharing his knowledge and his perspective. New World Order is a very wide open topic now a days, so I don't think he is off base with his perception. Conspiracy has always been a part of our world. While we are still free Americans, I am going to enjoy other perspectives.

I salute him. By the way "there" is "their" when referring to Fox News Reporters.

[billder]

Hi everyone its Bill Gallagher here. I am a member at CTC, and have been there for quite some time now, but I do not get by there too much anymore....thanks a lot for listening to the interview, and for the comments. Gina Romano of theedgeam.com is an excellent interviewer and you will hear things in her work you certainly wont hear anywhere else!

I assure you I am not a paid informant or misinformant; you can see my websites starting here www.luxefaire.com and following links. I am and have been a starving artist and unwilling human guinea pig of the new world order for over ten years now, and I do not like it, and I fight it. I have been stalked, mobbed, harassed, poisoned multiple times, anthraxed in Florida in april 2002 while investigating jeb bush there, and nearly died, and much much more!

Here is the book Devilvision that just went live last night:

http://www.luxefaire.com/devilvision/tableofcontents.html

Let me know what you think please, I am not after notoriety or fame and I really dont think there is any money in this kind of reporting anyway -- thats not the point; the point is retaliation against my tormentors and I am hoping to have a hand in their eventual undoing.

I prefer to do books as are on my site www.autodidactics.com if I am trying to make a buck. And I am sitting on a lot of good creative stuff if I live through this part of my life, and there are no guarantees, they have been working on me a long time. I WILL NOT ever commit suicide though, and remember that if it ever becomes an issue. I WILL come back and haunt the people who kill me, if they do to me like they have done to so many others.

Oh yeahhhhhhhhh...

I did make two mistakes that I know of in the interview, ions are not sub atomic particles per se, except for electrons, which can be excited to flow from atom to atom or molecule to molecule, the atoms themselves which are giving or getting the excess or deficit electron charges form pos or neg and THOSE are the ions...not to be confused with quanta/elementary/subatomic particles, although some of the active auroral cnfigs can produce ioonising radiation and THOSE are subatomic particles...ionising radiation is weaponry extraordinaire. The HAARP patent is the key to understanding a lot of this, a full copy is included in my appendix of the Devilvision book.

I also stated in the interview that enron went belly up b4 911, it was the other way around, but they were closely related in time and circumstance, i just wanted to set that record straight.

I have many many pictures of all these operations I speak of, NM has been rather like hell, but it has its perx...I truly have seen things most people would not, could not, believe...the chemming and ENMOD experiments are the least of some of the things I have seen...

many of my pix of chemtrail/active auroral activity and operations are posted at chemtrailcentral.com by me with this user name, or luxefaire, but I think at ctc I am billder, its been awhile though.

In my book I repeatedly make the point that this tech COULD be very beneficial were it not being used by ghouls and madmen and their military/ontel apparat...if it were used for people instead of as a means of behavior modifying law enforcment....give the book a read if you get a chance, and pass around please....the frenetic activity by the internationalists to keep one of their own in power (mccain-clinbama et al) speaks loudly of their need to keep this mind control behavior modification system in place, and covertly. I believe its all too late for them now though.

As to being ridiculed by mainstream media, thats why I have nothing to do with those types, THEY are the paid misinformants, imho, and I have a lot of info to back that up. The net will save us, if anything does, and its because we can overcome the nefarious influences of the bought and paid for perception managers.

Best Wishes and thanks again. Take as many quality pictures of the chemtrails as you can.

B

ps -- I like the heading of this article, and mother nature will defintely be appeased for this irresponsible degradation. the question is this: will humans survive?

[Lou]

I salute him. By the way "there" is "their" when referring to Fox News Reporters.

Oh boy, here we go with the CRITICAL SPELLING FRIGGEN POLICE AGAIN, who is this NUBIE 'Saturn' really,............SOCRATES, MAY41970, JEFFIE BOY,......JEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZ,......GIVE IT A REST, CAN'T YOU MAKE A POST WITHOUT GETTING ON SOMEONE, JUST ONCE????????

What a JERK !:rolleyes:

[halva]

Anyway, if debunkers are laying off so we can at last start attracting a few people who have something to say other than attacking other posters, that is progress.

And Footsoldier is pursuing her line of thought and not bothering anybody and if she can be allowed to do that, that is also progress.

So even if some of the new posters are old posters in disguise, if they assume new identities and new habits along with the new names, I am not going to be asking questions.

[Lou]

Hi everyone its Bill Gallagher here. I am a member at CTC, and have been there for quite some time now, but I do not get by there too much anymore....thanks a lot for listening to the interview, and for the comments. Gina Romano of theedgeam.com is an excellent interviewer and you will hear things in her work you certainly wont hear anywhere else!

I assure you I am not a paid informant or misinformant; you can see my websites starting here www.luxefaire.com and following links. I am and have been a starving artist and unwilling human guinea pig of the new world order for over ten years now, and I do not like it, and I fight it. I have been stalked, mobbed, harassed, poisoned multiple times, anthraxed in Florida in april 2002 while investigating jeb bush there, and nearly died, and much much more!

Here is the book Devilvision that just went live last night:

http://www.luxefaire.com/devilvision/tableofcontents.html

Let me know what you think please, I am not after notoriety or fame and I really dont think there is any money in this kind of reporting anyway -- thats not the point; the point is retaliation against my tormentors and I am hoping to have a hand in their eventual undoing.

I prefer to do books as are on my site www.autodidactics.com if I am trying to make a buck. And I am sitting on a lot of good creative stuff if I live through this part of my life, and there are no guarantees, they have been working on me a long time. I WILL NOT ever commit suicide though, and remember that if it ever becomes an issue. I WILL come back and haunt the people who kill me, if they do to me like they have done to so many others.

Oh yeahhhhhhhhh...

I did make two mistakes that I know of in the interview, ions are not sub atomic particles per se, except for electrons, which can be excited to flow from atom to atom or molecule to molecule, the atoms themselves which are giving or getting the excess or deficit electron charges form pos or neg and THOSE are the ions...not to be confused with quanta/elementary/subatomic particles, although some of the active auroral cnfigs can produce ioonising radiation and THOSE are subatomic particles...ionising radiation is weaponry extraordinaire. The HAARP patent is the key to understanding a lot of this, a full copy is included in my appendix of the Devilvision book.

I also stated in the interview that enron went belly up b4 911, it was the other way around, but they were closely related in time and circumstance, i just wanted to set that record straight.

I have many many pictures of all these operations I speak of, NM has been rather like hell, but it has its perx...I truly have seen things most people would not, could not, believe...the chemming and ENMOD experiments are the least of some of the things I have seen...

many of my pix of chemtrail/active auroral activity and operations are posted at chemtrailcentral.com by me with this user name, or luxefaire, but I think at ctc I am billder, its been awhile though.

In my book I repeatedly make the point that this tech COULD be very beneficial were it not being used by ghouls and madmen and their military/ontel apparat...if it were used for people instead of as a means of behavior modifying law enforcment....give the book a read if you get a chance, and pass around please....the frenetic activity by the internationalists to keep one of their own in power (mccain-clinbama et al) speaks loudly of their need to keep this mind control behavior modification system in place, and covertly. I believe its all too late for them now though.

As to being ridiculed by mainstream media, thats why I have nothing to do with those types, THEY are the paid misinformants, imho, and I have a lot of info to back that up. The net will save us, if anything does, and its because we can overcome the nefarious influences of the bought and paid for perception managers.

Best Wishes and thanks again. Take as many quality pictures of the chemtrails as you can.

B

ps -- I like the heading of this article, and mother nature will defintely be appeased for this irresponsible degradation. the question is this: will humans survive?

Sorry, I would have responded sooner but I got knocked out of DBS, I keep getting an error message that Explorer caused a fault and must shutdown, soon as I close out the error message I loose the whole page, it's strange because DBS is the only site where this happens.

Anyway, 'Bill', thanks for coming to DBS, it's got it's share of DEBUNKERS, TROLLS and TROUBLEMAKERS but I know that you have had to deal with them and that your capable.

I agree with most of what you say but the "Population reduction" thing is a sticking point for me, no matter, we can agree on everything else and it's good to see your voice speaking out on Chemtrails_thank you.

Lou.

[Lou]

Anyway, if debunkers are laying off so we can at last start attracting a few people who have something to say other than attacking other posters, that is progress.

And Footsoldier is pursuing her line of thought and not bothering anybody and if she can be allowed to do that, that is also progress.

So even if some of the new posters are old posters in disguise, if they assume new identities and new habits along with the new names, I am not going to be asking questions.

Watch out for the SPELLING POLICE Wayne. LMFAO !

[Saturn]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am not the "thought police". I believe in free speech and free-thinking. Just an observation. Apologies.

[Lou]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am not the "thought police". I believe in free speech and free-thinking. Just an observation. Apologies.

This is DBS, not your high school English class and your not the teacher correcting your pupils spelling or grammar, in fact doing so just goes to show your own RUDE and SNOBBISH IGNORANCE, we all make spelling and grammar mistakes, even you I bet, so why don't you just go with the flow and cut the ELITIST BULLSHIT_just an observation.:D

[halva]

I accept your apology, but does not free speech include the right to spell however we like?

[Saturn]

Sure you can spell anyway you want.

[Saturn]

This is DBS, not your high school English class and your not the teacher correcting your pupils spelling or grammar, in fact doing so just goes to show your own RUDE and SNOBBISH IGNORANCE, we all make spelling and grammar mistakes, even you I bet, so why don't you just go with the flow and cut the ELITIST BULLSHIT_just an observation.:D




You were slightly critical in your review of Bill, so maybe you are the one who should back off. You seem to have a strong opinion. You are ignorant, rude and definitely want to make a name for yourself on this post. I guess your cutting remarks make you feel important. You seem to write whatever you want, so what is wrong with everyone else writing what they want? You are not the post police are you? Everyone makes mistakes, including me--I agree. For someone who wants others to go "with the flow", you are sure uptight.

[Lou]

You were slightly critical in your review of Bill, so maybe you are the one who should back off. You seem to have a strong opinion. You are ignorant, rude and definitely want to make a name for yourself on this post. I guess your cutting remarks make you feel important. You seem to write whatever you want, so what is wrong with everyone else writing what they want? You are not the post police are you? Everyone makes mistakes, including me--I agree. For someone who wants others to go "with the flow", you are sure uptight.

The only thing that I disagree with 'Bill' on with regard to the Chemtrail spraying is his stance on it involving population reduction, in general I agree with him 100% with regard to "Weather Modification" and military applications, so where was I being critical in my post about 'Bill's' opinions on Chemtrails, I was just stating my own and I don't believe that 'Bill' needs a SOCK PUPPET IDIOT like you to defend him, I'm fairly sure that he can speak for himself if he feels the need to do so.

If you think I was RUDE that's really to bad, I did not tell you to GO FUCK YOURSELF but that thought did occur to me, as far as my being "Ignorant" and wanting to make a name for myself that just more of your ELITIST ARROGANT BULLSHIT surfacing as usual, I already have a name, it's Lou Aubuchont and you pretending not to know that only show your own ignorance.

UPTIGHT?,... Ha,...........No, I'm just sick of your BULLSHIT like everyone else, that's all, you get chased away from here under one ID and come slithering back as another, your worse that a FRIGGEN COCKROACH.

Now, why don't you go back to your NOTHING ALLAIRPLANES BOARD 'Jeffie Boy" and stop with the dog and pony show, or is that "Phony" show you putting on for everyone.:rolleyes:

BY By 'socrates' / "may41970" / "Jeff Reynolds",........."Saturn",...........Ha !:D

[Saturn]

Lou,

I am happy you have a name. I am sure many people have a name for you. As far as bullshit, you are king.

I have read your other posts and you are one angry, argumentative person. You obviously are really upset about my comment. I really did not know it would upset you so much, but after reading your other posts, it is clear you get angry and upset easily.

Relax. Have your way. Say and do whatever you like and no one will disagree with you. Adults usually communicate with one another. Flying off the handle and using swears is for bullies who can't get their point across any other way.

Rage on.

[halva]

Do we have evidence that Saturn is Jeff Reynolds/May41970?

If we don't, it might be over-reacting, to behave towards him as if this is established fact.

[Saturn]

Do we have evidence that Saturn is Jeff Reynolds/May41970?

If we don't, it might be over-reacting, to behave towards him as if this is established fact.


I can tell you truthfully that I am not Jeff Reynolds and that I do not know who he is.

[Lou]

YEAH RIGHT,......BLA,BLA,BLA,......SAME OLD CRAP, NEW ID, SAME OLD CRAP, YADDA,YADDA,YADDA !

[Lou]

Lou,

I am happy you have a name. I am sure many people have a name for you. As far as bullshit, you are king.

I have read your other posts and you are one angry, argumentative person. You obviously are really upset about my comment. I really did not know it would upset you so much, but after reading your other posts, it is clear you get angry and upset easily.

Relax. Have your way. Say and do whatever you like and no one will disagree with you. Adults usually communicate with one another. Flying off the handle and using swears is for bullies who can't get their point across any other way.

Rage on.


GO FUCK YOURSELF,.......GOT THAT BITCH,........IS THAT RUDE ENOUGH FOR YOU ASSHOLE?

YOUR THE PIECE OF SHIT THAT STARED THIS BULLSHIT ARN'T YOU, SO DON'T PUT IT ON ME FOR NOT TAKING YOUR SHIT YOU FUCKING PRICK TROUBLEMAKER.

I THINK YOUR A FRIGGEN LIAR AND YOU ARE 'SOCRATES' / "JEFF REYNOLDS" / "MAY41970" AND NOW THIS NEW ID "SATURN", ALL OF YOUR CARTOONS HAVE A PENSION FOR BITCHING ABOUT SOMEONES SPELLING AND GRAMMAR MISTAKES, IT ONE OF YOUR TRADEMARK SIGNATURES THAT YOUR SO WELL KNOWN FOR.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHO "JEFF REYNOLDS" IS AND YOUR POSTING IN THE SCIENCE SECTION OF DBS,.............Ha! :D

SO, WHAT SMOKE ARE YOU GOING BLOW NEXT DIMWIT?:rolleyes:

[halva]

I think it is the best policy to behave towards Saturn as if he is a new poster.

It doesn't really matter if he is not if he represents an attempt by Jeff Reynolds/May41970 to make a new start.

Of course if there is this desire on the part of Jeff Reynolds/May41970 it is hard to explain why he wants to keep posting under the name of May41970.

Therefore, Saturn may be a genuine newcomer.

What about treating him as if he is???

[Lou]

I think it is the best policy to behave towards Saturn as if he is a new poster.

It doesn't really matter if he is not if he represents an attempt by Jeff Reynolds/May41970 to make a new start.

Of course if there is this desire on the part of Jeff Reynolds/May41970 it is hard to explain why he wants to keep posting under the name of May41970.

Therefore, Saturn may be a genuine newcomer.

What about treating him as if he is???

No Wayne_I'm of the opinion that this 'Saturn' as far as I'm concerned is just another one of 'socrates' CARTOON CHARACTERS like 'may41970'.

Who would be so NAIVE as to come here and not know who either one of the 'Reynolds" are, you believe what you want, I'll do the same, Ok?

[Saturn]

I think it is the best policy to behave towards Saturn as if he is a new poster.

It doesn't really matter if he is not if he represents an attempt by Jeff Reynolds/May41970 to make a new start.

Of course if there is this desire on the part of Jeff Reynolds/May41970 it is hard to explain why he wants to keep posting under the name of May41970.

Therefore, Saturn may be a genuine newcomer.

What about treating him as if he is???

Thanks, Halva, but I think Lou has a history of anger. I won't address him anymore. I appreciate your help.

[halva]

Thanks, Halva, but I think Lou has a history of anger. I won't address him anymore. I appreciate your help.

I don't think Jeff Reynolds would say this, so we'll see how this goes.

Norhing personal, Lou. If you turn out to be right, I will do a mea culpa.

[Saturn]

Halva,

You won't have to do a mea culpa. I am not Jeff. I found Bill Gallagher's interview on-line attached to this site. I have never been here before. I just find Bill to be extremely intelligent.

[halva]

OK. I still haven't found the time to listen to his interview. I did a google on him and looked at some other sites and articles that were less time consuming. I hope to get around to it next week or the week after since I have to do some travelling for the next few days.

Have you been involved with "chemtrails" for a long time?

[halva]

Greenhouse plan could damage ozone
http://www.examiner.com/a-1358344~Greenhouse_plan_could_damage_ozone

Apr 24, 2008 4:37 PM (11 days ago) By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID, AP

WASHINGTON (Map, News) - The rule of unintended consequences threatens to strike again.

Some researchers have suggested that injecting sulfur compounds into the atmosphere might help ease global warming by increasing clouds and haze that would reflect sunlight.

After all, they reason, when volcanoes spew lots of sulfur, months or more of cooling often follows.

But a new study warns that injecting enough sulfur to reduce warming would wipe out the Arctic ozone layer and delay recovery of the Antarctic ozone hole by as much as 70 years.

"Our research indicates that trying to artificially cool off the planet could have perilous side effects," said Simone Tilmes of the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo.

"While climate change is a major threat, more research is required before society attempts global geoengineering solutions," said Tilmes, lead author of a paper appearing in Thursday's online edition of the journal Science.

And while one study worries that fixing climate will destroy ozone, another raises the possibility that recovery of the ozone hole over Antarctica will worsen warming in that region.

A full recovery of the ozone hole could modify climate in the Southern Hemisphere and even amplify Antarctic warming, scientists from the University of Colorado at Boulder, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and NASA report in a paper scheduled for Geophysical Research Letters.

Although temperatures have been rising worldwide, there has been cooling in the interior of Antarctica in summer, which researchers attribute to the depletion of ozone overhead.

"If the successful control of ozone-depleting substances allows for a full recovery of the ozone hole over Antarctica, we may finally see the interior of Antarctica begin to warm with the rest of the world," said Judith Perlwitz of the Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences, a joint institute of CU-Boulder and NOAA.

The authors used a NASA supercomputer to model interactions between the climate and stratospheric ozone chemistry. A return to pre-1969 ozone levels would mean atmospheric circulation patterns now shielding the Antarctic interior from warmer air to the north will begin to break down during the summer, they concluded.

The idea of reversing global warming by injecting sulfates into the air was suggested by eruptions such as the 1991 blast by Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines, which produced a brief cooling.

The massive 1815 eruption of Tambora in what is now Indonesia produced such a strong cooling that 1816 became known as the "year without a summer" in New England, where snow fell in every month of the year.

But Tilmes knew that volcanic eruptions also temporarily thin the ozone layer, which protects people, plants and animals from the most dangerous ultraviolet rays from the sun.

So she and colleagues calculated the effect of suggested sulfate injections and concluded that the result, over the next few decades, would be to destroy between one-fourth to three-fourths of the ozone layer above the Arctic. This would affect a large part of the Northern Hemisphere because of atmospheric circulation patterns.

The sulfates would also delay the expected recovery of the ozone hole over the Antarctic by about 30 to 70 years, or until at least the last decade of this century, they said.

The research was supported by the United Kingdom Meteorological Office, University Corporation for Atmospheric Research and NASA.

The study comes just a day after the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reported that despite efforts to reduce greenhouse gases, the rate of increase of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is accelerating.

Concern has grown in recent years about such gases, with most atmospheric scientists concerned that the accumulation is causing increases in the earth's temperature, potentially disrupting climate and changing patterns of rainfall, drought and other storms.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has worked to detail the scientific bases of this problem and the Kyoto agreement sought to encourage countries to take steps to reduce their greenhouse emissions. Some countries, particularly in Europe, have taken steps to reduce emissions.

But carbon dioxide emissions, primarily from burning fossil fuels such as coal, oil and gas have continued to increase. Since 2000, annual increases of two parts per million or more have been common, compared with 1.5 ppm per year in the 1980s and less than one ppm per year during the 1960s, NOAA's Earth System Research Laboratory said. Last year the increase was 2.4 parts per million.

Meanwhile, in a separate paper in Science, researchers said human activities are at least partly responsible for the Arctic having become a wetter place over the last half century.

Seung-Ki Min of Environment Canada, and colleagues, studied rain and snowfall patterns in the arctic and the factors affecting them.

They concluded that human-induced greenhouse gases have contributed to the increased precipitation rates observed in the Arctic region over the past 60 years.

They warned that this "Arctic moistening" could occur more quickly than current climate simulations indicate.

Their work was supported by the U.S. Department of Energy and the Canadian International Polar Year Program.

[Saturn]

OK. I still haven't found the time to listen to his interview. I did a google on him and looked at some other sites and articles that were less time consuming. I hope to get around to it next week or the week after since I have to do some travelling for the next few days.

Have you been involved with "chemtrails" for a long time?


No. Actually I am quite new to this topic. I have seen them, of course, but never knew a lot about them. I have read they are an NWO tactic because of the chemicals they drop that weaken the immune system. Just learning so anything you have please send it my way. I appreciate it. Thanks.

[halva]

The site we run is http://www.enouranois.gr

[Saturn]

The site we run is http://www.enouranois.gr

Thanks for sharing it with me, however, I can't read it because it isn't in English. Any suggestions?

[halva]

Thanks for sharing it with me, however, I can't read it because it isn't in English. Any suggestions?

Just click where it says English

;

[halva]

The last three days I've been at an anti-nuclear conference in France.
http://acdn.france.free.fr/spip/breve.php3?id_breve=625%E2%8C%A9=fr

The conference was generally very successful, but there were some problems arising from the decision of the organizers to invite the Iranian ambassador. Two local NGOs, one a gay group and one a secular republican group asked local residents to boycott the conference because of the presence of the Iranians. The Socialist mayor evidently thought he had to appease these groups. As a result he even refused to receive in his office the representative of the Mayor of Hiroshima.

But there was wrong politics on the Iranian side also. The Iranians refused to share the podium with Israeli citizens. One of the two Israelis who were to come did not come because of this. The other did come, and asked the ambassador some sharp questions. The ambassador said he would reply to all questions, and did so.

I gave two papers, including one on geoengineering, the English-language version of which is reproduced below:

CLIMATE CHANGE AND GEOENGINEERING
AN INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION IS NEEDED

It is now over ten years since the first reports began to appear on the Internet of what appears to be a world-wide programme, for unannounced purposes, of spraying from aircraft. This activity, if it exists, has been given the name “chemtrails” (chemical trails). The qualifier “if it exists” is inserted because, for all the years that the phenomenon has been observed and reported, the official position, from government and scientific sources, has been that what citizens are witnessing is nothing other than conventional aircraft emissions, and that no deliberate “spraying” activity is underway. (Whether legitimate distinctions can still be drawn between “aircraft emissions” and “spraying” is another, by no means straightforward, question.)

In Greece the “chemtrails” subject has been raised around five times in the national parliament. It has also been raised in the European parliament. In all cases the official response has been such as to discourage the questioner from pursuing the matter further. Attempts, both by elected bodies such as the municipal council of Aigina in Greece, or by private individuals, to take legal action against what has been reported by some sections of the media to be “spraying”, have been rebuffed by arguments from lawyers 1) that no proof can be offered that what is involved is deliberate spraying and 2) that no legal framework exists for the handling of such complaints.

Would-be litigants are asked to “wait” for the missing legislation to be passed. The reality is, however, that no identifiable group of politicians or scientists appear to be willing to take the requisite political or scientific responsibility for what eyewitnesses claim to be convinced is happening. It may well be that those who are opposed, both practically and theoretically, to what they believe is occurring, are the ones who will be forced, by default, to take political responsibility for it.

A legislative framework does exist for spraying for military purposes. That is the Environmental Modification Convention of October 1978, which prohibits the use of environmental modification as a weapon. The existence of this treaty has inspired a group of scientists in Germany, along with the Green Party politician Johannes Remmel and the meteorologist Karsten Brandt, to file a suit against the German government for climate manipulation, “using chemical trails (chemtrails) comprised of fine dust containing polymers and metals, used to disrupt radar signals.”

What this amounts to is prosecution on the basis of what law is available rather than what is likely actually to be occurring, given that most of the theoretical debate on climate modification covers non-military objectives such as mitigation of the effects of climate change.

The non-military aspect of “chemtrails” goes by the name of geoengineering. In recent years it has been the subject of much promotional journalism recommending it as a “politically realistic” alternative to attempting to limit greenhouse gas emissions as required by the Kyoto guidelines.

One of the latest such articles canvasses the benefits of injecting the upper atmosphere with particles of glass to dampen the effects of “global warming”. Reporting on research being carried out at the US Department of Energy’s Savannah River National Laboratory in Aiken, South Carolina, this recent article of the Cybercast News Service contains certain new features such as positive comments from professional “climate change sceptics” on the virtues of geoengineering. Until recently the expressed attitude of most “climate change sceptics” towards geoengineering proposals was extremely negative. The “sceptic” Timothy Ball, for example, last year said that Nobel Prize-winning physicist Paul Crutzen should have his Nobel Prize taken away from him as punishment for his geoengineering proposals of spraying sulphur in the stratosphere.

http://www.enouranois.gr/english/political/Dialogue_with_a_Climate_Change_Contrarian.doc

Now the prominent climate change “sceptic” and free market ideologue Patrick Michaels is saying that “the real debate over climate should centre on geoengineering”, an argument presented in the past - to little effect – to climate change activists and scientists, who have been mostly very reluctant to broach the subject, and in some cases (for example the Greek climate scientist Dimitris Lalas) have explicitly refused.

Of course Michaels has his own reasons for making his point. He says: “Global warming theorists are finally starting to get the message - which is that you really can't do much about global warming with carbon restrictions. They are starting to realize that we can't impact global climate change by imposing huge global taxes on carbon, or trying to ban all fossil fuels.”

The basic stance of the climate change sceptics was laid down in the late Edward Teller’s 1998 Wall Street Journal article “Sunscreen for Planet Earth”. It is this: we question whether there is really a climate change or global warming problem, but in any case, if there were a problem, this would be the solution to it”: The solutions the climate change sceptics accept to problems whose existence they are aggressively opposed to recognizing are 1) geoengineering, above all the planetary spraying of light-reflective particles to reduce levels of incoming sunlight and 2) nuclear power, as the allegedly carbon-free energy source of the future.

The geoengineering proponent David Keith is on record as saying the following: “What we need is not just a few oddballs like me thinking about this (i.e. about geoengineering) .We need a broader debate, a debate that involves: musicians, scientists, philosophers, writers, who get engaged with this question about climate engineering and think seriously about what its implications are.” This is the same David Keith that is also on record a saying, following a September 2001 meeting in the White House on ‘Response Options to Rapid or Severe Climate Change’, that ‘if they had broadcast that meeting live to people in Europe, there would have been riots.’

Keith’s challenge to public dialogue, and specifically his declaration of willingness to be personally involved in it, should be accepted, because of the valid point recently made by Athenian citizen activist John Lewis: “An International Convention on Geoengineering is needed. It is a science that needs both to be developed and to be controlled.”

It should be understood that the condition for public dialogue with people such as David Keith is going to be conformity with the official assertion, in government and in the scientific community, that geoengineering proposals of the type Keith himself makes have not yet begun to be implemented, and will be implemented at some point in the future only as a last resort.

The reasons for the adoption of this position are probably as follows: as outlined by the lawyer Bodansky in the 1990s, the political difficulties of legalizing geoengineering are enormous. Decisions, however, to proceed with implementation without prior establishment of a legal framework leave the agencies engaged in geoengineering activity open to the threat of litigation, including politically-motivated litigation, from climate change sceptics and their corporate backers.

Collaboration will therefore have to focus on the question of how the threat of this kind of litigation can be averted while at the same time the legitimate demands of the public for protection are respected.

[halva]

Collaboration will also have to focus on how distinctions can be instituted between military-motivated applications of aerosol spraying technology, such as that allegedly needed for facilitating the operations of geophysical weapons such as HAARP, and the use of aerosols in geoengineering. The former is covered by the Environmental Modification Convention of 1978. The latter is not. As well as working towards securing enforcement of existing environmental modification legislation (as was attempted with the 1999 Europarliament report A4-0005/99 “On the Environment, Security and Foreign Policy”) collaboration would have to focus on more effective political countering of “climate change sceptic” strategies and specifically on what appears to be the beginnings of a strategy for replacement of the present official climate change debate (a debate between the “sceptics” on one hand and mainstream climate science on the other) by a new debate over geoengineering in which the erstwhile “sceptics”, would continue to have a role as representatives of “political realism”.

The outrageousness of the “sceptics” strategy of preventing humanly and environmentally acceptable solutions to problems by denying the existence of such problems, only to come in thirty years later as representatives of so-called “realistic” but in fact entirely unacceptable “solutions” to the problems whose existence they denied, must be fully exposed and the “sceptics” consigned to the same marginal and disreputable position as that to which “chemtrails” activists and “conspiracy theorists” are nowadays confined.

[halva]

Some information on chaff:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/gao/ns98219.pdf

[Lou]

This is interesting, especially given the text and photos in the second linked article.
_______________________________________

http://rense.com/general82/notg.htm

Major Health Discovery
Made And It Is Not Good
By Kafka
5-19-8

Last year, I purchased five Chinese made 1,000 watt electrical generators. They were all defective because of faulty electrical magnetos that would not produce voltage to fire the spark plug. The generators would not start or run.
Off the shelf replacement ignition systems were not available, so a decision was made to design and build electronic ignition systems to make the generators functional. My friend, Carl, designed and built a state of the art prototype ignition system using a Hall Effect Sensor to detect the rotation of the motor shaft to fire the spark plug. The new prototype worked perfectly on the test bench inside the house but the Hall Effect (Magnetic) Sensor failed after seconds of operation installed on the generator outside the house and would not respond to a magnet manually passed in front of the Hall Sensor. The magnetic sensor capability failed completely. But, after close inspection, the Hall Sensor was observed to be in a permanent conductive state while outside the house installed on the generator. The ignition system was removed from the generator and placed on the test bench inside the house. It stopped conducting inside the house. A total of fifteen Hall Effect Sensors failed in the same manner. Two separate tests were performed by moving the solid state ignition system with Hall Effect Sensor outside the house where it failed and became conductive and when moved inside the house, it became non-conductive. That is to say, outside the house it was permanently on and inside the house it was permanently off.
Inside the Hall Effect Solid State Sensor there is a component called a Hall Plate. If the Hall Plate is driven into saturation by microwave radiation from the sky, it would go conductive, and if you shielded the Hall Effect Sensor from that foreign radiation, it would go non-conductive. Moving the Hall Effect Sensor inside the house would shield the radiation somewhat and again the sensor would go non-conductive !
When we realized the implications of our findings, we felt terror !
This is our conclusion.
We know the chemtrails are a primary RFMP (Radio Frequency Mission Planner) heavy metal barium mixture plus DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Programs Agency) chemistry (biological) used for various military applications, including weather control. We know the atmosphere has been converted into an electrical plasma environment with ongoing ionic manipulation. We believe the atmosphere is an ever decaying calderon of death for citizens. Sooner or later it will effect the health of all.
With the addition of significant microwave radiation in a plasma atmosphere environment, you have a recipe for death of all life on earth.
1. The human electrical system is greatly compromised and disrupted.
2. Inability to sleep.
3. The heart beat rhythm can be interrupted and adversely effected, pulsing fast at times.
4. Blood pressure increases.
5. Accelerated aging of the skin.
6. Cancers.
7. Visual eye problems and a multitude of illnesses can be attributed to the plasma atmosphere with microwave radiation coming down on the citizens.
8. Mental processes adversely affected and reduced.
9. Every aspect of life on earth is at risk for sickness and death.
Remember, it does not matter who kills you, whether it is lawful or not. It does not matter if it is the good guy or the bad guy that kills you. The reason for your death does not matter. It only matters that you are dead.
We continue to investigate.
--Kafka
http://worldnews2005.tripod.com/id22.html
__________________________________________________ ____________________

Note in the link below the Chemtrails and HARRP (Now under complete military control) like effects in the photos and ask yourself if the Earthquake could have been a result of China or some other country experimenting with the earth's electromagnetic field?

Anyone familiar with the Chemtrail issue will recognize the multi colored clouds due to the effects of energy being applied to the aerosolized metals and other materials in the atmosphere.

Although such "Lights" have been observed prior to earthquakes long before there was ever a "Chemtrailing" issue I would say that it's a natural phenomenon but adding what we know about HARRP and suspect about Chemtrails I believe that we are seeing a combination of both natural and manmade causes in these photos.

http://pinewooddesign.co.uk/2008/05/12/earthquake-cloud-prediction/

One can not help but consider that there is a component of the earth's depopulation involved with these HARRP / Chemtrail projects or advances based on 'NikolaTesla' discoveries ongoing and now coincidentally this killer earthquake in China and lets not forget the recent depopulation event that the Myanmar Typhoon just caused.

You can blame it all on nature but is that really the cause,.... that's food for thought for sure.

[kola]

I have said this for years. I truley worry about HAARP and celltowers (I call them death towers). It is these waves that we cannot see AND couple that with biological experimentations with nano-shit and we are in deep fuckin shit.

one question I do have relating to the above articles is this. I do believe older cars use the Hall-Effect for distributors that induce the spark. So shouldnt older autos be effected?

Kola

[foot_soldier]

I personally see the HAARP experiments as an ill-advised perturbation of the Earth's etheric body.

To say the least.

Would you agree, kola?

[Lou]

I have said this for years. I truley worry about HAARP and celltowers (I call them death towers). It is these waves that we cannot see AND couple that with biological experimentations with nano-shit and we are in deep fuckin shit.

one question I do have relating to the above articles is this. I do believe older cars use the Hall-Effect for distributors that induce the spark. So shouldnt older autos be effected?

Kola

Most of the HE distributors where made through the late 70's and up through the 80's, if you ever owned a Dodge product of that time frame it probably had the factory HE distributor.

Most of the older cars and trucks I've owned had points in them or high end high performance relay distributors, as for the older HE type Sensor failing because of EM interference I've never heard of such happening but I have seen them fail, as to why, who knows, I just assumed they where replaced because they failed, I never heard anyone ask why they failed.

Remember way back when people where concerned about all of the radio waves we where creating and what effects they might have on us, now look at the crap we are saturating our planet and atmosphere with, radio waves, ..................Ha!

You ever feel like your living inside a microwave?:rolleyes::eek:

[kola]

Yes, I strongly believe HAARP, ELF etc create disharmony to Mother Earth.

I know this shit is passing through the air but can these damn waves penetrate INTO the earth?
Is there really no escape from them?
This fuckin world has gone mad.

btw Lou, those cloud pics you posted are far from normal. I see al lot of those here in Colorado. I never saw them as a kid and I was always a skygazer.

Kola

[Lou]

Yes, I strongly believe HAARP, ELF etc create disharmony to Mother Earth.

I know this shit is passing through the air but can these damn waves penetrate INTO the earth?
Is there really no escape from them?
This fuckin world has gone mad.

btw Lou, those cloud pics you posted are far from normal. I see al lot of those here in Colorado. I never saw them as a kid and I was always a skygazer.

Kola

Hell yes_the earth is a massive transmitter of RF and microwaves, it's a huge freaking electromagnet that generates a massive electromagnetic field that emanates from the core outwards through the earth it's atmosphere and out into space and the manmade crap that we are introducing into it is no doubt screwing it up big time.

As far as getting away from them, I'd say that's a "No way" but you can shield yourself from a good percentage of them but you can't stay inside a bunker forever, sooner or later you have to come out into that RF, EM, MW soup.:eek:

The photos of the RAINBOW COLORED clouds (How Chemtrail like) where taken two days before the China earthquake, there is one near the bottom of the page that clearly shows Chemtrails in it, go figure.

Re: The old HE distributors had those heavy plastic caps over them so maybe that gives them a fair degree of protection, plus you have the metal hood of the vehicle over them which is pretty good insulation from microwaves also.

I think you would have to get hit with more than random microwave radiation to cause the HE sensor to fail.

It did not say in the article how much shielding their sensors had but by the sound of it they must have been pretty exposed.

[CDsNuTz]

On That Note...........



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-lfJC28FiM&feature=related


My Favorite song at the present..

PEACE ALL!!

[halva]

This is interesting, especially given the text and photos in the second linked article.
_______________________________________

http://rense.com/general82/notg.htm

Major Health Discovery
Made And It Is Not Good
By Kafka
5-19-8

Last year, I purchased five Chinese made 1,000 watt electrical generators. They were all defective because of faulty electrical magnetos that would not produce voltage to fire the spark plug. The generators would not start or run.
Off the shelf replacement ignition systems were not available, so a decision was made to design and build electronic ignition systems to make the generators functional. My friend, Carl, designed and built a state of the art prototype ignition system using a Hall Effect Sensor to detect the rotation of the motor shaft to fire the spark plug. The new prototype worked perfectly on the test bench inside the house but the Hall Effect (Magnetic) Sensor failed after seconds of operation installed on the generator outside the house and would not respond to a magnet manually passed in front of the Hall Sensor. The magnetic sensor capability failed completely. But, after close inspection, the Hall Sensor was observed to be in a permanent conductive state while outside the house installed on the generator. The ignition system was removed from the generator and placed on the test bench inside the house. It stopped conducting inside the house. A total of fifteen Hall Effect Sensors failed in the same manner. Two separate tests were performed by moving the solid state ignition system with Hall Effect Sensor outside the house where it failed and became conductive and when moved inside the house, it became non-conductive. That is to say, outside the house it was permanently on and inside the house it was permanently off.
Inside the Hall Effect Solid State Sensor there is a component called a Hall Plate. If the Hall Plate is driven into saturation by microwave radiation from the sky, it would go conductive, and if you shielded the Hall Effect Sensor from that foreign radiation, it would go non-conductive. Moving the Hall Effect Sensor inside the house would shield the radiation somewhat and again the sensor would go non-conductive !
When we realized the implications of our findings, we felt terror !
This is our conclusion.
We know the chemtrails are a primary RFMP (Radio Frequency Mission Planner) heavy metal barium mixture plus DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Programs Agency) chemistry (biological) used for various military applications, including weather control. We know the atmosphere has been converted into an electrical plasma environment with ongoing ionic manipulation. We believe the atmosphere is an ever decaying calderon of death for citizens. Sooner or later it will effect the health of all.
With the addition of significant microwave radiation in a plasma atmosphere environment, you have a recipe for death of all life on earth.
1. The human electrical system is greatly compromised and disrupted.
2. Inability to sleep.
3. The heart beat rhythm can be interrupted and adversely effected, pulsing fast at times.
4. Blood pressure increases.
5. Accelerated aging of the skin.
6. Cancers.
7. Visual eye problems and a multitude of illnesses can be attributed to the plasma atmosphere with microwave radiation coming down on the citizens.
8. Mental processes adversely affected and reduced.
9. Every aspect of life on earth is at risk for sickness and death.
Remember, it does not matter who kills you, whether it is lawful or not. It does not matter if it is the good guy or the bad guy that kills you. The reason for your death does not matter. It only matters that you are dead.
We continue to investigate.
--Kafka
http://worldnews2005.tripod.com/id22.html
__________________________________________________ ____________________

Note in the link below the Chemtrails and HARRP (Now under complete military control) like effects in the photos and ask yourself if the Earthquake could have been a result of China or some other country experimenting with the earth's electromagnetic field?

Anyone familiar with the Chemtrail issue will recognize the multi colored clouds due to the effects of energy being applied to the aerosolized metals and other materials in the atmosphere.

Although such "Lights" have been observed prior to earthquakes long before there was ever a "Chemtrailing" issue I would say that it's a natural phenomenon but adding what we know about HARRP and suspect about Chemtrails I believe that we are seeing a combination of both natural and manmade causes in these photos.

http://pinewooddesign.co.uk/2008/05/12/earthquake-cloud-prediction/

One can not help but consider that there is a component of the earth's depopulation involved with these HARRP / Chemtrail projects or advances based on 'NikolaTesla' discoveries ongoing and now coincidentally this killer earthquake in China and lets not forget the recent depopulation event that the Myanmar Typhoon just caused.

You can blame it all on nature but is that really the cause,.... that's food for thought for sure.

http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=940499&postcount=8849

[Lou]

http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=940499&postcount=8849

Yes indeed Wayne, it's obvious that there is an inherent evil loose in this world that thinks nothing of committing genocide on the population and masking it as acts of nature, cowards have always had a need for a patsy to cover up the evil deeds that they do. :mad:

[kola]

and the burning question:

can it be stopped?

what would it take?

We need V for Vendetta.

btw the last two days we have been chemntrailed to death. People here are acting very agitated and overly aggressive including me and I have never been effected by chem days before. Odd shit.

Kola

[halva]

I have managed to get chemtrails onto the agenda of a French nuclear disarmament conference, where "respectable" people are participating.
http://acdn.france.free.fr/spip/breve.php3?id_breve=625&var_recherche=chemtrails

What can we do with this? Is it a step forward?

[halva]

Tim Flannery was a subject for arguments some time back at Megasprayer. Can there any longer be doubt as to his position?

http://theorstrahyun.blogspot.com/2008/05/flannery-use-chemtrails-to-fight-global.html

Flannery : Use Chemtrails To Fight Global Warming

Carbon bad, but sulphur is good?

Scientist Tim Flannery has proposed a radical solution to climate change which may change the colour of the sky.

But he says it may be necessary, as the "last barrier to climate collapse."

Professor Flannery says climate change is happening so quickly that mankind may need to pump sulphur into the atmosphere to survive.

The gas sulphur could be inserted into the earth's stratosphere to keep out the sun's rays and slow global warming, a process called global dimming.

"It would change the colour of the sky," Prof Flannery told AAP.

"It's the last resort that we have, it's the last barrier to a climate collapse.

"We need to be ready to start doing it in perhaps five years time if we fail to achieve what we're trying to achieve."

Prof Flannery, the 2007 Australian of the Year, said the sulphur could be dispersed above the earth's surface by adding it to jet fuel.

He conceded there were risks to global dimming via sulphur.

"The consequences of doing that are unknown."

Flannery should come clean. Trials of dumping sulphur and other chemicals into the atmosphere from planes to create a 'sun shield', to encourage global dimming, has been going on for years. Distributing a substance like sulphur from planes is the very definition of a 'chem trail', and these test runs have been on show over Sydney in recent months, for anyone who bothers to look up occasionally.

The 'dimming' that Flannery talks of will be similar to the skies we've come to know well over some Australian cities in recent years. The cloud cover spreads early in the morning, and fills the sky, thin cloud but from horizon to horizon, blocking out much of the direct sunlight, and the cloud cover stays around for days. It's not the miserable grey of London skies, it's just...dim.

You will hear much, much more talk of using chemtrails to fight climate change very soon, if Flannery is speaking of such plans on behalf of international interests, and presumably he is.

ABC's Four Corners current affairs program ran a story on the dangers of global dimming in mid-2005. Despite what Flannery claims, scientists have a pretty good idea of what global dimming will do to the planet :

Noticed less sunshine lately? Scientists have discovered that the amount of sunlight reaching the Earth’s surface has been falling over recent decades.

If the climatologists are right, their discovery holds the potential for powerful disruption to life on our planet. Already it may have contributed to many thousands of deaths through drought and famine.

Global dimming is a product of the fossil fuels that cause global warming. It is the result of tiny airborne pieces of soot, ash and sulphur compounds reflecting back the heat of the sun.

Scientists have also linked global dimming to the failure of rains in sub-Saharan Africa – and the catastrophic droughts that hit Ethiopia in the 1980s. They worry that the same thing will happen again in areas like Asia, home to billions of people.

The overriding concern expressed by climate scientists in this program is that our climate will be radically altered, rendering many parts of the planet uninhabitable - unless concerted action is taken to combat both global dimming and global warming.


So more pollution will counter global warming, as long as it's sulphur pollution, but we need to cut carbon pollution and then increase the amount of sulphur in the atmosphere to encourage global dimming, which masks the full effects of global warming, which will destroy much of the world if it's not stopped, but global dimming is also destructive, but not as destructive as global warming, which is being held in check by current global dimming so we need to increase global dimming with sulphur while cutting down on carbon to stop global warming...or something.

I'm sure it makes perfect sense, if you're a professor.

[Lou]

Tim Flannery was a subject for arguments some time back at Megasprayer. Can there any longer be doubt as to his position?

http://theorstrahyun.blogspot.com/2008/05/flannery-use-chemtrails-to-fight-global.html

Flannery : Use Chemtrails To Fight Global Warming

Carbon bad, but sulphur is good?

Scientist Tim Flannery has proposed a radical solution to climate change which may change the colour of the sky.

But he says it may be necessary, as the "last barrier to climate collapse."

Professor Flannery says climate change is happening so quickly that mankind may need to pump sulphur into the atmosphere to survive.

The gas sulphur could be inserted into the earth's stratosphere to keep out the sun's rays and slow global warming, a process called global dimming.

"It would change the colour of the sky," Prof Flannery told AAP.

"It's the last resort that we have, it's the last barrier to a climate collapse.

"We need to be ready to start doing it in perhaps five years time if we fail to achieve what we're trying to achieve."

Prof Flannery, the 2007 Australian of the Year, said the sulphur could be dispersed above the earth's surface by adding it to jet fuel.

He conceded there were risks to global dimming via sulphur.

"The consequences of doing that are unknown."

Flannery should come clean. Trials of dumping sulphur and other chemicals into the atmosphere from planes to create a 'sun shield', to encourage global dimming, has been going on for years. Distributing a substance like sulphur from planes is the very definition of a 'chem trail', and these test runs have been on show over Sydney in recent months, for anyone who bothers to look up occasionally.

The 'dimming' that Flannery talks of will be similar to the skies we've come to know well over some Australian cities in recent years. The cloud cover spreads early in the morning, and fills the sky, thin cloud but from horizon to horizon, blocking out much of the direct sunlight, and the cloud cover stays around for days. It's not the miserable grey of London skies, it's just...dim.

You will hear much, much more talk of using chemtrails to fight climate change very soon, if Flannery is speaking of such plans on behalf of international interests, and presumably he is.

ABC's Four Corners current affairs program ran a story on the dangers of global dimming in mid-2005. Despite what Flannery claims, scientists have a pretty good idea of what global dimming will do to the planet :

Noticed less sunshine lately? Scientists have discovered that the amount of sunlight reaching the Earth’s surface has been falling over recent decades.

If the climatologists are right, their discovery holds the potential for powerful disruption to life on our planet. Already it may have contributed to many thousands of deaths through drought and famine.

Global dimming is a product of the fossil fuels that cause global warming. It is the result of tiny airborne pieces of soot, ash and sulphur compounds reflecting back the heat of the sun.

Scientists have also linked global dimming to the failure of rains in sub-Saharan Africa – and the catastrophic droughts that hit Ethiopia in the 1980s. They worry that the same thing will happen again in areas like Asia, home to billions of people.

The overriding concern expressed by climate scientists in this program is that our climate will be radically altered, rendering many parts of the planet uninhabitable - unless concerted action is taken to combat both global dimming and global warming.


So more pollution will counter global warming, as long as it's sulphur pollution, but we need to cut carbon pollution and then increase the amount of sulphur in the atmosphere to encourage global dimming, which masks the full effects of global warming, which will destroy much of the world if it's not stopped, but global dimming is also destructive, but not as destructive as global warming, which is being held in check by current global dimming so we need to increase global dimming with sulphur while cutting down on carbon to stop global warming...or something.

I'm sure it makes perfect sense, if you're a professor.

I remember how back in the 70's, atmospheric scientist where clamoring how we needed to stop industrial pollution in order to stop the problem of "Acid Rain" which in some parts of the country was eating the stone facades right of buildings, the major polluting contributor to "Acid Rain" that the scientist where so concerned about at that time was none other than SULFUR DIOXIDE and compounds of sulfur.

Isn't it odd that people like this scientist 'Tim Flannery' just overlook the obvious fact that filling the atmosphere with sulfur in any form would cause the old problem of "Acid Rain" to come back anew, maybe he feels it a tradeoff for the better(?) or worse, live with Sulfuric Acid Rain or adapt and change how we live to accommodate the effects of Global Warming.

According to him this is the " last resort that we have, it's the last barrier to a climate collapse.", well, if that's true then we should all just place our heads between our legs and kiss our asses goodbye because it's way to late to ward off the effects of Global Warming with LAST RESORT measures if that's the only option left to us
_It's game over for us due to our own stupidity.:(

[halva]

Footsoldier introduced me to Tim Flannery. She admires his books, and I cannot deny that he is an extremely talented writer. His positive orientation to geoengineering was evident in his book "The Weather Makers", though for some reason our friends at Megasprayer tried to deny this.

He is now becoming much more outspoken about it.

Will this lead to his being disowned by his fellow climate change activists?

[foot_soldier]

Please do not misrepresent me, halva, and please stop speaking for me.

Thank you.

[Lou]

Footsoldier introduced me to Tim Flannery. She admires his books, and I cannot deny that he is an extremely talented writer. His positive orientation to geoengineering was evident in his book "The Weather Makers", though for some reason our friends at Megasprayer tried to deny this.

He is now becoming much more outspoken about it.

Will this lead to his being disowned by his fellow climate change activists?

Hmmm,...I have not read his book "The Weather Makers" so I am at the disadvantage of not having formed an opinion about 'Tim Flannery's' orientation towards geoengineering one way or the other but I do find his promotion of injecting sulfur into the atmosphere, i.e. as a LAST RESORT measure a bit much given the escalation in Chemtrail / Aerosol spraying that we have seen over the past nine or so years, based on that I would say that the LAST RESORT measures started back in 1999_ongoing.

Given just how badly those responsible for the spraying want to legitimize it, I suspect 'Flannery' has a well credentialed (Government) list of fellow scientist that support his sulfur injection theory, after all just look at those scientist that are supporting Weather Modification Legislation here in the U.S., I can not say that 'Flannery' is part of this crowd or not since I know very little about the man.

I not inclined to blindly buy into his sulfur injection theory for many reasons, not least of all because of the obvious Chemtrail / Aerosol spraying connotation his theory carries over to that which we have already been witnessing taking place in the atmosphere for so long now, my BS meter kicks into high gear when ever I hear someone promoting how great injecting material into the atmosphere that isn't supposed to be there would be and trying to legitimize any form of Chemtrail's / Aerosol spraying as if it's going to save us all from that nasty Global Warming thing.

Call me suspicious but there seems to be more to it than that.

[Lou]

This in an atmosphere with RH values in the low teens which are not conducive to the creation of normal contrails, what do you suppose these trails where made from?

Acadia National Park, Maine 5/13/08 7:52:56 PM EDT.

[halva]

Please do not misrepresent me, halva, and please stop speaking for me.

Thank you.

Footsoldier, I am saying what happened, If you think I am not telling the truth you are perfectly free to say so here, explaining in what way what I say is untrue.

[halva]

The point that I made in the paper on this subject that I gave in France is that one should try to engage people such as Flannery and Keith and see if they are interested in trying to institute distinctions between military applications of these "technologies" and the so-called "benign" applications that they are recommending.

To do this effectively of course you have to have a nucleus of people, including people with connections, who are willing and able to implement a strategy of this kind systematically.

[halva]

What other strategy is possible, given that the practice of governments and official scientific agencies is to deny, deny,deny,deny?

.

[Lou]

_____________***BUMP***________________

[halva]

http://www.european-summer-university.eu/intern/forum/viewtopic.php?p=150#150

[halva]

23/05/2008 : www.europarl.europa.eu/news
European Parliament adopts Resolution for an end to DU weapons

Security and defence - 22-05-2008 - 13:21

In a resolution adopted on depleted uranium (DU) weapons, the House
calls for a moratorium on their use, increased pressure for an
international treaty to ban them, and more research on these weapons.

The resolution "strongly reiterates its call on all EU Member States and
NATO countries to impose a moratorium on the use of depleted uranium
weapons and to redouble efforts towards a global ban." The resolution
was adopted with 491 votes in favour, 18 against and 12 abstentions.

Depleted uranium is used in ammunition, to increase the strength of
casings for penetrating armour. Upon impact, however, the depleted
uranium can be dispersed in the form of DU dust, which can cover large
areas of conflict zones, and have averse health effects both for
soldiers and civilians, even long after the conflict is over.

The Parliament addressed an oral question to both the Commission and the
Council on the subject. Annemie Neyts (ALDE, BE), one of the
question's authors, asked "what specific measures can be taken to halt
exposure to such DU for both soldiers and civilians?" Another author,
Ana Gomes (PES, PT) noted that "the most basic cautionary principle
should get us to stop manufacturing such weapons."

The Council presidency replied that since no consensus exists on this
topic in the Council, there's not much it can do at this juncture.

Commissioner Louis Michel noted that military issues of this nature
lie outside the competence of the European Commission, but expressed his
willingness to conduct a study to re-examine the effects of DU exposure
on human health. He also noted that the Commission does fund efforts
such as projects to remove unexploded ordinance out of post-conflict
zones, citing the example of Lebanon, where 5 million euros of EU funds
have been spent for this purpose.

The joint resolution adopted by Parliament "urges the Member States to
adhere to paragraph 1 of the UN resolution adopted on 5 December 2007
and to submit a report with their views on the effects of the use of
armaments and ammunition containing depleted uranium." It also calls on
the Member States and the Council to take the lead in working towards an
international treaty -- through the UN or through a 'coalition of the
willing' -- to establish a ban on the development, production,
stockpiling, transfer, testing and use of uranium weapons as well as the
destruction or recycling of existing stocks, should there be conclusive
scientific evidence of harm caused by such weapons."

The resolution "strongly reiterates its call on all EU Member States and
NATO countries to impose a moratorium on the use of depleted uranium
weapons and to redouble efforts towards a global ban." It also urges
Member States "not to use depleted uranium weapons in ESDP operations
and not to deploy military and civilian personnel in regions where no
guarantee can be given, to the effect that depleted uranium has not been, or will not be, used."

Also on:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/expert/briefing_page/29026-140-05-21-20080516BRI29011-19-05-2008-2008/default_en.htm

[halva]

Benjamin Fulford on HAARP and the Chinese earthquake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InV0cVH6KZc

[siegmund]

Benjamin Fulford on HAARP and the Chinese earthquake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InV0cVH6KZc

Fulford is a provocateur.
The Sichuan sighting has nothing to do with the earthquake.
http://z13.invisionfree.com/THE_UNHIVED_MIND/index.php?showtopic=55199
The rest of the video is full of defamation.
You should not link without comment otherwise you seem to agree in all details.
Am I right Madresfield?

[halva]

I have Siegmund on ignore and I don't know what he is saying but whatever he is saying he can go and fuck himself. I have explained in great theoretical detail why the debate we are having goes right over the top of people like him, without paying any attention to anything they say.

[siegmund]

I have Siegmund on ignore and I don't know what he is saying but whatever he is saying he can go and fuck himself. I have explained in great theoretical detail why the debate we are having goes right over the top of people like him, without paying any attention to anything they say.

WOW. In the meantime you can write my name.


#9 2 Weeks Ago
halva
Location: Greece
Posts: 6,658

Re: Photos of a Chemtrail plane (?) Could be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whatever Siegface is saying in these postings, which are on ignore for me, he can just fuck off.

Just for the record.

[halva]

People like this are OUT OF THE debate for the simple reason that the subject is not the existence of these phenomena, it is what, if anything, citizens can do about them.

I indicate at the end of this thread
http://www.911oz.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1777
what I think should be the strategy.

We are not going to have further perpetuation of the situation of the climate change "debate" where contrarians who dispute the existence of the whole problem nevertheless insist on their right to having a say in how the "non-existent" problem is to be "solved".

[jayreynolds]

So, $20 bucks to watch Cliffie rinse his mouth with wine and produce "morgellons"?

What a bunch of hooey!

I understand this grand event was a flop.
Not unpredictable.
C-ya,
Jay

[halva]

How about this? In the course of a fairly protracted exchange with Ken Caldeira (he always seems to be there to reply instantly to anybody's e-mails. When does he get time to do scientific research?) I made this remark:

"One point I make in my paper (the paper I gave recently in France) is this: "Whether legitimate distinctions can still be drawn between 'aircraft emissions' and 'spraying; is a by no means straightforward question." )

And I asked: "Would you agree with this formulation?"

His reply was: "The whole world is composed of slippery slopes."

[halva]

All this in reaction to a Caldeira lecture on You-Tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzMVfJKJK_c

[halva]

Is Caldeira on the same wavelength as Jay Michaelson?

Was there and is there anything authentic and redeemable in the peculiar mission these guys have set themselves??

Admittedly, Michaelson gave up on it, despairing, I suppose, of being able successfully to manipulate Satan.

[Lou]

FYI:


From: http://newswithviews.com/Peterson/rosalind9.htm



STOP US SENATE BILLS S2191 & S3036 - CLIMATE SECURITY ACT SHAMS




By Rosalind Peterson
July 1, 2008
NewsWithViews.com

Two climate security act shams, U.S. Senate Bills S2191 and S3036, were debated on the floor of the U.S. Senate between June 2-6, 2008. Senators Boxer and Lieberman will be bringing this legislation forward, in the near future, once they have the sixty votes needed pass either one of them.

These bills are designed to sell out the health and welfare of the people of the United States in order to establish a national and international Cap & Trade Money Market Scheme, and under Section 6E, “…initiate programs to “mitigate” the impacts of any unavoidable global climate change…” These bills have nothing to do with “Climate Security”. They are designed to fleece the American people out of $Billions of their tax dollars to support a questionable “market scheme of carbon trading” by selling “emission allowances” to polluters to allow them to pollute more in the future. (cont.)

[halva]

Precisely this point is made in a new booklet (at present being drafted) to be brought out by ATTAC in Europe in time for the European Social Forum at Malmo in Sweden in September.

[Lou]

Now this is the way to curb C02 polluters, with tight controls and not with the stupidity of carbon credits.
_________________________________________________

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/07/01/10017/

Published on Tuesday, July 1, 2008 by Environment News Service

Georgia Judge Yanks Coal Power Permit on Climate Concerns

ATLANTA - A Fulton County Superior Court judge today issued a decision that blocks construction of the first coal-burning power plant proposed in Georgia in more than 20 years. The judge ruled that the new plant must limit its emissions of the heat-trapping gas carbon dioxide.

This is the first time any court has applied to an industrial source an April 2007 ruling of the U.S. Supreme Court recognizing that carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas responsible for global warming, is a pollutant under the federal Clean Air Act.(cont.)

____________________________________

Wow_someone with common sense, I like this judge 'Thelma Wyatt Cummings Moore', this country needs more real public servants like her in my opinion. :cool:

[halva]

What is ironic is that the most powerful and convincing crits of the French nuclear power industry, of the lies and the lunacy surrounding it, that I have seen, have come from American journalists who are climate change "sceptics" and appear to be working for the coal industry. They have a mercilessness that is unfortunately lacking from ecologist critics.

[Lou]

What is ironic is that the most powerful and convincing crits of the French nuclear power industry, of the lies and the lunacy surrounding it, that I have seen, have come from American journalists who are climate change "sceptics" and appear to be working for the coal industry. They have a mercilessness that is unfortunately lacking from ecologist critics.

You must remember Wayne, our media is controlled by the biases of external political influences with regard to major issues such as other countries nuclear energy programs and or climate change, I don't believe that it's ironic at all to see the contradictions by American journalist / media as you point out, it is a glaring fact we contend with here every day, day in day out, 24 / 7.

Sorting out the truth in the news that we are fed daily in this country is a never ending problem unless your one of those people that believe everything that is reported on is correct and you never question it, I think those people are called Republicans, fortunately I'm an open minded Democrat teetering on the edge of becoming an Independent. :D

[Lou]

The messenger that the politicians would silence.
__________________________________________

http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?ID=6995&Method=Full

Hansen: Oil, Coal Execs Should be Tried for "Crimes Against Humanity"
Twenty Years Later: Tipping Points Near on Global Warming

By James Hansen

My presentation today is exactly 20 years after my 23 June 1988 testimony, which alerted the public that global warming was underway. There are striking similarities between then and now, but one big difference.

Again a wide gap has developed between what is understood about global warming by the relevant scientific community and what is known by policymakers and the public. Now, as then, frank assessment of scientific data yields conclusions that are shocking to the body politic. Now, as then, I can assert that these conclusions have a certainty exceeding 99 percent.

The difference is that now we have used up all slack in the schedule for actions needed to defuse the global warming time bomb. The next President and Congress must define a course next year in which the United States exerts leadership commensurate with our responsibility for the present dangerous situation.

Otherwise it will become impractical to constrain atmospheric carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas produced in burning fossil fuels, to a level that prevents the climate system from passing tipping points that lead to disastrous climate changes that spiral dynamically out of humanity's control.

Changes needed to preserve creation, the planet on which civilization developed, are clear. But the changes have been blocked by special interests, focused on short-term profits, who hold sway in Washington and other capitals. (cont,)

[halva]

I don't thnk it is so simple that politicians "would silence" Hansen. Hansen is getting a hearing, at least by the media. And there are a lot of politicians who are talking about climate change. There was a big international meeting of the Socialist International here in Athens last week (no input, of course from people like us. It was held in a big luxury hotel, with tight security) where they hardly talked about anything else.

We are the ones who are being silenced.

I made a related point last week in an intervention at a press conference to discuss the anti-nuclear film "The Nuclear Comeback" by Justin Pemberton, which won a prize at the Ecofilm festival in Rhodes, Greece.

Pemberton argues of course that the climate change problem "is being used" by the nuclear industry to justify their comeback. But is it really "being used". Did not the climate change "debate" largely EMERGE from the same laboratories that worked on nuclear weapons and other similar "defence" related projects. Not just the Hansen side of the debate but BOTH sides of the debate: the "sceptics" too. And it is a debate which is perfectly tailored to keep people's attention diverted. This is not a pro-"sceptic" position. The "sceptics" are worse offenders.

I think it is time to organize an international conference entitled: "The nuclear comeback, geoengineering: two by-products of 'climate change'?'" (and both with a related "military" aspect).

[halva]

Take a look at this video:

http://www.enouranois.gr/video/saintesenglishmikro.wmv

[halva]

“Operation Global Cooling”

April 15, 2008 —Not long ago I was on a plane from LA to Denver. It was about 7:30 AM Mountain Standard Time. As often happens in this time of deep climate disruption our plane was violently shaken by turbulence. However, this turbulence was not “normal”. We had in fact just flown through the jet wake of a huge tanker plane. We had just survived a near collision in the cold morning skies above the Rocky Mountains so white in the morning light, blanketed with unprecedented depths of snow, which had fallen on the slopes below. I looked out of my window directly into a thick plume of dense aerosol, which was spraying out from huge “shower heads” behind the offending tanker.

I, like many of you, have been hearing about and seeing “chemtrails” in the skies above the United States and Europe for several years but this is the first time I had actually seen one of the delivery systems up close.

Just a week before this flight I had received reports from contacts in Germany of a German Air Force pilot who had blown the whistle regarding an aerial spraying campaign in the skies above Germany. He told a German Evening News program that the goal of this high altitude aerosol-spraying program is to counterbalance the greenhouse effect. The pilot claimed that the atmospheric spraying he and his cohorts are engaged in is a “cooperative effort” with the United States and member nations of the European Union.


The participants spray an ionically polymer-bound brew of hyperfine quartz dust, alumina silicate, sulfate*, silver nitrate and a silica polymer, which helps the “chemtrails/contrails” to stabilize in the tropopause region of our atmosphere between the troposphere and the stratosphere. There, for a time, the lingering aerosol reflects sunlight into space. Then the ionically charged, nucleating particulate attracts water vapor from the air to form clouds. Voila! Torrents of rain or snow fall to the Earth below.

I am told that the most internationally acceptable name for this latest endeavor of the global military/industrial complex is “Operation Global Cooling” also "geo-engineering." If it hadn’t been for that one German pilot going public, who would have lifted the veil? Now an explanation for the sudden drop in global temperatures and other weather related disruptions this past winter begins to take shape. Unfortunately we can also begin to understand the negative side effects of this program as well.


If a similar program was done with real intelligence instead of the desperate excess of “Operation Global Cooling”, it might actually help bring back a symbolence of balance to the atmosphere of our troubled world. The emergency in our atmosphere is precipitous and requires extremely intelligent and well-considered efforts toward remediation. It is within our power to do this properly. It is also within our power to implement extremely efficient, cost effective and non-polluting alternative methods of power generation that will put an end to the politics of scarcity created by the myopic greed of the global corporate hegemony.

Who has oversight of “Operation Global Cooling”? It seems that the information about it is being suppressed by a tiny, exclusive group of executives, senators, representatives, parliamentarians, prime ministers, chancellors, premiers and presidents. These servants of a small, delusional “elite” seem to think that the most important question to be asked regarding this covert attempt to cover multinational corporate liability for the unfolding global atmospheric catastrophe is which corporation gets the contract to build the aerosol spraying tankers: Boeing or Airbus?

No matter what the pundits say, the handwriting is in the skies above us in the form of strange grid patterns of chemtrails/contrails that often obscure the sunshine even at midday. That script bears a surreal, new, chemically induced, refractive iridescence many of us have observed coloring our skies without explanation.

Right now we need to start asking real questions. Why has there been unprecedented snowfall in the Rockies and other regions throughout the Northern Hemisphere this last winter? Why is the winter of 2008 is so prolonged? What is causing torrential downpours and blizzards in April?

Is “Operation Global Cooling” causing widespread flooding? Is it a primary cause of the 40 degree Fahrenheit temperature differentials now common between weather fronts? Those same “weather fronts” are causing monster storms, tornadoes and winds. Does the international corporate hegemony comprehend or care about any of these side effects? Do they even care about the loss of much of this year’s crop of winter wheat? The “surplus” cupboards are almost completely empty worldwide.

Hundreds of millions of poor people throughout the world are finding it more and more difficult to feed their families. There are bloody food riots breaking out across the globe. There are whole regions of countries going into chaos over empty breadbaskets.

The piles of storm caused rubble grow higher by the month from Tulsa to Hamburg, from Los Angeles to Beijing, from Birmingham to Delhi. We the People are expected to remain silently subservient to those who promise a bountiful future while they parasitize and disrupt our entire planet.

If the “greenhouse effect” is real, then why is it suddenly so cold? The answer is simple. Just look up. The confessions of guilt are signed in our skies.

Adam Trombly

[siegmund]

Wayne, have you been sleeping for months?

The German no name pilot spoke of Düppel (engl. chaff). Hahaha.


The participants spray an ionically polymer-bound brew of hyperfine quartz dust, alumina silicate, sulfate*, silver nitrate and a silica polymer ...

Reminds me of the top copy & paste internet chemist Jim Phelps.

One thing is clear: Chemmies & chemistry is like cat & dog.

Sleep well.

[halva]

Fuck off Siegface. I don't know what you have posted about, and I don't care.

[halva]

Ken Caldeira has declared himself in favour of unilateral US nuclear disarmament. What do debunkers have to say about that?

[Lou]

I don't thnk it is so simple that politicians "would silence" Hansen. Hansen is getting a hearing, at least by the media. And there are a lot of politicians who are talking about climate change. There was a big international meeting of the Socialist International here in Athens last week (no input, of course from people like us. It was held in a big luxury hotel, with tight security) where they hardly talked about anything else.

We are the ones who are being silenced.

I made a related point last week in an intervention at a press conference to discuss the anti-nuclear film "The Nuclear Comeback" by Justin Pemberton, which won a prize at the Ecofilm festival in Rhodes, Greece.

Pemberton argues of course that the climate change problem "is being used" by the nuclear industry to justify their comeback. But is it really "being used". Did not the climate change "debate" largely EMERGE from the same laboratories that worked on nuclear weapons and other similar "defence" related projects. Not just the Hansen side of the debate but BOTH sides of the debate: the "sceptics" too. And it is a debate which is perfectly tailored to keep people's attention diverted. This is not a pro-"sceptic" position. The "sceptics" are worse offenders.

I think it is time to organize an international conference entitled: "The nuclear comeback, geoengineering: two by-products of 'climate change'?'" (and both with a related "military" aspect).

The fact that the Bush administration has tried to silence 'Jim Hanson' in order to appease there long time friends in the energy industry no doubt has put the censorship of the truth issue in even more of a public light, in that regard I guess we should be thankful that the status quo politicians and their greedy oil, gas and coal energy chorines agenda of suppression and propaganda has become so transparent thanks to people like 'Jim Hanson' who refuse to kneel before them.

I agree that "We" are the ones being silenced or at the least, not being allowed to be heard, obviously to overcome the selective defenses of the politicians that's why we have to ban together in large numbers in order to be represented on issues, for many of us, GRASSROOTS movements are our only viable option to lobby our elected officials since we do not have the luxury of being able to afford our own special interest lobbyist firms as the major energy companies do.

The more that "We" openly discuss the climate change issues and the reasons for it and what must be done about it, the more pressed and desperate those in the pro-skeptic position will become, like cornered rats they will try every angle of escape until forced to confront the inevitable truth_and accept it.
____________________________

If you have not already seen this,.....

http://www.climateark.org/shared/reader/welcome.aspx?linkid=95286&keybold=climate%20science%20Hansen

Censoring Science: Inside the Political Attack on Dr. James Hansen and the Truth of Global Warming
Source: Copyright 2008, Democracy Now
Date: March 21, 2008

[halva]

The more that "We" openly discuss the climate change issues and the reasons for it and what must be done about it, the more pressed and desperate those in the pro-skeptic position will become, like cornered rats they will try every angle of escape until forced to confront the inevitable truth_and accept it.


Some of them are already flirting with the role of defending geoengineering schemes.

[siegmund]

Fuck off Siegface. I don't know what you have posted about, and I don't care.

Just for the record. Wayne Hall, celebrating the other side of Greek culture.

[halva]

Ignoring debunkers is not a strong enough stance, and it is inappropriate to make debunker interruptions the subject of discussion among posters of good will.

Debunkers used to be able to rely on gaining support from other antisocial elements posting here, who would respond to them. But that hasn't been happening lately.

[siegmund]

Wayne, why so confused?

The subject was not ignoring debunkers but your bad manners.

[halva]

Croatia Chemtrails Report
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpwwKHAjPcg&NR=1

[Lou]

Wayne_don't let the know it all debunkers bother you, we know that they are full of themselves_ otherwise known as "SHIT".

These NPD types would have everyone believe that the chaff used today by the military is 100% harmless as the Aluminum strips chaff of the 1940's and 1950's, they do not tell people that the bulk of chaff used today by the military is made from fiberglass that is coated with Aluminum and silica and when deployed it is dispersed in massive clouds of very fine particles that are in no way conducive to human health or our environment.

Have a look at this old 1998 GAO report on the effects of chaff.

The Debunkers have their heads up their asses and show it every time they open their know it all mouths, they know (maybe not) just as the military has for years that the use of fine fiberglass chaff has adverse effects not only on the environment but on humans as well but they have kept right on using it anyway because, they can, just as they can and no doubt do many other things I'm sure that are even worse with regard to our environment and our well being. ( If it would just kill off the Right Wingnuts and Debunking fools I would not complain but this military tech they are playing with unfortunately effects us all.)

______________________________________

http://www.fas.org/man/gao/nsiad-98-219.htm

Environmental Protection: DOD Management Issues Related to Chaff (Letter
Report, 09/22/98, GAO/NSIAD-98-219).

Pursuant to a congressional request, GAO reviewed the Department of
Defense's (DOD) use of chaff and its long-term effects on the
environment, focusing on: (1) the extent and locations of chaff use; (2)
its reported known and potential effects; and (3) the initiatives being
taken or considered to address chaff's unintended effects.

GAO noted that: (1) chaff is used worldwide in conjunction with military
training, testing, and other assigned missions; (2) in fiscal year (FY)
1997, the Air Force reported using about 1.8 million bundles worldwide,
Navy and Marine Corps aircraft used more than 354,000 bundles and 593
rolls, and Navy combat ships used about 10,000 large bundles; (3) DOD
records indicate that FY 1998 inventories include more than 37 million
bundles and more than 141,000 rolls of chaff; (4) the Air Force holds
about 77 percent of the bundles, while the Navy and Marine Corps hold
all the rolls; (5) the Army has some mission needs but possesses and
uses little chaff in peacetime training or testing; (6) while DOD
components report that chaff is an effective means of defense for
aircraft, ships, and related weapons systems, DOD and other agencies
have identified some unintended and potential side effects of chaff; (7)
chaff can affect safety by interfering with air traffic control radar;
(8) chaff can also affect weather radar observations and the operation
of friendly radar systems, especially when vehicles stir up chaff that
has settled on the ground; (9) the services have a number of ongoing
initiatives to address concerns about the unintended and potential
effects of chaff; (10) for example, DOD has entered into or is
negotiating agreements with other federal agencies to address issues
related to commercial air safety, weather forecasting, and environmental
impacts on public lands; (11) also, the Navy has started a program to
develop degradable chaff that is estimated to cost about 40 percent more
than the current chaff; (12) while intended as beneficial, the Navy has
not yet defined the operational and environmental benefits that could
result from this program; (13) notwithstanding DOD's actions, some
concerns continue to be raised by the public and federal agencies about
the potentially harmful or undesirable effects of chaff on the
environment; (14) also, some of DOD's studies cite additional areas
where questions have been raised about the unintended effects of chaff;
(15) DOD has not systematically followed up on these questions or on the
recommendations of these reports to determine whether they merit
additional review; and (16) DOD continues to retain lead-based chaff in
its inventory even though this type of chaff has not been manufactured
since 1987 and is reportedly no longer in use.
___________________________________________

Can we consider CHAFF to be within the definition of Chemtrail's, I would say, absoultly we can !

___________________________________________

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=US1995009407&DISPLAY=DESC

METAL-COATED SUBSTRATE ARTICLES RESPONSIVE TO ELECTROMAGNETIC RADIATION, AND METHOD OF MAKING AND USING THE SAME

Excerpt

"environmental concerns over the effects of chaff pose a serious and growing threat to peacetime training in its use.

"Considering the environmental impact of chaff material usage, in warfare as well as peacetime training applications, it is recognized that conventional chaff materials can measurably affect the electromagnetic environment long after their defense utility has passed. It also is recognized that long-term physical health risks may result from the persistence of the glass fibers which serve as the substrate for standard aluminized chaff materials.

In this respect, the persistence of aluminized glass fibers after settling to the ground and the perception of respiratory or digestive hazards of these materials has limited the open air dissemination of chaff for testing and training. Ranchers and environmentalists, particularly in the midwestern U.S., have objected to chaff because it is carried uncontrollably by the wind and settles on populated areas or on land grazed by wildlife and livestock. Additionally, the United States FAA has experienced difficulties in monitoring air traffic because of the electromagnetic noise associated with drifting chaff.

It would therefore be a substantial advance in the art to provide a chaff material which variously is characterized by a reduced settling rate and increased hang time, as compared with conventional chaff materials, overcomes the persistence of adverse electrical characteristics which is a major disadvantage of conventional chaff materials, and is of enhanced environmentally acceptability in relation to conventional chaff materials."

_______________________________

As for the NPD debunkers like heir 'Siggie', once again he has shown his complete ignorance in understanding a topic "CHAFF" which he would use in downplaying the Chemtrail issue, obviously he does not get it that CHAFF when used represents exactly one form of the Chemtrail's (spraying) operations, and he call us STUPID, what a DOPE,:rolleyes:..........Ha ! :D

[halva]

Lou I didn't know that Sieg was talking about chaff in his debunking intervention but your comments seem to be right,.

[halva]

It is at least in part because of the activity of debunkers that chemtrails activists often lose their determination and, like the young man in the Croatian television excerpt to which I provided a link above, end up saying that they have "lost their belief" in people, that the public "is stupid" and "deserves to be sprayed".

However, any debunker who takes satisfaction from achieving this type of reaction should bear in mind that chemtrails are merely one subject in an overall tableau of issues for which time is running our for THEIR side much more than it is for ours.

[Lou]

Lou I didn't know that Sieg was talking about chaff in his debunking intervention but your comments seem to be right,.

Yes_'seiggie' is an IDIOT, his own words confirm that fact.

Quote: seiggie

"The German no name pilot spoke of Düppel (engl. chaff). Hahaha."

Oh yeah 'seiggie',....Hahaha,...... it's you that is way behind the learning curve with regard to what exactly constitutes Chemtrail spraying / military aerosol operations, etc.

You see Wayne, it's IDIOT DEBUNKERS like 'seiggie' here that prove their ignorance consistently when trying to dispel Chemtrail spraying operations because they can't do it because their so intent on using anything, such as the military's use of chaff in their debunking efforts (stupid move) when the very use of fine chaff equals Chemtrail spraying, e.g. it not being normal contrails in any way but bulk fiberglass / coated material dispensed from military aircraft at altitude.

Next the debunkers will be saying CHAFF is different from Chemtrail's, exactly how I don't know because Chemtrail's are materials that are dispensed from military aircraft and whether it's fine fiberglass chaff or some other materials it in no way can be seen as anything but a Chemtrail aerosol spraying operation.

I don't understand what part of NOT NORMAL CONTRAILS these FOOLS don't get because every time the spraying takes place we can see it and identify it, one does not need to be an expert to see the difference between normal contrails and Chemtrail's, the difference is obvious.

I believe it's the hope of the debunkers that people will loose interest in the issue and no doubt many do but there are just as many coming along to replace those that have tired of it for various reasons, no doubt some of those reasons being the 'seiggies' and 'Reynolds' types who still attack those that are naive regarding the subject.

Those who have been involved with the Chemtrail issue from the beginning know how the debunkers work and the debunkers know that they will not get very far with "Us" using their old worn out tricks because their so transparent to "Us", there old and loud battle cry of "Chemtrail's are a HOAX" has lost it's credibility, if it ever had any, because little bits of truth keep coming to light as with the military's use of very fine fiberglass filaments that are coated with Aluminum and silica, just what else the military is spraying remains a question but to be sure they are spraying something, be it for communication purposes, weather modification in conjunction with the use of HARRP or other secret DOD research and development programs.

It's a certainty that some people will become disillusioned with the whole Chemtrail subject and walk away from it, that's their choice but there will be others taking their place as long as the Chemtrail spraying continues, of course there are the old did hards like ourselves that hang in there no matter what. :D

[halva]

I don't know what people think about the idea of attending climate change conferences like this. This particular conference was posted by a chemtrails group but I don't think there would be much point in isolated invidual chemtrails activists going to it. An organized and prenegotiated presence might serve some purpose.

The Northeast Climate Confluence
July 30 – Aug 3rd, 2008
Epworth Camp & Retreat Center in High Falls, NY
www.climateconfluence.org
Cost: Cheap! Sliding scale to be determined.

Confluence: a mixing of different streams or weather patterns that
flow together and become stronger, resulting in a series of storms.

The Northeast Climate Confluence is a week-long coming-together of
movements, groups, and individuals to strategize for action,
strengthen our relationships, and share ideas and skills. The same
system that wages a daily war on our communities is poised to destroy
our very life blood: the earth, the water, our food, and our culture.
The power to stop this destruction already flows through our roots,
and by combining our knowledge and energy we will create real
solutions and decrease our dependence on the institutions that are
attacking the planet and all life.

At the confluence we will slow down, take the time to learn from each
other, and prepare for the action that we all know we must take. The
confluence is not the end-goal of our organizing, it is the
beginning. It is calm before the storms.

There will be workshops, performances, trainings and strategy
sessions about the issues affecting our communities and our planet
from prisons and police brutality, to food sovereignty, energy
security, healthcare, and disaster relief. Together we will plan a
day of direct action in coordination with similar gatherings around
the world.

Climate Change is about more than just carbon in the atmosphere. It
directly affects people's lives. The communities hardest hit by
climate disasters are already the most impacted by the injustice that
causes environmental devastation: indigenous people, women, LGBTQ
folk, people of color, youth, elders, people with disabilities, and
the working class.

People of all ages and backgrounds will have something to offer to
the confluence! Young people will play a particularly important role
during the Youth Track, a set of workshops organized by and for youth
to empower them to make positive change in their communities and the
world. Childcare for younger children will also be provided and
parents are encouraged to come.

We'll also have a lot of fun! Enjoy and share music, art, and good
food while meeting people from all over the Northeast. Epworth is a
beautiful outdoor space with lots of room for camping, and tents and
gear will be available for those who don't have them. There are
wheelchair accessible indoor spaces and beds as well. Donations of
any size encouraged to cover costs. No one turned away for lack of
funds.

The more streams that flow together this Summer, the stronger our
current will become! The confluence is nothing without you and your
community. Now is the time to start organizing locally to cooperate
for transportation, food, and logistics to bring together activists
from all over the Northeast. Get in touch with the local contact in
your area, or if there isn't one, become one!

5 Easy Ways to Get Involved!

1) Organize a local Meeting
Forward this announcement on to local groups in your area who you
think would be interested in coming to the Confluence. We want to
work with a wide variety of social and environmental justice groups,
so contact feminist groups, anti-racist groups, indigenous groups,
prison activists, anti-war organizations, queer groups, everyone! Set
up a time and invite these groups to come together and discuss how to
get everyone in your area to the Confluence. Even if not everyone can
come, getting all these groups in the same room will strengthen local
organizing in your town.

2) Throw a fundraiser!
We are working to make sure that everyone can come to this event
regardless of their background or how much money they have. This
means we have to do a lot of fundraising! Have a benefit party, ask
local businesses for donations and do a silent auction, etc. Get in
touch with us for more fundraising ideas!

3) Offer a workshop or performance
Let us know what you'd like to do at the confluence. There will be
lots of room for workshops and presentations on a wide variety of
topics from basic skills like herbal medicine, to movement theory.
Contact: education@climateconfluence.org to offer to facilitate a
workshop, presentation, or strategy session, and contact:
evan@riotfolk.org if you're a musician or artist looking to share
what you do.

4) Join a working group.
There are several working groups that are organizing various
different logistical aspects of the gathering, and we need lots of
help. Contact us to get involved in the Youth Track, Direct Action
(planning for creative actions before, during, and after the event!),
Fundraising, Logistics (food, medical, etc), Site (construction,
gear, building toilets, etc.), Communications (media, outreach,
networking), Content (workshops, performances, etc.)

5) Tell everyone you know!
This is a completely grassroots gathering. There won't be any ads for
it on TV. So it's up to all of us to get the word out. Forward this e-
mail to people you think might be interested, but more importantly
talk to people in person! Invite your friends and family. Get off the
internet and go visit some meetings of local groups in your area and
talk to them about the Confluence. We can send you postcards and
flyers to hand out, just get in touch!

LOCAL CONFLUENCE CONTACTS


Massachusetts
Boston-area: evan@riotfolk.org, 978-852-6457
Western Mass: birdsnest@riseup.net, 413-863-9197
Worcester-area: rduffy@clarku.edu, 541-292-8018

New York
New York City:
Westchester County: jonathon.booth@gmail.com, 914-522-0822
Albany-area: ucanfindme@graffiti.net
Hudson Valley: HudsonValleyClimateJustice@gmail.com

Rhode Island: mercury@riseup.net, 401-270-0315

Connecticut: cwistomoweina@gmail.com

Maine: Jessie@risingtidenorthamerica.org, 202-215-1720

Eastern Canada: healingtheearth@resist.ca

[halva]

http://halva.proboards46.com is no longer closed.

[siegmund]

Lou, I will help you:

Aerosols are sprayed whereas chaff is discharged.
Don't mix up.

Do you know whereby one can recognize chemmies?
They distort names pathologically.

Do you know the master of distortion?
JP

[Lou]

Lou, I will help you:

Aerosols are sprayed whereas chaff is discharged.
Don't mix up.

Do you know whereby one can recognize chemmies?
They distort names pathologically.

Do you know the master of distortion?
JP

Ha,..:D......your a funny little guy 'seiggie', if it were not for the humor you bring with your brand of debunker spin you would be a totally useless ASSHOLE just like your buddy JR.:rolleyes:

Since you add nothing relevant whatsoever to the discussion I have to agree with 'Wayne' in telling you to PISS OFF, that would probably be the best contribution that you could make to this thread, thanks up front for that and don't let the door hit you in the ass, etc, etc. :D

[halva]

Put him on ignore Lou. There is no need for anybody to have to monitor what these conceited and self-congratulatory mannikins think they know.

Let Jeff Reynolds/May/Socrates argue with him, and then all of them can be put on ignore.

[Lou]

I don't know what people think about the idea of attending climate change conferences like this. This particular conference was posted by a chemtrails group but I don't think there would be much point in isolated invidual chemtrails activists going to it. An organized and prenegotiated presence might serve some purpose.

The Northeast Climate Confluence
July 30 – Aug 3rd, 2008
Epworth Camp & Retreat Center in High Falls, NY
www.climateconfluence.org
Cost: Cheap! Sliding scale to be determined.

Confluence: a mixing of different streams or weather patterns that
flow together and become stronger, resulting in a series of storms.

The Northeast Climate Confluence is a week-long coming-together of
movements, groups, and individuals to strategize for action,
strengthen our relationships, and share ideas and skills. The same
system that wages a daily war on our communities is poised to destroy
our very life blood: the earth, the water, our food, and our culture.
The power to stop this destruction already flows through our roots,
and by combining our knowledge and energy we will create real
solutions and decrease our dependence on the institutions that are
attacking the planet and all life.

At the confluence we will slow down, take the time to learn from each
other, and prepare for the action that we all know we must take. The
confluence is not the end-goal of our organizing, it is the
beginning. It is calm before the storms.

There will be workshops, performances, trainings and strategy
sessions about the issues affecting our communities and our planet
from prisons and police brutality, to food sovereignty, energy
security, healthcare, and disaster relief. Together we will plan a
day of direct action in coordination with similar gatherings around
the world.

Climate Change is about more than just carbon in the atmosphere. It
directly affects people's lives. The communities hardest hit by
climate disasters are already the most impacted by the injustice that
causes environmental devastation: indigenous people, women, LGBTQ
folk, people of color, youth, elders, people with disabilities, and
the working class.

People of all ages and backgrounds will have something to offer to
the confluence! Young people will play a particularly important role
during the Youth Track, a set of workshops organized by and for youth
to empower them to make positive change in their communities and the
world. Childcare for younger children will also be provided and
parents are encouraged to come.

We'll also have a lot of fun! Enjoy and share music, art, and good
food while meeting people from all over the Northeast. Epworth is a
beautiful outdoor space with lots of room for camping, and tents and
gear will be available for those who don't have them. There are
wheelchair accessible indoor spaces and beds as well. Donations of
any size encouraged to cover costs. No one turned away for lack of
funds.

The more streams that flow together this Summer, the stronger our
current will become! The confluence is nothing without you and your
community. Now is the time to start organizing locally to cooperate
for transportation, food, and logistics to bring together activists
from all over the Northeast. Get in touch with the local contact in
your area, or if there isn't one, become one!

5 Easy Ways to Get Involved!

1) Organize a local Meeting
Forward this announcement on to local groups in your area who you
think would be interested in coming to the Confluence. We want to
work with a wide variety of social and environmental justice groups,
so contact feminist groups, anti-racist groups, indigenous groups,
prison activists, anti-war organizations, queer groups, everyone! Set
up a time and invite these groups to come together and discuss how to
get everyone in your area to the Confluence. Even if not everyone can
come, getting all these groups in the same room will strengthen local
organizing in your town.

2) Throw a fundraiser!
We are working to make sure that everyone can come to this event
regardless of their background or how much money they have. This
means we have to do a lot of fundraising! Have a benefit party, ask
local businesses for donations and do a silent auction, etc. Get in
touch with us for more fundraising ideas!

3) Offer a workshop or performance
Let us know what you'd like to do at the confluence. There will be
lots of room for workshops and presentations on a wide variety of
topics from basic skills like herbal medicine, to movement theory.
Contact: education@climateconfluence.org to offer to facilitate a
workshop, presentation, or strategy session, and contact:
evan@riotfolk.org if you're a musician or artist looking to share
what you do.

4) Join a working group.
There are several working groups that are organizing various
different logistical aspects of the gathering, and we need lots of
help. Contact us to get involved in the Youth Track, Direct Action
(planning for creative actions before, during, and after the event!),
Fundraising, Logistics (food, medical, etc), Site (construction,
gear, building toilets, etc.), Communications (media, outreach,
networking), Content (workshops, performances, etc.)

5) Tell everyone you know!
This is a completely grassroots gathering. There won't be any ads for
it on TV. So it's up to all of us to get the word out. Forward this e-
mail to people you think might be interested, but more importantly
talk to people in person! Invite your friends and family. Get off the
internet and go visit some meetings of local groups in your area and
talk to them about the Confluence. We can send you postcards and
flyers to hand out, just get in touch!

LOCAL CONFLUENCE CONTACTS


Massachusetts
Boston-area: evan@riotfolk.org, 978-852-6457
Western Mass: birdsnest@riseup.net, 413-863-9197
Worcester-area: rduffy@clarku.edu, 541-292-8018

New York
New York City:
Westchester County: jonathon.booth@gmail.com, 914-522-0822
Albany-area: ucanfindme@graffiti.net
Hudson Valley: HudsonValleyClimateJustice@gmail.com

Rhode Island: mercury@riseup.net, 401-270-0315

Connecticut: cwistomoweina@gmail.com

Maine: Jessie@risingtidenorthamerica.org, 202-215-1720

Eastern Canada: healingtheearth@resist.ca

We are aware of the "Climate Confluence" that will be taking place in New York, state but it is to far for us to travel, plus we have other commitments that are keeping us home at this time, i.e. remodeling mostly but we are not traveling much due to the high fuel cost.

Putting a presentation together for an event like this takes some coordination, planing and then there is the logistics to deal with, travel and lodging cost, meals, etc, with fuel cost at $4:09 plus per gallon and everything costing more these days, we are trying to conserve because our income has not gone up to match he increasing cost of living, something I think a lot of people are really feeling this year.

We have noticed a huge difference in the number of tourist and even summer residents who are spending much less this year on fuel for their boats, 4x4's, RV's, etc, the high fuel cost is having a dramatic impact with regard to individual personal economy, people are counting every penny and trying to stretch it as wisely as they can.

I'm not sure what is going to happen this coming winter but it does not look good, fuel oil prices are through the roof right now as is LP gas prices, I think we are going to see something of an energy crisis this winter because many people can barely afford fuel oil and LP gas at last years prices, if they triple as predicted by this fall I fear it will be a rough winter for a lot of people.

We heat with wood and we have three cords put back that we did not use last winter and seven more cords coming, that will see us through the winter with three or better cords left over, our price per cord is $200.00 which works out to about $1400.00 to heat the house all winter which isn't bad compared to heating with fuel oil, LP gas or electricity which is going to cost the average home owner roughly between $6000.00 and $8500.00 to heat there homes this coming winter and as I mentioned, peoples incomes remained the same while everything else has gone up_me thinks hard times are coming for sure. :rolleyes::mad:

[halva]

http://www.dontchemtrailmebro.com/docs_dctmb/swartztrails.html

Schwarzenegger's Office ask to discuss "Jet Trails"
w/ Deborah Whitman of Environmental Voices July 19, 20

Posted JULY 20, 2008 DCTMB

July 19, 2008

Rose wrote:

Hi All:

Wanted to give you some very hopeful news. Deborah Whitman with "Environmental Voices," sent me this on Friday, July 18th (please see her message below). She had just attended an EPA panel discussion on "Climate Change" at the Capitol in Sacramento. She has been a tireless, fearless voice for our skies and concerns around these unregulated experimental weather modification programs. She received a phone call from Governor Schwarzenegger's staff requesting a meeting to discuss concerns around "jet trails".

I have also heard from another very reliable source that Schwarzenegger's office had asked the California Air Resources Board to "check into the chemtrail issue and whether or not they are toxic." Mrs. Whitman believes that it is vital that we contact the Governor's office in the next week and let him know just how concerned we are about these unregulated aerosol spraying programs and how it is effecting our health and our environment (please see at the end of this email for contact numbers).

Bless Us All,
Rose

Deborah's message:

"I'm so excited. Today at EPA went excellent. I made great contacts. I used to work with the man that is now setting up the Climate Team. I gave him all the handouts I had and I will be meeting with him and other ARB staff on these issues.

I heard the President and Governor were in Redding today looking at fire damage. Thank God that you guys are getting some attention now. It's about time.

Send your e-mail to the Governor and the the Head of EPA. Their e-mail addresses are on their websites. Have everyone send their own letters as well. Follow them up with well written professional looking letters.

Contact numbers:

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-558-3160
Email link: http://gov.ca.gov/interact

Linda S. Adams/Secretary for Environmental Protection
1001 I Street
P.O. Box 2815
Sacramento, CA 95812-2815
California Environmental Protection Agency, http://www.calepa.ca.gov
General Public Contact, cepacomm@calepa.ca.gov (916) 323-2514

Air Resources Board Staff
Mary D. Nichols/Chair
Contact: Cornetta Thompson
(916) 445-4383/ Fax (916) 327-5748

Below is my letter I wrote to our governor. It is crucial that the Governor hears from as many voices from our part of the state as possible.

Dear Governor Schwarzenegger:

We here in the northern most part of our state, have been watching with great concern these unregulated experimental weather modification programs which have been conducted over our heads. We encourage you to investigate and take a seriously look at the well documented evidence that these programs have seriously contaminated our air, water, soils. We are concerned what breathing these chemicals have done to our health and to our climate.

There is great evidence that spraying tons of aluminum oxide and barium into our atmosphere is also creating drought conditions, which can only exacerbate our already severe fire dangers.

"According to the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Co., the only way to form artificial clouds in warm dry air is to introduce enough particulates into the atmosphere to attract and accrete all available moisture into visible vapor. If repeated often enough, the resulting rainless haze can lead to drought."

"In a May 2000 draft report submitted to the International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), an expert panel chosen from among 3,000 atmospheric scientists, concluded that Teller's scheme might work. But the IPCC warned against unpredictable upsets of the atmosphere. The panel also warned against angry populaces reacting to "the associated whitening of the visual appearance of the sky."

Please consider your family, your children also breathe this air. As governor you have sworn to protect this great state and its people. Please take this pledge to heart and be the kind of leader many in this state hope and pray you will be.

Sincerely,

Rose Taylor
Mt. Shasta, California

[Lou]

Yeah_read about this on another site earlier.

I was thinking how interesting it's going to be to see if the Governator 'Schwarzenegger' actually moves to do anything of substance on this or if he just passes the buck like every other state governor has when cornered on the issue, guess we will just have to wait and see how it shakes out.

The email champagne isn't going to amount to spit in my opinion, it's just going to make some one of the Governators staffers life miserable trying to answer all of the emails with some officially rubber stamped standard reply, i.e. as in (passing the buck) referring the email'er to the official Air Force position on the 'Chemtrail HOAX" issue.

But, you never know, something positive might come from it, it's just been my experience when dealing with political types that they like to pass questions that they would rather not answer on to others as fast as they can and distance themselves from anything as controversial as "Cemtrail Spraying" issue.

So,.... I'm hoping some truth ekes out from this :confused: but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it. :rolleyes:

[halva]

Chemtrail Attacks On MIllions In Europe Continue
http://rense.com/general82/sduh.htm

From: Philip Jones
To: Jeff Rense
Subject: FW: Chemtrail attacks against innocent people.

Dear Friends,

Please see the below letter written by myself to the Danish Ministry of the Environment, to which I have to date yet to receive a reply. If you feel it appropriate, please feel free to post on your relative sites. It is short and to the point and will not take up too much room.

Only those living up here in the North Of Europe can understand the level of Diabolical Totalitarianism exercised by the Danish, Swedish and Norwegian Governments.

I read about how in the UK, US and Canada, the Tax Burdens and costs of living being imposed are becoming intolerable. `Newsflash`, they,ve been that here for twenty years. Where else does one have to pay tax on one's tax. That's right, we pay `Sales Tax` or VAT on our property tax, as well as on everything else. Daily our skies are chequered with Chemtrails, Corporate Fascist Monopolies dictate ridiculous price rises unseen anywhere else in the west at any rate, and knowing they have zero competition, brazenly dismiss any complaints or queries. Extra quarterly payments are demanded as they shift from payment in advance, to payment in arrears and back again (Five `quarterley payments in a 12 month period). All I hear is the reportedly `Happy Danes` resignedly mouthing the words, "There's nothing you can do about it".

They are Chemtrailing the population to death, and no one here wants to evn know about it, such is the level of indoctrination.

I want to get the message out to the rest of the world what is going on here, as any platform for dissenters is denied. Please post.

Philip Jones

Subject: Chemtrail attacks against innocent people.
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to you regarding the unprovoked Chemical Attacks being leveled against the people of Denmark and around the world by the International Industrial Military Complex.

I do not intend to write at length here as experience has shown that when dealing with Danish Officialdom, it is usually a total waste of time to do so as response is usually not forthcoming. Suffice to say that if you are not aware of the true nature of these attacks on innocent civilians, then it is your duty to investigate the matter. If you are aware and do realise that the chemical and metal bi products contained in these` Air Dispersed` Chemtrails contain Barium, which is lethal and toxic to all known life.

Can you go home and sleep at night knowing that small children are having their lives destroyed. That our food and water supplies are being deliberately poluted and contaminated. That our brain capacity is being diminished and our minds left open to outside programming via the HAARP facilty in Alaska and it's many substations particularly throughout Nato countries.

If this all sounds like just another `Conspiracy Theory`, I challenge you to read the attached documentation. If you yourself have children, it's time you looked up in the Sky and noticed the strange long cloud trails, crossing each other in Grid Like patterns on an almost daily basis now

These are not the result of condensation from Jet Engines. These are `bio` weapons being deliberately targetted against innocent men, women and children, not to mention livestock and vegetation. Forget that you work for the government (in reality, the Danish people), you are a member of the Human Race, and have a duty to prevent the Genocide of it's population.

Do not take this lightly, it is a deadly serious matter. I have written this in English as I intend to circulate a copy to various websites around the world.

Yours Sincerely,

Philip Jones
Analysis of chemtrails in Norway ?

March 5th 2008

This is the story according to my source:

On and around October 7, 2007, there was a big military exercise called Arctic Tiger on Ørlandet NATO Air Force Base, Norway. For days the sky was filled with chem-trails, much more than usual and in all kinds of shapes and patterns. One of the days during the exercise, the base was open to the public. My source, together with a couple of friends, went there to see if they could find any evidence of the spraying. After a little while, they left the rest of the crowd and went for a 'stroll' around the base. They found the fuel-trucks (Statoil) and went over to examine them more closely. Just behind where all the fuel-trucks stood, they found another tank, one big empty metal tank with multiple outlet pipes and more which made them suspicious. To them, it seemed like whatever had been in the tank was mixed with the jet-fuel. My source was able to look inside the empty tank, and found that there was some white, dusty stuff left in the bottom. He took a sample. He sent this sample to analysis, and for economic reasons he could only search for Aluminium and Barium, the two most reported substances in chemtrails. Last week, he got the results from the lab, and what do you know, it was a full score!
You can see the whole analysis here: http://internet.phobic.no/ chemtrail.pdf

My source have today been in a meeting with the Norwegain broadcasting station NRK, and discussed the possibility of making an investigative report on the issue of chemtrails. It will be very interesting to see what happens in this case now!

[halva]

Has the Time Come for Geoengineering?
http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/roundtables/has-the-time-come-geoengineering?order=asc

[foot_soldier]

Has the Time Come for Geoengineering?
http://www.thebulletin.org/web-edition/roundtables/has-the-time-come-geoengineering?order=asc

No.

[Lou]

_BUMP_

[halva]

Death from Above

Smashing pumpkins
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=RwbFM43Gf4o

[Lou]

I have nothing to add to this thread at this time, I'm just stepping on the STINKING TROLL that's smelling the place up. :D

[Lou]

***ON TOP OF THE TROLL SHIT*** :D

[Lou]

CHEMTRAIL REPORT.

Today, Saturday 9 / 20 / 08 for the first time since mid to late June there was heavy spraying taking place from 11:00 AM on throughout the day into this evening, the spraying was taking place mostly to the west of us in central and northern New Hampshire but also over the western Maine mountains to a large extent.

I should not that in checking the upper air data for Southwestern Maine there was not a relative humidity reading of more than 19% between twenty and forty three thousand feet as we are experiencing a high pressure system that has very dry aloft, in checking the ADDS icing data there where no pilot reports of icing at any altitude over the entire northeast today, so with the data combined we know that there was far from the necessary 60% humidity and the extreme lack of any areas of clear air ice which could account for Persistent Spreading Contrails, so, logic dictates that the many dozens of trails that where being made throughout the day into this evening where anything but normal contrails since the atmospheric conditions did not exist to allow there formation.

Another note, the aircraft that where making these trails did not show up on our flight tracking programs and they consistently made the trails in or near the edges of other trails that had been previously made and had spread out into masses of aircraft created clouds. We also observed many "STOP and START" type trails as an aircraft would fly along the edge of an older spreading trail spraying the when reaching the end of that older spreading trail the spraying would come to a sudden stop, then the aircraft would fly on with no trail visible at all until it reached another older spreading trail where it would commence to spray again, we could not help but shake our heads at how obvious the spraying was being conducted.

I took the following photo just before 7:00 PM as we where going out for dinner and the Sprayers where still going at it, the view is to the southwest looking over into New Hampshire from Hessian Hill in Parsonsfield, Maine.

The friends that we had dinner with had also observed the spraying today and we had quite the conversation about it over dinner.

Two and a half months with only a noticeable normal contrail once in awhile , then today THIS.

[Lou]

It should be noted that all of the clouds in the photo where made by aircraft, none of them where
naturally occurring clouds.:rolleyes:

[Lou]

Isn't this better ON TOP than the TROLL'S crap? :cool:;):D

[halva]

Greek Ministry declares lack of competence (in the sense of authority)

The Greek journalist Aliki Stefanou sent an e-mail to the Greek Ministry of the Interior, General Secretariat for Civil Defence, Directorate for Emergency Planning, Department of Technological (and other) Disaster Prevention and Management, asking for information on chemical spraying and artificial inducement of climatological phenomena, and was informed that the subject is not within the department's competence.

No further information was provided.

[Lou]

Greek Ministry declares lack of competence (in the sense of authority)

The Greek journalist Aliki Stefanou sent an e-mail to the Greek Ministry of the Interior, General Secretariat for Civil Defence, Directorate for Emergency Planning, Department of Technological (and other) Disaster Prevention and Management, asking for information on chemical spraying and artificial inducement of climatological phenomena, and was informed that the subject is not within the department's competence.

No further information was provided.

Ha,.....:rolleyes:.......not under there auspices, in other words they passed the buck, how many times have we heard this tired old line when pointed questions regarding the spraying operations are raised to those in charge.? :rolleyes:

[kola]

very few chemtrails here in CO...but Sundays seems to be the busiest day.

i have not seen them all-out assaults in a long time.

I have read that China has not gotten any chemtrails ever. Is this so?

Kola

[Lou]

very few chemtrails here in CO...but Sundays seems to be the busiest day.

i have not seen them all-out assaults in a long time.

I have read that China has not gotten any chemtrails ever. Is this so?

Kola

Hi Kola, glad to here that the spraying is light in your neck of the wood, it's been quiet here again after we got hosed on Sept 20th, that was the first heavy spraying I'd seen around here since mid June, this year the spraying seems to have been directed elsewhere because they just haven't been spraying that much over Maine and New Hampshire.

I know from reports that Europe has been getting hammered this year, really bad in the U.K., Spain, Portugal, Greece and Italy, Germany has been hard hit also. It's been pretty bad up in the western provinces of Canada to, not so much in the east.

I've not heard anything coming out of China about Chemtrail Spraying, they do have a huge weather modification program but as far as I know no blatant spraying like the NATO countries have.

[CDsNuTz]

very few chemtrails here in CO...but Sundays seems to be the busiest day.

i have not seen them all-out assaults in a long time.

I have read that China has not gotten any chemtrails ever. Is this so?

Kola


Actually last week we got nailed with them here over the Denver Metro area for about two days. Other then that the summers been relatively "chem" free...

[halva]

It seems to be the seasonal pattern that there is less spraying in summer.

It starts up again in earnest with the first signs of autumn rains.

How all this is to be reconciled with a "cooling" function is something I don't understand.

[Lou]

Wayne_I can say with absolutely certainly that we usually have been sprayed more from mid spring, through the summer and up into the late fall here in the northeast with hardly any spraying taking place during the winter months.

I've come to realize that the spraying takes place in various geographical locations dependant on conditions in those areas, this year has thrown me though since we have not had much in the way of spraying so far_strange.

I believe the thinking behind the spraying is that it will have a cumulative effect over time as more and more material is put up into the atmosphere if we are talking about reducing the effects of Global Warming among other applications.

[halva]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/avadiscuss/message/7501

[Lou]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/avadiscuss/message/7501

Hmmmm,...:rolleyes:.....behold a dead horse me think's.

What's the point Wayne? :confused:

[halva]

Let's see where, if anywhere, it leads.

[Lou]

Let's see where, if anywhere, it leads.

Ok Wayne but you know about my feelings on these forums and what they lead to. :rolleyes:

[halva]

This text is being discussed in Aigina and elsewhere at this moment?? Any comments??

Would you be a signatory, Footsoldier to the text as it stands?? Would you be a signatory if amendments were made?? If so, what amendments?

We do not accept that there should be a public political debate about the reality or non-reality of anthropogenic climate change.

Anthropogenic climate change “sceptics” should be marginalized and systematically excluded from public discussion in the way that “chemtrails” “conspiracy theorists” are now systematically marginalized and excluded.

We reject the delusory and self-deceiving view that anthropogenic climate change contrarians are already marginalized because (as it is claimed) no self-respecting scientist or author of a peer-reviewed scientific article could take anthropogenic climate change “scepticism” seriously. In fact “scepticism” of this kind, encouraged by wealthy and single-minded special interest groups, has a powerful popular base.

We do not propose to give our consent to the spraying of toxic aerosols from aircraft (or using any other method) as a measure of “climate change mitigation”, or to take the political responsibility for it that all governments – to their discredit – have so far refused to take. (The relevant example for European citizens being Commissioner Dimas’ response to Erik Meijer’s question E-2455/07 in the European Parliament).

***The question: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+E-2007-2455+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN
***The answer: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAllAnswers.do?reference=E-2007-2455&language=EN

That said, if such geoengineering is to be pursued against the will of the population, it must be pursued with transparency and accountability in accordance with rules that make it possible for citizens to distinguish between allegedly “benign” applications of aerosol spraying technologies and applications serving hostile political, military, economic and/or social objectives. This demand amounts to nothing more than a demand for implementation of the Geneva Conventions, i.e. existing international law.

[halva]

中国受害者告全世界人民书

An Announcement To The Whole World By Chinese Victims Of Directed Energy And Neurological Weapons

INFORMATION IN CHINESE
1 "American And Russia Is Accused Abuse MC Weapons By A Group Victims World Wide"
http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2008-07/09/content_8515391.htm

2 "American Millitary Practice On Net-Psychological War"
http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2008-03/25/content_7855919.htm

3. http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2008-07/10/content_8518076.htm

CHINA - PEACEPINK -粉红和平 , MS SOLEILMAVIS
WEB: http://peacepink.ning.com , http://groups.google.com/group/soleilmavis (IN CHINESE)
http://soleilmavis.spaces.live.com/ ,EMAIL: soleilmavis@yahoo.com,

We are a group of over 780 DIRECTED ENERGY AND NEUROLOGICAL WEAPONS, AND ORGANISED STALKING TORTURE AND ABUSE VICTIMS -
see - http://www.freedrive.com/folder/177784 OR
http://www.mydrive.ch username – johnfinch password - TORTURECASES

(see below for Chinese version)

Dear Sir/Madam,

First of all, please permit us to introduce ourselves to you. We are some of the Chinese victims from dozens of regions and cities across China , who have been cruelly harassed tortured and persecuted in a covert way by the means of secret remote control on human body & brain. Among us, there are corporate employees, teachers, students, retirees and other intellectual workers and physical workers. Our suffering period ranges from several months till over 30 years.

Thanks to Internet that builds a bridge for us to know each other, and it is same sufferings bring us to work together.

A group of secret criminals who abuse their powers, arbitrarily use "the means of secret remote control on human body & brain", illegally manipulate our bodies and brains covertly, and also cruelly torture and harass us psychologically and physically and persecute us days and nights so that a lot of victims live a very miserable and horrible life.

Secret criminals utilize the weapons of "secret remote control on human body & brain" and remotely influence us, and consequently our bodies suffer from "physiological diseases and physiological behaviors" caused artificially from their weapons such as aching, itching, coldness, hotness, trembling, unwell feeling and unhappiness, and so that our brains suffer harassments and tortures from "acoasma and hallucination". Besides, criminals do all they could to shamelessly steal and indecently spread our privacy in our brains in a abnormal psychology and crazily do all they could to intimidate and humiliate victims. All these vices do a great harm us psychologically and physically. Therefore , some innocent victims was forced to hospitals especially for being forced to accept mental treatment, some innocent victims were forced to suicide because of intolerable secret tortures and insults, and others died of "strange fatal diseases" yielded by criminals secretly in a special trap.

Such secret crimes as the wide abuse of their powers, the illegal use of "the means of secret remote control on human body & brain" and illegal violation of fundamental human rights, have resulted horribly in atrocity or the unprecedented anti-human catastrophe of human rights technically. These crimes not only challenge severely Chinese constitution and laws, but also human conscience, the UN Charter and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It is NOT permitted by all the human beings at all!

Owing to the above-mentioned cases, Chinese victims jointly lodged "a collective complaint to Chinese President Hu Jintao" (please see attachment 1) on 3rd Dec. 2007, and emailed it to the Chinese Communist Party Central Committee, every ministries of the State Council, major news media and the legal community who we asked to deliver the complaints to Chinese President.

Subsequently, we jointly announced " An Open Letter to the Head of Chinese Secret Institution" on 5th May 2008.(Please see attachment 2)

Chinese Goverment has the undisputed responsibility to take an immediate investigation into the secret criminals who abuse their power, and to sternly punish them according to the clause of "the State respect and protect citizens' human rights" set out by Constitution of PRC China. However, unfortunately, so far we have not received any response on the issue.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UN General Assembly passed and published Resolution 217A (III) on 10th December 1948) stipulates in the following relevant clauses that:

Article 3 Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 5 No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 6 Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Article 12 No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Article 19 Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

China is one of the creators of the United Nations, a permanent member of the UN Security Council, a member of UN Human Right Council and one of the signers of UN Covenant on Human Rights. Therefore, China should seriously observe and enforce the relevant rules of UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

At present, the quantity of victims are increasingly rising around the globe. Thousands of victims strongly demand for an investigation into the sinful Hi-tech crimes which covertly violate human rights worldwide. A large quantity of the stated facts reveal that these secret fascist criminals are the common enemies of all the human beings who use Hi-tech means to arbitrarily secretly violate human dignity and fundamental human rights. The crazy secret Hi-tech crimes heavily threat and violate the fundamental rights of human livings in the world.

Challenged by the unprecedented worldwide catastrophe of human rights and the severe crimes of damaging human beings, we urge an immediate actions in union and bravely fight against the gangs of secret fascist criminals! We must disclose the horrible crimes which are covertly damaging human beings, and put them into the Judge Courtroom in International Criminal Court!!

Journalist and elites worldwide have the responsibility to provide supports for victims, the lawyers worldwide have the responsibility to stand by and offer a legal aid to victims.UN Human Right Council has the responsibility to safeguard human rights and to protect thinking right, sleeping right, health right and living right of all the human beings. International Criminal Court at Hague has the responsibility to carry out an investigation into the crimes denounced by victims, and to charge these secret fascist,the criminals who severely violate fundamental human rights with the Hi-tech Crime and the Antihuman Crime through and according to the relevant legal proceedings.

We, Chinese victims, support resolutely the global campaign of " Ban the abuse and torture of secret MIND CONTROL/PSYCHOTRONIC WEAPONS/Remote Human manipulation" through our practical actions. We strongly appeal for the United Nations to immediately stop the abuse of the means of the secret remote control on human body & brain which are used to cruelly harass and torture and persecute covertly common citizens.

We strongly urge the UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon to do his solemn duty to protect fundamental human rights of the whole world, and hold a urgent international conference on the ban of abusing "the means of secret remote control on human body & brain" so as to protect the validity of the UN Charter and UN Declaration & Covenant on Human Rights. Also, we demand for European Commission for Human Right to immediately put Article 27 of A40005/1999 into practice.

We strongly urge global news media to stand out to support justice, and to take a deep careful investigation into the secret Hi-tech crimes, and to expose truly the sinful facts of secret fascist criminals to the global people.

We strongly urge global legal community to stand out to offer a legal aid to all the victims and support justice based on the UN Charter and UN Declaration & Covenant on Human Rights.

We strongly urge UN Human Right Council to take an urgent investigation into these secret fascist criminals who arbitrarily use "the means of secret remote control on human body & brain" which have been crazily violating fundamental human rights.

We strongly urge International Criminal Court to take an immediate investigation into our complaints, and to charge these secret fascist criminals who heavily violate fundamental human rights with the Hi-tech Crime and the Antihuman Crime, and to make a historic great contribution to guarantee the fundamental human rights of all the human beings!!

With best regards，
Yours truly
南京 忻中庆 13776686557 zwt762000@yahoo.com.cn
桂林 易胜林 13978302663 yfsb987@sina.com
丹东 高晓维 13898510756 cwzpp@yahoo.cn
上海 郁荣建 13120847702 roji2nk@citiz.net

(continuing list)

[halva]

2008 Looking Back

http://solari.com/blog/?p=1929

The global financial bubble burst in 2008 — and that's a good thing.
It means that the bubble economy will stop draining the real economy.
Instead of capital being invested in fraudulent mortgage securities,
derivatives portfolios, and companies running black-box ponzi
schemes, perhaps it can be used to finance real solutions to the
problems before us. Now we can talk about the real world and real
issues: there are many worth addressing.

The big question of 2008 is "Where is the money?" It just keeps
disappearing. There was $4 trillion plus that disappeared from the US
government between 1998 and 2002 along with the pump-and-dump of the
Internet and telecom stocks and Enron. Since then and into 2008,
funds keep disappearing into the Afghanistan and Iraq campaigns. Now
we have $700 billion in bailouts and $7 trillion plus in loans by the
Fed, not to mention the $5 trillion in mortgage market liabilities
assumed by the Federal government with the passage of the Housing and
Economic Recovery Act of 2008. The fraud in the US mortgage bubble
was clearly enormous. But, where did all the money go?

The global financial meltdown that some market pundits predicted
hasn't happened. Instead, the "Slow Burn" continues. But, investor
losses have been significant. The result has been an outbreak of
healthy distrust which has resulted in the freezing up of the global
financial system. Because they are not leveraged, pension fund losses
have been relatively quiet. Look for reports regarding pension fund
performance to have a profound impact in 2009.

What this all adds up to is financial coup d'ιtat. Trillions are
being stolen through the financial system in a manner that
centralizes wealth, leaving governments bankrupt but with bigger
budgets to assert control over the wider population. Not
surprisingly, this leaves economies ever more dependent on defense
and enforcement spending as the infrastructure of central control
grows.

One of the biggest stories in 2008 was the continuing censorship of
stories about manipulations harmful to our health, including
chemtrails, the efforts to control the food and seed supply, and the
ongoing suppression of energy technology. Watch for a continued
failure of traditional media in 2009 … and a continuing loss of
market share due to public disgust at such censorship. Go, Wikileaks!

The Good News

One of the few good investment categories in 2008 was building local
self-sufficiency. From the success of the Financial Permaculture
conference in Hohenwald, Tennessee to the rapid spread of Transition
Towns around the world, to the spreading of participatory budgeting
from Latin America, efforts by local communities to re-localize are
very encouraging. The logical response to uneconomic centralization
is to look for ways to decentralize. Despite all the difficulties in
the economy, entrepreneurs doing natural home building, farmers
markets, starting farms, installing solar energy and weatherizing
homes enjoyed a market moving their way. These efforts will continue
to grow well beyond any shakeout.

In this week's Solari Report (Friday, December 26), I'm doing a year-
end "wrap-up" looking back at events in 2008 and discussing what they
mean to our future. Here's an outline:

- The Slow Burn
- Bailouts: Where's the Money?
- Financial Coup d'ιtat
- The Crash in Commodities: Temporary or Permanent?
- The Freezing Up of the Global Financial System
- Election 2008: The First Billion Dollar Candidate
- Russia, China, and the Middle East Rising
- Pension Fund Time Bomb
- The Shake-Out Moves into 2009

You can learn more about The Solari Report and subscribe here. We've
completed (2) reports thus far and subscribers can access our
complete archive of MP3 files.

I hope you'll join us.

[casino]

Today, Modern Medicine hauls in billions of taxpayer dollars every year as profit. This is what they call the free market. Of course, it took a lot of work to be free. First they had to buy enough members of congress and the senate in order to pass the laws that gave them all this free money. When that became too expensive, politicians being what they are, Modern Medicine went and bought the government agencies that distribute the free money. Next, Modern Medicine told their members in the agencies to make people do what the companies wanted. They had products to sell and they wanted to sell a lot of them. The easiest way to sell a product is to force people to buy it. The next easiest way to make people buy your products is to scare them into doing it.

[halva]

Quite so.

[Lou]

Today, Modern Medicine hauls in billions of taxpayer dollars every year as profit. This is what they call the free market. Of course, it took a lot of work to be free. First they had to buy enough members of congress and the senate in order to pass the laws that gave them all this free money. When that became too expensive, politicians being what they are, Modern Medicine went and bought the government agencies that distribute the free money. Next, Modern Medicine told their members in the agencies to make people do what the companies wanted. They had products to sell and they wanted to sell a lot of them. The easiest way to sell a product is to force people to buy it. The next easiest way to make people buy your products is to scare them into doing it.

And it will remain that way as long as our healthcare system continues to only treat disease and not fine cures for them, sick people assure a steady and healthy flow of income for the healthcare and pharmaceutical industry.

Why on earth would they want to actually find cures for the very thing that makes them richer?

[halva]

A note from Andrew Johnson:

A few weeks ago, I was contacted by the guy who wrote this article.
(So was I. [halva])

I am glad I didn't contribute anything to the article.
(So am I. I just referred the journalist to the Enouranois website and suggested a few other links. [halva])

This is the article:
http://www.alternet.org/environment/122849/chemtrails_in_the_sky_are_evidence_of_nefarious_ac tivities_for_broad-based_conspiracy_theorists/?cID=1117547#c1117547


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am now glad he did not contact me further in this disappointing article.

As ever, there is a confusion between "theory" and "evidence".

Some good points are covered in the article, but these days I usually skip to the conclusion of the article, which in this case is woefully inadequate because of its dismissal of all the evidence.

Those who are parroting "contrails... contrails... contrails... CONTRAILS for heaven's sake" have not looked at all the evidence:

Grids
Triangles
Time lapse studies

This evidence is clear and unequivocal - as is the path of Hurricane Erin and its location on 9/11/01 (which I encouraged the author of this article to study, but I am not sure from this article if he did).

Here:

http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/JJ/

For my report about chemtrails, and some of the responses I received about it:

http://tinyurl.com/chemrep

For a short film I made for BBCi:

http://tinyurl.com/bbcichems

So "contrail fantasists", what say you? It's funny how some people comfort themselves that it's just a contrail only phenomenon. It really is funny. I am sure they feel comforted with the author's conclusion too.

A reminder: just because the purpose of something cannot be clearly defined does not mean it does not exist.

Example: Fred says: "I don't know what human beings are for!!". Bill says: "Neither do I - so they can't exist, can they?"

PLEASE distinguish properly between "theory" "evidence" and "proof". Thanks.
Andrew Johnson

[halva]

Chemtrails in the Sky Are Evidence of Nefarious Activities for Broad-Based Conspiracy Theorists

By Alexander Zaitchik, AlterNet. Posted January 27, 2009.

Cultural panic over pollution in the sky and changing weather patterns has given rise to a peculiar conspiracy theory about jet plane exhaust.

Anyone living near a major metropolitan airport has gazed up at the sky and seen them: patchworks of crisscrossing contrails left by passing jetliners. Most of us don't give a second thought to this common sight of a scratched-up sky. If we do, it's likely to reflect on the explosion in air traffic and its growing contribution to air pollution.

But for an expanding minority of Americans, those hanging contrails represent something much more sinister than increased carbon emissions. Since the late 1990s, a flourishing conspiracy theory subculture has been ringing the alarm that many of these contrails aren't normal vapor-and-exhaust contrails at all. Rather, they are chemtrails, mysterious and menacing chemical evidence of secret government programs to modify the weather and depopulate the planet.

Investigation into, and speculation over, the nature of these chemtrails has grown over the last decade from a marginal belief into a millions-strong Transatlantic Truth Quest, with chemtrails taking on the stature of celestial UFOs. If early UFO sightings were the projection of early Cold War fears, chemtrails are the climate-change-age corollary, with cultural panic over pollution and changing weather patterns projected onto the clouds and planes in the sky.

As with flying saucers, hundreds of YouTube clips purport to capture cities "getting pasted" by secret government planes. Dozens of chemtrails Web sites compete for the loyalty and business of a sprawling, gullible and increasingly global chemtrails flock. Like the white lines that are its obsession, the chemtrails scene crisscrosses with every other strand in the pantheon of cosmic conspiracy culture. Most chemtrails sites, like the lovable dontchemtrailmebro.com, also peddle in 9/11 Truth, alien contact, Northern Idaho survivalism and the "suppressed" theories of the twin martyred wizards of etheric energy, Wilhelm Reich and Nicolai Tesla.

The chemtrails scene is a loud saloon of shouting New Age conspiracists spouting conflicting theories at the bar, with the usual assortment of hucksters and Internet paranoids filling the tables. The self-styled leaders of the movement are a diverse lot but share a consensus starting point that thousands of jets are spraying millions of gallons of "chemtrail soup" around the world on a daily basis.

Chemtrails, they hold, are easily distinguished from normal contrails by their longer duration and expansive dissipation patterns. Most of the spraying is believed to take place at night over the population centers of NATO countries, although some skywatchers suspect Russia and China are being targeted as well. As for the content of the soup and who is responsible for the program, that's where things get contentious. But the major theories are generally some variation or combination of the following:

1) U.S. oil companies are secretly spraying reflective chemicals in the air to reduce global warming and thus reduce criticism of fossil fuels.

2) A New World Order cabal -- also known as the Illuminati -- is spraying cities with pathogens in the first of a two-stage depopulation program.

3) NATO aircraft are involved in a top-secret weather-modification program, and/or are refining a new-generation of high-frequency atmospheric weapons.

4) The U.S. government is using commercial and military aircraft to assist and monitor weather events like hurricanes and tornadoes in order to both destroy enemies and pump money into the domestic economy through emergency spending/recovery bills.

Scott Stevens is a leading proponent of the fourth theory. A former TV meteorologist in Pocatello, Idaho, Stevens was fired when he began giving national radio interviews on chemtrails. He took his severance and moved to the foothills above Denver International Airport, where he now conducts plain-sight research into chemtrails full time, maintains the chemtrails site weatherwarsinfo.blogspot.com, and hosts "Amerika Now," a local AM-radio conspiracy culture talk show.

"I don't buy the theory that chemtrails are a pathogenic depopulation program," says Stevens. "You don't need to get so high in the atmosphere for that. And you don't need airplanes."

Instead, he suspects a global cabal is using chemtrails to maintain "situational awareness" of the atmosphere to better anticipate and control the weather. "There isn't a major weather event that can't be mitigated or exacerbated," he says. "The chemtrails allow Them to take a sort of MRI of the atmosphere."

Stevens is certain that chemtrails are an essential component of this mother of all weapons -- total weather control -- but admits being stumped by the cloak around the ground operation that supports the program. "Are these just painted-up commercial planes? Are there passengers aboard? What I do know is that the shipping companies are part of it. FedEx and UPS are compromised. Their chemtrails are egregious."

Stevens believes President Barack Obama has been briefed on the chemtrails program, but is agnostic about whether the new president can break free from the powerful, entrenched interests behind the spraying.

The darkest of the chemtrails theories holds that a massive fleet of planes, under the aegis of NATO, the U.S. Air Force or the Illuminati, is spraying the soup as a part of a "binary population elimination weapon." Stage one involves passing pathogens to weaken humanity's collective immune system. Once general T-cell weakness is attained, we can expect aerial dispersal of smallpox or anthrax. Supporters of this theory like to quote fringe independent journalists and survivalist rags like the Idaho Observer. A typical comment left under a chemtrails YouTube clip warns viewers that they are now breathing "ethylene dibromide, nano-particulates of aluminum and barium, cationic polymer fibers with unidentified bioactive material, and tiny parasitic nematode eggs of some type."

"The chemtrails are part of a genocidal program to reduce the global population by up to 90 percent," says Ken Adachi, who subscribes to the depopulation theory and runs educate-yourself.org. "The Illuminati only want 500,000 people on the planet, maximum. Chemtrails are one of the vectors. Poisoning people is easier than rounding everyone up in liquidation camps."

Adachi, who keeps a daily log of chemtrails activity in Orange County, Calif., says hundreds of people write him every week with stories of spraying over their communities. He finds hope in the radicalizing nature of their chemtrails discovery. What starts as a stand-alone concern soon leads to the question "Why?" and a shocking self-education in the reality of the Illuminati's New World Order.

Often the various theories will be thrown together into a chemtrails conspiracy soup. "Welcome to the brave new world of toxic barium skies, weather control, mind control and population control through the use of chemtrails modulated with electromagnetic frequencies generated by HAARP," says a chemtrails YouTube clip.

If you don't know what HAARP (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) is, you have so much to learn.

* * *

[halva]

The dean of the chemtrails conspiracy scene is William Thomas, the Canadian journalist who coined the term. Thomas has written a book on the subject, Chemtrails Confirmed, and produced a documentary film, Mystery Lines In the Sky. (All majors accepted at www.willthomasonline.net.) Thomas has reported finding over 300 types of virally mutated fungi in the chemtrail fallout, which he believes is a project with multiple goals. In an interview with the online conspiracy radio program, "The Jeff Rense Program," Thomas mused that possible actors ranged from the "oil industry mafia" to the United States military. But even after all of his groundbreaking research, Thomas admits that he is still waiting for "a real, honest-to-God whistle-blower" to step forward and connect all the dots.

Some thought that moment had finally arrived in 2002, when Dennis Kucinich introduced a House bill that sought to ban space weapons. Tucked deep into a subclause in the first draft of H.R. 2977 was the word "chemtrails," listed among the weapons and practices Kucinich wanted outlawed. It was the first time the word had ever appeared in any sort of official document in Washington.

For the civically challenged chemtrails scene, the event was tantamount to the United States government officially admitting that the program was "real." Although Kucinich quickly removed the word and denied responsibility for the original inclusion, chemtrails enthusiasts continue to dog the congressman wherever he speaks. In Europe, similar alarms were set off when Erik Meijer, a Dutch Socialist member of parliament, submitted an official query to European Parliament in Brussels, demanding an investigation into the phenomenon.

The Kucinich bill wasn't the first time someone in government acknowledged the chemtrails conspiracy theory. Far from it. State agencies have given more careful attention to chemtrails than any other conspiracy theory, after UFOs. And they have addressed its activists with a seriousness it is impossible to imagine with regard to, say, 9/11 Truthers.

In 2000, the EPA, NASA, FAA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration issued a joint "Aircraft Contrails Factsheet" that sought to address the fears and claims of the increasingly rambunctious chemtrails crowd. The six-page illustrated report explains the science of contrails, such as the role humidity plays in the variance between how long contrails linger and spread, sometimes forming cirrus cloud cover; and their zero impact on human health.

The report admits a link between contrails and climate change, but says this is not the purpose of the global air travel industry. The EPA report also includes photos of contrail clusters of the kind found on chemtrails sites. Although the word "chemtrails" does not appear in the report, the structure and tone make it clear that the exercise is aimed at the chemtrails conspiracists, delivered as a school nurse might talk to a student about excessive masturbation in a roundabout way in order not to embarrass herself or the student.

The Air Force, on the other hand, has no qualms about talking straight to the chemtrailers. The USAF followed the EPA's multi-agency report with its own 24-page fact sheet on emissions. The report included a section titled "The 'Chemtrail' Hoax." Here the military bluntly addresses the idea that "the Air Force [is] involved in spraying the U.S. population with mysterious substances [and] conducting weather-modification experiments." It explains that long-lasting contrails are not new and have been under official study since the 1950s, and that the grid patterns highlighted by chemtrailers result from the National Airspace System being structured on a four-directional grid with aircraft flying at designated increments of elevation.

Inevitably, the official "denials" only served to further excite the chemtrails legions.

More popular than ever, chemtrails is the perfect 21st century conspiracy. It combines the 20th century fear of poisonous fallout with anxiety over very real changes in climate and pollution of the atmosphere, including by some of the very toxins and metals said to be ingredients in "chemtrails soup."

Like most conspiracies, there are grains of truth in its basic components. The planet is under attack. The climate is undergoing drastic changes. Governments do lie. Pollution is causing more and more respiratory illness. The military does have secret weapons programs, some of them involving high-frequency weapons and weather modification.

How individuals choose to deal with these truths -- and the larger context of civilizational crisis and individual powerlessness -- is up to them, of course. But there are healthier and much more relaxing ways of projecting skyward than imagining genocidal Illuminatic air fleets spraying toxic soup.

There is one good alternative we all learned in boy and girlhood, before computers and Internet-driven conspiracy theories began draining so much of our personal and cultural energy. It involves going outside on a nice day, finding a warm patch of grass and watching the clouds (contrails, too) as they spread, crisscross and drift.

It's amazing what we can see in the clouds. Frolicking bunnies, mating mountain goats, leaping unicorns, comforting angels. All sorts of wonderful, fantastical things…

See more stories tagged with: conspiracy theory, chemtrails, haarp

Alexander Zaitchik is a freelance journalist.
(Alexander Zaitchik is a deadshit [comment of halva]).

[Lou]

The dean of the chemtrails conspiracy scene is William Thomas, the Canadian journalist who coined the term. Thomas has written a book on the subject, Chemtrails Confirmed, and produced a documentary film, Mystery Lines In the Sky. (All majors accepted at www.willthomasonline.net.) Thomas has reported finding over 300 types of virally mutated fungi in the chemtrail fallout, which he believes is a project with multiple goals. In an interview with the online conspiracy radio program, "The Jeff Rense Program," Thomas mused that possible actors ranged from the "oil industry mafia" to the United States military. But even after all of his groundbreaking research, Thomas admits that he is still waiting for "a real, honest-to-God whistle-blower" to step forward and connect all the dots.

Some thought that moment had finally arrived in 2002, when Dennis Kucinich introduced a House bill that sought to ban space weapons. Tucked deep into a subclause in the first draft of H.R. 2977 was the word "chemtrails," listed among the weapons and practices Kucinich wanted outlawed. It was the first time the word had ever appeared in any sort of official document in Washington.

For the civically challenged chemtrails scene, the event was tantamount to the United States government officially admitting that the program was "real." Although Kucinich quickly removed the word and denied responsibility for the original inclusion, chemtrails enthusiasts continue to dog the congressman wherever he speaks. In Europe, similar alarms were set off when Erik Meijer, a Dutch Socialist member of parliament, submitted an official query to European Parliament in Brussels, demanding an investigation into the phenomenon.

The Kucinich bill wasn't the first time someone in government acknowledged the chemtrails conspiracy theory. Far from it. State agencies have given more careful attention to chemtrails than any other conspiracy theory, after UFOs. And they have addressed its activists with a seriousness it is impossible to imagine with regard to, say, 9/11 Truthers.

In 2000, the EPA, NASA, FAA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration issued a joint "Aircraft Contrails Factsheet" that sought to address the fears and claims of the increasingly rambunctious chemtrails crowd. The six-page illustrated report explains the science of contrails, such as the role humidity plays in the variance between how long contrails linger and spread, sometimes forming cirrus cloud cover; and their zero impact on human health.

The report admits a link between contrails and climate change, but says this is not the purpose of the global air travel industry. The EPA report also includes photos of contrail clusters of the kind found on chemtrails sites. Although the word "chemtrails" does not appear in the report, the structure and tone make it clear that the exercise is aimed at the chemtrails conspiracists, delivered as a school nurse might talk to a student about excessive masturbation in a roundabout way in order not to embarrass herself or the student.

The Air Force, on the other hand, has no qualms about talking straight to the chemtrailers. The USAF followed the EPA's multi-agency report with its own 24-page fact sheet on emissions. The report included a section titled "The 'Chemtrail' Hoax." Here the military bluntly addresses the idea that "the Air Force involved in spraying the U.S. population with mysterious substances [and] conducting weather-modification experiments." It explains that long-lasting contrails are not new and have been under official study since the 1950s, and that the grid patterns highlighted by chemtrailers result from the National Airspace System being structured on a four-directional grid with aircraft flying at designated increments of elevation.

Inevitably, the official "denials" only served to further excite the chemtrails legions.

More popular than ever, chemtrails is the perfect 21st century conspiracy. It combines the 20th century fear of poisonous fallout with anxiety over very real changes in climate and pollution of the atmosphere, including by some of the very toxins and metals said to be ingredients in "chemtrails soup."

Like most conspiracies, there are grains of truth in its basic components. The planet is under attack. The climate is undergoing drastic changes. Governments do lie. Pollution is causing more and more respiratory illness. The military does have secret weapons programs, some of them involving high-frequency weapons and weather modification.

How individuals choose to deal with these truths -- and the larger context of civilizational crisis and individual powerlessness -- is up to them, of course. But there are healthier and much more relaxing ways of projecting skyward than imagining genocidal Illuminatic air fleets spraying toxic soup.

There is one good alternative we all learned in boy and girlhood, before computers and Internet-driven conspiracy theories began draining so much of our personal and cultural energy. It involves going outside on a nice day, finding a warm patch of grass and watching the clouds (contrails, too) as they spread, crisscross and drift.

It's amazing what we can see in the clouds. Frolicking bunnies, mating mountain goats, leaping unicorns, comforting angels. All sorts of wonderful, fantastical things…

See more stories tagged with: conspiracy theory, chemtrails, haarp

Alexander Zaitchik is a freelance journalist.
(Alexander Zaitchik is a deadshit [comment of halva]).

[I]Alexander Zaitchik may well be a freelance journalist but I note that he started his article with an immediate falsehood.

Will Thomas did not coin the term "Chemtrail" at all, that is a popular misconception brought about because so many associate Will Thomas with speaking out on the issue.

Even Will Thomas knows that it was the United States Air Force that first developed that term for a series of Atmospheric (microform) Chemistry classes that where being taught at the Air Force Academy in Colorado, Springs that actually started in the fall of 1991 a number of years before Will Thomas started writing anything about "Chemtrail's".

It really is a serious social problem regarding our media and how information becomes distorted over time, I guess if we hear something repeated over and over as if it is the truth then after awhile it becomes what passes for the truth even though it's completely false, such as the case here with Will Thomas being credited with coining the term "Chemtrail's", it's just not true. (no disrespect of Will Thomas implied.)

So called freelance journalist should really do some detailed background research on their subject matter before banging out their articles, otherwise we end up with half truths and or outright falsehoods passed off as facts and that is in no way good journalism.

[halva]

The taking over of a chemtrails (and other subjects) forum in Australia by anti-Semites has led to some Australian chemtrails activists beginning to come to the http://halva.proboards46.com forum. The forum has been dead for some time now, but may begin to come to life.

[Lou]

The taking over of a chemtrails (and other subjects) forum in Australia by anti-Semites has led to some Australian chemtrails activists beginning to come to the http://halva.proboards46.com forum. The forum has been dead for some time now, but may begin to come to life.

Wayne_I've just signed up at your forum, I'm about sick of this place, it will be a refreshing change of pace to go to a forum that is "socrates / Jeffie Boy Reynolds" free, thank you and see you there as soon as I am able. ;):cool::D

Lou.

[halva]

OK. You're approved. Here's hoping we can generate some interesting interaction and also become a source of up-to-date information.

[Lou]

OK. You're approved. Here's hoping we can generate some interesting interaction and also become a source of up-to-date information.

Thanks Wayne, I'll drop in maybe tomorrow evening, I'm not sure, I have a number of things to do and a town meeting to attend, depends on what time I get back but it's good to know that I can log in anytime now.

Chat with you there soon. ;):cool::D

Lou.

[Lou]

Wayne_I went to http://halva.proboards46.com and made a short introductory post, I'm really beat tonight, long day so I didn't get to do much besides make that one post and look around.

Say, does the avatar function work, I tried to upload a photo but it seemed not to accept the URL, maybe my fault, as I said I'm beat.

I sent you an email earlier with some interesting information on you know who :eek:, not sure which email it was now but you should check them all.

That's all for me for now, I'm off to Zzzzzzzzzzzland, I'm back out. :cool: :D

[Jeff Reynolds]

Don't let the door hit your fat, disinfo butts on the way out.

The true reasons for chemtrails have been explained at only one website:

http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org



There was no Deep Sky. There was never 370 chemtrails in one day. No videos. No photos. The Navy can't seem to verify any "Lou Aubuchont" was ever an intelligence courier. Rense is a bigot who posts depopulation theories. Johnson is a global warming debunker. Carnicom also spreads hoaxes just like these two and is tied to the rightwing Rense.

These are actors. They aren't even insane. They are psy-ops. Lou was Agent Mike at BradBlog. He spoke of chemtrail conspiracy bs and those chemtrail believers. Jay Reynolds was a close associate of William Cooper.

I was the one who exposed the grotesque FootSoldier as being a debunker, while these agent provocateurs propped up her lies that chemtrails are contrails and that we are looking at supersaturated ice and increased air traffic.

Next stop for you losers is hell. No coat needed. The cavalry is on the way. "Aubuchont" will never recover from making those debunker, agent provocateur posts at BradBlog.

[halva]

Say, does the avatar function work, I tried to upload a photo but it seemed not to accept the URL, maybe my fault, as I said I'm beat.


I have never tried to post a photograph at http://halva.proboards46.com so I don't know. Persevere and if necessary we can call in help.

Jeff Reynolds I see that you are going to persist with your raving until such time as the authorities catch up with you. I am not planning to be driven away from here, so if that is what you think you have achieved, think again.

[Lou]

Don't let the door hit your fat, disinfo butts on the way out.

The true reasons for chemtrails have been explained at only one website:

http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org



There was no Deep Sky. There was never 370 chemtrails in one day. No videos. No photos. The Navy can't seem to verify any "Lou Aubuchont" was ever an intelligence courier. Rense is a bigot who posts depopulation theories. Johnson is a global warming debunker. Carnicom also spreads hoaxes just like these two and is tied to the rightwing Rense.

These are actors. They aren't even insane. They are psy-ops. Lou was Agent Mike at BradBlog. He spoke of chemtrail conspiracy bs and those chemtrail believers. Jay Reynolds was a close associate of William Cooper.

I was the one who exposed the grotesque FootSoldier as being a debunker, while these agent provocateurs propped up her lies that chemtrails are contrails and that we are looking at supersaturated ice and increased air traffic.

Next stop for you losers is hell. No coat needed. The cavalry is on the way. "Aubuchont" will never recover from making those debunker, agent provocateur posts at BradBlog.

Oh yeah_Like the CARTOON CHARACTER known as "socrates / Jeffie Boy" because he has no real identity is so much more credible than Brad Friedman of the Brad Blog who has confirmed that I have never posted at his Blog, EVER and shows 'socrates / Jeffie Boy" here to be the LIAR that he is.

He also confirmed that he BANNED YOU'RE SORRY ASS for being the BOTTOM FEEDING TROLL that you are.

So little TROLL, how do you explain what Brad Friedman had to say about that 74.75.235.182 IP address you keep LYING ABOUT and trying to say is mine when my IP is in fact 74.75.234.55 and has been since we got online here in Maine. ( are you a HACKER little TROLL?)

Brad Friedman thinks you're just some generic NUTJOB but he doesn't know you like we do as the rabid DEBUNKER MOLE who will go to any lengths to ATTACK those who speak out on the spraying issue.

One thing that's obvious about you,..... YOU'VE BEEN PROVEN TO BE A NO GOOD PATHOLOGICAL LYING BASTARD and Brad Friedman confirming that I have never posted at his Blog is just more proof of that.

I suppose you'll say that Brad Friedman is part of my psy-ops crew now,.........Ha,............you're a FRIGGEN IDIOT CARTOON BOY and everyone can see that very clearly.

According to Brad Friedman:



Hey there little CARTOON TROLL, how many more threads are going to post your LYING BS in calling myself and Brad Friedman liars when the PROOF shows YOU to BE the LYING BASTARD that's been caught red-handed_WHAT A MORON !

I swear, you're HIGH-SCHOOL DRAMA games are getting really old and stale, you're sounding really frustrated these days, try some new material you STUPID ASS. :rolleyes:
___________________________


BEWARE THE LYING TROLL SOCRATES

[Lou]

Originally posted by the STALKER 'socrates / Jeffie Boy Reynolds<
The Navy can't seem to verify any "Lou Aubuchont" was ever an intelligence courier.

Trying to obtain someone's personal Naval records under false pretences that you have no right to is most definitely a Federal crime and pretty stupid there "socrates / Jeffie Boy Reynolds" :rolleyes:

So now you're admitting to going so far as o try and obtain my Naval records for your STALKING purposes, like I said, that hole you're standing in is getting deeper with each ATTACK post you make. :rolleyes:

[halva]

WTF

[Lou]

WTF

Oh_It seems the DEBUNKER MOLE TROLL is trying a new tactic in fishing for information that he can use in his ATTACKS.

The only thing is that he has been proven to be a HABITUAL LIAR yet once again when he claims that the Navy has no record of me ever being a courier, that's only information that would be contained within my personnel file and he could not have obtained that even through (FOIA) Freedom Of Information Act.

What ever information that he might be able to get that is available to the general public would only be minimal, name, dates of service, rank, etc,...pretty generic stuff but nothing that would focus on what a person actually did or where they served while in the service, that information is only found within your military personnel file, not something that's available to the general public or CARTOON CHARACTERS like this MORON.

I do believe that I'm just going to start posting the TROLL WARNING gif. in response to the crap he post here, I think that's the best way to deal with this IDIOT, he is NOTHING but a time wasting FOOL. :rolleyes:

[Lou]

FYI:
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2009/02/386774.shtml

Dept. of Defense Expands Operations in Pacific NW: Public Comments Needed to Stop This

The Navy and Dept. of Defense on behalf of the military industrial complex will be expanding its weapons testing programs in the P.N.W. and that will undoubtedly bring about new environmental insults to the area. More aerosol spraying of the skies, more microwave and sonar, more biological weapons testing, etc. Public comments are needed as are phone calls to your reps. and senators.


February 21, 2009

To Whom It May Concern:

The following article was published by NewWithViews.com on February 21, 2009. Anyone may use this article provided that they give credit to NewWithViews.com for publishing it.

UNITED STATES NAVY - DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE - ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STUDY

REQUIRED TO USE PUBLIC LANDS, WATER RESOURCES &

HUMANS AS WARFARE TEST GUINEA PIGS

PUBLIC COMMENTS & QUESTIONS BY ROSALIND PETERSON

Published by NewsWithViews.com on February 21, 2009

Post Office Box 499
Redwood Valley, California 95470
(707) 485-7520
E-Mail: info@californiaskywatch.com

http://newswithviews.com/Peterson/rosalindA.htm
http://www.newswithviews.com/Peterson/rosalind114.htm

The United States Navy and the U.S. Department of Defense have decided that their Northwest Training Range Complex, in the State of Washington, should be expanded, and have devised a draft Environmental Impact Statement (EIS), dated December 2008, for public review and comment. The expansion of their area of operation will include all of the State of Washington, all of the State of Oregon, part of the state of Idaho, and Northern California. This area will also include large areas of the Pacific Ocean from California to the State of Washington. (The map designating this program area also extends throughout Northern California to the San Francisco Bay Area under a "warning area" designation.)

The U.S. Commander of the Pacific Fleet has given American citizens and residents of these states only a very short time to comment on their draft EIS: Published on December 30, 2008, with a final public comment deadline extended to March 11, 2009, this document is approximately 1,000+/- pages in length with attachments. In addition to a short comment time the Navy limited public hearings to five, with only one held in Oregon, one in California, and no scheduled hearings to be held in Idaho. The Navy has allegedly failed to place information about this EIS in major newspapers or inform our elected representatives about this program.

Thus, citizens in California, Oregon, Idaho, and Washington are asking for a realistic extension of time to read, study, and comment on this decision by the Navy and the Department of Defense, past the March 11, 2009, deadline. It should be noted that most elected representatives in California and Oregon were not aware of this EIS or the consequences of this action by the Navy. The Navy should hold additional public hearings.

The Navy has declared that this draft was distributed to our elected representatives. If so, then why haven't our elected officials spoken up to defend our rights to be heard, required more public meetings and hearings in California, Washington, Idaho (where not one was held), and Oregon? The U.S. Navy, the U.S. Department of Defense, and the Commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet have decided, without our consent, that that are going to use the Pacific Ocean off the Coast of California, Oregon and Washington and the land over four states to test weapons of war. They did not contact Senator Harry Reid of Nevada to obtain permission to use the Nevada Test Site for these warfare experiments. Instead they decided to use public lands, the Pacific Ocean, private property, wildlife, and humans as test subjects for warfare testing in four states.

The Navy also has decided to contaminate our air, water, and soils with the chemicals used in these programs. They fail to list many of the chemicals that are to be used in these programs. Thus, under the Freedom of Information Act, I am requesting a complete listing of all chemicals that will be used during these testing programs. It is easy for the Navy EIS to state that they can mitigate for such toxic usage but fail to disclose a complete listing of said chemicals. Also copies of contamination studies conducted at other military test sites where contamination problems were found and at bases (like Fallon Air Force Base), should be made public.

The draft EIS does not fully address the potential environmental impacts on multiple resources, like air quality, water resources, airborne acoustic environment (on land and in the ocean), biological resources, marine and terrestrial impacts and human health and safety. Without a complete understanding of their programs it is impossible to determine any impacts... thus, their EIS states that "... there are no significant impacts... " This statement is made throughout the entire document even though many of the chemicals used are highly toxic.

With the failure of the EIS to identify all of the air quality, water quality, and soils impacts of their programs this EIS appears to be a whitewash designed to stampede this program through as fast as the Navy can implement it. And in listing only a few of the EPA list of toxic chemicals that will be released by military aircraft (like jet fuel emissions), the Navy has avoided any discussion of negative impacts on air and water quality. It is not sufficient to state that our air is already polluted and that additional pollutants will make no difference in air quality.

There is a short listing of hazardous materials, air pollutants, and pollutants from munitions, expended materials, and radioactive materials to will be used in this project. I am requesting a complete listing of all chemicals that will be used by the Navy, Air Force, and any other branch of the Department of Defense in this project. Inshore and offshore detonations may or may not be considered hazardous - however, until a complete listing of these chemicals is provided to the public there can be no public discussion of their hazard to public health, marine life, wildlife, public drinking water sources or our oceans. The avoidance of making this specific list public leads one to believe that these hazardous materials and chemicals are toxic and do pose environmental hazards. (California laws regarding toxic chemicals are more stringent than those in other states.)

It is interesting that Table ES-5 Summary of Effects (Page ES-16) - Hazardous Material does not list the name of any hazardous materials but tells the public that there is no problem with their use. How is it possible to have a summary table and list none of the chemicals to be used during the Navy program? They do note petroleum products, heavy metals, and combustion products but fail to list all of them along with the number of pounds or gallons to be used each year.

The public and marine life in the ocean will be subjected to various sonar and aviation noise, target noise, surface ship noise, weapons and target noise, EOD (no definition found), and underwater explosions. The Navy does admit that marine life will be harmed. However, harming our food supply, (fish like salmon), or the whales is not deemed important by the Navy, as they are expendable according to the EIS.

The Navy and the Department of Defense have decided that massive warfare expenditures for testing war products and weapons using marine life and the public as guinea pigs is in our best interest. And since a lot of the equipment and other items to be tested are experimental this leads one to believe that they are testing them on us for the first time to see how they work and if the public is harmed by their usage.

Just when did the citizens of the United States agree to be warfare test subjects when the Nevada Test Site and/or Area 51 which could be used for these tests? And why use the Pacific Ocean which is a migratory haven for our food supply and valuable marine life - including those that migrate along the Pacific Coast? And if this Navy project is approved and the health of the citizens, marine, or wildlife is threatened, who will be held responsible for this action and its negative consequences? The EIS does not give the public standing to say no to this project or the consequences of being used as guinea pigs during the testing. In addition, the EIS does not state how long the testing process will last - providing us with the information that once implemented testing could be conducted forever in these areas.

I am requesting, under the freedom of information act, answers to the above questions, listings of the chemicals used and their exact harm to the public, animals, marine life, water supplies, trees, agriculture, and soils. This includes information on whether or not depleted uranium, red and white phosphorus, weather modification and mitigation chemicals will be used, whether or not atmospheric testing will occur along with aviation over-flights and bombing runs. Will sonic booms rattle our homes and low flights of planes shake our houses and wake us up at night? I am also requesting complete documentation and information on Electronic Combat Training and how it will impact human health. Noise and electronic levels should also be made public.

cont,

[Lou]

cont,

My freedom of information act request also includes the following questions:

1) Will aluminum coated fiberglass be used (CHAFF) and how many pounds will be released each year?



2) What are the health effects of Chaff particulates on humans, wildlife, soil and water? Please provide a study on these human and wildlife health effects.

3) Will weather modification or mitigation programs be initiated during the Navy program? If so, what chemicals will be used in this program?



4) Will jets be allowed to fly at heights that leave persistent jet contrails that exacerbate global warming and change our climate (NASA Studies)? What impact will these programs have on California climate?

5) A complete listing of jet fuels to be used (+ additives), and the components of said jet fuel with information on the number of chemicals released and their impact on human health, agriculture, soils, water supplies, and wildlife. (Include JP-8, JP-10, and other new experimental jet fuels.

The Jet Emissions report is available online at the EPA Website: http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/nonroad/aviation/r99013.pdf)



6) A complete study of depleted uranium showing human health and animal health effects.



7) A complete study of the health effects of the compounds listed in Table 3.3-5 Page 3.3-11 and definitions of RDX and HMX (use and toxicity).



8) Toxicity of Red and White Phosphorus - humans, wildlife, soils, water supplies, marine life.



9) A complete listing of the propellants, explosives, pyrotechnics, chemical and riot agents, and smoke canisters (type of smoke and toxicity) is requested. And a complete listing of ground-based and atmospheric obscurants which will be used in these programs and their toxicity.



10) How much money will Washington, Oregon, California and Idaho be reimbursed for hazardous waste disposal and other toxic site clean-up from the Navy and the Department of Defense? It is requested that the reimbursement be 100% if this program is initiated.

11) A complete listing and studies of the synergistic effects of all chemicals used in the Navy program with associated health effects. This includes cumulative and synergistic effects as well.



12) Studies of the synergistic effects of project chemicals on bioaccumulation in fish and other marine food supplies.



13) Will northern California Maxwell MOAs ( Military Operation Areas 1, 2 & 3), be used in this Navy Project? If yes, what will be the actions taken over these area by all branches of the military?



14) What effects will bomb blasts in the Pacific Ocean be on the San Andres and other California earthquake faults?

A rough study of the EIS leads one to believe that the Navy and the Department of Defense intends to leave behind a toxic pea soup of chemicals and other toxins in their wake, along with the human health effects and dead marine life. Many areas of California, Oregon, Washington, and Idaho would be contaminated from these experiments through airborne and water migration across these regions.

It also appears that nothing would be spared in testing weapons of war on the public (with the Nevada Test Site and Area 51 available for much of this testing and the Atlantic Ocean also available near Washington, D.C.). It appears that these Western States will be sacrificed for building and testing more weapons of mass destruction. Remember that sacrificing California, Washington, Oregon and Idaho is just the beginning... your state will be next.

I am requesting that the State of California be excluded from this Navy project. Citizens in all four states should say "no" to this proposed project and others like it. Contract your elected representatives today and let them know how you feel about this project. We are appealing to Congressman Mike Thompson, Senators Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein to delay this project, allow more time for public comment, hold hearings in Mendocino County and hold hearings in other northern California counties, and to eventually oppose allowing California to become part of this costly, toxic warfare project. END

For more information and copy of the U.S. Navy Environmental Impact Statement (EIS): www.nwtrangecomplexeis.com Comment Form: http://www.nwtrangecomplexeis.com/NtrcCommentForm.aspx

link to www.oregonlive.com

Respectfully,

Rosalind Peterson

Agriculture Defense Coalition

[Lophofo]

I have a friend in the Navy stationed down in San Diego. He's giving back his required 4 years of service for the financial help he received from them while obtaining his Ph.D.

If you served in the Navy, Lou, for a number of years, then why aren't your loyal to them? Why are you coming across as being so against these "experiments" that are being done by your former colleagues and companions...brothers in arms...so to speak?

Many people forget, but the Navy is more than just submarines. They do have airplanes as well. The Air Force isn't the only division operating those.

I believe in Rosalind Peterson, which is the only reason why I am even paying attention to this article. So, I will thank you, Lou for posting it...since it does contain relevance for us. I'm just confused by your stance when it comes to the Navy.

[Lou]

I have a friend in the Navy stationed down in San Diego. He's giving back his required 4 years of service for the financial help he received from them while obtaining his Ph.D.

If you served in the Navy, Lou, for a number of years, then why aren't your loyal to them? Why are you coming across as being so against these "experiments" that are being done by your former colleagues and companions...brothers in arms...so to speak?

Many people forget, but the Navy is more than just submarines. They do have airplanes as well. The Air Force isn't the only division operating those.

I believe in Rosalind Peterson, which is the only reason why I am even paying attention to this article. So, I will thank you, Lou for posting it...since it does contain relevance for us. I'm just confused by your stance when it comes to the Navy.

Since you have offered a civil and sane post for a change, I'll respond to you.

My limited service in the Navy ended in late1960's, do the math.

While I hold to this day a degree of comradely as you say toward, "my brothers in arms" it extends to the serving enlisted personnel and although I can symphonize as to why a person would want to make a career out of the service I fully understand the environmental harm done by the military, their bases and operations in general and my feelings toward the earth outweigh any feelings of loyalty that I might have regarding my short bit of Navy service I did back in the 1960's, I did my time and owe the Navy nothing.

I don't know why you would be confused as to my stance regarding the Navy since we have never discussed it before, maybe you should just ask me instead of listening to what other people think about my service which has so obviously confused you. :rolleyes:

[halva]

Another chemtrails petition:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/7/investigate-persistent-contrails-aka-chemtrails

[jayreynolds]

The FOIA request by Rosalind above is a poor example of how to do one.
This is how to do it:
http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/FOIA.html

[Lou]

And we know This because 'John Boyd Reynolds Jr.' is an EXPERT IN EVERYTHING,.....:rolleyes:.....ESPECIALLY BULLSHIT, RIGHT! :D

[halva]

Another chemtrails petition:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/7/investigate-persistent-contrails-aka-chemtrails

It might be worthwhile really trying to get some signatures for this petition.

In the case of Peter Garrett, Australian Environment Minister, it might be worthwhile lobbying him if thousands of signatures from all over the world can be obtained. He is a guy with a big ego who became famous internationally as singer with the rock band Midnight Oil, and he may welcome the prospect of being an international environmental hero, even on the basis of such a no-no subject as chemtrails.

Also, on the basis of his songs like "Beds are Burning" his ideology is that we "Westerners" are the bad guys and it is all the dispossessed, the "natives" who are in the right. Chemtrails is very good evidence for this viewpoint.

[halva]

Chemtrails over Port Macquarie, Australia

Slide Show
http://www.bluenomore.com/

Radio Interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIHMNOPuOvM

[halva]

The Hollywood Approach to chemtrails
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYUlvEIPqg8&feature=email

[halva]

Flying the dirt-cheap skies
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-25687466;_ylc=X3oDMTFzZWF2ZzRqBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEX3MD MjcxOTQ4MQRzZWMDZnAtdG9kYXltb2QEc2xrA2NoZWFwc2tpZX MtMy0yMy0wOQ--

Pretty cynical title, wouldn't you say?

Flying the Dirt-Cheap Skies

Airfares hit the roof last year as fuel prices skyrocketed. But this year, fuel prices plunged and passenger demand dropped in a recessionary economy, so now carriers are rolling out deep discounts to try and fill planes.

Tom Parsons, Chief Executive of air fare comparison site Bestfares.com calls the discounts "distress airfare sales."

"Right now, the airlines have to cater to the people who want to fly cheap, which is their worst nightmare," he said.

The Air Transport Association of America, the industry trade group, said the average domestic fare for major U.S.-based airlines dropped 15 percent in February, compared with June, 2008, when fares hit a seven-year peak in tandem with record-high fuel prices.

But the lower prices haven't bolstered business. On Friday, the ATA said revenue from domestic and international passengers plunged 19 percent in February, compared with the same month in 2008.

"The sharp decline in spending by passengers and shippers demonstrates how the global recession is taking an increasing toll on the traveling public," said ATA chief economist John Heimlich, in a prepared statement.

This recessionary trend has been going on since last year. On Thursday, the Commerce Department said that travel and tourism prices fell 16 percent in the fourth quarter of 2008. Spending on travel and tourism dropped even more sharply, by 22 percent, during that same period, demonstrating that many Americans are unwilling or unable to take advantage of declining prices.

The deals
Southwest Airlines, a discount carrier, is among the most aggressive in offering low-cost flights. Last week, the domestic airline launched a round of deals between cities all over America, including $39 one-way flights (not including taxes and fees) connecting Houston to other Texas cities like San Antonio and Austin, as well as other connections, like Oklahoma City to Jacksonville, Fla. Southwest also offers connecting major hubs, like $49 for a one-way flight between Chicago and Detroit.

"We've said, in our last earnings, that we are seeing a softer travel demand," said Southwest spokeswoman Brandy King. "In order to stimulate that and get more people on board, we are offering these great deals to get out of town."

There are certain restrictions, like the 21-day advance purchase requirement, with no flying on relatively high demand days like Friday and Sunday.

In an even more direct sign of the times, discount airline JetBlue is offering a "promise program," providing a full refund to any passenger suffering an involuntary job loss prior to their trip. On Tuesday, the airline said it was expanding the program to include its "getaways" vacation packages. The refund applies to flights booked between Feb. 1 and June 1, 2008.

JetBlue is also offering a "buy two, get one free" deal for flights between Boston and the West Coast.

Not just discounters
Legacy carriers have also gotten in on the act. US Airways is offering three-day sales of $39 one-way flights between Las Vegas and Los Angeles or Orange County, and $59 fares from Chicago to Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

Delta Air Lines is offering $39 one-way flights between Chicago and Minneapolis, and between Atlanta and Charlotte, N.C., or Charleston, S.C.

"This is probably a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to buy tickets for air travel," said Rick Seaney, Chief Executive of Farecompare.com, noting that lower fuel prices have helped the airlines survive despite plunging demand from the recession.

"The craziest [deals] are coast-to-coast," said Seaney. "The Holy Grail of air travel is $99 coast-to-coast, and we've seen lots of deals for $99 or less."

The best deals of all
Seaney said that flexibility is key for thrifty air travelers. Those willing to travel on off-peak days like Tuesday and Wednesday have the best chance of finding the best deals, and those willing to incorporate travel packages will find the greatest deals of all.

"This is the first time ever that I've had two [hotel] nights free and a $200 gift card," said Seaney, who had just gotten back to Dallas from a family trip to Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla. "It's the cheapest experience I've ever had at Disney."

Some of the greatest deals are for overseas travel, said Parsons of Bestfares.com, especially for transatlantic trips to Ireland, which has some of the lowest fuel surcharges in Europe. Parsons said he found $315 round-trip air fares between New York City and Dublin for April and May, including all taxes and fees, as well as a $390 flight connecting Dublin to San Francisco.

"This exceeds my expectations," said Parsons. "The leisure traveler and the business traveler are sitting in the pilot seat."

[Lou]

We are moving into warmer weather this time of the year with more humidity at higher altitudes and still we have seen no Persistent Spreading Contrails or, i.e. Chemtrail Spraying activity here in our Maine sky's,

Our sky has been devoid of any deliberate spraying all this past winter and now that we have moved into spring, still noting but the occasional "normal" commercial aircraft contrail seen which all have been of a very short duration to date if they leave any contrail at all.

In reading posts from other forums and getting email reports from people, it seems the present concentration of heavy Chemtrail activity within the U.S. is centered up and down the west coast, both the PNW and Southern California have been getting hit hard, occasional reports of heavy spraying are coming from the mid Atlantic states south to Florida but there not getting the steady everyday heavy spraying as is being seen on the west coast these past several months.

Usually by now as we enter spring here in Maine we begin to see the untracked aircraft increase as does the spraying that accompanies them, so far all that we have been observing is our normal light and local commercial air traffic, things have been so quiet here regarding any spraying that it's become rather boring looking for the telling signs of any trails every day in our sky's. (We hope it remains that way, boring blue sky is a good thing. ;) :cool: :D)

[halva]

Similarly Aigina and Athens have not been sprayed as heavily recently as in previous years at this time.

But the "noctilucent" cloud over the Athens sky seen from a distance remains a familiar rather sinister night-time phenomenon.

[Lou]

I find it very telling that over the winter months from the end of November to date our sky's have been free of any abnormal trail activity in spite of those who say that more Persistent Spreading Contrails are seen to form in the winter months, I can attest to the fact, that has not been the case here over New Hampshire and Maine at all this winter.

As I stated in my prior post it has become somewhat boring going out and looking for any signs of Chemtrail activity each day as there has been none for so long now but it's a good kind of boring. :D

Today was a prime example of "NORMAL" sky's for us, I checked the Upper Air Data and the highest humidity level at altitude was only in the low 30% range, less as the day wore on and due points where in the -86 % range, super dry with no ice conditions at all. This produced predictably, really clear sky's with not a trace of a contrail all day, at least none that I observed and I was out most of the afternoon, looking and I saw no contrails whatsoever.

We where treated to the "NORMAL" kind of sky's that we use to see everyday here in the high North East again today, as I said, like we have seen all winter to date. There just seems to be no spraying going on here so far this year and that's strange as compared to the past several years when the Chemtrailing was quite heavy by now and being observed on nearly a daily bases over parts of Maine or New Hampshire.

When I get up every morning and look out our kitchen window I keep expecting to see the sky chalk marked with Chemtrails but so far all that I have been seeing is normal clear sky scenes that are free of them.

We see clouds to but there the natural verity, not the man made sick looking yellow / brownish type or the high thin milky white spreading type. It's really good to see NORMAL and NATURAL, I only hope, for you as well, it continues.

Actually to be fair I'd like to see this madness called Chemtrail Spraying taking place in our sky's worldwide revert back to NORMAL and NATURAL sky's for everyone_as it should be.

[dewey189]

Perhaps it stopped because they've completed their studies.