Chemmies, blind leading the blind

[jayreynolds]

In an essay entitled "Strategies Against Climate Change":
"In relation to 'geoengineering', the 'Climate Change 2001' report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg3/176.htm
confirms that it 'includes the possibility of engineering the earth's climate system by large-scale manipulation of the global energy balance. It has been estimated, for example, that the mean effect on the earth surface energy balance from a doubling of CO2 could be offset by an increase of 1.5% to 2% in the earth's albedo, i.e. by reflecting additional incoming solar radiation back into space…. Teller et al. (1997) found that ~107 t of dielectric aerosols of ~100 nm diameter would be sufficient to increase the albedo of the earth by ~1%. They showed that the required mass of a system based on alumina particles would be similar to that of a system based on sulphuric acid aerosol…(They) demonstrate that use of metallic or optically resonant scatterers can, in principle, greatly reduce the required total mass of scattering particles required."
http://www.spectrezine.org/environment/Hall2.htm



Hey, Wayne, why do you suppose the figure you have been using, "~107 tons" is that exact amount?
Why "107", why not 100, why not 110?

Why ~107 tons?

The symbol ~ denotes an estimate, why the seemingly accurate 7 more tons?

Think about it.

[halva]

Why not write to the IPCC and ask them why they cite that figure?

Who are you trying to fight, chemmies or the IPCC??

Do you really think you or anyone can fight both simultaneously?

[jayreynolds]

Why not write to the IPCC and ask them why they cite that figure?

Who are you trying to fight, chemmies or the IPCC??

Do you really think you or anyone can fight both simultaneously?
1. I know why they cite that figure.
2. I don't really care about fighting the IPCC, many others are better suited for that work, but I will continue to fight those who promote the "chemtrails" hoax.
3. Sure, anyone can fight any battles they wish. I choose "chemmies" because few others have, and I know more about your people's hoax than any of you do. That is why I run rings around you year after year!

NOW, ANSWER THE ORIGINAL QUESTION, WAYNE!

[halva]

Why should I?

Just fuck off.

You choose to do what you do for no good reason at all. BC should be using her string-pulling abilities to bring back her friend WMM to take over some of this work. You are just insane. And you have no clue about the strategy I am pursuing to resist the pathology of which you are just one small and particularly ridiculous symptom.

[jayreynolds]

Why should I?

Just fuck off.

You choose to do what you do for no good reason at all. BC should be using her string-pulling abilities to bring back her friend WMM to take over some of this work. You are just insane. And you have no clue about the strategy I am pursuing to resist the pathology of which you are just one small and particularly ridiculous symptom.

Wayne, if you are interested in the truth you would want to know about how you have been promoting false information. If you simply say fuck off when informed of errors, what does that say about your dedication to discovering truth? Are you so set in your belief that no amount of fact can change them?

If so, your so-called "strategy I am pursuing" is based on a knowingly false premise, and doomed to failure. Do you really want to fail?

Look at it this way, Wayne. If you continue, in your obstinance, to promote false material, you will fail.

If you work with truthful factual information, you might be proved wrong in your assumptions, but in the final analysis, you will have promoted truth, as well as take up a position from which you CANNOT HELP BUT WIN.

You chemmies often mistakenly see me as arrogant. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Don't mistake confidence for arrogance.

NOW ANSWER THE QUESTION

[halva]

I'm not responding to you, and this is not a thread on any legitimate subject. Close it down.

[jayreynolds]

I'm not responding to you, and this is not a thread on any legitimate subject. Close it down.

Oh, really?
So your response is not really a response?
Rather circular logic, Wayne.
You call that plausible deniabiity?

The subject is your claim now, Wayne, and I have no intention to oblige your childish demand
to, "Close it down."

Wayne, doesn't it raise any question at all in your mind that when an estimation symbol such as ~ is used when citing a number, the number itself isn't rounded off?

Come on, work with me, Wayne.

This subject is certainly legitimate, indeed you were the one who brought it to our attention by writing the article, and posting the link here.

Your protestations are beginning to make it look more and more like you know where this is headed.......................

Is it true that you have long been aware that you are deliberately posting false information all over the 'net?

Because if so, you are guilty of deliberately misinforming your fellow chemmies.............

Now THAT might be a reason for you to claim that this isn't a "legitimate subject".

Is that why you so afraid of being exposed, Wayne?

[halva]

Whoever trained you in psychological warfare should have told you that to have an effect after a while you have to vary your approach because continual stimulation of the same neural zones engenders fatigue and lack of response.

You have run out of ideas. You are not getting the information you need to make things really difficult for me. Even if you were getting it, you couldn't use it, because I happen not to be playing by your rules.

Between us you and I must be boring everybody else here absolutely shitless because there is such monotony to it. But you are the one who keeps it going. You must take responsibility for it.

[halva]

This subject is certainly legitimate, indeed you were the one who brought it to our attention by writing the article, and posting the link here.


Here it is posted in Greek.
http://www.stoppoverty.gr/news/news.asp?SNID=13

Contact them and tell them I am selling them a hoax.

[halva]

While you're at it, tell them that the IPCC is misleading them.

[jayreynolds]

I'm not responding to you
Oh, really?

Wayne, the more you try to deny it, the clearer it gets.

What has become clear is that you know that there is a big problem, isn't it, Wayne?

How long now have you known that the ~107 tons figure you have been repeating is way too small?

Isn't it true that you chose to use a figure you know is far too small, simply because you know the real figure makes your claim so preposterous, so ridiculous, that no scientist worth his salt could keep from laughing?

When did you first become aware of that figure, Wayne, who pointed it out to you?

Don't even try to claim you discovered it for yourself, because I know all about it....

[jayreynolds]

Wayne, how many flights and how many aircraft would be necessary to distribute ~107 tons of nanoparticles into the stratosphere?

Would it take the 5-6 years you've been saying, Wayne?

How high is the stratosphere?

How high do airplanes fly?

What is the altitude of planes you observe leaving so-called "chemtrails"?

Lots of questions for you, Wayne.

You are the one who wrote the paper, YOU need to answer questions about it.

Or did someone else write it for you?

Is it true you have a 'ghost' writer, Wayne?

If you wrote it, you did do some semblance of research, at least enough to understand what you wrote, right?

Or do you just parrot whatever someone else tells you is true???????????

Do you have a mind of your own, Wayne?

Wayne??????

[halva]

Originally Posted by jayreynolds
This subject is certainly legitimate, indeed you were the one who brought it to our attention by writing the article, and posting the link here.


Here is the same article posted in Greek.
http://www.stoppoverty.gr/news/news.asp?SNID=13

Contact them and tell them I am selling them a hoax.

Here is the link to the IPCC text:
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg3/176.htm

Look in the third last paragraph. Note that it says Teller el al's claims are "in agreement with the 1992 NAS study".

Tell the Campaign against Poverty that the IPCC is hoaxing them too.

Let us know how you get on.

[foot_soldier]

Reynolds, you are one miserable little pr_ck.

For at least the last seven years you've been obsessed with shoving your right-wing fundamentalist Talking Points down people's throats.

But you're not satisfied to leave it at that.

No - you have to f_ck with people's minds, relentlessly and very deliberately distorting, if not completely misrepresenting, their input and then having the goddamned gall to either mock them or excoriate them or both for their failure to "make themselves clear."

You are not satisfied to merely "set people straight."

You have to completely destroy them.

And, further, you seem to feel it is your God-given right to manipulate the findings of the science community even in cases where studies have been reproduced and corroborated several times over by professionals whose lives are dedicated to producing the best work possible on some of the most pressing issues we may ever face.

You are a very destructive person.

You are, in fact, a sociopath.

No mature, thoughtful adult human being does the kinds of things you are doing. And not even a garden-variety @sshole enjoys them as much as you appear to.

Freak.

[halva]

I don't get the point you are making, fs.

Raynolds has destroyed nobody but himself.

I personally don't give a damn about the credibility of IPCC reports. It's not my problem. The point in citing what they say is to show that they take these geoengineering ideas seriously. Therefore they have to show that they are NOT implementing these ideas. We don't have to show that they ARE.

The IPCC are a big powerful organization and they don't need my help in defending their scientific credentials. They certainly are THE authority for anybody I have to take into consideration.

Climate change debunkers like Reynolds are just irrelevant in the part of the political spectrum I occupy. They would not get a hearing. They DO not get a hearing.

[foot_soldier]

halva wrote:
.....I personally don't give a damn about the credibility of IPCC reports. It's not my problem. The point in citing what they say is to show that they take these geoengineering ideas seriously.....
Exactly.

By the way, Reynolds wouldn't be given much attention in my sphere, either.

In fact I don't even consider his game to be relevant or even particularly effective at this late date.

I just get tired of seeing him puking on other people and occasionally I speak up about it.

[siegmund]

Here is the link to the IPCC text:
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg3/176.htm A person who reads over

~107t
~105t
~106t

is struck blind, sorry.

Even when IPCC and Teller allegedly tell, one has to verify.

The same with alumina & aluminium. Two totally different chemicals.

siegmund

[halva]

Take it up with the IPCC and report back.

[jayreynolds]

A person who reads over

~107t
~105t
~106t

is struck blind, sorry.

Even when IPCC and Teller allegedly tell, one has to verify.

The same with alumina & aluminium. Two totally different chemicals.

siegmund
I see that Siegmund, an independent observer, has figured it out.
It didn't take him long at all, likely he has known for some time.
Wayne, this is what a real trained scientist does.
I repectfully request that Siegmund save the "coup de grace" for me.

[jayreynolds]

No - you have to f_ck with people's minds, relentlessly and very deliberately distorting, if not completely misrepresenting, their input and then having the goddamned gall to either mock them or excoriate them or both for their failure to "make themselves clear."

You are not satisfied to merely "set people straight."

You have to completely destroy them.
Ah, well they say that criminals "always return to the scene of the crime" and who should appear?

And it is clear enough that 'footsoldier' is aware that what is being presented is enough to "destroy" Wayne, and in fact, 'footsoldier too', for you both cooked up this scheme together, didn't you?.

'footsoldier' knows, because 'footsoldier' has always been right in the middle of this deception, haven't you, dearie?

And, further, you seem to feel it is your God-given right to manipulate the findings of the science community even in cases where studies have been reproduced and corroborated several times over by professionals whose lives are dedicated to producing the best work possible on some of the most pressing issues we may ever face.

You are a very destructive person.

You are, in fact, a sociopath.

No mature, thoughtful adult human being does the kinds of things you are doing. And not even a garden-variety @sshole enjoys them as much as you appear to.

Freak.
Well, so you face your destruction arrogantly?
Watch as your world comes tumbling down around you.


The irony of your acusation that I have "manipulated the findings of science" will become all too clear presently, for the real manipulators are coming into view.

[jayreynolds]

Even when IPCC and Teller allegedly tell, one has to verify.
siegmund

Dear readers,
I present for evidence linkage to the means whereby a real scientist would verfiy whether or not what Wayne and 'footsoldier' have been telling them is true or false:
http://www.rense.com/general18/scatteringEdTellerwithnotes.pdf
It is, in fact, a pdf file copy of the original Teller paper, as originally written, which Wayne and 'footsoldier' have cited over and over, falsely saying that it describes:
Teller et al. (1997) found that ~107 t of dielectric aerosols of ~100 nm diameter would be sufficient to increase the albedo of the earth by ~1%."

I challenge Wayne Hall, 'footsoldier', and the readers to find where the Teller paper says anything whatsoever about "~107 tons of dielectric aerosols of ~100nm diameter".

Read and weep for Wayne and 'footsoldier', for their feared destruction is at hand...........

[halva]

Just go and jump in the lake Raynolds. I don't need to cite anything more authoritative than an IPCC report since all that I am interested in discovering is what the IPCC says and what therefore is likely to be determining or at least influencing policy.

Go and try and sell your red herrings somewhere where there is a market for them.

[halva]

Take your grievance to the IPCC if you think they are misquoting Teller. You and Siegmund can visit them together. He might buy you a beer.

[jayreynolds]

Just go and jump in the lake Raynolds. I don't need to cite anything more authoritative than an IPCC report since all that I am interested in discovering is what the IPCC says and what therefore is likely to be determining or at least influencing policy.

Go and try and sell your red herrings somewhere where there is a market for them.

Wayne Hall, you are not speaking to fools, and you are certainly not speaking the truth.
You know.
You have always known, as has 'footsoldier', that what you have taken advantage of, was false..

Anyone who examines the original document presented by Teller can plainly see that no such thing as ~107 tons was mentioned, so why try to drag a "red herring" across the trail?

Now that everybody else knows, and you and your cohort in crime, 'footsoldier', have been exposed, will you persist in trying to distract attention away from the deception that you have perpetrated?

Will you insist, even given the indisputable fact that I started complaining about it months ago, that what you claim was BOGUS?

No, Wayne Hall, you know, and you and 'footsoldier have known, long before I began exposing you.

You two have known for years what you were doing.

And I have evidence to prove it!

This is your last chance, Wayne hall and 'footsoldier'. Your last chance to admit what you have done. The whole story is emerging out of the darkness and into the light of truth. I have you by the 'short hairs' and there is no escape.

Now, confess what you two have done, and do it now.

[jayreynolds]

'Footsoldier', I see you lurking. If Wayne hasn't the guts to admit your complicity, will you?

[halva]

Raynolds, I have known you for long enough to be perfectly well aware your strategic priority is to keep talking, whether or not you have anything to say. You prefer trying on ANYTHING AT ALL to being silent.

As I indicated, you are suffering from a severe idea deficit at this point in time, but being the driven monomaniac that you are, you are willing to play it by ear for a while, merely maintaining your contentlessly belligerent stance in the hope that something will turn up that you can use to regain the initiative.

Keep hoping. Perhaps BC or IS will post something shortly you can latch onto.

[halva]

Will you insist, even given the indisputable fact that I started complaining about it months ago, that what you claim was BOGUS?


What I claim is that I have correctedly conveyed the content of a section of an IPPC report. Is my claim bogus?

[whitemajikman]

Wayne, how many flights and how many aircraft would be necessary to distribute ~107 tons of nanoparticles into the stratosphere?

Jay Lets Make it 110 tons........It would take 10 aircraft and 22 missions to distribute all of those nanoparticles at half a ton per mission this could be done over a span of 1 month to 3 months if it were important that these nanoparticles needed to be distributed with haste BUT if in fact they did not need to be distributed in haste Halva's observation of 5-6 years is probably the way to go, That Way You are not distributing half a ton at a time which would raise flags with the Public at Large and could use the " increased contrail formation because of increased aviation flights" Mantra as a Tool for Plausible Deniability as a cover........



Would it take the 5-6 years you've been saying, Wayne?

see above

How high is the stratosphere?

It does Not need to occur in the Stratosphere , that is your common misconception.

How high do airplanes fly?

how high do Jets Fly? LMAO

What is the altitude of planes you observe leaving so-called "chemtrails"?

what is the altitude you claim they are leaving it at?


Lots of questions for you, Wayne.

You are the one who wrote the paper, YOU need to answer questions about it.

Or did someone else write it for you?

Is it true you have a 'ghost' writer, Wayne?

If you wrote it, you did do some semblance of research, at least enough to understand what you wrote, right?

Or do you just parrot whatever someone else tells you is true???????????

Do you have a mind of your own, Wayne?

Wayne??????


Jay when was the last time you got Published ?

and Provide a link.........

WMM

[foot_soldier]

Take it up with the IPCC and report back.
.

[jayreynolds]

What I claim is that I have correctedly conveyed the content of a section of an IPPC report. Is my claim bogus?
Take it up with the IPCC and report back.

Wayne, you haven't even begun to answer the relevant questions people need to know.

I posted a link to the original Teller paper already, but here it is again:
http://www.rense.com/general18/scatteringEdTellerwithnotes.pdf

As anyone who reads the Teller paper can tell, the figure Wayne claims of ~107 tons isn't a part of the document whatsoever.

Now, what does the Teller paper actually say regarding the amount of aerosols that would be necessary to increase albedo by 1%?

What does the paper REALLY SAY, Wayne?

It does give a figure, and you need to tell us what it really does say.


It's far too late for this sort of 'plausible denial' game you are trying to play, old bean. Such games might fool a few people, but the balance of the evidence which will be revealed in due course will show your scam can't be covered up with petty denials.

Your fate is already sealed, Wayne, your people's whole scam is inexorably, methodically being exposed, and there is nothing you can do about it.

[halva]

Why should one regard the dead Teller as of more significance than the live IPCC?

[siegmund]

Why should one regard the dead Teller as of more significance than the live IPCC? Because they made tiny but crucial mistakes.

I explained in detail the difference between α-Al2O3, γ-Al2O3 and Al(OH)3
especially not to mix up alumina and aluminum but gathered mockery only.
Even chemtrail experts permanently have been and still are at war with this element.

Beside this chemical issue, I hope Jay will disclose the tiny

107
105
106

errors soon.

siegmund

[jayreynolds]

Wayne, you haven't even begun to answer the relevant questions people need to know.

I posted a link to the original Teller paper already, but here it is again:
http://www.rense.com/general18/scatteringEdTellerwithnotes.pdf

As anyone who reads the Teller paper can tell, the figure Wayne claims of ~107 tons isn't a part of the document whatsoever.

Now, what does the Teller paper actually say regarding the amount of aerosols that would be necessary to increase albedo by 1%?

What does the paper REALLY SAY, Wayne?

It does give a figure, and you need to tell us what it really does say.

Well, so it looks like Wayne is going to continue the "pretend ignorance" game.
Buddy, you can play, but it just won't stay.
Plausible denial might seem a safe refuge, but I have more info on this matter.
Then there is the fact that you were told months ago............why not just change the misinformation, Wayne?
So, 'footsoldier', now is YOUR chance to tell us WHAT THE TELLER PAPER REALLY SAYS.

SO, EXACTLY HOW MANY TONS OF AEROSOLS DOES TELLER SAY WOULD BE NECESSARY TO INCREASE ALBEDO BY !%, 'footsoldier'????

It is for certain now that Siegmund has already figured it out, and is giving you people hints that even a child could see. But Siegmund is himself mistaken, there was no error involved, what was done was intentional!

Remember, pleading ignorance has it's consequences, perhaps even more than an admission of this scheme you people worked out years ago. Do you really want to be known as CONFIRMED IGNORANT CHEMMIES????

I'm heading out to a Christmas concert, you have two hours to respond.

[whitemajikman]

Well, so it looks like Wayne is going to continue the "pretend ignorance" game.
Buddy, you can play, but it just won't stay.
Plausible denial might seem a safe refuge, but I have more info on this matter.
Then there is the fact that you were told months ago............why not just change the misinformation, Wayne?
So, 'footsoldier', now is YOUR chance to tell us WHAT THE TELLER PAPER REALLY SAYS.

SO, EXACTLY HOW MANY TONS OF AEROSOLS DOES TELLER SAY WOULD BE NECESSARY TO INCREASE ALBEDO BY !%, 'footsoldier'????

It is for certain now that Siegmund has already figured it out, and is giving you people hints that even a child could see. But Siegmund is himself mistaken, there was no error involved, what was done was intentional!

Remember, pleading ignorance has it's consequences, perhaps even more than an admission of this scheme you people worked out years ago. Do you really want to be known as CONFIRMED IGNORANT CHEMMIES????

I'm heading out to a Christmas concert, you have two hours to respond.


1 million tons

WMM

[whitemajikman]

Now please Explain your Statement.

It is for certain now that Siegmund has already figured it out, and is giving you people hints that even a child could see. But Siegmund is himself mistaken, there was no error involved, what was done was intentional!

WMM

[whitemajikman]

Jay answer this ........

Why wouldn't those in oversight consider the utilization of already-existing emissions from any of a number of source points if they're (already) the right kind of emissions (i.e. already quantified as net-cooling) for mitigation of greenhouse gas net warming?

WMM

[halva]

Raynolds (and Siegface?) seem very likely to end up getting lost themselves in this fog they are generating.

In any case no one else is likely to be taken in by their insinuation that 'chemmies' are somehow to be blamed for assertions made in official publications of the IPCC.

And no-one is likely to want to discuss such questions with deluded manic individuals continually seeking to 'play to the aisles' and driven by conscious calculations or unconscious psychoses that one can only guess at.

[siegmund]

1 million tons

WMM Target still missed by one thousand percent.

[jayreynolds]

Target still missed by one thousand percent.
Yes, indeed, Siegmund. At least whitey had the guts to venture a wild guess.

The correct answer, Ladies and Gentlemen, taken directly from the pen of Edward Teller:

[at 29]"Each of these scattering particles may be estimated to have an average mass of ~10^-15 gm(i.e., be ~0.12 mm in diameter and of unit density), so that the required quantity of them would imply a total mass of the scattering system of ~10^13 gms,
or 10,000,000 tons."
http://www.rense.com/general18/scatteringEdTellerwithnotes.pdf

NOT ~107 tons, not 1 million tons, but
10,000,000 tons, TEN MILLION TONS!!!!!


Note: This information is not hidden in some arcane scientist archive. It comes directly from a major "chemtrail" hoax promotion website, Rense.com. It has always been widely available and easily found.

Not only was the accurate information available at a major "chemtrail" hoax site, the IPCC also publishes their documents in .pdf format directly from the original hard-copy. This link from chapter 4 of the Third Assessment Report(TAR) contains the same text as that quoted incorrectly by Wayne Hall:
"In agreement with the 1992 NAS study, Teller et al.
(1997) found that ~107 t of dielectric aerosols of ~100 nm
diameter would be sufficient to increase the albedo of the earth
by ~1%."(IPCC TAR pg.334)
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg3/pdf/4.pdf

[jayreynolds]

For the numerically challenged or hopelessly lost, what has occurred here is that the html online version of the relevant text quoted by Wayne Hall contains a gross error in text formatting and poor editing for accuracy, probably produced by inferior software when the hard-copy report was put on the website. Scientific documents commonly use scientific notation for very large(or very small numbers to reduce confusion by having so many zeros to look at.

Thus, a sum of ten million tons is normally rendered by writing the number 10 with a superscript 7, denoting ten to the power of 7, which calculates to 10 times itself seven times, or ten million.

I am, in fact, unable to render this text format on this version of the Vbulletin message board, although more recent versions allow use of the superscript tagtext. Recent versions of html formatting programs and word processing programs ie. MSWord have provision for rendering superscript text. Prior to word processing, a superscript was commonly rendered by use of the caret ^ key preceding the superscript numeral, ie. 10^7 denoting ten to the seventh power, or ten million.

In this case, the textual error as seen in the html version at the IPCC site does appear as if it says ~107 tons, a figure which, to a competent scientist, is laughable on it's face. Moreover, even to a non-technical person, the inclusion of the tilda~ symbol, denoting an approximation, preceding the 107 figure should have been a dead-giveaway to even a casual reader, for why approximate a figure yet show such accuracy?

At first, it might appear that Wayne Hall simply acted as a copy/paste 'scientist', and repeated the error in the IPPCC's online version, but real scientists and real activists would have made sure, to quote President Ronald Reagan, 'Trust, but verify."

It makes no sense at all for a person allegedly "searching for the Truth" to merely parrot what one document claims. Real science means that the author goes back to the original source document and become intimately familiar with the true facts of the matter. To do anything less is more than just being sloppy, it is gross negligence and disregard for accuracy.

In a persuasive document such error means not only publicizing misleading information, it means publishing error ridden material easily seen as a juvenile, superficially false, and easily refuted.

In short, such work leads the reader to consider the author a FOOL!

That said, was the error inadvertent, the work of a fool(or fools), or was it deliberate, designed to make a ridiculous proposition more palatable for superficial readers, yet allowing 'plausible deniability' should the hoaxers be found out?
Stay tuned for the rest of the story.......................

[jayreynolds]

That said, the situation for Wayne and 'footsoldier' is FAR WORSE than simply an error of a few thousand percent.

The text that Wayne originally quoted from the IPCC says:
"In agreement with the 1992 NAS study, Teller et al. (1997) found that ~10^7 t of dielectric aerosols of ~100 nm diameter would be sufficient to increase the albedo of the earth by ~1%."

In the preceding paragraph, not quoted by Wayne Hall(deliberately?), the document says:
"It has been estimated, for example, that the mean effect on the earth surface energy balance from a doubling of CO2 could be offset by an increase of 1.5% to 2% in the earth’s albedo, i.e. by reflecting additional incoming solar radiation back into
space."

Thus the IPCC is saying that the ten million tons of aerosol needed for a geoengineering project would be 1.5 to 2 times that amount, or
15 TO 20 MILLION TONS!

Is it now becoming clear why Wayne Hall has avoided answering pertinent questions, and why 'footsoldier' is moaning about her fears that I will "destroy" them both?
Read on.......................

[jayreynolds]

If the figure of 20 million tons seems unfamiliar to those only recently acquainted with the "chemtrails" hoax, I assure such is not the case for chemmies like Wayne Hall and 'footsoldier'.

Indeed, over a year ago, right here at ariannaonline, I told him what the world's foremost contrail scientist, Dr. Patrick Minnis, said about it!

"The best way to get a scattering effect that wil do anything is to load up the stratosphere with submicron sized particles. To accomplish anything noticeable in terms of a climate effect you would have to loft material equivalent in weight/particle number to that injected by a volcano of the magnitude of El Chichon or greater, more like Pinatubo in size.

That would mean the planes would have to deposit 20,000,000 tons of material in the stratosphere every 2 or 3 years.

To keep it up there, it would be best to place it in the Tropics meaning they would have to reach altitudes of 55,000 to 60,000 ft. To match the Pinatubo output, this means for the miltary's C-141B Starlifter with a capacity of 34.3 tons, it would require only 20,000,000 / 34.3 = 582,030 flights in the course of say, 3 years or roughly 195,000 flights each year or 531/day just to go up and spray a bunch of junk into the stratosphere.

How much fuel do you think that would require? If the military had 747s, then the number would drop by a third. But here is the problem. The volcanos put the material at altitudes above 60,000 ft. There are very few planes that can reach those altitudes and cargo planes are not included in that bunch. Most of them fly below 45,000 ft.They could only reach the stratosphere in polar regions and over the US during the winter. "
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=77539&postcount=2303

So, can Wayne and 'footsoldier' really claim gross ignorance or incompetence as a 'plausible denial'?

Considering the above evidence, it is beginning to appear that might not be the case.
But wait, there is more to come............

[halva]

What a shame there are no facilities for blowing raspberries and having them registered on this forum.

The only point that relevant to the case that we are making is that the IPCC is interested in discussing geoengineering schemes of the type recommended by Teller and that therefore it cannot avoid the implementation issue.

There is no reason for including Raynolds or other demagogues or 'climate change sceptics' in discussion with scientists on why such proposals are or are not being implemented.

[jayreynolds]

What a shame there are no facilities for blowing raspberries and having them registered on this forum.

The only point that relevant to the case that we are making is that the IPCC is interested in discussing geoengineering schemes of the type recommended by Teller and that therefore it cannot avoid the implementation issue.

There is no reason for including Raynolds or other demagogues or 'climate change sceptics' in discussion with scientists on why such proposals are or are not being implemented.
Well, well, well, if it isn't the little 'copy/paste scientist' coming forth to throw out another 'red herring', yet conspicuously silent on the issue at hand as his farcical attempt at deception is exposed.

Tell us, Wayne, how do you really expect to have "discussions with scientists on why such proposals are or are not being implemented" if you try a lame attempt to deceive those scientists?

As shown in the preceding pages of this thread, Siegmund immediately caught on, as would anyone familiar with the subject!

Yes, it is no wonder you want to portray the information I am now disclosing as not relevant.

You have been on the run, you are now on the ropes, and will soon be out for the count!

The fact is that the only thing that is relevant in the world of science are facts, not fantasies, not pie-in-the-sky, and most certainly not your people, at best incompetent, at worst, deceptive.

Read on, Wayne, you are "on the eve of destruction"......................

[jayreynolds]

At this point the reader has been presented with facts that show Wayne Hall and 'footsoldier' were made fully aware that 20 million tons, not an incredibly small ~107 tons, were considered necessary to accomplish a geoengineering project as envisioned by Teller.

There is no getting around the facts, they were notified of this over one year ago on this very forum.

The reader is now faced with a decison making process, therefore, as to whether the glaring error published on the IPCC site, and copied by Wayne Hall, was done inadvertently as he claims, the mere result of incompetence, or whether it was deliberate.

More sympathetic readers, and especially confirmed chemmies, known for their ability to hold their noses as other cult members make outrageous claims, might tend to simply take Hall's word.

But what if more evidence existed? What if evidence were presented that tells the story more fully were available, is there a point at which one can only conclude that a deliberate deception has been perpetrated?

Read on.

A question one might ask is, "when did Wayne Hall and 'footsoldier' first begin discussing this geoengineering subject?"

The answer is found at the chemtrailcentral messageboard in postings from two years ago in an exchange between Wayne Hall, and a person well known to Hall and myself:

"Wayne Hall:
"The aerosol spraying scenario was inspired by internationally known scientists from as early as the 1970s. Obviously the approach that has prevailed is that of the ‘father of the H-bomb’ Edward Teller, who proposed spraying the entire planet with chemicals to reflect the dangerous ultra-violet rays of the sun but also allowing the heat to escape,’ says Wayne Hall."

Person#2:
"Adaptation and Mitigation
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/dees/ees/climate/lectures/adaptation.mitigation.html
Excerpt: Geoengineering?
-- Increase planet’s albedo by 1.5-2.0%.
-- Atmospheric aerosols, reflective balloons, space mirrors.
-- 107 tons of ~100nm particles would > albedo by 1%.
-- 105 tons of mesh microstructures > albedo by 1% (made by Dupont!).
-- 106 tons of ~4mm micro-balloons in stratosphere (25km).
-- Spatial and temporal effects?
-- Low cost.
* Addresses symptoms rather than causes.
* Fail-safe."
Person#2:
"halvah, I hope you can use some of this material. It's just a drop in the bucket, really, but it's pretty substantive stuff given that the issue under discussion is nothing but a Twisted Commie Hoax, yeah? Keep us posted re: Algina."
Wayne Hall:
"Person#2, thanks for the above info."
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001865.html


Ah, so the record shows that Hall and this other person were discussing the subject two years ago, and the exact 107 tons figure appears to have been introduced in order to establish what person#2 calls "A TWISTED COMMIE HOAX"!!

However, click on the actual link given,
http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/dees/ees/climate/lectures/adaptation.mitigation.html
and what you will find is that the tonnage given is rendered accurately as 10 to the seventh power- ten million tons, and not 107 tons!

So, we have a second exhibit wherein both Wayne Hall and the other person were aware that at least ten million tons was being cited as the amount necessary to accomplish a 1% increase in albedo, along with 1.5-2.0% albedo change being necessary for a total of 20 million tons!

Could this be just another instance of incompetence? One thing is for certain, these two people can no longer deny that they haven't seen accurate information, as they saw it and linked to it directly on Dr. Stephanie Pfirman's website at Columbia University!

The contention by Wayne Hall and 'footsoldier' that they inadvertently copied an error is ludicrous when comparing values of 107 vs. 20 million tons. There is no way that such a disparity of scale can be explained away as incompetence.

This whole event was a planned exercise designed two years ago as a ploy to bring cohorts on board the "chemtrails" hoax gambit which wants people to believe that geoengineering is feasible.

If those people had been aware, as Hall and 'footsoldier' have been shown to have been, that 20 million tons, and not a mere 107 tons of aerosols were necessary, that astronomical figure would have given even the most casual reader pause. More discerning readers would have recognized the farce for the pie-in-the-sky that it is.

Dear Readers, gven the proponderance of evidence shown thus far, what else can be concluded?

But wait....................... there is yet more...................!

[Insurrectionchemistry]

There is only one basic thing here.

Jay Reynolds is trying to pass around blind folds for the GOP cover up on Global Warming due to industries influences.

[jayreynolds]

There is only one basic thing here.

Jay Reynolds is trying to pass around blind folds for the GOP cover up on Global Warming due to industries influences.
Another pathetic attempt to help your "ally", Jimbo?
Lot of good you've done.

[foot_soldier]

Knock it off, Reynolds.

Your little pulp fiction project has absolutely nothing to do with my work of the last five years.

I'd take you to court at this point for libel, misrepresentation and harrassment if I had the funding to retain an attorney.

[foot_soldier]

The following piece appeared in the New Jersey Star-Ledger last spring. This is only one of many articles that have for some time now been "introducing" the concept of geo-engineering to the lay public.

Blasting particles and hanging curtains

Sunday, March 06, 2005
http://www.nj.com/business/energy/ledger/index.ssf?/business/ledger/stories/0306geoengineering.html

If all else fails, there are fallback plans to defeat global warming.

Blast some particles called aerosols across the stratosphere.

The idea is to reflect sunlight that might broil us in our own carbon dioxide. Edward Teller, father of the H-bomb, pitched such plans right up to his death at age 95 in 2003.

Teller actually was more concerned about stopping the next Ice Age. To keep us toasty, he proposed a giant screen to refocus sunlight that normally misses Earth.

Conversely, a small tilt of this space shield could cool things just enough to counter global warming, says Teller protégé Lowell Wood, an architect of the controversial "Star Wars" missile shield endorsed by President Ronald Reagan.

Wood says aerosols and space shields could pay for themselves by reducing skin cancer and crop damage. Such "geo-engineering" even might pay an aesthetic bonus, he says: Sulfite particles can yield bluer skies.

If global warming demands fast action, "geo-engineering is one of the few prospects still on the table," he says. Aerosols could be scattered from shells or from customized jetliners.

Nature provides a blueprint.

"When a volcano ejects aerosols into the stratosphere, you see global cooling for a few years until it settles out," says Wood, 63. The "year without a summer," 1816, followed the eruption of Mount Tambora in Indonesia the previous year.

Wood advocates tests to rule out adverse side effects such as damage to earth's protective ozone layer.

"What you're trying to do is throw away 1 to 3 percent of sunlight for its heating effects," he says. "You don't care what portion you throw away. The portion we suggest can be most readily spared is that which does most damage: the ultraviolet that we don't see. It requires an aerosol that's very fine, which is different than what we see in large volcanic eruptions."

Wood, an astrophysicist, is an expert on advanced weapons, including electromagnetic pulses from nuclear blasts. He is a staff member at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and a visiting fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution.

He says a long-term fix for global warming would be a fine metal screen, about 621 miles across.

Wood figures 100 shuttle launches could ferry pieces of the 5,000-ton device into space. The shield would be positioned about a million miles from Earth, in a relatively stationary spot known as a Lagrange point. Nearly transparent and invisible from earth, the screen could scatter a small percentage of the sun's infrared rays -- or redirect sunlight, to forestall the next Ice Age.

"We are going to go back into an Ice Age at some point," Wood says. "The issue is, what will we do about it? Tolerate it or try to do something?"

-- Kevin Coughlin

[jayreynolds]

Knock it off, Reynolds.

Your little pulp fiction project has absolutely nothing to do with my work of the last five years.

I'd take you to court at this point for libel, misrepresentation and harrassment if I had the funding to retain an attorney.
Let the record show that, other than idle threats and a demand that my exposure of this hoax be stopped, 'footsoldier' has made no pertinent comment regarding the veracity of the information provided in this thread. Neither 'footsoldier nor Wayne Hall have shown any remorse whatsoever for mass distribution of patently false information.

I predict that no effort will ever be made to retract or correct the ludicrous claim that the Teller paper says about 107 tons of aerosols, when it is indisputable that the actual amount is 20 million tons.

The following websites deserve to know the truth, will they ever see it from Wayne Hall or 'footsoldier?
http://www.spectrezine.org/environment/Hall2.htm

http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/strategies_hall.html

http://www.rense.com/general49/change.htm

http://tampaindymedia.org/bin/site/templates/default.asp?area_2=imc/open%20newswire/2004/Dec/41643.234375.dat

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/waynehall.html

http://www.skyhighway.com/~chemtrails/in_the_media.html

http://santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/8996/index.php

http://www.attac-hellas.org/strategies.htm

http://chem11.proboards2.com/index.cgi?board=technosphere&action=display&thread=1073367108&page=1

[halva]

Raynolds, I have invited you to try to discredit me at the Greek site that published my recent article on geoengineering.

If you thought you were able to do it, you would try to..

The fact that you do not even try indicates that know you have been defeated and discredited. All that remains for you to do is to blow smoke on this forum, more or less the last place on the internet that does not erase you and anything you post as soon as you make an appearance.

And even that is not out of solidarity with you. Merely out of liberal slackness and indifference.

[jayreynolds]

Raynolds, I have invited you to try to discredit me at the Greek site that published my recent article on geoengineering. If you thought you were able to do it, you would try to.. The fact that you do not even try indicates that know you have been defeated and discredited. All that remains for you to do is to blow smoke on this forum, more or less the last place on the internet that does not erase you and anything you post as soon as you make an appearance.
And even that is not out of solidarity with you. Merely out of liberal slackness and indifference.
Let the record show that Wayne Hall continues to show an arrogant hubris rather than a regret or remorse over what he has done. In the face of the indisputable facts that he has promulgated false information to over eight websites, he is still making a pathetic attempt to transfer his guilt and responsibility for what he has done. Perhaps in his own twisted mind he actually believes that I have been "defeated and discredited", but the charge is void of factual or logical content, as are all his claims about "chemtrails".

His only hope now is that someone else should erase me and anything that I post, but given that I have thoroughly documented the case against him with factual information, that will not come to fruition.

Wayne, your position is best summed up in the following graphic:
http://www.pbase.com/gaocus/image/24019640

Be aware that I intend to present the case laid out in this thread to each of the websites which have published your essay.

[jayreynolds]

Given the evidence laid out in the preceding five pages, readers may be asking themselves whether Wayne Hall and 'footsoldier' were given ample notice that the false information they have attempted to to portray as fact was incorrect.

For, if they were merely making an "honest mistake", and became aware of the facts, would they not have made a genuine effort to correct them? Thus far, even in the face of the facts laid out in this thread, they seem loathe to admit anything, or be willing to make such a correction.

I note that in his last posting, Wayne Hall, in a rather bizarre way, insists that I bear responsibility for informing the websites of his error.

Below, I present evidence that Hall and 'footsoldier' were given ample time and notice that the facts in dispute were false:
Wayne, you had better get your facts straight. Your document, as written, will get you laughed out of the room by any scientist reading it. No, I won't tell you where your mistakes are, but they are gross and include significant omissions.
There, now you can't say I didn't warn you...............
On second thought, I've decided that I am willing to help you, Wayne.
In order to secure my help, you will need to do the following:
1. Within 24 hours, deposit a check for the sum of one million dollars to the account of the
US Salvation Army specifically designated to go to Hurricane Katrina relief efforts.
2. Renounce all support for Jim Phelps and admit that you are aware he is a delusional crackpot. This must be accomplished within 24 hours on this message board in a new thread entitled, "Disassociating myself from Jim Phelps" That should do it.
Originally Posted by halva
"I don't need your advice on correcting it thank you"
As you like, Wayne. I warned you, and offered a solution. My conscience is clear.
Hopefully your collaborators have some common sense and aren't simply out to snigger behind your back, Wayne. I'm telling you straight out that the best thing you could do is to take my offer for help, because as written your paper contains a poison pill of significance which would make any real scientist simply ignore it. You might really think you have a political bombshell in hand, but reality is that it is scientific suicide. Onward through the fog, Wayne. Do as you wish, but don't blame me when your bombshell blows up on you.
I realize I can't help everyone, especially those who don't want or care about themselves.
Of course, 'footsoldier' doesn't provide Wayne with any correction of his glaring mistake, either?
Wouldn't you even give it a try, FS?
Or would you like to see Wayne eat the poison pill?
here is the document, would you add or change anything?
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=399961&postcount=7444
Still haven't figured it out, fellows?
Hint: check the original literature................
And when any scientist sees your reposterous claim that 107 tons of anything would make a nano-difference in earth's atmosphere, the article all your dumbass 'friends' have congratulated you on(hee-hee-hee) will be seen as the farce that is Wayne Hall.
Wayne, I did my best to find a scientist in your own town who co-authored the IPCC TAR and who should have been able to set you straight on your mistaken claim that ~107 tons of anything could affect the global climate. Perhaps Greek scientists just aren't as world-class as they should be. it also goes to show you that many of the authors of these mega-deceptions have no idea what is the in the document they put their imprimatur on.
Word.
Most politicians have easy access to qualified scientists. When they consult with them, the scientists read your people's tripe from "educate-yourself" or your preposterous claim about 107 tons making a change in climate, and the scientist will just tell the politician they can blow it all off, just another nutcase conspiracy theory from alien believers or nutters like Jim Phelps who don't have any idea what they are talking about.

Wayne, real activists would have found answers to these questions ages ago.
I asked them as challenges to you, but rather than step up to the challenge, you chose to skirt around the hard questions and try to get me banned for asking. You sought instead to misquote real scientists, you tried to pawn off bogus claims that ~107 tons of whatnium would change earth's climate, and perhaps worst of all you chose to run behind whackos like giacomm, whitey, Jim Phelps and the rest to promote what you know to be unsupported by any evidence whatsoever......My conscience is clear, Wayne, I have acted in good faith to help you, not to be your enemy but to be a champion for the truth....You need only look again into the mirror to see your worst enemy. Now, what are you going to do about that?
Oh, and what does ~1x 10 to the seventh power mean to you?
So it doesn't matter, eh Wayne? It matters more than you think it does, for perpetuation of easily debunked myths(like your false claim that ~107 tons of whatnium can affect climate) can only serve to hand debunkers yet another opportunity to demonstrate just how gullible you people really are.
"In relation to ‘geoengineering’, the ‘Climate Change 2001’ report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change confirms that it ‘includes the possibility of engineering the earth’s climate system by large-scale manipulation of the global energy balance. It has been estimated, for example, that the mean effect on the earth surface energy balance from a doubling of CO2 could be offset by an increase of 1.5% to 2% in the earth’s albedo, i.e. by reflecting additional incoming solar radiation back into space…. Teller et al. (1997) found that ~107 t of dielectric aerosols of ~100 nm diameter would be sufficient to increase the albedo of the earth by ~1%. They showed that the required mass of a system based on alumina particles would be similar to that of a system based on sulphuric acid aerosol…(They) demonstrate that use of metallic or optically resonant scatterers can, in principle, greatly reduce the required total mass of scattering particles required.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=HAL20051020&articleId=1120
HA-HA-HA!
YOU PEOPLE GOOFED AGAIN, EVEN AFTER I DID MY BEST TO CORRECT YOU!
CAN'T YOU PEOPLE GET ANYTHING RIGHT???
HOW MANY MORE TIMES WILL WAYNE REPEAT HIS ERROR?
STAY TUNED FOLKS......
So, is it true that you accept individual responsibility for promoting the misinformation that 107 tons of "anyium" would have an effect on climate?

Wayne, the facts of the matter, which I have mentioned to you probably a dozen times, and which not a single chemmie seems to have realized, is that your figure of 107 tons of anything could change earths' climate, is incorrect.

At this point, it seems useless to tell it to you again, so this is the last time I will mention it.
The fact that thus far ou haven't asked a real scientist to verify that what I say is true tells me you haven't actually broachd the subject using that figure with anyone who is competent.
The preceding quotes in evidence positively prove beyond a shadow of a doubtthat I gave notice to both Wayne Hall and 'fotsoldier' fifteen times that the figure of ~107 tons was incorrect, and even directly told him to check the original literature and correct the false information.

There can no longer be any doubt that the bogus information was put there deliberately.

Wayne Hall and 'footsoldier cannot claim ignorance.

The only possible explanation for why they did not change the false information is that they intentionally put it there as a deception.

They knew that if they had properly stated that the immense sum of 20 million tons of aerosols were necessary, nobody would believe their story line.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Jay-Jay Reynolds attempts to sell blind-folds to Americans on chemtrails sciences.

Mother Nature's own clouds over everyones heads since time began are the direct products of air pollutants in the air that drive nucleation of larger droplets making the visible clouds.

Most of these effects stem from DMS/DMSO effects emitted from Oceans and yet other comes from volcanic releases of acids and particles.

Mother Natures own clouds have never been just water vapor, but the result of trace levels of air pollutants forming the catalysist for forming cloud forming droplets from the transparent water vapor in the atmosphere.

Jay-Jay, I think I can Spin, Reynolds attempts to blind-fold all of America to that simple a fact of Mother Nature's own ways, that clouds have never been just water vapor or condensate there-off, but the products of chemistry.


The same Jay-Jay, I think I can Spin, Reynolds attempts to take the chemistry out of jet plane emissions is just as evident. Jet planes emit chemical trails, never just transparent water vapor, and both the burn chemistry of the jet engines and the fuel formulations can easily be changed to support cloud formation.

The long standing DOE Project called "Global Shield" well knows all this real science and used that knowledge of cloud science to change up how jets interact with the atmosphere so as to form more clouds and mimic mother nature's way, to a degree, this to replace some of the UV-b damage to ocean surfaces and loss of cloud chemical mechanism quantities there.


Put simply, if Mother Nature knows clouds stem from trace pollutant effects in the atmosphere acting on nature water vapor, then most real scienctists today know that no clouds are just water vapor. Jay-Jay Reynolds is not a real scientist, but is a poltical GOP cover up artist.

The real scientists all know that there are methods to manipulate this atmospheric chemistry to have man's jet planes form clouds also. And from the DOE Chemtrails sciences there are multiple methods to accomplish this, some of them beginning even int the times Vietnam.

Some of the most well known methods for making clouds use polar chemicals, many of them being acids. From that one of the easiest chemtrail methods comes from EDB, which forms HBr in the burn products, which acts as a polar chemical that attracts polar water vapor to form visible droplets that make clouds.

Everyone that has ever seen a fuming acid, or a high concentration acid, evaporate into air has seen the effect of a polar acid in making water vapor in the air form visible droplets. Such is a very common occurance around DOE's nuclear weapons plants when UF-6 is released to air forming HF, which forms massive and thick clouds from such polar acid effects on water vapor in the atmosphere.

There are many other methods using chemistry and states to accomplish having jet planes make clouds to change up the Earth's albedo, and mediate Global Warming to some degree.

All those chemtrail methods are designed on using Mother Nature's own methods of trace chemicals and their states in the air to produce clouds, and using the very high masses of water vapor in the air to collect, produce, the mass needed for higher reflective particle masses. And since Jet planes are a global thing, it becomes a Global Shield, that comprises millions of tons of water vapor formed into nucleated water droplets called clouds daily.

This effect is already being acknowledged as changing the Earth's Albedo in various locations of the planet, and as such already mediating the Global Warming effects to a noticable degree.


Jay-Jay, I think I can Spin, Reynolds attempts to fool everyone about Mother Nature's own methods that have been using real trace pollution methods for forming clouds since time began on little blue water laden planet Earth.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

It isn't nice to try and deceive peole of the ways that Mother Nature makes clouds from water vapor, or to deceive them that jet planes entered that game too.

As can be clearly seen above the heads of anyone, and seeing is believing.


That believing says Jay-Jay, The Spin-Man, Reynolds tells lies for the GOP mafia.

Jay-Jay needs a padded jail cell and a straigh jacket, rather than an internet connection that he uses to attempt to defraud people of the truth happening in the skies and the impacts of human induced global warming effects being all well connected.

[siegmund]

JP Master of Distraction,

Note that the topic of this thread is 107 versus 10,000,000 tons.
Not a single word on this matter from the ct inventor's side. Very significant.
Not even mother nature now can help.

[jayreynolds]

JP Master of Distraction,

Note that the topic of this thread is 107 versus 10,000,000 tons.
Not a single word on this matter from the ct inventor's side. Very significant.
Not even mother nature now can help.
Very perceptive, Siegmund. Yes Jim Phelps actually was asked if he found anything wrong with Wayne Hall's essay:

IS can you detect any mistakes in my text? In any case I have merely copied from the IPCC. There is no other scientific content.
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=400401&postcount=7448
I don't need your advice on correcting it thank you, and I didn't seek Jim Phelps's advice in drafting it. It has no scientific content anyway. It is all politics.
"Your buddy" Chem 11 liked it, or at least liked it before I added the last paragraph. Perhaps he still does.http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=400420
Jimbo, Wayne asked you a question.
Will you not even respond to your only "ally"?
Where is your substance, Jimbo?
Without it you are becoming irrelevant.
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=400452
The piece in question has a few problems and others well put.
Industry has long provided the SOx compounds that formed aerosols and clouds, which contributed to weather modification. As we change these emissions, so we see changes in the opposite direction making some drought patterns and worsening global warming's impact.
Likewise, Jet planes have long been contributing toward environmental harm, and just like the coal emissions are being modified, so have jet plane emissions been modified.
We have known these interactions for many decades and they are being managed and enter into weather control and mediation tactics for the UV-b damage.
Seeding hurricanes is possible. I don't think this has been done, but the technologies and level of understanding to do this are becoming broadly known.
The current hurricane mess is mostly man's damage to the ocean's heat balance from UV-b effects, and this leads to more intense and more frequent hurricanes.
Man has screwed up Mother Nature's balance and now man pays these costs. Older ways of putting the same issues is from terms of Revelations (Pontifications on Nature of things to come), where God (Nature) is punishing man for lack of respect for nature and a greed for money(root of evil).http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=400461&postcount=7456

As the above evidence shows, both Wayne Hall and I asked Jimbo if he could find any errors.
The self-proclaimed "Inventor of chemtrails", Jim Phelps, never said a word about the pertinent error of fact.

So much for Jimbo helping you out, Wayne.................

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Persons like Wayne Hall get huge ratings compared to Jay Reynolds. The simple fact that Reynolds tells so many lies and stories short of the truth always gives Wayne Hall the higher respect.

After all this time, Jay-Jay's Spins get absolutely no where.

Jet emissions involve millions of tons of atmospheric water vapor nucleated into clouds, and Wayne Hall's basic thesis points toward that level of involvment with the daily jet flights going on world-wide.


Everyone recognizes Jay-Jay, the spin master, always just spins like a top.

And we don't pay attempt at deception any mind.

[foot_soldier]

Knock it off, Reynolds.

Your little pulp fiction project has absolutely nothing to do with my work of the last five years.

I'd take you to court at this point for libel, misrepresentation and harrassment if I had the funding to retain an attorney.
.

[jayreynolds]

Knock it off, Reynolds.

Your little pulp fiction project has absolutely nothing to do with my work of the last five years.

I'd take you to court at this point for libel, misrepresentation and harrassment if I had the funding to retain an attorney.

Five years ago, 'footsoldier' began threatening me with the same lame "legal action".
Just another case of "chemmie" talk, but no action.
When she continues this sort of empty bluster for years, it shows her inability to make a credible response to criticism.

She helped spearhead a mass mailing campaign to have my free web host delete my website because it documented her participation in the "chemtrails" hoax.
That campaign was also a failure, my website stands.

The sum total of her "work" has been to copy/paste news articles and promulgate hoax documents. Thousands upon thousands of copy-cat news articles, all of no use whatsoever, and none of which did anything to prove her claims about "chemtrails", not a single one.

Let the record show that the result of her "work of the last five years" has been of no use at all and of no result whatsoever. She has not grown in either maturity nor mastery of the subject matter, as evidenced once again on this message board thread.

You chemmies are a big bunch of blubbering fools. Not a single one of you can recognize gross errors in the facts which you falsely believe undrpins your claims.

It is so very easy to catch you time after time in your lies, by now there are so many of them, and also so many holes in the hoax- you could never plug them all.

In the final analysis, you remain embittered failures, pitiful people obsessed with a lie, and lying to yourselves as if you are proud of it.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Everytime one of those satellite images shows the massive amounts of jet chemtrails pathways, it just shows how much Jay-Bird, Spinner, Reynolds attempts to mislead folks.

Pictures are worth a million words, and they show a million tons of aerosols associated with jet pathways.

Which shows Jay-Bird, needs to become a Jail-bird for telling too many lies for the GOP that doesn't want to associted the Ocean Surface cloud systems effects to the need to chemtrails compensation activities.

[stuart_allsop]

Well done Jay! Congratulations.

I think you’ve just done a magnificent job of destroying a pair of chemmie hoaxsters, and their reputations. From here on in, they will be the laughing stock of the scientific community :)

I'm actually shocked: I never would have guessed that Halva was ignorant of scientific notation, and can't tell the difference between 107 and 10,000,000.

[halva]

Allslop you can join Raynolds and Siegface in their pilgrimage to IPCC to lodge their complaint.

[halva]

Raynolds, this flogging a dead horse with a red herring is not going to win you any kudos.

All that it is necessary is to point out that you are a climate change debunker and you are toast.

You are apparently attempting to apply with me the approach you used with those in the past who set themselves the task of 'proving' the existence of chemtrails to the powers that be. That is not the approach that I use and you will search in vain in my latest article to find an assertion that can be shot down using the methods that are habitual to you.

The campaign you have started against IPCC documents is a losers' strategy.

[halva]

Be aware that I intend to present the case laid out in this thread to each of the websites which have published your essay.

Please do, and please keep us posted. Every such action on your part broadens and strengthens my support network.

[jayreynolds]

Allslop you can join Raynolds and Siegface in their pilgrimage to IPCC to lodge their complaint.

Wayne, the IPCC has been informed of their error for some time now, by me, because your people wouldn't do it. The fact of that matter are that the document is literally filled with error, and bloated socialist organizations take their time, thus ensuring full employment.
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email sent to webmaster@grida.no
Dear Sir/Madam,
I regret to inform you that some errors exist in your html rendition of the IPCC Third Asessment Report. There is a discrepancy between the .pdf format document, which is accurate, and the html version, which is in error.

Please note that on this webpage, third paragraph from the bottom, you will find the following passages:
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg3/176.htm

"In agreement with the 1992 NAS study, Teller et al. (1997) found that ~107 t of dielectric aerosols of ~100 nm diameter would be sufficient to increase the albedo of the earth by ~1%."

"In principle, only ~105t of such mesh structures are required to achieve the benchmark 1% increase in albedo."

"They are hydrogen filled and are designed to float at altitudes of ~25km. The total mass of the balloon system would be ~106t."

In each of these passages, the figures ~107t, ~105t, and ~106 tons are incorrect. The true figures are ~10 to the seventh power, ~10 to the fifth power, and ~10 to the sixth power. Most likely, this error came about when text was copied using a format which did not support superscript numerals.

You may easily confirm the correct figures by referring to the .pdf file here, at page 334:
http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg3/pdf/4.pdf

It is quite likely that similar errors have occurred throughout the html version of the document whenever a superscript or subscript text was encountered.

I hope that some person with scientific ability, an eye for accuracy, and plenty of time can be gainfully employed to copy/edit the report, which deserves to be as accurate in text, if not in fact, as possible.


Best regards,
Jay Reynolds
================================================== =

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Be sure to lay out the case of Jay Reynolds being a propagandist:



Interesting article, BC, showing that 2 million grams of carbon are absorbed by one hectare of trees.

here is a link to a CO2 calculator which gives results for household usage in terms of how many trees it takes to sequester a family's production.
http://www.americanforests.org/resources/ccc/index.php

For our family, it takes 80 new trees/year to sequester our production.

Our farm contains 40 acres of forest land. I estimate an average of 200 trees/acre in this mostly hardwood stand, which is almost mature, and which I harvest for various uses and cull for firewood. This yields a total of 8000 trees. Thus, our family's carbon output has been balanced for the next 100 years.

My grandfather established a pine tree farm of 300 acres about fifty years ago, and it is now jointly owned by his grandchildren. Two years ago a clearcut harvest was made, and the acreage was immediately replanted at around 700/acre. This yields a total of 210,000 trees sequestering carbon.

Considering that there are about 18 people in our extended family, our collective carbon has been sequestered for the next 145 years.

Of course, trees don't live forever, and the 210,000 trees will be replanted every fifty years, thus assuring a perpetual carbon sink for up to 32 families of the size and energy usage of my own.

How many of you can say that you are being so responsible?

I'm serious.

I'd like to know.
__________________
Contrails, or 'Trails-CON?
A website reviewing the facts and the claims about the Contrails/Chemtrails controversy
by Jay Reynolds
http://goodsky.homestead.com/files/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by jayreynolds : 48 Minutes Ago at 04:18 AM.

jayreynolds



Reynolds caught telling another parade of lies




#200 14 Minutes Ago
Insurrectionchemistry
Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: near Oak Ridge
Posts: 2,285


Re: Weather Manipulation




Full truth, not propaganda.

Jay Reynolds job for the Hess oil refinery essentially more than exceeded his family CO-2 lifetime balance in a single day.

Jay Reynolds long term employment at Hess oil exceeded all his entire extended family lifetime CO-2 balance in a single month.

Jay Reynolds working for one of the largest of the Hess oil refineries in the world and that contribution to world CO-2 is quite large, and all these trees offsetting that effect is typical of the Jay Reynolds hoaxes.

Jay Reynolds is one of the biggest promoters of CO-2 emissions in the world, having made is living by production of CO-2 emitting fossil fuel, not to mention Jay Reynolds oil driven turbine systems power plant direct emissions of CO-2.


Jay Reynolds supported one of the largest oil refineries in the world to the tune of processing for burning millions of gallons of petroleum, or tanker after tanker load of oil, which amounts to huge numbers for CO-2 emissions. The real truth is even a state sized forest could not offset the CO-2 emissions associated with Jay Reynolds.


As Reynolds avoids truth here, so does he avoid truth on Southern Ocean effects from UV-b effects on cloud forming emissions, and jet planes massive effect on making clouds easily seen in satellite photos from NASA / NOAH, etc.




One can only conclude that Jay Reynolds is a pathological liar.

[jayreynolds]

Jimbo, why do your people feel the need to spam the threads?

Why won't you explain your failure to address the question of whether you have taken care of sequestering your own carbon output?

[halva]

Wayne, the IPCC has been informed of their error for some time now, by me, because your people wouldn't do it. The fact of that matter are that the document is literally filled with error, and bloated socialist organizations take their time, thus ensuring full employment.


Raynolds you will receive as much attention from people here in Europe generally as you have received from the IPCC.

As for all this 'socialist organizations' stuff in relation to the United Nations, all you are showing by this kind of baloney is that you don't know how to modify your message to fit the preconceptions of your audience. In other words that you are a yokel, not to mention politically incompetent.

Do you think you are addressing an audience in Texas or Alabama or somewhere?

[jayreynolds]

Raynolds you will receive as much attention from people here in Europe generally as you have received from the IPCC.

As for all this 'socialist organizations' stuff in relation to the United Nations, all you are showing by this kind of baloney is that you don't know how to modify your message to fit the preconceptions of your audience. In other words that you are a yokel, not to mention politically incompetent.

Do you think you are addressing an audience in Texas or Alabama or somewhere?
Wayne, the truth is the truth.

The truth needs no "modification", it stands on it's own.

Indeed, any attempt at "modifying" the truth means that the person is then NOT TELLING THE TRUTH!

Man, are you twisted, or what? This whole thread was about how you and 'footsoldier' tried "modifying" what a scientific paper said, 10 MILLION TONS and trying to bamboozle people into thinking they said 107 tons.

When are you going to get it through your big fat Greek head that such lies are easily destroyed by THE TRUTH, which stands up to all comers ALL BY ITSELF with no modification whatsoever?

Only a loser tries to "modify" the truth, as demonstrated in this thread.

[halva]

The only point in the IPCC report that is going to matter to anybody is that they are giving favourable coverage to Teller's relevant geoengineering ideas. This is what surprises people and makes an impression.

Whether they are proposing to spray ten million tons of aerosols or 107 tons of aerosols is of interest only to you, because you wish to claim that the former figure would indicate that they are not doing what they propose, or what they think might be possible. Only you would draw this conclusion, or claim to.

Of course you also claim that the latter figure would indicate the same thing, because the amount would be too small to have any effect.

My case rests entirely on the assertion that if they are implementing the ideas they have foreshadowed in their report, and if they are doing so outside the framework of international law, then they must either cease this activity or legalize it.

[jayreynolds]

My case rests entirely on if they are implementing the ideas

Exactly. And with no evidence whatsoever, where does your case stand?

Exactly nowhere, Wayne.

Now you can argue till hell freezes over that laws should be made for or against such ideas.

When people look deep enough, however, that is the only thing you are recommending that they do!

Don't you get it, Wayne?

It is only in your twisted little frustrated mind that you somehow bypass all logic and think any of those actions support your asssumption!

People with intact logically functioning brains and without your biased preconceptions simply won't get it!

For those people, nothing short of THE TRUTH based on fact and reality will ever do.
Those people are unavailable for you to manipulate. They won't get it the way you do.

Don't believe me?

Look at your results so far.

Where are the scientists lining up behind you?

Jimbo, the copy/paste scientist who doesn't even know the difference between 107 and 10 MILLION TONS?

Where's the proof in your pudding, Wayne?

Where are your results?

[halva]

It is eminently possible to start political initiatives around the question of restoring legality, and no more evidence is required than what is available.

[siegmund]

Interesting article, BC, showing that 2 million grams of carbon are absorbed by one hectare of trees. Hello Jay,

planting trees
is one of the first necessary steps to turn back the clock.

What about a "special tree" absorbing not only approximately
4,000 kgs of carbon per hectare & year (double of common trees)
but also producing 200 kgs of protein (with all essential amino acids)
plus 200 kgs of vegetable oil (with all mono and polyunsaturated fatty acids)?

Why not combine carbon absorption with premium food production thus resolving two problems?

siegmund

[jayreynolds]

Hello Jay,

planting trees
is one of the first necessary steps to turn back the clock.

What about a "special tree" absorbing not only approximately
4,000 kgs of carbon per hectare & year (double of common trees)
but also producing 200 kgs of protein (with all essential amino acids)
plus 200 kgs of vegetable oil (with all mono and polyunsaturated fatty acids)?

Why not combine carbon absorption with premium food production thus resolving two problems?

siegmund

Siegmund, the tree you are writing about sounds similar to the Brazil nut.
Bertholletia excelsa

I have about 100 Black American walnut trees on my property. these produce the highest valued wood and nuts in North America. We pick up the nuts after they fall, place them on a roadway and run across them with the tractor to slip off the soft outer hulls. We then put the hard-shelled part in a small concrete mixer along with water and tumble them for 1/2 hour to remove the balance of the hulls, then put them on screens to dry and cure. By Christmas they are ready to crack and eat.
Delicious.
The black walnut wood is prized for fine furniture building and due to a tornado several years ago, I was able to have a supply sawn which is ready to use. When we first got our property we planted about 200 trees, but since then I have been clearing out brush and finding wild seedlings which I have now "released" and will be mature in time for use by my children when they grow up.

Tell me the name of the tree you mention.

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Haaa....

Jay-goober screws up again.

Mother Nature, all across most of the US, starts growing trees all by herself. Just walk off and leave some open ground and trees just sping up all over the place.

All this hoorah on planting trees is something Momma Nature always does.

Jay-Jay also burns his trees, which means he puts the Carbon back into the air. Jay-goober has this facination with things that burn---oil refineries, lard turbines, his own trees, and usually his own rear in the pits of hell.


Like most GOP spin-masters, they always get found out for making something of nothing.

[halva]

Raynolds was so incensed by my accusation of having been abandoned by his former ratpack that he has telephoned or e-mailed them all and brought some of them back, and they are now going to start talking about trees.

Personally I don't mind, if they are knowledgeable, and confine themselves to making constructive proposals within those very limited confines. Some of my closest real-life collaborators spend their time on initiatives like planting trees, and I don't make fun of them. That's what they like doing, and can do, and it is certainly better than building freeways or speculating on the stock exchange.

[stuart_allsop]

Allslop you can join Raynolds and Siegface in their pilgrimage to IPCC to lodge their complaint.

Why would I do that, Halva? They are note the ones perpetuating a hoax, and deliberately quoting numbers that are wrong by FIVE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE.

I ask you, Halva-brain. what type of scientist would confuse "107" for 10^7"?

He he he... How terribly embarrasing for you, Halva-brain. And to be caught out by Jay, of all people! ha ha ha! You must be absolutely FUMING about that!

hooo hoooo hoooo!!!!

:)

[stuart_allsop]

Raynolds, this flogging a dead horse with a red herring is not going to win you any kudos.Ahhhh! So not only do you like to mix up your number systems, you also like to mix up your metaphors, I see.... :)

You are batting a hundred today, Halva-brain? Or mnaybe it is a hundred million? Hard to say, isn't it. Such a tiny little difference between the two...

[stuart_allsop]

My case rests entirely on the assertion that if they are implementing the ideas they have foreshadowed in their report, and if they are doing so outside the framework of international law, then they must either cease this activity or legalize it.Well, if your "entire case" rests on that, then you have no case! #1) There is not the slightest scrap of evidence that "they" (whoever that might be) are "implementing the ideas", and #2) therefore "they" cannot possibly be "doing it illegally".

So I guess you just proved that you lost your own case, Halva.

Oh dear...

But I do SO love it when you debunk yourself.... :)

[stuart_allsop]

Personally I don't mind, if they are knowledgeable, and confine themselves to making constructive proposals within those very limited confines. Well then, Halva-brain, I guess you are going to be dissapointed, because I most certainly will not limit what I discuss here to what YOU want me to discuss. Who in hell are YOU to tell ME what I can or cannot discuss here? I mean, you can't even tell the difference between a tiny bathtub and a huge lake, so why would I respect your opinion on anything? And if you were to speak of trees, I'd be very wary of what you have to say, since you'd probably confuse a 1/2 inch weed for a full-grown California Redwood!

I think your little debacle with tons and millions of tons has made you totally irrelevant to even participating in this discussion anyway, let alone to the position of trying to LEAD it.... What a joke THAT would be!

[halva]

I'm ignore-listing you Allslop.

[stuart_allsop]

I'm ignore-listing you Allslop.

Gee, that's strange: I thought you already had? :)

I distinctly remember that you had repeatedly said you couldn't read what I was saying as you had me ignore listed, yet here you are, reading me loud and clear, and ignore listing me AGAIN.

How does that work, Halva-brain?

In other words, I just caught you in yet another lie: You never did ignore-list me last time, and neither have you done so now.

And I am simply FLATTERED that you are so terrified of what I have to say that you refuse to even look at it! I guess I’m a MUCH bigger danger to you than I had ever imagined! After all, if I were not significant or relevant in your life, you would simply just laugh at me and not respond, so that cannot be the reason. No, clearly you are PETRIFIED by my presence here again.

This is GOOD, Halva!

Thank you for giving my ego that wonderful boost!

Now that I know for sure what a big threat I am to your plans, I will make a point to stick around and debunk you even more.

If I have made you soil your underwear so badly after just a couple of posts, imagine how bad it is going to be after 107 posts? Or should that be "after ten million posts"? (Please excuse me: I keep forgetting which is which.... :) )

[foot_soldier]

One can only conclude that Jay Reynolds is a pathological liar.
Reynolds is in fact a habitual and pathological liar.

As for the "mass mailing campaign" of which he accused me a few posts back, the fact is that this "campaign" involved a total of two (2) e-mails to the web-hosting service he was using at the time. I submitted an eminently civil request to this web hosting service to look into Reynolds' use of their venue for purposes of destroying the reputations of his selected "victims", one of whom was an individual Reynolds described as, among other things, "an alchoholic" and "insane" in a section of his shitty website that was specifically set up to destroy, in the most vicious way possible, this particular individual's credibility.

I thought this abuse needed to be stopped - and the web hosting service in question apparently agreed with me since Reynolds' entire web site was removed from service within 24 hours of my e-mail appeal.

The second e-mail was written by me to thank this web hosting service for its timely response.

Both e-mails were co-signed by three other parties. That makes a total of four parties involved in this appeal.

Some "mass mailing" campaign.

And as for the rest of Reynolds' BS, I'm going to continue to do exactly what I've been doing for the last five years, but with more time being spent on activity in offline venues. In fact this is already underway and the timing is turning out to be quite good.

[stuart_allsop]

I'm going to continue to do exactly what I've been doing for the last five yearsOh, so you are going to continue to spew nonsense, are you? Well, that figures. We expected nothing less... Five years and counting: Why would you change now?

Are you going to pay me the great honor of ignore-listing me, too? Or at least CLAIM that you will, like Halfa-brain just did?

I certainly hope you do: I will wear that as a badge of pride, knowing that you fear me as much as Halfa-brain does....

[jayreynolds]

I submitted an eminently civil request to this web hosting service to look into Reynolds' use of their venue for purposes of destroying the reputations of his selected "victims", one of whom was an individual Reynolds described as, among other things, "an alchoholic" and "insane" in a section of his shitty website that was specifically set up to destroy, in the most vicious way possible, this particular individual's credibility.

Hey, since you liked it so much, 'footsoldier', here it is again.

Oh, and by the way, after 'footsoldier' was successful in getting one free host to delete my website, I made a deal with her. I told her that any further attempts at such a pogrom would result in two more websites, and any further attempts would result in three more on top of those! Evidently it was a deal she could not work against. I had no more problems.

"Mark Sky" - Chemtrail's DRUNKEN AND INSANE Poet Laureate Comes Clean
Quote -"i am friggin nuts"
The words below come from a chemtrail message board, and were written by "Mark Sky", an ardent "chemtrail believer", who has posted nearly 2000 messages many of which are poems about his beliefs. Beginning in 1999, "Mark Sky" appeared more or less rational, but he now claims to have experienced symptoms of exposure to "chemtrails" SINCE 1987 which include, "dizzy days of uncoordination and like the life had somehow been sucked out of my eye sockets, the sore dry eyes, the funny sore throat, the swollen lymph nodes in the neck, ect." .

He is now a major promoter the "Aliens are making the chemtrails" idea. Here is what he had to say five years ago:
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000171.html
“OUR PLANET AND ALL SPECIES UPON IT
ARE BEING ALTERED"
this “theory” is that through the use of genetically engineered food, air, altered news, ECT
this planet has been invaded and continues to be invaded by an alien life force
this force does not “like” the way this planet is
and seeks to alter it in every fashion to better represent that which suits it
humans as such do not suit it
nor do alder trees nor native salmioids
http://www.greenpeace.org/~geneng/reports/bio/bio016.htm
"my current “theory”
{which is subject to constant change as evidence rolls in}
is that in the very early years of nuclear destructive capacity {late 1940’s}
we were “re~visited” by “alien” entities who sensed by our actions that we were ripe for “harvest”
at that time the hitler~ ian mindset was saved by both the soviets and US power brokers
and the truly evil elements of the “pure race” types were saved and even fought over
by the two major powers to gain the ultime~ate upper hand
yet the scientists that each side pardoned from their unspeakable sins
to make ultimate power over the "other side"
and eventually over their own people
the power that came from the new world oder
the power was in fact alien nation
and hidden by “national security”
and anti~human
a need to hide under granite mountains
a need to carve out 4 square mile cities deep under the earth
connected by melted subways
a power to make every planetary citizen so afraid
that they would rather separate themselves from the horrendous reality
than face the truth
you ask a simple 3 line question elvis
but the response is quite complex
do I think weather modification is involved
why of course the answer is yes
if you think that is all I think
then the answer is know~more
there is so much more
I believe that there is an ongoing program to “modify”
The entire genetic code of this planet
Via genetically engineered corn, soybeans, and even fish
http://www.nbiap.vt.edu/brarg/brasym96/sutterlin96.htm
I believe that the US~EPA, the CDC,
The USAF, the congress, and ”the powers that be”
Have sold their ALL MIGHTY SOULS
Out to the ~saTan~ INC.
I believe that this planet is being terraformed to suit beings unlike myself
Unlike the beings that have roamed this sphere for eons
I believe that the intentional release of SP6 into the atmosphere
Is intended to terror~form this planet for the domi~nation
Of lifeforms other than humans
I believe that the “environ~mentalist” movement
Is anti~ human
And anti “old world order”
So now dearElvis {and the jay~seeker machine}
Feel free to broadly paint me with your
“Kook~brush”
for I have given you the ammunition you need to fire upon me
will you immeadiately discredit
or will you copy this to a data base like “theseeker” does
and fire it out 11 months later?
Let me ask you a simple question {like you asked me}
Will we be here in 12 months discussing such topics?
~END~

Postlogue: For the past five years, 'Mark Sky" has contented himself with composing nonsense "poems" about satanic alien beasties who torment him day and night . He is of no value any longer to himself or his family.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread1869-885.html

'footsoldier' and the other promoters all bear some responsibility for keeping the poor boy insane by promotion of the "chemtrails" hoax. Rather than suggest he seek mental health care, they have asked him time and time again to stay within their cult, even when he tried to leave.

It's just one of many sad stories that have resulted from their actions.

[stuart_allsop]

Hey, since you liked it so much, 'footsoldier', here it is again.
Say, Jay, if you ever need another mirror site for your web site, just let me know: I´d be more than happy to host it for you, for free. Especially if it will annoy FootsieSoldier and Halfa-brain!

[foot_soldier]

I see it's the "Jay and Stuey" Show again.

<yawn>

Hey, aren't you good Christian boys due for another phone call to someone's employer?

Idiots.

[halva]

You see that if one has laboured at great expense in terms of time and energy to drag a site up to a level higher than that of other forums (specifically the forums that Raynolds and company ridicule) then Raynolds and his returning rat pack are not content until they have got it down to a state where they once again can feel superior. This is the 'freedom of speech' that BC so single-mindedly and persistently defends.

It is taken for granted that one is and will be involved in off-line activity. That is beside the point when what is involved is the quality of one's on-line activity.

I remind all non-debunkers, BC included, much as I deplore her share of responsibility for such successes as Raynolds scores here, that there remains the possibility of transferring substantial debate to the closed forum at which FS, WMM and I, plus others, are already inscribed, and keeping only a token presence at Arianna's.

Of course BC may prefer the 'freedom of speech' environment here. On record, she does. All that remains now is for her to address a chatty posting directly to Allslop and the preference will be confirmed.

Despite the fact that it is precisely this American 'freedom of speech' that leads so many people in Europe to being unwisely closed-minded in relation to the United States, I do not want to succumb myself to the same closed-mindedness, merely for the sake of retaining elementary intellectual coherence and a climate of reason.

[halva]

There is also the option of us making a co-ordinated decision to ignore-list all debunkers, including Reynolds. In the past even FS rejected this option, but it seems to me that failure to implement an explicit co-ordinated response to the return of Raynolds' old rat pack will inevitably mean disintegration of whatever level of positive interaction has been achieved here. This is something that it is much easier to do in real life than on-line, but in my view it is worth trying.

If everyone simply ignores what I am saying, I do not predict a very good outcome in terms of the quality of interaction here at 'Science in the News'.

[stuart_allsop]

I see it's the "Jay and Stuey" Show again.

<yawn>

Hey, aren't you good Christian boys due for another phone call to someone's employer?


Cool! Who would you like me to call?

[stuart_allsop]

If everyone simply ignores what I am saying, Don't feel too bad about that, Halva-brain. After all, everyone generally DOES completely ignore what you say, since it is generally so very kooky... In fact, I can't think of anyone at all who takes you seriously any more, Even BC and Whitey question your sanity.

I do not predict a very good outcome in terms of the quality of interaction here at 'Science in the News'."Science in the news" huh"? So THAT'S what this thread is called? I must say that I really can't see why it is called that: I've seen precious little news here, and even less science... Except that which Jay and Sig have posted.

By the way, Halva-brain, I'm highly gratified to note that, since you cannot beat me and cannot ignore-list me, that you have therefore decided to take yourself and your alchemy underground, where nobody will ever here of you again. This is good: It will save a lot of people from wasting their valuable time, trying to figure out how ten million can be equal to a hundred and seven.....

[halva]

[b]
Postlogue: For the past five years, 'Mark Sky" has contented himself with composing nonsense "poems" about satanic alien beasties who torment him day and night . He is of no value any longer to himself or his family.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/thread1869-885.html


Bringing Mark Sky to Arianna's is just par for the course for Raynolds.

[stuart_allsop]

Bringing Mark Sky to Arianna's is just par for the course for Raynolds.Jay didn't bring Mark Sky over here, Halfa-brain! It was your alter-ego FootsieSoldier that did it. Jay just brought along the evidence to prove Footsie wrong. And Jay succeeded admirably at that, too. He only had to do it once. Not a hunderd and seven times, or ten millions times. Oooops! Sorry! I forgot! To you, that’s the same number! My apologies...

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Well, if it isn't the abusive Chilean hate monger, who doesn't believe in Jesus.

The person that supports the pervert that was so abusive to people that his web site was pulled, so now he attacks people on Ariannas with the same BS.

[jayreynolds]

It's true, Jimbo. FS deliberately brought "Mark Sky" into the discussion to turn it into a circus like Chemtrailcentral. She is always running over there scheming with her buddy Mech and Swampy.

She never lifetd a finger or spoke out when they banned you there. She is always trying to bend the discussion away from "Air Pharmacology".
Ever notice how she has never reposted or gotten into discussions about your work?

Think about it...............

[foot_soldier]

Reynolds is in fact a habitual and pathological liar.

As for the "mass mailing campaign" of which he accused me a few posts back, the fact is that this "campaign" involved a total of two (2) e-mails to the web-hosting service he was using at the time. I submitted an eminently civil request to this web hosting service to look into Reynolds' use of their venue for purposes of destroying the reputations of his selected "victims", one of whom was an individual Reynolds described as, among other things, "an alchoholic" and "insane" in a section of his shitty website that was specifically set up to destroy, in the most vicious way possible, this particular individual's credibility.

I thought this abuse needed to be stopped - and the web hosting service in question apparently agreed with me since Reynolds' entire web site was removed from service within 24 hours of my e-mail appeal.

The second e-mail was written by me to thank this web hosting service for its timely response.

Both e-mails were co-signed by three other parties. That makes a total of four parties involved in this appeal.

Some "mass mailing" campaign.

And as for the rest of Reynolds' BS, I'm going to continue to do exactly what I've been doing for the last five years, but with more time being spent on activity in offline venues. In fact this is already underway and the timing is turning out to be quite good.
.

[foot_soldier]

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW12-07-05.jpg

[stuart_allsop]

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW12-07-05.jpg

Excellent illustration, Footsie!

Would you just LOOK at how that dumb kook of a penguin walks away without even trying to defend his case? And did you notice that the silly moonbat of a penguin didn't have one little scrap of evidenece to support his stupid, dispicable position? What a nut. Typical leftist democrat kook type behavior: Make an outrageous unsusbtantiated claim, don't bother to provide any evidence or support, then just turn around and walk away as soon as the dialogue starts. Absolutely typical!

Just like Halva, in fact, don't you think?

Very appropriate cartoon...

:)

[stuart_allsop]

Well, if it isn't the abusive Chilean hate monger, who doesn't believe in Jesus..Wrong on all counts. Particularly the last one. Jesus is my lord and my saviour, so how could I "not believe in Him"? He he he... nice try. Bait much?

[siegmund]

Tell me the name of the tree you mention. Okay Jay,

You (typically?) associated one of the biggest and most famous nuts.
I myself think of a very tiny and unimpressive one.
But for me it derives from the magic tree of wisdom.
More to find at Weather Manipulation soon.

siegmund

[jayreynolds]

It's rather funny watching the position Wayne finds himself in.

If he changes the 107 tons to 10 million tons, he will be right, but then nobody will believe his plot. It takes the wind out of his sails completely.

It also means that his worst enemy was right, that he got caught looking like a fool, and Jay Reynolds can force him to do whatever he wants, whenever he wants.

If he doesn't change the 107 tons, his essay will always be subject to attack, hopelessly flawed and vulnerable, ready to be considered a laughing stock at any moment, especially by the very scientists he says he wants to enlist in his cause!

If he removes the passage entirely, it is a sign that he was wrong, but that I am also correct in my claim that he wrote the 107 tons figure deliberately, and that he cannot afford at any cost letting anyone know about the real 10 million ton figure.

Then, there are the other "Poison Pill errors" in his essay that I didn't even disclose to him yet!

Hope you have a good night's rest Wayne.

More to come.........

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Even with Wayne Hall's blatant stupidity in recounting numbers from science reports, all he needs to do is correctly state the number.

Then learn how to read scientific notation and get all the other moron listing data to edit their numbers so they are correctly stated on the Forum's lister.

If Hall fails to learn science, these Gilligan type problems will continue.

The current chemtrail mass numbers are well approaching the 10^7 number and is the target of the DOE's Global Shield, to mediate Global Warming using cloud making. Chemtrails techniques make use of the existing water vapor in the air, and use catalytic methods to nucleate the water vapor into the reflective particle aerosols for Mie Scattering. Thus, small masses of material and catalystic styled methods allow for the much higher masses to be gathered from the air, as Mother Nature's Suns heating effects did most of the lifting work to get the water vapor skyward.

The Project was formed as I found the UV-b effects on Ocean's Cloud making systems and came up with many ideas to use jet emissions to counter that loss of cloud shielding. Mother Nature uses a like method with cloud seeding from the phytoplankton emissions. There are massive amounts of water vapor in the atmosphere, and one only has to add some catalytic effects to modify its vapor state to that of refelctive particle aerosol.


Rather simple associations, as ORNL is into radiation effects and knew the UV-b damage factors to Ocean Plankton. ORNL was doing an "Ocean's Report" at the time for the impact of Energy Systems on Oceans and Oak Ridge contributed lots of Freon to push the Ozone Hole's UV-b problems along. The DOE was the single largest Freon polluter in the world, DuPont's best Freon customer.

So, Oak Ridge was the first to spot the Ocean's connections with UV-b and point to the loss of the DMS / DMSO cloud forming system effect. With "El Nino" making the news in the early 80s, this put the interest onto the Ocean's Currents being affected by the increases in Ocean Surface heating due to the UV-b / Ozone Hole / Freon association. CO-2 conversion and sequestration entered the picture.

ORNL being managed by Lockheed-Martin, was the largest of the Mil / Ind Network, that builds jet planes and loved the idea of using jet emissions to mediate the increases in global warming effects due to man's and particularly Oak Ridge's Freon losses contribution to the Ozone Hole and Global Warming effects.

All rather simple associations to make, that doesn't even require much science to comprehind.

[whitemajikman]

questions for JAY REYNOLDS and STUART ALLSOP


1) Has The U.S. Military and by proxy the Government ever lied to it's Citizens regarding experimentation?

2) Is the current U.S. Military and by proxy the Government known for telling the truth?

3) Why did you start debunking "chemtrails"?

4) When did you start debunking "chemtrails"?

5) Does your Debunking of "Chemtrails" help promote "chemtrails"?

6) Is JAY your real first name? If Not Why Lie and Hide?

7) what was your your close association with Bill Cooper all about and where were you when he was murdered ?

8) What makes you think that "Chemtrails" are Not REAL and Not being used by the Military?

9) What percentage of Scientific research and Experimentation is never reported to the public?

10) Why wouldn't those in oversight consider the utilization of already-existing emissions from any of a number of source points if they're (already) the right kind of emissions (i.e. already quantified as net-cooling) for mitigation of greenhouse gas net warming?

WMM