View Full Version : It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature
halva
05-18-2007, 05:03 AM
Is this what it takes to save the world?
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v447/n7141/full/447132a.html
halva
05-20-2007, 03:21 PM
Two Greek parliamentarians have brought up the chemtrails issue in parliament and their party is having a conference this weekend on its European policy.
Their party is the Synaspismos (Coalition of the Left):
http://www.syn.gr/en/profile.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_the_Left%2C_of_Movements_and_Ecology
Their politics is by no means perfect and would get on the nerves of conservatives. But they are the only ones to have touched the chemtrails issue and they certainly haven't taken it very far. They are absolute beginners.
Travelling for English examinations to the city of Larissa in Thessaly I established contact with the people who urged Asimina Xirotiri to bring up in the Greek parliament the question of chemtrails over Larissa.
halva
05-21-2007, 07:24 PM
22nd November 2006
From the Parliamentarian of the Synaspismos A. Xirotiri
Into the parliament….the white trails in the skies of Larissa
by Dimitris Vallas
The subject has finally made it into parliament - the subject being the mysterious white trails from aircraft which appear at regular intervals in the sky over Larissa. With her point of departure an article in the Sunday “Eleftherotypia” newspaper the parliamentarian of Thessaloniki 2nd district Asimina Xirotiri-Aikaterinari submitted a question to the Hellenic Parliament. However, apart from scenarios of programmes for dealing with the greenhouse phenomenon with spraying of metal oxides, the parliamentarian of the Synaspismos also posed questions about the control of the ionosphere, linking it to the HAARP system. This is a scenario according to which continual spraying with aluminium oxide would increase the conductivity of the atmosphere, assisting HAARP, which many consider a “superweapon”, given that apart from affecting telecommunications it can also influence climatic conditions in many areas of the planet. These trails continue to be a cause of concern to the people of Larissa, as no official answer has been forthcoming and already the spraying (chemtrails) has been the subject of widespread discussion on the Internet, having been observed in many countries. An impression has been made by reports on the Internet from inhabitants of a town in Canada whose inhabitants following similar spraying suffered from severe headaches, joint pains, dizziness, fatigue, sudden loss of memory and symptoms of exhaustion. More or less, in other words, as if they had come down with flu, but without developing a fever.
The question in the parliament
Specifically, addressing the ministers of the Environment, Physical Planning and Public Works, Agriculture Development and Foodstuffs and Transport, Mrs. Xirotiri asked for an answer concerning the reason for the white trails in the skies over Larissa. “In photographs of the horizon in the region of Larissa, taken in 2004 but also more recently (8th and 9th September 2006) there are obvious lines which resemble the familiar condensation trails, that is to say the lines left behind by jet-propelled passenger aircraft. But this explanation does not appear to apply given that in a normal condensation the cloud that is created does not remain in the air but is normally dispersed, whereas in this case the white lines become denser and spread out all over the sky, initially forming various patterns and ending up as a light covering of cloud which remains in the sky for many hours. The question accordingly arises of whether these trails are caused by aircraft of the Meteorological Service carrying out measurements related to the weather, whether they are part of a programme of protection against hail, whether they are part of a programme with aluminium and barium oxides in clusters of polymers (a programme for dealing with the greenhouse phenomenon) or whether they are part of a programme for studying the characteristics and the behaviour of the ionosphere to strengthen telecommunications and monitoring systems for civilian and military purposes, known as HAARP (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program).
Because it is expedient that we, and particularly the residents of the area, should know the real reasons for this phenomenon, the ministers are asked:
"What is the programme of which these flights are a part and are there are dangers involved for residents or for the environment?”
Boomer Chick
05-26-2007, 10:00 AM
Halva,
I watched most of your video yesterday. It took nearly all day to load but suddenly it was playing. I thought I had canceled it, but indeed I had minimized it without knowing. At any rate, I assume the man narrating was you. I suggest you tell the audience who you are in the next film you make. Why did you leave that out? The flute at the beginning and the end was good, but did you realize how close that style and flute playing is to Native American genres of flute music? For an American, that was a bit incongruous, if you know what I mean. But still, it was a nice touch.
I will watch it again, as I listened to it only during the meeting, actually, because I was posting and reading on the net and really was quite upset with you for your distasteful remarks about my posting and Lou's health. Very uncalled for.
You are still on ignore for me, but I just wanted to pop in on your thread and let you know that I will look at your video with more focus, soon. That little village was the only one to look seriously at the problem of persisting contrails? Very interesting and you must be extremely intelligent to speak two languages so articulately. You look nice, you sounded nice, you behaved nicely, and you are intelligent. So why are you so rude?
halva
05-28-2007, 05:03 PM
Halva,
I watched most of your video yesterday. It took nearly all day to load but suddenly it was playing. I thought I had canceled it, but indeed I had minimized it without knowing. At any rate, I assume the man narrating was you. I suggest you tell the audience who you are in the next film you make. Why did you leave that out? The flute at the beginning and the end was good, but did you realize how close that style and flute playing is to Native American genres of flute music? For an American, that was a bit incongruous, if you know what I mean. But still, it was a nice touch.
I will watch it again, as I listened to it only during the meeting, actually, because I was posting and reading on the net and really was quite upset with you for your distasteful remarks about my posting and Lou's health. Very uncalled for.
You are still on ignore for me, but I just wanted to pop in on your thread and let you know that I will look at your video with more focus, soon. That little village was the only one to look seriously at the problem of persisting contrails? Very interesting and you must be extremely intelligent to speak two languages so articulately. You look nice, you sounded nice, you behaved nicely, and you are intelligent. So why are you so rude?
Why am I so rude? If you have me on ignore is there any point explaining again?
I explained in this post:
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=803826&postcount=71
This forum seems to be moving in new directions. Lou appears to have dropped out. The fact is, BC, that your absence of practical solidarity against the debunkers and your habit of overloading us with information are both deterrent factors. Even if the only final result of all that fighting is to have the board as it is now I don't mind having expended so much energy if from now on the debunkers are no longer setting the parameters for discussion here.
I'm glad you liked the video BC. I hope it will help us further get our act together in Greece.
yes, Boomer-ass's antics are a turn-off for readers and myself....these are supposed to be discussion groups not "copy-n- paste-as-much-shit-as-possible" to support one assholes opinion.
People interested in chemtrails will easily move away from this forum and find better places like Carnicom.com.
This same ol' shit gets old..been there.. done that
Kola:cool:
[QUOTE=halva;806071]
This forum seems to be moving in new directions. Lou appears to have dropped out.[QUOTE]
Wayne_I have not "Dropped out" as you put it but I do have a life other than posting on message boards endlessly, life demands that I addend to more important matters than going over the same old, same old crap which some people seem to want to do just to waste everyone's time.
You are all supposedly intelligent people and I can not understand why you continuously fall for the same BS that comes from people who have been away from this Science section of DBS for quite some time but now all of a sudden return to flood the threads with cut and paste distractions and long winded post going over the same well trodden ground.
I have no time for this sort of deceit by agreement ploy whether it is intentional or not, I have better things to do than play someone's version of twenty questions when the answers are as obvious as their time wasting agenda is.
My priorities right now do not include playing head games with those people who have nothing better to do than post continuously in the above manner, remodeling demands to our home far outweigh anything that I am reading going on here on this board.
If and when I read something that hints of having some common sense to it, then I might entertain responding, until that happens_by all means, enjoy this steaming heap of dog crap to your hearts content.
yeah Lou..jeffyboy is busy posting to himself on his own forum and I am hoping his presence here would be less..but lo and behold fucking Boomerbutt comes here shitting all over the place and never wiping her fat fuckin ass...if it ain't one asshole spurting our fecal matter its another..
take it away Boomerbitch..its all fuckin yurs.
Kola
halva
05-28-2007, 08:56 PM
Because it is not possible to keep up with BC's postings, and because her whole approach is so far from the "pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will" stance that fits our terrible subject, I think inevitably one starts thinking where one can invest one's time and energy more profitably for the limited period that one has available.
Perhaps it really would be better for BC to go back to the main part of the forum where some posters appreciate her more than almost any of us do here.
And also where she is perhaps more needed. This is what Dewey appears to have done since her "conversion". And David Stewart, too, does not post here in the science section, despite the fact that his interests are largely scientific.
There are more than enough websites that post credible information without being subjected to assholes in discussion forums.
Kola
halva
05-28-2007, 09:09 PM
An English teacher in Kiato, Greece, is organizing a public meeting on chemtrails next month, with Nikos Katsaros speaking. She has also invited the parliamentarian Asimina Xirotiri.
Jeff Reynolds
05-29-2007, 01:06 AM
Posted by Lou Aubuchont/ J Vitum/ Mom_p_3/ Tracker:
...Wayne_I have not "Dropped out" as you put it but I do have a life other than posting on message boards endlessly, life demands that I addend to more important matters than going over the same old, same old crap which some people seem to want to do just to waste everyone's time.
Lou Aubuchont as "Tracker" (http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=48&sid=6c699cdbde6d9645a74b5a63127e9fdf#48)
Boomer Chick
05-29-2007, 06:48 AM
[quote=halva;806071]
This forum seems to be moving in new directions. Lou appears to have dropped out.[quote]
Wayne_I have not "Dropped out" as you put it but I do have a life other than posting on message boards endlessly, life demands that I addend to more important matters than going over the same old, same old crap which some people seem to want to do just to waste everyone's time.
You are all supposedly intelligent people and I can not understand why you continuously fall for the same BS that comes from people who have been away from this Science section of DBS for quite some time but now all of a sudden return to flood the threads with cut and paste distractions and long winded post going over the same well trodden ground.
I have no time for this sort of deceit by agreement ploy whether it is intentional or not, I have better things to do than play someone's version of twenty questions when the answers are as obvious as their time wasting agenda is.
My priorities right now do not include playing head games with those people who have nothing better to do than post continuously in the above manner, remodeling demands to our home far outweigh anything that I am reading going on here on this board.
If and when I read something that hints of having some common sense to it, then I might entertain responding, until that happens_by all means, enjoy this steaming heap of dog crap to your hearts content.
DECEIT?? Sir, I think you have a problem with reality. How dare you attempt to characterize someone you do not know and someone who has always been sincere.
You are free to post your opinions and views on subjects and issues, but sir, you do not have the right to call names and assume you are justified in your character assassinations.
What a nasty and negative attitude. I can't say I'm sorry you're taking a break. I never attacked you and I only asked sincere questions. If you can't tell that, then perhaps you need to work on your house a bit and come back refreshed.
halva
05-30-2007, 06:48 AM
Chemtrails on the North Shore (Boston, MA)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NDe6Byow50Q
[quote=Lou;806125][quote=halva;806071]
This forum seems to be moving in new directions. Lou appears to have dropped out.
DECEIT?? Sir, I think you have a problem with reality. How dare you attempt to characterize someone you do not know and someone who has always been sincere.
You are free to post your opinions and views on subjects and issues, but sir, you do not have the right to call names and assume you are justified in your character assassinations.
What a nasty and negative attitude. I can't say I'm sorry you're taking a break. I never attacked you and I only asked sincere questions. If you can't tell that, then perhaps you need to work on your house a bit and come back refreshed.
Ah,.. BRAVO "Chickiedeb" / Boomer Chick, all of that indignant self righteousness played so well, you should get an award or something for that acting performance.
I'm not opposed to the material that your posting, in fact, most of it is interesting if not old news, my problem with you is that I question the "reason" why you have come back to this section out of the blue, FLOODING it with so many post the average person can not possibly keep up with them all, you must spend every waking hour 24/7 hovering over your keyboard, much the same as your good DEBUNKER friend 'Jay Reynolds' use to do, what ever happened to him anyway, Oh well, Se La Vie and good riddance.
"DECEIT?? Sir, I think you have a problem with reality. How dare you attempt to characterize someone you do not know and someone who has always been sincere."
Well Hell honey, if you're good friend Reynolds can do it to everyone, WHY can't I do it to you, fair is fair, right, you certainly would not deny me what you condone of your DEBUNKER friend, would you?
"You are free to post your opinions and views on subjects and issues, but sir, you do not have the right to call names and assume you are justified in your character assassinations."
Well gee Boomer, how many times have we watched you stand by and say nothing when your Debunker buddy Reynolds was performing just such "character assassinations" as you are now protesting, isn't that rather hypocritical of you in accepting Reynolds behavior, but not mine, I'd call that outright discrimination on your part.
"What a nasty and negative attitude. I can't say I'm sorry you're taking a break. I never attacked you and I only asked sincere questions. If you can't tell that, then perhaps you need to work on your house a bit and come back refreshed."
Your "sincere questions" feel like bait to me, like you are trolling for your good DEBUNKER friend Reynolds, setting people up for his attacks, I get the feeling that where you go, so goes that DIRTBAG ARKANSAS DEBUNKER,
If I seem to have a "nasty and negative attitude" TOWARDS YOU, then you should know, perhaps better than most that I have earned it in dealing with those people like your good DEBUNKER friend 'Jay Reynolds' while FENCE SITTERS like you suck up to the infamous creations like Reynolds,.... and I should trust you because?
If you don't like what I posted to 'Wayne' that's just to dammed bad, isn't it?
I don't trust you_period because of your close association with Jay Reynolds, I could care less what you think of my post to Wayne_and that dear Boomer " Is" my opinion.
shes a troll, lou...no doubt.
halva
05-30-2007, 09:43 PM
She is not a troll, in my view. She is a jumped up schoolteacher who thinks she can turn the world into her classroom. And she is defenceless against real trolls.
i think yur right halva..she has that school marm mentality..prolly taught pre-school.
halva
05-31-2007, 03:54 AM
I wouldn't mind her if she could understand that by being friendly to the debunkers or doing anything other than just ignoring them (leave it to others to fight them, and the same advice to Footsoldier!!!) she is just undoing work that others spend much unpaid time and effort doing. By what right?
The information overload is irritating. It would be good if she could give more of it in a form that shows she herself has mastered it. But it is forgiveable. The stance towards the debunkers is not.
Boomer Chick
05-31-2007, 09:13 AM
1. I am not "chickiedeb" and never was.
2. I did not support Reynolds in his character assassinations of anyone.
3. I remained objective with Reynolds and I did like the fact that he is an organic farmer and very conscious of his own energy usage. He controlled himself when I was posting here with more adult maturity than Halva and IS. Period. Stuart was the worst.
4. I argued with Reynolds on various issues.
5. He attempted to be objective with the knowledge presented here and when on the subject he was appropriate in his style. He's no paid agent. Those who think he is are paranoid.
5. I don't care what strangers think and Lou, you're a rude asshole --- period. You don't know me and you think I am friends with Reynolds and you, like Halva, think some kind of war is being waged and THAT is the mentality of war and not peace. You're a loser and a foul-mouthed creep to even write what you wrote. FUCK YOU !!!
6. I taught music in elementary through 6 th grade and English lit in highschool. I subbed in highschool in science, music, and English.
7. I am semi-retired and teach piano in my home and when it rains here and I can't go out and garden, or buzz around town, I love to post, but I'm not here all the time.
8. I didn't leave this board. I posted on the "Current Events" section and left this area because only Halva was here. WMM started his own board, Stuart went back to Mav's, Ed Snell popped in now and then, and Footsoldier slowed down, too.
9. I returned because global warming has reached a point of public awareness where Current Events posters were posting on it. I revisited because I was curious about the subject and what had been going on down here in terms of research and discussion.
9. Not much. Nada. Zilch.
10. I asked questions and was not baiting anyone. I don't bait. I may think outloud and question certain things, but I don't bait just to irritate another person.
11. Don't trust people you don't know, but don't act like an asshole and assume you know them and know their character. Only total losers act that way. So far, the losers here are losers only because of what they post and what they don't post.
12. I don't interact, beyond setting boundaries, with losers.
TA! TA!
:cool:
haven't you fuckin noticed? we really do not care.kola
Boomer Chick_Maybe this will refresh your memory or at the least help your understanding of my post, then again, guilty is as guilty does.
__________________________________
1. I am not "chickiedeb" and never was.
If that is true then, ( and I know that it isn't ) you say your not "Chickiedeb" but you obviously know who and what I am referring to, why is that, your obvious recondition of the name and denial is showing through like a flashing neon sign.
Since you seem to want to continue this charade, shall I explain to the readers just how it is that I believe that you are a LIAR and far more involved with helping 'Jay Reynolds' debunk efforts on those who only believe that he is working alone?
Nothing would please me more than if I was completely wrong about you but to many things just do not add up about you and 'Reynolds' and I have to treat you accordenly.
Alright, you asked for it, here it is for everyone to see.
If you are not "Checkiedeb" then how is it possible that you initiated a telephone call to S.T. Brendt a few years ago with regard to the Chemtrail Spraying that she had observed and reported on back in March of 2001, and why did you identified yourself as 'Boomer Chick" sometimes known as "Chickiedeb"?
This is something that we have kept to ourselves until now because although your calling S.T.Brendt was highly odd to say the least, we thought that your story of getting S.T. Brendt's private telephone number from a friend of 'Will Thomas' as you claimed was highly questionable, S.T. thought the entire conversation with you was a fishing trip on your part as you asked so many questions with regard to the events of March 12, 2001, where we lived exactly, on and on, etc, etc.
So, if this was not you that called,( we have no reasone to believe that it was not you.) it was someone pretending to be you, using your online identities, hard to believe that anyone would do such a thing,... isn't it?
Oh, it gets even deeper.
Now jumping ahead, it was not until your DEBUNKER friend 'Jay Reynolds' made the following post that I put "Chickiedeb" and you "Boomer Chick" together in the context of you and 'Reynolds' working together, I believe that anyone will understand why it is that I do not trust you and believe that you are working directly with 'Reynolds' in his debunking and attack efforts.
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=52632&page=13
Quote: Jay Reynolds.
"Chickiedeb, who captured the images on my flight study of your area did, however, use the Personal Edition, which I understand is quite good."
________________________________________
Well, there you are, first you call 'S.T. Brendt' and identify yourself as "Chickiedeb", then your not so clever debunker friend 'Reynolds' out's you in a post in which he is more interested in defending his own stupidity.
I may not be a collage graduate with two degrees like you but I was not born yesterday, my bullshit detector is pretty accurate, however if I am wrong in accusing you of being this "Chickiedeb" then I suggest you take the matter up with your good debunker friend 'Jay Reynolds', obviously he knows just who "Chickiedeb" is and therefor who may have been impersonating you when calling S.T. Brendt.
I'm not trying to do a number on you here, we have never had a problem with each other until now, have we, the phone call was real and I have related the information accurately, it is because of these events and the way they have unfolded over time that makes me question you only now.
It's obvious that this could just be one of 'Reynolds" more elaborate schemes to evolve innocent bystanders but if that is what it is, then he has caused your credibility a great deal of harm and if I where you I would be to say the least_pissed off but you really can not blame S.T. Brendt or myself for believing that you are in league with the internets most vile and infamous debunker.
2. I did not support Reynolds in his character assassinations of anyone.
No, you have not supported 'Reynolds" in his many, many character assassinations but you have stood by and watched his ruthless vile attacks, said nothing and then carried on with him as though he was a saint.
Sometimes ones inaction speaks just as loudly as real action does if not more so.
3. I remained objective with Reynolds and I did like the fact that he is an organic farmer and very conscious of his own energy usage. He controlled himself when I was posting here with more adult maturity than Halva and IS. Period. Stuart was the worst.
I do not care that he is an organic onion farmer or whether or not he is 'green minded' ( Charles Manson liked to garden, your point? ), it is how he conducts himself with those he attacks regarding Chemtrails and other issues that I take issue with.
You accuse me of being rude,...Ha,...that's laughable considering that 'Jay Reynolds' has the reputation worldwide on the internet of being the most rude, obnoxious, piggish individual ever to invade the message boards, ( why has he been banned from so many?) why do hold this guy up like he is some shinning star of virtue, you can not be that delusional?
I am not discussing Halva, IS, Stuart or anyone else, just you 'Reynolds' and what appears to be a working relationship between the two of you.
4. I argued with Reynolds on various issues.
Yes, and I should pat you on the back for that , no doubt even his good friends (if any) argue with him because he is such a Narcissistic puke, I have seen very few people that do not argue with him, mostly those who have the sense to ignore him.
5. He attempted to be objective with the knowledge presented here and when on the subject he was appropriate in his style. He's no paid agent. Those who think he is are paranoid.
See, there you go again, defending him as though he is a God in your eyes, what the HELL is up with that crap?
5. I don't care what strangers think and Lou, you're a rude asshole --- period. You don't know me and you think I am friends with Reynolds and you, like Halva, think some kind of war is being waged and THAT is the mentality of war and not peace. You're a loser and a foul-mouthed creep to even write what you wrote. FUCK YOU !!!
Oh now, really 'Chickiedeb / Boomer Chick', come on, "I'm rude, a looser and a foul mouthed creep?", have I called you an "ASSHOLE" have I used such foul language as "FUCK YOU" like you just have, that's not exactly the behavior one would expect to see from a school teacher who has two degrees, perhaps you believe that kind of behavior is acceptable for a supposed lady, Hmmmm, who is the real "ASSHOLE" here that is being a rude FOUL MOUTHED creep?
No, there is no "WAR" being waged as you put it, but perhaps there should be a "WAR" against big oil, the pharmaceutical monopolies, our corrupt government, etc,etc,...but that is discussion for other parts of this forum, not the distraction that you would use it as.
6. I taught music in elementary through 6 (th) grade and English lit in (highschool). I subbed in (highschool) in science, music, and English. ( You, are an English lit teacher with two degrees?_amazing.)
7. I am semi-retired and teach piano in my home and when it rains here and I can't go out and garden, or buzz around town, I love to post, but I'm not here all the time.
Yes, you already explained your resume to S.T. Brendt some time back, we where not impressed then or now, even less now with your "ASSHOLE", "FUCK YOU" comments,.... how stupid is that?
8. I didn't leave this board. I posted on the "Current Events" section and left this area because only Halva was here. WMM started his own board, Stuart went back to Mav's, Ed Snell popped in now and then, and Footsoldier slowed down, too.
9. I returned because global warming has reached a point of public awareness where Current Events posters were posting on it. I revisited because I was curious about the subject and what had been going on down here in terms of research and discussion.
I just find it odd that you disappeared for quite some time and then came back posting like a woman possessed, obviously you had a lot built up that you just had to get out then.
9. Not much. Nada. Zilch.
10. I asked questions and was not baiting anyone. I don't bait. I may think outloud and question certain things, but I don't bait just to irritate another person.
See the above "Chickiedeb" / 'Reynolds' connection and ask yourself if you where me if you would not be just a tad suspicious of "your" motives, put yourself in my shoes, S.T.Brendt's shoes.
11. Don't trust people you don't know, but don't act like an asshole and assume you know them and know their character. Only total losers act that way. So far, the losers here are losers only because of what they post and what they don't post.
There you go again with the lovely, un-lady like oration's which in fact very much fall back on you as being the "looser" here, please,... point out to everyone where I have used such language directed to you?
12. I don't interact, beyond setting boundaries, with losers.
You would do well to set some boundaries on your own mouth considering that you are / where an English lit teacher in high school, is this foul language an example of how you taught your students?
Another thing, your sentence structure is just horrible for someone with two degrees, an English lit teacher at that, not that it matters on these forums, it's just that I assumed that you would write somewhat better given your education, oh well, so much you using it, you swear pretty good though. (Sigh)
"Chickiedeb" / Boomer Chick,...whichever, whoever you are, you have a nice day now.
This could be grounds for permanently banning chickedeb/boomer.
halva
05-31-2007, 02:09 PM
Yes, if the charges against BC are without foundation that is all the more reason why they should be supported.
dewey189
05-31-2007, 02:15 PM
This could be grounds for permanently banning chickedeb/boomer.LOL! Bang your head against that wall too kola.
BUSTED
good work Lou
Well Kola, it's not good work on my part, it's just the way things have gone down, I would just as soon not believe that Boomer is league with that reptile Lord Reynolds but it seems that she is after all, it's a pretty sad for those who thought well of her.
By her running away from the issue, it would appear that "Chickiedeb" and 'Boomer Chick' are indeed one and the same sense she does not deny making the call in question to S.T.Brendt in which she identified herself as not only 'Boomer Chick' but also "Chickiedeb".
As I stated in a prior post, "Guilty is as guilty does" and right now 'Boomer chick' / 'Chickiedeb" looks very much guilty of everything that I laid out in my post about her being in league with the grand debunker 'Lord Reynolds"
And just for the record, it is 'Boomer Chick' / 'Chickiedeb' that is the FOUL MOUTH, ASSHOLE CREEP because I sure never used language like that on her, she is obviously NO lady.
I will call her a deceitful, treacherous, lying piece of lowlife scum though, what a two faced piece of work she is. :rolleyes:
halva
05-31-2007, 06:34 PM
If your accusation is true it would truly seem that she is not just the dopy schoolteacher role that she plays.
Jeff Reynolds
05-31-2007, 06:39 PM
People should read the ctc thread with Lou Aubuchont as "Tracker". They should look at how Jay Reynolds ended up on some obscure website talking about dogwoods blooming. An objective read of this says that Lou and Jay are part of a script. Throw in Halvar continually turning chemtrail awareness into a dumbass tinfoil drama, then one starts to understand that chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.
CDsNuTz
05-31-2007, 06:58 PM
The never ending broken record and on and on and on..Weren't you done with us???
chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)
chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)
chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)
chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)
chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)
chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)
chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not.(blip)
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CDsNuTz
05-31-2007, 07:00 PM
I see you've changed it to "may be chemtrails", starting to doubt yourself jeff?
If your accusation is true it would truly seem that she is not just the dopy schoolteacher role that she plays.
Well Wayne_would what I have laid out with regard to 'Boomer Chicks' behavior be anymore believable for you if I had 'S.T. Brendt' tell it to you in her own words about the phone call and what was said between them?
I would offer you up some blood evidence but I just don't have it, your just going to have to decide for yourself who is more credible on this matter, myself or "Chickiedeb" / 'Boomer Chick'.
It would seem that her silence on the matter is speaking volumes as to her guilt. :rolleyes:
I see you've changed it to "may be chemtrails", starting to doubt yourself jeff?
Is that paranoia peddler, debunker want to be Jeff what's his name still hanging around here babbling like the fool he is, I thought he was off starting his own blow blog or some such Irrelevant thing_GOD, what a dope he is. :rolleyes:
Jeff Reynolds
05-31-2007, 07:46 PM
I see you've changed it to "may be chemtrails", starting to doubt yourself jeff? I said chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not. Yeah, maybe I fucked up. I definitely believe that chemtrails are real, but that fakes like u from the "swampgas co." are not.
Jeff Reynolds
05-31-2007, 07:49 PM
Lou Aubuchont is not a real person.
Lou as Tracker: http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=48&sid=fcc09cd87a9ec7f6822a940a4b23824f#48
And then one wonders why Jay Reynolds posted at an obscure forum wondering about when dogwoods bloom. It's because there is a script by low level astroturfers, these are fake believers and fake debunkers all over the major chemtrail boards. They are fascists. They have been exposed.
halva
05-31-2007, 08:11 PM
Yeah, maybe I fucked up.
.
halva
05-31-2007, 08:32 PM
Well Wayne_would what I have laid out with regard to 'Boomer Chicks' behavior be anymore believable for you if I had 'S.T. Brendt' tell it to you in her own words about the phone call and what was said between them?
I would offer you up some blood evidence but I just don't have it, your just going to have to decide for yourself who is more credible on this matter, myself or "Chickiedeb" / 'Boomer Chick'.
It would seem that her silence on the matter is speaking volumes as to her guilt. :rolleyes:
Are Lou's charges against you true BC?
You ask her please Dewey, if she has me on ignore.
CDsNuTz
05-31-2007, 08:36 PM
I said chemtrails may be real, but chemtrail forums are not. Yeah, maybe I fucked up..
I know exactly what you said, you must have missed the last post on the page before...
The never ending broken record and on and on and on..Weren't you done with us???
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]
I definitely believe that chemtrails are real, but that fakes like u from the "swampgas co." are not.
What the hell is that supposed to mean?? Prove I don't believe there are chemtrails..
CDsNuTz
05-31-2007, 08:39 PM
OOPS!!
Originally Posted by Jeff Reynolds
Yeah, maybe I fucked up.
_________________________
OMG, YOU THINK?
WHAT A DOPE. :rolleyes:
Jeffy Boy_PUT THE GLASS PIPE DOWN, STEP AWAY FROM THE DOPE_DOPE. :rolleyes:
Boomer Chick
05-31-2007, 11:29 PM
Mr. Lou,
You and I are not so far apart in age and I am going to let you have it. First of all, I'll express myself with profoundly graphic language if I so choose. I know WHEN and WHERE it is appropriate and you will not pull your sexist bullshit on me nor your stereotypes of what a teacher or a lady should be. It's a male control tactic and I know it and you know it. So cut the shit !! I am a lady and have no need to prove it to you!
Second of all, I did not come back to this board in the manner you depicted. Not at all. In fact I didn't read anything anyone wrote on any threads except for the a couple of pages on my threads and on FS's and it wasn't until tonight that I even read Jeff's. There was a lot of hostility aimed at me, suddenly, and it was weird.
You have misinterpreted me from the moment you started reading my posts, obviously, and given your misguided and misinformed notions, it is understandable to a degree, but given your age, you could have chosen to act more maturely. I read about your background when you were so upset that May and Jeff attacked you for no reason. It's precisely how I feel about you and so you can imagine how angry I was at your attacking me for what I felt was no reason. I was sincere in my questions to you. Can you deal with the fact that I felt the military hierarchy of secrecy should be changed? Oh excuuuuuuse me! How backwards of me to even mention and how totally phoney!!!
Now, for the entre. I decided to read your reaction tonight although I have you, Lou, on ignore. First of all, I had not even interacted with Jay Reynolds until I joined this board which was what? 2005? You can read the links and see that I didn't know him although his reputation over at CTC was discussed and Halva had begged people to join him over here to fight the big bad Reynolds. When I was a member of CTC in 2003? I worked on local campaigns in 2004 and created my own board after leaving CTC. I first joined an online board in February of 2002 and it was a Yahoo board with my first given name and a number. My first name is Laurel. The board was called New World Disorder and it was on that board where I was introduced to the concept that 911 could be an inside job. I thought the posters who believed in that were totally nuts and it took me months and months to a couple of years and a couple of books to research the subject. But, that's another topic. So, I didn't even know what boards were about until Feb. 2002 and I don't know what you're talking about regarding phone calls or the names of those people and why someone would call that person? I didn't know that Reynolds had been attacking various boards for years until I arrived here -- Jan. 2005? Reynolds gave me his website link and was proud of it. It was a nicely done site and I didn't agree with everything but was kind.
I treated everyone with respect unless they personally attacked me over and over again, like IS, and then I complained and got him banned and called him insane. Reynold's only harassed Footsoldier about something I can't even remember now and she stood her ground. She was and is quite capable of defending herself and did a good job. His stance of accusing "chemmies" of "hoaxing" was one of my big lecture topics with him. I used to tell him to "mellow out," too.
So Lou, you're wrong and I was angry with you and you can ask anyone who's posted on a board with chickiedeb that I am not and never was that poster and have only used two names online....Boomer Chick and my first real name. I have a proboards board, too, that is just sitting there if you'd like to see it. I compiled information on the 2004 election and Jerseyblueyez joined along with some others after we left CTC, but it was not that exciting. Even WMM joined. I designed the board and kind of like it. It's the D & L Cafe. I have to ask WMM for the link because I don't have the addy as it was in my favorites which were lost when we got a new computer last year and the favorites I asked to be transferred, weren't. I'm not that great with computers.
Yes, it was on this Arianna Huffington board in late 2004 or early 2005 where I first met Jay Reynolds. That's it. Do you think just because the word "chick" is in common that this is your connection to your theory that I am somehow an accomplice of Reynolds in his earlier days and "chickiedeb" has to be the same poster as Boomer Chick because of the word, "chick?" That's a rather flimsy and surface kind of connection isn't it? It doesn't make sense to me. It's like saying that a poster named Dickwad has to be the same poster as Dickhead. Just has to be! Come on, you're not that unintelligent. Are you?
My husband has back problems, my father had Multiple Sclerosis and he's passed over. We raised two sons and put them through college and they're both graduated and working in their fields and I can relax in life for a change.
I've always been open to the concept of purposeful contrails and still am. I was never a debunker and never would consider harassing other boards. I was amazed that Reynold's did that sort of thing and wondered why he was so obsessed. And again, I try to give everyone space and I would call him on things, but for the most part, Reynolds, as I said, behaved more maturely and more intelligently than either Halva or IS. Sorry, but it's true. Halva was always more involved with the social aspects than with a topic and was irritating as hell. IS would get into a topic and then freak out if I scientifically proved him wrong. Oh yes. Reynolds, Yaak, and Stu would also refute IS's statements and theories with sound science and chemistry facts. At least I remember a bit of high school chemistry. So, I have never wanted, had the need to, or took a stance of any strong measure against the notion of purposeful contrail formation or spraying. If you can present me with evidence, I am still open. I haven't seen the sparklies nor the webs, but I've seen contrails in patterns forming overcast and I've photographed them and shared them with others online and off. Because i could see good in another person whom you deem your "enemy" is no reason to then hate me and accuse me of being someone I'm not. In this sense, you are no better ethically than Reynolds was at the zenith or depth of his tirade against 'chemmies.'
Boomer Chick
05-31-2007, 11:31 PM
A friend is someone you call on the phone and chat with and could invite to visit in your home. I was an acquaintance of Reynold's, not a friend. I was a friend of JerseyBlueyez and we called one another on the phone and sent Christmas cards. So, no, I wouldn't call Jay Reynolds a friend of mine, but I wouldn't mind my husband and I meeting him in person and visiting his beautiful farm.
So, this is about it. You've called me names and I know about your physical condition and will not accept your physical condition as an excuse for your less than stellar behavior. You are free, you know, to post anything you want about purposeful spraying and pics galore. So how am I impeding your freedom of research and expression? I never attacked you although you interpreted it as such. I'm sorry you're so defensive and that you listened to halva's lies about me. He always wanted me to "hate" Reynolds and I refused to go there. I don't behave as though I'm throwing snowballs at others. But if I'm personally attacked, by God I'll give you hell !
I was never a debunker, never knew or even heard of Reynolds back in 2001 and didn't know about online boards. My oldest son was just graduating from college and my youngest had just graduated from highschool in 2000 and at his first year in college. After Sept. 11th, I started looking for my high school classmates at classmates.com and then joined a board. It was also the spring of 2002 when we were introduced to Coast to Coast radio by our piano tuner. He knows Dannion Brinkley, too. Yes, I know...it's all so quaint isn't it? It was around then that Mark Hazelwood started his Planet X crap and I was motivated to go to Art Bell's website and the yahoo board discussing Planet X. From there I hopped over to New World Disorder. I made friends on that board, two of whom moved to our town and then married and moved to Texas where her parents live. I e-mail two others. Yes, I had way too much time on my hands and I still do.
So, I wasn't even aware of chemtrails back when Reynold's was trolling and I first heard about them on the Yahoo board in 2002 and was motivated to seek out others who were open about a year or two later. That's when I joined CTC. But I spent more time researching and discussing 911 than anything else. Curtail anyone's freedom of thought and research on any subject and especially if its a theme of a board, and my sense of justice blooms!
I have to blame Halva for some of this because he couldn't stand that I could even tolerate Reynolds. Hey! If Reynolds played Mr. Nice Guy while I was around, that's what I saw. He wasn't all that nice, but compared to you, kola, and Halva, he was a gentleman. He eventually stopped harassing Footsoldier and halva always asked for it. Reynolds seems to have mellowed. I doubt he has the time to devote to chasing people around the net, even at youtube. His mother died and that Morgellans woman almost sued him and I think he's taken some self reflections to heart. Give people a chance to grow and change......we are all works in progress.
And I would say FUCK YOU again if you attacked me out of the blue the way you did. And don't doubt it. And don't doubt that I can play Chopin and Debussy and write a college essay and get an A, decorate with good Feng Shui, cook a great stir fry or lasagna or enchildas and give great massages! Funny how women can do a lot of wonderful things and swear if they want! OOOOH!!!
If you still think I'm a liar, then lie in your lying liar's lair. I couldn't care........... less. I don't know you and you should be thankful that I stayed up late here in Colorado to write this. It's past midnight !
Good :rolleyes: night.
halva
06-01-2007, 12:06 AM
I was a friend of JerseyBlueyez and we called one another on the phone.
You mean you have pissed her off too? A pity. She was good.
halva
06-01-2007, 12:09 AM
If Reynolds has left here it was because he was fought tooth and nail, every inch of the way. And for no other reason.
And I mean IF.
halva
06-01-2007, 12:17 AM
An English teacher in Kiato, Greece, is organizing a public meeting on chemtrails next month, with Nikos Katsaros speaking. She has also invited the parliamentarian Asimina Xirotiri.
Kiato is a town in the north of the Peloponnese, on the Gulf of Corinth. Some years ago, in response to the Communist Party slogan: "Greece out of NATO" [I Ellada exo apo to NATO] satirists coined the slogan "Greece out of Kiato" [I Ellada exo apo to Kiato].
jayreynolds
06-01-2007, 06:41 AM
If Reynolds has left here it was because he was fought tooth and nail, every inch of the way. And for no other reason.
And I mean IF.
No, I haven't left here. My present job takes me far away from internet accessibility.
I still check in once in awhile, though.
Seen from the distance of time and space as I have been doing, it all seems such a collossal waste.
What I see are chemmies tearing each other apart due to the lack of consensus and lack of coherence in their various claims. You people are doomed because of all the lies and deceit you have involved yourselves in. It has degenerated into the culture of paranoia, lies, and mistrust it was founded upon.
What else did you expect a hoax built on lies and ignorance to turn out to be, in the end?
Truthfully, you people are so lost the most confirmed of you will likely never recover until you leave this earth.
Sad, really.
Still, seeing what has been transpiring is satisfaction guaranteed for me. I now stand on the sidelines as a more disinterested observer, watching the freak show move on without my participation(other than watch my marionette/appendages do what they have been primed by me to do). The clockwork gearmotor I spent so much time establishing now turns like a perpetual machine destroying the hoax from the inside out, as well as the outside in.
Nature abhors a vacuum, and like it or not any space unfilled will fill itself. Wasted space sometimes gets filled with waste, however, and this forum shows that process in progress.
Opposites attract, and debunkers will always become available to counter hoaxers. I see this one has joined the fray:
http://contrailscience.com
Birds of a feather flock together, and paranoid nonsensical fanatics like you chemmies attract paranoid nonsensical fanatics who act out their paranoid fanatical nonsense against each other.
This is what it looks like from the outside, folks.
Even sadder.
So go on runing the well-oiled machine you are inevitably doomed to keep tending, folks.
"Life is a Carnival"
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/band/life+is+a+carnival_20012255.html
Jeff Reynolds
06-01-2007, 11:30 AM
Nice try, evil cousin Jay, but this following link proves that u, aubuchont, halvar, foot soldier, and a bunch of others are in on some insidious astroturfing project that has spanned many years.
http://blueridgegazette.blogspot.com/2006/03/spring-blooming-trees-of-blue-ridge.html#c114247588542798695
At Friday, 24 March, 2006, Jay Reynolds said…
It looks like this guy is trying to pull your....."leg"
"Josh Peter"- get it?
He says he's in northern Virginia, Leesburg, 15 miles NW of DC.
LOL..............
what will these people think of next?
You are down south of Charlottesville, aren't you, DL? Doesn't make sense they would be in bloom already up north, does it?
To see how this all fits in, one can look at "Lou Aubuchont as Tracker."
http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=48#48
Or one can see how Lord Jay made a critical error way back in 2002, showing how he and Chem11 are also both on the same payroll.
http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=64#64
jay reynolds: It looks like it was a set-up all along:
http://www.animatedsoftware.com/cassini/cass2001/nks0003.htm
Carol Rosin was an MKultra leftover, her history goes back to Tim Leary, she now heads up the nstitute for Cooperation in Space (ICIS), which wrote HR 2977.
In a classic bait/switch designed to demoralize chemtrail believers, chemtrails were listed in a bogus space weapons bill with no chance of getting out of committee, then yanked on the first day of a new session of congress.
chem11:
"In a classic bait/switch designed to demoralize chemtrail believers..."
But why the hell would anyone be interested in demoralizing chemtrail believers if said chemical trails didn't exist?
Answer: they wouldn't.
Why would Jay Reynolds offer such a theory if he didn't think there was something to it?
You're toast cousin, just like the fake believers you have been in cahoots with. :p
A friend is someone you call on the phone and chat with and could invite to visit in your home. I was an acquaintance of Reynold's, not a friend. I was a friend of JerseyBlueyez and we called one another on the phone and sent Christmas cards. So, no, I wouldn't call Jay Reynolds a friend of mine, but I wouldn't mind my husband and I meeting him in person and visiting his beautiful farm.
So, this is about it. You've called me names and I know about your physical condition and will not accept your physical condition as an excuse for your less than stellar behavior. You are free, you know, to post anything you want about purposeful spraying and pics galore. So how am I impeding your freedom of research and expression? I never attacked you although you interpreted it as such. I'm sorry you're so defensive and that you listened to halva's lies about me. He always wanted me to "hate" Reynolds and I refused to go there. I don't behave as though I'm throwing snowballs at others. But if I'm personally attacked, by God I'll give you hell !
I was never a debunker, never knew or even heard of Reynolds back in 2001 and didn't know about online boards. My oldest son was just graduating from college and my youngest had just graduated from highschool in 2000 and at his first year in college. After Sept. 11th, I started looking for my high school classmates at classmates.com and then joined a board. It was also the spring of 2002 when we were introduced to Coast to Coast radio by our piano tuner. He knows Dannion Brinkley, too. Yes, I know...it's all so quaint isn't it? It was around then that Mark Hazelwood started his Planet X crap and I was motivated to go to Art Bell's website and the yahoo board discussing Planet X. From there I hopped over to New World Disorder. I made friends on that board, two of whom moved to our town and then married and moved to Texas where her parents live. I e-mail two others. Yes, I had way too much time on my hands and I still do.
So, I wasn't even aware of chemtrails back when Reynold's was trolling and I first heard about them on the Yahoo board in 2002 and was motivated to seek out others who were open about a year or two later. That's when I joined CTC. But I spent more time researching and discussing 911 than anything else. Curtail anyone's freedom of thought and research on any subject and especially if its a theme of a board, and my sense of justice blooms!
I have to blame Halva for some of this because he couldn't stand that I could even tolerate Reynolds. Hey! If Reynolds played Mr. Nice Guy while I was around, that's what I saw. He wasn't all that nice, but compared to you, kola, and Halva, he was a gentleman. He eventually stopped harassing Footsoldier and halva always asked for it. Reynolds seems to have mellowed. I doubt he has the time to devote to chasing people around the net, even at youtube. His mother died and that Morgellans woman almost sued him and I think he's taken some self reflections to heart. Give people a chance to grow and change......we are all works in progress.
And I would say FUCK YOU again if you attacked me out of the blue the way you did. And don't doubt it. And don't doubt that I can play Chopin and Debussy and write a college essay and get an A, decorate with good Feng Shui, cook a great stir fry or lasagna or enchildas and give great massages! Funny how women can do a lot of wonderful things and swear if they want! OOOOH!!!
If you still think I'm a liar, then lie in your lying liar's lair. I couldn't care........... less. I don't know you and you should be thankful that I stayed up late here in Colorado to write this. It's past midnight !
Good :rolleyes: night.
Boomer Chick_ Forgive me but I am not up to answering the double post you made, so I'll make this as to the point as I can and you should really pay attention to what I'm saying here (not attacking) if everything that you wrote in your post is accurate.
Someone called S.T.Brendt (Tiffany) my business partner, friend and the person I live with and share my life with here in Maine, the person who called represented themselves as being you, (Get it?) you should be very concerned about this, I know I would be if there was someone out there passing themselves off as me or Tiff.
The person claiming to be you, knew that you where a teacher, lived in Colorado, claimed to have friends in Maine and did use your screen name 'Boomer Chick" and another 'Chickiedeb', etc, etc,.... and basically used your identity to obtain information from S.T. Brendt ('Tiffany') in 2003.
Do you understand why I am mistrusting you after reading 'Reynolds post with regard to "Chickiedeb"? ( This has nothing to do with Halva / Wayne.)
Now, do you claim that you did not use either of those screen names prior to 2003, ( Think ) because whoever called in 2003 knew you by 'Boomer Chick', they where very specific in mentioning that name along with the "Chickiedeb" name.
If then, it was not you who called, then it was someone who knows you well enough to pass themselves off as you, this is your problem, not mine or 'Tiff's'.
It had been quite some time since we even discussed it but when 'Reynolds' made the "Chickiedeb" comment in his post it brought up the whole subject again and really threw your credibility into a bad light as far as we where concerned.
It was like, ALRIGHT, now we know you are working with 'Reynolds' because it was you, "Chichiedeb" / 'Boomer Chick' that had called in 2003 so the obvious deduction was that you where the "Chickiedeb" that he referred to as helping him and from that point on we thought of you as no more than another debunker working as a shill in the forums, gathering information and setting other posters up as it where for 'Reynolds' attack dog style debunking. ( Make sense to you now? )
You where not posting in the Science Section of DBS at the time but when I saw that you had returned I decided to confront you on the subject, if indeed you genuinely had no idea, knowledge or participation in that phone call back in 2003, you are not the person who called and you are not working with or for 'Reynolds" in his debunking efforts_then I sincerely apologize for my unwarranted accusations against you but you must know that there will awlays be a question mark in my mind regarding that call, you can thank whoever used your identity for that
You should read this: http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?p=808493#post808493
Quote: Reynolds
"Still, seeing what has been transpiring is satisfaction guaranteed for me. I now stand on the sidelines as a more disinterested observer, watching the freak show move on without my participation(other than watch my marionette/appendages do what they have been primed by me to do). The clockwork gearmotor I spent so much time establishing now turns like a perpetual machine destroying the hoax from the inside out, as well as the outside in."
""Nature abhors a vacuum, and like it or not any space unfilled will fill itself. Wasted space sometimes gets filled with waste, however, and this forum shows that process in progress.""
I believe that 'Reynolds' has actually made a valid point and also revealed that he has gone to great lengths to create a atmosphere of chaos in the forums that he has haunted_great lengths. (Food for thought 'Boomer Chick')
I see no point in discussing this with you further, all of the cards are on the table so to speak and I have no reason to pursue or attack you in any way, you are free to address the information as you like, as I said already, whoever has or is representing themselves as you, is not my problem but it is definitely your's.
I'm willing to let the whole matter drop but I hope you can understand that I will view your future post with a certain amount of pessimistic caution.
Thank you for taking the time to respond, I appreciate that.
Good Day and hope of better day's to come.
Lou.
CDsNuTz
06-01-2007, 09:35 PM
A friend is someone you call on the phone and chat with and could invite to visit in your home. I was an acquaintance of Reynold's, not a friend. I was a friend of JerseyBlueyez and we called one another on the phone and sent Christmas cards. So, no, I wouldn't call Jay Reynolds a friend of mine, but I wouldn't mind my husband and I meeting him in person and visiting his beautiful farm.
So, this is about it. You've called me names and I know about your physical condition and will not accept your physical condition as an excuse for your less than stellar behavior. You are free, you know, to post anything you want about purposeful spraying and pics galore. So how am I impeding your freedom of research and expression? I never attacked you although you interpreted it as such. I'm sorry you're so defensive and that you listened to halva's lies about me. He always wanted me to "hate" Reynolds and I refused to go there. I don't behave as though I'm throwing snowballs at others. But if I'm personally attacked, by God I'll give you hell !
I was never a debunker, never knew or even heard of Reynolds back in 2001 and didn't know about online boards. My oldest son was just graduating from college and my youngest had just graduated from highschool in 2000 and at his first year in college. After Sept. 11th, I started looking for my high school classmates at classmates.com and then joined a board. It was also the spring of 2002 when we were introduced to Coast to Coast radio by our piano tuner. He knows Dannion Brinkley, too. Yes, I know...it's all so quaint isn't it? It was around then that Mark Hazelwood started his Planet X crap and I was motivated to go to Art Bell's website and the yahoo board discussing Planet X. From there I hopped over to New World Disorder. I made friends on that board, two of whom moved to our town and then married and moved to Texas where her parents live. I e-mail two others. Yes, I had way too much time on my hands and I still do.
So, I wasn't even aware of chemtrails back when Reynold's was trolling and I first heard about them on the Yahoo board in 2002 and was motivated to seek out others who were open about a year or two later. That's when I joined CTC. But I spent more time researching and discussing 911 than anything else. Curtail anyone's freedom of thought and research on any subject and especially if its a theme of a board, and my sense of justice blooms!
I have to blame Halva for some of this because he couldn't stand that I could even tolerate Reynolds. Hey! If Reynolds played Mr. Nice Guy while I was around, that's what I saw. He wasn't all that nice, but compared to you, kola, and Halva, he was a gentleman. He eventually stopped harassing Footsoldier and halva always asked for it. Reynolds seems to have mellowed. I doubt he has the time to devote to chasing people around the net, even at youtube. His mother died and that Morgellans woman almost sued him and I think he's taken some self reflections to heart. Give people a chance to grow and change......we are all works in progress.
And I would say FUCK YOU again if you attacked me out of the blue the way you did. And don't doubt it. And don't doubt that I can play Chopin and Debussy and write a college essay and get an A, decorate with good Feng Shui, cook a great stir fry or lasagna or enchildas and give great massages! Funny how women can do a lot of wonderful things and swear if they want! OOOOH!!!
If you still think I'm a liar, then lie in your lying liar's lair. I couldn't care........... less. I don't know you and you should be thankful that I stayed up late here in Colorado to write this. It's past midnight !
Good :rolleyes: night.
Not one mention of the "phone call" to S.T.Brendt (Tiffany)??
Thanks for the enlightenment Lou...:eek:
Not one mention of the "phone call" to S.T.Brendt (Tiffany)??
Thanks for the enlightenment Lou...:eek:
Yeah, pretty strange I'd say, It is what it is, I'll let the readers decide for themselves.
What's really odd about the whole "Chickiedeb" thing, is that after that call to S.T. Brendt (Tiffany) supposedly by 'Boomer', I never heard or saw the "Chickiedeb" name anywhere until old 'Lord Reynolds' made a post and dropped it, Hmmmm, you really have to wonder, don't you? :confused:
Boomer Chick
06-01-2007, 10:22 PM
FOR LOU:
NOW CONCENTRATE AND TRY TO THINK WHILE YOU READ:
First of all, you have given no proof whatsoever that anyone did in fact call you. How am I supposed to know that what you say is true? You are a stranger to me, totally. You could be making everything up as far as I or anyone knows. But Lou, I will just give you that someone called whoever Brendt a "few years ago." You never mentioned whether this someone was a male or a female, did you? And you didn't have the common courtesy to tell about the nature of the call. How am I supposed to have any kind of empathy when you fail to communicate anything about it? And because of CDNutz I guess I have to say: NO, I DID NOT MAKE A CALL TO SOMEONE AND I RESENT YOUR ACCUSING ME OF MAKING A CALL THAT YOU VAGUELY REFER TO AS SOMEHOW RUDE.
I will repeat that I have only used one name with "chick" in it and I composed that name for the first time when I joined the CTC board, Sept. 2003 -- Boomer Chick. In what month did you receive your so-named "call?" Might you have misheard something in that call? Might the 'chick' word have stuck in your heads and you assumed that Boomer"chick" was somehow the same person when you read the name, Boomerchick? You know, this is about as far-fetched a story as I have patience to accept. If someone used my board name, then I guess they did and that is that. But it makes no sense.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001445-9.html
Before that time and during, I was Laurel XXXXXX over on the yahoo board.
I don't know people in Maine. I don't recall anyone on either CTC or yahoo who was named "chickiedeb"
As I told you before, which you failed to remember when responding, I didn't even meet Jay Reynolds until I joined the DBS board at halva's request. Do you see my joining date? Jay Reynolds didn't know I existed until I joined DBS, formerly Arianna Online. Maybe someone saw my board name over at CTC? I wouldn't have had any idea in that case if anyone was using my board name for any reason. As far as reality is concerned I didn't even meet Jay Reynolds until Jan. of 2005. I wrote all of this before and I and others other than halva would not consider my relationship with Jay Reynolds as "close " since then. Because I didn't "war" with him may not please those in the war mentality game...that's just too bad.
I accept your apology.
Might you also be aware that your links didn't support what you were saying at all. None of them had anything to do with me.
Now if you're through with attempting to squeeze information out of me to appease your feelings of insecurity and possibly feel superior in this low life version of data mining, then we shall now begin the process of mature adult posting, if you don't mind.
I hope your friend's trauma has healed and I hope you are able to maintain clear thinking and logic. So far, I'm not
impressed.
BC :cool:
LOU:
.....my bullshit detector is pretty accurate, however if I am wrong in accusing you of being this "Chickiedeb" then I suggest you take the matter up with your good debunker friend 'Jay Reynolds', obviously he knows just who "Chickiedeb" is and therefor who may have been impersonating you when calling S.T. Brendt.
Having trouble with your BS detector? Call Braino Rooter! :D
Boomer Chick
06-01-2007, 10:31 PM
Yeah, pretty strange I'd say, It is what it is, I'll let the readers decide for themselves.
What's really odd about the whole "Chickiedeb" thing, is that after that call to S.T. Brendt (Tiffany) supposedly by 'Boomer', I never heard or saw the "Chickiedeb" name anywhere until old 'Lord Reynolds' made a post and dropped it, Hmmmm, you really have to wonder, don't you? :confused:
You have never proven to anyone on this board that in fact someone called you and said her name was both Boomerchick and chickiedeb. Oh yeah, that's so normal and what people do. They say....I'm so and so and also so and so. If Jay Reynolds had done that, where did he get my name? He didn't know me until 2005!!! Unless he trolled CTC in Sept, Oct, Nov, or Dec of 2003 and decided to use my name and make some call to someone saying he was me....I ask anyone.........WHY would he do that anyway? I was talking about 911 over on CTC. There would be no reason for him to want to use me in any way. It makes absolutely no sense.
Sorry, Lou. You're the one who's attempting to pull something below board, here.
I find you slimey at this point. Do you have anything to say?
Jeff Reynolds
06-01-2007, 11:38 PM
You know boomerchick. I'll make a deal with you. I'll consider you're for real, if you consider that Lou Aubuchont was Tracker at CTC, that Lou was J Vitum here at DBS. He was also Mom_p3 here at DBS. Now if you read the thread on tracker u will see that that was Lou. Now if u r curious why all this shit is being thrown at u, feel free to ask. I was at swampgas' place last year. He bailed me out of CTC. I read through a lot of archives. I know all the "players." I am just saying that there is a script to this. I will give u the benefit of the doubt and assume maybe u haven't read the archives. Maybe u haven't been following all the shit going on. But some of us have. So if u have any questions, just ask. I will try to answer. So I will consider u r for real, if u consider that myself and May41970 {the date of the Kent State Massacre} have stumbled across some script between "believers" and "debunkers."
Look up J Vitum and mom_p3. Look up Tracker at ctc. Look who ends up sleeping with Lou and Tiff in Maine. Good old Tracker. Now if u would rather shy away from getting to the bottom of the chemtrail fakes, so be it. But all I ask is that u see the possibility that there is that script. Now why would Jay Reynolds make some paranoid rant at some obscure blog in some dispute about dogwoods blooming? Why would Jay Reynolds say that HR2977 ?is that the #? the kucinich thingie. Why did Jay say on megasprayer what he did?
Swampgas has been the gatekeeper for the "rational chemmies." He invited myself and may out of ctc. Just saying there is more to our message than on the surface. The phoneys from the script want all of us to be lumped into the same chemmie stew. word.
If it wasn't for the cointelpro crap at the major chemtrail forums, there would have been a hell of a lot more going on about this than a few Paul Moyer reports.
Chemtrails are real; Chemtrail forums are not.
Listen, "they" are trying to reestablish themselves as the ones to call out fakes. It is this simple.
It looks like Will Thomas got bamboozled by some frauds up in "Maine." Thomas seems like a good man. "Lou Aubuchont", "Halvar", "Swampgas", "Chem11", "Jay Reynolds", "Ed Snell", these are all characters. If u r for real, I had simply mistakenly lumped u in with other debunkers in chemmie clothes such as big bunny, foot soldier/deborah, chem11, chickieDeb/ noddebunker, and Yaak/ ed snell/ cydoniaquest/ the ones who hate socialism.
If u r for real, i am sorry for doing that. I take it that u believe in chemtrails, but don't think they can be proven. If that is the case, I can accept it. I however believe that they can be proven, and they would have been stopped many years ago if it wasn't for the cointelp[ro operations going on at ctc, megasprayer, carnicom's, gastronamus, and DBS. I am not saying DBS for example was the problem. The problem were the scripted infiltrators. Jim Phelps, come on, that had to be a psy-op. Jay Reynolds is one too. It's all astroturfing. Maybe 5-10% of the posters are real.
Look up J Vitum tracker and mom_p3. Look at Halvar always going toe to toe with Jay. Look at snell and swampgas. Look at all the side forums. There is no chemtrail forum anywhere,that I know of, where chemtrails have not been perverted. It sucks for u, i know, i can relate, because u spent a lot of time making posts at ctc. If u r for real, u were a pawn in the script, just like myself and may41970.
Just look into it a bit. reflect. fake "debunkers" and "believers" is the occam's razor or whatever the heck it's spelled.
Jeff Reynolds
06-01-2007, 11:56 PM
ay reynolds: It looks like it was a set-up all along:
http://www.animatedsoftware.com/cass...01/nks0003.htm
Carol Rosin was an MKultra leftover, her history goes back to Tim Leary, she now heads up the nstitute for Cooperation in Space (ICIS), which wrote HR 2977.
In a classic bait/switch designed to demoralize chemtrail believers, chemtrails were listed in a bogus space weapons bill with no chance of getting out of committee, then yanked on the first day of a new session of congress.
Why did Foot Soldier/Deborah scrub her contrail thread here at DBS two years after the post? It was all about the debate with Jay and the chemmies. She had to scrub it because it showed that she has always been a debunker in chemmie clothes. It's a script. I fell for it too. They are stupid shits overall, but the script has now been exposed. The major chemtrail forums have never been and will never help get the shit stopped.
Check out how Foot Soldier/Deborah keeps posting chemtrails from a website that calls them contrails. That is some insidious shit going on. Big Bunny, her buddy from Megasprayer, says that chemtrails come from our friendly local airports. All this flak u r getting now from lou and CDisarightwingNUT is an extention of the swampgas/ ed snell/ cyquest crap. They are doing to you now what was dont to me. They want the new people to all lump us in together, to blur the truth. But they have been exposed. This is not paranoia. Now u might have a glimpse of what has been going on. Yeah we want fucking chemtrails to stop. we fucking want to trust friggin chem11 and swampgas and all these other characters running these chemtrail forums. It sucks to find out that the last people to be trusted cannot be.
Chemtrails will be stopped despite all this bullshit from the phoney "debunkers" and "believers."
halva
06-02-2007, 01:53 AM
Nice try, evil cousin Jay, but this following link proves that u, aubuchont, halvar, foot soldier, and a bunch of others are in on some insidious astroturfing project that has spanned many years.
http://blueridgegazette.blogspot.com/2006/03/spring-blooming-trees-of-blue-ridge.html#c114247588542798695
To see how this all fits in, one can look at "Lou Aubuchont as Tracker."
http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=48#48
Or one can see how Lord Jay made a critical error way back in 2002, showing how he and Chem11 are also both on the same payroll.
http://allaircraftarenotinvolved.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=64#64
You see, it is really Jay Reynolds that Jeff wants to dialogue with, and whose approval he is seeking.
Also, note the "deals" he is now proposing to BC, publicly, with that charming naivete of the American televiewer. .
BC, all I can say to you is this: do you see the trouble you get yourself into when you act as if you can be "above" the situation we are in with the debunkers, which I have described, accurately, as "war".
jayreynolds
06-02-2007, 05:15 AM
You have never proven to anyone on this board that in fact someone called you and said her name was both Boomerchick and chickiedeb. Oh yeah, that's so normal and what people do. They say....I'm so and so and also so and so. If Jay Reynolds had done that, where did he get my name? He didn't know me until 2005!!! Unless he trolled CTC in Sept, Oct, Nov, or Dec of 2003 and decided to use my name and make some call to someone saying he was me....I ask anyone.........WHY would he do that anyway? I was talking about 911 over on CTC. There would be no reason for him to want to use me in any way. It makes absolutely no sense.
Sorry, Lou. You're the one who's attempting to pull something below board, here.
I find you slimey at this point. Do you have anything to say?
Well, BC, now you can better understand how chemmies just make stuff up out of thin air.
And when Lou posed as 'Tracker', MOM_P3, and J-Vitum and his other aliases, he denied the fact to all his buddies at CTC, Gastronamus, and elsewhere. Looking at the way he has already been shown to lie directly to his friends, just imagine what he is willing to fabricate about those he doesn't care for...........
It's all been a hoax like this, from the inception.
A Mountain of Lies.
jayreynolds
06-02-2007, 05:22 AM
This is not paranoia.
Chemtrails will be stopped despite all this bullshit from the phoney "debunkers" and "believers."
Not paranoia? Brother, your entire life seems infused by one of the worst cases of paranoid delusions I've seen. You see rascals behind every Bush, snakes under your bed, and everyone is out to get you. You haven't lifted a finger to ever show one iota of proof for the claim that "chemtrails" are anything other han ordinary contrails.
The way you are headed, 'Socrates', you are indeed stopping "chemtrails"(the hoax).
You are one of my finest appendages, working ceaselessly to insidiously disrupt and divide, greasing the engine of your own destruction.
You're check is in the mail...........
jayreynolds
06-02-2007, 05:51 AM
The person claiming to be you, knew that you where a teacher, lived in Colorado, claimed to have friends in Maine and did use your screen name 'Boomer Chick" and another 'Chickiedeb', etc, etc,.... and basically used your identity to obtain information from S.T. Brendt ('Tiffany') in 2003.
http://debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=808666&postcount=8299
Are you sticking with this story as being 100% accurate, Lou?
You have previously claimed to use caller ID, from which you should be able to tell us which area code this call came from.
Which one was it?
Oh, and BTW, Lou even goes so far as to post at CTC using his girlfriend's name, and using her name to deny he was posting as "Tracker":
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/msg96800.html#96800
How low are you willing to go to perpetrate this lie, Lou?
It would have been better to just admit you were a serial multiple ID poster a long time ago, but now you are stuck in a real catch 22 as your lies are catching up to you.
So, what did the caller ID say when you claim "Boomerchick" called, and what was the exact date?
You're reporter girlfriend was bound to have kept a record. Just set the record straight for once, eh?
halva
06-02-2007, 08:18 AM
You know boomerchick. I'll make a deal with you.\
Are you going to cut your "evil cousin" in on your deal Jeff?
halva
06-02-2007, 08:41 AM
Well, BC, now you can better understand how chemmies just make stuff up out of thin air.
And when Lou posed as 'Tracker', MOM_P3, and J-Vitum and his other aliases, he denied the fact to all his buddies at CTC, Gastronamus, and elsewhere. Looking at the way he has already been shown to lie directly to his friends, just imagine what he is willing to fabricate about those he doesn't care for...........
It's all been a hoax like this, from the inception.
A Mountain of Lies.
Are you going to respond to Jay Reynolds now with a friendly greeting, BC, and accept his help against Lou?
jayreynolds
Senior Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou
The person claiming to be you, knew that you where a teacher, lived in Colorado, claimed to have friends in Maine and did use your screen name 'Boomer Chick" and another 'Chickiedeb', etc, etc,.... and basically used your identity to obtain information from S.T. Brendt ('Tiffany') in 2003.
http://debatebothsides.com/showpost....postcount=8299
Are you sticking with this story as being 100% accurate, Lou?
You have previously claimed to use caller ID, from which you should be able to tell us which area code this call came from.
Which one was it?
Oh, and BTW, Lou even goes so far as to post at CTC using his girlfriend's name, and using her name to deny he was posting as "Tracker":
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/foru...800.html#96800
How low are you willing to go to perpetrate this lie, Lou?
It would have been better to just admit you were a serial multiple ID poster a long time ago, but now you are stuck in a real catch 22 as your lies are catching up to you.
So, what did the caller ID say when you claim "Boomerchick" called, and what was the exact date?
You're reporter girlfriend was bound to have kept a record. Just set the record straight for once, eh?
_______________________________
Well Onion Farmer, I was just setting here enjoying a cup of coffee and reading yours and Jeffy Boy's Bullshit, ( BTW, I hate to say it but I do agree with you with regard to the "Pyramid Casting" theory and Jeffy Boy doing your bidding here.) but not much else.
Why do you have such a BIG INTEREST in that phone call that S.T. Brendt received from someone claiming to be her ( Boomer Chick ) and this "Chickiedeb" that no one seems to have ever heard of_ except you.
Are you afraid that this whole "Chickiedeb" thing with 'Boomer Chick' might just come back to bite you in your debunker ass?
Since you obviously know this "Chickiedeb" can you point out where she has made any post, anything at all that she has authored besides the alleged work that she did while employed by you to assist you in your debunking scheme of S.T. Brendt's Chemtrail reporting of March, 2001.
So, Onion Farmer, did you put some gullible woman up to calling S.T. Brendt and have her pose as 'Boomer Chick' or in fact was it 'Boomer Chick' that called for you, so many questions, there are so few answers when it comes to the despicable tactics that you employ in your debunking crusades, your a very dark and devious little guy aren't you?
Come on Onion Head, I have never posted as you claim and pretended to be 'S.T. Brendt', Tiffany can speak for herself anytime that she chooses to, since she blew you off as some 'nut case' when you started calling her just after her and Will Thomas Chemtrail report of March 12, 2001 broke, you have spent countless hours trying to debunk the truth of what was reported like some rabid dog attacking every little detail that you can think of with regard to the events that transpired on that March day , you are a vile little man who spends great amounts of your life attacking people, everyone who has ever read any amount of your writings knows this, it's your trademark as well as your hallmark.
Why is it that you, an insignificant Onion Farmer in Arkansas has taken it upon yourself to attack anyone who tries to report truthfully and honestly what they are seeing going on in our sky's, just who in the Hell do you think you are anyway, people can see what's going on with this spraying, they really do not need you to clarify it by your definition for them, with you, everything that people report on is a 'HOAX', well, if people are reporting strange and bizarre trails in the sky, made by untracked military type aircraft, how can it be there fault , how can there reporting of it be considered a so called 'HOAX' by some little piss ant like you, your really full of shit but you already know that, 'NEWS FLASH', so does everyone else.
S.T. Brendt did have caller ID at the time but she did not save the information because she was getting so many calls around that time that where work related, her number was private as you well know, since you had to obtain it by calling one of the radio stations that she worked for at that time and lied about being an old friend of hers and how you knew that she had recently moved but you did not have her new number as yet, you are a piece of work Onion Farmer, no doubt about it.
Given your past history of obtaining other peoples private telephone numbers by devious means, this whole "Chickiedeb" / 'Boomer Chick" thing fits right in nicely with your MODUS OPERANDI, it's just speculation on my part but my best guess would be that it is you that was behind the whole thing, whether or not 'Boomer Chick' was or was not actually involved remains a mystery to me but that is a matter she should take up with you then,.... isn't it?
Oh yes, I forgot to mention that it was only after you managed to obtain 'S.T. Brendt's' private number by misrepresenting yourself to one of her employers that the she received the call from someone claiming to be 'Boomer Chick / "Chickiedeb", just a coincidence,... I doubt that very much.
Keep stirring the pot with regard to this "Chickiedeb" that you obviously know so well Onion Farmer, this is getting more interesting with each of your post. :rolleyes:
Alright, I have wasted enough time on you, time to go and do something worthwhile.
Why is it that you, an insignificant Onion Farmer in Arkansas has taken it upon yourself to attack anyone who tries to report truthfully and honestly what they are seeing going on in our sky's, just who in the Hell do you think you are anyway, people can see what's going on with this spraying, they really do not need you to clarify it by your definition for them, with you, everything that people report on is a 'HOAX', well, if people are reporting strange and bizarre trails in the sky, made by untracked military type aircraft, how can it be there fault , how can there reporting of it be considered a so called 'HOAX' by some little piss ant like you, your really full of shit but you already know that, 'NEWS FLASH', so does everyone else.
___________________________________
ONOIN FARMER_why do you ATTACK and DEBUNK those who only report the truth of whats going on in our sky's?
___________________________________
FAA OFFICIAL CONFIRMS AIR FORCE IS CONDUCTING WEATHER MODIFICATION OVER U.S. AND CANADA
April 4, 2001 lifeboat news service ©2001 William Thomas and S.T. Brendt
http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/Willthomas/bulletin/bulletin.htm
PORTLAND, Maine...A senior air traffic control manager responsible for commercial aircraft over the northeastern United States has confirmed in a second exclusive interview with radio reporter S.T. Brendt that large formations of U.S. Air Force tanker aircraft are conducting ongoing operations over the USA and Canada.
The sky-obscuring chemicals laid down in criss-cross patterns by the big jets have been observed by thousands of eyewitnesses across North America over the past two years. When asked the purpose of these missions, the FAA official said he was told "weather modification" after a "higher civil authority" ordered him to divert incoming trans-Atlantic airliners around military formations flying over 37,000 feet on March 12, 20 and 21, 2001.
On Monday, March 12, reporter Brendt and her partner Lou Aubuchont counted 30 aircraft laying down a lingering gridwork of plumes between 12:05 and 12:55 pm. Aubuchont, who witnessed many military maneuvers during his stint as a courier in U.S. Navy Intelligence, said he had never seen anything like it.
"It looked like an invasion," he told this reporter. Aubuchont emphasized that unlike aerial battle exercises, the tankers were unescorted by combat helicopters or fighter jets. "It was just tankers."
After being contacted at a major metropolitan airport by Brendt, the ATC manager drove to her home on Monday, March 26 to see for himself how many commercial jets would be visible from her location. The FAA official counted just three jets "off in the distance" between 12:05 and 12:55 pm.
Of the nine jets on his radar scope during that same time period on March 12, the official told Brendt she should have been able to see only one from her location. Instead, she and Aubuchont counted 30. And the flights continued all day.
Speaking on condition of strict anonymity in a secure location, the chain-smoking government source noted that the chemicals sprayed by the air force tankers on March 12 showed up as a "haze" on Air Traffic Control radar scopes. The weather at the time of the incident was unlimited ceiling and visibility, in a cloudless blue sky.
Such cloudy radar returns are consistent with clouds of talcum-fine aluminum oxide particles released by high-flying tankers in a process USAF Weather Force Specialists term, "aerial obscuration."
The Air Traffic Control manager admitted that the chemicals sprayed by the tankers degraded ATC radar returns. When asked if this posed a threat to flight safety, he replied, "not from my perspective."
But the ATC manager added that similar military operations have been carried out "on other dates" and "other regions" in the USA. When asked whether the air force jets crossed into Canadian air space, he replied "yes."
In November, 1999, a petition signed by 550 residents of Espanola, Ontario was presented to the Canadian government after alleged overflights by U.S. Air Force tankers sprayed sky-obscuring chemicals that townspeople claimed were making children and adults sick over a 50 square-mile area. Lab tests of rainwater falling through the chemical clouds over Espanola subsequently measured aluminum levels seven-times higher than permissible federal health safety limits.
A patent issued to Hughes Aircraft Company in 1991 calls for spreading a "sunscreen" of aluminum oxide particles to reduce global warming by reflecting 1% of incoming sunlight. Computer simulations carried out by geophysicist Ken Caldeira at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory showed that an anticipated doubling of atmospheric CO2 over the next 50 years would result in no net warming across the globe if the project touted by hydrogen bomb inventor Edward Teller was carried out.
But Caldeira warned a recent gathering of geophysicists that the sky shield could drastically cool the upper stratosphere and "destroy the ozone layer."
The inert aluminum oxide spread by the big jets is not considered to pose a human health risk. But according to U.S. chemical warfare experts, all talcum-fine particulates are extremely respirable - and quick to lodge in human lungs.
Each KC-135 Stratotanker carries 150,000 pounds of transferable fuel or chemicals. The KC-10 Extender carries approximately 320,000 pounds of fuel/chemicals.
The FAA official decided to come forward after his wife was stricken with what doctors diagnosed as Sudden Adult Onset Asthma following the March 12 aerial onslaught. She has no history of allergy. Their children also suffered asthmatic reactions, including an infant son who was rushed to hospital with a gushing nose bleed.
Uncontrollable nose bleeds are commonly reported in wake of the tanker spraying. Two years ago, Brendt was admitted to a local Emergency Room with a gushing nosebleed after accidentally photographing the chemical trails.
The particles sprayed into the upper atmosphere by the big jets also act as nuclei, forming clouds and precipitation.
Immediately after the March weather modification missions, the northeastern seaboard was struck by unseasonable snowstorms that confounded 70 year-old residents, and piled eight-foot snowdrifts against Brendt's home. At least one fatality resulted from collapsing roofs.
Our investigation continues.
# # #
About S.T. Brendt
Tiffany Brendt has been a broadcast journalist and on-air personality for the past eight years with Maine and New Hampshire radio stations WMWV, WCYY AND WLKZ.
Working primarily in the political arena, Ms. Brendt has interviewed candidates for the House of Representatives - most recently Martha Fuller Clark - as well as Presidential candidates Al Gore and Bill Bradley. Her interviews air on the award winning "Drive Time News Hour on WMWV.
About William Thomas
William Thomas has been investigating "chemtrails" since breaking this story for the Environment News Service in January, 1998. He is the author of Bringing The War Home, Scorched Earth, and Probing The Chemtrails Conundrum. His documentary videos include the award-winning "Eco War", and "Chemtrails: Mystery Lines In The Sky"
Specializing in health and environment, Thomas's award-winning writing has appeared in more than 50 publications in eight countries. His editorial commentaries have appeared in The Globe and Mail, The Toronto Star, The Vancouver Sun and Times-Colonist newspapers - as well as Earth Island Journal and Ecodecision magazines. William Thomas has also appeared on CBC radio and television, CNN and New Zealand national television.
Boomer Chick
06-02-2007, 10:10 AM
Oh my !!!
Let's see here....shall we untangle these monstrous webs YOU weave?
Jeff sees counter agents at every turn, purposeful distractors within the chemtrail movement as embedded "fakers." But everyone?
Halva sees the dynamics of social interaction with various board names and arguments as all out social "war." And he uses Lou's hate for Reynolds as a support for his own lust for drama in his own otherwise boring and sunny Greek life.
Lou joins a new board and attacks the unknown, assuming the war drama, attacking for his own lust for control and information, stewing in some kind of internet drama soup.
Jay Reynolds has been accused of something impossible and illogical as though he would pull names randomly from an internet site and use it for WHO KNOW WHAT reason. I never did find out what the call was about. And of course Reynolds, like myself, in his logic realizes, as I do, that no proof was given about the call. No caller ID number, no area code, and you know what? Even if Lou looked up Colorado and took a stab at one of the area codes and scoured my posts to find out exactly in what county I live, we still couldn't believe him. He would have to fax or scan a copy of his phone bill to prove it. Period. Complete with dates and times. And Jay pretended he was me, the call certainly did not originate from Colorado. A simple check on the area code would have told "Tiff" that fact. Data does not jive, here. I smell something rotten in the state of Louville.
Beyond the phone call weirdness, Lou accused me of trolling. I don't even know what trolling is. I don't visit other boards to see what's going on, never involved myself in the debate between lingering contrails and purposeful spraying other than right here and I refused to take sides preferring to remain open to all evidence supporting either or both views. However, if something was flat out wrong and incorrect, I would jump in and oppose the statement or theory. It's really not an either or argument as those who think in BLACK AND WHITE manipulate the issue into overly simplistic terms.
My stance of pure open mindedness doesn't baffle Footsoldier nor does it baffle Jay Reynolds. I find both of them intelligent. My non-commitment from the viewpoint and paradigm lusters for war and drama cannot obviously be trusted for some reason. I must, in their eyes, be on SOME SIDE of their narrow TWO SIDED INTERNET DRAMA/REALITY. GET IT?
The focus for anyone should be upon one thing and one thing only: THE TRUTH. And the TRUTH my friends, could be many sided and far more intricate than it appears. That is no reason to attempt to narrow your focus and simplify issues to the point of "good and bad" , "fence sitters or debunkers".................. let all others find the truth at their own pace.
When you see something as truth, be prepared to defend it with logic and evidence. That's all we can do.
We see Paul, a mere youngster, attempting to understand weather predictions and patterns and huffing and puffing about his "power." Let him be. Remember the Beatles song, "Let It Be" ???
We see lonely people. We see people with time enough to read and write and think. And that's a blessing for those who have the time.
We see paranoia in the form of projecting evil intents onto others whom one doesn't know. It's a normal kind of human reaction to new members of a group, but in the case of this overly dramatized fantasy internet world, you've projected yourself right out of reality. Get back down to earth. Give yourself time to be known and time to know others.
We see overreacting and drama created by the so-called debunkers and defenders of "spraying theory" and it is true that many of those opposing purposeful spraying or purposeful fuel tampering theories can be quite zealous....no question...and no question that boundaries have been crossed in many cases. But I personally was not aware of that level of zealotry. I heard about it, but I did not witness it here. At CTC someone attempted to prevent a student from researching the subject of "chemtrails" and you know how I feel about that. When the purpose of a board is to collect information on a particular topic and a poster asks for that information and another poster claims that the subject or topic is "bogus" and they criticize their teacher for such an open assignment.........well...that goes against my values of freedom itself.
I liken the debate to the 911 truthers and our opponents. When I argue I argue the issue, not the poster. I argue to support the alternative theories and offer links. If you feel strongly about your theory........support it. Stop attacking the messenger and get back into the truth mode and maintain as much objectivity as you can. Don't go on hunches and stay away from judging others' intents and motives. If you think someone posts with a false identity which we have experienced quite often from one poster up in Current Events, then ignore him/her. I ignore the fake personalities and only respond to the one that I have found is the most real. Some people on the internet have BIG psychological problems. Don't put yourself in that category.
If you post one liners and they're rude half the time or crude....hey.....you don't receive respect.
Jay Reynolds contributed more to supporting his side of any argument than halva did. I did not always agree with Reynolds, but he was articulate and attempting to stick to the topic. Yes, he and Yaak teased halva and IS at times, but dog-gone-it they deserved it and begged for it. At one time I made the comment that there might be some sexual perversions going on. I couldn't believe adult men were behaving this way. Maybe they got off on it for all I know. Lord Renolds? Come on !!! Now that's getting into the Star Wars kinds of fantasies, but halva and Insurrection Chemistry are older guys not raised in the "dark power/light power" dualistic paradigms of the Star Wars mentality. Star Trek actually offered more far seeing reality parameters.
Anyway, I digress.
Where's Lou?
I hear you, Jay. If you made the call, it certainly couldn't have come from Colorado. The whole thing feels slimy and icky to me. I'm off to take a shower!
Have a good day ALL and please learn something from this.
Appreciate it.
BC :rolleyes:
Jeff Reynolds
06-02-2007, 12:41 PM
Not paranoia? Brother, your entire life seems infused by one of the worst cases of paranoid delusions I've seen.....
The way you are headed, 'Socrates', you are indeed stopping "chemtrails"(the hoax).
You are one of my finest appendages, working ceaselessly to insidiously disrupt and divide, greasing the engine of your own destruction.
You're check is in the mail...........
Funny how you spelled "you're" just like "Lou Aubuchont" does. I guess you have no explanation for why you went trolling on obscure websites to post about when dogwoods bloom. I guess you have no response to why you posted that HR2977 was a classic bait and switch to demoralize chemtrail believers. I guess you'll never admit that the use of the word "appendage" was my word, as I used it to refer to Halvar. Keep posting you low level spooks. You are helping the reader to decide.
Jeff Reynolds
06-02-2007, 01:10 PM
Oh my !!!
Let's see here....shall we untangle these monstrous webs YOU weave?
You usually means one person, but I'll assume you just made a grammatical mistake.
Jeff sees counter agents at every turn, purposeful distractors within the chemtrail movement as embedded "fakers." But everyone?
Uhm, I didn't say everyone, but nearly everyone. Your inability to interact with even a few of the many discrepancies uncovered, shows that you are either in on it or have tunnel vision.
Halva sees the dynamics of social interaction with various board names and arguments as all out social "war." And he uses Lou's hate for Reynolds as a support for his own lust for drama in his own otherwise boring and sunny Greek life.
Lou joins a new board and attacks the unknown, assuming the war drama, attacking for his own lust for control and information, stewing in some kind of internet drama soup.
Funny how you are trying to circumscribe what myself and may41970 have uncovered into your own description of chemtrail forum fakery.
Jay Reynolds has been accused of something impossible and illogical as though he would pull names randomly from an internet site and use it for WHO KNOW WHAT reason....
Ok, why can't you respond with a comment or two on how Lord Jay went to that obscure website to troll about dogwoods blooming, or how he posted that HR2977 was a classic bait and switch to demoralize chemtrail believers? All one sees is a lot of longwinded spam from you, leading one to believe that it is your role to present chemtrails as an enigma.
Beyond the phone call weirdness, Lou accused me of trolling. I don't even know what trolling is.
Yeah right, someone posts on internet boards, yet doesn't understand what trolling is. Nice try.
My stance of pure open mindedness doesn't baffle Footsoldier nor does it baffle Jay Reynolds. I find both of them intelligent. My non-commitment from the viewpoint and paradigm lusters for war and drama cannot obviously be trusted for some reason. I must, in their eyes, be on SOME SIDE of their narrow TWO SIDED INTERNET DRAMA/REALITY. GET IT?
You are anything but openminded. Have you no comment about Foot Soldier scrubbing her original contrails- some sanity post? Have you no curiousity of why someone like FS/ Deborah has spent all these years on chemtrail boards, but has provided nothing but "enigmas", just like you do?
We see Paul, a mere youngster, attempting to understand weather predictions and patterns and huffing and puffing about his "power." Let him be. Remember the Beatles song, "Let It Be" ???
So basically you have no problem with tinfoil by association. If you truly were an advocate of the truth, however, you would be very concerned that nutjobs may be giving newbies an excuse to think chemtrails are a crazy, internet hoax.
We see paranoia in the form of projecting evil intents onto others whom one doesn't know. It's a normal kind of human reaction to new members of a group, but in the case of this overly dramatized fantasy internet world, you've projected yourself right out of reality. Get back down to earth. Give yourself time to be known and time to know others.
It'd be nice if you could chill out with the longwinded posts and answer some of the specific points that have been raised. You appear to simply be trying to co-opt May and my idea that there is some scripted debate on the chemtrail boards, yet your explanation is that people have too much time on their hands and are making assumptions about people they don't know.
We see overreacting and drama created by the so-called debunkers and defenders of "spraying theory" and it is true that many of those opposing purposeful spraying or purposeful fuel tampering theories can be quite zealous....no question...and no question that boundaries have been crossed in many cases. But I personally was not aware of that level of zealotry. I heard about it, but I did not witness it here. At CTC someone attempted to prevent a student from researching the subject of "chemtrails" and you know how I feel about that. When the purpose of a board is to collect information on a particular topic and a poster asks for that information and another poster claims that the subject or topic is "bogus" and they criticize their teacher for such an open assignment.........well...that goes against my values of freedom itself.
The #1 goal of the chemtrail forum fakery is to deter real people from posting on these message boards. The #2 goal is that if good n uggets are posted, or if a good dialogue is ever established, that the "enigma" and "noise to signal" ratios be heightened.
So basically, according to the broomstick, "you" means me, may, halvar, kola, lou, cd, and others. She clearly is attacking the "believers" and not the "debunkers", while also atte3mpting to get myself and may41970 lumped in with all the crazy posts.
Lord Renolds? Come on !!!
I'm not sure where the Lord Reynolds moniker derived, but it is fitting. He has never seen a damaging post about himself or his posts that he couldn't ignore or distort. Same now as we see with this longwinded boomerchick.
I hear you, Jay. If you made the call, it certainly couldn't have come from Colorado. The whole thing feels slimy and icky to me. I'm off to take a shower!
Have a good day ALL and please learn something from this.
Any doubts I had about you being a fake are gone. If you were gonna act as a "moderator" here, you needed to stop lumping everyone into the same chemboat. The reader can see what you have ignored, and what you have promoted. Turning things into an "enigma" is a classic disinformation strategy. Spamming without addressing key points is a classic disinformation strategy. Blaming the messenger is a classic disinformation strategy. Circumscribing truths into some overall script is a classic disinformation strategy.
Oh my !!!
Let's see here....shall we untangle these monstrous webs YOU weave?
Jeff sees counter agents at every turn, purposeful distractors within the chemtrail movement as embedded "fakers." But everyone?
Halva sees the dynamics of social interaction with various board names and arguments as all out social "war." And he uses Lou's hate for Reynolds as a support for his own lust for drama in his own otherwise boring and sunny Greek life.
Lou joins a new board and attacks the unknown, assuming the war drama, attacking for his own lust for control and information, stewing in some kind of internet drama soup.
Jay Reynolds has been accused of something impossible and illogical as though he would pull names randomly from an internet site and use it for WHO KNOW WHAT reason. I never did find out what the call was about. And of course Reynolds, like myself, in his logic realizes, as I do, that no proof was given about the call. No caller ID number, no area code, and you know what? Even if Lou looked up Colorado and took a stab at one of the area codes and scoured my posts to find out exactly in what county I live, we still couldn't believe him. He would have to fax or scan a copy of his phone bill to prove it. Period. Complete with dates and times. And Jay pretended he was me, the call certainly did not originate from Colorado. A simple check on the area code would have told "Tiff" that fact. Data does not jive, here. I smell something rotten in the state of Louville.
Beyond the phone call weirdness, Lou accused me of trolling. I don't even know what trolling is. I don't visit other boards to see what's going on, never involved myself in the debate between lingering contrails and purposeful spraying other than right here and I refused to take sides preferring to remain open to all evidence supporting either or both views. However, if something was flat out wrong and incorrect, I would jump in and oppose the statement or theory. It's really not an either or argument as those who think in BLACK AND WHITE manipulate the issue into overly simplistic terms.
My stance of pure open mindedness doesn't baffle Footsoldier nor does it baffle Jay Reynolds. I find both of them intelligent. My non-commitment from the viewpoint and paradigm lusters for war and drama cannot obviously be trusted for some reason. I must, in their eyes, be on SOME SIDE of their narrow TWO SIDED INTERNET DRAMA/REALITY. GET IT?
The focus for anyone should be upon one thing and one thing only: THE TRUTH. And the TRUTH my friends, could be many sided and far more intricate than it appears. That is no reason to attempt to narrow your focus and simplify issues to the point of "good and bad" , "fence sitters or debunkers".................. let all others find the truth at their own pace.
When you see something as truth, be prepared to defend it with logic and evidence. That's all we can do.
We see Paul, a mere youngster, attempting to understand weather predictions and patterns and huffing and puffing about his "power." Let him be. Remember the Beatles song, "Let It Be" ???
We see lonely people. We see people with time enough to read and write and think. And that's a blessing for those who have the time.
We see paranoia in the form of projecting evil intents onto others whom one doesn't know. It's a normal kind of human reaction to new members of a group, but in the case of this overly dramatized fantasy internet world, you've projected yourself right out of reality. Get back down to earth. Give yourself time to be known and time to know others.
We see overreacting and drama created by the so-called debunkers and defenders of "spraying theory" and it is true that many of those opposing purposeful spraying or purposeful fuel tampering theories can be quite zealous....no question...and no question that boundaries have been crossed in many cases. But I personally was not aware of that level of zealotry. I heard about it, but I did not witness it here. At CTC someone attempted to prevent a student from researching the subject of "chemtrails" and you know how I feel about that. When the purpose of a board is to collect information on a particular topic and a poster asks for that information and another poster claims that the subject or topic is "bogus" and they criticize their teacher for such an open assignment.........well...that goes against my values of freedom itself.
I liken the debate to the 911 truthers and our opponents. When I argue I argue the issue, not the poster. I argue to support the alternative theories and offer links. If you feel strongly about your theory........support it. Stop attacking the messenger and get back into the truth mode and maintain as much objectivity as you can. Don't go on hunches and stay away from judging others' intents and motives. If you think someone posts with a false identity which we have experienced quite often from one poster up in Current Events, then ignore him/her. I ignore the fake personalities and only respond to the one that I have found is the most real. Some people on the internet have BIG psychological problems. Don't put yourself in that category.
If you post one liners and they're rude half the time or crude....hey.....you don't receive respect.
Jay Reynolds contributed more to supporting his side of any argument than halva did. I did not always agree with Reynolds, but he was articulate and attempting to stick to the topic. Yes, he and Yaak teased halva and IS at times, but dog-gone-it they deserved it and begged for it. At one time I made the comment that there might be some sexual perversions going on. I couldn't believe adult men were behaving this way. Maybe they got off on it for all I know. Lord Renolds? Come on !!! Now that's getting into the Star Wars kinds of fantasies, but halva and Insurrection Chemistry are older guys not raised in the "dark power/light power" dualistic paradigms of the Star Wars mentality. Star Trek actually offered more far seeing reality parameters.
Anyway, I digress.
Where's Lou?
I hear you, Jay. If you made the call, it certainly couldn't have come from Colorado. The whole thing feels slimy and icky to me. I'm off to take a shower!
Have a good day ALL and please learn something from this.
Appreciate it.
BC :rolleyes:
Boomer,
Here I am.
You know what feels " slimy and icky " here to me, it's how you always find a way to defend 'Reynolds' actions, you two play off each other very well and I can not help but believe that you two are working together in spite of your denials.
You know what they say about "if it walks like a duck, it must be a "?
The Onion Framer could answer my question of who this "Chickiedeb" person is but he can't or won't even offer to point me to one thing that she has posted anywhere on the internet, certainly since she worked with him so closely on his debunking project she must be known to someone on some forum as a critic of Chemtrail spraying.
It's just not believable or realistic that this "Chickiedeb" was never heard of, before or after helping 'Reynolds' to such a great extent in his debunking efforts of 'S.T. Brendts' Chemtrail reporting.
Perhaps 'Reynolds' reluctance to identify just who this "Chickiedeb" is, lies in the fact that there is no one that goes by the named of "Chickiedeb", is it just a fabricated name, created by 'Reynolds' or the REAL PERSON who aided him in his debunking?
Was it not 'Reynolds" own mouth that said something like, "anyone who calls themselves a Chemtrail activist should be willing to use their real name in there work, writings", etc. Shouldn't we then expect the same of 'Reynolds' and anyone that contributes to his work, why does he then use this generic, anonymous "Chickiedeb" charter if as he believes, people should not be anonymous, given his use of "Chickiedeb" his position seems untenably hypocritical when he makes "real name" demands of others.
Yes, you are quite correct 'Boomer', something does feel "slimy and icky" about this whole "Chickiedeb" thing, who is it that created that name, who used it when calling S.T. Brendt, who uses it recently in explaining who helped in his debunking work, IT WAS NOT ME 'Boomer', so you might consider looking for your answers at the source_unless of course you already know the answers.
You speak of TRUTH 'Boomer' but you seem to be aiding 'Reynolds' in covering it up, that's not an attack on you, just an observation.
Yes, truth, I did finally come to this forum, like it or not, at 'Halva's' constant urging, to attempt to turn this Science section into something other than 'Reynolds' private shooting gallery and to see if I could get more people interested in posting here, I think I have succeeded in doing both, not by my self mind you but I believe that I got the ball rolling in good shape.
It is far from prefect but there are more people here now and old motor mouth 'Reynolds' has been pretty much sidelined by his own admission, so, all and all, I think this section of DBS has been improved dramatically from what it was.
Would you rather see it as it was, with 'Reynolds' attacking everyone that post here, we do have a new breed of nit-wit running his mouth constantly about everyone being fakes, etc,...but he is more annoying and monotonous than seriously vile as 'Reynolds' is, he is even humorous with some of his off the wall outrageous antics and it is good to be able to laugh once in awhile in these threads that seem so full of gloom and doom all of the time.
Ok, ...that's enough of this for awhile, got to shut down, thunder storms moving in.
EdSnell
06-02-2007, 02:55 PM
Lou, I don't have time to read all of this, but your comments about chickiedeb caught my attention. I have seen this Internet handle pop-up several times recently on chemmie boards.
Let me give you some help here. Chickiedeb is Deb Phalen: one of the sanest, sweetest, most decent people I have encountered on the Internet. I have a a tremendous amount of respect for her, and one of these days I am going to except her invitation to go sailing with her and her husband.
She used to be a chemmie but eventually came to the same conclusion that I did, and that conclusion is: nobody is intentionally doing anything to make contrails persist and cloud over the skies.
For the time being, Deb appears to have given up Internet forums. I or Jay could put her in touch with you if the two of you mutually agreed.
Lou, I don't have time to read all of this, but your comments about chickiedeb caught my attention. I have seen this Internet handle pop-up several times recently on chemmie boards.
Let me give you some help here. Chickiedeb is Deb Phalen: one of the sanest, sweetest, most decent people I have encountered on the Internet. I have a a tremendous amount of respect for her, and one of these days I am going to except her invitation to go sailing with her and her husband.
She used to be a chemmie but eventually came to the same conclusion that I did, and that conclusion is: nobody is intentionally doing anything to make contrails persist and cloud over the skies.
For the time being, Deb appears to have given up Internet forums. I or Jay could put her in touch with you if the two of you mutually agreed.
Ed,
Thank you very much for that bit of information, gee, how hard would it have been for "Reynolds" to have done the same but "No" he has to play his little games.
You mentioned that 'Deb Phalen' / "Chickiedeb" use to post at various boards, I have been around this Chemtrail issue on the internet since 2002 and I have been to many, many message boards and Chemtrail forums but I have never heard or seen anyone going by the "Chickiedeb" screen name.
Alright, now that I have a name to put with the "Chickiedeb" I'm finding all kinds of links to more info, I first got online back around 2001-2, how did I miss this stuff?
Although the information is helpful in determining just who "Chickiedeb" is, it does not help with regard to who it was that called 'S.T. Brendt' back in 2003 claiming to be 'Boomer Chick' / "Chickiedeb", it only deepens the mystery and now creates a paradox not only for 'Boomer Chick' but also for 'Deb Phalen' as well considering that it was probably not her that called S.T. Brendt back in 2003.
I'd have her post the whole story a she is the one that got the original call but no doubt 'Reynolds' would just accuse me of posting as Tiffany, according to him, I'm everyone that post here,....Ha.
Looks like I owe 'Boomer Chick" a HUGE, HUGE APOLOGY, BOY, IS MY FACE RED !
Yup_Looks like I owe 'Boomer Chick" a HUGE, HUGE APOLOGY, BOY, IS MY FACE RED !
:redface::redface::redface::rolleyes:
Boomer Chick, I humbly apologize to you for my, yes, rude and obnoxious accusations which now after being given some enlightening information by Ed Snell, ( Thanks again Ed.) I truly believe that you had nothing to do with calling S.T. Brendt back in 2003 and you are not, nor have you ever been "Chickiedeb",
Had 'Reynolds' had the decency that Ed Snell has, he would have volunteered the same information right up front and my accusations directed at you would have ceased immediately but he just had to withhold the information which he knew would clear you of any wrongdoing that I suspected you of, isn't he just a nice guy for doing that, a real saint.
Anyway, you will get no more grief from me about this, I was totally wrong in accusing you, I feel like a FOOL and I hope that you can accept my apology and forgive me for being such a JERK / IDIOT.
I think it was 'Alexander Pope' who wrote, "Tis Human To Err, Tis Divine To Forgive", boy, did I ever "ERR" big time,... I hope you feeling Divine.
I will now go and kick myself numerous times.
Boomer Chick
06-02-2007, 10:20 PM
You usually means one person, but I'll assume you just made a grammatical mistake.
"You" can be used as a plural pronoun. Are you baiting me into telling you grammar rules?
Uhm, I didn't say everyone, but nearly everyone. Your inability to interact with even a few of the many discrepancies uncovered, shows that you are either in on it or have tunnel vision.I have precisely defined tunnel vision on both sides of the contrail/chemtrail debate. I did not leave out anyone except those who are sticklers for the truth and the truth only and those people stay open to all incoming data.
Funny how you are trying to circumscribe what myself and may41970 have uncovered into your own description of chemtrail forum fakery.No indeed. I'm not aware of invented personalities if there are any. You think Lou is Reynolds? I'll think about that.
Ok, why can't you respond with a comment or two on how Lord Jay went to that obscure website to troll about dogwoods blooming, or how he posted that HR2977 was a classic bait and switch to demoralize chemtrail believers? All one sees is a lot of longwinded spam from you, leading one to believe that it is your role to present chemtrails as an enigma.The dogwoods? How completely and utterly unimportant that little excursion was. Why do you care? All I recall is that someone came on the board and challenged Jay as to when some plant was blooming in his area or not. A rather innocuous conversation that had nothing to do with bait and switch or anything.
"Longwinded spam?" Inigma? Did I mention chemtrails at all in my spamming obsession here? I mentioned how obsessed some of the various theorists present themselves to be on the side of purposeful spraying AND the side of contrails forming pollutants and cirrus. How can pointing out behaviors be interpreted as reframing the "chemtrail"reality as an enigma? You make no sense.
Yeah right, someone posts on internet boards, yet doesn't understand what trolling is. Nice try.What is your problem? You don't seem to be able to read OR think. Step back, take a breath and read someone's words as though they tell the truth. I'll tell you what. Get up in the morning and pray to your God to help you see reality in the words of others. Ask for discernment, because you, my young friend, are losing it big time. I am an intelligent and mature woman and I see in you a definite problem with your discernment of reality. I'm telling you, if you arise each morning and set your intentions in this direction with sincere intent, you will improve. But who knows if you're a poseur? Hmmm?
You are anything but open minded. Oh really? You know me, do you? You know all about human behavior, do you?
Have you no comment about Foot Soldier scrubbing her original contrails- some sanity post? Have you no curiousity of why someone like FS/ Deborah has spent all these years on chemtrail boards, but has provided nothing but "enigmas", just like you do?I don't care what FS did to her original post. I don't care one bit because my sense of self and reality is not based in what others write or decide to change. It's their business and their right and I simply don't care. Why do you sound like the old Jay R here? Hmmm?
So basically you have no problem with tinfoil by association. To whom am I associated? Again your use of "tinfoil" sounds strangely akin to Reynolds.
If you truly were an advocate of the truth, however, you would be very concerned that nutjobs may be giving newbies an excuse to think chemtrails are a crazy, internet hoax. "Hoax?" Sounding like Reynolds again! Actually, the reality is: there are nut jobs everywhere. They're on the internet and they post in all kinds of forums. Some get carried away. But intelligent and centered folk can sift through the nutters and find the truth for themselves. I'm not responsible for anyone but myself. Get it?
It'd be nice if you could chill out with the longwinded posts and answer some of the specific points that have been raised.Your points? You seem like the most long winded C & P poster at this board. Why should I care what you say? I wait to see over time if someone like you makes sense, and so far I'm not seeing a grounded intelligence here. You skip all over the place and seem to be grounded in sanity one minute and off in the clouds of paranoid fantasy in another. I cannot cater to your every whim. I am not in the same place as you. But you are free to fly with one wing or two and I shall not impede your fight paths.
You appear to simply be trying to co-opt May and my idea that there is some scripted debate on the chemtrail boards, yet your explanation is that people have too much time on their hands and are making assumptions about people they don't know.That's part of it. There are simply people who believe what they believe because they just do. They sometimes get stuck in modes of operation, get involved in strings of thought that connect to each other but not to reality at both ends, if you know what I mean. There may be people taking on false personas or people sincere in their obsessions no matter how wrong you find them to be. Again, you sound similar to jay Reynolds in that he saw everyone seeking answers as "hoaxers" which entails an element of purposeful deceit. Do you understand this? Sincerity and deceit are complete opposites. I've tried to explain this to you on this board before, but you don't read ..............I guess. You keep repeating yourself.
Boomer Chick
06-02-2007, 10:27 PM
The #1 goal of the chemtrail forum fakery is to deter real people from posting on these message boards. The #2 goal is that if good n uggets are posted, or if a good dialogue is ever established, that the "enigma" and "noise to signal" ratios be heightened.So the "fake" people on chemtrail boards want to disrupt? Then I would say halva fits that description but guess what? He's real. You fit that description, too. I was attacked and spent time defending myself. Lou seems to fit that description, too.
So basically, according to the broomstick,Excuse me?
"you" means me, may, halvar, kola, lou, cd, and others.I didn't mention May or CD. And if you read everything you would not have simplified it the way you did. My paradigm was WIDE yours is still narrow.
She clearly is attacking the "believers" and not the "debunkers", Excuse me? I think people can and do think for themselves. They don't need you to tell them what I said and I don't need you twisting my words. I attacked the narrow inflexibility of BOTH sides. You missed my point entirely. Remember my mentioning BLACK AND WHITE thinking?
while also atte3mpting to get myself and may41970 lumped in with all the crazy posts.And it may be shocking to you. But from the perspectives of many others, your thesis of "fakers" at chemtrail sites may seem crazy and odd to others. Did you ever contemplate that possibility? That Canadian site, for example, that I posted for you. Do you honestly think people there trying to find out the truth are faking it? I can imagine maybe a person here and there actually just posing as this or that....like I said I've seen it....but who cares? You know what you think? Isn't that the most important aspect of it all? Isn't the final and most important product your mind's ability to find and comprehend the truth of an event. If you want to share that truth with others just focus on it and it alone and share it. What's so difficult about that? If someone wants to disagree make them prove their point...you prove yours.
I'm not sure where the Lord Reynolds moniker derived, but it is fitting.Oh is it? It sounds gay to me! Lord? Are you sure you aren't jay himself posing as Jeff? Sounds like an ego trip or a son following in his father's footsteps!
He has never seen a damaging post about himself or his posts that he couldn't ignore or distort. Same now as we see with this longwinded boomerchick.Oh yes, for poor readers who lack comprehension skills, my writing is nothing but bombast! I took a course from Dr. Bombastioni himself, so I perfected the skill.
Any doubts I had about you being a fake are gone. A fake what? Do you even know? A fake woman? A fake person? A fake persistent contrail researcher? A fake open minded person? A fake and made up board personality so that I can waste the shit out of my life? Are you TOTALLY INSANE? Or are you baiting me?
If you were gonna act as a "moderator" here, you needed to stop lumping everyone into the same chemboat. Chemboat? Cute. Excuse me? I characterized everyone individually and as a general interactive group quite well thank you. The fact that you can't comprehend is your problem, not mine. And your talents at distraction are admirable. You like to distract and get off topic? Similar to halva.
The reader can see what you have ignored, and what you have promoted.WHAT did I ignore? Did you require of me something that I didn't give to you? Were there expectations of my performance here? What a strange and odd thing to say! Think about it! I said what I said and you must be smoking something quite powerful because this is plain projection and expectation with no grounding in reality.
Turning things into an "enigma" is a classic disinformation strategy. Yes, I took a course in spamming for enigma creating. What a techno geek that instructor turned out to be! He assured me that with my skills, I could wreak havoc with dope smokers all over the internet. Why I could go to so many boards and create so many enigmas that I would be crowned Queen of Enigma Village someday and to that goal I aspire.
Spamming without addressing key points is a classic disinformation strategy.Yes, and the one credit spamming course will always aid my pursuits on boards. I love to talk about nothing.
Blaming the messenger is a classic disinformation strategy.Yes, as I've always said since I was a child, "blaming the person who communicates a message always makes your side of an argument RIGHT. Oh yes, and when I learned that in school, taught it to high schoolers in their essay writing, why the concept just grew and grew in popularity and before you knew it.....I had coined a new form of accepted debate technique. Yes, the Republicans adopted my strategy and KKK Rove implemented it in election 2004 with the swift boating of Kerry. Ah yes, I remember it well with fondness.
Circumscribing truths into some overall script is a classic disinformation strategy.If you were too dense to pick up my sarcasm know this:
YOU NEED HELP.
halva
06-03-2007, 12:26 AM
Bad luck about that deal, Jeff Reynolds. It seems to be coming unstuck.
Jeff Reynolds
06-03-2007, 12:27 AM
"You" can be used as a plural pronoun. Are you baiting me into telling you grammar rules?
You shouldn't lump everyone into a you, you dumbass fake.
I have precisely defined tunnel vision on both sides of the contrail/chemtrail debate. I did not leave out anyone except those who are sticklers for the truth and the truth only and those people stay open to all incoming data.
You are only into flooding the board with spam, whether it's copy and pasting like the foot scab, or whether it's ur over the top anything but direct to the point posts.
No indeed. I'm not aware of invented personalities if there are any. You think Lou is Reynolds? I'll think about that.
I said they were in on the same scam u disingenuous piece of shit. They could possibly be the same person, but they are definitely in cahoots. If you look at the Tracker shit, if you really look at what has been written instead of just responding with ur spam, then maybe people would give a shit what u think.
The dogwoods? How completely and utterly unimportant that little excursion was. Why do you care? All I recall is that someone came on the board and challenged Jay as to when some plant was blooming in his area or not. A rather innocuous conversation that had nothing to do with bait and switch or anything.
You think so asshole? Jay went to an obscure board and starting hounding people there about dogwoods blooming, implying that a "Josh Peters" was a chemmie hoaxer. Now why can't you fucking look at exactly what is being said and respond to that spooky?
]"Longwinded spam?" Inigma? Did I mention chemtrails at all in my spamming obsession here? I mentioned how obsessed some of the various theorists present themselves to be on the side of purposeful spraying AND the side of contrails forming pollutants and cirrus. How can pointing out behaviors be interpreted as reframing the "chemtrail"reality as an enigma? You make no sense.
It's spelled enigma, u low level, jackass, astroturfing bitch. Why would Jay Reynolds go to that obscure board? Why did he say HR2977 was a classic bait and switch on chemtrail believers? U r full of shit just like Foot Soldier and the rest of the fakes, as any objective reader can see. Anyone objective can see what u treasonous fucks answer and what u don't.
What is your problem?
Treasonous asshole astroturfers like you who muddy the waters. You are a rotten to the core paid bitch troll or their useful idiot.
I don't care what FS did to her original post. I don't care one bit because my sense of self and reality is not based in what others write or decide to change. It's their business and their right and I simply don't care. Why do you sound like the old Jay R here? Hmmm?
He is my evil cousin, u spook. Her changing that post changed the whole thread. You're a slime bucket who just like Lord Jay never debates fair.
To whom am I associated? Again your use of "tinfoil" sounds strangely akin to Reynolds.
There's a big difference asswipe. I am just a citizen from Massachusetts who is fully aware of the chemtrailing. I have no connections to any fruitcakes like William Cooper.
You might as well be up in those planes with all the other fake personas.
Jeff Reynolds
06-03-2007, 12:31 AM
This is what the BroomStick looks like, very similar to the Foot Scab:
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/e/e0/MargaretHamiltoninTheWizardOfOz.jpg
halva
06-03-2007, 12:53 AM
I would like to use a description of my activities over this past weekend to explain my position that the role of debunkers is to be excluded from discussion here and indeed from all public discussion of important matters for the future of this planet and the people and higher life forms on it.
These last two days I have been on the island of Skyros in Greece, not on my own business, but as companion to another person who had business here. That business included a public meeting organized by the municipality for citizens and other interested parties to discuss plans for installing in the southern part of the island one hundred and eleven wind generators for production of electricity. Skyros is an island whose economy is largely dependent on tourism. It does not have the kind of “clout” of windier islands like Tinos, where the Orthodox Church is strong, or Andros, the island of wealthy shipowners . This may have something to do with its having been chosen, despite its lesser suitability, to host what opponents claim will be “the largest wind park in the world”.
Skyros is divided virtually in two, comprising a fertile northern part and a barren southern part, which is however a nature reserve and a refuge for a threatened species of wild pony. A large part of the land in the more fertile northern part of the island has already been taken over by the Greek military. There is a military airport on the island. Noisy and polluting military exercises are held here.
Needless to say chemtrails have been continuously present in the sky over Skyros, as with everywhere I have been in Greece in recent years.
The line-up for the public meeting on Skyros was that Greenpeace and national and international ecological organizations and “the scientific community” were playing the role of the pro-“development” baddies and the local ecological organizations and citizens’ groups had the “Not In My Backyard” role. As a model for a future world this is my ideal. Having the ecologists as the baddies is a much preferable paradigm to having the ecologists as the goodies.
For a start the situation was democratic. Wind energy is not a branch of the economy that has apparently been targeted as a client by private “security” organizations. No private “security” men were visible. The Greek state, too, doubtless for its own reasons, had decided not to have a heavy police presence, or indeed any visible police presence, at this potentially noisy and angry public meeting. The only security present was provided by citizens’ democratic instincts, and that, for all the hot temper and the shouting, proved to be enough.
As for the scheme, which does indeed involve the takeover of the entirety of the southern part of Skyros by wind generators, it is doubtless extreme. The company that wants to do it insists in proceeding on an “all or nothing” basis, because the objective is to provide electricity not just for local needs but for the national grid, and large investments are involved, particularly for transmission of the power to the mainland.
On Saturday evening we were sitting in an idyllic restaurant looking out over the mountain whose destiny, if the scheme goes ahead, is to be covered by huge wind generators. At night these generators will have to have anti-aircraft warning lights. It didn’t require much imagination to see that the establishment of this wind park will turn what is at present a pleasant, tranquil tourist environment into a something unnerving and in no way relaxing.
What about the argument that renewable energy has greater potential for long-term viability than present forms of tourism? This was an argument that was used at the meeting, in connection with “peak oil”.
Greenpeace’s stance at the meeting would have been disappointing for local ecologists with hopes that they would find an understanding ally. It was confined to a defence of wind power and renewable energy resources at the level of generalities. Greenpeace did not lend its authority to the locals’ “compromise proposal” of being prepared to accept up to twenty generators but not one hundred and eleven. The company’s “all or nothing” stance remains the basis for negotiations.
If there had been an input into this meeting from “debunkers” and/or “sceptics” sponsored by oil companies or other powerful lobbies, the scene would have been very different. For a start, there would have been draconian security. Security companies are business partners of these big lobbies. Secondly, the naïve, genuine and innocent local opposition would have been transformed into something sinister. There would have been spokespersons agitating for Greek withdrawal from the provisions of the Protocol of Kyoto. There would have been people touting nuclear energy, currently almost without a popular base of support in Greece, as a “solution”.
Greenpeace with its commitment to renewable energy sources has to date been an ally in the privatisation and dismantlement of the formerly state-owned Public Power Company, whose chain of power stations burn lignite, a resource which Greece has in abundance, (or imported oil). The coal-burning and Kyoto-sabotaging Public Power Company has been every ecologist’s bogeyman . Now non-state-controlled alternative energy resources are going ahead, with Greenpeace’s blessing and backing. It is a new form of power politics. But it is the model we must support, and strengthen, by marginalizing, defeating and silencing the debunkers and climate change “sceptics”.
The two sides of OUR debate were present at Skyros, Greenpeace the power-broker,. with its “scientific community” allies. And the local opposition.
We must resolutely reject and smash any alternative scenarios and alternative “debates”. If Americans cannot do it, or help to do it, the rest of the world will do to you what the US did to the Soviet Union.
jayreynolds
06-03-2007, 06:07 AM
We must resolutely reject and smash any alternative scenarios and alternative “debates”. If Americans cannot do it, or help to do it, the rest of the world will do to you what the US did to the Soviet Union.
Wayne Hall, always the draconian totalitarian's advocate.
jayreynolds
06-03-2007, 07:12 AM
That business included a public meeting organized by the municipality for citizens and other interested parties to discuss plans for installing in the northern part of the island one hundred and eleven wind generators for production of electricity.
what opponents claim will be “the largest wind park in the world”.
.
Opponents need to stop lying.
Norway Firm Plans World's Biggest Wind Park
"In the basic plan, the parks would have a total of 334 turbines of 4.5 MW each, but the number of turbines could vary from 188 to 500 if a bigger or smaller turbine is chosen, Havgul said in background material."
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/35223/story.htm
Now, remember these are proposed wind farms.
I was recently in West Texas and witnessed enormous wind farms in that rather barren countryside. In Texas they do things big, they like things BIG. Texas is so far ahead of the rest of the world and growing so fast in wind generation, it it doubtful that anywhere else will catch up.
Roads were clogged with convoys of trucks carrying 90 ft long blades for the behemoths, and I was told that the generator/gearbox casings at the center of each turbine were the size of highway buses.
http://smu.edu/newsinfo/stories/governor-smu-2oct2006.asp
Texas already has 2455 generators working. Over 800 more are in the construction or planning stages. One offshore plant p[lans 500 turbines.
Texas has surpassed California:
"FPL Energy, LLC, a subsidiary of FPL Group (NYSE:FPL - News) has announced that "as of the end of August it had completed 662 megawatts of the Horse Hollow Wind Energy Center in Texas making it the largest wind farm in the world. When the last phase of the project is complete later this month, the Horse Hollow Wind Energy Center will have a total capacity of 735 megawatts". The Center has "291 GE 1.5 megawatt wind turbines and 130 Siemens 2.3 megawatt wind turbines..." OK Arnold, you better get kickin because: "According to AWEA, at the end of the second quarter of 2006 Texas' cumulative total stood at 2,370 megawatts of capacity followed by California's 2,323 megawatts"."
http://smu.edu/newsinfo/stories/governor-smu-2oct2006.asp
Oh, and lest noisy Greeks think they will ever be world players, look at how far you have to go to play catch up:
http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/2006/Update52_data.htm#graph2
CDsNuTz
06-03-2007, 01:09 PM
FOR LOU:
NOW CONCENTRATE AND TRY TO THINK WHILE YOU READ:
First of all, you have given no proof whatsoever that anyone did in fact call you. How am I supposed to know that what you say is true? You are a stranger to me, totally. You could be making everything up as far as I or anyone knows. But Lou, I will just give you that someone called whoever Brendt a "few years ago." You never mentioned whether this someone was a male or a female, did you? And you didn't have the common courtesy to tell about the nature of the call. How am I supposed to have any kind of empathy when you fail to communicate anything about it? And because of CDNutz I guess I have to say: NO, I DID NOT MAKE A CALL TO SOMEONE AND I RESENT YOUR ACCUSING ME OF MAKING A CALL THAT YOU VAGUELY REFER TO AS SOMEHOW RUDE.
I will repeat that I have only used one name with "chick" in it and I composed that name for the first time when I joined the CTC board, Sept. 2003 -- Boomer Chick. In what month did you receive your so-named "call?" Might you have misheard something in that call? Might the 'chick' word have stuck in your heads and you assumed that Boomer"chick" was somehow the same person when you read the name, Boomerchick? You know, this is about as far-fetched a story as I have patience to accept. If someone used my board name, then I guess they did and that is that. But it makes no sense.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001445-9.html
Before that time and during, I was Laurel XXXXXX over on the yahoo board.
I don't know people in Maine. I don't recall anyone on either CTC or yahoo who was named "chickiedeb"
As I told you before, which you failed to remember when responding, I didn't even meet Jay Reynolds until I joined the DBS board at halva's request. Do you see my joining date? Jay Reynolds didn't know I existed until I joined DBS, formerly Arianna Online. Maybe someone saw my board name over at CTC? I wouldn't have had any idea in that case if anyone was using my board name for any reason. As far as reality is concerned I didn't even meet Jay Reynolds until Jan. of 2005. I wrote all of this before and I and others other than halva would not consider my relationship with Jay Reynolds as "close " since then. Because I didn't "war" with him may not please those in the war mentality game...that's just too bad.
I accept your apology.
Might you also be aware that your links didn't support what you were saying at all. None of them had anything to do with me.
Now if you're through with attempting to squeeze information out of me to appease your feelings of insecurity and possibly feel superior in this low life version of data mining, then we shall now begin the process of mature adult posting, if you don't mind.
I hope your friend's trauma has healed and I hope you are able to maintain clear thinking and logic. So far, I'm not
impressed.
BC :cool:
LOU:
Having trouble with your [/B]BS detector? Call Braino Rooter! :D
Thanks for responding BC, as far as I'm concerned you're innocent until proven guitly.
halva
06-03-2007, 02:41 PM
Why is it that you, an insignificant Onion Farmer in Arkansas has taken it upon yourself to attack anyone who tries to report truthfully and honestly what they are seeing going on in our sky's
This is the problem with Lou. I support him on principle, because he makes the basic friend/enemy distinction. But he is still asking Reynolds why he does what he does, as if he expects an answer.
Dewey has said she is not talking to me, but if she were talking to me, Dewey, do you want to know why Reynolds does what he does? If not, what do you want to know?
someone ban me again... from this fuckin soap opera horseshit.
wheres the science??
HUH????
Boomer Chick
06-03-2007, 07:17 PM
Thanks for responding BC, as far as I'm concerned you're innocent until proven guitly.
Meaning you believe the truth of what I say? If you followed the timeline of my internet career at all, you would know that what Lou says was impossible. I never was ga-ga over chemtrails to the point of being motivated to harrass anybody at any time and when Jay was debunking around the net, I was posting and researching 911 on CTC. Here, I read articles, visited Carnicom, listened to Nick Begich, discovered HAARP, investigated all manner of sightings, read at the Santa Cruz board, took photos, researched universities, NOAA................ you name it .....and still although I spent all that time and energy I found evidence that points to localized experiments in the military and through NASA/NOAA, but nothing involving Al and Ba. These additives seem to be the major bone of safety issues related to suspected experiments with persistant contrails. Patents do not necessarily mean that they're being used for harming anything but bugs and fires. It's just not enough evidence. A document written by an Air Force official or group expressing the desire to "own the weather" doesn't in itself mean proof, either.
Mixing up identities, accusing complete strangers of weird and anti-social behavior is not something I take lightly. This man, Lou, had better staighten up his act, or I will formally place a complaint against him with the owners of the board. An apology is accepted, but that must be followed by good behavior, too.
He can rant all he wants about how good this DBS board was when I wasn't here, but I have devoted many hours and much energy to this board down here and because I take a break and post above doesn't mean anything but that. No big drama or reasons need be given for my decisions in my private decision-making life. It was boring down here.
I was thankful that halva kept it going and pleasantly surprised to see more members and WHACK! I get hit over the head with charges that sound out and out CRAZY and beyond CRUDE and RUDE to me. A simple little "I'm sorry....my face is red."...smilies and cutesy's.....does not cut it.
I accept the apology, of course, but I will be looking for intelligence. I find it odd, too, that no matter what I said, it made no difference to crazy Lou. I made a great case if you take my evidence and scrutinize it. But you get Yaak to vouch for my identity as NOT that of chickiedeb....and Lou's a happy little camper ready to take back all of his ugliness.
A taste of misogyny anyone? Yes, you can have that one on the silver platter Lou's dishing out. Halva will have some. Jeff will have some. Yummy, heh guys?
Take care of yourself, CDnuTz! ;)
boonerass: This man, Lou, had better staighten up his act, or I will formally place a complaint against him with the owners of the board
really now?
Kola
Lou was the first one to present to me the facts which can determine when contrails can and cannot forrm. And it is proven. Therefore no one can say chemtrails/aerosols/ "THE UNKNOWN" are NORMAL contrails when physics says otherwise.
boomerang..you have done your share of sprading out some shit. Do not play miss innocent. If ya cant take the heat, get otta the kitchen,
kola:cool:
notice how "may" has disappeared? hmmm
halva
06-03-2007, 08:51 PM
BC just shut the fuck up about Lou, about your personal history, about any of this irrelevant gossip. It is outrageous that you accuse me of being a gossip when you want to keep all this garbage going. You won your round with Lou, so now let's move on. What point is there in our having stymied Jeffy if you are going to become Jeff Reynolds Mark 2 yourself, with constant blathering about other posters and regurgitating of the archives of these threads.
Boomer Chick
06-03-2007, 09:00 PM
Lou was the first one to present to me the facts which can determine when contrails can and cannot forrm. And it is proven. Therefore no one can say chemtrails/aerosols/ "THE UNKNOWN" are NORMAL contrails when physics says otherwise.
boomerang..you have done your share of sprading out some shit. Do not play miss innocent. If ya cant take the heat, get otta the kitchen,
kola:cool:
And what poop might that be, koladung?
Did you know the simple fact that the NASA/NOAA satellites can tell the difference between contrail-created cirrus and naturally created cirrus? Similarly, the satellites can tell the difference between contrails formed by ANY aircraft AND regular clouds.
What you said is this:
Conditions under which contrails can form = X
Conditions under which contrails cannot form = Y
Without saying it or expressing it in your sentence you then skip to this:
Y = Z (the kind of contrail that is impossible therefore can be labeled "chemtrail."
Is that right?
You don't think I know this? Do you think I have no brain at all and after years of reading all the articles on the net and watching the skies that I didn't catch this little tidbit? What we see is not the same as knowing the humidity, the temperature, and the other variables which promote contrail formation. In one sky, you can see a jet plane issuing contrails and another jet plane without a contrail. Why is that? Is it definite proof that the one with contrails is spewing some kind of sinister chemical a.k.a. --- Al and/or Ba? Not necessarily. There are various layers present in the atmosphere that contain various temperatures, humidities, and air pressures, even. One jet plane can travel a couple of thousand or even a couple of hundred feet higher or lower than another and the conditions will differ. In order to KNOW without a shadow of a doubt in which condition the air vehicle in question is flying, you'd have to get the fight log, talk to the captain, or contact your local controllers to know the precise altitude and the weather conditions of the air mass in which the plane was flying. Even on a hot tropospheric day at ground level, a jet plane can fly thousands of feet into the tropopause and it will be super cold and humid at that layer.
I found this article extremely intersting which is based on the Discovery Channel program on the question of contrails being more than just carbon soot and water crystals. Actually, there are other noxious elements like NOx and carbon monoxide, and a sulfurs which transmute into various sulfates and sulfides including H2SO4. I didn't see the special on Discovery, but I really should see if I can find it or buy it in DVD form. My dial up sucks!
http://www.airapparent.ca/library/full_text/discoverychannel_chemtrails.htm
I'm going to read the various comments on the show, too.
What do you think, kola? Did you see the show or watch these videos on it, yet?
halva
06-03-2007, 09:04 PM
By the way, although I myself have opted not to get involved in the contrails/chemtrails debate, I appreciate Lou's efforts to prove that chemtrails are not contrails. His will to find proof and his belief that he has found it are in every way more admirable than your brand of "scepticism".
Yes, like you I say that I "cannot prove" what Lou claims to have proved, but this concession on my part is part of a strategy aimed at combating debunkers, not accommodating to their lies.
halva
06-03-2007, 09:11 PM
I also understand why Lou does not have the energy to argue with you, BC, about this subject and why he chose to go looking for some dirt instead. It is demoralising to have to waste time and energy straightening up someone who is supposed to be on our side. And it is demoralising to have to fight a woman who has chosen to stand proxy for a man, who can thus sit back and watch the little animals fighting among themselves.
.
Well 'Boomer Chick', thanks for all of that - I certainly deserve it considering the hard time I have been giving you, again. I apologize for that.
I did not present the information very well to begin with, so, Let me see if I can clear up some of your questions with regard to the call that 'S.T. Brendt' (Not I ) received from someone (A woman) back in mid spring of 2003 who claimed that they were known as "Boomer," and also sometimes known as "Chickiedeb."
'S.T. Brendt' had received numerous calls after the story she and 'Will Thomas' broke in March of 2001. She changed her phone number to a private number, and then started receiving unsolicited, unwanted calls from 'Reynolds'. She changed her number yet AGAIN in order to stop receiving calls from those kinds of "NUTBALLS".
We have just been discussing all of this and I may have not had all of the facts correct as it was 'S.T. Brendt' that answered the 'Boomer' / 'Chickiedeb' call, plus it was all of four years ago, so, In her own words, I'll let her finish her thoughts on this below.
________________________
Hello Boomer Chick. I am S.T. Brendt. "ST" are the initials of my hyphenated first name. I am only giving out this info because I have been attacked by that jackass, Reynolds, who said he "exposed" me as being named "Tiffany." I am so sick of all of this, I cannot begin to tell you, but I'll try. I am not involved in the Chemtrail fight much anymore as I am self employed, and run three businesses. I’m also in the middle of a huge renovation project. Obviously I don't have much free time on my hands.
I can't remember all the dates and times of the calls I've received. I've documented most, but not all of the calls, especially the calls from those that Lou dubbed as "nutballs." Much of the documentation is over 4 years old, boxed, and in storage. I am renovating - or should I say demolishing - and rebuilding the back of my home while still living, and trying to function in it. I have neither the time, nor inclination to go to the storage area, climb over boxes and furniture, and dig out old files for which I have no immediate use.
I'll tell you what happened, and relate some of what was said to the best of my recollection. I believe it was in 2002 or 2003 when I received a call from Reynolds. I knew it was JR, because I have caller ID. Since I had already changed my number and had it unlisted, I asked him how he managed to get the number. He said he called one of my radio stations, and someone gave him my number. He obtained the number under false pretenses - or should I say fraudulently - from a woman who is no longer employed there. Can you guess why? I read the management at the station the riot act. I really didn't need, and still don't, every crackpot on both sides of the issue trying to convince me to take their side in this debate. Reynolds wouldn't tell me who he was, he just kept asking me if I knew this, or that - prying as much info out of me as he could to try and discredit me. I just played as dumb as I could - since I already knew who he was - and let him go on, cordially at first. I finally told him I knew who he was, and asked how he obtained some other info. He said, "From your mother's obituary." Too much inappropriate prying to suit me. To make a long story short, we finished our conversation; he called a couple of other times, and also spoke with Lou. He had, at that point, already tried his "light" character assassination on us, taking things Deep Sky, Will, Lou, and I said out of context, and outright saying we said things we never said. I say "light" because JR became violently offensive in print shortly after the last of the calls.
I changed my phone number, AGAIN. They don't do this for free, you know - not to mention the extreme hassle of the notification process...don't let's go there.
Sometime between then and the following summer, I believe it was spring also, someone called from the 207 area code, telling me she was known as "chickiedeb," and sometimes as "boomer." She never said "boomerchick" - just "boomer." I saw the call came from Maine, and asked her where she was located, she said north and west of Blue Hill. She said she was staying with friends, and thought Maine winters were too harsh, and long to move here. She never actually told me where she was from, though I asked. That much I remember. She also said she obtained my number from a friend of Will Thomas. That set off an internal alarm, because Will knew better, especially after the Reynolds' incidents. Also, when Will edited the letter I sent him about what I had witnessed on 3/12/01, the resulting piece posted on his website made it appear that a local airport in Maine was the site of Deep Sky's employment. It wasn't, and isn't. Apparently JR called this airport's tower and spoke to someone with whom I had had a conversation on 3/12/01. According to JR, this man denied speaking with me, and also did not want his real name used. I did speak with JRs' "Mr. Greene" - as JR called him - at the airport in question, despite what JR claims that "Mr. Greene" told him. (I can prove it, too, publicly, without outing "Mr. Greene" to the general public.) So Will was aware that we needed to be sensitive to the fact that I was - and quite possibly some of my sources were - being harassed. Therefore Will WOULD NEVER have given ANYONE my new phone number.
So this woman, who called herself, "...chickiedeb and sometimes boomer," LIED to me. I did not make note of the actual date and time, other than what was on my caller ID. I dismissed her as a "Reynolds' fanatic" based on the syrupy sweet manner in which she tried to gain my confidence before she tried to sneak Deep Sky's ID from me, and because I believed JR gave her my number - possibly even asked her to call.
I have no great love for JR. He has accused me of being Lou - or vice versa - Lou of being Halva, Tracker, etc., etc. - ad nauseum. Well Lou IS NOT me, Halva, Tracker, or anyone else. Lou is Lou. Halva is Halva. Tracker is Tracker. Etc., etc. The schmuck has also implied that I am stupid, or inept, or both. He also insists that I am Lou's "girlfriend," as he calls me, just to annoy Lou, and me. I am not a "girl." I am probably older than JR. I am definitely over 18, and that makes me a woman. I am a friend of Lou's, not a romantic interest of Lou's - nor is he of mine. JR's vile attacks on, and lies about people that strongly disagree with him makes him a true jackass. Like Lou, and others, I believe Reynolds has exhibited signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I understand you are friendly with him. Beware.
I, too, would like to see less lunatic fringe fanatics, and angry postings on both sides - and believe me, there are lunatics on both sides. The lunatics on my side of the debate make me, and other people who believe we are being lied to about the chemtrail issue, look crazy. We are not. Reynolds, and others of his ilk, make those that are honest skeptics look like dangerous whack cases, and they are not. Skepticism is good. Debate is good. For my part in this debate what I saw on 3/12/01 was far and away too much air traffic to be "normal" air traffic - even for a Monday." Despite what JR says about the amount of air traffic we have, heavily traveled corridor, skyway, etc., we ARE NOT, in this part of my town - the largest town in land area in all of Maine - under a skyway with heavy air traffic patterns. I do believe that at least some of what we are seeing is purposeful. Even if what we are all seeing - if we pay attention - is "normal contrails," it is not healthy. It is taking perfectly clear blue-sky days, changing the skies to milky white at best, and filling our air with deadly pollutants at worst. We should all band together and convince aircraft manufacturers to make cleaner burning engines in the short run, and change the type of propulsion technology in the long run. GE does have cleaner burning engines in the air right now. As more manufacturers turn to this process, we should see fewer contrails clouding and polluting our skies. If we continue to see these ugly plumes, as I believe we will, I guess we will have our answer(s) to this great debate, won't we?
Thanks to all who take the time to look up, and question.
The REAL S.T. Tiffany Brendt
Believe it or not 'Boomer Chick', I am not nor have I ever been a misogynist, you are as flat out wrong about that as I was about you being this person that called saying that she was 'Boomer' / "Chickiedeb".
I live with a very liberated woman, 'S.T. ( Tiffany ) Brendt' and believe me, were I a misogynist I would have been out on my ear long ago as she would not stand for that kind of behavior from any man, me included.
There are those women that I don't particularly care for, The Ann Coulter, Bey Buchanan types of the world but I do not look at them in a typically male misogynist manner, I openly dislike them for there right wingnut con artist politics and the way they make $$$$$$$$ from it, not because they are women. ( woman_ may be questionable in Ann Coulters case though. ) This is not misogynist behavior but a matter of personal conviction, please don't label me as a misogynist simply because of our recent arguments over the 'Boomer' / 'Chickiedeb' business. Don't you think it would be better for us both if we started off again by not calling each other names?
I have apologized to you for my behavior towards you and I thank you for that, but obviously your acceptance was not sincere given your following statement.
"This man, Lou, had better >staighten<Sp ( straighten ) up his act, or I will formally place a complaint against him with the owners of the board."
Well, by all means 'Boomer Chick', If that is what you want to do, feel free, knock yourself out, I have never been banned from any site or forum, ever, unlike your friend 'Reynolds' has. It might be a good experience for me if you think you can get it done, so,... you go girl !
What's this?
"He can rant all he wants about how good this DBS board was when I wasn't here, but I have devoted many hours and much energy to this board down here and because I take a break and post above doesn't mean anything but that. No big drama or reasons need be given for my decisions in my private decision-making life. It was boring down here."
Excuse me_what I was referring to by you not being here was exactly that, you where not posting here and your absents had nothing whatsoever to do with my comments on the board improving when I and a few others started posting here, my posting at least had absolutely nothing to do with you then, so why are you under the impression that it was some "Big Drama" as you put it about "you"?
You are absolutely correct, It was boring in this section. Well, that sure has changed now, hasn't it, gee, when and why did that happen, wasn't it during your long absents?
I'm willing to try and make amends for my rotten behavior towards you if your willing to give me that chance, if not, we can just stay clear of each other unless you want to name call and argue all of the time, I'll leave that decision up to you.
Lou was the first one to present to me the facts which can determine when contrails can and cannot forrm. And it is proven. Therefore no one can say chemtrails/aerosols/ "THE UNKNOWN" are NORMAL contrails when physics says otherwise.
boomerang..you have done your share of sprading out some shit. Do not play miss innocent. If ya cant take the heat, get otta the kitchen,
kola:cool:
Hey Kola_Chill down buddy, don't be getting thrown off the board on my account, I screwed up BIG TIME accusing BC of being a mole for 'Reynolds' and that's on me, for me to own up to like a man should do when he has been acting like an A-Hole. I'm not too proud to admit it when I'm wrong.
You may not like BC but please don't attack her just because I was a DOPE, I'm sure that you have your reasons to get on her but I should not be one of them, Ok buddy?
Your an honest poster and post with your feelings, I'd like to see you stay around this place. If everyone bugs out, then who in the HELL will I have to talk to who isn't a freaking DEBUNKER or a FENCE SITTER? :D
Welcome back Kola.
Oh yeah, Tiff says that she likes your little wiggling SMILLIEASS.
halva
06-03-2007, 10:55 PM
I reiterate my position that we should ALL be disciplined enough to IGNORE Jay Reynolds, Snell, the German debunker and ALL OTHER debunkers until such times as they retract the LIE that they KNOW "chemtrails' are a HOAX!!! If Ms. Brendt's story is not enough to convince Dewey of the necessity of this, I don't know what could be. We don't have to be able to prove anything at all in order to be able to agree on such a policy.
By the way, although I myself have opted not to get involved in the contrails/chemtrails debate, I appreciate Lou's efforts to prove that chemtrails are not contrails. His will to find proof and his belief that he has found it are in every way more admirable than your brand of "scepticism".
Yes, like you I say that I "cannot prove" what Lou claims to have proved, but this concession on my part is part of a strategy aimed at combating debunkers, not accommodating to their lies.
Wayne_ thanks for the words of support, that means something to me.
We each seem to have our own paths to follow but with the same end in mind. My path with regard to Chemtrails seems to be that of offering up more than forum opinion that Chemtrail Spraying is real.
It really Irks me when, what I call the "Fence Sitters" that have been yacking about not being able to really tell whether or not there is any such thing as Chemtrails even though they have been studying the subject for years, they still insist on believing that it's only commercial aircraft that are involved with the spraying and ignore the more believable, plausible fact that it is the military that is responsible for the spraying.
What is it about some people who can't or won't get it through their thick, narrow minded heads that these Spray aircraft are not tracked on the usual tracking programs, that there transponder signals are tracked by the FAA but there frequencies are filtered out of any public tracking program like Flight Explorer or Flightaware. Why do the "Fence Sitters" join with the DEBUNKERS in insisting that all we are seeing is normal air traffic, why are they so oblivious to the fact that the spray aircraft are not tracked?
These same "Fence Sitters" insist on ignoring the (NWS) Upper Air Sounding Data that is taken twice daily which shows quite accurately the temperature and humidity values at all flight altitudes over the United States and most of Canada. They also conveniently ignore the daily, 24/7 (ADDS) Aviation Weather Data that produces and supply's Upper Air Ice Saturation advisories and warnings to all general, commercial and military aviation flying over the United States and Canada.
The tracking programs available to the public are absolutely valuable tools in determining tracked commercial aircraft from untracked military type aircraft that do the spraying. The daily (NWS) upper Air Sounding Data is very valuable as it gives the researcher the temperatures and humidity values at altitude which are generally very accurate despite claims by debunkers that they are not accurate, there is a margin of error but the National Weather Service states that the Upper Air Sounding Data is one of the main data sources that they depend on in creating there National weather models, so, if it's good enough for the (NWS) researchers, scientist and meteorologist how is it that the "Fence Sitters" and DEBUNKERS can just ignore or dismiss it's use as they please?
Their denial of these data sources which confirms that the highly abnormal amounts of persistent spreading contrails are in fact not contrails at all is just not logical at all. If these "Fence Sitter" people that say that they have been studying the contrail / Chemtrail issue for the past eight , nine or ten years still refuse to open their eyes to the data available that proves the difference between contrails and Chemtrails, then they are not merly people who are yet undecided as to the authenticity of the spraying but those who join the ranks of the jaded, twisted DEBUNKERS.
I do not want to go on and on here, it's getting way late for me to be up but you get the jest of what I'm saying here, the data sources are available to prove normal contrails from Chemtrails, yet there are those who seem either ignorant to that fact or unwilling by choice to accept it, then of course there are the out and out rabid, fanatic DEBUNKERS like 'Reynolds'.
I just don't buy the long time "Fence Sitters" position, it's just unbelievable that someone could study the issue for years without coming to a conclusion one way or the other.
Good night Wayne, I'm off to bed.
halva
06-04-2007, 05:56 AM
I just don't buy the long time "Fence Sitters" position, it's just unbelievable that someone could study the issue for years without coming to a conclusion one way or the other.
It's just the case that some people like to have the position of referee or mistress of ceremonies, or "mediator" as Dewey calls it, and think that if you sit on the fence and play the role of the "concerned neutral", both warring parties will come flocking to you and beg you to be their adjudicator. These are the reflexes of a schoolmistress and are indicative of an unbelievable and unacceptable lack of self-awareness.
halva
06-04-2007, 06:04 AM
An Interview with Dr. McKay
Victoria Hardy
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=27333
Victoria Hardy (blog) is the drummer for the pop duo 3 Feet Up. She lives in North Carolina with her husband, who is also the other half of the duo and they have just released their second CD, entitled i will fear no evil. 3 Feet Up was featured in the Living Room Live Series on the CBS Early Show in July of 2006.
May 18, 2007
I’ve been writing a lot about perception these days and how folks can see the same event and walk away with totally different views; it’s a subject I find fascinating. And with that in mind, I turn back to the chemtrail/contrail battle raging even stronger on the Internet. It seems the lines are firmly drawn between the factions. Those who see contrails believe the chemtrail seers are kooks and those who see chemtrails believe the contrail seers are asleep and in denial. Besides the emails I have received concerning illnesses, respiratory issues and nose bleeds, I’ve had others speak of a sense of oddness, a lack of concentration and strange dreams after seeing heavy trails in the sky. I don’t know if they are contrails or chemtrails or if what we call them even matters, what I do know is that my gut spoke with a resounding “That ain’t right,” the first time I saw one. I’m a bit of a simpleton when it comes to the world; I tend to trust my own eyes, logic, experience and instincts over the words of the experts. And the majority of the experts agree that the lines in the sky are simply contrails, just like a majority of experts agree that it is normal for steel buildings to collapse in free fall speed due to fire.
Luckily for us there are those experts who stand up for the truth, who buck the trend and who carve new paths. Dr. McKay and I have been playing email tag for months now, so I ended up receiving his conclusions on the chemtrail phenomenon before I received the answers to an interview I sent him back in February. Although I believe his findings answered most questions in A Doctor Speaks Out About Chemtrails, I would like share some excerpts from the earlier interview.
Q. You stated your interest in chemtrails came from a geo-engineering view and correct me if I'm wrong, but geo-engineering breaks down to mean earth engineering, so the chemtrails are being used to alter the earth?
A. Yes, the earth as a whole. It is the atmosphere that is being altered by various means of modification.
Q. Would that include earthquakes?
A. No. There is no link to earthquakes from chemtrails, however HAARP is a suspect.
Q. Would it also include melting the Polar Regions?
A. Yes. The simple fact that they are releasing these chemicals and using other means to steer the weather systems is enough to alter the natural stability of the Polar Regions.
Q. Is it as meteorologist Scott Stevens at WeatherWars.info has stated, that now that is has started, it cannot be stopped?
A. Yes, unfortunately it is a case of a small domino effect, or in this case it is more like the butterfly effect. i.e. if a butterfly flaps its wings in one country it may cause a gale in another country.
Q. I understand that HAARP and radio frequency work together with the chemtrails, and I understand that the use of metals in the air increases our communication and surveillance abilities, but could you address the affect on our state of being, our moods and our health?
A. The major concerns for our health are not just the effects of the trails (heavy metals) but also the effects of radio frequency, the frequency that the likes of HAARP use are very close to the bodies’ natural frequencies so they are bound to affect our health. Both Alzheimer’s and MS have links with heavy metals so if the increase in heavy metals continues then the rates of these conditions will also increase over time.
Q. I have read that the Schumann's Resonance, or the natural frequency or heartbeat of the earth has altered in recent years and that the magnetic field is at it lowest point in 2000 years, are these changes a natural evolution or a result of "chemtrails"? And any ideas of how this affects the planet and its people?
A. Yes, it has altered but it is probably the result of all the electric fields that we humans have introduced to the earth, Power lines, and it is increasing, NOT lowering. It alters the waves the body responds to for example: Gamma, Beta, Alpha, Theta and Delta waves. The brain responds to inputs at a certain frequency or frequencies. Instabilities in certain rhythms can be correlated with tics, obsessive-compulsive disorder, aggressive behavior, rage, panic attacks, bipolar disorder, migraines, narcolepsy, epilepsy, sleep apnea, vertigo, tinnitus, anorexia/bulimia, suicidal ideation and behavior, PMS, multiple chemical sensitivities, diabetes, hypoglycemia and explosive behavior.
The strongest of the seven resonances is 7.83 Hz, in the alpha brain-wave range. If the rise in resonance continues, this primary resonance, changes from sub-band low alpha (7-10 Hz) to sub-band high alpha (10-12 Hz), perhaps influencing our ability to relax deeply, balance and integrate our mind/body connection. It could influence REM sleep and dreaming. If it continues to rise, it will breach the threshold into beta activity. Low beta (12-15 Hz) is associated with lack of focused attention, and can even indicate attention deficit disorder.
Q. I have heard that HAARP is literally extending or "pushing out" our ionosphere, how would that affect the magnetic field?
A. HAARP is very worrying as it is directly heating the sphere and pushing it outwards.
The sphere is linked to the earth’s own magnetic field and affecting it would be very bad for the earth as it would alter most living things. For example there are recent reports from around the world of Birds, Bees and marine animals suddenly dying in large numbers, all of these creatures use the earths magnetic fields and it is no surprise that an increase in HAARP activity has coincided with an increase in abnormal behavior
Q. How are chemtrails affecting the global warming issue?
A. Chemtrails are being used to wrap the earth in a blanket to supposedly help the earth with global warming and to block the rays of the sun from hitting the earth including the ultra violet radiation that will come through without an adequate layer of ozone in the upper regions above the earth. This, it is hoped, will lower temperature on the surface of the earth and block ultra violet radiation from causing skin cancer in humans, however there is now evidence that it may actually harm the planet in the respect that it traps the heat in.
Q. And what about the orbs that are being seen in and along chemtrails, I had only seen pictures and read stories of such orbs until 1-27-07, when I saw one myself. Are they using some type of top-secret propulsion system?
A. I have come to the conclusion that orbs are a very hi-tech probe, powered by a new form of propulsion, there is strong evidence for this, for example they are always seen around spraying, there are examples of new technology unveiled recently that are round probes that can stay aloft for hours and hours.
Q. Could all the recent sightings of strange lights in the skies and UFOs have something to do with top-secret propulsion systems and chemtrails?
A. It is possible that it is tied in, as one of the goals of the DOD is to create projections into the sky, also there is a possibility that they are side effects of atmosphere testing of new radar technology.
Q. To the best of my knowledge, from the videos and photos I've seen and all the websites dedicated to the subject, this appears to be happening on a global basis, how has it stayed so quiet?
A. Well, the problem is that it is such a big project, involving so many countries and many states, and there is a lot at stake so people tend to keep quiet.
Q. And the thought that keeps me up at night, why isn't everyone on the street pointing up and asking questions?
A. Unfortunately, history shows us that the general population tends not to notice something until its too late, even when people are shown it, they will often still deny it, as it is better to deny it than accept the true horror of the truth.
Dr. McKay can be reached at this email address:
steve.mckay2@ntlworld.com
jayreynolds
06-04-2007, 07:03 AM
I'll tell you what happened, and relate some of what was said to the best of my recollection. I believe it was in 2002 or 2003 when I received a call from Reynolds.
The above claim by Lou posing as Brendt is a lie.
The date of my original call has been archived on my website:
"During a telephone call with Tiffany Brendt on April 29th, 2001, Brendt told me the alleged illness predated her sightings of March 12th."
and
"During a telephone call with Tiffany Brendt on April 29th, 2001, she admitted to me that she had never seen an aeronautical chart of her area."
http://www.goodsky.homestead.com/files/brendt1.html
The identical version is archived at archive.org exactly as it appeared on another of my websites on June 7, 2001
http://web.archive.org/web/20010622214847/worldzone.net/science/reality2u30/brendt1.html
Since the archived reference to the exact date of my telephone call to Brendt(April 29, 2001) predates the above claim that I called "sometime in 2002 or 2003", I could not have possibly posted her comments a year or two earlier!
it is proven that Lou Aubuchont os a poser who cares not for the truth, and is willing to go to any lengths to try and deceive others. He is, however, not a very good liar, and continually flubs up stumbles, and gets caught out.
As usual:
BUSTED!!!
jayreynolds
06-04-2007, 07:10 AM
Q. How are chemtrails affecting the global warming issue?
A. Chemtrails are being used to wrap the earth in a blanket to supposedly help the earth with global warming and to block the rays of the sun from hitting the earth including the ultra violet radiation that will come through without an adequate layer of ozone in the upper regions above the earth. This, it is hoped, will lower temperature on the surface of the earth and block ultra violet radiation from causing skin cancer in humans, however there is now evidence that it may actually harm the planet in the respect that it traps the heat in.
l]
False.
Earth's atmosphere has become clearer since 1999, aerosol levels are down, global dimming has ceased, and solar radiation is presently being reflected less than it has since 1999.
proof:
http://debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=35721
halva
06-04-2007, 09:38 AM
There is no need for you to play your proxy role any more BC. Raynolds is refreshed and back for another round.
He will convince you, Dewey. Get used to the idea now, or put him on ignore now. Or talk to me about him.
dewey189
06-04-2007, 09:51 AM
He will convince you, Dewey. Get used to the idea now, or put him on ignore now. Or talk to me about him.I'm not a little bimbo hanging around Greek cafes, I don't put people on ignore and I'm not willing to listen to someone who doesn't want any opinions aired other than his own. See ya.
yes..an obvious shift change...fuckin assholes.
halva
06-04-2007, 10:22 AM
Dewey doesn't like talking to me. See if you can get further with her. Everyone should. CDsNuTZ should. Lou should. Standing up to Reynolds requires more than the average conservative matron has going for her.
Boomer Chick
06-04-2007, 10:30 AM
Well 'Boomer Chick', thanks for all of that - I certainly deserve it considering the hard time I have been giving you, again. I apologize for that.
I did not present the information very well to begin with, so, Let me see if I can clear up some of your questions with regard to the call that 'S.T. Brendt' (Not I ) received from someone (A woman) back in mid spring of 2003 who claimed that they were known as "Boomer," and also sometimes known as "Chickiedeb."
'S.T. Brendt' had received numerous calls after the story she and 'Will Thomas' broke in March of 2001. She changed her phone number to a private number, and then started receiving unsolicited, unwanted calls from 'Reynolds'. She changed her number yet AGAIN in order to stop receiving calls from those kinds of "NUTBALLS".
We have just been discussing all of this and I may have not had all of the facts correct as it was 'S.T. Brendt' that answered the 'Boomer' / 'Chickiedeb' call, plus it was all of four years ago, so, In her own words, I'll let her finish her thoughts on this below.
________________________
Hello Boomer Chick. I am S.T. Brendt. "ST" ...................................
Thanks to all who take the time to look up, and question.
The REAL S.T. Tiffany Brendt
Thanks for sharing, S.T. Tiffany Brendt and thanks Lou for discussing the subject with Tiff.
I liked Will Thomas very much. Too bad I didn't even know about chemtrails or Will Thomas back in 2001. Lou drug me into this and since chickiedeb didn't even go by the name of "Boomer Chick," which was my chosen and created board name since Sept. 2003: I think you can both put two and two together with those simple facts and realize I was entirely out of the loop ...........end of story. Remember, I didn't meet Jay Reynolds until 2005. I am not friends with Mr. Reynolds, but I am not his enemy nor do I out and out dislike him. You may have good reason for your feelings, but I do not share them. That's OK. People change through time, people learn and grow and people experience other people in different ways. I was never harrassed. 2001 was SIX years ago! That's a long time. Reasoning with Mr. Reynolds is not difficult to do. I see a stubborn righteousness on his part at times which can be indentified in many on the "chemtrail" side, TOO, but I also see an ability to reason and think and be reasonable as well.
The chemtrail/contrail debate doesn't have to be "either or" as I said. I am on no-one's "side"...only the side of facts and truth. I see what you see and I know something has changed and I'm open to information from both so-called sides and I find that staying open helps me to view a wider and more encompassing area.
I do not agree that asking questions of another poster is a form of harrassment. I never intended to harrass anyone here (other than halva who I've known as a poster for years). I am sincere in my question-asking. The simple asking of questions often reveals how a poster uses his or her mind and how he/she views the topic. This helps me get to know what they think and how they operate. It's common sense to me and I also like to think outloud that way as a form of sharing. But to have my questions interpreted as a form of harrassment is just not appropriate relating. I don't understand the mindset that feels that answering questions from a yet unknown personality sitting at a computer in another state is somehow "demeaning" or "demoralizing" as Halva relates.
Of course I could understand if someone just doesn't want to take the time or has no time or states he/she does not want to partake in answering....fine. Obviously Lou began his search for dirt after wrongly assuming I was attempting to "debunk" him which probably relied on the lies that halva told him regarding my refusal to hate ANYONE !!! I do not hate people and I try to understand them.............................it's as simple as that.
Thanks for sharing the story, Tiffany, and I hope Mr. Reynolds and both of you will converse on the phone in order to exchange sentiments and agree to go on with a higher degree of understanding. It seems at this point, JR isn't seeing truth in the dates involved. I"m out of it....so please let me stay out of it, OK? I never was involved and do not want to be dragged into it so I'm hoping you 3 will work this out and get on with the issues at hand.
So, again, thanks, and I hope this is it for me regarding the JR/Lou/Brendt saga.
Lou, #1 at this point? Chickiedeb never said her name was "boomerchick" over the phone to Tiff. Had you got that straight in the beginning you wouldn't have been tempted to connect lines to non-existant dots. #2 Had you read and comprehended what I shared about my internet history, you would have easily been able to verify it and thus rule me out totally in this YEARS AGO situation. OK, fine, you claim not to be a misogynist....good...we don't need any more of them. But BTW, a misogynist does not have to beat women to be one. There are many ways of expressing it, like not respecting them on boards and not reading what they write and taking the word of other males rather than taking the word of the female in question. Take an honest look at that.
I have to go now.
BC
Boomerass..you are up and down like a fuckin yo-yo...one post nice,,,, the next one nasty.
Menopausal? or have you always been this way?
Kola ..i'm otta here
Boomer Chick
Senior Member
"So, again, thanks, and I hope this is it for me regarding the JR/Lou/Brendt saga."
""Lou, #1 at this point? Chickiedeb never said her name was "boomerchick" over the phone to Tiff. Had you got that straight in the beginning you wouldn't have been tempted to connect lines to non-existant dots. #2 Had you read and comprehended what I shared about my internet history, you would have easily been able to verify it and thus rule me out totally in this YEARS AGO situation. OK, fine, you claim not to be a misogynist....good...we don't need any more of them. But BTW, a misogynist does not have to beat women to be one. There are many ways of expressing it, like not respecting them on boards and not reading what they write and taking the word of other males rather than taking the word of the female in question. Take an honest look at that.""
_______________________________
That's good 'Boomer Chick' that you are out of this, I regret bringing the whole sorry mess up in the first place.
Yes, 'Tiff' made me aware that in our conversation recently that this "Chickiedeb" person who called never said she was "Boomer Chick" but just 'Boomer', that was an error of assumption on my part because I was not here the day this person called and got the information second hand, I'm sorry that I assumed that she had said "Boomer Chick", I should have known better than assume anything other than the call being from another NUTBALL or DEBUNKER like 'Reynolds'.
Point is, I have ruled you out as having anything to do with this unsolicited, unwanted call and as I said in a prior post, you will not get any more grief from me about it at all.
I'm very much aware of what constitutes a misogynist and I would never even consider treating a woman as anything but an equal, same can be said of race, a persons race does not mean that they are any more or less than I am, we live on a very small planet and I believe that there is no room for that kind of thinking, period. We are all in this together, the more people realize that the better off we will all be.
Peace,... 'Boomer Chick'
Boomer Chick
06-04-2007, 07:39 PM
Boomer Chick
Senior Member
"So, again, thanks, and I hope this is it for me regarding the JR/Lou/Brendt saga."
""Lou, #1 at this point? Chickiedeb never said her name was "boomerchick" over the phone to Tiff. Had you got that straight in the beginning you wouldn't have been tempted to connect lines to non-existant dots. #2 Had you read and comprehended what I shared about my internet history, you would have easily been able to verify it and thus rule me out totally in this YEARS AGO situation. OK, fine, you claim not to be a misogynist....good...we don't need any more of them. But BTW, a misogynist does not have to beat women to be one. There are many ways of expressing it, like not respecting them on boards and not reading what they write and taking the word of other males rather than taking the word of the female in question. Take an honest look at that.""
_______________________________
That's good 'Boomer Chick' that you are out of this, I regret bringing the whole sorry mess up in the first place.
Yes, 'Tiff' made me aware that in our conversation recently that this "Chickiedeb" person who called never said she was "Boomer Chick" but just 'Boomer', that was an error of assumption on my part because I was not here the day this person called and got the information second hand, I'm sorry that I assumed that she had said "Boomer Chick", I should have known better than assume anything other than the call being from another NUTBALL or DEBUNKER like 'Reynolds'.
Point is, I have ruled you out as having anything to do with this unsolicited, unwanted call and as I said in a prior post, you will not get any more grief from me about it at all.
I'm very much aware of what constitutes a misogynist and I would never even consider treating a woman as anything but an equal, same can be said of race, a persons race does not mean that they are any more or less than I am, we live on a very small planet and I believe that there is no room for that kind of thinking, period. We are all in this together, the more people realize that the better off we will all be.
Peace,... 'Boomer Chick'
Peace, Lou. :)
halva
06-04-2007, 08:25 PM
Boomerass..you are up and down like a fuckin yo-yo...one post nice,,,, the next one nasty.
Menopausal? or have you always been this way?
Kola ..i'm otta here
You shouldn't go running off at this point, Kola, just because Lou disarmed himself by using an ineffective weapon against BC, who has already helped bring the debunkers back into these discussions and is now seeking for new ground to conquer in her acknowledged "harassment" of me and promotion of Jay Reynolds. She admires Reynolds for his rationality and intelligence, never allowing herself to think too much about the purpose for which he is using it.. BC has also shown that input from other people describing their very bad experiences cannot be processed by her in an adult way.. Like a young child, she can only respond emotionally to what she herself has suffered and gone through.
Kola we now must monitor what is now going to occur - probably - as Reynolds seeks to seduce Dewey.
You shouldn't go running off at this point, Kola, just because Lou disarmed himself by using an ineffective weapon against BC, who has already helped bring the debunkers back into these discussions and is now seeking for new ground to conquer in her acknowledged "harassment" of me and promotion of Jay Reynolds. She admires Reynolds for his rationality and intelligence, never allowing herself to think too much about the purpose for which he is using it.. BC has also shown that input from other people describing their very bad experiences cannot be processed by her in an adult way.. Like a young child, she can only respond emotionally to what she herself has suffered and gone through.
Kola we now must monitor what is now going to occur - probably - as Reynolds seeks to seduce Dewey.
Hey Wayne_I think we can figure out what's going on between BC and the Regulator Reynolds on our own without you speaking for us_ but thanks anyway, I know you mean well.
It's pretty obvious from BC's re-post of DICK HEADS post that BC is willing to prostitute herself for him by being his mule.
For a so called English Lit teacher she doesn't seem very bright when it comes to A-Holes like the Onion Farmer using her, maybe she likes it. :eek: :rolleyes:
halva
06-04-2007, 10:13 PM
Lou we have cleaned the debunkers out of the corresponding open chemtrails discussion board in Greece. Why is it that you Americans can't do the same thing?
halva
06-04-2007, 10:41 PM
Perhaps this is a question that Jeff Reynolds/Socrates should be asking himself also, wherever he is hanging out now.
halva
06-05-2007, 12:19 AM
Now that we are back to square one again, a suitable topic for discussion in the coming period would perhaps be the rights and wrongs of my having invited Boomer Chick to this forum.
What is the balance sheet, in relation to the previous situation with the debunkers, positive or negative? Did I make a mistake when I invited BC here?
If Footsoldier can take a little break from her aircraft emissions postings, I would appreciate her contributions also on this subject, because she is undoubtedly targeted as a key ally in Boomer Chick's campaign to make these threads safe for scientific objectivity, and for Jay Reynolds.
halva
06-05-2007, 02:52 AM
It would be preferable to do what I propose here rather than hurling abuse at BC and Reynolds, "Socrates"/JR2 style.
Raynolds should be ignored and Boomer Chick discussed.
halva
06-06-2007, 10:53 PM
Between September 5-7, 2007, Rosalind Peterson has been invited to address the Sixtieth Annual Conference of Non-Governmental Organizations associated with the United Nations Department of Public Information (DPI). The Conference, entitled "Climate change: How It
Impacts Us All", is being held at the United Nations Headquarters in New York. The DPI/NGO Conference is the main NGO event of the year at the United Nations, attracting 2,500 NGO representatives from some 90 countries. This historic Conference will focus on the growing
concern associated with climate change and its profound and decisive impact on human well-being.
Rosalind will be speaking on climate change associated with persistent jet contrails and the man-made clouds they produce, how jet contrails exacerbate global warming and change our climate. She will address atmospheric heating and testing programs and experimental weather modification and how they impact agriculture and climate.
Rosalind will also address global dimming produced by persistent jet contrails and how a reduction in sunlight reduces photosynthesis thereby lowering crop production and plant health. In addition, geoengineering issues will be raised and their implication when used
on our oceans and agriculture. Solutions to these problems, human health impacts on water, soil, and agriculture will also be addressed during question and answer sessions with attendees.
halva
06-06-2007, 11:11 PM
This looks like a significant development. Of course, Rosalind's participation in this UN-sponsored NGO meeting appears to be contingent on a certain amount of Footsoldier-type "fudging" on airline emissions as opposed to deliberate chemtrailing. Nevertheless, if those are the rules of the game, bravo for her intelligence, her persistence and her political realism. Let's hope she makes best use of the opportunity she is being given, as OUR REPRESENTATIVE. At least that's the way I see her, though we have not voted for her.
Given that Jeff Reynolds does not yet feel discouraged about posting here, any intelligent comment from him, if he is capable of such a thing, would not be unwelcome, at least to me.
halva
06-06-2007, 11:16 PM
SHELDON DAY wrote:
>
>> *I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND you go listen to these past shows of
>> AmeriKan Expose with Chris Gerner(now Retired from Talk-Radio)..In
>> the 15 years I've been listening to Talk-Radio shows, I personally
>> believe that Chris Gerner had the 2ND BEST show available...He was
>> on-the-air for 10 years EXPOSING AGENDA-21/THe UN system and Weather
>> Modification as well...Most folks haven't the slightest clue that
>> we've been living under Agenda-21 for like 15 YEARS NOW !!!!!!
>> Agenda-21 is simply the United Nations Agenda for EVERYBODY ON THE
>> PLANET IN THE 21ST CENTURY, which is either ENSLAVEMENT,IMPRISONMENT
>> OR DEATH.... I will be EXPOSING AGENDA-21 more often during my
>> upcoming broadcasts....
>> *http://thelightofdayradioshow.com/archives/archivesmisc.html
>>
>> *I continue to learn WEBMASTERING !!! It's actually quite fun
folks....*
>> **
>> *Please tune-into THE LIGHT OF DAY Wednesday night to hear my
>> Featured Guest-Rosalind Peterson, who will be discussing
>> Contrail(CHEMTRAIL)Spraying operations, Weather modification,
>> Environmental contamination issues,etc... Her Website can be clicked
>> off my homepage: http://thelightofdayradioshowcom/
>> <http://thelightofdayradioshow.com/>*
>> **
>> *Wednesday night's show will be my 41st Broadcast( 15th on The Edge
>> Network ).....*
>>
halva
06-07-2007, 01:44 AM
This looks like a significant development. Of course, Rosalind's participation in this UN-sponsored NGO meeting appears to be contingent on a certain amount of Footsoldier-type "fudging" on airline emissions as opposed to deliberate chemtrailing. Nevertheless, if those are the rules of the game, bravo for her intelligence, her persistence and her political realism. Let's hope she makes best use of the opportunity she is being given, as OUR REPRESENTATIVE. At least that's the way I see her, though we have not voted for her.
Given that Jeff Reynolds does not yet feel discouraged about posting here, any intelligent comment from him, if he is capable of such a thing, would not be unwelcome, at least to me.
One thing that we should make a basic part of our intervention is that the advocates of geoengineering programmes be required to take part, and defend their proposals, in these meetings of NGOs, and not just talk to each other and to the prostitute media.
halva
06-09-2007, 02:52 AM
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – June 8, 2007
Contact: Mel Reslor: pdxdirt@intergate.com
David Morrison: 503 295 6882 morrison@morrisonbooks.com
Dr. Bob Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies and 9/11 Truth Candidate for Congress-- speaking in Portland. The Los Angeles Times calls Bowman, “The Best Public Speaker in the Country.”
Date/Time: Thursday, June 21st 7:00 pm
Location: Liberty Hall, 311 No. Ivy (Just South of Fremont and West of M.L.K.)
Tickets: 5.00 door
Dr. Robert Bowman, Founder of “The Patriots” will be speaking in Portland Thursday, June 21st at Liberty Hall in North Portland @ 7pm. “The Patriots” is a group devoted to government which follows the Constitution, honors truth and serves the People. Dr. Bowman’s Portland visit will be part of a country wide tour of at least a hundred stops throughout the United States. As a recent candidate for the 15th congressional seat in Florida, Bowman called for a new and independent 9/11 investigation as part of his platform. His extensive background in the military and government gives him a foundation of knowledge that has led him to repudiate the Official 9/11 report as a whitewash. Bowman is Lt. Col., USAF, ret., President of the Institute for Space and Security Studies, retired Presiding Archbishop of the United Catholic Church. The recipient of the Eisenhower Medal, the George F. Kennan Peace Prize, the President’s Medal of Veterans for Peace, the Republic Aviation Airpower Award, the Society of American Military Engineers’ ROTC Medal of Merit (twice), the Air Medal with five oak leaf clusters, the Meritorious Service Medal, and numerous other awards. Dr. Bowman is one of the country’s foremost authorities on national security. Dr. Bowman has been an outspoken critic of the Occupation of Iraq.
Colonel Bowmen flew 101 combat missions in Vietnam and directed all the DoD “Star Wars” programs under presidents Ford and Carter. He has been an executive in both government and industry, and has chaired 8 major international conferences. Professor Bowman taught at 5 colleges and universities, serving as Dept. Head and Assistant Dean. His Ph.D. is in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering from Caltech. He has lectured at the National War College, the United Nations, Congressional Caucuses, the Academies of Science of 6 nations, and the House of Lords.
Dr. Bowman’s nationwide tour will include his wife Maggie and will be conducted by the non-profit Institute for Space and Security Studies (ISSS), a 501c(3) organization.
halva
06-09-2007, 03:40 AM
This article appeared yesterday 8th June in the local newspaper of Aigina "Nea Ephochi":
Aigina: First Capital of Today's Greece
First Capital of Tomorrow's Europe
by Marilena Giannouli
Under this title Aigina has embarked on a journey on the Internet.
At the initiative of Wayne Hall a DVD has been produced which presents our island and its significance from antiquity to the present. Local people speak both of the island's historical trajectory and the importance of the Capodistria Network, not to mention the the decision that was taken in 2003 by the Aigina Council in relation to the aerial spraying. Emphasis is indeed given to the relevant publicity by our newspaper!
The stimulus for the making of this film was the function on 18th March on the twin towers in New York, which induced Sofia, creator of the film that was screened that day to send a message, via Internet, to the people of Aigina.
For those "in the know" Aigina appears to be regarded internationally as a pacesetter, given that our municipality is the only place in the world to have taken a decision condemning the health-endangering spraying that is so light-heartedly being conducted (?) to deal with the phenomenon of global warming. Recently the Synaspismos parliamentarian Mr. Fotis Kouvelis submited a related question in parliament, only to receive from all the responsible ministries an answer stating their ignorance and/or lack of relevant authority.
Whoever wishes may view the film in question at the Aigina library, purchase it or find it on the internet.
jayreynolds
06-09-2007, 05:33 AM
This article appeared yesterday 8th June in the local newspaper of Aigina "Nea Ephochi":
Aigina: First Capital of Today's Greece
First Capital of Tomorrow's Europe
by Marilena Giannouli
Under this title Aigina has embarked on a journey on the Internet.
At the initiative of Wayne Hall a DVD has been produced which presents our island and its significance from antiquity to the present. Local people speak both of the island's historical trajectory and the importance of the Capodistria Network, not to mention the the decision that was taken in 2003 by the Aigina Council in relation to the aerial spraying. Emphasis is indeed given to the relevant publicity by our newspaper!
The stimulus for the making of this film was the function on 18th March on the twin towers in New York, which induced Sofia, creator of the film that was screened that day to send a message, via Internet, to the people of Aigina.
For those "in the know" Aigina appears to be regarded internationally as a pacesetter, given that our municipality is the only place in the world to have taken a decision condemning the health-endangering spraying that is so light-heartedly being conducted (?) to deal with the phenomenon of global warming. Recently the Synaspismos parliamentarian Mr. Fotis Kouvelis submited a related question in parliament, only to receive from all the responsible ministries an answer stating their ignorance and/or lack of relevant authority.
Whoever wishes may view the film in question at the Aigina library, purchase it or find it on the internet.
Wayne, this is a parody, isn't it?
First of all, Aegina(pop. 12,000) is unlikely to ever become capitil of Europe, it's just a vacation-home destination for affluent Athenians and a pistachio plantation. Secondly, why lie about Espanola, Ontario? Someone there many years ago griped to the parliament about "chemtrails", with the same disappointing results.
It's as if you want to discourage people when you publish such braggadocious bravado full of lies.
halva
06-09-2007, 06:11 AM
Are you giving me some friendly advice, Reynolds, so that we can be more effective?
Why don't you ring up Marilena Giannouli and tell her to stop being taken in by a hoaxer?
jayreynolds
06-09-2007, 06:58 AM
Are you giving me some friendly advice, Reynolds, so that we can be more effective?
Why don't you ring up Marilena Giannouli and tell her to stop being taken in by a hoaxer?
Wayne, I predicted your people would get nowhere, and that I needed not raise a finger.
I was correct.
Now post us what you promised and I predicted, your shattered dreams.........
Jeff Reynolds
06-09-2007, 08:13 AM
Wayne, I predicted your people would get nowhere, and that I needed not raise a finger.
I was correct.
Now post us what you promised and I predicted, your shattered dreams.........
You should come clean and admit you are in on some kind of script. No one but other fake id's are ever going to debate with you. There is plenty of proof that you don't play fair. So one could bring tons of stuff up, and you'd just ignore it or write something stupid in big red letters.
Paul Moyer of KNBC, Los Angeles, has done two stories on "chemical trails." What people want to know is why did you go to that obscure website to hound a "Josh Peter?" They also want to know why you claimed HR2977 was a classic bait and switch intending to demoralize chemtrail believers. Also, people are curious why you are ignoring your youtube video showing proof that military have been tinkering with creating fake cloud cover since the 1940's. What part of 10,000-25,000 feet don't you understand?
You see, creep, you and all of them have been exposed. I have proof that "Lou" was J. Vitum. Likewise, it is easy to see that J. Vitum was "Tracker." It is also easy to see how you have been involved in this stupid script. No one real would go to some obscure website writing about dogwoods blooming. No one real would ignore proof of chemtrails, which you did on the other thread about your youtube video. Persistent contrails cannot form at 10,000-25,000 feet. Even if you say you aren't Epoxynous, the sock puppet has come up with proof that chemtrails are not contrails.
halva
06-09-2007, 09:52 AM
What can you have in mind, Jeff Reynolds, when you talk about 'playing fair' in matters of politics? You really need to find another forum where the literally mentally retarded are posting.
What response can one make to these postings??
jayreynolds
06-09-2007, 10:38 AM
What can you have in mind, Jeff Reynolds, when you talk about 'playing fair' in matters of politics? You really need to find another forum where the literally mentally retarded are posting.
What response can one make to these postings??
Really, Wayne. It's almost as if his mommy promised him life would always be fair.
jayreynolds
06-09-2007, 11:03 AM
You should come clean and admit you are in on some kind of script. No one but other fake id's are ever going to debate with you.
Not so. You have been doing it for months now.........
Paul Moyer of KNBC, Los Angeles, has done two stories on "chemical trails." What people want to know is why did you go to that obscure website to hound a "Josh Peter?"
As I have already told you, the Josh Peters sock puppet was a creation of Lou's. Faced with false claims by his 'Tracker' persona about having visited Washington, DC and seeing dogwoods in bloom when they had not yet emerged, Lou 'planted' a comment using the name 'Josh Peters', then cited it as proof that what 'Tracker' said was true. I exposed the gambit, but never "hounded" anyone.
They also want to know why you claimed HR2977 was a classic bait and switch intending to demoralize chemtrail believers. Also, people are curious why you are ignoring your youtube video showing proof that military have been tinkering with creating fake cloud cover since the 1940's. What part of 10,000-25,000 feet don't you understand?
I think that the ICIS people put "chemtrails" into the bill for that purpose. No one has ever admitted how it got in there, so the truth has yet to be uncovered. You need to understand, 'Socrates', that some things remain a mystery, even to me.
I only have a low-bandwidth dialup connection and cannot upload or download video. I have never seen a youtube video or have I ever created one. Contrails are man-made clouds, and yes, my own father created them by gasoline engines on his Liberator bomber in the 1940's.
I cannot comment on any undocumented claims about 10,000-25,000 ft as I have seen no measurement data to support it. However, it is possible for contrails to form and persist at any altitude given that the well-known atmospheric conditions are present.
You are wasting your time trying to place an altitude cap on contrails. They can form at ground level in northern climates during winter. They can sometimes be seen during the summertime in the tropics. Until and unless you have accurate real-time atmospheric data at the exact location of the trails, you have no means to determine for certain if a contrail could or could not form or persist.
Your claims that only military jets can make persistent contrails is pathetically naive and shows a complete disregard for the facts of this matter. It is a useless claim and will only bring ridicule upon you and anyone who repeats your disinformation.
I have proof that "Lou" was J. Vitum. Likewise, it is easy to see that J. Vitum was "Tracker.".
Well, BRING IT ON!
Jeff Reynolds
06-09-2007, 12:09 PM
Not so. You have been doing it for months now.........
I wish I knew how to double quote. I hit quote, yet my posts don't get included. But thanks for admitting that I am a real person.
I am not afraid to interact with anyone. Some, I would be crazy to continue interacting with, such as with Kolanut, Halvar, or tinfoil1776. The fact is I would rather not interact or even post near any of the troll linguistic frankensciences. But, if I notice even a gram of sincerity amongst the bullshit, you might get a direct response.
As I have already told you, the Josh Peters sock puppet was a creation of Lou's. Faced with false claims by his 'Tracker' persona about having visited Washington, DC and seeing dogwoods in bloom when they had not yet emerged, Lou 'planted' a comment using the name 'Josh Peters', then cited it as proof that what 'Tracker' said was true. I exposed the gambit, but never "hounded" anyone.
Tell the story please. Not all of it, we know about "Tracker" at CTC. We know that he started that long thread which was an attack on yourself. What I am curious about is that website you posted on. How did you hear about it? Why would "Tracker" put that info on some obscure website that you found? Come on. Spit out the details cousin.
I think that the ICIS people put "chemtrails" into the bill for that purpose. No one has ever admitted how it got in there, so the truth has yet to be uncovered. You need to understand, 'Socrates', that some things remain a mystery, even to me.
It is an interesting story. Did you see the thread on AONN Records? Talk about a mystery. What's up with the gag order or something about how that fucker resolved? Someone hacks into a .gov domain or had access to it. Strange days indeed.
I only have a low-bandwidth dialup connection and cannot upload or download video. I have never seen a youtube video or have I ever created one. Contrails are man-made clouds, and yes, my own father created them by gasoline engines on his Liberator bomber in the 1940's.
I cannot comment on any undocumented claims about 10,000-25,000 ft as I have seen no measurement data to support it. However, it is possible for contrails to form and persist at any altitude given that the well-known atmospheric conditions are present.
Big Cats of East Africa (http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~gsw2c/photo/cats.html)
Jay, let's try to keep this thing interesting. I'm not sure who between you, Halvar, and Lou/ J. Vitum is the most boring to read.
You are wasting your time trying to place an altitude cap on contrails. They can form at ground level in northern climates during winter. They can sometimes be seen during the summertime in the tropics. Until and unless you have accurate real-time atmospheric data at the exact location of the trails, you have no means to determine for certain if a contrail could or could not form or persist.
Your claims that only military jets can make persistent contrails is pathetically naive and shows a complete disregard for the facts of this matter. It is a useless claim and will only bring ridicule upon you and anyone who repeats your disinformation.
I don't believe in any of your "debunking." I am more interested in real "debunkers" like Innocent Bystander from CTC, who conveniently got scrubbed.
Well, BRING IT ON!
I just looked down, and it looks like you already edited this post. Great!
But here is your proof that Lou is J. Vitum.
From "A Voice":
J. Vitum has shared an IP with "Lou" and I will ask him to pick one so I can ban the other...If you feel the need to make this pm public you may do so.
A Voice
Ha, this next one is something Lord Reynolds decided to scrub, yeah Cousin Jay, you wouldn't want to direct readers to this thread (http://debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=58891), where the debunker Epoxynous made a fool out of you and your "side" of the script.
I didn't waste my time proving that Epoxynous had an agenda.
Thanks for admitting that his video had the insidious agenda. Funny how it no longer works. Maybe "they" should just put the video back up. This could make it seem even more obvious that there is a paid astroturfing campaign to make "chemtrails" appear kooky, and that it is being conducted by idiotic low level hacks. :p
halva
06-09-2007, 09:15 PM
Really, Wayne. It's almost as if his mommy promised him life would always be fair.
Have fun interacting with him then.
jeffyboy
and
jayboy
love at last.
NOW ;
GO
FUCK
YOURSELVES!!
rofl,
kola
halva
06-09-2007, 09:35 PM
The moderators are also having some things to say Kola. It is objectively true that they want to help some of us here and hinder others. I am going to have to resort to ignore-listing certain posters. This amounts to abdication, but there it is.
halva
06-10-2007, 12:07 AM
On return from my suspension for a couple of days some time ago at the behest of “Jeff Reynolds” I said that I would henceforth play an “observer” role, leaving to “Jeff Reynolds” the task of “leadership” (or rather attempted co-ordination) of the non-debunkers.
It wasn’t possible to stick with this, as it became immediately obvious that he was not even going to attempt to try to encourage systematic and coherent interventions on our side.
Now he has lodged another complaint, this time saying that I am issuing death threats against him on the strength of this posting:
Remember if you do this with Will Thomas (i.e. tell him that Lou Aubuchont is an agent, spy, misinformer or whatever)you will more conclusively have blown your cover than you have with us here who know you only as Jeff Reynolds or Socrates. Specific accusations against Lou will have to come from an identifiable person, not from a pseudonym. Of course go ahead if you like. Your putting yourself permanently six feet under would not bother me in the slightest.
The moderators here did not accept that this was a death threat, but suggested that I should have used different wording. They did however then embark on a search for other incriminating posts and came up with:
The main thing that has to be done here is to *stop discussion
degenerating under the influence of debunkers, tolerators of debunkers, or
madmen like Jeff.*
---End Quote---
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=806809&postcount=22
---Quote---
I was (and am) wondering if you would like to* help Kola, Lou and me
find a solution to the problem that is being caused at the moment by BC.*
With the potential to cause worse problems in future if we don't stop
it NOW.
You are interested in *preserving some kind of standards here,* it
seems, since you think that weatherman is not doing what he should.
---End Quote---
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=810071&postcount=8361
---Quote---
Now that we are back to square one again,* a suitable topic for
discussion in the coming period would perhaps be the rights and wrongs of my
having invited Boomer Chick to this forum.
*
What is the balance sheet, in relation to the previous situation with
the debunkers, positive or negative? Did I make a mistake when I invited
BC here?
If Footsoldier can take a little break from her aircraft emissions
postings, I would appreciate her contributions also on this subject,
because she is undoubtedly targeted as a key ally in Boomer Chick's campaign
to make these threads safe for scientific objectivity, and for Jay
Reynolds.
The unacceptable element in these postings is apparently that I am attempting to “gang up” on other posters, acting as if DBS is “my private kingdom”.
In other words, my attempt to re-establish a coherent environment for discussion, following the return of Jay Reynolds, by openly discussing what other posters are doing and appear to be trying to do, by evaluating the contributions of others, is to be called “ganging up”, while the corresponding behaviour of debunkers is NOT to be so described.
It’s official -- “politics” is allowed for one side. “Scientific objectivity” is imposed on the other.
“Freedom of speech” means saying your own thing, and minding your own business in relation to others on your side. Unless you happen to be a debunker.
Since these are the rules, I will apply the “ignore listing”: to Jay Reynolds, Jeff Reynolds and Ed Snell.
This will mean that I can no longer attempt to “co-ordinate”, but since I am not being allowed to (or even try to) anyway, hopefully by ignore-listing I will at least, like Lou, spare my nerves the experience of having to read postings from a gang that I am not allowed to "gang up" to oppose. If this is the way things are to be, one might as well spend one's time watching television.
I will just say one thing to Jay Reynolds. On the one hand it is irrelevant to say that I see you as a “worthy opponent”, because I don’t accept you as a discussion partner. I seek to exclude you from discussion in every way that is within my power.
On the other hand I have abided by the rules of the “open forum” here, with “freedom of speech” for all parties including those I would exclude if I could, but cannot.
To accept further interaction on the rules being laid out now by the moderators (and let's have them in writing please: "Thou shalt not gang up") is to accept participation in a rigged game. If that is not beneath your dignity, then…… I guess it is not beneath your dignity.
Enjoy yourself with Jeff Reynolds. He is neither a worthy opponent for you nor a worthy partner OR opponent for me.
From this point onwards I will be reading of your postings only what others quote. But now I have embarked again on the ignore-listing approach: the individual cop-out that is permitted here – there is of course no limit to it.
halva
06-10-2007, 12:44 AM
Why does Jay Reynolds no longer refer to Chem 11 as "his buddy".
I won't be able to see the answer to this, unless someone quotes it.
halva
06-10-2007, 02:52 AM
Footsoldier are you going to protest to the moderators now about the "thou shalt not gang up" rule and ask for us to have it in writing, or are you going to wait for Jay Reynolds to renew his attacks on you, and then protest to HIM?
foot_soldier
06-10-2007, 07:08 AM
Do you honestly think "protesting" to the moderators will do any good? Not that I would bother anyway at this late date.
I've been variously referred to in here as an asswipe, a cunt, a liar, a bitch, a treasonous fuck, mentally unstable, etc. for continuing to post on the subject of aviation impacts on our atmosphere.
Clearly there are no standards in place for conduct of civilized discourse in this forum venue and apparently no active moderation can be expected in that regard.
Such rules as exist (and are enforced) here are primarily for the protection of the board owner in my observation.
Hang it up, Wayne. It's a losing battle.
If you have something to say, just say it and Log Out.
jayreynolds
06-10-2007, 07:16 AM
The unacceptable element in these postings is apparently that I am attempting to “gang up” on other posters, acting as if DBS is “my private kingdom”.
Wayne, I personally don't believe you when you say "apparently". This is just a word play in which you spin what was actually said in a way that suits your purposes. If you want any commentary, show us what was actually said, not your spin on it.
In other words, my attempt to re-establish a coherent environment for discussion....blah blah blah.
Wayne, don't give us "in other words", that's just more of your spin.
Old Bean, you are being very hypocritical here. There has been no rule made here. If anything, there was maybe a suggestion. Your idea of a "coherent environment" has always been where you get to say whatever, and anyone who has other opinions gets banned. It's really that simple, and you've repeatedly asked for it many many times. You cannot deny this.
But heaven forbid any suggestion should be made, and Wayne suddenly becomes an aggrieved party acting all hurt like Paris Hilton.
How does it feel to be on the receiving end of a morsel of your own stock and trade, Wayne?
You can't handle even a dram of your own medicine, even when liberally sweetened and said for your own good.
What an sniveling coward you are, always wanting to get a mob behind you, incapable of individual responsibility, yet willing to do whatever to anyone else, then bawling like a baby when you don't get your own way. This behavior must surely have been developed at an early age, bub, and it's time you grew out of it.
CDsNuTz
06-10-2007, 08:59 AM
This is just a word play in which you spin what was actually said in a way that suits your purposes. If you want any commentary, show us what was actually said, not your spin on it.
Wayne, don't give us "in other words", that's just more of your spin.
Old Bean, you are being very hypocritical here..
WOW, Talk about calling the kettle black...
You're the KING of SPIN raymolds, anyone thats been here long enough knows that....
Jeff Reynolds
06-10-2007, 09:02 AM
Do you honestly think "protesting" to the moderators will do any good? Not that I would bother anyway at this late date.
I've been variously referred to in here as an asswipe, a cunt, a liar, a bitch, a treasonous fuck, mentally unstable, etc. for continuing to post on the subject of aviation impacts on our atmosphere.
Clearly there are no standards in place for conduct of civilized discourse in this forum venue and apparently no active moderation can be expected in that regard.
Such rules as exist (and are enforced) here are primarily for the protection of the board owner in my observation.
Hang it up, Wayne. It's a losing battle.
If you have something to say, just say it and Log Out.
I never called you a cunt, but you are definitely a treasonous fuck. The script has called for you and Onion Breath to be the two sides of the fake debate. "Lou" and "Halvar" have been established as being the strawmen.
The only ones I called cunts were shits like Halvar and Lord Spray.
Chemtrails are not contrails, bitch! :p
CDsNuTz
06-10-2007, 09:23 AM
The word is quite offensive no matter who you call it. Men don't use that word, boys do.. Why don't you try growing up for a change?...
CDsNuTz
06-10-2007, 09:30 AM
I never called you a cxxt
I would have to disagree, I'm pretty sure you called footsoldier that..If you weren't such a waste of time I'd go back and find it...
foot_soldier
06-10-2007, 11:36 AM
I never called you a cunt, but you are definitely a treasonous fuck. The script has called for you and Onion Breath to be the two sides of the fake debate. "Lou" and "Halvar" have been established as being the strawmen.
The only ones I called cunts were shits like Halvar and Lord Spray.
Chemtrails are not contrails, bitch! :p
The only "script" involved here is the one you're fabricating out of whole cloth.
Why don't you provide some direct evidence of my referring to "chemtrails" as "contrails" or shut up, OK? Links please.
You say you're 40 years old? Or is it 47? It's one or the other as I recall. Either way it's very hard to believe.
CDsNuTz
06-10-2007, 11:49 AM
You say you're 40 years old? Or is it 47? It's one or the other as I recall. Either way it's very hard to believe.
I remember that word being used a lot during my junior high days..
foot_soldier
06-10-2007, 11:56 AM
I remember that word being used a lot during my junior high days..
Well, I personally never heard it until I was well into high school but I'm probably a bit older than you are.
Hope you're having a pleasant Sunday.
halva
06-10-2007, 01:24 PM
No active moderation can be expected.
There is active moderation in support of the most destructive and disruptive inputs.
Jeff Reynolds
06-10-2007, 02:45 PM
The only "script" involved here is the one you're fabricating out of whole cloth.
Why don't you provide some direct evidence of my referring to "chemtrails" as "contrails" or shut up, OK? Links please.
You say you're 40 years old? Or is it 47? It's one or the other as I recall. Either way it's very hard to believe.
You started that thread on contrails and it was specifically in response to Jay Reynolds' debunking. You are clearly a paid, disinformation agent. You link to chemtrails from a website that labels them as contrails. You have been on these chemtrail boards since they started. You are at a website where Big Bunny has declared that chemtrails come from our neighborhood airports. Now why would someone like yourself spend all these years on chemtrail boards if you have had not one iota to offer about them. You are fudging chemtrails into contrails. Your true colours have been revealed the last half year. No one honest would ever delete the first post of a long thread unless they were up to something. On the proof that CTC is a disinfo Palace thread, it has been shown clearly that you and Chem11 are full of shit disinfo agents.
Look, you can post whatever the fuck you want, but the truth is now out there about all of you fuckers. When a cunt like CDisaRightWingNutz and all the other fake id's back you up, whoop de doo. Everyone out there who is objective can see what has happened. Halvar and Lou Aubuchont were strawmen for yourself and Jay Reynolds. You are one disgusting treasonous fuck footscab.
Jeff Reynolds
06-10-2007, 02:58 PM
I found my first post here FootScab. Only a disinfo agent would keep track of the 47 years old #. Back then I could see that Lou was J Vitum, but I didn't realize he was also "Tracker." And back then I had no idea that you were suck an ugly, treasonous fucker.
Here's where I wrote that I was 47. It was at Megasprayer where I told you you I was 40. We were gonna meet. You were interested in talking about the "psy-ops" on the chemtrail boards. Thank God we never met. I would have tried to contact you here after quitting Megasprayer, but I noticed you had shit to offer in Chem's fight club.
"Halvar" and "Lou" have been portrayed as strawmen for Foot Soldier and Jay Reynolds respectively. This was done in order to box the truthseekers out of the script. It is like when Clinton went to the right and then the antiwar crowd got squeezed out of American politics.
Foot Soldier, Jay Reynolds, Halva, and Lou are all disinfo agents on the same side. The chemtrail forums have been an insidious joke the whole time.
Here is my first post at DBS when I decided to team up with J. Vitum and pile on Lord Reynolds. At that time it hadn't dawned on me that Foot Soldier/ Chem11 are themselves debunkers who have been hiding in chemmie clothes all these years.
But yeah, you assholes keep spamming. People will come across this info that you are fakes, and then they will realize even more that chemtrails are real and have nothing to do with commercial airliners.
You Bitch!!!!
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=697595&postcount=1424
foot_soldier
06-10-2007, 03:02 PM
You're way out of line as usual.
What's the matter, can't you find any links to provide direct evidence for your bogus claims about me?
As far as I can tell, what you're really trying to accomplish here is to obfuscate and/or suppress factual information about the damage being done to our atmosphere by the burgeoning commercial and air cargo aviation sectors.
I see right through you and everyone else who is working your agenda.
foot_soldier
06-10-2007, 05:06 PM
Do you honestly think "protesting" to the moderators will do any good? Not that I would bother anyway at this late date.
I've been variously referred to in here as an asswipe, a cunt, a liar, a bitch, a treasonous fuck, mentally unstable, etc. for continuing to post on the subject of aviation impacts on our atmosphere.
Clearly there are no standards in place for conduct of civilized discourse in this forum venue and apparently no active moderation can be expected in that regard.
Such rules as exist (and are enforced) here are primarily for the protection of the board owner in my observation.
Hang it up, Wayne. It's a losing battle.
If you have something to say, just say it and Log Out.
halva wrote:
No active moderation can be expected
There is active moderation in support of the most destructive and disruptive inputs.
Wayne, if you're going to quote me, please don't do it out of context. Thank you.
As for your response, you may well be right.
I really don't know.
Dingo
06-10-2007, 05:36 PM
On moderating let me give you my understanding of the matter. The moderators can correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the standard is you can't start an attack thread against another poster. Aside from that as far as attacks on other posters unless there is the threat of severe mahem, then I think it is open season(The unofficial standard is really more constrained than the official one). Oh, you also can't reveal private information that detracts from their annonymity without the other posters permission or personally attack moderators for their moderating.
That is the way it should be so please don't bother the moderators if your complaint falls below that standard. There are plenty of heavily moderated sites around for folks with thin skins.
You're way out of line as usual.
What's the matter, can't you find any links to provide direct evidence for your bogus claims about me?
As far as I can tell, what you're really trying to accomplish here is to obfuscate and/or suppress factual information about the damage being done to our atmosphere by the burgeoning commercial and air cargo aviation sectors.
I see right through you and everyone else who is working your agenda.
FS,_Your dealing with a DAMM lunatic who is probably worse in many respects than Jay Reynolds is.
I believe that 'Jeffy Boy' / Socrates / FUIwon'tDoWhatUTellMe and probably a dozen other bogus names he has is now posting at CTC as a NUBI 'Deloris Friday" that just signed up as of June 4th.
Have a read and see if it does not resound with the classic 'Jeffy Boy' charter, this guy is a total Wacko.
http://chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread12146.html
Deloris Friday said,
"You did say some things in your post that clue me in to why you may be so hostile to what I posted. First you said you worked closely with government people., Second you did a classic little piece of psyops to discredit my theory by comparing it to aliens on the moon. I have come to the conclusion that you are probably a government agent."
Psyops, government agent, bla, bla, bla,.... if this isn't that ASSHOLE Jeffy Boy It's a GOD DAMM clone of him.
What a little weasel he is posting under so many names, you think he would at least try and disguise his same old ranting wherever he post about everyone working for the government and the "PSYOPS" thing which is a dead giveaway.
He is really getting bad, I think he need some serious mental help.
halva
06-10-2007, 08:18 PM
On moderating let me give you my understanding of the matter. The moderators can correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the standard is you can't start an attack thread against another poster. Aside from that as far as attacks on other posters unless there is the threat of severe mahem, then I think it is open season(The unofficial standard is really more constrained than the official one). Oh, you also can't reveal private information that detracts from their annonymity without the other posters permission or personally attack moderators for their moderating.
That is the way it should be so please don't bother the moderators if your complaint falls below that standard. There are plenty of heavily moderated sites around for folks with thin skins.
The one who has been bothering the moderator the most
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=59412
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=813192&postcount=2
is the one whose side she has taken in this instance, and in fact in all instances.
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=813404&postcount=8380
If you want to get involved in this issue, Dingo, check out the facts before expressing your opinion. Check out the facts on the subject "under discussion" too, for that matter.
Jeff Reynolds, set Dingo straight about "chemtrails" and explain why you want to be the only person here saying what you say about them, having driven everyone else on "our side" away.
halva
06-10-2007, 08:21 PM
Lou, will you ask the moderators that the "Thou shalt not gang up" rule be put in writing? And say what you think about them taking sides against me and in favour of Jeff Reynolds when I was attempting to defend you against his slander and threats? That is what happened.
Have you done a bit of homework now Dingo, and got straight what is really going on here?
Lou, will you ask the moderators that the "Thou shalt not gang up" rule be put in writing? And reproach them for taking sides against me and in favour of Jeff Reynolds when I was attempting to defend you against his slander and threats? That is what happened.
Have you done a bit of homework now Dingo, and got straight what is really going on here?
Wayne_I will leave running to the moderators to those who feel the need to whine and complain, the moderators have enough to do and really do not need to babysit this Science section of DBS 24/7 because there are lunatics running loose.
Thank you for defending me from the NUTBALLS BS but that's just what it is, "BS" and I don't have to defend myself from someone who is so blatantly out of control, everyone can see that he is off the tracks, so why don't you just "Chill "out.
Whatever accusations that he is making up about me or others is baseless and he is just looking more and more like a foolish little clown, let him rant like a MOONBAT, it will just confirm his WACKONESS. :D
halva
06-10-2007, 08:44 PM
And another thing Dingo, Jay Reynolds, who - if you check back to the beginning of this thread - joined battle with us three or four years ago and has finally, with the help of Jeff Reynolds and the moderators of this forum, finally emerged as the winner, is not only a "chemtrail" debunker but also an anthropogenic climate change "sceptic". Are victories by that side what you want to see?
If not, what are you going to do about it?
Answer, please.
Dingo
06-10-2007, 08:59 PM
halva. The unacceptable element in these postings is apparently that I am attempting to “gang up” on other posters, acting as if DBS is “my private kingdom”.
If "ganging up" on other posters short of starting attack threads, talking about having carnal knowledge of their mothers, threatening mayhem on them or revealing their name and address without their permission gets you banned then I would say you have a legitimate complaint. Folks gang up on each other all the time on this forum. And if you want to prance about acting like DBS is your private kingdom then I can hardly imagine why the moderators would find that anything other than cute. ;)
A Voice appears to want the posters to take more time to work out their own problems without involving her in other than the most egregious infractions. Seems reasonable to me. I've only complained to the moderators about a specific infraction once. It had nothing to do with me. A poster threatened the life of an important public official and I thought it compromised the board and of course was a serious breach of the rules. There's not much else that would get me to report anybody.
halva
06-10-2007, 11:37 PM
What about the other aspect, i.e. that the ultimate beneficiary from all this mayhem is a climate change contrarian? You devote an incredible amount of time and energy to fighting people with whom you disagree on a number of issues, including climate change. Why have you avoided getting into a fight with Jay Reynolds?
Dingo
06-11-2007, 04:18 AM
What about the other aspect, i.e. that the ultimate beneficiary from all this mayhem is a climate change contrarian? You devote an incredible amount of time and energy to fighting people with whom you disagree on a number of issues, including climate change. Why have you avoided getting into a fight with Jay Reynolds?
Halva how many people have told you you're just plain weird? I can't imagine getting into a discussion about why you or anybody else DOESN'T exchange posts with somebody. If it happens it happens. I don't generally post in this section so I don't have many exchanges with much of anybody around here. If I did it would be mainly because they addressed me particularly on a thread I started. What's with your match making obsessions?
halva
06-11-2007, 05:56 AM
When you come in to this section expressing opinions on matters you don't understand I just wonder how interested you are in actually understanding them, and if there is some way of producing a situation whereby you do.
I am similarly trying to matchmake now to get Jeff Reynolds to talk to you about chemtrails, if he still remembers that it was his concern about that subject that brought him to this forum.
halva
06-11-2007, 08:48 PM
Thank you for defending me from the NUTBALLS BS but that's just what it is, "BS" and I don't have to defend myself from someone who is so blatantly out of control, everyone can see that he is off the tracks, so why don't you just "Chill "out.
Just to be more precise in my criticism: it is not true that EVERYONE can see that Socrates/Jeff Reynolds is off the tracks. Apart from A Voice, the moderator who has taken sides with him, there is also Dingo, who has come in making his comments as if it is someone else of us other than Jeff Reynolds who has been pestering the moderator to throw others off.
Not everyone can see as you say. Dingo clearly does not have a clue. I have spoken to Dingo as you see. If you don't want to bother the moderators why not at least say something to Dingo. After all it was through attempting to defend YOU that I got into trouble, via Jeff Reynolds, with the moderator.
Think about it. It is after all because the resistance to Jay Reynolds has at times been successful here that you changed your mind about posting here. Admittedly, Jeff Reynolds/Socrates' losing the script in his desperation - given that he feels he has burnt his bridges and has no alternative now other than to continue on the wrong road he started, makes things more complicated. As does the stance of the moderators. But you could at least say something to Dingo. As indeed could Jeff Reynolds, if - as I assume - he has not done so, and if he wants Dingo to understand his viewpoint on chemtrails.
halva
06-12-2007, 12:03 AM
Do you honestly think "protesting" to the moderators will do any good? Not that I would bother anyway at this late date.
Hang it up, Wayne. It's a losing battle.
At times "A Voice" looks as if she is TRYING to do the right thing. For example when it was brought to her attention that Jay Reynolds had started a number of attack threads she offered to take the matter up with him, until I said to forget it and let sleeping dogs lie as Reynolds appeared to have gone away.
If it is a losing battle, Footsoldier, why do you keep posting here, despite all my pleas that if you can't protect your own dignity (or petition to have it protected) you should cease doing so.
halva
06-12-2007, 08:25 PM
I am not reading either what Jay Reynolds is posting after Lou's postings, or what Jeff Reynolds is posting after Footsoldier's postings, but I can imagine their content. Why does not Jeff Reynolds say something to Dingo about chemtrails? Has he forgotten that the reason he originally wanted to drive all the other "chemmies" away was so that he could be "Mr. Chemtrails" himself? Have his ambitions shrunk now to becoming nothing more or less than Jay Reynolds's asistant, displacing Smellie? Admittedly he is probably doing a better job than Smellie at disrupting and hounding.
halva
06-12-2007, 08:48 PM
Hello folks!
We hope everyone's summer is going well and mostly chemtrail-free. One can hope.
We are writing to tell you that we have added a new feature to our website at www.chemtrails911.com.
We have added a world map that allows chemtrail watchers and activists to put themselves on it. We invite you to sign-up. It is like a guestbook and you can remain anonymous by signing-up with a pseudonym if you wish. You can put yourself on the map to show everyone that your area is getting sprayed and that you are aware of it.
We have added this feature for a few reasons. We often get emails from people who write to us and tell us that they feel so alone and feel like they are the only ones in their areas that know about chemtrails. We hope and feel that this feature may help to unite the chemtrail observers of the world. It can be used as a tool to find other people in your area that care about the chemtrail issue and allow people to connect with each other to form groups and to take action.
It is also a good tool to show the world that there are so many of us that are paying attention to the skies and that we want the spraying to stop.
When you sign-up, it will give you an option to add a photo of yourself. But we thought, instead of a portrait, it would be great if you upload a picture of the chemtrails in your own area.
We hope you will sign-up and have fun with this new feature. Let's show the world how many of us there are. Let's show that we're aware, we're not alone, and we want these aerosol crimes to stop!
Thanks!
www.chemtrails911.com
Look Up! Wake Up! Speak Out!
jayreynolds
06-12-2007, 11:46 PM
I am not reading either what Jay Reynolds is posting after Lou's postings, or what Jeff Reynolds is posting after Footsoldier's postings, but I can imagine their content. Why does not Jeff Reynolds say something to Dingo about chemtrails?
Wayne, what a oob you are. Everybody knows that you could never and indeed have never ignored anyone posting here. You read every word.
Your comment above reveals that yet again you are lying.
Unless you were readig what 'Socrates'(aka 'Jeff Reynolds') has been writing, you would not be wondering why[/b] he hasn't been postng to Dingo, You would have been wondering if he has been posting to Dingo.
It's time to end these pretenses, Wayne. All your insistence that everyone else should ignore anyone is something you personally will never do yourself.
A double standard no different from muchof yor behavior.
Sick little man.
Boomer Chick
06-15-2007, 04:51 PM
It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature because this is what might happen:
http://resumbrae.com/archive/warming/100meter.html
:eek:
halva
06-15-2007, 08:31 PM
The Al Gore visit is focusing public attention on this subject in Greece this week. coinciding with two public meetings where the chemtrails issue is raised, once as an intervention, asking the parliamentarian Kouvelis what he is planning to do now that he has received the government's response to his question, once where it is the exclusive subject for discussion.
Dr. Zerefos also gave an interview for a mass circulation newspaper where his position on geoengineering is visibly shifting from his past rejection to qualified acceptance, all the time of course maintaining the stance that these are proposals, not descriptions of what is already happening.
halva
06-16-2007, 10:19 PM
Wayne, this is a parody, isn't it?
First of all, Aegina(pop. 12,000) is unlikely to ever become capitil of Europe, it's just a vacation-home destination for affluent Athenians and a pistachio plantation. Secondly, why lie about Espanola, Ontario? Someone there many years ago griped to the parliament about "chemtrails", with the same disappointing results.
It's as if you want to discourage people when you publish such braggadocious bravado full of lies.
I have removed Jay Reynolds (temporarily or permanently) from ignore listing in order to take up the point he makes here.
A former American diplomat has suggested that that a twinning be attempted not between Aigina and Portland, Oregon but between Aigina and Bainbridge Island off Seattle.
Boomer Chick
06-19-2007, 09:38 AM
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2007/2006JD008140.shtml
JOURNAL OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH, VOL. 112, D12103, doi:10.1029/2006JD008140, 2007
On the variability of summer air temperature during the last 28 years in Athens
I. Livada
Group Building Environmental Studies, Physics Department, University of Athens, Panepistimioupolis, Athens, Greece
M. Santamouris
Group Building Environmental Studies, Physics Department, University of Athens, Panepistimioupolis, Athens, Greece
M. N. Assimakopoulos
Group Building Environmental Studies, Physics Department, University of Athens, Panepistimioupolis, Athens, Greece
Abstract
The increase of living standards in buildings and the high, summer maximum air-temperature values during the last years have important economic, technical, social, and environmental consequences. Analysis of the summer ambient temperatures is thus necessary to investigate, among others, the important impact on energy consumption. Ambient temperature data from the National Observatory of Athens station for the period 1950–2004 are presented. The number of hours with air temperature above 30°C, as well as the degree hour values (DH) in base of 30°C are estimated and statistically analyzed in order to evaluate passive, hybrid, and conventional cooling systems and techniques. The general conclusion of this study is that during the last 15 years there is a dramatic increase of the number of hours with high air temperatures that leads to an increasing persistence of hot weather conditions. This corresponds, however, to the rising part of the air temperature cyclic change which does not verify yet the estimated significant increasing tendency.
Received 10 October 2006; accepted 13 March 2007; published 16 June 2007.
Keywords: Ambient temperature; temperature trends; CO2 concentration.
Index Terms: 1637 Global Change: Regional climate change; 3305 Atmospheric Processes: Climate change and variability (1616, 1635, 3309, 4215, 4513); 0910 Exploration Geophysics: Data processing.
***
Why don't you contact these people, Halva? They seem to be in the thick of it.
halva
06-19-2007, 11:08 AM
I am trying to get people concerned about climate change involved in dialogue on OUR terms, rather than helping them to promote their issues while they ignore ours.
halva
06-19-2007, 02:49 PM
A reckless, profit-driven experiment endangers the Galapagos Islands
A company called Planktos is about to dump tons of iron particles over thousands of square miles of ocean near the Galapagos. Planktos claims that the iron dump will stimulate phytoplankton growth, which in turn will absorb carbon from the atmosphere and help offset global warming. Scientists disagree.
Prominent experts say that the iron dump is not only unlikely to remove carbon from the atmosphere in any lasting or significant way, but that such "iron fertilization" threatens ocean ecosystems and could actually alter them in ways that lead to methane and nitrous oxide production, which cause global warming.
The Galapagos National Park in Ecuador is expressing great concern about the dump, and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency was demanding answers about potential harm this dump may cause the Galapagos - which prompted Planktos to change the flag under which it sails and abandon plans to use a U.S.-based ship.
Given such opposition, why not abandon the dump? Planktos CEO Russ George has promised investors that his iron dumping scheme is a sure way to get rich. He's attempting to sell carbon offsets to global warming polluters - and says he's also going to win Richard Branson's $25 million Virgin Earth Challenge prize.
Planktos is going full steam ahead.
On the agenda of the International Maritime Organization meeting in Spain this week are both the Planktos dump and a broader discussion of iron fertilization schemes.
Friends of the Earth has been in communication with other environmental groups, scientists around the world, Richard Branson, and even the president of Planktos to stop this project.
www.FOE.org/Save_the_Galapagos
halva
06-20-2007, 01:51 AM
There is to be a meeting of the United States Social forum in Atlanta, Georgia from 26th June to 1st July. This is the second time that a Social Forum will have been held in the United States, the first one having taken place in Boston in 2004
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Social_Forum
Details for the up-coming Social Forum meeting are at: https://www.ussf2007.org/
What can be done to assure that subjects such as 911 Truth and geoengineering/weather modification will be discussed, if not at this Social Forum, then at least at future ones?
halva
06-20-2007, 11:53 PM
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2007/2006JD008140.shtml
JOURNAL OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH, VOL. 112, D12103, doi:10.1029/2006JD008140, 2007
On the variability of summer air temperature during the last 28 years in Athens
I. Livada
Group Building Environmental Studies, Physics Department, University of Athens, Panepistimioupolis, Athens, Greece
M. Santamouris
Group Building Environmental Studies, Physics Department, University of Athens, Panepistimioupolis, Athens, Greece
M. N. Assimakopoulos
Group Building Environmental Studies, Physics Department, University of Athens, Panepistimioupolis, Athens, Greece
Abstract
The increase of living standards in buildings and the high, summer maximum air-temperature values during the last years have important economic, technical, social, and environmental consequences. Analysis of the summer ambient temperatures is thus necessary to investigate, among others, the important impact on energy consumption. Ambient temperature data from the National Observatory of Athens station for the period 1950–2004 are presented. The number of hours with air temperature above 30°C, as well as the degree hour values (DH) in base of 30°C are estimated and statistically analyzed in order to evaluate passive, hybrid, and conventional cooling systems and techniques. The general conclusion of this study is that during the last 15 years there is a dramatic increase of the number of hours with high air temperatures that leads to an increasing persistence of hot weather conditions. This corresponds, however, to the rising part of the air temperature cyclic change which does not verify yet the estimated significant increasing tendency.
Received 10 October 2006; accepted 13 March 2007; published 16 June 2007.
Keywords: Ambient temperature; temperature trends; CO2 concentration.
Index Terms: 1637 Global Change: Regional climate change; 3305 Atmospheric Processes: Climate change and variability (1616, 1635, 3309, 4215, 4513); 0910 Exploration Geophysics: Data processing.
***
Why don't you contact these people, Halva? They seem to be in the thick of it.
BC it is more important for you to concentrate on action on YOUR side of the Atlantic.
The fact is that the kind of state power that is necessary for dealing with climate change has been given to non-communist governments in the past only in wartime situations.
The rules of representative democracy dictate that climate change "sceptics" be as free as anyone else to promote what they claim are their "interests". This in itself is enough to preclude any effective state action.
The social forums, even under their present "gatekeeper Left" leadership, do not make a platform available to climate change contrarians. They therefore, even as they are now, have a superior claim to legitimacy, by comparison with the parliaments and congresses of representative democracy.
The question I asked about the United States Social Forum: will it be possible to get 911 Truth, geoengineering/weather modification, included on future agendas -amounts to the question of whether it will be possible for the present monopoly of leadership of the Social Forums by the gatekeeper Left to be challenged, without changing policy on climate change for the worse, i.e. opening it to the "contrarians" .
halva
06-21-2007, 02:54 AM
Fighting the "gatekeeper Left" while making no concessions to the climate change contrarians is exactly the kind of task that could suit the temperament of a Jeff Reynolds if he had an off-internet orientation. Of course the Social Forum has already been to Boston (2004) and now is to be held in Atlanta Georgia. But it is an ongoing process.
halva
06-23-2007, 10:48 PM
I NEED ANY AND ALL EVIDENCE OF CHEMTRAILS!!!
Date: Jun 23, 2007 2:08 PM
I'm leading a charge for Air Quality in the San Joaquin Valley. I need your support and evidence of chemtrails! I want stacks of data. Everything you've got. Opinions, photos, documents, documentaries, the top researchers, videos, lab results? anything. Let's get this ball rolling! Yestarday I presented data on chemtrails to the California Air Resources Board in Los Angeles.
The Clean Air Act (CAA) directs the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to establish aircraft and aircraft engine emissions standards for any air pollutant that could reasonably endanger public health and welfare........ In establishing U.S. emissions standards, EPA must consult with the Department of Transportation (DOT) to ensure such regulations' effective dates permit the development of requisite technology, giving appropriate consideration to compliance cost. It must also consult with DOT concerning aircraft safety before promulgating emissions standards.
Under the CAA, DOT is responsible for enforcing standards established by EPA. DOT delegated enforcement responsibility to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). FAA has issued regulations administering and enforcing the emissions standards that apply to civil airplanes powered by gas turbine engines. FAA ensures compliance with these regulations by reviewing and approving certification test plans, procedures, test reports, and engine emissions certification levels. For more information on aircraft emissions or to access EPA's or FAA's aircraft regulations, visit the Aviation Emissions Website of EPA's Office of Transportation and Air Quality.
Sooooo....If it is shown to the EPA that this is of 'reasonable risk to our health' they are legally required under federal law to regulate those emissions and delegate authority to CARB and the FAA for the enforcement.
Please join me in this fight. Help me get this to be front page news. Any and all help is appreciated.
Pamela: pamelasprotest@comcast.net .
halva
06-23-2007, 11:23 PM
Out of the blue: on weather warfare, etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://allthingspass.com/uploads/doc-142Out%20Of%20The%20Blue%20Rev%20Aug_06.doc
halva
06-29-2007, 10:27 PM
United States Social Forum
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0705/S00480.htm
http://www.mwsocialforum.org/ussf
https://www.ussf2007.org/
http://sojust.meetup.com/1/calendar/5759492/
http://www.grassrootsonline.org/blog/join-grassroots-international-united-states-social-forum-atlanta-june-27-30
halva
07-01-2007, 09:43 AM
AN UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTH:
GEOENGINEERING ALERT + CAPS & TRADES
PART 2
By Rosalind Peterson
July 1, 2007
NewsWithViews.com
http://www.newswithviews.com/Peterson/rosalind3.htm
Geoengineering projects are beginning to proliferate around the world due to a money market scheme called “CAP & TRADES”. According to David W. Keith, (Department of Engineering & Public Policy, Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA): “…Geoengineering is planetary-scale environmental engineering, particularly engineering aimed at counteracting the undesired side effects of other human activities…The term has usually been applied to proposal for limiting the climatic impact of industrial CO2 emissions by countervailing measures…”
Some of these projects include, iron fertilization of our oceans to create artificial algae blooms, shielding of sunlight from reaching the earth through the use of particulates (like sulfur being released into the atmosphere), putting giant sun reflectors into orbit, pumping liquid CO2 into the deep sea oceans, genetically engineering crops, weather modification, greening deserts, use of chemicals in the atmosphere to save ozone (to allegedly counteract the nitric oxide, released as part of jet fuel emissions, that reduces beneficial atmospheric ozone), and a myriad of other proposals. Many of these schemes are going online or are proposed because our military, private corporations, universities, and other government agencies are obtaining more public financing and investment money to continue or initiate these experiments.
Now, climate change and the drumbeat of a crisis called “global warming” has brought some of these geoengineering experiments to light and many geoengineers are ready and waiting to implement a whole array of experimental programs to “save the planet”. None of them really know the consequences of those programs on the environment, public health, or agriculture…and yet they want to experiment without having a public debate (November 2006 NASA Ames Geoengineering Meeting where the public and the press were deliberately not invited to attend).
Climate change had been largely ignored in the United States even though many countries around the world had been engaged in discussions on this subject for many years. Since 2005, the subject of climate change in the United States has been brought to the forefront of news media cycles the same way that the Iraq War was sold to the people of the United States. It was labeled a “crisis” and then followed an incredible “we must do something now” planetary emergency drumbeat led by former Vice-President Al Gore, trumpeting a book, then a movie, along with a massive well-orchestrated media blitz, accompanied by speaking engagements across the United States.
According to Al Gore: “…The relationship between human civilization and the Earth has been utterly transformed by a combination of factors, including the population explosion, the technological revolution, and a willingness to ignore the future consequences of our present actions…” However, Gore manages our perceptions of climate change, it causes, and possible solutions, in a way that is disingenuous because it obscures some of the real causes while working to allow polluters to buy money market credits under a “cap and trade” scheme that will allow pollution to continue unabated or to increase.
A company call Planktos, located in California, has been experimenting with pilot projects in the last few years by adding iron particulates to our oceans to create algae blooms (ocean geoengineering). And yet, Planktos, without any government oversight or public debate is about to take one of the most beautiful, scenic, and diverse marine life regions, the Galapagos Island area, and transform it by placing iron particulates in the ocean to create artificial algae blooms, that will threaten ocean ecosystems. This project is schedule to start this summer unless stopped. These algae blooms will be so large that they may be seen from space…an enormous environmental experiment with unknown consequences.
According to Friends of the Earth, “…The Galapagos National Park in Ecuador is expressing great concern about the dump, and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency was demanding answers about the potential harm this dump may cause the Galapagos – which prompted Planktos to change the flag under which it sails and abandon plans to use a U.S.-based ship…Planktos CEO Russ George has promised investors that his iron dumping scheme is a sure way to get rich. He’s attempting to sell carbon offsets to global warming polluters…” And they are heavily lobbying Congress to approve of using our oceans for private profit to allow polluters to pollute more.
The problem with Planktos, is that they are now using questionable scientific market-based, large scale schemes to acidify our oceans and using our ocean resources to make money. They act like they own our oceans and that they can experiment at will without considering the environmental, marine life, birds, animals, food chains, or human health consequences. Is it time to put a stop to the using of our oceans, our food commons, for questionable untested experimentation for private profit and greed? And it won’t help global warming because those that buy the credits will continue to pollute at accelerating rates.
And where is the iron dust for this project coming from? According to George Russ from Planktos: “…We buy it from iron ore producers. We buy an ultra, ultra fine dust, where the dust particle is smaller than that, that blows in the wind, so that it won’t sink…”
In the Vancouver Sun’s June 19, 2007 Article Planktos’ claims are disputed: “…That claim is disputed by Chris Field of the Carnegie Institution's Department of Global Ecology, who says that the absorption of increasing amounts of carbon dioxide is the main cause of ocean acidification in the first place. "It may be possible to store excess carbon in the ocean, but you'll be acidifying the ocean when you do it, and causing a dramatic change in the the ocean's ecology, with no known effects," Mr. Field said. Ken Caldeira, also of the Carnegie Institution, says "there's no practical way to verify" that ocean seeding would sequester any additional carbon -- and if it did, "it would exacerbate ocean acidification. Caldeira was co-author of a section of the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report that dealt with ocean-carbon capture. "It's far-fetched to claim you help ocean ecosystems by disturbing them," he said…”
halva
07-01-2007, 09:45 AM
“Cap and Trade” money market schemes are only one of the driving forces involved in many of these geoengineering projects. Our military, defense contractors, and private corporations, working with government agencies and universities, are in the lead on developing and implementing some of these projects and more will proliferate in the future without public or government oversight and debate unless we, the people, say “NO.”
A change came across America in the late 1980s. A subtle change, an uneasy change, which was not preceded by any public announcement. It was brought about by the marriage of money (our American tax dollars), advanced computer technology, increasing scientific and other technological capabilities. This subtle change was not noticed by the public at first. The geoengineering experiments and the ground work for this change started in the late 1960s, accelerated through the 1970s, and many went from the drawing boards to implementation in the 1980s, through 2007.
The public was left in the dark not only about these various geoengineering experiments but the consequences of these experiments. It was only through careful documentation of government documents, scientific studies, and university records that these early experiments started to come to light. The public, not warned about these experiments began to notice the changes around them, some of the changes were so subtle, at first, that few recognized them.
A whole new military, government, university, and private corporation language, with its own vocabulary and acronyms, had evolved and was being used in a few military and scientific circles around the world. The public was deliberately left in the dark. Even today most of our high school and most university textbooks don’t use or define this new vocabulary or explore these types of experiments.
A few geoengineers will tell you that they deliberately kept this subject quiet. They knew that if the public found out about their plans for our atmosphere they would object and the projects would be stopped. Even today geoengineers have no idea what the synergistic impacts would be if some of these programs were initiated. And today they continue experimenting on our environment in ways where they have little, if any, control over the experiment or its final outcomes. The public is left to “live inside these experiments” suffering any adverse consequences without any knowledge of their negative impacts or even that the experiments have been implemented.
The Planktos project and its oceanic implications have gone almost unreported. There have been no public debates. The U.S. Congress has not taken up this subject even though Planktos is located in California. The public has been left in the dark about these issues for the most part because, if told, we would object, ask for hearings, and demand and end to this type of program. And worse yet Planktos is alleged to be planning five more similar experimental ocean pilot projects.
According to George Russ: “…we’re a private, for-profit company that has been raising money in adventure capital and investment banking in North America, but more importantly the European Union. Presently, our funding has come from the investment community, because we will be a publicly trading company very shortly…” And they are looking for Senate Bill 280 funding for their private company. Currently they are promoting and are ready to begin this project in the Galapagos ocean area at almost any time.
An Investigation of a current bill before the United State House of Representatives - HR 1091: [Read] “To reauthorize the Harmful Algal Bloom and Hypoxia Research and Control Act of 1998, and for other purposes”, contains the following information which gives us many reasons to stop the Planktos project:
“The U.S. Congress finds the following:
(1) A harmful algal bloom is a condition that occurs in ocean waters when a significantly large and highly concentrated growth of phytoplankton or algae produces biotoxins or otherwise causes negative effects.
(2) A common harmful algal bloom event known as Red Tide occurs when appropriate conditions allow for massive overgrowth of micro algae, causing phytoplankton blooms that discolor the water.
(3) Harmful algal blooms commonly occur in waters off the East and West coasts of the United States, as well as in the Gulf of Mexico, the Great Lakes, and the waters surrounding the offshore territories of the United States.
(4) Harmful algal blooms cause dangerous respiratory distress, burning eyes, and other ailments to individuals in affected areas, as well as the nationwide potential of severe food poisoning from the consumption of contaminated shellfish.
(5) Harmful algal blooms cause severe impacts to natural resources by way of illness and death to marine mammals, fish, sea turtles, and sea birds as well as coral reef and sea grass communities. As massive algal blooms die, their decomposition depletes oxygen from the water resulting in hypoxic and anoxic conditions leaving vast dead zones in our coastal oceans and lakes.
(6) Harmful algal blooms cause significant economic harm to businesses and individuals engaged in fishing and shell fishing, as well as to communities and businesses that depend on their coastal location for tourism.
(7) Because harmful algal blooms are affected by many variables, including weather and currents, it is impossible to predict the location, timing, or duration of harmful algal blooms, and further study is needed to understand how these variables, as well as other environmental factors, may cause or contribute to the formation or maintenance of harmful algal blooms…”
It is time to not only object but to contact our elected representatives and demand that they protect our marine ocean environment from debatable profiteering schemes. Defeat U.S. Senate Bill 280 (Senator Lieberman’s Bill), and U.S. House Bill 906 and stop these market driven solutions that use our oceans for questionable “cap and trade” schemes that will allow polluters by credits to continue to pollute our environment more. For part one click below.
halva
07-04-2007, 11:46 AM
Monday, July 2 2007
US Social Forum Supports Call for Independent, International Investigation into 9/11
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20070702180355632
During June 27th to July 1st, approximately 9,400 people from across the America, and beyond, gathered in Atlanta for the historic, first-ever United States Social Forum. Thanks to donations from some of our generous supporters, 911Truth.org was there, together with about 15 other 911Truth activists from Georgia, California, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Washington DC, and Maryland. We went with the idea we'd work to "convince" people to look at the need for a real investigation into the crimes of 9/11. After all, the various issues and causes represented by this diversity of People were predicated, to such a strong degree, upon the events of 9/11, and it made sense that if presented with the information, we'd win some allies.
We were wrong. What we found, instead, was that nearly everyone we spoke with was already aware of at least some questions about 9/11 and agreed with us! The People, in spite of resistance we've heard from many of their organizational "leaders," are already with us.
We learned that on Sunday, the People would gather for a final Assembly where resolutions would be read and voted upon. Peter Thottam, of 911TruthLA recommended we submit a proposal, so the group of us at dinner on Friday pulled together the whereas's and therefore's, Peter and Keith Dunwoody (of Atlanta) tweaked and typed it up, Brian Ottolini made 1000 copies, and the group hit the ground Saturday morning to distribute the copies and talk with people. At the last minute, Jose Rodriguez graciously translated it into Spanish, (in spite of a bum foot which kept him from joining us), and on Sunday morning, at the People's Assembly, Peter Thottam spoke to the thousands at this final gathering, to introduce both this resolution and another very strong resolution supporting Bush & Cheney's Impeachment. (Full text of both resolutions follows.)
With resounding applause, the thousands in attendance approved both resolutions.
And as stated at the end of the resolution, we will see to it that every member of Congress will receive this message--loud and clear!
Our thanks to all of the 911truth activists who worked hard this weekend, the truth activists and 9/11 victims' family members who have worked these last 5+ years to lay the foundation to make this possible, to Cindy Sheehan for her clear, strong voice, and to the 911truth.org supporters who sent us to Atlanta. Thank you all!!
Friends, we are everyone. We are everywhere! Truth will prevail!
WAR, MILITARISM & THE PRISON-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX
U.S. SOCIAL FORUM SUPPORTS CINDY SHEEHAN'S CALL FOR A NEW INDEPENDENT AND INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATION OF THE CAUSES AND CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDING THE EVENTS OF SEPTEMBER 11, 2001
WHEREAS, in accordance with the 2007 U.S. Social Forum's Charter of Principles we are united in our opposition to "...any form of imperialism, and are committed to building a planetary society..." and are united in the common purpose of social, economic and political justice; and
WHEREAS, the attacks of September 11, 2001 have been consistently used by the U.S. government as the basis for preemptive illegal wars and empire building, commonly known as the "Bush Doctrine"; and
WHEREAS, the so-called "war on terrorism" has become an excuse for the unprecedented destruction of civil liberties, the erosion of constitutional rights, of domestic surveillance of U.S. citizens, and illegal detention of immigrants; and
WHEREAS, the vast economic, intellectual and psychological resources of the American people has been redirected away from needy communities and towards the pursuit of endless war and global hegemony in a marriage of corporatism and policy; and
WHEREAS, the 9/11 Commission and their resulting report were clearly compromised by conflicts of interest and ignored, distorted and omitted numerous crucial facts surrounding the attacks of September 11 2001 to fit the officially sanctioned story; and
WHEREAS, members of at least 80 countries died on September 11, 2001; and
WHEREAS, according to numerous national polls, as much as 84% of Americans state they have significant unanswered questions about the events of September 11, 2001;
WE, THE PEOPLE OF THE 2007 UNITED STATES SOCIAL FORUM, HEREBY RESOLVE:
To support and pursue the growing calls for a new, international and fully independent investigation into the causes and events surrounding the attacks on September 11, 2001.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that a copy of this resolution be presented to every Member of Congress.
US SOCIAL FORUM RESOLUTION CALLING FOR THE IMPEACHMENT, CONVICTION AND REMOVAL FROM OFFICE
OF PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH AND VICE PRESIDENT RICHARD CHENEY
WHEREAS, in accordance with the 2007 U.S. Social Forum's Charter of Principles we are united in our opposition to "...any form of imperialism, and are committed to building a planetary society..." and are united in the common purpose of social, economic and political justice; and
WHEREAS, President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney have repeatedly and intentionally violated the Constitution of the United States causing the People to question the integrity of both the President and Vice President and to suspect that high crimes and misdemeanors have been committed. These violations include but are not limited to:
q Violating the People's Constitutional right to privacy in their persons and papers by engaging in a persistent, secret and unregulated pattern of domestic surveillance that bypasses the institution (FISA) established for that purpose.
q Conspiring to deprive United States citizens of Constitutional legal protections and access to Justice when charged with or suspected of crimes.
q Exceeding Constitutional Authority to wage war by invading a sovereign nation in direct defiance of the United Nations Security Council.
q Acting upon an interpretation of the Constitution (the "unitary executive") that ignores standard Separation of Powers and regards the Presidency as unlimited in ability to wage war, bypass civil liberties and remain above the law.
WHEREAS, President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney repeatedly and intentionally misled the Congress, the International Community and the American People as to the risks posed by Iraq, as well as other groups or nations. These misrepresentations, and the actions they triggered, resulted in substantial loss of life to the People of the United States, loss of national treasure and the diminution of our nation's standing in the world. Such misrepresentations include:
q Influencing, manipulating and distorting intelligence prepared by national agencies such as the CIA, NSA and FBI, so as to present a biased view of events that would support specific strategies favored by the Administration.
q Knowingly and publicly presenting untrue statements regarding Saddam Hussein's acquiring uranium resources from Africa as part of a reconstituted Nuclear Program, as well as additional untrue statements that Iraq had fully active Chemical and Biological Programs as well.
q Presenting doctored photographs and satellite images to the domestic and international community to support such lies and manipulations.
WHEREAS, President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney have engaged in a pattern of behavior considered to be War Crimes per the Geneva Accords, United Nations Charter and other international treaties to which the United States is a signatory. This behavior includes use of torture, rendering persons to a third party where they will undergo torture and confinement without access to courts of law.
WHEREAS, President George W. Bush and Vice President Richard B. Cheney have abused their powers under the Constitution plus engaged in a pattern of lying and deceit to cover up such abuses. These abuses include:
q Excessive and obstructive use of Presidential Signing Statements as a strategy to bypass the execution of duly passed legislation as required under the Constitution's separation of powers doctrine.
q Prohibiting, delaying and limiting cabinet members and staff members of the Administration from providing information to Congress in support of Congress' standard oversight role. .
q Revealing the identity of a covert CIA agent (Valerie Plame) engaged in Middle East intelligence work, presumably as a response to policy criticism by her spouse (Ambassador Wilson).
q Undermining the integrity, readiness and efficacy of governmental agencies such that the People are not reliably served and have reason to doubt the fair and equitable use of national resources. Examples include the Department of Justice, Veterans Administration, FEMA, National Guard, no-bid/no-oversight of government contracting and deployment of our nation's Armed Forces without providing for sufficient equipment, training and mission planning.
BE IT RESOLVED, that the 2007 United States Social Forum, the first United States Social Forum, supports the impeachment of George W. Bush, President of the United States and Richard B. Cheney, Vice President of the United States for high crimes and misdemeanors and if found guilty be removed from office.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that a copy of this resolution be presented to every California Democratic Member of Congress.
NATIONWIDE IMPEACHMENT TRENDS
The list of state Democratic Parties that have passed resolutions urging the impeachment of Bush and Cheney has recently grown to 15. Meanwhile, 11 state legislatures have introduced such resolutions, which have now been passed by at least 77 cities and towns and a growing list of labor unions and other organizations. These resolutions are all listed at http://impeachpac.org/resolutions-list.
Dingo
07-05-2007, 05:25 PM
Okay there are two resolutions here.
1. One to further investigate matters that were handled possibly inaccurately or were left out of the official 911 Commission Report.
2. A resolution to impeach Cheney and Bush for specified causes.
So far so good. Now whose proposing this? Apparently the 911Truth movement. That should sink it right there. They are a bunch of wacked out conspiracy nuts who think the WTC buildings were demolitioned and the Pentagon was hit by a missile. What responsible person wants to be associated with such a nutcase outfit?
So you have two legitimate resolutions(Well they need a little more focus but I can help them with that ;)) undermined by a bunch of UFO style conspiracy nuts. How much mileage do you think this is going to get?
Oh by the way halva, this is a science forum in case you forgot. :rolleyes:
halva
07-05-2007, 08:07 PM
The trouble is that posts get lost if posted outside this part of the forum. There is too much turnover. Also I think that the debate is being pursued on a different basis there. We have been through an initiation course here of confronting much more systematic and focused debunking than goes on in the rest of the forum,
halva
07-05-2007, 08:10 PM
It is a revelation (a revolution?) that the 911 Truth Movement got such a reception at the United States Social Forum. They have not enjoyed such influence at the Social Forums outside the United States. Americans are clearly more radicalized than the rest of the world!! Hopefully Europeans will notice this.
If we take it in conjunction with Rosalind Peterson's being invited to speak at a UN-organized function, does this look like a trend to you?
halva
07-05-2007, 08:36 PM
The IMO's Scientific Group of the London Convention on Ocean Dumping weighed the problems with Planktos' for-profit iron dump and decided to put such "iron fertilization" efforts on the agenda for the meeting of the full London Convention in November.
The input from Friends of the Earth activists was likely magnitudes greater than any public input previously received by this body.
The Scientific Group expressed concern over "the potential for large-scale ocean iron fertilization to have negative impacts on the marine environment and human health," citing the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)'s finding that "ocean iron fertilization remains largely speculative, and many of the environmental side effects have yet to be assessed." The group indicated it might like to see formal restrictions on such dumping adopted at the November meeting.
Planktos, however, continues to seek investments for its potentially harmful iron dumping. Rest assured, Friends of the Earth will continue its work to expose this misguided for-profit scheme in the press, over the web and with potential investors.
Thank you again for helping Friends of the Earth protect the ocean. Your actions may help motivate changes in international law!
Sincerely,
- Ian Illuminato and Teri Shore
Friends of the Earth
P.S. Iron dumping into the ocean
halva
07-05-2007, 08:38 PM
Any comments Footsoldier??? Friends of the Earth coming out against geoengineering!!!!
halva
07-08-2007, 06:22 AM
It is a revelation (a revolution?) that the 911 Truth Movement got such a reception at the United States Social Forum. They have not enjoyed such influence at the Social Forums outside the United States. Americans are clearly more radicalized than the rest of the world!! Hopefully Europeans will notice this.
If we take it in conjunction with Rosalind Peterson's being invited to speak at a UN-organized function, does this look like a trend to you?
The leftist newspapers in Greece that normally promote the activities of the social forums have given NO COVERAGE WHATSOEVER to last week's US Social Forum in Atlanta.
Dingo
07-08-2007, 06:06 PM
The leftist newspapers in Greece that normally promote the activities of the social forums have given NO COVERAGE WHATSOEVER to last week's US Social Forum in Atlanta.
I think I can guess why. Perhaps they think the issues are being hijacked by a bunch of conspiracy nutcases. The 911 folks ought to get behind something more credible like the existence of Sasquatch/Bigfoot. At least they have a legit star supporting them - Jane Goodall. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NmCmfdFAhQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fsearch%3Fq% 3DJane%2BGoodall%2Bbigfoot%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom%2 Emicrosoft%3Aen%2Dus%3AIE%2DSearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7
halva
07-09-2007, 12:37 AM
It is a potentially explosive revelation in Europe that the Americans are the goodies and the Europeans the baddies.
You are gambling on unreliable allies if you count on the European Social Forum to defend the plausibility of your understanding of events, Dingo. They are more my turf than they are yours and they have no stomach for a real fight on this subject.
I just got in the post today David Ray Griffin's "Debunking 9/11 Debunking". Read it, Dingo. Avoid future embarrassment.
Dingo
07-09-2007, 04:29 AM
It is a potentially explosive revelation in Europe that the Americans are the goodies and the Europeans the baddies.
You are gambling on unreliable allies if you count on the European Social Forum to defend the plausibility of your understanding of events, Dingo. They are more my turf than they are yours and they have no stomach for a real fight on this subject.
I just got in the post today David Ray Griffin's "Debunking 9/11 Debunking". Read it, Dingo. Avoid future embarrassment.
Griffin is a 911 conspiracy idiot who is good at organizing other 911 conspiracy idiots into a grand collection of conspiracy idiots. I've read his stuff and it's same standard shit, just delivered in a slightly tonier fashion.
halva
07-09-2007, 06:08 AM
I knew that this was your position.
halva
07-09-2007, 06:16 AM
French official suggested Bush was behind September 11
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070707/ts_nm/france_sept11_dc_1
PARIS (Reuters) - A senior French politician, now a minister in President Nicolas Sarkozy's government, suggested last year that U.S. President George W. Bush might have been behind the September 11, 2001 attacks, according to a website.
The www.ReOpen911.info website, which promotes September 11 conspiracy theories, has posted a video clip of French Housing Minister Christine Boutin appearing to question that Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda group orchestrated the attacks. Boutin's office sought to play down the remarks.
Asked in an interview last November, before she became minister, whether she thought Bush might be behind the attacks, Boutin says: "I think it is possible. I think it is possible."
Boutin backs her assertion by pointing to the large number of people who visit websites that challenge the official line over the September 11 strikes against U.S. cities.
"I know that the websites that speak of this problem are websites that have the highest number of visits ... And I tell myself that this expression of the masses and of the people cannot be without any truth."
Boutin's office sought to play down the remarks, saying that later in the same interview she says: "I'm not telling you that I adhere to that position." This comment does not appear on the video clip on ReOpen911.
Numerous other websites have also posted the clip in recent days and the story has started to seep into the mainstream media.
"Christine Boutin snared by her controversial suggestions about September 11," Le Monde newspaper said in a headline.
Liberation newspaper on Saturday quoted Boutin's spokesman Christian Dupont as saying that she had not wanted to appear pro or anti-Bush at a time when Sarkozy was being branded a "U.S. poodle" after meeting the president in Washington.
"And then she is not the foreign minister," Dupont added.
France appears to be particularly fertile ground for conspiracy theories. In 2002, a book that claimed that no airliner hit the U.S. Pentagon in the September 11 attacks topped the French bestseller lists.
However, the French are not alone in their skepticism.
According to a Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll carried out last July, more than one-third of Americans suspect U.S. officials helped in the September 11 attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could later go to war.
The U.S. State Department has rejected these accusations.
Almost 3,000 people died when hijackers crashed planes into New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.
Dingo
07-09-2007, 10:38 PM
Wow, a French politician thinks Bush was behind 911. I guess that pretty well confirms it doesn't it Pastry Man? :D
halva
07-10-2007, 06:11 AM
What ethnic stereotypes can be enlisted by American Social Forum activists now to shame their European counterparts out of their treachery? That is my problematic, Dingo. If you want the kind of argument you appear to want about 911, go and argue with Bubba.
halva
07-10-2007, 09:01 AM
UK Denies Evidence Of
Widespread Illegal Chemtrail
Aerosol Operations
7-8-7
http://www.rense.com/general77/widesp.htm
DERBYSHIRE, UK *- Following the submission of a report, backed by over 20 signatories from diverse backgrounds, detailing widespread illegal and unacknowledged aerosol spraying from aircraft, UK agencies have ignored or denied the significant data it presented. Copies of the report were sent to UK Greenpeace, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), The Royal Air Force, DEFRA and, sometime after, to the UK World-Wide Fund for Nature, challenging them to investigate the data themselves. Four responses were received and all of them have denied the basic science presented in the report, which was backed up by the clear evidence.
(PR Web) * An independent lay researcher, with a background in Software Engineering, from Derbyshire, UK, has continued to try and draw attention to the report he compiled which documents ongoing illegal aerosol spraying activities which could be affecting our climate, our health or both.
In May 2007, a previous Press Release http://www.prweb.com//releases/2007/5/prweb527358.htm described how he had sent copies of this report to several UK Agencies.
Andrew Johnson said that, "It has been an interesting exercise. Though the responses from official bodies have been largely as expected, I have been gratified and surprised by the response of a number of people from all around the world."
Since submitting the report in May 2007, Johnson said that he has received responses from DEFRA, The Department of Transport, the UK World-Wide Fund for Nature and the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA). He said "The response from DEFRA was a 1-page flat denial, stating that what I was describing was ordinary contrails. They did not refer to any sections of the report, nor did they attempt to explain any of the data it presented. I had already included in the report that I would not accept such a flat denial and suggested that, if that was the sort of response they were intending to make, then they would be better sending nothing. This is another strong indication they did not even read the report." The response came from the "Customer Contact Unit" and Johnson said "I wrote back to them explaining again that a simple 'denial' type of response was not acceptable. I also wrote that I did not consider myself a 'customer' of DEFRA * after all, I hadn't bought anything from them."
Johnson said that he was surprised to receive a response from The Department of Transport, "I did not send a copy to the Department of Transport (DoT), but in their response they said that the report had been forwarded to them for comment by DEFRA Ministers. The DoT response was by far the most comprehensive, and referenced one specific section of my report, so it seemed they had actually read it.
They included reference to a Scientific Paper about Persistent Aircraft Trails, written in 2005 by Professor Ulrich Schumann of the Institute of Atmospheric Physics. I studied this report in some detail and could not really find anything that was specifically relevant to the data in my own report * such as how grids and parallel lines are formed.
The Schumann Paper talks about contrail formation being possibly linked to cirrus cloud formation, but states there is no proven link between them. It does indeed discuss persistent "contrails" but does not explain why they form and the duration of their persistence is not discussed in detail or with any empirical data.
In particular, my attention was drawn to 2 figures in the report: the standard contrail duration of maximum 2 minutes (with which I have no argument) and also the discussion of regions of ice supersaturation. It states that ice supersaturation in the atmosphere may be the cause of persistent contrail formation, but no firm link is documented or established. Indeed, a figure of 150 km is quoted for the maximum size of a region of ice supersaturation. However, I have measured chemtrails that are over 300 km long."
Johnson explained that, after reviewing Prof Schumann's Paper, "I e-mailed a copy of my report, along with these and other comments to Professor Schumann, but so far, I have received no response." Johnson responded to the DoT and CAA asking that, if their assertions were correct and the chemtrails were just contrails, it must mean that the picture of the "grid" he took in 2005 and the 42 aircraft he recorded leaving persistent trails over a period of 212 hours on Feb 4th 2007 must be ordinary air traffic. He therefore asked if they could please supply flight data for these days? "As I have videoed the actual aircraft from 4th of Feb and have the files time-stamped on a disk, I can prove they flew over the place where I was. I have received no response to this request so far."
There has been interest and support expressed from around the world, Johnson has found. "During the week after I first posted the report, I received a number of complimentary messages from around the world, which was a pleasant surprise. It seems that more people are aware of and concerned about this issue than I thought".
Brian from Ontario, Canada also contacted Andrew with information regarding chemtrail identification, "I have put together this webpage http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/spreading.html for people in the USA which helps them to identify Chemtrails.
One important consideration, for example is that most commercial aircraft are tracked by the FAA within the U.S. Other countries may have similar tracking programs and in turn make that tracking data available to the public via tracking programs such as 'FlightAware' and 'Flight Explorer' in near real time.
If the aircraft that you have observed do not show up on these tracking programs then you must assume that they are exempt from being tracked. Only military type aircraft, and some Government aircraft are exempt from tracking. That should cause many questions to be asked as it is against FAA regulations as well as military flight regulations for any large body jet aircraft to conduct operations, manoeuvres, or training exercises over populated civilian areas without notification by the Secretary of Defence ninety days prior to any such operation - and only then with the express permission of the Governor(s) of the affected state(s), unless National Security is at issue."
Johnson said "I was grateful that Brian has contacted me with this information - I have come across a similar tracking system which is available in the UK called the SBS-1 but this is quite expensive to buy." John from Australia said "I have been following this issue for some time and have been videoing our local skies for 3 months I think the Greens really need to look at this but so far here it has fallen on deaf ears and the other parties deny it."
Susan from Arizona also contacted Johnson to say "I have tracked [chemtrails] here in northern Arizona for the past two years, where skies are normally a bright, clear blue (or at least they used to be) for most days of the year. The chemtrails have increased and become far worse over the past several years, along with extreme changes in local climate and environment. Respiratory problems are virtually epidemic and long-lasting."
halva
07-10-2007, 09:02 AM
James from Exeter said "I agree 100% with your views and conclusions. I have taken digital camera pictures of these unmarked aircraft spraying overhead, sometimes as many as thirty or more aircraft in a very short time, spraying in a grid pattern it seems, and have looked up some mornings to find an X marks the spot in the sky overhead - looks like a St. Andrews cross. I have a large pair of binoculars 80 x 20's , but even with these there are no markings on these aircraft. I have seen a couple of aircraft with what look like extra tanks under the fuselage. So, yes we are being sprayed. I'm so pleased to see someone that is voicing the concerns I've had for a while now."
John from Kelso (Scotland) also wrote to say "Chemtrails first caught my attention after reading an article in about 1998/99, and to be honest at that time in the UK I was not seeing any, so I just dismissed the idea as something that was happening in the US. In 2002, I was leaving my nephew's house in North Shields Tyne & Wear to come home and from the main road near the Tyne Tunnel and I could see in the distance a huge X in the sky. I have since taken many photos and videos of this phenomenon."
Rosalind from California wrote "We believe, that the program here in Northern California and Arizona dates back to 1988 or 1989. We believe that there may have been experiments prior to this date... however, technology and funding became available on a massive scale in the late 1980s."
Andrew Johnson added "Rosalind also kindly sent quite a few related documents that she has obtained, though I simply have not had chance to study them yet."
Caroline, a Financial Consultant, from Surrey, UK also described her own thoughts and experiences, "I do not believe that any government-sponsored scientist has or will be sanctioned to look into all the evidence relating to chemtrails with the depth that you, I and many other private individuals have. Any scientists who may feel that chemtrails should be investigated would, I think, have to consider the 80 untimely and unexplained deaths of some of the world's top scientists that have taken place since 1994. DEFRA has not and will not act impartially and has, I consider, erroneously decided to accept scientific discussion as fact rather than theory. One must wonder why there was not one time lapse experiment undertaken (or reported on if undertaken) when this economical way of confirming facts could quickly turn a theory into a proven point. I do feel that time is of the utmost importance with regards to halting these chemtrails, at least until a full and open public enquiry has taken place."
Mark, a Rail Worker in the West Midlands, has recently written an article regarding his observations about the Chemtrailing activity in which he says...
"During the summer of 2006, my attention was directed to unusual cloud formations that were becoming a frequent and alarming feature of the daytime skies over the Wolverhampton area of the West Midlands, UK where I live. On a sunny Saturday afternoon in July 2006, I actually witnessed the entire vista was filled with criss-crossed and checkerboard patterns constructed of thick, milky white lines of cloud. I have been an aviation enthusiast for as long as I can remember, and maintain what I consider to be a good working familiarity with most types of civilian and military aircraft. The aircraft I saw appeared to be of three types, two larger types of the KC-135 (a derivative of the Boeing 707) and Boeing KC 767 (the military tanker version of the Boeing 767) varieties, and a smaller and faster type which recalled the configuration of a McDonnell Douglas MD-80. These aircraft were all flying at high speed, and initially deposited thin, white trails in their wakes. It was also patently obvious that the patterns visible above were being constructed to some kind of design."
It is therefore clear that a wide range of people are aware that the spraying is going on, and basic science proves it is really happening. The question has to be asked, then, how do we proceed and obtain answers to has authorised this spraying and what is its purpose? In summary, Johnson comments, "I see this as a stage in the process of getting both Governmental Organisations and Non-Governmental Organisations to look at this issue realistically and responsibly. The research of many people and the report I compiled proves the issue is real, even though we don't know who is responsible for the spraying.
Anyone who has an interest in protecting our environment should be looking at this issue and asking questions. The official responses I have received so far have done nothing, realistically, to refute or correct any of the data or overall conclusions I included, disturbing though they are.
Perhaps the main problem is that it is difficult for us all to accept, in the face of everything else we are told (about things like global warming, for example), that something like this is really going on. I think we must therefore continually apply pressure in various places so that we can get more answers. I strongly encourage everyone to try and do something to increase awareness of this. Write to government and environmental agencies (especially if you are a member) and send them copies of the report, or any other data on Chemtrailing which you feel is important."
Most of the responses that Andrew Johnson has received, both official and unofficial, can be viewed online here:
http://www.checktheevidence.com/Chemtrails/OfficialResponses/
or using this shorter link: http://tinyurl.com/yugavz
The original report submitted can be viewed, online at http://www.checktheevidence.com/Chemtrails/ or using this shorter link: http://tinyurl.com/2w8ytk/ Johnson actively encourages all interested parties to contact him for any required clarification or further information required.
halva
07-11-2007, 07:43 AM
Here are some comments from a Finnish activist:
True, there has been almost nothing about the US Social Forum in the
European mass media. The same goes for the mass media in the USA. I was
there. As many of us have already said: it was an inspiring and
hoperaising event. I concentrated on the library aspect (some of that
covered in my blog). But I also participated in a workshop on the
re-opening of the 911 investigation, and in the closing plenary sessions
on Sunday 1 July, where a representatative of the 911 Truth Movement read
a statement - that we need to have "a new independent and international
investigation on the causes and circumstances surrounding the events of
September 11, 2001".
This demand is supported by many people, citizens and intellectuals of the
USA and other countries. Whether France's Housing Minister Christine
Boutin supports it, I do not know. She would certainly not be the first,
if she would. For instance Michael Meacher, former minister for the
environment of the Blair government, adn Andreas von Buelow, German
ex-minister of Technology, who is also a renowned expert on state
intelligence, certainly do support the demand for a re-opening of the
investigation.
After the closing plenary of the US Social Forum, I went to the stand of
the 911Truth Movement to get a paper copy of the statement I had just
heard. Then I walked around for a while among the thousands of social
activists at the Civic Center of Atlanta -- a very colourful and
heterogeneous bunch of people, by the way. I took some of them apart,
showed them the statement, asked them to read it and say what they thought
about it. In this way, I might have talked with perhaps six, perhaps eight
persons, none of whom I had ever met before. It turned out that all of
these persons agreed. Yes, there should be a new independent and
international investigation!
So do I.
I want to add something about the 911-truth-workshop I took part in. It
was chaired by Janice Matthews, one of the leaders of the 911 Truth
movement in the USA. A very good moderator, by the way, besides being a
courageous citizen, a mother of six kids etc. . There, I learned that at
least one of the presidential condidates, Mr Dennis Kucinich, is taking up
the case. I also heard some other actualities. However, I did not hear
anything important that I would not already have read from
http://www.9111truth.org, http://www.911blogger.com/ etc. One episode
remains on my mind, though. That was when the guy sitting next to me
asked for the floor to present his own theory. And that really was one of
those crazy conspiracy theories! He spoke about the Illuminati, "The
Protocols of the Elders of Zion" ("an antisemitic text that purports to
describe a Jewish plot to achieve world domination" - Wikipedia), and what
not. This man could have been a government provocateur for all I know.
However, the curious thing is that nobody in the hall, including myself,
did stand up to ask him to stop giving us this shit. Why so?
Here is my advice as a library actvist. If you want to form your own
opinion on the thorny issue of the causes and circumstances of the
911-crimes (because crimes they were, whoever planned and committed them),
you should read 1) the official "9/11 Report", by Thomas H.Kean and Lee H.
Hamilton, and 2) "The 9/11 Commission Report. Omissions and Distortions",
by David Ray Griffin.
Those are not very nice things to read about. In case you need something
to cheer yourself up with, how about that old "Candide" book, for
instance?
Dingo
07-11-2007, 05:44 PM
Here are some comments from a Finnish activist:
One more well spoken nutcase. There is a reason that conspiracy nonsense is so widely spread. Human beings are not primarily truth seeking animals. Much of our nuttiness is imbedded right in our genes. Tribes that were more paranoid than other tribes wiped out the less paranoid tribes and thus passed on their greater paranoid genes to subsequent generations.
Human beings are sensible about things that effect their ability to spawn future gene carriers of theirs. Jumping off a cliff is something people seldom do because it cuts off the genetic line. Those who did take the plunge disappeared from the gene pool. People are very sensible on such matters, or our genes are selective for such good sense. Believing in nutcase conspiracy theories on the other hand works just the opposite. The CT paranoids develop strong supportive survival feelings which bonds them into tighter genetically productive groups that has the added advantage of undermining the scapegoat target group, thereby cutting down on their relative fecundity. In the gene wars the nutcase conspirators come out winners commonly. That's why there are so many of them. :rolleyes:
halva
07-11-2007, 09:35 PM
Check back on some of the postings of Jay Reynolds on this thread, Dingo, and blush for your ineptitude as a debunker. For a start, you are entirely reactive and defensive. You never attack. You have zero ability to undermine the self-confidence and security of the opponent. You cannot "go over the top" yourself for you are afraid of appearing a lunatic, a fatal weakness.
You have also, violated the number one rule of debunking: i.e. never be sincere!
halva
07-13-2007, 04:22 AM
Where are people seeing "chemtrails"?
Show your position on the map
http://www.chemtrails911.com/docs/-%202007/MapFeature.htm
Dingo
07-13-2007, 04:41 AM
Check back on some of the postings of Jay Reynolds on this thread, Dingo, and blush for your ineptitude as a debunker. For a start, you are entirely reactive and defensive. You never attack. You have zero ability to undermine the self-confidence and security of the opponent. You cannot "go over the top" yourself for you are afraid of appearing a lunatic, a fatal weakness.
You have also, violated the number one rule of debunking: i.e. never be sincere!
My accuracy kicks your ass. :D
jayreynolds
07-13-2007, 07:00 AM
Where are people seeing "chemtrails"?
Show your position on the map
http://www.chemtrails911.com/docs/-%202007/MapFeature.htm
Wayne, I notice that "chemtrails911" is touting "Jim Phelps" as one of it's experts.
http://www.chemtrails911.com/docs/The%20Science%20of%20Air%20Pharmacology.html
Way to go old bean, just the sort of discrediting stuff we like to see put into fake 'chemtrail'
websites.
Once a rational person sees this sort of hogwash, they move along noting that the person behind the website is just another nutcase.
As always, your check is in the mail!
Best regards to all my appenfages, and congratulations for all that you do to distract and entertain.
Jay
halva
07-13-2007, 07:09 AM
I am not in love with "chemtrails 911". They do not appear to be realpoliticians.
But I don't know of any other site providing this mapping service. Do you?
halva
07-13-2007, 07:12 AM
Here is Michael Albert's take on the US Social Forum:
USSF - 2007 and After.
> by Michael Albert
>
> At the US Social Forum 2007, in the city that hosts CNN and Coke, in
> hotel venues where debutantes ironically were on parade, the
> progressive community stood tall and steadfast, proud and capable. The
> forum's over 900 sessions were truly diverse in those presenting and
> those attending. Indeed, I cannot remember - going all the way back to
> an also highly diverse Black Panther Party Constitutional Convention
> held in Philadelphia in September 1970 - any other large leftist event
> in the U.S. as consistently multi-cultural as USSF 2007. More, I can
> remember very few that were as gender and sexuality balanced. And the
> USSF 2007 even had youth in abundance, a feature sorely lacking in
> recent activist conferences.
>
> I spent most of my time at the conference following two main themes:
> SDS and Solidarity Economics. SDS, standing for Students for a
> Democratic Society, was re-born a bit over a year ago and has been
> growing rapidly since. At the USSF perhaps 75 of its members were
> present and they did a few sessions as well as attending many others.
> What I saw of them gave me great hope, and it was informed hope, I
> think, not Pollyanna hope. To start, they had a couple of sessions on
> intergenerational organizing, one of which I attended. The panel had
> six participants, three from today's SDS and three from SDS and the
> Panthers from decades ago. The latter group were quite excellent, I
> thought, which was quite an achievement because as they themselves
> wisely and comprehensively noted, when you put together a bunch of
> activists from back then, with all their baggage - not to mention the
> residues of confused allegiances born then and in many cases barely
> transcended since - you often get something unseemly or even downright
> ugly. But not with these three participants; they were eloquent,
> moving, and self critically humble. But even so, the other three folks
> on the panel, the three SDS members from today, trumped the old
> timers. The youth could reasonably be expected to have more buzz and
> jazz, more energy and militancy. But that wasn't their only advantage.
> They seemed also to have more sense of themselves, and especially more
> sense of the tasks that now need doing. They seemed intent on
> unrelentingly mastering whatever approaches are required to succeed. I
> don't know where they have accumulated the wisdom and confidence they
> seem to embody, and I don't want to imply there aren't problems as
> well, but hope is birthing anew with these young folks.
>
> SDS also participated in a panel put on by the War Resisters League on
> what it would take for the anti war movement to end the war in Iraq.
> This had an SDS member as the moderator, asking questions. The
> panelists - I think there were seven - would reply to the questions
> asked, and would then discuss them with each other, and then field a
> new question. The panelists represented a range of major antiwar
> organizations, vets against the war, UFPJ, Witness for Peace, etc.
> Among them they must have had over a hundred and fifty years of left
> organizing experience. Nonetheless, it was both sad but also inspiring
> to realize that the host's questions were beyond their ken. Each
> question, well conceived, succinctly put, and utterly on target
> regarding movement problems and possibilities, was focused on
> developing overarching strategy in accord with both needs and assets.
> Questions that should have been familiar fare for highly experienced
> panelists elicited long pauses, often with a little chuckling before
> anyone would hazard a reply. Replies, when they came, often had
> insightful content but also repeatedly side-stepped the questions.
> What was going on was a new generation intent on very seriously and
> ruthlessly evaluating what we have done so as to find problems that
> can be corrected to actually win change rather than simply fight the
> good fight and lose, met representatives of movement organizations
> that for too long have narrowly attended to day to day pressures
> without adopting an overarching viewpoint. Further, of the panelists,
> the one who had the least prior political background, an Iraq war vet,
> seemed to be most in tune with the motives of the moderator. The hope,
> again, seemed to reside with the young, as it hasn't for quite a few
> decades now. This is very good news.
>
halva
07-13-2007, 07:13 AM
My second substantial involvement was with a group sponsoring a set of
> sessions around what they call Solidarity Economics or SE. SE is a
> large umbrella project that exists around the world, most notably in
> Latin America and Southern Europe. Recently, roughly a dozen folks
> have begun spiritedly trying to bring SE to the United States.
> Solidarity Economics, as defined abroad and imported here, seeks to
> incorporate within its broad network pretty much any project or
> activity that plausibly sees itself as furthering at least one of the
> broad values characterizing the entire SE community. These values
> seem, from presentations and some essays to be solidarity,
> sustainability, equity, participation, diversity, and democracy (or
> perhaps even self management). The idea seems to be that if an effort
> is furthering any of these values; it can become a part of SE. Thus,
> if even a large capitalist firm, for example The Body Shop, is making
> strides in one respected dimension, it can come on board. An
> experiment like participatory budgeting, now operative not only in
> Brazil but in many cities around the world, or alternative currency
> experiments popular in some parts of the U.S. such as upstate New
> York, or a company that claims to engage only in fair trade or to be
> ecologically concerned, can join. And obviously so too can co-ops,
> much less what I would call classless (or pareconish) firms that seek
> internal equity and self management. Finally, within this broad range
> of projects that can reside under the Solidarity Economics umbrella,
> there is not only a degree of shared agenda but, importantly, each
> project is expected to urge others to do better on matters they are
> not yet addressing well.
>
> This idea of a broad community of projects banding together and
> striving to improve economic life seems to me to be a good way of
> developing a sense of shared mission, exploration, and debate among
> folks trying to improve the economy - and one could imagine a similar
> approach on other fronts such as family, culture, and politics, or
> even in more narrow domains, say education, health, science, or art.
> But beyond the benefits, a concern I had, as I listened to this
> fledgling U.S. attempt at SE, was that the desire to retain those
> participants who have most assets, such as larger businesses, will
> cause a severe blunting of forward-oriented discussion regarding what
> a desirable economy ought to be and what steps ought to be undertaken
> now to move toward one. I feared that SE advocate/members would hold
> back on their criticisms of less progressive SE projects, causing
> still flawed and even horrible aspects of larger scale member projects
> to go uncommented for fear of alienating those members. I worried that
> as a byproduct this laxity would produce rationalizations and habits
> that would constrict even the best participants' aspirations and
> finally their thoughts. My own attempt to contribute to the SE
> discussions at USSF 2007 was to urge that participatory economic
> projects that reject private ownership of capital, corporate divisions
> of labor, remuneration for property, power, or output, hierarchical
> decision making, and markets, should be welcome in SE, including
> welcoming pareconists who respectfully point out that real solidarity
> requires fundamental changes, and that small positive steps are truly
> exemplary only insofar as they aid a continuing, diversifying, and
> enlarging process - rather than being end points in themselves.
>
> My detailed involvements with SDS and SE aside, getting back to the
> forum at large, it was noteworthy that there were no stars at the
> USSF, or, to put it more accurately, that there were only stars. The
> forum demonstrated that the old civil rights wisdom that we are the
> leaders we have been waiting for is not only correct, but we are also
> the stars we have been waiting for. And in Atlanta the spectacle of
> 10,000 stars produced a lot of energy.
>
> The component sessions of USSF 2007 were varied and insightful. Panels
> focused on every side of life including economy, polity, race and
> culture, gender and kinship, ecology, war and peace, and international
> relations, and then, within each broad area there were myriads of more
> focused sessions addressing everything from housing to taxes, income
> distribution to prisons, legislation to demonstrations, education to
> art, Iraq to Venezuela to Palestine, and much more.
>
> It is a monumental understatement to say that the organizers deserve
> great thanks for the scope and quality of their efforts. Attendees
> also deserve praise for travelling to Atlanta, heat and all,
> overcoming the feeling that "this gathering won't be worth it, this is
> the U.S., after all, and it can't happen here." In 2007, to have hope,
> faith, fire, and passion, is not the movement norm. Indeed, I am
> embarrassed to admit that I was almost in the camp that didn't go to
> Atlanta for USSF 2007, but hope prevailed, and I ultimately went - and
> hope was borne out.
>
> Still, accolades for the organizers aside, in a commentary for
> activists what always matters most is not praising ourselves, however
> deserved the praise may be, but finding problems that we can correct
> to do better next time. And while I think the faults of USSF 2007 had
> little or nothing to do with the organizers' efforts, there were,
> nonetheless, at least a few faults for us all to work on fixing in the
> future.
>
> There were 900 sessions in three days and I can only report on the
> relatively few sessions I could attend, look in on, or at least hear
> about from others. My impressions, therefore, may be artifacts of a
> narrow experience, and if they are wrong on that account, or any
> other, my apologies.
>
halva
07-13-2007, 07:14 AM
First, in nearly all the sessions I attended or heard about, those
> presenting were from diverse race, gender, and sometimes even class
> backgrounds, with wide age variance too. This was also the case for
> audiences, which for all but a particular subset of the sessions were
> often even a majority people of color. The subset of sessions that
> were differently composed, however, was troubling. Thus, a panel on
> getting beyond neoliberalism, though diverse in its speakers'
> backgrounds had a nearly entirely white audience. The same was true
> for panels I spoke at or attended on economic vision, on strategy for
> the anti-war movement, and on directions for alternative media. I
> heard as well that this was true for many panels that were explicitly
> and primarily on vision or even strategy including crossing bounds of
> specific focuses. In contrast, sessions I attended or heard reports
> about that addressed more pinpointed areas of concern and conflict,
> whether it was housing, water, income, or Katrina, were a majority and
> sometimes a large majority people of color. The only way to
> distinguish sessions from one another was by their titles. The
> schedule didn't tell who was presenting at each session, though it did
> indicate a sponsoring organization. In any case, as best I could
> discern, the issue wasn't the composition of panelists, which was
> almost universally culture- and gender-balanced. The issue was the
> topics the panels addressed. My impression, admittedly anecdotal, was
> that when the focus was overtly about longer term vision and strategy
> and exploring direction and methods for the left writ large, the
> audience became more white. In contrast, when the focus highlighted
> specific currently pressing economic and social problems, including
> their roots and implications and also how to address them right now,
> the people of color representation was higher.
>
> One possible explanation for this is that the people of color
> constituencies were correct in staying away from the broader sessions
> because attention to broader matters of goals and strategies for large
> movements have typically been hot air largely or even wholly unrelated
> to actual conditions and possibilities that people can act on, and
> therefore not worth one's time. But another possibility is that such
> explorations aren't, or shouldn't be, hot air. Due to being centrally
> important, they should be centrally insightful and relevant both to
> the long and to the short term. If so, we are left with the problem of
> improving vision and strategy discussions including expanding their
> range of sponsorship and participants. If, as I believe is the case,
> vision and strategy are essential, then we should respond to poor past
> efforts in those directions with more and better new efforts, not
> less. Additionally, potential participants who bring to the table
> diverse comprehension both of what we now endure and also of what
> better relations we desire, need to be involved at every level -
> whether we are talking about working people, women, gays, people of
> color, or young people. For activists repelled by irrelevance and
> academic posturing to avoid overarching vision and strategy reminds me
> a bit of activists repelled by authoritarianism leaving overarching
> vision and strategy to Leninists on grounds that vision and strategy
> writ large can be hot air, un-rooted, sectarian, authoritarian, and so
> on - thereby increasing rather than diminishing the likelihood that
> vision and strategy will have all those flaws.
>
> Another pattern, also familiar from other social forums and also in
> part correct and sensible, but at the same time also in part self
> defeating, was the extent to which people coming to share experiences
> were overwhelmingly interested mostly or even only in their own
> priority concerns. Housing activists frequented, at least in my
> anecdotal polling and querying, housing panels. Women doing feminist
> work frequented feminist panels. Young SDSers frequented SDS panels.
> Coming from New Orleans tended to cause one to spend more time on
> Katrina sessions. With a background of years spent working on ending
> the war, one attended mostly or even only anti war panels.
>
> On the one hand, what could be more sensible then this kind of
> specialization? All social forums are massive gatherings of folks
> often separated by great distance, or even just by lack of connection
> within a shared city. Attendees go to the forum largely to get
> information, ideas, and connections that will aid the work they do.
> Attendees thus focus their energies on the sessions related to the
> work they do, feeling that these are the sessions where they can meet
> others with related ideas, learn of possible new ways to tackle
> problems they face, find help, etc. On the other hand, however, if a
> main problem for the left as a whole is a mammoth fragmentation and
> unrelenting insularity of contending components, then this pattern of
> being most interested in one's own focused area of involvement
> reproduces our distance from one another, rather than helping to
> overcome it.
>
> Third and last in my little list of hurdles to overcome next time,
> there is the matter of what we want and how we expect to get it. Under
> the surface of USSF-2007's discussions, debates, and celebrations, I
> think it was clear that very nearly everyone attending would be
> ecstatic to become part of a growing, militant movement that not only
> had very clearly green, anti racist, anti sexist, anti heterosexist,
> anti authoritarian, anti imperialist, and anti capitalist politics,
> but that also had very explicitly positive aims on each of those axes
> - a revolutionary movement seeking immediate gains also aimed toward
> transcendent transformation in the future. Yet despite this
> subterranean desire, this sentiment, at least in it most unequivocal
> form, was rarely voiced. It was as if everyone was afraid of the
> R-word: Revolution. How many revolutionaries have to get together,
> congenially, mutually supportively, before we will openly admit what
> we are? At any rate, I would have very much liked to have heard a
> talk, perhaps at the final plenary session, more or less like what I
> offer below, to intellectually and emotively "spin" the event in a way
> that was otherwise, I think, implicit, but not explicit.
>
> So, imagine a speaker at the closing session of a social forum taking
> the microphone and with unrestrained passion addressing the audience
> more or less as follows. On reading it, consider if you agree that
> putting out in the most prominent and aggressive fashion this type of
> sentiment would be a big step forward. If so, let's make it happen,
> repeatedly, at forum after forum, though more eloquently, more
> passionately, and with more insight than the hypothetical words below
> convey.
>
>
> A (Hypothetical) Closing Talk for a Social Forum
>
> Welcome to this incredible final plenary gathering of so many fired up
> people committed to social change. What an incredible sea of
> consciousness and courage. What incredible inspiration we can take
> from our exciting time together. What incredible potential we can see
> here in our allies all around this great hall.
>
> We must be vigorous, self critical, and steadfast, together - but
> where are we going?
>
> We must work together, with assertive force - but how do we reach our
> destination?
>
> We must together advance to our destination - but why?
>
> At this great forum these past few days, I found as I am sure you all
> found too, that there exists an emerging set of shared views on where
> we are going, how we will get there, and why we will make the effort.
> Can we together solidify these emerging shared views into lasting
> unity? Can we solidify these emerging shared views into mutually
> supportive activism that we all commit to? The shared views that can
> unite us, at least as I have heard them shaping up in my travels
> through this forum, might sound something like this, once we all
> together say them aloud:
>
halva
07-13-2007, 07:15 AM
We are trying to create a new and vastly better world for ourselves
> and for our offspring to inhabit.
>
> We are seeking that new world by struggling in every venue that we can
> find and with every ounce of strength we can muster, directing all our
> efforts not only to winning improvements in people lives today but
> also to winning a better world tomorrow.
>
> We are doing it for the memory of those who have gone before, and for
> the well being of those who will come after.
>
> Okay, we can all agree, I suspect, that those are nice sentiments.
> They sound appealing to me and I bet to you too - but wouldn't you
> agree that they are also quite vague? To flexibly assure our unity, we
> need more substance, don't you think?
>
> Maybe when we further unearth our shared agreements, further substance
> will sound more less like this:
>
> We are trying to win a new economy, a new realm of daily life and
> love, a new culture, a new polity, a new ecology, a new
> internationalism, all without hierarchies that condemn some people to
> subordination. We reject roles unsuited for humanity - the role of the
> owner, boss, manager; the role of the patriarch, misogynist,
> homophobe; the role of the racist, religious bigot, fundamentalist;
> the role of the denier, decrier, decider, dictator; the role of
> polluter of air, sea, and land; the role of bombardier, cultural
> commissar, empire expander. Gone with all of that.
>
> We are pursuing this better world that will leave behind these
> horribly oppressive aspects by seeking improvements in people's lives
> right now, from the washed out streets in New Orleans to the porn
> strewn back alleys in Chicago, from the black lunged mines in West
> Virginia to the dignity destroying commercialism of billboards and TV,
> from rural poverty to urban blight, from self-imposed diets seeking
> false beauty to society-imposed diets imposing criminal starvation,
> from the flesh houses of Los Angeles and its glam and glitter to the
> cardboard homes under bridges in Philadelphia, from the miles of AA
> meetings to the miles of local bars, from the capacity crushing
> horrors imposed on eighty percent of our school's students to the
> elite Ivy farms spewing out scholars who lack sense and humanity, from
> the modern slave houses called prisons to the court houses that
> function like auction houses, from elections that are bought and sold
> by rich corporate executives investing in their preferred paths of
> domination to acres and acres of misguided commodity production
> remorselessly destroying our weather and water, from the endless
> skyways of half empty hotels to the endless alley ways of homeless
> children, mothers, and fathers.
>
> We seek more income for the poor, more power for the weak, more status
> for the forlorn, more social ties for the lonely, more responsibility
> for all our crying souls. We seek equitable material well being, self
> managing influence, and mutual fulfillment of all kinds. We seek, as
> well, to ensure that our demands today not only partly redress the
> suffering caused by the world we now inhabit but also move us toward a
> better future in which worldly and spiritual benefits of society reach
> a high level and then persist due to the intrinsic logic of our new
> institutions rather than only when we win against harsh opposition.
>
> And why we are doing all this? We are doing it tirelessly,
> steadfastly, and vigorously, for the memory of revolutionaries and
> visionaries and humanists from history past, for people all around us
> now, and for history's and humanity's future.
>
> Well, okay, that version would be a little better. It certainly has
> some spunk, but I think perhaps we can also agree that beyond its
> passion, it is still mostly sentiment - very nice sentiment, for sure,
> but lacking institutional substance.
>
> Maybe that's just the way it is with speeches, or maybe as we
> collectively address what we share as our vision, strategy, and
> motives, our words will gain some additional depth, some additional
> tissue and fabric, and then maybe our answers to what we are doing,
> how we are doing it, and why we are doing it, might go something like
> this:
>
> We are trying to win a new economy in which there are no classes. No
> one in the better world we seek will own workplaces, resources, or
> other people's ability to do work. There will be no owners of Walmarts
> or Microsofts. There will be no private profits. There will be no wage
> slaves, working under the dictates of others. Further, no one will
> monopolize empowering conditions at work, as doctors, lawyers,
> engineers, and managers so typically do now, and on that account rule
> over those left only menial and obedient tasks. No one will earn
> inequitably whether from property, power, or output. No one will have
> more say over decisions than the fair share that we all are entitled
> to in accord with how much we are affected. There will be no top and
> no bottom of who decides what for whom. There will be no order giver
> and no order taker about production, allocation, or consumption. There
> will be no class responsible for decisions while another class is
> suppressed and responsible only to obey. We will all be elevated to
> use our fullest capacities and express our fullest desires, rather
> than most of us learning only to endure boredom and to obey orders
> showered down on us by the anointed masters of all that occurs. Our
> new economy will be classless, at last. Out with the old boss - and
> out with any new boss, too. We will enjoy a participatory economy,
> operating as one part of a participatory society.
>
> But our project is not just about economics - we are not economistic.
> We realize that life is not working and consuming alone. For example,
> we are trying to win a new polity too, that will incorporate the will
> of all citizens in legislation, that will adjudicate disputes to
> produce justice, that will respond to violations to attain
> rehabilitation and liberation rather than vengeance and retribution.
> Our new polity will have citizens of diverse age, belief, experience,
> and knowledge, but will not have rulers and ruled. We are not merely
> seeking new Presidents and Senators because we understand that our
> political problem is government by a few - not simply the oddities of
> any particular few who happen to be prowling around the White House
> and Senate at any particular moment. We won't have political choices
> mediated by dollar bills but by the will of informed citizens, each
> with equal rights and comparable means. We will have in our new
> society's new polity, participatory democracy and self management. We
> won't have information conveyed by agents of corporate power. We will
> have education, communication, and popular participation that together
> prepare all citizens to be full participants in social life and
> decision making. We will build and responsibly contribute to
> assemblies that express our informed desires for legislation allowing
> us to self manage our political and social life. We will build media
> that conveys expert information so we can function wisely. We will
> adopt decision methods that apportion influence over outcomes to those
> affected in proportion as they are affected so that we collectively
> self manage our conditions and projects. We might well call all this
> participatory politics, one more part of our new participatory
> society.
>
halva
07-13-2007, 07:16 AM
Beyond economy and polity, however, we are trying as well to win a new
> realm of sexuality, nurturance, socialization, and daily life. Do the
> roots of sexism reside in nuclear marriage as we know it? Do they stem
> from a gender division of labor that is women mothering and men
> fathering rather than both parenting? Is sexism born in a disparity in
> who does caretaking work and who doesn't? Are there other roots of
> sexism, other structures that continually toss misogyny up into our
> lives, reproducing its contours year in and year out, and thereby
> subverting our potentials for sharing and caring? Whatever the roots
> of patriarchy are, whatever produces and reproduces sexism, it will
> all be transcended in a new world. Sexism will be only a memory in the
> new world we will win and celebrate. Will we need communal living
> arrangements, new modes of parenting, new ways of apportioning the
> labors of life, all even beyond the obvious need for fair and free
> access for women to all positions in society? If we do, then that's
> the feminism we must and will achieve in our new participatory
> society. If something more or other is needed, then that too will be
> done. We will have participatory kinship, participatory living, in our
> new participatory society, nothing less is acceptable.
>
> We are trying to win a new culture, as well, that celebrates cultural
> diversity while defending each community's every participant. Our
> preferred new society will include social structures and relations
> that welcome spirituality and religious sentiment even as our new
> approaches escape the strictures of fundamentalism of all kinds and
> respect atheism as well. In our new society, we will all still
> celebrate, communicate, identify, and forge ways of seeing and
> understanding ourselves and our communities - but we will do it with
> mutual respect, taking pleasure not only in our own solutions but in
> admiring, learning from, and enjoying the rich variety of other
> people's solutions too. We will choose our cultural communities
> freely, move among them as we choose, and refine and enrich our ties
> to them over the course of our lives. Racism, religious bigotry,
> ethnocentrism, and all kinds of self identification based on or
> presupposing the inferiority and subordination of others will have
> become a thing of the past, and our ways of constructing our
> communities and the institutions we adopt in our new cultural
> relations will have to respect, abide, and propel that outcome. New
> cultural institutions, that is, will guard the rights and norms of all
> communities, but particularly of the smaller in disputes with the
> larger. The name for all this might be multiculturalism or perhaps
> intercommunalism, another leg for our new participatory society to
> stand on.
>
> We seek a greener world too, but not just sustainability. We are not
> content with the idea that the best we can do is to avoid suicide,
> which is what sustainability literally mandates. Rather, in our
> participatory society not only will our culture and daily life respect
> our natural environment, but our legislation will freely and
> effectively protect it and our economy will properly discern its
> interconnections and their value. Likewise, even beyond our own
> shores, we seek a community of countries that goes beyond being at
> peace to attain a condition of mutual benefit. We will have war no
> more - of course - but we will not dispense with global ties. On the
> contrary, we will enrich and extend global ties so that countries
> freely share their lessons and virtues, protect one another from harm,
> and exchange not according to competitive norms that ensure that trade
> benefits accrue mostly to whoever is richer and more powerful, but
> instead exchange in a way that always reduces disparities in wealth
> and power. In the time-honored tradition of our predecessors, we can
> call this internationalism, but it is ultimately just participatory
> societies participating in cooperative solidarity with one another.
>
> But how do we win all this, that's the question, isn't it? We know we
> must. We know we will. But how? Of course, we only know some things
> about this massive question - the rest will be revealed only in the
> clash and jangle of struggles and constructions as we pursue the road
> forward. But, even now, there are some insights we can commit to, as
> we develop and share more.
>
> In our future there will be participatory self management via worker
> and consumer councils in the economy, via people's assemblies in the
> polity, and via new personal and collective arrangements in culture
> and in kinship as well. We can't grow that kind of future
> participation using movements that are harshly hierarchical. No more
> of that. We can't attain equitable remuneration, self management,
> classlessness, women and men in partnership, sexual liberation,
> political participation, wide dispersal of information, cultural
> intercommunalism, a wise relation to nature, and internationalism, if
> we use movement vehicles that incorporate the ills of the present. No
> more of that. We can't have racism, sexism, or classism in our
> movements. No more, no more.
>
> We will win a better world by winning sequences of improvements in
> people's lives within existing society which also win our movements
> ever more consciousness, ever more commitment, and ever more
> infrastructure of struggle, until they are powerful and wise enough to
> win not solely modest elixirs for pain, but also the infrastructure of
> full freedom and liberation.
>
> We can't create a society of sharing souls by having fragmented,
> alienated movements. We can't generate responsibility and initiative
> with movements that denigrate and debilitate. We can't sustain
> participation with movements that are as oppressive as society at
> large - indeed we can't win with these flaw in our movements since
> winning entails a movement of perhaps a hundred million involved
> participant leaders. Without movements that give their participants
> better lives than they would have outside, more friends, more love,
> more dignity, more empowerment, more knowledge, more confidence, we
> can't win. So we must create such movements.
>
> We can't use anti democratic means to produce democratic results. We
> can't use anti egalitarian norms to produce equitable distribution. We
> can't use authoritarian culture and conceptions to produce
> participation. We can't maintain soul wrecking values much less
> elitist and egocentric behaviors to produce intercommunalism.
>
> We need to have our eyes on the real prize which is to enlarge
> membership, enlarge consciousness, enlarge commitment, and enlarge
> infrastructure, all consistent with our long term aims and not solely
> our short run priorities and tactics.
>
> And finally, as we close out this social forum together, and as we
> further refine and enrich our shared views in coming months and years,
> for whom do we commit to this mammoth task, this revolutionary
> pursuit?
>
> We do it for workers on the line, bored, tired, impoverished, and
> robbed of their creative days. No more Maggie's Farm for us,
> insteadcsslessness.
halva
07-13-2007, 07:17 AM
> We do it for women door-opened, pinched, decultured, feminized,
> impoverished, beaten, raped, advertised, psychologized, ball and
> chained. No more hustle and no more Hustler for us, instead Feminism.
>
> We do it for Blacks, Latinos, Native Americans, Asians.nameless,
> robbed of dignity and means, legally lynched, harassed, low paid,
> running, jailed. No more plantations in the midst of plenty for us,
> instead Intercommunalism.
>
> We do it for the drunks and addicts, the worn out and the never
> lively, for the old and ill who should be long lived and wise, for the
> forgotten, the dispossessed, the lonely.
>
> For the young, schooled and unschooled, enduring boredom, sniffing
> glue, stealing sex and losing love, trying to escape or trying to find
> a way in, whether they exist under a massive thumb or are trying to
> grow a massive thumb with which to hold down others.
>
> We do it for those on welfare or off it, looking into the mall or
> looking out from it, employed or unemployed, alone or crowded beyond
> sanity, hiding their sex or flaunting it, angry, sad, or mad.
>
> We do it for all those who feel less than they could feel, for all
> those who have been made less than they could be in this rich land,
> the United States - and -
>
> We do it for the Colombian, Paraguayan, Guatemalan, Haitian, South
> African, Congolese, Liberian, Sudanese, Iraqi, Iranian, Palestinian,
> Pakistani, Indian, Thai, Malaysian, and Chinese exploited, robbed,
> starved, cheated, tortured, ambushed, kidnapped, and death-squadded.
>
> We do it for all the world's citizens suffering the brutality and
> indignity of electric shocks and murdered relatives, suffering secret
> or public bombs, suffering Guantanamos and Abu Ghriabs, suffering
> poverty and even starvation, suffering the military boot and the
> cultural stamp.
>
> We do it for the empire's citizens, proud but beleaguered, and also
> for the empire's enemies, our forebears:
>
> We do it for the strikers, the saboteurs, the feminists and
> anarchists, the Marxists and nationalists, for those with no ideology
> but liberty, and for those who had too much ideology as well.
>
> We do it for the memory of Che and the Cuban freedom fighters - we
> will be "guided by great feelings of love."
>
> We do it for the memory of Amilcar Cabral and the liberation of Africa
> - we will "tell no lies and claim no easy victories."
>
> We do it for the memory of Rosa Luxembourg and the revolutionaries of
> Europe - we will move, and therein we will notice and break our
> chains.
>
> We do it for the memory of Alexandra Kollantai and Russians in revolt
> - we will not only create direct means of popular rule, we will
> preserve, revere, and utilize them.
>
> We do it for Emma Goldman and the anarchists in struggle - we will
> dance on our way to, on our arrival at, and in celebration of our new
> world.
>
> We do it for Simone de Beauvoir and feminists everywhere - we will
> accept no biological, psychological, or economic fate deterring women
> in our future.
>
> We do it for Ho and the Vietnamese, the Vietnamese who yesterday
> taught us all, and who will have their day too, around the corner,
> over the hill, when we win the world we all desire.
>
> We do it for r Martin Luther King Jr. - his mountain is our mountain,
> his vision looking into uncharted mists will become our daily
> pleasure, surrounding us during each breath of our lives. We will win
> for Martin too.
>
> We do it for Fannie Lou Hamer and the Civil Righters, for Dave
> Dellinger and the new leftists, for Fred Hampton and the Panthers, for
> Cesar Chavez and the farmworkers, for Lolita Lebrón and the Puerto
> Rican nationalists, for Leonard Peltier and the fighters in AIM, and
> for all the fine souls who resisted and died in the past and who
> nonetheless live on.
>
> We do it for the young who dodged the draft. For the young who went to
> war and disrupted. For the young who went and died - or lived. For the
> Vietnam Veterans against war, and especially for the Iraq Veterans
> against war.
halva
07-13-2007, 07:18 AM
> We do it for the French in the streets of May and the Italians in
> Autumn, for the Mexicans in the summer, and the Czechs and Chinese,
> for the Nicaraugans, the El Salvadorans, the Haitians, the Bolivians,
> and the Venezuelans. For the ANC and landless peasants movement. For
> the anti globalization veterans of Seattle and Prague. For the
> camepasinos in Brazil and the piqueteros in Argentina, for the
> Zapatistas in Mexico and for movements all over Asia, Africa, Europe
> and the Americas - for the millions who opposed the Iraq War before it
> began and the many millions more who oppose it now.
>
> We do it for everyone who has fought, fights, or will fight for a
> better wage, a better home, more dignity, more respect, a better life,
> a better world than they were, are, or are going to be bequeathed.
>
> And at the same time, necessarily:
>
> We do it against the Rockefellers, the Waltons and Buffets, the
> Somozas and Pinochets, the CIAs and FBIs, and the Bushs, Clintons, and
> Kissengers all.
>
> We do it against the doctors coerced by their positions to deal in
> dollars but not in dignity, against the landlords, the corporate
> lawyers, and the politicians with their eyes closed to injustice or
> wallowing in its waste.
>
> We do it against the owners, administrators, bosses, rapists and
> racists, those on top and those who aspire only to be on top, against
> all the dealers of bad hands, against the stacked decks.
>
> We do it against the social ties and unties that breed the pain and
> all who grow ugly by benefiting from its continuance, one step above
> those suffering below.
>
> We do it against the intellectuals who keep information as it if were
> their little toy, who enshrine their ignorance under false halos and
> who hide it behind big words, who justify barbarism or technically
> dissect it as their interests require, never shedding a tear, never
> raising a fist.
>
> We do it against the media liars, the news pimps, the career thinkers
> with brains the size of cornflakes, the academics - left and right -
> who propagate propaganda to preserve this system or some other, and
> yes, we do it against the academics who call themselves socialists and
> always do nothing, the ones who succeed but don't stay angry, the ones
> who don't really care.
>
> And finally, we will make this new world for our parents, our friends,
> our children, our children's children, and for ourselves too.
>
> To succeed, we must all soon agree on at least the essential core
> aspects of what a better world can and will embody.
>
> To succeed, we must flexibly agree on what it will require to make it
> so, what skills must be learned, what tasks accomplished, what
> obstacles overcome, and to succeed, we must act, and act, and act, and
> refine our awareness as we learn from our actions.
>
> Let us not mince words. Let us not call ourselves less than we are.
> The name for all this is revolution.
>
> The name for those who believe in it, who aspire to it, who devote
> themselves to it, is revolutionary.
>
> Till when there will be fewer acquaintances and many more friends and
> lovers, we must be revolutionary, we must be revolutionary, we must be
> revolutionary - to win our new world.
>
> Remember this Forum, and bring it home!
>
halva
07-13-2007, 07:19 AM
I mainly post this because it was sent to me. Michael Albert does not speak for me, nor for the Americans I want to be associated with, I suspect.
halva
07-13-2007, 07:34 AM
Dingo and Jay Reynolds undermine rather than reinforce one another.
What kind of collectivity can be based on two and only two common elements: i.e. the assertion that those who speak of "chemtrails" and/or assert that 911 was an inside job are lunatics and hoaxers? None.
The sum of two negatives is less than either taken separately.
A society of Dingoes and Reynoldses is unviable.
They are united in ridiculing the only thing that keeps them together. They are parasites.
jayreynolds
07-13-2007, 01:27 PM
Dingo and Jay Reynolds undermine rather than reinforce one another.
What kind of collectivity can be based on two and only two common elements: i.e. the assertion that those who speak of "chemtrails" and/or assert that 911 was an inside job are lunatics and hoaxers? None.
The sum of two negatives is less than either taken separately.
A society of Dingoes and Reynoldses is unviable.
They are united in ridiculing the only thing that keeps them together. They are parasites.
Ha, Wayne. Nobody has to even assert that chemmies or 9/11 conspiracy theorists are lunatics and hoaxers.
In the first instance, you have always maintained that there is no proof for "chemtrails".
What sort of lunacy takes you from that statement to a 4 year/400 page debate about the subject? You must be joking, and it's no wonder I see you have been re-banned at my buddy Chem11's 'House of Horrors'.
In the second case, the terrorists themselves have taken responsibility for 9/11, and they have continued to demonstrate their willingness to continue perpetrating terrorist acts into the future. How you people convolute admissions by these terrorists into something else is beyond the cognitive ability of rational minds, who conclude you must all be idiots or sad sicko sufferers of "Bush Derangement Syndrome"
Islamic terrorists look at your suggestion that they were not culpable for 9/11 and shake their heads at the stupidity of your people.
If indeed 10,000 attended this Socialist Forum in Atlanta(and the true number is probably half of that), it amounts to a tiny fraction of our 300 million, thankfully. As I understand it, the totalitarian dictator Mugabe was praised, which must make you proud, Wayne, as he is a singular reflection of the way the world might be were your kind to get control.
Have a nice day, all.......
and Happy Trails!
Dingo
07-13-2007, 01:28 PM
Pastry man takes a breather from his slobbering conspiracy gibberish and goes for a walk down the memory lane of past progressive battles, many of which were honorable contributions to American history.
He hopes it will distract from the fact that he is little more than a conspiracy nutcase, mumbling his life away on a little known board.
It won't. :p
halva
07-13-2007, 09:15 PM
Do you share Reynolds' dismissive attitude towards the United States Social Forum, Dingo? Climate change would certainly have been prominent on its programme, and I doubt that there would have been a platform there for "sceptics".
halva
07-13-2007, 09:47 PM
Pastry man takes a breather from his slobbering conspiracy gibberish and goes for a walk down the memory lane of past progressive battles, many of which were honorable contributions to American history.
He hopes it will distract from the fact that he is little more than a conspiracy nutcase, mumbling his life away on a little known board.
It won't. :p
Dingo, you seem to be here at DBS even more than I am. Would you like to do some competitive bragging about what we do when we are not here?
halva
07-14-2007, 01:59 AM
Islamic terrorists look at your suggestion that they were not culpable for 9/11 and shake their heads at the stupidity of your people.
Raynolds I live in a society which spent four hundred years coming to terms with and internalizing a real "Islamic threat".
We are bound to prevail over a ridiculous ruling criminal clique that tries to tyrannize the greatest country on earth through cynical evocation of a FAKE "Islamic threat",
At least in the confrontation with the USSR the United States was playing itself. It was not dressing up in the borrowed clothes of other societies in other times and other places.
Anything is grist to the mill. Did you see that ridiculous film "The 300"??? " Hollywood wants you losers to think of yourself as Spartans. That was the Nazis self-identification also.
halva
07-14-2007, 04:10 AM
For all I know both Dingo and Raynolds may hold sincerely the views they do on 911.
I suspect this is not the case with "chemtrails". Dingo is probably sincere. Raynolds is not. He knows the score.
How can this theory be put to the test?
.
halva
07-14-2007, 08:40 PM
Australian man charged after tank rampage
SYDNEY (AFP) - An Australian man allegedly used a restored army tank to destroy mobile phone towers on a rampage through Sydney early Saturday, police said.
Police said officers patrolling the western suburbs of Australian's largest city came across the privately-owned tank being used to destroy an electricity sub-station in the early hours of Saturday morning.
They followed the vehicle through several suburbs for 90 minutes as it smashed into mobile phone towers.
The low-speed pursuit, which police said averaged 30 kilometres (19 miles) an hour, finally arresting the driver after it stalled.
"The tank left a path of destruction in its wake, bringing down a number of mobile phone towers and relay sheds," New South Wales police said in a statement.
The 45-year-old driver was charged with a number of offices, including predatory driving, possessing a prohibited drug and using a weapon to avoid apprehension.
He will face a bail hearing later Saturday.
Police gave no reason why the man targeted mobile phone towers.
_____________________________
Comment: Let us hope that he is capable of speaking coherently, uses his trial as a political platform, and gets media coverage that is not an insult to everyone's intelligence. This may be a utopian hope.
jayreynolds
07-15-2007, 05:56 AM
Comment: Let us hope that he is capable of speaking coherently, uses his trial as a political platform, and gets media coverage that is not an insult to everyone's intelligence. This may be a utopian hope.
So, a man goes on a destructive rampage and for Wayne Hall the desired "utopian hope" is that he gets a "political platform"?
Sicko.
halva
07-15-2007, 08:06 AM
I knew you would bite on that one, Raynolds. What about the other postings. More difficult, hmmm?
jayreynolds
07-15-2007, 04:42 PM
I knew you would bite on that one, Raynolds. What about the other postings. More difficult, hmmm?
What, some Limey chemmie without a clue that insists that contrails can't persist longer than 2 minutes?
That's so "turn of the century" thinking, Wayne, you should be ashamed to repeat such tripe.
Your people will always fail in the company of rational folks when you keep getting the basics of Contrails 101 wrong. From that point on, all further attempts at persuation can only influence non-performing segments of the population, like those who have no brain, I mean. Andrew Johnson should count his blessings that it appears english civil servants have little more to do than to accomodate his ravings and dignify them with long replies. I expect given his poor grasp of the subject matter his whole palaver has been filed in the "circular file"(dustbin?) and his name entered into the "Bloody Wankers To Be Henceforth Ignored" file.
Seen from 'Socrates' eyes, however, it's just another example of how you promote tinfoil and get tinfoil back in return.
GIGO rules. So sweet.
BTW, didn't you say you had me on your legendary "Ignore List"?
BUSTED!
halva
07-15-2007, 07:56 PM
Do you share Reynolds' dismissive attitude towards the United States Social Forum, Dingo? Climate change would certainly have been prominent on its programme, and I doubt that there would have been a platform there for "sceptics".
Of course he probably won't respond. Understanding the connection between the climate change issue and Raynolds' obsession would mean moving into dangerous waters...
Dingo only drops into this section when he thinks we need some big brotherly assistance. Or once in a blue moon to start a peculiar subject of his own, usually demonstrating a contrast between the progressive scientifically oriented and the backward religiously oriented.
halva
07-15-2007, 08:06 PM
For all I know both Dingo and Raynolds may hold sincerely the views they do on 911.
I suspect this is not the case with "chemtrails". Dingo is probably sincere. Raynolds is not. He knows the score.
How can this theory be put to the test?
.
.
halva
07-17-2007, 07:15 PM
1. Climate Engineers: War, Profit, Survival
http://newyorkskywatch.com/climate-engineers-war-profit-survival/
2. Skywatch Radio July 17, 2007
http://www.newyorkskywatch.com/
Dr Helen Caldicott, a Nobel Prize-nominated peace activist, who was a leader of the anti-nuclear movement in the United States. In this interview she describes the effect of nuclear weapons on humans, plants, animals and ecosystems.
(Be scared, be very scared!!!!)
halva
07-22-2007, 02:19 AM
Rosalind Peterson. More on the dying of trees:
http://newswithviews.com/Peterson/rosalind4.htm
jayreynolds
07-22-2007, 06:34 AM
Rosalind Peterson. More on the dying of trees:
http://newswithviews.com/Peterson/rosalind4.htm
Peterson's article is very weak. Her quotes are so brief and contain so little context, the authors could have been saying anything. She has found absolutely no real biologists who support her claims. She uses as a reference a NASA article about subsonic airplanes, yet claims she sees supersonic airplanes.
In the final analysis, Peterson is a dullard who is out of her league, and she won't get you anywhere, except laughed at.
halva
07-24-2007, 03:42 AM
This is an interesting item of information:
To my surprise I found out that our airports will issue permits to
distribute information within the terminals per "freedom of information"
statute. I submitted "chemtrail" material as well as 9/11 truth
material for their approval and it sailed through their legal dept.
without a glitch. This is a great opportunity to reach a cross section
of the uninitiated and undoubtedly get in a few arguments as well. The
airport supplies the table and chairs and will set it up as well. I
would imagine all airports must conform to the same practice.
jayreynolds
07-24-2007, 04:15 AM
This is an interesting item of information:
To my surprise I found out that our airports will issue permits to
distribute information within the terminals per "freedom of information"
statute. I submitted "chemtrail" material as well as 9/11 truth
material for their approval and it sailed through their legal dept.
without a glitch. This is a great opportunity to reach a cross section
of the uninitiated and undoubtedly get in a few arguments as well. The
airport supplies the table and chairs and will set it up as well. I
would imagine all airports must conform to the same practice.
If the above unconfirmable statement is true, the person making it needs to carefully survey what ordinary commercial jet pilots passing through the airport have to say, and let his fellow chemmies know. The pilots will certainly get a laugh out of the ignorant inanity of the chemtrails hoax as they create and fly through the contrails you people call "chemtrails" all the time.
halva
07-24-2007, 06:26 AM
What I found interesting about the above news item is that it may reflect the beginnings of a policy among The Powers That Be to show a preference for people attempting to draw attention to chemtrails and geoengineering, even if their attitude to them is negative, rather than people who seek to deny the existence of the former and acceptability of the latter.
The increase of interest in the subject among journalists is strengthening the position of those of us who have inserted ourselves between the media and politicians and now serve to "protect" the politicians from the media. Why have journalists hassling our mayor to answer questions that are too difficult for him and a distraction from problems he has some hope of solving?
Similarly with Dr. Zerefos. He is having difficulty sustaining the position of timid "support" for geoengineering he expressed in the media a month or two back. He is now denying to journalists that there has been any change in his views.
jayreynolds
07-24-2007, 06:35 AM
What I found interesting about the above news item.
No, it's not a "news item".
It is unattributed undocumented unconfimable hearsay.
Standard MO for chemmies......
halva
07-24-2007, 06:46 AM
You are not the intended audience for communications I make, Raynolds.
halva
07-24-2007, 09:09 AM
I would say that the majority of people in responsible positions would feel better with a situation of more government by consent and less government by deception than is current today.
The duty of deception is not something in which most normal people take relish or find a source of professional satisfaction.
Lying plausibly also requires a good memory, considerable powers of concentration and above all a motivation that is probably lacking in the majority.
Government by consent is easier on everyone's nerves. Deception has surely played a subsidiary role throughout history, and primarily at the pinnacle of society, not right through society from top to bottom.
halva
07-24-2007, 09:59 AM
This is more documentation of the advantages of government by consent over government by deception:
This is from Carnicom's:
A Discussion on Chemtrails with Rep. Jay Inslee
On July 8th I had a brief discussion about chemtrails with US
Congressman for Washington state Mr. Jay Inslee. The conversation took
place on Bainbridge Island at the ferry terminal there. I approached
him with a question: "Hello Mr. Inslee, have you guys up in DC had
much discussion lately about chemtrails"? , I asked boldly. He asked me
to repeat the word "chemtrails. " I said with emphasis; "the contrails
in the sky that we are seeing on a daily basis over our heads above
Seattle and Bainbridge Island." He asked me to spell it since it was a
new term unfamiliar in his vocabulary. "Chem-trail" I spelled it out
for him. He admitted he didn't know about them. I was of course
somewhat surprised to hear that one of our brightest and strongest
environmentally concerned congressman had never before heard of
chemtrails. I affirmed my dire concern to explain that there is an
ongoing spraying going on over our heads and that I had been
documenting it for about 2 years and had over 5000 pictures of that
spraying to prove I was telling the truth.
He asked me "who is doing this spraying?". I jumped right into it and
told him it appears to be our very own military, that air force tanker
jets displaying air force insignia on the wings are the culprits. I
watched his reaction. He smiled and seemed to be thinking it can't be
true, such things couldn't be done without him noticing or knowing
about it. I told him before he spoke that the internet has a vast
number of information sites, amatuer videos, etc., including my own
videos up on YouTube on the subject and that this was not just
happening here over Seattle and in the USA but all over the world. He
asked me "who authorized this spraying, who ordered it?" he said. I
told him that some think that the chemtrail mission is directly
related to the late Dr. Edward Teller's infamous white paper
advocating aerosol spraying as a means towards global climate control.
Dr. Teller, known throughout the world as the father of the hydrogen
bomb," did write such a paper and it is still downloadable from the
Internet as a PDF document here:
http://www.rense. com/general18/ scatteringEdTell erwithnotes. pdf
As far as to who it was who "ordered it" I admitted it's unknown, but
suggested that it's most likely a black budget project. His reaction
was interesting as he was thinking and not talking. I mentioned Dennis
Kucinich had an original bill he tried to get passed e.g. where Rep.
Kucinich's HR 2977 Names Chemtrails As An `Exotic Weapon'. He replied
he hadn't seen that bill from 2001.Then I asked him if he knew of
another bill on March 3, 2005, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Texas)
introduced the Weather Modification Research and Technology Transfer
Authorization Act (S.517). Mr. Inslee had not heard of that bill
either. I also noted that the spray contains documented and tested
barium and aluminum salts among other exotic contents that are toxic
to humans, etc. He wondered aloud "but is it really true?"
I told Mr. Inslee to talk to Dennis Kucinich about chemtrails and he
said he definitely would. I pointed to YouTube again as a reference
for videos demonstrating a worldwide aerosol spraying phenomena. He
said he will look those up as well. As I put my hand out to shake his
waiting hand I thanked him sincerely for listening and hearing me on
such an alarming subject as he asked me my name. I told him my name
and that I drive taxi on Bainbridge Island everday reminding him that
it's very real - that this constant aerosol spraying is occuring
almost daily here and that acute respiratory cases are being reported
at clinics and hospitals as well as many other "flu-like" symptoms and
that I had local newspaper (Seattle Times) proof of that as well. He
thanked me again for sharing that info with him and produced his card
telling me to email him with all the information I want to share. I
took the card eagerly and thrust my hand out to thank him again. We
shook hands and walked away.
halva
07-24-2007, 03:30 PM
You see the problem here.
Government by deception in this instance involves being obliged to behave with such stupidity that one starts to endanger one's one own professional credibility. Finally one is at the mercy of the good manners and sense of discretion of every taxi driver.
Dingo
07-24-2007, 06:50 PM
It's heart warming to think all these American flyers who are spraying their secret chemtrail serum are so good at keeping it secret. In this obsessionally confessional society where Freud is practically God, it's nice to know there are some folks that can keep a secret.
That's comforting. I'll sleep better knowing the integrity of a zipped lip is still out there. :rolleyes:
halva
07-24-2007, 09:45 PM
Dingo, take a look at these two posts:
By Reynolds:
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=829875&postcount=1
By a person who has tried to attract Inslee's attention to "chemtrails"
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread12290.html
You clearly do not agree with the climate-change contrarian Reynolds that there is something reprehensible about Inslee's way of dealing with constituents who want to get him to take some stand or other (support/condemnation????) on the "chemtrails" phenomenon.
Do you agree with me that this stance of feigned ignorance, when assumed for the ten thousandth time, after years of being approached in the same way, on the same issue, is lacking in credibility in a way that affects not only the prestige of the political system but also the prestige of the individual politician who can find no more effectual way of behaving (even if only by telling his constituent he is a nutcase, as Reynolds suggests he should)..
Would you not also agree that a person, and a system, who/which behaves in this way year after year, has become extremely vulnerable??
Reynolds tries to exploit this vulnerability for party-political benefit since he is a Republican supporter and an opponent of Inslee's policies on climate change issues.
But would you not agree that Inslee is also weakening his own politics, which on climate change as I understand it, is the same as yours, by allowing himself to be "trapped" in this way.
The point that I was making was that we here in Greece are beginning to find ways of rescuing politicians of the Inslee type, strengthening them and protecting them.
Do we have your support for doing this, Dingo? Yes or no?
Dingo
07-25-2007, 05:27 AM
About 80% of this board are conspiracy nutcases about something. You and Reynolds are both in that 80%, just different conspiracies. You both need to get over each other and get a life. There is more to life than chemtrails and 911 conspiracies. There is bigfoot and reptillian aliens. Expand your horizons. :D
Here's a place that will really hook you up with weird shit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_to_Coast_AM
halva
07-25-2007, 05:43 AM
You are just the latest person who wants to call Reynolds and me "you guys".
If you can't get your bearings you are simply going to be left behind, Dingo.
halva
07-25-2007, 05:46 AM
Who is going to be left behind, Raynolds. Dingo or me?
If I get left behind, will Dingo go with you? Or will you go with Dingo?
halva
07-26-2007, 12:57 AM
Raynolds would like to call Dingo and me "you guys" also, but he can't quite bring himself to do it.
There is only one game he can play, and he is dependent on collaborators to be able to play it.
halva
07-31-2007, 03:35 AM
http://climatesci.colorado.edu/2007/07/27/powerpoint-presentations-from-the-2007-pittsburg-tripartite-symposium-realities-and-challenges-of-global-warmingglobal-dimming/
halva
07-31-2007, 10:02 PM
Zissis Argyropoulos is a prefectural councillor in the city of Larissa in Central Greece. It was he who last year approached the Greek national politician Asimina Xirotiri and persuaded her to ask a parliamentary question about aerosol spraying over Larissa.
http://www.enouranois.gr/english/political/xirotiri.htm
Argyropoulos was recently approached by the Greek journalist Aliki Stefanou, who has started writing about "chemtrails" and related issues, in connection with a tentative proposal for a national meeting of Greek "chemtrails" activists in Larissa or in Stefanou's own nearby city of Volos, both centrally located in Greece.
Argyropoulos told Aliki Stefanou that he has gone to newspapers and television channels about "chemtrails" but that he thinks we should have more reliable and valid data in order to be able to proceed. The fact that there is no proof of the spraying and that there are scientists who will assert that the phenomenon has to do entirely with temperature inversion puts us on a tightrope.
Let us get some responses to this assertion of Zissis Argyropoulos. My input into this discusssion is to say that there are a number of questions that can be asked of these scientists who wish to say that "chemtrails" are just condensation trails from aircraft of the type that have been seen since the beginning of jet-propelled flight. Firstly, it is documented fact that proposals have been made for the use of aircraft emissions for the purposes of mitigating the effects of climate change. Scientists making such proposals must be asked if they would be in favour, if such proposals are implemented (and it is said more and more frequently - e.g. on the recent "Discovery Channel" programme - that they are now "about to be implemented"
http://www.airapparent.ca/library/full_text/discoverychannel_chemtrails.htm) whether they would favour them being carried out secretly or with full transparency and accountability.
Another question to ask such scientists would be: if the situation of our planet is so serious that such terrible "remedies" are being contemplated, how can it be explained that it is still being tolerated for "anthropogenic climate change" sceptics to claim in public that global warming scenarios have been concocted for self-interested purposes by scientists more interested in money than in scientific objectivity. Should not such "climate change contrarians" be stigmatized and marginalized at least as vigorously as people who claim that the Jewish "holocaust" is a fabrication?
Should not the present "climate change debate" between climate change activists and "sceptics" be replaced by a "geoengineering" debate between the climate change movement and "chemtrails" activists, with the climate change contrarians and sceptics being consigned to the margins of society, (the position currently occupied by "chemtrails activists"?)
As I said, these are my views. Some people on our side disagree - particularly with my second point. They might therefore wish to present Zissis Argyropoulos with different arguments and different evidence so as to persuade him that there is the basis for a successful campaign on the subject of the aerosol spraying, and for a pan-Hellenic meeting of activists in his city of Larissa or in the nearby city of Volos.
halva
08-01-2007, 01:42 AM
http://www.desmogblog.com/nukes-mount-stealth-attack-in-congress
halva
08-02-2007, 08:49 PM
http://newyorkskywatch.com/2007/08/01/skywatch-radio-august-1-2007/
Every scientist I spoke with said they didn’t know about the global aerosol program or repeated the mantra, the government can’t keep a secret. Is this compartmentalization or lies or both?
http://newyorkskywatch.com/2007/08/01/skywatch-radio-august-1-2007/
Every scientist I spoke with said they didn’t know about the global aerosol program or repeated the mantra, the government can’t keep a secret. Is this compartmentalization or lies or both?
it just doesn't matter.... they keep spraying.
99% of the world could be aware of chemtrails yet the one percenters will continue doing what their doing. Its pretty simple. they have control..they know it and face it..we know it..
so they will do as they please.
all things must pass.
Kola
halva
08-03-2007, 05:36 AM
Parliamentary questions
10 May 2007
E-2455/07
WRITTEN QUESTION by Erik Meijer (GUE/NGL) to the Commission
Subject: Aircraft condensation trails which no longer only contain water
but cause persistent milky veils, possibly due to the presence of
barium, aluminium and iron
1. Is the Commission aware that, since 1999, members of the public in
Canada and the USA have been complaining about the growing presence in
the air of aircraft condensation trails of a new type, which sometimes
persist for hours and which spread far more widely than in the past,
creating milky veils which are dubbed ‘aerial obscuration’, and that the
new type has particularly come to people's attention because it is so
different from the short, pencil-thin white contrails which have been a
familiar sight ever since jet engines came into use and which remain
visible for 20 minutes at most and can only be produced if steam
condenses on dust particles due to low temperatures and high humidity?
2. Is the Commission aware that investigations by these complainants,
observations by pilots and statements by government bodies increasingly
suggest that what is happening is that aircraft are emitting into dry
air small particles consisting of barium, aluminium and iron, a
phenomenon which in public debate in America has come to be known as
chemtrails?
3. Unlike contrails, chemtrails are not an inevitable by-product of
modern aviation. Does the Commission know, therefore, what is the
purpose of artificially emitting these Earth-derived substances into the
Earth's atmosphere? Does it help to cause rain, benefit
telecommunications or combat climate change?
4. To what extent are aerial obscuration and chemtrails now also being
employed in the air over Europe, bearing in mind that many people here
too are now convinced that the phenomenon is becoming increasingly
common and are becoming concerned about the fact that little is so far
known about it and there is no public information on the subject? Who
initiates this spraying and how is it funded?
5. Apart from the intended benefits of emitting substances into the air,
is the Commission aware of any possible disadvantages it may have for
the environment, public health, aviation and TV reception?
6. What is being done to prevent individual European states or
businesses from taking measures unilaterally whose crossborder impact
other States or citizens' organisations may regard as undesirable? Is
coordination already taking place with regard to this? Is the EU playing
a part in it, or does the Commission anticipate a future role, and what
are the Commission's objectives in this connection?
Original language of question: NL
**
E-2455/07EN
Answer given by Mr Dimas
on behalf of the Commission
(26.6.2007)
1. The Commission is aware of claims that such trends and phenomena
exist. However, the Commission is not aware of any evidence
substantiating such claims. The extent to which aircraft condensation
trails form and the speed at which they disappear are in the first
instance determined by pressure, temperature, and the relative humidity
of a given flight level. Fuel and combustion properties and the overall
propulsive efficiency may also have an impact. Any changes or trends in
the extent to which contrails are reported to remain visible and develop
into more widespread clouds may thus be due to factors such as changes in
- meteorological conditions
- traffic volumes
- jet-engine efficiency
2. The Commission is aware of such claims but is not aware of any
evidence that particles of barium, aluminium or iron are being emitted,
deliberately or not, by aircraft.
3. No. It cannot be precluded that the release of such particles might
affect precipitation and climate change, but as indicated above the
Commission is not aware of any evidence that such releases take place.
4. The Commission is not aware of any evidence that such methods are
being employed in Europe.
5. None of the substances referred to are hazardous per se, but some
effects on environment and public health can not be ruled out if large
scale releases to the air occurred.
6. As indicated above the Commission is not aware of any evidence
suggesting that there is any reason to act.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+WQ+E-2007-2455+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Meijer
Also:
Petition the EP - may be worthwhile:
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/parliament/public/staticDisplay.do?id=49&language=EN
Report of the exchange:
http://www.chatbear.com/unity2/6630/428,1183025286,7519/1046863?v=flatold
halva
08-04-2007, 06:13 AM
Here is something (my translation) that has just come out in the latest number of the Greek magazine Hellenic Nexus. It is not much of an article but I think it is worth trying to check if there is any substance in the story about the Greek blood-testing laboratory’s communicating with the American blood-testing laboratory, or if this is just Alexander Georgiou striving for cheap sensationalism by playing with the national stereotypes about Americans that many Greeks like to indulge.
EXPOSURE!
PEOPLE’S BLOOD IS BEING POISONED WITH ALUMINIUM
by Alexander Georgiou
Hellenic Nexus has in the past been extensively involved with the question of “chemtrails”, publishing data connected with the behind-the-scenes aspects of their implementation and their serious effects on people’s health. Nevertheless, even though a wealth of relevant articles have come out in the period intervening since the first appearance of the subject, both in the publications of our milieu and in the mainstream media, which have made the subject familiar to wider strata of the public, a certain item of information that has come to us from a blood-testing laboratory prompts us to re-examine the subject, since it seems that a new dimension of the chemtrails issue is now opening – ringing the alarm bells for Greece, and with evidence too.
According to the results of routine tests, the blood of Greeks contains higher than normal levels of heavy metals and aluminium, chemical elements that are contained in the composition of the notorious aerial spraying.
DISTURBING TESTS
Symptoms such as headaches, sciatica, muscle pain, nose-bleeding, lethargy and melancholy were the first disturbing messages from the residents of areas from which there were frequent reports of spraying. These worries came as confirmation of the results of recent routine blood tests, which revealed clear increases in the levels of aluminium in the blood of Greeks – reinforcing concern over the frequent spraying, whose composition includes aluminium.
It has been observed that aluminium belongs in the category of those trace elements which become toxic when they are present at above-normal levels in the blood, causing a variety of problems in the bodies of both humans and animals. In general aluminium prevents release of the electrical discharge between the nerve cells, with the effect of lowering the general level of activity of the nervous system, at the same time acting as an inhibitory factor for the functioning of two important enzymes in the brain (Na+/K+-ATPase and exokinase), which are indispensable in every form of life (bacteria, plants, animals) for release of the energy inherent in chemical reactions within the organism that are very important for the maintenance of life itself.
Moreoever aluminium can prevent nerve cells from taking in necessary chemicals such as dopamine, noradrenalin and hydroxytryptamine (http://www.rense.com/general11/chmmill.htm). Aluminium poisoning can lead to dementia, loss of memory, conceptual confusion and disorientation. It also inhibits proper intestinal functioning.
But the toxicity of aluminium is also linked to other conditions such as flatulence, edema, colic, icthyosis, bone pain, premature osteoporosis, severe headache which can be relieved only by eating, heartburn, revulsion from meat, etc. (http://www.med.nyu.edu/patientcare/library/article.html?ChunkIID=16492)
Finally, Alzheimer’s disease, hyperparathyroidism, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, anaemia, renal or liver failure, porphyria, neuro-muscular disorders, hemolysis, Parkinson’s disease, ulcers, pulp cavities in the teeth, etc., are all linked, directly or indirectly, to high levels of aluminium in the blood..
The skyrocketing rise in the incidence of these diseases in recent years in the Western world is apparently linked to ever higher levels of aluminium in people’s blood. In the USA, for example, since the year 2000 Alzheimer’s has been the eighth most common cause of death, affecting eighteen people per 100,000 when in 1979 the figure was two people per 100,000 (see the relevant diagram).
THE LINK TO CHEMTRAILS
There did not appear to be any connection between these various facts until a Canadian Internet activist, Brian Holmes, decided to look more closely into the subject (http://www.holmstead.ca/index-ct.html) when he noticed that non-commercial aircraft were leaving large quantities of exhaust gases over his fields. Since this spraying had aroused his suspicions he decided to send a sample of the soil from his farm for analysis at a special chemical laboratory. The results were startling: his farm appeared to be saturated with aluminium and barium, at levels five times the normal readings.
Indeed, as numerous witnesses have observed, in many different parts of the world, the aircraft that leave these trails are not commercial but military – and in fact of the type KC135R. The chemical composition of the material being sprayed seems to be barium salts, aluminium oxide and polymers.
The diagram shows the fluctuations in the incidence of a number of different diseases in the United States, between 1958 and 2000. A dramatic increase is clearly visible in the number of cases of Alzheimer’s (indicated by the arrow). This article attributes this increase, among other factors, to spraying which includes significant quantities of aluminium and barium in its composition.
But a new line of thought has made its appearance recently, in connection with chemtrails, representing a significant departure from the theories so far put forward: the barium salts, the aluminium oxide and the polymers in the atmosphere seem to create ideal conditions for transmission of electromagnetic waves, and in particular those of mobile telephones. Thus, apart from the much-discussed applications along the lines of HAARP, yet another parameter emerges with a bearing on surveillance of citizens: strengthening of mobile telephone signals could prove useful in tracking via satellite of every type of microchip that is transmitting special signals – evidently including all the chips that will, quite possibly, be implanted in the human body.
The Greek blood-testing laboratory referred to previously contacted a corresponding American laboratory, mentioning the problem of the high levels of aluminium in the blood of many Greeks. The Greek scientists were astounded to hear from their American colleagues that they should already know that these higher levels were a result of the aerial spraying being carried out to facilitate strengthening of mobile telephone signals, something that in America is considered acceptable and self-evident.
If this is true, one should go beyond the strengthening-the-mobile-telephone-signal explanation and also take into account the further implications that could be concealed behind such methodology. Because it is a fact that today every person carries a mobile phone on him. A powerful signal makes it – at least – possible for the position of every person to be known, as well as the content of every type of conversation.
Examining the subject of chemtrails, then, one discovers that it is many-sided, serving the New Order in a number of different ways: weather modification, biological warfare, surveillance, mind control.
Whether true or an exaggeration, the fact is that many witnesses can confirm that the spraying is being carried out and medical texts can confirm the serious consequences for human health.
REFERENCES
• http://www.med.nyu.edu/patientcare/library/article.html?ChunkIID=164929
• http://www.holmestead.ca/index-ct.html
• http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/correspondence.html
• “Spray Tankers Tracked by Radar, Lab Tests Raise Concerns” by William Thomas, 28th January 2003
• http://www.rense.com/general11/chmmill.htm
• http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/solar.html
halva
08-06-2007, 09:19 PM
Rosalind Peterson has sent out a partial transcript of the August 5 Discovery Channel programme "Can we Control the Weather", but unfortunately it is a pdf text and I can't post it.
halva
08-08-2007, 10:03 AM
Soil Tests from Portland coast
From D.W.
Date: 7/25/2007 12:12:38 AM
Subject: Oregon lab tests received
I wanted to pass on the results from 5 soil samples pulled from some of what would have appeared to be the most unspoiled areas left in our country. The wilderness areas along the Oregon coast. The results are beyond belief. (Testing for aluminum)
Reedsport: 19100 mg/kg (ppm)
Lincoln City: 14700 mg/kg (ppm)
Powers: 18600 mg/kg (ppm)
Agness : 20200 mg/kg (ppm)
Brookings 38000 mg/kg (ppm)
These results are literally off the charts. One thing to keep in mind, Soils from the top layer of a dried up puddle will of course have a concentrated amount of material from rain wash, etc. Even so, these amounts are far beyond anything I thought possible. They are far worse than any of the tests taken in Shasta county.
While surveying the Oregon coast, trails ("chemtrails") could be observed as far out over the ocean as the eye could see. Some satellite photos recently reviewed show them extending out for hundreds of miles in some cases. They run parallel to the coast in what would seem an attempt to pick up and float the marine moister further inland and create a cooling effect. Here in Shasta county, for the last four to six weeks, there has been a fairly consistent costal breeze straight from the west. I have not observed this in any of the previous six years I have lived here. I have spoken to several long time residents that also don't recall this scenario.
I have to hope that the majority of the individuals that are part of this immense project, must not know or comprehend the irreparable damage they are doing. Those at the top of course don't care. Nor do their corporate conspirators, Alcoa, Boeing, and GE (who make the jet engines being used on the hundreds of new Boeing tankers currently being built for the Air Force, adding to its current level of about one thousand.)
It is up to all of us, absolutely all of us, to get the word out by whatever peaceful means we can muster. We are working on getting cheap copies of the best dvd on the subject that is extremely
compelling. Copies should be about 50 cents each. With this, a copy of the patent for the spray mix, and an article or two, many could be made aware. Everyone that cares about this most pressing issue should get, and have these items ready to hand out whenever possible.
From: D.M.
Results are coming in from Northern California which i should have in hand soon that show 375000 parts aluminum and barium. That is off the charts as well, These results are consistent with what we suspect from various aerial operations involving persistent contrails.
From: Tricia Knoll
Public Information Officer
Portland Water Bureau
One resource is to review the water quality report that is posted online at http://www.portlandonline.com/water/index.cfm?c=29814
Anything not in the report was not detected. However, I have also forwarded your comment to our regulatory compliance group and they will also comment back to you about the specific elements you are concerned about. Usually we respond to emails same day, but I was out of the office yesterday.
*TrackIT Item: 167502*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Category:* Comments to the Portland Water Bureau
*Date Created:* 06/27/2007 8:02 PM
*Date Received:* 06/27/2007
*Contact:* None
*Contact Type:* Website
*Your name:* david morrison
*Comment:* Hello, I would like to have the results of water testing for various elements: aluminum, barium, thorium, *Please add me to the Portland Water Bureau's mailing list for
information about:* All topics listed below
------------------------------------------------------------------------
halva
08-08-2007, 10:27 AM
Date: 7/31/2007 8:55:34 AM
Subject: Re: Water Sample
From: D.W.
Nancy collected a sample from the big rain from 6/18. Took it into Basic Lab. Said it would be done in 10 working days.
It occurred to me today that they may try to blame the Chinese for this. All the pollution over there floating over here...
Hi,
I meant to tell you to be sure and shake up your rain collection container before you brought it in. Hopefully you did. Yes, I have already heard the argument about the Chinese. I counter with asking why these tests are showing up al the way to the UK. There are tests being taken there with the same results but I need to find that file again.
I had a short chat last night with Rosalind Peterson. She has done so much more on this issue than anyone. I believe I mentioned that she has been invited to speak at the UN general meeting in September on this issue. Her credentials for speaking on this matter are inarguable. She sounded very sober last evening. Before we hung up, she stated: 'This will kill us all eventually if we can't stop it. It is hard to accept this, but I believe she is correct. If it can kill a hundreds-of-years-old tree, in fact, from what I have already observed, incredible amounts of them, it can kill us. Slowly, and imperceptibly, like with the trees, it already is. I have consistently trained physically since I was 13 years old. In the last couple of years, I have noticed an increasing irritation with my upper respiratory system. I have had nose bleeds without apparent cause, as reported by so many others around the nation. It is not my imagination. Statistics from around the country are incredibly alarming in this regard. The list of diseases associated with prolonged exposure to heavy metals is very long. We don't even know the full range of what is being dumped on us, only what we are testing for. Strontium also showed up the single time I tested for it. I firmly believe there is no more urgent or imminent threat that faces us. It is the epitome of this governments insanity, tyranny, and total disregard for any form of life whatsoever, including the lives of its own citizens. For me, this issue must fought with any and every peaceful means at our disposal. We will not effectively be able to address the many other urgent issues without our health.
I would be grateful for any and all suggestions as to other means, ways, and contacts, to help with the effort to expose this incomprehensible crime.
Dane
it just doesn't matter.... they keep spraying.
99% of the world could be aware of chemtrails yet the one percenters will continue doing what their doing. Its pretty simple. they have control..they know it and face it..we know it..
so they will do as they please.
all things must pass.
Kola
Kola,
What happens to shit when it's kept compartmentalized? :eek:
It keeps building up and eventually starts to overfloweth_right? :rolleyes:
When NORMAL, things should PASS regularly and this relieves any nasty distress, A-What :D
halva
08-10-2007, 02:15 AM
It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature.
It's not nice to fool with cities' architectural heritage, either, vandalistically..
Athens, Greece, is one of the world's great cities, but its real greatness lies far in the past, in ruins. Modern Athens was a village in the early nineteenth century. in the nineteenth and the first half of the twentieth centuries its architectural achievements, under the Bavarian-born and Philhellene Greek King Otto and afterwards, were existent, but modest. And much of what there was was pulled down after World War II to build endless banks of featureless cement apartment buildings.
Philip Dragoumis shows all this in his professionally done little video on the threat to two items of modern Athens' architectural heritage owing to construction of the new Acropolis Museum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Magsh69jth0
Philip Dragoumis is one of the founders of the EKPAZ Wildlife hospital in Aigina. He also authored a charming collection of animal stories called "Roz the Pelican", which can be read online:
http://pcsi.tripod.com/roz
halva
08-10-2007, 03:40 AM
There was a time in my life when I believed that I was part of a culture of people — call us the English speaking people — who were excellent. The way of grief was the path through which I learned that we have not yet achieved this standard. Long ago, I made a promise that I would never act against the best interests or the excellence of my own people — that I would do my best to ensure that we were worthy of the stewardship of our world and that we did our best to leave a better world for generations yet to come. To make and keep such a promise is to understand that money and position are tools, not goals, and that death is not the worst thing that can happen. John Birkelund would probably accuse me of “fighting the tape” and not being “good at the game.” I would tell John that now is not the time in the history of our people for a failure of imagination.
Catherine Austin Fitts
halva
08-10-2007, 10:46 AM
http://newswithviews.com/Peterson/rosalind5.htm
CAN WE CONTROL THE WEATHER?
By Rosalind Peterson
August 10, 2007
NewsWithViews.com
On August 5, 2007, a Discover Channel Program, “CAN WE CONTROL THE WEATHER?” was aired for the first time. It was an interesting program about hurricanes, scientific interest in controlling them, and also scientific interest in local and global control of the weather.
However, the underlying theme of the presentation was about ethics, politics, technology, scientific uncertainty, and morality. Part of the program was based upon a paper written in February 2002, by Dr. Ross N. Hoffman, “Controlling the Global Weather.”
What are the risks and ethical considerations if scientists “play god” and try to control the weather? Who has oversight over their actions? Does the public have a right to know about these experiments and their environmental and human health implications?
Weather Modification may adversely impact agricultural crops and water supplies. If the weather is changed in one state or region of our country it may have severe consequences for other regions of our country. And who is going to decide the type of weather modification experimentation and who it will benefit or adversely affect? There are many ethical questions to be raised with regard to weather modification programs.
The Discovery Channel Program did not address:
1) The synergistic effects of current ongoing combined weather modification programs being undertaken in the United States by different entities (private, public and university). There are over 50 listed by NOAA that are currently ongoing at this time.
2) The program did not address studies that show hurricanes improve coral reef health or other benefits of the mixing of ocean waters produced by hurricanes.
3) This program did not comment on Dyn-O-Mat’s plans for hurricane control, or the results of these efforts, between 2005 and 2007. Popular Science (2005) also had written about a private company, Dyn-O-Mat, who planned to purchase jets to drop thousands of pounds of a water absorbing chemical powder ( Dyn-O-Gel which is alleged to be highly toxic), into hurricanes to absorb moisture to try dissipate hurricanes. (There are no agriculture oversight or public hearings to determine the consequences of this and other actions, or to monitor or prevent adverse impacts from this chemical once it falls from the air and lands on our soil, in drinking water supplies, and our oceans.)
4) This program did not address the known health effects that could arise if carbon black dust were released into the atmosphere.
5) The December 2005 Popular Science Magazine discussed a geoengineering plan to use an oil slick to stop hurricanes without noting the adverse environmental impacts of the oil used to cover the ocean and what would happen to marine life in the area.
6) The weather modification and climate change (NASA Studies), caused by persistent jet contrails that turn into man-made clouds and affect natural resources.
Below you will find a partial transcription from one important segment of the Discovery program with regard to controlling or steering hurricanes through the use of a fleet of jets leaving highly toxic, carbon black dust contrails: DISCOVERY CHANNEL PROGRAM - AUGUST 5, 2007
“CAN WE CONTROL THE WEATHER?” PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT
MIT PROFESSOR KERRY EMANUEL: “…The evolution of the weather is terribly sensitive to small disturbances.
Narrator: “Chaos Theory says that tiny disturbances in the atmosphere can trigger a chain of events that cause large scale changes somewhere else…Professor Emanuel thinks that introducing the right disturbance, or perturbation, could artificially create a weather system capable of deflecting a hurricane. It is something that he knows can happen quite naturally…”
Professor Emanuel: “So we actually know what kind of perturbations the atmosphere is most sensitive to right now. Then the next step, if you actually wanted to modify the weather, is to deliberately go out and manufacture such perturbations. It doesn’t have to be very big. One of the ideas that has been floated is to lay a contrail, with a bunch of jets, that’s deliberately black carbon to absorb sunlight.
Narrator: “In Emanuel’s scenario, as a hurricane heads for the East Coast of the U.S., a fleet of planes drops a huge swath of black carbon dust on the West Coast. The idea, to absorb the sun’s warmth, and in the process create a small, but significant, temperature change in the atmosphere.”
Professor Emanuel: “The atmosphere would naturally amplify this temperature perturbation and, as it moves toward the east over the U.S., the system would cause a normal kind of weather system; a low pressure area. And three days later it begins to interact with our hurricane and steers the hurricane offshore so that it never hits land.” (Was there an experiment conducted in 2005 to test this hurricane theory?)
Professor Emanuel: “And all you are doing is exactly the same thing that happens anyway. You are just affecting the timing of it. You are not doing anything unnatural to the natural world.”
Narrator: “Emanuel’s carbon trail (based on the paper written by Dr. Ross N. Hoffman in 2002), could have the potential to turn science fiction into scientific reality.”
Narrator: “But manipulating the weather may come at a price. The ability to decide the path of a hurricane raises serious moral dilemmas…”
END OF PARTIAL TRANSCRIPTION – DISCCOVERY CHANNEL PROGRAM
Many black contrails have been seen over the United States since the early 1990s. Are these black contrails composed of black carbon dust that is being used for weather modification experiments? Have scientists been conducting atmospheric perturbation experiments using highly toxic, carbon black dust particulates, other chemicals, experimental weather modification programs or atmospheric heating and testing programs?
It was revealed during the Discovery Channel program that NOAA and other agencies can’t pinpoint exactly where a hurricane will make landfall? A fleet of jets leaving contrails, across the United States, composed of Black Carbon Dust, could modify the weather across the U.S., causing unusual flooding or drought and disrupt agriculture micro-climates needed for crop production. No references were made to these problems during the Discovery program.
These black carbon dust particles are toxic atmospheric pollutants and could exacerbate asthma in children, increase respiratory health problems, and exacerbate global warming. And yet these problems and the toxicity of black carbon dust was never raised during this Discovery program. (Note the tape shown in the Discovery segment of the two jets that were leaving carbon black dust contrails. Each jet had four engines and yet only two black contrails were being left behind each jet. Jet fuel emissions also contain soot which is an air pollutant that causes human health degradation.)
Dr. Ross N. Hoffman, states in his paper, “Controlling The Global Weather:” “…Our goal is not to change the climate, but to control the precise timing and paths of weather systems…because of the intensive coupling of the weather over different regions of the globe, nothing short of control of the global weather should be considered. The nation that controls its own weather will necessarily control the weather of other nations…” What are the legal and ethical questions presented by controlling the weather or changing the weather in certain areas across the United States?
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