It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature [Archive] - Page 31

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-25-2005, 11:37 AM

Armadillos are an amazing group of animals that originated in South America. Armadillos are mammals (http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/armadillo/popup/mammal.html), just like you. Contrary to what you may have heard, the armadillo is neither a rodent nor a marsupial, and they are not related to the opossum any more than you are. There are twenty different species of armadillos. They belong to the order Xenarthra, family Dasypodidae. Their closest relatives are sloths and anteaters (http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/armadillo/xenarthrans.html). The most easily recognized feature of an armadillo is it’s shell (http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/resources/anatomical_images/family_pages/xenarthra/armadillo_shell.jpg). All armadillos have shells, made of true bone, that cover their backs. Most armadillos also have bony rings or plates that protect their tails. Because their backs are covered with bone, armadillos are not very flexible. Although one species — the three-banded armadillo (http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/armadillo/tolypeutes.html) — can roll itself into a ball, none of the others can do so. They rely on speed or their digging ability to escape danger.

Armadillos are built to dig. They have short, strong legs (http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/resources/anatomical_images/family_pages/xenarthra/dasypodidae_limbs.jpg) that are well suited to rapid digging, either for food or for shelter. Like their cousins, the sloth (http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/armadillo/pics/two-toed_sloth2.jpg) and anteater (http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/armadillo/pics/giant_anteater2.jpg), armadillos have strong claws (http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/resources/anatomical_images/family_pages/xenarthra/xenarthran_claws.jpg). They use them to help in digging, or to tear apart rotting wood to find food. Armadillos eat a wide variety of different foods, ranging from insects to plants. Most armadillos eat small invertebrates like ants, beetles, and grubs. Many of them also eat bits of flesh from dead animals when they can find them. Most armadillos also eat plants, and some species — like the giant armadillo (http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/armadillo/priodontes.html) — can cause quite a bit of agricultural damage if they happen to wander into a farmer’s field. Because small bugs and soft plants are not too difficult to chew, armadillos do not have very complicated teeth. They have lost all but their molars over time, and the teeth that remain are peg-shaped (http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/resources/anatomical_images/family_pages/xenarthra/dasypodidae.jpg). Armadillo teeth do not have the hard white enamel coating that protects the teeth of other mammals.

Many species of armadillo are endangered or threatened. Human encroachment, slash-and-burn farming, hunting, and deaths due to domestic dogs account for a large percentage of the problem. Of the twenty species of armadillo, only one — the nine-banded armadillo (http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/armadillo/dasypus.html#novemcinctus) — appears to be increasing in number. In the last hundred years or so, the nine-banded armadillo has expanded its home range northward into the United States. Armadillos have moved as far west as Colorado and as far north as Nebraska, with occasional sightings even farther north. Cold weather will eventually stop the spread of the armadillo, as they cannot tolerate even relatively short periods of extreme cold — they do not have large fat reserves to help insulate their bodies.

What can I find on this website?

This website is entirely devoted to the armadillo. There are pictures for eight species, and biological information on all twenty species — the most complete collection of factual armadillo information on the internet. There is a short article diagramming the natural history of the armadillo, a quick fact file for fun, and a short description of the scientific and medical research uses of the armadillo. This site also contains a page discussing common problems caused by armadillos, complete with suggestions on how to solve them. Please browse the site, or try a search if you are looking for anything specific. If you can’t find what you are looking for on this website, you can check the armadillo links, or email me if you have a question that is not answered here. I hope you find this site to be helpful, and thank you for visiting Armadillo Online!

Why an armadillo page?

You may be asking yourself, “What kind of nut would devote an entire page to armadillos? Why does this page even exist?” Well, here is your answer. In a world that is losing its biodiversity (http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/armadillo/popup/biodiversity.html) at an alarming rate, every animal should be taken seriously, not just as a part of the world we share but as a reservoir of genetic information that could be invaluable in the future. People seem to have a tendency to save only the “cute” animals, but each one is as important as any other. “So, why armadillos?” you ask. “Aren’t there thousands of them all over the southwest?” The answer is yes — there are quite a few armadillos in the United States and Mexico. However, all of these animals represent only one species (http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/armadillo/popup/species.html) of ’dillo, the nine-banded armadillo ( Dasypus novemcinctus ). This is only one of about twenty kinds of armadillo, and several of the others are endangered. The pink fairy armadillo (http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/armadillo/chlamyphorus.html) ( Chlamyphoras truncatus ) is restricted to several small arid regions of South America, and the giant armadillo (http://www.msu.edu/~nixonjos/armadillo/pics/p_maximus-museum.jpg) ( Priodontes maximus ) has been hunted extensively both as a food source and as an agricultural pest. If this is new information to you, then you should check out the rest of this page. I hope that in some small way this page might encourage others to take a good long look at other “unimportant” species before we lose them forever.

Links marked with this icon [] will leave the Armadillo Online website.

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Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-25-2005, 11:41 AM

Nail Art (http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.nailpro.com/new/artgalry.asp)
Nail Polish Names (http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.pbs.org/newshour/infocus/fashion/namegame.html)

Noxema
In 1914, a skin cream was invented by Baltimore pharmacist George Bunting. The name of the skin cream "Dr. Bunting's Sunburn Remedy" was changed to Noxema after a customer swore that the cream had "knocked out his eczema."

Sunscreen/Tanning Lotions

In the early 1930's, South Australian chemist, HA Milton Blake, experimented to produce a sunburn cream.
The founder of L'Oreal, chemist Eugene Schueller, invented the first sunscreen in 1936.
In 1944, Florida pharmacist, Benjamin Green invented a suntan cream in his kitchen that became "Coppertone Suntan Cream."
In 1980, Coppertone developed the first UVA/UVB sunscreen.
Q-tips
Look under cotton swabs (http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blbeauty.htm#q) above.

Vaseline Petroleum Jelly
Vaseline petroleum jelly was patented on May 14, 1878.

RELATED INNOVATIONS
The History of Perfume (http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blperfume.htm)
Razors and the History of Shaving (http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blrazor.htm)
The History of Soap and Detergents (http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blsoap.htm)
Home Innovations (http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blhome.htm)
History of Cosmetics (http://beauty.about.com/cs/cosmetichistory/index.htm)
Bed Warmers (http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://homepage.dtn.ntl.com/paul.linnell/electricity/bedwarmers.html)
A Colorful History of Makeup and Cosmetics (http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://influx.uoregon.edu/1999/makeup/history.html)
Compacts from 1933 (http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.the%2Dforum.com/collect/wf33comp.htm) ©Mary Bellis (http://inventors.about.com/mbiopage.htm)

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-25-2005, 11:42 AM

This hearty annual or bienniel, Brassicca napus, superficially resembles the common turnip, Brassica rapa. However, the rutabaga is endowed with more carbohydrates, sugars and vitamin C, has a firmer flesh (as the interminable cooking times will attest) and keeps longer.

Though the early history of the rutabaga remains obscure, the name is derived from the Swedish words for "thick root." The rutabaga can be cultivated in the most marginal climates and soils of places like Scandanavia, Finland and Ireland. Until the importation of the potato from South America in the mid-16th century, entire populations on the fringes of Europe were sustained by the rutabaga and the less-worthy turnip.

In the author's Irish ancestral homeland, the rutabaga was quickly supplanted by the potato despite the latter's inferior taste and nutritional value. The author's research indicates that the popularity of the potato in Ireland was more a consequence of its suitability for the manufacture of poteen, a form of whiskey or liquor that could be easily distilled from the potato in modest home stills. Previous efforts to extract liquor from the rutabaga proved disappointing, notwithstanding the traditional ingenuity of certain of his ancestors in this regard.

Rutabaga storage sheds near the boyhood home
of Obie MacAroon I, Troutlake, Washington

The Rutabaga: The Original Jack O'Lantern

It is well known that the Christian feast day Hallowmas, or All Saint's Day, was meant to usurp the ancient druidic rites and other pagan celebrations of the fall harvest and the onset of darkness. On the last night of October, the druids set bonfires across the land to protect themselves from the spirits of the dead which freely roamed. Soothsayers proclaimed visions of the future after ritually jumping over rows of candles. This Celtic festival of Samhain was also a night of ghosts and demons, with rowdy bands of children known as "guisers" prowling the streets in hideous masks.

The rutabaga, fruit of the subterranean darkness, was a central fixture of the Samhain. The young guisers carried "jack o'lanterns" carved from rutabagas (or turnips), a tradition based on the legend of a blacksmith named Jack who mortgaged his soul to the demons of the underworld. Jack found his way through the netherworld by hoisting a large hollowed rutabaga containing a glowing coal. Unfortunately, this noble tradition has been undermined by the modern introduction of the upstart pumpkin, Cucurbita pepo, to replace the ancient rutabaga as the jack o'lantern. Cucurbita pepois a pulpy and malodorous gourd, consisting mainly of seeds and a stringy mass at its center. It is inedible without the addition of vast quantities of sugar and cinnamon. Revisionist etymologists have begun to challenge the widespread assumption, fostered by the Anglican church and others, that "Hallowe'en" is derived from "All Hallows Eve." Ancient Celtic manuscripts, recently uncovered, refer to "Hollow's Eve" in clear reference to the hollowed rutabagas which the guisers carried. The modern "Hallowe'en" is therefore nothing more than a convenient mistranslation and contraction of the the Celtic "Evening of the Hollowed Rutabagas." Thus our culture has lost a splendid metaphor: the fecund and tenacious rutabaga defying the sense of growing darkness, loss and emptiness associated with the season. We have also lost, as a staple in our diets, a tasty, inexpensive, colorful and nutritious root.

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-25-2005, 11:45 AM

Having fun yet, you fuck?

Here goes the MEAT!

http://www.publiceye.org/racism/white-supremacy.html

What is the White Order of Thule? What is the Creativity movement (WCOTC)? What is the National Alliance? What is Hammerskin Nation? What is Aryan Nations?

(http://www.publiceye.org/racism/white-supremacy.html#Nordic-myths)
Where did these groups get their ideas?

Note that Christianity, paganism, pantheism, Odinism, and the Nordic heroic warrior myths do not automatically intersect with either White supremacy or antisemitism. This chart only shows specific lines of intellectual influence.

While members of the White Order of Thule practice a form of Odinism or Asatru, only a few followers of these pagan beliefs are White supremacist neonazis. Many pagan websites post disclaimers denouncing hate to make the distinction clear. See for example: ÁSATRÚ: An ancient, but ever new religion, (http://www.earth-dancing.com/icelandicasatru.htm) with the disclaimer: "We promote equality, harmony and tolerance between all people of ethnic diversity, gender orientation, educational background, and religious/spiritual preference."

While "Wotan" is one of the many names for the Norse god Odin, in White supremacist circles the name WOTAN is also used as an acronym for "Will Of The Aryan Nations." Find out more about the original myths of Odin (http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Odin) at Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia of pagan information. Visit our collection of Nordic myth sites (http://www.publiceye.org/racism/white-supremacy.html#Nordic-myths).

The Creativity movement was founded by Ben Klassen who wrote a series of books about his idiosyncratic philosophy. The current leader is Matt Hale. According to Klassen, his religion--Creativity--is the recognition that the natural destiny of the White Race is to rule the world and thus fulfill the purpose of the universe. To attain this destiny, it is necessary to destroy the enemies and race traitors who prevent this from happening. The primary enemies are Jews, Blacks and other "mud people," and White race traitors, including most Christians. Klassen credits the influence of Hitler's Mein Kampf in the development of his views. Creativity may be a despicable religion, but it can claim to be a religion because it aspires to an understanding of the purpose of life, seeks transcendence, and has an articulated set of beliefs and rituals.

What Klassen did was to pick up ideas from the theories of Nietzsche, pantheisim, Odinism, and Celtic paganism as filtered through German Nazi retelling of the Norse heroic warrior myths, to create a religion of Aryanist White supremacy. Discarding the details, he created a form of cosmotheism in which the supreme power is the collective will of the Aryan race. The duty of every member of the Aryan race is to reflect the ideals of the heroic warrior and do battle with the enemies of the race. The group's battle cry is RAHOWA, which stands for RAcial HOly WAr. Like other forms of fascism, the idea of action is central to the philosophy, as is the celebration of violence and the spilling of blood as part of a rite of passage to full adulthood. While this ideas was originally a concept of men and manhood, it has been extended to include women and womanhood. Some do not see this as progress for feminist ideas. When some people examine Klassen's book The White Man's Bible, they accurately point out that it does not seem to clearly articulate a religious viewpoint. This is true, however, the earlier book, Nature's Eternal Religion is the foundation document of the religion. The White Man's Bible is more of a handbook for clean living. Another Klassen book is On the Brink of a Bloody Racial War: With the White Race Targeted for Extermination.
I decided to formulate a new religion for the White Race that would lead it out of the quagmire of Jewish entrapment, out of despair and degradation, and into the bright light of greatness, to the heights of the wonderful destiny that Nature herself, in her great wisdom, has destined for this magnificent race." p. 444.

In White Man's Bible, Klassen writes:
"The niggers is (sic) the vital means of bastardizing the White Race…The Jews are therefore madly pushing a program of upgrading the niggers and pulling down the White." The suggested solution is to ship Blacks back to Africa, "drive the Jews from power and render them harmless," and "hang the traitors of our own race." p. 184See cite to Mein Kampf as influence, Nature's Eternal Religion, p. 440.

Benjamin Nathaniel Smith went on a shooting rampage in 1999 in Illinois and Indiana, targeting Jews, Blacks and Asians. He then killed himself. Smith was influenced by the World Church of the Creator.

Klassen's words are reprinted by Hale as part of a public statement in the WCOTC newsletter The Struggle, that includes the claim: "Our Church does not condone or advocate violence or illegality in any way." The Struggle, Issue XC, Dec. XXIXAC, p. 12

In his article "Creativity's Strategy for White Victory," Hale makes it clear that the call for nonviolence is merely a temporary tactic. Hale cites Klassen's admonition to use legal means to win the struggle. "We must spread the message of Creativity legally so that we can continue to spread it, rather than wind up in jail." Matt Hale, "Creativity's Strategy for White Victory."

Yet the WCOTC philosophy makes it clear that once in power, the Church will create the conditions whereby people of color, Jews, and White "race traitors" will wither away and eventually disappear off the face of the Earth. This fits the UN definition of genocide.

Hale writes: "It cannot be denied that Ben Klassen envisioned that one day, there would probably be an all-out war with the mud races. After all, he did not speak the words 'RAHOWA! This Planet is Ours!" for nothing. In Nature's Eternal Religion, he describes how once we get the White Race's thinking straight, the White Race will cease to subsidize the mud races, and they shall wither on the vine. Then, the White Race under the banner of Creativity shall expand its territory until all the good lands of this planet earth are ours. The mud races may very well offer some resistance and that resistance will have to be destroyed."

While this call for future genocide is clear, Hale repeats his call for nonviolence at the present time. The intrinsic heroic warrior theme of Creativity, however, rebuts that claim because it makes it clear that "real" masculine men take action against their enemies and advance their race. This creates a dynamic whereby followers of Creativity could easily decide to increase their status through aggression or even violence against their enemies.

Like many devotees of racial Aryanism, Hitlerism, and Nordicism, activists in the World Church of the Creator are fans of imperial Rome. This started with founder Klassen, who called himself Pontifex Maximus, the title in Latin used by all subsequent leaders. The Church newsletter, The Struggle, in recent years has sported Roman numeral years and issue numbers. One issue included a notice on how to obtain a language course for learning Latin. "Interested in Learning Latin?" The Struggle, Issue LXXXVII, Sept. XXIXAC, p. 5

The back page of Issue XC (90) held a hand drawn Roman Legionnaire with a WCOTC shield and a sword battling a snake with a Star of David on its tail and a caricature of a "Jew's" face complete with stereotypic (antisemitic) features. The Struggle, Issue XC, Dec. XXIXAC, p. 12

In another issue there is an article by Brother Donald Hansard, "Greatness," which proclaims, "When most of us look to the past and see those who have achieved greatness, we think about the likes of the Romans, the Third Reich, and the Babylonians…. With the Romans, it was Augustus and Hadrian along with a few other emperors who showed the people of Rome the truth about the Jews. With the Third Reich, it was Adolf Hitler, Joseph Goebels, and Rudolf Hess along with a few others who would take Germany back from the Jews and restore the German pride the Jews had stolen." Donald Hansard, "Greatness." The Struggle, Issue LXXXIX, Nov. XXIXAC, p. 5.

The Imperial Romans and the Nordic Aryan Nazis are seen as the racial ancestors of White men in the U.S. in this formulation.

According to WCOTC teachings, Christianity is just another form of Judaism.

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-25-2005, 11:46 AM

Their Theosophy ideology became popular amongst the middle classes in Germany at the end of the 1800's, mostly because of its introduction to Eastern religious and mystical ideas. Blavatsky claimed to have been party to revelations from Hidden Masters called the "Great White Brotherhood" who resided somewhere in the Himalayas. But Blavatsky later admitted in letters to her sister that this was a codename for the Rosicrucian hierarchy who funded her. It is clear her work is influenced, if not sourced, in the work of Masonic demagogue General Albert Pike - the American South's Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, Civil War war criminal, and leading member of the Ku Klux Klan - who revealed Rosicrucian/Masonic doctrine and its "Aryan heritage" in his unpublished pamphlet Morals & Dogma (1871) that was distributed to Sublime Prince of the Royal Secret (32nd degree) Scottish Rite initiates.

Albert Pike is regarded as bringing "order out of chaos" by rewriting the ancient rites of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, formerly devised by groups in France including the Council of the Emperors of the East and West (now known as the European Council of Princes) and the Royal Stewart's Chapter of Clermont, based at the College of the Jesuits, Paris in 1761. Pike modernized these rituals for the modern American leader, and explained their Aryan source and meaning in Morals & Dogma and numerous other works. At this time Pike was head of the Supreme Council of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, based in Charleston, South Carolina, and following the Civil War and dropped charges of treason against Pike, the Supreme Council moved to Washington DC.

Blavatsky's breakthrough book The Secret Doctrine (1888) was an attempt to popularize the racist concepts of Rosicrucian belief at a time of great change and turmoil. America was recovering from the Civil War, and the abolition of Slavery was forcing a redefinition of the West's perception of Race. The radical decision to reveal the beliefs of the power elite came at a time when desperate measures seemed necessary. The Priory of Sion within the Royal Houses of Europe and various occult circles were attempting to create a movement with their Synarchy ideology, a politicized form of Rosicrucian dogma. Synarchy advocated government by secret society - an elite of enlightened initiates who rule from behind the scenes. This found expression through the writings of Joseph Saint-Yves d'Alveydre, which called for the infiltration of "the three key pillars of society... political and social institutions, economic institutions, and religious institutions". The infamous Protocols of the Learned Elders of Sion (commonly known by its Old English variant "Zion") are clearly some form of manifesto for the implementation of Synarchy's aims, and are signed by the "representatives of Sion of the 33rd degree". Not surprisingly, the content of the Protocols have much similarity to Albert Pike's central work Morals and Dogma (http://www.freemasonwatch.freepress-freespeech.com/albertpikeandkkk.html). Synarchy was opposed to ideas of democracy and social equality, as only the Synarchists were the "natural leaders".

As the masses of Europe were rising up rebelliously against their feudal overlords, the Holy Roman Empire was in disarray. The First Reich, founded in 800 by the 'Emperor of the West' Charlemagne, had been smashed by Napoleon following the French Revolution. With Napoleon's eventual defeat, the Holy Roman Empire reformed in a weakened and splintered state. Prussia/Germany took the former Gnostic Cathar regions of Lorraine and Alsace back from revolutionary France, and established the Second Empire under Kaiser Wilhelm I. He was allied with the Austrian-Hungarian-Croatian Empire, which was still under the control of the Grail bloodline House of Habsburg, who had been ruling for the previous 600 years. Power was still very much in the hands of the Princes of Europe and the Vatican, who found unity within their occult "Secret Church" that has historically always existed behind the "Visible Church".
(http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/intro_dragoncourt.html)
Theosophy was born in 1875, a key time of political upheavals throughout Europe, as Russia was moving towards revolution, following the examples set by America and France. The Theosophy movement was an attempt to occultize the newly emerging industrial and merchant class and provide a spiritual antidote to Marxism straight from the Rosicrucian (http://www.geocities.com/newworldorderthemovie/intro_rosicrucianism.html) philosophy that previously had been for hand-picked initiates only. The Grail aristocratic families of the Holy Roman Empire were planning to reunify the old territories and needed the control and support of the managing classes. It is no coincidence that their plan to "infiltrate Freemasonry and seize absolute control of the Western World's social, political and economic institutions" as outlined in the Protocols of Sion appeared simultaneously with the Synarchy ideology and the creation of Madame Blavatsky's Theosophy movement. As the Protocols stress "Our philosophers will discuss all the shortcomings of the various beliefs of the manipulated. But no-one will ever bring under discussion our faith from its true point of view since this will be fully learned by none save ours who will never dare betray its secrets".

At the turn of the 20th century this agenda was again outlined in the Priory of Sion's Hieron du Val D'Or that described "a theocracy wherein nations will be no more than provinces, their leaders but proconsuls in the service of a world occult government consisting of an elite. This regime of the Great King will be a double hegemony of the Papacy and the Empire, of the Vatican and of the Habsburgs". This ambitious scheme was thwarted with the assassination of the Habsburg heir Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in 1914, an event that ignited the First World War.

Theosophy's teachings about enlightened mystics guiding human evolution towards the creation of a higher super-race, and pseudo-theories about the ancient Aryan civilization of Atlantis, promoted dangerous racial theories that formed the core of Austrian and German anti-Semitism.

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-25-2005, 11:48 AM

From an aristocratic background, Helena Blavatsky, the widow of Russian Army General Count Blavatsky, designed elaborate genetic family trees that clearly illustrated the superiority of the Aryan people over the other races of the world. These strange beliefs were heralded by middle class occultists throughout Germany and Austria-Hungary and merged with their extreme right-wing nationalist politics. Hence, complete reunification of the Holy Roman Empire (http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/intro_holyromanempire.html), effectively abolished by Napoleon in 1806, became a priority not only of the ruling aristocracies, but also of the merchant middle classes.

The ensuing horrors of the First World War was an attempt to take France from the democratic Republicans by a vengeful aristocracy who had seen their brethren murdered by the French revolution. The new middle-class occultists such as Guido von List and his Armanen Order, Baron von Sebottendorf and his Thule Society, and Lanz von Liebenfels and the Order of the New Templars refered to the First World War as a Holy War, revealing the quasi-religious and philosophical motives of their Hidden Masters. It has been documented that Nazi party leaders Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Rudolph Hess and Hermann Goering were all members of these occult secret societies. The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Sion and the Hieron du Val d'Or are proof that a conspiracy of epic proportions was at play behind the broader political scene.

The end of the First World War resulted in Kaiser Wilhelm I being banished to Belgium and the removal of the Habsburgs from the throne of the Second Empire--the global "hegemony of Great King and Pope" was delayed. The Habsburg's reluctant abdication was upon the insistence of the Allied nations and their Treaty of St. Germaine. Incidentally, the Order of St. Germaine is the French Royal Stewart equivalent of the Habsburg's Order of Sion (each laying claim to genetic superiority and Kingship of Jerusalem) - such is the secret subtext of European war and politics. The magickally relevant regions of Alsace and Lorraine were promptly returned to the Republic of France through the Treaty of Versailles, which not so much infuriated a young Hitler, as his aristocratic Hidden Masters behind the curtain. While their agenda had brutally backfired, the Great White Brotherhood were by no means beaten, and a simple reversal of the truth (a common propaganda technique) would lead them ever closer to their goal, and introduce the world to perhaps their greatest spin doctor.

In his popular book Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler conveniently used the Protocols of the Elders of Sion to deceptively "prove" that a global conspiracy was afoot - but led by the League of Jewish Rabbis. This stirred massive anti-Semitism that ultimately justified the Holocaust to the German people. Earlier in 1919, the newly formed Thule Society had distributed copies of the controversial Protocols to troops of the White Russian army loyal to the Czar, in an attempt to blame the Jews for the ensuing Revolution. This led to the massacre of 60,000 Jews over two years, and was perhaps the beginning of the Jewish Holocaust. The Rosicrucian Protocols document is still used by neo-Nazi (http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/intro_neonazi.html) groups throughout the world to stir anti-Semitism and hate. Even today Rebublican David Duke promotes these same anti-Semitic theories on his popular website and continues to blame the Russian Revolution on the Jewish people, regardless of the historical oppression of the Russian people that motivated this conflict. The fact that Jerusalem's Mount Sion/Zion is prophesied (according to St. John's Revelation) as the place of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is conveniently ignored by these right-wing groups. As is the fact that the premier secret organization dedicated to this Second Coming, albeit through a complex and conflicted view of genetic bloodlines and reactionary socio-political models, is the Priory of Sion.

Although thought by many academics to be a creation of Russian Czar Nicholas II's secret police, to those aware of occult references the Protocols of Sion clearly show the hand of the Grail/Dragon sovereignty. It is likely the Czarists altered the texts to include traditional Jewish terminology that otherwise has no place in what is obviously a Rosicrucian agenda with Jesuit undertones.

The Yiddish word "Goyim" (meaning Gentile) has been inserted in as many places as possible, even in places grammatically inappropriate. Written in a tone of lofty superiority, echoed in the contemporary writings of Nicholas De Vere, the masses are refered to throughout as "the Mob", "bloodthirsty beasts", "alcoholized animals" and "cattle". Passages such as "From the premier-dictators of the day the peoples suffer greatly and bear such abuses, as for the least of them they would have beheaded twenty kings... unification must be achieved only under our Sovereign rule", clearly reveal an embittered post-French Revolution power elite planning to restore the "King of the blood of Sion whom we are preparing for the World".

Also overlooked in the analysis of the Protocols is their similarity to the little heard of "Secret Instructions of the Society of Jesus", which outline a goal of bringing in a golden age or millenium with the entire world under the authority of the Pope to enable the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Indeed, the Jesuits' Secret Instructions could be considered a prototype of the Protocols of Sion with its rhetoric of subterfuge such as "We must inculcate this doctrine with Kings and Princes, that the Catholic faith cannot exist in the present state, without politics; but that in this, it is necessary to proceed with much certainty. Of this mode, we must share the affection of the great, and be admitted to the most secret councils."

"We must be careful to change our politics, conforming to the times, and excite the Princes, friends of ours to mutually make terrible wars that everywhere the mediation of the Society will be implored; that we may be employed in the public reconciliation... the Society afterwards can count on the favor and authority of the Princes, procuring that those who do not love us shall fear us."

Discovered towards the end of the Holy Roman Empire's Thirty Year War with itself that resulted in France being given part of Alsace and Lorraine (only to be later reclaimed by the Second and Third Empires) and cities ruined and millions dead, the Jesuits' Secret Instructions clearly are an inspirational source for the Protocols of Sion, which would be written 200 years later following the formation of Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite Freemasonry. With passages such as "If the Pope should return as temporal prince of all the properties; for as much as it is very necessary to extend little by little, with much secrecy and skill, the temporalities of the Society; and not having any doubt that the world will enter the Golden Age" there can be no doubt that The Protocols of the Elders of Sion are the work of the Jesuits (http://www.chick.com/catalog/books/0191.asp), the European Council of Princes, and their Rosicrucian allies within 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Freemasonry. As outlined in the final Protocol "Confirming the roots of King David and the training of the King", the Grail/Christ bloodline conspirators insist that "sensuality worse than all else disorganizes the capacities of the mind and clearness of views" and should not be a quality of their King - thus denying any instinctive connection to his humanity in true Jesuit and Rosicrucian style. There is little in Judaism about the repressing of the senses in order to achieve any kind of kinghood.

Following the widespread distribution of the Protocols by the Thule Society and Hitler's protege Alfred Rosenberg, it was the added "Jewish" elements that were seized upon by Hitler's Mein Kampf and Henry Ford's The International Jew. Conveniently both of these fervantly anti-Semitic works chose to ignore the Rosicrucian references of the Protocols, and the fact that the "Return of the King" agenda is not traditionally Jewish or a historical goal of Jewish Zionism, but the secret goal of the Catholic/Rosicrucian/Grail elites.

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-25-2005, 11:49 AM

Hitler's Third Empire would go one step further than Theosophy, taking Rosicrucian and Occult theories directly to the working class people of Germany, and openly running the country according to their principles. Their use of Rosicrucian symbolism, the Swastika, the Nuremberg rallies/rituals, and inner occult orders within Himmler's "SS", who like the Knights of Malta (http://www.geocities.com/newworldorderthemovie/intro_knightsofmalta.html) and Dragon Court insisted upon a long heritage of pure Aryan blood before initiation, clearly illustrates how linked National Socialism was with the secret agenda and beliefs of the power elite. It is clear the Nazi movement was a new approach to feudalism, by the same aristocratic ruling powers. Realizing that some sense of revolution must be fulfilled in the ordinary working classes, Nazism (http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/intro_nazis.html) gave the impression of revolution, but was in fact the Restoration of the feudal overlords of the Holy Roman Empire, and the beginning of the National Socialist deception.

Hitler's personal aide escaped his clutches and fled to Britain. In 1939 he wrote an eye witness account of the madness of the Third Reich: "What will the social order of the future be like? Comrade, I will tell you. There will be a class of overlords, after them the rank and file of the party members in hierarchical order, and then the great mass of anonymous followers, servants and workers in perpetuity, and beneath them again all the conquered foreign races, the modern slaves. And over and above all these will reign a new and exalted nobility of whom I cannot speak. But of all these plans the militant members will know nothing. The new man is living amongst us now! He is here. Isn't that enough for you? I will tell you a secret. I have seen the new man. He is intrepid and cruel. I was afraid of him" - Adolf Hitler quoted from "Hitler Speaks" by Hermann Rauschning.

Hitler could not have expressed the aims of the Protocols of the Elders of Sion or the Hieron du Val d'Or more eloquently. Today the agenda of the power elite continues using its network of Occult (http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/intro_occult.html) and political structures - from the unaccountable Bilderberg Group to the elite of the Dragon Court, from the undemocratic Trilateral Commission to the transnational Knights of Malta. Through their influence and control the Synarchists continue to stay on top of the power pyramid, regardless of how much global suffering and misery is caused, and maintain the anti-democratic structures of a hidden feudalist system. By his own admission, the new head of the European Council of Princes HRH Prince Michael Stewart recently replaced HSH Prince Otto von Habsburg of Austria as chief representative of the thirty three Royal Houses of Europe. These are the thirty three Holy Grail (http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/intro_holygrail.html) bloodline royal families who bizarrely claim descent from Jesus Christ (who they believe was a Dragon high priest/king), and their historical goal remains the same. But who exactly are their allies?

Has the Western world finally and completely internalized the values of the Great White Brotherhood?

Again these same secret societies are revealing the inner secrets of their inverted belief system, in the hope of converting new followers in key positions of influence. Their philosophers continue to seduce the highest levels of the military, politics, and business, and reach out to the public through books, lectures, and the internet. While the economic and political power of 21st Century Synarchy spin doctors such as Sir Laurence Gardner and Prince Nicholas de Vere is narrow, their esteemed position and knowledge within occult circles will almost certainly reach many with genuine clout: namely high level Freemasons and Rosicrucians within the corporate-military-industrial complex. While most of the world naively believes democracy has truly replaced feudalism, the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few, with majority ownership of stocks, bonds and real estate, and even the 2000 American Presidential elections, proves the contrary. The richest 254 people in the world own more wealth than 47% of the global population.

Right-wing conspiracy theorists mistakenly believe the goal of the secret societies is a One World Utopia, or Global Socialist State, but this couldn't be further from the truth. Synarchy's "Global Village" will be ruled by the "Dark Lords from their Castles of Darkness"; reigning supreme, uncontested, and as the past has shown, plotting to starve the poor to feed the rich, while a divided middle-class competes for the scraps--a historical socio-political model that is the norm in most developing countries. Undemocratic and inaccessible political and economic organizations - whether ultra-conservative "think-tanks" or globalization commissions - ultimately harness the methodology offascism, and are the enemies of a truly democratic and open World Unity or Global Village.

The biblical struggle against the anti-Christ is not some future event - it is History, past and present, and symbolic of the struggle between anti-hero and hero, darkness and light, feudalism and democracy. (http://www.geocities.com/newworldorder_themovie/intro_feudalismvsdemocracy.html)

The likely consequences of the Occult Conspiracy suggest that the economic, political, and social decision making of individuals allied with the aims of the European aristocatic secret society network, whether in the Vatican, the British Crown, the American Government, European politics, transnational Corporations, or the vast bureaucracy of Nato's military machine, will consciously or unconsciously reflect their initiation, indoctrination, and allegiance to the Aryan/Rosicrucian white supremacist perception of the world.

Having internalized their Rulers of the Universe values, mega-corporations and conglomerates backed by the WTO and other spurious organizations, are attempting to hold the world to ransom by copyright patenting essential items for basic human survival, such as human DNA, genetically modified rice and wheat that is forced upon Third World farmers, and life-saving AIDS drugs (most of which were developed by public-funded universities). While the poorest countries face trade sanctions for trying to stay alive, more elaborate methods of "bio-piracy" are being devised to more effectively steal the natural resources of our world. As drug companies reach yearly profits of over $1.3 billion each, the power elite's starve the poor to feed the rich methodology continues into the 21st Century. Even the CIA admits in its recent Global 2015 report that the gap between rich and poor will grow greater with the effects of globalization. As South Africa's Nelson Mandela recently asked "Is there a direct link between Africa's poverty, and the Western world's wealth?" According to Rosicrucian logic, this inequality is not only necessary, butvital.

The Spider's Web of cause and effect, of safe-guarding interests, wealth, resources and position, and the seeking of supreme and ultimate power--economic, political, and magickal--ultimately opposes all progressive moves towards global democracy and freedom, human rights and social justice, which are perceived as a direct threat to the New World Order historical agenda of theGreat White Brotherhood, and their reactionary Secret Church, with all its various denominations, royal courts, orders, and covens, who find unity of purpose and intent through their Aryan white supremacist belief system.

As History has proven, the unacceptable face of Western Capitalism hides behind a Dragon's mask, and the Occult Conspiracy continues...

whitemajikman

10-25-2005, 01:04 PM

Hey WMM:

I think since you enjoy spamming the fuck out of our threads over on the Political Forum with your White Supremacist dogshit, I am going to repay you the favor.

Chemtrails, Another Internet Hoax
by Carl Worden, Liason Officer, Southern Oregon Militia

Ladies & gentlemen:

Too many people do not know what constitutes evidence. This article published back on 12/12/2000, claiming that jet contrails are an evil plot to kill off millions of people to reduce the world's population, is an elaborate hoax that a lot of people still believe is true.

It isn't, but it does reveal how easy it is to manipulate people into believing things that are preposterous.

For example, the article claims that analysis of the nasties being sprayed reveals all kinds of bugs and chemical or metal goodies that are infectious and/or poisonous to us, especially after being combined with something else later. The article claims the spraying is occurring at 20,000 feet, and then makes the leap that what is found on the ground came from those tankers spraying way up there.

Huh?? Wait a minute, unless you can take a sample directly from that "tanker" up there, you can't prove that what you found on the ground afterward came from that plane, isn't that true? That's not evidence.

The article also claims contrails normally disappear after a minute or two, but these evil chemtrails don't. Wrong again. Take a look at some of those old western movies where the director didn't notice those high contrails as he was filming. They were there for a very long time, and the boo-boo happened in several other movies that depicted an age before aircraft ever flew.

One guy in Colorado claimed he knew where the tankers were stationed. I was up for it, so we offered to send in a strike team. You never saw anyone back-pedal so fast in your life. The guy claimed they had it all under control and they'd be handling it. He never said where the planes were flying out of specifically, and they do have to land, refill and take off again, you know.

Notice how these hoaxers never give a specific person to contact with the CDC. They might give the name of a fellow hoaxer as a source, but these "experts" never have any credentials to back them or what they have to say. One time, I sent an earnest fellow $20.00 for a video tape of the "chemtrails" he filmed. In one segment it appeared that the jets criss-crossing the sky were turning the "spray" on and off. I showed it to an experienced pilot, who laughed and pointed out that the jets were hitting and leaving a body of colder air when they appeared to be turning on and off their "spray".

"How much did you say you paid for that video?", he asked. Smart aleck.

Anyway, that's the whole skinny on this Chemtrail hoax. If they really want to kill a bunch of people off, all they have to do is release Small Pox after the "elite" NWO people get vaccinated. Now THAT would be deadly, effective and very fast.

Once again, it appears this Internet hoax was put out by the Christian Identity/Aryan Nations bunch. The baloney follows.

~Carl F. Worden

Rense.com
Prototype Flu Vaccines And Chemtrail Agents Major Threat To Health (http://www.rense.com/general6/prototype.htm)
(http://www.rense.com/general6/prototype.htm)12-12-2000
http://www.rense.com/general6/prototype.htm (http://www.rense.com/general6/prototype.htm)

(http://www.rense.com/general6/prototype.htm)

IMC Editorial note: The IMC also abhors this sort of conspiracy-theorizing, and encourages solid patriots to steer clear of "chemtrails", "planet x", tack-marks", and other unprovable and ridiculous fear-mongering rumors. There are enough
real conspiracies and conspirators to go around

Go Right Ahead Fair And Balanced..........

YOUR A PATRIOT PRETENDER.............AND THATS ME BEING GENEROUS WITH MY OBSERVATIONS.........

AS FAR AS ME BEING A WHITE SUPREMACIST GOES...........I AM NOT...........IT WOULD GO AGAINST EVERYTHING THAT MAKES ME A JEW........

BUT YOUR FEEBLE LITTLE MIND WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO LISTEN TO LOGIC.........

AND AS FAR AS GEO-ENGINEERING GOES............YOUR WAY THE FUCK OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE........BUT ISN'T THAT ALWAYS THE CASE........CONSIDERING YOUR LOW I.Q. AND YOUR FALSE PATRIOTIC BANTER.........NOT TO MENTION THAT YOU BUY INTO REVISIONIST HISTORY......AND WHEN CHALLENGED.........RUN LIKE THE LITTLE THE WIND...........

YOU CALL WHAT I DO SPAMMING......AND THATS O.K.................

BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE A LONG HARD LOOK AT YOURSELF.........

YOUR A FUCKEN PUPPET........AND DON'T EVEN KNOW WHOM YOU TRULY SERVE.......

YOU HAVE NO SUBSTANCE.......AND YOU COULDN"T THINK YOUR WAY OUT OF A WET PAPER BAG IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT............ ]

BUT GUESS WHAT.......ASSHOLE.......I AM ABOUT TO TURN UP THE HEAT.......ON YOU.......AND SHOW EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM.......WHAT A CHUMP YOU REALLY ARE.......NOW IT's MY TURN TO PLAY JUDGE AND JURY............

Just Remember when all is said and done.........IT WAS YOU WHO DECIDED TO ESCALATE THIS.............

ALL BECAUSE YOU THINK YOUR SOMEBODY TO BE RECKONED WITH..........WHEN IN REALITY YOUR NOTHING BUT ANOTHER PRETENDER IN A LONG LINE OF PRETENDERS......................

LMAO

By THE WAY THINK ABOUT MY "PUPPET" REMARK........AND ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT IF IT WAS YOUR CHOICE TO POST ON THE SCIENCE FORUM......OR MINE............

IF YOU ARE TOTALLY HONEST WITH YOURSELF......YOU WOULD REALIZE THAT YOU HAVEN'T BEEN IN CONTROL FROM THE BEGINNING......

YOUR AN AUTOMATON.......AND I THINK I HAVE PROVEN IT........

WMM

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-25-2005, 02:06 PM

You're a fucking Nazi, WMM.

I don't recommend you continue to fuck with me.

You may be stupid, wrong and retarded, but I am annoying.

That trumps what you offer, fuckboy.

jayreynolds

10-25-2005, 02:59 PM

Well, whitey, I hope you are proud of yourself.
Ha.
Pass me another 'hurricane', dearie.....

whitemajikman

10-25-2005, 03:00 PM

You're a fucking Nazi, WMM.

I don't recommend you continue to fuck with me.

You may be stupid, wrong and retarded, but I am annoying.

That trumps what you offer, fuckboy.

WE SHALL SEE......ALSO SLANDER WILL NOT WORK..........I AM A JEW.......AND SO ARE YOU....EXCEPT YOU HAVE EMBRACED ZIONISM AND TURNED YOUR BACK ON THE ONE THING THAT MAKES YOU JEWISH........THE TORAH.

WMM

Insurrectionchemistry

10-25-2005, 06:00 PM

Golly Gee. We have "off-center and un-balanced" making a stink.

I can come help WMM over in your off-balanced zone----if you'd like.

whitemajikman

10-25-2005, 08:00 PM

Well, whitey, I hope you are proud of yourself.
Ha.
Pass me another 'hurricane', dearie.....

JAY, I AM..............

VERY PROUD............

BECAUSE I AM DEFENDING HISTORY.........AND MORE IMPORTANTLY I AM DEFENDING THE NON-ZIONIST JEW.......AS MYSELF.........

AS FAR AS YOU GO YOU HAVE BECOME QUITE INSIGNIFICANT DUE TO THE INFORMATION THAT IS FINALLY COMING FORWARD WHICH PUTS YOU IN A HYPOCRITICAL LIGHT ONE THAT YOU HAVE ADHERED TO AND HAVE PROMOTED FOR MANY YEARS.................FIND A NEW THREAD...........OR FEEL MY FUCKEN WRATH................IT'S UP TO YOU.........YOU PSYCHOPATH...........

WMM

whitemajikman

10-25-2005, 08:06 PM

Golly Gee. We have "off-center and un-balanced" making a stink.

I can come help WMM over in your off-balanced zone----if you'd like.

JIM PLEASE FEEL FREE.......

WMM

Insurrectionchemistry

10-25-2005, 08:20 PM

The first thing to take note of is that when one sees this "Fair and Balanced" Logo being flaunted around is to suspect and expect a highly radical Rush Limbaugh / Bill O'Reiley type methods of the GOP.

It usually means just the opposite of "Fair and Balanced," and they have a war agenda to promote, methods to promote division like the GOP and Bush Neo-Cons.

The true perspective is more along the line for "off-center and un-balanced" to keep most in the off-balanced zone.

It doesn't work too well, when everyone knows the technique.

It really doesn't work well when F&B isn't as good as his idols Limball and O'Really.

It doesn't take much to preach hate and make war, but it takes real peacemakers to preach that we are all part of the human race and find the ultimate ways to make the world one again and that we all live in each others care.

That is the reality check for Fair and Balanced, and somehow it seems missing.

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-25-2005, 10:28 PM

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-25-2005, 10:30 PM

Well, whitey, I hope you are proud of yourself.
Ha.
Pass me another 'hurricane', dearie.....

He's a White Supremacist, and I've caught him posting at a White Nationalist Forum, COMPLETE WITH SWASTIKA.

What do you say to that, Whitemajicswine?

halva

10-25-2005, 10:43 PM

Typical of self-destroying Reynolds, when the evidence becomes unshakeable that he is losing and has lost the fight at the level of mainstream political discussion, he sends an e-mail to bring in some of his goon sidekicks, as if people can be intimidated over the internet as they can in real life.

Careful Raynolds that while you are wasting your time with this nonsense at Arianna's your government doesn't pass some law that puts you and your farm out of business.

halva

10-25-2005, 11:03 PM

He's a White Supremacist, and I've caught him posting at a White Nationalist Forum, COMPLETE WITH SWASTIKA.

What do you say to that, Whitemajicswine?

And even these fucking goons, as if their system is not stealing enough already, proceed by STEALING OTHER PEOPLE'S ARGUMENTS AND GRIEVANCES.

If WMM is to be charged with being a White Supremacist, let it at least be a black person who is charging him.

Got any black comrades to bring into your fight, fuckface Fair and Balanced?

Or are you a black man yourself?

We don't need to be geniuses to know for certain that you are not.

halva

10-26-2005, 03:11 AM

http://www.copvcia.com/free/ww3/102505_world_stories.shtml#0

[All things become their opposites. Secessionism used to represent the feudal regime of slaveholders in the South. They wanted their energy to come from kidnapped Africans, instead of coal. Today secessionism represents one of a very few alternatives to incipient feudalism, and today’s secessionists want their energy to come from renewables and decreased consumption – instead of from militarized petroleum, vanishing natural gas, and a huge reserve of American prison labor.

Having lived in Vermont for three years, I can report that the state is blessed with a large number of historically aware, kind, decent men and women who care about each other and the planet. There are also quite a few Petro-troglodytes in the Green Mountain State whose giant red pickup trucks sport the Confederate flag. Yes, this means racism, and yes, it means desecrating the memory of the Vermonters who gave their lives for the Union in the Civil War. But the tiny kernel of good in that bizarre decal choice is coming out now. If secession from corporate domination is what the Redneck North meant all along by that sticker, then let them live up to it now. -- JAH]

Jumping From the Sinking Ship of Empire: Vermonters Move to Secede From USA
Saturday, October 22, 2005

http://peakoilanarchy.blogspot.com/

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

James Howard Kunstler, author of the book about Peak Oil The Long Emergency, will be the keynote speaker at The Vermont Convention on Independence to be held in the House Chamber of the State House in Montpelier, VT on Friday, October 28th, 2005. Sponsored by the Second Vermont Republic, the convention, which will begin at 9 am and conclude at 5 pm, is open to the public and free of charge. This historic event will be the first statewide convention on secession in the United States since North Carolina voted to secede from the Union on May 20, 1861.

Organizers of the convention say it has two objectives: First, to raise the level of awareness of Vermonters of the feasibility of independence as a viable alternative to a nation which has lost its moral authority and is unsustainable. And second, to provide an example and a process for other states and nations which may be seriously considering separatism, secession, independence, and similar devolutionary strategies. The Second Vermont Republic describes itself as "a peaceful, democratic, grassroots, libertarian populist movement committed to the return of Vermont to its status as an independent republic as it once was between 1777 and 1791."

Earlier this year, Vermont secession activists published their opening salvo, the Middlebury Institute Letter. It declared: "We believe that, of the options open to those who would dissent from the actions and institutions of a government grown too big and unwieldy and its handmaiden corporate sponsors grown too powerful and corrupt, the only comprehensive and practical one is some form of separatism. Exploring this option is not a step to be taken lightly, because there are established forces that will hamper and resist, and yet it is a legal and viable enterprise, squarely in the American tradition...

"Moreover, the accumulating signs point to a series of major crises that will seriously disrupt and may even destroy the American system in the near future. These include economic disruptions in the wake of global “peak oil” production before 2010, deterioration of the power of the dollar through mounting and uncontrollable national debt and trade imbalances, continued degradation of vital ecosystems on which the nation depends, climate change and severe weather causing widespread devastation of coastal areas, extended use of military force worldwide leading to increased terrorism and the reinstitution of the draft, [and] judicial takeovers at the Federal level by rightwing ideologues capable of altering fundamental legal rights... Those who want to absent and cushion themselves from suchlike devastations would reasonably want to explore ways of removing their communities and regions from dangerous national political and economic mechanisms that are incapable of reform."

Read the complete Middlebury Institute Letter (http://www.vermontrepublic.org/writings/middinstltr.html)

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-26-2005, 07:19 AM

And even these fucking goons, as if their system is not stealing enough already, proceed by STEALING OTHER PEOPLE'S ARGUMENTS AND GRIEVANCES.

If WMM is to be charged with being a White Supremacist, let it at least be a black person who is charging him.

Got any black comrades to bring into your fight, fuckface Fair and Balanced?

Or are you a black man yourself?

We don't need to be geniuses to know for certain that you are not.

You see my avatar? That's really me. I am White and Black and Christian and Muslim and Jew. I am Gay and Straight and Male and Female. I am speaking for ALL people united, because that is my right as a Human Being.

It doesn't take a Black Man to catch Whitemajicman posting at a Nazi forum for White Supremacists. I provided a link on another thread.

So FUCK you and all the fucking loonies that post over here. You fuckers just STAY over here, and everything will be fine.

You loons are a lot easier to dig shit up on, because you're all over the fucking place.

Insurrectionchemistry

10-26-2005, 07:42 AM

FB suffers from delusions of grandeur, as he/she/it does not speak for anyone here.

FB seems to have a large case of diaper rash, which he treats with sniffing excessive talcom powder, clogging his reason.

FB does not even gain other's respect, when he/she/it leads off with a 6-year old's potty mouth, and Big Johnson obcession. In fact, FB looses all respect from the intellectual set with just about every word.

FB is a pariah.

halva

10-26-2005, 08:00 AM

whitemajikman

10-26-2005, 09:33 AM

You see my avatar? That's really me. I am White and Black and Christian and Muslim and Jew. I am Gay and Straight and Male and Female. I am speaking for ALL people united, because that is my right as a Human Being.

It doesn't take a Black Man to catch Whitemajicman posting at a Nazi forum for White Supremacists. I provided a link on another thread.

So FUCK you and all the fucking loonies that post over here. You fuckers just STAY over here, and everything will be fine.

You loons are a lot easier to dig shit up on, because you're all over the fucking place.

YOU JUST OPENED A CAN OF WORMS........

GET READY TO BE DEBUNKED BOTH PUBLICLY AND PRIVATELY........

AS FOR DIGGING SHIT UP........

YOU HAVE USE OF GOOGLE AND OTHER SEARCH ENGINES.........BUT THATS ABOUT IT.....

COMPARED TO MY RESOURCES........

YOUR A PIMPLE ON THE ASS OF HUMANITY.......

BUT JUST REMEMBER ASSHOLE........YOU WERE THE ONE WHO STARTED THIS......

AND YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WILL SUFFER FOR IT.......

WMM

whitemajikman

10-26-2005, 09:39 AM

I don't think many of us here are all that keen to leave the 'Science in the News' section and pursue Fair and Balanced into the other parts of Arianna's where the retards post.

So if that last post meant that the individual will stay away from here if we stay away from the rest of the forum, I for one have no problems accepting those terms, even if I resent making any concessions to a person such as him.

WAYNE I AM TRULY SORRY FOR THIS PRICK TAINTING THE SCIENCE FORUM.........

BUT WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE YOU KNOW DEEP IN YOUR HEART I WILL NOT BACK DOWN.......THIS GUY IS AKIN TO JAY REYNOLDS MINUS THE BRAIN........

IN A FEW SHORT DAYS...........FAIR AND BALANCED WILL NOT EVEN SHOW HIS FACE AT ARIANNA'S EVER AGAIN......UNLESS IT'S UNDER ANOTHER I.D. .........BUT EVEN THEN IF ANYONE FINDS OUT IT IS HIM ........HE WILL BE REDICULED BEYOND IMAGINATION.....

LAST NIGHT I DID JUST A QUICK SCAN ON THIS GUY........

AND I KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT HIM........AND HIS LITTLE GAME HE HAS BEEN PLAYING ON ARIANNA'S FOR A LONG TIME.........

WHEN THE POSTERS FIND OUT.......

NO ONE WILL GIVE THIS CHUMP THE TIME OF DAY........

WMM

halva

10-26-2005, 10:13 AM

OK, but please don't just keep him here rather than doing all the things to him that you say you can do and are going to do.

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-26-2005, 10:22 AM

WAYNE I AM TRULY SORRY FOR THIS PRICK TAINTING THE SCIENCE FORUM.........

BUT WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE YOU KNOW DEEP IN YOUR HEART I WILL NOT BACK DOWN.......THIS GUY IS AKIN TO JAY REYNOLDS MINUS THE BRAIN........

IN A FEW SHORT DAYS...........FAIR AND BALANCED WILL NOT EVEN SHOW HIS FACE AT ARIANNA'S EVER AGAIN......UNLESS IT'S UNDER ANOTHER I.D. .........BUT EVEN THEN IF ANYONE FINDS OUT IT IS HIM ........HE WILL BE REDICULED BEYOND IMAGINATION.....

LAST NIGHT I DID JUST A QUICK SCAN ON THIS GUY........

AND I KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT HIM........AND HIS LITTLE GAME HE HAS BEEN PLAYING ON ARIANNA'S FOR A LONG TIME.........

WHEN THE POSTERS FIND OUT.......

NO ONE WILL GIVE THIS CHUMP THE TIME OF DAY........

WMM

Good luck on that, pinhead. You're still posting this ALL CAP nonsense over at the Political forum, so I take it you want me over here too.

You're a fucking nutcase. Why DO you type in all caps, White Supremacist Man? Is that because your TRUTH is so small you have to make the letters BIG?

You ain't got shit on me, fuckface. I even post with my own photo in my avatar. I have nothing to hide, unlike YOU, ya fucking cockroach.

TAINT this forum? Hah! I've never seen such an assortment of crazies.

You claim you WILL out me, you paranoid boob.

I already DID out you.

That's the difference. You're full of shit, and I've GOT you.

whitemajikman

10-26-2005, 10:46 AM

Good luck on that, pinhead. You're still posting this ALL CAP nonsense over at the Political forum, so I take it you want me over here too.

You're a fucking nutcase. Why DO you type in all caps, White Supremacist Man? Is that because your TRUTH is so small you have to make the letters BIG?

You ain't got shit on me, fuckface. I even post with my own photo in my avatar. I have nothing to hide, unlike YOU, ya fucking cockroach.

TAINT this forum? Hah! I've never seen such an assortment of crazies.

You claim you WILL out me, you paranoid boob.

I already DID out you.

That's the difference. You're full of shit, and I've GOT you.

ALL YOU HAVE IS YOUR DELUSIONS........FBWC

YOU HAVEN'T OUTED ME........BECAUSE I AM A JEW NOT A WHITE SUPREMACIST........

AND YOU ARE A ZIONIST IN LIBERAL CLOTHING.............

FACTS SPEAK LOUDER THAN YOUR BULLSHIT........

YOU SHOULD BE LUCKY I DON'T GIVE THE LINK TO THIS SITE TO ALL OF MY OTHER JEWISH ANTI-ZIONIST BRETHERN.........

IF I DID.......YOU WOULD HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO LEAVE.......

AS FOR OUTING YOU.......I ALREADY HAVE TO ANYONE PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION.....

BUT WHEN I DEBUNK YOU BOTH PUBLICLY AND PRIVATELY.........IT WILL NOT BE QUOTES TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT..........AS YOU HAVE DONE......OR ABOUT WHERE YOU HAVE POSTED........IT WILL BE ABOUT YOU THE MAN.........

YOUR CHILDHOOD......EDUCATION........RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION.....PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT.....POLITICAL AFFILIATIONS.......CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK...ETC...ETC....ETC.....

AND WILL NOT BE POSTED ON THIS SITE.......

THEN ANYONE WHO WISHES TO KNOW ABOUT YOU WILL ONLY HAVE TO GOOGLE YOUR NAME........

YOU SEE I DEBUNK WITH FACTS.....AND REALITY.......NOT SLANDER AND DECEPTION.....LIKE YOU.......

YOU STARTED SOMETHING THAT I WILL NOW FINISH...........

WMM

I DIDN'T MAKE A SIX FIGURE SALARY DEBUNKING FOR NOTHING......AND THATS YOUR FIRST AND LAST MISTAKE........THINKING YOU CAN SOMEHOW DIG YOUR WAY

Insurrectionchemistry

10-26-2005, 10:53 AM

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-26-2005, 10:55 AM

Fair &Balanced Who Ca

10-26-2005, 10:56 AM

Looks to me like FB is the Hitler supporting type, since he flies the Hitler signature everywhere.

Appears he suffers poor communication skills.

Some suggest FB is anti-bush, but his presentations are so fragmented no one can tell what he is supporting or not supporting.

I don't think there is going to be a truce in order to shut up WMM.

It is going to be the opposite.

Don't make me start on you, Phelps. You're even more transparent than Looney White Supremacist man. I offered a truce, but you fuckers keep bringing it.

I will offer again, just for a formality, but I know you won't take it.

I will refrain from posting on this Science (nutjob) forum for two days.

Let's see what you and WMM do.

Loonies!

whitemajikman

10-26-2005, 11:04 AM

WMM:

Don't tell me I'm lucky. Do ANYTHING you can do! Invite EVERYONE you know! Don't restrain yourself in the least!

1. I think you're a loony.

2. I don't believe you "make six figures de-bunking" anything. Internet nutjobs ALWAYS claim to be something more than what they are.

3. If "Zionist" means "person who believes Israel has a right to exist," then I am one. If "Zionist" means Neo-con, then I am NOT one. Disguised as a liberal? You fuck, in '84 I campaigned for MONDALE, from my home state of MN, and in '88 I PROUDLY campaigned for DUKAKIS. Who but the most staunch liberal would admit to THAT? I'm a John Lennon Rock and Roll Liberal, you fuckwit, and I don't CLAIM to be ANYTHING.

4. How did your lawsuit against that other forum turn out? (my guess; you were just blowing hot air, kind of like NOW)

This Science forum is one hell of a loony bin. People aiming mirrors at the sky, and "proving" the world wide Jew Conspiracy. FUCK the lot of you. You're a bunch of NUTS.

I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE.....BUT IN THE END YOU WILL BELIEVE WHAT I AM SAYING BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE NO CHOICE.........THATS WHAT THE TRUTH DOES TO PEOPLE.......

ALSO BOTH THE DEMOCRATS AND THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN INFILTRATED BY ZIONISM.......IT'S NOT JUST THE NEO-CONS............

THATS HOW IGNORANT OF THE SITUATION YOU TRULY ARE..............

BY THE WAY .........GET READY TO BE EXPOSED....OVER THE NEXT FEW DAYS.......THERE IS NO STOPPING IT......

WMM

halva

10-26-2005, 11:19 AM

Frankly I would accept this guy's offer. If it is for real.

What are you on about WMM? If you can do something to him, just do it.

Insurrectionchemistry

10-26-2005, 11:22 AM

FB can make all the threats he wants.

It won't keep anyone from talking, here or the other areas.

So, enjoy.

jayreynolds

10-26-2005, 03:33 PM

Frankly I would accept this guy's offer. If it is for real.

What are you on about WMM? If you can do something to him, just do it.
Wayne, it will be ike always, whitey has made these sorts of claims sooo any times and nothing ever comes from it.

Down here we have a saying, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

The shame is on you Wayne, bigtime.

whitey has always brought nothing but chaos and fruitless claims to any forum where he has posted. He knows it, I know it, everybody else knows it. man, you ust be dull as a board if you can't see it.
happy trails,
Jay

Oh, and BTW, I'm posting from New Orleans these days, so I can't be in germany at the same time, sorry!

Insurrectionchemistry

10-26-2005, 03:58 PM

Down in Texas and in DC they have a saying that tells: "Fool me once. Shame on you. Fool me twice---ahhhhhh, ahhhhh. " "Well anyway."

So goes the denial of GOP Dallas minds.

whitemajikman

10-26-2005, 04:29 PM

Wayne, it will be ike always, whitey has made these sorts of claims sooo any times and nothing ever comes from it.

Down here we have a saying, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

The shame is on you Wayne, bigtime.

whitey has always brought nothing but chaos and fruitless claims to any forum where he has posted. He knows it, I know it, everybody else knows it. man, you ust be dull as a board if you can't see it.
happy trails,
Jay

Oh, and BTW, I'm posting from New Orleans these days, so I can't be in germany at the same time, sorry!

Jay ask Cy........if it was him that made EZBOARD FALL...............

Then Tell Me I am Full OF Shit............if you still can.........

oh and by the way..........why don't you tell these people in what capacity you are serving in New Orleans................Ha ....your busted.........

WMM

halva

10-26-2005, 08:46 PM

Wayne, it will be ike always, whitey has made these sorts of claims sooo any times and nothing ever comes from it.

WMM is one of your old crowd Raynolds, and he still claims proudly to have been paid to be a chemtrails debunker, so what can one say. If he is such a hopeless case, you are the one who should be ashamed, not me. You're the one who brought him here. I'm just pleased that he is not an ally of yours anymore.

whitemajikman

10-27-2005, 10:41 PM

When FBWC blindsided me the other day by posting that I posted at the Nazi Green party site and accusing me of antisemitism and of being a Nazi/whitesupremacist.......saying that he "outed" me.......I Honestly could not remember why I was there and what made me post there.

Then this idiot Islander for the cup 04 says FBWC has given him enough proof that proves I am a Nazi Antisemite.

And Then of course Lib had to get on the Bandwagon and deliver his biased Slander.

Well I think you all owe me an apology......or at the very least say you were wrong in your ASSumptions...............

It took me awhile but I finally did find out why I even visited that Site.....

And Guess What Folks .......

HERE IS MY PROOF THAT I AM NOT A NAZI OR A WHITE SUPREMACIST.......

AND WHAT I WAS DOING OVER THERE WAS NOTHING SHORT OF DEBUNKING THAT NAZI SCUM.....

And as they say the "Proof is in the pudding".......

I created this Thread Here at Arianna's nov.14 2004

here it is in it's entirety.......And It was Directed at Gaiacomm.....

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16049&goto=nextoldest

Also I would like to just say that the Behaviour of the Three individuals I have Cited and their supporters are what is dividing America Today. Their Finger Pointing and arrogant assumptions that Nazi's are everywhere and hiding behind every tree, and that they are the ones who know whom is who just based upon their blind logic and lack of facts and not reality or intellectual reasoning or real evidence for that matter shows me that we are now in a state that is akin to McCarthyism. The Anti-zionist and Anti-Israelist has taken the place of the communist and it doesn't matter whether you are a republican or a democrat because both parties wish to silence the Anti-zionist and for obvious reasons.Both parties have been subverted by pro-zionist lobbies over the course of decades and is the main reason why no common ground can be found among both parties supporters but instead are always kept in a state of propaganda fueled flux where they are being manipulated to hate one another through propaganda and mis-information designed to create chaos and a eventually a "mob rules attitude" that will lead to the downfall of America and ultimately the beginning of a new Fascist Amerika that is Strictly Pro-Zionist,Pro-Globalist,and where the people have no power or right to question their own government.

whether you are a Democrat or a Republican matters very little,What does matter and what should matter to you all is that you ARE ALL AMERICAN regardless of your political leanings.
NOTHING ELSE because to continue down the path of division which currently plagues America only helps to hide the true reasons for this division.

The biggest reason is to keep the American Public unbalanced and to create unwarranted suspicion between friends,neighbors,and fellow Americans to deflect Scrutiny from the TRUE CULPRITS.

The Zionist's,The Neo-Cons,The Corporate Elite and the Filthy Rich whom have worked for decades to realize their goal of global dominance and Control.

ITS TIME TO FOR AMERICANS TO STOP POINTING FINGERS AT EACH OTHER BASED ON POLITICAL AFFILIATION AND REALIZE THAT WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER FOR THE LONG HAUL.

IT"S IMPERATIVE THAT WE SEEK OUT THE TRUE ENEMY OF AMERICA.......BUT BEFORE WE CAN WE MUST FIRST REALIZE WE HAVE BEEN USED AS PAWNS IN A GAME OF GLOBAL CHESS....WHICH HAS PITTED US AGAINST EACH OTHER.

IT"S TIME TO BREAK THOSE CHAINS THAT BOUND US TO THIS ......

IN OTHER WORDS.......WAKE THE FUCK UP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE......

WMM

whitemajikman

10-27-2005, 11:21 PM

THE ABOVE LINK IN MY POST NOW WORKS

WMM

Insurrectionchemistry

10-28-2005, 03:28 AM

I think FB has figured out that he was barking up the wrong tree. Even that lots of Jewish folks don't think much of Zionism. Exceptionally so for New York Jews, many of whom are of Democratic orientation.

FB might just come around to find the gang (most of us anyway---Reynolds excluded) here really doesn't think much of the GOP and their games to cover up either.

There are lots of faker GOP types around Ariannas, and I think FB will calm down and realize we are the folks that have much in common to his anti-GOP goals.

It seems the discussion of the Protocols got things off on a wrong foot. Some of the Zionist types have many programmed to think anyone that asks more questions along those lines is wrong.

History tells us that Europe was controlled by a banking monopoly that began as the Bauers, who later changed their names to Rothschilds. The Rothschilds manipulated the US in the Civil War, In the issues of Slavery, and were even connected to the death of Lincoln. Their goals were economic conquest of an entire continent. Unfortunately, they have been far too successful with the Fed. Res., and the control of the US by big banking all too real. Does this effort fit the Protocols directions------it does appear so.

Then the real issue becomes more like the Protocols have really predicted this economic conquest system that is part and parcel for what we call capitalism. When one gets into the problems of Russia and how Jewish types there did not like this capitalism and did not like the closely associated religion control factors of the masses that often overwhelmend the Govt's goals, then more of the protocol's associations becomes clear.

The goals stated in the Protocols are really one in the same with the orgins of Europe's big banking in usury, which stems from the Jewish control of wealth in Europe. Stems from the very differences of Jewish invented Communism with relgion and capitalism. Stems from this push to get control of the US money system, and now this push to get control of Middle East's Black Gold. And now how Zionism enters the equation for black gold, and the very origins of usury banking. The GOP worships the capitalist uncontrolled equation and the issue of the wealthy will care for the poor. Which basically hasn't worked, ever, as most turn into King Midas.

Thinking along these lines is why the Protocols issue always directly enters the discussion of Zionism and its GOP/Bush Crusade like push to kill Arabs for black gold. It is the same old, same old, ways by which religion has drowned Europe in blood for thousands of years, and how the Bush/GOP types manipulate the US population for these big banking interests that try to expand their economic influence using deceit and treachey as their forward path.

It is not much of a stretch to note that Yale is an Ivy League school interested in economic control. Its well known Skulls group worships WAR for economic gain, and the Skulls originated in Germany from those that studied the Bauer/Rothschilds methods for economic conquest. Anyone that knows the story of the Skulls and their associations with the Rothschilds methods of capitalism, well know why the Protocols came into existance as a warning of what was to come. It is all too real today. Why, because Bush is a Skull who worships crusade like wars for economic conquests. Deceit and treachery has become of the rule of GOP Govt. via hoaxed up reasons for war, cover up of environmental disasters from industry, and making the Fed. Res. richer.

It is this complex relationship that leads to the Islam interests calling the US as "The Great Satan," and the Zionists being used as the pawns to demonize the Arabs. It is the very roots for the Holy War that has drawn in the US to problems like 911 and funding Zionist Israel to the tune of some 500 dollars per person per day. And why crooked presidents like Bush and the GOP can't tell the American public the truth. The truth says Bush and company are all crooks.

So, when persons like FB bite persons that like to talk of these relationships in the rear, he is actually shooting his own self in the foot.

I predict when FB gets around to looking at the big picture, he might find a larger view of the truth of what he basically is really here for.

halva

10-28-2005, 08:02 AM

I think it is true that it is a big open question which of the two contenders in this equation: the Zionists and the predominantly English-language imperialist elite has been using the other.
Which is the tail and which is the dog.

In any case it is the task of the English-speaking global community to bring Zionism and specifically the state of Israel, under control so that it becomes at least no worse than any other local nation state, with a right of 'defense' that is in reality defense.

halva

11-07-2005, 05:37 AM

bump

halva

11-09-2005, 01:38 AM

jayreynolds

11-10-2005, 06:31 PM

Democrats winning some elections:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051109/ap_on_el_ge/elections_rdp

What deals underlie these results?

What decides when an election result has to be cooked and when not?
Depends on how much money you pour in, Wayne, for the most part. You don't get votes by "deals", you get them for money.

Oh, and it helps if you are running against an asshole, which makes winning easy.
Watch how this works if the dems run Hillary.

jayreynolds

11-10-2005, 06:54 PM

"In relation to ‘geoengineering’, the ‘Climate Change 2001’ report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change confirms that it ‘includes the possibility of engineering the earth’s climate system by large-scale manipulation of the global energy balance. It has been estimated, for example, that the mean effect on the earth surface energy balance from a doubling of CO2 could be offset by an increase of 1.5% to 2% in the earth’s albedo, i.e. by reflecting additional incoming solar radiation back into space…. Teller et al. (1997) found that ~107 t of dielectric aerosols of ~100 nm diameter would be sufficient to increase the albedo of the earth by ~1%. They showed that the required mass of a system based on alumina particles would be similar to that of a system based on sulphuric acid aerosol…(They) demonstrate that use of metallic or optically resonant scatterers can, in principle, greatly reduce the required total mass of scattering particles required.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=HAL20051020&articleId=1120

HA-HA-HA!
YOU PEOPLE GOOFED AGAIN, EVEN AFTER I DID MY BEST TO CORRECT YOU!
CAN'T YOU PEOPLE GET ANYTHING RIGHT???
HOW MANY MORE TIMES WILL WAYNE REPEAT HIS ERROR?
STAY TUNED FOLKS.......

halva

11-10-2005, 08:07 PM

jayreynolds

11-11-2005, 03:56 AM

Thanks for posting this. I didn't know that they had published it, or indeed that I had sent it to them.

Is there any error in the record of what the IPCC states?

My only task was/is to show that the IPCC proposes geoengineering measures of the kind advocated by Teller. How realistic and useful they are is a task for scientists to judge and in no way alters the fact that the IPCC makes these proposals.

Yes, let competent scientists judge you, Wayne.
That has always been your obstacle, and your downfall.

Think bacl and ask yourself, "Why have I failed so miserably?"

Understand that science doesn't work through belief, censorship, rumor, or anonymous whistleblowers, it works by confirmable, documented fact. These facts, even if stated as such , must then withstand scrutiny and even attack by new facts, logic, and new conclusions.

If you wish success close to mine, rather than your status quo of continued failure, you had better get a real scientist on your side.

The catch-22 is that when you do, your "chemtrails" hoax will evaporate faster than a wingtip vortex trail at FL 10 in July!

halva

11-11-2005, 08:10 AM

Is there any error in the record of what the IPCC states?

My only task was/is to show that the IPCC proposes geoengineering measures of the kind advocated by Teller. How realistic and useful they are is a task for scientists to judge and in no way alters the fact that the IPCC makes these proposals.

jayreynolds

11-11-2005, 10:39 AM

Insurrectionchemistry

11-11-2005, 06:12 PM

Jay "Elmer Gantry" Reynolds=GOP pundit=misinformationist

halva

11-15-2005, 05:17 AM

Surely this Canadian political party deserves to be getting more votes:

http://www.airapparent.ca/library/full_text/cap_pressrelease_aug22_05.htm

halva

11-15-2005, 12:38 PM

It is interesting how in the approaches to scientists now being made by climate change activists in the run up to the December 3rd international mobilisation, the names of an older generation of Greek ecologists keep cropping up - those of the 80s Greek Greens, would-be imitators of the German Green Party success story - associated in these parts with aggressive and decidedly unpopular NATO wars in the Balkans.

The present day Social Forum activists have to reassure the scientists that they are something different from these older Greens. (Of course not older than all of us.)

halva

11-19-2005, 01:51 AM

Man on the trail of skyscape mystery Aug 31 2005 (http://iccheshireonline.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15914499%26method=full%26siteid=50020% 26headline=man%2don%2dthe%2dtrail%2dof%2dskyscape% 2dmystery%2d-name_page.html)

By Anthony Harvison, Northwich Chronicle

ARE the skies being illicitly contaminated with a mysterious substance that may have serious effects on people's health?

One Cuddington man thinks so and is on a mission to find the truth.

Phil Morris, 50, is gravely concerned with what he perceives to be happening to the atmosphere in the North West and across the world.

The phenomena he refers to are known as 'chemtrails' - long-lasting, thick, white, expanding trails left by non-commercial planes, that eventually merge and blanket the skies.

'Ask yourself this,' he said, 'when did you last see clear blue skies over Lancashire and Cheshire with no clouds anywhere - without the pure natural skyscape being polluted by these trails and haze?'

Phil first noticed the phenomena, contrasted with contrails (condensation trails) which are normal water vapour trails left by commercial airliners that usually disappear within a minute, three-and-a-half years ago.

He started videotaping them and has amassed a significant collection of images to support his arguments.

He continued: 'The planes I have video-taped leave large crosses, grids, A and H shapes in the sky that spread out slowly over hours to create fake chemical clouds.

'They fall and thicken quickly leaving the telltale doughnut on a rope shape, they are pure white in daylight, and pale pink as the sun sets, while every other natural cloud had varying shades of white, grey and black plus colours as the sun sets.

'They also drift at around only 5%-10% the speed of normal clouds, often in the opposite direction to all the other clouds.

'When the sky is full of haze left by trails it can get extremely humid, even when there is no visible sun, and air feels stale.'

'I counted up to 50 planes last summer in one morning from sunrise to noon, and this happened on many occasions.'

Phil claims his health and his family's have been affected in some way by the chemtrails, tallying with reports from around the globe. Symptoms include head pains, severe ear-ache, stiff neck and shoulders, dizziness, sinus infections, lack of concentration and all-year-round flu symptoms.

In Phil's case, the symptoms got so bad that he went to hospital, fearing he had a brain tumour.

He said: 'I had a brain scan at the Countess of Chester Hospital, but it showed no problems and the doctors said I was fine. The problem now is my eight-year-old son also has the same 'brain ache' on the day or day after our skies are clogged with this haze, but on no other days.

'I met a woman from Delamere Park, less than one mile away, with exactly the same head pains.'

Official sources - including Defra (the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs), the Ministry of Defence, the Met Office and NASA - have played down Phil's concerns, stating the trails are nothing more than ice particles from water vapour at altitudes of 20,000-35,000ft.

'But they are patently not,' said Phil, 'as these trails often go right through and below much lower, wispy, normal clouds at 5,000-10,000ft only.'

So what could be the explanation?

There are hundreds of websites with photos from the US and Europe of chemtrails, with guesses, based on rainwater and soil samples, at the material being sprayed.

'Many websites in the US are convinced that US Air Force planes are spraying aluminium powder in a fibrous, expanding, spider-like mesh based on the thesis of H-Bomb inventor Ed Teller to trap Co2, deflect the sun's rays and reduce global warming, and barium for 3D topography radar imaging purposes for the military,' said Phil.

He admits there are lot of 'weird and wacky' conspiracy theorists out there but with the BBC and Guardian newspaper interested in following up his story, if hard evidence including actual trail samples can be obtained, it seems this is one trail that isn't going to go cold in a hurry.

siegmund

11-19-2005, 12:18 PM

'Many websites in the US are convinced that US Air Force planes are spraying aluminium powder in a fibrous, expanding, spider-like mesh based on the thesis of H-Bomb inventor Ed Teller to trap Co2, deflect the sun's rays and reduce global warming, and barium for 3D topography radar imaging purposes for the military,' said Phil. Very interesting.

1) Aluminium powder to trap CO2? That's a WORLD PREMIERE and the best white lie I ever heard.

Listen: Micronized coated aluminium is used in composite rocket propellant boosters (Ariane, Space Shuttle, cruise missiles) to launch a rocket thus producing real chemtrails containing a-Al2O3.

2) Barium is sprayed by US Air Force planes into the atmosphere? That's a matter to cry.

Listen: Barium is a very reactive and soft metal that's not available in a micronized powder form. It was experimentally (48 kgs) launched by a rocket into the ionosphere (100 km) and spread up there by means of an explosive.

Seems to be that Phil Morris like Toni Thayer and others emulgated some dubious information and recombinated part of it to create a new, more resistant form of mental virus.

Please do not post articles like that. You're going to debunk yourself.

siegmund

halva

11-21-2005, 12:05 AM

BC, have you got some words of encouragement for Phil Morris, who is meeting with a British Member of Parliament these days?

What should he say to the man?

jayreynolds

11-27-2005, 07:42 PM

Contrails are vapor, not a conspiracy
Arizona Republic
Nov. 25, 2005 12:00 AM

Today's question:

I just want to know the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail behind an airplane.

Oh, man, I know I'm going to regret this one. Maybe I'll get lucky and the chemtrail people will be too busy over the holiday weekend to read it. Let's hope so. If not, I'll be hearing from them for weeks. advertisement

Anyway, this is the difference between contrails and chemtrails: One is the condensation of water vapor in a jet's exhaust and one is hooey.

OK, again: Contrails form when the water vapor in a jet's exhaust hits cold air way up there and condenses into that white tail you see across the sky.

They generally dissipate quickly. However, sometimes, depending on the winds and humidity, they sort of fluff out and hang in the sky for a while.

I gather those are ones, the ones that linger, that bother the chemtrail people.

Chemtrail people believe those jets are part of a supersecret government plan to poison us by spreading chemicals in the air. Sometimes, instead of the government, it's some evil multinational corporation using us all as guinea pigs for some drug or whatever. It might be the Trilateral Commission. I don't know.

Whatever happened to the Trilateral Commission, anyway? Conspiracy lovers used to be really worried about that, but you hardly hear anything about it anymore.

I'm not quite clear on just why it is the government or the evil multinational corporation or whatever group wants to poison us or test drugs on us or whatever. Most of the chemtrail advocates are kind of fuzzy about that. Maybe it has something to do with mind control.

Here's another angle: One chemtrail advocate told me once that when you see two contrails crossed at a right angle, that's the bull's-eye for a camera in a supersecret spy satellite that the government uses to gather information on us.

Anyway, if you go on to the Internet and look around long enough you eventually will find reports that hospitals in some parts of the country are jammed with people who have been poisoned by chemtrails. These reports are generally vague about where these jammed hospitals are. And it does seem odd that you never read about these jammed hospitals in the paper or see it on the news. Of course, the reason for that is that the media hush it all up because they're in on it, too.

Reach Thompson at clay.thompson@arizonarepublic.com or (602) 444-8612.

halva

11-27-2005, 08:52 PM

"Factual proof for the existence of chemtrails is not to be had from any sector of the electronic reality market, but an array of indications demands closer scrutiny. The chemtrail community suffers the disadvantage of being too close to conspiracy theorists and students of the occult. The reasons for the spraying activity, to judge from the various viewpoints in circulation, range from endeavours to save the world to attempts at annihilation of a large part of the world’s population through the propagation of disease. Welcome to the ‘New World Order…’

Are the chemtrails now being observed and photographed by more and more people the product of a global conspiracy, a natural phenomenon or the product of human intervention? Are the Americans again the baddies who are poisoning the world – or are they trying to save the planet from climate collapse? …………………

There is indeed on the Internet a widely disseminated conspiracy theory that attributes chemtrails to the legendary Illuminati…..

The order of Illuminati ….. originally arose out of the secret society of Perfectibilists founded in 1776 – and in the view of Ken Adachi, editor of the website ‘Educate Yourself’, is the power behind the chemtrail spraying activity. “Most Americans do not recognize that the top echelon of the US government is no longer government of, by and for the people (also see ‘New World Order’). The United States government, exactly like the world’s other major governments, is subject to the total domination and control of the Illuminati (architects of the so-called ‘New World Order’). The Illuminati’s plan to reduce the world’s population by four billion was laid out in the ‘Global 2000 report’ compiled by the Carter administration in the late 70s…..

‘Illuminati’ is one of the oldest of conceptions, denoting the thirteen families (and their collateral lines) that are allegedly descended in a direct blood-line from Jesus, constituting the greater part of this power elite. Numerous Illuminati are also members at the highest level of various secret societies and occult brotherhoods, many of which date back to the Middle Ages. Old cabals with a new significance, because the key supports of the ‘NWO pyramid’, again according to Adachi, are international banks and pharmaceutical cartels along with other multinational corporations………

The goals of today’s Illuminati appear, however, to have little in common with those of the order of Illuminati founded just 300 years ago in Ingolstadt by Adam Weishaupt. At that time the idea was to institute the Enlightenment ideals of Freedom and Equality through establishment of ethical governance. From the outset there were a large number of Freemasons among the membership. In 1784 the Order of Illuminati was banned by the Elector Karl Theodor. Later the death penalty was proclaimed for the secret recruitment of new members, “Prominent among the so far verified 1,500 members were Johann Gottfried Herder, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Adolph Freiherr Knigge” says the (German-language) Wikipedia. “All in all in its recruitment policies the Illuminati were demonstrably pursuing a goal of addressing persons in leading positions. To the present day this strategy has provided circumstantial evidence for the adherents of conspiracy theories: the Order of Illuminati were attempting through active influencing of decision makers in the political and economic system to disseminate Enlightenment conceptions in the most efficacious manner.”

In 1896 a ‘new edition’ of the Illuminati came onto the scene when the historian Leopold Engel founded the ‘World Society of Illuminati’. The papers of this society, which in 1929 was deleted from the Berlin Register of Societies, according to Wikipedia are to be found in the German Special Archive in Moscow. “This is only one of the numerous official and alleged refoundations, as not infrequently tends to occur with famous secret societies that have dissolved.” The originator of most Illuminati theories can be identified as Abbe Barruel, who saw the Illuminati and Freemasons as architects of the French Revolution. “Through him Jewish World Conspiracy theories also became popular, and he was only too willing to fuse them together, so creating the basic outline for most extreme-right conspiracy theories.”

A lot of stories, both good and less good, can be found on the Internet. It is a melting pot of vanity, and at the same time the greatest data bank to which the human race has ever had access. Will investigation of the chemtrails phenomenon make better progress if we concentrate on the alleged mass extermination programmes of the Illuminati?............

What is important is this: if you observe something unusual somewhere, look at it a second time – and ask questions. If you do not receive an answer, ask again, louder. Never lose your curiosity.

Do not fall for every conspiracy theory you are offered. Keep your feet on the ground and rely on common sense."

(Christian Haderer-Peter Hiess)

Insurrectionchemistry

12-04-2005, 06:41 PM

eran124

12-08-2005, 08:01 AM

can somebody help me i"m heving difficulties geting
into this websites...

http://www.pleascum.com
http://www.cumonsms.com

Insurrectionchemistry

12-08-2005, 08:53 AM

I am sure John-boy Reynolds can help you all you want.

He is quite the pimp for himself and others, and basically nutz.

jayreynolds

12-08-2005, 09:22 AM

I am sure John-boy Reynolds can help you all you want.

He is quite the pimp for himself and others, and basically nutz.
So, you're calling me a pimp, eh, Jimbo?

Ok, that absolves me from holding back any language in dealing with you.

whitemajikman

12-08-2005, 09:25 AM

So, you're calling me a pimp, eh, Jimbo?

Ok, that absolves me from holding back any language in dealing with you.

YOUR BEHAVIOUR WILL NEVER BE ABSOLVED ........

NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOUR INSANE MIND TELLS YOU DIFFERENT.

MR. STALKER

WMM

jayreynolds

12-08-2005, 09:45 AM

YOUR BEHAVIOUR WILL NEVER BE ABSOLVED ........

NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOUR INSANE MIND TELLS YOU DIFFERENT.

MR. STALKER

WMM
Pimp.

whitemajikman

12-08-2005, 10:06 AM

Pimp.

AGAIN YOU WILL NEVER BE ABSOLVED FOR YOUR SADISTIC,OBSSESSIVE ATTACKS ON INNOCENT PEOPLE.

AND BY YOUR RESPONSE ABOVE......

EVEN YOU KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE.......

WMM

eran124

12-08-2005, 11:20 AM

can somebody help me i"m heving difficulties geting
into this websites...

http://www.pleascum.com
http://www.cumonsms.com

jayreynolds

12-08-2005, 11:25 AM

whitemajikman

12-08-2005, 12:16 PM

You know, whitey, I take it back. You haven't the mental ability to be a pimp.
The real pimp is the "chemtrails" hoax itself. Interesting that a large thing, seemingly unorganized can be considered a "Pimp", but it's true.

And you, Wayne, Jimbo, and all other "chemtrail" promoters are the whores, selling their very souls, and for what?

The hoax doesn't care about you- just like a pimp.
The hoax doesn't give you anything of value- just like a pimp.
The hoax just sucks you dry and spits you out- just likea pimp.

How does it feel to be a whore for a hoax?

WHAT HOAX JAY?

IS THIS A HOAX?

Why wouldn't those in oversight consider the utilization of already-existing emissions from any of a number of source points if they're (already) the right kind of emissions (i.e. already quantified as net-cooling) for mitigation of greenhouse gas net warming?

WMM

whitemajikman

12-08-2005, 12:21 PM

IS THIS A HOAX JAY?

How America plotted to stop Kyoto deal
By Andrew Buncombe in Montreal
Published: 08 December 2005
http://news.independent.co.uk/envir...ticle331768.ece

A detailed and disturbing strategy document has revealed an extraordinary American plan to destroy Europe's support for the Kyoto treaty on climate change.

The ambitious, behind-the-scenes plan was passed to The Independent this week, just as 189 countries are painfully trying to agree the second stage of Kyoto at the UN climate conference in Montreal. It was pitched to companies such as Ford Europe, Lufthansa and the German utility giant RWE.

Put together by a lobbyist who is a senior official at a group partly funded by ExxonMobil, the world's biggest oil company and a fierce opponent of anti-global warming measures, the plan seeks to draw together major international companies, academics, think-tanks, commentators, journalists and lobbyists from across Europe into a powerful grouping to destroy further EU support for the treaty.

It details just how the so-called "European Sound Climate Policy Coalition" would work. Based in Brussels, the plan would have anti-Kyoto position papers, expert spokesmen, detailed advice and networking instantly available to any politician or company who wanted to question the wisdom of proceeding with Kyoto and its demanding cuts in carbon dioxide emissions.

It has been drawn up by Chris Horner, a senior official with the Washington-based Competitive Enterprise Institute and a veteran campaigner against Kyoto and against the evidence of climate change. One of his colleagues * who describes himself as an adviser to President George Bush * was the subject of a censure motion by the Commons last year after he attacked the Government's chief scientist.

Mr Horner, whose CEI group has received almost $1.5m (£865,000) from ExxonMobil, is convinced that Europe could be successfully influenced by such a policy coalition just as the US government has been.

He thinks Europe's weakening economies are likely to be increasingly ill at ease with the costs of meeting Kyoto. And in particular, he has spotted something he thinks most of Europe has not yet woken up to. Most of the original 15 EU Kyoto signatories * Britain is an exception * are on course to miss their 2010 CO2 reduction targets. But under the terms of the treaty, they will face large fines for doing so, in terms of much bigger reduction targets in any second phase.

These will prove unacceptably costly to their economies, Mr Horner believes, even if they try to buy their way out by buying up "spare" emissions for cash from countries such as Russia. Mr Horner believes the moment for his coalition is at hand and has been seeking support for it from multinational companies. In his pitch to one major company, he wrote: " In the US an informal coalition has helped successfully to avert adoption of a Kyoto-style programme by maintaining a rational voice for civil society and ensuring a legitimate debate over climate economics, science and politics. This model should be emulated... to guide similar efforts in Europe."

Elsewhere he claimed: "A coalition addressing the economic and social impacts of the EU climate agenda must be broad-based (cross industry) and rooted in the member states. Other companies (including Lufthansa, Exxon, Ford) have already indicated their interest!"..... (continued)

WMM

whitemajikman

12-08-2005, 12:22 PM

OR HOW ABOUT THIS JAY......?

December 7, 2005

Bush treats planet as his alone

THE INDEPENDENT
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opini..._warming07.html

It is as if we were living on two planets. Here, in the real world, the evidence that global warming is already doing immense damage to the Earth is mounting with terrifying speed. In the past two weeks alone, we have learned that the Greenland ice cap appears to be on the point of irreversible meltdown, that the Kalahari Desert is to double in size, that sea and bird life has collapsed dramatically off the U.S. Pacific coast and that the mighty Gulf Stream (which keeps Britain habitable) has weakened abruptly. This year is expected to be the hottest ever, and hurricanes are breaking all records. It is impossible to dispute the conclusion last week of the British environment secretary, Margaret Beckett, that this is "the greatest threat facing mankind."

But over on the other planet -- in Montreal, where 189 nations are meeting to work out how to combat the threat -- the issue is being tackled with all the urgency and productiveness of a more than usually constipated parish council discussing how to celebrate the queen's putative centenary.

No one expects an outcome that remotely begins to address the gravity of the crisis; the best that can be hoped for is an agreement on more talks next year, and even that will be hard to achieve. There is no chance of any decision on concrete action. Here is Beckett again, having apparently traveled from one planet to the other: Anyone suggesting that the conference should agree to binding pollution reduction targets when the ones agreed under the Kyoto protocol run out in 2012 is, she said, "living in cloud-cuckoo-land."

Much of this is, of course, down to the oil-soaked obduracy of President Bush and his bunch of corporately compromised cronies. By refusing even to talk about targets, they have ensured that the negotiations take place in an atmosphere of unreality. But it is not just him: British Prime Minister Tony Blair, for example, seems to have a different face for each planet. In one world -- as when trying to persuade Britain to embrace nuclear power last week -- he voices strong support for a binding treaty to succeed Kyoto; in the other -- as when with senior members of the Bush administration -- he casts doubt on it. Internationally, he deserves enormous credit for having put the issue high on the agenda through making it a priority at the Gleneagles summit; domestically, he has earned brickbats for having presided over an increase in Britain's carbon dioxide emissions.

Meanwhile, John Prescott -- who brokered the Kyoto treaty -- is unveiling a new greenhouse building code that actually lowers standards for energy consumption.

The marchers who demonstrated around the world are entitled to ask who is really in cloud-cuckoo-land and to demand that our leaders return to the real world. Britain, holding the presidency of the European Union, should be taking a lead in pressing for action in Montreal, rather than merely holding the ring.

Blair should confront Bush: The only time the president has shifted his position is when Britain effectively threatened to isolate him at Gleneagles; cozying up to him has been disastrous. The rest of the rich world should commit itself in principle at Montreal to setting new, stricter targets to follow Kyoto. If this means leaving him on his own planet, so be it. To join him will doom the Earth to destruction.

WMM

whitemajikman

12-08-2005, 12:26 PM

HOW ABOUT THIS JAY.......?

IS OUR GRACIOUS HOST TRYING TO HOAX US......?

Published on Wednesday, February 25, 2004 by Arianna Huffington
The Pentagon Sounds The Alarm On Global Warming; Why Isn't President Bush Listening?
by Arianna Huffington

If he's smart enough to use it, the Democratic nominee may have just been handed the perfect cudgel with which to pummel President Bush - and cripple Karl Rove's attempts to position his man as America's go-to guy on national security.

The weapon in question is a new report on the grave and gathering threat posed by global climate change - and the potentially cataclysmic consequences of the Bush administration's obstinately ignorant approach to global warming.

And the thing that makes the report so frightening - and the prospective bludgeon so crushing - is that it wasn't authored by some crunchy granola think tank or a band of tree-hugging EarthFirsters, but by the U.S. Department of Defense.

That's right, the Pentagon - Rummy's playpen. In fact, the report, which was slipped to the press earlier this month after being kept under wraps by the White House for four months, was commissioned by Andrew Marshall, a legendary DOD figure, nicknamed "Yoda" for his sagacity. As head of the Pentagon's secretive Office of Net Assessment, Marshall has offered national security assessments to every president since Richard Nixon.

And this latest assessment pegs climate change as a far greater danger than even the scourge of international terrorism.

Dryly entitled "An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United States National Security," the report reads like the plot summary of the upcoming Dennis Quaid doomsday flick, "The Day After Tomorrow," in which global warming pushes the planet to the edge of anarchy and annihilation.

But this scenario is not science fiction. According to the Pentagon study, the question is not if abrupt climate change will happen, but when. It could be, according to the report's authors, as soon as the next three years, with the most devastating fallout potentially occurring between 2010 and 2020.

At that point, we could find ourselves in the midst of a new ice age in which mega-droughts devastate the world's food supply, drinkable water becomes a luxury worth going nuclear over, 400 million people are forced to migrate from uninhabitable areas, and riots and wars for survival become commonplace.

I believe that would qualify as a Red Alert in Tom Ridge's color-coded book.

But the Bush White House remains unwilling to address - or even acknowledge - this looming peril. Instead, the oiligarchs in the administration continue to fiddle while the atmosphere starts to burn, routinely ignoring scientific evidence and international consensus, and casting a questioning eye on the very idea, let alone the fact, of global warming. It's a stance that has warmed the hearts - globally, no doubt - of the Bush Pioneers and Rangers in the oil and energy industry, making them feel very generous indeed.

As last week's release of a scathing letter signed by 60 prominent scientists - including 20 Nobel laureates and former science advisers to both Republican and Democratic administrations - makes clear, the Bush administration has made an art out of ignoring science. Particularly when it comes to the issue of global warming.

Who can forget the president's famous CO2 flip-flop, or the way the White House tried to force so many changes to a section of an EPA report dealing with climate change that Christie Todd Whitman finally threw up her hands and decided to eliminate the section on global warming altogether?

But blinding the voters with pseudo-science may no longer be an option now that the Pentagon report threatens to put the issue front and center - and reframe it as a key component of our national security debate.

This is particularly good news for John Kerry, should he prevail, given his long history of leading the charge in the Senate to cut down on greenhouse gases by raising fuel efficiency standards for cars and trucks. The president, of course, has done just the opposite, giving Kyoto the kiss-off, and pushing through unconscionable loopholes that reward gas-guzzling monster SUVs and allow carmakers to effectively reduce fuel economy for millions of the vehicles they sell.

One of the defining traits of leadership is the ability to see not just the crisis right in front of you, but the one lurking around the next corner. Bush's steadfast refusal to act upon the potential desolation that awaits us if we do nothing to confront global warming makes him a major national security liability.

Everyone in the Bush administration acted shocked and surprised when 9/11 happened - even though there had been red flags aplenty warning of al-Qaida's evil intentions. Well, let there be no surprise this time. We have all been warned.

While the Pentagon is sounding the alarm on an environmental Armageddon, the president is covering his eyes, crossing his fingers, and whistling about the "national importance" of a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

The Democratic nominee needs to remind the White House - and the American people: It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature.

© 2004 Arianna Huffington

WMM

jayreynolds

12-08-2005, 06:57 PM

whitemajikman

12-08-2005, 07:37 PM

The bottom line on this Kyoto treaty is that the representatives of The People decided to opt out.
http://www.nationalcenter.org/KyotoSenate.html
It was dead in 1997, before Bush even ran for office.
end of story.
Don't your people keep up with the news?
Or is this just a Bush-bash tactic?
Doesn't work when analyzed with the facts, son.

I AM NOT YOUR SON.......

AND GLOBAL WARMING EXIST'S.........AS DOES CLIMATE CHANGE.......

ARE YOU DENYING THEIR EXISTENCE........?

AND AS FAR AS KYOTO GOES...........OH WELL.......BUT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE KYOTO2 WHICH WILL RECTIFY THE MISTAKES OF KYOTO1...........

AND EVEN WHEN THAT HAPPENS YOUR GOVERNMENT WILL STILL REJECT IT ...........

REMEMBER THAT YOUR PRESIDENT IS AN OIL MAN FIRST AND A POLITICIAN SECOND......

TRY ANALYZING THAT WITH FACTS.......JAY.

WMM

jayreynolds

12-09-2005, 03:43 AM

AND AS FAR AS KYOTO GOES...........OH WELL.......BUT THERE WILL ALWAYS BE KYOTO2 WHICH WILL RECTIFY THE MISTAKES OF KYOTO1...........
AND EVEN WHEN THAT HAPPENS YOUR GOVERNMENT WILL STILL REJECT IT ...........
WMM
Is that sortof like?

"2005 is the year THE TRUTH ABOUT CHEMTRAILS(CONTRAILS) will be FOUND"

Insurrectionchemistry

12-09-2005, 06:04 AM

The truth on chemtrails is all here on Arainna's little zone (even the health and religion connotations well covered), which is abused by hate oriented persons like Reynolds.

The insane person that goes by Jay Reynolds now admits his web page was taken down by his ISP based on abuse reports from a female victim.

Reynolds insists on constant chaos as he draws attention to himself, as many biopolar type persons seek to do.

AKA Jay Reynolds, also admits to breaking the state's laws by calling himself an Engineer, but is not an Engineer.

Jay Reynolds also admits to stalking persons, like F_S, by seeking personal information about her like where she lives, what kind of power she uses, digging up her personal email address, spamming her Email, etc. He has tried the same with me.

And the delusional Jay Reynolds fantasizes about poisoning people with "poison pills," with his delusional tyrades and stalking behaviors.

jayreynolds

12-09-2005, 06:12 AM

The insane person that goes by Jay Reynolds now admits his web page was taken down by his ISP based on abuse reports from a female victim.
I admit that one website was taken down due to threats of litigation, Jimbo.
The webpage stands, here:
http://www.goodsky.homestead.com/files/nuts.html
AKA Jay Reynolds, also admits to breaking the state's laws by calling himself an Engineer, but is not an Engineer.
Nope, I never claimed to be a Licensed Engineer, Jimbo. No laws broken, no admission. I note you couldn't cite a quote where I made that claim. Why not?
Jay Reynolds also admits to stalking persons, like F_S, by seeking personal information about her like where she lives, what kind of power she uses, digging up her personal email address, spamming her Email, etc. He has tried the same with me.
Nope, never made any sort of admission like that. She published the name of the town in which she lives. She published her email address. I never spammed her email or made any sort of threat against her, and she has had many requests to publish any proof of that, but cannot do it because none were made. You also publish your email address. You have my permission to go ahead and publish any email you've gotten from me.
And the delusional Jay Reynolds fantasizes about poisoning people with "poison pills," with his delusional tyrades and stalking behaviors.
Nope. The only "poison pills" I have written about are metaphorical ones in your own claims, Jimbo. They consist of discrepancies, contradictions and other flaws which remain to be brought out whenever I want, and amount to fatal flaws in your claims. You know about some of them, and that's why you know the "devil is in the details" and refuse to engage in open debate about them.

Jimbo, the fact is that you are down to copy/paste spam postings of no value to you or any of your people. You aren't even allowed to post any of it anymore at a single one of the "chemtrail" message boards, and even Wayne Hall doesn't believe in you anymore. I've debunked you down to nothing but empty claims of grandeur, and that's a fact.

Insurrectionchemistry

12-09-2005, 06:50 AM

Reynolds has not taken the medicine needed to control his illness. Reynolds is out of control, has been out of control for some time, as many persons are seeing.

The insane person that goes by Jay Reynolds now admits his web page was taken down by his ISP based on abuse reports from a female victim. That his motive and vendetta against this person, is the reason he seeks her personal information to continue that abuse and stalking behavior to control her. Jay Reynolds seeks control, feeds on control, wants to control F_S, and many others using his stalking methods.

Reynolds insists on constant chaos as he draws attention to himself, as many biopolar type persons seek to do. No amount of facts on any topic can satisfy a person that wants to pull attention to themselves, and Reynolds feeds off that like a drug.

AKA Jay Reynolds, also admits to breaking the state's laws by calling himself an Engineer, but is not an Engineer. Jay Reynolds shows a constant divorce between himself and reality, the constant denials of the crazy persons, who can do no wrong in their own self-assessments. In their own irrational need to become more important than they are, their delusions of grandness grows. Reynolds actions shows a person with an illness, not a need to learn science or discuss the information without personal attacks on people. He seeks out personal information to control people, not the science, and this is a sign of extreme problems.

Jay Reynolds also admits to stalking persons, like F_S, by seeking personal information about her like where she lives, what kind of power she uses, digging up her personal email address, spamming her Email, etc. He has tried the same with me, so its not isolated occurance. Jay Reynolds seeks to control people, and seeks to cause all manner of conflict to gain that control. Reynolds illness feeds on making himself the center of attention, which gives him this serge of control feeling.

And the delusional Jay Reynolds fantasizes about poisoning people with "poison pills," with his delusional tyrades and stalking behaviors. That also gives the crazed mind the feeling of control over others, but with visions of killing them and death involved. Jay Reynolds also visions putting a knife in chemmies veins and draining their blood like some slaughered pig, in some of his other sick fantasies aimed toward chemmies.

Jay Reynolds is extremely sick and becoming a more delusional person. He is very close to the delisions of some criminals, and definitly divorced from reality.

I predict, if given a chance, he would do things to kill people. Likely he even did those sorts of things with Bill Cooper, aggrivating the situations rather than diffusing them. Certainly, Reynolds does not mind ignoring the enzyme factors linked to AIDS, which are fluoride oriented, and ignoring that kills millions.

Reynolds thrives on hate of others in many ways, even ignoring the teachings of Jesus. Which all relates to these problems with the environment and human health. Reynolds abhores Jesus, and even the science associated. Because respect of those values takes away his control and attention.

jayreynolds

12-09-2005, 07:19 AM

I predict, if given a chance, he would do things to kill people. Likely he even did those sorts of things with Bill Cooper, aggrivating the situations rather than diffusing them.
Jimbo, a few minutes ago you were posting that I murdered my friend Bill Cooper. I see you've backed off on that stuff. Looks like I am fully in control of what you say, eh?

So "owned".

Insurrectionchemistry

12-09-2005, 09:17 AM

I think it as WMM that said you did it directly.

I was I that said you were doing the same things to Cooper as you attempt to do to folks here.

You are the person that would stab persons in the back in life as in death.

A person that would seek to dig up any detail to attack people. A person who would seek to inflame problems to conceil the truth.

A person that makes what appear to be death wishes toward persons using words like poison pills, knives slitting veins, letting blood and hearing chemmies squeel like pigs dying.

A person that would have wished death upon Cooper and opposed him.

A person that would not even care if Cooper lived or died.

Jay Reynolds is certainly a person that never speaks of anything that Bill Cooper wrote, because such totally defeats corruped Jay Reynolds own purposes and claims.

Your bipolar self wants the light on you, so lets make all of Arianna's Science Forums Focus be totally on Jay Reynolds and how virtually nothing he claims makes sense to those that care to look for the details.

Tell us of just how embarrasing the things Cooper wrote are to Jay Reynolds.

whitemajikman

12-09-2005, 11:27 AM

jayreynolds

12-12-2005, 09:17 AM

There are those who make claims that the aerosol operations have an intended
benevolent objective to mitigate the effects of global warming. It is also
apparently accepted within that same claim that it is best that such an
intention not be internationally discussed in public, and that you are best
off not knowing about it [Satellite Photograph. Southeast United States].
Unfortunately, the data does not support the contentions of benevolence
that have been made and in fact the majority of the data can be
considered to have detrimental and potentially disastrous consequences to
the life and ecology of this planet, including humans [NASA claims
‘Contrail Clutter’]. Furthermore the vast majority of elements and
substances under examination will actually increase the heat levels of the
lower atmosphere rather than decrease it when they are placed into it.
This is exactly what the observations themselves support. And that is,
that drought conditions are exacerbated and aggravated by the
introduction of the aerosols and not mitigated, as many might choose to
believe.

HiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!! Hiiiiiissssss!!!!!!
WHO IS THAT????? IS IT SNAKEY WAYNEY???????
BETTER WATCH OUT, JIMMY PIGGY IS NEAR!!!!!

Wayne Hall's functional illiteracy is legendary, and he had his chance as a moderator for Arianna's. It appears Wayne Hall was universally rejected for that place, and nothing has changed since. Wayne Hall's games can't deal with science, which is the root of the problem. Until Wayne Hall can learn to do the science, nothing will work out for him. Which likely means never.
OH, NO, IT'S THE BIG EEEEEEVILLLL SWINE JIMMY PIGGY COME TO GOTCHA WAYNE!!!!!!!
HEAR HIM SQUEEEEEAAAAALLLLL!!!!!!!!!
YOU MADE A BIG MISTAKE WHEN YOU SAID PIGGY'S "METHODS" WERE A DETRIMENT TO THE ENVIRONMENT!!!!

Well, looks like the CTC terrorist connection is back. These are the people that want to raise the risks of aircraft being shot down because they claim they cause drought.
Interesting News: This threads theme came from Chemtrails Centrail trying to push legalization of marijuna on people, now this is being shown to cause definative harm.

The same Forum appears to have mental problems by telling that chemtrails cause droughts, when the Global Warming influence is the dominate term, and chemtrails only attempt to lessen that harm.

OH, NO, SNAKEY WAYNEY, YOU ARE IN FOR IT NOW!!!!
EEEVILLLL JIMMY PIGGY SAYS YOU HAVE MENTAL PROBLEMS!!!!
HE SAYS "CHEMTRAILS" LESSEN GLOBAL WARMING"!!!!!!
SOLDIER RATTY, ARE YOU NEAR???
SQUEEEEEAAAAKKKKK!!! SQUEEEEAAAAAKKKKK!!!!!
AH, THERE YOU ARE!!!!!
WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT ALL THIS???????

Clouds and the Energy Cycle
High, (optically) thin cirrus clouds have a warming effect because they transmit most of the incoming solar radiation while, simultaneously, they absorb some of the Earth's infrared radiation and radiate it back to the surface.
OH, NO, YOU ARE AGAINST JIMMY PIGGY, TOO???
BETTER RUN, BOTH OF YOU, EEEEEVIL JIMMY PIGGY IS COMING!!!!!

It is poliitcally correct not to let delusional persons mislead folks.
Arianna, I am sure, would believe in tossing out the disruptive idiots..
SQUEEEEEAAAAAALLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!

jayreynolds

12-12-2005, 06:34 PM

]綠色和平成員須黎軍登上了遠洋船"極地曙光號"以直接的行動要求巴西政府不要批准種植基因改造大豆。行動於4月20日在巴西展開。

我們為什麼要求巴西不要種植基因改造大豆？消費者要吃不受基因改造污染的食物，必需有大豆主產國供應非基因改造大豆。現在，其他的大豆主產國家（美國和阿根廷）已經大量種植基因改造大豆，巴西是全世界第二大的大豆生產國家，如果也批准種植基因改造大豆，我們要吃上一口不受基因改造污染的食物，將會變得更為困難！

另外一個重要原因是中國每年從巴西進口大量大豆。眾所周知，中國是大豆的故鄉，擁有全世界最豐富的大豆遺傳資源，綠色和平和中國的專家擔心大量進口基因改造大豆有可能污染中國的大豆及大豆遺傳資源。如果巴西批准種植基因改造大豆，將大大增加中國大豆受污染的風險！

巴西過去一直禁止種植基因改造大豆，但去年卻批准臨時種植。可以說，巴西正處於是否正式批准基因改造大豆的十字路口。

在這關鍵時候，綠色和平的成員須黎軍登上了"極地曙光號"，以直接的行動要求巴西政府不要批准種植基因改造大豆。我們呼籲更多人關注他的行動，支援"極地曙光號"防止基因改造作物擴散的行動，因為我們需要從源頭上減少中國大豆受到污染的威脅，因為這個世界需要更多非基因改造的淨土！

綠色和平在行動：中國男孩海上日記

4月8日
…… 看到了是她，就是她，跟照片裡的一樣，但更大、更漂亮。我興奮地登上船去，把行李脫放在甲板上，與來歡迎我們的船員男的握手、女的親吻，簡短的自我介紹然後抱著相機上竄下跳，把甲板上的一切都看了個夠，"這是我們的船，我們綠色和平自己的船！"我幾乎要哭了。

4月20日
… … 這就是我第一次親身進行的綠色和平非暴力直接行動，簡單、快捷而又友好，但卻是經過精心策劃、艱苦訓練和密切配合才完成的。……我們要表達的資訊：基因改造生物需要標識，公眾有權作出知情選擇，公眾有權對基因改造說不，也必須保護我們的食物和生態系統不受基因污染。

須黎軍介紹
1979年出生於山水甲天下的桂林，並在這裡長大；98年保送廈門大學生命科學學院學習生物學；99年暑期參加第四屆全國大學生綠色營；2000年9月與志同道合的幾位同學共同創辦廈門大學綠野協會（一個熱愛自然、保護環境的大學生社團）；畢業後於2002年進入珍古道爾研究會下的根與芽環境教育專案北京辦公室工作，根與芽是一個全球性的青少年環境與人道主義教育專案；2003年8月加入綠色和平，從事基因改造生物和可持續農業專案方面的工作。

喜歡自然以及中國的傳統知識和文化，愛好很廣泛，包括觀鳥、認植物、拉二胡、學習中醫等等。在知道將參與綠色和平"極地曙光號"的直接行動時，須須激動地說："這是我一直的夢想呀！"

"極地曙光號"介紹
"極地曙光號"以前是一艘捕獵海豹船，綠色和平曾經阻攔這艘船給法國運送在南極建設飛機號道的設備，因為修建這條跑道會破壞企鵝的棲息地。綠色和平於1995年購買這艘船，將它改裝為破冰船，並名為"極地曙光號"。

"極地曙光號"第一次行動就是著名的事件，它成功地阻止了殼牌石油公司將報廢的鑽井平臺"沈入北海。在年，"極地曙光號"成為人類歷史上首度成功環繞南極航行的船，但是這次航程之所以成功，是因為原來連接與南極大陸的米厚的大冰塊因氣候變化而崩塌。自此，這艘破冰船多次協助綠色和平見證氣候變化對人類和動物生存家園的破壞。

"極地曙光號"的最新任務是在巴西展開反對基因改造大豆的行動。

相關連結

須黎軍船上日記
保護大豆的故鄉－中國
保護大豆故鄉共建生物安全長城 (簡體)
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For the record.

jayreynolds

12-12-2005, 06:37 PM

สถานการณ์ล่าสุด

กรีนพีซร่วมมือเครือข่ายสากลฯ จัดกิจกรรมต้านโรงงานเผาขยะ
เร่งรัฐบาลหาทางออกที่ยั่งยืนในการกำจัดและลดปริมาณข ยะ
กรุงเทพฯ 16 กรกฏาคม 2546 -- กรีนพีซจัดงานแถลงข่าวแจ้งข้อมูลล่าสุดเรื่องผลกระทบ จากโรงงานเผาขยะ และการให้สัตยาบันแก่อนุสัญญาสต็อกโฮล์มของรัฐบ าลไทย เพื่อร่วมสนับสนุนกลุ่มองค์กรภาคประชาชนมากกว่า 200 กลุ่มจาก 62 ประเทศ ที่รวมตัวกันจัดกิจกรรมเร่งรัดรัฐบาลของแต่ละปร ะเทศ ในการหาทางออกที่ยั่งยืนของการกำจัดขยะ แทนโรงงานเผาขยะที่เป็นแหล่งกำเนิดแหล่งใหญ่ที่สุดขอ งมลพิษ ที่ให้ข้อมูลบิดเบือนแก่ประชาชน ว่าผลิตความร้อนและกระแสไฟฟ้า
แอน เลียวนาร์ด ผู้ประสานงาน เครือข่ายสากลเพื่อยุติเทคโนโลยีเผาขยะและส่งเสริมทา งเลือกในการจัดการของเสีย ประกอบด้วยสมาชิกจากกลุ่มองค์กรภาคเอกชนมากกว่า 375 กลุ่มจาก 77 ประเทศ ที่รวมตัวกันเพื่อระงับมลพิษและการสูญเปล่าจากการเผา ขยะ กล่าวว่า "เนื่องจากกระแสการต่อต้านโรงงานเผาขยะที่รุนแรงมากขึ ้น ทำให้กลุ่มผู้ได้รับผลประโยชน์จากโรงงานเผาขยะพยายาม หาทางออกด้วยวิธีต่างๆ เช่นการปรับรูปแบบและวิธีการของโรงงานเผาขยะ สร้างภาพว่ามีการใช้เทคโนโลยีใหม่มาทดแทนวิธีเดิมที่ ถูกปฎิเสธ เช่นการใช้พลังงานทดแทนอื่นๆ การใช้พลังงานเพื่อสิ่งแวดล้อม พลังความร้อนหรือก๊าซ"
จากการดำเนินงานอย่างต่อเนื่องทั่วโลกเพื่อต่อต้านโร งงานเผาขยะ ที่มีผลกระทบต่อสุขภาพประชากร สภาพแวดล้อม เศรษฐกิจ และสังคม ส่งผลให้การรณรงค์ปฎิบัติการยุติโรงงานเผาขยะทั่วโลก ครั้งที่ 2 ได้รับความสนใจและได้รับความร่วมมือจากองค์กรต่ างๆ ทั่วโลกมากยิ่งขึ้น โดยการดำเนินงานเหล่านี้ นำทีมโดยเครือข่ายฯ ที่ดำเนินการในวันต่อต้านโรงงานเผาขยะปีละครั้ง เพื่อชี้แจงผลกระทบของการเผาขยะ และมลพิษที่เกิดจากการจัดการขยะ ควบคู่ไปกับการส่งเสริมการจัดการที่ปลอดภัยและยั่งยื นในการกำจัดและลดปริมาณขยะ
ปัจจุบัน เครือข่ายฯ ได้นำเสนอรายงานเรื่อง ที่ได้อธิบายว่า โรงงานเผาขยะเป็นวิธีการที่ล้าสมัยและไม่ยั่งยื น ถือเป็นฆาตกรในคราบเทคโนโลยี โดยมีเหตุผลรับรอง 3 ประการ ประการแรกในแง่ของเทคโนโลยีในการจัดการขยะ วิธีนี้นอกจากจะปราศจากความน่าเชื่อถือแล้ว ยังก่อให้เกิดของเสียต่อเนื่องขึ้น ซึ่งมีอันตรายมากกว่าของเสียดั้งเดิม ประการที่สองในแง่ของพลังงานที่ได้จากการเผาขยะ พลังงานที่ได้เป็นพลังงานไร้ประสิทธิภาพและเกิดขึ้นจ ากของเสีย ประการที่สามในแง่การพัฒนาเศรษฐกิจแล้ว ถือเป็นหายนะก็ว่าได้ เพราะโรงงานเผาขยะทำให้ชุมชนต้องเสียงบประมาณจำนวนมา ก แต่ผลที่ได้รับคือความหวาดวิตกของคนในชุมชนและงานที่ อันตราย
กรีนพีซร่วมมือเครือข่ายสากลฯ จัดกิจกรรมต้านโรงงานเผาขยะ / 2
นายธารา บัวคำศรี ผู้ประสานงานรณรงค์ด้านสารพิษ กรีนพีซ กล่าวเพิ่มเติมว่า "ทุกวันนี้ พลังมวลชนได้แสดงให้เห็นชัดเจนว่า พวกเขาต่อต้านและปฎิเสธโรงงานเผาขยะ รวมทั้งวิธีการกำจัดของเสียอื่นๆ ที่สร้างมลพิษ ยิ่งกว่านั้น การต่อต้านพลังงานนิวเคลียร์ที่อ่อนกระแสลงไป อาจทำให้ไม่มีเทคโนโลยีใดที่จะทำให้ประชากรโลกลุกฮือ ขึ้นต่อต้านได้มากเท่ากับโรงงานเผาขยะและวิธีกำจัดขอ งเสียที่สร้างมลพิษ รัฐบาลประเทศต่างๆ จึงต้องคำนึงถึงการเลือกใช้เทคโนโลยีที่ปลอดภัยและยั ่งยืนมากยิ่งขึ้น"
การต่อต้านจากสาธารณชนส่งผลเสียต่อผู้ได้รับประโยชน์ จากโรงงานเผาขยะไปทั่วโลก ใน 15 ปีที่ผ่านมา การเคลื่อนไหวของประชาชนทั่วไป ส่งผลให้มีการยกเลิกโครงการก่อสร้างโรงงานเผาขยะในสห รัฐอเมริกาไปมากกว่า 300 โรงงาน ในญี่ปุ่น พลังมวลชนส่งผลให้มีการปิดโรงงานเผาขยะไปมากกว่ า 500 แห่งในระยะเวลาสองสามปี และล่าสุดรัฐบาลใน 15 ประเทศได้ประกาศห้ามการก่อสร้างโรงงานเผาขยะในบางส่ว นของประเทศ ในขณะที่ ฟิลิปปินส์ได้ประกาศห้ามอย่างเด็ดขาด
การจัดแถลงข่าวของกรีนพีซในวันนี้ ดำเนินการพร้อมกับช่วงที่มีการประชุมตัวแทนจากรัฐบาล ประเทศต่างๆ เรื่อง "อนุสัญญาสต็อกโฮล์ม" ว่าด้วยการกำจัดมลพิษตกค้าง (POPs) ที่กรุงเจนีวา สวิตเซอร์แลนด์ ซึ่งแนวโน้มของการประชุมครั้งนี้ได้เน้นไปที่ การกำจัดสารพิษสองชนิดที่เกิดขึ้นจากโรงงานเผาขยะให้ หมดไปจากสภาพแวดล้อม ได้แก่ ไดออกซิน และ ฟิวแรน ซึ่งเป็นสารพิษที่ทำลายยากที่สุดและทำให้เป็นโรคมะเร ็ง
การประชุมได้ระบุชัดเจนว่า โรงงานเผาขยะทุกประเภท รวมทั้งเตาเผาขยะสารพิษ เป็นผู้ก่อให้เกิดและปล่อยสารพิษสามชนิดสู่สิ่งแวดล้ อม ได้แก่ ไดออกซิน ฟิวแรน และ โพลิคลอริเนต ไบเพนนิล และได้ให้คำแนะนำเกี่ยวกับการใช้เทคโนโลยีอื่นในการก ำจัดขยะ เพื่อยุติการก่อให้เกิดมลพิษแก่สิ่งแวดล้อม ไม่ว่าจะโดยตั้งใจหรือไม่ก็ตาม ซึ่งองค์การสหประชาชาติด้านสิ่งแวดล้อม ได้รายงานว่า ร้อยละ 69 ของปริมาณ ไดออกซิน ทั้งหมดในสภาพแวดล้อม เกิดจากโรงงานเผาขยะ
ผู้สนใจทุกท่านสามารถดึงรายงานเรื่อง ได้จาก www.no-burn.org โดยไม่เสียค่าใช้จ่ายใดๆ (รายงานนี้จัดทำให้เครือข่าย โดยนีล ทันกรี ประกอบด้วยรายละเอียดผลเสียของโรงงานเผาขยะ และการรวมพลังทั่วโลกในการต่อต้านการเผาขยะ
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=38604&postcount=1725
for the record

whitemajikman

12-12-2005, 07:18 PM

for the record

Your Days are numbered.......FLY.......

LMAO

WMM

jayreynolds

12-14-2005, 08:38 PM

for the record
It was all greek to me.

halva

12-16-2005, 10:28 AM

The most destructive crop on earth is no solution to the energy crisis

By promoting biodiesel as a substitute, we have missed the fact that it is worse than the fossil-fuel burning it replaces

George Monbiot
Tuesday December 6, 2005
Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5349045-103390,00.html

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

Over the past two years I have made an uncomfortable discovery. Like most environmentalists, I have been as blind to the constraints affecting our energy supply as my opponents have been to climate change. I now realise that I have entertained a belief in magic.

In 2003, the biologist Jeffrey Dukes calculated that the fossil fuels we burn in one year were made from organic matter "containing 44 x 1018 grams of carbon, which is more than 400 times the net primary productivity of the planet's current biota". In plain English, this means that every year we use four centuries' worth of plants and animals.

The idea that we can simply replace this fossil legacy - and the extraordinary power densities it gives us - with ambient energy is the stuff of science fiction. There is simply no substitute for cutting back. But substitutes are being sought everywhere. They are being promoted today at the climate talks in Montreal, by states - such as ours - that seek to avoid the hard decisions climate change demands. And at least one substitute is worse than the fossil-fuel burning it replaces.

The last time I drew attention to the hazards of making diesel fuel from vegetable oils, I received as much abuse as I have ever been sent for my stance on the Iraq war. The biodiesel missionaries, I discovered, are as vociferous in their denial as the executives of Exxon. I am now prepared to admit that my previous column was wrong. But they're not going to like it. I was wrong because I underestimated the fuel's destructive impact.

Before I go any further, I should make it clear that turning used chip fat into motor fuel is a good thing. The people slithering around all day in vats of filth are performing a service to society. But there is enough waste cooking oil in the UK to meet a 380th of our demand for road transport fuel. Beyond that, the trouble begins.

When I wrote about it last year, I thought that the biggest problem caused by biodiesel was that it set up a competition for land use. Arable land that would otherwise have been used to grow food would instead be used to grow fuel. But now I find that something even worse is happening. The biodiesel industry has accidentally invented the world's most carbon-intensive fuel.

In promoting biodiesel - as the EU, the British and US governments and thousands of environmental campaigners do - you might imagine that you are creating a market for old chip fat, or rapeseed oil, or oil from algae grown in desert ponds. In reality you are creating a market for the most destructive crop on earth.

Last week, the chairman of Malaysia's federal land development authority announced that he was about to build a new biodiesel plant. His was the ninth such decision in four months. Four new refineries are being built in Peninsula Malaysia, one in Sarawak and two in Rotterdam. Two foreign consortiums - one German, one American - are setting up rival plants in Singapore. All of them will be making biodiesel from the same source: oil from palm trees.

"The demand for biodiesel," the Malaysian Star reports, "will come from the European Community ... This fresh demand ... would, at the very least, take up most of Malaysia's crude palm oil inventories." Why? Because it is cheaper than biodiesel made from any other crop.

In September, Friends of the Earth published a report about the impact of palm oil production. "Between 1985 and 2000," it found, "the development of oil-palm plantations was responsible for an estimated 87 per cent of deforestation in Malaysia". In Sumatra and Borneo, some 4 million hectares of forest have been converted to palm farms. Now a further 6 million hectares are scheduled for clearance in Malaysia, and 16.5 million in Indonesia.

Almost all the remaining forest is at risk. Even the famous Tanjung Puting national park in Kalimantan is being ripped apart by oil planters. The orangutan is likely to become extinct in the wild. Sumatran rhinos, tigers, gibbons, tapirs, proboscis monkeys and thousands of other species could go the same way. Thousands of indigenous people have been evicted from their lands, and some 500 Indonesians have been tortured when they tried to resist. The forest fires which every so often smother the region in smog are mostly started by the palm growers. The entire region is being turned into a gigantic vegetable oil field.

Before oil palms, which are small and scrubby, are planted, vast forest trees, containing a much greater store of carbon, must be felled and burnt. Having used up the drier lands, the plantations are moving into the swamp forests, which grow on peat. When they've cut the trees, the planters drain the ground. As the peat dries it oxidises, releasing even more carbon dioxide than the trees. In terms of its impact on both the local and global environments, palm biodiesel is more destructive than crude oil from Nigeria.

The British government understands this. In a report published last month, when it announced that it would obey the EU and ensure that 5.75% of our transport fuel came from plants by 2010, it admitted "the main environmental risks are likely to be those concerning any large expansion in biofuel feedstock production, and particularly in Brazil (for sugar cane) and south-east Asia (for palm oil plantations)."

It suggested that the best means of dealing with the problem was to prevent environmentally destructive fuels from being imported. The government asked its consultants whether a ban would infringe world trade rules. The answer was yes: "Mandatory environmental criteria ... would greatly increase the risk of international legal challenge to the policy as a whole." So it dropped the idea of banning imports, and called for "some form of voluntary scheme" instead. Knowing that the creation of this market will lead to a massive surge in imports of palm oil, knowing that there is nothing meaningful it can do to prevent them, and knowing that they will accelerate rather than ameliorate climate change, the government has decided to go ahead anyway.

At other times it happily defies the EU. But what the EU wants and what the government wants are the same. "It is essential that we balance the increasing demand for travel," the government's report says, "with our goals for protecting the environment." Until recently, we had a policy of reducing the demand for travel. Now, though no announcement has been made, that policy has gone. Like the Tories in the early 1990s, the Labour administration seeks to accommodate demand, however high it rises. Figures obtained last week by the campaigning group Road Block show that for the widening of the M1 alone the government will pay £3.6bn - more than it is spending on its entire climate change programme. Instead of attempting to reduce demand, it is trying to alter supply. It is prepared to sacrifice the south-east Asian rainforests in order to be seen to be doing something, and to allow motorists to feel better about themselves.

All this illustrates the futility of the technofixes now being pursued in Montreal. Trying to meet a rising demand for fuel is madness, wherever the fuel might come from. The hard decisions have been avoided, and another portion of the biosphere is going up in smoke.

jayreynolds

12-17-2005, 08:49 AM

Polar routes could shorten Asian flights
February 2, 2001
Web posted at: 12:06 AM EST (0506 GMT)
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/02/01/asia.russia/index.html

MOSCOW, Russia -- Russia has opened up four polar air routes for the first time since the Cold War, a move that could trim two hours off flights from North America to Asia.

The new routes allow nonstop flights between such cities as Vancouver, Canada, and Beijing, or New York and Bangkok, Thailand, for long-haul jets.

The four new routes were officially opened for routine air navigation Thursday, said Russia's Deputy Transport Minister Pavel Pozhkov.

"These routes are in principle the shortest possible from cities in North America to East Asia," he said.

A study by Russian and Canadian aviation agencies released in October said flight times from North America to Asia could be cut by more than two hours if airlines use the new routes.

It suggested airlines could save up to hundreds of millions of dollars on fuel and other expenses.

Russia has allowed some international flights over the pole since 1998 to test the viability of the new routes. The entire Russian Arctic region was strictly off limits during the Cold War.

The new routes continue a process begun in 1993, when Russia agreed to open two flight paths cutting across territory in the Far East. The move has saved airlines fuel and money.

The westernmost new route brings jets near the city of Novosibirsk in western Siberia, about 2,800 kilometers (1,750 miles) east of Moscow.

The easternmost path flies by Yakutsk in eastern Siberia, about 4,800 kilometers (3,000 miles) east of Moscow.

Now pilots will have the possibility to choose between the six flight paths over Russian territory depending on weather conditions on any given day.

The study also recommended that about $37 million be invested in improving Russian air traffic control facilities along the way to increase the number of planes that can make the trip safely each day.

United Airlines Inc. and Northwest Airlines Corp. already operate limited test flights over the North Pole. It was not clear whether any airline would use the new routes Thursday.

jayreynolds

12-23-2005, 04:47 AM

After almost two years and 190 pages, Wayne Hall has conceded the debate and withdrawn to lick his wounds.
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=454512&postcount=10

foot_soldier

12-23-2005, 09:44 AM

Congratulations - you big "winner" you.

halva

12-23-2005, 10:27 AM

What is he claiming?

foot_soldier

12-23-2005, 10:32 AM

After almost two years and 190 pages, Wayne Hall has conceded the debate and withdrawn to lick his wounds.
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=454512&postcount=10
.

halva

12-23-2005, 10:38 AM

This was the posting in its entirety.

I am not going to engage with J. Raynolds any more on the subject of chemtrails, because I do not believe he is sincere in the statements he makes and he has no way of proving to me that he is.

On the subject of Israel however, I believe that Reynolds does make sincere postings and I will override my ignore-listing of him on this subject (and on this subject only).

I would welcome feedback from Jay Reynolds on the following propositions:

1) Israel should seek entry into the European Union and the European Union should seek to have Israel as a member.

2) The European Union should become nuclear-weapons free (perhaps in a bilateral deal with Russia) and renunciation of nuclear weapons by Israel should be set as a prerequisite for membership of the nuclear-weapons-free European Union.

3) Laws against 'holocaust denial' should be abolished in any European Union states which have made 'holocaust denial' illegal.

There are many other security issues to be factored into the general conception sketched here, but in general terms it would not be contrary to the spirit of the proposal as I see it that the United States could continue to have security obligations in relation to Israel. Also renunciation of nuclear weapons by the United States is not something I insist on, though I defend the American people's right to raise such a demand if they choose to.

jayreynolds

12-23-2005, 06:54 PM

3) Laws against 'holocaust denial' should be abolished in any European Union states which have made 'holocaust denial' illegal.

You don't believe a word of that, Wayne. You are just pandering to Jimmy Piggy in hopes that you can use him to gain credibility! Only Wayne Hall would be so internally contradicted as to do such a thing. Well, perhaps 'footsoldier' would as well........

Besides, you've always advocated censorship of unpopular viewpoints as an essential tenet of 'democracy', why change just now?
Gotcha!

halva

01-12-2006, 07:32 PM

New Body Screeners in use in London: We are living in a dystopian nightmare
Witness The "Panopticon" mass surveillance prison in operation

Steve Watson | January 12 2006

A high-tech body scanner for detecting would-be terrorists has been unveiled at London's Paddington station ahead of a four-week trial, the BBC reports.

Passengers will be randomly selected to pass through the seven-metre box at the Heathrow Express platforms, while baggage is also screened.

Other technology being tested includes advanced closed circuit television systems programmed to sound an alarm when they spot suspicious behaviour.

The implementation of such technology represents a giant leap into a total surveillance Big Brother society. People are faced with walking into booths raising their hands above their heads like they're a criminal and being electronically scanned by a machine that produces a naked image of their body.

Yet as you have seen from the video above the general consensus is total acceptance. The only negative comment in the report comes from a commuter who is worried that the process may add a few minutes onto his journey.

(continued: http://infowars.net/articles/january2006/120106scanners.htm)

halva

01-12-2006, 07:35 PM

Note from Canada:

At the Candidates meeting in Belleville a question regarding chemtrails was directed to the NDP candidate McMahon, asking regarding "aerial sprayings" from the US called "Chemtrails". Then all of a sudden the AUDIO TO THE MODERATOR WAS CUT while he repeated the question because McMahon was playing dumb and then he said anything coming out of planes was only water vapor and not toxic, and that agricultural spraying would be done from very low altitude and would not come from the US....................... then there was laughing from the audience.

This was on CJBQ radio where a woman was cut off a phone in show years ago when she brought up chemtrails and the host called chemtrails an 'Elvis is alive' story...............

whitemajikman

01-12-2006, 11:01 PM

bump

jayreynolds

01-13-2006, 04:07 AM

halva

01-19-2006, 09:21 PM

Stan Goff's 'Exterminism' articles at 'From the Wilderness' are now completed.

This is the conclusion:

"The strongest resistance is now coming from the world system’s non-citizens, and that is precisely why any assessment of the revolutionary potential of any section of metropolitan society needs to assess the degree of citizenship they perceive themselves to have… or not.

Venezuela’s revolution right now involves awarding meaningful citizenship to the disenfranchised. First the Constitution was rewritten to transfer citizen-power to the masses from the ruling class. Then the basis of every literacy program was teaching the people how to read and understand that new Constitution. In Iraq, where the US is facing its deepest crisis, the very state, which creates the basis for citizenship, has been destroyed and replaced with an irascible and opportunistic rump government that has neither autonomy nor legitimacy. The tactical strength of the resistance and its strategic weakness is its deracination, its statelessness. In Bolivia, the source of resistance is the indigenous population – long frozen out of political power by the racist elites.

What is working is beyond the envelope. Political uprootedness and social embeddedness. In Venezuela, it is establishing citizenship outside the world system paradigm. Social embeddedness in Cuba, combined with manageable scale and the forced march toward sustainability, mobilizing full citizenship, has given that nation the means to survive. In Bolivia, the status of non-citizenship left indigenous forces with nothing to lose by using the weapons of general strike and blockade of the cities – the nerve centers of world system integration. Peasants in Nepal, Haiti, and the Philippines… outsiders. External to the system.

The victims of Katrina – especially the Black victims, whose refusal to buy the explicit White nationalism of the Republican Party is a reflection of lack of citizenship – now scattered in a Diaspora within a Diaspora – are on the brink of a struggle to reclaim their homes from the ruling class looters. This is a struggle against slow extermination, and if the left and other progressives want to face up to the challenge of exterminism, then there is the front line… this is where we renounce our semi- citizenship and begin to re-map the way to the future, using the weapons of the masses – general strike, urban blockade, secession. Build the consciousness for these struggles, instead of managed elections, and we will push out the envelope.

The crisis of legitimacy is latent right now. It will become real when the storm surge hits the white suburbs. That is coming.

But the left cannot be complacent, because without intervention the reaction to that crisis will be deeply…. reaction-ARY. Now is the time to (1) seriously re-found a domestic politics of resistance, (2) base the leadership core that resistance in populations who are not “full citizens” in the United States, and (3) focus that resistance in the Sunbelt. This in no way suggests that everyone drop everything and run off to Louisiana to join Black rebel armies. The most critical initial tasks include winning over as large a section of white America as possible to a non-reactionary understanding of the period, supporting and strengthening the struggle against the US wars in Southwest Asia, and supporting and strengthening the institutions, intellectuals, and authentic political/community leaders in the internal colonies of the United States.

Out of the very broad antiwar movement, which is now representative of the views of the US majority, two things need to emerge.

First, the development of political independence from the Democratic Party. This timid, moribund formation is the graveyard of resistance politics, and the sooner it dies the better. This requires an aggressive effort to develop and teach resistance politics that is not primarily electoral-legislative, but more and more openly disruptive.

Second, a broad political alternative must be developed to give an independent alternative an organizational assertion. That will not be yet another leftist sect.

My most tentative suggestion is that of a red, black, and green alliance – and not just because of my deep sympathy for Black nationalism. There are hundreds of thousands of socialists (red) often unaffiliated with any sect, and hundreds of thousands of politically active African Americans (black) who feel like taking a bath every time they are forced yet again to vote for a spineless white Democrat who will invariably forget them in the second week of November. There are hundreds of thousands of people across the spectrum who understand the depth of the environmental crisis we have been driven into, and who are just as deeply skeptical about “green-capitalism” schemes continually trotted out by multi-million dollar enviro non-profits like the Sierra Club. This kind of alliance must also be willing to struggle against the legacy of patriarchy from right and left, and ensure that more than half of all leadership positions in every project and formation are independently operating women.

The key to white activists supporting this critical effort is twofold. Accept Black leadership, and share resources.

The political organizing of such an alliance should be as far as possible locally-rooted, and committed to building the alternative institutions we will need as the state continues to careen into the cul-de-sac of de-legitimacy. In specific cases, like New Orleans, there must be national efforts to fight not just for immediate relief, but to fight the imperatives of exterminism – displacement and dispersion. The fight for New Orleans has to start with the repatriation of every willing resident to the 9th Ward, but it cannot end until the toxins are cleaned up, the schools are funded and effective, and the residents themselves are organized to fight for their own self-determination."

jayreynolds

01-20-2006, 03:49 AM

Let the record show that Wayne Hall blithely refuses to respond to the reality that his claim on the first page of this thread:

It is time for there to be exposure, and honest public debate, about what is ALREADY being done by the proponents of geoengineering 'solutions'.
has been found to be a false one.

The reality is that if such a program were indeed underway, earth's startospheric aerosol levels would be increasing and eath's albedo would also be increasing.

Instead, earth's aerosol levels are decreasing and as a result, albedo is also [decreasing[/b]. This is fact, as laid out in detail here:
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35721

Thus, Wayne Hall is unable to respond subtantively and instead posts unresponsive irrelevant 'revolutionary' rhetoric. So sad.

halva

01-20-2006, 08:37 AM

The term 'exterminism' was coined in the early 1980s by E.P. Thompson for his book of that period "Exterminism and Cold War".

See http://www.trinstitute.org/ojpcr/p3_1baehr.htm

Its resurrection by Stan Goff is an interesting development, testifying to a desire for re-establishment of continuity in a milieu whose record is one of persisting discontinuity, even aphasia, for the last fifteen years.

halva

01-20-2006, 08:44 AM

But there have been similar attempts in Europe. (http://www.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipade3?PROG=REPORT&L=EN&PUBREF=-//EP//TEXT+REPORT+A4-1999-0005+0+DOC+SGML+V0//EN&LEVEL=2&NAV=S)

jayreynolds

01-20-2006, 11:32 AM

What is known about levels of stratospheric aerosols since 1999?

The World Climate Research Program sponsors the Stratospheric Processes And their Role in Climate(SPARC) study. This effort consists of scientists from the US, UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, and many others who observe, record, and analyze stratospheric aerosols.
The latest SPARC Report on the Assessment of Stratospheric Aerosol Properties finds that current stratospheric aerosol levels are about 1/2 million tons, compared to their post-Pinatubo high of 20 million tons. This low level is considered a "background" level which is reached approximately 100 months after a major volcanic eruption. Trends of aerosol loading over the past 30 years are essentially zero, with no general increase or decrease in background levels.
http://www.atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca/SPARC/News23/23_Thomason.html
http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&range=1&directget=1&application=sm05&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Findexes%2Fsm05%2 Fsm05&maxhits=200&="A53B-01"

Archived Total Aerosol Extinction at 1020nm data is available free online. At the link below, you can set parameters to retrieve global views of aerosol amounts from 1985-2003. These views show essentially no change in aerosol loading values above background levels since 1999.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/sageii/sageii_v6.cgi

If a geoengineering program of any significant scale were taking place, the aerosol loading data would show a marked increase.
The data shows no such change.

What is known about measurements of earth's albedo since 1999?

In the May 6, 2005, issue of the journal Science, NASA's CERES Science Team reported Earth’s shortwave albedo has been steadily declining since the Terra CERES instrument began making the measurement in February 2000. Over the 4-year span (2000 through 2004), the CERES instrument measured an albedo decrease of 0.0027, which equals 0.9 watt of energy per square meter retained in the Earth system.
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=16905
http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/~tak/wong/f16.pdf

If a geoengineering program of any sort were taking place, earth's albedo would be increasing.
The data show that, instead, earth's albedo is decreasing.

halva

01-21-2006, 11:36 PM

Jeremy Rifkin was here a couple of days ago, talking about 'the hydrogen economy'.

He claims to favour production of hydrogen using 'green' (i.e. renewable) energy sources, and he says that Greece is a 'green Saudi Arabia' in that it is a natural for development of both wind energy and solar energy.

But in Greece too we see diminution of our skies' natural blueness, and of the potential that Rifkin wants to make us feel hopeful about.

It is wrong to become engaged in naive dialogue with those who claim insincerely to believe this diminution is not occurring. Such people must be dealt with politically. That is to say, interaction with them, if any, is to be initiated under conditions and in a manner, of our own choosing, and always in such a way as to be to their disadvantage.

We 'are letting' the degradation happen if our interaction with such people (and the interests with which they have identified) remains UNPOLITICAL i.e. reactive, moralistic, emotional. Being like this means consenting to a situation in which they are the political players and we the objects of their manipulation.

It is unfortunate that here at Arianna's we are not all agreed on a political approach (we have not all agreed to ignore-list [or even "ignore-list"] Reynolds and supporters). As a result, the best that can be achieved here is a holding operation. The board is not surrendered to their side, but on the other hand, people of quality with something to say and naive supporters of our positions, are both driven away, the former by BC, the latter by me. We cannot afford to have fools here 'supporting' us, but by the same token no intelligent person is going to put up with the debunkers here for very long, if he or she doesn't have a very serious reason for staying.

This is what makes BC's habitual welcoming ceremonies so very grotesque.

Yes, I know, when friends have babies, bringing children into this deeply horrible world, we congratulate them and react with happiness. And as the babies grow up we still keep behaving towards them as if we [and they] are autonomous agents and masters of our destiny. This is the grammar [the etiquette] of everyday, non-political, social interaction.

Some people are also privileged to be members of networks, mostly on the internet, but for the truly privileged in real life also, in which things can be called by their true name, and reality confronted. Anyone so networked seeks to expand and protect the network.

But In fact both life contexts need protection, the apolitical and the political alike. Here in Europe there is some elementary instinctive social defence against influences like that of Reynolds, even if political defences are underdeveloped and fragmented. In the United States you appear to be unprotected at any level and I deeply pity you.

halva

01-22-2006, 10:20 AM

The Dangers of Nuclear War: Interview with Michel Chossudovsky

January 19, 2006
Coop Radio Vancouver

Jan. 2, 2006 - Monday Brownbagger

Co-op radio, CFRO 102.7 FM,
Vancouver, B.C., Canada

Interviewer: Don Nordin
Guest: Michel Chossudovsky

DN: I have on the line today Michel Chossudovsky,

He is a professor of economics at the University of Ottawa, and we will be basing the programme today on an article that he has recently written (entitled "The Anglo-American War of Terror - An Overview") that is on the website: http://globalresearch.ca and it centers around the problems in the Middle East particularly (in) Iran. Welcome to the programme, today, Michel.

[see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Chossudovsky and http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ONE311A.html.]

MC: Well, it's a pleasure to be on the programme. Greetings and best wishes to everybody in British Columbia.

DN: And you wanted to focus on the issue of Iran. Now, it seems like we are looking at a situation building up with Iran and it is centered around the terrorism, used as a pretext for this agenda that they are building up, this global domination agenda.

Do you want to just get into that a bit, Michel, and maybe you could talk around the issue of the imminent war against Iran?

MC: For the last year or so, the United States, Israel and Turkey have been preparing an aerial bombing of Iran. This went into the planning stage back in November of 2004. In other words, it's over a year now and essentially this operation is using the pretext of Iran's nuclear programme to bomb its nuclear facilities. In fact, what is actually being planned is a nuclear war and that nuclear war has nothing to do with Iran. It has to do with nuclear weapons, which are slated to be used by the United States and Israel and I have looked into the various documents behind this.

We are not talking about surgical strikes. That's what's being presented to public opinion - that the United States is going to embark on surgical strikes directed against Iran with a view to making the world safer and it's all based on the idea that Israel is threatened and so on and so forth. In fact, what is being planned is an all out nuclear war using tactical nuclear weapons against Iran. And this is something, which is not widely known, although it's confirmed in a number of military documents. (The air assault) would use tactical nuclear weapons, which have an explosive capacity between 1/3, and 6 times the Hiroshima bomb.

I should mention that these tactical nuclear weapons, which are often referred to as 'mini-nukes,' are now in a sense re-classified - in fact they are considered as conventional weapons and the distinction between conventional and nuclear weapons has been blurred following a decision in the U.S. Senate, December 2003, which essentially allows for these so-called mini nukes to be used in conventional war theatres and in fact, the senate decision was reached after a propaganda campaign waged by the Pentagon, which enlisted nuclear scientists to the fact these nuclear bombs were harmless to civilians, quote, unquote. That's exactly the term they used, that these nuclear weapons are "harmless to civilians" because the explosion is underground, and the system of delivery would be very similar to the conventional bunker buster bombs.

But what is now very disturbing is that actually the timeline for this operation has already been announced - March of 2006. In other words, in the next three months. This (timeline) has been confirmed by the Israelis. Prime Minister Sharon has made the statement. His political opponents, in particular Benjamin Netanyahu, have confirmed that they are also in agreement with this posture – that they will wage surgical strikes against Iran. But if you look at it in a broader context, you will realize that this is not strictly an Israeli operation. It's an operation, which involves the United States, Turkey, and Israel as the main military actors but which is firmly supported by America's coalition partners in NATO. In other words, NATO has given its approval to this military operation. There are no dissenting voices within the Atlantic military alliance as occurred prior to the war in Iraq and in effect, I think that there won't be many dissenting voices in the United Nations Security Council, and eventually a pretext will be built that Iran is a threat to global security in view of its nuclear programme, and that is of course a very controversial issue. But as to whether this is up for civilian use or for military use, but there is no evidence that Iran at this stage is developing nuclear weapons.

But what we're dealing with here is the fact that the United States wants to launch a nuclear war. o.k.? And if it launches a nuclear with Israel, what's going to happen is this is going to affect a much broader region. The war is going to extend to the entire Middle Eastern region; it's going to lead to radioactive contamination over a large part of that region and, in other words, if we thought we were in a situation of chaos and war crimes in Iraq, we really haven't seen what is planned ahead because this is a major military operation which is being envisaged.

I have been reviewing a number of military documents to that effect, and they are now talking about what is called Concept Plan 8022. Now Concept Plan 8022 is a plan, which would be implemented by US Strategic Command, which is located at the Offutt Military Base in Nebraska. Essentially, it's an air force base. And this Concept plan consists in what they call "global strike"; it combines both conventional as well as nuclear strikes, and it integrates the actions of the navy and the air force and then of course, it would be implemented from US military facilities in the Persian Gulf or in the Indian Ocean, in particular, Diego Garcia, the military base, the extremely large US facility strategically located in the Indian Ocean, which is a joint navy/air force base in Diego Garcia, in the Chagos Archipelago and from there they would implement the aerial bombardments and also the missile attacks.

And so if this plan goes ahead, we are really entering into a World War III scenario. I believe we are already in World War III. World War III started at the beginning of the post Cold war era, with the wars in Yugoslavia, but this is a new stage in the deployment of America's war machine with devastating consequences for the future of humanity.

DN: Now these targets - they are supposedly aiming at these nuclear facilities. Are those located near to populated areas?

MC: Well, absolutely, they are heavily populated, and I don't think they will limit these strikes strictly to these facilities. I should mention that even if they use conventional weapons against these nuclear facilities, the explosions at those facilities would in fact trigger the spread of radioactivity over a vast area because these are nuclear power plants, and so on, which would be targeted. But from what I understand, reading some of the background material, is that what is contemplated is an operation in terms of air strikes similar to what Donald Rumsfeld implemented in March 2003 on Baghdad, prior to the actual invasion. In other words, this 'shock and awe' blitzkrieg type of bombing would occur and that is confirmed in fact by statements of the U.S. military and we are talking about a very large deployment, again as I said, comparable to the US bombing raids on Iraq at the outset of the war.

DN: Now when you speak of these tactical nuclear weapons having the power of anywhere from 1/3 to 6 times a Hiroshima bomb, and we've seen the damage that those bombs did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I would think that even ones with 1/3 the power - I guess they would be the ones that maybe they would use to take out a nuclear plant - would do a lot of damage. But I can't imagine where they would use one 6 times the power of a Hiroshima bomb.

MC: I'm not entirely clear as to the explosive capacity of the bombs that they are planning to use. I think you're right that the ones that are being contemplated to be delivered, let's say, with B-52 bombers, wouldn't be the larger ones, o.k? They would be delivered in much the same way as the conventional bunker buster bombs; it's the B-61-11, which is the nuclear version of the conventional Blue 1-13. I think those are in fact probably of the order of about 1/2 of the Hiroshima bomb.

But I think when we see that this process is unleashed - once this process is triggered, we may be in a situation where the U.S. military is landing several nuclear devices in different parts of Iran and we must understand – and that's also very important - is that Iran has the capacity to retaliate in many different ways. It has stated that it will retaliate. It has acquired rather sophisticated air defense systems. Russia has delivered the equipment to it.

This war which is contemplated by its architects as an aerial operation, could well lead into a ground war. ok? The whole idea of Con Plan is that you don't have any deployment of ground troops, and in fact, you have minimal risk for your air force.

But what happens if Iran decides to confront U.S. troops stationed in Iraq across the border, in northern Iraq? What happens if Iran retaliates and sends its own missiles towards U.S. facilities in the Persian Gulf or Israel for that matter? So we are dealing with an extremely dangerous scenario.

halva

01-22-2006, 10:21 AM

People don't realize - I don't think the military planners realize themselves the implications of this military agenda. And we are in a situation where in fact the military planners, the people who actually devise the bombing strategies, not the politicians necessarily, they actually don't realize that these nuclear weapons are in fact nuclear weapons, because the military manuals that they consult and which have been drafted by the science labs and the weapons factories and so on, stipulate that these tactical nuclear weapons are "harmless to civilians" because the explosion is underground. Now when a 3-star general picks up the military manual, and says "ha, ha, here we are, it explains that these weapons are harmless to civilians, let's go ahead and use them". And so what we have is a situation where the authors of this military propaganda, in fact, are feeding this propaganda to their own their own military command structures, so that those who devise the propaganda believe in the propaganda which they themselves are promoting. And that's a very dangerous situation when people actually believe within the system, within the command system - high ranking officers, 3-star generals, 4-star generals - actually believe that these nuclear weapons are harmless, well then we are really in a fix because all the safeguards which have protected us from a nuclear holocaust have been literally broken down.

And I don't think anybody really seriously has contemplated what is behind this military agenda. I mean there are a number of people around the world who know and understand, but because the matter has literally not been debated in the mainstream media, it's not the object of media attention, it never reaches the front pages, andS Perhaps what's going to happen is there is going to be a nuclear war in Iran and then we are going to get a blip on the evening news, which will follow various other news items saying "yes, there's been a nuclear war" but they won't even say it's a nuclear war, they will say something else because the nuclear explosions may not be acknowledged as nuclear explosions until much later.

And I should mention that the bunker buster bombs and the nuclear versions are quite different but you can't always say whether there is a nuclear explosion or a conventional explosion because the bunker buster bomb creates such a (large) explosion that it could be nuclear or it could be conventional. But of course the difference is that in one case you have radioactive materials which are spreading over a vast area and leading to literally the devastation of all forms of life for millions of years.

And so people, I don't think realize, at what juncture we are presently (at) in our history. I think it's absolutely devastating.

DN: Well, this is something new, Michel, this use of nuclear weapons on the battlefield. Why would they turn to nuclear weapons? Why wouldn't they just stick to high intensity explosives?

MC: Well, I think there are many different reasons to that. First of all, there is a little bit of history.

Two years ago in August of 2003, in fact it was on Hiroshima Day, the Pentagon invited the private sector, namely the military-industrial complex, to a meeting held at the Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska, Strategic Command Headquarters and at that meeting they more or less requested the private sector to define the nuclear agenda. Previously you had the Nuclear Posture Review, which was passed in the Senate in the beginning of 2002. But this 2003 meeting was very important because what it did is it privatized nuclear war. And it involved the military contractors, the producers of weapons systems, not only in the production side but also in the consumption side so that they actually said to the nuclear weapons producers, well, listen, tell us how we are going to use these weapons, we have to define a military agenda. And so they now have in effect, they have
privatized nuclear war.

And so that it is a market driven, profit making operation to produce bombs because the more bombs you produce the more money you make, and you have a military allocation of 450 billion dollars a year out of the public purse, not to mention the 200 billion dollars which is allocated to finance the war in Iraq. You are talking about something of the order of an annual basis, which is certainly in excess of 500 billion dollars, not to mention all the black budgets and the amounts which are channeled into shell companies, which are controlled either by U.S. military or intelligence, and so it is a very profitable venture for military contractors, security companies, mercenary companies, and so on.

And so I think that's the consensus - and how you reach that consensus is by building, of course, pretexts for waging war, which is what we are dealing with - and the 'fact' that the nuclear weapons are harmless. The war on Iran is a market driven war. It's profit for the military contractors, and the military-industrial complex. It's profit for the oil companies because the ultimate objective is to confiscate Iran's oil reserves. It's to establish control over that broader area, which is the Central Asia, Middle East area, which encompasses 70% of (world) oil and gas reserves, and ultimately it is also intended to confront other major economic powers in the world, namely Russia and China, both of which have a sizeable interest in that region, and I should say also the Europeans, the European Union.

But it would appear in this particular case, there is some kind of tacit understanding with Germany and France in particular, on sharing the spoils of war and I think that is why we are leading up to a military operation where there will be ultimately consensus, much in the same way as (with) Yugoslavia. When Yugoslavia was invaded and bombed in 1999, and even before that, when Germany and NATO and the United Nations interfered in the Yugoslav civil war in the early nineties, there was a consensus. The consensus was between the United States, Germany, and broadly the Western military alliance. And what you see emerging now is pretty much the same situation. There's no dissenting voice anywhere.

In fact, even the frontline Arab states including Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, and Algeria have been sucked into this project. Early this year several countries of the eastern Mediterranean conducted military exercises with several Arab countries. And these countries were conducting military exercises with Turkey and Israel. And so you can see how, in effect, under NATO auspices they managed to bring in these countries, at least the leaders of these countries, not necessarily the people, but the leaders of these countries - which are increasingly serving U.S. interest - and how they managed to put them together in joint military exercises with Israel, so that there doesn't seem to be much of a dissenting voice in the Middle East with regard to this military operation directed against Iran - although if we go into a scenario of nuclear war or even a conventional war, in other words, conventional aerial attack, in all likelihood this war is going to spread to the entire Middle Eastern region because at present what do we have? We've three separate war theatres: Afghanistan, Iraq, and Palestine.

But if Israel is involved in the coalition, in the Anglo-American coalition, officially - of course unofficially it has been part of the coalition for some time - but if Israel is officially involved in the coalition, and if the war extends into Iran and if Turkey is involved, you can see just by looking at the map, that whole area is going to explode. And if nuclear weapons are used, well, the consequences of course affect everybody on this planet because nuclear radioactive material will spread and it will spread in a very broad area of the world and the likelihood is the war itself could extend into other frontiers. That region borders on the former Soviet Union; it also borders onto China. Afghanistan has a border with China; that whole area is militarized with U.S. military bases scattered all over the place in the former Soviet republics and as I mentioned a ground war is not to be excluded either. It's a very grim scenario and it means that we have to do everything in our power in the next few months to reverse the tide.

DN: Next we go to the major powers, which are, I suppose, Russia, China, and India, who are not very far away from even the present fighting in Iraq and they will be even closer to the fighting that threatens the world in Iran. I am just wondering what you think - I think I have heard Russia say that if there are any attacks on Iran, that it will retaliate in some way. China is certainly not going to be happy about things that are going on there. I don't think I've heard anything from them.

But on the other hand, neither China nor Russia have really made any statements overtly in the diplomatic arena. Now Russia is supporting Iran in terms of weapons delivery - that we know. I mean even though the Russians are not making any public statements, but that's part of the game. I mean, that goes back to the Cold War era that Vladimir Putin is not going to make any controversial statement directed against the U.S. military agenda.

I think there was some statement that came from one of the minister of defense or something like that. It wasn't a statement from Putin.

MC: No, that's entirely possible that people in the Russian parliament, in the Russian military, can make certain statements about what's going on. But again they are very cautious and they also have their own hidden agenda.

halva

01-22-2006, 10:26 AM

But I think we have to take very seriously the fact that the Russians are supplying Iranians with an air defense system, a very sophisticated air defense system. They have actually also assisted the Iranians to establish a satellite, a spy satellite network, which will give them early warnings of an Israeli attack and so they signed a very large contract with Russia to put this spy satellite into orbit. This was actually confirmed in the Sunday Times report recently, and so we are not simply - we are dealing with a situation where in fact Iran has the capabilities - perhaps it doesn't the capabilities to challenge the United States military but it certainly has the capabilities of defending itself to a limited degree and it has also the capability of responding and those capabilities.

We are talking about a country of some 60 million people. It's not a small dot on the map. It has a very educated population. They have capabilities to address this aggression and I suspect that people in Iran will rally behind the president irrespective of whether they support him or not. That's a logical reaction which occurs in times of war. So it certainly is something to bear in mind. I sincerely wish it would be part of our election campaign here in Canada. It should be part of the election campaign. There we have a war, an ongoing war in Iraq, and the next phase of this war has already been announced and the next phase of this war could be as deadly as the ongoing phase of this war.

DN: But you don't think that in the event of aggression against Iran there would be any sort of military reaction from Russia or China at all?

MC: I don't think that there would be any reaction from Russia or China directly, no. There may be military cooperation between Russia and Iran, which is in any event ongoing. But I think the nature of diplomacy is that these two competing powers, they don't wash their dirty linen in public so to speak. When they meet with their counterparts, the United Nations or wherever or the G8, it's all very polite.

Now, there are very important divisions which prevail. There are important divisions within the western alliance as well and so I think what is really needed at this juncture, first of all, (is that) some countervailing diplomacy has to occur.

It's very important that citizens actually pressure their governments to take a stance on this, to take a stance nationally and internationally. In other words, what do political leaders in Canada believe of an impending nuclear holocaust by their closest ally, the United States of America? And this is something very serious, it's not fiction.

Now, how can we reverse the tide? Well, we can reverse the tide at several levels. I don't think it's necessarily through massive demonstrations and so on, and walking through the streets we are going to achieve it. We are going to achieve that by ultimately unseating the military agenda, by unseating the people behind it. In other words by questioning the legitimacy of the main political and military actors and the people who support them. And essentially we are dealing with the Bush administration and so I think that is very important.

But if for instance in Canada, in Western Europe, there would be debate in national parliaments, where leaders would be confronted because in effect it is a conspiracy of silence; nobody is talking about it. Political leaders are not mentioning it; they are not saying they are for or against.

But there has been absolutely no dissenting voice (that) has occurred in the buildup to the invasion of Iraq. Ok? And in a sense this particular phase of the war is far more serious than the previous one, because it is the first time
that coalition partners Israel, Britain and the United States, have actually confirmed their intention to use nuclear weapons against Iran. We are not dealing with some abstract statement.

We are dealing with a pre-emptive nuclear doctrine and that pre-emptive nuclear doctrine has already been formulated in quite a number of texts of the U.S. military. It's confirmed in speeches of the U.S. president and statements by the U.S. military. And unfortunately our anti-war movement is not always aware of these developments and doesn't address them. So that anti-war sentiments from my point of view (are) not enough if we are going to build an anti-war movement based on "Hey, Bush, we are against you" and send postcards or petitions to whoever. That is not enough. We need to dismantle the decision-making process behind the war agenda and that means unseating the rulers who are supporting this particular course of action.

DN: I want to turn the last question around and I want to ask in this march towards global domination by the U.S. and the New World Order forces, do you think there would come a time where New World Order forces would militarily attack either Russia or China or are they getting what they want from those countries now? I mean in terms of economic activity and so forth? Maybe they wouldn't even have to think in terms of that type of activity.

MC: Well there is no question that the National Security doctrine does target China and Russia. Officially in the Nuclear Posture Review of 2002, which was leaked to the Los Angeles Times, China and Russia are explicitly identified as targets for pre-emptive nuclear attacks. Now it is not to say that is anything new because they have always been a target going back to the Cold War era. But the fact that they would be officially identified as targets when in fact they are considered to be allies, at least Russia is considered to be a friend of America, China a bit less. But the fact that they would be officially identified as rogue states, so to speak, indicates that the ultimate objective of this military agenda is global, economic and military domination, and the two remaining super powers in the world, Russia and China, are the targets.

Now you are absolutely right, they already exert significant influence in the area of economic activity, for instance. China now has opened its borders to western banks. Western banks can simply go in and take over the domestic banking business - something which we don't even have in Canada. We don't have foreign banks in Canada, at least not operating freely in an unregulated environment and Citigroup has just acquired very large banking stakes in China. China is the provider of a large share of what we consume on a day-to-day basis, produced in cheap labour factories.

I mean this idea that China is somehow a competing economic power I think has to be qualified because in effect China is really an economic-industrial colony of the West. Without China the whole retail trade would collapse overnight because most of the commodities that we buy in supermarkets and shopping centres are produced in China, at least the consumer durables are produced in China. And so, I think that those inroads into the Chinese economy through inroads in terms of banking - the outsourcing in the manufacturing sectors - all this is happening and it indicates in effect that China is not really a sovereign country; it may have certain appearance of being sovereign but the way it's international trade is organized, its links to international financial institutions and so on makes it very, very much dependent on Western markets and so on.

And that I think is also ultimately part of the military and strategic agenda. Conquest is not strictly based on invading, conquering and so on and taking over countries; it's also based on overseeing the domestic banking system, taking over trade, using country's resources to produce cheap commodities for the Western markets and so on and so forth. And that's certainly true in China.

halva

01-22-2006, 10:27 AM

DN: Russia is somewhat of a different arrangement, but there you can see that Western financial and industrial interests have already made significant inroads into the former Soviet Union. The International Monetary Fund is calling the shots with regard to macro-economic reform. Large amounts of what used to belong to the Soviet state, of state capital and assets, have been transferred into private hands and many of the large companies operating now in Russia, of course, are foreign owned.

MC: Yes, absolutely, the military agenda is one aspect. War and globalization go hand and hand and the extension of the Free Market is supported in turn by the military agenda.

DN: Is it possible that the U.S. could over-extend itself in terms of military spending and their economy could collapse to the point where it couldn't sustain an ongoing New World Order military agenda?

Well, I certainly think that perhaps we are already in that situation. It is over-extended so not much in the capacity to finance, but certainly it is over-extended in the capabilities that it can deploy, mainly, essentially manpower - the fact that it still need troops on the ground and this particular operation, in fact, the Con Plan, it's rationale is really to minimize the use of troops. You don't need to put any boots on the ground. You go in with your missiles, smart bombs, and B-52 bombers and essentially (inflict) large damage to Iran in this particular case, and you don't need to send in any ground troops. But again that scenario in a sense is very theoretical because even an aerial type of military operation could well result in unintended consequences, which eventually lead into a ground war. And I don't think the United States can afford another ground war at this stage.

DN: How cost effective are these nuclear weapons in terms as opposed to conventional weapons in terms of effecting damage to targets? Do you know?

MC: I really don't know what I don't know how much they cost to produce. The thing is that you don't really need to have nuclear weapons to incur damage to these facilities. You could go in with conventional weapons and the damage, the actual damage through explosion, is enough to wipe it out.

DN: Bombs, for instance dead weight bombs, are cheaper to deliver than bombs on the heads of cruise missiles.

MC: Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, that's correct. But the nuclear weapons can be delivered also from a B-52. You don't need to you can use cruise missiles to deliver them but you can also use US long range bombers, which are deployed out of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean, and they can carry both nuclear as well as conventional bombs. And so I don't think there's much of a consideration - as far as delivery is concerned, these new tactical nuclear weapons, the mini-nukes, can be delivered much in the same way as a conventional bunker buster bomb.

In fact, from a military standpoint, there is very little advantage in using a nuclear device; the only difference that I can see is that the nuclear device will kill more people both in the short as well as the long run. But if it's a question of destroying a building or facilities, they can be easily done through run of the mill conventional weapons. But I don't think ultimately that is the purpose of this military operation. The purpose of this military operation is not to disable the nuclear facilities; the purpose is to ultimately destroy a country and to implement very significant civilian casualties, which then opens the door for the conquest of Iran, its oil facilities and so on.

The more fundamental question is when you use nuclear weapons without really assessing the underlying consequences this opens a Pandora's Box and it leads to Pandora's Box is not the correct designation it opens the road, essentially, to a much broader war which could threaten the future of humanity as we know it, and that's not an understatement.

DN: Do you think Iran has any capability of lobbing or sending some sort of a large bomb or weapon over to Tel Aviv?

MC: Well they have the capabilities of retaliating that's for sure, and they have their own generation of ballistic missiles which they intend to use and this is certainly well understood. The Iranians also have these Russian or M-1 anti-missile systems. Certainly they do have the capabilities of responding.

Now the Israelis also have a very sophisticated air defense system. But whatever actually occurs, as soon as – because we have to see the logic really of a military confrontation - as soon as they retaliate, the United States is going to retaliate and Israel is going to retaliate, and they are going to retaliate with more nuclear weapons. So the logic of retaliation in this particular case opens up again the possibility of escalation. I mean that's really what we have to address is the fact if the Iranians decide to retaliate, which they said they will do, and I believe they will, then we expect the American will again retaliate in retaliation.

DN: So Israel is also sitting there with, I don't know, a couple hundred of nuclear ICBM weapons that could be used too at some point.

MC: Well. that is correct, because Israel is the fourth or fifth nuclear power in the world today. Its nuclear arsenal is said to be more advanced and sophisticated than that of Great Britain. But the discussions that I've seen so far do not mention this nuclear arsenal; they don't mention their nuclear arsenal. What they mention is the use of tactical nuclear weapons so that at this stage they are not talking about using their own nuclear warheads. They are talking about using the (U.S.-supplied) min-nukes, but you are absolutely right, if this whole conflict expands and leads to escalation, there is a possibility, of course, that they might decide to use their own thermonuclear weapons against Iran.

DN: Yeah. Well, on that note and in summing up, do you want to take a few minutes to maybe again tell people what you think they should be doing and maybe giving out some contacts?

MC: Well, I think we have to - again, the time span is very, very short. We have to certainly move very swiftly and establish very consist anti-war networks across the land, which are not necessarily geared towards major street marches - those consume a lot of energy - they are necessary, but they are not sufficient. We have to start confronting our political leaders, who are complicit in this war agenda.

Canada is involved in the war in Afghanistan, Haiti; it is involved in joint consultations with the United States leading up to its membership in Northern Command, which is also on the agenda of joint Canada-U.S. negotiations. So I think (Canadians) have to express our dissent in relation to this military agenda and we have to ultimately also challenge the people who are making these decisions on our behalf and we are not going to send them a petition and ask them please, Mr. So and so, Prime Minister, would you be so kind as not to wage war on Iran. That kind of action is, I think, ineffective because it ultimately accepts the legitimacy of those who are actually conducting the war, and these wars are criminal. They are a violation of international law, and we have to ultimately unseat the main political and military actors, which are pushing for this war against Iran, as well as the war and the illegal occupation of Iraq, which are part of the same broad military agenda. So that I think is absolutely crucial.

We have to start the challenge at all levels, municipal, provincial, federal, international and we ultimately have to educate the public.

halva

01-22-2006, 10:28 AM

We have to confront the media-the media is complicit in this project because if it were doing its job it would at least be informing people of the devastating impacts of a nuclear holocaust and it would be explaining to people the use of tactical nuclear weapons means nuclear war. There is no other way of saying it.

And when the United States embarks on a military adventure in which nuclear weapons are presented as some kind of peacekeeping instrument, essentially we can see on what course we are. We are really going to go down the tube so to speak. I mean down the drain, and that's a self-destructive statement because it presents war as a peacekeeping operation and it presents nuclear weapons as some kind of harmless toy and military analysts are fully aware of the implications. Again they are too 'polite' to ultimately address these issues in a broad public arena.

DN: Well, o.k., Michel. People should also check into the website which you are involved with:
http://globalresearch.ca. Check in for information.

foot_soldier

01-22-2006, 11:29 AM

Re: Concept (CONPLAN) Plan 8022

May 15, 2005
The Washington Post

Not Just A Last Resort?
A Global Strike Plan, With a Nuclear Option
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051400071_pf.html

Early last summer, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld approved a top secret "Interim Global Strike Alert Order" directing the military to assume and maintain readiness to attack hostile countries that are developing weapons of mass destruction, specifically Iran and North Korea.

Two months later, Lt. Gen. Bruce Carlson, commander of the 8th Air Force, told a reporter that his fleet of B-2 and B-52 bombers had changed its way of operating so that it could be ready to carry out such missions. "We're now at the point where we are essentially on alert," Carlson said in an interview with the Shreveport (La.) Times. "We have the capacity to plan and execute global strikes." Carlson said his forces were the U.S. Strategic Command's "focal point for global strike" and could execute an attack "in half a day or less."

In the secret world of military planning, global strike has become the term of art to describe a specific preemptive attack. When military officials refer to global strike, they stress its conventional elements. Surprisingly, however, global strike also includes a nuclear option, which runs counter to traditional U.S. notions about the defensive role of nuclear weapons.

The official U.S. position on the use of nuclear weapons has not changed. Since the end of the Cold War, the United States has taken steps to de-emphasize the importance of its nuclear arsenal. The Bush administration has said it remains committed to reducing our nuclear stockpile while keeping a credible deterrent against other nuclear powers. Administration and military officials have stressed this continuity in testimony over the past several years before various congressional committees.

But a confluence of events, beginning with the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and the president's forthright commitment to the idea of preemptive action to prevent future attacks, has set in motion a process that has led to a fundamental change in how the U.S. military might respond to certain possible threats. Understanding how we got to this point, and what it might mean for U.S. policy, is particularly important now -- with the renewed focus last week on Iran's nuclear intentions and on speculation that North Korea is ready to conduct its first test of a nuclear weapon.

Global strike has become one of the core missions for the Omaha-based Strategic Command, or Stratcom. Once, Stratcom oversaw only the nation's nuclear forces; now it has responsibility for overseeing a global strike plan with both conventional and nuclear options. President Bush spelled out the definition of "full-spectrum" global strike in a January 2003 classified directive, describing it as "a capability to deliver rapid, extended range, precision kinetic (nuclear and conventional) and non-kinetic (elements of space and information operations) effects in support of theater and national objectives."

This blurring of the nuclear/conventional line, wittingly or unwittingly, could heighten the risk that the nuclear option will be used. Exhibit A may be the Stratcom contingency plan for dealing with "imminent" threats from countries such as North Korea or Iran, formally known as CONPLAN 8022-02.

CONPLAN 8022 is different from other war plans in that it posits a small-scale operation and no "boots on the ground." The typical war plan encompasses an amalgam of forces -- air, ground, sea -- and takes into account the logistics and political dimensions needed to sustain those forces in protracted operations. All these elements generally require significant lead time to be effective. (Existing Pentagon war plans, developed for specific regions or "theaters," are essentially defensive responses to invasions or attacks. The global strike plan is offensive, triggered by the perception of an imminent threat and carried out by presidential order.)

CONPLAN 8022 anticipates two different scenarios. The first is a response to a specific and imminent nuclear threat, say in North Korea. A quick-reaction, highly choreographed strike would combine pinpoint bombing with electronic warfare and cyberattacks to disable a North Korean response, with commandos operating deep in enemy territory, perhaps even to take possession of the nuclear device.

The second scenario involves a more generic attack on an adversary's WMD infrastructure. Assume, for argument's sake, that Iran announces it is mounting a crash program to build a nuclear weapon. A multidimensional bombing (kinetic) and cyberwarfare (non-kinetic) attack might seek to destroy Iran's program, and special forces would be deployed to disable or isolate underground facilities.

By employing all of the tricks in the U.S. arsenal to immobilize an enemy country -- turning off the electricity, jamming and spoofing radars and communications, penetrating computer networks and garbling electronic commands -- global strike magnifies the impact of bombing by eliminating the need to physically destroy targets that have been disabled by other means.

The inclusion, therefore, of a nuclear weapons option in CONPLAN 8022 -- a specially configured earth-penetrating bomb to destroy deeply buried facilities, if any exist -- is particularly disconcerting. The global strike plan holds the nuclear option in reserve if intelligence suggests an "imminent" launch of an enemy nuclear strike on the United States or if there is a need to destroy hard-to-reach targets.

It is difficult to imagine a U.S. president ordering a nuclear attack on Iran or North Korea under any circumstance. Yet as global strike contingency planning has moved forward, so has the nuclear option.

Global strike finds its origins in pre-Bush administration Air Force thinking about a way to harness American precision and stealth to "kick down the door" of defended territory, making it easier for (perhaps even avoiding the need for) follow-on ground operations.

The events of 9/11 shifted the focus of planning. There was no war plan for Afghanistan on the shelf, not even a generic one. In Afghanistan, the synergy of conventional bombing and special operations surprised everyone. But most important, weapons of mass destruction became the American government focus. It is not surprising, then, that barely three months after that earth-shattering event, the Pentagon's quadrennial Nuclear Posture Review assigned the military and Stratcom the task of providing greater flexibility in nuclear attack options against Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya, Syria and China.

The Air Force's global strike concept was taken over by Stratcom and made into something new. This was partly in response to the realization that the military had no plans for certain situations. The possibility that some nations would acquire the ability to attack the United States directly with a WMD, for example, had clearly fallen between the command structure's cracks. For example, the Pacific Command in Hawaii had loads of war plans on its shelf to respond to a North Korean attack on South Korea, including some with nuclear options. But if North Korea attacked the United States directly -- or, more to the point, if the U.S. intelligence network detected evidence of preparations for such an attack, Pacific Command didn't have a war plan in place.

In May 2002, Rumsfeld issued an updated Defense Planning Guidance that directed the military to develop an ability to undertake "unwarned strikes . . . [to] swiftly defeat from a position of forward deterrence." The post-9/11 National Security Strategy, published in September 2002, codified preemption, stating that the United States must be prepared to stop rogue states and their terrorist clients before they are able to threaten or use weapons of mass destruction against the United States and our allies."

"We cannot let our enemies strike first," President Bush declared in the National Security Strategy document..... (continued)

halva

01-22-2006, 07:43 PM

On the subject of chemtrails again, there is news that the relevant discussion is intensifying in German-speaking countries again with the publication of two articles by Ulli (as in Ulrich) Kulke
in Die Welt (circulation around one million).

This is mainstream liberal, rather cynical, journalism, but it doesn't simply dismiss what the 'conspiracy theorists' are saying.

http://www.welt.de/data/2005/10/26/793997.html?s=1
the second part is at:
http://www.welt.de/data/2005/10/26/793997.html?s=2

A similar article by Kulke was apparently published the same day in the "Berliner Morgenpost".

Also on all TV is the "great fine particulate controversy" in Germany and Switzerland. It was first propagated by DER SPIEGEL last summer that the air is "currently" overloaded by finest particulate matter being emitted by cars and industry. Beginning last week, environmental authorities have started to warn of the grave dangers of this scientifically still largely undefined PM; including massive clogging of lungs and warnings of...who would have guessed...ALZHEIMER's.

The statistics shown NEVER reference air traffic or air pollution at all.

halva

01-25-2006, 09:12 PM

From a British correspondent:

We are living under this stuff 4-5 days a week, and this stuff is making my family ill.

Yesterday I was recording in London, at 11AM from Rugby to London, the clear blue cloudless skies were covered in huge grids and haze, all from planes, blocking out the sun. I saw this on the train to London, this link shows you what I saw.

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/subsets/?AERONET_Lille/2006024/AERONET_Lille.2006024.terra.250m.jpg

halva

02-03-2006, 09:40 PM

Whose plan, whose planes, whose planet?
http://www.airapparent.ca/activities.htm

jayreynolds

02-04-2006, 07:42 AM

Whose plan, whose planes, whose planet?
http://www.airapparent.ca/activities.htm

Ha, more contrail pictures?
Whose got the beef, who cut the cheese, and who's responsible for this hoax?

halva

02-08-2006, 09:10 PM

WHOSE PLAN? WHOSE PLANES? WHOSE PLANET?

Toronto’s Air Apparent is part of a province-wide network of citizens concerned about unusual and unsettling activity in our skies. U.S. Air Force jets have been observed and documented as they release different effluents over our heads. Because the trails sometimes look like contrails (condensation trails) Air Apparent members have reviewed 270 contrail research papers from 35 scientific journals, published between 1970 and 2005. This scientific literature reveals the many differences between persisting and spreading CONTRAILS and the mystery effluent commonly called CHEMTRAILS.

We have discovered that the atmospheric conditions that produce persisting and spreading contrails are infrequent and dependent upon very narrow ranges of temperature, humidity, and baroclinic conditions. The atmosphere should be in the –40 to –50 degree Celsius range and must be super-saturated for ice, for example. These two conditions occur only infrequently at the cruising altitude of commercial jets. Hence, the occurrence of persisting contrails is unusual, as is testified to in the body of research.

The effluent trails, chemtrails, being researched by Toronto’s Air Apparent, are being released over Toronto, and elsewhere, sometimes for days and days on end. Early in the morning the skies begin filling with bright white four-engine refuelling tankers or giant four-engine long-nose jets that have no match on the internet. Sometimes there are two lines (contrails are nowhere described in the literature as having two lines) that look like toothpaste and break into chromosome shapes. Sometimes the trail is a single thin line that expands into a milky, oily haze over the course of 6 to 10 hours. During the summer of 2004 the sunny skies of Toronto were overwhelmed by this type of expanding trail. Most citizens mistake the effluent for cloud. Sometimes two types are mixed and different shapes of ‘zippers’ are formed across the sky. Certainly, it is a most interesting time to be a skywatcher.

Thousands of Canadians, beginning with citizens and town councillors in Espanola, Ontario, have sought explanations for their defiled skies, in letters and petitions to parliament. The unhelpful replies from government representatives appear pre-planned, inflexible, and evasive. CBC’s Newsworld and The Hour, CITY TV, Toronto Environmental Alliance, and the Department of National Defence all seem committed to being unresponsive to citizen requests for help in identifying the jets or the effluents. Toronto’s Air Apparent thinks this situation follows the fable of The Emperor Who Had No Clothes. When a critical mass of observant citizens becomes aware of what is going on overhead, the paradigm will shift. At that critical mass point, the reporters will cover the story. The shattering of the illusion may disturb many people at first. It is hard to understand how one might not see something in plain sight. But let’s just look at it this way: uncovering chemtrails brings an opportunity to remember we are part of a community – as friends and family and neighbours we are the foundation of the world’s created reality.

jayreynolds

02-09-2006, 06:34 AM

Because the trails sometimes look like contrails (condensation trails) Air Apparent members have reviewed 270 contrail research papers from 35 scientific journals, published between 1970 and 2005. This scientific literature reveals the many differences between persisting and spreading CONTRAILS and the mystery effluent commonly called CHEMTRAILS.

We have discovered that the atmospheric conditions that produce persisting and spreading contrails are infrequent and dependent upon very narrow ranges of temperature, humidity, and baroclinic conditions. The atmosphere should be in the –40 to –50 degree Celsius range and must be super-saturated for ice, for example. These two conditions occur only infrequently at the cruising altitude of commercial jets. Hence, the occurrence of persisting contrails is unusual, as is testified to in the body of research.

Wayne Hall, your propaganda is so idiotically simplistic that it betrays a blatant disregard for factual accuracy. It's no wonder you people get no notice from real scientists when you choose to print such misinformation. Below is linkage to relevant scientific publications which tell the truth about your people's lies:

1. Introduction

In the recent years it has become quite evident that cloud free air in the upper troposphere is often in a thermodynamic state of supersaturation with respect to ice. Such regions have been termed "ice-supersaturated regions" (ISSRs, Gierens et al., 1999).

The existence of cloud free air masses in the state of supersaturation with respect to ice was proven almost 60 years ago. E. Glückauf (1945) found from hygrometer data obtained over southern England that (very high) supersaturation with respect to ice occurs very frequently in the upper troposphere. H.Weickmann concluded in his 1945 review paper on "Shapes and formation of atmospheric ice crystals" (Weickmann 1945) that ice crystals in the atmosphere, i.e. cirrus clouds, form mainly via the water phase and not as soon as ice saturation is reached. He characterized the ice forming regions in the upper troposphere and the (lowermost) stratosphere as regions of high ice-supersaturation but with small absolute humidity. The insights of Glückauf and Weickmann were obviously deemed unimportant for numerical weather prediction and climate studies; after 50 years there is still no single weather prediction model (to the author's knowledge) that would allow ice-supersaturation to occur. The single exception we are aware of is one version of ECHAM (Kärcher and Lohmann 2002; Lohmann and Kärcher 2002).

Cloud free ice-supersaturated air masses have been detected by various types of hygrometers during several airborne measurements campaigns like POLINAT (Ovarlez et al. 2000), SUCCESS (Jensen et al. 1998) or SONEX (Vay et al. 2000) and in the Measurement of ozone by Airbus in service aircraft (MOZAIC) project (Marenco et al. 1998). It is now even possible to use carefully calibrated and corrected RS80A radiosondes (Nagel et al. 2001) to detect ice supersaturation (Spichtinger et al. 2003).

The realisation that there is often substantial ice supersaturation in the upper troposphere is also in accordance with recent results from laboratory work on homogeneous freezing nucleation of aqueous solution droplets (currently believed to be the dominant cirrus formation mechanism below -40°C). Koop et al. (2000) were able to show that the freezing of aqueous solution droplets in the cold upper troposphere needs substantial supersaturation of generally more than 40% (in order to make the solutions sufficiently thin). The mere existence of cirrus clouds therefore implies that there must be a lot of supersaturation in the upper troposphere.

A good marker of ISSRs is persistent condensation trails (contrails) when the sky is otherwise free of clouds. Since the mixing process in an aircraft exhaust plume can create very high degrees of supersaturation even in dry ambient air, the formation of contrails does not require as high ambient humidity as the formation of natural cirrus. Contrails can therefore decorate the sky when no cirrus clouds are around. Contrail persistence however requires at least ice saturation. A sky full of contrails but without cirrus therefore shows that there must be an ISSR."
http://www.pa.op.dlr.de/issr/Cha1.html

Further supportive literature:
http://www.pa.op.dlr.de/issr/Literature.html

So, Wayne, will you do the honest thing and let your people at "Air Apparent" know how they've goofed up to an extent which sacrifices their credibility?

Or will you persist in allowing the misinformation to continue, as you have in your own propaganda?
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=453548&postcount=177

halva

02-09-2006, 10:47 AM

PETITION TO THE HOUSE OF COMMONS IN PARLIAMENT ASSEMBLED

WE, the undersigned residents of Canada draw the attention of the House to the following:

THAT high altitude aerial spraying has been observed occurring over Canada; from British Columbia to Newfoundland; for at least the last two years;

THAT this aerial spraying has been carried out by large military type jet aircraft that create white plumes which evidence suggests are chemical-laden (hereinafter "chemtrails") and often seen in the form of large "X's", "O's" and checkerboard patterns;

THAT this aerial spraying has been carried out without the knowledge or consent of the Canadian electorate;

THAT chemtrails in the atmosphere across Canada can only adversely affect the health of our population, especially children;

THAT Canadians have the inalienable right not to be sprayed with massive amounts of chemicals from the sky for whatever purpose;

THAT many concerned citizens have already attempted to obtain explanations of this aerial chemtrail spraying activity from their elected representatives and from various government departments but with no success.

THEREFORE, your petitioners call upon Parliament to take the following actions:

(1) to immediately order the cessation of all high altitude aerial spraying in Canadian air space;

(2) to immediately disclose the purpose of the aerial spraying that has been occurring in Canadian air space;

(3) to immediately disclose to the Canadian public the chemical composition of the materials that have been sprayed in Canadian air space in order that affected individuals may take whatever remedial health actions are advised;

(4) to immediately disclose to the Canadian public when the program of aerial spraying began, the amount of chemicals sprayed over Canada to date, the locations of the spraying, and the number, type and ownership of the airplanes which have been carrying out the spraying.

jayreynolds

02-09-2006, 11:53 AM

PETITION TO THE HOUSE OF COMMONS IN PARLIAMENT ASSEMBLED
THAT Canadians have the inalienable right not to be sprayed with massive amounts of chemicals from the sky for whatever purpose;

THAT many concerned citizens have already attempted to obtain explanations of this aerial chemtrail spraying activity from their elected representatives and from various government departments but with no success.

Wayne, I find no such "inalienable" rights enumerated in the Canadian Constitution:
http://www.solon.org/Constitutions/Canada/English/ca_1982.html
In fact, to my knowledge, no founding documents of Canada mention inalienable rights at all, and certainly not their constitution, which has a well-crafted 'escape clause', to wit:
"The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."

Furthermore, Wayne, your people in Canda need to do some research and find out that the word "inalienable" is not the same as the word "unalienable" as your author evidently borrowed from the US Declaration of Independence. I find it amusing when a people who accepted such an inferior statement of rights as their own Charter would have the temerity to expect their representatives to give them what they never voted for themselves!

Lastly, there is no truth whatsoever that your people had "no success" when making inquiries from the Government of Canada. This website linked to at the "Air Apparent" site displays the responses it falsely claims have not been forthcoming!
http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/correspondence.html

Wayne, why don't your people just stay honest?
Making these sorts of wild lies does your cause no good at all![/b]

halva

02-09-2006, 12:13 PM

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/spring-05.html

Spring 2005 - Topic #3: Was it in 1997 that Will Thomas is credited with coining the term "chemtrails"? Well, not to take the wind out of his sails, but it appears that the folks at the United States Air Force Academy beat him to it by quite a few years.

There were courses, starting in Spring 1990, presented by the USAFA Department of Chemistry, with the intriguing title of "Chemtrails".

It appears that this course was related solely to the chemistry of traditional condensation trails and that this use of Chemtrails was simply a "catchy" coined term used in the title of the courses - so don't take this too seriously!

But it also appears that there was a book published - or one of the courses was presented in book form. The book is titled, you guessed: "Chemtrails" and is ISBN: 0840378246 by USAF Staff and published by: Kendall/Hunt Publishing Company, May 1992. It is a paperback of 224 pages.

Some have questioned how the word "chemtrails" came to appear in the Bill by Congressman Kucinich, D-Ohio - HR 2977, the Space Preservation Act of 2001. As you see above, it appears that in certain circles in the United States Air Force, it was a term well known before that time.

jayreynolds

02-10-2006, 05:20 AM

halva

02-11-2006, 02:46 AM

There was a public meeting last night in Athens, Greece, attended by over one hundred people with discussion of the chemtrails phenomenon and video coverage of chemtrails over Athens filmed last December.

halva

03-06-2006, 09:15 PM

Rosalind Peterson on the Weather Modification Bill:

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/rosalind.html

halva

03-08-2006, 09:29 PM

In his heyday Raynolds was in the habit of urging "chemmies" to knock on the door of various gatherings of atmospheric scientists in order to draw their attention to "the chemtrails hoax".

In a similar spirit I could urge him to go along to the Caffe Pergolesi in Santa Cruz this Saturday and enlighten them. After all, airline tickets are so cheap nowadays and Americans are great travellers.

Of course I am not going to do any such thing. It would be a form of encouragement for him to continue posting at this forum.

Call to Action!
Come one - Come all!!

You are invited to attend a meeting involving discussion and action planning.

The meeting will take place Saturday, March 11, 2006. at 11AM at Caffe Pergolesi, 418 Cedar St, Santa Cruz CA (831) 426-1775. Please bring a dollar or two to spend at Caffe Pergolesi while we have our meeting. If it is not raining, we will be sitting outside. If it is raining, we will be inside. At either location there will be a sign on our table that says "Senate Bill 517".

We will be talking about what we can do locally to stop the passage of Senate Bill 517 and we'll be organizing to have a presence at the anti-weather modification rally in Los Angeles on March 23, 2006. We will have flyers, videos and other information available. Please attend and bring a friend!

Updates:
Senate bill 517 is scheduled to be voted on by the US Senate this congressional session. (Have you called a your senator today?)

There will be a Rally in Los Angeles on March 23 to show opposition to Senate Bill 517. The rally will be held at Barbara Boxer’s Los Angeles office.

Some suggested reading:
Agricultural Alert by Rosalind Peterson

For the latest updates on chemtrails and weather modification, please visit: www.chemtrails911.com

Look Up! Wake Up! Speak Out!

jayreynolds

03-09-2006, 03:26 AM

A transcontinental trip to watch a dozen chemmies drink coffee?
ha!

Take some pictures, Rosalind.
You'll be lucky to get a dozen people at your meeting, but if the cafe is busy enough, you could probably make it seem that the other customers are chemmies, too.

Seriously, Wayne, this Rosalind sounds like the sort of woman you need, no brains but she's able to get a dozen nutcases all fired up together at a moment's notice.

http://www.theperg.com/

BTW, you won't get far in Santa Cruz with "a dollar or two".
Looks like you can get a cup of coffee.
http://www.theperg.com/menu.shtml
Have fun, Wayne.

halva

03-09-2006, 09:33 PM

halva

03-10-2006, 02:56 AM

Given that Arianna's is closing, anyone who wants to send me an e-mail about continuing discussions at our closed forum, please do so. This invitation is not extended to chemtrail or climate change debunkers.

jayreynolds

03-10-2006, 03:18 AM

Actually I think more to the point than calling for a ban on weather modification at this point would be to start a public debate among interested parties: "Weather Modification - Prohibition or Legalization?"

For a start it provides a better tool for pinning pin down participants in the climate change debate.
Here in the US, Wayne, weather modification is already regulated by state agencies, so there is no point in discussing "legalization".
For example, in Oklahoma-
http://www.owrb.state.ok.us/hazard/weather/wx_mod.php

halva

03-10-2006, 08:52 AM

Whatever you are saying, Raynolds, the shutter falls on 20th March, it seems.

Boomer Chick

03-19-2006, 11:09 AM

Over on the Climate Change thread I linked to this site and file regarding the newest weather related satellites and their projects.

http://cloudsat.atmos.colostate.edu/CloudSat_overview.pdf

At this point, it should be accepted knowledge that the aims of most of the studies contain the ultimate goal of WEATHER MANIPULATION. No doubt!

Here is a portion of text taken from the above file on CALIPSO and other related satellites and technologies. The effort is multi-national as well, if you'll read the pages. This is only ONE of the goals. Reading the list is quite enlightening but I found this particular goal of interest.

Interaction of Clouds and Aerosols: Subtle aspects of the relationship between airparcel cooling rates and cloud microphysical properties and precipitation are influenced by the characteristics of the background aerosols that clouds form on, but the aerosols are also affected by cloud and precipitation processes. Understanding how this tightly linked set of interactions can be altered by human-induced changes in aerosols is one of the most uncertain aspects of the climate change problem.

The CloudSat and CALIPSO combination, especially when augmented by other instruments in the A-Train, provides a much more detailed look at this problem.

Key to separating out the several possible effects on clouds is vertical profile information to discriminate the aerosols at or just below cloud base and the properties of clouds near cloud base.

Thus, one goal of CloudSat/CALIPSO data analysis is to characterize the variations of cloud/precipitation properties with variations of aerosol characteristics.

The use of the term, "aerosol" does not mean an additive man-made substance to the environment. It means the natural and manmade present particulates, gases, and water formations. On the other hand, it doesn't exclude additives either. But it is not referenced anywhere in any way shape or form, that anything is added to the atmosphere for any of the projects. NONE.

halva

03-19-2006, 02:49 PM

The Latest Greatest News from Toronto’s Air Apparent!
Spring Equinox 2006

Much Good News, many hopeful things abound in the world of atmospheric awareness raising.

Our Photoshow, Whose Plan? Whose Planes? Whose Planet? Was a fine success in all respects…well, ok,…we could have a worked a little harder to sell more prints - it is a fundraising tool as well as an awareness raising tool – BUT – in all other respects it was well worth all the effort. Many, many people saw and discussed the show and the issues it raises. Good relations with all the restaurant workers was an added bonus.

On the final day of the photoshow , three of us met for two and a half hours with a feature writer from the Toronto Star. Our credibility was not an issue, he took copious notes, we’ve alerted him to sprayings and discussed them somewhat since. It will be fine if he takes lots of time to observe the skies before he sets out his article. Naturally, he asked about the reduction in the amount of spraying going on over Toronto. We said we hoped that our efforts were a factor but we don’t know what the patterns have been elsewhere. The writer, nameless for now, understood our point about being well positioned regardless of what happens next: because the authorities have claimed that frequent sky-filling is NORMAL, they now have anew normal to sustain. If they do not sustain it it shows it was never normal. If they do sustain it we will have more and more people looking up and developing a determination to find out what it is they’re seeing between themselves and the sun, developing ever greater pressure on authorities etc. Either way is ok by us, - either way spraying will be reduced over time.

Elizabeth May, the Executive Director of The Sierra Club of Canada was not tooo hard to get on the phone. Once talking, she was friendly and clear. She agreed to meet in person in the near future. At that meeting we will ask for Sierra Club’s help in designing an experimental protocol to compare the science of contrails against the observations of cts, based on the scientific contrail literature we gathered from 35 journals over a 25 year span. Elizabeth May knows that we think we have the science they need in order to join forces. Very exciting!

We encourage everyone to send a supportive e-note to Rosalind Peterson and crew in California info@californiaskywatch.com as they rally in public on March 23 to raise awareness of a Weather Modification Act that is being rushed through south of the border. http://educate-yourself.org/cn/protestatboxerlosangeles25feb06.shtml

halva

03-21-2006, 06:57 PM

Some interesting contact with Friends of the Earth, Scotland, on the subject of of chemtrails/geoengineering.

What a shame for BC that when the ecological movement finally comes to change its position on these matters she will have acquired such a reputation as Reynolds' on-line moll that she won't be able to participate even off-line.

halva

03-21-2006, 07:02 PM

More and more it seems that Reynolds' objective function has been to smash the "chemtrail activist" component of his own shitty political milieu, leaving the field clear ultimately for people with better politics to take up the question.

halva

03-22-2006, 12:44 PM

Support our friends in LOS ANGELES
protesting U.S. SENATE BILL 517
"To establish the Weather Modification Operations and Research Board,
and for other purposes."

March 22 - 23, 2006!
National Call in Days

CALL, FAX, EMAIL

Take action today and tomorrow and be a part of the National Call-in Days against Weather Modification Bill s517!!

The following Senators below are targeted by supporter of S517 so it is most
important to call these Senators and state your opposition
as well as your State Senators!

Here are some things you can sign and mail today:

Petition against S517

Post cards against S517

Below are some talking points and a list of key Senators to contact.

You also might find this letter helpful where Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, gets her hand slapped over Senate Bill 517, by -Dr. John H. Marburger, III, Science Adviser to the President and Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy, December 13, 2005

Just to give you some talking ideas:

"I am calling today to voice my opposition to Senate Bill 517. After reading the entire bill, I see that there are many flaws. However, I would like to call your attention to these big areas of concern:

1- It has no independent agricultural oversight.

2- It has no independent water resource oversight.

3- It has no independent human health and wildlife oversight.

4- Local Political & Legal Ramifications; inter-state (including Indian Tribes) litigation or private citizen litigation against the modification programs

5- International and Foreign Policy Violations and possible litigations against The United States.

6- And during these troubling times, one of the biggest areas of concern is that it violates the United Nation’s Treaty number 17119, which was adopted in 1976. Senate Bill 517 jeopardizes our national security.

For all these reasons and more, this bill cannot be passed or supported.
Thank you, for your time."

The following Senators are targeted by supporter of S517 so it is most important to call these Senators as well as your State Senator!

California

Senator Barbara Boxer - 202-224-3553 Senator Dianne Feinstein - 202-224-3841

Colorado

Senator Wayne Allard - 202-224-5941 Senator Ken Salazar - 202-224-5852

Idaho

Senator Larry Craig - 202-224-2752 Senator Mike Crap - 202-224-6142

Kansas

Senator Sam Brownback - 202-224-6521 Senator Pat Roberts - 202-224-4774

Nevada

Senator Harry Reid - 202-224-3542 Senator John Ensign - 202-224-6244

North Dakota

Senator Kent Conrad - 202-224-2043 Senator Byron Dorgan - 202-224-2551

Wyoming

Senator Michael Enzi - 202-224-3424 Senator Craig Thomas - 202-224-6441

Also contact television newsrooms, national magazines, and newspaper editors to ask them to investigate this issue and to cover this event because it is vital we protect our agricultural crops, water supplies, our health, our animals and live stock, our environment and our nation's security from unregulated illegal experimental weather modification programs.

Thanks!

www.chemtrails911.com

Look Up! Wake Up! Speak Out!

halva

03-23-2006, 01:51 AM

Here is some more input:

"By the 1980s the problem of global warming loomed so large that industry, and even some scientists, began casting about for engineering solutions. Here we are talking about true planetary engineering - changing the carbon balance on planet Earth in ways that will affect every living organism - and yet these engineering works were being proposed and tested in the absence of any global body to regulate and approve such activities.

For this reason, and because of an inherent distrust of such solutions, the response of most environmental groups to these initiatives has been lukewarm at best. Yet all would agree that we are facing a dire crisis that may require heroic actions to overcome."

The Weather Makers ( http://www.theweathermakers.com), Tim Flannery (Chapter 27)

halva

03-24-2006, 09:44 PM

More from "The Weather Makers":

"Air travel requires large amounts of high-density fuel of a type that at present only fossil fuels provide. It is also increasing in volume every year. In 1992 air travel was the source of two percent of carbon dioxide emissions. And in the US, where air traffic already accounts for 10 percent of fuel use, the number of passengers transported is expected to double between 1997 and 2017, making air transport the fastest-growing source of carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide emissions in the country. Across the Atlantic, by 2030, a quarter of the UK's emissions may come from air travel.

The cocktail of chemicals that comprise aircraft emissions work in somewhat opposite ways. Because most modern jets cruise near the troposphere, the water vapour, nitrous oxide and sulphur dioxides they emit have particular impacts. The nitrous oxide emitted by aircraft may enhance ozone in the troposphere and lower stratosphere, yet deplete it further in the upper stratosphere; sulphur dioxide will have a cooling effect.

What is emerging as a most important emission is water vapour, which can be observed as aircraft contrails. Under certain conditions contrails give rise to cirrus clouds. These clouds cover around 30 percent of the planet, and while the extent that aircraft contribute to cirrus cloud cover is uncertain, it could be as much as 1 percent which, because it is concentrated in the Northern Hemisphere mid-latitudes, may have a significant impact on climate. If aircraft were to fly lower, cirrus cloud formation could be cut in half and carbon dioxide emissions lowered by four percent, while average flight times in Europe would vary by less than a minute.

As mentioned earlier, the potential of these clouds to affect climate was demonstrated in 2001 between September 11 and 14, when the US air fleet was grounded. Average daytime temperatures rose abruptly by one degree Celsius, in such a manner as could not be explained by other factors. This suggests that contrails may be masking the impacts of warming caused by carbon dioxide. Perhaps we will need to main them while we reduce our carbon intensity. Equally, there seems to be no way at present to get aircraft to run on a less damaging substitute or fossil fuel. Without a return to the more leisurely days of travel by zeppelin, air travel will remain a source of carbon dioxide emissions long after other sectors have transformed to a carbon-free economy.

Transport accounts for around a third of global carbon dioxide emissions. Transportation by land and sea can easily be powered in ways that emit less carbon dioxde, and the technologies to achieve this either already exist or are on the horizon. Air transport, however, is fast growing and not likely to be fuelled by anything but fossil fuels. Thankfully, jet contrails contribute to global dimming, so it may be just as well that the jets keep flying long after wind-powered and solar-powered ships and compressed-air cars monopolise surface transport." (from Chapter 31)

jayreynolds

03-26-2006, 05:24 AM

The meeting will take place Saturday, March 11, 2006. at 11AM at Caffe Pergolesi, 418 Cedar St, Santa Cruz CA (831) 426-1775. Please bring a dollar or two to spend at Caffe Pergolesi while we have our meeting. If it is not raining, we will be sitting outside. If it is raining, we will be inside. At either location there will be a sign on our table that says "Senate Bill 517".

We will be talking about what we can do locally to stop the passage of Senate Bill 517 and we'll be organizing to have a presence at the anti-weather modification rally in Los Angeles on March 23, 2006. We will have flyers, videos and other information available. Please attend and bring a friend!
There will be a Rally in Los Angeles on March 23 to show opposition to Senate Bill 517. The rally will be held at Barbara Boxer’s Los Angeles office.

Hey, Wayne, did anybody show up at either of these two mob actions?
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread10541.html

I think not, otherwise you'd be bragging.................

halva

04-03-2006, 12:29 AM

http://www.airapparent.ca/library/full_text/peterson_mar23protest_article.htm

jayreynolds

04-03-2006, 03:18 AM

whitemajikman

04-03-2006, 04:19 PM

Sounds like the numbers that attended were dismal, Wayne.
So these people can take thousands of contrail pictures but none of their successful rally?
As puny as it was, in the old days, chemmies had the guts to post their pitiful turnout:
http://users.ev1.net/~seektress/protest2.htm

Your Logic Doesn't hold up To well either Jay......

There Are Literally a Million Physicist's in the world But Only A Few Hundred Attend A Phycis Convention At Any one Time .....

You Both Lose A Point

LOL

WMM

jayreynolds

04-03-2006, 05:39 PM

Your Logic Doesn't hold up To well either Jay......
There Are Literally a Million Physicist's in the world But Only A Few Hundred Attend A Phycis Convention At Any one Time .....
I'm told there are millions of chemmies. California, the land of fruits and nuts where the protest was held, is home to at least hundreds of chemmies, but I doubt if more than a dozen showed up. The biggest problem these latecomers have is that debunking has brought the movement to it's knees. The hoax is drowning in it's own waste matter. This thing has already gone through it's boom and spat out most of those with brains. What is left are the dregs from the bottom, the multiple identity freakshows and the noobs who haven't a clue................ yet.

halva

04-04-2006, 06:39 PM

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/ros-rally.pdf

and

http://majormediabypass.com/

jayreynolds

04-04-2006, 07:29 PM

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/ros-rally.pdf

and

http://majormediabypass.com/
Still trying to 'spin' a dozen kooks into a mass movement, eh, Wayne?
Why no pictures? It's not like chemies don't have cameras.........

Your second link by "Dr." Ken has a picture of some ice crystals which is captioned:
"Since when do icicles form horizontally?"
When it's not "icicles", it's hoar frost:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoarfrost

I really can't understand the lack of common knowledge chemmies display.
You people are almost like children. I suppose children might be easy to trick into believeing chemtrails.

halva

04-06-2006, 05:25 AM

For the files:
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=40091&page=1&pp=10

jayreynolds

04-06-2006, 06:49 AM

http://www.debatebothsides.com/archive/index.php/t-40091.html

halva

04-06-2006, 06:52 AM

PROTECT AGRICULTURE!
STOP
EXPERIMENTAL WEATHER MODIFICATION
WITHOUT AGRICULTURE & PUBLIC OVERSIGHT

JOIN THE PHOENIX ARIZONA EDUCATIONAL FORUM & PROTEST AGAINST
U.S. SENATE BILL 517 & U.S. HOUSE BILL 2995
“Weather Modification” Bills

SATURDAY, APRIL 29, 2006
11:00 A.M. – 4:00 P.M.

Location: Capitol Lawn
1700 West Washington Street
Phoenix Arizona 85007
Speakers / Music / Documents

For More Information Please Contact:
Bridget Conroy
Agriculture Defense Coalition
P.O. Box 54297
Phoenix Arizona 85078
(602) 404-0847 E-Mail: bcolemanconroy8@yahoo.com

Rosalind Peterson
Agriculture Defense Coalition
P.O. Box 499
Redwood Valley, California 95470
(707) 485-7520 E-Mail: info@californiaskywatch.com

halva

04-06-2006, 06:56 AM

AGRICULTURE ALERT - 2006

EXPERIMENTAL WEATHER MODIFICATION BILL FAST TRACKING FOR PASSAGE IN U.S. SENATE & HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
By Rosalind Peterson

U.S. Senate Bill 517 and U.S. House Bill 2995, a bill that would allow experimental weather modification by artificial methods and implement a national weather modification policy, does not include agriculture or public oversight, is on the “fast track” to be passed early in 2006.

This bill is designed to implement experimental weather modification. The appointed Board of Directors established by this bill does not include any agricultural, water, EPA, or public representatives, and has no provisions for Congressional, State, County, or public oversight of their actions or expenditures.

Weather Modification may adversely impact agricultural crops and water supplies. If the weather is changed in one state, region or county it may have severe consequences in another region, state or county. And who is going to decide the type of weather modification experimentation and who it will benefit or adversely impact?

This experimental weather modification bill will impact residents across the United States not just in California. Many current and ongoing weather modification programs (47 listed by NOAA in 2005), including the one in Wyoming that is designed to increase the snowpack, may be diverting rainwater away from Oklahoma and Texas, two states that are currently fighting fires caused by a lack of rainfall. We have no idea what the unintended consequences of the Wyoming action or other experimental weather modification programs might be now or in the future.

In addition to the experimental weather modification programs listed by NOAA, there are both private and ongoing government sponsored atmospheric testing and heating programs underway in Alaska and across the United States. Alaska Senator Stevens recently received $50 million in funding for Alaska’s atmospheric heating program.

All of these unregulated, private, government, and public weather modification programs, may also have unintended synergistic effects. Senate Bill 517 does not address these issues but intends to implement more experimental weather modification programs without a national debate or public oversight.

Artificial weather modification can impact all of us by reducing water supplies, changing agricultural crop production cycles, reducing crop production, and water availability. Since most experimental weather modification programs use chemicals released into the atmosphere the public could be subjected increasingly toxic or unknown substances that could adversely impact agricultural crops and trees.

Trimethyl Aluminum (TMA) and barium are just two of the toxic chemicals used in recent atmospheric heating and testing programs according to NASA. The Alaska H.A.A.R.P. atmospheric heating program may have the capability of changing the Jet Stream which could also change our weather.

Many private weather modification companies admit that precipitation effects may be positive or negative. Fog dispersal programs, using dry ice, liquid nitrogen, liquid propane or silver iodide may improve visibility while adversely impacting Redwood Trees along the California coast by depriving them of needed water they derive from the fog.
The increasing use of varied chemicals like aluminum (coupled with increasing air pollution), can severely impact tree health by depriving trees of water and nutrients normally absorbed through their root systems. The December 2005 Popular Science Magazine discussed a plan to use an oil slick to stop hurricanes without noting the adverse environmental impacts of the oil used to cover the ocean.

Popular Science also noted that a private company, Dyn-O-Mat, plans to purchase jets to drop thousands of pounds of a water absorbing chemical powder (unknown substance), into hurricanes to absorb moisture that may dissipate hurricanes. There is no agriculture oversight or public hearings to determine the consequences of this and other actions or to monitor or prevent adverse impacts of this chemical once it falls on the surface of the ocean or on land.

Alaska and other areas across the United States are beginning to feel the impacts of climate change. Enormous changes are being seen in the declining health of native plant and tree communities in many areas across the United States.

NASA noted in an October 2005 newsletter that increasingly persistent contrails are “…trapping warmth in the atmosphere and exacerbating global warming…” NASA goes on to note that: “…Any increase in global cloud cover will contribute to long-term changes in Earth’s climate. Likewise, any change in Earth’s climate may have effects on natural resources…”

Global dimming and the persistent contrails, that produce man-made clouds, may have serious impacts on crop production. A recent corn crop study in Illinois shows that cloud cover reduces corn crop production while direct sunlight increases production. In addition, increasing man-made clouds may reduce the effectiveness of solar panels.

Senate Bill 517 does not address any of these important issues. Its sole purpose is to establish an experimental weather modification policy without any agriculture or public oversight of private, military, and government programs. Without oversight or public hearings agriculture, our natural resources, and watersheds may be negatively impacted. And who will be responsible to determine the synergistic effects of these programs or pay for unintended disasters created by this experimentation. If these programs change growing seasons and interrupt the pollination process crop losses could be substantial exacerbating economic losses.

Please take action today and contact all of your elected local, state and federal officials to stop this bill in its present form. This bill needs to have appropriate agriculture and public oversight, with public hearings included, prior to any more experimental projects. We need a national dialogue on this subject before more experimentation takes place.

In 1995, Rosalind Peterson became a certified U.S.D.A. Farm Service Agency Crop Loss Adjustor working in more than ten counties throughout California. Many crop losses throughout the State can be attributed to weather related causes.

Rosalind has a BA degree from Sonoma State University in Environmental Studies & Planning (ENSP), with emphasis on agriculture and crop production.

Rosalind Peterson was born and raised on a working farm in Redwood Valley, California. The weather was the foremost factor in determining whether or not our tree crops produced fruit and nuts.

Between 1989 and 1993 Rosalind worked as an Agricultural Technologist for the Mendocino County Department of Agriculture. After leaving Mendocino County she took a position with the USDA Farm Service Agency as a Program Assistant in Mendocino, Sonoma, and the Salinas County Offices.

*******
The first successful protest rally against U.S. Senate Bill 517 was held in Los Angeles, California on March 23, 2006. The Agriculture Defense Coalition is now moving their message east across the United States toward Washington, D.C.

The next educational forum and demonstration rally opposing U.S. Senate Bill 517 will be held in Phoenix, Arizona on Saturday, April 29, 2006. Concerned grassroots citizens are involved in this educational protest movement to protect agriculture from unwise experimental weather modification programs. “We, the people, simply will not accept this reckless experimenting on our weather and are fighting the passage of this bill in order to protect agricultural crop production and our water supplies.”

Recommended Book: The Dying of the Trees, by Charles Little 1995

halva

04-06-2006, 10:42 AM

Skies Without Borders.
http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/rally-anne.html

The big day has come and gone. I myself got involved upon reading about the protest on the Internet. Almost a year had gone by since arriving in Los Angeles and seeing for the first time, to my horror, the "modification" of our once blue skies. I found soul sisters in Kathy, Rosalind and Bridget, all tireless in their effort to bring attention to the Senate and House proposals making weather modification legal.

We sent out e-mails and made phone calls, we handed out flyers in parking lots and we went to the the big antiwar rally in Hollywood and handed out hundreds of flyers there. Many articles were written beforehand and the event was posted on numerous Internet sites. A few radio stations announced the event as well. I mailed Carnicom's DVD to friends and family here and in Europe. They were all eager to hear the outcome of the big day. Being such an important cause and the bills having unknown consequences for our present and our future, we thought for sure the turnout would be large.

We were wrong. Only about 200 showed up, most likely due to a clever trick by officials. Shortly before the 23rd, we were told to move the protest to City Hall due to an explanation I for one still can't understand. The event had been advertised for a long time to take place outside U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer's office, and the permit obtained specified that location.

We posted a kind soul with a sign at the corner of the old location and Kathy went there as well with her bullhorn, but they were missed by many due to heavy traffic. The building where Ms. Boxer's office is located was reported cordoned off with yellow tape and about half a dozen Homeland Security agents had taken position outside.

At our peaceful site we were treated to great songs and music, heartfelt poems and speakers who knew the subject very well. Scott Stevens from Weather Wars had a question and answer period after his speeches. To top off the entertainment a sky show was provided for us. It came as no surprise, though.

I manned a table with colorful flyers, got petitions signed and talked to a great many interesting people. To name just a few - a lady from the Cheyenne Indian Reservation in South Dakota, a family who drove from Virginia with three dogs and two cats, and a Vietnam war veteran, with his adorable three month old puppy, was taping the event for an independent TV station in Berkeley. School children came from Palm Springs fully aware of chemtrails.

No major media outlets were represented. The Los Angeles Times had been invited. Just a couple of blocks away, I imagine they had more important matters to tend to.

We could have provided some startling and unsettling facts about our weather had they attended. They more than likely are satisfied with the daily 6 o'clock weather report. Radio and TV stations here gave air time to the antiwar rally a few days before, and a few days later to the 1/2 million immigrants marching in the exact same location we had outside City Hall. Our protest received no air time here in Los Angeles.

It is up to us to take proper care of the soil, the water, the skies and the air we breathe. This is our home and it came with no warranty and no replacement parts. Someone is destroying the air we need for survival. Only we can stop it, one informed person and one protest at a time.

Anne Berg.

jayreynolds

04-06-2006, 11:07 AM

The big day has come and gone. We were wrong.
I couldn't have said it better myself.

jayreynolds

04-07-2006, 04:33 AM

We were wrong. Only about 200 showed up, most likely due to a clever trick by officials. Shortly before the 23rd, we were told to move the protest to City Hall due to an explanation I for one still can't understand. The event had been advertised for a long time to take place outside U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer's office, and the permit obtained specified that location.

We posted a kind soul with a sign at the corner of the old location and Kathy went there as well with her bullhorn, but they were missed by many due to heavy traffic. The building where Ms. Boxer's office is located was reported cordoned off with yellow tape and about half a dozen Homeland Security agents had taken position outside..
I checked the maps. This is a map of the protest location at the Senator's office, 312 North Spring St.:
http://www.carnicom.com/protest0306.htm
Here is a map showing cLos Angeles City Hall, at 200 North Spring St.:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/print.adp?mapdata=OE4WNszgW9xCIWbpA%252fANLHu%252f kyvLYLTxFwTlyzJKtE5yrFKK82vV80Ebo21MhAFGAghcPiKGj2 2uIKC180%252bQuvLwpyzsqop2sJpCBT2v%252fDQIQoos5ncL 2%252fQm670O2YoHjd4Yvm38545GGJYR%252fMst5p14snD2xy dcGJVcsQo3OCRlVmk6XbMPxWtV5X674kfQXa7WBT56OFu6%252 b2LBKotU%252bX2lo67RSwBFE1X0IMysg1479TSyZjUGOsNuVV hawj95OorH5YbEc6Rhw%252fXJ4Roly3cRtCtpMabo8%252fEC KpmSZuwYqiYZVR644WM3Dc8u6qfPOqrQN19JtARXAA36UYh7gl M3twdyOyW3Yfkqd4eslQWWlUBG%252bNSDSnuK7SDOX8EMDPPb TCbzSjRUAfvu%252b88b%252bgy%252f3sgDFBXC%252fhkfXF Fz%252bVXy5G1sgjVcWJ3jKJatysh8ym5A8LHktqPuB45ynqQ7 s1d6ioXQp4vCnQTtAtqDcS6W9EE8asi8v77nWwGDUto6n2r3FF gG2mGGdkL3yQ3I6%252bdnTeO466QnabFPzpo%252bAX2a%252 b7frJR0yz4eINn4aQ0We4sC5kVqDlNkoJe620r24HUUVm38eM% 252fk4fEdsLX6B%252fcnKmO7I2qlG0S8SYcQi%252b8E7qSER yMQp%252fnvb1FOSmr6aLyQluUgY2L0nP18PjP2JjX0%253d

Turns out the new location was only 1/2 block away.

If the excuse for poor turnout was that the protest was moved 1/2 block away, and someone with a bullhorn was at the original location directing people to the new site, I can only assume that their best excuse was that chemmies either:
- couldn't figure out the situation
or
-weren't willing to walk 1/2 block.
Which one do you think, Wayne?

jayreynolds

04-07-2006, 06:24 AM

At our peaceful site we were treated to great songs and music, heartfelt poems and speakers who knew the subject very well. Scott Stevens from Weather Wars had a question and answer period after his speeches.
We were wrong.
Anne Berg.

Oh, so they are trying to pass 'Scott Stevens' off as a reference.

I am choosing to call this a hoax because Scott Stevens is aware that photos from "Haik" were all ripped from airliners.net. He failed to perform even the slightest due-diligence to determine the source of the photo showing the tanker boom.

The refueling boom photo at weatherwars was ripped from airliners. net:
http://www.weatherwars.info/pilotsview.htm
"A delivery system of something into the 550 mph airstream... This is an attachment to the refueling boom of a KC-135 or KC-10A tanker."

It took 3 minutes to find the photo:
search military aircraft using keyword "boom"
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?&specialsearch=military&maxres=500&keywords=boom&keywrange=all&nr_of_rows=73&first_this_page=45&page_limit=15&sort_order=photo_id+DESC&nr_pages=5&engine_version=6.0

bingo:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/351902/M/
"This boom-mounted apparatus was used for inflight icing tests."

corroboration:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/kc-135r-ait.htm
"The Airborne Icing Tanker is a modified KC-135R Statotanker aircraft, that simulates rain and ice allowing the military to determine the effects of icing and rain on aircraft. Such an aircraft allows testing to occur at Edwards Air Force Base rather than having to deploy other locations throughout the world to simulate the effects on test aircraft."

http://www.edwards.af.mil/capabilities/docs_html/rain_tanker.html
"This asset (currently mothballed) constituted a unique test capability. An NKC-135A air refueling tanker was modified to carry water instead of fuel in several fuel tanks for use in conducting in-flight icing tests. The water was pumped to a 3 1/2 foot-diameter icing array mounted in place of the fuel nozzle on a modified air refueling boom. Engine bleed air was used to atomize the water exiting the array nozzles and keep the water from freezing."

http://www.afmc-pub.wpafb.af.mil/HQ-AFMC/PA/news/archive/2004/Feb/0225-04.htm
(see photo of icing test in action)
"Global Reach Combined Test Force experts here used a modified KC-135 tanker to generate man-made clouds recently to see how the F/A-22 Raptor performs in rain and ice conditions."

Don't look now, but all those photos were taken by various pilots on various planes, in various locations around the world.

They were NOT taken by some pilot named "HAIK" flying a FEDEX cargo jet.

They were ripped off photos from the world's largest database of amateur aviation photos, airliners.net.

I went to the search engine at airliners.net and typed keyword "contrails", almost all the pics came up.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/287638/M/
Sponsor Message: This photo is copyright protected and may not be used in any way without proper permission. More
=====================
second hit:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/556245/M/
=======================
third hit:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/425455/M/
========================
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/680392/M/
=======================
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/680392/M/
=======================
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/684854/M/
][/size]

More on Scott Stevens:

It just gets worse and worse for Scott Stevens.
Wanna bet this episode, plus his Katrina stuff, is definitely the end of his career?

WRGB WEATHERMAN RESIGNS UNDER CLOUD CHANNEL 6 SAYS STEVENS LIED ON RESUME
Albany Times Union
Section: CAPITAL REGION
Page: B1
Date: Wednesday, February 15, 1995

WRGB WEATHERMAN RESIGNS UNDER CLOUD CHANNEL 6 SAYS STEVENS LIED ON RESUME

CHRIS STURGIS Staff writer

NISKAYUNA Weatherman Scott Stevens has resigned from WRGB (Channel 6) after
station management accused him of lying about his credentials.

In a statement read during Tuesday's 6 p.m. broadcast, David Lynch, vice
president and general manager, said WRGB ``hired Scott Stevens to be chief
meteor-ologist based on faulty information provided by Scott'' and his
agency.
WRGB subsequently learned that ``Scott has never completed the necessary
academic course of studies that would lead him to the official title of
meteorologist,'' according to the statement read by anchorwoman JoAnne
Purtan.

Lynch's statement emphasized that Stevens' allegedly false presentation of
his credentials and the station's concern for its integrity was the issue,
not Stevens' performance.

``During his time at WRGB, Scott Stevens has done a superb job of
forecasting the weather. His knowledge of meteorology and his broadcasting
experience have provided him with the background to serve you well,'' the
statement said.

Meteorologist Steve LaPointe will replace Stevens on the 5, 6, 6:30 and 11
p.m. broadcasts, the station announced.

When contacted Tuesday night, Stevens, 28, an Idaho native, said he never
lied about not completing his bachelor's degree at the University of Kansas.

He said he plans to finish his degree, which he originally put on the back
burner in favor of a television job. ``As a 22-year-old, when you get a good
job offer, that's what talks. My priorities weren't right,'' he said.

He contends that his resignation was forced by a technicality; namely, the
credentials required to be a meteorologist.

``Meteorologist is a very vague term . . . and then when you get into
television on top of that, it adds another whole mix into it,'' he said.

``It's television. It's different than academia. They're buying a
personality. They're buying talent. That's what the TV game is about. It's
about people,'' Stevens continued.

He said he has no immediate plans. ``I wasn't thinking about looking for
work, to be honest with you. It's time to gather the thoughts, and goals and
mind, and go on.''

Stevens said his time in the Capital Region was enjoyable. ``The people have
been surprisingly wonderful. You have a lot of preconceived ideas about New
Yorkers,'' he said. ``I've enjoyed living up here and was looking forward to
a much longer tenure.''
**
Section: LIFE & LEISURE
Page: C5
Date: Thursday, February 16, 1995

EX-CHANNEL 6 WEATHERMAN INSISTS HE DIDN'T LIE ABOUT HIS CREDENTIALS

KEITH MARDER Staff writer

A less-than-specific resume apparently convinced management at WRGB-TV
(Channel 6) to hire Scott Stevens as chief meteorologist a little more than
a year ago.

Stevens resigned from the news station Tuesday after management learned that
he ``had never completed the necessary academic courses that would lead him
to the official title of meteorologist.''
Stevens' resume, which he sent to the station along with a broadcast reel,
states that he attended the University of Kansas from 1984 to 1988. It never
specifically states that he earned a degree, and Stevens says he didn't lie.

``It was more that it didn't come up and I didn't tell,'' he said.

Stevens said WRGB approached him about the job.

``I was looking in the Northwest, not the Northeast,'' he said. ``Out of the
blue, I got a call and it said they were interested in talking to me, and I
obliged.''

Channel 6 news director Neil Goldstein was unavailable for comment Wednesday
on Stevens' resume.

A statement read by the anchors of Tuesday's 6 and 11 p.m. newscasts said
that the station had been misled by Stevens and a ``nationally known talent
agency.''

Stevens' resume, obtained by the Times Union, lists his title at three
previous places of employment as ``meteorologist.''

The resume, however, does say that he is a member of the American
Meteorologist Society, a trade group open only to people with specific
academic credentials.

A call to the AMS said that there was no member named Scott Stevens (or even
Robert Scott Stevens, the name on top of his resume).

A representative of the AMS said in order to be a meteorologist, one must
have a bachelor of science in meteorology; or a BS in a related science such
as physics, plus 12 credits in meteorology; or several credits in specific
courses in five core areas.

Stevens said he was an AMS member two or three years ago. ``There are all
kinds of memberships. All you have to do is pay your dues.''

WTEN-TV's (Channel 10) Steve Caporizzo, an AMS member, said ``You lose a
little respect for someone that calls themself a meteorologist when they did
not go through the hard work or dedication. It takes away from the
profession.''

According to his resume, Stevens previously worked on KJRH, an NBC affiliate
in Tulsa, Okla.), under the title morning meteorologist. He had also worked
in Omaha, Neb. as a prime time meteorologist and at KTKA in Topeka, Kansas,
as chief meteorologist.

Since Stevens joined WRGB in January 1994, the station has promoted Stevens
heavily, calling him a ``scientist'' in promotional material.

``I like the fact, first and foremost, that he is a very good scientist,''
Goldstein said of Stevens last December. ``He's also a very good
communicator. He's a warm guy a friendly guy. It doesn't hurt that he's a
good-looking guy, either.''

Stevens himself said his position ``has always been a hybrid between
entertainment and journalism.''

jayreynolds

04-12-2006, 11:13 AM

Don't look now, Wayne, but they are coming to get you over there in Greece!
http://www.3dsa.gr/eng/activities2.htm

Our specially equipped aircrafts successfully take part in weather modification programs, including hall protection and rain enhancement.
In 1981 and 1982, the company's expert provided technical support to the RUGGERI company for the national hail suppression program in Norhtern Greece. From 1986 through 1988, 3D not only supported technically, but also represented the INTERA company.

In 1992 and 1993, as well as from 1997 through 2002, 3D participated in the national hail suppression program in Northern Greece, realized under the auspices of the Greek Agricultural Insurance Organization.

During the winter of 1994, 3D, through a Greek- American joint venture, led a rain enhancement program for the enrichment of Mornos and Yliki lakes' watersheds. This program was realized under the authority of the Athens Water Company.

During the summer of 2001, 3D, under the authority of ELGA, led a pilot rain enhancement program for the western regions of Greece's Thessaly prefecture

Societe Anonyme with nominal shares.

Founded in 1976 with head office in Thessaloniki.

3D S.A. is active in agricultural applications such as crop dusting, aerial fertilization, seeding, and also firefighting, forecast, prevention and surveys. In 2000, 3D established sabsidiary company in Arkansas (USA), active in agricultural applications.

Since 1976, 3D has sprayed over 20,000,000Km² of olive trees, cotton, corn, chestnut trees, almond trees etc. From 1989 through 1992, 3D has participated in many grassland fertilization programs, which covered areas of more than 500,000Km²

A Greek company well integrated in the aviation field, providing services and applications which cover all the contemporary aviation activities in Greece.

Privately owns offices, 2 Skiathou Str, Thessaloniki, leases, from HCAA
(Hellenic Civil Aviation Authorities), an office at Thessaloniki "Macedonia" Airport and has been accorded an area of 2250 m2 for the construction of a hangar

Owns seven(7) Cessna aircraft and two(2) Air Tractor aircrafts specially equipped for agricultural applications

Owns three(3) Piper Cheyenne II (PA-31T) aircrafts specially equipped for cloud seeding program.

halva

04-12-2006, 12:49 PM

Here are some reasons why weather modification is not occurring:

* Because small-scale weather modification (e.g. cloud seeding) may promote rain in one area to the detriment of another, weather modification could result in inter-state (including Indian Tribes) litigation or private citizen litigation against the modification programs.

(Of course such litigation could also be instigated, overtly or covertly, directly or indirectly, or at least threatened, by "climate change sceptics", as a means of persuading any possible doubters that weather modification is NOT in fact occurring.)

* The legal and liability issues pertaining to weather modification, and the potential adverse consequences on life, property and water resource availability resulting from weather modification activities must be considered fully before the U.S. Government could take responsibility for this new research program.

(So in the meantime, any weather modification that "has to" be done will have to be done without ANYBODY taking responsibility for it.)

* In 1978, the United States became a party to an international treaty banning the use of weather modification for hostile purposes. While modification for peaceful purposes is allowed, whether well-intentioned programmes could be considered "hostile" and perceived to violate this ban should be considered.

(The safest solution is therefore for weather modification programmes to be non-existent.)

halva

04-12-2006, 01:10 PM

Footsoldier, if you would like to take up this or any other related issue at our closed forum or any other suitably moderated forum where postings cannot be read by non-members, I would be pleased to resume contact.

jayreynolds

04-13-2006, 05:23 AM

Here are some reasons why weather modification is not occurring:

* In 1978, the United States became a party to an international treaty banning the use of weather modification for hostile purposes. While modification for peaceful purposes is allowed, whether well-intentioned programmes could be considered "hostile" and perceived to violate this ban should be considered.
The bottom line here is that what Wayne Hall is stating above is false. in fact, weather modification has been and is currently underway in his own country of Greece, as outlined above in my posting. Wayne didn't even know about it.

Despite the chemmie's claims, weather modification is ongoing in many countries, and is regulated by water resources boards and agriculture bureaus.

In 1981 and 1982, the company's expert provided technical support to the RUGGERI company for the national hail suppression program in Norhtern Greece. From 1986 through 1988, 3D not only supported technically, but also represented the INTERA company.

In 1992 and 1993, as well as from 1997 through 2002, 3D participated in the national hail suppression program in Northern Greece, realized under the auspices of the Greek Agricultural Insurance Organization.

During the winter of 1994, 3D, through a Greek- American joint venture, led a rain enhancement program for the enrichment of Mornos and Yliki lakes' watersheds. This program was realized under the authority of the Athens Water Company.

During the summer of 2001, 3D, under the authority of ELGA, led a pilot rain enhancement program for the western regions of Greece's Thessaly prefecture
See, Wayne? agriculture and water interests are in favor of and in control of weather modification projects, even in Greece!

What about the US?
Texas has had a continuously operating weather modification program for fifty years.
http://www.license.state.tx.us/weather/summary.htm
The program is regulated by issuance of licenses, is overseen by a public advisory committee:
"Committee membership has consistently reflected a diversity of occupational interests: an atmospheric scientist, an attorney, a businessman, a rancher/farmer, and an engineer."
http://www.license.state.tx.us/Applications/Application-WMOD.htm

What about North Dakota?
Same thing:
http://www.swc.state.nd.us/4DLink9/4dcgi/GetSubCategoryRecord/Atmospheric%20Resources/Cloud%20Modification%20Project
What about Oklahoma?
Same thing:
http://www.owrb.state.ok.us/hazard/weather/wx_mod.php
What about Arizona?
Same thing:
http://cals.arizona.edu/AZWATER/ALT/arroyo/061wthr.html
What about California?
Same thing:
http://www.waterplan.water.ca.gov/docs/cwpu2005/Vol_2/V2PRD14_precip.pdf
What about Utah?
Same thing:
http://water.utah.gov/cloudseeding/
Are States coordinating their efforts?
Yes:
http://www.naiwmc.org/index.html

Now, let's have a look at what the chemmies have to tell you about the legal framework under which weather modification is carried out. Here is a link to "State and Federal laws" at 'Rosalind Peterson's' website:
http://www.californiaskywatch.com/law/index.html
Yes, the link come up blank!
Why do the chemmies not want you to know about this?
Perhaps you should consider this statement:

U.S. Senate Bill 517 and U.S. House Bill 2995, a bill that would allow experimental weather modification by artificial methods and implement a national weather modification policy, does not include agriculture or public oversight, is on the “fast track” to be passed early in 2006.
No public or agricultural oversight?
Well, in Peterson's home state of California, weather modification is covered by the State Water Plan:
http://www.waterplan.water.ca.gov/docs/cwpu2005/Vol_2/V2PRD14_precip.pdf

Here is a listing of the Advisory Committee membership:
Margit Aramburu - Delta Protection CommissionMary Bannister - Pajaro Valley Water ManagementAgencyKirk Brewer - California Water AssociationMerita Callaway - California State Assoc. of Counties Scott Cantrell - California Dept. of Fish and GameGrace Chan - Metropolitan Water Dist. of SouthernCA Alternate:Don BentleyJim Chatigny - Mountain Counties Water ResourcesAssociationMarci Coglianese - League of California Cities Alternate: Dan Secord, M.D.Bill Cunningham - Natural Resources ConservationService Alternate:Luana KigerGrant Davis - Bay Institute of San FranciscoMartha Davis - Inland Empire Utilities AgencyMary Ann Dickinson - CA Urban Water Conservation Council Alternate:Katie Shulte-JoungNick Di Croce - California Trout Anisa Divine - Imperial Irrigation DistrictWilliam DuBois - California Farm Bureau Federation Alternate:John HewittHoward Franklin - Monterey CountyWater ResourcesAgencyLloyd Fryer - Kern County Water AgencyBill Gaines - California Waterfowl Association Alternate:Mark HennellyFran Garland - Contra Costa Water DistrictPeter Gleick- Pacific Institute for Studies in Development, Environment, and SecurityZeke Grader - Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen'sAssociationsBrent Graham - Tulare Lake Basin Water Storage DistrictDavid Guy - Northern California Water Association Alternate:Todd ManleyMartha Guzman - United Farm Workers of AmericaAlex Hildebrand- SouthDelta Water AgencyMike Hoover - U.S. Fish and Wildlife ServiceBill Jacoby - WateReuse Association Craig Jones - State Water Contractors, Inc. Alternate:Mary Lou CottonRachel Joseph - Lone Pine Paiute-Shoshone Tribe Alternate:Teri CaweltiKevin Kauffman- Stockton East Water District Alternate:Anthony Barkett Steve LaMar – CA Building Industry Association Alternate:Mike WebbJoseph Lima - Modesto Irrigation DistrictJay Lund - University of California, DavisSteve Macaulay -California Urban Water AgenciesJennifer Martin - The Nature Conservancy Alternate:Anthony SaracinoBenjamin Magante, Sr. -San Luis Rey Indian Water AuthorityWilliam (B.J.) Miller - Consulting EngineerJohn Mills - Regional Council of Rural CountiesClifford Moriyama – California Business Properties AssociationEric Natti - California Dept. of Parks & Recreation Valerie Nera -California Chamber of CommerceJames Noyes - Southern CA Water Committee, Inc. Alternate:Alllen GribnauElaine Quitiquit-Palmer–Robinson RancheriaEnid Perez - Del Rey Community ServicesLloyd Peterson - U.S. Bureau of Reclamation Alternate:Al CandlishCathy Pieroni -City of San Diego Water DepartmentNancy Pitigliano - Tulare County Farm Bureau Alternate:Cheryl LehnBetsy Reifsnider - Friends of the River Terry Roberts-Governor’s Office of Planning andResearchLarry Rohlfes - CA Landscape Contractors AssociationSpreck Rosekrans - Environmental Defense Alternate:Ann HaydenJennifer Ruffolo - California Research Bureau Steve Shaffer - California Department of Food and Ag.Polly Osborne Smith - League of Women Voters of CAJim Snow - Westlands Water DistrictFrances Spivy-Weber - Mono Lake CommitteeJohn Sullivan- League of Women Voters Walter Swain - U.S. Geological SurveyGreg Thomas - Natural Heritage Institute Alternate:Rich WalklingMichael Wade - California Farm Water Coalition Michael Warburton - The Ecology Center of BerkeleyArnold Whitridge - Trinity CountyRobert Wilkinson - Univ. of California, Santa Barbara Kourt Williams - Executive Partnership for Environmental Resource Training Carolyn Yale - U.S. Environmental ProtectionAgencyGary Yamamoto - California Dept. of Health Services Tom Zuckerman - Central Delta Water Agency
Looks like Agriculture, and indeed a wide array of interested stakeholders are involved!
http://www.waterplan.water.ca.gov/docs/cwpu2005/vol4/vol4-background-acview.pdf

If Rosalind Peterson really wanted public oversight she has the opportunity to make public commentary on weather modification in here own State. Have a look at what she has done:
http://www.waterplan.water.ca.gov/comments/update2005/2005comments.cfm

Ah, so "no comment" from Rosalind Peterson, how about that?

The bottom line here, folks, is that the chemmies have begun a new 'back-door" strategy to insinuate their hoax into a legitimate issue as yet another subterfuge. There is deception here, as there must be because these hoaxers are loathe to reveal their true reasons for what they do.
They know that they must be deceptive, they know that when they get caught they will be exposed for the kooks they really are.

Prepare yourselves to be exposed.

halva

04-13-2006, 05:35 AM

http://www.legislative.noaa.gov/viewsletters/marburgerweathermodviewsletter121305.pdf

jayreynolds

04-13-2006, 05:41 AM

To: info@californiaskywatch.
Rosalind Peterson,

You really need to stop perpetrating this hoax.

http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?p=542494#post542494

PS: Anybody reading your site gets a good laugh when they read your claims that "supersonic" jets stuff. Do you know what "supersonic" means?
Ha!

I will be writing to the news outlets you have targeted with your hoax. You will be exposed.

Jay Reynolds

Yaak

04-13-2006, 09:01 AM

The bottom line here is that what Wayne Hall is stating above is false. in fact, weather modification has been and is currently underway in his own country of Greece, as outlined above in my posting. Wayne didn't even know about it.

...................etc.............
...................etc.............
...................etc.............

Prepare yourselves to be exposed.
By golly, Wayne, you really stepped in it this time. Pew!

Nice job, Jay.

My thanks to Jay Reynolds for his tireless efforts to keep The Truth at the forefront of these debates

halva

04-13-2006, 10:40 AM

Welcome back your friend Yaak, BC.

Yaak, you are ignore-listed again by me.

halva

04-13-2006, 10:47 AM

jayreynolds

04-13-2006, 11:22 AM

Bodansky:

"Schemes to inject dust or release balloons into the atmosphere are the most problematic of the geoengineering proposals in terms of existing international law because the atmosphere above a country, including the stratosphere, is part of its air space. Nations have claimed this area and acted on their claims (e.g., by shooting down aircraft). Geoengineering proposals involving the atmosphere thus could be viewed as an infringement and incursion on national territory.

Although existing international legal norms are generally permissive, they are unlikely to be a reliable guide to how the international community will react if geoengineering schemes are seriously proposed. Instead, there is likely to be a great deal of resistance. Absent some crisis, there will probably be a drive for the regulation of these activities, and perhaps for their prohibition, because it is very difficult to discern what the inadvertent consequences of such proposals might be. The precautionary principle says, in essence, "when in doubt, don't," and this would probably be the general response to geoengineering. Some international precedents that might be relevant to geoengineering include:
• Ban on Antarctic mineral activities
• Ban on commercial whaling and driftnet fishing
• Ban on ocean incineration and ocean dumping of low-level radioactive waste
Thus, the ultimate obstacles to geoengineering may not be technical or economic, but may instead be political."

Wayne, you can try to ignore the facts, but that doesn't make them go away.
The "Chemtrails are Geoengineering" hoax was over and done with months ago.
Time to stick a fork in it old bean, and eat it with a healthy dose of Crow:

A Primer on Stratospheric Aerosols- FAQ

What is the stratosphere?
The stratosphere is generally considered to be an atmospheric layer above the troposphere between 17(11miles/56,000ft) and 50 km(31 miles/164,000ft) above ground level. Commercial airliners typically cruise at an altitude near 10 km. In the stratosphere, the lowest temperatures are found at the bottom and the highest at the top. Because warm air rises, vertical motions are naturally suppressed in the stratosphere, leading to vertical stratification of the air masses it contains. Atmospheric pressure in the stratosphere varies from approximately 200 to 1millibar(Mb) from bottom to top.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratosphere
http://www.atm.ch.cam.ac.uk/tour/atmosphere.html
http://www.mcwar.org/articles/clouds.html

What is the Junge layer?
While searching for cosmic dust and debris from nuclear bomb tests, Christian Junge discovered in 1960 a layer of microscopic aerosol particles between the tropopause and about 18 miles (30 km) altitude. These particles are composed of sulfuric acid and water and are formed by the chemical transformation of sulfur-containing gases . This layer is called the Junge Layer or the Stratospheric Aerosol Layer. By screening out sunlight, the stratospheric aerosol layer affects the atmospheric energy balance and hence climate.

What are stratospheric aerosols?
Aerosols are minute particles suspended in the atmosphere. Aerosols interact both directly and indirectly with the Earth's radiation budget and climate. As a direct effect, the aerosols scatter sunlight directly back into space. As an indirect effect, aerosols in the lower atmosphere can modify the size of cloud particles, changing how the clouds reflect and absorb sunlight, thereby affecting the Earth's energy budget.

Since routine measurement of stratospheric aerosol began in the late 1970's, aerosol has primarily originated from episodic injections of SO2, a gaseous precursor to sulfate aerosol. Volcanic eruptions can inject a large amount of this gas into the stratosphere. For instance, the 1991 eruption of Mt. Pinatubo in the Philippines increased the total stratospheric aerosol mass by a factor of approximately 30 to about 30 Tg(million tons). Under nominal non-volcanic background conditions that the stratosphere contains about 1 Tg (1 megatonne). Once formed, these aerosols stay in the stratosphere for about two years.

The effect of stratospheric aerosol on climate is at its simplest level straightforward to understand. Under "background" conditions, stratospheric aerosol does not play a significant role in the radiative processes of the Earth-atmosphere system. The presence of enhanced aerosol following an eruption reflects in-coming solar radiation back into space and, as a result, acts to cool the Earth.

In the details, it is rather more complicated. Since the aerosol absorbs in the infrared, upwelling radiation from the Earth's surface is absorbed in the stratosphere, which is warmed as a result. In fact, this is perhaps the most readily discerned effect immediately after an eruption as temperatures rise at some levels well beyond climatological ranges. For instance, following the 1991 eruption of Mt. Pinatubo temperatures measured by radiosonde from Singapore were more than x K greater than the expected value at altitudes near 30 km (or more 3 standard deviations). Similarly, using either ground-based or satellite-based measurements, it can be demonstrated that global-average surface temperature decreased following the Pinatubo eruption. http://oea.larc.nasa.gov/PAIS/Aerosols.html
http://aerosols.larc.nasa.gov/indexintro.html

What is albedo?
The albedo is a measure of reflectivity of a surface or body. The albedo of Earth, i.e., the fraction of the global incident solar radiation that is reflected back to space, is a fundamental parameter of global energy balance. Measurements from space since the 1970s give a global annual Earth albedo of approximately 29%(~.29).

Global albedo can change with changes in Earth's cloud fractional coverage, cloud thickness, aerosol amount, forest cover, or snow and ice cover. For example, a 2-year change in albedo was caused by the large Mount Pinatubo volcanic eruption in June 1991. Stratospheric aerosols from the eruption increased global albedo by up to 0.7% because of the
reflection of an additional 2.5 W/m^2 of solar radiation over the following 2 years.
http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/~tak/wong/f16.pdf

jayreynolds

04-13-2006, 11:24 AM

Sorry to have to cite your debunking again, Wayne, but oh well...................

Geoengineering FAQ(continued)

How big is 10 million tons of Alumina(Al203)?
Alumina weighs approximately 3 tons/cubic yard, so 10 million tons would take up a little more than 3 million cubic yards, about the same volume as the Hoover dam. 10 million tons weighs as much as 27 Empire State buildings. If loaded onto tandem wheel dump trucks, it would take 187,500 truckloads to move it, and a convoy of such trucks, bumper to bumper, would stretch over 800 miles.

What is Alumina, and is it available in nanoparticles of 100 nanometers, as specified in the Teller paper?
Aluminum oxide(alumina/Al203) is used to make aluminum metal, in ceramics, and as an insulator. It is also the abrasive used in common sandpaper. Alumina is not compatible with fuel systems or jet turbine engines because of it's abrasive qualities.
http://www.answers.com/topic/aluminium-oxide
Aluminum oxide of this sort is available for $68.47 per kilogram.
http://nanoactive.interkan.net/CMAC_Catalog/index.phtml?cmd=showcat&catID=27&track=27
The above material is extremely expensive research grade material because of it's ultrafine size. At this price, 10 million tons of nanoparticle alumina would cost $90 billion dollars.

What happened when Mt. Pinatubo erupted, and why is it important?
When Pinatubo erupted, it naturally approximated the events which would take place during a geoengineering program. During the eruption, 20 million tons of aerosol sulfur dioxide and ash were blasted into the stratosphere. These aerosols caused a 0.7% change in earth's reflectance(albedo), as incoming solar energy was reflected back into space. The event lasted about two years, until the aerosols drifted downward and the stratospheric aerosol loading decreased. One measurement of aerosol loading is aerosol optical depth. An animation on the following webpage depicts aerosol optical depth during the years 1985-1999. Clicking on the image, you will see the non-loaded aerosol depth(blue range) turn yellow/orange/red three times during those years after the eruptions of Nevado Del Ruiz(1985), Kelut(1990), and Pinatubo(1991), and then return to it's non-loaded aerosol depth by 1999:
http://aerosols.larc.nasa.gov/optical_depth.html

If a geoengineering program to load the stratosphere with aerosols were underway, could the aerosols be detected?
Yes, considering that low aerosol background levels were reached by 1999(see above), when the "chemttrails" hoax began, you would expect to see a considerable increase in both aerosol loading and albedo if such a program were underway. Several means are available to detect aerosols and changes in albedo. These include worldwide ground based LIDAR instruments and multiple satellite measurements, as well as balloon borne samplers which capture and analyze stratospheric aerosols.

jayreynolds

04-13-2006, 11:27 AM

Yaak

04-13-2006, 11:52 AM

Welcome back your friend Yaak, BC.

Yaak, you are ignore-listed again by me.Another lie, Wayne. You don't have Gaiacomm to echo my posts anymore, so you need to read them yourself to know what I am saying about you.

halva

04-13-2006, 09:00 PM

http://www.legislative.noaa.gov/viewsletters/marburgerweathermodviewsletter121305.pdf

halva

04-13-2006, 10:34 PM

BC, welcome back your friend Yaak.

He is so much more worthwhile having here than the people who have been driven away.

jayreynolds

04-14-2006, 07:01 PM

Damn, Wayne. One would think that you people in Greece would be looking after your own country's pollution problems. Turns out Greece is the world's fourth highest greenhouse gas producer when rated against all other country's performance to the Kyoto Protocols:
increased greenhouse production over 1990 levels are:
Spain- increase of 41.7%
Monaco- increase of 37.8%(big deal)
Portugal - increase of 36.7%
Greece- increase of 25.8%
http://www.pacificresearch.org/pub/sab/enviro/06_enviroindex/images/figure09.gif

We already know that Greece's nasty sulfur output is the highest in Yerp. when are you going to look in the mirror, Wayne, and see that you are already up to your eyebrows right there in your own country.

Why hunt worldwide to find pollution when you are already failing to hide behind your own index finger!

Yaak

04-14-2006, 07:28 PM

BC, welcome back your friend Yaak.

He is so much more worthwhile having here than the people who have been driven away.There does not appear to be much activity here anymore, Wayne.

This could be indicative of a dying off of the chemtrail and human-caused global warming hoaxes.

Have the rats jumped ship?

Were "the people who have been driven away" done so by the truth? I suspect so.

halva

04-14-2006, 08:13 PM

http://www.legislative.noaa.gov/viewsletters/marburgerweathermodviewsletter121305.pdf

halva

04-14-2006, 08:39 PM

It is still possible for any posters of goodwill lurking here -if there are any such - particularly those who posted during the "dogwood trees" sequence, or since then, OBPelican for example, to revise their decision not visibly (to me) to support my compromise call for Reynolds to be excluded permanently from the "Science in the News" section of the forum.

jayreynolds

04-16-2006, 03:06 AM

Get over it!

halva

04-17-2006, 12:03 AM

http://www.legislative.noaa.gov/viewsletters/marburgerweathermodviewsletter121305.pdf

halva

04-18-2006, 08:44 AM

TONIGHT (18th April) ON PBS.... INFORMATION ON WHAT IS BEING CALLED : Global Dimming

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sun/

jayreynolds

04-22-2006, 04:27 AM

If chemmies really wanted to identify planes leaving contrails, all they have to do is to get photos like this:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1033356/L/

Vietnam Airlines
Boeing 777-2Q8/ER
Off-Airport - Prague, Czech Republic, April 2, 2006

VN-A141 (cn 28688/436) Flight from FRA to SGN (Saigon) over Prague
(at FL310= Flight Level 31,000 ft)
[Nikon D70 + Nikkor MF 500/4P]
More: Jakub Vanek
Contact Jakub Vanek

CDsNuTz

04-22-2006, 09:05 AM

Nice TROJAN you have embeded into your link JAY......LOSER

foot_soldier

04-22-2006, 09:10 AM

Nice TROJAN you have embeded into your link JAY......LOSER
Nothing new there. That's standard operating procedure for Jay "Super-Patriot" Reynolds.

Get a clue, people.

jayreynolds

04-22-2006, 11:12 AM

Nice TROJAN you have embeded into your link JAY......LOSER

Just a link to the largest airplane flight photo site on earth.
Over 1000 people have looked at that photo over the past few hours, total views are up to 43,592.
In the last minute, over 100 people viewed the photo.
There is no 'trojan' at that site.
Why would you have to lie about such a thing? Does the idea that an ordinary person could take a photo clear enough to read an airplane's ID number threaten you?

Here it is again:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1033356/L/

Here is another:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1023515/L/

Get a clue, people.
Ha!

jayreynolds

04-22-2006, 11:26 AM

another just to show you how good this photographer really is;
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1023515/L/

Why can't a chemmie ever do anything right
Why do they want to "believe", but never "prove"?

jayreynolds

04-22-2006, 11:30 AM

Need I say more?
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?album=4929&thumbnails=noinfo&page_limit=120&album_name=Gems+Of+Airliners.net&album_creator=alanzb&disp_order=asc

CDsNuTz

04-22-2006, 09:20 PM

First off I didnt say the site had a trojan I said you embeded a trojan into your link,Big difference..
Second I don't have to offer any proof, I know exactly what happened when I clicked your link.Some will believe me some won't, I personally dont care either way..
Thirdly, this is the second time I've had the misfortune of clicking one of your links and getting zapped.Remember PuPPs, yeah that was the first time, remember I said I didnt have any anti virus loaded at the time and you got me..Luckily it was a newly load drive and didnt have any info and was easily reformatted.This time my anti virus caught it so you weren't so lucky..Again I don't have to offer any proof at all, I know what happened and "MY PEOPLE" that know you will certainly believe me. Who do you have to believe you?? mushroomchick and whitemanicman..HAHAHAHAHA LAUGHABLE..........

LOSER

halva

04-23-2006, 12:47 AM

PM the "moderators" about it. I won't do any good, but like everything else at this site it can be "for the record".

Please don't succumb any more to temptation, footsoldier. There are lots of other sites to which real discussion can be adjourned. We have Raynolds on the defensive at the moment. The more visible you are, the more ideas he gets.

jayreynolds

04-23-2006, 05:05 AM

jayreynolds

04-23-2006, 05:16 AM

no news on "chemtrails":
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=chemtrails&btnG=Search+News

CDsNuTz

04-23-2006, 07:22 AM

CDsNuTz

04-23-2006, 07:47 AM

Speaking of liars.........This BIRDS for you JBR......

http://peacetakescourage.cf.huffingtonpost.com/animations/decider.html

jayreynolds

04-23-2006, 11:31 AM

Whatever john,, you know what you did, I know what you did.Those on the same side with me will believe me without a drop of proof simply because they know the type of person you are. The few on your side will believe you simply because like you, they are ignorant . You can say I'm lieing all you want,, I know what happen when i clicked your link and so do you.....

You are a stupid nincompoop.
A link is simply a web address called a URL.
A 'trojan' is a program.
A URL cannot contain a program, period.

The debatebothsides archive shows that my posting, as originally written and which remains undedited, is simply a URL, it contains no program.

http://www.debatebothsides.com/archive/index.php/t-397-p-31.html

You are looking like a foolish "sheople".
Besides, at the other message board where you say this happened, the board owner said you were wrong, the URL I posted at his board worked just fine. Sounds like your computer, as well as yourself, are both pretty lame.

jayreynolds

04-23-2006, 11:35 AM

Those on the same side with me will believe me without a drop of proof
Yes, you chemmies have displayed blind belief plenty of times.

Is it any wonder the chemtrail hoax has no one willing to even look for proof?
Who needs proof when you already have 'true believers'?

It's like a sick parody of a religion, but with no morality, no salvation.

halva

04-24-2006, 01:58 AM

Whatever john,, you know what you did, I know what you did.Those on the same side with me will believe me without a drop of proof simply because they know the type of person you are. The few on your side will believe you simply because like you, they are ignorant . You can say I'm lieing all you want,, I know what happen when i clicked your link and so do you.....

Reynolds is not ignorant. He is perfectly conscious of everything he does. He is indifferent to matters of truth and falsehood.

This is why one supports everyone who opposes him, even when they are mistaken. To oppose him requires courage, which, when coupled with integrity, has precedence over other considerations such as being right or wrong.

It is not Reynolds' task to correct anyone's mistakes unless he wants to start with his own, which he doesn't. For him they are not even mistakes, they are a choice.

If the moderators at this forum do not want to moderate, everyone else has to become a moderator. And moderate Reynolds out.

End of discussion. Leave him to his own devices to find ways of starting a debate again and centring it around himself. Give him no assistance.

jayreynolds

04-24-2006, 03:36 AM

Reynolds is not ignorant. He is perfectly conscious of everything he does.
This is why one supports everyone who opposes him, even when they are mistaken.

No wonder you are a loser, Wayne,
When you support those in error, what else do you expect?

whitemajikman

04-24-2006, 01:12 PM

Yep, They Are So Good At Debate And Debunking That They Have Now Chosen To Ignore.......

Look At Mav's And What It Really Is.....

A House Of Double Standard......

http://p090.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails22884frm1

CDsNuTz

04-24-2006, 07:02 PM

Do you even realize that by calling me a liar, you've only implicated yourself.How could you without being here watching what happen possibly know if I'm lieing?? Any normal civilized individual who unknowingly put up a link to a site with a trojan would have come back with a completely different attitude.Something like "OH SHIT LET ME TAKE THAT LINK DOWN"...Not you though, Nope the guys a "Chemmie" he's got to be a liar.....Sounds Like something the President you voted for would say...

The other site you refer to(PuPPs) has removed the thread we were involved in so you know that what you or i say about that can't be proven otherwise..So where would your PROOF be that he said i was wrong??? I could go ask him if thats what you'd like because we are still on speaking terms, Would you care to go ask him yourself??...........I thought so....I'm sure you remember how you were asked to leave or be banned because he didn't want to hear another word from you??

However you did it I'm not sure but you did it, I know it , you know it, And I'm sure more believe me then you.How can you even live with the shit you do john??? IMO if it weren't for the shallots you grow, replacing the air you breath, you'd be a total waste of space..This is my last response,say what you like you've proven yourself to me once again and all i can do is shake my head in disbelief that there are actually people like you roaming around...

halva

04-25-2006, 12:56 AM

Do you even realize that by calling me a liar, you've only implicated yourself.

Every time Raynolds meets someone new, the first thing he does is to find a reason for calling that person a liar.

Pre-emptive retaliation.Do unto others before they get the chance to do unto you.

jayreynolds

04-25-2006, 01:20 PM

Do you even realize that by calling me a liar, you've only implicated yourself.
Nope, I'm stating a fact. I have already shown proof in the debatebothsides archives, and in my as-yet unedited posting that your accusation is false. You are therefore a liar.

You refuse to show proof of your claim, because you know that what you say is false.

How could you without being here watching what happen possibly know if I'm lieing?? Any normal civilized individual who unknowingly put up a link to a site with a trojan would have come back with a completely different attitude.Something like "OH SHIT LET ME TAKE THAT LINK DOWN"...Not you though, Nope the guys a "Chemmie" he's got to be a liar.....
AH, SO NOW THE LOSER CHANGES HIS STORY, EH?

Let's examine this ever-changing story:

Nice TROJAN you have embeded into your link JAY......

When I pointed out that the URL pointed to a single webpage at airliners.net which was receiving 10,000 hits/day and obviously contains no 'trojan' program, you changed your story to say that it wasn't the website, it was:

First off I didnt say the site had a trojan I said you embeded a trojan into your link,Big difference..
So, twice you claimed that I embeded(sic) a trojan in my link, but haven't shown any proof of your claim, and even said you "don't have to offer any proof", eh?

This is my last response,say what you like you've proven yourself to me once again and all i can do is shake my head in disbelief that there are actually people like you roaming around...

You've already been caught changing your story once, what other poor choices do you have to make?

It has become painfully clear why you can't respond, old bean, you know that to respond leads you into an ever-wider labyrinth of lies which will entangle you.
Good choice, but it is the chaice a loser makes.

And now everybody knows what a lying loser you really are.
They are shaking their collective heads in disbelief at your utter stupidity.

jayreynolds

04-25-2006, 01:25 PM

Any normal civilized individual who unknowingly put up a link to a site with a trojan would have come back with a completely different attitude.Something like "OH SHIT LET ME TAKE THAT LINK DOWN...

Anyone not scared to click a link to the largest airline photo database on the net, just click the same link which I posted before, the one which CDnit now says contains a trojan virus. The webpage has now gotten 51,000 hits and no complaints, except from this chemmie moron who can't make up his mind.........................

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1033356/L/

foot_soldier

04-25-2006, 02:59 PM

jayreynolds

04-25-2006, 06:44 PM

Everybody knows CDsNuTz meant this link:

Contrails, or 'Trails-CON?
A website reviewing the facts and the claims about the Contrails/Chemtrails controversy
by Jay Reynolds
http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/<yawn>

Ah, so now 'footsoldier' is falsely claiming that my website at homestead.com has a trojan virus, is that it?
Pray tell, where is your proof of that, dearie?

halva

04-26-2006, 01:08 AM

Stop at this point. The dogwood trees were enough, enough and enough.

halva

05-07-2006, 09:17 PM

This is the text of the address I gave in the Nuclear Disarmament seminar at the European Social Forum meeting in Athens:

CLIMATE AS WEAPON AND THE ANTI-NUCLEAR MOVEMENT

The first thing to get straight about climate as weapon is that it follows a diametrically opposite logic to nuclear weapons. Our rulers have no use for an anti-“climate as weapon” movement as they have had a use, at least from the sixty years from Hiroshima and Nagasaki to the recent past, for an anti-nuclear weapons movement. There are two reasons why the anti-nuclear movement has been, or was, needed. Firstly, it has not been judged expedient for the world to be full of nuclear weapons, for dozens and hundreds of countries, and not only countries but non-state actors also, to possess nuclear weapons. Until recently the means that were employed to try to prevent horizontal proliferation of nuclear weapons was to tolerate the activities of the anti-nuclear movements, whose chosen tool was international law and international agreements such as the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. It is only in very recent years that our rulers have come to substitute for processes of law and international agreement a one-sided mechanism of arbitrary and selective threat, including the threat of attack with nuclear weapons against certain states which they say are trying to acquire nuclear weapons. This process goes hand in hand with encouragement of other states to acquire nuclear weapons outside of the processes of international law.

The second reason why the anti-nuclear weapons movement has been needed has to do with what came to be the political function.of nuclear weapons. From very early on in the Cold War, when plausible doctrines were being sought to justify nuclear weapons possession, the idea was promoted that nuclear weapons are not to be used as weapons of war but are to be used to deter conventional war. Nuclear weapons, according to this Cold War doctrine of “nuclear deterrence” are useful only as long as they are not used. They are, in other words, political, not military weapons. The trouble with this idea of the political weapon and of “nuclear deterrence” is: how do you get your enemy to be afraid of a weapon you say you are not going to use? This was an even bigger problem for the Soviet Union than it was for the United States. There is a contradiction. If you don't use your nuclear weapons, people will cease to be afraid of them. This implied a second task for the anti-nuclear weapons movements: to make people afraid. To remind them of the existence of nuclear weapons, which most people the course of their everyday lives could easily forget existed. We see the same function being exercised today by the movements against climate change. We saw it highlighted on the Time magazine cover of April 3, 2006, which told us to: “Be worried. Be very worried” about climate change.

In a way the anti-nuclear movements were inheriting for a secular age the task that in the context of traditional religion is assigned to the priest. The task of inspiring fear of hellfire. The socially prescribed attitude to nuclear weapons was to be one of respectful awe. For the Japanese, whose annual commemoration of the anniversaries of Hiroshima and Nagasaki became a central ritual of the post World War II world, this applied even more than for the rest of us. Of course one was allowed to, or even supposed to, disapprove of nuclear weapons, just as we are supposed to disapprove of Satan the devil.

As I said at the beginning, climate as weapon follows an opposite logic to the logic of nuclear weapons. If nuclear weapons are to be deployed as a threat, but not used, climate as weapon is to be used but used in such a way as for it not to be clear whether what happened: the hurricane, the flood, the drought, the tsunami, the earthquake, was a natural phenomenon or the result of military aggression by an enemy. For the first time in human history it has become possible for the boundaries between a state of peace and a state of war to be obliterated so that ordinary citizens do not know whether their society is at peace or at war. We have reached the situation outlined in George Orwell's 1984, where people were taught to repeat and memorize the slogan WAR IS PEACE.

As long ago as the 1970s Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was to become national security to President Jimmy Carter, was writing in his book “Between Two Ages”: “Technology will make available, to the leaders of major nations, techniques for conducting secret warfare, of which only a bare minimum of the security forces need be appraised ... . Techniques of weather modification could be employed to produce prolonged periods of drought or storm.” More recently, in 1997 United States Defense Secretary William Cohen, in a press briefing, commenting on new threats possibly posed by terrorist organizations, said "Others are engaging in an eco-type terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes and volcanoes through the use of electromagnetic waves." In the 2004 best-seller “State of Fear” the writer Michael Crichton similarly posited scenarios where so-called eco-terrorists use electro-magnetic waves to set off tsunamis which they then attribute to the effects of global warming so as to frighten funding organizations into providing financial backing for their ecological projects. Crichton's book was published just prior to the South-East Asian tsunami of Christmas 2004, a coincidence that some found intriguing and others embarrassing. Rosalie Bertell, author of Planet Earth, the latest weapon of war, has aptly commented that the military has a habit of accusing others of having capabilities they already hold.

What evidence is there that climate, or more generally the earth, has been used for military purposes? Because of official secrecy, the evidence is circumstantial. The Tangshan earthquake in China, which killed 650,000 people was preceded by an airglow which the New York Times claimed was caused by the Soviet ionospheric heater. This weapon, a forerunner of the United States' present-day HAARP system, was built with American assistance, including the provision of a 40-ton magnet which at that time, nearly thirty years ago, was said to be the largest in the world. A team of American scientists went to the Soviet Union along with the magnet. The magnet was said to be able to generate a magnetic field 250,000 times greater than that of the earth itself. .

Other circumstantial evidence: weather patterns in North Korea have been marked since the mid-1990s by droughts, followed by floods, resulting in the destruction of the country's agricultural system and the death of hundreds of thousands of people. In 2001 rainfall in North Korea was just 10% of normal levels. In October that year there were then extensive floodings leading to a crisis situation in food distribution.

In Cuba, the pattern has been similar. In 1998 in Eastern Cuba the rainfall was the lowest since 1941. A United Nations team estimated that 539,000 people, 280,000 of them farmers, were directly affected by reduced availability of food or reduced income through production losses. In 2004 the country was hit by the worst drought in its history, affecting 40 percent of the farmland, with thousands of heads of cattle starving. The drought deprived underground water tables of over three metres of water, leaving over 5,000 wells dry. The cities began to run out of water. The Independent newspaper reported that “Drought is bringing Cuba to its knees. Unnoticed by the world, the longest dry period for decades has brought much of Cuba to its knees. Could this be the crisis that finally destroys Fidel's revolution?”

The drought caused millions of dollars in losses. Officials spent millions more digging wells, building a water pipeline and taking other measures to try to ease the crisis. That was the situation until late 2004, when hurricanes hit the Cuban coastline, followed by torrential rains.

The worst drought in the history of Afghanistan occurred in the three consecutive years prior to the US-led invasion, from 1999 to 2001. Following the invasion, the United States supplied Afghanistan with genetically-modified wheat, which was said to be drought resistant.
Similar conditions prevail in the former Soviet republics of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan. In Tajikistan the worst regional drought in 74 years destroyed food crops over a large part of the nation, rendering almost half of the 6.2 million people in the country vulnerable to the threat of famine and disease.

In 2001, triggered by the lowest rainfall in living memory, vast tracts of Iran, Uzbekistan, Pakistan and Tajikistan were being reduced to desert as the water table sank, long-established wells dried up and herds of livestock perished.

A study published by the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research in the UK , predicted that Asian countries from Kazakhstan to Saudi Arabia will warm up more than twice as much as others. The crisis appears to fulfill climate change predictions that states along the old Silk Road will experience steeper rises in temperature than any other region on earth.

halva

05-07-2006, 09:19 PM

In 1999, Iraq suffered its worst drought of the century, triggering an even greater dependence on imported grain under the oil for food program. There was a drop of up to 70 percent in domestic yields of wheat, barley and other cereals, which served to further weaken the country's economy, already crippled by economic sanctions and the routine bombing by allied aircraft in the no-fly zones.

To move from the geo-political to the economic front, there is the example of the stationary high pressure system which, very unnaturally, persisted over British Columbia for months on end in 2003 and 2004, drying out the coastal rainforest and the interior to the point of creating two of the worst forest-fire seasons every known. Did this have anything to do with the "softwood lumber" dispute between Canada and the United States? American lumber businesses have in the past vigorously opposed imports from the north. Is the freakish pattern of weather in Western Canada the continuation of trade war by new technological means?

In the United States, in September last year, in the wake of the political controversy over Hurricane Katrina, employees of the National Weather Service in were told that all contacts with the national media now required approval from the Commerce Department. Under the new policy the Commerce Department rather than the local weather agencies would henceforth determine whether National Weather Service employees could speak to journalists.

What can ordinary citizens do about the use of weather as a weapon? An international convention was ratified by the UN General Assembly in 1977 in response to the use of weather warfare by the United States in Vietnam. It says that "Each State Party to this convention undertakes not to engage in military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting or severe effects as the means of destruction, damage of injury to any other State Party." Both the US and the Soviet Union were signatories to that convention.

In February 1998 a committee of the European Parliament held public hearings on weather warfare. The committee's subsequent Motion for Resolution was submitted in January 1999 but was dismissed on the grounds that “the European Commission lacks the required jurisdiction to delve into the links between environment and defense.” It should be the task of the European Social Forum to see to it that the Commission acquires that jurisdiction.

Attempts are being made by some United States Congressmen to establish a national weather modification policy. Despite apparent opposition by a section of the executive that prefers to have weather modification continue in its present status of illegality concealed by secrecy, it is expected that Senate Bill 517 and U.S. House of Representatives Bill 2995 will be passed in 2006. At the initiative of the Californian farm activist Rosalind Peterson, demonstrations have been held in California and Arizona against the new weather modification bills. Unfortunately, in both cases the demonstrations have encountered a near-total media blackout. .

Even though European public opinion is less distracted by the debate raging in the United States between climate change activists and so-called climate change sceptics, both of whom divert attention from both military and non-military forms of climate modification, in Europe there is just as much censorship of discussion on climate modification as in the United States.

The Canadian academic and political activist Michel Chossudovsky has pointed out that at the November 2005 Montreal Conference on Climate Change neither the government delegations nor the environmental action groups participating raised the issue of “weather warfare” or “environmental modification techniques” for military use. “Despite a vast body of scientific knowledge, the issue of deliberate climatic manipulation for military use is no longer part of the UN agenda on climate change.”

The response to this, of course, is that our task is to get it back on. If the post-Vietnam War political climate made it possible before, it can be possible again.

halva

05-22-2006, 08:12 PM

jayreynolds

05-23-2006, 05:51 AM

NBC program on "chemtrails": "Toxic Sky"?

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/9155725/detail.html

That smile on the face of Mr. Paul Moyer is almost enough to make one lose interest in the subject of his program.
Don't count your chickens before they hatch, Wayne.

That smile is a smirk.

I see a different smile on the paltry faces displayed at the recent "mass protest" about chemtrails in LA. Looks like I was correct, though, about a dozen people showing up.
Crude signs standing by the roadside. A sad display if ever I saw one.
http://img130.imageshack.us/slideshow/player.php?id=img130/3010/11481887669zl.smil

The smiles in LA are happy, not angry or defiant. This was a social gathering of benefit for those sharing a delusion, a mutual 'rah-rah' event, not anything effective in a real-world sense or an advacement in any way.

halva

05-23-2006, 06:02 AM

Chemtrails 911 write: "Chemtrails are getting some news coverage from some major networks and we are sure you will not want to miss this report! Let's hope for the best."

I don't feel to be on the same wavelength as whoever wrote that. Whatever is going on behind the scenes with fhis media presentation, I don't feel it has much connection with the activities and the priorities of our milieu.

jayreynolds

05-24-2006, 03:59 AM

From: "co2_emissions" <junkmail@...>
Date: Tue May 23, 2006 8:22 pm
Subject: Theory of argument co2_emissions
Offline
Send Email

--- In climatechangepolitics@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <rhfoy@...> wrote:
> Somehow this discussion leaves me somewhat frustrated. The reason is
> that it SEEMS to be say that every thing is opinion and perhaps that
> all opinions are to be equally respected.

It boils down to logic. A conclusion is 'true' if the premises are
'true' and the logic is valid. When stating an opinion without
detailing the premises and chain of logic you followed to reach that
conclusion, it is nothing more than opinion.

The person stating the opinion may be legitimately asked to explain
their supporting logic. Until they do so, assuming they don't refuse
to do so, they should be given the benefit of the doubt and the
opinion not dismissed out of hand.

If, having explained the premises and logic, and assuming the logic is
sound, the argument can move to whether or not the premises are
'true'. The point at which the argument reaches premises that everyone
agrees to accept (even though they are still opinion) is where the
argument can be accepted and the chain of logic and conclusions also
accepted.

Of course, it rarely happens like this.

We all (for the most part) share fundamental assumptions about how the
world works - cause and effect, laws of physics, validity of logic and
maths. On this is built a structure of conjecture and hypothesis to
explain our perceptions.

The structure is only partly understood, and at each floor we make an
assumption or five to allow us to build the floor above it. Sometimes
we make the same assumptions. Sometimes our assumptions are unusual,
even unique, to ourselves.

As the structure gets higher, the degree to which each floor is
supported varies according to each person's assumptions. A discussion
forum such as this is about sharing chains of logic and testing
assumptions (or revealing fondly held beliefs to be merely assumptions).

In this way, each of us can decide for ourselves how well supported
each conclusion is. It seems to me to be sensible to adhere to any
assumptions that are well supported, and discard any that make the
structure unstable.

Believers make the mistake of defending their assumptions against all
attacks (see cognitive dissonance) and therefore regarding the shored
up crumbling edifice as a collection of facts. By all means defend
your assumptions, but turning them into matters of faith erects a
dangerously high building on temporary foundations.

Older assumptions and opinions, such as the various religions, just
can't take the weight of modern knowledge.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/climatechangepolitics/message/1653

Wayne, your guy sees straight through your pseudo-religious fanaticism.

You are finished over there.

halva

05-24-2006, 05:12 AM

Reynolds has a habit of intervening from here in discussions going on at forums from which he has been banned.

This does not however apply to all forums. He is not yet known absolutely EVERYWHERE on the Internet.

halva

05-24-2006, 06:12 AM

First real mainstream media coverage in the US of the subject of the illegal high altitude spraying by large military type aircraft of unknown substances - commonly referred to as 'chemtrails'.

http://chemtrails.exzani.com/Chemtrails_-_NBC4-LA_-_Toxic_Sky_-_5-24-06.wmv

Large .wmv file of 13,022KB - high speed needed?

There may be better quality recordings later but this will do for now!

**

Comment from ricksgardeningtips:

Great job, Paul Moyer!

I think this is as fair and balanced a piece as you're going to see on
network TV. Sure, there was the obligatory disagreeing DOE meteorologist, and a couple of garden variety skeptics, but by the end of the piece you were thinking, "he's right, they're doing something."

There was a questionable link between a pollen cloud and chemtrails that I thought was going nowhere, but there were lots of great dramatic CT shots, an excellent interview with Rosalind Peterson, who was just great in her segment with Moyer. She covered barium, aluminum and the upcoming bills on weather modification succinctly. All the main points were covered, and they made a point of saying this was not confined to a small mountain town, but believed to be conducted everywhere. Moyers himself seemed genuinely convinced, which sold the show for me.

Others may disagree, but I think this was a big victory - I'll be calling and emailing them tomorrow.

Rick

halva

05-24-2006, 06:41 AM

Here is the comment from Reynolds' "buddy" Chem 11:

So far, the best investigation I've seen broadcast so far. They actually said it... geoengineering. Then they trotted out some guy from the DoE (no, it wasn't Jim Phelps) who stated that if it isn't happening now, it soon will be and he was very specific about the research that has been done on creating artficial clouds with specific properties.

There was also somone from California Skywatch claiming it was barium, which is of course a little embarassing at this stage of the game, but the other 95% percent of the show was solid. The segment ended with references to the Weather Modifcation Act that's in Congress right now and a promise that "there will be more" coverage of the issue by NBC.

In fact, there's supposed to be a web-report up tomorrow at 9am. Hopefully they'll include the broacast segment in their video on-demand section....

Re-linking: http://www.nbc4.tv/news/9155725/detail.htmlhttp://www.nbc4.tv/video/index.html

halva

05-25-2006, 10:20 PM

http://www.alpenhornnews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=501

KNBC Channel 4 to focus on mysterious yellow powder

NBC station news team investigates reports of chemtrails, lingering illnesses as reported in The Alpenhorn News

by Laurie A. Kelly and Douglas W. Motley

The mysterious yellow powder that settled over mountain communities last winter and may be linked to increased reports of illness among local residents is about to achieve a new level of notoriety, as a major Los Angeles television station focuses its cameras on it.

Paul Moyer, news anchor for KNBC News, and his Channel 4 news crew were recently in Crestline, interviewing local residents and members of The Alpenhorn News staff involved in a pair of articles, published in February.

The stories dealt with the yellow dust, which first appeared in the sky over Cedar Glen, and linked the powder to possible chemtrail activity over the San Bernardino Mountains. The five- minute news segment is set to air on Tuesday during Channel 4’s 11 p.m. news.

Jim Sheehan, producer of the KNBC news program, said the subject came to his attention through an e-mail he recently received about an article concerning chemtrails that was published in the Topanga Messenger. He discovered the two articles published in The Alpenhorn News during his research by “googling” the subject of aerosol chemical spraying. The articles piqued his interest and he took the possible story line to Moyer.

The anchorman was getting ready to go on the air for his regular news slot when Sheehan posed the possibility of doing the story. The two men agreed they should do it, Sheehan said, and within weeks schedules were being coordinated.

“We’re always looking for interesting stories to do for sweeps week,” said Moyer, referring to the times when Nielsen Media Research queries sample viewers about what TV shows they’ve been watching. Sweeps week results are crucial, for stations’ advertising rates can be raised or lowered, depending on how many people watch their programs during these periods.

KNBC’s news crew spent the day driving around and gathering footage for the yellow-powder segment. The crew’s work included filming the skies over mountain areas and the San Bernardino Valley, chris-crossed with the visible white lines that were the basis for the controversy.

Moyer even managed a few enjoyable moments with a vanload of children from Redlands, who were visiting the mountains on their spring break. He talked to the young girls and explained why he was there, pointing to the sky. The children were skeptical, but a woman with them stood nearby, nodding her head.

At one point, Dennis H. Labadie, owner and publisher of The Alpenhorn News, was interviewed. Seated at Labadie’s desk, Moyer asked the publisher how the newspaper had become interested in the topic of chemtrails. Labadie told Moyer about the numerous phone calls he had received from concerned local citizens who had told him about the mysterious yellow powder that had fallen from the sky between December and February.

Labadie also raised the subject of the serious, long-lasting respiratory illnesses mountain residents had been experiencing in the aftermath of the yellow powder’s appearance. It was Labadie’s concern for the safety of his community that led him to publish the articles, he said.

During the interview there was a moment of comedy to soften the seriousness of the topic under discussion. Labadie’s dog, Kolo, who regularly travels across Crestline to visit his owners at work, wandered into the office and began licking Moyer’s hand. Moyer laughed, saying it was nice to see his fan base was expanding.

In a more serious moment, Moyer asked Labadie how he knew for certain that the yellow powder had not been tree pollen, as some area officials are professing it to be.

“Because tree pollen doesn’t fall in December in our mountains,” Labadie replied.

At the conclusion of the interview, Moyer and his crew left the office to witness more seemingly fresh chemtrails that had just appeared in the sky above Crestline. Moyer commented on the phenomenon as his cameraman continued to film them.

Other interviews were conducted with Ed Burrows, a retired Crestline pharmacist, Gretchen Sherman, a concerned Lake Arrowhead resident and this reporter.

Moyer said he had recently been awarded a Peabody Award, the station’s first one, for his work about a threatened wildlife habitat at Playa Vista, a wetland near Los Angeles International Airport.

Sheehan and Moyer both referred to the day as a success and said that they had enjoyed their time in the mountains.

The Alpenhorn News is no stranger to media attention. Several articles that have been published on its pages have found a way into the limelight, receiving positive attention from various news sources and print venues.

halva

05-31-2006, 09:27 PM

The issue of chemtrails was covered by NBC News' Paul Moyer (Channel 4 in Los Angeles) on May 23, 2006. It can be seen by visiting our website www.chemtrails911.com or at http://www.nbc4.tv/video/9265818/detail.html.

It is necessary to show support for this type of coverage. While it was not perfect, it was far from a disappointment. Actually we are very pleased with the objective journalism that was portrayed, something that has been greatly lacking in other mainstream reports on the issue.

It is very important to let Paul Moyer and NBC4.tv know that you appreciate this type of reporting and that you want to see more on this issue. Also ask if they can make all of the verbal transcripts public on their website. Please do this now for it is so important and it only takes a few minutes to make a difference.

You can email them at: http://www.nbc4.tv/contactus/index.html

You can call them at: (818) 840-4444
You can write them at:
Paul Moyer
c/o NBC4
3000 West Alameda Ave.
Burbank, CA 91523

Thank you!

www.chemtrails911.com

Look Up! Wake Up! Speak Out!

This is the note I sent to them:

We appreciate the coverage NBC and specifically Paul Moyer gave to the chemtrails issue in your news programme of May 23. We are telling people about it, and believe that this type of socially responsible reporting will enhance your reputation.

Wayne Hall
(http://www.enouranois.gr)
Athens, Greece

jayreynolds

06-01-2006, 03:29 AM

[i]We appreciate the coverage NBC and specifically Paul Moyer gave to the chemtrails issue in your news programme of May 23. We are telling people about it, and believe that this type of socially responsible reporting will enhance your reputation.
Don't put much stock into this, Wayne. The closer any real investigator peers down your rabbit hole, the more shite they will find, but it won't be geoengineering, it will be your people's malfeasance.

halva

06-01-2006, 06:28 AM

I can't read what Reynolds is saying in these postings he makes, but I hope someone will notify me when he posts his dramatic correspondence with Paul Moyer shooting him down in flames for his softness on "chemmie" hoaxes.

halva

06-25-2006, 08:43 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4755996.stm

Telescopes 'worthless' by 2050
By Paul Rincon
BBC News science reporter

Ground astronomy could be compromised if trends continue, experts say
Ground-based astronomy could be impossible in 40 years because of pollution from aircraft exhaust trails and climate change, an expert says.

Aircraft condensation trails - known as contrails - can dissipate, becoming indistinguishable from other clouds.

If trends in cheap air travel continue, says Professor Gerry Gilmore, the era of ground astronomy may come to an end much earlier than most had predicted.

Aircraft along with climate change will contribute to increased cloud cover.

You either give up your cheap trips to Majorca, or you give up astronomy. You can't do both

Gerry Gilmore, University of Cambridge

The timescale is based on extrapolating air traffic growth figures. The BBC has learned that the calculations were made as part of preparations for an upcoming observatory project called the Extremely Large Telescope (ELT).

The ELT is intended to probe planets around nearby stars and look for extremely faint objects in the Universe.

Vision impaired

"It is already clear that the lifetime of large ground-based telescopes is finite and is set by global warming," Professor Gilmore, from Cambridge's Institute of Astronomy, told reporters recently in London.

"There are two factors. Climate change is increasing the amount of cloud cover globally. The second factor is cheap air travel.

"You get these contrails from the jets. The rate at which they're expanding in terms of their fractional cover of the stratosphere is so large that if predictions are right, in 40 years it won't be worth having telescopes on Earth anymore - it's that soon.

"You either give up your cheap trips to Majorca, or you give up astronomy. You can't do both."

Climate change is also expected to increase the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere through evaporation, contributing to overall cloudiness. The increase in cloud cover would affect both optical and infrared astronomy, which would have to be carried out from space.

Radio astronomy would continue to be ground-based.

Identical appearance

Contrails often present little more than a transient nuisance to astronomers; but when certain weather conditions prevail, they can break to look like natural clouds.

Holger Pederson, an astronomer at the Nils Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, Denmark, who has studied contrails, explained: "You can recognise the jet contrails when they are young. So you can stop your observation and then restart as soon as the contrail has passed the field of view of the telescope.

Satellite imagery can be used to monitor contrail evolution

In pictures

"Worse is when the contrails last for hours. Then they degrade into something you can hardly distinguish from natural cirrus clouds."

Dr Hermann Mannstein, of the German Aerospace Centre (DLR), agreed astronomy would become more difficult, but said there was an upper limit on the contrail problem.

Contrails form where the air is highly saturated with water vapour, but will not form if the air is too dry

"You don't clog the whole sky. You have a certain proportion of the sky, in time and space, that can be affected," he said.

Restriction zones

But Professor Gilmore countered: "There are places where you get relatively fewer clouds - that's where we put our telescopes - but there is nowhere on Earth that you don't get clouds and aeroplanes.

"Already, around the major observatories, there are local laws to prevent aeroplanes flying within quite large distances," he told the BBC News website.

Professor Gilmore said sites where observatories are located, such as the Canary Islands, Hawaii and South America, are also attractive holiday destinations, and likely centres for future air traffic growth.

He added that the projections did not factor in the effects of global warming, which are likely to exacerbate the problem.

Mr Pederson said too few satellites built up image data on how contrails evolved over time.

"We may underestimate the amount of contrail-derived cirrus clouds," he said.

"We know from satellite imagery that clusters of contrails can last for two days. If carried by the upper jet stream through the troposphere, they can travel hundreds of kilometres."

There are several concepts under consideration for the European ELT, but the preferred design seems to be converging on a telescope that is some 30-60m in diameter.

A location has not been decided; but, despite the difficulties of access, Antarctica may become an option. The icy region has relatively clear skies, with a climate that is somewhat separate from other continents, and, crucially, is free from overflying commercial jets.

halva

06-27-2006, 08:35 AM

How to Cool a Planet (Maybe)

In the past few decades, a handful of scientists have come up with big, futuristic ways to fight global warming: Build sunshades in orbit to cool the planet. Tinker with clouds to make them reflect more sunlight back into space. Trick oceans into soaking up more heat-trapping greenhouse gases.

Their proposals were relegated to the fringes of climate science. Few journals would publish them. Few government agencies would pay for feasibility studies. Environmentalists and mainstream scientists said the focus should be on reducing greenhouse gases and preventing global warming in the first place.

But now, in a major reversal, some of the world's most prominent scientists say the proposals deserve a serious look because of growing concerns about global warming.

Worried about a potential planetary crisis, these leaders are calling on governments and scientific groups to study exotic ways to reduce global warming, seeing them as possible fallback positions if the planet eventually needs a dose of emergency cooling.

"We should treat these ideas like any other research and get into the mind-set of taking them seriously," said Ralph J. Cicerone, president of the National Academy of Sciences in Washington.

The plans and proposed studies are part of a controversial field known as geoengineering, which means rearranging the earth's environment on a large scale to suit human needs and promote habitability. Dr. Cicerone, an atmospheric chemist, will detail his arguments in favor of geoengineering studies in the August issue of the journal Climatic Change.

Practicing what he preaches, Dr. Cicerone is also encouraging leading scientists to join the geoengineering fray. In April, at his invitation, Roger P. Angel, a noted astronomer at the University of Arizona, spoke at the academy's annual meeting. Dr. Angel outlined a plan to put into orbit small lenses that would bend sunlight away from earth — trillions of lenses, he now calculates, each about two feet wide, extraordinarily thin and weighing little more than a butterfly.

In addition, Dr. Cicerone recently joined a bitter dispute over whether a Nobel laureate's geoengineering ideas should be aired, and he helped get them accepted for publication. The laureate, Paul J. Crutzen of the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany, is a star of atmospheric science who won his Nobel in 1995 for showing how industrial gases damage the earth's ozone shield. His paper newly examines the risks and benefits of trying to cool the planet by injecting sulfur into the stratosphere.

The paper "should not be taken as a license to go out and pollute," Dr. Cicerone said in an interview, emphasizing that most scientists thought curbing greenhouse gases should be the top priority. But he added, "In my opinion, he's written a brilliant paper."

Geoengineering is no magic bullet, Dr. Cicerone said. But done correctly, he added, it will act like an insurance policy if the world one day faces a crisis of overheating, with repercussions like melting icecaps, droughts, famines, rising sea levels and coastal flooding.

"A lot of us have been saying we don't like the idea" of geoengineering, he said. But he added, "We need to think about it" and learn, among other things, how to distinguish sound proposals from ones that are ineffectual or dangerous.

Many scientists still deride geoengineering as an irresponsible dream with more risks and potential bad side effects than benefits; they call its extreme remedies a good reason to redouble efforts at reducing heat-trapping gases like carbon dioxide. And skeptics of human-induced global warming dismiss geoengineering as a costly effort to battle a mirage.

Even so, many analysts say the prominence of its new advocates is giving the field greater visibility and credibility and adding to the likelihood that global leaders may one day consider taking such emergency steps.

"People used to say, 'Shut up, the world isn't ready for this,' " said Wallace S. Broecker, a geoengineering pioneer at Columbia. "Maybe the world has changed."

Michael C. MacCracken, chief scientist of the Climate Institute, a private research group in Washington, said he was resigned to the need to take geoengineering seriously.

"It's really too bad," Dr. MacCracken said, "that the United States and the world cannot do much more so that it's not necessary to consider getting addicted to one of these approaches."

Martin A. Apple, president of the Council of Scientific Society Presidents, said of geoengineering at a recent meeting in Washington, "Let's talk about research funding with enough zeroes on it so we can make a dent."

The study of futuristic countermeasures began quietly in the 1960's, as scientists theorized that global warming caused by human-generated emissions might one day pose a serious threat. But little happened until the 1980's, when global temperatures started to rise.

Some scientists noted that the earth reflected about 30 percent of incoming sunlight back into space and absorbed the rest. Slight increases of reflectivity, they reasoned, could easily counteract heat-trapping gases, thereby cooling the planet.

Dr. Broecker of Columbia proposed doing so by lacing the stratosphere with tons of sulfur dioxide, as erupting volcanoes occasionally do. The injections, he calculated in the 80's, would require a fleet of hundreds of jumbo jets and, as a byproduct, would increase acid rain.

By 1997, such futuristic visions found a prominent advocate in Edward Teller, a main inventor of the hydrogen bomb. "Injecting sunlight-scattering particles into the stratosphere appears to be a promising approach," Dr. Teller wrote in The Wall Street Journal. "Why not do that?"

But government agencies usually balked at paying researchers to study such far-out ideas, and even ones that were more down to earth. John Latham, an atmospheric physicist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Colorado, told how he and his colleagues had unsuccessfully sought for many years to test whether spraying saltwater mists into low ocean clouds might increase their reflectivity.

"We haven't found a way in," Dr. Latham said of government financing. "It's been a bit dispiriting."

Other plans called for reflective films to be laid over deserts or white plastic islands to be floated on the world's oceans, both as ways to reflect more sunlight into space.

Another idea was to fertilize the sea with iron, creating vast blooms of plants that would gulp down tons of carbon dioxide and, as the plants died, drag the carbon into the abyss.

The general reaction to such ideas, said Alvia Gaskill, president of Environmental Reference Materials Inc., a consulting firm in North Carolina that advocates geoengineering, "has been dismissive and sometimes frightened — afraid that we don't know what the consequences will be of making large-scale changes to the environment."

Dr. Gaskill said small experiments would let researchers quickly pull the plug if such tinkering started to go awry.

Critics of geoengineering argued that it made more sense to avoid global warming than to gamble on risky fixes. They called for reducing energy use, developing alternative sources of power and curbing greenhouse gases.

But international efforts like the Kyoto Protocol — which the United States never ratified, and which China and India as members of the developing world never had to obey, freeing the current and projected leaders in greenhouse gas emissions from its restrictions — have so far failed to diminish the threat. Scientists estimate that the earth's surface temperature this century may rise as much as 10 degrees Fahrenheit.

Geoengineering's advocates say humankind is already vastly altering the global environment and simply needs to do so more intelligently.

Dr. Angel, the University of Arizona astronomer, told members of the science academy of his idea for an orbital sunshade, calling the proposal less important than the goal of encouraging bold thought.

"This could engage a whole generation," he said in an interview. "All I'm saying is, let's start thinking about these kinds of things in case we need them one day." Such visionary plans are still far from winning universal acclaim. James E. Hansen of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, who attended the talk and strongly advocates curbing emissions, belittled the orbital sunshade as "incredibly difficult and impractical."

Dr. Crutzen, the Nobel laureate from the Max Planck Institute, has also drawn fire for his paper about injecting sulfur into the stratosphere. "There was a passionate outcry by several prominent scientists claiming that it is irresponsible," recalled Mark G. Lawrence, an American scientist who is also at the institute.

The stratospheric plan called for fighting one kind of pollution (excess greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide) with another (sulfur dioxide), though it appeared that any increase in sulfur at the earth's surface would be small compared with the tons already being emitted from the smokestacks of coal-fueled plants.

halva

06-27-2006, 08:35 AM

Dr. Cicerone of the science academy helped broker a compromise: Dr. Crutzen's paper would be published, but with several commentaries, including his own. They will appear in the August issue of Climatic Change. The other authors are Dr. Lawrence of the German chemistry institute, Dr. MacCracken of the Climate Institute, Jeffrey T. Kiehl of the National Center for Atmospheric Research, and Lennart Bengtsson of the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology in Germany.

In a draft of his paper, Dr. Crutzen estimates the annual cost of his sulfur proposal at up to $50 billion, or about 5 percent of the world's annual military spending.

"Climatic engineering, such as presented here, is the only option available to rapidly reduce temperature rises" if international efforts fail to curb greenhouse gases, Dr. Crutzen wrote.

"So far," he added, "there is little reason to be optimistic."

Andrew C. Revkin contributed reporting for this article.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/27/science/earth/27cool.html?_r=1&oref=login

halva

06-29-2006, 08:34 PM

Note this confessional. No guarantees of course as to its bona fides:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread11004.html?sid=25a7cbfabfc772c57eff307f1ad89 4f9

I registered today because I have to get this off my chest. I have prostate cancer and it looks like I only have a few more months to live. As I lie here on my deathbed, literally with my notebook on my lap I must confess what I feel is the lowest point of my aviation career, and my actions for which I am completely ashamed of. I have been a pilot for over 30 years and too many of those were spent as a participant in Project Firetrail. Project Firetrail's purpose was to distribute, as you call them, "chemtrails" for the US government. I flew for a very high profile defense contractor which shall remain nameless. I had little idea at the time the side affects they would cause on people, even less so my own health. I started off as a crop dusting pilot, then through I friend I contacted a contractor that was spraying poppy crops in Columbia. I decided to hop on board with them because the pay was good and it sounded exciting. Eventually this led me to the pilot position in Project Firetrail.

I have little knowledge of what exactly the chemical we sprayed consisted of, but I know what it's purpose was for. We were trying to change the climate pattern of the earth to see if we could stop global warming. We all thought we were doing the right thing, but if the American people knew what kind of chemicals we were using they would be up in arms. So far, the experiments have showed very little progress in slowing down the rate of climate change. What the chemicals have caused is respiratory and cell damage problems to, what I am estimating, is thousands of people. We would wake up early in the morning at 0600 and plan the mission for the day. For the most part, we flew white 737s with red stripes on the sides and would criss cross our trails to get maximum coverage and make it look like they were simply two intersecting contrails on two airways. We would fly for about 3 to 4 hours then land at the base in Nevada to refuel and reload the "spitters" as we called them.

Usually there were 3 crew members on board. 2 pilots and an engineer who operated the dispenser the engineers knew the most about the project and the chemicals. That said, they were also paid the most and would risk the most if they talked. The dispenser can be identified by the hole at the tail. This is usually where the auxiliary power unit (APU) was located, but we removed them so we could stay incongnito and not have any external tanks hanging off the wings. I think thats all I am willing to speak on the matter, but I think thats plenty to get the idea of what we do.

I am an old man now, 84 to be exact. I have had a fulfilling life, but this subject has remained my darkest secret. I am only glad that before my wife of 47 years died I was able to tell her what I really did for those many years. She forgave me, and I hope you good people will as well. I will read the replies and answer a few questions, until then goodbye, and I'm sorry.

The exchange that follows this posting at CTC has the familiar mixture of religious and cynical posters. Why oh why is it not possible to have in this field the "no nonsense" attitude that people have when it comes to subjects they take seriously, like making money?

Can America have been built by people like this, who spend years of their lives silently doing things about which they feel guilty?

halva

07-04-2006, 12:57 AM

The above posting turns out to be a scam.

halva

07-04-2006, 12:58 AM

As far as "How to Cool the Planet" is concerned, it was picked up by the Greek mass-circulation press:

http://ta-nea.dolnet.gr/print_article.php?e=A&f=18576&m=N47&aa=1

halva

07-05-2006, 10:16 PM

Our Greek website now has some English components.

http://www.enouranois.gr

halva

07-07-2006, 09:44 PM

WARNING

YOU WILL BE SPRAYED TONIGHT -11:59pm - 4am!
"County vector control crews were scheduled to spray the chemical in a
fine mist through parts of West San Jose and Saratoga overnight," CA
By Yomi S. Wronge Mercury News
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/14956886.htm?http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/14985593.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

The chemical spray will occur over a 62-mile residential area during late Friday night when residents will be returning home after a typical late Friday night out. They also choose to spray when families will be home for the next two days (weekend), and not at work or school so everyone can to inhale the residue.- How thoughtful.

Take the Poll
Should communities spray for mosquitoes
to curb the spread of West Nile virus?
http://forums.mercurynews.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=kr-mercurynews&msg=3986.1%20

www.chemtrails911.com

Look Up! Wake Up! Speak Out!

halva

07-10-2006, 01:45 AM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8262483364410309502

This 45 minute documentary from the Science Channel outlines the history of weather modification projects (as well as existing weather related projects) and provides an excellent base for more online research searches that you might want to do. It addresses the roots of HAARP also, and refers to future weather modification projects.

halva

07-11-2006, 10:34 AM

Et in Arcadia ego

07-27-2006, 12:52 AM

The thread that refused to die..

Where is Jimbo? I don't see him in the last few pages here. Did someone here arrive at wisdom and finally ban his ass or what?

Cheers Halva,
D

halva

07-27-2006, 03:04 AM

The thread that refused to die..

Where is Jimbo? I don't see him in the last few pages here. Did someone here arrive at wisdom and finally ban his ass or what?

Cheers Halva,
D

Yes. Jim Phelps was banned. Reynolds was not.

Jim Phelps' greatest mistake was trying to get the moderators here to work for him.

halva

07-29-2006, 11:09 PM

An article, and discussion, in the German magazine "Focus" of Paul Crutzens's proposal for seeding the stratosphere with sulphur as a counter-measure against climate change:

http://focus.msn.de/wissen/wissenschaft/klima_aid_22818.html

jayreynolds

07-30-2006, 03:08 AM

Geo-engineering in vogue... from RealClimate: Climate science from climate scientists
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/06/geo-engineering-in-vogue.

excerpt: "There was an interesting article in the NY Times this week on possible geo-engineering solutions to the global warming problem. The story revolves around a paper that Paul Crutzen (Nobel Prize winner for chemistry related to the CFC/ozone depletion link) has written about deliberately adding sulphate aerosols in the stratosphere to increase the albedo and cool the planet - analogous to the natural effects of volcanoes. The paper is being published in Climatic Change, but unusually, with a suite of commentary articles by other scientists. This is because geo-engineering solutions do not have a good pedigree and, regardless of their merit or true potential, are often seized upon by people who for various reasons do not want to reduce greenhouse gas emissions...."

Read the thread through to the end and watch the reactions of these scientists to being asked questions.
I go away for six weeks and see you haven't grown in my absence, Wayne.

I read the whole enchilada at realclimate and found that the participants didn't buy into your chemtrail hoax.
Looks like the clock ran out and you were seen as just another conspiracy kook, Wayne.

Can't say I didn't tell you so.

What I told you years ago still stands, and you are caught in an endless GIGO feedback loop unable to accept even factual or logical feedbacks. Still promoting scammers and having to go back and admit it, too. Keep running around in circles, old bean, and you'll stay dizzy as ever.
Bye,
Jay

halva

07-31-2006, 12:28 AM

jayreynolds

08-01-2006, 03:49 AM

Reynolds was free to intervene in the debate at Real Climate if he wanted to, but he has learned to be more careful.

Other low-life scum tried to muscle in there and got short shrift.

Aesopian language may be the rule at Real Climate but that doesn't mean they feel any need for assistance from the likes of Reynolds.
Wayne, the facts of the matter are that I have been working as an marine engineer on a ship at sea for the past six weeks, with no internet access. No big conspiracy, never was. I'm just an ordinary guy who had the guts to take your people on and did so when I had the time.

You can expect similar absences in the future, along with a few weeks furlough between hitches. On my returns I will have a good opportunity to glimpse snapshots of your futile endeavors to persuade without fact or logic, which should continue to provide some amusement.

There never was any doubt of your failures, I predicted them years ago, and have been proven correct time afer time. I'm not really a prophet, maybe a sagacious pundit, and despite my own crusades against you, my motives were mainly pure, and an endeavor mainly to prevent others from falling into your traps, while tangentially providing you with information which could have been of use to you as well.

No amount of rhetoric, sophistry or chicanery can ever aid your cause because it is based on false premises, trust in the untrustworthy, and colossal ignorance. Those are not, however, the only lessons you have failed to learn. The root of the matter lies much deeper within your psyche. Though I haven't ferreted it out completely and it may forever escape me, until you rectify it you will continue to place yourself in situations where you become ensnared in hopeless conundrums and back yourself into corners with small windows of escape sans humiliation.
Most likely your problems lie in the distant past, and that is where you should search for solutions to build yourself a more hopeful future.

In the meantime:

Listen to me, Wayne.

Get over it.
Get out of it.
End the hoax.
Get on with your life.

All the best to all of you.
Jay

halva

08-01-2006, 08:58 AM

If you want to post here Reynolds, talk to BC, who loves you. I have put you back on ignore list and will talk to people on geoengineering/ "chemtrails" who are interested in contributing to knowledge and understanding, not in indulging sadistic fantasies of non-existent power.

You lost on this thread. I have outlasted you. You have lost your squad of groupies, who have realized that you are a hollow man. You cannot remove me from this thread. You cannot influence anything I do anywhere.

halva

08-01-2006, 08:31 PM

An article in the Greek mass-circulation "Eleftherotypia" (based on an article in "Der Spiegel") telling of Paul Crutzen's proposals for injection of sulphur into the stratosphere.

http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text/c=111,id=64984732

The "Real Climate" debate brought us into contact with scientists opposed to Crutzen's proposal because of the effects the sulphur would have on the acidity of the oceans. However, the preferable alternative solution they see includes resort to nuclear energy.

Is this an allied viewpoint? Certainly one thing we have in common is rejection of the "conservatism" of ecological organizations such as Greenpeace who are doing nothing to help the public come to grips with the whole geoengineering phenomenon and its relevance to climate change.

On the other hand the price we are being asked implicitly to pay for this alliance is support for nuclear energy. This is to put it crudely, because in reality there is no bargaining at the stage of initial dicussion of ideas.

jayreynolds

08-03-2006, 02:50 AM

You lost on this thread.
Hmmm, Let's see. On post #1 you challenged a debate over the 'reality' of chemtrails geoengineering.
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=2953&postcount=1
Where is your proof old man?
Three years and still waiting...........
Looks like you are down to whining about nuclear energy and bleating over sulfur.
The facts show you lost before you even began, old bean.....

I have outlasted you.
I'm still around, Wayne, so you have 'outlasted' nothing, except your own usefulness.

halva

08-03-2006, 06:23 AM

An article on chemtrails in the August-September number of Hellenic "Nexus":
http://www.nexushellas.gr

halva

08-06-2006, 12:20 AM

For whatever it's worth:
From the July 2006 Idaho Observer:
http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20060704.htm

Some might like to see reports like this as disinformation. I merely note that it seeks to encourage people to patronize existing political networks (contact senators, etc.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chemtrails:GAO report admits "chaff"

Lab report reveals much more

Last May a family in Iowa contacted the office of Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) to report the constant criss-crossing of "chemtrails" in the sky above their neighborhood. They received back from the senator’s office a General Accounting Office (GAO) report on "military chaff" and the material safety data sheet for aluminum-coated fiberglass fibers being spread—seven days a week for several hours each day—in the skies above their home.

The chaff is spread by pilots learning how to mask planes or send false radar images. It was reported that the military also has lead-based chaff, but that it is not being used at this time. Chaff was used by the military in Europe in WWII and, according to the GAO, had been used in training here at home since the 50s.

Once chaff reaches the ground, it breaks down into particles small enough to inhale. Though military spokespeople insist that chaff is not harmful, the GAO report concluded that health effects are unknown and more studies are needed.

Regardless, some members of this family are very sick. On May 23, after a hard rain the day before, they a noticed glittering substance and a pinkish-colored powder substance on the roof of their house. They then noticed the glittering substance on many surfaces, even the dashboard of the family car. Both substances were collected and sent to a lab for analysis.

Among the substances found to be in the samples were several that should simply not be there:

6 bacteria, including anthrax and pneumonia

9 chemicals including acetylcholine chloride

26 heavy metals including arsenic, gold, lead,mercury, silver, uranium and zinc

4 molds and fungi

7 viruses

2 cancers

2 vaccines

2 sedatives

Over the last several months, The IO has received a significant increase in chemtrail-related calls and letters. Most report a dramatic increase in chemtrail "spraying" activity in their areas; some are reporting the development of chronic flu-like symptoms, chronic fatigue and body aches that they have never before experienced.

We intend to expound upon this subject in greater detail—hopefully next month.

If you are seeing the relationship between accelerated chemtrail spraying in your area and symptoms among friends, family and members of your community, begin writing it down and send the information to us by mail or email. Note times, dates and specific symptoms. If you live near a military installation, expect that you are being "sprayed." You may want to contact your senator or rep and, politely (that is how you get the information you are seeking) request the forwarding of any information that may be available on the military chaff being used in your area. After obtaining relevant documents from your rep or senator, consider using it to obtain epidemiological data from your local health department.

From the July 2006 Idaho Observer:

jayreynolds

08-06-2006, 05:07 AM

For whatever it's worth:
From the July 2006 Idaho Observer:
http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20060704.htm
Among the substances found to be in the samples were several that should simply not be there:
2 cancers

Anyone who wants to give a doctor a good laugh needs to show them this one!

halva

08-08-2006, 12:54 AM

A truly charming climate-change-contrarian take on Crutzen (courtesy of BC):

Global Warming: The nutty professor
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_464778.html

Monday, August 7, 2006

Professor Paul Crutzen, who won a Nobel Prize in 1995 for his work on the hole in the ozone layer, should -- to put it as tactfully as possible -- work on the hole in his head.

Mr. Crutzen has dreamed up an "escape route" from global warming that only Al Gore could love. Crutzen, a researcher at the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany, is so "grossly disappointed" by man's seeming indifference to the junk science that blames humans for the Earth's temperature changes that he proposes to artificially cool the global climate.

He hopes to release particles of sulphur into the upper atmosphere -- using high-altitude balloons or heavy artillery shells -- to reflect sunlight and heat back into space, according to The Independent in the U.K.

That geo-engineering would increase the reflectance ("albedo") of the Earth, which should cause an overall cooling effect, he says.

The controversial proposal supposedly is being taken seriously by scientists because Crutzen has a proven track record in atmospheric research. And, after all, he did receive a Nobel Prize. But then again, so did former President Jimmy Carter.

And if that doesn't work, he believes giant reflecting mirrors in space, or laying reflecting film in deserts, or floating white plastic islands in the ocean mimicking the reflective effect of sea ice might work.

Which brings us to this question: If global warming is part of this orb's natural cycle, what global havoc might Professor Cruzen's proposals wreak?

foot_soldier

08-10-2006, 11:39 AM

halva

08-11-2006, 03:32 AM

Very comprehensive new article (http://www.airapparent.ca/library/full_text/opinion/sulphur_the_answer_to_climate_woes.htm) on Crutzen at Air Apparent.

halva

08-22-2006, 06:57 AM

NUTTY PROFESSORS?
W. Hall

(The proposal referred to is presented in Paul Crutzen’s “Albedo Enhancement by Stratospheric Sulphur Injections: A Contribution to Resolve a Policy Dilemma”)

Professor Paul Crutzen, who won a Nobel Prize in 1995 for his work on the hole in the ozone layer, should -- to put it as tactfully as possible -- work on the hole in his head.

Mr. Crutzen has dreamed up an "escape route" from global warming that only Al Gore could love. Crutzen, a researcher at the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany, is so “grossly disappointed” by man's seeming indifference to the junk science that blames humans for the Earth's temperature changes that he proposes to artificially cool the global climate.
He hopes to release particles of sulphur into the upper atmosphere -- using high-altitude balloons or heavy artillery shells -- to reflect sunlight and heat back into space, according to The Independent in the U.K.

That geo-engineering would increase the reflectance ("albedo") of the Earth, which should cause an overall cooling effect, he says.

The controversial proposal supposedly is being taken seriously by scientists because Crutzen has a proven track record in atmospheric research. And, after all, he did receive a Nobel Prize. But then again, so did former President Jimmy Carter.

And if that doesn't work, he believes giant reflecting mirrors in space, or laying reflecting film in deserts, or floating white plastic islands in the ocean mimicking the reflective effect of sea ice might work.

Which brings us to this question: If global warming is part of this orb's natural cycle, what global havoc might Professor Crutzen's proposals wreak?

(Editorial in Pittsburgh Tribune Review, August 7th 2006)

A confused question from an anthropogenic climate change “sceptic”.

There is another question that could equally well be asked: what would be the effect of acknowledgement that proposals like those made by Professor Crutzen are not just proposals? What if geoengineering programmes similar to those he has advocated are actually under implementation?

What if the “policy dilemma” he sees arising out of the fact that sulphate particles, soot and other forms of man-made and natural air pollution partially counteract global warming from greenhouse gases - means that governments - or one government, on behalf of other governments - have/has already decided to go ahead and fight one form of pollution (carbon dioxide) with another (sulphur dioxide)? On a global scale!

There is nothing new about such ideas. As far back as 1992 the National Academy of Science’s report “Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming” was saying that “the most effective global warming mitigation would be spraying of reflective aerosol compounds into the atmosphere by utilizing commercial, military and private aircraft”. The NAS Report argued that “aircraft could be used to maintain a cloud of dust in the atmosphere to reflect sunlight.” It reckoned that “emissions of 1 percent of the fuel mass of the commercial aviation fleet as particulates… would change the planetary albedo sufficiently to neutralize the effects of an equivalent doubling of CO2.”

If it were to be acknowledged that measures of such desperation are part of our contemporary reality, one result would surely be a total evaporation of public sympathy for the arguments of the “sceptics”. They would either have to start demanding that the outrageous and unjustifiable geoengineering practices be stopped, or they would be forced to concede that their categorization of global warming as a “non-problem” had been mistaken.

But it does not seem likely that we are going to see any such cornering of the sceptics. James Hansen, on behalf of mainstream climate science, has confessed that “we are not doing as well as we could in the global warming debate. ..We have failed to use the opportunity to help teach the public about how science research works. … We often appear to the public to be advocates of fixed adversarial positions. Of course, we can try to blame this on the media and the politicians, with their proclivities to focus on antagonistic extremes. But that doesn’t really help.” This is the advice of a scientist advocating not more but less politics.

On the other hand British Government scientific advisor Sir David King has described the climate change debate as a “pseudo-debate”. He asks: “Why does the debate on climate change continue to be reported?” “Part of the answer,” he says “is in the nature of the media itself, which likes to present two sides of a story.”

The media does NOT present the two sides of the geoengineering story. In media discourse one side of the geoengineering debate is never reported, or is reported only to be ridiculed. It is the side that consists of “conspiracy theorists”, who must on no account ever be taken seriously.

There is an either/or relationship between climate change “sceptics” and geoengineering “conspiracy theorists”. Scientific debate on climate change can have either one or the other as the interlocutor, as the “other viewpoint”. It cannot have both.

Paul Crutzen says in his “Albedo Enhancement” article that a large-scale climate modification programme of the kind he proposes could not be implemented without prior establishment of trust between scientists and the general public. This implies either an expectation of future success in persuading “sceptics” of the soundness of his “solution” (to a problem they do not recognize), or it means something rather vaguer: that he is a scientist who believes in the necessity of working with, rather than against, the public. And in this connection it should be acknowledged that he does quite clearly state in his article that “the very best would be if emissions of the greenhouse gases could be reduced so much that the stratospheric sulphur release experiment would not need to take place.” He deplores the fact that attempts to reduce greenhouse emissions have been unsuccessful. He cites statistics indicating that while stabilization of CO2 would require a 60-80% reduction in anthropogenic CO2 emissions, such emissions from 2000 to 2002 actually increased by 2%.

“Anthropogenically enhanced sulphate particle concentrations cool the planet, offsetting an uncertain fraction of the anthropogenic increase in greenhouse gas warming. But this fortunate coincidence is ‘bought’ at a substantial price. According to World Health Organization figures, the pollution particles lead to more than 500,000 premature deaths worldwide.” ….. “Through acid precipitation and deposition, sulphates also cause various kinds of ecological damage.”
Crutzen bases his case for the sulphate spraying programme on the argument that “if sizeable reductions in greenhouse gas emissions will not happen and temperatures rise rapidly, then climate engineering such as represented here is the only option available to rapidly reduce temperature rises and counteract other climatic effects.”

This could be interpreted as a warning that if society cannot free itself from the mentality that has led to the failure he describes, Crutzen can see no alternative to proceeding with implementation of his programme.

halva

08-22-2006, 07:00 AM

The feasibility of “trust”

How possible is it for one who believes aerosol seeding programmes to be not just drawing-board recommendations but a well entrenched planetary-scale reality, to “trust” a scientist who conforms to the official line of denying any such possibility? Or in any case ignoring it.

To start with, in replying to this, it may be worth speculating on the possible reasons for the more or less unanimous support given by scientists, including the most immediately implicated scientists, to the official story.. One of the relevant considerations is legality, the basic parameters for which were laid down a decade ago by, among others, Dan Bodansky:

Climate engineering proposals, including those aimed at screening out sunlight by injecting aerosols into the atmosphere to create cloud condensation nuclei and hence more clouds, by injecting dust into the stratosphere to screen out sunlight, by launching reflective balloons into the stratosphere, or by space mirrors or screens to act as a constant shield from the sun, possess such problematic features as the fact that this activity is intentional (and thus attracts greater scrutiny), has global effects, involves high uncertainties (with an indeterminate risk of something going wrong), and non-uniform effects (winners and losers result). These features of geoengineering raise several governance issues. The fact that geoengineering is an intentional activity with global effects raises the issue of who should decide whether to proceed.

Should all countries be able to participate in decision making since all will be affected and there will be both positive and negative impacts? Also, how should liability and compensation for damages be addressed?

Schemes to inject dust or release balloons into the atmosphere are the most problematic of the geoengineering proposals in terms of existing international law because the atmosphere above a country, including the stratosphere, is part of its air space. Nations have claimed this area and acted on their claims (e.g., by shooting down aircraft).

Geoengineering proposals involving the atmosphere thus could be viewed as an infringement and incursion on national territory.

Although existing international legal norms are generally permissive, they are unlikely to be a reliable guide to how the international community will react if geoengineering schemes are seriously proposed. Instead, there is likely to be a great deal of resistance. Absent some crisis, there will probably be a drive for the regulation of these activities, and perhaps for their prohibition, because it is very difficult to discern what the inadvertent consequences of such proposals might be.

The ultimate obstacles to geoengineering may not be technical or economic, but political.

If the ultimate obstacles to geoengineering activity are political, however indefensible or defensible the stance might otherwise be, it is quite logical for a scientist persuaded of the necessity of geoengineering to wait for the relevant political obstacles to be removed by politicians rather than pre-emptively meddled with by scientists. Crutzen’s whole approach in his article can be seen as a way of giving a nudge to politicians, to solve, belatedly – IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER – the scientific problem he outlines.

But who are the politicians that can solve the problem? Certainly not any politicians obliged, like it or not, to share the political arena with climate change contrarians. And with their their media support base.

halva

08-22-2006, 07:06 AM

The role of Edward Teller

Though acknowledging in his paper his scientific debt to researchers at the Lawrence Livermore laboratory - “so far the only ones who have modeled the stratospheric albedo modification scheme” - Crutzen does not appear similarly to recognize, and may not even have thought very much about, how deeply the politics of his stratospheric geoengineering proposal were similarly influenced by Livermore, and above all by the late Edward Teller, for many years its director.

Teller sets his own distinctive political seal on the stratospheric particulate seeding project in his popular article “Sunscreen for Planet Earth”.

“Society’s emissions of carbon dioxide may or may not turn out to have something significant to do with global warming--the jury is still out. As a scientist, I must stand silent on this issue until it’s resolved scientifically.” As a citizen, however, I can tell you that I’m entertained by the high political theater that the nation's politicians have engaged in over the last few months. It’s wonderful to think that the world is so very wealthy that a single nation--America--can consider spending $100 billion or so each year to address a problem that may not exist—”

Teller here situates himself unequivocally among the “sceptics”. This makes him very different from Crutzen. But not content with categorizing climate change as a possible non-problem, Teller also puts himself forward as the man to solve the non-problem.

“Contemporary technology offers considerably more realistic options for addressing any global warming effect than politicians and environmental activists are considering. Some of these may be far less burdensome than even a system of market-allocated emissions permits (i.e. Kyoto, W.H.). One particularly attractive approach involves diminishing slightly – by about 1 percent – the amount of sunlight reaching the earth’s surface in order to counteract any warming effect of greenhouse gases.”

“As the National Academy of Sciences commented a few years ago in a landmark report: ‘Perhaps one of the surprises of this analysis is the relatively low costs at which some of the geoengineering options might be implemented.’ …But for some reason, this option isn’t as fashionable as all-out war on fossil fuels and the people who use them.

If the politics of global warming require that ‘something must be done’ while we still don't know whether anything really needs to be done--let alone what exactly--let us play to our uniquely American strengths in innovation and technology to offset any global warming by the least costly means possible. While scientists continue research into any global climatic effects of greenhouse gases, we ought to study ways to offset any possible ill effects.

Injecting sunlight-scattering particles into the stratosphere appears to be a promising approach. Why not do that?”

Teller even injects into the very subtitle of his piece the same trickiness that pervades the text as a whole: “GLOBAL WARMING IS TOO SERIOUS TO BE LEFT TO THE POLITICIANS. HEREWITH A SCIENTIFIC SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM. (IF THERE IS A PROBLEM, THAT IS.)”

We see that Teller is not merely one of the pioneers of the stratospheric seeding idea ridiculed by one of his fellow contrarians at the beginning of this article. He is quite possibly also the architect of the whole conflictual scenario that we still see being enacted before us in 2006, three years after Teller’s death. But for which his – in American party-political terms – opponent Paul Crutzen has now been manoeuvred into the position where he, and by extension presumably Al Gore, must be the stool pigeons... ..

This certainly represents progress over the heyday of the superpower arms race between the US and the USSR, in which Teller was, again, a leading protagonist. In the nuclear warfare psychodramas of those days it was Republican politicians such as Richard Nixon, Caspar Weinberger, Ronald Reagan, not liberal democratic figures, that were cast as the madmen, or accomplices of madmen.

Admittedly, the inversion may well not be something deliberately planned. It may be just a side-effect of decisions to make weather and climate the business of military-oriented institutions such as the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, with the resulting extension into what were once civilian domains of the habits of secrecy and deception characteristic of military research, and above all of nuclear weapons development. Doubtless the conception of legality as an “optional extra” that we have suggested as an explanation for scientists’ apparent evasiveness over geoengineering reflects an expansion of such military assumptions and behaviour.

But the imposition of politically paralyzing contradiction is a Teller trademark, seen before at virtually every stage of his career, and certainly in the period of the Star Wars (Strategic Defense Initiative) anti-missile shield campaigning immediately preceding the collapse of the Soviet Union. The double-bind that Teller had devised at that time was presented to the then Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev by Ronald Reagan at the 1986 Reykjavik Summit. It took the form of an unexpected willingness to consider an agreement between the United States and the Soviet Union on total nuclear disarmament of the two superpowers. Support, in other words, for Gorbachev’s stated objective of bringing about universal nuclear disarmament by the year 2000. The only precondition attached to an American agreement on total abolition of the United States’ nuclear arsenal was that Gorbachev should, in return, accept the legitimacy of the United States’ Star Wars anti-missile shield.

Gorbachev’s response was that if nuclear missiles were to be abolished there could be no justification for supporting a programme whose purpose was to shoot them down. But for the international political establishment and its media this meant that it was the conservatism of the Soviets that had prevented a epoch-making political breakthrough at Reykjavik. Teller was one of the few members, possibly the only member, of the American power elite with whom Gorbachev never agreed to shake hands.

halva

08-22-2006, 07:10 AM

What is there to discuss?

What common basis is there for discussion, between climate scientists of goodwill and “civil society”? If – as it seems – there are no grounds for expectation that any scientist of importance is going to acknowledge that spraying of massive amounts of sulphate or some other form of poisonous aerosol into the atmosphere is anything more than a hypothetical future possibility, an “insurance policy”, to quote NAS president Ralph J. Cicerone, “if the world one day faces a crisis of overheating, with repercussion like melting icecaps, droughts, famines, rising sea levels and coastal flooding,” what demands can be made of climate scientists that might help to inspire the “trust” that Paul Curtzen says he wants to see?.
One measure that might help be would be a demonstration by climate scientists that they are capable of standing up to the ‘sceptics’: refusing to debate them on the media for example, (unless perhaps the ‘sceptics’ in question are of the sincere - and politically clueless - type that are also protesting about “chemtrails”).

Another step that might lead in the direction of “trust” would be by our raising the demand that questioning whether climate change is connected to human activity should be made illegal, (rather in the way that it is currently illegal in some otherwise civilized countries to question whether there were gas chambers at Auschwitz!)

This would be against freedom of speech, just as it is against freedom of speech to compromise scientists and subject them to regimes of quasi-military secrecy so that they feel unable to admit what they are doing, and/or what is being done, and so that they are reduced to sending out smoke-signals to “the politicians”. Our challenge to freedom of speech would be HONEST and OPEN. It would not be a sly, tricky, below-the-belt Edward-Teller type threat of the kind that is actually in force.. A legal ban on “climate change contrarianism” would at least level the playing field.. A muzzling capacity would be extended to both sides, not just to the contrarians.. The weapon of litigation would be as available for us to use against them as it is available now to the contrarians (and any other interested party) to employ against any geoengineering advocate tempted to throw in his lot with the “conspiracy theorists” and admit that, yes, geoengineering is not hypothetical. We, and our friends, are doing it, and proposing it! Sue us!

Sir David King is on record for saying that climate change is a bigger threat than terrorism. He is still confronted on that statement by aggressive journalists, even today when it has become known that he sees nuclear power as part of “the solution” rather than “the problem”. Let his perception be systematized. If climate change is a bigger threat than terrorism then climate change contrarians are the moral and political equivalent of terrorist sympathizers. Let them be treated as such!

Anti-aviation campaigners

One possible focus for discussion between civil society and climate scientists would be the current campaign launched by the European Union and some ecological groups (e.g. Friends of the Earth) against the environmental cost of aircraft emissions. This campaign has included some very militant sounding assertions, for example by Friends of the Earth International vice-chair Tony Juniper, who has said : “Aviation is a rogue sector and its environmental impact is out of control. Climate change is the most urgent challenge facing humanity and yet aviation policy is doing the exact opposite of what is needed.”

Certainly readers of the NAS report on “Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming” will agree that if “spraying of reflective aerosol compounds into the atmosphere by utilizing commercial, military and private aircraft” has actually been implemented as “the most effective global warming mitigation”, then it may be more than justified to describe aviation as a “rogue sector”. But this is not what Juniper, and other anti-aviation campaigners, mean. What they mean is more or less the precise opposite. It has to do not with the use of aviation emissions to mitigate global warming. It has to do with the role of aircraft emissions as net contributors to global warming. Anti-aviation campaigners are worried about aircraft as producers of greenhouse gases. They want to see aviation being included in the European Union’s emissions trading scheme. They want to abolish tax exemptions on aviation fuel so as to put an end to the current unfair advantages of air travel over other more ecologically sustainable forms of transport such as railways.

The argumentation of anti-aviation campaigners nowhere intersects with, interacts with, or shows any consciousness of, the argumentation of geoengineering advocates. Geoengineering advocates and anti-aviation campaigners argue past each other, ignoring each other. And most importantly, they base their arguments on diametrically opposite conclusions about the effects of aircraft emissions.. Geoengineering advocates posit a net cooling effect; anti-aviation campaigners a net warming effect of aircraft “contrails” on the earth’s atmosphere.. In both cases these conclusions correspond to the needs of political agendas.

Almost everything published in the mainstream media on the environmental effects of air travel is framed in a disingenuous tone that arouses suspicion. Which of the two sides of the non-debate between geoengineering advocates and anti-air-travel campaigners is more guilty of distorting scientific fact.? If anything the anti-aircraft campaigners seem more guilty, despite the fact that – or perhaps because of the fact that – their political objectives seem less unobjectionable, and even praiseworthy..

What is one to make of the following?

“The CO2 emitted from aircraft engines is not the only way that that aviation affects climate. Aircraft also affect climate through their contrails, the long trails of water vapour and ice that form in an aircraft’s wake and which can persist for several hours. Contrails trap heat in the atmosphere by reflecting infrared radiation emitted from the Earth’s surface.

In 1999 the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change calculated that contrails from the world fleet of 12,000 civil airliners contribute as much to global warming as the CO2 their engines pour out as they burn jet fuel.

But global air traffic is growing by around 3.5 per cent per year, and many of those extra flights are long-haul, high-altitude, contrail-forming journeys. So by 2050 contrails will be having a great deal more of an impact on global warming than the CO2 emissions from aircraft engines.
Contrails could be eliminated if aircraft reduced their altitude from about 33,000 feet to between 24,000 feet and 31,000 feet, depending on the weather.

But this would come at a price: lower altitude means denser air and higher air resistance, so planes have to burn more fuel. And this means more CO2 emissions, which would apparently negate any benefits from eliminating contrails.

But according to researchers at Imperial College, London, the idea may work after all. “It seems counterintuitive”, admits Robert Noland. But Noland and his colleagues have calculated that if planes flew low enough to leave no contrails behind, their fuel consumption would increase by only four percent, boosting CO2 emissions.”

Does this convoluted argumentation by anti-aviation writers reflect anything more than political determination to oppose the geoengineering approach to climate change without ever admitting that it exists or has ever been proposed? What is the scientific status of arguments (e.g. from NASA) that cirrus cloud cover generated from aircraft emissions are responsible for increasing average surface temperatures in the United States over a twenty-year period?

Given that it is one of the key charges of the climate change “skeptics” that liberal activists in general and ecologists in particular distort science in the pursuit of unacknowledged political objectives, would not the head-on confrontational approach of “conspiracy theorists”, particularly if backed by agreed scientific facts, be a more effective response to these charges than a more “discreet” approach that relies on possible manipulation of scientific data?

The burden of proof

As a final point for empowerment of currently excluded “conspiracy theorists”, it is often argued that the burden of proof for any assertion that geoengineering programmes are something more than proposals lies on those who make the claim. “Agenti incumbit probatio” (the burden of proof rests on the accuser). There is a surface plausibility to this, but on more careful consideration it should become clear that there is not any self-evident single “accuser” in these controversies. . In their way all parties are accusers. Paul Crutzen is an accuser when he implies that because of “taboos” his sulphate seeding programme is not being given the serious consideration it deserves. His accusation enables “us” to request that he prove his programme is not being given such consideration. (What more serious consideration could there be than actual implementation?) Climate change contrarians are being accusers when they caricature the proposals of Crutzen as those of a “nutty professor”. Can they prove that Crutzen’s sulphate seeding proposals are disproportionate to the seriousness of the situation he is attempting to deal with?

All in all the argument here is for the adoption of an offensive stance, a concerted attempt to become “the other side” of the debate, displacing the “sceptics” as interlocutors with mainstream climate science. Can we successfully do this?

22nd August 2006

The Cosmic Fluke

08-24-2006, 09:51 AM

Hi Board,
I came here today specifically in hopes to find some convincing arguments on Chemtrail debunking, I used a Google search for chem trails debunked and voila! There was Jay Reynolds, complete with website and facts galore.

Or, not.

Actually, I felt like I was watching Fox News. (ie "There were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and Iraq did have ties to al Qaeda." Just say it and it is so.)

I live in Pagosa Springs, CO and used to live in Aspen, CO (and no, I don't know the guy accused of attempting to scam people for funds to investigate chemtrails, and I don't know whether or not he's scamming, but freely admit he could be. I'll also say that there are a lot of kooks drawn into this whole debate, on both sides apparently, which serve to muck things up even more and discredit the entire topic.). All in all, I've lived in these mountains since 1986.

Despite what Jay Reynolds might say to the contrary, these chemtrails weren't always here. In Aspen, I don't remember seeing them. Here in Pagosa, we get sprayed regularly. For the first year I lived here, I just wrote it off in my head, "well, if something were going on, someone would have said or done something about it, it must be normal, probably weather related..." that kind of thing.

I didn't hear about "Chemtrails" until a couple years later, when I had finally determined that something was indeed going on. We live under an area that gets a lot of commercial jet traffic. You don't have to wait too long to see a jetliner overhead on it's way from Denver to Las Vegas, or Los Angeles, they're as regular as the bus. They have normal contrails, the kind we all grew up seeing. These were clearly different, and many times the chemtrail jets would be flying in the sky at the same time as normal jets.

One by one, my theories on what conditions might be causing these chemtrails were eliminated; season, time of day, temperature, altitude... they broke all the rules I'd set for them, still not willing to believe something was going on.

Nope, these are sprays, not exhaust fumes.

What a brilliant strategy! Hiding things, literally, in broad daylight. Attach the label "conspiracy" and automatically most people will immediately scoff at it.

And Jay Reynolds! Wow! I'm so glad to have run into your website (with all the broken links and it's hard to read color scheme!), not to mention your incredibly offensive personality, you're as hideous as O'Reilly, Scarborough, AND Hannity put together!

Your tactics operate under the assumption that if it's printed in the newspapers, or if a "scientist" says it, people will believe it absolutely. That's how things work these days though, it seems. "Scientists" told us for years that there was no global warming, newspapers print all kinds of lies.

Thanks for being the voice of chemtrail debunkers, Mr. Reynolds. It seems I can trust my own eyes after all.

Chemtrails are real.

halva

08-24-2006, 01:41 PM

This forum is not responsibly moderated and unless you really are trying to encourage Reynolds to come back here so that you can argue with him, you would be better off talking about chemtrails (in the way that you are talking about them) at
http://gastronamus.proboards27.com/index.cgi?board=aerosol

My aim has been to get Reynolds to change his stupid habits, not provoke him into continuing in them.

The Cosmic Fluke

08-25-2006, 10:00 AM

"his stupid habits" isn't provocation?
Hypocrite.
Let me tell you something straight out, you will never change his opinions or habits. It's nothing but the thinking of an over-inflated ego to think you could. It's never happened on an online message board before. People come here with eyes wide shut, fingers jammed firmly into their ears and mouths wide open.
In the meantime, no matter what side of this issue you're on, don't fucking tell me what to do. This isn't your forum, and I wasn't replying to anything you had said. Stick it WAY up there, pal.

Inhale2theChief

08-25-2006, 12:10 PM