It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature [Archive] - Page 21

The Shadow

01-09-2005, 03:47 AM

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=216512

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=216003

Shadow, I'm curious: Have you made one single post on this entire thread that was actually on topic, dealing with nothing bu the issue of of the global warming hoax? I looked, but I couldn't see any post like that. All the ones I found seemed to be deliberate personal attacks on other posters.

So if you DID actually post something that was entirely on-topic, please could you show me where it was. I'd like to read it.

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=216051

Stop being a crybaby, Stuey. When I first began investigating this thread, I was looking at all sides of the global warming issue, gathering different viewpoints. What I observed from the start was a bunch of assholes who were posting deliberate personal attacks on other posters. That is right. It was Jayhole, whitemajikmushroom, Yaakass, and then you who were the original flamers. Do not turn things around. Admittedly, attacking and disrupting message boards that do not meet your standards is a hobby of your little pack. The worst part of it is that you actually attempt to rationalize your behavior. It rightly speaks volumes as to the validity of your cause. I have seen nutcases on both sides, but you guys are extremists who possess absolutely no personal honor.

You are only partially correct. I do deliberately attack people personally when they fire the first volley or I see them ganging up on others. You are nothing but a bunch of pussies when you are forced to take back what you dish out. Get lives for yourselves.
You seem to have missed the question, Shadow. I guess it just slipped by your attention, becuase you asnwered a question that I didn't ask, and didn't answer the one that I did ask.

What I ACTUALLY asked is if YOU had made one single post that really contributed something useful and on-topic to this thread. Yes, others have done a bit of attacking, for sure, but we have also particpated in the discussion itself. You, on the other hand, seem to have made a special effort to avoid partcipating at all, and instead to devote your talents exclusively to hurling mud.

So, I'll repeat the question: Have you actually made one single post that was 100% on topic?
Sorry, Mr. Allslop, you are now asking a different question than before. The first time around, I gave it all the consideration it was due and than gave you the answer that you deserved. I told the truth, too. You are just pissed off because I did not allow myself to be baited and manipulated. You see, you suggested that in order to be “on topic,” a post must concern the “global warming hoax.” That was very deceptive on your part, although not unexpected.

Now, you are referring to “this thread,” in general. That is better, but you are still behaving in a very controlling manner. For you to admit that “others” have done “a bit” of attacking without recognizing the severe degree to which you and your crew have been responsible does not reflect an ounce of sincerity on your part. Moreover, that which you refer to as your “participation” has, in reality, been little more than a form of proselytizing. For instance, whitemajikmushroom seems to be quite fond of delivering uncompromising sermons along with any supporting documentation he might include. In my opinion, your specialty is in being a spinmeister.

What you contend is my lack of “participation” is intentionally misleading. Unlike you and your cronies, my life does not revolve around message board activity. Anyone can “Google” a subject and then post all kinds of information in support of a given subject or that which attempts to debunk it. I have no intention of spending valuable time playing “dueling scientific studies” with a bunch of opinionated egomaniacs. As I said previously, I came here to read and investigate what others had to offer. However, the instant that I stepped in and decided to post a character study on the chief mudslinger, himself, I became a target. That is how you guys work. Having to defend oneself, continuously, leaves very little time for anything else. You may not agree, but a lot of what I have contributed has been quite useful, if not downright revealing about the lack of character that moved in here on a mission.

Before I forget; the answer to your question is “yes.” Do not ask me to find them for you. You seem to have a lot more free time on your hands than I do.

gaiacomm

01-09-2005, 06:11 AM

At last we have a new topic! Good-Bye for now!

The Shadow

01-09-2005, 06:39 AM

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=216280

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=215902

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=215827

Thank you, gaiacomm for your insightful post.

Regarding The Shadow you said, “this person has not contributed anything at all to the actual discussion”
I noticed this, also.

You asked, “What can be done to remove this person?”
I see no need to remove anybody. The freedom of speech is a very precious freedom, and I would deny it to nobody.
The more that The Shadow is allowed to post, the clearer the image of the person casting The Shadow becomes. I find this process interesting and amusing, and degrading to that person.
That is not my post. The Shadow takes the credit for that one!
It certainly looks like your post, gaiacomm.

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=215411

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=215411

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=215373

Why, thank you! That is so very kind of you! I appreciate your gesture... :D

see you have been busy:

There is a rather unpleasant person posting on one of the longest running threads ever on Arianna (" It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature", currently running 491 pages), This individual goes by the handle "The Shadow", and seems to be making it a habit to openly threaten other posters, and to indulge in totally uncalled for personal attacks and foul language, clearly violating Arianna's Terms of Service. Here is a recent sample posted by The Shadow, in reply to another poster who commented on Shadow's threatening behavior with an amusing animated gif: "As far as I am concerned, you can stick that corkscrew up your ass and give it a few twists, but be careful to avoid scraping your cerebral cortex."

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums...st.php?p=213966

What can be done about this person?

Here are some more samples of the extremely offensive and threatening posts made by this individual:

"Not that I would suggest such a thing, but the only sure cure for the disease that is Jay Reynolds is a bullet to the head..." http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums...7691#post177691

"The Shadow knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men. However, the acute malevolence that is buried in the dark recesses of Mr. Reynolds? twisted mind is painfully obvious" http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums...8442#post178442

"whitemajikmarker, you have some nerve posing as anything besides the blithering idiot that you obviously are." http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums...2665#post182665

"With those glowing red eyes, Mr. Reynolds, you would certainly drop dead or turn to stone in the presence God. Then again, I doubt that you will ever have the opportunity to find out." http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums...5692#post185692

"The Shadow knows what evil lurks in the heart of Jay Reynolds. For one thing, if you are a Christian, then so is Osama Bin Laden." ... "the malevolence that visibly exudes from every fiber of your being is reason enough for any rational person to dismiss as ?Vioxx? anything you may have to offer." http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums...4318#post194318

In one place, the Shadow even went so far as to accuse a poster of having murdered someone: "Perhaps it would ease your soul to get off your chest the burden of your involvement in the death of William Cooper. You stuck to him like glue, did you not, Mr. Reynolds? Through thick and thin, you surely did your best to try showing him the way out... ALL the way out..." http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums...4318#post194318 and also " I am certain that Mr. Cooper must have trusted you with his life. For that error in judgment, he evidently paid the ultimate price. ... Beware, Mr. Reynolds. The wages of crime bear bitter fruit. You will know this firsthand as you one day draw your last breath." http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums...5581#post205581

To be honest, in reviewing all the posts made by this individual, I have just noticed this person has not contributed anything at all to the actual discussion (global warming) on the thread, and instead seems to be using it exclusively as a forum to attack others, especially this "Mr. Reynolds", in the most vile and offensive manner.

We really do not need this type of poster messing with our fascinating and occasionally heated discussion. It serves no purpose other than to interrupt, confuse, and cast unwelcome darks shadows on the thread.

What can be done to remove this person?
You f***ing damned liar, Yaakass! You knew damned well who made that post when you accused gaiacomm. He was only attempting to give everyone a heads up. Let this willful and contemptible deception stand out as a warning to anyone reading this board that the real evil, here, has now been exposed. It includes the rest of your partners in crime, Yaakass. No one should believe a word from any of you again.

Here is the real source of the above hit piece. I hope you like my response.
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18444

It would appear that I am correct about Mr. Allslop when I declare that he is a sniveling coward who has no personal honor. Now I know the cause of that sharp pain between my shoulder blades.

Mr. Allslop, you creepy son of a bitch, we have nothing more to discuss or debate. Go sit on Yaakass’s corkscrew and take a few spins on it, yourself. It would serve you right to be mistakenly identified by some Chilean drug dealers.

gaiacomm

01-09-2005, 06:41 AM

jayreynolds

01-09-2005, 07:06 AM

Well, that's OK. I don't care who anyone thinks I am. I am curious though about this ecological issue. I was reading in Scientific American Journal last month that global warming isn't so much the issue as ecological destabilization. Apparantly, there are a number of species of tree frogs whose offspring show a DNA imbalance that clearly measures environmenal changes.

Whatever sort of nonsense leads you to believe that an ecosystem should remain stable?

What percent of earth's species through the eons experienced extinction before the hand of man touched the earth?

Statsis isn't necessarily the rule in nature, as the recent tsunami shows. Disturbance is altogether fitting and proper in the scheme of things. Some wackos around me protest vehemently against people dredging gravel out of a creek. They say it roils the water and
disturbs the ecosystem.

Their argument falls flat when one recognizes what nature does to these creeks on an annual basis:
http--img.photobucket.com-albums-v203-beerhog-spillway1.jpg

Face it. Nature is a cruel master, one which must be fought tooth and nail for survival.
Utopian Arcadias are fine for myth and children's stories, but far from reality..
Life is a beach.

halva

01-09-2005, 07:10 AM

You are just pissed off because I did not allow myself to be baited and manipulated. You see, you suggested that in order to be “on topic,” a post must concern the “global warming hoax.”

Unlike you and your cronies, my life does not revolve around message board activity. Anyone can “Google” a subject and then post all kinds of information in support of a given subject or that which attempts to debunk it. I have no intention of spending valuable time playing “dueling scientific studies” with a bunch of opinionated egomaniacs. As I said previously, I came here to read and investigate what others had to offer. However, the instant that I stepped in and decided to post a character study on the chief mudslinger, himself, I became a target.

Shadow, by replying you are allowing yourself to be baited and manipulated.

You correctly recognize that the debunkers have absolutely nothing to offer to this thread.

What you do not explain is why you do not ignore-list them, but instead assert that your life does not revolve around message board activity and get into arguments with them. That is incoherent. What better way than abstaining from posting if you wish to demonstrate that your life does not revolve around message board activity.

Why did you post a character study on Raynolds? Who is going to be his prosecutor and judge?

We have to find such a person. A possible candidate has come along now, our new guest. And you are driving him away by your flaming.

You have also apparently brought Raynolds back to this thread, from which he had been diverted by the prospects of arguing with Bryce Rigthy at the new thread.

The promising advent of Bryce Rigthy is just going to be drowned in the general confusion.

Yaak

01-09-2005, 07:16 AM

Thank you! Its amazing what a little honest research can do.

Okay, now I see that it was Stuart's post, but you made it look like your own, gaiacomm. You were shown this and chose not to rectify it. No apologies are due you. In fact I must ask, why did you plagiarize Stuart's post?

jayreynolds

01-09-2005, 07:26 AM

Mr. Allslop, you creepy son of a bitch, we have nothing more to discuss or debate. Go sit on Yaakass’s corkscrew and take a few spins on it, yourself. It would serve you right to be mistakenly identified by some Chilean drug dealers.

Look, Diane, haven't we seen enough threats out of you?
Here's the thing about threats-
The more you make, the less meaningful they become.

Prissy little girls masquerading anonymously can brag about sealing my fate, how you're going to tattoo a bulls-eye on my head, putting a bullet in my head, you're going to take my home away from me, you'll get yaak's images removed from imageshack, Stuart getting killed by drug dealers, twisting corkscrews up people's asses, etc. remember all those threats, Diane Harvey? You made them.

Now I'm not complaining, but I am laughing at you, Diane.
You are empty.
You are hollow.
You are powerless.
A coward afraid to show her true identity,
yet making blustery threats on the internet.
Everybody knows.
You are a nobody, and a do-nothing.
What a pitiful lame little loser.

halva

01-09-2005, 08:09 AM

Small islands conference to focus on rising sea levels

PARIS (AFP) Jan 09, 2005

Climate change and rising sea levels are set to top the agenda at an international conference on developing small island nations, to be held from Monday on the Indian Ocean island of Mauritius.

The tsunamis, or huge waves, caused by an undersea earthquake in southeast Asia on December 26 have highlighted the extreme vulnerability of the world's smallest countries, some 40 of which will be represented at next week's talks.

The Maldives, a cluster of 1,192 low-lying islands scattered across the Indian Ocean, saw several of them entirely destroyed by the giant waves spreading out from the quake zone.

Looking beyond natural catastrophes to the broader challenge of global warming, the January 10-14 United Nations conference aims to help small island states prepare for the future as the world's oceans steadily rise.

Around the world, thousands of islands, river deltas and low-lying coastal areas, already at constant risk of being swamped by violent storms and high tides, are set to face a growing battle against the encroaching seas.

Average sea levels have increased by 10 to 20 centimetres (four to eight inches) over the past century, and are expected to rise by a further nine to 88 centimetres (four inches to three feet) by the year 2100, as global warming causes glaciers and polar ice caps to melt.

As many as 200 million people could be forced to migrate by the end of the century, as their homelands are swallowed up by the waters, according to a 2001 report by a group of UN climate experts working on the basis of population growth estimates of the time.

With adequate protection systems in place, however, systems capable of fending off both the ocean's gradual rise and storm-driven floods, experts believe the number of displaced could be halved to 100 million.

But developing island nations rarely have the resources to implement sophisticated sea defences such as the dykes which keep the water at bay in low-lying areas of the Netherlands.

"The very survival of island nations is at stake," according to French climate expert Michel Petit.

"Even if we completely stabilise concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, ocean levels would still continue to rise for centuries," he said. Greenhouse gases are those which raise heat and damage the ozone layer, allowing in harmful solar and other radiation.

Jean Jouzel, the French representative on the UN climate panel, warns that the oceans could eventually rise by four or five metres by the 24th or 25th century -- if, as some experts fear, the glaciers of Greenland also melt.

"(Greenland's) coastal regions are already visibly melting," said Jouzel, warning that many islands would be unable to fend off such a dramatic change.

"Although it is possible to build protection against a one-metre rise, I fail to see how we could protect ourselves against four, five metres," he said.

Among the world's most vulnerable to global warming, the South Pacific atoll nation of Tuvalu has long warned it is at risk from a rise in sea levels.

Last February, the nine islands that make up the archipelago were briefly flooded by high, or "king" tides reaching three metres above sea level, whereas the islands' highest point is just 4.5 metres high.

"We don't need more scientific research about the problem of rising sea levels, it is already happening," Tuvalu's Prime Minister Saufatu Sopo'aga had said at the time.

The giant tides, once an extremely rare occurence, now appear to be taking place at regular intervals, twice per year, and could eventually force Tuvalu's 11,500-strong population to relocate to New Zealand.

While the lack of an early-warning system has been blamed for the heavy death toll in last month's tsunamis, there is no guarantee the world will help poor island nations protect themselves from the threat of rising ocean levels.

Current trends show the states being left to fend for themselves, with international development aid to small island nations having fallen by half between 1994 and 2001, according to the United Nations.

The Shadow

01-09-2005, 08:45 AM

Look, Diane, haven't we seen enough threats out of you?
Here's the thing about threats-
The more you make, the less meaningful they become.

Prissy little girls masquerading anonymously can brag about putting bulls-eyes on my head, putting a bullet in my head, Stuart getting killed by drug dealers, twisting corkscrews up people's asses, etc. remember all those threats, Diane Harvey? You made them.

Now I'm not complaining, but I am laughing at you, Diane.
You are empty.
You are hollow.
You are powerless.
A coward afraid to show her true identity,
yet making blustery threats on the internet.
Everybody knows.
You are a nobody, and a do-nothing.
What a pitiful lame little loser.
Look, Jayhole, haven't we heard enough talk out of you?
People expect results.
You must enjoy laughing alone.
It is the same as drinking alone.
Just as I predicted, you cannot prove your claim, so you just pretend that no one notices.
That is a loser.
Where's the beef, Jayhole?
You are obsessed with Diane Harvey.
Only a coward talks behind the back of one who cannot defend herself.
You are a little man.
Everyone knows.
I am smart to conceal my identity from a psychopath.
I know that it tears at your gut because you cannot crack this case.
It haunts you in your dreams.
What has become of the great detective?
He has become a failure.
No, he is twice a failure.
There is that other unsubstantiated claim regarding ImageShack.
Prove that this is a hoax, Jayhole.
http://rangoon.imageshack.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2148
You are wrong again.
A pattern is forming.
Now, all of a sudden, the world is laughing at you.
You are a nobody and a worthless creep.
Your family must be proud.

halva

01-09-2005, 09:08 AM

Look, Jayhole, haven't we heard enough talk out of you?
People expect results.
You must enjoy laughing alone.
It is the same as drinking alone.
Just as I predicted, you cannot prove your claim, so you just pretend that no one notices.
That is a loser.
Where's the beef, Jayhole?
You are obsessed with Diane Harvey.
Only a coward talks behind the back of one who cannot defend herself.
You are a little man.
Everyone knows.
I am smart to conceal my identity from a psychopath.
I know that it tears at your gut because you cannot crack this case.
It haunts you in your dreams.
What has become of the great detective?
He has become a failure.
No, he is twice a failure.
There is that other unsubstantiated claim regarding ImageShack.
Prove that this is a hoax, Jayhole.
http://rangoon.imageshack.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2148
You are wrong again.
A pattern is forming.
Now, all of a sudden, the world is laughing at you.
You are a nobody and a worthless creep.
Your family must be proud.

Shadow, following this posting I am ignore-listing you.

You are not a friend.

jayreynolds

01-09-2005, 09:13 AM

The Maldives, a cluster of 1,192 low-lying islands scattered across the Indian Ocean, saw several of them entirely destroyed by the giant waves spreading out from the quake zone.

Average sea levels have increased by 10 to 20 centimetres (four to eight inches) over the past century

So, would a four inch seawall have helped?
Come on, Wayne, enough of scaremongering.

jayreynolds

01-09-2005, 09:18 AM

Shadow, following this posting I am ignore-listing you.
You are not a friend.
tee-hee-hee.
Looks like imageshack isn't interested in little girl prissy-fits either.

Like I said, Diane, you are nobody.

Yaak

01-09-2005, 06:29 PM

Look, Jayhole, haven't we heard enough talk out of you?
People expect results.
You must enjoy laughing alone.
It is the same as drinking alone.
Just as I predicted, you cannot prove your claim, so you just pretend that no one notices.
That is a loser.
Where's the beef, Jayhole?
You are obsessed with Diane Harvey.
Only a coward talks behind the back of one who cannot defend herself.
You are a little man.
Everyone knows.
I am smart to conceal my identity from a psychopath.
I know that it tears at your gut because you cannot crack this case.
It haunts you in your dreams.
What has become of the great detective?
He has become a failure.
No, he is twice a failure.
There is that other unsubstantiated claim regarding ImageShack.
Prove that this is a hoax, Jayhole.
http://rangoon.imageshack.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2148
You are wrong again.
A pattern is forming.
Now, all of a sudden, the world is laughing at you.
You are a nobody and a worthless creep.
Your family must be proud.

"You [Jay] must enjoy laughing alone."

I guarantee Jay is not laughing alone.
It's sad to say, but you are a foul, pathetic little whiner.
You must lead a miserable existence.
The only failure and loser at this board is you.
I pity you.

Yaak

01-09-2005, 06:33 PM

Shadow, following this posting I am ignore-listing you.

You are not a friend.

The Shadow is no one's friend, Wayne. I believe that everybody that posts here has good intentions except for The Shadow.

The Shadow

01-09-2005, 07:25 PM

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=216889

The Shadow is no one's friend, Wayne. I believe that everybody that posts here has good intentions except for The Shadow.
Yaakass, the Green River Killer also claimed to have had good intentions.

Below is a prime example of yours that was posted at MaverickGoose's board. Once a liar, always a liar. Your opinions carry absolutely no weight.

"I tried to open CTC tonight and got a message that I had been banned (again) and for no reason at all. Naturally, this cruel act by CTC warranted retaliation. I thought some low-down, dirty crudeness would be an appropriate style to use this time considering Mech's deplorable behavior on his last visit here.

"Using an IP Spoofer I re-registered as Icicles and added the post at the bottom. For those keeping track I am Yaak / YaakMT / YaakMontana / MadMontanan / Kootenai / Terkingua / Icicles (I think that's all ) at CTC. The multiple ID's are their fault for continuously banning me."

Now there is a real Eagle Scout for you. Do not make everyone puke, Yaakass.

The Shadow

01-09-2005, 07:29 PM

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=216654

Shadow, following this posting I am ignore-listing you.

You are not a friend.
Halva, perhaps it would help if you stopped trying to micro-manage this thread. Jayhole is a first-class opportunist. I seem to recall you playing right into his hands. That sure helped your cause.

The Shadow

01-09-2005, 08:01 PM

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=216660

tee-hee-hee.
Looks like imageshack isn't interested in little girl prissy-fits either.

Like I said, Diane, you are nobody.
Jayhole, I just love it when you get overconfident. You know as well as anyone else that it can take up to two weeks for an abuse complaint to be answered.

Come on, Jayhole. You accused me of bluffing and I proved you wrong. I am now calling your bluff. The time is long overdue for you to display your "well-researched" evidence that I am someone named Diane. Only a nobody like yourself continues a hoax with nothing to back it up. Those are your standards, Jayhole. Be a man. I kept my word, now you keep yours.

Why is not Yaakass and the rest of the posse demanding your proof? It is true that birds of a feather flock together. The only laughter I hear from your bunch of nobodies is that of a nervous nature. Tee-hee-hee, yourself.

The Shadow knows that Jayhole is a pussy.

halva

01-09-2005, 09:07 PM

Undeniable Global Warming

Source: Copyright 2004, Washington Post
Date: December 27, 2004
Byline: Naomi Oreskes

Many people have the impression that there is significant scientific disagreement about global climate change. It's time to lay that misapprehension to rest. There is a scientific consensus on the fact that Earth's climate is heating up and human activities are part of the reason. We need to stop repeating nonsense about the uncertainty of global warming and start talking seriously about the right approach to address it.

The scientific consensus is clearly expressed in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Created in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environmental Program, the IPCC is charged with evaluating the state of climate science as a basis for informed policy action. In its most recent assessment, the IPCC states unequivocally that the consensus of scientific opinion is that Earth's climate is being affected by human activities: "Human activities . . . are modifying the concentration of atmospheric constituents . . . that absorb or scatter radiant energy. . . . [M]ost of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations."

The IPCC is not alone in its conclusions. In recent years all major scientific bodies in the United States whose members' expertise bears directly on the matter have issued similar statements. A National Academy of Sciences report begins unequivocally: "Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise." The report explicitly asks whether the IPCC assessment is a fair summary of professional scientific thinking, and it answers yes. Others agree. The American Meteorological Society, the American Geophysical Union and the American Association for the Advancement of Science have all issued statements concluding that the evidence for human modification of climate is compelling.

Despite recent allegations to the contrary, these statements from the leadership of scientific societies and the IPCC accurately reflect the state of the art in climate science research. The Institute for Scientific Information keeps a database on published scientific articles, which my research assistants and I used to answer that question with respect to global climate change. We read 928 abstracts published in scientific journals between 1993 and 2003 and listed in the database with the keywords "global climate change." Seventy-five percent of the papers either explicitly or implicitly accepted the consensus view. The remaining 25 percent dealt with other facets of the subject, taking no position on whether current climate change is caused by human activity. None of the papers disagreed with the consensus position. There have been arguments to the contrary, but they are not to be found in scientific literature, which is where scientific debates are properly adjudicated. There, the message is clear and unambiguous.

To be sure, a handful of scientists have raised questions about the details of climate models, about the accuracy of methods for evaluating past global temperatures and about the wisdom of even attempting to predict the future. But this is quibbling about the details. The basic picture is clear, and some changes are already occurring. A new report by the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment -- a consortium of eight countries, including Russia and the United States -- now confirms that major changes are taking place in the Arctic, affecting both human and non-human communities, as predicted by climate models. This information was conveyed to the U.S. Senate last month not by a radical environmentalist, as was recently alleged on the Web, but by Robert Corell, a senior fellow of the American Meteorological Society and former assistant director for geosciences at the National Science Foundation.

So why does it seem as if there is major scientific disagreement? Because a few noisy skeptics -- most of whom are not even scientists -- have generated a lot of chatter in the mass media. At the National Press Club recently, Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor Richard Lindzen dismissed the consensus as "religious belief." To be sure, no scientific conclusion can ever be proven, absolutely, but it is no more a "belief" to say that Earth is heating up than it is to say that continents move, that germs cause disease, that DNA carries hereditary information or that quarks are the basic building blocks of subatomic matter. You can always find someone, somewhere, to disagree, but these conclusions represent our best available science, and therefore our best basis for reasoned action.

The chatter of skeptics is distracting us from the real issue: how best to respond to the threats that global warming presents.

The writer is an associate professor of history and director of the Program in Science Studies at the University of California.

Originally posted at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26065-2004Dec25.html

gaiacomm

01-09-2005, 10:57 PM

Boys come on now we have guests!

Insurrectionchemistry

01-10-2005, 12:35 AM

http://rense.com/general61/theearthasaweapon.htm

The Earth As A Weapon In 21st Century Of Wars
By Rahab S Hawa

halva

01-10-2005, 05:01 AM

Apocalypse No - Assessing catastrophic climate change

A Scientific Alliance Conference

Thursday 27th January 2005

9.00 until 13.00, followed by lunch until 14.00

Central London Venue

Limited Number of Complimentary Tickets Available (see below)

Speakers include:

§ Professor David Bellamy

§ Professor S. Fred Singer, President, Science and Environmental Policy Project

§ Professor Richard S. Lindzen, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

§ Conference Chair: Professor Sir Colin Berry, Queen Mary, University of London

The conference, featuring leading experts on climate change issues, will raise awareness about the scientific uncertainties surrounding climate change theory. It will also address a number of questions concerning scenarios of catastrophic climate change including:

§ Are extreme weather events on the increase due to global warming?

§ Are the world's glaciers melting?

§ Is Europe facing a new ice age due to global warming?

§ Will rising sea levels flood parts of Britain?

§ Will global agriculture suffer because of global warming?

Apocalypse No will be taking place in advance of the Met Office’s Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research conference; Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change: A Scientific Symposium on Stabilisation of Greenhouse Gases, from 1-3 February. Tony Blair has promised the Met Office conference “will address the big questions on which we need to pool the answers available from the science”. We hope that our event will help ensure that no questions or answers are overlooked or unwisely assumed.

Attendance Fees:

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We have a limited number of complimentary tickets available for this conference. If you would like to apply for one, please reply to this email, stating:

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Do bear in mind that numbers are limited and complimentary tickets will be allocated on a first come, first served basis; early registration is therefore advised. If we receive your response after all the complimentary tickets have been allocated, you will be offered the opportunity to register for the conference as a paying participant.

A confirmation email will be sent to you before the event, with full details including the detailed agenda and directions to the venue.

Yours sincerely,

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Professor S. Fred Singer
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Insurrectionchemistry

01-10-2005, 06:03 AM

http://rense.com/general61/wwodp.htm

gaiacomm

01-10-2005, 06:34 AM

http://rense.com/general61/wwodp.htm

Sounds like the Gaiacomm technology without all the conspiracy and one world government stuff!

halva

01-10-2005, 06:43 AM

Unlike Shadow, Jim Phelps is at least trying to be a team player, but Jim do you really think Biblical prophecy is going to help us deal with the gentlemen of posting 5023?

I am not talking about private inspiration and solace. I mean usable ideas. You have usable ideas. Why don't you focus on them more?

gaiacomm

01-10-2005, 06:44 AM

HAARP: http://rp.iszf.irk.ru/esceir/tasksen.htm

gaiacomm

01-10-2005, 06:45 AM

HAARP
Controlled Local Modification of the Ionosphere

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAARP Probing Northern Lights
by Jim Wilson

The single most contentious question in science at the end of the 20th century isn't about evolution, the origin of the universe or human cloning, but, "What is the government really up to near Gakona, Alaska?" Officially, this 33-acre gravel pad near the Tok Highway 180 miles northeast of Anchorage is the home of the high-frequency active auroral research program (HAARP). Depending upon who you ask for a more detailed description, HAARP is either a futuristic weapon, a scientific research project, a global mind control scheme-rivaling network TV-or the cause of a reptilian invasion from another dimension. In addition to its real functions-which we will get to in a moment-HAARP has replaced the magic-pellet gasoline substitute as the great techno-legend of our time. (The magic pellet, by the way, is actually calcium carbide. It reacts with water to produce acetylene that will fuel an internal combustion engine, at least until the corrosive exhaust eats through the cylinder walls.)

HAARP is not quite as easy to explain as magic fuel pellets. Part of the reason is that it is involved in a fairly complicated area of research. Operated by the Air Force Research Laboratory's Space Vehicles Directorate, it houses what is perhaps the most impressive collection of ionosphere research instruments ever assembled. If you are a physicist who explores this region 25 to 500 miles above sea level, you couldn't ask for a better-equipped lab.

So large an investment in so remote a location logically raises the question: Why? For the same reason that Willie Sutton hung out around banks. Because of its far northerly latitude-well into northern lights country-Gakona is an excellent vantage point for studying the ionosphere. We sit at the bottom of a gaseous sea of dense, electrically neutral gases. This familiar situation changes as we rise into the sky. At higher altitudes, the air becomes less dense. This means the radiation from the sun has less atmosphere to penetrate. Being more energetic, it strips gas molecules of their electrons, turning them into the ions for which this region is named, the ionosphere.

The presence of ions and electrons in this layer causes electromagnetic radiation from man-made sources to be absorbed, reflected and distorted. The absorptive and reflective characteristics of the ionosphere are the reason why amplitude-modulated radio broadcasts that can be heard within only a few tens of miles from their transmitters during the day can be heard thousands of miles away at night. The ionosphere's ability to distort signals can produce effects that are downright spooky. Consider the "Luxembourg effect," which sent shivers down the spines of international radio listeners in 1933. "In this case a weak Swiss radio station appeared to be modulated with signals from the powerful Luxembourg station, which was transmitting at a completely different frequency. Music from the Luxembourg station was picked up at the frequency of the Swiss station," explains a Department of Defense (DOD) spokesman.

The Pentagon isn't interested in explaining mysteries from the early days of radio. "The continual growth in the number of civilian and military satellite systems whose performance depends on paths passing through the ionosphere, encourages not only good characterization and monitoring of the ionospheric state, but also an examination of what controlled local modification of the ionosphere, using ground [high-frequency] transmitters, could do for and to these systems," says the DOD.

HAARP Science

Creating that "controlled local modification of the ionosphere" is what the HAARP project is all about. To do this, HAARP team researchers are using a high-power, high-frequency phased array radio transmitter known as the Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI) to heat pockets of the ionosphere. It will do this by transmitting a narrow beam of high-power radio signals in the 2.8- to 10-MHz frequency range.

The antennas needed to beam this energy are enormous. Sitting on a gravel pad, they cover 33 acres with 180 72-ft. towers. The towers are spaced 80 ft. apart, forming a rectangular grid (see photo above). Each tower supports two pairs of crossed dipole antennas. One antenna is tuned to transmit at between 2.8 and 7 MHz. Its companion transmitter at between 7 and 10 MHz. An elevated ground screen acts as a reflector. It is raised about 15 ft. off the ground to allow truck access to 30 transmitter shelters. According to DOD documents, each contains six pairs of 10-kilowatt transmitters. Operating together, they deliver 3600 kilowatts to the antenna network.

The signal transmitted from the network of antennas travels upward and is partially absorbed. This heats a pocket of air about 30 miles in diameter and a few hundred yards thick directly over the facility. The remainder of the signal is either reflected back to Earth or continues to travel through the ionosphere and then into space, diverging like the beam of a flashlight. By the time it reaches the ionosphere, signal strength is hundreds of times less than the variations in intensity of the sun's natural ultraviolet energy.

After HAARP researchers zap the sky, they look at it. The chief tool for determining the effect of this energy release is an ultrahigh-frequency incoherent scatter radar, which measures electron densities, electron and ion temperatures, and Doppler velocities in the natural ionosphere and in IRI stimulated regions. Radios, magnetic field measurement devices, light detection and ranging instruments, and optical and infrared spectrometers and cameras round out the instrument package. The researchers are not the only ones who can tune into HAARP. During a recent test in which a Morse code message was transmitted at 6.990 MHz, reception was reported by short-wave listeners as far away as Australia and Japan.

Beyond learning about the effects of solar activity on radio broadcasts, HAARP may also give us new insights into the Earth. By coupling its receivers with high-speed computers, it may be possible to create what is essentially a CAT scan of the planet. Among other things, this could make it possible to detect underground nuclear explosions set off in violation of test ban agreements. With HAARP only now coming online at full power, it may be several years before it begins living up to its scientific potential.

HAARP Myths

There is, however, one area where HAARP has already made itself into the record books. Like the HAARP signal, criticism of the project can also be heard around the world. HAARP's more responsible critics want the project shut down because of widely acknowledged uncertainties about the effects of exposure to radio frequency energy to people near the transmitters. HAARP managers claim the installation is safe. In time, this issue will be resolved one way or the other.

The HAARP myths may not be so easily dealt with. Like most they are partially based in fact. An electromagnetic wave missile-killing system was once proposed for the area, but never built. And HAARP is also the site of an unbuilt over-the-horizon radar installation. These connections have provided more than sufficient grist for the talk-radio/Internet conspiracy mill. My personal favorite is a hoax fax to the Joint Chiefs of Staff that claims the accidental shutdown of a HAARP transmitter created a space-time rift, that allowed reptilian creatures from another dimension to invade upstate New York. If you buy that one, you probably believe the century's second-best techno-legend, too-the one that claims Bill Gates always flies coach.

gaiacomm

01-10-2005, 06:47 AM

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO409F.html

gaiacomm

01-10-2005, 06:50 AM

http://www.padrak.com/ine/HAARP97.html

The Shadow

01-10-2005, 07:20 AM

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=217016

Unlike Shadow, Jim Phelps is at least trying to be a team player...
You are quite correct, Wayne. I am not a team player. I am an individual with a mind of my own. ;)

stuart_allsop

01-10-2005, 08:00 AM

Sorry, Mr. Allslop, you are now asking a different question no, it's the same one, actually
...<blather blather balh blah blit blot> ... and finally, after three paragraphs of verbal diarohea, we get an answer
Before I forget; the answer to your question is ?yes.? Do not ask me to find them for you. Wel,, it must have been a REALLY small and inconsequential contribution, because of the 40-something posts of yours on this thread that I've looked at, none of them came even remotely close to being on topic. Pretty much all of them strongly resemble a stream of putrid filth exiting a sewer pipe. But I'll take your word for it. If you insist that you did actually post something cohesive, relevant, and on-topic, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. (Lots of doubt and very little benefit, to be sure, but nevertheless I'll give it to you.)

stuart_allsop

01-10-2005, 08:16 AM

You f***ing damned liar, Yaakass! You knew damned well who made that post when you accused gaiacomm. He was only attempting to give everyone a heads up. Let this willful and contemptible deception stand out as a warning to anyone reading this board that the real evil, here, has now been exposed. It includes the rest of your partners in crime, Yaakass. No one should believe a word from any of you again.

Here is the real source of the above hit piece. I hope you like my response.
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18444

It would appear that I am correct about Mr. Allslop when I declare that he is a sniveling coward who has no personal honor. Now I know the cause of that sharp pain between my shoulder blades.

Mr. Allslop, you creepy son of a bitch, we have nothing more to discuss or debate. Go sit on Yaakass?s corkscrew and take a few spins on it, yourself. It would serve you right to be mistakenly identified by some Chilean drug dealers.Oh dear! My, my, my! Tsk, tsk, tsk. It looks like I REALLY hit a nerve with that one, did I not, Diane? It seems that being exposed to the relevant authorities for what you are is extremely disagreeablt to you, and needles you no end. Hmmmm.... I must keep that in mind, for future reference. I'm SURE it will come in handy, sooner or later. :)

However, I must admit that I am surprised on two counts: 1) Your sudden decent into the gutter (plus the accompanying sudden grammatical laxness) in order to find expletives with which you feel comfortable in venting your ire and spleen, not to mention the contents of your mind (which seem to bear an uncannily curious relationship to the contents of your bowels); and 2) the extreme over-reaction to someone else doing EXACTLY what you yourself boasted so gleefully about doing. Just a couple of days ago you came in here excitedly bubbling (or was it frothing?) about how you had contacted the "abuse" department of some web host with the expressly declared intent of knifing Yaak, and you were SO please with your little self at having done so! Yet, when I report your sickening abuse to Arriana, you react with stunned, slack-jawed, shock, then let loose with a stream of invective that would make a sailor proud! Why would you react like that when others do what you think it is good to do? Hmmm.... MIght one assume that you like to dish it out, but you just cannot take it? Or might there be a deeper reason? Hmmmm.... maybe some investiagtion would be in order...

In any event, it seems as though my action has most certainly achieved the desired and expect reaction, rather more spectacularly than I had imagined it would!

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! he he he he! :) :) :)

whitemajikman

01-10-2005, 11:36 AM

You are quite correct, Wayne. I am not a team player. I am an individual with a mind of my own. ;)

GOOD TO HEAR.......

Now be an individual ,and use that mind you profess to have,and lets discuss the article below.........

And where you fit in.........

Do you have the cerebral capacity to this........?

or are you all about MINDLESS DISRUPTION...........?

so prove to us beyond a SHADOW of a DOUBT that you do indeed even possess such a thing as a "MIND OF YOUR OWN"........

COLUMNIST

Sun, January 9, 2005

The myth of Kyoto

By Peter Worthington -- For the Toronto Sun

THROUGHOUT THE Cold War, until the final collapse of the Soviet Empire, there were always people in the West -- usually well-educated -- who believed in the good intentions of communism.

Universities were an incubator for Marxism and a benign view of Soviet altruism. When Sovietism became tainted after "aberrations" like crushing the Hungarian rebellion (1956) and the invasion of Czechoslovakia (196, admiration was shifted to China and the humanitarianism of Mao Tse-tung. Until he was also discredited.

Such people tended to blame the West (i.e. the U.S.) for the Cold War, and figured if we disarmed, the Kremlin would also disarm, making the world safer.

When the Soviet Union imploded, I and others wrote that the types who once saw humanity in Marxism would now switch to the environment and see salvation for mankind in opposing those they felt were desecrating nature.

Out of this "instinct" emerged the Kyoto Accord -- the campaign to fight global warming which supposedly threatens the world, but is a myth.

One who combats the Kyoto/global warming myth is novelist Michael Crichton, whose new book, State of Fear, is a thriller laced with indisputable facts. Another is America and Europe by Canadian Craig Read. Both books should make those who espouse Kyoto feel foolish.

Kyoto, like global warming, is more political than scientific. Neither stands up to scientific scrutiny; both appeal to those who favour more state control and economic restrictions, and who favour redistribution of wealth and resources at the expense of the U.S.

New ice age

Warnings of global warming by the UN and select scientists are reminiscent of UN warnings around 1970 that a new ice age was approaching -- which it may well be, in a thousand years or so.

Like Crichton, Read notes that climate change is one of the least-understood sciences, involving the sun, atmosphere, oceans, land surface, ice sheets, the biosphere, cloud coverage, etc. -- all relationships impossible to gauge or predict in modelling programs by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) which advises the UN.

The more one examines global warming, the less likely it seems that carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions have anything but a negligible effect. The Kyoto agreement calls for developed nations to reduce CO2 emissions to 1990 levels, but okays poor countries continuing with fossil fuel emissions until they catch up to developed country emissions. Poor nations can even sell their "credits" to rich countries that can continue violating standards.

Does that make sense? Of course not. More, Kyoto seems an intricate scheme to redistribute wealth -- to hold back rich countries so poorer ones can catch up.

The U.S. has rejected Kyoto. That means it's dead.

No evidence

In fact, there's no evidence that CO2 is damaging to nature. Also, there is solid scientific evidence that CO2 lags average temperature rises by several centuries. CO2 levels were higher at the end of the last ice age (114,000 years ago) than during the much warmer period 43 million years earlier. CO2 levels are higher today than the relatively hot period 17 million years ago.

Scientifically, there seems little relation between CO2 levels and warmth. Cold summers and hot winters (and vice-versa) are far more likely to be cyclical -- nothing to do with SUVs or air conditioners.

From 1910-1945, temperatures rose slightly, then cooled between 1945 and 1975 -- when, inexplicably, CO2 emissions rose. Temperatures rose again 1975-2000, with the CO2 rise negligible.

I'm no scientist, but I recognize political agendas and wealth-redistribution schemes. And Kyoto and IPCC are recognizably political rather than scientific. SUVs and world trade are irrelevant to changes in the weather or climate.

What exactly is Kyoto? It seems aimed at reducing the energy advantage enjoyed by the U.S. It also advances the lib-left's influence on environmental control and media support. It enhances more government control over the economy, and limits independence and entrepreneurial projects.

These goals are reminiscent of discredited Marxism.

As in the bad old days of the Cold War, when the average working guy, more than the enlightened academic, knew instinctively that Marxism was up to no good, so working people today ignore the warnings of impending doom if Kyoto doesn't succeed.

First, cyclical weather changes are normal and inevitable. Second, a little more global warming this winter would be welcome.

WMM

whitemajikman

01-10-2005, 11:44 AM

gaiacomm

01-10-2005, 05:20 PM

Interesting...

whitemajikman

01-10-2005, 05:33 PM

Climate Change
Begun in 1989, the Institute's program involves a critical examination of the scientific basis for global climate change policy. The intent is to promote a clear understanding of the state of climate science and assess the implications for public policy. A major component of this effort is communicating the findings to policy makers, the media and the public policy community.

For about a decade, there has been an ongoing debate about the contribution of human activities to the global warming of the past century and how they may contribute to warming that may occur during the 21st century. Too often this debate has been contentious. International efforts to reach agreement on inferences about human influence on the climate system that can be drawn from science and policy prescriptions for addressing the climate change risk have been controversial as well.

Wise, effective climate policy flows from a sound scientific foundation and a clear understanding of what science does and does not tell us about human influence and about courses of action to manage risk. Many of the temperature data and computer models used to predict climate change are themselves uncertain. Reducing these many uncertainties requires a significant shift in the way climate change research is carried out in the U.S. and elsewhere.

Are calls about the uncertainty in the state of scientific knowledge a call for no action? Nothing could be further from the truth. The message to policy makers is not to delay actions until uncertainties are reduced. Rather, actions should flow from the state of knowledge, should be related to a long-term strategy and objectives and should be capable of being adjusted – one way or the other – as the understanding of human influence improves. There is a sufficient basis for action because the climate change risk is real. Yet it is equally true that actions must not be predicated on speculative images of an apocalyptic vision of life in the near future.

The link below leads you to a wealth of articles and info dealing with climate change........

http://marshall.org/subcategory.php?id=9 (http://)

halva

01-10-2005, 09:27 PM

Interesting...

What is interesting, Gaiacomm?

halva

01-10-2005, 09:32 PM

This is the text of a spam e-mail I received today from a certain 'Terry Dennison', a Raynolds figure in the field of personal relations:

"See who is cheating in your area. We have close to one million women joined that are married and looking to date
(I initially put the URL, but have now edited it out.)

You must admit: Terry Dennison is on to a brilliant scheme: get commission from suckers who want to use your agency to find women who are cheating on their husbands, and then get another commission from blackmailing the women concerned.

I think you are in the wrong business Raynolds.

halva

01-10-2005, 09:41 PM

Concern grows for tsunami relief workers
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6754820/

Past rebel-government clashes spark concerns; deaths pass 150,000MSNBC staff and news service reports

Updated: 8:43 p.m. ET Jan. 10, 2005BANDA ACEH, Indonesia - Indonesia’s military asked aid groups in tsunami-stricken areas Monday to draw up a list of international relief workers — and to report on their movements — as fears arose for the safety of foreigners helping survivors in a region wracked by rebellion long before the waves hit.

The request underlined the unease with which Indonesia has faced the growth of the biggest aid operation in history, replete with foreign soldiers and civilian humanitarian workers.

Indonesian authorities have long been wary of foreigners’ presence in the tsunami-stricken Aceh province, where separatists have been fighting government troops for more than 20 years. Foreigners were banned from the province at the northern tip of Sumatra island until the earthquake hit Dec. 26, touching off the tsunami.

Although the government has portrayed the rebels as ruthless killers willing to attack aid convoys and use refugee camps as hideouts, the military has yet to offer evidence to back its claims. Clashes between Indonesian troops and separatists have subsided since the disaster.

New security concerns
However, security concerns have also been heightened by the appearance of an Islamic extremist group with alleged links to al-Qaida. The group, Laskar Mujahidin, which has been involved in armed clashes with Christians in other parts of Indonesia, is distributing aid and has promised not to attack foreigners.

United Nations staff members in Aceh are on high alert, and armed guards patrol their compounds. Joel Boutroue, head of the U.N. relief effort in Aceh, said he did not believe Indonesia was trying to impede aid efforts with its request for information.

“It’s normal they want to know where people are,” he said. “I think it’s a legitimate concern for the security of relief workers, considering the environment in which we’re working.”

Indonesian official: No fights with rebels
Indonesian military chief Endriartono Sutarto said his forces are not conducting offensive operations against Acehnese rebels, despite reports they have attacked aid convoys, and even briefly kidnapped Indonesian relief workers.

Sutarto said the workers were rescued by Indonesian forces but gave no further details. Indonesia’s military warned aid workers Sunday that rebels in Aceh were taking shelter in camps for survivors, but the government dismissed those claims Monday.

Meanwhile, Indonesia’s government promised to intensify efforts to recover and bury tens of thousands of victims of the tsunami, which has killed more than 150,000 people in 11 countries. Workers dug into the soft earth in the driving rain, hoisting the corpses into water-filled pits and heaping dirt over them.

According to the State Department's latest tally of U.S. casualties in the region, 18 Americans have been confirmed killed in the disaster — 10 in Thailand and 8 in Sri Lanka. Another 17 are presumed dead; and there are 780inquiries still to be resolved. This number continues to decline steadily; it was at more than 1,000 earlier Monday.

Bush: More aid to be ‘demand driven’
President Bush said Monday the United States “is committed today and we will be committed tomorrow” to tsunami victims in the Indian Ocean, but did not commit to any specific increase in U.S. aid to the region.

“We’ll see,” Bush said after receiving a report on the destruction from Secretary of State Colin Powell, just back from a tour of Indonesia, Thailand and Sri Lanka. “The dollars are demand driven.”

Earlier, White House press secretary Scott McClellan said the tsunami-ravaged nations will need much more help than the assistance already pledged by the rest of the world and that the United States “will be there throughout to help the people of the region recover.”

Bush did not promise that the U.S. commitment of $350 million in aid would rise. “It could,” he said, when asked.

What is needed, the president said, is to consult with other nations to “make sure the money that is available actually achieves a coordinated objective” before there can be any decision to give more.

“The key is to provide immediate relief, which we are doing,” he said. “Now we’re in the process of beginning to rehabilitate and reconstruct these societies.”

Powell reports
The “most intense,” long-term need is in Banda Aceh, which Powell said had seen unimaginable devastation that will take years to rebuild.

Powell, just back from a tour of Indonesia, Thailand and Sri Lanka, said Sunday that the U.S. response to the disaster has been “quite good,” and that all the nations in the region have been thankful. He said people were not starving and food was reaching the region, “but there should be no illusion as to how long it’s going to take to rebuild these communities.”

Helicopter crash, aftershock
A U.S. helicopter on a relief mission crashed in a rice paddy 500 yards from the Banda Aceh airport Monday, injuring all 10 servicemen aboard. Mechanical failure was blamed for the crash.

Six of the servicemen had serious injuries, four had minor injuries. The worst injury was a dislocated pelvis.

Aftershocks from the massive earthquake that spawned the killer waves continued to rattle residents in the hardest-hit countries. A 6.2-magnitude temblor sent people scrambling from their homes early Monday in Banda Aceh; no injuries or damage was reported.

Indonesian authorities promised to speed up the grim task of recovering and burying the dead. Welfare Minister Alwi Shihab said 58,281 bodies had been buried in the shattered area on the northern tip of Sumatra island. He said some 50,000 more are “scattered” around the region.

Some corpses are still trapped in collapsed buildings and rotting under debris in canals and rivers. Their stench still hangs over some areas of the provincial capital.

Schools reopen
In the latest sign that life is slowly returning to normal, children returned to school for the start of the new term — long before many institutions damaged in the disaster can provide proper education. Social workers hope the resumption of studies will help children overcome the trauma of the catastrophe.

About 80 students, some accompanied by their parents, showed up at state-run Vidyaloka, in Galle, Sri Lanka, a tiny fraction of the 2,400 students who are registered. Some had no uniforms.

In a rare happy story, a 22-year-old Indonesian, Ari Afrizal, was rescued at sea sometime late last week by the United Arab Emirates-registered AL Yamamah, said Sasheila Paramsothy, a spokeswoman for the shipping harbor Westport Malaysia.

Afrizal was swept out to sea when the tsunami hit his home in Aceh, Paramsothy said, adding that the ship crew has not provided other details.

Other developments

Former President Clinton on Monday launched a $45 million appeal with UNICEF, the U.N. children’s agency, to provide clean water and sanitation to tsunami victims. Tapped by President Bush along with former President George H.W. Bush to increase private donations, Clinton said “our inquiries determined that in the weeks and months ahead more resources will be needed to provide clean water and adequate sanitation both for survival and for the prevention of disease.” UNICEF is vaccinating some 600,000 survivors in Sumatra’s devastated regions. Fears of epidemic there increased after medical teams found two unconnected cases of measles and quickly vaccinated more than 1,000 people in nearby villages.

After days of delays, U.S. Marines landed Monday at two disaster spots. A high-tech hovercraft carried tons of food, water and a forklift to help an Indonesian town. About 100 Marines also went ashore in southern Sri Lanka for the first time, bringing heavy machinery to clear devastated areas. Dozens of residents converged on the palm-tree studded beach in Koggala town to watch as the Americans — most of them loaded down with heavy rucksacks — waded through the surging waves.

The Indonesian government also said rebels were not responsible for a shooting near the main U.N. compound on Sunday, contradicting earlier assertions by the country’s military and police. Welfare Minister Alwi Shihab said a troubled Indonesian soldier, not a rebel gunman, was responsible for the burst of gunfire. The soldier was in custody, Shihab said.
NBC News' Tammy Kupperman and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

halva

01-10-2005, 11:06 PM

Review: State Of Fear - Michael Crichton
11 January 2005
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3152938a4501,00.html

Floods, storms, tsunamis - sound familiar? Once again, Michael Crichton's timing is uncanny, says Mark Broatch.

As thousands of families grieve and search hopelessly for those lost across the beachfront towns of the Indian Ocean, imagine how swiftly the mood would change from mourning to blind fury if it turned out that the tsunami which inflicted the blow had somehow been triggered by saboteurs.

Michael Crichton poses such a crazy scenario in State of Fear. In the Pacific Ocean, I should quickly add, and no one has suggested that the Richter scale 9 quake off Sumatra was anything but the tragic result of cold geologic fate. That the release of the book has coincided with this water-borne catastrophe is dumb tough luck; though, as some PR types will have it, no publicity is bad.

Yes, Crichton, no stranger to fanning the flames of paranoia and cuddling up to the latest variety of phobia, makes eco-types the villains in his latest novel. Previously, he has warned us of the dangers of letting the Japanese control technological advances (Rising Sun), about the dangers of messing with DNA (Jurassic Park), about the dangers of messing with time travel (Timeline), about the dangers of messing with nanotechnology (Prey), about the dangers of female sexual harassment (Disclosure) . . . Presumably, the perils of Chinese manufacturing or rampant stem cell research are to occupy the unreasonably smooth-skinned Crichton well into his seventh decade.

The plot - the term, along with novel, could easily be framed by inverted commas, such is the transparency of their message and method - revolves around a philanthropist who gives his money to worthy green causes. Then he drives his ancient Porsche off a Los Angeles hillside. His advisers and friends subsequently race around the globe trying to stop floods and lightning strikes and tsunamis which may be the result of eco-terrorists trying to force the debate over funding and policy.

"The undisputed master of the techno-thriller" (according to his website) warns us about the debatable science underlying many of the claims for global warming and an increase in unusual climatic events. Fine, but regardless of where you sit on the matter, you won't appreciate the heavy hand of pedagogy that Crichton always takes, complete this time with footnotes and appendices.

Apart from its relentless nagging, this 600-pager's more annoying features include the usual characters so thin as to be translucent; laziness such as people having "British" accents and the use of newspaper shorthand, such "the millionaire philanthropist . . ."; jargon-dropping; snatches of dialogue heard a la The Famous Five ("secret passage blah blah . . ."); a vague association by the author between environmentalism and eugenics.

For brains-free reading, though, I acknowledge Crichton's strengths: three-page chapters, breathless action, characters endlessly "monologuing", repetition of titles, names and facts, plus acres of research you might have done if you had the time. Apart from the ongoing assault on literature, the real pity is that some of his millions of readers will stop recycling, conserving and cutting their polluting - because it's all bollocks, anyway.

State Of Fear by Michael Crichton, HarperCollins, $31.99.

halva

01-11-2005, 12:05 AM

Published on Monday, March 1, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
Will The End of Oil Mean The End of America?
by Robert Freeman

In Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert Pirsig tells the story of a South American Indian tribe that has devised an ingenious monkey trap. The Indians cut off the small end of a coconut and stuff it with sweetmeats and rice. They tether the other end to a stake and place it in a clearing.

Soon, a monkey smells the treats inside and comes to see what it is. It can just barely get its hand into the coconut but, stuffed with booty, it cannot pull the hand back out. The Indians easily walk up to the monkey and capture it. Even as the Indians approach, the monkey screams in horror, not only in fear of its captors, but equally as much, one imagines, in recognition of the tragedy of its own lethal but still unalterable greed.

Pirsig uses the story to illustrate the problem of value rigidity. The monkey cannot properly evaluate the relative worth of a handful of food compared to its life. It chooses wrongly, catastrophically so, dooming itself by its own short-term fixation on a relatively paltry pleasure.

America has its own hand in a coconut, one that may doom it just as surely as the monkey. That coconut is its dependence on cheap oil in a world where oil will soon come to an end. The choice we face (whether to let the food go or hold onto it) is whether to wean ourselves off of oil—to quickly evolve a new economy and a new basis for civilization—or to continue to secure stable supplies from the rest of the world by force.

As with Pirsig’s monkey, the alternative consequences of each choice could not be more dramatic. Weaning ourselves off of cheap oil, while not easy, will help ensure the vitality of the American economy and the survival of its political system. Choosing the route of force will almost certainly destroy the economy and doom America’s short experiment in democracy.

To date, we have chosen the second alternative: to secure oil by force. The evidence of its consequences are all around us. They include the titanic US budget and trade deficits funding a gargantuan, globally-deployed military and the Patriot Act and its starkly anti-democratic rescissions of civil liberties. There is little time left to change this choice before its consequences become irreversible.

The world is quickly running out of oil. In the year 2000, global production stood at 76 Million Barrels per Day (MBD). By 2020, demand is forecast to reach 112 MBD, an increase of 47%. But additions to proven reserves have virtually stopped and it is clear that pumping at present rates is unsustainable. Estimates of the date of “peak global production” vary with some experts saying it already may have occurred as early as the year 2000. New Scientist magazine recently placed the year of peak production in 2004. Virtually all experts believe it will almost certainly occur before the end of this decade.

And the rate of depletion is accelerating. Imagine a production curve that rises slowly over 145 years—the time since oil was discovered in Pennsylvania in 1859. Over this time, the entire world shifted to oil as the foundation of industrial civilization. It invested over one hundreds trillion dollars in a physical infrastructure and an economic system run entirely on oil. But oil production is now at its peak and the right hand side of the curve is a virtual drop off. Known reserves are being drawn down at 4 times the rate of new discoveries.

The reason for the drop off is that not only have all the “big” discoveries already been made, the rate of consumption is increasing dramatically. Annual world energy use is up five times since 1945. Increases are now driven by massive developing countries—China, India, Brazil—growing and emulating first or at least second world consumption standards. Fixed supply. Stalled discoveries. Sharply increased consumption. This is the formula for global oil depletion within the next few decades.

The situation is especially critical in the US. With barely 4% of the world’s population, the US consumes 26% of the world’s energy. But the US produced only 9 MBD in 2000 while consuming 19 MBD. It made up the difference by importing 10 MBD, or 53% of its needs. By 2020, the US Department of Energy forecasts domestic demand will grow to 25 MBD but production will be down to 7 MBD. The daily shortfall of 18 MBD or 72% of needs, will all need to be imported.

Perhaps it goes without saying but it deserves repeating anyway: oil is the sine qua non of “industrial” civilization—the one thing without which such civilization cannot exist. All of the world’s 600 million automobiles depend on oil. So do virtually all other commodities and critical processes: airlines, chemicals, plastics, medicines, agriculture, heating, etc. Almost all of the increase in world food productivity over the past 50 years is attributable to increases in the use of oil-derived additives: pesticides; herbicides; fungicides; fertilizers; and machinery.

When oil is gone, civilization will be stupendously different. The onset of rapid depletion will trigger convulsions on a global scale, including, likely, global pandemics and die-offs of significant portions of the world’s human population. The “have” countries will face the necessity kicking the “have-nots” out of the global lifeboat in order to assure their own survival. Even before such conditions are reached, inelastic supply interacting with inelastic demand will drive the price of oil and oil-derived commodities through the stratosphere, effecting by market forces alone massive shifts in the current distribution of global wealth.

If the US economy is not to grind to a halt under these circumstances it must choose one of three alternate strategies: dramatically lower its living standards (something it is not willing to do); substantially increase the energy efficiency of its economy; or make up the shortfall by securing supplies from other countries. President Bush’s National Energy Policy published in March 2001 explicitly commits the US to the third choice: Grab the Oil. It is this choice that is now driving US military and national security policy. And, in fact, the past 60 years of US policy in the Middle East can only be understood as the effort to control access to the world’s largest supply of oil.

Witness, for example, the deep US embrace of Saudi Arabia since World War II. One quarter of all US weapons sales between 1950 and 2000 went to Saudi Arabia despite its horrifically repressive, literally medieval tribal nature. The CIA’s overthrow of Mohamed Mosadegh in Iran in 1953 after he nationalized his country’s oil is another example. So, too, was the US strategic embrace of Israel during the 1967 Six Day War. The US was deeply mired in Vietnam but needed a “cop on the beat” to challenge Arab states—Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Yemen—that were “going Soviet.” It has stuck with that relationship ever since.

More recent examples of national strategy in bondage to the compulsion for oil include US support for Saddam Hussein in the Iran/Iraq War; its support for Osama bin Laden in the Afghanistan War against the Soviet Union; and, of course, the most recent invasion of Iraq to seize its oilfields and forward position US forces for an invasion of neighboring Saudi Arabia when it is inevitably destroyed by internal civil war. And under a Grab the Oil strategy, militarization of US society will only deepen.

The reason is that a very major portion of the world’s oil is, by accident of geology, in the hands of states hostile to the US. Fully 60% percent of the world’s proven reserves of oil are in the Persian Gulf. They lie beneath Muslim countries undergoing a religious revolution that wants to return the industrial world to a pre-modern order governed by a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy. Saudi Arabia alone controls 25% of all the world’s oil, more than that of North America, South America, Europe and Africa combined. Kuwait, Iran and Iraq, each control approximately 10% of the world’s oil.

Another 15% of the world’s oil lies in the Caspian Sea region, also a dominantly Muslim region. It includes a group of post-Soviet, satellite and buffer states that lack any semblance of legal or market systems. They are extraordinarily corrupt, really just Gangster Thugocracies masquerading as countries. Think Afghanistan. Both Russia and China consider this region part of their “sphere of strategic influence” portending significant clashes for the US over coming decades.

As long as the US chooses the Grab the Oil alternative, the implications for national policy are inescapable. The combination of all these facts—fixed supply, rapid depletion, lack of alternatives, severity of consequences, and hostility of current stockholding countries—drive the US to HAVE to adopt an aggressive (pre-emptive) military posture and to carry out a nakedly colonial expropriation of resources from weaker countries around the world.

This is why the US operates some 700 military bases around the world and spends over half a trillion dollars per year on military affairs, more than all the rest of the world—its “allies” included—combined. This is why the Defense Department’s latest Quadrennial Review stated, “The US must retain the capability to send well-armed and logistically supported forces to critical points around the globe, even in the face of enemy opposition.” This is why Pentagon brass say internally that current force levels are inadequate to the strategic challenges they face and that they will have to re-instate the draft after the 2004 elections.

halva

01-11-2005, 12:09 AM

But the provocation occasioned by grabbing the oil, especially from nations ideologically hostile to the US, means that military attacks on the US and the recourse to military responses will only intensify until the US is embroiled in unending global conflict. This is the perverse genius of the Grab the Oil strategy: it comes with its own built-in escalation, its own justification for ever more militarization—without limit. It will blithely consume the entire US economy, the entire society, without being sated. It is, in homage to Orwell, Perpetual War for Perpetual Grease.

In his first released tape after 9/11, Osama bin Laden stated that he carried out the attacks for three reasons: 1) to drive US military forces from Saudi Arabia, the most sacred place of Islam; 2) to avenge the deaths of over half a million Iraqi children killed, according to UNICEF, as a result of the US-sponsored embargo of the 1990s; and, 3) to punish US sponsorship of Israeli oppression against the Palestinian people. Oil and the need to control it are critically implicated in all three reasons.

But now comes the sobering part. In response to the 9/11 attacks, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld stated that the US was engaged in “…a thirty to forty year war (!) against fundamentalist Islam.” It is the fever of War, of course, that becomes the all-purpose justification for the rollback of civil liberties. Lincoln used the Civil War to justify the suspension of habeas corpus. Roosevelt used the cover of World War II to inter hundreds of thousands of Japanese Americans. And now Bush is using the self-ratcheting “War on Terror” to effect even more sweeping, perhaps permanent rescissions of civil liberties.

Under the Patriot Act, a person can be arrested without probable cause, held indefinitely without being charged, tried without a lawyer or a jury, sentenced without the opportunity to appeal, and put to death—all without notification of…anybody. This is simply a Soviet Gulag and it has been rationalized by the hysterical over-hyping of the War on Terror. The fact that it is not yet widespread does not diminish the more important fact that it has been put in place precisely in anticipation of such procedures needing to be being carried out on a mass scale in the future.

The broader implications of the Patriot Acts go far beyond the abusive treatment of criminals or terrorists. Their portent can be glimpsed in the language used to justify them. When Attorney General John Ashcroft testified on behalf of the Act, he stated, “…those who oppose us are providing aid and comfort to the enemy.” These are carefully chosen words. “Aid and comfort to the enemy” are the words used in the Constitution to define Treason, the most fateful of crimes against the state. In other words, protest against the government—the singular right without which America would not even exist—is now being defined as trying to overthrow the government.

And by the internal logic of a global Oil Empire, this is entirely reasonable. The needs of the people of any one country must be subordinated to the larger agenda of Empire itself. This is what the Romans learned in 27 B.C. when Augustus proclaimed himself Emperor. It was the end of the Roman Republic and the disappearance of representative government on earth for almost 1,700 years, until the English Civil Wars in the 1600s. That is the reality we are confronting today—offering up our democracy in propitiation to an Empire for Oil. It will be a fateful, irreversible decision.

Returning to Pirsig’s metaphor, the choice of a Grab the Oil strategy is the equivalent of the monkey holding onto the handful of food, remaining trapped by the coconut. It is an ironclad guarantee of escalating global conflict, isolation of the US in the world, unremitting attacks on the US by those whose oil is being expropriated and whose societies are being dominated, the militarization of the US economy, the irreversible rescission of civil liberties, and the eventual extinguishment of American democracy itself. It is the conscious, self-inflicted consignment to political and economic death.

But the coconut metaphor, remember, involves a choice—food or freedom. What, then, is the alternative, the letting go of the paltry handful of food in conscious preference for the life of continued freedom?

The alternative to Grab the Oil is to dispense with the hobbling dependency on oil itself and to quickly wean the country off of it. Call it the path of Energy Reconfiguration. It is to declare a modern day Manhattan Project aimed at minimizing the draw down in the world’s finite stocks of oil, extending their life, and mitigating the calamity inherent in their rapid exhaustion. It means building a physical infrastructure to the economy that is based on an alternative to oil. And it means doing this, not unilaterally or militarily as the US is doing now, but in peaceful partnership with other countries of the world, the other counties in our shared global lifeboat that are also threatened by the end of oil.

In more specific terms, energy reconfiguration means retrofitting all of the nation’s buildings, both commercial and residential, to double their energy efficiency. It means a crash program to shift the transportation system—cars, trucks—to a basis that uses perhaps half as much oil per year. This is well within reach of current technology. Energy Reconfiguration means using biotechnology to develop crops that require much less fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides and machinery to harvest. It means refitting industrial and commercial processes—lighting, heating, appliances, automation, etc.—so that they, too, consume far less energy than they do today. It means increasing efficiency, reducing consumption, and building sustainable, long-term alternatives in every arena in which the economy uses oil.

Such a program would return incalculable benefits to national security, the economy, and to the environment.

In terms of national security, Energy Reconfiguration greatly reduces the county’s susceptibility to oil blackmail. It reduces the need for provocative adventurism into foreign countries in pursuit of oil. As such, it reduces the incentive for terrorism against the US. And by reducing such threats, it reduces the need for a sprawling, expensive military abroad and a repressive police state at home. Savings in military costs—perhaps on the order of hundreds of billions of dollars a year—could well pay for such a program. The saving of democracy, of course, is priceless.

The economic benefits are at least equally impressive. By reducing energy imports, the US would reduce its hemorrhaging trade deficit and the mortgaging of the nation’s future that such borrowing implies. A national corps of workers set to retrofitting the nation’s homes and businesses for energy efficiency would address employment problems for decades in a way that could not be outsourced to Mexico or India or China. And a more efficient industrial infrastructure would make all goods made in America more competitive with those made abroad. In all of these ways, Energy Reconfiguration raises, not lowers, the average standard of living while increasing the resilience of the economy as a whole.

Energy Reconfiguration also delivers enormous—perhaps incalculable—benefits to the environment. By reducing energy intensity, it reduces the impact on the biotic carrying systems of any level of economic activity. Global warming may be the single most potent threat to global stability today. A recently leaked Pentagon report predicted that rapid climate change may well set off global competition for food and water supplies and, in the worst scenarios, spark nuclear war. If the US did no more than change from being the most energy inefficient economy in the industrial world to being of only average efficiency, it would dramatically slow the environmental destruction that hangs like a sword over the entire world.

Are there any precedents for such an ambitious vision? In the 1980s China adopted a nationwide energy efficiency program. Within a decade, overall energy intensity fell by 50% while economic growth led the developing world. Also in the 1980s, Denmark began a crash program in wind-generated electricity. Today, wind provides 10% of Denmark’s electricity while Denmark makes 60% of all the wind turbines sold in the world. India’s Renewable Energy Development Agency used a similar set of programs beginning in 1987 to reduce oil based electricity usage. Today, India is the largest user of photovoltaic systems in the world.

Even within the US there are ample precedents for optimism. The US economy was 42% more energy efficient in 2000 than it was in the 1970s when the Arab oil embargoes shocked the country into action. Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAF?) standards more than doubled the average mileage of US automobiles between 1975 and 1985 before being effectively abandoned in the late 1980s. The National Research Council has reported that efficiency programs sponsored by the Department of Energy returned $20 for every $1 invested, making them arguably one of the best investments in the economy even before a change in national energy strategy.

We should harbor no illusions, however, that adopting such a strategy will be easy. The military and energy industries in which the Bush family is so heavily invested will vigorously resist such a policy. And the energy bill now making its way through Congress is nothing so much as a testament to the death grip the energy industry holds on the American people. It provides tens of billions of dollars of subsidies and giveaways to energy companies while actually encouraging more intensive energy use. As the poster boy of these leviathans, President Bush expressed their sentiments best: “We need an energy policy that encourages consumption.” What more need be said?

halva

01-11-2005, 12:10 AM

In the end, the choice of these two alternatives—Grab the Oil or Energy Reconfiguration—is much bigger than oil alone. It is a choice about the fundamental ethos and, in fact, the very nature of the country. Most immediately, it is about democracy versus empire. In economic terms, it is about prosperity or poverty. In engineering terms, it is a matter of efficiency over waste. In moral terms this is the choice of sufficiency or gluttony. From the standpoint of the environment, it is a preference for stewardship over continued predation. In the ways the US deals with other countries it is the choice of co-operation versus dominance. And in spiritual terms, it is the choice of hope, freedom and purpose over fear, dependency and despair. In this sense, this is truly the decision that will define the future of America and perhaps the world.

A final word on Pirsig’s monkey. The monkey is doomed but not tragic. For the monkey cannot really comprehend the fateful implications of its choice: that its greed assures its doom. In the case of people and a country, however, that is not the case. It is no accident that President Bush has not asked any sacrifices of the country for his War on Terror. That is part of the seduction, like the candy a drug pusher uses to lure an unsuspecting child.

But we cannot, like the monkey, claim to be unaware of the choice we are making. Awareness of such choices is part of the burden of mature citizenship. Nor can we feign ignorance of the consequences. Simply put, our present course will cost us our country. And our doom will be compounded by incalculable tragedy and what Lincoln once called “the last best hope for mankind” will, indeed, perish from this earth. Unless, that is, we find the vision, the wisdom and the courage to let go that handful of paltry treats and choose freedom instead.

Robert Freeman writes about economics and education. He can be reached at robertfreeman10@yahoo.com.

halva

01-11-2005, 12:29 AM

http://acehnet.tripod.com/kearney.htm

Autonomy Not Enough for Aceh?
by Marianne Kearney, The Straits Times - Singapore , March 27, 1999

JAKARTA -- For the first time, President B.J. Habibie made a long-awaited visit to the troubled province of Aceh yesterday. The visit comes hot on the heels of the submission of Aceh's autonomy proposal to Jakarta, and increasing demands for a referendum. Along Aceh's east coast, on the northern tip of Sumatra, the small towns and cities have already declared their views on Aceh's autonomy proposal. A white banner outside Lhokseumawe declares: "War is not what we want, a referendum is what we demand." Another banner in a small town north of Siglie says: "We supports the students' conference on a referendum." Clearly, an autonomy proposal is not enough for some Acehnese.

At the heart of the demand for a referendum is the question of how Aceh's considerable oil, gas and forestry resources would be distributed if Aceh gains autonomy. In the last 30 years, all profits made by the oil, gas and forestry industries, estimated at US$2.1 billion (S$3.63 billion) annually from gas alone, have gone straight to Jakarta, with a tiny 1.6 per cent returned to Aceh.

Until recently, the Acehnese parliament did not even know how much money was made from Aceh's resources, as the state-owned oil and gas companies refused to release any information on their profits.

The last 30 years of being treated like a colonial outpost of Jakarta have led many Acehnese to question why Aceh should continue to be a part of Indonesia. The 1989-98 military operation, which suppressed the small separatist movement brutally, killing and torturing thousands of civilians, only increased Acehnese resentment at having their resources milked so effectively.

Some critics think Jakarta should be asked if Acehnese are still a part of Indonesia or if they are considered as enemies. "If we are Jakarta's enemies don't ask us to be a part of Indonesia. If we are not Jakarta's enemies, they should treat us like a brother," says Dr Teuku Iskandar, the dean of economics at Syiah Kuala University. Even Aceh's governor, Mr Syamsuddin Mahmud, until recently favoured greater separation from Java. He raised the possibility of Aceh becoming a federated state of Indonesia in a television interview last month, but has since backtracked. Instead, he insists now that autonomy is the best option. He says that if the Acehnese government were able to tap into Aceh's resources, receiving a percentage of the profits directly from the lucrative oil, gas, gold and forestry industries, local government would be able to direct its own programmes. Dr Iskandar, a member of the governor's team examining what Aceh produces, suggests that the regional government should receive 55 per cent of profits made by oil and gas.

Many Acehnese do not believe that the central government would ever deliver a fair share of the profits from their resources. Dr Hasballah M. Saad, a politician, said the Acehnese fear that the autonomy plan will not be very different from the "istemewa" (special) status granted to Aceh in the 1950s "which in fact meant nothing, it was all talk". This special status was granted as recognition for the role Aceh played in fighting the Dutch during the independence war.

Mr Rizman Rachman, from the environmental organisation, Wahli, voiced this disillusionment with Jakarta when he dismissed the prospect of a new coalition government, even under the pro-federation opposition leader Amien Rais, sharing resources equitably with Aceh. He thinks the new government would still be Java-centric and dominated by the armed forces, which have guaranteed seats.

Riding on the tide of discontent created by military operations in January and February, the students' campaign for a referendum has been gaining ground. Students have been educating residents in eastern Aceh and calling for a boycott of the June national elections, if Jakarta refuses to promise to give Aceh a significantly larger share of profits from Aceh's natural resources.

On Monday, 200 Acehnese students in central Jakarta demanded that the government commit to a referendum before the elections. Last week, 18 students began a hunger strike outside the regional military headquarters in Aceh's capital, Banda Aceh, also demanding a referendum.

Much depends on what Dr Habibie says and does during his Aceh visit. Many Acehnese, said Dr Hasballah Saad, would be looking for an indication of government sympathy. "If it is to respond to the last 10 years in Aceh, then okay. But if there is no rehabilitation offered for the victims of the military operation, then people will be disappointed," he said.

However, if Dr Habibie had meant to promote a conciliatory image, he sent a mixed message to Banda Aceh. The deployment of 3,000 additional troops in Banda Aceh for his one-day visit has provoked a reaction from student groups angered at what they see as an unnecessarily high number of troops.

Mr Feisal Hadi of Wahli says Acehnese are concerned that if the troops are from outside Aceh, they might remain even after Dr Habibie's visit. As Mr Maimul Fidar a human-rights campaigner, said: "The Acehnese and Abri hate each other." Abri refers to the Indonesian armed forces. The Acehnese have been traumatised by he nine-year military operation, and each new incident further increases resentment towards Jakarta. The search for the rebels who killed seven soldiers in January, and the incident in February, where soldiers opened fire on a gathering at a mosque, served only to convince Acehnese that little has changed.

Although the military operation, known as Operasi Merah, ended officially in the first week of February, local human-rights lawyers say non-local soldiers are still patrolling the streets. Some residents report that even the dreaded Kopassus soldiers, renowned for their ruthlessness during the previous military operation, have returned, dressed in local military uniforms.

A journalist from a local newspaper, Serambi, says an additional 10 soldiers have been installed in every military post, and that more soldiers arrive each week, providing an extra 1,000 soldiers for the region.

Significantly, Dr Habibie would not be visiting Lhokseumawe, or Pidie, on the eastern coast, where the highest fatalities from the military operation occurred. Security reasons have been cited, but some commentators say he is avoiding local anger. Operasi Merah seems to have stirred support for the disorganised separatist movement. Mr Humam Hamid, a social researcher who documented much of the military's human-rights abuses, estimates that 90 per cent of villagers had little idea about the separatist movement before the military operation, but now, "since their husbands and family have been killed, they support Aceh Merdeka". Mr Suliaman Yacob, from a small rice-farming village in Pidie, who was tortured during the military operation for supporting the separatist movement, still distrusts the Indonesian government. He says autonomy is not enough, "although other people are demanding a referendum, Aceh must be free, because ever since 1977, Aceh has not been taken seriously".

In this small village of 300, where four people were killed during the military operation, the local village leader, Mr Abdullah David, was also tortured, only last year, for suspected involvement in the seperatist movement. Last August, at the time the military was withdrawing from Aceh, he was taken by soldiers to the military hospital in Medan and given minimal treatment to heal his useless hands and the long scars on his back.

Afterwards, he was warned not to tell anyone he had been tortured and not to return to Aceh until the situation improved, meaning he should wait until human-rights groups stopped investigations into the military operation.

"It is as if they think we can just forget the torture, as if it never happened," he said.

[The writer, who reports for Australian newspapers from Jakarta, was in Aceh recently where she interviewed the province's governor and other people. She contributed this article to The Straits Times.]

jayreynolds

01-11-2005, 04:19 AM

America has its own hand in a coconut, one that may doom it just as surely as the monkey. That coconut is its dependence on cheap oil in a world where oil will soon come to an end. .

There you go with that scaremongering again, Wayne.
here is surely part of the answer, courtesy biotech :
http://www.lucatechnologies.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=home

Turns out we can turn coal into usable fuel in-place, without mining, creating methane gas for fuel in real time.

Trying to scare people into doing something might work for prissy little girls, but for men of science and reason you've got to do better than telling ghost stories.

gaiacomm

01-11-2005, 09:01 AM

Interesting...but can we get some closure. What is the "bottom line" to Chemtrails and other Wayne data?

Yaak

01-11-2005, 10:55 AM

Interesting...but can we get some closure. What is the "bottom line" to Chemtrails and other Wayne data?
Yes, Wayne, what is your point, or are you just doing a C/P job to SPAM the board?

halva

01-11-2005, 10:56 AM

This is an opening rather than a closing.

I detect among Peak Oil activists a snobbery towards climate change very similar to the snobbery that the 'revolutionary' Marxist far left once showed towards the often Christian and pacifist people that comprised the anti-nuclear-weapons movement.

Peak Oil theorists see themselves as something of an elite by contrast with the brainwashed masses agitating around climate change at the behest of the United Nations.

But just as the 'revolutionary Marxists' ultimately turned out to be no smarter than the Christians and pacifists so today the Peak Oil people who don't see the relevance of supporting Kyoto and look down their noses at anyone who assumes anything other than that 'Kyoto is doomed to failure' are not any smarter than the most sheepish climate change demonstrator.

Climate change is more immediate than Peak Oil. It may well be true that switching to coal-based technologies can prolong the lifetime of fossil-fuel burning for a time. And the demands of Peak Oil and climate change activism are the same: disengagement from reliance on non-renewable energy sources. There is no justification for this supercilious attitude.

whitemajikman

01-11-2005, 11:46 AM

Interesting...but can we get some closure. What is the "bottom line" to Chemtrails and other Wayne data?

The Bottom Line is Waynes Data is purely an extension of Waynes warped vision of change..........

Wayne is stuck in his own self-made paradigm.........

his whole vision is influenced by Conspiracy theory ,Socialist philosophy, Anti-Government paranoia,and Radical Environmentalism.........

Wayne Hall is Addicted to fighting Authority.........and has been fighting authority most of his life.........which is a direct result of the many influences I have stated.

And Which has led him down the current road he now travels and contributes too.......

A road full of Deception And FALSE Propaganda and sometimes outright lunacy.....

Wayne cares very little that his actions have consequences,for when he is cornered he tends to bury his head in the sand and deny that he has been beaten ,That is Why he never really debates anything he feels passionately about, but instead feels content with posting and spreading false propaganda .

It's much safer to his EGO and his vision of himself to deny defeat and to deny that what he is doing is not a NOBLE CAUSE but is clearly part of the problem.........

That is why Wayne has never gotten the results he so desires,because he is not willing to look deep with-in himself or even step back and take a full accounting of what he has become over the years......

His Ego,Pride and addiction to fighting authority always derail His better judgement and logical reasoning.........and more importantly has eroded his ethics to non-existent status........

If you disagree ,reread the thread in it's entirety.......

The Entire Thread is a testimony to the fact that waynes data is an extention of WAYNE the Man and the many elements that have influenced him since childhood.......

But Wayne needs to realize that the reality of the situation is thusly.........

When you fight Authority ...........Authority in the end always Wins........

it may not appear to at first...........but given time ......the end result is always the same.......

WMM

whitemajikman

01-11-2005, 11:54 AM

This is an opening rather than a closing.

I detect among Peak Oil activists a snobbery towards climate change very similar to the snobbery that the 'revolutionary' Marxist far left once showed towards the often Christian and pacifist people that comprised the anti-nuclear-weapons movement.

Peak Oil theorists see themselves as something of an elite by contrast with the brainwashed masses agitating around climate change at the behest of the United Nations.

But just as the 'revolutionary Marxists' ultimately turned out to be no smarter than the Christians and pacifists so today the Peak Oil people who don't see the relevance of supporting Kyoto and look down their noses at anyone who assumes anything other than that 'Kyoto is doomed to failure' are not any smarter than the most sheepish climate change demonstrator.

Climate change is more immediate than Peak Oil. It may well be true that switching to coal-based technologies can prolong the lifetime of fossil-fuel burning for a time. And the demands of Peak Oil and climate change activism are the same: disengagement from reliance on non-renewable energe sources. There is no justification for this supercilious attitude.

No this is a Subject Change ..........Because your last Gambit Failed miserably.......

Nothing like the old Switcharoo in mid thread to try and deflect scrutiny from your failures .......

Ain't that right Wayne......

WMM

halva

01-11-2005, 02:34 PM

Michael Crichton's Caltech Michelin lecture included an admirable passage:

"Sooner or later, we must form an independent research institute in this country. It must be funded by industry, by government, and by private philanthropy, both individuals and trusts. The money must be pooled, so that investigators do not know who is paying them. The institute must fund more than one team to do research in a particular area, and the verification of results will be a foregone requirement: teams will know their results will be checked by other groups. In many cases, those who decide how to gather the data will not gather it, and those who gather the data will not analyze it."

Ideas like this could only be implemented as general policy following a comprehensive defeat of ideologues of the Crichton type and those funding them.

whitemajikman

01-11-2005, 04:10 PM

Michael Crichton's Caltech Michelin lecture included an admirable passage:

"Sooner or later, we must form an independent research institute in this country. It must be funded by industry, by government, and by private philanthropy, both individuals and trusts. The money must be pooled, so that investigators do not know who is paying them. The institute must fund more than one team to do research in a particular area, and the verification of results will be a foregone requirement: teams will know their results will be checked by other groups. In many cases, those who decide how to gather the data will not gather it, and those who gather the data will not analyze it."

Ideas like this could only be implemented as general policy following a decisive defeat of ideologues of the Crichton type and those funding him.

What TYPE is Crichton.......?

And who is exactly financing him ........?

WMM

The Shadow

01-12-2005, 12:15 AM

jayreynolds

01-12-2005, 04:22 AM

Wayne is stuck in his own self-made paradigm.........his whole vision is influenced by Conspiracy theory ,Socialist philosophy, Anti-Government paranoia,and Radical Environmentalism.........

And Which has led him down the current road he now travels and contributes too.......
A road full of Deception And FALSE Propaganda and sometimes outright lunacy.....

Wayne cares very little that his actions have consequences,for when he is cornered he tends to bury his head in the sand and deny that he has been beaten ,That is Why he never really debates anything he feels passionately about, but instead feels content with posting and spreading false propaganda .

It's much safer to his EGO and his vision of himself to deny defeat and to deny that what he is doing is not a NOBLE CAUSE but is clearly part of the problem.........

That is why Wayne has never gotten the results he so desires,because he is not willing to look deep with-in himself or even step back and take a full accounting of what he has become over the years......

His Ego,Pride and addiction to fighting authority always derail His better judgement and logical reasoning.........and more importantly has eroded his ethics to non-existent status........

This part is exactly correct.

jayreynolds

01-12-2005, 04:24 AM

]My my my... What happened to all those photographs of the Yaak Attack @ CTC (http://p090.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails22884frm1.showMessage?topic ID=2815.topic)? It seems like quite a ruckus has erupted over there. Did their exposure gain you the notoriety you sought, Yaakass? Jayhole must be absolutely livid over his failure to call my bluff!
Mission Accomplished!

You're not making any sense now, Diane.

gaiacomm

01-12-2005, 07:52 AM

Interesting.

Yaak

01-12-2005, 09:37 AM

My my my... What happened to all those photographs of the Yaak Attack @ CTC (http://p090.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails22884frm1.showMessage?topic ID=2815.topic)? It seems like quite a ruckus has erupted over there. Did their exposure gain you the notoriety you sought, Yaakass? Jayhole must be absolutely livid over his failure to call my bluff!

Mission Accomplished!!!

Love,
"Diane"

I took the photographs down, "Diane." They were intended for a select group of people, not the good folks at the Image Shack Forum. You, obviously, are the type of person that shows porno to school children. As a side benefit, doing so ruffed the feathers of an associate of yours: another whiny, liberal sissy with the screen name Largemark. It was good for a 2 page flame-fest. Thanx!

The only mission you accomplished was to amuse us. Thank you for the entertainment, "Diane." Don't let yourself become a stranger. :D

halva

01-12-2005, 11:08 AM

Interesting...but can we get some closure. What is the "bottom line" to Chemtrails and other Wayne data?

To assert - just like that - that the tsunami stands to the arrival of US troops in oil-rich Aceh in the same relationship as the destruction of the World Trade Center to the arrival of US troops in oil-rich Iraq and that the tsunami was triggered by H.A.A.R.P. just as 9/11 was triggered by Bush, Cheney or whoever, is to make a string of currently unprovable assertions.

That all these events are motivated by a United States governmental policy of attempting to establish direct control over all the world's oil resources is another unprovable assertion, though perhaps at a qualitatively higher level of plausibility.

Having ceased to make unprovable assertions on this thread about aerosol spraying from aircraft, I am not proposing to make similarly unprovable assertions about 9/11 or about tsounamis and H.A.A.R.P..

'Chemtrails', and these other debates, are not subjects for politics-loaded public forums. They are in the first instance a matter for discussion between scientists whose sense of professional integrity is offended by the politicisation of science. Non-scientists can perhaps trigger or initiate the debates, but the hard intellectual work has to be left to scientists.

Political activists of all kinds, including NGO Greenpeace-type activists are ill-equipped for facing issues like 'chemtrails', precisely because their orientation to science is political.

whitemajikman

01-12-2005, 12:31 PM

To assert - just like that - that the tsunami stands to the arrival of US troops in oil-rich Aceh in the same relationship as the destruction of the World Trade Center to the arrival of US troops in oil-rich Iraq and that the tsunami was triggered by H.A.A.R.P. just as 9/11 was triggered by Bush, Cheney or whoever, is to make a string of currently unprovable assertions.

That all these events are motivated by a United States governmental policy of attempting to establish direct control over all the world's oil resources is another unprovable assertion, though perhaps at a qualitatively higher level of plausibility.

Having ceased to make unprovable assertions on this thread about aerosol spraying from aircraft, I am not proposing to make similarly unprovable assertions about 9/11 or about tsounamis and H.A.A.R.P..

'Chemtrails', and these other debates, are not subjects for politics-loaded public forums. They are in the first instance a matter for discussion between scientists whose sense of professional integrity is offended by the politicisation of science. Non-scientists can perhaps trigger or initiate the debates, but the hard intellectual work has to be left to scientists.

Political activists of all kinds, including NGO Greenpeace-type activists are ill-equipped for facing issues like 'chemtrails', precisely because their orientation to science is political.

WAYNE Is that your little way of saying UNCLE.........?

WMM

Yaak

01-12-2005, 02:06 PM

WAYNE Is that your little way of saying UNCLE.........?

WMM
That is the way I interpret his post. He was very decent about it, too. My compliments on a good try, Wayne (500+ pages of trying). It takes a real man or woman to admit defeat. Deborah conceded, then Jim Phelps, now Wayne.

Good show, everybody.:D

The End

gaiacomm

01-12-2005, 02:36 PM

Interesting.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-12-2005, 03:21 PM

Nah---just the crazy inmates escaped from the lock-up ward again.

IMHO,
is

gaiacomm

01-12-2005, 03:25 PM

Nah---just the crazy inmates escaped from the lock-up ward again.

IMHO,
is

Lets round them up and put them back...and yes this time make sure they take their meds this time. Oh yes make sure Oprah is on to keep them in a trance!

Insurrectionchemistry

01-12-2005, 03:44 PM

halva

01-12-2005, 03:50 PM

Pro-Bush, anti-Bush, it's all the same here anyway. Look at the reception Bryce got.

gaiacomm

01-12-2005, 04:00 PM

Gaia,

You been doing those secret handshakes or slipping the secret password in the shower again? What is with all this Pro-Bush and other non-sense that seems to be all over the place in Arianna land, coming from U?

IMHO,
is

Well, you see I have had the liberty to communicate with his aides and others that know him privately and I now have a better understanding of the Man!

stuart_allsop

01-12-2005, 05:06 PM

Well, you see I have had the liberty to communicate with his aides ...Let me see if I can guess how you communicated with Bush's aides: I'd say that you used a 4G Helix protocol driven submarine satellite antenna, over your wireless fiber-optic HAARP link, transmitting a 1-27 Hz carrier modulated with a 1-29 Terra Hz. signal that you bounced off the Oak Ridge modified ionospheric ground plane waveguide, using over-the-horizon highly directional transverso-longitudinal vecto-scalar waves, with a transmitter output of 1-27 nanowatts but plasma-multiplied by secret Tesla based zero point energy technology into about 1-29 terrawatts of megajoule non-isotropic esoteric incoherent orgone aura crystal power, that accidently triggered an earthquake and tsunami, which is just what Bush wanted anyway, and you invented it all yourself in your meditation-induced out-of-body sleep, so they fired you.

Did I get that right, Judah?

On a scale of 1 to 10, how did I do?

gaiacomm

01-12-2005, 05:11 PM

Let me see if I can guess how you communicated with Bush's aides: I'd say that you used a 4G Helix protocol driven submarine satellite antenna, over your wireless fiber-optic HAARP link, transmitting a 1-27 Hz carrier modulated with a 1-29 Terra Hz. signal that you bounced off the Oak Ridge modified ionospheric ground plane waveguide, using over-the-horizon highly directional transverso-longitudinal vecto-scalar waves, with a transmitter output of 1-27 nanowatts but plasma-multiplied by secret Tesla based zero point energy technology into about 1-29 terrawatts of megajoule non-isotropic esoteric incoherent orgone aura crystal power, that accidently triggered an earthquake and tsunami, which is just what Bush wanted anyway, and you invented it all yourself in your meditation-induced out-of-body sleep, so they fired you.

Did I get that right, Judah?

On a scale of 1 to 10, how did I do?

You got to be kidding?

gaiacomm

01-12-2005, 05:13 PM

You may not get to speak with the President but if persistent you can get to his aides and others.

jayreynolds

01-12-2005, 06:07 PM

WAYNE Is that your little way of saying UNCLE.........?WMM

No, I didn't give him permission to leave, yet.
In fact, he can check out if he likes, but he can never leave.

Now that it's broken 500 pages, this makes the longest running chemtrails thread in history.
I am determined to run it up to 1000 pages so that the record will be secure for all time.

Wayne, prepare yourself for turbulence.

gaiacomm

01-12-2005, 06:09 PM

No, I didn't give him permission to leave, yet.
In fact, he can check out if he likes, but he can never leave.

Now that it's broken 500 pages, this makes the longest running chemtrails thread in history.
I am determined to run it up to 1000 pages so that the record will be secure for all time.

Wayne, prepare yourself for turbulence.

JR and Company are back by popular demand!

Yaak

01-12-2005, 06:18 PM

Nah---just the crazy inmates escaped from the lock-up ward again.

IMHO,
is
Don't worry Folks. We'll have Jimmy locked up again very soon

Yaak

01-12-2005, 06:21 PM

whitemajikman

01-12-2005, 06:23 PM

Yaak

01-12-2005, 06:24 PM

You may not get to speak with the President but if persistent you can get to his aides and others.

Especially the "others." Yup, sending crazy ideas and threats to the President will get you an audience with those "others" everytime.:D

gaiacomm

01-12-2005, 06:26 PM

Especially the "others." Yup, sending crazy ideas and threats to the President will get you an audience with those "others" everytime.:D

Yes, it sure will!

Insurrectionchemistry

01-12-2005, 07:12 PM

Interesting-----Gaia becomes a neocon. Guess that means you lost 9/10 of your brain in Israel somewhere.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/bushjews.html

IMHO,
is

Yaak

01-12-2005, 07:13 PM

http://www.registerguard.com/news/2005/01/10/a1.cgstoves.0110.html

January 10, 2005

Project Cooking Up Stoves For The Poor By Karen McCowan
The Register-Guard

COTTAGE GROVE - The test kitchen at Aprovecho Research Center west of here looks nothing like that of television chef Emeril.

For starters, tester Jeremy Roth is wearing what looks like a gas mask. And he's testing cooking stoves, not recipes: The World Food Program has commissioned Aprovecho to build fuel-efficient, low-polluting cooking stoves fashioned from the very tin cans in which food aid is delivered.

The "refugee stove project" should help tens of thousands of the world's poorest people - including Indonesians whose homes were swept away by the Indian Ocean tsunami - build free stoves to cook relief shipment staples such as rice and lentils.

And it should protect their health in the process, project director Dean Still said.

Aprovecho Research Center's stove designs make use of items such as cans that transport relief supplies.

Photos: Chris Pietsch / The Register-Guard

"This is what we love to do here at Aprovecho," he said. "It's very rewarding to work improving the quality of life for poor folks across the globe ... With a little guidance, stoves are a technology that they can produce and therefore they can maintain."

The tin can stoves will build on the nonprofit organization's 25-year history helping Third World residents improve upon open cooking fires. Still and his colleagues have incorporated Aprovecho's "rocket elbow" stove design in a prototype using two actual, empty 5-gallon World Food Program cooking oil cans. One is cut up and fashioned into an L-shaped fire chamber and minichimney, which is placed inside the other can and surrounded by insulating wood ash.

But the stoves also will benefit from Aprovecho's recent $77,567 grant from the Shell Foundation to test the emissions and efficiency of 20 relief stoves already in use. Health concerns are driving the research, conducted for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency under the United Nations Partnership for Clean Indoor Air.

Which gets us back to the mask worn by Roth. It is actually attached to a hose delivering fresh air from outside the test kitchen, which has no chimney to simulate the actual conditions endured every day by the world's poorest cooks and their families.

Inhalation of the particulate matter in cooking fires is linked to asthma and cancer - not to mention carbon monoxide poisoning because of fires in closed spaces. The latter poses a threat even when not enough gas is present to cause death - daily exposure has been likened to smoking five packs of cigarettes a day, Still said.

"The United Nations estimates that 2 billion people a day are still cooking with open fires," he said. "Respiratory disease is the fifth-leading cause of death in the developing world, and 1.6 million people per year die from breathing wood smoke."

Now that Aprovecho researchers are scientifically evaluating cooking fire emissions, they don't find those numbers surprising.

"The Murdoch Foundation of Portland gave us $25,000 to purchase this equipment, which analyzes gaseous emissions and particulates," Still said. "We will use that data to write a book for the EPA, funded by Shell, on how 20 stoves used around the world function."

To test each stove, the researchers build a fire with a precise amount of wood beneath a hood that captures smoke as they boil 5 liters of water. A computer spits out a graph showing second-by-second levels of particulates and carbon monoxide.

The Aprovecho researchers are delighted by the data on their tin can prototype.

"It turns out to be better than a lot of more sophisticated models," Still said. "Isn't that cool?"

Compared to an open fire, the can stoves slash fuel consumption, carbon monoxide levels and particulate emissions about 50 percent. Still credits the rocket elbow system developed by Aprovecho technology director Larry Winiarski.

Aprovecho aims to finish the project by spring. It will culminate in prototypes and 5,000 "how-to" booklets going out to World Food Program distribution centers in 160 countries.

Cooking is necessary for most of the 4.9 million tons of food the program distributes to more than 100 million people, said Caroline Hurford, a Rome-based spokeswoman. Among likely beneficiaries of the new stove, she said, will be those homeless in the wake of the Dec. 26 tsunami that wiped out entire villages in South Asia.

"Especially in Indonesia, where thousands have lost so much, including their cooking facilities," she said.</I>

Yaak

01-12-2005, 07:36 PM

I have one of these and endorse it.
You can cook a meal with a few twigs.
I use a rechargable battery and recharge it with a solar charger.
A handy person can easily make a stove similar to this one.

This cook stove is gentle on Mother Nature.

http://www.zzstove.com/sierra.html

The lightweight SIERRA stove
works like a blacksmith's forge.The SIERRA stove is ideal for backpackers, distance bikers, back country horsemen and other campers looking for an extremely lightweight, dependable and powerful stove. The SIERRA is an excellent choice for Boy Scouts, providing a safe and simple way to learn the skills of campfire cooking. The SIERRA burns twigs, bark, pine cones and other woods readily available around a campsite, as well as charcoal and other solid fuels. The SIERRA incorporates an adjustable speed fan, creating a forced ventilation system that provides intense heat and efficient burning. The SIERRA weighs only 1 lb yet creates up to 18,000 BTU/hr, enough heat to boil a quart of water in four minutes.

A single "AA" battery powers the fan for 6 hours. The optional "D" CELL POWER SUPPLY provides over 35 hours of cooking time.

The SIERRA SET includes a polished stainless steel kettle with frying pan cover, a wrap around windshield for faster and more efficient cooking, a cross grate for burning long sticks, tongs, a sample of ZIP FIRES and a nylon carry sack. The entire SIERRA SET weighs just 2 lbs.

Yaak

01-12-2005, 07:40 PM

Here is a larger stove by the same people:

http://www.zzstove.com/eagle.html

The EAGLE stove is the ideal solid fuel, family cookout stove. Whether camping, having a backyard barbecue, or enjoying an evening fire outside your RV, the EAGLE will provide a powerful cooking fire, warmth on a cool evening and the enjoyable ambiance of a natural fire. The EAGLE burns wood, charcoal, pine cones or other solid fuels. The EAGLE is intended for outdoor use and is safer than a gas burning stove, providing a "contained fire" where open fires are not permitted. An adjustable speed fan circulates incoming air around the stove walls, preheating the air and creating a blast furnace effect to efficiently burn the fuel. The EAGLE can deliver over 35,000 BTU/hr - enough heat to boil water by the gallon. The adjustable speed fan and damper allow complete control over the heat output of the stove.
A single "D" cell provides over 35 hours of cooking time. Even without the fan, the EAGLE has a strong natural draft to insure excellent burning, making it an excellent disaster preparedness choice. The EAGLE's rugged yet simple design insures years of trouble free use. For daily use applications, the inner liner can be easily replaced.

The EAGLE weighs only 8 lbs and is 12" x 10" x 12" tall.

The EAGLE stove is a safe and contained way to
teach the precautions and pleasures of a campfire.The EAGLE comes with a one-year repair or replacement guarantee and a 30-day complete satisfaction guarantee.

Yaak

01-12-2005, 08:13 PM

Stop fooling with Mother Nature and build or buy a solar cooker / oven.

Make your own from a cardboard box and aluminum foil or buy one already made.

----------------------------------------

This is an example of a prefabricated solar cooker manufacturer. There are many.

Sun Ovens International

http://www.sunoven.com/ (http://www.sunoven.com/)

----------------------------------------

Solar Cooker Plans
26 different plans including The Aprovecho Rocket Stove (http://www.efn.org/~apro/AT/atrocketpage.html) in the article 3 posts back.

http://solarcooking.org/plans.htm (http://solarcooking.org/plans.htm)

----------------------------------------

There must be at least one set of plans included there that appeals to you greenie-weenies. Pry your whining, lazy selves from behind your computer monitors and build solar cookers for poor families. Either that or wait for the UN to do it and tax you for it.

stuart_allsop

01-12-2005, 08:25 PM

You got to be kidding?Kidding? Why? I am absolutely just as ead serious as Gaiacomm International is with their claims. Most of what I said I quoted directly from their own web site, so it MUST be true, right? :)

stuart_allsop

01-12-2005, 08:28 PM

stuart_allsop

01-12-2005, 08:34 PM

Do you mean those chembusters actually work?Actually, Yaak, they really do work, exactly as designed! They really do suck down all that evil orgreenbackone energy right out of the cumuls walletus of the gullible chemmies, and syphon it directly into the secret reservoirs of the inventors, where it can be disposed of safely. So they function exactly as planned. Work like a charm, every time. In fact, they work kind of like 4G Helix protocol wireless fiber-optic over-the-horizon scalar HAARP trasnmitters. It's the exact same principle of operation.

Yaak

01-12-2005, 08:39 PM

How many chemmie / greenie-weenie / fools of Mother Nature type hypocrites are left posting here? Two? Just Wayne and Jim?

Tell us Jim and Wayne, do you use rechargable batteries, and if not, why not?

Here is the one I use to charge my "AA" and "AAA" batteries, available at many places including REI and http://www.global-merchants.com/home/4aachgr.htm

I, also, have one like the following, except with a built-in light meter. There is no excuse for buying disposable batteries. A quick Internet search will yield many styles of battery chargers.

You can buy battery chargers that plug into your home electrical outlets, too. For those of you with electronic cameras, rechargable batteries are, by far, the most economical.

halva

01-12-2005, 09:09 PM

JR and Company are back by popular demand!

Now that Deborah has been driven away and I don't have to co-ordinate my strategy with hers, now that I have ignore-listed the debunkers (and competitive ego-tripping 'allies' like Shadow) and don't have to read their ravings, there is no reason for me to confine myself to the subject of climate change and to make relatively innocuous postings.

In fact, I can make controversial postings, and I think I will.

Not my own compositions, of course. I don't write for the entertainment of Raynolds and company.

No. Cut and paste. Then we will see who it is that is trapped here.

Yaak

01-12-2005, 09:15 PM

New plastic can better convert solar energy

Canadian Press

TORONTO — Researchers at the University of Toronto have invented an infrared-sensitive material that's five times more efficient at turning the sun's power into electrical energy than current methods.
The discovery could lead to shirts and sweaters capable of recharging our cellphones and other wireless devices, said Ted Sargent, professor of electrical and computer engineering at the university.

Sargent and other researchers combined specially-designed minute particles called quantum dots, three to four nanometres across, with a polymer to make a plastic that can detect energy in the infrared.
Infrared light is not visible to the naked eye but it is what most remote controls emit, in small amounts, to control devices such as TVs and DVD players.

It also contains a huge untapped resource -- despite the surge in popularity of solar cells in the 1990s, we still miss half of the sun's power, Sargent said.

"In fact, there's enough power from the sun hitting the Earth every day to supply all the world's needs for energy 10,000 times over,'' Sargent said in a phone interview Sunday from Boston. He is currently a visiting professor of nanotechnology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

continued at: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1105319242587_49?hub=SciTech

Yaak

01-12-2005, 09:18 PM

Now that Deborah has been driven away and I don't have to co-ordinate my strategy with hers, and now that I have ignore-listed the debunkers and don't have to read their ravings, there is no reason for me to confine myself to the subject of climate change and to make relatively innocuous postings.

In fact, I can make controversial postings, and I think I will.

Not my own compositions, of course. I don't write for the entertainment of Raynolds and company.

No. Cut and paste. Then we will see who it is that is trapped here.

Inspite of having all of us ignore-listed, Wayne still somehow knows everything we post.:D

halva

01-12-2005, 09:21 PM

Indonesia orders troops out by end of March

Marines won’t set up camp; Paris Group offers to suspend debtThe Associated Press
Updated: 7:44 p.m. ET Jan. 12, 2005BANDA ACEH, Indonesia - Indonesia announced that U.S. and other foreign troops providing tsunami disaster relief must leave the country by the end of March and ordered aid workers Wednesday to declare their travel plans or face expulsion from devastated Aceh province on Sumatra island.

The government’s moves highlight its sensitivities over a foreign military operation in this country — albeit a humanitarian one — and underscore its efforts to regain control of Aceh province, the scene of a decades-old conflict between separatist rebels and federal troops accused of human rights abuses.

In Paris, meanwhile, the world’s wealthiest nations said they supported a moratorium on debt repayments by countries stricken by the Dec. 26 disaster, which has killed more than 150,000 people.

The latest restrictions placed on the international presence came as the aircraft carrier leading the U.S. military’s tsunami relief effort steamed out of Indonesian waters Wednesday after the government declined to let the ship’s fighter pilots use its airspace for training missions. The USS Abraham Lincoln’s diversion was not expected to affect aid flights, however.

U.S. Marines have also scaled back their plans to send hundreds of troops ashore to build roads and clear rubble. The two sides reached a compromise in which the Americans agreed not to set up a base camp on Indonesia or carry weapons.

Instead, the Marines, about 2,000 of whom were diverted to tsunami relief from duty in Iraq, will keep a “minimal footprint” in the country, with most returning to ships at night, said Col. Tom Greenwood, commander of the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit.

U.S. seeks explanation
In Washington, the White House asked the Indonesian government to explain why it was demanding that the U.S. military and other foreign troops providing disaster relief leave the country by March 31.

“We’ve seen the reports. ... We’ll seek further clarification from Indonesia about what this means,” said Scott McClellan, press secretary to President Bush. “We hope that the government of Indonesia and the military in Indonesia will continue the strong support they have provided to the international relief efforts so far.”

In announcing the decision, Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla said Tuesday that “a three-month period is enough, even sooner the better.”

Cabinet Secretary Sudi Silalahi explained that Indonesia hoped to take over the humanitarian work by March 26, exactly three months after the massive 9.0-magnitude earthquake set off waves across southern Asia and Africa that killed more than 150,000 people, two-thirds of them on Sumatra.

Starting Jan. 26, Indonesia will “gradually take over the role of foreign military and non-military assistance,” Silalahi said. By Feb. 26, he said, Indonesia’s role should be larger than that of the foreigners.

Debt bills could be suspended

At a meeting Wednesday in Paris, a French official said the world’s wealthiest nations, including the United States, believed a suspension of billions of dollars in debt repayments by tsunami-devastated countries would provide a necessary “breath of oxygen” for recovery and reconstruction from the disaster.

While three debtor countries — Indonesia, Sri Lanka and the Seychelles — support the moratorium, Thailand does not because it fears the potential effect on its standing in international financial markets, French Finance Minister Herve Gaymard told RFI radio.

The proposed moratorium on debt repayments by tsunami-hit countries “was very quickly accepted” by the 19 creditor nations that make up the Paris Club, Gaymard said. The details on the moratorium were being finalized Wednesday.

Later, as the Paris Club met to sign off on the proposal, Gaymard told reporters that the leading industrialized nations within the club regarded the moratorium as “completely indispensable” for tsunami-hit countries “to overcome the immense difficulties.”

Sri Lanka, India also suspicious of help
Indonesia, where the tsunami killed more than 106,000 people, is not the only affected country that is ambivalent about U.S. military aid.

After the earthquake and tsunami, the U.S. military dispatched the Abraham Lincoln battle group to Sumatra and three ships carrying Marines toward Sri Lanka, where more than 30,000 people were killed. But two ships carrying Marines were diverted to Sumatra after Sri Lanka downgraded its request for help. India, where more than 10,000 were killed, rebuffed U.S. aid offers.

About 13,000 U.S. military personnel, most of them aboard ships in the Abraham Lincoln’s battle group, are taking part in the relief effort.

In Indonesia, hundreds of troops from other nations are also helping out, along with U.N. agencies and scores of non-governmental aid groups.

Australia has more than 600 troops in Aceh and expects to have about 300 more by week’s end. Japan has sent two ships with 350 troops and has promised to deploy about 1,000. Germany and Britain each has a smaller presence, involving mostly medical teams.

They, too, have agreed not to carry weapons while on Indonesian soil and are leaving security to the Indonesian military.

Both government troops and separatist rebels in Aceh say they will not launch attacks during the tsunami emergency. Indonesian soldiers and witnesses have described at least one clash in detail to The Associated Press, involving rebels who were either seeking food or trying to visit relatives.

Indonesia reasserts authority

The Indonesian government has traditionally barred foreigners from visiting Aceh, relenting after the tsunami struck and no other option existed but to invite foreign troops to deliver aid and set up field hospitals.

Indonesian authorities are now moving reassert control. On Wednesday, they ordered aid workers to declare travel plans or face expulsion from Aceh, saying it was for their safety.

The statement from Indonesia’s relief chief also said that if groups headed to regions considered dangerous, “then their safety will be organized by the national security authority.” It was not known whether that meant aid organizations might get military escorts.

Australian Prime Minister John Howard described the demand as “a good idea.” But Clive Williams, a defense expert at Australian National University, said the Indonesians wanted to keep close tabs on foreigners to conceal corruption.

“The big problem with dealing with [the military] in Aceh is that they’re involved in a lot of corruption there, and the reason I think they don’t want people to go to some areas is because they’re involved in human rights abuses,” said Williams, director of terrorism studies at the university’s Strategic and Defense Studies Center in Canberra.

U.N. officials worried the new rules might delay the delivery of supplies.

“Any requirements that would create any additional bottlenecks or delays or otherwise adversely affect our operations need to be reviewed very carefully,” said Kevin Kennedy of the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.

Aid continues streaming in

The USS Abraham Lincoln’s diversion to international waters did not interrupt the steady stream of helicopter flights delivering aid along the devastated coast of Sumatra island, because they were able to refuel on other Navy ships closer to shore, Lt. Cmdr. John M. Daniels said.

Under Navy rules, pilots of carrier-based warplanes cannot go longer than 14 days without flying, or their skills are considered to have degraded too far and they have to undergo extensive retraining.

The bulk of the Marines’ mission, meanwhile, has become ferrying aid workers and transporting food from the amphibious assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard. On Wednesday, Marine helicopters flew the first mission to the shattered city of Calang to drop off a French medical team. Helicopters also delivered supplies to Indonesian troops in Meulaboh, farther south.

Capt. David Shealy swooped his helicopter down on a scene of utter destruction — palm trees lying strewn across a beach, their roots sticking out of the sand. Rice paddies were filled with mud. Houses had been turned into piles of rubble, or washed out to sea. Bridges were buckled and broken.

But as Shealy lowered his helicopter to hover just a few feet over a road, hundreds of people suddenly appeared, swarming around, arms outstretched.

“It’s like nothing I’ve ever seen before,” said Shealy, of Dillon, S.C.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

whitemajikman

01-12-2005, 09:22 PM

Interesting-----Gaia becomes a neocon. Guess that means you lost 9/10 of your brain in Israel somewhere.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/bushjews.html

IMHO,
is

Jimmy face the facts your ideology has no place in this world anymore.......

it died with Hitler.......

No matter how many times you prance around with your SS uniform on......while reading Mein Kampf.......And Listening to Wagner.........

please get a clue........or a new ideology........

As far as Gaiacomm goes......he stated many times that he was a Neo-Con.......

What I am wondering is if he realizes Neo-Con means ........NEW Conservative......not New CON.

WMM

whitemajikman

01-12-2005, 09:25 PM

halva

01-12-2005, 09:27 PM

Did Bush's New Homeland Security Nominee Protect Terror-Linked
Doctor from Prosecution?

Bernard Kerik, Michael Chertoff... Who's Next? Tony Soprano?
Jan. 12, 2005-- Venice, FL
by Daniel Hopsicker
A MadCowMorningNews World Exclusive!
From: http://www.madcowprod.com/01122004.html

See also latest edition of the MadCowMorningNews TV Show @
http://www.madcowprod.com/
***************

IMAGE: Welcome To Terrorland - A NEW BOOK BY DANIEL HOPSICKER

ORDER YOUR SIGNED COPY TODAY
http://www.madcowprod.com/books.html

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Michael Chertoff, appointed by President Bush to head the Homeland
Security Department, may have shielded from criminal prosecution
while in charge of the U.S. Government's 9.11 investigation a
former client suspected by law enforcement of having funneled
millions of dollars directly to Osama Bin Laden.

Egyptian-born Dr. Magdy el-Amir, a prominent New Jersey neurologist,
was at the center of terrorist intrigue in Jersey City.

El-Amir gave money to a conspirator in the 1993 World Trade
Center Bombing Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman.
His brother in Cairo was caught on tape attempting to buy weapons
from an American undercover agent for Islamic militant groups.

Before being arrested in a terrorist deal involving oil and
heroin for guns and training, arms smuggler Diaa Mohsen was paid
at least $5,000 by one of Dr. el Amir's companies, NBC's Dateline
reported.

And his HMO was suspected by law enforcement of being used to
funnel money directly to Osama bin laden.

Wire Transfers to "Unknown Parties"

Chertoff's client "caused more than $5.7 million to be paid by
wire transfers to unknown parties," said the lawsuit filed shortly
before the state took over his failing HMO.

News accounts about el-Amir's legal difficulties contain unanswered
questions about undue political influence and its effect on national
security.

For example, how did el-Amir, who only the month before had been
granted a state license to operate an HMO, finagle a lucrative
contract from the state of New Jersey in 1995?

'Why was this doctor allowed to start a health plan?' asked the
October 25, 1999 issue of the medical trade journal Medical Economics.

'How could this medical entrepreneur, who had no experience running
a managed-care or health insurance company, receive a license
for an HMO that now provides care to 44,000 of New Jersey's most
vulnerable citizens?" asked The Bergen Record. 'Moreover, how
could the state pay such a novice $ 6 million a month in taxpayers
money to take on such a responsibility?'

Why did Michael Chertoff even take the case?

Skimming for Osama in New Jersey

Answers were slow in coming, until it was revealed that at the
same time el-Amir was pitching state business he had begun making
generous contributions to the governing Republican party, donating
nearly $ 18,000 to various GOP candidates in 1996.

And a foreign intelligence report made available to the Chairman
of the House International Committee alleged that an HMO owned
by Dr. el Amir in New Jersey was 'funded by Ben Laden,' and that
in turn Dr. el Amir was skimming money from the HMO to fund 'terrorist
activities.''…

Stuff like that doesn't happen, does it? In New Jersey?

Barely three years after enrolling its first patient, APPP lay
in financial ruins, its network doctors and hospitals were saddled
with millions of dollars in unpaid claims, and its founder had
retained the services of Michael Chertoff.

Did Chertoff know where the stolen money was going?

"Frankly, we can't differentiate between terrorism and organized
crime and drug dealing," then-Asst Attorney General Michael Chertoff
told the Senate Banking Committee looking into the terrorists'
money trail in the aftermath of 9.11.

'These groups don't hold themselves independently: They work
with one another. Terrorists get engaged in drug activity. They
have relationships with organized crime," Chertoff said.

Paging Tony Soprano

Chertoff was undoubtedly worth every penny Dr. Magdy paid him:
though doctors and hospitals calculated they were owed more than
$45 million, Dr. ElAmir faced no criminal charges.

When the MadCow Morning News first reported on Mob and terrorist
connections to "Magic Dutch Boy' Rudi Dekkers and the covert
operations conducted at the Venice Airport, Michael Chertoff
was running the official U.S. investigation.

Dekkers remains free.

Magdy el-Amir continues to live and practice in New Jersey.

Now that Chertoff has been tapped to keep America safe, questions
are sure to resurface about whether he hadn't himself been instrumental
in helping to make America dangerous.

Documents in the el-Amir case remain under seal. Fortunately,
the following information does not. From the Bergen County Record
(New Jersey) on January 24, 1999:

'For a while, Magdy Elamir looked like the Horatio Alger of managed
care in New Jersey.'

'An Egyptian immigrant who parlayed a storefront medical practice
in Jersey City into a multimillion-dollar health-care empire
that served thousands of the state's poorest citizens, he lived
in a Saddle River mansion and contributed generously to candidates
for political office'…

'His health maintenance organization, American Preferred Provider
Plan Inc., is about to be sold by state regulators to salvage
some money for doctors and hospitals who calculate they're owed
more than $ 45 million.' Link

In August 2002, NBC's Dateline reported on the el-Amir case:

'Last fall, DATELINE obtained information about this man, Magdy
el Amir. He's a prominent doctor, a neurologist with a practice
in Jersey City. Born and educated in Egypt, he moved to this
country about 20 years ago and since then has built a fortune'…

My brother likes tanks, is all.

'Well, take a look at this document obtained by DATELINE last
fall. A foreign intelligence report that makes a startling allegation
about the doctor, that he has had financial ties with Osama bin
Laden for years. The report was given to a senior member of Congress,
Ben Gilman, back in 1998 when he was chairman of the House International
Relations Committee'…

'The report alleges that an HMO owned by Dr. el Amir in New Jersey
was 'funded by Ben Laden,' and that in turn Dr. el Amir was skimming
money from the HMO to fund 'terrorist activities.''…

'Less than a year after the congressman says the FBI received
the report, Dr. el Amir's HMO was taken over by the state of
New Jersey… according to sources close to the investigation,
more than $15 million is unaccounted for. Where did the money
go? DATELINE has reviewed documents that show at least some of
it went into hard-to-trace offshore bank accounts'…

'But the intelligence report suggests one thing that he doesn't
deny, that he has donated money to the mosque where the blind
sheik once preached, Omar Abdel-Rahman, who is now in prison
for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing'…

halva

01-12-2005, 09:29 PM

'DATELINE has found another reason why federal investigators
might want to pay close attention to Dr. el Amir and his family.
It's something we learned when we interviewed Randy Glass, the
con man-turned-undercover operative who helped the government
break up an illegal weapons ring allegedly tied to terrorist
groups. It turns out that one of the people recorded trying to
arrange an arms deal with Randy Glass was Dr. el Amir's own brother,
Mohamed, an engineer, also a US citizen now living in Egypt.
And just listen to what he was interested in'…

'Mr. GLASS: (From tape) OK. They want to ship things like tanks,
correct?'

'Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) Uh-huh… No, no, no, no, just ammunition,
not tanks.'

'Glass says federal agents told him to drop the matter'…

'That same intelligence report that talks about Dr. [Magdy] el
Amir also names his brother Mohamed as having ties to Osama bin
Laden.' Link

Chertoff for the Defense

The el-Amir's appear to be intimately linked with Osama bin Laden,
making the following report from The Bergen Record quite puzzling,
dated December 11, 1998:

'A Superior Court judge on Thursday ordered state Insurance Commissioner…
to take control of American Preferred Provider Plan Inc., a health-maintenance
organization for Medicaid patients allegedly bled dry by its
Saddle River owner, neurologist Magdy Elamir'…

'But in a hint of the gravity of his legal predicament, he was
represented in court by Michael Chertoff, the former U.S. attorney
in Newark and counsel to U.S. Sen. Alfonse D'Amato's Whitewater
investigation.' Link

Yes, the soon-to-be Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff
represented a known bin Laden operative. Perhaps more troubling,
Chertoff also headed the U.S.'s investigation into the September
11th attack. From the New Jersey Law Journal, August 4, 2003

'The Sept. 11 investigation was supervised by Assistant Attorney
General Michael Chertoff, head of the U.S. Criminal Justice Division,
who is now a Third Circuit judge.' Link

More on Chertoff from the New Yorker, November 5, 2001:

'Since the September 11th terrorist attacks, Chertoff's office
has become the funnel for what is probably the most important
criminal investigation in American history, as prosecutors and
F.B.I. investigators pour in to seek the boss's approval. What
leads can we use from the search of a hijacker's car in Portland,
Maine? Where do the hijackers' credit-card records lead?… For
day-to-day decisions, Chertoff has the last word'…

'Graduating from Harvard Law School, in 1978… he served as a
model for an intense and brilliant character in his classmate
Scott Turow's book 'One L,'…Link

Intense, brilliant...corrupt?

Though el-Amir's HMO was known to be affiliated with bin Laden
since the mid- 1990s, Chertoff offers an alternate view of the
HMO's financial statements. From The Record, December 18, 1998:

'Elamir's attorney, Michael Chertoff, the former U.S. attorney
in Newark, offered the doctor's first in-depth defense to the
state charges Thursday, insisting that Elamir had not misappropriated
any funds from APPP [el-Amir's HMO].' Link

Also from The Record, December 16, 1998:

'Michael Chertoff, a former U.S. attorney who is Elamir's attorney,
said the state's papers don't give the complete picture of the
company's finances. 'It's a one-sided picture of what's going
on,' he said.' It would be unfortunate if the state's approach
is to find someone to punish, rather than solve the problem.''

'Chertoff said Elamir would like to work with the state in its
effort to rehabilitate the HMO.' Link

Chertoff's comments on the case made The New York Times on December
18, 1998:

"'Dr. Elamir's lawyer, Michael Chertoff, said that all transactions
were approved by state agencies and that his client has done
nothing improper.' Link

The Bergen Record printed a post-trial wrap-up of the case on
February 22, 2000:

'A year after a Medicaid HMO accused of misusing state and federal
funds was dissolved by the state, its founder is still enjoying
a millionaire's income while the hospitals and doctors who allegedly
were defrauded delay programs for the poor and fight for restitution'…

'APPP's founder, Saddle River neurologist Magdy Elamir, continues
to practice medicine in a Jersey City storefront office and lives
in a $ 1.8 million mansion in one of Bergen County's toniest
suburbs, court records show. His car leases alone total $ 65,000
per year, the records show.'

'The Egyptian immigrant also operates a chain of MRI facilities
in Newark, Irvington, and Paterson, a limousine company, and
a medical management company. Combined with his medical practice,
his income totals more than $ 18,000 weekly, nearly $ 1 million
a year, records show.'

A Republican voice for the downtrodden

‘'He's still in good spirits,' said Michael Chertoff, the former
U.S. attorney in Newark whom Elamir hired as his defense lawyer.'

'Public records in the civil case contain no reference to a criminal
investigation, but court officials said some documents in the
case were under seal. The state Attorney General's Office would
neither confirm nor deny an investigation. The state's Medicaid
fraud division is not involved in the case, a Medicaid spokesman
said'…

'Elamir's property and bank accounts are worth more than $ 8.8
million, according to his financial statement, but mortgages
and other liens reduce his net worth to $ 760,000'... Link

Why would New Jersey's Top Attorney Michael Chertoff represent
a person of el-Amir's relatively modest financial position? Though
comfortable, el-Amir had failed to reach millionaire status.
Not exactly Chertoff's typical clientele, as reported by The
Bergen Record on June 19, 2000:

'New Jersey is home to about 65,000 lawyers, some of whom are
quite good at what they do. But if the state had a First Lawyer,
or a Lawyer Laureate, it just might be Michael Chertoff'…

'His counsel is sought by public corporations, politicians, government
agencies, and high-profile defendants'…

'Columbia/HCA, the health-care consortium… is the ninth-largest
employer in the United States… As the lead attorney for Columbia,
Chertoff negotiated a partial settlement of the case in May for
about $ 745 million'…

'When he entered private practice, Chertoff said he would not
represent drug dealers and mobsters, preferring to work for 'decent
people.'' Link

Well, after all, it was only a preference.

****************
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The Scoop website is at http://www.scoop.co.nz/
This Story is at http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0501/S00072.htm

Yaak

01-12-2005, 10:15 PM

Awesome Post Ed.......

I think I am Going to purchase one via the Internet........

It would come in real handy for Ice fishing......and to keep in the car in case of emergencies........

Not just as a stove but as a heat source...........

oops I meant the stove not the Battery Charger........

Shawn
I have to warn you before you buy one, Shawn, the stove would be as practical for a heat source as a blow torch. Something that burns cooler and more slowly would be better. It's fantastic as a stove, though, and there is never a lack of fuel.

edit: Maybe the Eagle model would be good as a heat source. I was thinking of the small Sierra model. I don't know if much heat is radiated from the sides of the Eagle. With forced are convection, most of the heat would go straight up. The photos are misleading. When the stove is operating at optimum, there are white hot coals and very little flame. If you get one, please let me know what you think of it.

halva

01-13-2005, 03:30 AM

Is the UN going to accuse Indonesia of undermining aid efforts by asserting its sovereignty?

Meanwhile Crichton familiarises his audience with the notion that the weather is a weapon.

halva

01-13-2005, 04:58 AM

The oil crash and you:

Oil shortages soon
Summary:

This document reveals that within ten years:
• Oil extraction from wells will be physically
unable to meet global demand (the evidence is
from the oil industry itself)
• Alternative energy sources like nuclear and
natural gas will fall far short of compensating for
expected shortages of oil. There is simply not
enough time to convert over to them.
• Massive disruptions to transportation and the
economy are expected around 2010 when the final peak of production of all petroleum liquids
(globally) is followed by decline.

Most significant effects:
• Gradual, permanent cut-off of fuel for transport and for industrial machinery. Global trade will greatly decline.
• Agriculture (food production) depends heavily on fertilizers and chemicals made from oil.
• Shortages of 500,000 other goods made from oil.
• Therefore, reduction of virtually all business and government activity.
Difficulty of adapting: A major part of the problem is that existing equipment is designed only for oil fuels. For example, the world’s 11,000 airliners cannot run on natural gas, nuclear or coal.
By-products of oil: Cost and decreasing availability of 500,000 known uses of oil: Fertilizers (farms/food supply), medicines, plastics, insulation, computers, asphalt, inks & toners, paints, glues, solvents, antiseptics, golf balls, CDs, trash bags, nail polish, detergents, chewing gum, etc.

Hidden problem: Not only will the oil supply dwindle, but the shortages and climbing prices will obstruct industry as it attempts to convert society to other forms of energy.
Proof of impending shortages: Much uninformed literature says oil is plentiful and that better extraction will maintain adequate supply for decades. However, this sheet reveals:
- misleading reporting of oil inventories, by oil extracting countries.
- a clear, forty-year trend of less and less discovery of oil, and dwindling outputs from the steadily-emptying wells.

Alternative energy sources will not prevent shortages:
Alternative fuels have been studied. As replacements for oil they are grossly inadequate both in quantity and versatility of use. There is insufficient time to prevent heavy impacts.

When, and how bad:
Year when global oil supply first fails to meet global demand: about 2009
Rate of decline of global oil supply: 3% every year from 2009 onward.
Duration of decline: Forever. Oil takes millions of years to form, in very special geological conditions.

Barrels consumed globally per year: More than
22 billion in 1999. (About 2 billion barrels per month)
Barrels discovered globally per year: 6 billion of “conventional” plus 8 billion deep sea, oil sands etc. Discovery of oil fluctuates each year, but peaked in the 1960s, and has declined at an average of about 9 billion barrels per year over the past 40 years. We’ve mostly just been using up huge old oil fields.
Pre-1973-discovered oil in use today: More than 70% of present global supply.
Ratio of oil consumed to oil discovered each year: Four consumed for every one discovered.
Billion barrels Discovered Extracted Consumed
(USA 15yr.1977-91 5 45 92
(World 10yr.1982-91) 91. 221 221
Those figures, & the following graph of discoveries are at: http://users.knsi.com/~tbender/ivanhoe.html

Proportion of global energy provided by oil in developed countries: 40% (1997)
The “invest more to find it” idea:
Yet-to-be located oil, globally: After a century of exploration, the earth’s geology and oil resources are generally well known. When the fields are emptying, money only helps to scrape out the hard-to-reach remainder. There are 210 billion barrels left to discover and 1000 billion barrels left to extract. This is indicated by the 40 year decline in discovery of oil. No amount of money will create oil that simply isn’t there.

Number of oil wells already in world/USA: More than 500,000. In USA, 80% of the wells now produce less than three barrels a day.
Percentage of oil recovered from a typical oil well: 20% to 60% . It relates primarily to the density of the oil. You get less from a heavy oil than a light one because it sticks in the reservoir.
“Technology will solve it” idea
Challenge to technology: To compensate for the expected 3% oil decline (at today’s 22 billion barrels a year), create and install, by year 2009, permanent supplies of portable energy, equivalent to 660 million barrels of oil a year. Then as oil keeps declining forever, increase this new energy it until it replaces 40% of the world’s energy supply (22 billion barrels a year) OR reduce energy demand equivalently as the global population increases by almost a quarter million people every day.

The “better efficiency” idea
Increases in efficiency usually fail to reduce consumption (more m.p.g. just causes people to travel more or buy two cars, or other goods) unless they are personally determined to reduce their consumption.
What about nuclear power?
Nuclear is currently being abandoned globally. (International Energy Agency 1999). Its ability to soften the oil crash is very problematic:
- Past accidents. Risk of more, and terrorism.
- Many more reactors would be needed. Tons of radioactive materials to transport at risk to public.
- Nuclear waste disposal is still the major,
unresolved problem, especially breeder reactors producing plutonium a nuclear weapon/terrorist raw material, half-life contamination is 24,000 years. All abandoned reactors are radioactive for decades or millenia.
- Nuclear is not directly suitable for aircraft and vehicles. Adapting nuclear to make hydrogen or other fuels would be a huge, and energy-expensive project.
- Nuclear fusion is still not available, after 40 years’ research and billions of dollars invested.

halva

01-13-2005, 05:00 AM

Natural gas
Proportion of global energy provided by gas: 20% of global energy supply (1997).
As a replacement for oil: Gas itself will start running out from 2020 on. Demand for natural gas in North America is already outstripping supply, especially as power utilities take the remaining gas to generate electricity. Gas is not suited for existing jet aircraft, ships, vehicles, and equipment for agriculture and other products. Conversion consumes large amounts of energy as well as money. Natural gas also does not provide the huge array of chemical by-products that we depend on oil for.

Hydro-electric
Present use: 2.3% of global energy supply (1997).
As a replacement for oil: Very small compared with 40% provided at present by oil. Unsuitable for aircraft and the present 800 million existing vehicles.

Coal
Current global use: 24% of global energy supply.
As a replacement for oil: Is 50% to 200% heavier than oil per energy unit. Bulky and dirty. Would require expansion of coal mining, leading to land ruin and increase in greenhouse gas emissions. Hard to fine-control the rate of burn (oil/gas is easy), therefore is used in power stations to make electricity, wasting half of its energy content. A single coal-fired station can produce a million tons of solid waste each year. Present coal-mining machinery and transportation runs not on coal, but on oil-based fuels. Burning coal in homes pollutes air with acrid smog containing acid gases and particles.

Large pollution & environmental problems: (Smog, greenhouse gases, and acid rain).
Liquid fuels from coal: Major pollution, very inefficient, and huge amounts of water required.

Solar and wind
Global solar use: About 0.006% of global energy supply. Energy varies constantly with weather or day/night. Not storable or portable energy like oil or natural gas so unsuited for present vehicles and industry. Batteries bulky, expensive, wear out in 5-10 years. Photovoltaic solar equipment (US$4/watt) is about 15% efficient, giving about 100 watts of the 1 kW per square metre exposed to bright sunshine (enough for one light bulb). A typical solar water panel array can deliver 50% to 85% of a home’s hot water though. Using some of our precious remaining crude oil as fuel for manufacturing solar & wind equipment may be wise.
Global wind power use: 0.07% of 1990 global energy supply. As with solar, energy varies greatly with weather, and is not portable or storable like oil and gas. Each wind turbine from Denmark produces an average of 698 kW averaged over a year.

Hydrogen
Current global use: US (only) 1998 consumption is 0.01% of global energy.
As a replacement for oil: Hydrogen is currently manufactured from methane gas.
It takes more energy to create it than the hydrogen actually provides. It is therefore an energy “carrier” not a source. Liquid hydrogen occupies four to eleven times the bulk of equivalent gasoline or diesel. Existing vehicles and aircraft and existing distribution systems are not suited to it. Solar hydrogen might be an option in some of the hot countries.

halva

01-13-2005, 05:01 AM

Other sources of energy

Options: Shale, tar sand, coalbed methane, ethanol, biomass (from vegetation), etc.
Effectiveness as replacements for oil: Huge investment in research and infrastructure to exploit them, plus large amounts of now-expiring oil supply. 6% of US gas is from non-conventional generation. The major problem is that they cannot be exploited before the oil shocks cripple attempts to bring them on line, and the rate of extraction is far too slow to meet the huge global energy demand.

How it will affect us
Food production & delivery depends on oil
Grain production: Food grains now contain between 4 and 10 calories of fossil fuel for every 1 calorie of solar energy. Four percent of US energy budget is used to grow food, while 10 to 13 percent is needed to put it onto our plates. The worsening oil shortages will make production increasingly expensive. Putting food production closer to cities will be vital, but unlikely to feed the population.
Percentage of US grain used to feed cattle: 70%
Efficiency: The meat feeds 1/5 as many people as the grain could.
Number of cats & dogs in USA: 131 million
Food given to pets: Nth. American pet food business is $30 billion/yr, and is growing.
“Food” equivalents in road use of gasoline in vehicles: The present fossil fueled and fertilized agribusiness is not sustainable, nor can biofuels grown on such farms meet current demands. If you envision how fuel shortages and price increases would effect your use of a 30 mile-per-gallon vehicle, consider your food. Also shown is the heavy physical labour humans will have to do in future when gasoline is unavailable for farm/industrial/office/home machinery:
Bread, 1 kg loaf = 6 miles= one slice per 422 yards
That 1/5 gallon=human heavy farm labour for 23 hrs
Beef, 1 kg = consumed by driving 76.2 miles
That 2.5 gallon=human heavy farm labour 300 hrs
Canned corn 1 kg= consumed by driving 5.4 miles
Again, 1/5 gallon=human heavy farm labour 20 hrs

Oil for transportation
Automobiles, globally: 800 million
Automobiles, USA: 132 million
Trucks (all types, in USA): 1.5 million
Buses: (all types, in USA): more than 654,000
Locomotives: (USA) 26,000
World aircraft fleet: 11,000 aircraft more than 100 passengers. All 11,000 designed for oil-based fuel.
World shipping: 85,000 ships in world.
Decked fishing boats in the world: 1.2 million
Globalization: Will end. (Fuel costs & scarcity).

Oil for industry
Industry, example: Construction industry example: Energy to build an energy-efficient home is equivalent to 6,500 gallons of gasoline.
Number of by-products of oil: Over 500,000 including fertilisers (they are the most vital), medicines, lubricants, plastics (computers, phones, shower curtains, disposables, toys, etc.), asphalt (roading and roofs), insulation, glues/paints/ caulking, rubber tires and boots, carpets, synthetic fabrics/clothing, stockings, insect repellent.
City drinking water, govt services
Number of cities in the world: over 55,000
Services to consider: Water supply pumping, sewage disposal, garbage disposal, street/park maintenance, hospitals & health systems, police,
fire services. National defense (land, sea, air). Possibility of wars over remaining oil.

gaiacomm

01-13-2005, 05:04 AM

gaiacomm

01-13-2005, 05:05 AM

Kidding? Why? I am absolutely just as ead serious as Gaiacomm International is with their claims. Most of what I said I quoted directly from their own web site, so it MUST be true, right? :)

If you say so!

gaiacomm

01-13-2005, 05:06 AM

Now that Deborah has been driven away and I don't have to co-ordinate my strategy with hers, now that I have ignore-listed the debunkers (and competitive ego-tripping 'allies' like Shadow) and don't have to read their ravings, there is no reason for me to confine myself to the subject of climate change and to make relatively innocuous postings.

In fact, I can make controversial postings, and I think I will.

Not my own compositions, of course. I don't write for the entertainment of Raynolds and company.

No. Cut and paste. Then we will see who it is that is trapped here.

Go for it!

halva

01-13-2005, 05:07 AM

Economy and employment
International oil import costs: Sharp rises (increasing global competition for dwindling oil available from five Middle-Eastern countries and former Soviet Union.). International tensions. Military also obstructed by oil shortages.
National debt, inflation: Money goes out of country to oil producers. Money gets scarce.

Interest/mortgage rise up. Government prints more money to pay overseas energy bills. Money devalues. Prices rise.
Poverty: Public, and businesses become poorer paying higher energy costs. Less spending, less sales. Layoffs.
Welfare payments, taxes: Taxes up. Pensions for aging/disabled population reduced or discontinued.
Other serious quality-of-life aspects
Heating and cooling: In cold regions oil heats buildings (burned as fuel in homes or in oil-fired electric power stations). In hot areas oil power provides air conditioning. As natural gas is substituted for oil, the gas price itself will rise.
Smog: Energy price and shortages will increase wood and coal burning in homes, increasing city smog.

Why public warning is so late
Very misleading reports of actual stocks of oil:
(a) By firstly understating discoveries, and then later overstating discoveries, oil companies have given the false, but pleasing impression of an increasing discovery trend. Investors respond accordingly, and finance more exploration.
(b) The seven major oil-extracting countries have for years reported unchanged reserves (even though they were extracting and selling billions of barrels of oil, and that the reserves would therefore be less each year). See table of “spurious reserve revisions”.
(c) In 1988 five of those countries claimed they each had about twice as much reserve oil as in 1987.
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/campbell/images/com12.gif
(d) The most important fact to focus on is that, in the confusion, the public perceives an increasing discovery trend while the discovery rate has drastically declined.

OPEC countries need to earn as much oil revenue as possible to support rapidly growing populations where the public health care, education and other services are provided free, from oil revenues, not by taxes. See table of reserves:
www.hubbertpeak.com/campbell/images/com12.gif
What you can do
Expanded suggestions are in documents related to this one. The most important first step is to think.
Personal preparations: Reduce energy dependence of family, home, lifestyle. The less fuels and goods you consume, the less the impacts will be on you.
Workplace: ‘Same.
Work on it with friends: Workmates, neighbourhood, city, governments. The ideal use for remaining oil and mineral reserves is into industries that create inexhaustible alternative energy equipment like windmills, solar water heaters, biomass (vegetation that creates fuels), etc.
Share your feeling with others. The "blame" for the situation lies with ourselves. Oil depletion could be just another footnote in history. The core of the problem is that our present global socio-economic-industrial system is utterly dependent on cheap, abundant fossil fuels. In particular note the dependency of green revolution plants and the food infrastructure, and that our present 6+ billion population is dependent on these plants.
Possible measures to consider:
- Lead others to accepting the idea of eventual depletion and a world without fossil fuels.
- Rework vital infrastructure, water, food, etc. to eliminate fossil fuel dependency.
- Relocate workplaces nearer to homes or homes nearer to workplaces
- Prepare for conserving and rationing of dwindling oil/other resources that are created using oil
- Population control to prevent children being born into extremely harsh conditions that seem likely, and to conserve soon-scarce resources for those already alive.
- Re-localize, to reverse globalization
- Strengthen the police and military to deal with likely social chaos and to control distribution of vital supplies.
- Alert national leaders to cooperate against this major threat that faces us all.

More information
Documented evidence
This sheet, and all references and authorities for this information are available for download by temporarily joining the RunningOnEmpty internet forum
mentioned below. In MyGroups page, click the Files section. It is among the first files.
Web sites
The oil die-off is explained in up-to-date detail at www.hubbertpeak.com, and www.dieoff.org Both sites are keyword-searchable, with scientific and oil industry literature about this topic. It is heavily annotated with authoritative references.
Discussion forum - Technical/scientific: www.egroups.com/group/energyresources
Discussion forum-Implications, action: www.egroups.com/group/RunningOnEmpty2

Printed Thursday, January 13, 2005

gaiacomm

01-13-2005, 05:07 AM

Jimmy face the facts your ideology has no place in this world anymore.......

it died with Hitler.......

No matter how many times you prance around with your SS uniform on......while reading Mein Kampf.......And Listening to Wagner.........

please get a clue........or a new ideology........

As far as Gaiacomm goes......he stated many times that he was a Neo-Con.......

What I am wondering is if he realizes Neo-Con means ........NEW Conservative......not New CON.

WMM

I am quite aware of my status and what it represents! (NeoCon)

halva

01-13-2005, 05:25 AM

The difference between me and a debunker is that a debunker has (at least to some extent) to read what he debunks.

That is the tragedy of being reactive.

gaiacomm

01-13-2005, 05:27 AM

The difference between me and a debunker is that a debunker has (at least to some extent) to read what he debunks.

That is the tragedy of being reactive.

Interesting.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-13-2005, 07:16 AM

http://rense.com/general61/hhwe.htm

Paranoid/Paranoia - Media
Buzzwords To Silence
The Politically-Incorrect
By Alan Cantwell, MD
c. 2005 Alan Cantwell, All Rights Reserved
1-10-5

According to Christopher Rudy's Rense.com report, "When the 109th Congress convenes in Washington in January, Senator Bill Frist, the first practicing physician elected to the Senate since 1928, plans to file a bill that would define 'political paranoia' as a mental disorder"
("Incredible - Frist's Bill Defines 'Political Paranoia' As Mental Illness, 1-10-5, http://rense.com/general61/emen.htm).

Immediately after the bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995, there was a media blitz blaming paranoid people and anti-government militia groups for the violent deaths. After the 9/11 attack the media reported a "conspiracy lobby" whose basis premise is that President Bush/ the CIA/ Big Oil either planned the attacks or let them happen to secure the U.S. oil pipeline/ take over the Middle East/ launch a one-world government.

In a Los Angeles Times op-ed piece (March 24, 2002), Gale Holland claims the so-called conspiracy lobby is a tiny but persistent subgroup spawned by the John F. Kennedy assassination and nurtured through the CIA/ assassination-plot scandals of the following decades. Predictably, Holland uses the paranoia buzzword in his final paragraph: "Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction, but sometimes fiction is just fiction. Getting at the truth is tough, accepting it can be harder still. Paranoia is a lot easier. Sept. 11 may have robbed us of our sense of normalcy, but we can't let it upset out reason."

What is obvious is that the major media quickly accept the politically-correct version of an "official story" of an event, as provided by official government sources, and then dump all politically-incorrect versions of the story into the conspiracy theory trash bin. Waging war on "evil doers" everywhere is deemed politically correct; but believing in conspiracy theories is unpatriotic and borders on treason. The media demand documentation as proof of conspiracies, while incriminating documents are shredded by the government, or by a team of well-paid lawyers, accountants and executives, as in the case of the Enron scandal.

Any researcher who has dug hard to find "the truth" knows that it is rarely found in the media. After all, the specialty of the major media is to provide new stories, not to solve the ills of society, nor to bore people with "old news." Reporters pride themselves in unbiased reporting by not taking sides or injecting personal opinion in their stories. Few news writers have the courage or ability to investigate potentially-explosive conspiracy theories that might embarrass the government, or their advertisers or editors - or even their readers.

Despite these shortcomings, the media seem to take pride in dismissing people who believe in conspiracy theories as "paranoid."

According to Webster's Dictionary, paranoia is a serious psychiatric diagnosis: a psychosis characterized by systematized delusions or persecution or grandeur usually without hallucinations. Paranoia can also be defined as a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive and irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others. People who exhibit such psychiatric traits are paranoid.

A definite diagnosis of paranoia requires the expertise of a psychiatric health professional. A diagnosis is made after a careful history and physical examination of the patient, and must include a detailed drug history and psychiatric observation.

All this is ignored by journalists who indiscriminately label people as paranoid. Their purpose is to discredit a person's mind and reasoning ability. Unfairly labeling people as paranoid is malicious and evil; and the word can be as hateful as words like nigger, kike, and faggot. When terms like paranoia and paranoid are tossed around in the media, rational communication is no longer possible.

In psychiatric terminology, a paranoid person is not normal because paranoia indicates a diseased mind.

In their quest for power, politicians sometimes portray their enemies as diseased. Hitler was a master of this. After securing the cooperation of the German physicians, he rid the Third Reich of thousands of mental and physical defectives by murdering them. When this was accomplished, he turned on the Jews. He labeled the Jews as a cancer that needed to be cut out of a diseased Germany. Thus, the roots of the Holocaust were planted.

Labeling people as diseased is an effective way of discrediting and silencing them.

My publishing house, Aries Rising Press, has published two books on the subject of AIDS as a man-made epidemic, which were well-received and reviewed in the alternative press, but totally ignored in the mainstream media. In 1989 my book, AIDS & The Doctors of Death, was offered for sale by an independent bookseller at the International AIDS Conference in Montreal. The presence of the book so infuriated officials of the World Health Organization that they demanded the book be removed from the shelves and banned from the conference. During the past two decades the media have totally dismissed the man-made theory of AIDS as misguided and paranoid.

Ex-New York City Health Commissioner Stephen Joseph, in his AIDS book, Dragon Within the Gates, dismisses without explanation "the paranoid theories about AIDS being a deliberate invention of biological warfare." However, he does note "the scars left by the Tuskegee experiment" in the Black community.

Perhaps physician and senator Frist needs to be reminded of this infamous government-sponsored syphilis Tuskegee experiment, in which public health doctors deliberately lied to black sharecroppers in Alabama for over 40 years. The men were never told they were infected with syphilis, and when a penicillin cure became available in the 1940s the doctors withheld treatment so that they could study the devastating effect of untreated syphilis. When the men died, the doctors rushed to get an autopsy, coaxing the family into giving permission by having the government pick up the tab for the funeral expenses. Under pressure from civil rights activists, this racist experiment was finally terminated in 1972. Is is paranoia to suggest that this experiment was some sort of conspiracy against black people?

Joseph also writes that the memory of Tuskegee "fueled a conspiratorial theory that AIDS resulted from a biological experiment, gone awry, performed on Africans by the United States government." Perhaps that is why a 1990 poll taken of African-Americans living in New York City concluded that "a third believe that HIV was produced by scientists and disseminated through black neighborhoods for the purpose of genocide."

Conspiracy theorists know that government doctors and scientists have conducted covert experiments on unsuspecting civilians for decades, even up to the present time. Current reports in the media indicate that military physicians were either actively or passively involved in the recent scandal involving torture of Iraqi prisoners.

A few years ago the nation was shocked to learn that physicians had performed dangerous radiation experiments on unsuspecting hospitalized patients from the 1940s up until the 1980s. After a half century of government cover-up, the proof was finally revealed when previously classified government documents were released by the Department of Energy. (For details, type in "Human Radiation Experiments" at google.com. Also see Pulitzer Prize-winning Eileen Welsome's The Plutonium Files; America's Secret Experiments in the Cold War.)

Only a fool would believe that government-sponsored conspiracies do not exist. And history has proven that the media cannot protect us or inform us of vast government programs that hurt innocent people.

Charges of secret and unethical experiments against helpless citizens are not the ravings of paranoid people. On the contrary, they are serious accusations of an informed and enlightened citizenry.

It is time to speak out against falsely labeling people as paranoid.

Paranoid and paranoia are acceptable terms when used in a medical setting. But they have no place in slandering and denigrating people who express alternative views in a democratic society.

And, of all people, Senator and Dr. Frist should know that.

_____

Dr. Cantwell is the author of Queer Blood, and AIDS and the Doctors of Death, two books on the man-made origin of AIDS, available through internet sources and published by Aries Rising Press, P.O. Box 29532, Los Angeles, CA 90029 USA. Email: alancantwell@sbcglobal.net

gaiacomm

01-13-2005, 09:02 AM

Interesting.

stuart_allsop

01-13-2005, 09:31 AM

The difference between me and a debunker is that a debunker has (at least to some extent) to read what he debunks..No I don't. Actually, I can quite happily ignore everything you post, not reading it at all, and still come to the conclusion that it is a loud of leftist trash. The only hint that I need in order to decide conclusiely that it is a load of trash, is simply because you thought it was good.

gaiacomm

01-13-2005, 10:12 AM

interesting.

whitemajikman

01-13-2005, 11:35 AM

interesting.

Wayne has decided to bury this thread in heaps of Cut And Paste to deflect his failures.......

The question is will we allow him.........to get off so easily.......

considering this thread was his brainchild.......

And just another in a long line of failed attempts ......

I do not think that even he could have conceived just how BIG a backfire this latest ploy by him TRULY is.........

Jay is right this thread must stay in context for as long as possible......

Anything short of that would be letting Wayne off Scott Free...........

WMM

halva

01-13-2005, 12:31 PM

interesting.

Uninteresting.

gaiacomm

01-13-2005, 12:45 PM

Uninteresting.

Then leave!

gaiacomm

01-13-2005, 12:46 PM

Wayne has decided to bury this thread in heaps of Cut And Paste to deflect his failures.......

The question is will we allow him.........to get off so easily.......

considering this thread was his brainchild.......

And just another in a long line of failed attempts ......

I do not think that even he could have conceived just how BIG a backfire this latest ploy by him TRULY is.........

Jay is right this thread must stay in context for as long as possible......

Anything short of that would be letting Wayne off Scott Free...........

WMM

Lets do it!

Insurrectionchemistry

01-13-2005, 01:52 PM

Seemingly we have the net same effect of the Fox News Network here with its bogus claims of "Fair and Balanced" reporting.

Jay Reynolds, the net same as Bill O'Reiley and his GOP lines, then we have some rich Jew behind the camera or keyboard controling the games, like Rupert Murdock. And there is the crooked Karl Rove out there making even bigger bogus claims.

Then we have the gang of reporters taking their orders to run over any other opinions that what the news propagada is supposed to be today.

But with all that they still can't seem to diminish that global warming is manmade CO2 and other green house heat retaining gases linked.

Nor can they hide all those lines in the skies from the Jet planes that seed clouds and rain out acid rains that upset the trace metals in the food chain and leading to increased illnesses.

It seems the truth always shines a lot brighter and smells better than dukky.

IMHO,
is

PS Good DVD:
http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?trkid=90529&movieid=70002668

Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journalism (2004)

Finally, a no-holds-barred documentary on Rupert Murdoch's Fox News, which has been criticized in some quarters as running a "race to the bottom" in television news. Offering an in-depth look at the dangers of burgeoning corporations that take control of the public's right to know, the film explores Murdoch's ever-expanding media empire and its impact on society. Media experts such as Jeff Cohen and Bob McChesney are interviewed.
Starring: Jeff Cohen, Bob McChesney, More
Director: Robert Greenwald

Yaak

01-13-2005, 04:59 PM

Seemingly we have the net same effect of the Fox News Network here with its bogus claims of "Fair and Balanced" reporting.
Your "effect" and claims are definitely bogus, Jimmy.

Then we have the gang of reporters taking their orders to run over any other opinions that what the news propagada is supposed to be today.

The only person giving orders here is Wayne from whom you take your orders. No "gang," Jimmy, just you.

But with all that they still can't seem to diminish that global warming is manmade CO2 and other green house heat retaining gases linked.

You can't diminish something that doesn't exist.

Nor can they hide all those lines in the skies from the Jet planes that seed clouds and rain out acid rains that upset the trace metals in the food chain and leading to increased illnesses.

Right, in your humble opinion and no one else's.

It seems the truth always shines a lot brighter and smells better than dukky.

That is a good guess.

jayreynolds

01-13-2005, 06:01 PM

Hey, Jimbo, remember you made all those claims about your "air pharmacology methods" you developed while you worked at Oak Ridge National Labs? Hey you never told us who your supervisor was that authorized you to do such work. Who signed off on that and who signed your paycheck for it? If what you say is true, and if you are a real whistleblower, you should have no problem at all telling us wwho these people were.

Same goes for your claim to have invented haarp, etc.

Where's the beef, Jimbo?

Insurrectionchemistry

01-13-2005, 06:31 PM

Ah yeah, their fears are like those of Ruppert Merdock----that suddenly some honest citizens will ask questions and stop being lead down the alley of false news reporting. Or the debunkers will show up as collective frauds.

When enough people come together and confront the massive cover ups, then their game is up. And in many circles that count----which is certainly not here------they are finished and washed up.

Reynolds and his mob are just plain not welcome on a good forum or list that is moderated. They all been booted off, some repleatedly.

Poor poor pitiful Reynolds, he can't seem to read or follow the simplest of directions. As his question he can't seem to get answered is clearly answered on the ole web page. Guess those old worn out Ozark Devils never had any book learning. Go back to farming, and diggin those ditches. It seems about all you can honestly do these days.

Or maybe is could be all that acid rain and fluoride poison he has been eating and saying yummy, while his lymph nodes get all jammed up with AlFx problems and the prions come to call his lucidity away. Poor Poor pitiful j. Have another heaping helping.

IMHO,
is

Yaak

01-13-2005, 06:43 PM

In Jimmy’s post before last, he whined about greenhouse gasses. Tell us, Jimmy, about how your home is solar powered and heated. Do you employ any type of alternative energy? No?

How about you, Wayne? What are you using for power there in the sunny Mediterranean?

halva

01-13-2005, 08:24 PM

Then leave!

That is not a very thoughtful suggestion, Gaiacomm. And it also seems to contradict what you say in your next posting. What do you mean by 'let's do it'??

halva

01-13-2005, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by whitemajikman

(and quoted by gaiacomm, which is how I came to read it)

"Wayne has decided to bury this thread in heaps of Cut And Paste to deflect his failures.......

The question is will we allow him.........to get off so easily.......

considering this thread was his brainchild.......

And just another in a long line of failed attempts ......

I do not think that even he could have conceived just how BIG a backfire this latest ploy by him TRULY is.........

Jay is right this thread must stay in context for as long as possible......

Anything short of that would be letting Wayne off Scott Free...........

WMM"

Whitemajikman there is nothing you can do. You can't make me unignore-list you. You can't stop me posting here unless you can get the moderators here to intervene on your side in a way that none of us have succeeded in doing when we tried to get them to intervene on our side.

I'm not saying that it is impossible, given the wobbly politics of Arianna's forum. Try it if you like. Get me thrown off on the charge of making off-topic postings.

Or get the thread closed down.

As for being off-topic, though. Hardly anything is off-topic to 'Not fooling with Mother Nature', which encompasses climate change, peak oil, the weather as weapon, other weapons which damage the environment and civilian populations more than they damage the alleged enemy.

Even the criminality and corruption of the circles making the decisions that lead to these phenomena are not 'off topic'.

The only thing which could be plausibly represented as off-topic is to focus specifically on Israel as the source of all the evils rather than as merely one among a number of sources.

And of course I am not the one doing that.

So as to your question of whether you are going to allow me to 'get off so easily'.

What exactly are you proposing to do?

Don't bother answering, because I won't read your answer anyway, unless Gaiacomm or Jim Phelps quotes it.

gaiacomm

01-13-2005, 08:49 PM

That is not a very thoughtful suggestion, Gaiacomm. And it also seems to contradict what you say in your next posting. What do you mean by 'let's do it'??

Wyane: I consider you a good person. Just let them have it!

halva

01-13-2005, 09:35 PM

Mother Jones interview Paul Roberts:

MotherJones.com: How much time do we have until the oil runs out?

Paul Roberts: We won’t really run out of oil, because before oil runs out, it will become too expensive to use. Another way to ask that is: When will we hit peak production? The estimates range anywhere from 30 years, to 35 years, to it’s already happened. I think that we’re going to hit peak production in probably about 25 years. But that’s worldwide, and really the one you want to think about is when do we hit production peak outside of OPEC? Because when that happens -- when we can’t get any more oil out of the ground outside of OPEC -- then we have to turn to OPEC. And that’s a tough thing for America and other countries to have to do, because they don’t trust OPEC. The non-OPEC peak will be in about 10 years. Although OPEC countries will still have a lot of oil, they may still be as unsympathetic and as an unfriendly to Western countries as they are today.

MJ.com: So the other oil fields we hear about – in Africa and the Caspian, for example – aren’t going to diminish Saudi Arabia’s power?

PR: That’s right, because even now we are getting a lot of new oil out of Angola and Nigeria and Russia, and other places, but its being sucked just as quickly as it comes out of the ground by demand from China, and India, and the United States. China and India in particular are growing much faster than anyone had anticipated. China is already the second biggest user of oil right now. It passed Japan just recently, which people expected would happen sooner or later, but they did not expect it to happen this quickly. I think even Beijing was caught by surprise.

MJ.com: John Kerry criticized President Bush over the high oil and gas prices, but how much power does a U.S. president really have over the price of oil?

PR: Well, traditionally very little. There is not much the president can do to rapidly raise production. It takes six years from the time you decide to drill in a particular area before you start bringing on lots of oil, and that's assuming that you find a lot of oil. And although the president can release oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, to do that in anything but an emergency would set a terrible precedent. And this isn’t really an emergency -- it’s an election emergency, it’s a political emergency. I don't think the Bush administration will do that.

MJ.com: Can the U.S. government pressure the Saudis?

The Bush administration came in saying that what would be different about them was that they had this relationship with the Saudis -- family relationship, political relationship -- and that they would use that relationship to jawbone OPEC. One suggestion is that the Bush administration is so pleased with the Saudis and their cooperation on terror, and on stopping money-laundering, and doing other things, that they don’t want to lean on them for oil because the Bush administration knows how complex that is for the Saudis. The Saudis have so much domestic opposition they can’t appear to be pro-American. The other school of thought is that the Bush administration doesn’t have any sense of what to do right now and that it has completely lost control -- and in fact never really had the control it claimed to have. The president believed he would be able pick the phone and get a lot of oil, but the truth of the matter was that the situation was always been more complex, and that the Saudis and the U.S. had never been more aligned in their agendas. Right now, they are allies in name -- they have a customer-vendor relationship -- but in many other ways, they’re going in completely different directions. So it appears that the Bush administration doesn’t have the connection it thought it did.

MJ.com: Is the price of gasoline, and energy policy in general, more important as an election issue now than in previous years?

PR: We’re going to find that out. Certainly I thought -- and I think a lot of other observers thought, going in six months ago, that Kerry would be able to hammer the Bush administration on gasoline prices, but the fact is that as soon as you raise the issue, you have to present a solution. Kerry knows that presidents are very limited in what they can do. It really requires a long-term policy, and Kerry is in the process of working on it, but he recognizes that it’s complex. As much as Kerry would like to give a bumper-sticker answer, he knows that, really, you need a comprehensive energy policy. The Bush administration -- as much as I happen disagree with the way they approached it -- they did have a comprehensive energy policy. They came in and said: “We’re not going to preserve. We’re not going to waste our time thinking too much about the alternatives. Efficiency is great, but we’re not going to bet the farm on it. What we’re going to do is to increase production -- past administrations have let the country down because they have not emphasized production. We have not been drilling as much as we should; we aren’t building enough refineries and power plants; and we have not been as careful in building up relationships with oil-supplies -- not just the Middle East, but diversifying our relationships. We need people outside the Middle East, so therefore, we’re going to be working with Africa, the Caspian, and Russia.”

MJ.com: How does Iraq figure into this vision?

PR: Iraq is the centerpiece [of it]. It automatically marks you as a leftist-green-Nader-anarchist in Seattle if you say that it’s a war for oil. But the problem is that it’s been left in this very narrow political context. That's to say, if you say it’s a war for oil, that means that you're against Bush, and if you claim that it’s a war to promote democracy, than you’re for Bush. But you have to give it a much wider context and say that: given that the U.S. uses as much as oil as it does and has done nothing to reduce its demand and given that the global economy on which U.S. power depends entirely; given that global economy depends entirely on oil, mostly from Middle East, the U.S. has no choice but to be intimately connected with Middle Eastern policy, and to intervene -- either diplomatically or economically or worse -- if the stability of the region is threatened. And that this has been the case under any administration. The U.S. has not cut its demand, so it must involve itself in the affairs of its suppliers of oil. But it's been allowed to be staged so narrowly focused that as soon as you raise the war-for-oil rhetoric, you are unpatriotic. But the fact is that the issue is much larger than that and always has been.

MJ.com: With the occupation and the insurgency, there have been attacks on oil terminals. You can make the argument that the Iraq war hasn't stabilized the Middle East.

PR: No, I think it has done just the opposite. Right now we have attacks on oil installations in Saudi Arabia, attacks on oil tankers, and oil-loading ports, such that the oil market now assigns what it calls a “war premium” to the price of oil. It’s between $5 and $10 dollars a barrel. So the market thinks that it hasn’t worked. I happen to think that this war premium is overstated. The contention there is that were it not for the instability in the Middle East, the price of oil would be much, much lower. And I think that although it would be somewhat lower, there is a fundamental tightness in the oil market -- it’s not simply driven by politics. The market is aware that we use 80 million barrels of oil everyday and that our maximum production at this point is 82.5 million barrels of oil a day. So it’s two and a half million barrels of margin -- that’s our cushion, what we call our spare capacity. Most of that margin is in the Middle East, particularly in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. What that means is that if Venezuela -- which produces two and a half million barrels of oil a day -- were to fall into civil unrest, as it did a year and a half ago and let’s say it took off its oil production, which happened -- Venezuela basically shut down its exports a year and half ago. The market simply lost that oil. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait were able to pump up their production and fill that gap before the prices went too high. Now if that happened, that would pretty much tap out all the spare capacity we’ve been talking about. There would no more room for accidents. There would be no more room for disruptions. What if production in Iraq fell because the chaos continued to grow and oil companies stopped wanting to send their people there? What if Saudi Arabia has some sort of political upheaval?

halva

01-13-2005, 09:36 PM

The market recognizes that the oil economy is really tight. You can get a sense of what the market thinks is going to happen based on what future prices are doing. For the last ten years the six-year future price for oil has been about $20 a barrel. Now compare that with $40 dollars today. And what that means is whatever was happening day-to-day in the market, oil traders still believed that within six-years things would be calm, things would be back down to this low price. Well, in the like month or so, these six-year contracts have been at $28 a barrel. It’s a huge increase. And that’s a pretty good sign that the market itself is coming to look at the situation as not just temporary.

MJ.com: Following the oil shock in the 1970s, the U.S. scaled back demand. Why have we backtracked since then?

PR: There were two things that drove the U.S.’s decline in consumption back then. And the one that we think about is the one about policies. We got serious about conserving oil. We made our cars more efficient. We switched to a lot of coal back then, which had its own kind of side-effects. But the main thing that was driving all that change and policy was high prices. As soon prices came up, people switched. It’s what markets do. We tend to think mostly that it was some sort of patriotic effort by the country. You know, the good guys got in there and decided to use less oil and we did, but only after it cost a lot. As soon as price drops, people stop paying attention. Over the 80s, you see people gradually forgetting about oil or energy in general. So by 1990, the SUV craze begins.

MJ.com: You call this obliviousness “energy illiteracy.” Talk more about it.

PR: People become energy literate -- or energy aware -- only when they have to be, and that’s when energy balloons in terms of their household budget or their business expenses. Even now, it’s still not that big of a chunk of our costs. It will slow our economic growth, but it’s not at a point of being disastrous. Because prices were down back in the late 80s and early 90s, consumers didn’t worry about it anymore. And if they are not worrying about it, then the politicians aren’t. Politicians basically lost any incentive to come up with any long-term policy.

America is right back where we started. We are pretty much where were in the 1970s. We are much more energy-efficient, but our cars are bigger. Our refrigerators are much more energy-efficient, but now we have several of them. Our light-fixtures are more energy-efficient, but now we will our houses with track-lighting. Our houses are bigger. Every gain in energy-efficiency has been undercut by an increase in the use of energy.

MJ.com: There are a lot of commercials lately from energy companies, as in "BP: Beyond Petroleum." There is almost a sense of comfort, it seems like the companies have it covered. Do they?

PR: For them, they’re in fat city. On the one hand, they are struggling to find more oil, so they know that they will need a new line of business in the next ten years or so. That’s why a lot of them are moving into natural gas. Not because it’s the clean fuel of the future, but because that’s what’s easy to discover out there. But for right now they’re making boat-loads of money and they are going to re-invest that money in whatever they choose. They can reinvest it in alternative energy, they can reinvest it in gas, they can reinvest it in R&D. Mainly, they’ll reinvest it in advertising to tell you how they are reinvesting it. As far as they are concerned, there will always be demand for oil, at least in the near term. U.S. demand may drop, but they can always sell it to the Chinese. They have people within these companies who are working on alternatives and are pretty serious about it. I was really impressed by the people I talked to at BP. They know so much about exactly what’s required for hydrogen economy and they know why it’s not going to be here anytime soon. They know that you can position yourself to be ready to jump into hydrogen economy right now, you can hire the people who know a lot of hydrogen, you can begin investing in a lot of natural gas, but you would be killed by your competitors who hadn’t made the jump.

MJ.com: You’ve criticized Bush on hydrogen -- for promoting it but not investing in it.

PR: The Bush administration has done two things with hydrogen. It hasn’t invested significantly. You need to consider it a national program, give it billions of dollars a year, and give it the same priority as you do your other energies. The other problem is that hydrogen has so many obstacles to overcome, and they don’t talk about that. I think the point is to distract political opponents and consumers from the current reality, which is that we are using too much oil and gas now. There is no time to wait for the hydrogen economy to show up.

halva

01-13-2005, 09:37 PM

MJ.com: What are these obstacles to hydrogen?

PR: A hydrogen fuel cell is like a battery that just happens to burn hydrogen. The fuel cell itself, although it works well in the lab, it’s still very expensive. There are so many things that we don’t know about how reliable it is. We don’t know how to put a fuel tank on a car that actually lasts long enough. These are all engineering hurdles that can be solved with additional research, but still, it takes time. Then you have to figure out how to manufacture these cars at a scale to bring the price down. Then you have to figure out a way to fuel them. Hydrogen can be made in a laboratory from water, but you need electricity, and you have to get electricity from somewhere. So you burn coal to make the electricity. Or you can make hydrogen from gasoline, so you’re still using gasoline. Or you can make hydrogen from natural gas, but natural gas is in short supply in this country.

Then you have to create this vast network of pipelines to move hydrogen all over the country and then you have to figure a way of dispensing it at a service station. It’s a gas, so you have to liquefy it -- which usually means freezing it -- opening it at enormous pressure, which means it has the potential to explode, and then you have to get it at such a way so that people don’t kill themselves when we are dispensing it. It’s going to take decades to figure all this stuff out and all we need is one accident at a service station, and then it sets it back. Hydrogen probably has a lot of potential and it will probably be an important part of the energy mix sometime in the future, but it’s not going to happen anytime soon.

MJ.com: So what is going to happen soon?

PR: I'm excited about these gas-electric hybrids. A couple of years ago, people were laughing at them. The Japanese built them anyway and they’re selling. Now, no one knows how big of a market there actually is, but it’s bigger than people had anticipated. The great thing about a hybrid is that it gives you a way to instantly cut fuel consumption in a half and emissions of CO2 in half, all while using the existing fueling system. It’s gasoline, so it stretches out our supplies. It gives us some breathing room, gives us more time to work on stuff.

The problem with waiting for the magic bullet -- waiting for whether it’s hydrogen or clean coal or whatever -- is: Let’s say by 2040 we have this plan to roll this stuff out, if we don’t do anything in the meantime to reduce our energy consumption, then by 2040 those technologies would be required to produce so much, that they won’t be able to do it.

The problem with these technologies is power density. One of the reasons why coal, oil, and gas have been so great is that they compress a huge amount of energy into a small mass. Solar, by contrast, or hydrogen, or wind-power, take a huge amount of area to produce a very small amount of energy. The world population is going to be growing substantially. The rule of thumb is that we’re going to have to increase our energy production by four times, but we’re going to have to reduce our carbon emissions by a third. There’s no way we can do that by using fossil fuels.

MJ.com: What about natural gas?

PR: On paper, natural gas is this great bridge fuel because it’s cleaner, it’s globally more plentiful than oil, and it is very versatile. You can burn it to generate power, heat homes, you can -- with some processing -- turn it into liquid fuel -- diesel, for example. It’s a feedstock for hydrogen. You have all these possibilities and just as North America wants to move into a natural gas economy, and in fact its build all these power plants for natural gas, it finds that it does not have enough supply. Supply is really tight and it has to be imported either by an enormous pipeline via Canada and Alaska or through these LNG [liquefied natural gas] terminals, but no one wants the LNG terminals. The ironic thing about LNG is that we get tankers full of gasoline right now here all the time and gasoline is way more flammable and explosive than LNG. LNG just has this mythical terror power -- it’s just going to blow up and take us all out. And it’s not totally safe by any means, but gasoline be far worst and yet we let it come in. It’s a very political issue. But even if we were to build all these LNG terminals, they’re very expensive, they take time to build, and they would only add incrementally to our gas supply.

MJ.com: And nuclear power?

PR: People look at nuclear power longingly because if you could figure out a way to make it safe, and dispose of the waste, and deal with the terrorist security threat, then you have this power that is not limitless, but is fairly cheap and doesn't produce any emissions. The problem is that safety, waste disposal, and security are huge issues. Then there’s the political problem: this country is just not ready for nuclear power. So, as it is, the power industry is very reluctant to take on nuclear, the insurance industry does not want to insure it. Even conservative U.S. forecasters, when they imagine the energy economy of the future, nuclear has a declining share because as the energy demand is going up, nuclear share is staying the same.

MJ.com: You've said that it might take a major disruption for us to reform our energy system.

PR: I have two scenarios. The first is that we have what’s happening right now -- which is that a moderate increase in oil prices gooses the economy towards more efficiency. If prices were to stay this high for a while, then everyone starts making changes. Look at airlines and long-haul trucking companies. Energy is a big part of their costs so they are forced to make changes when energy prices come up. It’s not like you’ll go to a different airline, you just won’t take the trip. So that’s why Boeing is building its new jet -- the 77 -- it’s very fuel efficient. We find ourselves twenty years from now in an economy that is more fuel efficient, has more alternatives to oil and is therefore cleaner, and less reliant on places like the Middle East. That’s the good-news scenario. What I fear for is that instead, because of the fact that the market is so tight, because it’s unstable, because scarcity is looming, and we haven’t even talked about environment constraints, that it’s very likely to have some sort of disruption. And that we are not going to do anything until prices spike not just $40, but $60, $70, or $80 a barrel. And then the question is: Is it just small enough to scare us into action or is it so big that it pushes us into recession and some sort of a war-for-oil? And then when we make energy decisions, they’re bad ones because we have not

foot_soldier

01-13-2005, 09:38 PM

If anybody out there wants to get a good idea of what Hell is like I guess they can come in here and read the last 50 pages of this thread.

This is it - the necrotic center of the malignant core of the World According to Yang; an entity unto itself.

halva

01-13-2005, 10:02 PM

Footsoldier. What a surprise.

Given that you've come back, let's think about it a little.

If you apply the right ignore-listing strategy, this thread does not look like hell at all, and can even become a useful medium for exchanging ideas.

If you want to continue to expose yourself to the debunker input, it would be advisable to decide if you conceive of this as part of a co-ordinated or an individual strategy.

Can you co-ordinate with the motley group of non-debunkers that remain here? Me, Jim Phelps, Gaiacomm perhaps, Shadow? The last of whom seems to be an incorrigible individualist.

I think you should either (a) stay away or (b) come back and ignore-list all the debunkers, as I have done (and perhaps some non-debunkers also).

You have come back, you have told us that this thread is hell. What now?

The Shadow

01-13-2005, 10:02 PM

Whitemajikman there is nothing you can do. You can't make me unignore-list you. You can't stop me posting here unless you can get the moderators here to intervene on your side in a way that none of us have succeeded in doing when we tried to get them to intervene on our side.

I'm not saying that it is impossible, given the wobbly politics of Arianna's forum. Try it if you like. Get me thrown off on the charge of making off-topic postings.

Or get the thread closed down. Nothing of the sort seems likely. Mr. Allslop’s highly embellished complaint regarding my posting did indeed elicit an email from one of the Moderators. However, he also invited my observations in return, which he received. In a response, he said that my posts did not rise "to a level sufficient to remove them." He also remarked that no one was being banned.

Yaak

01-13-2005, 10:21 PM

Nothing of the sort seems likely. Mr. Allslop’s highly embellished complaint regarding my posting did indeed elicit an email from Moderator Mike. However, he also invited my observations in return, which he received. His final judgment shows great insight into the matter and read as follows:

Thanks, [The Shadow]...
I appreciate your comments.
As I noted in the original email to you, I didn't
think your posts rose to a level sufficient to remove
them, and I've not suggested "banning" anyone.

Evidently "tit-for-tat" is being exercised by some on
the board.

I intend to do nothing more on this issue unless it
escalates.

Have a good day

Mike

The only remaining question is who likes the tit and who likes the tat?
A couple of months back I dropped in on a couple of other threads at Arianna's forum. I was shocked at the insults and foul language being exchanged. This thread is holy by comparison.

I consider the freedom of speech to be sacred and desire to deny this freedom to no one. I am truly amused by your posts, Shadow. I enjoy humor in all of its forms even when it's presented in your prissy prose.:D

The Shadow

01-13-2005, 10:38 PM

A couple of months back I dropped in on a couple of other threads at Arianna's forum. I was shocked at the insults and foul language being exchanged. This thread is holy by comparison.

I consider the freedom of speech to be sacred and desire to deny this freedom to no one. I am truly amused by your posts, Shadow. I enjoy humor in all of its forms even when it's presented in your prissy prose.:D You are entitled to your opinion. In any event, what your refer to as “prissy prose” is actually known as formal English. Spend some time at Guide to Grammar and Style (http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/index.html) and it may increase your understanding. Jack Lynch is an Associate Professor in the English department of the Newark campus of Rutgers University. His work trumps that of some New York Times columnist, previously cited as an expert on the subject.

halva

01-13-2005, 11:52 PM

Deborah, remember that if you start posting here again, Raynolds will once again start shooting off his mouth about you. In fact he does not even need you to be here to do that, if I remember rightly.

So either you don't post here at all, you post - ignore-listing Raynolds and company - or you decide that hell ain't such a bad place to be, and post here at the same time exposing yourself to their garbage.

If you choose the second option you have to be prepared for the eventuality of him broadcasting verbiage about you that you are not monitoring and are not going to refute.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-14-2005, 01:07 AM

Hey F_S,

Welcome back. It is a bit like Hell, isn't it, where truth is missing and all around you are lies. That is the definition of Hell.

I am sure you know how the Reynolds Mob plays their game, they all attack persons with outrageous language and even personal attacks. Their intention is to run folks off who like to speak the truth on global warming or chemtrail related subjects. They want to induce a hell for persons, they want to run them off. It is their objective to suppress the truth from being exposed.

You speak a lot of truth in your listings, so you get some heavy Hell applied against you from the Reynolds Mob.

Just look at how nice they were to Bryce R---NOT.

You have to keep in mind how they play their game, that since they can't win on the simple facts that they apply their insults and personal attacks. You know their game and their intentions to hook you into some of their games. Just do the opposite and make them Pavlov's dog.

Just do some end around games and keep them embarrassed constantly by the games being exposed. The only reason they are around is to "shut up" the truth. They get tossed off the well moderated boards and have to fake up ID's to get back on and attack some more.

Recall that "shut-up" word---it is applied liberally by persons like Bill O'Reiley on the Fox Network when the truth leaks out on his TV show. This little game here is not unlike what the entire FOX network is really about, which is nothing to do with "Fair and Balanced."

Stick around, you always have highly valuable comments, which the Mob tends to hate. Which means you are well up there on telling it like it is.

So list some more of the excellent articles that you find onto the thread, and just smile quietly, as it drives the Reynolds mob wild.

IMHO,
is

halva

01-14-2005, 03:55 AM

It seems that we have moved out of one era of history: the 9/11 era, into another era: the tsunami era.

The leftist newspapers in Greece are making a big deal of this, though not presenting it exactly as I do here.

So far the tsunami is different from all the other eras: there is no bad guy.

At the time of the cold war, the bad guy was whoever was the boss of the Soviet Union. He, not 'the West', was responsible for the nuclear arms race.

After the USSR was disposed of, there had to be a bad guy to take the rap for the ensuing ethnic cleansings. Once again, it wasn't 'the West' that triggered the ethnic cleansings, in many places but as far as the headlines were concerned primarily in Yugoslavia. There the bad guy was Milosevic.

When Milosevic was disposed of, the Islamists who had helped dipose of Milosevic became the primary bad guys.

It wasn't Bush/Cheney or whoever who brought down the World Trade Center and holed the Pentagon. It was Osama bin Laden, with some retrospective help from Saddam Hussein.

Hussein was disposed of. Osama is still out there, but he hasn't been blamed yet for the tsunami. Perhaps they can set Michael Crichton to build the case against him.

In the meantime 'the weather as weapon' is still a very very marginal idea to leftists. At the moment it's still Mother Nature asserting her autonomy or revenging herself.

And there is no bad guy, no face on the tsunami.

This is a dangerous situation. If it continues, ecologists will start to gain in credibility. This explains the kinds of things we're seeing in the leftist papers here.

Naivete, of course, and wishful thinking.

But on the other hand it is not going to be easy to find any face other than the real face (if there is a real face, for after all, one cannot prove anything).

halva

01-14-2005, 04:30 AM

Anti-Malaria Spraying Begins in Aceh

By EDWARD HARRIS, Associated Press Writer

BANDA ACEH, Indonesia - Masked workers with mosquito-killing spray guns began moving through refugee camps Friday in tsunami-battered Aceh province, trying to prevent an outbreak of malaria. Indonesia, meanwhile, said it is pursuing a permanent truce with rebels in the area, the worst-hit by the disaster.

While the threat of cholera and dysentery is diminishing because clean water is reaching tsunami survivors in Indonesia, the danger of malaria and dengue fever epidemics is increasing, according to the leader of anti-malaria efforts in the region.

"Short-term, we're trying to prevent an epidemic," said Richard Allan, director of the Mentor Initiative, a public health group that fights malaria epidemics. "And it may already be too late."

The death toll from the Dec. 26 earthquake-triggered tsunami in 11 countries has topped 157,000. Two-thirds of the deaths occurred here in Indonesia's Aceh province.

Allan warns that 100,000 more people could die of malaria around Aceh if quick action isn't taken. A successful spraying effort would drastically minimize that risk.

The pools of salt water created by the tsunami have been diluted by seasonal rains into a brackish water, creating the perfect breeding ground for mosquitos.

A fumigation operation started Friday with a small team of sprayers planning to cover up to eight refugee camps around the provincial capital of Banda Aceh. The main spraying effort won't begin for at least two days, because most of the insecticide has been held up by bureaucratic delays in Jakarta, he said.

Poor health and tsunami-related stress has weakened the immune systems of the displaced people, leaving them abnormally susceptible to mosquito-borne illness, said Allan.

Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla, visiting Banda Aceh, said his government is working on a full truce with rebels who have been fighting off and on for an independent homeland in northern Sumatra for 30 years.

Exiled rebel leaders in Sweden called a unilateral cease-fire the day of the tsunami and have in recent days called for peace talks.

"We are not going for a cease-fire. We are making it permanently and we are working for that," said Kalla, who did not say whether negotiations already were underway.

Despite the talk about a cease-fire, the Indonesian government has insisted that foreign aid workers in Aceh be accompanied by army escorts — a move that relief groups say will hinder their work.

In Sri Lanka, more than 25,000 people displaced by the Dec. 26 tsunami left relief camps in the past 24 hours to return to rebuild their villages, the United Nations (news - web sites)' refugee agency said Friday.

"Some want to return because their houses were partially damaged and some want to return to where their house was to be sure that they are recognized" as the owner, said Neil Wright, an official with the United Nations' High Commissioner for Refugees.

U.S. helicopters flew into eastern Sri Lanka Friday, ferrying some 30 tons of relief materials, including fresh fruits and vegetables.

"We're concentrating on the eastern areas where many people were stranded after their roads and bridges were destroyed," said Sri Lankan Wing Commander Senaka Dharmawardene, who is in charge of coordinating aid in the eastern region. "(The Americans) have been very helpful."

The tsunami killed 31,000 people in Sri Lanka and rendered 800,000 people homeless. Wright said more than 425,000 still remain in refugee camps.

Indonesia is sensitive over foreign involvement in the humanitarian effort, especially that of foreign troops, and reiterated Friday that it wants foreign troops out of the country by late March. However, the United States, which has thousands of forces in the region, said it has not been given any such deadline.

Foreign troops also have been flying helicopter aid missions to otherwise inaccessible areas and running field hospitals. Aid organizations warn that injured survivors living in hard-to-reach areas remain untreated nearly three weeks after the disaster.

A team of medical experts flown into Paya Seumantok, a village in Aceh, on Friday said many people had sustained wounds, lacerations and compound fractures.

"Untreated, a lot of the wounds had become horribly infected," Joel Salinikio of U.S.-based International Rescue Committee said in a release.

In India, aid workers complained that government officials were hampering their travel to the federally run Andaman and Nicobar islands — where 55,000 people are living in relief camps — and seizing their supplies for their own use.

One district official, who has since been recalled, took thousands of gallons of mineral water intended for tsunami victims and used it to bathe, said Basudev Dass, joint secretary of the Indian Cross Society.

halva

01-14-2005, 06:30 AM

Discussion:

Spot: It's obvious that if increased CO2 levels in the atmosphere are the result of burning hydrocarbons, then when we are burning less after oil peaks, CO2 levels will fall. Worrying about CO2 levels, Kyoto, climate change etc is a waste of time. Stuff and nonsense. Getting all teary-eyed about 'the planet' is patronising mother nature; she will outlast us all very happily. We don't hold the ecosystem in our hands, we are products of it.

Liamj: The Oil peak will see less CO2 from OIL, but we also burn coal, coke, charcoal, wood, LNG, LPG, biogas, bagasse, crop waste, forest 'waste'... (all releasing CO2 & other greenhouse gases). These are likely to INCREASE in use as convenient oil declines. When add ecological effects of climate change, ongoing deforestation & tillage agriculture (which releases CO2 from soil humus), your freedom from evidence becomes .. embarrassing.

'We are the products of the global ecosystem'. YES Spot, and we are busy ineptly tinkering, creating a NEW ecosystem with 50% higher CO2 concentrations than when we emerged, with attendant temperature, climate & many other consequences.

Countless species and 23 human civilisations crashed & burned when their 'ecosystems' changed, yet Spot is sure its different this time because...? (Spot will now regurgitate unevidenced cliches about human ingenuity, scientific progress, market mechanisms or whatever his religion is).

Omar: The question is whether we can live in such a world where much of the arable land has turned to desert. Nature will adapt, the question at hand is will we. We aren't helping Mother Nature, she survived plenty of mass extinctions (permian - 90%), rather we are helping our long-term survival by reducing climate change.

When economies are in danger due to oil depletion, everyone will be burning coal and forests. Coal burns more CO2 per unit of energy than oil does. This is why CO2 emissions will increase despite the fact that oil usage will go down. On top of that, coal has dirty particulates that can harm the atmosphere further.

Patrickjford: Coal?

I am trying to understand how a modern industrial country like the US that has spent the last century and a half mining coal is going to be able to ramp UP production of coal, when the very energy that permits today's huge mining operations is in short supply. Have you seen that machinery? They measure fuel consumption by gallons per hour with that equipment. Now tell me how they are going to further increase production fuel increases in cost and becomes scare. Remember, we here in the US import 60% of our fuel. Tell me how we can sustain that as our dollar declines and the world chases after those remaing barrels of oil?

The bottom line is that peak oil will curtail modern coal mining practices. As mining is already producing close to coal capacity any shortages will manifest themselves with less coal production

gaiacomm

01-14-2005, 07:08 AM

Wayne:

Could you explain the orign of Chemtrails? I would like some reference. And what is the current position of governments on this issue?

halva

01-14-2005, 07:32 AM

Gaiacomm,

I told Raynolds I would no longer discuss chemtrails on this thread.

Governments do not acknowledge their existence.

The word was coined by William Thomas.

gaiacomm

01-14-2005, 07:40 AM

Gaiacomm,

I told Raynolds I would no longer discuss chemtrails on this thread.

Governments do not acknowledge their existence.

The word was coined by William Thomas.

Thats fine Wayne, I have enough data to help me understand better. You did a fine job in telling the truth. Now let others take it and do something with it. You did your part and now its up to us to take it further...and of course not here!

stuart_allsop

01-14-2005, 08:58 AM

You are entitled to your opinion. In any event, what your refer to as ?prissy prose? is actually known as formal English. Spend some time at Guide to Grammar and Style (http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/index.html) and it may increase your understanding. Jack Lynch is an Associate Professor in the English department of the Newark campus of Rutgers University. His work trumps that of some New York Times columnist, previously cited as an expert on the subject.ha ha ha

stuart_allsop

01-14-2005, 09:10 AM

Wayne:

Could you explain the orign of Chemtrails? I would like some reference. Chickiedeb has a good website on it: http://worldzone.net/international/chickiedeb/

Jay also has a great site, with the entire history of the hoax clearly laid out. You'll have to ask Jay for the link, because he moved his site a while back, and I only have the old link on hand. Jay?

And there's another good one here: http://www.watchingyou.com/kooktrails.html

And another one: http://www.nmsr.org/chemtrls.htm

And one more: http://p090.ezboard.com/bcontrailsandchemtrails22884

gaiacomm

01-14-2005, 09:19 AM

Chickiedeb has a good website on it: http://worldzone.net/international/chickiedeb/

Jay also has a great site, with the entire history of the hoax clearly laid out. You'll have to ask Jay for the link, because he moved his site a while back, and I only have the old link on hand. Jay?

And there's another good one here: http://www.watchingyou.com/kooktrails.html

And another one: http://www.nmsr.org/chemtrls.htm

And one more: http://p090.ezboard.com/bcontrailsandchemtrails22884

Excellent data. Thanks.

halva

01-14-2005, 01:19 PM

These poor dupes obviously think they've secured a future for themselves following their Pied Piper Raynolds.

Yaak

01-14-2005, 01:48 PM

These poor dupes obviously think they've secured a future for themselves following their Pied Piper Raynolds.

Wayne, you make almost as much sense as Jim Phelps does.

whitemajikman

01-14-2005, 02:03 PM

These poor dupes obviously think they've secured a future for themselves following their Pied Piper Raynolds.

Do I sense some bitterness Wayne.......

You know we could turn this thread into a balanced look at global climate change.......

and I ask you would that not be the sensible thing to do........?

considering......

WMM

Insurrectionchemistry

01-14-2005, 07:11 PM

Man-made global warming is melting away National Parks.

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0%2C1413%2C36~53~2648220%2C00.html

January 12, 2005
Alpinists' ice-dreamy mountains melting away

By Katy Human
Denver Post Staff Writer

Glacier National Park
Glacier National Park’s glaciers are melting so fast that federal computer
models predict they’ll be gone by 2030.

Where there was once cold, hard ice, there is now dirty slush and crumbling
rock.

From the peaks and slopes of many of the world's most challenging mountains,
ice and snow are dripping away, reshaping the century-old sport of alpinism
and disquieting longtime mountain climbers.

"Among alpinists who have been climbing for 20, 30 years, there is this sense
of urgency that these climbs are going away," said John Bicknell, a guide,
co-director of the Colorado Mountain School in Estes Park and a former
geologist. "For me, it'll be an immense loss. It's where I've spent most of my life.
It's the terrain I most love."

Around the world, high-altitude regions are warming and melting.
Kilimanjaro's glaciers have all but disappeared. Glacier National Park's are melting so
fast that federal computer models predict they'll be gone by 2030.

Mark Dyurgerov, a University of Colorado glacier expert and former alpinist,
calculated that the volume of the world's glaciers has dropped by about 10
percent in the past four decades. The decline is even faster in some places, he
said, including the popular climbing meccas of Alaska, the Andes and the Alps.

Regardless of whether people, natural cycles or both are to blame, the
effects are clear to climbers and guides. They're watching more rocks tumble down
cliffs, throwing away useless old books and maps, and picking their way through
miles of crumbly rock only to find climbs too dangerous to attempt.

"There are routes you cannot do anymore," said Jose Garcia, a Venezuelan who
lives and works in Boulder and climbs around the world.

Three years ago, Garcia ventured into the ranges surrounding Piramide, a
19,000-foot-plus mountain in Peru. Avalanches constantly rumbled down the peak,
loosened by warm temperatures and the changing structure of snow and ice hugging
the mountain. "That used to be a very challenging, very interesting
mountain," Garcia said. "You cannot climb it anymore. You can expect to die."

As glaciers draping the slopes of high mountains retreat, the ice moves,
Garcia explained. Crevasses yawn wider and deeper, giant cliffs of ice called
séracs break away, and melting ice or permafrost loosens boulders, which tumble
down slopes.

"Books are now obsolete," Garcia said. "Maps also."

When considering a climb, he checks the Internet for new route descriptions
and pictures, or he contacts colleagues who have been there recently.

Although mountain climbers are often labeled as risk-takers, most say the new
risks do not make climbing more fun.

"Climbers seldom look for dangerous routes," said Gary Neptune, owner of
Neptune Mountaineering in Boulder and a lifetime alpinist. "Challenging, yes, but
minimizing danger, that's part of the game."

Climbing in Africa several years ago, he and his colleagues searched for a
glacier - the known access route to a peak in the Rwenzori Mountains. It had
disappeared sometime in the past 30 years - the age of the photographs in his
guidebook, Neptune said.

He and his colleagues abandoned the climb. "It's all getting less predictable
or more extreme," Neptune said.

In the Alps, paths to some peaks have morphed from smooth glacial hikes into
dangerous scrambles up rock- strewn slopes. Grosses Wiesbachhorn - the pitch
in Austria where alpinists first used ice pitons in the 1920s - hasn't been icy
in years, Neptune said.

A few decades ago, Boulder climber and guide Bob Culp loved to practice ice
climbing at the foot of a glacier coming off France's Mont Blanc. He took his
son there a few years ago, he said, but the trail to the glacier was closed.
The two took another route to the glacier's edge.

"While we were standing there looking, a baseball-sized rock came tumbling
down and hit me in the hip," Culp said. "I wasn't hurt, but I thought, 'This is
not a place we want to be right now."'

Staff writer Katy Human can be reached at 303-820-1910 or
khuman@denverpost.com.

Yaak

01-14-2005, 08:31 PM

photo from: http://www.americazoo.com/goto/index/mammals/424.htm (http://www.americazoo.com/goto/index/mammals/424.htm)

Aoudads

Yesterday afternoon while relaxing in a canyon on The Longhorn Ranch outside of Terlingua, Texas, I saw and heard small chunks of limestone sliding down the east wall of the canyon. I looked up to see two aoudads descending the wall. I sat perfectly still and marveled at their agility and power as they approached the canyon floor. Just as they reached the bottom no more than ten yards from me, they caught my scent and quickly rescaled the crumbling limestone wall.

The aoudad’s presence here is a result of fooling with Mother Nature.
As yall know, them thar, gowldurn Texas ranchers have placed watering troughs and tanks all over the place for their farting cows.
As a result of this ever present water supply, wildlife, both native and imported, flourishes in the arid and semi-arid regions of west Texas.

As much as I enjoy observing nature, I was not able to force from my mind the image of one of those magnificent creatures slowly roasting on a spit over a hot bed of mesquite coals. Mmm, Mmm. Yum!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is quoted from:
http://www.wildlifesystems.com/aoudad.htm (http://www.wildlifesystems.com/aoudad.htm)

“Texas is home to more aoudad sheep, or what some people refer to as Barbary sheep, than their native North Africa. Aoudads are exceptionally sporty animals, combining wary nature with tough physical hardiness likened to a cape buffalo. Aoudads were originally released into the Texas wilds in the 1950’s. Releases took place in the Northwestern Panhandle region, as well as the Trans-Pecos of far West Texas.

Technically, they are not considered a pure sheep but actually have morphological and biological features of both a sheep and a goat. Mature males will have a live weight of up to 275 pounds, and both males and females grow horns, but male’s horns grow considerably larger. A respectable free range aoudad trophy will sport horns in excess of 27”, and anything over 30” is considered exceptionally good.

Aoudads have a unique pelage characterized by a solid color throughout their body which is sandy color and blends exceptionally well with their environment. Additionally, they have a striking long beard which runs from their throat all the way down to their chest, and they also sport long hair as chaps on their front legs.” (http://www.americazoo.com/goto/index/mammals/424.htm)

Yaak

01-14-2005, 09:11 PM

halva

01-14-2005, 09:39 PM

Now is the time to start some reflection on two departures from the theory and practice of warfare through the ages.

The first departure, nuclear weapons, and the justifying doctrine of 'nuclear deterrence' first formulated in the United States and then, with varying degrees of hesitancy, apparently accepted more or less everywhere.

The second, directed energy weapons, in many ways operating in a way directly contrary to the former category of 'weapons of mass destruction'.

Both types of weapons, or 'weapons', have radically transformed war, the difference between war and peace, or war and 'non-war, and all related human conventions and expectations.

'Nucear deterrence' is predicated on the peculiar idea that the value of a nuclear weapon is that it NOT be used, but that your adversary, despite your profession of belief in the doctrine of nuclear deterrence, should believe that it may be used - against him, and is accordingly 'deterred'. For a nuclear weapon to be used means that it has failed to deter, i.e. has failed.

Directed energy weapons follow an opposite logic. The point with them is that they may be used, but the enemy should never be sure whether they in fact have been used, or whether what has occurred has been a 'natural phenomenon'. Once one introduces a scenario involving more than one player using 'weapons' of this kind, the complications become very obvious.

More on this later.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-15-2005, 02:12 AM

Some more monolog to aid the discussion and recognition of Titanium methods being used in areas highly affected with air pollution.

Below are photos of rooftops near Oak Ridge (12 miles east) that are damaged by TiO2 having been used on the area to offset the huge air pollution from Oak Ridge and TVA. These tests of using TiO2 began in roughly 1994 as a result of extreme air temperatures and severe damaging storms hitting the area with many 100 year type storms occuring over the period of a few years.

When these tests began the air temp was around 100 F and the air was literally yellow with pollution and the asthma risks extreme and for some the air literally burned their skin. It was in these times the Ti methods began and some of the material that came off the roofs literally puddled up in large white clumps near gutter drains.

In the photos that follow one can see how the TiO2 tended to stick in clumps on the rooftops and smear down the asphalt shingles. These are all condos with no fireplaces and no trees to contribute to material landing on the rooftops.

and here even more dense patterns of the TiO2 sticking to the rooftops leading to these black stains. This area has never had these type problems of these black stains in the roof asphalt shingles until after these TiO2 airborne distribution methods were used on the area. Asphalt shingles are much like the creosote that telephone poles were soaked in and resist mold and fungus growth /rot for 20 years typically. Asphalt shingles are covered with fine rock to resist the sun breakdown of the shingles coating and the TiO2 adheres to this area.

It is these type stains on rooftops that are the tell-tale signs that TiO2 is being used to offset air pollution in areas. The TiO2 on asphalt shingles is a good indicator because the TiO2 captures nitrogen and UV from the sun makes lots of nitrogen emissions that act like a fertilizer (like amonia nitrate fertilizer) for molds and things to grow.

Metal roofs and painted metal roofs don't make good indicators because the zinc metal of galvanize and the metal inhibitors in paint tend to kill the molds so they don't show up the problem. One can even see how the mold growing on the rooftops due to the nitogen support from the TiO2 is inhibited by the galvanize zinc metal roof vent metals leaching down the side of the roof.

It is for this effect of titanium promoting all kinds of roof damage that newer ways using toxic metals with the titanium are being tried.

Most persons that have used TiO2 based oil paints outside well know that when one uses this type paint outside that the mold inhibitors MUST be added to the paint or in a few months the nice white paint job will turn grey mess from all the nitrogen capure effects fertilizing mold growth. In the old days, the paint contained lead that acted as the mold growth inhibitor, but problems with lead affecting kids ended that use. The very same process happens when TiO2 dustings from the sky land on asphalt rooftops and begin these black looking mold growths. It is a good first order indicator of areas having TiO2 applied.

TiO2 also serves another very special purpose in the offsetting of the formation of dangerous Fluoride-metal complexes that set off the G-protein problems. Fluoride-titanium complexes don't affect the G-proteins of cells. It is because of these effect that these methods are also usefull in curbing the mad cow, scrappie, and prion effects associated with grazing animals that eat chemically polluted grass. HF is a long term cumulative poison, and the Ti mediates this factor. It also damages rooftops with huge black stains.

IMHO,
is

halva

01-15-2005, 02:34 AM

Deutsche Bank report on Peak Oil:
http://www.dbresearch.de/PROD/DBR_INTERNET_DE-PROD/PROD0000000000181487.PDF

jayreynolds

01-15-2005, 06:22 AM

Jay also has a great site, with the entire history of the hoax clearly laid out. You'll have to ask Jay for the link, because he moved his site a while back, and I only have the old link on hand. Jay?

Actually, I attribute the coining of the term "chemtrails" to "Val Valerian", a pseudonym for former USAF Captain John Grace, a UFOOLOGIST who now uses he pseudonym "CHEM11".
While he has removed all the material from his website, trufax.org, the original text survives from an email he sent out in April, 1999, at he bottom of this webpage:
http://www.beyond-the-illusion.com/files/New-Files/20000531/death_from_the_sky.txt

jayreynolds

01-15-2005, 07:30 AM

Some more monolog to aid the discussion and recognition of Titanium methods being used in areas highly affected with air pollution.

Below are photos of rooftops near Oak Ridge (12 miles east) that are damaged by TiO2 having been used on the area to offset the huge air pollution from Oak Ridge and TVA. These tests of using TiO2 began in roughly 1994 as a result of extreme air temperatures and severe damaging storms hitting the area with many 100 year type storms occuring over the period of a few years.

When these tests began the air temp was around 100 F and the air was literally yellow with pollution and the asthma risks extreme and for some the air literally burned their skin. It was in these times the Ti methods began and some of the material that came off the roofs literally puddled up in large white clumps near gutter drains.

Jimbo, give us the actual date that you claim this occurred.
Jimbo, as a "scientist", surely you took a sample, documented by a chain of custody which included an independent witness' affidavit, and have had such a sample analyzed by a certified lab.

Now, show us the proof of abnormal levels of titanium dioxide.

In the photos that follow one can see how the TiO2 tended to stick in clumps on the rooftops and smear down the asphalt shingles. These are all condos with no fireplaces and no trees to contribute to material landing on the rooftops.

and here even more dense patterns of the TiO2 sticking to the rooftops leading to these black stains. This area has never had these type problems of these black stains in the roof asphalt shingles until after these TiO2 airborne distribution methods were used on the area.

So, your claim is that titanium dioxide makes BLACK stains?
What color "chemtrails" does spraying with titanium dioxide make, and where are your photos of this happening in levels large enough to make "clumps" on rooftops?

Personally I see no proof that titanium dioxide, which is ordinarily WHITE is present at all, and no proof that the photos shown are even taken in Tennessee at all.

Jimbo, you really should do proper research before adding new hoaxes to your repertoire.
Looking at your second photo:
http://www.doewatch.com/Tistains1.jpg

I notice that the black stains are absent in the drip line below the appurtenances of the drain vent pipes. These flashings are galvanized metal. Galvanized metal is coated with zinc.
I also notice that you don't include any metal roofs in your photos, which, if sprayed with black material, should also show staining. Your failure to show such "controls" makes your gambit pretty obvious, Jimbo. You are hoaxing again, stooopid.

NOW, PREPARE YOURSELF TO BE DEBUNKED!

Jimbo, the roofs you show appear to be stained by an ordinary algae called Goeocapsa Magma.
The problem is well known and entirely preventable. The typical remedy is to 'poison' the rooftop environment by attaching a copper or ZINC strip along the ridge, which allows enough of either metal to leach out and stop growth of the algae.

But don't take my word for it, or Jimbo's either. Ask the experts:
http://www.askthebuilder.com/082_Black_Algae_Stains_On_Asphalt_Shingles.shtml

DEAR TIM: I've got a problem. 3 years ago I had a new fiberglass asphalt shingle roof installed. It was the same color as my old roof, a light tan. Within the past 6 months several areas of the roof have developed a dark, mildew-like stain. It is spreading. The climate hasn't changed and there are no trees that shade my roof. What in the devil is going on?

http://www.casma.ca/cas_tech13.shtml
For anyone with a new roof construction, it is possible to install a zinc metal or other galvanized type metal strip near the ridge of the roof. As the metal ions oxidize and erode off of the metal strip, they wash down the roof inhibiting cellular algae growth. (This is why the staining on algae discolored roofs is usually less or non-existent below metal roof attachments such as flashings, aluminum-sided dormers, antennae anchor wires, etc.) Please consult your roofing material wholesaler or dealer for information on these types of metal strips.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/_l/en_US/_s.155/117267/_s.155/115613
algae danger zones

NEXT!

jayreynolds

01-15-2005, 08:15 AM

Hey, Jimbo, Wayne.

Looks like these people haven't bought into your hoax:
http://www.sunshine-project.org/

gaiacomm

01-15-2005, 11:08 AM

"Annuit coeptis."

Yaak

01-15-2005, 12:45 PM

"Annuit coeptis."

The official English translation of "Annuit Cœptis" is:

"He (God) has favored our undertakings."

http://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/coeptis.html

------------------------------------------------------

"Klaatu Barada Nikto"

gaiacomm

01-15-2005, 12:48 PM

The official English translation of "Annuit Cœptis" is:

"He (God) has favored our undertakings."

http://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/coeptis.html

------------------------------------------------------

"Klaatu Barada Nikto"

Thank you!

Insurrectionchemistry

01-15-2005, 02:46 PM

I am glad to see that all recognize that God is on my side, and that the JR mob has lost.

IMHO,
is

jayreynolds

01-15-2005, 03:02 PM

I am glad to see that all recognize that God is on my side, and that the JR mob has lost. IMHO,is

He he he. Jimbo.
Just admit you've been debunked.
Wayne has read the whole thing already.

Wayne got debunked last week and made an enemy out of RossGelbspan,
This week you tried a stoopid hoax and got quickly debunked.
Looks like your 'god' has forsaken you, buddy.

Wayne Hall and Jim Phelps are the big losers around here.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-15-2005, 03:35 PM

The Rush into the "Dark Ages" by Jay Reynolds and his mob is caught here for all to see, as new book exposes their scams and their quest for a fall:

http://rense.com/general61/wwhyh.htm

Why The West Is
Riding For A Fall
By Paul Sheehan
The Sydney Morning Herald
1-15-5

A little book with a big title, Dark Age Ahead, published last year, tracked
the ebbs and flows of civilisations over centuries. It came to this chilling
conclusion: "We show signs of rushing headlong into a Dark Age." Not slipping
towards a Dark Age. Rushing.

Dark Age Ahead (Random House, New York), was written by Jane Jacobs. She may
be almost unknown in this country but has been famous in North America for 40
years, making her name writing about how communities thrive or decay. "Jane is
like a rock star in Canada," her publisher, David Ebershoff, told me. (Jacobs
is American but lives in Toronto.) Her dark age warning was directed at the
United States but she also wants the rest of the West to heed the signs. She
thinks Western culture is not as sturdy as it looks: "Writing, printing, and the
internet give a false sense of security about the permanence of culture. Most
of the million details of a complex, living culture are transmitted neither
in writing nor pictorially. Instead, cultures live through word and mouth and
example ... [and] countless nuances that are assimilated only through
experience." AdvertisementAdvertisement

She singles out several pillars of culture that she believes are "insidiously
decaying":

Community and family: A culture of consumerism and debt is working against
long-term cultural regeneration. People are choosing houses over families,
consumption over fertility, debt over discipline. "This bubble will burst," she
says.

Higher education: "Credentialling, not educating, has become the primary
business of North American universities." More and more people are being churned
through corporatised credential factories. And not just in North American
universities.

Bad science: Huge numbers of mediocrities with flimsy credentials are
sprouting jargon in defence of outdated orthodoxies. Jacobs is especially brutal
about economists.

Bad taxes: "Fiscal accountability of public money has almost disappeared from
the modern world." Governments buy elections and suffocate innovation. "False
image-making has become a very big business throughout North America and is a
staple of the US government. Legions of hired liars labour to disconnect
reality from all manner of images."

Jacobs sees junk culture creeping over society, and skills being exported
wholesale to low-wage countries in the name of consumerism and corporate profit,
and communalism in decline. "A culture is unsalvageable if stabilising forces
themselves become ruined and irrelevant. This is what I fear for our own
culture."

What makes her fears more troubling is that they are complemented and
amplified by another substantial public intellectual, Jared Diamond, a Pulitzer
Prize-winning author and professor of geography and environmental health sciences
at the University of California, Los Angeles. His latest book, Collapse: How
Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed, will be published in Australia next month
by Penguin. Its thesis was summarised in an essay published in The Best
American Essays 2004, entitled The Last Americans:

"One of the disturbing facts of history is that so many civilisations
collapse. Few people, however, least of all our politicians, realise that a primary
cause of collapse of those societies has been the destruction of the
environmental resources on which they depended. Fewer still appreciate that many of
those civilisations share a sharp curve of decline. Indeed, a society's demise may
begin only a decade or two after it reaches its peak population, wealth and
power ...

"Because peak population, wealth, resource consumption, and waste production
are accompanied by peak environmental impact - approaching the limit at which
impact outstrips resources - we can now understand why declines of societies
tend to follow swiftly on their peaks."

Diamond's warning appears when both the US and Australia have never enjoyed
so much material wealth yet had so much environmental poverty. No advanced
economy is as dependent on natural resources as Australia's. On Wednesday came the
news that Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth face serious water shortages
within 10 years. Research showed that without drastic changes to Sydney's
water supply and consumption, the city faces a dire shortfall in 25 years.

As a non-doctrinaire geographer, Diamond is unmoved by the ideology of
consumerism: "Foremost among misconceptions is that we must balance the environment
against human needs. That reasoning is exactly upside down...

"Another popular misconception is that we can trust in technology to solve
our problems ... All of our current environmental problems are unanticipated
harmful consequences of our existing technology. There is no basis for believing
that technology will miraculously stop causing new and unanticipated problems
while it is solving the problems that it previously produced ... We think we
are different. In fact, of course, all those powerful societies of the past
thought that they too were unique, right up to the moment of their collapse."

In one of his case studies of catastrophic cultural hubris, he writes: "Why
did the kings and nobles not recognise and solve these problems? A major reason
was that their attention was evidently focused on the short-term concerns of
enriching themselves, waging wars, erecting monuments, competing with one
another, and extracting enough food from the peasants to support all those
activities."

Sound familiar?

Unlike Jane Jacobs, who describes cultural amnesia and the hollowing out of
human relationships, Diamond's theme is driven by another form of short-termism
- environmental decay. He details the inverse wealth of environmental
problems in the US, including water restrictions in southern California, Arizona and
the Florida Everglades, forest fires resulting from logging practices, farm
land lost to salinisation, drought and climate change on the Great Plains,
worsening air quality in the large population centres, problems with water quality,
and inundations by exotic invaders such as harbour-choking zebra mussels.

"We have already lost American chestnut trees, the Grand Banks cod fishery,
and the Monterey sardine fishery; we are in the process of losing swordfish and
tuna and Chesapeake Bay oysters and elm trees; and we are losing topsoil."

Sound familiar?

Con't----

Insurrectionchemistry

01-15-2005, 03:36 PM

The message in Collapse applies to the lethal combinations of consumerist
excess and environmental ignorance that has occurred across cultures and ages.
And his dissection of decline, along with the warnings contained in Dark Age
Ahead, are far from unusual among American scholars. No less than six serious
books about US imperial overstretch were published last year, in addition to
dozens of anti-Bush, anti-war tracts. All the books appeared in the wake of the
Iraq war and their collective message led the critic Tony Judt, in a review of
all six books for The New York Review of Books to conclude: "With our growing
income inequalities and child poverty; our underperforming schools and
disgracefully inadequate health services ... our bellicose religiosity and our cult of
guns and executions; our cavalier unconcern for institutions, treaties, and
laws - our own and other people's, we should not be surprised that America has
ceased to be an example to the world."

The world is biting back. As Diamond argues: "The cost of our homegrown
environment problems adds up to a large fraction of our gross national product,
even without mentioning the cost we incur from environmental problems overseas,
such as the military operations they inspire. Even the mildest of bad scenarios
for our future includes a gradual economic decline, as happened to the Roman
and British empires. Actually [America's] economic decline is already under
way. Just check the numbers for our national debt, yearly government budget
deficit and unemployment statistics..."

Social anxieties in the West have cohered around the threat of terrorism, an
anxiety fanned by the Bush Administration, but the toll of terrorism pales
into relative insignificance when compared with the thousands of small tragedies
that Western society deems acceptable for the convenience, efficiency, freedom
and glamour associated with consumerism, above all, the motor vehicle.
Australia is certainly no exception. Over the past 50 years, while the numbers of
Australians killed in wars and terrorist attacks totalled less than 1000, more
than 135,000 people were killed on Australians roads.

Today, instead of responding intelligently to the dangerous dependence on oil
from the hair-trigger Middle East, consumers in the US and Australia, with
the encouragement of government, have reacted with a historic boom in sales of
four-wheel-drives and other heavyweight, fuel-guzzling urban combat vehicles
that have become symbols of this era. If ever there was a metaphor for
complacency...

Jane Jacobs regards the cultural addiction to the motor vehicle as the single
biggest contributor to civic decline: "Not TV or illegal drugs, but the
automobile has been the chief destroyer of American communities ... One can drive
today for miles through American suburbs and never glimpse a human being on
foot in a public space, a human being outside a car or a truck ... While people
possess a community, they usually understand that they can't afford to lose it;
but after it is lost, gradually even the memory of what was lost is lost. In
miniature, this is the malady of Dark Ages."

Cultural amnesia, excess consumption and environmental decline are more
dangerous than terrorism, but we are so awash with propaganda we don't even notice.
Or care. Warnings of mass migration

For 9000 years, the most advanced civilisation in the world was centred
around the Fertile Crescent. Almost every major innovation adopted in Europe
originated in the civilisation based on the Tigres-Euphrates river system. Today,
the fertile crescent is a sinkhole, fertile only in creating trouble for the
rest of the world. Today, most of the region goes by the names Iraq and Iran.

Decline began with environmental degradation. Excessive irrigation and
land-clearing led to salinisation and desertification, a process that has been going
on for centuries. As Jared Diamond predicted eight years ago in Guns, Germs
and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies, for which he won the Pulitzer Prize:
"Today's ephemeral wealth ... based on the single non-renewable resource of
oil, conceals the region's long-standing fundamental poverty and difficulty
feeding itself."

Stagnation is now accompanied by growing resentment of the West. "Cultural
xenophobia is a frequent sequel to a society's decline from cultural vigour,"
writes Jane Jacobs in Dark Age Ahead (see main story). "A fortress of
fundamentalist mentality not only shuts itself off from dynamic influences originating
outside but also, as a side effect, ceases influencing the outside world."

In her study of the decline of civilisations, Jacobs found that significant
population flux was a byproduct of decline. "The collapse of Rome and the onset
of its famous Dark Age coincided with a great migration of peoples."

Today, the movement of people escaping economic, political and cultural
suffocation has reached a scale that creates a form of reverse-colonialism.

Diamond, in his new book Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed,
describes mass movement of people as one of the consequences of both disruption
and globalism, which includes the export of problems, not just products, and
people, what Diamond terms "unstoppable numbers of immigrants, both legal and
illegal, arriving by boat, truck, train, plane and on foot".

The mass movement of people over and around sovereign barriers has prompted
yet another big thinker to give yet another big cultural warning, this time
from Samuel Huntington, the Harvard professor who became famous for The Clash of
Civilisations and the Remaking of World Order (1996). He has produced a
sequel, Who Are We? The Challenges to America's National Identity which portrays the
United States as facing an unprecedented cultural challenge brought on by
massive immigration from Latin America.

"Mexican immigration is leading toward the demographic reconquista of areas
Americans took from Mexico by force in the 1830s and 1840s ... No other
immigrant group in American history has asserted or been able to assert a historical
claim to American territory ... American society and culture could eventually
change into a country of two languages, two cultures and two peoples. This
will not only transform America. It will also have deep consequences for
Hispanics, who will be in America but not of it."

Ten years ago, Huntington predicted social tensions in Europe caused by the
spread of Islam. Like Diamond's, his predictions have aged well. Europe's birth
rates have plunged while the birth rate of Muslims in Europe is three times
that of non-Muslims. The number of Muslims in the European Community has
doubled in 20 years to 16 million, or 3.5 per cent of the population. By 2015,
Europe's Muslim population will have doubled again to 32 million, while the
non-Muslim population remains static or declines. By 2050, Muslims will constitute
about 20 per cent of Europe's population, and 25 per cent in France and Holland.

Cultural fault-lines have already emerged in Holland, Sweden, Denmark and
France, with a political backlash against rising crime and immigration in what
were once the bastions of Western liberalism.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/.html

Yaak

01-15-2005, 06:02 PM

foot_soldier

01-15-2005, 06:55 PM

Re: BS from Rense:

Here is the original source link:

Why the West is riding for a fall
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Paul-Sheehan/Why-the-West-is-riding-for-a-fall/2005/01/14/1105582711593.html?oneclick=true

Geez, you just never quit, do you Yaak? Do you really imagine that everyone other than yourself is completely lacking in ability to recognize what is and isn't "BS"? I read this article yesterday online at the Sydney Morning Herald site and thought it was very insightful. That you don't agree with it is not necessarily an indictment of its worth. Believe it or not there are other frames of reference in this world besides your own.

jayreynolds

01-15-2005, 07:45 PM

[color=green]Re: BS from Rense

Hey, Deborah, you are a fake "climate" activist just as much as Wayne is a fake
"chemtrails" activist, and Jim Phelps is a fake "nuclear" activist.

Each of you are guilty of perpetrating multiple hoaxes.
Each of you have been caught doing so and debunked multiple times.
Each of you have been exposed for who and what you really are.
You are nobodies, figments of your own imaginations, worth nothing to anyone else.
You are all outcasts among genuine activists, considered unwelcome
burdens even among fellow hoaxers, and are each at the bottom of your games.

Today, Jim Phelps was exposed trying to pass off algae stains on rooftops as being the result of spraying of titanium dioxide. He hasn't been able to mount even a single word in defense, because he is well aware there is no defense against the truth.

Last week, Wayne Hall tried to pass off excerpts of an email sent by Ross Gelbspan, one of the most prolific "climate change" activists in the nation, as showing support for the "chemtrai;s" hoax. One simple phone call to Gelbspan made it quite clear that Hall had deliberately misquoted Gelbspan, who denied having been told anything about "chemtrails". Hall was forced to remove the posting in disgrace, and word is quickly spreading among US "climate change" activists that chemmies are hoaxers and liars like Wayne Hall.

Week before that, Deborah was asked in what way she has personally undertaken to utilize pollution-free energy. She was forced to admit that, even though she could opt to purchase solar-produced electricity for all her uses, in reality she only buys 10 cents worth per day, or $3.00 worth per month. She revealed herself to be a NIMBY activist(not in my backyard).
Deborah is a fake, a fraud who doesn't practice what she preaches.

Each of these three are well aware of what they are doing. I and many others have pointed these things out before. It appears we must continue pointing them out, for these three simply haven't learned their lessons well enough yet.

JIMBO PHELPS, do you have anything at all to say about your disgraceful exposure this morning in your "titanium dioxide making rooftops black" hoax?? The debunking is all right here:
http://ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=220875&postcount=5152

jayreynolds

01-15-2005, 07:49 PM

So, what is the point of reading it? Why do you drag it over here, Jimmy, knowing that it might be pure B.S.?

Jimbo is desperately trying the "oh, if I spam the board with abunch of trivia maybe they won't see what an ass I made of myself this morning" game. Whenever these chemmie types make a boo-boo, you can be sure they follow it with 2-3 pages of spam to cover it up.

jayreynolds

01-15-2005, 07:59 PM

For a nuclear weapon to be used means that it has failed to deter, i.e. has failed.

Tell that to the Japanese, Wayne.

Directed energy weapons follow an opposite logic. The point with them is that they may be used, but the enemy should never be sure whether they in fact have been used, or whether what has occurred has been a 'natural phenomenon'. Once one introduces a scenario involving more than one player using 'weapons' of this kind, the complications become very obvious.More on this later.

Wayne, a warning to you. You are approaching a technical area in which you have no competence. you are most likely following the lead of someone whom you might believe has knowledge superior to your own. Nothing could be further from the truth. The 'monstershouters' promoting this 'directed energey' hoax are, if anything, less able to articulate their theories than the chemmies were, and will be just as easily debunked as they were. Do you really wish to travel down that road?

If so, bring it on, and prepare yourself to be exposed.

foot_soldier

01-15-2005, 08:25 PM

Reynolds, your vicious invective means nothing to me. You are a very small man on a very small mission.

foot_soldier

01-15-2005, 09:16 PM

Yaak pontificates:
.....Since there is no way of determining the validity of much of the material at Rense.com, I do not look at the site.....
The "validity" of anything in print, online or off, can be determined by doing a little research on it.

You have a pretty inflated view of your importance in the scheme of things. Do you seriously imagine that you alone will rid the world of all that which, to use your rather florid characterization, "costs people their lives and personal property"?

It's nice that you can execute this noble mission from the comfort of your home. Must be a full-time job.

halva

01-15-2005, 09:52 PM

halva

01-15-2005, 10:04 PM

Reynolds, your vicious invective means nothing to me. You are a very small man on a very small mission.

So Footsoldier has decided that 'hell ain't a bad place to be'.

I hope that she, who is obviously now exposing herself to Raynolds' crap, and I, who am not, do not now starting working at cross-purposes.

foot_soldier

01-15-2005, 10:19 PM

I "decide" for myself alone what to do with my time and energy where issues of interest to me are concerned.

And I am not re-entering a participatory slot on this thread. I just happen to be in the mood tonight to lob a few well-deserved grenades in the direction of the deserving parties.

Period.

halva

01-15-2005, 10:52 PM

Here is a press release that you may find interesting:

http://www.feasta.org/documents/energy/BA_press_release.ht

It presents plan for climate change that incorporate knowledge about oil peak.

World scarcity of oil and gas creates chance to accelerate response to climate change

Call for establishment of fossil fuel buyers' cartel

The recent peak in oil prices was due to the depletion of the world's reserves rather than temporary supply problems in a number of countries, Feasta, an Irish-based research organisation claimed at the COP-10 climate conference in Buenos Aires today. (Monday, December 13th)

"The climate change discussions taking place here are based on the assumption that there is plenty of oil and gas still available to power the world economy," Richard Douthwaite of Feasta said. "That's just not true. The world's production of oil is about as high as it will ever go and natural gas production will stop rising in the next ten years."

Almost half of all the easily-extractable oil on the planet had already been used and gas stocks were depleting fast, he said. As a result, the total amount of energy available from both fuels would decline after 2015 at about 2% a year, perhaps half the rate required to bring prevent a catastrophic climate change.

"The big problem is coal. There's plenty of that and it's a really dirty fuel. If we can stop coal production increasing to compensate for the reduced supplies of oil and gas, we will have taken a giant step towards solving the climate change problem," Douthwaite, an economist, said.

He was speaking at the launch of a Feasta document, The Three Crises: Oil Depletion, Climate Change and International Debt. This proposes the establishment of an international organisation to limit coal production and to allocate the remaining oil and gas supplies on a fair basis between the peoples of the world.

"We need to take action now because high oil and gas prices threaten to collapse the world economy and this would do serious damage to both energy producers and consumers" Douthwaite said.

"Accordingly, Feasta is proposing that the energy-importing countries set up a fossil energy buyers' cartel to negotiate with OPEC, the oil and gas producers' cartel, and with the coal producing countries. The buyers' cartel would set a fair, stable price with the producers for their output which would compensate them for restricting their production and enable them to afford to make their reserves last longer. It would then distribute the fossil fuels it had bought amongst the consumers in a way which ensured that everyone * not only the rich - got a share."

The distribution system Feasta suggests ties in with Contraction and Convergence, the leading proposal for allocating the rights to emit greenhouse gases in the post Kyoto Protocol period after 2012. This involves the annual (or more frequent) distribution of permits giving the right to emit a certain amount of the main greenhouse gas, carbon dioxide, to everyone on the planet.

"People would sell their emissions permits to a bank when they got them, just as if they were a foreign currency," Douthwaite said. The banks would then sell the permits on to fossil energy distribution companies which would pay the fuel producers the price set by the cartel and also hand over sufficient permits to cover the amount of CO2 that would be released when the fuel was used.

An international inspectorate would check that this was done. The system would mean that everyone in the world got an income from selling their permits to compensate them for having to pay higher prices for every product made with fossil energy.

Douthwaite added that, if the fossil energy buyers' cartel was set up now rather than waiting until after 2012, it would immediately make the world economy much more stable because it would remove the risk of high energy prices causing a depression. Moreover, by preventing coal production increasing, it would be a major step towards solving the climate crisis.

"Above all, the cartel would ensure that the poorer peoples of the world are not denied all the benefits of fossil energy use. They would get an income which would otherwise have been a temporary windfall gain for the fossil energy producing countries which the latter would have been unable to spend and which would have caused a global recession. This way, the money paid to poor countries for their permits will go straight back to the industrial countries from which it came to buy export goods."

Support for the Feasta proposal has already come from two British organisations attending the climate event, the New Economics Foundation and the developers of the Contraction and Convergence approach, the Global Commons Institute.

"Many people at this conference believe that the world community is responding to the climate crisis much too slowly and that we should not wait until 2012 before doing anything more" Douthwaite said. "The Feasta proposal provides an ' everyone' s a winner' way in which we can respond now."

The full text of the Feasta proposal, The Three Crises: Oil Prices, Climate Change and International Debt, can be downloaded from http://www.feasta.org/documents/energy/three_crises.pdf (PDF document, 416K)

Note to Editors:

Feasta (the word means 'in the future' in Irish) is an international network of people interested in establishing the characteristics of a truly sustainable global economy. It has members in Sweden, Germany, Austria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Canada, South Africa, the United States, India, Australia and New Zealand. Based in Dublin, its English title is the Foundation for the Economics of Sustainability.

Further information on oil and gas depletion can be found at: http://www.feasta.org/documents/energylinks/energylinks.htm

PDF version

halva

01-16-2005, 03:09 AM

The doctrine of nuclear deterrence had not been formulated at the time of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

The nuclear bombings were justified on the grounds that they were needed not to 'deter' Japan but to end the war.

It could have been argued of course that the bombs were dropped in order to 'deter' the Japanese from persisting in their refusal to accept unconditional surrender. But this was not the kind of language that was prevalent then.

‘Unconditional surrender’ included non-insistence on defending the constitutional status of the emperor. This was the real sticking point in the final months of the war. The US wanted to impose its own republican institutions on Japan, or at least to appear to want to.

None of the Japanese military leaders were prepared to take responsibility for violating existing constitutional legality as the demand for abdication of the emperor would have entailed. And there was no republican mass movement in Japan against the emperor that could have been covertly encouraged by the United States.

Even after the bombings no military leaders would agree to dishonour themselves by violating the constitution. Many preferred to commit hara-kiri.

It was the emperor himself who had to accept ‘unconditional surrender’, in this way reverting to the status of an absolute monarch and himself violating the constitution.

Now that the Americans had acquired – in the person of the emperor – their collaborator in violating Japanese constitutional legality, they had no choice but to back off from their demand that he should abdicate. Who else was prepared to collaborate?

This, then, was the first contradiction. Japanese ‘democracy’ was instituted by the act of an absolute monarch.

Subsidiary rituals were elaborated in the coming period with the help of the ‘peace movements’ of the world and the proponents of ‘world government’. Worship of the emperor in Japan was supplemented by worship of nuclear weapons at the annual commemorations of Hiroshima Day and Nagasaki Day.

The doctrine of ‘nuclear deterrence’ was gradually developed by the U.S. after World War II in response to Soviet (but also – mainly - Democratic American) initiatives for universal nuclear disarmament.

Initially the predominant American strategic view was that the US should utilise its newfound monopoly of nuclear weapons possession by demanding heavy political concessions from the Soviet Union and its allies.

But Secretary of State Byrnes found that this was easier said than done and that the threat of nuclear bombardment was of little use in persuading the Soviets to go against what they saw as their vital interests.

Where was the nuclear ‘deterrence’ then?

Obviously for the idea of nuclear deterrence to really take hold it had to be presented as something that could cut both ways, i.e. that could deter not only Soviet aggression but also ‘Western’ aggression.

There was a ready-made audience for such conceptions among Communists and their supporters, and in fact tacit encouragement was given to their views, up to an including toleration of the presence of Soviet nuclear spies at Los Alamos until such times as the Soviets had acquired nuclear weapons of their own. (Their first atomic bomb was a carbon copy of the Nagasaki bomb).

Then it was safe to blow the cover of the spies, at the same time gradually encouraging the idea that ‘nuclear deterrence’ potentially worked to the benefit of BOTH sides of the Cold War.

And this popular misconception has so far survived fifteen years of counter-evidence since the collapse of the Berlin Wall and implosion of the Soviet Union. Not to mention revocation of the ‘right’ of ‘nuclear deterrence’ to ‘rogue states’ such as Iran, Iraq, North Korea.

So nuclear deterrence was allegedly beneficial to the USSR throughout the Cold War because it ‘prevented war’. But the 'benefits' of nuclear deterrence must not be permitted to ‘rogue states’ today.

The soup in the head of journalistic 'experts' on these subjects is never put through any conceptual filter that I have seen.

jayreynolds

01-16-2005, 07:14 AM

The doctrine of nuclear deterrence had not been formulated at the time of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki..

Wayne, when you respond directly to my comments you expose yourself as a liar.
You make it perfectly clear to Jijmbo, Deborah, and everybody else that, while you continue to pretend that you have ignore-listed debunkers here, you have done no such thing.

They all know you are lying to them.
Everybody knows.

Not only do you lie to them in regards to the ignore-listing, you also berate them for not ignore-listing, while not doing so yourself!
What a hypocrite!

Man, you sure know how to lead and inspire confidence by word and action, Wayne.
What a screwup!

Is it no wonder Deborah does what she wants, when all she is really doing is the same as you?

You aren't her superior. Your poisoning of Ross Gelbspan and all his climate activist friends in regards to "chemtrails" should have been a real wake-up call to Deborah. She held Gelbspan in high regard, and you had to go and be the spoiler. You really blew it, bigtime!

That little episode cost your cult dearly, and though you have tried to ignore it, word is spreading quickly about what you people are up to, you'll never again get a seat at the "climate change" table, you won't even get to sit on the floor and eat crumbs. No wonder you have had to run and hide at a closed forum, but also no wonder you had to come outside once it became clear to Deborah just what a moron you really are.

jayreynolds

01-16-2005, 08:05 AM

Reynolds, your vicious invective means nothing to me. You are a very small man on a very small mission.

And you, my dear, are a very small girl afraid to even post under her real name.
You also reveal your hypocrisy by talking big about "climate change", but when the truth comes out, you are very small in your own personal dedication to alternative energy.

It turns out you have made a personal choice to base your own lifestyle on fossil fuels, when you could easily purchase solar energy.

What a hypocrite.

I also see that Wayne features your commentary as "colleague" over at CTC.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7846

He quotes you as saying:
Colleague: Dr. Cornell’s point here is that ‘laying jet contrails’ (in the upper troposphere) as a methodology to achieve a net planetary cooling effect simply will not work as it has now been conclusively determined that aviation contrails and resulting persistent contrail cirrus actually exert a net WARMING effect on the atmosphere.

Note that she is not referencing the loading of the STRATOSPHERE with particulate emissions, which is an ENTIRELY different matter. One thing I can say here, and I think it's important to keep this in mind, is that what we are seeing is taking place in the upper troposphere - NOT in the stratosphere where the by now familiar-to-us-all Tellerian aerosol climate mitigation proposals are specifically designed to be deployed.

Deborah, you make it abundantly clear you know this whole 'deep shield' idea is wrong.
You know it has no basis in fact or foundation.
You know it is all a lie.

WHY THE HELL DO YOU STILL CLING to your old chemmie cult?

Wayne also has you saying:
"Seriously, if you want to see just one example of a very good contribution in this direction, please consider getting a copy of the following book: ‘Boiling Point’ by Ross Gelbspan. Believe me, Gelbspan has done his homework in the science department. I know this because I already have most of the material to which he refers in his excellent summation of climate change research to date. This was a very difficult job he took on, interpreting this material for the lay public, and he has more than done it justice."

Deborah, just yesterday Jim Phelps, who you are well aware is a nutcase liar, got caught in a hoax trying to misrepresent algae satins on some rooftops as being due to spraying of titanium dioxide. I debunked him thoroughly, yet you remain silent here and at CTC as he tries to spread the hoax over there.

Deborah, WHY THE HELL DO YOU STILL HANG WITH LIARS like Phelps and morons like Wayne, who spoiled all possibility of cooperation with Gelbspan by deliberately misquoting him, and making him an enemy of the "chemtrails" cult?

Lastly, Wayne has you saying:
"You are leaving out a crucial component of the total picture here and that is the absolutely necessary emergence of a critical mass of public will to face and begin to deal with reality where this issue is concerned. There is a great deal of reliable information out there but it is useful only in proportion to the general public’s willingness to at least consider it. We have enough scientists, and they are doing a great job under less-than-ideal political circumstances. What we need is more educators. "

Deborah, what you say is true. However, you have long chosen to ally yourself, not with science, but with quacks, nutcases, liars, and their followers. You have promulgated misinformation, disinformation, and outright lunacy, and associated yourself with original sources of the hoax,

How do you ever expect a critical mass to emerge from such behavior?

What sort of "reliable information" do you expect people to absorb when you associate yourself with lunatics and lairs?

What real reason does the "general public's willingness to at least consider it" when you willfully promote hoaxes and then aid and abet in the coverup when they begin to get exposed?

Deborah, all these are questions you have to consider, questions vital to any altruistic goal you might aspire to.

Because to ignore them is to ignore the reality that slaps you in the face, the reality that until you begin telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, even to the extent of debunking the hoaxes you have participated in, and those others you know about, you are doomed to failure.

jayreynolds

01-16-2005, 08:11 AM

So Footsoldier has decided that 'hell ain't a bad place to be'.

I hope that she, who is obviously now exposing herself to Raynolds' crap, and I, who am not, do not now starting working at cross-purposes.

Wayne, she knows, I know, everybody knows. You haven't ignore-listed anything or anyone on this thread. Give it up, man. You are becoming a laughingstock.

You are the emperor with no clothes, HA!
Welcome to HELL ON EARTH FOR LIARS, Wayne!

jayreynolds

01-16-2005, 08:25 AM

What I don't understand is why someone would associate their self with a loser (W. H.) and a pathological liar (J. P.) when they don't have to. Did you see the load of techno-rubble Phelps dumped on Chemtrail Central? Do you believe that people like Lynn George/Orwell knew/Show me Truth/SmT know whether or not Phelps' posting is B.S?

Exactly, Yaak. Deborah knows damn well about much of the insiders view of hoaxes which have gone on. She even actively participated in the establishment of the barium, titanium, and aluminum hoaxes herself. She saw Jim Phelps get shot down dead yesterday when he tried to portray the rooftop pictures as titanium spray. She could go straight over to the CTC board where Jimbo has posted the same bunk and let people know whata load of crap it is.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7857

But Deborah just doesn't seem to have grown up yet. She seems to still think and act like an ugly high school girl who is involved in a clique, and is so low in self-esteem she's afraid to speak out, even when she knows something is totally wrong.

This has gone on for so long, even though I've been bringing it out in the open for years, that I have considered more than once whether Deborah is incapable of distinguishing fact from fantasy. So often she makes private statements which seem to show she does, but then publicly she does exactly the opposite. It's perverse, unaccountable for, and perhaps a sign that she may not really be 'all there'.

Is there any other explanation?

gaiacomm

01-16-2005, 08:26 AM

JR and company are quiet busy attempting to derail the Chemtrail issue....but you can't change an idea unless you have another idea!

jayreynolds

01-16-2005, 08:38 AM

JR and company are quiet busy attempting to derail the Chemtrail issue....but you can't change an idea unless you have another idea!

Lance, the "chemtrails" hoax is a train traveling "off the rails" already. It's not a real "issue" at all, it's just an old hoax whose time to die has come.

here's another idea, one that Jimbo Phelps is eventually going to have to stop ignoring, and deal with. It's not going away, Jimbo, and neither am I. What are you going to do when it gets debunked at CTC in front of everybody? How are you going to ignore that?

Or will you start a rant about "Jewish algae" you created at Oak Ridge?
HA!

Some more monolog to aid the discussion and recognition of Titanium methods being used in areas highly affected with air pollution.

Below are photos of rooftops near Oak Ridge (12 miles east) that are damaged by TiO2 having been used on the area to offset the huge air pollution from Oak Ridge and TVA. These tests of using TiO2 began in roughly 1994 as a result of extreme air temperatures and severe damaging storms hitting the area with many 100 year type storms occuring over the period of a few years.

When these tests began the air temp was around 100 F and the air was literally yellow with pollution and the asthma risks extreme and for some the air literally burned their skin. It was in these times the Ti methods began and some of the material that came off the roofs literally puddled up in large white clumps near gutter drains.
http://ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=220830&postcount=5149

Jimbo, give us the actual date that you claim this occurred.
Jimbo, as a "scientist", surely you took a sample, documented by a chain of custody which included an independent witness' affidavit, and have had such a sample analyzed by a certified lab.

Now, show us the proof of abnormal levels of titanium dioxide.

In the photos that follow one can see how the TiO2 tended to stick in clumps on the rooftops and smear down the asphalt shingles. These are all condos with no fireplaces and no trees to contribute to material landing on the rooftops.

and here even more dense patterns of the TiO2 sticking to the rooftops leading to these black stains. This area has never had these type problems of these black stains in the roof asphalt shingles until after these TiO2 airborne distribution methods were used on the area.

So, your claim is that titanium dioxide makes BLACK stains?
What color "chemtrails" does spraying with titanium dioxide make, and where are your photos of this happening in levels large enough to make "clumps" on rooftops?

Personally I see no proof that titanium dioxide, which is ordinarily WHITE is present at all, and no proof that the photos shown are even taken in Tennessee at all.

Jimbo, you really should do proper research before adding new hoaxes to your repertoire.
Looking at your second photo:
http://www.doewatch.com/Tistains1.jpg

I notice that the black stains are absent in the drip line below the appurtenances of the drain vent pipes. These flashings are galvanized metal. Galvanized metal is coated with zinc.
I also notice that you don't include any metal roofs in your photos, which, if sprayed with black material, should also show staining. Your failure to show such "controls" makes your gambit pretty obvious, Jimbo. You are hoaxing again, stooopid.

NOW, PREPARE YOURSELF TO BE DEBUNKED!

Jimbo, the roofs you show appear to be stained by an ordinary algae called Goeocapsa Magma.
The problem is well known and entirely preventable. The typical remedy is to 'poison' the rooftop environment by attaching a copper or ZINC strip along the ridge, which allows enough of either metal to leach out and stop growth of the algae.

But don't take my word for it, or Jimbo's either. Ask the experts:
http://www.askthebuilder.com/082_Black_Algae_Stains_On_Asphalt_Shingles.shtml

DEAR TIM: I've got a problem. 3 years ago I had a new fiberglass asphalt shingle roof installed. It was the same color as my old roof, a light tan. Within the past 6 months several areas of the roof have developed a dark, mildew-like stain. It is spreading. The climate hasn't changed and there are no trees that shade my roof. What in the devil is going on?

http://www.casma.ca/cas_tech13.shtml
For anyone with a new roof construction, it is possible to install a zinc metal or other galvanized type metal strip near the ridge of the roof. As the metal ions oxidize and erode off of the metal strip, they wash down the roof inhibiting cellular algae growth. (This is why the staining on algae discolored roofs is usually less or non-existent below metal roof attachments such as flashings, aluminum-sided dormers, antennae anchor wires, etc.) Please consult your roofing material wholesaler or dealer for information on these types of metal strips.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/_l/en_US/_s.155/117267/_s.155/115613
algae danger zones

NEXT!

halva

01-16-2005, 08:43 AM

Another Peak Oil dialogue:

Speaker 1: I find that many people, including many politicised people, are not responsive to the Peak Oil idea because of their memories (or knowledge) of the 1972 OPEC oil crisis, the talk so prevalent then of oil running out, and the subsequent realization that this talk was serving a hidden agenda, and in brief that it was bollocks.

Suggestions on what to say to those who respond in this way to the Peak Oil message?

Speaker 2: Simple: In 1972, the threatened oil shortage was political. There was no geological threat of a depletion of oil supplies.

In 2005, there is. Peak Oil is here! Less oil left to extract from now on...and MORE demand, both from developed AND developing nations, a demand that will GROW...and here we are, with LESS oil left to extract, not MORE!

Of course, they'll assure you that there is PLENTY of oil. True, the point where the energy used to extract it is more than the amount of energy the extracted oil will provide, is fast approaching. But we'll soon come up with new technologies that'll keep that from happening! Do NOT believe this; honest experts in oil extraction admit that technological breakthroughs are pretty much exhausted.

Also, post-Peak, the quality of the oil will rapidly decline (in fact, it already IS, in many places!). Not the light, sweet crude we've all known and loved, but heavy crude, and heavily sulphured crude, MUCH harder--and more polluting--to refine.

That's the condensed version of a reply, in layman's terms. Hope it helps!

Speaker 3: I recently came across some letters I wrote to my wife (then my girlfriend) back when the first oil crisis hit -- that was 1973 BTW, not 1972 --while she was studying abroad in Europe and I was stuck on the west bank of the Missouri River. The level of shock at seeing prices go up to 40 and then 45 and then almost 50 cents a gallon is amusing now, but at the time it was like systemic collapse. And then officials decreed de facto gasoline rationing by going to an odd-even sales system, depending on your license plate number. People were actually stealing license plates so they could buy gas any time they wanted.

People were making major changes in their lifestyles and driving habits. The Rocky Mountain ski industry took a major hit. One resort, desperate for business, promised skiers a supply of gasoline at the local station if they came up for a weekend. When the tanker didn't show up and the pumps ran dry, the stranded skiers rioted, causing thousands of dollars in damage.

But at no time was anyone intelligent talking about oil running out, or even peaking. The energy crises of 1973-74 and 1979-80 were both political, not geological. In 1973 the cause was the Arab-Israeli War, when OPEC cut shipments to punish the US for backing Israel and forcing the Soviet Union to back down on its promise to send tanks and troops to fight for the Arabs. In 1979 it was the fall of the shah of Iran. Yes, there was a lot of ignorant talk about oil running out, but only by those who didn't understand the forces at work.

I should add, OPEC not only instituted an oil embargo, but also forced prices to remain high even after it lifted the embargo. By 1973 most OPEC nations in the Middle East had nationalized their oil fields, and the taste of high prices the embargo gave them was intoxicating.

halva

01-16-2005, 09:06 AM

Wayne, she knows, I know, everybody knows. You haven't ignore-listed anything or anyone on this thread. Give it up, man. You are becoming a laughingstock.

You are the emperor with no clothes, HA!
Welcome to HELL ON EARTH FOR LIARS, Wayne!

Raynolds, every now and then when I go to an Internet cafe I have checked out some of what you and your dickhead followers have been saying.

I ignore-listed you later than the others. As far as I can remember it was one time when your ranting at Footsoldier became just too offensive for me too stomach.

I've told you that I am no longer discussing chemtrails at this thread, or elsewhere, with people like you. You can caricature and misrepresent this with me as you do with Footsoldier if it makes you happy. I am bored with the issue, and bored with you on the subject of chemtrails.

I have now reinstated you, but not the others, on my own computer, and I will leave you reinstated for as long as my stomach can take it on the understanding that you may have something to say on Peak Oil.

I don't mind so much giving you a hearing on Peak Oil since oil is a question you have been professionally involved with and to that extent your knowledge and motivations in relation to it may be somewhat professionally focused and not entirely political, as they are with 'chemtrails'.

This is provisional, of course. If I can't stomach you any more, or if I judge that I am not learning anything from you, as occurred with chemtrails, I will ignore-list you again.

If you are ignore-listed that does not mean that I never read anything you write. It simply means that I am ignoring you.

halva

01-16-2005, 10:06 AM

This was recently sent to me and I thought it was worth posting:

"There is no doubt in my mind that the tsunami was a 'vertical shock' with the intended 'horizontal tail' of being able to install the Indonesia piece of the global spy network of sensors and detectors - under the guise of being a weather and conditions monitoring system.

Last week on C-Span, NOAA presented the plan -

http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=NOAA&image1.x=21&image1.y=6

As they say, it is ready to install. Coincidence? Nuclear sub in the region of earthquake - coincidence? And they happen to run into an undersea mountain that wasn't mapped and they just didn't see it?

How often do tsunamis occur? The last tsunami to hit the U.S. was in 1964 - Crescent City. The U.S. knew the tsunami was rolling towards Indonesia but they didn't warn any of the countries over there. Think about the costs vs benefits of a global network of sensors and detectors for tsunamis when a phone call would work equally well. It doesn't compute.

There is also an 'educational' program running (a couple of times so far) - telling us how New York City could be covered with a wave if an earthquake happened to hit some place in Africa. Apparently there is some guy that works for NOAA that can predict fairly accurately where a tsunami will hit based on the location of an earthquake at a pressure point in a subduction zone.

The terminology 'vertical shock' and 'horizontal tail' comes from Thomas Barnett's book, The Pentagon's New Map. It is an intellectual's way of describing a terrorist event. The event causes 'rule set' changes - changes in law or policy. I'd bet that the NOAA had approached Indonesia to install the spy network and they said no. The tsunami was to convince them of the need. That is the New American Way of War in the transformed American military. From here on out, we need to watch the changes in law and policy (horizontal tails) for every vertical shock (9-11 and the tsunami).

By studying Art Cebrowski's and Thomas Barnett's description of the transformed military and net-centric warfare, you'll see the game plan. They are telling us exactly what they are doing - and why.

Here is the transcript of Barnett's presentation at ICAF. I transcribed it from the video that was posted on C-Span
http://www.fromtheedge.us/Psychological/Barnett%201.htm

Here is another version of it on C-Span - slightly different - with each presentation, there are new clues
http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=Thomas+Barnett&image1.x=23&image1.y=6
This presentation was followed by an 'audience' Q and A session. I know that the Q and A session was set up because I was trying like crazy to get through. I did get through 3 times but nobody was answering the phones. Here is one particularly important question regarding Barnett's work -

CALLER: Dr. Barnett, I have a question about the upcoming QDR which is an in depth look at U.S. strategy, forces and policies. Do you think the senior officials at the Pentagon got a copy of your book and probably will take some of these ideas and thoughts and incorporate it into how they how they are going to reshape the armed forces that will mess with our current administration new global realignment plan?

BARNETT: Yeah.. the QDR that the caller refers to is basically a congressionally mandated massive review of our strategy and force posture around the world called the Quadrennial Defense Review One was done in 1993, 1997, 2001 and we have one ongoing now that is going to in effect be vetted across the system and vetted to congress across the year 2005.

The essential question you are asking is one of influence. I get this question all the time with the book. My polite response is to say that’s in effect the wrong question. It is not a question of how influencial this book is, because decision makers don’t get to the position they’re in now simply to turn over grand strategy to some professor from Newport. They’ve spent their careers getting to this point of power and influence with specific ideas in mind. I think the question to be asked about the book is whether it is accurate or not. Does it seem to provide a guide to the decision making that you see exhibited time and time by this administration.

Cebrowski - presentation "Planning a Revolution" http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/wm292.cfm
Cebrowski - presentation "Seizing Opportunities" http://www.defenselink.mil/transformation/cebrowski_paper_20041216.html
Cebrowski - article Net-Centric - a different kind of war http://www.gcn.com/22_32/interview/24048-1.html

Cebrowski and Barnett - article http://www.usni.org/Proceedings/Articles03/procebrowski01.htm
From the article: " By our reckoning, the United States—and the world—stands at a historical creation point similar to the immediate post-World War II years." [In Barnett's presentation, Military in the 21st Century, he talks about stopping the massive invasion of illegal immigrants to our country as 'changing history'. As if history had already determined that our country should be flooded with illegals.

Now - reference Ron Suskind's article in which a member of the Bush Administration is quoted as saying:

“The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.'' ]

Here is another speech by a military officer. Make sure to go to the link and read the speech - the graphics are important.
http://www.jfcom.mil/newslink/storyarchive/2004/sp031704.htm

"So how can we better integrate industry and JFCOM? How can you parallel our process and participate with us on these initiatives? Brigadier General Jim Warner will brief our plan tomorrow afternoon. And as a reward for sticking around, we can all go golfing afterwards!" "Joint transformation" is something that is still not well understood within the military-both in the United States and in NATO.

To help tell the story on what we mean by "joint transformation," I've brought just three slides. I should make clear that when I use the term "joint operations," I mean the BIG "J" in joint-which refers to a seamless integration of joint forces, interagency and multinational and coalition partners. "

This is just one example of the "process" end of transformation. On the "product" side, you can see that we have focused our efforts on moving the force to a joint operational training environment-and from a force based on attrition warfare to one that is designed and trained to conduct effect-based operations.

You can see the "way ahead" must be aimed at developing and delivering new 4th Block capabilities. We're very pleased that you are here-and your continued participation and robust exchange of information is something that we will need to successfully move our collective organizations to the right."

Insurrectionchemistry

01-16-2005, 10:34 AM

Oh my my, It appears ole Jay Reynolds and his mob are about to have another unstable breakdown, as no one is paying them any real mind.

I tend to file them in about the same category as those Jewish Mossad agents that were having a high five party and congratulating each other as the WTC towers were hit and fell down.

Jay Reynolds and mob followers get zero respect here.

It appears the thread is turning into a spot for others to drop in and tell Reynolds what they really think of him.

Oh well, guess that says a lot.

IMHO,
is

jayreynolds

01-16-2005, 11:06 AM

Raynolds, every now and then when I go to an Internet cafe I have checked out some of what you and your dickhead followers have been saying.

I ignore-listed you later than the others. As far as I can remember it was one time when your ranting at Footsoldier became just too offensive for me too stomach.

I've told you that I am no longer discussing chemtrails at this thread, or elsewhere, with people like you. You can caricature and misrepresent this with me as you do with Footsoldier if it makes you happy. I am bored with the issue, and bored with you on the subject of chemtrails.

Wayne, when you come out of your self-centered box, you cannot help yourself, the world is populated almost exclusively with "people like[me]". You got a taste of it from Schnellenhuber, from Cornell, and from Gelbspan. The MOB surrounds you whenever you dare depart from your arrogant little ivory tower, not a damn thing you can do about it old buddy, except to whine or reenter thqt fantasy world you keep pretending exists where you can practice pseudo "activism"
preaching to Deborah. Where is that gonna get you?

I have now reinstated you, but not the others, on my own computer, and I will leave you reinstated for as long as my stomach can take it on the understanding that you may have something to say on Peak Oil. I don't mind so much giving you a hearing on Peak Oil since oil is a question you have been professionally involved with and to that extent your knowledge and motivations in relation to it may be somewhat professionally focused and not entirely political, as they are with 'chemtrails'. This is provisional, of course. If I can't stomach you any more, or if I judge that I am not learning anything from you, as occurred with chemtrails, I will ignore-list you again. If you are ignore-listed that does not mean that I never read anything you write. It simply means that I am ignoring you.

Wayne, give it up. Everybody knows.
You've never been able to ignore anyone or anything on this thread, ever. And you never will.
Just because you keep slipping up and responding doesn't mean you are a bad person. In fact, it's far worse to pretend to ignore, and even to lie about it, than it is to actually NOT ignore and face the world as it really is.

Obviously you can't really run away. I simply won't let you do so, and as always, you will remain under my exclusive control. You have no free will whatsoever to leave, not until I'm finished with you, anyways. So you might as well get over it and deal with the reality everyone else(and that incudes you) sees. The real world in which you get beat up every single day, for hundreds upon hundreds of pages, day after day, week after week, month after month.

As far as "Peak Oil" is concerned, you are getting into this stuff, as you did with the "chemtrails" hoax, a few years too late. Back in 1997-98 I used to debate this fellow Jay Hanson(no relation), and ran him into the ground in the same way I do you. He won't ever forget me. Here is his website, full of dire predictions, gloom and doom, all of the worst sort imaginable.
http://dieoff.org/

Jay's story is ultimately a sad tale of a man who became a misanthrope, he hates himself and everyone else, yet doesn't really see the ultimate hypocrisy in which his ideas place him. He eventually gave up in 2003 when it became clearer by the year that his "prophecies" weren't about to reach fulfillment as predicted.

A wise move.

Jay even toyed with the idea of "chemtrails", not out of fear for them, however. Jay Hanson, you see, hates the human race so much that he was actually in favor of the "death on a wholesale lot" theories that dominated the "chemtrails" hoax in 1999. When I began debunking the hoax he was quite disappointed that the "die-off" wasn't actually happening.

That said, Jay has now entered yet another little dream world in a messageboard fantasyland described pretty well by Caryl Johnston. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze495hz/id24.html

So, Wayne, as far as "Peak Oil", I've been there and done that. It's just another bunch of looney tunes making the most by quoting each other as if that made them any less a collection of nutters, misinterpreting genuine information, and totally ignoring information which contradicts their own 'expansive' delusions.

In short, a world where you would fit in well, Wayne, but a world in no less measure just as false as the glass house edifice housing your "chemtrails" cult.

Have a wonderful time in Hell, Wayne. This is your home now, get used to it.

jayreynolds

01-16-2005, 11:15 AM

Oh my my, It appears ole Jay Reynolds and his mob are about to have another unstable breakdown, as no one is paying them any real mind.
IMHO, is
Jimbo, to ignore being debunked is to risk a greater eventual fall. You had better retract your 'titanium on the rooftops hoax" now, before it get's a life of it's own and can't be stopped.
Deborah knows what I'm talkng about. She went through the whole thing with "A.C. Griffith", whose hoax continues to misinform, even as he runs away from the reality that it is being actively debunked by people like my buddy Chem11. Deborah now knows it was all BS, but is too ashamed to admit it.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-16-2005, 02:07 PM

Yawn.

halva

01-16-2005, 02:23 PM

So, Wayne, as far as "Peak Oil", I've been there and done that. It's just another bunch of looney tunes making the most by quoting each other as if that made them any less a collection of nutters, misinterpreting genuine information, and totally ignoring information which contradicts their own 'expansive' delusions.

How about some of this genuine information then. Make yourself useful. I'm conducting elsewhere conversations that are much more interesting than any conversation I ever have with you and you give me no usable material for them.

I'm giving you a rare chance to gain the satisfaction of eliciting responses from me and you turn it down. How boring it is going to be for you to be again ignore-listed along with your disciples.

You are quite right that however hellish you imagine you are making things here, this thread has become a stable element of my daily routine and would be missed as much as my morning coffee if I gave it up.

Do you think that this is bad for me? That it is, i.e. you are, wearing me down? Dream away.

So there it is Raynolds. Unless you say something useable soon about Peak Oil, it's back to ignore-listing for you, except for the times now and then at the Internet cafe in central Athens that I check you out, as -yes- I have been doing.

gaiacomm

01-16-2005, 02:23 PM

Yawn!

jayreynolds

01-16-2005, 02:47 PM

Yawn.

Yawn if you like, Jimbo. Your "titanium spray stained rooftops" hoax has been demolished.

Some more monolog to aid the discussion and recognition of Titanium methods being used in areas highly affected with air pollution.

Below are photos of rooftops near Oak Ridge (12 miles east) that are damaged by TiO2 having been used on the area to offset the huge air pollution from Oak Ridge and TVA. These tests of using TiO2 began in roughly 1994 as a result of extreme air temperatures and severe damaging storms hitting the area with many 100 year type storms occuring over the period of a few years.

When these tests began the air temp was around 100 F and the air was literally yellow with pollution and the asthma risks extreme and for some the air literally burned their skin. It was in these times the Ti methods began and some of the material that came off the roofs literally puddled up in large white clumps near gutter drains.
http://ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=220830&postcount=5149

Jimbo, give us the actual date that you claim this occurred.
Jimbo, as a "scientist", surely you took a sample, documented by a chain of custody which included an independent witness' affidavit, and have had such a sample analyzed by a certified lab.

Now, show us the proof of abnormal levels of titanium dioxide.

In the photos that follow one can see how the TiO2 tended to stick in clumps on the rooftops and smear down the asphalt shingles. These are all condos with no fireplaces and no trees to contribute to material landing on the rooftops.

and here even more dense patterns of the TiO2 sticking to the rooftops leading to these black stains. This area has never had these type problems of these black stains in the roof asphalt shingles until after these TiO2 airborne distribution methods were used on the area.

So, your claim is that titanium dioxide makes BLACK stains?
What color "chemtrails" does spraying with titanium dioxide make, and where are your photos of this happening in levels large enough to make "clumps" on rooftops?

Personally I see no proof that titanium dioxide, which is ordinarily WHITE is present at all, and no proof that the photos shown are even taken in Tennessee at all.

Jimbo, you really should do proper research before adding new hoaxes to your repertoire.
Looking at your second photo:
http://www.doewatch.com/Tistains1.jpg

I notice that the black stains are absent in the drip line below the appurtenances of the drain vent pipes. These flashings are galvanized metal. Galvanized metal is coated with zinc.
I also notice that you don't include any metal roofs in your photos, which, if sprayed with black material, should also show staining. Your failure to show such "controls" makes your gambit pretty obvious, Jimbo. You are hoaxing again, stooopid.

NOW, PREPARE YOURSELF TO BE DEBUNKED!

Jimbo, the roofs you show appear to be stained by an ordinary algae called Goeocapsa Magma.
The problem is well known and entirely preventable. The typical remedy is to 'poison' the rooftop environment by attaching a copper or ZINC strip along the ridge, which allows enough of either metal to leach out and stop growth of the algae.

But don't take my word for it, or Jimbo's either. Ask the experts:
http://www.askthebuilder.com/082_Black_Algae_Stains_On_Asphalt_Shingles.shtml

DEAR TIM: I've got a problem. 3 years ago I had a new fiberglass asphalt shingle roof installed. It was the same color as my old roof, a light tan. Within the past 6 months several areas of the roof have developed a dark, mildew-like stain. It is spreading. The climate hasn't changed and there are no trees that shade my roof. What in the devil is going on?

http://www.casma.ca/cas_tech13.shtml
For anyone with a new roof construction, it is possible to install a zinc metal or other galvanized type metal strip near the ridge of the roof. As the metal ions oxidize and erode off of the metal strip, they wash down the roof inhibiting cellular algae growth. (This is why the staining on algae discolored roofs is usually less or non-existent below metal roof attachments such as flashings, aluminum-sided dormers, antennae anchor wires, etc.) Please consult your roofing material wholesaler or dealer for information on these types of metal strips.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/_l/en_US/_s.155/117267/_s.155/115613
algae danger zones

NEXT!

foot_soldier

01-16-2005, 02:49 PM

Jay "Weight of the World on My Shoulders" Reynolds wrote:
.....But Deborah just doesn't seem to have grown up yet. She seems to still think and act like an ugly high school girl who is involved in a clique, and is so low in self-esteem she's afraid to speak out, even when she knows something is totally wrong.

This has gone on for so long, even though I've been bringing it out in the open for years, that I have considered more than once whether Deborah is incapable of distinguishing fact from fantasy. So often she makes private statements which seem to show she does, but then publicly she does exactly the opposite. It's perverse, unaccountable for, and perhaps a sign that she may not really be 'all there'.....
I think you had better watch what you're doing. You are definitely crossing the line from your usual merely obnoxious putz-level BS into the realm of frank libel.

You bet I'm checking in here on a regular basis. And saving your abusive posts for future reference. I don't know who in hell you think you are but one of these days you may be unpleasantly surprised to find that any one of the many people you've relentlessly dragged through the mud is going to finally just up and do something about your vicious and sanctimonious personal attacks.

You are scum, Reynolds.

People can rightly voice concerns about aviation emissions damage to the ozone layer, atmospheric CO2, NOx and perfluorocarbon concentrations, acidification of the oceans from escalating atmospheric CO2, the Bush administration's push in the absence of a real energy policy to just go ahead and burn more coal, the impact of aviation contrails on diurnal surface temperature range and so forth and you will just continue to post, ad infinitum, the same old ancient history from your pathetic little stash, deliberately quoting material out of context for the maximum destructive impact.

You despise me because I've been on to your games for years now.

Get over it.

Yours is a minority position in the scheme of things at this late date. People aren't going to listen to rabid fanatics like you for much longer.

Maybe you should write this guy and see if he can use your very special talents:

Climate Change Update
Senate Floor Statement by
U.S. Sen. James M. Inhofe(R-Okla)

January 4, 2005
http://inhofe.senate.gov/pressreleases/climateupdate.htm

As I said on the Senate floor on July 28, 2003, "much of the debate over global warming is predicated on fear, rather than science." I called the threat of catastrophic global warming the "greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people," a statement that, to put it mildly, was not viewed kindly by environmental extremists and their elitist organizations. I also pointed out, in a lengthy committee report, that those same environmental extremists exploit the issue for fundraising purposes, raking in millions of dollars, even using federal taxpayer dollars to finance their campaigns.

For these groups, the issue of catastrophic global warming is not just a favored fundraising tool. In truth, it's more fundamental than that. Put simply, man-induced global warming is an article of religious faith. Therefore contending that its central tenets are flawed is, to them, heresy of the most despicable kind. Furthermore, scientists who challenge its tenets are attacked, sometimes personally, for blindly ignoring the so-called "scientific consensus." But that's not all: because of their skeptical views, they are contemptuously dismissed for being "out of the mainstream." This is, it seems to me, highly ironic: aren't scientists supposed to be non-conforming and question consensus? Nevertheless, it's not hard to read between the lines: "skeptic" and "out of the mainstream" are thinly veiled code phrases, meaning anyone who doubts alarmist orthodoxy is, in short, a quack..... (continued)

It sounds like he would be a perfect match for you.

stuart_allsop

01-16-2005, 02:50 PM

Oh my my, It appears ole Jay Reynolds and his mob are about to have another unstable breakdown, as no one is paying them any real mind.WEll, that's easy to understand, because apart from "Jay Reynolds and his mob", nobody here actually has a "real mind".!!!! :)

stuart_allsop

01-16-2005, 02:53 PM

Jimbo, ... You had better retract your 'titanium on the rooftops hoax" now, before it get's a life of it's own and can't be stopped.Dammit Jay! Why'd you tell him that? I was busy working on a design for some copper rods, quartz crystals, and buckets of resin that I could sell to the kooks foir big bucks, to help them fight the Titanium Plague. Then I was planning to write a book about it, and start some radio talk shows, to see if I can make some REAL bucks! But now you went and spoiled it all... :)

ayalakarsh

01-16-2005, 03:29 PM

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=3][COLOR=Navy]

I am new to all of this. You two definitely have a lot more going here than chemicals.

I thought we had one war in Iraq????

The theory: The white lines of condensed water vapor that jets leave in the sky, called contrails, are actually a toxic substance the government deliberately sprays on an unsuspecting populace.

Now this I believe. Whatever the government can do to cause more illnesses so that the pharma cartel can sell more medications.

Ayala Karsh :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

gaiacomm

01-16-2005, 03:56 PM

whitemajikman

01-16-2005, 04:27 PM

I think you had better watch what you're doing. You are definitely crossing the line from your usual merely obnoxious putz-level BS into the realm of frank libel.

You bet I'm checking in here on a regular basis. And saving your abusive posts for future reference. I don't know who in hell you think you are but one of these days you may be unpleasantly surprised to find that any one of the many people you've relentlessly dragged through the mud is going to finally just up and do something about your vicious and sanctimonious personal attacks.

You are scum, Reynolds.

People can rightly voice concerns about aviation emissions damage to the ozone layer, atmospheric CO2, NOx and perfluorocarbon concentrations, acidification of the oceans from escalating atmospheric CO2, the Bush administration's push in the absence of a real energy policy to just go ahead and burn more coal, the impact of aviation contrails on diurnal surface temperature range and so forth and you will just continue to post, ad infinitum, the same old ancient history from your pathetic little stash, deliberately quoting material out of context for the maximum destructive impact.

You despise me because I've been on to your games for years now.

Get over it.

Yours is a minority position in the scheme of things at this late date. People aren't going to listen to rabid fanatics like you for much longer.

Maybe you should write this guy and see if he can use your very special talents:

Climate Change Update
Senate Floor Statement by
U.S. Sen. James M. Inhofe(R-Okla)

January 4, 2005
http://inhofe.senate.gov/pressreleases/climateupdate.htm

As I said on the Senate floor on July 28, 2003, "much of the debate over global warming is predicated on fear, rather than science." I called the threat of catastrophic global warming the "greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people," a statement that, to put it mildly, was not viewed kindly by environmental extremists and their elitist organizations. I also pointed out, in a lengthy committee report, that those same environmental extremists exploit the issue for fundraising purposes, raking in millions of dollars, even using federal taxpayer dollars to finance their campaigns.

For these groups, the issue of catastrophic global warming is not just a favored fundraising tool. In truth, it's more fundamental than that. Put simply, man-induced global warming is an article of religious faith. Therefore contending that its central tenets are flawed is, to them, heresy of the most despicable kind. Furthermore, scientists who challenge its tenets are attacked, sometimes personally, for blindly ignoring the so-called "scientific consensus." But that's not all: because of their skeptical views, they are contemptuously dismissed for being "out of the mainstream." This is, it seems to me, highly ironic: aren't scientists supposed to be non-conforming and question consensus? Nevertheless, it's not hard to read between the lines: "skeptic" and "out of the mainstream" are thinly veiled code phrases, meaning anyone who doubts alarmist orthodoxy is, in short, a quack..... (continued)

It sounds like he would be a perfect match for you.

Yours is a minority position in the scheme of things at this late date. People aren't going to listen to rabid fanatics like you for much longer.

The above quote from Deborah's post says it all.........

except for the fact that she and her other partners in crime, ARE THOSE RABID FANATICS ........

And May I remind you it is not a Minority Position in the Governments Eyes.........

Your Posting of that document only strengthens our Position .......and may I add the Senator does a wonderful job of pointing out exactly what you Represent...........RABID ,RADICAL ENVIRONMENTAL FANATICISM.......

Which is nothing less than Gross Fraudulence,Mixed in with delusional Belief systems......all in the name of your transparent Agenda.......

At this late Date.....Deborah..........

And in retrospect......

You and your cause are doomed to failure...........

And if you think not.......

Put your money where your Mouth is.........

WMM

whitemajikman

01-16-2005, 04:32 PM

whitemajikman

01-16-2005, 05:11 PM

It was Such a good article I am Reposting it in its entirety.....

Climate Change Update
Senate Floor Statement by
U.S. Sen. James M. Inhofe(R-Okla)

January 4, 2005

As I said on the Senate floor on July 28, 2003, "much of the debate over global warming is predicated on fear, rather than science." I called the threat of catastrophic global warming the "greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people," a statement that, to put it mildly, was not viewed kindly by environmental extremists and their elitist organizations. I also pointed out, in a lengthy committee report, that those same environmental extremists exploit the issue for fundraising purposes, raking in millions of dollars, even using federal taxpayer dollars to finance their campaigns.

For these groups, the issue of catastrophic global warming is not just a favored fundraising tool. In truth, it's more fundamental than that. Put simply, man-induced global warming is an article of religious faith. Therefore contending that its central tenets are flawed is, to them, heresy of the most despicable kind. Furthermore, scientists who challenge its tenets are attacked, sometimes personally, for blindly ignoring the so-called "scientific consensus." But that's not all: because of their skeptical views, they are contemptuously dismissed for being "out of the mainstream." This is, it seems to me, highly ironic: aren't scientists supposed to be non-conforming and question consensus? Nevertheless, it's not hard to read between the lines: "skeptic" and "out of the mainstream" are thinly veiled code phrases, meaning anyone who doubts alarmist orthodoxy is, in short, a quack.

I have insisted all along that the climate change debate should be based on fundamental principles of science, not religion. Ultimately, I hope, it will be decided by hard facts and data-and by serious scientists committed to the principles of sound science. Instead of censoring skeptical viewpoints, as my alarmist friends favor, these scientists must be heard, and I will do my part to make sure that they are heard.

Since my detailed climate change speech in 2003, the so-called "skeptics" continue to speak out. What they are saying, and what they are showing, is devastating to the alarmists. They have amassed additional scientific evidence convincingly refuting the alarmists' most cherished assumptions and beliefs. New evidence has emerged that further undermines their conclusions, most notably those of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change-one of the major pillars of authority cited by extremists and climate alarmists.

This evidence has come to light in very interesting times. Just last month, the 10th Conference of the Parties (COP-10) to the Framework Convention on Climate Change convened in Buenos Aires to discuss Kyoto's implementation and measures to pursue beyond Kyoto. As some of my colleagues know, Kyoto goes into effect on February 16th. I think, with the exception of Russia, an exception that I will explain later, the nations that ratified Kyoto and agreed to submit to its mandates are making a very serious mistake.

In addition, last month, popular author Dr. Michael Crichton, who has questioned the wisdom of those who trumpet a "scientific consensus," released a new book called "State of Fear," which is premised on the global warming debate. I'm happy to report that Dr. Crichton's new book reached #3 on the New York Times bestseller list.

I highly recommend the book to all of my colleagues. Dr. Crichton, a medical doctor and scientist, very cleverly weaves a compelling presentation of the scientific facts of climate change-with ample footnotes and documentation throughout-into a gripping plot. From what I can gather, Dr. Crichton's book is designed to bring some sanity to the global warming debate. In the "Author's Message" at the end of the book, he refreshingly states what scientists have suspected for years: "We are also in the midst of a natural warming trend that began about 1850, as we emerged from a 400 year cold spell known as the Little Ice Age." Dr. Crichton states that, "Nobody knows how much of the present warming trend might be a natural phenomenon," and, "Nobody knows how much of the present trend might be man-made." And for those who see impending disaster in the coming century, Dr. Crichton urges calm: "I suspect that people of 2100 will be much richer than we are, consume more energy, have a smaller global population, and enjoy more wilderness than we have today. I don't think we have to worry about them."

For those who do worry, or induce such worry in others, "State of Fear" has a very simple message: stop worrying and stop spreading fear. Throughout the book, "fictional" environmental organizations are more focused on raising money, principally by scaring potential contributors with bogus scientific claims and predictions of a global apocalypse, than with "saving the environment." Here we have, as the saying goes, art imitating life.

As my colleagues will remember from a floor speech I gave last year, this is part and parcel of what these organizations peddle to the general public. Their fear mongering knows no bounds. Just consider the debate over mercury emissions. President Bush proposed the first-ever cap to reduce mercury emissions from power plants by 70 percent. True to form, these groups said he was allowing more mercury into the air. Go figure.

BUENOS AIRES

As I mentioned earlier, several nations, including the United States, met in Buenos Aires in December for the 10th round of international climate change negotiations. I'm happy to report that the U.S. delegation held firm both in its categorical rejection of Kyoto and the questionable science behind it. Paula Dobriansky, under secretary of state for global affairs, and the leader of the U.S. delegation, put it well when she told the conference, ''Science tells us that we cannot say with any certainty what constitutes a dangerous level of warming, and therefore what level must be avoided."

Ms. Dobriansky and her team also rebuffed attempts by the European Union to drag the U.S. into discussions concerning post-Kyoto climate change commitments. With the ink barely dry on Kyoto ratification, not to mention what the science of climate change is telling us, Ms. Dobriansky was right in dubbing post-2012 talks "premature."

It was clear from discussions in Buenos Aires that Kyoto supporters desperately want the U.S. to impose on itself mandatory greenhouse emission controls. Moreover, there was considerable discussion, but no apparent resolution, over how to address emissions from developing countries, such as India and especially China, which over the coming decades will be the world's leading emitter of greenhouse gases. But developing nations, most notably China, remained adamant in Buenos Aires in opposing any mandatory greenhouse gas reductions, now or in the future. Securing this commitment, remember, was a necessary component for U.S. ratification of Kyoto, as reflected in the Byrd-Hagel resolution, which the Senate passed 95 to 0. Without that commitment, Kyoto, at least in the U.S., is dead.

Kyoto goes into force on February 16th. According to the EU Environment Ministry, most EU member states won't meet their Kyoto targets. They may do so only on paper due to Russia's ratification of the treaty. Russia, of course, ratified Kyoto not because its government believes in catastrophic global warming-it doesn't-but because ratification was Russia's key to joining the World Trade Organization. Also, under Kyoto, Russia can profit from selling emissions credits to the EU and continue business as usual, without undertaking economically harmful emissions reductions.

As talks in Buenos Aires revealed, if alarmists can't get what they want at the negotiating table, they will try other means. I was told by reliable sources that some delegation members of the European Union subtly hinted that America's rejection of Kyoto could be grounds for a challenge under the WTO. I surely hope this was just a hypothetical suggestion and not something our European friends are actively and seriously considering. Such a move, I predict, would be devastating to US-EU relations, not to mention the WTO itself.

But I suspect it's not just hypothetical. The lawsuit is the stock in trade of environmental activists, and we are witnessing a new crop of global warming lawsuits now being leveled at individual U.S. companies and the U.S. itself.

In Buenos Aires, Earth Justice, a San Francisco-based environmental group, and the Center for International Law, announced plans to seek a ruling from the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights that the U.S., because of its supposed contribution to global warming, is causing environmental degradation in the Arctic, and therefore violating the human rights of Alaska's Inuits, or Eskimos. As the New York Times wrote, "The commission, an investigative arm of the Organization of American States, has no enforcement powers. But a declaration that the United States has violated the Inuits' rights could create the foundation for an eventual lawsuit, either against the United States in an international court or against American companies in a U.S. court, said a number of legal experts, including some aligned with industry."

continued........

whitemajikman

01-16-2005, 05:12 PM

The Times didn't mention that such lawsuits already have been filed in the U.S. Eliot Spitzer, New York's state attorney general, along with 8 other state attorneys general, mainly from the Northeast, last year sued 5 coal-burning electric utilities in the Midwest. The reason? "Given that these are among the largest carbon dioxide polluters in the world," Mr. Spitzer wrote, "it is essential that the court direct them to reduce their emissions."

To me, this is a clear-cut sign of desperation by the alarmists, but I'm not surprised. President Bush has rejected Kyoto, the United States Senate rejected Kyoto 95 to 0, the United States Senate rejected the McCain-Lieberman bill 55 to 43, and there is little hope that Congress will pass mandatory greenhouse gas reductions, at least not in the near future. So resorting to the courts is their last, best hope.

I hope the courts have enough sense and moderation to reject these lawsuits out of hand. I am interested, for one, to see how Mr. Spitzer quantifies with scientific precision just how these particular companies have contributed to climate change. How is it, one might ask, that emissions, specifically from American Electric Power, are causing rising sea levels, droughts, and hurricanes?

NEW SCIENCE

Such efforts fly in the face of compelling new scientific evidence that makes a mockery of these lawsuits. By now, most everyone familiar with the climate change debate knows about the hockey stick graph, constructed by Dr. Michael Mann and colleagues, which shows that temperature in the Northern Hemisphere remained relatively stable over 900 years, then spiked upward in the 20th Century. The hockey-stick graph was featured prominently in the IPCC's Third Assessment Report, published in 2001. The conclusion inferred from the hockey stick is that industrialization, which spawned widespread use of fossil fuels, is causing the planet to warm. I spent considerable time examining this work in my 2003 speech. Because Mann effectively erased the well-known phenomena of the Medieval Warming Period-when, by the way, it was warmer than it is today-and the Little Ice Age, I didn't find it very credible. I find it even less credible now.

But don't take my word for it. Just ask Dr. Hans von Storch, a noted German climate researcher, who, along with colleagues, published a devastating finding in the Sept. 30, 2004 issue of the journal Science. As the authors wrote: "We were able to show in a publication in Science that this [hockey stick] graph contains assumptions that are not permissible. Methodologically it is wrong: Rubbish."

Dr. von Storch and colleagues discovered that the Mann hockey stick had severely underestimated past climate variability. In a commentary on Dr. von Storch's paper, T. J. Osborn and K. R. Briffa, prominent paleo-climatologists from the University of East Anglia, stressed the importance of the findings. As they wrote, "The message of the study by von Storch et al. is that existing reconstructions of the NH [northern hemisphere] temperature of recent centuries may systematically underestimate the true centennial variability of climate" and, "If the true natural variability of NH [northern hemisphere] temperature is indeed greater than is currently accepted, the extent to which recent warming can be viewed as 'unusual' would need to be reassessed." In other words, in obliterating the Medieval Warming Period and the Little Ice Age, Mann's hockey stick just doesn't pass muster.

Dr. von Storch is one of many critics of Michael Mann's hockey stick. To recount just one example, three geophysicists from the University of Utah, in the April 7, 2004 edition of Geophysical Research Letters, concluded that Mann's methods used to create his temperature reconstruction were deeply flawed. In fact, their judgment is harsher than that. As they wrote, Mann's results are "based on using end points in computing changes in an oscillating series" and are " just bad science." I repeat: "just bad science."

ARCTIC CLIMATE ASSESSMENT

These findings come alongside a spate of new reports that, at least in the eyes of the media, supposedly confirm the "consensus" on global warming. "The Arctic Climate Impact Assessment," released last fall, perfectly fits that mold. "Arctic Perils Seen in Warming," blared a headline in the New York Times. As the Times wrote, "The findings support the broad but politically controversial scientific consensus that global warming is caused mainly by rising atmospheric concentrations of heat-trapping greenhouse gases, and that the Arctic is the first region to feel its effects."

What do we really know about temperatures in the Arctic? Let's take a closer look. As Oregon State University climatologist George Taylor has shown, Arctic temperatures are actually slightly cooler today than they were in the 1930s. [Chart #1] As Dr. Taylor has explained, it's all relative-in other words, it depends on the specific time period chosen in making temperature comparisons. "The [Arctic Climate Impact Assessment]," Dr. Taylor wrote, "appears to be guilty of selective use of data. Many of the trends described in the document begin in the 1960s or 1970s-cool decades in much of the world-and end in the warmer 1990s or early 2000s. So, for example, temperatures have warmed in the last 40 years, and the implication, 'if present trends continue,' is that massive warming will occur in the next century."

Dr. Taylor concluded: "Yet data are readily available for the 1930s and early 1940s, when temperatures were comparable to (and probably higher than) those observed today. Why not start the trend there? Because there is no net warming over the last 65 years?"This is pretty convincing stuff. But, one might say, this is only one scientist, while nearly 300 scientists from several countries, including the United States, signed onto the Arctic report. Mr. President, I want to submit for the record a list of scientists, compiled by the Center for Science and Public Policy, from several countries, including the United States, whose published work shows current Arctic temperature is no higher than temperatures in the 1930s and 1940s. For example, according to a group of 7 scientists in a 2003 issue of the Journal of Climate: "In contrast to the global and hemispheric temperature, the maritime Arctic temperature was higher in the late 1930s through the early 1940s than in the 1990s." Or how about this excerpt from the 2000 International Journal of Climatology, by Dr. Rajmund Przybylak, of Nicholas Copernicus University, in Torun, Poland: "The highest temperatures since the beginning of instrumental observation occurred clearly in the 1930s and can be attributed to changes in atmospheric circulation."

Continued......

whitemajikman

01-16-2005, 05:12 PM

THE TSUNAMI AND GLOBAL WARMING

Despite this evidence, alarmism is alive and well. [Chart #2] As you can see behind me, the Washington Post today ran an editorial cartoon that actually blames the Sumatra tsunami on global warming. Are we to believe now that global warming is causing earthquakes? The tsunami, of course, was caused by an earthquake off Sumatra's coast, deep beneath the sea floor, completely disconnected from whatever the climate was doing at the surface. Regrettably, the tsunami-warming connection is yet another facet of the "State of Fear" alarmists have concocted. As Terence Corcoran of Canada's Financial Post wrote, "The urge to capitalize on the horror in Asia is just too great for some to resist if it might help their cause…Green Web sites are already filling up with references to tsunami risks associated with global warming."

To address this, let's ask some simple questions: Is global warming causing more extreme weather events of greater intensity, and is it causing sea levels to rise? The answer to both is an emphatic 'no'. [Chart #3] Just look at this chart behind me. It's titled "Climate Related Disasters in Asia: 1900 to 1990s." What does it show? It shows the number of such disasters in Asia, and the deaths attributed to them, declining fairly sharply over the last 30 years.

Or let's take hurricanes. Alarmists linked last year's hurricanes that devastated parts of Florida to global warming. Nonsense. Credible meteorologists quickly dismissed such claims. Hugh Willoughby, senior scientist at the International Hurricane Research Center of Florida International University stated plainly: "This isn't a global-warming sort of thing.... It's a natural cycle." A team led by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) Dr. Christopher Landsea concluded that the relationship of global temperatures to the number of intense land-falling hurricanes is either non-existent or very weak. In this chart [chart #4], you can see that the overall number of hurricanes and the number of the strongest hurricanes fluctuated greatly during the last century, with a great number in the 1940s. In fact, through the last decade, the intensity of these storms has declined somewhat.

What about sea level rise? Alarmists have claimed for years that sea level, because of anthropogenic warming, is rising, with ominous consequences. Based on modeling, the IPCC estimates that sea level will rise 1.8 millimeters annually, or about one-fourteenth of an inch.

[Chart #5] But in a study published this year in Global and Planetary Change, Dr. Nils-Axel Morner of Sweden found that sea level rise hysteria is overblown. In his study, which relied not only on observational records, but also on satellites, he concluded: "There is a total absence of any recent 'acceleration in sea level rise' as often claimed by IPCC and related groups." Yet we still hear of a future world overwhelmed by floods due to global warming. Such claims are completely out of touch with science. As Sweden's Morner puts it, "there is no fear of massive future flooding as claimed in most global warming scenarios."

CONCLUSION

What I have outlined today won't appear in the New York Times. Instead you'll read much about "consensus" and Kyoto and hand wringing by its editorial writers that unrestricted carbon dioxide emissions from the United States are harming the planet. You'll read nothing, of course, about how Kyoto-like policies harm Americans, especially the poor and minorities, causing higher energy prices, reduced economic growth, and fewer jobs. After all, that is the real purpose behind Kyoto, as Margot Wallstrom, the EU's environment minister, said in a revealing moment of candor. To her, Kyoto is about "leveling the playing field" for businesses worldwide-in other words, we can't compete, so let's use a feel-good treaty, based on shoddy science, fear, and alarmism, and which will have no perceptible impact on the environment (Chart #6), to restrict America's economic growth and prosperity. Unfortunately for Ms. Wallstrom and Kyoto's staunchest advocates, America was wise to the scheme, and it has rejected Kyoto and similar policies convincingly. Whatever Kyoto is about-to some, such as French President Jacques Chirac, it's about forming "an authentic global governance"-it's the wrong policy and it won't work, as many participants in Buenos Aires grudgingly conceded.

Despite the bias, omissions, and distortions by the media and extremist groups, the real story about global warming is being told, and, judging by the welcome success of Michael Crichton's "State of Fear," it's now being told to the American public.

WMM

Insurrectionchemistry

01-16-2005, 06:11 PM

http://rense.com/general61/freem.htm

Freemasonry: Mankind's Death Wish
By Henry Makow PhD
1-16-5

"Architects of Deception, a 600-page history of Freemasonry by Estonian writer Jyri Lina offers profound insight into the true character of modern history.

Essentially, a dominant segment of society has joined the Jewish financial elite by embracing Freemasonry, a satanic philosophy that represents a death wish for Western civilization. They imagine they will profit from the carnage and suffering caused by their "New World Order."

Incredible, bizarre and depressing as it sounds, Lina writes that 300 mainly Jewish banking families have used Freemasonry as an instrument to subvert, control and degrade the Western world."

con't........

jayreynolds

01-16-2005, 07:10 PM

I think you had better watch what you're doing. You are definitely crossing the line from your usual merely obnoxious putz-level BS into the realm of frank libel. You bet I'm checking in here on a regular basis. And saving your abusive posts for future reference. I don't know who in hell you think you are but one of these days you may be unpleasantly surprised to find that any one of the many people you've relentlessly dragged through the mud is going to finally just up and do something about your vicious and sanctimonious personal attacks.[b]You are scum, Reynolds.]

Well, I know when I've lit a match under your ass, you whining little witch.

Come, now, bring it on, I've been waiting for your people to up and do something for years now.

Of course, if you decide to act out against ME, what you are doing is admitting you have no intention of acting against that which you claim to REALLY BE AGAINST!

Deborah, what's got your claws out is the fact that I showed, by your own words, that YOU KNOW the whole Tellerian "deep shield" aluminum being sprayed hoax is false.

YOU KNOW that such a scheme must be done in the stratosphere.
YOU KNOW that the planes you see are in the troposhere.
YOU KNOW that what Wayne is pushing is NOT TRUE.
YOU KNOW that what Jimbo is saying reveals him to be a nutcase.
YOU KNOW that what you see aren't "chemtrails" at all.
YOU KNOW that they are just contrails.

Now, considering all these things that YOU KNOW, what sort of fantasy land do you really live in, to stay here alongside liars like Wayne, and wacko's like Jim Phelps, and then say:

"You are leaving out a crucial component of the total picture here and that is the absolutely necessary emergence of a critical mass of public will to face and begin to deal with reality where this issue is concerned. There is a great deal of reliable information out there but it is useful only in proportion to the general public’s willingness to at least consider it."

Deborah, you simply can't have it both ways. You can't live two contradictory lives and maintain sanity. This sort of cosmic conundrum is what drives you back here for your lesson again and again. It's why, despite Wayne's orders, you keep coming back for more. And the more you deny it the more the cognitive dissonance grows. You really can't blame me for it, when it's all inside YOUR head.

Sooner or later you are going to have to deal with the reality that you can't expect a "critical mass" to believe you are telling the truth when you associate with people like Wayne Hall, who you have stated promotes the "deep shield" hoax, and you won't find people considering you sane when you ally yourself with nutcases like Jim Phelps.

Cast off these millstones around your neck, Deborah. Look around you, look in the mirror and see exactly who and what is holding you down. You won't find me among them. I've always been one of your best friends, even if I have some tough things to say it's all been for your benefit.

Get reality back in your life Deborah, and maybe once you learn a little about what reality really is, just maybe, then you might have a tiny little itsy-bitsy chance to see "the general public's willingness to at least consider" that you have anything at all worthwhile to offer.

Until you do, you are spinning in an ever-smaller circle here at arianna's, and squandering both momentum and credibility with each moment you waste.

jayreynolds

01-16-2005, 07:21 PM

http://rense.com/general61/freem.htm
Freemasonry: Mankind's Death Wish
By Henry Makow PhD
1-16-5
Architects of Deception, a 600-page history of Freemasonry by Estonian writer Jyri Lina offers profound insight into the true character of modern history.
Essentially, a dominant segment of society has joined the Jewish financial elite by embracing Freemasonry, a satanic philosophy that represents a death wish for Western civilization. They imagine they will profit from the carnage and suffering caused by their "New World Order."
Incredible, bizarre and depressing as it sounds, Lina writes that 300 mainly Jewish banking families have used Freemasonry as an instrument to subvert, control and degrade the Western world. con't........

So, Jimbo, you mean to say all the world's problems are caused by those Jews. That's what it really comes down to, in the "World According to Jim Phelps".

This is who you have chosen sides with, Deborah, a racist nutcase.

Deborah, Ross Gelbspan came here and saw it all. He saw Jim Phelps calling him a filthy Jew.
He saw Wayne Hall promoting the "chemtrails" hoax and misusing his name.

He saw your name here alongside Jim Phelps and Wayne Hall.

Is this what you want? This is what you have sowed, so shall you reap.

Check out this link, Deborah:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22ross+gelbspan%22+%22Deborah+Stark%22&btnG=Google+Search

halva

01-16-2005, 09:51 PM

Yawn!

Can you explain your yawn of posting 5191Gaiacomm?

halva

01-16-2005, 09:57 PM

Raynolds I'm giving you one last chance to say something pertinent in response to posting 5183.

After all you have, or have had, a profession, haven't you, as well as political opinions.

I agree with Footsoldier that there would be a hell of a lot of people out there who have it in for you, but whether there is any point making a comment like this here at Arianna's is a different story. I don't have any hopes of litigation through established channels.

This is an example of the working at cross purposes that I mentioned.

I would have preferred Footsoldier to play the role of a resource person, which she does very well, leaving it to me to fight you. If she had done that I would not have ignore-listed you in the first place.

Even Jim Phelps with his anti-semitic ravings, and the unreliable Gaiacomm, are easier for me to co-ordinate with strategically here than Footsoldier.

However, Arianna's forum is after all only a very minor front in our battleground. So it goes.

halva

01-17-2005, 03:38 AM

The problem of sidelining Raynolds is the same as the problem of sidelining the media (i.e. journalists) and politicians, which like him are middlemen inserting themselves for the purposes of malicious distortion between producers and recipients of information.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 03:49 AM

jayreynolds

01-17-2005, 04:08 AM

Raynolds I'm giving you one last chance to say something pertinent in response to posting 5183.
Wayne, at this point in my life I'm over a decade past working for an oil company. I really no different from Deborah or you. I buy gas and electricity produced by fossil fuels like both of you.
I'm simply not concerned about whether, or not, you want to play chicken little about another issue. I showed you the parable of Jay hanson and where it's gotten him, whih is nowhere.
That's the only message or advice I have for you.

Even Jim Phelps with his anti-semitic ravings, and the unreliable Gaiacomm, are easier for me to co-ordinate with strategically here than Footsoldier.

According to Ross Gelbspan, you are in league with Jimbo and his racist ravings, not merely "coordinating". He was thoroughly disgusted with the racism he found here.

The problem of sidelining Raynolds is the same as the problem of sidelining the media (i.e. journalists) and politicians, which like him are middlemen inserting themselves for the purposes of malicious distortion between producers and recipients of information.

Wayne, according to Ross Gelbspan, you maliciously distorted his email to make it appear as if he supported "chemtrails", when in fact he had refused to sign your anti-"chemtrails" petition.

According to Ross Gelbspan, the moment he read what was going on here, he wanted out, and you were forced to remove the false statement you had posted. There will be no second chance for you, Wayne. You've shot your wad on the ground this time and spoiled the field of "climate activists" for Deborah.

BTW, is it true that you are being sought by the US Department of Justice?
http://www.usdoj.gov/marshals/district/al-s/fugitives/hall.pdf

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 04:47 AM

Halva writes:

"I would have preferred Footsoldier to play the role of a resource person, which she does very well, leaving it to me to fight you. If she had done that I would not have ignore-listed you in the first place.

Even Jim Phelps with his anti-semitic ravings, and the unreliable Gaiacomm, are easier for me to co-ordinate with strategically here than Footsoldier."

==========
Hi Halva,

Perhaps you don't always get things your way. F_S is an individual with her own opinions and goals, which just might be a little different than your own.

In many ways F_S can cut through all the nonsense and get to the heart of the matter with science and research studies, which does leave you wanting of this abilities. Halva, you have a real shortcoming in not being able to understand simple sciences many times.

This just might make F_S the more capable leadership person, since F_S does understand the science and does make highly relevant citations and quotes.

And Just like F_S is an individual and you tend to make some rather bigoted remarks that F_S needs to follow you, I too am an individual and tend to think for myself.

So, it looks like it is coming time to deal with your extreme shortsightedness in regard to religion that seem to follow in the same veins as your lack of abilities to handle simple science.

IMHO,
is

jayreynolds

01-17-2005, 04:59 AM

I do believe we just saw Reynolds attack a Jew for speaking out against Masons and other Jews of the banking monopoly, didn't we. Not a single word of that was mine. Do you hate Jews Reynolds and help the banking monoply and Masons? Or just attack everyone who differs from your agenda making them victims of your hate and harassment?Looks like Reynolds did not do his homework, but then he never does. Sicko Reynolds even debunked himself on the titanium induced roof stains problem, and is the laughing stock of all of America. I think the mythical Toto is after him and pulled his panties down around his ankles.IMHO,is

Jimbo, you must really be in fantasy land. You have been raving against Jewish people on this forum for weeks. I debunked your titanium stains on rooftops hoax. Any roofer knows this is due to algae. The pictures you posted show this clearly. Here is a link:
http://ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=221592&postcount=5192

Oh, what the heck, since you like it so much, I'll just debunk you again.

I think it's hilarious you can't even put up any defense at all. You are OWNED, Jimbo!

Where are your samples of these purported "clumps" of titanium dioxide that you promised to show us, Jimbo?

Some more monolog to aid the discussion and recognition of Titanium methods being used in areas highly affected with air pollution.

Below are photos of rooftops near Oak Ridge (12 miles east) that are damaged by TiO2 having been used on the area to offset the huge air pollution from Oak Ridge and TVA. These tests of using TiO2 began in roughly 1994 as a result of extreme air temperatures and severe damaging storms hitting the area with many 100 year type storms occuring over the period of a few years.

When these tests began the air temp was around 100 F and the air was literally yellow with pollution and the asthma risks extreme and for some the air literally burned their skin. It was in these times the Ti methods began and some of the material that came off the roofs literally puddled up in large white clumps near gutter drains.
http://ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=220830&postcount=5149

Jimbo, give us the actual date that you claim this occurred.
Jimbo, as a "scientist", surely you took a sample, documented by a chain of custody which included an independent witness' affidavit, and have had such a sample analyzed by a certified lab.

Now, show us the proof of abnormal levels of titanium dioxide.

In the photos that follow one can see how the TiO2 tended to stick in clumps on the rooftops and smear down the asphalt shingles. These are all condos with no fireplaces and no trees to contribute to material landing on the rooftops.

and here even more dense patterns of the TiO2 sticking to the rooftops leading to these black stains. This area has never had these type problems of these black stains in the roof asphalt shingles until after these TiO2 airborne distribution methods were used on the area.

So, your claim is that titanium dioxide makes BLACK stains?
What color "chemtrails" does spraying with titanium dioxide make, and where are your photos of this happening in levels large enough to make "clumps" on rooftops?

Personally I see no proof that titanium dioxide, which is ordinarily WHITE is present at all, and no proof that the photos shown are even taken in Tennessee at all.

Jimbo, you really should do proper research before adding new hoaxes to your repertoire.
Looking at your second photo:
http://www.doewatch.com/Tistains1.jpg

I notice that the black stains are absent in the drip line below the appurtenances of the drain vent pipes. These flashings are galvanized metal. Galvanized metal is coated with zinc.
I also notice that you don't include any metal roofs in your photos, which, if sprayed with black material, should also show staining. Your failure to show such "controls" makes your gambit pretty obvious, Jimbo. You are hoaxing again, stooopid.

NOW, PREPARE YOURSELF TO BE DEBUNKED!

Jimbo, the roofs you show appear to be stained by an ordinary algae called Goeocapsa Magma.
The problem is well known and entirely preventable. The typical remedy is to 'poison' the rooftop environment by attaching a copper or ZINC strip along the ridge, which allows enough of either metal to leach out and stop growth of the algae.

But don't take my word for it, or Jimbo's either. Ask the experts:
http://www.askthebuilder.com/082_Black_Algae_Stains_On_Asphalt_Shingles.shtml

DEAR TIM: I've got a problem. 3 years ago I had a new fiberglass asphalt shingle roof installed. It was the same color as my old roof, a light tan. Within the past 6 months several areas of the roof have developed a dark, mildew-like stain. It is spreading. The climate hasn't changed and there are no trees that shade my roof. What in the devil is going on?

http://www.casma.ca/cas_tech13.shtml
For anyone with a new roof construction, it is possible to install a zinc metal or other galvanized type metal strip near the ridge of the roof. As the metal ions oxidize and erode off of the metal strip, they wash down the roof inhibiting cellular algae growth. (This is why the staining on algae discolored roofs is usually less or non-existent below metal roof attachments such as flashings, aluminum-sided dormers, antennae anchor wires, etc.) Please consult your roofing material wholesaler or dealer for information on these types of metal strips.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/_l/en_US/_s.155/117267/_s.155/115613
algae danger zones

NEXT!

jayreynolds

01-17-2005, 05:09 AM

Hi Halva,Perhaps you don't always get things your way. F_S is an individual with her own opinions and goals, which just might be a little different than your own.
n many ways F_S can cut through all the nonsense and get to the heart of the matter with science and research studies, which does leave you wanting of this abilities. Halva, you have a real shortcoming in not being able to understand simple sciences many times.
This just might make F_S the more capable leadership person, since F_S does understand the science and does make highly relevant citations and quotes.
And Just like F_S is an individual and you tend to make some rather bigoted remarks that F_S needs to follow you, I too am an individual and tend to think for myself.
So, it looks like it is coming time to deal with your extreme shortsightedness in regard to religion that seem to follow in the same veins as your lack of abilities to handle simple science.

Jimbo, shut up and do what Wayne has ordered you to do. You forget the pecking order around here. Besides, Deborah has already stated your aluminum being sprayed in the troposphere doesn't make any sense. She doesn't believe in it at all.
[size=5]Don't expect Deborah to be your leader. she is your DEBUNKER![/quote]
Here is Deborah debunking you, Jimbo:

Dr. Cornell’s point here is that ‘laying jet contrails’ (in the upper troposphere) as a methodology to achieve a net planetary cooling effect simply will not work as it has now been conclusively determined that aviation contrails and resulting persistent contrail cirrus actually exert a net WARMING effect on the atmosphere.

Note that she is not referencing the loading of the STRATOSPHERE with particulate emissions, which is an ENTIRELY different matter. One thing I can say here, and I think it's important to keep this in mind, is that what we are seeing is taking place in the upper troposphere - NOT in the stratosphere where the by now familiar-to-us-all Tellerian aerosol climate mitigation proposals are specifically designed to be deployed.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 05:43 AM

Ah Yes, Reynolds making quotes out of context again and then misleading everyone. And he debunks himself yet again---what an idiot.

IMHO,
is

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 05:57 AM

Halva,

A large part of this run on discussion on Arianna Forum is directly due to your inabilities in science. You have admitted you are not good at science and can't seem to keep up. The other part is you seem to relish tossing diatribes back and forth with idiots, all of which seems to be sustained by your lack of getting to the relevant points or understanding simple science.

It is required that a person be able to process the significant points in scientific papers on global warming or even aerosols to be effective in presenting the argument. So, it would appear that you cannot do this process and are essentially ineffective at presentation skills.

Part of the process of my tossing out little bits of information on chemtrails, aka aerosols or air pharmacology, is to look at how you and others process and assimilate the data. Reynolds and company remarks are as expected. However, the alleged leadership of the enviironmental concerns and halva have been found lacking.

Which means the real reason for this run on commentary and your loosing the easy to win debate on chemtrails likely resides with you. In place of going to internet cafes and sipping, you should be going down to the library and reading up a little now and then.

After all, if someone shows you the science in the new refinery processes that reduce the sulfur in jet fuels [zeolite processes] and the new aluminum catalist processes that conserve hydrogen in the jet fuels process [complete with ORNL studies showing the research] and you don't connect that with the new JP-8 fuel-------then the thing that is wrong has the finger pointing at Halva. Halva can't even process that more hydrogen in JP-8 means more water created when it burns. Just what are you drinking down at the internet cafe?

Then when we get into the same levels of vapid processing skills as applied to religion factors connected to global warming and health forcasts we see not only lack of processing skills, but some self aggrandizing bigotry stemming from Halva that seems to rival Reynolds.

Halva you are going to have to make a commitment to understand the science behind global warming and which studies are more relevant or become a ball and chain to the process. The studies on global warming that heed the issues of the pollutants sequestered around the poles are more relevant than those that don't. Lots of these studies omit important parameters and models that fall well short of what is needed.

Just like if you leave out the photo properties of titanium dioxide under sunlight, you omit the nitrogen capture properties that address the NOX components of Jet fuels and other hydrocarbon burning pollution from the nitrogen in the air. F_S can recognize these factors, but you apparently cannot.

Either learn and pick up the science or stay home or just go drinking at the local Cafe, for you will likely be more effective doing nothing at all.

IMHO,
is

halva

01-17-2005, 06:05 AM

In many ways F_S can cut through all the nonsense and get to the heart of the matter with science and research studies, which does leave you wanting of this abilities. Halva, you have a real shortcoming in not being able to understand simple sciences many times.

This just might make F_S the more capable leadership person, since F_S does understand the science and does make highly relevant citations and quotes.

Jim, in order to have a leadership role, a person has to claim that role. A person who does not claim the role of leader does not end up leading.

Footsoldier has already achieved a fantastic amount through doing what she does well.

I would truly love it if she became our leader by making certain necessary moves off this thread that will not be visible here.

It is apparently her passion for settling accounts here prematurely with Raynolds that prevents her from doing this.

halva

01-17-2005, 06:28 AM

Footsoldier clearly came to this thread in order to suggest, indirectly, and through hints, that a strategy based on the climate change problem and not (overtly) on chemtrails, was the way ahead. I was won over to this idea.

After winning me over there was no reason for her to remain here. After all, I had started the argument here and I was the only one morally obliged to stay.

As it turned out the thread continued as a climate change notice board, and it could have gone on being one indefinitely if there had been a co-ordinated decision to ignore-list the debunkers and avoid getting dragged into argument with them.

But Footsoldier yielded to temptation and started arguing. And you, of course, came here to argue.

A thread like this is not a suitable environment for education, unless, as I said, there is an agreed-upon ignore-listing policy among all non-debunkers.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 06:45 AM

Halva writes:

"But Footsoldier yielded to temptation and started arguing. And you, of course, came here to argue.

A thread like this is not a suitable environment for education, unless, as I said, there is an agreed-upon ignore-listing policy among all non-debunkers."

=============

Halva,

Leadership is something earned by the mutual respect of those around you and derived generally from always speaking the truth and being fair. Leadership, if claimed, is not leadership--------perhaps a dictatorship term applies. Leadership is earned from the respect of others.

So, I disagree with your claims. Put simply, either you have to measure up or not be considered as a leader. Which means that you are going to have to learn some science and stop the play time down at the Cafe and spend from time in the library than playing ego tripping games with Reynolds.

I think, if you were correct in your observations, that I came her to drop some hints and see how you and others would respond, process, and use the science. Obviously, my observations are that you are incapable of processing these hints, plus you too lazy to go learn in the library or from F_S, who often supplies the citations of importance.

Obviously, a thread like this could be used for education for those with ability and interest to learn. Which leads me to a conclusion that your not capable of learning.

Nor are you capable of rendering the correct defintion for leadership.

I certainly don't intend to follow anyone that can't learn or appropiately apply science and deliver the simple truths in discussions.

Your leadership here is actully following F_S lead, which does include some science. However, your defalt leadership on Ariannas seems to be only due you being the lesser evil comparted to Reynolds and his mob.

Which means that you need to get off your behind and go learn and stop playing all day.

IMHO,
is

halva

01-17-2005, 06:55 AM

I'm not asking you to follow me. All I'm asking is that you help in whatever way you can to counterbalance the destructive influence of the debunkers here.

halva

01-17-2005, 06:59 AM

It seems that in 1994, the Defense Department merged satellite operations with NOAA - UNDER THE CONTROL OF NOAA which is under the Department of Commerce.

http://www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov/grounders/npoess.html

Recent changes in world political events and declining agency budgets prompted a re-examination of combining the two systems. In 1992, a National Space Council study recommended convergence of the two separate weather satellite systems. Following further recommendations contained in the National Performance Review and influenced by increased Congressional interest, NOAA, DoD and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration initiated studies in 1993 to determine how to converge the two systems. The completed study revealed that a converged system could reduce agency duplication and bureaucracy, substantially reduce costs, and satisfy both civil and military requirements for operational, space-based, remotely sensed environmental data. This tri-agency study formed the basis for the development of the Implementation Plan for a Converged Polar-orbiting Environmental Satellite System that was issued in conjunction with the 1994 Presidential Decision Directive.

On October 3, 1994, NOAA, DoD, and NASA created an Integrated Program Office to develop, manage, acquire, and operate NPOESS. The IPO is located organizationally within NOAA and is headed by a System Program Director who is responsible to the NPOESS Executive Committee. This Committee, which includes senior representatives from the three agencies, serves as a board of directors to ensure that the overall program plans meet the needs of the three participating agencies. Interagency efforts with NPOESS will result in the continuation of and improvements to the critical satellite measurements necessary to provide timely and accurate forecasts and warnings to the public and to conduct worldwide military operations.

The Integrated Program Office concept provides each of the participating agencies with lead responsibility for one of three primary functional areas. NOAA has overall responsibility for the converged system and is also responsible for satellite operations. NOAA is also the primary interface with the international and civil user communities. DoD is responsible for supporting the IPO for major systems acquisitions, including launch support. NASA has a primary responsibility for facilitating the development and incorporation of new cost-effective technologies into the converged system. Although each agency provides certain key personnel in their lead role, tri-agency work teams staff each functional division to maintain the integrated approach.

http://www.ballaerospace.com/npoess.html

jayreynolds

01-17-2005, 07:21 AM

As it turned out the thread continued as a climate change notice board, and it could have gone on being one indefinitely if there had been a co-ordinated decision to ignore-list the debunkers and avoid getting dragged into argument with them. But Footsoldier yielded to temptation and started arguing. And you, of course, came here to argue. A thread like this is not a suitable environment for education, unless, as I said, there is an agreed-upon ignore-listing policy among all non-debunkers.
Wayne, you simply can't argue that Deborah "yielded to temptation" when you do exactly the same thing. nobody, and that includes you, Jimbo, and Deborah, I repeat [NOBODY has ever ignore-listed anyone on this thread!

You all come here to get your daily dose of venom from me, and you will all continue coming until I say you can leave. NONE OF YOU have the capacity to ignore any of this or to leave until I say it is over.

That is that!

Now, as for Wayne and Jimbo, you want to play the Stalin and boss everyone around, but as my buddy Jimbo says, you can't even get your story straight. my co-debunker buddies Deborah and Chem11 have flat debunked everything you two have claimed regarding "geoengineering".

The problem is, Wayne was too damn ignorant to understand these facts, even though HE HIMSELF posted her statements at chemtrailcentral:

Deborah KNOWS that what you are seeing ARE JUST CONTRAILS in the troposphere, and that what you see are NOT geoengineering "chemtrails", WHICH WOULD BE IN THE STRATOSPHERE!-

"One thing I can say here, and I think it's important to keep this in mind, is that what we are seeing is taking place in the upper troposphere - NOT in the stratosphere where the by now familiar-to-us-all Tellerian aerosol climate mitigation proposals are specifically designed to be deployed.

Chem11 KNOWS that what you are seeing aren't aluminum or barium, he knows they are NOT geoengineering, HE KNOWS THEY ARE JUST CONTRAILS!-

"It all boils down to this, and I've made the point before (and at much greater length), but Barium releases would not create the siganture ultra-persistant fulminating super contrails that we call 'chemtrails' for short (and certainly not the white-out conditions and long-lasting artificial cloud cover that originates from the supertrails.

gaiacomm

01-17-2005, 07:27 AM

JR, did you and Karen have a good New Year? Tell Karen hello from all of us! Can Karen come outside and play with us?

jayreynolds

01-17-2005, 07:30 AM

Ah Yes, Reynolds making quotes out of context again and then misleading everyone. And he debunks himself yet again---what an idiot.IMHO,
is

Oh, so you say I quote out of context, eh? well, Jimbo, the whole context is there, Deborah said what she said, Wayne has posted her debunking you both on three websites already. SHE KNOWS that what is being seen IS NOT geoengineering, but just CONTRAILS. As for your sophistry, since you like seing it so much, here is your "Titanium stained roofs" hoax DEBUNKED AGAIN:

I think it's hilarious you can't even put up any defense at all. You are OWNED, Jimbo!

Where are your samples of these purported "clumps" of titanium dioxide that you promised to show us, Jimbo?

Some more monolog to aid the discussion and recognition of Titanium methods being used in areas highly affected with air pollution.

Below are photos of rooftops near Oak Ridge (12 miles east) that are damaged by TiO2 having been used on the area to offset the huge air pollution from Oak Ridge and TVA. These tests of using TiO2 began in roughly 1994 as a result of extreme air temperatures and severe damaging storms hitting the area with many 100 year type storms occuring over the period of a few years.

When these tests began the air temp was around 100 F and the air was literally yellow with pollution and the asthma risks extreme and for some the air literally burned their skin. It was in these times the Ti methods began and some of the material that came off the roofs literally puddled up in large white clumps near gutter drains.
http://ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=220830&postcount=5149

Jimbo, give us the actual date that you claim this occurred.
Jimbo, as a "scientist", surely you took a sample, documented by a chain of custody which included an independent witness' affidavit, and have had such a sample analyzed by a certified lab.

Now, show us the proof of abnormal levels of titanium dioxide.

In the photos that follow one can see how the TiO2 tended to stick in clumps on the rooftops and smear down the asphalt shingles. These are all condos with no fireplaces and no trees to contribute to material landing on the rooftops.

and here even more dense patterns of the TiO2 sticking to the rooftops leading to these black stains. This area has never had these type problems of these black stains in the roof asphalt shingles until after these TiO2 airborne distribution methods were used on the area.

So, your claim is that titanium dioxide makes BLACK stains?
What color "chemtrails" does spraying with titanium dioxide make, and where are your photos of this happening in levels large enough to make "clumps" on rooftops?

Personally I see no proof that titanium dioxide, which is ordinarily WHITE is present at all, and no proof that the photos shown are even taken in Tennessee at all.

Jimbo, you really should do proper research before adding new hoaxes to your repertoire.
Looking at your second photo:
http://www.doewatch.com/Tistains1.jpg

I notice that the black stains are absent in the drip line below the appurtenances of the drain vent pipes. These flashings are galvanized metal. Galvanized metal is coated with zinc.
I also notice that you don't include any metal roofs in your photos, which, if sprayed with black material, should also show staining. Your failure to show such "controls" makes your gambit pretty obvious, Jimbo. You are hoaxing again, stooopid.

NOW, PREPARE YOURSELF TO BE DEBUNKED!

Jimbo, the roofs you show appear to be stained by an ordinary algae called Goeocapsa Magma.
The problem is well known and entirely preventable. The typical remedy is to 'poison' the rooftop environment by attaching a copper or ZINC strip along the ridge, which allows enough of either metal to leach out and stop growth of the algae.

But don't take my word for it, or Jimbo's either. Ask the experts:
http://www.askthebuilder.com/082_Black_Algae_Stains_On_Asphalt_Shingles.shtml

DEAR TIM: I've got a problem. 3 years ago I had a new fiberglass asphalt shingle roof installed. It was the same color as my old roof, a light tan. Within the past 6 months several areas of the roof have developed a dark, mildew-like stain. It is spreading. The climate hasn't changed and there are no trees that shade my roof. What in the devil is going on?

http://www.casma.ca/cas_tech13.shtml
For anyone with a new roof construction, it is possible to install a zinc metal or other galvanized type metal strip near the ridge of the roof. As the metal ions oxidize and erode off of the metal strip, they wash down the roof inhibiting cellular algae growth. (This is why the staining on algae discolored roofs is usually less or non-existent below metal roof attachments such as flashings, aluminum-sided dormers, antennae anchor wires, etc.) Please consult your roofing material wholesaler or dealer for information on these types of metal strips.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/_l/en_US/_s.155/117267/_s.155/115613
algae danger zones

NEXT!

gaiacomm

01-17-2005, 07:42 AM

JR, did you and Karen have a good New Year? Tell Karen hello from all of us! Can Karen come outside and play with us?

JR, can someone post a picture of Karen, your wife so we can all see!

gaiacomm

01-17-2005, 07:44 AM

Jr has 477 pages to go of this ping pong contest!

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 07:54 AM

Halva writes:

"I'm not asking you to follow me. All I'm asking is that you help in whatever way you can to counterbalance the destructive influence of the debunkers here."

=========

Halva,

Lets get the basics down. If anything, you are following F_S's lead or leadership. Plus, you are not elected leader here as best I can tell. So, loose that concept.

Now, I think I have well shown that I came here with the full purpose of helping to counterbalance the destructive influence of the debunk mob. I came here to introduce the data and to see you all make some use of it. Instead all I can find is you can quote this paper and that one and toss out some diatribes toward the debunk mob, when your not pretending to not notice them. Get real. Use the damn data once in a while, work with it and understand it, and then act intelligent.

Halva, your more destructive toward dealing with these issues that Reynolds himself. Why? Simply because you seem to absolutely refuse to spend the time to learn simple things.

At this point, you should well note that climate change and chemtrails are all interconnected. Back at ORNL, when we saw the global warming factors forming at the pole from the ionization effects increasing the concentration of pollutants there, we knew there was a huge problem.

So, the mediation method was one of global factors using the fact that the atmosphere was going to be getting wetter, and then adding factors to Jet planes and fuels to make them set up cloud seeding to reflect IR back into space. The jet fuels were altered to reduce the sulfur and the SOx problem and also altered to increase the hydrogen content. This caused some problems with the burn, so they added the benzene compound----which is carcinogenic. This is why we see areas like in Fallon, NV suddenly showing up with kids getting leukemia. This is the JP-8 factors.

We also came up with the TiO2 methods as these took on the NOx and SOx problems, even your leadership person F_S showed you this data on this very Forum. Now, I must ask, where were you when your leader showed you the scoop? Out to lunch at the Cafe, or thinking of the lastest insult to apply towards Reynolds.

Halva, you despirately need to learn and pay attention and look at the big picture. You are not being anything close to a leader, more like a mindless follower with no recent instructions appears to be the best you can muster.

Halva, once you know about the TiO2 methods being in use and that fact they alter the pollution levels due to fossil fuels and the similar uses of low S jet fuels with enhanced H to make clouds, then all global warming studies that neglect these factors are in error. The increased rains pull down more of the HCl, H2SO4, and HF that are factors in global warming, and the oceans CO-2 sink abilities. You should know these factors affect most all the global warming studies and this has to be accounted for in correct studies.

You also need to do the very same when speaking of religion and your opinions on Jewish factors. Or your resistance to include the Revelations Factors in the Global Warming debate and the power of the evangelicals in the US, who need to be awakened to the truth of the problems here. Go learn the history and stop speaking out of ignorance. Part of the hell problem here comes directly from your mindless approach to things.

This little idea of yours quoted above goes both ways, not just one.

IMHO,
is

jayreynolds

01-17-2005, 08:25 AM

Ok, i see that Jim Phelps has done some "imagineering". Last night he edited both postings of his "titanium on rooftops" hoax and added new wording. The proof of his editing and reediting can be seen at the bottom of the page, which reads:
Last edited by Insurrectionchemistry : 17 Hours Ago at 10:37 PM.

At chemtrailcentral, he edited in the same way last night. He was a little trickier there, however.
Jimbo has hidden his edit tags at CTC by placing them in black font visible only by highlighting the lower part of his posting with the mouse, at which time the truth is revealed:

Last edited by Jim Phelps on Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:26 pm; edited 3 times in total
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79026#79026

These are some of the words that he added:

"It is these type stains on rooftops that are the tell-tale signs that TiO2 is being used to offset air pollution in areas. The TiO2 on asphalt shingles is a good indicator because the TiO2 captures nitrogen and UV from the sun makes lots of nitrogen emissions that act like a fertilizer (like amonia nitrate fertilizer) for molds and things to grow.
Metal roofs and painted metal roofs don't make good indicators because the zinc metal of galvanize and the metal inhibitors in paint tend to kill the molds so they don't show up the problem. One can even see how the mold growing on the rooftops due to the nitogen support from the TiO2 is inhibited by the galvanize zinc metal roof vent metals leaching down the side of the roof.
It is for this effect of titanium promoting all kinds of roof damage that newer ways using toxic metals with the titanium are being tried.
Most persons that have used TiO2 based oil paints outside well know that when one uses this type paint outside that the mold inhibitors MUST be added to the paint or in a few months the nice white paint job will turn grey mess from all the nitrogen capure effects fertilizing mold growth. In the old days, the paint contained lead that acted as the mold growth inhibitor, but problems with lead affecting kids ended that use. The very same process happens when TiO2 dustings from the sky land on asphalt rooftops and begin these black looking mold growths. It is a good first order indicator of areas having TiO2 applied."

See, Jimbo first said the stuff would "stick in clumps on the rooftops and smear down the asphalt shingles", and that "the material that came off the roofs literally puddled up in large
white clumps near gutter drains.

Jimbo never said anything about mold before, and he never said anything about galvanized metal, either, not in the original version two days ago........

BUT JIMBO CAN"T GET AWAY FROM HIS STUPIDITY EVEN BY TRYING TO CHANGE HISTORY

See, the problem with the roofs isn't MOLD at all! All roofers know this!

What is seen on the rooftops IS ALGAE, NOT MOLD, you stoopid FOOL!

The growth of ALGAE, a PLANT, NOT A FUNGI gets all of the nitrogen it needs through TRANSPIRATION DIRECTLY FROM THE ATMOSPHERE, like all plants do, not from some conspiracy "because the TiO2 captures nitrogen and UV from the sun makes lots of nitrogen emissions that act like a fertilizer".

So, Jimbo, all your furious editing last night only made things worse! You people can't even get your hoaxes straight on the second or even third editing????
No wonder you are at each other's throats and flailing about helplessly!

Now everyone can see you are changing your story as you go along, but as lairs always do, their story gets mixed up, they make mistakes, they get caught.

And the rest is history...........................

jayreynolds

01-17-2005, 08:52 AM

At this point, you should well note that climate change and chemtrails are all interconnected. Back at ORNL, when we saw the global warming factors forming at the pole from the ionization effects increasing the concentration of pollutants there, we knew there was a huge problem.

So, the mediation method was one of global factors using the fact that the atmosphere was going to be getting wetter, and then adding factors to Jet planes and fuels to make them set up cloud seeding to reflect IR back into space. The jet fuels were altered to reduce the sulfur and the SOx problem and also altered to increase the hydrogen content. This caused some problems with the burn, so they added the bromine compound----which is carcinogenic. This is why we see areas like in Fallon, NV suddenly showing up with kids getting leukemia. This is the JP-8 factors.

Ok, once again, Jimbo, you are the one who claims to be a whistleblower-time to toot your flute-

You are saying that "we" are responsible for inventing "chemtrails", and for "altering jet fuels" while working at ORNL. The word "we" means that you include yourself in the group.

At whose direction did you do these things, did you commit this criminal activity willingly, or did the mythical "Jews who control ORNL" force you do do so? If your claim is you were "only following orders", WHO GAVE THE ORDER???

You are saying "The jet fuels were altered to reduce the sulfur and the SOx problem and also altered to increase the hydrogen content."

If sulfur levels were reduced in jet fuel, then you are in direct contradiction with Deborah, Chem11, and even yourself, because you have all previously complained about high levels of sulfur in jet fuel!

There has been aboslutely NO increase in the hydrogen content of JP-8 fuel, which is 13.8%.

You say, "This caused some problems with the burn, so they added the bromine compound----which is carcinogenic."

Jimbo, WHO added WHAT carcinogenic bromine compound to jet fuel? Show us proof of such a compound being there, then tell us WHO is responsible for this criminal act.

Folks, Jimbo is so obviously off his rocker, he appears to have no grasp of reality whatsoever.
He is at the same time, calling himself a whistleblower, and yet blowing nothing more than smoke.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 09:27 AM

Ah Yes, Reynolds caught lying again. JP-8 is a high hydrogen jet fuel compared to previous jet fuels that were not derived by the new zeolite and aluminum catalytic methods of refinery hydrogen conservation methods.

The US military has only in recent years converted to JP-8.

JP-8 is like 20 percent more hydrogen than previous jet fuels not produced in hydrogen conservation process refineries.

IMHO,
is

halva

01-17-2005, 09:53 AM

stuart_allsop

01-17-2005, 10:11 AM

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=3][COLOR=Navy]

I am new to all of this. The theory: The white lines of condensed water vapor that jets leave in the sky, called contrails, are actually a toxic substance the government deliberately sprays on an unsuspecting populace.

Now this I believe.

Clearly, you ARE new to all this! Nice try.

"The white lines of condensed water vapor that jets leave in the sky, called contrails," Contrails are not condensed water vapor. They are FROZEN water vapor. Big difference. Low level clouds are made up of tiny water droplets. High level clouds are made up of minute ice crystals, simply becuase the temperature up there is way, way below zero.

"are actually a toxic substance the government deliberately sprays on an unsuspecting populace."Really? And how do you know this? And why does it happen all around the world, not just in the USA? It even happens on Mars, you know, and there IS no populace there....

Oh, just one question: How do you tell the difference between a "chemtrail" and a "contrail"?

ayalakarsh

01-17-2005, 10:30 AM

I don't know the difference. But I do know what our government has exposed us to in foods, medicine, the FDA who is bought by the pharma cartel, including the President who wanted to screan the whole country for "mental illnesses" so the pharmaceuticals who bought him can sell more drugs.

And the other important subject is that pretty soon you will need a prescription for an apple. Now what do you know about that? What do you know about what Codex is trying to do to the world?
In case you didn't know Codex is the committee made up of all countries who are all in agreement with them, because they have been blackmailed by trade sanctions. The Chairman of Codex and his buddy Basil are the final decision makers and they want you to have a prescription for vitiamins. Now I say that's very important and may just be a telling point on what else your government and mine are doing to make sure the pharma sells us lots of drugs.
You have also heard of the viouxx recall, or are you in Mars?

gaiacomm

01-17-2005, 10:34 AM

Interesting...

ayalakarsh

01-17-2005, 10:47 AM

INTERESTING THAT YOU FIND IT INTERESTING

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 10:52 AM

Halva writes:

"Right Jim. You have my vote for leader."
====
I don't want to be leader, as I am one to believe in Round Table methods. But with Round Table ideals that point to persons not doing their duties well.

"But bear in mind that you are not expressing my viewpoint in anything you say in relation to Jews or to scriptures."
=======
I can't speak for you, but I can tell you that your most serious of weakness that do harm to all the world lie here.

"I hope you have fun arguing with Raynolds."
=========

If your observations were accurate, you would note that I never speak to mass murderer types, but I do point out their attempts toward misinformation on occasion.

The listing of the details on Ti and chemtrails continues.

And little observations that you let Reynolds get you into a tight box, because you simply cannot talk intelligently on global warming and omit the chemtrail related issues. Besides your poor studies on religion factors, this is your next worse lapse in logic.

IMHO,
is

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 10:55 AM

I must agree with the new persons insights on the pharma business attempts to tie up vitamins. I think their largest attempts are toward cover up of the beneficial trace metals and colloidal metals effects on human and animal health.

IMHO,
is

stuart_allsop

01-17-2005, 11:02 AM

WOW! Great article, Shawn! So even congressmen are starting to see through the PC crap, and find the truth about the man-made "global warming" myth. Excellent!

stuart_allsop

01-17-2005, 11:15 AM

I don't know the difference. Hang on a sec.... You DON'T KNOW HTE DIFFERENCE, yet you say that you DO know that some of those trails up there are chemtrails? How does that work? You don't know the difference, but you also do know the difference? Huh? So just how on earth do you KNOW which is which, if you cannot tell the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail?

or are you in Mars?Chile, actually. Why do you ask?

ayalakarsh

01-17-2005, 11:22 AM

Did I claim to know the difference? If you read my post you would have seen that I was quoting USA Today, and I said I agreed with their point of view.

stuart_allsop

01-17-2005, 11:57 AM

Did I claim to know the difference? If you read my post you would have seen that I was quoting USA Today, and I said I agreed with their point of view.I dead read your post, and I did not see any reference to USA today. Maybe you posted something else on a different thread?

halva

01-17-2005, 12:14 PM

And little observations that you let Reynolds get you into a tight box, because you simply cannot talk intelligently on global warming and omit the chemtrail related issues.

This is what I keep saying to scientists, Jim, because it is their job to talk intelligently on global warming, not mine.

jayreynolds

01-17-2005, 03:33 PM

Ok, once again, Jimbo, you are the one who claims to be a whistleblower-time to toot your flute-

You are saying that "we" are responsible for inventing "chemtrails", and for "altering jet fuels" while working at ORNL. The word "we" means that you include yourself in the group.

At whose direction did you do these things, did you commit this criminal activity willingly, or did the mythical "Jews who control ORNL" force you do do so? If your claim is you were "only following orders", WHO GAVE THE ORDER???

You are saying "The jet fuels were altered to reduce the sulfur and the SOx problem and also altered to increase the hydrogen content."

If sulfur levels were reduced in jet fuel, then you are in direct contradiction with Deborah, Chem11, and even yourself, because you have all previously complained about high levels of sulfur in jet fuel!

There has been aboslutely NO increase in the hydrogen content of JP-8 fuel, which is 13.8%.

You say, "This caused some problems with the burn, so they added the bromine compound----which is carcinogenic."

Jimbo, WHO added WHAT carcinogenic bromine compound to jet fuel? Show us proof of such a compound being there, then tell us WHO is responsible for this criminal act.

Folks, Jimbo is so obviously off his rocker, he appears to have no grasp of reality whatsoever.
He is at the same time, calling himself a whistleblower, and yet blowing nothing more than smoke.

Come on, Jimbo, if you were a real whistleblower you'd have those names right on the tip of your tongue.
What use is a whistleblower that won't name names, Jimbo?

The truth is, you fabricated the whole thing, Jimbo. You never did anything related to jet fuel at Oak Ridge Laboratory. You simply made it all up and now when your bluff is called, you can't document any of it at all because it's all a LIE!

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 05:27 PM

Yaak

01-17-2005, 07:05 PM

INTERESTING THAT YOU FIND IT INTERESTING

Interesting indeed! Even more interesting is the fact that you find it interesting that gaiacomm finds it interesting. Do you find it interesting, also, or do you simply find interesting the fact that gaiacomm finds it interesting? I'm interested in knowing whether or not you find it interesting that gaiacomm responds "interesting" to many posts at Arianna's.:D

halva

01-17-2005, 09:00 PM

Halva writes:

"This is what I keep saying to scientists, Jim, because it is their job to talk intelligently on global warming, not mine."

=======

Halva,

If you are going to talk global warming or whatever---it is your direct responsibility to understand the issues so you can relate them accurately.

Jim, on the basis of the issues as I have so far understood them, I came to this conclusion:

"It seems that aerosol operations (including what we call ‘chemtrails’) have been effective in mitigating some of the symptoms of climate change. Anthropogenic climate change sceptics have taken advantage of this ‘success’ of their opponents to reinforce their own assertion that anthropogenic climate change is not occurring!! If the aerosol operations were conducted with full transparency and full cognizance of the public, trickery of this kind would be impossible because the relations between cause and effect would be obvious. But as things are, the lies are mutually self-reinforcing. The deceit that no deliberate spraying of aerosols is in progress strengthens the deceit that anthropogenic climate change is a myth. How many climate scientists worry about the fact that by concealing mitigation activities they strengthen the hand of 'greenhouse sceptics', i.e. climate change debunkers."

The conclusion was based on the following Congressional testimony:

"Tom Wigley (senior scientist at the National Centre for Atmospheric Research, responding to Congressional testimony from greenhouse sceptic Dr. Patrick Michaels):

“The latest projections available at the time of Michaels's testimony (Kattenberg et al, 1996) are for a global-mean warming over 1990-2100 of around two degrees Celsius, with an extreme range of 0.8 degrees C-4.5 degrees C. While it is true that these results are slightly smaller than the projections given by the IPCC in 1990, the important thing to note is that they are not directly comparable with these earlier results. This is because the 1990 results were based on different emissions scenarios, scenarios that differ markedly from the 1992 emissions scenarios. The 1992 emissions scenarios, furthermore, now include sulphur dioxide emissions, which lead to the production of sulphate aerosols with, in most cases, an attendant cooling effect (albeit relatively small).”

“Another misconception that Michaels propagates is the idea that some radical change has been made in the performance of the Hadley Centre model between 1990 and now. This, too, is wrong. The model has been changed, but not in any way that is relevant to the debate. The most important change that has occurred has been not to the model but to how the model is forced (viz., now including aerosol effects).”

“It is true that calculations published in the 1990 IPCC report gave larger warming amounts than the latest values, but there are no qualitative differences. The differences do not arise from any change in models or in our understanding of the climate sensitivity. Rather they arise from the use of different forcing scenarios for the future. The earlier projections were based on different emissions scenarios. They are not directly comparable with the latest results because of this and because aerosol effects were
ignored.”

Similarly from Jerry Mahlman, director of NOAA's Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory at Princeton University and chair of NASA's Mission to Planet Earth Scientific Advisory Committee:

Question: “What are the reasons that the IPCC projections of global warming appear to have come down somewhat?”

Jerry Mahlman: “The sulphate offset of greenhouse-gas-induced warming is the reason for the lowered IPCC warming projections. Michaels and a few others seem to think that a cooling effect somehow lowers the sensitivity of the climate to increased greenhouse gases. I cannot find any logic in such assertions.”

Both of these quotes are from our "Climate Change Jekylls and Hydes".
http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/jekyll-hyde.pdf

That article is a collective effort based on private e-mail correspondence and discussion at the closed Ama Lahi forum, away from distraction by debunkers. We left this forum to go there, and the result so far is the article.

You would have been invited to join the discussion also if it weren't for your habit of getting diverted by unrelated subjects when discussing science.

As I have said here on a number of occasions, the global warming/climate change debate is being carried out between well-paid experts on both sides. I am not getting paid anything, and I see no reason why I should invest energy involving myself in a debate which is already going on anyway, and in which others are getting paid to participate and I am not.

The point that I have wanted to make from the beginning here is the point that you just made: that the global warming debate cannot be conducted intelligently if the geoengineering factor is left out of the equation. To omit geoengineering from the discussion is to give anthropogenic climate change sceptics a free gift..

It is a distraction from the point to get involved in argument over whether or not anthropogenic climate change is a reality. The discussion is with people who acknowledge that it is. What one tells them is that they would be making their case against anthropogenic climate change sceptics more effectively if they utilised all available information on geoengineering proposals and practices.

The fact that we can't kick the debunkers off this thread means that what is going on here is not proper discussion, in which I also could learn something from people who know more about science than I do. It is just a 'hold the fort' operation.

We are holding the fort less effectively than we would if we were in agreement on the strategy we should be using to do so.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 09:19 PM

"Yaak"= intellectual equilavalent of athletes foot fungus.

I'll buy ya a pint of gasoline so you can go on vacation all year and slime some feet somewhere.

Which means you come up way short of human, and Halva is a good bit slow to learn person, but human.

We have a simple cure for athletes foot in Tennessee, and you might like it.

IMHO,
is

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 09:47 PM

Halva writes:

"You would have been invited to join the discussion also if it weren't for your habit of getting diverted by unrelated subjects when discussing science."

=======

This is the kind of sniping I am not pleased with you about. I likely would not come to visit such a discussion unless those present were capable of thinking of the whole picture. If they are of your weakened mindset on whole picture discussions, then I would likely not speak well toward them.

Halva, You seem to be totally at a loss of looking at the history and money trail of how things happen in the US. You are from Australia and presently Greece and you work on issues that are dominated by the US, but seem to have this need to separate how the US works and thinks from why things occur. That must be hard to justify logically.

Just like one cannot separate Teller from the Manhattan Project, one cannot separate Teller from being Jewish and this coloring the entire project and the US national security goals.

The Jewish factor is a huge issue in the US and it does get well into the issues of both global warming and chemtrails, even into the deaths of Abe Lincoln, John Kennedy, and Martin Luther King. Just because you are so shallow of thought as to not be capable of clearly connecting these factors, does not mean you should be allowed to continue to make off color comments aggrandizing these shortcomings of yours.

The history of the Jews strongly affected Europe and the Money system that became the US Federal Reserve and it is this effect that sets up the shadow Govt problems of the US. It is this system that ORNL employs to help cover up global warming in the news and to help cover up even the well visible factors of chemtrails.

That you understand the US system so poorly does not speak well of your logical processing abilties.

I find it absolutely appauling that you, who claim to be informed on these factors, is totally vapid on the factors driving the politics, the money, and control on global warming and chemtrails here in the US.

Let me say this very clearly Halva, It is your fear of saying this Jewish linked issues that keeps your ineffectualized and keeps you in a nice tight fitting box. You are simply afraid to speak of the real history of these issues because you are afraid someone might claim what you said is anti-semetic.

Get real Halva, all this holocaust stuff played up and the anti-semetic label being bandied about by the Jews is just about keeping the public from taking note of just how self promoting, how self aggrandizing, and how totally nationalistic the Jews have become.

The Jews are off attempting to play up anti-zionism as not the same as anti-semitism, but they are as closely akin as a samon and the egg it spawns. The Jewish religion is about the promotion of the Jewish people and their eternal fear that someone will note that is what their entire religion is all about. The Jewish religion, its Rabbis, and the Jews themselves don't have a clue about God. The only Jew that did have a clue they killed for greed and power.

The only safe defintion of God was the one Jesus proposed and that one was about God being the natural order. It is also the one Moses first proposed, but which was White Washed by the time the Oral Law was written down.

Martin Luther knew all about the Jewish problems of Europe and he made the problems very clear to everyone. Martin-Luther King was named after this very same Martin Luther and you can well bet that MLK know all about the Jewish problems. And Just like this lust for power by the Jewish bankers killed Lincoln, killed JFK, and it also killed MLK.

Now, if for some odd reason, you can't seem to follow what is obvious to many in the US and you tend to fall in lockstep with these failings to note the power and control structure of the US, then you shall be noted as to why you are failing to win.

If your going to continue this snipping and not be on firm ground with being able to defend it, then expect your logic and failings to become a very visible part of the ongoing discussions for some time.

You need to learn the history of the Jews in Europe, and even in the US---and stop looking to me like an ill informed buffon whose greatest aspiration is sitting in an internet cafe and thinking up place holding remarks for debunkers. Get off your little self aggrandized rear and attempt to read and learn----especially before you decide to shoot your mouth off with snippets that get your into difficulties continually.

It appears you don't even understand the significance of the MLK holiday in the US, and this is real disrespectful and bad.

IMHO,
is

Insurrectionchemistry

01-17-2005, 09:58 PM

gaiacomm

01-17-2005, 11:11 PM

The Jews of Israel will be given one last chance to leave and or give the lands back or be destroyed, completely!

gaiacomm

01-17-2005, 11:30 PM

It seems that JimPhelps has signed up on this forum as of 1/17/05. This should be very interesting to watch....

halva

01-18-2005, 01:48 AM

Halva,

During your next little internet Cafe session tomorrow, while your crafting the next mudball for Reynolds and Company, do take note that you have gained my attention on your little snipe remarks on my speaking frankly on the Jewish issues in the US and their history. And how this is all linked to the hold up on gettting the global warming issues and chemtrails exposed in the US, while it is more present in the news of Europe----something there should begin to click for you.

Then consider what is the next move for you logically:

1. You will have everyone blocked and be speaking to only your self on the Forum,

2. You can speak only to Reynolds all the time.

3. Or You can come to face simple realities and stop the ignorant GD snipping.

IMHO,
is

Jim, I am in the Internet cafe at the moment and in a hurry to get to work, so I can't do your last postings justice.

But I will say this: if I am going to talk about Jews I prefer to talk about them with Germans, who are Europeans, rather than with American anti-Semites, who are not.

I myself am not afraid of saying anything about Jews that I think is true. And I am prepared to listen to people who say the Holocaust was a lot of bullshit, because sometimes in their overstatement of their case they bring to light inaccuracies in conventional wisdom on the subject. I don't believe in demonizing anybody who is speaking sincerely, though I may sometimes be bored by people who are sincerely deluded.

I am not going to dialogue with you about Jews on this thread, just as I am not going to dialogue with Raynolds on the subject of chemtrails.

That said, I value everything you are posting here on subjects related to your expertise in the natural sciences, and I will try to be a good student for you.

Insurrectionchemistry

01-18-2005, 05:18 AM

Gaia writes:

"It seems that JimPhelps has signed up on this forum as of 1/17/05. This should be very interesting to watch...."

=========

Sounds like the identity theft Mason-Jew person from Canada is up to his same fradulent methods. Reynolds and his Mob steal ID's and impersinate people.

Recall it is the same bunch of crooks attempting to cover up the problems with JP-8's catalytic methods by misquoting on Benzene. JP-8's catalytic methods conserve hydrogen in the refinery process and contribute to more C-H bonds and more benzene toxic problems.

They seem not to like getting to the heart of the matter, be it on the chemtrails toxic issues or on the problems with the Jews controlling the US shadow Govt.

Crooks are crooks and there are several here.

IMHO,
is

Insurrectionchemistry

01-18-2005, 06:49 AM

Halva writes:

"I am not going to dialogue with you about Jews on this thread, just as I am not going to dialogue with Raynolds on the subject of chemtrails.

That said, I value everything you are posting here on subjects related to your expertise in the natural sciences, and I will try to be a good student for you."

==========

Halva,

I guess the world is supposed to be impressed that your highest skill in debate is to say I can't talk about it. Did someone have to lead you down to the internet Cafe and sign you onto the machine for you to say that?

Lets face it Halva, your skills of learning and debate are very low. You can't debate yourself out of a wet paper bag with simple sciences. You have not shown any significant ability to learn on this Forum.

Case in point. Lets use the JP-8 issues that have been tossed out in bits and pieces on this Forum. The first thing you should pick up is that JP-8 is a jet fuel designed to be corrective of global warming. That should be very significant in a global warming debate----oil companys responding to the problems of global warming by designing special fuels to compensate.

You should have been taking note of the lowered sulfur and raised hydrogen levels in JP-8, which are both admissions that global warming is a very serious problem. Instead, what do we see -- something along the lines of a functional illiterate. "I can't."

Now any person taking note would notice the JP-8 is a fuel designed for global warming. They would then easily be able to connect that the lowered Sulfur makes the global warming worse, so one better have some offsetting factors for that. Most persons would quickly find that the JP-8's enhanced H/C ratio cuts the CO-2 emissions, raises the H2O formation, and also raises the C-H formation of bezene like compounds.

What are we to conclude is that you appear to not able to defend yourself against the crooked Reynolds gang because you can't read? Sure looks like you can't read, can't comment intelligently, and can't talk about much that might have you think. Your biggest skill is lifting a cup of coffee at the Cafe and keeping this mess going on at Ariannas indefintely-----because you can't.

I do think the finger of why things go in circles here all the time and your run up a tree crying I can't is purely your making false claims on learning. Perhaps you need to go ask for F_S's permission to say something new or to have some opionion other than "I can't or I won't discuss that."

You are not looking to be informed or literate on the issues of global warming even to the point of ignoring rather obvious factors on JP-8. Which means you likely need to spend more time at the Cafe, cause you sure don't contribute much to exposing the problems.

It appears totally beyond your comprehension skills to connect that the reasons the oil companies are spending so much money on making the changes needed to produce JP-8 is because the jet emissions cause much more problems due to their release altitudes and the higher levels of radiation there and their higher distribution into the atmosphere. JP-8 is a major indicator of the US's recognition of global warming. The rest of the JP-8 factors make for rain over land to get to acid load off the ocean's CO-2 absorbing plankton, and to rain out these acids that decompose due to radiation at higher altitudes and concentrate over the poles leading to enhanced warming factors there.

I really don't know what to think of this level of stupidity Halva. Do you have some excuse other than I can't? It is beginning to appear that you make more by keeping the issues dumbed down and you get a lifetime job by not addressing such simple issues.

Your intentions here look about as sincere as a market investor that goes down to the internet cafe to look at his stock investments, but your investment is keeping this global warming stuff in grid lock so you can go down to the Cafe every morning and claim to make no money. Looks like your ominous levels of stupidity are all about job security---a perpetual motion machine for you.

You would obviously do much better for all concerned to simply stay home. Cause your looking like a ball and chain to the others, and one of the biggest boosts to Reynolds ego in the internet. Which means----your are the central problem here Halva. So, let us hear more of this deal you made with Reynolds not to talk about chemtrails or how they directly related to global warming issues via JP-8. Guess we know the answer----I can't.

What will F_S and the others think of these deals that enhance your job forever?

Hell Halva, you can't even get the natural order stuff in the right order. You appear to be in the wrong business, you would be better as a Cafe manager.

IMHO,
is