It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature

[halva]

Fred Singer and company are so reminiscent of Edward Teller and the arguments he would dig up to show that no arms control treaty could ever be enforced.

And journalism like shows only too clearly how much of the climate change debate is still being carried out on the terms of people who could not give a damn about anything.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4021197.stm

Climate change sceptics 'wrong'
By Richard Black
BBC environment correspondent

A major argument used by sceptics of global warming is flawed, a UK Met Office study in Nature magazine says.

This argument maintains that much recorded climate data is inherently unreliable because of where weather instruments are situated.

Most are in or near cities, which produce their own heat; so the rapid warming measured over the last century could be just a record of urbanisation.

The Met Office believes its study shows this "urban heat island" idea is wrong.

The analysis has been done by Dr David Parker. He used data for the last 50 years to create two separate graphs. One plots temperatures observed on calm nights, the other on windy nights.

If the urban heat island hypothesis is correct, he says, instruments should have recorded a bigger temperature rise for calm nights than for windy ones - because wind blows excess heat away from cities and away from the measuring instruments.

Opposing sides

But there is no difference between the curves. "It helps to answer the critics," Dr Parker told BBC News.

"There are other kinds of temperature measurements, too, which could not be influenced by urbanisation, such as warming in the oceans.

"Different methods of measurement can produce different rates of warming but they all point upwards."

Dr Myles Allen, from the atmospheric physics department at Oxford University, agrees: "It's pretty convincing," he said.

"It's a sensible analysis which tests a prediction of the sceptical theory; and if it's right, we should see a greater effect on calm nights.

"But you should never underestimate the ingenuity of the sceptics to come up with a counter-argument."

One of the most prominent scientifically grounded sceptics is Fred Singer, president of the Science and Environmental Policy Project in Arlington, Virginia, US.

"Many people have tried to correct for the urban heat island effect," he told BBC News.

"I'm not sure David Parker has succeeded, but we admire his ingenuity."

Selective data

Dr Singer said that many weather stations in apparently rural settings might experience a certain amount of heating from nearby settlements or even roads.

"The only true rural records are proxy records, such as the ones from tree rings," he argued.

Other types of proxy records - where natural processes are examined to provide a an indication of past climate - include stalactites, fossil beds, ice cores, ocean sediments and glacial deposits.

The sceptics accuse the "warmers" of being selective in their use of these proxies to show that recent trends go beyond what would be expected from natural variation.

A separate research paper, also published in this week's Nature, has found a different kind of proxy - but definitely of human origin.

A French team, led by Dr Pascal Yiou, from the Climate and Environments Laboratory in Gif-sur-Yvette, examined parish records of grape-harvest dates in Burgundy going back to 1370.

"Grape harvest dates, which are closely related to temperature... may provide one of the longest uninterrupted series of regional temperature anomalies," the writes in the journal.

Warmer periods

The study focussed on the Pinot Noir grape; and shows that in Burgundy, temperatures in the 1990s, although higher than average, were not that unusual - some years in the 1400s and 1500s had been warmer.

"This takes us back about as far as the comprehensive tree-ring records," commented Dr Allen, "and the nice thing is, there's an absolute record of what happened in which year.

"The obvious problem would be if there were changes in agricultural practice, or if the Pinot Noir grape had changed significantly over time."

Dr Yiou believes things have not changed: "The farming practices are the same; they still don't use any chemicals or anything like that," he told BBC News.

"Also, we compared our temperature records from the grapes with tree-ring data from nearby places, and they showed the same pattern."

The one year which stands out as being exceptionally warm is 2003 - the year of the French heatwave which claimed thousands of lives.

"It confirms 2003 was an unprecedented year in France," said Dr Allen.

"But this only tells us about one region of France; somewhere in the world, extreme temperatures happen every year."

Dr Yiou now plans to expand his studies to Bordeaux and Italy, where there are similar records.

[foot_soldier]

.....Fred Singer and company are so reminiscent of Edward Teller and the arguments he would dig up to show that no arms control treaty could ever be enforced.....
They have an agenda to sustain - and they're nicely compensated for their efforts:

From "Boiling Point", pages 51-52:

In its effort to sabotage the unprecedented scientific consensus of the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) ExxonMobil has basically picked up where the coal industry left off.

During the 1990's, that effort had been spearheaded by Fred Palmer, who, around the time of the Bush election, was hired as chief lobbyist for Peabody Energy. Prior to his hiring by Peabody, Palmer headed up the Western Fuels Association, a $400-million coal consortium that had funded a tiny handful of "greenhouse sceptics" who had long been dismissed by the mainstream scientific community.

Throughout the 1990's, Palmer directed an extensive and extremely successful public relations offensive funded by the coal industry that used such prominent "greenhouse sceptics" as Fred Singer, Pat Michaels, Sherwood Idso and Robert Balling, among others. One campaign, which sent three of these "sceptics" around the country to do media interviews, was crafted, according to its strategy papers, "to reposition global warming as theory rather than fact" and more specifically, was designed to target "older, less-educated men... and young, low-income women" in districts that get their electricity from coal and preferably have a member on the House Energy Committee, according to the strategy papers for the campaign.

Over the last ten years, those "sceptics" received more than a million dollars, either directly or indirectly, from coal and oil interests. Their strategy was quite simple -- continue to raise doubts about the science in order to preempt any public demand for action.

( ... )

What is especially telling about the industry-funded "greenhouse sceptics" is their lack of standing in the scientific community. In a review of Michaels' work, Tom M.L. Wigley, a preeminent climate modeler at the National Center for Atmospheric Research (Boulder, CO) concluded it was so flawed that not only would it fail to pass the scrutiny of qualified climate scientists, it would not even be accepted for peer review.

As for Singer, he has been unable to publish anything in the peer-reviewed literature in the last twenty years except for one technical comment.

Singer's recklessness transcends his deeply flawed scientific pronouncements. It involves at least one public lie about his own funding. In early 2001, Singer was accused of having his work funded by the oil industry. In response, Singer wrote in a letter to the Washington Post that he had not received any oil industry money for at least twenty years -- when he had done a consulting job for the industry.

In fact, Singer received at least $10,000 and as much as $75,000 from ExxonMobil alone, according to information on the oil giant's own web site. Shortly after that information was published in the Nation (March 20, 2001) ExxonMobil withdrew the page from its web site. END excerpt.

[foot_soldier]

November 29, 2004
EurekAlert!

Stratosphere temperature data support scientists' proof for global warming
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-11/uow-std112904.php

A new interpretation for temperature data from satellites, published earlier this year, raised controversy when its authors claimed it eliminated doubt that, on average, the lower atmosphere is getting warmer as fast as the Earth's surface.

Now, in another study headed by the same researcher to be published Dec. 15 in the Journal of Climate, direct temperature data from other scientists has validated the satellite interpretation.

A team headed by Qiang Fu, a University of Washington atmospheric sciences associate professor, earlier examined measurements collected from January 1979 through December 2001 by devices called microwave-sounding units on National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration satellites. Different channels of the microwave-sounding units measure radiation at different frequencies, providing data for different layers of the atmosphere.

In the case of the troposphere, the layer from the surface to an altitude of about 7.5 miles, where most weather occurs, it was believed there had been less warming than what was recorded at the surface. However, Fu's team determined the satellite readings of the troposphere were imprecise because about one-fifth of the signal actually came from a higher atmosphere layer called the stratosphere, which for the last few decades has been cooling several times faster than the troposphere has been warming. The group devised a method to remove the stratosphere signal from the satellite data and was left with results that closely matched the warming at the surface. That work was published in May in the journal Nature.

However, critics contended the method overcompensated for the cooling effects of the stratosphere and thus overstated the amount of warming in the troposphere. The criticisms did not appear in peer-reviewed journals.

In the new study, Fu and Celeste Johanson, a UW atmospheric sciences graduate student, used direct stratosphere temperature measurements to examine the contamination from the stratosphere in the satellite channel that measures troposphere temperatures. They also used the same data to evaluate their method for removing the stratosphere contamination. The data they used came from scientists at NOAA and the Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research in England.

Using the direct stratosphere temperature trend profiles from 1979 through 2001, Fu's team found that the stratosphere contamination in the satellite channel measuring the troposphere amounted to about a minus one-tenth of a degree Celsius per decade. They used their new method to remove the contamination, leaving an influence from the stratosphere of less than one-hundredth of a degree on troposphere temperature trends. The results match closely with what would be expected from the Fu team's new interpretation of satellite data.

"These results are consistent with the results that the Nature paper gets," Fu said. "It is an independent check of the problem because we used completely independent data sets. The independent observations agree with our conclusions, and that's quite powerful evidence."

The Fu team's work indicates the troposphere has been warming at about two-tenths of a degree Celsius, or nearly one-third of a degree Fahrenheit, per decade. That closely resembles measurements of warming at the surface, something climate models have suggested would result if the warmer surface temperatures are the result of greenhouse gases.

The findings are important because, for years, satellite data inconsistent with warming at the surface have fueled the debate about whether climate change is actually occurring.

If contamination of troposphere signals by those from the stratosphere isn't taken into account for the last 25 years, Fu said, estimates of how much warming actually occurred in the troposphere during that time would be off by 40 percent to 70 percent.

[foot_soldier]

March 2000
Harvard Medical School
Center for Health and the Global Environment
http://www.med.harvard.edu/chge/ozone-v2n1.htm

Excerpt:

NASA AND THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITY JOIN IN ARCTIC CAMPAIGN ON STRATOSPHERIC OZONE

After living with nature's whims for centuries modern man wants to be in control: predict what once was unpredictable, or even better, determine nature's course for "the benefit of human kind". Although scientists and engineers may have made some modest progress in this area over the past century, the greatest effects on nature from our modern civilization went unnoticed at first. Our exploitation of natural resources appears to be catching up with us: we have become very aware that the modern western civilization is operating at a scale that is no longer negligible in the context of the global environment. The effects that have come into the limelight most are 1) global warming from carbon dioxide ("the greenhouse effect") and 2) the depletion of the stratospheric ozone layer from chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) and other ozone degrading substances (ODSs). CFCs are chemically inert, i.e., non-toxic, non-corrosive, and by that virtue found their way into all kinds of industrial products, most notably in refrigerators and air conditioners. The discovery in 1974 that these innocuous substances can be responsible for the deterioration of the stratospheric ozone came as a nasty surprise.

Global environmental problems were at first dealt with independently, but it was soon recognized that CFCs and related substances may actually contribute to the greenhouse effect. To compound the problem even more, it has recently become clear that the greenhouse effect in the lower atmosphere can cause a cooling higher up in the stratosphere which in turn can lower the ozone concentration at these high altitudes. There is serious concern that this stratospheric cooling from greenhouse gases may actually slow down the recovery of the ozone layer in the 21th century by decades.

The excessive effects of stratospheric cooling is demonstrated each year in the formation of the "ozone hole" over Antarctica early in the Austral Spring (maximum size in October). Although not as extreme, substantial losses in stratospheric ozone have also been observed over the North Pole in early Spring (maximum in March).

This difference between the North and South Poles is mainly due to the formation of a more stable vortex of polar air at the South Pole which leads to more extreme cooling. Cooling can result in Polar Stratospheric Clouds which mediate the release of ozone-degrading, reactive chlorine from inorganic molecules (HCL and ClONO2).

[foot_soldier]

March 30, 2001
Ozone-Eating Clouds Form in Cold Polar Rings
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/planetearth/ozone_eating_clouds_010330.html

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Ozone-eating clouds that erode Earth's protection against ultraviolet radiation are born in thin rings of supercold air over the North and South Poles, scientists reported on Thursday.

The Sun's ultraviolet rays could cause skin cancer in humans and biological damage to other living things if Earth were not shielded by the ozone layer high in the atmosphere. But polar stratospheric clouds made of nitric acid and water deplete this protective layer.

Scientists have known about the clouds for years, but U.S. researchers have just discovered the bands of frigid air in the stratosphere that help to create them, according to an article in the current edition of the journal Science.

And as Earth's surface gets warmer, due to heat trapped by so-called greenhouse gases, the stratosphere gets colder, making it an even better place to create the ozone-depleting clouds, NASA researcher Azadeh Tabazadeh said.

The more these high polar clouds proliferate, the slower Earth's recovery from ozone depletion, Tabazadeh said in a telephone interview from the NASA's Ames Research Center in California.

The polar stratospheric clouds do their work by sucking nitrogen out of the cold air. Because they are made up of large particles, each the size of a bit of road dust, the clouds are heavy and pull out the nitrogen as they fall toward Earth, Tabazadeh said.

Nitrogen is important because it reacts with the chlorine in human-made chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). Now banned under international agreements, CFCs have long been identified as a prime cause of ozone depletion.

The polar stratospheric clouds pack a double punch, Tabazadeh said: They take away nitrogen, which can mitigate the effects of ozone depletion, and they also activate chlorine, which spurs ozone depletion.

Still, if Earth's climate stayed constant, the ozone layer should start recovering because CFCs are being limited. But Earth's surface climate is warming, which means the stratosphere is cooling.

"The surface warming causes a cooling in the stratosphere and the cooling promotes more ozone depletion," Tabazadeh said. "Global warming is actually affecting the ozone depletion."

"I think the best thing to do is try to control the global warming issue," she said. "And that could be controlled by less emissions of greenhouse gases and also less emissions of soot. It's very hard to regulate."

[foot_soldier]

From the above-posted article:
.....The polar stratospheric clouds pack a double punch, Tabazadeh said: They take away nitrogen, which can mitigate the effects of ozone depletion, and they also activate chlorine, which spurs ozone depletion.....
May 31, 2000
Source: University of Colorado at Boulder
Arctic Ozone Depletion Linked To Longevity Of Polar Stratospheric Clouds, Say Studies
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/05/000531072520.htm

Excerpt:

.....The greenhouse effect, which warms Earth near its surface, may ironically be cooling the stratosphere enough to cause these clouds to form earlier and persist longer, said Toon. Greenhouse gases may be radiating energy and heat away from the upper stratosphere, creating prime conditions for polar stratospheric cloud formation.

"With the clouds persisting longer, we are seeing greater ozone losses even though the amount of chlorine in the atmosphere has declined slightly," said Toon. The use of CFC’s and other ozone-destroying chemicals were banned worldwide in 1996.

Another troubling phenomenon observed for the first time during the SOLVE campaign last winter was a "denitrification" of some polar stratospheric clouds. Scientists observed nitrogen -- which can act to moderate the destructive activity of reactive chlorine compounds on ozone -- drizzling out of the clouds. "This was a real surprise," said Toon..... END excerpt.

[foot_soldier]

Re: Climate change sceptics 'wrong'

halva wrote:
.....And journalism like (this) shows only too clearly how much of the climate change debate is still being carried out on the terms of people who could not give a damn about anything.....
True.

But the people you describe are not the only voices on this matter.

They're just the loudest - for now.

[foot_soldier]

Antarctic State of the Environment
Australian Antarctic Division

Indicator 13 - Polar stratospheric cloud observations at Davis
http://aadc-maps.aad.gov.au/aadc/soe/display_indicator.cfm?soe_id=13

Excerpt:

.....The formation of stratospheric clouds in the polar regions requires special conditions relating to temperature and chemistry. The clouds play a critical role in the depletion of ozone at high latitudes by initiating heterogeneous chemical reactions that convert chlorine and bromine compounds to reactive forms. A general cooling of the stratosphere is predicted to accompany anthropogenically enhanced greenhouse-gas warming of the lower atmosphere. This may provide conditions more favourable for the formation of stratospheric clouds. However, perturbations to stratospheric thermodynamics and chemistry can be caused by volcanic events. Long-term quantification of stratospheric cloud properties will aid in understanding and predicting natural and anthropogenic variability..... END excerpt.

[halva]

Worth reading:

Tom Nairn's critique of Timothy Garton Ash's book "Free World".

http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates/article-3-77-2249.jsp

On the cultural aspects of the Americanisation of the world.

(Personally, I don't mind if everyone is being forced to become an American.

What I object to is Americans being prevented from developing into something better than they are now.)

Tom Nairn is one of the old "New Left Review" stalwarts from whom I found myself parting politically at the end of the Cold War. Interestingly, a certain rapprochement seems to be under way now, notwithstanding the aversion of these 'left gatekeepers' to 'conspiracy theories'.

Timoth Garton Ash is a British Tory whose "In Europe's Name" gives a masterly account of German Ostpolitik and the collapse of the Eastern bloc. Now he has this new book: "Free World".

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Ah Yes,

I think we see a pattern here, JR is vested with GE and Hess oil. Likely owns lots of their stocks, plus retirement vested.

GE makes the largest turbines used to fog the skies of the world, which environmentalists don't like. And if chemtrail activists see the larger equation on the whys of chemtrails for global warming remediation, there goes his retirement.

JR has to affect the public's mind to keep those stock futures high. Big SEC issue. JR is trying to emulate Martha and her turkey cooking in the big house.

That appears to be why JR is so predatory toward chemtrails lists and stalks all of them calling them names and insults, even infamous threats. JR sounds like he is close to the rare island tribe that appeared on the movie "Joe and the Volcano," all of whom were drug addicted to high caffeine orange crush tall boys. This rare tribe was best known for their poor sense of direction and their worship of a volcano. Plus, singing lots of old Hebrew chants.

The tribal leader of the rare people called the "Icon-e-Wooo," was a Talmudist. Masters of hot air they were, like their loyal JR. Their decendants became Masons obcessed on volcano shapes they became. Rare birds, They could both see and speak in two directions simultaneously.

JR's St. Croix was often covered in volcano dust from Monsurratt, and we can see what that did to these special natives of the movie. Till one day, the natives wanted to cook some Gentiles (Human sacrifice to a volcano god) and the crazy natives and the "Woo" volcano they worshiped all sank beneath the waves. Booo-hooo.

The volcano was more rational than the crazy natives. Then again, that is always the way of mother nature.

Miracles even occured when the Gentile's brain cloud was lifted. Sounds like a chemtrails story.

Moral of the story, don't follow crazy natives. Nor JR and his human sacrifice pals. Don't ever let them "Wooo" you.

Just trust in mother nature for mankind to be saved. How simple things become when we get far away from the fake designs of man. and those of the screwed up Oinker "Wooo."

It is so easy to rise above it all, when your mind's eye is opened to the clearer visions.

IMHO,
is

[jayreynolds]

How about a motion for ignore-listing Gaiacomm if he keeps making comments at this level?

Of course I am not including the views of debunkers, which I can't read anyway, since they are already ignore-listed.
Wayne, everybody knows you and Deborah read everything posted on this forum, you haven't ignore-listed anyone, ever.
Deal with it. It's reality.

[jayreynolds]

Hey, Wayne, what sort of cut are these dagos giving you to advertise their barium hoax DVD?
http://www.macrolibrarsi.it/libro.php?cid=14&cname=Cospirazionismo%20e%20misteri&sid=135&sname=Verit%E0%20segrete&lid=5559&lname=Scie%20Chimiche%20-%20DVD

I see they had to reduce the price by 15%, LOL...........

All yerp laughs at the antisemitic ravings of you chemmies.

[gaiacomm]

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

And may your New Year bring you Joy and Love!

And to all of you Readers......

And to you as well JR and Company......and Karen!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

JR is avoiding reality again. All the nice people have blocked JR's irrational behaviors.

And "is" have been assigned to be JR's baby sitter.

The only time JR can get a message here to the nice people is via "is" approval. Which, from JR's past behaviors, will be very rare events.

"Reality for U JR." Your own corrupt person makes for your shunning. Part of the Human Nature to reject satan's spiel. Smitten JR has become by truth tellers and simple jawbones.

So goes the beleaguered saga of JR's (and his Woo-woo masters) contempt for the human world environment and his fall from the grace of God (Jesus and NT version).

IMHO,
is

Note: "is" makes a distinction between "God" (capital "G" -- linking Jesus and NT) and "god" (small letter "g" -- linking the fake god issues of Torah and Talmud--meaning the anti-Christ). It is dichotomy that the Bush types exploit in the White House and some of this list also do the same.

[gaiacomm]

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

And may your New Year bring you Joy and Love!

[hoot]

Since I'm half "jewish" myself and not at all into that self hate mode, I've had to look a little deeper than most and root out information on the cloaked stealth klan that is really pulling the strings on all of us to pull off their plans for total world control.Since we outnumber them a thousand to one, their number 1 weapon, to do this, has always been since their last open combat with the romans at Carthage,is to use mis-information race and religious issues to divide us so that we kill each other for their profit and enjoyment. What is left, they usually finish off with their expertice in poisons etc. to again expose their "bloodline" to little risk. This "bloodline" is the old phoenician>cannanite>merovinegian{Royals} and their ashkanazi{house jews}gofers. All claim they are something else; but at heart are still the bronze age intermarried trading klans that opened up the trade routes in the world bringing their secret religion of MOLECH fire and blood everywhere before 2000bc. They never expose themselves in the open and always hide themselves behind false fronts and religions. The first king[Saul]was tricked into letting them into the hebrew religion in 1070bc, and we have had to pay hell for it ever since!

[halva]

Wow!!!

So what can we do about it?

Where is Saul's grave? Let's find out, and after that we can discuss what the next step should be.

[jayreynolds]

You know, Wayne Hall and Deborah, having racists like Jim Phelps act as your spokemen for the "chemtrails" cult isn't such a good idea. Things like that spider their way into the archives of the net and stick there.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22Jim+Phelps%22+%22Deborah+Stark%22+%22wayne+ha ll%22+racist+chemtrails&btnG=Search

[gaiacomm]

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

And may your New Year bring you Joy and Love!

[gaiacomm]

For jewish Lovers: http://www.jewwatch.com/

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Greetings,

In the early days of chemtrail methods consideration, one of the many methods proposed at ORNL was this one that made use of the "fissy" fuel additives, aka "fsii." FSII's are just simple ethyl compounds added to jet fuel as anti-ice agents. They are often added on-site at varied military instillations. The concept is similar to the ethyl lead added to gasoline, as designed by DuPont's Ethyl Company.

The concept as simple as adding lead to ethyl compounds for gasoline, except this time would add other metals such as Al, Ti, or Ba to FSII compounds. That was the beginning of the chemtrails design at US national labs.

It has grown vastly since then to varied other techniques. The mainstay of the efforts have been to compensate for global warming using Mie Scattering and rain out the HF in the atmosphere connected to fossil fuels use.

Other ideas initially considered the Al processes of the refineries to add the Al to the fuel chain. The Al based (zeolite-Si/Al) methods are a required part in making chemtrail methods work better, as the sulfur needs to be reduced to keep the acid rain from jet fuel sulfur down. These high sulfur levels add directly to the acid soil effects that liberate metals (especially Aluminum) into animal and human food chains. So, lowering the sulful content in jet fuels has been a long term objective and the DOE chemtrail methods design.

The intended full scope of the chemtrails remediation process was to use the many commercial jet planes around the globe to make an increasing level of clouds via seeding methods to reflect some of the IR heat back into space and to increase the rates of rain out of hydrogen fluoride and other acid gases from the atmosphere.

Today, one can just simply look up in the skies to see the results of this 15 plus year effort that was invented by DOE and Oak RIdge in the mid-80s to make commercial jet plane's chemical exhaust into reflectors of IR heat back into space. The effect is most commonly called chemtrails, which are clouds formed from seeding methods.

IMHO,
is

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/aviationfuel/4_at_fuel_comp.shtm

Fuel System Icing Inhibitor Ice can form in fuel tanks at the very low temperatures encountered at high altitude. Generally, this ice is formed from water that was dissolved in the fuel when it was loaded onto the aircraft but separated from the fuel as the fuel temperature dropped. Most commercial aircraft have heaters on their main fuel filters to melt any ice that is collected. However, many military aircraft do not have these heaters and are susceptible to reduced fuel flow if ice crystals form.
Fuel system icing inhibitors (FSII, pronounced "fizzy") work by combining with any free water that forms and lowering the freezing point of the mixture so that no ice crystals are formed.


The only FSII currently approved for Jet A, Jet A-1, and U.S.military fuels is di-ethylene glycol monomethylether (di-EGME). A similar compound, ethylene glycol monoethylether, is allowed in Russian TS-1 fuel.
di-EGME is only slightly soluble in fuel but is very soluble in water, which leads to various handling problems. Since the additive is only slightly soluble in fuel, it must be added in small amounts with good mixing to ensure that it is completely dissolved in the fuel, especially when it is added at low ambient temperatures. In practice, the additive must be injected at a controlled rate into a flowing stream of fuel.
di-EGME



If a fuel containing FSII comes into contact with free water, the additive will be extracted out of the fuel and form a thick, gelatinous phase with the water, an obviously unacceptable situation. To avoid contact with free water, FSII is usually not added to fuel at a refinery but at some point in the fuel distribution system. For the military, it may be added at the airport or on delivery to the aircraft itself. Similarly, when required by small jets, it may be added during delivery to the aircraft. FSII is not used in jet fuel by large commercial carriers.

[gaiacomm]

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

And may your New Year bring you Joy and Love!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Gaia,

You won the copy and paste award this week, plus the one for going over the blue line. Pleeze...no one can have a Merry "Christ"-mas when 99 percent of Americas have lost Christ's message. Sure you are not saying merry X-mas?

IMHO,
is

PS: X-mas is the anti-christ greeting. X being symbolic for the removal of Christ's message from the church and holiday.

[halva]

Climate change altering fire season
By Robert Wainwright
December 6, 2004


Heavy rain across NSW in October and November will not save the state from a brief but intensive fire season, possibly in February or even March, says the Rural Fire Service Commissioner, Phil Koperberg.

Fire seasons were changing, he said, delivering a sobering assessment of the coming season. He likened conditions to those of 1994, when 800 fires ringed Sydney for three weeks after Christmas, killing four people, destroying 300 homes and reducing 800,000 hectares to ash.

"It's very easy for people to become blase about a bit of rain around the country," Mr Koperberg said.

He also revealed that he kept a diary in which he recorded a "rough description" of the weather.

"The other day I went back to 1994 and found that it rained in September and October of 1994, and yet by Christmas we had one of the worst fire seasons on record.

"I am not saying we are going to have another 1994. We won't, unless we really stuff up.

"Technology has improved, the competency of fire fighters has moved on, they are better equipped, reconnaissance is better. We'd have to be asleep for that to happen [again]."

But despite the recent rain, only 10 days of hot, dry weather were needed for Sydney to go back into a fire season.

Mr Koperberg said the biggest danger months for big bushfires in NSW was likely to be January and February.

"The traditional fire season is a thing of the past," he said.

"Ten to 15 years ago we talked about changing global weather patterns being in the distant future. Well it's here now, perhaps not with the intensity of another 10, 15 or 25 years' time, when we'll really know it, but there is change."

Mr Koperberg said there was no longer a traditional chronological pattern to the fire season. "We used to talk about the fire season starting on October 1 and fighting our first fire on October 2. What we see now is record high temperatures in September and record low temperatures in November ... Now there is no pattern.

"Once upon a time fire seasons were October and November. The big-ticket fires, apart from Hobart in 1967 and Ash Wednesday in 1983, were all early.

"Twenty years ago November was the fire month and things would slow down by Christmas as the humid air came through. Now it's the other way around. If you take the drought out of the equation, where we were getting grass fires in July, then fire seasons begin to impact later.

"There is a fair chance that the whole season just shifts along, and the weather we normally get in November moves to January. The weather we get in January, we might get in March."

[jayreynolds]

Wayne Hall and Deborah Stark,
It really doesn't matter how much environews you post here.
Nobody is listening.

Gaiacomm(aka Lance Haubrick) and your spokesman Jim Phelps destroy any credibility you might seek with their racist commentary. Inviting them here and asking them to run your debate for you was perhaps the worst mistake you ever made.
ha!
Serves you right, but don't say I didn't warn you.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Dear infamous jay reynolds,

Perhaps you need to go spend lots more time with your wife and children because the day nears that the FBI and Federal Martials will come for you. Perhaps they will be better when such a hate driven abusive person leaves them.

"Con"spiring with oil companies and jet companies to cover up the big DOE global warming remediation plan is not on the up and up.

Sure looks to me like Jay Reynolds is conspiring with oil and jet companies (NY Hess Oil and GE Jet turbines) to cover up jet fuel products used to seed clouds in the global warming cover ups connected to fossil fuels.

Jay Reynolds and his Oil/Jet linked Mafia types appear to be doing some terrorist like mass poisoning of large land masses with metal poisons.

IMHO,
is

[jayreynolds]

In the early days of chemtrail methods consideration, one of the many methods proposed at ORNL was this one that made use of the "fissy" fuel additives, aka "fsii." FSII's are just simple ethyl compounds added to jet fuel as anti-ice agents. They are often added on-site at varied military instillations. The concept is similar to the ethyl lead added to gasoline, as designed by DuPont's Ethyl Company.

Jim, as my debinker buddy Chem11 says, you 'whistleblowers' never seem to come up with any evidence, just claims. Evidence would consist of names, dates, places, documents....

So what are the names of the people who "proposed" this?
So, on what date was it proposed?
So, exactly which "varied" military installations are these metals added to de-icing additives?

You are going to pretend I didn't ask these questions by ignoring them, but you do so at your own peril.
For ultimately it's not simply me that will ask such questions. If you keep on making claims you can't support, even your friends will be asking them too. When they get the same runaround, they will ultimately conclude you just made it all up, and you, like so many others before you, will never be taken seriously again.


The concept as simple as adding lead to ethyl compounds for gasoline, except this time would add other metals such as Al, Ti, or Ba to FSII compounds. That was the beginning of the chemtrails design at US national labs.

So, now you again claim that aluminum, Titanium, and Barium are added to jet fuel,a claim you failed to substantiate before, and eventually were forced to admit was false, Jimbo.

Why can't you get your story straight?

If your claims are true, why won't you give us the chemical formulas for which Al, Ti, of Ba compounds are added to FSII compounds?

Oh, and where is that fuel analysis you promised us showing all these chemicals in the fuel, remember you promised those would be ready?

I even gave you the name of the lab right there in Knoxville, after you specified exactly which analytical methods should be used.

C'mon, Jimbo, your chemmiebuddies are waiting to see you show the "Joos" what you are made of, but it seems the "joos" are in full control of even you!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Greetings,

It appears that the good Holmstead folks up in Canada have picked up the aluminum rise connected to acid rain, which comes from the NOx and SOx effects of jet/ fossil fuels.

See: http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soiltest.html

Some interesting data on the Huge rise in soil aluminum levels are apparent. Jet Chemtrail methods induce higher rates of rain the pull down more of these chemical acids onto the soils.

So, one can see why the jet fuel types are trying to get the Sulfur levels down. Jets leave chemical trails composed of SOx, NOx (that come to make acids), plus lots of CO-2 (that adds to the high level air global warming problems), plus black soot, plus fuel formed/generated particles (products of chemical combustion) that form/seed clouds used to reflect IR and rain out acids. It is a chemical equation from jet fuel burning. Thus, chemtrails is the correct venacular.

All those "chemtrails" that deface the global air space are the direct result of chemical combustion products.

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

Gaia,

You won the copy and paste award this week, plus the one for going over the blue line. Pleeze...no one can have a Merry "Christ"-mas when 99 percent of Americas have lost Christ's message. Sure you are not saying merry X-mas?

IMHO,
is

PS: X-mas is the anti-christ greeting. X being symbolic for the removal of Christ's message from the church and holiday.


Thank you...I wish to share my award with JR and Company!

How about lets all Love one another this year and every year and God Bless you all!

[whitemajikman]

Greetings,

It appears that the good Holmstead folks up in Canada have picked up the aluminum rise connected to acid rain, which comes from the NOx and SOx effects of jet/ fossil fuels.

See: http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soiltest.html

Some interesting data on the Huge rise in soil aluminum levels are apparent. Jet Chemtrail methods induce higher rates of rain the pull down more of these chemical acids onto the soils.

So, one can see why the jet fuel types are trying to get the Sulfur levels down. Jets leave chemical trails composed of SOx, NOx (that come to make acids), plus lots of CO-2 (that adds to the high level air global warming problems), plus black soot, plus fuel formed/generated particles (products of chemical combustion) that form/seed clouds used to reflect IR and rain out acids. It is a chemical equation from jet fuel burning. Thus, chemtrails is the correct venacular.

All those "chemtrails" that deface the global air space are the direct result of chemical combustion products.

IMHO,
is


Your Barking up the wrong tree there JIM.......

I think you should Google Edmonton,And Also Google how Edmonton is the Centre for Oil Refinement in Alberta.

The Picture in your Link is with-in a few Km's of these refineries and I also think you should do some In-Depth research Regarding Aluminum and Coal Deposits another Alberta Energy staple.

I wonder How Much Dave paid for the Lab tests.......

Just to find that Aluminum has only recently started being tested and has no history to verify the claims being made by Dave.

Now Don't get me wrong here Dave is a good guy he is just wrong about his assumptions.

and has not portrayed Edmonton's other environmental problems that can cause increased levels of Aluminum.


Like ESSO,Sherrit-Gordon,Petro-Canada,Liquid-Air,Dow Chemical,Dupont,etc....etc....etc.......

Which have refineries and chemical factories in the area...........

To Blame it on a hoax (Chemtrails) without looking at all of the other possible factors is faulty investigation and faulty science.

So Jim one word for you.......


NEXT



WMM

[gaiacomm]

A True Jew!

[whitemajikman]

Thank you...I wish to share my award with JR and Company!

How about lets all Love one another this year and every year and God Bless you all!


If anybody deserves the cut and paste award.........


It would be Deborah in my view.......

Lots of Cut and paste with little commentary......

She hates to have to actually discuss her claims......

It's her version of a security blanket.........


Can't let reality in or it may harm her view of the world.........

WMM

[gaiacomm]

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!

And may your New Year bring you Joy and Love!

[halva]

A True Jew!

Gaiacomm, is it "really" "you" doing these postings or is there someone else also posting in your name?

All you do is provide motivation for the scum-of-the-earth hangers-on of Raynolds to remain hovering around this thread.

[halva]

Climate Talks Bring Bush's Policy to Fore

By Juliet Eilperin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 5, 2004; Page A01

In the four years since President Bush took office, scientific sleuths trying to understand the extent of global climate change -- and finger the culprits -- have come up with several important new clues:

• Glaciers in the Antarctic and in Greenland are melting much faster than expected, and the fastest moving glacier in the world has doubled its speed.

• Worldwide, plants are blooming several days earlier than they did a decade ago, and animals are migrating toward cooler climates across the globe.

• The oceans have absorbed extra heat trapped in the atmosphere, which indicates Earth's temperature should rise by another degree Fahrenheit in the coming decades.

The president's scientific and policy advisers on global warming do not dispute these findings, but none of them has persuaded the White House to alter its current climate policy. Rather than endorsing mandatory limits on carbon dioxide emissions linked to warming, the course embraced by most of America's allies, the White House is focusing on technological fixes: developing energy sources that burn cleaner or finding ways to extract excess carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere.

"Our approach is founded on sound science, and on trying to address, with different strategies, climate change," said Paula J. Dobriansky, undersecretary of state for global affairs.

International negotiators are to embark on a new round of climate talks tomorrow as researchers are still struggling with how to measure the effects of global warming and to predict what's in store.

"We're learning fast, but part of what we're learning is the climate system is really complicated. . . . I don't think we'll ever make the kind of prediction Bush would want," said Wallace S. Broecker, a geochemist at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. Broecker believes the United States has to act quickly to counter its contribution to global warming. "If we don't pick up the pace, we're not going to get there."

The United States is taking part in the Buenos Aires talks even though the administration opted out of the Kyoto Protocol, which will restrict carbon emissions in most industrialized nations starting in 2008. Dobriansky said U.S. officials will try to convince their counterparts that technological change, not government mandates, offers the best chance to preserve both economic growth and the environment.

As a candidate in 2000, Bush flirted with the idea of limiting carbon dioxide emissions, but he dismissed that option during his first year in office, saying that "given the limits of our knowledge," the nation was better off focusing on voluntary emissions reductions and better energy sources. To that end, the administration has poured nearly $8 billion into climate change research since 2001.

James R. Mahoney, who oversees this research as assistant secretary of commerce for oceans and atmosphere, said even though researchers have refined computer models, helped design a more sweeping global observation system and improved the world's overall knowledge of global warming, "We continue to be humbled in the limits of our own knowledge. . . . It's a daunting challenge."

But some of the government's own scientists, as well as many independent researchers, reject this assessment. James E. Hansen, who directs NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, told a University of Iowa audience in October that the administration is ignoring evidence of "dangerous anthropogenic interference" with the climate. "Anthropogenic" means human-caused, and his phrasing is significant because the United States pledged in 1992, as part of an agreement called the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change, to take all necessary steps to combat such interference.

"As the evidence gathers, you would hope they would be flexible," Hansen said of the administration in an interview. "You can't wait another decade" to cut carbon dioxide emissions, he added.

Hansen and other proponents of restricting greenhouse gases point to several recent studies that make the case for immediate action. These include a paper this year showing that ocean heat storage -- which reflects the difference between the energy the earth receives from the sun and the heat it emits back into space -- rose between 1993 and 2003 at a rate that conforms to current climate models. It also indicates that global temperatures will rise by 1 degree Fahrenheit over the next several decades.

[halva]

Scientists have also refined their understanding of other factors that could accelerate or temper climate change. At one point, researchers thought warming would cause more water to evaporate and form clouds, which cool the atmosphere. They recently discovered this was not the case. They also have begun to grasp the complex role that aerosols -- the fine particles emitted by cars, power plants and other sources -- play. Lighter-colored aerosols, such as car exhaust and power plant pollution, reflect sunlight and have a cooling effect, while darker ones, such as soot, absorb it. Both types of emissions will affect warming in the future, though scientists are still gauging their influence.

Other researchers have documented concrete indications of global warming's effects, such as these: Plants worldwide are blooming an average 5.2 days earlier per decade, according to Stanford University senior fellow Terry L. Root; and the opossum, an animal that confined its range to the South as recently as the Civil War, can now be found as far north as Ontario.

When all these indicators "line up in the same direction, what's the possibility that's all an accident?" asked Stephen H. Schneider, who co-directs Stanford University's Center for Environmental Science and Policy and advocates stricter carbon limits.

But some scientists do question the evidence. John R. Christy, an atmospheric science professor at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, said that despite a recent study suggesting the Arctic is warming much faster than the rest of the globe, the hottest years for Arctic temperatures in recorded history are 1937 and 1938, and current Greenland temperatures are not higher than they were 75 years ago. And Myron Ebell, who directs global warming and international environmental policy for the free-market Competitive Enterprise Institute, said some studies cast doubt on a U.N. pronouncement in 2001 that the 20th century was likely the warmest in a millennium.

Christy said, given the economic costs of imposing tighter controls on energy production, "The Bush administration is doing a more reasonable approach, considering that mandating carbon restrictions will have no measurable effect on what the climate will do."

Several senior administration officials said that while they agree that greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide contribute to climate change, restricting these emissions right now would cost jobs. Instead, they said, the government should continue to focus its efforts on promoting technologies that will curb pollution. One example is FutureGen, a $1 billion, decade-long power plant project to convert coal into gas and store carbon emissions underground. Bush has also sponsored a $1.7 billion, five-year hydrogen car project aimed at eliminating carbon dioxide emissions from cars.

"The U.S. position is maybe the only rational position, to identify and promulgate application of new technologies," said White House science adviser John H. Marburger III. "To do anything meaningful [on limiting greenhouse gas emissions] requires a dramatic cessation or reduction of economic activity. It's simply not practical at the present time."

Advocates of limiting greenhouse gases, however, remain optimistic they will eventually prevail. Christine Todd Whitman, Environmental Protection Agency administrator in Bush's first term, said mandatory carbon dioxide reductions are "going to happen at some point," in part because multinational corporations will demand that U.S. policy mirror European standards.

Larry J. Schweiger, president of the National Wildlife Federation, said Bush has an opportunity to outline a new climate policy in his second term.

"If President Bush personally sits down with the scientists and hears what has happened since he first came to office, we can work together to make progress on global warming," he said. "The president has an opportunity to leave behind a strong legacy of addressing one of the biggest challenges the world has ever faced. He shouldn't squander that opportunity."

[halva]

UN climate change convention set to begin in Argentina
by Odile Meuvret

BUENOS AIRES (AFP) — United Nations negotiations on climate change are set to resume here Monday, against the backdrop of the Kyoto Protocol officially taking effect early next year.
Argentina hosts the UN's annual climate change convention from December 6 to 17, just a month after Russian President Vladimir Putin put his signature to the international treaty on global warming.

Russia's official ratification of the treaty opened the way for it to become legally binding — and for serious work on further steps needed to curb human activities that could be gradually changing Earth's climate system.

The framework, negotiated in 1997, had previously been blocked because neither Russia nor the United States had ratified it.

The world's most ambitious and complex environmental accord legally commits industrialized countries to trimming output of six "greenhouse" gases, especially carbon dioxide, by at least 5.2% by 2012, compared with 1990 levels.

After it goes into effect February 16, rich countries that ratified it will be required to drastically cut emissions, which have increased in the meantime — Canada by 20% and Japan by 12%, for example.

But for all its diplomatic and economic import, the treaty will likely have a minimal impact on the climate. The gases it regulates, products primarily of burning oil, gas and coal, can persist in the atmosphere for hundreds of years.

Scientists say that reductions of around 60% are urgently needed to avoid wreaking potentially catastrophic damage to the world's economies. The present so-called commitment period under Kyoto runs out in 2012.

Negotiations begin next year on the second commitment period after 2012, and countries will be under pressure to make far deeper cuts, include China and India in targeted reductions and coax the USA back into the multilateral fold.

The United States produces a quarter of all carbon dioxide emissions.

In March 2001, President Bush said the USA, even though it had signed the 1997 framework agreement, would not ratify the outcome.

He said the cost of meeting Kyoto's commitments would be too high for the USA economy, and branded the treaty unfair, because only industrialized nations have to make targeted emissions cuts under the pact's timeframe.

Developing countries, including fast-growing India and China, are now responsible for about 40% of global emissions, but will overtake industrialized nations by about 2025, according to the International Energy Agency.

Emerging economies, led by India, consider any commitment to controlling emissions to be a hindrance to development.

European efforts to broach the future of negotiations stalled in a north-south clash in New Delhi in late 2002, and nearly derailed a ministerial declaration.

Mindful of that experience, host country Argentina is proceeding cautiously, not even aiming for a joint declaration by some 70 environmental ministers who are to convene in the conference's final three days.

The thorniest issue is to be addressed only in a panel discussion themed, "The Convention after 10 years: accomplishments and future challenges."

Diplomats say the UN envisions organizing seminars in coming months to prepare for the start of official negotiations in November 2005 on the post-2012 period.

[jayreynolds]

Greetings,

It appears that the good Holmstead folks up in Canada have picked up the aluminum rise connected to acid rain, which comes from the NOx and SOx effects of jet/ fossil fuels.

See: http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/soiltest.html

Looks to me like he asn't been properly liming his soil. With lime the aluminum wouldn't be so high because the soil ph would be in the proper range. Any farmer knows you have to lime once in awhile.

Hey, Jimbo. If aluminum was being sprayed in those hot-=damn big-'ol "chemtrails"<

HOW COME THEY DON'T SHOW UP ON ORDINARY WEATHER RADAR, DUMMY????

[The Shadow]

Hey, Jimbo. If aluminum was being sprayed in those hot-=damn big-'ol "chemtrails"<

HOW COME THEY DON'T SHOW UP ON ORDINARY WEATHER RADAR, DUMMY????
Pay attention, loser. The wavelength of “ordinary” weather radar is much too long to bounce off of matter the size of aerosol particulates. It is this same principle that allows broadcast AM radio waves to not be affected by the presence of buildings with in a city, while FM radio and television signals often suffer from “ghost” phenomena.

The Shadow knows where your credibility is headed... Do not forget to flush, Mr. Reynolds...

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi Shadow,

Good reply!! You appear to have Jay Reynolds number. He always appears the crook.

Shadow, Let us not overlook the obvious. Jay Reynolds response is always toward the fault of something other than big oil or jet planes. For example, the acid rain problems are the farmers fault. When the real fault is DOE and their helpers not reporting problems to farmers, ranchers, residents that farm, etc. Plus, the oil and jet plane companies helping hide the massive harm issue directly connected to them.

Acid rain comes from fossil fuel burning from jet planes. One of the big reasons the oil companies want the sulfur out of jet fuel is to cut down these acid rain effects. Despite the fact that sulfur actually cut global warming. They can compensate for that by making more clouds. They used to turn jet engines to not make so much water vapor, because it would upset everyone. Now they say damn that idea and tune them and the fuel H content using Al catalysists to make lots and engulf the skies. (Recall the Key: http://www.accelrys.com/cases/ornl.html)

The DOE has been into managing these problems since the 80s and it would be simply ludicrous not to think the DOE would not be right in the middle of these massive global warming effects that can literally swamp half the US and the globe. I was the one that kicked off these Global Systems Engineering like mediation concepts.

The acid rain effects directly drive this rise in metals seen in garden plots and really lands all around the globe. Little Bambi in the forest is eating toxic metals and Moo-moo bovine Betsie on the farm or ranch is eating this alumium and other toxic metals.

Jay Reynolds wants to blame this effect on poor farming and pass on the costs of jet acid rain to farmers and on to consumers. Jay Reynolds crazy denial plan leaves the deer in the fields and cows in the pastures unprotected. Perhaps Big Oil and GE Jets needs to set up a huge slush fund to pay for the damage they do to every American and every plant and wild thing on the planet. Ah, this is infamous Jay Reynolds worst fear. His criminal plan of denials.


We at ORNL explored all these type problems in Oak Ridge way back in the 80s. Oak Ridge is supported by two of the largest of TVA coal fired plants to run the power hungry DOE uranium gaseous diffusion plant that uses more power than NY city. Plus, the DOE allowed all kinds of HF to eascape from the Huge K-25 plant, from the TSCA incinerator, and from the Y-12 operations. This poisoned the land with acids, and the metals in the soils went crazy.

DOE did not like the idea of speading lime over half of Tennessee to fix the problems, so a deeper analysis transpired. We tracked down the major offender as being the fluoride complexing with toxic metals, particularly aluminum. Fluorides form G-protein like compounds called "AlFx" in research journals. These fluoride-metal or AlFx compounds get into the body easily and trigger cell signaling, even go past the blood-brain-barrier.

So, my analysis of the problem said the way to compensate for this was to add another metal to compete with the toxic metals. The cheepest metal to add was titanium, and it did not form G-protein like bonding agles with fluorine atoms. So, soon Oak Ridge and the entire region was dumped from the skies with titanium. It offset the F-Al problems, for farms for wildlife, for fishes, etc. It came with a price, as all the rooftop soon discolored due to the nitrigen absorption of TiO2 and it sticking to rooftops. DOE ruined the roofs in the entire region.

That is how I came to invent the Titanium chemtrail methods.

Jay Reynolds also would call letting a cow live too long as being poor farming. Because the ranchers now have to limit the lifetime to cattle sent to slaugher because of these acid rain effects making the toxic metals get into the cattle. All this BSE and mad cow stuff comes directly from this Al-F effect that upsets the metal metabolism in cattle's brains. So, the management plan to avoid this effect is limit the age of cattle going to slaughter, remove tissues like brain and bones, which is where the fluorides and metals land.

Cattle feed used to contain bone meal, but this is now banned in the US because of the mad cow compensation effects. The US failed to tell the UK of this little detail, and they had a huge cattle problem with mad cow, which resulted in the killing of massive entire herds all over the UK. Perhaps Jay Reynolds would like to pay for the level of deceit for those farmers injured by his games here for big oil and jet planes.

Who, in this Jey Reynolds crime syndicate, is going to pay for all these eco terrorism type dangers they have fousted on the American Public. Will Jay Reynolds be willing to pay for all these rises in Alzheimers rates and the early death of loved ones. Certainly not, Jay Reynolds and his crime syndicate will only lie, threaten, and steal the life from everyone on the planet.

That is the real question everyone needs to ask the infamous Jay Reynolds.

IMHO,
is

[Insurrectionchemistry]

One of the ways the AlFx relates to immune system and AIDS:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2545777&dopt=Abstract


1: J Immunol. 1989 Aug 1;143(3):780-6. Related Articles, Links


Stimulation of PIP2 hydrolysis by aluminum fluoride in resting T cell subsets of normal and autoimmune-prone lpr mice.

Coggeshall KM, Altman A.

Scripps Clinic and Research Foundation, Department of Immunology, La Jolla, CA 92037.

T cells of autoimmune-prone mice homozygous for the lpr mutation respond poorly to mitogens in terms of proliferation and of IL-2 production. In a previous study, we have correlated this deficient activation with the inability of mitogens to stimulate hydrolysis of phosphatidylinositol 4,5-bisphosphate in lpr T cells, although these cells bind mitogen and express the TCR/CD3 complex. In order to determine whether activation-deficient lpr T cells contain functional GTP-binding (G) protein(s) and phospholipase C, we examined the effects of the G protein activating agent sodium fluoride plus Al+3 (AlF-4). AlF-4 stimulated phosphatidylinositol turnover, a response characteristic of TCR/CD3 occupancy, in mature L3T4+ and Ly2+ T cells. Second, and more important, AlF-4 stimulated the same biochemical events in L3T4-, Ly2- (double-negative) T cells from the normal thymus or from the enlarged lymph nodes of autoimmune-prone mice homozygous for the lpr mutation. However, these double-negative T cells were unresponsive to receptor-active ligands such as T cell mitogens or anti-CD3-epsilon mAb, despite their ability to bind these ligands. These findings suggest that activation-deficient double negative T cells express the receptors, G protein(s) and effector enzymes necessary for second messenger formation and further suggest that the failure of these cells to generate the relevant second messengers in response to mitogens or anti-CD3-epsilon antibody may be due to inefficient coupling of the TCR/CD3 complex to G proteins.

PMID: 2545777 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

====

This effect is also due to acid rain fluoride metal problems:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-04/jhmi-mbh042502.php

Note: pH 7 systems render Mn insoluble and unavailable.
====

Add also that rising fluoride and toxic metals trigger enhanced cytokine presence of TNFa, which is a growth stimulator for retroviruses and you have the major vector for the HIV pandemic.

====

How will Jay Renolds pay for this---or should he go to prison? His current bill is in the trillions of dollars.

IMHO,
is

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Jay Reynolds and his corperate sponsors need to pay for this:


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12764073&dopt=Abstract

Crit Rev Oral Biol Med. 2003;14(2):100-14. Related Articles, Links


The biochemistry and physiology of metallic fluoride: action, mechanism, and implications.

Li L.

Faculty of Dentistry, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, MB, Canada. umlil@cc.umanitoba.ca

Fluoride is a well-known G protein activator. Activation of heterotrimeric GTP-binding proteins by fluoride requires trace amounts of Al3+ or Be2+ ions. AlFx mimics a gamma-phosphate at its transition state in a Galpha protein and is therefore able to inhibit its GTPase activity. AlFx also forms complexes with small GTP-binding proteins in the presence of their GTPase-activating proteins (GAP). As phosphate analogs, AlFx or BeFx affect the activity of a variety of phosphoryl transfer enzymes. Most of these enzymes are fundamentally important in cell signal transduction or energy metabolism. Al3+ and F- tend to form stable complexes in aqueous solution. The exact structure and concentration of AlFx depend on the pH and the amount of F- and Al3+ in the solution. Humans are exposed to both F and Al. It is possible that Al-F complexes may be formed in vivo, or formed in vitro prior to their intake by humans. Al-F complexes may play physiological or pathological roles in bone biology, fluorosis, neurotoxicity, and oral diseases such as dental caries and periodontal disease. The aim of this review is to discuss the basic chemical, biochemical, and toxicological properties of metallic fluoride, to explore its potential physiological and clinical implications.


IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

Gaiacomm, is it "really" "you" doing these postings or is there someone else also posting in your name?

All you do is provide motivation for the scum-of-the-earth hangers-on of Raynolds to remain hovering around this thread.

My children sometimes get a hold of my accounts and they seem to have at it all over the internet. They like freedom of speech! Kids will be Kids!

[gaiacomm]

Biblical Dates for Messiah's Conception and Birth





I. The Conception of Yochanan (John the Baptist) / Luke 1:5-25


When the angel, Gavri-El (Gabriel), appeared to Zachar'yah (Zacharias) as he was ministering in the Temple, it was during the ministration of Abiyah (Abia). This order of priests ministered in the Temple the eighth week of the Hebrew year according to the ordinance of 1 Chronicles 24:10 (and according to the Talmud). The eighth week transverses the last week of the second Hebrew month of Iyar and the first week of the third Hebrew month of Sivan, which culminates at Shavuot (Pentecost). This is the anchor point for discovering the exact time of Messiah Yeshua's birth. The angel promised Zachar'yah that his prayer had been answered, and when he went home to his wife Elisheva (Elizabeth) she conceived, it seems almost immediately. This puts the conception of Yochanan (John the Baptist) very near the time of Shavuot, the Feast of Pentecost, in the second week of the month of Sivan, the third Hebrew month.



II. The Conception of Yeshua (Jesus) / Luke 1:26-55


Then, at the close of the sixth month of Elisheva' s pregnancy the angel Gavri-El appeared to Mara (Mary). Gavri-EI told Mara about Elisheva, saying "she who was called barren is six months pregnant," This would be the last of the ninth Hebrew month called Kislev at the time of Chanukah. There are 27 weeks weeks between the end of discourse of Abiyah and the start of Chanukah (Dedication), which is celebrated eight days, from Kislev 25 to Tevet 2.



Mara accepts the word of the angel concerning the conception of Messiah in her, and she immediately rushes from Natseret (Nazareth) to the home of Elisheva and Zachar'Yah in the Judean mountains close to Yerushalayim, about a three days journey from Natseret. Mara was probably going there to celebrate Chanukah and to help Elisheva with her pregnancy, as well as to talk to Elisheva about the angel's visitation.



Upon Mara's greeting to Elisheva, Elisheva responds to Mara, calling her "the mother of my L-RD". This demonstrates that Mara was already pregnant with Yeshua. Thus, Yeshua was conceived at Chanukah, the Festival of Lights, for He is the Light of the World.



Sometimes the time of Chanukah falls close to Christmas. The apostate Roman church of medieval times combined the pagan winter solstice in late December with the 25th of Kislev (Chanukah) to create Christmas (Christ's Mass) on Dec- ember 25. Supposedly, this was to celebrate Christ's birth.



Yeshua is shown celebrating Chanukah in John 10:22,23. It is at this celebration that He declares "I and My Father are One" [John 10:30], which testifies to His Divine origin in His conception. It also reinforces Chanukah as the time of His conception.



Historically, then, it is more accurate to celebrate Yeshua entering the world through conception at Chanukah rather than to celebrate His birth at Christmas. As we shall show, Christmas is not the birthday of Christ. (In fact, Christmas is an invention resulting from religious compromise with pagan tradition. Christmas only has harmony with the truth, in that it falls approximately at the time of year when Yeshua was conceived by the Holy Spirit.)



III. The Birth of Yochanan/Luke l:56-80


Mara stayed with Elisheva for three months, which was until the birth of Yochanan. Since a full pregnancy term is 41 weeks, and 27 weeks makes up the first six months (two trimesters), which is exactly the time from the discourse of Abiyah to Chanukah, that leaves 14 weeks to accomplish the last trimester and bring the pregnancy to full term. There are exactly 14 weeks from Chanukah to Passover (Nisan 14-22). Therefore, John the Baptist was born at Passover. He was circumcised on the eighth day, which would be the last day of Passover/Feast of Unleavened Bread. Gavri-EI had said that John would "go forth" in the strength and power of Elijah [Luke 1: 17]. Jewish teaching was that Elijah would come again at Passover (this is still a tradition of Judaism today).



IV. The Birth of Yeshua/Luke 2


Nisan, when Yochanan was born, is the first month of the Hebrew year. As we have shown, Mara conceived six months after Elisheva conceived, which means Yeshua's birth would have to come six months after John's birth, during the seventh Hebrew month of Tishri. Since we know that John was born at Passover/Feast of Unleavened Bread, we learn the time of Yeshua's birth by counting six Hebrew months trom Passover. The Feast of Unleavened Bread begins on Nisan 15 and six months later Tabernacles begins on Tishri 15. Therefore, Yeshua was born on the first day of Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles).



The first day of Tabernacles is a Sabbath rest, so it fits that Yosef and Mara planned their journey to Beit-Lechem (Bethlehem) so they would finish their journey before the festival Sabbath. They found lodging just in time.



Concerning the Feast of Tabernacles, the L-RD commanded that Israel should observe it eight days. They were to build temporary dwellings called a sukkah and dwell in them [Leviticus 23:34-43]. These sukkahs were erected to house families with some bare comforts and food for the eight days. Food was placed in a stall or a crib for storage in the tabernacle. The King James Bible calls this food crib a manger. Yeshua was not born in a barn, but rather in a temporary tabernacle which had been built for the celebration. He was placed in a "manger", demonstrating in a type that He is the Bread of Life from heaven.



The eighth day, Yeshua was circumcised according to the scriptural command [Luke 2:21]. For a male, this is what accomplishes a full Hebrew birth. The Feast of Tabernacles is for exactly eight days. The first and last days are both holy Sabbaths. Yeshua was born on the first day, a holy Sabbath, and circumcised on the eighth day, a holy Sabbath. Evidently, G-d intended this entire Feast of Tabernacles to be set aside in order to accomplish and celebrate Yeshua's birth into the world.



Note that G-d provided two holy feasts that lasted eight days, Passover/Unleavened Bread and the Feast of

Tabernacles. John the Baptist, the forerunner of Messiah, was born and circumcised in the eight days of the first, then six month later Yeshua, the Messiah, was born and circumcised the eight days of the second. John came in the fIrst month of the year and Yeshua came in the seventh month. In ministry, John introduced the way through Messiah and then Yeshua perfected it, even as the first and seventh months signify.



V. Conclusion


In my opinion, this chronology provides us with the exact day of Yeshua's birth, Tishri 15, according to the Hebrew calendar. The Hebrew calendar is kept updated to this modem day, and every year the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) is absolutely set from Tishri 15 to Tishri 22. Because the Hebrew calendar is based on the course of the Moon (Lunar) and the modem calendar is based on the course of the Sun (Solar), the two move in relation to each other. This means the Feast of Tabernacles will always occur somewhere between mid-September and mid-October, but not on the exact same Gregorian dates every year. For instance, in 1995 the Feast of Tabernacles was October 9*October 17, but in 1996 the Feast of Tabernacles was September 28-0ctober 5. While this is initially confusing to the unlearned mind, a combination Gregorian/Hebraic calendar will easily clarify how the dates relate. Many local funeral homes provide free Hebrew calendars each year showing the modem dates for the holy Feast Days (ask for a Jewish calendar).



It may help you to understand the seeming movement of Yeshua's birthday by looking at your own birthday. Even though your birthday might keep the same number year after year, the day of the week it falls on changes. In like manner, Yeshua's birthday is on the same Hebraic calendar number each year, Tishri 15, but in relation to the Gregorian calendar it changes. However, you can plan for His birthday to always occur sometime between the latter part of September and the early part of October.



The Feast of Tabernacles is a most important commemoration. Zechariah 14:16,17 tells us that one day all nations will be required by law to honor this feast. For what greater reason, than it is the birthday of the King of Kings! Why should we delay?



Our hope and prayer is that the Ekklesia will return to the roots of her faith and learn to restore the fallen foundations. May we all work to overcome the influence of pagan customs in our celebrations and become separate from this world as a holy people before our holy G-d

[jayreynolds]

Pay attention, loser. The wavelength of “ordinary” weather radar is much too long to bounce off of matter the size of aerosol particulates. It is this same principle that allows broadcast AM radio waves to not be affected by the presence of buildings with in a city, while FM radio and television signals often suffer from “ghost” phenomena.

The Shadow knows where your credibility is headed... Do not forget to flush, Mr. Reynolds...

No, weather radar is sensitive enough to even show smoke from fires, rocket exhaust, pollen, and dust. If trails of such solid material as aluminum oxide were being made, and were clearly visible by the naked eye, they would appear on weather radar as lines emanating from a point source which is moving at the speed of the aircraft.

For example, it is the contention of our poster Deborah (aka.'footsoldier'), who has admitted she acted as editor of "Chemtrails Over America", that "RADAR REFLECTING BARIUM" IS BEING EMITTED FROM "CHEMTRAILS" FOR THE PURPOSE OF ]"DUCTING RADAR".

If such a thing were true, radars nationwide would become distorted and the plume would be CLEARLY VISIBLE ON WEATHER RADAR AS A MOVING LINE!


Are you calling Deborah of "Chemtrails Over America" a LIAR?????

Because it sound like you are...................

Or maybe your people didn't think their hoax through to it's logical conclusion, eh?????

gotcha

Still, you can make a try at 'recovery'.

Prove to me that weather radar can't detect smoke, dust, ect., I'd be interested in seeing you fail............

Because if you don't provide such proof, then it is clear you are just blowing smoke up somebody's ass, and have got caught doing it.........

stuuuuuupid chemmies!

[jayreynolds]

Gaiacomm, is it "really" "you" doing these postings or is there someone else also posting in your name? All you do is provide motivation for the scum-of-the-earth hangers-on of Raynolds to remain hovering around this thread.

Wayne, when you allow scum like "Gaiacomm"(aka Lance Hubrick) and Jim Phelps(aka insurrectionchemistry) become your spokesmen, and those of all the rest of the "chemtrails" cult, you get what you deserve.

I warned you. You chose to ignore the problem and hide like an ostrich.
It only made matters worse, and you've let them turn your debate into a forum where they can spread their racist hatred of jews into arianna's forum. You did it all to yourself by welcoming these people into your cult with open arms.

[gaiacomm]

Jay Reynolds was born in Dallas, Texas during the summer of 1955, and spent his childhood there. During that time, he developed a love of reading and observation. From an early age, he worked in the family business building municipal water systems and industrial buildings, and a working knowledge of many trades. His parents instilled in him a strong work ethic and moral values, and he became fluent in the Spanish language.


He attended the Texas Maritime Academy of Texas A&M University at Galveston, TX, graduating in 1977 with a Bachelor of Science degree in Marine Engineering. During that time, he was able to travel worldwide and qualified to become a Third Assistant Ship's Engineer, Steam/Diesel, Unlimited Horsepower.
His studies at the University included all engineering disciplines, with heavy emphasis on power generation and marine propulsion systems, and also oceanography, meteorology, and navigation.


After graduation, he received further training and became a Field Service Engineer for the General Electric Corporation, working on the Texas gulf coast providing technical direction in both construction and maintenance of large steam and gas turbines and shipboard engines. He also traveled widely in Central America. In 1979, seeking further opportunity, he moved to the island of St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands, and joined the Hess Oil Virgin Islands Corporation, where he was employed as a Gas Turbine Engineer and supervised maintenance of nine gas turbine power generators with waste heat recovery boilers at one of the world's largest oil refineries.


On St. Croix, and in subsequent travels around the Caribbean, he became an accomplished diver, spearfisherman, and sailor, and immersed himself in West Indian culture. Eventually, a home garden grew to become a full-time enterprise which was called "Blue Chips Farm", a farm which produced organically grown tropical fruits and vegetables. This operation, with the able assistance of his beautiful wife, Karen, was expanded when he developed a cannery operation to create gourmet quality preserves and sauces, which were marketed to the tourist trade. Blue Chips consistently won prizes at local fairs and their products were sold throughout the islands and by mail-order.

In 1989, Blue Chips was featured in Organic Gardening magazine for it's innovative system of alternating crop beds with permanent mulch generating strips thus supplying organic matter, mulch, reducing erosion, and slowing evapotranspiration. During off seasons, Jay continued his engineering work off the farm as Port Engineer for General Offshore Corporation, which performed quality control testing of U.S. Navy antisubmarine detection devices.


On September 19, 1989, St.Croix was devastated by Hurricane Hugo, a powerful category 5 hurricane that completely devastated the island. The damage was further accomplished by widespread looting in the aftermath. After total destruction of the farm and the island's economy, Jay was asked to return to the Hess Oil refinery during their rebuilding, this time working as Fired Boiler Supervising Engineer, where he continued for the next two years.


In 1992, the Reynolds repatriated to the United States mainland and purchased property to begin development of a self-sufficient homestead in the midwest. They have restored a 120 year old log cabin and built barns and outbuildings. Current efforts are nearing completion of a super-insulated Victorian style home built using native stone and the slip-form method. Soil is being built up using large amounts of organic matter and legume crops, and orchard trees have been planted. Their family now includes two children, some small animals, and a secure location to live, with timber, bottomland, a creek, and a free-flowing spring.


Upon returning from 12 years offshore, Jay was astonished at the changes he found in his nation. The loss of American rights, the submersion of sovereignty, lowering of educational achievement, and the decline of America's preeminence in manufacturing were especially troubling. Seeking answers and solutions, he allied with William Cooper, a great American who has been documenting these changes and their possible outcomes. Jay's research has helped in the production of a newspaper, VERITAS, the Harvest-Trust website, and Mr. Cooper's nightly broadcast "The Hour of the Time". His writing has been featured on several websites and newspapers, and he hopes to provide the best information possible, fully documented and verifiable by any reader. He is willing to listen to all viewpoints and strives to establish reality based on factual information and logical analysis. His work has been completely without remuneration and is for the benefit of all.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi Gaia,

Jay Reynolds, born in Dallas, Texas, the City of Hate. Sounds right doesn't it. Guess he is trying to exceed the corruption of LBJ. Nah--too small potatos this LBJ. JR is in league with meglomanic Bush and trying to keep big daddy out of prison.

Hey Gaia, ole Jay Reynolds is loosing it again. This guy is not an engineer, else he cheated on his PE license. Any real engineer knows when a particle's diameter is much much less than the wavelength of a RADAR wave, then there is just about zero reflection.

The Jay Reynolds guy is a blooming moron. All this stuff on Barium and particles is all non-sense. Barium techniques want the smallest particle sizes possible, so as to get to nano-size or colloid size. This helps the suspension times and maximizes the surface area for photo emission. The particles are so small the RADAR waves don't even notice them.

Any school child knows barium is one of the lowest photoionization metals and this is the effect cultivated in selecting barium, otherwise just any ole metal would work---if the criteria were particle size. That criteria would design for cheap metal.

The real ducting mechanims is this. Barium being able to photoionize causes the air to be conductive due to the free electrions. These free electrons change the charge distribution in the air (the potential gradients change) and this sets up dielectic discontinuities, on which the E-M Wave Ducting depends.

Real simple physics there, real dumb Jay Reynolds once again. Every Engineer type knows this.

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

Hi Gaia,

Jay Reynolds, born in Dallas, Texas, the City of Hate. Sounds right doesn't it. Guess he is trying to exceed the corruption of LBJ. Nah--too small potatos this LBJ. JR is in league with meglomanic Bush and trying to keep big daddy out of prison.

Hey Gaia, ole Jay Reynolds is loosing it again. This guy is not an engineer, else he cheated on his PE license. Any real engineer knows when a particle's diameter is much much less than the wavelength of a RADAR wave, then there is just about zero reflection.

The Jay Reynolds guy is a blooming moron. All this stuff on Barium and particles is all non-sense. Barium techniques want the smallest particle sizes possible, so as to get to nano-size or colloid size. This helps the suspension times and maximizes the surface area for photo emission. The particles are so small the RADAR waves don't even notice them.

Any school child knows barium is one of the lowest photoionization metals and this is the effect cultivated in selecting barium, otherwise just any ole metal would work---if the criteria were particle size. That criteria would design for cheap metal.

The real ducting mechanims is this. Barium being able to photoionize causes the air to be conductive due to the free electrions. These free electrons change the charge distribution in the air (the potential gradients change) and this sets up dielectic discontinuities, on which the E-M Wave Ducting depends.

Real simple physics there, real dumb Jay Reynolds once again. Every Engineer type knows this.

IMHO,
is


I couldn't agree with you more! Having JR and Company on Ignore is like a fresh spring breeze after a storm!

[halva]

Amen. We should have done it months ago.

[halva]

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3848887

'U.S. Must Join Climate Change Fight'

By Amanda Brown, PA Environment Correspondent


The planet cannot save itself from the “disastrous consequences” of climate change unless the United States becomes part of a worldwide effort to tackle global warming, a former Labour Cabinet Minister warned today.

Stephen Byers, co-chair of the International Taskforce on Climate Change, said that, alongside the fight against international terrorism, global warming is the world’s biggest collective challenge.

“There is no prospect of our planet saving itself from the disastrous consequences of climate change unless the United States becomes part of a worldwide effort to tackle global warming,” he said in a speech at the annual William Jefferson Clinton Presidential Foundation Forum in New York.

Mr Byers, who was speaking on the day climate experts and politicians were meeting in Buenos Aires to discuss post-Kyoto strategy, added: “It is clear that the Bush administration will not sign up to the Kyoto Protocol – that is the political reality of the situation.

“Adopting a high moral tone which simply condemns President Bush for his inaction may make his critics feel better but in practice it leads to an entrenchment of positions and does nothing to positively address the dangers we face.

“The challenge is to find ways which will enable President Bush to end US isolation over climate change.”

Mr Byers said pressure to act was growing domestically on the President and the insurance sector had seen claims arising from extreme weather conditions escalate dramatically, costing them tens of billions of dollars.

In addition, major companies like Boeing and DuPont are voicing concerns.

Mr Byers added: “(Prime Minister) Tony Blair has said he wants climate change to be a priority for his chairmanship of the G8 in 2005. The International Taskforce will feed into this process by publishing an interim report in January.

“George Bush and Tony Blair have led the campaign against international terrorism. They must now act together in a concerted partnership to tackle global warming.”

[halva]

Is the climate for action changing?

The threats posed by climate change are now readily accepted by governments and the scientific community. UK Prime Minister Tony Blair has warned that climate change could ‘radically alter human existence if left unchecked’, and has acknowledged that greenhouse gas emissions are causing global warming at a rate that ‘began as significant, has become alarming and is now simply unsustainable’. Meanwhile, with newspapers increasingly voicing fears that the world may be on the brink of runaway global warming, there is growing awareness that urgent action is needed.

While the Kyoto Protocol is at best an interim measure towards the halting of greenhouse gas emissions, Russia’s ratification of it is an important step in the right direction. It has already led to a dramatic rise in emissions trading in Europe, creating new opportunities for energy-efficient companies. The UK’s Chief Scientific Adviser, Sir David King, stated in his Greenpeace Business Lecture in October that ‘Kyoto is a good process…but will need to be ratcheted up so we can really get emissions under control’.

Tony Blair has stated that the climate will be one of his main priorities for the UK’s presidencies of the EU and G8 in 2005, when he will be in a unique position to achieve real progress. He must ensure that the international community begins the process of agreeing stringent emissions reduction targets for the second commitment period of the Kyoto Protocol, in order to keep overall global warming under 2 degrees Celsius, which means cutting greenhouse gas emissions by 80% by 2050.

While the Bush administration refuses to countenance controls on emissions, and US corporations such as ExxonMobil continue to emit carbon dioxide at a record rate, US cities and states are taking the initiative, creating their own climate action plans. Renewable energy expansion is a win-win job creation opportunity for every country. Our latest report shows that 76,000 jobs could be created if offshore wind power were developed to provide 30% of the UK’s electricity supply by 2020. But micro-renewables such as solar power on buildings need the support of strong building regulations if they are to become a basic requirement for new buildings, and emerging marine technologies such as wave power require more support.

In his response to Sir David King’s lecture, Greenpeace UK’s Executive Director Stephen Tindale called for radical action in the fields of transport, buildings and energy generation to halt climate change. 2005 will be a crucial year to learn whether the climate for action is really changing.

(from greenpeace.org.uk November 2004 newsletter)

[foot_soldier]

.....While the Bush administration refuses to countenance controls on emissions, and US corporations such as ExxonMobil continue to emit carbon dioxide at a record rate, US cities and states are taking the initiative, creating their own climate action plans.....
There will never be a "perfect time" for "perfectly unified" multilateral action on the regional climate change issue.

It's becoming more obvious by the day that at least some of the regions which are currently beginning to experience pollution-driven climatic instability and its related impacts are pulling together to initiate concrete action. The northeastern United States and the UK are two examples. It would be very instructive to watch their progress.

***
December 6, 2004
Climate: The tropospheric data do conform
http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.aspStoryId=CqBpNueidy2XPBwf0zs10CM9W B3nWAgvq

BOULDER, Colo., Dec. 6 (UPI) -- Global warming skeptics for some time have been using as a scientific linchpin data that suggest temperatures in the lower atmosphere are rising more slowly than those at the surface.

The argument is fairly technical and not the sort of thing that gets the average person as worked up as, say, the emerging steroid scandal in professional baseball.

For warming skeptics, however, the tropospheric data are the climate science World Series. They meet every challenge to the data with a furious counterassault, but the latest such challenge puts the skeptics down three games to one.

The fundamental, groundbreaking work on the subject was done last year by a team at the University of Alabama-Huntsville, led by climatologist John Christy and principal senior scientist Roy Spencer. The UAH team studied satellite data and found the troposphere, which extends up to an altitude of about 7.5 miles -- and where most of the planet's weather occurs -- was not warming as fast as the surface.

This finding conflicted with climate models, which predicted the two should be warming at more or less the same rate. The discrepancy dealt a potentially serious blow to the contention that Earth's climate is experiencing a warming that is greater than historic variation.

The satellite data set has been reviewed three times by researchers outside UAH, the first two of which failed to resolve the discrepancy. The latest, however, seems to show the troposphere is, in fact, warming at the rate predicted by the computer climate models.

In a paper to be published in the Dec. 15 issue of the Journal of Climate, Qiang Fu, a climate professor at the University of Washington in Seattle, has re-examined his own earlier work -- published last May in the British journal Nature -- that after subtracting a cooling signal from the stratosphere from the tropospheric data, the results closely coincide with the climate models.

"We used three different data profiles, three different data sets," Fu told UPI's Climate. "You would expect that the exact results would depend on the detailed structure, but it's not sensitive to the structure. The difference is very small. That's the beautiful part."

Fu used data from National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and from Britain's Hadley Center for Climate Prediction and Research. The results he obtained got from the different processes he used almost exactly the match the work he did in the May Nature piece, providing essentially an independent confirmation of that work.

"These results are consistent with the results that the Nature paper gets," Fu said. "It is an independent check of the problem because we used completely independent data sets. The independent observations agree with our conclusions, and that's quite powerful evidence."

Microwave sounding units on the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's polar-orbiting satellites measure heat radiation emitted at different frequencies, which can provide data for the different layers of the atmosphere. A well-known greenhouse effect is the cooling of the stratosphere -- the upper portion of the atmosphere -- and some of the signal from this cooling contaminates the temperature record the NOAA satellites compile from the troposphere.

Fu and his colleagues, in their new round of work, measured stratospheric cooling directly, then subtracted the data from the tropospheric record to arrive at their conclusions..... (continued)

[jayreynolds]

Deborah,
The chinese study only shows that if you tweak an imperfect model of our intricate atmosphere enough, you can get it to say whatever you want. Period.
Jay

[foot_soldier]

March 30, 2001
Ozone-Eating Clouds Form in Cold Polar Rings
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/planetearth/ozone_eating_clouds_010330.html

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Ozone-eating clouds that erode Earth's protection against ultraviolet radiation are born in thin rings of supercold air over the North and South Poles, scientists reported on Thursday.

The Sun's ultraviolet rays could cause skin cancer in humans and biological damage to other living things if Earth were not shielded by the ozone layer high in the atmosphere. But polar stratospheric clouds made of nitric acid and water deplete this protective layer.

Scientists have known about the clouds for years, but U.S. researchers have just discovered the bands of frigid air in the stratosphere that help to create them, according to an article in the current edition of the journal Science.

And as Earth's surface gets warmer, due to heat trapped by so-called greenhouse gases, the stratosphere gets colder, making it an even better place to create the ozone-depleting clouds, NASA researcher Azadeh Tabazadeh said.

The more these high polar clouds proliferate, the slower Earth's recovery from ozone depletion, Tabazadeh said in a telephone interview from the NASA's Ames Research Center in California.

The polar stratospheric clouds do their work by sucking nitrogen out of the cold air. Because they are made up of large particles, each the size of a bit of road dust, the clouds are heavy and pull out the nitrogen as they fall toward Earth, Tabazadeh said.

Nitrogen is important because it reacts with the chlorine in human-made chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). Now banned under international agreements, CFCs have long been identified as a prime cause of ozone depletion.

The polar stratospheric clouds pack a double punch, Tabazadeh said: They take away nitrogen, which can mitigate the effects of ozone depletion, and they also activate chlorine, which spurs ozone depletion.

Still, if Earth's climate stayed constant, the ozone layer should start recovering because CFCs are being limited. But Earth's surface climate is warming, which means the stratosphere is cooling.

"The surface warming causes a cooling in the stratosphere and the cooling promotes more ozone depletion," Tabazadeh said. "Global warming is actually affecting the ozone depletion."
.

[whitemajikman]

VIEWPOINT: GLOBAL WARMING NATURAL, MAY END WITHIN 20 YEARS
COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Global warming is a natural geological process that could begin to reverse itself within 10 to 20 years, predicts an Ohio State University researcher.




Robert Essenhigh
The researcher suggests that atmospheric carbon dioxide -- often thought of as a key "greenhouse gas" -- is not the cause of global warming. The opposite is most likely to be true, according to Robert Essenhigh, E.G. Bailey Professor of Energy Conservation in Ohio State's Department of Mechanical Engineering. It is the rising global temperatures that are naturally increasing the levels of carbon dioxide, not the other way around, he says.

Essenhigh explains his position in a "viewpoint" article in the current issue of the journal Chemical Innovation, published by the American Chemical Society.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"According to Essenhigh's estimations, Earth may reach a peak in the current temperature profile within the next 10 to 20 years, and then it could begin to cool into a new ice age."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many people blame global warming on carbon dioxide sent into the atmosphere from burning fossil fuels in man-made devices such as automobiles and power plants. Essenhigh believes these people fail to account for the much greater amount of carbon dioxide that enters -- and leaves -- the atmosphere as part of the natural cycle of water exchange from, and back into, the sea and vegetation.

"Many scientists who have tried to mathematically determine the relationship between carbon dioxide and global temperature would appear to have vastly underestimated the significance of water in the atmosphere as a radiation-absorbing gas," Essenhigh argues. "If you ignore the water, you're going to get the wrong answer."

How could so many scientists miss out on this critical bit of information, as Essenhigh believes? He said a National Academy of Sciences report on carbon dioxide levels that was published in 1977 omitted information about water as a gas and identified it only as vapor, which means condensed water or cloud, which is at a much lower concentration in the atmosphere; and most subsequent investigations into this area evidently have built upon the pattern of that report.

For his hypothesis, Essenhigh examined data from various other sources, including measurements of ocean evaporation rates, man-made sources of carbon dioxide, and global temperature data for the last one million years.

He cites a 1995 report from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a panel formed by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environment Programme in 1988 to assess the risk of human-induced climate change. In the report, the IPCC wrote that some 90 billion tons of carbon as carbon dioxide annually circulate between the earth's ocean and the atmosphere, and another 60 billion tons exchange between the vegetation and the atmosphere.

Compared to man-made sources' emission of about 5 to 6 billion tons per year, the natural sources would then account for more than 95 percent of all atmospheric carbon dioxide, Essenhigh said.

"At 6 billion tons, humans are then responsible for a comparatively small amount - less than 5 percent - of atmospheric carbon dioxide," he said. "And if nature is the source of the rest of the carbon dioxide, then it is difficult to see that man-made carbon dioxide can be driving the rising temperatures. In fact, I don't believe it does."

Some scientists believe that the human contribution to carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, however small, is of a critical amount that could nonetheless upset Earth's environmental balance. But Essenhigh feels that, mathematically, that hypothesis hasn't been adequately substantiated.

Here's how Essenhigh sees the global temperature system working: As temperatures rise, the carbon dioxide equilibrium in the water changes, and this releases more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. According to this scenario, atmospheric carbon dioxide is then an indicator of rising temperatures -- not the driving force behind it.

Essenhigh attributes the current reported rise in global temperatures to a natural cycle of warming and cooling.

He examined data that Cambridge University geologists Nicholas Shackleton and Neil Opdyke reported in the journal Quaternary Research in 1973, which found that global temperatures have been oscillating steadily, with an average rising gradually, over the last one million years -- long before human industry began to release carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Opdyke is now at the University of Florida.

According to Shackleton and Opdyke's data, average global temperatures have risen less than one degree in the last million years, though the amplitude of the periodic oscillation has now risen in that time from about 5 degrees to about 10 degrees, with a period of about 100,000 years.

"Today, we are simply near a peak in the current cycle that started about 25,000 years ago," Essenhigh explained.

As to why highs and lows follow a 100,000 year cycle, the explanation Essenhigh uses is that the Arctic Ocean acts as a giant temperature regulator, an idea known as the "Arctic Ocean Model." This model first appeared over 30 years ago and is well presented in the 1974 book Weather Machine: How our weather works and why it is changing, by Nigel Calder, a former editor of New Scientist magazine.

According to this model, when the Arctic Ocean is frozen over, as it is today, Essenhigh said, it prevents evaporation of water that would otherwise escape to the atmosphere and then return as snow. When there is less snow to replenish the Arctic ice cap, the cap may start to shrink. That could be the cause behind the retreat of the Arctic ice cap that scientists are documenting today, Essenhigh said.

As the ice cap melts, the earth warms, until the Arctic Ocean opens again. Once enough water is available by evaporation from the ocean into the atmosphere, snows can begin to replenish the ice cap. At that point, the Arctic ice begins to expand, the global temperature can then start to reverse, and the earth can start re-entry to a new ice age.

According to Essenhigh's estimations, Earth may reach a peak in the current temperature profile within the next 10 to 20 years, and then it could begin to cool into a new ice age.

Essenhigh knows that his scientific opinion is a minority one. As far as he knows, he's the only person who's linked global warming and carbon dioxide in this particular way. But he maintains his evaluations represent an improvement on those of the majority opinion, because they are logically rigorous and includes water vapor as a far more significant factor than in other studies.

"If there are flaws in these propositions, I'm listening," he wrote in his Chemical Innovation paper. "But if there are objections, let's have them with the numbers."


#

Contact: Robert Essenhigh, (614) 292-0403; Essenhigh.1@osu.edu
Written by Pam Frost Gorder, (614) 292-9475; Gorder.1@osu.edu


WMM

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Fibers rain down on Texas, see: http://rense.com/general60/fibers.htm

Reynolds is now complaigning about his "period." These fibers might make good stay-free maxi-pads for JR? Yeah JR, these are all natural, so get some for wiffy too.

IMHO,
is

[whitemajikman]

Natural Global Warming

by Dennis T. Avery

Earlier this summer, the Bush White House just directed a major rewrite of an Environmental Protection Agency report on global warming to emphasize the uncertainties surrounding climate change—thereby incurring both political and activist wrath. Why?

Because of new science that has arrived during Bush's term in office.

For a decade, the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has pushed the theory of fierce man-made global warming, supposedly caused by burning fossil fuels. It would theoretically drive temperatures up as much as 10 degrees Fahrenheit. The IPCC wants American to join the Kyoto Protocol, quickly doubling U.S. energy prices, without making much impact on the warming. (Kyoto would be a 'down payment' on much more severe energy cutbacks.)


However, most of the earth's recent warming occurred before 1940, and thus before much greenhouse gas was released by human factories and cars. The headlines scream that recent temperatures are "the highest ever recorded"—but the records go back only to 1860, during the world's recovery from the Little Ice Age.


During Bush's term, scientists delving into the earth's history have found quite a different global warming: an ancient, natural, 1500-year warming-cooling cycle driven by a known cycle in the magnetic activity of the sun.


Written history tells us the Medieval Warming, a mild-weather period from the 11th to 13th centuries, with temperatures 1 to 3 degrees F. warmer than today. It was followed by the Little Ice Age, with temperatures 2 to 4 degrees F. lower, harsh storms, encroaching glaciers, and crop-failure famines. History also records an earlier Roman warming, it too followed by a mini-ice age.

In 2001, the journal Science published a careful, long-term analysis of iceberg debris on the floor of the North Atlantic—bits of rock carved from Canada by glaciers and floated out to sea. A Team led by Dr. Gerard Bond of New York's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory found nine global warmings and nine global coolings in the last 12,000 years.


Matching ice debris with solar activity (through tree rings and beryllium-10 in a Greenland ice core) showed the icy periods correlate strongly with low solar activity. The coldest point in the Little Ice Age occurred at the only time in 400 years when there were no sunspots at all. (Our sunspot observations go back to 1600.)

Climate researcher John Christy points out that official thermometers show a temperature rise of 0.7 degrees F. for the last 24 years, far less than the greenhouse theory projected. However, the temperature readings from satellites and high-altitude balloons show less than half that warming (0.3 degrees F). These readings represent the bulk of the atmosphere, up where the greenhouse theory says warming is supposed to occur first!

Most official ground-level thermometers are in urban heat islands, surrounded by increasing amounts of masonry and blacktop. A retired California climatologist, James Goodrich, divided California's weather stations into three groups, and plotted their temperature records by population density. In the last 100 years, the California counties with more than 100,000 to one million people had a slightly rising trend, and the low-population counties had no temperature rise at all.

Believers in fierce warming warn that the polar ice could melt and raise sea levels by a horrifying 15 to 25 feet. However, warming would also add to the ice caps (increased rain and snow from more evaporation of the oceans). Dr. Howard Conway of the University of Washington reported in Science (Oct. 10, 1999) that the Antarctic ice has been melting at about its present rate since the end of the Great Ice Age 15,000 years ago. We can expect the sea level to keep on rising about six inches per century. Until the next Ice Age.

The fierce global warming scenario is now backed by little except computer models and activist press releases. Plus, a European desire for the U.S. to penalize its economy by emulating Europe's heavy taxes on fuel. (A barrel of oil that net Kuwait $30 may net the British government $150 in taxes, "justified" by the global warming theory.)

President Bush's task is a delicate minuet to avoid doubling U.S. energy prices and throwing the American economy into a Depression; while not alarming a mass of voters who haven't read the earth's own temperature record, and fear their car exhausts are burning up the planet.

Based on new and solid science, no fuel rationing can stop the mild natural warming likely over the next 500 years.

WMM

[whitemajikman]

News Service September 15, 2003




September 4, 2003

Natural Global Warming

by Dennis T. Avery

Earlier this summer, the Bush White House just directed a major rewrite of an Environmental Protection Agency report on global warming to emphasize the uncertainties surrounding climate change—thereby incurring both political and activist wrath. Why?

Because of new science that has arrived during Bush's term in office.

For a decade, the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has pushed the theory of fierce man-made global warming, supposedly caused by burning fossil fuels. It would theoretically drive temperatures up as much as 10 degrees Fahrenheit. The IPCC wants American to join the Kyoto Protocol, quickly doubling U.S. energy prices, without making much impact on the warming. (Kyoto would be a 'down payment' on much more severe energy cutbacks.)


However, most of the earth's recent warming occurred before 1940, and thus before much greenhouse gas was released by human factories and cars. The headlines scream that recent temperatures are "the highest ever recorded"—but the records go back only to 1860, during the world's recovery from the Little Ice Age.


During Bush's term, scientists delving into the earth's history have found quite a different global warming: an ancient, natural, 1500-year warming-cooling cycle driven by a known cycle in the magnetic activity of the sun.


Written history tells us the Medieval Warming, a mild-weather period from the 11th to 13th centuries, with temperatures 1 to 3 degrees F. warmer than today. It was followed by the Little Ice Age, with temperatures 2 to 4 degrees F. lower, harsh storms, encroaching glaciers, and crop-failure famines. History also records an earlier Roman warming, it too followed by a mini-ice age.

In 2001, the journal Science published a careful, long-term analysis of iceberg debris on the floor of the North Atlantic—bits of rock carved from Canada by glaciers and floated out to sea. A Team led by Dr. Gerard Bond of New York's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory found nine global warmings and nine global coolings in the last 12,000 years.


Matching ice debris with solar activity (through tree rings and beryllium-10 in a Greenland ice core) showed the icy periods correlate strongly with low solar activity. The coldest point in the Little Ice Age occurred at the only time in 400 years when there were no sunspots at all. (Our sunspot observations go back to 1600.)

Climate researcher John Christy points out that official thermometers show a temperature rise of 0.7 degrees F. for the last 24 years, far less than the greenhouse theory projected. However, the temperature readings from satellites and high-altitude balloons show less than half that warming (0.3 degrees F). These readings represent the bulk of the atmosphere, up where the greenhouse theory says warming is supposed to occur first!

Most official ground-level thermometers are in urban heat islands, surrounded by increasing amounts of masonry and blacktop. A retired California climatologist, James Goodrich, divided California's weather stations into three groups, and plotted their temperature records by population density. In the last 100 years, the California counties with more than 100,000 to one million people had a slightly rising trend, and the low-population counties had no temperature rise at all.

Believers in fierce warming warn that the polar ice could melt and raise sea levels by a horrifying 15 to 25 feet. However, warming would also add to the ice caps (increased rain and snow from more evaporation of the oceans). Dr. Howard Conway of the University of Washington reported in Science (Oct. 10, 1999) that the Antarctic ice has been melting at about its present rate since the end of the Great Ice Age 15,000 years ago. We can expect the sea level to keep on rising about six inches per century. Until the next Ice Age.

The fierce global warming scenario is now backed by little except computer models and activist press releases. Plus, a European desire for the U.S. to penalize its economy by emulating Europe's heavy taxes on fuel. (A barrel of oil that net Kuwait $30 may net the British government $150 in taxes, "justified" by the global warming theory.)

President Bush's task is a delicate minuet to avoid doubling U.S. energy prices and throwing the American economy into a Depression; while not alarming a mass of voters who haven't read the earth's own temperature record, and fear their car exhausts are burning up the planet.

Based on new and solid science, no fuel rationing can stop the mild natural warming likely over the next 500 years.

[whitemajikman]

Based on new and solid science, no fuel rationing can stop the mild natural warming likely over the next 500 years.


Do you all Realize the relevance of this statement.......?

And the Solid Science behind it, that back's it up.......?

Now, Instead of always running away from Questions , Honestly answer these two questions.

WMM

[whitemajikman]

Global Warming: Enjoy it While You Can


by John Carlisle



Policymakers have been arguing for nearly a decade over what to do about global warming. Noticeably missing from this debate has been any mention of the fact that natural fluctuations in the Earth's temperature, not Man, is the likely explanation for any recent warming.

Proponents of the global warming theory repeatedly cite a 1.5° F temperature increase over the last 150 years as evidence that man-made CO2 is dangerously heating up the planet and will cause huge flooding, severe storms, disease and a mass exodus of environmental refugees. Based on this, the Clinton Administration and its environmental allies want Congress to ratify a treaty that will hike consumer prices 40 percent and cost the American economy $3.3 trillion over 20 years. But the apocalyptic predictions on which they justify these drastic steps are totally unsubstantiated and ignore some fundamental truths about the Earth's climatic behavior.

The fact is, the planet's temperature is constantly rising and falling. To put the current warming trend in perspective, it's important to understand the Earth's geological behavior.

Over the last 700,000 years, the climate has operated on a relatively predictable schedule of 100,000-year glaciation cycles. Each glaciation cycle is typically characterized by 90,000 years of cooling, an ice age, followed by an abrupt warming period, called an interglacial, which lasts 10,000-12,000 years. The last ice age reached its coolest point 18,000 to 20,000 years ago when the average temperature was 9-12.6° F cooler than present. Earth is currently in a warm interglacial called the Holocene that began 10,700 years ago.

Although precise temperature readings over the entire period of geologic history are not available, enough is known to establish climatic trends. During the Holocene, there have been about seven major warming and cooling trends, some lasting as long as 3000 years, others as short as 650. Most interesting of all, however, is that the temperature variation in many of these periods averaged as much as 1.8° F, .3° F more than the temperature increase of the last 150 years. Furthermore, of the six major temperature variations occurring prior to the current era, three produced temperatures warmer than the present average temperature of 59° F while three produced cooler temperatures.

For example, when the Holocene began as the Earth was coming out of the last Ice Age around 8700 B.C., the average global temperature was about 6° F cooler than it is today. By 7500 B.C., the climate had warmed to 60° F, 1° F warmer than the current average temperature. However, the temperature fell again by nearly 2° F over the next 1,000 years, settling at an average of 1° F cooler than the current climate.

Between 6500 and 3500 B.C., the temperature increased from 58° F to 62° F. This is the warmest the Earth has been during the Holocene, which is why scientists refer to the period as the Holocene Maximum. Since the temperature of the Holocene Maximum is close to what global warming models project for the Earth by 2100, how Mankind faired during the era is instructive. The most striking fact is that it was during this period that the Agricultural Revolution began in the Middle East, laying the foundation for civilization. Yet, Greenhouse theory proponents claim the planet will experience severe environmental distress if the climate is that warm again.

Since the Holocene Maximum, the planet has continued to experience temperature fluctuations. In 900 A.D. the planet's temperature roughly approximated today's temperature. Then, between 900 and 1100 the climate dramatically warmed. Known as the Medieval Warm Period, the temperature rose by more than 1° F to an average of 60° or 61° F, as much as 2° F warmer than today. Again, the temperature during this period is similar to Greenhouse predictions for 2100, a prospect global warming theory proponents insist should be viewed with alarm. But judging by how Europe prospered during this era, there is little to be alarmed about. The warming that occurred between 1000 and 1350 caused the ice in the North Atlantic to retreat and permitted Norsemen to colonize Iceland and Greenland. Back then, Greenland was actually green. Europe emerged from the Dark Ages in a period that was characterized by bountiful harvests and great economic prosperity. So mild was the climate that wine grapes were grown in England and Nova Scotia.

The major climate change that followed the Medieval Warm Period is especially critical as it bears directly on how to assess our current warming period. Between 1200 and 1450, the temperature plunged to 58° F. After briefly warming, the climate continued to dramatically get colder after 1500. By 1650, the temperature hit a low of 57° F. This is regarded as the coldest point in the 10,000-year Holocene geological epoch. That is why the era between 1650 and 1850 is known as the Little Ice Age. It was during this time that mountain glaciers advanced in Switzerland and Scandinavia, forcing the abandonment of farms and villages. Rivers in London, St. Petersburg and Moscow froze over so thoroughly that people held winter fairs on the ice. There were serious crop failures, famines and disease due to the cooler climate. In America, New England had no summer in 1816. It wasn't until 1860 that the temperature sufficiently warmed to cause the glaciers to retreat.

The significance of the Little Ice Age cannot be overestimated. The 1.5° F temperature increase over the last 150 years, so often cited as evidence of man-made warming, most likely represents a return to normal temperatures following a 400-year period of unusually cold weather. Even the United Nation's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the chief proponent of the Kyoto Protocol global warming treaty signed in December 1997, concludes that: "The Little Ice Age came to an end only in the nineteenth century. Thus, some of the global warming since 1850 could be a recovery from the Little Ice Age rather than a direct result of human activities."

Leading climate scientist Dr. Hugh Ellsaesser of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory says we may be in for an additional 1.8° F of warming over the next few centuries, regardless of Man's activities. The result would be warmer nighttime and winter temperatures, fewer frosts and longer growing seasons. Since CO2 stimulates plant growth and lessens the need for water, we could also expect more bountiful harvests over the next couple of centuries. This is certainly not bad news to the developing nations of the world struggling to feed their populations.

Thus, far from being a self-induced disaster, global warming is the result of natural changes in the Earth's climate that promises to yield humanity positive benefits. In the geological scheme of things, the warming is not even that dramatic compared to the more pronounced warming trends that occurred during the Agricultural Revolution and the early Middle Ages. Moreover, there is strong evidence that this long-needed warming is moderating. All things considered, global warming should be viewed for what it is: A gift from the often fickle force of Nature. Enjoy it while you can.



WMM

[whitemajikman]

Some of the Many Experts Who Contest Kyoto's Scientific Foundation




Expert Position/Organization E-mail Phone Web Expertise - Myth#
(see Myth # below)

Dr. Richard S. Lindzen Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology, Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Cambridge, MA 02139 rlindzen@MIT.EDU 617-253-2432 or 617-332-4342 www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen.htm 1, 1a, 1b, 3


Dr. Tim Patterson Professor - Dept of Earth Sciences (Paleoclimatology) - Carleton University, Ottawa tpatters@ccs.carleton.ca 613-520-2600
ext. 4425 www.carleton.ca/~tpatters/index_flash.html and www.carleton.ca/Museum/sciencealberta/patterson.wav. 1, 1c, 3, 4, 6

Dr. Tim Ball Environmental Consultant - 32 years climatology Professor - University of Winnipeg timothyball@shaw.ca 250-380-7784 http://www.hamiltonspectator.com 1, 1a, 1b, 3, 4, 5, 6

Dr. Paul Copper, FRSC Professor of Geology, Department of Earth Sciences, Laurentian University, Sudbury, Canada pcopper@nickel.laurentian.ca and pcopper@laurentian.ca 705-675-1151 ext. 2267 http://laurentian.ca/geology/FACULTY/COPPER.HTML 1, 1c, 3

Dr. James O'Brien Robert 0. Lawton Distinguished Professor of Meteorology and Oceanography; Director, Center for Ocean-Atmospheric Prediction Studies, Florida State
University, Tallahassee, FL jim.obrien@coaps.fsu.edu 850-644-4581 http://www.coaps.fsu.edu/bios/obrien.html 1, 5, 6

Dr. Madhav Khandekar Environmental Consultant - 25 years with Environment Canada in Meteorology mkhandekar@rogers.com 905-940-0105 http://www.nationalpost.com 1, 1a, 3, 4, 5
William Kininmonth Managing Director, Australasian Climate Research, Kew, Australia w.kininmonth@bigpond.com (03) 9853 9395; Mob. 0418 376 236 http://www.lavoisier.com.au/papers/articles/climatechange.pdf 1, 1b, 5

Dr. Ian Clark Professor, Isotope Hydrogeology and Paleoclimatology, Department of Earth Sciences (arctic specialist), University of Ottawa idclark@uottawa.ca 613-562-5838 www.science.uottawa.ca/est/eng/prof/clark/Clark.html 1, 6, 7

Dr. Tad Murty Climate researcher. Previously Senior Research Scientist for Fisheries and Oceans (DFO); conducted official DFO climate change/sea level review for the Pacific and Arctic coasts of Canada; Former Director of the National Tidal Facility of Australia; Current editor - "Natural Hazards" tmurty@baird.com 613-731-8900(W); 613-739-5445 (H) http://www.baird.com; http://www.kluweronline.com/issn/0921-030x 1, 2, 6, 7

Dr. Kenneth Green Director, Centre for Studies in Risk, Regulation, and Environment, The Fraser Institute, Vancouver, B.C. keng@fraserinstitute.ca 604-688-0221 http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/environment/index.asp?snav=en 1, 1a, 1b, 3, 4, 8, 9

Dr. Fred Michel Professor - Dept of Earth Sciences (Permafrost specialty) Carleton University, Ottawa fmichel@ccs.carleton.ca (613) 520 2600 ext. 4428 www.earthsci.carleton.ca/Personnel/Michel.html 1c, 6, 7

Dr. Sallie Baliunas Astrophysicist - Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics - specialist in understanding the Sun/climate connection. baliunas@cfa.harvard.edu 617-495-7415 www.hillsdale.edu/imprimis/2002/march/default.htm 1, 3

Dr. Willie Soon Astrophysicist - Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics - specialist in understanding the Sun/climate connection. wsoon@cfa.harvard.edu 617-495-7488 www.environment.harvard.edu/henvdir/SOON_WILLIE_H.html - see also www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm 1, 3

Dr. Chris Essex Professor of Applied Mathematics, University of Western Ontario - focuses on underlying physics/math to complex climate systems. essex@uwo.ca www.takenbystorm.info 1,1a, 1b, 2

Dr. Ian Plimer Professor and Chair, Department of Geology, The University of Melbourne, Australia i.plimer@earthsci.unimelb.edu.au 0061.421.089651 (mobile phone, +11 hours GMT in N. Hemisphere winter, +9 hrs GMT in N. Hemisphere summer) http://www.austehc.unimelb.edu.au/umfs/biogs/UMFS070b.htm and http://www.unimelb.edu.au/ExtRels/Media/02media/02aug13.html 1, 1a, 1c, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7

Dr. Fred Singer President of The Science & Environmental Policy Project, Distinguished Research Professor at George Mason University, Professor Emeritus of environmental science at University of Virginia. singer@sepp.org 703-920-2744 www.sepp.org 1, 1b, 2, 3, 4, 6

Dr. Pat Michaels Research Professor - Dept of Environmental Sciences - University of Virginia pjm8x@virginia.edu 434-924-0549 www.evsc.virginia.edu/faculty/people/michaels.shtml 1, 1a, 1b, 2, 3

Dr. Roger Peilke Professor and Colorado State Climatologist; Current President of the American Association of State Climatologists dallas@atmos.colostate.edu 970-491-8293 blue.atmos.colostate.edu 1, 1a, 1b, 2

Dr. Gary D. Sharp Scientific Director, Center for Climate/Ocean Resources Study, Salinas, California. gsharp@montereybay.com 831-449-9212 (9-5 PST only) http://sharpgary.org and http://sharpgary.org/FutureFish.zip 1, 1a, 1b, 2

Professor Dr. Zbigniew Jaworowski Professor at the Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection (CLOR), Warsaw, Poland; Chairman of the scientific council of CLOR jaworo@clor.waw.pl (+48-22) 754-4434 1, 2, 5

Dr. William M. Gray Professor of Atmospheric Science, Colorado State University barb@tutt.atmos.colostate.edu 970-491-8681 www.atmos.colostate.edu/dept/facmembers/gray.html 1, 1b, 1c, 2, 3

Dr. Fred Seitz Past President, U.S. National Academy of Sciences, President Emeritus, Rockefeller University, New York, NY seitz@mail.rockefeller.edu; seitz@rockvax.rockefeller.edu 212-327-8423 www.rockefeller.edu/research/eme.htm andwww.oism.org/pproject/ 1, 1b, 1c, 2, 3

George Taylor Oregon State Meteorologist, Oregon Climate Service, Oregon State University and the Past President of the Association of State Meteorologists. oregon@ats.orst.edu 541-737-5705 www.ocs.orst.edu/ and especially www.sitewave.net/news/s49p628.htm 1b, 1c, 2, 4, 5

Dr. Sonja Boehmer-Christiansen Reader, Department of Geography, University of Hull, Hull HU6 7RX, UK
Editor, Energy & Environment sonja.b-c@hull.ac.uk (0)1482 465349/6341/5385 http://www.hull.ac.uk/geog/html/boehmer.html 1, 1a, 1b, 2

Dipl.-Ing. Peter Dietze energy and climate consultant, officialscientific IPCC TAR ReviewerFrankenstr. 9 D-91094 Langensendelbach, Germany p_dietze@t-online.de Phone & Fax
+49/9133-5371 www.john-daly.com/forcing/moderr.htm 1, 1a, 1b, 2

Dr. Sherwood Idso President of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change info@CO2science.org 480-966-3719 www.CO2science.com/center.htm 1b, 3, 4

Dr. David Wojick, P.E. an independent journalist and policy analyst, specializing in Kyoto issues - science, technology, politics and policy dwojick@direcway.com 540-858-3503 www.bydesign.com/powervision/resume.html 1, 1a, 1b, 4

Dr. Art Robinson of OISM Founder - Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine - focus on climate change and CO2 art@oism.org 541-592-4142 www.oism.org/pproject/ 1b, 2, 3, 4

Dr. Robert Balling Director - Office of Climatology, Arizona State University robert.balling@asu.edu 480-965-6265 geography.asu.edu/balling/ 1, 1a, 1b, 2, 3, 5

Dr. Chris de Freitas Professor, School of Geography and Environmental Science, University of Auckland, New Zealand c.defreitas@auckland.ac.nz or cdef004@postbox.auckland.ac.nz http://www.geog.auckland.ac.nz 1, 1a, 1b, 2

Dr. Petr Chylek Professor of Physics and Atmospheric Science - Dalhousie University chylek@lanl.gov 902-494-2337 www.physics.dal.ca/people/PChylek/PChylek.html 1, 1a, 3, 7

Hans Erren, MSc. Geophysical consultant, The Hague, The Netherlands. - focusses on data processing, climate sensitivity and the history of climate science. erren21@zonnet.nl http://members.lycos.nl/ErrenWijlens/cooling.html 1, 2, 3, 6

Dr. Ross McKitrick Professor of environmental economics at the University of Guelph - also expert in the science rmckitri@uoguelph.ca 519-824-4120 ext 2532 www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/cc.html 1, 1b

Cdr. M.R. (Dick) Morgan, PhD, RCN (Retd.) Climate Consultant to major government organizations - Dartmouth, Nova Scotia mrmorgan@ns.sympatico.ca 902-435-4234 1, 1a, 1b, 2, 6

Cont.

[whitemajikman]

Dr. Hugh W. Ellsaesser Atmospheric Consultant - previously with the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, CA hughel@attbi.com 510-447-3834 1, 1a, 1b, 2, 3

Dr. Asmunn Moene Former head of the National ForecastingCenter,Meteorological Institute,Oslo,Norway asmoene@c2i.net 472-252-3966 http://home.c2i.net/asmoene unspecified

Prof. Dr. Kirill Ya. Kondratyev Academician, Counsellor RAS, Research Centre for Ecological Safety, Russian Academy of Sciences and Nansen International Environmental and Remote Sensing Centre, St.-Petersburg, RUSSIA kondratyev@KK10221.spb.edu +7 (812) 230-78-37 (office)+7 (812) 322-29-67 (home) 1, 1a, 1b, 1c, 2

Dr. Craig D. Idso Chairman, Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change; P.O. Box 25697Tempe, AZ 85285-5697 cidso@co2science.org 480-664-4921 www.co2science.org 1b, 3, 4

David Nowell, M.Sc. (Meteorology) Fellow of the Royal Meteorological Society, Canadian member and Past Chairman of the NATO Meteorological Group, Ottawa david.nowell@sympatico.ca 613-820-8676 1, 1a, 1b, 1c, 2

Paavo Siitam Agronomist (soil chemistry, fertility and microbiology) http://plantseatco2.blogspot.com/ 1, 1b, 3, 4

Dr. Paal Brekke Paal is a solar physicist at the European Space Agency, Norway - a vocal skeptic. pbrekke@esa.nascom.nasa.gov http://solarsystem.estec.esa.nl 1, 3

Dr. Lee C. Gerhard Principal Geologist, Kansas Geological Survey; Adjunct Professor, Colorado School of Mines; Noted author and geological expert on climate history. leeg@sunflower.com 785-550-3988;
785-749-7440 1, 1c, 2, 3, 4

Dr. Roger Pocklington (deceased 2004) Researcher - Bedford Institute of Oceanography http://www.envirotruth.org/globalWarming_MarineMatters.cfm 1, 1a, 1b, 2, 6

Dr. Theodor Landscheidt (deceased 2004) Solar/climate researcher Schroeter Institute for Research in Cycles of Solar Activity Klammerfelsweg 5, 93449 Waldmuenchen, Germany http://www.john-daly.com/solar/solar.htm 1, 1b, 1c, 2, 3, 7

The following experts were not contactable at the time of assembly of this listing
Dr. Philip Stott Emeritus Professor of Biogeography - University of London (England) www.probiotech.fsnet.co.uk 1, 4

Dr. Jan Veizer NSERC/Noranda/CIAR Industrial Chair in Earth System Isotope and Environmental Geochemistry and Professor - Department of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa veizer@science.uottawa.ca 613-562-5800 ext.6461 www.science.uottawa.ca/est/eng/Prof/veizer/default.html 1, 1c, 3



There are, of course, many other scientists who have serious problems with the science 'backing' Kyoto as well:
See the Heidelberg Appeal at http://www.sepp.org/heidelberg_appeal.html where 3,000 scientists, including 72 Nobel Prize winners, from 106 countries, have now signed the appeal. They warn of the "irrational ideology" driving global-warming science.
See also the anti-Kyoto Leipzig Declaration (at http://www.sepp.org/leipzig.html, which has attracted the signatures of 1,500 scientists (see http://www.sepp.org/LDsigs.html).
Finally Dr. Robinson's OISM petition whose 17,000 signatories have endorsed the statement, "there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate." - see http://www.oism.org/oism/s32p31.htm

Some of the Experts Who Contest Alternative Energy "Solutions" Proposed by Environmental Extremists

Expert Position/Organization E-mail Phone Web Expertise - Myth#

(see Myth # below)

Dr. Howard C. Hayden Emeritus Professor of Physics - University of Connecticut; now head
of "The Energy Advocate" corkhayden@attbi.com (719) 547-7805
www.energyadvocate.com/index.htm 1, 1b, 4, 8, 9

Dr. J. Terry Rogers Emeritus Professor of Mechanical Engineering - Carleton U. tr626262@sympatico.ca 613-729-8330 www.mae.carleton.ca/maehtmls/rogers.html 8, 9

Dr. David Wojick, P.E. an independent journalist and policy analyst, specializing in Kyoto issues - science, technology, politics and policy dwojick@direcway.com 540-858-3503 www.bydesign.com/powervision/resume.html 1, 1a, 1b, 4

Dr. Herb I. H. Saravanamuttoo Emeritus Professor of Mechanical Engineering - Carleton U. herb_saravanamuttoo@carleton.ca 613-241-6911 www.mae.carleton.ca/maehtmls/saravan.html 9

Dipl.-Ing. Peter Dietze energy and climate consultant, officialscientific IPCC TAR

ReviewerFrankenstr. 9 D-91094 Langensendelbach, Germany p_dietze@t-online.de Phone & Fax
+49/9133-5371 www.john-daly.com/forcing/moderr.htm 1, 1a, 1b, 2



The Myths of Climate Change and Renewable Energy

Myth # Myth Description

1 Humanity is the primary cause of global climate change.

1a Computer models show catastrophic warming in the future.

1b The consensus of world scientists, as revealed by the UN's IPCC, agree - humanity is causing significant climate change.

1c Climate change is occurring at an unprecedented rate.

2 Recent global temperature rise has been dramatic.

3 The buildup of human induced greenhouse gases, and carbon dioxide (CO2) in particular, will cause a catastrophic planetary warming.

4 If the earth warms, it will be disastrous for the environment and human society.

5 Extreme weather events are expected to be more common if the world warms. This has already started - drought, floods, forest fires, etc. are on the rise as a result of our greenhouse gas emissions.

6 Sea-level is rising quickly and it will get worse if the polar ice caps melt due to global warming. Coastal settlements and low-lying islands will be submerged.

7 Humanity is causing earth's polar regions to warm quickly resulting in unusual rates of ice melting.

8 Kyoto will save thousands of lives by cutting air pollution.

9 Solar and wind power can soon be significant contributors to the base load energy needs of Canada.


WMM

[jayreynolds]

Fibers rain down on Texas, see: http://rense.com/general60/fibers.htm

Reynolds is now complaigning about his "period." These fibers might make good stay-free maxi-pads for JR? Yeah JR, these are all natural, so get some for wiffy too.

IMHO,
is

Jimbo, I looked into the phenomena of spiderwebs already. If your people were interested in the truth, you would get these analyzed using HPLC. You can then tell if they are ordinary spiderwebs, or not. Since this was written, four years have passed and no chemmie has taken the challenge, or has hidden dat which didn't validate their beliefs.

Where's the beef?

http://worldzone.net/science/reality2u30/silk.html

I predict that no certified HPLC analysis of these webs from Texas will ever be presented.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi Folks,

Today is the "day that shall live in infamy." Pearl Harbor Day. It is also the day the Jay Reynolds and his Masonic-Jew are exposed to planning a deliberate attack on America using jet planes and chemtrails methods.

All one has to do is look up into the skies all across America and the world to see these horizon to horizon clouds made by jet planes. All one has to do is look at jet fuels being modified to remove the sulfur and the rest of the picture becomes clear. Jet fuels and petroleum cause acid rain, and this causes metals problems across the globe. Diseases and illnesses are directly linked. Even AIDS.

The DOE's secret plans to control the acid in the air is running full force to conceal the problems these petroleum companies/fossil fuels have caused to the world.

The biggest of the secrets is that the poles concentrate things like carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. How? Via the Earth's magnetic field and a process called radiolysis. The sun's radiation---UV rays---cause compounds to break apart into ions. These ions are then pulled to the polar regions. At the polar regions lie the highest concentrations of chlorine, fluorine, carbon, etc. It is the reason these polar zones are experiencing increased rates of melting, as compounds of fluorine and carbon are the highest heat absorbing gases and particles.

The effect causes a differential warming of the polar regions compared to other parts of the globe. Lots of the global warming modeling omits this effect. In Oak Ridge in the mid-80s this effect was included and the problem exposed was global warming. One can even see the footprints of this study in the fact that Freons were banned for Cl, and Fluorine products like CF-4 and Halons became banned, and others like SF-6 more regulated. Fluorine gases have huge heat absorbing factors compared to everything else.

The rise of UV in the atmosphere contributed to the compound ionization, therefore the Cl factor was hit the hardest. This is why jet fuels are problems, because they liberate huge amounts of CO-2 and acids that get the most effects from UV radiation. Jet planes high altitude releases send more ions toward the polar zones and induce much more global warming effects. So, the jet fuel industry is working hard to cut the CO-2 emissions. And we can even see some obvious shifts in jet fuels from naphtha based to kerosene based to lower the carbon and up the hydrogen levels. They want it more cloudy and to rain more.

So, what most of these global warming models fail to include is this polar differential heating effects from the ions made via radiation. The effect drastically increases the concentrations in the air of the global warming gases over the poles. Thus, we see how the planet is about to be flooded, as the total polar melt will raise oceans by some 230 ft. It will wipe out major parts of almost all countries. A slow catastrophic harm, with positive feedback factors as the CO-2 sequestion zones in the frozen poles begin to toss out their reservoirs of CO-2. And the carbon concentrations over the poles driven even higher and melting even faster.


Global warming deniers are in a worse class than those that deny the holocaust. Most are as ignorant of what drove the holocausts as they are at the principle factors of differential heating in the atmosphere over the poles.


Jay Reynolds and his vitriolic Jewish-mason side kick are going down in the same infamy toward the US and those of the world for their denial of the global warming factors. They, like the Japanese, have designed a sneak attack on the US and the peoples of the world for their fossil fuels companies. They cannot serve two masters, they only serve be big money. Traitors they have become. Deniers of truth they are.

They shall each go down in infamy here on Dec. 7, 2004. These global warming denier people are the Eco-terrorists and the promoters of environmental terrorism on a scale never before seen. Criminals they have become, promoters of hate to achieve the crimes, they obviously are.

IMHO,
is

[Insurrectionchemistry]

HI,

Remember Pearl Harbor?

Well, it can happen again. It has happened again. Sneak attack.

Some of you might enjoy reading about the early days of chemtrails type thinking at ORNL and within the DOE system. One of the things that set us off on the quest of weather effects was the fact that Hanford scientists were taking note that the weather of the Midwest was being modulated by their releases. Hanford is the big plutonium factory out in Washington State and they emitted lots of acid vapors from fuel element dissolving operations and lots of radioisotopes. So, naturally we started asking ourselves why and how these acid vapors and gaseous isotopes would upset the weather over the US Midwest.

Soon we got down to business as we took note of the ozone hole effects becoming exposed and also asked why is the ozone only being upset over the South Pole. Then we had a reactor called MSRE that had some huge problems with radiolysis effects on UF-4 fuels.

That problem set became the revelations for chemtrails. Radiation can easily break apart compounds and make free ions. These are easily directed by magnetic fields. Then we basically had the main theory for why the chlorine was so high at the South Pole and eating into the ozone processes there. Ozone is made by the same radiolysis like process via the suns radiation. Except now, we had this freon problem and it was getting decomposed by the radiation and making Cl ion issues at the South Pole.

We could not stop there, as the same concentration process would happen for the fluorine component of Freon. Fluorine is also rising at the Poles. Even the Carbon from CO-2 has the same problems. So, soon we determined that what was a little rise in air temp or ground temps in Tennessee, was a much much larger effect happening over the polar regions due to the much much larger concentrations of these global warming gases. The radiation cooking effects and all the active ions made a witches brew of heavily heat absorbing compounds that lingered over the poles.

The common sense key to defining the polar melt problems lies in the process that makes for these higher concentrations of heat absorbing gases over the poles. So, while we see that local weather can be upset by industrial releases of the US mainland, this is slight in comparison to the time integrated gas sequestion process happening over the polar regions.


I raised the red flag on this in the mid-80s at ORNL and the entire national security system then soon became aware and totally shocked at what had been missed. They went into more of a cover up mode, than anything that could be called openness or reporting the problems. It was this cover up mode that set up what was to become the Manhattan Project of global warming mediation. Since I had found the keystone of the global warming mechanism at the poles, I was also consulted for how to perhaps mediate the problems.

The first ideas were to go after the sources. So, freon went down--banned. Fluorine gases became tighter regulated. Freon and the UV-b effects predominated because the higher UV-b levels contributed to the compounds breakdown in the atmosphere and the sharp rise in Ozone competing and Fluoride heat trapping gases at the poles.

I also came up with the methods to enhance water in the atmosphere to address the HF, HCl from fossil fuel emissions. This was the birth of chemtrails, or how to make more water from jet planes to reflect heat back into space and also to rain out the HCl and HF that were screwing up the polar ice.

Soon, these simple ideas became a new Manhattan Project, funded in the same ways that the original project was and with almost the same level of secrecy involved. Same purse strings became involved----big bankers in NY. Lots of the same industries that helped to make the 40s Manhattan Project became involved. And since all this water vapor in the skies would be a sort of sentinel of the second coming it became a Jewish issue too.

It was alike the original Manhattan Projects motivations in so many many ways. The original Manhattan Project formed because Germany had hug economic problems and all blamed the big Jewish Banks, AKA Rothschilds system. So, soon Hitler started kicking out the Jews that were in prominent places in Germany. Soon, this lead to Rothschilds loosing Germany and soon the New York based Jew declare war on Hitler. The Manhattan Project formed directly from this Jewish hatred toward Hitler. Lots of the Jewish nuclear scientists from Europe came here and soon were pushing to make an atomic bomb to kill Hitler.

This same system is what Oak Ridge tapped to go after the global warming issues, because the very same heavily Jewish industries that made the Manhattan Project, were the same ones contributing so much to the global warming / ozone hole disaster. DuPount made huge mistakes in the assurances that its Freon was harmless and inert gas. Freon is not harmless when it is heated or gets around radiation. Then it becomes highly poisonous to man and to planet. The K-25 Plant in Oak Ridge and the DOE gaseous diffusion system were the highest users of Freon in the world, and the highest users of fluorides. So, not only did the decision process involve the elimination of Freon, it involved the shut down of the K-25 plant in Oak Ridge. It leaked huge amounts of HF, freon into the local air. It leaked so much that it disturbed the local air to the point of producing many 100-year storms over the period of a few years.

As the theory developed, we noted we could rain out the acids and curb the polar problems. But we had to deal with the dangerous to health effects of metals in the soil and fluorides from the HF. This is how the titanium effect came into being, as it acted to complex with the fluorides competing against the dangerous aluminum complex that screwed up the G-protein sites of cells.

I even had a plan to deal with the local storm energy problems, much as to how the Hanford emissions affected the weather of the Midwest. I found that barium could set up the very same properties in air, as the radioactive emissions from Hanford. Barium would ionize in just visible light. So, then we could go after methods to modify the Earth's potential gradients and this change the mechanisms that formed the huge storm clouds that did so much destruction.

So, when we get into those attempting to lie and deceive everyone and the appearance becomes more like those involved in Holocaust Denial. Just know that those at acknowledge the holocaust hardly ever tell the truth on what motivated Hitler to put the Jews, Gypsies, Poles and others into concentration camps. The same big money economic system that declared war on Germany, is the very same one that got the Jews put into concentration camps.

Likewise, those that deny the global warming process are even more guilty of crimes against humanity, because the very same factor and factions are involved. Global warming deniers are holocaust deniers. Why, because the very same Jewish factors that lead to the German holocaust are the same big Money Jewish linked hate factors connected to the Manhattan Project that now cover up the global warming crisis.

There is no difference between those that deny the Holocaust and those that deny global warming exists and is getting worse. These people are much worse, because they propose a sneak attack on the entire world to avoid telling the full truth on what is causing global warming and who should be held accountable.

That is why people like ole crooked Jay Reynolds and his Mason-Jew need to be held accountable for attempting to sink half the US and other countries with a slow sneak attack.

IMHO,
is

[whitemajikman]

That is why people like ole crooked Jay Reynolds and his Mason-Jew need to be held accountable for attempting to sink half the US and other countries with a slow sneak attack.

Jim you really have lost all sense of reality,Not only do you have a serious multiple personality episode going on over at Tampa bay Indymedia.

I gave real you a list of real Scientist's to look into,REAL research.........Not fantasy which you are accustomed to,and instead of contacting these individuals and getting some knowledge ,you totally reject them.......

And Come back with more Conspiracy theory and More rediculous claims that you made up in your warped mind.......

You don't belong here Jim............

You belong in a nice restful ,padded, white room with your own complimentary Straight Jacket,and lots of thorzine,who knows maybe you might even qualify for some rounds of shock therapy......


Well If I am going to have to put up with likes of you here,I might as well have some fun.......


Jim,You say you are a descendant of Jesus..........

Where did you get that Idea.....? Is that Pimple on your Ass still sending you telepathic messages ............?

WMM

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Con't,

Since many of you are into the concepts for global warming, I thought it good to review what the thinking at ORNL was in the mid-80s. Just some simple concepts. Since all those concepts and methods apply directly to the discussion at hand here. Global warming is intimately tied to man's pollutants and both these to the concepts behind chemtrails.

At ORNL, We saw the indicators for polar ice melting from concentration and sequestration of the varied global warming gases above the poles and this was reason for concern based on the building ozone hole effects. This pinned down one significant mechanism. Freon was a huge trigger factor, and it is nowhere near solved as other countries continue to make the stuff and release it into the air. This is the reason for full disclosures on how all came to transpire in the process of the ozone hole and its direct connection to the global warming differential heating of the poles.

We added other factors to the discussion and decision processes, with the inclusion of other man induced factors. 1. Forest cutting and reduction of CO-2 consumption, 2. Acid rain fallout into the surface of oceans and the effects on plankton to absorb CO-2, 3. The rising population of the Earth and rise in energy consumption and CO-2 emissions associated, and 4. that if we attempted to mediate these effects we would be involving the planet in a huge experiment and the Nuremberg Code would apply.

Factors like inducing rains to fall in the lands or in the oceans became important to consider. If the air traffic methods were used to make rain, then land masses would catch more of the pollutants, and the oceans less. The huge CO-2 absorption of the oceans plankton could be partly preserved.

After we came to take note of the differential heating concepts over the poles and the factors driving it, we came to ask ourselves why this was different that natural events like volcanos or large forest fires. Volcanos dump out Sulfuric, Hydrochloric, and Hydrogen Fluoride acids all through time.

This brought in the terminal event theory and the issues like nuclear winters. We took note that volcanos could bring on something like nuclear winters and land based volcanos would have different responses than ocean based volcanos.

We studied old volcanic events and came up with one called "Krack-a-toa," which was an ocean based detonation that is reported to have blocked out the sun for a month all around the globe. It sounded just like the nuclear winter effects. But our modeling showed the rapid cooling of the planet and the shut down of the volcanic eruption due to the cooling effects. So, it was a good lesson in feedback and balance.

The ocean volcanos also pulled down lots of the acids in the month long heavy rains. But the land volcanos were different, they released lots of particles and acids into the skies and the dynamics changed. They caused polar effects and more heating like global warming. But the events would worsen until the heat of the planet put enough water vapor into the air to shield the Sun's heat and then reach an equilibrium state. These events were often short on the time scale of events and never got into breaking the CO-2 sinks in the arctic, nor on the oceans floor. This is why human activities connected to global warming are more catastopic in the long run. Man's factors continue to worsen, despite mother nature attempting to correct for the problems. Man is only parly listening with motions toward chemtrails, banning some chemicals, and cutting some pollution.

It was this thinking that said we can help offset the equilibrium points or slow down global warming factors by doing methods to increase either the rise of water vapor in the air or the formation of clouds to reflect the Sun's heating back into space. So, jet planes and playing games with the fuels processing and hydrogen came into view as ways to manipulate this effect on a global scale. These methods are in effect right as we speak in the form of chemtrails, all highly visible around the globe.

Associated with many of these huge volcanic events in history is a period of latency then outbreaks of the Black / Bubonic Plague. Here the HF toxic effects appear to have entered the food chain and came to affect the immune systems of rodents in Northern cities. So, these type associations and concerns lead to the look at how fluorides damaged the immune system. This is how the AlFx factors entered the picture and their blocking the G-protein signaling of T-cells. Fluorides even upset the metals metabolism of cells and rendered such essential metals as manganese insoluble and unavailable to protest cells from HIV replication. Fluorides and metals also triggered cytokine TNF-a, which is a growth factor for retro-viruses.

We had a problem, a huge problem. There were three approaches: 1. Do nothing and let the natural death rates increase from rising fluorides effects, or 2. Try to come up with some high tech cure for the illness called AIDS using other than disclosure of the actual illness driver mechanism, 3. or to report it all. The global warming equations involving man said that methods 1 and 2 should be allowed, but method 3 should be suppressed. This way the planet could be reduced in population using the diseases causing effects of pollution.

We also tracked down the East African Rift Zone association with volcanic rifting effects and the very high levels of fluorides in both the water supplies and the food grown there. All regions that have this toxic exposure, also sustain very high rates of HIV transmission. These are the more sinister sides of US national security methods and those they seek to kill. Same methods apply to Jay Reynolds, who is more into concealing the facts than anything else. We called all these type persons in Oak Ridge, The Crooks.

Like it or not, global warming is directly associated with the problem of AIDs, as these fluorides and metals get into the ecosystems and humans. AIDS is largely a man induced illness that is sustained because they don't want to admit why it occurred and to lower the planets population. AIDS is a very anti-black disease, as it is high intended to depopulate most of Africa. Such methods are highly connected with Nuremberg issues and crimes against humanity.

Once we got into the volcano sciences we quickly recognized the links to the story of Noah, and the great flood there. Then even into the methods of Moses and chemical alchemy tricks. Then we got well into the investigations of issues of religion and factors like in the book called The DaVinci Codes. Here we found god and religion were designed by man for controlling man. But that there were some real associations in them, obscured by man's monkeying with them.

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

So people when are you all going to do something about the global warming and chemtrails. It is time for action. The debate is at an impass and will stay there.

[gaiacomm]

I hope that all of the posts that have been posted on this thread and others have helped those that wish to get a different point of view and have a window to the west. The power is with and will always be the the people and not just a few.

Its about choices. Remember that those who have guns to control and fear they themselevs can be removed by looking for the little detail that was overlooked in haste. Rid yourself of fear and not be tricked by money and you will have the edge. The person that cannot be bought or sold and not looking for reward for oneself will have the power over the rest!

Live long and Prosper!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi Gaia,

I like Star Trek also. Some very good messages hide in those episodes.

I guess the worlds worst racists were unmasked here recently. Those that like to cover up chemtrails issues also provide for a world holocaust on AIDS. Jay Reynolds and his Mason side kick are the worlds greatest racists for coving up the fluoride connections to AIDS and the killing off of Africa in an AIDS holocaust. They hate blacks to the point of killing them all across Africa.

They also hate anyone that exposes them for what they really are. Racist thugs they are.

Gaia, you ever look at the symbolism of why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbon on Dec. 7, 1941 and Hanukkah is Dec. 8 each year?

IMHO,
is

[jayreynolds]

Wayne,
I'm laughing my ass off at your spokesman Jim Phelps. The link below and the quoted text below that just about tell the whole story. To think you actually believed this guy was something, and look at what he eventually revealed himself to be. This has to be the biggest embarassment ever for you and Deborah. Like I've said before, you are one set of really messed up people, you chemmies..........

Don't say I didn't warn you. You two welcomed Jim Phelps with open arms, and he became your black sheep. A schitzoid kook and a jew-hating racist fanatic with a messiah complex, all rolled into one neat package.

happy trails,
Jay
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=197504&postcount=4066


Con't,

Since many of you are into the concepts for global warming, I thought it good to review what the thinking at ORNL was in the mid-80s. Just some simple concepts. Since all those concepts and methods apply directly to the discussion at hand here. Global warming is intimately tied to man's pollutants and both these to the concepts behind chemtrails.

At ORNL, We saw the indicators for polar ice melting from concentration and sequestration of the varied global warming gases above the poles and this was reason for concern based on the building ozone hole effects. This pinned down one significant mechanism. Freon was a huge trigger factor, and it is nowhere near solved as other countries continue to make the stuff and release it into the air. This is the reason for full disclosures on how all came to transpire in the process of the ozone hole and its direct connection to the global warming differential heating of the poles.

We added other factors to the discussion and decision processes, with the inclusion of other man induced factors. 1. Forest cutting and reduction of CO-2 consumption, 2. Acid rain fallout into the surface of oceans and the effects on plankton to absorb CO-2, 3. The rising population of the Earth and rise in energy consumption and CO-2 emissions associated, and 4. that if we attempted to mediate these effects we would be involving the planet in a huge experiment and the Nuremberg Code would apply.

Factors like inducing rains to fall in the lands or in the oceans became important to consider. If the air traffic methods were used to make rain, then land masses would catch more of the pollutants, and the oceans less. The huge CO-2 absorption of the oceans plankton could be partly preserved.

After we came to take note of the differential heating concepts over the poles and the factors driving it, we came to ask ourselves why this was different that natural events like volcanos or large forest fires. Volcanos dump out Sulfuric, Hydrochloric, and Hydrogen Fluoride acids all through time.

This brought in the terminal event theory and the issues like nuclear winters. We took note that volcanos could bring on something like nuclear winters and land based volcanos would have different responses than ocean based volcanos.

We studied old volcanic events and came up with one called "Krack-a-toa," which was an ocean based detonation that is reported to have blocked out the sun for a month all around the globe. It sounded just like the nuclear winter effects. But our modeling showed the rapid cooling of the planet and the shut down of the volcanic eruption due to the cooling effects. So, it was a good lesson in feedback and balance.

The ocean volcanos also pulled down lots of the acids in the month long heavy rains. But the land volcanos were different, they released lots of particles and acids into the skies and the dynamics changed. They caused polar effects and more heating like global warming. But the events would worsen until the heat of the planet put enough water vapor into the air to shield the Sun's heat and then reach an equilibrium state. These events were often short on the time scale of events and never got into breaking the CO-2 sinks in the arctic, nor on the oceans floor. This is why human activities connected to global warming are more catastopic in the long run. Man's factors continue to worsen, despite mother nature attempting to correct for the problems. Man is only parly listening with motions toward chemtrails, banning some chemicals, and cutting some pollution.

It was this thinking that said we can help offset the equilibrium points or slow down global warming factors by doing methods to increase either the rise of water vapor in the air or the formation of clouds to reflect the Sun's heating back into space. So, jet planes and playing games with the fuels processing and hydrogen came into view as ways to manipulate this effect on a global scale. These methods are in effect right as we speak in the form of chemtrails, all highly visible around the globe.

Associated with many of these huge volcanic events in history is a period of latency then outbreaks of the Black / Bubonic Plague. Here the HF toxic effects appear to have entered the food chain and came to affect the immune systems of rodents in Northern cities. So, these type associations and concerns lead to the look at how fluorides damaged the immune system. This is how the AlFx factors entered the picture and their blocking the G-protein signaling of T-cells. Fluorides even upset the metals metabolism of cells and rendered such essential metals as manganese insoluble and unavailable to protest cells from HIV replication. Fluorides and metals also triggered cytokine TNF-a, which is a growth factor for retro-viruses.

We had a problem, a huge problem. There were three approaches: 1. Do nothing and let the natural death rates increase from rising fluorides effects, or 2. Try to come up with some high tech cure for the illness called AIDS using other than disclosure of the actual illness driver mechanism, 3. or to report it all. The global warming equations involving man said that methods 1 and 2 should be allowed, but method 3 should be suppressed. This way the planet could be reduced in population using the diseases causing effects of pollution.

We also tracked down the East African Rift Zone association with volcanic rifting effects and the very high levels of fluorides in both the water supplies and the food grown there. All regions that have this toxic exposure, also sustain very high rates of HIV transmission. These are the more sinister sides of US national security methods and those they seek to kill. Same methods apply to Jay Reynolds, who is more into concealing the facts than anything else. We called all these type persons in Oak Ridge, The Crooks.

Like it or not, global warming is directly associated with the problem of AIDs, as these fluorides and metals get into the ecosystems and humans. AIDS is largely a man induced illness that is sustained because they don't want to admit why it occurred and to lower the planets population. AIDS is a very anti-black disease, as it is high intended to depopulate most of Africa. Such methods are highly connected with Nuremberg issues and crimes against humanity.

Once we got into the volcano sciences we quickly recognized the links to the story of Noah, and the great flood there. Then even into the methods of Moses and chemical alchemy tricks. Then we got well into the investigations of issues of religion and factors like in the book called The DaVinci Codes. Here we found god and religion were designed by man for controlling man. But that there were some real associations in them, obscured by man's monkeying with them.

IMHO,
is

[foot_soldier]

jayreynolds wrote:
.....This has to be the biggest embarassment ever for you and Deborah.....
I have nothing to be "embarrassed" about as far as I'm concerned.

Hang it up already. You've achieved your purpose here.

Don't you have some "foreigner" to scare the shit out of with a little spin around the plantation in your truck?

<yawn>

[halva]

Why haven't you ignore-listed him, Deborah? He will not acknowledge that he has achieved his purpose.

Posting the following for info. Not of direct practical concern to Americans of course:

Campaign against Climate Change

Kyoto Climate Parade, Saturday February 12th

We are bringing our annual 'Kyoto March' (usually in the Spring) forward to mark the coming into force of the Kyoto Protocol (Wednesday 16th February). We will be holding it on the first Saturday before that date, Saturday February 12th.

We will not be following the pattern of previous 'Kyoto Marches' but may organise a bicycle ride from ExxonMobil HQ, Leatherhead, in the morning. The main march will start at around noon and reach the US embassy for rally and speeches at about 2.oo pm. The highlight will be a parade of the flags of all the countries (128) that have ratified the Kyoto Protocol. Meanwhile we are actively promoting this as an international event: that is encouraging parallel events - especially at US embassies and consulates -around the world, on the same date. To see progress on this check out www.kyotofortheworld.net

PLANNING MEETING for the Climate Parade and international action, Thursday 9th Dec, 6.00pm at Friends of the Earth, 26-28 Underwood Street, London N1 (Old Street tube).

This will be to organise the Climate Parade and possibly a series of public meetings around the country in the run up to it, as well as promotion of the international action. Organisations represented should include Friends of the Earth, The Green Party, Globalise Resistance and IFEES (Islamic Foundation for Ecology and Environmental Sciences).

[halva]

The highlight will be a parade of the flags of all the countries (128) that have ratified the Kyoto Protocol. Meanwhile we are actively promoting this as an international event: that is encouraging parallel events - especially at US embassies and consulates -around the world, on the same date.


Of course I am not in favour of granting recognition to the US Federal Government through the act of demonstrating outside its embassies.

The point is to praise the US state governments that are supporting Kyoto while at the same time aiding and abetting all Americans who are boycotting their federal government, refusing to pay its taxes and otherwise demonstrating lack of recognition.

[gaiacomm]

So people when are you all going to do something about the global warming and chemtrails. It is time for action. The debate is at an impass and will stay there.


AOM

[gaiacomm]

I hope that all of the posts that have been posted on this thread and others have helped those that wish to get a different point of view and have a window to the west. The power is with and will always be the the people and not just a few.

Its about choices. Remember that those who have guns to control and fear they themselevs can be removed by looking for the little detail that was overlooked in haste. Rid yourself of fear and not be tricked by money and you will have the edge. The person that cannot be bought or sold and not looking for reward for oneself will have the power over the rest!

Live long and Prosper!


AOM

[halva]

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/11/303305.shtml

a broad movement for Secession
author: person
Secession of Cascadia
Written for the public meeting of 11-13-04, by some of your neighbors

Secession of Cascadia
Written for the public meeting of 11-13-04, by some of your neighbors

What We Want?
Self-determination!
According to the United States Constitution, all citizens have the rights to free speech, free assembly, the right to bear arms, the right to choose one's own religion and many more things that are now being trampled under the feet of Bush and his allies. Now that Bush believes he has a "mandate", and he feels his views are backed up by his God, he doesn't care that we feel unrepresented by his policies and administration.

But what about the Constitution? The Constitution is a contract between the People and the government, and the government has broken this contract by creating laws and executive powers that destroy our constitutional rights. The US government has handed over the powers and the moneys of the people to Corporations and their advocates (such as the World Trade Organization, and its predecessor NAFTA) at the direct expense of the People, our health, and our kids' futures. The US government has committed genocide, tortured and illegally incarcerated people (including US citizens) proving the "Land of the Free" to be the "Land of Hypocrisy". We demand the right to alter or abolish our relationship with the government, because this is our inherent right. We demand self-government, because without a say in what governs our lives, we are slaves to the political and economic interests that can buy the most power.

Imagine democracy, where everyone has a say in his or her own life and in the workings of their communities. Although this may seem like a huge responsibility for individuals to take on, this responsibility already lies squarely on our shoulders. If we shirk it, fascism has a field day. It's time to get to work to determine our own futures.

Human Rights for All! A World without Imperialist Genocide!

In the recent presidential election, voters were given a choice that had nothing to do with our actual vision for our society, communities and lives. Instead, the political debate was cast as "Bush and anyone but Bush" and "the spoilers ruining it for the Democrats" and "Compassionate Conservatives vs. Neo-Liberals". All this typecasting is only useful to try to control and rebalance a teetering façade of a government. How much of what politicians say is just for the effect it has on voters? How many promises are ever kept? Much is being taken from the People- our families for war, our money in taxes, and our time and good health in the desperate search to make a living in a time when the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. And all these resources that are being extracted from us are being used to conquer and grab the resources of other parts of the world.

All of this is going on, while many people in this country are legally or socially disenfranchised, and the rest of us are given the choice between two puppets as potential Presidents. If this nation's regime does not represent you, it is time to let the rest of the world and the rest of the nation know it. The stakes are too high for people both inside and outside the United States, and to stay silent is complicity.

How Are We Going to Get There?

People all over the nation, most visibly in Cascadia and New England, are beginning to form movements for secession. Because we supposedly have the inherent right to alter or abolish our government, this movement has many different tactics that can be employed. To reach the goals of legal secession, material independence from the United States, having functional direct democracy, and beginning the work of laying a foundation for the long-term survival of our independence- we must have a broad and diverse movement. We must be capable of adapting to changing conditions, and defending our movement's successes. It's time to talk strategy, and brainstorm tactics!

It is very important that our movement is not isolated from other places and peoples that are trying to secede, because we will only have enough resilience and people power to make headway if we work together and support one another. We must defend one another, share resources, and make sure that we are not isolated and boxed into a corner by the crushing weight of the US and its corporate media.

Though it is a scary time to try to make change, I am proud to witness my community standing up and acting from the strength of its desire for a humane society. I am looking forward to our successful secession.



Canadians for Cascadia 14.Nov.2004 20:57
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chadermando thermobc@shaw.ca link

I think its great that some Americans feel strongly about their democratic rights. In BC we have the Citizens Assembly which is formulating a new way of electing governments in BC. I think its a great process.

http://www.citizensassembly.bc.ca/public

IMO once we get this sorted out in BC I would be open for a Cascadia union of Independent states based on a common respect for democratic values, human conditions, and environmental standards that justify free trade. IMO this could be the start of a New Regional Order, or Cooperation Agreement for Regional Free Trade from a grass roots level.

A form of citizen based governmental relationship that is sovereign from the multinational controlled program we have now at a global level with the legitimacy of the people as its authority.

[gaiacomm]

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/11/303305.shtml

a broad movement for Secession
author: person
Secession of Cascadia
Written for the public meeting of 11-13-04, by some of your neighbors

Secession of Cascadia
Written for the public meeting of 11-13-04, by some of your neighbors

What We Want?
Self-determination!
According to the United States Constitution, all citizens have the rights to free speech, free assembly, the right to bear arms, the right to choose one's own religion and many more things that are now being trampled under the feet of Bush and his allies. Now that Bush believes he has a "mandate", and he feels his views are backed up by his God, he doesn't care that we feel unrepresented by his policies and administration.

But what about the Constitution? The Constitution is a contract between the People and the government, and the government has broken this contract by creating laws and executive powers that destroy our constitutional rights. The US government has handed over the powers and the moneys of the people to Corporations and their advocates (such as the World Trade Organization, and its predecessor NAFTA) at the direct expense of the People, our health, and our kids' futures. The US government has committed genocide, tortured and illegally incarcerated people (including US citizens) proving the "Land of the Free" to be the "Land of Hypocrisy". We demand the right to alter or abolish our relationship with the government, because this is our inherent right. We demand self-government, because without a say in what governs our lives, we are slaves to the political and economic interests that can buy the most power.

Imagine democracy, where everyone has a say in his or her own life and in the workings of their communities. Although this may seem like a huge responsibility for individuals to take on, this responsibility already lies squarely on our shoulders. If we shirk it, fascism has a field day. It's time to get to work to determine our own futures.

Human Rights for All! A World without Imperialist Genocide!

In the recent presidential election, voters were given a choice that had nothing to do with our actual vision for our society, communities and lives. Instead, the political debate was cast as "Bush and anyone but Bush" and "the spoilers ruining it for the Democrats" and "Compassionate Conservatives vs. Neo-Liberals". All this typecasting is only useful to try to control and rebalance a teetering façade of a government. How much of what politicians say is just for the effect it has on voters? How many promises are ever kept? Much is being taken from the People- our families for war, our money in taxes, and our time and good health in the desperate search to make a living in a time when the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. And all these resources that are being extracted from us are being used to conquer and grab the resources of other parts of the world.

All of this is going on, while many people in this country are legally or socially disenfranchised, and the rest of us are given the choice between two puppets as potential Presidents. If this nation's regime does not represent you, it is time to let the rest of the world and the rest of the nation know it. The stakes are too high for people both inside and outside the United States, and to stay silent is complicity.

How Are We Going to Get There?

People all over the nation, most visibly in Cascadia and New England, are beginning to form movements for secession. Because we supposedly have the inherent right to alter or abolish our government, this movement has many different tactics that can be employed. To reach the goals of legal secession, material independence from the United States, having functional direct democracy, and beginning the work of laying a foundation for the long-term survival of our independence- we must have a broad and diverse movement. We must be capable of adapting to changing conditions, and defending our movement's successes. It's time to talk strategy, and brainstorm tactics!

It is very important that our movement is not isolated from other places and peoples that are trying to secede, because we will only have enough resilience and people power to make headway if we work together and support one another. We must defend one another, share resources, and make sure that we are not isolated and boxed into a corner by the crushing weight of the US and its corporate media.

Though it is a scary time to try to make change, I am proud to witness my community standing up and acting from the strength of its desire for a humane society. I am looking forward to our successful secession.



Canadians for Cascadia 14.Nov.2004 20:57
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chadermando thermobc@shaw.ca link

I think its great that some Americans feel strongly about their democratic rights. In BC we have the Citizens Assembly which is formulating a new way of electing governments in BC. I think its a great process.

http://www.citizensassembly.bc.ca/public

IMO once we get this sorted out in BC I would be open for a Cascadia union of Independent states based on a common respect for democratic values, human conditions, and environmental standards that justify free trade. IMO this could be the start of a New Regional Order, or Cooperation Agreement for Regional Free Trade from a grass roots level.

A form of citizen based governmental relationship that is sovereign from the multinational controlled program we have now at a global level with the legitimacy of the people as its authority.


Words!

[jayreynolds]

Why haven't you ignore-listed him, Deborah?

Yes, Debbie, do what Wayne says, yesiree, boss. step'n fetchit.

Hey, girl, I got my second Mercedes recently, another diesel model, hardly smokes at all with all the barium in the tank.. Of course one is twenty years old with 170,000 miles, and the old one is 21 yrs with 250,000 miles. Pick you up at 8, don't be late, you nooooooooo what I like..

Wayne doesn't have to know, he's got me ignore-listed!
(yeah, right).

[jayreynolds]

[color=green]I have nothing to be "embarrassed" about as far as I'm concerned.

Not embarassed about your best buddy Jim Phelps, eh?
Can I quote you on that?




You go first.

[quote=Deborah Stark]Don't you have some "foreigner" to scare the shit out of with a little spin around the plantation in your truck?

"Baby you can drive my car"...........

"The use of of barium in the form of organometallic compounds as a smoke suppressant in diesel fuels results in the release of solids to the atmosphere(Miner 1969a; Ng and Patterson 1982; Schroeder 1970). The maximum concentration of soluble barium in exhaust gases containing barium-based smoke suppressants released from test diesel engines and operating diesel vehiclesis estimated to be 12,000 mg/m3, when the barium concentration in the dieselfuel is 0.075% by weight and 25% of the exhausted barium (at a sampling point10 ft from the engine and upstream from the muffler) is soluble (Golothan1967). Thus, 1 L of this exhaust gas contains an estimated 12 mg solublebarium or 48 mg total barium (Schroeder 1970"

[halva]

Words!

Yes, I quite agree. But anything to distract the debunkers from what we are really doing.

[halva]

Hard ball on Kyoto

09dec04

THE US, the world's largest producer of global-warming gases, yesterday refused to change its mind on climate change.

It claimed the Kyoto Protocol was not underpinned by science, but based on politics.
Some delegates at an international climate change conference in Buenos Aires lamented the stance, saying global warming was accelerating much faster than previously believed.

A US climate change negotiator, Harlan Watson, appeared unruffled.

"Kyoto is a political agreement, it's not based on science," he said.

"We do not intend to change our approach."

The Kyoto accord is the world's most ambitious and complex environmental treaty.

It legally commits 39 industrial nations and territories, including Japan and Europe, to trim their output of six greenhouse gases -- especially carbon dioxide -- by at least 5.2 per cent by 2012, compared with 1990 levels. - AFP

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi All,

It appears Jay Reynolds now is trying to add sexual harassment to his list of accomplishments. How else can one explain this comment: "Pick you up at 8, don't be late, you nooooooooo what I like.."

Reynolds seems to have some interesting package problems connected to big expensive cars, as all the Southern Girls tell us those guys are hung like mice.

Meanwhile, Jay Reynolds and his Jewish associate have been caught over on Indymedia doing impersonations of Jim Phelps and what appears to be "identity theft."

Some of Reynold's pals over on Indymedia are having to become apologists for his wild swings across the blue line, etc. They admit they can't support Reynold's and Mad-Magi's deceit. Really admitting that they can't even support the Mossad-jewish extremes on attacking Christians for taking up what Jesus said about the Talmudists.

Meanwhile, after all that crime spree, we all find the Reynolds has been none to honest (once again) in regard to telling where he is living these says, as Shadow seems to have exposed:

""There is a solution. Anyone who would like to assist Mr. Reynolds in this “identity crisis” should send suggestions to:

HC 6x Box 3xx
Calico Rock, AR 72519

or give him a jingle at:

x70-297-x205

I am certain that he would greatly appreciate any assistance. Please be courteous to the rest of his family. They are probably feeling trapped the way it is. ""

(Data was slightly modified above with x's)


More and more people are needing to apologize for the crazy Reynolds and more and more finding it very hard to be found standing anywhere near his line of infamous hyjinx.

Lets see the Jay Reynold's list is now threats to stick a knife in veins of chemmies and drain their blood out, sexual harassment looking things toward women, incitment of his Jewish buddy to commit identity theft, trying to blame problems with jet planes and Al-Q on chemmies when the real problems lies with the Jewish perversions of god, trying to make chemmies into communists, and the list goes on.

IMHO,
is

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Greetings,

One of the more interesting prognostication from Jay Reynolds is this non-sense on Jim Phelps always getting into the Jews. When, we all take note that Jay Reynolds is no great sage, but a purposeful fraud. Everywhere Jay Reynolds goes, so goes his radical extremist Jewish-Mason side kick.

The Jewish-Mason sidekick has all the more look of a Mossad extremist who attacks anyone that read and understood the teachings of Rabbi Jesus. So, when you see this scamming going on between Jay Reynolds and this Mossad agent do keep in mind the plan is to attempt to blame aircraft problems from Al-Q disagreements with the Jews on Chemmies and those that take up the truth on Jesus.

When you find these extremists attempting to label you some sort of anti-semite, then lay down the truth on their fabrications on god. Major sins these are and are these people.

By Definition, Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi that both Christendom and Islam recognize as being the most correct of all the Jewish system of religion and since we tend to realize his ideas and ideals for God, we cannot be termed antisemetic. Only via false claims of agents for Zionism are people falsely labeled and derided by dishonest individuals.

In many ways these problems listed below became worse after Charlemain, because he burned all the dissenting texts. Perhaps the derivation of the word chaleton and Charlemain need to be linked. Charlemain was a Sun worship type, which is where the original Egyptian stuff that Moses and much of Jesus' time was connected.

Islam believes in Jesus and the Islam recogition of these corruptions of god are very real. The scam team of Jay Reynolds and the Jew-Mason that serves at his left hand attempt to assign Al-Q differences with jet planes to chemmies. All the problems orignate directly from these scam artists of religion.

More words below:

IMHO,
is

http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2004%20opinions/March/23%20o/The%20Talmud,%20Racism,%20Hatred%20and%20Anti-Christism%20By%20John%20Anast.htm

The Talmud forms the religious training for Rabbis, observant and reformed Jews. Upon close examination is it clear that the Talmud not only supports racism and hatred, but is the source of hatred directed towards non-Jews.

It was Christ who pointed out that Phariseeism / Talmudism / Judaism is a religion based upon the instructions of men. Basically the Pharisee appointed themselves g-ds and taught and ruled as if they were man-g-ds. Several Talmudic passages which speak to this point are clearly found in Tractate Mechilla whereas, it says: " Yahweh Himself studies the Talmud standing, He has such respect for that book. " How blasphemous that any man or group of men would not only accept that nonsense but teach it to others in religious doctrine? In another tractate Mizbeach 13 Judaism teaches that " There is nothing superior to the Holy Talmud ". Who made the Talmud "holy"? Is it Torah or Law? In other words the Talmud is the Jewish law and like Zionism it has replaced Torah as the instruction book on how to live. I am sure that our Creator did not consult with any Rabbi or the Talmud before He created the universe. There is nothing superior to the Creator.

Not withstanding, the Talmudists place themselves not only above the Law but also disregard the Prophets of Yah as in Treatise Berachoth Judaism advises that " The words of the elders are better than the words of the prophets ". In contrast the New Testament which is made up mostly of Old Testament passages is a guide to the completion of the Law of our Creator. Christians believe Christ lived the Law in completion, without blemish, without flaw. I do not mean that Christ was a handsome fellow for certainly he was not. The basic tenant of Christianity is that our rescuer lived the Law and was without transgression therefore allowing His sacrifice to cover our transgressions. Christ was not a "revolutionary" or any other myriad of pejorative titles ascribed by men, he was and is a living example which example was and continues to be rejected by Judaism.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi again,

You all need to check out the NWO symbolism on ORNL's CO-2 page, see:
http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/home.html

Check the big pyramid, Mason symbolism. You should see where that comes from easily now, if you have read this thread at any length.

Also check out the big ORNL plan to save the world from CO-2 by using bacteria to convert all the CO-2 sequested at the poles. ORNL and the Univ. of Tenn. have been into this in-situ remediation methods using bacteria and microbles. Other scemes use pumping into the ground.

It seems to have begun in Oak Ridge when they found the worlds largest PCB spill under the Y-12 nuclear weapons factory. Y-12 used the flame retardant transformer oil called PCB as a cutting oil for uranium parts because they tend to catch on fire easily during machine operations.

For decades they let the material seep into the ground and now the worlds largest PCB spill sits under Oak Ridge on rock shelf. They don't want to dig it up, so they came up with an idea to make a designer big to eat the stuff and convert its chemical form. Thus insitu bacterial remediation was born in Oak Ridge.


Now, the same idea is being designed to eat up the CO-2 trapped at the poles.

Check it out.

IMHO,
is

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Check this one out. Jay Reynold's death threats, associated ID theft, and name calling being singled out as being over the blue line by IndyMedia.

IMHO,
is


From IndyMedia----guess they would not like the FBI taking down their servers.
===
Hey there-

Just a note from your friendly neighborhood admin....

I wandered into that thread this morning, and discovered people calling names, threatening one another... one user even posted someone else's home address and phone number.

That is completely unacceptable. Do it again, and be IP banned.

The thread has not been destroyed, but is in holding while the editorial collective decides what to do with it.

Feel free to start another one, but if you'd like it to stay, I recommend a few ground rules:

- can the name calling. It does nothing to advance conversation.

- cut out the threats. You go too far over the line there, and you could be breaking the law.

....
Peace,
lara/ed. collective

[jayreynolds]

I see the messageboard has been taken offline.
Congratulations, Jim. You and Diane Harvey did a number on that one.

[whitemajikman]

Jim,You really should take your Medication,These rants of yours are beginning to get a bit Bizarre in nature.

You have made so many outlandish claims and have Bashed Jewry repeatedly without providing one shred of proof for any of your claims.

All In all you are a waste of time and effort.

WMM

[whitemajikman]

Wayne your friends are good at disruption........

Do they always do their best to make you look like a total psychotic Idiot........(you know that association thing and all)......?

So now Jim Phelps the Racist Bigot Conspiracy Theorist whom has had a long history of causing trouble for his ASSociates now thinks that he has the upper hand..........

Well Jim if this was 1943 and we were at Treblinka you would indeed have the upper hand,and I a nice little tattoo for my Trouble.

But low and behold this is not 1943 nazi germany,and you have no power what so ever,except for what your diseased mind makes up as it goes along into it's multiple personality nirvana.

You have completely erased all doubts in the minds of the people whom frequent this thread that you are indeed INSANE and a danger to yourself and to the public you wish to subvert into the JIM PHELPS KOOL-AID CLUB........

I challenge you JIM to start another thread on this Site so WE can debate this Anti-semitic conspiracy theory of yours......

No holds barred you can cut and paste all you wish as long as it is relevant to the debate.....

Now Quite Honestly ,I don't expect you to win, I never could when I was Investigating this course of deliberation and the reasons are simple because the Flaws out weigh the Evidence that you will provide.

So Jimbo are you up to this ,or will you run........

WMM

[gaiacomm]

Love one another! And forgive those that do not understand!

[Yaak]

Jimmy Boy, FYI Jay posted his own phone number and address on the Internet. For all I know it's on his web site, too. It is the only thing I've ever seen him post that I disagreed with. The reason I believe it to be a bad idea is because of the raving lunatics like you out there.

What did you do at Tampa Bay IndyMedia to get the chemtrails thread shut-down? I have a suspicion that you threatened me and called me names. If so, I'm sorry I missed it. You really do amuse me (like a strange bug in a fruit jar).

[gaiacomm]

Love one another! And forgive those that do not understand!


Love one another! And forgive those that do not understand!

[foot_soldier]

Union of Concerned Scientists
Catalyst Magazine
http://www.ucsusa.org/publications/catalyst.cfm?publicationID=544

[foot_soldier]

From the Fall 2003 issue of Catalyst Magazine:
http://www.ucsusa.org/publications/catalyst.cfm?publicationID=861

Interesting map. Looks like another version of the Red & Blue State breakdown:

[halva]

Love one another! And forgive those that do not understand!

No. Love those you love, be civilized with others, and ignore-list those that do not understand.

As far as the sexual harassment phenomena are concerned that Jim Phelps has pointed out. All this projection of private sexual themes into the "discussion", etc., addressing of other participants as if they were personal friends and even mistresses/lovers etc: this is truly psychopathic behaviour. It is inconceivable that any person with a tolerable personal life could, even for political motives, engage in behaviour of this kind. It shows too much disrespect for one's putative nearest and dearest.

Raynolds is bending credulity in seeking recognition as a political operative.

[halva]

From the Fall 2003 issue of Catalyst Magazine:
http://www.ucsusa.org/publications/catalyst.cfm?publicationID=861

Interesting map. Looks like another version of the Red & Blue State breakdown:



See how footsoldier just continues quietly posting relevant information, not bothering herself with trash.

[halva]

The Athens Ecological Movement (OIKIA) has decided to support the February 12th Kyoto Climate Parade. At the group's Dec 8th meeting there was discussion of the appropriateness of demonstrating outside US embassies, whether such demonstrations represent a form of recognition of a government the legitimacy of whose election is now being disputed by Greens, Libertarians and even some Democrat leaders including the Rev. Jessie Jackson. It was agreed that we should seek some way of showing recognition and legitimation for American state governments that support Kyoto and derecognition and delegitimation of the federal government that does not.

The following information will be useful for any other participants in the February 12th Kyoto Climate Parade seeking to apply the same policy in relation to the American federal government and American state governments:

State and Regional Efforts

Thirteen states have adopted renewable electricity standards that require utilities to generate an increasing portion of their electricity from clean energy sources such as wind and solar. Collectively, these standards will double the nation's current renewable energy capacity excluding hydropower), eliminating as much carbon dioxide as taking 5.4 million cars off the road or planting more than 1.6 billion trees.

In 2001, New England governors and the premiers of five eastern Canadian provinces agreed to cap heat-trapping emissions at 1990 levels by 2010, and 10 percent below 1990 levels by 2020. New York Governor George Pataki has also launched discussions among 10 Northeast states aimed at establishing binding caps on power plant emissions that could eventually expand to include other sectors, such as transportation and land use, and would help meet the goals set by the New England/Canadian program.

Washington, Oregon, and California are working to curb heat-trapping emissions through initiatives such as stricter appliance efficiency standards and fuel-efficient vehicles for state fleets. As Washington Governor Gary Locke explained, "The governors of the West Coast states have concluded that in the absence of meaningful federal action, we must act individually and regionally to address the sources of global warming."

In addition, California (which has long led the nation in fighting pollution from cars and trucks) recently passed legislation requiring automakers to significantly reduce tailpipe emissions from new cars and light trucks starting in model year 2009.

At the Local Level

Last fall, during Senate debate on the Climate Stewardship Act, 155 mayors sent a statement to Congress expressing concern about global warming's impact on their communities. Saying that their constituents were "calling on us as elected leaders to address global warming," they demanded new federal policies and programs that would help reduce heat-trapping emissions.

Nearly 50 U.S. municipalities including Atlanta, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, and New York have also joined the international Cities for Climate Protection campaign. Participants set emission reduction targets and develop action plans to meet them, incorporating such varied strategies as judicious land-use and development policies, public transit and ride sharing, energy-efficient building codes, and waste reduction and recycling programs. Along with lower heat-trapping emissions, these communities will reap other benefits: reduced traffic congestion and smog, lower municipal utility and fuel bills, and new jobs created by increased investment in energy-efficient products and services.

Regional, state, and local actions like these are making a real contribution to reductions in our country's heat-trapping emissions, but they are no substitute for federal leadership. The United States is responsible for nearly one-fourth of global heat-trapping emissions, and our total heat-trapping emissions have increased 16 percent since 1990. Unless the federal government takes action today, emissions will increase nearly 40 percent more during the next 20 years, further increasing the impact of global climate change on our environment and public health.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Some rather interesting observations into the American problems and Deja Vu:

http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/12/far04041.html

December 7, 2004
"God Is With Us": Hitler's Rhetoric and the Lure of "Moral Values"

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Halva writes:

""No. Love those you love, be civilized with others, and ignore-list those that do not understand.

As far as the sexual harassment phenomena are concerned that Jim Phelps has pointed out. All this projection of private sexual themes into the "discussion", etc., addressing of other participants as if they were personal friends and even mistresses/lovers etc: this is truly psychopathic behaviour. It is inconceivable that any person with a tolerable personal life could, even for political motives, engage in behaviour of this kind. It shows too much disrespect for one's putative nearest and dearest.

Raynolds is bending credulity in seeking recognition as a political operative.""

==========

Halva,

I think if you have been following the US issues of sexual abuse and torture in the Iraq prisons, then you recognize this sex concept is one of continual humiliation to attempt to control others. It is part of the psych breakdown methods.

These concepts of sexual humiliations are the exclusive teachings of the Israel forces in Iraq to the US military. It is the methods of the Mossad and Mossad agents toward others they consider enemies.

I think you have made an extremely pertinent observavtion and follow through association.

IMHO,
is

[halva]

Jim Phelps wrote:

"Halva,

I think if you have been following the US issues of sexual abuse and torture in the Iraq prisons, then you recognize this sex concept is one of continual humiliation to attempt to control others. It is part of the psych breakdown methods.

These concepts of sexual humiliations are the exclusive teachings of the Israel forces in Iraq to the US military. It is the methods of the Mossad and Mossad agents toward others they consider enemies.

I think you have made an extremely pertinent observavtion and follow through association.

IMHO,
is"

-------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, but all this is just on the internet.

Raynolds might fantasise himself as a torturer, but all we have to do is press the delete button.

If he wants to torture people why doesn't he sign up to go and serve in Iraq? He could do it in real life there, which may be more dangerous for him, but I am sure it would give him a bigger kick.

Or perhaps it wouldn't.

Just as there are people who prefer masturbating over porn to real sexual contact.

Perhaps it is more fun being a torturer in one's one fantasy world and an anonymous but safe zero in real life.

[halva]

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=31&art_id=qw1102572181816B245

Europeans push to move against global warming

December 09 2004 at 12:04PM

Buenos Aires, Argentina - European participants at a UN global climate conference are leading discussions on ways to cut greenhouse emissions after 2012, looking beyond the timeframe laid out to curb global warming set by the Kyoto Protocol.

Yvo de Boer, the chief European Union negotiator, said Russia's recent ratification of the Kyoto Protocol had inspired the nearly 200 nations at the conference to consider a post-Kyoto framework to curtail the gases blamed for Earth's warming.

"The general sense is that the atmosphere has dramatically changed and dramatically improved as a result of Russian ratification of the Kyoto Protocol," de Boer said. "Where there was a great reluctance before the Russian ratification to begin any discussion towards the future, that situation has clearly changed."

Added Jaap Frederiks, another EU negotiator with the Dutch delegation: "The time has come to think about the next step. We've always said Kyoto is not enough. Kyoto is just a start," he said.

'The rest of the world wouldn't move forward'
The United States and Australia are the biggest industrialized country to have rejected the Kyoto Protocol, a landmark agreement that takes effect in February and requires 30 of the world's developed nations to reduce their output of heat-trapping gases produced by industry, automobiles and power plants.

Developing countries, facing possible emissions controls for the first time after 2012, have resisted opening talks about the "post-Kyoto" future. Under Kyoto, governments pledged new limits on emissions by industrial nations.

Russia last month ratified the accord in a major political boost that further highlighted the US opposition as one the biggest greenhouse gas polluters. But the US stance, which has rankled European allies, hung over the annual United Nations gathering even as governments began discussing what comes after Kyoto.

"The main thing Russian ratification brought about is confirmation that the Kyoto Protocol is a global institution, and the US really is the odd one out," said Frederiks.

A US climate negotiator, Harlan L Watson, said on Tuesday that the United States should not be considered an environmental villain by supporters of the Kyoto Protocol, arguing the Bush administration plans to spend $5-billion annually on research and technological development related to global warming.

Many scientists believe the gases seriously threaten life on Earth by causing a gradual rise in the planet's temperature. Global warming has been blamed for more violent storms, rising sea levels and shrinking animal habitats.

Filipe Duarte Santos, a scientist at Lisbon University in Portugal, released a study on the impact of climate change on that small European nation. He said the country lost 400 000 hectares to forest fires last year and is at an increased fire risk, among other impacts on water tables, fish stocks and wildlife habitats.

He said data shows globally that temperature have risen more than 0,6 degrees Centigrade in the past century, and "in the past 30 years there is a very clear signal of an increase in the average temperature."

The International Red Cross cited concerns that global warming could trigger bigger floods, storms and even deadly droughts in decades to come, particularly in developing countries. It said temperature increases forecast by some experts could cause greater weather-related disasters such as hurricanes and floods.

Developing nations such as typhoon-prone Vietnam and Nicaragua are on the alert. The International Red Cross warned that if temperatures rise according to projections, Vietnam's central region could expect 20 percent more rain during the monsoon season, while Nicaragua - where could be threatened by more deadly storms.

Other experts disagree and say the long-term impact of climate change is still not fully understood, and US officials have questioned the effectiveness of the Kyoto treaty in curbing greenhouse emissions.

Lee Hayes Byron, with the environmental coalition US Climate Action Network, noted that Kyoto's ratification by other nations is a sign that global warming is widely considered a serious threat and insisted the Bush administration was ignoring scientific data.

"The rest of the world wouldn't move forward with the (Kyoto) treaty unless it was based on sound science," said Hayes Byron. "No matter what research comes out, the Bush administration is not willing to reassess their policy. - Sapa-AP

[gaiacomm]

OK, we understand all of this...now what?

Where are the original thinkers?

[halva]

OK, we understand all of this...now what?

Where are the original thinkers?

I thought you were volunteering to be one of those.

[gaiacomm]

I thought you were volunteering to be one of those.


And you as well!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Halva,

You may be missing a few little items. So, allow me to remind you of this.

Mossad activities are a higher national security threat to the US than Al-Q. Do recall all those Mossad Art students in the US that helped all those that used the jet planes as flying bombs against the WTC and Pentagon. Some of those Art Students were arrested in New Jersey for having a party celebrating the attack on the WTC. Subsequently more than a hundred of these spies for Israel were arrested and deported from the US. The Mossad has considerable black mail abilities against the White House, or their detention stays would have been for life in prison.

These Israel Mossad spies knew all about the WTC attacks, all of them well ahead of time. They were living in and around those that attacked the WTC, often providing support. Mossad linked intel is associated with the timing of the WTC attacks to operation TRI_POD. Operation TRI-POD shut down the normal responses of jet fighters to commercial flight plan deviations. Such things don't happen via accident, only via lots of help.

The profilers go off on the activities here, and Canada did not deport their Mossad agents. "White Mossad Ma-gog" here fits a mossad profile. We have the extremes of sexual attacks toward anyone that opposes their needs to play god. We have them all over these jet issues again, even seeming to be all up in arms over another jet attack of some sort. Attacking people that expose the extended issues of chemtrails that have direct association to the existance and claims of the state of Isreal. We have all these questions on have you ever been to Israel and all these threats of black listing. And other threats like you don't know who you are messing with. These are the god like games of the Mossad types.

Mossad linked persons are considered extremely dangerous to the national security of the United States.

IMHO,
is

[halva]

I don't like to be dogmatic about whether Washington is a tool of Mossad or Mossad a tool of Washington.

[whitemajikman]

Halva,

You may be missing a few little items. So, allow me to remind you of this.

Mossad activities are a higher national security threat to the US than Al-Q. Do recall all those Mossad Art students in the US that helped all those that used the jet planes as flying bombs against the WTC and Pentagon. Some of those Art Students were arrested in New Jersey for having a party celebrating the attack on the WTC. Subsequently more than a hundred of these spies for Israel were arrested and deported from the US. The Mossad has considerable black mail abilities against the White House, or their detention stays would have been for life in prison.

These Israel Mossad spies knew all about the WTC attacks, all of them well ahead of time. They were living in and around those that attacked the WTC, often providing support. Mossad linked intel is associated with the timing of the WTC attacks to operation TRI_POD. Operation TRI-POD shut down the normal responses of jet fighters to commercial flight plan deviations. Such things don't happen via accident, only via lots of help.

The profilers go off on the activities here, and Canada did not deport their Mossad agents. "White Mossad Ma-gog" here fits a mossad profile. We have the extremes of sexual attacks toward anyone that opposes their needs to play god. We have them all over these jet issues again, even seeming to be all up in arms over another jet attack of some sort. Attacking people that expose the extended issues of chemtrails that have direct association to the existance and claims of the state of Isreal. We have all these questions on have you ever been to Israel and all these threats of black listing. And other threats like you don't know who you are messing with. These are the god like games of the Mossad types.

Mossad linked persons are considered extremely dangerous to the national security of the United States.

IMHO,
is


So Now In Jimbo's Mind I am Mossad.

Jim,how did you make the connection.......?

Was it your paranoia......?

or your hatred for Jews......?


Why can't you just come to terms with the facts that you are mentally unstable and a certifiable nutcase whom sees Mossad lurking in every shadow and blames Jews for everything that has ever gone wrong in the world.......

Jim your fear and paranoia is eating you up,bit by bit.......

You have almost left the realm of sanity behind..........

I find it hilarious that you have exposed yourself so much in the last few weeks,Layer by Layer.........

Remember when you first posted here.........

YOU were a self proclaimed whistleblower but the only thing that you knew how to do was blow more hot air.....


Now your just a raving delusional lunatic...........

WMM

[Yaak]

Because of Jimmy-Jerk Phelps's multiple ID's, threats, naming calling, and posting other peoples addresses and phone numbers, the Chemtrail Hoax thread was shut down at Tampa Bay IndyMedia. Way to go, Jimmy!

Jimmy's grand finale was a threat to one of their board administrators named Lara. Anybody that would say something like this is a real loser




Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dearest Lara,

I am sure you are very busy or you would have replied by now per the InduMedia suppression of free speech.

I am sure you have the necessary credentials for criminal accessment of your IndyMedia service. Would you please provide your state of registry and law license number for criminal law practice for us to review your credentials to provide this service to IndyMedia?

Also, your web site is suspected of hosting Mossad linked activities and Mossad is linked to National Security threats against the US. Please provide your ability and training for screening for Mossad activity on your services.

Please, comply with the requests. Or I am reasonably sure a call to the Feds. can make for your reporting compliance.

IMHO,
is
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






asshole

[halva]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56421-2004Dec10.html

Don't Discredit Climate Change
Saturday, December 11, 2004; Page A21

Juliet Eilperin's Dec. 2 news story on climate change, "Humans May Double the Risk of Heat Waves," is the latest example of the media's "he said, she said" treatment of what reputable scientists say is one of the greatest threats to the human race. Even worse, the article countered the findings of the world's top climate scientists by quoting an oil industry-funded economist. Such reporting is not credible, nor does it illuminate a subject of significant importance.

The article began by citing a peer-reviewed study published in the revered scientific journal Nature, which reported that the risk has more than doubled for the type of lethal heat wave responsible for 35,000 deaths in Europe last year. But the last half of the article is squandered on the views of Myron Ebell, an economist -- not a climate scientist -- whose "studies" at the American Enterprise Institute are funded by Exxon Mobil. The article fails to mention this shameless conflict of interest.

The problem with this type of reporting was highlighted at a recent Senate Commerce Committee hearing. Robert Correll, senior fellow at the American Meteorological Society, warned, "The trouble with a debate of this nature is you put 2,600 [scientists] against two or three or four [scientists who disagree]." Ebell is not in the same league as the qualified climate scientists who report that the climate is changing before our eyes; only the intensity and the speed of those changes are unknown. Your newspaper does an injustice to its readers by giving Ebell's caterwauling equal weight with the widely accepted views of reputable and unbiased scientists.

-- Frank R. Lautenberg

Washington

The writer is a Democratic senator from New Jersey.

[halva]

OK, we understand all of this...now what?

Where are the original thinkers?

Gaiacomm, in order for real focused debate to be possible, it has been necessary to remove it to places where chemtrail and climate change debunkers can not only not intervene in it but also not read it (or if they gain access, to do so only secretively so that they are inhibited from blowing their cover by subsequently intervening).

This is the way TBTB operate and it is the way anyone seriously aiming at constructing a political alternative must also operate.

There is no other way of silencing debunkers, which is the prerequisite for democracy, since democracy, unlike liberalism, is based on discourse among equals.

This is also the real message in Lautenberg's article, though as a Democrat politician he cannot act on the basis of the conclusions to which he points. He can only issue moral exhortations, presumably appealing to the "better instincts" of the disrupters he deplores.

[Yaak]

Why can't you just come to terms with the facts that you are mentally unstable and a certifiable nutcase.......


Jim your fear and paranoia is eating you up,bit by bit.......


You have almost left the realm of sanity behind..........


I find it hilarious that you have exposed yourself so much in the last few weeks,Layer by Layer.........


Now your just a raving delusional lunatic...........




*

[gaiacomm]

Gaiacomm, in order for real focused debate to be possible, it has been necessary to remove it to places where chemtrail and climate change debunkers can not only not intervene in it but also not read it (or if they gain access, to do so only secretively so that they are inhibited from blowing their cover by subsequently intervening).

This is the way TBTB operate and it is the way anyone seriously aiming at constructing a political alternative must also operate.

There is no other way of silencing debunkers, which is the prerequisite for democracy, since democracy, unlike liberalism, is based on discourse among equals.

This is also the real message in Lautenberg's article, though as a Democrat politician he cannot act on the basis of the conclusions to which he points. He can only issue moral exhortations, presumably appealing to the "better instincts" of the disrupters he deplores.


Yes I understand! Good points!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Per this comment:

Gaiacomm, in order for real focused debate to be possible, it has been necessary to remove it to places where chemtrail and climate change debunkers can not only not intervene in it but also not read it (or if they gain access, to do so only secretively so that they are inhibited from blowing their cover by subsequently intervening).

=======

I must say excellent idea and long overdue. May I suggest something like Topica List, which is easy to operate, free, and has excellent moderator controls to limit the spamming and trashing of discussions seen here.

Tropica also picks up on the seach engines, so the archived data can be picked up in search engines.

I would even be willing to run a Tropic list with such a heading, as I already have other lists.

IMHO,
is

[whitemajikman]

Per this comment:

Gaiacomm, in order for real focused debate to be possible, it has been necessary to remove it to places where chemtrail and climate change debunkers can not only not intervene in it but also not read it (or if they gain access, to do so only secretively so that they are inhibited from blowing their cover by subsequently intervening).

=======

I must say excellent idea and long overdue. May I suggest something like Topica List, which is easy to operate, free, and has excellent moderator controls to limit the spamming and trashing of discussions seen here.

Tropica also picks up on the seach engines, so the archived data can be picked up in search engines.

I would even be willing to run a Tropic list with such a heading, as I already have other lists.

IMHO,
is

LMAO...........

Running away so fast are we.........?

Whatever happened to that debate you wanted to have about the dangers of the Jewish Led Oil Producers.......?

Or how about the debate regarding Zionism......?


No Matter.....


Do what you do best............RUN from SCRUTINY............


WMM

[Yaak]

I see that the demented, bigoted, little twerp doesn't always run. Sometimes he's tossed out on his pointed ear like he was at the Tampa Bay IndyMedia forum. Isn't that right, Jimmy?

Do I understand correctly that you fools of mother nature are not going to perform in public anymore? Thanx for the entertainment. Adios!

[gaiacomm]

Per this comment:

Gaiacomm, in order for real focused debate to be possible, it has been necessary to remove it to places where chemtrail and climate change debunkers can not only not intervene in it but also not read it (or if they gain access, to do so only secretively so that they are inhibited from blowing their cover by subsequently intervening).

=======

I must say excellent idea and long overdue. May I suggest something like Topica List, which is easy to operate, free, and has excellent moderator controls to limit the spamming and trashing of discussions seen here.

Tropica also picks up on the seach engines, so the archived data can be picked up in search engines.

I would even be willing to run a Tropic list with such a heading, as I already have other lists.

IMHO,
is

Excellent post and info for good use!

[halva]

Per this comment:

Gaiacomm, in order for real focused debate to be possible, it has been necessary to remove it to places where chemtrail and climate change debunkers can not only not intervene in it but also not read it (or if they gain access, to do so only secretively so that they are inhibited from blowing their cover by subsequently intervening).

=======

I must say excellent idea and long overdue. May I suggest something like Topica List, which is easy to operate, free, and has excellent moderator controls to limit the spamming and trashing of discussions seen here.

Tropica also picks up on the seach engines, so the archived data can be picked up in search engines.

I would even be willing to run a Tropic list with such a heading, as I already have other lists.

IMHO,
is

Jim Phelps if you want to start a list of this kind I will register at it. I have said for ages that I would like this thread at Arianna's to be a notice board for news on climate change.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Gaia,

Speaking of free thinking Gaia. I want to pose a question to you, since you seem to be a blend of Hebrew / Islam minds. I don't want you to answer immediately, but take a number of days to thing about your answer before you comment.

The Question: If you were to address the Jewish / Arab problem, what would you be inclinded to do? Tie into the response that we all know the Jewish religion issue since the corruption of Moses commentary is one about men who would dare to play god. AKA, those of the Torah and Talmud. Get into land grabs, fair claims. Wars based upon false claims.

I am interested in your free thinking about outcomes or solutions. We all know one solution is the bible prophecy type things, another outcome is the forced march of the Bush NWO methodology, etc. Now, if you could design an optimum outcome, what would you dream?

I do think you might have to go a little deeper than just your comments on Love One Another, or We all live in one Big House. This has never stopped those with the greed for power or lust for money.

So, Gaia, let me hear some free thinking. I do mean deepest intellectual type coving all the factors.

IMHO,
is

[foot_soldier]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56421-2004Dec10.html

Don't Discredit Climate Change
Saturday, December 11, 2004; Page A21

Juliet Eilperin's Dec. 2 news story on climate change, "Humans May Double the Risk of Heat Waves," is the latest example of the media's "he said, she said" treatment of what reputable scientists say is one of the greatest threats to the human race. Even worse, the article countered the findings of the world's top climate scientists by quoting an oil industry-funded economist. Such reporting is not credible, nor does it illuminate a subject of significant importance.

The article began by citing a peer-reviewed study published in the revered scientific journal Nature, which reported that the risk has more than doubled for the type of lethal heat wave responsible for 35,000 deaths in Europe last year. But the last half of the article is squandered on the views of Myron Ebell, an economist -- not a climate scientist -- whose "studies" at the American Enterprise Institute are funded by Exxon Mobil. The article fails to mention this shameless conflict of interest.

The problem with this type of reporting was highlighted at a recent Senate Commerce Committee hearing. Robert Correll, senior fellow at the American Meteorological Society, warned, "The trouble with a debate of this nature is you put 2,600 [scientists] against two or three or four [scientists who disagree]." Ebell is not in the same league as the qualified climate scientists who report that the climate is changing before our eyes; only the intensity and the speed of those changes are unknown. Your newspaper does an injustice to its readers by giving Ebell's caterwauling equal weight with the widely accepted views of reputable and unbiased scientists.

-- Frank R. Lautenberg

Washington

The writer is a Democratic senator from New Jersey.
Correction:

While well-known climate change-debunker Myron Ebell's political agenda is in fact funded in no insignificant part by ExxonMobil, he does not work for the American Enterprise Institute. He works for the Competitive Enterprise Institute, a right-wing think tank devoted to "reframing of the environmental debate" for the benefit of industry and the corporate sector:

Competitive Enterprise Institute
http://www.cei.org/sections/section1.cfm

***

The AEI is also a right-wing think tank:

American Enterprise Institute
http://www.aei.org/

[gaiacomm]

Gaia,

Speaking of free thinking Gaia. I want to pose a question to you, since you seem to be a blend of Hebrew / Islam minds. I don't want you to answer immediately, but take a number of days to thing about your answer before you comment.

The Question: If you were to address the Jewish / Arab problem, what would you be inclinded to do? Tie into the response that we all know the Jewish religion issue since the corruption of Moses commentary is one about men who would dare to play god. AKA, those of the Torah and Talmud. Get into land grabs, fair claims. Wars based upon false claims.

I am interested in your free thinking about outcomes or solutions. We all know one solution is the bible prophecy type things, another outcome is the forced march of the Bush NWO methodology, etc. Now, if you could design an optimum outcome, what would you dream?

I do think you might have to go a little deeper than just your comments on Love One Another, or We all live in one Big House. This has never stopped those with the greed for power or lust for money.

So, Gaia, let me hear some free thinking. I do mean deepest intellectual type coving all the factors.

IMHO,
is


I understand and I will!

[hoot]

Hi, Wayne, Jim, and all; if you are going somewhere else remember to count me in!!! I probabally shouldn't post this here as our little bebunkers will run like hell back to their masters to tell them to plug this security hole, but I think that the cat is out of the bag now and it is a little too late. Seems like some by the book USAF environmental officers have not been "in the loop" and have been informing the EPA and NIH as to the elemental componates of the waste wash water they have been disposeing after they clean out the tanks of the "refueling" tanker fleet. Seems like the hydroscopic BARIUM picks up atmosheric moisture as the tanks empty and cakes up the works if they don't clean the tanks after every mission. These reports are public info and reveil a very interesting and deadly mix straight out of the nazi mind. The elemental componates of the waste breaks down to about 60% barium[heart disease]20% floride[mind dumbing]20%manganese[mad cow disease].5%lead[?contaminate]. WOW, what a fuel additive! Would post some direct links to this info, but would rather sit back and watch jr and white milk flap and yip a while.//////No info on the polymer componates in these reports, but the local wolverines have back tracked that to Building 1702 in the DOW complex in Midland Mi. TA TA ALL ____hoot____

[gaiacomm]

Gaia,

Speaking of free thinking Gaia. I want to pose a question to you, since you seem to be a blend of Hebrew / Islam minds. I don't want you to answer immediately, but take a number of days to thing about your answer before you comment.

The Question: If you were to address the Jewish / Arab problem, what would you be inclinded to do? Tie into the response that we all know the Jewish religion issue since the corruption of Moses commentary is one about men who would dare to play god. AKA, those of the Torah and Talmud. Get into land grabs, fair claims. Wars based upon false claims.

I am interested in your free thinking about outcomes or solutions. We all know one solution is the bible prophecy type things, another outcome is the forced march of the Bush NWO methodology, etc. Now, if you could design an optimum outcome, what would you dream?

I do think you might have to go a little deeper than just your comments on Love One Another, or We all live in one Big House. This has never stopped those with the greed for power or lust for money.

So, Gaia, let me hear some free thinking. I do mean deepest intellectual type coving all the factors.

IMHO,
is

Let us define the two as Hebrews and Arabs both at one time were polydomous in nature and were spilt into separate colonies by intrusions from outside influences and from the ignorance from within that was allowed to flourish. Once upon a time ago they both lived as one race sharing and exchanging both culture and goods with little sqmirsh. Those that did not follow the respective religious doctrine of the time for each group generally caused the wars and discord between the two.

The Lands were divided amongst the tribes through very well planned order and were accepted truths. Some say that Hammurabi had some later influence but in all it seemed that only a few were in control of the gifts given to man and women at the time.

The Hebrews and Arabs were at one time one nation, which made them very strong and difficult to rule. Their respective religious and social orders were their banners.

God gave us choices and we have been making them for each other without consent for centuries. But those that have the blessing of God can conquer the ones that wish to disrupt the foundation laid down by the one that controls the universe.
Vanity and deceit has ruled our planet for so long and it takes only a handful of those that are not afraid to die to redirect the course that the Hebrews and Arabs are in.

By removing the ones on both sides thru force is the only way to balance out the two and replacing that void with ones that is pure of heart. But this means being able to also destroy the core of the United States and remove its symbols. Love cannot exist in a cruel world but can after cruelty is removed. The conflict is not just isolated with the Hebrews and Arabs but with all of us who yearn for freedom and respect.

We must change from within first before we can change the outside. We must baptize ourselves with water and not with fire.

The land of this planet belongs to its people and not to a few.

The Bush Administration does not control the outcome of our lives but we do and only after we rid ourselves of our fears and become right with our respective Truth will we have Peace!

The conflict in the Middle East is just that and can be resolved if one can first remove the head of the snake of all countries and let the tails die then we all can become one nation with many nations within.

Remember its We the People!

[halva]

Hi, Wayne, Jim, and all; if you are going somewhere else remember to count me in!!! I probabally shouldn't post this here as our little bebunkers will run like hell back to their masters to tell them to plug this security hole, but I think that the cat is out of the bag now and it is a little too late. Seems like some by the book USAF environmental officers have not been "in the loop" and have been informing the EPA and NIH as to the elemental componates of the waste wash water they have been disposeing after they clean out the tanks of the "refueling" tanker fleet. Seems like the hydroscopic BARIUM picks up atmosheric moisture as the tanks empty and cakes up the works if they don't clean the tanks after every mission. These reports are public info and reveil a very interesting and deadly mix straight out of the nazi mind. The elemental componates of the waste breaks down to about 60% barium[heart disease]20% floride[mind dumbing]20%manganese[mad cow disease].5%lead[?contaminate]. WOW, what a fuel additive! Would post some direct links to this info, but would rather sit back and watch jr and white milk flap and yip a while.//////No info on the polymer componates in these reports, but the local wolverines have back tracked that to Building 1702 in the DOW complex in Midland Mi. TA TA ALL ____hoot____

Info on this has been posted at Megasprayer:
http://chem11.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=technosphere&action=display&num=1102564780

and at Rense.

[jayreynolds]

Gaiacomm, in order for real focused debate to be possible, it has been necessary to remove it to places where chemtrail and climate change debunkers can not only not intervene in it but also not read it (or if they gain access, to do so only secretively so that they are inhibited from blowing their cover by subsequently intervening).

This is the way TBTB operate and it is the way anyone seriously aiming at constructing a political alternative must also operate.

There is no other way of silencing debunkers, which is the prerequisite for democracy, since democracy, unlike liberalism, is based on discourse among equals..
Yes, Wayne Hall, drop all pretenses of democracy, of socialism, even. Go run away to your little stalinist utopia island and pretend to be "activists", all by yourselves...........

Debate among people who act alike, think alike, look alike, believe alike.
Sounds like a boring way to spend the winter days, but what the hell.
Makes perfect sense to me, after I consider what hell it must be to walk in your shoes.

Wayne, you lost.
You got what you had coming to you, what you deserved.
Get over it.
Run away if that's what you really need..
One good thing about all this, Wayne Hall and Deborah have found one helluva good freak act for your traveling side show. Perfect companions, Jim Phelps(aka: insurrectionchemistry) and Lance.Haubrick(akaGaiacomm, aka, Dr. Judah ben-Hur)
I hereby wed thee three, till death doth thou part.

[jayreynolds]

Wayne, there's going to be hell to pay when Chem11 sees this:
http://chem11.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=technosphere&action=display&num=1102564780

Can't say I didn't warn ye!

[halva]

I see that Raynolds has come back, presumably to argue the toss about chemtrails.

My posting the item on barium was not intended as a reopening of the chemtrails debate on this thread but simply as an informational response to hoot's post.

I can't read what Raynolds has written and I don't intend to change my settings so that I can.

[halva]

Latest from "The Independent". Note that as always, a controversial opponent role is still being offered to climate change "sceptics".

Warming world evident in our own backyards
By Geoffrey Lean
12 December 2004


Those who seek evidence of global warming need look no further than their backyards. The great British winter is melting away. Fourteen of the last 16 winters have been abnormally mild. Only 1995-96 was really cold, and the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit says the chances of another great freeze, as in 1963, are "vanishingly small".

No longer can one write of the English winter, as Byron did, "ending in July to recommence in August". Autumn is ending later, spring starting earlier. British birds breed an average of nine days sooner than in the 1950s; frogs mate up to seven weeks earlier. The growing season has increased by 24 days since 1970. Two-thirds of Europe's butterfly species have moved northwards, some by up to 150 miles.

As reported in The Independent on Sunday two weeks ago, the Inuit and other Arctic peoples have been literally lost for words at the arrival of robins, barn owls and other species for which they have no names. Flowers are blooming on the Antarctic peninsula, where average temperatures have risen by 9C in the past 50 years. The Arctic icecap has thinned by 40 per cent in 30 years. The 10 hottest years on record have all occurred since 1990.

As facts pile up, it is scepticism to global warming, rather than scenarios of a hotter world, that is becoming science fiction. Michael Crichton - who gave us Jurassic Park - is about to publish a new novel, State of Fear, attacking the "creepy" scientific consensus on climate change. As he arrived in Britain last week to promote the book, he needed only to look out of his hotel window to see the effects of global warming for himself.

[foot_soldier]

Re: Warming world evident in our own backyards:

.....Note that as always, a controversial opponent role is still being offered to climate change "sceptics".....
Yes, well - people must be kept entertained, eh?

[halva]

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/story.jsp?story=592330

Why the birds and bees think spring is here
Our flora and fauna are defying the calendar like never before. David Randall reports on unseasonal developments across the UK
12 December 2004


You can tell it's December. The bumblebees are dancing on the flowers, the frog spawn is filling the ponds, and the cherry blossom hangs heavy on the branch. This, so far, is the winter that never was.

All around Britain, another season of extraordinary mildness is producing phenomena that seem positively unnatural. On a roundabout in Oxfordshire blooms a carpet of daisies, from the Home Counties come reports of bumblebees raising a new generation, from a Kent churchyard there is news of lesser celandine in flower, normally a February bloom, and, in the East Midlands, newts have been seen returning to ponds.

These reports are from the UK Phenology Network, whose 12,000 recorders monitor such "events". As long as two weeks ago, the network's volunteers were reporting the first primrose of "spring", in Crawley, West Sussex; rooks nesting; snowdrops blooming in Hampshire before November was out; and frog spawn in Pembrokeshire, Britain's earliest ever sighting. Global warming means our flora and fauna are defying the calendar as never before.

The far-from-bleak season is evident in gardens, too. Daffodils are flowering in Cumbria; rose bushes in Hampshire still have full blooms; summer bedding like fuschia and pelargoniums are still going; and in London, shrubs such as hebe remain in flower, perennials such as nepeta show full flower spikes, and January bloomers such as winter jasmine have been smothered in canary yellow for weeks.

In Scotland, David Mitchell, curator of the Royal Botanic Gardens in Edinburgh, says: "I'm seeing trees that have only just dropped their leaves, I'm seeing shrubs coming into bud, and we haven't had a frost worth the name." Mr Mitchell attributes these strange signs to abnormally high soil temperatures, due to high atmospheric humidity and a lack of frost.

It was not supposed to be like this. In October, heavy crops of berries, plus an influx of waxwings (finch-like birds from Scandinavia), inspired doom-mongers and folklorists to predict that Britain was in for a fearfully cold winter.

Nick Collinson, conservation policy advisor for the Woodland Trust, key partners in UK Phenology, says global warming is far from an unmitigated blessing. "Quite apart from the plants that need frosts to crack open their seed cases and so germinate, things can get out of synch. A moth that depends on young oak leaves for its food might be able to adapt swiftly, given the oak leaves have appeared in time, but can the great tit that feeds its young on those moths' caterpillars?"

He points out that some animals only hibernate when temperatures dip below a certain mark. With autumn fruits coming earlier these days, a dormouse, for instance, may eat all its food before colder weather triggers hibernation. What does it do then? Humans, it seems, are not the only ones confused by our topsy-turvy seasons.

BUMBLE BEE

Bumblebees have been spotted in the Home Counties over-wintering and feeding the young of an autumn nest

WAXWING

Scandinavian waxwings have arrived in force, but, contrary to folklore, this does not herald a hard winter

DAFFODILS

Daffodils are well advanced all over the country, and, in one Cumbrian garden, have even burst into bloom

NEWT

Newts, which usually spend winter on land, have been seen returning to some ponds in the East Midlands

PRIMROSE

The first primrose sighting of 'spring' was reported two weeks ago by observers in West Sussex

FROGSPAWN

Nature-watchers in Pembrokeshire this month recorded Britain's earliest ever sighting of frog spawn

[jayreynolds]

Hey, good for Crichton. It will be made into a movie I'm sure and hopefully expose people like you. I willw rite him to be sure he knows about the "chemtrails" hoax and it's hangers-on who are piggy-backing their political, egotistical, and racial agendas through these hoaxes.
The truth is, the reality of human interactions make for much finer entertainment, once the details not ordinarily seen are revealed, than the fake public front that hoaxers try to present.
Time is long past due to expose this, and I can't think of anyone who will be able to do this more artfully than Michael Crichton. maybe it will become a televisoin series like the enormously popular "ER", which has been a ratings star since 1994.

Who do you think should play the parts of Deborah, Wayne Hall, and Jim Phelps?
.

Wayne, your very response to my post debunks the preposterous idea that you or Deborah would ever ignore any posts on this board, so stop pretending.
Everybody knows you enjoy getting your nose rubbed in it.

[gaiacomm]

Let us define the two as Hebrews and Arabs both at one time were polydomous in nature and were spilt into separate colonies by intrusions from outside influences and from the ignorance from within that was allowed to flourish. Once upon a time ago they both lived as one race sharing and exchanging both culture and goods with little sqmirsh. Those that did not follow the respective religious doctrine of the time for each group generally caused the wars and discord between the two.

The Lands were divided amongst the tribes through very well planned order and were accepted truths. Some say that Hammurabi had some later influence but in all it seemed that only a few were in control of the gifts given to man and women at the time.

The Hebrews and Arabs were at one time one nation, which made them very strong and difficult to rule. Their respective religious and social orders were their banners.

God gave us choices and we have been making them for each other without consent for centuries. But those that have the blessing of God can conquer the ones that wish to disrupt the foundation laid down by the one that controls the universe.
Vanity and deceit has ruled our planet for so long and it takes only a handful of those that are not afraid to die to redirect the course that the Hebrews and Arabs are in.

By removing the ones on both sides thru force is the only way to balance out the two and replacing that void with ones that is pure of heart. But this means being able to also destroy the core of the United States and remove its symbols. Love cannot exist in a cruel world but can after cruelty is removed. The conflict is not just isolated with the Hebrews and Arabs but with all of us who yearn for freedom and respect.

We must change from within first before we can change the outside. We must baptize ourselves with water and not with fire.

The land of this planet belongs to its people and not to a few.

The Bush Administration does not control the outcome of our lives but we do and only after we rid ourselves of our fears and become right with our respective Truth will we have Peace!

The conflict in the Middle East is just that and can be resolved if one can first remove the head of the snake of all countries and let the tails die then we all can become one nation with many nations within.

Remember its We the People!


Remember its We the People!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi,

Since there appears to be an interest in a proper decorum list, here is one to try out that I set up. So, there won't be sustained problems of the sort seen here.

It is set for membership by my approval and list members can view who is subscribed.
The list archive is initially set for only list members to view, or this can the changed to get the data into search engines. There can even be two lists, one with public archive and one not public. Just depends on all your ideas.

All who want to get on the list pass me (magnu96196@aol.com) your real email address and associated nick-name to get approved.

Obviously, Yaak, WhiteMagi, and Jay Reynolds are unwelcome by the list's decorum defintion, so don't even bother to ask.

IMHO,
is

===

List Name Climate Change and Chemtrails International Discussion List (Climate_Change)

Purpose: This is a news listing and discussion forum for those interested in exposing the topics of climate change, global warming, weather problems, climate modification using "chemtrail" like remediation methods. The List will provide a proper decorum for exchange of ideas and news for this hot topic of interest in the news these days. The list shall have zero tolerance with debunking type attempts on discussions of these issues.

List Type: Unmoderated discussion

Subscription: Requires owner approval

Archive: Readable by subscribers only

To Join: Subscribe here, or send an email to Climate_Change-subscribe@topica.com

To Post: Send mail to 'Climate_Change@topica.com'

[Yaak]

Hey Jimmy, with all of your ID's, you could keep a message board very active just talking to yourself. How many do you have here at Arianna's (as if I give a "Hoot")? I lost track (and I'm sure you did too) at Tampa Bay IndyMedia, but you must have had close to ten. You ended up arguing with yourself and looking darn foolish.

Seems to me that a person with a creative imagination could have some fun with the email addresses you gave. I know I'm going to.:lol:




^

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Crosslisting:


http://www.tampaindymedia.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=1762&sid=1346172c986f855e80f34acb3c6c7e44#1762

doewatch.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:25 am Post subject: Journalistic violations of protocal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greetings Parked-Stone, Charles, and Lara,

I am pleased to meet so many of IndyMedia's alledged passionate journalists.

As we continue the discussions into the current issues of what is irresponsible and not for a passionate media web site, these ideas come to mind. I have no doubt connected a large amount of IndyMedia bias toward self agrandizations for itself.

How else can we explain why the FBI had to come get some IndyMedia computers to look up who was listing illegal information exposing active agents. I do think the is called endangering agents and compromizing active case activities. Ever heard of that? Isn't it called IndyMedia irresponsibilty to host illegal information without reporting it to the authorities? Is this your level of responsibility here?

Was it not pure propaganda by IndyMedia in screaming all manner of false flag issues about the FBI's coming to get the illegal data off your computers? How better the outcome if IndyMedia had persons that reported such and handed over the information on illegal activities to the FBI in the first place?

Don't we see a large bias toward reporting non-truths on IndyMedia and more an unbalanced level of what is better termed media propaganda and tripe? IndiaMedia crying wolfe, when the only wolfe was their own carelessness. And the FBI coming to deal with it.

I would venture to say that if you three are the highest level of responsible actions to be seen at IndyMedia, then the FBI is going to be taking down your servers very often. I would even highly approve of them for doing so.


Now, lets do get into other zones of responsiblity. IndyMedia advertises discussions on varied topics. And a well run discussion board has moderators, especially when the topic are of passionate nature. In fact, responsible actions for IndyMedia would assign a moderator to each topic and the moderator would monitor the discussion daily. Plus, the moderators would be trained to spot information involving hate crimes, identity thefts, national security issues, posting of active agents photos and so on. What we saw from your three's level of responsiblity is Lara woke up one morning and decided to do a little work, then over reacts based upon her own lapses of failing to moderate or monitor the activity for some time.

Now, is it not interesting how you three have become the apologists for each other, hardly a balanced affair that shows any level of accountabilty of responsible action. It shows how poorly run the IndyMedia web site really is, and how inattentive you three are to addressing problems. Let alone dealing is responsible actions of reporting crimes on your site.



I sounds like the days of the main Journalist Credo for the publishing of controversial subjects was BALANCED INFORMATION from both viewpoints is long gone. Now, on IndyMedia the balance criteria appears to be something along the lines of presenting a balance is called "crap." Perhaps, the new credo for Journallistic criteria for IndyMedia must be propaganda.

IMHO,
is

Back to top


doewatch.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:39 am Post subject: Return to the scene of the crime

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Parkedstone, Frank, and Lara,

Now lets do take a look at the "identity theft" trail from Dec. 8 that remains from your cover-up. Someone stole the identity for "Jim Phelps" on your systems server for the express intent of damage. Jim Phelps is the inventor of the jet plane remediation criteria for climate change. Lara read the page, saw the complaints. Did she deal with the complaint?

Note:

====
http://www.tampaindymedia.org/phpbb2/memberlist.php?mode=joined&order=ASC&start=100

103 JJohnston17 08 Dec 2004 0
104 Jim Phelps 08 Dec 2004 1
105 Jobsite Theater Tampa, FL 09 Dec 2004 0

====

So, show us and tell us IndyMedia persons. Does this not violate the command of Lara to play nice in this forum? The person continues to identity theft of Jim Phelps' identity on your site.

Has IndyMedia dealt with the issue of this complaint properly or fully in just taking down the offending listing, but leaving up the clear identity theft item that resides right upon their web site?

Should we all term this IndyMedia being responsible or being their usually level of asleep?

Or should we all view it as the same level of attentiveness Indymedia deals with other crimes on its services?

IMHO,
is

[Insurrectionchemistry]

http://www.tampaindymedia.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=1763&sid=dbd291d1ebf2c171ab6bb5e86ddcc8df#1763

Greetings Parkedstone, Charles, and Lara,

It would appear that Lara correctly identified a huge problem in the discussions here and shut things down, but with the cavet that discussion can proceed. If the stuff stops. Now let us look at the stuff and how Indymedia has been rational or irrational in it operation.

So, lets look and see if IndyMedia is doing its job. It is well known all around the internet discussion forums that Jay Reynolds and his band of debunk followers have been banned from many chemtrail and climate change discussion lists. They were banned from discussion lists with real and live moderators. Discussion lists with daily moderators are more responsible that Indymedia's efforts it appears.

Should IndyMedia make the observation that there are more responsible was to host discussion forums? Should IndyMedia make and heed the lessons learned from other Forum discussion moderators?

Now, on this IndyMedia discussion site we have the recurrent problem of folks wanting to talk about Climate Change and associates to jet planes and chemtrails. Lara (an IndyMedia web service person even advertised it and established this discussion thread) even set it up and advertised discussions. Now Lara comes in as a reluctant and often missing Forum moderator. She sees the same type problems that have plagued literally dozens of climate change and chemtrails discussions lists and says stop the stuff.

Now, should Lara apply a simple common sense approach and look at the deductions of many other discussion forum operators, or just ignore it? A rational approach would take note that climate change and chemtrails is a passionate interest for large oil companies and even the US polocies. But, unless IndiaMedia wants to look like a facist supporter that allows all these disruptive methods to shut down those that want to discussion the issues, then it must address the varied complaints against those that intend to disrupt and the large concensus of list operators banning the real problem IPs.


Now, we need a IndyMedia person to evaluate this additional threat of one nicknamed "Yaak" to use varied faked up ID on this forum and others, see below:

===
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201109&posted=1#post201109

Yaak says:

Seems to me that a person with a creative imagination could have some fun with the email addresses you gave. I know I'm going to.

===

Lara, you must also take this type of thread into consideration for the complaint of Identity Theft on your site, when these same folks make claim toward using these methods.

Now, Lara, does this type statement tend to tell you that these usual suspects have ended their stuff on this forum or any other?

Should your dealing with these problems be consistent with other forum moderators findings?

Have you taken this into account here and done a rational follow up for decision processes?

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

Merry Christmas to you all!

Can we all share a Christmas moment with each other? Put our swords down and lets remember what our Christmas use to be like when we were children...on the night before.....

[Yaak]

Jimmy, no one could or would want to buy, steal or borrow any of your many, many, many ID's. That would be like having a bowel movement with your excrement.

Long ago, the very good people at Tampa Bay IndyMedia, were shown by you, that you are completely insane. Every time you post there they crack up with laughter. I used to pity you, but since you insist on continually making a public spectacle of yourself, I decided to allow myself to be amused by your antics.

Try to remember these two facts:
1. There are no such things as chemtrails.
2. Global warming is natural.



:D

[gaiacomm]

Merry Christmas to you all!

Can we all share a Christmas moment with each other? Put our swords down and lets remember what our Christmas use to be like when we were children...on the night before.....


Lets have Peace!

[gaiacomm]

While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable.

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By clicking Register below you agree to be bound by these conditions.

[gaiacomm]

Are you scared of truth?

http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml

[gaiacomm]

Merry Christmas All!

[halva]

Developing Giants Under Pressure on Climate Change

Mon Dec 13, 2:34 PM ET Science - Reuters

By Mary Milliken

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (Reuters) - While developing nations China, Brazil and India grow at break-neck pace with their burgeoning industry and farming, industrialized countries want them to clean up the dirty practices that have made them some of the world's biggest polluters.

China is the second producer of greenhouse gases, behind the United States, thanks to an industrial boom based on coal-burning energy. Brazil is estimated to be ranked sixth because of the carbon dioxide produced by the burning of the Amazon forest to clear land for soy, and India, also reliant on coal, is the fifth-largest source of the heat-trapping gases.

At the Dec. 6-17 U.N. conference on climate change in Buenos Aires, negotiators and activists aim to get developing countries on board for the next stage of reducing emissions after the Kyoto protocol concludes in 2012.

Developing countries were excluded from the 1997 Kyoto agreement because they argued that curbs on emissions would thwart much needed growth for their large, poor populations. Their exclusion was one of the reasons the United States declined to sign Kyoto.

But between 1990 and 2000, energy-related carbon dioxide emissions grew by 69 percent in India, 57 percent in Brazil and 33 percent in China.

"If India, China and Brazil replicate our pattern of fossil-intensive development, the game is over," said Alden Meyer, director of the U.S.-based Union of Concerned Scientists.

Steve Sawyer, climate and energy specialist for Greenpeace, says these countries need to "decarbonize" their economies and move toward cleaner energy and more efficient manufacturing.

"This will be one of the key features of a post-2012 regime," Sawyer said.

China and Brazil took a step forward at the conference by jointly presenting their inventories on greenhouse gas emissions. India did the same six months ago.

At the presentation Friday, Joke Waller-Hunter, executive secretary of the U.N. body dealing with climate change, called China and Brazil "two strong pillars of our climate change process."

GROWTH IS THEIR PRIORITY

But the developing nations are expected to stick together and put up a fight on any international initiative that might hit growth, their key to alleviating poverty.

Brazil's science and technology minister, Eduardo Campos, said last week that the responsibility of slowing global warming "substantially" falls on rich countries.

Diplomats here debate how to give the developing countries incentives to participate in a post-Kyoto deal. Curbs on emissions, like the five percent cut required of Kyoto countries by 2012, would put them off, as would trade sanctions.

Activists say the European Union (news - web sites), the leader in these climate change talks, holds the key to bringing them into the fold.

"The EU has to engage these countries and make it clear that they are not trying to impose measures that would hurt their economies," said Meyer.

Conference host country Argentina and the EU are pushing for an agreement specifically for developing countries -- a package of financial incentives and technology transfers to promote their adaptation to climate change.

That might be one of the few breakthroughs of this conference, marred by the United States' refusal to participate in the Kyoto protocol that goes into force in February or in any talks for after 2012.

[gaiacomm]

Merry Christmas! Do you remember when you all were like this? So innocent and pure!
What happened? We can all go back and be that way again if we choose!

[Yaak]

Jimmy receives a well deserved bitch-slapping at Tampa Bay IndyMedia

http://www.tampaindymedia.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=441&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30&sid=5f8e07efa4606ed386121e57048f016f

Way to go, Jimmy.!:D



doewatch.com,

what is the deal with your obsession with chemtrails? why are you so intent on having a discussion about them? why are you threatening the TBIMC over removal of chemtrail articles/discussions?

this site is not obligated to tolerate anything that it does not want to tolerate, that includes articles and discussions that are:
-concerning a topic that can never be proved or disproved
-escalating to the point of abusive behavior
-not going anywhere

You are free to speak your mind all you want. This is America after all. However, TBIMC is not obligated to allow you to speak your mind here. If you are unhappy with the way your message is treated, take it somewhere else. This site owes you nothing.

[whitemajikman]

Developing Giants Under Pressure on Climate Change

Mon Dec 13, 2:34 PM ET Science - Reuters

By Mary Milliken

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (Reuters) - While developing nations China, Brazil and India grow at break-neck pace with their burgeoning industry and farming, industrialized countries want them to clean up the dirty practices that have made them some of the world's biggest polluters.

China is the second producer of greenhouse gases, behind the United States, thanks to an industrial boom based on coal-burning energy. Brazil is estimated to be ranked sixth because of the carbon dioxide produced by the burning of the Amazon forest to clear land for soy, and India, also reliant on coal, is the fifth-largest source of the heat-trapping gases.

At the Dec. 6-17 U.N. conference on climate change in Buenos Aires, negotiators and activists aim to get developing countries on board for the next stage of reducing emissions after the Kyoto protocol concludes in 2012.

Developing countries were excluded from the 1997 Kyoto agreement because they argued that curbs on emissions would thwart much needed growth for their large, poor populations. Their exclusion was one of the reasons the United States declined to sign Kyoto.

But between 1990 and 2000, energy-related carbon dioxide emissions grew by 69 percent in India, 57 percent in Brazil and 33 percent in China.

"If India, China and Brazil replicate our pattern of fossil-intensive development, the game is over," said Alden Meyer, director of the U.S.-based Union of Concerned Scientists.

Steve Sawyer, climate and energy specialist for Greenpeace, says these countries need to "decarbonize" their economies and move toward cleaner energy and more efficient manufacturing.

"This will be one of the key features of a post-2012 regime," Sawyer said.

China and Brazil took a step forward at the conference by jointly presenting their inventories on greenhouse gas emissions. India did the same six months ago.

At the presentation Friday, Joke Waller-Hunter, executive secretary of the U.N. body dealing with climate change, called China and Brazil "two strong pillars of our climate change process."

GROWTH IS THEIR PRIORITY

But the developing nations are expected to stick together and put up a fight on any international initiative that might hit growth, their key to alleviating poverty.

Brazil's science and technology minister, Eduardo Campos, said last week that the responsibility of slowing global warming "substantially" falls on rich countries.

Diplomats here debate how to give the developing countries incentives to participate in a post-Kyoto deal. Curbs on emissions, like the five percent cut required of Kyoto countries by 2012, would put them off, as would trade sanctions.

Activists say the European Union (news - web sites), the leader in these climate change talks, holds the key to bringing them into the fold.

"The EU has to engage these countries and make it clear that they are not trying to impose measures that would hurt their economies," said Meyer.

Conference host country Argentina and the EU are pushing for an agreement specifically for developing countries -- a package of financial incentives and technology transfers to promote their adaptation to climate change.

That might be one of the few breakthroughs of this conference, marred by the United States' refusal to participate in the Kyoto protocol that goes into force in February or in any talks for after 2012.


Has any of you ...........

Considered why The EU has been pushing for the Kyoto protocol............?

And I mean Politically not Environmentally........

And Why Is Wayne Hall always promoting the NWO..........

Or could it be that he has it all backwards.......and thinks that he is actually fighting the NWO............

HMMMMMMMMMMMM

WMM

[gaiacomm]

Merry Christmas! Do you remember when you all were like this? So innocent and pure!
What happened? We can all go back and be that way again if we choose!

[Yaak]

Merry Christmas! Do you remember when you all were like this? So innocent and pure! What happened? We can all go back and be that way again if we choose!

Merry Christmas to you too, Gaiacomm.

We would all act childish if we went back. Isn't one of me enough? :D

[Insurrectionchemistry]

http://www.livescience.com/forcesofnature/041214_tsunami_mega.html


Could Global Warming
Trigger Mega-Tsunamis?
By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer
LiveScience.com
12-14-4

SAN FRANCISCO -- Volcanic landslides that generate huge and devastating tsunamis tend to occur during historically warmer times on Earth, a new study suggests. Scientists don't know exactly why, but since the global climate is warming as you read this, the apparent connection was tossed out this week as a reason for scientists to be concerned about the threat now.

Tsunamis are waves that race across the ocean without much fanfare but grow to frightening proportions when they reach land. The waves are deep, and while they may appear just a few inches or feet tall on the open ocean, they can soar to the height of a multi-story building as they are forced upward near the shore.

A tsunami can be generated by the sudden uplift of the seafloor in an earthquake, or by the paddle-like effect of a landslide crashing into the sea from, say, an island volcano. Yet while quake-generated tsunamis have been observed from their genesis to the disastrous end, scientists have never witnessed a significant open-ocean tsunami generated by a landslide.

Evidence exists at various locations around the world for megatsunamis, as scientists call the largest of these events. They seem to occur every 100,000 years or so, said Gary McMurtry of the University of Hawaii.

These monsters can be hundreds of feet tall and, depending on local topography, race miles inland.

One controversial event, about 110,000 years ago, appeared to create a 1,600-foot wave in Hawaii. Yes, you read that right: Nearly one-third of a mile, or about half a kilometer.

But the evidence -- marine fossils way up there where there's no sea -- is controversial. Perhaps the islands have been rising and carried the fossils up, critics suggest.

McMurtry's team looked at marine fossils at the Kohala volcano on the main island of Hawaii, which is known to be sinking about an inch per decade. The fossils simply could not have started at a lower elevation, McMurtry said Monday at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union held here. A submarine landslide from the giant Mauna Loa volcano has been dated to the same time and, the thinking goes, caused the tsunami.

McMurtry and his colleagues also re-examined evidence for a tsunami that may have struck Bermuda and other locations in the Atlantic 420,000 years ago.

Scientists agree that submarine landslides caused by the collapse of island volcanoes -- think of the destruction of Mount St. Helens -- could generate these megatsunamis. Evidence for such landslides can be found in topography scans of seafloors around various island volcanoes, McMurtry points out.

"These giant landslides seem to occur during periods of higher than normal sea level -- like we have now," he said.

High sea levels tend to correspond with wetter climates, he said. What this has to do with landslides is not known. But perhaps, McMurtry figures, excess rainfall can serve as a trigger for the cleaving of a volcano-in-waiting.

That might all sound like a lot of logic leaps, and McMurtry is the first to admit there isn't enough data to figure out whether global warming and tsunamis are correlated. But there is some independent thinking that supports the notion.

Peter Cervelli, of the Alaska Volcano Observatory, has studied the Hawaiian volcanoes and is not involved in McMurtry's work. Cervelli said it's possible that water during extended wet periods seeps down into natural faults on the flanks of a volcano -- volcanoes are known to be more porous than other land areas -- precipitating a collapse by "bringing it closer to failure."

And in other work, Emily Brodsky of the University of California, Los Angeles has modeled the friction involved in huge volcanic landslides. She agrees that it's possible that higher rainfall amounts could make a precarious situation more slippery.

So should we worry? "Maybe," says McMurtry. He thinks that a tsunami, which can race across an entire ocean in a matter of hours, is a real threat to urbanized coastlines. Other experts agree that a large tsunami would be bad news for, say, Los Angeles or New York City. And tsunamis are not parochial. One originating in Alaska in 1964 killed people in California and generated damaging surges clear down in Chile.

McMurtry believes the threat is greater than from an asteroid impact, but asteroid research has managed to lure more funding. More money should be spent to monitor the stability of oceanic volcanoes, McMurtry argues.

"Mauna Loa is as big as it's ever been, so the energy is there" for a giant submarine landslide, McMurtry said. He's even attached some odds to the threat: "The probability of a megatsunami in Hawaii in the next 10,000 years is about 50 percent."

[gaiacomm]

Merry Christmas to you too, Gaiacomm.

We would all act childish if we went back. Isn't one of me enough? :D

Thank you! May you have peace in your family!

[halva]

Thank you! May you have peace in your family!

Bah!!! Humbug!!!

[halva]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4096591.stm

Climate talks bogged down in detail
By Tim Hirsch
BBC environment correspondent in Buenos Aires

Picture
(UN jargon often makes little sense to those outside the process)

As climate experts warn of ever more dire consequences from the impact of global warming, negotiators at the UN climate change conference in Buenos Aires are bogged down in arguments over seminar agendas and who gets to sit where in future discussions.
The annual talks of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change have always shown a remarkable capacity to descend into seemingly endless discussion of process.

This is made utterly incomprehensible to outside observers by a special language of acronyms and jargon known only to the delegates.

It is common to overhear earnest conversations which go something as follows: "Did you hear the CDM SBSTA discussions on COP MOP 1? The G77 are worried about protocol issues in the convention - but we really have to delink adaptation from response measures."

Occasionally someone is brave enough to sum up the proceedings in plain language.

Yvo de Boer, the urbane Dutch civil servant with impeccable English who has been heading the European Union delegation at this meeting, told one news conference: "We are talking about talks about talks."

Search for common ground

The talks in question centre on what happens after 2012, when the targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions under the Kyoto agreement expire.

With that agreement finally coming into legal force in February - seven years after it was negotiated in Japan - many countries feel no time should be lost in discussing its successor.

China's staple diet will suffer from the effects of global warming

This is partly because the average emission cuts of 5.2% from industrialised countries are widely seen as a very modest start to a meaningful effort to reduce human interference with the climate.

The Argentine organisers of this conference have proposed a series of seminars in the course of 2005, ahead of more formal discussions in a year's time on longer-term action.

Pretty uncontroversial you might think, but government representatives have been struggling for more than a week to find common ground on the remit of the seminars, how many there should be and where they should take place.

With the US still resolutely refusing to take part in Kyoto, the Americans want the discussions simply to be a review of the action taken by governments to curb emissions.

Others, such as the EU, insist they must look ahead to the future.

That has not stopped environmental groups here from castigating the Europeans for "bending over backwards" to accommodate the Bush administration by proposing a format for the talks that would allow the US to be involved.

Likely impact

And the Americans have been complaining that they will be locked out of some of the formal meetings discussing the mechanics of implementing the targets set by Kyoto.

Because they have not ratified the protocol, they will be allocated "observer status" at these discussions.

US negotiator Harlan Watson bitterly complained that this would involve watching them by video link rather than being allowed to sit at the table.

Some of the other participants think this is rather like someone who did everything possible to wreck a party insisting on being given an invitation.

Amongst all this bickering, a report released by the European Climate Forum, with the backing of the leading insurance company Munich Re, listed some of the impacts likely to emerge if global temperatures were allowed to rise by more than 2 degrees centigrade.

That could only be prevented with measures far beyond those being proposed.

The report estimates that a rise of between 2.5 and 3 degrees could reduce rice yield in China by up to a fifth.

In Peru, the melting of Andean glaciers could threaten both the water supply of the capital Lima and power generation which is heavily dependent on hydro-electricity.

For the moment though, the talk is still about the talks about talks. And they keep talking.

[foot_soldier]

.....Others, such as the EU, insist they must look ahead to the future.....
Good idea. It's time to move on past the bogus political obstacles and get down to solving the problems. The Europeans are already way ahead of the U.S. in this regard and they ought to just keep going. They don't need us.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/print/0%2C1478%2C3099128a10%2C00.html


Human extinction within 100 years warns scientist

17 NOVEMBER 2004

By JOHN HENZELL
A top New Zealand researcher is using a prestigious award ceremony in
Christchurch to warn that humans face extinction by the end of the century.

Professor Peter Barrett will be presented with the Marsden Medal tonight for
his 40-year contribution to Antarctic research, latterly focusing on climate
change.

The director of Victoria University's Antarctic Research Centre expects to
use his acceptance speech to warn climate change was a major threat to the
planet.

"After 40 years, I'm part of a huge community of scientists who have become
alarmed with our discovery, that we know from our knowledge of the ancient
past, that if we continue our present growth path, we are facing extinction,"
Barrett said. "Not in millions of years, or even millennia, but by the end of this
century."

Barrett won the award – designed to mark lifetime achievement in the sciences
– for his research into Antarctica, which began with helping prove New
Zealand was once part of the Gondwanaland supercontinent.

He then changed disciplines, to predicting the impact of climate change. The
result was a body of research on Antarctic ice sheets "which to our surprise
is becoming increasingly relevant to the world as a consequence of global
warming".

Barrett's warning underlines comments he made last year that even the Kyoto
Protocol on global warming would not be enough to avert a climate disaster. The
United States and Australia have refused to adopt Kyoto protocol measures.

"Research on the past Antarctic climate has an ominous warning for the future
..." he said.

"We need an international commitment to an effective solution, if we are to
survive the worst consequences of this grandest of all human experiments."

[gaiacomm]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4096591.stm

Climate talks bogged down in detail
By Tim Hirsch
BBC environment correspondent in Buenos Aires

Picture
(UN jargon often makes little sense to those outside the process)

As climate experts warn of ever more dire consequences from the impact of global warming, negotiators at the UN climate change conference in Buenos Aires are bogged down in arguments over seminar agendas and who gets to sit where in future discussions.
The annual talks of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change have always shown a remarkable capacity to descend into seemingly endless discussion of process.

This is made utterly incomprehensible to outside observers by a special language of acronyms and jargon known only to the delegates.

It is common to overhear earnest conversations which go something as follows: "Did you hear the CDM SBSTA discussions on COP MOP 1? The G77 are worried about protocol issues in the convention - but we really have to delink adaptation from response measures."

Occasionally someone is brave enough to sum up the proceedings in plain language.

Yvo de Boer, the urbane Dutch civil servant with impeccable English who has been heading the European Union delegation at this meeting, told one news conference: "We are talking about talks about talks."

Search for common ground

The talks in question centre on what happens after 2012, when the targets for cutting greenhouse gas emissions under the Kyoto agreement expire.

With that agreement finally coming into legal force in February - seven years after it was negotiated in Japan - many countries feel no time should be lost in discussing its successor.

China's staple diet will suffer from the effects of global warming

This is partly because the average emission cuts of 5.2% from industrialised countries are widely seen as a very modest start to a meaningful effort to reduce human interference with the climate.

The Argentine organisers of this conference have proposed a series of seminars in the course of 2005, ahead of more formal discussions in a year's time on longer-term action.

Pretty uncontroversial you might think, but government representatives have been struggling for more than a week to find common ground on the remit of the seminars, how many there should be and where they should take place.

With the US still resolutely refusing to take part in Kyoto, the Americans want the discussions simply to be a review of the action taken by governments to curb emissions.

Others, such as the EU, insist they must look ahead to the future.

That has not stopped environmental groups here from castigating the Europeans for "bending over backwards" to accommodate the Bush administration by proposing a format for the talks that would allow the US to be involved.

Likely impact

And the Americans have been complaining that they will be locked out of some of the formal meetings discussing the mechanics of implementing the targets set by Kyoto.

Because they have not ratified the protocol, they will be allocated "observer status" at these discussions.

US negotiator Harlan Watson bitterly complained that this would involve watching them by video link rather than being allowed to sit at the table.

Some of the other participants think this is rather like someone who did everything possible to wreck a party insisting on being given an invitation.

Amongst all this bickering, a report released by the European Climate Forum, with the backing of the leading insurance company Munich Re, listed some of the impacts likely to emerge if global temperatures were allowed to rise by more than 2 degrees centigrade.

That could only be prevented with measures far beyond those being proposed.

The report estimates that a rise of between 2.5 and 3 degrees could reduce rice yield in China by up to a fifth.

In Peru, the melting of Andean glaciers could threaten both the water supply of the capital Lima and power generation which is heavily dependent on hydro-electricity.

For the moment though, the talk is still about the talks about talks. And they keep talking.


Blah.....Blah....Blah....


Worthless information that you can do nothing about except cut and paste and inform,,,period!

No hard feelings but the internet is vast and we all can read and research on our own. But if it makes you feel important to point us a new direction then by all means continue....we will be waiting and watching!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20041214143809990004&_mpc=news%
2e6&cid=842


Cuts in Carbon Dioxide Emissions Urged
By CHARLES J. HANLEY, AP

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (Dec. 14) -- The world's chief climate scientist on
Tuesday disputed the U.S. government contention that cutbacks in carbon dioxide
emissions are not yet warranted to check global warming.


Experts readied a report, meanwhile, saying 2004 will be one of the warmest
years on record.

''The science says you've got to reduce emissions,'' Rajendra K. Pachauri
told The Associated Press in an interview midway through a two-week international
climate conference.

The Kyoto Protocol, the international accord requiring cuts in carbon
dioxide, ''is driven by the need to reduce emissions, and on that there is no
question,'' said Pachauri, chairman of a U.N.-sponsored network of climatologists.

Scientists largely blame the accumulation of carbon dioxide and other
''greenhouse gases'' in the atmosphere for the rising temperatures of the past
century.

The 10 warmest years globally, since records were first kept in the 19th
century, have all occurred since 1990, the top three since 1998. Specialists here
this week will issue a report saying 2004 ranks as the fourth- or
fifth-warmest year recorded.

Conference delegates from dozens of nations are fine-tuning the workings of
the Kyoto pact, which takes effect Feb. 16. It sets targets for 30 industrial
nations - excluding the nonparticipating United States and Australia - to
reduce emissions of six greenhouse gases, most importantly carbon dioxide, a
byproduct of coal, oil and gasoline use.

The United States is a member of the umbrella U.N. treaty on climate change,
and it signed that treaty's Kyoto Protocol in 1997. But President Bush
renounced the Kyoto agreement in 2001, saying emission reductions would hurt the U.S.
economy.




Before leaving for the annual climate-treaty talks, U.S. negotiator Harlan
Watson told reporters in Washington that the United States - the world's biggest
emitter of carbon dioxide - would eventually stop the growth in its emissions
''as the science justifies.'' After arriving here, he said the Kyoto
Protocol's approach was ''not based on science.''

Asked about Watson's statements, Pachauri was emphatic.

''The science says you've got to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases. The
science says you've got to stabilize concentrations of greenhouse gases in the
atmosphere,'' he said. ''What may be subject to uncertainty and subject to
debate is who is to reduce how much.''

As chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the Indian
scientist oversees the work of hundreds of specialists who regularly assess the
latest research on climate change and its likely effects.

In its last major report, in 2001, the panel projected that global
temperatures in the 21st century would increase by 3 to 10 degrees, depending on many
factors, including how quickly and deeply gas emissions were cut back.

Warming is predicted to cause greater extremes in temperature, and possibly
dry out farmlands, stir up fiercer storms and raise ocean levels, among other
impacts, the panel said. At the conference Tuesday, European scientists said
even an additional 2 degrees might threaten South American water supplies and
reduce Asian food yields.

One of the world's leading climate institutes, the British government's
Hadley Center, issued a report at the conference Tuesday on work done to narrow the
uncertainties, by running many dozens more model scenarios through its
supercomputers.


It said temperatures would most likely rise by an additional 5 degrees by
later this century if the carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere doubles
from its pre-industrial levels - a probable scenario if emissions are not
controlled.

Pachauri said the evidence of change is everywhere - in the doubling of
extreme weather events recorded by the World Meteorological Organization, in the
melting of glaciers worldwide, and in the one-degree global temperature rise of
the past century.

''The evidence is so strong, the observations so strong, it's very difficult
to close your eyes to it,'' he said. ''I was born in the mountains in India.
I've seen the kinds of changes that have taken place with snow cover, with the
seasons, with the extent of warming, precipitation patterns, the impact on
forests.''


Delegations at the conference are searching for ways to bring the United
States into the Kyoto process and acceptance of mandatory reductions in gases.
Besides the economic argument, Bush complained that some poor but rapidly
industrializing nations, such as China and India, were not obligated by Kyoto's
short-term targets.

Pachauri said he was heartened by the actions of individual U.S. states,
particularly in the U.S. Northeast, to impose carbon-dioxide reductions on power
plants, for example.

''I think the next round of action will only come from an acceptance of the
science,'' he said.


AP-NY-12-14-04 21:01 EST

===

poll:

Is the United States doing enough to combat the threat of global warming?
No 76%
Yes 16%
I Don't Know 7%
Total Votes: 25,491

[gaiacomm]

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20041214143809990004&_mpc=news%
2e6&cid=842


Cuts in Carbon Dioxide Emissions Urged
By CHARLES J. HANLEY, AP

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (Dec. 14) -- The world's chief climate scientist on
Tuesday disputed the U.S. government contention that cutbacks in carbon dioxide
emissions are not yet warranted to check global warming.


Experts readied a report, meanwhile, saying 2004 will be one of the warmest
years on record.

''The science says you've got to reduce emissions,'' Rajendra K. Pachauri
told The Associated Press in an interview midway through a two-week international
climate conference.

The Kyoto Protocol, the international accord requiring cuts in carbon
dioxide, ''is driven by the need to reduce emissions, and on that there is no
question,'' said Pachauri, chairman of a U.N.-sponsored network of climatologists.

Scientists largely blame the accumulation of carbon dioxide and other
''greenhouse gases'' in the atmosphere for the rising temperatures of the past
century.

The 10 warmest years globally, since records were first kept in the 19th
century, have all occurred since 1990, the top three since 1998. Specialists here
this week will issue a report saying 2004 ranks as the fourth- or
fifth-warmest year recorded.

Conference delegates from dozens of nations are fine-tuning the workings of
the Kyoto pact, which takes effect Feb. 16. It sets targets for 30 industrial
nations - excluding the nonparticipating United States and Australia - to
reduce emissions of six greenhouse gases, most importantly carbon dioxide, a
byproduct of coal, oil and gasoline use.

The United States is a member of the umbrella U.N. treaty on climate change,
and it signed that treaty's Kyoto Protocol in 1997. But President Bush
renounced the Kyoto agreement in 2001, saying emission reductions would hurt the U.S.
economy.




Before leaving for the annual climate-treaty talks, U.S. negotiator Harlan
Watson told reporters in Washington that the United States - the world's biggest
emitter of carbon dioxide - would eventually stop the growth in its emissions
''as the science justifies.'' After arriving here, he said the Kyoto
Protocol's approach was ''not based on science.''

Asked about Watson's statements, Pachauri was emphatic.

''The science says you've got to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases. The
science says you've got to stabilize concentrations of greenhouse gases in the
atmosphere,'' he said. ''What may be subject to uncertainty and subject to
debate is who is to reduce how much.''

As chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the Indian
scientist oversees the work of hundreds of specialists who regularly assess the
latest research on climate change and its likely effects.

In its last major report, in 2001, the panel projected that global
temperatures in the 21st century would increase by 3 to 10 degrees, depending on many
factors, including how quickly and deeply gas emissions were cut back.

Warming is predicted to cause greater extremes in temperature, and possibly
dry out farmlands, stir up fiercer storms and raise ocean levels, among other
impacts, the panel said. At the conference Tuesday, European scientists said
even an additional 2 degrees might threaten South American water supplies and
reduce Asian food yields.

One of the world's leading climate institutes, the British government's
Hadley Center, issued a report at the conference Tuesday on work done to narrow the
uncertainties, by running many dozens more model scenarios through its
supercomputers.


It said temperatures would most likely rise by an additional 5 degrees by
later this century if the carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere doubles
from its pre-industrial levels - a probable scenario if emissions are not
controlled.

Pachauri said the evidence of change is everywhere - in the doubling of
extreme weather events recorded by the World Meteorological Organization, in the
melting of glaciers worldwide, and in the one-degree global temperature rise of
the past century.

''The evidence is so strong, the observations so strong, it's very difficult
to close your eyes to it,'' he said. ''I was born in the mountains in India.
I've seen the kinds of changes that have taken place with snow cover, with the
seasons, with the extent of warming, precipitation patterns, the impact on
forests.''


Delegations at the conference are searching for ways to bring the United
States into the Kyoto process and acceptance of mandatory reductions in gases.
Besides the economic argument, Bush complained that some poor but rapidly
industrializing nations, such as China and India, were not obligated by Kyoto's
short-term targets.

Pachauri said he was heartened by the actions of individual U.S. states,
particularly in the U.S. Northeast, to impose carbon-dioxide reductions on power
plants, for example.

''I think the next round of action will only come from an acceptance of the
science,'' he said.


AP-NY-12-14-04 21:01 EST

===

poll:

Is the United States doing enough to combat the threat of global warming?
No 76%
Yes 16%
I Don't Know 7%
Total Votes: 25,491


Blah.....Blah....Blah....


Worthless information that you can do nothing about except cut and paste and inform,,,period!

No hard feelings but the internet is vast and we all can read and research on our own. But if it makes you feel important to point us a new direction then by all means continue....we will be waiting and watching!

[halva]

Yes. It makes us feel important.

Does posting Christmas messages make you feel important?

[jayreynolds]

Yes. It makes us feel important.

Wayne Hall, nothing you or Deborah Stark(footsoldier)can ever post on this forum will have any importance. Your spokesman Jim Phelps has seen to that already. I am soooo glad he came out of his closet and showed the world what abunch of racist deluded ignorant people follow in your footsteps. His words, adn your encouraging him into ever-more intense racist ranting are now archived and accessible worldwide for posterity.
I thank you both very much for finally being honest and letting us know how much you support Jim Phelps and everything he says, even if they are insane rantings of a racist monomaniac.
That was probably the best Christmas present you could have given me..

[gaiacomm]

Yes. It makes us feel important.

Does posting Christmas messages make you feel important?


Yes it does!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

http://rense.com/general60/globalwarmingmeltsdreams.htm

Global Warming Melts Dreams Of A White Christmas
By Marc Morano
Senior Staff Writer
CNSNews.com
12-15-4

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (CNSNews.com) - The British government released a new
climate analysis this week alleging that white Christmases in England will be
just a memory unless global warming is halted.

According to an analysis by British Environment Minister Elliot Morley,
( http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/ministers/morley.htm )
England is 65 percent less likely to have a white Christmas in the year 2050
due to the effects of global warming.

Coastal areas of England will be 90 percent less likely to see any snow by
the year 2080. Morely is attending the UN climate summit in Buenos Aires.

Norman Baker, the British Parliament's Liberal Democrat environment
spokesman, summed up the analysis this way:

( http://www.libdems.org.uk/index.cfm
/page.homepage/section.home/article.7943 )

"Britons will soon be left with only dreams of a white Christmas, as the
chances of it actually happening become more remote."

Despite the fact that London has experienced only six white Christmases in
the past 45 years, Baker said any future lack of snow could be blamed on only
one factor. "Global warming is the main reason for this shift in seasonal
weather and is responsible for changing the world as we know it," Baker said.

But William O'Keefe of the Washington-based George Marshall Institute said no
one should stop dreaming of a white Christmas - "just like the ones they used
to know" -- based on the new British study.

"The 65 percent probability that white Christmases will disappear in London
is one hundred percent wrong," O'Keefe told CNSNews.com. The Marshall
Institute, which "encourages the use of sound science in making public policy," takes a
skeptical view of alarmist global warming.

"The British analysis is a compilation of fiction. There is no science and no
scientific basis for those projections," said O'Keefe, who is attending the
U.N. summit here.

"They (the projections) are pure speculation, which get credibility because
they are run through computer models that have never been validated
scientifically," O'Keefe explained.

But Britain's Baker believes the analysis should prompt a call to action on
climate change.

"It is not only Christmas that will be affected. In the New Year we can
expect more of the extreme weather, floods and gales suffered across the Continent
this year. This is a global issue, but the government needs to make reducing
greenhouse gases one of its top New Year's resolutions," Baker said.

But O'Keefe noted that many alarmist climate-change claims have proven
contradictory.

"The world has gone through periods over hundreds of thousands of years and
million of years where it's been warmer, it's been colder; and it was only a
few decades ago that the scientists who are now telling us we are going to lose
a white Christmas were telling us we were going into an ice age and there
would be white Christmases 365 days a year," he said.

"When people sing Bing Crosby's song in years ahead, they will still
experience the beauty of a white Christmas," O'Keefe predicted, referring to the
classic Christmas song.

[foot_soldier]

An Archives on the World Wide Web for posterity - what a splendid idea.

Following are a few uplifting selections from the voluminous repertoire of the Christ-like "jayreynolds" aka Jay Reynolds aka Jay "God's Chosen One" Reynolds aka Jay "Singlehandedly Carrying The Weight Of The World" Reynolds:


Originally posted by Jay Reynolds:
Some people HAVE been looking into your website, gollum. Tore you a new one, eh?
Ha!


Originally posted by Jay Reynolds:
hee-hee-hee.
I see mech has erased halva's last posting at CTC, which issued my cease and desist order. He replaced it with an anti-communist rant!


Originally posted by Jay Reynolds:
OK, Missy. ENOUGH OF THE "BLOWING UP" SUGGESTIONS!

Or are you just another chem-cultist looking for an all-expenses paid Guantanamo Bay vacation?

[foot_soldier]

December 15, 2004
Asia to fuel air travel growth
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4097471.stm

Global air traffic is set to be boosted in the next three years by a rise in travel between Europe and Asia, thanks to growth in both China and India.

Cargo volumes will also enjoy growth but airlines' finances will take time to recover, a new report claims, as rising oil prices hit profits.

Global airline body IATA said international passenger numbers will rise 6% annually between 2005 and 2008..... (continued)

[foot_soldier]

October 7, 2004
Air wars as US and EU battle over aircraft subsidies
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/business.cfm?id=1166422004

THE United States and the European Union fired the opening shots in what could prove to be a multi-billion-dollar, transatlantic trade war yesterday over alleged "uncompetitive subsidies" to their civil airliner industries.

Both Airbus and Boeing are currently in a battle to win contracts from a global airline industry hard pressed by spiralling fuel costs and the threat of international terrorism.

At present, Airbus has the edge, but in this, an election year in the US, and with jobs and trade one of the key battlegrounds, President George W. Bush has been coming under increasing pressure to help out the US contender.

And yesterday the US trade authorities made real President Bush’s threat in August to involve the World Trade Organisation when it placed a formal complaint with the Geneva-based body demanding European governments stop providing loans to Airbus.

The EU quickly retaliated, filing its own complaint to the WTO, challenging "massive subsidies" for Boeing.

"If this is the path the US has chosen, we accept the challenge," said EU trade commissioner Pascal Lamy, "not least because it is high time to put an end to massive illegal US subsidies to Boeing which damage Airbus..... (continued)

[gaiacomm]

Its Christmas in your home! Joy and Peace to all!

[foot_soldier]

December 15, 2004
The True Cost of Flying
http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=26687

PARIS, Dec 15 (IPS) - Hundreds of flights by subsidised airlines in Europe are endangering the global climate and the ozone layer. For now, they fly free of environmental regulations.

The European boom in ''low-cost'' airlines, fuelled by tax incentives, is increasing the level of toxic gases in the atmosphere and displacing less polluting and more efficient means of transportation for shorter distances, like trains.

Gisela B. is a passionate environmentalist. On the roof of her house in the northern German city of Bremen she has installed solar panels to generate electricity, she doesn't own a car, and she conserves water and energy in any way she can.

But when it comes to travel outside Germany, even though she is aware of the serious impacts of air transport on the climate, she doesn't hesitate to use one of the airlines that offer international flights at prices as low as one dollar.

These airlines -- referred to as ''low-cost'' but which activists say have high environmental costs -- have proliferated in recent years in the United States and Europe, despite the decline in air travel resulting from international terrorism incidents, particularly the Sep. 11, 2001 attacks in New York and Washington.

In Germany alone there are more than 10 commercial airlines that offer flights at ridiculously low prices between the country's major cities and to tourist destinations like the French Riviera or Spain's Majorca and Costa del Sol.

For a weekend on the French Mediterranean coast, for example, Gisela can fly from Berlin, Cologne or Frankfurt, on any one of at least 10 airlines, for less than 20 dollars round trip.

''I shouldn't fly because of the environmental effects of the aircraft,'' Gisela B. admitted in a conversation with Tierramérica. ''But I can't fight the temptation of such low prices.''

European airlines, like Easyjet, Ryanair and Germanwings, can afford the low airfares because of generous subsidies from national governments, which do not tax jet fuel, the only tax-free fuel in the world. In addition, commercial aviation does not have to pay the value-added tax that is applied to all other commercial transactions.

The local governments, meanwhile, exempt the ''low-cost'' airlines from other taxes in order to attract them to their smaller airports, which fell into disuse after the military presence declined with the end of the Cold War.

This policy has paved the way for the modernisation of tiny airports in cities like Frankfurt-Hahn, Dortmund, Lübeck, Cologne and Zweibruecken, in Germany; in Strasburg, Bergerac, Montpellier and Carcassone, in France; and several locations in Britain.

Meanwhile, the airlines also have reduced their costs with Internet-based reservation systems, using just one type of aircraft (for easier maintenance), and minimal on-board staff.

In the opinion of Werner Reh, an expert with the German Friends of the Earth organisation BUND, this policy ''is completely absurd.''

''The local governments apply their subsidies in a chaotic way and they compete with each other to obtain the low-cost airlines,'' Reh told Tierramérica.

Several of these companies have not survived, meaning that the local governments' investment goes to waste in airports that end up abandoned, he said.

Furthermore, train travel, a viable alternative for trips within Europe, is suffering as a result of this form of ''disloyal competition'', in which the airlines are selling services below cost.

Despite the scientific evidence on the harmful environmental effects of air traffic, the European governments have failed to draw up a rational policy on the matter.

The burning of jet fuel -- a petroleum product -- releases greenhouse gases that contribute to global warming and the process of climate change. Air traffic worldwide produces emissions of more than 600 million tons of carbon dioxide -- the leading greenhouse gas -- each year.

In addition, it releases nitrates, ash, sulphates and water vapour. Some of these substances deplete ozone in the atmosphere -- this layer of ozone gas is crucial for protecting life on Earth from the Sun's harmful rays.

The Britain-based environmental group Tourism Concern predicts that by 2015 half of the annual destruction of the ozone layer will be caused by commercial air traffic.

The Royal British Commission on Environmental Pollution estimated in 2002 that commercial airline emissions are ''a major contributor to global warming,'' and urged governments to draft policies to encourage train travel instead.

Tom Blundell, a biochemistry professor at the University of Cambridge and president of the commission, said he regrets that the only international instrument for reducing greenhouse gas emissions, the Kyoto Protocol (which takes effect in February 2005), ''does not include emissions from international aviation.''

''This continues to be a very sensitive issue,'' a source from the Paris-based OzonAction Unit of the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), told Tierramérica.

''It is very difficult to introduce the problem of commercial aviation emissions into international treaties,'' such as the Montreal Protocol, which establishes protections for the ozone layer, said the source.

''The governments are at the mercy of the (aeronautics) industry lobby,'' according to Mónika Lege, transport expert with the German group Robin Wood, based in Hamburg.

''The advertising suggests that we can all fly around the world almost free and without problems. But it is time that we face the consequences and take action: we must reduce aviation,'' she said in a Tierramérica interview.

But even the environmentally conscious Gisela B. has not heard the message. She recently reserved a round-trip flight to Santo Domingo -- for just a handful of dollars.

(* Julio Godoy is an IPS correspondent. Originally published Dec. 11 by Latin American newspapers that are part of the Tierramérica network. Tierramérica is a specialised news service produced by IPS with the backing of the United Nations Development Programme and the United Nations Environment Programme.)

[foot_soldier]

December 15, 2004
Blair Faces Test of Bush Friendship on Environment
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&ncid=753&e=5&u=/nm/20041215/sc_nm/environment_blair_bush_dc

LONDON (Reuters) - Tony Blair will get short shrift from George W. Bush on global warming when he leads the G8 in 2005 but the fight with Washington might help him shed the "poodle" tag he got over support for the Iraq war, analysts say.

Blair has pledged to put climate change at the top of his agenda for the 12 months starting in January that Britain has the helm of the Group of Eight rich nations.

But his high-profile commitment contrasts sharply with the Bush administration which has refused to sign up to the benchmark Kyoto treaty to combat global warming.

"I have always thought that it was a very high risk strategy for Tony Blair to put climate change so high on the G8's agenda," Victor Bulmer-Thomas, director of the Royal Institute of International Affairs think-tank, told Reuters.

"The question is -- can he persuade the United States to move closer to the European view on the environment, and the answer is 'no,"' he added.

Environmentalists insist that now is payback time. "It is time Blair used his diplomatic capital and persuaded the United States to agree to international commitments to cut greenhouse gas emissions," said Greenpeace head Stephen Tindale.

"But the signs are not good. At the moment it looks like Blair is all mouth and no trousers on climate change and that he is a serial flunker of challenges. He has yet to stand up to Bush on anything," he told Reuters.

And if Blair can't do it, no one can, Friends of the Earth head Tony Juniper said.

"If there is anyone in the world who can challenge the Bush administration's position on the environment it is him," he told Reuters. "But climate seems to be treated almost as a taboo subject in meetings between them."..... (continued)

If I were Tony Blair I wouldn't even bother trying to "persuade" the Bush administration to engage in working with the international community on meeting the emerging challenges of pollution-driven climate change. I wouldn't waste precious energy that is better spent continuing to work with those who not only acknowledge the problem but are already being directly affected by it.

Too bad Bush.corp.mil threw the Iraqi Liberation Project in Blair's face just as Blair was making some headway on giving concrete form to some ideas for working on the climate change issue:

February 26, 2003
UK's Blair demands new push on climate change
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/19957/story.htm

REUTERS -- LONDON - British Prime Minister Tony Blair urged the United States and other rich nations this week to do more to tackle global poverty and environmental damage or risk a permanent split with the developing world.

In a speech to highlight new green energy pledges by his government, Blair said a stronger commitment by rich nations on climate change could help convince poorer countries of its desire to act justly over crises like Iraq, the broader Middle East peace process and the threat posed by terror organisations.

"The polarity is there and it is dangerous," Blair told a sustainable development conference in London. "It divides sometimes along left/right lines. It divides along North/South lines. It divides the U.S. and its allies from the rest."

London and Washington have threatened to wage war on Iraq within weeks unless it gets rid of alleged weapons of mass destruction. Much of the rest of the international community is sceptical or openly hostile to any attack.

But on climate change, Blair parts ways with President George W. Bush, who has refused to sign up to the 1997 Kyoto treaty on greenhouse gases, saying it would be too costly. The United States is the biggest emitter of greenhouse gases.

Blair threw down the gauntlet, declaring Kyoto was not radical enough.

"Even the Kyoto targets have proved controversial with some countries, notably America. Many see it as a threat to the pursuit of economic growth... This needn't be the case."..... (continued)

February 25, 2003
Blair unveils global warming plan, says U.S. must do more
By Beth Gardiner, Associated Press

LONDON — Prime Minister Tony Blair announced ambitious plans Monday to combat global warming, saying the Kyoto treaty to reduce greenhouse gases did not go far enough and criticizing the United States for failing to back it.

Blair vowed Britain would seek to reduce its emissions of harmful carbon dioxide by 60 percent by 2050 and said President Bush was wrong to claim fighting warming will slow economic growth.

Full story: http://www.enn.com/news/2003-02-25/s_2782.asp

Blair should just go ahead and lead on this issue.

[foot_soldier]

Back to the World Wide Web Archives and another selection of uplifting contributions from "jayreynolds" aka Jay "Climate Change Is A Hoax" Reynolds aka Jay "CO2 Is Good For You" Reynolds aka Jay "Oil Makes The World Go Round" Reynolds:


Originally posted by Jay Reynolds:
Back to calling for banning again, eh, greaser? How 'democratic' of you!
Bring it on.


Originally posted by Jay Reynolds:
BTW, I thought you weren't going to recognize me anymore, but in your last posting you seem to have personified, in me, all your worst enemies rolled up in one!

You are a man clearly on the edge of sanity.
Now, jump!


Originally posted by Jay Reynolds:
The truth-seeking Jay Reynolds has long tried to correct your errors, only to get banned for doing you a favor. In my more vindictive moments, I am happy to then dredge up the sort of sludge you try to pass off as fact, even though I tried my best years earlier to correct it at the outset.


Originally posted by Jay Reynolds:
SO MUCH FOR GLOBAL WARMING

We've got a chilly 45 degrees outside this morning, quite unseasonable for Mid- August, and records are falling nationwide. For many, this is one of the coolest summers on record.


Originally posted by Jay Reynolds:
You sound like a very angry person right, now. Maybe you need to take a powder, my dear. Snuggle up in uncle jay-jay's armchair.

Now, relax, and let's discuss a little about the source of your anger.

While this forum was created, as you can see at the top of this page- for "debate", you haven't availed yourself of any substantive debate, honey.

You have short-circuited what this forum is all about, dumpling. I know, I know, you feel inadequate in debate because, well, after all, your old buddy chem11 isn't going to come bail you out. Here you can't just ban me when I ask tough questions, and yes, face the facts, you really don't have any and never will, have you?

All these are due to your own inadequacy, which is what has really gotten your panties in a twist, right, sweetie? It wasn't really about me at all. It could have been anybody, and likely it is almost everybody.


Originally posted by Jay Reynolds:
GIVE ME THAT OLD-TIME RELIGION!
GIVE ME THAT OLD-TIME RELIGION!
GIVE ME THAT OLD-TIME RELIGION!
GIVE ME THAT OLD-TIME RELIGION!

[foot_soldier]

Gaiacomm's right - it's Christmas.

Time to take a break.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL !

[Insurrectionchemistry]

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=174


December 13th, 2004
It's Time to Stop Being Hit...a letter from Michael Moore


Dear Friends,

It is no surprise that the Republicans are sore winners. They have spent the
better part of the past month beating their chests, threatening to send to
Siberia any Republican who doesn’t toe the line (poor Arlen Specter), and
promising everything short of martial law if the Democrats don’t do what they are
told.

What’s worse is to watch the pathetic sight of the DLC (the conservative,
pro-corporate group of Democrats) apologizing for being Democrats and promising
to “purge” the party of the likes of, well, all of US! Their comments are so
hilarious and really not even worth recognizing but the media is paying so much
attention to them, I thought it might be worth doing a little reality check.

The most people the DLC is able to get out to an event of theirs is about 200
at their annual dinner (where you have to pay thousands of dollars to get
in).

Contrast this with the following:

*Total members of Move On: More than 2,000,000
*Total Attendance at Vote for Change Concerts: An estimated 280,000
*Total Union Members in U.S.: Around 16,000,000
*Total Number of People Who Have Seen “Fahrenheit 9/11”: Over 50 million
*Total number of you reading this: Perhaps 10 million or more

The days of trying to move the Democratic Party to the right are over. We
lost a very close election (a one-state difference) by running the #1 liberal in
the Senate. Not bad. The country is shifting in our direction, not to the
right. But the country was attacked and people were scared. They were manipulated
with fear. And America has never thrown a sitting president out during
wartime. That’s the facts. Oh, and our candidate could have run a better campaign
(but we’ll have that discussion another day).

In the meantime, while we reflect on what went wrong, I would like to pass on
to you an essay that a friend who works with abuse victims sent to me. It was
written by a woman who has spent years working as an advocate for victims of
domestic abuse and she sees many parallels between her work and the reaction
of many Democrats to last month’s election. Her name is Mel Giles and here is
what she had to say…


Watch Dan Rather apologize for not getting his facts straight, humiliated
before the eyes of America, voluntarily undermining his credibility and career of
over thirty years. Observe Donna Brazille squirm as she is ridiculed by Bay
Buchanan, and pronounced irrelevant and nearly non-existent. Listen as Donna
and Nancy Pelosi and Senator Charles Schumer take to the airwaves saying that
they have to go back to the drawing board and learn from their mistakes and try
to be better, more likable, more appealing, have a stronger message, speak to
morality. Watch them awkwardly quote the bible, trying to speak the ‘new’
language of America. Surf the blogs, and read the comments of dismayed,
discombobulated, confused individuals trying to figure out what they did wrong. Hear
the cacophony of voices, crying out, "Why did they beat me?"

And then ask anyone who has ever worked in a domestic violence shelter if
they have heard this before.

They will tell you: Every single day.

The answer is quite simple. They beat us because they are abusers. We can
call it hate. We can call it fear. We can say it is unfair. But we are looped
into the cycle of violence, and we need to start calling the dominating side what
they are: abusive. And we need to recognize that we are the victims of
verbal, mental, and even, in the case of Iraq, physical violence.

As victims we can't stop asking ourselves what we did wrong. We can't seem to
grasp that they will keep hitting us and beating us as long as we keep
sticking around and asking ourselves what we are doing to deserve the beating.

Listen to George Bush say that the will of God excuses his behavior. Listen,
as he refuses to take responsibility, or express remorse, or even once, admit
a mistake. Watch him strut, and tell us that he will only work with those who
agree with him, and that each of us is only allowed one question (soon, it
will be none at all; abusers hit hard when questioned; the press corps can tell
you that). See him surround himself with only those who pledge oaths of
allegiance. Hear him tell us that if we will only listen and do as he says and agree
with his every utterance, all will go well for us (it won't; we will never be
worthy).

And watch the Democratic Party leadership walk on eggshells, try to meet him,
please him, wash the windows better, get out that spot, distance themselves
from gays and civil rights. See the Democrats cry for the attention and
affection and approval of the President and his followers. Watch us squirm. Watch us
descend into a world of crazy-making, where logic does not work and the other
side tells us we are nuts when we rely on facts. A world where, worst of all,
we begin to believe we are crazy.

How to break free? Again, the answer is quite simple.

First, you must admit you are a victim. Then, you must declare the state of
affairs unacceptable. Next, you must promise to protect yourself and everyone
around you that is being victimized. You don't do this by responding to their
demands, or becoming more like them, or engaging in logical conversation, or
trying to persuade them that you are right. You also don't do this by going
catatonic and resigned, by closing up your ears and eyes and covering your head
and submitting to the blows, figuring its over faster and hurts less if you
don't resist and fight back.

Instead, you walk away. You find other folks like yourself, 57 million of
them, who are hurting, broken, and beating themselves up. You tell them what
you've learned, and that you aren't going to take it anymore. You stand tall, with
57 million people at your side and behind you, and you look right into the
eyes of the abuser and you tell him to go to hell. Then you walk out the door,
taking the kids and gays and minorities with you, and you start a new life. The
new life is hard. But it's better than the abuse.

We have a mandate to be as radical and liberal and steadfast as we need to
be. The progressive beliefs and social justice we stand for, our core, must not
be altered. We are 57 million strong. We are building from the bottom up. We
are meeting, on the net, in church basements, at work, in small groups, and
right now, we are crying, because we are trying to break free and we don't know
how.

Any battered woman in America, any oppressed person around the globe who has
defied her oppressor will tell you this: There is nothing wrong with you. You
are in good company. You are safe. You are not alone. You are strong. You must
change only one thing: Stop responding to the abuser.

Don't let him dictate the terms or frame the debate (he'll win, not because
he's right, but because force works). Sure, we can build a better grassroots
campaign, cultivate and raise up better leaders, reform the election system to
make it fail-proof, stick to our message, learn from the strategy of the other
side. But we absolutely must dispense with the notion that we are weak,
godless, cowardly, disorganized, crazy, too liberal, naive, amoral, "loose,”
irrelevant, outmoded, stupid and soon to be extinct. We have the mandate of the world
to back us, and the legacy of oppressed people throughout history.

Even if you do everything right, they'll hit you anyway. Look at the poor
souls who voted for this nonsense. They are working for six dollars an hour if
they are working at all, their children are dying overseas and suffering from
lack of health care and a depleted environment and a shoddy education.

And they don't even know they are being hit.


How true. And that is our challenge over the next couple of years; to hold
out our hand to those being hit the hardest and help them leave behind a party
that only seeks to keep beating them, their children, and the kid next door
who’s on his way to Iraq.

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
MMFlint@aol.com

[halva]

My (not only my) latest text 'Climate Change Jekylls and Hydes' is on-line at the closed Ama Lahi forum:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ama_lahi

Access by approval.

[gaiacomm]

Yes, it is Christmas! Wayne take a break from the cut and paste and get in the spirit!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Gaia,

Last time I checked Christmas was on Dec. 25. This date picked up around the time of Constantine.

So for some time now, most people don't believe Christmas is until Dec. 25.


Only big merchants pushing the season and corrupting the values of Christ make Christmas start two weeks before Thanksgiving.

U trying some of the same?

is

[halva]

An Archives on the World Wide Web for posterity - what a splendid idea.

Following are a few uplifting selections from the voluminous repertoire of the Christ-like "jayreynolds" aka Jay Reynolds aka Jay "God's Chosen One" Reynolds aka Jay "Singlehandedly Carrying The Weight Of The World" Reynolds:

I cannot understand how there is still anybody on this thread who has not long ago ignore-listed this indescribably irrelevant deadshit Raynolds but instead keeps posting these quotations to remind us that he is still hanging around here.

[gaiacomm]

Gaia,

Last time I checked Christmas was on Dec. 25. This date picked up around the time of Constantine.

So for some time now, most people don't believe Christmas is until Dec. 25.


Only big merchants pushing the season and corrupting the values of Christ make Christmas start two weeks before Thanksgiving.

U trying some of the same?

is

Yes, Wayne that may be true but however I would like to see people from all walks of life treat people the way they are treated on that wonderful day. Why should we only celebrate one day when we have 364 left to enjoy!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Halva says:

"I cannot understand how there is still anybody on this thread who has not long ago ignore-listed this indescribably irrelevant deadshit Raynolds but instead keeps posting these quotations to remind us that he is still hanging around here."

======
What else do you expect from a supporter of the fascist based empire of big oil and Bush?

BTW---always use Jay Reynold's full name and spell it correctly so it show up in the search engines well.

IMHO,
is

[halva]

Halva says:

"I cannot understand how there is still anybody on this thread who has not long ago ignore-listed this indescribably irrelevant deadshit Raynolds but instead keeps posting these quotations to remind us that he is still hanging around here."

======
What else do you expect from a supporter of the fascist based empire of big oil and Bush?

BTW---always use Jay Reynold's full name and spell it correctly so it show up in the search engines well.

IMHO,
is

He does that himself. What do I (or anyone else) have to gain from having search engines record that we are noticing him?

[halva]

Yes, Wayne that may be true but however I would like to see people from all walks of life treat people the way they are treated on that wonderful day. Why should we only celebrate one day when we have 364 left to enjoy!

Gaiacomm, the remark you are replying to here was made by Jim Phelps.

[halva]

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

Testing the currents of multipolarity

By Dr Michael A Weinstein
ASIA TIMES
Dec 17, 2004
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FL17Aa01.html

The tendency toward a multipolar configuration of world politics, in which a number of regional power centers compete for hegemony over their spheres of influence within a framework of international agreements and institutions, is a long-term process involving incremental gains and losses for the major players.

The transition to multipolarity - if it prevails - has been set off by the severe problems confronted by the United States in its occupation of Iraq and by the decline of the dollar in international currency markets. The former has revealed the limitations and vulnerabilities of US military power and the latter has brought forward underlying weaknesses in the US economic system that are symbolized by persistent trade and budget deficits and are rooted in changes in the world balance of economic power.

At present, the US has lost the position that it was perceived to have after the fall of the Soviet Union as the undisputed global superpower presiding over an economic order integrating a world of market democracies. Contemporary global politics are structured primarily by a struggle of regional powers to assert themselves against efforts by Washington to reclaim at least some of its dominance.

What Washington has most essentially lost is acquiescence to its leadership. Other powers no longer have any compunction about opposing US policies and preferences when it is not in their own independent interests to follow them. It is a game of every power for itself, in which each regional power center cooperates with others when it shares common interests with them and opposes them when interests conflict. The result is the absence of a single paradigm of world order or even of a coherent pattern of alliances. In their place are coalitions of convenience that - taken together - have no consistent direction.

Currently, the major presumptive power centers are China in East Asia, India in South Asia, Brazil in South America, the Franco-German combine in Europe, and Russia at the center of its multi-regional periphery. As an area of contention that is internally divided and subject to strong pressures from outside powers, the Near East has no single presumptive power center, although Iran is bidding for that role. There is no state in Africa that has the resources to be a hegemon, although Nigeria and the Republic of South Africa might take that position or share it in the future. The US has secure dominance in its North American base, but its global reach is in question as it faces challenges and tests from ascending powers elsewhere.

Assessing the status of the struggle between Washington and the other power centers demands constant attention to incremental changes in every corner of the world since everything is in play. Sometimes a measure of the currents can be taken, especially when international gatherings spotlight ruptures and alliances. During the week of December 5, the drift toward multipolarity was confirmed at six international meetings - with one special exception - at which Washington's power was challenged to the detriment of its perceived interests.

EU weapons sales to China

The most significant geostrategic issue that came up for deliberation in the week of December 5 was whether the European Union would end its arms embargo on China. The EU-China summit at The Hague illustrates the tendency of regional power centers to deal directly with one another, apart from international organizations and Washington.

At present, China is under arms embargoes imposed by the EU and the US, dating from the suppression of the Chinese pro-democracy movement in 1989. Beijing does not expect Washington to lift its embargo, but it wants to resume military trade with Europe. Beijing's request is supported by Paris and Berlin, and opposed by the states that rely on Washington to balance the power of the Franco-German combine.

The purpose of the summit was to spotlight, consolidate and advance the growing economic and political links between China and the EU. The EU has become, since its enlargement, China's biggest trading partner, and China has become the EU's second-largest trading partner - total trade between them is now US$200 billion per year. Beijing and its European supporters believe that the Sino-European relationship has reached a level at which China should become a full partner with no restrictions. The opponents of lifting the embargo cite Beijing's continued human-rights violations, but they also are motivated by pressure from Washington, whose interests are primarily geostrategic.

For Washington, EU cancellation of its embargo would be "unacceptable". Washington does not want China to have advanced weapons technology that it could employ against the US in any future Sino-American military confrontation, particularly over Taiwan. It also fears that Beijing will be able to sell the technology to Washington's adversaries and that US technology will find its way into Chinese hands through US-European weapons sharing. Washington has threatened to curtail military cooperation with Europe if the embargo is lifted.

Despite Washington's opposition, the summit reached a result favorable to Beijing. EU President Jan Peter Balkenende announced: "Within the EU there is a willingness to lift the arms embargo. We have given a positive signal." The final decision awaits the completion of an EU "code of conduct" on arms sales that is expected in early 2005, when the embargo would end.

If Washington cannot find a way to stop the embargo's cancellation, its diminished influence in Europe will be confirmed, as will the independence of the EU as a regional power bloc with global reach acting in its separate interests.

South American Community of Nations

Another instance in which a regional power center acted independently and against Washington was the creation - led by Brasilia - of a South American Community of Nations at a meeting in Cuzco, Peru. The community unites the Andean Community of Nations (Bolivia, Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and Venezuela), Mercosur (Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay), and Chile, Guyana and Suriname. The ultimate aim of the initiative is a transnational entity with a single currency and a parliament modeled on the EU, although that result is probably decades away, if it's ever realized. At present, the community does not even have a separate institutional structure. Its geostrategic importance is as an alternative to Washington's design of a Free-Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) that it would dominate.

The formation of the community is a political victory for Brasilia, which has a geostrategy hinged on South American integration that would permit it to lead a regional power bloc within international organizations. Such a bloc would be adverse to Washington's interests. Finding the path to the FTAA blocked by Brasilia and the left-of-center administrations in other South American capitals, Washington has concentrated with mixed success on forging bilateral trade agreements in the region, hoping eventually to coordinate them into a comprehensive free-trade area.

The South American Community is currently a weak fledgling. Brasilia continues to negotiate deals with the EU and the North American Free-Trade Area independently of Mercosur; Buenos Aires resists Brasilia's dominance, trade among the two uniting blocs is small; and Washington's strategy has not been convincingly thwarted. Nonetheless, the 12 states within the community see it in their interests to make the initial move toward integration, which indicates that they want at least a counterweight against Washington's influence. Although the prospects of the community to achieve its maximum aims are problematic, it will probably block the full realization of US dominance over the Western hemisphere, increasing the possibility that Brazil will emerge as a full-fledged regional power center, effectively pursuing interests independent of Washington's.

[halva]

US-India military cooperation

Washington also encountered resistance to its geostrategic interests in South Asia at a meeting in New Delhi of US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld with his Indian counterpart Shri Pranab Mukherjee. Washington's South Asian policy is to cultivate strong military ties with both India and Pakistan. That policy is compromised by the persistence of conflict between the two South Asian states over the disputed region of Kashmir. Neither New Delhi nor Islamabad wants to see the balance of military power shift in favor of its adversary. Washington tries to walk a fine line between keeping Islamabad as a collaborator in the struggle against Islamic revolution and gaining influence over the geostrategic direction that New Delhi's rising economic and military power will take.

Were it not for the "war on terrorism", Washington would favor India over Pakistan. As it stands, Washington is committed to selling $1.2 billion worth of military equipment to Pakistan, including surveillance planes, anti-tank missiles and anti-missile gun systems. In addition, Islamabad is asking for F-16 aircraft. New Delhi strongly opposes the sales, warning that they could damage the peace negotiations between India and Pakistan that are in the early stages of detente.

Rumsfeld was met with calls by Indian officials to cancel US arms sales to Pakistan. External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh asserted that New Delhi would "ensure that our defense preparedness is not compromised in any way". It is not clear how much the growing security ties between Washington and New Delhi will be compromised if the sales to Pakistan go through, but the incident indicates the difficult choices among conflicting interests that Washington faces in South Asia. India's overriding geostrategic interest is to be the regional power center of the subcontinent and it will cooperate with Washington only so far as it perceives that cooperation serves that interest.

NATO training mission in Iraq

Further opposition to Washington's desires surfaced at the meeting of North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) foreign ministers in Brussels, where US Secretary of State Colin Powell encountered the refusal of France, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Spain and Greece to participate in a mission to train Iraqi security forces. As in the case of potential EU arms sales to China, Washington was backed by NATO members that rely on it to balance the power of the Franco-German combine: Poland, Hungary and the Netherlands promised increased contributions to the mission.

Powell responded to the six non-cooperating states by accusing them of "hurting the credibility and cohesion" of NATO, yet their rejection was a foregone conclusion, even though the mission is a NATO policy. This latest demonstration of the rift between the Franco-German combine and the US points to the continuing failure of Washington to restore its leadership of the North Atlantic alliance structure. NATO is now a disputed entity and no longer a secure beachhead of US strategic dominance in Europe. The refusal of the six non-cooperating states marks the first time in NATO's history that members will not participate in an authorized mission.

Powell had come to Europe to mend fences and smooth the way for President George W Bush's planned visit there in February. He left seeing the divisions widened.

Middle East reform versus Palestinian peace

From Brussels, Powell proceeded to Rabat for a meeting with leaders from the Middle East and Europe. Originally inspired by Washington to showcase and push its "Greater Middle East Initiative", which was a move to commit Arab states to a program of democratization and market reform in exchange for economic aid, the Morocco conference was dominated by calls from the Arabs and Europeans for Washington to abandon its unwavering support for Israel and to act as an honest broker in that country's conflict with the Palestinians.

The Rabat meeting underscored the failure of Washington's strategy of spreading democracy in the Middle East through a successful demonstration project in Iraq. At present, democratization is in severe question in Iraq, given the Sunni Arab insurgency and the growing rivalries among the Shi'ite Arab, Sunni Arab and Kurdish communities and their political representatives.

Long before Powell arrived in the Moroccan capital, the original aims of the meeting had been pared down to making progress on economic and social development without reciprocal political reform. Washington had hoped at least to avoid focus on the Palestine issue, but the other participants were emboldened by Washington's failure in Iraq to make a public show of their opposition to the Bush administration's pro-Israel stance.

It is not even clear that Washington desires the democratization of Arab states anymore. For the neo-conservative perspective that informs the Greater Middle East Initiative, democratization would reduce the alienation of segments of Arab societies that support Islamic revolution. Yet were those sectors to gain a legitimate political voice, they might install Islamist regimes. As it stands, Washington has fallen back to effective support of the Arab crony regimes and has lost any leverage to open up reform. Without support from the Europeans, Powell was reduced to saying that getting the participants in the conference to meet at all was a "victory".

The official statement issued at the end of the conference registered the defeat of Washington's explicit aims. The participants "reaffirmed that their support for reform in the region will go hand in hand with their support for a just, comprehensive and lasting settlement of the Arab-Israeli conflict". The clear signal is that there will be no reform without movement to satisfy Palestinian aims. Rather than realizing Washington's hopes, the Rabat meeting affirmed the very linkage that Washington wanted to avoid. Washington does not have as yet any strategy to replace the Greater Middle East Initiative.

[halva]

Confrontation with Russia at the OSCE

Washington's most direct geostrategic confrontation came early in the week of December in Sofia, Bulgaria, at the meetings of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE). The issue there was Moscow's behavior after the disputed presidential election in Ukraine, which had led to a political crisis marked by mass demonstrations and blockades of state institutions in Kiev aimed at forcing a second run-off between opposition candidate Viktor Yuschenko and the Moscow-backed putative winner of the first round, Viktor Yanukovych, after documented reports of widespread electoral fraud and intimidation.

In the Ukrainian election, Moscow had followed its neo-imperialist strategy of having President Vladimir Putin endorse a favored candidate and supplying campaign support to the favorite. When that strategy failed, Putin responded by affirming Yanukovych's victory and supporting efforts to block the second run-off. By the time the OSCE meeting had convened, Ukraine's Supreme Court had voided the first run-off and Moscow had fallen back to accepting the result.

Viewing Ukraine as essential to maintaining and consolidating a sphere of influence on Russia's periphery, Moscow attempted to dig in its heels at the OSCE. The day before the meetings, Putin warned the Euro-American alliance not to interfere in Ukraine's internal affairs through its attempts to broker a new election. The EU and US, which share a common interest in extracting Ukraine from Russia's sphere, met Moscow head-on, insisting that their efforts were legitimate.

At the meetings, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov accused the Western alliance of "political manipulation". Powell responded that OSCE election monitoring and mediation activities in Ukraine were not interference, but "the international community coming together to support democracy". Powell also took the offensive by calling for Moscow to withdraw its troops from the breakaway mini-states of Trans-Dniester in Moldova and South Ossetia and Abkhazia in Georgia. The meetings ended without a unified policy on Ukraine, because of Russian opposition to the Euro-American position.

After the OSCE meetings, a compromise was reached in Kiev opening the way for a second run-off and a reconstituted electoral commission, but conceding to the pro-Moscow camp a new constitutional arrangement in which parliament would gain powers at the expense of the president, putting a possible brake on the pro-Western Yuschenko should he win the run-off. When the NATO meeting convened later in the week, Lavrov signed on to a unified statement calling on all parties to refrain from intimidating voters in the second run-off and "to work to ensure a free, fair electoral process".

The provisional resolution of the Ukraine issue was a victory for Washington, but one that it did not win through its own efforts. If Ukraine is partially pried away from Moscow's influence, it will be because of a popular movement within that country and the diplomatic pressure afforded by a coincidence of interests between the US and EU. The latter has the most to gain from a Western-oriented Ukraine, which could become a key element in a possible future expansion of the bloc.

Moscow misjudged and mishandled its role in Ukraine, bringing the erosion of its influence on itself. It has perhaps learned its lesson: in a similar post-election crisis in Abkhazia, Moscow has retreated from its hardline support of its favorite presidential candidate and has brokered a deal between him and his opponent.

How serious a loss Moscow has taken will depend on the results of the run-off and the balance of forces in Ukraine's parliament. The Ukraine affair shows that when it works with another power center, Washington can gain an advantage. The five preceding cases show that Washington is vulnerable to the diminution of its influence when it must act alone.

Conclusion

Except where Washington had the support of Europe, which stood to gain most from successfully confronting Moscow over Ukraine, its geostrategic aims suffered setbacks at the six international meetings that were held during the week of December 5.

The drift toward multipolarity has been confirmed by the EU's move to lift its arms embargo on China, Brazil's success in starting a South American Community as an alternative to the FTAA, India's opposition to US arms sales to Pakistan, the Franco-German combine's refusal to support the training mission in Iraq, and Euro-Arab insistence on coupling the Palestine issue to democratic reforms.

In most international meetings, a consensus is reached in advance so that conflicts will not be highlighted under the glare of publicity. Washington's loss of leadership is indicated by the fact that the meetings in which it participated during the week of December 5 were marked by clear public opposition to its policies.

In the wake of the Iraq intervention, Washington continues to retreat and retrench. How far that process will go depends more on how the regional power centers contesting Washington take advantage of their opportunities instead of on anything that Washington can do.

Published with permission of the Power and Interest News Report, an analysis-based publication that seeks to provide insight into various conflicts, regions and points of interest around the globe. All comments should be directed to content@pinr.com

[halva]

An encouraging e-mail today from Ross Gelbspan.

http://www.heatisonline.org/main.cfm

[jayreynolds]

How to break free? Again, the answer is quite simple.

First, you must admit you are a victim.

So empowering, Jimbo.
So, you are a victim, eh?
But didn't you claim to be a "whistleblower" who "sits at the right hand of God"?

The 'mighty' have fallen..........

[halva]

Raynolds I can't read what you wrote, but whatever it is there is just one thing I have to say to you:

The role that you have for years now assigned to 'chemmies' is going to be assigned to you.

That is as sure as the reality that day follows night.

[gaiacomm]

Gaiacomm, the remark you are replying to here was made by Jim Phelps.


Well I guess it can apply to everyone.

I hear rumor that this forum will soon be disconnected for reasons yet unknown...so I suggest you get all you wish to say out for history and google!

CHEERS!

[halva]

Why not just disconnect Raynolds? There's nothing wrong with the forum, or the thread.

[gaiacomm]

Why not just disconnect Raynolds? There's nothing wrong with the forum, or the thread.


JR has done nothing wrong. No more than all of us. He has the right to freedom of speech as do we. We tolerate and ignor or debate. We have choices. The forum most likely has run its course.

[halva]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4100049.stm

Climate change hits bottom line
By Tim Hirsch
BBC environment correspondent in Buenos Aires

The World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) has announced that 2004 is expected to be the fourth warmest year worldwide since records began.

2004 was the most expensive year ever for insurance payouts. And the insurance industry says this year will face unprecedented claims for damage from weather-related disasters.

Both sets of figures were released as ministers from 180 countries heard a message from the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan urging an end to doubts and delays on action to combat climate change.

The WMO reported that the average temperature of the world's surface for 2004 was expected to be 0.44C higher than the mean for the period 1961-1990, making it the fourth hottest year since 1861, just behind 2003, but still well below the all-time record year of 1998.

New risks

And this year has been the most expensive ever for the insurance industry in terms of payouts for damage from natural disasters such as hurricanes and typhoons.

Climate change: The evidence and future predictions

At-a-glance

According to preliminary figures compiled by the leading re-insurer Munich Re, insured damage for the first 10 months of 2004 amounted to $35bn, with the United States facing the biggest bill of $26bn.

Overall economic losses, the majority of which were uninsured, are expected to be about $90bn.

Among the disasters singled out in the report are Hurricane Ivan, which devastated the island of Grenada in September, killing 28 people and causing an estimated $1bn in damaged homes, buildings and agricultural losses.

The report says the insurance industry is also worried that new climate-related risks may be emerging, such as Hurricane Catarina, which hit southern Brazil earlier this year.

It developed in the south Atlantic where the sea temperatures are normally too low for tropical cyclones to form.

We need to stop this dangerous experiment humankind is conducting on the Earth's atmosphere

Thomas Loster,
Munich Re insurance

Thomas Loster, a climate expert with Munich Re said: "As in 2002 and 2003, the overall balance of natural catastrophes is again clearly dominated by weather-related disasters, many of them exceptional and extreme.

"We need to stop this dangerous experiment humankind is conducting on the Earth's atmosphere."

The figures were released as ministers gathered for the final stage of the UN conference to discuss future action on climate change.

'Seize this moment'

The executive director of the UN environment programme Klaus Toepfer read a message from Mr Annan saying the eyes of the world were on the governments gathered in Buenos Aires.

Mr Annan said: "People around the world want to know that you are working together, on a multilateral basis, to address this challenge with all your creativity and will.

Insurance claims are expected to top $20bn

"They want genuine signs that the days of delay and doubt are behind us. I call on you to seize this moment."

While it did not mention the US by name, the apparent reference was to the refusal of President George W Bush to take on targets to cut greenhouse gas emissions set by the Kyoto protocol, which comes into force next year.

A more obvious attack on the US position came from the President of Argentina, Nestor Kirchner.

He accused rich countries of double standards by insisting on the repayment of financial debt from the developing world, while refusing to acknowledge their own "environmental debt" - since it was the industrialised economies which created the build-up of greenhouse emissions, but the poor who will suffer the worst impacts of global warming.

[gaiacomm]

Blah....Blah....Blah....

Where are the clowns?

[jayreynolds]

Raynolds I can't read what you wrote, but whatever it is there is just one thing I have to say to you:

The role that you have for years now assigned to 'chemmies' is going to be assigned to you.

That is as sure as the reality that day follows night.

Don't try and deny it anymore, Wayne.
Nobody ever believed either you or Deborah would ever 'ignore list' anyone at all on this thread.

Besides, you've just replied, so I know you are reading every one of my posts.

Gotcha!

Deborah, want me to dredge up some old posts from your past, like back when you were so *certain* about the barium gambit?

Just let me know.........

[halva]

Raynolds, speak up. I can't hear you.

[gaiacomm]

Wayne: You will never get rid of JR and company. He will have to get rid of himself when he is ready. All you can do is rant and rave with text on this forum.

Just move forward and forget the past. You have not lost, you have won by spreading and informing information that is vital to us all. The choice for us to accept or reject is just that...but keep on!

[foot_soldier]

December 16, 2004
Some States Split with Bush on Emissions
The Associated Press
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121804G.shtml

As Bush stands firm against emissions controls, some states flirt with Europe on reductions.

Two sets of Americans have come here to talk global warming: the United States, opposed to controls on carbon emissions, and a bloc of united states, from Maine to Delaware, that plan to impose them.

"It's not an in-your-face thing," Kenneth Colburn, helping coordinate the nine-state effort, said of the seeming defiance of the Bush administration. "They're doing what they think needs to be done."

That may even include linking up with the Europeans in a backdoor trading scheme on emissions although a key Republican says that would meet a "lot of skepticism" in Congress.

The American by-play is taking place at the annual U.N. conference on climate change, where delegates from scores of nations are filling in last-minute details on the Kyoto Protocol, the 1997 pact that takes effect Feb. 16 requiring 30 industrial nations to reduce, by 2012, emissions of "greenhouse gases" that scientists blame for global warming.

The biggest pollutant is carbon dioxide, byproduct of fossil fuel burning by automobile engines, power plants and other industrial operations.

The United States is not among the 30. The Bush administration has rejected Kyoto, protesting that it would damage the U.S. economy and that it should also cover poorer nations, such as China and India.

But in the pyramid of powers called the U.S. federation, there were other ideas.

"The United States is 'states' with an 's,'" said Fred Butler, a New Jersey public utilities commissioner here for the U.N. conference. The 50 states are 50 "laboratories of ideas," he said.

More than two dozen U.S. states have taken action individually to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, by ordering cuts in power-plant emissions, for example, and limiting state government purchases of fuel-inefficient sport utility vehicles.

Most significantly, California regulators last September ordered the auto industry to trim exhaust levels on cars and light trucks in the state by 25 percent before 2016. Other states may follow if California's move survives a court challenge.

In the U.S. Northeast, New York Gov. George Pataki, a Republican, in April 2003 invited other states to develop a regional plan for "cap and trade" on power-plant emissions of carbon dioxide a system whereby plants that don't use up their reduced quotas of emissions can sell "offsets," or credits, to other companies that overshoot their allowances.

Under an existing consortium, the Northeast States for Coordinated Air Use Management, eight other states joined in: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey and Delaware. Four have Republican governors, four Democratic. Combined, they account for 14 percent of U.S. carbon emissions.

A proposed design for the system is expected next April, to be considered and approved by the nine states. Colburn, executive director of the Boston-based consortium, said the states may be trading carbon emission credits in two or three years. "It's a question of 'when,' not 'if,'" he said..... (continued)

NESCAUM
http://www.nescaum.org/

[foot_soldier]

Regionally Coordinated Climate Change Policies Gaining Momentum in the Northeast U.S.
http://www.mjbradley.com/uscps/spotlight.pdf

[Yaak]

Ah, but it's a sad day again in message board land for Jimmy-boy Phelps. He insists on posting at the Tampa Bay IndyMedia Forum even though nobody there wants him to. He received another severe bitch-slapping after posting a link to his own web site.



http://www.tampaindymedia.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=441&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30&sid=dd9843017b49d74a45de68fef43fb3a5


doewatch.com - i will let yaak's comments speak for themselves, or rather, i will let your site speak for itself. no intelligent or sane person would stoop to the level to believe the bunk that is presented there as fact. it is humorous to say that something is true becuase it is on the internet.

as to your condescending statements about me being a "guest" let me provide a quote from this very site on it's philosophy towards "guests":
"...please feel free to discuss newswire articles in our forums. Newswire posts that are merely comments on other posts will be moved to the forums to maintain continuity in the discussions. The "Discuss Articles" forum can be read and posted to anonymously."

this really brings up two points. one is that the site seems to encourage anonymous posts, as they inform me that i can read and post messages anonymously. the other is that is mentions that "Newswire posts that are merely comments on other posts will be moved to the forums to maintain continuity in the discussions." hence, this discussion thread on contrails. you clamor for a forum on this site for your agenda, and make threats when you don't get it. you attempt to negate my statements becuase i am a "guest." you also foolishly called me "anonymous yaak." i can assure you that i am not yaak. yaak has made the decision to post under the name yaak. would you prefer i choose a 'screen name' to post under instead of guest? perhaps i can be 'doewatch.com is wrong' or 'anti doewatch.com' or maybe 'flouride=aids' or better yet i could be 'your dentist wants you to become a mind slave to the government.'

as before, you fail to answer my one crucial question: why do you threaten this site? why do you feel as though you are obligated to have contrail discussion? why do you speak as though this is your RIGHT? answer that honestly if you can. until then i will remind you that this site has legitimate issues to discuss, such as voter fraud, media distortion of the war in iraq, the influence of corporate money on the 2 party system, and on an on. flouride clouds sprayed from planes to turn us into aids ridden mind zombies of the governement does nothing to further more important discussions.

Oh my.............the shame, Jimmy.

Where do you find the nerve to keep coming back??? :confused:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

[gaiacomm]

Blah...Blah.....Blah......

[Yaak]

Blah...Blah.....Blah......
Absotively, posilutely, undeniably correct.

[halva]

Chemtrails activists everywhere (including the United States) should support the Kyoto Climate Parade and International Day of Action on February 12th, 2005.

http://freethesheeple.net/cacc/html/

Find out who is organizing the pro-Kyoto events in your area. Organize events yourself if nobody else is, following the general political line of the international campaign. Liaise with the international organizers including those at the URL to which I have provided the link. Don't try to talk to them about chemtrails.

Come to the demonstrations with banners supporting the slogans that the international organizers are projecting. But also make banners with pictures of aircraft leaving aerosol trails and on your banners ask the question:

"Is this [until the end of the world] an acceptable alternative to Kyoto?"

or - alternative formulation -

"Is this [until the Day of Judgement] an acceptable alternative to Kyoto?"

The theoretical back-up to this proposal is on-line at the closed Ama Lahi forum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ama_lahi

in the posting "Climate Change Jekylls and Hydes".

Access by approval.

[jayreynolds]

Chemtrails activists. Don't try to talk to them about chemtrails.
The theoretical back-up to this proposal is on-line at the closed Ama Lahi forum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ama_lahi in the posting "Climate Change Jekylls and Hydes".Access by approval.

Wayne, even Deborah is smart enough to see the hypocritical futility of this.
Real "acivists" don't hide in "access by approval" boxes, don't erect barriers to their causes, and above all, have to speak out publicly. You work against yourselves, even at this forum.

Your people have been driven back into the dark recesses of the world because you have marginalized yourselves by associating with racists, kooks, nutters and rip off artists on at least two continents, are beset by debunkers at every turn who expose your falsehoods, and are on a downward spiral. You know it, I know it, and every environmental organization now knows it.

You failed at the ESF in London, even failed within the thirty members of CACC. Failed at Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth, etc.etc etc.

None of them will carry out your "marching orders", you might as well be breaking wind.........

[gaiacomm]

Blah...Blah......Blah......

[foot_soldier]

Kyoto Protocol & Airlines
http://www.vacationtechnician.com/x/climatecare2.htm

"At the Third Session of the Conference of the Parties in Kyoto, international aviation emissions were not included in the agreed targets, because of the difficulties that had arisen over the methodologies for allocating these emissions".
http://www.aee.faa.gov/emissions/global/UNFCCC_Background.htm

[gaiacomm]

An Open letter to Jews


With all of the hate against not just Jews but also other races it has become so confusing to understand why this is so. But I have noticed thru the years that Jews seem to always rise to the top of the hate list. I can understand this by first hand experience. Killing Jews seems to be a sport and in some cases even financially rewarding. Hating Jews seems to just fuel the fire.

So I wish to separate myself from the ones that wish to kill Jews and other hate crimes against humanity and ask any Jew anywhere on this planet to help me understand how you feel about these crimes and what can we do to work together and get to know one another. Understanding what it is like to be a Jew is a good start.

People have been murdering Jews for years and of course other races as well and it continues. I do recognize that fact but wish to focus on Jews right now since you all seem to be the topic of discussion everywhere.

Now, I am willing to listen and understand if you Jews are wiling to respond to this letter in your own words. I wish to know.

Granted it does give some pleasure to others to eliminate you Jews over reasons I still am trying to understand. Do you realize that if someone or group could get a nuclear or biological weapon they would use it on Israel without regard?

You Jews are marked for elimination wherever you are and only have the protection of the USA for now. But that is soon being edged away.

Defending yourselves is your right but so it is with anyone else including Palestine.

You Jews should consider sharing your lands with others and becoming two nations that work together for peace. Maybe the Arabs would take notice and even forgive the past.

But until then unfortunately you Jews will always be targets.

I am waiting for your honest response!

[foot_soldier]

Gretchen Cook-Anderson
Headquarters, Washington
(Phone: 202/358-0836)

Chris Rink/Julia Cole
Langley Research Center, Hampton, Va.
(Phone: 757/864-6786/4052)

April 27, 2004
RELEASE : 04-140

Clouds Caused By Aircraft Exhaust May Warm The U.S. Climate
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2004/apr/HQ_04140_clouds_climate.html

NASA scientists have found that cirrus clouds, formed by contrails from aircraft engine exhaust, are capable of increasing average surface temperatures enough to account for a warming trend in the United States that occurred between 1975 and 1994.

"This result shows the increased cirrus coverage, attributable to air traffic, could account for nearly all of the warming observed over the United States for nearly 20 years starting in 1975, but it is important to acknowledge contrails would add to and not replace any greenhouse gas effect," said Patrick Minnis, senior research scientist at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. The study was published April 15 in the Journal of Climate. "During the same period, warming occurred in many other areas where cirrus coverage decreased or remained steady," he added.

"This study demonstrates that human activity has a visible and significant impact on cloud cover and, therefore, on climate. It indicates that contrails should be included in climate change scenarios," Minnis said..... (continued)

[foot_soldier]

December 15, 2004
The True Cost of Flying
http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=26687

PARIS, Dec 15 (IPS) - Hundreds of flights by subsidised airlines in Europe are endangering the global climate and the ozone layer. For now, they fly free of environmental regulations.

The European boom in ''low-cost'' airlines, fuelled by tax incentives, is increasing the level of toxic gases in the atmosphere and displacing less polluting and more efficient means of transportation for shorter distances, like trains.

Gisela B. is a passionate environmentalist. On the roof of her house in the northern German city of Bremen she has installed solar panels to generate electricity, she doesn't own a car, and she conserves water and energy in any way she can.

But when it comes to travel outside Germany, even though she is aware of the serious impacts of air transport on the climate, she doesn't hesitate to use one of the airlines that offer international flights at prices as low as one dollar.

These airlines -- referred to as ''low-cost'' but which activists say have high environmental costs -- have proliferated in recent years in the United States and Europe, despite the decline in air travel resulting from international terrorism incidents, particularly the Sep. 11, 2001 attacks in New York and Washington.

In Germany alone there are more than 10 commercial airlines that offer flights at ridiculously low prices between the country's major cities and to tourist destinations like the French Riviera or Spain's Majorca and Costa del Sol.

For a weekend on the French Mediterranean coast, for example, Gisela can fly from Berlin, Cologne or Frankfurt, on any one of at least 10 airlines, for less than 20 dollars round trip.

''I shouldn't fly because of the environmental effects of the aircraft,'' Gisela B. admitted in a conversation with Tierramérica. ''But I can't fight the temptation of such low prices.''

European airlines, like Easyjet, Ryanair and Germanwings, can afford the low airfares because of generous subsidies from national governments, which do not tax jet fuel, the only tax-free fuel in the world. In addition, commercial aviation does not have to pay the value-added tax that is applied to all other commercial transactions.

The local governments, meanwhile, exempt the ''low-cost'' airlines from other taxes in order to attract them to their smaller airports, which fell into disuse after the military presence declined with the end of the Cold War.

This policy has paved the way for the modernisation of tiny airports in cities like Frankfurt-Hahn, Dortmund, Lübeck, Cologne and Zweibruecken, in Germany; in Strasburg, Bergerac, Montpellier and Carcassone, in France; and several locations in Britain.

Meanwhile, the airlines also have reduced their costs with Internet-based reservation systems, using just one type of aircraft (for easier maintenance), and minimal on-board staff.

In the opinion of Werner Reh, an expert with the German Friends of the Earth organisation BUND, this policy ''is completely absurd.''

''The local governments apply their subsidies in a chaotic way and they compete with each other to obtain the low-cost airlines,'' Reh told Tierramérica.

Several of these companies have not survived, meaning that the local governments' investment goes to waste in airports that end up abandoned, he said.

Furthermore, train travel, a viable alternative for trips within Europe, is suffering as a result of this form of ''disloyal competition'', in which the airlines are selling services below cost.

Despite the scientific evidence on the harmful environmental effects of air traffic, the European governments have failed to draw up a rational policy on the matter.

The burning of jet fuel -- a petroleum product -- releases greenhouse gases that contribute to global warming and the process of climate change. Air traffic worldwide produces emissions of more than 600 million tons of carbon dioxide -- the leading greenhouse gas -- each year.

In addition, it releases nitrates, ash, sulphates and water vapour. Some of these substances deplete ozone in the atmosphere -- this layer of ozone gas is crucial for protecting life on Earth from the Sun's harmful rays.

The Britain-based environmental group Tourism Concern predicts that by 2015 half of the annual destruction of the ozone layer will be caused by commercial air traffic.

The Royal British Commission on Environmental Pollution estimated in 2002 that commercial airline emissions are ''a major contributor to global warming,'' and urged governments to draft policies to encourage train travel instead.

Tom Blundell, a biochemistry professor at the University of Cambridge and president of the commission, said he regrets that the only international instrument for reducing greenhouse gas emissions, the Kyoto Protocol (which takes effect in February 2005), ''does not include emissions from international aviation.''

''This continues to be a very sensitive issue,'' a source from the Paris-based OzonAction Unit of the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), told Tierramérica.

''It is very difficult to introduce the problem of commercial aviation emissions into international treaties,'' such as the Montreal Protocol, which establishes protections for the ozone layer, said the source.

''The governments are at the mercy of the (aeronautics) industry lobby,'' according to Mónika Lege, transport expert with the German group Robin Wood, based in Hamburg..... (continued)

[foot_soldier]

May 10, 2004
Climate Change Out of the Blue
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,63365,00.html

Those wispy streams of vapor that follow jetliners across the sky may not be as innocuous as they appear.

A new NASA study claims man-made cirrus clouds formed by commercial jet engine exhaust may be responsible for the increased surface temperatures detected in the United States between 1975 and 1994.

Climate data shows there has been a 1 percent per decade increase in cirrus cloud cover over the United States, which the NASA paper says is likely due to commercial air traffic.

Cirrus clouds, whether natural or artificial, play an important climatological role because they trap heat in the atmosphere by reflecting infrared radiation emitted from the Earth's surface.

The study, which appeared in the April 15 issue of the Journal of Climate, estimates that cirrus clouds from jet engine condensation trails, or contrails, increased the temperature of the lower atmosphere by anywhere from 0.36 to 0.54 degrees Fahrenheit per decade. These findings tend to agree with National Weather Service data that shows temperatures at the surface and lower atmosphere rising by almost 0.5 degrees per decade between 1975 and 1994.

Using 25 years of global surface observations of cirrus clouds, temperature and humidity from the National Centers for Environmental Prediction, the researchers confirmed the cirrus trends with 13 years of satellite data from NASA's International Satellite Cloud Climatology Project.

"Both air traffic and cirrus coverage increased during the period of warming, despite no changes in the NCEP humidity at jet-cruise altitudes over the United States," said Patrick Minnis, senior research scientist at NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia.

By contrast, humidity at flight altitudes decreased over other land areas, such as Asia, and was accompanied by less cirrus coverage, except over Western Europe, where air traffic is very heavy, Minnis said.

The trends in cirrus cover and warming over the United States were greatest during winter and spring, when contrails are most frequent. These results led to the conclusion that contrails caused the increase in cirrus clouds.

Exhaust from aircraft engines is hot and moist, the water vapor in them coming mostly from combustion of hydrogen in the aircraft's fuel. The exhaust takes a moment to cool and mix with the surrounding air, so there is normally a 50- to 100-meter gap behind an aircraft before the contrail appears.

Once formed, contrails are distorted and spread by upper winds. Curtains of ice crystals can sometimes be seen falling from them.

Humidity in the air determines how long contrails remain in the atmosphere. Persistent trails sometimes form large patches of fibrous clouds indistinguishable from natural cirrus, cirrocumulus or cirrostratus clouds, according to Malcolm Walker, of England's Royal Meteorological Society.

Contrails that persist for an extended period of time are most likely to affect the climate. Minnis has estimated that a contrail that begins as a thin gossamer line across the sky can spread to cover more than 20,000 square kilometers in just a few hours.

Not everyone was immediately convinced by Minnis' contrail conclusions.

"The idea that the Earth is warming and high cloudiness is increasing and therefore part of the warming is due to increasing high cloudiness is not logically valid, if one is considering observations only," said Andy Detwiler, a professor of atmospheric sciences at South Dakota School of Mines and Technology.

Correlation does not equate to causation, he said.

"So many processes affect the temperature of the Earth that contrails could easily be acting to cool the Earth, and yet the overall temperature trend could be increasing," Detwiler said.

Still, this is not the first study to connect contrails to the issue of global warming. In 1999, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change estimated that contrails from the world fleet of 12,000 civilian jetliners contribute as much to global warming as the carbon dioxide their engines emit burning jet fuel.

[gaiacomm]

An Open letter to Jews


With all of the hate against not just Jews but also other races it has become so confusing to understand why this is so. But I have noticed thru the years that Jews seem to always rise to the top of the hate list. I can understand this by first hand experience. Killing Jews seems to be a sport and in some cases even financially rewarding. Hating Jews seems to just fuel the fire.

So I wish to separate myself from the ones that wish to kill Jews and other hate crimes against humanity and ask any Jew anywhere on this planet to help me understand how you feel about these crimes and what can we do to work together and get to know one another. Understanding what it is like to be a Jew is a good start.

People have been murdering Jews for years and of course other races as well and it continues. I do recognize that fact but wish to focus on Jews right now since you all seem to be the topic of discussion everywhere.

Now, I am willing to listen and understand if you Jews are wiling to respond to this letter in your own words. I wish to know.

Granted it does give some pleasure to others to eliminate you Jews over reasons I still am trying to understand. Do you realize that if someone or group could get a nuclear or biological weapon they would use it on Israel without regard?

You Jews are marked for elimination wherever you are and only have the protection of the USA for now. But that is soon being edged away.

Defending yourselves is your right but so it is with anyone else including Palestine.

You Jews should consider sharing your lands with others and becoming two nations that work together for peace. Maybe the Arabs would take notice and even forgive the past.

But until then unfortunately you Jews will always be targets.

I am waiting for your honest response!



Waiting!

[halva]

What is Raynolds crapping on about now? Jim?? Anyone???

[whitemajikman]

An Open letter to Jews


With all of the hate against not just Jews but also other races it has become so confusing to understand why this is so. But I have noticed thru the years that Jews seem to always rise to the top of the hate list. I can understand this by first hand experience. Killing Jews seems to be a sport and in some cases even financially rewarding. Hating Jews seems to just fuel the fire.

So I wish to separate myself from the ones that wish to kill Jews and other hate crimes against humanity and ask any Jew anywhere on this planet to help me understand how you feel about these crimes and what can we do to work together and get to know one another. Understanding what it is like to be a Jew is a good start.

People have been murdering Jews for years and of course other races as well and it continues. I do recognize that fact but wish to focus on Jews right now since you all seem to be the topic of discussion everywhere.

Now, I am willing to listen and understand if you Jews are wiling to respond to this letter in your own words. I wish to know.

Granted it does give some pleasure to others to eliminate you Jews over reasons I still am trying to understand. Do you realize that if someone or group could get a nuclear or biological weapon they would use it on Israel without regard?

You Jews are marked for elimination wherever you are and only have the protection of the USA for now. But that is soon being edged away.

Defending yourselves is your right but so it is with anyone else including Palestine.

You Jews should consider sharing your lands with others and becoming two nations that work together for peace. Maybe the Arabs would take notice and even forgive the past.

But until then unfortunately you Jews will always be targets.

I am waiting for your honest response!


One question for you..........

Before I answer......

WHY NOW....?

What is it that has brought you to this point,to be willing to understand........?

WMM

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi Halva,

Per question:
"What is Raynolds crapping on about now? Jim?? Anyone???"
========

It is about the same old, same old. He is doing his typical obcession toward talking to you, when you're not even listening. The typical dismissing everything that you post.

And the same old same old propaganda on either climate change is natural or jet cloud seeding are figments of everyones imagination. The truth is "air pharmaclogy" methods do work and are in use all around the US. Why? Because the environment is indeed a very fragile element of out planet.

Same old broken record Raynolds plays on all the lists that begin to notice either manmade jets seeding clouds in the skies or that the world is heating up at the poles and melting the ice.

"Raynolds" or Jay Reynolds illogical rants do more to attract attention to the issues of jet planes seeding massive amounts of clouds in the skies they fly, with the highest concentrations of these seeded clouds being over land masses like the US and Europe. These are elements of the air pharmacology methods. Methods that help to keep the ocean plankton absorbing CO2 at a higher level than when poisoned by acid rain. Air pharmacology methods pull down more of the HF that would normally be pulled into higher concentration over the poles and aid polar ice melt rates. These are the mainstays of air pharmacolgy methods.

Jay Reynolds is calling the entire world's attention to the simple fact that jet plane cloud seeding makes for clouds and human induced rain over these areas. Human induced Rains that pull down more acids over land masses than over oceans. This increases the acid damage effects in these areas. Not to mention people have to cut their grass more and have more problems with flooding and erosion.

It is a cost trade off, either rain the acids down on the land or let them build and integrate build up over the poles that will lead to even more flooding of the world from the polar ice melts.

Following right along with the higher rates of acid rain are the higher levels of toxic metals like aluminum in the soils, that then enter the human food chain and link to problems from immune dysfunction, AIDS, Alzheimers, and prion illnesses.

Jay Reynolds is showing the entire world just how much he, his hate trio, and the fossil fuel companies fear this becoming well known and acknowledged.

Jay Reynolds and his hate broadcasting trio are becoming very well known for their infamy of hate. So very obvious they have become from this despiration to deceive everyone. To conceil such simple facts will prove impossible for them. They are on the verge of total self destruction.

IMHO,
is

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi Halva,

About the only thing to take note of from the hate crime trio of Raynolds, Yaak (aka Ed Snell), and Majicmarker Jew is this latest one that is typical toward their defaming of women. Not to mention is speaks of violence and assault, see below.

Also, the vapid Yaak can't seem to fathom that jet cloud seeding increases the acid rain problems, particularly with HF and the AlFx problems. Which go to associate with problems like AIDS, Alzheimers, and prion illnesses.

Yaak's CAD training and lack of a formal college education shows that he cannot make the simplest associations like fluorides upset the trace metals balance in nature and in humans. Plus, Yaak rages at people who have been to college and know much more than how to draw lines with a computer and training from a 1 year school of some sort.

Fluoride is a catalist that raises the retention of Aluminum in humans and lowers the levels of good metals like manganese (see addl note below), which is a principle AIDS factor. AIDS in Africa follows the footprint of the East African Rift Zone and the associated high levels of fluoride in the food and water most strongly.

So, from the infamous trio of hate what is seen most is the propensity toward words of violence and hate from them. Belittling of women. All the way to such blatant ignorance of not connecting the reason for the titanium in the chemtrails methods is to offset the fluoride-metal complex formations.

Then again, what does one expect in nature of pigs, but a grunt. We are not dealing with intelligent people with these three.

IMHO,
is

===========
Yaak's message #4195 with word of violance and assault

Yaak
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Yaak, MT
Posts: 76

Jim Phelps, Mother Nature's Fool
Ah, but it's a sad day again in message board land for Jimmy-boy Phelps. He insists on posting at the Tampa Bay IndyMedia Forum even though nobody there wants him to. He received another severe bitch-slapping after posting a link to his own web site.

====

Yaak's message #4145, again with word of violence and assault

Yaak
Member Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Yaak, MT
Posts: 76

There's no fool like an old fool named Jim Phelps
Jimmy receives a well deserved bitch-slapping at Tampa Bay IndyMedia
http://www.tampaindymedia.org/phpbb...6121e57048f016f
Way to go, Jimmy.!

========
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-04/jhmi-mbh042502.php

Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions

Manganese blocks HIV replication; Lab finding points to potential new class of HIV treatments

Johns Hopkins scientists have found that simply increasing manganese in cells can halt HIV's unusual ability to process its genetic information backwards, providing a new way to target the process's key driver, an enzyme called reverse transcriptase.
By measuring DNA produced by a related reverse transcriptase in yeast, the Hopkins team discovered that higher than normal levels of manganese, caused by a defective gene, dramatically lowered the enzyme's activity. The scientists then proved that HIV's reverse transcriptase responds to manganese in the same way.

Hopkins graduate student Eric Bolton determined that the defective gene is PMR1, whose protein carries both manganese and calcium out of cells. Using special yeast developed by others at Hopkins, he discovered that manganese stops reverse transcriptase, the team reports in the April 26 issue of Molecular Cell.

"These results really point to a never-before-proposed way to try to stop HIV in its tracks -- that simply manipulating concentrations of a metal, manganese, can have a profound effect on reverse transcriptase," says Jef Boeke, Ph.D., professor of molecular biology and genetics at the school's Institute for Basic Biomedical Sciences. "We expect the human equivalent of PMR1 could be a good target for developing new drugs against HIV."

Retroviruses like HIV use reverse transcriptase to make copies of their DNA from RNA, the opposite of how genetic information is usually processed in cells. Each retrovirus has a distinct version of the enzyme, identical in function but different in form and sequence, says Boeke, also a professor of oncology.

The scientists found that each reverse transcriptase they studied has at least two places where manganese and the similar metal magnesium can "dock." Having these spots filled with the right metal is crucial for the enzyme's activity -- its ability to read a particular set of RNA, the scientists learned. When the metals' balance is out of whack, the enzyme doesn't work properly, they report.

====

[Yaak]

I guess Jimmy is proud of these, so in case you missed them the first two times, here they are again (though I fail to find violence or assault in them):




===========
Yaak's message #4195 with word of violance and assault

Yaak
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Yaak, MT
Posts: 76

Jim Phelps, Mother Nature's Fool
Ah, but it's a sad day again in message board land for Jimmy-boy Phelps. He insists on posting at the Tampa Bay IndyMedia Forum even though nobody there wants him to. He received another severe bitch-slapping after posting a link to his own web site.

====

Yaak's message #4145, again with word of violence and assault

Yaak
Member Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Yaak, MT
Posts: 76

There's no fool like an old fool named Jim Phelps
Jimmy receives a well deserved bitch-slapping at Tampa Bay IndyMedia
http://www.tampaindymedia.org/phpbb...6121e57048f016f
Way to go, Jimmy.!

============
Have you no shame, Jimmy? Aren't you embarrassed by anything?

Thank you for the entertainment.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
:D
.
.
.

[jayreynolds]

Actually, Yaak, I find the recent postings by Deborah xxxxx(aka footsoldier) the funniest.
She was one of the original carnicom crowd, a real groupie for the old chicken necked geek. posted thousands upon thousands of "climate change" horror stories on his lesser-used forums, in some she was practically the only one that EVER posted.

And what good did it do?

None whatsoever.

Back in those days, she was absolutely prohibited from ever posting about how ordinary contrails could persist and grow. She demonized me and others when we told her this was true.

Deborah and her friends, see, found the idea an absurd heresy, they called THOSE THINGS "chemtrails", and there was no talking them out of the idea. If you did, you were a government agent,a DEBUNKER, or someone "derailing chemtrail activists". She and her cohorts even spearheaded a campaign AGAINST what Patrick Minnis was saying, calling him a "NASA disinformation agent". Now she posts AGREEING WITH HIM!

And so we've come full circle. Deborah NOW agrees with Jay Reynolds, and no longer participates substantively at Carnicom's board, which has fallen into as much absurdity as this one.

For Carnicom's, as well as this, are places in which Deborah's THOUSANDS of postings will never be seen by anyone, and even if they did, the context of the board itself is so ridden with lunacy, religious and racial extremism, and just plain hypocrisy that it amounts to absolutely nothing at all to anyone who matters.
And that is all for the better.

I find it very fitting that Deborah has imprisoned herself, negated herself, and most of all, come to admit through her actions that Jay Reynolds was right all along, they were just contrails, after all.

[jayreynolds]

Have you no shame, Jimmy? Aren't you embarrassed by anything?
Thank you for the entertainment.
I've gotten a load of laughs out of Jimbo myself. A welcome diversion.
His best use is probably as the "insane clown troll", which we can use whenever a messageboard needs corrupting. Just send Jimbo Phelps in whenever you need to have the whole bunch of chemmies discredited. Look at what he did to the tampabay indymedia people, they'll never in a million years have anything whatsoever to do with the "chemtrails" hoax ever again, simply because it is associated with Jim Phelps.

Works for me.

Wayne and Deborah, don't even think you can turn him off, either. The more you push Jimbo, the more he pushes back. If push goes to shove, he'll turn on you and begin following you all around the net like an insane hound dog, chomping at your heels and discrediting you everywhere he goes. Plus, anytime I like I can just turn haarp on and blast his pea-brain with a dose of barium, like my own personal 'Manchrian candidate'.

[foot_soldier]

As usual, Reynolds, you are lying, distorting and misrepresenting the facts of this matter. I can't stop you, obviously, so just go ahead and continue posting your crap. Whatever makes you feel big and powerful.

I've been on to you for years now, with your "I told you it was just contrails" bullshit. There is much more to it than that. You always manage to derail substantive discussion of the true picture where aircraft emissions are concerned - and this is, of course, deliberate and calculated, given your support for and investment in the aviation and fossil fuel sectors and your well-known "contrarian" position on the climate change issue. In fact you love it that people are more focused on "chemtrails" than on "business as usual" contrails and the damage they are doing to our atmosphere. It would really be a problem, wouldn't it, if more people knew the truth about this situation. Well, the European media is a lot more open about it than the media in the U.S. and it looks like the Europeans are actually making some headway in the public education department. You're going to have to find another issue to manipulate public perception on, and reasonably soon I would say.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi F_S,

Yes, Jay Reynolds is totally cracking up. Now he fashions that he is in charge of the HAARP system and using that on persons to enact his agendas. That plays as absolutely nutty to all except those in his little hate trio.

I'd say that pretty much ends his dreams of any sort of creadibilty. He has gone so far out on that limb, that he has falled miserably and no one can put humpty-dumpy Reynolds back together again. His insanity consumes him and his helpers. Their hate pours from every word. They can't manage to contort the abundant science anymore.

The jet plane plume problems will come out in Europe and they will run over the cover ups in the US. Europe has already forced the man-made global warming into the public's realities and more will come quicky. There will come to be heavy hitting environmental impact statements on jet plane modification of weather via cloud seeding.

One little thing that Reynolds forgets is that this type global environmental problem is a part of Bible prophicies and when he and his hate crime trio attack persons for their religious beliefs in rabbi Jesus and the New Testament, that become a Hate Crime defintion.

Soon enough, all of Christendom will awaken and all the masses will come for persons like Reynolds and his hate crime trio. Off to prison they should go.

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

Blah...Blah....Blah...

[gaiacomm]

One question for you..........

Before I answer......

WHY NOW....?

What is it that has brought you to this point,to be willing to understand........?

WMM


Because I wish to know!

Because there is not much quality time left to waste.

[gaiacomm]

An Open letter to Jews


With all of the hate against not just Jews but also other races it has become so confusing to understand why this is so. But I have noticed thru the years that Jews seem to always rise to the top of the hate list. I can understand this by first hand experience. Killing Jews seems to be a sport and in some cases even financially rewarding. Hating Jews seems to just fuel the fire.

So I wish to separate myself from the ones that wish to kill Jews and other hate crimes against humanity and ask any Jew anywhere on this planet to help me understand how you feel about these crimes and what can we do to work together and get to know one another. Understanding what it is like to be a Jew is a good start.

People have been murdering Jews for years and of course other races as well and it continues. I do recognize that fact but wish to focus on Jews right now since you all seem to be the topic of discussion everywhere.

Now, I am willing to listen and understand if you Jews are wiling to respond to this letter in your own words. I wish to know.

Granted it does give some pleasure to others to eliminate you Jews over reasons I still am trying to understand. Do you realize that if someone or group could get a nuclear or biological weapon they would use it on Israel without regard?

You Jews are marked for elimination wherever you are and only have the protection of the USA for now. But that is soon being edged away.

Defending yourselves is your right but so it is with anyone else including Palestine.

You Jews should consider sharing your lands with others and becoming two nations that work together for peace. Maybe the Arabs would take notice and even forgive the past.

But until then unfortunately you Jews will always be targets.

I am waiting for your honest response!



Anyone care to answer?

[halva]

As usual, Reynolds, you are lying, distorting and misrepresenting the facts of this matter. I can't stop you, obviously, so just go ahead and continue posting your crap. Whatever makes you feel big and powerful.

I've been on to you for years now, with your "I told you it was just contrails" bullshit. There is much more to it than that. You always manage to derail substantive discussion of the true picture where aircraft emissions are concerned - and this is, of course, deliberate and calculated, given your support for and investment in the aviation and fossil fuel sectors and your well-known "contrarian" position on the climate change issue. In fact you love it that people are more focused on "chemtrails" than on "business as usual" contrails and the damage they are doing to our atmosphere. It would really be a problem, wouldn't it, if more people knew the truth about this situation. Well, the European media is a lot more open about it than the media in the U.S. and it looks like the Europeans are actually making some headway in the public education department. You're going to have to find another issue to manipulate public perception on, and reasonably soon I would say.

Deborah, you know quite well that Raynolds does not always derail substantive discussion but for some strange reason you want to humour him in his delusion that he does have this ability.

In fact he is an anthropogenic climate change 'sceptic' and thus excluded from the debate between climate scientists and 'chemtrails' activists.

The big-time climate change sceptics have unfortunately not yet been excluded from the debate. But Raynolds is excludable from now because he is a not a big-timer. He is a little-timer.

Evidence of that is his having been assigned to (or volunteering for) the task of persecuting 'chemmies', who include the most exposed, vulnerable, distressed and desperate sections of the population.

He likes his job (or self-appointed task) of kicking around the weak. But we are stronger than him and we will be his nemesis.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

The US dictatorship overrulled. Send the Saudis and Bush a bill from each country that looses land mass from the CO-2 warming effects.

IMHO,
is


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/environment/story.jsp?story=594502


US Fails In Bid To Kill Off
Global Warming Talks
By Geoffrey Lean
Environment Editor
The Independent - UK
12-19-4

Governments from around the world [Saturday] narrowly succeeded in keeping
the international bid to combat catastrophic global warming alive, in the face
of determined attempts by the re-elected Bush administration to kill it off.

Top negotiators described the effort - at a special UN conference in Buenos
Aires - as like hanging on to a cliff face by their "fingernails", as the
United States and oil-producing countries threw rock after rock to try to dislodge
them.

More than 36 hours after the conference was supposed to have ended -
following two all-night negotiating sessions, and while workmen were physically
dismantling the facilities around them - delegates finally agreed on a series of
compromises that avoided complete breakdown and kept some life in the
negotiations.

The US said that "on balance" it was "very pleased with the outcome", but its
obdurate obstruction of even anodyne proposals at the two-week conference
bodes ill for the future of the talks, which are designed to hammer out the next
tough steps to be taken after the Kyoto Protocol runs its course in 2012.

It will also sharply increase the pressure on Tony Blair, who has committed
himself to making progress on combating global warming - and involving the US
in the effort - one of the key priorities for his leadership of the G8 group of
the world's most powerful countries next year. Even before the cliff-hanger
conference, Downing Street was increasingly at a loss about how it was going to
fulfil the worldwide expectations raised by the Prime Minister in two
high-profile speeches this year on what he describes as "long term, the single most
important issue facing the global community".

The US performance in Buenos Aires appears to fly in the face of a commitment
given by President Bush in 2001, when he announced that the US would withdraw
from the protocol that it had previously played a key part in negotiating. In
the face of international outrage, he said then that even though it was
pulling out, the US would do nothing to obstruct other countries trying to reach
agreement. By and large it has kept to this position since, at least in public,
believing that the protocol was doomed without its participation.

But this autumn Washington was shocked and angered when Russia agreed to
ratify the protocol - completing the number of countries needed, under its complex
rules, to bring it into force. Environmentalists say that the re-elected Bush
administration has decided to do everything it can to sabotage any further
international measures, and is not concerned about the international
condemnation it will incur in the process.

This transformed the Buenos Aires conference, which was expected to be a
routine and relatively uncontroversial meeting, the last before negotiations on
the follow-up to Kyoto begin in earnest next November. Its chairman, Raul
Estrada-Oyuela, an Argentinian diplomat who played a central role in the negotiation
of the protocol seven years ago, proposed an apparently inoffensive series of
informal meetings over next year to prepare the ground for the talks.

But this was vigorously opposed by the US, which insisted there could only be
one informal meeting, and that no ideas for the future could be discussed at
it. The Americans also objected to mentions of the need to tackle global
warming as opposed to adapting to it, and backed an extraordinary demand from Saudi
Arabia that oil-producing states should receive billions of dollars in
compensation from the rest of the world if they burned less oil.

Eventually a single meeting that could discuss the future was agreed for next
May, and other uneasy compromises were reached, preventing total breakdown.
"It is a finger-hold, like hanging on by your nails," says Michael Zammit
Cutajar, a veteran climate negotiator for Malta who was for 11 years executive
secretary of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Even the Eskimos can see the effects of global warming, as God turns up the light of the night at the pole. Even poor Rudolph, Santa's reindeer, is being affected by these global pollution problems.

The ugly Jay Reynolds hate trio would be out attempting to stick their knives in Rudolf's veins and drain his blood out for complaigning and exposing the problems, while throwing rocks at people saying Rudolf is not needed to children because we have pollution.

These are beastly grinches.

IMHO,
is


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/environment/story.jsp?story=594566


Mysterious Arctic Light
Blamed On Climate Change
By Geoffrey Lean
Environment Editor
The Independent - UK
12-19-4

Santa and his reindeer will be able to see their way better than ever on
Christmas Eve, for a mysterious light is beginning to brighten the dark polar
winter.

Eskimos and scientists report a strange "lightness at noon" that is turning
the usual all-day darkness of the high Canadian Arctic into twilight,
apparently in defiance of natural laws. Canadian government officials say it may be the
result of an unusual atmospheric phenomenon caused by global warming.

Inuit hunters are telling the government's weather station at Resolute Bay -
Canada's second most northerly village, 1,000 miles from the North Pole - of a
new light in the sky.

And Wayne Davidson, the Canadian government official who runs the station,
says he believes it it caused by climate change.

For the past five years, Mr Davidson says, there has been a growing light
along the horizon in the middle of the day in winter. "The entire horizon is
raised like magic, like the hand of God is bringing it up," he says.

But Mr Davidson's investigations, backed by other scientists, suggest a more
prosaic explanation. Warmer air, from global warming, is overlaying the cold
air of the Arctic and the interface between the two creates a kind of "mirror
in the sky" which reflects the sun's rays from further south.

So this Christmas Santa may be able to ignore Rudolph's red-nose and rely on
pollution from the world's chimneys to find his way down them.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Gaia querries:

"Because I wish to know!
Because there is not much quality time left to waste."

=========

Gaia,

This is the Christmas season, don't you know? Shall you recognize the full reasons for the season?

The simple reason is there was only one honest Jewish Rabbi in the history of Judism and the corrupt Rabbis killed him.

He told the truth about the others and he is the reason for the season. His truth reigned supreme and it still does.

Do you really expect one of these NWO Mason-Jews to tell the truth on anything? Most of them can't even say the word Jesus or admit Jesus and the New Testament prophecy was/is right.

They attack the New Testaments prophicies that present the issues of climate change, as well as the issues of these corrupted Jewish Rabbis causing wars.

Jay Reynolds, Yaak (Ed Snell), and the Jewish-Mason are an assault upon Jesus himself and the prophicies of the New Testament. These Jesus haters are in despiration to stop the second coming from materializing in the minds of the Christian masses and their defeat on all counts.

A Christian Nation will rise up against them, and their Bush anti-Christ.

IMHO,
is

[jayreynolds]

As usual, Reynolds, you are lying, distorting and misrepresenting the facts of this matter. I can't stop you, obviously, so just go ahead and continue posting your crap. Whatever makes you feel big and powerful.

I've been on to you for years now, with your "I told you it was just contrails" bullshit. There is much more to it than that. You always manage to derail substantive discussion of the true picture where aircraft emissions are concerned - and this is, of course, deliberate and calculated, given your support for and investment in the aviation and fossil fuel sectors and your well-known "contrarian" position on the climate change issue. In fact you love it that people are more focused on "chemtrails" than on "business as usual" contrails and the damage they are doing to our atmosphere. It would really be a problem, wouldn't it, if more people knew the truth about this situation. .

Well, Deborah rises up out of the mud to shake her puny fist.

Here is a thread from two years ago wherein you and your cohorts persecuted Patrick Minnis, who you knew was banned from the Carnicom board. YOU went along with it. YOU said nothing, and then YOU went on to try and work him over at chemtrailccentral, for telling the truth.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030105162435/pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtrailschemtrails.showMessageRange?topicID=588 8.topic&start=21&stop=34

http://web.archive.org/web/20021015133702/www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001083.html

Deborah, you can't deny any of this. You have come full circle and will never support the 'chemtrails" hoax again. However, it's too little, too late. Your credibility, which was practically non-existant, is gone. You are no longer a player, as are Chem11, Don Johnson, Mark sky, and "sore throat". You lost. Dr Minnis and I have won.

Cock-a-doodle-doo!

[gaiacomm]

Gaia querries:

"Because I wish to know!
Because there is not much quality time left to waste."

=========

Gaia,

This is the Christmas season, don't you know? Shall you recognize the full reasons for the season?

The simple reason is there was only one honest Jewish Rabbi in the history of Judism and the corrupt Rabbis killed him.

He told the truth about the others and he is the reason for the season. His truth reigned supreme and it still does.

Do you really expect one of these NWO Mason-Jews to tell the truth on anything? Most of them can't even say the word Jesus or admit Jesus and the New Testament prophecy was/is right.

They attack the New Testaments prophicies that present the issues of climate change, as well as the issues of these corrupted Jewish Rabbis causing wars.

Jay Reynolds, Yaak (Ed Snell), and the Jewish-Mason are an assault upon Jesus himself and the prophicies of the New Testament. These Jesus haters are in despiration to stop the second coming from materializing in the minds of the Christian masses and their defeat on all counts.

A Christian Nation will rise up against them, and their Bush anti-Christ.

IMHO,
is


Interestting.

Anyway you and your family have a blessed Christmas!

[foot_soldier]

3/8/2002

A 10/30/01 NY Times report on Dr. Minnis' recent post-Sept. 11 study states the following:

.....This veil-like type of cloud allows sunlight in to warm the earth and traps some of the rising heat before it can radiate into space.....

The "veil-like cloud type" being referred to here is stated to be the result of "narrow contrails" which spread out to cover large areas of the sky at 25,000 feet and higher.

The NY Times article goes on to state the following, in regard to satellite images collected on Sept. 12, 2001:

.....The most valuable data were collected the next day [Sept. 12.] Only nine military flights crossed a region from Ohio to Virginia, an area normally cloaked in cirrus clouds from the 700 to 800 jets crossing daily, Dr. Minnis said. With those images, his team was able to chart precisely how those nine threadlike contrails fanned out over five hours to form a shield of cirrus clouds covering 24,000 square miles.....


24,000 square miles of a [heat-trapping] "shield of cirrus clouds" from "nine threadlike contrails."

That's pretty impressive.

Nothing to be concerned about THERE, right?

What I was trying to point out here is that a “heat-trapping shield of cirrus clouds” from spreading, persistent contrails is something I think people should be concerned about. Twist it all you want to, Reynolds - I know what I said and I know what I meant. You’re the one who keeps obfuscating the issue with, among other things, your spurious analogies to “all those persistent contrails from WWII fighter jets” and how that example “proves” that there’s nothing wrong with what many people are now [b]routinely seeing over their heads – skies being strafed with aviation emissions for the last 5-6 years from any number of the tens of thousands of flights per day over the continental U.S. and Europe.

As for the other thread you’ve "presented into evidence”, please locate specifically where I posted on that one because I can’t find anything. And while you’re at it, let’s have evidence, including direct links, to any post anywhere wherein I’ve “encouraged” racist commentary. If you’re going to make allegations like that you should be prepared to back them up. Good luck.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Gaia reinterates:

"Interestting.
Anyway you and your family have a blessed Christmas!"
========
Same to you.

You asked why there are so many instances of pograms against the Jews all down through history. And this is also very obvious and intuitive. From the Rabbi Jesus we saw that he objected to the men who would play god teachings of the Pharisee and Sandhedron Councils of Rabbis. Jesus was teaching the higher reasoning for God, which was against much of the Torah and Talmud. Jesus went against these power seeking rabbis of these times. He was a Whistlerblower type and was attacked.

The rest of the problem lies in these same artifacts, the wrong teachings for god. The Jews have always been ones to infiltrate various Govts in Europe and attempt to take control of them monetarily and via high level decision making. The Jews always tend to set up an effect that is called a "state within a state" effect, where they compete against the power of the state.

So, in literally thousands of cases in history these Jews that attempted to control the state were either run off, walled up in ghettos, or killed in massive wars against them. It seems to be instilled in the Jews that they must always attempt to run things and cease control slowly of Govts. They are also into percentage games to make money, either in banking or in merchandising. This is how we saw the Rothschilds become the banking moguls of Europe.

The Jews methods of seeking to control and monetary dominate countries also start to look like a form of fascim. And literally all these games around Europe has bathed the continent in blood of many wars.

It is obvious in the forming up of WWII, that Hitler came out against the Jews in the German Govt and the banking sanctions against Germany. So, Hitler banned the Jews in high places of Govt. So, in New York we see the Jews announce in the New York Times that they decaired war on Hitler.

Next thing we know the war breaks out over this money and control scandal, and Hitler takes the peoples that declaired war on him and Germany and puts them in concentration camps. One of the more famous slogans on the iron gates of these camps was "Work and Ye Shall Be Free." As the war became worse and worse, they literally worked many of the Jews and other people tossed into these concentration camps to death.

The central thesis behind all these wars and state within a state probem for the last several thousand years has been these false teachings on god by these Jewish Rabbis that are more concerned with a NWO with themselves at the head of the table.

Nothing really has changed in these many thousands of years of the same ole same ole ways of the Jews. We are at the peak of another of these cycles of the Jews attempting to control things and being found out.

Even in the history of the US, we see the Rothschilds system of control effected the death of Abe Lincoln via Booth, because Lincoln would not pay the Rothschilds interests. The Rothschilds were attempting to gain control of the US via financing both sides of the Civil War in the US.

See: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/slavery.htm

Even when we get into the issues of JFK, these same control factions were involved. Oak Ridge knew the Jewish Rothschilds were involved in the hit on Lincoln, so they solicited the help to cover up the crime of killing JFK for a power Coup. Today, there is much braggig about how the Jews and Israel control the US. It comes from these same old methods. Methods that tend to work until the people wake up and rise up against the fascists.

Jesus even made predictions of great environmental problems to accompany these end-times/armageddon problems. And we see this in the damage to the oceans, the damage to trees, the great plagues to human and animal health. Much of the predictions are coming to pass. And in addition to Jesus being a whistleblower on the false teachings of god by the corrupt Rabbis seeking world power, we also see Rabbi Jesus being pretty much an Environmentalist due to making the predictions we see today on weather and health problems.

And who do we see trying to cover the mess up, the bankers and the corrupted Govt types that have been dancing with the Jewish factions (Bush-NeoCons) to promote a NWO. All based upon one central lie.

IMHO,
is

[The Shadow]

Mr. Reynolds, perhaps it would ease your soul to get off your chest the burden of your involvement in the death of William Cooper. I truly believe that you will feel such release once you have confessed. Your special brand of mind control is potentially deadly. That you are obsessed to the point of psychosis is more than evident in everything you write. I am certain that Mr. Cooper must have trusted you with his life. For that error in judgment, he evidently paid the ultimate price.

How ironic it is that the Internet always yields the truth whenever it is you who is feeding the search engine. Newspaper articles are never embellished any time you are doing the “research.” Judges and the court system are beyond reproach each time their findings happen to serve your cause.

Beware, Mr. Reynolds. The weeds of crime bear bitter fruit. You will know this firsthand as you one day draw your last breath.

The Shadow knows...

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Shadow writes:

"Mr. Reynolds, perhaps it would ease your soul to get off your chest the burden of your involvement in the death of William Cooper. "

=====
How about some details. When did Cooper die and from what?
What was he finding that might pertain to motives?

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

Gaia reinterates:

"Interestting.
Anyway you and your family have a blessed Christmas!"
========
Same to you.

You asked why there are so many instances of pograms against the Jews all down through history. And this is also very obvious and intuitive. From the Rabbi Jesus we saw that he objected to the men who would play god teachings of the Pharisee and Sandhedron Councils of Rabbis. Jesus was teaching the higher reasoning for God, which was against much of the Torah and Talmud. Jesus went against these power seeking rabbis of these times. He was a Whistlerblower type and was attacked.

The rest of the problem lies in these same artifacts, the wrong teachings for god. The Jews have always been ones to infiltrate various Govts in Europe and attempt to take control of them monetarily and via high level decision making. The Jews always tend to set up an effect that is called a "state within a state" effect, where they compete against the power of the state.

So, in literally thousands of cases in history these Jews that attempted to control the state were either run off, walled up in ghettos, or killed in massive wars against them. It seems to be instilled in the Jews that they must always attempt to run things and cease control slowly of Govts. They are also into percentage games to make money, either in banking or in merchandising. This is how we saw the Rothschilds become the banking moguls of Europe.

The Jews methods of seeking to control and monetary dominate countries also start to look like a form of fascim. And literally all these games around Europe has bathed the continent in blood of many wars.

It is obvious in the forming up of WWII, that Hitler came out against the Jews in the German Govt and the banking sanctions against Germany. So, Hitler banned the Jews in high places of Govt. So, in New York we see the Jews announce in the New York Times that they decaired war on Hitler.

Next thing we know the war breaks out over this money and control scandal, and Hitler takes the peoples that declaired war on him and Germany and puts them in concentration camps. One of the more famous slogans on the iron gates of these camps was "Work and Ye Shall Be Free." As the war became worse and worse, they literally worked many of the Jews and other people tossed into these concentration camps to death.

The central thesis behind all these wars and state within a state probem for the last several thousand years has been these false teachings on god by these Jewish Rabbis that are more concerned with a NWO with themselves at the head of the table.

Nothing really has changed in these many thousands of years of the same ole same ole ways of the Jews. We are at the peak of another of these cycles of the Jews attempting to control things and being found out.

Even in the history of the US, we see the Rothschilds system of control effected the death of Abe Lincoln via Booth, because Lincoln would not pay the Rothschilds interests. The Rothschilds were attempting to gain control of the US via financing both sides of the Civil War in the US.

Even when we get into the issues of JFK, these same control factions were involved. Oak Ridge knew the Jewish Rothschilds were involved in the hit on Lincoln, so they solicited the help to cover up the crime of killing JFK for a power Coup. Today, there is much braggig about how the Jews and Israel control the US. It comes from these same old methods. Methods that tend to work until the people wake up and rise up against the fascists.

Jesus even made predictions of great environmental problems to accompany these end-times/armageddon problems. And we see this in the damage to the oceans, the damage to trees, the great plagues to human and animal health. Much of the predictions are coming to pass. And in addition to Jesus being a whistleblower on the false teachings of god by the corrupt Rabbis seeking world power, we also see Rabbi Jesus being pretty much an Environmentalist due to making the predictions we see today on weather and health problems.

And who do we see trying to cover the mess up, the bankers and the corrupted Govt types that have been dancing with the Jewish factions (Bush-NeoCons) to promote a NWO. All based upon one central lie.

IMHO,
is


Yes, I understand!

[halva]

What I was trying to point out here is that a “heat-trapping shield of cirrus clouds” from spreading, persistent contrails is something I think people should be concerned about. Twist it all you want to, Reynolds - I know what I said and I know what I meant. You’re the one who keeps obfuscating the issue with, among other things, your spurious analogies to “all those persistent contrails from WWII fighter jets” and how that example “proves” that there’s nothing wrong with what many people are now routinely seeing over their heads – skies being strafed with aviation emissions for the last 5-6 years from any number of the tens of thousands of flights per day over the continental U.S. and Europe.

As for the other thread you’ve "presented into evidence”, please locate specifically where I posted on that one because I can’t find anything. And while you’re at it, let’s have evidence, including direct links, to any post anywhere wherein I’ve “encouraged” racist commentary. If you’re going to make allegations like that you should be prepared to back them up. Good luck.

In my recent postings I have expressed bemused lack of understanding at why footsoldier doesn't just press the delete button on Raynolds: ignore-list him.

Charges of 'racism' from Raynolds???? Does he really think he can successfully play us on that particular checkerboard??? Come on now!!!!

But I begin to see, foot_soldier. You are luring him into providing the rope from which we are going to hang him.

Good.

Keep it up.

[jayreynolds]

As for the other thread you’ve "presented into evidence”, please locate specifically where I posted on that one because I can’t find anything. And while you’re at it, let’s have evidence, including direct links, to any post anywhere wherein I’ve “encouraged” racist commentary. If you’re going to make allegations like that you should be prepared to back them up. Good luck.[/color]

Deborah, when you allied yourself with the people who persecuted 'dogbreath/canex', and didn't speak out when he presented truthful information and was banned, then hounded, you implicated yourself by acquiescence and acceptance of the behavior of "sore", Chem11, wisequakker, and the rest.

Likewise, though you may not have actually posted racist comments YOURSELF, here at arianna's, you allied yourself with those who did, and NEVER spoke out against them.

You surely encouraged Jimbo, Liakopoulos, and Gaiacomm by your lack of opposition, just as much as the Vatican encouraged Hitler by accomodation.

It's called being an "accessory".

[jayreynolds]

[COLOR=Black][FONT=Arial]Mr. Reynolds, perhaps it would ease your soul to get off your chest the burden of your involvement in the death of William Cooper. I truly believe that you will feel such release once you have confessed. Your special brand of mind control is potentially deadly. That you are obsessed to the point of psychosis is more than evident in everything you write. I am certain that Mr. Cooper must have trusted you with his life. For that error in judgment, he evidently paid the ultimate price.

Looks like Diane Harvey has gone off the deep end. bill said goodbye to me, and many of his other friends months before he died. He was shot by county sheriffs executing a warrant for Bil's arrest stemming from a property dispute. I live two states away and hadn't seen him for two years prior. Personally, and he actualy stated this publicly, he chose to die by his own actions, and simply wouldn't allow himself to be encarcerated, for any reason. The matter was actually small, the deputies chose to arrest him by a subterfuge in which they concealed their identity during the night, and this probably contributed to the sad outcome.

It's a symptom of your sickness and desperation, Diane, that you would accuse me of involvement in the death of a friend, because you think it would hurt me.

It doesn't.

[gaiacomm]

Can we all just share a Christmas moment for one day at least?

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Gaia writes:

"Can we all just share a Christmas moment for one day at least?"
======

Sure---Christmas moments happen on Dec. 25.

Until then, the daily vigil to expose those that want to poison the world goes on.

Until Christmas Gaia, I want you to think long and hard about the term "El Nino." "El Nino" is the typical term used for the "Christ Child" in Spanish. El Nino is also the term assigned to a climate anomoly in the equitorial Pacific that dumped torrents of rain on Califoria, Texas, etc.

The climatologists named the effect after the Second Coming prophicies. Make sure you recognise and connect the effect as you honor the Christ birth on Christmas day.

El Nino effects pull down more acid rain effects, much like the jet cloud seeding effects. With the enhanced rainfall of acid rain over lands comes the rise in the toxic metals like aluminum, and the fall of essential trace metals like manganese. AlFx screws up the lymph node dendritic cells and T-cells via G-proteins, and the F-metal complex with manganese renders it unavailable to protect cells from HIV. Another one of the Chist's great predictions was vast health plagues.

IMHO,
is

[foot_soldier]

Looks like Reynolds is the one who's "going off the deep end."

You're beginning to sound like a carping, gossipy old queen, Jay. Too bad you don't know what you're talking about. You're really grasping at straws at this point.

And for the record I don't support racist commentary or behavior. Gee, it's a shame, isn't it, that just about *anybody* can come into a thread and regularly post racist or similarly offensive kinds of crap thereby setting up all other thread participants as "accessories" to it.

[gaiacomm]

I see that there is Jew haters and those that wish to Kill Jews! And there are those that do not!

Is there pleasure in killing Jews? And for what to watch them burn? Jews are not the chosen people; it’s just that they wish to be heard! As with any one else.

How many of you could actually Kill a Jew? I think not. Killing is wrong and not the way to peace.

Jews have just as much rights as anyone else!

Being cruel to one another will only insight more pain and suffering for many.

I just asked a simple question to the Jews and they cannot even listen, they reacted and not responded.

[halva]

Kyoto still unloved, but ideas plea as climate policy drifts from US
By John Garnaut
December 21, 2004


The Australian Government is considering carbon "currencies" and has sought other innovative measures to build climate change policies beyond the Kyoto protocol.

The Environment Minister, Ian Campbell, said a conference in Australia in April would discuss new, flexible systems that were the antithesis of Kyoto's "centralised, top-down system of capped targets and taxes".

He wanted proposals that could be applied to specific sectors without having a blunt impact across the economy.

"To build the necessary global consensus you're going to need some very lateral thinking," Senator Campbell said. "We're trying to solve a policy problem that hasn't really been confronted by mankind before."

The comments from Senator Campbell came after he revealed a "subtle" split with the US, which is opposed to a new climate change framework, saying Australia was prepared to engage in a new post-Kyoto agreement provided the US and developing countries were involved.

Australia and the US, the only two developed countries not to sign the Kyoto protocol, had previously been in step on the greenhouse gas issue and in opposition to Kyoto.

Advertisement
AdvertisementSenator Campbell said his early preference was to develop a series of climate change "currencies".

"You need to be developing a range of currencies that are related to energy efficiency and intensity. You want more output for fewer greenhouse inputs," he said. "My idea is to create a credits system that isn't a tax, it's like a coupon. Once you move to an international system, these coupons will begin to have value. It will find its place in the market."

Senator Campbell said he was "very sympathetic" to a model put forward by Professor Warwick McKibbin, an economist at the Lowy Institute.

The proposal would leave it to individual governments to apply a fixed cost on greenhouse emissions, with that cost agreed globally and applied uniformly across countries.

Businesses and consumers would then be left to determine whether any given gas-emitting activity was worth that cost.

For example, carbon emissions would cost $10 a tonne, financed either by owning or buying a permit or paying that fee as a tax to the government.

Tradeable permits, both annual and long term, could be issued to existing users for free or new users at a cost.


The Government is considering carbon "currencies" and has sought other innovative measures to build climate change policies beyond the Kyoto protocol.

The Environment Minister, Ian Campbell, said a conference in Australia in April would discuss new, flexible systems that were the antithesis of Kyoto's "centralised, top-down system of capped targets and taxes".

He wanted proposals that could be applied to specific sectors without having a blunt impact across the economy.

"To build the necessary global consensus you're going to need some very lateral thinking," Senator Campbell said. "We're trying to solve a policy problem that hasn't really been confronted by mankind before."

The comments from Senator Campbell came after he revealed a "subtle" split with the US, which is opposed to a new climate change framework, saying Australia was prepared to engage in a new post-Kyoto agreement provided the US and developing countries were involved.

Australia and the US, the only two developed countries not to sign the Kyoto protocol, had previously been in step on the greenhouse gas issue and in opposition to Kyoto.

Senator Campbell said his early preference was to develop a series of climate change "currencies".

"You need to be developing a range of currencies that are related to energy efficiency and intensity. You want more output for fewer greenhouse inputs," he said. "My idea is to create a credits system that isn't a tax, it's like a coupon. Once you move to an international system, these coupons will begin to have value. It will find its place in the market."

Senator Campbell said he was "very sympathetic" to a model put forward by Professor Warwick McKibbin, an economist at the Lowy Institute.

The proposal would leave it to individual governments to apply a fixed cost on greenhouse emissions, with that cost agreed globally and applied uniformly across countries.

Businesses and consumers would then be left to determine whether any given gas-emitting activity was worth that cost.

For example, carbon emissions would cost $10 a tonne, financed either by owning or buying a permit or paying that fee as a tax to the government.

Tradeable permits, both annual and long term, could be issued to existing users for free or new users at a cost.

[gaiacomm]

Can we all just share a Christmas moment for one day at least?


Got God? or Milk?

[gaiacomm]

It is finished!

[foot_soldier]

It will be interesting to observe how this project develops. It's a start and in any case a work-in-progress. I applaud the Europeans for making it to this point:

December 21, 2004
EU Gives Upbeat Assessment on CO2 Emissions Cuts
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=7150943

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union is on track to cut greenhouse gas emissions and meet its Kyoto targets but more needs to be done, an annual report by the EU's executive Commission said on Tuesday.

The European Commission gave a positive assessment of the fight against global warming as the bloc prepared to launch the world's first emissions trading scheme on Jan. 1, 2005.

Under the EU project, 12,000 plants including power stations, steel-makers and other energy-intensive industries will buy and sell carbon credits -- the right to emit carbon dioxide (CO2).

It is the linchpin of the 25-nation bloc's plan to reach its Kyoto Protocol target and cut greenhouse gas emissions by eight percent of 1990 levels over the period 2008-12.

"This progress report gives grounds for optimism that both the EU-15 and the new member states are well on course to meet their Kyoto targets," EU Environment Commissioner Stavros Dimas said in a statement.

The report said by 2002 the former 15-nation bloc had reduced greenhouse emissions by 2.9 percent compared to the 1990 base year. The enlarged 25-nation bloc had cut emissions by 9.0 percent.

The Commission predicts the former EU-15 will reduce emissions by 8.6 percent by 2010..... (continued)

[halva]

Looks like Reynolds is the one who's "going off the deep end."

You're beginning to sound like a carping, gossipy old queen, Jay. Too bad you don't know what you're talking about. You're really grasping at straws at this point.

And for the record I don't support racist commentary or behavior. Gee, it's a shame, isn't it, that just about *anybody* can come into a thread and regularly post racist or similarly offensive kinds of crap thereby setting up all other thread participants as "accessories" to it.

Can I just make an appeal to everyone here who is more or less on 'our side'.

Until such times as we can hang J. Raynolds, it is my unequivocal view that the approach to be followed with him is NOT:

1) to discuss anything of substance with him
2) to try to bugaboo him by striking occult poses
3) to try to make him feel guilty about his criminal assocations
4) to appeal to him as one human being to another
5) to go into defensive mode in relation to his accusations of racism. This is not only absolutely unwarranted. It is the wrong approach to take with someone if one's minimum objective is to marginalize him from all discussion and reduce him to isolation or to the company of the creeps who admire him (who will of course by then have turned against him).

The approach I recommend, except for perhaps one person such as Jim who can act as our monitor, is to ignore-list Raynolds and to post here information on climate change: a subject which he finds boring.

Discussion of anything related to Jews will automatically attract the attention of Raynolds' hangers on and perhaps their boss also.

My view is that the wear and tear on nerves is minimised and our long-term staying power maximised by making this thread as boring as possible for all debunkers and people who have bees in their bonnet about "Jews", "Israel" or "Zionism". This applies above all to defenders of said Jews-Israel-Zionism but detractors also note that by your postings you encourage the pro-Jew-Israel-Zionism groupies to keep hanging around.

[jayreynolds]

And for the record I don't support racist commentary or behavior. Gee, it's a shame, isn't it, that just about *anybody* can come into a thread and regularly post racist or similarly offensive kinds of crap thereby setting up all other thread participants as "accessories" to it.

Well, it's nice to see that Deborah now agrees with me on yet another point.

Jimbo, you just got slapped down by little debbie fruitcake, who was forced to 'cut you loose'
due to your consistently racist postings. Never mind she wouldn't say a damn thing about it on her own. Once the subject was 'out there', and had to be dealt with, there wasn't really much else she could do.

You lose, Jimbo.

[jayreynolds]

Can I just make an appeal to everyone here who is more or less on 'our side'.
Wayne, who is really on "your side"?
Deborah, who now agrees that "chemtrails" are simply contrails?
Gaiacomm, a poseur troll who blah,blah, blah's you?
or Jim Phelps. the fake "whistleblower" who can only blow smoke of no substance?
or all the rest who have left you standing alone with the above?


Until such times as we can hang J. Raynolds, My view is that the wear and tear on nerves is minimised and our long-term staying power maximised by making this thread as boring as possible for all debunkers.

Ah, your strategy as an activist is to make things as boring as possible, eh?

That's really a great plan for an acitivist, Wayne. Sure way to win, old buddy.
Wayne, this is the world's longest running "chemtrails" debate, and your best practice is to make it boring?

What a loser.
Haven't you ever wondered why "your" people aren't so diligent in carrying out your orders, old bean?

[halva]

I can't read what Raynolds is writing here, but once again: we do not waste time arguing with Jew-haters. We try to get them to mobilise mainstream right-wing people, not against Jews but for Kyoto and beyond Kyoto.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

More stuff in the air, water, skies, and bodies of Americans:


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002124855_pollute20.html

December 20, 2004

EPA bends rules for polluters, keeps public out of the loop

By Scott Streater

Knight Ridder Newspapers

RODGER MALLISON / FORT WORTH STAR-TELEGRAM

Motiva Enterprises made a deal with the government in 2001 to reduce emissions from its refinery near Convent, La. The company, which is co-owned by Shell Oil Co., had problems with additives it used and has received several deadline extensions. It has yet to solve the problem.

FORT WORTH, Texas — The federal government quietly has allowed oil refineries nationwide to miss court-mandated deadlines to reduce air emissions, prolonging the exposure of hundreds of thousands of people to dangerous pollutants.
In almost every instance, the Environmental Protection Agency did not tell the courts or the public about the deadline changes, even when legal settlements required it to do so, a Fort Worth Star-Telegram investigation has found.

"That's not appropriate. That's just not appropriate," said Sylvia Lowrance, a former top EPA enforcement official in President Bush's administration. "That information should be shared with the public."

Because of the numerous revisions, the EPA's Petroleum Refinery Initiative has not achieved the air-quality improvements that the agency has claimed, the Star-Telegram found.

Con't

[whitemajikman]

I can't read what Raynolds is writing here, but once again: we do not waste time arguing with Jew-haters. We try to get them to mobilise mainstream right-wing people, not against Jews but for Kyoto and beyond Kyoto.


Wayne you long-necked Ostrich ,get your head out of the sand...........

Kyoto is not the Answer to Global warming...........

In Fact It will do little to curb green house gases......

And the Damage That Kyoto will cause far outweigh's it's benefit's.........

By the way Wayne did it ever occur to you ,to look at who is promotoing Kyoto behind the scenes.........?

Globalist's Wayne.......

Corporate,Environmental,Religious, and Political Globalist's......... .......


GLOBAL CONTROL THROUGH ENVIRONMENTAL TREATIES..........


Little wonder the Man Whom Environmentalist backed Conspiracy Theorist's Dubbed "KING GEORGE" or" BUSH the BONESMAN" rejected and still rejects Ratifying this dubious attempt at Global Control.......

WAYNE YOU ARE PROMOTING IN ESSENCE "ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT" ..................

And you Don't even have a clue your doing it.................

Or DO YOU.....?

WMM

[whitemajikman]

More stuff in the air, water, skies, and bodies of Americans:


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002124855_pollute20.html

December 20, 2004

EPA bends rules for polluters, keeps public out of the loop

By Scott Streater

Knight Ridder Newspapers

RODGER MALLISON / FORT WORTH STAR-TELEGRAM

Motiva Enterprises made a deal with the government in 2001 to reduce emissions from its refinery near Convent, La. The company, which is co-owned by Shell Oil Co., had problems with additives it used and has received several deadline extensions. It has yet to solve the problem.

FORT WORTH, Texas — The federal government quietly has allowed oil refineries nationwide to miss court-mandated deadlines to reduce air emissions, prolonging the exposure of hundreds of thousands of people to dangerous pollutants.
In almost every instance, the Environmental Protection Agency did not tell the courts or the public about the deadline changes, even when legal settlements required it to do so, a Fort Worth Star-Telegram investigation has found.

"That's not appropriate. That's just not appropriate," said Sylvia Lowrance, a former top EPA enforcement official in President Bush's administration. "That information should be shared with the public."

Because of the numerous revisions, the EPA's Petroleum Refinery Initiative has not achieved the air-quality improvements that the agency has claimed, the Star-Telegram found.

Con't


PLEASE EXCUSE Jim Phelps.................For He Is A Mental Peon in need of a lobotomy,and should not be taken seriously...........WHY IS THAT YOU ASK? BECAUSE THE ONLY WHISTLE HE HAS EVER BLOWN IS HALVA'S.............

WMM

[gaiacomm]

Love one another and forgive and forget those that are slow in understanding!

[stuart_allsop]

BECAUSE THE ONLY WHISTLE HE HAS EVER BLOWN IS HALVA'S.............WMM

Wow! Shawn, you shock me! Not with the content or wording of your post (which is probably spot on), but with your excellent sense of humor, your timing, and your unexpected rise to the top in the ranks of debunkers!

Mr. Big says to expect an extra bonus in your Christmas package tomorrow. He also says you can use his own personal parking bay for the day. (It's the one right beside the main door to the HAARP complex, just next to Jay's, and a few places up from Yaak's, right across the street from the new Invisible Spray Experimentation Centre). See you at the party!

[hoot]

Hi Guys, just stopped in to give youall my latest stock pic. Try HNP NYSX. This is a block of 25 chinese coal burning power plants, all internally supplied. Price is down lately and if they ever let that currency loose; look out! And, remember there are no UN AGENDA 21 Kyoto controls there, NONE, NADA! NEVER! Just like there are no CHEMTRAILS there, NONE! NADA! NEVER!///////Just checked on that tip I gave you a month ago, GBX NYSX; you remember Greenbrier, the company that has the contract from our government to make all those comfy white box cars with shackles that are going to be taking the american people to those nice FEMA camps. Was $5 two years ago,$24 when I gave you that tip; after that post selection jump, over $36 today. Hope you guys bought some when I told you to! But, I have my doubts that any of you listen to me. Surely nobody picked up on that straight POOP I gave you months ago on the ashkenazi POWERS THAT BE agreeing at the Vadisvastok summit in 1974 to have their soviet division start global warming and weather control with the deployment of scores of tesla ionosphere heaters, called by the ham community, WOODPECKER!!!! This system was generating 1.2 Billion WATTS of power in 1993[enough for the needs of 2 million people] when the ashkanazi news lock