Climate Change [Archive] - Page 6

Boomer Chick

05-23-2007, 12:34 PM

Thanks BC I try...We've had this discussion on where ya lived, and as i said earlier I zipped through your town about a month ago coming home from the springs..I was way out MarkSheffel Blvd and Woodman, thought I'd take a chance and go down BlackForrest rd, I know I've seen a Black Forrest down 83, so I figured what the hell..I didn't end up at 83 and black forrest, althought I took Black Forrest from Woodmen To the end, not sure what that road was but after turning left and getting back to 83, then back to Parker I found that I saved about 25 min. coming home...So that will be a regular way home when I'm out that direction working..

I couldn't see much from the road but i wouldn't doubt the urban sprawl has got to you town also..
Been to Parker lately??Friggin amazing,My Dad's been out here since 82 so I've seen a huge change....All and all it's nice to be away from the city..

PEACE

So did you come in from the airport to see your Dad in Parker? You drove on Black Forest Road and found 83 again and drove it north to Parker? We live just a mile off Black Forest Rd. to your left (west) after you drive past the Shoup/Blk.Frst. intersection with the little log buildings and the old fire station and up the hill before you break out of the trees. Remember that? We live in the forest on five acres and have a great view of Pikes Peak. Awesome! And yet it's only ten or fifteen minutes to the closest mall. We like it and indeed the town is sprawling eastward.

Do you live in Parker or do you live there part - time and/or visit in Parker?

Do you come down here to work or visit people?

I'm a bit confused though I know you live in Colorado.

kola -- Where are you? Are you out near Calhan? Ellicot? Woodland Park? Monument? Palmer Lake? It's so cool that both of you live here, too, and not far away. We'll have to get together sometime this summer. I will attempt to take more pics, too, and share them. It was nice taking a break from watching, you know.

:)

Boomer Chick

05-23-2007, 12:53 PM

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/04/09/bill_ties_climate_to_national_security/

Another double edged sword, Halva.

On the one hand, the US could fund great humanitarian projects and improved alternative energies to help threatened countries devise water systems and improve their energy systems as well. They could target areas that will become needy and attempt to economically improve the situation before starvation sets in or local conflict breaks out. Coordinating with other countries is essential as well.

But then on the other hand, assuming a policing attitude is simply wrong. It's kind of like playing the role of a white blood cell in the global body when all countries could contribute preventative measures to those threatened areas and help them as a united effort if they fail to prepare. Preparation and preventative measures would insure all manner of peaceful adaptation.

Our defense organizations should re-assign and restructure themselves to, with some units, help facilitate moving and infrastructure development for cities and towns threatened by coastal flooding within our borders and as a foreign aid along with other nations. Katrina shows how at this point, even FEMA let our people down. Obviously more personnel and better personnel are needed in this area of adaptation both domestically and abroad.

Under the defense umbrella as well, funding for alternative energies for our companies to exchange and be employed globally for the benefit of various third world countries and for business profits and for the benefit of our own cities and towns would be another humane use of the defense umbrella.

Increased funding for innoculations for the already proven malaria and other common innoculations in Africa and other third world nations would benefit our nation and all of humanity to continue to help in that front. I would call birth control aide a necessity as well given that in the future we may have to be more careful in producing and providing food for so many more people. Birth control is a must. This administration has been against birth control in third world countries............this must change.

The Pentagon under the neocons has changed. It must be returned to how it was, and function with new values which are more humane and less police-state oriented. The Pentagon and CIA must be controlled to do the peoples work, not the other way around.

Watch the double-edged swords !

halva

05-23-2007, 10:12 PM

I am in favour of doing everything we can to strengthen what we hope are possible positive aspects to the military's concern with natural phenomena, encouraging the scientists who are developing the relevant expertise to help us weaken the other aspect, which seeks to use this expertise to harm people and the environment. This doesn't mean that I have any intention of being a Pollyanna.

Boomer Chick

05-24-2007, 08:56 AM

Boomer Chick

05-24-2007, 08:59 AM

Google News Alert for: global warming

Car-makers: nothing 'concrete' links GHG rules, global warming (http://www.legalnewsline.com/news/195530-car-makers-nothing-concrete-links-ghg-rules-global-warming)
Legal News Line - Washington,DC,USA
... about its benefits but "no demonstration ... that the regulations would help address the issue of climate change or global warming in a concrete manner. ...
[/URL]
(http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.legalnewsline.com/news/195530-car-makers-nothing-concrete-links-ghg-rules-global-warming)
Dems in Congress: 'Green-collar jobs' will fight poverty and ... (http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/5/23/152948/562)
Grist Magazine - Seattle,WA,USA
both sit on the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming. Speaker Nancy Pelosi appointed the committee. Markey is the chair. ...

PREVIEW - Paid Family Leave, Global Warming Highlight Action by ... (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/5/23/152948/562)
Politics NJ - Trenton,NJ,USA
The Senate Environment Committee, meanwhile, is set to review S-2114, otherwise known as the Global Warming Response Act, that would create a statewide ...

Dems In Congress: 'Green-Collar Jobs' Will Fight Poverty & Global ... (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.politicsnj.com/preview-paid-family-leave-global-warming-highlight-action-senate-panels-8739)
Huffington Post - New York,NY,USA
By addressing both issues simultaneously, these Congressional leaders may re-energize the anti-poverty movement - and transform the debate on global warming ...

Snowmobiler To Testify About Global Warming On Capitol Hill (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/van-jones/dems-in-congress-green_b_49159.html)
WNNE-TV - White River Junction,VT,USA
Bryant Watson will appear before the Senate's Environment Committee about the impact of global warming on Vermont's snowmobile industry. ...

House investigating Smithsonian global warming exhibit. (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.wptz.com/news/13376192/detail.html)
Think Progress - Washington,DC,USA
House Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming Chairman Ed Markey (D-MA) has sent the Smithsonian a letter notifying the institution that ...

Scientists Concerned About Effects Of Global Warming On Infectious ... (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/23/house-investigating-smithsonian-global-warming-exhibit/)
DentalPlans.com - Dania,FL,USA
For instance, says Morse, the effect of global warming on agriculture could lead to significant changes in disease transmission and distribution. ...

Is global warming causing hurricanes? (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.dentalplans.com/articles/18054/)
Independent Online - Cape Town,South Africa
The study touches on one of the big puzzles about climate change: Will global warming, by heating the seas that give hurricanes their power, also make these ...

[URL="http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=28187"]Interfaith Statement Urges US Leaders To Fight Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.iol.co.za/index.php%3Fset_id%3D1%26click_id%3D31%26art_id%3D nw20070523192706566C209409)
News10.net - Sacramento,CA,USA

foot_soldier

05-24-2007, 09:16 PM

One final submission, if I may, to add to my two most recent posts on this thread:

Atmospheric CO2 Concentrations--Mauna Loa Observatory, Hawaii, 1958-2002 (revised July 2003)

C. D. Keeling and T. P. Whorf

Since 1958, air samples have been continuously collected at Mauna Loa Observatory and analyzed by infrared spectroscopy for CO2 concentrations. Data are averaged to give monthly and annual atmospheric CO2 concentrations.

These data represent the longest continuous record of atmospheric CO2 concentrations in the world. This precise data record covers a single site (Mauna Loa Observatory, Hawaii). It is a reliable indicator of the regional trend in the concentration of atmospheric CO2 in the middle layers of the troposphere and is critical to CO2-related research.

http://cdiac.ornl.gov/ftp/ndp001/maunaloa.co2

Air Map New England
University of New Hampshire at Durham
http://airmap.unh.edu/data/data.html?site=AIRMAPTF

The UNH Observing Station at Thompson Farm is located in Durham, NH approximately two miles south of University of New Hampshire (43.11N, 70.95W, elevation 75ft). The site is characterized by rolling fields surrounded by mixed forest. Most of the air quality measurements are performed on air sampled from the top of a forty foot tower. One of NOAA's Climate Reference Network meteorological stations is also located at Thompson Farm.

Current CO2 reading at 11:00pm Eastern Daylight Time: 421 ppmv (parts per million volume)

Thank you.

Air Map New England
University of New Hampshire at Durham
http://airmap.unh.edu/data/data.html?site=AIRMAPTF

Current CO2 reading at 12:00am Eastern Daylight Time: 444 ppmv

Boomer Chick

05-25-2007, 10:02 AM

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Rell, Schwarzenegger team up on global warming (http://www.wiltonvillager.com/wilton_templates/wilton_story/311480080556700.php)
Wilton Villager - Wilton,CT,USA
M. Jodi Rell teamed up with California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Monday, accusing the federal government of not taking global warming seriously. ...
[/URL]
Congressional delegation to visit Europe, talk global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.wiltonvillager.com/wilton_templates/wilton_story/311480080556700.php)
Delmarva Daily Times - MD,USA
... Berlin, Brussels and London to see so-called green technologies and discuss strategies European nations are using to address global warming. ...

Global warming to cause floods in China (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.delmarvanow.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20070524/NEWS01/70524044/1002)
Radio Australia - Australia
Global warming and its effect on Tibet's glaciers are predicted to have a direct effect on the lives of people living along one of China's major river, ...

Letters: War, plus more about hate crimes and global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/news/stories/s1932721.htm)
Prior Lake American - Prior Lake,MN,USA
Not all of our students are convinced global warming is more than a current fad. Any opinion expressed, pro or con, must be backed up with scientific ...

GLOBAL WARMING - THE FINAL SOLUTION (Part 1) (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.plamerican.com/node/2124)
American Chronicle - Beverly Hills,CA,USA
The book "Global Warming - The Final Solution" was released in March 2007 and explores the possible causes behind the current climatic changes we are ...

Greenpeace recreates Noah´s Ark to highlight global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp%3FarticleID%3D27927)
CCTV - Beijing,China
They are racing to finish by May 31st, when a ceremony will be held to release doves and appeal to world leaders to counter global warming.

Winter Sports Seek Congressional Protection from Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.cctv.com/english/20070524/103848.shtml)
Business Media Institute - Alexandria,VA,USA
The Senate Environment & Public Works Committee discussed economic harm that witnesses claimed global warming could cause to winter tourism and recreation. ...

Global Warming Becomes Major US Campaign Issue (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2007/20070524172943.aspx)
Voice of America - USA
Analysts say in past campaigns candidates argued about whether global warming is actually occurring, but the results of recent scientific studies have now ...

Congress plans global warming hearing on top of Cannon Mountain (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-05-24-voa65.cfm)
Laconia Citizen - Laconia,NH,USA
FRANCONIA, NH (AP) _ Members of Congress will hold a summit on global warming atop the peak where the Old Man of the Mountain once gazed across the rugged ...

Stop global warming? Start with the Pentagon (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20070524/NEWS0201/70524059/-1/CITIZEN)
People's Weekly World - USA
Global warming is on the minds of people all over the planet. They are talking about how strange their weather is these days. ...
[URL="http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.pww.org/index.php/article/articleview/11137/1/373"]

Boomer Chick

05-25-2007, 10:23 AM

Oh and to get this thread back on topic, I think this is the most "normal" I've seen Colorados weather In many years.. Not sure how long you two have been here. I've seen more 3-4 oclock showers this spring then I've seen in the last 5 yrs..

Yes, I've noticed the same and we're so grateful for the precip. We've lived here a little over 30 years. I do remember those spring and summer showers. I used to grow outrageously healthy and large strawberries. I've never had good luck with pumpkins, but my zuccinis were always huge. DUH! When we moved out to the forest in '96 at a higher altitude, I had more problems growing veges and the tomatoes.....well forget about it. They wouldn't turn red. I think no matter what I put in the soil out here I forgot one thing.....base...like limestone....too acidic. So I resigned growing veges (lettuce was my favorite) and grew flowers. Now I'm at the point where my 8 by 8 needs some testing. I put bull manure and lots of peat in it, but still it's just not right, I can tell. It must be limestone I'm missing....too acidic.

I worry about hail, though. What we need to do is build a good sized greenhouse and quit talking about it.

Jay Reynolds is a fine, organic farmer. He grows so many veges that he gives them away to elder homes and sells them at stands. Now his place would be worth a visit for a classroom full of fifth graders!

;)

Boomer Chick

05-25-2007, 10:20 PM

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/04/global-dimming-and-climate-models/

Boomer Chick

05-26-2007, 11:43 AM

Google News Alert for: global warming

Mexico launches plan to combat global warming (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N25228669.htm)
Reuters AlertNet - London,England,UK
Mexico is one of the major developing nations that will take part in a global warming summit in Germany early in June. ...

Congressional delegation to visit Europe to talk about global warming (http://www.ktvz.com/Global/story.asp?S=6569919)
KTVZ - Bend,OR,USA
They will see so-called green technologies and discuss strategies European nations are using to address global warming. ...

US museum toned down global warming (http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/administration/afp-news.html?id=070525152014.z4ne7sk5&cat=null)
France24 - Paris,France
The Smithsonian museum institute in Washington toned-down and delayed an exhibit on global warming it feared would displease Congress and the White House, ...

US company's coal plant plans are in center of global warming debate (http://www.pr-inside.com/us-company-s-coal-plant-plans-are-r135522.htm)
PR-Inside.com (Pressemitteilung) - Wien,Austria
But environmentalists hope to slow or even stop the trend, seeing each project as a source of carbon dioxide that will worsen global warming. ...

Ski Industry Testifies at US Senate Committee Hearing on Global ... (http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2443)
First Tracks - Salt Lake City,UT,USA
Washington, DC - The US Senate Environment Committee on Thursday took a look at how global warming is already affecting outdoor recreation - including ...

Combating Climate Change: Farming Out Global Warming Solutions (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=C4B62D71-E7F2-99DF-3C3B53587E1B5AC2&chanID=sa007)
Scientific American - USA
Changes in forest management and agricultural practices could significantly reduce the threat of global warming much more quickly than can technological ...

Jessica Simpson a Global Warming Groupie: After Leonardo DiCaprio? (http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272613624.shtml)
National Ledger - Apache Junction,AZ,USA
She is currently dating (or not) "light green" global warming advocate John Mayer and now she reportedly perused Leonardo DiCaprio, who debuted his advocacy ...

Boomer Chick

05-26-2007, 04:22 PM

Thanks, FS, for your contributions!

Google News Alert for: global warming

City Mayors Under Gun on Global Warming (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/26/AR2007052600561.html)
Washington Post - Washington,DC,USA
NEW YORK -- Bold new initiatives against global warming have come out of major cities around the world over the past few weeks _ with the notable exception ...
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Coal plant plans put in center of global warming debate (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/26/AR2007052600561.html)
Akron Beacon Journal - Akron,OH,USA
Environmentalists hope to slow or even halt the trend, seeing each project as a source of carbon dioxide that will worsen global warming. ...

Global Warming Plan Stifled: US Rejects G8 Climate Change Proposals (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/business/17284759.htm)
National Ledger - Apache Junction,AZ,USA
By Jackson Simpson. The US has rejected any prospect of a deal on climate change at the G8 summit in Germany next month, according to a leaked document. ...

GLOBAL WARMING - THE FINAL SOLUTION (Part 2) (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272613646.shtml)
American Chronicle - Beverly Hills,CA,USA
The prospect of a global catastrophe didn't worry the average Russian in quite the same way it did their western counterparts, and like any other potential ...

My Turn: Global warming requires action now (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp%3FarticleID%3D28043)
BurlingtonFreePress.com - Burlington,VT,USA
Similarly, global warming requires action today, not just talk about the problem or talk about small steps that were taken years ago. ...

Pelosi heads to Europe for global warming talks (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20070526/OPINION/705260320/1006/NEWS05)
MSNBC - USA
"I want to keep the door completely open to working with the president on the issue of energy independence and global warming. ... There are plenty of areas ...

The Great Global Warming Swindle (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18884547/)
Petroleumworld.com - Caracas,Venezuela
Despite its flamboyant title, The Great Global Warming Swindle is based on sound science and interviews with real climate scientists, including me. ...

US objects to G8 global warming declaration: report (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.petroleumworld.com/SF07052701.htm)
PhysOrg.com - Evergreen,VA,USA
The United States has raised new serious objections to a proposed global warming declaration prepared by Germany for next month's Group of Eight summit, ...

26 - Filipino invention stops global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.physorg.com/news99382868.html)
Balita.org - Minsterley,UK
"It is my humble contribution to the world in containing global warming which is threatening man's existence," Celis said. ...

We can't ignore global warming or its causes (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://news.balita.ph/html/article.php/20070526111108758)
Blue Springs Examiner - Blue Springs / Independence,MO,USA
Brent Lasater (letters, May 17, "Global warming? Let's look at some facts") recently expressed doubt as to the concept of human-caused global warming that ...
[URL="http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.examiner.net/stories/052607/ope_052607039.shtml"]

kola

05-26-2007, 07:33 PM

yes..global warming is here...no doubt.

i wonder how much HARRP and chemtrails have accelerated the process.

kola

Boomer Chick

05-28-2007, 08:36 AM

Google News Alert for: global warming
Global Warming-Hurricane Link Spurs Controversy (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/27/191120.shtml?s=te)
NewsMax.com - West Palm Beach,FL,USA
Trenberth said the next logical question is, how have sea surface temperatures changed over the last 30 years or so, "and that's where the global warming ...
[/URL]
More on White House Censorship of Global Warming Science (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/5/27/191120.shtml%3Fs%3Dte)
Political Affairs Magazine - New York,NY,USA
Word of the White House censoring federal climate scientists on global warming began leaking out to the press early in George W. Bush's first term in office ...

Goddard Institute head says global warming serious issue (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/5338/1/260/)
Sioux City Journal - Sioux City,IA,USA
At the end, Denison native Dr. James Hansen said the Al Gore film that earned a 2007 Academy Award was accurate, that global warming is a "crisis" that ...

How to turn global warming into a tourist attraction (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2007/05/27/news/local/e3ad66fb7413489c862572e800106b68.txt)
Toronto Star - Toronto,Ontario,Canada
All of these visitors will, of course, help to accelerate the very global-warming process they have come to witness. But the residents of Ilulissat do not ...

Good news: Vermont bans idling by schoolbuses to slow global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.thestar.com/News/article/218021)
Hot Air - MD,USA
They believe the children are our future. They've taught them well, and now they're letting them lead the way:. Gov. Jim Douglas used six pens Friday to ...

US mayors face the music on global warming while Washington fiddles (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/27/good-news-vermont-bans-idling-by-schoolbuses-to-slow-global-warming/)
Canada.com - Hamilton,Ontario,Canada
NEW YORK (AP) - Bold new initiatives against global warming have come out of major cities around in the world over the past few weeks - with the notable ...

Herseth Sandlin On Global Warming Trip To Europe (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html%3Fid%3D2f84d7c1-b504-42d4-9b30-0cad3657e7b9%26k%3D27714)
KELOLAND TV - Sioux Falls,SD,USA
They'll discuss global warming with scientists and politicians in Greenland, Germany and Belgium. They will be talking about ways to reduce emissions of ...

India's Tanti capitalises on global warming concerns (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.keloland.com/News/NewsDetail6371.cfm%3FId%3D0,57399)
Financial Express.bd - Bangladesh
More than a decade on, he believes increasing concern about global warming means the wind energy business will only turn in yet more profits. ...

FACTBOX-Debate over global warming link to hurricanes (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.financialexpress-bd.com/index3.asp%3Fcnd%3D5/28/2007%26section_id%3D24%26newsid%3D62379%26spcl%3Dn o)
Reuters AlertNet - London,England,UK
May 27 (Reuters) - Many climate scientists believe there is a link between global warming and hurricane strength, but the debate is not settled. ...
[URL="http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N24371484.htm"]

kola

05-28-2007, 10:31 AM

DROUGHT INDUCEMENT
Clifford E Carnicom
Apr 02 2002
Edited Apr 07 2002

Recent analysis leads to the conclusion that the extensive and systematic aerosol operations that are being conducted without informed consent are aggravating, if not instigating, the elevated drought conditions that are now commonly being observed.

The current discussion centers upon the heat aspects of the atmosphere, which are currently under investigation. This paper will be presented in two sections: an initial general and conceptual statement of the problem and findings, to be followed by a more detailed presentation based upon certain fundamentals of physics, chemistry and mathematics.

In regard to the preliminary discussion, it is necessary to introduce the physical term known as the "specific heat" of a substance. Here is the definition of the specific heat:

The specific heat is the amount of heat required to flow into a substance to produce a one degree rise in temperature.

Comprehension of this definition is helpful to understand the basis of the discussion which follows. Tabulations of specific heats of the elements and various compounds are readily available within reference books. Even more importantly, it is necessary to recognize the practical application of this definition through the following additional statements:

A substance with a high specific heat requires more heat energy to raise its temperature a given amount than one with a low specific heat. Similarly, and conversely, and in particular related to the current discussion, a substance with a lower specific heat will raise higher in temperature with a given amount of heat than a substance with a higher specific heat. This importance of this latter fact will hopefully become apparent to the reader in due course.

The general and conceptual question that arises is this: Given that the air of the earth has a specific heat value, what would be the projected heat effect of introducing metallic particulate aerosols into that atmosphere? And specifically, what would be the projected effect of introducing particulate forms of aluminum, barium, magnesium, titanium and calcium? This itemized list of elemental contributions is of special interest because of both historical and recent investigations that confirm their unexpected presence in our atmosphere in direct association with the advent of the aircraft aerosol operations.

It can be stated that the introduction of the majority of these five elements will have the net effect of increasing the temperature of the atmosphere of this planet. This is a consequence of the specific heat values of the elements under primary consideration. This finding is potentially of the greatest consequence to both the life and welfare of this planet. It is reasonable to conclude that this finding may reveal a direction connection with, or impact upon, the rising prevalence of observed drought conditions. It is hoped that the citizens of this nation and the planet in general will organize to the level of confronting directly the ramifications of the aerosol operations which remain in progress, and to continue to force full disclosure and accountability.

Additional Notes:

Research in the near future will be focused upon the the continued quantitative assessment of physical impact upon the atmosphere and ecosphere. The results presented here are an entirely separate and distinct issue from the moisture absorption or collection properties of the aerosols, as are also commonly observed. Specific heat properties of substances are intrinsic to the nature of the elements themselves. Corrections or modifications to this page will be made as is appropriate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Expanded discussion:

The specific heat of a substance (c) is defined as c = dQ/(dT*m), where Q is the amount of heat entering a mass (m) of substance, and the consequent rise in temperature is dT. The SI units of specific heat are kJ / (kg * K) where J refers to joules, kg is kilograms, and K is degrees Kelvin.

The specific heat of air can be taken as 1.003kJ/(kg * K) with little variation amongst the considered pressures or temperatures. This means that approximately 1003 joules of energy are required to raise the temperature of 1 kilogram of air by one degree Kelvin (or Celsius). For the sake of comparison to more commonly encountered forms of energy and power, a watt is equal to one joule per second.

The above definition can also be manipulated into the form : dT = dQ / (m * c). From this expression, we can see that given a fixed amount of heat flow (dQ), a decreased value for the specific heat (c) will result in a greater rise in temperature (dT). This is especially relevant to the current topic, as the majority of the aerosols under consideration all have a specific heat value less than that of air.

Our interest in evaluating the effect of aerosol introduction upon subsequent increases or decreases in atmospheric temperature lead us to consider the specific heat of a mixture. That is, we must consider the effects of multiple ingredients within a substance, and their effect upon the heat transfer properties of that substance.

The specific heat of a mixture is given by:

cp = sum (mfi * cpi)

where mfi is the mass fraction of the ith component, or contribution to the total. This is defined as:

mfi = mi / m

where mi is the mass of the ith component, and m is the total mass of the mixture.

cpi is the specific heat of the ith component of the mixture, and cp is the specific heat of the mixture.

Let us first consider the specific heat of air alone, which is well established within the references, and which herein a value of 1.003 kJ/ (kg * K) has been assumed. In this presentation, the specific heat of air will be designated as c(a).

Now let us consider an added ingredient to this gas, or air. In particular, this will be an aerosol of a particular element. We will designate the mass of this introduced element as m(e) and the specific heat of this element as c(e). From the definition of the specific heat of a mixture given earlier, we may now write the specific heat of the air combined with the introduced aerosol as:

cp = (m(a) / (m(a) + m(e))) * c(a) + (m(e) / (m(a) + m(e))) * c(e)

What now becomes of interest to us is the ratio of cp to c(a), i.e, the ratio of the specific heat of the combined mixture (air + aerosol) to the specific heat of air itself (cp / c(a)). If this ratio is less than one, it means that the introduction of the aerosol (or element or compound) will cause a greater rise of temperature in the modified atmosphere for a given amount of heat (sunlight) into the system.

Let us now form this ratio:

cp / c(a) = ((m(a) / (m(a) + m(e))) * c(a) + (m(e) / (m(a) + m(e))) * c(e)) / c(a)

or

cp / c(a) = (m(a)*c(a) + m(e)*c(e)) / (c(a) * (m(a) + m(e)))

Now our interest lies under what conditions this ratio is less than one, as that will produce a net increase in temperature of the modified air for a given amount of heat. If the ratio were to manifest as greater than one, then the converse would be true. Let us examine the question of under what conditions the ratio becomes less than one:

(m(a) * c(a) + m(e) * c(e)) / (c(a) * (m(a) + m(e)) < 1

or

m(a) * c(a) + m(e) * c(e) < m(a) * c(a) + m(e) * c(a)

or

m(e) * c(e) < m(e) * c(a)

or

c(e) < c(a)

This result is important for the following reason. This result reveals to us that if we were to introduce an element into the atmosphere with a specific heat less than that of air, it would have the net effect of raising the temperature of the modified atmosphere for a given amount of heat (i.e., sun) input into the system (i.e., ecosphere).

Of course, the question that now arises is, what is the specific heat of the elements (as a minimum) that are under consideration? Here are the values for these as well as a few others for us to consider:

Element or Compound
Specific Heat
kJ / (kg * K)

Air 1.003
Water 4.184
Ice 2.1
Aluminum 0.92
Barium 0.19
Titanium 0.52
Magnesium 1.02
Calcium 0.65

With regard to the elements under examination, we can see that with exception to magnesium, each has a specific heat less than that of air. The current analysis leads us to conclude that the introduction of each of the elements with a specific heat less than that of air would have the effect of increasing the temperature of the modified air for a given amount of heat. We also see, on the contrary, that the introduction of water into the atmosphere, would have a beneficial effect upon heat reduction due to the large value of specific heat.

These results portend significant consequences and ramifications upon the health of this planet and its atmosphere. It is difficult to deny the projected and current influence upon drought conditions for the earth as long as the aerosol operations remain unchecked. It is reiterated that the citizens of this nation and earth have the duty to force full accountability, disclosure and cessation of the aircraft aerosol operations which remain in progress.

Authored at Angel Peak, New Mexico
Apr 02 2002

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following link to The National Drought Mitigation Center
based at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln
is provided as a result of research efforts
by a member of the message board
attached to www.carnicom.com

THE DROUGHT MONITOR

Appreciation is extended to this individual for the above contribution.

kola

05-28-2007, 10:32 AM

GLOBAL WARMING & AEROSOLS
Clifford E Carnicom
Jan 23 2004

It can be demonstrated that the introduction of essentially any metallic or metallic salt aerosol into the lower atmosphere will have the effect of heating up that lower atmosphere. The impact is both significant and measurable. Those that seek and express concern on the so called global warming problem might wish to begin their search with an inquiry into the thermodynamics of artificially introduced metallic aerosols into the lower atmosphere. The direct injection of massive amounts of particulate matter by aircraft into the atmosphere for more than five years establishes the foundation for this inquiry. An examination of the specific heat characteristics of an altered atmosphere will provide the path for the realistic conclusions that can be made.

Any claim that the aerosol operations represent a mitigating influence on the global warming problem appears to be a complete facade that is in direct contradiction to the fundamental principles of physics and thermodynamics. The lack of candor and honesty by government, media and environmental protection agencies in response to public inquiry is further evidence of the fictitious fronts that have been proposed. It is past time to recognize that one of the primary effects of the dense aerosols that now permanently mar the lifeblood of this planet is the heating up of the very atmosphere that we breathe.

The early stage of the current argument for global heating and the aggravation of drought conditions was proposed approximately two years ago1. The benefit of the current study is that an estimate of the magnitude of the heat influence upon the atmosphere can now be made. Those that continue to claim that a benevolent, but necessarily secret, enterprise to protect the planet with a blanket of purportedly heat reflective aerosols in the lower atmosphere exists will need to provide the primary evidence of that claim. That claim will need to be justified with solid physical principles and observation. Hypothetical research models that are under discussion and rationalization, such as the Teller proposal, are more appropriate to the outer reaches of the planet and space. These proposals do not explain the deposition of massive amounts of hygroscopic aerosols into the lower atmosphere.

The recent media attention to the dramatic and accelerating climatic changes will hopefully be extended to the fundamental principles that are expressed within this report.

The mathematics, physical principles and thermodynamics of this argument will be made available on a separate entry.

FURTHER DISCUSSION:

1. Clifford E Carnicom, Drought Inducement, (http://www.carnicom.com/drought1.htm), 04/07/02

Boomer Chick

05-28-2007, 01:58 PM

Scott Stevens:

Less than eight years ago the United States took the lead and instituted a brilliant and bold project borne out of desperation: creating a thermal, anti-radiation barrier in a band of our atmosphere beneath Earth's troposphere. Although the project itself may cause some planetary climate change, it is calculated to cause far less damage than the events that have been extrapolated to occur in our near future. It is a two-edged sword as the aerosol spraying will undeniably affect some individuals making them sick or otherwise affecting to an extent their immune systems and respiratory systems. The trade off, however, is long term survival of our civilization.

Read the whole letter. I do take issue with some minor details, but on the whole the assertions remain sound. That the Sun is being stimulated by an outside civilization and we are trying to slow those climate altering effects on the Earth with this spraying.

I suppose that it is possible, and this is very disturbing, that there is a set timetable (sometime before 2012) to tip the entire climate system into chaos prior to the next ice age; this spraying and its attendant warming will insure that the ocean and atmospheric warming will continue at its increasingly rapid rate that is just now being realized by climatologists. This ultimately ends in the failure of the North Atlantic thermo cline and a fresh global ice age. Now this event would end civilization, at least as we know it today. In either case this project deserves immediate public scrutiny

The letter and the supposed reason why the military is spraying:

http://www.holmestead.ca/chemtrails/solar.html

I would, as an exercise of the mind in trying to find the truth, combine this theory with the projects I posted above and see if there's a connection. Since I have read Richard T Hoagland and some other sites and know that NASA can keep information hidden, I do wonder about the extra-solar energy concept. I have read in more than one place that our solar system is entering a section of space more inline with the equatorial plane of the Milky Way Galaxy. We have no idea as an intelligent species what this means and how that will affect us. None at all. We see the glaciers melting, the ice caps melting, and we know the planet is heating up. We know other planets in our system are heating up. But WHY is the bonus question of our time. Are we sacrificing more warming of our atmosphere for some protection from an increased amount of radiation? I just don't know. I'm open to other theories and this one and wish I could put my finger definitively on one theory.

Boomer Chick

05-28-2007, 02:46 PM

Another NASA affiliated air vehicle association:

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/research/AirSci/index.html

X-48B Blended Wing Body

Boeing Phantom Works has partnered with NASA and the Air Force Research Laboratory to study the structural, aerodynamic and operational advantages of the Blended-Wing Body advanced aircraft concept, a cross between a conventional plane and a flying wing design. The Air Force has designated the prototype the X-48B based on its interest in the design's potential as a multi-role, long-range, high-capacity military transport aircraft.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/research/index.html

Cool beans, heh?

Boomer Chick

05-28-2007, 10:57 PM

Google News Alert for: global warming
Carbon offsets challenged as fix for global warming (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.trees28may28,0,287696.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines)
Baltimore Sun - Baltimore,MD,USA
People worried about global warming increasingly are trying to offset the carbon dioxide - the leading greenhouse gas - they spew into the atmosphere when ...
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Portland teens make a musical global warming plea (http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/environment/archives/115923.asp)
Seattle Post Intelligencer - Seattle,WA,USA
Leaders here are continuing to fight language being proposed for a global-warming declaration to be presented at next month's Group of Eight summit.
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/environment/archives/115923.asp)
Goddard Institute Issues a Warning on Global Warming (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=28216)
American Chronicle - Beverly Hills,CA,USA
Sometimes the fact of global warming gets a short shrift due to the more politically-charged discussion on whether it is caused naturally by, for example, ...
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Call for UK global warming funding (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6666957,00.html)
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Britain must provide developing countries an extra £1.2 billion to deal with the effects of its contribution to global warming, a leading aid charity has ...
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GLOBAL WARMING - THE FINAL SOLUTION (Part 3) (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=28143)
American Chronicle - Beverly Hills,CA,USA
Welcome to the third installment of extracts from the book "Global Warming - The Final Solution". If you haven't read the first two parts, you will find ...
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Global Warming Causing More Lawsuits? (http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_21283279.shtml)
Post Chronicle - USA
Global warming concern is causing United States corporations and law practices to take on more litigation, according to a new book. ...
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Pelosi Leads Delegation on Global Warming (http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=28375)
News10.net - Sacramento,CA,USA
The trip comes amid growing international debate over global warming. Nations that signed on to the Kyoto Protocol are trying to figure out what should ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx%3Fstoryid%3D28375)

***

My other two posts should have gone on the "...studies..." thread. Sorry about that.

If some of you feel that you don't appreciate the global climate change news thread in which I post news of "global warming" then post something else interesting. This whining about other posters not doing this and not doing that.............what a waste of time and your assuming somehow you are superior is quite off the mark. Learn humility and understanding and maybe you'll receive a surge of energy. Negativity in any form will drain you. I don't find any of you other posters the least bit disturbing to me. You do your think and I'll do mine unless you post something amazingly informative and then I'm all over the post !

Halva, I've asked you WHY they are creating persistent contrails that turn into cirrus. Why? You have not answered. Scott Stevens says it's because 1) they're attempting to locate directions of wave interferance and ionic disturbances from other countries with weather controlling devices and 2) our nation has spearheaded a program to protect people and plants from solar and extra-solar radiations and energies. Hmmmm. Now which is it? Or is it both? Or is it none? Anyone have another theory on WHY? And please don't go into the "Illuminati is culling the population" theory....just won't make sense. Maybe ultimately they want to control the weather, like the Air Force document said...? And maybe they're attempting to learn how to create clouds and disperse them. I would imagine multiple projects for multiple goals are being implemented. They seem to be agreeing in Europe to creating persistent trails, too. According to Stevens, if we all knew the truth about a sun out of control, we would freak. I doubt it, though.

Any contributions? I'm sure the persistent contrails would both heat and cool the atmosphere. The reflective ability of the cirrus to reflect solar radiation is strong, but the heat retention at night is also strong. The articles I posted in the studies section show the differences and the net outcome for increased cirrus from persistent contrails.

halva

05-28-2007, 11:16 PM

Halva, I've asked you WHY they are creating persistent contrails that turn into cirrus. Why? You have not answered. Scott Stevens says it's because 1) they're attempting to locate directions of wave interferance and ionic disturbances from other countries with weather controlling devices and 2) our nation has spearheaded a program to protect people and plants from solar and extra-solar radiations and energies. Hmmmm. Now which is it? Or is it both? Or is it none? Anyone have another theory on WHY? And please don't go into the "Illuminati is culling the population" theory....just won't make sense. Maybe ultimately they want to control the weather, like the Air Force document said...? And maybe they're attempting to learn how to create clouds and disperse them. I would imagine multiple projects for multiple goals are being implemented. They seem to be agreeing in Europe to creating persistent trails, too. According to Stevens, if we all knew the truth about a sun out of control, we would freak. I doubt it, though.

I am not going to co-operate with you in your attempt to appoint yourself mistress of ceremonies at this section of the forum, BC. I am not going to participate in the quiz shows that you are attempting to organize or be diverted from my own priorities. Lou has indicated a similar attitude to what you are attempting to do, as has Kola and our dear friend Jeff Reynolds.

Just stop it. Conform to the type of discussion we want here or go away.

.

dewey189

05-29-2007, 04:20 AM

Lou has indicated a similar attitude to what you are attempting to do, as has Kola and our dear friend Jeff Reynolds.Just stop it. Conform to the type of discussion we want here or go away.LOL! It seems that Boomer, Jeff, kola and I share somewhat similar views, halva, and it seems to me that it's you who can't (or won't) stick with the conversation.

halva

05-29-2007, 05:10 AM

I challenge you to get Jeff Reynolds and kola to agree with you in ANYTHING you say with, or about, BC.

dewey189

05-29-2007, 05:31 AM

I challenge you to get Jeff Reynolds and kola to agree with you in ANYTHING you say with, or about, BC.You know what, halva, you can keep going on and on with your middle school gossiping, but I'm not interested in it. Boomer is a nice woman, she's intelligent, her opinions are well researched and I have a lot of respect for her. If Jeff and kola don't agree with that because she isn't totally on the same page as them regarding chemtrails, it would be a sign of immaturity. But I suspect you're wrong.

halva

05-29-2007, 08:50 AM

You took me up on Kola and Jeff Reynolds. Try to find out if the situation is as you believe. If this is something important.

Boomer Chick

05-29-2007, 04:55 PM

Google News Alert for: global warming
Merkel to press Bush on global warming (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/29/news/environ.php)
International Herald Tribune - France
Pelosi, who has spent two days meeting with German officials, thanked Merkel for "leadership" in trying to curb global warming. ...
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KNX1070 - CA,USA
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US responsible for 44% of global warming bill-Oxfam (http://news.mongabay.com/2007/0529-gw.html)
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The USis responsible for 44% of the annual $50 billion needed to fight global warming said aid agency Oxfam as expectations mount that the United States ...
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NYTimes on Global Warming and Hurricanes (http://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry/2007/05/nytimes_on_global_warming_and.php)
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Matthew Nisbet at Framing Science makes a good point that one of the issues in covering a controversial scientific issue like hurricanes and global warming ...
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Schwalbach leads global warming presentations (http://www.saipantribune.com/newsstory.aspx?cat=1&newsID=68956)
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Former CNMI government official Robert Schwalbach is back on the island for a series of presentations on global warming. ...
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Global Warming: Witnesses for the Skeptical Perspective (http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm?aid=500)
Energy Tribune - Houston,TX,USA
Yet over the past decade, those skeptical of global warming have been attacked with increasing frequency, shrillness, and ugliness. ...
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Does global warming mean more hurricanes? (http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070529/WIRE/705290315/-1/news)
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When people worry about the effects of global warming, they worry more about hurricanes than anything else. In surveys, almost three-quarters of Americans ...
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Global warming - Europe blames Asia (http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/224)
Newstrack India - Delhi,India
May 29: On the turf of Hamburg Germany, the Asian and European nations found themselves on opposite sides over the serious issue of global warming during ...
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halva

05-30-2007, 03:35 AM

LOL! It seems that Boomer, Jeff, kola and I share somewhat similar views, halva.

Do you still think that is the way things are Dewey?

If you have made a mistaken assessment, what led you to misjudge the situation here?

Boomer Chick

05-30-2007, 06:19 AM

Transition Period for New Jersey Solar Program (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48686)
by Stephen Lacey, Staff Writer
After eighteen months of project delays, job cuts and angst about the future for many businesses in the New Jersey solar industry, the state's solar program has started moving again as more funds were released for projects waiting in a queue at the Board of Public Utilities (BPU). However, there is still some question about where the program will go next and how upcoming changes to the market structure will impact the industry.
Picture Perfect Parabolic Solar Collector Systems (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48660)
A mirror alignment measurement device, invented by Rich Diver, a researcher at Sandia National Laboratories, may soon make one of the most popular solar collector systems, parabolic troughs, more affordable and energy efficient.
Concentrating Solar Power FOA from the U.S. DOE (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48694)
On May 24, 2007, the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE) Solar Energy Technologies Program released a Funding Opportunity Announcement (FOA) for companies to develop storage solutions, manufacturing approaches, and new system concepts for large-scale concentrating solar power (CSP) plants.
Gov. Schwarzenegger Applauds Senate Passage of Bill to Fix Solar Program (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48674)
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger yesterday applauded the Senate's passage of AB 1714 that will fix an unintended flaw in legislation passed last year to complete his Million Solar Roofs plan. AB 1714 must still pass the Assembly before going to the Governor for final approval.
GE Unit Expands Wind Energy Portfolio with Texas Investment (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48693)
GE Energy Financial Services has agreed to invest in the 241-megawatt (MW) Sweetwater 4 facility, along with a sister project in Texas. The project helps Texas, which leads all U.S. states in installed wind power capacity, meet its target of generating 5,880 MW of its power from renewable sources by 2015.
Dynamotive Announces BioOil Production at Guelph Plant (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48673)
Dynamotive Energy Systems Corporation has completed the initial production run of BioOil in its new generation plant in Guelph, Ontario, Canada. Intermediate grade BioOil, which has higher calorific value than regular BioOil, was produced.
Environmental Power Corporation Signs Agreements for Renewable Energy (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48713)
Environmental Power Corporation announced the execution of two project option agreements by Microgy, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Environmental Power Corporation, to build, own and operate Renewable Natural Gas (RNG) production facilities with dairies in Colorado and Idaho.
Sharp Solar Energy Systems Installed on New Homes in Florida (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48692)
Designed to augment the power supplied to each home from the grid, 89 single-family and estate homes in a new community north of Naples, Florida, will receive solar energy systems from Sharp.
ENRC Receives Show of Support for National RPS (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48712)
On May 25, Honorable Jeff Bingaman, Chairman of the Energy & Natural Resources Committee (ENRC), welcomed a letter from a diverse group of more than 175 supporters who are urging Congress to pass a national renewable portfolio standard (RPS) this year. Bingaman plans to offer an RPS amendment when the Senate takes up energy legislation in June.
EDF EN Launches Construction of Its First Offshore Wind Farm (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48672)
In collaboration with its C-Power partners, EDF Energies Nouvelles (EDF EN) is launching the first phase of construction of a 300-megawatt (MW) offshore wind farm, the first to be built in Belgian waters.
Hydrogen Breakthrough Could Open the Road to Carbon-Free Cars (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48691)
A team of UK scientists from the Universities of Birmingham and Oxford and the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in Oxfordshire have developed a compound of the element lithium, which may make it practical to store enough hydrogen onboard fuel-cell-powered cars to enable them to drive more than 300 miles before refueling.
FERC Relicenses Three Hydroelectric Dams in New Hampshire (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48690)
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Illinois Public and Private Partners Take a Stand for Clean Energy (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48711)
Midwest Energy Efficiency Alliance (MEEA) announced that Illinois public and private sector partners plan to support a clean energy policy, which includes a strong commitment to energy efficiency and renewable energy in Illinois.
SMA Receives Large Order for 36 MW Solar Power Plant (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48670)
SMA Technologie AG has accepted the largest single order it has ever received for central inverters. Between April 2007 and August 2008, the company plans to deliver 42 Sunny Centrals, each with a capacity of 500 kilowatts (kW), to juwi solar GmbH, which is managing the installation. Delivery of another 20 units is scheduled for 2009.
REpower Systems AG: AREVA and Suzlon Further Wind Energy (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48698)

Boomer Chick

05-31-2007, 04:27 PM

Google News Alert for: global warming

Climatologist to discuss global warming (http://www.shakopeenews.com/node/2480)
Shakopee Valley News - Shakopee,MN,USA
The presentation is entittled "Searching For Climate Change: A More Temperate Take on Global Warming." Prof. John R. Christy -- one of a handful of ...
[/URL]
NASA Administrator Michael Griffin Not Sure That Global Warming Is ... (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.shakopeenews.com/node/2480)
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State group has horrific global warming scenario (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html%3Fpid%3D22729)
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TRENTON - New Jersey's beaches could recede, flooding across the state could run rampant and water supplies could be contaminated if global warming is left ...

What I'm Doing to Stop Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20070530/NEWS01/70530026/1004/LIVING)
The Conservative Voice - Kernersville,NC,USA
If carbon dioxide emissions are the problem, persuading global warming fanatics to immediately stop exhaling may be the solution. ...

California, Ontario join forces on stem cell, global warming efforts (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/25519.html)
Raw Story - Cambridge,MA,USA
In a speech to the Economic Club of Toronto, the former action hero said: "Despite the disagreements we have with other countries about global warming, ...

Global Warming Resolution Gains Surprising Support From Exxon ... (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://rawstory.com/news/afp/California_Ontario_join_forces_on_s_05302007.html)
Earthtimes.org - USA
Among the institutional shareholders voting for the global warming resolution was Stanford University, which is under fire for taking strings- attached ...

Himalayas show 'significant sign of global warming' (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,113973.shtml)
The Age - Melbourne,Victoria,Australia
These Greenpeace-issued photographs show Mount Everest in 1968 (top) and this year (above), which the environmental group argues show how global warming has ...

Brown Calls Upon US EPA to Resist Global Warming Stall Tactic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/himalayas-show-significant-sign-of-global-warming/2007/05/30/1180205338523.html)
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Calling global warming a profound threat to our nation's long-term security, Attorney General Edmund G. Brown Jr. urged the US Environmental Protection ...

Bush facing pressure on global warming at G8 summit (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_58014.shtml)
Reuters AlertNet - London,England,UK
The sticking point is Bush's longstanding opposition to measurable goals for reducing emissions of the greenhouse gases that spur global warming. ...

Global Warming: Who's To Blame? (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N30458430.htm)
CounterCurrents.org - Mahrashtra,India
Nicole Colson looks at the facts about the devastating consequences of global warming--and explains why a system that puts profits before all else is to ...
[URL="http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.countercurrents.org/colson300507.htm"]

Boomer Chick

06-03-2007, 12:00 PM

Google News Alert for: global warming

NASA chief's comments on global warming rise scientists' ire (http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2007/jun/02/nasa-chiefs-comments-global-warming-rise-scientist/)
Albuquerque Tribune - Albuquerque,NM,USA
WASHINGTON -- The head of NASA said he was not sure global warming was a problem and added that it would be "arrogant" to assume the world's climate should ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2007/jun/02/nasa-chiefs-comments-global-warming-rise-scientist/)
[/URL]
Arkansas Ranks 32nd in Global Warming Pollution (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2007/jun/02/nasa-chiefs-comments-global-warming-rise-scientist/)
KAIT - Jonesboro,AR,USA
LITTLE ROCK- Compared to 31 states, Arkansas ranks better in terms of pollution that contributes to global warming. Arkansas comes in at 32 among the 50 ...
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Global warming: No joke (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.kait8.com/Global/story.asp%3FS%3D6602472%26nav%3D0jsh)
Chicago Tribune - Chicago,IL,USA
Charles Kupchan, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, noted Thompson's comment on global warming at a forum this week: "That's kind of where ...
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A look at New Jersey's contribution to global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2007/06/global_warming_.html)
Newsday - Long Island,NY,USA
A look at New Jersey's greenhouse gas emissions and contribution to global warming. Carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas produced by the burning of fossil fuels ...
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Global warming could bring more rains (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newjersey/ny-bc-nj--globalwarming-nj-0602jun02,0,1042903.story%3Fcoll%3Dny-region-apnewjersey)
SouthCoastToday.com - New Bedford,MA,USA
Their study is not precise enough to forecast how increasing global warming will affect rainfall in specific regions such as California, Wentz said. ...
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Democrats berate president's global warming plan (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20070602/NEWS/706020367)
WKBT - La Crosse,WI,USA
WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrats say President Bush's newest strategy to combat global warming is "shifting from denial to delay." ...
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Pelosi Accuses Bush of Being in Denial About Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://wkbt.com/Global/story.asp%3FS%3D6602239)
KCBS - CA,USA
Pelosi criticized the plan for not calling for mandatory limits on the pollutants that cause global warming. The administration has long opposed mandatory ...
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Global warming fund for developing nations (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.kcbs.com/content_page.php%3FcontentType%3D4%26contentId%3D5 68681)
The Brunei Times - Bandar,Brunei,Brunei Darussalam
JAPAN is considering setting up a new fund to provide financial support to developing and emerging countries to tackle global warming in the hope of ...
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[URL="http://www.bayoubuzz.com/News/World/Politics/President_Bush_G-8_Does_Global_Warming_Talk__3885.asp"]President Bush, G-8 Does Global Warming Talk (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.bruneitimes.com.bn/details.php%3Fshape_ID%3D32108)
Bayou Buzz - Metairie,LA,USA
G-8 and Global Warming; President Bush discusses it on his Saturday radio address; President Bush proposes a summit on global warming to take place right ...
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dewey189

06-03-2007, 01:20 PM

Boomer Chick

06-04-2007, 12:29 PM

I've been pondering what new business to start once I finish my dissertation...leaning heavily toward a "green" line of work that goes above and beyond what we do as environmental consultants. It's hard to sort the wheat from the chaff, but if anyone has any grand ideas, please share them.

You're tired of what you've been doing and have thought of ways to 'retool' the biz to fit a new paradigm?

Well, I don't know much and I'm flattered you asked, but here goes:

I see great potential in solar and wind residential and small business systems applications and installation. I don't remember in what area your PhD concentrates, but all I can offer is a related technology-alternative energy kind of business. You could sell retail, design, and install solar hot water, solar energy, and wind turbine energy systems. If you have a source of interested labor and talent, the beginning to the end kind of business sounds good. To sell solar systems I do think you need to contact your state solar affiliation and take a few online courses from them as would your installers to get a license to prove to them and others that you know what' you're doing.

Well, that is all I have. I'm sure you have a much more expanded list of options and possibilities than I can offer.

What a fun time! I wish my hub could think with such a positive, creative attitude as yourself in terms of a new business. He has about one and a half years to go on his lease and he's considering another kind of business. I've tried brainstorming with him and he's such a negative thinker, you wouldn't believe it. I give up!

I gotta go! Hope you had a nice day!

BC

kola

06-04-2007, 12:33 PM

Lou

06-04-2007, 02:17 PM

the solar sales market is flooded and due to the outrageous prices many common folk can't afford it.

real estate, especially rural and mountain property is in demand. Realty agents are making a killing.

Kola Trump

I agree Kola and I can tell you that here in the north east it's a buyers market right now because those that have had there property on the market for the past few years just have not been able to get there asking prices and have had to drop there prices or see the property just set there.

Friends of ours have been trying to sell there property, a historic New England farm house that is in pretty good shape considering that it was built in 1801, they started out two and a half years ago with an asking price based on assessed market value of $ 339.000.00, since that time they have changed realtors twice, dropped there asking price to rock bottom and now have resorted to "Short selling" the property and the bank which holds there present mortgage has agreed to them doing that because neither party want's to own the property.

They really do not want to "Short sell" the property but it is a high cost property to maintain through the winter, to heat it alone cost over $1600.00 and our friends do not want to keep putting out the money demands of a property that they can not sell even at a drastically reduced price.

What's really bad about the "Short sell" agreement through a broker is that they may end up selling the property for less than they still owe on it but they really see no other option given that they do not want to spend another winter living there and have the option on other property down in Virginia.

This is an extreme example based on the sellers needs of what is going on real-estate wise here in the north east but the selling market here is at an all time low and still, people can not sell there properties.

Some areas are doing a little better than others, along the seacoast, sales seem steady but not climbing, some inland mountain areas that attract tourism are maintaining a fairly balanced market but it's still a tough market for the sellers and it does not appear that is going to change in the near future, unfortunate again for the sellers.

I keep hearing Bush say that the National economy is doing great but I sure do not see that translated to the local level, what I do see locally is a very guarded local economy in which I see people who are thinking of buying or selling property thinking twice long and hard because they fear that the economy is still slipping downward.

Right here in Parsonsfield, Maine, real estate sales have flat lined, it's really dead here, a local building contractor just down the road from us filed for bankruptcy at the end of May because he is over extended with several banks and can not sell his spec houses, he has gone under because of this great economy that Bush keeps telling us about. ( Man, that guy is so full of crap. )

It's a tough time right now for anyone thinking of starting any kind of a new business, especially if they do not have a lot of working capital to start out with, even if they do, most people are acting very hesitant about investing in any speculative business, young people are finding it an especially tough time getting anything off the ground because the banks are just not willing to give them the start up loans that they need, again, the banks reluctance to allow the start up loans is a direct reflection of an economy that is "Not" as Bush & CO. claims, DOING GREAT. ( Those people need a dose of the reality that we the common people have to live with each and every day.)

I really would not know what to advise someone who is looking for a new business to start up in the "green area" right now. Green - Green houses are coming into there own, power assisted by solar and wind where applicable but a sales and service dealership for this type of business is very high end and requires a large dollar investment not unlike a car dealership which may take up to five years or more to see any kind of a return on, but, if your in it for the long haul it could be something worth exploring.

kola

06-04-2007, 02:37 PM

Boomer Chick

06-04-2007, 03:12 PM

I don't know what state kola inhabits, but here in Colorado and I imagine similarly in Indiana, the retrofitting of alternative energies hasn't begun to get moving. In no way shape or form is our market saturated. And why is that? The cost effectiveness and lack of tax and government incentives still do not motivate the ordinary middle class and upper class homeowner.

Those in Colorado who are especially energy conscious and can afford the price tag of even a hot water system, have already done so, but it is a very tiny percent of the housing market. Only one builder in our area has begun to consider "green materials" and solar passive and active designs....just one...and we have loads of builders. Why, because our area is growing. Even if you only considered the homes ten years and older, you would find the market for such retrofits not even begun to be tapped -- here.

I couldn't defend your area for you in terms of marketability of alternative residential and small business applications of solar, but I do know this:

1. solar has come down in price like you wouldn't believe

2. name brand companies have begun production of panels (like Sharp)

3. new solar products and kind PV cells, cheaper and more powerful have begun to be manufactured......it's going to not only be cost effective, it's going to absolutely take over the natural gas and electric market in time

4. California, with its million-roof solar legislation is leading the way for the opening of alternative energies in residential areas

5. for builders, there are already incentives in place put into law by the recent energy bills, but still, the home owner has not been given tax deductions or tax incentives for retrofitting. Jimmy Carter offered such goodies back before Reagan came into office and you'll notice that some houses are still outfitted for solar hot water from that era, but you know that went the way of the wringer washer.

6. starting off as mainly a service business without having to invest in products will save you start up fees and costs. You, as a business, can order the products online or through catalogues at a wholesale rate and then install as they come in.....no need for a huge warehouse, but a good sized garage for panels would be a good idea and a truck large enough to deliver such. As the panels are now constructed they come in smaller sizes that fit together. I don't know about the windmills for residences, but for farms and such I think the propellars are assembled upon the center rotor on sight and the poles might be in sections, too.

7. lastly....just do a market research on the business in your area and decide if it looks good.Ask others in the community and call around. I'm telling you, if my hub would go for it, I would work with him on this business and teach piano, too. He has a "bad back" so as far as installing, he knows he can't do it, but my gosh, if you hired some college guys interested and studying solar....how great would that be?

Once the feds get the incentives nation wide more geared for consumers, you'll see this market absolutely thrive in places where home owners previously found it NOT cost effective.

An old farmhouse in Maine could certainly use some solar panels for hot water, for the hot water heater, and for running electric hot air systems and appliances and/or even hot water floor heating systems. The initial investment is coming down, but the cost of heating from the system is nearly nothing over time. In fact, many who have such systems here, sell the energy back to the energy company and are actually paid for the transaction.

Anyway, it's something to look into for your area and those who live in other states, don't know your area. Only you do.

Just adding to the input, here! ;)

dewey189

06-04-2007, 03:20 PM

You're tired of what you've been doing and have thought of ways to 'retool' the biz to fit a new paradigm? I'm thinking of expanding the services we offer, but I'm really antsy to try something totally new. I've been essentially doing the same kind of thing since 1981 and the challenge just isn't there anymore. It's just too easy. Ridiculous, isn't it?
I see great potential in solar and wind residential and small business systems applications and installation. I don't remember in what area your PhD concentrates, but all I can offer is a related technology-alternative energy kind of business. You could sell retail, design, and install solar hot water, solar energy, and wind turbine energy systems. If you have a source of interested labor and talent, the beginning to the end kind of business sounds good. To sell solar systems I do think you need to contact your state solar affiliation and take a few online courses from them as would your installers to get a license to prove to them and others that you know what' you're doing. My PhD will be in industrial technology, with an emphasis on building innovative capability in business, but it's been a labor of love, hobby, a mountain to climb, etc. rather than an employment-related thing. I know...who the hell does that! LOL! Anyway, we have an excellent pool of top-notch talent in this area, and I'm a helluva good business manager and idea gal, so between us, I'm fairly certain we'll succeed. I'm in the middle of the corn belt, but I'm not completely sold on eco-aspects of corn-related technologies, even though there's tons of start-up money available. There aren't any local companies in the solar field and my daughter (the biomedical engineering whiz) thinks that's where it's at, though she also thinks I should get off the board and get into the management of a biotech start-up I got involved with two years ago. I don't know. I have some research to do, but I REALLY should finish that PhD research first! In retrospect I should've combined the two! Duh.
What a fun time! I wish my hub could think with such a positive, creative attitude as yourself in terms of a new business. He has about one and a half years to go on his lease and he's considering another kind of business. I've tried brainstorming with him and he's such a negative thinker, you wouldn't believe it. I give up! My husband is showing that tendency, so I remind him that had he been involved when I started thinking about the first company back in '89 it never would've gotten off the ground! He's waaaay too conservative when it comes to risk for my taste, but we tend to balance each other out. He told me yesterday that he intended to sit back and watch, which is secret code for "just do it". LOL! He's going to take over the management of the first venture when I bail for the second. Or whatever it is I decide to do.Thanks for all the feedback Boomer! I'm leaning to the solar thing....

kola

06-04-2007, 03:21 PM

approx cost to go solar.. 30k

dewey189

06-04-2007, 03:23 PM

Once the feds get the incentives nation wide more geared for consumers, you'll see this market absolutely thrive in places where home owners previously found it NOT cost effective. That's what I'm thinking. Get in early....it's what I did the last time!
Just adding to the input, here! ;)It's greatly appreciated! From everyone!

kola

06-04-2007, 04:52 PM

oil corps want nothing of it...

kola

Lou

06-04-2007, 05:03 PM

Wow. thats amazing Lou! ..Quite different out this way. Here in Colorado land prices (especially) keep going up and up and people keep buying. It is the same scenario with most of Arizona, Montana, Oregon and Washington. Not only are the prices going up but the amount of acreage is dropping too. Realtors are licking their chops and there is no sign of prices coming down or people not buying. Out here we have seen a huge migration (beside the "Mexican Illegal Invasion") of Californians who sell their tiny Cali bungelows for big bucks then scoop up mountain property and homes out here.

I am quite content with my recent purchase of my 27 acres high up in the Rockies. (I bought for
3k per acre last year and was recently offered 5k per acre.) If I had more cash flow I would buy and sell raw land as things are still very hot here. btw I hope to semi-retire and move up there before winter kicks in.

How did you med tests go? ( pm me if you want to keep it private)
hope all is well,
Kola

Yes_this whole north east area is and has been slowly sliding downward for the past several years now, it has become painfully aware to the local real estate / new housing market and tourist related industries over the past two years as things have not improved but rather kept with the downward trend.

We are not officially in a "depression" but unofficially I would say that we are close to it on many local levels.

I have still heard nothing with regard to my CT scan, ( No pun intended ) I don't expect to hear anything soon, my GP is going on vacation and won't be back until July, I see the specialist after she gets the disc of my scan and the report but I still have to wait to make an appointment after she gets the information, seeing her before that will do nothing.

Really, I don't think there is any real problem, I'm feeling fine, no problems breathing, no pain, the anomaly that showed up in the X-Ray was just probably a soft tissue shadow, these doctors I think tend to over react due to my age. It's like if you have a pain in your chest, probably heartburn from eating that meatball sub, they automatically think that your having a heart attack. Dr. Youngblood right on the job don't you know.:rolleyes:

Right now I'm bored, setting here on my arse because it's raining now three days straight, can' t do a thing outside. ( And I really need to. )

Anyway, I doubt if my GP would have left for France this week if my CT showed anything serious, she would have at least called to let me know how much time I have left. :D

Thanks for asking Kola.

Boomer Chick

06-04-2007, 08:05 PM

That's what I'm thinking. Get in early....it's what I did the last time!It's greatly appreciated! From everyone!

I'm excited for you, Dews! I'd really like to go for it, here, myself, but I have no experience in running a business with employees and hubs doesn't want to take the risk. Yet, when you think of it and research the whole topic of alternative energies, it's about to blow sky high! You would be so smart to get in on the ground floor! OMG!

I get chills thinking about it. Not only can you help people, but you can certainly make money doing it. And with all your new-found wealth, you had better come out and visit Colorado! :D

halva

06-05-2007, 03:13 AM

This is Monbiot's latest
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=57&ItemID=12951

in the argument that we are billing at our Greek site as

"Global Warming: Two Faces of the Gatekeeper Left":
http://www.enouranois.gr/english/political/index55.htm

Alexander Cockburn and the Corruption of Science
by George Monbiot
May 31, 2007

I have now asked twice in public and four times in private. I have received three replies, each more vituperative and abusive than the last, but no answer to my question. It was not a complicated request. Alexander Cockburn maintained that the evidence that rising levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere do not result from burning fossil fuels was contained in "papers" written by a Dr Martin Hertzberg. Knowing that papers carry no scientific weight unless they are published in peer-reviewed journals, I asked for references. This request, apparently, makes me an egotist, a liar and the "honorary chairman of the King Canute Action Committee"(1). But that is the extent of the information Cockburn has been kind enough to divulge to me. Of references, there is not a word.

Or perhaps I have received an answer of a kind. In Cockburn's latest column for the Nation and Counterpunch, he suggests that the request for peer review is "heavily overworked" and has been corrupted by climate scientists(2). Unable to provide peer-reviewed papers to support his claims, he instead attacks peer review. In doing so, he draws on the support of two great authorities: Patrick Michaels and Frederick Seitz. Perhaps he does not know who these men are. He would have done well to have found out before calling them as witnesses for the defence.

A private letter sent last year by the Intermountain Rural Electric Association (IREA) - a big electricity provider - called for other companies to help prevent any restrictions on coal burning. "We decided to support Dr Patrick Michaels and his group (New Hope Environmental Services Inc.). Dr Michaels has been supported by electric cooperatives in the past and also receives financial support from other sources. ... In February of this year, IREA alone contributed $100,000 to Dr Michaels. In addition we have contacted all the G&Ts [generating and transmission companies] in the United States, and as of the writing of this letter we have obtained additional contributions and pledges for Dr Michaels group."(3)

In 1998, Michaels was invited to testify before the US Congress. He maintained that climate scientists had wildly exaggerated the likely impacts of global warming. He illustrated this with reference to a paper by the climatologist James Hansen in 1988. Hansen had presented three possible scenarios for temperature rises by 2000: high, medium and low. Both the high and low scenarios, he explained, were unlikely to materialise. The middle one was "the most plausible". As it happens, his middle scenario was almost exactly right. But Michaels took the graph from Hansen's paper, erased the medium and low scenarios and presented the high curve as Hansen's prediction for climate change. This, he claimed, proved that climate scientists were exaggerators(4).

Frederick Seitz was, until recently, the chairman of both the Science and Environmental Policy Project and the George C.Marshall Institute. Both of them have been funded by ExxonMobil. Both of them deny that manmade climate change is happening(5). In 1998, he wrote the document known as the "Oregon Petition", which maintained that the production of extra carbon dioxide was good for the planet(6).

He circulated it widely, reminding people that he was once president of the National Academy of Sciences, and attaching a "review" of the science of climate change. The "review" was published in the font and format of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, but it was in fact written by a Christian fundamentalist called Arthur B. Robinson, who has never worked as a climate scientist(7), his 22-year old son and two employees of Seitz's George C. Marshall Institute. Soon after the petition was published, the National Academy of Sciences released this statement:

"The Council of the National Academy of Sciences is concerned about the confusion caused by a petition being circulated via a letter from a former president of this Academy. ... The petition was mailed with an op-ed article from The Wall Street Journal and a manuscript in a format that is nearly identical to that of scientific articles published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The NAS Council would like to make it clear that this petition has nothing to do with the National Academy of Sciences and that the manuscript was not published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences or in any other peer-reviewed journal. The petition does not reflect the conclusions of expert reports of the Academy."(8)

This was not the first time that Seitz had traded on his former glory. In 1979, he became a permanent consultant to the tobacco company RJ Reynolds(9). He worked for the firm until at least 1987(10), for an annual fee of $65,000(11). He was in charge of deciding which medical research projects the company should fund(12), and handed out millions of dollars a year to American universities(13). The purpose of this funding, a memo from the chairman of RJ Reynolds shows, was to "refute the criticisms against cigarettes"(14).

So it is fair to say that both of them know plenty about the "corruption of the peer-review process", but not in the sense that Cockburn intends. Their attempt to suggest that the chair of the IPCC had altered its 1996 report against the wishes of the other contributers is a classic smear job, and plainly false. As anyone who has read the whole report knows, the conclusion was consistent with its contents and supported by the great majority of its contributers. The IPCC has reached a consensus that manmade climate change is taking place in every one of its assessments. Far from exaggerating the predictions of climate science, it faces constant pressure from governments to dilute its findings(15). Cockburn, like others who deny that manmade climate change is taking place, tells this story exactly the wrong way around.

But all this is a distraction - a wilful one on Cockburn's part - from the need to answer his critics. I asked him a simple question. I have not yet received an answer. Where are the references? Provide them sir, or admit that your claims are unfounded.

www.monbiot.com

halva

06-05-2007, 03:16 AM

Cockburn is playing Jeff Reynolds to Monbiot's BC.

dewey189

06-05-2007, 04:04 AM

Anyway, I doubt if my GP would have left for France this week if my CT showed anything serious, she would have at least called to let me know how much time I have left. Lou, don't count on that. My father had a CT scan on a Monday, and Wednesday both his GP and cardiologist left town without contacting him. Mom finally called the CT place on Friday afternoon to see if the results were available because his health was deterioriating. He was in such bad shape he had to be hospitalized for 5 days.

dewey189

06-05-2007, 04:10 AM

I'm excited for you, Dews! I'd really like to go for it, here, myself, but I have no experience in running a business with employees and hubs doesn't want to take the risk. Yet, when you think of it and research the whole topic of alternative energies, it's about to blow sky high! You would be so smart to get in on the ground floor! OMG! I know. I'm getting antsy to do it.
I get chills thinking about it. Not only can you help people, but you can certainly make money doing it. And with all your new-found wealth, you had better come out and visit Colorado! :DMy first venture was in the "help people" field which is why I'm leaning heavily toward keeping that as the fundamental philosophy of the second venture. Making money for the sake of making money has never had much appeal to me! We were supposed to go to Colorado for a family reunion in September, but since my uncle passed away in December and we had that impromptu reunion at his funeral over Memorial Day in Wisconsin, the plans faded away. I might get a big-time ski bug this winter though! One of my cousins lives in Niwot, CO.

Boomer Chick

06-05-2007, 09:40 AM

Yes, of course, setting one's sites on "serving others" unifies the company's human heart and creates an ethical foundation from which to operate in the world. And in one's attitude while working with people, the "service ethic" shines light and only produces respect in the community and within one's self....all good and excellent. The only way to go1 Of course we appreciate making a profit.

example of a larger scale solar company:

http://www.borregosolar.com/

Site offering information regarding the whole alternative energy scene:

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/home;jsessionid=A4F1ABFE718D3D566533191A5AEC78C8

I knew you were that good and kind sort of business person, Dewey189.

Niwot.....up in the mountains I think? Most major ski areas are only a 2 to 3 hour drive for us.
Fishing is great here, too.

HAGD!

Boomer Chick

06-05-2007, 10:56 AM

Cost of solar in 2005? Is it lower now?

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=24395

A project by Sharp company to educate the public about solar:

http://www.hellosunshineca.com/

Interesting new solar innovation for business applications:

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48660

May 23, 2007
PV Costs to Decrease 40% by 2010 (http://www.debatebothsides.com/rea/news/story?id=48624)

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=48624

The solar industry is poised for a rapid decline in costs that will make it a mainstream power option in the next few years, according to a new assessment by the Worldwatch Institute in Washington, D.C., and the Prometheus Institute in...

I thought so!!

BC :)

Boomer Chick

06-05-2007, 03:26 PM

Google News Alert for: global warming

US cutting back on global warming monitoring from space (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/05/america/climate.php)
International Herald Tribune - France
WASHINGTON: The United States is drastically scaling back efforts to measure global warming from space, even as President George W. Bush has said the ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/05/america/climate.php)
Great White North turning a little browner thanks to global ... (http://canadaeast.com/ce2/docroot/article.php?articleID=6340)
Canada East - Canada
"Ice and snow are important components of the Earth's climate system and are particularly sensitive to global warming," says the report, citing "substantial ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://canadaeast.com/ce2/docroot/article.php%3FarticleID%3D6340)
Global Warming Will Heat Up G-8 Summit (http://www.greenoptions.com/blog/2007/06/05/global_warming_will_heat_up_g_8_summit)
Green Options blog - Berkeley,CA,USA
Germany's proposal calls for limiting the global temperature rise this century to 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit (2 degrees Celsius) and cutting global warming ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.greenoptions.com/blog/2007/06/05/global_warming_will_heat_up_g_8_summit)
Bush on Global Warming -- An Aspirational Moment? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-pope/bush-on-global-warming-_b_50823.html)
Huffington Post - New York,NY,USA
Washington, DC -- Last week I watched, perplexed, as the Administration did an exotic new three step dance on global warming. First, they sent our allies in ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-pope/bush-on-global-warming-_b_50823.html)
Abe vows to take initiative on global warming at G-8 (http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=166310)
Financial Express - Bombay,India
"The European Union and the United States still remain divided" over their positions on global warming, Abe said ahead of his departure. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php%3Fcontent_id%3D166310)
China's answer to global warming (http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=8&theme=&usrsess=1&id=158402)
The Statesman - Kolkata,India
However, Beijing has no intention of sacrificing economic growth to satisfy international demands to combat global warming, the report warns. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php%3Fclid%3D8%26theme%3D%26usrsess%3D1% 26id%3D158402)
PM: Sufficiency to help fight global warming (http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/06Jun2007_news12.php)
Bangkok Post - Klong Toey,Bangkok,Thailand
Thailand will apply His Majesty the King's sufficiency economy principle in the fight against global warming, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont told a forum ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/06Jun2007_news12.php)
Congressional Global Warming Panel Visits Cannon Mountain (http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/bd7db3af1)
Caledonian Record - Caledonian,VT,USA
Edward J. Markey, D-Massachusetts, the summit was the kickoff of a series of hearings the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming will be ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/bd7db3af1)
My temper is rising. Must be global warming . . . (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/mick_hume/article1884272.ece?openComment=true)
Times Online - UK
Man-made global warming has become the new Act of God, to be blamed for everything people fear or loathe. The numberwatch website has an impressive list ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/mick_hume/article1884272.ece%3FopenComment%3Dtrue)
Draft energy bill would block state action on global warming (http://news.mainetoday.com/updates/012599.html)
MaineToday.com - Portland,ME,USA
... a committee member, said the bill would "pre-empt the rights of states to set strong standards to save energy and reduce global warming pollution." ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://news.mainetoday.com/updates/012599.html)

Boomer Chick

06-05-2007, 03:32 PM

associated press from top link above:

WASHINGTON: The United States is drastically scaling back efforts to measure global warming from space, even as President George W. Bush has said the country is ready to take the lead in reducing greenhouse gases.

A confidential report to the White House, obtained by The Associated Press, warns that U.S. scientists will soon lose much of their ability to monitor warming from space using a costly and problem-plagued satellite initiative begun more than a decade ago.
Because of technology problems and a near-doubling in the original $6.5 billion cost, the Defense Department has decided to launch only four satellites paired into two orbits, instead of six satellites in three orbits.

The satellites were intended to gather weather and climate data, replacing existing satellites that are expected to cease operating starting in the next couple of years.
The reduced system of four satellites will now focus on weather forecasting. Most of the climate instruments needed to collect more precise data over long periods are being eliminated.

Instead, the Pentagon and two partners - the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and NASA - will rely on European satellites for most of the climate data.
The recent loss of climate sensors "places the overall climate program in serious jeopardy," scientists from the two agencies told the White House in the Dec. 11 report.
They said they would face major gaps in data, which can be collected only from satellites, about ice caps and sheets, surface levels of seas and lakes, sizes of glaciers, surface radiation, water vapor, snow cover and atmospheric carbon dioxide.
Rick Piltz, director of Climate Science Watch, a watchdog program of the Washington-based Government Accountability Project, called the situation a crisis.
"We're going to start being blinded in our ability to observe the planet," said Piltz, whose group provided the report. "It's criminal negligence, and the leaders in the climate science community are ringing the alarm bells on this crisis."
Bush has repeatedly cited his administration's record on researching global warming as a response to criticism of his opposition to mandatory reductions in the greenhouse gases blamed for it. The administration has been spending about $5 billion a year on global warming: $2 billion on climate research and $3 billion on technologies for combating it.

:eek:

Depend on the Europeans for data??? OMG !!! :D

Boomer Chick

06-05-2007, 04:38 PM

Go to Original (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6713139.stm)
UN Warning Over Global Ice Loss
BBC News
Monday 04 June 2007

Hundreds of millions of livelihoods will be affected by declining snow and ice cover as a result of global warming, a UN report has warned.
The risks facing people included losing access to drinking water, and rising sea levels, the study concluded.
The findings were published by the UN's Environment Programme (Unep).
Unep chief Achim Steiner said the report showed that time was running out for political leaders to reach a global agreement on curbing emissions.
Mr Steiner made his call for action at the launch of the UN Global Outlook for Ice and Snow report, which was being held in Tromso, Norway.

"The report underlines that the fate of the world's snowy and icy places in a climatically challenged world should be cause for concern in every ministry, boardroom and living room across the world," he said.
"The missing link is universal political action. Today's report should empower the public to take their leaders to task [and] should empower them to ask how much hotter it has to get before we act."

"Feedback" Fears

The study warns of a range of threats that could destabilise ecosystems around the world, with potentially devastating consequences for hundreds of millions of people.
Melting glaciers in Asia's mountains could affect an estimated 40% of the world's population, who rely on ice melt for crop irrigation and drinking water.

It added that rising temperatures were already resulting in the thawing of permafrost in places such as Siberia. This was leading to the release into the atmosphere of methane, a potent greenhouse gas.
The fate of the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets, which hold almost all of the planet's freshwater ice, needed to be better understood, the UN publication urged.

It said that if emissions of greenhouse gases continued unabated, the massive ice sheets were likely to become unstable as the world continued to warm.

Without taking measures to mitigate sea level rise, an estimated 145 million people, primarily in Asia, would be exposed to the risk of flooding.
The UN said that the International Polar Year, a 24-month global scientific study of the polar regions, would help shed light on how climate change is altering the ice dynamics in these regions.

The authors also warned that less ice and snow cover was leading to more of the Sun's energy being absorbed by the land and the sea, rather than being reflected back into space.
They said this "positive feedback" could accelerate global warming and result in more abrupt shifts in the climate.

Norway's Environment Minister, Helen Bjoernoey, said the comprehensive study into the state of the world's snow and ice presented a bleak prognosis.
"To me, it is particularly alarming to realise climate change can be a reinforcing process - global warming results in further global warming," the minister observed.

"As documented in the report, melting of snow and ice will in itself have severe consequences on nature and society."
-------

One gigantic volcanic eruption will tilt the whole system 360 degrees! Or, a few big ones all at once!

CDsNuTz

06-05-2007, 07:22 PM

Niwot.....up in the mountains I think?

Niwot is half way between Boulder and Longmont...

Boomer Chick

06-05-2007, 09:03 PM

Niwot is half way between Boulder and Longmont...

Thanks, CDsNuTz! I knew it was up there somewhere, but not high up in the mountains, yet closer to Vail and Aspen than we are. We're closer to Breckenridge, Monarch, Copper Mountain, and all those resorts south of Aspen, right? One of my sons snowboards at Breckenridge and we used to take them when they were little to Monarch...loved it up there!

;)

Boomer Chick

06-09-2007, 11:07 AM

Google News Alert for: global warming
Religions join warming debate (http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/06/08/religions_join_warming_debate)
Boston Globe - Boston,MA,USA
WASHINGTON -- Some religious leaders agreed yesterday on the need to confront global warming, while others questioned the climate change threat. ...
[/URL]
Public Wants Action on Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/06/08/religions_join_warming_debate)
Center For American Progress - Washington,DC,USA
Throughout his administration, President Bush has shown little interest in taking serious action on the problem of global warming. At this week's G8 summit, ...

Calif. Attorney General Brown Challenges Presidential Candidates ... (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/06/opinion_warming.html)
YubaNet - Nevada City,CA,USA
"Global warming is the most important long-term environmental, economic and security issue facing our country and the world," Brown said. ...

Obama: You Can't Fight Global Warming with Coal (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_58669.shtml)
It's Getting Hot In Here - Washington,DC,USA
However, this transportation fuel made from coal would actually double the global warming pollution coming from our cars and planes! Who supports this? ...

KEAN: NEW JERSEY SHOULD REJECT WEAK GLOBAL WARMING BILL (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/06/08/obama-you-cant-fight-global-warming-with-coal/)
Politics NJ - Trenton,NJ,USA
Senator Kean is the Co-Prime sponsor of the "Global Warming Response Act," (S-2114), which would set caps on the emission of greenhouse gases in New Jersey. ...

Maine third Northeast state to pass "RGGI" law to cut global ... (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.politicsnj.com/kean-new-jersey-should-reject-weak-global-warming-bill-9243)
Forest NewsWatch.com (subscription) - Montreal,QC,Canada
Today's vote makes Maine the third northeast state to pass a law that requires power plants to reduce their emissions of global warming pollutants as part ...

Global warming issue heats up G8 meeting (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.forestnewswatch.com/content/view/2918/)
Party for Socialism and Liberation - USA
June 8, the final day of the summit, has been declared by environmentalists to be an international day of action against global warming. ...

Global warming workshops this weekend (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2%3FJServSessionIdr010%3Dh5z9b8o4n2.app5b%26pa ge%3DNewsArticle%26id%3D6847%26news_iv_ctrl%3D1261 )
Ithaca Journal - Ithaca,NY,USA
The Climate Change Action Group of Central New York is hosting two free workshops on ways individuals and communities can lower global warming emissions. ...

Denying time and place in the global warming debate (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.theithacajournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20070608/NEWS01/70608004/1002)
ZNet - Woods Hole,MA,USA
Popular writers like the late Carl Sagan were sounding the alarm and explaining the science behind global warming to all those who would listen. ...
[URL="http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm%3FSectionID%3D57%26ItemID%3D13015"]

Boomer Chick

06-12-2007, 09:06 AM

Google News Alert for: global warming

Global Warming Hype (http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/hull061007.htm)
Canada Free Press - Canada
By Leon J. Hull, The global warming movement driven by its leading proponents, Al Gore and David Suzuki, appears to have deceived, through scare tactics, ...
[/URL]
Indians most worried about global warming: survey (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/hull061007.htm)
Hindustan Times - India
Bollywood stars walk down a green carpet, not a red one to highlight global warming, writes Vijay Dutt. Press Trust Of India Indians are far more concerned ...

Lights out in London for global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.hindustantimes.com/Redir.aspx%3FID%3D3b77a220-6fa6-4b4b-b789-35e8c65d4d96%26ParentID%3Dbe1dc28d-16bc-4105-bd39-c5ff43017cd2)
New Zealand Herald - New Zealand
... Clarence House, Canary Wharf, the BT Tower and at least one government department, will execute the black-out to raise awareness of global warming. ...

Wilson: Global Warming Bush, How to Call His Bluff (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm%3Fc_id%3D2%26objectid%3D10444743)
Scoop.co.nz - New Zealand
He now believes global warming is a danger and we ought to do something about it. Call him Global Warming Bush. The reaction of world leaders and ...

Arctic Explorer in Utah to Discuss Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0706/S00107.htm)
KSL-TV - Salt Lake City,UT,USA
A well-known Arctic explorer is in Utah today, talking about his discovery of a newly-revealed island that's drawing worldwide attention to Global Warming. ...

Theology Professor Says Global Warming Isn't All Bad (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.ksl.com/%3Fnid%3D148%26sid%3D1329729)
KWTX - Waco,TX,USA
(June 10, 2007)--A theology professor who speaks for the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation says global warming isn't all bad. ...

Gore goes global for global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/7922892.html)
Battle Creek Enquirer - Battle Creek,MI,USA
Either way there are many thoughts on global warming. In Al Gore's movie about global warming, An Inconvenient Truth, he tries to open people's eyes about ...

Global warming bill heats up politics (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://battlecreekenquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20070610/LIFESTYLE08/706100304)
HeraldNet - Everett,WA,USA
By Jerry Cornfield Global warming is no longer only a fascination of scientists and a fixation of a former Democrat vice president. ...

Bush is not qualified to plan for global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/07/06/10/100loc_b1cornfield001.cfm)
The Daily Advertiser - Lafayette,LA,USA
How can it be that President Bush, after years of denial, suddenly declares his support in the struggle to slow global warming? ...

China unveils anti-global warming effort (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.theadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20070610/OPINION03/706100370/1014/OPINION)
The News Journal - Wilmington,DE,USA
By AUDRA ANG, AP BEIJING -- China promised last week to better control emissions of greenhouse gases, unveiling a national program to combat global warming, ...
[URL="http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20070610/BUSINESS/706100338/1003"]

halva

06-12-2007, 08:09 PM

The Al Gore global warming film was shown last Friday in Aigina and the man himself is speaking in Athens tonight, at the Megaro Mousikis.

Boomer Chick

06-13-2007, 09:06 AM

Google News Alert for: global warming
Western governors to continue focus on global warming (http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2007/06/12/news/top/doc466ef90c29341013838079.txt)
Rapid City Journal - Rapid City,SD,USA
By Chet Brokaw, AP DEADWOOD -- The Western Governors' Association will focus on global warming, ways to produce cleaner energy and reducing the impact of ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2007/06/12/news/top/doc466ef90c29341013838079.txt)
[/URL]
Pet Populations on the Increase Because of Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2007/06/12/news/top/doc466ef90c29341013838079.txt)
Gear Live - Olympia,WA,USA
Kathy Warnick, PAA's president, seems to think this is due to global warming. "States that typically experience primarily longer and colder winters are now ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.gearlive.com/news/article/q107-pet-populations-increase-global-warming/)

Google, Intel pair up to reduce global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.gearlive.com/news/article/q107-pet-populations-increase-global-warming/)
San Jose Mercury News - CA, USA
By Mark Boslet Google and Intel today kicked off an effort to help blunt the impact of global warming by bringing greater energy efficiency to personal ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6123088)

Western Governors Focus On Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6123088)
KKTV 11 News - Colorado Springs,CO,USA
Reporter: AP The new chairman of the Western Governors' Association said the group will continue its focus on global warming and what steps the western ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/7960957.html)

Western governors to continue focus on global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/7960957.html)
9NEWS.com - Denver,CO,USA
PIERRE, SD (AP) - The Western Governors' Association will focus on global warming, ways to produce cleaner energy and reducing the impact of climate change, ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx%3Fstoryid%3D71822)

Global warming discussion still alive (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx%3Fstoryid%3D71822)
Paradise Post - Paradise,CA,USA
By Dick Little So you think global warming is a done deal. A large number of politicians and environmentalists would like you to believe that. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.paradisepost.com/columns/ci_6122277)

Microsoft Goes Green with Global Warming Challenge (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.paradisepost.com/columns/ci_6122277)
Shacknews - USA
The Xbox 360 Games for Change Challenge will see college students from over 100 countries creating games based on global warming, with cash prizes serving ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/47368)

Local residents' opinions on global warming are mixed (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/47368)
The Commercial Dispatch - Columbus,MS,USA
By Jonathan Brown Recognizing the problem of global warming, world leaders recently agreed to call for global greenhouse gas emissions to be significantly ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.cdispatch.com/articles/2007/06/12/local_news/local03.txt)

Canadian Economist Proposes Global Warming Solution Everyone ... (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.cdispatch.com/articles/2007/06/12/local_news/local03.txt)
NewsBusters - USA
However, since global warming alarmism appears to be much more about money and wealth redistribution, I don't believe for a second that folks like ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://newsbusters.org/node/13388)

[URL="http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=6647084&nav=menu438_1"]UW scientist says global warming not melting snows of Kilimanjaro (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://newsbusters.org/node/13388)
KHQ Right Now - Spokane,WA,USA
He says global warming is a fact, but the inconvenient truth is that the snows of Kilamanjaro are retreating because new snow doesn't make up for ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp%3FS%3D6647084%26nav%3Dmenu438_1)

Boomer Chick

06-13-2007, 09:12 AM

Did we post this earlier?

Source: The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2381060.ece). Published: 22 March 2007. By Stephen Castle

http://www.airapparent.ca/library/full_text/openskies_pact_worsen_warming.htm

Open Skies Pact Will Worsen Climate Change

"This will lead to some 3.5 million tonnes of extra CO2 emissions annually"

BRUSSELS - Plans to open up transatlantic aviation and generate an extra 26 million air passengers over five years will undermine Europe's push to combat climate change, campaigners warned yesterday.

An "open skies" agreement, due to be agreed by EU transport ministers today, is being hailed as a revolution by officials who say it will deliver more competition and lower fares.
But environmental groups say the increased air traffic generated by the measure will write off all the benefits expected from separate plans to "green" aviation by bringing airlines into the EU's carbon emissions trading scheme.
Coming just days after EU leaders announced ambitious plans to combat global warming, the row over "open skies" has prompted questions about the EU's commitment to the environment. Under the deal, any EU airline will be able to fly to the US from any part of Europe ushering in a dramatic change in the structure of transatlantic aviation.
Britain is unhappy with the blueprint because it will open Heathrow up to more competition without gaining a key concession sought by European operators: the lifting of restrictions on foreign ownership of American carriers.
The UK currently accounts for 40 per cent of the transatlantic aviation, mainly because of Heathrow. Only two UK and two US airlines can operate this lucrative route. Italy, which wants to privatise Alitalia, also has reservations over "open skies" but most diplomats expect the deal to go through at today's meeting.
According to the European Commission, the plan will create 72,000 jobs on both sides of the Atlantic. Over a period of five years 26 million additional passengers would fly across the Atlantic. By the fifth year the market would have grown by a third creating 9.6 million more travellers.
The deal would end a situation under which current aviation arrangements are in legal limbo following a ruling in the European Court of Justice.
British Airways, one of Heathrow's transatlantic operators, would lose out. But bmi (formerly British Midland) and foreign airlines such as Aer Lingus could be able to use their existing slots at London's main airport for flights to the US.
Freight carriers from the US would be able to fly to the UK and then on to China, something currently prohibited.
The European Federation for Transport and the Environment pressure group said that, based on the Commission calculations, "This will lead to some 3.5 million tonnes of extra CO2 emissions annually. This is about as much as the expected reduction of aviation emissions resulting from the inclusion of aviation into the European emissions trading system". It also argued that the deal makes it difficult to change the current system under which kerosene is exempt from taxation.
Caroline Lucas, a Green MEP, argued: "This 'Open Skies' agreement risks undermining all the EU's effort on tackling climate change, and must be rejected - at least until both the EU and US have adopted a tough package of measures to reduce the sector's emissions year-on-year, such as establishing an aviation-only emissions trading scheme with fixed, annually reducing emissions caps.
"It is simply incompatible to be encouraging a large increase in the number of flights between the EU and US and cutting greenhouse gas emissions sufficiently to either prevent the worst impacts of climate change, or even meet the emissions reductions targets agreed at the Brussels summit this month."
But Barbara Helfferich, the environment spokeswoman for the European Commission, said: "All airlines will be included in the emissions trading system, whether European or non-EU. The more flights there are, the higher the cost of carbon will be for the carriers. We are confident that this will oblige the airlines to contribute their fair share to fighting climate change."
In 2004, 47.4 million passengers flew between the EU and the US. The Commission report, written by the consultants Booz Allen Hamilton, argues that, with open skies, "airline fares would fall, new jobs would be created to serve the new passengers, there is greater consumer choice for airports and airlines and economic growth is stimulated. Over the course of the five years these effects generate a consumer surplus of between €6.4bn (£4.4bn) and €12bn."
Air travel now...
EU-US traffic at 47.4 million passengers per year, though this is lower than its peak year in 2000.
US air transport industry carried more than 712 million passengers in 2004, of whom just 9 per cent flew internationally.
EU industry carried 650 million people, of whom more than one third were travelling outside Europe.
Together the EU and US account for more than half of all global scheduled traffic.
... and in the future
An extra 26 million transatlantic passengers over five years.
Benefits worth €6.4bn-€12bn (£4.3bn-£8.2bn).
Additional 72,000 jobs created in the EU and US over five years.
An extra 100,000-170,000 extra tonnes of freight generated.
Gains in savings and productivity leading to lower fares.
More opportunities for airlines to pool resources.
Source: The Independent (http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/climate_change/article2381060.ece)
Related:
'Open Skies' air treaty threat (http://www.airapparent.ca/library/full_text/openskies_airtreaty_threat.htm)
How our planet is being raped by cheap air travel (http://www.airapparent.ca/library/planet_raped.htm)
The real cost of those lower airline fares (http://www.airapparent.ca/library/cost_lower_airline_fares.htm)
Contrails reduce daily temperature (http://www.airapparent.ca/library/contrails_reducetemp_full.htm)
Aviation and the global atmosphere (http://www.airapparent.ca/abstract/aviation_globalatmosphere.htm)

Boomer Chick

06-13-2007, 09:20 AM

How China's weather mod. programs will affect the rest of the world is not known. But I can't blame them for attempting to control their weather.

Source: China View (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-05/21/content_6129170.htm). May 21 2007 Government to set up center for weather control

By 2010, the volume of artificial rain is expected to reach 50 billion tons a year

BEIJING, May 21 -- A national command center for weather modification will be built before 2010 to coordinate the practices of rainmaking and hail suppression around the country.
China regularly suffers from natural disasters, and its weather-modification operations are the largest in the world.
Thirty of the country's 34 provinces, municipalities, autonomous regions and special administrative regions and 1,952 of about 2,900 counties have been involved in such operations and they are equipped with 7,113 anti-aircraft guns, 4,991 special rocket launchers and more than 32,300 people, figures from the China Meteorological Administration (CMA) said.
Since 1999, some 250 billion tons of rain have been created and 470,000 sq km of land have been protected from hail. By 2010, the volume of artificial rain is expected to reach 50 billion tons a year.
Weather modification is even being used to help Beijing prevent a downpour forecast for the opening day of the 2008 Olympics.
All weather-modification efforts would be coordinated by central government with support from provincial, municipal and county administrations by 2010. A national weather-modification experimental base will also be launched, it said.
Having a national command center and experimental base will better protect the country against extreme weather conditions, the report quoted an unnamed official from the meteorological office as saying.
China is at more risk of being hit this year by extreme weather, such as drought, floods and typhoons, than at any time over the past decade because of climate change. Droughts could seriously affect northern areas, while heavy rainfalls could hit the south, Zheng Guoguang, director of the CMA, told China Daily last month.
Consideration is also being given to the health and safety of those involved in modification efforts.
In May last year, the operator of an anti-aircraft gun in Pengshui County of Southwest China's Chongqing Municipality had his right arm blown to pieces and a passer-by was shot dead.
The county has four such guns for use in weather modification.
On Friday in Jinan, capital of East China's Shandong Province, a meeting to discuss safety issues was held between officers from two of China's seven military areas headquartered in Jinan and Nanjing, capital of East China's Jiangsu Province, and representatives of the North Sea Fleet of the navy, all of whom are involved in local weather-modification efforts.
Source: China View (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-05/21/content_6129170.htm). May 21 2007

foot_soldier

06-13-2007, 08:25 PM

Given the record-breaking heat wave in parts of northeastern China and the torrential rains and flooding in the southern provinces this week I was wondering last night to what extent the Chinese government is continuing with its rather extensive weather modification program. I guess the above-posted article answers that question.

From the article:
.....Since 1999, some 250 billion tons of rain have been created and 470,000 sq km of land have been protected from hail. By 2010, the volume of artificial rain is expected to reach 50 billion tons a year. Weather modification is even being used to help Beijing prevent a downpour forecast for the opening day of the 2008 Olympics.....

I should think the deliberate extraction of that much water from the atmosphere would definitely have an impact outside of China, if not globally, then certainly hemispherically.

Boomer Chick

06-14-2007, 09:54 AM

I should think the deliberate extraction of that much water from the atmosphere would definitely have an impact outside of China, if not globally, then certainly hemispherically.

I don't know if EXTRACT is such a precise term. Pollution and even black soot from contrails promotes condensation particle formation thus producing clouds. Cloud seeding just promotes more cloud formation and forces the water to drop. I just don't know if a mining term is appropriate. Isn't cloud seeding more of a CREATION term?

Yes, I'm sure it would impact in various ways but precisely how will probably show up in Pacific Ocean weather systems. I could only speculate, but perhaps the moisture build ups would be less? But they also could increase. Maybe the created rains on the continent will wash out pollutants and the clouds traveling to the West Coast across the Pacific will contain less pollution? Maybe bringing rain to drought areas will promote more continental evaporation and at the same time increase ground water and replenish wells?

Overall, I have faith in Nature's balancing act and given the size of the ocean systems, I just can't imagine that China's weather mod programs will negatively affect weather systems hitting our shores. But then again, I'm no atmospheric scientist.

We'll keep an eye on further studies.

Boomer Chick

06-14-2007, 09:58 AM

Google News Alert for: global warming

Western governors to continue focus on global warming (http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2007/06/12/news/top/doc466ef90c29341013838079.txt)
Rapid City Journal - Rapid City,SD,USA
By Chet Brokaw, AP DEADWOOD -- The Western Governors' Association will focus on global warming, ways to produce cleaner energy and reducing the impact of ...
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[/URL]
Pet Populations on the Increase Because of Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2007/06/12/news/top/doc466ef90c29341013838079.txt)
Gear Live - Olympia,WA,USA
Kathy Warnick, PAA's president, seems to think this is due to global warming. "States that typically experience primarily longer and colder winters are now ...
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Google, Intel pair up to reduce global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.gearlive.com/news/article/q107-pet-populations-increase-global-warming/)
San Jose Mercury News - CA, USA
By Mark Boslet Google and Intel today kicked off an effort to help blunt the impact of global warming by bringing greater energy efficiency to personal ...
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Western Governors Focus On Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6123088)
KKTV 11 News - Colorado Springs,CO,USA
Reporter: AP The new chairman of the Western Governors' Association said the group will continue its focus on global warming and what steps the western ...
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Western governors to continue focus on global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/7960957.html)
9NEWS.com - Denver,CO,USA
PIERRE, SD (AP) - The Western Governors' Association will focus on global warming, ways to produce cleaner energy and reducing the impact of climate change, ...
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Global warming discussion still alive (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx%3Fstoryid%3D71822)
Paradise Post - Paradise,CA,USA
By Dick Little So you think global warming is a done deal. A large number of politicians and environmentalists would like you to believe that. ...
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Microsoft Goes Green with Global Warming Challenge (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.paradisepost.com/columns/ci_6122277)
Shacknews - USA
The Xbox 360 Games for Change Challenge will see college students from over 100 countries creating games based on global warming, with cash prizes serving ...
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Local residents' opinions on global warming are mixed (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/47368)
The Commercial Dispatch - Columbus,MS,USA
By Jonathan Brown Recognizing the problem of global warming, world leaders recently agreed to call for global greenhouse gas emissions to be significantly ...
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Canadian Economist Proposes Global Warming Solution Everyone ... (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.cdispatch.com/articles/2007/06/12/local_news/local03.txt)
NewsBusters - USA
However, since global warming alarmism appears to be much more about money and wealth redistribution, I don't believe for a second that folks like ...
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[URL="http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=6647084&nav=menu438_1"]UW scientist says global warming not melting snows of Kilimanjaro (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://newsbusters.org/node/13388)
KHQ Right Now - Spokane,WA,USA
He says global warming is a fact, but the inconvenient truth is that the snows of Kilamanjaro are retreating because new snow doesn't make up for ...
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foot_soldier

06-14-2007, 07:06 PM

I don't know if EXTRACT is such a precise term. Pollution and even black soot from contrails promotes condensation particle formation thus producing clouds. Cloud seeding just promotes more cloud formation and forces the water to drop. I just don't know if a mining term is appropriate. Isn't cloud seeding more of a CREATION term?

The last word that would enter my mind in relation to cloud seeding is "creation".

How about "suck", as described herein:

11/15/2006
Magic Water Harvesting Machine
http://www.off-grid.net/index.php?p=636

Amazing. A gizmo which sucks the air in, then sucks the water out of the air, and then spews out clean fresh water. 500 Gallons of it – a day. Every off-grid home should have one. Only problem is it’ll set you back a cool $500,000 . FEMA have already bought two, and the US Army is said to be on the verge of buying many, because getting our boys pure water is one of the key logistics requirements of any operational planning.

The box o’ tricks is from Aqua Sciences Inc, and the company says the high cost is justified because in the end it “only costs you $0.25 per gallon.” For those of us without an entire battalion at our command, however the price is still a little steep. The makers are working on a consumer model, but it won’t be out any time soon.

Its precise workings aren’t public, but they use a chemical process similar to the one that causes salt to absorb moisture from the air (and clump up your saltshaker). The water-harvesting technology was originally the brainchild of the Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), which sought ways to ensure sustainable water supplies for U.S. combat troops deployed in arid regions like Iraq..... (continued)

Yes, I'm sure it would impact in various ways but precisely how will probably show up in Pacific Ocean weather systems. I could only speculate, but perhaps the moisture build ups would be less? But they also could increase. Maybe the created rains on the continent will wash out pollutants and the clouds traveling to the West Coast across the Pacific will contain less pollution? Maybe bringing rain to drought areas will promote more continental evaporation and at the same time increase ground water and replenish wells?

Overall, I have faith in Nature's balancing act and given the size of the ocean systems, I just can't imagine that China's weather mod programs will negatively affect weather systems hitting our shores. But then again, I'm no atmospheric scientist.

If the ocean systems continue warming at the surface (as is currently being documented) they may not function in relation to the atmosphere as they have heretofore been known to. Global wind patterns, among other things, will change significantly.

I personally feel that Nature will, in the end, have the last word in the balance department.

Be that as it may, are we not part of Nature?

Or do we perceive Nature in the same way as we apparently perceive everything else from which we imagine we are separate?

I believe our relationship with the natural world needs to be more dynamic and more tangible. I am in favor of working with the natural forces, not in attempting to exploit and manipulate them.

We'll keep an eye on further studies.
.

Boomer Chick

06-14-2007, 10:02 PM

Actually, FS, creating greater humidity through rain, is the exact opposite of sucking water from air. The dewpoint is reached in cloud seeding and the condensed particles then release their loads creating more humidity not less. So I will have to differ with you, but that machine is quite interesting.

You gave no specifics as to HOW and in WHAT WAY the ocean/atmosphere interchange would change. You only said you expect it to change. And I just don't know.

However, I do believe that we ARE part of nature. We are connected to everything on earth and earth itself.

;)

halva

06-14-2007, 10:29 PM

As long as both of you remain interested in continuing this dialogue, I am interested in following it. It may not be centred on MY problematic, but if it is centred on a problematic you BOTH genuinely believe in then that it is a reason for me to try to understand it. It is a step forward from centring our discussions around the positions of people who do not believe what they say.

Boomer Chick

06-15-2007, 03:43 PM

Google News Alert for: global warming

Southern Baptists question human role in global warming (http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/articles/2007/06/15/news/doc4672be1ada0b2676865802.txt)
Siskiyou Daily News - Yreka,CA,USA
By ERIC GORSKI AP Religion Writer SAN ANTONIO - Southern Baptists approved a resolution on global warming Wednesday that questions the prevailing scientific ...
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I Want My GoreTV: MTV Launches New Global Warming Alarmism Campaign (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/articles/2007/06/15/news/doc4672be1ada0b2676865802.txt)
NewsBusters - USA
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Renzi, 4 other Western Republicans targeted over global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://newsbusters.org/node/13484)
AZ Central.com - AZ,USA
Rick Renzi and four other Western Republicans over global warming. The lawmakers from California, Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico have their "heads in the ...
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Deaths from heat stress linked to global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0614renzi-warming0614-ON.html)
AXcess News - Georgetown,KY,USA
The researchers found that global warming causes summer temperatures to dramatically exceed the range that was correlated with the increased number of ...
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Bush Warming to Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.axcessnews.com/index.php/articles/show/id/11298)
Spot-On - USA
In addition to that change, Mr. Sullivan said that graphs in the exhibit were altered in order to show "that global warming could go either way". ...
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Global warming may yet come up peaches (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.spot-on.com/archives/brauchli/2007/06/bush_warming_to_global_warming.html)
The Australian - Sydney,Australia
IT is not in former US vice-president Al Gore's famous PowerPoint presentation on the environment, but there are upsides to global warming. ...
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Global-warming is the '900-pound gorilla' of policy decisions (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21914076-601,00.html)
De Smog Blog - Vancouver,BC,Canada
... power plants are increasing global temperatures, and that warming of even a few degrees causes flooding, heat waves, droughts, and tropical diseases. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.desmogblog.com/global-warming-is-the-900-pound-gorilla-of-policy-decisions)

Six Romanians Against Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.desmogblog.com/global-warming-is-the-900-pound-gorilla-of-policy-decisions)
Jurnalul National - Bucharest,Romania
The issue of the global warming is on the first page of all the newspapers in the world and the political decisions regarding it are more and more often. ...

[URL="http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.jurnalul.ro/articole/95002/six-romanians-against-global-warming"]*** (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.jurnalul.ro/articole/95002/six-romanians-against-global-warming)

Nice comment, halva.

Boy those Romanians think for themselves. heh? :)
(http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.jurnalul.ro/articole/95002/six-romanians-against-global-warming)

Boomer Chick

06-15-2007, 04:39 PM

06/15/07 - Would Liquid Coal Lead To Energy Independence Or Global Warming? (http://www.thedailygreen.com/2007/06/13/poll-results-will-liquid-coal-lead-to-energy-independence-or-global-warming/2524/)
Liquid coal could potentially replace foreign oil with a domestic vehicle fuel, but coal is among the most carbon-heavy fuels around, so without technology to strip carbon prior to burning, it would unleash additional greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama recently changed his position on liquid coal, and its use gets to the heart of an emerging debate over the goal of energy independence. / Comment - Carbon sequestration/recapture and nuclear power lie at the heart of the best plans for liquid coal refineries. If that happens, the co2 problem goes away. We only have around 30 years left on conventional oil and there will be 9 billion mouths to feed. We need to be open to ALL options if we expect human life on this planet to continue.

halva

06-19-2007, 12:03 AM

halva

06-19-2007, 12:05 AM

Nice comment, halva.

Perhaps, but it seems to have put an end to your dialogue. Oh well, it is after all YOUR dialogue.

Boomer Chick

06-19-2007, 09:27 AM

Does anyone know about these gravity wave experiments? I'm at a loss to begin to understand this:

http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2007/2006JD007908.shtml

:confused:

Boomer Chick

06-19-2007, 09:33 AM

I found the study of CO2 interesting in that the measured amount at that altitude and location has DECREASED:

http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2007/2006JD008184.shtml

Boomer Chick

06-19-2007, 10:07 AM

The Great Lakes seem to be drying up: Global Warming?

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=257462

halva

06-29-2007, 11:40 PM

One Pathway To Climate Peace
29 Jun 07
http://www.desmogblog.com/one-pathway-to-climate-peace-0

Unintentionally, we have set in motion massive systems of the planet with huge amounts of inertia that have kept it relatively hospitable to civilization for the last 10,000 years. We have reversed the carbon cycle by more than 400,000 years. We have heated the deep oceans. We have loosed a wave of violent and chaotic weather. We have altered the timing of the seasons. We are living on a very precarious margin of stability. Against that background, we are offering this set of strategies. We believe these strategies present a model of the scope and scale of action that is appropriate to the magnitude of the climate crisis.

To date, we have not seen other policy recommendations that adequately address either the scope or urgency of the problem. Largely because of inaction by the world’s governments, it seems that the Kyoto goals (but not the Kyoto process) are fast becoming obsolete – and that it is soon time to go straight for the goal of 70 percent reductions globally.

Our hope is to get ideas of this scope into the conversation to help move it to an appropriate level.

The Plan involves three interacting strategies which include:

In industrial countries, the withdrawal of subsidies from fossil fuels and the establishment of equivalent subsidies for clean energy sources;

The creation of a large fund -- perhaps through a small tax on global commerce -- to transfer clean energy technologies to developing countries; and,
The incorporation within the Kyoto framework of a progressively more stringent Fossil Fuel Efficiency Standard that rises by 5 percent per year.

Subsidy switch:
The United States currently spends more than $20 billion a year to subsidize fossil fuels. (In 2007, that figure topped $37 billion). In the industrial countries overall, those subsidies have been estimated at $200 billion a year. We are proposing that, in the industrial countries, those subsidies be withdrawn from fossil fuels and equivalent subsidies be established to promote the development of clean energy sources. (Clearly a small portion of the U.S. subsidies must be used to retrain or buyout the nation’s 50,000 or so coal miners.) But the lions’ share of the subsidies would still be available for use by the major oil companies to retrain their workers and re-tool to become aggressive developers of fuel cells, wind farms, and solar systems.

At the same time, I believe, you would see the emergence of an army of energy engineers and entrepreneurs – with successively more efficient generations of solar film, turbines and tidal devices – in a burst of creativity that would rival the dot.com explosion of the 1990s. But even if the countries of the North were dramatically to reduce emissions, those cuts would be overwhelmed by the coming pulse of carbon from India, China, Mexico and Nigeria. Therefore the second element of the plan involves the creation of a fund of about $300 billion a year for several years to jumpstart renewable energy infrastructures in developing countries. Virtually all poor countries would love to go solar; virtually none can afford it. The most air-polluted cities in the world today are in China, Mexico, Thailand, Chile and other developing and transitional countries.

Energy Modernization Fund:
The size of the fund was calculated by energy policy specialists at the Tellus Institute. It could be financed by any number of mechanisms – a carbon tax in industrial countries or a tax on international air travel, to name two. One source we like is a tax on international currency transactions, named after its developer, the late Nobel prize-winning economist Dr. James Tobin. While Tobin conceived his tax as a way of damping the volatility in capital markets, it would also generate enormous revenues. Today the commerce in currency swaps amounts to $1.5 trillion per day.

A tax of a quarter-penny on a dollar would net out to about $300 billion a year for wind farms in India, fuel-cell factories in South Africa, solar assemblies in El Salvador, and vast, solar-powered hydrogen farms in the Middle East. Since currency transactions are electronically tracked by the private banking system, the need for a large, new bureaucracy could be avoided by paying the banks a fee to administer the fund. That fee could, to a large extent, offset their loss of income from the contraction in currency trading that would result from the tax. And the involvement of the banks in administering the fund would go a long way to minimizing corruption and ensuring that the money went directly to clean energy projects. The only new bureaucracy we envision would be an international auditing agency to ensure equal access for all energy vendors and to minimize corruption in recipient countries. (Several developing country commentators have suggested that corruption could be further curtailed by requiring recipient governments to include representatives of indigenous minorities, universities, NGOs and labor unions in their decisions about procuring new energy resources.)

If a currency transaction tax proves unacceptable, a carbon tax in industrial countries or a tax on international airline travel could fill the same function. Economists estimate that if carbon emissions were taxed at the rate of $50 a ton, the revenue would approximate the $300 billion from a tax on currency transactions.(Parenthetically, at this point, we have not calculated what would happen to transitional prices of carbon fuels if subsidies were removed and a carbon tax imposed at the same time. That may, or may not, be a viable combination.) Regardless of its revenue source, the fund – on the ground -- would be allocated according to a United Nations formula to determine what percentage of each year’s fund would go to each developing country.

If India, for instance, were to receive $5 billion in the first year, it would then decide what mix of wind farms, village solar installations, fuel cell generators and biogas facilities it wanted. The Indian government (in this hypothetical example) would then entertain bids for these facilities. As contractors reached specified benchmarks, they would then be paid directly by the banks.

As self-replicating renewable infrastructures took root in developing countries, the fund could simply be phased out. Alternatively, progressively larger amounts of the fund could be diverted to other global environment and development needs.

Progressive Fossil Fuel Efficiency Standard:
The third – and unifying – strategy of the plan – which makes it all work -- calls on the parties to Kyoto to subordinate the uneven and inequitable system of international emissions trading to a simple and equitable progressively more stringent Fossil Fuel Efficiency Standard which goes up by about five percent per year. This mechanism, if incorporated into the Kyoto Protocol, would harmonize and guide the global energy transition in a way that emissions trading can not. Even if all the shortcomings involving monitoring, enforcement and equity could be resolved, international carbon trading would most appropriately be used as a fine-tuning instrument – to help countries attain the final 10 to 15 percent of their obligations.

It is not the workhorse vehicle required to propel a worldwide energy transition. We simply can’t finesse nature with accounting tricks.

halva

06-29-2007, 11:41 PM

Instead, we are proposing that the parties to the Kyoto talks adopt a progressively more stringent Fossil Fuel Efficiency Standard which we believe would be simple to negotiate, easy to monitor and ultimately fair. (National "cap-and-trade" regimes could be useful in helping countries meet the progressive standard.) Under this mechanism, every country would start at its current baseline to increase its Fossil Fuel energy efficiency by 5 percent every year until the global 70 percent reduction is attained. That means a country would produce the same amount of goods as the previous year with five percent less carbon fuel. Alternatively, it would produce five percent more goods with the same carbon fuel use as the previous year. Since no economy grows at five percent for long, emissions reductions would outpace long-term economic growth. For the first few years of the efficiency standard, most countries would likely meet their goals by implementing low-cost or even profitable efficiencies – the “low-hanging fruit” -- in their current energy systems.

After a few years, however, as those efficiencies became more expensive to capture, countries would meet the progressively more stringent standard by drawing more and more energy from non-carbon sources – most of which are 100 percent efficient by a Fossil Fuel standard. That, in turn, would create the mass markets and economies of scale for renewables that would bring down their prices and make them competitive with coal and oil. This approach would be far simpler to negotiate than the current Protocol, with its morass of details involving emissions trading, reviews of the adequacy of commitments and differentiated targets. It would also be far easier to monitor. A nation's compliance would be measured simply by calculating the annual change in the ratio of its carbon fuel use to its gross domestic product. That ratio would have to change by 5 percent a year. This approach has a precedent in the Montreal Protocol, under which companies phased out ozone-destroying chemicals. That protocol was successful because the same companies that made the destructive chemicals were able to produce their substitutes – with no loss of competitive standing within the industry. An energy transition must be regulated in the same way.

Several oil executives have said in private conversations that they can, in an orderly fashion, decarbonize their energy supplies. But they need the governments of the world to regulate the process so all companies can make the transition in lockstep without losing market share to competitors.

A progressive Fossil Fuel Efficiency Standard would, I think, provide that type of regulation. The plan, then, would be driven by three engines: the subsidy switch would propel the metamorphosis of oil companies into energy companies; the progressive fossil fuel efficiency standard would harmonize the transformation of national energy structures and create a level field of predictable regulation for the major energy corporations; and the competition for the new $300 billion a year market in clean energy would power the whole process.

A global public works program to rewire the planet would create millions of jobs, especially in developing countries. It would turn impoverished and dependent countries into trading partners. It would raise living standards abroad without compromising ours. It would undermine the economic desperation that gives rise to so much anti-US sentiment. And in a very short time, it would jump the renewable energy industry into a central, driving engine of growth of the global economy.

Finally, at the risk of being overly visionary, I do believe, because energy is so central to our existence, that a common global project to rewire the world with clean energy could be the first step on a path to peace -- even in today's profoundly fractured world: Peace among people and peace between people and nature. Stepping back for a moment to a wider-angle vantage point, this kind of initiative could also be the beginning of the end of an outdated and increasingly toxic nationalism which we have long ago outgrown.

The economy is becoming truly globalized. The globalization of communications now makes it possible for any person to communicate with anyone else around the world. And since it is no respecter of national boundaries, the global climate makes us one. We hear many complaints about the costliness of addressing the climate crisis. But the real economic issue in rewiring the world with clean energy is not cost. The real economic issue is whether the world has a large enough labor force to accomplish this task in time to meet nature's deadline.

But therein lies the catch -- nature's deadline. A growing number of the world's leading climate scientists agree that we are already too far along a catastrophic trajectory to avoid significant disruptions. So my enthusiasm for the healing potential -- on many different levels -- of something like these solutions is tempered by an increasingly loud and persisting question: how are people of good will and social conscience supposed to respond in the face of a coming age of collapse? There is no body of expertise -- no authoritative answers -- for this one.

We are crossing a threshold into uncharted territory. And since there is no precedent to guide us, we are left with only our own hearts to consult, the intellectual integrity to look reality in the eye, whatever courage we can muster and our uncompromising dedication to a human future that reflects the combined aspirations of every single reader of this essay.

-- Ross Gelbspan

Boomer Chick

07-03-2007, 10:29 AM

Google News Alert for: global warming
1000-year-old Arctic ponds disappearing due to global warming (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-07/03/content_6319287.htm)
Xinhua - China
Until recent years, the ponds of the study sites were permanent features of the landscape, but in early July 2006, because of warming trends in the Arctic, ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-07/03/content_6319287.htm)
California's air chief quits, citing meddling by governor's team (http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6283476)
San Jose Mercury News - CA, USA
The picture Witherspoon painted of a governor who was being misled and micromanaged by a staff that was trying to weaken the global warming law out of fear ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6283476)
Global Warming Drying Up Ancient Arctic Ponds (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/07/070702-arctic-warming.html)
National Geographic - Washington,DC,USA
Arctic ponds that have hosted diverse ecosystems for thousands of years are now disappearing because of global warming, according to a new study. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/07/070702-arctic-warming.html)
WHO director warns of global health crisis (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=119853)
Bangkok Post - Thailand
Shigeru Omi, WHO's regional director for the Western Pacific region, said the current crisis was masked by the fact that global warming issues did not ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php%3Fid%3D119853)
Readers React Angrily to Global Warming Column (http://www.designnews.com/blog/1100000110/post/30011403.html)
Design News - Newton,MA,USA
Those readers insisted that global warming is no longer a debatable subject, and told me that I was horribly out of touch for believing otherwise. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.designnews.com/blog/1100000110/post/30011403.html)
Survey: Al Gore is Top Dog Among Global Warming Champions (http://newsbusters.org/node/13875)
NewsBusters - USA
If your name is Al Gore, it means that a majority of respondents to a worldwide poll believe you have the power to battle the evil known as global warming: ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://newsbusters.org/node/13875)
Global warming could increase US death rate (http://uk.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUKKUA26100320070702)
Reuters.uk - UK
By Amy Norton NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - An increase in summertime heat waves from global warming could mean more deaths among Americans each year, ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://uk.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUKKUA26100320070702)
Global Warming, please explain. (http://www.afterellen.com/node/17620)
AfterEllen.com - USA
My friends and I were having one of those way too late drunken discussions one night when we realized that none of us truly understood global warming, ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.afterellen.com/node/17620)
NBC Donates 75 Hours to Gore's Global-Warming Campaign (http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000004965.cfm)
CitizenLink - Colorado Springs,CO,USA
by Jennifer Mesko, associate editor Al Gore's message of global-warming alarmism will flood televisions, radios and the Internet in more than 100 countries ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000004965.cfm)
The apparent social psychology of Big Business elites on Global ... (http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/07/02/01645.html)
Canadian National Newspaper - Toronto,Ontario,Canada
The following provides a synthesis of the apparent ideology associated with Big Business resistance to redressing Global Warming through the Kyoto Protocol ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/07/02/01645.html)

Boomer Chick

07-03-2007, 10:33 AM

Thanks for posting on this thread, Halva.

I don't spend as much time online posting on boards, anymore. But I'm here. If you want me to post or respond to a particular thread, please PM me. I get those sent directly into my e-mail. OK?

Hope everyone is enjoying a warm but not too warm, summer!

What is with the little squares as May pointed out? I never even knew there were comments connected to those things. Whatever.

:cool:

halva

07-03-2007, 12:23 PM

What is with the little squares as May pointed out? I never even knew there were comments connected to those things. Whatever.

:cool:

Neither did I. Perhaps the best thing for everyone to do now is to get away from this board and start concentrating on our working from where we are.

Boomer Chick

07-04-2007, 07:29 PM

Neither did I. Perhaps the best thing for everyone to do now is to get away from this board and start concentrating on our working from where we are.

That sounds like a plan.

halva

07-04-2007, 08:36 PM

The climate change issue as such doesn't get us any closer to investigation or solution of our aerosol spraying/geoengineering/weather modfication concern.

Footsoldier's strategy of conflating the question with that of "involuntary" aircraft emissions in order to get an audience seems to have been utilized by Rosalind Peterson also and the fudging may have been a contributory factor in her getting herself an invite to speak at a UN meeting in New York. We still haven't seen how she is going to handle the brief she has been given or the confusion that can arise out of it..

But Rosalind also seems to be trying out another line: linking geoengineering to carbon offsetting/emissions trading. I suppose it must be true that there are direct monetary incentives leading to a preference for geoengineering "solutions" over strategies leading to reductions in greenhouse gas emissions.

And there are people "being paid" (wouldn't it be nice to be a "paid agent"?) to investigate the unsatisfactory and phony aspects of emissions trading.
http://www.carbontradewatch.org

Are they a potentially more hospitable audience for weather modification/geoengineering activists than the mainstream of the climate change movement?

Megasprayer is kicking people off for trying to get some clarity into this debate (from the starting point of the differences between George Monbiot and Tim Flannery on "aircraft emissions").

halva

07-04-2007, 10:32 PM

Events which led to the adoption of pollution trading in the Kyoto Protocol show polluters successfully turning the potential threat of climate change into an opportunity for profit in the form of pollution trading. Corporations have successfully dominated United Nations (UN) process and there has been a slow decline in the ability of environmental NGOs to stand behind an environmental negotiating position. At the Rio Earth Summit in 1992, the NGO Global Forum stated that climate negotiators should avoid any pollution trading schemes which "only superficially address climate change problems, perpetuate or worsen inequities hidden behind the problem or have a negative impact." Later, criticism heightened with arguments that a trade in greenhouse gases would be a new form of colonialism. Public protest outside the negotiations mounted. However, eventually the combined power of multi-stakeholder dialogue, the corporate lobby and neo-liberal ideology extinguished other voices inside the negotiations.

The US rejection of the Kyoto Protocol accelerated this trend. The overwhelming majority of remaining critical NGOs and governments rushed to compromise in the hope of keeping sceptical governments on board and trying to win back the US. Many environmental NGOs have negotiated themselves into a corner, which allows little space for effective critique of pollution trading but provides ample opportunities for consultancy work in the carbon economy.

Boomer Chick

08-06-2007, 03:42 PM

Too little too late!

Bush calls meeting on global warming for September

Fri 3 Aug 2007, 20:40 GMT

By Matt Spetalnick
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush unveiled plans on Friday for global warming talks next month that will bring together the world's biggest polluters to seek agreement on reducing greenhouse gases.

Under pressure for tougher action against climate change, Bush invited the European Union, the United Nations and 11 industrial and developing countries to the September 27-28 meeting in Washington to work toward setting a long-term goal by 2008 to cut emissions.

Bush was following through on his pledge in late May to convene a series of conferences with economic powers responsible for producing most of the greenhouse gases blamed for global warming.

The United States is the world's top emitter of greenhouse gases and the only G8 country outside Kyoto, the U.N.-sponsored plan for cutting greenhouse gases.
Some environmentalists voiced scepticism about the conference, seeing it as a bid to deflect attention from U.N. efforts and evade international calls for strict U.S. limits on emissions.

"In recent years, science has deepened our understanding of climate change and opened new possibilities for confronting it," Bush said in his invitation letter.
He insisted the United States "is committed to collaborating with other major economies" on a new global framework for curbing greenhouse gas emissions.

But a senior U.S. official said the administration stood by its opposition to mandatory economy-wide caps. Many climate experts say that without binding U.S. targets, the chance for significant progress is limited.

Bush agreed with leaders at a Group of Eight summit in June to make "substantial" but unspecified reductions in greenhouse emissions and to negotiate a new global climate pact that would broaden the Kyoto Protocol beyond its 2012 expiration.

But Bush has refused to sign up to numerical targets, insisting it would hurt U.S. business as long as fast-growing countries like India and China remained exempt.
China and India are invited to the conference, together with Japan, Canada, Brazil, South Korea, Mexico, Russia, Australia, Indonesia and South Africa. The EU will include representatives from France, Germany, Italy and Britain.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will host the meeting, and U.S. officials are confident all invitees will attend. CONDI? Oh please!

PRAISE AND SKEPTICISM
"We welcome U.S. engagement in the international efforts to combat climate change," British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said.
Yvo de Boer, the head of the Bonn-based U.N. Climate Change Secretariat, also praised the planned talks but said the proof would be in the outcome.

John Coequyt, a policy analyst with Greenpeace, expressed concern the Washington conference would be used to "erode support for the process that's strengthening at the U.N."

The talks, where the Bush administration will control the agenda, will take place three days after a U.N. summit on climate change in New York in which U.S. policy on global warming may come under sharp criticism.

The White House said the U.S. meeting was meant to supplement, not upstage, ongoing international initiatives.

Bush said he would address the conference, the first in a proposed series of meetings where he wants delegates to discuss ways to reach agreement by the end of 2008 on a long-term global goal to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Bush's position on climate change has evolved from questioning the science linking human activity to global warming in 2001 to agreeing to work to curb the problem.

But Bush blocked German-led efforts at the G8 summit to secure agreement on 50 percent cuts from 1990 levels by 2050. He agreed, however, to fold his own plans into the U.N. framework.

Bush is likely to be out of office by the time any post-Kyoto deal is clinched.
(Additional reporting by Patrick Worsnip in New York, David Alexander in Washington and Alister Doyle in Oslo)

http://africa.reuters.com/world/news/usnN03292598.html

###

Well, too little to late- Condi will not save the day.....stalling is their style, murder is their hallmark, oil, their god.

halva

08-06-2007, 09:13 PM

Well, too little to late- Condi will not save the day.....stalling is their style, murder is their hallmark, oil, their god.

This is an invitation for debate on the terms of "Condi".

What is the purpose of an assertion that "Condi will not save the day"????

Do you want to debate with imbeciles? Please go back to the other part of the forum if you want discussions of that kind.

halva

08-10-2007, 04:36 AM

Climate of intolerance

Newsweek has used climate change as its cover story this week, under the title 'The truth about denial'. The gist of the argument is that there is a well-funded 'denial industry' which seeks to undermine the sound scientific basis for the prevailing concerns about human-induced climate change. Parallels are drawn with the tobacco industry lobby and, of course, all this is said to be taking place in the name of private profit.

This is the latest example of a deeply disturbing trend towards intolerance of dissenters, which has even led to some commentators suggesting Nuremberg-style trials of 'climate criminals'. Such a febrile atmosphere is not conducive to rational thinking or discussion, so let's take a deep breath, count to ten, and look at some of the facts.

First, there are undoubtedly a few extremists around on both sides of the argument, who may choose to overemphasize their arguments and indulge in personal attacks on those who disagree with them. On the sceptical side, there will undoubtedly also be some people who question that climate is changing, but the vast majority of those who do not agree with the IPCC orthodoxy are concerned only with the certainty with which increased carbon dioxide levels are assigned the role of primary culprit. The term 'denier', with its overtones of the Holocaust, is both inappropriate and offensive.

And as for Big Oil funding spurious studies, we have surely moved on from there. The great majority of companies have embraced the new reality of climate change policy and, like all good capitalists, looked for ways to benefit from it. With demand for energy and fossil fuels continuing to grow seemingly inexorably, the problem for most oil companies is fulfilling demand rather than trying to create more. On a more fundamental level, although we should of course look at who is funding a particular study, this should not mean it is automatically dismissed. Environmental activists are not known for the objectivity of their studies - they seem to work on the basis of the end justifying the means - but nuggets of truth can be found there as well. Professional scientists should do a professional job whoever is paying them.

There is a natural tendency for the scientific establishment to close ranks to defend the consensus view of the particular topical issue of the time. After all, as they say, no-one likes to see a beautiful theory spoilt by ugly facts. But the issue of climate change has brought things to a new pitch. When GM food was making headlines on a daily basis, this was largely on the basis of opposition from activist groups; the vast majority of scientists were happy that this was a safe and well-regulated technology.

Now - almost uniquely - environmental activists are aligned with the scientific mainstream. NGOs need no longer attack critics: the Royal Society will do this for them. For good measure, Newsweek and other media are willing to print scurrilous, one-sided views. Fortunately, since much of the media thrives on controversy, some broadcasters and papers are still willing to give dissenting voices an outlet. The problem is that, all too often, they are not looking for nuanced views or constructive criticism, but for more extreme positions which only serve to polarise the argument.

The most worrying aspect of this is the apparent desire to close down debate. When Margaret Beckett, in her position as Environment Secretary, called for the media not to allow sceptics to have their views aired, surely this represented a step too far for the politicisation of an issue. Fortunately, the UK press, despite its rather obvious faults, is still free to print what it likes.

Let's go back to the issue of GM foods. Imagine the furore if a government minister, acting on the best scientific advice, had called for environmentalists not to be given airtime or column inches because 'the science is settled'. What an outcry that would have caused, and quite rightly, because it inches towards state censorship. But when the issue is climate change, the only people who seem to be concerned about this are the people whose views are in danger of being suppressed.

To repeat our position for the umpteenth time: The Scientific Alliance does not think that the prevailing IPCC view on the role of greenhouse gases is necessarily wrong. However, the evidence for it is circumstantial, there are a number of pieces of conflicting evidence, and alternative hypotheses have not all been properly evaluated. In the meantime, a complex, costly (and, at present, fairly ineffectual) set of policies for reduction of carbon intensity has been introduced. There is a danger that many countries are going further down what may prove to be a major policy cul-de-sac.

In these circumstances, people who have legitimate concerns to raise have an obligation to speak out. Constructive questioning of hypotheses serves to strengthen ones which are right and cause wrong ones to fail. How can scientists possibly object to that?

The Scientific Alliance
St John's Innovation Centre, Cowley Road, Cambridge CB4 0WS
Tel: +44 1223 421242

halva

08-19-2007, 09:27 PM

Who has noticed the "What you can do about climate change" advertising campaign of the Environmental Defense NGO
http://www.environmentaldefense.org/home.cfm

which has the boy with the respirator asking "Mommy will I always have asthma". ????

Who is going to ask Environmental Defense about the connection between climate change and asthma???

You can see these ads on the Yahoo e-mail server.

Boomer Chick

08-26-2007, 02:52 PM

Google News Alert for: global warming

Latest round of UN climate talks focuses on business end of global ... (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/26/europe/EU-GEN-UN-Climate-Conference.php)
International Herald Tribune - France
AP VIENNA, Austria: Now that scientists have documented the potentially catastrophic consequences of global warming, experts are tackling the business end. ...
[/URL]
(http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/26/europe/EU-GEN-UN-Climate-Conference.php)
Global warming kills fish, boat captain says (http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/story/169160.html)
Myrtle Beach Sun News - Myrtle Beach,SC,USA
Kipnis spoke at the request of state environmental groups trying to raise awareness about global warming. Kipnis, who has worked with former Vice President ...

Lawmaker pushes Task Force Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/story/169160.html)
Sun.Star - Philippines
1775 aimed at creating a special task force to conduct an urgent and extensive inquiry on the seriously alarming consequences of global warming to address ...

Global warming puts beach suburbs under threat (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/pam/2007/08/26/news/lawmaker.pushes.task.force.global.warming.html)
NEWS.com.au - Australia
By Saffron Howden NORTH Cronulla's Surf Life Saving Club and an entire row of water-front houses at the famous Sydney beach could be under water by the end ...

Activist stresses effects of global warming in India (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,22311299-5001021,00.html)
Zee News - Noida,India
Ahmedabad, Aug 26: Aiming to draw attention to the harmful effects of global warming, an environmental activist from Gujarat participated in a campaign in ...

On FNC, AccuWeather's Bastardi Argues Against Blaming Global ... (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp%3Faid%3D391095%26ssid%3D26%26ssname%3 DEco%2520News%26sid%3DENV%26sname%3D)
NewsBusters - USA
O'Reilly: "Of course, environmentalists are going to say this is global warming. And is the fact that the waters are warmer, is that going to make it a ...

Ignore The Global Warming Wackos (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2007/08/26/fnc-accuweathers-bastardi-argues-against-blaming-global-warming-hurri)
The Chattanoogan - Chattanooga,TN,USA
I always find it difficult to understand why some fall for the hoax concerning the global warming. Then they state for a fact that we are responsible for it ...

Global Warming or Global Governance? (DVD) (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_112181.asp)
WorldNetDaily - Grants Pass,OR,USA
It also provides evidence that the global warming agenda is being funded with tens of billions of dollars as a mechanism to create global governance. ...

Global warming just another scare tactic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp%3FITEM_ID%3D2145)
Journal and Courier - Lafayette,IN,USA
The crazy climate of today puts me in mind to step onto the soapbox and discuss my current "conservation" hot button issue: global warming. ...
[URL="http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.jconline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20070826/COLUMNISTS19/708260344"]

halva

08-28-2007, 10:18 PM

http://www.desmogblog.com/a-desmogblog-exclusive-investigation-into-nasas-dscovr-climate-station

DeSmogBlog exclusive investigation into NASA's DSCOVR climate station
27 Aug 07

Somewhere in Maryland is a metal box containing a fully completed climate spacecraft that could save the world.

NASA’s Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR) cost over $100 million and was designed to measure the energy budget of our warming planet. Yet the spacecraft has remained in its box for the last five years and it looks like it is not going anywhere anytime soon.

NASA quietly cancelled the project altogether in January 2006 citing “competing priorities”.

What happened? How could the US government possibly justify killing DSCOVR given the importance of climate change and after over 90% of the project expenses had already been incurred? What role did petty partisan politics play in this? Did the oil lobby have any influence on this decision?

Over the next few months I am going to be digging into the history of DSCOVR, the reasons why it was cancelled, and why NASA refuses to release any internal documents on the decision to kill the mission.

But first, some background on why DSCOVR is so important and why it is not your average climate satellite.

In fact, DSCOVR is not a satellite at all. It was designed to be sent far beyond the orbit of Earth to a unique parking spot in space, four times as far away as the moon. This “L1 Lagrangian point” was to be DSCOVR’s home, a gravity-neutral point between our planet and the Sun. If a spacecraft is put there, it stays put, 1.5 million kilometers away tracking the exact orbit of our planet around the Sun.

From this unique vantage, the scientific instruments on DSCOVR would gaze back towards Earth, allowing us for the first time ever to measure the energy budget of the entire plant. This critical data would help calibrate climate models as well as measurements from other climate spacecraft that have collectively cost hundreds of millions of dollars.

The Earth’s temperature is a delicate balance between the amount of energy retained by the atmosphere and the amount being reflected back into space. This second number is called “albedo” and it is vitally important to scientists trying to develop reliable computer models on our changing climate. DSCOVR would provide vastly improved measurements of the Earth’s albedo because from L1, it would be able to continuously observe the entire sunlit disc of our planet.

Interestingly, a common complaint of climate change deniers has been that the satellite data used to develop climate models is unreliable. DSCOVR would go a long way to settling whatever honest debate remained about the reliability of those models.

Considering that these climate models are now driving enormous public policy decisions, one would think that DSCOVR would be a top priority. It certainly has been a priority of other governments. The French were so alarmed by the foot dragging by NASA they offered to send DSCOVR into space themselves at a greatly reduced cost. The Ukranian government even offered to launch DSCOVR for free aboard a Tsyklon IV rocket – the most reliable launch vehicle in the world.

The response from NASA? No thanks.

Something seems rotten in the state of Maryland.

Next posting: how this mission, originally inspired by Al Gore, may have become fatally mired in beltway politics.

Note: the DeSmogBlog team welcomes writer and researcher Mitchell Anderson to the team. Over the next few months Mitchell will be writing an investigative series on the US administration's mothballing of the Deep Space Climate Observatory (DSCOVR).

halva

08-31-2007, 02:54 AM

Global Warming Might Spur Earthquakes and Volcanoes
By Andrea Thompson, LiveScience Staff Writer

posted: 30 August 2007 08:57 am ET

http://www.livescience.com/environment/070830_gw_quakes.html

Earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis and landslides are some of the additional catastrophes that climate change and its rising sea levels and melting glaciers could bring, a geologist says.

The impact of human-induced global warming on Earth's ice and oceans is already noticeable: Greenland's glaciers are melting at an increasing rate, and sea level rose by a little more than half a foot (0.17 meters) globally in the 20th century, according to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

With these trends in ice cover and sea level only expected to continue and likely worsen if atmospheric carbon dioxide levels continue to rise, they could alter the stresses and forces fighting for balance in the ground under our feet—changes that are well-documented in studies of past climate change, but which are just beginning to be studied as possible consequences of the current state of global warming.

"Although they've described it in the past, nobody's thought about it in terms of future effects of climate change," said Bill McGuire of the University College London's Hazard Research Center.

McGuire's speculations of increased geological activity have not yet been published in a journal, but he has written an article about them published in the Guardian Unlimited.

Rebounding crust

One particular feature that can change the balance of forces in Earth's crust is ice, in the form of glaciers and ice sheets that cover much of the area around Earth's poles plus mountains at all latitudes. The weight of ice depresses the crust on which it sits.

As the ice melts, the crust below no longer has anything sitting on top of it, and so can rebound fairly rapidly (by geological standards). (This rebounding is actually occurring now as a result of the end of the last Ice Age: The retreat of massive ice sheets from the northern United States and Canada has allowed the crust in these areas to bounce back.)

Areas of rebounding crust could change the stresses acting on earthquake faults and volcanoes in the crust.

"In places like Iceland, for example, where you have the Eyjafjallajökull ice sheet, which wouldn't survive [global warming], and you've got lots of volcanoes under that, the unloading effect can trigger eruptions," McGuire said.

With the changing dynamics in the crust, faults could also be destabilized, which could bring a whole host of other problems.

"It's not just the volcanoes. Obviously if you load and unload active faults, then you're liable to trigger earthquakes," McGuire told LiveScience, noting that there is ample evidence for this association in past climate change events.

"At the end of the last Ice Age, there was a great increase in seismicity along the margins of the ice sheets in Scandinavia and places like this, and that triggered these huge submarine landsides which generated tsunamis," McGuire said. "So you've got the whole range of geological hazards there that can result from if we see this big catastrophic melting."

Roland Burgmann, a geologist at the University of California, Berkeley, agrees that changes in ice cover can have significant effects on the underlying crust, but says that more research needs to be done to determine the actual scale of the threat and where the effects are most likely to occur.

Water pressure

Ice melt can have an added consequence because all that melted ice has to go somewhere—namely, the ocean.

And ice melt won't be the only factor changing sea levels: as ocean temperatures rise, the water itself expands (a process called thermal expansion).

As all that extra water piles up, it could apply pressure to faults near coastlines.

"The added load of the water bends the crust, and that means that you tend to get tensional conditions in the upper part of the crust and compressional a bit lower down, just as if you bend a plank of wood or something," McGuire explained.

These compressional forces could push out any magma lying around underneath a volcano, triggering an eruption. (This mechanism is actually believed to be the cause of the seasonal eruptions of Alaska's Pavlof volcano, which erupts every winter when sea levels are higher.)

McGuire conducted a study that was published in the journal Nature in 1997 that looked at the connection between the change in the rate of sea level rise and volcanic activity in the Mediterranean for the past 80,000 years and found that when sea level rose quickly, more volcanic eruptions occurred, increasing by a whopping 300 percent.

If today's worst-case global warming scenarios of catastrophic melting of glaciers and ice sheets come to pass, sea levels could rise rapidly, wreaking all sorts of geological havoc "comparable with the most rapid increases in sea level that we've seen in the last 15,000 years," McGuire said.

Burgmann isn't too worried about sea level rise causing more earthquakes or volcanic eruptions though, noting that catastrophic rates of sea level rise in the future are uncertain and that the current rate of rise—about 0.12 inches per year (3 millimeters per year)—isn't enough to destabilize the crust.

"It would take a long time to add up to a significant amount," Burgmann said—so while it's an area of research to keep an eye on, it's unlikely to have any disastrous consequences, at least for now.

Boomer Chick

09-03-2007, 09:42 PM

Google News Alert for: global warming
Are you getting accurate global warming data? (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-fumento_02edi.ART.State.Edition1.423a5ec.html)
Dallas Morning News (subscription) - TX,USA
This is not evidence that global warming itself is "a scientific hoax," as some have declared. Conversely, global warming hardliners are just as wrong to ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-fumento_02edi.ART.State.Edition1.423a5ec.html)
[/URL]
Studies say global warming will destroy Napa vineyards (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-fumento_02edi.ART.State.Edition1.423a5ec.html)
Vallejo Times-Herald - Vallejo,CA,USA
(Courtesy photo/Jack Neal & Son Vineyard Management) When global warming turns the world into an overheated, apocalyptic nightmare, where on Earth will you ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.timesheraldonline.com/ci_6786741)

RI fourth biggest contributor to global warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.timesheraldonline.com/ci_6786741)
Jakarta Post - Jakarta,Indonesia
MAKASSAR (Antara): Indonesia has been ranked in the fourth position in the list of the biggest contributor countries to the global warming as a result of ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailgeneral.asp%3Ffileid%3D20070901145806%26irec %3D0)

Global warming disrupts Inuit hunting life (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailgeneral.asp%3Ffileid%3D20070901145806%26irec %3D0)
Shanghai Daily - Shanghai,China
By John McConnico 2007-9-3 Global warming has melted Greenland's glaciers, disturbed animal life and disrupted the hunting ways of the Inuit people. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2007/200709/20070903/article_329615.htm)

New Study From NASA Predicts More Severe Storms With Global Warming (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2007/200709/20070903/article_329615.htm)
DailyTech - Chicago,IL,USA
This model was applied to a global warming scenario to give a possible peek at what future weather might look like. NASA's Goddard Institute for Space ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.dailytech.com/New%2BStudy%2BFrom%2BNASA%2BPredicts%2BMore%2BSeve re%2BStorms%2BWith%2BGlobal%2BWarming/article8701.htm)

[URL="http://www.metro.co.uk/news/climatewatch/article.html?in_article_id=64424&in_page_id=59"]How global warming is changing our maps (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.dailytech.com/New%2BStudy%2BFrom%2BNASA%2BPredicts%2BMore%2BSeve re%2BStorms%2BWith%2BGlobal%2BWarming/article8701.htm)
Metro - London,UK
The effects of global climate change are altering the face of the planet - and its maps - according to a leading atlas. Cartographers have been forced to ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.metro.co.uk/news/climatewatch/article.html%3Fin_article_id%3D64424%26in_page_id% 3D59)

Lou

09-06-2007, 06:48 PM

I remember not so long ago, climate researchers and scientist claimed that we would not see any major reduction in the Arctic Ice Pack for hundreds of years,... Oop's,...........Now there singing a different tune.
_________________________________________________

http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?ID=6605&Method=Full

Loss of Arctic ice leaves experts stunned

The Guardian (UK) Sept. 4, 2007

The Arctic ice cap has collapsed at an unprecedented rate this summer and levels of sea ice in the region now stand at record lows, scientists have announced.

Experts say they are "stunned" by the loss of ice, with an area almost twice as big as the UK disappearing in the last week alone.

So much ice has melted this summer that the Northwest passage across the top of Canada is fully navigable, and observers say the Northeast passage along Russia's Arctic coast could open later this month.

If the increased rate of melting continues, the summertime Arctic could be totally free of ice by 2030.

Mark Serreze, an Arctic specialist at the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre at Colorado University in Denver, said: "It's amazing. It's simply fallen off a cliff and we're still losing ice."

The Arctic has now lost about a third of its ice since satellite measurements began thirty years ago, and the rate of loss has accelerated sharply since 2002.

Dr Serreze said: "If you asked me a couple of years ago when the Arctic could lose all of its ice then I would have said 2100, or 2070 maybe. But now I think that 2030 is a reasonable estimate. It seems that the Arctic is going to be a very different place within our lifetimes, and certainly within our childrens' lifetimes."

The new figures show that sea ice extent is currently down to 4.4m square kilometres (1.7m square miles) and still falling.

The previous record low was 5.3m square kilometres in September 2005. From 1979 to 2000 the average sea ice extent was 7.7m square kilometres.

The sea ice usually melts in the Arctic summer and freezes again in the winter. But Dr Serreze said that would be difficult this year.

"This summer we've got all this open water and added heat going into the ocean. That is going to make it much harder for the ice to grow back."

Changes in wind and ocean circulation patterns can help reduce sea ice extent, but Dr Serreze said the main culprit was man-made global warming.

"The rules are starting to change and what's changing the rules is the input of greenhouse gases."

halva

09-06-2007, 08:14 PM

halva

09-08-2007, 10:46 PM

The BBC and Planet Relief

After what seems to have been a degree of heart-searching, the BBC has backed out of plans to run a 'Planet Relief' TV special on climate change next January. This was intended to 'raise awareness' of the issues, in a similar way to Live8, which sought to increase concern about global poverty.

The reasons for the Beeb's change of mind are not entirely clear. The official spokeswoman said that it had nothing to do with concerns raised by some commentators about impartiality. In her words 'BBC One aims to bring a mass audience to contemporary and relevant issues, and this includes the topic of climate change. Our audiences tell us they are most receptive to documentary or factual style programming as a means of learning about issues surrounding this subject, and as part of this learning we have made the decision not to proceed with the Planet Relief event. Instead we will focus our energies on a range of factual programmes on the important and complex subject of climate change. This decision was not made in light of the recent debate about impartiality.'

But it seems that senior news editors would beg to differ. Peter Horrocks, head of TV news, wrote in the BBC's own editors' blog 'It is not the BBC's job to lead opinion or proselytise on this or any other subject.' In a similar vein, Peter Barron, the Newsnight editor, remarked at the Edinburgh Festival 'It is not the BBC's job to save the planet.' Well said, both Peters.

Whatever the motivation (and to us, it is difficult to believe that the decision was not influenced by a degree of discomfort at being seen to promote a campaign), it has not been universally welcomed. Mark Lynas, environmental campaigner, for one, is quoted as saying 'This decision shows a real poverty of understanding among senior BBC executives about the gravity of the situation we face. The only reason this became an issue is that there is a small but vociferous group of climate sceptics lobbying against taking action, so the BBC is behaving like a coward and refusing to take a more consistent stance.'

Which just goes to show that the BBC was absolutely right to pull the programme. Hard-line environmentalists seem to view the media purely as channels for their own views, and deviation from this is unacceptable to them. This is becoming positively Stalinist. And we prefer to believe less in the existence of a 'small but vociferous group of climate sceptics' whose lobbying success seems to be out of all proportion to their size (though doubtless funded by some international capitalist conspiracy) and more in the ability of rational people to understand that there is a range of views on both the science of climate change and the policy options necessary to address it.

Just because a person believes something to be right does not make it fact. The BBC should have no role in promoting belief as fact.

NGO lobbying in Brussels

It was recently reported that the European Commission was the main contributor to the finances of Friends of the Earth Europe, an NGO whose role is to lobby the Commission (and other EU institutions). Does the Commission want someone else to tell us it is doing the right thing, or is this just a hypocritical piece of window dressing? Knowing Brussels , it is certainly not as simple as that, but it undoubtedly seems like a poor use of taxpayers' money.

Now (well, last week, to be precise) comes a survey on EU lobbying by European Voice. This quote may make the reason for the FoE International funding clearer: 'Environmental NGOs appear to have had more success than development NGOs...Apart from running effective campaigns, a consensus has built up around the environmental agenda which is broadly supported by the EU institutions. Successive environmental commissioners have also been close to the environmental lobby groups and have been effective at batting off corporate interest groups which can be opposed to environment-friendly policies.' (our italics).

So there you have it: environmental NGOs are preaching to the converted. What they should recognise, however, is that the 'consensus' exists in the cosy world of EU officialdom and NGOs rather than among all citizens and also that 'corporate interest groups' are not opposed to good environmental policies, but may disagree with some things which environmental lobby groups hold dear. Unfortunately, if these dynamics continue to play out, we will see a continuing tide of highly precautionary, increasingly stringent and largely unnecessary legislation.

'Climate models prove more reliable'

Climateprediction.net is a large-scale experiment which uses spare time on people's personal computers to run climate models with a range of starting assumptions. The results from 57,000 model runs have been analysed by a team led by Dr Christopher Knight from the University of Manchester , together with colleagues from Oxford University and the Met Office. Sylvia Knights from Oxford gave an interview to environmentalresearchweb.org, under the somewhat misleading title 'Climate models prove more reliable'.

The reliability aspect turns out to be for the distributed computing itself: the team concluded that the hardware on which the model was run had very little influence on the final result. That is simply that the climate model ran as it should. To quote '...the effects of some of the numbers - for example those to do with how to represent a cloud in the computer model - turned out to be very important'. Good. That's what models are supposed to do: show possible effects of different variables. It still doesn't make them real, and results generated should still be treated with caution.

The mystery of the disappearing bees

Colony Collapse Disorder is the term used to describe a mysterious loss of enormous numbers of bee colonies in recent years. It is estimated that between 50 and 90% of commercial colonies in the USA have been lost in the last three years, although other regions have also been affected.

Because the cause is unknown, a range of environmental bêtes noires have been postulated as the culprit: mobile phones, pesticides, genetically modified crops and climate change. However, it now seems that a specific virus - Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus - is the only one which emerges from genetic screening as being present in collapsed colonies but not healthy ones. Of course, this is not necessarily the end of the story; the presence of this virus may be an indicator or a secondary cause. Nevertheless, the search for a cause seems to be progressing. Science beats knee-jerk reactions any day.

The Scientific Alliance

Lou

09-09-2007, 02:34 PM

Would it not suit some interests to have an ice-free Arctic?

Of course it would Wayne, we know that there are those opportunist types that are willing to exploit any situation, those that would do so for profit as the Arctic ice melt's away are no different than those that would do it as we wage a war on a country that never attacked us.

halva

09-09-2007, 08:24 PM

Yes, but as with 911, the question is also ARE THEY DOING IT THEMSELVES? (Did they do it themselves?).

Lou

09-10-2007, 04:42 PM

Yes, but as with 911, the question is also ARE THEY DOING IT THEMSELVES? (Did they do it themselves?).

Those questions are still very much open given that 64% of Americans polled to date would like to see an independent investigation into the events that led up to 9/11.

I've not spoken to one single person that believes in the 9/11 commission report.

weatherman714

09-10-2007, 08:11 PM

How can we know how much of this is "anthropogenic"? Of course I am not using this term in the way it is used in the red herring dispute with the climate contrarians. Would it not suit some interests to have an ice-free Arctic?

Like I said the Russians modify the weather through chemtrails, not scalar. The majority of the ice that has melted is Russian Ice. North American and Greenland ice reported little change from last year. The Russians have a weather modification project and they are using it to bring to light the visions of their past leaders. They hated that the Arctic Ocean was frozen. Once the Arctic Ice is mostly gone and I'm saying under 1million sq miles during the summer, the weather patterns will change drastically... I think they are unleashing an ice age.

halva

09-11-2007, 03:13 AM

I've not spoken to one single person that believes in the 9/11 commission report.

There are quite a few of them in the other part of this forum.

halva

09-11-2007, 04:02 AM

http://www.german-times.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1159&Itemid=1

A coalition of good will’
Politics

“Natural partners” in protecting the climate: Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank-Walter Steinmeier.

German foreign minister Steinmeier wins environmental allies in California – By Petra Pinzler
Frank-Walter Steinmeier and California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger have joined forces to tackle the causes of climate change. They also see German and Californian companies as “natural partners” in this business.

What do polar bears, trains, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and German solar tech companies have in common? After a couple of days of traveling with German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier the answer is easy: They are all affected by climate change.

“In a world that is increasingly interlinked we not only share our vulnerability, we will also realize that events in one part of the world affect the other parts, too. There are no isolated areas anymore. Only together will we be able to tackle the central challenges mankind faces,” Steinmeier said.

Yet the foreign minister’s trip from Berlin to California via Norway was not meant just to discuss climate issues. With his visit he also wanted to win new American allies. Steinmeier was promoting concerted action to tackle the effects of global warming. He urged politicians, scientists, and the business communities of California and Europe to work together in innovative ways to develop common strategies for reducing air pollution.

California, which is perceived in Germany as a global leader in cutting-edge environmental policy, proved to be the right place to go. Schwarzenegger praised Germany for its “great leadership when it comes to protecting the environment.” And after a private meeting with the governor, Steinmeier announced that both sides “decided to push for an agenda that links and harmonizes our emission trading systems.”

As a result, in the months to come, California and the EU will open talks about how to link their different systems that allow companies to sell and buy CO2 emissions with the aim of reducing the overall amount of pollution. Schwarzenegger also promised to visit Europe soon to further strengthen the links between the new climate protection allies.

Steinmeier’s trip demonstrated how seriously the German government takes environmental and energy policy. First he stopped at Norwegian polar station Ny Alesund to personally survey the dramatic effects of climate change. He saw glaciers that had retreated significantly and other effects of the worldwide rise in temperatures, and heard about the serious consequences of vanishing pack ice for the natural habitat of bears and other arctic animals.

With these images fresh in his mind, Steinmeier arrived in California to build what he termed a “coalition of goodwill.” With Europe and the White House still largely at odds on how to approach the problem of greenhouse emissions, the German foreign minister obviously believes that cooperation with individual U.S. states offers better prospects for progress.

Firmly believing in the necessity of setting political standards in order to create new eco-friendly energy markets, Steinmeier found attentive listeners in the governor’s office and elsewhere. The California Senate showed a keen interest in German legislation promoting energy from renewable sources. About 50,000 jobs have been created in Germany’s renewable energy industry.

Steinmeier, the first German foreign minister in 50 years to visit California, was accompanied by a group of German business leaders who helped him lobby for the environment. Steinmeier praised them as a part of his coalition. He believes that “only with new technology” will we be able to tackle the dangers of climate change.

“Renewable energies are a smarter way than soldiers, tanks, and missiles to make conflict over oil and gas superfluous,” the foreign minister said.

Steinmeier believes German and Californian companies are “natural partners” in this business. Therefore he encouraged more cooperation between green tech companies of both sides.

Steinmeier also gave Schwarzenegger a tip for a visit to Germany. Promoting German public transport he invited the governor, whose state is contemplating a new high-speed rail connection between San Diego and San Francisco, to take a ride on Germany’s flagship express train, the Intercity Express. For Steinmeier the link between polar bears and trains comes naturally.

– Petra Pinzler is the Brussels correspondent for the weekly newspaper, Die Zeit.

Lou

09-11-2007, 09:54 AM

There are quite a few of them in the other part of this forum.

Hmmmm,... all Right Wignut Neo-Con Fanatic Bush supporters no doubt. :rolleyes:

halva

09-11-2007, 11:55 AM

Did I post this before??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFb2U8C0gBY

halva

09-13-2007, 10:18 AM

A 30 minute film of the July 2007 climate camp in Britain, edited from material shot on
camp by indymedia type media activists working with the climate camp.

Watch it online here

http://www.archive.org/details/climatecampfilm2007

halva

01-01-2008, 10:07 PM

The Church in its time-honoured role.

The Pope condemns the climate change prophets of doom
By SIMON CALDWELL - More by this author »Last updated at 11:01am on 13th December 2007
Comments

Attack: Pope Benedict criticised climate-change prophets of doom
Pope Benedict XVI has launched a surprise attack on climate change prophets of doom, warning them that any solutions to global warming must be based on firm evidence and not on dubious ideology.

The leader of more than a billion Roman Catholics suggested that fears over man-made emissions melting the ice caps and causing a wave of unprecedented disasters were nothing more than scare-mongering.

The German-born Pontiff said that while some concerns may be valid it was vital that the international community based its policies on science rather than the dogma of the environmentalist movement.

His remarks will be made in his annual message for World Peace Day on January 1, but they were released as delegates from all over the world convened on the Indonesian holiday island of Bali for UN climate change talks.

The 80-year-old Pope said the world needed to care for the environment but not to the point where the welfare of animals and plants was given a greater priority than that of mankind.

Adrift: Polar bears on melting iceberg
"Humanity today is rightly concerned about the ecological balance of tomorrow," he said in the message entitled "The Human Family, A Community of Peace".

"It is important for assessments in this regard to be carried out prudently, in dialogue with experts and people of wisdom, uninhibited by ideological pressure to draw hasty conclusions, and above all with the aim of reaching agreement on a model of sustainable development capable of ensuring the well-being of all while respecting environmental balances.

"If the protection of the environment involves costs, they should be justly distributed, taking due account of the different levels of development of various countries and the need for solidarity with future generations.

Read more...
'Polars bears on the brink? Don't you believe it'
EU squares off to US in Bali: Accept emissions targets or we boycott American climate talks
World told to act now on climate change as 'Arctic is screaming'
"Prudence does not mean failing to accept responsibilities and postponing decisions; it means being committed to making joint decisions after pondering responsibly the road to be taken."

Efforts to protect the environment should seek "agreement on a model of sustainable development capable of ensuring the well-being of all while respecting environmental balances", the Pope said.

He added that to further the cause of world peace it was sensible for nations to "choose the path of dialogue rather than the path of unilateral decisions" in how to cooperate responsibly on conserving the planet.

The Pope's message is traditionally sent to heads of government and international organisations.

His remarks reveal that while the Pope acknowledges that problems may be associated with unbridled development and climate change, he believes the case against global warming to be over-hyped.

A broad consensus is developing among the world's scientific community over the evils of climate change.

But there is also an intransigent body of scientific opinion which continues to insist that industrial emissions are not to blame for the phenomenon.

Such scientists point out that fluctuations in the earth's temperature are normal and can often be caused by waves of heat generated by the sun. Other critics of environmentalism have compared the movement to a burgeoning industry in its own right.

In the spring, the Vatican hosted a conference on climate change that was welcomed by environmentalists.

But senior cardinals close to the Vatican have since expressed doubts about a movement which has been likened by critics to be just as dogmatic in its assumptions as any religion.

In October, the Australian Cardinal George Pell, the Archbishop of Sydney, caused an outcry when he noted that the atmospheric temperature of Mars had risen by 0.5 degrees celsius.

"The industrial-military complex up on Mars can't be blamed for that," he said in a criticism of Australian scientists who had claimed that carbon emissions would force temperatures on earth to rise by almost five degrees by 2070 unless drastic solutions were enforced.

Boomer Chick

01-08-2008, 08:59 PM

Hey Lou!

I'm a bit disgruntled with discussing "politics" and wish to get off the merry-go-round. I've decided to post here for the foreseeable future and would like to get your impression of the discussion down here so I can catch up? I can't spend too much time at the computer due to my spine, but it's slowly improving as I build muscle, stretch, and spend less time sitting.

I was curious about old Scott Stevens so I visited his website and discovered he has started a new one with videos. He hasn't dropped the subject of weather manipulation AT ALL. His project termed, The Shift, begins here and I wish I had an ipod.

http://www.scottstevens.org/

Anytime you would like to start a discussion...let me know. OK?

BC

Dingo

01-08-2008, 11:55 PM

The Church in its time-honoured role.
Attack: Pope Benedict criticised climate-change prophets of doom
Pope Benedict XVI has launched a surprise attack on climate change prophets of doom, warning them that any solutions to global warming must be based on firm evidence and not on dubious ideology.

The leader of more than a billion Roman Catholics suggested that fears over man-made emissions melting the ice caps and causing a wave of unprecedented disasters were nothing more than scare-mongering.

The German-born Pontiff said that while some concerns may be valid it was vital that the international community based its policies on science rather than the dogma of the environmentalist movement.

His remarks will be made in his annual message for World Peace Day on January 1, but they were released as delegates from all over the world convened on the Indonesian holiday island of Bali for UN climate change talks.

The 80-year-old Pope said the world needed to care for the environment but not to the point where the welfare of animals and plants was given a greater priority than that of mankind.
Yeah, let's kick the shit out of the environment and other species, that will show our love of mankind.

DUMBASS!

"It is important for assessments in this regard to be carried out prudently, in dialogue with experts and people of wisdom, uninhibited by ideological pressure to draw hasty conclusions, and above all with the aim of reaching agreement on a model of sustainable development capable of ensuring the well-being of all while respecting environmental balances.

"If the protection of the environment involves costs, they should be justly distributed, taking due account of the different levels of development of various countries and the need for solidarity with future generations.Jeeesh, this stuff puts me to sleep. Hire some better writers Pope baby.

He added that to further the cause of world peace it was sensible for nations to "choose the path of dialogue rather than the path of unilateral decisions" in how to cooperate responsibly on conserving the planet.
How about a little democratic dialogue in the Catholic Church.

senior cardinals close to the Vatican have since expressed doubts about a movement which has been likened by critics to be just as dogmatic in its assumptions as any religion.
I know that game, call AGW a religion a faith. You see it all the time on these forums. The science is simply ignored by these clowns.

In October, the Australian Cardinal George Pell, the Archbishop of Sydney, caused an outcry when he noted that the atmospheric temperature of Mars had risen by 0.5 degrees celsius.

"The industrial-military complex up on Mars can't be blamed for that," he said in a criticism of Australian scientists who had claimed that carbon emissions would force temperatures on earth to rise by almost five degrees by 2070 unless drastic solutions were enforced.
Was there anybody around to tell him he was a nutcase?

halva

01-09-2008, 04:11 AM

halva

01-09-2008, 04:15 AM

Yeah, let's kick the shit out of the environment and other species, that will show our love of mankind.

DUMBASS!

Jeeesh, this stuff puts me to sleep. Hire some better writers Pope baby.

How about a little democratic dialogue in the Catholic Church.

I know that game, call AGW a religion a faith. You see it all the time on these forums. The science is simply ignored by these clowns.

Was there anybody around to tell him he was a nutcase?

The Ecumenical Patriarch has never taken "sceptic" positions on climate change. It seems they are relying on other devices to keep us in line here in Greece.

Boomer Chick

01-09-2008, 01:50 PM

Oh really, Halva? I just posted with him up in Current Events and he said he was looking forward to some discussions in the New Year.

Maybe he thinks I'll be posting in Current Events?

I saw he was online last night.

I'll just have to PM him.

How are you, Halva? It's nice that you keep things going down here. I noticed JR had posted a bit.

:)

halva

01-09-2008, 11:03 PM

halva

01-10-2008, 01:13 PM

The science is simply ignored by these clowns.

Dingo, the sceptics, aided and abetted by the Pope, pooh-pooh climate change.

You pooh-pooh chemtrails.

The audience laughs when David Keith tries to tell them how badly we need some chemtrails to deal with climate change.
http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/192

Where does all this leave us?

Boomer Chick

01-11-2008, 02:18 PM

I am just repeating what Lou said.

If he wants to start posting here again I can't stop him, but one of the side effects if he does could be that Jay Reynolds and/or Jeff Reynolds will start up again.

There are plenty of moderated forums about where any discussion you might want to have with Lou could probably be carried on without the noise that can always resume here from one second to the next.

In Current Events they might leave you unmolested also. As long as you don't talk about "chemtrails" and confine yourself to the conventional climate change sceptic vs climate change true believer arguments.

Oh really? Gee, I didn't know. Actually am tired of discussing politics and political events. Period. I'm just tired. I'm not necessarily being molested....I'm just tired.

I would rather discuss science topics than political topics although I realize the two often overlap.

It's up to me, totally, in which forum I shall post.

Did you notice the odd weather on our continent, Halva?

halva

01-11-2008, 10:08 PM

Perhaps it's a discussion you're looking for with Lou.

With me you're looking for an argument.

halva

01-11-2008, 10:46 PM

If you really want an argument, rather than arguing with me, why don't you argue with Marvin (Orion Arm Theory of Mass Extinction), who is in the camp of our opponents?

foot_soldier

01-12-2008, 08:25 AM

January 12, 2008
Dog-sledding, like climate, heating up
Racers, tourists follow snow north or join the sport's dry-land aficionados
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22620875/

JUKKASJARVI, Sweden - Sixty Alaskan Huskies yipped and yelped and howled on a frozen river 120 miles north of the Arctic Circle, itching to run.

The dogs, five teams of 12, tugged impatiently at harnesses tethering them to wooden sleds, where 20 tourists -- from Britain, Portugal, Denmark and the United States -- sat in insulated snowsuits, bracing themselves against subzero temperatures and wind. Then the sled drivers shouted, "Hike! Hike!" and the dogs started pulling and fell silent.

"They are happy when they run," said Kalle Leissner, a bearded Swedish musher whose dog teams are part of a global boom in sled-dog racing and tourism that stretches from the snowy woods of Alaska to the sandy Outback of Australia.

Tens of thousands of people in dozens of countries compete in dog-sled racing on snow and, farther south, in proliferating events known as "dry land" races, in which dogs pull bikes or scooters -- or even runners, according to the International Federation of Sleddog Sports. Warming climates, thinning out the snow, have helped drive interest in dry-land competitions in places not normally associated with dogs and sleds, such as Argentina, New Zealand and Mongolia.

Tens of thousands more people, meanwhile, are traveling as tourists to the world's far north -- including Alaska, Canada, Norway, Sweden and Finland -- to spend a few hours or days being towed by teams of dogs.

...

Globally, 40,000 people competed in races in 2003, the most recent estimate, said Sally O'Sullivan Bair, an official with the International Federation of Sleddog Sports, a rise from 25,000 in 1997.

Norway and Sweden have traditionally been Europe's most active dog-sledding nations, followed by France and Germany, said Lars Svanfeldt, president of the European Sled Dog Racing Association, which has clubs in 19 countries. The fastest growth has been in Poland, the Czech Republic and other Eastern European nations.

But changing climate conditions bedevil the sport. Poor snow conditions have forced the Iditarod's organizers to modify the race course in seven of the past 10 years, St. George said. Unreliable snow cover has forced cancellation of up to 40 percent of the International Sled Dog Association's competitions in recent years.

Svanfeldt said the growing emphasis on dry-land events is largely because of climate change. Other people respond by moving farther north, to places where snow and ice are more reliable..... (continued)

foot_soldier

01-12-2008, 08:45 AM

Oh really? Gee, I didn't know. Actually am tired of discussing politics and political events. Period. I'm just tired. I'm not necessarily being molested....I'm just tired.

I would rather discuss science topics than political topics although I realize the two often overlap.

It's up to me, totally, in which forum I shall post.

Did you notice the odd weather on our continent, Halva?
Hi, BC.

I know exactly what you mean when you speak of being "tired."

I've never (and I do mean never in my life) understood the value of endlessly arguing and "debating" matters the continuously observable facts of which speak quite eloquently for themselves.

I am finding it very rewarding to have established offline discussion relationships with a few researchers and one very articulate science reporter whose primary interests include several climate change issues.

You're in close proximity to one of the finest atmospheric and climate research facilities in the world. I can see you taking advantage of that and perhaps establishing a connection with people up there who would probably be very pleased to hear from you.

HippieDude

01-12-2008, 09:40 AM

There is really only one way to reduce human influences on climate change - decrease consumption.

That sound like "recession" to me, unless folks want to pay other folks for nothing.

10,000 years ago, it appears mankind was already influencing climate change, actually stabalizing it from going into deep ice ages.

But what was the total human population 10,000 years ago?

How many resources did a single human consume in their lifetime 10,000 years ago?

What is the total human population today?

How many reasources does a single human consume today?

I think I calculated out, in calories and BTUs, how much a human being consumes.

I think it was amazing - what we burn in just a few tanks of gasoline in our car is the caloric equivelent of what our bodies burn in aour whole lives.

Even with a fuel efficient car, it takes less than a year for a driver to consume more energy driving his or her car than they use in their whole life.

But 10,000 years ago, mankind did not have to destroy nature to reap its benefits of providing food for living.

Today, we destroy the forests to plant food, and now we destroy food to plant fuel.

It is rather obvious that mankind had better take some rather drastic measures to reduce its consumption.

That means extremely drastic measures are required to increase energy efficiency.

That means extremely drastic measures are required to reduce overall consumption.

That means extremely drastic measures are required to keep civilization afloat.

That means, if we don't take extremely drastic measures, our standard of living will fall flat on its face.

That means we have to act now to become extremely more self sufficient in each of our homes, and sell those technolgies globally to maintain our standard of living for our children and hopefully many future generations.

Climate Change is an issue, certainly.

Resource Depletion is the REAL issue, Climate Change is just a symptom.

Self sustainability in a renewable and sustainable fashion is the only means to secure our future.

Now which of the Presidential candidates discusses REAL ISSUES that effect our overall survival, Gore and Bloomberg aren't running?

Once the human population atrophies into nothingness, there will be no "Christianity" or "Islamists", or "Jewish" or "Hindu" or "Buddhist" religions whatsoever.

Do all those religio-facists want to get the human race to that point faster?

Is that why so many of those folks consume so much - they really don't give a shit about their kids!!!

How Christian of them!?!

HippieDude

01-12-2008, 02:11 PM

See the two links in this post....

http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?p=896179#post896179

halva

01-12-2008, 08:20 PM

Hi, BC.
I've never (and I do mean never in my life) understood the value of endlessly arguing and "debating" matters the continuously observable facts of which speak quite eloquently for themselves.

It can be politically extremely expedient to have people endlessly arguing and debating. What is difficult to understand about that?

foot_soldier

01-12-2008, 08:36 PM

It can be politically extremely expedient to have people endlessly arguing and debating. What is difficult to understand about that?
That was exactly my point.

I may not wax eloquent on matters "political" but I do understand the game.

foot_soldier

01-12-2008, 08:50 PM

Response to Hippie Dude:

There is really only one way to reduce human influences on climate change - decrease consumption.

That's exactly what the majority of the research community has concluded – as if we didn't know, yes? We are now generating more waste than our life-support systems can process.

That sound like "recession" to me, unless folks want to pay other folks for nothing.

It sounds like “transition” to me. I don't think there's any way around that if we want to avoid leaving the generations behind us one hell of a challenge in the adaptation and clean-up departments.

10,000 years ago, it appears mankind was already influencing climate change, actually stabilizing it from going into deep ice ages.

Human activity has had and continues to exert both heating (greenhouse gas emissions) and cooling (aerosols) influences on regional weather and climate patterns.

But what was the total human population 10,000 years ago?

How many resources did a single human consume in their lifetime 10,000 years ago?

What is the total human population today?

How many resources does a single human consume today?

Important and often deliberately overlooked points.

I think I calculated out, in calories and BTUs, how much a human being consumes.

I think it was amazing - what we burn in just a few tanks of gasoline in our car is the caloric equivalent of what our bodies burn in our whole lives.

Even with a fuel efficient car, it takes less than a year for a driver to consume more energy driving his or her car than they use in their whole life.

But 10,000 years ago, mankind did not have to destroy nature to reap its benefits of providing food for living.

Today, we destroy the forests to plant food, and now we destroy food to plant fuel.

It is rather obvious that mankind had better take some rather drastic measures to reduce its consumption.

Too bad we didn't start thirty years ago. We could have. I'm not going to get into that here, however. It's just too damned demoralizing.

That means extremely drastic measures are required to increase energy efficiency.

That means extremely drastic measures are required to reduce overall consumption.

That means extremely drastic measures are required to keep civilization afloat.

That means, if we don't take extremely drastic measures, our standard of living will fall flat on its face.

That's right. That's exactly what is going to happen if we fail to take advantage of the opportunities presented by the current situation.

That means we have to act now to become extremely more self sufficient in each of our homes, and sell those technologies globally to maintain our standard of living for our children and hopefully many future generations.

Climate Change is an issue, certainly.

Resource Depletion is the REAL issue, Climate Change is just a symptom.

Abuse of resources is the real issue, I absolutely agree. But I wouldn't characterize the resulting destabilizing impacts on climate as “just” a symptom given that we're going to be living with the ramifications of accelerating climate destabilization for an indefinite period going forward and it's not going to be very pleasant if what's already happening in some quarters is any indication.

Self sustainability in a renewable and sustainable fashion is the only means to secure our future.

People need to work together on this, don't you think?

Let's face it, there just aren't that many individuals who are set up with the knowledge and the resources to be “self-sufficient.” I know two people in Maine and one person in Arizona who are doing very well in this department but they have been living off the grid for years now and have had plenty of experience (and made most of the inevitable mistakes – heh heh.)

I personally don't think it's going to be possible to achieve the kind of self-sufficiency you have in mind unless people get together in small groups (to start) and help each other out.

Now which of the Presidential candidates discusses REAL ISSUES that effect our overall survival, Gore and Bloomberg aren't running?

None of the Presidential candidates is openly discussing the REAL ISSUES in my opinion. And I definitely have survival in mind when I say that.

Once the human population atrophies into nothingness, there will be no "Christianity" or "Islamists", or "Jewish" or "Hindu" or "Buddhist" religions whatsoever.

Do all those religio-fascists want to get the human race to that point faster?

Is that why so many of those folks consume so much - they really don't give a shit about their kids!!!

How Christian of them!?!

<sigh>

Hippie Dude, I like your general orientation to the challenges before us. I find it uplifting and informative. You ought to be teaching somewhere if you aren't already.
.

Boomer Chick

01-15-2008, 07:51 AM

Hi, BC.

I know exactly what you mean when you speak of being "tired."

I've never (and I do mean never in my life) understood the value of endlessly arguing and "debating" matters the continuously observable facts of which speak quite eloquently for themselves.

I am finding it very rewarding to have established offline discussion relationships with a few researchers and one very articulate science reporter whose primary interests include several climate change issues.

You're in close proximity to one of the finest atmospheric and climate research facilities in the world. I can see you taking advantage of that and perhaps establishing a connection with people up there who would probably be very pleased to hear from you.

Hello FS ! How wonderful that you find your online relationships with researchers rewarding.

Yes, you're right. The Boulder-based and Ft. Collins-based university climatologists reside relatively close to us. However, the drive is quite long, over an hour and up to two, and if you end up within the rush-hour parameters going through Denver, it's stop and go. When you already shouldn't sit for prolonged periods of time, the thought of being in pain trumps the notion that meeting climate people as a lone citizen could even produce anything effective. In Denver and Colorado Springs concerned environmental groups operate. I actually should join and support one of them.

Since I have been a desalinization proponent for future water needs, I found this article to represent the beginning of the public debate on the issue.

The case AGAINST water desalinization: Does he make sense to you? Could you argue his points. I could.

http://www.alternet.org/environment/73512/

Will the World's Oceans Be Our Next Drinking Tap?
By Scott Thill (http://www.debatebothsides.com/authors/6266/), AlterNet (http://www.alternet.org/). Posted January 15, 2008 (http://www.debatebothsides.com/ts/archives/?date%5BF%5D=01&date%5BY%5D=2008&date%5Bd%5D=15&act=Go/).

halva

01-16-2008, 01:40 AM

In Denver and Colorado Springs concerned environmental groups operate. I actually should join and support one of them.

That's a good idea.

halva

03-27-2008, 06:27 AM

Here's a "sceptic" video:

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-4123082535546754758&hl=fr%C2%A0

halva

03-29-2008, 04:45 AM

Sydney goes dark for Earth Hour By TANALEE SMITH, Associated Press Writer

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080329/ap_on_sc/world_lights_out&printer=1;_ylt=AlyA90kXPrOeGIp2nPRLUTRxieAA

Sydney's iconic Opera House and Harbour Bridge went dark Saturday night as the world's first major city turned off its lights for this year's Earth Hour, a global campaign to raise awareness of climate change.

A lightning show was the brightest part of Sydney's skyline during Earth Hour, which began at 8 p.m. when the lights were turned off at the city's landmarks. Most businesses and homes were already dark as Sydney residents embraced their second annual Earth Hour with candlelight dinners, beach bonfires and even a green-powered outdoor movie.

"This provides an extraordinary symbol and an indication that we can be part of the solution" to global warming, Australian Environment Minister Peter Garrett told Sky News television, standing across the harbor from the dark silhouette of the Opera House.

Garrett said government offices and national monuments around the country participated in Earth Hour.

"We're not only talking the talk, we're walking the walk," he said as the hour ended. "Whatever your view is about the magnitude of the problem ... we can save money by using energy wisely and efficiently, and that gives us the added bonus of reduced greenhouse gas emissions."

During the one-hour event, Sydney was noticeably darker, though it was not a complete blackout. The business district was mostly dark; organizers said 250 of the 350 commercial buildings there had pledged to shut off their lights completely, and 94 of the top 100 companies on the Australian stock exchange were also participating.

The number of participants was not immediately available but organizers were hoping to beat last year's debut, when 2.2 million people and more than 2,000 businesses shut off lights and appliances, resulting in a 10.2 percent reduction in carbon emissions during that hour.

"I'm putting my neck on the line but my hope is that we top 100 million people," Earth Hour Australia chief executive Greg Bourne said.

The effect of last year's Earth Hour was infectious. This year 26 major world cities and more than 300 other cities and towns have signed up to participate.

New Zealand and Fiji kicked off the event this year. In Christchurch, New Zealand, more than 100 businesses and thousands of homes were plunged into darkness, computers and televisions were switched off and dinners delayed for the hour from 8 to 9 p.m. Suva, Fiji, in the same time zone, also turned off its lights.

Auckland's Langham Hotel switched from electric lights to candles as it joined the effort to reduce the use of electricity, which when generated creates greenhouse gases that contribute to global warming.

Australians had their own unique ways to mark the blackout as the clock struck 8 across the nation; one bar was offering free beers to customers who arrived with a black balloon to signify their carbon footprint; staff at beach bar donned solar-powered caps; a bed and breakfast offered candlelight cooking lessons; a children's hospital hosted a pajama party for its patients.

Following Australia, lights will go out in major Asian cities including Manila and Bangkok before moving to Europe and North America as the clock ticks on. One of the last major cities to participate will be San Francisco — home to the soon-to-be dimmed Golden Gate Bridge.

Organizers see the event as a way to encourage the world to conserve energy. While all lights in participating cities are unlikely to be cut, it is the symbolic darkening of monuments, businesses and individual homes they are most eagerly anticipating.

Even popular search engine Google put its support behind Earth Hour, with a completely black page and the words: "We've turned the lights out. Now it's your turn."

"Earth Hour is a call to action," Sydney's Lord Mayor Clover Moore said at the official launch ceremony. "People have now responded and it's time to introduce some significant long-term changes."

Australians have embraced Earth Hour and other environmental initiatives. The nation of around 21 million people is ranked as the world's worst greenhouse gas emitter per capita, largely because of its heavy reliance on coal-fired power stations. New Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has made the environment one of his priorities, signing the Kyoto Protocol on fighting global warming soon after taking office late last year.

halva

03-29-2008, 10:14 PM

Cities switch off lights for Earth Hour By CARYN ROUSSEAU, Associated Press Writer
36 minutes ago
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080330/ap_on_re_us/world_lights_out

CHICAGO - From the Sydney Opera House to Rome's Colosseum to the Sears Tower's famous antennas in Chicago, floodlit icons of civilization went dark Saturday for Earth Hour, a worldwide campaign to highlight the threat of climate change.

The environmental group WWF urged governments, businesses and households to turn back to candle power for at least 60 minutes starting at 8 p.m. wherever they were.

The campaign began last year in Australia, and traveled this year from the South Pacific to Europe to North America in cadence with the setting of the sun.

"What's amazing is that it's transcending political boundaries and happening in places like China, Vietnam, Papua New Guinea," said Andy Ridley, executive director of Earth Hour. "It really seems to have resonated with anybody and everybody."

Earth Hour officials hoped 100 million people would turn off their nonessential lights and electronic goods for the hour. Electricity plants produce greenhouse gases that fuel climate change.

In Chicago, lights on more than 200 downtown buildings were dimmed Saturday night, including the stripe of white light around the top of the John Hancock Center. The red-and-white marquee outside Wrigley Field also went dark.

"There's a widespread belief that somehow people in the United States don't understand that this is a problem that we're lazy and wedded to our lifestyles. (Earth Hour) demonstrates that that is wrong," Richard Moss, a member of the Nobel Peace Prize-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and the climate change vice president for WWF, said in Chicago on Saturday.

Workers in Phoenix turned out the lights in all downtown city-owned buildings for one hour. Darkened restaurants glowed with candlelight in San Francisco while the Golden Gate Bridge, Coit Tower and other landmarks extinguished lights for an hour.

New Zealand and Fiji were first out of the starting blocks this year. And in Sydney, Australia — where an estimated 2.2 million observed the blackout last year — the city's two architectural icons, the Opera House and Harbour Bridge, faded to black against a dramatic backdrop of a lightning storm.

Lights also went out at the famed Wat Arun Buddhist temple in Bangkok, Thailand; shopping and cultural centers in Manila, Philippines; several castles in Sweden and Denmark; the parliament building in Budapest, Hungary; a string of landmarks in Warsaw, Poland; and both London City Hall and Canterbury Cathedral in England.

Greece, an hour ahead of most of Europe, was the first on the continent to mark Earth Hour. On the isle of Aegina, near Athens, much of its population marched by candlelight to the port. Parts of Athens itself, including the floodlit city hall, also turned to black.
(Slide show: http://www.slide.com/r/8HFqOovSuD_nfpKw69iQI5kDCEBIqPzj?cy=wp&view=large)

In Ireland, where environmentalists are part of the coalition government, lights-out orders went out for scores of government buildings, bridges and monuments in more than a dozen cities and towns.

But the international banks and brokerages of Dublin's financial district blazed away with light, illuminating floor after empty floor of desks and idling computers.

"The banks should have embraced this wholeheartedly and they didn't. But it's a start. Maybe next year," said Cathy Flanagan, an Earth Hour organizer in Dublin.

Ireland's more than 7,000 pubs elected not to take part — in part because of the risk that Saturday night revelers could end up smashing glasses, falling down stairs, or setting themselves on fire with candles.

Likewise, much of Europe — including France, Germany, Spain and European Union institutions — planned nothing to mark Earth Hour.

Internet search engine Google lent its support to Earth Hour by blackening its normally white home page and challenging visitors: "We've turned the lights out. Now it's your turn."

___

Associated Press writers Shawn Pogatchnik in Dublin, Ireland; Tanalee Smith in Sydney, Australia; and other AP reporters worldwide contributed to this report.

___

:

halva

03-29-2008, 10:25 PM

Aegina (Aigina), the first capital of the modern Greek state, an oasis of security in the civil-war torn revolutionary Greece of the 1820s (being free from counter-revolutionary agitators), site of the swearing-in of the first governor of modern Greece, Ioannis Capodistrias, until 2007, when the council of Kiato in Greece also discussed chemtrails, has/had the only municipal council in Europe to attempt to come to grips with this subject.

22 months after his swearing-in in January 1828 Capodistrias, against the advice of supporters concerned for his security, moved his capital to Nafplion and was assassinated there.

http://www.enouranois.gr/video/monoaggliko.wmv

foot_soldier

04-22-2008, 06:52 PM

Interesting pair of articles in today's news:

April 22, 2008
Arctic ice more vulnerable to sunny weather
http://www.innovations-report.de/html/berichte/geowissenschaften/bericht-108369.html

The shrinking expanse of Arctic sea ice is increasingly vulnerable to summer sunshine. Unusually sunny weather contributed to last summer's record loss of Arctic ice, while similar weather conditions in past summers did not appear to have comparable impacts, new research concludes.

"The relative importance of solar radiation in the summer is changing," says Jennifer Kay of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) in Boulder, Colo., who is lead author of the study. "The amount of sunshine reaching the Arctic is increasingly influential, as there is less ice to reflect it back into space," she says.

The findings by Kay and colleagues at NCAR and Colorado State University
(CSU) in Fort Collins indicate that the presence or absence of clouds now has greater implications for sea ice loss.

"A single unusually clear summer can now have a dramatic impact," Kay says.

A report on the new results will be published tomorrow 22 April 2008 in Geophysical Research Letters, a journal of the American Geophysical Union (AGU)...... (continued)

April 22, 2008
Scientists study Arctic haze for clues to rapid melting
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-arctic0423,0,7072049.story?track=rss

Visitors to Alaska often marvel at the crisp, clear air. But the truth is, the skies above the Arctic Circle work like a giant lint trap during late winter and early spring, catching all sorts of pollutants swirling around the globe.

In recent weeks, scientists have been going up in government research planes and taking samples of the Arctic haze in hopes of solving a mystery: Are the floating particles accelerating the unprecedented warming going on in the far north?

While carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases that trap the Earth's heat are believed to be the chief cause of global warming, scientists suspect that airborne particles known as aerosols are also contributing to the Arctic meltdown.

To prove their suspicions, they are analyzing the haze, using mass spectroscopy and other technology to identify what is in it, where it came from and how it interacts with the clouds, the sunlight and the snow cover.

Their air samples have been found to contain dust from Asian deserts, salts that swell up moisture, particles from incomplete burning of organic material from forest and cooking fires, and all manner of nasties emitted by automobile tailpipes, factory smokestacks and power plants.

Collectively, they are a United Nations of pollution. Through chemical analysis, the particles can be traced to their sources throughout Asia, Europe and North America.

"The Arctic is a melting pot for mid-latitude pollution," said Daniel Jacob, a Harvard scientist taking part in the research. "We have signatures of just about everything you can imagine flying around in the Arctic."

The research is being conducted separately by NASA, the Department of Energy and the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration, and involves about 275 scientists and support staff and five aircraft.

The researchers are building on the work of a University of Alaska Fairbanks atmospheric scientist who arrived 35 years ago. Glenn Shaw took a light meter to Barrow, America's northernmost community, figuring he could document the clearest skies on the globe and perhaps get a mention in a scientific journal.

"I was expecting to set a record," he said, "because at the northern tip of Alaska, there's no industry, and the idea was that this must be the cleanest place, essentially, almost, on planet Earth."

He was wrong. Shaw detected a phenomenon later dubbed Arctic Haze that indicated the skies above Barrow and all the way to the North Pole collect pollutants..... (continued)

kola

04-22-2008, 10:27 PM

why has the term changed from global warming to climate change?

kola

HippieDude

04-22-2008, 10:48 PM

Post 34 and 45 of mine in the thread below touch heavily on these subjects:

The No Can Do Crowd (http://www.debatebothsides.com/showthread.php?t=67649&page=4)

jayreynolds

04-23-2008, 04:01 AM

why has the term changed from global warming to climate change?

kola

The ones trying to scare the bejeebers out of people realized it's harder to hit a moving target....?

halva

04-23-2008, 05:43 AM

Interesting pair of articles in today's news:

Footsoldier, do you have anything to say to Carole Pellatt?
http://www.debatebothsides.com/showpost.php?p=935536&postcount=8792

halva

05-13-2008, 08:54 PM

Longtime environmental activists know that the World Bank's investments have regularly gone toward projects that damage the environment, emit major amounts of greenhouse gas pollution, and negatively impact communities and human rights in the Global South. Now it wants to be the arbiter of huge pots of money intended to tackle global warming.

Not on our watch!

Friends of the Earth has documented how the World Bank promotes extractive industries and fossil fuels, shortchanges the poor while placing their ecosystems at great risk, focuses almost exclusively on corporate aims through its private investment arm, and has coordinated with the world's richest nations to invest upwards of $3 billion in new greenhouse gas producing projects.

Despite this record of downgrading environmental concerns in the interests of corporate development, the World Bank is now proposing to manage what it calls climate investment funds, possibly controlling billions of dollars intended to curb global warming (potentially including U.S. tax dollars).

Friends of the Earth believes that the World Bank should not be in control of this money. Help stop the World Bank from setting up these climate investment funds.

The World Bank rarely feels pressure from within the United States and is genuinely concerned about its reputation here - especially within Congress. We have set up an action that allows you to register your complaints through the World Bank's official comment form and copy your members of Congress, alerting them to your concerns. The comment deadline is this Wednesday, May 7.

Help keep the World Bank's plans from going forward by clicking here.
http://action.foe.org/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=24475

Oil and gas industries currently receive $1 billion per year, and growing, from the World Bank. In 2006, oil, gas, and power commitments accounted for 77 percent of the World Bank's total energy program (only about 6 percent went to "new renewables," like wind and solar, despite past promises). In April 2008, the Bank approved a $450 million loan for a massive 4,000 megawatt coal project in India, expected to be one of the 50 largest greenhouse gas emitters in the world.

The stated purpose of the World Bank's proposed Clean Technology Fund is to "provide scaled up financing to assist developing countries in transitioning to low-carbon economies." But neither "clean" nor "transformational" nor "low-carbon" is defined. Building somewhat more efficient coal-fired plants would seem to qualify as "clean technology."

Not surprisingly, the World Bank's proposed climate investment funds have been heavily criticized by civil society and developing country governments for marginalizing their voices and bypassing international climate negotiations. In many cases, recipient poor countries would have to pay the money back, further indebting those most at risk from global warming to those most responsible for it.

Like so many World Bank initiatives, its climate investment funds are a fool's gamble. Help shut them down
before they start wasting the money earmarked for our planet's survival.

Sincerely,
Karen Orenstein
Extractive Industries Campaign Coordinator
Friends of the Earth

Take action here: http://www.FoE.org/Climate_Investment_Funds

erich

07-18-2008, 05:42 PM

Biochar, the modern version of an ancient Amazonian agricultural practice called Terra Preta (black earth), is gaining widespread credibility as a way to address world hunger, climate change, rural poverty, deforestation, and energy shortages… SIMULTANEOUSLY!

Indeed, James Hansen is now placing it in the center stage of <a href="http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0804/0804.1126.pdf">pro-active solutions</a> for the climate crisis.

If you would like to get out of the noisy arguments and into the positive vision, please check out <a href="http://biocharfund.com/"
>Biochar.fund</a> and <a href="http://www.beyondzeroemissions.org/">beyondzeroemissions</a>.

The BBC documentary <a href="http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=secret+of+el+dorado&sitesearch=#">The Secret of El Dorado</a> is what propelled Terra Preta into global awareness and the Australians especially have been providing <a href="http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s2012892.htm">exciting documentaries</a> about current applications.

And if you would like to plunge deeper there is a great terra preta forum and information archive <a href="http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/">here</a>.

On nuclear energy;
some research with waste,, but present processes costly, even if scalable, nano materials being developed will change this but moreover will change the whole energy equation and usher in a new Post Combustion Age with printable& paintable solar power, Thermo-Electric power conversion, Most importantly Nano Carbon ; C-60 Fullerenes & Carbon Nano-tubes will be the feedstock for the Self assembled manufacture of eveything.
So even in a non burning , post combustion world oil will be more valuable as the best source for nano carbon
As a bridge until then, Pebble bed nuclear reactors , with "walk away" safety features seem the best bet , particularly compared to burning more coal.

Here's My standard Welcome Message to new Terra Preta (TP) discussion subscribers with current news, companies , field studies, articles , academic programs etc:

I hope you will come to share my passion in getting the word out on the wonderful solutions provided by TP soils.
I'm sort of the TP list (and data base at REPP-CREST) cub reporter, most all my list postings, under shengar@aol.com, are news items, collaborative work, lobbying efforts with government, writers and journals.
http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/?q=node

The new Yahoo Biochar discussion group;

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/?yguid=122501696

Bellow are my collected stories and links that I promiscuously post to anyone who has an iron in this fire.

Thanks for your interest

Cheers,
Erich

the current news and links on Terra Preta (TP) soils and closed-loop pyrolysis of Biomass, this integrated virtuous cycle could sequester 100s of Billions of tons of carbon to the soils.

This technology represents the most comprehensive, low cost, and productive approach to long term stewardship and sustainability.Terra Preta Soils a process for Carbon Negative Bio fuels, massive Carbon sequestration, 10X Lower CH4 & N2O soil emissions, and 3X Fertility Too.
Indeed, Dr. James Hansen, NASA's top Atmospheric authorty, is now placing it in the center stage of pro-active solutions for the climate crisis.

UN Climate Change Conference: Biochar present at the Bali Conference

http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/steinerbalinov2107

SCIAM Article May 15 07;

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=5670236C-E7F2-99DF-3E2163B9FB144E40

After many years of reviewing solutions to anthropogenic global warming (AGW) I believe this technology can manage Carbon for the greatest collective benefit at the lowest economic price, on vast scales. It just needs to be seen by ethical globally minded companies.

Could you please consider looking for a champion for this orphaned Terra Preta Carbon Soil Technology.

The main hurtle now is to change the current perspective held by the IPCC that the soil carbon cycle is a wash, to one in which soil can be used as a massive and ubiquitous Carbon sink via Charcoal. Below are the first concrete steps in that direction;

S.1884 – The Salazar Harvesting Energy Act of 2007

A Summary of Biochar Provisions in S.1884:

Carbon-Negative Biomass Energy and Soil Quality Initiative

for the 2007 Farm Bill

http://www.biochar-international.org/newinformationevents/newlegislation.html

Bolstering Biomass and Biochar development: In the 2007 Farm Bill, Senator Salazar was able to include $500 million for biomass research and development and for competitive grants to develop the technologies and processes necessary for the commercial production of biofuels and bio-based products. Biomass is an organic material, usually referring to plant matter or animal waste. Using biomass for energy can reduce waste and air pollution. Biochar is a byproduct of producing energy from biomass. As a soil treatment, it enhances the ability of soil to capture and retain carbon dioxide.

( Update; In conference the $500 M was cut to $3M....:( :( :( )

Thanks for giving biochar your consideration.

halva

07-18-2008, 08:41 PM

On nuclear energy;
some research with waste,, but present processes costly, even if scalable, nano materials being developed will change this but moreover will change the whole energy equation and usher in a new Post Combustion Age with printable& paintable solar power, Thermo-Electric power conversion, Most importantly Nano Carbon ; C-60 Fullerenes & Carbon Nano-tubes will be the feedstock for the Self assembled manufacture of eveything.
So even in a non burning , post combustion world oil will be more valuable as the best source for nano carbon
As a bridge until then, Pebble bed nuclear reactors , with "walk away" safety features seem the best bet , particularly compared to burning more coal.

Even the Greek development minister, who is a conservative, is not taking on board the "as a bridge" argument for acceptance of nuclear power stations.

I hope the rest of this posting has been something more than wallpaper to decorate this pro-nuclear point that you want to make.

I do not believe that anyone really interested in alternative energy could for a moment tolerate ANY self-justifying argument being put forward by the nuclear lobby.

In any case, there is not going to be any argument about nuclear energy here, Merely low-level abuse and trolling of whoever tries to start it.

Go to the main section if you want sympathetic consideration of anything you have to say in favour of nuclear energy.

The general moderating policy applied at DBS obliges us to behave like this.

halva

07-24-2008, 06:09 AM

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

Here's another spectacular piece of shit from Michel Chossudovsky and/or F. William Engdahl at . It reads like a sardonic parody of climate journalism. Do they think they stand a better chance of a lucrative corporate publishing contract with this stuff than with accurate material? (Actually, they probably do stand a better chance!)

As for the twerpy-hustler authwhore himself, he has no excuse for not knowing that the reason the northern hemisphere's 2007-2008 winter was colder than any recently is that certain nations have been clandestinely spraying vast quantities of highly reflective particles into our fragile homeplanet atmosphere.

The particles cause pockets of cool air which mix with warmer air and the combination frequently triggers wind-velocities and extremes of precipitation even more vicious than those we've recently been forced to become accustomed to.

It's monumentally ironic that the authwhore cites a Weather Channel person in order to solidify his thesis: only a Cheap Whore would be willing to be seen in public with anyone associated with the Weather Channel!

If these nefarious nations continue to get away with these sprayings (fortunately there's litigation now in Germany to compel the military there to stop doing this), then, yes, Global Warming will become a thing of the past. But it will be replaced by Global Warming/Cooling, which on balance will be even worse despite strengthening glaciers and improving water levels in certain lakes and reservoirs.

If you don't yet share my anger about this, please reread Adam Trombly's "Operation Global Cooling" at his .

The likes of Michel and F. William are reducing chances of a last-minute avoidance of a human die-back here on Earth.

Yours for waking to the quantum ether,
Keith Lampe

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What Global Warming?
Such as it was is over

by Phil Brennan
Global Research, July 22, 2008
etherzone.com

Fact: All history reveals that time after time this planet of ours has experienced periods of warming and periods of cooling. A century of slight global warming, about half a degree, ended in 1998.

Fact: In this century a global cooling has set in. In 2008 most of the northern hemisphere, except for Western Europe, is coming out of what most scientists say has been the harshest winter in decades.

Malta, Israel, China and India's New Delhi have been subjected to record low temperatures. In Afghanistan, more than 900 people and 316,000 head of cattle died as a result of bitter cold weather according to Reuters.

In a letter to U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon 13 top scientists including one Nobel Prize winner, pointed to the fact that while CO2 levels have continued to rise, global temperatures have fallen, dramatically contradicting the claim that CO2 levels cause global warming. They wrote that the UN Climate change Panel "must be called to account and cease its deceptive practices - Policies based on False science must be ended."

Meteorologist Anthony Watts says that the total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough, he says, to erase nearly all the global warming recorded over the past 100 years.

In a news conference held in Orlando, Florida John L. Casey, Director of the Space and Science Research Center, issued a landmark declaration on climate change.

“In an opinion echoed by many scientists around the world, the Space and Science Research Center (SSRC), today declares that the world’s climate warming of the past decades has now come to an end. A new climate era has already started that is bringing predominantly colder global temperatures for many years into the future. In some years this new climate will create dangerously cold weather with significant ill-effects world wide. Global warming is over – a new cold climate has begun.”

Fact: Lack of Sunspot activity portends the onset of global cooling. The sunspot number should stand close to 100; instead it's zero
The level of activity on the Sun will significantly diminish sometime in the next decade and remain low for about 20 - 30 years," said Ian Wilson, lead author of a study appearing in the June issue of PASA, Publications of the Astronomical Society of Australia.

The result is a strong, rapid pulse of global cooling, said Wilson. "On each occasion that the Sun has done this in the past the World’s mean temperature has dropped by 1 - 2 C.”

"A 2 C drop would be twice as large as all the warming the earth has experienced since the start of the industrial era, and would be significant enough to impact global agriculture output."

Got it? Global warming, such as it was, is over. Done with. Kaput.

That however, had failed to dampen the enthusiasm of the global warming fear mongers. It has, instead, fueled a spate of often ludicrous claims of an impending planetary disaster due to alleged global warming. As meteorologist and Weather Channel founder John Coleman has said all the proponents of global warming can do is to lamely suggest that global warming has gone on vacation and is taking a ten-year hiatus on account of the absence of sun spots. “If this weren’t so serious it would be laughable” Coleman said.

“It is the greatest scam in history, he said. "I am amazed, appalled and highly offended by it. Global warming; it is a scam. Some dastardly scientists with environmental and political motives manipulated long term scientific data to create in allusion (sic) of rapid global warming. Other scientists of the same environment whacko type jumped into the circle to support and broaden the “research” to further enhance the totally slanted, bogus global warming claims. Their friends in government steered huge research grants their way to keep the movement going. Soon, they claimed to be a consensus.”

Yet the beat goes on, and gets more ludicrous with one member of Congress actually telling a bunch of kids that global warming caused Hurricane Katrina and led to the deaths of Americans in the Blackhawk Down espoused in Somalia. He forgot to mention it also causes tooth decay, body odor and underarm perspiration.

Global warming is clearly over, yet Al Gore and his acolytes keep warning us that the planet is heating up even as it continues to get colder.

One definition of insanity is the compulsion to make the same mistake over and over again all the while expecting a different and successful outcome.

If that suggests that Al Gore and his fellow global warming fantasists are nuts, well , ...

Phil Brennan is a veteran journalist who writes for NewsMax.com. He is editor & publisher of Wednesday on the Web and was Washington columnist for National Review magazine in the 1960s. He also served as a staff aide for the House Republican Policy Committee and helped handle the Washington public relations operation for the Alaska Statehood Committee which won statehood for Alaska. He is also a trustee of the Lincoln Heritage Institute and a member of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers. Phil Brennan is a regular columnist for Ether Zone.

© Copyright Phil Brennan, etherzone.com, 2008

Lou

07-27-2008, 07:53 PM

“The earth has music for those who listen.”

_William Shakespeare_

Lou

08-16-2008, 07:19 PM

The Right WingNuts keep SCREAMING that there is no Global Warming but the U.S. Government and military obviously think there is because they are making changes in policy in the Arctic in part due to Global Warming, again the Righties get CON-ED by their own, AGAIN, how stupid are these people? :confused:
____________________________________________

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=1d6374e1-0a0c-483e-915a-e7151f7774a9

U.S. shifts Arctic foreign policy ( Due in part to rapidly retreating sea ice)

Americans waking up to increased competition in the North, coast guard chief says

Randy Boswell, Canwest News Service

Published: Saturday, August 09, 2008

In the latest sign of the rising international political stakes in the Arctic, the top U.S. Coast Guard official has revealed a planned shift in American foreign policy from scientific research to "sovereignty" and "security presence" in Alaskan waters bordering Canadian and Russian territory.

And to underscore growing U.S. concerns over its aging polar icebreaking fleet and suspect capacity for Arctic surveillance, Homeland Security director Michael Chertoff slipped quietly into Alaska on Friday to assess the coast guard's northern operations.

A Homeland Security officia; told Canwest News Service that Chertoff's unannounced two-day visit does not include any public events.

U.S. Coast Guard Commandant Admiral Thad Allen says rapidly retreating sea ice is forcing abrupt changes to U.S. priorities in the Arctic.

In a radio interview ahead of Chertoff's arrival, U.S. Coast Guard Commandant Admiral Thad Allen said rapidly retreating sea ice is forcing abrupt changes to U.S. priorities in the Arctic.

"For about the last 20 years, the conventional view for policy-makers in Washington is that any activity in the Arctic and Antarctic is basically related to science," Allen told the Alaska Public Radio Network.

But citing the ongoing "recession of the multi-year ice" in the Arctic Ocean and the inevitable increase in ship traffic and oil and gas exploration, Allen said: "I expect that sometime in the near future there will be an issuance of what they call a national security presidential directive to lay out new policy in the Arctic.

"This will deal with more issues of sovereignty, security presence and things like that," added Allen. "The question is: What do we want to project up here?"

U.S. anxiety about the state of Arctic security stems largely from comparisons with Russia's robust force of icebreakers and its recent displays of Arctic military might and economic ambition -- including last summer's controversial flag-planting on the North Pole sea floor by a Russian scientific expedition.

The U.S. is also concerned about the increased presence of foreign fishing fleets in the boundary waters between Alaska and Russia as warming Arctic waters alter the habitats of commercial species.

"The primary mission right now is the maritime boundary line with Russia -- keeping foreigners from stealing Alaskan fish," Rear Admiral Gene Brooks, head of the U.S. Coast Guard's operations in Alaska, told the radio network.

"The way we do that is either put ships or airplanes or both on the boundary line and we do a barking dog routine," warning or citing violators.

"The fleets are further north than ever because the species are moving north," he stated.

Canada has its own high-profile disagreement with the U.S. over the Northwest Passage -- the sea route through Canada's Arctic islands that this country claims as "internal waters" but the U.S. and other nations consider an international strait.

There's also a disputed section of the Beaufort Sea north of the Yukon-Alaska border where both Canada and the U.S. claim ownership.

Earlier this year, a top U.S. government oceanographer also predicted overlapping U.S. and Canadian claims for seabed territory in another area of the Beaufort Sea further north.

But this summer, U.S. and Canadian scientists plan to collaborate on a sea floor survey in that region and share information helpful to each country's eventual claims for extended seabed territory under a UN treaty.

halva

08-16-2008, 10:15 PM

The aspect that we really need more information about is to what extent the melting of the Arctic has been caused deliberately. I don't believe the "climate chance sceptics" should be regarded as legitimate participants in public debate and I don't believe in discussing anything with them, except perhaps geoengineering..

03_SHOOTER

08-17-2008, 08:18 AM

Of course there's "Global Warming", it happens every year, and we call it SUMMER. It's followed about 6 months later by "Global Cooling" which we call WINTER.

Anything other than that falls into the catagory of "natural cycles". Is ANYTHING that man is doing "contributing" to "climate change"? If so, it's so minute as to be completely inconsequential.

03_SHOOTER

08-17-2008, 08:23 AM

metling of the Arctic has been caused deliberately.

STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACK PIPE!

I don't beliee the "climate chance sceptics" should be regarded as legitimate participants in public debate and I don't believe in discussing anything with them...

Well of course they shouldn't, because they make you look like a raving idiot, and we can't have that, now can we?

CDsNuTz

08-17-2008, 10:20 AM

make you look like a raving idiot.

Speaking of RAVING IDIOTS, How's it going SHOOTER??

halva

08-17-2008, 10:42 AM

STEP AWAY FROM THE CRACK PIPE!

Well of course they shouldn't, because they make you look like a raving idiot, and we can't have that, now can we?

I did say that I was prepared to discuss geoengineering with climate change sceptics. Interested??

Lou

08-17-2008, 05:47 PM

Speaking of RAVING IDIOTS, How's it going SHOOTER??

Raving idiot = the Onion Farmer reincarnate me thinks.:rolleyes:

Boomer Chick

08-17-2008, 07:17 PM

Hello science forum friends and all curious readers!

I've stopped by to send greetings from Colorado to wherever you are and tell you all is well in our hearth and home. We've recently received so much rain, but tremendous short downpours as well as long full day gentle constant rain that this morning in the gentle morning sun, we walked our pine covered property and followed tiny little trickling, clear streams in our slippers with our mini-dachshund exploring the tiny rivulets like a child in a shallow creek. It was beautiful. We've been in a relative drought for years, you know, and this amount of rain was not only needed, but the threat of wild fires was looming and now everyone can relax. Poor California, my home state.

Your quick glance at the article topics below may tell you that Climate Change has begun, still stimulates debate on its causes, and has been accepted and rejected as a reality by various communities. Is it warming? Is it cooling? I titled this thread "Climate Change" because it indeed has changed but in different ways in different areas of the world. It's not just warming, nor is it warming evenly across the planet.

Can we all agree that the icy poles are melting at this time?

Can we all agree that the effort to curtail our green house gas emissions will help to clean the atmosphere, prevent pollution in all biospheres, and even if we can't prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt with scientific acumen MAYBE help stabilize the climate changes we see around us? We don't know the future, but attempting as a human species to keep the atmosphere and biosphere balanced as far as our injections of various unnatural and even natural gases and substances...just has to be a wiser and more caring way to move into the future. If we can say, as a species, a hundred years from now that we did our best to maintain a natural, balanced earth biosphere, then we cannot blame ourselves for anything that may create our human extinction.

Other forces in the solar system and universe we cannot control.

Adaptation will be the key to our survival and I do believe I see this in operation across the globe.

Unfortunately, the evil forces of fear, greed, revenge, and power-lust hold within their ranks the Damocles sword of nuclear holocaust, biowarfare inhumanities accidental and purposeful, and other possible secret scientific programs causing harm to the earth biosphere both accidentally and purposeful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damocles

In so many ways I continue to see that all encompassing ying yang, black white, evil good battle going on, yet the stakes of our demise raise every year that our species fails to realize the meaning of peace and brotherhood.

Best August wishes to you all ! :)

BC

Google News Alert for: global warming
Teens Battle Global Warming (http://www.usnews.com/blogs/on-education/2008/08/15/teens-battle-global-warming.html)
U.S. News & World Report - Washington,DC,USA
... Doerr has founded the nonprofit Inconvenient Youth to educate her peers about the climate crisis and what they can do to help prevent global warming. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.usnews.com/blogs/on-education/2008/08/15/teens-battle-global-warming.html)
Debate still heating up on global warming (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/08/17/20080817ClimateChangeDebate0817.html)
AZ Central.com - AZ,USA
17, 2008 12:00 AM PHILADELPHIA - What you hear about global warming can vary as much as, well, the weather. One day, California Gov. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/08/17/20080817ClimateChangeDebate0817.html)
Practical Prevention: Kidney Stones Linked to Global Warming (http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2008/aug/17/practical-prevention-kidney-stones-linked-to/)
Kitsap Sun - WA, United States
By Elizabeth Smoots As global warming heats up, kidney stones have joined the hotlist for illnesses that merit more attention. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2008/aug/17/practical-prevention-kidney-stones-linked-to/)
New Castle to set target for reduction of global warming gases (http://lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080817/NEWS02/808170332/-1/newsfront)
Lower Hudson Journal news - West Harrison,NY,USA
By Elizabeth Ganga NEW CASTLE - The first step to reducing a town's contribution to global warming is to catalog the amount of carbon dioxide and other ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20080817/NEWS02/808170332/-1/newsfront)
Dam benefits (http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_10223694)
Salt Lake Tribune - United States
Either they don't really believe global warming is happening and are just using it to achieve their political ends, or they love the goddess Earth more than ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_10223694)
Scientists tie warming to heavy rain (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5948144.html)
Houston Chronicle - United States
In their 2007 report on global warming, for instance, scientists on the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change concluded that a storm so severe that it ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5948144.html)
What climate change does to Earth’s coldest place (http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200880815106)
Asheville Citizen-Times - NC,USA
As individuals and a nation in a global community we do not necessarily experience directly the consequences of global warming, nor are we fully informed ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D200880815106)
Global warming aside, fresh water dwindling (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/2008/08/17/20080817vip-gober0817.html)
Arizona Republic - Phoenix,AZ,USA
Rich countries, trading virtual water and using energy to solve water-shortage problems, may accentuate global warming and water stress in poor countries. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/2008/08/17/20080817vip-gober0817.html)
There are better answers than drilling for more oil (http://www.kansascity.com/618/story/751864.html)
Kansas City Star - MO,USA
By putting global warming solutions to work in Missouri, we could see 250000 jobs expand and wages increase. After decades of addiction, breaking from oil ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.kansascity.com/618/story/751864.html)
The global warming scare may have peaked (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/08/the_global_warming_scare_may_h.html)
American Thinker - Bellevue,WA,USA
So far as I know, he is the first politician to call openly for repeal of economically harmful legislation deriving from the global warming scare. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/08/the_global_warming_scare_may_h.html)

erich

08-17-2008, 07:52 PM

National Geographic's September article on soils by Charles Mann puts Terra Preta front and center.

The Combined English and other language circulation is nearly nine million monthly with more than fifty million readers monthly!

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/09/soil/mann-text

I love his theme of the "MEGO" factor (My Eyes Glase Over), Lord how I Know that reaction.

I like his characterization concerning the Terra Preta pot shards;

so filled with pottery "It was as if the river's first inhabitants had
thrown a huge, rowdy frat party, smashing every plate in sight, then
buried the evidence."

A couple of researchers I was not aware of were quoted, and I'll be sending
them posts about our group.

Maybe Dr. Jim Hansen will convince you;
Dr. James Hansen, NASA's top Atmospheric authority, is now placing Biochar in the center stage of pro-active solutions for the climate crisis.

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0804/0804.1126.pdf

Jim Hansen's next article comes out in Science, we think "biochar" will appear there quite soon).

I just thought I would send an update.

The new Yahoo Biochar discussion group;
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/b...guid=122501696
This is the continued discussion from http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org/?q=node , that still maintains the data base.
There are 300 subscribers, and I think Tom Miles said 400 views a day, about a half dozen of the suscribers are heading to the IBI conference in Newcastle, a few are speaking.

There are many temperate field studies coming out with good hard data this fall; ISU, Virginia Tech, Dynomotive and Massey University in New Zealand who have found a 10X reduction in N2O soil GHG emissions.

Cheers,
Erich

halva

08-17-2008, 08:31 PM

Erich don't start a fight with Shooter in this part of the forum please.

We don't discuss climate change here with "sceptics".

I invited Shooter to discuss geoengineering and so far he has not responded.

Dingo

08-19-2008, 06:16 AM

Interesting fresh water- global warming link offered by BC. Mrs. Gober does need to resolve her confusion between a million and a billion however.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/2008/08/17/20080817vip-gober0817.html

According to a study published in the July 14, 2000, issue of Science, one-third of the world's population is water-stressed, with 8 percent classified as severely water-stressed, including the western United States and northern Mexico, South America, India, China, Africa surrounding the Sahara Desert, and southern Africa and Australia.

"Water stress" has profoundly different meanings in developed and developing countries. In Africa and many parts of Asia, it means inadequate water for drinking, sanitation and crops. In emerging economies such as India and China, it translates as an inability to meet the dietary and lifestyle aspirations of a growing middle class.

Water stress in richer nations, and in places such as Phoenix and Las Vegas, means an inability to sustain a growth economy and support lavish oasis-style lifestyles featuring irrigated lawns, outdoor swimming pools, artificial waterfalls and urban lakes.

Per capita water withdrawal and use vary widely according to a country's technological capacity and economic profile, but almost two-thirds of all water withdrawn from Earth's rivers and streams is used for agriculture
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem of water stress has other facets, as well, such as the often-overlooked environmental needs of plants, animals and natural landscapes, or the flow of "virtual water" contained in trade goods. It takes 57 gallons of water to produce a pound of corn and 855 gallons of water to produce a pound of corn-fed beef, meaning that exporting corn and beef is equivalent to exporting water. World trade can therefore be a mechanism to exacerbate or relieve water stress.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Climate change has the potential to alter both water supply and demand. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's Fourth Assessment report in 2007, increasing temperatures suggest increased evaporation and decreased stream flows, as well as rising seas that could contaminate freshwater estuaries and groundwater resources. Increasingly variable precipitation will likely mean more frequent high-intensity droughts and floods and less available rainfall in arid and semiarid regions, including Arizona.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Water and energy are closely intertwined, a relationship that is often overlooked. Water provides the steam driving nuclear turbines. It cools thermal plants and powers hydroelectricity. Concurrently, loads of energy go toward desalinating, pumping and moving water. Producing 1 kilowatt of electricity requires an estimated 36 to 53 gallons of water, depending on whether fossil fuel or nuclear plants are used.

Large-scale desalination plants require substantial amounts of energy and specialized, expensive infrastructure, making them accessible for Middle Eastern countries with large energy reserves - Saudi Arabia's desalination plants account for about 24 percent of total world capacity

halva

08-19-2008, 07:42 AM

I invited Shooter to discuss geoengineering here and he has not responded. That is quite OK with me.

Boomer Chick

09-02-2008, 07:56 AM

Who's Mrs. Gober? Did I miss something?

And PLEASE don't invite Shooter to discuss anything here. He's intelligent but on the wrong track and that means "trouble." His reasoning skills resemble swiss cheese.

Arctic Ice Melts Away Due To Impact Of Global Warming (http://chattahbox.com/science/2008/09/01/arctic-ice-melts-away-due-to-impact-of-global-warming/)
ChattahBox - Boston,MA,USA
That tipping point has to do with global warming, and is causing major problems for the Arctic sea ice, and endangered species such as the polar bear. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://chattahbox.com/science/2008/09/01/arctic-ice-melts-away-due-to-impact-of-global-warming/)
Sea Levels Forecast To Exceed Previous Estimates Due To Global Warming (http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7012135711)
AHN - USA
... in the melt season, there is a chance the ice would diminish below the record low set in 2007, indicating the devastating effects of global warming. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7012135711)
Global warming: Sea level rises may accelerate (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/sep/01/sea.level.rise?gusrc=rss&feed=worldnews)
guardian.co.uk - UK
Climate scientists are uncertain how susceptible ice sheets are to global warming, largely because they have never witnessed one disappear, so researchers ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/sep/01/sea.level.rise%3Fgusrc%3Drss%26feed%3Dworldnews)
Artificial engineering may save the Earth from global warming (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Global_Warming/Artificial_engineering_may_save_the_Earth_from_glo bal_warming/articleshow/3431576.cms)
Times of India - India
"Global emissions of greenhouse gases continue to rise, so there is inevitably interest in technologies that may be able to provide a 'fix'," said Lord Rees ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Global_Warming/Artificial_engineering_may_save_the_Earth_from_glo bal_warming/articleshow/3431576.cms)
Cloud-making ships may reduce global warming (http://www.eta.co.uk/cloud_making_ship_fights_global_warming/node/11030)
Environmental Transport Association - Weybridge,UK
A scientist at the University of Edinburgh says that a fleet of water-borne cloud makers could help reduce global warming. The unmanned sailing ships would ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.eta.co.uk/cloud_making_ship_fights_global_warming/node/11030)
Global warming's local threat (http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/01/global_warmings_local_threat52685/)
Charleston Post Courier - Charleston,SC,USA
The term "global warming" can obscure the very local threat posed by climate change. Representatives of the Southern Alliance for Clean Energy, ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/01/global_warmings_local_threat52685/)
Thawing permafrost likely to boost global warming (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-09/aiob-tpl082808.php)
EurekAlert (press release) - Washington,DC,USA
The relatively rapid warming now under way is bringing the organic material back into the ecosystem, in part by turning over soil. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-09/aiob-tpl082808.php)
Extreme and risky action the only way to tackle global warming ... (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/sep/01/climatechange.scienceofclimatechange2?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront)
guardian.co.uk - UK
Photograph: Associated Press Political inaction on global warming has become so dire that nations must now consider extreme technical solutions - such as ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/sep/01/climatechange.scienceofclimatechange2%3Fgusrc%3Drs s%26feed%3Dnetworkfront)
Warning on global warming (http://www.teletext.co.uk/news/national/e2b51f5eaf2598fdf92d7f81544afcd2/Warning+on+global+warming.aspx)
TeleText - Scotland,UK
Humans may have to attempt planet-scale engineering of the climate because global warming is happening faster than predicted, a scientist has claimed. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ncl=http://www.teletext.co.uk/news/national/e2b51f5eaf2598fdf92d7f81544afcd2/Warning%2Bon%2Bglobal%2Bwarming.aspx)
Extreme and risky action the (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/sep/01/climatechange.scienceofclimatechange2)

halva

09-02-2008, 08:39 AM

Who's Mrs. Gober? Did I miss something?

And PLEASE don't invite Shooter to discuss anything here.

Nobody has invited him or is inviting him.

Lou

09-02-2008, 08:06 PM

Nobody has invited him or is inviting him.

Jesus,.......:eek:..........I hope not,...:rolleyes:.....Onion Farmers make for LOUSY conversation, they think they know everything_ you know. :D

Boomer Chick

11-22-2008, 05:37 AM

Hello climate watchers! Back to the subject at hand, heh? I was reading over at Alex Jones's site and read some interesting articles on the climate change situation. They seem to point to the planet's cooling at this point rather than the planet's warming. In order to accept the notion of it's cooling, we'll have to check Oceanographic temperature readings as well as the more obvious ice accumulation. I don't trust anything until it is corroborated by many diverse sources.

So here's the information:

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/6416

Washington DC - The bad news for global warming alarmists just keeps rolling in. Below is a very small sampling of very inconvenient developments for Gore, the United Nations, and the mainstream media. Peer-reviewed studies (http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=84E9E44A-802A-23AD-493A-B35D0842FED8), analyses, and prominent scientists continue to speak out (http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=865DBE39-802A-23AD-4949-EE9098538277) to refute climate fears. The majority of data presented below is from just the past few weeks. Also see: U.S. Senate Minority Report: “Over 400 Prominent Scientists (and rapidly growing) Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007” (http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport) & ‘Consensus’ On Man-Made Global Warming Collapses in 2008 (http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=37AE6E96-802A-23AD-4C8A-EDF6D8150789) - July 18, 2008 & An August 2007 report detailed how proponents of man-made global warming fears enjoy a monumental funding advantage over skeptical scientists. LINK (http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=38D98C0A-802A-23AD-48AC-D9F7FACB61A7)

continued......

Boomer Chick

11-22-2008, 05:41 AM

http://www.globalwarming.org/node/2756

Chris Horner
November 13, 2008
On this symbolic date, it seems worthwhile to reflect that the planet has not only cooled since George W. Bush took office – pause and let the significance of that one sink in – but began to chill significantly at almost precisely the moment that we signed (http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9811/12/climate.signing/) the Kyoto Protocol, exactly ten years ago today.

It’s too bad President Bush didn’t really “unsign” or otherwise “withdraw [sic] from” it. We might have been able to avert this disturbing trend. But of course, you're very well read (http://astore.amazon.com/globalwarmi04-20/detail/1596985380) and already knew that.

Boomer Chick

11-22-2008, 05:46 AM

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/6416

November 12, 2008
Excerpt: The calendar year isn’t exactly over yet, but the people who watch such things --- namely the National Climatic Data Center (http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/6416#) --- are reporting that through its first 10 months 2008 is shaping up to be the coolest year in the United States since 1997.

By Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Roy W. Spencer, formerly a senior scientist for climate studies at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center where he received NASA’s Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal, and currently principal research scientist at the University of Alabama in Huntsville)
Excerpt: New papers Debunk Warming Fears: The first paper showed how none of 18 IPCC climate models, in over 1,000 years of global warming simulations, ever exhibits the negative feedback we have measured from global satellite data. The second paper revealed new satellite evidence that the Pacific Decadal Oscillation modulates the Earth’s radiative balance by an amount that, when put into a simple climate model, can explain 75% of global warming over the 20th Century....including the slight cooling between 1940 and 1980. Since our previous publications have been basically censored by the news media, and I have now experienced scientific censorship (which I suppose was long overdue), I have decided to take my message to the people in a second book. In anticipation of trouble getting these papers published, I had already started the book awhile back...it is now about 80% finished, heavily illustrated. The working title is: The Great Global Warming Blunder: How Mother Nature Fooled the World’s Top Climate Scientists. My book agent is currently scouting for publishers.

http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm

HMMMMMM.

Boomer Chick

11-22-2008, 05:51 AM

October 28, 2008 - By Astrophysicist Piers Corbyn, founder of the UK based long-term solar forecast group Weather Action and creator of the solar-particle based “Solar Weather Technique” of long range weather forecasting.

Excerpt: Global Warming is over and Global Warming Theory has failed. There is no evidence that CO2 drives world temperatures or any consequent Climate Change (http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/6416#). According to Official data in every year since 1998 world Temperatures have been colder than that year yet CO2 has been rising rapidly. The rate of decline of world temperature has got more rapid since 2002; and Arctic ice has increased in the last year : ( Including maps of ice extent: Arctic ice increasing rapidly also see Increase by nearly a half million square miles) The UN IPCC predictions from 2000 have failed consistently and dramatically.

http://co2sceptics.com/news.php?id=2007

Boomer Chick

11-22-2008, 05:56 AM

Daily Tech – November 7, 2008
Excerpt: An abnormally cool Arctic is seeing dramatic changes to ice levels. In sharp contrast to the rapid melting seen last year, the amount of global sea ice has rebounded sharply and is now growing rapidly. The total amount of ice, which set a record low value (http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/6416#) last year, grew in October at the fastest pace since record-keeping began in 1979.

http://www.dailytech.com/Sea+Ice+Growing+at+Fastest+Pace+on+Record/article13385.htm

Fast Growing Arctic Sea Ice
http://omniclimate.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/arctic-sea-ice-extent-in-october-2008-fastest-ever-growth

Is this just hype? Are these non-Americans out to disprove Gore and the IPCC in order to one-upmanship or is this the real deal?

foot_soldier

11-22-2008, 05:56 AM

Boomer Chick

11-22-2008, 06:09 AM

http://www.prisonplanet.com/global-cooling-record-low-temperatures-hit-america.html

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet (http://prisonplanet.com/)
Monday, October 27, 2008

Record low temperatures have hit dozens of areas across America as a natural period of global cooling accelerates, leaving man-made global warming advocates with egg on their face as the big chill sets in.
Data compiled by the IceAgeNow (http://www.iceagenow.com/Record_Lows_2008.htm) website shows that record lows are being matched and broken on an almost daily basis in states throughout the U.S. as the country prepares for a freezing cold winter.
Record lows have been matched or beaten in the following states over the course of the last two weeks.
OCTOBER 25TH
Corpus Christi, TX - 39 Degrees Fahrenheit
Islip, NY - 31 Degrees Fahrenheit
OCTOBER 24TH
Montague, CA - 26 Degrees Fahrenheit
Traverse City, MI Breaks old record of 24 set in 1976 - 22 Degrees Fahrenheit
Pocatello, ID Ties previous record set in 1949 - 18 Degrees Fahrenheit
Trenton, NJ Ties record set in 1969 - 29 Degrees Fahrenheit
Austin, TX Ties old record set in 2005 - 37 Degrees Fahrenheit
Troutdale, OR Breaks old record of 36 set in 2002 - 33 Degrees Fahrenheit
Seattle, WA - 38 Degrees Fahrenheit
McGrath, AK Breaks old record of 9 degrees set in 1982 - 5 Degrees Fahrenheit
OCTOBER 23RD
Rome, OR Breaks old record of 20 set in 1980 - 15 Degrees Fahrenheit
Caribou, ME Breaks old record of 21 set in 1982 - 20 Degrees Fahrenheit
Winslow, AZ - 21 Degrees Fahrenheit
Traverse City, MI Breaks old record of 24 set in 1976 - 22 Degrees Fahrenheit
Grand Junction, CO Breaks old record of 26 set in 1996 - 23 Degrees Fahrenheit
Hilo, HI - 64 Degrees Fahrenheit
Childress, TX - 34 Degrees Fahrenheit
Bountiful, UT - 28 Degrees Fahrenheit
Burley, ID - 21 Degrees Fahrenheit
Idaho Falls, ID Breaks old record of 18 set in 1958 - 17 Degrees Fahrenheit
Challis, ID - 17 Degrees Fahrenheit
Pendleton, OR - 29 Degrees Fahrenheit
Union, OR Breaks previous record of 20 set in 1980 - 17 Degrees Fahrenheit
Walla Walla, WA - 32 Degrees Fahrenheit
Pocatello, ID - 18 Degrees Fahrenheit
Alamosa, CO Breaks old record of 6 set in 1958 - 4 Degrees Fahrenheit
San Angelo, TX - 30 Degrees Fahrenheit
OCTOBER 22ND
Marquette, MI - 21 Degrees Fahrenheit
Alpena, MI - 20 Degrees Fahrenheit
Bryce Canyon, UT - 14 Degrees Fahrenheit
OCTOBER 14TH
Butte, MT Breaks old record of 13 set in 1969 - 10 Degrees Fahrenheit
Burley, ID Breaks old record of 19 set in 1966 - 15 Degrees Fahrenheit
Jerome, ID - 23 Degrees Fahrenheit
Record low high temp
Glasgow, MT Ties old record set in 1899 and 1981 - 37 Degrees Fahrenheit

OCTOBER 13TH
Grand Canyon, AZ - 36 Degrees Fahrenheit
Salt Lake City, UT - 40 Degrees Fahrenheit
Las Vegas, NV - 62 Degrees Fahrenheit
Joseph, OR ties 1912 record - 21 Degrees Fahrenheit
Monument, OR - 17 Degrees Fahrenheit
Union Es, OR Breaks old record of 17 set in 1969 - 15 Degrees Fahrenheit
Whitman, WA Breaks old record of 22 set in 2002 - 19 Degrees Fahrenheit
Boundary Dam, WA Breaks old record of 21 set in 2002 - 15 Degrees Fahrenheit
Olympia, WA - 28 Degrees Fahrenheit
Quillayute, WA - 29 Degrees Fahrenheit
Tucson, AZ - 38 Degrees Fahrenheit
Tucson shatters old record low
13 Oct 08 - TUCSON INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT HIT 38 DEGREES WHICH SHATTERED THE OLD DAILY RECORD LOW OF 43 DEGREES SET IN 1931. THE LAST TIME TUCSON SET A RECORD LOW TEMPERATURE IN OCTOBER WAS BACK ON OCTOBER 30 1971 WHEN THE MERCURY HIT 26 DEGREES…WHICH IS THE ALL-TIME RECORD LOW FOR OCTOBER.
OCTOBER 12TH
Record low temps in four states:
Meacham, OR - 15 Degrees Fahrenheit
Pendleton, OR - 18 Degrees Fahrenheit
Olympia, WA - 28 Degrees Fahrenheit
Eureka, CA - 36 Degrees Fahrenheit
Seattle, WA - 37 Degrees Fahrenheit
Lewiston, ID Lowest temperature since records began in 1881 - 28 Degrees Fahrenheit
Moses Lake, WA - 26 Degrees Fahrenheit
Record cold highs
Reno, NV - 39 Degrees Fahrenheit
Salt Lake City, UT - 47 Degrees Fahrenheit
Las Vegas, NV - 60 Degrees Fahrenheit

***

Remember we discussed and I shared that this thread be titled "Climate Change" rather than Global Warming? Why? Because that's what's occurring ....change. Is it change because of man's molecular contribution to the atmosphere? Is it change due to the sun's behavior? Is it change due to the interior temperature of the earth's core? Is it change due to extra-solar system effects? Is the climate changing due to man's interference and contamination of the upper atmosphere with various energy pulses?

As we climate watchers know, bumps in the high temps or the lows do not make a trend. One has to track the bumps OVER TIME in order to record a trend. Some cool temps in October do not mean anything in regard to overall planetary temperature behavior. These highs and lows must be tracked and the overall temperature recordings of oceans, earth surface albedo, and the trending behaviors of glaciers and polar ice formations over time must be tracked.

Boomer Chick

11-22-2008, 06:16 AM

Destabilization of established patterns (circulatory, precipitation, etc.) equals accelerating emergence of chaotic fluctuations in temperature and increasing incidence of extreme precipitation events. In other words it's going to be a chaotic ride going forward. Each region will experience different changes in local patterns, as is already occurring right here in this country. We have been advised of this. For years.

Well said and I totally concur.

So I assume you don't agree to the arousal of the recent "global cooling" theory. Indeed and rather, as you say, we are witnessing the "chaotic fluctuations" inline and actually confirming the Gore hypothesis. ? "Change" rather than warming in every locality is the proper nomenclature rather than overall "warming." I've always interpreted the information as such based on all the data.

Maybe we should revisit the NOAA and Woods Hole sites?

Boomer Chick

11-22-2008, 06:24 AM

More from Watson

http://www.prisonplanet.com/global-cooling-record-low-temperatures-hit-america.html

Record snowfall levels as well as earliest snow records have also been measured in numerous areas, including Dodge City, KS, Stevens Pass, Washington, Billings, MT, Boise, and Valdez, AK.

As we reported last week (http://www.prisonplanet.com/wwf-resorts-to-deception-in-climate-fearmongering.html), global warming fearmongers like the World Wildlife Fund are having to resort to deception as a clear trend of global cooling unfolds. In a recent report, the WWF cited shrinking Arctic ice coverage to suggest climate change is “faster and more extreme” than first thought, while failing to acknowledge that Arctic sea ice expanded over an area bigger than the size of Germany during the year of 2008.

“Sunspot counts are at a 50-year low,” says solar physicist David Hathaway of the NASA Marshall Space Flight Center (http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/30sep_blankyear.htm). “We’re experiencing a deep minimum of the solar cycle.”
Which is why we are seeing evidence of natural global cooling all over the planet - Alaskan glaciers (http://www.prisonplanet.com/global-cooling-alaskan-glaciers-grow-for-first-time-in-250-years.html) growing for the first time in 250 years, unprecedented ice storms in Kenya (http://www.prisonplanet.com/global-cooling-unprecedented-ice-storms-in-kenya.html), China (http://uk.reuters.com/article/homepageCrisis/idUKPEK161570._CH_.242020080204) experiencing its coldest winter in 100 years, many parts of the U.S. (http://www2.nysun.com/article/74175) suffering their coldest April on record along with record snowfall, Britain (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=544088&in_page_id=1770) suffering its coldest Easter in decades, Sydney Australia (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2841387.cms) suffering its coldest summer in 50 years.

All the evidence is screaming out that the planet has now embarked on a cooling trend to follow the natural warming trend that caused Arctic ice to shrink in the first place, just as natural global warming caused Greenland to be green (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland#Geography_and_climate) thousands of years ago when it was a lush forest and when temperatures were on average 5 °C (9 °F) higher than today.
But the high priests of the religion of global warming are not apt to allow anything - not even record low temperatures - to challenge their collective belief system, which is why “global warming” quickly began being referred to as “climate change” after global warming tailed off following the end of the last century.

Watson says, "all the evidence...." . Well, I think he needs to visit scientific interpretation sites rather than take a few temps in this tiny time period and call it a global trend.

Notice how he spins the "climate change" as a twisting to the cooling trend rather than the actual reality it reflects: CHANGE and in a "chaoatic" (FS) manner. Too bad Watson can't realize underlying causes for the changes.

halva

11-22-2008, 08:18 AM

I don't think we should argue with the "sceptics" at all.

We should talk about geoengineering and chemtrails.

The global warming debate is a fake debate. Period. Both sides of it.

But we have to align with one side against another side in order to demarginalize ourselves. .

We align with the climate change true believers against the "sceptics", but we don't argue with the "sceptics". We ignore them.

By ignoring them we will make them go away, just as they hope to make us go away by ignoring us.

Boomer Chick

11-22-2008, 09:04 AM

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/skeptic

skeptic

1587, "member of an ancient Gk. school that doubted the possibility of real knowledge," from Fr. sceptique, from L. scepticus, from Gk. skeptikos (pl. Skeptikoi "the Skeptics"), lit. "inquiring, reflective," the name taken by the disciples of the Gk. philosopher Pyrrho (c.360-c.270 B.C.E.), from skeptesthai "to reflect, look, view" (see scope (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scope) (1)). The extended sense of "one with a doubting attitude" first recorded 1615. The sk- spelling is an early 17c. Gk. revival and is preferred in U.S.

"Skeptic does not mean him who doubts, but him who investigates or researches as opposed to him who asserts and thinks that he has found." [Miguel de Unamuno, "Essays and Soliloquies," 1924]

I too, am a skeptic. I continue to ask questions.

I am on neither side except the side of factual science.

halva

11-22-2008, 08:08 PM

What makes you think YOU can choose which side you are on, and/or whether or not you are on a side?

Some people say that they are not interested in WAR, but war, you see, may be interested in them!!!

I would have thought that as a good Christian you would be more conscious of this aspect to human life in this vale of tears.

foot_soldier

11-23-2008, 08:01 PM

More from Watson

http://www.prisonplanet.com/global-cooling-record-low-temperatures-hit-america.html

Watson says, "all the evidence...." . Well, I think he needs to visit scientific interpretation sites rather than take a few temps in this tiny time period and call it a global trend.

Notice how he spins the "climate change" as a twisting to the cooling trend rather than the actual reality it reflects: CHANGE and in a "chaotic" (FS) manner. Too bad Watson can't realize underlying causes for the changes.

I received this tonight from a good friend:

November 23, 2008
Anatomy of a Zombie Lie
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/23/9488/3386/438/662648

A few days ago some of us science-y bloggers were invited on a conference call with the Obama energy and environmental transition team. It was hopeful -- and freaking weird to be taken seriously by a White House team of any kind! And yet I couldn't help but wonder if they have a firm idea of the scope of the misinformation they're up against.

Just as one small example, you can't spend much time online discussing climate change without coming across the undead talking point, "In the 70s, all the scientists were predicting a new ice age, so why should we listen to them now." To hear the usual suspects tell it today, the earth science community was in a fenzied panic, claiming the ice was about the begin another long trek south. Like most zombie lies, this one is based on a few grains of truth, and a whole lotta whoppers (.pdf):

Despite active efforts to answer these questions, the following pervasive myth arose: there was a consensus among climate scientists of the 1970s that either global cooling or a full-fledged ice age was imminent. A review of the climate science literature from 1965 to 1979 shows this myth to be false. The myth’s basis lies in a selective misreading of the texts both by some members of the media at the time and by some observers today.

Back then, the temperature record did show a decline around 1940 followed by a sideways trend through the mid 70s. That item caused a discussion to break out between two camps. Both camps suspected increased industrial activity on the heels of the Great Depression was forcing the climate askew, but in opposite directions.

When stuff burns, two primary constituents are smoke and greenhouse gases (GHGs). In terms of climate, they tend to balance each other. Particles of soot reflect sunlight and cool the surroundings. GHGs retain reflected heat and warm things up. During the 70s, climate scientists debated which trend would win out. The smart money was on the more persistent GHGs because they were forecast to hang around longer and thus accumulate more than smoke particles. But suspecting and showing in science are not the same. With factory output on the sharp rise, and limited by 1970s computing technology, it was a challenge to accurately model the fiendishly complex dynamics to make evidence based predictions on which trend would ultimately prevail.

Another ongoing debate during the 70s was over the triggers of Pleistocene Ice Ages. This one had nothing to do with anthropogenic factors: these climate shifts occurred before human civilization existed and spanned periods of time measured in many thousands of years. One leading candidate was the subtle interplay between cyclical changes in the shape of earth's orbit and periodic changes in the earth's axis. Scientists worked to determine the precise time in a meta-cycle when ice would retreat or advance.

Of course, the Me Generation had its share of climate change skeptics. Given the relative lack of data, and the absence of industry funded think-tanks and lobbyists to print astroturf, they were less visible in the public square. But, a look back at the peer reviewed research reveals very few papers predicting cooling and quite a few predicting warming. Of those that did lean cooler, some started with a hypothetical assumption such as "IF the soot was tripled, THEN ... cooling."

These discussions and others like them produced a rich source of ready made, peer reviewed quotes ripe for taking out of context. Mix all that up with a few skeptical claims and a dash of pop science, and the material to produce a sensationalist article with slick graphics hyping the onset of an ice age, is all there. That's exactly what happened. That's really all there is to it..... (continued)