It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature [Archive] - Page 28

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 06:18 AM

Well, there are these days when some among us appear to be so lacking of processing skills to comprehind the big picture on religion, god, and the natural order that they would serve better to get a big sign that says: "I am stupid, and I can't help it."

When Revelations takes up such objections to the Jewish version of god that it predicts 3/4 of them will die on the 33rd parallel, should one conclude that to be sacriligious?

I don't think so. What is sacriligious is stupidity that fails to recognize what is of a man designed god for control and riches, and one that is more natural for all to accept.

Halva, go make yourself one of those signs and have it laminated, cause you need it frequently.

I does not take a rocket scientist to see the similarities between what John Forrestal [who the DOE-HQ building is named after in DC] predicted for the Jews to be pushed into the Med., and the similar thing of Jesus and his followers to foretell the Jews would be taken up into the volcano clouds of their stupid version of god. Same two outcomes, both transcent time and point to the same central lie.

It is not even difficult to figure out that the same tricks the rich Royal Family of David pulled to drag the US into WWII to get their money back from Hitler, are the very same money games being played now to get the US attacked by the Arabs and have the US blow up the Arabs for the Rich Jews.

The game is money makes right, by the issue that we bought the weapons to make might makes right. The real evil empire is this money system to force false issues upon the rest of the world. Even force chemtrails on everyone, cause they didn't have to ask, and made up reasons for false wars of religion. Religions that happen to point to the fact that the Jewish religion is false, in the very same way Jesus and his followers pointed to in Revelation.

Nothing new, same group of lies. Except one thing----the end is near.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 06:25 AM

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0%2C1413%2C36~53~2739235%2C00.html

Ozone decline stuns scientists

By Katy Human and Kim McGuire
Denver Post Staff Writers

Solar flares and frigid temperatures are believed to be working with human
chemicals to eat away at the protective ozone layer above the North Pole,
surprising scientists who have been looking for evidence that the planet's ozone
layer is healing.

The ozone layer protects Earth from dangerous ultraviolet radiation, which
can cause skin cancer.

Last winter, Arctic ozone declined more precipitously than ever in the upper
atmosphere, probably because of violent storms on the sun's surface, one team
reports today in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

And in recent days, a lower layer of ozone has undergone an extraordinary
thinning because of a level of bitter cold (about minus-110 degrees Fahrenheit)
rarely seen in the Arctic and manmade chemicals, researchers said. One Colorado
scientist has raced north to document the event, expected to sputter out
within days.

The two unusual findings have experts worried that they don't fully
understand the dynamics of ozone depletion.

"I don't think we can be confident about whether or not we're seeing an ozone
recovery or if we're attributing recovery to the correct causes," said Cora
Randall, an atmospheric scientist at the University of Colorado.

Randall and her colleagues studied a dramatic and unexpected drop in
upper-level ozone levels last winter. A few months before the decline, massive solar
storms had blasted high-energy particles toward Earth. Randall suspects the
energetic particles helped create chemicals called nitrogen oxides, which are
known ozone-gobblers.

Solar storms are natural, she said, but some scientists suspect humans also
played a role in creating conditions that contributed to the historic ozone-
depletion event.

Human-emitted chemicals are largely responsible for the massive ozone hole
that has formed at lower levels in the Arctic atmosphere in recent days, experts
said. There, unusually low temperatures are triggering reactions in which
manmade chemicals quickly devour ozone, they said.

"Something like this only happens once every 20 years," said Russ Schnell,
with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in Boulder.

His agency deployed Andrew Clarke to a lab in Greenland, located under the
area of sky where the ozone layer is diminishing. There, Clarke is lofting
testing equipment into the sky with giant balloons. It will be weeks or months
before the results are understood, he said.

stuart_allsop

03-03-2005, 07:17 AM

Simon Stuart (who happens to have the same last name as UK Royal blood folks from the Jewish line of David's throne) and his faked up views on religion:Really? You mean "Allsop" is a royal Hebrew bloodline? Wow! Thanks for the info. I've never been able to trace my genealogy back that far, but I'm flattered to know that you think I'm directly related to David and Jesus! How did you come up with that?

Revelations has many quotations from Jesus and his followers views.Not relevant: You said that Jesus WROTE Revelations, not that he was QUOTED in Revelations. Big difference. Once again you are proven wrong on your religous claims.

Jesus was of the family of David Via his mom, Irrelevant under Jewish law. Descent through the mother accounted for nothing. It was the blood line of Joseph that was important, and his adoption of Jesus as his LEGAL son that gave Jesus the legal right to be considered as coming from the line of David. In other words, Jesus had claims to that title through BOTH parents. Mary gave him the direct bloodline claim, but that had no legal validity, adn Joseph gave him the legal claim, but that had no direct bloodline validity.

Once again, your ignorance of Hebrew customs and Bible history is glaringly obvious.

Jesus was well traveledYes he was, but there is no evidence that he ever went furhter afield than the borders of what is today called Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, and Egypt.

...and even seems to have gone to the UK to look at family tin mines.Nope. Wrong. There is not even the slightest shred of evidence to support such a claim, and neither is there any evidence to sugges that his family had any involvement with the metals business. Under Hebrew custom, if that had been the case he would NOT have been a apprenticed as carpenter, but rather a metalsmith. Jews ALWAYS apprentice their children to the trade that will provide the highest income.

He knew the metals business.Nope. No evidence. He was a carpenter, not a metalsmith or businessman.

He likely also knew the volcano make rich mining areas for gold and other metals and minerals.Jesus makes no mention of volcanoes at any point in anything he said.

Jesus was given life by the Magi's acceptance and knowledge of the true elements of religion.Nope. The Magi visited briefly to pay their respects to a king, and were never seen or heard from again. At that time Jesus was about two years old, and could hardly have been receptive to anything the Magi might have tried to teach him. As devout Jews, his parents would not have entertained any non-Jewish religous doctrine. Part of his family was closley involved with the temple, and Jesus demonstrated his vast knowledge and acceptance of Jewish religous principles in the Temple on numerous occasions, so much so that he thoroughly impressed the Temple leaders and priests. No non-=Jewish teachings would have been accepted or entertained, or indeed even listened to! It was [and still is] Jewish custom to put ones hands over ones ears and loudly shout "Blasphemer!" if anyone in the Temple makes even the slightest hint of a statement that contradicts Judaism. On the exat contrary, Jesus had the priests and Sanhedrin sitting at his feet, listening to him as he spoke.

Exatly, totally, diametrically opposite to what you claim... !!! BLASPHEMER !!!!

Moses god included mother nature factors in the form of the Mt. Sinai volcano near Midian. Wrong on two counts: My Sinai is notwhere near Midian, and it is not a volcano.

It was this alchemy from the volcanos the Egypians feared would come to kill them, There are no volcanoes in Egypt.

that Moses attempted to shape into god.Wrong. God did the shaping. And Moses had to destroy the god that the Israelites atempted to make whiel Moses was up on the mountain.

Moses and his brother in law JethroSo you are claiming that Jethro was incestuous? Or are you just ignorant of who Jethro was? Hint: Jethro was not Moses brother. Jethro was a high priest of God who lived in the desert near Midian, and who became Moses Father in Law when Moses ran away from Egypt after murdering an Egyptian, and married one of Jethro's daughters.

If you plan to start a hoax about the Bible, then you really ought to get your fax straight first. Next thing you know, you'll be telling us that Mt. Sinai release HF into the atmosphere, along with Titanium Oxide, thus making acid rain that wiped out the cedars of Lebanon and left stains on the roofs of the Israelite tents....

Even to gather manna from the metals fallout in the volcanic plume.Since when is "metals fallout" a good nutrient for humans, and something that you can live on for half your life with no ill effects? What kind of metals are you ranting about?

The message in revelations is a strong one that predicts the end of the Jews by fire,No, it predicts the end of the entire PLANET by fire, not just the Jews.

... and such a prediction only comes against those that tell great lies and cause great deceptions.No, it comes against ALL OF MANKIND.

LIke I said before, Jimbo, if you want to start a brand new religous hoax, then you are going to have to do a MUCH better job of getting your facts straight, first.

Boomer Chick

03-03-2005, 09:01 AM

Excellent, Yaak! THANKS!!!

BC :D

stuart_allsop

03-03-2005, 10:54 AM

Other critical points came down the line with the Throne of David and the establishment of the rich Royal Family descendents, which over the millennia gained much monetary power.He he he... nice try! But history says that you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Ever heard of a guy called Sennacherib? He kind of made sure that David's descendants ended up with nothing.... Ever heard of a place called Babylon? And the empire that goes along with it? They kind of had a hand in wiping out all of Israel and it's wealth, don't you think? But even before that, ever heard of how the various rulers of the Divided Kingdom squandered all the wealth accumulated by David and Solomon, just to save their sorry butts from gettting whupped in most cases?

You sure do have a lot to learn about the history of Israel, if you hope to build a new hoax based on it, Jimbo! So far you are batting zero, and exposing your gross ignorances of Middle Eastern history!

But please don't stop! We are having SUCH fun giggling at your antics here! This is even better than your HF scam! I can hardly wait to see what hilarious item you'll come up with next!

Moses used this concept for his invention of Judaism and the beginnings of the Torah. In these times god was invented by man for man's purposes and it is still largely that way today. BZZZZZZTT!!!! Wrong again! Judaism was not even used as a term until after the fall of the Northern kingdom, hundreds of years after Moses was already dead.

Other critical points came down the line with the Throne of David and the establishment of the rich Royal Family descendents, which over the millennia gained much monetary power. This power would come to consolidate around the establishment of Catholicism and the Pope of the Roman Empire, which was largely run by Jewish persons in the beginning. And this Royal Line come to control most of the big money in Europe and even make the laws via the Church they controlled. The biggest game in all of Europe was that of religion and they pretty much dictated to those in power what the laws were to be and it catered to the Jewish Royal money system. So the Jews run the Catholic churhc, huh? I guess that is why the Jews and Catholics were at each other's throats for so many centuries.... Or was that all just a farce, designed to disguise the Jewish control that wnet on behind the scenes? Yeah, that must be it...

The real story, that man made god for his purposes and needs, Nope, sorry. NIce try, but God does not agree with you. He says that he made you, not the other way around. ANd he also says that any time you stop blaspheming Him and rejecting Him, you'll be absolutely welcome back into the fold. He just wishes you would do it sooner, rather than later, becuase time is running out. But it's your call: He won't force you to love Him or even to accept Him. You have to do that by yourself.

Moses set up his version of religion to make the Jews a closed society and use their religion to promote their wealth and power in the world.Sorry, but there were no Jews at the time of Moses, nor for several hundred years afterwards.

This is exactly what we see happening today, as the truth on religion and what God is and is not is being highly manipulated. Very true, and God says that he would like you to stop doing that manipulating, right now. Or not, as you please. Your call. But then, please do be prepared to report to Him and explain your actions.

letxa2000

03-03-2005, 11:05 AM

I didn't realize I was still the topic of discussion here.

BoomerChick: He didn't want to ban Letxa for the reason I gave previously, even though we took a vote of the members and it was overwhelmingly in favor of getting rid of him.

I don't recall any vote. I remember a mob mentality of a few people opining that I should be banned, but anything remotely as organized as a vote? If it happened, I don't remember it. Perhaps it happened in an area of the board not everyone had access to?

Even so, the moderators (or Thermit or whoever made the decision) should respect and enforce the rules they have instituted regardless of what the mob wants. A total lack of character and backbone was demonstrated that day by the mob that wanted to linch a person with an unpopular view--a similar lack of character was demonstrated by the moderators who didn't have enough testicular fortitude to stand up to the mob and say, "Hey, he's not breaking any rules!"

And, I may repeat, that it was not because of Letxa's flaming, for indeed he was an almost perfect gentleman, but it was his outright and total denial of the possibility of chemtrails and disrespect of everyone on our board who were dedicated to gathering information that caused his demise.

I didn't disrespect any person at CTC. I did show contempt for the unscientific belief in chemtrails, but I certainly didn't disrespect any person--unless that person was unable to separate him or herself personally from the concept of chemtrails in which case that person was incapable of distinguishing him or herself from the theory--which is a personal problem that person had, not any disrespect on MY part.

But basically you're right... I wasn't banned because I broke any rules. I was banned because of my unpopular beliefs on a board that censors opposing beliefs.

stuart_allsop

03-03-2005, 11:12 AM

And we can even see the Jews of the Exodus using the gold manna effect when they cooked a calf using gold jewry in their cooking fire to add the gold ions to the meat. .Hoo boy... koookier and kookier! You are REALLY reaching, aren't you, Jimbo?

They didn't COOK a calf with gold ions! They made an IDOL of a calf, a small statue, out of their gold jewelry, which is what they had learned to do in Egypt.
It's a pretty f---a---r stretch to get from melting gold jewelry and utensils, and molding it into a calf shape, over to kooking up gold ions into meat!

But I'm wondering why you didn't throw some flouride in there, for good measure? I guess you just couldn't figure out how to weave flouride in to this scam, could you? Too bad. It would have sounded so much more believable if you could have thrown in flouride and acid rain killing the people as they ate their golden ionized meaty calf....

We can even see that the proverbial Garden of Eden was ajacent Mt. Ararat, the world's largest land mass volcano.Last time I checked, Turkey is a LONG way from Iraq! Arrarat is in modern day Turkey, and the Garden of Eden was in modern day Iraq. By the way, Ararat is not a mountain: it is a RANGE of mountains.

How do you manage it, Jimbo? It must take REAL stupidity to ensure that you get every single point in your hoax so badly WRONG!

Now, if persons like Halva really knew religon, even knew a tiny bit of science or chemistry----Well, Halva certainly know an awful lot more about religion and chemistry than you do! That is crystal clear! But then a few levels higher up, you have Jay, Letxa, Yaak, Boomer and me. We know a HUGE amount about religion and chemistry, which is why we are able to expose every single one of your new scams, and nip it in the bud before it takes hold. Too bad you have to deal with folks who have a REAL knowledge of thse things, Jimbo.

But actually you should THANK us for the work we do! We shoot down all the trash from all of your scams, so that any scam that you might eventually manage to launch is going to have a much better chance out there in the real world. If it wasn't for us, the entire planet would be laughing at you already!

Then again, maybe it is...

jayreynolds

03-03-2005, 11:45 AM

Charged particles from the storms triggered chemical reactions that increased the formation of extra nitrogen in the upper stratosphere, some 20 miles up. Nitrogen levels climbed to their highest in at least two decades.

The spinning vortex allowed nitrogen gas to sink from the high stratosphere, some 20 miles up, to lower altitudes.

Wrong. The NOx wasn't formed in the stratosphere and subducted twenty miles down lower, it was formed twenty miles higher, in the mesosphere, then was drawn down into the stratosphere!

Ok, the above is an example of how journalists often times get stuff wrong. When people read the wrong information, then repeat it, the effect gets multiplied. The remedy is to do what I did when I read the article this morning, go to the source document
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-03/uoca-h2s022805.php

I'll admit this isn't the actual paper, but it is the press release put out by Dr. Randall, and i'm sure since there is a discrepancy, her version is more reliable. Here is what it says:

"Winds in the upper part of a massive winter low-pressure system that confines air over the Arctic region, known as the polar stratospheric vortex, sped up in February and March 2004 to become the strongest on record, she said. The spinning vortex allowed the nitrogen gases, believed by the team to have formed at least 20 miles above the stratosphere as a result of chemical reactions triggered by energetic particles from the sun, to descend more easily into the stratosphere."

Twenty miles above the stratosphere is well into the mesosphere, and yes, it's quite logical that it took place there, because it is in the mesosphere where gases begin to be ionized and energetic enough to form the NOx compounds. After the NOx was formed in the mesosphere, it was then drawn down by the vortex into the upper stratosphere.

The above is an excellent example of how journalists simply can't always be trusted to get the story straight. That's why you have Jay Reynolds, of course!

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 12:19 PM

http://english.sdaglobal.org/evangelism/arch/redsea.htm

After researching the route that the Israelites might have taken in their exodus from Egypt, Ron Wyatt found that the Biblical description fitted perfectly with a deep gorge called Wadi Watir. The book of Exodus explains how God led the children of Israel, "not through the way of the land of the Philistines although that was near...but God led the people about through the way of the wilderness of the Red Sea." (Exodus 13:17, 18). Here we find a vast, open desert area. Then in Exodus 14:1, 2 God tells them to turn off the highway, which Ron found led to a canyon now called Wadi Watir. The Bible records the reaction of Pharaoh when he was informed of their deviation from the highway, (Exodus 14:3), "They are entangled in the land, the wilderness hath shut them in." Wadi Watir is a long deep canyon which fits this description perfectly.

Traditionally it is believed that the Red Sea crossing took place on the Gulf of Suez. However, there are no mountains to be found there. The area is completely flat, unlike the Biblical description. The Gulf of Suez was also a popular site because it is traditionally believed that Mt. Sinai is on the Sinai Peninsula. Again the Bible tells us differently, (Galations 4:25), "Mt. Sinai in ARABIA". After several miles Wadi Watir opens out to a large beach area, on the western coast of the Gulf of Aquaba. The only beach area along the Gulf of Aquaba, that would have been large enough to accommodate the estimated two million people and their flocks. The Israelites were prevented from traveling north by the presence of an Egyptian military fortress. Indeed to the north of the mouth of Wadi Watir we find an ancient fortress, could this have been the place referred to in the Bible as, Migdol, (Exodus 14:2). To the south the mountains extend all the way down to the sea, thus preventing any further passage. Of course they could not turn around and retrace their steps as the Egyptian army was pursuing them. God had brought them to a point where only He could deliver them, "And Moses said unto the people, fear not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which He will show you today, for the Egyptians whom you have seen today, you shall see them no more again forever...and the LORD caused the sea to go back by strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left." (Exodus 14:13, 21, 22).

Ron found a column lying face down on the shore. On the Saudi side he found another exactly the same with an inscription in Archaic Hebrew that read, "MIZRAIM (Egypt), SOLOMON, EDOM, DEATH, PHARAOH, MOSES, YAHWEH." He believed that they were erected by Solomon to commemorate the crossing of the Red Sea. The inscriptions on the column found lying on the shore were eroded away. The authorities have since set it in concrete.

On diving down to the sea bed, in 1978, Ron Wyatt and his two sons found and photographed numerous coral encrusted chariot parts. Several dives since then have revealed more and more evidence. One of his finds included an eight spoke chariot wheel, which Ron took to the director of Egyptian Antiquities, Dr. Nassif Mohammed Hassan. After examining it he immediately announced it to be of the eighteenth dynasty, dating the exodus to 1446 BC. When asked how he knew this Dr. Hassan explained that the eight spoke wheel was only used during this period, the time of Ramases II and Tutmoses (Moses). Chariot boxes, horse and human skeletal remains, four, six and eight spoke chariot wheels all lie as a silent testimony to the miracle of the parting of the Red Sea.

Perhaps most amazing of all, is the presence of an under water pathway. Along the length of the the Gulf of Aquaba, depths reach to an average ofone mile and the Egyptian shoreline drops steeply under water at a slope of about 45 degrees. If the Israelites had tried to have crossed anywhere else along the Gulf of Aquaba they would have been faced with an extremely steep drop to about one mile. With all of their animals and wagons, the task would have been practically impossible. Only here, on the shores of Nuweiba, does the 'pathway' drop off at a gradual slope of one in fourteen, to a depth of just over 850 meters. On the Saudi side the slope climbs again at a slope of one in ten. The Bible describes it as, "Away in the sea and a " path in the mighty waters" (Isaiah 43:16, 17) The distance from Nuweiba to Saudi Arabia is about eight miles. And the width of the under water bridge is estimated to be 900 meters.

Aaron Sen has dived on several occasions at this site, and can testify to the validity of the discovery. In March 1998, he photographed the remains of a four spoke chariot wheel, and has taken up human bones of which there are 'dozens' scattered on the sea bed. One specimen was taken to the Department of Osteology at Stockholm University, and tested, proving to be a human, male, right side femur. Although it cannot be dated, it was evidently from ancient times. The man's height was estimated at 165-170cm, and the bones had been replaced by minerals. Tiny amounts of coral were growing off the mineral replacement. Aaron has seen the drop off of the southern end of the underwater land bridge. He has also seen a pathway that the Israelites would have cleared in order to cross the Red Sea, leading from the shore, descending into the sea. The Israelites would have had to push the stones and rocks aside in order to allow access for their wagons.

The Exodus Revealed: A fantastic new video documenting the archaeological evidence of the Exodus and the Red Sea Crossing. Featuring the underwater pathway across the Gulf of Aquaba, and some of the chariot parts also discovered there, the video is an excellent witness of Mount Sinai in Saudi Arabia, and the Red Sea Crossing. Showing evidence of a 3,800 year old Hebrew presence in the Nile Delta in Egypt and documenting Egyptian records of the Hebrew enslavement, professional archaeology, scholars and scientists make an entertaining and professional video. In my opinion, it's one of the best videos on the Discoveries yet. Available online from http://goccc.com/exrevvid.html

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 12:23 PM

http://www.bibleplus.org/discoveries/redsea.htm

One of the greatest miracles wrought by God was His rescue of His "entrapped" people by leading them through the Red Sea.

After throwing Egypt into chaos by virtue of the 10 plagues that had been poured out on them, the Egyptians begged the Israelites to go.

The Israelites were gathered at Succoth, a common staging point for Egyptian armies prior to heading north for battle. Moses knew well the spot and gathered his people there. It was just north of the western arm of the Red Sea known today as the Gulf of Suez. There was a canal there at that time between the Mediterranean Sea and the Gulf of Suez, as well as a bridge over it.

Moses had been told by God to bring the people to Mt. Sinai in the land of Midian in Arabia, which was on the other side of what we now call the Gulf of Aqaba arm of the Red Sea (Exodus 3:12). Thus he did not take them on what was known then as the Way of the Land of the Philistines, a more direct route, but took them on a highway known as the Way of the Wilderness of the Red Sea. This highway circled down through what was called the Wilderness of the Red Sea (which we now call the Sinai peninsula) and then continues around the upper tip of the Gulf of Aqaba.

About 2/3rds of the way around this peninsula, God told Moses to lead the people off the highway and towards the Red Sea. (Exodus 14:1-3)

At this point, the Israelites left the Way of Wilderness of the Red Sea and entered into a canyon leading directly to the Gulf of Aqaba arm of the Red Sea.

As they were still in Egyptian controlled territory, their every move was watched by military lookout posts on the surrounding hills and probably flashed via mirror relay back to Pharaoh (see photo of the ruins of such a lookout on right side below). When Pharaoh realized the Israelites were hemmed in by the mountains and the sea, he decided to pursue them (Exodus 14:3)..

Upon arriving at the Red Sea, the Israelites found themselves on a enormous beach. This beach was 4.5 miles long by 2 miles wide (7 km x 3 km). However, (as recorded in the writings of Josephus) the mountains closed in around the beach and there was no apparent escape route. At the north end of the beach an Egyptian military garrison was stationed in a fort. You can see the fort building in the next two photos. Locals from a nearby Bedouin village still draw water from the well inside the buildings.

The Gulf of Aqaba is around 5,000 feet deep (1,500 m) for most of its length with a steep 45 degree slope to the bottom. However, on the side where the Israelites were trapped was the canyon they had just come through. Water rushing off the land soon after the flood had carried with it a tremendous amount of sand which had been deposited halfway out into the Gulf. Miraculously, a similar canyon had produced a tremendous deposit of sand originating from the other side. The location of both canyons was such that the sand reached each other and formed a land bridge of about 6/10ths of a mile wide (900 m) by 8 miles (13 km) long through the deep between the two sides. The slope both up and down on this land bridge was a gentle 6 degrees.

But even then, at the deepest point, the land bridge was around 1,000 feet (300 m) deep. So given that it would take around 400 psi of pressure to hold back water 1,000 feet high, how could the Israelites survive such as wind as they passed through?

Exodus 15:8 says:

"By the blast of your nostrils the waters piled up.
The surging waters stood firm like a wall;
the deep waters congealed in the heart of the sea."

To congeal means to turn from a liquid to a solid such as from water to ice. Moses raised his rod over the sea and God caused a strong east wind to blow, quickly freezing the water into a thick mass of ice on either side of what became a channel or trough over this land bridge.

Exodus 14:21, 22 says:

"Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and all that night the Lord drove the sea back with a strong east wind and turned it into dry land. The waters were divided, and the Israelites went through the sea on dry ground, with a wall of water on their right and on their left."

Then God caused the wind to cease and the Israelites passed through on dry (and perhaps frozen?) ground.

After the Israelites reached the other side, God removed the cloud blocking the Egyptians and they pursued the Israelites, going into the trough. Moses stretched forth his rod over the sea again. The ice which was thinnest at the western side of the trough began to melt, sending water cascading into it. The water rushed into the channel and eastward carrying many of the Egyptian soldiers and their horses with it. The bodies of many of the drowned soldiers were washed up on the eastern shore at the feet of their intended victims. (Exodus 14:30)

The Bible also says that the Lord "made the wheels of their chariots come off so that they had difficulty driving" (Exodus 14:25) causing the Egyptian soldiers to become stuck. Expeditions diving along this underwater bridge discovered many coral encrusted chariots with their wheels detached. Some gold plated wheels were found indicating high level officials or priests were part of the group pursuing the Israelites. Also found were parts of skeletons of men and horses, all preserved by the coral covering them.

We hope to add some photographs here in the near future showing some of these underwater findings.

Further evidence of the underwater bridge and the crossing site comes from identical Phoenician columns found on either side of the crossing site. The inscriptions on the one found on the west side lying in the water had been eroded off. However, on the one found on the Arabian side, arachaic Hebrew inscriptions were still legible on the leeward side of the column. They read "This monument is erected by King Solomon, king of Israel, in honor of Yahweh in commemoration of the crossing of the Red Sea." King Solomon, in his building of the temple, had formed very good relations with the Phoenician people. The column on the west side was moved across the road and stood upright in concrete (see below). The column on the Arabian east side was removed and possibly moved to a museum.

The Israelites continued up the canyon and on to Mt. Sinai. And we should expect to find evidence corroborating the Bible along this route. Click here to go to the Mt. Sinai page.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 12:32 PM

http://anchorstone.com/number6f.html

The "Bounds" Set by Moses

"And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death." EXO 19:12

The area of the "holy precinct", the section Moses was directed by God to enclose in "bounds" at the foot of the mountain, is enclosed by huge, 18 foot diameter round columns. These cannot be seen except upon close examination because over the intervening 3,400 years, soil and rock has accumulated around them raising the ground level.

Today, only the tops of a few can be seen, sticking up through the ground just a few inches. It was one of columns that was partially excavated when Ron and Dave were there in 1985. Their construction is as follows: the outer wall, constructed of brick-sized rocks, is 18 foot in diameter; and the construction is similar to the large Egyptian columns.

Within this enclosed outer wall is another interior wall, several feet smaller. In between these two walls, other stones of the same size are placed vertically. Their location can be seen quite easily, as the soil covering them drops off about twenty feet along their entire course.

The evidence shows that they extended across from north to south in a fairly direct line, then end where a dried riverbed cuts through (this riverbed begins high up in the mountain, comes down the side, and extends out eastward). See Deu. 9:21.

The boundary columns then begin again along the southern edge of the riverbed, travel east, turn south and then turn westward, where they extend all the way to the southern side of the mountain.

The Altar at the Base of the Mountain
Within this boundary, very near the point where the base of the mountain meets the level plain, are the remains of a large, uncut stone altar.

The Holy Precinct
When viewed looking west, the entire area of the holy precinct can be seen. In immediate view to the right is a portion of the mountain which features double "peaks". Just below these peaks, in the face of the mountain, can be seen a cave. On the far right peak, there are two extremely large boulders with a solitary tree growing between them.

This strange tree which seemingly is growing out of the granite, is one of the first things Ron noticed when he first saw this mountain, and it is this tree which positively identifies the mountain.

In an area with miles and miles of mountains, there is no mistaking this particular site - when you see the tree, you know you are there. In fact, "Abu Hesham" told Ron that it was only when he looked up and saw the tree between the massive granite boulders that he realized he was at the right mountain!

In archaeology, there are three things which are usually present in an archaeologically important site - first, of course, is physical evidence. Second, is ancient inscriptions in the area, identifying or connection the particular discovery with the area. Finally, and very importantly, are the study of local traditions passed down through the natives of the region.

As we mentioned earlier, the Bedouin, Ibrahim Frich, told Ron and Dave that "Jebel Musa Henna", when they were at Jebel el Lawz. In other words, the local people even refer to this mountain as "Moses' mountain".

But there is a reference in a book written about 650 AD, which speaks of a tree on Sinai - and the book from which this is taken, was written by a man who lived and knew western Saudi Arabia. This book is the Koran. The speaker in this passage is supposed to be God, or Allah, who refers to himself in the plural as He states:

"We produced for you...a tree issuing from the Mount of Sinai that bears oil and seasoning..." (`The Koran", translated by Arthur J. Arberry, Chapter (Sura) "The Believers", para. 20.)

We know for a fact that Mohammed, the author of the Koran, visited this area at least once. For in about 631 AD, he concluded peace treaties with the Christian chief of Aqaba and the Jewish tribes in the oases of Maqna. This is the immediate area to the north and south of Jebel el Lawz - within walking distance.

On the face of the mountain, as looking from outside the Holy Precinct, there extends the evidence of an ancient river or brook, that originated high in the mountain. The waters issued forth, spilling down through the southern part of the holy precinct, turning east and flowing to the edge of the boundary markers, then turning and flowing north. The path is still visible today. The Biblical account tells of this:

"And I took your sin, the calf which ye had made, and burnt it with fire, and stamped it, and ground it very small,...and I cast the dust thereof into the brook that descended out of the mount." DEU 9:21

And gain, as we read the Koran, it appears that the peoples of this area knew the site of Mt. Sinai and this "brook" very well.

"Moses...said...`I observe a fire,...When he came to it, a voice cried from the right bank of the watercourse, in the sacred hollow, coming from the tree: Moses, I am God..." (Ibid., Chapter `The Story', para. 29-30.)

This is an amazing description of a scene which perfectly fits the evidence from the site! The "sacred hollow" describes the area at the foot of the blackened mountain, which is protected on three sides by the mountains. The tree is certainly to the right of the river and again fits.

Equally as interesting, from the point of being local Arabian tradition as captured in the Koran, is the following:

"Thou wast not upon the western side when We decreed to Moses the commandment, nor wast thou of those witnessing..." (Ibid, para. 44)

This illustrative language says that the people whom are being addressed were not on the "western" or opposite side of the mountain, neither were they on the eastern side, which is where "those witnessing" were located!

The Golden Calf Altar
As we said, the evidence which caused the Saudi archaeologist to say that this was a major archaeological discovery, was the petroglyphs on the altar which is located east of the holy precinct - in fact, from the top of the mountain, looking down toward the sacred area, this altar is almost directly straight ahead. But it is perhaps a mile or more from the base of the mountain. As we read the Biblical account of the event, we can see that this site fits the description given perfectly:

And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides;... And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp. And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear. And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount. And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it." EXO 32:15-20

We can visualize Moses and Joshua looking out over the area from the plateau, getting ready to begin their final descent. They look out over the uninhabited holy precinct, and just outside the boundary columns, the people are in a great commotion, singing and dancing. And just beyond the great multitude, nestled close to a small hill, is the golden calf altar.

As they walk through the holy precinct and near the camp, just inside the borders of the holy precinct, they can clearly see the golden calf high upon the altar. Moses throws down the Tables of Stone, just inside the Holy Precinct, but in the sight of the people. He keeps walking straight ahead, directly to Aaron and the altar. Taking the golden calf, he throws it in the fire which Aaron had used to melt the gold in order to form the calf (see verse 24).

With the calf perhaps melted down into a formless "blob", he takes it and climbs upon the altar Aaron built and grinds it down into dust. He then takes the large pile of gold dust to the stream which flows from the mountain and strews it in the water at the place where the stream flows out of the Holy Precinct. Since no one can venture beyond the borders set about the Holy Precinct, no one who drinks the water can escape the pollution of the gold in it- and the entire camp probably experienced tremendous stomach problems from the gold.

Thus far, the evidences at Jebel el Lawz fit the Biblical description perfectly!

con't

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 12:33 PM

The Altar at the Foot of the Mountain
If we stand just outside the boundary columns and look directly west into the Holy Precinct, near the foot of the mountain to the left is an altar made of uncut stones. Standing in front of this altar, it is about shoulder high to Ron- but if you walk around behind it, the slope of the ground beneath it causes it to only be a little above knee high to Ron.

"And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it. 26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon." EXO 20:25

Again, the altar fits the Biblical description. The stones are natural in shape - no tool has been used to shape its stones. It has no steps - Moses could easily make the offerings upon it when he stood behind it, which would have him facing the congregation.

Extending out from this altar at about a 90 degree angle, is a sort of walled in area. Perhaps this was where the animals were slaughtered, or it may have been the foundation for some type of tent/building.

The Twelve Pillars

"And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel." EXO 24:4

With no more information than this as to the twelve pillars, we look to the Hebrew word translated to read "pillars" - it is "matstsebah". Could this be the origin of the word "massebah", which is a term for a one-piece, standing stone pillar?

If so, we would assume that these pillars would be simple standing stones, not columns constructed out of many rocks fitted together. But we can go to another example:

And the children of Israel did so as Joshua commanded, and took up twelve stones out of the midst of Jordan, as the LORD spake unto Joshua, according to the number of the tribes of the children of Israel, and carried them over with them unto the place where they lodged, and laid them down there. And Joshua set up twelve stones in the midst of Jordan,in the place where the feet of the priests which bare the ark of the covenant stood: and they are there unto this day." JOS 4:8-9

These were clearly one piece stones. So, we can expect that the "pillars" Moses erect were not constructed out of numerous rocks fit together. And in the Holy Precinct, to the far right and near the front (looking westward into the area) there is a semicircle of twelve large granite boulders, about six feet wide and nine feet tall (this is an estimate based on the drop in ground level). These are, like the eighteen foot diameter boundary columns, covered by alluvial soil, washed into the area by seasonal showers and only the tops are visible.

The White Marble Shrine
Near the altar at the base of the mountain, are the remains of some type of shrine built of pure white, polished marble. Its style indicates it was from a much later date- it was round, with eight sets of double columns at even intervals. Its roof was a polished dome. The pieces of the columns are about twenty-one inches in diameter, with one measurement taken as 20.6 inches- the royal cubit used in Noah's Ark and in building the Tabernacle and its furnishings. There are quite a number of these still lying in the area, and were seen by Ron on his first trip to the site in 1984.

When Ron and Dave were exploring the region, each separated by the Interrogation team, Ron found a piece of white marble with an inscription on it in Archaic Hebrew, which he committed to memory and buried, not telling the Saudis about it. He believes that section will prove that Solomon had the shrine built if he can ever get back out there and retrieve it, or have it safely retrieved.

Rephidim
Just over the western side of the mountain range, opposite the Holy Precinct, these is an area which features an incredible, five to six-story rock perched upon a hill that it about 200 feet high. This rock is split through the middle and displays the pattern of water erosion and evidence that numerous streams came forth in several directions.

About 200 yards from this rock, is another altar, similar in construction to the one in the Holy Precinct. Exodus 17:15 "And Moses built an altar....." This area also features an immense plain area in which the battle with the Amalekites could have taken place.

The evidence is overwhelming - we have only touched on a small amount of the archaeological evidence at this site. When we can do so without compromising "Abu Hesham's" safety, everything will be made public and available in video and publications. For now, we must continue to be patient!

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 12:39 PM

http://www.bibleplus.org/discoveries/mtsinai.htm

The Real Mt. Sinai Rediscovered!
According to Scripture (Galatians 4:25 - "Now Hagar stands for Mt. Sinai in Arabia"), Mt. Sinai should be in Saudi Arabia, in the territory of the Midianites, not on what we call today, the Sinai peninsula. Indeed, after tracing the route of the Exodus from Egypt and discovering the Red Sea crossing site through the Gulf of Aqaba, the route to the real Mt. Sinai should be easier to find. And indeed, Jebel El Lawz, the Mountain of the Law, was rediscovered.

On the route to Mt. Sinai, the Israelites became very thirsty. God instructed Moses to strike a large rock at Horeb and water would pour forth (Exodus 17:5, 6). Moses struck the rock. God split the rock and water in copious amounts poured forth, enough to water the 1+ million plus people and their animals. Below is a picture of that rock and some of the erosion as the water forcefully poured out from it. Note the person standing at the base of the rock in the right hand picture. Water poured forth from both sides of it and the water channels formed extend for a fair distance into the valleys on both sides.

The Bible says the children of Israel encamped "in" the mountain. Mt. Sinai has an area which is like the caldera of an extinct volcano, with an opening on one side. Thus the Israelites actually moved into the caldera, and camped inside the mountain. Following are some pictures of the Saudi fence and guard house that were placed around the peak area of the mountain, in the same location as where God told Moses to build a fence so that the Israelites could not break through.

A view looking down from the mountain showing where the fence Moses would have built would have been located. The fence above is in the same location. Next is several photos of the mountain.

Note the blackened peak where the burning presence of the Lord settled down. The rocks looked as if they had been torched. The darkened areas are not shadows from clouds or other peaks. To the right is a photo of the altar at Rephadim (Exodus 17:15, 16) built to commemorate the victory over the Amalekites. Moses called it, "The LORD is my banner". A closeup of the rocks show that the altar was built of unhewn rocks as commanded by God.

Following is a photographs of one of twelve Egyptian style petroglyphs of bulls on the altar around which the Israelites worshipped the golden calf. It was when Moses came down the mountain, and saw the Israelites dancing around this idolatrous calf, that he threw down the tablets of stone, containing the covenant or contract between God and His people.

For many more marvelous photographs and video shots, we strongly encourage you to order the CD-ROM "Ark of the Covenant and other Discoveries" or the Surprising Discoveries video, Part II. BiblePlus does not sell or offer either of these, but encourages you to order them via the source listed on the Discoveries page.

halva

03-03-2005, 12:43 PM

Well, there are these days when some among us appear to be so lacking of processing skills to comprehind the big picture on religion, god, and the natural order that they would serve better to get a big sign that says: "I am stupid, and I can't help it."

Halva, go make yourself one of those signs and have it laminated, cause you need it frequently.

Jim Phelps just lay off. If you can't find some outlet in off-line reality as I am attempting to do, at least just refrain from insulting me.

I am not interested in spending all my time on this forum. And any time I am here I would prefer to read rather than post.

Unless Raynolds starts becoming unbearable again and nobody else is dealing with him I would prefer to downgrade my presence here.

Dealing with him does not of course mean - in between periodic announcements that the End of the World is Nigh - threatening that you will be sending the FBI or some other American authority against him. Because you are not going to be doing anything of that kind.

Boomer Chick

03-03-2005, 02:36 PM

If we are proposing various theories, might as throw in the other entertaining ones! I happen to like this theory! Most likely, many miracles of the past in time will be actually scientifically explainable. As even Jesus's miracles of healing, his rising from the tomb, his return in another body type, and other feats, even his psychic abilities will someday be shown to be energies and abilities that more advanced spiritual beings possess well within the bounds of logical and God-created physics.

http://www.sptimes.ru/archive/times/936/top/t_11445.htm

City Scientists Say Red-Sea Miracle Can Be Explained
By Galina Stolyarova
STAFF WRITER

"And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon dry ground: the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left."

Exodus 14

Two Russian mathematicians have attempted to explain the miracle of the parting of the Red Sea, which according to the Old Testament and the Torah allowed the Jews to escape slavery in Egypt.

The Egyptians who followed them were drowned in the waves as they attempted to follow, the Bible story says.

St. Petersburg mathematician Naum Volzinger, who wrote a study in collaboration with colleague Alexei Androsov, who lives in Hamburg, is a senior researcher with the Institute of Oceanology of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

He said the Red Sea might have parted under special conditions, which their study has discovered.

The study focuses on a reef that runs from the well-documented starting point of the Jews to the north side of the Sea. In Biblical times the reef was much closer to the surface, Volzinger said Monday in a telephone interview.

The study took almost six months to complete and was a purely mathematical task, he said.

Called "Modeling of the Hydrodynamic Situation During the Exodus," and published in the Bulletin of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

"In purely professional terms, I can say that it was done through a system of differential equations," Volzinger said.

Put simply, the task facing the scientists was to establish the conditions under which the waves might have parted.

The questions the Russian researchers were interested in for the Exodus study were, for instance, the speed of the wind and the strength of the storm needed to leave the reef high and dry at low tide; how long would the reef stay would dry and how quickly the waters would return.

"If the [east] wind blew all night at a speed of 30 meters per second then the reef would be dry," Volzinger said. "It would take the Jews - there were 600,000 of them - four hours to cross the 7 kilometer reef that runs from one coast to another. Then, in half an hour, the waters would come back."

At the Institute of Oceanology, Volzinger researches various ocean phenomena, including flooding and tidal waves.

The miracle of the parting of the sea is mentioned in the Shema, one of the most important Jewish prayers, which is said by religious Jews three times daily. Not only did the Jews cross the sea to escape from slavery in Egypt, but the Egyptians who followed them drowned in the sea, according to the book of Exodus in the Old Testament and in the Torah.

Mark Grubarg, the head of the Jewish community in St. Petersburg, said the spiritual value of this miracle is immense for Jews.

"Jews were the first nation in history to accept monotheism but they could hardly assert it while in slavery in Egypt," Grubarg said. "God told them to return to the Promised Land, and this is why it was so important. When the Jews reached the sea, they needed a miracle to complete their journey, and they were granted that miracle as a reward for their strong faith. The idea of monotheism is reflected in the Shema prayer."

This extraordinary event has long preoccupied people's minds: Medieval philosopher Thomas Aquinas said the parting of the Red Sea was possible.

A number of researchers around the globe have tried to determine the probability of such an event taking place and to calculate the odds but now Volzinger and Androsov decided to focus on what it would take for the miracle to happen.

Volzinger said he and Androsov studied the issue "strictly from Isaac Newton's point of view" as he puts it. "I am convinced that the God rules the Earth through the laws of physics," he smiles. Yet he acknowledges the religious importance of the miracle. "To fulfill their historical mission, the Jews needed to return to a free land," the scientist said.

"The miracle really did influence the formation of the nation's character, strengthening the belief in their historical path," Grubarg said.

When the Jews reached the shores of the Red Sea they were divided as to what to do next. One quarter wanted to return to Egypt, longing for guaranteed meals despite the humiliation of slavery; another quarter considered a hand-to-hand fight with the enemy; another quarter resorted to prayers, and only the remaining 25 percent believed they should head towards their land across the sea - because God told them to do so.

"There is so much wisdom to learn from that episode - from just how easily many of us can forget and even accept the horrors of slavery to the importance of being able to listen to God and follow him without any doubts," Grubarg said. "Naturally, for us, the parting of the Red Sea was a miracle and nothing else."

Volzinger said he hasn't yet informed any religious organizations about the scientists' findings and they haven't had any reaction yet.

But the parting of the Red Sea, Volzinger argues, isn't likely to happen again. The reef has now been severed to create a passage for ships and the water is now much deeper. Unless, that is, another miracle occurs.

Boomer Chick

03-03-2005, 03:15 PM

Here's another one, and notice how I offer links and don't post as though I wrote the words myself?

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2004/01/28.html

In Barry H. Downing's 1990 article Did a UFO Part the Red Sea? published in UFO Magazine, he suggests that the "pillar of cloud of fire" that guided the Jews may have actually been a cigar shaped or cylindrical UFO, the inhabitants of which communicated directly with Moses. Echoing the author Morris Jessup, Downing writes "the exodus UFO moved to a position directly under the Red Sea, turning on its propulsion system to high force." The system's electromagnetic nature could yield a force field, "which would create the reported effect of straight walls which so amazed the Jews," Downing theorized.

__________________________

I tried linking to the orginal aritcle and it's not online yet. Isn't this one entertaining? :p

___________________________

More theories!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/yvan.cartwright/

___________________________

More fascinating theorists! Get a load of this one!!!!

http://www.lionel-fanthorpe.com/

Dig the name? Lionel Fanthorpe? Wait 'till you see him and read what else he does in life!

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/shows/2005/02/08.html

Templar Secrets
Author and Anglican Priest Lionel Fanthorpe returned to talk about Knights Templar secrets and the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark may have originally belonged to the Egyptians and it could have had alchemical powers to transform energy into a mysterious "fifth element," he said. It was then taken by Moses, he suggested, and later possibly brought to Ethiopia through the Queen of Sheba, who may have had a son with King Solomon.

Eventually the Ark may have been hidden at Rennes-le-Château in France by the Templars. In 1885, Saunière (mentioned in the novel The Da Vinci Code), an impoverished priest located there, suddenly came into wealth, and Fanthorpe, surmised that he may have discovered the Ark and sold it.

The Templars may have just been the "tip of the iceberg," with their secrets stemming from "ancient guardians" set up by ETs, he posited. But what if these secrets became lost or distorted in some way? asked Fanthorpe. Like a powerful technology, they might do either immense good or harm. The Templars, he said, could have been guarding the artifact itself or perhaps more importantly the "guidebook" for how to use it.

__________________________________

Folks, there are all kinds of theories out there! You just can't hook into one without using your common sense and applying some solid scientific logic!

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/yvan.cartwright/

Historical detective Graham Phillips explored the possibility that the biblical account of the ten plagues of Egypt could have been caused by a volcanic eruption. According to his research, the Exodus from Egypt may have been occurring at the same time as a violent eruption on the island of Thera in the Aegean, around 1400 B.C.

The ash from the volcano might have created several days of "darkness" (one of the plagues) in Egypt, he theorized. Additionally, he suggested that the plagues of frogs, locusts and flies, may have come about because their natural predators were all killed off by the fallout from the volcanic ash. Also, the incident at the Red Sea might have been related to tidal waves set off by the volcano, he added.

Phillips also discussed the unusual discoveries at Tomb 55 in Egypt where amulets were set up to trap a spirit inside his coffin. He speculated that this may have been the tomb of a Pharaoh who was born at the time of the volcano/plagues and was thus considered cursed by his people. He also touched on his investigations into King Arthur, Merlin and the Ark of the Covenant.

_____________________________

Another Burning Bush theory:

Biblical Burning Bush Explained
21-Jul-2003

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=2925

Norwegian reporter Hanne Dankertsen writes that researchers have found the explanation for the burning bush, from which God spoke to Moses in the Bible. They went to the Sahara desert to study bushes that were setting themselves on fire. Smoke was billowing from red holes in the ground and local villages were evacuating.
Dag Kristian Dysthe expected to find lava underneath the smoking soil, but found a burning layer of turf instead. He says, "We measured 1292 degrees Fahrenheit in some of the holes. It was actually a little scary seeing the burning bushes in the desert, almost like in the Bible. We discovered that a burning layer of turf under the soil caused the smoke and the heat that set the bushes on fire."

Dysthe thinks the same thing may have taken place in biblical times, when it was reported that God spoke to Moses in a burning bush.

Religious people sometimes have trouble dealing with UFOs.

http://pub.tv2.no/dyn-nettavisen/arkiv/?archiveSection=1706&archiveItem=277123
____________________________________

BC :p

Boomer Chick

03-03-2005, 03:20 PM

:p

Proof of Exodus—or Not?
23-Jun-2003

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=2837

Peter and Mark Elmer have figured out the route Moses took to lead the Jews out of Egypt 3,000 years ago. Neither of them are trained archeologists—Peter is a mechanic in the U.K. and Mark makes surgical appliances there. There's a lot of skepticism about the exodus and many scholars think it never actually took place. Also, today's Red Sea is not the same one the Jews crossed (if they did), and it was mistranslated in the King James Bible anyway: it's actually the "Reed Sea"—or marsh.
But none of this stopped the Elmer brothers, who, along with experienced diver Aaron Sen, went to Nuweiba beach in Egypt, where they discovered a mass of coral which had grown over chariot parts. Peter says, "There was coral growth that matched the shape and size of the hub of a chariot. We also picked up a chariot wheel itself."

In WorldNetDaily.com, Joe Kovacs quotes Elmer as saying, "I believe I actually sat in an ancient chariot cab. Without question, it is most definitely the remains of the Egyptian army."

"All kinds of people are finding coral and calling it chariot parts," says Richard Rives of Wyatt Archeological Research in Tennessee. "It's most likely coral covered with coral." The late Ron Wyatt spent years searching for physical evidence for the events in the Bible. In addition to chariot wheels, Wyatt claimed to have found Noah's Ark on the mountain next to Ararat in Turkey, the "real" Mount Sinai in Saudi Arabia and the Ark of the Covenant with the Ten Commandments near the site of Jesus' crucifixion.

Wyatt's wife, Mary Nell, says there are chariot parts on a land bridge that connects Egypt to Saudi Arabia through the Gulf of Aqaba, because Ron found a wheel hub there in the 1970s. It had the remains of eight spokes and was examined by Nassif Mohammed Hassan, director of Antiquities in Cairo, who said it was from the Egyptian Dynasty.

"The truth is, no one really knows where the crossing of the Red Sea took place," says U.S. Biblical scholar Carl Rasmussen, who thinks it was somewhere near the current Suez Canal.

Then there's the question of how the waters parted to let the Jews through. "The wind did not separate the water," says Swedish researcher Lennart Moller. "No person could be in that wind and survive..." He doesn’t agree with most scholars that the Hebrew "yum suph" means "sea of reeds"— he says it refers specifically to the Gulf of Aqaba.

Peter Elmer says people ask him, "Why should a forklift mechanic…be able to go to the same place Moses was?" He replies, "Jesus used fishermen, tax collectors and publicans. Why not a forklift mechanic?"

Their finds are now at Cairo University and have been dated to around 3,500 year ago, the period of the Israelites' flight from Egypt.

There's a history secret hidden in the British Museum that would blow the lid of current Middle Eastern politics.

Boomer Chick

03-03-2005, 03:31 PM

Can science explain the Bible?

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=2610

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=2624

___________________________________

This is probably the author that affects Phelps the most:

William Henry

https://secure1.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=ukcountry&BusType=BtoC&Count1=939251124&Count2=856391549&Target=products%2Easp&CategoryID=15

__________________________________

http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=1332

Archeology Proves Old Testament Not History
12-Mar-2002

The New York Times of Saturday, March 9 reports that archaeologists digging in Israel over the last 25 years have found almost no physical evidence to back up the stories in the Old Testament. Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed, and neither did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never happened. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
These new theories have gained wide acceptance among non- Orthodox rabbis, but they have not attempted to inform their congregations about this until now. The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, representing the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the U.S., has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first in more than 60 years. Called “Etz Hayim” (“Tree of Life” in Hebrew), compiled by David Lieber of the University of Judaism in Los Angeles. It tells about the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures, in an effort to introduce a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine document.

“Etz Hayim” contains the standard Hebrew text, a parallel English translation (edited by Chaim Potok, best known as the author of “The Chosen”), a page-by-page explanation of the text, along with commentaries on Jewish practice and 41 essays by prominent rabbis and scholars on controversial historical topics.

These essays will surprise and shock many readers. For instance, an essay on “Ancient Near Eastern Mythology,” by Robert Wexler, president of the University of Judaism in Los Angeles, says it’s unlikely that the story of Genesis originated in Palestine. It’s more likely it arose in Mesopotamia, and this is most apparent in the story of the Flood, which probably grew out of the periodic overflowing of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in that area. The story of Noah was probably borrowed from the Mesopotamian epic of Gilgamesh.

In the essay “Biblical Archaeology,” Lee I. Levine, a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, says, “There is no reference in Egyptian sources to Israel’s sojourn in that country, and the evidence that does exist is negligible and indirect.” The few indirect pieces of evidence, like the use of Egyptian names, he says, “are far from adequate to corroborate the historicity of the biblical account.”

Levine also finds little evidence for the conquest and settlement of Canaan, the ancient name for the area including Israel. Excavations showing that Jericho was unwalled and uninhabited, he says, which “clearly seems to contradict the violent and complete conquest portrayed in the Book of Joshua.” Also, there is an “almost total absence of archaeological evidence” backing up the Bible’s grand descriptions of the Jerusalem of David and Solomon.

The notion that the Bible is not literally true “is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis,” says David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to “Etz Hayim.” But some people, “may not like the stark airing of it.” Wolpe says that “virtually every modern archaeologist” agrees “that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all.” He says archaeologists digging in the Sinai have “found no trace of the tribes of Israel — not one shard of pottery.”

In 1981, the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, the official arm of Reform Judaism, published a Torah commentary edited by Rabbi Gunther Plaut, that talked about the growing body of archaeological and textual evidence that called the accuracy of the biblical account into question. It stated that the stories of Genesis were a mix of “myth, legend, distant memory and search for origins, bound together by the strands of a central theological concept.” But it still insisted that Exodus belonged in “the realm of history.” Twenty years later, the weight of scholarly evidence questioning the Exodus narrative has become so great that the majority of scholars feel it’s a legend. However, Orthodox Jews continue to regard the Torah as the literal word of God.

Since the fall, when “Etz Hayim” was issued, more than 100,000 copies have been sold. “When I grew up in Brooklyn, congregants were not sophisticated about anything,” says Rabbi Harold Kushner, the author of “When Bad Things Happen to Good People” and a co-editor of the new book. “Today, they are very sophisticated and well read about psychology, literature and history, but they are locked in a childish version of the Bible.”

________________________________

You decide, but please don't adopt your theories and attempt to push them down anyone's throat! I may believe in Jesus Christ, but I don't force my belief on others.

BC :shock:

Boomer Chick

03-03-2005, 03:57 PM

I like what the Urantia Book has to say, but you're free to accept or reject it.

_____________________________________

http://www.ubfellowship.org/newbook/ppr096_3.html

Regarding Moses:

P1055:6, 96:3.3 No leader ever undertook to reform and uplift a more forlorn, downcast, dejected, and ignorant group of human beings. But these slaves carried latent possibilities of development in their hereditary strains, and there were a sufficient number of educated leaders who had been coached by Moses in preparation for the day of revolt and the strike for liberty to constitute a corps of efficient organizers. These superior men had been employed as native overseers of their people; they had received some education because of Moses' influence with the Egyptian rulers.

P1056:1, 96:3.4 Moses endeavored to negotiate diplomatically for the freedom of his fellow Semites. He and his brother entered into a compact with the king of Egypt whereby they were granted permission peaceably to leave the valley of the Nile for the Arabian desert. They were to receive a modest payment of money and goods in token of their long service in Egypt. The Hebrews for their part entered into an agreement to maintain friendly relations with the Pharaohs and not to join in any alliance against Egypt. But the king later saw fit to repudiate this treaty, giving as his reason the excuse that his spies had discovered disloyalty among the Bedouin slaves. He claimed they sought freedom for the purpose of going into the desert to organize the nomads against Egypt.
P1056:2, 96:3.5 But Moses was not discouraged; he bided his time, and in less than a year, when the Egyptian military forces were fully occupied in resisting the simultaneous onslaughts of a strong Libyan thrust from the south and a Greek naval invasion from the north, this intrepid organizer led his compatriots out of Egypt in a spectacular night flight. This dash for liberty was carefully planned and skillfully executed. And they were successful, notwithstanding that they were hotly pursued by Pharaoh and a small body of Egyptians, who all fell before the fugitives' defense, yielding much booty, all of which was augmented by the loot of the advancing host of escaping slaves as they marched on toward their ancestral desert home.

P1056:5, 96:4.3 Moses had endeavored to teach these Bedouins the idea of El Elyon, but before leaving Egypt, he had become convinced they would never fully comprehend this doctrine. Therefore he deliberately determined upon the compromise adoption of their tribal god of the desert as the one and only god of his followers. Moses did not specifically teach that other peoples and nations might not have other gods, but he did resolutely maintain that Yahweh was over and above all, especially to the Hebrews. But always was he plagued by the awkward predicament of trying to present his new and higher idea of Deity to these ignorant slaves under the guise of the ancient term Yahweh, which had always been symbolized by the golden calf of the Bedouin tribes.

P1056:6, 96:4.4 The fact that Yahweh was the god of the fleeing Hebrews explains why they tarried so long before the holy mountain of Sinai, and why they there received the Ten Commandments which Moses promulgated in the name of Yahweh, the god of Horeb. During this lengthy sojourn before Sinai the religious ceremonials of the newly evolving Hebrew worship were further perfected.

P1057:1, 96:4.5 It does not appear that Moses would ever have succeeded in the establishment of his somewhat advanced ceremonial worship and in keeping his followers intact for a quarter of a century had it not been for the violent eruption of Horeb during the third week of their worshipful sojourn at its base. "The mountain of Yahweh was consumed in fire, and the smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly." In view of this cataclysm it is not surprising that Moses could impress upon his brethren the teaching that their God was "mighty, terrible, a devouring fire, fearful, and all-powerful."

P1057:2, 96:4.6 Moses proclaimed that Yahweh was the Lord God of Israel, who had singled out the Hebrews as his chosen people; he was building a new nation, and he wisely nationalized his religious teachings, telling his followers that Yahweh was a hard taskmaster, a "jealous God." But nonetheless he sought to enlarge their concept of divinity when he taught them that Yahweh was the "God of the spirits of all flesh," and when he said, "The eternal God is your refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms." Moses taught that Yahweh was a covenant-keeping God; that he "will not forsake you, neither destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers because the Lord loves you and will not forget the oath by which he swore to your fathers."

P1057:3, 96:4.7 Moses made a heroic effort to uplift Yahweh to the dignity of a supreme Deity when he presented him as the "God of truth and without iniquity, just and right in all his ways." And yet, despite this exalted teaching, the limited understanding of his followers made it necessary to speak of God as being in man's image, as being subject to fits of anger, wrath, and severity, even that he was vengeful and easily influenced by man's conduct.

P1057:4, 96:4.8 Under the teachings of Moses this tribal nature god, Yahweh, became the Lord God of Israel, who followed them through the wilderness and even into exile, where he presently was conceived of as the God of all peoples. The later captivity that enslaved the Jews in Babylon finally liberated the evolving concept of Yahweh to assume the monotheistic role of the God of all nations.

P1057:5, 96:4.9 The most unique and amazing feature of the religious history of the Hebrews concerns this continuous evolution of the concept of Deity from the primitive god of Mount Horeb up through the teachings of their successive spiritual leaders to the high level of development depicted in the Deity doctrines of the Isaiahs, who proclaimed that magnificent concept of the loving and merciful Creator Father.

http://www.ubfellowship.org/newbook/ppr096_4.html

____________________________________

Interesting about the volcano, heh? Stu, what do you think of this regarding Moses?

BC :)

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 04:15 PM

The things about volcanoes and religion that seem to be the most important for consideration are how their emissions of the metal sulfur compounds and chlorine compounds are the very same ones that have the highly hygroscopic effects that would seed clouds.

And from this effect, in say, downwind of Mt. Ararat or downwind of Mt. Sinai near Midian in Saudi Arabia, there would have been a marked environmental difference in the area due to those effects.

For instance, St. Sinai could well have caused much rain that fell into the Sinai Penensula to make for that wash out area at the middle of the Gulf of Aquba that supplied the material for the land bridge. The active volcanic activity would also have supported some swelling of the crust in this area to make the land bridge periodically rise and fall. The tides in that area are some of the highest on the planet due to the long tuning fork effect of this Gulf. Perhaps a 40 ft rise and fall might be the real case for the Exodus period, 25 ft from the normal tides, and 15 ft from the volcanic swelling during sustained eruptions.

The volcanic emissions are most important to study to learn more about how Earth's atmosphere was formed, and how minerals and trace metals were laid down in the soils. Then the follow on evolution of lifeforms that became dependent on these conditions.

The most interesting parts are looking at how volcanic emissions can and do affect clouds forming and their persistence using the hygroscopic material emissions. Some of the big ocean volcanoes actually blotted out the sun globally for 40 days and nights and set up immunse ranfall around the planet. Krakatoa caused one of those events once.

Next to the Sun being the most significant thing that made for life on planet earth, the volcanic effects come in second. They set up the conditions that appear to have formed the Garden of Eden from the times of Mt. Ararat's emissions. They set up a much different climate for the zone around Midian in Saudi Arabia and the set up the metal sulfite emissions that Moses termed Manna.

It was the study of these volcano emissions and their hygroscopic methods in making great rains that became one of the prime principles for making chemtrails using related ideas for forming metal sulfates that hydrolyze and seed rain and induce climate change. Both aluminum and titanium leant themselves well toward that effect with sulfur and chlorine products in the air being enhanced by coal emissions.

One can even see some of these effects associated with volcanoes in the biblical texts.

It was these type stories of Moses version of his god that set the stage for the invention of chemtrails and the issues of setting up climate change factors and slowing global warming, as nature did the very same thing with volcanoes and it shows up in the Bible effects.

You only have to know to look and what to look for to see it. But once you know, it becomes obvious as hell.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 04:21 PM

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/535ad.htm

535 AD — The "Dark Ages" Begin – Scientific Growth Stops !
Volcano Krakatoa Explodes, plunging the Whole Planet into Darkness !
[ Another idea being put forth, is that a small meteorite impacted in the volcano's caldera. ]
[ Also See ... 1691 – Salem, Massachusetts exorcises its "witches." Ergot Poisoning implicated in the bizarre behavior. ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PBS Program — "SECRETS OF THE DEAD"

www.pbs.org

" Catastrophe ! " ( 5–15–2000, 8:00 p.m. )

For many years, humans forgot their glorious past and huddled in a state of ignorance and fear. Scientists have uncovered evidence from around the world that the early Dark Ages may have been triggered by an actual event that occurred around 535 A.D. Science writer David Keys believes that the cause was a natural phenomenon of cataclysmic proportions. Determined to discover the exact nature of this natural catastrophe, and to understand its political, economic and social repercussions, he embarks on a scientific odyssey that ranges from Greenland to the Antarctica; from the Americas to the Far East. At the center of a stunningly complex chain of events seems to be "a loud bang" — according to Keys a volcanic explosion equal to "two thousand million Hiroshima size bombs { 2 Billion - 2,000,000,000 }." The subsequent environmental calamity, he believes, affected human civilization from Mongolia to Constantinople, precipitating plague, famine, death, great migration, the fall of the great Mexican city of Teotihuacan, the Anglo-Saxon victory over the Celts, and may even have played a role in the rise of Islam.
Catastrophe ! { PBS Script Part 1 } Catastrophe ! { PBS Script Part 2 }

The volcano Krakatoa is located on Rakata, an island in the Sunda Strait between Java and Sumatra, Indonesia. Its eruption in 1883 was one of the most catastrophic ever witnessed in recorded history. Until recently, its only known previous eruption was a moderate one in 1680. On the afternoon of Aug. 26, 1883, the first of a series of increasingly violent explosions occurred. A black cloud of ash rose 17 miles (27 kilometers) above Krakatoa. On the morning of the next day, tremendous explosions were heard 2,200 miles (3,540 kilometers) away in Australia. Ash was propelled to a height of 50 miles (80 kilometers), blocking the sun and plunging the surrounding region into darkness for two and a half days.

The drifting dust caused spectacular red sunsets throughout the following year. Pressure waves in the atmosphere were recorded around the Earth, and tsunamis, or tidal waves, reached as far away as Hawaii and South America. The greatest wave reached a height of 120 feet (36 meters) and took 36,000 lives in the coastal towns of nearby Java and Sumatra. Near the volcano masses of floating pumice produced from lava cooled in the sea were thick enough to halt traveling ships. Everything on the nearby islands was buried under a thick layer of sterile ash. Plant and animal life did not begin to reestablish itself to any degree for five years. The volcano was quiet until 1927, when sporadic weaker eruptions began. These tremors have continued into the 1990s.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

535 AD
The nobles were returning from the middle east "HOLY WARS".
Pope John II died.
There were days of darkness.
The plague swept around the world three times in about ten years.
There were seven years of crop failures.
Nations changed their religions.
Empires Fell.
In places great drought destroyed the land.
In other places floods brought chaos.
Tree rings didn't show normal growth for fifteen years.

[ This might help you understand why people got so upset when the year 1,000 came around. ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

www.umich.edu/
Procopius, as quoted by Stothers and Rampino[3], says of 536 AD that ...

"during this year a most dread portent took place. For the sun gave forth its light without brightness ... and it seemed exceedingly like the sun in eclipse, for the beams it shed were not clear."

John Lydus says ...

"The sun became dim ... for nearly the whole year ... so that the fruits were killed at an unseasonable time."

Michael the Syrian says ...

"the sun became dark and its darkness lasted for eighteen months. Each day it shone for about four hours, and still this light was only a feeble shadow ... the fruits did not ripen and the wine tasted like sour grapes." ( To counter this, sugar of lead was used to sweeten the wine. — Tommy C — )

Rampino[2] et al quotes a report from Cassiodorus stating ...

"The sun ... seems to have lost its wonted light, and appears of a bluish colour. We marvel to see no shadows of our bodies at noon, to feel the mighty vigour of the sun's heat wasted into feebleness, and the phenomena which accompany an eclipse prolonged through almost a whole year. We have had ... a summer without heat ... the crops have been chilled by north winds ... the rain is denied ..."

The drinking water was so polluted at that time, wine and beer were consumed in large quantities. In fact, lead pipes were used to supply the basement vats to the upper dinning chambers in most great houses of Europe. Wine is acidic and leached the lead out, and into the bodies of the ruling class. They went crazy. Mercury was used for all manners of "medical" treatments causing toxic poisoning. Lead oxide was also a popular form of face powder up until Victorian times. Yeow! — Diego Mulligan —

www.fortunecity.com
543 AD - There was an extraordinary universal plague through the world, which swept away the noblest third part of the human race.

www.science-frontiers.com
"Now tree-ring data, published by Professor Mike Baillie of Queens University of Belfast, has brought catastrophes almost into modern times. The tree rings show that in the mid 530s -- just about the time civilisation on Earth suffered a sharp setback -- there was a sudden decline in the rate of tree growth which lasted about 15 years. Clearly, something dramatic had happened.
Comment: The scientific literature hints of dust-veil events in more recent times: (1) the white-sky phenomenon of 1912; and (2) the "dry fog" of 1783.

www.incore.com
After Ashoka's death in 232 BC, the Mauryan Empire started to decline and the country was invaded by different tribes until the 4th century when Gupta Empire was established. It brought peace and prosperity back and is considered as"THE GOLDEN AGE" in Indian history. Hinduism was revived and Buddhism started declining. In 535 AD, Huns (tribe from Central Asia) invaded Northern India and The Gupta Empire was defeated. The Huns were later defeated by Harshavardhan and by the year 612 AD he recovered back almost the entire area which at one time was under the Gupta Empire from Huns. After Harshavardhan's death, his Empire started disintegrating.

fanaticus.jiffynet.net
Huneric died in 484 AD, and was followed in the Kingship by Gunthamund (484-496 AD), Thrasamund (496-523 AD), Hilderic (523-530 AD), and the last Vandal King Gelimir (530-535 AD). A vigorous and warlike people under Gaiseric, the Vandals gradually became soft with the riches of their conquests and absorbed in the religious and internal politics of the former Roman North African province in which they were always a minority of the population.

www.jmu.edu
GUPTA EMPIRE (320 AD-535 AD)

tor-pw1.netcom.ca
In 535 AD, Huns (tribe from Central Asia) invaded Northern India and The Gupta Empire was defeated.

con't

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 04:22 PM

class.et.byu.edu
Gupta empire (320-535 AD)

1. Initially one of the petty kingdoms in India.
2. Centered along the Ganges valley.
3. Eventually conquered all of northern India.
4. Internally weakened towards the end of the empire.
5. Fell to the Huns in a series of invasions but regained some control after the Huns left.
6. For political reasons, the Gupta Hindus persecuted the Buddhists, essentially driving them out of India.
7. Major epics of Indian culture were written.

a. Mahabharata (epic battle story)
b. Ramayana (incarnation of the god Vishnu as the warrior Rama)
www.sicilianculture.com
Sicily Under Barbarian Attacks (440AD - 535 AD)

www.hri.org
In the Byzantine Era (330-1204 AD), the island suffered pirate raids and the rule of the Persians and the Saracenes while the universal earthquake in 535 AD altered the shape of Kalymnos.

www.caledonian.org
Falconry was introduced to Europe and Great Britain (Scotland) during the time when the nobles were returning from the middle east "HOLY WARS". This was about 535 AD.

omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu
It might be the case that parchment and vellum became much cheaper during the collapse of the Roman era after 535 AD.

www.pbs.org
Catastrophe! Part II
NARRATOR
535AD has come and gone- the world has been hit by a catastrophe.
Now comes bizarre weather - the sun is darkened, skies are turbulent, rain is red and snow falls yellow.
There is frost and famine.
Seasons are blurred.
In some places great drought destroys the land. In others floods bring chaos.
The world will never be the same.

www.cfpeople.org
Pope John II died in 535 and was buried in St. Peter's.

www.eurotravelling.net
In the Byzantine Era (330-1204 AD), the island suffered pirate raids and the rule of the Persians and the Saracenes while the universal earthquake in 535 AD altered the shape of Kalymnos.

www.geocities.com
The Vandal kingdom in Africa was destroyed in 535 AD by forces of the Byzantine Emperor Justinian I.

koreanhistoryproject.org
Sometime between 527 and 535 AD, Buddhism became the state religion in Silla for many of the same reasons that Koguryo accepted the religion centuries earlier. Buddhism provided the ideological underpinning for national unity and solidarity in the newly centralized Silla state.

www.oneworld.org
According to historian David Keys, the last time global climate change transformed our planet was back in the sixth century AD, the heart of the Dark Ages. Today climate change is at least partially driven by human agency. But 1,500 years ago it was triggered by a massive volcanic eruption (535 AD) in Southeast Asia (Krakatoa being the likeliest culprit), setting in motion a chain of events which included plague, barbarian migrations and revolution.
It seems that the disease had long been endemic among wild rodent populations in East Africa, but it was the climatic disaster following 535 AD which enabled the disease to spread outside its normal territory.

www.salve.edu
In particular, there was the bubonic plague, which appeared in Constantinople in 542, for the first time in Europe, and then travelled round the empire in search of victims, returning to the capital for a new crop in 558. The plague ended a period of economic growth and initiated one of overstrained resources.

www.rosmini-in-english.org
The following Councils protested and imposed penalties against usurpations at the time of the Merovingians: Clermont I, 535 AD, c. V; Orleans IV, 541 AD, c. 25; Orleans V, 549 AD, c. 14; Paris III, 557 AD, c. 2; Tours II, 567 AD, c. 24, 25. - After the 10th century, the following popes and councils protested and formulated laws against rulers disposing of the Church's temporalities:

http://volcano.und.nodak.edu
Krakatau erupted in 1883, in one of the largest eruptions in recent time. Krakatau is an island volcano along the Indonesian arc, between the much larger islands of Sumatra and Java (each of which has many volcanoes also along the arc). There is a very fine book about the Krakatau eruption by Tom Simkin and Richard Fiske, so if you really want to know about the eruption you should go to the nearest bookstore or library to find that.

Here are some highlights from their summary of effects.

Pictures of Krakatau

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

African dust may sicken some in U.S.
Star Tribune - Wednesday, Sept. 6, 2000

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

St Petersburg Times

Clouds of dust from drought*stricken plains of North Africa could be making people sick in the United States.

A small group of scientists studying the movement of dust from Africa to the United States and the Caribbean has found living bacteria, fungi and what appear to be viruses in the first samples of dust taken over the U.S. Virgin Islands.

The finding strongly demonstrates a need for further study, they say, because it shows that African dust is a potential transport for a variety of disease-causing organisms.

Among other things, the dust could play a role in triggering asthma in the United States and in Caribbean nations.

A marine geologist says the dust also is linked to the demise of certain Caribbean corals and might be linked to the presence of mercury in the Florida Everglades, Red Tide and disease in some amphibians.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More Reasons to Live In a "Magic Tortoise" Home
NEW SCIENTIST WEEKLY NEWSLETTER
No 54, 7 October 2000

We're not sure if or when it will happen, but we've a good idea what the consequences will be. A giant wave will sweep across the Atlantic at the speed of a jet airliner and a mighty wall of water 50 metres high will hit the coast of North America, surging up to 20 kilometres inland and engulfing everything in its path. Simon Day of the Benfield Greig Hazard Research Centre at University College London has discovered that a huge chunk of the volcano Cumbre Vieja, which forms the southern part of La Palma, one of the Canary Islands, is unstable. Day predicts that if half a trillion tonnes of rock slides into the ocean it will create a tsunami wave far larger than any seen in history. The good news is that Cumbre Vieja will not collapse spontaneously. It would take an eruption to increase the likelihood of this happening. The bad news is that once every few decades, the volcano erupts...
http://www.newscientist.com/nl/1007/drowning.html

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 04:29 PM

It is rather difficult to ignore such obvious archeological history-----this big stone pillar records the location of the even, even put there by Soloman. He used this route for his ships.

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/red_sea_crossing.htm

The Granite Column of Solomon

In 1978, Ron Wyatt and his two sons traveled to the beach at Nuweiba, to dive in the waters of the gulf to search for chariot parts or anything they could find that would identify this site as the genuine location. There at the beach Ron found a 17' tall red granite, Phoenician style column fallen into the edge of the water. Mr. Wyatt showed the column to the Israeli army who were occupying the area at that time, and they promptly set it in concrete. Later he found a matching column on the other side of the gulf in Saudi Arabia with the Hebrew words for Egypt, death, water, pharaoh, Yahweh, and Solomon, and concluded

King Solomon had these columns erected 400 years after the miracle of the crossing of the Red Sea on dry land. Solomon's sea port was at the northern tip of the Gulf of Aqaba at Elath (I Kings 9:26) and he was very familiar with the Red Sea crossing site, as it was in his neighborhood. The Bible even mentions this column! Isaiah 19:19, "In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the Lord at its border." You can visit the beach today and see the column in person, as did this tour group led by Mr. Wyatt.

jayreynolds

03-03-2005, 05:52 PM

http://english.sdaglobal.org/evangelism/arch/redsea.htm

After researching the route that the Israelites might have taken in their exodus from Egypt, Ron Wyatt
On diving down to the sea bed, in 1978, Ron Wyatt and his two sons found and photographed numerous coral encrusted chariot parts. Chariot boxes, horse and human skeletal remains, four, six and eight spoke chariot wheels all lie as a silent testimony to the miracle of the parting of the Red Sea.

Imagine that, human bones from 3400 years ago, still just lying on the sea floor as if the Egyptians just died 1000 years ago.
If you believe THAT, you will believe anything!

Folks, Ron Wyatt is dead and gone to hell for the scam he ran for years. I listened to him many many times on shortwave radio with his wild claims. He always wanted money to go back and dig some more. They were all lies.
http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-AGreatChristianScam.html
http://www.noahsarksearch.com/ronwyatt.htm
It's indeed sad and unfortunate that the Seventh Day Adventist cult is still suckered in to this scam. They insulate themselves from contrarian information and are so paranoid that it makes them vulnerable in the same way chemmies are.

jayreynolds

03-03-2005, 05:58 PM

I like what the Urantia Book has to say, but you're free to accept or reject it.
Who wrote this book?

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 06:25 PM

Isn't it interesting to plug into the Moses god vision the simple term that his god was about the natural effects of volcanoes. When one does that insertion, it all makes for many things becoming clearer. It works real well even going back to Noah and the 40 day and nite floods and the geographical association of that volcano to the Garden of Eden. Moses sure made the association.

Moses even made the association that when the volcanoe he lived near was erupting that it was a good time to take advantage of a natural land bridge and run across it when the pressures were high and the tide was low. I

I was hugely interest in volcanoes back in my days at ORNL and visited many from the ones in the Pacific - Northwest to ones in Arizona, to the super high island ones in Hawaii to the smaller ones in the Eastern Carribean. And in most of those visits I managed to hike to the summits barefoot-----in the tradiation of Moses. Snow Skieing in Hawaii one hour and then surfing in the next was a rare treet granted my this mother volcano there.

As most have spotted, when Tennessee's Ron Wyatt came out with his findings that Mt. Sinai was a volcanoe and that the land bridge was there for the Exodus crossing it was like a sudden rush came that took the issues of religion stories from the tiny mind childhood level stories that most evangelists and rabbis attempt to pawn off on a gullible public, into the realm of a high level of cognitive association that showed volcanoes were what Moses spoke of and used in his god stories.

When one adds in the chemical emissions from volcanoes and their weather making powers as attributed to the Garden of Eden and the times of the Jews living near Midian, it explained a lot. Things made a lot more sense when that simple science and association was made.

In fact, those associations were the Holy Grail of the invention for chemtrails Generation 1. Chemtrails science for Generation 1 is just simply the very same atmospheric chemistry that a volcano imposes on a region to make for climate change via clouds and rain. And via the deposition of acids and metals.

This was the baseline model system for Chemtrails Generation 1 and it came literally right off the pages of the biblical histories.

If mother nature could do that with volcanic releases, then man could fake up similar using jet emissions.

Only children and those that can't mentally process things well believe that a huge flood engulfed the entire planet in the times of Noah. Cause somehow all of Egypt survived and China and India, and lots of places. What those blessed with cognitive reasoning and gifted toward telling the truth would make note of is that the Mt. Ararat volcano could well make for 40 day and nite rains from the eruption chemical effects on the region.

It was certainly possible for Jesus and his followers to make these simple associations. It was even possible for Jesus to have seen the stone pillar making the Crossing site as he traveled to varied locations with his rich mining relative Joseph.

Hence, we have established one of the prime reasons that Jesus so differed with the made up tales on god that the Pharise came to conjur up. It is rather simple a thing to discover and to protest.

And the reason for the propicies of Jesus and his followers expressed in the Revelations. Revelations are the time when the truths come to light. And the truth is these evangelists and rabbis still make up things that are not true and attempt to push them off on a really dumb bunch of humans these days. They sell fairy tales, and not the honest story of their mistakes on what god is and is not.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 06:28 PM

http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/Projects/Emissions/vgas_fsheet.html

WHY STUDY VOLCANIC GAS?
A famous Japanese geochemist, Sadao Matsuo, once said that "Volcanic gas is a telegram from the earth's interior." By studying volcanic gases, volcanologists hope to recognize changes in abundance or composition that might signal reawakening of a dormant volcano or portend an imminent eruption at an already restless volcano.
Another significant component of volcanic gas research involves measuring the quantities of gas that volcanoes release to the atmosphere. Huge amounts of volcanic gas, aerosol droplets, and ash are injected into the stratosphere during major explosive eruptions. Some gases, such as carbon dioxide, contribute to global warming, while others, like sulfur dioxide, can cause global cooling and ozone destruction. Studies of volcanic emissions will allow scientists to compare volcanic gas output to emissions from man-made sources and to assess the effects of both past and future eruptions on Earth's climate.

IS VOLCANIC GAS HAZARDOUS?
Yes, volcanic gas can be harmful to humans, animals, plants, agricultural crops, and property. Usually, the hazards from volcanic gases are restricted to the areas immediately surrounding volcanic vents and fumaroles and to low spots on the flanks of volcanoes. But these hazards can sometimes persist for long distances downwind from a volcano.
Health hazards can range from minor to life threatening. Exposure to acid gases such as sulfur dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, and hydrochloric acid can damage eyes and mucous membranes along with the respiratory system and, under extreme conditions, can lead to death. The toxicity of carbon monoxide is well known, although it is rarely abundant enough to cause serious problems. One of the most serious hazards occurs when volcanoes emit large quantities of carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is heavier than air and collects in low spots, displacing air in these locations. Hundreds of people have died of carbon dioxide asphyxiation near volcanoes in the past two decades, most of them in Cameroon, Africa, and in Indonesia.

Volcanic gases can also severely damage vegetation. Direct exposure to concentrated volcanic gas or long-term exposure to dilute volcanic gas has a lethal effect on most types of foliage.

Fume clouds from volcanoes also contain water droplets in which acid gases have dissolved. These droplets eventually fall to earth as acid rain. Utility lines, farm equipment, cars, and other metal objects corrode when exposed to volcanic gases or acid rain. Persistent acid rain causes galvanized nails or lead solder in water catchment systems to deteriorate and release heavy metals into drinking water. Hydrofluoric acid gas emitted from a volcano can attach itself to ash particles. When these particles fall to earth, there can be serious consequences if ingested by grazing animals.

HOW ARE VOLCANIC GASES STUDIED?
Customarily, gases are collected directly from volcanic fumaroles (vents), then transported to an analytical laboratory for detailed chemical analysis.
A new approach involves installing chemical sensors in or near volcanic vents and linking them to radio telemetry devices to provide a continuous readout on one or more gases. This method can detect significant short-term releases of gas that will usually be missed by occasional sampling.

Finally, emissions of certain gases can be measured in the plume discharging from a volcano. Scientists use an optical spectrometer mounted in an airplane and flown through or beneath a volcanic plume or in a satellite measuring the plume from space. This equipment provides a measure of the total output of one or more gases and is useful in understanding how much volcanic gas is released into the atmosphere.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Image,71K,JPG]
U.S. Geological Survey geochemists sampling gases from the dome at Mount St. Helens.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED?
Studies by scientists at the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) have revealed the compositions and amounts of gases released from several active volcanoes in the U.S. (Alaska, Cascades, Hawaii). As an example, USGS scientists studying the gases of Mount St. Helens have determined that about 2 million tons of sulfur dioxide were emitted between 1980 and 1988. Sensors aboard a satellite detected about 1 million tons of sulfur dioxide injected into the stratosphere during the main eruption on May 18, 1980. Another half-million tons of sulfur dioxide was dissolved in water droplets attached to ash particles that eventually fell to earth. The remaining half-million tons was emitted from the volcano during the eight years following the initial eruption. These measurements allow important comparisons with sulfur dioxide emissions from power plants and other man-made sources.
Careful study of Mount St. Helens' gases using chemical sensors installed on the dome along with airborne measurements of sulfur dioxide revealed periods of increased gas emission prior to four dome-building eruptions during 1984-86. This observation is an important first step in developing the ability to predict eruptions by monitoring gases.

In summary, the study of volcanic gases contributes important new information related to global climate change and may lead to the development of an effective tool for predicting volcanic eruptions.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 06:31 PM

If one looks around one will note that I got Oak Ridge into the CO2 center business, and the nano-technology business, and the volcano research business:

http://www.orau.org/partners/Nov02/orise/wardell.htm

Researcher Has Volcanoes Down Cold

Jean Wardell studies the carbon dioxide emissions of Mt. Erebus in Antarctica by collecting gases in the volcano’s plume and in its fumeroles, at left, towers of ice that form when steam rises from faults to meet the freezing air.

The cold is part of the adventure,” asserts Jean Wardell, who knows a lot about both cold and adventure, spending four to six weeks of each year camped in a tent on the slopes of Antarctica’s Mt. Erebus, an active volcano. During her stays, the average temperate is –20 degrees Centigrade.

Wardell, a doctoral candidate in geochemistry at New Mexico Tech, and other scientists share a small heated hut—a luxury that few camps on the continent have—for cooking and working on sensitive scientific equipment without the encumbrance of gloves. Showers are a luxury they and most others on the ice don’t enjoy at camp.

Wardell studies carbon dioxide and trace metal levels in the gaseous emissions of active volcanoes. “I use a helicopter or small airplane to fly zig-zag through the volcanic plume to do the carbon dioxide measurements. I get to hike all over the volcano making soil and gas measurements. I have so much fun with my research I sometimes feel guilty,” says Wardell.

Scientists, including volcanologists like Wardell, study carbon dioxide because it is a marker that can be used to predict volcanic eruptions and because it contributes to global warming.

According to Wardell, measuring CO2 at Mt. Erebus in particular is important because Erebus is an alkaline volcano, like Mt. Etna, which is known to produce a tremendous amount of carbon dioxide. Scientists therefore suspected that Erebus also emits a lot of CO2, until Wardell’s measurements revealed that “that turns out not to be the case.”

Wardell explains that volcanology is a relatively young field. Volcanic activity, she says, “is credited for past climatic changes in Earth’s history and even the formation of the atmosphere, but we still don’t know its current role.”

“Past estimates of the global contribution of carbon dioxide from volcanoes were based on some very crude estimates made only from a few volcanoes,” explains Wardell. Her direct measurements of active volcanoes will help to update the estimate of global volcanic carbon dioxide emissions.

Carbon dioxide is a key to understanding current climate models which are based on the carbon cycle—a delicately balanced process by which natural and human activities release carbon into the atmosphere while seawater absorbs it and plants use it for photosynthesis.

As scientists try to determine the effect that current human activity is having on the climate, they need first to understand how the climate functioned before human activity was a factor. Researchers currently believe that volcanoes were a major contributor of carbon dioxide before the onset of the industrial era when humans began burning fossil fuel, which contributes carbon to the atmosphere.

For years, missing information has kept scientists from getting a complete picture of the carbon cycle. Volcanic carbon dioxide definitely is a piece of the puzzle; hopefully Wardell can calculate how big a piece it really is.

Making a contribution to science is only part of what draws Wardell to Antarctica, which she describes as “the most beautiful place on earth” and “a wonderful place to do science.”

Wardell used to dream about Antarctica. Then, several years ago, she went to the Imax movie Antarctica the night it opened and quit her job the next day to move to Denver where Antarctica Support Services hires staff to support the work of scientists. “I made the right contact,” she says, “and got to go to work as a civil engineer on environmental cleanup,” removing waste that has accumulated since the beginning of exploration.

After a broken leg kept her from returning for a second season of cleanup, Wardell searched for a new career. “I asked myself ‘What sounds like fun?’” The answer was “volcanoes” and, not surprisingly, the most allure for her was Antarctica’s Mt. Erebus. Wardell explains that the only way to get to Erebus is to be a scientist. So she applied to the Ph.D. program in geochemistry at New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology, where she now studies with Dr. Philip Kyle—“the god of Mt. Erebus,” Wardell interjects—who has done research on the volcano for almost three decades.

In addition to providing others with information that will help perfect current climate models, Wardell has devised a cheap, simple method for measuring trace metals in volcanic emissions that keeps scientists from having to sit on the rim of a volcano in sub-zero temperature for a whole day to take measurements.

Wardell has studied other volcanoes, including White Island in New Zealand, Mt. Kilauea in Hawaii, Yasur Volcano in Vanuatu, Mt. Unzen in Japan, and Karymsky Volcano in Kamchatka, Russia.

Wardell’s work has been supported for three years by a fellowship from the DOE Global Change Education Program administered by the Oak Ridge Institute for Science and Education.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-03-2005, 06:34 PM

Some say god invented chemtrails, but then again the history shows we just copied god in Oak Ridge.

It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to note this volcano magic were the roots of chemtrails magic. However, it does take a person that does not believe in religious fairy tales.

Halva's limited processing skills and tiny mind seem to only support children's fairy tales and ill placed anti-semitism claims.

If anything, my rather simple associations prove what Moses was talking about, just not in the sense that crooked Pharisee, Current stupid greedy Rabbis, and even dumber nd more greedy US evangelists claim as the case for god.

While the vulcan sciences were rather obvious in Rome and Greece in earlier times, we are still looking for intelligent life in Greece these days. If anyone sees a spare brain that works in Greece, we have a donation idea.

=============

Volcanic Gas

Kenneth A. McGee and Terrence M. Gerlach, 1995,
Volcanic Gas: USGS Open-File Report 95-85
In Roman mythology, Vulcan, the god of fire, was said to have made tools and weapons for the other gods in his workshop at Olympus. Throughout history, volcanoes have frequently been identified with Vulcan and other mythological figures. Scientists now know that the "smoke" from volcanoes, once attributed by poets to be from Vulcan's forge, is actually volcanic gas naturally released from both active and many inactive volcanoes.
The molten rock, or magma, that lies beneath volcanoes and fuels eruptions, contains abundant gases that are released to the surface before, during, and after eruptions. These gases range from relatively benign low-temperature steam to thick hot clouds of choking sulfurous fume jetting from the earth.

Water vapor is typically the most abundant volcanic gas, followed by carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide. Other volcanic gases are hydrogen sulfide, hydrochloric acid, hydrogen, carbon monoxide, hydrofluoric acid, and other trace gases and volatile metals. The concentrations of these gas species can vary considerably from one volcano to the next.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Graphic,108K,JPG]
Figure 1. Large volcanic eruptions inject water vapor (H2O), carbon dioxide (CO2), sulfur dioxide (SO2), hydrochloric acid (HCl), hydrofluoric acid (HF) and ash (pulverized rock and pumice) into the stratosphere. CO2 is a greenhouse gas and contributes to global warming. HCl and HF can dissolve in water and fall to the earth as acid rain. Most of the SO2 is slowly converted to sulfuric acid (H2SO4), which condenses into a mist of fine particles. These sulfate aerosols reflect radiation from the Sun, cooling the troposphere; they also absorb the Earth's heat, warming the stratosphere. The aerosols also promote ozone destruction by altering chlorine and nitrogen chemical species in the stratosphere. As the aerosols settle down into the upper troposphere, they can serve as nuclei for cirrus clouds, further affecting the Earth's radiation balance. (figure modified from Richard Turco in American Geophysical Union Special Report: Volcanism and Climate Change, May 1992)

Boomer Chick

03-03-2005, 07:14 PM

Who wrote this book?

I don't have time to explain it all to you. The best rendition and most honest depiction of the orgin of the book is Ernest Moyer's study below. These other links are to give you some idea of the various interpretations and reactions to the book. Those who care enough to investigate can easily do a google search and come up with dozens of sites and pages.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0879759550/104-7608310-8982353

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0966670531/104-7608310-8982353?v=glance

http://www.urantiabook.org/sources/

http://skepdic.com/urantia.html

http://www.randomhouse.com/knopf/authors/gooch/excerpt.html

------------------------------------------------------

Best One by Ernest Moyers (click on "The Birth of a Divine Revelation" ) This man has studied intensively the historical documents and lives of the men and women surrounding the birth of the U Book.

http://www.world-destiny.org/

_____________________________________

If you run across the name of Dr. Meredith Sprunger, I have met him and his wife and we correspond at Christmas. My husband was a member of Sprunger's study group in Ft. Wayne, Indiana, when my dh was in his late teens. We do not belong to a study group now, but have in the past.

I don't need anyone to tell me this world wide study of the U Book is a cult and should be debunked. It does not claim to be a religion nor proposes that anyone follow it in a religious grouping. Most people who read the U Book are members of organized churches of various kinds and many of the readers are above average in intelligence.

Thanks.

BC

Boomer Chick

03-03-2005, 07:38 PM

The Urantia Book -- Part II. The Local Universe
PAPER 41: Section 6.

Calcium -- The Wanderer Of Space

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.ubfellowship.org/newbook/ppr041_6.html

P461:5, 41:6.1 In deciphering spectral phenomena, it should be remembered that space is not empty; that light, in traversing space, is sometimes slightly modified by the various forms of energy and matter which circulate in all organized space. Some of the lines indicating unknown matter which appear in the spectra of your sun are due to modifications of well-known elements which are floating throughout space in shattered form, the atomic casualties of the fierce encounters of the solar elemental battles. Space is pervaded by these wandering derelicts, especially sodium and calcium.

P461:6, 41:6.2 Calcium is, in fact, the chief element of the matter-permeation of space throughout Orvonton. Our whole superuniverse is sprinkled with minutely pulverized stone. Stone is literally the basic building matter for the planets and spheres of space. The cosmic cloud, the great space blanket, consists for the most part of the modified atoms of calcium. The stone atom is one of the most prevalent and persistent of the elements. It not only endures solar ionization -- splitting -- but persists in an associative identity even after it has been battered by the destructive X rays and shattered by the high solar temperatures. Calcium possesses an individuality and a longevity excelling all of the more common forms of matter.

P462:1, 41:6.3 As your physicists have suspected, these mutilated remnants of solar calcium literally ride the light beams for varied distances, and thus their widespread dissemination throughout space is tremendously facilitated. The sodium atom, under certain modifications, is also capable of light and energy locomotion. The calcium feat is all the more remarkable since this element has almost twice the mass of sodium. Local space-permeation by calcium is due to the fact that it escapes from the solar photosphere, in modified form, by literally riding the outgoing sunbeams. Of all the solar elements, calcium, notwithstanding its comparative bulk -- containing as it does twenty revolving electrons -- is the most successful in escaping from the solar interior to the realms of space. This explains why there is a calcium layer, a gaseous stone surface, on the sun six thousand miles thick; and this despite the fact that nineteen lighter elements, and numerous heavier ones, are underneath.

P462:2, 41:6.4 Calcium is an active and versatile element at solar temperatures. The stone atom has two agile and loosely attached electrons in the two outer electronic circuits, which are very close together. Early in the atomic struggle it loses its outer electron; whereupon it engages in a masterful act of juggling the nineteenth electron back and forth between the nineteenth and twentieth circuits of electronic revolution. By tossing this nineteenth electron back and forth between its own orbit and that of its lost companion more than twenty-five thousand times a second, a mutilated stone atom is able partially to defy gravity and thus successfully to ride the emerging streams of light and energy, the sunbeams, to liberty and adventure. This calcium atom moves outward by alternate jerks of forward propulsion, grasping and letting go the sunbeam about twenty-five thousand times each second. And this is why stone is the chief component of the worlds of space. Calcium is the most expert solar-prison escaper.

P462:3, 41:6.5 The agility of this acrobatic calcium electron is indicated by the fact that, when tossed by the temperature-X-ray solar forces to the circle of the higher orbit, it only remains in that orbit for about one one- millionth of a second; but before the electric-gravity power of the atomic nucleus pulls it back into its old orbit, it is able to complete one million revolutions about the atomic center.

P462:4, 41:6.6 Your sun has parted with an enormous quantity of its calcium, having lost tremendous amounts during the times of its convulsive eruptions in connection with the formation of the solar system. Much of the solar calcium is now in the outer crust of the sun.

P462:5, 41:6.7 It should be remembered that spectral analyses show only sun-surface compositions. For example: Solar spectra exhibit many iron lines, but iron is not the chief element in the sun. This phenomenon is almost wholly due to the present temperature of the sun's surface, a little less than 6,000 degrees, this temperature being very favorable to the registry of the iron spectrum.

____________________________________________

While I was researching on my new science search engine, I found this article which seems to confirm what the U Book is saying about Calcium. I'm sure a more educated physics and chemistry person could better realize the correlations or the mistakes in my assessment.

http://techreports.jpl.nasa.gov/2001/01-1271.pdf

_____________________________________________

I know it's kind of off topic, but while we're talking about theories and various cosmologies, I couldn't help but notice this synchronicity. At the time of the origin of the U Book none of this kind of science was known.

FATHINATINK !!!

BC

Boomer Chick

03-03-2005, 08:15 PM

For Stu:

When did Jesus Die on the Cross?

http://www.world-destiny.org/40die.htm

A great treatise on the time element .... very scholarly.

BC

halva

03-03-2005, 09:15 PM

Enjoy yourself Raynolds. It is you who have been co-opted by Jim Phelps now. The thread has acquired a new content.

And you are the one who is not given permission to leave.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 02:25 AM

If one knows the biblical stories well, then one may well note the book opens with discussions of the volcanic effects domination of life on planet Earth and the very long lifespans of the early times and closes with a sentence in Revelations about angels tossing flaming mountains into the ocean, aka volcano. Pretty obvious to most, the symbol of a volcano.

Seemingly, it would appear that those of intelligence these days who can cast off the nursery rhymes and those in the old days who were close to Jesus, all know the real theme in the bible texts is about this dominate natural order effect on Earth that in those times were called a god, and one who gave of life.

Truely, knowing the volcanic cycles laid down the Earth's atmosphere and set up the soil's trace metals nutrients is really important in the grand scheme of things. But in this days time, it is a little hoaky to make the volcanic cycles into god, but it was a huge discovery in those times. It is still quite important today.

And if one looks closely at these things, one can find that the fluorine part of that cycle and the manna effects would go a long way toward making the Jews of Exodus the Chosen People of that flavor of god. And that those that knew that special metals trick to survive the omnipresent health effects of fluorine on the human body would have a special advantage in life.

It was such a secret that become the greatest of the Holy Grails, the big secret that Jesus discovered, and the one still veiled today.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 02:51 AM

Guess Halva does not learn easily, and the world revolves only around himself.
A Christ's message suppressor makes threats:

"Jim Phelps if you don't stop slagging me off publicly at Arianna's I will start privately spamming you.

It just happens that I have other priorities to you.

I have helped you strengthen your position at Arianna's, particularly vis a vis BC who didn't even want to talk to you at first.

So have a little consideration and just shut up with your comments about me."

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 03:12 AM

Halva writes:

"Enjoy yourself Raynolds. It is you who have been co-opted by Jim Phelps now. The thread has acquired a new content.

And you are the one who is not given permission to leave."

================

Yes, the discussion on chemtrails and climate change has acquired lots of new content, but some very old content as well. It is an awakening.

Now, folks are seeing how the invention for chemtrials literally came from right out of the pages of the bible texts and the associations with volcanic cycles and how they worked. These were my observations and science contributions at ORNL in the mid-80s. It began with an interest in volcanoes, and then the science behind them setting up the patterns seen in the biblical histories. How this showed climate change patterns, then vs now. It was quite the discovery, and one that made rounds all over the DOE.

I happen to favor speaking of these chemtrails inventions in terms of what a lot of people in the US identify with---the Christ----this is a Christian Nation largely. So, I like to teach chemtrails from the point of view of these old texts of religion, which is in fact, part of the invention of the chemtrails technques. Mother Nature, the natural order, the god of Moses facination was doing these things ever since the planet started. All I did was tap into this same process and suggest ways to modify the metastatic balances for it-----thus chemtrails was born right off the pages of the bible itself.

There appear to be some that want to battle that exposing this sort of science behind religion as being anti-semetic, but these persons are of tiny bigoted minds. Exposing the science that supports things like why Moses made his visions on god connected with Mt. Sinai are most important to the understanding of both Christ and Moses, as both are considered enlightened persons in religion.

Discussing why and how they came to be enlightened is proper for both the discussion of religion and really the discussions for chemtrails and climate change. These comparisons lie at the literal root for support of these thesis.

jayreynolds

03-04-2005, 03:44 AM

I don't have time to explain it all to you.
Sounds like a cop-out. I haven't and don't intend to pay much attention to it.
Yes, it sounds like a cult.

jayreynolds

03-04-2005, 03:51 AM

Enjoy yourself Raynolds. It is you who have been co-opted by Jim Phelps now. The thread has acquired a new content.

And you are the one who is not given permission to leave.

Hey, Wayne, the further afield my buddy Jimbo goes, and you people buy into it, who am I to complain? He's evidently off his meds again, gone manic now......................

jayreynolds

03-04-2005, 04:00 AM

Now, folks are seeing how the invention for chemtrials literally came from right out of the pages of the bible texts and the associations with volcanic cycles and how they worked. These were my observations and science contributions at ORNL in the mid-80s. It began with an interest in volcanoes, and then the science behind them setting up the patterns seen in the biblical histories. How this showed climate change patterns, then vs now. It was quite the discovery, and one that made rounds all over the DOE..
What I find so fascinating is how Jim Phelps could have a chance to testify before the Senate five years ago, before he had heard of "chemtrails", and not mention any of this at all!
http://www.downwinders.org/Jim%20Phelps.htm

What brought about your concept of these revelations, Jimbo?
I really am curious as to why you have decided to grace us with all his knowledge.
What is it you really hope to accomplish?

Would you be willing to go on national TV and give this presentation as a lecture over several nights?

This might be possible, as I have connections with a televangelism network who might be interested in hosting you.

Let me know.
Jay

jayreynolds

03-04-2005, 04:21 AM

I decided to do a little survey and found that while some people used the original source, others bought the incorrect Denver Post version:
MSNBC-
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7052516/

this article is related, and if ozone depletion by the cosmic ray/NOx mechanism is found significant, who's to say it doesn't happen in the ANTARCTIC, which is a subject all these "Arctic" articles seem to be dodging??????
http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/39261;_QRmDn2zx

Note, the stratosphere is cooling. The reason why the stratosphere heats up at all, is because when UV forms ozone, some of the absorbed energy is converted to heat. If this cosmic depletion reduces ozone, yes, you would expect the stratosphere to be cooler. Yes, I know, Jimbo will claim it's all due to the Revelations, but that is HOT AIR, which would heat the stratosphere, not cool it!

halva

03-04-2005, 04:33 AM

Hey, Wayne, the further afield my buddy Jimbo goes, and you people buy into it, who am I to complain? He's evidently off his meds again, gone manic now......................

We people buy into it!! As I said, given the lack of more reliable information from the official sources whose duty it is supposed to be to keep citizens informed on matters of environmental safety and public health, Jim Phelps' relevant writings are being scrutinised.

But he really wants to hold Bible study lessons here. So be it. Enjoy them.

He is not the only person on this thread interested in the religious debate so it may well displace the original topic and what would be wrong with that?

halva

03-04-2005, 04:36 AM

Would you be willing to go on national TV and give this presentation as a lecture over several nights?

This might be possible, as I have connections with a televangelism network who might be interested in hosting you.

Let me know.
Jay

Take him up on it, Jim Phelps!!!!.

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 06:38 AM

Phelps quoted throughout:

I was hugely interest in volcanoes back in my days at ORNL and visited many from the ones in the Pacific - Northwest to ones in Arizona, to the super high island ones in Hawaii to the smaller ones in the Eastern Carribean. And in most of those visits I managed to hike to the summits barefoot-----in the tradiation of Moses. Snow Skieing in Hawaii one hour and then surfing in the next was a rare treet granted my this mother volcano there.

Barefoot, heh? The obsidian didn't slash your feet into a bloody pulp, heh? How wonderful that you had time and money to travel to visit the various volcanoes and calderas. The one in Arizona, could you give me its name? I'm not familiar with that one....must be rather extinct. In our rockies quite a few mountains were volcanically formed and traveling along the HWY 50 along the Arkansas River you can view huge ancient calderas. Wow, your Hawaiin ski-surf experience really rocked!

As most have spotted, when Tennessee's Ron Wyatt came out with his findings that Mt. Sinai was a volcanoe and that the land bridge was there for the Exodus crossing it was like a sudden rush came that took the issues of religion stories from the tiny mind childhood level stories that most evangelists and rabbis attempt to pawn off on a gullible public, into the realm of a high level of cognitive association that showed volcanoes were what Moses spoke of and used in his god stories. Well, Ron Wyatt attracted many detractors, in other words, his findings haven't been deemed as reputable, but at least he was open to finding truth in his own way. His one wheel, though, only evidences that an Egyptian chariot was found in that area -- no proof as to how it got there, whether it was involved in any intercourse with Hebrew populations, and thought the dating can locate its time in history, one wheel does not a whole historical event make. All one can say is that the chariot wheel existed in the approximate time it was carbon dated. Many other people have come up with similar and different theories of the time of Moses. I thought you would at least notice that the archaeological and geological studies are rife with varying theoretical views. I also posted that some very notable modern rabbis are debunking their own historical myths.... just as you in general are realizing that there are scientific and logical explanations for many of our Biblical stories. It seems logical to me that Moses, tasked with the daunting leadership challenges, used the volcanic eruptions to instill a fear of God in order to unify and keep his various groups from various belief backgrounds focused on the one God and thus unified. It also seems logical and quite human as well as God-consciously motivated, that later when his tribes were settled and functioning, he could temper the fear message and jealous God message, to a more loving one.

When one adds in the chemical emissions from volcanoes and their weather making powers as attributed to the Garden of Eden and the times of the Jews living near Midian, it explained a lot. Things made a lot more sense when that simple science and association was made.

How the Garden of Eden is related to volcanism is a totally new one to me. Please explain that one when you have time. WHAT made a lot more sense? What makes sense to me is that natural geologic events that couldn't have possibly been understood as such were believed to be "Acts of God" . This is so primal that when I read the Old Testament in my 20's I knew instinctively that this kind of thought process in ancient humans was at work. Reading about Aztecs in 8th grade, I saw the same anthropomorphism at work. What's not to realize here? Even the burning bush scenario can be explained by science. Maybe to a child brought up to believe in the Old Testament and all of its stories as TRUE, the revelation of natural cataclysims and volcanisms impinging upon man's ancient mind as God-induced punishments or rewards would seem a revolutionary concept -- but not to me and many who had the advantage of not being indoctrinated into Biblical dogma. The ancient Hebrews were no different than many of the ancient peoples except in their most evolved- in- comparison belief in ONE God, the God and creator of all which contrasted markedly from polytheism. This was an advancement in evolutionary spiritual concept.

In fact, those associations were the Holy Grail of the invention for chemtrails Generation 1. Chemtrails science for Generation 1 is just simply the very same atmospheric chemistry that a volcano imposes on a region to make for climate change via clouds and rain. And via the deposition of acids and metals.

So far your theory of volcanic connected climate mitigation seems an empty premise. Why? If the chemtrails as you say are modeled after the volcanic chemistry and if that chemistry indeed cooled the planet, blanketing it with particulates and creating massive storms and rain, why is the opposite happening with the so-called chemtrail blanketing? The cirrus clouds formed by chemtrails rather than cool and created more cumulous clouds which are the cooling and raining types, instead contribtue to global radiative heating by keeping in the earth's heat? What's so brilliant here? Besides, if it was an attempt to cool the earth and create more precipitation, why not attempt to cover the whole globe? The aviation contrails only cover two continents. When you look at the maps and the satellite pictures, the cirrus cloud cover only exists over the air traffic corridors most heavily populated. The metals part you have not been able to prove conclusively. I've been reading all your posts and comparing your posts to known chemistry and it's just not panning out.

This was the baseline model system for Chemtrails Generation 1 and it came literally right off the pages of the biblical histories.

If mother nature could do that with volcanic releases, then man could fake up similar using jet emissions.

Again, the effect you seem to imply is not the one that's actually occuring.

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 07:00 AM

Only children and those that can't mentally process things well believe that a huge flood engulfed the entire planet in the times of Noah. Cause somehow all of Egypt survived and China and India, and lots of places. What those blessed with cognitive reasoning and gifted toward telling the truth would make note of is that the Mt. Ararat volcano could well make for 40 day and nite rains from the eruption chemical effects on the region.

Inconclusive date regarding Mt. Ararat as a volcano. You need more substantive proof for your assertion. Two articles I posted contradict your information regarding Mt. Ararat.

It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to note this volcano magic were the roots of chemtrails magic. However, it does take a person that does not believe in religious fairy tales.

Yes, volcanoes existed and influenced man's thinking regarding God. But the chemical components of volcanic releases are just what they are today -- weather changing and cloud influencing, but not psychically nor physiologically directly affecting humans' thinking. Of course one could look at how volcanoes changed the atmosphere and try to emulate it..... but why? Why would anyone want to blanket the world with particulates, lowering the earth's sunlight, affecting crops, and pushing particulates into the highest levels of the atmosphere? Volcanic emissions from the largest explosions go far higher than any of our planes fly, anyway. And as I said, the cirrus clouds do nothing to cool. It makes no sense, IS... I'm sorry. Volcano magic? What magic? It is simply a natural event, produces gases of all kinds, and ash, and dust and benefits the plant life with more rich soils, but not a boon to humans. If you find volcanoes magical, please explain what you deem as "magic" or beneficial, please.

And if one looks closely at these things, one can find that the fluorine part of that cycle and the manna effects would go a long way toward making the Jews of Exodus the Chosen People of that flavor of god. And that those that knew that special metals trick to survive the omnipresent health effects of fluorine on the human body would have a special advantage in life. This whole metals thing is still not making sense. The metals didn't make Hebrews anything. It was Moses and others who taught the one God theory that made them special, not metals. And I keep trying to find support for your Flourine theories and simply can't find it. What was that manna theory again? Volcanic ash was a form of manna? Was that it? The ash was eaten? The ash was mixed into the food? The ash was used to fertilize crops? Weren't the Hebrews herders of animals and not really agricultural in lifestyle? They probably grew things, but not like the Egyptians along the Nile at the time. Living in the desert wasn't that condusive to growing plants. And so God is a "flavor" now? Hmmmm, let's order up some strawberry/key lime God-flavor right now! Yum! LOL! What you imply here is a physiological connection to metals from volcano emissions as somehow stimulative of spiritual development. It's just not holding any kind of logic to me. Metals can promote health, build strong bones, increase the body's immune system, and help cellular functioning, but that doesn't mean the brain and mind will think of God or believe in God. And if you're saying that Jews have a built in genetic adaptation ability from the early days of volcanism -- what scientific datea do you have on which to base your conclusions? Do the metallic elements get passed on through genetics? I've never heard of mettalic elements as part of the DNA or influenced by DNA. Each person born has to acquire the metals from the environment as far as I know. I did take college Anatomy and Physiology and this metal/physiology theory makes no scientific sense. Besides, considering the volcanoes in the times of Moses, there were many other peoples exposed besides the Hebrews of that day. Volcanos are not selective in their raining particulates!

Now, folks are seeing how the invention for chemtrials literally came from right out of the pages of the bible texts and the associations with volcanic cycles and how they worked. These were my observations and science contributions at ORNL in the mid-80s. It began with an interest in volcanoes, and then the science behind them setting up the patterns seen in the biblical histories. How this showed climate change patterns, then vs now. It was quite the discovery, and one that made rounds all over the DOE. I'm sure scientists saw the volcanic effects upon weather regardless of being shown Biblical connections. The historic data from the 1800s and recent volcanic eruptions taught scientists enough about the gases released and their effects upon the atmophere. Somehow your influence in the whole study of volcanism seems hyper-egoistic and so far unproven. You may have indeed worked where you said you did, but your influence on scientific advancement and the actuality of chemtrails as modeled on your advice -- lacks foundational evidence, lacks chemtrail- as- purposeful elemental spraying proof, and overall as observed consequences of so-called chemtrail purposes as you state them -- lacks any efficacy to the claims whatsoever. Aviation-induced cirrus cloud production does the opposite in terms of your predicted outcome. The chemical elements are also missing. The Flourine and Hydrogen Flouride connection is missing. So I have no other option at this point than to say you have your right to your theories, you have your right to connect your volcanism to weather phenomena, and you have your right to your theories. But those who read what you write need not agree with you nor do they need to believe you are who you say you are in regard to the various technologies you purport to be instrumental in furthering. It's OK, though, by me, to share your various propositions, theories, and statements. I find them overall quite interesting even if lacking in credible, verifiable truth in most instances. Such theories and statements are like a bundle of wires with dozens of connections but only a few out of the bundle have reliable working connections that aren't short circuited or dead wires for one reason or another.

But please feel free to continue to connect and reconnect your wires! ;)

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 07:51 AM

Well BC,

Lets send you on a homework assignment to attempt to cure your state of no science background. Which means you just simply can't connect science or wires logically.

Learning requires books doesn't it, and maybe even an english college dictionary. You appear to really need to buy one of "Random House's" "The American College Dictionary," so that you can look up defintions and establish given knowledge by definition.

First step: Go buy yourself a "Hawley's Condensed Chemical Dictionary" for reference, so you can read and understand the properties of hundreds of chemical compounds and observe which are hygorscopic. Look up the metal sulfur and chlorine compounds and make a chart.

Next step: Do a real simple models test and take nano particles of alumina and dump them into air at 40,000 ft that is loaded with sulfuric and hyrdochloric acid due to coal emissions and tell me at the end of the day, which compounds would aluminum be apt to form.

Next step: Look up a chart of all the known volcanoes on the planet and look for one down there next to Turkey and the very distinct form of a volcanoes shape. Then look up in the dictionary the word Ararat. Mine says a volcanic mountain, which is a given by defintion that any person should know. Get a photo of the Mountain and compare its land mass with other volcanoes. Look up the ranking of volcanoes by mass and height.

Next step: Then start thinking about how volcanoes tend to follow rift zones. Look up the East African Rift Zone and follow the dots of volcanoes along its border. Then look at how and where the rift crosses the Gulf of Aqaba near Midian.

Next step: When a volcano is erupting, what happens to plate forces like the ones at the red sea crossing? Do the land masses move at the Rift? How many volcanoes are along the red sea?

Next step: We know the area around Midian is a desert these days, and it likely could not support the exodus numbers of people there. So, one must suppose that if they were supported there by growing things----then something like a volcanoes emissions had to be forcing climate change factors and things like increased rainfall.

Start there and we shall see if you have any potential for wiring associations besides being in a perpetual state of dumb.

Recall, I said you do have to have a lot of smarts to get into this conversation and I would tell people when they don't. You have to do your homework before going on at length about how dumb you are-----else I will point it out. You do know how to use a dictionary don't you? It is a primary test for dumb. When you skip a given defintion----the reading is dumb.

It may well be unreasonable to think a woman that sits at home all day can be taught to learn these things, with zero training in wire connecting. And aparently in looking in the dictionary. You see, learning does take a few books, the ability to learn, and weeks of research to learn things sometimes. Learning is not given by abilties to run on, at length, on how little you know.

halva

03-04-2005, 08:19 AM

Jim Phelps, as you know I am even dumber and definitely more ignorant than BC, but I am reading your explanation to her and I am glad that you have taken on this educational task. BC knows what questions to ask, but I will also be reading your answers.

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 08:51 AM

Nice try, IS ! Problem is, IS, you avoid answering questions, avoid listing your confirming scientific articles, and as to be expected, you respond with the retort of stupidity. I'm not calling you stupid. I'm merely giving feedback on what you wrote.

But with YOUR temper, you need to concentrate step by step on your theories and be able to correlate them with ongoing chem. knowledge and validate them to others. If you were to write a book on the subject of your theories, you would HAVE to present confirming evidence and at least correct equations and your plate techtonics was a good one for the substantiation of your volcano theory (but no links for maps or anything -- just your word) but for any of the other points, you only produce a hanging wire.

As I said, you're free to ramble, but if you want to teach and you want to be heard, you had better get your intellectual a** in gear. Responding with: "you're too dumb to comprehend my theory" when your theory doesn't kick any intellectual a** at all...... seriously wounds any shred of credibility you have left. Everytime I think you have a backup, a stream of logic, an indication of chemistry fact .... I am disappointed again. No, IS, it is not the reader who needs an adjustment, it is you who needs to give logic and support to your theories. You may think what you have is enough, but it's not.

If you would take the time to answer my questions.... each one.... you might find the task of teaching to be one of learning as well. Are you beyond learning? Teachers who can't be learners anymore are stuck in holes.... quantum vacuums of dull dead spacegunk refusing to unclump and move on!

To just insist that you know more than someone else ..... just isn't how the academic world operates. Sources, confirmation of theories regarding evidence, logical rhetoric, correlated and parallel peer experiments, accurate factual data, documented experimentation, documented evidence for scientific accreditation, or just an admitting that your theory is just your theory and it may not be probable ... would be sufficient.

Now, on the psychological ramifications of your response, I'd say you're doing a fair amount of "projecting." "American College Dictionary? You're saying that to an English major? You're too hilarious!

You really could and should have done a better job responding to my responses, don't you think? Don't you think the challenge of the moment for you was to refute all of my maddening statements and reconfirm your own theory parts that I shot down? THAT would have been an act of intellectual courage! And, if you had accomplished it, you could sit there and say that you taught ME something. But instead, you lapse into an anger mode. Do you have PTSD, brain chemistry problems from toxic chemical exposure, or a form of Autism? Seriously, do you? I would totally understand if you were to admit and reveal your true physical and mental condition. In fact, I would have compassion and love for you as a sister to a brother who suffers. I would send angels of healing, angels of comfort, and angels of joy. Until then, I will compel you to your intellectual task.

Now what do you have to say?

BC :p

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 09:06 AM

Halva writes:

Jim Phelps, as you know I am even dumber and definitely more ignorant than BC, but I am reading your explanation to her and I am glad that you have taken on this educational task. BC knows what questions to ask, but I will also be reading your answers.

===========

You are incredibly frustrating at times. I am used to being around very highly educated people that know these issues pretty well. It is like common knowledge around here.

Yes, it might mean that some have to go to a university research library to read the needed materials to being learning. Some of it is on the Internet, some not.

I did the footwork in learning it by going to the UT and ORNL research libs in the 80s. There was not Internet to speak of then.

One thing that should be easy for anyone to establish is that Mt. Ararat is a volcano, and it is generally ranked as the largest land mass volcano in the world. I mean one can literally look up the word Ararat in the dictionary and find the defintion plainly states it is a volcanic mountain.
However, at least one person here can't seem to even do that. Which might mean that if things are to that low a level of ability that it should be considered fruitless to proceed.

There are levels of profound stupidity that one should not waste the time to modify. It should be an absolute given that Mt. Ararat is a volcano. When the discussions can't even establish this simple fact with BC, then there is little reason to keep on. That is called profoundly stupid at that point.

Seeming, some persons expect me to sit down and do days of Internet searching for them to begin to be educated at the levels to begin. I can tell you now, that just isn't going to happen. If your interest is real and you want to learn----you do the footwork and learning---and I'll tell where to look and why to look. If at some point down the line, someone begins to make intelligent remarks they will get good interactive discussions going.

As for a free long long seminar on the Internet with me doing all the leg work while lazy mouths like BC complain, she can get off the internet and go to the library. Give everyone a break from this loading us down with her slow education process with all this cut and paste stuff going all over the place. If she can't focus and follow the learning of the baseline atmospheric issues, then there is no place to start.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 09:13 AM

BC writes:

Now what do you have to say?

==========

Get a Random House Dictionary -- "The American Colledge Dictionary."

Look up the word Ararat and write down the defintion here to Arianna's forum to read.

Then go sit in the corner a while, with the dunce cap.

Then we will decide if you can complete another simple learning task. Which I am beginning to doubt.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 09:52 AM

Persons like BC are literally too dumb to look up the definition of Ararat in the dictionary. School kids I know, who know the bible tale of Noah, know Ararat is a volcano.

Intelligent persons that know the story of Noah also know the Mt is a volcano.

And it is thus common knowledge.

Even easily established with photos, etc. on the internet.

Seeming intelligence is missing in the state of Colorado.

http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/img_ararat.html

Ararat, Turkey
Location: 39.70 N, 44.28 E
Elevation: 16,940 feet, 5,165 m

Space Shuttle Image taken 9.14.94

Ararat is the largest and highest (16,940 feet, 5,165 m) volcano in Turkey. Ararat is a stratovolcano and is located at 39.7N, 44.3E. In this image, north is to the lower left. The border with Armenia is 10 miles (16 kilometers) from the summit and is roughly along the left edge of the image. Ararat has not erupted in historic time. The most recent eruption was probably in the last 10,000 years. The volcano is thought to be the resting place of Noah's ark. The observation of vessel-shaped features in aerial photographs of Ararat caused a stir in the late 1950s. Expeditions found the features to be landslides and lava flows.

The cause of volcanism in eastern Turkey has not been established. Some geologists argue that the Arabian plate is being subducted beneath the Eurasian plate. However, the region lacks moderate and deep earthquake activity common to most subduction zones. An alternative model proposes renewed subduction of continental lithosphere. A third model proposes that volcanism is related to shear along the contact of the two plates.

Image Source: The Earth Observation Images at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas.

stuart_allsop

03-04-2005, 10:03 AM

Most likely, many miracles of the past in time will be actually scientifically explainable.Well of course they will! The Bible makes it VERY clear that God often chooses to use the forces of nature to accomplish his intentions. How else woud he do it? What other mechanicsm could he possibly use?

And of course, thre are jsut as many miracels that will NEVER be explained by science, simply becuase they are miracles.

As even Jesus's miracles of healing, his rising from the tomb, his return in another body type, and other feats, even his psychic abilities will someday be shown to be energies and abilities that more advanced spiritual beings possess well within the bounds of logical and God-created physics. Well, sorry to tell you, boomer, but something that is within the "the bounds of logical and God-created physics" and can be reproduced at will by man, by definition is not a "miracel" now is it? :)

Besides, there is no need to go running around on a wild goose chase to find scientifcally acceptable explanations for "miracles", whether or not they are "within the bounds of logical and God-created physics":: All you need to do is just use a little faith, and admit that God did it.
[/QUOTE]

stuart_allsop

03-04-2005, 10:09 AM

[b]You decide, but please don't adopt your theories and attempt to push them down anyone's throat! I may believe in Jesus Christ, but I don't force my belief on others. Then you are not following the direct orders that Jesus gave you.

stuart_allsop

03-04-2005, 10:16 AM

Isn't it interesting to plug into the Moses god vision ...
And the reason for the propicies of Jesus and his followers expressed in the Revelations. Revelations are the time when the truths come to light. And the truth is these evangelists and rabbis still make up things that are not true and attempt to push them off on a really dumb bunch of humans these days. They sell fairy tales, and not the honest story of their mistakes on what god is and is not.Jimbo, I'm sorry, but you are so far gone, so far beyond help, that it is a pointless pursuit to even try to help you. I don't have the time or the inclination. All that I can suggest is taht you spend some time in honest prayer, honest reflect, and honest Bible study. Beyond that, there is nothing more I can do for your groequely distorted view of Israel and of Christianity, except to pray for you, which I will do.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 10:18 AM

http://www.caap.org/mailbag/jack-980730.html

NASA: Jets interfere with weather patterns and contribute to global warming.

For more information: Jack Saporito, US-CITIZENS AVIATION WATCH

ARLINGTON HEIGHTS, IL—There they go again...and yet another blow to Washington’s worrisome aviation bills to massively increase aircraft traffic, probably double, within the next 10-12 years.

NBC News aired a segment on July 27, 1998, called “JetStream”. NBC News correspondent Robert Hager interviewed NASA scientists who believe that commercial jet airliners emit vapor contrails (jet streams) which cause massive clouds to form under moist conditions. Those are the vapor trails from aircraft we have all seen. The clouds shown on radar where from 60 to 800 miles long, just after a few hours and a few jets! One can only imagine what the thousands of aircraft a day do.

It seems that it is sulfur in the aviation fuel that forms the clouds. The number of cloudy days has increased over the last thirty years and NASA suspects that much of it is because of increasing air traffic.

They believe that the “contrail clouds” can interfere with weather patterns and contribute to global warming.

The question real is: What serious damage will the predicted massive increases in aviation within the next 10-12 years do to our climate?

............

NBC news cast: http://www.msnbc.com/news/183407.asp#BODY

NASA contrails: http://cloud1.arc.nasa.gov/espo/success/index.html

The gentlemen interviewed from NASA were: Patrick Minnis, scientist and Bruce Anderson, researcher.

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 10:19 AM

Well of course they will! The Bible makes it VERY clear that God often chooses to use the forces of nature to accomplish his intentions. How else woud he do it? What other mechanicsm could he possibly use?

And of course, thre are jsut as many miracels that will NEVER be explained by science, simply becuase they are miracles.

Well, sorry to tell you, boomer, but something that is within the "the bounds of logical and God-created physics" and can be reproduced at will by man, by definition is not a "miracel" now is it? :)

Besides, there is no need to go running around on a wild goose chase to find scientifcally acceptable explanations for "miracles", whether or not they are "within the bounds of logical and God-created physics":: All you need to do is just use a little faith, and admit that God did it.
[/QUOTE]

I didn't say I was going to go around and prove that various miracles are indeed scientific or spiritual fluency with energies. I just accept what Jesus said regarding our ability to someday do what he can do. This tells me that eventually we will be able to perform many of the miracles he performed. That's all. I have a lot of faith! I do admit that the Son of God did it! I've had my own miraculous experiences as well, you might recall. And they weren't of my own creation that's for sure!

BC ;)

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 10:23 AM

http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/volc_images/img_ararat.html

Ararat, Turkey
Location: 39.70 N, 44.28 E
Elevation: 16,940 feet, 5,165 m

Space Shuttle Image taken 9.14.94

Ararat is the largest and highest (16,940 feet, 5,165 m) volcano in Turkey. Ararat is a stratovolcano and is located at 39.7N, 44.3E. In this image, north is to the lower left. The border with Armenia is 10 miles (16 kilometers) from the summit and is roughly along the left edge of the image. Ararat has not erupted in historic time. The most recent eruption was probably in the last 10,000 years. The volcano is thought to be the resting place of Noah's ark. The observation of vessel-shaped features in aerial photographs of Ararat caused a stir in the late 1950s. Expeditions found the features to be landslides and lava flows.

The cause of volcanism in eastern Turkey has not been established. Some geologists argue that the Arabian plate is being subducted beneath the Eurasian plate. However, the region lacks moderate and deep earthquake activity common to most subduction zones. An alternative model proposes renewed subduction of continental lithosphere. A third model proposes that volcanism is related to shear along the contact of the two plates.

Image Source: The Earth Observation Images at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas.

THANK YOU!

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 10:24 AM

BC writes:

Inconclusive date regarding Mt. Ararat as a volcano. You need more substantive proof for your assertion. Two articles I posted contradict your information regarding Mt. Ararat.
================

This is why I call BC profoundly stupid. Ararat is defined in the dictionary as a volcano. In every volcano book all over the planet, Mt. Ararat is a volcano.

It is even identified as a volcanic mtn from the space shuttle, from its profile, from the deposits around the mtn. It is unmistakably a volcano.

Profound idiots argue with widely accepted definitions, and with this level of profound stupidity demonstrated here with BC, there can be no intelligent discussion.

Only the observation she is as dumb as they come. Screwing up something this obvious is pathetic, scientifically insane. She can't even get obvious things correct.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 10:58 AM

A world volcanic map:

http://earth.rice.edu/mtpe/geo/geosphere/hot/volcanoes/volcanoes_b2.html

Note the East Africa Rift Zone is the heavy red around Ethiopia. It extends up to the Dead Sea and down to South Africa. It forms the Red Sea.

Because of the Rift, a good part of Ethiopia is going be become a sea also. Much like the area of Sodom and Gmorrah.

The rift zone is so polluted because of this activity that foods from these areas are banned to import to the EU.

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 11:14 AM

Then you are not following the direct orders that Jesus gave you.

163:2.4 Then Andrew brought to Jesus a certain rich young man who was a devout believer, and who desired to receive ordination. This young man, Matadormus, was a member of the Jerusalem Sanhedrin; he had heard Jesus teach and had been subsequently instructed in the gospel of the kingdom by Peter and the other apostles. Jesus talked with Matadormus concerning the requirements of ordination and requested that he defer decision until after he had thought more fully about the matter. Early the next morning, as Jesus was going for a walk, this young man accosted him and said: "Master, I would know from you the assurances of eternal life. Seeing that I have observed all the commandments from my youth, I would like to know what more I must do to gain eternal life?" In answer to this question Jesus said: "If you keep all the commandments -- do not commit adultery, do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not defraud, honor your parents -- you do well, but salvation is the reward of faith, not merely of works. Do you believe this gospel of the kingdom?" And Matadormus answered: "Yes, Master, I do believe everything you and your apostles have taught me." And Jesus said, "Then are you indeed my disciple and a child of the kingdom."

P1802:1, 163:2.5 Then said the young man: "But, Master, I am not content to be your disciple; I would be one of your new messengers." When Jesus heard this, he looked down upon him with a great love and said: "I will have you to be one of my messengers if you are willing to pay the price, if you will supply the one thing which you lack." Matadormus replied: "Master, I will do anything if I may be allowed to follow you." Jesus, kissing the kneeling young man on the forehead, said: "If you would be my messenger, go and sell all that you have and, when you have bestowed the proceeds upon the poor or upon your brethren, come and follow me, and you shall have treasure in the kingdom of heaven." (And you know what the young man decided and you know what Jesus said after that)

***

163:2.8 Thus always it was and forever will be: Men must arrive at their own decisions. There is a certain range of the freedom of choice which mortals may exercise. The forces of the spiritual world will not coerce man; they allow him to go the way of his own choosing.

***

163:2.10 Riches have nothing directly to do with entrance into the kingdom of heaven, but the love of wealth does. The spiritual loyalties of the kingdom are incompatible with servility to materialistic mammon. Man may not share his supreme loyalty to a spiritual ideal with a material devotion.

***

163:6.7 "You have entered upon this great work of teaching mortal man that he is a son of God. I have shown you the way; go forth to do your duty and be not weary in well doing. To you and to all who shall follow in your steps down through the ages, let me say: I always stand near, and my invitation-call is, and ever shall be, Come to me all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am true and loyal, and you shall find spiritual rest for your souls."

P1808:2, 163:6.8 And they found the Master's words to be true when they put his promises to the test. And since that day countless thousands also have tested and proved the surety of these same promises.

http://www.ubfellowship.org/newbook/ppr163_6.html

***

So, not all are called to spread the word. Not everyone in Jesus's day could or would serve as a messenger of the gospel, either. I am one of the multitudes, but I know he loves me, and I have a personal relationship with him. When people feel the calling to evangelize, they are certainly aided by the spiritual world. But not all are called or choose to serve, even today, in this capacity, and it does not mean he loves me or anyone who declined the role..... less.

I've done my own share of sharing His light and offering others compassion along the way.

Watch your own propensity to pluck the log out of others' eyes!

BC :D

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 11:18 AM

stuart_allsop

03-04-2005, 11:28 AM

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 11:29 AM

Mt. Ararat

Stupidity has a totally different meaning than "ignorance." You can call me ignorant on this one!

Did you connect Mt. Ararat with Moses or just volcanic eruption for the whole region? I cannot see how Moses could have trekked all the way from Egyt to Turkey with his entourage, frankly. Now I can't remember what the heck you were getting at. This is the mountain where Noah's Ark supposedly resides, right?

Please focus on exactly what you were saying about Mt. Ararat's eruption in those days, please.

BC

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 11:36 AM

I just accept what Jesus said regarding our ability to someday do what he can do. This tells me that eventually we will be able to perform many of the miracles he performed. That's all.
Excellent! Then you'll have no trouble believing that the early chruch fathers consistantly reported that many people were going around doing just exactly the kinds of miracles Jesus had been doing, including healing the sick and raising the dead. And that these very same miracles have been occuring ever since, right up until today.

This is actaully quite fascinating, and I once did a couple of sermons on the subject of prayer and faith. When you get into detailed Bible study of how prayer and faith go together, and how answers to prayer come about, it really kind of blows you away that God would trust us with that kind of power. Did you know that God ALWAYS answers prayer, without fail?[/QUOTE]

Of course! And that's conditional upon God's will, as well. Not all prayers for healing are answered with the healing.... it all depends on His will. And of course, I know the connection of prayers and healing, personally, as well as the readings I've done regarding such. Some who receive healing aren't even aware of others who pray for them and they're healed anyway! It's an amazing thing! Yes, and I'm aquainted with the Biblical and U Book references to his messengers who healed and cast out demons as well! Oh yeah, and exorcisms exist today as well! Amazing stuff! The power of God in spiritual conjunction with our prayers is a mighty healing force indeed! AMEN! Raising of the dead is one that I'd like to know more about. I only know of Jesus's abilities regarding this.

BC :D

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 12:09 PM

And from this effect, in say, downwind of Mt. Ararat or downwind of Mt. Sinai near Midian in Saudi Arabia, there would have been a marked environmental difference in the area due to those effects.

For instance, St. Sinai could well have caused much rain that fell into the Sinai Penensula to make for that wash out area at the middle of the Gulf of Aquba that supplied the material for the land bridge. The active volcanic activity would also have supported some swelling of the crust in this area to make the land bridge periodically rise and fall. The tides in that area are some of the highest on the planet due to the long tuning fork effect of this Gulf. Perhaps a 40 ft rise and fall might be the real case for the Exodus period, 25 ft from the normal tides, and 15 ft from the volcanic swelling during sustained eruptions.

Next to the Sun being the most significant thing that made for life on planet earth, the volcanic effects come in second. They set up the conditions that appear to have formed the Garden of Eden from the times of Mt. Ararat's emissions. They set up a much different climate for the zone around Midian in Saudi Arabia and the set up the metal sulfite emissions that Moses termed Manna.

Interesting and I do think it's a plausible theory.

What about this one? ....violent eruption on the island of Thera in the Aegean, around 1400 B.C. -- Phillips

P1057:1, 96:4.5 It does not appear that Moses would ever have succeeded in the establishment of his somewhat advanced ceremonial worship and in keeping his followers intact for a quarter of a century had it not been for the violent eruption of Horeb during the third week of their worshipful sojourn at its base. "The mountain of Yahweh was consumed in fire, and the smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly." In view of this cataclysm it is not surprising that Moses could impress upon his brethren the teaching that their God was "mighty, terrible, a devouring fire, fearful, and all-powerful."

http://www.ldolphin.org/franz-sinai.html

Mount Sinai was the destination of Moses and the Children of Israel after the Lord miraculously delivered them from the bondage of Egypt (Ex. 18:5). It was from this mountain that the Lord also gave the Ten Commandments to Moses and the people of Israel (Ex. 19:1-3, 11,18; 20:1-17). Here, too, the prophet Elijah found himself after his escape from wicked Queen Jezebel (I Kings 19).

Pilgrims, scholars and tourists have visited the traditional site, Jebel Musa (Arabic for the Mountain of Moses) for more than 1,600 years. In the early 4th century AD Eusebius of Caesarea placed Mt. Sinai in the southern Sinai Peninsula. When Egeria made a pilgrimage to the East between AD 381 and 384, she visited Jebel Musa as Mt. Sinai (Wilkinson 1981: 1, 18, 91-100). This impressive mountain located in the southern Sinai Peninsula is situated behind the Byzantine monastery of St. Catherine's built by Emperor Justinian in the middle of the sixth century AD (Tsafrir 1978:219).

It may come as a surprise to most people, but scholars have identified 13 different sites as the "real" Mount Sinai (Har-el 1983:2). I would agree with the proponents of the Jebel al-Lawz hypothesis that Jebel Musa, the traditional Mt. Sinai, or any other site in the southern Sinai Peninsula, could not be the real Mt. Sinai. Professor Har-el in his book, The Sinai Journeys, has argued very convincingly, against the southern Sinai theory (1983: 175-233).

Recently, six American treasure hunters have added a 14th mountain to the already long list of candidates for the real Mt. Sinai: Jebel al-Lawz.

At any rate, volcanoes in the vicinity affected the weather. Of course. So? Ancient peoples gave all natural occurances to God as the punisher/rewarder. And the volcanoes can explain many of the land bridges, upcrusting, clouds that overcame cities, even the ancient Passover experience and became a source of fear of God as well. Yeah, but your chemical/metals connection still needs to be answered regarding the Jews and their "specialness." I don't buy it. You have avoided that one altogether, IS. Instead you point to my ignorance on volcanoes in general. How come? What about the metals? Manna?

BC

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 12:31 PM

PS, Stuart. Let me know when you meet someone who can walk on water, OK?

halva

03-04-2005, 01:23 PM

Persons like BC are literally too dumb to look up the definition of Ararat in the dictionary. School kids I know, who know the bible tale of Noah, know Ararat is a volcano.

Jim Phelps, although BC is terribly dumb and I am even dumber, both of us know the difference between a Marxist-Leninist and a Marxist-Lennonist..

Of course it is only your continual and anti-educational insulting of your students that is impelling us (or at least me) to remind you of some of the things about you we have laughed up our sleeves about in the past without being so rude as to bring them to your attention.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 02:05 PM

BC writes:

Did you connect Mt. Ararat with Moses or just volcanic eruption for the whole region? I cannot see how Moses could have trekked all the way from Egyt to Turkey with his entourage, frankly. Now I can't remember what the heck you were getting at. This is the mountain where Noah's Ark supposedly resides, right?

Please focus on exactly what you were saying about Mt. Ararat's eruption in those days, please.

=============

I do believe the focus problem is entirely yours. It has been clearly stated that two different volcanoes were active in two different time periods. Moses spoke to one via the story of Noah and to the other via direct experience. There are some similarities between these two different volcanoes effects [perhaps 3--but the other is not mentioned by name in the bible texts]. Garden of Eden and the balance of nature was good health and longevity--1000 years of lifetimes. Moses volcano was how to survive in the toxic presense of a nearby volcano.

The Ararat volcano affected the Euphrates Valley and the addition of the trace metals and rainfall there that influenced the Garden of Eden. This all happened long before Moses was alive. Ararat was the Noah story and likely the orgin of the story was somewhere from around the Baghdad area, which Moses later captured for Genesis and the Noah story. Ararat was the location of the Ark, and the volcano that was causing the 40 day/nite problems was some volcanic detonation in the Mediterranean. It was like the Krakatoa effect, and over a wide area.

The Sinai volcano story is the one that applies to Moses and his games with mother nature. Moses lived near Midian, which is the location of Mt. Sinai. This volcano was active in Moses time and was the column of fire the Israelites followed by nite. Its emissions affected the weather in this region, setting up the rains that washed the Sinai peninsula area to make the land bridge across the Gulf of Aquba. The Israelites walked down this washes pathway to throw off the Pharoes from catching them. It was this effect and the fact that the tectonic plate's fault runs right under the same area and this was affected by pressures seen in active volcanoes. Gulf of Aqaba tides are like 25 ft naturally, then add on the tectonic plate's fault being raised by the volcano type pressures and one gets a land bridge that is depended upon the tides and the eruption of a volcano. Moses took the wash pathway because he saw the volcano was erupting and knew the land bridge would be accessible, and what is more only accessible for a window of time. This he used to drown the Pharo's army.

From the Mt. Sinai volcano One also gets an area around Mt. Sinai that was not a desert in those times, and which could sustain a large propulation of people. Volcano emissions alter rainfall, they also alter the nutrients in the soils, via the beneficial trace metals effects. This similar to the pattern seen for the Garden of Eden and its enhanced rainfall and nutrients for growing things.

Look up the uses of volcanic materials for fertilizers and one will find a small part of that nutrient effect.

Moses' Manna is deposited distantly from a volcano as a precipitate, which the Israelites gathered. Manna is not volcanic ash, though it can obscure it.

Manna is the insoluble trace metals that the sulfur or H2S reactions precipitate as sulfites well downwind in the volcanic plume. It was a fine dust that collected, usually in the cool of the nite, on the leaves of growing things, and this they gathered. It was a sort of medicine from their god that helped them survive the presence of the volcano.

Manna like metals today are the colloidal silver and gold and others, which would via entrance into the body via its high membrane mobility. In high concentrations in the body, these metals compete for the fluoride combination and shut down the formation of the dangerous fluoride metal complexes that screw up human health.

Now, if you have the need to assume Mt. Sinai was not a volcano---that is for you. But it also terminates the discussion.

The other interesting thing is that from this learning about volcanos, the Israelites came to know that gold and other metals were in high proportions in volcanic zones. So, the Jews learned to mine metals in volcanic zones, particularly gold.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 02:18 PM

jayreynolds

03-04-2005, 02:44 PM

The rift zone is so polluted because of this activity that foods from these areas are banned to import to the EU.
I dispute this claim. What countries, what foods, etc. Put 'em up, Jimbo.

jayreynolds

03-04-2005, 03:05 PM

Now, if you have the need to assume Mt. Sinai was not a volcano---that is for you. But it also terminates the discussion..
Pretty funny, Jimbo. Didn't the link you posted earlier say Mt. Sinai wasn't a volcano????
he-he-he

jayreynolds

03-04-2005, 03:07 PM

[QUOTE=Insurrectionchemistry]Wayne Hall,

Stupidity is telling someone they are being antisemetic, when they are actually talking about the realistic stories of the bible's narrative that support much of the story of Moses and what made him one of the profits.QUOTE]
Moses was a profit?

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 03:23 PM

Now the interesting thing for Wayne Hall is going to be the fact that he has been filtering out all the bible account stuff that I write as anti-semitic and all his so called politically correct persons on Ami Yahoo are going to be the dead last at learning the bigger issues.

And it is going to be Wayne Hall that put them dead last stupid. Make sure you tell them all to thank Wayne Hall for excluding data and pertinent factors of the explanation.

So, that little stupid thing is going to shoot yourself in the foot once again. How many times now?

I have always planned to use the volcanic system data to discuss the sulfur emissions and things that set the baseline for the planet's soils and skies. How volcanoes changed climates and seeded clouds and rainfall.

Then relate that to the story of Noah, the story of Moses, and how Jesus figured it out later too.

Which means Wayne Hall is the main hold up for the truth coming out on the sense and sensabilties for how the chemtrails inventions were just simple understanding and extensions of the history exposed in the bible narratives.

And now due to Wayne Halls filtering, all of the Wayne Hall elite Ami Yahoo types are now going to be dead last in understanding rather simple concepts and associations from the Jewish bible narratives.

That shall most likely embarrass him forever to have not made such simple and meaningful connections and to have been inclusive of such data rather than exculsive.

It was his choice and his stupidity of the overall equations that strike once again. There is a lot about nature and science in the bible history, but Wayne Hall never had the insights to make the simple connections to much of it being volcanos and sulfur reactions.

Try flying over and active volcano sometime and look at the way downwind weather systems they make.

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 03:33 PM

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 03:52 PM

So, lets get into more of BC's learning disabilities.

For some reason BC can't seem to connect that fluoride levels directly connect to the mind's power of thought and cognitive reasoning powers.

BC, though she can load down the list with BS copy and pastes, can't seem to look up that fluorides levels directly associate with IQ, and it directly associates with retention of toxic metals like lead.

Now, when some one is so incredibly slow, as to not connect those dots when they have been highly exposed in the anti-fluoride campaigns, the use of fluoride in prisoners to dumb them down, and the serious mental deficites of those affected by high fluorides in the environment-----then she must be on the route of stupid --- rather than ignorant. As an intelligent person runs a few web searches to see if there is a connection between fluorides and IQ. Stupid people don't-----then they shoot off their mouths to expose their stupidity.

If fact, there is an abundance of evidence that high fluorides damage IQ, and an aboundance of evidence that connects fluorides to rises in cytokines that upset the blood brain barrier system to allow in problems like the aluminum that sets up alzheimers.

It would appear this excuse of ignorance is not the case, as only stupid people don't check to associations to volcano HF releases, upsets in the metals metabolism in pesticides studies with fluorides, and the fluoride-metal complex issues that upset the immune system memory via AlFx problems.

You see, even ignorant people can type in the words "fluoride" and "IQ" into a web search engine, but stupid people can't and they run on and on and on about stupid excuses.

ie http://aolsearch.aol.com/search?query=Fluoride%20IQ

BC is going to have to know things that are common knowledge, else look like a fool. Especially when a simple internet search turns up the fact that it is common knowledge in all the published research in many different countries.

When BC can't find common knowledge things like Ararat is a volcano---it speaks to stupid idiot. And all else, per her excessive drivel or running off at the mouth syndrome, is just excuses for her being so illiterate of common knowledge.

BC is probably one of these people that swallowed their toothpaste, which is made with alumina and fluoride. It makes people real stupid in the long term.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 04:24 PM

An example of someone with higher cognitive processing skills:

http://rense.com/general63/ccur.htm

Amazing Ironies, Striking Similarities & Curious Coincidences Of Two Suspicious Events
By Douglas Herman

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 04:41 PM

For persons with the cognitive ability to include the volcano factors in the Exodus, this becomes the logistically superiour route of Exodus:

Thinking persons put into the Exodus equation that this Gulf of Aquba crossing site for the Red Sea arm is sitting over a plate fault zone that was pumped up by the volcanic activities making the volcano erupt. The long standing volcano emissions set up the long sand bar across the Red Sea due to the large wash zone coming from the Sinai peninsula. The factors of the increased pressures raised the plate and sea floor, the tides were high naturally, and the rains induced by the volcano made a land bridge with a time window for passage.

If the Egyptian army were after someone, they would take the unusual route down the wash and to this site they thought was impassable. Then when the conditions were right, the Exodus people would run across and let the Egyptians following in a timely fashion to their deaths.

It was the only tactical advantage situation for Moses to avoid this huge army and come out on top. They appeared to stay near the volcano, so the Egypians would not come there. They then wondered around there for 40 years or so.

If Moses took any other route, the Jews would still be the slaves of Egypt. It was only via this little trick of deceit and treachery that mother nature and this volcanic effects provided that allowed them to successfully escape.

The only reason this Exodus Route is not well established is that most persons leave off the volcanic factors influences in the outcomes, and the climate change issues that allowed them to live in that area and to survive.

In Oak Ridge, we included the volcano factors and the real history for the Exodus and the games with mother nature that Moses used to his advantage.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 05:21 PM

BC proposes the "Har-EL" map as the Exodus pathway and it looks like half a dozen others.

Again we see the absolute lack of cognitive reasoning from BC. The Egypian army controlled this entire region and the army could go in persuit of the Israelites anywhere they could walk. Virtually nobody could stop the Egypian army and they controlled a huge area.

So, unless something had some really big armies in those times, the Egytians ruled the day and no matter where the Israelites walked, when the Egyptians caught up with them, Moses would be dead and the slaves taken back to Egypt. Very simple military logistics.

So obviously, there must be some other factor that caused the decimation of the Egypian Army to stop them from killing Moses and taking the slaves back to work.

That factor was the use of the Red Sea crossing and the trick of mother nature connected to the volcano effects. Only that effect is what saved Moses and the Israelites from certain death.

One has to employ some rather simple logic to make these associations as to outcomes.

And it is quite clear that BC is too stupid to notice the obvious that all these other paths do nothing to stop the Egypian Army from its goal. The one exception being the Red Sea crossing pathway, which was used to kill off the Egypian army by mass drowning and end their persuits of the Exodus persons.

A decimated army goes back home in humiliation.

Rather simple, rather obvious criteria-----which obviously eludes stupid people's nonsense postulations on pathways.

Intelligent people put in the volcano effects for the Exodus's tactically superior games---stupid people don't.

stuart_allsop

03-04-2005, 05:37 PM

So, not all are called to spread the word.True, un-believers are not called to do so, but all who are born-again Christians are! It is a direct command by Jesus, the last one he gave us before ascending into heaven, and it goes like this:

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

No exceptions. It doesn't say "Everyone exccept those who don't feel like it, go and make disciples...". It's a direct command, and it's generally know as "the great commission".

Not everyone in Jesus's day could or would serve as a messenger of the gospel, either.All those who were true born-again Christians were and still are requierd to do it.

I am one of the multitudes, but I know he loves me, and I have a personal relationship with him.That's great! But it's only the start.

When people feel the calling to evangelize, they are certainly aided by the spiritual world. Yes, that's true. But we are not takling about a call to evagelize here. We are talking about a specifc command give to all believers by Jesus himself, as soon as he was given the authority to give the command.

But not all are called or choose to serve, even today, in this capacity, and it does not mean he loves me or anyone who declined the role..... less. Well, I'm sorry but I can't agree with that, because the Bible tells me something entirely different. All born-again Christians are called to spread the word, by whatever means are available to them. Paul lists a whole bunch of gifts and talents that people get, and some get lots of them, some less, but EVERYONE gets at least one, which we are REQUIRED to use to spread the word. Jesus preached MANY parables about exactly this point, and in one of them they guy who was given a talent but failed to use it, had his one and only talent taken away from him m the he was kicked out into the cold and darkness.

Jesus taought something different from what you are saying, Boomer.

I've done my own share of sharing His light and offering others compassion along the way. Good! Then you ARE following orders! So what's the problem, then? :)

Watch your own propensity to pluck the log out of others' eyes! Huh? You have the parable entirely backwards, Boomer! Anyway, the hypocrisy tag doesn't fit me at all in this case, and I think you know it: THink about that for a sec.

Besides, I'm not telling you what to do: I'm just telling you what Jesus told you to do. Not the same things at all! It is my duty as a Christian to correct un-Biblical teachings wherever I can, and that's all I'm doing here. If you want ti take it as a persoanl insult, well then I'm sorry, becuase it wasn;t intended that way. It was merely meant as a correction of what you said.

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 05:40 PM

Ron Wyatt says Jebel El Lawz was the real Mt. Sinai . He noticed the black color on the top of the mountains. He does NOT say that it was volcanic. He supports the Biblical story that God came down and burned the mountain tops.

http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/frequent_questions/grp3/question2384.html

Can you tell me if there was an active volcano in Egypt or Sinai during the period from about 4000 years ago through about two thousand years ago? Is there a known location for the biblical "Mount Horeb" (the Bible implies it is in Sinai) and if so, could it have been a volcano (during that period)? I am writing a book analyzing rhetoric about the Bible and need some real-world facts! (One author has claimed that ancient Israelites were "volcano-worshippers!) Thank you--
Susan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Susan,
The volcanoes listed below are the known eruptions in that region from 3,950 years ago to 2,000 years ago. No volcanoes in Egypt with activity younger than 10,000 years. Based on the list I do not have a good candidate for you. There is no "Horeb" in the gazetteer of Volcanoes of the World. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Nemrut Dagi (Turkey, 200 km north of the Syrian border) 1662 BC Santorini (Greece) 1650 BC Jabal Haylan (Yemen, west of Sirwan) 1200 BC Nemrut Dagi (Turkey) 531 BC Methana (Greece) 258 BC Santorini (Greece) 197 BC PS. We are compiling quotes about volcanoes. If you know any, we'd appreciate them. Source of Information: Simkin, T., and Siebert, L., 1994, Volcanoes of the World: Geoscience Press, Tucson, Arizona, 349 p. You might try to find: Guner, Y, 1984, Geology, geomorphology, and evolution of the Numrut volcano: Jeomorfoloji Dergisi, 12:2223-65 (in Turkish with English abstract).

Sincerely,
Steve Mattox

_________________________________

Hmmmm.

IS, I wasn't questioning you on Flouride now, I was questioning you on the Flouride, Flourine volcano connection with the Jews back in your volcano days, which are questionable at this point anyway. I know all about Flouride and what it does, thank you. You are one caustic weirdo. Why don't you answer my questions and notice that I gave you maps and everything? Now you accept that perhaps Mt. Sinai, whichever one it was..... was NOT volcanic? Your sweetie Ron Wyatt doesn't think it was volcanic? And notice the expert testimony above in this post? No volcanism in that Moses time period?

You can name call all you want, BTW, I'm reporting you again for your caustic posts. There's no need for that here.

Again, if you would admit to a handicap of some sort I could understand, but you won't ... will you?

BC

stuart_allsop

03-04-2005, 05:47 PM

Did you connect Mt. Ararat with Moses or just volcanic eruption for the whole region? I cannot see how Moses could have trekked all the way from Egyt to Turkey with his entourage, frankly. Now I can't remember what the heck you were getting at. This is the mountain where Noah's Ark supposedly resides, right?

Please focus on exactly what you were saying about Mt. Ararat's eruption in those days, please.

BCThat's teh problem, Boomer: Jimbo fell right into my trap, as I hoped he would. His own evidence for calling Mt. Ararat a volcano makes it very clear that Ararat has not errupted in at least the last 10,000 years. Trouble is, Noah was docking his boat on Ararat less than 6,000 years ago, and Moses didn't come on the scene for another 2,000 years or so after that! So by the time of Moses, Ararat had been dead for at least 6,000 years. ...

As usual, BC, Jimbo is trying to put together a new scam, and this one is a doozy! He's tryng to tie together pretty much every other konspiracy theory known to man, wrapping it all up in an anti-semitic package, and blaming it on the Jews!

But also as usualy, Jimbo gets all his "facts" entirely and hilariously wrong. Like volcanos still making heavy-metal chemtrails 6,000 years after it died.

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 05:55 PM

The maps and routes of the Exodus I posted were not mine, they were some other theorist's.

The map I posted was to show the various mountains of the region.

According the the U Book, the Egyptians were busy in two other war campaigns at the time and the Moses group easily overtook the few chariots that followed them.

I don't know what happened, do you?

All I presented were various theories.

I don't really care, but question remains to be answered : what was the manna and what do Flourine and Flouride have to do with the Jewish people back then and now???

Cool down, Mr. Vulcan! You're blowing your top!!!!

BC :shock:

stuart_allsop

03-04-2005, 05:56 PM

Raising of the dead is one that I'd like to know more about. I only know of Jesus's abilities regarding this.

Well, Paul and Peter did it at least once each, recorded in great detail:

Acts 20:7 "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. There were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were meeting. Seated in a window was a young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep as Paul talked on and on. When he was sound asleep, he fell to the ground from the third story and was picked up dead. Paul went down, threw himself on the young man and put his arms around him. “Don't be alarmed,” he said. “He's alive!” Then he went upstairs again and broke bread and ate. After talking until daylight, he left. The people took the young man home alive and were greatly comforted."

And

Acts 9:36 "In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which, when translated, is Dorcas), who was always doing good and helping the poor. About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room. Lydda was near Joppa; so when the disciples heard that Peter was in Lydda, they sent two men to him and urged him, “Please come at once!” Peter went with them, and when he arrived he was taken upstairs to the room. All the widows stood around him, crying and showing him the robes and other clothing that Dorcas had made while she was still with them. Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, “Tabitha, get up.” She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up. He took her by the hand and helped her to her feet. Then he called the believers and the widows and presented her to them alive."

Then Iraneus mentions that it was happening "all over" in the second century, and other Church Fathers report the same thing, too.

stuart_allsop

03-04-2005, 06:01 PM

Boomer, take a close look at that map you posted, and see where Mt. Sinai REALLY is, in relation tp where Jimbo tried to hoax you into believing that it is...

stuart_allsop

03-04-2005, 06:07 PM

...much of the story of Moses and what made him one of the profits.
Moses was a profit?
:)!

I guess since Jimbo still thinks that Moses was Jewish, he MUST have had a profit motive! :)

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 06:08 PM

That's teh problem, Boomer: Jimbo fell right into my trap, as I hoped he would. His own evidence for calling Mt. Ararat a volcano makes it very clear that Ararat has not errupted in at least the last 10,000 years. Trouble is, Noah was docking his boat on Ararat less than 6,000 years ago, and Moses didn't come on the scene for another 2,000 years or so after that! So by the time of Moses, Ararat had been dead for at least 6,000 years. ...

As usual, BC, Jimbo is trying to put together a new scam, and this one is a doozy! He's tryng to tie together pretty much every other konspiracy theory known to man, wrapping it all up in an anti-semitic package, and blaming it on the Jews!

But also as usualy, Jimbo gets all his "facts" entirely and hilariously wrong. Like volcanos still making heavy-metal chemtrails 6,000 years after it died.

THANKS, Stu!

Good work!

I did a little research and found out for myself. Besides, Ararat was way up in Turkey anyway!
Moses visited one of the other suspected mountains, probably the one on his map across the Red Sea on the Midian side.... El Lawz or something, which is the one IS chooses. Really, his whole volcanic theory has just collapsed with the geologic/volcanist's answer to the girl's question above.

It all falls flat! Now I have to reread the U Book part.

BUT, the interesting aspect of Mt. Sinai for me, is that Mt. Sinai, the one on the Arabian side, the one most now believe to be the original one due to the land formations and vallies near it, is blackened and NOT volcanic. That may indeed prove that God did come down as was told in the story. But who really knows?

WHATEVER! I'm tired of these tirades!

No questions answered and a lot of you-know-what!

Later...

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 06:13 PM

http://www.hope-of-israel.org/jebelmus.htm

Even the Arab traditions favor a volcanic origin for the mountain of Moses: "....it is said that when the Lord conversed with Moses on Sinai, THE MOUNTAIN BURST INTO SIX PIECES, three of which flew to AL-MADINAH [modern Medina], OHOD, WARKAN and RADHWAH, and three to MECCAH, HIRA (now popularly called Jabal Nur), SABIR (the old name for Jabal Muna), and SAUR." (Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to Al-Madinah and Meccah, by Captain Sir Richard F. Burton. Vol. I. Dover Publications, N.Y. 1964. Footnote p. 422).

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 06:14 PM

Boomer, take a close look at that map you posted, and see where Mt. Sinai REALLY is, in relation tp where Jimbo tried to hoax you into believing that it is...

Which one do you think it is, Stu? Could you give me the name? There are several closer which aren't located over on the Midian side.

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 06:16 PM

Well, Paul and Peter did it at least once each, recorded in great detail:

Acts 20:7 "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. There were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were meeting. Seated in a window was a young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep as Paul talked on and on. When he was sound asleep, he fell to the ground from the third story and was picked up dead. Paul went down, threw himself on the young man and put his arms around him. “Don't be alarmed,” he said. “He's alive!” Then he went upstairs again and broke bread and ate. After talking until daylight, he left. The people took the young man home alive and were greatly comforted."

And

Acts 9:36 "In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which, when translated, is Dorcas), who was always doing good and helping the poor. About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room. Lydda was near Joppa; so when the disciples heard that Peter was in Lydda, they sent two men to him and urged him, “Please come at once!” Peter went with them, and when he arrived he was taken upstairs to the room. All the widows stood around him, crying and showing him the robes and other clothing that Dorcas had made while she was still with them. Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, “Tabitha, get up.” She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up. He took her by the hand and helped her to her feet. Then he called the believers and the widows and presented her to them alive."

Then Iraneus mentions that it was happening "all over" in the second century, and other Church Fathers report the same thing, too.

Definately wondrous! THANKS!

Are there any in this day and age?

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 06:21 PM

Now the last time I looked lots of volcanoes are black on the top, and lava and lava rock are black.

For some odd reason the Moses volcano sits in the middle of a huge volcanic area that can be seen from the space shuttle:

===
http://home.att.net/~qata/explore.htm

This pumice rock was a product of a volcanic eruption in the 225 km. long volcanic mountain range named Harrat Uwaiurid and Harrat Raha. (Notes Taken During A Journey Through Part Of Northern Arabia in 1848 by Dr. George Wallin of Finland)

===

And persons like Moses father in law Jethro learned to live in this area. Which means Jethro knew how to deal with the poisons of a volcanic zone.

Mt. Sinai is a volcano sitting right in the middle of a highly volcanic range.

And it is not real hard to find the details on the internet, even see them from space. Even read it in history accounts of some visits to the region.

If one sees a mountain that is black on the top---one normally thinks there is lava somewhere.

Unless your stupid, of course.

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 06:30 PM

Look up the uses of volcanic materials for fertilizers and one will find a small part of that nutrient effect.

Moses' Manna is deposited distantly from a volcano as a precipitate, which the Israelites gathered. Manna is not volcanic ash, though it can obscure it.

Manna is the insoluble trace metals that the sulfur or H2S reactions precipitate as sulfites well downwind in the volcanic plume. It was a fine dust that collected, usually in the cool of the nite, on the leaves of growing things, and this they gathered. It was a sort of medicine from their god that helped them survive the presence of the volcano.

Manna like metals today are the colloidal silver and gold and others, which would via entrance into the body via its high membrane mobility. In high concentrations in the body, these metals compete for the fluoride combination and shut down the formation of the dangerous fluoride metal complexes that screw up human health.

Now, if you have the need to assume Mt. Sinai was not a volcano---that is for you. But it also terminates the discussion.

Yes, the discussion is terminated. Remember, the Hebrews were not the only inhabitants of that vast region, even if there were volcanic ash dumps and other precipitates, so your whole theory of them being particularly endowed with some kind of genetic difference due to metallics is ridiculous anyway. Metallics, even if ingested do not gather in the DNA and then produce offspring with metallics in their bodies. WHAT THE?

Well at least I learned something for myself today. It wasn't a total waste of time.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 06:56 PM

The Role of metals in autoimmunity----and metals get into DNA folding and retroviral immunity too. Unless you are stupid

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/August2001/RoleMetalsAutoimmunLinkNeuro.htm

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/redir?src=websearch&requestId=14564eb0369f7e04&clickedItemRank=64&userQuery=fluoride+trace+metals&clickedItemURN=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.becomehealthynow.c om%2Fhair%2Fhair_min_documentation3.shtml

http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/copzinmang.html#MANGANESE

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-04/jhmi-mbh042502.php

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 07:16 PM

It would appear that the braggard from Colorado that stated she could keep up---can't.

It is being shown that issues that take 20 plus years to learn and research can't be gained by the self aggrandized instant gratification woman of Colorado that appears to disgrace herself.

All that jazz about she can become expert in chemistry, biochemistry, immunology, physics, plasma physics, biology just wasn't true. She lied. It takes lots of time to know those disciplines and to be able to coordinate the factors between them all.

It is so bad, she did not even keep the facts straight----the pathways for causation-----nor even the simple logic of looking up Ararat in a dictionary.

Many of these things take a a good knowledge base, and this person has the poorest knowledge base I've ever seen. No experience in the sciences at all.

No capacity to keep track of complex interaction criteria.

In essense, a housewife, whose husband has to supply her money. Operation of a vacuum cleaner is the limit of the facts she can suck up at any point in time.

Yup, it is rather hard to keep making such a fool out of yourself in not even being able to do simple internet data gathering. Instead quoting religion's fairy tales.

The intellect of a child. A person that has to blame everything else because she can't keep up.

These things are all not easy and your attempts to trivialize things into I can understand it and find it on the Internet---fell well short of the efforts needed to gain the comprehinsion. But then it was obvious from the beginning that 20 years of homework can't be done by suzy housewife in a two day gambit on the Internet.

How about stopping you lies and false claims and blaming everyone but yourself, when you get cut down to reality.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 07:39 PM

Now that suzy housewife is trampled in the dust and left behind, some new tid bits. Speaking about the magnetosphere in relation to HAARP, there are some interesting spin offs.

One of the most interesting of the sciences is the study of MHD and how things like the mercury pump work and things like the ion speakers. The study of these sciences is the key to how the magnetosphere works and even the soviet subs like the one hinted about in hunt for red october.

The mercury pump uses a magnetic field and a crossing electric current, which sets up a flow in the mercury. It makes a mercury pump.

One of the most interesting experiments is that the same concept can be used to pump air, if one ionizes the air and makes it conductive. One can use Sr-90 as a beta emitter to ionize lots of air using bremstrahlung effects. It moves air with no moving mechanical parts.

The same idea can be used on sea water to make water propulsion with no propellers, even just using the normal conductivity of the sea water.

And the technique used in aircraft is even more interesting. Laminar air flows make for nearly silent propulsion and no moving parts, just the air and the electrons in the air.

All that sort of thing was learned in the late 40s, when the US had these huge supplies of Sr-90 to play with, from making nuke weapons, in making huge amounts of ionized air, but the pure beta emissions were easily shielded to project humans nearby.

It is one of those special effects that people see once in a while. And the science is rather simple and obvious, when one adds the simple methods to ionize the air.

Kinda like how the Exodus pathway makes sense when one adds the land bridge and volcanic effects.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 08:06 PM

Just look at the tops of all these mountains that were blackened just down from Mt. Sinai. Ole god must have been busier than a one legged paper hanger in a butt kicking contest out there blackin up the tops of those mountains. Which are all volcanic.

Nice little shuttle photo here is worth a million words. Plus, it makes some people look stupid.

And we're supposed to think god did the black top on Mt. Sinai, with all these volcanic mtn all over the place in that area-----with a literal geographic line pointing at Mt. Sinai.

Several hundred Mtn tops black due to volcanic effects. But somehow---god sat on this one special mountain top and turned it black and volcanoes turned the rest black. Bull Shit.

Somebody is stupid out there, buying into religious fairy tails.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 08:32 PM

http://home.att.net/~qata/index.htm

This web site is an early publication of important findings regarding old theories that the Mt. Sinai described in Exodus may have been a volcano. The evidence of recent volcanic activity in north-western Arabia will be supported by declassified CIA spy satellite photos and United States Geological Survey expedition reports.

Gullungung eruption on the island of Java,
Indonesia. Photo by Jack Lockwood (USGS)
during the 1982/83 eruptions.

BIBLE QUOTES:

In Deuteronomy 4:11 it was written: "You approached and stood at the bottom of the mountain while the mountain was flaming up to the heavens, surrounded with dark clouds. Then the Lord spoke to you."

In Exodus 19:16 it was written: "On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud on the mountain, and a trumpet blast very loud causing the people to tremble. …Mount Sinai was wrapped in smoke, because the Lord descended on it in fire; the smoke ascended like the smoke of a kiln, while the whole mountain shook violently."

From Psalms 97:1-5: "Yahweh reigns, let the earth have joy, let the multitude of isles be glad. (2)Clouds and darkness surround him. Righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne. (3)His lightning lightened the world. The earth saw, and quaked. (4)The mountains melted like wax in the presence of Yahweh..."

From Micah 1:4: "And the mountains shall be melted under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, as waters that are poured down a steep place."

Those who witnessed volcanic eruptions had described the thunderous explosions of lava, ash, and gas rocketed into the air as gas and liquid was forced from the narrow pipe of the volcanic cone under tremendous pressure. The gas and liquid decompressed sending lava bombs whizzing through the air. Some have described the volcano as screaming or having a loud voice; perhaps loud like a trumpet. The tremendous pillars of ash rising above a volcano were seen from miles away. Often the eruption cloud blocked out the sun, moon, and stars. Thick darkness was a result of the eruptions. Fountains of lava sprayed into the air by night resembling a pillar of fire. Eruptions in the desert might be more than fifty miles away with the ash column extending thousands of feet in the air and the glow of the lava fire as a glowing light in the dark night. Earthquakes preceded and accompanied volcanic eruptions as the ground shifted under the mountain. Underground lava chambers swelled and shrank with each eruption. The air became supercharged with static electricity with the rising cloud of steam, gas, and ash. Lightning storms associated with eruptions were visible at night and photographed.

Boomer Chick

03-04-2005, 08:37 PM

Regarding IS links:

Interesting, but no mention of DNA, just cellular sensitivity to metals possibly causing various auto-immune diseases.
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/August2001/RoleMetalsAutoimmunLinkNeuro.htm

***

Good one! Great information on minerals! I take all the ones mentioned in my high quality multi-vit/mineral and extra selenium, plus a Cal Mag and extra anti-oxidants and Vit.C... counsel family as well. No mention of DNA or genetics.
http://www.becomehealthynow.com/hair/hair_min_documentation3.shtml

***
Johns Hopkins scientists have found that simply increasing manganese in cells can halt HIV's unusual ability to process its genetic information backwards, providing a new way to target the process's key driver, an enzyme called reverse transcriptase.
By measuring DNA produced by a related reverse transcriptase in yeast, the Hopkins team discovered that higher than normal levels of manganese, caused by a defective gene, dramatically lowered the enzyme's activity. The scientists then proved that HIV's reverse transcriptase responds to manganese in the same way.

Hopkins graduate student Eric Bolton determined that the defective gene is PMR1, whose protein carries both manganese and calcium out of cells. Using special yeast developed by others at Hopkins, he discovered that manganese stops reverse transcriptase, the team reports in the April 26 issue of Molecular Cell.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-04/jhmi-mbh042502.php

***

Yeah, manganese, copper, and zinc is good for you.
http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/copzinmang.html#MANGANESE

***

When we have all the trace elements and minerals, we are healthier because our cells use the materials for their optimum processes. All kinds of diseases are linked to the absence of the healthy ones, and for ones like mercury, allergic and autoimmune diseases result as their affect upon T-cells and other anti-body and immune systems. So, when a person through normal healthy eating and supplementation in our day, makes sure their mineral and vitamin content includes all the important trace minerals and vitamins in the right proportion, they have the best chance of avoiding disease, and of reaching optimum health. I'm surprised colloidal silver wasn't mentioned or gold dust as I had read in another article. The one part that was missing, regarding minerals and "metals" was the DNA factor. A healthy baby carried by a healthy mother has better chance, of course, but keeping up the intake of the baby and child through its development and beyond is essential. Nursing mothers pass a lot of anti-bodies on to the babies, but beyond that, mineral and vitamin intake through childhood and adulthood is necessary for good health and immune functioning.

In terms of the past, if a group of people moved say, from the rich lands of past volcanic dusting, to say, Palestine, where the volcanoes didn't dust, the children born in the new land would not have received the same rich sources of minerals as his/her parents when they lived in the rich lands (antibodies accepted but not sustained) The parents, as well, if having moved in their lifetime, would also not receive the same intake of minerals as before. Nomadic tribes, depending on their movements, might have had the benefit of mineral rich foods or the degradation of depleted soils and sources of minerals from their animals who grazed on grasses, or the olives and other fruits of trees. Fish would have been a good source of iodine as well, so those near lakes and seas probably were healthier in regards to iodide as well. Various waters might have also contained mineral content, and in various places, various minerals. In one's lifetime, therefore, the constant ingestion of balanced minerals and vitamins is necessary for all optimum cellular functions.

Bottom line.... healthy people have and enjoy a longer lifespan and much depends on their environment. Healthy people in those days might have felt that they were "chosen" especially if they were told that they were by a spiritual leader.... say, Moses, maybe? And beyond that, a genetic component of "specialness" is simply not logical. Diet and environment therefore played a larger role than any ancestrous heritage of healthy diet and environment. Jews today, like any people, would have to supplement like anyone else in our present food environment.
***
U Book:

Up to about 2000 B.C., Mount Sinai was intermittently active as a volcano, occasional eruptions occurring as late as the time of the sojourn of the Israelites in this region. The fire and smoke, together with the thunderous detonations associated with the eruptions of this volcanic mountain, all impressed and awed the Bedouins of the surrounding regions and caused them greatly to fear Yahweh. This spirit of Mount Horeb later became the god of the Hebrew Semites, and they eventually believed him to be supreme over all other gods.

***

That's it, I'm done and you, IS, have sunk to a new low.

BC

halva

03-04-2005, 08:52 PM

Wayne Hall,

Stupidity is telling someone they are being antisemetic, when they are actually talking about the realistic stories of the bible's narrative that support much of the story of Moses and what made him one of the profits.

Using that to label someone only goes to obscure the truth of what made Moses and Jesus to both be considered as highly enlightened prophets of those times.

You, Wayne Hall, are anti-Christ and a bigoted idiot when you do such. Clear?

Jim Phelps, if you had one tenth of the understanding of politics and human psychology that you claim to have (and possibly do have) for other subjects you would have perceived that my motivation from the outset in relationship to you has been to treat you in such a way as to deprive Jay Reynolds of the ability on one occasion to make demagogical reference to your alleged anti-semitism (which would be perceived in fact as anti-semitism by most people and undoubtedly by the professional hysterics against anti-semitism who have so much political clout in our day and age), condemning us for not dissociating ourselves from you [however we are supposed to do that at places like Arianna's] and on other occasions trying to enlist you into similar ploys directed at other individuals.

And if you look at Reynolds' current postings you will indeed perceive that he has been deprived of the ability to continue doing what he was persistently doing for hundreds of pages of this thread and other threads on this forum.

Now we are in the position where other members of this board who are more clever in interrogating you than I am can begin to "separate the wheat from the chaff" in what you have to say, i.e. separate the elements of valuable scientific knowledge from the elements of prejudice. This is something that should be done in relation to all 'anti-semites' and prejudiced people generally, but as you know only too well, 'anti-racism' and 'anti-anti-semitism' in these times has become a growth industry encouraging a proliferation of despicable demagogy.

The social forums to which I look with hope because of their absolute (and unthinking) intolerance towards sceptics of anthropogenic climate change are also very much in the grip of demagogical "anti-racism", including "anti-anti-semitism", (though the current situation with Israel and the Palestinians [the Middle East generally, and beyond] tends to shift this a little to the back-burner). I see this as one of the problems I face in my real life activity. Everyone who engages with the real world must become active in a given group of people with identifiable blind spots that will be part of the reality in which he/she is obliged to work.

You now have at least two members of this forum voluntarily assuming the role of student in relation to you. That is an honour to you, and it is something that I have persistently worked towards, in particular trying to motivate BC to get beyond what appears to be an instinctive dislike of you as strong as my dislike of Raynolds.

We have all made some progress and I think it behoves you now to cease saying things like
"You, Wayne Hall, are anti-Christ and a bigoted idiot when you (say that Jim Phelps is anti-semitic) Clear?"

For a start I have been very sparing in my charges of anti-semitism and secondly to tell me that I am anti-Christ is as ineffectual as telling Raynolds that you are going to set the FBI onto him. I was brought up in a family of Jehovah's Witnesses. I chose not to follow that religion and was never baptised. My son is an Orthodox Christian but most of my reference group are secular, including secularised Jews and Muslims as well as Christians, and including people whose 'religion' is one or other variety of Marxism. So it is silly and meaningless to tell me that I am anti-Christ. It is like telling me that I am anti-Moses or anti-Mohammed or anti-Adam-and-Eve. You do not communicate with me by saying such things, and you similarly do not achieve anything by telling me that I cannot understand or assimilate knowledge.

Your personal insulting of BC is even more damaging to your claims to respect as a scientist, because she has made a very great effort to engage with you intellectually. Far more than most people feel obliged to do in this era when the 'anti-semite' label exercises such a powerful censoring influence.

But it would still be very bad for you but not Raynolds to be kicked off this forum.

halva

03-04-2005, 09:30 PM

There will undoubtedly be crazy people at the following conference, but if there is anyone who wants to go as an ambassador for the realistic approach we advocate, they should go. I myself do not plan to.

"NEXUS CONFERENCE 2005

13th-14th-15th May 2005
Grand Krasnapolsky Hotel, Amsterdam, The Netherlands

3 Days of Cutting Edge Information on:

* The Mysterious Origins of Oil
* Secrets of Mary Magdalene’s bloodline
* The Covert Agenda to Weaponise Space
* The Electrical Nature of our Cosmos
* Earth Resonance & Mind Control
* Exopolitics and UFO Disclosure
* Billy Meier & the Henoch Prophecies
* Russian UFO uncoverups
* A planet on the other side of the Sun?
* The Out-Of-Body Experience
* Geopolitics, Oil and the future
* Earth Energy Grids
* UFO Crash Retrieval Coverups
* Hi-tech ancient civilisations
* Big Brother and the New World Order
* Alternative health suppression & Codex
* Vedic Maths & Sacred Geometry

[The 2005 NEXUS Conference is sponsored by Elanra Therapeutic Ionisers (www.negativeions.com)]

Duncan M. Roads,
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia.
Tel: 07 5442 9280;
Fax: 07 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means. On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

Insurrectionchemistry

03-04-2005, 10:54 PM

Halva writes:

But it would still be very bad for you but not Raynolds to be kicked off this forum.

============

I really doubt that little suzy homemaker who likes to pretend she is an expert in immunology, science, biology, physics, biochemistry, chemistry, and vulcanology can do very much, simply because she makes such bold claims that she can't support. She gets caught lying too much and retaliating when someone tells her that the claims she makes are stupid. She likes to fabricate big stories on her ability and then fails to measure up.

When I know issues are well vetted and true, she calls the opposite and I push the real data over her bogus BS, she has to claim something to boost her ego that was shattered in the process of being shown to be stupid.

When she gets caught making outragous comments and scattered logic replies, it only makes her look dumber.

When she takes up attempting to call persons as all manner of impaired, when they get sick and tired of hearing her bogus and outragous fantacies of being intelligent, she is well over the line of outragous tactics. Suzy homemaker likes to dush it out, but when the stuff gets tossed back onto her, she can't take the heat.

Suzy homemaker lives in a wierd little fantasy land of her own isolated mind's making.

The heat is she lied, misrepresented her talents and abilities. She is being shown right here as not being scientifically inclined or even capable of following the complex thread discussion.

As for me, I have had my claims vetted by the brighest and the best at ORNL and varied places in DC, and it all satisfied much greater minds than seen here. Which leaves little suzy homemaker looking just out of control trying to prop up her sinking boat of professed abilties.

I call it like I see it, and when suzy homemakers come up with such outlandish BS, and doesn't do her up front research and then gets not only shown but told how stupid she appears----well maybe someday she will learn not to make others the victim of her slowness to learn.

She is getting her just desert, the bitter truth.

jayreynolds

03-05-2005, 04:08 AM

I was brought up in a family of Jehovah's Witnesses. I chose not to follow that religion and was never baptised. My son is an Orthodox Christian but most of my reference group are secular, including secularised Jews and Muslims as well as Christians, and including people whose 'religion' is one or other variety of Marxism. .

Thanks for being so open, Wayne. This explains quite a lot. Again, thanks.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-05-2005, 06:24 AM

A little Review:

It was put forth that Mt. Ararat was a volcano, to which the obvious answer is: "Yes, this is correct."

What transpired was a lot of BS afflecting the Forum from someone claiming to be ignorant. This is proven to be not true, as an ignorant person can do a web search and find abundant information that Mt. Ararat is a volcano. In less than 5 minutes an ignorant person would reply that "Yes, Mt. Ararat is a volcano." So, by defintion the person attempting to parade herself as ignorant is really shown to be stupid or has a definace disorder that pushes her toward claims that Mt. Ararat is no a volcano and all sorts of crazy claims, insane claims.

It took several pages of the Arianna's forum to cut through to what should be obvious. In all my times of stating that Mt. Ararat is a volcano, I have never seen such blanant insanity returned.

Next, it was similarly put forth that Mt. Sinai is a volcano down in Saudi Arabia near the Red Sea crossing site at the Gulf of Aquba. This one is a tad more difficult, but the words in the bible narratives support the visions and sounds that come from volcanos. The geographic location of Mt. Sinai in a highly volcanic region with many black top mountains shows it to be volcanic. Even the photos of Mt. Sinai show an ash / cinder cone on top, which are black and difficult to climb.

The Mt. Sinai region is in a highly restricted area in Saudi Arabia, as it sits near the pilgramage to Mecca pathway, and the Saudis don't want a bunch of nutty Jews down there in their prime religion zone. Nor do they want a bunch of even more crazy Christian types down there digging around for artifacts. The Saudi's are even a little concerned that when everyone figures out ole Moses thought a volcano was his god, that it will impact Islam to some degree.

So, what we have seen to date, is that suzy housekeeper has even screwed up these simple factors worse than the screw up on Mt Ararat and shows a defiance toward trying to show the opposite is true as per Mt. Ararat. She is deliberately misleading.

It shows up a person who literally cannot do a web search and come up with the no nonsense information for what is going on. In place of science and truth, the list is loaded down with pure copy and paste non-sense more fitting of something from one of the three stooges comedy act. She has repeatly shown her skills to be equilavant to the "Wrong Way Corragan" approach to finding the right ways.

So, since she obviously desires to be considered of the order of the persona of a Stooge commedy act based on idiots on parade or "Wrong Way Corrigans," I must support her in her obvious desires and nature for being seen as such.

I believe it took some five pages to cut through the collective BS from BC, which means for her to cut and paste her way into the 20 plus years of multi-disciplined knowledge needed to get to the big picture, that Arianna's is going to reserve arond 1 x 10 ^ 6 pages for her mindless Wrong Way Corrigan / Stooge educational process.

There comes a time to discourage a stupid idiot, especially one this belligerant, and to dismiss that sort of nonsense in the same fasion as corrupt debunkers.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-05-2005, 07:03 AM

The really interesting scoop on Mt. Sinai, is that both the US and the Saudis know of its value.

It appears the Bush-41 helped fund a Saudi defense base near there, to fend off Israel with missles. Which means if Israel decides to go shoot at the Saudi's they can't do it without blowing up their hero Moses antiquities zone.

So, Mt. Sinai is a political and defensive barganing chip for the Saudis and the Bush Empire.

As long as Bush can make the Saudis think this is useful, the Bush double edged games with support for Israel keeps the truth that Moses version for god is a little weak from coming out.

For Israel, this silence buys them to be able to keep taking the indignous Arab lands as their own.

The interesting thing is many in the US are starting to see this happening, and are speaking out against their crimes.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-05-2005, 07:07 AM

An exampe:

Ten Letters and Answers about
WHY SOME CHRISTIANS ENABLE THE NEO-CRUSADE and Others Oppose: Part 1
By Charles Carlson

Letters from five contents and many countries tell of the interest in the phenomona of un-christian racism run wild. Many come from recovering Judaized Christians(these include your author)who are just now examining it fruits.

-R. THOMPSON WRITES FROM FRANCE:

Dear Mr. Carlson,
As a fairly elderly (73 year old) Avocat Honoraire (retired court-room lawyer) in northern France, I was interested to read your (to me) extraordinary article bearing the above title.

I have never had occasion to cross the Atlantic to visit your country, but I remain puzzled by the ability of people who implicitly reject both the Ten Commandments and the Beatitudes to claim to be Christians.

I am a committed, practising, traditional (but certainly not traditionalist) Catholic Christian living in a rural area where it is my custom to go to Mass in one of our local villages every Sunday, when I often read one of the lessons. My professional experience, which has included visits to most of the Arab states, has led me to consider the Zionists (as were the Crusaders) to be murderous, thieving and pillaging invaders who have no rights whatsoever to the Holy Land beyond those which can be claimed by all spiritual descendants of Abram (later to become Abraham), which include all genuine followers of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. It is our Holy Land for all of us, but that does not give us the right to steal the houses and lands of the indigenous population, but we are all entitled to go there as peaceful pilgrims, whether we be Jewish, Christian or Muslim. I do not accept that the bodies in the USA which you categorise as "Judaized-Christian churches" have any genuine connection with Christianit
y, since they do not give the essential importance to the Beatitudes which bind all Christians, or even to the Ten Commandments.

I look forward to reading Part 2 of your comments.
Yours sincerely, Robert. Thompson

-B. STUEMKY WRITES:

A good article---Thank You! Here are several links re Eastern Orthodox teaching on the so-called
"Rapture".
http://www.st-benedict.org/Articles/RAPTURE.htm
In Christ,
Bob Stuemky

-REPLY:
I READ your references from your Orthodox Chruch, which provide some good history. The last writer states:
"Our duty is to believe what we know to be true, not what makes us feel at ease. If we are instructed that Christians will, indeed, endure the Great Tribulation, then each of us should live his life in such a way as to enable him to be faithful to Christ in the midst of great persecution."

I am grateful for this statement of faith, and I hope the Orthodox Church will also face the Israel issue, as some mainline churches are finally doing. It must do so, we all must do so, for it is not the preoccupation with the "Rapture" that is taking innocent lives, it is the unknowing worship of Israel in place of Christ that enables annihilations. I know you understand this, so I pray you can reach many in your Orthodox church. Thanks, CEC.

-LYNN NAVARRE WRITES:
I found your article interesting but wonder why you would be amazed at the state of so-called Christian churches today. The bible clearly teaches that Christian churches would be a Apostate church (2 Thess. 2:3), that false prophets and false doctrines would be the main doctrines in these churches (Matt 24:4-26), and that religion would be one of the main components and unifiers for the coming one world order. The false doctrines in all religions that run from a seven year tribulation period, the once saved always saved, that all believers will be raptured before anything really bad happens and the various power of God movements have rendered churches either today totally asleep or made them apart of the Laodicean church ( Rev. 3:14-22). Also current president Bush is doing exactly what certain scriptures clearly said what he would do, and the events that are on the verge of fulfillment in the next year or so. If you wish to receive this material send me your mailing address and e-mail address to LJNavar52@ms
n.com and I will mail the newsletters and e-mail the up-dates to you. Lynn Navarre

-REPLY
THANK YOU for your letter and your offer to send reading material. It seems you do not believe in the rapture, but you think G. W. Bush is a product of bible prophesy, is this what you are saying? How about Israel and its gulag wall around farmers and villages, is it prophesied too? I get the impression you do not think much can be done about our problems because you think all our troubles are ordained by God. Is this what you believe? I do not. CEC

-DOKIMOS WRITES
StraitGate Ministry,
Your conclusions against the U.S. support of the state of Israel are poorly based at best. Avoiding war is not always right as it is important for there to be authorities and justice to be done. The purpose is not to wage war but to prevent it. If the U.S. does not support Israel, greater war will result.

Would it be better in your eyes for the Jews to be annihilated by their enemies? Do you think that is the will of God? Isn't it obvious that God spoke blessings to those who bless Israel?

Anti-Semitism hides in various forms. Your article, whether it was your intent or not, promotes such. Should people believe this first message of yours, and if Anti-Semitism is your intent, you could easily present your part two article even as to turn against the Jews directly. But you wouldn't need to do that because if people did believe what you said, that would be enough to get many Jews killed, wouldn't it?

You come to imply that Christians that are pro-Israel are Judaized-Christians, which is a term to apply to Pharisees and legalists. Such equation is an uncalled for deception. We at Dokimos have a saying, "Beware the watchdog" because it is the best place for the devil to hide with deceptive doctrines. Pharisees indeed need to be watched out for. If you want to go pointing fingers take heed lest several others get pointed right back at you.

Jesus is the Messiah and we are saved by grace through faith in God solely through Him. We love the Jews and the Arabs. Let us work for peace. The answer to peace is not anti-militarism as that would just open the door for hate to move freely to anarchy, murder and destruction.

Jesus Himself will come with full justice one day with a sword in His hand with all His saints and will establish the greater Israel at the battle of Armageddon.

My God grant peace to Jerusalem and peace to Israel.
Faith working by love, -Dokimos
(In a long PS that followed): PRAY TO GOD RIGHT NOW AND ASK JESUS TO BE YOUR SAVIOR!

-DEAR DOKOMOS
WHEN CHALLENGED we can count on a Judaized Christian to say two things every time. (1) they always shout "anti-semite," which you did, (2) and they always offer to pray for their critic's salvation, and for God's forgiveness, not for your own sins, but for your critic's sins. This is your gooey, Judaized way throwing a rock at me while calling it love.

The third thing we usually hear is "take me off your list." Thanks for sticking it out a little longer, Dokimos. We have hope for you as long as you read. CEC

-JACK WRITES:

Dear Chuck:
Always appreciate your various commentaries. Julie and I were
saved in April 1970, and the precious older couple who led us to the Lord gave
me a 1967 Scofield Bible, which I still use. So any comments you have on
pre-1967, or 1967, I eat up!

I am also starting to reach a point that fundamentalist churches, Bob Jones
type, spend so much time preaching the word, and emphasizing being in church,
that we become almost the present-day Pharisees. And they really aren't gung
ho for the war at all, rarely mentioned, and usually in prayer for the troops.
Almost want to avoid talking about Bush other than praying for him. It is
also from a total position of ignorance of the Bush administration, which is of
course zero excuse. Again, so concentrated on the scriptures, it is making
the BJU fundamentalist almost the contemporary Pharisee.
Best, Jack

-REPLY:
WELL SAID, my friend, most Pharisees today never see the inside of the synagogue. And as your letter also points out, many wonderful people are inside evangelical churches carrying Scofield Bibles that are filled with terrible errors. We need to reach them above all else.
CEC

con't

Insurrectionchemistry

03-05-2005, 07:08 AM

-DR. PARE (THEOLOGY) WRITES
Hi Charles,
A few questions,
1. How did you become such an authority on interpreting the Bible?
2. What is academic studies in determining the meaning of scripture?
3. Why do you attack the Jews?
4. What is the purpose of these anti Christian /Jewish notes?
Any be nice
Blessings
Dr. Pare

-ANSWER: DEAR DR PARE:
I will not answer, "why do you attack the Jews," for my story says practically nothing about "Jews." Lets talk about my authority to interpreting the Bible; no authority is required by God, and none is granted by him to seminaries that I know of.

If the Bible is indeed inspired by God, as you no doubt believe, it will be written so it can be understood without interpreters. It is Judaized Christians who make God out to be the illiterate by suggesting he (the Creator) is not capable of communicating with us (the creation), without you (the theologian) in the middle. In the absence of this attitude there would never have been a Crusade, nor a Scofield reference bible. It is no coincidence "Scofield" was sold (or probably given) to theological seminaries, a sure plan to warp and control Christianity. The 1967 edition list four seminary presidents on it Board of Editors. -CEC

-REPLY:
THANK YOU for this we are pleased our letter found its way to a lawyer in northern France, and we do not know how God arranged it, but we are grateful. CEC

-PHILIP CHETTY WRITES FROM SOUTH AFRICA:
Greetings in Jesus name, I really enjoy reading the truth
about Israel's deception. OT Testament Israel was and will
will never be again. There was so much truth I discovered
after reading the "The Final Apostasy" and 'One Nation
Under Israel". I share all info. you mail me with my Bible
study group.
God Bless
Philip Chetty

-REPLY:
DEAR PHILLIP CHETTY
It sounds like you are doing what we are commanded to do and what so few carry out; take Jesus' words serious and share what you know with your dear friends. May you continue on the narrow path toward what Jesus called the strait gate. CEC

-J. PHILLIPS WRITES
Hello,
This is a well-written article.
Re: You make this statement:

"God's alleged gift to them is Israel's sole excuse for imprisoning its neighbors."
Regarding that sentence. It is not accurate. The Zionist were not making a claim on present-day Israel based on the biblical verses you quoted. Later, ignorant Christians would allege this idea for a basis to support Israel today.

The Zionist were not religious Jews though of course they knew the Hebrew documents.
There are plenty of reasons to challenge the fundamentalists who support present-day Israel as being biblically ignorant but as far as the basis for why the land is claimed today, it is not based on these verses for most people in Israel today.
See http://biblecommentary.2itb.com/index.html

It is important to understand that many Jews mistrust those Christians who claim a bible land right.
Regards,
J. Phillips

-REPLY:
THANKS for this and for the spirit of the letter. Your correction is well taken, if I have caused anyone to think most Israelis are devout about any religion. Israel is amazingly secular, as you say, but I do take small issue with you. People there, every one I asked, did mouth words to the effect that "God gave the land to us." One who said this later admitted he did not go to synagogue nor did he even believe in God. No matter how secular an Israeli may be, most will not hesitate to name God as Israel's benefactor. Israelis seem to have been taught to say this. They are practical, and they know it works! CEC

-PASTOR MARTIN L DAWSON, WRITES:
Dear Mr. Carlson,
Please be aware (if you are not) that the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, though Evangelical,is 99% A-Millennial, and 100% anti-Dispensational. So it is possible!

On another subject, would you be willing to say what your stand on abortion is? I agree with you on many ethical issues, and would be interested to see where you stand on this one.

Rev. Martin L. Dawson, Sr.
Pastor, Stratford (NJ) Orthodox Presbyterian Church

-REPLY:
Dear Pastor Dawson:
As for your question about our stand on the lives of the unborn, we have written several in depth articles, and one study on annihilation of the unborn in secular Israel. These make our stand quite clear.

It is an Achilles heel of the Judaized Christian leaders that they can claim to be "pro-life without exception," yet favors serial wars without limit. I think God must view the killing children to be the same regardless of race of age. If we are against serial war, but excuse child killing in the u.s. and Israel we are no more consistent than the Judaized Christians who are all for wars against Islam, but oppose abortion. We confront them about this in their churches.

I am personally sympathetic with anyone who has had made a death decision for another, which include a great many churched people. I am sad for dad and empty mom, and pray they will find peace, and perhaps discover Christ through the need for forgiveness. Christ is here for sinners like all of us are.

In case you have not seen Clint Eastwood's big academy award winner, Million Dollar Baby," it is actually a story about assisted subside, in which a convincing case is contrived for it. Eastwood ignores his Priest's advice and ends a life.

About the Pro-Life movement in the USA and Israel:
http://www.http://straitgateministry.org (use search)

-AYTUG A. SENTURK WRITES:
Although I'm not a Christian I love Jesus. I don't know why you sent me this comment but it is very important especially nowadays. You should spread this mail all around the world in order for the truth be told. I don't understand what kind of weirdness is contained in this very strange Judeo-Christian approaches, it is apparent they are not working for good will nor the sake of the world. So truth should be spread about the original qualities and very vital differences between Judaism and Christianity. It would have been a quite understandable and reasonable if Christianity and Islam come in same terms. Since Islam accept Jesus as the prophet of God. So these two religions have more common words. In fact everyone should be more attentive about the more deeper transcendental unity of divine religions in an esoteric sense in a world where all the fantastic realities of new age flourish (Look for Fritjof Schuon's books for transcendental unity of religions). Let's unite in the reality of Holy Spirit against the
enemies of eternal peace.
Thanks.
Aytug A. Senturk

-ANSWER:
Thank you, Mr. Sentruk, we found that Anadolu University is in Turkey. We are trying to get our message all around the world, as you urge us to do. It reached you, so we hope you will give it to everyone who speaks English there, and maybe someone will translate it. CEC

Sorry we cannot post and answer all letters personally. Several tell us we need a "blog" where all comments could be posted, and a volunteer webmaster. Does anyone want to volunteer?
C E Carlson

BOOKS AND TAPES THAT EXPLAIN THE PROBLEM:

"ONE NATION UNDER ISRAEL"
by Andrew Hurley. This may be the first historically documented expose of the hijacking of the American Congress. It is a popular lament that, "Congress is out of control," but nothing could be further from the truth. For as Author Andrew Hurley clearly explains, Congress is not under the control of its constituents but of a foreign power, the state of Israel.
http://www.straitgateministry.org (click bookstore)

Don't miss:
-WHY SOME CHRISTIANS ENABLE THE NEO-CRUSADE AND OTHERS OPPOSE: PART II, is coming soon. If you are not a subscriber it is free, go here:
(http://www.http://straitgateministry.org)

STRAIT GATE MINISTRIES
PO Box 14491
Scottsdale AZ 85267
FAX 480 699 1902

Insurrectionchemistry

03-05-2005, 07:10 AM

More:

Why Some Christians Enable the Neo-Crusade and Others Oppose: Part 1
By Charles E. Carlson

Judaized-Christian churches focus on praising Jesus and accepting his “free” favors of eternal life, while deemphasizing the commitment to follow Christ. Mainline or traditional churches are showing a marked tendency to follow the financially successful example of evangelical competitors, while still trying to preach the difficult doctrine of following Christ toward the “strait gate.” Mainline churches are losing the battle in the marketplace, because they do not sufficiently understand why their competitors for men’s minds act as they do. If they understood the Judaized-Christian church in light of its history and teaching, they would not mirror it; they would renounce its heresy and trust in God to reward them for following Him.

Judaized-Christianity looks ever more like a political phenomenon with a religious face.* This well-defined term in preferable to the popular, idiomatic terms “Christian Right” and “Christian-Zionist,” formerly called “pre-millennialism,” “evangelical,” or “dispensationalist.” Whatever you choose to call these people ( this author is a qualified long term alumnus) they have integrated secular Zionism into their religion. Not only do they embrace it as part of their belief system, they wear it as a banner of righteousness. In the November elections, the Judaized-Christians mandated “war” in the Mideast by an overwhelming majority of about Six to four by choosing the one candidate who promised war. Neo-Crusade is a more descriptive word than “war” because each one is an annihilation of more or less helpless peoples whose leader owns or does something our leaders covet or resent.

I recently listened to a sermon in a Lutheran (ELCA) Church. The traditional message was devoutly given, with a subtle admonition that each must be a follower of Christ to remain with him. But the format of the service was modern, employing the musical informality of the Judaized Christian movement. A guitarist and several harmonizers led a chorus projected by Power Point. The service mirrored those in thousands of Judaized-Christian churches, many of which now accept the “Christian Zionist” label.

I am told by members the ELCA, not only in this church, but nationwide, has adopted, to some degree, the format of the Judaized-Christian churches in order to compete, while attempting to retain its more traditional view of scripture, at least on this issue. Many denominations are attempting to look like the Judaized Christians without actually being like them.

The question is: has all of Christendom abandoned its traditional faith in Christ to put on the trappings of Judaization? The answer is clearly no. Many traditional churches know that what they see happening in the marketplace is compromising Christianity. But they do not have the tools or the courage to compete against it, and they tend to say very little. Project Strait Gate’s effort is to provide the tools. God must provide the courage it takes to be different.

IS THE STATE OF ISRAEL THE FULFILLMENT OF BIBLICAL PROPHESY?
It can be generally stated, with a few exceptions, that mainline clergy members do not support the Judaized Christian premise that the present day State of Israel is the fulfillment of Biblical prophesy. They know it is biblical heresy to say so, and it is destructive. Jesus alone is the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophesy, and so every Christ follower should proclaim.

The Judaized-Christian notion that Israel is the fulfillment comes from accepting the World Zionist claim that “God gave us this land.” It is the issue around which all war in the Mideast pivots. Without the assumption that Israel has a God-given claim to Arab-owned lands, there would be no reason for conflict in the Mideast. Israel would have to settle with its neighbors or admit to the world that it is a pariah and renegade. God’s alleged gift to them is Israel’s sole excuse for imprisoning its neighbors. Therefore, we must continually remind ourselves and seek the truth about the source of this claim, if we are to make any sense of the Mideast. America’s churches fail to do this.

Perhaps half the leaders of America’s churches accept Israel’s self-serving claim for “scriptural” reasons. These we call the Judaized churches, and the Mormons can be included with the Southern Baptists. Others, Mainline Protestants, Orthodox and Catholic, do not accept Israel’s claim of God-given rights to Arab lands on corrupted scriptural grounds, but many members do. Most of those who oppose, unfortunately, do not make an issue of it.

NON-BIBLICAL BASIS OF ISRAEL’S CLAIM
Israel bases its claim to Arab lands on the Old Testament. No New Testament verses are mentioned, because Israel does not even acknowledge that Jesus ever existed; and if they do, they have nothing good to say about Him. The principal relevant verses are found in the first book of their Torah, Genesis, Chapter 12:1-3, where God makes a promise to a man named Abram, whose great grandson many years later is said to be called “Israel.”

“[2] And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shall be a blessing.”

“[3] And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee. And in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.” Genesis 12:3, King James Version

Virtually all Judaized Christians interpret these two verses as a promise of Land to anyone who calls themselves an Israeli. It is a sort of last will and testament for perpetual ownership of what amounts to most of the Mideast. It is no surprise that most Israeli’s agree.

Judaized Christians accept the Israel’s land rights based on interpretive footnotes found in the Scofield Reference Bible and others, including the NIV Study Bible and the John McArthur Study Bible. Hundred of commentaries and teaching tools affirm the Israeli favorable view, using a variety of mechanisms of logic.

The Scofield notes, written in 1967, declare that the above verses mean:
“(2) God made an unconditional promise of blessings through Abram's seed (a) to the nation of Israel to inherit a specific territory forever.” (Scofield Reference Bible, 1967, page 19)

The fanatically pro-Zionist Scofield book goes so far as to state that:
“all Jews are natural descendants of Abraham” (page1138, note to John 8:37)

The Lutherans would be just as logical if they claimed that they are all natural descendants of Martin Luther. These bizarre interpretations are among the reasons we believe the World Zionist Movement, and not Cyrus I. Scofield, probably edited his book.*

THE WORLD COUNCIL OF CHURCHES, in a press release carried in Haaretz, Israel, on February 23, 2005, stated “The main global body uniting non-Catholic Christians, encouraged members Tuesday to sell off investments in companies profiting from Israeli control of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.” (Most Judaized Christian churches are not member of the WCC)

Not one word can be found anywhere in the New Testament that would justify taking the life of anyone, and killing those thousands of miles away who are not a threat should be unthinkable for one who calls himself by Jesus name. Nor is there anything in Jesus’ words that would ever justify a follower of Christ to fund those who kill their neighbors and their neighbors’ children, as Israeli solders and squatters do every day.

PART II WILL DIG DEEPER into the differences among Mainline, Orthodox, Judaized Christians and Catholics on the issue of financing Israel’s occupation and abuse of its neighbors. SUBSCRIBERS WILL RECEIVE IT MONDAY

We Hold These Truths challenges all churches on the basic question of the preservation of human life. We welcome the opportunity to make presentations at churches, schools, and before the media. Project Strait Gate confronts churches over the Internet and in the street. Both are important missions where battle can be won. You can help:

*You can contribute work to our mission.
*You can forward this letter to others.
*You can buy books and tapes from We Hold These Truths.
*You can from a Project Strait Gate Vigil team in your community.
*You can contribute to Strait Gate Ministries.

Endnotes:
“Judaizer.” Webster, American Dictionary of the English Language 1828, “One who conforms to the religious doctrine and rites of the Jews.” Webster refers to the book of Galatians. Found many time in NIV Study Bible, Galatians 3, 5 and Hebrews 1.

WORLD COUNCIL OF CHURCHES CALLS FOR DIVESTMENT FROM ISRAEL http://www.straitgateministry.org/ (click Unheralded News)

ISRAEL FEARS JEWISH TERROR
http://www.straitgateministry.org

THE MIDDLE EAST CRISIS IN BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE-Carlson http://www.straitgateministry.org (click Unheralded News)

BOOKS AND TAPES THAT EXPLAIN THE PROBLEM:
http://www.straitgateministry.org (click bookstore)

FORCING GOD'S HAND-Halsell

Why do millions pray for a quick rapture and destruction of planet earth? Written by a world journalist and adventurous war correspondent, author Grace Halsell made several trips to the Holy Land, the result of which she exposes the mythology of Judeo-Christianity movement and its "fruits" from Dispensationalism. Includes "Zion's Christian Soldiers" aired by CBS' "60 Minutes" Paperback c.2002 166 pages

STRAIT GATE MINISTRY
PO Box 14491
Scottsdale AZ 85267
FAX 480 619 1902

halva

03-05-2005, 07:56 AM

Finally I think it is the person that is most highly motivated that will determine the character of this thread from this point on.

jayreynolds

03-05-2005, 10:54 AM

Next, it was similarly put forth that Mt. Sinai is a volcano down in Saudi Arabia near the Red Sea crossing site at the Gulf of Aquba. .

Sorry, Jimbo. I could never buy into Ron Wyatt's hoax about Mt. Sinai. The idea that the Israelites would for some reason "forget" where The Law of God was handed down is ludicrous. This is Mt. Sinai, it's definitely NOT a volcano.
http://www.biblicalisraeltours.com/photogallery/184.%20%20Tom%20Linda%20Mt%20Sinai.JPG

Insurrectionchemistry

03-05-2005, 11:01 AM

I propose that the highest intelligence rules the list. That is not necessarily any one person, but the supreme truths that rise above all other.

So, continuing:

It would appear that the indigenous Arab persons down around Midian know more about god than ole Boomer Chick. Boomer Chick not only missed that Mt. Sinai was a volcano, but that it is connected to a huge range of volcanoes that affected the climate there for some long times in the past.

The indigenous Arabs all know that Mt. Sinai is connected to an entire range of volcanoes with blacken tops that have blown up killing their animals and sometimes the Arabs themselves. But in all that, these uneducated indigenous persons there did not try to make a volcano into a god.

Only dumb ole Moses tried that sort of nonsense to attempt to control a bunch of dumb Jewish slaves fresh out of Egypt. Most of the Rabbis know the story of Moses, and that when the full truth comes out it is not one worthy for a god. They all know his monotheistic attempts were a grand flop. They live a fabricated lie on god, which was a fantasy created by man to manipulate men.

So these days, the Rabbis like to fool the Gentiles and tell them fantastic fairy tails about Moses and his god. Their right arm are the dumb US evangelists, who make tons of money telling fairy tails from the Jews. Their tool is the old testament itself.

And the Jewish reformer who objected to these false ideals for god, these crooked pharisees had killed. And the very same crooked set of Jewish beliefs is attempting to upset the world order from a set of falsehoods on who owns Israel, what is god, and essentially who can sell the biggest lie.

God is about the natural order of the universe, and not some truncated look at the natural effects of volcanoes and how to manipulate men.

So, not only was Moses version of god born from a volcano, but a whole range of volcanos there, which provided climate changes and a land bridge across the Red Sea for his miraculous escape from Egypt. Jetho, who lived there had centuries of experiences with many volcanos in that area. He learned how to pull some tricks with manna metals to avoid the fluorine health effects.

What is even more interesting is that Islam appears to have been born of volcanic effects also, as it followed the great detonation of the Krakatoa volcano that blotted out the Sun for weeks. Mohammad used to hold lots of his peace making meetings right near this volcanic mountain range there down from Midian. Which is why this trail there is part of the Mecca pilgramage route.

So, the fear mongering connected to these huge rumbling volcanoes are the roots of many a religious practice in that area and time period.

And the games of who can tell the biggest lie on their god and its origins are the roots of the end-times war that will spring forth from these great fairly tails.

jayreynolds

03-05-2005, 11:10 AM

More:Why Some Christians Enable the Neo-Crusade and Others Oppose: Part 1
By Charles E. Carlson

Before jumping off the cliff with Jim Phelps, check out who this Charles E. Carlson really is:
http://www.dafka.org/NewsGen.asp?S=4&PageId=947
Looks like he's trying to promote a racist here at Arianna Huffington's message board.

One simple question, Jimmy. Were you even aware of who this guy is?

Insurrectionchemistry

03-05-2005, 11:18 AM

So, now enter the recent periods:

In Europe the Jews money [The Rothschilds banking empire holdings of the Bilderburg linked fortunes] and expertise in mining started up the industrial era of Europe. Places like Belgium were the first to begin making aluminum and the first to screw up workers with high fluorine emissions.

Then the industrial metals era came to the US and steel, aluminum, and almost all the metals processed used fluorine in some fashion. The Jews that ran these processes knew there was a hugh problem showing up. Some of the companies carried Jewish surnames like Reynolds, etc. They became the titans of industry on two continents.

So, when the European Jews [the Rothschilds holdings] decided they wanted this big bomb to blow up Hitler and have a weapon as a rally point for their big banking system's stability, they knew the Manhattan Project's fluorine processes were going to be a huge issue. Lots of efforts went into concealing that.

The very first deaths and lawsuits in the Manhattan Project involved fluorine effects. The pilot plant at the Naval Shipyard for the Oak Ridge S-50 process blew up a killed some workers, and the DuPont Peach Bottom works poisoned farmers and the crops. It has only become worse since, with entire plants poisoned with low level fluorine poison releases.

The Manhattan Project was used to help hide the huge fluoride poisoning problems from the public. Meanwhile the industries that used fluorine set up a privately funded and confidential information and study center called the "Kettering Institute" to hide these health effects from the public. Kettering's influences altered reports and cut out damaging data in the few information releases they reported publically. Kettering was highly connected to GM.

As the fluoride problems were kept from the public, and as the poison was literally put in the peoples water supplies and tooth pastes, the public was dumbed down to the point of believing just about anything. The Jews games on religions hid the association of Moses' god volcano issues and the HF releases there and how they had to use the manna effects to counter the toxic effects.

It is a long long Jewish based secret on this effect connected to fluorine. Those that know about it fare better than those that don't.

The fluorine problem is one of those Moses attributed to his version of god, and as industry came along and made the problems worse, it is still a highly veiled secret of the Jew's Manhattan Project. And it is currently being used to take the power of the people away from the citizens of the US.

It is called treason, economic tyranny, and the end point is one huge war based up their New World Ownership goals.

The chemtrails projects were literally taken right from the pages of the Jewish based old testament, which speaks to the climate change issues from Moses volcanic range. Chemtrials use related techniques to set up rainfall, HF precipitation, and climate change patterns on the planet.

The guidelines for the chemtrails projects is these old testament histories themselves, and the connection to the Second Coming stems from those very associations. Chemtrails is all about hiding this long standing HF problem connected to Moses version of god and to all the health problems these Jewish metals industries have caused the planet and mankind.

These are the real secrets the Manhattan Project association with chemtrials and HAARP type projects withhold from the citizens of the US. It is about a practice of Racketeering.

Boomer Chick

03-05-2005, 12:55 PM

Before jumping off the cliff with Jim Phelps, check out who this Charles E. Carlson really is:
http://www.dafka.org/NewsGen.asp?S=4&PageId=947
Looks like he's trying to promote a racist here at Arianna Huffington's message board.

One simple question, Jimmy. Were you even aware of who this guy is?

Believe me---- no one jumps off any cliffs here with Phelps. I'm so sick of racist fear-mongering and so is Halva, that that just leaves you, Stu, Yaak and anyone who read this. When I clicked on that link, the vibes (excuse me, that's "out there" for some of you)..... the vibes accosted my senses and I couldn't even read the garbage!

Accepting that volcanoes existed back in Moses's time is a far cry from accepting anti-semitism in any form. And as WWM and I agree, there is also a definate strong line between Zionist nationalists and their counterpart Mossads and secret ops, verses the everyday Jewish person or religionist. Broadbrushstroking any group of humans is stereotyping of the worst degree and those who join together in groups (or individually) to promote their "racist" agendas, or "other-group-is-bad-due-to-genetic-or-ancestral-ties" or "the color of their skin" or "the religion they practice" have no place in my reality. I would condition this with awareness of groups who do practice violence, who do in their gathering and activities break just laws, threaten the lives of others, seek to destroy the lives of children for their own purile impulses, and like groups gathered for racist purposes as well (covert or overt). Nazi white supremist groups, child porn rings, terrorist factions of any kind, mafia groups, satanic groups..... -- these are the kind of which I speak. All such groups compose the general phylum of "hate groups." Sometimes governments can act like hate groups, sometimes governments disobey laws, torture, kill, and maim for nefarious purposes, but for this present conversation, I'll just narrow my vision into the complete recognition of and invalidity of all individuals who spread hate in any form. I don't hate them, mind you, but I disagree with them and I choose to ignore them on these kinds of boards. It's up to the moderators whether they allow such garbage posts on their boards.

All we can do as readers is be aware and educated enough ourselves to discern when BS and hate strike the net. We can ignore it, go somewhere else, or fight it. Freedom of speech.... yeah, well, you have to take the good with the bad and the ugly.

BC

Insurrectionchemistry

03-05-2005, 02:22 PM

Lets go deeper into the systems for economic conquest based upon the Egytian models and those established in Moses following suit.

In the times of Egypt, the ruler and the religions were linked and they worked together, promoting each other. In the process, the wealth and power came to both.

When Moses left Egypt, he appears to have influenced by the same criteria for making human systems work. Moses had a noble cause to free the slaves and used some very unique tricks of nature from the volcano region there at Midian and the volcano range there.

Moses came up with the concept of MonoTheism, and even in his times in Egypt he appears to have distroyed a bunch of Idols in the temples and told the ruler the bigger one distroyed the others. So, he was troubled with the concept for some time.

He pulled the huge trick on knocking off the Egyptian army and succeeding in freeing everyone for the most part. If one wants to call hiding out in this rather toxic area as being freed.

It appears Moses started a trend for monotheism with his volcanic model of god, which is a segment approach to the natural order or mother nature's power.

Moses system was conquored repeatly as they acquired wealth over the first thousand years. Their temple burned and their people enslaved again. However, in the recent time they got the idea of diversification into several regions and then coordinating their economic power.

Today, this process yields the Bilderburg money system and the Rothschilds banking power. In the UK, it is the queen, who is a direct decendent from the Throne of David and it links the Bilderburg folks with the UK Crown. The UK has the same sort of system as the Egyptians, where the ruler and the church head are the same. The monarchy system works fairly well with the queen mother approach toward looking out for the flock. But at the same time, it reinforces the big cover up on the throne of David being connected to a false concept in religion. False in That Moses version of god was about a volcanoes natural effects and using those to ones advantages. Keeping that little secret is in the best interests of the UK's crown power to rule. As the truth says, there was really no power----just an economic conquest game of long duration.

It is interesting that the UK showed some of the first problems with HF and the fluorides health effects. The UK used to do a lot of shipping and on return shipments the ships came back to London with a load of sea coal as ballast. This sea coal is very high in fluorides and when it was burning in all the cities fireplaces, it made for the imfamous "Pea Soup" dense smoke that clouded the poorer parts of London. It was here that the story of "Jack the Ripper" came into existance as he went after women selling themselfs and speading diseases. Some suggest a Mason's relationship to the Queen in investigating that and it shows up in a DVD movie called "From Hell." When one associates that fluoride damages the human immune resistance, one can begin to connect why this was such a problem in this very fluoride polluted area of London. A book called "When Smoke Runs Like Water" by Dr. Devra Davis also gets into this fluorine equation for the Pea Soup of London.

The economic conquest game developed multiple heads based on the old system of econmonic control started in Moses time and has grown into a sort of beast these days. It works like a hydra, with diversification, so it can't be taken like in the old days when the Jewish temple was taken in conquest wars. In fact, it is this association that most assign to the bible's visions of the beast. The economic beast is real and works much like the hydra monster, and the goal is economic conquest leading to world domination via the New World Order.

There are facets of the beast connected to the Manhattan Project and the need for the supreme weapon to protect the banking system. It works much like the system of power that the Knights Templar created for trading around the Mediterannean. It was eventually disassembled by the Vatican when its power was as great as the Vatican's army.

Lots of what we are seeing these days are the direct outcomes of these old bits of history. I think the most interesting parts are the factors that contributed toward the Moses and his volcanic Mt. Sinai. How seeming Islam began around the times of the volcanic event of Krakatoa. Then on up to how they kept screwing up time and again, untill they came out of the Dark Ages with the richer folks in Europe most all being related by their old bloodline.

I tend to call this system as a Jewish derived system, due to the bloodline issues. It was the system of economic conquest that declaired war on Hitler and set up the factors for WWII, using the UK and the US to get back the Bilderburg / Rothshilds moneys and properties from Hitler's attack on this economic conquest system.

In the Manhattan Project, Teller and all his Star Wars games and the creation of the Hydrogen Bomb are all related to the same efforts of economic conquest. It was this system that went after the USSR and caused its failure mainly due to economically squeezing them in the end of the Cold War.

It is now the power that controls the US, via persons like Bush, The Neo-Cons, Negroponte, Wolfowitz, Rice [Allbright clone], the Bilderburg groopie press clones, etc. The upper level of the US Govt is totally controlled by these Jewish -- economic conquest model system.

It is forcing the problems with China and Russia rearming to protect themselves from this monopolistic beast. It is a component of the End-Times, Armageddon, Revelations.

And how chemtrails interweaves all the pieces in scientific fashion is an interesting cross roads scientifically. Because chemtrails are designed to control some the end-times effects of extreme weather, dyinig oceans, rising rates of illness. All the chemtrails ideas were lifted right off the pages and associations with the Genesis chapter on volcano effects seen in the times of Moses. In a funny sort of way, we decided god gave the idea. And it floored us in thinking that too, when we first were finding the link ups on the information. It was weird, but it also worked out to be real.

Once one knows the chemtrails sciences, and Star Wars and its politics, one must literally recognize an intersection for science and religion into one reality. Which is exactly why some spend so much time attempting to cover up the existance of chemtrails. The understanding of the intricacies of chemtrails reveals much about the scams going on in Govt. and the money that drives it all. There truly is a shadow power over Govt in the US.

Chemtrails is a pure product of a system for economic conquest and it hides in the inner core the secrets of religion itself and the version of god man created. It is the subject of Michelanglo's painting of "The Creation" on the Sistine's Ceiling and his scupture of "Moses" with Horns.

In the kids movie series called "Indiana Jones," they speak of religion being 1 % poison. It is a fantasy in this old Egytian tomb conquest movie, and the really that it does happen and its best shown via the chemtrails conspiracies. The power system model of the Egypians created a monster of multiple heads, a beast, a regular economic conquest hydra that wants the world as its prize.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-05-2005, 02:27 PM

Bilderberg Groupies -
Who's Who In US Media
By Uri Dowbenko
Conspiracy Planet.com
6-6-4

Who's working for a One World Government in the United States?

The Media Blackout ensures you won't read these names in Associated Propaganda outlets (the ubiquitous AP or Associated Press, as they so coyly call themselves).

The Bilderberg Group is an invitation-only secretive Global Cabal of Illuminati Gofers, Politician-Minions and Mega-Corporate Honchos who are sworn to secrecy not to reveal the conspiracy which binds them all. Their US based Media Shills include --

* Mort Zuckerman, chairman US News and World Report
* Arthur Sulzberger, editor New York Times
* Conrad Black, chairman, The Telegraph
* Lesley Stahl, CBS 60 Minutes
* George Will, James Reston, Joseph Kraft, political columnists
* William F. Buckley, National Review (also a Skull and Bones member, as is his son novelist Christopher Buckley)
* Thomas L. Friedman, New York Times columnist
* Bill Moyers, PBS Television
* William Kristol, editor/ publisher Weekly Standard
* Peter Jennings, ABC World Tonight
* Jim Hoagland, Washington Post
* George Stephanopoulos, media pundit

When you see their names or read their publications, remember they are commmitted to your demise...

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=67&contentid=1293

Insurrectionchemistry

03-05-2005, 10:53 PM

http://spot.pcc.edu/~ksutton/GEO208/Chapter16/Chapter16notes.html

Chapter 16: Volcanoes and Climate

Benjamin Franklin (1706–90)
Laki, Iceland - 1783

Photo of main fissure at Laki by Thor Thordarson.

The Laki eruption lasted eight months during which time about 14 cubic km of basaltic lava and some tephra were erupted. Haze from the eruption was reported from Iceland to Syria. In Iceland, the haze lead to the loss of most of the island's livestock (by eating fluorine contaminated grass), crop failure (by acid rain), and the death of one-quarter of the human residents (by famine). Ben Franklin noted the atmospheric effects of the eruption (Wood, 1992).

Benjamin Franklin (1706–90) suggested that volcanoes modify climate and weather. Laki Volcano in Iceland erupted in 1783 with the largest effusion of lava in history, an enormous amount of gas was released, enveloping Iceland and much of northern Europe for months in a blue haze or "dry fog".

The gas must have contained a significant amount of fluorine because livestock grazing on contaminated grass in Iceland died of fluoridosis. 20 percent of Iceland's population died due to starvation. The winter of 1783 – 1784 was abnormally severe in Europe. Franklin suggested that the fine ash and gases from the Laki eruption may have filtered out enough of the sun's rays to cause the cold weather. (page 236, paragraph 2).

It is estimated that 80 Million tons of sulfuric acid aerosol was released by the eruption (4 times more than El Chichon and 80 times more than Mount St. Helens).

The climatic effects of the Laki eruption are impressive. In the eastern United States, the winter average temperature was 4.8 degrees C below the 225 year average. The estimate for the temperature decrease of the entire Northern Hemisphere is about 1 degree C. The top graph shows change in acidity in micro equivalents H+ per kg in the Greenland icecap. The bottom graph represents the winter temperature records in the eastern United States. From Sigurdsson (1982).

The Laki eruption illustrates that low energy, large volume, long duration basaltic eruptions can have climatic impacts greater than large volume explosive silica-rich eruptions. The sulfur contents of basaltic magmas are 10-100 times higher than silica-rich magmas (Palais and Sigurdsson, 1989).

Con't on URL

halva

03-06-2005, 12:42 AM

Believe me---- no one jumps off any cliffs here with Phelps. I'm so sick of racist fear-mongering and so is Halva

Jim Phelps brought the attack on himself by ignoring the signals from his (former) would-be friends and students that what we want from him is information we can use in public forums (where historical ruminations on the Jews are not the kind of thing that are going to get an audience).

He is not interested in educating his students in subjects that he perhaps knows about and they don't and which they want to know about.

He wants to talk about matters that interest HIM, irrespective of what his students want.

So he is a bad teacher.

And he makes himself into a sitting duck for Raynolds to launch more dreary and interminable fear-mongering.

Well, I'm not motivated to try and fight Raynolds any more for Jim Phelps' benefit.

The only positive thing about Jim Phelps now is that he seems to be ignoring Raynolds. Perhaps he has him ignore-listed.

Please let's not have any counter-attack from Jim Phelps on either BC or me because of this criticism. Let him continue posting whatever he wants to, and we will read what we want to.

jayreynolds

03-06-2005, 04:54 AM

I tend to call this system as a Jewish derived system, due to the bloodline issues. It was the system of economic conquest that declaired war on Hitler and set up the factors for WWII, using the UK and the US to get back the Bilderburg / Rothshilds moneys and properties from Hitler's attack on this economic conquest system..

Jimbo, time and time again I've seen you refer to a claim that "the Jews" were out to get Hitler, they wanted to blow up hitler, they "declared war omn Hitler. You've also quoted and stated that your own viewws on Jews coincide with the same author which led him to the "final solution".

Isn't this he sort of ideal society you would like to see?
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/imbild1.htm

Insurrectionchemistry

03-06-2005, 06:54 AM

Halva, aka Wayne Hall writes:

"He wants to talk about matters that interest HIM, irrespective of what his students want."

===========

Wayne Hall asks about the information that is about chemtrails and their inventions for climate change remediation. He is being given that information.

Unfortunately, he insists that I taint the story to suit his religion needs and what other political needs he appears to require. That is being rejected.

The invention of chemtrails was directly connected to these old testament stories on how volcanoes set up climate change patterns. Connected also with my interest in volcanoes and their study. I just happened to see this association to the story of Moses and it fit like a glove. It kicked-off all the entire chemtrails theme, as volcanoes have the mechanims that cause rain and set up climate change patterns. This was our system model, with the bible histories as part of the literal proof of climate modification. We needed these effects to offset the HF global warming factor, which everyone missed, until I found it.

I happen to like using those religion stories as prime examples, because they are stories that are so common to person's knowledge base in the US. It also tends to wake persons up as to the parts of those stories that are missing. Religions do sometimes have deceptions and parts veiled because they don't well support their aim. For ORNL, it was an epiphany.

I shall continue to be the complete teacher, and present the complete history of chemtrails, their association with religion and science, and this always will stand totally as uncorrupted by Wayne Hall's medling in the story. I really don't want to even call a controlling person like Wayne Hall a friend, so don't even consider yourself one. BC, definitely not. We'll likely find some day that her husband works as an engineer for Lockheed-Martin's ballistic missle works there in Colorado, which ran ORNL in these times of these cover ups. She has such a fondness for the fairy tail versions of the bible narratives that she contributes to the cover ups.

I tend to remain as far away from close associations with what I might term idiots as possible, so as not to be considered as one. It is an old addage and one I consider wise. I apply it here daily. There is no one here that I would be even slightly willing to term a friend.

I am completely pleased not to be in your two's close association or friendship designation. Lets not even suggest it. Let me, in fact, state--I don't want your friendship. Halva has this need for me to be his friend, and he has been repeatly told, he nor his ideas are not in my design for needs. In fact, I don't like a number of his stances, political and religious.

So, like I rejected your list and its frame of reference, so do I reject you as a friend. It won't change. Acquaintance is about all that will ever transpire.

I know that for some the idea that Mt. Sinai was an active volcano is a litte odd at first and that to associate that with the invention of chemtrails sounds like a bit of a reach. It was more than a bit odd for us at ORNL, but the pieces just kept coming together to support that was just such a case. It was shown, by all the evidence, that Moses speaking of god was about volcanic and rift plate issues in many of his stories. Something, that most of us would not make into a story about god these days. When I speak to these lesser visions of the god of Moses, the g is very intentionally left not capatalized so as to point out the fake god connotation.

Anyone can literally see on the space shuttle's photo of the Red Sea area and Saudi Arabia coastline, the rift zone that leads from the Gulf of Aqaba to the Dead Sea and the area where god is told to have sank Soddom and Gomorrah. That is a really nice photo that shows a lot of the edges of the Rift plate in that region, and one of those active areas is a rift fault is right under the crossing area. One can literally see Mt. Sinai as part of the chain of blacken top volcanic mountains and their close association to the plate rift areas.

We researched the data carefully and long, more than two decades ago, asking extensive questions and looking up lots of references. And from that process, the smartest minds of a national labs national security system all agreed this was the case. Even to the point that volcanoes did influence the rainfalls in this area that contributed to the sandy landbridge that Moses used to escape certain death. Even to the point that the better climate rains in those times contributed toward the growing of foods to feed a large number of people hiding in this area to avoid Pharo.

So, to deal with these very malicious attempts at pushing false claims of anti-semitism / racism onto persons for discussing the real Jewish history and what really motivated these early issues of monotheism and god: It isn't called anti-semitism nor racism. It is called history and the science of volcanoes being considered fully and openly, and not much else. It treats the bible narrative as a part of those histories, but disputes the term god. It supports the theme that the Pharisee distored concepts for god. None of which goes against the truth.

Only the scammers that like to hide issues like to play games with the anti-semetic words of dismissal. For each of you, the label of Christ Hater should better apply. Because it was these issues that Christ appears to have taken note of in his travels and learning about these problems from the Torah's history that are so very obvious to that area. It is even the images of Christ's return that are mixed with big White Clouds over a global calamity, that are the very visions of volcanic induced clouds or those chemtrails produce. People had common sense on things about nature in those times of Jesus and his disciples and these predictions and associations were quite easy to make. Exceeding true today, and these were used as our warnings of the big problems to come from global warming and the ozone hole.

Today, as science meets religon head on due to my old research of two decades ago becoming more public, there will be an awakening to the associations by some and rejections by others. But the truth always rises to the top, and I have always presented the entire story for chemtrails inventions. I tend to really like these concepts of how science can be used to literally prove these old stories from the bible's narratives, though they don't support a valid concept for god.

So, Wayne Hall, is highly encouraged not to ever read these chemtrail histories connected to religion and Revelation and to totally omit them from his discussions forever henceforth. History will be the judge of Wayne Hall. I would bet that his ideas come to be shunned.

Some can't handle truth, some can. The ones that can, will certainly enjoy intelligent conversation from my end. The ones that can't---won't.

The rules for classrooms has always been very simple, the teacher leads and the class follows. Nothing else works for progressive directed learning, unless one wants to follow the digressive model that puts the inmates in charge of the asylum.

Your concepts, their logic, are rejected in total. And any close associations with you. The teaching concept is not predicated upon a popularity contest with the students, else all learning breaks down.

Wayne Hall is not interested in learning, hence he is expelled from the learning experience.

Go away and stop upsetting the class with your futile attempts at propaganda.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-06-2005, 11:37 AM

Lets deal with another issue. Just like BC was told not to use my name on this list, it also applies to Hava and everyone else. Halva, nor anyone here, has permissions to use the real name.

The only acceptable names are IS, is, or insurrectionchemistry. That should make it much more clear, there is no friend level of association here toward anyone.

Those using my real name appear to use intimidation to prevent persons from voicing their views and the truth.

Here, I follow only the truth direction, and it won't be subverted by Halva's primitive doctrines or anyone elses.

Halva and some others have this primitive need of a herding instinct, which seems to suggest that they have to have numbers to be correct on an issue. Truth begins with one and can lead to larger numbers, but numbers are not a requirement to speak it. The primitive instinct is very obvious in this Forum's discussions, as there is no leadership by the thread's originator, only a herd mentality of running from one area to the next when some new bugger shows up on the plain.

Primitive herding works by safety in numbers, and is a predator sort of system. And there are indeed predators here that provide the stimulus for the herd. It depends upon dumb animal instincts to modify outcomes and behaviours.

I work on a totally different system than primitive instincts. In my system the truth is the objective and that if one follows that where ever it goes that will lead to enlightenment. I follow truth as a sort of God of enlightenment, the ultimate knowledge of nature, and what sets people free. It is the sign of an intelligent level, not one that follows a primitive response system which Halva appears to want to work here.

The predators here seek a certain outcome, via a predatory level of manipulation. The political predator system here is the same as those taught by the US College of the America's in seeking to control political systems. The truth seekers seek only the truth via the facts and there are no taboo stones to be left untouched be they Jewish linked issues, Catholic, Methodist, or the corrupt anti-Christ Bush dynasty.

Halva's primitive approach toward climate change, chemtrails, global warming has been a long running disaster. Halva continually shows up as pretty much an ineffectual person toward those issues, and it appears that both the "truth seeking intelligent faction" and "predatory political outcome driven faction" here consider him pretty much as just a primitive.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-06-2005, 02:45 PM

It would appear persons here abuse the race term and the anti-semitic term. The term appears to have originated in part from the ADL, which was funded by Mafia kingpin Meyer Lansky. On this Forum, the term is used as a false sort of label, an abuse term falsely applied toward persons that speak their mind and follow the trail of truth whereever it leads.

====

'Anti-Semitic' Is A Bogus Term As Used
From Ellen
3-6-5

Jews are not now nor have they ever been a 'race.'

Semitic peoples are those peoples of the Middle East who have always lived in
the areas of Lebanon, Palestine, etc. There are Christian, Jewish and Muslim
semites.

The term 'anti-semitic' actually and therefore refers to ALL semitic peoples
and has been grotesquely misused (cleverly) by zionists for many years.

The great majority of Jews today are originally Khazars from southern
Russia...a fierce group who adopted Judaeism in the 9th Century.

In fact, there was a quickly-suppressed story in the UK press about two years
ago which described the work DNA and genetic scientists did on Semites - both
Israeli and Palestinian, etc. The scientists discovered and published hard
data that showed there was virtually ZERO genetic difference between them.
Israeli and Palestinian semites were found to be genetically, virtually identical.
It was no surprise that this story vanished almost overnight.

Judaism is a RELIGION and Zionism is a geopolitical philosophy.

It's time to retire the misused term 'anti-semite' and 'anti-semitic'...they
inaccurate and incorrecct terms.

Ellen

Jews And Arabs Are 'Genetic Brothers'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/742430.stm

Jews And Arabs United By Genes
http://www.dangoor.com/73page25.html

Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians,
Syrians, And Lebanese - But Not To Non-Jewish Europeans
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/history-of-love/Jews-Arabs-genetic-brothers.htm

=====

The term Jew or Judaism is not a race, it is only a religious faction. I'd say a highly misguided religious faction.

Zionism made Israel a nationality, and one armed with nuclear weapons, and controlled principally by misguided Jews that kill their brothers over the false claims made by their religion.

The root of the problem is not zionism itself, but the very false claims of the Jewish religion itself.

In dealing with the problems of Israel, I prefer to deal with the whole truth, not the partial truth that Zionism is the only problem. The root of the problems begin with Moses, who carried an Egytian royal name.

The problem with Judaism is that it is a political outcome directed religion, and not one based on a solid foundation for truth. Just like I found some interesting problems connected literally to the Genesis story, whjere seeking the truth there that lead to a literal Manhattan Project level effort for avoiding the severity of climate change, so I seek another outcome than killing 3/4 of the planet from some huge war predicated on the same untruthful polical religion factors.

The root of the differences here are always what some propose as untruthful political solutions that hide truths, vs seeking the truth and ending the wars being created by the untruthful political games of religions.

I like the direct route of investigating the problems and laying them out on the table, not playing political outcome games that attempt to hide the problems. In the US, these political outcome games of avoiding the truths stem from the GOP politicians.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-06-2005, 05:20 PM

So, now that things are much quieter and the political attempts at masking the truth have been exposed, back to the important factors. Foundation development for futher discussion begin.

The US is a fairly new system in the scheme of human Governments. It is one of a long chain of attempts in the human history of Goverments. The US system sprang from the roots of a British Empire system that revolted. Part of the problems were taxes and a Govt. based on the Church of England. So, the little war over some tea in Boston ended the British control of the US.

The new Govt. designed a Constitution, set up a senate, and built a republic system of Govt., which was patterned after the Roman's before Caesar. Most of the US Constition's designers were very well educated in the problems of Govt's failing. Many of them were Masons, and as they put together Washington DC, all kinds of Old Egytian Symbols and Old Roman symbolisms were included in the design and layout of the US Capital's District.

Even the money these days has the age old Mason symbol of the Pyramid with the "All seeing Eye" on the top. Masons like to study Egypt and how it worked, and lots of Masons are Jews. The big pyramid on the back of the dollar bill is interestingly shaped like a volcano in form, and shows up some know an inner secret of religion and the Masons. The Eyptians liked multiple gods and liked the rulers and religon to be intimately linked.

Then Moses came along and invented his one god system and lots of things patterned after the Egytians and his freeing of the slaves.

It was truly an incredible story for those times, that Moses pulled off the tactically superior trick with the Red Sea to kill off the Pharos army. It was a tactical masterpiece of all time. So, he and that got some high acclaim, obviously. In the games of military war games that is the classic of call time for using the weather and nature to ones advantages.

However, Egytian named Moses went a bit too far with making up visions for his political system intertwined with god. There is some overstepping the bounds of truth that start here, political contrivances in place of truth. These have become entrenched in the religion these days and these political / nationalistic contrivances cause a lot of problems.

In the old days of the US, the churches domination was so strong that everyone was required to go to church on Sunday and put money in the pot. You did not get a voice of reason, only the command to follow. Even in Germany in this day and age, everyone is required to pay money to the church. The church was always a sort of dictatorship to rule the masses and some of this continues into this day.

The US in 1900's finially seemed to have passed the times that everyone had to go to church or get tossed in jail almost. Today, in the US one does not have to go to church or pay money to the church directly. Although via Bush, who is buying the churches in true Egyptian Empire style, is giving lots of your tax money to the church. This is setting up Empire games in the US, and problems as in the times of Egypt or Caesar in Rome. The US Senate has become the lap dog of the anti-Christ Emperor's [Bush-43] big money games.

So, the US these days is following the pathways toward the failures of the Egyptians and Romans. The US is reverting to a Emperor system, where the Senate is nullified. The US is pushing political contrivances in place of truth centered decision making. It is highly helping Israel and its politically contrived religion factors to sustain the false foundations. The US is overextended in its war making and beginning to founder economically. The US is caught telling too many lies in place of truth.

It is this same system that hides the problems of the End-Times and the methods to mediate these weather and health problems, which are directly connected features of the Revelations predictions. It is a system of politicals, rather than truth, that is cooperating to hide the faked up issues of religion and the huge problems those that used that system of religion to gain wealth and influence [Bilderburgs / Rothschilds / Rockefellers].

Many people fail to estimate the severity of what is associated with the need for chemtrails, as it is a full scale national emergeny issue, a problem of literal Bibilcal proportions. There are lots of factors directly intertwined with it that tie into having to literally know the foundations of how Govts. are designed and fail. The politics of money and religion are right in the middle of this mess of trying to avoid the truth.

We can see the lies in many forms, from the panderings of corrupt politicians like Newt Gingrich in claiming there are no conspiracies, to the games of Bush-43 trying to keep his daddy out of jail for assisting in the lies to cover the truth on JFK. It gets into the lies of Bush-43 to set up a politcal fantasy that the Iraqis and all these middle east countries are some axis of evil. There were no weapons of mass destruction, there was the want to Israel, Bush, and big oil to grab Iraq.

One of the serious problems with this forum's development of the chemtrails issues, is that most all those present know the factors of Govt and Religion at the IQ level of children's nursery stories. Such an omipresent low level of comprehension of the factors linked to chemtrails, religion, money, and NWO is just about useless toward intelligent and informed discussions. Which is why there has been so little serious discussion to date on this forum, which has been dominated by a primitive level of consciousness.

So, the intelligence bar is being raised in the discussion to one that is representative of truth and not political and religion fastasy stories.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-06-2005, 08:43 PM

Space, the final frontier. Going where no man has gone before in telling the real story on Earth.

Wonderful photo

stuart_allsop

03-06-2005, 09:06 PM

Definately wondrous! THANKS!

Are there any in this day and age?None with conclusive proof that I'm aware of. However, there are many, many stories, anecdotes, and heresay reports of miracles such as these occuring all around the world. I can give you a thrid-hand account of a testimony given by a lady in the church that I attend, just a few weeks back. She reported that a neighbor's child had been found floating lifeless in a swimming pool. The amulance arrived about 10 minutes later, and after working on the child for many more minutes, they managed to get his heart going and get him breathing on a portable respirator. They rushed him off to hospital, hooked up to the respirator, but he was pronounced brain-dead on arrival. I believe she said that CAT scans had shown substantial brain damage, but I may be wrong on that point. In any event, the family asked everyone they knew to pray for the child, and within a couple of hours there were several prayer chains running, all across Santiago. A short while later the kid woke up and demanded a bowl of his favorite ice cream, and would they please take him home again, as he didn't like being in the hospital, and didn't even know why he was there...

Last report, he was back at school, still getting good grades, and doing just fine, like nothing had ever happened...

Miracle? Natural recovery? Made-up story? Who can say. Can I prove this actually happened? Nope. All I can tell you is that I personally know the lady who gave the testimony, and I have no reason to doubt that she spoke the truth, but beyond that I can't prove it.

So you be the judge. :)

Want another, rather less spectacular but first-hand account?

A couple of years back I was going through some tough, stressfull times at work. For some reason, I started waking up 4:30 AM every single morning, for no apparent reason at all. Exact same time every single day, no matter what, and I couldn't get back to sleep for ages. On a business trip to Peru I was having real tough problems getting a system to work for a rather important client, and I desperatley needed the sleep to be able to concentrate properly, but as always I kept waking up at 4:30 on the dot. One evening I was totally demoralized, wiped out, and ready to just throw in the towel, but I decided to pray about it one more time, pleading with God to give me a break. Nexy day I slept fine, no 4:30 wake up, I got the custoerm's system fixed, and went home. I didn't think much of it until a couple of days later, when the wife of a missionary to the Ukraine that our church supports, and who was visitng Chile for a few days, gave me a call to find out what was up. SHE had suddenly woken up at 4:30 a few days before, and felt a desperate need to pray for me, so she did, not having a clue why or even what she was praying for. We compared dates, and figured out the she had taken over my 4:30 spot the morning that I slept great! After that I had no more problems, and things started turning around.

Tell me how that works... I call it a miracle, but I have no idea what was going on at all! I hadn't spoken to this lady in weeks, she attends a different church on the other side of town, nobody except my wife knew about my stress and sleep troubles anyway, and suddenly out of the blue this lady gets my 4:30 wake-up call instead of me.

I still feel kind of guilty that my troubles woke her up, miles away, and got her all worried about me, but who knows what was going on in the spiritual realm?

Coincidence? Miracle? You be the judge... I know what I think it is! :)

stuart_allsop

03-06-2005, 09:16 PM

And persons like Moses father in law Jethro learned to live in this area.Huh? What happened? I thought you told us that Jethro was actually Moses' BROTHER! So how did he suddenly turn into Moses' father-in-law?

You really need to try a bit harder when it comes to keeping your hoaxes straight, Jimbo. It's those glaring little errors that expose you for the fraud that you are...

(Sheesh! Next thing you now, Jimbo will be telling us that Moses was actually a Jew and wa a high priest!)

stuart_allsop

03-06-2005, 09:25 PM

Just look at the tops of all these mountains that were blackened just down from Mt. Sinai. ...

Several hundred Mtn tops black due to volcanic effects.

I'm wondering something here, Jimbo: The resolution of that satellite photo looks to be about 20km. In other words, your average mountain top at the 1km cross section is about 400 times smaller than a single pixel, and the tip of the mountain, at maybe 100 meters across, is about 40,000 times too small to see. Hell, even the entire MOUNTAIN is smaller than the size of one pixel!

So tell us again, Jimbo, how you can see all those black mountain tops that you waxed so elequent about, but that in reality are acutally several orders of magnitude BELOW the resolution of the image that you posted? (I mean, I've heard of good eye sight before, but the ability to see that which is not even THERE is a new one on me....)

stuart_allsop

03-06-2005, 09:39 PM

That was noble of you, Jimmy.

There you go, Stuart. The job is yours if you want it. :DCool! Thanks, Yaak! I hereby accept, most humbly.... ( yeah right! :) )

stuart_allsop

03-06-2005, 09:49 PM

Some can't handle truth, some can. [quote]Ahhh! Now I understand why you have chosen to completely ignore the sound trouncings that I keep giving your silly little hoaxes and scams, Jimbo, as I continuously prove your claism to be stupidly, morbidly wrong, with help from Boomer, Jay, Yaak, and even Wayne.

The reason why you dare not even acknowledge having read my sizzling debunknigs of your scams (let alone try to come up with a sound refutation) is simply because, as you yourself said above, YOU CANNOT HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!

[quote] The ones that can, will certainly enjoy intelligent conversation from my end. How on earth could you ever hope to conjure up THAT trick! In order to provide an intelligent conversation, you would first have to have some form of intelligence! To date, not the slightest hint of such has been evident... Boomer, on the other hand, has shown vastly greater intelligence than you. She has done the research you were incapable of handling, and she has thoroughly whupped your sorry butt, even politely handing it back to you on a silver platter...

stuart_allsop

03-06-2005, 09:52 PM

Boomer Chick

03-06-2005, 10:01 PM

STU---

Your sharing of local miracles and a kind of personal one really made my evening. Something so stinks on this thread, your post was like a fragrant rose bush in full bloom, white rose buds and fully opened glories radiating light beauty and sweet fragrance in the midst of a barnyard... the wallowing porcine oinker noisily sloshing about in the stinking mud nearby....... but still, the white light and fragrance of truth wafted effortlessly over the stench! !!! Quietly, yet supremely, the truth rose centered all attention upon it, like a white radiating cross in the middle of complete and utter darkness, emanating hope and life!

THANK YOU .... most humbly,

BC ;)

jayreynolds

03-07-2005, 03:45 AM

It's not that dark, but we may be getting into a gray area!

Insurrectionchemistry

03-07-2005, 04:07 AM

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/story.jsp?story=617595

Bush 'Fiddling While
World Burns From
Global Warming'
By Steve Connor
Science Editoor
The Independent - UK
3-7-5

One of Britain's most eminent scientists has attacked President Bush for
acting like a latter-day Nero who fiddles while the world burns because of global
warming.

Lord May of Oxford, the president of the Royal Society and former chief
scientific adviser to the Government, said the Bush administration must accept the
case has been made about the link between man-made pollution and climate
change. Continuing to deny the impact of human activities on the environment may
ultimately have catastrophic consequences for everyone on the planet, he said.

The Royal Society has calculated that the 13 per cent rise in greenhouse gas
emissions from the United States since 1990 will dwarf the cuts resulting from
all other countries that will follow the Kyoto protocol. In a speech to
policy-makers in Berlin today, Lord May will also castigate elements within the
British media who promote "misleading" opinions about the true nature of the
scientific uncertainties surrounding climate change.

"If the public are misled into thinking climate change does not pose a
serious potential threat, some policy-makers could more easily find an excuse not to
act. The United States administration has shown that this is the case," Lord
May said. "All countries must accept the case has been made ... We need to
ensure our own leaders and opinion-formers in the media are not allowed to act as
modern-day Neros over climate change, fiddling while the world burns," Lord
May said.

"There is a real problem and the solutions aren't easy but it doesn't help at
all to have people, for one motive or another, running around misrepresenting
what we do and don't know," he told The Independent.

"One thing we do know for sure is we are changing the composition of carbon
dioxide in the atmosphere and that is going to have effects unless, by some
implausible miracle, everything cancels out," he said.

Lord May accused the Bush administration of doing much to undermine the cuts
in greenhouse gas emissions the Kyoto treaty aimed to bring about.

"President Clinton signed up to the Kyoto treaty in 1998 and a target of
reducing US emissions of greenhouse gases by 8 per cent between 1990 and
2008-2012," Lord May said.

"But President George W Bush indicated in March 2001 that his administration
would renege on that commitment and would not ratify the protocol. Although
there are inherent problems with the Kyoto treaty it still represents the best
way for the world as a whole to stabilise and eventually reduce carbon
emissions. It signified a crucial first step in our efforts to avoid dangerous climate
change by cutting greenhouse gas emissions.

"Small actions now are disproportionately important. They are more important
than bigger actions later because of the non-linearity of the process we are
talking about," he said.

"We need a whole suite of actions that, in a sense, have to have an
underlying embrace that there is a problem, and it is a big problem," he added.

In addition to urging America to ratify the Kyoto agreement, Lord May accused
the Daily Mail of waging an undeclared propaganda war against the science of
climate change.

He accused the newspaper of misleading its readers with a misinformed
campaign.

"It appears to be conducting an undeclared campaign to deny the potential
threat from climate change - in the past 15 months the Daily Mail, which attracts
six million readers every day, has published six opinion pieces, including
four from its science editor, that have used misleading arguments against the
scientific evidence on climate change," Lord May said. "It brings to mind the
ill-fated and disreputable campaign by The Sunday Times during the early 1990s
to deny that HIV causes Aids. It seems that some parts of the media have not
learnt the lessons of that unfortunate campaign."

Lord May, winner of the Crafoord Prize, the equivalent of a mathematics
Nobel, said climate change was so potentially dangerous to the world that people
needed to be fully informed of its future consequences as well as the genuine
uncertainties of the science.

"Like The Sunday Times in the early 1990s, the Daily Mail gives undue
prominence and support to the views of an extreme fringe, and misleads its readers
about the state of our knowledge," Lord May said. "Nuclear power has to be
considered as a viable alternative to fossil fuel that can generate sufficient
power without adding to greenhouse gases."

"It has to be part of tomorrow's future. I've every sympathy with the
attitude that sees it through the emotional haze of a mushroom cloud, and terrorism
makes it even more problematic, but you can't approach the things in emotional
ways. There are real problems with nuclear but it's hard to see it's not part
of the mid-term solution, ultimately one hopes one can move beyond it. We've
got to investigate it now because we're on the verge of losing a generation of
competence in the area."

THE RICH WORLD'S TOP 10 POLLUTERS

Emissions of carbon dioxide in 1990 (the base year for the Kyoto protocol).
All figures are in millions of tons of carbon

United States 1,348.2

Russia 647

Japan 306.7

Germany 276.6

Ukraine 190.9

UK 159

Poland 130

Canada 125.7

Italy 117.9

France 106.6

Insurrectionchemistry

03-07-2005, 04:35 AM

CIA photos circa 1962, the year before JFK was killed, of the Mt. Sinai range volcanoes:

http://home.att.net/~qata/ashcones.htm

http://home.att.net/~qata/tadra.htm

http://home.att.net/~qata/eastaljaw.htm

http://home.att.net/~qata/westaljaw.htm

====

With JFK's interest in the CIA's screw up of these times, he would have certainly been aware of these impressive photos of the Sinai group volcanic zone. And he would have connected up the words of Moses with volcanic effects.

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 05:10 AM

Bush invades the Sierra Nevada Forests! The Sierra Nevada mountain range in California, runs from the northern border near Oregon down hundreds of miles south of the Lake Tahoe region. If you've never hiked the Sierras, you had better
get yourself there this summer to experience its profound beauty, because if Bush and the wood products industry win this dispute --- we all will lose a national treasure beyond compare among other environmental and air quality regulations. I hiked the Sierra Nevadas many times in many places, camped in Yosemite, skiied at Lake Tahoe, and will never forget the redwoods and the awesome beauty and balance of the National Forests.

No mercy, no respect..... ultimately... no carbon sink! All for greed! When will we switch to housing materials not foundationally based on wood products?

http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/030405EA.shtml

"The California attorney general alleges that the Bush administration gave the 2001 plan virtually no time to work before it began the process of revising it. But the 2004 amendment, Lockyer's complaint states, does not merely revise the 2001 version; it revokes it. "

BC :(

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 05:25 AM

'Clear Skies' Plan: The Battle Heats Up
By Brad Knickerbocker
The Christian Science Monitor

http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/E022705X.shtml

Ten state attorneys general are accusing the Bush administration of diluting air-pollution standards.

The congressional fight over the Bush administration's clean air plan has turned into a political knock-down, drag out at several levels. Ten state attorneys general are publicly opposing it. Environmental activists and labor unions are at odds over the measure, illustrating the classic split over jobs versus the environment. State and local air-pollution control officials and agencies have weighed in, prompting the chairman of the Senate environment committee to question their motives and investigate their possible connection to activists.

Two prominent Republican governors - George Pataki of New York and Arnold Schwarzenegger of California - have urged Washington to make sure that states be allowed "to have stronger pollution controls than those set for the nation as a whole," as is the case under current law. Their recent letter to congressional leaders was polite, but it made an important point: That heavily populated areas like New York City and Los Angeles may need stronger laws than those favored by the Bush administration and polluting industries.

Meanwhile, speakers at the annual meeting of the American Association for Advancement of Science this week complained that the administration "has distanced itself from scientific information" on such issues as environmental protection.

President Bush and his supporters in Congress say the "Clear Skies" legislation will reduce emissions of nitrogen oxide, sulfur dioxide, and mercury 70 percent below current levels by 2018, with "major reductions" in the next five years. What's more, they say, a new approach is needed, since attempts to regulate such emissions under the 1970 Clean Air Act typically have been tied up in legal battles. (snip)

________________________________

The Clean Air Act and the Clear Skies legislation ..... oxymorons.

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 05:34 AM

Cooperation in the Air
The Los Angeles Times | Editorial

Saturday 26 February 2005

http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/E022805B.shtml

Conventional wisdom holds that natural selection has over billions of years mostly rewarded creatures that acted out of narrowly defined self-interest. However, since the 1980s, game theorists and evolutionary biologists have shown that cooperation can be crucial to success for many species, which do better by allying in colonies and acting in the joint interest of the group.

The payoff from opportunism, many researchers now say, tends to diminish dramatically over the long term. As Robert Axelrod of the University of Michigan has shown, for instance, small cadres of "cooperators" often can increase their numbers and take over a larger population that is practicing entirely self-interested strategies. In other words, your kindergarten teacher was right: Cooperation really is better than selfishness.

Amen! This selfish paradigm thinking must give way in every sense to the realization that cooperation in local and global community as well as cooperation and respect of nature and natural law --- is the key to future survival.

stuart_allsop

03-07-2005, 05:35 AM

CIA photos circa 1962, the year before JFK was killed, of the Mt. Sinai range volcanoes:Now aint that strange! The close-up high-res aerial photos show that the volcanoes actaully do NOT have black tops!

Oh dear..... How embarrassing for Jimmy Boy....

I wonder what Jimbo will do for an encore, now that he just shot down his own theory?

Insurrectionchemistry

03-07-2005, 05:53 AM

More excellent photos:

http://www.tamilchrist.ch/archaeology/Moses/Red%20Sea%20Crossing.htm

Note one can see Jetho's home and its proximity to the black top Mt. Sinai volcano in one photo, which is part of a very large range of volcanic activity.

It was really not hard to find the real Mt. Sinai and Tennessee is proud of the person that found it. Even the CIA snoopped it out in 1962. Tennesseans are given to truth telling.

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 05:59 AM

The Giant Sequoias can NEVER be replaced! This is a travesty! Even disregarding the carbon sink consideration.... this blatant disrespect and disregard for a global natural treasure.... defies one's expectation of basic human decency. Have they no shame? No regard for the wonders of our natural world and its history? They might as well fill the Grand Canyon with cement with pipes and dams to utilize the power of the river, regulate it, and charge everyone who uses the power.

Attorney General Lockyer Files Legal Challenge to Preserve California's Giant Sequoias
By Office of the AG
YubaNet.com

http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/030405EC.shtml

Thursday 03 March 2005

Moves to block Bush Administration plan to destroy treasured trees.

Attorney General Bill Lockyer today filed a lawsuit to block the Bush Administration's plan to permit commercial logging in the Giant Sequoia National Monument.

"The giant sequoias are more than part of the California landscape," said Lockyer. "They are part of us. They stand as majestic guideposts to our history and treasured symbols of our state. Now, the Bush Administration, continuing to supplicate itself to the timber industry, wants to turn John Muir's 'big trees' into dead wood. We have too much at stake to let them succeed."

The 2000 proclamation by President Clinton (Proclamation) that established the Monument prohibited tree removal in the covered forest land unless "clearly needed" to protect the ecology or public safety. The Bush Administration's Giant Sequoia National Monument Management Plan - adopted in December 2003 - allows an annual timber harvest of at least 7.5 million board feet. In the process, Lockyer's complaint alleges, the Bush plan violates the Proclamation,the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) and the federal Administrative Procedure Act (APA).

(snip)

___________________________________________

You cannot believe the beauty and majesty of the Giant Sequoia Redwood trees! They're awesome as the oldest living things on the face of the planet! Their size alone will blow you away! And to think they lived at the same time Jesus was walking on our earth and are living monuments to history itself!

Insurrectionchemistry

03-07-2005, 06:01 AM

A Tennessean just told the truth on Mt. Sinai's location and its right close to where Moses brother in law Jethro lived.

http://www.pinkoski.com/files/index.php?id=34

Firmly established are Mt. Sinai's volcanic associations, as well as its location near Midian. Midian is an area with lots of very old Gold Mines, which associate well to the volcanic activities there and the old Jewish presence. http://www.a1wdb.com/cgi-bin/women/12038.html

In the times of Soloman, who erected the Red Sea Crossing Monuments, these mines had played out. Soloman used the Gulf Of Aqaba for his ship fleet and sought other distant volcanic areas to mine for gold. It was the gold accumulated from around Midian and other distant mines that was used to build the Soloman's Temple of Moses' god. Volcanic zone derived gold was the cladding on the Temple and part of its inner secrets. The inner desires for these temple related types has always been gold and the power it acquires.

Moses, the adoped son of an Eqyptian, brought with him the interests of the Egytian mining temples for gold. Moses real god was part volcano, and a huge part gold. The temples that were later based on Moses' god, were highly adorned with gold and the volcano derived gold part of their inner secrets. This was the basis of Soloman's temple of gold and god.

If bible history tells it sounds like a volcano, smokes like a volcano, has column of fire at night, has ash and cinders on top like a volcano---its a volcano.

Similarly, when the temple and the ark are clad in gold as a symbol for a volcano ranges real interests for a religion's god, the obcession of that religion is gold.

Likewise, those that follow that same religions inner methods, the persuits of gold, are the Jewish bloodlines that know the inner secrets. The Jewish associated Bilderburgs, Rothschilds, Rockefellers, etc.

Their religion is about gold. Money the root of all Evil. This is the true axis of evil.

The Masonic Great Seal symbolism on the back of a dollar bill speaks to this inner secret. The Egypians gave Moses their mining temple knowledge to mine volcanoes for gold, which became the inner secrets of religion and power.

JFK was killed because he figured out these associations.

===

===

halva

03-07-2005, 06:38 AM

One of Britain's most eminent scientists has attacked President Bush for
acting like a latter-day Nero who fiddles while the world burns because of global
warming.

Lord May of Oxford, the president of the Royal Society and former chief
scientific adviser to the Government, said the Bush administration must accept the
case has been made about the link between man-made pollution and climate
change. Continuing to deny the impact of human activities on the environment may
ultimately have catastrophic consequences for everyone on the planet, he said.

Given existing political institutions,there is no way that this demand of Lord May can be imposed, even in the European Union, much less in the United States.

stuart_allsop

03-07-2005, 10:10 AM

... close to where Moses brother in law Jethro lived. ...Well, now, this is getting to be REALLY interesting! So Jethro starts out as Moses brother, then turns into his Father in Law, and has now become his Brother in Law! That's a pretty amazing transition for one man, don't you think Jimbo?

Soloman used the Gulf Of Aqaba for his ship fleet and sought other distant volcanic areas to mine for gold.Then I'd LOVE to see your theory on how he got the ships overland to Joppa, which was their home port! Do you think he maybe sailed them up the Suez canal? Or did he take the long way around, stopping in at Cape Town for restocking?

It was the gold accumulated from around Midian and other distant mines that was used to build the Soloman's Temple of Moses' god.Ooops! Too bad you don't read the Bible, Jimbo. If you did, then you could have avoided yet another major gaff. King David, Solomon's father, supplied the gold for the temple. God had forbidden David to actually build the temple, but did allow him to gather the materials that would be needed, and when David died most of those materials were already on hand, including the gold. In fact, Solomon didn't build his shipping fleet until decades AFTER the temple was finished, so it's kind of hard to see the connetion here.

Similarly, when the temple and the ark are clad in gold as a symbol for a volcano ranges real interests for a religion's god, the obcession of that religion is gold.Nope. In fact, God's Law that Moses handed to the people specifically forbade worshipping any kind of idol at all, including gold objects of any shape or form, and ONLY permitted worship of God himself.

Money the root of all Evil. That's a misquote from the Bible. It does not say that "Money is the root of all evil". You need to pay better attention, Jimbo.

jayreynolds

03-07-2005, 10:41 AM

"President Clinton signed up to the Kyoto treaty in 1998 and a target of
reducing US emissions of greenhouse gases by 8 per cent between 1990 and
2008-2012," Lord May said.

"But President George W Bush indicated in March 2001 that his administration
would renege on that commitment and would not ratify the protocol.

Somebody needs to give LORD May a lesson on the US Constitution. A treaty isn't ratified till the SENATE ratifies it by a 2/3 majority vote, so LORD May is totally misplacing his blame. In reality he has to address the American People, which he won't do. Americans don't jump into treaties lightly. The whole thing is for internal consumption.

jayreynolds

03-07-2005, 11:26 AM

The Giant Sequoias can NEVER be replaced! This is a travesty! Even disregarding the carbon sink consideration.... this blatant disrespect and disregard for a global natural treasure.... defies one's expectation of basic human decency. Have they no shame? No regard for the wonders of our natural world and its history? They might as well fill the Grand Canyon with cement with pipes and dams to utilize the power of the river, regulate it, and charge everyone who uses the power.

The article doesn't state that any of the Old Growth groves would be cut, and they won't.
Actually, the conditions for renewal of the groves would mean burning the whole place up, and that hasn't been allowed for 100 years.

Truthout appears prone to alarmist scaremongering.

Here is the reason why the old giants won't be cut, they are worthless for lumber:

The wood from huge old-growth giant sequoia trees does not make good lumber, despite the its resistance to decay, because it is brittle and has little strength. Nevertheless, sequoias were logged in the 1870's and their wood was used for fenceposts and shake shingles. Since the 1890's, most of the groves of giant sequoia have been protected by California state parks and Yosemite, King's Canyon, and Sequoia National Parks so that all Californians may enjoy their stately grandeur.

Unfortunately, protection of groves from fire has reduced the regeneration of giant sequoia and pines, and led to an increase in the amount of California white fir. Prescribed fire and mechanical seed bed preparation is one option for regenerating some groves, although such treatment is generally not consistent with National Park policy.

Young growth sequoias, unlike old growth sequoias, have wood properties similar to young growth redwood and is suitable for lumber. There have been successful plantations of the sequoia outside its natural range. In fact, the tree has grown vigorously when planted around the world. On proper sites it outperforms most other species. The best plantations average 1.6-2.3 feet of height growth and 0.5 to 0.8 inches of diameter growth per year.
http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/departments/espm/extension/SEQUOIA.HTM

Basically, the choice is to burn the sequoia groves regularly, or log out the undergrowth.
Which would you prefer, BC?
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sequoia/photo_galleries/giant_sequoia/pics/starv_fuels.jpg
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sequoia/photo_galleries/giant_sequoia/giant_sequoia_photo_gallery.html

see, the whole story is never as simple as those with agendas make it appear...........

halva

03-07-2005, 12:11 PM

Somebody needs to give LORD May a lesson on the US Constitution. A treaty isn't ratified till the SENATE ratifies it by a 2/3 majority vote, so LORD May is totally misplacing his blame. In reality he has to address the American People, which he won't do. Americans don't jump into treaties lightly. The whole thing is for internal consumption.

Yeah, put the LORD in red, Raynolds.

Being a Lord obliges a person to maintain certain standards of (at least) public behaviour, which gives some strata of the community the opportunity to live with what they imagine to be dignity.

By the way, your declarations are also for internal consumption, by Yaak and Whitemajikman, or whoever.

halva

03-07-2005, 12:18 PM

Probably you think the concept of PRINCE is pretty funny too.

It is from the concept of "prince" that the idea of "principles" is derived. "Principles" are what one associates with a prince. The style of behaviour, like.

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 12:56 PM

From volcanoes possibly existing in Moses's day, we get the following conclusion of which there is neither archaeological support, Biblical support, or related ancient documental support. A person drawing such conclusions from distant geological facts then creating lines of supposition and connection in their imagination to social/religiopolitical constructs and power mechinations of today merely uses one's imagination. Historical facts cannot be drawn upon this type of reasoning. Mining volcanoes! Gold mixed with religions that decry false golden idols, gold as some kind of power element, all passed down through history to today -- fantasy thinking and in its severe form ---- delusional.

THIS IS A NON-FACTUAL STATEMENT:

"The Egyptians gave Moses their mining temple knowledge to mine volcanoes for gold, which became the inner secrets of religion and power."

He ties that in to today with a reference to JFK knowing all this and threatening to out this alchemical/religion/power/symbol/cabal knowledge.

_________________________________________

For futher readings about fantasy thinking:

http://www.gesher.org/Neurocare/Medical%20Education/Jungian%20Studies/J_empirical_s/two_kinds_of_thinking.html

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=15093

http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/projects/esm/MTaylor2000.html

______________________________________

A forum board for fantasy thinkers:

http://www.thefantasyforum.com/archive/index.php/

______________________________________
http://www.tearsofllorona.com/jungdefs.html

Jung's definition of thinking:

Thinking: comes in two forms: directed (corresponding to thinking as a function and is in a circular relationship with language) and the sponteous, creative, nonverbal kind--"dream" or "fantasy" thinking. The directed kind harks back historically to the first calls that water had been found but isn't exactly the same as inner language (e.g., deaf mutes). Fantasy thinking connects directed thinking to the archaic psyche.

Jung's definition of religion: (just posted for contemplation -- agree or disagree in your own thought process)

Religion: a subjective relationship to certain metaphysical, extramundane factors. A kind of experience accorded the highest value, regardless of its contents. The essence is the person's relationship to God or salvation. Jung called them psychotherapeutic systems and believed they contained, offered a gradiant for, and transformed instinctual (hence asceticism), nonpersonal energies, giving people a cultural counterpole to blind instinct, help through difficult transitional stages, and a sense of meaning. They also help separate the growing person from his parents. For Jung, the unconscious had a religious function, and religion rests on an instinctive basis. Different from creeds, which are codified and dogmatized versions of a religious experience. Creeds usually say they have THE truth and are a collective belief. For Jung, no contradiction existed between faith and knowledge because science has nothing to say about metaphysical events, and beliefs are psychological facts that need no proof.

Increasing exogamous libidinal tendencies over the centuries have caused endogamous libido to react by forming religions, sects, and nations (see cross-cousin marriage, aion). [note: libidinal in Jung's terminology does not refer to subconscious/sexual libido that Freud so coined.]

Religions collect projections of parent imagos (Pope, church as mother, etc.) in a positive way--let the imagos live on in a changed and exalted form within traditions that preserve living connections and roots for centuries. Instinct expresses itself in traditional form, and when the traditions break down or the images are lost, the energy activates the unconscious dangerously. Isms and the State then replace tradition and hierarchical order.

Dementia praecox: old name for Janet's "psychasthenia" and Bleuler's term "schizophrenia" and Jung's "introversion neurosis" and encompassing several of what are now different mental disorders. Jung thought it caused by powerful complexes subverting the ego and speculated about an organic "toxin." Jung also pointed out that psychiatrists saw only the worst cases because these were institutionalized. Jung discovered mythological themes in the delusions and hallucinations of schizophrenics and realized their similarity to dreams and so-called "primitive" myths.

Alchemy: the ancient attempt to create the Philosopher's Stone and mutable gold. In the West, mainly of Egyptian origin and Arabic elaboration, but also with Gnostic roots, especially in the idea that the world soul was trapped in matter. Beginning with the prima materia, the alchemist heated, cooked, and washed the substance until it passed through the four stages of nigredo, albedo, cinitritas, and rubedo and became the Stone. Jung saw the opus alchymicum, the work of alchemy, as an unconscious projection of the process of individuation, which starts with an unconscious content (prima materia) and end with the realization of the Self symbol (Philosopher's Stone).

The alchemical process, which began in the spring and ended in the fall, was an extended act of active imagination (meditatio) fired by awareness and libido. (See my brilliant, witty, and otherwise wonderful paper "Cooking For The Collective Unconscious" for a summary of the parallel of alchemy with Jungian psychology.) Alchemy also bridged Gnosticism and psychology. Jung saw in it a historical counterpart to his psychology of the collective unconscious. Alchemy finally died out in the eighteenth century.

Note: for Dorn, producing the Lapis constituted only the second stage (for Jung the representation of the idea of the Self in visible form). The third: the union of the whole man with the unus mundus. Union with the Ground of all being. Identity or relation of the personal with the suprapersonal atman, or individual with universal tao. A perfect synthesis of conscious and unconscious

________________________________

There's nothing inherently wrong with fantasy thinking as long as one doesn't confuse it with historical facts. Fantasy thinking has probably led to many an invention, many innovations, reams of science fiction books, great symbolic allegorical stories from the Illyiad and Odessey to Tokien's works, great visual art works, music compositions, and quite a wealth of cultural creation. BUT, fantasies imposed upon historic events.... only cloud our view of the past and prevent us from seeing the true and valid motivations and reasons behind various human fueled events.

________________________________

The flip side or severe form of fantasy thinking is just plain old "delusional thinking."

http://www.cf.ac.uk/psych/home/bellv1/pubs/BellHalliganEllis2003.doc

_________________________________

Delusional thinking can range from functional to totally dysfunctional. Often delusional thinking which overtakes the personality, the break from reality, signals true mental disorder.

Anyone reading this thread and following one of the posters will suspect either of these two kinds of thinking (fantasy -- delusional) or both in the statements and relative support for those statements. Along with this apparent and very obvious trend flows the poster's libidinal propensity to "project." And severe forms of judgmentalism and intrenched inflexibility color the rest of this poster's personality as revealed through his posts.

I only referenced Jung as a modern psychological thinker, not the run of the mill psychiatrist. Many may disagree with his interpretations but for those reading, the information is given.

BC :rolleyes:

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 02:20 PM

ABOUT SEQUOIAS:

You're not reading the material carefully, Jay. Truthout doesn't publish and create the material, either. They publish in the environmental articles section, articles which others publish. They only collect articles and post them for convenience for the reader. The new plans, in essence, leave protections out that were previously passed and expressed in clear language. The lack of such clear language, then allows for more lax interpretation by the logging companies. Attorneys General are not prone to action like this unless there is a real threat to the ancient stands. I'm sorry, Jay, this isn't a little scream and cry from the "treehuggers" this time. It's a genuine concern and it will simply intensify as time goes on. Your little statement regarding tall redwoods not being lumber material is simply not factual. If it is, show me links that support your statement .Many timber companies make composites products nowadays that use all kinds of wood material if the planks themselves are not usuable for structural purposes. And many smaller wood items such as cabinets, coffee tables, decks, and fencing all take advantage of the water repellent and stain soaking qualities of redwood. But we must remember that it's a slow growing tree and if we log too heavily, the regrowth will take decades to produce again. My solution is to find other tree species to log and replant and in the best case scenario, develop new materials from the earth with which to create comfortable abodes.

From article originally posted in a small CA community paper:

Additionally, the 2003 plan is not really a plan at all, the complaint alleges. This defect frustrates the public's ability to understand the actions that will be taken under the plan and their environmental consequences, according to the complaint. In place of a management plan with specific standards and guidelines, the complaint alleges, the USFS refers to a patchwork of previously adopted forest management documents that have been superseded or modified.

The Bush plan "has so little detail and analysis that it is impossible to discern how the diverse resources and extraordinary number of habitats within the Monument will be managed, or which of the overlapping set of guidelines from the patchwork of conflicting planning directives applies," the complaint alleges.

The Bush Administration's "failure to adopt a discernible management plan," as well as its failure to adequately assess alternative approaches or the environmental effects of the 2003 plan, violates the Proclamation, NEPA and APA, according to Lockyer's complaint. Additionally, the complaint alleges the 2003 plan violates the 1990 Sequoia Mediated Settlement Agreement (MSA). The MSA resolved disputes over the 1988 land and resource management plan for the Sequoia National Forest, which encompasses the Monument. The Attorney General's Office is a party to the MSA.

Six conservation groups on January 27, 2005 filed a similar federal-court challenge to Bush's management plan for the Monument.

Giant sequoias, which sometimes grow taller than 270 feet and reach diameters of 30 feet, exist only in the Sierra Nevada. Their ancestors graced the Earth as far back as 20 million years ago. The Monument is home to 38 sequoia groves, 1,000 miles of trails, including three national trails, four stretches of wild and scenic rivers, and more than 50 developed campgrounds, including 144 campsites located in the groves.

More information on it:

http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0127-14.htm

http://www.the-tree.org.uk/Sacred%20Grove/redwoods.htm

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/15/81314/3556

Redwood specialist from my primary alma mater:

http://www.sempervirens.org/doctor.htm

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/sci/A0844465.html

http://www.cypresswoodworks.com/Sequoia.htm

http://www.eenews.net/Greenwire/include/print.php?single=01280521

"The lawsuit filed today is the second major legal challenge mounted this year by Lockyer against the Bush Administration's forest policies. On February 1, 2005, he sued in federal court to set aside the USFS plan to cut down more trees and reduce wildlife protections in 11.5 million acres of Sierra Nevada National Forest land. "

From Greenwire article above:

In a letter earlier this month, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) urged Rey to reconsider the plan and add protections for 4.5 million acres of old-growth stands. "I believe there would be much less public concern over the revised plan if Californians knew that our old growth forests as well as our fire-threatened communities were being protected," Feinstein wrote.

JR:

The article doesn't state that any of the Old Growth groves would be cut, and they won't.
Actually, the conditions for renewal of the groves would mean burning the whole place up, and that hasn't been allowed for 100 years.

Controlled burns in redwood forests have been considered, even by invironmentalists, to be superior to logging. Controlled burns are indeed used in some redwood areas ---- I'm tired of linking so if you want to argue this point, please provide your own links.

It's cold here today! Worked in the garden yesterday clearing fall die off, watering, fertilized here and there, looking much better! Tulips rising, iris rising, new small leaves of the Hollyhocks, grape hyacinth leafed out.

Our ponderosas cannot compare to the majestic and beautiful redwoods! Jay, your pictures were beautiful! However, the site page was fairly old and the notion that smaller trees are "starving" because of the tall redwoods is ludicrous. That's how nature is. Your supporting link for redwood not being suitable for lumber, mentioned that logging the redwoods was done anyway. I witnessed it in Humboldt county as well. Loggers want the wood, as it does sell well, is expensive because it is rare, and it's used in many other ways besides supportive timber planks in home building. No one would be grumbling if the logging was more regulated and the proposed acreage was not so vast.

BC

Insurrectionchemistry

03-07-2005, 05:40 PM

Someone is spamming the list with off topic issues on tree cutting.

This has nothing to do with global warming, climate change, the ozone hole, using jet planes to remediate these factors, etc.

Nor the chemical processes, mechanisms, and cover ups that link to chemtrials.

This is not the tree hugger thread. It may how ever be the thread for the wives of weapons of mass destruction factories on colorado, who like to engage in spamming and distraction.

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 06:11 PM

The carbon sinks offered by healthy forests are essential to the balance of our atmospheric system. Discussing the destruction of the forests is indeed a part of the climate conversation. In terms of heating and cooling, forests offer a cooling effect. They maintain moisture, they use carbon dioxide, and indeed they are an important componant of climate and atmospheric molecular considerations. Concerning controlled burning, the CO2 from the smoke produced is also a consideration in the climate equation. Logging adds dust and diesel truck emissions to the atmosphere and disturbs the ecological system of which we speak.

Fantasy, on the other hand, doesn't lend any credibility to the climate discussion.

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 06:41 PM

I will now post with copying and pasting for the reader's convenience, articles related to HAARP. That has been my main concern after I realized contrails, persistent and weird which form cirrus clouds, are a relatively minor component (compared to others) regarding climate change. Only jet-fuel so far has been proven to be the emission constituent of airliners. As far as grid formations by military jets, I have not, and no one else on this board, has proven the component of the emmissions. So I am now concentrating on HAARP information.

HAARP

This article may be older than I would like, but it nonetheless offers interesting information. After posting on this, I will attempt to find updated information as well.

http://www.extraterrestrial.ca/earthchanges.html

Clare Zickuhr and Gar Smith of Earth Island describe how HAARP, under cover of being a project to research the Northern Lights in Alaska, is actually a top-secret military electro-magnetic (EM) weapons system. HAARP, the U.S. secret project to alter the ionosphere for (EM) warfare purposes, has drastic environmental consequences, which are now operational.
The following segment details HAARP’s destructive impacts on wildlife, human life, and nature itself by causing long-term modifications. HAARP may in fact violate the 1977 Environmental Modification Convention, which bans all "military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting, or severe effects...." The US ratified the convention in 1979.

Anti-HAARP activists in the Yukon area in Alaska, near the site of the HAARP installation, recently reported that the Alaska public is largely unaware of HAARP, nor cognizant of its environmental and health dangers.

[b]HAARP’s Environmental Consequences[b] - Wildlife advocates also have cause to be concerned. The HAARP site lies 140 miles north of the town of Cordova on Prince William Sound, on the northwest tip of Alaska's Wrangell-St. Elias National Park. Since ordinary radar is known to be deadly to low-flying birds, HAARP's powerful radiation beam could pose a problem for migratory birds because the transmitter stands in the path of the critical Pacific Flyway. In addition, HAARP's ability to generate strong magnetic fields could conceivably interfere with the migration of birds, marine life and Arctic animals that are now known to rely on the Earth's magnetic fields to navigate over long distances.

The HAARP fact sheet states that "most of the energy of the high-power beam would be emitted upward rather than toward the horizon." Later on, however, the fact sheet notes that care will have to be taken "to reduce the percentage of time large signal levels would be transmitted toward large cities." The closest large cities are Fairbanks and Anchorage.

“Even if HAARP's beam were to be directed primarily at the ionosphere, people on the ground would still have reason to be concerned. According to DoD consultant Robert Windsor, clear damp nights, downdrafts and temperature inversions can cause "ducting" and "super-refracting" that can send energy beams streaming back to Earth with "a significant -- up to tenfold-increase in field intensity."

In addition to their main beams, all electromagnetic transmitters produce large swaths of "sidelobe" radiation along their flanks. US-based PAVE PAWS over-the-horizon radars, for example, use approximately one megawatt of power to send a 420-430-megahertz (MHz) beam on a 3000-mile-long sweep. At the same time, the "incidental" sidelobe radiation from these Pentagon radars can disable TVs, radios, radar altimeters and satellite communications over a 250-mile range. PAVE PAWS radiation can also disrupt cardiac pacemakers seven miles away and cause the "inadvertent detonation" of electrically triggered flares and bombs in passing aircraft. At peak power, the energy driving HAARP could be more than a thousand times stronger than the most powerful PAVE PAWS transmitter.

_________________________________________

So far are there any disagreements with this information?

halva

03-07-2005, 06:52 PM

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 06:54 PM

HAARP's High-Level Hazards

http://www.extraterrestrial.ca/earthchanges.html (same article)

“HAARP project manager John Heckscher, a scientist at the Department of the Air Force's Phillips Laboratory, has called concerns about the transmitter's impact "unfounded." "It's not unreasonable to expect that something three times more powerful than anything that's previously been built might have unforeseen effects," Heckscher told Microwave News. "But that's why we do environmental impact statements."

“The July 1993 EIS does, in fact, admit that HAARP is expected to cause "measurable changes in the ionosphere's electron density, temperature and structure," but argues that these disruptions are insignificant "when compared to changes induced by naturally occurring processes."

“Subjecting the ionosphere to HF bombardment can ionize the neutral particles in the upper atmosphere. The HAARP Fact Sheet notes that "ionospheric disturbances at high altitudes also can act to induce large currents in electric power grids" on the ground, causing massive power blackouts. According to the 1990 Air Force-Navy document, power levels of one gigawatt and above "can drastically alter [the ionosphere's] thermal, refractive, scattering and emission character." While the ionosphere over the government's smaller HF transmitter in Puerto Rico is relatively "stable," the document notes that the ionosphere above Alaska is "a dynamic entity" where added bursts of electromagnetic energy could trigger exaggerated effects.

“Writing in Physics and Society (the quarterly newsletter of the American Physical Society), Dr. Richard Williams, a consultant to Princeton University's David Sarnoff Laboratory, denounced ionospheric heating tests as irresponsible and potentially dangerous.
"Trace [chemical] constituents in the upper atmosphere can have a profound effect" on the formation of ozone molecules, Williams stated. It is known that altering the temperature of the ionosphere can affect the chemical reactions that produce ozone. Referring to the Montreal Protocol (the international agreement to protect the ozone layer from ozone-depleting chemicals), Williams warned that activating HAARP's ionospheric heater "might undo all that we have accomplished with this treaty."

"Look at the power levels that will be used -- 10**9 to 10**11 watts!" Williams told the Journal in a recent interview. "This is equivalent to the output of ten to 100 large power-generating stations. A ten-billion-watt generator, running continuously for one hour, would deliver a quantity of energy equal to that of a Hiroshima-sized atomic bomb."

"Of course," Williams added, "they will operate in a pulsed mode [producing a series of short, powerful bursts], rather than continuously." The HAARP fact sheet states that the HF beam, which operates in the 2.8-10 MHz band, will only be used 4-5 times a year for several weeks at a time over a 20-year period. Nonetheless, Williams argued, to proceed without a full public discussion of HAARP's potential impacts runs the risk of committing "an irresponsible act of global vandalism. With experiments on this scale," Williams concluded, "irreparable damage could be done in a short time. The immediate need is for open discussion."

[the opposing position:]

“Dr. Daniel N. Baker, director of the University of Colorado's Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics, offered a less-alarming assessment. "The natural input of energy to the magnetosphere from the sun is very commonly 10**11 - 10**12 watts," Baker told the Journal. "Thus, HAARP may be a small fraction of the energy that flows into the region." Baker added that the ionosphere is, by nature, a "highly dynamic and fluctuating" environment that is able to "flush" away energy disturbances in a matter of hours or days.

[countering the opposing position:]

“Of course, in nature, one cannot simply "flush" something away without anticipating potential "downstream" consequences. Caroline L. Herzenberg, an environmental systems engineer at the Argonne National Laboratory, has suggested that, by "changing the chemical composition of the atmosphere; [and] transporting plumes of particulates or plasma within the atmosphere," HAARP may violate the 1977 Environmental Modification Convention, which bans all "military or any other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting, or severe effects...." The US ratified the convention in 1979.

___________________________________________

Any comments?

halva

03-07-2005, 06:55 PM

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 07:09 PM

continued:

"X-Raying" the Earth?

“On June 14, 1995, a Senate committee report noted that the Deputy Secretary of Defense had called for increasing HAARP funding from $5 million to $75 million in the 1996 defense budget. The sudden increase would be used to promote a disturbing new mission for HAARP.
“Instead of just pouring its vast energy into the skies, the transmitter's power would be aimed back at the planet to "allow Earth-penetrating tomography over most of the northern hemisphere" -- in effect, turning HAARP into the world's most powerful "X-ray machine" capable of scanning regions hidden deep beneath the planet's surface.” According to the Senate report, this would "permit the detection and precise location of tunnels... and other underground shelters. The absence of such a capability has been... a serious weakness for [DoD] plans for precision attacks on hardened targets...."

"Visibility is a crude criterion for assessing environmental damage.... An unprecedented amount of energy can produce an unprecedented reaction. Experimenting with [the ionosphere] is a very delicate thing. A localized event can spread around the Earth fairly quickly." -- Prof. Dick Williams

“Meanwhile, construction on the larger HAARP facility -- with a potential effective radiated power of 1.7 GW (1.7 billion watts) – [was begun] in 1995. This expanded version would require additional funding from Congress. According to the 1990 project document: "The desired world-class facility... will cost on the order of $25-30 million." The Senate Committee's April report, however, predict[ed] that the cost "could be as much as $90 million."

Presumably a federal Environmental Impact Statement of HAARP’s potential impact would allow the Earth sciences to evaluate the potential impacts of this electromagnetic weapons system. Such has not been the case, however. [updates on this would be appreciated] Important issues regarding the effect of HAARP operations on the ionosphere and on the ozone layer were dismissed in less than a one page treatment in the HAARP environmental impact statement drafted by the military.

The Earth Island article continues. “The Federal Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS) reports that “the government commissioned a special study” to determine the “bioeffects” of HAARP’s radio frequency radiation (RFR). The report concluded that “chronic exposure to RFR….did not result in demonstrable, detrimental health effects” to humans. The FEIS admitted that RFR exposure could cause the human body to heat up, but that this unwanted heat “can be easily accommodated within the thermoregulatory capabilities of an individual [and] may not necessarily be harmful.”

“The FEIS corroborated the Journal’s concern that “potentially affected systems…[would] include cardiac pacemakers, electro-explosive devices [EEDs], and fuel handling systems.” EEDs, including flares carried by individuals or in vehicles, could be exploded 1300 feet from HAARP’s Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI) transmitter – a quarter mile away.

“Radio frequency radiation could be a problem since, as FEIS notes, Gakona lies “within a major commercial air traffic corridor that links Anchorage with the eastern and midwestern US. It is also within the path of flights to and from the Orient and Canada. Twelve to 20 commercial flights a day utilize the airspace above the Gakona site.”

“The IRI’s 8.0 MHz and 10.0 MHz beams “could potentially pose a hazard to occupants of aircraft flying nearby…in the unlikely event they remain in the main beam for an extended period of time.” At aircraft cruising altitude of 30,000 feet (5.7 miles) the inverted cone formed by the sweep of the IRI beam is 6.8 miles wide.

“Countering assumptions that most of HAARP’s energy would be “lost” in space, the FEIS reveals that “80-90 percent of the experiments would employ the IRI in modes that refract fundamental radio frequency energy Earthward from the ionosphere.

_______________________________

Comments?

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 07:17 PM

continued:

“The 440-page FEIS states flatly that “The ozone layer would not be affected and ozone would not be depleted” as a result of HAARP operations, but devotes less than a page to this critical topic. The only study cited is a single 13 page “draft assessment” by the Mission Research Corporation (MRC).

“The FEIS spends less than three pages on HAARP’s ionospheric effects and bases its conclusions solely on “personal communications” between officials at MRC and the consulting firm of Metcalf and Eddy. The FEIS reports that IRI transmissions will cause the temperature of free electrons in the Earth’s ionosphere to rise by 80 degrees F. Below 120 miles, the IRI would trigger a 20 percent increase in “electron density;” above 124 miles, electron densities would decrease 10-15 percent. The effect could last “an entire polar night.”

“A second study, “Independent Assessment of HAARP’s effects on the Upper Atmosphere” by R. Roble, also concluded, “there are no measurable effects to the Earth’s ozone layer.” The FEIS identified this study as having been provided by MRC. The study was described as consisting of “one-page.”

“The authors of the Journal’s HAARP story remain convinced that the potential impacts of Project HAARP deserve a thorough scientific and public hearing.”

The forces behind HAARP have thus used secrecy to prevent a public examination of its potential environmental consequences. Key issues such as HAARP’s impact on the ozone layer and on the ionosphere were disposed of in less than one page of analysis, based on verbal communications with a biased consultant. Not even the requirements of National Environmental Policy Act have been able to penetrate the armor of secrecy, deception, and evasion regarding HAARP’s environmental impact on the ionosphere, the magnetic bands surrounding the Earth, and ultimately on the tectonic plate system that makes up the Earth’s surface.

The forces behind electromagnetic warfare have used deception, not oversight or omission as a weapon to trick or lull public examination of HAARP’s potentially catastrophic environmental consequences. Presumably a federal Environmental Impact Statement of HAARP’s potential impact would allow the Earth sciences to evaluate the impacts of this electromagnetic weapons system. Again, important issues regarding the effect of HAARP operations on the ionosphere and on the ozone layer were dismissed in less than a one-page treatment in the HAARP environmental impact statement drafted by the military. This is not sloppy or incomplete work. The deliberate trivialization of HAARP’s true environmental consequences is large-scale deception, facilitating possible genocide of the human race.

________________________________

Comment?

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 07:23 PM

The OI-KI-A group watched the BBC "Global dimming": video yesterday.

It contains these assertions:

"NARRATOR: INDOEX showed that the pollution particles were blocking some sunlight themselves; but far more significant was what they were doing to the clouds. They were turning them into giant mirrors. Clouds are made of droplets of water. These only form when water vapour in the atmosphere starts to condense on the surface of naturally occurring airborne particles, typically pollen or sea salt. As they grow, the water droplets eventually become so heavy they fall as rain. But Ramanathan found that polluted air contained far more particles than the unpolluted air, particles of ash, soot and sulphur dioxide.

PROF VEERABHADRAN RAMANATHAN: We saw ten times more particles in the polluted air mass north of the Maldives compared with what we saw south of the Maldives which was a pristine air mass.

NARRATOR: In the polluted air billions of man-made particles provided ten times as many sites around which water droplets could form. So polluted clouds contained many more water droplets, each one far smaller than it would be naturally. Many small droplets reflect more light than fewer big ones. So the polluted clouds were reflecting more light back into space, preventing the heat of the sun getting through. This was the cause of Global Dimming."

How plausible is it that clouds would become more reflective just from being "polluted"??

Is it true that clouds in "polluted" air contain smaller droplets than clouds in unpolluted air?

Would the presence of sulfates produce this reflective effect?

What KIND of clouds were they speaking of? Cumulous clouds or cirrus clouds? There's a vast difference in their particulate and water construction and their radiative heat and reflective sunlight compositions. Please try to ascertain what KIND of clouds they determined as highly reflective and also highly moist. I would venture to say that cumulous would fit the description at this point. In other articles I have posted, the cirrus have no reflective qualities, little diffusion of the sun's rays and heat, and a large capacity to keep the earth's heat IN. The cumulous produce rain, reflect the sun's light from on top, and actually cool moreso than the cirrus.

Thanks, Halva!

BC ;)

Insurrectionchemistry

03-07-2005, 07:30 PM

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 07:33 PM

continued:

http://www.extraterrestrial.ca/earthchanges.html

The New Strategic Weapons

Bear in mind that military policy makers see electromagnetic (EM) weapons as the new generation of strategic weapons, taking the place of thermo-nuclear weapons as a strategic weapon of choice. Nuclear weapons are considered relatively rigid in response – they can only produce utter devastation of a targeted area. By contrast the top-secret, new generation of electromagnetic weapons can achieve a variety of modulated, strategic objectives:

? Degree of destructiveness – Unlike nuclear weapons, the degree of destructiveness desired can be modulated by controlling the intensity, scope, and duration of the electromagnetic energy.

? Destruction of global communications – Environmental weapons can be used to selectively destroy all or portions of the global system of communications – military communications; civilian telecommunications.

? Manipulation of weather and climate – Environmental weapons can alter weather and climate over enemy or targeted areas, denying populations a food base, and causing havoc in a targeted economy.

? Destruction of ecosystems – Environmental weapons can destroy the very ecology of a targeted area, or of the Earth itself, including depletion of the ozone layer and of the ionosphere; destruction through climate warfare of the ecosystems of habitable lands; forests; water systems.

? Earth changes – Environmental weapons can cause ionospheric and magnetic changes in the Earth’s atmosphere, which in turn can trigger destructive earthquakes, or if the tectonic plate system is affected, massive Earth changes. Early research has already suggested a causal relationship between earthquakes and changes in the ionosphere. For example, ionospheric disturbances detected and ascribed to earthquakes such as the Alaska Earthquake of 1964. New research suggests that electromagnetic weapons could bring about a destructive shift in the Earth’s poles; both by altering the electromagnetic content of the atmosphere, and through climatological change.

? Population and mind control – Environmental weapons can be used to alter the moods, mental states, and perceptions of entire populations, be they of a targeted city, region, nation, continent, or indeed global. Environmental weapons can stun an entire enemy, targeted, or domestic population into submissive acceptance of government actions. Controlled electromagnetic stimulation of the brain at specified frequencies can cause the brain to lock into phase with an external source. Your thoughts, impulses, emotions, fears can be controlled.

This can be done on a mass scale, by pulsing a region or region with electromagnetic weapons. An entire population can be manipulated, be it an enemy population, or a friendly or domestic population. In the United States, electromagnetic population control weapons have already secretly been tested on the populations of West Coast cities, in California and in the Pacific Northwest.

_______________________________

This questioning above came from their reading of the Angels Don't Play That Harp book by Begich and Manning. I expect some commentary on this. I do believe they will cover the answering of the questions in the following part. Much of this is review. I also skipped the references to Tesla and Eastlund.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-07-2005, 07:41 PM

halva

03-07-2005, 07:44 PM

What KIND of clouds were they speaking of? Cumulous clouds or cirrus clouds?

There's nothing to go by other than the transcript. I suppose I could look at the video again and see what kind of clouds seem to be on the screen at that point in the script.

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 07:45 PM

The CO-2 equation is dominated by abosrption of CO-2 by the plankton of the oceans that occupy 2/3 of the Earth's surface. The UV radiation determines the plankton's rate of CO-2 conversion and the concentration of CO-2 in the air.

Logging of that type is negligible toward CO-2 conversion, especially when the trees are replanted. It is pure non-sense to propose logging that replants trees is a CO-2 issue. Suggesting such is providing misinformation or what is called setting up a hoax.

The US won't ever go after emissions cuts on CO-2 sources directly, it will go after emission cuts that lower the UV levels or increase the ozone filtering levels for UV.

Forests as carbon sinks may be relatively inconsequential compared to the ocean's influence, but all aspects of a balancing system add up. I do not wish to set up a hoax. Replanting does indeed help. And the consideration of forest fires regarding thinning is also important as huge forest fires themselves do not help the CO2 particulate equation. The dust and diesel emissions situation may also be local, but again, all contributory aspects to the total equation are worthy of consideration. Political considerations are on the table regarding this as well, and it was obvious that previously more environmentally respectful legislation toward the large stands and the acreage was changed and regulations loosened. The situation concerns many and for good reason. This is not a hoax nor is it irresponsible posting. Cooling of larger trees that provide canopy cover for the earth below is more effectual than replanted areas of earth. As a cooling element in the balance of tropospheric and ground level heat considerations, keeping more tall forests in relation to regrowth forests is valuable. Even considering urban heat situations, many are offering solutions to counteract that local condition with the planting of trees and plants in vacant lots, rooftops, sidewalk areas, and as many areas as possible.

As small in terms of global repurcussions a local system may seem, they all add up.

No hoax here. The white D knight has no battle with this one and if he thinks so, he is tilting at windmills. ;)

halva

03-07-2005, 07:51 PM

It should be noted that the clouds induced by jet planes are not natural cirrus clouds, and are very very much thicker and dense water laden clouds that form ice and begin to fall to seed more dense clouds.

There are naturally made cirris clouds and man-made heavy thick clouds that are made at the same levels of natural cirrus clouds.

The man-made clouds make for large particle sizes that not only reflect visible light, but also longer IR wavelength "light" connected to global warming.

Is it true that "pollution" produces smaller droplets and that smaller droplets reflect more light, as is asserted in the BBC video?

Also, could the presence of sulphates increase the reflective qualities of clouds (this is called 'albedo', no??) or would there need to be metallic particles?

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 07:57 PM

In the United States, the foundations for the domestic application of electromagnetic mind control weapons – euphemistically termed “non-lethal weapons - were laid with a 1994 interagency agreement on their use by domestic law enforcement agencies.

“From National Defense to the Justice Department

“On July 21, 1994, Dr. Christopher Lamb, Director of Policy Planning, issued a draft Department of Defense directive which would establish a policy for non-lethal weapons. The policy was intended to take effect January 1, 1995, and formally connected the military's non-lethal research to civilian law enforcement agencies.

“The government's plan to use pulsed electromagnetic and radio frequency systems as a non-lethal technology for domestic Justice Department use rings the alarm for some observers. Nevertheless, the plan for integrating these systems is moving forward. Coupling these uses with expanded military missions is even more disturbing. This combined mission raises additional constitutional questions for Americans regarding the power of the federal government.

“In interviews with members of the Defense Department the development of this policy was confirmed. In those February 1995, discussions, it was discovered that these policies were internal to agencies and were not subject to any public review process.

“In its draft form, the policy gives highest priority to development of those technologies most likely to get dual use, i.e. law enforcement and military applications. According to this document, non-lethal weapons are to be used on the government's domestic "adversaries". The definition of "adversary" has been significantly enlarged in the policy:

"’The term 'adversary' is used above in its broadest sense, including those who are not declared enemies but who are engaged in activities we wish to stop. This policy does not preclude legally authorized domestic use of the non-lethal weapons by United States military forces in support of law enforcement.’

“This allows use of the military in actions against the citizens of the country that they are supposed to protect. This policy statement begs the question; who are the enemies that are engaged in activities they wish to stop, what are those activities, and who will make the decisions to stop these activities?

“An important aspect of non-lethal weapon systems is that the name non-lethal is intentionally misleading. The Policy adds, ‘It is important that the public understand that just as lethal weapons do not achieve perfect lethality, neither will 'non-lethal' weapons always be capable of precluding fatalities and undesired collateral damage’. In other words, you might still destroy property and kill people with the use of these new weapons.

“In press statements, the government continues to downplay the risks associated with such systems, even though the lethal potential is described in context of their own usage policy. In Orwellian double speak, what is non-lethal can be lethal.”

______________________________________

Well, one such weapon was on standbye in New York during the last big war protest. I saw pictures of it and it was a sonic device of some kind. Like I said, this is an older article written by Canadians.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-07-2005, 08:10 PM

BC writes:

As small in terms of global repurcussions a local system may seem, they all add up.

No hoax here. The white D knight has no battle with this one and if he thinks so, he is tilting at windmills.

==========

It adds up about like a drop of water in an entire ocean.

Which makes it nonsense. Lighting strikes and forest fires dominate land base trees, and proper land management says thin the forests with proper management criteria. Especially, if they are pine trees of some sort.

The increase in CO-2 is much worse from not trimming them and managing them, than cutting them in managed programs that long term conserve forest areas.

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 08:20 PM

It should be noted that the clouds induced by jet planes are not natural cirrus clouds, and are very very much thicker and dense water laden clouds that form ice and begin to fall to seed more dense clouds.

There are naturally made cirris clouds and man-made heavy thick clouds that are made at the same levels of natural cirrus clouds.

The man-made clouds make for large particle sizes that not only reflect visible light, but also longer IR wavelength "light" connected to global warming.

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309095069/html/24.html#pagetop

From the BASC.

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309095069/html/25.html#pagetop

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 08:26 PM

For Halva on black carbon particulates (BC) and global dimming:

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309095069/html/29.html#pagetop

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 08:31 PM

continued for Halva:

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309095069/html/30.html#pagetop

BASC: Board on Atmospheric Sciences and Climate:

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 08:35 PM

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 08:42 PM

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 08:47 PM

Boomer Chick

03-07-2005, 08:56 PM

Land use continued: (note: the pages cannot be highlighted and can only be copied as an image text. I found it important to post the various pages and find the information. The book itself is quite extensive. If you keep it on you rfavorites, you can refer to it later and it offers a search feature as well.

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309095069/html/35.html#pagetop

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309095069/html/36.html#pagetop

hoot

03-08-2005, 03:42 AM

Back on the carbon cycle, bc? I thought you promised to go haarping off in another direction. Lets talk again, about the flea on the tail of the dog. The amount of Carbon in the atmosphere 0.2 inches, average Carbon on the land surface 2 inches, Carbon in the ocean 20 feet.. The big question here bc, is: "Who wags who?" Gee, if you got into the manganese "cycle", or the barium "cycle" or even back into the aluminum "cycle" in the atmosphere; I might get interested in following down one of your pastee rabid rabit holes./////As far as your haarping goes; it does seem as though they have finally got that showpony diversion working at last. Good signal in the 7.02-7.04 MHz range, mostly teletex like com at night, have heard some weather blasts durring the day. Nothing like the good olde WOODPECKER system of 30 transmitters though, that has been pecking along warming things up globally since it was turned on on 7/4/76. Still putting out the 1.2 BILLION watts of juice, soviet "fall" be damned, at 5.415 MHz[with the weather blasts at 5.440]. You just gotta love those "olde" stations that just keep pecking away. Ta Ta All! hoot

Insurrectionchemistry

03-08-2005, 07:41 AM

Hi Hoot,

Interesting observations there. BC's recent presence here has certainly become less than constructive for intelligent discussions, more like destructive.

She misses the obvious, like forest management lesses the black particles in the atmosphere and lowers CO2, because management lessens the forest fires. She can't seem to see the forest for the tree, most of the time. A constant pattern of upside down logic flows from her "rabbit hole."

She is becoming the willing right arm of the School of the America's styled tactical Delta team here that is triple teaming the Forum here with hoax and false information. She was easily recruited into their sinister game plans. A few little strokes from the Delta team's members toward her ego, and boom, a new agent of evil.

Their game plan seeks to conceal how the chemtrails connect with volcanic sciences on global warming. How we found case examples in the biblical texts that supported much clearer insights into the bible narratives, and the climate change that set up the proof for Exodus. We found that things were not as advertised in that religion and what most see is as upside down as BC's logic on this forum.

BC is one of those of the primitive pattern. It is difficult to truthfully communicate with people on that level, as they buy into every hoax and illogical thing that comes in front of them.

Oftentimes, Persons like that literally end up representing satan, rather than God.

jayreynolds

03-08-2005, 09:43 AM

Often delusional thinking which overtakes the personality, the break from reality, signals true mental disorder.

Anyone reading this thread and following one of the posters will suspect either of these two kinds of thinking (fantasy -- delusional) or both in the statements and relative support for those statements. Along with this apparent and very obvious trend flows the poster's libidinal propensity to "project." And severe forms of judgmentalism and intrenched inflexibility color the rest of this poster's personality as revealed through his posts.

I only referenced Jung as a modern psychological thinker, not the run of the mill psychiatrist. Many may disagree with his interpretations but for those reading, the information is given.

BC :rolleyes:

I have gone back and looked over some of jimbo's old postings from years ago at other message boards. His fixation then was with flourides, but coincident with his adoption of chemtrails, the delusional/fantasy stuff began. It's been downhill ever since.

jayreynolds

03-08-2005, 09:50 AM

How plausible is it that clouds would become more reflective just from being "polluted"??

Is it true that clouds in "polluted" air contain smaller droplets than clouds in unpolluted air?

Would the presence of sulfates produce this reflective effect?

When in doubt, go to the source:
http://www-c4.ucsd.edu/c4publications/indoex_publication.html

Boomer Chick

03-08-2005, 09:57 AM

Good Day!

Well, I did get sidetracked last night. It was because of Halva's question and I was also frustrated that he hadn't read all the previous information on it and ignorantly asked questions that he should have already known. So I decided to give him the information and like a wild woman.... imaged much of it for his benefit and knowledge.

Yaak, yes you are right and about thinning the forests you are also right! But as I've witnessed in the past from logging companies in Northern California, many say they're only thinning and then they literally strip log and only leave one tree here and there with hundreds of feet between them and their replanting means a tiny seedling every fifty feet. The reality often is not what most of us would expect when they promise to THIN. My husband and I THIN our forest, but we don't log the whole five acres and just leave three trees standing. There's a difference.

I support those in California who want to restrict the laws regarding acreage of logging and their insistance on preserving the older stands of Sequoias.... that's my position and I truly don't care what any of you think regarding it. It's a matter of opinion at this point. The science in terms of land use was supported in my posting of the pages and links and it does play into the atmospheric scenario. I support thinning, and I support replanting, and I support logging other tree varieties more than I support the logging of Redwoods in general. Period... end of story.

Now back to HAARP.

Halva, I expect a thank you from you regarding my efforts to give you information.

BC

Boomer Chick

03-08-2005, 10:47 AM

3. Threads whose purpose is to attack another poster are not permitted. That would include "Polls" whose obvious intent is an attack.
4. It is fine to attack another poster's point of view but posts whose purpose is to personally attack another poster or their family are not permitted.
5. Flagrantly breaking the rules or repeatedly breaking the rules will result in the poster being referred to Robb or Noah for temporary or permanent banning depending on the nature of the infraction.

In all cases the mods will be the sole judges whether there has been an infraction of the rules and what action to take. They will not defend or debate their decisions. The actions they take may range from editing or deleting a post, locking or deleting a thread, or moving it, all at their sole discretion. The mods may or may not give notice in PMs or in threads of any of their actions.

____________________________

I've reported the offending poster many times. And today I e-mailed Mike directly.

BC

Boomer Chick

03-08-2005, 10:51 AM

I have gone back and looked over some of jimbo's old postings from years ago at other message boards. His fixation then was with flourides, but coincident with his adoption of chemtrails, the delusional/fantasy stuff began. It's been downhill ever since.

If the mods are true to their word, he will be held accountable, not for his delusions, but for his flaming and personal attacks.

halva

03-08-2005, 10:52 AM

Halva, I expect a thank you from you regarding my efforts to give you information.
BC

You have my thank you, BC.

Don't get frustrated with me. I am following my own time-schedule, which is based in the first place on needs in my real-world environment here, not on the need to compete in knowledgeability on these threads.

The only thing I have been fighting against is Raynolds' demagogy, insincerity and fear-mongering.

If he makes an attempt to overcome these vices, and sets an example for Jim Phelps to overcome HIS own specific vices, then who knows, we could even become a team.

This will doubtless seem disgustingly sentimental to Jim Phelps, but that is his problem.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-08-2005, 10:52 AM

Halva is likely more able to look on the internet and come up with relevant data than you. In fact, I think everyone here can do web searches. Perhaps no one read these seemingly endless copy and pastes cause it is too much and too disconnected from the simple learning pathways.

Some of this information is pretty complicated and there are easy ways to present it logically and there are infinitely many ways to present it incomprehinsively. BC always choses the latter and lowers the level of intelligibility.

Which is why the level of learning is usually upside down from the realities. Case in point tree cutting raising CO2 problem. And there are dozens of other too numerous to recount.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-08-2005, 10:58 AM

halva

03-08-2005, 11:16 AM

Halva is having some more spells, where logic alludes him, or some new polical scam is beginning. Reynolds and company have one goal, which is sell the Bush GOP line.

Halva's lastest real dumb idea is to suggest BC and Reynolds be allowed back on CTC. Really dumb idea.

One that tends to tell me Halva is up to no good again.

If you read more attentively you would have noticed that I told Thermit (who hasn't as yet replied, by the way) that any such move should not go ahead in the absence of consensus here, which means that we have to take your opinion into account also.

Unless you get thrown off, of course, but I am not recommending that.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-08-2005, 03:01 PM

The problem is that you would even entertain such an idea in the first place, let alone write Thermit. Outrgeous. If I were Thermit I would not write back either, or send you a terse note on dumb ideas.

It is your typical manipulation of people tactics that always get you into trouble. Political games is about all we see. You admittedly can't do the science or logic to get to the reasons, so you run around attempting making bigger messes. The best thing you could ever do is sit down and focus and learn some science and processes, and as long as you don't do that your ineffectual forever.

If the CTC folks want to talk to JR or sidekick BC, they know exactly where to find them.

CTC appears to have run them off for good reasons, like their having little agendas that attempt to run over others. We have all seen Reynolds in action here with his teamates and it is very obvious he will attempt the same sort of games on CTC or anywhere he goes. Even trying the new games with team mate BC.

You tend to do the bottoms up approach to everything---starting at the bottom only gets one a billion plus bits of information on multiple levels to sort out for the pathway to the top solution. It is guaranteed to fail.

You will never get anywhere at this rate.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-08-2005, 05:33 PM

So, back to the science of volcanoes and their atmospheric effects that are used for understanding climate change. Some concepts that are important to consider for the determinations of how to think about some of these effects, and they later add in the chemtrails and cloud making effects.

1. Introduced is the concept that volcano emissions set up the atmosphere on this planet, and thus make the first topic of study to judge what man-made offsets do to the climate equation.

2. Introduced was the concept that a volcano called Mt. Ararat influenced the Euphrates region of the Garden of Eden, due to its climate change influence. Similarly, it was inroduced that the volcanic region of Mt. Sinai set up a similar process that put down rainfalls in the area to promote the land-bridge for Exodus, and these similat climate change effects set up the rainfall patterns that allowed this regions to feed all these many people.

3. Introduced that metals from volcanoes participate in cloud making due to hygroscopic effects and similarly that acids like HF and HCl are hygroscopic gases that contribute also.

4. Introduced that volcanoes have some interesting things to learn from the chemical reactions and that gold is one of the very special effects. Gold tends to be very non-reactive and tends not to form any compounds that would keep it suspended in air. So, it rans out with other insoluble compounds. Vocanic emissions around the Midian area are known for the number of gold mines that they produced as they contributed to what would become a major artifact of religion.

5. Introduced that volcanoes are important on multiple vectors of consideration. Volcanoes set up the atmosphere. They made the bulk of the weather that eroded the planet for millenea. They set up the trace metals presence in the soils that lead to plant and animal evolution. They also, due to the very special property of gold, set up gold mining and supported the religion of Moses.

6. Introduced the knowledge that volcanoes emit all kinds of acids and there is a particular one called HF that is well known for its kill factor from volcanic run off. It works by complexing with varied metals in the body and causes either illnesses or death. Fluorides are well known pesticides that act on the metals balance in cells to produce their lethal effects. Fluorides kill by forming unique combinations with metals, which interfere with cellular G-protein systems.

7. That chemtrails seeks to control global warming by cloud making methods just like the ones that mother nature causes from volcanic releases. One can seek to change climatic outcomes in the same way that mother nature set up the Garden of Eden and the area around Mt. Sinai. These areas are vastly different todays from those times when the volcanic patterns were different.

8. Introduced that some of the metals fallout from volcanic emissions, particularly the vaporized gold and metal sulfides that settle to the ground around these emissions can be used to alter the toxic effects of fluorides and these methods have been known since the times of the Egyptians and Moses.

9. Introduced that what these old religion stories are about has been about volcanic emissions that set up a real mother nature effect of those times that Moses wanted to call god. That Moses and the people that lived around the Midian area gathered these air precipitates from the volcanic emissions and used them for better health. These metals offset the toxic effects of fluoride on the body. This was called Manna. These same effects can be seen today in the plants grown from volcanic soils rich in metals content.

10. The concepts for colloidal gold are based on these old concepts for manna, and they are high moble in the body and get to areas to complex with fluoride and render it less harmful to human health. Fluoride is a lifelong cumulative effect, and these ancient persons learned ways to manage these effects. In the case of chemtrails, gold colloid was too expensive to use, so a similar effect using titanium was sought.

And the top down knowledge that begins with these 10 issues is what is the shortest and most sensible pathway to understand both climate change and chemtrails and have some rather common sense and impressive examples from mother nature.

The chemtrails to volcano associations connect with some problems of deception in the Jewish religion, and this sets up the principle reason such common sense and simple associations are kept hidden from the public at large.

These are the exact associations that became the invention for chemtails at Oak Ridge National Lab in the mid 1980s. The bible itself contributed to the interest in getting the associations into something to modify the climate, except by man in place of mother nature.

So, in the vein of this threads topic about "Its not nice to fool with mother nature," the ways of mother nature and man can be presented in a nice beginners package.

And in the process of such frank discussions that show the simplicity of what is going on the thread on Arianna's gets a highly positive boost in logic and shows Arianna's insights for these effects have been aptly put. So, we are staying within the context of supporting the threads thesis and Arianna's observation.

Nice ah...

Seemingly, there are a number of persons around here that don't want persons to see such support for Arianna's assertion and who would act in a highly destructive fashion to keep that level of logical support for Arianna becoming widely accepted.

There are a number of persons here that consistently go in the direct opposite directions of these well established effect, who very obviously like to cause problems in varied fashions and degrees. Most of them shown to be devisive and destructive in intention.

jayreynolds

03-08-2005, 05:42 PM

Dear Moderators .
Gosh, Jimbo, when you start to address the moderators, all of a sudden
the "most important" thing isn't 'the Jewish problem". In fact, you don't speak of it at all.
Why is that, old bean?

Insurrectionchemistry

03-08-2005, 06:06 PM

It would appear to me that all ten of the points above directly speak to the Jewish issues of not telling the truth on the full story of Moses and the beginning of the Jewish Old Testament. And this being one of the principle reasons the chemtrails issues are covered up.

Jay Reynolds here was the first to get out my real name here, as it was not listed on this Forum. Jay Reynods uses his real name here, which is not a problem, others don't and don't wish that to be so.

As one can clearly see, the "Jimbo" term is intended to be a constantly offensive reference----in addition to his ignorning being told repeatly to use the "IS" nickname here. His several associates use these and more offensiveand often malicious terms consistently.

One can see the pattern of Jay Reynolds is one of constant personal attacks and even to the point of stating the absolute untruth in his statements as the above to set up destructive type problems for the list.

It is my opinion that persons like Jay Reynolds has been in need of extensive moderator controls from the very beginning of this thread. In consideration that his mission appears to be to stalk all chemtrail and climate change activists and cast dispersons and misinformation agains them.

Jay Reynolds has made statements about sticking a knife in chemmies veins and draining out their blood, and to the point of saying to decapitate chemmies. Again, the demeaning terms with threats that portray violence and death. These are not the words of a person intent on logical discussions, but a person intent on destructive commentary to run people off. He and his ilk always conspire in these devisive and offensive methods.

With each and every words of hate coming from these individuals they not only attack those that support Arianna's public statements on these climate games, but Arianna's own assertions. How would Arianna feel if she were here and having these kinds of vile and vicious terms constantly tossed at her, and how long would she let that go on?

Perhaps we should ask Arianna for her input, since her assertion is being smeared.

Boomer Chick

03-08-2005, 07:21 PM

For anyone who's reading:

I've privately e-mailed Mike. Posts dedicated to criticizing other board members are not acceptable board behaviors.

Delusional thinking is not appreciate, but it slides under the board's rules.

Fantasy thinking is not appreciated, but it slides under the board's rules.

People change. People grow. People mellow.

Those who don't, stay entrenched in their own paranoid hells. The fear of death underlies forms of paranoid delusion regarding doom and gloom scenarios. The very kind of shadow thinking that Hitler entertained is the root of all evil in our world. That fear, unfounded and expanded, is REFLECTED and REPEATED in another form in ANYONE who believes that a huge group or race of people is out to takeover the world. A small group of elite would be more realistic. This hate, based in fear, the ultimate fear of death, and the shadow element of the group consciousness must be lit ! It must be lit from those who have the light. Every effort to stay aligned with one's inner God self of hope and light, of dedication to all the other values of freedom, justice, and truth will be rewarded in time.

Trust in your spiritual relationship with your God, the great Creator of all, and know that the only spirit you can grow is your own. You can help others, but it is ultimately up to them what choices they make through life.

As far as this board, it behooves anyone reading this to refrain from criticizing any other poster in a personal way. Delusions and fantasies that I commented upon are a criticism of the words posted. I don't know the poster of these words. If another poster flamed others in the past, I don't care. Now is now, and people change and grow....this is always a factor with personalities in life. As long as we're here, we have the chance to change ourselves and align our wills with God's will and with acceptable social norms.

I am continuing my private e-mails to the mods as long as the criticizing posts continue, and that includes complaining about posts that criticize Jay Reynolds.

BC

stuart_allsop

03-08-2005, 10:13 PM

For anyone who's reading:

I've privately e-mailed Mike. Posts dedicated to criticizing other board members are not acceptable board behaviors. That's not entirely true, Boomer. Mike says that as long as a critical post contains a veiled death threat, then it is back to being acceptable again. I think he and I have already proved that point adequately.

And once I did challenge him to tell us just what it takes for him to delete a post or ban a poster, and just how many posts he has deleted from this thread, or from any thread... but he quietly declined. I wonder why that is?

(In fact, he declined so quietly that nobody at all could hear him.)

halva

03-09-2005, 12:41 AM

The problem is that you would even entertain such an idea in the first place, let alone write Thermit. Outrgeous. If I were Thermit I would not write back either, or send you a terse note on dumb ideas.

When I was a member of the CTC Council I argued that anyone claiming to know, or implying by their attitude that they know, that aerosol spraying for climate mitigation or other purposes is not occurring, should be expelled from the forum, or not allowed on it in the first place.

This policy was narrowly rejected by the Council on the grounds of 'freedom of speech'.

The criteria that have been adopted at CTC for deciding whether or not someone is allowed to stay there derive from superficial aspects of manners: abstaining from personal abuse, flaming, aggressiveness, etc. There has been no protection against collective strategies typically deployed by debunkers and no protection against insidious, cunning, but superfically well-mannered debunkers. This is what made it such a miracle that Mojo and BC managed to get Letxa thrown off CTC.

But then BC also got thrown off because of the spontaneous triumphalism of her reaction to Letxa's departure. It was seen as a kind of retrospective 'flaming'.

It is therefore appropriate to attempt to bring Thermit back into a debate over what should be the criteria for inclusion in, and exclusion from, our discourse.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-09-2005, 12:49 AM

Dear Everyone,

It has been acknowledged that there is a behind the scenes strategy going on from some here on this list. It appears as a strategum to continue a pattern of very personal attacks on persons expressing their ideas. It fits a mold that is becoming more a national method to refute political opponents.

It seems one here has a problem that appears to be in need of a deeper look for the better edification of everyone. It sounds as if one should discern if the many complaints here have any validity or are the result of some other issues / agendas / personal shortcomings / religion bias.

It would appear the one complaigning does not follow the same criteria in complaints, because they are attacking the person, not their ideas. Else, I would not be hearing all these repeated attempts at the diagnoses approach toward me personally, and not toward the ideas expressed. That speaks to a very direct personal attack on the person, and not just the ideas presented.

It shows up as personal slurs directed at the person as being delusional, fantasy thinking, and irrational fears. These are direct violations of the rules for this list, because this stuff is a personal attack on the person, not the ideas.

Would not the crooked politicians of the world be given a free ticket, if they could decry all that disagree with their agendas as being delusional, fanstasy types, or having irrational fears. Do we hear this sort of theme showing up here? Isn't what is going on here just the same as the US politics that seek to declair those that disagree with their agendas as crazy?

Free speech is not served by declairing any idea that does not fit ones own mold, as being delusional, fanstasy, or irrational fear of death. It is an outright attack on the person.

Perhaps it would be good for the one complaigning to explain why they were booted off the CTC Forum, as they obviously did not appreciate something someone was doing. CTC is a chemtrails and global warming discussion list, as per this thread here.

What behaviour were you doing on CTC?

It appears very obvious to readers here that some are old time buddies from days on CTC. Were the two of you doing the same games there as here? Did CTC consider some a public nusiance? Did they look at destructive type hehaviour patterns?

Why are both you and those tossed off attempting to get back onto a list that decided they were better off without your contributions and considered unwelcome.

Some come to the list here with an extremely well established public reputation for turning discussions into a name calling and literally a hate based diatribe opinion forum. The tactics of some here to insult persons in order to run them off has been well established all over the Internet. A reputation literally preceeds them.

Now, we see more of the same---attacking the person personally---assigning labels to those that don't agree with their agendas. Terms like fantasy thinking, irrational fears, delusional all being bandied about and tossed as personal attacks on the person.

Many of these folks can't win their public agenda's on the merits of the facts, so the principle tactics are to personally attack persons that speak to the truth. In fact, some passers by here periodically impugn those persons here for berating them in the past. Some are infamous here for attacking women, except when they serve other purposes.

Some appear to condone and support all these activities of personally attacking the person in addition to the ideas and seemingly has become a chip off the old block.

So, explain to everyone here why, in your own words, that you were kicked off CTC and why others were kicked off CTC. And be honest because if your not, window dressings will show. We know the folks at CTC and shall inquire of their opinion for their not being accepting of your actions and those of your hate based malicious side kicks here.

Tell everyone here why you condone the constant personal attack games from the public figure who stalks all the lists for chemtrials and global warming activists on the Internet and has been banned from most all except the occasional one here at Arianna's.

Then why you appear to be doing the same games here of attacking the person, in additon to their ideas and opinions.

Terms like delusional, fantasy and irrational fear are attacks on the person. It is a method of personal attack on the person to seek a political advantage that can't be had based upon presentation of the facts and logic.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-09-2005, 01:34 AM

Halva writes:

"But then BC also got thrown off because of the spontaneous triumphalism of her reaction to Letxa's departure. It was seen as a kind of retrospective 'flaming'."

===========

Well that sort of thing certainly fits the attack mode toward me here.

It appears someone gains personal satisfaction by attacking others with the objective of getting them tossed off the list, then gets caught in the process of being overboard.

That certainly appears to fit what is happening here. It appears a pattern. And one where they have been caught doing before.

It appears the typical GOP oriented political games of attempting to personally attack the persons that don't follow their agendas by proclaiming them as delusional persons, fantasy persons, and having irrational fears. Sounds just like the Repubican games to overcome those that don't accept their propaganda line.

Except this time, those games happen here on Arianna's list to personally attack those seeking free speech.

It appears even the old Hitler line is being used and the logic there being distorted from what has been said. There is even the issue of religion bias against those that don't happen to agree with the person's complaigining perspective.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-09-2005, 01:44 AM

BC writes:

"Posts dedicated to criticizing other board members are not acceptable board behaviors. "

====

Then goes on to directly criticise other board member here:

"Those who don't, stay entrenched in their own paranoid hells. The fear of death underlies forms of paranoid delusion regarding doom and gloom scenarios. The very kind of shadow thinking that Hitler entertained is the root of all evil in our world. That fear, unfounded and expanded, is REFLECTED and REPEATED in another form in ANYONE who believes that a huge group or race of people is out to takeover the world. A small group of elite would be more realistic. This hate, based in fear, the ultimate fear of death, and the shadow element of the group consciousness must be lit ! It must be lit from those who have the light. Every effort to stay aligned with one's inner God self of hope and light, of dedication to all the other values of freedom, justice, and truth will be rewarded in time. "

=======

It sure appears that someone violated the list rules by delivering a personal attack on the person. And the opinions originally stated were not truthfully represented in rephrasing.

I see religious discrimination and person issuing flames on that theme.

It is a game just like the GOP is attempting to deflect criticism.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-09-2005, 02:50 AM

Most of us hold politicians accountable for trying their games of attemping to dismiss those who present issues counter to their agendas as some kind of crazies.

Should the same sort of personal attack games on the person the GOP types use be allowed?

Terms like "delusional thinking" is a personal attack on the person and is an attempt to interfere with their free speech.

Terms like "fantasy thinking" is a personal attack on the person and is an attempt to interfere with their free speech.

Terms like "paranoid" is a personal attack on the person and an attempt to interfere with their free speech.

All these type personal attacks appear to coming in part from a large dose of religious discrimination for the problems in religion being openly presented on this forum.

These all appear to be very personal attacks on the person, not simple criticism of their information or the data that supports their thesis positions.

==================
BC writes:

""For anyone who's reading:

I've privately e-mailed Mike. Posts dedicated to criticizing other board members are not acceptable board behaviors.

Delusional thinking is not appreciate, but it slides under the board's rules.

Fantasy thinking is not appreciated, but it slides under the board's rules.

People change. People grow. People mellow.

Those who don't, stay entrenched in their own paranoid hells. The fear of death underlies forms of paranoid delusion regarding doom and gloom scenarios. The very kind of shadow thinking that Hitler entertained is the root of all evil in our world. That fear, unfounded and expanded, is REFLECTED and REPEATED in another form in ANYONE who believes that a huge group or race of people is out to takeover the world. A small group of elite would be more realistic. This hate, based in fear, the ultimate fear of death, and the shadow element of the group consciousness must be lit ! It must be lit from those who have the light. Every effort to stay aligned with one's inner God self of hope and light, of dedication to all the other values of freedom, justice, and truth will be rewarded in time.

Trust in your spiritual relationship with your God, the great Creator of all, and know that the only spirit you can grow is your own. You can help others, but it is ultimately up to them what choices they make through life.

As far as this board, it behooves anyone reading this to refrain from criticizing any other poster in a personal way. Delusions and fantasies that I commented upon are a criticism of the words posted. I don't know the poster of these words. If another poster flamed others in the past, I don't care. Now is now, and people change and grow....this is always a factor with personalities in life. As long as we're here, we have the chance to change ourselves and align our wills with God's will and with acceptable social norms.

I am continuing my private e-mails to the mods as long as the criticizing posts continue, and that includes complaining about posts that criticize Jay Reynolds.

BC ""

Insurrectionchemistry

03-09-2005, 03:10 AM

Jay Reynolds writes:

"Gosh, Jimbo, when you start to address the moderators, all of a sudden
the "most important" thing isn't 'the Jewish problem". In fact, you don't speak of it at all.
Why is that, old bean?"

=========

And do we see that someone is attempting to use the Hitler and Jewish religion related issues as a afront to free speech? As a discrimination basis toward selling personal attacks toward me speaking out on discoveries.

Someone has been trying to play up those issues for some time now, to get an apparent attachment to someone on Arianna's staff that listed some Jewish linked issues previously.

It would appear independent objectivity is missing on some of this officially.

Interesting that lots of these personal attacks on me personally, are couched in this religious descrimination theme. All I do is present the facts on the religion theme as it associates with the volcanic issues of Mt. Sinai and how it was a huge gold mining area due to the heaviness of the gold to settle out under the lava emission of these type volcanic zones.

Then go on to how this influenced our design for chemtrails for climate change mediation using jet aircraft. It turned up many things that were not as advertised in religion. And this is the root of the chemtrials cover up needs.

And it appears the main thrust of the personal attacks on me for speaking openly of these findings and their associations. This line of information is the hard line, but easy to comprehind proof of chemtails and global warming sciences that many in the US can pick up easily. Some persons here with certain political and religion affilitions are despirate to stop the presentation of such information, to the point of launching these religion based personal attacks.

As demonstrated by these little bait games above, then ceased upon by someone else with the same personal attack religion agenda.

halva

03-09-2005, 03:13 AM

Insurrectionchemistry

03-09-2005, 03:24 AM

I have directly requested that you only use my nickname here. Why do we see you continue to do the opposite?

I don't know this person and was not a party to what was going on there. I usually don't get involved in those sorts of things, in well managed lists.

Here is seems to chase you around when you speak to the issues of how religion is connected to chemtrails and volcanic sciences on climate change. Even speaking to the realities of chemtrails existance gets one personally attacked in the extreme here. Presenting simple real associations appears to trigger personal attacks on persons like myself.

Presenting ideas gets one personally attacked here.

I am just interested in seeing how it perhaps relates to the mess here.

Still researching and asking questions.

stuart_allsop

03-09-2005, 03:59 AM

Terms like "delusional thinking" is a personal attack on the person and is an attempt to interfere with their free speech.

Terms like "fantasy thinking" is a personal attack on the person and is an attempt to interfere with their free speech.

Terms like "paranoid" is a personal attack on the person and an attempt to interfere with their free speech.
Unless those terms are actually undeniably applicable, as is the case with Jimbo Kid, in which case they are not attempts to interfer with free speech, but are simply the truth....

Insurrectionchemistry

03-09-2005, 04:15 AM

The pattern of personal attacks toward myself are becoming rather obvious, they are highly religion centered in origin.

I presented the simple associations of chemtrails being real and the religion histories that support much of that proof. The presentation of that type information and how it relates to the story of Moses, Noah, and such appears to be a terrible blow for those selling chemtrials are fanticies, or delusions of persons thinking there is more to the story.

In fact, we see the common theme in the personal attack words of choice.

When someone like myself clearly shows there is more to the story on chemtrails and in fact there is an entire science and timeline that supports these chemtrials climate remediation things happening, I get personally attacked for using those simple associations that show things are amiss in the religion world too.

These flames toward me personally are directly connected to my very simple presentation that chemtrails sciences is highly related to volcanic theory, and volcanic effects tide to climate change patterns that support the story of Moses and Noah.

That appears to be a real sore spot for all those trying to present the falsehoods on chemtrails not being real. It also is a sore spot to those who have their entrenched views on religion.

It is this high level of resistance toward the facts that Moses lived near Midian and Mt. Sinia is very near Midian. In fact that there is an entire volcanic range near Midian and this connected with gold mines and the fortunes of David / Solomon.

Not only does my simple and well supported thesis deliver some clear images that volcanoes cause dramatic climate changes in areas, but that jet planes can be used to induce very related effects. Not only does my simple and well supported thesis support climate change, it also supports a much more clear explanation of the bible's narratives.

It is these sort of highly damaging facts toward those that deny chemtrails that is the principle thrust of these personal attack escillation toward me for explaining these associations.

Clearly, I am being personally attacked for my views on religion and providing the connectivity to volcanoes and climate change. And it is being intensified by these recent installments that show up these association so clearly.

Such attacks go to show the true weaknesses for the false claims of the debunkers. The ideas being presented, if passed around widely, can and will distroy the false claims those who have been presenting these games of coverup.

The ultimate game now, has turned into the personal attack on the person, to the point of making claims of delusion, paranoid, and all manner of bogus claims and associations.

It is a clear personal attack to counter the proof of chemtrails being laid down on this Forum in a very public fashion, which the debunkers can't defeat any other way than go after the person personally.

This feels like a religious hate crime level of cover up. It is little different than burning a cross in my front yard, when my very person is asailed to this degree of flame.

jayreynolds

03-09-2005, 05:59 AM

Perhaps it would be good for the one complaigning to explain why they were booted off the CTC Forum, as they obviously did not appreciate something someone was doing. CTC is a chemtrails and global warming discussion list, as per this thread here.

What behaviour were you doing on CTC?.

For the record, I was never "booted off" the chemtrailcentral forum. I left of my own accord, but when I tried to again become a member, they would not readmit me, not because of anything I did there which broke the rules, but because of what I had said away from the forum!

There was a point in which I was briefly allowed re-access to a free-speech forum at CTC, but that forum was eventually deleted by Thermit after 'footsoldier' threatened to leave if I was allowed to continue asking about her involvement with the CIA/NSA trained people who originated the "chemtrails are barium" hoax. The forum known as "rumpus room" was subsequently deleted, and 'footsoldier' rmains a faithful member, despite her propagation of the "Chemtrails Over America" hoax.

Anybody disagrees, I've got proof.

halva

03-09-2005, 06:12 AM

Raynolds why should you, a patriot, object to something done by the intelligence services of your own country? Is it not their duty to protect American citizens such as yourself?

What I say here has no bearing on the content of your allegations against footsoldier.

It has to do with your methodology, which involves building chains of argument on assumptions stolen from others without acknowledgement.

It is your putative audience, not you, that would be prejudiced against someone on the basis of associations with the CIA.

So let them, not you, make the accusations deriving from such prejudices and such assumptions.

To do otherwise is to be manipulative, and dishonest.

This is my main charge against you.

Not anything you say about 'chemtrails', much of which is also said by others who appear to be genuinely concerned, for example, about anthropogenic climate change.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-09-2005, 06:40 AM

In an attempt to move off the issues of the persistent personal attacks toward myself to the point of becoming religious hate crimes, which are going to be formally addressed elsewhere, a move toward the proper discussion formats.

Presented were the 10 points that develop the science behind the chemtrails and global warming remediation logic. These points are part of the exact proof process from ORNL that lead to the invention and the processes being implemented. So, these 10 factors become part of the hard and undenyable proof for the existance of chemtrails design thinking and causation factors by a national lab in Tennessee.

The facts on volcanoes have been presented and the rather obvious historical effects from their influnces shown in interesting historical fashion.

Information from the USGS, old reports from travelers in the area, satellite photos, CIA photos and space shuttle photos have all been listed to support the thesis of the Mt. Sinai volcanic connected discussions. Even to the point of lifting the veils on the religion related problems that exposes.

The level of information is illrefutable with extreme detail to overcome the extreme denial and personal attack processes of this Forum's nay sayers on chemtrails existance. It is a process based upon facts, not fantasies, delusions, or fear of death.

Normally a Govt. would be quick to proclaim a process like chemtrails using jet planes are saving the planet from global warming, but the problem is once they admit these processes exist----more questions----the science comes out. The volcanic associated studies get into public view. The Mt. Sinai issues get into public view. The religion omission problems connected to these sciences get into the public view. And the US Govt is hiding these problems because of interesting crimially connected motivations.

One of the key issues is the HF, which is an extreme liability to much of American industry. The HF effects the jet plane rain outs also address could well upset the chemtrails use, because people will certainly object to their health being harmed by these processes of dumping acids and poisons around.

So, to avoid that from happening-----the Govt likes to pretend that chemtrails don't exist and they appear to have a few people around to harass those people that say they do exist and that there is a lot to the equation. When the information presented gets so very close to the heart of the problems, the intensity of the denails and attacks toward the presenter appear more extreme.

Those 10 points highly validate the chemtrails processes and their existance for an person capable of intelligent associations and logic. Following those guidelines explains the entire process, and are the keys to the whole existance of the projects.

Don't be distracted by the distraction games going on here-----follow those hints and there lies the bulk of the proof and science behind chemtrails.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-09-2005, 07:04 AM

Some more things to make connect.
There are two distinct volcano based models that related to chemtrails methods.

Chemtrails "Generation 1" methods use the hygroscopic materials, nano-particle metal oxides in particular, for the generation of hygroscopic compounds in the presence of acid air. These are the methods like around non-explosive type volcanic emissions in the Mt. Sinai range. This is the one like the Moses model that affected the climate to support the Exodus numbers in the region.

Chemtrails "Generation 2" methods are based on the detonation of ocean based volcanoes, like the big Krakatoa event in 540 something AD, that made the world dark for 40 days and nights from the injection process into the atmosphere. This one was a massive injection of water into the upper atmosphere. This one is like the Noah model of 40 days and nights of near constant rains and extreme global cooling, where Mt. Ararat was the location for the Ark and the volcano that exploded was in the Mediterranean. The Garden of Eden story was the direct effects of Mt. Ararat.

Chemtrails models come right from the volcanic sciences on seeding clouds and affecting global warming factors and climate change.

Pretty simple technology, which the discovery of the details on what made Moses stories so true, came to produce as an outcome. Chemtrails were the direct produce of seeing the factors that prove the story of Noah and Moses.

Some like those facts, and some panic from attemping to address those effects, as it rather turns upside down what they have been taught for so long. It was not all wrong, there is just more to the story than has been presended by many simple minded persons of religion for so long.

In Oak Ridge, Science and Religion collided----and the insights gained are both valuable to some and dangerous to others.

But these issues need to be exposed to offset some extremes of criminal linked problems from the abuse of these informations.

Mike

03-09-2005, 07:24 AM

Ladies and Gentlemen...

The title of this particular forum is "Arianna's Latest Column", in case you hadn't noticed recently. That would seem to indicate that the subject under discussion should be...ahem..."Arianna's Latest Column".

I was finally moved to visit a list called Chemtrail Central. I find it to be a quite legitimate "list", and evidently a place with whom many here have been previously associated. Some here have also evidently been booted from that list, and have found Arianna's to be a friendly enough place to "park" their continued battles with one-another. Those battles have the unfortunate side issue of attempting to draw "moderation" onto one side or the other of the continuous (seemingly endless) skirmishes. I've found a number of unflattering references to moi in that regard :lol:

Lib and I have had discussions recently about the future of this particular thread. It clearly doesn't belong in this forum. One poster here has snidely made reference to "well administered" lists, and to that I'd answer...he may be right...if it was well administered a major number of you would be gone, and the entire thread removed post haste. Those actions -- taken by administration of Chemtrial Central -- may be the reason some of you are here.

To the bottom line, ladies and gentlemen...
If you want this thread to have a continued life, knock off the bs, discuss the topic of the thread, and quit trying to bait moderators. Patience is running a little thin here, believe it...

Mike

03-09-2005, 09:59 AM

The topic of the forum, madam...if you please.

halva

03-09-2005, 10:39 AM

Thank you for your intervention, Mike.

Can I proudly point out to you, as someone who believes in fighting my own battles, that I have not bothered you even once.

Also, I do not demand that anyone, even Jay Reynolds, be removed from this thread.

And congratulations to Arianna for having found at 'latest column' that has generated so much focused discussion, most of it relevant to the subject matter of her column of a year ago on "Fooling with Mother Nature" (i.e. the Pentagon report on Climate Change).

By the way, after all this time, haven't we earned the privilege of ONE itty-bitty posting from Arianna here, by way of greeting and encouragement?

Boomer Chick

03-10-2005, 09:13 AM

It's Not Nice to Fool Mother Nature

Under this heading the discussion of "fooling" with Mother Nature resumes.

DO UNKNOWN or KNOWN entities purposefully or inadvertantly balance nature, unbalance nature, control nature, negatively affect nature?? --- nature being the biologic, geologic, atmospheric, and oceanic systems, which synergistically interact with eachother as well as responding to and interacting with the larger systems: near space, the solar and galactic systems including their various space bodies and energies.

HOW, besides the obvious mandmade gases through commerce and industry globally and locally, do UNKNOWN or KNOWN entities control, impinge, mitigate, or otherwise "FOOL" with our planetary systems? And can you PROVE that these interventions or consequences (indirectly or directly) EXIST? Are they harmful? Are they helpful?

Theory:

Manmade gases and particulates through commerce and industry have affected the climate and the ozone layer creating pollutants that contribute to ozone depletion and overall warming trends.

Status: Proven (most scientists agree worldwide) ] However, the larger solar and galactic energies and cycles may also play a role.

Theory:

Cloud seeding and other attempts to reduce and encourage cloud formation and precipitation exist, state level, private, nationally, internationally.

Status: Proven and can be further explored.

Theory:

A purposeful program of spraying particulates (either chemical or metallic) is ongoing here and in other countries. It is being carried out through military and commerical airliner jet fuels and/or spray nozzles. Various reasons include: filtering UV rays, reflecting the sun's light heat, promoting a suspended particulate field for communications purposes and propagation of low frequency waves.

Status: Unproven Worthy of continued research and proponents say that all information regarding said programs is top secret and unavailable. The only way to prove such programs is to find evidence and prove it.

Theory:

Contrails from normal aviation activities contribute to radiative forcing in the atmosphere, contributing to cirrus cloud production that tends to prevent land mass cooling through its particulate composition lingering through the PM hours. If this is not controlled it will only contribute to increased land mass heating. Oceanic interaction has yet to be proven. Aviation emissions contribute carbon and NOx as well as other byproducts that add to the overall mixing of greenhouse gases in the middle and upper atmospheric layers.

Status: Proven and ongoing research focuses on the percentage of and the identification of particulate and gas components interacting with the atmosphere at various levels. Worthy of further research and certainly open for innovations in engines and the after burner type of filters in order to mitigate emissions.

Theory:

HAARP and related array experimentation threatens the integrity of natural planetary systems and is used in weather manipulation, as well as geological stimulation of earthquakes.

Status: Unproven (well worth investigating)

Theory:

Other climate mitigation programs and manmade balances are in the works, beginning to be implemented. Such projects include carbon sinks, ocean water particulate stimulation, urban greening, and other technologies.

Status: Ongoing innovation and invention based on conclusions derived from data gathering and will be provable to readers through R and D of various private, government, and state sponsored programs as well as press releases regarding such programs.

FEEL FREE TO STATE YOUR THEORIES !!!! THESE ARE JUST ONES THAT I THOUGHT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO REFOCUS OUR ENERGIES.

Please discuss the political, historic, and religious factors and theories on another thread. You can title the thread what you wish and move your conversation over there. It may relate, but for purposes of more objective discussion and research, all such SIDE conversations can be carried on somewhere else. Those who wish to engage in such topics, CAN, but just not here. Is that OK with everyone? This type of conversation, afterall, is OFF TOPIC.

Other related impinging technologies: Space based weaponry of the non-HAARP variety; chemical manipulation of oceanic and atmospheric areas, chemical manipulation of ozone areas, electromagnetic and other technologies impinging on local and earth's magnetic systems either purposefully or in consequence, nuclear energy and explosive effects ......

Carry on brothers and sisters!!! Please disagree or agree with anything posted here.

DON'T FOOL WITH MOTHER NATURE !!!! OR HELP HER IF YOU CAN !!!

:D

Mike

03-10-2005, 09:42 AM

I believe it better serves this threads history to note that several listings mysteriously disappeared from this thread without explanation.
Insurrection, that one's going to vanish just as mysteriously. If you think I'm kidding about restricting your conversations to the topic at hand, think again.

Mike

03-10-2005, 09:47 AM

I can always put a hard copy letter in the mail to the attention of the CEO of Arianna's Company, if the request does not materialize.Why don't you do that?

The next "off topic" post here -- from you -- will be your last for a while.

Insurrectionchemistry

03-10-2005, 10:04 AM

Getting into the mother nature's effects on the weather and humankind's modifications thereof.

The thesis of how volcanoes alter weather came to me in my many visits to volcanoes and sitting on top of them and watching how their emissions and effects alter the climate. One can notice that around volcanoes their effects often make one side a desert and the other a rain forest.

I suppose this is the same sort of observations that Moses would have made when he was banished to Midia. Here he appears to have climbed the highest peak in the area that overlooked a huge volcanic zone.

I just happened to make the same kind of observations as ole Moses. Then persons like the fella from Tennessee called my attention to the land bridge area of the Gulf of Aqaba crossing.

Then all things fell into place rapidly. Those simple sorts of ideas and their associations were quickly accepted as being totally valid associations at the highest levels of Oak Ridge National Laboratory and the highest levels of US national security operations. My legend in closed circles became a reality then and there.

This also set off the thinking on how to change the HF problems that I had uncovered from the emissions of HF from the Oak RIdge Gas Diffusion Plant. The parallels with how volcanoes HF emissions came into those studies.

And the ideas of precipitate methods came logically into view. One way was the metals emissions and the localized climate change around lesser volcanic effects like Mt. Sinai and the larger effect were to use the massive water injection effects from an even like Krackatoa.

So, it was these very simplest of associations that lead to the invention and use of chemtrail methods to set up climate change using the dialy and wide spead emissions from jet planes.

Places like Oak Ridge National Laborary had no problems with using the examples of these volcano bible connected histories as prime case examples that the methods would work and that mother nature was a living example and past history that the same chemical mechanims did some rather wonderous things.

Now, it would appear that the entire US Govt had not problem with using these bible perspectives in the proof of the climate change patterns observed from volcanoe effects and they had not problems in using that knowledge to support the threories of climate change inducement using jet emissions for like purpose.

So, these mother nature and science meeting provided an epiphany of sorts to the entire secretive national security world from ORNL to the Pentagon.

And, all that fits in the criteria for the discussion on this threads thesis.

In fact, it stands as the proof of the science for chemtrails, the science of climate change, and just how easily that jet plane emissions can be tailored to support man's mimicing of mother nature for solutions of difficult problems.

I propose that it is material of such importance that persons like Mike should be readily willing to share it with Arianna, so that she too can become more effective towards supporting the very same thesis. That in fact, Arianna and I share a common theme. That in fact, persons like Halva's suggestion / request should be considered entirely reasonable.

Mike

03-10-2005, 10:09 AM

Boomer Chick

03-10-2005, 10:34 AM

Regarding HAARP: Just some gathered historic commentaries:

“Demonstrating the grave danger to this planet's geomagnetic stability, the
1987 Eastlund patent (which is the basic design for the HAARP project)
stated that "The Earth's magnetic field could be decreased or disrupted at
appropriate altitudes to modify or eliminate the magnetic field."

I'm sure most of you have read the various patents. This is not to say that what Eastlund said on his patent requisition has indeed been implemented. This must also be confirmed, but many do know that 1)experiments with the ionesphere are ongoing and this has been verified 2) the earth's magnetic field interference or manipulation needs to be verified.

“March 1988 OMNI Magazine carried an article about Dr.
Eastlund’s invention: “As he did his computations, Eastlund realized
that the amount of energy he was dealing with was enormous. He
calculated that by lifting parts of the atmosphere the charged particles
could reflect sunlight, heat parts of the Earth and manipulate local
weather patterns. Richard Williams, a physicist at Princeton, stated
that he thinks the Eastlund HAARP device “might become a serious
threat to the Earth’s atmosphere and could cause irreversible damage.
Effects in the atmosphere cannot be localized. The language of the
patent indicates that it is clearly intended to provide effects on a global
scale.”

Obviously scientists in the past were concerned with the energies and systems that could be affected.

“June 1981 P.A.C.E. NEWSLETTER reported that Dr.
Ralph Markson of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology,
"Suggests that if a atmospheric variations do affect the weather, the
appropriate use of ELF and VLF radio waves might do the same
trick." "It is known the VLF radio waves such as those induced by
lightning can destabilize plasma in the magnetosphere. Experiments
to cause such effects have been conducted from the space shuttle."

I've recently investigated plasma physics experiments and at UCLA, they are ongoing. Tying them into the phased array systems is the hard part. Searches on "phased arrays" and "plasma physcis" result in definate experiments, but from a non-scientist interpretation, the dot-connecting to geo-engineering is rather difficult.

“November 1988 Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists reported
that GWEN involves a network of 299 foot high towers that “uses
low frequency radio waves that hug the ground.”

“September 12, 1989 The Washington Post reported that
during 1989, World Bank President Barber Conable made a speech in
Tokyo at a conference on: “Global Environment” in which he
revealed the long range goals of the international bankers. He said that
“while higher temperatures may cause a number of disasters they
might also warm cold and unproductive lands in the North into
productivity.” This candid admission described the real reason that
the Soviets and the New World Order bankers have secretly
promoted continuous weather engineering over the Northern
hemisphere since the early 1970’s.

I wouldn't doubt the bankers have had a role to play in the possible global climate mitigation and control operations. Afterall, funding of the scientists has to come from somewhere. Tax payer bases are not the only funding channels.

June 1990 Progressive Magazine reported that each GWEN
tower will have “a hundred copper wires, each 330 feet long, that will
fan out from the tower a foot underground...The major environmental
issue is Electromagnetic radiation...GWEN towers emit ionizing
radiation, and they do so all of the time, with test signals broadcast
every hour.”

Some applications of electromagnetic (EM) weapons unleash an electromagnetic pulse blast (looking like a fireball) which can level a town or city. Electromagnetic pulse researcher by Harry Mason, B.Sc., M.Sc., reports:
“These recent [EMP] fireball and other electrical events are highly anomalous and appear to pose a considerable danger to the population of not only Australia but much of the entire planet. Certainly, just one of the associated explosion/earthquakes could completely flatten a town the size of Broken Hill, Kalgoorlie, Mt Isa, Alice Springs or Canberra-with enormous loss of life. It would approximate a nuclear blast in intensity and "spoil the inhabitants' whole day…."

“Severe high-energy harmonic coupling would occur at the instance of the weapon's microsecond wave release of a concentrated EM energy pulse, and this would probably cause an explosive splitting apart of the inter-atomic-level bonding of the targeted material, e.g., below-ground rock, above-ground building structures, or in the gases of the 'air'. This would create a huge explosion and a 'regular' Earthquake, probably quite indistinguishable from a 'normal' quake; or, in the air, an 'air quake' would result.

“Such an explosion would probably be quite similar to a low-level nuclear fission blast and would involve essentially similar but EM-initiated inter-atomic processes that affect the atomic nucleus and its bonding with neighbouring atomic nuclei. It would probably create some minor residual radioactivity as a by-product of the process, due to the production of a number of exotic isotopes.

“This mechanism is probably the reason for Russian use of the code-word "Ellipton bomb" whilst referring to these types of EM weapons. ("Right-wing KGB presidential candid