It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature

[whitemajikman]

V. Testing the Hypothesis of Nuclear Burning
Science progresses as a result of the clash between theory and experiment, between speculation and measurement. Eddington, in the same lecture in which he first discussed the burning of hydrogen nuclei in stars, remarked:


I suppose that the applied mathematician whose theory has just passed one still more stringent test by observation ought not to feel satisfaction, but rather disappointment --- "Foiled again! This time I had hoped to find a discordance which would throw light on the points where my model could be improved.''

Is there any way to test the theory that the sun shines because very deep in its interior hydrogen is burned into helium? At first thought, it would seem impossible to make a direct test of the nuclear burning hypothesis. Light takes about ten million years to leak out from the center of the sun to the surface and when it finally emerges in the outermost regions, light mainly tells us about the conditions in those outer regions. Nevertheless, there is a way of "seeing'' into the solar interior with neutrinos, exotic particles discovered while trying to understand a different mystery4.



A. Discovery, Confirmation, and Surprise
A neutrino is a sub-atomic particle that interacts weakly with matter and travels at a speed that is essentially the speed of light. Neutrinos are produced in stars when hydrogen nuclei are burned to helium nuclei; neutrinos are also produced on earth in particle accelerators, in nuclear reactors, and in natural radioactivity. Based upon the work of Hans Bethe and his colleagues, we believe that the process by which stars like the sun generate energy can be symbolized by the relation,

(1)

in which four hydrogen nuclei (1H, protons) are burned into a single helium nucleus (4He, particle) plus two positive electrons () and two neutrinos () plus energy. This process releases energy to the star since, as Aston showed, four hydrogen atoms are heavier than one helium atom. The same set of nuclear reactions that supply the energy of the sun's radiation also produce neutrinos that can be searched for in the laboratory.



This figure is a cross section of the sun. The features that are usually studied by astronomers with normal telescopes that detect light are labeled on the outside, e. g., sunspot and prominences. Neutrinos enable us to look deep inside the sun, into the solar core where nuclear burning occurs.



Because of their weak interactions, neutrinos are difficult to detect. How difficult? A solar neutrino passing through the entire earth has less than one chance in a thousand billion of being stopped by terrestrial matter. According to standard theory, about a hundred billion solar neutrinos pass through your thumbnail every second and you don't notice them. Neutrinos can travel unaffected through iron as far as light can travel in a hundred years through empty space.

In 1964, Raymond Davis Jr. and I proposed that an experiment with 100,000 gallons of cleaning fluid (perchloroethylene, which is mostly composed of chlorine) could provide a critical test of the idea that nuclear fusion reactions are the ultimate source of solar radiation. We argued that, if our understanding of nuclear processes in the interior of the sun was correct, then solar neutrinos would be captured at a rate Davis could measure with a large tank filled with cleaning fluid. When neutrinos interact with chlorine, they occasionally produce a radioactive isotope of argon. Davis had shown previously that he could extract tiny amounts of neutrino-produced argon from large quantities of perchloroethylene. To do the solar neutrino experiment, he had to be spectacularly clever since according to my calculations only, a few atoms would be produced per week in a huge Olympic-sized swimming pool of cleaning fluid.

Our sole motivation for urging this experiment was to use neutrinos to:

enable us to see into the interior of a star and thus verify directly the hypothesis of nuclear energy generation in stars.


As we shall see, Davis and I did not anticipate some of the most interesting aspects of this proposal.

Davis performed the experiment and in 1968 announced the first results. He measured fewer neutrinos than I predicted. As the experiment and the theory were refined, the disagreement appeared more robust. Scientists rejoiced that solar neutrinos were detected but worried why there were fewer neutrinos than predicted.

What was wrong? Was our understanding of how the sun shines incorrect? Had I made an error in calculating the rate at which solar neutrinos would be captured in Davis's tank? Was the experiment wrong? Or, did something happen to the neutrinos after they were created in the sun?

Over the next twenty years, many different possibilities were examined by hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of physicists, chemists, and astronomers5. Both the experiment and the theoretical calculation appeared to be correct.

Once again experiment rescued pure thought. In 1986, Japanese physicists led by Masatoshi Koshiba and Yoji Totsuka, together with their American colleagues, Eugene Beier and Alfred Mann, reinstrumented a huge tank of water designed to measure the stability of matter. The experimentalists increased the sensitivity of their detector so that it could also serve as a large underground observatory of solar neutrinos. Their goal was to explore the reason for the quantitative disagreement between the predicted and the measured rates in the chlorine experiment.

The new experiment (called Kamiokande) in the Japanese Alps also detected solar neutrinos. Moreover, the Kamiokande experiment confirmed that the neutrino rate was less than predicted by standard physics and standard models of the sun and demonstrated that the detected neutrinos came from the sun. Subsequently, experiments in Russia (called SAGE, led by V. Gavrin), in Italy (GALLEX and later GNO led by T. Kirsten and E. Belotti, respectively), and again in Japan (Super-Kamiokande, led by Y. Totsuka and Y. Suzuki), each with different characteristics, all observed neutrinos from the solar interior. In each detector, the number of neutrinos observed was somewhat lower than standard theory predicted.

What do all of these experimental results mean?

For the Answers click on the link.

http://nobelprize.org/physics/articles/fusion/sun_5.html

[Insurrectionchemistry]

http://rense.com/general59/VANNU.HTM


Is Vanunu Being Persecuted
Because He's Christian?
By William Hughes
11-16-4

Christians beware! On Nov. 11, 2004, Mordechai Vanunu, who served an 18-year
prison sentence for being a nuclear whistle blower, was re-arrested in
Jerusalem. He is a Morrocan-born Jew, who converted to Christianity, which in his
case set him up for some "very special" treatment by the Zionist Cartel. Vanunu
sees himself as a "Christian Peacemaker," who spilled the beans, in 1986, on
Israel's ultra-secret possession of WMD, the sixth largest stockpile of nukes
and warheads in the world, and its Dimona-based nuclear reactor
(http://www.vanunu.freeserve.co.uk/index.htm).

[Insurrectionchemistry]

"but goddamit our reading time is limited."

Hi Halva,

Well, if that is all you got out of listening then do block my commentary.

It appears you may be even more effective at dropping the ball than the debunkers in dismissing there is a ball.

IMHO,
is

[halva]

Jim, don't you think it would be better for Raynolds to tell me to ignore-list you than for you yourself to do so?

After all, it is HE that is telling me that I should dissociate myself from you on the grounds of what he would call your anti-Semitism. Don't you think it would be an idea to see if he really means something concrete when he says this, and is prepared clearly to propose something concrete, like my ignore-listing you?

It is around concrete matters that the game of politics is played.

[jayreynolds]

Jim, don't you think it would be better for Raynolds to tell me to ignore-list you than for you yourself to do so?

After all, it is HE that is telling me that I should dissociate myself from you on the grounds of what he would call your anti-Semitism. Don't you think it would be an idea to see if he really means something concrete when he says this, and is prepared clearly to propose something concrete, like my ignore-listing you?

It is around concrete matters that the game of politics is played.

Hi, Wayne. Nice to see you have come down to asking me for advice.
My suggestion for you is to NEVER ignore anything. The old 'ostrich' behavior leads people to error, for you should always know your enemy, and keep him close at the same time!

That said, I know you come from a slimy 'political' paradigm, one in which people like you are willing to tolerate sin, lies and deceit in others for political expediency. This sort of behavior is one of the major problems in the world. This is what prevented Kerry from getting elected, and what produced the downfall of the uber-political democrat party. If you watched the dem's convention, you saw a concrete example when they swooned and cheered as Bill Clinton made his way to the stage, all the while knowing he was the laughingstock who made oral sex a word heard on the nightly news and discussed by children, a liar, cheat and sexual pervert.
Believe it or not, many kids now call getting a blow-job a "clinton" and think they can't get diseses that way!

Why did they do this? Simple, because they have come to the point where he matches and mirrors their own immorality, essentially they worship and adore him because he is exactly like themselves. Subconsciously, they know it's wrong, for even they have a conscience, though they may do their best to ignore it. Same with you, Wayne. Why do you think Thermit bowed out, and so many more? The biggest problem is, that they remain embittered, having not done the right thing in the end. One day they will finally look themselves in the mirror and admit what fools they have been, or remain self-duped and unconscious that the world considers them just another kook like Jim Phelps.

My best advice to you is to try and atone for the wrongs that you've done, smarten up and realize how you've been had in a grand hoax, and expose Jim Phelps and all the rest for what they really are. Until you wake up to this reality, you are lost, you will lose, and always be the loser you are today. This advice goes for all chemmies, listen up, Deborah?

Failing that, you will become a simple footnote in the history of this hoax, a detour on the way towards it's finality, which looms closer minute by minute. For debunkers can have fun with false ideas and those who promote then for a time, but time debunks like nothing else, and all lies fall in due time.

Selah, Shalom.
Expose the hoax.
Get over it,
Get out of it.
Get on with it.

[gaiacomm]

Blah....Blah...Blah....

[gaiacomm]

FYI:

Gaiacomm: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/111504/bus_17165406.shtml

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi Halva,

Well, I guess you have your concrete design.

Let us pour some 2 ft thick tarmack for huge jet planes.

1. You have a petroleum refinery engineer advising you on concrete answers. Perhaps you should consult his alliance on concrete deceptions.

2. You know that the jet fuel industry is concerned on S content in fuels and began a process of using Si/Al zeolites to reduce the S content in fuels. Lots of Al based chemistry entered the oil refinery business starting around 1990 when ORNL found the usefullness of zeolite as a molecular sieve in mid -80's. Al involved processes for oil refining is a huge research area.

3. You also know that the refinery business began the use of Al catalists (alumina) to promote acid site cracking of the heavies into more useful gas and jet fuels.

4. You also know about an artifact of the oil industry push to lower S content, but raised another feature which is useful toward atmospheric shading and atmospheric acid reduction by catalytic process.


Technologies come and go don't they Halva. Around 1990, Freon was discontinued because of the Cl and F components screwing up both UV-b and atmospheric IR retention. It was an ORNL initiated idea. Changing the refineries to lower S fuel content an ORNL initiated idea. Adding Al to jet fuels to make shading and rain out acids from the atmosphere an ORNL initiated idea. And even using these new technology shifted Al based refinery methods can make the refineries themselfs part of the process of adding Al to jet fuels. Rather systemic, isn't it?

Now keep in mind that I used to work for Martin-Marietta (later Lockheed-Martin) and they are experts in both concrete making and jet planes for war from Texas. They know all about the Kettering Group faults (GM-Cincinnatti) connected to leaded gas, fluoride/freon cover ups, and how to make money by deception. Oak Ridge is the master of fluorides and aluminum tricks to make the bombs (We use lots of alumina and zeolite). Their ideas easily get incorperated into the Oil business and the jet plane business. Is it any wonder that all these cover up games stem right from the source with the most risks and most people to be tossed into jail for deceiving the American public?

Who is the top dog involved in this massive campaign of cover ups, G. Bush and his Texas oil and Jet plane buddies. And we would sure appreaciate if you could help us expose him and get him and his cabolistic alliances tossed in prison. It is really not nice to fool mother nature (aka God) and lie on such a massive scale to the American public on global environmental disasters. I am sure that would become one of the most heavily fundable proposals in Europe.

And you need to keep your enemies of the environment very close and inspect them closely.
You also need to connect why the concrete deception industry is so closely connected to the extremely bigotted hate crime industry of religion.

And if you are very politically correct and not a biggot -- the term is "Shaloma," because Jesus spoke Aramaic, not Hebrew. He also respected Arab peoples. So goes the Jewish hate crime mobs hatred of the Christ's Revelations that are hitting them from all angles.

IMHO,
is

[Insurrectionchemistry]

"I should warn you that I intend to convince you of my beliefs."

Sweetest Allsop's Fables,

Thanks for the insights and the brevity. Just as I asked, but then ya had to go and dig another hole.

Since "Maji" bigot is your prodigal son, tell us his full name, location, and citizenship. Why does he have many military friends down toward Fla.? Special relations to the School of the Americas, With special emphasis in Jewish corruption of religion deception smoothing.

I really doubt that since your so proud of the deceptive Maji that you can ever convince anyone except another bigot of your satatic pride beliefs. Especially not myself.

Short conversation wasn't it.

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

Show this to your children before they go to bed at night:

http://www.jihadunspun.net/home.php

[stuart_allsop]

For Jim Phelps.....

Original Sin

Well, I guess this just goes to show that old habits die hard, hey Shawn?

And just to show Jim & Co. that I'm fair in my debunking, I'll just have to debunk your post this time, Shawn, becuas it is chock full of inaccuracies and false statements...

Fasen your seatbelt again, Shawn: You might be in for a rough ride... :)


The concept of Original Sin stems from the myth of the separation of Man from God, as described in the story of the Fall from the Garden of Eden. Most cultures have a similar myth to this Judeo-Christian story, and all are an attempt to explain how Humanity became separated from his Divine and Eternal nature.So far so good. Except for the use of "myth". But did you notice the typical absurdity of one who has a preconcieed notion abhout how something is, and refuses to recognize reality? The author here amits that this "myth" is very widespread, across multiple cultures, lanuguages and continents, yet dismisses that out of hand. This is a typical case of a researcher with an agenda, looking at the data, then throwing out the data becuase it does not fit his agenda. Here, all these numerous cultures unanimously agree that there was an original superior state from which man fell, but instead of thinking "Hmmm.. they all say the same thing, so maybe there is something to it", the researcher takes teh absurd apporach of "Hmm... they all say the same thing, so they all must be WRONG!" Huh? Go figure! Makes no sense at all....



When Adam and Eve eat from the apple of the Tree of Life And here your author starts to disply his ignorance, and to show that he has no intentions of reporting the REAL facts, but only of reporting what he THINKS the facts are. It wasn't an apple, and it wasn't the Tree of Life! Wrong on both counts. The Bible siomply refers to it as "fruit", and refers to the tree as "The tree of the knowledge of good and evil". The reason God banished Adam and Eve from Eden was to PREVENT them from eating the fruit on the tree of life, not BECAUSE they ate it!
We are only in the second paragraph, and the author has already screwup up on all his major points. Do you think we should trust him?


they are beiginning the journey of Understanding and Self-Knowledge. This act is a positive and necessary act, and yet has been perceived by the theology of organized Religion as a negative act, and therefore a Sin. No, not at all! Once again, the author has no idea what he is talking about. It wasn't the "self discovery" that was a sin. That has nothing at all to do with it. The sin was plain old DISOBEDIENCE of a direct command from God! God had told them SPECIFICALLY not to eat that fruit. "Self discovery" has nothing to do with it. That wasn't the sin. The sin was simply disobedience, period. The author either does not uderstand the concept of "sin" at all, or is deliberately distorting the facts to fit his agenda.


This concretization of Original Sin as a literal disease is the root of racism within the Roman Catholic Church.Really? I'd like to see how you could prove THAT! Patently absurd!


Those who did not accept Baptism and enter the Church were now harborers of a deadly sexually transmitted disease. From this time onwards Jews throughout Europe, who by nature of their culture and religion had not been baptised, were feared and victimized as carriers of Original Sin. During outbreaks of very real disease such as Bubonic Plague, Jews were massacred and burned for having spread the disease.The author seems to have some confusion as to history, not to mention the definition of the word "racism".

...


If we return to the Garden of Eden and investigate the true meaning of the act of the eating of the apple of knowledge and its consequences,It wasn't an apple, but now suddenly the author switches from it being from the tree of life, to it being from the tree of knowledge... Hmmm... If he got it right here, how come he got it wrong in the first paragraph? Confusion? Ignorance? Deliberately misleading? Hmmm....


we will see that the sex act is in fact far from being a sin of any kind. Adam and Eve live in a state of innocent perfection within the Divine realm of Unity in the Garden. However, like children they are unconscious of their particular and special individuality as "created by God" and are therefore impotent of their own God-like individual self-expression and creativity. They enjoy the garden but add nothing to it, and are not responsible for it. Well, that settles it. "Deliberatley misleading" is what it is, without doubt. The other is just openly and blatantly lying, here: Adam's job description was "GARDENER AND GAME RANGER"! His job was to take care of the garden, and teh animals. He was given authority over the garden, and over the anmals. The author is making very silly, very false claims here, ignoring relaity in order to further his own personal fake agenda.


By eating the apple of knowledge they begin to become aware of their individuality. This starts them on a journey of Self-Discovery through the suffering of loneliness and lack of unity with each other and with God. Nope! By eating the non-apple they began a path to disobediance! Plain and simple. The story is quite clear, and there is no need to complicate it by adding esoteric psychological interpretations that were not in it, were not intended, and are totally irrelvant to the original point.


Through the act of sexual intercourse Adam and Eve are ritualistically re-forming themselves as the unified pair of opposites that they originally perceived themselves to be. Like the journey of the child through to adulthood, as individuality is more deeply perceived and felt as separation, sexual desire is increased. Huh? Who said anything about sex? The Bible didn't! It says that they became aware of their nakedness, but nothing at all about sex! To me, it looks like the author has some kind of obsession with sex, and is looking for Biblical reasons to just his own shortocommings!


Thus, the act of sex far from being negative or evil, as perceived by the Roman Catholic Church,it isn't. One more lie.


is in fact Humanity's most fundamental way of saying "I am lonely and I want to experience you". Nope! Scientists agree that the desire for sex has nothing to do with emotions. It is simply the most basic, most powerful motivating force, with the single objective of proceration. It is built in to our genes, and has nothing to do with emotions. If sex depended on emotions, then most animals would never be able to reproduce.


This is the only pathway back to the Garden of Eden where individuality and unity are the perfect expression of the Divine. Nope! Sorry. You can't get back to Eden by screwing around everyone in sight! Nice try! The ONLY way to get back to Eden is through returning to God and obedience. Logially, since it was disobediance that sdeparated Man rfom God in the first place, then the only way back is through obediance.


Ironically, it is known by historians that the Jesuit educated Adolf Hitler was convinced that the slight deformity of his penis (his urethal orifice opened around the back of the gland) was genetically inherited syphilis. In this paranoid delusion he reasoned that his ailment was entirely the fault of unbaptized Jews, who harbored sexually transmitted "Original Sin" in the form of syphilis.Really? This is known by historians? Then how come we never read about it in history books? What is your source for this information?


Clearly, the dogmatic teachings of the Roman Catholic Church are leading Humanity away from the Garden of Eden, and into the repressed abyss of loneliness, fear, and insanity.Huh? How did you get there from here? There is no logical path to get to that conclusion rfom the suggestions and unsipported claims that you made, even if they were all true!

Sorry, Shawn, but that whole article is just somebody's personal gripe against the Catholic church, attempting to justify his own sexual problems (and deformities??? Hmm...) by projecting all his woes onto the Catholic church, and distorting Biblical teachings to justify his own agenda.

QED.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Dearest Sweet Naive Allsop Fables,

I generally look at the first few lines of what you list, and when it takes off on a rant I stop reading.

So, you are wasting time, energy, and Forum bandwidth to do stuff that I and most others won't even look at.

Please end junking up the Forum with your diatribes of Masonsic pontification. I just ain't interested.

IMHO,
is

[stuart_allsop]

We all know Mary was the rich little tart that went wild and took up with lowly carpenters and got all pregnant. ... However, Mary being the rebel she was came up with some truer ideas on Judaic version of Torah on God.
Second challenge, Jim. This is the second time you make that statement, and the second time that you offer not the slightest shred of evidence to back it up. Where is your evidence?


The Catholic church took up Mary as the main ... Yes, unfortuantely they did. Very incorrectly, of course, as they basically just projected existing Pagan beliefs onto Mary, in order to attain acceptance among Pagan society. It woprked, but it was wrong, and afterwards they never could shed their assocaition with the Mother Figurr of Mary


... and the Christian churches her son as the central icon.Well, the Catholics also consdier them selves to be a "Chrisitan church", so you should probably use "protestant" to differentiate here. Besides, Christians do not worship Jesus as the "central icon": God is still central, and Jesus is just the path that gets you to God.

But what is your point?


They told her of the dual meanings on how the Torah should be interpreted.Really? What two ways would those be? I already know of the best one:which is to read carefully, study carefully, and interpret strictly according to full the context (social, political, geographical, liguistic, intended audience, etc.) of the moment in time where each book was written.

So what is the "other" way that you propose for reading it?


"immaculate Conception" just means Pure Idea / Clean Vision, ... Over the years the story of Immaculate Conception, or Pure Idea, got turned into Virgin MaryOoops! Jim, your ignorance is glaringly obvious, yet again! It shines like a beacon! If you hope to slander Catholic ideology, you should at least make sure that you understand their own terms first! The concept of "Immaculate conception" has nothing at all to do with the Virgin birth. Zero. Two totally separate items. The Virgin birth is Biblical, the immaculate conception is not: It was invented by the Catholic Church in the middle ages, not by Mary.

Like I say, Jim, if you want to do a mud slinging job on Catholicism, then go ahead: I wont stop you. But at least, please get your terminology in order first, because I WILL call you on it, every time you get it wrong, and likewise I will debunk your false claims, every time.

Besides, there is PLENTY of mud to sling at the Catholic church perfectly legitimately, just from using the Bible, without needing to invent new fake stuff.


... took up a crusade against the Pharisee and Sanhedon council. Sigh! Jim, Jim, Jim! When will you learn? You REALLY need to do a better job of reading the Bible, before you start discussing what you THINK it says! As it is, you simply expose your ignorance and your personal agenda, every time you come up with silly statements like this. You STILL don't know how Jewish society was structured in the times of Jesus, do you? You still haven;t figured out all these groups, have you? Sigh! Back to the drawing board for you, Jim!


Jesus won people over by having the high truth. It was this truth that he used to make his learning the pathway toward God.No, Jesus won people over by feeding them, healing them, and entertaining them! It worked back then just like it works today: if you want to build up a following, you need to give them what they want. Jesus understood this, so he gave them food (both physical and spiritual), healed their illnesses, and performed spectacular miracles to get their attention. The he used that to put the people on "the pathway toward God" (as you put it). That "pathway" is, of course, Jesus himself, which is the entire point and purpose of the Bible.


These are just some of the things one learns about religion in Oak Ridge national security business.Wow! If that's what they teach you in the top seceret seurity business, then there is little hope for security in the USA!!! If they can't even get the basics of Catholic doctrine right, and confuse the Virgn Birth with the Immacualte Conception, then how on earth are they going to understand the underlying hatred and evil of Islam, or tell the difference between Yassar Arafat and Saddam Hussein!

[gaiacomm]

Mujahideen Moves Easily In Fallujah; 19 Americans Killed In Explosion
Nov 16, 2004
By Muhammad Abu Nasr, Free Arab Voice; Edited By JUS

In a dispatch posted at 4:17pm Mecca time Monday, the Fallujah correspondent of Mafkarat al-Islam reported that a noticeable quiet has descended over Fallujah, broken only by intermittent fire by one of the American snipers scattered on rooftops in places in the city. The calm prevails both in the city center and on the outskirts.

US snipers are deployed on the main streets of the city in six or seven positions along ath-Tharthar Street, the main street leading to ar-Ramadi (ar-Ramadi Road), and buildings overlooking the Euphrates to the west of the city.

Dozens of US snipers deployed on the main thoroughfares prevent the people in their areas from moving about normally and obtaining drinking water and food, though the city’s residents move freely in the narrow side streets. The grip of the snipers themselves has also loosened to the extent that people sometimes can even manage to sprint across the main streets.

Decomposing bodies still lie on some streets where the people cannot get to them to bury them. Some people have buried relatives in their homes for fear of risking snipers on the way to cemeteries.

The Mujahideen has changed its positions within the city, distributing different districts to different units, allowing the groups to reinforce one another whenever fighting becomes fierce. The Mujahideen move about easily within their own areas.

Mujahideen sharpshooters attempted to eliminate the American snipers by taking up positions on other high buildings to pick them off, but US Apache helicopters would unleash intense gunfire upon them whenever they made these attempts.

19 Americans Killed When Mujahideen Blows Up Building

Sources in the Consultative Council of the Mujahideen of Fallujah told Quds Press on Monday that Mujahideen blew up a building in Fallujah as American forces were entering it on Monday morning, killing 19 US troops.

The building in the al-Bazarah neighborhood opposite the al-Wuthbah Secondary School in the city was blown up using a large amount of TNT just as the US troops were entering it. The US forces brought in bulldozers to dig out the remains of their dead. US troops who were still outside the building when it exploded were wounded.

On Sunday the US military admitted that the Resistance in Fallujah had detonated a building killing three and wounding 13 other American troops. Resistance sources told Quds Press that the real number was 60 dead and 40 wounded in that blast. The building that blew up was the office of the Governor of Fallujah and more than 500kg of high explosive TNT was used to demolish that large structure over the Americans.

Resistance Commander Scoffs At Claims US “Controls” Fallujah

Iraqi Resistance commander Abu Muhammad, who leads fighters in the north of Fallujah scoffed at pictures broadcast by some television companies showing US soldiers resting on beds in Fallujah. Abu Muhammad observed that the Resistance was still looking for where those beds were so they could set them afire.

Abu Muhammad said that the occupation forces were good at forging photos. He said that images of US troops strolling about streets of Fallujah looked like images from the storming of any Iraqi city. Although he had not himself seen the images, he said that those who had seen them maintained that no houses recognizable as being in Fallujah showed up in them. As to the claims that the US forces were in the city, Abu Muhammad said that they might have taken pictures on the day they did enter the city – 26 Ramadan/ 9 November, but since then the situation had totally changed. Abu Muhammad offered the explanation that some of the pictures could be of places of no strategic importance that the Americans occupied.

Abu Muhammad told Mafkarat al-Islam that unbiased observers had acknowledged that the city had never been in the hands of the US occupation and that the war in Fallujah was still on.

Fighters In ‘Amiriyat Al-Fallujah Shoot Down Two US Helicopters

In a dispatch posted at 9:20pm Monday Mecca time, the Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent in Fallujah reported that Resistance forces had shot down two US Apache helicopters over ‘Amiriyat al-Fallujah in the last couple days.

The first of the two choppers was downed on Sunday; the second was shot down around sunset Monday. The correspondent noted that the Resistance brought both down with C5K rockets.

Amiriyah al-Fallujah, a town to the south of Fallujah, appears to have acquired some special skill in shooting down American helicopters. Several days ago they brought down a helicopter that was carrying some 60 US troops.

Mujahideen Attack US Positions Northeast Of Fallujah

Mujahideen in Fallujah attacked US troops located in the agricultural area northeast of the city in an attempt to break up their camp. The Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent reported that the Mujahideen struck the most important US position northeast of the agricultural area. Fighting spread to al-Jarmah northeast of the city and continued for more than four hours.

US columns have moved up to the area where fighting has been underway in the agricultural area and the area of the city cemetery. The battle zone is now stretched over 35 to 40km.

Mujahideen fired Grad rockets on the headquarters of the puppet so-called “national guard” in al-Jarmah, destroying an American force that was there. US Apache and Black Hawk helicopters attacked northern al-Jarmah in an attempt to divert the resistance so that they could retrieve their dead and wounded.

Fallujah Doctors Issue Appeal

Fallujah’s doctors issued an appeal for assistance on Monday, noting the extent of the criminal activity of the US forces that had no qualms about blowing up hospitals and clinics with patients and doctors inside.

The doctors denounced US-appointed puppet “prime minister” Iyyad ‘Allawi and his so-called “health minister” ‘Ala’ ad-Din al-‘Alwan. They noted that US forces attacked Fallujah General Hospital in the first hours of their attack and arrested doctors, nurses, and medical professionals. These people were beaten and humiliated on the grounds that they were “terrorists.”

The doctors in their statement said that the puppet so-called “Iraqi national guard” who accompanied the Americans, drove nurses out of the delivery room as an Iraqi woman was giving birth, leaving the baby still attached to the mother.

After that US troops bombarded the substituted hospitals that had been set up inside the city, “and the blood of doctors and that of patients mixed under the ruins.” After the bombardment, if they found anyone still alive in the rubble, they crushed him with their tanks.

The doctors’ statement noted that US snipers killed more than 17 Iraqi doctors who had rushed to respond to an earlier appeal for help from Fallujah’s medical personnel that went out over al-Jazeera satellite TV.

The doctors’s statement also pointed out that US forces prevented aid teams from getting into Fallujah, terrorizing and repressing the Iraqi Red Crescent teams and humanitarian and Islamic volunteers.

The doctors in Fallujah denounced the puppet so-called “health minister” saying that he had threatened to cut off the salaries, take away their licenses, and imprison them if any of them talked about the outrages committed by the US and puppet forces in Fallujah.

The doctors concluded their statement calling on all doctors to condemn these barbaric acts and to take the initiative to save all the people of Fallujah who can be saved. They also insisted on the need to expel those who cooperate with the occupation, including the so-called “minister of health,” from the Iraqi Federation of Physicians.

[halva]

My suggestion for you is to NEVER ignore anything.


So there you have it, Jim. You are posting here with Raynolds' approval, indeed encouragement.

Remind him of this if he starts calling you names again.

[stuart_allsop]

Israel knows the Bible narrative's end point on Christ is about their demise You haven't read Revelations yet, ahave you Jimmy? You must have fallen asleep half way through, I think. The end point of Revelations is the magnificent new city of Jerusalem, with all mankind living in harmony, and God governing the Earth through Jerusalem.

You are losing your edge, Jim. You are starting to make claims that EVERYONE knows to be false, and that cane be checked very, very simply, just by reading the Bible.


Once you connect these two dots, you have won the debate against WMM. You can run him right into the ground.Then how come you have not been able to do that? So far, he's done an admiral and highly cinvincing job if running YOU into the ground!


Revelations is all about climate change predictions from pollution.Nope. You really haven't read it, have you? It's all about spiritual war in Heaven, that spills over on to Earth, and about God pouring out his puinishment on Mankind. You don't understand much at all about the style of writing called "apocalyptic" do you?


The Manhattan Project was mostly about Jews working feverously to be able to blow up Hitler. No, it was mostly about America working to build a better weapon.


Hitler had to goods on religion, how they became state within a state problems and how religion was mostly word games to make a God useful to man's purposes. Ya know, Jim, yo uare srting to sound a lot like a Neo-Nazi! IS that your real religion? Nazism?


In order to make Israel, the Pope had to give in on its objections to the Jews version of God, and there was huge Jewish pressures on the Pope to allow Israel. Same for Truman.Huh? The Pope had NOTHING AT ALL to do with it! It was a decision of the League of Nations! You erally do need to study your history a bit better, Jim! You can't expect anyone to take your consporacy theories seriously, until you get your basic facts straight!


If one looks at the visual imagery of chemtrails, seeding all those huge white clouds to reflect IR and cool things down. It is the same visual imagery for the return on the Christ.Really? So where should I look in the Chem-kook version to see those legions of angels, the trumpets, the blinding lights, and everyone on the entire planet getting down on their knees to worship Him? I guess I must have missed that part of the hoax, Jim. Is this something new that you are planning to add to Chemtrails? I can't quite see hope you are going to fit it in, though. ,,,


In the US, the war on Communism is all about ... Huh? What war on communism? That one os OVER Jim! You guys won. Remember?

[Insurrectionchemistry]

"So there you have it, Jim. You are posting here with Raynolds' approval, indeed encouragement.

Remind him of this if he starts calling you names again."

Hi Halva,

Outstanding.!!!!!!! You know him too well.
Like I really needed some oil industry crook's permission.

And his true motives to the Bush Kabola are showing too.

IMHO, Have Fun,

is

[whitemajikman]

Well, I guess this just goes to show that old habits die hard, hey Shawn?

And just to show Jim & Co. that I'm fair in my debunking, I'll just have to debunk your post this time, Shawn, becuas it is chock full of inaccuracies and false statements...

Fasen your seatbelt again, Shawn: You might be in for a rough ride... :)

So far so good. Except for the use of "myth". But did you notice the typical absurdity of one who has a preconcieed notion abhout how something is, and refuses to recognize reality? The author here amits that this "myth" is very widespread, across multiple cultures, lanuguages and continents, yet dismisses that out of hand. This is a typical case of a researcher with an agenda, looking at the data, then throwing out the data becuase it does not fit his agenda. Here, all these numerous cultures unanimously agree that there was an original superior state from which man fell, but instead of thinking "Hmmm.. they all say the same thing, so maybe there is something to it", the researcher takes teh absurd apporach of "Hmm... they all say the same thing, so they all must be WRONG!" Huh? Go figure! Makes no sense at all....


And here your author starts to disply his ignorance, and to show that he has no intentions of reporting the REAL facts, but only of reporting what he THINKS the facts are. It wasn't an apple, and it wasn't the Tree of Life! Wrong on both counts. The Bible siomply refers to it as "fruit", and refers to the tree as "The tree of the knowledge of good and evil". The reason God banished Adam and Eve from Eden was to PREVENT them from eating the fruit on the tree of life, not BECAUSE they ate it!
We are only in the second paragraph, and the author has already screwup up on all his major points. Do you think we should trust him?

No, not at all! Once again, the author has no idea what he is talking about. It wasn't the "self discovery" that was a sin. That has nothing at all to do with it. The sin was plain old DISOBEDIENCE of a direct command from God! God had told them SPECIFICALLY not to eat that fruit. "Self discovery" has nothing to do with it. That wasn't the sin. The sin was simply disobedience, period. The author either does not uderstand the concept of "sin" at all, or is deliberately distorting the facts to fit his agenda.

Really? I'd like to see how you could prove THAT! Patently absurd!

The author seems to have some confusion as to history, not to mention the definition of the word "racism".

...

It wasn't an apple, but now suddenly the author switches from it being from the tree of life, to it being from the tree of knowledge... Hmmm... If he got it right here, how come he got it wrong in the first paragraph? Confusion? Ignorance? Deliberately misleading? Hmmm....

Well, that settles it. "Deliberatley misleading" is what it is, without doubt. The other is just openly and blatantly lying, here: Adam's job description was "GARDENER AND GAME RANGER"! His job was to take care of the garden, and teh animals. He was given authority over the garden, and over the anmals. The author is making very silly, very false claims here, ignoring relaity in order to further his own personal fake agenda.

Nope! By eating the non-apple they began a path to disobediance! Plain and simple. The story is quite clear, and there is no need to complicate it by adding esoteric psychological interpretations that were not in it, were not intended, and are totally irrelvant to the original point.

Huh? Who said anything about sex? The Bible didn't! It says that they became aware of their nakedness, but nothing at all about sex! To me, it looks like the author has some kind of obsession with sex, and is looking for Biblical reasons to just his own shortocommings!

it isn't. One more lie.

Nope! Scientists agree that the desire for sex has nothing to do with emotions. It is simply the most basic, most powerful motivating force, with the single objective of proceration. It is built in to our genes, and has nothing to do with emotions. If sex depended on emotions, then most animals would never be able to reproduce.

Nope! Sorry. You can't get back to Eden by screwing around everyone in sight! Nice try! The ONLY way to get back to Eden is through returning to God and obedience. Logially, since it was disobediance that sdeparated Man rfom God in the first place, then the only way back is through obediance.

Really? This is known by historians? Then how come we never read about it in history books? What is your source for this information?

Huh? How did you get there from here? There is no logical path to get to that conclusion rfom the suggestions and unsipported claims that you made, even if they were all true!

Sorry, Shawn, but that whole article is just somebody's personal gripe against the Catholic church, attempting to justify his own sexual problems (and deformities??? Hmm...) by projecting all his woes onto the Catholic church, and distorting Biblical teachings to justify his own agenda.

QED.

Nothing to be sorry about,Stuart .

That Article was For JIM.....

to show him that he isn't the only one on the internet who suffers from Ignorance.

The article is a close representation of JIM's beliefs.......

Beliefs that have no basis in fact.......

If you research Phelp's you can see a pattern.

one which starts at Church Street..........And him losing his faith........and being hurt in the process

Because losing his faith is paramount to what he has become.......and in that process he has started his own version of "faith".

WHICH IS A SIN.

To bad he can't face the hatred in his heart..........head on.

But instead makes up his "Faith" as his sub-conscience fights those demons of the past.

Excellent debunking Stuart.

WMM

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Halva,

It almost looks like ole Jay ran a pilot study at a refinery down at some Rockefeller island in the Caribbean to test some of these Al technologies for the oil industry. Then came back up here to promote them and fill our skies with these Jet induced white lines all over the planet.

See if you can get the scoop on JR's involvement and company history with Big Oil and Al based refinery operations.

Jim Phelps and DOEWatch now being brought to you on Arianna's Forum with the full approval and underwriting of Jay Reynolds, chemtrail champion.

IMHO,
is

“The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy
the Americans freedom and before I leave office I must inform the Citizen of
his plight.”
PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY (10 days before he was murdered)


http://www.worldnewsstand.net/money/FED1.htm


Operation Mongoose is still alive and well, but with new parameters on who the real villians are. Mongooses eat snakes alive.

[halva]

Jim, I am going to revert to posting news on climate change.

If you want talk about other matters please address your remarks to others here, not to me.

Thank you.

[jayreynolds]

What total bullshit, Lance. You should be ashamed, as e4veryone is ashamed of you for posting such crap. The truth on tonight's news will show US troops firmly in control of Fallujah, and the handiwork of your "glorious mujahedeen" to be the cold-blooded premeditated killing of Margaret Hassan, who was doing nothing more than helping her own people.
What a bunch of true berserkers.
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/11/16/Hassan_041116.html


My own brother-in-law, an Iraqi-born American, is over there right now doing similar aid work to help rebuild his former country.

Your version of the facts bear no resemblance to reality, no more than "Baghdad Bob's" ever did. Oh, and for Jim Phelps, did you know that 'gaiacomm' once boasted that he was "King of Judea"?
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/6/prweb67503.htm

[halva]

Jim, I am going to revert to posting news on climate change.

If you want talk about other matters please talk to others here, not to me.

Thank you.

Of course, there is another possibility: you could start another thread where such subjects would not be off topic.

Surely the same applies to the sickening and shocking information from Iraq.

What is that doing on this thread? And what can we do about Iraq?

[stuart_allsop]

I can understand your reluctanceOn the conrtary! There is no reluctance at all! I can do it if you wish, but the results would not be scientifically valid, since (despite your claims to the contrary) science does not and cannot deal with the supernatural. A simple excercise in logic is all that is needed to demonstrate this point. Science works by observation, then proposing hypothesis to explain the observed, then performing experiments to confirm or modify the hypothesis, the resolving the outcome into theory, then further testing and refining of theory until it can be considered as established law.

While Science can certainly hypothesize about God, it can neither observe him, nor measure him, nor test him, nor examine him in any possible way, since God is, by definition, none of these things. God is supernatural: Science details with the natural. Therefore Science cannot either prove nor disprove the existance of God. Once can certainly INFER the existance of God from certain insurmountable problems in Science, but Science can not say anything about God, either pro or con, simply because God is beyond the realm of Science. QED

So, if you wish, I'd be happy to debate you on the exsitance of God, using as much science as I can, but I'm not going to abuse science by trying to stretch it to places where it is not use. Of course, I can use logic and reasoning way beyond where science ends, and I will do that, if you wish.

But the point is that yor original request is impossble: You ask me to prove the existance of God using a tool that is incapable of proving the existance of God.

That is kind of like asking me to use the Bible to prove the existance of evolution. While I can certainly do a good job of INFERRING that evolution must exist, just by using the Bible, I certainly cannot PROVE it to exist, since the Bible is not capable of doing that.

See my point?



...as there does appear to be evidence of confusion and inconsistency in your attempt to explain your position, Mr. Allslop.Nope! Not at all! No confusion, and no inconsistency. If you believe you have found something inconsistent in my position, then why don't you just come right on out into the open and show it to me, instead of beating around the bush? What are you afraid of?


Science is a tool as well as a process. A rock is purely a physical object. You certainly do have things neatly separated and defined in a convenient manner with which to push your product.I have no product! ??? What are you talking about? (And you accuse ME of confusion? HA!)


You unquestionably have convinced yourself that you are an authority who speaks for all of creation.No, not at all. God is the only authority who speaks for all of creation. Not me. All I can do is present what I have learned, tested, and found to be true.


No doubt it is divine inspiration that guides your every keystroke.I wish I could say it was, but I somehow don't think so! Like I said, all I can do is report on what I've learned over the years, through careful study of both science and religion. There really is no conflict between the two, you know.


On the other hand, the pride and arrogance with which you write is anything but Christ-like.Really? Then I guess your understanding of what Christ is like is rather deficient, isn't it! You need to go and read the Bible, to see how he handled situations where he confronted people with ingrained false religions beliefs, and needed to get their attention! So far, I have not taken to whipping any of you, like Jesus did, nor have I taken to trashing your workplaces, and bringing up your personal dirty laundry in public!

Just like Jim, you need to go and actually READ the Bible, CAREFULLY this time, in full context. Only then will you be able to talk about it intelligently.


It is one thing for you to present your case and to let independent observers decide its validity. It is quite another for you to ram it down their throats as indisputable fact.Like I said, if you think you can dispute anything I say, then go ahead and bring along your evidence, so that we can discuss it. I might be wrong, and I'll admit it. I'm not afraid of the truth. In fact, if you really can prove that I am wrong about something, then I'll be greatfull for it, and I will thank you for it, since you will have improved me in some way.

Are you prepared to agree to the same standard?


I see no difference between the methods you employ and those of radical chemtrail proponents.[/quotes]If yo ucan't se that, then I guess you need better spectacles! :) Seriously, there is one MAJOR difference: I am always prepared and able to back up everything I say with solid fact, hard evidence, and logical reasoning. No chemtrail proponent has ever done that. Never. Not once.

[quote]As I understand it, science is generally accepted to be man?s attempt to describe the universe, as a whole, through what is not only observable, but also experienced.Well, just like I thought, you don't understand science then, do you? What you "understand" is the same generally held common misconception of what science is, that is heavily promoted by the media. In reality, that isn't a very good pictuer of what science is. The media does not like what science REALLY is, because it would hinder their agenda, so they promote a myth about what they THINK it should be. And every time that science coems up with afinding that supports some part of their agenda, they promote it like crazy, splashing it across the headlines, but when science comes up with other findings that refute their agenda, proving it wrong, they conveniently ignore it...


With that in mind, science can very well deal with the incorporeal. Great! I'm gald that you think this way, since you'll be able to solve a little problem that has been troubling science for the last few dozen decades:

How do you measure God?

Until science can measure God, examine him, probe him, prod him, and run a battery of tests on him, Science cannot say anything at all about him. Sure, scientists can (and often do) make wild guesses about what God is like, but they cannot say anything concete about him, until the measure him.

So, since you apparently have the answer to this age-old question, please go ahead and tell us how we should go about measuring God. Then Science will be able to talk about him.

How tall is He?


It largely depends upon the intelligence of the onlooker. No, wrong again! Science totally rejects all subjectivity. Science only deals with asbolute objectivity. Science works DESPITE who you are and what you believe, not BECAUSE of who you are or what you believe.


Humility does not appear to be one of your problems.Finally! You actually got one right! Congratulations!



The Shadow knows... No he doesn't. Only God knows.

[stuart_allsop]

For those of you that have become concerned about Stuart?s recent and many typos, there is a perfectly rational explanation for this. As he was climbing from bed this morning he tripped over his ego and bruised several fingers attempting to break his fall.
[/size]

Fank you thaak! I apreshiate yur connsern ant yor elpfull eshplanashon! Veri helpphull!

(Actually, my excuse is that I type too fast, and I can't be bothered to find a spell checker that works here.... Plus, I'm using a Spanish keyboard on my computer right now, which doesn't help!!!)

[stuart_allsop]

"Since "Maji" bigot is your prodigal son, tell us his full name, location, and citizenship. Why does he have many military friends down toward Fla.?Sure, I can do that! Just as soon as he tells me who he is and all of that other stuff, I'l be sure to let you know. All that I know about him is that his name is "Shawn" something, and I think he lives in the USA. Beyond that, I know as mush as you do about him. Probably less.


Short conversation wasn't it.Oh, but it hasn't even started yet! So why are you chickening out already? Maybe you figured out that you could never take that kind of heat, and that you just are not prepared to debate against real science in an open forum? That's OK. I can't blame you for that. If I were as ignorant as you are about sceince and religion, I would not want to debate ANYONE in public, let alone ME, of all people!

Pity.

It would have been fun, but if you are not man enough for the job, then I really can't blme you for skulking off to hide like that...

[stuart_allsop]

Dearest Sweet Naive Allsop Fables,

I generally look at the first few lines of what you list, and when it takes off on a rant I stop reading.

So, you are wasting time, energy, and Forum bandwidth to do stuff that I and most others won't even look at.

Please end junking up the Forum with your diatribes of Masonsic pontification. I just ain't interested.

IMHO,
isWell, that figures, doesn't it? Par for the course! No kook has ever been able to stay the course of a full debate with me. Just ilke you, they very quickly run and hide just as soon as they realize that they cannot defend their positjion against true science.

But you really should go back and check on some of my posts, Jim: I gave you some very good advice on how you can do a better job of trolling in religous topics in the future, without looking like the village buffon every time you try. That advice would be well worth your while. I promise!

[Yaak]

Though certain people refuse to acknowledge your brilliance, Stuart, I hope they will at least find delight in your superb sense of humor.

:D

[whitemajikman]

Sure, I can do that! Just as soon as he tells me who he is and all of that other stuff, I'l be sure to let you know. All that I know about him is that his name is "Shawn" something, and I think he live sin teh USA. Beyond that, I know as mush as you do about him. Probagly less.

I will tell you Jim,as soon as you explain why it is so important to you.

And Stuart ,I was born in the States and I currently Reside in Canada.........

WMM

[whitemajikman]

Jim ,Why do you keep running away from Church Street.......?

Can you please explain that portion of your life................?

Is that the catalyst which has set your version of reality in motion.....?

You worked there for many years ,A member whom believed in what he was doing....

Was it the fact that you realized that not all were as dedicated as you......?

OR the fact that they did not live up to your expectations.....?

And were corrupt........?

there by corrupting your faith......?

I am just trying to understand how a you fell from being a respected anti-nuke activist /Believing in God and the bible.

And have become what you are today.......

A mere shell of what you once were.........

There has to be a reason......

could you share it with us........?

Shawn

[stuart_allsop]

I will tell you Jim,as soon as you explain why it is so important to you.

And Stuart ,I was born in the States and I currently Reside in Canada.........

WMM
Sorry Shawn! I guess I knew even less about you than I thought I did!

[stuart_allsop]

Though certain people refuse to acknowledge your brilliance, Stuart, I hope they will at least find delight in your superb sense of humor.

:D
Thanks, Yaak! At least me efforts at injecting humor are appreciated be some. Who said that konspiracy theory had to be dull and boring! :)

[whitemajikman]

You know what Irks me Jim ,that you can blatently propagate your hoax,and have people such as the gullible who frequent chemtrail central,believe in your hoax.........

How do you live with yourself......knowing that you are spreading your lies and deception all based upon your twisted outlook on life........


WMM

[halva]

Of course, one can choose, like the individuals I have ignore-listed and whose postings here I am not reading, to identify oneself with the forces that are causing all this, and one will not be punished for it. Not any more than those who do not identify with them, indeed do everything in their power to work agains them.

It is all our children and grandchildren that are going to be punished.
--------------------------------------------------
Climate change taskforce warns of dangerous warming

[This is the print version of story http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2004/s1244186.htm]


PM - Monday, 15 November , 2004 18:38:19
Reporter: Anne Barker
MARK COLVIN: The scientific consensus seems to be growing that global warming is not just coming, it's upon us.

An international climate change taskforce is meeting in Sydney this week to discuss ways of avoiding the worst effects of global warming, once the Kyoto protocol on greenhouse gases expires.

Taskforce members were shown a report by the CSIRO that warns of the serious dangers and inhospitable climate that Australia faces.

Anne Barker reports.

ANNE BARKER: It sounds like a doomsday scenario - an Australia so hot that some towns could become almost uninhabitable, with longer heatwaves than ever before and less rainfall.

That's the prediction in a CSIRO study that warns if global warming continues, by 2070 the number of days above 35 degrees will soar, with many inland towns facing well over 100 days a year of extreme heat.

The New South Wales Premier, Bob Carr, presented the report to the International Taskforce on Climate Change

BOB CARR: This is deadly serious and it's upon us. Global warming has got New South Wales in its grip as much as any other part of the world. We face these terrible increases in average climate. Parts of our State are already very hot, but if you look at where they're going to be by 2012 and then after 2030, is really going to be living in an oven.

ANNE BARKER: Taskforce members from 16 countries are meeting in Sydney this week to draw up the most ambitious plan yet to tackle climate change since the Kyoto protocol on greenhouse gas emissions.

Their challenge is to bring on board Australia and the US, as well as key developing nations, like China and India, something the Kyoto protocol failed to achieve.

The taskforce co-chairman, and former British minister, Stephen Byers says no country can afford to underestimate the dangers of global warming.

STEPHEN BYERS: Unless action is taken by governments across the whole of the globe, then we're going to face droughts, we're going to face really extreme weather conditions.

We know in the UK we've had floods this year that we've never seen before. Last year in Europe we had a heatwave which led to the loss of tens of thousands of lives. In America we've seen hurricanes hitting the coast of Florida and Louisiana. Wherever you look in the world, we're seeing the consequences of global warming.

ANNE BARKER: How realistic is it to come up with any meaningful strategy world wide, when you consider the problems we've seen negotiating the Kyoto protocol?

STEPHEN BYERS: Well you're right to point out that Kyoto has been very difficult and we've got major players, like Australia and the United States, who are not part of the Kyoto protocol.

So what we've got to try and do is to find a way of putting forward a framework which builds on Kyoto but brings on board those governments like that here in Australia, so that they say yes, we recognise global warming is a real challenge that we face. It addresses real issues, and that there is a way forward which the Australian Government will be prepared to accept and endorse.

ANNE BARKER: What do you say to the Australian Government in the wake of today's CSIRO report?

STEPHEN BYERS: Well no change is not an option. You can see very clearly the damaging effects to Australia of climate change. And the challenge for the John Howard Government is, is he prepared to take on the political challenge of saying yes, I recognise that something needs to be done. I don't believe that Kyoto is in the interests of Australia, which is what John Howard has said, but I recognise there will be a different way forward for Australia, and that we in Australia will do our bit to tackle global warming.

MARK COLVIN: The co-chairman of the International Taskforce on Climate Change, Stephen Byers, ending Anne Barker's report.

[halva]

Climate change already affecting global environment, reports say


Monday, November 15, 2004



NEW YORK - Global warming has had little noticeable impact in Washington, DC. Politicians in the US capital have been reluctant to set limits on the carbon dioxide pollution that is expected to warm the planet by 2º to 4º Celsius (4º to 7º Fahrenheit) during the next century, citing uncertainty about the severity of the threat.

But that uncertainty may have shrunk somewhat with the release two weeks ago of two scientific reports suggesting that global warming is not just a hypothetical possibility, but a real phenomenon that has already started transforming especially sensitive parts of the globe.

Overall, the reports say, Earth's climate has warmed by about a half-degree Celsius (1º Fahrenheit) since 1900. In the Arctic, where a number of processes amplify the warming effects of carbon dioxide, most regions have experienced a temperature rise of 2 to 4º Celsius (4 to 7º Fahrenheit) in the last 50 years.

That warmth has reduced the amount of snow that falls every winter, melted away mountain glaciers and shrunk the Arctic Ocean's summer sea ice cover to its smallest extent in millennia, according to satellite measurements. In Alaska, swaths of permafrost are thawing into soggy bogs, and trees are moving northward at the expense of the tundra that rings the Arctic Ocean.

These changes seriously threaten animals such as polar bears, which live and hunt on the sea ice. The bears have already suffered a 15 per cent decrease in their number of offspring and a similar decline in weight over the past 25 years. If the Arctic sea ice disappears altogether during the summer months, as some researchers expect it will by the end of the century, polar bears have little chance of survival.

Things are less serious on the mainland United States, where the effects of climate change have been more subtle. In much of the United States, spring arrives about two weeks earlier than it did 50 years ago. Tropical bird species have appeared in Florida and along the Gulf Coast. Species such as Edith's checkerspot, a butterfly native to western North America, have started dying out at the southern reaches of their ranges.

"Responses to climate change are being seen across the USA," said Camille Parmesan, a biologist at the University of Texas in Austin. She is the co-author, with Hector Galbraith of the University of Colorado in Boulder, of Observed Impacts of Global Climate Change in the US.

The report was released last Tuesday by the Pew Centre on Global Climate Change, a non-partisan but not disinterested research organisation dedicated to providing sound scientific information about global warming.

Parmesan and Galbraith acknowledge that nothing in the report would strike the average person as particularly alarming. They also allow that some of the past century's warming might have happened even if humans hadn't been pumping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. But they argue that the changes they describe should be taken as a "very clear signal" that climate change will have significant effects in coming decades.

"The canaries in the coal mine are squawking, and we should absolutely take that seriously," Galbraith said.
President George W Bush's administration has argued that not enough is known about climate change to justify major efforts at forestalling or preventing future warming.

The Arctic report, released last Monday, was commissioned by the Arctic Council, an international commission of eight countries, including the United States, and six indigenous groups. It was written by a team of 300 scientists.

"The report will be a valuable contribution to the literature on potential regional impacts of climate change, and the United States Government will take its findings into account as it continues to review the science," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said in a statement released Tuesday.

The United States faces a potential showdown with other members of the Arctic Council on November 24, when representatives of the organisation's members are scheduled to meet in Iceland to consider climate change policy recommendations.

The atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide has risen from 280 parts per million in 1800 to 380 parts per million today, due to the combustion of fossil fuels. Carbon dioxide causes warming because it heats up more when exposed to sunlight compared to other atmospheric gases.

Scientists have always expected the Arctic to respond earlier and more intensely than other regions to the build-up of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, thanks to several phenomena that make the far north especially sensitive to climate perturbations. When warmer temperatures melt snow, for example, the bare ground that is exposed absorbs more heat than the white surface did, causing yet more warming. A similar thing happens when sea ice melts, exposing open water.

In the past three Septembers, the Arctic sea ice has melted back 12 per cent to 15 per cent beyond its normal minimum extent.

"It almost suggests that maybe we're about to reach a threshold beyond which the sea ice may not be able to recover," said Mark Serreze of the National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Boulder, Colorado.

[whitemajikman]

Wayne,Global Warming is definitely upon us.

But what can you do to stop it........?

It is naturally occuring,good luck on trying to stop a force of nature.......

I think you need to understand that we must learn to live with global warming.........

There are no other Options......

No matter how much you wish to fantasize about Environmental Activism,Or Governments being able to do anything about it.......

So instead of repeating yourself and your spam.......

Try finding a solution on how we can live with global warming.......

WMM

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Dearests gray matter challenged Allsoup Fabulous,

Let me remind you and your upside down religious brethern that we are not on a first name basis. You can call me 'is,' which should work. It think you can spell it and remember it. It still won't mean that I will say anything back. I tend to ignore blatant ignorance.

I don't want even the slightest suggestion for approving of you goof-balls and racketeers.

IMHO,
is

[whitemajikman]

Jim quit the Bullshit .........and be human.

for a change.

Now what can you tell me about Church Street.......?

Shawn

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Wayne,

I tried the separate thread thing first thing. See: http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-15635.html
No Go.

I think they are here because of you and your speaking the truth on man-made global warming.

They don't want the European truth on global warming connected to the Bush darlings gas business to make front page news in the US. Then all the Environmentalists over here that are not a part of the cover ups will be up in arms on Big Oil and Coal melting the poles, flooding all the coast areas, killing the trees and animal species, and all that.

Bush and his cronies exist by the art of pure cheating and deceiving the public in the US, from lots of science misleads, to manipulated religion issues pulled in Govt. affairs---it is the most corrupted Govt on the face of the planet these days.

So, you got a Texas Oil type from the Islands where the DuPonts and the Rockefellers own so much, You got this Masonic Canadia Jew that has long been spinning that the End-Times stuff just is total BS, and you got some ding-bat holy roller in Chili helping pose as the pious voice of religious reason. Then there is Gaia, who is likely not the real Judah, but appears to have some common sense.

Gaia, you appear to know this Maji gangster, what is the last name for him?

They are all here Just for you Mr. Wayne. You must have some big Mojo effect over there in Europe that they as scared to death will catch on over here.

They are your shadows, here to harrass and always counter anything to do with man-induced global warming or existance of chemtrail methods that you list.

BTW, since I am around. I am going to start picking up your global warming stories and echoing them into the US environmental activist networks. That should make your detractors very happy.

PS---always list the articles URL, where possible and I will submit to the hugh hit news types of Rense, Icke, etc. Will wake up America to exactly what is going on.

IMHO,
is

[whitemajikman]

BTW, since I am around. I am going to start picking up your global warming stories and echoing them into the US environmental activist networks. That should make your detractors very happy.

Your not going to be free long enough to do anything of the sort..........

I have already made sure of that.

WMM

[Insurrectionchemistry]

"I have already made sure of that."


More hate crime level intimidation and tthreats against Christians ah. From the Christ hating Jewish Mason in Canada.

A Mafia is a mafia--even if it involves Congress persons. This should get real interesting, as churches should have every right to invest only in areas that recognize Christ and his values. I suspect this altercation will wake up the church and result in a massive voter turn out of corrupted politicians that support Zionist extremisms.

IMHO,
is


http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/paid_politicians.html


'Paid Politicians' Targeting
Christian Boycott Of Israel
By Michael Collins Piper
11-16-4

At the instigation of the Zionist Organization of America, 13 members of
Congress have sent a letter to the Department of Commerce demanding that action be
taken to stop the American branches of the Presbyterian and Episcopalian
churches from divesting in companies that do business in Israel. They have
suggested that the churches are in violation of the U.S. Export Administration Act
(EAA), which prohibits Americans from participating in the long-standing Arab
boycott of Israel. But the campaign by the "paid politicians" against the
Christian churches goes much further than this: the members of Congress are going so
far as to suggest that, along with the churches, students, academic
organizations and other institutions that urge Americans to disinvest in companies
doing business with Israel are also in violation of the EAA.

The members of Congress are charging that the very act of advocating
divestment from Israel is illegal.

The ringleaders of the group are two New Jersey representatives: Jim Saxton,
a Republican, and Rob Andrews, a Democrat. The 11 others include: Joe Crowley
(D-N.Y.), Pete Sessions (R-Texas), Dennis Cardoza (D-Calif.), Michael McNulty
(D-N.Y.), Peter King (R-N.Y.), Madeleine Bordallo (D-Guam), Martin Frost
(D-Texas), Philip Crane (R-Ill.), Shelley Berkley (D-Nev.), Carolyn Maloney
(D-N.Y.) and Marilyn Musgrave (R-Colo.).

A press release from the Zionist Organization of America, dated Sept. 28,
2004, claimed credit for inducing the bipartisan group of federal office holders
to send the letter to the Commerce Department.

In the meantime, another group of congressmen, led by Rep. Howard L. Berman
(D-Calif.), have sent a strongly worded letter to the Presbyterian Church USA
condemning the vote to begin selective disinvestments from companies doing
business with Israel.

Those representatives joining Berman in attacking the Presbyterian Church for
its action include: Roy Blunt (R-Missouri), Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), Deborah
Pryce (R-Ohio), John Lewis (D-Ga.), John Linder (R-Ga.), Henry Waxman (D-Calif.),
Mark Steven Kirk (R-Ill.), Gary Ackerman (D-N.Y.), Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Linda
Sanchez (D-Calif.), Tom Feeney (R-Fla.), Barney Frank (D-Mass.), and Lamar
Smith (R-Texas).

Joining the members of Congress in slamming the Presbyterian and Episcopal
churches is Rabbi Gary Bretton-Granatoor, the "interfaith affairs director" of
the Israeli lobby group known as the Anti-Defamation League. Bretton-Granatoor
said: "The Presbyterian divestment could potentially create a snowball effect
and resurrect what had been a moribund issue. Now it has provoked the
Anglicans [the Episcopal Church-Ed.], and we know it will not end there."

Although the rabbi added, in a threatening fashion, "We have to send a clear
message to every church that they will have to face a united Jewish community
on this issue," the fact is that even many grass-roots American Jews have
urged divestment in Israel, evidently shamed by the actions of Israel against the
Muslim and Christian Arab Palestinian people under its domination.

Following the passage of measures in July 2004 calling for selective
divestment of stock in corporations within the church's $8 billion portfolio which
profit by supporting violence in Israel and Palestine, the Presbyterian Church
issued a statement saying it wanted to send a strong message to the U.S.,
Israeli and Palestinian governments, so they could begin to "lay aside arrogant
political posturing and get on with forging negotiated compromises that open a
path to peace."

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Listings already being passed back and forth to US systems for weeks now. Even some coming my way now. And I will put the general word out for this to make it a special high emphasis and connected it fully with DOE and man-made related inducement.

is


Austrialia summer cooking from man-made global warming---see story here:



http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?id=4942&met
hod=full

Epic Drought Threatens Australian Drinking Water Supplies
Australia in grip of water crisis

BBCNews.com, Nov. 10, 2004

There is a warning that some of Australia's major cities could run out of
drinking water.

Much of this arid continent is in the grip of one of the driest periods in
living memory.

"We're in a sustained drought now and if that goes on for another year, we're
going to have real problems," Professor Peter Cullen, leader of the Wentworth
Group of Concerned Scientists, told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

"Some of our major (cities) are really in a race at the moment to see who's
going to run out of water first."

A big worry is that in such a parched country, water supplies in many
Australian cities cannot cope with rapid population growth.

Levels at the Warragamba dam that provides 80% of Sydney's water have reached
record lows.

Recent heavy rain has helped, but the biggest and probably the most thirsty
city in Australia needs a steady drenching of 40mm of rain to fall in the
catchment areas every day for a week before dams return to "comfortable" levels.

It is proof that Australia's water crisis has moved from the dusty outback
and into the suburbs and towns.

The people of Goulburn, a large town a couple of hours drive southwest of
Sydney, have been living with tough water restrictions for much of the past two
years.

Matthew O'Rourke, from the local council, said that each resident was allowed
to use up 150 litres per day, the equivalent of three 5-minute showers.

He has warned that without significant rainfall Goulburn's supplies will
reach a "critical level" by July 2005.

"The goal would be for the community to fundamentally change the way it uses
water," Mr O'Rourke said.

The message appears to be getting through. If community spirit is not enough,
there is always the threat of fines to encourage compliance.

"My youngest daughter is five and she's quite water-conscious," said Gillian
Webber, a computer graphics worker in Goulburn.

"If she sees a puddle of water she gets quite excited because we've had so
little (rain) in the past two years."

"This summer will be difficult for the kids because they've closed sporting
fields," the mother-of-three added. "They're just too hard and dry."

New thinking

Long-term Goulburn resident Ken May said it has not been easy adapting to the
restrictions.

"It's been very difficult," said the 73-year old retired teacher. "We're
allowed
150 litres of water per person per day and that includes baths, cooking,
everything."

But it is not all bad news. Ken's water bills have plummeted since the
restrictions were brought in.

Asked if he could remember the days when Australians used water freely, he
replied: "Ah, yes - that was only five or six years ago. Gee - it really makes
us think that we really did waste so much water."

Australia's salvation appears to lie with education, awareness and tapping
into new sources of water.

Blair Nancarrow, a water expert at Australia's Commonwealth Scientific and
Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), believes a way out of the current
emergency is within reach.

"Everybody needs to pull together," she said. "We could run around and say
it's a big crisis but it's not. There are plenty of sources. It's a matter of
what we're going to do and what we're prepared to do."

Green gardens and dishwashers could soon become luxuries beyond the reach of
most households.

The recycling of water, desalinisation plants and the harnessing of storm
water - which often, and rather frustratingly for many Australians, simply flows
into the sea - are options.

Blair Nancarrow, who is based in Western Australia, has said cities like
Perth must get used to living with less rain.

"There was a dramatic drop [in rainfall] here in the mid 1970s and again in
the mid-90s. It looks like this will now be the norm," she predicted.

[stuart_allsop]

I tend to ignore blatant ignorance.So how do you manage to shave and brush your hair without actually looking at yourself in the mirror every morning, then? :)

And why is it that you flat refuse to defend or even comment on any of the numerous silly claims of yours that I have thoroughly debunked here? I shot them down in flames, and you made no attempt at all to defend them. Why is that?

Your silence is a clear indicator that you CANNOT defned them, becuase you realize that you were WRONG.


How come you refuse to address even one of the NUMEROUS GLARING ERRORS in your posts that I have pointed out to you?

For one who claims to be so intelligent, it really is EXEEDINGLY strange that you make so many silly basic errors, and even stranger that you flat refuse to either recognize them as errors when they are pointed out to you (which would be the normal thing that an honest, intelligent person would do), or to defend them by showing that what I said about them was not correct (which would be the normal thing that an honest, intelligent person would do)?

Why is that?

Of course, we all know that you cannot answer the above questions, since to do so you would have to admit that you were wrong on several MAJOR issues that are at the core of your agenda. And since it runs counter to chemkook religion to EVER admit a mistake, you wont!

PREDICITON: Instead of admitting your errors or defending them, you will do what all ignorant trolls do when backed into a corner by superior intelligence supported by real science: You will continue to ignore the issues, and attack the messenger. You will continue to not reply to any of my posts, feigning that fake superiorty attitude behind which you hide, you will continue to avoid the issue of your numerous errors, at any cost, and you will resort to the exact same thing that all other trolls do when cornered, as I have cornered you: mud sligning, personal attacks, and by making all possible attempts to draw attention away from the highly embarrasing displays that you have made here of your own gross ignorance of both science and religion.

Sorry, Jim, you lose. On all counts.

[foot_soldier]

Mon dieu...

Do tell us, please, Mr. Allsop, where we might line up to kiss your ass.

[stuart_allsop]

Mon dieu...

Do tell us, please, Mr. Allsop, where we might line up to kiss your ass.I think you just did! :)

[foot_soldier]

Enjoy your fun while you can, Mr. Allsop.

More people than you know are not only aware of the problems we face but they are actually studying them quite intensively. And by "studying" I do mean, among other things, closely following the scientific literature.

You would be ill-advised to underestimate the impact of an increasingly well-informed public where the issue of pollution-driven regional climatic instability is concerned.

[Yaak]

From Jimmy's story above:

"It's been very difficult," said the 73-year old retired teacher. "We're
allowed 150 litres of water per person per day and that includes baths, cooking,
everything."
150 litres? On a wasteful day I might use 50 iitres; typically I use 25. Western civilization is spoiled.

They build their homes in the desert, on the river bank or the beach, on a steep dirt incline, straddling an earthquake fault, etc. Then they demand sympathy when nature behaves like it has been behaving for all of recorded history.

I feel sorry for them, but not in the way they expect.

[Yaak]

Austrialia summer cooking from man-made global warmingman-made?

Horse Manure!

You haven't been paying attention, Jimmy Boy. There is not one shred of evidence to support your claim. If you had been reading the information from reliable sources that Whitemajikman has presented, you would realize this.

No, you've concerned yourself with how Whitemajikman worships God. You have posted nonsense from unreliable resources such as Rense and AmericanFreePress, and spun conspiracy yarns. Next, you'll be posting from The National Inquirer.

You are knucking futz! { :) }

[halva]

Dearests gray matter challenged Allsoup Fabulous,

Let me remind you and your upside down religious brethern that we are not on a first name basis. You can call me 'is,' which should work. It think you can spell it and remember it. It still won't mean that I will say anything back. I tend to ignore blatant ignorance.

I don't want even the slightest suggestion for approving of you goof-balls and racketeers.

IMHO,
is

You can ignore-list them, Jim. And why isn't footsoldier doing the same?

If you have any status at all in the scientific community zero in on this issue. Leave your cogitations on the Zionists for your private diary and the edification of posterity. Forget about chemtrails temporarily. Hammer anthropogenic climate change and those still denying it.

Which doesn't mean debating peabrains on this forum. Work through the existing organizations.
In the real world.

Start another thread on Israel if you want to talk about Israel-related problems. Israel is a state. People who don't like what the Greek state does don't attack Byzantinism, which - in parallel, and partially in competition, with glorification of ancient Greece, particularly ancient Athens - plays a similar role in Greece to the role of Zionism in Israel and internationally. In fact the concept of Byzantinism doesn't even exist, though it is as much a reality as Zionism. Even 'Hellenism' is not a concept that exists in English. It has remained confined to the Greek language.

[Yaak]

From: http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7472



SmT-Actually when I read through Jim Phelps paper regarding the many different types of atmospheric modifications currently going on and his explanations, I was convinced this guy might well BE God or at least conversing with the Divine. He is by far ONE of the most interesting people I have ever read
regarding "chemtrails". He has been here at CTC a few times and I think he could explain ALOT if he would stick around.


Aren't you ashamed of yourself Jimmy? Poor gullible, naive Lynn George, aka Show-me-Truth, aka Orwell knew, aka SmT.

Everyone here knows that you didn't "stick around" because even the chemmies would have begun to find holes in your wild fabrications. Con men have to keep on the move. You are disgusting.

[foot_soldier]

November 15, 2004
GM, DuPont Adapt to Kyoto Environmental Standards
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aSedVkbj0CwQ&refer=us

Nov. 15 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. companies including General Motors Corp., DuPont Co. and Xerox Corp. are cutting carbon dioxide emissions to remain competitive in European countries that have adopted Kyoto Protocol limits rejected by President George W. Bush.

U.S. manufacturers are concerned they may lose their ability to operate factories or sell products in countries that have ratified the treaty, said Richard Sandor, chairman of Chicago Climate Exchange, which certifies companies that reduce greenhouse gas emissions. So far, 126 countries have accepted the Kyoto agreement, including all 25 members of the European Union.

More than a quarter of sales from Standard & Poor's 500 members are in non-U.S. markets, according to estimates by CIBC World Markets and PricewaterhouseCoopers. About a third of DuPont's $26.9 billion in annual sales and 28 percent of General Motors' $185 billion are generated in countries that have adopted the Kyoto agreement.

"Anybody anywhere who wants to look me in the eye and tell me that American companies aren't going to adapt and react and do what they have to do, I'm going to laugh,'' said Darren McKinney, a spokesman for the National Association of Manufacturers in Washington.

'A Leg Up'

The U.S. also risks lagging behind Kyoto-compliant competitors in the development and marketing of emissions- reducing technology that increases energy efficiency. U.S. companies that do meet Kyoto standards won't be allowed to sell carbon dioxide emissions credits, as companies can in countries that have ratified the Kyoto accord.

"The president's decision to pull out of the Kyoto Protocol is going to cost U.S. energy technology companies millions of dollars,'' said Philip Clapp, president of the National Environment Trust, an environmental policy group in Washington. "The international agreement will create a multibillion dollar market in the developing world for renewable energy technologies, and the Germans and the Japanese, participants in Kyoto, are going to have a leg up in that market.''

White House spokesman Scott McClellan reiterated the administration's opposition to the Kyoto accord on Nov. 12, saying "we made our views very clearly known about why we could not support'' it. He cited "the upwards of 5 million jobs it would cost the United States and the economic impact in terms of the cost.''..... (continued)

[foot_soldier]

November 15, 2004
McCain Pans Administration on Climate Change
http://www.fox23news.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=E7B9FA82-DB12-4E9A-BED6-02A96D032678

Sen. John McCain called the White House stance on climate change disappointing and urged stronger action, the New York Times reported Tuesday.

The Arizona Republican, who was scheduled to lead a Senate Commerce Committee hearing on the issue Tuesday, said the administration's's inaction on the issue in the face of mounting scientific data was unjustified.

Over the last three years, McCain has pushed for legislation that would create what he calls modest restrictions on the production of so-called greenhouse gases, an effort the administration opposes.

Citing the potential job-killing costs of mandates on the the U.S. economy, the Bush administration has pushed for voluntary efforts to reduce the production of so-called heat-trapping gases that some scientists believe have caused global temperatures to rise.

McCain acknowledged that his legislation is likely dead for the foreseeable future, something the administration's allies on the issue have predicted since the GOP gained four additional seats in the U.S. Senate on Nov. 2. However, he said, he would move ahead because, "We need to get people on the record on the issue."

***
As for "the potential job-killing costs of mandates on the the U.S. economy", what about the rampant outsourcing of American jobs that's being allowed to transpire unfettered under the current administration? Bush is a hypocrite. He's not as concerned about the average working American as he is about keeping his oily supporters happy.

[foot_soldier]

Web site of Representative Jay Inslee, D-Washington State:
http://www.house.gov/inslee/apollo.htm

[halva]

Listings already being passed back and forth to US systems for weeks now. Even some coming my way now. And I will put the general word out for this to make it a special high emphasis and connected it fully with DOE and man-made related inducement.

is


Austrialia summer cooking from man-made global warming---see story here:



http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?id=4942&met
hod=full


In 2002 I revisited (32 years later) the once immaculate and now as ever utterly soulless little city of Canberra, Australia, where I started my working career as a civil servant in 1970, to abandon it forever after a year. In 2002 it struck me how very right that decision had been, whatever the financial costs to me personally, because the air of seediness hanging over that place was striking to say the least. Even then the drought was playing a big role in this, because Canberra is/was a city of parks and gardens.

The city I remembered as visually very attractive and green in 1970 was a beige dustbowl.

I don't know what particular idiocies Raynolds' liltle hangers on are posting on this subject, but I spit in their faces.

[foot_soldier]

Originally posted by halva:
.....In 2002 I revisited (32 years later) the once immaculate and now as ever utterly soulless little city of Canberra, Australia, where I started my working career as a civil servant in 1970, to abandon it forever after a year. In 2002 it struck me how very right that decision had been, whatever the financial costs to me personally, because the air of seediness hanging over that place was striking to say the least. Even then the drought was playing a big role in this, because Canberra is/was a city of parks and gardens.

The city I remembered as visually very attractive and green in 1970 was a beige dustbowl.....
Direct observation is an extremely valuable component of the education process where regional climate change issues are concerned.

The f-ing idiots whose standard response to the above and similar observations would run along the lines of, "It's always been that way, you just never noticed before" or "Memory is not a reliable source of information" have a very specific agenda. They are acting as mobile units for the decimation of actual human experience. As if everybody is lying through their teeth in regard to what is happening right before our eyes.

[whitemajikman]

I don't know what particular idiocies Raynolds' liltle hangers on are posting on this subject, but I spit in their faces.

Wayne ,in your need to feel Important,you have forgotten a few things........

1) Is that Global warming is a Natural occurence.
2) even if you convince the entire world it was Man-made and they enact legislation,and spend the trillions it will take to switch from carbon based energy,It will not STOP Global warming.

3)In the end all of your hard work and determination will amount to nothing,because you do not possess the power to change the Earth's natural cycle.

4) If you disagree with any of these points,talk to any paleoclimatologist,and they will tell you ,what I have been telling you.

That this isn't the first time that the Earth has gone into a warming trend,and it will not be the last.

5)You are using Man-made Global warming as a platform for all of your other environmental concerns.......

How much Integrity is there in that........?

WMM

[gaiacomm]

Hey...JR what size orange jump suit do you wear? LOL

[whitemajikman]

Direct observation is an extremely valuable component of the education process where regional climate change issues are concerned.

The f-ing idiots whose standard response to the above and similar observations would run along the lines of, "It's always been that way, you just never noticed before" or "Memory is not a reliable source of information" have a very specific agenda. They are acting as mobile units for the decimation of actual human experience. As if everybody is lying through their teeth in regard to what is happening right before our eyes.

Deborah your full of shit.......

There is no such thing as regional Global Warming..........

Global Warming effects the entire planet.....

has it ever occured to you that what you are observing is a natural occurence in the lifespan of the earth......?

How old is mankind 200,000 years old tops......

How old is the Earth, 4.55 billion years old...............

How many cooling and warming trends occurred in that 4.55 billion years...........?

How long have we been studying climate change.......?

keeping records.......?

200 years tops..........

yet you and every other environmentalist,scientist,and think tank have the audacity to think that you know for certain what you are observing is caused by man.........

Science has come a long way in the last hundred years,I will give you that.......

But even today we still do not know how the Earth interacts with itself fully...........

And quite frankly blaming Global warming on man is bad science until all of the facts have been presented......

It is unfair of you and every other Environmentalist or scientist to try and pin the issue of pollution to the global warming trend.......

Pollution is a seperate and distinct issue all together..........

Playing political games and getting your message out does nothing to solve the original problem of global warming,but only leads to more problems which will effect the entire globe.

things like sustainability ........

higher costs of import and exports........

higher costs in utilities.........

monetary hardship for the poor......

the stalling of developing countries......

the loss of jobs globally.........

etc.....etc.....etc........

I do not think that there is one environmentalist who thinks with their head........

Instead they think with their heart.........and have this vision of a green utopian society which is unrealistic and unattainable.........

before you jump the gun think about how your actions will effect the general population of the world.......

You fancy yourself as somebody who is enlightened.......

but really you are blind to everything else except your goals...........and how it will effect the entire world.........

thats not being enlightened thats being arrogant and self-serving/...........

WMM

[Insurrectionchemistry]

"Hey...JR what size orange jump suit do you wear? LOL"

Well Gaia,

You have become quite the prognosticator. You must know the inner sanctum on chemtrails methods. JR's Stars and "Stripes" forever.

is

[jayreynolds]

Of course, one can choose, like the individuals I have ignore-listed and whose postings here I am not reading, ........

Wayne, we all now that is bullshit.
You read it all.

[halva]

Wayne, we all now that is bullshit.
You read it all.

This really, Raynolds is all you have to say.

Tell us some more about Lance Haubrick being Gaiacomm, or about David Stewart having invented the Deep Shield documents out of his head or about me having tried to palm off a fake chemtrails photomontage on the Ethnos newspaper in Athens.

You are just a pile of shit, Raynolds, and your time is running out.

[jayreynolds]

People who don't like what the Greek state does don't attack Byzantinism, which - in parallel, and partially in competition, with glorification of ancient Greece, particularly ancient Athens - plays a similar role in Greece to the role of Zionism in Israel and internationally. In fact the concept of Byzantinism doesn't even exist, though it is as much a reality as Zionism. Even 'Hellenism' is not a concept that exists in English. It has remained confined to the Greek language.

Wayne, wrong again. What youn refer to is a weird sort of melange in greek culture which holds that greeks are a superior race, that Jews are out to get you and control the world.

SOUNDS RATHER FAMILIAR, DOESN'T IT???

It's really a thinly disguised repackaging of naziism in a toga. It is readable in English.
Despite what Wayne Hall would have you falsely believe, the chemtrail hoax is principally carried on in Greece by a Demosthenes Liakopoulos, a well known racist who has shown his hand on this forum before, and elsewhere:
http://www.pdastreet.com/boards/America-Under-Attack/messages/357.html

Here is one well known greek neo-nazi site:
http://www.grecoreport.com

Here is another:
http://www.hellas.org/news/1996/nea-96al.htm

Here isa description of the problem:
http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/english/reports/perdurant-on-greek-antisemitism.html

Tough when you get debunked on a daily, even hourly basis, eh, Wayne?

[jayreynolds]

This really, Raynolds is all you have to say.

Tell us some more about Lance Haubrick being Gaiacomm, or about David Stewart having invented the Deep Shield documents out of his head or about me having tried to palm off a fake chemtrails photomontage on the Ethnos newspaper in Athens.

You are just a pile of shit, Raynolds, and your time is running out.

Lance Haubrick, a septic tank inspector for the Bureau of Indian affairs DOES pose as 'Dr. Judah ben Hur', David Stewart DOES admit to having authored the 'deep shield' hoax, and YOU DID transmit a faked photo from a greek communist newspaper to William Thomas, who displays it on his website.

All these are warning signs that point towards your involvement personally and through your network of chem-cultists in promoting hoaxers and hoaxes. Time will prove me correct, and you as being exactly what i say you are. There simply isn't anything you can do about it.

[stuart_allsop]

Israel is a state. People who don't like what the Greek state does don't attack Byzantinism, which - in parallel, and partially in competition, with glorification of ancient Greece, particularly ancient Athens - plays a similar role in Greece to the role of Zionism in Israel and internationally. In fact the concept of Byzantinism doesn't even exist, though it is as much a reality as Zionism. Even 'Hellenism' is not a concept that exists in English. It has remained confined to the Greek language.

Wow! First time in recorded history that Halva has actually said anything sane and coherent!

There is hope for humanity, after all!

[halva]

Raynolds, I understand that you are a principled man very much opposed to racism, particularly anti-Semitism.

Given that much of what Jim Phelps has been posting here I am sure is classified by you as racist and anti-Semitic, I asked you if you thought I should dissociate myself from him by ignore-listing him.

Your answer to me was that I should not ignore anything. You therefore encouraged me not to dissociate myself from Jim Phelps but to continue to expose myself to his (as you keep telling us) pernicious influence.

After telling me that I should not ignore anything, i.e. to try to break the bad habit of ignoring what I dislike or disagree with, you then tell me that anyway I don't have this habit. You claim, in fact, to know by some mysterious means that I have in fact been reading everything that is posted here, including the graffiti put up by the street hooligans you have in tow behind you.

(Apologies to street hooligans. The Raynoldite coterie here represent an even lower form of life. Street hooligans are often obliged to preserve an image of being physically courageous.)

Do you know your ass from your elbow Raynolds?

Do you keep a track on what you say from one moment to the next?

Do I ignore postings here or do I not?

Should I dissociate myself from Jim Phelps or should I not?

The contradictions you get yourself into are part and parcel of your role of freelance would-be wedgedriver waiting for your opportunity to thrust your implement into any crack you see turning up.

If Jim Phelps appears to be doing what I ask, i.e. not introducing extraneous material to this thread, you ridicule him for taking orders from 'your boss Wayne'.

If he does the opposite, you ridicule me for being a loser who can't get the co-operation even of my closest collaborators.

There is a role for wedgedrivers like you for as long as the cracks keep appearing. One day they cease appearing and there you are alone with your wedge and with nowhere to shove it, and all eyes focused on you. That day is very close at hand for you Raynolds.

[jayreynolds]

Wayne, I asked you if you wereready to disassociate yourself from Phelps. I told you to not ignore, but rather to expose him for what he is, a racist nincompoop and a lying hoaxer.

My meaning was quite clear, no contradiction.
If you ever smarten up, you might realize that I'm a truer friend than most whom you now hold close. I am the one willing to tell you the truth about what an idiot you've been, and have shown you the way out of it.

If you ignore things, like you have with Phelp's, it just gets worse, as it has. Only by exposing lies will you cure yourself of the severe case of idiocy you display on a daily basis.

Now, have a look at what lame rsponses came from the chemmies to some simple questions and you'll see what I mean. This is the best your people can do, and your promotion of false hoaxers like William Thomas, Cliffie Carnicom, David G. Stewart, and Jim Phelps helped bring them down to this level.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chemtrailtrackingusa/message/117394

[Insurrectionchemistry]

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/story.jsp?story=582743

US Study Links More Than
200 Diseases To Pollution
By Geoffrey Lean
Environment Editor
The Independent - UK
11-17-4

Pollution has been linked to about 200 different diseases, ranging from
cerebral palsy to testicular atrophy, as well as more than 37 kinds of cancer,
startling US research shows.

The study, which the authors say probably underestimates the full toll of the
contamination, will focus attention on the need for information on the tens
of thousands of chemicals routinely released into the environment.

But Britain has weakened the proposed European Union regulations to provide
safety information on the substances at the behest of the US government.

The research, by doctors at what was then the University of California and at
the Boston Medical Center, was restricted to listing only effects that had
been found by several different studies and which are often well known.

More than 120 diseases have been definitively linked to pollution, and in
another 33 evidence of a link is judged to be "good". For the rest the evidence
is "limited".

Nine different pollutants have been "verified" to cause asthma - including
four from car exhausts, the subject of an Independent on Sunday campaign - the
study shows. Testicular atrophy is caused by oestrogen, increasingly found in
British rivers that supply drinking water. Mercury poisoning can cause cerebral
palsy, while more than 50 pollutants - ranging from dioxins to PCBs - have
been shown to cause cancer.

Other effects include: kidney disease, heart disease, hypertension, diabetes,
dermatitis bronchitis, hyperactivity, deafness, sperm damage and Alzheimer's
and Parkinson's diseases.

One of the authors, Dr Ted Schletter of the Boston Medical Center, said
yesterday: "The human body is in constant conversation with this chemical milieu
and some substances have turned out to be important contributors to disease." He
said pollution often acted in concert with genetic predispositions to
developing particular illnesses.

Dr J Peterson Myers, chief executive of the Virginia-based Environmental
Health Sciences, said because science continued to find new effects of pollution,
the number of diseases linked to it was "very much higher".

At the last count - more than 20 years ago - more than 100,000 chemicals were
in use in Europe. Few have been properly tested.

Blood tests in the UK, the rest of Europe and the US indicate that most
people carry potentially hazardous chemicals in their bodies.

The European Commission has been trying to introduce a new directive
requiring industry to provide safety information on the 30,000 most common chemicals,
but this measure has been watered down because of pressure from the Bush
administration.

A leaked cable signed by Colin Powell, the US Secretary of State, complains
that the measures "would be significantly more burdensome to industry and
government" and would "impact" on US exports to Europe. Tony Blair, President
Jacques Chirac of France and Chancellor Gerhard Schrder of Germany wrote a joint
letter to the Commission and succeeded in weakeningthe measure.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

A universal message from Oak Ridge, in language independent Divine Imagery from God.

http://www.doewatch.com/Mary2.JPG


The monster that errupted from the Manhattan Project. The Mary Icon standing on the Earth with Hebrew atom sign. Mary's foot controlling the run away religion aspects of Moses followers serpent worship.

Moses' methods lead straigh to Hell on Earth and eternal burning---when the CO-2 sequestration cuts loose.

Mary's methods lead to moderation and 1000 years of peace. Mary's son respected all people, including the Arabs. Mary's son challenged the poisons in the Moses and Pharisee fabrications on God.

From that some 2,000 years ago sprang the basis for Revelations.

The Jews get a choice. The US gets a choice.

The sensible one is not to put DC under 230 ft of water from polar melts and loss of CO-2 sequestion. Uncontrollable heating of the Earth, Hell on Earth and massive population losses. Humanity will not sustain.

The sensible one for the Jews is give up their religion's insanity. Learn to live with everyone else and avoid a huge nuclear war.

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

"Hey...JR what size orange jump suit do you wear? LOL"

Well Gaia,

You have become quite the prognosticator. You must know the inner sanctum on chemtrails methods. JR's Stars and "Stripes" forever.

is

Yes, I have.....As for Chemtrails they are REAL and caused by man's inabilities to understand the true meaning of nature and the total ignorance of chemicals and how they work.


I forgot to ask JR';s wife Karen what size she wears. They would wish two!

[gaiacomm]

JR and company have no more power than in the stream of piss that comes from the tip of their respective penis symbols that are attached to their groins and on their faces!

[gaiacomm]

Lance Haubrick, a septic tank inspector for the Bureau of Indian affairs DOES pose as 'Dr. Judah ben Hur', David Stewart DOES admit to having authored the 'deep shield' hoax, and YOU DID transmit a faked photo from a greek communist newspaper to William Thomas, who displays it on his website.

All these are warning signs that point towards your involvement personally and through your network of chem-cultists in promoting hoaxers and hoaxes. Time will prove me correct, and you as being exactly what i say you are. There simply isn't anything you can do about it.


JR, Prove these statements so we can ban you forever! Time we have facts you don't!

[gaiacomm]

The JEWS have ruled long enough and have made a mess of Gods creations. They must be replaced by people who are humans and can follow instruction from God and not change the rules as the Jews do thru time.....

[gaiacomm]

This really, Raynolds is all you have to say.

Tell us some more about Lance Haubrick being Gaiacomm, or about David Stewart having invented the Deep Shield documents out of his head or about me having tried to palm off a fake chemtrails photomontage on the Ethnos newspaper in Athens.

You are just a pile of shit, Raynolds, and your time is running out.


Come on JR and company....you have been placed on noticed!

[gaiacomm]

Jews worst fear: http://www.hamasonline.com/

[Insurrectionchemistry]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4018261.stm

Climate change 'ruining' Everest
By Richard Black
BBC environment correspondent

Campaigners demand urgent assessment of the risks to Everest
A delegation of environmental lawyers is starting a new initiative to force action on global warming.
They are arguing that governments which are members of Unesco - the UN's cultural and scientific agency - are legally bound to protect World Heritage Sites from damage.

Some sites are threatened by climate change, they say - and governments can only protect them by reducing emissions of greenhouse gases.

Legal dossiers concerning three World Heritage Sites will be delivered to Unesco in Paris this week.

"There's a very important mechanism in the World Heritage Convention," said Peter Roderick, director of Climate Justice, the organisation co-ordinating this action.


It's very important that Unesco says that the legal obligation of parties to the World Heritage Convention will not be complied with unless greenhouse gas emissions are cut

Peter Roderick, Climate Justice
"It entitles people to ask the World Heritage Committee to place the site in danger on this list, and thereby ensure it gets more protection," he told BBC News.

"And so we're saying to the World Heritage Committee, 'look, climate change is already affecting these priceless and irreplaceable parts of the planet'."

'Rotten' ice

This campaign involves three "priceless and irreplaceable" places: the Belize Barrier Reef, where, conservationists say, coral is dying as water warms; Huascarán National Park in Peru, and Sagarmatha National Park in the Himalayas.

In these two mountain ranges, the dossiers say, ice is melting away; even the world's highest mountain, Everest, could one day be nothing but rock.


Healthy great star coral (top) and diseased (bottom)
Mark New, a climatologist from Oxford University, UK, who works on the Himalayas, told BBC News: "We know that over the last 30 years, in the eastern Himalayas, snow cover and ice cover have decreased on average by about 30%; so there's 30% less ice and snow than there was 30 years ago."

Relatively little science has been done on the highest mountains, because they're so hostile and inaccessible.

But a documentary to be released this week, made by the independent British film-maker Richard Heap, with support from the United Nations Environment Programme (Unep), shows anecdotal evidence that the Himalayas are changing.

At an altitude of over 4,000m, the crew found a vast glacier lake, which according to their maps, had not been there a few decades before. There had, though, been a glacier.

They also found large tracts of ice which were, in mountaineers' terms, "rotten" - wetter, and less stable than they had been on previous expeditions decades earlier.

Carbon cuts

The Nepalese environmental group Pro Public is leading the Himalayas campaign to Unesco, and it is concerned about more than natural beauty.

Glacier lakes can overflow, sending sudden massive torrents of water down populated river beds.


The Himalayas are a climatologically very complex area - there's a lot of variability in the climate system that tends to obscure what might be a climate change signal

Mark New, Oxford University
In the long term, there are also concerns for south Asia's water users.

Himalayan ice melts into the waters of major rivers such as the Ganges, the Indus, and the Brahmaputra; as the ice disappears, so may substantial portions of south Asia's water supply.

"We are the least developed countries and we don't have many resources," said Prakash Sharma, executive director of Pro Public.

"And also, the Nepalese are not responsible for what's happening there - maybe we might be a little bit responsible, but I think [it is] the global phenomenon of climate change.

"The parties to this convention have agreed to protect the World Heritage Site because it is the unique part of the world, and we need to protect it."

After Unesco receives its three dossiers, it can if it wishes set up inquiries into what is happening in Sagarmatha, Huascaran and the Belize reef.

It can then demand action from member states, including limits on carbon dioxide.

Symbolic stick

The organisation would, though, first have to prove that what is happening is undeniably down to global climate change - which, in the Himalayas at least, might be difficult.

"At the moment it's not possible," said Mark New.

"The Himalayas are a climatologically very complex area - there's a lot of variability in the climate system that tends to obscure what might be a climate change signal."

Even if Unesco did command the big emitters to make big cuts, there is nothing in the World Heritage Convention which could force them to comply - rather like Kyoto itself, the convention is long on good intentions, but lacks a big punitive stick.

Even so, a strong judgement would have important symbolic value.

"It's very important that Unesco says that the legal obligation of parties to the World Heritage Convention will not be complied with unless greenhouse gas emissions are cut," said Peter Roderick.

"Because you have an obligation to pass these sites on to future generations; and if we cannot do it for the best parts of the planet, then - what kind of species are we?"

[halva]

Wayne, I asked you if you were ready to disassociate yourself from Phelps. I told you to not ignore, but rather to expose him for what he is, a racist nincompoop and a lying hoaxer.

In other words you suggested I should stop upholding the identity of this thread as a noticeboard for news on climate change and go off on a tangent pursuing Jim Phelps in company with your juvenile delinquent disciples.

What about getting Jim Phelps to confine his contributions here to the subject of climate change? Would that be an acceptable alternative?

That is what I have tried to do, with a certain level of success to judge by most of his last postings.



If you ever smarten up, you might realize that I'm a truer friend than most whom you now hold close. Raynolds, I am the one willing to tell you the truth about what an idiot you've been, and have shown you the way out of it.


Yes, Raynolds, there is an element of truth in what you say here. It is largely because of you that I appreciated how inappropriate it is to try to get Arianna Huffington and her milieu to act in relation to something whose existence they do not recognize rather than supporting them in what they are trying to do about something whose existence they do recognize, namely anthropogenic climate change.

This is why I came to an agreement with you to stop discussing chemtrails and/or geoengineering on this thread.

Having achieved the objective that led you to intervene here, if you had been a tough-minded, cynical but perspicacious scientist such as e.g. a Patrick Minniss (or perhaps J. Schellnhuber) you would have been content with the achievement of this objective, retired from the spotlight and contented yourself with merely monitoring my observance of the agreement, while at the same time continuing your more important tasks elsewhere.

But it seems that you are not such a person and you do not have clear, limited and thus achievable objectives.

You continue to seek opportunities for intervention on this thread.

For what purpose?

To expose the 'anti-Semitism' of Jim Phelps?

I do not need any assistance with this. As you can see, I have largely managed to get Jim to focus on climate change, bringing us the benefit of his scientific expertise on this issue, rather than merely his opinions on the role played by Jews in increasing the suffering of mankind.

To humiliate footsoldier?

You see that footsoldier too does not here talk about chemtrails, but about anthropogenic climate change. Why then do you maintain the unrelentingly offensive style of your mode of addressing her? Are you not only my friend but also her friend, and this is why you speak to her in this way.

Is your new purpose to prove us to us that we are wrong not only about chemtrails but also about anthropogenic climate change?

On the subject of chemtrails, for reasons we don't need to go into, you belong to a majority.

On climate change you are in so much of a minority that not even Tony Blair, your president's closest foreign ally, dares to be associated with your positions.

So if your purpose is to achieve with me on the subject of anthropogenic climate change what you have achieved with me on this thread on the subject of chemtrails, then you are attempting the impossible.

The best, and the safest, thing for you to do would be to retire from visibility for a while. Give people a chance to forget you and recover from their present passionate desire to punish you.

Perhaps you will have an opportunity to make a comeback in the future when there may be a need for your expertise on the subject of chemtrails.

But you will be needed, if you are needed, as a resource person rather than someone with a political profile. And in this respect people like Patrick Minniss will be at an advantage over you, because you are one of those who have done their dirty work and accordingly if anyone is to be scapegoated - thrown to the wolves - it will be you.

[whitemajikman]

The JEWS have ruled long enough and have made a mess of Gods creations. They must be replaced by people who are humans and can follow instruction from God and not change the rules as the Jews do thru time.....

Rantings of an Anti-semite volume #3........

The More you talk the more you seemed frightened......

WMM

[whitemajikman]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4018261.stm

Climate change 'ruining' Everest
By Richard Black
BBC environment correspondent

Campaigners demand urgent assessment of the risks to Everest
A delegation of environmental lawyers is starting a new initiative to force action on global warming.
They are arguing that governments which are members of Unesco - the UN's cultural and scientific agency - are legally bound to protect World Heritage Sites from damage.

Some sites are threatened by climate change, they say - and governments can only protect them by reducing emissions of greenhouse gases.

Legal dossiers concerning three World Heritage Sites will be delivered to Unesco in Paris this week.

"There's a very important mechanism in the World Heritage Convention," said Peter Roderick, director of Climate Justice, the organisation co-ordinating this action.


It's very important that Unesco says that the legal obligation of parties to the World Heritage Convention will not be complied with unless greenhouse gas emissions are cut

Peter Roderick, Climate Justice
"It entitles people to ask the World Heritage Committee to place the site in danger on this list, and thereby ensure it gets more protection," he told BBC News.

"And so we're saying to the World Heritage Committee, 'look, climate change is already affecting these priceless and irreplaceable parts of the planet'."

'Rotten' ice

This campaign involves three "priceless and irreplaceable" places: the Belize Barrier Reef, where, conservationists say, coral is dying as water warms; Huascarán National Park in Peru, and Sagarmatha National Park in the Himalayas.

In these two mountain ranges, the dossiers say, ice is melting away; even the world's highest mountain, Everest, could one day be nothing but rock.


Healthy great star coral (top) and diseased (bottom)
Mark New, a climatologist from Oxford University, UK, who works on the Himalayas, told BBC News: "We know that over the last 30 years, in the eastern Himalayas, snow cover and ice cover have decreased on average by about 30%; so there's 30% less ice and snow than there was 30 years ago."

Relatively little science has been done on the highest mountains, because they're so hostile and inaccessible.

But a documentary to be released this week, made by the independent British film-maker Richard Heap, with support from the United Nations Environment Programme (Unep), shows anecdotal evidence that the Himalayas are changing.

At an altitude of over 4,000m, the crew found a vast glacier lake, which according to their maps, had not been there a few decades before. There had, though, been a glacier.

They also found large tracts of ice which were, in mountaineers' terms, "rotten" - wetter, and less stable than they had been on previous expeditions decades earlier.

Carbon cuts

The Nepalese environmental group Pro Public is leading the Himalayas campaign to Unesco, and it is concerned about more than natural beauty.

Glacier lakes can overflow, sending sudden massive torrents of water down populated river beds.


The Himalayas are a climatologically very complex area - there's a lot of variability in the climate system that tends to obscure what might be a climate change signal

Mark New, Oxford University
In the long term, there are also concerns for south Asia's water users.

Himalayan ice melts into the waters of major rivers such as the Ganges, the Indus, and the Brahmaputra; as the ice disappears, so may substantial portions of south Asia's water supply.

"We are the least developed countries and we don't have many resources," said Prakash Sharma, executive director of Pro Public.

"And also, the Nepalese are not responsible for what's happening there - maybe we might be a little bit responsible, but I think [it is] the global phenomenon of climate change.

"The parties to this convention have agreed to protect the World Heritage Site because it is the unique part of the world, and we need to protect it."

After Unesco receives its three dossiers, it can if it wishes set up inquiries into what is happening in Sagarmatha, Huascaran and the Belize reef.

It can then demand action from member states, including limits on carbon dioxide.

Symbolic stick

The organisation would, though, first have to prove that what is happening is undeniably down to global climate change - which, in the Himalayas at least, might be difficult.

"At the moment it's not possible," said Mark New.

"The Himalayas are a climatologically very complex area - there's a lot of variability in the climate system that tends to obscure what might be a climate change signal."

Even if Unesco did command the big emitters to make big cuts, there is nothing in the World Heritage Convention which could force them to comply - rather like Kyoto itself, the convention is long on good intentions, but lacks a big punitive stick.

Even so, a strong judgement would have important symbolic value.

"It's very important that Unesco says that the legal obligation of parties to the World Heritage Convention will not be complied with unless greenhouse gas emissions are cut," said Peter Roderick.

"Because you have an obligation to pass these sites on to future generations; and if we cannot do it for the best parts of the planet, then - what kind of species are we?"


A species whose planet is in A natural Warming Cycle.............

Accept it .......

Because It isn't going away no matter how much politics or organizational thought is put toward it.........

All you are doing is running from the TRUTH OF THE MATTER..........

Trying to fix a Natural occurrence,which cannot be controlled........

or defeated......

These little media snippets you are posting are nothing more than more political propaganda............which do nothing to solve the problem........

But only serve to try and give humanity a sense of control over our environment.......

And cover-up the fact that we are helpless when it comes to Natural Global Warming......

WMM

[whitemajikman]

Jews worst fear: http://www.hamasonline.com/


Gaicon's worst fear.........

BEING found out ............

[jayreynolds]

In other words you suggested I should stop upholding the identify of this thread as a noticeboard for news on climate change and go off on a tangent pursuing Jim Phelps in company with your juvenile delinquent disciples.

Wayne, the noticeboard gambit was simply your way of changing the subject of this thread from a debate over your claim that "chemtrails" were a form of geoengineering. After getting your dose of whup-ass from me for about six months, you felt you had no choice. As far as "in other words....", don't try to put words I NEVER SAID in my mouth, you slimy bastard. I told you to do the right thing, and stop pretending you're some sort of political whore. You are considered an idiot by your peers, don'cha know? I gave you specific orders to expose Phelps for what he really is.


What about getting Jim Phelps to confine his contributions here to the subject of climate change? Would that be an acceptable alternative?

There you go again with the ostrich imitation, Wayne. You don't get to truth by ignoring anyone or anything. You only get down to the truth by exposing the beast down to it's bare bones, then you have to grind those bones and eat the bread.


You continue to seek opportunities for intervention on this thread.
For what purpose?
To expose the 'anti-Semitism' of Jim Phelps?
I do not need any assistance with this. As you can see, I have largely managed to get Jim to focus on climate change, bringing us the benefit of his scientific expertise on this issue, rather than merely his opinions on the role played by Jews in increasing the suffering of mankind.

There you go yet again, Wayne. You've consistently kept your head in the sand regarding all the bogus crap and racism, acting as if Jim were of some benefit, all the while your peers are snickering behind your back, or just holding their nose as the bullshit rises up around their waists. This has been great fun for me, and merely increases the fount of familiar quotations I can use whenever I need to demonstrate just what a bunch of racist bastards are tolerated, encouraged, even, within your 'big tent'. Still, if you want to bed down with Jim, don't say I didn't warn you........


To humiliate footsoldier?
You see that footsoldier too does not here talk about chemtrails, but about anthropogenic climate change. Why then do you maintain the unrelentingly offensive style of your mode of addressing her? Are you not only my friend but also her friend, and this is why you speak to her in this way.

Wayne, you've already let it slip out before and called her Deborah in a posting here on this forum, so let's stop pretending, everybody knows she is Deborah, the wild bitch from chemtrailcentral. Yes, she's my babe, and one day she'll get a chance to prove it to me. I've got high hopes for her.


Is your new purpose to prove us to us that we are wrong not only about chemtrails but also about anthropogenic climate change? On the subject of chemtrails, for reasons we don't need to go into, you belong to a majority. On climate change you are in so much of a minority that not even Tony Blair, your president's closest foreign ally, dares to be associated with your positions.

I really don't give a rat's ass what that limey believes., doesn't affect me at all. Let him bankrupt his country for all I care.

YOU don't personally have enough knowledge of science to debate climate change with me, Wayne. Games of dueling copy/pastes simply don't interest me. The rest of your post, Wayne Hall the idiot trying to give ME advice, is pretty funny. The botom line is that I'm watching you like ahawk, Wayne, and sticking to you like glue. Whenever I like, I'll open up my can of Texas whup-ass and shoot up whatever town you happen to be in. Bar the doors, hide the wimmen and chil'ren if you like, but I OWN you Wayne, like it or not.

[gaiacomm]

Rantings of an Anti-semite volume #3........

The More you talk the more you seemed frightened......

WMM



Jews will be Jews...same Pigs different farm!

[gaiacomm]

Gaicon's worst fear.........

BEING found out ............


I am still waiting for the results of you and JR and company's diligence! In fact the whole internet is!

[gaiacomm]

Wayne, the noticeboard gambit was simply your way of changing the subject of this thread from a debate over your claim that "chemtrails" were a form of geoengineering. After getting your dose of whup-ass from me for about six months, you felt you had no choice. As far as "in other words....", don't try to put words I NEVER SAID in my mouth, you slimy bastard. I told you to do the right thing, and stop pretending you're some sort of political whore. You are considered an idiot by your peers, don'cha know? I gave you specific orders to expose Phelps for what he really is.



There you go again with the ostrich imitation, Wayne. You don't get to truth by ignoring anyone or anything. You only get down to the truth by exposing the beast down to it's bare bones, then you have to grind those bones and eat the bread.



There you go yet again, Wayne. You've consistently kept your head in the sand regarding all the bogus crap and racism, acting as if Jim were of some benefit, all the while your peers are snickering behind your back, or just holding their nose as the bullshit rises up around their waists. This has been great fun for me, and merely increases the fount of familiar quotations I can use whenever I need to demonstrate just what a bunch of racist bastards are tolerated, encouraged, even, within your 'big tent'. Still, if you want to bed down with Jim, don't say I didn't warn you........



Wayne, you've already let it slip out before and called her Deborah in a posting here on this forum, so let's stop pretending, everybody knows she is Deborah Stark, the wild bitch from chemtrailcentral. Yes, she's my babe, and one day she'll get a chance to prove it to me. I've got high hopes for her.



I really don't give a rat's ass what that limey believes., doesn't affect me at all. Let him bankrupt his country for all I care.

YOU don't personally have enough knowledge of science to debate climate change with me, Wayne. Games of dueling copy/pastes simply don't interest me. The rest of your post, Wayne Hall the idiot trying to give ME advice, is pretty funny. The botom line is that I'm watching you like ahawk, Wayne, and sticking to you like glue. Whenever I like, I'll open up my can of Texas whup-ass and shoot up whatever town you happen to be in. Bar the doors, hide the wimmen and chil'ren if you like, but I OWN you Wayne, like it or not.


Blah....Blah....Blah....

[gaiacomm]

Peace be on you and the mercy of God and His blessings!

We wish to inform you that there is a group of civilians located in a factory that are in very difficult circumstances. The Americans came to them on Sunday and gave them a little dry food. These civilians asked them to turn the electricity back on but instead, the US troops took the electronic cards from the Yugoslavian-made electric power generator that powered the factory. They also asked the Americans to allow them to transport the sick to the Jordanian Hospital, but the officer said that in an emergency, the sick could walk. Since that time, the besieged civilians have seen only a few guards. As of today, they have not been given permission to transport the sick. The civilians did take a car with wounded to the ash-Shihabi area behind the factory, but were met there by gunfire.

What is happening in Fallujah is a war of revenge against the civilians and it is more intense than what you are hearing about on the news. The Americans are now only present in the western neighborhoods that they entered on the first days of the fighting. They did not get into the al-Jawlan, an-Nazal, or ash-Shuhada’ neighborhoods, or the industrial zone. They have blown up or bombarded with shells every mosque they got their hands on. They have done the same with every building and with the apartment blocks. The civilian victims account for more than 90 percent of the total casualties, and they have been buried in mass graves. The American losses and the losses of the so-called “national guard” are many times what they declare. For this reason, they do not allow the news media to enter the city. The (Allawi) national guard has begun to rob houses, taking everything they can carry, and loading it on cars to haul it out of the city. May God suffice for us, for He is the best patron.

Our morale, God be praised, is very high. We have made them taste death in every lane and byway. They only control the main street and the neighborhood near the hospital near the entrance to the city on the road to ar-Ramadi.

Plans for a new offensive have been prepared and have been presented to the Command of the Mujahideen units for approval.

God is Greatest! Victory to the Mujahideen!

[gaiacomm]

Iraq In Brief Tuesday: Americans Fend Off Attacks Across The Country
Nov 17, 2004
By Omar al-Faris, JUS

While fighting in Fallujah has been less intense in some parts and non-existent in others as a new offensive is being formulated, the American occupiers are being forced to fend off constant attacks in many cities across Iraq. A barrage of rockets fell on American bases in Saddam and Al-Muthanna airports and Eagles Camp yesterday. Attacks in Abu Ghraib, Al-Dawrah, Al Souwairah, Al-Radwaniah, and Al-Latifiah cost American occupation forces 36 lives, a Cobra, an Apache, a Reconnaissance plane, and a number of tanks and armored vehicles.

Here are details of some of the attacks that took place in brief:

10 Killed, Reconnaissance Plane Downed, Supply Trailer And Bradley Destroyed In Al-Dawrah

Iraqi “aircraft hunters”, as they are called, shot down a reconnaissance plane at 9:00 Tuesday morning in Arab Ghabour area. Another group of fighters detonated a road side bomb as a jeep was passing by at 12:00 noon. The jeep was destroyed and 3 Americans were killed. A Bradley armored vehicle came under rocket attack in Hour Raghab area at 13:30. The Bradley was destroyed and 5 Americans were killed in that attack. Meanwhile, a supply trailer was hit and destroyed in the same area. 2 Americans including a female soldier, were reported killed.

Grad And Katiosha Rockets Rained On Saddam, Muthanna Airports And Eagle Camp

Saddam airport was attacked twice yesterday with Grad and Katiosha rockets. The first attack came at 07:00 and the second came an hour later. Muthanna airport was also attack twice around the same time.
Eagles Camp was also hit with rockets and 82 mm mortar attacks three times yesterday. One of the rockets that hit the camp caused a very powerful explosion. No other details are yet available.

Cobra Shot Down, 12 Americans Killed In Abu Ghraib Area

12 Americans were killed and a Cobra aircraft was shot down in three different attacks in areas around Abu Ghraib, which continues to be a hotspot. An attack on two supply trailers at 07:00 Tuesday morning left 3 Americans dead and the trailers completely destroyed. A second attack took place at 12:15 when a jeep was hit and 3 Americans were reported killed. Meanwhile, Muajhideen employed C5K rockets to bring down a Cobra and four crewmembers were reported killed in this attack. A Bradley vehicle was attacked and destroyed in the same area and two 2 Americans were said to be killed in this attack..

Apache Downed In Al-Latifiah

Mujahideen in Al-Latifiah fired 2 C5K rockets at an Apache at 8:00 yesterday morning that landed a direct hit on the aircraft bringing it down in a ball of flames. The number of Americans on board of the aircraft and the casualties is not known at the present time.

Six Killed In Attacks In Al-Radwaniah

Mujahideen attacked an American convoy in Al-Radwaniah yesterday morning. Six Americans were reported killed and 2 Bradley vehicles were destroyed. Two Mujahideen were hit by fire from another helicopter as they were leaving the scene in a white, 93 Hyundai vehicle. The vehicle was destroyed and the two Mujahideen were martyred.

[gaiacomm]

Resistance Holds Majority Of Fallujah; “Intifada Growing Too Big To Control"
Nov 17, 2004
By Muhammad Abu Nasr, Free Arab Voice; Edited by JUS

A leader of one of the Resistance organizations in Fallujah confirmed to the Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent in the city that many of the Resistance organizations in the city have resolved to “disappear from view” in order to wage a war of attrition against the US forces inside and outside the city.

The Mujahideen leader described to the Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent the tragic situation in the demolished city “which has become unbearable due to the large number of dead Iraqi civilians in the streets whose bodies are being eaten by dogs.”

He said that bodies of children shot dead by American snipers yesterday or the day before as they tried to cross the street, were being devoured by the dogs. Neither the families nor the fighters are able to retrieve the remains of their mangled bodies because of the American snipers are still perched atop high buildings. The Commander described whole buildings that were totally burned with everyone inside.

“All such things,” he said, “have compelled some of the Resistance organizations to incline to taking up the method of war of attrition.”

The Commander said that this decision was not unanimous among the Resistance organizations, some of which have opted to reduce the pressure they exert from within the heart of Fallujah, in view of the determination of the American forces to destroy the city and commit a wholesale slaughter of the inhabitants. Other Resistance organizations have resolved to continue fighting at the same pace as before.

The Commander noted the contrast between the determination of the American forces to kill children, women, doctors, nurses, and civilians and the silence of the whole world in the face of such atrocities. No pressure has been brought to bear to save the civilians suspended in the city despite the unparalleled success that the Resistance has had in waging a street war against the invaders.

Some of the Resistance organizations in Fallujah have chosen what has been called “the option of our brothers in Samarra’” who sought to reduce the pressure on their main support, after God, that is, the civilian population, by withdrawing to the suburbs of the city where the ferocity of their Resistance operations produced the first instance of mutiny and rejection of orders within the ranks of the American troops in Iraq.

The Commander repeated that this was not a unanimous decision, however, and he noted that there were many Resistance organizations, “that I don’t know anything about,” as he put it.

The Commander concluded by saying with a confident smile, “Iraq will see what we are bringing about with our own hands . . . the victory of all of Iraq; an intifada that has grown too big to control.”

The Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent reported that there is a leadership of major Mujahid organizations in Fallujah that is still pursuing the fight as before. One of them is the group of Shaykh ‘Abdallah al-Janabi, the Chairman of the Consultative Council of the Mujahideen of Fallujah. According to Quds Press, Shaykh al-Janabi spoke Tuesday to a gathering of Resistance fighters defending the city, saying “the Mujahideen control firmly and completely 60 percent of the territory of Fallujah. The rest of the city is a battle zone where fighting is going on in fits and starts between the American aggressor forces and the Resistance that is defending Fallujah.”

Shaykh al-Janabi said that Fallujah Mujahideen had used a captured American tank in their assault on US military positions and the operation accomplished its goals completely. He said that the Iraqi flag had been raise in official ceremonies over 12 positions regarded as battle zones.

The Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent in Fallujah commented that these positions of the different Resistance organizations in the city were not in fact contradictory or mutually exclusive. Past experience has shown, he wrote, that every Resistance group helps out the others despite their differences as to their ultimate aims. A proof of that can be seen in the meeting held last Tuesday that took place under a unified leadership.

The source of differences among the Fallujah Resistance organizations is the issue of the unarmed civilian population and what to do regarding them. Some organizations believe the best course is to continue to resist, particularly since other fronts of struggle against the US forces have now been opened elsewhere. But other groups believe that the civilians cannot bear the pressure of the siege any longer. Another source of difference of opinion among the Resistance groups is that some believe it is necessary to open another big front to confront the aggressors on their rear lines, while other Resistance organizations fear that this could result in the fall of the city.

Quds Press reported that extremely fierce fighting was underway on Tuesday on the edges of the al-Jawlan neighborhood of Fallujah. Powerful explosions shook the area and could be heard throughout the city, though their exact cause was difficult to determine. Since early Tuesday morning US military aircraft prowled the skies over the city, strafing and rocketing what they regard as targets in numerous neighborhoods throughout the city. US snipers are deployed on the roofs of many tall buildings that over look the city, and they fire on anything that moves in the streets below.

Resistance Pounds US Marines On Outskirts Of Fallujah

Iraqi Resistance forces carried out an intense rocket attack on concentrations of US Marines to the north, west, and south of Fallujah. The correspondent of Mafkarat al-Islam in the city reported that more than 31 powerful Tariq and Grad rockets were fired at the American troop concentrations in three areas outside the city.

The correspondent wrote that the rockets fired into the American Marines to the north of the city were launched from a branch of the Tigris River. The rockets that struck the US troop concentrations to the west and south of the city were launched from the direction of al-‘Amiriyah and some from mobile launchers mounted on vehicles.

American Troops Use Women And Children As Human Shields

A field Commander for the Mujahideen disclosed to a correspondent for Mafkarat al-Islam in Fallujah what he called the “tragedy of the street fighting” in reference to the way that the invading American troops were using Iraqi women and children as human shields.

The Commander said that the tragedy began last Tuesday and that before that, he had never seen such things, when the Americans used used women and children to shield their tanks. The Commander commented: “this state is living through a type of savagery that history has never known before.”

The field Commander said “we could hear the cries of the children and the women’s calls for help from atop a column of tanks that was driving along ath-Tharthar street last Tuesday. Some of our fighters closed their eyes in pain and wept at the sight.”

Statement From The Iraqi Baath Party On The Battle Of Fallujah

The Department for Political information and publication of the Iraqi branch of the Arab Socialist Baath Party issued a statement on Tuesday in which it said that the current Anglo-British offensive against Fallujah is a “premeditated criminal act of revenge against the heroic Fallujah in which the official Arab regimes and the Arab news media owned by the wardens of the oil fields of the occupation forces are taking part in according to their distribution of roles that have been imposed or agreed upon beforehand.”

Nevertheless, the heroic battle at Fallujah, the Baath Party said, would be an “example to be followed in Iraq, first, and then in Palestine.”

The Baath statement said that in the Battle of Fallujah, fighters from of the Baath Party were participating in the fighting with units of the Forces of Resistance and Liberation, under the banner of Resistance and Jihad, and that in the military expertise of the Army of Iraq and the Republican Guard were being used in “a continuous and on-going battle, one that is not isolated.”

The US and the (Allawi) puppet regime in Baghdad hoped in vain to get political mileage out of Fallujah in the up-coming meeting of regional regimes with the United States in Sharm ash-Shaykh next week however the continuous and comprehensive battle will lead instead to the exhaustion of the aggressor and the downfall of the puppet regime. It exposes the strategic disability of the occupation and will eventually be reflected inside the US with respect to the mobilization of forces.

The battle will compel the US to make difficult and harsh demands on Arab regimes, the Baath Party statement predicted, for the future of the political game it is playing in Iraq depends on the security of its puppet regime, and that regime has no security.

As the assault on Fallujah is a crime, the Resistance to it has national and human legitimacy that demands that the Resistance proceed untrammeled and without restriction until the occupation has been routed out and the puppet authority destroyed, the statement said.

[gaiacomm]

Hassan's Alleged Death: A Close Encounter Of The Intelligence Kind
Nov 17, 2004
By Bruce Kennedy, JUS

Once again, when the Americans are in a hot spot, they turn to the Muslims as the scapegoat.

Just like the release of the Abu Ghraib photos, after many months of reported abuses, came just as US forces lost their shirts (and soldiers) in the first battle of Fallujah, now we have the alleged Hassan murder and the release of footage of US soldiers killing a wounded, defenseless Iraqis inside a mosque in Fallujah in an effort to divert attention from the massacre of civilians in Fallujah and the large number of American lives its cost so far and justify long term deployment throughout the war-torn country.

Margaret Hassan, the 59 year old director of CARE international in Iraq was taken captive on her way to work in Baghdad on October 19, 2004 in a picture perfect operation. A videotape issued Oct. 22 and aired by Al-Jazeera showed her pleading for Britain to withdraw troops from Iraq.

As JUS reported at the time, based on information from reliable sources close to the Mujahideen in Iraq, the kidnapping of Margaret Hassan was an operation concocted by British agents inside the country, in an effort to divert attention away from the British troop deployment into Latifiyah. – a deployment that was required so that the Americans could strike Fallujah. The deployment of British troops at the time caused a great deal of commotion but was a deployment that Tony Blair was not at liberty to refuse on orders from his US masters.

Now, just as the public becomes outraged once again with the brutality of this escalating war, Margaret is allegedly killed by the nasty Muslims. In a statement released by the British Foreign Office, not Hassan's family directly, relatives now say they believe "that Margaret is probably gone".

"We had kept hoping for as long as we could, but we now have to accept that Margaret has probably gone, and at last her suffering has ended," said a statement from Hassan's four brothers and sisters.

"Those who are guilty of this atrocious act, and those who support them, have no excuses."

Jihad Ballout, a spokesman for the Al-Jazeera TV network, told The Associated Press they received a videotape a few days ago. It shows a militant firing a pistol into the head of a blindfolded woman wearing an orange jumpsuit. "She was presumed to be Mrs. Hassan,'' Ballout told The Associated Press. Presumption indeed.

The network said it was planning to show British officials the videotape but said they would not be airing the video to the public.

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said that based on their experts' examination of the video, "we have today had to inform Margaret Hassan's family that, sadly, we now believe that she has probably been murdered, although we cannot conclude this with complete certainty.''

No body has been found and no group has claimed responsibility.

Sunni clerics who have been heading up the Resistance in Fallujah has said previously that they were not responsible Hassan’s kidnapping and at the time called for her release. Of the 150 foreigners captured by Mujahideen, few have been women with most being released and none have been killed, unlike the males who have been swiftly executed. Women are enjoined with special privileges in Islam and the Mujahideen are required to protect them under Shariah laws of Islam.

Iraq’s Mujahideen exposed the British insurance policy at the time of Hassan’s capture and has denied any JTJ involvement in the kidnapping. The kidnapping and now alleged murder of Hassan, who selflessly dedicated years of her life to help impoverished Iraqis, will send the message that the Iraqi Resistance is comprised of monsters and serial murderers. This is exactly the desired outcome of the release of news of Hassan’s alleged death at this critical juncture, when reports of bodies of dead women and children being eating by dogs in the streets of Fallujah and US soldiers killing unarmed and wounded civilians are surfacing.

While more bombs are dropping in the Sunni heartland, the logic to this latest public relations stunt is to justify that there can be no response other than “cleansing” the Sunnis from the face of the earth considering they are capable of such vial acts.

If her death is confirmed, Hassan would be the first woman to be killed by kidnappers in Iraq in a close encounter of the intelligence kind. Rest assured, her captors are not Muslim.

[halva]

This is the kind of article that is published nowadays even by lowest-common-denominator mass outlets like Microsoft News.
WH

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6502368/

Species disappearing at an alarming rate, report says

Watchdog releases annual 'Red List,' warns extent is underestimated

The Seychelles scops-owl, unique to the Indian Ocean country, is among the endangered species listed as in the 2004 "Red List." Scientists note that in its case there are some positive signs of recovery.

MSNBC

Updated: 2:06 p.m. ET Nov. 17, 2004The world's biodiversity is declining at an unprecedented rate, the recognized global watchdog on endangered species said Wednesday in announcing its annual list of most vulnerable wildlife.

At least 15 species have gone extinct in the past 20 years and another 12 survive only in captivity, the World Conservation Union said in a report that accompanies its annual "Red List."

Current extinction rates are at least 100 to 1,000 times higher than natural rates found in the fossil record, the report stated. The data were released as 3,500 delegates gathered in Bangkok, Thailand, for a World Conservation Union conference focused on halting what's deemed an extinction crisis.

The report concluded that humans are the main reason for most species' declines. "Habitat destruction and degradation are the leading threats," the union said in a statement, "but other significant pressures include over-exploitation (for food, pets, and medicine), introduced species, pollution, and disease. Climate change is increasingly recognized as a serious threat."

3,330 more threatened species

The union, which is a coalition of leading conservation groups, called the report "the most comprehensive evaluation ever undertaken of the status of the world's biodiversity." Among the findings:

15,589 species (7,266 animal species and 8,323 plant and lichen species) are now considered at risk of extinction — an increase of 3,330 species since the 2003 Red List. The increase is largely due to the fact that scientists have finally been able to assess all of the world's amphibians.

One in three amphibians and almost half of turtles and tortoises are known to be threatened with extinction, along with one in four mammals, one in five sharks and rays, and one in eight birds.

The numbers of threatened species are increasing across almost all major taxonomic groups.

The Verreaux's sifaka lemur, unique to Madagascar, is listed as threatened in the 2004 "Red List" because its forest habitat is being cleared for timber and firewood, and hunters have reduced its numbers.

Craig Hilton-Taylor, who managed the Red List compilation, noted that "although 15,589 species are known to be threatened with extinction, this greatly underestimates the true number, as only a fraction of known species have been assessed.

"There is still much to be discovered about key species-rich habitats," he said in a statement, "such as tropical forests, marine and freshwater systems, or particular groups, such as invertebrates, plants and fungi, which make up the majority of biodiversity."

Species that fared worse than in 2003 are the now-extinct St Helena olive, the Hawaiian crow, which has become extinct in the wild, and the Balearic shearwater and giant Hispaniolan galliwasp lizard, which are now both critically endangered.

Where threats are concentrated

The report found that threatened species are often concentrated in areas that are poor and densely populated, such as much of Asia and Africa.

The union urged better off nations and international groups to step forward to help in those areas.

"The good news is that we still have time to save the majority of (the species), if the conservation community, governments, other organizations, and concerned individuals commit a sufficient amount of resources immediately," said Russ Mittermeier, the head of Conservation International and chairman of the World Conservation Union's primate group.

[whitemajikman]

AND HERE IS WHY HALVA(WAYNE HALL ) DOES NOT CURRENTLY RESIDE IN HIS NATIVE COUNTRY OF AUSTRALIA,AMND WHY THEY KICKED HIS ASS OUT......

Nazi Greens an enemy of democracy, government decrees
By Margo Kingston
October 29, 2003

"I intend to continue to call to the attention of the Australian people the extremely alarming, frightening similarities between the methods employed by contemporary green politics and the methods and the values of the Nazis." Liberal Senator George Brandis launches a government campaign to destroy the Greens as a political force.

George Brandis is a Queensland Liberal Senator. The Government chose him to conduct the tactics for and lead a front-on Parliamentary attack on the Greens which asserted that the party was an enemy of the State. The speech responds to a Greens' motion for an inquiry into procedures for joint sittings of Parliament. Senator Brandis's political biography is at the end of his speech.

***

28 October, 2003; Senate Hansard

Senator BRANDIS (Queensland) (3.59 p.m.)

I move:

Omit all words after That, substitute the Senate:

(a) condemns the behaviour of Senators Brown and Nettle during the address to the joint meeting by the President of the United States of America (the Honourable George W Bush) on 23 October 2003, in defying the order of the chair and the proper direction of the Serjeant-at-Arms;

(b) considers the behaviour of Senators Brown and Nettle to have been grossly inappropriate, discourteous, lacking in good manners and reflecting poorly upon the Parliament and Australia; and

(c) in light of the behaviour of Senators Brown and Nettle, asks the Procedure Committee to consider what steps should be taken to ensure the proper conduct of joint meetings to welcome foreign heads of state.

Copies of the amendment have been circulated at least to party leaders and have been given to the attendants.

When the people of Australia last Thursday saw the antics and the predetermined sideshow of Senator Brown and Senator Nettle during the course of President Bush's address, I think most people - I dare say more than 90 per cent of the people of this country - thought that Senator Brown and Senator Nettle were responsible for an insult to the President of the United States and to the American people. Of course they were, but they were guilty of much more than that: they were guilty of a contempt of this parliament.

In the name of free speech, Senator Brown and Senator Nettle sought to deny the freedom of speech of the invited guest of the Australian people - sought to prevent the Australian people hearing what President Bush had to say. In the name of parliamentary democracy, Senator Brown and Senator Nettle sought to suborn parliamentary democracy.

And now they come to this chamber, bleating, awash with crocodile tears and pretending to be the custodians of free speech - pretending to be the custodians of this institution. Their own conduct last Thursday in belittling this institution - in denying the freedom of a foreign head of state to be heard by the Australian people and by the representatives of the Australian people - demonstrates the hypocrisy of their position.

Let us remember what it was in this premeditated, preordained and orchestrated stunt that Senator Brown and Senator Nettle contrived to do. First of all, they interrupted the President three times. Then, in response to a lawful direction by the Presiding Officer, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, operating under standing orders that this chamber had agreed to, they refused to abide the lawful direction of the Speaker of the House of Representatives. Thirdly, when the Speaker of the House of Representatives lawfully and properly directed the Serjeant-at-Arms to escort Senator Brown and then Senator Nettle from the chamber, they refused to obey that lawful direction. So it is not merely a question of bad manners, Senator Brown. That is offensive enough, but it is the least of your offences. It is the premeditated contempt shown by you and your colleague Senator Nettle for the procedures and the standing orders of this chamber, as agreed to by this chamber; the defiance of its presiding officer; and the defiance of its officer the Serjeant-at-Arms. To this day, you have not had the decency to apologiseto purge your contempt of this parliament.

I think until fairly recently the Australian people tended to divide the Greens party into two camps. There seemed to be two points of view about the Greens party. There were those Australians who thought that the Greens were a collection of well-meaning oddballs - and there was certainly a degree of evidence to give comfort to that view.

There were others, I think, in Australia who regarded the Greens not so much as well-meaning oddballs but as a mob of scruffy ratbags. There was certainly plenty of evidence to give comfort to that point of view. But, as their behaviour last Thursday demonstrated, the Greens are not well-meaning oddballs and they are not scruffy ratbags; they are something much more sinister than that. They have introduced into our democracy - one of the world's greatest and most successful democracies - a new and sinister element. The journalist Andrew Bolt, in a very perceptive piece published in the -

Senator Brown: Mr Acting Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. I have been listening carefully to what the member has said, but I would ask you to be careful to defend the standing order which states that he shall not reflect on a member and to be very careful about the quotation he is about to make, whether or not it is made.

The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Lightfoot): Which standing order are you basing your point of order on, Senator Brown?

Senator Brown: The standing order which says that he shall not reflect on a member.

The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT There is no point of order.

In a very perceptive column syndicated throughout Australia in last Sunday's newspapers, the journalist Andrew Bolt pointed out the striking and very dangerous antecedents of the fanaticism of contemporary green politics in this country, and its commonality and common source with the views that inspired the Nazis in prewar Germany.

In an earlier piece, published in July, Mr Bolt directed our attention to two studies that have been written of contemporary green politics - and I have read them in the last day or so; they make chilling reading - which go all the way to explaining the modus operandi of the Greens last Thursday. The first, by an American scholar, Professor Raymond Dominick, examined the common source of the fanaticism of contemporary greens with the nature worship practised by the Nazis in the 1930s. The book is called The Environmental Movement in Germany.


the rest of this article is here

http://www.smh.com.au/cgi-bin/commo...7233222840.html

[whitemajikman]

AND HERE IS LANCE HAUBRICK a.k.a GAIACOMM

[gaiacomm]

AND HERE IS LANCE HAUBRICK a.k.a GAIACOMM







Now that is not the photo of Dr. Judah Ben-Hur/Gaiacomm..that is of Lance Haubrick!

Find a photo of the DR. and you will have debunked JR and company! Also send that photo to gaiacomm international for ID as well or even call...their website is public knowledge...but that is too easy and would spoil the fun!

[foot_soldier]

November 16, 2004
Steel giant may be moved out of Beijing
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/16/content_392044.htm

Beijing is still considering moving the Shougang Group -- an iron and steel giant -- out of the city as part of its efforts to fight pollution.

Vice-Mayor Ji Lin made the remarks during an inspection of the factory's boiler emission on Monday, local media reported.

Ji, along with Wang Jirong, vice-director of the State Environmental Protection Administration, looked at the city's sky from a high-rise building on Monday morning and found the industrial base in Beijing's western suburbs, where Shougang Group is located, bristling with chimneys belching out thick clouds of smoke.

The industrial base is the largest polluter in Beijing and local residents have long suffered from dirty air, said officials with the Beijing Municipal Environmental Protection Bureau.

"The Shougang Group must be moved out of Beijing. The sooner the better. If not, the cost of pollution treatments will be much higher," said Wang.

"We should not take care of the interests of some heavy polluters at the expense of the overall health of more than 10 million people living in Beijing," Wang said.

The comments are the commitment to solving the long-debated topic of the relocation of the Shougang Group.

As early as 1999, a dozen deputies to Beijing's Municipal People's Congress, the city's top legislative body, said the Shougang Group must be moved because it heavily pollutes both air and groundwater.

Late last year, Lu Hao, another vice-mayor of Beijing, said the Shougang Group would be entirely moved out by 2012.

Lu's remarks were the first official statement on the subject.

However, top leaders of Shougang -- also know as Capital Iron and Steel -- expressed three major concerns over any proposed moves.

The first one is the huge cost of the removal which is estimated at 40 billion yuan (US$4.8 billion). The second is that Shougang's leaving would take away 2 billion yuan (US$240 million) of fiscal revenue each year, and would impact the city's industries. And the third one is unemployment, since the removal would cause nearly 100,000 employees to become jobless.

Although the relocation is a complicated task, Shougang has gradually moved part of its plants out of Beijing.

The construction of a steel production base of Shougang, in neighbouring Hebei Province, with an annual production of 2 million tons, was finished in October.

And Shougang also cut its annual production to 6 million tons from 8 million tons last year and plans to cut a further 2 million tons before 2008 in a bid to reduce emission.

Air pollution, which often shrouds Beijing in a soupy smog, is a key concern for decision makers.

[stuart_allsop]

The JEWS have ruled long enough and have made a mess of Gods creations. They must be replaced by people who are humans and can follow instruction from God and not change the rules as the Jews do thru time.....And I suppose that you know better than God does? That God needs your help in deciding whether or not the Jews should be allowed to live?

I'm impressed, Judah! How on Earth did God ever manage to get along without you, for all these millenia? Amazing!

[stuart_allsop]

Jews will be Jews...same Pigs different farm!So which farm are you from, Judah?

[gaiacomm]

And I suppose that you know better than God does? (NO I DON'T, ONLY GOD KNOWS)That God needs your help in deciding whether or not the Jews should be allowed to live?(YES, MEN CAN MURDER OTHER MEN AND JEWS ARE NO EXCEPTIONS)

I'm impressed, Judah! How on Earth did God ever manage to get along without you, for all these millenia? Amazing!

GOD NEEDS US ALL TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER!

[gaiacomm]

So which farm are you from, Judah?

From a place that should have been left alone to finish its work!

http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/html/eng/start/index.php

[gaiacomm]

The Jews are just Jews and need to understand that they are no different than Pigs on a farm...and sometimes they act as if they are the ONES! But their god has forsaken them for the murder of his son!

[gaiacomm]

Jews were also for sale and by rights should have been ,right along with everyone else that were slaves at that time and now!

Memo from Hitlers office....1942:

Memo



I have asked the Führer about letting Jews go in return for foreign currency. He has given me full power to approve such cases if they really do bring in foreign currency from abroad on a notable scale.



Field Headquarters,
December 10, 1942 RF/V.

[gaiacomm]

Kill Jews – It Works
by David Wilder
January 29, 2004

Why do Arabs continue to kill Jews?

It is clear that the suicide bomber who exploded in a Jerusalem bus this morning, murdering 10 Jews (as of this writing) and wounding about 50, was acting out the goodness of his heart.

While the 'palestinian policeman' from Bethlehem, who belonged to the Al-Aktza Brigades of Arafat's Fatah, was blowing the #19 bus to smithereens next to Ariel Sharon's official residence, Israel was in the process of implementing the 'prisoner exchange' with Hezbollah. Israel released, not only 400 live terrorists, but also 60 bodies of dead Hezbollah warrior-terrorists.

Today's terrorist attack was an attempt to even the equation. After all, we were only getting three bodies back. So the terrorist exploded in an effort to even the score. Ten killed, fifty wounded, equals 60. Plus three soldiers' bodies – Israel comes out on top.

That's one reason to kill Jews. But of course, there are more.

Two days ago, the Judea, Samaria and Gaza (Yesha) Council held a unique press conference, during which they revealed the contents of 'secret discussions' between Yesha leaders and the highest levels of the Prime Minister's Office. These leaders met, one at a time, with Dov Weisglass, Sharon's Chief of Staff. He offered them a seemingly tantalizing deal. The Sharon government would 'disengage' from seven Yesha communities sometime in the near future. Those communities named were: Kfar Darom, Netzarim and Morag, in Gush Katif, Kadim and Ganim in northern Shomron, and Sa-Naur and Homesh in central Shomron. In return, Sharon promised to refrain from any other 'disengagements' until a final agreement with the Palestinian Authority terrorists. In addition, he promised to try and 'save' the rest of Gush Katif in Gaza.

At the press conference, the Yesha Council vehemently rejected this 'deal,' calling it a disgrace. But that's not really what is important. What is important is that the 'deal' was offered in the first place. Our Arab enemies could view this planned eviction of Jews from at least two different perspectives. On the one hand, they must have been disappointed at the small number of communities Sharon was offering to destroy. But, on the other hand, the very fact that Ariel Sharon, the great warmonger, the brain behind Sabra and Shatila, would even consider deleting any Jewish settlements in Israel must have been seen as a great victory.

Their analysis must have been short and sweet. The reason behind Sharon's proffered 'disengagement' was simple. The above-named communities and their surrounding vicinities are all prime targets of Arab terror attacks. Numerous security forces are needed to provide them with even semi-adequate protection. Sharon himself said, not too long ago, to a group of Bedouins, that he hopes the time will soon come when Israeli troops will no longer have to serve in Gaza. Why? Because it's too violent there.

The terrorists may not all be university graduates, but simple arithmetic isn't beyond their capabilities. They know that one plus one equals two. Kill Jews plus kill more Jews equals capitulation-withdrawal-'disengagement.' One need not be a genius to figure it out.

Actually, today's prisoner exchange is a case in point. In truth, were I in a decision-making position, I really don't know what I would do. It is similar to a King Solomon trial (when having to decide which woman the baby belonged to, Solomon commanded that it be cut in half). But the absurdity of the deal screams out to the heavens. Elchanan Tennenbaum, an Israeli colonel in the reserves, whose kidnapping is cloaked in mystery and question marks, was freed. In addition, Israel received the bodies of three soldiers who were killed by Hezbollah on the Lebanese border, with the original purpose being kidnapping them. Hezbollah terror leader Hassan Nasrallah is already on record proclaiming that he will kidnap more Israeli soldiers in order to use them to liberate other captured terrorists.

In return, Israel was forced to release four hundred (!) live terrorists. Four hundred, most of whom will undoubtedly return to their favorite pastime – and we all know what that is. (See: Jibril, Achmad, "Victory Over Israel - How I Added One Thousand Soldiers to My Private Terror Force".)

It seems that the nucleus of the deal was not Tennenbaum or the dead soldiers. Rather, it is the missing aviator Ron Arad. Israel has been promised, at the very least, information concerning Arad, and particularly, whether or not he is still alive. For that information, we will release another Arab murderer. The price to obtain Arad, living or dead, will be astronomical.

In other words, Israel, pushed into a corner, is continuing to acquiesce. Our enemies take the offensive, we take the defensive; they are victorious and we lose.

One of rules of Israeli negotiations centers on the principle that states that terrorists 'with blood on their hands', i.e., who have murdered Israelis, will not be released from jail. Despite this code of conduct, several Arabs with 'blood on their hands' were today set free.

And ten others, with blood on their hands and faces, legs and arms, all over their bodies, were also liberated – not from Israel, but from this world, for eternity.

Hamas spokesman Abdel Aziz Rantissi said after today's bombing, "It's not important who carried out this operation. The only thing that is very important is that we are resisting occupiers who came... to occupy our land and to kill our people."

Rantissi isn't talking about Gaza – he's talking about Jerusalem and Hebron, Tel Aviv and Haifa, Eilat and Kiryat Shemona. It's only logical. After all, Sharon is folding. In the midst of a war, he's offering to 'disengage' from Israeli communities, he's offering a 'palestinian state', he's releasing hundreds of terrorists from Israeli jails, in return for… killing Jews.

So, in reality, why not kill Jews? It works!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi Human Initiated Global Warming Activists,

I sent the heads up to Jeff Rense and he is picking up the Global Warming articles, which means they get read by around 100,000 people a day when they go up there.

That outweighs this little thread by one huge factor. Massive broadcasting begins to present the truth.

The Satan syndicate is sure to be upset, so plug your ears from their hate words.

IMHO,
is


http://www.smh.com.au/news/Environment/Nearly-16000-
species-threatened-with-extinction
/2004/11/17/1100574544344.html?oneclick=true


Nearly 16,000 Species
Threatened With Extinction
The Sydney Morning Herald
11-17-4

(AFP) -- Nearly 16,000 of the world's plant and animal species face extinction largely because of the destructive behaviour of mankind, says a major new environmental report.

Over-exploitation, climate change and habitat destruction are to blame for a crisis that has wiped out at least 27 species from the wild over the last two decades, according to the World Conservation Union's (IUCN) red list of threatened species.

The report says more than 7000 animal species are threatened with extinction.

They include 32 per cent of amphibians, 42 per cent of turtles and tortoises, 23 per cent of mammals and 12 per cent of birds.

Among the casualties since last year's report, the IUCN confirms the Hawaiian thrush has gone the way of the dodo with no sighting of the bird for 15 years.

Costa Rica's golden toad has also been listed as extinct largely through climate change, pollution and disease.

More than 8000 plants are listed as threatened with the St Helena olive tree the latest to be declared extinct after the last remaining seedling withered and died in November last year without any seeds kept.

"Every time we lose a species we break a life chain which has evolved over 3.5 billion years," said IUCN chief scientist Jeffrey McNeely.

Less is known about marine species but the report says early signs showed it was equally serious with fishermen overexploiting the seas to the point of extinction for many species.

The humphead wrasse is listed as endangered after its numbers declined by at least 50 per cent over the last 30 years after being heavily fished in South-East Asia for restaurants and the destruction of its coral reef habitat.

"Although 15,589 species are known to be threatened with extinction, this greatly underestimates the true number as only a fraction of known species have been assessed," said Craig Hilton-Taylor, who helped in compiling the report.

Because of the intervention of humans, the current extinction rate is estimated to be up to 1000 times the expected natural one. Since AD1500, 784 extinctions have been recorded, according to the IUCN.

"The current extinction phenomenon is one for which a single species, ours, appears to be almost wholly responsible," it said.

Indonesia, India, Brazil and China are among the countries with the most threatened mammals and birds. Plant species are declining rapidly in South and Central America, Central and West Africa and South-East Asia.

Last year's report said 12,259 species were threatened but officials said the increase in threatened species of more than 3300 was largely down to improved and expanded research work.

The release of the report is the latest in a series of gloomy assessments over the state of the world's plants and animals.

A three-year study published last month said it was feared more than 100 amphibian species had disappeared since 1980 largely because of pollution and global warming. Scientists feared hundreds more would become extinct in coming decades.

Amphibians, with their highly permeable skins, are particularly sensitive to changes to freshwater and air quality and are considered one of nature's best indicators of environmental health.

The IUCN said half of the world's wetlands had been destroyed in the past century and more than a quarter of the world's coral reefs had also been lost.

However, the report said there were bright points with some species recovering after concerted conservation campaigns and others once thought extinct had been rediscovered.

The New Zealand storm petrel was presumed extinct but there were two separate sightings last year and further ones this year.

The European otter has moved out of the threatened categories amid signs of a recovery in western Europe and the former USSR.

The report was released to coincide with the opening of the World Conservation Congress in Bangkok. More than 5000 people including activists and more than 50 environment ministers are expected to attend over nine days.

The congress, bringing together scientists and experts from 181 countries, will debate the escalating extinction crisis and form a conservation blueprint for the next four years.

[gaiacomm]

Hi Human Initiated Global Warming Activists,

I sent the heads up to Jeff Rense and he is picking up the Global Warming articles, which means they get read by around 100,000 people a day when they go up there.

That outweighs this little thread by one huge factor. Massive broadcasting begins to present the truth.

The Satan syndicate is sure to be upset, so plug your ears from their hate words.

IMHO,
is


http://www.smh.com.au/news/Environment/Nearly-16000-
species-threatened-with-extinction
/2004/11/17/1100574544344.html?oneclick=true


Nearly 16,000 Species
Threatened With Extinction
The Sydney Morning Herald
11-17-4

(AFP) -- Nearly 16,000 of the world's plant and animal species face extinction largely because of the destructive behaviour of mankind, says a major new environmental report.

Over-exploitation, climate change and habitat destruction are to blame for a crisis that has wiped out at least 27 species from the wild over the last two decades, according to the World Conservation Union's (IUCN) red list of threatened species.

The report says more than 7000 animal species are threatened with extinction.

They include 32 per cent of amphibians, 42 per cent of turtles and tortoises, 23 per cent of mammals and 12 per cent of birds.

Among the casualties since last year's report, the IUCN confirms the Hawaiian thrush has gone the way of the dodo with no sighting of the bird for 15 years.

Costa Rica's golden toad has also been listed as extinct largely through climate change, pollution and disease.

More than 8000 plants are listed as threatened with the St Helena olive tree the latest to be declared extinct after the last remaining seedling withered and died in November last year without any seeds kept.

"Every time we lose a species we break a life chain which has evolved over 3.5 billion years," said IUCN chief scientist Jeffrey McNeely.

Less is known about marine species but the report says early signs showed it was equally serious with fishermen overexploiting the seas to the point of extinction for many species.

The humphead wrasse is listed as endangered after its numbers declined by at least 50 per cent over the last 30 years after being heavily fished in South-East Asia for restaurants and the destruction of its coral reef habitat.

"Although 15,589 species are known to be threatened with extinction, this greatly underestimates the true number as only a fraction of known species have been assessed," said Craig Hilton-Taylor, who helped in compiling the report.

Because of the intervention of humans, the current extinction rate is estimated to be up to 1000 times the expected natural one. Since AD1500, 784 extinctions have been recorded, according to the IUCN.

"The current extinction phenomenon is one for which a single species, ours, appears to be almost wholly responsible," it said.

Indonesia, India, Brazil and China are among the countries with the most threatened mammals and birds. Plant species are declining rapidly in South and Central America, Central and West Africa and South-East Asia.

Last year's report said 12,259 species were threatened but officials said the increase in threatened species of more than 3300 was largely down to improved and expanded research work.

The release of the report is the latest in a series of gloomy assessments over the state of the world's plants and animals.

A three-year study published last month said it was feared more than 100 amphibian species had disappeared since 1980 largely because of pollution and global warming. Scientists feared hundreds more would become extinct in coming decades.

Amphibians, with their highly permeable skins, are particularly sensitive to changes to freshwater and air quality and are considered one of nature's best indicators of environmental health.

The IUCN said half of the world's wetlands had been destroyed in the past century and more than a quarter of the world's coral reefs had also been lost.

However, the report said there were bright points with some species recovering after concerted conservation campaigns and others once thought extinct had been rediscovered.

The New Zealand storm petrel was presumed extinct but there were two separate sightings last year and further ones this year.

The European otter has moved out of the threatened categories amid signs of a recovery in western Europe and the former USSR.

The report was released to coincide with the opening of the World Conservation Congress in Bangkok. More than 5000 people including activists and more than 50 environment ministers are expected to attend over nine days.

The congress, bringing together scientists and experts from 181 countries, will debate the escalating extinction crisis and form a conservation blueprint for the next four years.


Blah.....Blah.....Blah......

[gaiacomm]

Jewish mothers before you tuck your children in to their beds tonight read them a story and show them the pictures of the children with no heads or arms because an Israel tank gunner shot at them on their way to school: http://www.intifada.com/

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Gaia,

You are getting a bit overboard. Please tone down the kill people sounding stuff. God and Christ are supposed to be into peaceful methods.

There is nothing wrong with telling the truths on the problems in the Jewish religion and holding them accountable for religion frauds.

You often have to take a lot of crap when you tell it like it is, but when you solid on with what it is you toss it out there and it will take hold with people that know how to sense the truth.

There is no doubt there is lots of tension in the Middle East, and it is largely due to these religion differences, with the Jews having one huge weight of being wrong with their overbearing theology.

There are better ways than killing everyone like in Bush's war games. Better ways are lay down what all is wrong on the information table and let the public learn and put their weight into getting the factors resolved.

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

Gaia,

You are getting a bit overboard. Please tone down the kill people sounding stuff. God and Christ are supposed to be into peaceful methods.

There is nothing wrong with telling the truths on the problems in the Jewish religion and holding them accountable for religion frauds.

You often have to take a lot of crap when you tell it like it is, but when you solid on with what it is you toss it out there and it will take hold with people that know how to sense the truth.

There is no doubt there is lots of tension in the Middle East, and it is largely due to these religion differences, with the Jews having one huge weight of being wrong with their overbearing theology.

There are better ways than killing everyone like in Bush's war games. Better ways are lay down what all is wrong on the information table and let the public learn and put their weight into getting the factors resolved.

IMHO,
is


I understand what you write but you are safe at home and not in the line of fire! And I do recall that God can be pretty nasty when he is upset....Like Sodom and Gomorah...Adam and Eve banished.....Noah......Moses.......and many other deaths....Truth is Truth!

There is tension even in the USA....KKK, Skin Heads.....NAACP.....Bush Admin......Hollywood....ABC...NBC....CBS.....IBM.. ..Microsoft....etc!!!!

Women mistreated all over the world!

[gaiacomm]

"Allah Aqba!"

[Insurrectionchemistry]

"I understand what you write but you are safe at home and not in the line of fire! "

Hi Gaia,

I know what you are saying also, and I know it pains you and everyone. Just don't step over the blue line.

It is a huge clash between versions of God, and we should not really be encoraging one side or the other toward killing each other.

I know it is going to blow up bigger and bigger anyway, with Bush's oil and Israel's fear of Arabs. I don't like it any more than you do. I am advocating putting Bush in jail for that and more.

I was against the Iraq war from the beginning and even joined protests in front of our local mall to call for "No war with Iraq." We should only voice ways to put water on the fire, not gasoline.

I think you know what I am getting at. Recall that even Mohammad was known for his great fairness and bringing peace to the waring Arab tribes, and we should follow his lead there. His Allah would be much like his examples set.

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

"I understand what you write but you are safe at home and not in the line of fire! "

Hi Gaia,

I know what you are saying also, and I know it pains you and everyone. Just don't step over the blue line.

It is a huge clash between versions of God, and we should not really be encoraging one side or the other toward killing each other.

I know it is going to blow up bigger and bigger anyway, with Bush's oil and Israel's fear of Arabs. I don't like it any more than you do. I am advocating putting Bush in jail for that and more.

I was against the Iraq war from the beginning and even joined protests in front of our local mall to call for "No war with Iraq." We should only voice ways to put water on the fire, not gasoline.

I think you know what I am getting at. Recall that even Mohammad was known for his great fairness and bringing peace to the waring Arab tribes, and we should follow his lead there. His Allah would be much like his examples set.

IMHO,
is


I truly appreciate your sensitiveness to the issues and my feelings. I have crossed over the blue line because no one else would and I did it so I would not regret it later.

I respect your point of view and will not use a high octane of gasoline on the fire! But we must be free! And water did not work during the American seperation from England in 1770. And it will not work now....except this time we have technology!

We in America should call for a regime change within our borders and rid ourseleves of the ones that do not allow us to be free! Women need to be set free as well They have suffered so much for the ignorance of men.

[gaiacomm]

"Allah Aqba!"

[whitemajikman]

Gaia your Anti-semitic Hissy Fits,are only showing just how much hatred you feel for Jews..............

Your Melting..........

That fake Persona of yours that Is.................. struggles desperately to keep concealed the very thing you wish to say which is..............


I AM LANCE HAUBRICK A.K.A GIACOMM AND I HATE JEWS ..............AND I AM AN ECO/FASCIST................AND I AM PROUD OF IT...............

[halva]

The Jews are just Jews and need to understand that they are no different than Pigs on a farm...and sometimes they act as if they are the ONES! But their god has forsaken them for the murder of his son!

Gaiacomm, I am considering ignore-listing you also.

Much of the material you are putting up on Israel and Iraq deserves to be up, but not on this thread.

Can't you start another thread, and you and Jim post on it everything related to Israel, Middle-East etc.

I would be regretful to ignore-list you, which solves no problem other than preserving my relative peace of mind.

But you are not behaving like even a semi-friend.

It won't matter too much to me to have everything ignore-listed apart from the postings on climate change that two or three of us are continuing to put up here. After all, the essential point has already been made on this thread.

But is that what you want. Or do you want me to continue reading you?

[whitemajikman]

Gaiacomm, I am considering ignore-listing you also.

Much of the material you are putting up on Israel and Iraq deserves to be up, but not on this thread.

Can't you start another thread, and you and Jim post on it everything related to Israel, Middle-East etc.

I would be regretful to ignore-list you, which solves no problem other than preserving my relative peace of mind.

But you are not behaving like even a semi-friend.

It won't matter too much to me to have everything ignore-listed apart from the postings on climate change that two or three of us are continuing to put up here. After all, the essential point has already been made on this thread.

But is that what you want. Or do you want me to continue reading you?

How are any better than Gaia ..........?


"Much of the material you are putting up on Israel and Iraq deserves to be up, but not on this thread."

Please explain "DESERVES" ......................

YOUR A HTEMONGER JUST LIKE GAIA JUST MORE REFINED........WAYNE.

But Still A HATE MONGER.....

WMM

[whitemajikman]

Gaiacomm, I am considering ignore-listing you also.

Much of the material you are putting up on Israel and Iraq deserves to be up, but not on this thread.

Can't you start another thread, and you and Jim post on it everything related to Israel, Middle-East etc.

I would be regretful to ignore-list you, which solves no problem other than preserving my relative peace of mind.

But you are not behaving like even a semi-friend.

It won't matter too much to me to have everything ignore-listed apart from the postings on climate change that two or three of us are continuing to put up here. After all, the essential point has already been made on this thread.

But is that what you want. Or do you want me to continue reading you?

How are you any better than Gaia ..........?


"Much of the material you are putting up on Israel and Iraq deserves to be up, but not on this thread."

Please explain "DESERVES" ......................

YOUR A HATEMONGER JUST LIKE GAIA JUST MORE REFINED........WAYNE.

But Still A HATE MONGER.....

WMM

[stuart_allsop]

The Jews are just Jews and need to understand that they are no different than Pigs on a farm...and sometimes they act as if they are the ONES! But their god has forsaken them for the murder of his son!Oh pleeze! Surely you cannot be serious? Is that REALLY what you think?

Time to set the record straight:
1) The Jews did not kill Jesus: we all did/ All of mankind is responsible for his death.
2) God was not SAD when Jesus was crucified. He was PLEASED! He PLANNED it that way!
3) God was not surprised by the crucifition! It was EXACTLY what he had planned from the start!
4) God has not punished the Jews for the death of Jesus, since Jesus is not even dead!
5) God has BLESSED the Jews, not ABANDONED them or foresaken them! He has blessed them abundantly, and protected them miraculously from the wars declared by their neighbors. How else do you explain a tiny flegling nation, recently formed, with no infrastructure, a few aging weapons, no experience, no support, facing vastly superior numbers, vastly superior weaponry ... and WINNING. Not once, but several times? Have you forgotten all of that? It happened less than fifty years ago, but repeats a pattern going back nearly 4,000 years. AS long as they remain faithful and obediant to God, they are invincible. IF they forgot about God and turn to other things, they lose. It's very simple. Check your history books.
6) They act as if they are "the ones" because they REALLY ARE "the ones"! But that is actually not what you think it is. Being God's Chosen People is NOT a blessing. It is a curse. Yes, it is a paradox, but when you study the Bible you find that EVERYTHING in it is a paradox, yet also makes perfect sense. Time after time, prophecy is fulfilled in exactly the opposite way of what was expected, yet totally meets every part of the prophecy. Jesus himself was the living illustraition of the fact that God enjoys a good paradox!

You don't agree, Dr Judah?

So prove me wrong, then. With solid evidence, if you please.

You wont....

You can't!

[stuart_allsop]

Jewish mothers before you tuck your children in to their beds tonight read them a story and show them the pictures of the children with no heads or arms because an Israel tank gunner shot at them on their way to school: http://www.intifada.com/Good idea! We can show our kids what happens to people who do really stupid things, like trying to stake a claim to the land that God has gavin to someone else!

[stuart_allsop]

Gaia, You are getting a bit overboard. Please tone down the kill people sounding stuff.Right!

God and Christ are supposed to be into peaceful methods.Wrong!

There is nothing wrong with telling the truths on the problems in the Jewish religion and holding them accountable for religion frauds.Right!

There is no doubt there is lots of tension in the Middle East, and it is largely due to these religion differences,Right! The Arab squatters who tried to invent a non-existant nation called "Palestine" just to displace the right fult owners ot the place, really have caused a lot of troubel, haven't they?

with the Jews having one huge weight of being wrong with their overbearing theology.Wrong!

[stuart_allsop]

Recall that even Mohammad was known for his great fairness and bringing peace to the waring Arab tribes,What???? Where on earth did you get THAT from? Muhammad was a failure as cult leader, a drunken rapist with bells in his head (by bis own admission), who turned to crime, theft, rape, robbery and mas murder in order to finance his personal vendatta of destroying the entire Jews race out of jealosy! He wa a "wannabe" Jew, who was so angry at not being BORN a Jew that he decided to kill all of them an invented a pseudo religion to replace Judaism.

You really should read the Qur'an before making silly statements like you just did, about what you think it says!


and we should follow his lead there. His Allah would be much like his examples set.Well, his "allah" didn;t set much of an example, did it?. Actually, "allah" was just a rock in a garden full of 360 similar rocks, that Muhammad's father tended for a living. allah was the moon-god rock in the idol-worshipping cult of the day, and was the most important rock in the garden. Muhammad's father had the job of keeping the rock-garden clean and tidy, and worshipping the rocks, one for each day o the year. allah was just a rock

Sheesh! You REALLY should do some research on Islam if you want to talk about it like that, and not look so terribly foolish! You know even less about it thatn you do about Christianity!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Oh My, Jewish Joe Lieberman even believes in man made global warming. How dare propagandists (Mossad like internet attack squads) Jews attack a US Congressperson Jew, makes ya look schitzo or something.

Global warming is real and also real is that mankind is causing it.

IMHO,
is


http://rense.com/general59/bushadminwantsartic.htm


Bush Administration
Wants Arctic Meltdown
By Wayne Madsen
11-18-4

WASHINGTON, DC -- Speaking off the record, scientists studying the current warming of the Arctic region intimated that some officials in the Bush administration saw the loss of Arctic ice and the resultant opening of sea channels such as the Northwest Passage of Canada as a good thing for the exploration and retrieval of oil and natural gas from the endangered region.

Over 300 international scientists have just completed an extensive 1200-page report documenting their exhaustive 4-year Arctic Climate Impact Assessment study on the rapid warming of the Arctic. The study was commissioned by the Arctic Council and the International Arctic Science Committee at a ministerial meeting of the Arctic Council in Point Barrow, Alaska in 2000. On November 8, the scientists released a 144-page summary of their findings at a press conference in Washington, DC.

As if out of a scene from the Roland Emmerich's climate disaster movie, "The Day After Tomorrow," the U.S. State Department is criticizing the international panel's call to slow down Arctic warming by curbing greenhouse emissions into the atmosphere. The State Department, according to some scientists, is echoing the positions of oil companies and anti-environmentalist pressure groups like the Cato Institute and Heritage Foundation, in dismissing the recent report on Arctic warming. In fact, President Bush has repeatedly referred to previous scientific studies pointing to the effects of global warming as "silly science" based on "fuzzy math." The chief State Department focal point on the Arctic warming issue is Paula Dobriansky, the Undersecretary of State for Global Affairs, who is seen as a virtual mouthpiece for Vice President Dick Cheney, the oil companies, and the anti-environmental groups. She will be trying to minimize the impact of the Arctic warming report before she attends the November 24 meeting of the Arctic Council in Reykjavik, Iceland where the report will be officially released. Before her current stint at the State Department, Dobriansky was an international affairs adviser with the law firm Hunton & Williams, whose clients include a number of large energy companies, including Exxon Mobil.

The report concludes that Arctic warming has increased dramatically since 1954. Average Arctic winter temperatures have increased as much as 4 to 7 degrees F (3-4 degrees C) during the past 50 years and are projected to increase another 7-13 degrees F (4-7 degrees C) over the next 100 years. Over the past 30 years, the sea-ice extent of the Arctic has decreased 386,100 square miles (or Texas and Arizona combined). Since Arctic sea ice is declining at such a rapid rate, maritime access by oil exploration ships and tankers is viewed by the Bush-Cheney administration and their oil industry backers as an economic windfall because of increased access to Arctic resources. Timber companies are also excited about access to Arctic timber reserves from accessible Arctic seaports. Therefore, the Bush administration and their corporate sponsors want to downplay the environmental catastrophe that will be brought about by an anticipated complete loss of Arctic ice and the creation of an iceless Arctic Ocean by the end of the century. Already, British Petroleum and a Russian partner are using newly-opened shipping channels in the Russian Arctic to begin the off-shore drilling of natural gas.

The possible opening of the Northwest Passage to maritime shipping has already prompted Canadian warnings to the United States not to intrude on its national territory. The United States does not recognize Canadian sovereignty over its Arctic sea passages. This past summer, Canada's largest warship, a fleet of helicopters, and 200 troops engaged in Operation Narwhal, the largest Canadian military exercise ever held in the Canadian Arctic Archipelago. Narwhal was also noteworthy in that U.S. military participants and observers were not invited.

The Bush administration and their oil company supporters have also dismissed concerns that oil spills resulting from increased maritime access to Arctic waters cannot be cleaned up because no solutions have been discovered on how to deal with oil contamination in colder waters, such as the Arctic. They point to continued problems arising from the Exxon Valdez disaster in Alaska's Prince William Sound in 1989.

In addition to the loss of the Arctic icepack, scientists discovered that substantial melting of the Greenland Ice Sheet will continue and its eventual melting will raise global sea levels by about 23 feet (7 meters). That, coupled with glacial melting in the Arctic (in Canada, Alaska, and Russia) and Antarctic melting, will cause the sea to flood most of southern and coastal Florida (including the Keys and the Everglades), the Mississippi Delta (including the city of New Orleans), a number of near-sea level islands in the Pacific, Indian, and Atlantic Oceans, and the expansion of tidal-influenced bays and rivers worldwide.

Arctic ice melt will also increase ocean salinity and this affects ocean currents that bring warmer waters to colder regions. Because saltier water results in colder water sinking, a decrease in salinity will result in colder water rising to the surface and threatening the thermohaline conveyor belt upon which Europe depends for its temperate climate [see Dale Allen Pfeiffer's writings on abrupt climate change and the thermohaline current in FTW, especially:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com
/free/ww3/050504_climate_change_pt2.html -- ed.].

The effect is that while temperatures increase in North America and Asia, regional cooling will take place in Europe. The imbalance will affect agriculture and the overall eco-system.

The loss of snow cover in the Arctic will mean that less solar energy will be reflected back into space, thus adding to the warming of the Arctic's land and water surfaces. Unprecedented rainfall is already being witnessed on Greenland's Ice Sheet by the local Inuit inhabitants.

According to the Arctic warming report, the loss of Arctic ice and permafrost will also result in the near extinction of a number of species, including the polar bear, a number of seal species, walruses, caribou, reindeer, lemmings, voles, and migratory birds such as snow owls. The Indigenous People of the Arctic will be forced to relocate from floods, loss of permafrost, coastal erosion from killer storms, building collapse from destruction of permafrost, and loss of food supply. In addition, rising Arctic temperatures are permitting the invasion of destructive insects such as the spruce beetle which has already decimated 1.6 million hectares of white spruce and Sitka/Lutz spruce on Alaska's Kenai Peninsula. In Sweden, invading moths have destroyed entire forests of birch trees. New species of birds entering the warmer Arctic tundra regions are also bringing with them a new disease - West Nile Virus, which threatens both humans and animals.

The Bush administration, in its unwillingness to appreciate the impact of Arctic warming and its desire for expanded oil sources, has incurred the wrath of the nations and peoples of the Arctic Council. These are Canada, Denmark, Greenland, Faroe Islands, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Russia, Sweden, the Aleut International Association, Arctic Athabaskan Council, Gwich'in Council International, Inuit Circumpolar Conference, Russian Association of Indigenous Peoples of the North, the Saami Council along with observers France, Germany, the Netherlands, Poland, and the United Kingdom. Russian President Vladimir Putin and Queen Elizabeth have both championed the efforts to reverse global warming as have Senators John McCain and Joseph Lieberman.

See also:

"An Arctic Alert on Global Warming," Peter N. Spotts, Staff writer of
The Christian Science Monitor. November 9th, 2004

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1109/p01s03-sten.html

"Satellites Record Weakening North Atlantic Current," NASA, Goddard Space Flight Center press release. April 15th, 2004.

http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/2004/0415gyre.html

http://www.fromthewilderness.com
/members/111104_arctic_meltdown.shtml

[halva]

Berlin summits with participation from queens and so on make good public relations but they can't substitute for proper liaising with the most informed sections of the citizenry.

Is this fact going to register, or not?

[gaiacomm]

Gaia your Anti-semitic Hissy Fits,are only showing just how much hatred you feel for Jews..............

Your Melting..........

That fake Persona of yours that Is.................. struggles desperately to keep concealed the very thing you wish to say which is..............


I AM LANCE HAUBRICK A.K.A GIACOMM AND I HATE JEWS ..............AND I AM AN ECO/FASCIST................AND I AM PROUD OF IT...............


Have you asked Lance if he feels that way? Now how I feel is different....you have read what I think and will do!

[gaiacomm]

What???? Where on earth did you get THAT from? Muhammad was a failure as cult leader, a drunken rapist with bells in his head (by bis own admission), who turned to crime, theft, rape, robbery and mas murder in order to finance his personal vendatta of destroying the entire Jews race out of jealosy! He wa a "wannabe" Jew, who was so angry at not being BORN a Jew that he decided to kill all of them an invented a pseudo religion to replace Judaism.

You really should read the Qur'an before making silly statements like you just did, about what you think it says!

Well, his "allah" didn;t set much of an example, did it?. Actually, "allah" was just a rock in a garden full of 360 similar rocks, that Muhammad's father tended for a living. allah was the moon-god rock in the idol-worshipping cult of the day, and was the most important rock in the garden. Muhammad's father had the job of keeping the rock-garden clean and tidy, and worshipping the rocks, one for each day o the year. allah was just a rock

Sheesh! You REALLY should do some research on Islam if you want to talk about it like that, and not look so terribly foolish! You know even less about it thatn you do about Christianity!


Jesus hung with killers and prostitiutes and other unclean people and he even became weak
before his death in the garden and did not wish to die...Jesus became afraid....do you wish to follow a man that becomes fearful of death? Jesus was a Jew and died a Jew! He was nailed to tree in front of everyone laughing and spitting on his body...where was his god then?

But if you believe...Jesus died for us!

[gaiacomm]

Good idea! We can show our kids what happens to people who do really stupid things, like trying to stake a claim to the land that God has gavin to someone else!


Show your children the pictutres of death before they go to sleep at night!~

[gaiacomm]

How are you any better than Gaia ..........?


"Much of the material you are putting up on Israel and Iraq deserves to be up, but not on this thread."

Please explain "DESERVES" ......................

YOUR A HATEMONGER JUST LIKE GAIA JUST MORE REFINED........WAYNE.

But Still A HATE MONGER.....

WMM


And you are ignorant of your ignorance!

[gaiacomm]

Gaiacomm, I am considering ignore-listing you also.

Much of the material you are putting up on Israel and Iraq deserves to be up, but not on this thread.

Can't you start another thread, and you and Jim post on it everything related to Israel, Middle-East etc.

I would be regretful to ignore-list you, which solves no problem other than preserving my relative peace of mind.

But you are not behaving like even a semi-friend.

It won't matter too much to me to have everything ignore-listed apart from the postings on climate change that two or three of us are continuing to put up here. After all, the essential point has already been made on this thread.

But is that what you want. Or do you want me to continue reading you?



I am surprised that you of all people would challenge my freedom of speech!

You may wish to study Democracy in the Greek edition the next time you challenge my authority and rights!

[gaiacomm]

Originally Posted by halva
Gaiacomm, I am considering ignore-listing you also.
(don't consider..just do it!)

Much of the material you are putting up on Israel and Iraq deserves to be up, but not on this thread.(WHY NOT?)

Can't you start another thread, and you and Jim post on it everything related to Israel, Middle-East etc.(WE CAN CONSIDER THAT)

I would be regretful to ignore-list you, which solves no problem other than preserving my relative peace of mind.(THAT IS TRUE)

But you are not behaving like even a semi-friend.(I AM YOUR FRIEND...SOON YOU WILL SEE...I AM NOT SEMI OR HALF OF ANYONE. I AM EITHER ALL OR NOTHING)

It won't matter too much to me to have everything ignore-listed apart from the postings on climate change that two or three of us are continuing to put up here. After all, the essential point has already been made on this thread.(THAT IS TRUE)

But is that what you want. Or do you want me to continue reading you? (THE CHOICE IS YOURS WAYNE NOT MINE....FREEDOM OF CHOICE)

[gaiacomm]

FYI:

Be afraid of ALLAH!


http://answering-islam.org.uk/

[gaiacomm]

The case for regime change in the USA

By Judah Ben-Hur

Al-Jazeerah, April 22, 2004



"Strange times are those in which we live when old and young are taught in falsehoods school. And the one man that dares to tell the truth is called at once a lunatic and a fool" - Plato

"And those who perform jihad for us, we shall certainly guide them in our ways, and God is surely with the doers of good." (Quran XXXIX; 69)

"You have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad." (Hadith)

To all who read and understand: it is time to take the next step in understanding. After careful and meticulous research, including access to files and data guarded by the United States Government, I have uncovered information that has been written about, talked about, read about, and in many cases silenced to protect and to confuse those who wish to uncover its not so guarded secrets.

Careful and planned exposure of this information seems to be the only way to begin the process of enlightenment of not just the American people but all peoples of this planet who are considered common men and women.

We cannot blame the "United States Government" for our woes, but ourselves for allowing our own Constitution to manipulate and control not just us but others in its path towards imperial rule, which by the way was why some people left England to come to the Americas to rid themselves of that tyranny. True democracy does not impede growth or dominate others. It was established to be a beacon for those who wish to call on its existence and only that. We do not have the right to impose democracy on nations or peoples who do not truly ask for it.

The United States in its own right is imposing pseudo-democratic policies through crafty methods - controlling without regard to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! Regime change within the United States should be seriously considered.

Fact: the United States has in its possession weapons of mass destruction, so why does not the United Nations impose restrictions against the United States?

Fear is the reason why no nation or individual will want to go up against this Goliath! Well I have a small stone, I know where to throw it, and if I have to by myself so be it.

The fact that Thomas Jefferson who co-authored the now infamous doctrine of democracy himself was an advocate of slaves.

Hypocrisy runs through the veins of the elite American people who control the destinies and lives of so many people.

What we all must learn is that the power in change is in the people that make up the majority of the civilized and so-called uncivilized world.

What gives this small group of people their control over us is the fact that they know we all will not collectively give up our lives to get back control of the government and rid ourselves of the self-serving politicians and business executives that control what we eat, where we sleep, who to like and not like, what to read, what to write, how to dress, how and who to love, who to hate, what race is superior, who gets education, who not, where to travel, who lives, who dies, who eats, who does not eat, who gets elected in office, who does not get elected, who is popular and who is not, who is "in" who is not, what clothes to wear, what not, what movie or music star is in, which one is not, who to disrespect who to not, who to be prejudice to and who to not, what freedoms we have and have not, who gets destroyed, who not, who must accept the "way" and who not, who goes to prison, and who not, and the list goes on into infinity.

Remember that in the Constitution it does allow for bloodless regime change within the government as long as we stand together and collectively vote for our freedoms back. Rid ourselves of the electoral college and other manipulative organizations that are self-serving their own agendas at the expense, hard work and lives of so many innocent and misguided people that are here within the borders of despair.

The French Government should formally request that the Statue of Liberty be returned to France. We all know what it was for.

The United States has over many years systematically infiltrated other nations to "weed" out the non-conformers to the so-called Democratic process and replace those with the showroom dummies of democracy. Granted, the United States has some freedom of movement for its people but not the way it was originally intended. Look at Africa, South America, and parts of Europe, Asia and other nations that are sucking the teat of the cow and its sour milk.

Collectively, we the people of the world should stand up and be counted on to rid ourselves of individuals who are ignorant of their own ignorance and replace this Constitution with one that includes all religions, all peoples, all races, all nations and all who feel left out and want to be what they want to be without the constraints of prejudice and restrictive law. Not to run lawless but have the right to be an individual and collectively correct this turmoil we are in.

The Earth is trying to warn us that we are spinning out of control and that we need to correct ourselves soon or the earth will rid itself of this infection and parasite called mankind that is slowly destroying its primary intent to allow its inhabitants the freedom to live be fruitful and multiply to the extent of finding a way to leave this planet and journey to others and spread some sort of reason rather than an infectious spore.

I am a physicist and a patriot who, through years of being silent, had almost forgotten my obligations. It is high time I and others like me use our intellect and technology to stand up against an oppressor and rid ourselves of this infection. We are a legion that wants to live a life of peace and respect for all living things and have considerations for those who are different and look for ways to truly accommodate those who are slow in understanding.

We do not need your help just your patience and understanding of what we are about.

We are America's best-kept secret that just got out of the "keep".

Judah Ben-Hur, Physicist, Gaiacomm Corporation http://www.gaiacomm.org Technology for peace

A president and physicist of a Californian technologies company dips into journalism to make his case for a more transparent United States of America.

[stuart_allsop]

Jesus hung with killers and prostitiutes and other unclean people and he even became weak before his death in the garden and did not wish to die...Jesus became afraid....do you wish to follow a man that becomes fearful of death? Jesus was a Jew and died a Jew! He was nailed to tree in front of everyone laughing and spitting on his body...where was his god then?

But if you believe...Jesus died for us!
You seem to be confusing your posts, Judah! The one you quoted was talking about the utterly evil "religion" of Islam, and how it was founded by drunken bum. It wasn't talking about Jesus, who is the exact opposite of everything in Islam.

But since you bring up the subject, let's take a look at what you said.


Jesus hung with killers and prostitiutes and other unclean peopleYes he did! That was the whole point! Sorry that you missed it before, but as he said, he came to this earth not to preach to the choir (who weren't listeneing anyway), but to go out on the street and preach to the people who WOULD listen, and who NEEDED his message the most. That was the entire purpose of Jesus' visit to Earth: To offer salvation to those who woulld listen and who need it the most, no matter how low they have sunk. It was for those hookers, drunks, and diseased folsk back then, and it is for you and me today. For everyone. For you, foot soldier, halva, and Jim, Shawn, ... anyone can get that slavation that Jesus taught, if you want it. It makes no difference who you are or what you have said or done. As you pointed out, Gaia, Jesus brought salvation even for the lowest of the low. Are you interested in that salvation? I'd be happy to lead you to it, if you wish. You or anyone else that wants it. Think about it. Seriously. You never know when your number might come up, and then it's too late.


and he even became weak before his death in the garden and did not wish to die...Jesus became afraid....Yes, very true. What did you expect? He was a man, entirely human, just like the rest of us. Would you not be afraid of your own impending death, even if you knew it would save the lives of others? If you knew, as Jesus did, exactly the extreme agony that you would have to go through over the next 12 hours, would you not also get on your knees and pray that God might open up another way, and free you of the reponsibiltty that you had already accepted?

But you seem to have missed the most importnat point, here. Sure Jesus was anguished, and afraid, and sure he wanted to avoid it. Yet he still did it!. He went through with it, to the bitter end. Perhaps one of the most poignant moments in all the ministry of Jesus, was when he finished that prayer by sayng, basically "But its OK, Dad, I'll still obey you, I'll still go through with it, because it is your will that matters, not mine." Total obedience, even unto death! Could you face that, and not run? I don't think I could.

Don't forget that, at this point, Jesus has every escape route still open. He's in the garden, outside the city walls, late at night, in darkness, nobody around except his sleeping friends, and the guards have not yet arrived to arrest him. If he REALLY wanted out, all he had to do was walk away.

But he didn't. He stayed the course.

And he did it for you.



do you wish to follow a man that becomes fearful of death?Of course! Because it shows that he really WAS a man, just like me! He wasn't some kind of mystical esoteric supreme being that has no ida of what it is like to be a normal, average human being. That's the whole point! Jesus was a MAN, just like you and me. Sure, he had the SPIRIT of God's son in him, but he was still anormal flesh-and-blood man! He experienced all the emotions, fears, pains, and temptations that we endure. He knew EXACTLY what it was to be just a man. He was HUMAN, and therefore he understands just what I am like, and just what I go through. He understands just what you are like, and just what you go through in your ilfe. He KNOWS, because he has "been there and done that". And he paid the price, so that you don't have to.


Jesus was a Jew and died a Jew! He was nailed to tree in front of everyone laughing and spitting on his body...Yes! Exactly! Exactly like Isaiah had predicted, moe than a thousand years beforehand, right down to the tiniest detail. It all happened exactly according to God's plan, right on time, prefectly executed. "He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." That's from Isaiah 53, vebatim, more than 1000 years prior.


where was his god then?Right where he was supposed to be! Watching, thoroughly pleased and proud! Extaticly happy! This is the core, the key, the most important moment EVER in the history of mankind, and it is all working out EXACTLY according to God's plan. Of course he was pleased! Some translations of the verse I quoted above say "It pleased God to crush him".

Far from the way that the Catholic church has depicted the cricifiction of Jesus, God was not up there, crying and shaking hiw head, saying "Oh NO!!! All is lost!!! They killed my SON!!!! Now what!" Not at all. It was EXACTLY the opposite, it was a grand triumph, the perfection of a plan that had taken millenia to put in place. You can almost imagine God giving Gabriel a high-five, shouting "YES!!!" and pumping his arm in triumph. It was a great victory, an moment for celebration!

Unfortuantely, you seem to have picked up on the catholic version of the situation, where God is wringing his hands in despair, surprised, and shocked, stunned by the suddent unexpected turn of events, mourning for his dead son, and wondering what to do next. GARBAGE! Unadulterated MUSH! The Bible does not teach that at all! The Bibkle teahces EXACTLY the opposite. The catholic church is partly responsible for spreading this incredibly WRONG image of what Jesus' death was all about, confusing millions of people, just like they have confused you... and one day they will have to answer for it! Utter drivel.

Why would God be sad, when his greatest victory ever was achieved at that very moment? He wasn't morning for a "dead" son, since the son wasn't dead at all! Sure, the human body of Jesus died on the cross, bit so what? The spirirt, the REAL Jesus, the REAL son of God, lived on. And even his body was resurrected a couple of days later, to perfect the victory totally.

And it all happened because of one person: YOU.

Would you like to hear more?

Maybe you have already noticed, Gaia, but for the very first time here, in this post I'm not being acidly sarcastic with you. I'm just telling you like it is, trying to be friendly, and hoping that you might be ready to understand what I'm trying to tell you, to pick up on it, and to take the last step that God wants you to take, to make all of what He did worthwhile. All that you have to do is to accept it. That's it! It's a free gift. No strings attached. Its probably the only totally free gift in all of human history. It's yours for the taking. If you just accept him, from the heart, and turn over your life to Him, then you get the gift, for free.

Interested?

Just talk to me. stuart_allsop@yahoo.com

[gaiacomm]

I am always interested in truth! I see by what you write that you are one of gods onward christian soliders...marching on! I see you love your Christ and that is good. Your God should be proud of you for defending his truth. Allah is my god also and I will never put man in front of Allah/GOD.

Got GOD?

[gaiacomm]

You seem to be confusing your posts, Judah! The one you quoted was talking about the utterly evil "religion" of Islam, and how it was founded by drunken bum. It wasn't talking about Jesus, who is the exact opposite of everything in Islam.(YES YOU ARE CORRECT)

But since you bring up the subject, let's take a look at what you said.

Yes he did! That was the whole point! Sorry that you missed it before, but as he said, he came to this earth not to preach to the choir (who weren't listeneing anyway), but to go out on the street and preach to the people who WOULD listen, and who NEEDED his message the most. That was the entire purpose of Jesus' visit to Earth: To offer salvation to those who woulld listen and who need it the most, no matter how low they have sunk. It was for those hookers, drunks, and diseased folsk back then, and it is for you and me today. For everyone. For you, foot soldier, halva, and Jim, Shawn, ... anyone can get that slavation that Jesus taught, if you want it. It makes no difference who you are or what you have said or done. As you pointed out, Gaia, Jesus brought salvation even for the lowest of the low. Are you interested in that salvation? I'd be happy to lead you to it, if you wish. You or anyone else that wants it. Think about it. Seriously. You never know when your number might come up, and then it's too late.
(I UNDERSTAND) (I AM VERY THIRSTY FOR TRUTH)

Yes, very true. What did you expect? He was a man, entirely human, just like the rest of us. Would you not be afraid of your own impending death, even if you knew it would save the lives of others? If you knew, as Jesus did, exactly the extreme agony that you would have to go through over the next 12 hours, would you not also get on your knees and pray that God might open up another way, and free you of the reponsibiltty that you had already accepted?(I UNDERSTAND)

But you seem to have missed the most importnat point, here. Sure Jesus was anguished, and afraid, and sure he wanted to avoid it. Yet he still did it!. He went through with it, to the bitter end. Perhaps one of the most poignant moments in all the ministry of Jesus, was when he finished that prayer by sayng, basically "But its OK, Dad, I'll still obey you, I'll still go through with it, because it is your will that matters, not mine." Total obedience, even unto death! Could you face that, and not run? I don't think I could.(I ALREADY HAVE FACED DEATH AND STOOD MY GROUND AND THAT IS WHY THEY DID NOT KILL ME) (I HAD NO FEAR OF DEATH IN MY EYES...THEY THREW DOWN THEIR WEAPONS A TEARS CAME FROM THEIR EYES AND THEY LEFT ME)

Don't forget that, at this point, Jesus has every escape route still open. He's in the garden, outside the city walls, late at night, in darkness, nobody around except his sleeping friends, and the guards have not yet arrived to arrest him. If he REALLY wanted out, all he had to do was walk away. (I UNDERSTAND)

But he didn't. He stayed the course.

And he did it for you.(YES, I KNOW)


Of course! Because it shows that he really WAS a man, just like me! He wasn't some kind of mystical esoteric supreme being that has no ida of what it is like to be a normal, average human being. That's the whole point! Jesus was a MAN, just like you and me. Sure, he had the SPIRIT of God's son in him, but he was still anormal flesh-and-blood man! He experienced all the emotions, fears, pains, and temptations that we endure. He knew EXACTLY what it was to be just a man. He was HUMAN, and therefore he understands just what I am like, and just what I go through. He understands just what you are like, and just what you go through in your ilfe. He KNOWS, because he has "been there and done that". And he paid the price, so that you don't have to.(YES)

Yes! Exactly! Exactly like Isaiah had predicted, moe than a thousand years beforehand, right down to the tiniest detail. It all happened exactly according to God's plan, right on time, prefectly executed. "He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken. He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth. Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand. After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors." That's from Isaiah 53, vebatim, more than 1000 years prior. (GOOD POINT)

Right where he was supposed to be! Watching, thoroughly pleased and proud! Extaticly happy! This is the core, the key, the most important moment EVER in the history of mankind, and it is all working out EXACTLY according to God's plan. Of course he was pleased! Some translations of the verse I quoted above say "It pleased God to crush him".(YES)

Far from the way that the Catholic church has depicted the cricifiction of Jesus, God was not up there, crying and shaking hiw head, saying "Oh NO!!! All is lost!!! They killed my SON!!!! Now what!" Not at all. It was EXACTLY the opposite, it was a grand triumph, the perfection of a plan that had taken millenia to put in place. You can almost imagine God giving Gabriel a high-five, shouting "YES!!!" and pumping his arm in triumph. It was a great victory, an moment for celebration!

Unfortuantely, you seem to have picked up on the catholic version of the situation, where God is wringing his hands in despair, surprised, and shocked, stunned by the suddent unexpected turn of events, mourning for his dead son, and wondering what to do next. GARBAGE! Unadulterated MUSH! The Bible does not teach that at all! The Bibkle teahces EXACTLY the opposite. The catholic church is partly responsible for spreading this incredibly WRONG image of what Jesus' death was all about, confusing millions of people, just like they have confused you... and one day they will have to answer for it! Utter drivel. (NO )

Why would God be sad, when his greatest victory ever was achieved at that very moment? He wasn't morning for a "dead" son, since the son wasn't dead at all! Sure, the human body of Jesus died on the cross, bit so what? The spirirt, the REAL Jesus, the REAL son of God, lived on. And even his body was resurrected a couple of days later, to perfect the victory totally.

And it all happened because of one person: YOU.(I KNOW)

Would you like to hear more? ( YES, I WOULD)

Maybe you have already noticed, Gaia, but for the very first time here, in this post I'm not being acidly sarcastic with you. I'm just telling you like it is, trying to be friendly, and hoping that you might be ready to understand what I'm trying to tell you, to pick up on it, and to take the last step that God wants you to take, to make all of what He did worthwhile. All that you have to do is to accept it. That's it! It's a free gift. No strings attached. Its probably the only totally free gift in all of human history. It's yours for the taking. If you just accept him, from the heart, and turn over your life to Him, then you get the gift, for free.(YES, I UNDERSTAND)

Interested? (YES)

Just talk to me. stuart_allsop@yahoo.com



You are a good Christian and God should be proud of you! I am of you!

[jayreynolds]

Exodus 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

Jim Phelps, and all the rest of you chemtrails cultists, the LORD hates a false witness who pours out lies.

How will it feel to FACE GOD, knowing the lies you have told to promote the "chemtrails" hoax?

No squishy-squashy answers then. No beating around the bush. HE knows.

What say you?

[gaiacomm]

Exodus 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

Jim Phelps, and all the rest of you chemtrails cultists, the LORD hates a false witness who pours out lies.

How will it feel to FACE GOD, knowing the lies you have told to promote the "chemtrails" hoax?

No squishy-squashy answers then. No beating around the bush. HE knows.

What say you?


I see that JR and company has christ on his mind!

[gaiacomm]

"Allah hu Akbar"

[Yaak]

Freedom of speech is a precious God given right. My neighbors in Canada have had that right taken from them. Hate speech is now a crime in Canada and punishable by imprisonment. Freedom of speech allows the haters to come forth and identify themselves (as they always do) so that the rest of us may recognize them. The light of freedom has illuminated the darkness (hate) in which gaiacomm, Jim Phelps, Wayne Hall, The Shadow, and their ilk hide.

[gaiacomm]

Freedom of speech is a precious God given right. My neighbors in Canada have had that right taken from them. Hate speech is now a crime in Canada and punishable by imprisonment. Freedom of speech allows the haters to come forth and identify themselves (as they always do) so that the rest of us may recognize them. The light of freedom has illuminated the darkness (hate) in which gaiacomm, Jim Phelps, Wayne Hall, The Shadow, and their ilk hide.




"Allah hu Akbar"

[halva]

Originally Posted by halva
Gaiacomm, I am considering ignore-listing you also.
(don't consider..just do it!)

I try not to do things without properly considering the consequences.



Much of the material you are putting up on Israel and Iraq deserves to be up, but not on this thread.(WHY NOT?)

Because this thread is entitled "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature". Its starting point was an article by Arianna Huffington on climate change.



Can't you start another thread, and you and Jim post on it everything related to Israel, Middle-East etc.(WE CAN CONSIDER THAT)

Fine. That was what I was requesting.

By the way, I see from the extract from Stuart Allsop's posting that I was able to read, because it was quoted by Gaiacomm, that S. Allsop (or at least a part of him) is in search of peace of mind. He also gives a private e-mail address. That is a very good move. Private correspondence by mutual consent is a better way of securing peace of mind than gatecrashing into discussions where your contributions are unappreciated by many of the participants.

I do not much need religious consolation, but if I do need it I go to a church (an Orthodox Church, though I am not baptised in that religion, or any religion). I try to avoid imposing my need on others. Perhaps not always entirely successfully, but anyway........

[halva]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1100731810050&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795

Enjoy the Arctic while it's still here

The next time you step outside, take a good long look around. What you will see is how the Arctic has looked for at least 10,000 years and you may be among the last of the many generations who can say they have seen it that way.

By 2100, trees will grow as far north as Kugluktuk, Rankin Inlet, Coral Harbour and even Cambridge Bay. Most of the polar bears left on the planet will be in zoos: there won't be enough sea ice for them to travel and hunt on. And in the summer, there will be little sea-ice anywhere, except, perhaps, around the North Pole. Ringed seal and walrus, now plentiful, may become endangered species. Lemmings, snowy owls and arctic foxes may vanish from lands where they now flourish.

At the same time, structures built on steel piles driven into the rock-like hardness of the permafrost will sag and fall apart. Cancers, cataracts and immune system diseases caused by ultraviolet radiation will proliferate among Arctic peoples. Giant tankers and cargo ships will steam through the ice-free waters of the Northwest Passage, while drilling platforms will dot the ice-free waters around the High Arctic islands, sucking natural gas from beneath the floor of the Arctic ocean.

We now know all this because of a gargantuan report on global warming and the Arctic commissioned by the eight-nation Arctic Council. It represents four years of work by nearly 300 scientists, assisted by the knowledge of many hundreds of aboriginal people throughout the circumpolar world.

Their efforts are aimed at reaching as many people as possible: especially political leaders in the eight Arctic nations and the ordinary people who elect them.

Though a 140-page plain-language summary of the report, called Impacts of a Warming Arctic: Arctic Climate Impact Assessment, was officially unveiled this week in Reykjavik, Iceland, much of its message is not new.

But even if many parts of the report are not entirely new, its effect is startling. Humans are entering a period of rapid climate change the likes of which have not been seen for at least 10,000 years. So far, we're not even close to figuring out how to do what it will take to slow it down. And our political leaders are totally unprepared.

But what's worse is that the Nunavut government has no clear energy policy, and little or no capacity to develop one and carry it out. Global warming, after all, is an energy issue. It's about the burning of oil, gas and coal to heat buildings, create electricity and power the engines of motor vehicles. That is what is responsible for the greenhouse effect that causes global warming.

The federal government is also badly unprepared. As officials with Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami pointed out this week, Canada has no national climate change assessment office.

Another area where Canada is failing to pull its weight is in support for Arctic science. Canada claims stewardship over one-third of the planet's Arctic region.

But most of the scientific work that you will find in the ACIA report has been done by researchers from the U.S., Scandinavia, and the U.K. Even this week, frustrated Canadian scientists who made it to Reykjavik were complaining about Canada's lack of support for their vital work.

Not so long ago, global warming was an issue surrounded by legitimate doubt. But now the evidence is in and the jury has declared its verdict. There is no longer any doubt.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an excerpt of an editorial from The Nunatsiaq News, Iqaluit, Nunavut

[halva]

Mike Ruppert interview. Extract from:
http://www.newtopiamagazine.net/content/issue19/features/ruppert.php

"Many experts, including my dear fried Richard Heinberg (author: The Party’s Over and Powerdown) are in complete agreement that post-petroleum and Peak Oil solutions will be local and governed by geography and local communities more than anything else. There will be no painless magic bullet solutions for anybody.

Newtopia: The previous question notwithstanding, the approach of the neoconservatives currently in power seems to be quite the opposite: They seem to have decided on the approach of acting as though nothing is wrong, meanwhile doing everything possible to place all the world's oil reserves under American control, either directly or indirectly. There is a brutal logic to this approach, although no amount of military expenditure will ever increase the amount of accessible oil on Earth. So even if one buys into the neocons' apparent assessment of the situation, there has to come a point of diminishing returns. To put it bluntly: How long could the US remain at current usage levels if we forcibly seized all of the known oil reserves in the world?

MR: Great question but the answer is uncertain. The question assumes that somehow the US will be able to “take” all the energy it needs, whenever it needs it. The truth is that the global energy supply is a very complex system which as has been recently demonstrated – quite clearly – has no elasticity whatsoever. Not every event or circumstance is answerable with military force. For example: a large Russian tanker just stalled yesterday in the narrowest part of the Suez Canal when its steering gears allegedly failed. Some 130 ships were backed up behind it. That’s a problem that can’t be bombed into submission.

There is massive civil unrest exploding through maybe ten countries in Africa. Strikes are pending in Nigeria and Norway. Sometimes refineries go idle or are damaged by weather as recently happened in the Gulf of Mexico with four hurricanes in a row.

There are other problems such as with refining capacity. Saudi Arabia and other countries have recently boosted production. But they can do so only with heavy-sour oil which cannot be turned into gasoline by most refineries. We do not need asphalt, we need gasoline. No new refineries are being built because (at a cost of around $150 million, with a 2-3 year lag time) the oil companies know that there won’t be enough future oil production to repay for the capital cost of building the new refineries. That’s why no – zero – significant new refinery construction is taking place anywhere that affects the global supply chain.

A better question is: How long will the US have before supply disruptions and production shortfalls hit home? The answer in my opinion is: less than a year."

[foot_soldier]

November 17, 2004
Arctic Warming Dangers Detailed to Senate Committee
http://www.climateark.org/articles/reader.asp?linkid=36500

Excerpts:

WASHINGTON, DC, November 17, 2004 (ENS) - Arctic warming is the result of human activity, a foremost climate scientist told a Senate committee on Tuesday. Some long term impacts of global warming could be reduced by lowering global greenhouse gas emissions over this century, said Dr. Robert Corell, chair of the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment, in testimony before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation.

The hearing, chaired by Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican, was held to discuss the assessment by the Arctic Council and the International Arctic Sciences Committee entitled, "Impacts of a Warming Arctic." It is part of a series of climate change hearings held by the committee.

The four year study of the Arctic, a summary of which was released November 8, concludes that the region is warming at nearly twice the rate of the rest of the planet and that increasing greenhouse gases from human activities are likely to make it even warmer in the future.

"The preface of the report states that it is essential that decision makers have the latest and best information regarding ongoing climatic changes in the Arctic. I strongly agree with that statement," said McCain, a cosponsor of a Senate bill that seeks to accelerate the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions in the United States and reduce dependence on foreign oil.

( ... )

Elevated ultraviolet radiation levels will affect people, plants, and animals.

-- The stratospheric ozone layer over the Arctic is not expected to improve significantly for at least a few decades, largely due to the effect of greenhouse gases on stratospheric temperatures. Ultraviolet radiation (UV) in the Arctic is thus projected to remain elevated in the coming decades.

-- As a result, the current generation of arctic young people is likely to receive a lifetime dose of UV that is about 30% higher than any prior generation. Increased UV is known to cause skin cancer, cataracts, and immune system disorders in humans. Elevated UV can disrupt photosynthesis in plants and have detrimental effects on the early life stages of fish and amphibians.

-- Risks to some arctic ecosystems are likely as the largest increases in UV occur in spring, when sensitive species are most vulnerable, and warming-related declines in snow and ice cover increase exposure for living things normally protected by such cover.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

"Arctic warming is the result of human activity, a foremost climate scientist told a Senate committee on Tuesday."


Isn't it interesting that Congress goes and gets the testimony of real experts, who tell that arctic warming is MAN induced.

Seems to go totally counter to the detractors here that always say it is supposed to be red, when in reality it was supposed to be green. They fein religion but illustrate profane concepts of religion that ignore that we are supposed to be good stewards of the planet.

What else is upside down, The detractors follow concepts of a religion that originated in Satanic methods and their Bush motivated agendas are tantamount lies. Bush policy follows his Skull methods of the Rothchilds profit model to promote wars and invoke the Phoenix Black Bird profits of war.

The US does not have a president, it has Satan at the helm of a ship of fools. The fools deceit and treachery screeds are not based in any God intent on good or world environmental stewardship. It is lowly that they are.

IMHO,
is

[jayreynolds]

Exodus 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.

Jim Phelps, and all the rest of you chemtrails cultists, the LORD hates a false witness who pours out lies.

How will it feel to FACE GOD, knowing the lies you have told to promote the "chemtrails" hoax?

No squishy-squashy answers then. No beating around the bush. HE knows.

What say you?

Perhaps Wayne Hall, Deborah, and Jim Phelps are taking some time to consider my question. I find it interesting that none of them were able to answer quickly, as if they were people with a clear conscience about their activities promoting this hoax. .

Answer the question, chemmies,
How will it feel to FACE GOD, knowing the lies you have told to promote the "chemtrails" hoax?

[The Shadow]

With those glowing red eyes, Mr. Reynolds, you would certainly drop dead or turn to stone in the presence God. Then again, I doubt that you will ever have the opportunity to find out.

The Shadow knows...

[The Shadow]

Freedom of speech is a precious God given right. My neighbors in Canada have had that right taken from them. Hate speech is now a crime in Canada and punishable by imprisonment. Freedom of speech allows the haters to come forth and identify themselves (as they always do) so that the rest of us may recognize them. The light of freedom has illuminated the darkness (hate) in which gaiacomm, Jim Phelps, Wayne Hall, The Shadow, and their ilk hide.


Ultimately revealing is the fact you, Yaakity-yaak, are apparently excusing the “darkness (hate)” that quite readily pervades the oratories continuously offered by you and especially Mr. “fag boy” Reynolds. The two of you are obviously little more than crybabies, whose signature “screaming” with over-sized text is merely attention-grabbing desperation. I do not agree with a lot of what I have seen on this message board and others. However, if you honestly think that “the rest of us” are swallowing your attempts to shift the focus away from your own vitriol, somehow elevating yourselves in the process, you have succeeded only in “identifying” your opportunistic idiocy. Save your whimpering rationalizations and mind control experiments for your vacuous disciples.

The Shadow knows more than you care to believe...

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi Shadow,

The ill natured, aka disgruntled, JR and his perfidious ilk seem to confuse G. Bush's policies for God. Remember, God tells the messianic Bush everything to do for the sheep to make the lions richer. They all think Bush is the right hand of their god, the plunderer. Like they are color blind to correct methods for environmental stewardship, so are they blind toward serving anything other than their own CO-2 generator oil companies. Def-mutes they are toward truth.

There are those of us who respect both the real God and the concepts of environmental stewardship that run counter to the turn and burn agenda of Bush's anti-Christ rhetoric.

It is real easy to spot the real persons that serve at the Right Hand of God, because they know the ideals of environmental stewardship, religious accountabilty, they always lay the truth right on the table and stand up for right.

Good words, observations, you have, Sir. Shadow,

IMHO,
is

PS--Other words to live by:

"In response, Teddy Roosevelt, the 26th President of the United States, complained during his 1912 election campaign, "Behind the visible government there is an invisible government upon the throne that owes the people no loyalty and recognizes no responsibility. To destroy this invisible government, to undo the ungodly union between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the task of a statesman.""

From: http://www.tetrahedron.org/news/jewish_hate.html

May we all become as committed statesmen of reason and loyalty to the read God and the People's countries.

[gaiacomm]

I try not to do things without properly considering the consequences.



Because this thread is entitled "It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature". Its starting point was an article by Arianna Huffington on climate change.



Fine. That was what I was requesting.

By the way, I see from the extract from Stuart Allsop's posting that I was able to read, because it was quoted by Gaiacomm, that S. Allsop (or at least a part of him) is in search of peace of mind. He also gives a private e-mail address. That is a very good move. Private correspondence by mutual consent is a better way of securing peace of mind than gatecrashing into discussions where your contributions are unappreciated by many of the participants.

I do not much need religious consolation, but if I do need it I go to a church (an Orthodox Church, though I am not baptised in that religion, or any religion). I try to avoid imposing my need on others. Perhaps not always entirely successfully, but anyway........


Wayne, well written!

[jayreynolds]

I see Jim Phelps was not able to bring himself to respond regarding what will happen when he meets God, who knows each and every one of the lies he has told. Jim, therefore, isn't really a man who fully believes that what he says is true. To the contrary, he is fully aware that he has made false testimony in his chemtrail claims and is inwardly convicted. This is why he is outwardly silent, he is ashamed. Though he may present many signs of lunacy, I am convinced that he is cognizant of the difference between right and wrong, and his own lies.

Many liars think that to come clean now by admitting the lies that they would lose something. Of course, the opposite is true, for lies never help, they only beget more lies, resulting in inner anguish and outward restrictions. An unrepentant liar is saddled by a heavy load, he must carry the weight of the lies, which load becomes ever more burdensome as more and more are told. Essentially, those lies bind him down, and seek to bind others as well, who might accept them as truth. Each lie binds you like a chain, they ensnare and enslave you.

Do you really wish to force others into carrying the same burden of lies as you do, Jim?
Do you even realize that you will be held partly accountable for the sins of those whom you recruit into your lies?

Jim, it's really time to clear all this up. There is still a chance. This goes for Wayne Hall, Deborah, and all the rest. Confess what you know, expose the lies and they will melt away, along with the chains you surely must feel.

Set yourself, and others, free.

For my part, I will face Him with a clear conscience, knowing that I did indeed expose the works of darkness in this chemtrails hoax as he has commanded. I'm not without sin, however, and have never claimed to be a saint. I, too will face God.

[gaiacomm]

I see that we all are discussing GOD in our words with each other. That is a good sign for all of us even for JR and company...God is important to each of us....And your Jesus died on the cross to save all of our sins and forgave us even if we do no believe yet. God will wait!

I think that has some importance other than chemtrails and global warming...don't you think?

Maybe we can all share and discuss what Christ or what our God means to us and how we can help each other understand the LOVE that is waiting for us all!

I am a Nomad in the desert looking for water because I thirst...what about you?


After all this thread is titled: It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature (god)

[gaiacomm]

I see Jim Phelps was not able to bring himself to respond regarding what will happen when he meets God, who knows each and every one of the lies he has told. Jim, therefore, isn't really a man who fully believes that what he says is true. To the contrary, he is fully aware that he has made false testimony in his chemtrail claims and is inwardly convicted. This is why he is outwardly silent, he is ashamed. Though he may present many signs of lunacy, I am convinced that he is cognizant of the difference between right and wrong, and his own lies.

Many liars think that to come clean now by admitting the lies that they would lose something. Of course, the opposite is true, for lies never help, they only beget more lies, resulting in inner anguish and outward restrictions. An unrepentant liar is saddled by a heavy load, he must carry the weight of the lies, which load becomes ever more burdensome as more and more are told. Essentially, those lies bind him down, and seek to bind others as well, who might accept them as truth. Each lie binds you like a chain, they ensnare and enslave you.

Do you really wish to force others into carrying the same burden of lies as you do, Jim?
Do you even realize that you will be held partly accountable for the sins of those whom you recruit into your lies?

Jim, it's really time to clear all this up. There is still a chance. This goes for Wayne Hall, Deborah Stark, and all the rest. Confess what you know, expose the lies and they will melt away, along with the chains you surely must feel.

Set yourself, and others, free.

For my part, I will face Him with a clear conscience, knowing that I did indeed expose the works of darkness in this chemtrails hoax as he has commanded. I'm not without sin, however, and have never claimed to be a saint. I, too will face God.


JR, God is waiting for you now!

[jayreynolds]

From: http://www.tetrahedron.org/news/jewish_hate.html

May we all become as committed statesmen of reason and loyalty to the read God and the People's countries.

Interesting that you would use Leonard Horowitz as a reference, Jim.
He is thoroughly as much of a heretic as you are.
I'd like to hear what you have to say about this "prayer machine" that Horowitz developed, called his "Miracle6".
http://miracle6.nexuswebs.net/
The bottom line:

"When you use this program, it will change your life and your perception of reality.
What can you accomplish?
What you would normally consider miraculous, or impossible.
Clustered Water, Astral Travel, Lucid Dreaming, Telepathy, Cloud Busting, Brain Training, Rife Frequencies, Love, Lust, Money, Power and a whole lot of other things."

[gaiacomm]

Interesting that you would use Leonard Horowitz as a reference, Jim.
He is thoroughly as much of a heretic as you are.
I'd like to hear what you have to say about this "prayer machine" that Horowitz developed, called his "Miracle6".
http://miracle6.nexuswebs.net/
The bottom line:

"When you use this program, it will change your life and your perception of reality.
What can you accomplish?
What you would normally consider miraculous, or impossible.
Clustered Water, Astral Travel, Lucid Dreaming, Telepathy, Cloud Busting, Brain Training, Rife Frequencies, Love, Lust, Money, Power and a whole lot of other things."


JR, God is waiting to give you his LOVE...Accept Jesus as your lord and savior and give up this futile attempt to judge others!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi Gaia,

Perhaps we all need to ask disgruntled JR about the dependence of the oil companies on aluminum based technologies these days and how these new materials have pathways into the environment?

What is the exact impact of big oil on CO2, arctic warming, strange weather patterns, habitat destruction of species, and so on and so on?

Keep asking every day.

God knows and he wants the information shared.

Jim serves at the right hand of God, as did Jesus and several others right here, and JR at the right hand of Satan, Rothchilds, Bush, and so on and so on. Always they use this divide and conquor routine, but now in their embittered hopelessness. Attempting provocation and melt down, in their ever weakened hopes that their evil Phoenix Bird may reappear. Their words continue to fall onto the scrapheap of human sin, though their indignant print words grow larger, their screeds less believable, and their desperation more intense.

Meanwhile, Our words remain the very same size as always, but their measured wisdom stands larger than the most towering of city church steeple or mountain. In angst they reply, sinking deeper into their morass.

Whilst their false punditry wanders weak and weary in the deep fogs of the "moral
values debate," we pay some attention to what is going on and broadcast the truth on global warming to the world by hundreds of thousands of times their simpleton's words here. Their Ren and Stempe charades fall on deaf ears here and that shall follow them through all the days of their lives. They shall always be known by their fruits. (Matthew)

They have become so pitiful in their disgrace that it is damned near silly to behold their fall from Grace. Repent JR, lest thy not be saved. Only to suffer eternal despair.

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

Why not all of talk about Jesus and how his LOVE can save us all!

[whitemajikman]

Ultimately revealing is the fact you, Yaakity-yaak, are apparently excusing the “darkness (hate)” that quite readily pervades the oratories continuously offered by you and especially Mr. “fag boy” Reynolds. The two of you are obviously little more than crybabies, whose signature “screaming” with over-sized text is merely attention-grabbing desperation. I do not agree with a lot of what I have seen on this message board and others. However, if you honestly think that “the rest of us” are swallowing your attempts to shift the focus away from your own vitriol, somehow elevating yourselves in the process, you have succeeded only in “identifying” your opportunistic idiocy. Save your whimpering rationalizations and mind control experiments for your vacuous disciples.

The Shadow knows more than you care to believe...

The Shadow knows nothing,but hypocricy .............

and thats a fact........

[gaiacomm]

Why not all of talk about Jesus and how his LOVE can save us all!


Ask jesus to come into your life and free you from your pain!

[jayreynolds]

Exodus 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
Jim Phelps, and all the rest of you chemtrails cultists, the LORD hates a false witness who pours out lies.
How will it feel to FACE GOD, knowing the lies you have told to promote the "chemtrails" hoax?
No squishy-squashy answers then. No beating around the bush. HE knows.
What say you?

Jim Phelps, you haven't answered the question.

Also, you blaspheme when you claim to sit at the right hand of God.
You do not.
Jesus sits at the right hand of God, therefore God sits at the left hand of Jesus.

Do you dare to say you come between God and Jesus?
==================================
Matthew20:20 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping [him], and desiring a certain thing of him.

20:21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.

20:22
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

[whitemajikman]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1100731810050&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795

Enjoy the Arctic while it's still here

The next time you step outside, take a good long look around. What you will see is how the Arctic has looked for at least 10,000 years and you may be among the last of the many generations who can say they have seen it that way.

By 2100, trees will grow as far north as Kugluktuk, Rankin Inlet, Coral Harbour and even Cambridge Bay. Most of the polar bears left on the planet will be in zoos: there won't be enough sea ice for them to travel and hunt on. And in the summer, there will be little sea-ice anywhere, except, perhaps, around the North Pole. Ringed seal and walrus, now plentiful, may become endangered species. Lemmings, snowy owls and arctic foxes may vanish from lands where they now flourish.

At the same time, structures built on steel piles driven into the rock-like hardness of the permafrost will sag and fall apart. Cancers, cataracts and immune system diseases caused by ultraviolet radiation will proliferate among Arctic peoples. Giant tankers and cargo ships will steam through the ice-free waters of the Northwest Passage, while drilling platforms will dot the ice-free waters around the High Arctic islands, sucking natural gas from beneath the floor of the Arctic ocean.

We now know all this because of a gargantuan report on global warming and the Arctic commissioned by the eight-nation Arctic Council. It represents four years of work by nearly 300 scientists, assisted by the knowledge of many hundreds of aboriginal people throughout the circumpolar world.

Their efforts are aimed at reaching as many people as possible: especially political leaders in the eight Arctic nations and the ordinary people who elect them.

Though a 140-page plain-language summary of the report, called Impacts of a Warming Arctic: Arctic Climate Impact Assessment, was officially unveiled this week in Reykjavik, Iceland, much of its message is not new.

But even if many parts of the report are not entirely new, its effect is startling. Humans are entering a period of rapid climate change the likes of which have not been seen for at least 10,000 years. So far, we're not even close to figuring out how to do what it will take to slow it down. And our political leaders are totally unprepared.

But what's worse is that the Nunavut government has no clear energy policy, and little or no capacity to develop one and carry it out. Global warming, after all, is an energy issue. It's about the burning of oil, gas and coal to heat buildings, create electricity and power the engines of motor vehicles. That is what is responsible for the greenhouse effect that causes global warming.

The federal government is also badly unprepared. As officials with Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami pointed out this week, Canada has no national climate change assessment office.

Another area where Canada is failing to pull its weight is in support for Arctic science. Canada claims stewardship over one-third of the planet's Arctic region.

But most of the scientific work that you will find in the ACIA report has been done by researchers from the U.S., Scandinavia, and the U.K. Even this week, frustrated Canadian scientists who made it to Reykjavik were complaining about Canada's lack of support for their vital work.

Not so long ago, global warming was an issue surrounded by legitimate doubt. But now the evidence is in and the jury has declared its verdict. There is no longer any doubt.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an excerpt of an editorial from The Nunatsiaq News, Iqaluit, Nunavut


Ok,Wayne.......

why have you posted another post about the obvious.........



I have never said that Global warming is not occurring at an alarming rate,because it is......

It's Naturally occurring and has had some help from pollution........

there is really only one option,one conclusion to this problem....................

and that is to outlaw all types of pollution generating industry.............

now I ask all of you who are frequent poster's on this board what the implications of taking such drastic steps would mean to humanity.........

and how taking those steps would SOLVE the global warming problem.......?

I am listening with open ears and an open mind.........

WMM

[whitemajikman]

Oh and Jim........

While you talk about MOTHER NATURE being God.............

You are trying to spread the message that we must stop Mother Nature.........and her global warming cycle.......

Is this not a hypocritical outlook by you regarding Mother Nature............

and her forces.......

Is it not MAN who wishes to try and be God-like when taking on Mother Nature........?

Or is it that Man wishes to control God.........?

Can God be controlled all of a sudden.......?

try and answer these very Important questions..............

WMM

[gaiacomm]

Ask jesus to come into your life and free you from your pain!



God is LOVE!

Hey JR do you know Christ? You have beaten the chemtrail issue to the ground with your
ranting and name calling...so why not discuss Jesus? Or is that not in your agenda? I think not!

[stuart_allsop]

It is real easy to spot the real persons that serve at the Right Hand of God, because they know the ideals of environmental stewardship, Really? So please would you do us all the service of showing us where it is that Jesus said we should identlify his followers by their "environmental stewardship"?

Actually, I'll save you the trouble, and tell you that Jesus said no such thing. What he DID say about how to identify his followers: (Matthew 16:15) "He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it."

John 8:30 "Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him. To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

John 13:35 "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Galatians 5:22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."


Hmmm.... I didn't notice anything in there about "environmental stewardship", did you?

OOOOPS!


... they always lay the truth right on the table and stand up for right.So what's your excuse then? Are you admitting that you are not a "real persons that serves at the Right Hand of God"?

[stuart_allsop]

For my part, I will face Him with a clear conscience, knowing that I did indeed expose the works of darkness in this chemtrails hoax as he has commanded. I'm not without sin, however, and have never claimed to be a saint. I, too will face God.Amen. Well said, Jay. I agree with every single sord and sentiment.

We will all face God one day, yet none of us has the slightest hope of facing him in the spotlessly clean state that God demands of us, in order to get into heaven. The bar is way, way too high: God demands absolute perfection. Nobody can attain that by themselves. Nobody can clean up their act well enough to earn their way into heaven. No amount of charity or good works can make up for it. You cannot buy a ticket into heaven with any currency at all, since the price is beyond the capability of any human. The price requierd is absolute, total perfection. Do nobody has enough currency to by a ticket.

There is only one way in: The only way you can get a ticket, is if someone else gives you one for free. The only person who CAN give you a free ticket is the guy who did make it in already, the guy who did pay the price for the ticket, due to his absolute total perfection: Jesus Christ. He earned the ticket, and now he can give away free tickets to anyone who wants them.

All you have to do is ask.

[stuart_allsop]

I see that we all are discussing GOD in our words with each other. That is a good sign for all of us even for JR and company...God is important to each of us....
It certainly is a refreshing and very welcome change, isn't it?


And your Jesus died on the cross to save all of our sins and forgave us even if we do no believe yet.Close, but not quite. Yes, he died for the forgiveness of our sins, since that was the required price. He paid it so that you don't have to. But he didn't do it for those that "do no believe yet". He did it ONLY for those who do believe. The gift that He gives us is there, just waiting for us all, any time that we want it. But in order to get the benefit of the gift, you have to actually accept it. Until you do, it's like a guy who wins a brand new Ferrari in a raffle. He goes along to the Ferrari dealer, and stands there all day, admiring the car from all angles, thinking how fantiastic it would be drive, thinking what a great image he'd set if his neighbors saw him in it. He stands there dreamiing, and looking at it, and the car dealer is standing right next to him, holding out the keys for the winer to take.... but he doesn't take them! He just stands there for a while, looking and drooling, then walks home. He comes past again a few days later, and the car dealer rushes out greet him with the keys, to offer them again... but the guy ignores him, and walks around the car some more, staring at it... then goes home, still thinking how wonderful it would feel to sit in that seat, fire up the engine, and drive...

The car is HIS, he has a right to take it, he can have it ANY TIME HE WANTS!!!! but until he ACCEPTS the gift, until he reaches out his hand and takes the keys, it isn't his, he does not own it, and he cannot drive it.

The same with Jesus. He's got the keys ready for you, and he's dying to give them to you (literally), but until you take them the gift is not yours. And if you DON'T accept the keys, then you never do get to drive the car.

If you want the gift, YOU have to take it. Nobody else can take it for you. It's up to you.



God will wait!Yes He will! He'll wait right up until the very instant that you die... but after that, it's too late. So as long as you think you can beat the odds, and get in that sincere final prayer a few seconds before the curtain comes down and the lights go out, then you are absolutely right: God will wait.

God can wait as long as He wants, all through eterntiy.

But YOU can't.

But why would YOU want to wait? Can you be CERTAIN that you'll have the opportunity to accept the gift before you die? What if you step out in the street tomorrow, and a truck hits you? Sorry, to late! Game's over. You lost. FOREVER!

Don't wait.

God can afford to wait, but YOU can't...


Maybe we can all share and discuss what Christ or what our God means to us and how we can help each other understand the LOVE that is waiting for us allExcellent idea!

"I am a Nomad in the desert looking for water because I thirst...what about you?And I can lead you to Oasis! :) I know where it is, and there is PLENTY of cool, refreshing water.

Great analogy! Jesus even said that he'll give rivers of living water to anyone that wants it.

All you have to do is ask....

[halva]

Why not all of talk about Jesus and how his LOVE can save us all!

In other words:

JESUS IS THE ANSWER!!!!

So
WHAT'S THE QUESTION???

[halva]

I will face Him with a clear conscience, knowing that I did indeed expose the works of darkness in this chemtrails hoax as he has commanded. I'm not without sin, however, and have never claimed to be a saint. I, too will face God.

Raynolds it is my belief that well before you face the judgement of God you will also face the judgement of your fellow men.

[gaiacomm]

It certainly is a refreshing and very welcome change, isn't it?

Close, but not quite. Yes, he died for the forgiveness of our sins, since that was the required price. He paid it so that you don't have to. But he didn't do it for those that "do no believe yet". He did it ONLY for those who do believe. The gift that He gives us is there, just waiting for us all, any time that we want it. But in order to get the benefit of the gift, you have to actually accept it. Until you do, it's like a guy who wins a brand new Ferrari in a raffle. He goes along to the Ferrari dealer, and stands there all day, admiring the car from all angles, thinking how fantiastic it would be drive, thinking what a great image he'd set if his neighbors saw him in it. He stands there dreamiing, and looking at it, and the car dealer is standing right next to him, holding out the keys for the winer to take.... but he doesn't take them! He just stands there for a while, looking and drooling, then walks home. He comes past again a few days later, and the car dealer rushes out greet him with the keys, to offer them again... but the guy ignores him, and walks around the car some more, staring at it... then goes home, still thinking how wonderful it would feel to sit in that seat, fire up the engine, and drive...

The car is HIS, he has a right to take it, he can have it ANY TIME HE WANTS!!!! but until he ACCEPTS the gift, until he reaches out his hand and takes the keys, it isn't his, he does not own it, and he cannot drive it.

The same with Jesus. He's got the keys ready for you, and he's dying to give them to you (literally), but until you take them the gift is not yours. And if you DON'T accept the keys, then you never do get to drive the car.

If you want the gift, YOU have to take it. Nobody else can take it for you. It's up to you.


Yes He will! He'll wait right up until the very instant that you die... but after that, it's too late. So as long as you think you can beat the odds, and get in that sincere final prayer a few seconds before the curtain comes down and the lights go out, then you are absolutely right: God will wait.

God can wait as long as He wants, all through eterntiy.

But YOU can't.

But why would YOU want to wait? Can you be CERTAIN that you'll have the opportunity to accept the gift before you die? What if you step out in the street tomorrow, and a truck hits you? Sorry, to late! Game's over. You lost. FOREVER!

Don't wait.

God can afford to wait, but YOU can't...

Excellent idea!

"I am a Nomad in the desert looking for water because I thirst...what about you?And I can lead you to Oasis! :) I know where it is, and there is PLENTY of cool, refreshing water.

Great analogy! Jesus even said that he'll give rivers of living water to anyone that wants it.

All you have to do is ask....


Thank you for kind words! Now where does one begin?

[gaiacomm]

In other words:

JESUS IS THE ANSWER!!!!

So
WHAT'S THE QUESTION???


Where do we begin?

[gaiacomm]

I thrist for truth...so where do I find it?

[halva]

I thrist for truth...so where do I find it?

"In the twenty-fifth year of my age
I find myself to be a dromedary
That has run short of water between
One oasis and the next mirage
And having despaired of ever
Making my obsessions intelligible
I am content at last to be
The sole clerk of my metamorphoses."

From the poems of Ern Malley
http://www.ernmalley.com/

[jayreynolds]

Raynolds it is my belief that well before you face the judgement of God you will also face the judgement of your fellow men.

I've been judged before, Wayne, and plenty. Those judgements don't really matter.

You judged that I won the debate, and moved to first stifle me, then to drown me out with a torrent of spam. I am still here. Deborah moved to cut off my tongue by a campaign to have my website eliminated. For her pains she got two more copies of the website put online. In the beginning, I was the sole debunker of chemtrails, back in 1999. Now there are legions of those who take my stand.

Of the thousands who have registered as chemmies on the various message boards, less than 1% have remained. I'd say they have already judged you, Wayne, and found your people lacking...........

But what of you Deborah and Jim Phelps, why do you find it so hard to declare before us whether, or not, you have clear consciences regarding your actions promoting the chemtrails hoax? Your collective silence echoes loudly, begging for a word to fill the void.

[halva]

"Raynolds seems to share with many of his young, ideological colleagues what may be called a Galileo complex - an emotional identification with a martyred and shunned voice-in-the-wilderness who eventually attains redemption for his heroic, lonely battle. It is a mindset that the true believers in the House share with extremists everywhere."

(from 'The Heat is On' by Ross Gelbspan, p.67)

The original text has 'Rohrabacher' in the place of 'Raynolds', but it must be a misprint.

[halva]

Raynolds anybody who attempts to silence you is merely trying to secure a habitable planet for their children and grandchildren.

I will not say 'and for yours too'. That is irrelevant.

Working unintentionally for the survival of you and your seed is merely one of the regrettable possible consequences of working against you politically.

[gaiacomm]

"In the twenty-fifth year of my age
I find myself to be a dromedary
That has run short of water between
One oasis and the next mirage
And having despaired of ever
Making my obsessions intelligible
I am content at last to be
The sole clerk of my metamorphoses."

From the poems of Ern Malley
http://www.ernmalley.com/


Thank you! But I am still thristy!

[gaiacomm]

I've been judged before, Wayne, and plenty. Those judgements don't really matter.

You judged that I won the debate, and moved to first stifle me, then to drown me out with a torrent of spam. I am still here. Deborah moved to cut off my tongue by a campaign to have my website eliminated. For her pains she got two more copies of the website put online. In the beginning, I was the sole debunker of chemtrails, back in 1999. Now there are legions of those who take my stand.

Of the thousands who have registered as chemmies on the various message boards, less than 1% have remained. I'd say they have already judged you, Wayne, and found your people lacking...........

But what of you Deborah Stark and Jim Phelps, why do you find it so hard to declare before us whether, or not, you have clear consciences regarding your actions promoting the chemtrails hoax? Your collective silence echoes loudly, begging for a word to fill the void.


JR, God Loves you and Karen!

[halva]

On Tony Blair:


I really don't give a rat's ass what that limey believes., doesn't affect me at all. Let him bankrupt his country for all I care.

That Limey!

With the Pope and George Bush on one side and Queen Elizabeth on the other, all competing for the tormented soul of this ex-suburban rock-n-roll singer.

[gaiacomm]

Yes, but now Bush has a new House Monkey at the State Department. I see that Michael Jackson started a trend with his!

[gaiacomm]

American POW’s To Be Executed
Nov 18, 2004
By Muhammad Abu Nasr, Free Arab Voice and Omar Al-Faris, JUS

The American Washington Post newspaper in its Wednesday, November 17th 2004 issue carried remarks of Shaykh ‘Abdallah al-Janabi, the Chairman of the Consultative Council of the Mujahideen of Fallujah, an 18-member council of religious leaders, tribal chiefs and Baath Party members.

Speaking in an undamaged house in the an-Nazal neighborhood of Fallujah on Monday, al-Janabi was flanked by several bodyguards and wore an explosive vest, with wires that would detonate it dangling a few inches apart. A bodyguard said the religious leader preferred martyrdom to “dying on his bed like a camel,” according to the American newspaper’s report.

The Washington Post quoted al-Janabi as saying: “The Americans have opened the gates of hell, the Battle of Fallujah is the beginning of other battles.” He noted that, “We still have our strength, our force and ammunition, and the battle is long, very long. And we will turn Iraq into one big Fallujah.”

“It is only the beginning, from a military point of view,” said al-Janabi. “We have succeeded in drawing them into the quagmire of Fallujah, into the alleys and small pathways. They have fallen into the trap of explosive charges, land mines and, now, the defenders’ short supply lines inside the neighborhoods.”

“The cause will not die if the individuals die,” al-Janabi said. “It will survive until the last Iraqi holy warrior dies or runs out of bullets.” He added, “If the military leaders agree on another area where we will inflict more losses on them, then we will.”

Al-Janabi mocked the statement of Qasim Dawud, a senior Iraqi puppet official who on Saturday told reporters that al-Janabi and another Mujahideen, ‘Umar Hadid, were “cowards” who had fled the city before the offensive. The Washington Post described Hadid as a ranking figure in the group now known as al-Qaida in Iraq, which it said is headed by the Jordanian militant Abu Mus‘ab az-Zarqawi, whom the US government frequently blamed for virtually all the Mujahideen activity in the country.

“I am here,” al-Janabi said. “You can see me. And if you wait for a while, you can see ‘Umar Hadid. He is still in the city,” he said according to the Washington Post report.

Army Of Muhammad Pledge To Execute American Prisoners

In a dispatch posted at 6:50pm Mecca time Wednesday Mafkarat al-Islam posted a communiqué issued by the command of the Army of Muhammad in which the organization pledged to kill what it called the “pharaohs of Iraq” in reference to the likes of US installed puppet prime-minister Iyyad ‘Allawi, Qasim Dawud, Salah an-Naqib, and Hazim ash-Sha‘lan and pledging also to kill the American prisoners they are holding.

The Army of Muhammad pledged in its communiqué to pursue the US military everywhere in Iraq and to take their operations into the heart of Baghdad after Fallujah, a battle that had pulled off masks that had not been expected.

The communiqué said that Fallujah was the first real battle in Iraq and that the number of fighters was growing – where there had been ten there were now a hundred, where there were a hundred there are now a thousand.

The communiqué said that the organization would be publicly slitting the throats of the American troops it holds captive.

Earlier the Army of Muhammad issued statements quoted by satellite TV networks, saying that it had captured a number of US prisoners. Mafkarat al-Islam has also reported that the Mujahideen in Fallujah is holding a number of US and British prisoners. A film of 36 American prisoners was turned over to al-Jazeera and al-‘Arabiyah satellite TV companies, who refused to broadcast it. The US has so far refused to acknowledge that the Mujahideen in Fallujah holds American prisoners.

According to a report issued by the Advisory Council of Fallujah Mujahideen, there are currently 136 Americans, 15 Brits and 123 Allawi Army prisoners of war.

[halva]

Greens declare war on Blair for 'failures' over climate change
By Marie Woolf, Chief Political Correspondent
19 November 2004


Britain's leading environmental organisation withdrew support from Tony Blair yesterday over climate change, saying he could not be trusted to reduce global warming.

Greenpeace expressed doubts about the Prime Minister's sincerity over tackling climate change, adding that his record on tackling carbon emissions was "pathetic".

The attack by Stephen Tindale, the Labour-supporting head of Greenpeace, came as Mr Blair and Jacques Chirac, the French President, said that climate change would be "one of the two priorities" for the G8 group of leading industrialised nations when Britain assumed the presidency next year. The Prime Minister has made tackling global warming a key theme of his tenure in office.

Leading environmentalists joined forces yesterday to criticise Mr Blair's record, accusing him of spin while failing to support measures to reduce carbon emissions from cars and planes.

They also accused him of not doing enough to promote energy efficiency measures in the building of new homes.

Mr Tindale, a former government special adviser on the environment who played a key role in framing Labour's policy on climate change, said Mr Blair "cannot be trusted to resist industry lobbying" from car manufacturers and airlines. "On the climate change issues we have been very supportive of the Government. We have been essentially trying to work with them to promote renewable energy. But we have basically taken a conscious decision that he [Tony Blair] can no longer be given the benefit of the doubt," he said. "So far Blair's record on climate change is almost entirely a record of fine words and no action. His repeated failures on this issue is undermining his diplomatic efforts."

Greenpeace's change of policy follows a series of meetings within the organisation which one figure said amounted to "a declaration of war". The decision to criticise Mr Blair openly over climate change follows the Government's attempts to block energy-efficiency targets in social housing which would help prevent global warming and save lives and to dilute emissions trading targets.

It also follows Downing Street's decision to "allow industry to emit as much carbon in future as it has in the past".

Mr Tindale, Greenpeace's executive director, said Mr Blair's reheated "tub-thumping speeches" on the world stage were undermined by his "failed" record in Britain.

"Emissions of carbon dioxide have actually increased since Blair became Prime Minister. So much for leadership. Through all this, Blair kept on giving the speeches and we kept on trying to believe him, perhaps for too long. We are now going to mobilise a lot more public pressure against them.''

He said the Prime Minister's "rhetoric" on wanting to tackle climate change bore no relation to his record. World leaders would "laugh at Tony Blair" because of his dismal record on reducing carbon emissions at home, Mr Tindale said. "They have completely failed on road transport and failed to control emissions from air transport. They are in complete denial."

Carbon emissions have been increasing and experts have warned Britain will not meet its target of reducing them by 20 per cent below 1990 levels by 2010. There are also fears that the Government may try to water down the target in the next few weeks when it publishes its "review" of its policy.

Tony Juniper, the executive director of Friends of the Earth, said there was a gaping "gap" between the Prime Minister's rhetoric and leadership on the world stage and his record in the UK. "The leadership position of this country is jeopardised by the position at home," he said.

"The credibility of this country on climate change is essentially derived from the policy choices taken by the Conservatives in the 1980s when they decided to shift from coal to gas generation."

Charles Secrett, the former head of Friends of the Earth who now heads ACT, a sustainable development campaign group, said Mr Blair was "all talk and no action".

"Blair thinks he can get away with boosting his green credentials by making a big speech every year on climate change," he said. "It's always about the grand scenario and when it comes to putting him own house in order it is always business as usual."

Britain's environmental leaders called on Mr Blair last night to restore their trust by pledging a crackdown on car and plane emissions and the introduction of tax incentives to go green, when he publishes his climate change review.

Mr Juniper said: "We need to shift away from road building and encouraging car use. We need to bring in fiscal incentives to switch away from coal to renewable energy."

Mr Tindale, who was aspecial adviser to Michael Meacher, a former environment minister, said Mr Blair "cannot be trusted to stand up to the motoring lobby, the airlines or even the Treasury". He added: "Fancy speeches are not enough * tackling climate change requires radical action. All the evidence suggests that Blair will not provide it."

Last night, Downing Street strongly disputed Greenpeace's analysis. A spokeswoman said: "Climate change is one of the two main priorities for our presidency of the G8, which begins in January."

She added: "We are on target for our greenhouse gas obligations under the Kyoto treaty."'
20 November 2004 19:09

[gaiacomm]

In Baghdad: Fierce Daylong Battle Al-Karakh, Attacks Throughout City
Nov 19, 2004
By Muhammad Abu Nasr, Free Arab Voice; Edited By JUS

Violent clashes broke out at dawn yesterday between the Iraqi Resistance forces and US forces operating in collaboration with Allawi troops around Baghdad. The fighting erupted in Baghdad’s al-Karakh district at about 5am where it extended to the Vanguards’ Square [Sahat at-Tala’i‘], al-Mushahadah and al-Fahhamah. The correspondent of Mafkarat al-Islam reported that the Americans together with Allawi “national guard” tried to encircle the area, but the Resistance put up a fierce struggle. Fighting raged until 1pm and left four Allawi Land Cruisers, four Nissan pickups and another truck destroyed.

At midday the Resistance was firing RPG7, C5K, and SPG9 rockets, hurling hand grenades and firing BKC automatic rifles and 60mm mortars rounds. They had destroyed a Bradley armored vehicle and disabled three other armored vehicles. The Resistance shot down an unmanned spy plane, destroyed a Humvee, and disabled an armored vehicle belonging to the Americans.

The Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent reported that 18 American troops were killed in the course of the fighting as well as 27 Allawi troops and 15 collaborating police.

More than thirty Resistance fighters and Iraqi civilians were killed in the fighting, including nine children and three elderly persons as well as several women. In a dispatch posted at 5:37pm Mecca time (6:37pm local time) the correspondent reported that fighting in the area was still under way.

Reports claim that three more US troops were killed in fighting that broke out at about 4:15 Thursday afternoon local time on Vanguards’ Square in the al-Karakh district of Baghdad. That clash left two Bradley armored vehicles disabled after the Resistance opened fire on them with RPG7 and SPG9 rockets.

One collaborator was also killed and another wounded on Hayfa Street when Resistance fighters opened fire with Kalashnikov assault rifles at about 5:30 pm.

Two Resistance Car Bombings Kill US Troops, CIA Agents

An Iraqi Resistance car bomb exploded as a US patrol was stopped near the al-Yarmuk Center in the al-Yarmuk neighborhood of Baghdad at about 1pm yesterday, destroying two Humvees and disabling a third, and also disabling a Bradley armored vehicle and damaging four civilian cars. Eight US troops were reported killed and two civilians were also reported killed, with four others injured in the blast.

At 6pm Thursday evening, a car bomb exploded as a US military column was passing along on Airport Road between the neighborhoods of al-‘Amiriyah and al-Furat in southern Baghdad. The blast destroyed two GMC cars and a Humvee and killed five American intelligence agents and four US troops. Also destroyed was a white American-made Celebrity car carrying two civilians.

The Resistance has frequently warned Iraqi citizens against getting near US patrols because they are subject to ambush or car bombing. In these cases, the Resistance had posted warnings on local mosques along the road and on residential buildings.

Four Killed In Ambush In Al-Mahmudiyah

Four US troops were killed and two others wounded when an Iraqi Resistance bomb exploded by a US Humvee in al-Mahmudiyah south of Baghdad at about 10:30am yesterday. The blast killed four American soldiers and two others were seriously injured. All that was left of the Humvee was an inverted burning skeleton, as the force of the blast flipped the vehicle over.

Bomb In Al-Janabiyin Area Destroys APC

Five US troops were killed in the al-Janabiyin area of Baghdad, when an Iraqi Resistance bomb exploded at about 3:30pm Thursday afternoon, destroying an armored personnel carrier.

Nine US Troops Killed In Al-Ghazaliyah Ambush

Iraqi Resistance forces attacked US forces on the highway in al-Ghazaliyah at about 9:30am Thursday morning, destroying two Humvees and a supply truck and disabling a Bradley armored vehicle. Nine US troops were reported killed and more than six others wounded in the attack. Two Resistance fighters were martyred and seven others wounded.

More Attacks In ad-Durah

Starting a noon yesterday, several resistance attacks wer carried out in ad-Durah, beginning when a bomb disabled a US Humvee in the ‘Arab Jabbur area of ad-Durah, on the southern outskirts of Baghdad. At approximately 1 pm, Resistance forces destroyed an armored vehicle with an RPG7 rocket, killing six US troops and another bomb exploded under a US patrol in the al-Bu ‘Isa area of ad-Durah, destroying a Humvee, killing two and wounding two more US troops about half an hour later. At about 4:30pm, a bomb exploded under a US patrol in the Hur Rajab area of ad-Durah in the southern suburbs of Baghdad, disabling a Bradley armored vehicle and killing one US soldier.

Fighting Rages In Abu Ghurayb

Iraqi Resistance forces attacked a US patrol in the Kharnabat area of Abu Ghurayb as it was on its way to Fallujah at 4:30pm Thursday afternoon. Resistance fighters opened fire with RPG7 rockets and BKC automatic weapons, destroying a Humvee and two US military trucks and killing six US soldiers.

At about 7:30am yesterday, fighting was reported in the Shayhah area of Abu Ghurayb. Iraqi Resistance forces detonated bombs under the American troops and then opened fire with RPG7 rockets and BKC automatic weapons, leaving a reported 12 Marines dead. Two members of the Resistance were wounded, an eye witness saying that one of them died after being taken to the hospital.

Clashes In Al-‘Amil Neighborhood

At 8:15am clashes broke out on Airport Road in the al-‘Amil neighborhood, leaving four US troops dead after their Humvee was destroyed by an RPG7 rocket. Two trucks were also destroyed in the attack.

Three Killed In Ar-Ridwaniyah

An Iraqi Resistance bomb destroyed a Bradley armored vehicle in the ar-Rashid area of ar-Ridwaniyah at about 9am. A gun battle also erupted and three US troops were reportedly killed.

Four Allawi Troops Killed In Ambush In As-Suwayrah

Iraqi Resistance bombs exploded under a Nissan pickup carrying Allawi troops in the as-Suwayrah area south of Baghdad at 2:15pm yesterday.. The pickup was destroyed and four were killed, with two others wounded.

[Yaak]

Wayne Hall, Jim Phelps and Company,

You appear to believe that you have a worthy cause. Wonderful! I am not your opposition. I believe in your cause. That is why I find it imperative that you stop lying and cease your deceptions. Your dishonesty causes most of what you say to be discredited without even being considered. Many of your information sources lack integrity.

If you are unable to distinguish between fact and fiction, theory and reality, you will do more good by remaining silent. I wonder if any of you actually have the moral or intellectual mettle to recognize the differences. You will have little or no success if you insist on attaching your cause to a political agenda.

You have the potential for great success if only you will come out into the light to do your work. Until then, people such as JR and Company, people of truth, imperfect as they may be, will, nonetheless, hound you to the gates of Hell.

[whitemajikman]

Yaak you know they won't listen to reason , J.R. has tried on many occasions as have all of us,The fundemental problem here isn't about a hoax or conspiracy theory or even global warming.

We have been branded as the enemy by these individuals simply because we disagree,this has more to do with their pride and their need to come out of all this as "WINNERS".

What they haven't yet realized is that there are no winners in regards to the Global Warming issue,or in propagating the chemtrail hoax.

They haven't realized yet just what their blind speculations regarding contrails and Air pollution have caused to many an observer.

Nor do they wish to acknowledge that in some ways they have done more harm than good,in some instances causing mass panic and confusion of exactly what is being observed.

All of their blind speculation and conspiracy theory has led them to believe that they are somehow enlightened to the realities of the world and that the rest of us have no clue of what reality is.

and until they can consider us friends with insight instead of enemies with dis-information no real enlightenment can take place.

And I think that is the REAL reality of the situation.


WMM

[whitemajikman]

Now for REALITY..........

Implementing the Kyoto Protocol Would Reduce Economic Prosperity
and Cost US Jobs



Loss of 2.4 Million Jobs

Loss of $300 billion in US GDP annually, an average loss of $2700 per household

Loss of competitiveness to developing countries which refuse to commit to emission targets



Energy Prices Would Double for Businesses




The Cost of Basic Necessities Would Rise




Every State Would Suffer Large Manufacturing Job Losses, Even Non-Energy-Intensive States

The Kyoto Protocol is an international treaty that would commit the U.S. and other industrialized countries to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by late next decade. Developing countries would not commit to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. Without the participation of the developing countries, the impact on global greenhouse gas emissions from implementing the Kyoto Protocol would be small.

The Kyoto Protocol Would Have Little Impact on
Global Carbon Emissions from Man-Made Sources



The US faces a daunting task: reducing greenhouse gas emissions to 93% of the 1990 level. Today, carbon emissions exceed the target by 16%; by 2010 - 37% or more.


The Kyoto Protocol's Call for Near-Term Action Costs US Jobs
Economists at academic institutions and independent firms, including WEFA, have helped define climate policy options and their likely costs for more than a decade. All of their studies estimated high costs at both the national and individual state levels - carbon limits, the economy and energy - use are expected to grow steadily. Reducing energy-use to achieve carbon emission reductions to or below 1990 levels within 10-12 years requires sending very powerful price signals through the economy. However, these powerful price signals, implementing and adding permit fees or taxes to energy prices, result in: premature retirement of capital stock, a decline in GDP, a rise in unemployment, less capital for business investments, and less disposable household income. The result is a picture of a less prosperous America.

A Better Strategy:
Promote Technological Progress and Global Participation
WEFA believes the better climate strategy would be to match policy actions to an evolving understanding of climate science, as global warming is likely to be gradual and limited to only a small change in average global temperature. Measures consistent with this approach would be:

Increase investments in technology and gradually replace existing capital stock.

Encourage voluntary actions to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Insist that developing countries meaningfully participate.


WMM

[gaiacomm]

Blah....Blah....Blah........

[Yaak]

They haven't realized yet just what their blind speculations regarding contrails and Air pollution have caused to many an observer.

Nor do they wish to acknowledge that in some ways they have done more harm than good,in some instances causing mass panic and confusion of exactly what is being observed.




Right. They are detracters. The real issues and problems get ignored, because these issues and problems have become associated with hoaxers and kooks.

[foot_soldier]

U.S. Department of Transportation
CENTER FOR CLIMATE CHANGE and ENVIRONMENTAL FORECASTING
http://climate.volpe.dot.gov/about.html

About the Center

History

The prospect of global warming and increased climate variability has become a major policy issue during the last decade. The transportation sector is currently responsible for approximately 27% of greenhouse gas emissions in the United States and is expected to be one of the fastest growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions in the foreseeable future, due to increased demand for motor gasoline, jet fuel, and diesel fuel. In May 1999, DOT announced the formation of its Center for Climate Change and Environmental Forecasting to address issues associated with climate change and variability.

Mission

The Center is the focal point in the DOT of technical expertise on transportation and climate change. Through strategic research, policy analysis, partnerships and outreach, the Center creates comprehensive and multi-modal approaches to reduce transportation-related greenhouse gases and to mitigate the effects of global climate change on the transportation network.....

***

Environment Canada
CLIMATE CHANGE: TRANSPORTATION
http://www.ec.gc.ca/transport/climatechange.htm

A natural system known as the "greenhouse effect" regulates the temperature on earth. Human activities have the potential to disrupt the balance of this system. As human societies adopt increasingly sophisticated and mechanized lifestyles, the amounts of heat-trapping, or "green house", gases in the atmosphere have been increased.

By increasing the amount of these gases, humankind has enhanced the warming capability of the natural greenhouse effect. It is the human-induced enhanced greenhouse effect that causes environmental concern. It has the potential to warm the planet at a rate that has never been experienced in human history.

The transportation sector contributes to about 25% of total greenhouse gas emissions and 47% of the carbon dioxide emissions produced in Canada.

The Government of Canada Action Plan 2000 on Climate Change aims to reduce Canada's greenhouse gas emissions.....

***

UK Department for Transport
THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE TRANSPORT NETWORK
http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_about/documents/page/dft_about_032280.hcsp

The UK's changing climate has important consequences for transport. These include the increased risk of flooding on our rail and road networks, damage to rail tracks and road surfaces in extreme weather conditions and, in the long term, potential damage to earthworks for embankments and bridges.

This page brings together reports and information concerning the likely impacts of climate change on the transport network so that transport practitioners are better equipped to assess the risks of climate change and adapt their activities accordingly.....

***

Eldis: Corporate Social Responsibility
TOURISM and CLIMATE CHANGE
http://www.eldis.org/csr/cliamtechangeandtourism.htm

This page provides resources that discuss the potential impacts of climate change on the tourism industry, and that of aviation emissions on climate change. The tourism industry has begun to consider the possible negative impacts that environmental change may bring, but has yet to address its own contribution to the causes of global warming.....

The Impact of Transportation on Climate Change
Budget 2003 and Aviation (UK)
Emissions of aviation industry unsustainable and unacceptable
Environmental Audit Committee / Environmental Audit Committee, UK Parliament, 2003

This paper responds to the March 2003 discussion document released by the UK Treasury and the Department for Transport (DfT) entitled Aviation and the Environment: Using Economic Instruments. This sets out the Government's objectives for aviation, and its approach to using economic instruments.....

[halva]

Of the thousands who have registered as chemmies on the various message boards, less than 1% have remained.


Raynolds, that means that in a little while you are going to have more than one hundred times your present number of enemies.

Don't you think you should take my advice and disappear now while you still have time?

[jayreynolds]

Of the thousands who have registered as chemmies on the various message boards, less than 1% have remained.


Raynolds, that means that in a little while you are going to have more than one hundred times your present number of enemies.

Don't you think you should take my advice and disappear now while you still have time?

Huh?
Dumbass.
Been hitting the Ouzo pretty hard, eh, Wayne?
Either you have gone over the edge, or your logic loop got twisted.
ha!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hummm..... there are the uncivilized among us--promoters of inequality.

We can cure global warming in a flash with nuclear winter. Same theories as chemtrail science methods, just more intensity.

Nuclear winter regrows the ice caps rapidly and the carbon sink is restored. All the acids that absorb the IR getting pulled from the skies quickly as well.

And, we can even deal with the pestilence of relgion that seeks inequality, promoting monoply. Since this and a large number of human polluters will be gone, the problems will end.

God has nuclear weapons and he knows how to use them well against those that seek to continually not follow his edicts.

IMHO,
is ( One who rose above the 33 supreme commanders, past the veils of the Mason's evil duality of 66, and one who knows the power of thirds, 99, ----the purest of divine knowledge close to God's 100.)

PS--God always rejects monoply and favors JFK's greater visions for a Camelot round table of equality.
http://rense.com/general59/sdom.htm
"Let my people go from the monopoly."

[halva]

Huh?
Dumbass.
Been hitting the Ouzo pretty hard, eh, Wayne?
Either you have gone over the edge, or your logic loop got twisted.
ha!

I am stone cold sober Raynolds.

[gaiacomm]

Blah....Blah.....Blah.....

[gaiacomm]

Resistance Seizes US Weapons
Nov 20, 2004
By Muhammad Abu Nasr, Free Arab Voice; Edited by JUS

As battles continue to flare all over Baghdad and throughout Iraq, the Brigades of the 1920 Revolution seized US weapons which was shown by Al-Jazeera and denotated bombs on a military patrol in Abu Ghraib.

The Iraqi Resistance organization Brigades of the 1920 Revolution, the military wing of the National Islamic Resistance has announced that it has seized US weapons after an operation it carried out west of Fallujah. In a video broadcast by al-Jazeera satellite TV, some of the American weapons and military materiel that the Brigades were displayed.

Meanwhile, the Brigades of the 1920 Revolution have taken credit for an attack on a US military patrol in the Abu Ghurayb area west of Baghdad. Al-Jazeera TV also broadcast a video showing the detonation of bombs under a US military vehicle directly blasting the American vehicle and setting it ablaze.

IN BAGHDAD

Bomb Ambush In Qanat Al-Jaysh Dad Targets US Supply Convoy

An Iraqi Resistance bomb exploded in the path of a US truck loaded with supplies for the US forces as it drove along the highway passing through Qanat al-Jaysh in Baghdad at 5pm Friday afternoon. The Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent reported that the blast destroyed the truck and killed one American soldier and wounded another.

Resistance Bombing In Ar-Rashidiyah

An Iraqi Resistance bomb exploded under a US patrol in the ar-Rashidiyah area in Baghdad at 4pm Friday, destroying a Humvee and killing three US troops who were aboard it.

Two US Intelligence Officers Killed In Evening Attack In Al-Hurriyah

Iraqi Resistance forces firing RPG7 and RPG8 rockets attacked US forces on the highway in the ad-Dawli‘i area in the al-Hurriyah district of Baghdad at about 6:30pm Friday evening, destroying a command GMC car and a Humvee. The Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent in the area reported that two US troops were killed and two others wounded and that two American intelligence officers in the GMC were also killed in the attack.

Resistance Destroys Two US Supply Trucks In Al-Mushahadah

Iraqi Resistance forces firing RPG7 rockets attacked two US trucks, one of them civilian, the other military, in the al-Mushahadah area north of Baghdad at 11am Friday. The attack destroyed the civilian truck that was loaded with supplies for the US occupation forces and also the military truck that was carrying water for the American troops. Two US troops were killed in the attack.

Rocket Attack Kills Four US Soldiers Friday Afternoon

Iraqi Resistance fighters firing RPG7 rockets attacked a US military truck on the highway in the al-Ghazaliyah area, destroying the truck and killing four US soldiers at 4:30pm.

More Attacks In Abu Ghurayb

At 4:15pm Friday, Iraqi Resistance forces detonated a bomb in the path of a US patrol in the Khan ad-Darri area of Abu Ghurayb, destroying a Humvee and killing one US soldier and wounding three others.

Iraqi Resistance forces firing RPG7 rockets attacked a US convoy in the ash-Shuhada’ neighborhood of Abu Ghurayb west of Baghdad at 8:30am Friday, destroying a civilian fuel tanker and a US military truck and killing three US troops.

Two Iraqi Resistance bombs exploded under a US Bradley vehicle in Abu Ghurayb west of Baghdad, destroying the vehicle and killing four US troops aboard it at 9am Friday morning.

Three Suspected CIA Agents Killed On Airport Road

Iraqi Resistance forces firing RPG7 rockets attacked an armored US GMC vehicle believed to belong to the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) on Airport Rorad, destroying the GMC and killing three CIA agents inside.

Attack Reported In As-Suwayrah

At about 9:45am Friday, Iraqi Resistance forces attacked and destroyed a Humvee in the as-Suwayrah area south of Baghdad, killing two US troops and wounding four others.

Bombing Destroys Armored Vehicle In Salman Bak

An Iraqi Resistance bomb exploded under a US armored vehicle in Salman Bak on Friday, destroying it and inflicting undetermined casualties on the US side.

Resistance Bomb Kills Eight Allawi Policemen

An Iraqi Resistance car bomb exploded by an Iraqi puppet police patrol as it was stopped in the az-Zuyunah district of Baghdad at 10:30am Friday. The correspondent of Mafkarat al-Islam reported that the blast destroyed two puppet police cars and disabled a third in addition to killing eight puppet policemen and wounding nine others. The correspondent noted that the blast also wounded a number of Iraqi passersby.

Resistance Assassinates Two Collaborators

Iraqi Resistance fighters in two incidents followed two lackeys of the US occupation on Friday on Hayfa Street in the al-Karakh district of Baghdad. The first agent of the Americans was assassinated when Resistance forces opened fire on him with Kalashnikov assault rifles at about 9am local time. The second American lackey was gunned down by the Resistance, also with Kalashnikov assault rifles, at 12:30pm.

World Vision Australia Driven Out Of Occupied Iraq

Australia’s last “aid” organization in Iraq, World Vision, has announced that it will close its operations in the country “because it is too dangerous,” according to the director of the organization’s emergency relief operations, Geoff Shepherd.

“The move follows violent activities across Iraq, the death of Margaret Hassan and the previous death of World Vision’s own head of operations in Iraq,” Shepherd said in a statement. World Vision’s representative, a man called Muhammad Hushyar, was shot to death in Mosul “by unknown armed men” at the end of September.

On its website, World Vision describes itself as “an international Christian relief and development organization.” It says that it was founded in 1950 by American missionary Bob Pierce who began his work in the American-occupied sector of Korea during the Korean War of US aggression in 1950-1953. World Vision Australia’s website currently highlights the organization’s efforts in the Sudan, another Arab Islamic country under intense western imperialist and Zionist pressure.

IN AL-LATIFIYAH

Resistance Destroys Two Bradleys In Morning Ambush

At about 10am Friday, Iraqi Resistance forces firing RPG8 rockets clashed with US troops in al-Latifiyah, destroying two Bradley armored vehicles and disabling a third, killing eight US troops.

BOMBARDMENTS FRIDAY

•Iraqi Resistance forces bombarded the US as-Suqur base south of Baghdad at 5am Friday with three Katyusha rockets.

•Iraqi Resistance forces bombarded the headquarters of the US occupation in the Republican Palace compound known to the US invaders as the “green zone” at 7:30am local time with two Grad rockets.

•Iraqi Resistance forces bombarded the US al-Bakr military base in Balad north of Baghdad where the puppet so-called “Iraqi national guard” are also based with two Grad rockets at 1:30pm Friday.

•Iraqi Resistance forces bombarded the US as-Suqur base south of Baghdad at 3pm Friday with four Katyusha rockets.

•Iraqi Resistance forces bombarded the headquarters of the US occupation in the Republican Palace compound known to the US invaders as the “green zone” at 4pm local time with six 82mm mortar rounds.

•At about 6:30 Iraqi Resistance forces bombarded the British al-Mahawil bae with nine 82mm mortar rounds.

•At 7 Iraqi Resistance forces bombarded the US airbase at al-Muthanna in Baghdad with three Katyusha rockets.

•At 7:30 Iraqi Resistance forces bombarded the US airbase at al-Muthanna in Baghdad with eight 82mm mortar rounds.

•Iraqi Resistance forces bombarded Saddam International Airport with four 120mm mortar rounds at 8:30.

•At 10:30 Iraqi Resistance forces bombarded Saddam International Airport with two Grad rockets.

[foot_soldier]

21 November 2004
Science wars
The election is over, but the Bush administration's battles with the scientific establishment aren't going away
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2004/11/21/science_wars?pg=full

THE 2004 ELECTION saw an unprecedented political mobilization of America's scientific community. Not only did scientists band together to oppose the reelection of George W. Bush, charging that his administration had systematically abused and manipulated scientific information on a variety of issues and let narrow religious concerns get in the way of potentially life-saving embryonic stem cell research. Scientists also helped fuel the state of California's end run around Bush's restrictive stem cell policy, backing a ballot initiative to invest $3 billion of public funding in the field over 10 years.

In their campaign to unseat Bush, scientists seem to have had limited electoral impact. In the California ballot drive, by contrast, they joined a broad coalition of patients groups and business interests and succeeded beyond their wildest dreams -- with approval of the measure, at 59 percent, running significantly ahead of John Kerry's returns in the state. Looking forward to the next four years, these divergent outcomes suggest a paradoxical result. While stem cell research now seems insulated from political pressures emanating from Washington, scientists could face even greater political difficulties from the administration in other areas.

In late September Robert Walker, former Republican chairman of the House Committee on Science and a Bush campaign representative, noted ominously that the science community could face a "push back at some point in the future" for its actions. Following the election, Bush science adviser John Marburger suggested that partisan attacks during the campaign could lessen support for federal science funding.

But even some who supported Bush's reelection are voicing concerns about the administration's science policies. On Monday, prior to a Senate hearing he convened on Arctic warming, Senator John McCain called the administration's global warming policy "terribly disappointing" in light of the evidence showing human-caused climate change in action. The next round of science wars, it seems, is poised to begin..... (continued)

[foot_soldier]

Cowboy George Struts His Stuff:

21 November 2004
Bush's slapdown for Blair on climate change
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/story.jsp?story=585076

President Bush has reprimanded Tony Blair for sounding the alarm over global warming and pressing for international action to combat it, senior Washington sources say.

They report that the White House has objected to the Prime Minister placing the issue at the top of the agenda when he heads the G8 group of the world's most powerful nations next year, and to the strong tone of his recent speeches warning of climate change.

Mr Blair is widely seen as the leader best placed to bring the President into serious international negotiation on how to tackle the problem, which he has described as "very, very critical indeed".

This follows a U-turn by Greenpeace, which last week withdrew its longstanding support for the Prime Minister's climate policies saying that he "can no longer be given the benefit of the doubt" and "cannot be trusted to resist industry lobbying."

The Government, however, says it is both successfully mobilising international support for Mr Blair's initiatives and making progress on reaching consensus with the United States on "a way forward".

Mr Blair has repeatedly described global warming as "the single biggest long-term issue" facing the world. In a major speech this autumn he added that it was " a challenge so far-reaching in its impact and irreversible in its destructive power, that it alters radically human existence."

The White House said last week that "President Bush strongly opposes any treaty or policy that would cause the loss of a single American job".

This contrasts with Mr Blair's insistence in recent speeches that "it is quite false to suggest there is a trade-off between economic growth and environmental protection", and that tackling climate change "can unleash a new and benign commercial force ... providing jobs, technology spin-offs and new business opportunities as well as protecting the world we live in".

[foot_soldier]

21 November 2004
Group blasts political quizzing of U.S. science-panel nominees
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1101033177268140.xml

The Bush administration's practice of screening some potential government science advisers about their political views is improper, the nation's top science organization says.

In a strongly worded report and public comments last week, members of a National Academies of Science and Engineering panel said quizzing candidates for federal science advisory committees about their voting record or party affiliation or whether they agree with the president's policies is "not relevant" and in some cases may be illegal.

Asking such questions is "no more appropriate . . . than to ask them other personal information that is immaterial, such as hair color or height," the nonpartisan panel's chairman, former U.S. Rep. John Porter, an Illinois Republican, said at a news briefing.

"We believe it is important at this critical time that science and technology advice to the federal government be - and be seen as - impartial and independent," Porter said.

During the past year, scientists, professional organizations and government watchdog groups have vigorously complained about the political vetting of advisory committee nominees. They contend it is part of a pattern by the administration to suppress, distort or manipulate scientific analyses that conflict with President Bush's policies, especially in controversial areas such as climate change and reproductive medicine.

More than 5,000 scientists, including 48 Nobel Prize winners, have signed a letter accusing the Bush administration of undermining the scientific advisory process.

The White House has insisted that there is no attempt to stifle scientific dissent.

"We welcome the [National Academies] report as a useful guide to improving the federal appointment process," Robert Hopkins, a spokesman for Bush science adviser John Marburger, said Friday.

The government regularly asks outside scientists and engineers to serve on committees that advise the White House or federal agencies on technical matters. Appointments may be made by the president, members of his staff or agency administrators.

There are several hundred such committees. The subjects they deal with can be as routine as deciding which research projects deserve to get money or as high-profile as assessing the impact of global warming or why the space shuttle was destroyed.

The committees don't determine policy themselves; rather, they identify issues, gather information and provide recommendations to policy-makers.

In cases where an advisory committee reports directly to the president, Marburger believes "it is appropriate to know people's opinions and perspectives on certain issues" to ensure that committee is diverse and balanced, Hopkins said.

Marburger "has also said there are instances where those types of questions aren't appropriate," Hopkins said. "Whenever it has occurred, if it has occurred, appropriate actions have been taken." He would not elaborate.

Federal law requires that advisory committees' membership reflect a balanced viewpoint and independent judgment. However, a nominee's voting record or political party membership does not necessarily predict his or her stance on a particular issue, the National Academies panel said.

In addition, using an applicant's political affiliation to determine whether the person is worthy to serve on an advisory committee may violate federal law in some cases, the Government Accountability Office has determined.

Science advisory committee nominees ought to be judged only on their professional expertise and personal integrity, the National Academies panel said.

But some interviews have taken a decidedly political bent..... (continued)

[halva]

EXODUS USEh

By William Thomas 11/20/04


Worried Americans seeking safe Canadian haven “should not pack their bags just yet,” Reuters reports from Ottawa. The word from Canada’s capitol is that any US citizens fed up or frightened enough by what many see as a burgeoning police state “will have to stand in line” like any other immigrant applicants from a banana republic.

But at least you’ll be on the safe side of the 49th parallel. Without exception, everyone coming here from the world’s greatest country comments on the huge psychic relief they feel the moment they cross into Canada.

Right now, the wait for acceptance can take more than a year. The application fee alone currently costs $500. Once you are accepted as a “landed immigrant” pending full citizenship, the landing tax is $975. These are Canadian dollars, so hurry while the exchange rate is still in your favor. I mean favour. (And while you’re at it, eh, why not sign up for Convergence Weekly to receive regular articles like this one with news you can trust that matters.)


CANADIAN SEX
“ You just can’t come into Canada and say ‘I’m going to stay here’,” explains an immigration ministry spokeswoman who is most likely an immigrant herself. “There has to be an application. There has to be a reason why the person is coming to Canada.”

Fear works.

Sex can also qualify as a good reason. At least, if commitment and a ring are attached. Marrying a Canadian makes the waiting time much shorter – and virtually automatic. For a Canadian spouse, click here. [link]


Remember though, that many Canadians prefer not to sleep with what we commonly refer to as “the elephant next door”. Even if the SPCA doesn’t get involved, immigration officials take a dim view of “marriages of convenience”. Those who divorce minutes or months after receiving landed immigrant status are likely to lose that status – and be up for the same charges Dubya faces: fraud


CANADIAN DRUGS
Another dizzying difference may light up a hippie resurgence among those who can still figure out which way is north. While still technically as illegal as jaywalking, anyone so inclined can inhale the devil weed here without being put into prison making bluejeans to compete with China’s slave labor camps. But for gosh sakes, don’t tell GW that.

WARNING: This is not an approved job description! Pending Canadian legislation includes gigantic fines and serious jail time for marijuana growers and traffickers. Anyone caught spreading second-hand happy smoke in public will receive a $400 “ticket”. But those sufferers who benefit from the known attributes of medicinal hemp have come to the right place. Click here. [link]


ARGUMENTS AGAINST COMING HERE THAT MAY MAKE YOU WANT TO
There are currently between 600,000 to a million Americans living in a country that prides itself on compassion and compromise, and has so far resisted Washington pressure to send its own citizens to kill other parent’s children in Iraq. While many Americans are nervously talking about relocating to Canada rather than risk living even four more minutes with the Taliban unleashed in the White House, Bush officials and even a disillusioned Democrat activist are telling Reuters they don’t expect a mass exodus soon. No siree.

Freedom to Marry spokesman Evan Wolfson likewise believes that when it comes to actually uprooting their lives, most Americans are full of big talk but will chicken out. It’s just frustrated folks “saying, ‘Canada is on the right track. We’re on the wrong track’,” Wolfson said – enunciating a compelling reason to move here now.


PANIC NOW AND AVOID THE RUSH
Ancient statistics show a decline in US citizens coming to a country with publicly funded “universal healthcare” and stunningly high-levels of personal taxation. The latest US debacle could reverse this trend. A native New Hampshirite married to a Canadian and living by his emotional fingernails in Brooklyn says that in the wake of another engineered election, many Americans now identify more with Canada than their own country.

“I'm not alone,” declared Chris Walsh, “The first thing people said to me when I went to walk my dog in the park this morning was: ‘We’re moving to Canada.’ People are very disillusioned, and Canada is looking pretty good right now.”


A gloating Republican who still has a job and food in the fridge thinks this is hilarious. “Enjoy the Molson’s while you wait an eternity for an imported doctor making the equivalent of minimum wage,” he invited.

This is true – but changing fast. billions of newly earmarked dollars are going to reduce hospital wait times across Canada. [For jobs in Canada click here]

Another Bush-backer cackled: “They can pay high taxes for non-existent health care, non-existent military, and non-existent jobs. So go already…be the first in line!”

This genius forgot to explain why so many Americans are filling prescriptions online, and coming to Canada for flu shots we get for free. We don’t need a bloated, budget-sucking sucking military or weapons industry, nor forced conscription because Canada prefers making friends instead of fanatical, revenge-seeking enemies.

Unlike the world’s biggest bankrupt nation, where millions of jobs are being rushed abroad and foreign creditors and investors are pulling out just as fast Canada’s economy and job prospects among its aging, zero-growth population are among the strongest in the galaxy. Canada’s economy and job prospects among its aging, negative-growth population are among the strongest in the galaxy. So go ahead, be among the first 120,000 new applicants in line.

Canada’s official Citizenship and Immigration websiteis being flooded with a record-smashing number of visits. Stressed-out Americans are not web surfing for fun, observes a Citizenship and Immigration spokeswoman. The “skilled worker online self-assessment pages” are the most hit-on pages by US’ers clicking to see if they meet the minimum selection criteria for immigration, says Maria Iadinardi.
[link]


HOW TO BECOME A CANADIAN, EH
In order to qualify for citizenship, each nail-biting applicant must achieve a requisite number of points based on age and expertise, among other criteria. A job in Canada is essential.

But wait! Getting caught working illegally in Canada will instantly disqualify your immigration application and get you sent back to GW’s loving embrace. Once you’ve found a Canadian employer willing to hire you, getting the permit needed to actually start work takes another four to six months.

Applications to become permanent citizens of Canada take at least a year to process, though some American applicants already in the immigration pipeline are telling me of waits up to 18 months. Becoming a full Canadian citizen takes another three years – down from the five years I had to wait.


DESERTERS WELCOME - MAYBE
Some Americans fleeing to Canada from the US military are attempting to fast-track the process by claiming refugee status. These deserters have already brought their families here in opposition to what they say is “an illegal war” killing kids in Iraq.

“Anybody who enters Canada who claims refugee status will be provided with a work permit,” Iadinardi confirms. “It doesn't matter what country they’re from.”

Refugee cases are handled by special immigration appeals boards, which can take months to decide whether to admit applicants. Thumbs down rulings can be appealed. Politicians opposed to Canada’s fabled leniency complain that some folks ordered deported have been in Canada for 10 years or more, but the Bush junta is expected to apply an even tighter chokehold on Mr. Martin to return American deserters – as well as those seeking refuge from the draft, widely expected to be announced after Bush’s coronation next January.

Jeffry House, a Toronto lawyer representing three US military deserters, says the Immigration and Refugee Board is expected to rule within weeks on whether his clients can base their claim on the illegality of the Iraq war.

Jeremy Hinzman Hinzman’s heresy is based on his refusing to obey orders violating the Geneva Conventions. During epochal hearings beginning Dec. 6, he is going to have to convince Canadian adjudicators already squirming in the sights of squinty-eyed Bush officials.

Best advice from this recovering American to anyone thinking of turning life as they’ve known it upside down – and rejoining the global community in a life without fear: Think it over very very carefully. While an unrecognizably apocalyptic God now rules Amerika, the Goddess’ royal representative still blesses Canada. Come on up while the US side of the border is still open.

Or stay home, turn off your TV, and refuse to cooperate with the goons hammering on your door. After all, there’s always Guantánamo.

[Yaak]

An article by William Thomas, the father of the chemtrail hoax? No thank you. It is pointless to read beyond the author's name.

[jayreynolds]

Well, for once I totally agree with Thomas. By all means, if you don't like the US, then leave.
Perennially long lines at all US embassies worldwide assure your replacement.

As for the much-vaunted "free" medical care, paid for by exorbitant taxes, well, sometimes you don't exactly get what you pay for:
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=pb&id=206
"Total waiting time between referral from a general practitioner and treatment, averaged across all 12 specialties and 10 provinces surveyed, rose from 13.11 weeks in 1999 to 16.2 weeks in 2000-01."

"Despite a very significant improvement, Saskatchewan exhibited the longest total wait, 28.9 weeks."

The first segment of waiting: Between referral by general practitioner and visit to a specialist for consultation -7.2 weeks
[NOTE: No time was given for how long it actually takes to see the general practitioner}

The second segment of waiting: Between the decision by the specialist that treatment is required and treatment -9 weeks

Hey, folks, how much does a cancer grow in 28.9 weeks?
Remmeber, these are averages, some people wait much longer...........

Happy waiting, eh?

[halva]

From "Hearing Before the Subcommittee on Energy and Environment of the Committee on Science, U.S. House of Representatives, Nov. 16, 1995."

Q: Dr. Michaels stated that Dr. John Mitchell's new climate model sugests a new, lower estimate of climate sensitivity to a doubling of C02. Do you agree with that assessment? What are the reasons that the IPCC projections of global warming appear to have come down somewhat?

MAHLMAN: No, I do not agree with Michael's statement. Michael's statement appears to be factually incorrect for two important reasons.

First, Dr. John Mitchell's calculations indicate the measured global warming to date is generally consistent with a climate model that calculates a 2.5-degree-C warming response to a doubled C02, when the best guess value for the current sulfate offset is included.

Second, such a result in itself has nothing to do with a changed sensitivity to doubled C02 in his model, as incorrectly claimed by Michaels.

The sulfate offset of greenhouse-gas-induced warming is the reason for the lowered IPCC warming predictions. Michaels and a few others seem to think that a cooling offset somehow lowers the sensitivity of the climate to increased greenhouse gases. I cannot find any logic in such an assertion."

WH comment: Of course there is a logic. It is the logic of politically inspired bullshit. And the IPCC leaves itself utterly at the mercy of this kind of bullshit through its own habit of trying, for whatever reason, to hide behind its own index finger.

[gaiacomm]

I see that Bush allows monkeys in the State Department now!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Gaia,

For shame. Condi is Madeline Albright Daddy's Zionist in training. Condi is an Israel asset, where Colon failed. She is the Preachers Daughters Yes girl.

http://telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/11/21/
pow21.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/11/21/ixnewstop.html

Powell 'Pushed Out' By Bush
For Seeking To Rein In Israel
By Charles Laurence in New York and Philip Sherwell
The Telegraph - UK
11-21-4

Colin Powell, the outgoing US secretary of state, was given his marching
orders after telling President George W Bush that he wanted greater power to
confront Israel over the stalled Middle East peace process.

Although Mr Powell's departure was announced on November 15, his letter of
resignation was dated November 11, the day he had a meeting with Mr Bush.

According to White House officials, at the meeting Mr Powell was not asked to
stay on and gave no hints that he would do so. Briefing reporters later, he
referred to "fulsome discussions" - diplomatic code for disagreements.

"The clincher came over the Mid-East peace process," said a recently-retired
state department official.

"Powell thought he could use the credit he had banked as the president's
'good cop' in foreign policy to rein in Ariel Sharon [Israel's prime minister] and
get the peace process going. He was wrong."

Bob Woodward, the veteran Washington reporter who was granted unprecedented
access to the first Bush administration for his books Bush At War and Plan Of
Attack, said last week that Mr Powell had been "dreaming" if he thought that he
could stay on.

Vice-president Dick Cheney and his fellow hardliner, John Bolton, an
under-secretary of state to Mr Powell, are both understood to have lobbied Mr Bush to
replace him.

They wanted to make Iran's alleged nuclear bomb aspirations and support for
Islamic terror groups the foreign policy priority for the new administration
and believed that Mr Powell would back away from a confrontational approach.

The two are frustrated that Britain, France and Germany are still seeking a
diplomatic deal with Teheran rather than backing an immediate UN Security
Council resolution condemning Iran and threatening sanctions.

Mr Powell's final pitch to remain in office for at least another year was
made during Tony Blair's visit to Washington nine days ago, The Telegraph has
learned. Earlier indications had been that he intended to step down after
enduring four years of clashes with the office of Mr Cheney and the Pentagon under
Donald Rumsfeld.

Friends of Mr Powell later briefed journalists that he had changed his mind
because he saw the chance of progress on the peace process and wanted to see
through the Iraqi elections.

Mr Powell is to be replaced by Condoleezza Rice, the national security
adviser and close confidante of Mr Bush.

Mr Bolton's predicted promotion as her deputy is a further signal that the
president wants to conduct foreign policy without the "moderating" influence and
popular public face of Mr Powell.

Prominent neo-conservatives in Washington make no secret of their desire for
regime change in Teheran, although few believe that a full-scale military
operation is a viable strategy.

Instead, the emphasis is on establishing economic sanctions as a means to
squeeze the ruling mullahs. There is also the option that the US may tacitly back
Israeli air strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities.

The overhaul of the CIA under its new director, Porter Goss, a recent Bush
appointee, is also intended to remove critics of America's foreign policy.


IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

I just find it quite nice to know that Bush allows a female monkey to run the State Department when in fact he had someone that was better and more reliable and able to tell Bush the idiot that he is wrong! Monkeys do not fight back when on stage at a circus, they smile with lips and teeth and shake their big lips to the crowd like the DR, does!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Amy does it again:

http://rense.com/general59/aerosolandelectromag.htm

[halva]

Worth a visit:

http://www.heatisonline.org/

[gaiacomm]

Worth a visit also:

www.gaiacomminternational.com

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Not bad site---one can even find the ugly deceptive JR (GE, Hess Oil, Dallas construction) clones

http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?id=4097&method=full

Dallas HQ Exxon/Mobil
http://www.cleanenergynow.org/media/pressreleases/010711.html

Hess
http://www.scripophily.net/hesoilchemco.html

imho,
is

[jayreynolds]

Exodus 23:1 Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness.
Jim Phelps, and all the rest of you chemtrails cultists, the LORD hates a false witness who pours out lies.
How will it feel to FACE GOD, knowing the lies you have told to promote the "chemtrails" hoax?
No squishy-squashy answers then. No beating around the bush. HE knows.
What say you?


Jim Phelps, you haven't answered the question.

[halva]

Good to see you preparing yourself for the hereafter Raynolds.

[halva]

Leaked Document Shows Coal Industry Plan to Gut Climate, Air Regulations
From: INSIDE EPA

Coal Industry Document Reveals Strategy For Opposing Climate Change and Air Quality Initiatives

An industry group that represents coal producers and suppliers has been carrying out an ambitious strategy for defeating or scaling back a host of ongoing congressional and state initiatives to limit greenhouse gases, mercury and other air pollutants, according to a recent internal letter obtained by Inside EPA.

The letter, sent between governing officers of the Center for Energy and Economic Development (CEED), boasts about the group's ties with Republican officials and provides an unusual window into CEED's strategy for opposing air pollution control initiatives, including behind-the-scenes efforts to defeat proposals by state groups like the Environmental Council of the States (ECOS) and the National Governors' Association.

CEED is scheduled to discuss these efforts at its upcoming annual meeting next month in Naples, FL.

A CEED source says the letter reflects the organization's "guiding principle of how we do business" by supporting a balance between energy production and environmental protection. "There's nothing in the letter that talks about defeating any EPA regulation," the source says. However, the source acknowledges the letter's references to fighting mandatory climate change control initiatives reflect key CEED goals. "It's no surprise that we're opposed to mandatory climate change programs," the source says, noting the organization instead supports voluntary and market-driven initiatives.

Among other things, the group is fighting various efforts by state attorneys general to regulate greenhouse gas emissions and other air pollution, and is using a "citizen army" to help defeat landmark climate change legislation that its key sponsors, Sens. John McCain (R-AZ) and Joseph Lieberman (D-CT), have vowed to re-introduce next year.

The June 18 letter from CEED President Stephen Miller to Peabody Energy CEO Irl Engelhardt -- the chairman of CEED's board of directors -- lays out numerous steps the group is taking to urge Congress and state officials to oppose or scale back climate change and mercury initiatives, as well as legal strategies to support the Bush administration's new source review (NSR) reforms and fight state lawsuits to force EPA regulation of carbon dioxide (CO2).

The letter says CEED played a major role in convincing some state attorneys general (AGs) to intervene on behalf of the Bush administration in two separate sets of lawsuits against EPA's NSR reforms. "We took responsibility for securing several state attorneys general to intervene on EPA's side in the first round of litigation seeking to overturn the NSR 'general applicability' rules, which our members favored. Ultimately, eight attorneys general intervened in support of the Bush administration's position and CEED had lead responsibility for four of those AGs."

In addition, Miller says CEED "took advantage of [its] membership in the Republican Attorneys General Association to facilitate getting AGs to intervene in [the] second phase of the NSR litigation." The second phase involves EPA's new definition or routine maintenance and repair.

Miller also says CEED has worked hard to defeat an effort by ECOS -- at the state commissioners' 2004 mid-year meeting held this spring in Hot Springs, AR -- to produce a resolution urging EPA to drop the Bush administration's controversial proposal to cap and trade mercury emissions and instead issue a strict technology-based rule. "It boggles the mind to consider how much effort it took to stop ECOS from passing that resolution, which the sponsors dropped. . . a couple of days before the meeting," the letter says.

"The ECOS meeting turned into a raucous affair, with state officials yelling at one another, one breaking down in tears all over the mercury resolution," according to the CEED letter.

ECOS at its annual meeting this year in Oklahoma City, OK, failed again to pass a resolution on mercury and other pollutants, after its members could not reach consensus on how to endorse a multi-pollutant regulatory approach.

In the letter, CEED also raises concerns about a new ECOS effort on climate change. "ECOS will continue to be a challenge moving forward and they have just formed a Climate Change Working Group. Left to its own devices, you can imagine what that working group will conceive."


ECOS's air committee chairperson, Jane Stahl of Connecticut, said at the annual meeting earlier this month that the group is first planning to convene a panel of experts to discuss climate change before developing any policies on the issue.


Miller in his letter also suggests CEED was responsible for persuading two key states not to participate in a Northeastern initiative to develop a mandatory climate change program.

"Persuading Pennsylvania and Maryland (as major coal-consuming states) to stay on the sidelines, rather than signing onto this initiative, has been one element of our strategy."

He also cites the organization's success in having its research, which shows greenhouse gas controls would harm the economy, posted on a website for the state-driven Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGGI). "We plan to use this research to sow discord among the RGGI states," Miller says.

And CEED served as "the lead organization for outreach to the vast majority of state attorneys general who intervened on the Bush administration's side in new litigation designed to force CO2 regulation under the Clean Air Act," the letter says. Miller is referring to litigation filed by a host of Northeastern states, including New York and Connecticut, to force EPA to regulate CO2.

Some of those states later dropped the lawsuit in order to join litigation by environmentalists that challenges an EPA rationale on why it is not regulating CO2.

The group also takes credit for securing grass-roots opposition to Senate legislation that would regulate greenhouse gases. "We activated the Americans for Balanced Energy Choices citizen army to call targeted U.S. senators, urging them to vote against"

legislation McCain and Lieberman introduced. At the time, the lawmakers were planning to offer the legislation -- which would impose first-time economy-wide caps on greenhouse gas emissions -- as an amendment to a pending class-action litigation reform bill.

"Through today, more than 6,000 citizen members have called or e-mailed their senators. Our most recent effort follows on the heels of last fall's citizen army activation, which generated more than 7,000 calls to target senators in opposition to McCain-Lieberman," the letter says. McCain and Lieberman eventually abandoned their legislative effort, pledging to reintroduce the bill in the next congressional session.

-- Rachel Urdan (C) Inside Washington Publishers Oct. 29, 2004

[gaiacomm]

Resistance Fighters Hit American Base In Balad With Chemical Warheads
Nov 22, 2004
By Bruce Kennedy, JUS

JUS has learned that Resistance fighters took revenge for their fellow citizens of Fallujah early Sunday morning by hitting the American Al-Bakr base in Balad with 4 rockets carrying chemical warheads.

Sources inside the base confirmed the presence of a white substance after the explosions of the rockets which came at the time when a large contingency of American soldiers were preparing to leave for Mosul. Approximately 2500 American soldiers occupy this base, which plays a pivotal role in providing logistics and personnel support to American occupation forces in the northern, north eastern and north western zones of Iraq.

According to this inside source, 270 Americans were killed in the attack. Black Hawk and Chinook aircraft took over 3 hours to evacuate the dead and the wounded. The Americans have cordoned off the area with red tape and started to spray a liquid over the chemical substance to neutralize it. The specific chemical used is not yet known however the damage is said to have extended to surrounding trees, which were either burnt or wilted.

This attack came as a response to the American chemical attack on Fallujah a few days ago. At press time, there is not one word in mainstream press about this large scale attack. Curiously, a quick search on Google netted virtually no information at all on the Iraq war – a war that is taking American lives daily.

This report has not yet been independently verified and is considered preliminary at this point. We consider the source reliable and are therefore releasing this information publicly as we continue to verify its validity. If this report is proved to be correct, the stakes inside Iraq have just been significantly raised. (JUS)

[foot_soldier]

Re: Leaked Document Shows Coal Industry Plan to Gut Climate, Air Regulations:

.....The June 18 letter from CEED President Stephen Miller to Peabody Energy CEO Irl Engelhardt -- the chairman of CEED's board of directors.....
Peabody Energy - well, well - that's very interesting.

My goodness, they're just everywhere, pillaging everything they can get their greasy meathooks into. Here's some of their handiwork in northern Arizona - on reservation land I might add:

Drinking Water Jeopardized in Arizona's Black Mesa Region
The sole source of drinking water for the Hopi and many Navajo is showing signs of serious decline after years of pumping by coal company
http://www.nrdc.org/water/conservation/nblmesa.asp

An underground aquifer that sustains two Native American tribes in Arizona's arid Black Mesa region is showing signs of serious decline after three decades of pumping by the Peabody Coal Company, which drains more than a billion gallons of water from the reservoir each year to transport coal.

Approximately 40 percent of Arizona's water comes from underground sources like the one that supports the people of Black Mesa -- natural reservoirs known as aquifers that have built up stores of water over millions of years. Water that collects in the Black Mesa aquifer slowly percolates from the northwest sector of the Navajo reservation into a set of shallow, fingerlike projections near the Hopi reservation in the south, discharging after many years into a host of gentle washes and springs.

Many Hopi and Navajo rely on the aquifer for drinking and irrigation and for religious purposes -- the springs it feeds along its southern front are sacred to the Hopi people -- but the largest user by far is the Peabody Western Coal Company. Peabody mixes the water with coal to form a compound called slurry and shoots it hundreds of miles by pipeline to a power station in Nevada. Once the slurry reaches the power plant the coal is extracted and the water used to cool the plant's generators.

Since Peabody began tapping the aquifer thirty years ago, water levels in some Black Mesa wells have dropped by more than 100 feet, many springs have slackened to less than half their original volume, and washes used by local farmers appear to have declined. In addition, a government study shows that some contamination of the aquifer may be taking place, as changes in the water pressure allow contaminated water from another aquifer to leach in. Officials from the Interior Department who are monitoring the situation insist that all is well, yet their own data cannot support that conclusion. According to a new NRDC review, one of the government's four thresholds for "material damage" has been exceeded, and the data strongly challenge the government's conclusions with respect to two others..... (continued)

[foot_soldier]

November 22, 2004
EU studies adding aviation to emissions scheme
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L2281982.htm

LONDON, Nov 22 (Reuters) - The EU has started a study to see if it can curb aircraft pollution by including aviation in its new carbon dioxide emissions trading scheme, said Peter Vis, acting head of the industrial emissions unit at the European Commission on Monday.

Britain has said it would use its presidency of the European Union in the second half of 2005 to press for aviation to brought within the scheme which will launch in January.

In a speech on climate change in September, Prime Minister Tony Blair said that by 2030 aircraft emissions could be responsible for a quarter of Britain's total contribution to global warming.

European Union airline traffic is rising by five percent a year and is expected to double by 2020.

Vis said including aircraft pollution in the scheme would be complicated as scientists were uncertain about the impact of jet emissions, which include carbon dioxide, water vapour and nitrous oxides (Nox), in high altitude.

"A tonne of CO2 emitted at high altitude could be three or four times as damaging as that at ground level...This is the subject of discussions," he told a conference.

The short time until the start of Britain's presidency will limit the amount of work that can be done on the policy document, he said.

"What we can do before then is limited, however high this is on the EU agenda," Vis said.

Including internal EU flights within the trading scheme would cover 80 percent of emissions from aviation within the 25-member bloc, delegates were told.

The trading scheme covers about 12,000 industrial sites but does not include emissions from transport or households.

The scheme, a key part of the bloc's efforts to meet its commitments under the Kyoto Protocol on global warming, will create the world's first international market in carbon emissions.

Businesses are given permits to produce carbon dioxide after receiving allocations from national plans. Companies which exceed their limits have to buy quotas from firms that undershoot their targets.

[foot_soldier]

POINT CARBON
eCarbon Newsletter - September 2004
http://www.greenhouse.crc.org.au/crc/ecarbon/enews_Sep04.cfm

Disputes over aviation emissions

The European Parliament has called on the International Civil Aviation Organisation to drop plans to restrict governments' ability to introduce jet fuel taxes or other measures to curb aircraft emissions.
17 September Point Carbon
http://www.pointcarbon.com/article.php?articleID=4570&categoryID=147

US members of the International Civic Aviation Organisation are set to table a proposal that will block the inclusion of aviation in the EU emissions trading scheme.
28 September Point Carbon
http://www.pointcarbon.com/article.php?articleID=4656&categoryID=147

A UK parliamentary environmental committee has "drawn a line" under a series of exchanges with the government over aviation growth policy, saying their concerns have not been addressed. The House of Commons Environmental Audit Committee has ended its back-and-forth sessions with the government in frustration and taken the unusual step of adding critical comments to its published report on the sustainability of aviation in the UK, Dow Jones reports.
24 September Point Carbon
http://www.pointcarbon.com/article.php?articleID=4621&categoryID=147

[foot_soldier]

Also on this page at POINT CARBON:
http://www.greenhouse.crc.org.au/crc/ecarbon/enews_Sep04.cfm

Will geosequestration work?

Will geosequestration - capturing carbon dioxide emissions and burying them deep underground - really work? Will it work in time? Or is it a desperate last gasp from a coal industry delaying the move to alternative energy solutions and leaving behind a long-term environmental hazard for future generations to deal with?

Transcript of the ABC's 9 September Catalyst program, Pipedreams (Geosequestration)
Watch the program through Real Player or Windows Media Player
Greenhouse Gas Grave - a 24 September feature from ABC Science Online

Discover more at the website of the Cooperative Research Centre for Greenhouse Gas Technologies
http://www.co2crc.com.au/

[gaiacomm]

Chinook Down With High Casualties
Nov 22, 2004
By Omar al-Faris, JUS

Mujahideen in Fallujah continued to “selectively target” American occupation formations in and around the city, both in the southern and northern areas, from Saturday night until Sunday morning. A Chinook was shot down and an estimated 50 American soldiers on board were killed. Mujahideen also executed a definitive operation when they penetrated American positions in the northern part of Fallujah to deliver supplies to the Mujahideen inside.

Here are details of these offensives:

American Chinook Shot Down, 50 Americans Reported Killed

A Chinook aircraft carrying a large number of American soldiers, estimated to be at least 50, was shot down by Mujahideen on Saturday night in the Shuhada’a neighborhood. The Mujahideen used a Strella rocket to bring down the plane and subsequent to its downing, fired several anti-personnel rockets which resulted in what is believed to be the killing of all American soldiers on board.

Rockets Fired In Selective-Target Offensives

Some 40 rockets, including 10 Ababils, known for their powerful destructive capability, hailed in on American positions from the direction of Taji on Sunday. Later in the afternoon, American positions in northwest Fallujah were hit with a barrage of eight more rockets. Mechanized vehicles in nine different locations were seen on fire by eye witnesses.

Mujahideen Penetrate American Positions In Northern Fallujah

A new twist in what has become a “cities war” occured when Mujahideen from outside of Fallujah were able to penetrate American lines in northern Fallujah in order to bring in supplys to Mujahideen inside.

Mufkarat al-Islam’s correspondent gave this detailed account of the event:

The operation was carried out by a large number of Mujahideen from Al-Azraqiah, a village outside of Fallujah to the west. Under thunderous chanting of “Allahu Akbar “ (God is great), Mujahideen advanced to “Old Fallujah” then to Golan area, from their they proceeded to the railway station, then to the civilian neighborhood, and finally, they made their exit from the northern part. The operation took 2 hours to complete and Mujahideen delivered undisclosed supplies to their comrades inside the city.

American occupying force opted to stay out of the way as the large number of Mujahideen advanced throughout the city under “Allahu Akbar” . Some marines retreated to “Officers neighborhood” while others retreated to northwest of Golan area to stay out of Mujahideen way. The thing that surprised observers about this penetrating operation is the speed by which it was executed and the ineffectiveness of the American siege around the city. American response was minimal in Old Fallujah, and Al-Jomhouriah neighborhoods, but somewhat stronger in Golan area and non-existent at the railway station.

This easy penetration is sure to give the Mujahideen “ideas” on how to further penetrate the American held north to reclaim the city. (JUS)

[gaiacomm]

All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi,

So true Gaia, another by thirds procession. Perhaps this one will ring a bell with you, as well:
==
"Strange times are those in which we live when old and young are taught in
falsehoods school. And the one man that dares to tell the truth is called at
once a lunatic and a fool" - Plato
===
Since this little forum is surrounded by lots of persons intent upon propagation of evil, it might be good to further expose it and them. Everyone needs to know how to spot the evil and reject it.

It has been said there are no Environmental type interests in the Bible, yet the very first of the passages speak to Noah and his interests in saving all the animals from the great flood, as prescribed to him by god. There is little difference in that story and the one now being present by Man-induced global warming and species eradication.

Even when we consider the most sacred icon of the Catholics, Mary, she stands with one foot on a snake to moderate the poisons of the Earth (often from Man's screw ups) entering the human food chain, the apple. One of the better concepts is to treat the body as a temple and keep it free of poisons. How more Environmental a statement?

The real God is about mother nature and the natural order, and man is a part of that effect and his efforts in making the effects of Global Warming are also. So, one can say that Man is the cause of Global Warming and that global warming is a natural event, because man is a direct product of nature and his actions as well. The truer sense is man is causing global warming and there are those bend on evil presentation in avoiding that simple fact.

All civilized highly intellectualized peoples take note of the environment and values good stewardship of the planet and its animals. Even some 6,000 years ago took note.

Take note of one, an apparent Jew, that puts forth the Jewish Torah citations of "Exodus." Exodus is from those that practiced serpent worship pertaining to Moses. Jesus rebuked this version of God and all true followers of Jesus vision do the same.

This said same Jewish Exodus citer brings with him a Jewish Mason, which is a double level of evil. Some of the most difficult of the satanics to confront. Treachery is his name.

It these people that make false descriptions of god and make war against their own brothers due to these false precepts on their false concept on god. These peoples and their lives based upon their lie make more problems for civilization than has ever been seen. They perpetually don't follow the true values of God, only their own selfservingness is their god, and God has perpetually punished them. This punishishment again nears due to their cover ups on Global Warming and the issues of the Second Coming. They continue to reject the values of God put forth by Jesus.

Pertaining to the Mason's versions of God, they know both Satan and God as one, the two headed eagle. Masons at the highest levels know the Satan form of Torah and Moses and they know the Pure Form of the Christs God. They chose to conceal the pure form, making themselves outwardly Satanic.

When the evil of Mason's are presented, one should know their two faced abilties to fool the Goy. Masons are just as treacherous as the Jew's false god. Because of these cover ups many persons walk into churches that claim to value Jesus and end up walking in step with Satan. More on Masons:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/FREE001a.html
Citations:
===
Finally, Serpent Worship takes us directly into Hell itself, for Satan stands directly behind this form of worship. This is the Invisible Fraternity of Freemasonry, and I bet you never knew it existed, did you?
===
three 'Master Numbers', the highest being 33 ... This highest of the master numbers was the age of the Master Initiate (Jesus) at his death, resurrection and ascension, giving more esoteric accents. The '33' symbolizes the highest spiritual conscious attainable by the human being." [Ibid., p. 161-2]
===
But, Greece and Rome began a movement of civilizations, where the center of power gravitated gradually northward. Since the reign of Sir Francis Bacon and Queen Elizabeth I (1590 - 1603), Rosicrucianism and Freemasonry have ruled England and Europe with an increasingly iron hand. Once Adam Weishaupt established the Masters of the Illuminati on May 1, 1776, Freemasonry has been gradually moving the entire world into the Kingdom of Antichrist -- New World Order. This is the society where the ultimate goal is that from "The Christ" on downward, all the peoples of the world still living after the "Cleansing Cycle" will so spiritually evolve, along the paths described above, that they will attain immortality on earth. The numeric symbol of this high degree of spiritual attainment will be '33', and the physical symbol will be the Third Eye that will open up physically between the eyes.
===
End cite.

It is these persons that are threats to US national security and the threat to world peace, along with the corrupt Neo-Cons and Conman Bush. It is this perverse mindset that killed Jesus, and today kills even the fuller truth of his memory.

May their actions and allegiances with evil convict them. But then, what else, did Jesus not warn us in Revelation about these persons and their evil and uncivilities?

Pay them no mind as soon they will be gone in a nuclear flash of light and a puff of smoke on the 33rd parallel into Heaven for Judgement Day never to burden the Earth with their perversities forever.

IMHO,
is ---99th order---one who respects the natural order, speaks the greater truth, and walks with God.

[halva]

Arctic nations to make scant promises to slow thaw
23 Nov 2004 17:15:31 GMT

Source: Reuters

By Alister Doyle

REYKJAVIK, Nov 23 (Reuters) - Eight Arctic countries will make scant promises to slow a rapid thaw of the region linked to global warming at a meeting in Iceland on Wednesday after U.S. opposition to firmer action, delegates said.

A draft policy document to be adopted by foreign ministers at the Arctic Council makes no common call, for instance, to cut emissions of greenhouse gases widely blamed for warming the Arctic twice as fast as the rest of the globe.

"The Arctic Council is not a forum for negotiating or making commitments" linked to global warming, Gunnar Palsson, the Icelandic chair of preparatory talks among senior officials, told Reuters on Tuesday.

Delegates said the United States, the only Arctic nation outside the U.N.'s Kyoto protocol on curbing heat-trapping emissions from fossil fuels, had opposed stronger recommendations favoured by some nations and indigenous groups.

Environmentalists said the meeting was a lost opportunity to slow damaging climate change by nations with territory stretching into the Arctic -- the United States, Russia, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland and Iceland.

Palsson said ministers would set no new binding commitments or dates for action in a document that has taken months of negotiations for the Arctic Council, set up after the Cold War.

"They will address the need for the countries and the communities of the north to adapt to climate change, to mitigate the consequences of climate change, to engage in further research and monitoring and education," he said.

The Arctic Climate Impact Assessment (ACIA), by 250 scientists and issued two weeks ago, says warming could melt the polar ice in summer by 2100, ruin the livelihoods of indigenous peoples and drive species like polar bears to extinction.

The Arctic is thawing fast partly because dark oceans and ground, once exposed, soak up more heat than ice and snow.

LOST CHANCE - WWF

"The report gives such a strong warning of the changes to come that it deserves a very strong response," said Samantha Smith, director of the WWF environmental group's Arctic Programme.

"If there are no new commitments then they will miss a chance to show leadership," she said. Nations around the Arctic account for almost 40 percent of world greenhouse gas emissions, mainly from cars, factories and power plants.

The United States is the top global polluter. Washington will be represented by Paula Dobriansky, Under Secretary, World Affairs, while other nations send government ministers.

Some delegates said agreement on common policy recommendations was a victory of sorts after months of wrangling. Indigenous groups had wanted more but had won a far wider global understanding of their plight.

Norwegian Foreign Minister Jan Petersen said the ACIA report could help a drive to persuade Washington to rejoin U.N. efforts on climate change.

"This study shows fairly dramatic consequences and will influence the debate," he told Reuters. "We should never give up hope that the United States will sign up for the Kyoto process for a more effective climate policy."

U.S. President George W. Bush pulled out of Kyoto in 2001, arguing that it was too expensive and wrongly excluded developing nations from a first round of cuts in emissions.

[whitemajikman]

Halva how will we stop Polar Melting......?

And what would be the use of it ,just to prolong the inevitable .......?

Eventually they will Melt no matter what Treaty or how much money we throw at the problem.

THAT IS THE TRUE SCIENTIFIC CONCENSUS.

So I ask you why Play Environmental Politics when there is no solution to the problem .

What does Environmental Activism Gain By Doing so.......?

And Why are you wasting your time pointing fingers at the U.S. who have studied the problem and have given an honest answer of where they stand.

You Would Be better off trying to develop ways in which people can cope with the melting instead of trying to play political games that only lead to a minor slowing of the melting and even the scientist's are not 100 percent certain that it will work even if implemented.

Even most of the global econimist's agree that Implementing such a plan would be foolhardy and would be detrimental to the global economy.

So answer just one question what are your real motives .............?

WMM

[foot_soldier]

November 23, 2004
Brussels presses for cap to aircraft carbon emissions
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/e6f51dd4-3cf6-11d9-bb7b-00000e2511c8.html

Pressure is growing within the European Union to push the aviation industry to limit the amount of carbon dioxide it produces.

Peter Vis, acting head of the industrial emissions unit at the European Commission, said yesterday in London that the impact of bringing the aviation industry within the remit of the Union's carbon-emissions trading scheme was being investigated.

It would be too late to bring aviation into the first round of the scheme, which starts in January 2005, but it might be possible to include it in the next round from 2008. Under the scheme, industries such as power generation and cement-making have a limit imposed on the amount of carbon they can produce in a year.

It has been suggested that individual airlines should have caps like any other industrial entity.

Any company wishing to produce more than its allocation must buy carbon allowances on an internal EU market, where companies that have reduced the amount of carbon they emit can sell their excess allowances. Fines will be levied on companies that produce more than their allocation without valid allowances.

Aircraft produce large quantities of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide, blamed for global warming. They also produce nitrogen oxides and water vapour, which can affect the climate by causing condensation trails from jets.

However, nitrogen oxides are not covered by the EU's emission trading scheme and the effects of water vapour are not well understood. BAA, the airport company, said yesterday that support for bringing aviation within the trading scheme was growing, but any move should also consider the effects of nitrogen oxides and water vapour.

Care should be taken not to create incentives for airlines to reduce the amount of carbon dioxide they emit in a way that could increase nitrogen oxide output, the company said.

Mr Vis yesterday told an emissions trading conference in London that the EU's caps on carbon emissions should be set low enough to ensure there was a scarcity of carbon, in order to give companies an incentive to reduce their greenhouse gases.

If this did not happen, it would become more expensive for European member states to fulfil their obligations to cut carbon dioxide emissions under the UN-brokered Kyoto protocol on climate change, set to come into effect on February 16.

[foot_soldier]

November 22, 2004
No Evidence Ozone Layer is Recovering, Scientists Say
http://www.enn.com/today.html?id=426

PRAGUE, Czech Republic -- AP -- Mexico's Nobel Prize-winning chemist Mario Molina said Friday that despite recent measures scientists still don't have evidence that the ozone layer is recovering.

"We need a big signal before we can tell unambiguously that the ozone layer ... is recovering," Molina told reporters ahead of the 16th Meeting of the Parties to the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer, an annual event where politicians and scientists make adjustments to a global treaty requiring nations to stop using chemicals that destroy the ozone layer.

The 1987 protocol established a system by which nations would gradually eliminate chemicals that destroy the ozone layer, which prevents ultraviolet light from reaching the earth and harming living things.

The treaty, signed by nearly 200 countries, is considered the most successful international environmental treaty.

One of the major chemicals still to be phased out was methyl bromide, "a significant contributor" to the ozone layer destruction, Molina said.

Under the protocol, wealthy nations are to eliminate production of methyl bromide completely by Jan 1, 2005. However, countries that say they have a critical need for methyl bromide and have no alternatives can seek exemptions.

Delegates to the five-day meeting, which begins in Prague on Monday, have to decide on exemptions for 2006. The United States and 12 other countries are to seek exemptions for that year.

The U.S government has argued in the past that exemptions from the treaty were needed to avoid disrupting agricultural markets.

At the last year's meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, the U.S. delegation asked to increase by more than 8 percent production of the fumigant used to control insects, nematodes, weeds and pathogens.

Negotiators from the European Union and poor countries at that meeting called the proposed increase was too high and refused to agree to the exemption.

In April, Republicans in the House of Representatives promoted a bill that would let the United States ignore the treaty and allow U.S. production of methyl bromide to continue even if other countries don't agree.


In TEXAS we call it walkin' - eeeeeHAW!!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/041121/481/edb11411211850

[gaiacomm]

http://www.jfk-reloaded.com/

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi Gaia,

It looks like you found the latest Oak Ridge Y-12 video game, since they had a lot to do with that sort of murder for take over plan.

I do think we all need to allow all the Arab states using oil for power that want to use nuclear power to combat the global warming crisis to do so.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-nuclear-iran.html

All the Middle East states are a good place to begin the plan for combating global warming.

IMHO,
is

[halva]

Raynolds the experience of being picked up by the globalist 'powers that be', used to do their dirty work, and then thrown in the trash can, is not something you should allow to disillusion you.

We of the European anti-nuclear movements had that experience in the eighties. Our anti-nuclear and democratic demands were co-opted to help with penetration of 'civil society' in the
closed societies of the Warsaw Pact countries. Then, when the wall came down and the Soviet Union was dissolved, we and our proposals were swept under the carpet.

But we survived.

So my advice to you now is that if you feel the same throwing-in-the-trash-can is beginning to happen with you,
Get over it!!!

to paraphrase what you have often said to us.

A possible alternative to your disappearing from this thread and this forum would be starting to practise self-criticism from now.

Would you, for a start, acknowledge that your understanding of history and politics may possibly a little, shall we say, INADEQUATE.....given that it has clearly inspired in you the belief that a ruling caste which just happens currently to be hegemonic can dictate everywhere and forever what is and what is not to be construed as REALITY.
.

[jayreynolds]

Would you, for a start, acknowledge that your understanding of history and politics may possibly a little, shall we say, INADEQUATE.....given that it has clearly inspired in you the belief that a ruling caste which just happens currently to be hegemonic can dictate everywhere and forever what is and what is not to be construed as REALITY.
.

Wayne, you are too dead-pan to do comedy.
Ok, time for a little REALITY check.

REALITY#1- The chemtrails hoax, which began almost 8 years ago with the claim that contrails contained ethylene dibromide, has persisted, despite the EDB claim having no validity whatsoever. The claim is still repeated, though no chemmie has ever actually shown a lab test of the fuel or an insitu gas analysis, which would have been an easy matter.

REALITY#2- NO scientific proof whatsoever has ever been presented that chemtrails are other than ordinary contrails. That's not just me talking trash, that is the statement of your own expert, Nikos Katsaros, and each and every one of the credible scientists who you have ever dared approach regarding the subject.

REALITY#3-"Chemtrails" have also been claimed to contain anthrax, brucellosis, HIV, bacteria, influenza, barium, aluminum, titanium, polymers, and many other things too numerous to count. NONE of these has any any factual reality behind them.

REALITY#4-"Chemtrails" have been claimed to create storms, stop storms, cause droughts, end droughts, create mental confusion(some reality there!), earthquakes, prepare the earth for alien invaders, innoculate against bioterrorism, remediate flouride, remediate pollution, remediate ozone, and geoengineering against climate change. NO evidence that any of these are true has ever been presented, and frankly, the claims are so diverse that they are in fact absurdly contradictory.

REALITY#5-The "chemtrails" hoax has attracted a coterie of nutters, snake-oil salesmen, neo-nazis and political extremists of all descriptions. Practically no effort has taken place to eliminate these elements from their patently bogus distractions, and thus the hoax has become identified with them, and not rational thinking. The result has been a marginalization of the claims, in which the general public scoffs at the claims and easily sees them as false simply by association.

REALITY#6-The cult of "chemtrail" believers, rather than modifying their methods, has turned inwards, erecting barriers against reality by banning skeptical viewpoints, and even restricting public access to their own discussions. The result has been a stagnation and innoculation against reality, in which ever-more deluded thinking is promoted, never countered by rational examination. Scientists from diverse fields, who unanimously reject the hoax, and should have broght credibility had they been shown facts, have instead become your enemies, rather than lending necessary support. Rather than incorporating their input, you instead turned to people like Jim Phelps, who further alienate those who could help you find reality.

REALITY#7-As with all cults, membership has a high turnover, as disaffected people become frustrated over time, one of the greatest enemies of falsehood. Those members represent failure. At the same time, radicalization of membership has taken place, with leadership passing on to the most deluded "true believers", who are the most unlikely of all to distinguish fact from REALITY. Most of their effort has eventually turned towards proselyzation of new dupes, and endless repetition of the already ludicrous claims. This new class of leaders is the least likely of all to progress, because for them there is no turning backwards, admitting defeat.

And so we come to the final REALITY.

Wayne, should you choose to repeat the same REALITIES enumerated above, and you show all signs of doing so, expect more of the same results. If you choose to change, expect yourself to one day see the hoax ended. The choice is entirely up to you, and out of my hands. Regardless of which choice you make, you will never change reality, because reality simply IS, and the reality IS that "chemtrails" are nothing more than ordinary contrails of water vapor.

HOW'S THAT FOR BEING "SWEPT UNDER THE CARPET", BUB???

[jayreynolds]

Hey, Wayne. I understand you passed on the conference. The "chemtrails" hoax got a big laugh in Budapest. How come no chemmies showed up?

http://www.aeroszol.hu/conference/

[halva]

Hey, Wayne. I understand you passed on the conference. The "chemtrails" hoax got a big laugh in Budapest. How come no chemmies showed up?

http://www.aeroszol.hu/conference/

I have explained to you many times why I, at least, did not 'show up'.

You still keep singing your song, and it seems you will do so until the theatre comes crashing down on your head.

[halva]

Arctic thaw could open vast oil and gas region

An accelerating thaw of the Arctic may open vast regions for oil and gas exploration but that brings worries of spills in the fragile environment, experts say.

Scientists behind an-eight nation report saying the Arctic sea ice could almost vanish in summer by 2100 because of global warming said offshore oil and gas operations would be easier but melting permafrost could destabilize installations on land. But oil companies are unconvinced.

“We can’t say for sure whether Arctic operations will become easier or more difficult,” said Mark Akhurst, climate change manager for BP, an observer at a scientists’ conference in Reykjavik reviewing the Arctic report. “One of the big issues is – great chunks of ice shifting around,” he said. “If warming creates areas where ice is far less stable then it’s much more difficult to engineer.”

Oil and gas is already produced around the Arctic from Alaska to Norway. Big new projects include Russia’s Shtokman natural gas field in the Barents Sea, one of the world’s biggest with an estimated 3.3 trillion cubic meters of gas. “As ice recedes, resources like oil and gas will generally be easier to reach,” said Arne Instanes, a Norwegian scientist who wrote a chapter of the report on infrastructure in the region.

Many environmentalists are opposed to exploration for new fossil fuels in the Arctic – saying the burning of oil, gas and coal is already responsible for heat-trapping gases like carbon dioxide that are warming the planet.

New treaty: “We need a new Arctic treaty to regulate access to the Arctic,” said Samantha Smith, head of the WWF global conservation group’s Arctic Programme. The chill Alaskan environment has yet to recover from the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill. But Akhurst said world energy demand was likely to double or triple by 2050, and a shift to natural gas from dirtier oil or coal would help curb emissions. But even with oil at $50 a barrel, Arctic fields might cost too much.

The Arctic report, by 250 scientists from the United States, Russia, Canada, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark and Iceland, says temperatures in the Arctic are rising by twice the global average and could rise by another 7 degrees to 13 degrees Fahrenheit by 2100. The region is warming fast partly because dark ground and water, once exposed, soak up more heat than ice and snow. reuters

[jayreynolds]

I have explained to you many times why I, at least, did not 'show up'.
You still keep singing your song, and it seems you will do so until the theatre comes crashing down on your head.

No, Wayne, you didn't expain why. You simply ignored the REALITY that no legitimate scientists will ever be deceived by your hoax, not even in Budapest.
http://ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397&page=237&pp=10&highlight=budapest
THAT was a big chunk of REALITY that has come crashing down on you. Reread my reality checks, and recall that you once promised a "BIG DEAL" from the Tyndall centre, and REALITY came crashing down on you as they "threw you in the trash can". You reacted exactly as I described, and ended up disenchanted.

REALITY#6-The cult of "chemtrail" believers, rather than modifying their methods, has turned inwards, erecting barriers against reality by banning skeptical viewpoints, and even restricting public access to their own discussions. The result has been a stagnation and innoculation against reality, in which ever-more deluded thinking is promoted, never countered by rational examination. Scientists from diverse fields, who unanimously reject the hoax, and should have broght credibility had they been shown facts, have instead become your enemies, rather than lending necessary support. Rather than incorporating their input, you instead turned to people like Jim Phelps, who further alienate those who could help you find reality.
Once Schellnhuber rejected you, you write letters to him as if he were a fool, further alienating him.
http://ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=182244&highlight=schellnhuber#post182244

As I said in my final REALITY CHECK, don't expect different results until you change the way you do business.
GET OVER IT

[jayreynolds]

The chill Alaskan environment has yet to recover from the 1989 Exxon Valdez spill.

Oh, yeah?
Perhaps you need to be aware that the enviro-extemist WWF twists REALITY the same way chemmies do. Here is a report from five years ago.
http://www.valdezscience.com/index.html

[gaiacomm]

I hope everyone here has a safe and wonderful Thanksgiving Holiday and remember to be thankful for the many things you and your families and friends take for granted each day!

[foot_soldier]

November 23, 2004
U.S. - States Steam Ahead on Climate Change
http://www.ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=26408

NEW YORK, Nov 23 (IPS) - The signs are subtle, but ominous. The spring thaw arrives in much of the United States about two weeks earlier than it did 50 years ago. Exotic tropical birds are nesting in Florida, and butterflies on the west coast are fleeing north to escape the heat.

Climate change is already happening, scientists say, and will get much worse unless something is done. If projected temperature increases of up to 10 degrees Centigrade by the end of the century come true, mid-western agricultural states will suffer lost production, wildfires will ravage the west, and the coasts will be inundated.

”Global warming is one of the most significant threats to our quality of life,” Oregon Governor Ted Kulongoski said bluntly last week.

Even as recognition of the problem grows, most states have given up looking for guidance from Washington, which disputes the scientific consensus on climate change.

Instead, they are redoubling their own efforts to crack down on the industries that produce greenhouse gases, and to begin the difficult shift away from oil dependence to clean energy sources like wind and solar.

”Most states would probably like the federal government to take the lead,” said Judi Greenwald of the Pew Centre on Global Climate Change. ”These programmes take a lot of resources to design and implement.”

”But to the extent that the absence of national leadership continues, more and more will continue to set their own policies, including a growing trend toward passing mandatory rules, as well as voluntary guidelines,” she said.

The Kyoto Protocol, an international treaty that directs nations to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, will take effect next February with its recent approval by Russia's legislature.

However, U.S. President George W Bush has refused to submit the treaty to Congress for ratification because he says it unfairly singles out industrialised nations like the United States.

This country produces about one-quarter of the world's greenhouse gases, with Texas State alone regularly exceeding France in annual emissions.

Nearly every U.S. state now has programmes to reduce global warming pollution, and many have moved to the next step by working together in regional blocs. The most prominent projects include a cap-and-trade system for carbon dioxide emissions from utilities, developed by nine northeastern and mid-Atlantic states, and an alliance to boost energy efficiency and the use of renewables in the power grids of 19 western states.

State initiatives tend to frame climate change as an economic opportunity to produce alternative fuels, become renewable energy exporters, attract high-tech business, and to reduce other kinds of pollution as well, according to a Pew analysis that will be released in early December.

”The issue of global warming can be polarising when it's put out there all by itself,” Greenwald said. ”There has been a lot of public support for these (state) initiatives, partly because they are integrated with other things people care about.”

Some states are seeking technological innovations to solve the problem. For example, the Ohio Coal Development Office funds projects that capture and sequester carbon dioxide emissions from coal combustion, while the South Carolina Hydrogen Coalition is promoting economic development by building expertise in hydrogen technology.

Others are taking even stronger steps: for example, 16 states have mandated that electric utilities -- which account for nearly one-third of greenhouse gases -- generate a certain amount of power from renewable sources.

Last week, the governors of California, Oregon and Washington -- all west coast states facing the prospect of rising sea levels -- announced 36 recommendations to fight global warming, including tightening emissions and energy efficiency targets, investing in fleets of hybrid gas-electric vehicles, and boosting retail energy sales from renewables at least one percent a year through 2015.

As the programme matures, the governors plan to promote market-based carbon trading and alternative fuels like hydrogen..... (continued)

[halva]

Once Schellnhuber rejected you, you write letters to him as if he were a fool, further alienating him.
http://ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=182244&highlight=schellnhuber#post182244

I was disappointed that you didn't fall into that trap immediately, Raynolds, but waited for weeks before reacting.

I never sent any letter like that to Schellnhuber. I merely posted it here for your benefit.

By the way, since you mentioned Nikos Katsaros: his position and mine on chemtrails are the same, i.e. we can't prove that they exist.

[gaiacomm]

blah......blah......blah......

[halva]

Once upon a time, before you started posting exclusively on Islamic subjects, Gaiacomm, you had more interesting interventions than that to make.

Raynolds, the fact that you DON'T understand how I do business, no matter how many times I explain, does not bother me at all.

[gaiacomm]

Once upon a time, before you started posting exclusively on Islamic subjects, Gaiacomm, you had more interesting interventions than that to make.

Raynolds, the fact that you DON'T understand how I do business, no matter how many times I explain, does not bother me at all.


I know that!


As for the Islamic subjects,,, I have lost many friends in the war in Iraq on both sides!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi F_S,

”Global warming is one of the most significant threats to our quality of life,” Oregon Governor Ted Kulongoski said bluntly last week.

===

Oh my, the states are even awake now.

It looks like a high level "national emergency" doesn't it !!! A priority "national security" issue, no less.

Who gets the blame----the major polluters like the US, etc. And those gas turbine engineer types, like corrupt oils nay-sayer Jay Reynolds, that add CO-2 into the air in huge amounts. Jay won't have a job if this all gets out in the open, and his Mason buddies will all become washed up nobodies to boot. They are such bags of Hot-Air types---masters of killing the planet with CO-2. Great propaganda jugglers they are.

An issue that Oak Ridge found in the mid-1980's and raised all the warning flags, which is why things like secretive chemtrail methods were designed to mediate some of the effects. And all the warning signs of Revelations came into place. Weather problems, health plagues, and an environment filled with lies.

Yes and even Now all the Zionist Jews see the end of Israel and its misrepresentations on relgion and God coming to a bitter end.

National Security liked the AIDS problems because each human means more CO-2 for heat and energy, cut the humans----cut the global warming rates. Not only kill lots of them off, but scare the world into not having sex and making more human pollution sources.

AIDS is working so good in Africa and its fluoride effects that AIDS can also work on India and China with similar fluoride pollution effects that enable HIV transmission.

Mother Nature protects herself in a myriad of ways that will correct the problems, even it means killing billions of humans and animals along the way of correction.

A massive kill off is coming.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1504&ncid=1504&e=13&u=/afp/
20041123/ts_afp/health_aids_un_041123133008

UN Report Sounds Grim New Warning Over AIDS
11-23-4 BRUSSELS (AFP)

BRUSSELS (AFP) - The UN warned that the world is facing a "unique development
challenge," as new data showed nearly 40 million people now have HIV and over
3 million will die of AIDS this year, the highest tolls in the 23-year
history of the killer disease.

The World Health Organisation (WHO) and UNAIDS named Asia and Eastern Europe
as the regions where the AIDS virus is spreading the most swiftly and noted
the pandemic was advancing alarmingly among women.

Without urgent action "the world is unlikely to gain the upper hand over
AIDS," the two United Nations agencies warned bluntly.

"These latest developments firmly establish AIDS as a unique development
challenge," said UNAIDS chief Peter Piot, who presented a new report at a Brussels
press conference.

"The time of quick fixes and emergency responses is over. We have to balance
the emergency nature of the crisis with the need for sustainable solutions,"
he added.

In an annual report, "AIDS Epidemic Update," published ahead of World AIDS
Day on December 1, the two agencies estimated that 3.1 million people will have
died from AIDS in 2004, the most in any one year and 200,000 more than the
mortality in 2003.

Around 39.4 million people have the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) which
causes the disease, an increase of 1.6 million over the previous year and
another record.

In 2004, 4.9 million people, the most in any single year, will have become
infected by HIV, compared with 4.8 million new cases in 2003, they estimated.

"The number of people living with HIV has been rising in every region," the
report said. "(...) A massive effort is needed to achieve a response on that
which matches the global AIDS epidemic."

It sounded the alarm for East Asia and countries of the former Soviet Union,
but said the situation in sub-Saharan Africa, the world's worst-hit region,
where more than 25 million people have the AIDS virus, was varied.

It made these points:

- EAST ASIA: 1.1 million people have HIV, an increase of 56 percent over the
past two years that is mainly attributable to an explosive rise in China,
where all 31 provinces are now affected. The disease is being spread in diverse
ways, but mainly through sex workers and shared syringes used by injecting drug
users.

"If China is to shape the course of its epidemic, it needs to move swiftly
and with great resolve," the report warned.

- SOUTH ASIA AND SOUTHEAST ASIA: HIV infections have spiralled upwards, from
6.4 million in 2002 to 7.1 million in 2004, of which 5.1 million live in India
-- the highest in the world except for South Africa.

- EASTERN EUROPE AND CENTRAL ASIA: Some 1.4 million people have the AIDS
virus, compared with a million two years ago. The causes: a resurgence of
infections in Ukraine and a relentless rise in Russia, where it is entering the
population mainstream through sexual intercourse, after being largely limited to
injecting drug users.

- SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA: Remains by far the worst-affected region in the world,
although the situation varies greatly across the continent. In South Africa,
where 5.3 million people are infected, "there is no sign yet of a decline in
the epidemic," and HIV prevalence among pregnant women, which in 2003 was
already 27.9 percent, is continuing to rise. However, rates have remained stable in
much of West and Central Africa and Uganda has seen modest declines.

- WOMEN: Women are increasingly at risk from the spreading pandemic. In 2004,
47 percent of new infections occurred among females, a figure that ranges
from 21 percent in Oceania to 57 percent in Africa. Poor education, domination by
men and physical susceptibility to the virus are blamed.

- TREATMENT: Distribution of the anti-retroviral drugs which can hold HIV at
bay is widening, but slowly. Around 440,000 people in poorer countries now
have access to this medication, yet they account for only 10 percent of those
currently in need.

"If this low level of coverage continues, five to six million people will die
of AIDS in the next two years," the report said.

On the positive side, WHO and UNAIDS judged there had been "a sea-change" in
funding for the war on AIDS.

"Global funding has increased from roughly 2.1 billion dollars in 2001 to an
estimated 6.1 billion in 2004, and access to key prevention and care services
has improved markedly," they said.

But cash is not enough, they warned. "The big challenge for all of us is to
ensure that this money reaches the people who need it," Piot told reporters.
"We have the funding, now we have to act," he said.

More than 23 million people have died from AIDS since the disease, caused by
destruction of the immune system by a virus, came to light in 1981.

IMHO,
is

[jayreynolds]

I was disappointed that you didn't fall into that trap immediately, Raynolds, but waited for weeks before reacting. I never sent any letter like that to Schellnhuber. I merely posted it here for your benefit.

Oh, so it was a lie. How typically chemmie of you.


By the way, since you mentioned Nikos Katsaros: his position and mine on chemtrails are the same, i.e. we can't prove that they exist.

Yes, he told me that. Interesting that he has a PhD in chemistry and an entire research center at his disposal, and as he said, can find "NO PROOF WHATSOEVER" for their existance.

That should have sent up warning flags, and a reassessment of the foundations of your chemtrails cult beliefs. But waht the heck, you've got a real-life 'Dr. Strangelove' on your side, Jim Phelps.

I tell you, Wayne, push Phelps as hard as you can, he 'da man!

[whitemajikman]

Wayne how are your forum's doing...........?


Ok, time for a little REALITY check.

REALITY#1- The chemtrails hoax, which began almost 8 years ago with the claim that contrails contained ethylene dibromide, has persisted, despite the EDB claim having no validity whatsoever. The claim is still repeated, though no chemmie has ever actually shown a lab test of the fuel or an insitu gas analysis, which would have been an easy matter.

REALITY#2- NO scientific proof whatsoever has ever been presented that chemtrails are other than ordinary contrails. That's not just me talking trash, that is the statement of your own expert, Nikos Katsaros, and each and every one of the credible scientists who you have ever dared approach regarding the subject.

REALITY#3-"Chemtrails" have also been claimed to contain anthrax, brucellosis, HIV, bacteria, influenza, barium, aluminum, titanium, polymers, and many other things too numerous to count. NONE of these has any any factual reality behind them.

REALITY#4-"Chemtrails" have been claimed to create storms, stop storms, cause droughts, end droughts, create mental confusion(some reality there!), earthquakes, prepare the earth for alien invaders, innoculate against bioterrorism, remediate flouride, remediate pollution, remediate ozone, and geoengineering against climate change. NO evidence that any of these are true has ever been presented, and frankly, the claims are so diverse that they are in fact absurdly contradictory.

REALITY#5-The "chemtrails" hoax has attracted a coterie of nutters, snake-oil salesmen, neo-nazis and political extremists of all descriptions. Practically no effort has taken place to eliminate these elements from their patently bogus distractions, and thus the hoax has become identified with them, and not rational thinking. The result has been a marginalization of the claims, in which the general public scoffs at the claims and easily sees them as false simply by association.

REALITY#6-The cult of "chemtrail" believers, rather than modifying their methods, has turned inwards, erecting barriers against reality by banning skeptical viewpoints, and even restricting public access to their own discussions. The result has been a stagnation and innoculation against reality, in which ever-more deluded thinking is promoted, never countered by rational examination. Scientists from diverse fields, who unanimously reject the hoax, and should have broght credibility had they been shown facts, have instead become your enemies, rather than lending necessary support. Rather than incorporating their input, you instead turned to people like Jim Phelps, who further alienate those who could help you find reality.

REALITY#7-As with all cults, membership has a high turnover, as disaffected people become frustrated over time, one of the greatest enemies of falsehood. Those members represent failure. At the same time, radicalization of membership has taken place, with leadership passing on to the most deluded "true believers", who are the most unlikely of all to distinguish fact from REALITY. Most of their effort has eventually turned towards proselyzation of new dupes, and endless repetition of the already ludicrous claims. This new class of leaders is the least likely of all to progress, because for them there is no turning backwards, admitting defeat.

And so we come to the final REALITY.

Wayne, should you choose to repeat the same REALITIES enumerated above, and you show all signs of doing so, expect more of the same results. If you choose to change, expect yourself to one day see the hoax ended. The choice is entirely up to you, and out of my hands. Regardless of which choice you make, you will never change reality, because reality simply IS, and the reality IS that "chemtrails" are nothing more than ordinary contrails of water vapor.

HOW'S THAT FOR BEING "SWEPT UNDER THE CARPET", BUB???

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hummm......

I see the "reality challenged" have not come up with much new under the sun of propaganda ministries, as they came up with the word communist or "commies" to label those that found the truth on the Jewish religion's state within state problems, and the nearly like term "chemmie" to attempt the same "hate" propaganda on those that see the message of Revelations linked to human induced climate change.

Schizophenic the tribe of Jews here that just can't seem to make over reality in a contiguious fashion.

The "reality depraved" here "rant and rave" on chemtrails, and they can't seem to talk technical issues like the heavy sanctions on sulfur being applied to jet fuels to change acid rain problems linked to jet fuels. Oil companies are under mandates to lower the sulfur content in jet fuels that upset the upper atmosphere. This is accomplished with "aluminum based catalists," whose uses have risen drastically in the last decade. Aluminum based zeolite help to reduce the sulfur in jet fuels, and alumina used in FCC units of refineries help increase the catalytic cracking yields for jet fuels using acid site methods. Huge refinery technology changes are happening in the last decade for making jet fuel. The drop-in methods to existing refineries do make for contamination of jet fuels. Real simple is the equation for what they don't want the public to find out about the extremes of what they have done to the environment.

Not only that little techy issue, But the world is finding out the concept of two seperate ideals for God, a vengful one in the old and the peaceful one in the New. One that makes for peace, the other for perpetual wars that distroy the globe for profits.

We all have little doubt of their god and their appetites for terrorism:

http://rense.com/general60/illum.htm

The Illuminati Controlled Federal Reserve 'Terrorists'
By Michael Shore
Tel Aviv
11-24-4

The biggest "terrorist" threat to the People in the U.S.A. is not Ossama bin
Laden or any other so-called "terrorist" leader or group. While Americans are
preoccupied with a rigged phony election and "wars for PROFIT" in Iraq and
Afghanistan, the Illuminati controlled Federal Reserve "terrorists" are
orchestrating a financial collapse in the U.S.A. that could destroy the U.S.A. and
other countries in the world much more than the Great Depression of 1929-32.

snipped

There are those who promote terrorism among us. The Heat is On for these corrupt persons here and all around the Govt. There is a judgement day coming, a real reality for them nears.

IMHO,
is

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Don't be mislead by the charlatans, shysters, and scammers around here. The shift of refinery operations toward aluminum is real and being pushed along by places like Oak Ridge. They make money on improving the Al operations and sciences.

And you can even see some of the specialness of Al in catalytic methods---water, sulfur removal methods below. Just a slight jump from chemtrails technology. Really close.

There is nothing like a nice Columbo style mystery on "Who Done It" on murdering the environment. Logic shows the oil industry is despirately trying to get the sulfur out of oil products, and aluminum is the special fix. Aluminum fixes the sulfur in the refineries, but somehow, using crooked Zionist logic, it can't possibly be tied to chemtrails. Such flawed logic these Con-men attempt to ply.

They claim it is impossible to Aluminum to react with surfur in the skies, where the real problems of SOx appears. Columbo says he smells con artists at work.

How loud will their panic and screams of denial be this time around?

IMHO,
is

See:
http://www.accelrys.com/cases/ornl.html

Hydrogen and the Structure of Gamma Alumina
Karl Sohlberg1, Stephen J Pennycook1,2, and Sokrates T Pantelides1,2

Gamma-alumina is an enormously important material in catalysis. It is used as a catalyst in hydrocarbon conversion (petroleum refining), and as a support for automotive and industrial catalysts.
Key products
C2.CASTEP

Industry sectors
Petrochemical, Automotive

Company
Oak Ridge National Laboratory and Vanderbilt University (USA)


Even through gamma alumina is so widely used, the experimental data available about its structure has given rise to a long history of disagreement among scientists. The most widely held view is that gamma alumina is a stoichiometric oxide of aluminium with a defect spinel structure. The minority view is that gamma alumina actually contains hydrogen. Now, based on their DFT calculations, scientists from ORNL and Vanderbilt University have presented a description of the structure of gamma alumina which has enabled them to reconcile these two interpretations of experimental data.

The researchers conducted a series of density functional calculations on the dehydration of gamma alumina using the CASTEP program from Accelrys. They carried out three sets of calculations:

Fully relaxed structures were computed for gamma alumina at various levels of dehydration.
Vibrational frequencies were computed for H atoms in nominal tetrahedral and nominal octahedral sites.
The energy barrier to diffusion of H through the bulk was computed.
The results from each of these calculations were in good accord with experimental data available through the literature.

The calculations showed that certain spinel aluminas exist over a range of hydrogen content. In particular, gamma-alumina behaves as a 'reactive sponge' in that it can store and release water in a reactive way. This chemical activity offers a basis for understanding long-standing puzzles in the behavior of aluminas in catalytic systems.

This structure leads to very unusual surface chemistry, which can explain some of the versatility and value of transition aluminas. When a water molecule reaches the surface of gamma-alumina it breaks up. The H enters the material, and the O stays on the surface. Al atoms migrate from the centre of the material and combine with the O, thus extending the crystal matrix. Valence requirements determine that for every three H2O molecules, six H move into the material, two Al move out, and the crystal extends by a stoichiometric Al2O3 unit. The reverse process is also possible. This behaviour is a consequence of the fact that the H content in gamma alumina may fall anywhere within the range [0 < n < 0.6] for Al2O3 · n(H2O).

The availability of H and O at the surface of gamma alumina is likely to have significant implications for the understanding of the remarkable catalytic properties of this material.

Reference
Karl Sohlberg1, Stephen J Pennycook1,2, and Sokrates T Pantelides1,2 , "Hydrogen and the structure of the transition aluminas", JACS, Vol. 121, No. 33, p. 7493-7499, 1999.

1. Solid State Division, PO Box 2008, Oak Ridge national Laboratory, Oak Ridge, TN 37831-6031
2. Department of Physics and Astronomy, Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN 37235

[whitemajikman]

I See Jim Phelps the KooKY Jew Hater And Perpetual Poster Boy for the Mentally Insane is still trying to find some sort of legitimacy through his use of Conspiracy Theory related banter.........

How about this Jim.........

My Name Is Jim Phelps and I hate Jews,I know you are going to call me an anti-semite but thats o.k. because I am. I get all of my Info For my posts from my esteemed colleagues ,the Chemtrail conspiracy believers and the man-made global warming hoaxers,my good friend jeff rense has a site dedicated to my ego and my conspiracy bunk that helps me con more people into believing my outright lies and helps me decieve like Alex jones decieves, I got my schtick actually from a guy named Clifford Carnicom whom has made mega-bucks from promoting a hoax therefore it is my inspiration that I too can do the same. I am a traitor to my country and I am proud of it, we all know that the U.S. is now in the hands of the Annunaki/freemasonic/Illuminati from the planet X and they just happen to be Jewish. We all know that God Is a White Ayran and has little use for the likes of anybody who is not Aryan like myself,we will continue to scam and hoax you in the hopes that we can get enough money to purchase a real website and really start subverting your sons and Daughters through the very convenient Global Warming Issue and my supposed genious. If you do not know who I am then let me fill you in. I am the Inventor of Haarp,and have started researching the very real aphrodisiac effects of fluoride. I am .......shit who am I kidding .I am an arrogant Con-Artist who speaks to God,well at least I think it's God the transmission is coming through my dental work via the chip implant I got as a souvenir when visiting Clifford Carnicom............P.S. If you think I am a nutcase Lunatic then visit my website which will prove you wrong and me sane.........


http://www.doewatch.com/introduction.html (http://)


Of course the link doesn't work ............ :D

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Well---did not take long for the shouting to begin. I do think crooks and conartists on the manmade problems of the environment belong in jail----be they Jewish, Zionists, or Rothchilds/Rockefellers.

So easy these liars are to find, when they dig themselves a hole and fall right in.

IMHO,
is


http://propagandamatrix.com/articles/november2004/231104sunshineaway.htm

A Cemtrail(s) a Day Keeps the Sunshine Away

Pete Harris | November 23 2004

When the day began the sky was clear and a beautiful deep blue color. The
temperature was about 60 degrees with low humidity so I took my dog and cat for a
walk around 8:00am. It was Veterans’ Day 2004 so I had the day off. This made
me happy as I was planning on golfing later. On the way back to the house I
noticed a high altitude jet moving across the sky from east to west leaving a
long, white trail behind it. No big deal, right?

At about 9:30 my wife and I decided to do some shopping that we’ve been
putting off. She remarked on the quality of the day as we set out. We entered the
highway and noticed other planes in the sky. After about 15 minutes we reached
our destination and at least four contrails were visible across the sky which
were very thick. They stretched as far as the eye could see in either
direction.

After spending about an hour or so shopping we walked across the parking lot
to our car, and were stunned. There were contrails everywhere! Some crossed
over other trails leaving at least three large “X’s” in the sky. The trails we
saw initially on the way to the store were still there over an hour later but
had been joined by several more. I’m a physics teacher and nothing in my
experience and education tells me that contrails, or water condensation trails,
should last quite that long. I began to question what we were seeing. There were
two other people standing in the parking lot looking at the same thing we were
with a seeming equal amount of curiosity.

As we returned to the highway there were other planes in the sky spewing
thick, white contrails behind them. At one point on the way home we had counted
about 10 different planes. I’m not an air traffic expert but I cannot believe
there could possibly be that much air traffic over our area at the same time.
I’ve lived here all of my life and have never seen that many planes in the sky
at the same time.

Upon exiting the highway we turned on a winding two-lane road. A plane had
just left a trail directly in front of us, right to left. It was a thick, white
trail but it had two gaps in it, very clearly defined. I have no idea how this
could happen if the trail was coming from the engines.

By the time we reached home the trails began to spread out a bit. The very
first trail that I saw around 8:00am was still there at 11:30am! I just couldn’t
believe my eyes. I went inside the house to take care of a few things and
then set out to go golfing.

I went to the range and hit a few balls while keeping an eye on the sky. I
teach astronomy as well as physics so I often look at the sky while I’m
outdoors. Some of my friends have occasionally made fun of me for this behavior. On
the 1st hole the trails had smeared out across the sky in a large whitish-gray
mass. There were no longer individual trails discernable. The sunlight was
diffused and the sky was no longer blue. By the time we reached the 4th or 5th
hole I needed to put on a sweatshirt and a pullover because the temperature had
dropped 10 degrees in 30 minutes.

The following Monday was very similar. It started out very clear in the
morning and many contrails became visible all through the day. By early afternoon
the trails had spread out diffusing the sunlight and the temperature dropped
several degrees in a short time.

I’m neither an alarmist nor a conspiracy nut. I’ve spent my life studying
physics and astronomy and have taught these subjects for 10 years. I’ve spend
time outdoors looking at the sky because of my profession and I enjoy a clear,
blue day as well as a crisp, clear night, and would love to be able to continue
to do so. This is what I saw on this day and I will continue to look at the
sky as I have done in the past. I challenge you to just look for yourself. Take
a few moments over the next couple of weeks to look at the sky, and tell
others what you see.

[whitemajikman]

See Jim Phelps the KooKY Jew Hater And Perpetual Poster Boy for the Mentally Insane is still trying to find some sort of legitimacy through his use of Conspiracy Theory related banter.........

How about this Jim.........


My Name Is Jim Phelps and I hate Jews,I know you are going to call me an anti-semite but thats o.k. because I am. I get all of my Info For my posts from my esteemed colleagues ,the Chemtrail conspiracy believers and the man-made global warming hoaxers,my good friend jeff rense has a site dedicated to my ego and my conspiracy bunk that helps me con more people into believing my outright lies and helps me decieve like Alex jones decieves, I got my schtick actually from a guy named Clifford Carnicom whom has made mega-bucks from promoting a hoax therefore it is my inspiration that I too can do the same. I am a traitor to my country and I am proud of it, we all know that the U.S. is now in the hands of the Annunaki/freemasonic/Illuminati from the planet X and they just happen to be Jewish. We all know that God Is a White Ayran and has little use for the likes of anybody who is not Aryan like myself,we will continue to scam and hoax you in the hopes that we can get enough money to purchase a real website and really start subverting your sons and Daughters through the very convenient Global Warming Issue and my supposed genious. If you do not know who I am then let me fill you in. I am the Inventor of Haarp,and have started researching the very real aphrodisiac effects of fluoride. I am .......shit who am I kidding .I am an arrogant Con-Artist who speaks to God,well at least I think it's God the transmission is coming through my dental work via the chip implant I got as a souvenir when visiting Clifford Carnicom............P.S. If you think I am a nutcase Lunatic then visit my website which will prove you wrong and me sane.........


http://www.doewatch.com/introduction.html

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Columbo says:

I think we can clearly see how Jewish Mason handle reality.

They can't handle the truth. Shysters to the bitter end.

Case closed, and thanks so much for demonstrating my points.

as always IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

What in the phuck are you ranting about!

You really hate yourself....don't you?

[gaiacomm]

News Agency Confirms Mujahideen Controls Fallujah
Nov 23, 2004
By Omar Al Faris, JUS

China’s Xinhua News Agency reported Monday that Mujahideen are holding 60 percent of Fallujah and have surrounded dozens of US Marines in the al-Jawlan district of the city. Quoting eyewitnesses on Sunday “who managed to sneak out of the city.” Xinhua wrote that the residents reported that the Mujahideen still controls the southern part of al-Fallujah, which “constitutes the larger part of the city and quoted the witnesses as saying that “US troops only control the north and small eastern spots in the city.”

The news agencies filing confirms what our sources and Mafkarat al-Islam have been reporting.

The residents said that “some American troops are based in government buildings and they are pounded by fighters.” They told the news agency, “in daytime groups of mujahideen engage with hit-and-run attacks with US Marines, and at the same time they gear themselves up for the night battles.” Xinhua reported that “fierce fighting and loud explosions resonated throughout the al-Jawlan neighborhood before sunset.”

They agency further reported eyewitnesses as saying on Monday that “fierce clashes are underway in the al-Jawlan, al-‘Askari, and ash-Shuhada’ neighborhoods on Monday. They said that several relief teams were conducting hard negotiations with US troops to gain access to the city to provide assistance to the wounded and bury the dead.

Residents outside the city reported that US troops let one relief team into the city on Sunday but later opened fire on their convoy, killing one member of the team and forcing them to withdraw amid growing fears of a humanitarian crisis in Fallujah.

Bigley House Found In Fallujah?

Meanwhile, mainstream news is reporting that a house found in central Fallujah is the site where British hostage, Kenneth Bigley, was held and beheaded. News agencies are reporting details of the house match the video images in which Bigley appeared while he was captivated, such as writings on the walls and a chicken-wire cage. Shackles and handcuffs were also present in the house.

This appears to be more misinformation to justify the Fallujah massacre of civlians as the last video taken of Bigley inside a cage was not filmed inside Iraq according our sources but rather in Jordan, where he was said to be excuted.

Relative Calm In The City Monday

Calm prevailed over the center and outlying regions of Fallujah on Monday, according to a dispatch posted on Mafkarat al-Islam at 11:35pm Monday night. US occupation forces remain centered in their same positions as on previous days, having made no advances. Some minor movements were observed of some military units, but these were inconsequential.

Correspondents outside the city of al-Fallujah observed occupation troops to be in a relaxed mood, as they could be seen getting out of their cars, resting and playing around with one another. Occupation forces occasionally opened and occasionally closed the road that leads to as-Saqlawiyah, allowing families some movement. (JUS)

Muhammad Abu Nasr, Free Arab Voice, contribted to this report.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi,

I have put the word on man induced climate change out and received interest from some of the heavy hitter vocal activists, who now are also helping in getting the word out to varied US lists. And even helping to feed Jeff Rense and others the data.

All of which will, no doubt, upset the Jews who think they control and own the news broadcast system. Got news for them, like the truth, the news always leaks out. And sinking half the US with global warming is news, big time news. Highest interest factors, which they won't be able to dominate or control.

imho,

is

http://imagicke.blogspot.com/2004/11/as-ice-thaws-arctic-peoples-at-loss.html

As Ice Thaws, Arctic Peoples at Loss for Words
by Alister Doyle

REYKJAVIK, Iceland (Reuters) - What are the words used by indigenous peoples in the Arctic for "hornet," "robin," "elk," "barn owl" or "salmon?" If you don't know, you're not alone.

Many indigenous languages have no words for legions of new animals, insects and plants advancing north as global warming thaws the polar ice and lets forests creep over tundra.

"We can't even describe what we're seeing," said Sheila Watt-Cloutier, chair of the Inuit Circumpolar Conference (news - web sites) which says it represents 155,000 people in Canada, Alaska, Greenland and Russia.

In the Inuit language Inuktitut, robins are known just as the "bird with the red breast," she said. Inuit hunters in north Canada recently saw some ducks but have not figured out what species they were, in Inuktitut or any other language.

An eight-nation report this month says the Arctic is warming twice as fast as the rest of the planet and that the North Pole could be ice-free in northern hemisphere summer by 2100, threatening indigenous cultures and perhaps wiping out creatures like polar bears.

The report, by 250 scientists and funded by the United States, Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark and Iceland, puts most of the blame on a build-up of heat-trapping gases from human use of fossil fuels like coal and oil.

The thaw may have some positive spin-offs for people, for instance by making chill Arctic seas more habitable for cod or herring or by shifting agricultural lands and forestry north.

But on land, more and more species will be cramming into an ever-narrowing strip bounded to the north by the Arctic Ocean, threatening to destroy fragile Arctic ecosystems from mosses to Arctic foxes or snowy owls.


LK SHOCK

In Arctic Europe, birch trees are gaining ground and Saami reindeer herders are seeing roe deer or even elk, a forest-dwelling cousin of moose, on former lichen pastures.

"I know about 1,200 words for reindeer -- we classify them by age, sex, color, antlers," said Nils Isak Eira, who manages a herd of 2,000 reindeer in north Norway.

"I know just one word for elk -- 'sarvva'," said 50-year-old Eira. "But the animals are so unusual that many Saami use the Norwegian word 'elg.' When I was a child it was like a mythical creature."

Thrushes have been spotted in Saami areas of the Arctic in winter, apparently too lazy to bother migrating south.

Foreign ministers from the eight Arctic countries are due to meet in Reykjavik on Wednesday but are sharply divided about what to do. The United States is most opposed to any drastic new action.

The U.S. is the only country among the eight to reject the 127-nation Kyoto protocol meant to cap emissions of greenhouse gases. President Bush (news - web sites) says the U.N. pact would cost too much and unfairly excludes developing states.

In some more southerly areas of the Arctic, like Canada's Hudson Bay, receding ice means polar bears are already struggling. The bears' main trick is to pounce when seals surface to breathe through holes in the ice.

The Arctic report says polar bears "are unlikely to survive as a species if there is a complete loss of summer-ice cover." Restricted to land, polar bears would have to compete with better-adapted grizzly or brown bears.

"The outlook for polar bears is stark. My grandson will lose the culture I had as a child," said Watt-Cloutier, referring to Inuit hunting cultures based on catching seals, bears or whales.


SALMON, OWLS

Around the Arctic, salmon are swimming into more northerly waters, hornets are buzzing north and barn owls are flying to regions where indigenous people have never even seen a barn.

Watt-Cloutier said indigenous peoples lacked well-known words for all of them.

The Arctic Climate Impact Assessment (ACIA) report says that the region is set to warm by 7-13 degrees Fahrenheit by 2100, twice the rate of the rest of the globe. The Arctic warms fast partly because dark ground and water, once uncovered, soak up much more heat than snow and ice.

"Overall, forests are likely to move north and displace tundra," said Terry Callaghan, a professor of Arctic ecology at the University of Lund, Sweden. "That will bring more species -- birds that nest in trees, beetles that live in bark, fungi."

The lack of words to describe newcomers does not stop at animals and plants. "Words like 'thunderstorm' don't exist because they are phenomena indigenous peoples have never known," said Robert Corell, chair of the ACIA study.

[halva]

Jim can't you perhaps turn down the volume a little on all this "Jews" stuff. It adds nothing to your analysis and if you can't specify exactly which entity is doing what it's better not saying anything or else finding another way of making your point.

All you do is motivate the trash that are hanging around this board and have already staged organized attacks on other forums in our network.

[jayreynolds]

Don't be mislead by the charlatans, shysters, and scammers around here. The shift of refinery operations toward aluminum is real and being pushed along by places like Oak Ridge. They make money on improving the Al operations and sciences.
And you can even see some of the specialness of Al in catalytic methods---water, sulfur removal methods below. Just a slight jump from chemtrails technology. Really close.
There is nothing like a nice Columbo style mystery on "Who Done It" on murdering the environment. Logic shows the oil industry is despirately trying to get the sulfur out of oil products, and aluminum is the special fix. Aluminum fixes the sulfur in the refineries, but somehow, using crooked Zionist logic, it can't possibly be tied to chemtrails. Such flawed logic these Con-men attempt to ply.
They claim it is impossible to Aluminum to react with surfur in the skies, where the real problems of SOx appears. Columbo says he smells con artists at work.

Well, Jim, I guess you had to work till all hours to google up something regarding aluminum and try and connect it to jet fuel.

Too bad it doesn't work that way.

The activated alumina IS in fact used in refineries to extract sulfur from the crude oil stream using the Claus process. When I worked at Hess oil company twelve years ago(and certainly Jim knows Hess is a JEW-OWNED company), we did in fact reduce sulfur in our products.

There are several reasons why.

Number one priority in business is to make profit. High sulfur feedstocks are inherently tough to refine, and sour crudes are therefore cheaper. Cheaper raw material means lower input costs. Low sulfur end products are sold at a premium, maximizing profits. The elemental sulfur, when removed, is a valuable by product once recovered and sold. These facts combined allowed us to make a reasonable profit.

Now, as far as alumina catalysts go, let's examine their role. A catalyst is a substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction without being consumed in the reaction. While he didn't exactly state that aluminum gets into jet fuel through catalysts, except to say he got "really close", the exact opposite is true in the case of sulfur recovery using catalysts!

In fact, the catalysts are NOT CONSUMED, and therefore do not enter the product stream.
They consist of spherical shaped ceramic balls which eventually get fouled and are shipped back to the manufacturer for cleaning and then returned to service.. But don't take my word for any of this, it can be confirmed by anyone who works at a refinery.

End of discussion.

However, Jim has already claimed that there is a fuel additive which contains trimethyl aluminum, but never got around to showing proof that it exists, or is even in jet fuel, or the chemical reaction which would create alum in combustion, as he also claimed.

Where are these explanations, Jim? Your people cry out for knowledge, all you say have given them is "really close", but as my discussion shows above, not even close at all, rather, false.

By the way, if you chemmies wanted to get closer to REALITY, and perhaps Wayne should have my buddy Chem11 scrutinize this, I'd be happy to discuss it.
http://www.qinetiq.com/home/core_skills/future_systems_technologies/fstenergy/fuels_lubes/aviaiton_fuels_committee.Par.0012.File.pdf

[gaiacomm]

US Marines soon to be beheaded!
Five US Soldiers, Four Afghans Killed In Taliban Attacks
Nov 24, 2004
By Syed Ullah, JUS

In news just in, JUS has learned that five US soldiers and four Afghan puppet policemen have reportedly been killed in separate Taliban attacks in Nangarhar and Khost provinces.

Taliban spokesman Latif ullah Hakeem said that the five US soldiers were killed in Chparhar district of Nangarhar province when their tank hit a landmine planted on the road by Taliban Mujahideen.

The four Afghan police were killed in another landmine explosion in the Khost province when they were patrolling the Mosakhel district. The Afghan government denied that the incident was a Taliban attack however both Mujahideen groups working in the area have claimed responsibility.

Rockets were also fired overnight at Bagram airbase however the extent of the damage is unknown and no other details are available.

Occupation Forces Launch “Massive” Offensive Against Taliban

Occupation forces have launched an offensive the Taliban in Jalalabad according to David Barno of the commander-in-chief of coalition troops who spoke with reporters in Kabul.

"As the operations in Jalalabad continue, you will have more details we can provide you through our press elements"

Barno would not go into detail but said occupation forces had a successful operation last week, killing a number of “militants”. (JUS)

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Oh My,

More lies from Jewish JR, from the land of the Dallas Jews and big oil that killed JFK.

JR falsely states (which is so very typical of his and his ilk's methods) that:

"However, Jim has already claimed that there is a fuel additive which contains trimethyl aluminum"

"is" stated there was a hint of a chemtrails method in the form of a rocket test using TMA, there was nothing claimed on TMA used in jet fuel. TMA was an example for nano-particle aluminum released to the atmosphere that involves the Al seeding technique. One of the first ideas for such a method. All clearly stated, which makes the JR claim above a lie.

JR caught lying again. How many times does this make-22,000 since 1963?

"is" said there were special Al compounds that do work well in jet fuels.

Chemtrail methods are not limited to jet engine methods, as there are several methods. I also clearly stated that the ultimate idea on chemtrail methods was to use the refineries themselves to get aluminum into the jet fuels.

Interesting this close "We" association that JR has with the oil industry that screw up the planet with man-made releases of CO2, sulfur, and other sooty global warming nasties. Even more interesting the time he puts into this debunker web page of his for his big oil "We" buddies. And the pictures of Atlas and Labyrinth, all big national security linked symbols.

Tell us about the real story for the labyrinth, and the load you carry for the Dallas oil buddies.
This is your web page photo call sign, isn't it: http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/

Tell us of your road to Jerusalem JR:
===
http://www.lessons4living.com/chartres_labyrinth.htm

This labyrinth was meant to be walked but is reported to be infrequently used today. In the past it could be walked as a pilgrimage and/or for repentance. As a pilgrimage it was a questing, searching journey with the hope of becoming closer to God. When used for repentance the pilgrims would walk on their knees. Sometimes this eleven-circuit labyrinth would serve as a substitute for an actual pilgrimage to Jerusalem and as a result came to be called the "Chemin de Jerusalem" or Road of Jerusalem.
===

Tell us the Greek form and Masonic Egypian form also.

I guess we are left to wonder who pays him for all that hard work and spending all this time on the internet.

Tell everyone JR of all the many aluminum processes used by refineries --- there are lots of patented Al processes to boost the yeilds of processes.

And do tell us about all the metals contamination in the oil refining processes.


And lets get into your involvement with the submarine detection monitoring system, which points to a high level association with the Navy and national security types that like to run cover ups and diversions. And even associations to Sea Wolf type systems, which ORNL is highly involved.

Some things are obvious, like the agenda of JR and his ilk. And of course, the continual stream of lies for the "We" of the big oil world.

IMHO,
is

[gaiacomm]

16 Allawi Troops Killed In Baghdad
Nov 24, 2004
By Muhammad Abu Nasr, Free Arab Voice; Edited by JUS

The Allawi so-called “Iraqi national guard” on Tuesday afternoon launched a series of attacks targeting civilians on Sahat at-Tala’i‘ [Vanguards’ Square] in the al-Karah district of Baghdad. The Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent reported that Allawi troops arrested 23 Iraqi civilians.

Iraqi Resistance forces attacked the puppet “national guards” and fighting erupted. Six pf the puppet guards were shot dead by Iraqi Resistance sharp shooters. Ten other puppet guards were killed when an Iraqi Resistance RPG7 grenade struck their troop transport.

Midday Bomb Attack In Salman Bak

An Iraqi Resistance bomb exploded under a Humvee in the Salman Bak area at midday on Tuesday, destroying the Humvee and reportedly killing three US troops and wounding one other American soldier.

Afternoon Bomb Attack In Al-‘Amiriyah

At about 3:30pm Tuesday afternoon an Iraqi Resistance bomb exploded in al-‘Amiriyah in Baghdad and destroyed a Humvee, killing three US troops. An Iraqi Resistance bomb exploded in the path of a US patrol in the al-‘Amiriyah area of Baghdad at 3:30pm Tuesday afternoon, destroying a Humvee and killing two US troops and wounding three other American soldiers.

At 4:45pm Tuesday, a heavy Iraqi Resistance bomb exploded under a US Bradley armored vehicle in al-‘Amiriyah, destroying the vehicle and killing three US soldiers and wounding two others.

Morning Attack In Ar-Ridwaniyah

At 9:30am Tuesday morning, Iraqi Resistance forces detonated a bomb in the path of a US patrol in the al-Fattuh area of ar-Ridwaniyah, destroying a Bradley armored vehicle and killing one US soldier.

Midday Attack In As-Suwayrah

At 12:30pm Tuesday an Iraqi Resistance bomb exploded in as-Suwayrah south of Baghdad destroying a Humvee. No other details could be confirmed

Attacks In Al-Ghazaliyah

An Iraqi Resistance bomb exploded in the path of a US truck lo