Does The Iranian President Read AO?

[mickey]

Iran leader: Move Israel to Europe

Ahmadinejad casts doubt on Holocaust




TEHRAN, Iran (Reuters) -- Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has expressed doubt that the Holocaust occurred and suggested Israel be moved to Europe.

His comments, reported by Iran's official IRNA news agency from a news conference he gave on Thursday in the Saudi Arabian city of Mecca, follow his call in October for Israel to be "wiped off the map," which sparked widespread international condemnation.

"Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail," IRNA quoted Ahmadinejad as saying.

"Although we don't accept this claim, if we suppose it is true, our question for the Europeans is: is the killing of innocent Jewish people by Hitler the reason for their support to the occupiers of Jerusalem?" he said.

"If the Europeans are honest they should give some of their provinces in Europe -- like in Germany, Austria or other countries -- to the Zionists and the Zionists can establish their state in Europe. You offer part of Europe and we will support it."

Historians say six million Jews were killed in the Nazi Holocaust. Ahmadinejad's remarks drew swift rebukes from Israel and Washington.

"This is not the first time, unfortunately, that the Iranian president has expressed the most outrageous ideas concerning Jews and Israel," said Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev.

"He is not just Israel's problem. He is a worry for the entire international community," he added.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said: "It just further underscores our concerns about the regime in Iran and it's all the more reason why it's so important that the regime not have the ability to develop nuclear weapons."

[/url][url=""] ("")Once allies

Religious hardliners in Iran do not publicly deny the Holocaust occurred but say its scale has been exaggerated to justify the creation of Israel and continued Western support for it.

Close allies when Iran was ruled by the U.S.-backed Shah, Iran and Israel have become implacable foes since Iran's 1979 Islamic revolution.

Israel accuses Iran of giving arms and funding to militant Palestinian groups such as Islamic Jihad and of building nuclear weapons. Iran denies the charges.

Tehran calls Israel a "terrorist state" and has developed missiles which can reach it. It says it would use them if Israel, itself believed to be nuclear-armed, tried to bomb Iranian nuclear facilities.

Earlier in his remarks, the Iranian president, a former Revolutionary Guardsman who won a surprise election victory in June, said:

"The question is, where do those who rule in Palestine as occupiers come from? Where were they born? Where did their fathers live? They have no roots in Palestine but they have taken the fate of Palestine in their hands.

"Isn't the right to national self-determination one of the principles of the United Nations charter? Why do they deprive Palestinians of this right?"

Jews trace their roots in Israel back to Biblical times.

Ahmadinejad concluded his remarks by reiterating Iran's proposal that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict be resolved via a referendum of all the inhabitants of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank as well as Palestinian refugees in neighboring countries.

"Whatever they decide will be accepted by all humanity. This is a clear democratic solution which is based on international principles," he said.

[jayreynolds]

The Iranians ought to be asked about their own treatment of the Kurds, a Sunni muslim minority who they oppress in their own country. While Dr. Rice does her best to be a conciliator in the Israeli/palestinian situation, and the US has successfully helped the Kurds establish a "homeland" on their ancestral lands, it is starting to look more and more like the Iranians want to be a part of the problem, rather than the solution.

Of course, such comments by the Iranian are probably for domestic consumption, as the young people of Iran must be inculcated with hate-filled emotional rhetoric in order to distract them away from watching Britney Spears and their other US pop idols.

[whitemajikman]

The Holocaust: Let's Hear Both Sides
By Mark Weber
Nearly everyone has heard that the Germans killed some six million Jews in Europe during the Second World War. American television, motion pictures, newspapers and magazines hammer away on this theme. In Washington, DC, an enormous official Holocaust Museum has been built.

Scholars Challenge Holocaust Story
During the past decade, though, more and more "revisionist" historians, including respected scholars such as Dr. Arthur Butz of Northwestern University, Prof. Robert Faurisson of the University of Lyon in France and best-selling British historian David Irving, have been challenging the widely-accepted extermination story.

They do not dispute the fact that large numbers of Jews were deported to concentration camps and ghettos, or that many Jews died or were killed during the Second World War. Revisionist scholars have, however, presented considerable evidence to show that there was no German program to exterminate Europe's Jews, that numerous claims of mass killings in "gas chambers" are false, and that the estimate of six million Jewish wartime dead is an irresponsible exaggeration.

Many Holocaust Claims Abandoned
Revisionists point out that the Holocaust story has changed quite a lot over the years. Many extermination claims that were once widely accepted have been quietly dropped in recent years.

At one time it was alleged that the Germans gassed Jews at Dachau, Buchenwald and other concentration camps in Germany proper. That part of the extermination story proved so untenable that it was abandoned more than 20 years ago.

No serious historian now supports the once supposedly proven story of "extermination camps" in the territory of the old German Reich. Even famed "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal has acknowledged that "there were no extermination camps on German soil." [1]

Prominent Holocaust historians now claim that masses of Jews were gassed at just six camps in what is now Poland: Auschwitz, Majdanek, Treblinka, Sobibor, Chelmno and Belzec. However, the "evidence" presented for "gassings" at these six camps is not qualitatively different than the "evidence" for alleged "gassings" at the camps in Germany proper.

At the great Nuremberg trial of 1945-1946 and during the decades following the end of the Second World War, Auschwitz (especially Auschwitz-Birkenau) and Majdanek (Lublin) were generally regarded as the most important "death camps." For example, the Allies alleged at Nuremberg that the Germans killed four million at Auschwitz and another 1.5 million at Majdanek. Today, no reputable historian accepts these fantastic figures.

In addition, more and more striking evidence has been presented in recent years that simply cannot be reconciled with the allegations of mass exterminations at these camps. For example, detailed aerial reconnaissance photographs taken of Auschwitz-Birkenau on several random days in 1944 (during the height of the alleged extermination period there) were made public by the CIA in 1979. They show no trace of the piles of corpses, smoking chimneys and masses of Jews awaiting death, all of which have been alleged and would have been clearly visible if Auschwitz had indeed been an extermination center.

We now also know that the postwar "confession" of Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss, which is a crucial part of the Holocaust extermination story, is a false statement that was obtained by torture. [2]

Other Absurd Holocaust Claims
At one time it was also seriously claimed that the Germans exterminated Jews with electricity and steam, and that they manufactured soap from Jewish corpses. For example, at Nuremberg the United States charged that the Germans killed Jews at Treblinka, not in gas chambers, as is now claimed, but by steaming them to death in "steam chambers." [3]

Such bizarre stories have also been quietly abandoned in recent years.

Disease Claimed Many Inmates
The Holocaust extermination story is superficially plausible. Everyone has seen the horrific photos of dead and dying inmates taken at Bergen-Belsen, Nordhausen and other concentration camps when they were liberated by British and American forces in the final weeks of the war in Europe. These unfortunate people were victims, not of an extermination program, but of disease and malnutrition brought on by the complete collapse of Germany in the final months of the war. Indeed, if there had been an extermination program, the Jews found by Allied forces at the end of the war would have long since been killed.

In the face of the advancing Soviet forces, large numbers of Jews were evacuated during the final months of the war from eastern camps and ghettos to the remaining camps in western Germany. These camps quickly became terribly overcrowded, which severely hampered efforts to prevent the spread of epidemics. Furthermore, the breakdown of the German transportation system made it impossible to supply adequate food and medicine to the camps.

Captured German Documents
At the end of the Second World War, the Allies confiscated a tremendous quantity of German documents dealing with Germany's wartime Jewish policy, which was sometimes officially referred to as the "final solution." But not a single German document has ever been found which even refers to an extermination program. To the contrary, the documents clearly show that the German "final solution" policy was one of emigration and deportation, not extermination.

Consider, for example, the confidential German Foreign Office memorandum of August 21, 1942. [4] "The present war gives Germany the opportunity and also the duty of solving the Jewish problem in Europe," the memorandum notes. The policy "to promote the evacuation of the Jews [from Europe] in closest cooperation with the agencies of the Reichsführer SS [Himmler] is still in force." The memo noted that "the number of Jews deported in this way to the East did not suffice to cover the labor needs."

The document quotes German Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop as saying that "at the end of this war, all Jews would have to leave Europe. This was an unalterable decision of the Führer [Hitler] and also the only way to master this problem, as only a global and comprehensive solution could be applied and individual measures would not help very much."

The memorandum concludes by stating that the "deportations [of Jews to the East] are a further step on the way of the total solution ... The deportation to the [Polish] General Government is a temporary measure. The Jews will be moved on further to the occupied [Soviet] eastern territories as soon as the technical conditions for it are given."

This unambiguous document, and others like it, are routinely suppressed or ignored by those who uphold the Holocaust extermination story.

Unreliable Testimony
Holocaust historians rely heavily on so-called "survivor testimony" to support the extermination story. But such "evidence" is notoriously unreliable. As one Jewish historian has pointed out, "most of the memoirs and reports [of "Holocaust survivors"] are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies." [5]

Hitler and the 'Final Solution'
There is no documentary evidence that Adolf Hitler ever gave an order to exterminate the Jews, or that he knew of any extermination program. Instead, the record shows that the German leader wanted the Jews to leave Europe, by emigration if possible and by deportation if necessary.

A document found after the war in the files of the Reich Ministry of Justice records his thinking on the Jews. In the spring of 1942, State Secretary Schlegelberger noted in a memorandum that Hitler's Chief of Chancellery, Dr. Hans Lammers, had informed him: "The Führer has repeatedly declared to him [Lammers] that he wants to see the solution of the Jewish problem postponed until after the war is over." [6]

And on July 24, 1942, Hitler emphasized his determination to remove all Jews from Europe after the war: "The Jews are interested in Europe for economic reasons, but Europe must reject them, if only out of self-interest, because the Jews are racially tougher. After this war is over, I will rigorously hold to the view ... that the Jews will have to leave and emigrate to Madagascar or some other Jewish national state." [7]

Himmler's SS and the Camps
Jews were an important part of Germany's wartime labor force, and it was in Germany's interest to keep them alive.

CONTINUED.......

[whitemajikman]

The head of the SS camp administration office sent a directive dated Dec. 28, 1942, to every concentration camp, including Auschwitz. It sharply criticized the high death rate of inmates due to disease, and ordered that "camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to significantly reduce the death rate in the various camps." Furthermore, it ordered: "The camp doctors must supervise more often than in the past the nutrition of the prisoners and, in cooperation with the administration, submit improvement recommendations to the camp commandants ... The camp doctors are to see to it that the working conditions at the various labor places are improved as much as possible."

Finally, the directive stressed that "The Reichsführer SS [Himmler] has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced." [8]

The head of the SS department that supervised the concentration camps, Richard Gluecks, sent a circular letter to each camp commandant dated January 20, 1943. In it he ordered: "As I have already pointed out, every means must be used to lower the death rate in the camp." [9]

Six Million?
There is no real evidence for the incessantly repeated claim that the Germans exterminated six million Jews. It is clear, though, that millions of Jews "survived" German rule during the Second World War, including many who were interned in Auschwitz and other so-called "extermination camps." This fact alone should raise serious doubts about the extermination story.

A leading newspaper of neutral Switzerland, the daily Baseler Nachrichten, carefully estimated in June 1946 that no more than 1.5 million European Jews could have perished under German rule during the war. [10]

One-Sided 'Holocaustomania'
Even after more than 40 years, the stream of Holocaust films and books shows no sign of diminishing.

This relentless media campaign, which Jewish historian Alfred Lilienthal calls "Holocaustomania," portrays the fate of the Jews during the Second World War as the central event of history. There is no end to the heavy-handed motion pictures, the simplistic television specials, the vindictive hunt for "Nazi war criminals," the one-sided "educational courses," and the self-righteous appearances by politicians and celebrities at Holocaust "memorial services."

Britain's chief rabbi, Immanuel Jakobovits, has accurately described the Holocaust campaign as "an entire industry, with handsome profits for writers, researchers, film-makers, monument builders, muse-um planners and even politicians." He added that some rabbis and theologians are "partners in this big business." [11]

Non-Jewish victims just don't merit the same concern. For example, there are no American memorials, "study centers," or annual observances for Stalin's victims, who vastly outnumber Hitler's.

Who Benefits?
The perpetual Holocaust media blitz is routinely used to justify enormous American support for Israel and to excuse otherwise inexcusable Israeli policies, even when they conflict with American interests.

The sophisticated and well-financed Holocaust media campaign is crucially important to the interests of Israel, which owes its existence to massive annual subsidies from American taxpayers. As Prof. W.D. Rubinstein of Australia has candidly acknowledged: "If the Holocaust can be shown to be a ÔZionist myth,' the strongest of all weapons in Israel's propaganda armory collapses." [12]

Jewish history teacher Paula Hyman of Columbia University has observed: "With regard to Israel, the Holocaust may be used to forestall political criticism and suppress debate; it reinforces the sense of Jews as an eternally beleaguered people who can rely for their defense only upon themselves. The invocation of the suffering endured by the Jews under the Nazis often takes the place of rational argument, and is expected to convince doubters of the legitimacy of current Israeli government policy." [13]

One major reason that the Holocaust story has proven so durable is that the governments of the major powers also have a vested interest in maintaining it. The victorious powers of the Second World War -- the United States, Soviet Russia and Britain -- have a stake in portraying the defeated Hitler regime as negatively as possible. The more evil and satanic the Hitler regime appears, the more noble and justified seems the Allied cause.

For many Jews, the Holocaust has become both a flourishing business and a kind of new religion, as noted Jewish author and newspaper publisher Jacobo Timerman points out in his book, The Longest War. He reports that many Israelis, using the word Shoah, which is Hebrew for Holocaust, joke that "There's no business like Shoah business." [14]

The Holocaust media campaign portrays Jews as totally innocent victims, and non-Jews as morally retarded and unreliable beings who can easily turn into murderous Nazis under the right circumstances. This self-serving but distorted portrayal is meant to strengthen Jewish group solidarity and self-awareness.

A key lesson of the Holocaust story for Jews is that non-Jews are never completely trustworthy. If a people as cultured and as educated as the Germans could turn against the Jews, so the thinking goes, than surely no non-Jewish nation can ever be completely trusted. The Holocaust message is thus one of contempt for humanity.

Holocaust Hatemongering
The Holocaust story is sometimes used to promote hatred and hostility, particularly against the German people as a whole, eastern Europeans and the leadership of the Roman Catholic church.

The well-known Jewish writer, Elie Wiesel, is a former Auschwitz inmate who served as chairman of the official U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council. He received the 1986 Nobel Peace Prize. This dedicated Zionist wrote in his book, Legends of Our Time: "Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set apart a zone of hate -- healthy, virile hate -- for what the German personifies and for what persists in the German." [15]

Let Both Sides Be Heard
As even defenders of the orthodox extermination story concede, skepticism about the Holocaust story has grown dramatically in recent years.

Responding to this trend, officials in some countries -- including France and Israel -- have made it a crime to challenge the Holocaust story. Revisionists in France and Germany have been heavily fined for their views. Teachers in the United States and elsewhere have been summarily dismissed from their positions for daring to doubt the Holocaust story. Criminal thugs have brutally attacked prominent Holocaust revisionists; one was even killed for his views.

In spite of desperate restrictions on free speech, frantic media attacks against those who "deny the Holocaust," a seemingly perpetual Holocaust media campaign, and even physical attacks, considerable headway is being made. More and more thoughtful people in the United States and around the world are willing to express doubts about at least some of the more sensational Holocaust claims.

Summary
The Holocaust extermination story is breaking down as suppressed evidence becomes better known, and as more people become aware of the facts about what is certainly the most hyped and politicized chapter of modern history.

Artificially maintaining the hatreds and passions of the past prevents genuine reconciliation and lasting peace.

Revisionism promotes historical awareness and international understanding. That's why the work of the Institute for Historical Review is so important and deserves your support.

Notes
Books and Bookmen, London, April 1975, p. 5, and in Stars and Stripes (Europe), Jan. 24, 1993, p. 14.
Ruper Butler, Legions of Death (England: 1983), pp. 235-237, and R. Faurisson, Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1986-87, pp. 389-403.
Nuremberg document PS-3311 (USA-293). IMT blue series, Vol. 32, pp. 153-158; IMT, Vol. 3, pp. 566- 568.; NMT green series, Vol. 5, pp. 1133, 1134.
Nuremberg document NG-2586-J. NMT green series, Vol. 13, pp. 243-249.
Samuel Gringauz in Jewish Social Studies (New York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65.
Nuremberg document PS-4025. D. Irving, Göring: A Biography (New York: 1989), p. 349.
H. Picker, Hitlers Tischgesprche im Führerhaupt quartier (Stuttgart: 1976), p. 456.
Nuremberg document PS-2171, Annex 2; NC and A red series, Vol. 4, pp. 833-834.
Nuremberg document NO-1523; NMT green series, Vol. 5, pp. 372-373.
Baseler Nachrichten, June 13, 1946, p. 2.
H. Shapiro, "Jakobovits," Jerusalem Post (Israel), Nov. 26, 1987, p. 1.
Quadrant (Australia), Sept. 1979, p. 27.
New York Times Magazine, Sept. 14, 1980, p. 79.
The Longest War (New York: Vintage, 1982), p. 15.
Legends of Our Time (New York: Schocken Books, 1982), chap. 12, p. 142.

WMM

[Dingo]

Whiteman seems to have a little trouble with links. He seems to think that spamming the crap out of the board is going to move his Jew hate agenda down the field.

Here I think is a reasonable clearinghouse on Auschwitz. The number of Jewish deaths there is difficult to determine but appears roughly to be 1 million to 2 million. This business of being required to accept the figure of at least 4 million or be labeled an anti-Semite is so much hogwash.

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/holocaust/auschwitz/part01/


This link seriously addresses in general the whole issue of holocaust denial
http://www.answers.com/topic/holocaust-denial

Wikipedia does a study on Leuchter the holocaust-denial "expert" who claims there were no Nazi gas chambers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_A._Leuchter

[whitemajikman]

Dingo who first coined the TERM "holocaust revisionism".......? and who first coined the Phrase "holocaust deniers"........?

maybe you can use wikipedia to try and find out.........

what you will find might astonish you.........and maybe it won't..........

WMM

[whitemajikman]

The "Liberation of the Camps": FACTS vs. LIES

By Theodore J. O'Keefe

Nothing has been more effective in establishing the authenticity of the Holocaust in the minds of Americans than the terrible scenes U.S. GI's discovered when they entered the German concentration camps at the close of World War II.

At Dachau, Buchenwald, Dora, Mauthausen, and other work and detention camps, horrified American infantrymen encountered heaps of dead and dying inmates, emaciated and diseased. Survivors told them hair-raising stories of torture and slaughter, and backed up their claims by showing the GI's crematory ovens, alleged gas chambers, supposed implements of torture, even shrunken heads and lampshades, gloves, and handbags purportedly made from skin flayed from dead inmates.

U.S. government authorities, mindful that most Americans, who remembered the atrocity stories fed them during World War I, still doubted the Allied propaganda directed against the Hitler regime, resolved to "document" what the GI's had found in he camps. Prominent newsmen and politicians were flown in to see the harrowing evidence, while the U.S. Army Signal Corps filmed and photographed the scenes for posterity. The famous journalist Edward R. Murrow reported, in tones of horror, but no longer of disbelief, what he had been told and shown, and Dachau and Buchenwald were branded on the hearts and minds of the American populace as names of infamy unmatched in the sad and bloody history of this planet.

For Americans, what was "discovered" at the camps - the dead and the diseased, the terrible stories of the inmates, all the props of torture and terror - became the basis not simply of a transitory propaganda campaign but of the conviction that is, it true: the Germans exterminated six million Jews, most of them in lethal gas chambers. What the GI's found was used, by way of films which were mandatory viewing for the vanquished populace of Germany, to "re-educate" the German people by destroying their national pride and their will to a united, independent national state, imposing in their place overwhelming feelings of collective guilt and political impotence. And when the testimony, and the verdict, at Nuremberg incorporated most, if not all, of the horror stories Americans were told about Dachau, Buchenwald, and other places captured by the U.S. Army, the Holocaust could pass for one of the most documented, one of the most authenticated, one of the most proven historical episodes in the human record.

A Different Reality

But it is known today that, very soon after the liberation of the camps, American authorities were aware that the real story of the camps was quite different from the one in which they were coaching military public information officers, government spokesmen, politicians, journalists, and other mouthpieces.

When American and British forces overran western and central Germany in the spring of 1945, they were followed by troops charged with discovering and securing any evidence of German war crimes. Among them was Dr. Charles Larson, one of America's leading forensic pathologists, who was assigned to the Judge Advocate General's Department. Dr. Larson performed autopsies at Dachau and some twenty other German camps, examining on some days more than 100 corpses. After his grim work at Dachau, he was questioned for three days by U.S. Army prosecutors.1

Dr. Larson's findings? According to an interview he gave to an American journalist in 1980, "What we've heard is that six million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax."2 And what part was the hoax? Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his knowledge he "was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the entire European Theater,"3 informed "Wichita Eagle" reporter Jan Floerchinger that "never was a case of poison gas uncovered."4 Neither Dr. Larson nor any other forensic specialist has ever been cited by any Holocaust historian to substantiate a single case of death by poison gas, whether Zyklon-B or any other variety.

Typhus Killed Inmates, Not Poison Gas

If not by gassing, how did the unfortunate victims at Dachau, Buchenwald, and Bergen-Belsen perish? Were they tortured to death? Deliberately starved? The answers to these questions are known as well. As Dr. Larson and other Allied medical men discovered, the chief cause of death at Dachau, Belsen, and the other camps was disease, above all typhus, an old and terrible scourge of mankind which until recently flourished in places where populations were crowded together in circumstances where public health measures were unknown or had broken down. Such was the case in the overcrowded internment camps in Germany at war's end, where, despite such measures as systematic delousing, quarantine of the sick, and cremation of the dead, the virtual collapse of Germany's food, transport, and public health systems led to catastrophe.

Perhaps the most authoritative statement of the facts as to typhus and mortality in the camps has been made by Dr. John E. Gordon, M.D., Ph.D., a professor of preventive medicine and epidemiology at the Harvard University School of Public Health who was with U.S. forces in Germany in 1945. Dr. Gordon reported in 1948 that "The outbreaks in concentration camps and prisons made up the great bulk of typhus infection encountered in Germany." Dr. Gordon summarized the causes for the outbreaks as follows:

Germany was in chaos. The destruction of whole cities and the path left by advancing armies produced a disruption of living conditions contributing to the spread of the disease. Sanitation was low grade, public utilities were seriously disrupted food supply and food distribution was poor, housing was inadequate and order and discipline were everywhere lacking. Still more important, a shifting of populations was occurring such as few countries and few times have experienced. 5

Dr. Gordon's findings are corroborated by Dr. Russel Barton, today a psychiatrist of international repute, who entered Bergen-Belsen with British forces as a young medical student in 1945. Barton, who volunteered to care for the diseased survivors, testified under sworn oath in a Toronto courtroom in 1985 that "Thousands of prisoners who died at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp during World War II weren't deliberately starved to death but died from a rash of diseases." 6 Dr. Barton further testified that on entering the camp he had credited stories of deliberate starvations but had decided such stories were untrue after inspecting the well-equipped kitchens and the meticulously maintained ledgers, dating back to 1942, of food cooked and dispensed each day. Despite noisily publicized claims and widespread popular notions to the contrary, no researcher has been able to document a German policy of extermination through starvation in the German camps.

No Lampshades, No Handbags, Etc.

What of the ghoulish stories of concentration camp inmates skinned for their tattoos, flayed to make lampshades and handbags, or other artifacts? What of the innumerable "torture racks," "meat hooks," whipping posts, gallows, and other tools of torment and death that are reported to have abounded at every German camp? These allegations, and even more grotesque ones proffered by Soviet prosecutors, found their way into the record at Nuremberg.


This is a picture of a lampshade allegedly made of human skin found in Koch's apartment. The drawing had been described as a tattoo that was on a man's chest. But it's goat skin.

The lampshade and tattooed-skin charges were made against Ilse Koch, dubbed by journalists the "Bitch of Buchenwald," who was reported to have furnished her house with objects manufactured from the tanned hides of luckless inmates. But General Lucius Clay, military governor of the U.S. zone of occupied Germany, who reviewed her case in 1948, told his superiors in Washington: "There is no convincing evidence that she [Ilse Koch] selected inmates for extermination in order to secure tattooed s ins or that she possessed any articles made of human skin." 7 In an interview General Clay gave years later, he stated about the material for the infamous lampshades: "Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh. But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial." 8 Ilse Koch hanged herself in a West German jail in 1967.

continued.........at

http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/holocaust/liberation_of_the_camps.htm

[whitemajikman]

WHAT IS "HOLOCAUST DENIAL".......?



I've denied "Holocaust denial" for a long time, too long. I couldn't accept that the horrible stories and movies I had seen had been distortions and lies. Such people must be some kind of unrepentant NAZI or a racist. I would avoid even reading anything such people had to say. If there were a movie or documentary about World War II I would be drawn to see it, absorb it It lead me to wonder about the inhumanity of humanity. I bought books to read that I might understand the horror. Thoroughly programmed to believe the lie, I imagined the truth-tellers to be the liars. Until I looked at the evidence. I hope you will, too.]

In recent years, more and more attention has been devoted to the supposed danger of "Holocaust denial." Politicians, newspapers and television warn about the growing influence of those who reject the Holocaust story that some six million European Jews were systematically exterminated during the Second World War, most of them in gas chambers.

In several countries, including Israel, France, Germany and Austria, "Holocaust denial" is against the law, and "deniers" have been punished with stiff fines and prison sentences. Some frantic Jewish community leaders are calling for similar government measures in North America against so-called "deniers." In Canada, David Matas, Senior Counsel for the "League for Human Rights" of the Zionist B'nai B'rith organization, says: 1

The Holocaust was the murder of six million Jews, including two million children. Holocaust denial is a second murder of those same six million. First their lives were extinguished; then their deaths. A person who denies the Holocaust becomes part of the crime of the Holocaust itself.

Often overlooked in this controversy is the crucial question: Just what constitutes "Holocaust denial"?

Six Million?

Should someone be considered a "Holocaust denier" because he does not believe -- as Matas and others insist -- that six million Jews were killed during World War II? This figure was cited by the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg in 1945-1946. It found that "the policy pursued [by the German government] resulted in the killing of six million Jews, of which four million were killed in the extermination institutions." 2

Yet if that is so, then several of the most prominent Holocaust historians could be regarded as "deniers." Professor Raul Hilberg, author of the standard reference work, The Destruction of the European Jews, does not accept that six million Jews died. He puts the total of deaths (from all causes) at 5.1 million. Gerald Reitlinger, author of The Final Solution, likewise did not accept the six million figure. He estimated the figure of Jewish wartime dead might be as high as 4.6 million, but admitted that this was conjectural due to a lack of reliable information.

Human Soap?

Is someone a "Holocaust denier" if he says that the Nazis didn't use Jewish fat to make soap? After examining all the evidence (including an actual bar of soap supplied by the Soviets), the Nuremberg Tribunal declared in its Judgment that "in some instances attempts were made to utilize the fat from the bodies of the victims in the commercial manufacture of soap." 3

In 1990, though, Israel's official "Yad Vashem" Holocaust memorial agency "rewrote history" by admitting that the soap story was not true. "Historians have concluded that soap was not made from human fat. When so many people deny the Holocaust ever happened, why give them something to use against the truth?," said Yad Vashem official Shmuel Krakowski. 4

Wannsee Conference?

Is someone a "Holocaust denier" if he does not accept that the January 1942 "Wannsee conference" of German bureaucrats was held to set or coordinate a program of systematic mass murder of Europe's Jews? If so, Israeli Holocaust historian Yehuda Bauer must be wrong -- and a "Holocaust denier" -- because he recently declared: "The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at." In Bauer's opinion, Wannsee was a meeting but "hardly a conference" and "little of what was said there was executed in detail." 5

Extermination Policy?

Is someone a "Holocaust denier" if he says that there was no order by Hitler to exterminate Europe's Jews? There was a time when the answer would have been yes. Holocaust historian Raul Hilberg, for example, wrote in the 1961 edition of his study, The Destruction of the European Jews, that there were two Hitler orders for the destruction of Europe's Jews: the first given in the spring of 1941, and the second shortly thereafter. But Hilberg removed mention of any such order from the revised, three-volume edition of his book published in 1985. 6 As Holocaust historian Christopher Browning has noted: 7

In the new edition, all references in the text to a Hitler decision or Hitler order for the "Final Solution" have been systematically excised. Buried at the bottom of a single footnote stands the solitary reference: "Chronology and circumstances point to a Hitler decision before the summer ended." In the new edition, decisions were not made and orders were not given.

A lack of hard evidence for an extermination order by Hitler has contributed to a controversy that divides Holocaust historians into "intentionalists" and "functionalists." The former contend that there was a premeditated extermination policy ordered by Hitler, while the latter hold that Germany's wartime "final solution" Jewish policy evolved at lower levels in response to circumstances. But the crucial point here is this: notwithstanding the capture of literally tons of German documents after the war, no one can point to documentary evidence of a wartime extermination order, plan or program. This was admitted by Professor Hilberg during his testimony in the 1985 trial in Toronto of German-Canadian publisher Ernst Zuendel. 8

Auschwitz

So just what constitutes "Holocaust denial"? Surely a claim that most Auschwitz inmates died from disease and not systematic extermination in gas chambers would be "denial." But perhaps not. Jewish historian Arno J. Mayer, a Princeton University professor, wrote in his 1988 study Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The 'Final Solution" in History': . . . From 1942 to 1945, certainly at Auschwitz, but probably overall, more Jews were killed by so-called 'natural' causes than by 'unnatural' ones." 9

Even estimates of the number of people who died at Auschwitz -- allegedly the main extermination center -- are no longer clear cut. At the postwar Nuremberg Tribunal, the Allies charged that the Germans exterminated four million people at Auschwitz. 10 Until 1990, a memorial plaque at Auschwitz read: "Four Million People Suffered and Died Here at the Hands of the Nazi Murderers Between the Years 1940 and 1945." 11 During a 1979 visit to the camp, Pope John Paul II stood before this memorial and blessed the four million victims.

Is it "Holocaust denial" to dispute these four million deaths? Not today. In July 1990, the Polish government's Auschwitz State Museum, along with Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust center, conceded that the four million figure was a gross exaggeration, and references to it were accordingly removed from the Auschwitz monument. Israeli and Polish officials announced a tentative revised toll of 1.1 million Auschwitz dead.12 In 1993, French Holocaust researcher Jean-Claude Pressac, in a much-discussed book about Auschwitz, estimated that altogether about 775,000 died there during the war years. 13

Professor Mayer acknowledges that the question of how many really died in Auschwitz remains open. In Why Did the Heavens Not Darken? he wrote (p. 366):

continued.......

[whitemajikman]

. . . Many questions remain open . . . All in all, how many bodies were cremated in Auschwitz? How many died there all told? What was the national, religious, and ethnic breakdown in this commonwealth of victims? How many of them were condemned to die a 'natural' death and how many were deliberately slaughtered? And what was the proportion of Jews among those murdered in cold blood among these gassed? We have simply no answers to these questions at this time.

Gas Chambers

What about denying the existence of extermination "gas chambers"? Here too, Mayer makes a startling statement (on page 362 of his book): "Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable." While Mayer believes that such chambers did exist at Auschwitz, he points out that most of what is known is based on the depositions of Nazi officials and executioners at postwar trials and on the memory of survivors and bystanders. This testimony must be screened carefully, since it can be influenced by subjective factors of great complexity.

Höss Testimony

One example of this might be the testimony of Rudolf Höss, an SS officer who served as commandant of Auschwitz. In its Judgment, the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal quoted at length from his testimony to support its findings of extermination.14

It is now well established that Höss’ crucial testimony, as well as his so-called "confession" (which was also cited by the Nuremberg Tribunal), are not only false, but were obtained by beating the former commandant nearly to death.15 Höss’ wife and children were also threatened with death and deportation to Siberia. In his statement -- which would not be admissible today in any United States court of law -- Höss claimed the existence of an extermination camp called "Wolzek." In fact, no such camp ever existed. He further claimed that during the time that he was commandant of Auschwitz, two and a half million people were exterminated there, and that a further half million died of disease.16 Today no reputable historian upholds these figures. Höss was obviously willing to say anything, sign anything and do anything to stop the torture, and to try to save himself and his family.

Forensic Investigations

In his 1988 book, Professor Mayer calls for "excavations at the killing sites and in their immediate environs" to determine more about the gas chambers. In fact, such forensic studies have been made. The first was conducted in 1988 by American execution equipment consultant, Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. He carried out an on-site forensic examination of the alleged gas chambers at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek to determine if they could have been used to kill people as claimed. After a careful study of the alleged killing facilities, Leuchter concluded that the sites were not used, and could not have been used, as homicidal gas chambers. Furthermore, an analysis of samples taken by Leuchter from the walls and floors of the alleged gas chambers showed either no traces or minuscule traces of cyanide compound from the active ingredient of Zyklon B, the pesticide allegedly used to murder Jews at Auschwitz. 17

A confidential forensic examination (and subsequent report) commissioned by the Auschwitz State Museum and conducted by Institute of Forensic Research in Krakow has confirmed Leuchter's finding that minimal or no traces of cyanide compound can be found in the sites alleged to have been gas chambers. 18

The significance of this is evident when the results of the forensic examination of the alleged homicidal gas chambers are compared with the results of the examination of the Auschwitz disinfestation facilities, where Zyklon B was used to delouse mattresses and clothing. Whereas no or only trace amounts of cyanide were found in the alleged homicidal gas chambers, massive traces of cyanide were found in the walls and floor in the camp's disinfestation delousing chambers.

Another forensic study has been carried out by German chemist Germar Rudolf. On the basis of his on-site examination and analysis of samples, the certified chemist and doctoral candidate concluded: "For chemical-technical reasons, the claimed mass gassings with hydrocyanic acid in the alleged 'gas chambers' in Auschwitz did not take place . . . The supposed facilities for mass killing in Auschwitz and Birkenau were not suitable for this purpose . . ." 19

Finally, there is the study of Austrian engineer Walter Lueftl, a respected expert witness in numerous court cases, and former president of Austria's professional association of engineers. In a 1992 report he called the alleged mass extermination of Jews in gas chambers "technically impossible." 20

Discredited Perspective

So just what constitutes "Holocaust denial"? Those who advocate criminal persecution of "Holocaust deniers" seem to be still living in the world of 1946 where the Allied officials of the Nuremberg Tribunal have just pronounced their verdict. But the Tribunal's findings can no longer be assumed to be valid. Because it relied so heavily on such untrustworthy evidence as the Höss testimony, some of its most critical findings are now discredited.

For purposes of their own, powerful special interest groups desperately seek to keep substantive discussion of the Holocaust story taboo. One of the ways they do this is by purposely mischaracterizing revisionist scholars as "deniers." But the truth can't be suppressed forever: There is a very real and growing controversy about what actually happened to Europe's Jews during World War II.

Let this issue be settled as all great historical controversies are resolved: through free inquiry and open debate in our journals, newspapers and classrooms.

Notes

Globe and Mail (Toronto), Jan. 22, 1992.
Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal (IMT "blue series"), Vol. 22, p. 496.
IMT "blue series," Vol. 22, p. 496.
Globe and Mail (Toronto), April 25, 1990; See also: M. Weber, "Jewish Soap," The Journal of Historical Review, Summer 1991.
Canadian Jewish News (Toronto), Jan. 30, 1992.
See: Barbara Kulaszka, ed., Did Six Million Really Die: Report of the Evidence in the Canadian 'False News' Trial of Ernst Zndel (Toronto: Samisdat, 1992), pp. 192, 300, 349.
"The Revised Hilberg," Simon Wiesenthal Annual, Vol. 3, 1986, p. 294.
B. Kulaszka, ed., Did Six Million Really Die (Toronto: 1992), pp. 24-25.
A. Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The 'Final Solution' in History (Pantheon, 1988), p. 365.
Nuremberg document 008-USSR.; IMT "blue series," Vol. 39, pp. 241, 261.
B. Kulaszka, ed., Did Six Million Really Die (Toronto: 1992), p. 441.
Y. Bauer, "Fighting the Distortions," Jerusalem Post (Israel), Sept. 22, 1989; Auschwitz Deaths Reduced to a Million," Daily Telegraph (London), July 17, 1990; "Poland Reduces Auschwitz Death Toll Estimate to 1 Million," The Washington Times, July 17, 1990.
J.-C. Pressac, Les Cr¦metoires d'Auschwitz: La machinerie du meurtre de masse (Paris: CNRS, 1993). See also: R. Faurisson, "Jean-Claude Pressac's New Auschwitz Book," The Journal of Historical Review, Jan.-Feb. 1994, p. 24.
IMT "blue series," Vol. 22, p. 485; Nuremberg document 3868-PS (USA-819), in IMT "blue series," Vol. 33, pp. 275-279.
Rupert Butler, Legions of Death (England: 1983), pp. 235-237; C. Hitchens, "Whose History is it?," Vanity Fair (New York), Dec. 1993, p. 117.
See: R. Faurisson, "How the British Obtained the Confession of Rudolf Hoess," The Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1986-87, pp. 389-403.
A deluxe edition of The Leuchter Report is available from the IHR for $20.00, plus $2.00 shipping.
The complete text of this report was published in English in The Journal of Historical Review, Summer 1991.
G. Rudolf, Gutachten ueber die Bildung und Nachweisbarkeit von Cyanidverbindungen in den 'Gaskammern' von Auschwitz (London: 1993). See: The Journal of Historical Review, Nov.-Dec. 1993, pp. 25-26.
"The 'Lueftl Report'," The Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1992-93.

[mickey]

Mr. Naturei Karta, who do you associate with more, the Israeli leaders or the Iranian leaders?

[whitemajikman]

Mr. Naturei Karta, who do you associate with more, the Israeli leaders or the Iranian leaders?

NONE OF THE ABOVE.......

BECAUSE BOTH LEADERSHIPS ARE CRIMINAL.....

WMM

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Associate with Jesus, he was Jewish and a pretty good fellow.

Even Islam says he was profit.

Most of the US kinda likes what he had to say.

And even Messianic Jews.


How more politically correct can a person be, then Jesus.


Get used to it. Jesus is making a comeback.

[jayreynolds]

Fallout, blowback, whatever you want to call it.
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=Ahmadinejad&btnG=Search+News

[Bertrand]

Mr. Naturei Karta, who do you associate with more, the Israeli leaders or the Iranian leaders?

Pray tell us the difference between the Israeli and Iranian leaders... other than what the record clearly shows who is openly more violent, brutal, and daring... supported by successive American administrations.

Any label hurling by you... in lieu of responding like a rational thinking person... only would confirm your bias.

[Bertrand]

Last update - 15:40 10/12/2005
Iran's Supreme Ruler Backs President
By News Agencies

Iran's supreme ruler came out in support of his maligned president on Saturday, who created an international storm by demanding Israel be moved to Europe and casting doubt on whether the Holocaust happened.

"The unusual sensitivity of Zionists and their American supporters toward Iran's stance over the Zionist state reveals their increased weakness and fear about the level of attention given by Islamic nations to the Palestinian issue," state-run Iranian radio quoted Ayatollah Ali Khamenei as saying.

"Despite the Zionist's campaign, the struggle against the occupiers has become an old and thick tree in the Islamic world such that the arrogant powers could not sever its roots," he added.

Khamenei did not refer specifically to Ahmadinejad's remarks made Thursday in Saudi Arabia on the sidelines of a Saudi Arabian summit of more than 50 Islamic nations, convened to show a Muslim front against terrorism.

But the United States, Israel, Europe, United Nations and even Iranian ally Russia condemned Ahmadinejad for casting doubt on whether the Nazi Holocaust took place and suggesting Europe give land for a Jewish state if it felt guilty about it.

Khamenei has ultimate say on all issues in Iran and backed similar controversial remarks made in October by Ahmadinejad, who said Israel should be "wiped off the map."

Ahmadinejad emerged from the hard-line establishment as a surprise victor in June elections on a platform of helping Iran's poor and a return to the values of the 1979 Islamic Revolution.

Since taking office, he has pushed hard-core rhetoric recalling the revolution's leader Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

Iran plans to hold an international conference on "Support Palestine's Islamic Revolution" in April 2006.

Nobel peace laureate and UN nuclear watchdog agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei appeared to warn Israel not to bomb Iranian atomic facilities in a newspaper interview published Saturday.

"You cannot use force to prevent a country from obtaining nuclear weapons. By bombing them half to death, you can only delay the plans," ElBaradei was quoted as saying by the Oslo newspaper Aftenposten. "But they will come back, and they will demand revenge."

ElBaradei was in the Norwegian capital to accept the Nobel Peace Prize awarded jointly to him and the International Atomic Energy Agency.

The report said ElBaradei did not mention Israel but it was clear he was referring to Israel's increasingly open discussion over whether to protect itself by bombing Iranian facilities it suspects are being used in a possible secret nuclear weapons program.

Mofaz: Israel needs 'other' solutions to Iranian threat

Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said Saturday he was not interested in discussing the Iranian issue.

"We have made it clear that the policy of the state of Israel is to put the Iran issue to the Security Council and that the diplomatic channel is the proper one to deal with this matter at this time," he told Israel Radio.

However, on Friday Mofaz spoke harshly against Ahmadenijad saying Israel must prepare solutions "other than diplomatic" in the face of Tehran's persistent advancement of its nuclear program. (Never trust these Zionist radicals... they often speak one thing while their intent is killing and destruction instead... B.)

Speaking on a visit to the market at Hatikva neighborhood in Tel Aviv, Mofaz said, "the right move would be to let a diplomatic approach guide us, but we must also prepare other solutions."

The defense minister referred to Ahmadenijad as an "Israel hater" adding that "the combination of extreme hatred and nuclear capabilities certainly threatens the State of Israel and Western countries."

Mofaz commented on a speech Ahmadenijad made on Thursday in which he questioned the extent of the Holocaust and suggested Israel be moved to Europe.

World leaders, including UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, condemned these remarks.

"Some European countries insist on saying that Hitler killed millions of innocent Jews in furnaces and they insist on it to the extent that if anyone proves something contrary to that they condemn that person and throw them in jail," the IRNA news agency quoted Ahmadinejad as saying. "We don't accept this claim," he said.

"If the Europeans are honest they should give some of their provinces in Europe - like in Germany, Austria or other countries - to the Zionists and the Zionists can establish their state in Europe," he said at a conference in Saudi Arabia on Thursday. "You offer part of Europe and we will support it."

Annan expresses shock

Annan expressed shock at the comments and pointed to a UN General Assembly resolution last month that rejected "any denial of the Holocaust as an historical event, either in full or in part."

He urged all UN members to "combat such denial and to educate their populations about the well established historical facts of the Holocaust, in which one third of the Jewish people were murdered along with countless members of other minorities."

In October, Annan and many other leaders criticized Ahmadinejad for saying Israel should be wiped off the map.

Thursday's comments also elicited quick condemnation. German Chancellor Angela Merkel called them "totally unacceptable."

At a press conference with French President Jacques Chirac near Berlin, Merkel also said: "With our historical responsibility in mind, I can only say that we reject [the comments] in the harshest possible terms. We will do everything to make it clear that Israel's right to existence is in no way endangered. I am firmly convinced that a majority in the international community has a similar opinion on this issue." Chirac said he agreed completely.

British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said he condemns the comments "unreservedly," adding, "They have no place in civilized political debate."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said, "It just further underscores our concerns about the regime in Iran and it's all the more reason why it's so important that the regime not have the ability to develop nuclear weapons."

Russia also condemned Ahmadinejad's comments on Friday.

"It is difficult to comment on such unacceptable remarks," the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement. "There are well-known historical facts concerning World War Two, including the Holocaust. These facts cannot be revised and this should be understood by everyone."

PS: However, it is becoming apparent that Zionist radicals use of excuses for further bombing, exploitation and stealing lands is gradually becoming more difficult... as their main support is now eroding for several reasons... a trend that is sweeping now the world... until China emerges as the dominant power in a decade or two. Otherwise, they would never talk of diplomacy as a method... but resort to what they have done in the past 4 decades- bomb, kill, and annex!

[jayreynolds]

Last update - 15:40 10/12/2005
[b]Iran's Supreme Ruler Backs President


To me, calling someone "Supreme Ruler" just doesn't seem right.
Oh, well, guess I'll get a 'fatwa'.

[Advil]

Tehran gives world leaders a history lesson they’d rather forget
Greg Felton

December 17, 2005
http://www.gregfelton.com/



Over the past two months or so, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the newly elected president of Iran, has made his mark on the world stage… to overwhelmingly bad reviews.


Observations like: Israel should be wiped off the map; Israel should be moved to Europe; Europe supported the founding of Israel because of Holocaust guilt; and the Holocaust is a myth have been vehemently condemned.


Here’s Prime Minister Paul Martin’s diatribe:


“These statements are irresponsible, contrary to Canadian values…To cast doubt on the Holocaust and to suggest that Israel be ‘moved’ to Europe, the United States or Canada is completely unacceptable to the Canadian people.”


This is the same Paul Martin, by the way, who last month asserted: “Israel’s values are Canada’s values.” Good Gawd! What better proof is there that Canada’s Foreign Ministry is under Zionist occupation?


Anyway, while world leaders like Martin sputter away and pro-Israel typists like the Globe and Mail’s Mark MacKinnon do their best to stigmatize Ahmadinejad as a threat to world peace, let’s subject his “outrageous” statements to historical scrutiny:


1. “Israel should be wiped off the map”


First of all, we should ask: “Should Israel be on the map in the first place?” Loyal readers of this space know the answer, but for the rest of you, here’s the Reader’s Digest version.


First, the Nov. 29, 1947, “Partition Plan (UN General Assembly Resolution 181) was never ratified by the Security Council, and thus any division of Palestine into Jewish and non-Jewish areas was never legal. Moreover, a UNGA Resolution is only binding if all parties to it agree to be bound by its terms, which in this case did not happen.


Second, the General Assembly had no right under the UN Charter to take land from one people (Arabs) and give it to another people (European Jews).


Three, David ben Gurion declared Israeli statehood on May 15, 1948, even though the term of UNGA Res. 181 had not expired. Therefore, the creation of Israel was a land grab contrary to the UN and international law.


Four, Israel was admitted to the UN on May 11, 1949, only after it agreed to sign UNGA Res. 273, by which it recognized the right of all Palestinians to return to their homes and receive compensation.


Israel is a criminal entity that has never had a moral, legal or political right to exist. Score one for Ahmadinejad.


2. “Israel should be moved to Europe.”


The point is that since Europeans should not be made to suffer. He’s got a point. In fact, ben Gurion said much the same thing to Nahum Goldmann, future head of the World Jewish Congress:


“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”


Why indeed? Since the EuroJews who created “Israel” were mostly Slavs, it does seem logical to move the “Jewish State” to Ukraine, Poland, Russia or Byelorus. After all, Slavs are not a Middle Eastern people.


That’s two for the plucky president!


3. In Mecca, Ahmadinejad implied that European countries had backed the founding of Israel in the Middle East in 1948 out of guilt over the Nazi genocide. (AP reporting)


In fact, Western European governments were largely against the creation of Israel, but pro-Israel U.S. senators threatened to withhold Marshall Plan reconstruction aid if they didn’t support UNGA Res. 181. Guilt was doubtless rife throughout Europe, but blackmail was a bigger reason.


The Holocaust had nothing whatever to do with “Israel” which had been in the works since the 1870s. As professor Ilan Pappé of Haifa University wrote in 1997:


“Generally speaking, the Zionists succeeded in persuading large segments of world public opinion to link the Zionist cause with the Holocaust. Against such a claim, even able Palestinian diplomats—and there were not many in those days—could hardly win the diplomatic game.”


Since guilt did play some role, I’ll give Ahmadinejad credit for this one.


4. “If someone were to deny the existence of God ... and deny the existence of prophets and religion, they would not bother him. However, if someone were to deny the myth of the Jews’ massacre, all the Zionist mouthpieces and the governments subservient to the Zionists tear their larynxes and scream against the person as much as they can.”


The Holocaust has been so polluted by propaganda that it’s virtually impossible to separate fact from disinformation, so I cannot say for certain if Ahmadinejad is right. For its part the International Committee of the Red Cross published a three-volume report in 1948 in which it found no evidence of systematic genocide. On the other hand, estimates of Jewish deaths range from 470,000 to 9 million!


I believe Ahmadinejad is wrong to deny the Holocaust outright, but he is right to call into question the dogmatic acceptance of Zionist verities, such as Auschwitz’s Crematorium I, which exists today. As reporter Eric Conan wrote in a lengthy 1995 exposé for France’s L’Express:


“In 1948, when the Museum was created, Crematorium I was reconstructed in a supposed original state. Everything about it is false (Tout y est faux): the dimensions of the gas chamber, the locations of the doors, the openings for pouring in Zyklon B, the ovens (rebuilt according to the recollections of some survivors), the height of the chimney.”


Also, the new plaque at the entrance to Auschwitz reflects the Polish government’s revision of the number of dead from 4 million to 1.5 million. The 4 million figure came from Capt. Rudolph Höss, the camp commandant, whose testimony has been discredited.


Despite the reduction of 2.5 million, the Zionist figure of 6 million is still maintained. Clearly, this number is pure myth, and Ahmadinejad is at least partly right.


Final score: 3.5 out of 4. Excellent!


It seems honesty and courage are Iranian values. Too bad they aren’t Canadian, eh Mr. Martin?

[mickey]

Pray tell us the difference between the Israeli and Iranian leaders... other than what the record clearly shows who is openly more violent, brutal, and daring... supported by successive American administrations.

Any label hurling by you... in lieu of responding like a rational thinking person... only would confirm your bias. There's really no question. The new leader of Iran is a religious psychopath.Dec 19 1:59 PM US/Eastern

- Hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has banned Western music from Iran's radio and TV stations, reviving one of the harshest cultural decrees from the early days of 1979 Islamic Revolution. Songs such as George Michael's "Careless Whisper," Eric Clapton's "Rush" and the Eagles' "Hotel California" have regularly accompanied Iranian broadcasts, as do tunes by saxophonist Kenny G.

[jayreynolds]

Associate with Jesus, he was Jewish and a pretty good fellow.
Even Islam says he was profit.
Most of the US kinda likes what he had to say.
And even Messianic Jews.
How more politically correct can a person be, then Jesus.
Get used to it. Jesus is making a comeback.
And then there is this piece on the orgin of the word "Jew," the terms that were in vogue in Jesus' time, and some impostors that seem to have jumped on the ruling family tree's bandwagon.
JESUS WAS NOT A Jew.
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=380637&postcount=34
profit?

[Bertrand]

profit?

Any wonder about the rampant materialism?

[dannavy85]

The Holocaust: Let's Hear Both Sides

How about let's not and you get fucked.

[dannavy85]

Whiteman seems to have a little trouble with links. He seems to think that spamming the crap out of the board is going to move his Jew hate agenda down the field.

He has strong support from the liberals in America though.