Climate Change

[Boomer Chick]

Global warming?

http://somalinet.com/news/world/Somalia/506

Snowfall in Somalia reported
Wed. June 01, 2005 10:36 am.

The first snowfall on this part of the world has claimed one life and caused extensive damage to properties. Puntland, northeastern part of Somalia has never recorded snowfall before last night when snow storms with high winds destroyed homes in Rako town.

The storm left a blanket of snow on the ground, something residents had never seen in their lives before. Aside from this unexplained snowfall on this tropical land, Somalia has experienced very strange weather in the past few months.

Floods killed people and forced rivers to overflow banks in almost all parts of the country. Many cities from Hargeisa in the north to Baladweyn in central were affected badly by heavy rains and floods. Many people were killed and thousands of livestock washed away by this strange weather. The country is still struggling to recover from last month’s killer weather.

With no effective central government, Somalia doesn’t have weather prediction or climate monitoring systems in place. Somalis think this unusual weather and last night’s previously unheard of snowfall are part of the global warming phenomena.

***

:?

[jayreynolds]

Global warming?

http://somalinet.com/news/world/Somalia/506

Snowfall in Somalia reported
Wed. June 01, 2005 10:36 am.

The first snowfall on this part of the world has claimed one life and caused extensive damage to properties. Puntland, northeastern part of Somalia has never recorded snowfall before last night when snow storms with high winds destroyed homes in Rako town.

The storm left a blanket of snow on the ground, something residents had never seen in their lives before.?

For the reasons mentioned on this thread, I agree this was most certainly a hailstorm.
http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=63462&highlight=somalia+snow
A similar incident happened in Los Angelesin 2003, looks just like snow.(see photo):
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2003-11-13-freak-storm_x.htm

[Boomer Chick]

For the reasons mentioned on this thread, I agree this was most certainly a hailstorm.
http://www.storm2k.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=63462&highlight=somalia+snow
A similar incident happened in Los Angelesin 2003, looks just like snow.(see photo):
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2003-11-13-freak-storm_x.htm

Why did they report it as "snow" then, if it was hail? Don't you think people even in Somalia know the difference between hail and snow? Seems a bit racist to me! ;)

http://www.weather-forecast.com/locations/Galcayo.1to3.shtml

Global floodwatch:

http://www.hewsweb.org/floods/

Interesting forum by Somalians about Somalia:
http://www.somaliuk.com/Forums/index.php?topic=1693.0

Puntland is in the Northeast. From the looks of Somalia, it isn't that far fetched to see snow in that area.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/List-of-countries-receiving-snowfall

Will take your comments into consideration, thanks.

BC

[Boomer Chick]

Senate Defeats Move to Cap Climate Gases
June 22, 2005 8:33 PM EDT

WASHINGTON - The Senate soundly defeated a proposal Wednesday for mandatory reductions in heat-trapping pollution that may be warming the Earth. Supporters managed to get five fewer votes than they did two years ago.

The proposal to cap greenhouse gases at 2000 levels, within five years, lost by a 60-38 vote. It was a victory for President Bush's policies that focus on voluntary actions by industry to address the problem.

Separately, the Senate agreed to give Washington clear authority to override states' objections to the location of liquefied natural gas terminals.

Senators rejected, by 52-45, an amendment to a broad energy bill that would have allowed governors to veto a federal permit for such a terminal because of state concerns about safety or environmental harm.

Proponents said deciding where to put these facilities was a federal matter because imports will help meet a growing demand for natural gas and perhaps lower prices. But opponents of the idea said states should have a greater say because of concerns about possible tanker spills and terrorism.

"We're not talking about the siting of a neighborhood ballpark or a Wal-Mart," said GOP Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine, which has rejected several LNG projects. "It's a states' rights issue, plain and simple."

The debate about the climate was seen by some as a barometer of congressional support for Bush's strategy. His approach has come under criticism from environmentalists and some European leaders who say it does not adequately address one of the most pressing environmental issues.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., urged his colleagues to support the measure he sponsored with Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., though he realized the long odds.

"I can take the temperature" of the Senate, McCain said.

On Tuesday, senators had approved modest proposals that would require no cuts in emissions but would increase support for new, clean-energy and carbon-capturing technologies.

"The evidence is now compelling, overwhelming. The world knows that climate change is real," McCain said. "Those who have debunked this and continue to debunk it will have somebody to answer to in not too many years from now."

The approach approved on Tuesday was "meaningless" and "a fig leaf," he said, to hide the fact that the U.S. is doing little to reduce this kind of pollution. Many scientists believe it is trapping heat in the atmosphere and causing the Earth to warm.

Two years ago, the McCain-Lieberman proposal got 43 votes when it was offered as part of an energy bill two years ago.

Opponents said mandatory caps on greenhouse emissions would hurt the economy while driving the coal and other industries out of business. They also said such caps would do little to solve the climate problem because emissions are continuing to grow in China and elsewhere.

"The reason this bill can't pass is because it can't be implemented," said Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M.

He said Bush is pressing for voluntary measures to rein in the growth in emissions "and I don't argue with him."

Sen. James Inhofe, one of the leading skeptics of climate change science, said, "Energy prices and the economy is what we're talking about." Inhofe, R-Okla., said the mandatory caps would be "devastating" to industry because of their cost.

When it came to imports of liquefied natural gas, many senators from coastal states objected to a part of the energy bill that says federal regulators have "exclusive" authority in the final say about where a facility is built.

"States must have a role in siting LNG facilities to protect the welfare of their citizens," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.

She failed in an attempt to add proposals that would have given governors the right to veto a federal siting decision.

Energy experts predict a soaring growth of LNG imports over the next 20 years to make up for a shortfall of domestic natural gas. Currently, there are only four import terminals. But some 40 new facilities have been proposed; perhaps one-third of them are expected to be built.

"Our biggest challenge is the price of natural gas. More needs to be imported," said Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tenn., a former governor.

Domenici said a project still would need various zoning, environmental and other permits, and that governors would have input in any siting decision.

"There is no intention in our legislation that local authorities be usurped," he insisted.

A report last year by the Sandia National Laboratory concluded that a terrorist attack on a tanker carrying liquefied natural gas would create an intense fire at a terminal. The fire would cause significant property damage and seriously burn people who were as far as a mile away from the facility.

LNG now accounts for only about 3 percent of U.S. natural gas use. The Energy Department estimates the market share will grow to more than 20 percent by 2025 because of a decline in domestic natural gas supplies.

---

On the Net:

White House Council of Environmental Quality: http://www.whitehouse.gov/ceq

Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee: http://energy.senate.gov/public/

Center for LNG: http://www.lngfacts.org/

Federal Energy Regulatory Commission: www.ferc.gov

Sandia National Laboratory: http://www.sandia.gov/

[Big_Gay_Ed]

Brutal heat wave in South Central Asia

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/stormcenter/2005-06-23-Asia-heat_x.htm?POE=WEAISVA

Death toll hits 390 in Asia heat wave
NEW DELHI (AP) — A blistering heat wave has been blamed for at least 390 deaths across India and Pakistan, but officials said Thursday that monsoon rains could bring relief next week.

A mother cools her children in the River Ganges in Allahabad, India.
Rajesh Kumar Singh, via AP

At least seven people, including two women, collapsed and died in New Delhi on Wednesday as temperatures here reached a sauna-like 113°F. That and another 16 deaths elsewhere in India brought the number of deaths from the heat wave to more than 300 over the past two months, officials said.

In neighboring Pakistan, residents sweated in 118°F weather. The heat left more than 60 people dead this week. In Bangladesh 32 people have died.

Meteorologists said temperatures in India were unusually high for June, at least 10°F above the normal range for the month.

Hot weather was found elsewhere in Asia, too. In fast developing China, some residents put their new prosperity to use by flicking on air conditioning units. Power use in Beijing hit a record high as temperatures there passed 108°F, reports said Thursday.

The Chinese government advised the public to stay indoors during the hottest hours of the day, and street vendors said sales of cold tea and ice cream were up.

Most of the dead on the Indian subcontinent, meanwhile, were among the old and the poor, who lack proper shelter and adequate drinking water. Also, the searing heat was made worse by power cuts that shut off fans and water pumps.

Many places in northern India were facing acute water shortages, with wells and ponds going dry and government water supplies running short. In the town of Kurukshetra in Haryana, irate residents blocked the main highway for several hours on Wednesday to protest power outages and lack of drinking water.

In Pakistan, nine people have died over the past two days in southern Punjab province, where temperatures climbed to a dizzying 118ºF on Wednesday.

[Big_Gay_Ed]

And very bad floods in China. Over 500 people have died because of the floods. :(

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050623233309990006

China Says Death Toll in Flooding Tops 500
By STEPHANIE HOO, AP

BEIJING (June 24) - Record-high floodwaters rushed through southern China's industrial heart Friday, putting factories and railway lines in the path of torrents that have killed at least 536 people nationwide in the past two weeks.

Government forecasters warned of more ''torrential rains'' in the densely populated south, especially north of Hong Kong around the Pearl River Delta - a hub for China's booming export industries.

The Pearl River was swelling late Friday, the official Xinhua News Agency reported, calling it ''the largest flood peak in the region's history.''

Across southern China, rains and mudslides have killed at least 97 people this week and left another 41 missing, the agency said.

About 1.5 million people have been evacuated from a six-province swath, while total economic losses were estimated at $2.5 billion, state media reported.

Especially hard-hit was Guangdong province, which borders Hong Kong and is China's most populous region, with more than 100 million people.

Road and railway traffic was cut in some areas, including the main Beijing-Hong Kong railroad line.

So far, most damage in Guangdong appears to be to farms, with export-oriented factories largely unaffected, said Ruby Zhu, China economist for the Hong Kong General Chamber of Commerce.

''But if it gets more serious, we're not sure what will happen in Guangdong province,'' she said.

A front-page photo in the Guangzhou Daily newspaper, published in Guangdong's provincial capital, showed floodwaters so high in one town they nearly reached the top of telephone poles.

High water levels could spread sewage, polluting drinking water and raising health risks as well as damaging crops, said Alistair Henley, the Beijing representative of the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies.

''There will be a lot of suffering, particularly for the rural people in neighboring counties,'' Henley said.

The nationwide death toll of 536 was higher than most of the rainy seasons of the past decade - though still below that of 1998, when 4,150 people were killed in summer flooding in central and northeastern China.

China suffers hundreds of flood deaths every year during its June-August rains. Rivers overflow and water rushes down mountains stripped of trees following decades of intensive farming and inattention to the environment.

State television Friday showed people clinging to rubber hoses to avoid being swept away, as well as soldiers placing babies in straw baskets to be lowered with ropes and pulleys into wooden rowboats.

Soldiers and civilians formed brigades to fill and carry sandbags to shore up faltering dams and riverbanks, in a country where most labor is still done by hand.

Flooding in parts of Guangxi, west of Guangdong on China's southern coast, was the worst in a century in the poor, mountainous region, according to state media.

Authorities in Macau, the former Portuguese colony west of Hong Kong at the mouth of the Pearl River, issued a flood warning, saying


Residents navigate a flooded street in the outskirts of the southern Chinese city of Wuzhou.

[foot_soldier]

One of the first things I heard on the news this morning was the comment by a reporter that "it's so hot in south Asia that people are dropping dead."

[jayreynolds]

One of the first things I heard on the news this morning was the comment by a reporter that "it's so hot in south Asia that people are dropping dead."
It's almost as if it were summertime already!

Seriously, folks, even the Indians are talking about how poverty is the real killer there:
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=73344

The forecast for Phoenix regularly goes up to 110F, and no one seems bothered.
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/redirect.php?wfo=psr

I know, I know, "it's a 'dry heat'................

[foot_soldier]

"Summertime" - why of course!

People have always dropped dead by the hundreds in the summertime. We just never noticed before.

June 22, 2005
Asia heat wave kills at least 375
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050622/india_nm/india_206849

BOMBAY (Reuters) - At least 375 people have died from sunstroke and dehydration in a month-long heat wave sweeping India, Nepal, Pakistan and Bangladesh, as South Asia endures one of its hottest summers on record, authorities said.

Temperatures hit 50 degrees Celsius in some parts of South Asia this week, parching fields, emptying dams and drying river beds ahead of the annual monsoon.

Freak weather extended as far as northern China, where the heat set off explosives at a chemical plant in Shanxi province that injured hundreds. In central Chongqing city, authorities opened old bomb shelters so people can cool off.

Worst hit was Orissa, where almost 100 people were reported killed from the heat.

Streets in the region emptied and many cities and villages resembled ghost towns as residents stayed indoors to avoid the sun. The state ordered government offices to close before noon.

"The heat wave along with occasional power-cuts had made life miserable here," said Lingaraj Panda, a local resident..... (continued)

June 26, 2005
More Than 100 Die in Pakistan Heat Wave
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-pakistan-heat-deaths,0,3573966.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

LAHORE, Pakistan -- More than a week of sweltering heat has left more than 100 people dead in Pakistan, many of them in the country's eastern Punjab province, officials said Sunday.

Temperatures have soared up to 122 degrees in some parts of Punjab, and in the capital Islamabad Saturday was the hottest day in 11 years with 113 degree temperatures, said Imran Siddiqi, an official at the Pakistan Meteorological Department.

Since the heat wave began more than a week ago, 105 people have died in Punjab, said Javed Asghar, a health ministry official in the province's capital of Lahore. Sunstroke, dehydration and food poisoning have caused most of the deaths, he said.

At least 19 deaths have been reported in the southern Sindh, southwestern Baluchistan and North West Frontier provinces in recent days.

In the neighboring countries of India and Bangladesh, a heat wave has left more than 400 dead in the past two months..... (continued)

June 27, 2005
Heat wave alert as southern Europe bakes
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/050627/1/3t6jd.html

Southern Europe was on heat wave alert faced with baking temperatures and drought conditions, two years after the heat claimed tens of thousands of lives across the continent.

Governments in France, Portugal, Spain and Italy have rushed to put in place emergency measures to deal with the heat's worst effects, keen to show they have learned from a heat wave that caught them unawares in 2003, with Italy and France particularly hard-hit.

Despite refreshing morning rainfall in Madrid, much of southern and central Spain has been sweltering in temperatures reaching 40 degrees Celsius (104 Fahrenheit) for weeks, though the weekend did bring some respite.

The southern region of Andalucia has already put in place a text-messaging alert system to warn the elderly and the infirm living alone, as well as parents of very young children, of impending high temperatures above 41 Celsius..... (continued)

[foot_soldier]

June 27, 2005
Seven Deaths Linked to Italy Heat Wave
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-italy-heat-wave,0,7200271.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines

ROME -- Italy's health minister said Monday a heat wave linked to at least seven deaths is putting the lives of 1 million elderly Italians at risk and announced steps to protect people over 80 who live alone.

Health Minister Francesco Storace said Italian authorities wanted to avoid a repeat of the fatalities of the summer of 2003, when a prolonged heat wave which scorched Europe was blamed for thousands of deaths. Many of those deaths were of elderly people who lived alone.

"We are alarmed," Storace told a news conference outlining the measures, which include allowing health clinics access to lists of names of those most at risk -- people older than 80 who live alone and who have had repeated recent hospitalizations. He said the number of those at risk was 1 million.

The measures also include house calls on those at risk, TV and radio spots reminding people to drink lots of water and stay inside during the hottest hours, and a toll-free number offering advice on how to cope.

This early summer heat wave has been linked to at least seven fatalities in Italy, including an Austrian tourist who collapsed from a heart attack Sunday while strolling in the northern resort of Jesolo, La Repubblica newspaper reported.

Northern Italy has been hit hardest by the heat wave, with temperatures in Milan, Florence and Turin rising above 95 degrees..... (continued)

June 27, 2005
Wilted Europe eyes global warming (and air conditioners)
A searing heat wave closes stores, opens windows, and gives new life to perceptions that America is inattentive to global warming.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0627/p07s01-woeu.html

"I'm sorry, sir, but we can't take credit cards today. It's the heat, you know."

The smiling waitress at a sidewalk cafe in this European capital more accustomed to freezing winters than wilting summers was dead serious. Apparently because of what French speakers call la canicule - the heat wave - the credit card I'd presented was not acceptable. Yes, phone lines were working, but the heat-averse card machine was not. So it would have to be cold cash..... (continued)

June 27, 2005
13 hospitalized after lightning strikes ballfield; Pool drowning tied to day's high heat
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/06/27/13_hospitalized_after_lightning_strikes_ballfield/

Powerful storms triggered by days of high heat sent six adults and seven teenage girls at a Rockland softball game to hospitals yesterday when a lightning bolt struck a pine tree near the field and electrified the ground, authorities said.

Earlier in Weston, a 37-year-old man drowned when he sought refuge from the heat in a pool, though police said he did not know how to swim.

The drowning occurred about two hours before lightning storms wreaked havoc from Rockland to the Merrimack Valley. In Methuen, two houses were struck by lightning about 6 p.m. and caught fire. One firefighter was taken to the hospital for smoke inhalation and released, said Methuen Fire Captain Cliff Gallant.

The girls injured by lightning in Rockland, all 14 and 15 years old, play on the Holy Family CYO girls softball team, run by a local Catholic church, said Rockland Deputy Fire Chief Bill Ferguson.

The adults and the girls were conscious after the incident and were taken to the hospitals as a precaution.

( ... )

Thunderstorms rolled across pockets of the state, cooling temperatures after two days of 90-degree heat and oppressive humidity.

Torrential rains in the northwest corner of the state downed 100 trees in Northfield and rained hail the size of ping-pong balls on Amherst, according to the National Weather Service in Taunton.

Today should bring some relief, with storms clearing up and temperatures dipping to the mid-80s. The average high temperature for this time of year is 79 degrees.

( ... )

But the heat also brought tragedy. Weston police were called about 2:20 p.m. by a resident of Concord Road whose caretaker was spotted languishing in a pool.

Yahaya Isabirye of Walpole apparently tried to escape yesterday's heat by venturing into a small, fenced-in pool at the side of the house. Isabirye was pronounced dead at Newton-Wellesley Hospital, a spokeswoman said.

Fox25-TV reported last night that Isabirye worked hard and was about a month away from bringing his family to the United States from Uganda. (Full story at link.)

[jayreynolds]

Oh, dear, now lightning and drowning in swimming pools are relevant to "climate change".

What will they think of next?

Shark attacks?

[Boomer Chick]

Remote Sensing of climate change and the environment! Excellent resource page!

http://sedac.ciesin.columbia.edu/rs-treaties/bytes.html

[halva]

Arnold Schwarzenegger: It's not a time for talk. It's a time for action

The Terminator: There's no doubt about the science. Now we must all gear our economies to take on global warming
Published: 03 July 2005

I don't know how apparent it is to people in Britain, but California has long been a leader in environmental protection. We have never taken for granted the clean air, clean water and natural beauty that make our state such a desirable place to live, to work, and to raise our families. That žs why, when I became Governor of California, I announced a bold agenda to continue and strengthen our commitment to meeting the many environmental challenges we face.

During the past 18 months, we created the 25 million-acre Sierra Nevada Conservancy, the largest conservancy in the nation; we opened the path to the Hydrogen Highway, which will encourage the building of hydrogen fuelling stations and the use of hydrogen-fuelled vehicles; we sponsored the first Ocean Protection Act in the nation to protect and restore our ocean resources; and we secured permanent funding to reduce emissions from dirty engines and equipment.

In addition, with our Green Building Initiative, we have put the biggest user of electricity in California - the state government itself - on an energy diet. By requiring new state buildings to use the latest environmentally friendly and energy efficient design and construction methods, we will reduce electricity and water use by more than 20 per cent in our state-owned facilities.

Now it is time for Californians to seriously address the issue of climate change and its potential to create havoc with our environment and economy. The debate is over. We know the science. We see the threat posed by changes in our climate. And we know the time for action is now.

I launched our effort when California hosted the United Nations World Environment Day Conference in San Francisco last month, where leaders from around the world gathered to discuss our shared responsibility for protecting the earth. It was there that I signed an executive order to establish clear and ambitious goals to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in our state: by the year 2010 our goal is to reduce our emissions to less than those we produced in 2000; by 2020 our goal is to make our emissions lower than 1990 levels; and by 2050 our goal is to reduce overall emissions to a full 80 per cent below those we produced in 1990.

Greenhouse gases are emitted from every sector of the economy, and these pollutants blanket the globe, trapping heat and creating the "greenhouse" effect, often referred to as global warming. Global warming threatens California's water supply, public health, agriculture, coastlines and forests - our entire economy and way of life. We have no choice but to take action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

In order to achieve our goals, we are implementing California's landmark greenhouse gas law, which requires lower-emitting vehicles to be sold in our state, starting in 2009. We are accelerating the timetable to get more energy from renewable resources, such as wind, solar, geo-thermal and bio-mass conversion to 20 per cent by 2010 and 33 per cent by 2020. We have implemented the world's most stringent appliance and building efficiency standards. We are aggressively pursuing with the legislature my proposal to have one million solar-powered homes and buildings in California to save energy and reduce pollution. We are greening the state's fleet of government vehicles, to be the most fuel-efficient in the world.

These steps are great for the environment and great for our economy, too. Many people have falsely assumed that you have to choose between protecting the environment and protecting the economy. Nothing could be further from the truth. In California, we will do both.

That is why I am travelling around the state and my administration is holding a series of conservation summits for businesses around California, spreading the word that pollution reduction is good.

Pollution reduction has long been a money saver for businesses. It lowers operating costs, raises profits and creates new and expanded markets for environmental technology.

Many private businesses in California are cutting greenhouse gas emissions by simply improving efficiency. Others are also implementing cutting-edge hydrogen fuel technologies, installing advanced solar power systems and constructing environmentally friendly buildings.

And best of all, many California companies are participating in the public and private partnerships that are being formed with the state and some of our leading universities and research centres to find innovative means to create a cleaner and healthier environment.

All of these environmental technologies will allow us to conserve energy, cut pollution, protect our natural resources and create jobs for Californians. We must all accept the challenge to protect our environment. In California, I am pleased that we are once again providing leadership in this critical area. We understand that in this world in which we live, our actions sometimes have unintended consequences for our land, air and water. As John Muir, an immigrant from your islands who launched America's conservation movement here in California, once said: "When one tugs at a single thing in nature he finds it attached to the rest of the world." I ask citizens and governments everywhere to do their part by conserving energy, reducing the use of fossil fuels, reducing waste and taking every opportunity to work together for a cleaner, healthier tomorrow. It is not enough for us to be just caretakers of the world that we have been given, we must leave it a better place for future generations.

This is our duty to those who share this world with us and to those who follow us.

Arnold Schwarzenegger is Governor of California

[Hooligan]

Overwhelming Majority of Americans Favors US Joining
With G8 Members to Limit Greenhouse Gas Emissions

Virtually all respondents—94%—said the US should limit its greenhouse gases at least as much as the other developed countries do on average.

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/ClimateChange/html/climate070505.html

[Hooligan]

I can't believe it...


Bush says man contributes to global warming
Wed Jul 6, 2005 9:34 AM BST

COPENHAGEN (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush said on Wednesday he recognised that man contributes to global climate change but remained unyielding in his opposition to the Kyoto accord on the issue.

"Listen, I recognize the surface of the Earth is warmer, and that an increase in greenhouse gases caused by humans is contributing to the problem," he told a news conference during a visit to Denmark on his way to the G8 summit in Scotland.

He said: "Kyoto didn't work for the United States and frankly it didn't work for the world" because many developing nations were not included. He said he was pushing for a "post-Kyoto era" at the G8 summit.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-07-06T083413Z_01_MCC630843_RTRUKOC_0_BUSH-CLIMATE.xml

[foot_soldier]

Well, he's the "commander-in-chief", see, and he "doesn't have to explain himself to anybody." People may need to explain themselves to him... That's what's nice about being "commander."

Note how cavalierly he relegates Kyoto to history - as if just because the U.S. rejected it, it therefore never existed.

Nice touch.

This guy just never quits.

[halva]

Reposted from the new 'Ama Lahi' forum:

What new element is added to the discussion by the documentary we are to see tonight? It is the original idea that atmospheric pollution, specifically visible particle pollution, not invisible pollution from greenhouse gases, is something to be welcomed in the sense that it has a cooling effect, mitigating the warming caused by those greenhouse gases.

This conception is virtually unknown to the general public, though commonplace among climate scientists. Its least unknown expression is doubtless the 1997 text of Edward Teller ‘Sunscreen for Planet Earth’.

In public discussion on climate change the image that is projected is that on the one hand the Europeans and the rest of the world support the Treaty of Kyoto as a necessary measure in combating fossil-fuel dependence while on the other the Americans sabotage Kyoto because Mr. Bush and his supporters have not been persuaded of the reality of anthropogenic climate change.

I see this representation of the situation as a caricature. For a start, the Americans do not interpret the scientific data differently. This is confirmed by the content of last year’s ‘Pentagon Report’ on climate change. It is also confirmed by refutations by President Bush’s scientific advisor in the course of the current G8 negotiations of claims that “the White House does not believe in global warming�.

How can one explain the political gulf separating the USA from the rest of the world on this issue?

The answer may be provided by the climate scientists Peter Cox, who towards the end of the ‘Global Dimming’ documentary says: “If we carry on pumping out the particles it will have terrible impact on human health, I mean particles are involved in all sorts of respiratory diseases… If you fiddle with the radiative balance of the planet, you affect all sorts of circulation patterns like monsoons, which would have horrible effects on people. So it would be extremely difficult, in fact impossible, to cancel out the greenhouse effect just by carrying on pumping out particles, even if it wasn't for the fact that particles are damaging for human health.�

Bear in mind that in the course of the controversy over the political declaration on climate change to be issued by the G8, the Observer newspaper revealed that the US government insisted on deleting from the final communiquι the statement that ‘every year atmospheric pollution causes respiratory problems and premature deaths for millions of people.’

The real difference between the United States and the rest of the world on the subject of climate change has to do not with diagnosis but with treatment. The treatment preferred by the American government and its supporting oil companies appears much worse than the disease itself.

Of course the so-called ‘mitigation policies’ are not merely a national preference of the United States. They are the strategy of all the international community, including relevant agencies of the United Nations such as the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). It is for this reason that open critics of the strategy - and there are a number of them, particularly in Italy and the German-speaking world - do not enjoy very good relations with climate scientists and are in fact marginalised.

Nevertheless, in my opinion it is more expedient for public discussion to be conducted with heretics such as activists who reject IPCC policies on climate mitigation than it is for there to be inclusion of so-called climate change ‘sceptics’ who are funded by oil companies and oppose the IPCC for opposite reasons: because this committee of the United Nations seeks to end dependence of the international economy on fossil fuels.

(The implication is that Bush's blathering about climate change not being proved to be caused by humans has been internal-politically motivated flattering of his constituency unrelated to actual policy. W.H. )

[foot_soldier]

If we're going to have to share space here in the Science section with threads about Fendi bags I think it's reasonable to have the threads that are actually science-related on top.

[Boomer Chick]

Love that Robert Redford!

Mayors Meet to Discuss Global Warming -- June 10th in Utah!

http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=217703

If you find anything else about it, that would be nice!

[Boomer Chick]

We have neglected to include a particular theory regarding global warming. This theory regards the core of our planet. According to PhD, J. Marvin Herndon, instead of a molton core of iron and other metals, he purports that the center is a giant nuclear reactor.

See his total theory here:

http://www.nuclearplanet.com/

I'm investigating the latest online science gossip that just recently our earth sent into space a surge of energy. If any of you can locate credible information on this, I would appreciate.

According to Herndon as far as my present understanding, the warming of the planet may be occurring from within.

Will post my findings soon.

[Boomer Chick]

Global Warming Roils Congress

By Dan Vergano, USA TODAY

A heated war of words over a global warming research paper has boiled over in Congress. Two powerful Republicans are brawling over an investigation that one calls "misguided and illegitimate."

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2005-07-18-warming-congress_x.htm


Washington, DC 20515
Friday, July 15, 2005

Dear Chairman Barton and Chairman Whitfield,

As scientists with expertise relevant to the understanding of Earth’s changing climate, we are writing to help inform the inquiry you are conducting on the work of Drs. Michael Mann, Ray Bradley, and Malcolm Hughes. We understand that as a representative of the American people, you have a responsibility to inform yourself and your colleagues about scientific knowledge that is relevant to policy decisions. However, we are deeply concerned about your approach and we respectfully submit the following clarifying context.

In your letters of June 23, 2005, to these scientists, you state, “We open this review because this dispute surrounding your studies bears directly on important questions about the federally funded work upon which climate studies rely.� In fact, the specific findings of Mann et al. constitute only one item among literally thousands of pieces of evidence that have contributed to the present consensus on the serious nature of climate change. While the 2001 report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) highlighted this work as a useful illustration of our understanding of the impact of fossil fuel-related emissions on climate change, in no way does the report suggest that it is an essential element of that understanding. This understanding has been developed over many years from many diverse lines of inquiry.
There are legitimate areas of scientific debate over the best methodologies to apply in reconstructing historic temperatures, as there are in many topics of current scientific interest. However, the essential points of the Mann et al. study.that the late twentieth century likely included the warmest decades in the last millennium.are supported by numerous other studies. We refer the committee to the full reports by the IPCC, the 2001 review of the Third Assessment report by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, and the June 7 statement from the NAS and other leading science academies for balanced assessments of the current state of the science.

We also note that much of the information that you have requested from the scientists involved is unrelated to the stated purpose of your investigation. Requests to provide all working materials related to hundreds of publications stretching back decades can be seen as intimidation.intentional or not.and thereby risks compromising the independence of scientific opinion that is vital to the preeminence of American science as well as to the flow of objective advice to the government.

Letter to Chairman Barton and Chairman Whitfield 2 7/15/2005

We welcome your interest in the science of climate change and hope that as a community, we can help your committee shape public policy in the light of the best available scientific knowledge.

Respectfully,

Michael Bender
Professor
Department of Geosciences
Princeton University
Princeton, New Jersey
Member, National Academy of Sciences

Robert W. Corell
Senior Fellow
AMS Policy Program
American Meteorological Society
Washington, DC
Chair
Arctic Climate Impact Assessment

Christopher B. Field
Director
Department of Global Ecology
Carnegie Institution of Washington
Stanford, CA
Member, National Academy of Sciences

James E. Hansen
Director
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Goddard Institute for Space Studies
Columbia University Earth Institute
New York City, NY
Member, National Academy of Sciences

John P. Holdren
Teresa and John Heinz Professor of Environmental Policy
Harvard University
Cambridge, MA
Director, Woods Hole Research Center
President-Elect American Association for the Advancement of Science
Member, National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering,
and American Academy of Arts and Sciences

[With 3 pages of scientists signing and copies to a long list of Congresspeople. ]

Realclimate.org chimes in:

http://www.realclimate.org/

***

[Boomer Chick]

http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Clinton+meets+Mandela&id=76181


Tuesday, July 19, 2005 (Johannesburg):


Former US president Bill Clinton today sounded a warning against the dangers of global warming, as he met young South Africans and Nelson Mandela.

"Not very far from you in the South Pole in the last 10 years, 12 chunks of ice the size of Rhode Island have broken off," Clinton told volunteers with City Year South Africa, a youth community service organization supported by his foundation.

"If this continues for another couple of decades, part of South Africa will be under water, and we will lose 50 feet of Manhattan Island in New York."

Clinton is on a six-nation tour in Africa to check on projects funded by his foundation and attend a lecture marking Mandela's 87th birthday. (AP)

[magistre]

http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Clinton+meets+Mandela&id=76181


Tuesday, July 19, 2005 (Johannesburg):


Former US president Bill Clinton today sounded a warning against the dangers of global warming, as he met young South Africans and Nelson Mandela.

"Not very far from you in the South Pole in the last 10 years, 12 chunks of ice the size of Rhode Island have broken off," Clinton told volunteers with City Year South Africa, a youth community service organization supported by his foundation.

"If this continues for another couple of decades, part of South Africa will be under water, and we will lose 50 feet of Manhattan Island in New York."

Clinton is on a six-nation tour in Africa to check on projects funded by his foundation and attend a lecture marking Mandela's 87th birthday. (AP)



:rolleyes:
Have you seen the map that projects what would happen if the ocean level rose by only 3 feet (I think)? We lose tho entire state of Florida and northern Missisipi and Alabama become beachfront property.

[Boomer Chick]

:rolleyes:
Have you seen the map that projects what would happen if the ocean level rose by only 3 feet (I think)? We lose tho entire state of Florida and northern Missisipi and Alabama become beachfront property.

Yes, and I wonder about other low lying coastal areas in the world, too. As the earth warms, the atmospheric systems activate, evaporation of the waters increases, and so the closed system that is our very thin biosphere may actually continue to return the water to the continents which wouldn't be so bad. I suspect another small ice age after an interval of warm up, though. Who am I though?

We will adapt, even if the sea levels rise.

Governors meeting in Utah and some highlights:

http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/23608/

;)

[magistre]

Yes, and I wonder about other low lying coastal areas in the world, too. As the earth warms, the atmospheric systems activate, evaporation of the waters increases, and so the closed system that is our very thin biosphere may actually continue to return the water to the continents which wouldn't be so bad. I suspect another small ice age after an interval of warm up, though. Who am I though?

We will adapt, even if the sea levels rise.

Governors meeting in Utah and some highlights:

http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/23608/

;)

It is almost as if we were observing a living organism(yes,I know that we actually are) that being inundated with fresh water is throwing it off and when it continues to be returned to the oceans the only "choice" the ecosystem will have will be to create another ice-age. But I'm afraid this one will be massive. Remember,the Earth must cleanse itself of the "virus" (mankind) it has contracted.

[Boomer Chick]

It is almost as if we were observing a living organism(yes,I know that we actually are) that being inundated with fresh water is throwing it off and when it continues to be returned to the oceans the only "choice" the ecosystem will have will be to create another ice-age. But I'm afraid this one will be massive. Remember,the Earth must cleanse itself of the "virus" (mankind) it has contracted.

;) I don't agree that our Mother Earth will cleanse itself of the human species.... so called a virus. No not at all!

I know movies portray just a scenario, but there truly are so many more scenarios you have to consider. Besides, did humans totally become extinct during the previous ice ages? Even if a polar shift happens, and I mean an axis shift, not an electro-magnetic shift, humans will survive. We all die anyway, so know that the overall plan is for our overall spiritual good. And because I believe in God, more superior species watching, and the realm of angelic beings -- I say that we can't possibly know the overall future. But I know this, that if we do care, if we do care and love one another and our environment, that we can overcome and adapt and many of us will survive in body.


Global Warming and Film Conference: International Experts Meet to Discuss Upcoming Film on Global Warming

(PRWEB) July 20, 2005 -- The Johnson Foundation will host a meeting of scientists, filmmakers, policy analysts, and foundation representatives to generate recommendations for an upcoming film on global warming based on the Venetian screenplay, WATERMARK. The meeting will be held at The Johnson Foundations’s Wingspread facility in Racine, Wisconsin, from July 22 – 24, 2005.

The experts will discuss the effects of global warming on international coastal cities using the Venetian screenplay WATERMARK as a centerpiece for discussion.

WATERMARK, a romantic drama, tells the fictional story of an American marine biologist and an Italian engineer who are passionately driven to save Venice, Italy, from sinking, but with opposite solutions. The film explores the real life problems facing the famed city, which is threatened by further devastating sinkage this century due to a combination of factors, particularly the rising of the seas, worsened by global warming. WATERMARK examines the proposed solution - the retractable dam project (MOSE) - and the controversy involving the hazards it poses to the lagoon ecosystem and global ecological balance. Film production is slated for 2006 by Bongiorno Productions, Emmy nominated, award-winning filmmakers, Marylou Tibaldo-Bongiorno and Jerome Bongiorno.

The Johnson Foundation regularly sponsors conferences in the public interest including topics dealing with Sustainable Development and the Environment at their Wingspread Conference Center. This is their first Film Conference.

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2005/7/emw263152.htm

[Boomer Chick]

For Jay !

I highly recommend the link as all references are active at the site and quite colorful as well! I pasted just to give you a sense of the article.

http://www.geocities.com/poncedeleon_1/ScientistsBackDown.htm


Climate Science Community Fails To
Back Key IPCC Finding!


(Note: this article is backed up by the assertions or lack of assertions by the scientists themselves, complete with links to their own words.)



(July 20, 2005)



Suddenly, scientists seem reluctant to assert that familiar sounding phrase:



"It is likely that the rate and duration of the warming of the 20th century is larger than any other time during the last 1,000 years".





Recently, the Climate Science Community responded to requests from a Congressional committee headed by Rep. Joe Barton that were directed at leading figures involved in creating and promoting the so called “Hockey Stick� graph.





Responses from three of the scientists and other groups have been published. Curiously, the language in these documents gives the distinct impression that the scientists no longer are prepared to defend one of two key findings of the study.



Those two findings are



Finding One:



“It is likely that the rate and duration of the warming of the 20th century is larger than any other time during the last 1,000 years."

(From the technical summary of the IPCC TAR) near bottom of page under “Surface temperatures during the pre-instrumental period from the proxy record�



Finding Two: (also from the technical summary of the IPCC TAR):



“The 1990s are likely to have been the warmest decade of the millennium in the Northern Hemisphere, and 1998 is likely to have been the warmest year...�



Keep in mind that common sense suggests that the rate change of temperature is more important.



Responses show preference for Finding Two



A reading of the those published documents, available without a subscription, shows that when reference to Finding One does appear, the wording is treacherously ambiguous and when properly read does not specify that Finding One is backed up by other independent research.



First the quotes that refer to Finding Two:



Michael Mann’s response states: (page 9)



"Studies using these data and methodologies have confirmed the primary conclusion of our work (e.g. Mann et al, 1998 and Mann et al, 1999) that the most recent decades were likely the warmest of the past 1000 years for the Northern Hemisphere on the average."



Note that nowhere in his reply does Dr. Mann refer to Finding One. Also it is odd that he should call Finding Two the “primary conclusion� since Finding Two is not about the rate change of temperature increase. (At least to the laymen’s ear)



July 13, AAAS letter :

"It should be added that the Mann et al. work was far from the only basis for the conclusion that Northern Hemisphere temperatures in the last part of the 20th century were likely the warmest in 1000 years;�



Note that nowhere in this letter is Finding One referred to.



July 15 letter from US Scientists:



"However, the essential points of the Mann et al. studythat the late twentieth century likely included the warmest decades in the last millenniumare supported by numerous other studies.â€�

Note how they say "points" and only name the one point, again nowhere does the letter refer to Finding One.



Raymond S Bradley: (page one)



“Our research, and that of many others, suggests that mean temperatures in the northern hemisphere is, in fact, higher than any time in at least the last 1000 years.�

(Quote approximate because file seems set to prevent cut and paste)

Note no reference to Finding One in the response.



Now the quotes that refer to Finding One:



Malcolm K. Hughes (page one)



This finding [was] – that the increase in 20th century northern hemisphere temperatures is “likely to have been the largest of any century during the past 1000 years� and that the “1990s was the warmest decade and 1998 the warmest year�. This finding did not rest solely on our work, as is made clear on page 133 in section 2.3.2.2 of the IPCC TAR volume – “Climate Change 2001:



Note that he is not saying that his study still supports his finding.

One can find a similar graph back to 1000 AD by Jones here:

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/fig2-21.htm

One can see the small group of scientists involved in these studies here:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/recons.html





July 7, EGU uses a twist: they use Finding One but with ambiguous language. Also, note that although the letter is addressed to Congress, unlike Mann, Bradley and Hughes, the EGU did not receive June 23 letters from Rep. Barton:



"With regard to the scientific questions addressed in the letters of June 23, we would like to point out that: (1) the scientific statements of the IPCC TAR, including the finding that the



[**]increase[**]



in 20th century northern hemisphere temperatures is “likely to have been the largest of any century during the past 1,000 years�,



are based on multiple lines of evidence, not just the questioned study by Mann et al. (1998); and (2) the results of the study by Mann et al. (1998) have been confirmed by an independent team of scientists with freely available computer code and data (Ammann and Wahl, 2005) "



Note this is only one sentence!

The subject of the sentence is the findings of the TAR, not the finding specified (Finding One), thus the statement is true but does not say what it seems to say. It does not say that the finding with the "increase in the 20th century" language is based on multiple lines of evidence.



It also does not say that Ammann confirms the finding specified, only that some results were confirmed.



Crowley: Note this is from an article not a letter to Congress



“In those reconstructions, the twentieth century

warming stands well above Northern Hemisphere

temperature fl uctuations of the last

1000 years. Other investigators, using some of

the same data but with different approaches,

have also reconstructed temperatures of the

last millennium (see Mann et al. [2003] for a

summary discussion). In general, there is more

agreement than disagreement among the

various reconstructions. The differences stem

mainly from the scaling of the oscillations,

but in all cases the late twentieth century is

anomalous in a millennial context.�



Note that this seems to refer to Finding one, but it’s not a letter to Congress.





The links for the above article came from the RealClimate website operated by scientists connected with the “Hockey Stick� study and other scientists.



Much of the controversy over the “Hockey Stick� graph has been influenced by the hard work of Steve McIntyre on his ClimateAudit website.



People following this story may jump to the conclusion that the failure to back up Finding One is the result of concern over claims made by McIntyre. This may only be part of the story, or even not the case.



Recent Studies by Anders Moberg (2005) and Hans Von Storch (2004) appear to undercut Finding one. See figure four at the following link and note that Moberg’s graphs shows much more rapid temperature change than the Hockey Stick graph in the pre-industrial era:



Hockey Stick R.I.P. from World Climate Report



************************************************** **********************

So there you have it, scientists are shying away from Finding One, yet some are still trying to promote it, even though it has apparently been refuted.

************************************************** ***************************************

The author is a Climate Change and Math hobbyist with a degree in Technology.

No compensation of any kind is received or accepted for these activities including this web page.

The contents of this page are public domain.

************************************************** ***************************************



Here are some useful links for learning more:

ClimateAudit

ClimateAudit article on the responses

RealClimate article on responses.

(Note the links to the other responses that were available without a subscription did not seem to have any reference to either Finding One or finding Two.)

UKweatherworld Climatology forum

Debunkers forum

Six tenths of a degree Celcius increase by 2100

(Energy imbalance research April 28, 2005)

Climate Change Science Realism Versus Alarmism

(Links to other story Forums, Blogs, IPCC, Wikipedia )

[Boomer Chick]

Excellent link for paleo climatology: LOTS O' STUFF !!!

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/recons.html

[Boomer Chick]

SOLAR WON INCENTIVES AND CREDIT FOR CONSUMERS


With the Senate's approval vote today of 74-26 and a successful House vote of 275-156 on Thursday, the energy bill is officially on its way to the President's desk to be signed into law.

Despite the many proclamations from lawmakers that the bill could help lower gas prices and reduce U.S. dependence on foreign sources of energy, the bill will do little to alleviate either. And, it will offer few immediate or tangible benefits for the average U.S. citizen.

"If I was a homeowner and flipping through a newspaper story on the energy bill, I would get pretty depressed at the $14 billion of giveaways for industries that, frankly, are enjoying record profits," said Rhone Resch, Executive Director of the Solar Energy Industries Association (SEIA). "But the one provision in the bill that all Americans can take advantage of right away is to install solar on their roofs."

For the first time in two decades solar technologies were granted a federal investment tax credit that will promote all forms of solar energy. This includes solar thermal systems that provide for a home's hot water, photovoltaic systems that provide electric power, solar-hybrid lighting technologies and even to the commercial developers of industrial-scale Concentrating Solar Power plants of the likes that were constructed in the California Desert in the late '70s and early '80s.

Specifically, the bill increases the existing 10 percent investment tax credit for commercial solar installations to 30 percent for two years with no cap on the amount of the credit. This applies to all property placed in service after December 31, 2005 and before January 1, 2008; credit reverts to the permanent 10 percent credit thereafter.

What could have the most impact for typical Americans, the bill also creates a new 30 percent tax credit for residential solar installations for two years; capped at $2000; applied to all property placed in service after December 31, 2005 and before January 1, 2008. Likewise, all solar technologies will be eligible but solar thermal, and solar PV are expected to make the most gains.

"If consumers have been waiting for a tax credit for solar, now is the time to do it," Resch said. "It coincides perfectly with electricity and natural gas prices skyrocketing, and if you think prices will do down, you're mistaken."

A number of other provisions included in the final bill that will greatly benefit solar, including federal loan guarantees for large-scale "innovative technologies," government solar purchase authorizations and energy service performance contracts.

Other items that can have an immediate and tangible impact for consumers across the U.S. are tax breaks for investments in energy efficiency appliances and an extension of a $2000 hybrid vehicle tax break.

The solar tax credit may appear small in relation to the majority of the bill's focus on the traditional fossil and nuclear industries but it's a major victory for solar and possibly a sign of shifting attitudes towards solar.

"I can't emphasize how much this is a huge precedent for the solar industry," said Resch who added that fuel cells were the only other non-traditional energy technology to gain a 30 percent investment tax credit.

"I had folks from Exxon coming up and saying 'how did you do this' and 'you came out of left field,'" Resch said.

And how they did it was to intensely focus the solar lobbying effort like it's rarely, if ever, been done before. Resch said the solar industry has traditionally been a fractured industry, unable to agree on a specific and focused set of policy goals. He took lessons and experience he learned in his time prior to SEIA when he was Senior Vice President of the Natural Gas Supply Association. He knew if solar was to gain anything out of this energy bill they would all have to agree on one policy goal.

"People sometimes expect for us in the solar industry to come out with that fractured face," Resch said. "It was a massive team effort where the entire solar industry pulled together to make this happen. It was the singular massage, that's why we got the 30 percent."

Solar provisions that would benifit all forms of solar were not included in any of the previous congressional efforts to enact an energy bill. Resch said the inclusion of this credit shows recognition that Congress feels that solar is an important part of the energy mix and that they want to see it grow.

At least one Congressman aggress.

"The 30 percent solar credit for consumers is great news for this nation's future energy independence," said Congressman Charles Bass (R-NH), a key negotiator of the final energy bill. "This provision will one day be viewed as the most significant renewable energy policy shift in more than two decades. Consumers driving the industry to meet high expectations and pushing the nation toward self-reliance will produce far greater results than other incentives aimed at producers and utilities."
***

Yes, it's the pony in the pile of shit, but it's a start !!!! We're going solar!

[DvdGStwrt]

Hey let me throw in Straw bale construction in the mix - just for fun :D

[Boomer Chick]

When Sun's Too Strong, Plankton Make Clouds

07.02.04


People say size doesn't matter, and that may be true for tiny plankton, those free-floating ocean plants that make up the bottom of the marine food-chain. Little plankton may be able to change the weather, and longer term climate, in ways that serve them better.

Image to right: Phytoplankton can be identified by satellite through their chlorophyll (light green). This image is a composite from the Northern Hemisphere spring seasons of 1998-2004. Click on image to enlarge. Credit: NASA/GSFC and ORBIMAGE

It's almost hard to believe, but new NASA-funded research confirms an old theory that plankton can indirectly create clouds that block some of the Sun's harmful rays. The study was conducted by Dierdre Toole of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) and David Siegel of the University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB).

The study finds that in summer when the Sun beats down on the top layer of ocean where plankton live, harmful rays in the form of ultraviolet (UV) radiation bother the little plants. UV light also gives sunburn to humans.

When plankton are bothered, or stressed by UV light, their chemistry takes over.

Image to left: New NASA-funded research confirms an old theory that ocean-dwelling microscopic single-celled organisms called plankton can indirectly create clouds that block some of the Sun's harmful rays. Click on image to view movie. (1.9 MB) Credit: NASA

The plankton try to protect themselves by producing a chemical compound called DMSP, which some scientists believe helps strengthen the plankton's cell walls. This chemical gets broken down in the water by bacteria, and changes into another substance called DMS.

DMS then filters from the ocean into the air, where it breaks down again to form tiny dust-like particles. These tiny particles are just the right size for water to condense on, which is the beginning of how clouds are formed. So, indirectly, plankton help create more clouds, and more clouds mean that less direct light reaches the ocean surface. This relieves the stress put on plankton by the Sun's harmful UV rays.

Image to right: The Sargasso sea is an irregularly-shaped region in the Atlantic Ocean that is set apart, not by the presence of land masses, but by vast expanses of seaweed, called Sargassum, that float on its surface utilizing small balloon-like floats. Credit: NASA

DMS levels peak from June through the end of September. Surprisingly, plankton levels are at a minimum during this time. That means that the number of plankton does not affect how much DMS they produce. During the summer, the study found that a whopping 77 percent of the changes in amounts of DMS were due to exposure to UV radiation. The researchers found it amazing that a single factor could have such a big affect on this process.

"For someone studying marine biology and ecology, this type of variation is absolutely incredible," Siegel said.

The researchers were also surprised to find that the DMS molecules completely refresh themselves after only three to five days. That means the plankton may react to UV rays quickly enough to impact their own weather. Toole and Siegel were surprised by the lightning-fast rate of turnover for DMS.

Image to left: The Sargasso Sea is a region of slow-moving ocean currents surrounded by rapidly-moving ocean currents, such as the Gulf Stream to its east. It is located off the coast of Bermuda. In this composite image of night-time city lights, you can see the bigger cities in the brighter areas. Click on image to enlarge. Credit: NASA, DOD

The next step for the researchers will be to see how much the added clouds from plankton actually impact climate. By figuring out how plankton react to light, scientists now have the information they need to use computer models to recreate the impacts of plankton on cloud cover. Since the white clouds can reflect sunlight back out to space, the researchers believe the plankton-made clouds may have some affect on global temperatures.

The study was funded by NASA. Studies of DMS have been funded by the National Science Foundation.

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/environment/0702_planktoncloud.html

This confirms my point in the discussion on the other thread. In fact, plankton under stress create more clouds than actually dry the atmosphere. Another example of nature's balancing systems. Cloud production changes the environment and to that end, the scientists study how cloud production not only protects plankton but how it affects other atmospheric systems.

[Boomer Chick]

14 July 2004
UV Light Turns Plankton Into Cloud Factories
Much like Dr. Evil's weather control machine, plankton may be able to change the weather, and longer term climate, in ways to benefit the tiny organism. New research confirms a theory that plankton can indirectly create clouds that block some of the Sun's harmful UV rays. The study was conducted by Dierdre Toole of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) and David Siegel of the University of California (UCSB).

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20040614015421data_trunc_sys.shtml

***

Plankton Affect The Weather And Climate
UV light also gives sunburn to humans. When plankton are bothered, or stressed
by UV light, their chemistry takes over. ...
www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_993.shtml

***

When Sun’s Too Strong, Plankton Make Clouds
This relieves the stress put on plankton by the Sun’s harmful UV rays. ...
Also, the shallow upper layer exposes the plankton to more UV light. ...
www.innovations-report.de/html/ berichte/geowissenschaften/bericht-31166.html

***
Where are plankton most affected at this time?


Effects of the ozone hole in Antarctica have already been seen in some of the organisms. Most of the Antarctic organisms have a low tolerance for UV radiation since for most of the year, hardly any direct sunlight reaches the continent. With the reduced ozone in springtime, UV-B radiation has been able to penetrate the atmosphere with a higher intensity. Already, on the base of the Antarctica food chain, an impact has been felt. UV-B radiation has already reduced the plankton populations by between 6% and 12%. Consequently, species higher up have felt the impact.

http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/Resources/Fact_Sheets/Key_Stage_4/Ozone_Depletion/14.html

***

What kinds of effects does UV radiation have on nature?

The Finns weight in:

http://www.fmi.fi/research_atmosphere/atmosphere_2.html#8


The greatest risks connected with the depletion of ozone in the stratosphere are ecological. Exposure tests made in USA and Australia have showed that over one hundred species are sensitive to changes in UV radiation, most important of these being the soy bean and a particular pine (loblolly pine) growing in USA. The University of Oulu has investigated the impact of UV radiation on coniferous trees. It has been noted that differences between trees growing in different areas are extremely large. For example, a pine brought from the Kola Peninsula began to grow better than before after receiving boosted UV radiation, whereas the needles of a pine from Kittilä began to shrink under the same treatment. Old needles are able to protect themselves by strengthening the wax coating the outermost layer of their needles and by increasing the amount of protective pigment. In contrast to this, young growing needles suffer easily.

On a global scale, half of the carbon annually bound up in biological assimilation is produced by plankton in oceanic ecosystems. In this way, plankton maintains the basic production of the oceanic food chain. The tolerance of plankton to UV radiation has been found to be very variable, depending on species, which may lead to a disturbance of the balance between separate species. At present, research concerning the impact of UV radiation on oceanic ecosystems is still in its infancy.

International research has revealed that some species of rice suffer from even minor increases in UV radiation, while other species capable of tolerating even intense radiation have also been found. With the help of research, as well as the efficient breeding and cultivation of strong species it will be possible to be prepared for years with a considerably decreased prevailing level of ozone level.

***

Fascinating defense mechanisms to UV Rays in Plankton! MAA's !

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:1To59yt0hYcJ:www.imarest.org/scientist/article2.pdf+plankton+UV+&hl=en

***

Regarding Ocean Acidity: Also supports my claim that acidity affects biological systems as well as UV, especially regarding the shell creating creatures and certain species of phytoplankton:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=169#more-169

http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/


The Royal Society has just issued a summary report on the effects of CO2 on the pH chemistry of seawater and aquatic organisms and ecosystems. In addition to its pivotal role in the atmosphere in the regulation of global climate, CO2 and its sister chemical species, HCO3- and CO32- comprise the carbonate buffer system which regulates the pH of seawater. The new report can be found here. Acidifying the ocean is particularly detrimental to organisms that secrete shell material made of CaCO3, such as coral reefs and a type of phytoplankton called coccolithophorids [Kleypas et al., 1999]. The ocean pH change will persist for thousands of years. Because the fossil fuel CO2 rise is faster than natural CO2 increases in the past, the ocean will be acidified to a much greater extent than has occurred naturally in at least the past 800,000 years [Caldeira and Wicket, 2003].

read more at realclimate



Comment on same page:


Why should we be concerned? Another way to put it: as reported by the New York Times British Scientists Say Carbon Dioxide Is Turning the Oceans Acidic,

Dr. Patrick J. Michaels ... pointed out that carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere had been higher for 90 million of the last 100 million years.

But Dr. Ken Caldeira, a research scientist at the Carnegie Institution's Department of Global Ecology in Stanford, Calif., and a member of the Royal Society panel, said the difference was that the current carbon dioxide release was occurring quickly, over just two centuries. In the past, water from the deeper ocean would have had time to mix, diluting the effect of the carbon dioxide. "If we put it out over a few hundred thousand years, we'd have nothing to worry about," he said.

So, there it is.

CO2 seems to be affecting the ecosystems. Plankton tends to respond to UV rays by producing clouds, so the delicate balance of nature has certainly tipped.

[Boomer Chick]

Better link for ocean acidity studies:

http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/document.asp?id=3249

BTW, read the commentary below the acidic ocean article on Real Climate. Quite interesting!

BC ;)

[Boomer Chick]

Hey let me throw in Straw bale construction in the mix - just for fun :D

Yeah, let's make a straw bale yurt for a guest/storage house! :D

[foot_soldier]

The replacement of cold-water plankton by more tropical species has been observed for quite some time now in the North Sea and in the Pacific off the northwest US coast. Sea-surface temperatures are documented to be increasing in these regions. The traditional food chains in these regions are being disrupted; species (fish, birds, etc.) which depend on the displaced species of plankton are directly observed to be dying of starvation. The reports are out there.

Sea-surface warming favors release of carbon dioxide back into the atmosphere rather than uptake of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

I think any reasonable person who is taking the time to educate themselves regarding what is being directly observed by the research community would have to conclude that we had better start taking the increasingly documented incidence of regional marine ecosystem collapse seriously.

Anyone who thinks events of this nature will have no effect on them is sadly mistaken. Sooner or later we will all be affected if we continue to insist on the "right" to generate more waste than our marine and atmospheric systems can process. Regional marine ecosystem deterioration is already disrupting the lives of thousands of people who depend on the health of these systems for their survival.

[foot_soldier]

The process can be a little time-consuming to say the least but it really pays to capture and save certain documentation as it appears. A little history on direct observation of plankton depletion and its impact on marine ecosystems:

August 26, 2002
Plunging plankton levels may be disastrous
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=946502002

GLOBAL warming is being accelerated by a massive drop in the tiny organisms that absorb CO2 in the North Atlantic, NASA satellites have revealed.

The latest results are highly significant and could help explain some of the decline in fish stocks and weather changes.

They are based on a 20-year snapshot of the ocean which has seen phytoplankton levels drop by 14 per cent in the North Atlantic and 30 per cent in the North Pacific.

Phytoplankton serve as food to other species so any reduction in their level ultimately affects the numbers of fish in the sea. Phytoplankton also currently account for half the transfer of CO2 from the atmosphere back into the biosphere by photosynthesis - a process in which plants absorb CO2 from the air for growth. Since CO2 acts as a heat-trapping gas in the atmosphere, phytoplanton helps reduce the rate it accumulates and may mitigate global warming.

Scientists from NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) say warmer ocean temperatures and low winds may be depriving the tiny ocean plants of nutrients.

Images from NASA’s Nimbus 7 satellite taken between 1979 and 1986 were compared to those taken by the OrbView 2 satellite from 1997 to 2000. The images were also supplemented with information from ocean buoys and research vessels.

The results showed that phytoplankton levels have declined substantially since the 1980s.

However, at the same time phytoplankton levels in open water areas near the equator have increased significantly - by more than 50 per cent - but since most phytoplankton is concentrated in the north there was an overall decrease globally.

The authors of the study, Watson Gregg of NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Centre and Margarita Conkright of NOAA’s National Oceanographic Data Centre, also discovered what appears to be an association between more recent regional climate changes - higher sea surface temperatures and reductions in surface winds - and areas where phytoplankton levels have dropped.

A warmer ocean surface layer reduces mixing with cooler, deeper nutrient-rich waters. A reduction in winds can also limit the availability of nutrients being stirred up to generate more phytoplankton. However, the scientists still do not know if the loss of phytoplankton, which thrive on sunlight and nutrients, is a long-term trend or a climate cycle.

Since the whole ocean food chain depends on phytoplankton, a significant change could indicate a shift in our climate.

One of the world’s leading marine scientists, Dr Martin Angel, said the findings were "very important".

Dr Angel, UK co-ordinator of the International Year of the Ocean, said he was now convinced global warming was happening and man was a major cause.

Dr Angel, who believes deep sea fishing should be banned in at least a third of oceans, said the decline in phytoplankton had massive implications not just for the climate but also for the whole ecosystem, including fishing.

July 12, 2004
Climate warning from the deep
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3879841.stm

Strange things are happening in the North Sea. Cod stocks are slumping faster than over-fishing can account for, and Mediterranean species like red mullet are migrating north.

Several sea birds are also in trouble. Kittiwake numbers are falling fast and guillemots are struggling to breed.

And, earlier this summer, hundreds of fulmar (a relative of the albatross) corpses washed up on the Norfolk coast, having apparently starved to death.

Scientists suspect these events are linked and they are trying to work out how.

Nothing is certain yet, but some believe a dramatic change in North Sea plankton is responsible. And, what is more, they blame global warming.

Global changes

Plankton are microscopic free-floating marine organisms. Globally they are of vital importance.

Phyto-plankton (tiny plants) are behind 50% of the Earth's photosynthesis. And, along with zoo-plankton (tiny animals), they form the base of the whole ocean food web.

But, over the last 20 years, these little organisms have been undergoing a radical shake-up in the North Sea.

Broadly speaking, as global temperatures rise, cold water species are moving out and warm water species are moving in.

"The North Sea was a cold temperate ecosystem in the 1980s, but since the 1990s it has changed into a warm temperate ecosystem," explained Martin Edwards, of the Sir Alistair Hardy Foundation for Ocean Science (SAHFOS), Plymouth, UK.

"So all the cold water species of plankton have moved much further north, and they are being replaced by more sub-tropical species."..... (continued)

[Boomer Chick]

FS,

The minor thesis of plankton's lower populations in this article fails to mention UV rays. It states that ocean temperature and low winds have affected the plants' growth. That's a new and rather general theory. The major thesis states that the dimishing CO2 sink caused by declining plankton populations will cause more warming of the atmosphere. Does the warming of the atmosphere actually warm the seas? What caused the warming of the ocean waters if warming is the main factor along with low winds to the plankton's thriving?


Scientists from NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) say warmer ocean temperatures and low winds may be depriving the tiny ocean plants of nutrients.

Images from NASA’s Nimbus 7 satellite taken between 1979 and 1986 were compared to those taken by the OrbView 2 satellite from 1997 to 2000. The images were also supplemented with information from ocean buoys and research vessels.

This temperature notion contrasts with the following and also complements it in terms of UV's ability to heat water columns. UV has been constant given that the sun's rays have remained constant but the decrease in ozone hole protection has affected the population.


UV-B radiation has already reduced the plankton populations by between 6% and 12%.



I have found more detailed information about plankton from scientific sites, so I find this article from the Scotsman not up to par. It lacks scientific specificity and updated information.
Here's a comment given by a marine biologist by education and avocation. I find his quite inclusive read on the oceanic biologic systems far more inclusive and cognizant of all factors impinging on sea life adaptation to CO2, acidification, and UV as a related factor, as well as temperature.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=169#more-169


$47. My undergraduate degree was BS Marine Biology and I have been away from the field for several years, but I have kept up with the developments in marine biology.

The acidification of the oceans by anthropogenic CO2 does what any new discovery does in science, it brings up a series of new questions.

The direct chemical effect of CO2 on ecosystems is only one of several anthropogenic pressures on the ocean ecosystem. The anthropogenic effects include overfishing, pollution, habitat destruction and introduced species. Anthropogenic climate change will mean an increased average temperature for the oceans and possible changes in current systems that could locally amplify or reduce warming and can alter nutrient cycling resulting in changes in the amount of nutrients available for the growth of phytoplankton, the plant plankton that are the base of the food chain.

How all these effects will combine and impact the ocean ecosystem is an important but unresolved question. Will there be no combined effect (i.e. for the sake of argument lets say warming alone causes 10% mortality in a species population and acidification alone causes 10% mortality but combined warming and acidification still have just a 10% total mortality), a simple combined effect (10% warming + 10% acidification = 20%), or a multiplicative effect (10% warming alone and 10% acidification alone but when combined 50% mortality)?

Environmental changes like changes in ph in the oceans have occurred in the past and plants and animals have reacted to these changes. Adaptation to changed conditions does occur. This is basic evolutionary theory. When conditions change, some individuals within a population of a single species have genetic differences that give them the ability to survive the changes and they pass these characteristics to the next generation. However evolution theory also shows that many species are not able to adapt to environmental changes and become extinct.

A rapid rate of reproduction could mean a population can rapidly accumulate the genetic mutations that allow a species to adapt to a rapid environmental change. This would make it more likely for a species to survive a rapid change. However the fossil record still shows that even rapidly reproducing organisms have at times not been able to adapt and have gone extinct.

Many types of phytoplankton do increase their numbers rapidly but they propagate primarily by asexual reproduction, which makes it less likely for populations to accumulate the genetic mutations that could allow them to adapt. Complex marine organisms like fish usually have many offspring at each spawning event and because of this it is sometimes assumed that their rate of reproduction is rapid. This is not necessarily so. Most marine animals have large amounts of small and poorly developed offspring and do not exercise any parental care. Very few offspring survive but this is balanced out by having large numbers of offspring. The net result is under natural conditions these animals do not reproduce rapidly. Because they do not reproduce rapidly they are less likely to adapt to rapid environmental changes.

The effects on the ocean ecosystem cannot be determined only by examining individual species. This would assume that each type of organism is a completely separate entity, but in marine ecosystems there is a high degree of interdependence. If something happens to a population of one species other species and sometimes entire ecosystems can be effected. Acidification may negatively effect only a few species, but a reduced population of these species could have effects on other species that are otherwise uneffected by the increased acidity.

There are a lot of issues and the answers are unclear at the present time but are being examined. There were a handful of papers in Science and Nature in the past year or so that have examined the ecological effects of anthropogenic climate change on ocean ecosystems. There will be effects on the ocean ecosystem but it is unclear exactly what the effects and just how serious they will be.

Comment by Joseph O’Sullivan — 10 Jul 2005 @ 9:49 pm

To go return to my concern with ocean temperature rises and what the latest science has found at this time:

http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/PDF/PAPERS/grlheat05.pdf

I haven't read it all yet, but somehow my logic brings me to CO2 as the second determining factor of the rise in ocean temperature. The first may be geologic in nature. Now this is only a hunch on my part, but just thinking about water and air physics, the amount of time it takes for ocean temperature to rise in light of the gargantuan amounts of water and the various systems at work regarding winds, UV, air temp, clouds production, rain, snow, ice, salinity, etc. just leads me to suspect that other factors beneath the ocean might also and more directly contribute and not just the atmospheric and surface interactions. I could be wrong.

[foot_soldier]

.....The minor thesis of plankton's lower populations in this article fails to mention UV rays. It states that ocean temperature and low winds have affected the plants' growth. That's a new and rather general theory.....
Actually it isn't "new" at all. It's based on fundamental principles of marine chemistry and physics according to a close friend of mine with a Masters in Oceanography. I'm not trying to be difficult here.


.....I have found more detailed information about plankton from scientific sites, so I find this article from the Scotsman not up to par. It lacks scientific specificity and updated information....
The Scotsman article is one in a series of several over the last couple of years the point of which is to report to the lay public what is being directly observed in both the North Sea and in the Pacific off the northwest coast of the US. These articles are not intended to provide the kinds of detailed data that interested parties can fairly easily locate in the actual literature. In my view these articles serve the very important purpose of providing continuity of documentation in the Direct Observation department.


.....My undergraduate degree was BS Marine Biology and I have been away from the field for several years, but I have kept up with the developments in marine biology.

The acidification of the oceans by anthropogenic CO2 does what any new discovery does in science, it brings up a series of new questions.

The direct chemical effect of CO2 on ecosystems is only one of several anthropogenic pressures on the ocean ecosystem. The anthropogenic effects include overfishing, pollution, habitat destruction and introduced species. Anthropogenic climate change will mean an increased average temperature for the oceans and possible changes in current systems that could locally amplify or reduce warming and can alter nutrient cycling resulting in changes in the amount of nutrients available for the growth of phytoplankton, the plant plankton that are the base of the food chain...and so on.....
I've read a number of this guy's comments and find them very helpful. What he's doing at RealClimate is a little more comprehensive than what can be accomplished in a media venue intended for the lay public, however. O'Sullivan is certainly correct when he writes:


.....There are a lot of issues and the answers are unclear at the present time but are being examined. There were a handful of papers in Science and Nature in the past year or so that have examined the ecological effects of anthropogenic climate change on ocean ecosystems. There will be effects on the ocean ecosystem but it is unclear exactly what the effects and just how serious they will be.....
It is the scientific process that is going to continue to quantify and clarify the factors that are driving what is currently being directly observed in the above-referenced regions wherein marine ecology appears to be deteriorating. The keyword is process, which implies an active, continuous gathering of objective data and close collaboration with others who are similarly engaged.

That said, it doesn't seem at all unreasonable at this late date, given what is already known, to conclude that escalating atmospheric CO2, elevated UV-b over northern mid-latitudes and directly measurable regional sea-surface warming are all implicated where documentation of regional marine ecosystem deterioration is concerned. Coastal nutrient (pollutant) runoff and overfishing are also major drivers of declining marine health, no question about it.


.....I haven't read it all yet, but somehow my logic brings me to CO2 as the second determining factor of the rise in ocean temperature. The first may be geologic in nature.....
This is a .pdf file and it will take me a few days to get into it, print it out, etc. I will nonetheless do that. I'm assuming this material concerns undersea volcanic activity. There may well be something to that.


.....Now this is only a hunch on my part, but just thinking about water and air physics, the amount of time it takes for ocean temperature to rise in light of the gargantuan amounts of water and the various systems at work regarding winds, UV, air temp, clouds production, rain, snow, ice, salinity, etc. just leads me to suspect that other factors beneath the ocean might also and more directly contribute and not just the atmospheric and surface interactions. I could be wrong.....
I see your point. "It's a Big Ocean."

But it's important to remember that each layer of the ocean (along with each layer's own plant, animal and microbial ecology) has its own subtle set of physical and chemical attributes and its own particular function relative to The Whole. It is in the euphotic zone, the sensitive upper layer of the water column that the impact of atmospheric CO2 and incoming UV-b have the most direct and important ramifications vis a vis plankton. Also, the position and behavior of the organisms in the euphotic zone are directly influenced by the action of wind (primarily a surface phenomenon) and waves.

On another note, it's also easy to think "It's a Big Atmosphere" and that what's going on almost non-stop at commercial passenger airline cruise altitude in the northern hemisphere these days is of negligible consequence in the scheme of things. The truth is that the upper troposphere/lower stratosphere is also a very sensitive layer - and that what goes on there has a major, cumulative impact on the regions above and below it. The health of boundary layers (for example marine/atmosphere and upper troposphere/lower stratosphere) is very important relative to the health of The Whole.

[foot_soldier]

.....Does the warming of the atmosphere actually warm the seas?.....
August 3, 2005

Fossil Fuels May Decrease Earth's Natural Capacity to Store Carbon

Rising fossil fuel emissions may actually decrease the Earth's natural capacity to absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, according to a newly published study--which means that the warming of Earth's climate could accelerate even faster than scientists have anticipated.
http://i-newswire.com/pr39907.html

(I-Newswire) - The study, which was posted on-line this week by the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, is based on a new computer simulation of the global carbon cycle developed by Inez Fung of the University of California at Berkeley and her colleagues, with support from the National Science Foundation ( NSF )'s climate dynamics program.

Fung and her coworkers put particular emphasis on modeling how carbon dioxide emissions affect the strength and capacity of the environment's natural carbon repositories, including plants, soil, rain, clouds, bacteria, phytoplankton and oceans. The researchers also used observations from the past two centuries to project the coming century.

Their major finding was an inverse relationship between the rate at which carbon dioxide is emitted from the burning of fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas, and the capacity of land and ocean to absorb that carbon dioxide: the faster the emissions, the less effective were the carbon sinks.

There are a number of reasons for this, Fung explains. In the ocean, for example, carbon dioxide from the atmosphere mixes fairly rapidly into the upper layers, down to about 100 meters (this would be the euphotic zone where plankton live) or so. Then from there it slowly leaks into the deep ocean, where it will stay sequestered for centuries. But rising global temperatures warm the upper layers and make the ocean more stratified, so that the carbon dioxide has a tougher time mixing further downward.

On land, meanwhile, climate warming tends to dry out the tropics and reduce plant growth there, which in turn reduces the rate of photosynthesis and carbon uptake.

Taking all the effects together, says Fung, "our finding implies that carbon storage by the oceans and land will lag farther and farther behind as climate change accelerates with growing carbon dioxide emissions, creating an amplifying loop between the carbon and climate systems."

The team's model used the low range of temperature increases for the 21st century, predicting a rise of 1.4 degrees Centigrade for a "business-as-usual" fossil fuel emission scenario. Overall, said Fung, the model agrees with others predicting large ecosystem changes, especially in the tropics.

"Carbon exchange among Earth's atmosphere, oceans and land, and its relationship to climate, is one of the most challenging issues in environmental sciences today," said Jay Fein, director of NSF's climate dynamics program. "Fung's results have important implications for future potential climate changes: climate warming would increase the airborne part of carbon dioxide derived from human activities, and would in effect amplify climate change."

[DvdGStwrt]

There are a number of reasons for this, Fung explains. In the ocean, for example, carbon dioxide from the atmosphere mixes fairly rapidly into the upper layers, down to about 100 meters (this would be the euphotic zone where plankton live) or so. Then from there it slowly leaks into the deep ocean, where it will stay sequestered for centuries. But rising global temperatures warm the upper layers and make the ocean more stratified, so that the carbon dioxide has a tougher time mixing further downward.

That was a bit interesting.

I'll have to dig through my magazines, I think I have an old omni mag (yes that old) that said similar. It was just a theory back then 1980 something.

If I recall correctly it also applied to methane (deep pressurized methane deposits under strattified layers of the ocean).

[Insurrectionchemistry]

F_S = A+

[Boomer Chick]

Actually it isn't "new" at all. It's based on fundamental principles of marine chemistry and physics according to a close friend of mine with a Masters in Oceanography. I'm not trying to be difficult here.

OH! According to your friend, this is not new information for me? Isn't it rather general, however? Of course I understand the temperature factor, which holds true for many marine species, and again, I find both temperature and winds quite basic and relatively new in my own research on plankton. Perhaps I should have spoken more personally.

FS:
[quote] The Scotsman article is one in a series of several over the last couple of years the point of which is to report to the lay public what is being directly observed in both the North Sea and in the Pacific off the northwest coast of the US. These articles are not intended to provide the kinds of detailed data that interested parties can fairly easily locate in the actual literature. In my view these articles serve the very important purpose of providing continuity of documentation in the Direct Observation department.

Of course I realize what genre this kind of article presents and to what audience, but for our purposes here, we need to focus on more detailed research. Often these kinds of articles in their general statements fail to condition those statements with other research and other related factors. They leave out too much and lead the ignorant public into assumptions and even old research that might prove partly correct, but not solely correct in its attributions to plankton.For example there was no mention of particular affected plankton populations, UV, or the plankton's ability to adapt and create clouds, nor the larger variances in historic paleoclimatology references regarding past marine life fossils and their reflection of previous high CO2 and temperature rises in the past. The main thesis relates to CO2 absorptionand O2 production, but fails to explain the related conditioning factors. I stand my ground on its generalities and its lack of scientific specificity. Period.



I've read a number of this guy's comments and find them very helpful. What he's doing at RealClimate is a little more comprehensive than what can be accomplished in a media venue intended for the lay public, however. O'Sullivan is certainly correct when he writes:
[quote].....There are a lot of issues and the answers are unclear at the present time but are being examined. There were a handful of papers in Science and Nature in the past year or so that have examined the ecological effects of anthropogenic climate change on ocean ecosystems. There will be effects on the ocean ecosystem but it is unclear exactly what the effects and just how serious they will be..... [/COLOR]

And yes, I totally agree with him that many factors interrelate concerning marine life and the various factors affecting them.


It is the scientific process that is going to continue to quantify and clarify the factors that are driving what is currently being directly observed in the above-referenced regions wherein marine ecology appears to be deteriorating. The keyword is process, which implies an active, continuous gathering of objective data and close collaboration with others who are similarly engaged.

Why of course. And that would include atmospheric/oceanic/pollutant factors as all relate and interchange in ways scientists just begin to understand.


That said, it doesn't seem at all unreasonable at this late date, given what is already known, to conclude that escalating atmospheric CO2, elevated UV-b over northern mid-latitudes and directly measurable regional sea-surface warming are all implicated where documentation of regional marine ecosystem deterioration is concerned. Coastal nutrient (pollutant) runoff and overfishing are also major drivers of declining marine health, no question about it.[/color]

Late date? Actually, the warming of the oceans and the information gathering at this time is in its infancy. Until a direct correlation between warming and CO2 is confirmed without a doubt, I would agree with your conclusion. CO2 itself does not directly affect the plankton or other sea creatures, rather its the theory that CO2 raises the water temp which in turn affects the marine life. UVb seems to have an affect as well, but as you failed to mention from the above studies and observations, the plankton actually create weather (probably not consciously but in regard to adaptation mechanisms) that protects them from the harshest UV exposure, which in itself is only seasonal. One of the articles mentioned the more direct UV ray and more intense rays at the equator and that the plankton in the equatorial region had adapted and was not at risk whatsoever even given the more direct and more intense rays due to adaptive mechanisms. As the marine biologist above reminded, the adaptation factor may in who-knows-what timeframe allow the plankton recoup its populations in the northern latitudes. And I would add that acidity, regarding my research article and the accompanying RealClimate article, also plays into marine life negative influences. I thought you would have read those acidity articles just to get a taste of the gist....Ph is very important, even within our own bodies. Sulfur cycles come into play in the acidity factor.



This is a .pdf file and it will take me a few days to get into it, print it out, etc. I will nonetheless do that. I'm assuming this material concerns undersea volcanic activity. There may well be something to that.

Actually it doesn't mention underwater volcanic activity, which I also supposed it would. Essentially its a composite of ocean temperature readings over time and with depth up to 3000 meters and the conclusions do not reveal anything beyond common sense at this point. It mentioned, however, that the Pacific ocean is actually cooling whereas in comparison the Atlantic is heating. Given that the Atlantic contains the geological fissure and tectonic plate creation-point, called the Mid-Atlantic ridge, which churns with volcanic activity, and given the ocean's circulatory patterns (the Gulf Stream), and the salinity factor regarding polar ice melt, I can see why that water body has heated, rather than cooled, overall, yet when one considers the cooling factor associated with the Gulf Stream slowing, one wonders if the slowing of the Gulf Stream is in fact a direct response and balancing system to the rising oceanic temperatures. That, of course, is my layman's supposition and not confirmed by any scientific paper at this time. If CO2 is responsible for ocean temperature rises, then how do the uneven temperature gradients between the Pacific and Atlantic account? Is the concentration of CO2 greater over the Atlantic than the Pacific? What accounts for the discrepency?

[Boomer Chick]

I see your point. "It's a Big Ocean."

But it's important to remember that each layer of the ocean (along with each layer's own plant, animal and microbial ecology) has its own subtle set of physical and chemical attributes and its own particular function relative to The Whole. It is in the euphotic zone, the sensitive upper layer of the water column that the impact of atmospheric CO2 and incoming UV-b have the most direct and important ramifications vis a vis plankton. Also, the position and behavior of the organisms in the euphotic zone are directly influenced by the action of wind (primarily a surface phenomenon) and waves.

Yes, I see that. But I was referring to the oceans volume and mixing ability as a factor in temperature, not a factor in the sea life. Of course the surface waters exposed to sunlight would contain the plant life and nutrients available for marine food chains.


On another note, it's also easy to think "It's a Big Atmosphere" and that what's going on almost non-stop at commercial passenger airline cruise altitude in the northern hemisphere these days is of negligible consequence in the scheme of things.

I never stated that the atmosphere was large, as large as I see the volume of water compared to the volume of land on the planet or the volume of water in comparison to the troposphere, which I'm sure the water basins wordwide per volume far exceed the volume of the troposphere. But that's only a suppostion and I don't know the facts. One could view the atmosphere as a piece of plastic wrap on a basketball. Since CO2, sulfur, and soot, NOx, and other byproducts of airline emissions are being measured and compared to other sources of greenhouse gasses, we do know at this time that the contribution of aviation emissions is far less than that of the land based coal burning and other related CO2 emitting industries, including land transportation. So far from IPCC and NOAA as well as the tropospheric projects, the aviation emissions are indeed part of the overall composition, but not a determining factor or primary factor at this point. Sorry, the research, graphs and charts do not bear witness to your concern over aviation emissions at this point, but nonetheless, they do contribute and they should be curtailed.


The truth is that the upper troposphere/lower stratosphere is also a very sensitive layer - and that what goes on there has a major, cumulative impact on the regions above and below it. The health of boundary layers (for example marine/atmosphere and upper troposphere/lower stratosphere) is very important relative to the health of The Whole.

Indeed.


from the pdf
for individual ocean basins and Figures A9–A12 shows the
percent variance accounted for by the linear trend for each
basin. The linear trend of the world ocean (Figure 2) is
positive at most latitudes with the largest increase in the
upper layer of the world ocean with one notable exception.
There is a large negative trend centered at about 150 m
depth in the equatorial region and southern hemispheric
tropics. Examination of Figures A6–A8 shows that much of
this cooling occurs in the Pacific Ocean. This may be
associated with the reversal of polarity of the Pacific
Decadal Oscillation [Stephens et al., 2001] during the
late-1970s. The Indian Ocean exhibits subsurface cooling
along 10
S. Two other regions of cooling include the North
Pacific around 40
N and the North Atlantic centered at
60
N. It is well known that the subarctic gyre of the North
Atlantic has been cooling during recent decades. Levitus et
Earth’s Heat Balance[quote]

[quote][9] To understand the variability of the Earth’s climate
system it is important to estimate the contributions of
different terms in Earth’s heat balance. In Figure 3 we update
earlier estimates [Levitus et al., 2001] of the different
components of Earth’s heat balance. In addition to our new
ocean heat content estimate, an additional term in the Earth’s
heat balance now available is the variability of the heat
content of Earth’s lithosphere. Beltrami et al. [2002] used
temperature profile data from boreholes to make this estimate.
They estimate that Earth’s continents warmed by 0.9
1022 J during the past 50 years. This value is of the same
order as the warming of the Earth’s atmosphere during this
period and the heat of fusion associated with possible melting
of the Antarctic continental glacier assuming an estimated
maximum melting rate [Houghton et al., 2001]. Inspection of
Figure 3 indicates that the world ocean is responsible for
approximately 84% of the estimated possible total increase of
heat content of the Earth system for 1955–1998.
estimate is plotted at the midpoint of the year; each pentadal
estimate is plotted at the midpoint of the 5-year period.

So the earth's continents warmed as well? What does he mean by "heat of fusion?" Is he referring to the earth's inner core? He mentions "melting" of glaciers but not the reason why!!! Then he makes a brash assumption that the ocean was responsible for 84% of the total increase of the heat content of theEarth system from 1955-1998. He fails to explain how that occured. Do you see any proof of that in his paper? His paper only charts the increase in ocean temperature as well as the decreases through a particular timeframe.
First he says the earth warmed equally to the atmosphere then threw in the ocean warming as the primary cause of the atmospheric and continental warming. According to greenhouse gas theory, the atmosphere heated the ocean FIRST,notsaying I agree with that totally, for I reserve the UV and sun factor in the temperature fluctuations especially at the poles, not to disregard the earth's rotational and angular movements relative to the sun. We must also consider paleoclimatology references regarding past timescale heatings and coolings of both the atmospheric and oceanic realms as well as rising CO2 in the past. I will throw in the possible theory that the inner core of the earth may go through increases in thermic activity related to the sun and cosmic forces.

[Boomer Chick]

A very interesting paleo study regarding tree rings. Again, haven't read it yet, but will give my opinion related to past heating and cooling trends. Actually this looks like a stalagmite study. Well let's see.

ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/speleothem/europe/austria/spannagel2005.txt


;)

[Boomer Chick]

Here's the abstract from the above link:


ABSTRACT:
The precisely dated isotopic composition of a stalagmite from Spannagel Cave
in the Central Alps is translated into a highly resolved record of temperature
at high elevation during the past 2000 yr. Temperature maxima during the
Medieval Warm Period between 800 and 1300 AD are in average about 1.7°C higher
than the minima in the Little Ice Age and similar to present-day values.
The high correlation of this record to d14C suggests that solar variability
was a major driver of climate in Central Europe during the past 2 millennia.

GEOGRAPHIC REGION: Austria, Central Europe
PERIOD OF RECORD: 90 BC to 1935 AD

[Boomer Chick]

Other comments regarding Levitus:

If you notice in part 5., the discussion, he quotes himself and his study as the proof of increase of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere as primary to the heating of the oceans. I didn't think scientists were allowed to use their own studies as evidence of a so-called fact. Wouldn't he be required to cite other sources as well?

He states "internal variability" on "decadal time systems" as enfluential regarding heat balance as well.

OK he answers my question [11] regarding the variations in oceanic heat (Pacific verses Atlantic and also variances regarding the North and South P and A regions as well as the Indian Ocean). His reasons:

1. natural and anthropogenic gasses are not well mixed

geographic variability of ozone, and other gases and soot (Houghton et al)

2. Changes in radiative balance affects the circulation systems both regional and globally

DUH!

[12] I was right, the volume of the ocean is greater than the atmosphere (ocean = 10 to the 21st power kilograms & atmosphere = 10 to the 18th power kilograms) . Of course it's conditional in the sense that the surface layers more directly interact than the lower levels. We can't forget the molten core, Mid-Atlantic ridge and other volcanic heating influences, though, even at deep levels. And of course mixing and currents come into play.


Regarding the comparative heat retention or heating exchange differential of the oceans vs the atmosphere:

Thus, a mean temperature change of 0.1
C of the
world ocean would correspond roughly to a mean
temperature change of 100
C of the global atmosphere if
all the heat associated with this ocean anomaly was
instantaneously transferred from the ocean to the atmosphere.
This of course will not happen but this computation
illustrates the enormous heat capacity of the ocean versus
the atmosphere.


Electronic versions of the yearly and pentadal heat
content fields used here and data distribution maps by
yearly and pentadal compositing periods are available at
http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/indprod.html


Just thinking outloud here, please add your own thoughts on Levitus.

[Boomer Chick]

Full text available with subcription to "Nature."

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v433/n7026/abs/nature03265_fs.html

Highly variable Northern Hemisphere temperatures reconstructed from low- and high-resolution proxy data

ANDERS MOBERG1, DMITRY M. SONECHKIN2, KARIN HOLMGREN3, NINA M. DATSENKO2 & WIBJÖRN KARLÉN3

1 Department of Meteorology, Stockholm University, SE-106 91 Stockholm, Sweden
2 Dynamical-Stochastical Laboratory, Hydrometeorological Research Centre of Russia, Bolshoy Predtechensky Lane 11/13, Moscow 123 242, Russia
3 Department of Physical Geography and Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, SE-106 91 Stockholm, Sweden


Correspondence and requests for materials should be addressed to A.M. (anders.moberg@misu.su.se).




A number of reconstructions of millennial-scale climate variability have been carried out in order to understand patterns of natural climate variability, on decade to century timescales, and the role of anthropogenic forcing. These reconstructions have mainly used tree-ring data and other data sets of annual to decadal resolution. Lake and ocean sediments have a lower time resolution, but provide climate information at multicentennial timescales that may not be captured by tree-ring data. Here we reconstruct Northern Hemisphere temperatures for the past 2,000 years by combining low-resolution proxies with tree-ring data, using a wavelet transform technique to achieve timescale-dependent processing of the data. Our reconstruction shows larger multicentennial variability than most previous multi-proxy reconstructions, but agrees well with temperatures reconstructed from borehole measurements and with temperatures obtained with a general circulation model. According to our reconstruction, high temperatures—similar to those observed in the twentieth century before 1990—occurred around AD 1000 to 1100, and minimum temperatures that are about 0.7 K below the average of 1961–90 occurred around AD 1600. This large natural variability in the past suggests an important role of natural multicentennial variability that is likely to continue.

[Boomer Chick]

Organic Farming Produces Same Corn and Soybean Yields as Conventional Farms,
but Consumes Less Energy and No Pesticides, Study Finds
By Susan S. Lang
Cornell University

Wednesday 13 July 2005

Ithaca, NY - Organic farming produces the same yields of corn and soybeans as does conventional farming, but uses 30 percent less energy, less water and no pesticides, a review of a 22-year farming trial study concludes.

David Pimentel, a Cornell University professor of ecology and agriculture, concludes, "Organic farming offers real advantages for such crops as corn and soybeans." Pimentel is the lead author of a study that is published in the July issue of Bioscience (Vol. 55:7) analyzing the environmental, energy and economic costs and benefits of growing soybeans and corn organically versus conventionally. The study is a review of the Rodale Institute Farming Systems Trial, the longest running comparison of organic vs. conventional farming in the United States.

"Organic farming approaches for these crops not only use an average of 30 percent less fossil energy but also conserve more water in the soil, induce less erosion, maintain soil quality and conserve more biological resources than conventional farming does," Pimentel added.

The study compared a conventional farm that used recommended fertilizer and pesticide applications with an organic animal-based farm (where manure was applied) and an organic legume-based farm (that used a three-year rotation of hairy vetch/corn and rye/soybeans and wheat). The two organic systems received no chemical fertilizers or pesticides.

Inter-institutional collaboration included Rodale Institute agronomists Paul Hepperly and Rita Seidel, U.S. Department of Agriculture's Agricultural Research Service research microbiologist David Douds Jr. and University of Maryland agricultural economist James Hanson. The research compared soil fungi activity, crop yields, energy efficiency, costs, organic matter changes over time, nitrogen accumulation and nitrate leaching across organic and conventional agricultural systems.

"First and foremost, we found that corn and soybean yields were the same across the three systems," said Pimentel, who noted that although organic corn yields were about one-third lower during the first four years of the study, over time the organic systems produced higher yields, especially under drought conditions. The reason was that wind and water erosion degraded the soil on the conventional farm while the soil on the organic farms steadily improved in organic matter, moisture, microbial activity and other soil quality indicators.

The fact that organic agriculture systems also absorb and retain significant amounts of carbon in the soil has implications for global warming, Pimentel said, pointing out that soil carbon in the organic systems increased by 15 to 28 percent, the equivalent of taking about 3,500 pounds of carbon dioxide per hectare out of the air.

Among the study's other findings:

In the drought years, 1988 to 1998, corn yields in the legume-based system were 22 percent higher than yields in the conventional system.

The soil nitrogen levels in the organic farming systems increased 8 to 15 percent. Nitrate leaching was about equivalent in the organic and conventional farming systems.

Organic farming reduced local and regional groundwater pollution by not applying agricultural chemicals.
Pimentel noted that although cash crops cannot be grown as frequently over time on organic farms because of the dependence on cultural practices to supply nutrients and control pests and because labor costs average about 15 percent higher in organic farming systems, the higher prices that organic foods command in the marketplace still make the net economic return per acre either equal to or higher than that of conventionally produced crops.

Organic farming can compete effectively in growing corn, soybeans, wheat, barley and other grains, Pimentel said, but it might not be as favorable for growing such crops as grapes, apples, cherries and potatoes, which have greater pest problems.

The study was funded by the Rodale Institute and included a review of current literature on organic and conventional agriculture comparisons. According to Pimentel, dozens of scientific papers reporting on research from the Rodale Institute Farming Systems Trial have been published in prestigious refereed journals over the past 20 years.

http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/071405EB.shtml

-------

[DvdGStwrt]

And what they fail to tell you is that the three main crops grown are Corn, Soybean and wheat - that means that out of the three 2 of worst polluting crops (due to chemicals) could be switched over to organic and remove a huge chunk of the farm related chemicals.

I wish they would have stressed that in that article – more awareness is needed to promote change.

[Boomer Chick]

And what they fail to tell you is that the three main crops grown are Corn, Soybean and wheat - that means that out of the three 2 of worst polluting crops (due to chemicals) could be switched over to organic and remove a huge chunk of the farm related chemicals.

I wish they would have stressed that in that article – more awareness is needed to promote change.

They gave the facts, Dave, and left it up to the reader. It was a study and the favorable outcomes were published........ more carbon sequestration, less pollution, and same yield with higher income potential and cheaper in terms of fertilizers and pesticides. Maybe this agricultural professor already knew what the big crops were.

"Organic farming offers real advantages for such crops as corn and soybeans."

Please don't nit-pick! I would have thought you would have appreciated the study! Besides, they mentioned all the grain crops as quite cost effective to switch to organic. It's up to the farmers to read the scientific/economic news and switch!

[jayreynolds]

They gave the facts, Dave, and left it up to the reader. It was a study and the favorable outcomes were published........ more carbon sequestration, less pollution, and same yield with higher income potential and cheaper in terms of fertilizers and pesticides. Maybe this agricultural professor already knew what the big crops were.

"Organic farming offers real advantages for such crops as corn and soybeans."

Please don't nit-pick! I would have thought you would have appreciated the study! Besides, they mentioned all the grain crops as quite cost effective to switch to organic. It's up to the farmers to read the scientific/economic news and switch!

Yesterday I drove for hours through the Misssisippi river Delta farmland. Tens of thousands of acres planted with rice/soybeans in rotation. practically none of it was "organic", most likely, yet already benefitted from the fertilization by the beans. The other side of the coin that Pimentel didn't speak about was that current US yields already depends heavily on the revolution brought on by introduction of soybean culture.

"Pimentel noted that although cash crops cannot be grown as frequently over time on organic farms because of the dependence on cultural practices to supply nutrients and control pests and because labor costs average about 15 percent higher in organic farming systems, the higher prices that organic foods command in the marketplace still make the net economic return per acre either equal to or higher than that of conventionally produced crops."

The bold part is under emphasized in the article. What they are saying is that such rotation takes the land out of production duirng years of no saleable crops while fertility is built up by the legume. How many of us could take a year off from work and survive?


It's only the prices which make organic competitive, for sure. If everyone grew organic, prices will fall, erasing the benefits.

Lastly, plenty of research shows phenomenal yields on small test plots run by expert scientists under best possible conditions using resources not available in the real world. Usually these results are quite different when implemented on a larger scale in real-world conditions.
Shit happens, crops fail, etc.
Been there, done that.
Still, interesting research.

[DvdGStwrt]

They gave the facts, Dave, and left it up to the reader. It was a study and the favorable outcomes were published........ more carbon sequestration, less pollution, and same yield with higher income potential and cheaper in terms of fertilizers and pesticides. Maybe this agricultural professor already knew what the big crops were.

"Organic farming offers real advantages for such crops as corn and soybeans."

Please don't nit-pick! I would have thought you would have appreciated the study! Besides, they mentioned all the grain crops as quite cost effective to switch to organic. It's up to the farmers to read the scientific/economic news and switch!

I'm not nitpicking. I'm just thinking that the report could have made a deeper impact if that minor fact was mentioned in the report. The majority do not know what the three main crops of agriculture are - having that information in the article would have made it a tad nbit more significant to the reader.

[Boomer Chick]

Chemist Tries to Solve World's Energy Woes
August 07, 2005 4:48 PM EDT

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - Daniel Nocera arrives at his office at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology by 7 a.m., goes home 13 hours later - where he often reads papers or e-mails students much of the night - and returns to his labs on weekends. Vacations? None, really, unless you count chemistry conferences.

After all, trying to save the world is hard work.

If you ever wonder about how the world will produce enough energy to supply 9 billion people by mid-century - and whether that can be done without pumping off-the-charts amounts of carbon dioxide into the air - meet one of the minds trying to produce an answer.

Nocera, 48, is trying to achieve an old, elusive dream: using the bountiful energy in sunlight to split water into its basic components, hydrogen and oxygen.

The elements could then be used to supply clean-running fuel cells or new kinds of machinery. Or the energy created from the reaction itself, as atomic bonds are severed and re-formed, might be harnessed and stored.

There is a beautiful model for this: photosynthesis. Sunlight kickstarts a reaction in which leaves break down water and carbon dioxide and turn them into oxygen and sugar, which plants use for fuel.

But plants developed this process over billions of years, and even so, it's technically not that efficient. Nocera and other scientists are trying to replicate that - and perhaps improve on it - in decades.

Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, but it's generally locked up in compounds with other elements. Currently, it is chiefly harvested from fossil fuels, whose use is the main cause of carbon dioxide emissions blamed for global warming.

And so while hydrogen fuel cells - in which hydrogen and oxygen combine to produce electricity and water - have a green reputation, their long-term promise could be limited unless the hydrogen they consume comes from clean sources.

That's where Nocera's method comes in. If it works, it would be free of carbon and the epitome of renewable, since it would be powered by the sun. Enough energy from sunlight hits the earth every hour to supply the world for months. The challenge is harnessing it and storing it efficiently, which existing solar technologies do not do.

"This is nirvana in energy. This will make the problem go away," Nocera says one morning in his MIT office, where the Grateful Dead devotee has a "Mean People Suck" sticker on his window. "If it doesn't, we will cease to exist as humanity."

Lots of people have explored this challenge, but Nocera had a big breakthrough when he used light to coax multiple hydrogen atoms out of liquid. The key was figuring out the right chemical catalyst.

Nocera's 2001 paper on the process in the journal Science, written with graduate student Alan Heyduk, turned heads. Venture capitalists rang his phone off the hook offering to fund him in an alternative-energy company.

The achievement, and its revolutionary prospects, won Nocera this year's Italgas Prize, a $100,000 award given annually by an Italian utility to a top energy researcher.

"Dan is even-money (odds) to solve this problem," says Harry Gray, a renowned California Institute of Technology chemist who was Nocera's graduate adviser.

But there's a catch. In fact, there's a few, and they illustrate how hard it can be to move alternative energy beyond the proof-of-concept phase.

Nocera has performed the reaction with acidic solutions, but not water yet.

The catalyst he used was a compound that included the expensive metal rhodium. To be a practical energy solution, it will have to be made from inexpensive elements like iron, nickel or cobalt.

Nocera's reaction got the photons in light to free up hydrogen atoms, but that's only half the equation. The harder part will be to also capture the oxygen that emerges when water molecules are split. That way, both elements can be fed into a fuel cell, making the process as efficient as possible.

Nocera and scientists not affiliated with his work say those steps are achievable. But first, major advances in basic chemistry will be necessary for the reactions to be well understood.

As a result, Nocera believes it might be 20 years before engineers might design systems based on his work. And he frets that too few scientists are exploring the problem, with many top minds instead focused on biomedical research.

"This is a massive construction project," he says. "You can go back to building New York City in the '20s and '30s. You can't do it with just a few construction workers. So I need more construction workers, more hard hats, with me as a hard hat."

There's another big hurdle. While Nocera plugs away at trying to save the world, some people don't believe it needs saving.

Most scientists concur that continuing to burn fossil fuels will send the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere - it's now 35 percent higher than in preindustrial times - to dangerous levels, causing global temperatures to rise with potentially devastating effects.

"We are literally poisoning ourselves," Nocera says. "People don't get it because they can't see it."

But this is a famously politicized topic in the United States, where some powerful political leaders question the science behind global warming. And that, many scientists say, diverts attention and funds from trying to solve the problem.

And even among people who believe global warming's risks are too great to ignore, there is no consensus on what kind of green energy should come to the rescue.

Nocera cites a calculation by Caltech chemist Nathan Lewis that power demands in 2050 will be so great that just to keep carbon dioxide emissions at twice preindustrial levels, a nuclear plant would have to be built every two days. There's not enough room on the planet's surface for other widely touted solutions such as wind and biomass to have much impact.

Only the sun is the answer, Lewis argues.

Critics of that vision say many energy technologies being explored - including improved ways of storing electricity and different kinds of fuel cells - will come online in the next few decades and throw off today's extrapolations about the future.

Arno Penzias, who won the Nobel Prize for confirming the Big Bang and now invests in alternative energy startups for New Enterprise Associates, contends there are dozens of ideas more promising than ones involving hydrogen.

When told about Nocera's project, Penzias gets heated, saying it is unlikely to be practical.

"It is so far from being revolutionary that it's not even worth mentioning," Penzias says. "It will be a big yawn."

Nocera seems to thrive on such opposition, because he expects to prove naysayers wrong.

It's part of his blunt enthusiasm, which manifests itself when he discusses the joys of teaching chemistry to freshmen ("They love me") or when he meets with his grad students to discuss the status of their research.

Those sessions often devolve into arguments over the meaning of some data or the direction that projects ought to take. Provoked by Nocera's intensity - he'll exclaim, "I'm dying here!" in a tone resembling neurotic comic Larry David - tempers often rise.

One student recently threw an eraser at Nocera, leaving a pink welt on his back that Nocera later showed off with a laugh.

"There were times I absolutely hated working for him, because he knew how to press all of my buttons and drive me absolutely insane," says Heyduk, now assistant professor of chemistry at the University of California, Irvine. "He knew I was the kind of person that needed to be challenged all the time."

Nocera believes this constant prodding at what's possible is the essence of science. As evidence, he reels off several ancillary developments from his research, including microscopic sensors that detect biological hazards, which attracted funding from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency.

Pointing to a whiteboard sketch of his vision for using sunlight to split water, Nocera acknowledges that it ultimately might not be an energy panacea.

"Is it right? Maybe not. But it will be something. And it might be something I can't see right now," he says. "That's OK. But you don't stop doing something because you can't see it. It's antiscientific. It's anti-intellectual."

http://start.earthlink.net/article/tec?guid=20050807/42f58740_3ca6_1552620050807-754752846

[Yaak]

Here is a link to website with intelligent articles, posts, news and comments:

http://www.realclimate.org/


RealClimate (http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=1) is a commentary site on climate science by working climate scientists for the interested public and journalists. We aim to provide a quick response to developing stories and provide the context sometimes missing in mainstream commentary. The discussion here is restricted to scientific topics and will not get involved in any political or economic implications of the science.

If I am repeating previously posted info, then as Emily Latilla would say, "Never mind!"

Don't expect to find Wayne Hall or Jim Phelps there. Only legitimate climate science is discussed.

[Et in Arcadia ego]

Don't expect to find Wayne Hall or Jim Phelps there. Only legitimate climate science is discussed.

You just HAD to go and say that, didn't you..Any minute now:

"Greetings Fellow Warmists,

It soon became clear to me that all these Oak Ridge types were aware that Moses knew the secret the Ark kept regarding how chemtrails were good for frying pans and animals..

peace-ping!"

:rolleyes:

:p

[Boomer Chick]

:) Thanks, Yakky! I've posted quite a bit from the Real Climate site, especially some recent discussions on acidity and the ocean's biosphere health.

:) Et, you're quite a kick and yes, calling a spade a spade has to be an honorable position.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0816-01.htm




Published on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 by the Associated Press (http://www.ap.org/)
Experimental Hybrid Cars Get Up to 250 Mpg
by Tim Molloy
Politicians and automakers say a car that can both reduce greenhouse gases and free America from its reliance on foreign oil is years or even decades away. Ron Gremban says such a car is parked in his garage.

It looks like a typical Toyota Prius hybrid, but in the trunk sits an 80-miles-per-gallon secret — a stack of 18 brick-sized batteries that boosts the car's high mileage with an extra electrical charge so it can burn even less fuel.

Gremban, an electrical engineer and committed environmentalist, spent several months and $3,000 tinkering with his car.

Like all hybrids, his Prius increases fuel efficiency by harnessing small amounts of electricity generated during braking and coasting. The extra batteries let him store extra power by plugging the car into a wall outlet at his home in this San Francisco suburb — all for about a quarter.

He's part of a small but growing movement. "Plug-in" hybrids aren't yet cost-efficient, but some of the dozen known experimental models have gotten up to 250 mpg.

They have support not only from environmentalists but also from conservative foreign policy hawks who insist Americans fuel terrorism through their gas guzzling.

And while the technology has existed for three decades, automakers are beginning to take notice, too.

So far, DaimlerChrysler AG is the only company that has committed to building its own plug-in hybrids, quietly pledging to make up to 40 vans for U.S. companies. But Toyota Motor Corp. officials who initially frowned on people altering their cars now say they may be able to learn from them.

"They're like the hot rodders of yesterday who did everything to soup up their cars. It was all about horsepower and bling-bling, lots of chrome and accessories," said Cindy Knight, a Toyota spokeswoman. "Maybe the hot rodders of tomorrow are the people who want to get in there and see what they can do about increasing fuel economy."

The extra batteries let Gremban drive for 20 miles with a 50-50 mix of gas and electricity. Even after the car runs out of power from the batteries and switches to the standard hybrid mode, it gets the typical Prius fuel efficiency of around 45 mpg. As long as Gremban doesn't drive too far in a day, he says, he gets 80 mpg.

"The value of plug-in hybrids is they can dramatically reduce gasoline usage for the first few miles every day," Gremban said. "The average for people's usage of a car is somewhere around 30 to 40 miles per day. During that kind of driving, the plug-in hybrid can make a dramatic difference."

Backers of plug-in hybrids acknowledge that the electricity to boost their cars generally comes from fossil fuels that create greenhouse gases, but they say that process still produces far less pollution than oil. They also note that electricity could be generated cleanly from solar power.

Gremban rigged his car to promote the nonprofit CalCars Initiative, a San Francisco Bay area-based volunteer effort that argues automakers could mass produce plug-in hybrids at a reasonable price.

But Toyota and other car companies say they are worried about the cost, convenience and safety of plug-in hybrids — and note that consumers haven't embraced all-electric cars because of the inconvenience of recharging them like giant cell phones.

Automakers have spent millions of dollars telling motorists that hybrids don't need to be plugged in, and don't want to confuse the message.

Nonetheless, plug-in hybrids are starting to get the backing of prominent hawks like former CIA director James Woolsey and Frank Gaffney, President Reagan's undersecretary of defense. They have joined Set America Free, a group that wants the government to spend $12 billion over four years on plug-in hybrids, alternative fuels and other measures to reduce foreign oil dependence.

Gaffney, who heads the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Security Policy, said Americans would embrace plug-ins if they understood arguments from him and others who say gasoline contributes to oil-rich Middle Eastern governments that support terrorism.



"The more we are consuming oil that either comes from places that are bent on our destruction or helping those who are ... the more we are enabling those who are trying to kill us," Gaffney said.

DaimlerChrysler spokesman Nick Cappa said plug-in hybrids are ideal for companies with fleets of vehicles that can be recharged at a central location at night. He declined to name the companies buying the vehicles and said he did not know the vehicles' mileage or cost, or when they would be available.

Others are modifying hybrids, too.

Monrovia-based Energy CS has converted two Priuses to get up to 230 mpg by using powerful lithium ion batteries. It is forming a new company, EDrive Systems, that will convert hybrids to plug-ins for about $12,000 starting next year, company vice president Greg Hanssen said.

University of California, Davis engineering professor Andy Frank built a plug-in hybrid from the ground up in 1972 and has since built seven others, one of which gets up to 250 mpg. They were converted from non-hybrids, including a Ford Taurus and Chevrolet Suburban.

Frank has spent $150,000 to $250,000 in research costs on each car, but believes automakers could mass-produce them by adding just $6,000 to each vehicle's price tag.

Instead, Frank said, automakers promise hydrogen-powered vehicles hailed by President Bush and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, even though hydrogen's backers acknowledge the cars won't be widely available for years and would require a vast infrastructure of new fueling stations.

"They'd rather work on something that won't be in their lifetime, and that's this hydrogen economy stuff," Frank said. "They pick this kind of target to get the public off their back, essentially."
© 2005 Associated Press

***

Keeping an eye on the sky and the sea. Keeping an eye on you and on me. Offering hope,
Offering time,
Offering knowledge,
precious truth;
To keep you all on top of trends, make your bed, and
Make amends.

;)

[Boomer Chick]

Scotland's plans for hydrogen and carbon sequestration:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/a67d43de-132f-11da-beee-00000e2511c8.html



Clinton, McCain face up to global warming Andrew Buncombe
August 21 2005 at 01:55PM Washington - Two of the leading contenders to contest the next United States presidential election have delivered an urgent wake-up call to the US about global warming.

They said the evidence of climate change had become too stark to ignore and that human activity was a major cause of the problem.

On a high-profile and bipartisan fact-finding tour in Alaska and Canada's Yukon territory, senators John McCain, a Republican, and Hillary Clinton, the Democratic senator for New York, were confronted by melting permafrost and shrinking glaciers. They heard first-hand from Inuit people how rising sea levels were irrevocably altering their lives.

"The question is how much damage will be done before we start taking concrete action," McCain said at a press conference in Anchorage. "Go up to places like we just came from. It's a little scary."

Clinton added: "I don't think there's any doubt left for anybody who actually looks at the science. There are still some hold-outs, but they're fighting a losing battle. The science is overwhelming."

The comments from the two senators directly challenge President George Bush's reluctance to legislate to reduce the level of America's carbon emissions. While both senators have previously talked of the need to tackle global warming, this week's clarion call was perhaps the clearest and most urgent to date.

It also raises the prospect that climate change and other environmental issues could be a factor in the presidential contest in 2008 if Clinton and McCain contest the race.

At the moment both are widely expected to do so. Clinton and McCain, who represents Arizona, are among the leading - and certainly the most popular - contenders.

That they chose Alaska as the stage from which to force global warming onto the American political agenda was not a matter of chance. In many ways this separated US state is a frontline in the global-warming debate.

Environmentalists say the signs of climate change are more obvious there than perhaps anywhere else in the US.

Dan Lashof, a scientist with the Natural Resources Defence Council, a respected Washington-based group, said: "People in Alaska are starting to freak out.

The retreat of the sea ice allows the oceans to pound the coast more and villages there are suffering from the effects of that erosion. There is permafrost melting, roads are buckling, and there are forests that have been infested with beetles because of a rise in temperatures.

"I think residents there feel it's visible more and more - more than any other place in the country."

Campaigners say the position adopted by McCain and Clinton stands in stark contrast to that adopted by Bush, whose administration has repeatedly questioned the evidence of global warming and the contribution of human activity to any shift.

In 2001 Bush refused to ratify the Kyoto treaty on global warming just weeks after he took office. He has repeatedly been accused of doing nothing to enforce tighter controls on emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases.

Meanwhile, the US National Academy of Sciences - along with the scientific academies of the other Group of Eight nations, as well as Brazil, China and India - issued a statement earlier this year saying there was strong evidence that significant global warming was under way and that "it is likely that most of the warming in recent decades can be attributed to human activities".

The statement called on world leaders to recognise "that delayed action will increase the risk of adverse environmental effects and will likely incur a greater cost".

Lashof added: "[The comments] are not new for McCain and Clinton, but for them to... go up there and see the implications first-hand is significant."

Clinton, who must first win her re-election bid for the US senate next year if she is to contest the 2008 White House race, said at Wednesday's press conference that she had spoken to a number of scientists as well as Alaskans during the trip.

She said that while flying over the Yukon she saw forests decimated by spruce bark beetles - believed to be increasing in number at an unprecedented rate because of warmer weather.

She was also struck by what she heard from a 93-year-old woman she had met at a fish camp at Whitehorse, Yukon. The woman told her she had been fishing there her whole life but that lately the fish had strange bumps on them.

"It's just heartbreaking to see the devastation," said Clinton.

Clinton and McCain, along with senators Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Susan Collins of Maine, also travelled to Barrow, the northernmost city in the US. There, they spoke to scientists and Inupiaq Eskimos who are troubled by rising sea levels. They also travelled to Seward to see shrinking glaciers in Kenai Fjords National Park.

McCain - along with Senator Joe Lieberman - is behind new proposed legislation that would require power-generating companies to reduce carbon emissions to their 2000 levels.

Graham, a Republican, said he was on the fence with regard to the new legislation but admitted that he had been moved by what he had seen on the fact-finding trip.

"Climate change is different when you come here, because you see the faces of people experiencing it in Alaska," he said.

"If you can go to the native people and listen to their stories and walk away with any doubt that something's going on, I just think you're not listening."

Collins, a Democrat, was even more convinced. She said the evidence in Alaska represented the "canary in the mineshaft of global warming crying out to us to pay attention to the impact".

Alaska's own congressional delegation of two senators and a representative did not take part in the tour and have opposed any mandatory limits on carbon emissions.



This article was originally published on page 6 of Sunday Independent (http://www.sundayindependent.co.za/) on August 21, 2005

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=14&click_id=143&art_id=vn20050821102937979C730933

[Boomer Chick]

Monday, August 29th, 2005
Is Global Warming Causing More Devastating Hurricanes Worldwide?


Read the interview:



http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/29/145206



Tropical storms may be growing in overall intensity due to human-induced global warming, according to a new study by leading hurricane researcher Kerry Emanuel. His report, which has generated controversy among climate specialists, was published earlier this month in the journal Nature. Emanuel looked comprehensively at storm data since the mid-1970s and concluded that the destructive power of hurricanes has nearly doubled over the past three decades at least partially because of human-induced global warming. Critics of the study say hurricanes are not intensifying and that the cause of the rising ocean temperature is natural, not human-made.


Kerry Emanuel, Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He authored the study in "Nature" on the link between human-induced global warming and increasing hurricane strength. His new book is called "Divine Wind: The History and Science of Hurricanes."

[Boomer Chick]

Google Alert for: global warming





Gore to visit portland, talk global warming (http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_090405_news_gore_visit_speech.28ef2252.html)
kgw.com (subscription) - Portland,OR,USA
Former Vice President Al Gore is coming to Portland to give a speech on global warming this week. Gore has been giving speeches ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_090405_news_gore_visit_speech.28ef2252.html)

Global Warming & Blackouts as Deadly as Terrorism (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0509/S00024.htm)
Scoop.co.nz (press release) - New Zealand
... Global Warming isn't some hair-brained scheme cooked up in a laboratory by mad scientists. It's an issue that is as real as terrorism. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0509/S00024.htm)

Mowing records reaval global warming (http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/viewarticle.aspx?id=279158)
News & Star - Carlisle,Cumbria,UK
... since 1984. Now the Royal Meteorological Society have included the 77-year-old's data in a paper on global warming. His records ...
Global warming is not to blame for hurricanes (http://www.theherald.co.uk/46332.shtml)
The Herald - Glasgow,Scotland,UK
... from media reports and letters in The Herald (September 2) that the New Orleans debacle and rises in US petrol prices are going to be blamed on global warming. ...

;)

[whitemajikman]

Yaak,Et,Boomer,Jay........

does HUMAN EXTINCTION mean anything to you.......?

While I admire all of your positive contributions ,the one thing that I think you are losing site of is the potential for Human Extinction due to global climate change.Our own respective governments are shitting their pants over the implications of what Global Climate Change means to the Human Race.

Let's Not Be Coy......

As fossil fuel which accounts for 80% of the products that we all use daily dwindles and as the effects of Global Climate Change starts to increase in ferocity there will be MORE WAR,DISEASE,AND PESTILENCE.........This Is A Certainty not A Prediction........

The Globalist's have known this since the early 1970's but what has changed since then has them also shitting there pants because they thought that they could survive through the coming decades of global unrest and even mitigate climate change ,what they have found is that they can no longer control the uncontrollable........we are on the cusp of global extinction and the really frightening part about that is that maybe 5% of the Global population actually knows the TRUTH and isn't sharing their information with the remaining 95%........

Now you all can call me crazy or a conspiracy theorist or even mentally unstable it does not effect me because you all need some HARSH REALITY........

As Oil Dwindles ,The Remaining reserves will be fought over ,legal contracts and global law will be broken and fractured leading to all out war and war will use up the remainder........

it is already happening globally.........with the U.S. , Russia and China leading the way........

I am short for time at the moment and I will Return to get deeper into this........

What I ask of you all is simple.......

to join in this discussion and prove me wrong if you can.........it will be both based on science and intellectual discourse .......

WMM

[Yaak]

What I ask of you all is simple.......

to join in this discussion and prove me wrong if you can.........WMM

They are your claims. The burden of proof is yours. Since we all know that you will provide no proof, this discussion is over already.

[Boomer Chick]

Hello, Yaak.


WMM, future speculations and crystal-balling go hand in hand. Logic and reality enter the mix as well. So what I find, WMM, in your future projection is just that....

a future projection based on speculation and crystal-balling.

In the realm of "speculation" we can and do use logic, but of a limited scope. Since your projection involves your brain and not a computer, I suggest that similar to a computer you input all of the variables and possibilities before you compute. You have posted many articles and projections of many futurists as they grapple with present realities. The only problem with the occupation or avocation of futurists is that they often miss the unexpected and innovative capabilities of man's ingenuity. Also, at this time in planetary development the added possibilities of interjected alien (and I'm talking real ETs) technology, change and modify the whole concept of transitioning technologies and casts a spiritual aspect on future realities as well.

Why spiritual? Through enlightened knowledge from those beings far superior to us, we may learn the secrets of vibrational and geometric energy itself as some black ops scientists have recently discovered only in part and with stunted offensive and controlling uses in mind. In relation to healing energies and the creative consciousness energies themselves, which we at this time call "LOVE," we have much to learn. In this learning and understanding of more inclusive universal physics laws, we will gain insight and ability to heal our own biological planetary systems. So under the two unexpected and positive influences of man's ingenuity and the interjection of more superior spiritual and scientific nexus realizations of consciousness and energy (in the physics realm )..... we may rise above the more negative fear-based scenarios projected by many.

To ignore the concomitant rise in spiritual awareness while at the same time realizing a dwindling resource which sustained whole civilizations, leaves one bereft of hope and creativity in the solutions to planetary challenges. It is in our collective power as a species to solve the physical problems through solutions that require cooperation, innovation, and creativity as well as an openess to help and assistence from our galactic brothers and sisters. This need, this sustaining and humane force, will overpower the darker, smaller forces intent on controlling our human destiny for the survival of a very few.

Crystal-balling is nothing but that unless you are an accredited psychic. Cystal-balling is often referred to as a nuerotic tendency in those who feel powerless and feel the need to control situations due to a basic insecurity usually brought on by earlier trauma. In my own positive projections, I include and admit to a small amount of crystal-balling, but I base my projections on the following trends: alternative energy development globally: spiritual awareness as noted through anti-war sentiments globally; deeds of compassion from the tsumani to the recent Katrina event; changing legislation proposed here and abroad to deal with emergencies and disasters as well as environmental challenges; outrage and awareness of the causes of globalized unhappiness due to the information age of the internet; the changing of military mindsets in the occupation of resource wars reflected in AWOLs, whistleblowing, suicides, humane realizations, anti-resource war and anti-war sentiments; outrage at tax cuts and handouts for the wealthy and corporations here; and outrage at dwindling human freedoms and privacy here; and outrage at leadership failing all people through lies and fear mongering. Many in the world and here realize the global game of intrigue and control of monetary systems and peoples and will not allow the hegemonious dreams of the few to overpower the humane and peaceful dreams of the many. All of this paints a picture of darker stimulants prompting greater spiritual awareness and awakening. And the truth ever rises to the surface.

Call me nutty and "out there," but never call me a pessimist. I see the possibilities of the darker world powers to secret and grab all the resources attempting to control and subjugate the populations at large, even through technology. But I also see this failing as those mired in the riches of oil dwindle in their power-quest for domination as the newer technologies take the place economically and spiritually in the hearts and minds of intelligent men and women across the globe. I see the physical globe as Mother Earth cleansing herself and rising her vibrations in concert and parallel to our humanity rising its collective consciousness and vibrations as well. I see disaster not as a dividing process, but as a uniting and changing influence on all of humanity which opposes any and all darker intentions. In the investigation and realizations of failures and attempted operations, we come together to shine the light on capitalistic and monopolistic attempts to overcontrol and manipulate populations and we change and transform what is to what could be. It is a revolution.

I see the dark succumbing to the light and all working together for the good of our collective and evolutionary future. Yes, it takes energy and struggle to awaken and change the trends allowed to progress while we were all caught up in everyday living. It's an amazing time to be alive, to feel the human compassion overwhelming in its desire to realize our Oneness, our humanity and our family relatedness as human beings deserving dignity and expressing love and caring. Chaos, as a purposeful weapon of the darker forces to attempt to bring all to their knees and beg for military oversight and control....

WILL NEVER WORK !!! Instead, the human spirit rises above the darker plans, thwarts the initial probabilities, and lifts humanity up in the light of creativity, love, innovation, cooperation, and hope! A revolution is at hand.

As above so below.

BC

[halva]

I hope you feel this has been helpful WMM.

[Boomer Chick]

I hope you feel this has been helpful WMM.

Get off my cloud, Halva! Mick Jagger used to sing this lyric and it applies quite aptly here.

I just spent a lot of time writing and all you have to say is this?

Get off my cloud, buddy, and stay off !

Don't you have any thoughts of your own?

[halva]

I wasn't talking to you. Neither was WMM.

He's trying to win over people who are on the other side to you and me and him.

[Boomer Chick]

Yaak,Et,Boomer,Jay........

does HUMAN EXTINCTION mean anything to you.......?

While I admire all of your positive contributions ,the one thing that I think you are losing site of is the potential for Human Extinction due to global climate change.Our own respective governments are shitting their pants over the implications of what Global Climate Change means to the Human Race.

Let's Not Be Coy......

Are you drunk again?

Get with it, Halva, or stay off this thread!

Google Alert for: global warming




Telecom Global Warming (http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=80039&WT.svl=tease1_2)
Light Reading - USA
... experts have to offer. Telecom global warming: It's happening, so be careful. That telecom glacier may be melting below your feet.


Global Warming Hits New Orleans: The Controversy After the Storm ... (http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200509/200509060008.html)
Chosun Ilbo - Seoul,South Korea
... Washington is holding its breath, less the dirty little secret gets out: that Katrina is the entropy bill for increasing CO2 emissions and global warming. ...


Compassionate Liberalism Part I: Falsely Blaming Bush and Global ... (http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/t/tremoglie/2005/tremoglie090605.htm)
Men's News Daily - Guerneville,CA,USA
... One claim was that global warming was responsible for Hurricane and therefore so was President Bush since he opposed the Kyoto Treaty (incidentally, this was ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/t/tremoglie/2005/tremoglie090605.htm)

Saturn Ring changes - Are they connected to Solar Global Warming? (http://www.profindsearch.com/news/2005/09/06/PFS1157.htm)
Profindsearch.com - Birmingham,UK
... Perhaps the answer to this might be the "Global Warming" that has become apparent in our Solar System in the last few years. A warming ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.profindsearch.com/news/2005/09/06/PFS1157.htm)

Global warming effects 'already seen' in far north Qld (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1453820.htm)
ABC Regional Online - Australia
A university academic says the effects of global warming on temperatures and native wildlife are already being seen in far north Queensland. ...


The Snowball Effect of Global Warming (http://www.livescience.com/environment/050906_arctic_shrubs.html)
LiveScience.com - New York,NY,USA
In a twist to the proverbial snowball effect, warmer Arctic temperatures are stimulating plant growth, which darkens the landscape and causes more sunlight to ...


GLOBAL warming is likely to cause a hunger crisis greater than ... (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15936041&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=hunger-crisis-to-worsen--name_page.html)
Mirror.co.uk - UK
... Professor Steve Long, from the University of Illinois, said: "Experiments suggest that current projections of global food production may now be very over ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid%3D15936041%26method%3Dfull%26siteid%3D 94762%26headline%3Dhunger-crisis-to-worsen--name_page.html) Erasing doubts on global warming (http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=91692&ran=227637)
Virginian Pilot - Norfolk,VA,USA
... Still, there are scientists who cling to the idea that global warming is neither a trend nor a phenomenon, and in any case certainly isn't caused by man's ...

[halva]

Are you drunk again?

Get with it, Halva, or stay off this thread!


Were you drunk when you assumed that you were more of an 'old-timer' than David Stewart?

But you are right. Unlike you I can't get away with making mistakes. I should pay attention, even when I am not interested.

[whitemajikman]

I hope you feel this has been helpful WMM.

Actually Wayne it is more saddening than helpful due To The Serious Nature Of The Issue That I Have Presented.........

Boomer While You Have HOPE ,I Fear HOPE is not enough........

Nature does not Recognize HOPE .........

OUR PLANET IS DYING .........To Deny This Would Be Ludicrous, over a million species will become extinct by 2010 ......those Species play a roll in our ecosystem ,without them we are screwed......for example krill and phytoplankton.

also I suggest you google how much of this new technology you hold hope out for which relies on fossil based components and composites ,what you will find is that almost all are reliant on some form of fossil-based product to achieve their goal ,so in view of that major reality what if anything is really changing.........?

Also I agree with your Spiritual Outlook .....The Problem Is That The People In Power and whom pulls the strings.........Do Not.......for that would loosen their grip of control and power.

And I do not see anything changing in the Near or Distant Future when it comes to the TEMPTATION of Power and Control.

Now Boomer you have basically stated that I Don't Know What I am Talking About and That I Suffer from Crystal-balling and Blind Speculation Which is not the case at all,any human being can take a look at world events ,the dwindling oil supply,Climate Change and the growing shift to sectarian politics and realize that the human race is in dire straights and walking on the cusp of extinction. I could sit here and paint a rosy picture for everyone but would that be realistic ???of course not.

WMM

[whitemajikman]

They are your claims. The burden of proof is yours. Since we all know that you will provide no proof, this discussion is over already.

They are Not My Claims ED they are Natures Reality.

And If You Need Proof Of This Maybe you Should Spend a little more time on this issue for this issue concerns you and every man ,woman and child on this planet.

oh but I forgot this issue is not important enough for you to take a look at...........

oh and ED HACKING IS A CRIME.......That MakesYou A Criminal.........And The Proof Has Already Been Forwarded To The Proper Authorities...........Try crossing the Canadian/U.S. Border and see where you will find yourself........also I am Forwarding all of the proof Mark Sky will Need to have you incarcerated at his leisure......if thats what he
so chooses........


And I don't care to hear your anticipated denial.......

WMM

[Boomer Chick]

Actually Wayne it is more saddening than helpful due To The Serious Nature Of The Issue That I Have Presented.........

Boomer While You Have HOPE ,I Fear HOPE is not enough........

Dear Shawn, I didn't go to all that effort to identify POSITIVE trends for nothing. It was not mere hope that I outlined. Go over the post again.


Nature does not Recognize HOPE .........

Nature may be going through changes that are both good and bad, and as far as species extinction..... we've been able to save and bring back many species.... and as far as phytoplankton.... we've read all about it here and the jury is still out, that phytoplankton itself is ON THE WAY OUT. Sorry, but that was one of our little debates here, too, and although UV rays do impact the plankton in Northern seas only for a season a year, stronger UV rays have forced mutations for equatorial plankton to flourish. Certain areas of the oceanic bio-sphere are impacted and other areas not ----at particular times of affectation as well, so the plankton die off is not assuredly, scientifically TOTAL in a global sense. To assume the earth HASN'T gone through previous cyclical climate changes is to ignore the core and tree ring evidence. I didn't do all that reading and posting for nothing.


OUR PLANET IS DYING .........To Deny This Would Be Ludicrous, over a million species will become extinct by 2010 ......those Species play a roll in our ecosystem ,without them we are screwed......for example krill and phytoplankton.

You are making sweeping generalizations and its doesn't mean part of what you say is untrue. Part of it IS true. You say our "PLANET IS DYING", well, dear, you have to support that, not with broad brush strokes, but specific and credible evidence. If you were to actually debate the issue, the examples on both sides: bio-adversity verses bio-diversity would be represented.


also I suggest you google how much of this new technology you hold hope out for which relies on fossil based components and composites ,what you will find is that almost all are reliant on some form of fossil-based product to achieve their goal ,so in view of that major reality what if anything is really changing.........? Yes, I understand what you're saying, but transitions, nonetheless, progress forward.


Also I agree with your Spiritual Outlook .....The Problem Is That The People In Power and whom pulls the strings.........Do Not.......for that would loosen their grip of control and power.

I understand, and I also see that their grip is loosening and will continue to loosen.


And I do not see anything changing in the Near or Distant Future when it comes to the TEMPTATION of Power and Control.

You're entitled to your view and I'm entitled to mine. I see too many positive changes occurring of which I did mention, of which are political in nature, which protect me from despair. I see, I think, I read, and I draw far different conclusions than you..... and that is OK.


Now Boomer you have basically stated that I Don't Know What I am Talking About and That I Suffer from Crystal-balling and Blind Speculation Which is not the case at all,

I didn't use the term "blind." I admitted I crystal-ball, too, but conditioned that with observed trends. You have only mentioned krill and phytoplankton as far as trends in your future projection. I have read many of your posts from other authors and I see what you see, but I see more activity progressing into transition, apparently, than you do. Of course, for a time, the means of achieving alternative energies will take some fossil fuels, but that is a reality we have to deal with, while realizing that eventually the fossil fuels will no longer exist and technology, new chemistry, and other molecular forms will be developed. Just because I disagree, does not mean I find you totally off in fantasyland or blindly grasping for straws. You asked for my opinion and I gave it with my supporting reasoning and examples.


any human being can take a look at world events ,the dwindling oil supply,Climate Change and the growing shift to sectarian politics and realize that the human race is in dire straights and walking on the cusp of extinction. I could sit here and paint a rosy picture for everyone but would that be realistic ???of course not.

WMM

No one denies here, especially me, that we're on the cusp of change and I've often posted that self annihilation is the larger threat compared to gradual planetary die-off. Do you remember? It is due to the spiritual shifting that I proclaim hope as well as other innovative and humane factors. Basically, our global desire to love one another will overcome those with technology aimed to kill, and because of that upstepped value and realization..... the full potential of mankind will be released. Why the hell did I even bother to write my thoughts if you fail to read them?

And Shawn, you didn't even respond to the ET possible intervention and sharing, did you?

I simply disagree with you that the whole planet is dying and man, too. If something cosmic happens regarding our planet, like an incoming energy surge or cosmic rays, or a comet..... hey? what can you do? Nothing. It might have occurred before and disrupted life for awhile, but obviously humans continued and so did the animal and plant kingdom, so really, other than those kinds of huge planetary threats, the threat of man.... is a challenge, but does show promise to me.... not just based on hope, but based on those aspects I defined.

Please read, Shawn. Your response was unfair to me and not complete.

[Boomer Chick]

SPECIAL REPORT: Thinking Beyond Oil
By LiveScience Staff and Wire Reports

</FONT>posted: 26 August 2005
10:18 am ET

"There is tremendous potential in the oceans to supply energy for the world."
Annette von Jouanne, an Oregon State electrical engineering professor

AS THE PRICE OF A BARREL OF OIL continues to surge (http://www.livescience.com/othernews/ap_050826_oil_prices.html) and oil traders eye possible disruptions in production from hurricane Katrina (http://www.livescience.com/forcesofnature/ap_050825_katrina.html), scientists are turning to the ocean as a possible source of alternative energy (http://www.livescience.com/environment/top10_power_21stcentury.html).

Many forms of renewable energy have been contemplated, and of course solar (http://www.livescience.com/technology/041115_solar_dish.html) and wind power (http://www.livescience.com/technology/050523_windpower.html) plants are already in use. But so far, only a small fraction of the world's energy production comes from renewable resources.

President George W. Bush has talked of a hydrogen (http://www.livescience.com/environment/hydrogen_nuclear_041130.html) economy, in which abundant energy would be extracted from water and the tailpipes of cars would be clean. But extracting hydrogen from water requires energy -- fossil fuels or nuclear power, for example. Many scientists say technology will never allow (http://www.livescience.com/environment/end_oil_041214.html) the extraction of a enough hydrogen to make up for the energy needed to do the extracting.


Learn More
[/url]
[url="http://www.livescience.com/environment/top10_power_21stcentury.html"]Power of the Future: 10 Ways to Run the 21st Century (http://www.livescience.com/environment/top10_power_21stcentury.html)


Wave Energy:
How It's Extracted (http://www.livescience.com/imageoftheday/siod_050518.html)


Monster Waves (javascript:PopupDisplay('imagegallery','imgid=318&gid=23&index=0'))


Oil Prices Remain High as Traders Eye Katrina (http://www.livescience.com/othernews/ap_050826_oil_prices.html)

End of Oil Could Fuel 'End of Civilization as We Know It (http://www.livescience.com/environment/end_oil_041214.html)

Windmills to Change Local and Global Climates (http://www.livescience.com/environment/041109_wind_mills.html)

Hurricane Katrina Update (http://www.livescience.com/forcesofnature/ap_050825_katrina.html)

Scientists have even proposed giant space projects (http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/technology/space_power_021031.html) to capture solar energy above the clouds and beam it back to Earth. Those proposals have not come close to getting off the ground, however.

High stakes

Meanwhile, scientists agree that the world will eventually have to rely on something besides oil. Just when the crude will stop bubbling is a matter of huge debate (http://www.livescience.com/environment/end_oil_041214.html). One scientists says the slow decline will begin later this year. If the wells go truly dry later in this century, as some experts figure, the major nations of an unprepared world might be drawn into all-out war.

"The oil will run out," says Caltech physicist David Goodstein. "The only question is when."

The strain is already building. The United States now imports nearly 60 percent of the oil it uses. China's oil consumption is expected to grow 7.5 percent per year, and India’s by 5.5 percent, according to the Institute for the Analysis of Global Security.

But so far, no renewable resource has been developed to the point that it could replace oil.

The new wave

The potential for harnessing the power of waves (http://www.livescience.com/imageoftheday/siod_050518.html) has drawn serious study by Oregon State University, federal and state agencies, and communities along the Oregon Coast.

"There's a real good chance that Oregon could turn into kind of the focal point in the United States for wave energy development and I think that would be a boon to the economy,'' said Gary Cockrum, spokesman for the Central Lincoln People's Utility District.

Groups hoping to begin work on experimental technology are considering the International Paper mill site in Gardiner.

"We have a lot of momentum going for it, I think, but we still have to work out lot of details,'' said Alan Wallace, Oregon State University professor of electrical engineering.

The plan is to take over the site to make it a showcase for a "renewable ocean extraction system,'' he said.

Tremendous potential

Last Friday at the Port of Umpqua office in Reedsport, officials from Oregon Department of Energy, Oregon State University, Electrical Power Research Institute and other federal and state officials gathered to explain the fledgling project to more than 100 southern Oregon Coast residents.

"There is tremendous potential in the oceans to supply energy for the world,'' Annette von Jouanne, an Oregon State electrical engineering professor told the crowd. "A 10-square-mile wave power plant could supply the entire state of Oregon.''

The electric institute and the Bonneville Power Administration identified the Gardiner site as the ideal place for the project in their feasibility study.

The former mill has an outflow pipe already in place -- a structure that could reduce the cost of building a power plant. Electricity from the Gardiner site could be transmitted to other stations up and down the coast.

The biggest obstacle

Money is the biggest obstacle. It will take about $5 million to complete the project's initial phases. But the recently passed federal energy bill could reduce much of that burden.

U.S. Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., who is visiting the southern Coast this week, called the project "intriguing.'' He added: "I would definitely be supportive.''

At first, he was skeptical that a system could function along the Pacific Northwest Coast, famous for its rough seas. But he said he's seen a similar system operate successfully off the coast of Scotland.

How much energy could be generated from the water is still unclear, but those involved with the project say the possibilities could be limitless.

"I read something involved with this that said if 0.2 percent of the ocean's energy were harnessed, it could produce enough energy to power the entire world,'' added Cockrum, the utility district spokesman.

On Friday, oil prices (http://www.livescience.com/othernews/ap_050826_oil_prices.html) held above $67 a barrel as forecasters said hurricane Katrina (http://www.livescience.com/forcesofnature/ap_050825_katrina.html) would move out into the Gulf, where oil platforms have already experienced disruptions from other storms this year.


2005 Hurricane Guide (http://www.livescience.com/forcesofnature/hurricane_guide.html)
Power of the Future: 10 Ways to Run the 21st Century (http://www.livescience.com/environment/top10_power_21stcentury.html)
End of Oil Could Fuel 'End of Civilization as We Know It (http://www.livescience.com/environment/end_oil_041214.html)

[halva]

Yes, I understand what you're saying, but transitions, nonetheless, progress forward.


:
Also I agree with your Spiritual Outlook .....The Problem Is That The People In Power and whom pulls the strings.........Do Not.......for that would loosen their grip of control and power.




I understand, and I also see that their grip is loosening and will continue to loosen.


But it’s not, BC, because YOU ARE GOING TO SAVE THEM!!!!

It would be unfair to you for me to fail to point this out!

[halva]

Nevertheless, thank you for all these signposted links.

[Yaak]

oh and ED HACKING IS A CRIME.......That MakesYou A Criminal.........And The Proof Has Already Been Forwarded To The Proper Authorities...........Try crossing the Canadian/U.S. Border and see where you will find yourself........also I am Forwarding all of the proof Mark Sky will Need to have you incarcerated at his leisure......if thats what he
so chooses........


And I don't care to hear your anticipated denial.......

WMMMore baseless claims and threats from nutjob the Whiny Maligning Maniac.

[whitemajikman]

More baseless claims and threats from nutjob the Whiny Maligning Maniac.

Who Do You Think Your Kidding ......YAAK............

Your M.O. and history online Speaks Volumes.................

WMM

[Boomer Chick]

But it’s not, BC, because YOU ARE GOING TO SAVE THEM!!!!

It would be unfair to you for me to fail to point this out!

Oh please, spare me your belittling and condescending tripe! Did anyone say I was involved in saving the planet?

Here's a man I highly respect and just discovered today. He's written quite a lot of scientific publications, taught at the college level, and keeps up with energy news with a positive outlook toward the future and some economic savvy as well.

http://alteng.blogspot.com/

From Marshall Brain (now whether "Brain" is his real name or not, I would have to write him and ask) :
Why Not Switch to Electric Cars?




Why Not Switch to Electric Cars? (http://baltimorechronicle.com/2005/083005Korthof.shtml)

The article's point is this: "There is more than enough off-peak electricity available to easily allow the transfer of all of our driving miles from gasoline- to electric-powered vehicles."

The author calculates the amount of electricity that would be required for California to completely convert to all-electric cars. He uses California because it is a state for which the data is easily available. California uses 12% of the gasoline in the U.S.:

California burns 280 million gallons of gasoline per week.
Assume 20 miles per gallon ('mpg') average for all cars in California
So 800 million miles driven per day in California.
The RAV4-EV is an electric car currently for sale in the U.S. It is not the highest-efficiency electric car in existence, but let's use it as an example. It gets four miles for each kilowatt-hour of electricity.
That means we need 200 million kilowatt-hours of electricity per day to run all the cars in California if everyone is driving a RAV4-EV.
There is about 540 million kilowatt-hours of off-peak, unused generating capacity in California per day. It is all sitting idle most of the time because the entire grid has to be sized for the peak load.
What this shows is that, if we recharged our electric cars at night (off-peak), we do not need to build any new power plants to power electric cars. The capacity to recharge the cars is sitting around "for free" right now doing nothing.

Note that it takes 5 kilowatt-hours for the RAV4-EV to go 20 miles, and that might cost 50 cents at 10 cents per kilowatt-hour. Compare that to a typical gasoline-powered car that gets 20 MPG at $3.00 per gallon.

If we converted even 25% of the cars in America to use this idle generating capacity (whether in the form of electric cars or plug-in hybrids), it would drastically reduce the amount of oil that we need to import.

See also California Cars Initiative for Plug-In Hybrid Vehicles (http://alteng.blogspot.com/2005/07/california-cars-initiative-for-plug-in.html).

[whitemajikman]

Dear Shawn, I didn't go to all that effort to identify POSITIVE trends for nothing. It was not mere hope that I outlined. Go over the post again.

It is mere Hope Boomer because you are trying to deal with Chaos Logically.........When Chaos does not recognize logic......

Nature may be going through changes that are both good and bad, and as far as species extinction..... we've been able to save and bring back many species.... and as far as phytoplankton.... we've read all about it here and the jury is still out, that phytoplankton itself is ON THE WAY OUT. Sorry, but that was one of our little debates here, too, and although UV rays do impact the plankton in Northern seas only for a season a year, stronger UV rays have forced mutations for equatorial plankton to flourish. Certain areas of the oceanic bio-sphere are impacted and other areas not ----at particular times of affectation as well, so the plankton die off is not assuredly, scientifically TOTAL in a global sense. To assume the earth HASN'T gone through previous cyclical climate changes is to ignore the core and tree ring evidence. I didn't do all that reading and posting for nothing.

The Earth indeed cleanses itself periodically.....and shifts.......But What You Do Not Want To accept is that Mankind is helpless to that effect and that our environment that sustains us is more fragile than first thought........and don't get angry Boomer I am just trying to balance out your positive outlook with reality......and the reality is our planet right now has become our biggest enemy to our continued survival as a species...........

You are making sweeping generalizations and its doesn't mean part of what you say is untrue. Part of it IS true. You say our "PLANET IS DYING", well, dear, you have to support that, not with broad brush strokes, but specific and credible evidence. If you were to actually debate the issue, the examples on both sides: bio-adversity verses bio-diversity would be represented.

then lets debate this issue because it needsto be debated.........

Yes, I understand what you're saying, but transitions, nonetheless, progress forward.

I agree.....but not this time ........because nature does not abide by human logic.........but by chaos........

I understand, and I also see that their grip is loosening and will continue to loosen.

they may loosen but they will never let go .....not without a fight.....a fight that would include the word "Revolution"........and lets be honest how many of you americans are willing to fight each other to the death to illicite that type of change......not very many.......

You're entitled to your view and I'm entitled to mine. I see too many positive changes occurring of which I did mention, of which are political in nature, which protect me from despair. I see, I think, I read, and I draw far different conclusions than you..... and that is OK.

of course it's ok thats what makes us individuals.........But I ask You Honestly.......Have You Entered The Variable Of Chaos Into Your Equation......Because until you do you are underestimating the inevitability of something going wrong which would make your "rosy picture" MOOT.


I didn't use the term "blind." I admitted I crystal-ball, too, but conditioned that with observed trends. You have only mentioned krill and phytoplankton as far as trends in your future projection. I have read many of your posts from other authors and I see what you see, but I see more activity progressing into transition, apparently, than you do. Of course, for a time, the means of achieving alternative energies will take some fossil fuels, but that is a reality we have to deal with, while realizing that eventually the fossil fuels will no longer exist and technology, new chemistry, and other molecular forms will be developed. Just because I disagree, does not mean I find you totally off in fantasyland or blindly grasping for straws. You asked for my opinion and I gave it with my supporting reasoning and examples.

Yes you did give me your honest opinion but you rejected mine .........and my opinion at this time is more in tune with the reality of what is transpiring globally.......and unabated........

No one denies here, especially me, that we're on the cusp of change and I've often posted that self annihilation is the larger threat compared to gradual planetary die-off. Do you remember? It is due to the spiritual shifting that I proclaim hope as well as other innovative and humane factors. Basically, our global desire to love one another will overcome those with technology aimed to kill, and because of that upstepped value and realization..... the full potential of mankind will be released. Why the hell did I even bother to write my thoughts if you fail to read them?

I read them Boomer and I agree.....but What I disagree with is the "gradual Planetary Die-off".....I think it will happen a lot sooner andwith more ferocity than anyone has realized up to this point .


I simply disagree with you that the whole planet is dying and man, too. If something cosmic happens regarding our planet, like an incoming energy surge or cosmic rays, or a comet..... hey? what can you do? Nothing. It might have occurred before and disrupted life for awhile, but obviously humans continued and so did the animal and plant kingdom, so really, other than those kinds of huge planetary threats, the threat of man.... is a challenge, but does show promise to me.... not just based on hope, but based on those aspects I defined.

Boomer our ecosystem is far more fragile than you have given it credit for and can turn deadly at a moments notice......

Please read, Shawn. Your response was unfair to me and not complete.

I have and I hope you want to debate what I have Said........that way we can both try and totally understand each others views.........

WMM

[Yaak]

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.



…………………………….

I think it's time to compile a list………………………………………⠀¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

of the many ridiculous claims……………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.…

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

made by Shawn "Chicken Little" Popowich,…………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..…….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

AKA Whitemajikboy and WMM,.............................................. .................................................

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

NOT ONE of which he has ever substantiated. …………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

NOT A SINGLE ONE!.......................................

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

This behavior closely parallels that of Jimbo Phelp's……………………………………⠀¦â€¦â€¦â€¦

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

who now has a list of wild claims……………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

that he has made………………………………………⠀¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

following him like stink……………………………………… ………………………………………….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

where ever he goes on the Internet…………………………………… …………………………….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

Jim Phelps Lite or WMM has definitely earned for himself……………………………………⠀¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

this same distinct honor. …………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.



Remember, Chicken Little,……………………………………⠀¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.



it is you that has hobbled yourself…………………………………… ………………………………….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

Your lies and lunacy……………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

are recorded and archived across the Internet…………………………………… …………………….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

for all to see………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

[whitemajikman]

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.



…………………………….

I think it's time to compile a list………………………………………⠀¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

of the many ridiculous claims……………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.…

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

made by Shawn "Chicken Little" Popowich,…………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..…….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

AKA Whitemajikboy and WMM,.............................................. .................................................

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

NOT ONE of which he has ever substantiated. …………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

NOT A SINGLE ONE!.......................................

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

This behavior closely parallels that of Jimbo Phelp's……………………………………⠀¦â€¦â€¦â€¦

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

who now has a list of wild claims……………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

that he has made………………………………………⠀¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

following him like stink……………………………………… ………………………………………….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

where ever he goes on the Internet…………………………………… …………………………….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

Jim Phelps Lite or WMM has definitely earned for himself……………………………………⠀¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

this same distinct honor. …………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.



Remember, Chicken Little,……………………………………⠀¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦..

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.



it is you that has hobbled yourself…………………………………… ………………………………….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

Your lies and lunacy……………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

are recorded and archived across the Internet…………………………………… …………………….

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

for all to see………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.

…………………………………………†¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â €¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦â€¦.








Yaak ............Thank-you.........

for Strengthening my position with the authorities.........Nobody Knew My Last Name Until I Was Hacked Last week......... BY YOU.........

I think you should really go get some mental help for your stalking tendencies before they become violent......

as for your claim that I don't provide proof.........it's all over the god damn forum if you really were interested in looking for it........

It's not my fault your intellectually unable........

also ED SNELL is not your real name........

Keep Pushing YAAK..........and I just Might Push Back...........

with the whole story.........you might think that you have left no trail..........but then again who said you were smart in the first place.........

THERE IS ALWAYS A TRAIL YAAK.........

WMM

[Yaak]

Keep Pushing YAAK..........and I just Might Push Back...........

WMM
Give it all you've got, push as hard as you can. I challenge you. I dare you, Chicken Little.:lol:




(Here's another spineless threat from the Weird Manic Measle that has all of the substance of a fart in stiff breeze)

[whitemajikman]

Give it all you've got, push as hard as you can. I challenge you. I dare you, Chicken Little.:lol:




(Here's another spineless threat from the Weird Manic Measle that has all of the substance of a fart in stiff breeze)

So Much For Your plea of innocence..........your not that bright YAAK.........your last post proves that........

:D

keep it coming.......and I will continue to cache.......

WMM

[jayreynolds]

.your not that bright keep it coming.......and I will continue to cache.......
WMM
Well, Whitey, considering some of your past lies, you aren't so bright yourself............


Ahhh.....
I have actually gotten to the Bottom of the Chemtrail Phenomena ........And Have gotten The Answers I sought after.

The public awaits proof of your claims, whitey.
Still waiting, five months now.............
"rhoades scholar" indeed!


Whitemajikman
Sheeple
Posts: 28
(10/25/03 1:14 pm)
Reply Re: chemtrails..........confirmed!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as soon as you post yours chickiedeb.........ill be happy to post my credentials........ill give you a little hint tho.....i am a rhoades scholar.........and have several degrees......from three of the top learning institutions in the world.....i am not afraid to put my name out on too a posting board.....so as soon as you post your degrees on this board mine will follow then you can begin investigating my long and varied career as i will yours.......but i fear as always.......you will not comply with reasoning.......you will either ban me.......or you will come up with some other excuse why you cant post your credentials.........so......it begs for questioning are you willing to take me up on this offer or not?.......it all comes down to responsibility.......are you responsible enough in your judgement to finally know the truth about me.......and of course there is the other question that remains unanswered to you have the intestinal fortitude to stand by your attacks............without showing any shred of proof that you are qualified in making all the assumptions.......you have previously made..............only time will tell.........sincerely the whitemajikman........


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whitemajikman
Sheeple
Posts: 30
(10/25/03 2:34 pm)
Reply Re: chemtrails..........confirmed!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
msc from m.i.t.......phd from oxford......and several other associate degrees.............all before i was 25........also....your belief that chemtrails do not exist goes against the findings of the world meteorological society......which has studied the phenomena........for the last 15 years...............what you must consider is this.....if we can seed clouds........how far of a leap is it to surmise that instead of iodine.......barium sulphate is being substituted .It would seem to me that it would be very simple to do ....even at high altitudes .......but i think what has been lost on all of the debate is the question of "why"...........that i can answer......haarp on their official website.......a government website...........states that barium sulphate is indeed being used to promote the effects of haarp's experimentation.......so i conclude that the chem trails everybody is trying to debunk here do in fact exist......and are a part of the experimentation that is needed for the haarp project to succeed.........end of conspiracy.........except for one huge fact.......barium sulphate is very toxic....and causes numerous health problems..........and it is being used daily.......at concentrations far exceeding the safe limit.......what you all should be asking yourselves is who gave the government permission to use such a device without public and enviromental controls in place..........that is where the real conspiracy........starts.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whitemajikman
Sheeple
Posts: 31
(10/26/03 2:23)
Reply THE ENDGAME.......my favorite........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a bit of wisdom for all you non-believers.........ive only been posting here for a little over 2 weeks...........but my esteemed colleagues.....have been posting here for months.....trying to let you in on the big secret behind chemtrails.............most of my colleagues work at haarp and designed the chemical composition that makes up chemtrails......but thats another story..........what im about to do goes against my better judgement............all of you chemtrail debunkers indirectly work for me and my esteemed colleagues and im sick and tired of all the bullshit and irrational thought that has come about regarding my research ....so in light of all you naysayers.........i propose this................all of you get together and come up with a concensus of what proof you would deem fit to finally lay to rest chemtrails forever.......once you have that concensus............i will provide all proof........including manifests,names of chemical companies which knowingly supply the chemicals,research data from haarp and its chemtrail experimentation,names of all politicians both canadian and american who know whats going on,high-resolution sattelite imagery of jets releasing their chemtrails with both canadian and american insignia,the true purpose of chemtrails,security camera footage of the inner workings of haarp.......and the most important piece of the puzzle...... some of the people among you who recieve large amounts of money to keep this forum up and running........now im talking there real names,birthdates,backgrounds,whom they really work for and what exactly there main directives are.........i told you all previously that i am well known in many circles......and by the way the only kooks there are on this forum are the debunkers that spend all their time living a lie............now is the time for reality at its finest.................will you take my challenge or will you all run and hide...........thats the big question..........oh and banning me from this sight will not work........either im a free man......always have been..........there is not a security protocol that i cant crack.............it was part of my extensive education............so..........do you all have the guts or will you run...............


Whitemajikman
Illumi~Naughty
Posts: 1647
(4/24/05 4:31 pm)
Reply CHEMTRAILS AND U.V. RADIATION..........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DURING MY WEEKEND JAUNT TO C.F.B. WAINWRIGHT......
HERE IN ALBERTA......
I BROUGHT UP A FEW QUESTIONS REGARDING THE INCREASE IN THE CONTRAILS IN THE SKY......
TO ABOUT A DOZEN MILITARY PILOTS BASED IN WAINWRIGHT.....
MANY I HAVE KNOWN SINCE GRADE SCHOOL.....
RIGHT OFF THE BAT.....
I WAS CHASTIZED FOR CALLING THEM NORMAL CONTRAILS.......
BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING NATURAL IN REGARDS TO THOSE DREADED LINES IN THE SKY......
YOU SEE ALBERTA AND MANY OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD ARE DIRECTLY BENEATH HOLES IN THE OZONE LAYER........
OR ARE SUBJECTED TO THIN OZONE LEVEL'S........
THOSE LINES IN THE SKY .....SPREAD OUT.......AND CREATE
A FILTER....BY PRODUCING CLOUD COVER......
THEIR WORDS NOT MINE......
SO IN LIGHT OF THIS NEW INFORMATION......FROM THE ACTUAL PILOTS THEMSELVES.....
I THINK IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO REOPEN THE CHEMTRAIL DEBATE.......
ANY TAKERS.....?WMM



5/25/2005
you see Jay Jay.....
I am not going to post my findings........
I am going to publish them........
WMM



You See Jay Jay......
I don't need to provide PROOF......of my associations......



Jay I Will Give You Time to RETHINK your POSITION BEFORE I REALLY GET SERIOUS IN DEBUNKING YOU.
2005 is the year THE TRUTH ABOUT CHEMTRAILS(CONTRAILS) will be FOUND.

Looks like you've only got four months left, BOY!

[halva]

The public awaits proof of your claims, whitey.
Still waiting, five months now.............


WMM brought upon himself this summons to testify before the grand inquisitor Reynolds, self-appointed spokesman for 'the public', when he challenged them to prove their 'views'.

The only subject that is of any interest in relation to Reynolds is has personal accountability for what he has been doing all these years, and its effects.. I hope that others, including BC, agree that there is a personal accountability issue where Reynolds is concerned.

I don't know to what extent he has broken existing laws, and if new laws are introduced in future it will not (or at least should not) be possible for them to be imposed retrospectively.

Given that IS has no interest in doing anything on this front other than engaging in repetitive rhetoric about Reynolds' 'criminality' I think others here should take up the issue. What laws has Reynolds broken and with what offences may he be charged?

If Reynolds is to figure in any way in the proceedings here, it should be as an object of discussion, not a subject in discussion.

WMM's issuing of challenges can only end up in increasingly puerile and low-quality exchanges with Reynolds and his pathetic dupe Yaak as we are seeing above.

[Boomer Chick]

I've been gathering material for the GREAT DEBATE! WMM, you are taking the "we'll never make it scenario" and I'm taking the other side of the debate, "yes, we will make it and better yet, we'll help the world thrive and us with it!" Right?

I'm compiling authors and the sides of the issues. Indeed, the debate rages between even quite scholarly scientists as well as this article relates.

End of Oil Could Fuel 'End of Civilization as We Know It'
By Robert Roy Britt
LiveScience Senior Writer
posted: 14 December 2004
03:28 pm ET

http://www.livescience.com/environment/end_oil_041214.html

Here's some energy news to prime you (whoever is reading) to the positive aspects of our human adaptation to alternative energy sources that will transition us into the newer, cleaner age to come.

Electric Vision
by Robert Preston
Political, economic and scientific studies have generated mixed data on the best source of electricity today. Members of Congress, Wall Street and academia have conflicting views on the "right source". We all depend on electricity at work, at home and everywhere in between. We flick the switch without much thought...until nothing happens. At that moment, how much would you pay for one minute of light?...a few pennies, a dollar? The cost today is around 0.01 cent. ...

...read the complete RE Insider at RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=35854)

[Boomer Chick]

This Week's Top News


300-900 MW Solar Project Planned for Southern California

Phoenix, Arizona [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-07 - Stirling Energy Systems' (SES) has announced a 300-900 MW solar power facility for San Diego Gas & Electric (SDG&E) in southern California. This is the second major solar project for SES in as many months, and when complete the project will provide 30 times more solar power than all the current solar capacity in the entire San Diego region.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36224)



CA's Solar Roofs Bill Threatened by Special Interests

by Barry Cinnamon, President--Akeena Solar
- 2005-09-01 - "Akeena Solar Goes Nuclear, Opposes California's Million Solar Roofs Bill.'' Good headline, huh? And it's true. The bill that would have made California a world leader in solar energy has been ruined by a partisan payoff to unions.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36053)



New Indiana Soy Biodiesel Plant to Produce 10M Gallons

Morristown, Indiana [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-06 - Indiana's first soy biodiesel production facility will produce 10 million gallons of soy biodiesel annually. In its first year of production, Integrity Biofuels will use 6.7 million bushels of Indiana soybeans.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36201)

[Boomer Chick]

Geothermal Power Plant in Nicaragua Underway

Toronto, Ontario [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-02 - Polaris Geothermal reports its progress generating commercial power on its San Jacinto Power Project in Nicaragua, projected to reach 66 MW. Construction of the first 10 MW phase of the project has been installed and both 5MW units have been tested and run synchronized to the national grid.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36115)



CA's Million Solar Roofs Bill Re-referred to Committee

- 2005-09-06 - In what appears to be a last ditch effort to save SB-1 and at the same time save political face, members of the California assembly re-referred the solar bill to the Utilities and Commerce Committee for the wrangling over final language.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36215)



Renewable Energy Project Proceeds in Buffalo

New York [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-06 - Laidlaw Energy Group is set to move ahead with its Buffalo area renewable energy project, the conversion of a natural gas fueled cogeneration plant into one that will solely use a renewable fuel source -- clean wood chips.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36205)



New Zealand Co. Probes Wind Farm Potential of 150MW

Palmerston North, New Zealand [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-06 - Mighty River Power has been selected by the Palmerston North City Council's to investigate wind electricity generation potential at the Council-owned reserve land in nearby Turitea. The first step at Turitea is to install a monitoring mast that will collect data to determine the potential for the project.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36204)



Biodiesel Gains Momentum in Trucking Industry

Jefferson City, Missouri [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-02 - The trucking industry is increasingly turning to biodiesel as an American-made supplement to regular diesel fuel. Several pumps at truck stops nationwide carry B20, a mixture of 20 percent biodiesel and 80 percent diesel, due in large part to Willie Nelson's biodiesel company.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36118)



adapt

[halva]

I note that BC is as usual accommodating and flattering rather than confronting the debunkers. Still, the debate she proposes is less useless than WMM's continuing attempt to treat Reynolds and Yaak as potential discussion partners.

[Boomer Chick]

Geneva Mission Launches Solar Energy Project

by Wendy Lubetkin, Washington File Staff Writer
- 2005-09-07 - Geneva - The U.S. Mission to the United Nations in Geneva has become the first United States diplomatic post with a building-integrated solar energy system.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36227)


Briefly Noted : A selection of this weeks's News Briefs
$25 M RFP for Renewable Energy Projects (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36207)

Community Radio Powered by the Sun (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36230)

ZAP Electric Cars Are Selling (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36232)

UK Gov't Awards Solar Grants (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36122)

Mfr.'s REC Initiative Sets New Precedent (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36124)

Product News
Midnite Solar: E-Panel
2005-09-06

Robin Gudgel, originally affiliated with OutBack Power Systems, is assembling a team of engineers to develop Midnite Solar's first product offering, a BOS panel that fills an industry void. With the E-Panel, inverter installation has been reduced to minutes.

Read more product info on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36210)


SolarBee - Solar Aeration Unit
2005-09-06

The SolarBee's solar-powered mixing action can clean up freshwater lakes and ponds, potable water tanks and reservoirs, and wastewater by circulating the water, which prevents growth of toxic algae infestations and milfoil caused by fertilizer runoff.

Read more product info on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36212)


Model R247C Solar Flashing Beacon
2005-09-02

Carmanah introduces the Model R247C 24-hour flashing beacon. It is a compact solar-powered LED flashing beacon that uses an ITE compliant signal module.

Read more product info on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36126)


New Relay Driver to Start Solar Controllers
2005-09-01

Morningstar introduced the Relay Driver for renewable energy applications. The logic module provides system control functions such as high/low voltage alarms, load control and generator start.

Read more product info on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36060)


Recent Press Releases from our Marketing Partners


SunWize Schedules Fall 2005 Conference

Kingston, New York - 2005-09-01 - SunWize invites all solar dealers and installers to their annual West Coast Conference at the Marriott Courtyard in Oxnard, California, November 9 through 12. Events include fifteen manufacturer displays, 50-minute product presentations, manufacturer training sessions and the popular SunWize Dealer Panel Discussions.

Full Press Release on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36033)



OutBack Power Systems New Product Training October 5th in Washington, DC

Arlington, Washington - 2005-09-01 - OutBack Power Systems, Inc., a leader in cutting edge power conversion equipment, is inviting alternative energy dealers and distributors to attend a new product training to be held at the Hyatt Regency on Capitol Hill on October 5th.

Full Press Release on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36094)



ICP Solar Launches New Range of Industrial Solar Panels

MONTREAL, CANADA - 2005-08-30 - ICP Solar, a leading manufacturer of products based on advanced solar technology, today announced the launch of a new range of industrial solar panels.

Full Press Release on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=35963)

;)

Stop your petty bickering ! The world needs cooperation and understanding now, not bickering and ridiculous theatrics! Take a side and contribute if you care enough about your world and your reality. Thanks!

Side 1 -- the world is dying and so is man

Side 2 -- the world is changing and the biosphere and humanity will adapt !

[halva]

Does this put both you and Reynolds on Side 2?

Yes or no? No other answer required.

[halva]

WMM you might find that joining in the discussion on Peak Oil that "backstop" is trying to initiate on our closed forum will get you further than what is on offer here.

Certainly less neurotic/sado-masochistic.

And with advantages over the dialogue of the deaf that IS is conducting on his thread.

[jayreynolds]

And with advantages over the dialogue of the deaf that IS is conducting on his thread.
Very uncomplimentary to Jimbo, Wayne. Considering he was the man who invented chemtrails to save the world.........

[Boomer Chick]

Does this put both you and Reynolds on Side 2?

Yes or no? No other answer required.

Dearest Wayne (and anyone who reads this),

I assume you're sitting over in Greece, not actually swimming in grease of course nor surrounded by a pool of grease, nor sporting grease in your hair, but sitting in some cafe or your living room (near a window) and clicking on your laptop keys as we all are wont to do. LOL! Actually it's required, but in your piping up and chiming in every so often, you remind me of those side characters offering comic relief in many of Shakespeare's plays. Your role, therefore, has eroded to these almost parrotlike interjections and I would implore you at this time to create for yourself a new and more improved version of Halva on the public site known as Arianna's Online Forum.

I'm imploring you and stimulating you to realize a more prominent role in the drama of the science forum. Clean your mind. Sweep out the cobwebs, and express yourself with reckless abandon tempered with profound academic credibility and accuracy. Like a brilliant attorney in a court of law, pressing forward on his case, with his verbal acuman accompanying his list of witnesses, evidence, and motivational circumstantial evidence, he sways the jury of listeners to hear either his defense or his prosecution, for a brilliant attorney will persuade when the evidence compels no matter the side of guilt or innocence. So please, Halva, take a side on this future projection regarding our adaptation to planetary changes.

I care not what forum WWM and I, or Jay, you, Yaak, FS, and Et or anyone else chooses to present evidence for future projections.... for I was asked to participate in this project here, and I have accepted the challenge.

I ask that whole articles be linked and not copy and pasted and that our reasoning be in our own words with small quotes and expert testimony and links to support our positions. So far, in the past six months at least, we've all explored topics that relate to this one, whether it be biological systems, atmospheric systems, man's pollutants, or other cosmic and/or solar system forces.

We've all generally touched upon and read in the areas which do in fact create the global picture we strive to understand in terms of resources, weather changes, and adaptations or the possibilities of political/business forces preventing and denying life-promoting adaptation AND/OR the possibilities of unforeseen natural impacts of an extra planetary origin preventing successful adaptation to defined planetary changes. For awhile, we couldn't even agree that changes were occurring, regarding global temps and weather patterns. I think we've all come to realize that changes ARE occurring and exactly what they are and how they impact the biosphere and our place in it.

Whether we created the changes we see matters only to the degree that we change that behavior so that the negative changes don't accumulate and continue over time. Let's just accept that in adapting to alternative energies, that that negative contribution will lessen. Let's just all accept that before going on. If we can't accept that the manmade carbon creation and other particulates will lessen over time, then how can we project anything into the future other than more of the same and more negative consequences?

So, WMM et al, if you feel that the carbon spewing and pollution-spewing will continue unabated or even excelerated, then you must admit to your view first and primarily because regarding that assumption and adopting it, indeed I would have to agree from the start that there's no hope for the future.

I start off this discussion, therefore, assuming through observation that adaptation to alternative means of fuels and energies have already begun and will continue and that laws and awareness globally have progressed and will continue to progress in addressing man's contributions to atmospheric gases and particulates. The situation will improve.

We must also be aware of the natural sources of greenhouse gases and other kinds of gases. Methane may play a large role in the very near future. The information is available.

In the same vein, another aspect related to future scenarios involves mother nature herself. If you wish to predict the trends regarding volcanic and earthquake events, please use links to support your predicted trends for trends from the past to now are all we have to go on. Prophecy cannot be allowed on this scientific forum although personally I would love to include it. LOL! As far as cosmic events, I will use scientific studies and maybe some non-mainstream scientists, but I will make every effort to present logical and sound scientific information. If you don't like my links or scientists, please attack them in an academic and logical way. Hey?

Halva, you are a part of this and if you don't want to participate, don't, but I would love to read your contributions regardless of your "side" of the issue. If anyone wants to take a side as a purely academic exercise.... please do.

No one is excluded here and anyone reading who would like to post in the discussion is welcome. If you want to start a new thread devoted to this discussion, rather than conduct it on Climate Change..... start one. But WMM, since he requested the "debate" should decide on that. He could offer his thread, Peak Oil, for the GREAT DEBATE, also.

Are you "in" , Halva?

BC

[whitemajikman]

Warning issued on November 18, 1992
World Scientists' Warning To Humanity
Some 1,700 of the world's leading scientists, including the majority of Nobel laureates in the sciences, issued this appeal in November 1992. The Warning was written and spearheaded by UCS Chair Henry Kendall.
Human beings and the natural world are on a collision course. Human activities inflict harsh and often irreversible damage on the environment and on critical resources. If not checked, many of our current practices put at serious risk the future that we wish for human society and the plant and animal kingdoms, and may so alter the living world that it will be unable to sustain life in the manner that we know. Fundamental changes are urgent if we are to avoid the collision our present course will bring about.

The Environment
The environment is suffering critical stress:

The Atmosphere
Stratospheric ozone depletion threatens us with enhanced ultraviolet radiation at the earth's surface, which can be damaging or lethal to many life forms. Air pollution near ground level, and acid precipitation, are already causing widespread injury to humans, forests and crops.
Water Resources
Heedless exploitation of depletable ground water supplies endangers food production and other essential human systems. Heavy demands on the world's surface waters have resulted in serious shortages in some 80 countries, containing 40% of the world's population. Pollution of rivers, lakes and ground water further limits the supply.
Oceans
Destructive pressure on the oceans is severe, particularly in the coastal regions which produce most of the world's food fish. The total marine catch is now at or above the estimated maximum sustainable yield. Some fisheries have already shown signs of collapse. Rivers carrying heavy burdens of eroded soil into the seas also carry industrial, municipal, agricultural, and livestock waste -- some of it toxic.
Soil
Loss of soil productivity, which is causing extensive Land abandonment, is a widespread byproduct of current practices in agriculture and animal husbandry. Since 1945, 11% of the earth's vegetated surface has been degraded -- an area larger than India and China combined -- and per capita food production in many parts of the world is decreasing.
Forests
Tropical rain forests, as well as tropical and temperate dry forests, are being destroyed rapidly. At present rates, some critical forest types will be gone in a few years and most of the tropical rain forest will be gone before the end of the next century. With them will go large numbers of plant and animal species.
Living Species
The irreversible loss of species, which by 2100 may reach one third of all species now living, is especially serious. We are losing the potential they hold for providing medicinal and other benefits, and the contribution that genetic diversity of life forms gives to the robustness of the world's biological systems and to the astonishing beauty of the earth itself.
Much of this damage is irreversible on a scale of centuries or permanent. Other processes appear to pose additional threats. Increasing levels of gases in the atmosphere from human activities, including carbon dioxide released from fossil fuel burning and from deforestation, may alter climate on a global scale. Predictions of global warming are still uncertain -- with projected effects ranging from tolerable to very severe -- but the potential risks are very great.

Our massive tampering with the world's interdependent web of life -- coupled with the environmental damage inflicted by deforestation, species loss, and climate change -- could trigger widespread adverse effects, including unpredictable collapses of critical biological systems whose interactions and dynamics we only imperfectly understand.

Uncertainty over the extent of these effects cannot excuse complacency or delay in facing the threat.

Population
The earth is finite. Its ability to absorb wastes and destructive effluent is finite. Its ability to provide food and energy is finite. Its ability to provide for growing numbers of people is finite. And we are fast approaching many of the earth's limits. Current economic practices which damage the environment, in both developed and underdeveloped nations, cannot be continued without the risk that vital global systems will be damaged beyond repair.

Pressures resulting from unrestrained population growth put demands on the natural world that can overwhelm any efforts to achieve a sustainable future. If we are to halt the destruction of our environment, we must accept limits to that growth. A World Bank estimate indicates that world population will not stabilize at less than 12.4 billion, while the United Nations concludes that the eventual total could reach 14 billion, a near tripling of today's 5.4 billion. But, even at this moment, one person in five lives in absolute poverty without enough to eat, and one in ten suffers serious malnutrition.

No more than one or a few decades remain before the chance to avert the threats we now confront will be lost and the prospects for humanity immeasurably diminished.

Warning
We the undersigned, senior members of the world's scientific community, hereby warn all humanity of what lies ahead. A great change in our stewardship of the earth and the life on it, is required, if vast human misery is to be avoided and our global home on this planet is not to be irretrievably mutilated.

What We Must Do

Five inextricably linked areas must be addressed simultaneously:

We must bring environmentally damaging activities under control to restore and protect the integrity of the earth's systems we depend on. We must, for example, move away from fossil fuels to more benign, inexhaustible energy sources to cut greenhouse gas emissions and the pollution of our air and water. Priority must be given to the development of energy sources matched to third world needs -- small scale and relatively easy to implement. We must halt deforestation, injury to and loss of agricultural land, and the loss of terrestrial and marine plant and animal species.
We must manage resources crucial to human welfare more effectively. We must give high priority to efficient use of energy, water, and other materials, including expansion of conservation and recycling.
We must stabilize population. This will be possible only if all nations recognize that it requires improved social and economic conditions, and the adoption of effective, voluntary family planning.
We must reduce and eventually eliminate poverty.
We must ensure sexual equality, and guarantee women control over their own reproductive decisions.
The developed nations are the largest polluters in the world today. They must greatly reduce their over-consumption, if we are to reduce pressures on resources and the global environment. The developed nations have the obligation to provide aid and support to developing nations, because only the developed nations have the financial resources and the technical skills for these tasks.

Acting on this recognition is not altruism, but enlightened self-interest: whether industrialized or not, we all have but one lifeboat. No nation can escape from injury when global biological systems are damaged. No nation can escape from conflicts over increasingly scarce resources. In addition, environmental and economic instabilities will cause mass migrations with incalculable consequences for developed and undeveloped nations alike.

Developing nations must realize that environmental damage is one of the gravest threats they face, and that attempts to blunt it will be overwhelmed if their populations go unchecked. The greatest peril is to become trapped in spirals of environmental decline, poverty, and unrest, leading to social, economic and environmental collapse.

Success in this global endeavor will require a great reduction in violence and war. Resources now devoted to the preparation and conduct of war -- amounting to over $1 trillion annually -- will be badly needed in the new tasks and should be diverted to the new challenges.

A new ethic is required -- a new attitude towards discharging our responsibility for caring for ourselves and for the earth. We must recognize the earth's limited capacity to provide for us. We must recognize its fragility. We must no longer allow it to be ravaged. This ethic must motivate a great movement, convince reluctant leaders and reluctant governments and reluctant peoples themselves to effect the needed changes.

The scientists issuing this warning hope that our message will reach and affect people everywhere. We need the help of many.

We require the help of the world community of scientists -- natural, social, economic, political;

We require the help of the world's business and industrial leaders;

We require the help of the worlds religious leaders; and

We require the help of the world's peoples.

We call on all to join us in this task.

Union of Concerned Scientists
96 Church Street
Cambridge, Mass 02238-9105, USA

VOX: 617-547-5552
FAX: 617-864-9405
http://www.ucsusa.org/
ucs@igc.apc.org

Warning issued on November 18, 1992

[halva]

The world needs cooperation and understanding now, not bickering and ridiculous theatrics! Take a side and contribute if you care enough about your world and your reality. Thanks!

Side 1 -- the world is dying and so is man

Side 2 -- the world is changing and the biosphere and humanity will adapt !

BC, I have not noticed WMM or anyone else accepting the terms of the debate as you define it, nor your interpretation of the two sides.

However, since you wish to include everyone in the discussion, even Reynolds and his sole remaining disciple Yaak, to get the ball rolling you could ask him

1) does he agree with you that the premises outlined above form the basis for the two sides in the proposed debate?

2) does he see himself and you as being 'on the same side'?

If the answer to either or both of these two questions for him is 'no',

a) what alternative formulation does he propose? and
b) in what way are you and he not on the same side?

[jayreynolds]

However, since you wish to include everyone in the discussion including Reynolds and his sole remaining disciple Yaak, to get the ball rolling you could ask him

1) does he agree with you that the premises outlined above form the basis for the two sides in the proposed debate?

2) does he see himself and you as being 'on the same side'?

Side 1 -- the world is dying and so is man

Side 2 -- the world is changing and the biosphere and humanity will adapt !


Of course the world has always changed. Of course man has adapted.
The notion of an unchanging world is patently false, change is indeed necessary for biodiversity, renewal, and evolution. I see no reason, based on past performance, to think otherwise. A life built upon a paradigm of fear and dread for the future is not in the least productive, and such inputs are designed to influence human choices through emotion rather than reason, resulting in irrational decisions.

as far as debate with whitey, until such time as he decides to come clean and be honest, I wouldn't expect him to debate honestly.

[halva]

So it seems, BC, that WMM is not interested in continuing the debate on the terms you propose and Reynolds is not prepared to say whether he thinks you and he are on the same side or opposite sides.

[Yaak]

These are the sides as I see them:

1. The side of truth and reason; facts

Boomer, Jay Reynolds, Yaak, Stuart Allsop and most of the rest of the world



2. The side of fabrication, exaggeration, speculation, embellishment and attempted manipulation.

Wayne Hall, Jim Phelps, WMM along with a handful of other kooks, degenerates, charlatans and liars

[Boomer Chick]

Side 1 -- the world is dying and so is man

Side 2 -- the world is changing and the biosphere and humanity will adapt !


Of course the world has always changed. Of course man has adapted.
The notion of an unchanging world is patently false, change is indeed necessary for biodiversity, renewal, and evolution. I see no reason, based on past performance, to think otherwise. A life built upon a paradigm of fear and dread for the future is not in the least productive, and such inputs are designed to influence human choices through emotion rather than reason, resulting in irrational decisions.

as far as debate with whitey, until such time as he decides to come clean and be honest, I wouldn't expect him to debate honestly.

Thanks, Jay. That was clear and quite concise. I also agree with it.

I noticed that WMM cut and pasted and I wondered if that was done on purpose or just an oversight. He was the one who wanted this "debate/conversation." I understand your view of WMM and wish everyone would practice more tolerance and kindness... that's all.

Halva, I know you see that Jay and I are basically on the same side of this future projections discussion. It has nothing to do with me or anyone else... it's Jay's view on the world and it's my view on the world, and you have yours. We come to our views independently and if some views resonate then that's a reality and if others views do not resonate, that's a reality. There's nothing to be garnered by speculation on social dynamics or even thinking in such terms. Jay has always been outspoken and independent as it seems, we all are. We agree, we disagree, we hold certain views and that's variety.

Really Halva, you should have been a teacher because you are amazingly fascinated and obsessed (it seems) with social dynamics. In a classroom you could have studied the various groupings of personalities, their views, made graphs, rearranged groupings, and really could have learned a lot about human behavior. From the elementary level through college social dynamics in learning and classroom interactions play a varying role in learning constructs. It's a fascinating subject.

Halva, you failed to answer my question to you: Are you going to participate? I assume Jay won't have time and very concisely expressed his position as his contribution and I appreciate it. Shawn wanted to bring the discussion into the debate realm..... so I'll wait until I hear from him in regard to my suggestions or whether he even wants to continue. Hey! People can change their minds and perhaps his intentions stimulated him to focus on the subject and do a little more investigating and perhaps realize that no-one on the planet can possibly know the future.............. unless they have a time machine! Hee hee ! All we can do as humans is to move forward, adapt, innovate, attempt to mitigate, and through awareness and faith..... hope for the best. The earth is a gigantic system with balances and mutational adaptations we observe and are ONLY beginning to understand and you add in the cosmic and solar cycles and energies and prediction becomes an impossible game. And yes, I will throw in the ET possibility as well.

OK, I'll just wait before I even start posting. Maybe this will just die out.

Thanks for posting, Jay and Halva, and WMM, please let me know what you want at this time and post something in regard to this discussion.... not a c & p.... or we will just let it be an individual world view and opinion without any sharing or discussion.

Thanks!

BC ;)

[Boomer Chick]

These are the sides as I see them:

1. The side of truth and reason; facts

Boomer, Jay Reynolds, Yaak, Stuart Allsop and most of the rest of the world



2. The side of fabrication, exaggeration, speculation, embellishment and attempted manipulation.

Wayne Hall, Jim Phelps, WMM along with a handful of other kooks, degenerates, charlatans and liars



Thanks, Yaaky. I find your view a bit strict and narrow, but of course its your view, not mine. I'm stressing individuality here (and everywhere) and I find every person on your list to be complete and utter individuals incapable of being slotted into any category, including me. In regard to Halva, IS, and WMM...... I see them even more individually! Don't you hate to generalize, Ed? Come on......go beyond the surface utterances and look behind the masks into their hearts and their minds and motivations. Yes, we can call a spade a spade at times, but labelling people "kooks, degenerates, charlatans" is really quite unproductive. It's a form of stereotyping, a form of labelling that disregards anyone's humanity and it sets up a defense/offense reaction dynamic.

In terms of all three of these human beings I see intelligence beyond the norm and skills in writing and thinking beyond the norm. It's our emotional and possibly chemical component as well as our past experiences in life that make us who we are. Please lets not divide this board into ranks and files of stereotypical types, OK?

Let's realize that labelling, putting into groups and demonizing others is a form of thinking that divides humanity and is the basis, if you think of it.... of war.

Ed, I know you're a good person and I know you have a heart of gold and a love and compassion within you. Please let's take all of our social interactions as seriously....even those on boards.... as the respresentation of who we are in the world. We are our own abassadors and what comes out of our fingers and our minds is important and reflects upon us and our spirits. Holding back sometimes and refusing to judge....often allows others more freedom. Of course when it comes to self defense, life and death, one must call a spade a spade and act. But in terms of board and social interactions such as these, please remember your own spirit.

WE ARE ALL INDIVIDUALS AS UNIQUE AS SNOWFLAKES

Respectfully......BC

[whitemajikman]

I used The 1992 warning that I Cut and Pasted To Illustrate what it will Take For Mankind To Succeed and Flourish..........and also to Illustrate how far we TRULY are from this goal 15 years later........

Boomer I am Still Very Interested In Debating The Issue I have Set Forth.......

But If we are to debate this Issue we must also touch upon the entire scope of issues which relate to this issue..........

for example.....

The Rise In Sectarian Politics and what role religion will play Globally ........

What effects Mass Extinction will have on our environment and on mankind itself.......

What the effects of Global Climate Change will do to the world economies...........

How our Global Governments handle the social aspects of continuing economic and energy burdens........

How Global Populations react to their own respective govenment and religious propaganda .........

how Threatened is Global agriculture and Global Sustenance.........

How We As Individuals would react to a continued Global Crisis........And How Would Our Governments......

These Are Just A Few Boomer........That I Have Come Up With Off The Cuff........

What Will Be Interesting I Think For Both of Us is how we relate Your Side of the debate to mine and vice-versa.......

I will use science ,History,and Human Intellect to prove my case........

And I truly Hope That I Am Wrong in my original conclusion.........

I will Begin Later on Today .........

When I have More TimeTo Dedicate to this Issue That I have Brought To Light.......

In The Meantime Please Look At The Examples I have Stated and Bring Them Into Your Equation Of Events........Just As I Have Brought your Hope and Inspiration Into My Equation of Events.......

Together We Just Might Just Learn A Few Things That We Took For Granted Before This ............

Shawn

[whitemajikman]

Global climatic and environmental crisis and its solution
Part one - the problem1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Summary
A combination of climatic and environmental disturbances have been mutually reinforcing each other causing a deterioration of the world ecology. Ongoing global warming, mass extinction of species and overpopulation are key problems.

Experts predict that if this continues, it will have serious consequences for mankind.

To prevent this, immediate and effectively coordinated international cooperation between all countries is necessary.

We are therefore happy to inform that a scientifically confirmed method is now being implemented that is able to rapidly create the cooperation necessary for to turn the global development in a positive direction.

Oh really .......we shall see..........


http://www.psrast.org/globecolcr.htm#rapglo

The Global Co-operation that is needed for mankind to Survive is not even close to being realized at this time..........and everyday that goes by without immediate co-operative global intervention is another day closer to Mankinds imminent extinction.......our Biosphere is so intricate that even the scientist's themselves are starting to realize just how fragile the balance is ..........what they fear most in my opinion is that will there be enough time,money,and energy to successfully curtail this extinction-level event.........and will the politics and ideologies of the world allow them to succeed........

So Far to this date It Is Not Happening on a Global level because the extent of the threat has been be-littled and ridiculed as being just another conspiracy theory that we will all be
able to walk away from scot free..........without suffering it's catastrophic effects .........

If I am illiciting a sense of FEAR.........that is because I fear for mankind's future and the
future of my children and their future generations........

There Is A Sense among the Global Community that there is something being done about this multi-pronged problem mankind faces..........my question to all ......is ....

IsThere Something Really Being Done or is it all just window dressing for the masses.......

Quite Honestly I think it is the Latter.......

"Climate change is for real. We have just a small window of opportunity and it is closing rather rapidly. There is not a moment to lose....We are risking the ability of the human race to survive."


What Are Your Thoughts so far Boomer..........?

WMM

[halva]

It is very important to make the distinction between problem and solution, though really WMM does not strictly observe the distinction in the rest of his posting.

[Boomer Chick]

Global climatic and environmental crisis and its solution
Part one - the problem1

WMM, thanks for brainstorming.

Before you continue, I would suggest we define "crisis". Is there a crisis and if there is, of what does it consist?

Are we only concentrating on "climatic" and "environmental" aspects of the supposed "crisis?" Would not man's political/economic attitudes and secreted scientific experimentation with weaponry come into play in terms of "crisis?" Would the degradation of energy resources come into play here? Would humanity play a role in any of this? In using climate and environment you tend to miss the interferring player here..... us.

Are we to define the crisis in only climatic and environmental terms and not other terms?

Crisis:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=crisis


So, in your first sentence, your title, you may present questions that require answering and you may through your word usage, assume something of which others may not agree.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Summary (Actually Thesis would be a better term for this part)
A combination of climatic and environmental disturbances have been mutually reinforcing each other causing a deterioration of the world ecology.

Actually, your sentence is poorly worded and uses improper grammar (above). Anthropormorphism and as well as your subject, "a combination," not matching your verb, "reinforcing", and generally a confusing sentence requires some more rewording and rewriting for clarity of meaning. "Disturbances" cannot reinforce and neither can "combinations" nor can they "cause." ....just a poor word combination. Do you really want to say that climatic disturbances and environmental disturbances reinforce (eachother) and cause deterioration of the world ecology? Does it work both ways? For example, does the deteriorating ecology, like dying coral reefs, in turn effect the climate? But what caused the coral reefs to die? Man alone? The water alone? The weather alone? In some cases there is a direct interaction, but in some, the interaction is more of a balance than it is a exacerbation of deterioration as in phytoplankton actually producing clouds to protect itself from UV. Remember that one?

Is this solely the reason for ecological deterioration and you must define "ecological deterioration" as well. Is it really deteriorated and to what extent? What about man's contribution to polluting environments and man's usage of resources?


Ongoing global warming, mass extinction of species and overpopulation are key problems.

Whoa! Here you're presenting more problems and an expanded thesis. Is global warming a problem? Is mass extinction a reality? And is the world actually overpoopulated with what? Humans? You did not define your "overpopulation" as related to humans.


Experts predict that if this continues, it will have serious consequences for mankind.

Would it be possible to use the word "trends" without feeling like you're unoriginal? If planetary warming, mass extinction of animal and plant species and human overpopulation continue..... there will be serious consequences? What consequences? What kind? And if man is sustaining certain populations upon the planet, it must mean that man is thriving, but thriving at the expense of animals and plants? Is it true that "overpopulation" is a reality? There's debate about that, as well.

Solution?
To prevent this, immediate and effectively coordinated international cooperation between all countries is necessary.

I agree. Is this the only solution? International cooperation? Wouldn't there be many multi-pronged solutions to the stated problems? What about overpopulation? Business and economic trade and sharing? Technicological scientific cooperation? Educational systems within countries? Changes in lifestyles?


We are therefore happy to inform that a scientifically confirmed method is now being implemented that is able to rapidly create the cooperation necessary for to turn the global development in a positive direction.

Oh really .......we shall see..........

Cute! A bit of sarcasm there, heh? Remember, there are various levels of international cooperation at this time. Business levels, university and educational system levels, professional scientific levels, trading and business levels, and government levels along with other international consortiums and churches. You might include social and travel levels as well as tourism and hospitality levels. So while some levels may be slow, others may increase their evolution and development.

[Boomer Chick]

http://www.psrast.org/globecolcr.htm#rapglo

The Global Co-operation that is needed for mankind to Survive is not even close to being realized at this time..........and everyday that goes by without immediate co-operative global intervention is another day closer to Mankinds imminent extinction.......our Biosphere is so intricate that even the scientist's themselves are starting to realize just how fragile the balance is ..........what they fear most in my opinion is that will there be enough time,money,and energy to successfully curtail this extinction-level event.........and will the politics and ideologies of the world allow them to succeed........

OK, prove your point that cooperation is not even close. Prove your point that the Biosphere is "intricate" and therefore "fragile". I see it as "intricate" and therefore that much more able to balance, adjust, and adapt. Intricacy may indeed mean increased adaptability and mutational ability (in living organisms) than we think. In terms of intricate weather patterns....... again, it doesn't necessarily mean "fragile" and may include far more molecular balancing mechanisms than scientists realize. We're only beginning to study in a comprehensive manner, the atmospheric system. What "extinction level event?" You did not define anything of the sort. Suddenly you bring in "extinction" as a human term and you failed to even define or discuss it. "Time, money, and energy?" Do you have a quote from some scientist who said that? The innovation of scientific creativity is already directed in the save-the-biosphere-and-humanity direction! Although yes, too much of our scientific brainpower has gone the way of weaponry and not into alternative and renewable energy resources and sources... but that is changing quite quickly. Also, with the advent of privatization and private R & D, there's less need to rely on government funding for many projects. States and counties do some funding of as well. Nonetheless, the gov. studies on climate and the atmosphere progress as well and many of the technologies used in weaponry which could be used to increase positive molecular components of the atmosphere and even those components that protect humanity from cosmic rays.


So Far to this date It Is Not Happening on a Global level because the extent of the threat has been be-littled and ridiculed as being just another conspiracy theory that we will all be
able to walk away from scot free..........without suffering it's catastrophic effects .........

More is happening in Euro countries regarding energy independence and ecology than is happening here, legislatively federally, but we've made improvements even here. Even Japan is ahead of us. Australia is progressing. Of course third world countries don't have the ability to even fund science or think of alternative energies because they don't use energies of any kind other than to burn wood for fire. However, these very third world countries will benefit and develop their own energy sources with the help of other nations in the realm of solar, wind, geothermal, wave action, and other clean and cheap energy sources so that their countries will stay clean and healthy while they develop ways to transport products, grow their food, and find, filter, and transport water. And of course, all done through cooperation but without the greed and inslavement (debt) the global banks tend to create. Private companies and international cooperatives will do much to help other countries as well.


If I am illiciting a sense of FEAR.........that is because I fear for mankind's future and the
future of my children and their future generations........

There Is A Sense among the Global Community that there is something being done about this multi-pronged problem mankind faces..........my question to all ......is ....

IsThere Something Really Being Done or is it all just window dressing for the masses.......

Quite Honestly I think it is the Latter.......

Window dressing? Something really being done? Of course there is! Look around you! Take a trip to Germany, to Sweden, Japan. Do you read those energy links I post? Do you see what's happening in California? Do you see the various companies coming up! Making solar panels? Windmills? Wavegenerators? All kinds of things! It's exciting! Water osmosis!


"Climate change is for real. We have just a small window of opportunity and it is closing rather rapidly. There is not a moment to lose....We are risking the ability of the human race to survive."

First of all, climate change is real. However, assuming because it's changing that we can (1) do something about it if it's not totally our contributions that cause the warming (2) we don't know totally that the warming will have horrible consequences and many suspect it occurred before, and (3) that even if we transitioned totally off of oil in 10 years, the earth might go through weather and climate changes anyway... our efforts to prevent our additions to the atmosphere may be in vain. We don't know, but we don't want to take the chance. Another aspect? We may indeed be able through science to clean up much of what has been polluted.

Survival of humanity has more to do with humanity's spirituality than it has to do with the planet. Yes, cooperation between all humans is truly a prerequisite for problem solving. The problem is secrecy and poor government here. Playing with planetary energies in the weapons department is the biggest threat in my opinion. Dwindling oil resources don't bother me as much as man's lack of spirituality in domination schemes and war agendas. Especially in the EMF weapons and electro-magnetic manipulations and even mind energy manipulations. That's the biggest threat. Not global warming, not seas rising, not plankton dying (which I don't agree with), not UV rays..... but man. Now, if man can be shocked into realizing our Oneness and our interdependency.... then even if astroids fall, volcanoes blow, and earthquakes shake, we'll all help one another to make it through. Some will go on.... but we all go on anyway. Our human race is special and good in so many ways..... and the duality dance continues.... it's a special time in which we live. We are awakening spiritually more and more every day.


What Are Your Thoughts so far Boomer..........?

WMM[/QUOTE]

Well, that was just a quick response and not formal.

[halva]

What we now have at this forum are two parallel and mutually despising discourses: one of abstract denunciation, the other of abstract self-analysis.

As far as I am concerned, people motivated to try any more to engage with them disqualify themselves as would-be participants in focused activity.

[Boomer Chick]

What we now have at this forum are two parallel and mutually despising discourses: one of abstract denunciation, the other of abstract self-analysis.

As far as I am concerned, people motivated to try any more to engage with them disqualify themselves as would-be participants in focused activity.

Squawking again, Halva? My GAWD you make me laugh! You sound like our neighbor's Amazon parrot sitting on his perch on their deck, squawking and squawking about nothing at all!

Please define the "abstract self-analysis" diatribe, would you? I can't seem to find it when I put in a search!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHA!

[halva]

Really Halva, you should have been a teacher because you are amazingly fascinated and obsessed (it seems) with social dynamics. In a classroom you could have studied the various groupings of personalities, their views, made graphs, rearranged groupings, and really could have learned a lot about human behavior. From the elementary level through college social dynamics in learning and classroom interactions play a varying role in learning constructs. It's a fascinating subject.


BC, I am a teacher.

BC, in another of your recent postings you pointed out that you had been invited here, and as I agree that it was I who invited here, I put the following to you. I would like everyone here to say if they agree with the demands raised, and whether they wish to support the bold section of the text in the following. That includes IS. As for the debunkers, I could not care less about them and whether they support or do not support the text.

CLIMATE CHANGE AND GEOENGINEERING

One element that is missing from ecological and social movement discussion about climate change is the ‘geoengineering’ dimension. This is one of the words used for techniques being proposed more and more frequently by scientists and commercial journalists as a ‘politically realistic’ remedy for climate change.

An article (http://www.popsci.com/popsci/aviationspace/3afd8ca927d05010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd.html) recently published in the magazine Popular Science provides a characteristic example of these kinds of proposals.

Describing a meeting in the White House in September 2001 organized by the US President’s Climate Change Technology Program to discuss ‘Response Options to Rapid or Severe Climate Change’, the article frankly admits that ‘while administration officials were insisting publicly that there was no firm proof that the planet was warming, they were quietly exploring potential ways to turn down the heat.’

In March 2001 President Bush had withdrawn US support from the Kyoto Protocol. This meeting therefore represented something like a US counterproposal to Kyoto, an ‘alternative approach to climate change’.

(Also see Edward Teller's Sunscreen for Planet Earth. (http://www.hooverdigest.org/981/teller.html)

The physicist and economist David Keith, who was present at the meeting, is quoted in the article as saying ‘if they had broadcast that meeting live to people in Europe, there would have been riots.’

Anyone can see what the ‘geoengineering’ proposals were simply by reading the relevant article in Popular Science. For those for whom that is difficult, they included: 1) underground storage of carbon dioxide, 2) wind scrubbers to filter carbon dioxide from the air, 3) ‘fertilization’ of oceans with iron to encourage growth of plankton, 4) petrification of carbon dioxide, 5) deflection of sunlight from the earth through the use of a giant space mirror ‘spanning 600,000 square miles’.

One point worth mentioning at least in passing is that, apart from the question of how effective these measures would really be, all these highly oil-dependent ‘solutions’ to problems largely caused in the first place by burning fossil fuels, are being prepared for a world that is beginning to run out of oil. (!)

In the case of at least one geoengineering measure, by no means the most ‘outlandish’, namely: ‘Enhancing Clouds to Reflect Sunlight’, a mass of eyewitness evidence for all over the world suggests that, despite official denials, a programme serving some such purpose is not merely a proposal but a reality and has been under implementation on an immensely large scale for at least a decade.

How significant are official denials? Note that the Popular Science article itself admits that the US administration’s words about ‘proof that the planet is warming’ do not match its deeds. If untruthful official denial of global warming is possible, why should untruthful official denial of actually ongoing measures, supposedly to combat global warming, not similarly be possible?
The international ecological and social movements should take the following position:

1) If geoengineering projects of the kind proposed by the US President’s Climate Change Technology Program are actually being implemented and are harmful to the environment and human health, they should be stopped.

2) If a significant section of international scientific opinion (for example the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) believes that such measures against climate change are necessary, the measures must be legalized. Only in this way are citizens who regard the measures as harmful to the environment and human health enabled publicly and legally to oppose them.

If such geoengineering programmes are actually being implemented and governments and scientists all deny that fact, the only beneficiaries from this are the ‘conservative’ climate-change-sceptic party-political lobbies supporting President Bush who seek to deny virtually all environmental problems and in this way politically marginalize ecologically-active citizens.

[jayreynolds]

If such geoengineering programmes are actually being implemented and governments and scientists all deny that fact, the only beneficiaries from this are the ‘conservative’ climate-change-sceptic party-political lobbies supporting President Bush who seek to deny virtually all environmental problems and in this way politically marginalize ecologically-active citizens.

But, Wayne, where your people have failed, and the reason for that failure is quite obvious, is the sticky little matter of proof that such a program is "actually being implemented".

Old bean, you are simply off your rocker to contend that all governments and scientists would deny that fact.

Don't try and say something is a fact without providing any factual evidence whatsoever!

The results of your Quixotic quest has been allying yourself with a pack of liars, nutcases, and an array of extremist denizens who have no credibility.

You have marginalized yourself, and played directly into the hand of those you say you oppose!

In the process, your efforts have accomplished nothing except to distract and discredit the very environmental goals you claim to support. At this point, after scientists, climate change activists such a Ross Gelbspan, and even the radical environmental group Greenpeace have spurned the "chemtrails" hoax, what do you have left to do?

You have reduced yourself to a small flock of marginalized sheople bleating on closed messageboards, nutters fabricating stories on crackpot websites, and fruitless photographing of ordinary contrails six miles away.

When will you realize that continuing the same failed tactics can only result in the same failed results?

In short, you have utterly failed in promotion of "chemtrails" because the hoax was doomed at the outset by the steamroller of truth.

[halva]

I have told you that I am not interested in your response Reynolds.

BC, do you have anything to say?

[jayreynolds]

I have told you that I am not interested in your response Reynolds.

But anyone that reads this board is interested in your NON- RESPONSE, Wayne old buddy!

Because your failure to respond lets the charges against you stand unopposed.

Because you cannot dispute them.

You KNOW Wayne.

Jimbo KNOWS, Wayne.

EVERYBODY KNOWS, WAYNE!

[halva]

(Looks at watch)

BC, do you have anything to say?

Would you like to say anything to IS about his refusal to support the motion I proposed?

Would you like to ask him to provide reasons for this refusal, related to the content of the motion?

[whitemajikman]

WMM, thanks for brainstorming.

Your Welcome......

Before you continue, I would suggest we define "crisis". Is there a crisis and if there is, of what does it consist?

Crisis

A series of events that may lead to our own destruction............

Presently the Crisis consist's of Limited Fossil fuel,Climate Change,over-population,religion,politics,propaganda,war,diseas e,mass extinction,non-abundant food supply,non-abundant fresh water,global monetary imbalances and of course ourselves.

Sidenote......(of course these are not all of the variables but a good start.)

Are we only concentrating on "climatic" and "environmental" aspects of the supposed "crisis?" Would not man's political/economic attitudes and secreted scientific experimentation with weaponry come into play in terms of "crisis?" Would the degradation of energy resources come into play here? Would humanity play a role in any of this? In using climate and environment you tend to miss the interferring player here..... us.

No Boomer We are Concentrating on all of the variables, Climatic and environmental aspects are only a couple of the variables which make up the big picture.

And Of Course Man IsThe Common Denominator.




Are we to define the crisis in only climatic and environmental terms and not other terms?

I think I have Already Answered This Question

Crisis:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=crisis


So, in your first sentence, your title, you may present questions that require answering and you may through your word usage, assume something of which others may not agree.


I Think I have Already Done That.



Actually, your sentence is poorly worded and uses improper grammar (above). Anthropormorphism and as well as your subject, "a combination," not matching your verb, "reinforcing", and generally a confusing sentence requires some more rewording and rewriting for clarity of meaning. "Disturbances" cannot reinforce and neither can "combinations" nor can they "cause." ....just a poor word combination. Do you really want to say that climatic disturbances and environmental disturbances reinforce (eachother) and cause deterioration of the world ecology? Does it work both ways? For example, does the deteriorating ecology, like dying coral reefs, in turn effect the climate? But what caused the coral reefs to die? Man alone? The water alone? The weather alone? In some cases there is a direct interaction, but in some, the interaction is more of a balance than it is a exacerbation of deterioration as in phytoplankton actually producing clouds to protect itself from UV. Remember that one?

There Is Not One Factor But Many Factors which lead me to my conclusion and you are correct in your observations.......

Is this solely the reason for ecological deterioration and you must define "ecological deterioration" as well. Is it really deteriorated and to what extent? What about man's contribution to polluting environments and man's usage of resources?

Again It Is All Relative...........

Whoa! Here you're presenting more problems and an expanded thesis. Is global warming a problem? Is mass extinction a reality? And is the world actually overpoopulated with what? Humans? You did not define your "overpopulation" as related to humans.

Again It Is All relative.........

Would it be possible to use the word "trends" without feeling like you're unoriginal? If planetary warming, mass extinction of animal and plant species and human overpopulation continue..... there will be serious consequences? What consequences? What kind? And if man is sustaining certain populations upon the planet, it must mean that man is thriving, but thriving at the expense of animals and plants? Is it true that "overpopulation" is a reality? There's debate about that, as well.

Of Course There is Debate ..........t

Solution?
To prevent this, immediate and effectively coordinated international cooperation between all countries is necessary.

I agree. Is this the only solution? International cooperation? Wouldn't there be many multi-pronged solutions to the stated problems? What about overpopulation? Business and economic trade and sharing? Technicological scientific cooperation? Educational systems within countries? Changes in lifestyles?

There are indeed many solutions .......But Are They Realistic At This Time......?

NOT AT ALL.



Cute! A bit of sarcasm there, heh? Remember, there are various levels of international cooperation at this time. Business levels, university and educational system levels, professional scientific levels, trading and business levels, and government levels along with other international consortiums and churches. You might include social and travel levels as well as tourism and hospitality levels. So while some levels may be slow, others may increase their evolution and development.

They May But odds are they won't.........

Because we are running out of time.........

WMM

[whitemajikman]

Daily news

Mankind threatened by loss of world's biodiversity
20 May 2005

If the current rate of ecosystem degradation and species extinction continues unchecked it will threaten the livelihoods and wellbeing of millions.

That is the conclusion of a new report by Millennium Ecosystem Assessment (MA), which is the collaborative work of more than 1,300 scientists from more than 90 countries worldwide.

It believes that a third of all amphibians, over a fifth of mammals and a quarter of the world's coniferous trees are currently at threat from becoming extinct.

It highlights the decline in global fish stocks by 90 per cent since the start of industrial fishing as just one example that the Earth's species are declining faster than ever.

"The new MA report underlines that rather than exercising the brake, the world continues to choose the accelerator putting us all on a collision course towards a grim destiny," commented the executive director of the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP), Klaus Topefer.

"If these wetlands, forests, rivers and coral reefs were factories, art galleries, universities and the like, it would be considered gross vandalism or arson to damage them in the way we do.

"Yet, our recklessness goes further than this. It is also economic suicide," he added.

The report says that changes in the world's biodiversity as a result of human activities have been more rapid in the past 50 years than at any time in human history.


WMM

[Boomer Chick]

I agree. Is this the only solution? International cooperation? Wouldn't there be many multi-pronged solutions to the stated problems? What about overpopulation? Business and economic trade and sharing? Technicological scientific cooperation? Educational systems within countries? Changes in lifestyles?

There are indeed many solutions .......But Are They Realistic At This Time......?

NOT AT ALL.

With all due respect, WMM, a "NOT AT ALL" does not suffice as an academically sound response. You ask if the adaptations and changes I suggest are realistic and then you answer your question with a three-word statement. This is thoughtful? You fail to support your position in a convincing way.

Why isn't business and economic trade and sharing realistic?

Why aren't techie trade and innovations helping in the transition?

Why can't education play a role in transition?

Why can't changes in lifestyles play a role in the transition?






Cute! A bit of sarcasm there, heh? Remember, there are various levels of international cooperation at this time. Business levels, university and educational system levels, professional scientific levels, trading and business levels, and government levels along with other international consortiums and churches. You might include social and travel levels as well as tourism and hospitality levels. So while some levels may be slow, others may increase their evolution and development.

They May But odds are they won't.........

Because we are running out of time.........

So basically you moan and bemoan a supposition that no matter what we do as humans we're out of time, out of adjustment time, and we're just all doomed to starve. Is that it?

The problem with your stance is this: you fail to prove it. With uncertainies of future possibilities all you or anyone can do to prove the doomed theory is to point to trends that support your timeline, if you will. You haven't even been able to use your own words in the negative trends you see. We all know that species are dying out (and some are coming back: wolves, eagles, falcons, etc.), that the human population grows, and that fossil fuels are finite............. but what we don't know are all the other factors.

Population factors:

birth control, women's rights, weather & climate affecting habitat, diseases, multi-national aide

Technology factors:

new alternative energies and products, new ways to clean up polluted areas, new ways to build homes, new ways to grow food, new ways to transport things, new medical discoveries, new chemistries

International Cooperation factors:

Communications, treaties and legislations, exchange programs, business programs, university programs, foreign exchange, international social alliances and committees

Lifestyle changes factors:

Consumer choices in transportation: carpooling, bike-riding and electric small vehicles instead of gas engine vehicles, living closer to work. Choosing alternative energies for the home (retrofitting), conservation within the home and workplace (ongoing--posted many examples on this), recycling, multi-tasking on driving trips, xeriscaping, buy products that in their production use less fossil fuels like organic foodstuffs, expand vegetarianism, eat less meat (meat uses more fuels and produces more waste than plants), take fewer airline vacations, grow your own vegetables, use modern technology to prevent bacteria and algae growth in swimming pools and hot tubs rather than chlorine, give to political and charitable organizations that promote sustainable and humane living, invest in alternative energy companies and water filtration companies.

Cosmic factors: Solar system energy realities, galactic energy realities, long term cycles related to both systems, interaction and interplay with alien beings and their technology...


For months I have been posting on the various businesses listed on just one alternative energy reporting and involved site. There are many. This proves both the technology progressing and the business environments progressing as well as the legislative changes at state and international levels regarding adaptation.

Here's a German organization active in Eurpean and international adapatations:
http://www.wbgu.de/wbgu_jg2003_engl.html

http://www.wbgu.de/wbgu_jg2000_engl.pdf

Here's an example of an international educational program to create change and adaptation:

http://www.worldaffairscouncils.org/WITFAQs.htm

Charles Ostman essay and site (quite objective, and implies a positive adaptation):
http://www.biota.org/ostman/arcosnt.htm

A 2001 OECD study regarding transition offers both pros and cons and ways to transition into the future. I find the positive sections quite informative and I suggest you at least skim these:
http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:C2ErLs60MgoJ:www.oecd.org/dataoecd/12/42/1903212.pdf+world+in+transition&hl=en&start=16

Interesting Canadian site on ICT (communications technologies) and how they impact the world in transition:

http://www.idrc.ca/en/ev-87108-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html

Very interesting demographic paper regarding future populations and their role in our transition:
http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/10096.html

Example of a curriculum college course related to leadership and awareness of international relations in regard to transition:
http://www3.open.ac.uk/employment/associate-lecturers/courses/U213.shtm
http://www.idrc.ca/en/ev-87108-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html

Book: German Advisory Council on Global Change:(sustainable living)

http://www.cplbookshop.com/contents/C1320.htm

Obviously the international world and many organizations in our country and yours have been aware of the transition to post-oil realities and are working toward the future. You may not think it's fast enough, but what do you REALLY know? Honestly, WHAT DO YOU KNOW for a FACT?

Peace.

[whitemajikman]

Obviously the international world and many organizations in our country and yours have been aware of the transition to post-oil realities and are working toward the future. You may not think it's fast enough, but what do you REALLY know? Honestly, WHAT DO YOU KNOW for a FACT?

ALRIGHT BOOMER.......

YOU WIN.......THE DEBATE.......

BUT Only Because YOU ARE NOT READY to understand what it is I am Saying........

I AM STILL RIGHT BECAUSE........

WHILE YOU HAVE BEEN BUSY FORECASTING A FUTURE OF GIDDY OPTIMISM ,GLOBAL CO-OPERATION AND EXCITING TECHNOLOGICAL BREAKTHROUGHS THAT MIGHT SAVE THE DAY ANOTHER 10 SPECIES HAVE DIED.............THATS A FACT.......YOU kNOW THAT WORD "REALITY"......IT'S ABOUT TO COME DOWN HARD ON YOU.........

You try and paint this rosy picture which is a product of your North American Upbringing So You Are An Optimist.........But Optimism is A State Of Mind......NOT A REALITY............

So Everything That You Have Posted on this Site is generated by YOUR OWN OPTIMISM and NOT BY REALITY...........

THIS IS REALITY........

70% of The World's Population Is Starving On A daily Basis While You YELL OUT TO THE FOUR CORNERS OF THE WORLD YOUR GIDDY OPTIMISM........

Countries That Used To Be Looked At As Fair And Lawful Are Now Becoming Nothing More Than Sectarian or Fascist In Nature.........AMERIKA IS THE FRONT RUNNER ..........

Global Propaganda And CONTROL HAS Become The Norm for The Elite........The Difference Today is that they no longer hide in the shadows......and Care Very Little about Scrutiny because they are untouchable.......ex. Bush,Cheney,Putin,Martin......Etc...Etc....

Global Climate Change Can Not Be Defeated.......For It Is A Natural Process Of The Earth's Evolution Patterns....Brought on by MANMADE Pollution....And Even Though YOU State That We Can Adapt..........A Billion Species Before YOU Have Failed........It is Important To Realize That When Climate And our Ecosystem Are Concerned ......Man Is NOT In CONTROL..........NATURE IS.........ThereFore Your Optimism Is Moot In The presence Of Nature.......

Fossil Fuel Is Finite......Which means That so Are All of those Products And Technologies that stem from it..........Which Translates into almost everything ..........including food,shelter,and heating.......At This Time NO TECHNOLOGY EXISTS TO REPLACE IT...... But Another Thought Is Once It's Gone.....The Population Will Not Be Able To Come Up With Alternatives because Cities Will Not Be Feasible Because Most Will Have To Spend all of their Free Time On Silly Little Things Like Surviving........

Global Monetary Collapse Is A Certainty......at this Time.......Especially When Governments Like the U.S. Have A Trillion Dollar Deficit and ARE BANKRUPT.......THE Government Knows This.....But The People Are Left In The Dark To Speculate.......

NOW BOOMER........

You Can Say That I Am Crystalballing.......but that would be Irresponsible on your part.......and not the Least Bit truthful.........For Everything I Have Brought Up Is Happening Now.........THAT IS REALITY........It IS YOUR OPTIMISM THAT IS UNREALISTIC..........

And i Haven't EVEN Started On All Of The Other Underlying Factors Like.......

Terrorism,Freemasonry,ZIONISM,Religion,Disease,WAR ........Etc....Etc.....

That Threaten Human Extinction.......

Your Vey Attitude Of Blind Optimism Ranks Right Up There With It Because You De-sensitize The Nature of All of These Problems......And Take an Approach That All Can Be Overcome....Which is FAITH NOT REALITY..........

The World Is Chaotic Not Uniform As You Like To Think Of It........

RIGHT NOW CHAOS REIGNS AND YOU HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO IT........THROUGH YOUR BLIND OPTIMISM...........

How Does It Feel ........?

WMM

[Boomer Chick]

Well, I am shocked. :shock: Not in anything you've said or pointed out as all you've uttered has been uttered before and years and years ago, but in your total disregard for the realities I pointed out, not the so-called optimism. The optimism you wish to prescribe as some kind of brainwashed attitude and group fantasy of a consumeristic lost tribe of gonad-addicted workaholics.... is merely the opposite side of the debate coin.

Can you relate to this writer?

http://www.geocities.com/kk_abacus/kka/end.html

Then, of course, the shock comes when after a mild attempt at supporting my points on that future symposium of nauseating projections..... you throw out all the babies, all the bathwater and insist on calling me a name and blaming me (all of the US of course) for consumerism in general and the amount of consumerism specifically represented by our nation which by nature reaped its capitalistic plunder and now waits empire falling, as all empires do. This is not to say humans themselves will expire and disappear, but the scaffolding of society on which they've scaled their journies for so long will have to implode and rebuild upon more firmer foundations. Again, this does not need to entail wholesale destruction of human beings themselves. But of course, we realize the path will not continue through the woods and a fork in the road approaches, of course we do and realized it way back in the sixties and seventies and it was Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II after Carter and Clinton that continued on full-speed ahead in the capitalistic/global thumbbing-nose to environmental needs and conservationism that has place on on the brink of what you feel.

Sorry, WMM, your emotionalism fails to intellectually cover the positive trends I've mentioned. You are accusing me of emotionalism that plainly you have adopted for your side of the argument. Please get ahold of yourself and return to the WMM I have known. No need to panic. Panic is what THEY want.

You accuse me of sheer optimism and faith and yet I've provided more facts and evidence as to positive adaptive trends than you've provided to support your gloom and doom side. What gives? In order for you to claim my sheer folly, you have to prove the organizations and trends I mentioned are totally ineffectual and devoid of any reality whatsoever. You haven't done that nor can you.

If you believe the politics of world and our nation at present surpass any other efforts of any other human beings, then I suppose that's what you believe. But you will have to PROVE that this politic will last, that it indeed will survive, and that it will supplant any other more positive trends. Frankly, I see our present American regime failing soon, being overtaken of other more economically powerful countries, and the positive adaptive businesses and organizations actually working more closely independent of this regime and in a matter of three years, actually working with a new one whether it be a combination government, a reactionary American government, or a United Nations interim government. These freaks will not continue.... don't worry, don't panic.

Beyond that, consumerism will be forced to change through many forecasted and presently appearing trends. Isn't that the way masses of people are convinced to change? By some kind of FORCE? Unfortunately it seems to be the case.

You can sit up there in Canada and smugly act as though you would have lived differently in the American Dream, but it was attractive to all peoples for many, many decades and it has now run it course... new more simple ways of living beckon us all and depression will hone the survival skills of innovation and adaptation.

The following rather interesting and objective encyclopedic rundown of just our conversation offers some food for thought.... if you're up to thinking, WMM.

Taken from:

http://www.answers.com/topic/human-extinction


Fear of human extinction is said to be one of the motivating factors of the environmentalist (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Environmentalism&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) movements of the 20th (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=20th+century&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) and 21st century (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=21st+century&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).

The minority view, in favour of human extinction takes two forms:

Deep ecologists (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Deep+ecology&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) like TVHEM (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Voluntary+Human+Extinction+Movement&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) say that humanity is inherently destructive to the global ecosystem (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Ecosystem&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), the needs of which should outweigh humanity's desire for "immortality".
Some pessimistic observers (such as Schopenhauer (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Arthur+Schopenhauer&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)) have written that destroying the entire biosphere (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=End+of+the+world+%28philosophy%29&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) is a price worth paying to erase human evil (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Evil&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).


Perception of human extinction risk

The general level of fear about human extinction (in the near term) is very low. It is not an outcome considered by many as a credible risk (excluding religious extinction). Suggested reasons for human extinction's low public visibility:

There have been countless prophesies of extinction throughout history; in most cases the predicted date of doom has passed without much notice, making future warnings less frightening. However, a survivor bias (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Survivorship+bias&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) would undercut the credibility of accurate extinction warnings. John von Neumann (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=John+von+Neumann&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) was probably wrong in having “a certainty�[1] (http://www.answers.com/topic/human-extinction#wp-endnote_Putnam) (#wp-endnote_Putnam) that nuclear war would occur; but our survival is not proof that the chance of a fatal nuclear exchange was below 90%.
To prevent public panics, official reports containing high casualty estimates are sometimes suppressed or changed (such as Admiral Rickover (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Hyman+G.+Rickover&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)'s critical report (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Three+Mile+Island&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) on nuclear industry safety).
Extinction scenarios (see below) are speculative, and hard to quantify. A frequentist (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Frequency+probability&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) approach to probability cannot be used to assess the danger of an event that has never been (and never will be) observed by humans.
Nick Bostrom (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Nick+Bostrom&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) suggests that extinction-analysis may be an overlooked field simply because it is too depressing a subject area to attract researchers.
There are thousands of public safety (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Public+Safety&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) jobs dedicated to analyzing and reducing the risks of individual death. There are no full-time existential safety commissioners partly because there is no way to tell if they are doing a good job, and no way to punish them for failure. The inability to judge performance might also explain the comparative governmental apathy on preventing human extinction (as compared to Panda (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Panda&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) extinction, say).

[Boomer Chick]

Some anthropologists (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Anthropology&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) believe that risk perception is biased by social structure; in the "Cultural Theory of risk (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Cultural+Theory+of+risk&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)" typography "Individualist (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Cultural+Theory+of+risk&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)" societies predispose members to the belief that nature operates as a self-correcting system, which will return to its stable state after a disturbance. People in such cultures feel comfortable with a "trial-and-error" approach to risk, even to unsuitably rare dangers (such as extinction events).
It is possible to do something about dietary or motor-vehicle health threats. Since it is much harder to know how existential threats should be minimized[2] (http://www.answers.com/topic/human-extinction#wp-endnote_Minimize) (#wp-endnote_Minimize), they tend to be ignored. High technology societies tend to become "Hierarchist (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Cultural+Theory+of+risk&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)" or "Fatalist (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Cultural+Theory+of+risk&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)" in their attitudes to the ever-multiplying risks threatening them. In either case, the average member of society adopts a passive attitude to risk minimization, culturally, and psychologically (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Psychology&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).
The bias in popular culture is to relate extinction scenario stories with non-extinction outcomes. (None of the 16 'most notable' WW3 scenarios in film (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=World+War+III&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) are resolved by human extinction, for example.[3] (http://www.answers.com/topic/human-extinction#wp-endnote_JournalOfReligionAndFilm) (#wp-endnote_JournalOfReligionAndFilm))
The threat of nuclear annihilation actually was a daily concern in the lives of many people in the 1960s (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=1960s&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) and 1970s (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=1970s&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b). Since then the principal fear has been of localized terrorist (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Terrorism&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) attack, rather than a global war of extinction; contemplating human extinction may be out of fashion.
Some people have philosophical reasons for doubting the possibility of human extinction, for instance the Final anthropic principle (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Final+anthropic+principle&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), plenitude principle (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Plenitude+principle&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) or Intrinsic finality (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Intrinsic+finality&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).
Notice the numbers changed, but the topic (above) is the same.

<LI>

[Boomer Chick]

<LI>

Tversky (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Amos+Tversky&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) and Kahneman (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Daniel+Kahneman&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) have produced evidence (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Experimental+economics&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) that humans suffer cognitive biases (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Cognitive+bias&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) which would tend to minimize the perception of this unprecented event:
Denial is a negative "availability heuristic (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Availability+heuristic&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)" shown to occur when an outcome is so upsetting that the very act of thinking about it leads to an increased refusal to believe it might occur. In this case, imagining (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Imagination&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) human extinction probably makes it seem less likely.
In cultures where human extinction is not expected the proposition must overcome the "Disconfirmation bias (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Disconfirmation+bias&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)" against heterodox theories.
Another reliable psychological (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Psychology&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) effect relevant here is the "Positive outcome bias (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Valence+effect&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)".
Behavioural finance (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Behavioral+finance&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) has strong evidence that recent (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Recency+effect&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) evidence is given undue significance in risk analysis (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Risk+analysis&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b). Roughly speaking, "100 year storms" tend to occur every twenty years in the stock market (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Stock+market&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) as traders become convinced that the current good times will last forever (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Dot-com&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b). Doomsayers who hypothesize rare crisis-scenarios (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Black+Thursday&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) are dismissed even when they have statistical evidence behind them. An extreme form of this bias can diminish the subjective probability (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Bayesian+probability&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) of the unprecedented[4] (http://www.answers.com/topic/human-extinction#wp-endnote_unprecedented) (#wp-endnote_unprecedented).
Again, the numbers did not translate, but you can tie in the meanings. And don't go trying to label me with some psycho-label in order to explain why I don't agree that humanity is headed for extinction along with the rest of the world. Hey, well, you can think anything you want, but the subject at hand is the argument itself and the proof and evidence of the two-sided coin of humanity's progress or end.

[Boomer Chick]

More...... my panicky northern friend. Just imagine my arms around your shoulders in a hug. There's no reason to get huffy and puffy, now is there?



In general, humanity's sense of self preservation (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Self+preservation&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), and intelligence (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Intelligence&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) are considered to offer safe-guards against extinction. It is felt that people will find creative (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Creative&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) ways to overcome potential threats, and will take care of the precautionary principle (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Precautionary+principle&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) in attempting dangerous innovations (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Innovation&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b). The arguments against this are; firstly, that the management of destructive technology is becoming difficult, and secondly, that the precautionary principle is often abandoned whenever the reward appears to outweigh the risk. Two examples where the principle has been overruled are:


Some Anti-GM food (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Genetically+modified+food&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) campaigners are very concerned by "Frankenstein (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Frankenstein&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) genes", which cross the species barrier and raise the spectre of a 'superbug' doomsday. They invoke the precautionary principle against the use of this technology, but its benefits are considered to be so significant that trials and distribution are permitted in many parts of the world.
Before the Trinity (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Trinity+test&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) test, one of the project's scientists proposed that the fission (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Fission&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) explosion might destroy New Mexico and possibly the world. Although such possibilities were considered remote, the precautionary principle would have called for further research before the detonation went ahead. The military's decision was that the advantages of a proven bomb (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Bomb&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) were more significant than the risk[5] (http://www.answers.com/topic/human-extinction#wp-endnote_groves) (#wp-endnote_groves).

[Boomer Chick]

Now here's the part you'll like:



Observations in support of eventual human extinction

As about 99.9% of species that have ever existed on Earth have become extinct it is often suggested that all species have a finite lifespan. If this were the case human extinction would be inevitable. Humans are unique in their adaptive and technological (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Technology&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) capabilities, so it is not possible to draw reliable inferences about the probability of human extinction based on the past extinctions of other species (this fact is also used as an argument that extinctions in humans may occur faster than in other successful species).

Another unique characteristic of the human animal is its religious belief (see "Attitudes to human extinction", above). Some commentators (such as John F. Schumaker) claim that paranormal beliefs are the "excess evolutionary baggage" underlying the "seemingly suicidal qualities that are features of the human animal". Other socioecological observers maintain that hunter-gatherer (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Hunter-gatherer&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) evolution has simply produced a mind biased against considering the common good of more than a hundred people; this was Albert Einstein (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Albert+Einstein&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)'s belief, and he concluded:

"We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive." Humans are very similar to other primates (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Primate&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) in their genetic propensity towards intra-species violence (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Violence&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b); Jared Diamond (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Jared+Diamond&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)'s The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee estimates that 64% of hunter-gather societies engage in warfare every two years. Although it has been argued (e.g. in the UNESCO (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=United+Nations+Educational%2C+Scientific+and +Cultural+Organization&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) Seville Statement) that warfare is a cultural artifact, many anthropologists (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Anthropology&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) dispute this, noting that small human tribes exhibit similar patterns of violence to chimpanzee (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Chimpanzee&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) groups, the most murderous of the primates, and our nearest genetic (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Genetics&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) relatives. The 'higher (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Neopallium&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)' functions of reason and speech may be more evolved in the brain of homo sapien (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Human&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) than his cousins, but the relative size of the limbic system (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Limbic+system&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) is a constant in apes (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Ape&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), monkeys (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Monkey&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) and humans (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Human&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b); as human rational (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Rational&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) faculties have expanded, so has the wetware (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Wetware&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) of emotion (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Emotion&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b). The combination of inventiveness and urge to violence in the human animal (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Animal&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) has been cited (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Cite+sources&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) as evidence against its long term[6] (http://www.answers.com/topic/human-extinction#wp-endnote_HumanSelfDestructionCitation) (#wp-endnote_HumanSelfDestructionCitation).

[Boomer Chick]

Well, whattaknow? Here's your theory right here in writing! Like we didn't know it existed.


History is replete with cases of over-exploitation of publicly available resources ("Tragedy of the commons (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Tragedy+of+the+commons&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)"). If humanity's survival relies upon self-restraint, few examples are available. (See also: "Spaceship Earth (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Spaceship+Earth&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)".)
Another concern is extreme climate change (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Climate+change&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), especially as a result of human activity. For example, pollution (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Pollution&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) of the environment (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Environment&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) causes damage to ecosystems (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Ecosystem&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b). If severely damaged the global ecosystem could collapse, leading to an extinction event (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Extinction+event&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) which could include humanity. A phenomenon of this nature is already believed to be underway, with the widespread, ongoing extinction of species during the modern Holocene epoch (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Holocene&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), which may have some causal (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Causality&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) association with human activity (see Holocene extinction event (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Holocene+extinction+event&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)).

Some terrorist (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Terrorism&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) cults (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Cult&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), such as Chizuo Matsumoto (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Shoko+Asahara&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)'s Aum Supreme Truth (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Aum+Shinrikyo&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) had a specific agenda[7] (http://www.answers.com/topic/human-extinction#wp-endnote_PlanForDestruction) (#wp-endnote_PlanForDestruction) of intentionally bringing about Armageddon (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Armageddon&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), such as through bioterrorism (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Bioterrorism&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).

The Doomsday argument (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Doomsday+argument&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) cites the relatively brief lifespan of the species as probabilistic evidence (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Probabilistic+argument&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) for its relatively imminent extinction.

[Boomer Chick]

Human extinction scenarios

Various scenarios for the extinction of the human species have originated from science (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Science&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), popular culture (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Popular+culture&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), science fiction (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Science+fiction&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), and religion (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Religion&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) (see apocalypse (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Apocalypse&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) and eschatology (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Eschatology&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)).


Severe forms of known or recorded disasters

Warfare, whether nuclear (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Nuclear+warfare&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) or biological (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Biological+warfare&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b); see World War III (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=World+War+III&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).
Universal pandemic (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Pandemic&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) involving a genetic (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Gene&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) disease, virus (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Virus&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), prion (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Prion&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), or antibiotic (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Antibiotic&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)-resistant bacterium (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Bacterium&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).
Famine (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Famine&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) resulting from overpopulation (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Overpopulation&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) (see Malthusian catastrophe (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Malthusian+catastrophe&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b))



Environmental collapses

Catastrophic climate change (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Climate+change&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) as a result of global warming (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Global+warming&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) or the effects of extensive deforestation (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Deforestation&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) or pollution (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Pollution&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).
Loss of a breathable atmosphere (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Atmosphere&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) or destruction of the ozone layer (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Ozone+layer&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).
Occurrence of a supervolcano (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Supervolcano&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).
Extreme ice age (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Ice+age&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) leading to Iceball Earth (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Snowball+Earth&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)



Long term habitat threats

In 1.4 million years Gliese 710 (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Gliese+710&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) will be only 1.1 Light years (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Light+year&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) from Earth, and might (but probably won't) catastrophically perturb the Oort cloud (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Oort+cloud&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)
In about 3 billion years, the Andromeda Galaxy (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Andromeda+Galaxy&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) is expected to collide with our Milky Way galaxy (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Milky+Way&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).
In 5 billion years the Sun (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Sun&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)'s stellar evolution (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Stellar+evolution&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) will reach the red giant (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Red+giant&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) stage, in which it will expand to engulf the Earth. Before this date, its radiated spectrum may alter in ways Earth-bound humans could not survive.
In the very long term the ultimate threat to humanity may be entropy (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Entropy&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), with the postulated heat death of the universe (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Heat+death+of+the+universe&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) predicted by the second law of thermodynamics (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Second+law+of+thermodynamics&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), or other endings caused by physical constraints (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Ultimate+fate+of+the+universe&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).

[Boomer Chick]

Hey, take your pick!!!! Continued forms of extinction scenarios:


Evolution (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Evolution&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) of humanity into a posthuman (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Posthuman&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) life-form or existence (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Existence&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) by means of technology (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Technology&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), leaving no trace of original humans

Commentators such as Hans Moravec (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Hans+Moravec&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) argue that humanity will eventually be supplanted and replaced by artificial intelligence (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Artificial+intelligence&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) or other forms of artificial life (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Artificial+life&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b); while others have argued that humanity will inevitably experience a technological singularity (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Technological+singularity&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), and furthermore that this outcome is desirable (see singularitarianism (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Singularitarianism&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)).
transhumanist (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Transhumanism&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) genetic engineering (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Genetic+engineering&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) could lead to a species unable to inter-procreate, accidentally resulting in actual (rather than pseudo (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Pseudoextinction&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)) extinction[9] (http://www.answers.com/topic/human-extinction#wp-endnote_) (#wp-endnote_).



Extinction in a whimper (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Population+decline&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)

Preference for fewer children; if developed world (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Developed+country&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) demographics (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Demographics&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) are extrapolated they mathematically lead to 'soft' extinction before 3000 (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=30th+century&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) AD. (John Leslie estimates that if the reproduction rate drops to the German (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Germany&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) level the extinction date will be 2400 (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=24th+century&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)[10] (http://www.answers.com/topic/human-extinction#wp-endnote_2400) (#wp-endnote_2400)).
Political intervention in reproduction has failed to raise the birth rate above the replacement level (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Demographics+of+Russia&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) in the rich world, but has dramatically succeeded in lowering it below the replacement level in China (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=China&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) (see One child policy (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=One-child+policy&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)). A World government (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=World+government&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) with a eugenic (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Eugenics&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) or small population policy could send humanity into 'voluntary' extinction.
Infertility (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Infertility&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b): Caused by hormonal (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Hormone&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) disruption from the chemical/pharmaceutical (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Pharmacology&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) industries, or biological (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Biology&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) changes, such as the (controversial (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Controversy&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)) findings of falling sperm cell (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Sperm&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) count in human males.
A disruption, chemical, biological, or otherwise, in humans' ability to reproduce properly or at all



Genetic or evolutionary regression or deterioration such as proposed by the idea of dysgenics (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Dysgenics&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)


Scientific accidents

In his book Our Final Hour (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Our+Final+Hour&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), Sir Martin Rees (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Martin+Rees&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) claims that without the appropriate regulation, scientific advancement increases the risk of human extinction as a result of the effects or use of new technology. Some examples are provided below.
Uncontrolled grey goo (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Grey+goo&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) incidents resulting in ecophagy (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Ecophagy&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).
Creation of a naked singularity (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Naked+singularity&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) on Earth during the course of a scientific experiment, or other foreseeable scientific accidents in high-energy physics (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Particle+physics&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) research, such as vacuum phase transition (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Vacuum+energy&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) or stranglet (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Strange+matter&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) incidents.
Biotech disaster (E.g. the warnings of Jeremy Rifkin (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Jeremy+Rifkin&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b))

[Boomer Chick]

Scenarios of extra-terrestial origin

Major impact events (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Impact+event&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).
Gamma-ray burst (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Gamma+ray+burst&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) in our part (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Gamma+ray+burst&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) of the Milky Way (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Milky+Way&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) (Bursts observable in other galaxies are calculated to act as a "sterilizer", and have been used by some astronomers (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Astronomer&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) to explain the Fermi paradox (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Fermi+paradox&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)). The lack of fossil record interruptions, and relative distance of the nearest Hypernova (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Hypernova&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) candidate make this a long term (rather than imminent) threat.
Invasion (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Invasion&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) by militarily superior aliens (see alien invasion (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Alien+invasion&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)) — often considered to be a scenario purely from the realms of science fiction (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Science+fiction&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), professional cosmologists (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Cosmology&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) have given serious consideration to this possibility, but conclude that it is unlikely. [11] (http://www.answers.com/topic/human-extinction#wp-endnote_AlienConquestUnlikely) (#wp-endnote_AlienConquestUnlikely)
Gerard O'Neill (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Gerard+O%27Neill&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) has cautioned that first contact (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=First+contact+%28anthropology%29&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) with alien intelligence may follow the precedent set by historical examples of contact between human civilizations, where the less technologically-advanced civilization has inevitably succumbed to the other civilization, regardless of its intentions (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Outside+Context+Problem&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b).
Solar flares (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Solar+flare&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) may suddenly heat the earth, or the light from the sun may be blocked by dust, slowly freezing it (eg. the dust and vapour may come from a Kuiper belt (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Kuiper+belt&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) disturbance).



Other scenarios

Intervention by a God (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=God&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b) or gods (religious, not scientific).
Humanity resides in a computer simulation (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Computer+simulation&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b), which could be rebooted at any time (see Nick Bostrom (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Nick+Bostrom&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)'s Simulation Argument (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Simulated+reality&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b)).

Well, you get the picture and so do I !!! We're having a discussion and at any moment an extinction event could happen.

I think enough links and evidence that the doom and gloom notion of our extinction is an argument, but the more positive side also holds power in that argument and more humans hold to the positive than hold to the negative. And in that holding, in that vision within our minds and hearts, more power is produced for the scenario invisioned than for the minority scenario you invision. IF dreams and thoughts are things and hold potential, than surely holding a positive thought for our adaptation and survival, as well as our potentials for problem solving will work better for our species than if we all agree and BELIEVE that we are doomed. BELIEF itself may hold power we are just beginning to understand.

[Boomer Chick]

Very fascinating rebuttle to the extinction argument:

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?tname=self-referencing-doomsday-argument-rebuttal&curtab=2222_1&hl=human&hl=extinction&sbid=lc01b

[halva]

ALRIGHT BOOMER.......

YOU WIN.......THE DEBATE.......

BUT Only Because YOU ARE NOT READY to understand what it is I am Saying........

I AM STILL RIGHT BECAUSE........

WHILE YOU HAVE BEEN BUSY FORECASTING A FUTURE OF GIDDY OPTIMISM ,GLOBAL CO-OPERATION AND EXCITING TECHNOLOGICAL BREAKTHROUGHS THAT MIGHT SAVE THE DAY ANOTHER 10 SPECIES HAVE DIED.............THATS A FACT.......YOU kNOW THAT WORD "REALITY"......IT'S ABOUT TO COME DOWN HARD ON YOU.........

You try and paint this rosy picture which is a product of your North American Upbringing So You Are An Optimist.........But Optimism is A State Of Mind......NOT A REALITY............


WMM, BC's deepest desire is for you to make friends again with Reynolds.

Then we will all be ONE BIG HAPPY FAMILY.

[jayreynolds]

Hey, whitey, you're Crystal Balling...............

[Boomer Chick]

What is with these numbers? I can't get rid of them and they keep numerologizing ...... don't blame me!
Whitey, as Jay says, you're Crystal Balling! Now either your balls are crystal or you're projecting into the future like so many scientists do and rarely are any of them confirmed right because if they were confirmed absolutely right, they would have to be wrong.... a paradox!
Halva, you're so focused on the social aspects, I wish you would just come here and start a brother/sister rental service! Hehehe! Yes, rent a brother or sister for as long as you want and voila! a new family member instantly --complete with nagging and wagging of fingers, and reminding and gossiping! How perfect!
Jay, give up everything and hide in a cave, the end is near!

http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=18mbe0ec9msii?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Extinction+event&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01b
What's with these numbers?
Present day — the Holocene extinction event (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Holocene+extinction+event&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1). Most biologists believe that humans are currently causing another extinction event. E.O. Wilson of Harvard University, in his book The Future of Life, estimates that at current rates of human destruction of the biosphere one-half of all species of life will be extinct in 100 years. A survey by the American Museum of Natural History in 1998 found that the vast majority of biologists agreed with Wilson's assessment, and numerous confirmatory studies in the years since then – led by the IUCN (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=World+Conservation+Union&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1)'s annual "Red List (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=IUCN+Red+List&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1)" of threatened species – have now produced a scientific consensus on the subject.[2] (http://www.well.com/user/davidu/extinction.html) (http://www.well.com/user/davidu/extinction.html)
Extinction event refers to extinction of species, not all life. Although many life forms may become extinct, the usual connotation is that the "event" is at most a transition in dominant life forms. For example, the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event promoted the domination of spores and swamp life for a period almost directly after the event. A complete extinction of all known life forms may be possible, but no such event has ever been discovered.

The Big Five are the Ordovician-Silurian extinction events (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Ordovician-Silurian+extinction+events&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1), the Late Devonian extinction (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Late+Devonian+extinction&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1), the Permian-Triassic extinction event (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Permian-Triassic+extinction+event&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1), the Triassic-Jurassic extinction event (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Triassic-Jurassic+extinction+event&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1) and the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Cretaceous-Tertiary+extinction+event&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1).

[Boomer Chick]

Red List (animal) for all countries:

http://www.iucnredlist.org/info/tables/table6a.html

Red List (plants) for all countries:

http://www.iucnredlist.org/info/tables/table6b.html

Various tables and data on globally threatened species:

http://www.iucnredlist.org/info/tables.html

***

Yes, man's encrouchment upon nature has narrowed the species biodiversity. We're all aware of this fact. After perusing the tables I noticed plants far exceed the animal populations threatened and extinct listings. What does this say about it's main life processes? Wouldn't the sun, the soil, and the water have something to do with this and wouldn't man's deeming some plants "weeds" be part of it, too? Since extinction events happened due to climate changes from natural causes in the past, I have to include such natural causes in the present (regarding plants especially) as well as the presence of the species called homosapien.

[Boomer Chick]

Alliance to Save Energy, American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy, American Public Power Association, American Solar Energy Society, American Wind Energy Association, Center for American Progress, Center for Resource Solutions, Clean Air-Cool Planet, Clean Energy Group, Clean Fuels Development Coalition, Community Environmental Council, Electric Power Research Institute, Environmental Law & Policy Center, Geothermal Energy Association, Global Energy Network Institute, Interstate Renewable Energy Council, National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners, National Hydropower Association, National Rural Electric Co-op Association, Natural Resource Defense Council, New Uses Council/Biomass Coordinating Council, Rockefeller Brothers Fund, Solar Electric Power Association, Solar Electric Industries Association, Texas Renewable Energy Industries Association, The Coalition on the Environment and Jewish Life of Southern California, The Interfaith Environmental Council, U.S. Conference of Mayors, Union of Concerned Scientists, World Resource Institute, and Worldwatch Institute

The previous lists partcipate in


The National Policy Conference

"Renewable Energy in America:
The Policies for Phase II"
October 17-18, 2005
Washington, D.C.

ACORE, in conjunction with the Renewable Energy Caucuses of the U.S. Senate and U.S. House of Representatives, in cooperation with the Energy and Environmental Study Institute, and with the support of 25 supporting organizations, presents a national policy conference to define the policy framework for the next 30 years for the adoption of renewable energy in America.


EnergySupply
National Security
Environment and Human Health
Climate Change
Jobs and Economic Growth Windpower
Solar Energy
Hydropower and Ocean Energy
Geothermal Energy
Biomass and Biofuels This two-day forum will be held in the Caucus Room in the Cannon Office Building of the US House of Representatives, with breakout sessions at the Capitol Hill Club. Maximum capacity is 400, so please register today to reserve your place!

[Boomer Chick]

http://www.physorg.com/news6529.html

Thousands of satellite (http://www.physorg.com/news6529.html#) images show Alaskan tundra becoming greener, while also indicating that forests stretching from Alaska's interior into northeast Canada are becoming less green, the Anchorage (Alaska) Daily News reported Thursday.

"Everyone (assumed) these forests were (also) going to continue to green, and it turns out that there may be other factors that are causing unexpected results," Scott Goetz, a senior scientist at Woods Hole Research Center in Massachusetts and one of four scientists analyzing the satellite data told the newspaper.

Alaskan snow researcher Matthew Sturm said some scientists theorize tundra bushes that grow above the snow make the surface darker, accelerating heating by up to 70 percent and, therefore, increasing tundra greening,

Fairbanks ecologist Glenn Juday said the forests are becoming less green because the trees are rapidly drying in the increasing warmth.

The study appears online in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Copyright 2005 by United Press International

[Boomer Chick]

http://www.physorg.com/news6527.html

Sept. 15, 2005

CloudSat and CALIPSO will provide a new, 3-D perspective on Earth's clouds and airborne particles called aerosols. The satellites will answer questions about how clouds and aerosols form, evolve and affect water supply, climate, weather and air quality.

CloudSat and CALIPSO employ revolutionary tools that will probe Earth's atmosphere. Each spacecraft carries an "active" instrument that transmits pulses of energy and measures the portion of the pulses scattered back to the instrument.

CloudSat's cloud-profiling radar is more than 1,000 times more sensitive than typical weather radar. It can detect clouds and distinguish between cloud particles and precipitation. "The new information from CloudSat will answer basic questions about how rain and snow are produced by clouds, how rain and snow are distributed worldwide and how clouds affect the Earth's climate," said Dr. Graeme Stephens, CloudSat principal investigator at Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colo.

CALIPSO's polarization lidar instrument can detect aerosol particles and can distinguish between aerosol and cloud particles. "With the high resolution observation that CALIPSO will provide, we will get a better understanding of aerosol transport and how our climate system works," said Dr. David Winker, CALIPSO principal investigator at NASA's Langley Research Center, Hampton, Va.

The satellites will be launched into a 438-mile circular, sun-synchronous polar orbit, where they will fly in formation just 15 seconds apart as members of NASA's "A-Train" constellation with three other Earth Observing System satellites. The A-Train includes NASA's Aqua and Aura satellites and France's PARASOL satellite (http://www.physorg.com/news6527.html#).

The usefulness of data from CloudSat, CALIPSO and the other A-Train satellites will be much greater when combined. The combined set of measurements will provide new insight into the global distribution and evolution of clouds that will lead to improvements in weather forecasting and climate prediction.

CloudSat is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), Pasadena, Calif. The radar instrument was developed at JPL, with hardware contributions from the Canadian Space Agency. Colorado State University provides scientific leadership and science data processing and distribution.

Other contributions include resources from the U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Department of Energy. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp. designed and built the spacecraft. A host of U.S. and international universities and research centers provides support to the science team. Some of these activities are contributed as partnerships with the project.

CALIPSO was developed through collaboration between NASA and the French Space Agency, Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales (CNES). NASA's Langley Research Center leads the CALIPSO mission and provides science team leadership, systems engineering, payload mission operations, and validation, processing and archiving of data. Langley also developed the lidar instrument in collaboration with the Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., which developed the onboard visible camera (http://www.physorg.com/news6527.html#).

For more information on CloudSat and CALIPSO on the Internet (http://www.physorg.com/news6527.html#), please visit:
http://www.nasa.gov/cloudsat (http://www.nasa.gov/cloudsat) and http://www.nasa.gov/calipso (http://www.nasa.gov/calipso)

[jayreynolds]

Jay, give up everything and hide in a cave, the end is near!


No need for reruns, I've seen that gambit played before:
I know- DOOM KILLS!
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/21PbAr/Ec/Doom.htm

[Boomer Chick]

No need for reruns, I've seen that gambit played before:
I know- DOOM KILLS!
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/21PbAr/Ec/Doom.htm

Hi Jay! As I read everything skeptically, this was a good one, but I would rather see a wind farm than whine about it at the end of a doomsday article criticizing the foiled predictions of historic doomsayers. Absolute certainly on any end of any spectrum isn't wise.

Peace!

[halva]

Halva, you're so focused on the social aspects.

What I am focused on is efficacy, the first prerequisite for which is removing Reynolds and his ilk from the debate. That cannot be done at this forum, particularly with you here, but it can be done in real life, if that is an aspect of things that interests you.

.

[Boomer Chick]

http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/earth_sciences/report-49247.html

Killer methane burps caused massive global warming



Sept. 15, 2005


Researchers have uncovered new evidence of a sudden, fatal dose of global warming 180 million years ago during the time of the dinosaurs. The scientists’ findings, published in Nature, 14 September, could provide vital clues about the climate change we are experiencing today.

PhD student Dave Kemp, funded by the Natural Environment Research Council, and supervisors Drs. Angela Coe and Anthony Cohen from the Open University Department of Earth Sciences, along with Dr. Lorenz Schwark of the University of Cologne, discovered evidence suggesting that vast amounts of methane gas were released to the atmosphere in three massive ‘methane burps’ or pulses. The addition of methane, a greenhouse gas, to the atmosphere had a severe impact on the environment, warming Earth about 10°C, and resulting in the extinction of a large number of species on land and in the oceans.

Dr Angela Coe says: “We’ve known about this event for a few years through earlier work by our team and others, but there’s been a great deal of uncertainty about its precise size, duration, and underlying cause. What our present study shows is that this methane release was not just one event, but 3 consecutive pulses that occurred within a 60,000 year interval. Importantly, our data demonstrate that each individual pulse was very rapid. Also, whilst the methane release was very quick, we’ve found that the recovery took much longer, occurring over a few hundred thousand years.�

The methane came from gas hydrate, a frozen mixture of water and methane found in huge quantities on the seabed. This hydrate suddenly melted, allowing the methane to escape. The OU researchers based their findings on geochemical analyses of mudrocks that are preserved along the Yorkshire coast near Whitby, UK, and date from the Jurassic Period of geological time.

Dave Kemp says: “The methane was released because slight wobbles in the Earth’s orbit periodically bring our planet closer to the Sun, warming the oceans sufficiently to melt the vast reserves of hydrate. We believe that this effect was compounded by volcanic emissions of other greenhouse gases. After the methane was released into the atmosphere from the seabed it reacted rapidly with oxygen to form carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is also a powerful greenhouse gas that persists in the atmosphere for many hundreds of years, and it was this gas which caused such a massive global warming effect�.

Dr Anthony Cohen adds: “One of the most important aspects of the study is that it provides an accurate timescale for how the Earth, and life, reacted to a sudden increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide. Today we are releasing large amounts of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, primarily through the burning of fossil fuels. It is possible that the rate at which carbon dioxide is being added to the atmosphere now actually outstrips the rate at which it was added 180 million years ago. Given that the effects were so devastating then, it is extremely important to understand the details of past events in order to better comprehend present-day climate change. With this information, we are better informed about what action needs to be taken to mitigate or avoid some of the potential detrimental future effects.





More information:www.nerc.ac.uk (http://www.nerc.ac.uk)



Halva, without Reynolds on this forum, there is no debate. If people disagree or interpret information to varying degrees, then express that..... it is called freedom and sometimes called debate. As I pointed out to FS, she took things too personally and she learned that you can't make a single statement here as though it is fact... when it's not fact. It doesn't mean I'm not on her "side". As I said, I've always been a free agent and if I agree with Reynolds I will agree and if I disagree with him, I will disagree and the same goes for every member of this forum. Now get some perspective on the reality of intellectual exchange and calm down. Reynolds was NEVER your personal enemy nor someone to demonize as you realize the American/British governments have done for so many years with "enemies."

If you believe that peace on earth should reign, that understanding and tolerance should be practiced, that everyone has the right to express their views no matter whether they agree or disagree with anyone else's ........... then you will simply express your views on the subjects at hand and lay off the constant social observation and irritating commentary. I don't purposefully ignore you. If I don't answer it's because I haven't visited and didn't read your question. Do you have my e-mail? Do you know how to use private messaging here? If you cared so much you could have gotten ahold of me. It's not necessary to function on this board as if we're on wrestling tag teams, Halva.

Each of us holds our separate and unique views some of which diverge and some of which intersect with others on the board. Allowing that reality to just "be" is part of adult maturity and a form of philosophical freedom called "detachment." Allowing others to be precisely "where they are" regardless of where you are qualifies as a mature trait. If you care to comment, at least have a reason based in mutual growth and realization before you take up board space. And if I give someone space and choose not to comment, that is my freedom and choice and nobody else's business. Please be at peace.

BC

[jayreynolds]

What I am focused on is efficacy, the first prerequisite for which is removing Reynolds and his ilk from the debate. That cannot be done at this forum, particularly with you here, but it can be done in real life, if that is an aspect of things that interests you.


Wayne, you have no idea about the real world, do you?
Nobody removes anybody from anything they don't want to be removed from.
The world is my oyster and I'm free to slurp at it whenever, wherever.

To even think you can silence me is a real joke, Wayne, a joke on you. How many more years can I keep you trussed up and hog-tied, spinning your wheels?
Forever?
Maybe.

Sure you can run around and hide in dark corners, find hidey-holes where you can pretend to "create reality", but what use is that?

Out here in th real world, here I am, and millions of others like me, just waiting for you to stick your pointy little head up, ready to get shot down.

Keep it up, Wayne, and I'll have you insane, eventually.
You're half-way there already!
Wayne the insane, has a sort of ring to it, eh?

Get it?
Get real, Wayne.
Get over it.
Get out of it.

[halva]

Raynolds, you and I are going to be here until one of us dies.

And you will die first.

[jayreynolds]

Raynolds, you and I are going to be here until one of us dies.

And you will die first.

You said that almost two years ago, Wayne. In that time your people have abandoned you, only to be replaced by the jester Whitey-boy, and the nutcase Jimbo.

Some mob, old bean.

[whitemajikman]

You said that almost two years ago, Wayne. In that time your people have abandoned you, only to be replaced by the jester Whitey-boy, and the nutcase Jimbo.

Some mob, old bean.

Jay If that Was The TRUTH..........WHICH IT ISN'T.......

You Would Have Left a Long Time ago.......Instead Of Continually coming back ........

What You Have To Decide Is What REALLY keeps You Here......TRUTHFULLY........

What You Will Find Is That Through Your Choice and Actions......That You Are The BIGGEST CHEMMIE of Them All........A Skeptical CHEMMIE but A CHEMMIE ALL THE SAME........It is through your Skepticism that More and More people everyday learn about the growing problem of Contrails and Chemtrails..........and their part in Illegal geo-engineering programs that you are Skeptical about.......

Jay I Told You This Was The Year............

And It shall be........

There are Various elements at work that will make this happen that you are not aware of.......because your main focus is this forum.........

And calling me names is quite alright.......

We All Know your the biggest Troll on this forum.......

And thats How you get your Cheap Kicks...........


I have a suggestion why not try your Skeptical bullshit on the main forum........and see where it gets you.........

WMM

[halva]

Jay If that Was The TRUTH..........WHICH IT ISN'T.......

You Would Have Left a Long Time ago.......Instead Of Continually coming back ........

What You Have To Decide Is What REALLY keeps You Here......TRUTHFULLY........


I suspect it's a bit like with the story about the funeral of the film mogul Louis B. Mayer. Thousands of people came to his funeral. When they asked one of them why he had come the guy replied: 'I guess like most people here, I came to make sure he was really dead.'

[Boomer Chick]

Global Warming: The Signs, The Science (http://www.evworld.com/general.cfm?section=communique&page=criticallink&urllink=1815)
EV World - Papillion,Nebraska,USA
Trailer for upcoming PBS documentary on global warming, sponsored in part by Toyota. (Windows Media Video). IMPORTANT NOTICE: This ...


That methane article should have caught your eyes, people!


Dave Kemp says: “The methane was released because slight wobbles in the Earth’s orbit periodically bring our planet closer to the Sun, warming the oceans sufficiently to melt the vast reserves of hydrate. We believe that this effect was compounded by volcanic emissions of other greenhouse gases. After the methane was released into the atmosphere from the seabed it reacted rapidly with oxygen to form carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is also a powerful greenhouse gas that persists in the atmosphere for many hundreds of years, and it was this gas which caused such a massive global warming effect�.

Dr Anthony Cohen adds: “One of the most important aspects of the study is that it provides an accurate timescale for how the Earth, and life, reacted to a sudden increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide. Today we are releasing large amounts of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, primarily through the burning of fossil fuels. It is possible that the rate at which carbon dioxide is being added to the atmosphere now actually outstrips the rate at which it was added 180 million years ago. Given that the effects were so devastating then, it is extremely important to understand the details of past events in order to better comprehend present-day climate change. With this information, we are better informed about what action needs to be taken to mitigate or avoid some of the potential detrimental future effects.

[jayreynolds]

It is through your Skepticism that More and More people everyday learn about the growing problem of Contrails and Chemtrails..........and their part in Illegal geo-engineering programs that you are Skeptical about.......WMM

Sorry, whitey. If this were true, I'd still be posting at the chemmie-only boards and Carnicom and the rest would be palsy-walsy. I know that what I've done has been one of the biggest blows to chemmiedom, and am proud of it.

BTW, dude, where is all that proof you promised your fellow chemmies?
That sort of non-performance, a trait shared by all chemmies, is probably the second biggest factor in the failure of the "chemtrails" hoax, and there isn't a damn thing any of your people can do, because no such proof exists.

THAT is the reason for my confidence, and it burns your butt, doesn't it?

[whitemajikman]

Global Warming: The Signs, The Science (http://www.evworld.com/general.cfm?section=communique&page=criticallink&urllink=1815)
EV World - Papillion,Nebraska,USA
Trailer for upcoming PBS documentary on global warming, sponsored in part by Toyota. (Windows Media Video). IMPORTANT NOTICE: This ...


That methane article should have caught your eyes, people!





Actually Boomer It's Old News.........

WMM

[whitemajikman]

Sorry, whitey. If this were true, I'd still be posting at the chemmie-only boards and Carnicom and the rest would be palsy-walsy. I know that what I've done has been one of the biggest blows to chemmiedom, and am proud of it.

BTW, dude, where is all that proof you promised your fellow chemmies?
That sort of non-performance, a trait shared by all chemmies, is probably the second biggest factor in the failure of the "chemtrails" hoax, and there isn't a damn thing any of your people can do, because no such proof exists.

THAT is the reason for my confidence, and it burns your butt, doesn't it?

But You Do Post Jay..........Do You Really Think That Nobody Knows..........

Also Jay Greenpeace is now involved....and so is their political lobby.........CHEMTRAILS ARE NOT A HOAX.......But A part Of Geo-engineering..............

Oh and Guess What There Is Not a Thing you Can Do To Stop This Snowball Effect..........

WMM

[jayreynolds]

Also Jay Greenpeace is now involved....and so is their political lobby.........CHEMTRAILS ARE NOT A HOAX.......But A part Of Geo-engineering..............
Oh and Guess What There Is Not a Thing you Can Do To Stop This Snowball Effect..........
WMM
What you speak of is the "SNOWBALL'S CHANCE IN HELL EFFECT", right whitey?

Ok, show us the proof, whitey...............

[whitemajikman]

Jay You Have Been Stalking Me Since 2001.........And Wayne Since 2000..............

You cache every word we type on the internet and then use selected quotes out of context to further your propaganda that NO GEO-ENGINEERING Exist's...........Therefore No Chemtrails Exist.......

You Were Friends With William Cooper as was I before his death but Bill never Trusted You........and For Good reason..........YOU WERE INSTRUMENTAL IN HIS DEATH..........

You Can Play Your Little Game Jay..........BUT I KNOW WHO YOU WORK FOR..............AND I KNOW THEY THREATENED YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.........With The Same END............

That Is Why JAY REYNOLDS THE WORLD'S BIGGEST CHEMMIE IS NOW A DEBUNKER FOR THE GOVERNMENT ...........

You See Jay The TRUTH is not Elusive........and THE TRUTH IS THAT YOU ENGAGE IN CRIMINALITY..........

What Would Bill Think If He Was Still Alive........?

Because I Know He Is Rolling Over in His Grave Due To What You Have Become.........

You Failed Him.......

Just As You Are Now Failing Yourself..........

WMM

[whitemajikman]

Jay What You Have To Say In Your Defence .......?

WMM

[jayreynolds]

Waiting on you, buddy, to show evidence for your claims.
Waiting a good long while, and now you've set a deadline.
Only 3&1/2 months to go, dude.
Better bring it on.
But of course you won't.
Just like you didn't for these claims running back two years:


Ahhh.....
I have actually gotten to the Bottom of the Chemtrail Phenomena ........And Have gotten The Answers I sought after.

The public awaits proof of your claims, whitey.
Still waiting, five months now.............
"rhoades scholar" indeed!


Whitemajikman
Sheeple
Posts: 28
(10/25/03 1:14 pm)
Reply Re: chemtrails..........confirmed!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as soon as you post yours chickiedeb.........ill be happy to post my credentials........ill give you a little hint tho.....i am a rhoades scholar.........and have several degrees......from three of the top learning institutions in the world.....i am not afraid to put my name out on too a posting board.....so as soon as you post your degrees on this board mine will follow then you can begin investigating my long and varied career as i will yours.......but i fear as always.......you will not comply with reasoning.......you will either ban me.......or you will come up with some other excuse why you cant post your credentials.........so......it begs for questioning are you willing to take me up on this offer or not?.......it all comes down to responsibility.......are you responsible enough in your judgement to finally know the truth about me.......and of course there is the other question that remains unanswered to you have the intestinal fortitude to stand by your attacks............without showing any shred of proof that you are qualified in making all the assumptions.......you have previously made..............only time will tell.........sincerely the whitemajikman........


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whitemajikman
Sheeple
Posts: 30
(10/25/03 2:34 pm)
Reply Re: chemtrails..........confirmed!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
msc from m.i.t.......phd from oxford......and several other associate degrees.............all before i was 25........also....your belief that chemtrails do not exist goes against the findings of the world meteorological society......which has studied the phenomena........for the last 15 years...............what you must consider is this.....if we can seed clouds........how far of a leap is it to surmise that instead of iodine.......barium sulphate is being substituted .It would seem to me that it would be very simple to do ....even at high altitudes .......but i think what has been lost on all of the debate is the question of "why"...........that i can answer......haarp on their official website.......a government website...........states that barium sulphate is indeed being used to promote the effects of haarp's experimentation.......so i conclude that the chem trails everybody is trying to debunk here do in fact exist......and are a part of the experimentation that is needed for the haarp project to succeed.........end of conspiracy.........except for one huge fact.......barium sulphate is very toxic....and causes numerous health problems..........and it is being used daily.......at concentrations far exceeding the safe limit.......what you all should be asking yourselves is who gave the government permission to use such a device without public and enviromental controls in place..........that is where the real conspiracy........starts.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whitemajikman
Sheeple
Posts: 31
(10/26/03 2:23)
Reply THE ENDGAME.......my favorite........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a bit of wisdom for all you non-believers.........ive only been posting here for a little over 2 weeks...........but my esteemed colleagues.....have been posting here for months.....trying to let you in on the big secret behind chemtrails.............most of my colleagues work at haarp and designed the chemical composition that makes up chemtrails......but thats another story..........what im about to do goes against my better judgement............all of you chemtrail debunkers indirectly work for me and my esteemed colleagues and im sick and tired of all the bullshit and irrational thought that has come about regarding my research ....so in light of all you naysayers.........i propose this................all of you get together and come up with a concensus of what proof you would deem fit to finally lay to rest chemtrails forever.......once you have that concensus............i will provide all proof........including manifests,names of chemical companies which knowingly supply the chemicals,research data from haarp and its chemtrail experimentation,names of all politicians both canadian and american who know whats going on,high-resolution sattelite imagery of jets releasing their chemtrails with both canadian and american insignia,the true purpose of chemtrails,security camera footage of the inner workings of haarp.......and the most important piece of the puzzle...... some of the people among you who recieve large amounts of money to keep this forum up and running........now im talking there real names,birthdates,backgrounds,whom they really work for and what exactly there main directives are.........i told you all previously that i am well known in many circles......and by the way the only kooks there are on this forum are the debunkers that spend all their time living a lie............now is the time for reality at its finest.................will you take my challenge or will you all run and hide...........thats the big question..........oh and banning me from this sight will not work........either im a free man......always have been..........there is not a security protocol that i cant crack.............it was part of my extensive education............so..........do you all have the guts or will you run...............


Whitemajikman
Illumi~Naughty
Posts: 1647
(4/24/05 4:31 pm)
Reply CHEMTRAILS AND U.V. RADIATION..........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DURING MY WEEKEND JAUNT TO C.F.B. WAINWRIGHT......
HERE IN ALBERTA......
I BROUGHT UP A FEW QUESTIONS REGARDING THE INCREASE IN THE CONTRAILS IN THE SKY......
TO ABOUT A DOZEN MILITARY PILOTS BASED IN WAINWRIGHT.....
MANY I HAVE KNOWN SINCE GRADE SCHOOL.....
RIGHT OFF THE BAT.....
I WAS CHASTIZED FOR CALLING THEM NORMAL CONTRAILS.......
BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING NATURAL IN REGARDS TO THOSE DREADED LINES IN THE SKY......
YOU SEE ALBERTA AND MANY OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD ARE DIRECTLY BENEATH HOLES IN THE OZONE LAYER........
OR ARE SUBJECTED TO THIN OZONE LEVEL'S........
THOSE LINES IN THE SKY .....SPREAD OUT.......AND CREATE
A FILTER....BY PRODUCING CLOUD COVER......
THEIR WORDS NOT MINE......
SO IN LIGHT OF THIS NEW INFORMATION......FROM THE ACTUAL PILOTS THEMSELVES.....
I THINK IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO REOPEN THE CHEMTRAIL DEBATE.......
ANY TAKERS.....?WMM



5/25/2005
you see Jay Jay.....
I am not going to post my findings........
I am going to publish them........
WMM



You See Jay Jay......
I don't need to provide PROOF......of my associations......



Jay I Will Give You Time to RETHINK your POSITION BEFORE I REALLY GET SERIOUS IN DEBUNKING YOU.
2005 is the year THE TRUTH ABOUT CHEMTRAILS(CONTRAILS) will be FOUND.

[whitemajikman]

LETS TALK ABOUT TRUTH JAY.........

ITS YOUR TURN .......TO BE SCRUTINIZED........

WHY DID YOU SELL OUT WILLIAM COOPER.........?

YOU ARE PARTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS DEATH.........YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS...........

Start Explaining..........

WMM

[jayreynolds]

LETS TALK ABOUT TRUTH JAY.........

ITS YOUR TURN .......TO BE SCRUTINIZED........

WHY DID YOU SELL OUT WILLIAM COOPER.........?

YOU ARE PARTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS DEATH.........YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS...........

Start Explaining..........

WMM
And you have proof of this?
Put or shut up Whiteyboy.

[Boomer Chick]

Solar a Key Component of Habitat for Humanity Home

Golden, Colorado [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-19 - Habitat for Humanity of Metro Denver dedicated the ultimate energy efficient demonstration home: a house designed to produce as much energy as it consumes on an annual basis.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36739)



Xantrex Makes Commercial Wind Power Strides

Vancouver, British Columbia [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-16 - Follow the wiring from many solar PV panels put up in the last decade in North America and you're bound to find a Xantrex inverter. Soon, a look deep inside a new line of multi-MW wind turbines will reveal Xantrex components at work generating renewable energy from the wind as well.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36660)



600 MW of Wind Power Expands Renewable Energy Projects

Orlando, Florida [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-15 - Siemens Power Generation received an order from FPL Energy for wind turbines totaling up to 600 MW. FPL Energy currently operates 45 wind facilities in operation in 15 states.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36590)



Solar Certification Opens European Doors

Los Angeles, California [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-20 - As result of securing an international certification for their thin-film solar technology, California-based Solar Integrated Technologies (SIT) landed their first European contracts to meet the German market's relentless demand for solar photovoltaic products.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36790)



New York Announces New Energy Plans

Albany, New York [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-19 - With energy prices skyrocketing across the nation, New York State's Governor George E. Pataki announced broad energy plans aimed at cushioning the impact of energy prices on state consumers and homeowners. Building upon the Governor's support of clean energy, the plans include an emphasis on renewable energy technologies.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36740)



Renewable Energy to Protect PA's Consumers

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-19 - Citizens for Pennsylvania's Future (PennFuture) announced that it and 11 other parties had reached a settlement with Philadelphia-based PECO Energy to cut the costs of electricity to residential, small business and commercial customers; maintain current prices for the delivery of electricity for four more years; and substantially expand assistance to low income customers.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36742)



Western Governors Hone in on Solar Goals

Washington, DC [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-20 - With a longer-term federal investment tax credit and state-based incentives, the western United States could install as much as eight gigawatts of solar electric generating capacity by 2015, according to a new report produced for the Western Governors' Association.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36791)



USDA Grants $21 Million for Renewable Energy

Salt Lake City, Utah [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-15 - Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns announced the selection of 150 applicants to receive almost $21 million in USDA Rural Development grant assistance for renewable energy and energy efficiency projects in 32 states.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36595)



Cow Manure Powered Ethanol Plant Saves Oil and Gas

Dallas, Texas [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-20 - Panda Energy will build a 100 million gallon fuel ethanol plant in Haskell County, Kansas that will use a billion pounds of cattle manure each year as a renewable fuel to power the plant's operations.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36794)



NZ Labour Policy Backs Up Renewable Energy

Wellington, New Zealand [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-19 - The New Zealand Labour Party announced plans to examine new ways to include a stronger level of renewable energy in the country's electricity system.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36744)



Trial Run for Testing Emissions-to-Biofuels Conversion

Cambridge, Massachusetts [RenewableEnergyAccess.com] - 2005-09-16 - The first Advance Module has been delivered to a large electricity-generating customer by GreenFuel Technologies. The module, suitable for use as a renewable fuels source, is scaled to provide a practical demonstration of GreenFuel's trademark emissions-to-biofuels system, which uses naturally occurring, nontoxic, photosynthetic algae to convert up to 86 percent NOx and 40 percent CO2 from smokestack gases into energy-rich biomass.

Read the full story on RenewableEnergyAccess.com (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36663)

BACK TO TOP (file:///C:/WINDOWS/TEMP/5B77BEBE-2A77-11DA-9CB3-00055D53566D/EML2196.HTM#TOP)

Briefly Noted : A selection of this weeks's News Briefs
Commitment to Renewable Energy Blows Hot and Cold (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36796)

Wind Farm Planned on River Mersey (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36800)

Clinton Global Initiative Features Renewable Energy Components (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36746)

PPM Secures 300 MW of New Wind Turbines (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36669)

Katrina Wood Waste Creates Biomass Opportunity (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36600)

Biodiesel Plants Planned for the Southeast (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36797)

Solar Power All Goes to Local Grid (http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=36670)

[Boomer Chick]

Google Alert for: global warming





Is Global Warming Causing Increased Severe Weather? (http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-09-20-voa49.cfm)
Voice of America - USA
... A recent study released in the journal Science has raised the issue once again of whether global warming is responsible for the increase in these violent storms ...


Global warming: Siberia feels the heat (http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/sep202005/snt1151422005919.asp)
Deccan Herald - Bangalore,India
A vast expanse of western Sibera is undergoing an unprecedented thaw that could dramatically increase the rate of global warming, climate scientists warn. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/sep202005/snt1151422005919.asp)

Alberta must take economic advantage of global warming : Oberg (http://www.canada.com/calgary/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=3f0f1fd4-39cf-4bad-8d5e-a688a925939c)
Calgary Herald - Alberta, Canada
CALGARY (CP) _ Alberta must take economic advantage of global warming or risk being left out in the cold, says Infrastructure Minister Lyle Oberg. ...


We can help global warming - and ourselves (http://caymannetnews.com/2005/09/927/global.shtml)
Cayman Net News - grand cayman,Cayman Islands
... We have the opportunity to look at our responsibilities, and to make a serious contribution towards dealing with the fallout from global warming -- and some ...


Global warming ... don't blame it on the sunshine (http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/articles/2005/09/20/1126982063383.html)
Illawarra Mercury - Wollongong,New South Wales,Australia
A NEW University of Wollongong study could fire the global warming debate with suggestions the sun may not be the villain some have claimed. ...


Solving global warming architecturally (http://www.tuftsdaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/09/20/432faada7b04a)
Tufts Daily - Medford,MA,USA
... Mazria spoke about the need for environmentally friendly architecture as a way to address global warming. His speech was hosted ...


Katrina, Global Warming and Honest Disagreement (http://www.nationalcenter.org/2005/09/katrina-global-warming-and-honest.html)
The National Center for Public Policy Research - Washington,DC,USA
... Wayne Madsen in newspapers across the country on the question: "Are climate-change advocates wrong to blame Katrina's fury on man-made global warming?". ...
Curbing Global Warming (http://www.chicagoflame.com/news/2005/09/19/Features/Curbing.Global.Warming-990226.shtml)
Chicago Flame Online (subscription) - Chicago,IL,USA
By Douglas Pearson. Larry David the creator of Seinfeld is now helping his wife, Laurie David, take on global warming. Laurie David ...

[jayreynolds]

People in The News:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003562.htm

[Boomer Chick]

People in The News:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003562.htm

;)

Google Alert for: global warming




Hey Liberals: Better Save Mars from Global Warming (http://www.michnews.com/artman/publish/article_9583.shtml)
MichNews.com - Troy,MI,USA
... All I seem to hear lately is how Earth is warming up, and due to air pollution we have become the cause of Global Warming and therefore are the major cause of ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.michnews.com/artman/publish/article_9583.shtml)

Katie Couric and Matt Lauer Blame Hurricanes On Global Warming (http://newsbusters.org/node/1342)
NewsBusters - USA
The Hurricane Katrina inspired global warming stories. ... Matt Lauer: "Then why are there so many hurricanes this year and is global warming to blame? ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://newsbusters.org/node/1342)

2003 heatwave 'may have sped up global warming' (http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=EC2117823W&news_headline=2003_heatwave_may_have_sped_up_globa l_warming)
Life Style Extra - UK
... record heatwave that scorched Europe two years ago killing tens of thousands of people could have led to a devastating increase in global warming, new research ...


Impact of global warming on weather patterns underestimated (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-09/uoea-iog092005.php)
EurekAlert - Washington,DC,USA
The impact of global warming on European weather patterns has been underestimated, according to a new report published in Nature this week. ...


Global warming on Mars (http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/018411.html)
World Magazine Blog - Chicago,IL,USA
... Apparently, President Bush's enviromental policies are so destructive that they are causing global warming throughout the solar system. (HT: Instapundit).


Global Warming on Mars (http://powerlineblog.com/archives/011741.php)
Power Line - Minneapolis,MN,USA
... The Mars Global Surveyor data suggest what I think would be a relatively simple experiment: Why not place thermometers in a few locations on Mars, equipped ...
Berkeley Reduces Carbon Emissions in Effort to Combat Global ... (http://journalism.berkeley.edu/ngno/stories/016817.html)
North Gate News - Berkeley,CA,USA
... Kyoto. Protocol, an international treaty intended to combat the effects of global warming. emissions from 1990 levels by 2010. Some ...

[Boomer Chick]

Google Alert for: global warming





Hurricanes and global warming - a link? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4276242.stm)
BBC News - UK
... The latest to succumb was the British newspaper The Independent, which screamed on its front page: "This is global warming", above an alarmingly portentous ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4276242.stm)

End of 'normal' hurricanes means preparing for global warming (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/09/23/EDGA8ERM8O1.DTL)
San Francisco Chronicle - United States
... While environmentalists and their conservative opponents argue about whether global warming is the result of human activities or natural cycles, scientists ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi%3Ffile%3D/chronicle/archive/2005/09/23/EDGA8ERM8O1.DTL)

Underestimating the threat of global warming (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=14&click_id=143&art_id=vn20050923070939934C894648)
Independent Online - Cape Town,South Africa
... They believe global warming is melting Arctic ice so rapidly that the region is beginning to absorb more heat from the sun, causing the ice to melt still ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.iol.co.za/index.php%3Fset_id%3D14%26click_id%3D143%26art_id% 3Dvn20050923070939934C894648)

Global warming brings health, security risks (http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2005/09/23/2003272763)
Taipei Times - Taiwan
Global warming by the year 2100 could also lead to more droughts, floods and typhoons, and increase the incidence of malaria, dengue fever and cholera, the ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2005/09/23/2003272763)

Is Global Warming Affecting Hurricanes? (http://www.kwqc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3884853&nav=7k7NJ1IJ)
KWQC-TV - Davenport,IA,USA
... But there's evidence global warming has nothing to do with a more active hurricane season. The government's lead seasonal hurricane ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.kwqc.com/Global/story.asp%3FS%3D3884853%26nav%3D7k7NJ1IJ)

Global Warming Causing lots of hurricanes? I think not. (http://tankertodd.redstate.org/story/2005/9/23/85621/5615)
RedState.org - USA
The titles assumes, of course, that "Global Warming" is different than global warming. The former is the political game and pseudoscience ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://tankertodd.redstate.org/story/2005/9/23/85621/5615)

Climate Change (Global Warming) (http://www.ago.state.ma.us/sp.cfm?pageid=1234)
Massachusetts Attorney General (press release) - Boston,MA,USA
... Reilly is a leading advocate in the nationwide fight to push the federal government to seriously address the real and growing problem of global warming. ...


Global-warming debate heats up in SL (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,615152444,00.html)
Deseret News - Salt Lake City,UT,USA
People need to wake up and realize that global warming is leading to "the destruction of our ski industry," Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson warned Thursday ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,615152444,00.html) Report: Longer summers contribute to Arctic warming in Alaska (http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2005/09/23/news/regional/87b21d1e0fed9f31872570850057e049.txt)
The Casper Star Tribune - Casper,WY,USA
By DAN JOLING. ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) -- Global warming research in Alaska has centered largely on its warmer winters. But a new ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2005/09/23/news/regional/87b21d1e0fed9f31872570850057e049.txt)

[Boomer Chick]

HellooooOOOOoooooooooo!!!

Google Alert for: global warming




In global warming's kitchen, hurricanes love the heat (http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0539,fmurphy,68216,6.html)
Village Voice - New York,NY,USA
... Now that two superstorms have pummeled the Gulf Coast in less than four weeks, one has to ask: Has global warming souped up Atlantic hurricanes? ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0539,fmurphy,68216,6.html)

Global warming and the airline industry (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/B424408.htm)
Reuters AlertNet - London,England,UK
... Aviation causes 3.5 percent of man-made global warming, according to the Inter-Governmental Panel on Climate Change. This could rise to 15 percent by 2050. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/B424408.htm)

Warming gains converts (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/the_valley/12751898.htm)
San Jose Mercury News - United States
By Glennda Chui. Ten years ago, most hurricane researchers were skeptical of claims that global warming would trigger an increase in hurricane activity. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/the_valley/12751898.htm)

Studies Link Storms to Global Warming (http://www.toptechnews.com/news/Studies-Link-Storms-to-Global-Warming/story.xhtml?story_id=12300CNQK3FL)
Top Tech News - Woodland Hills,CA,USA
... Webster won't say conclusively that the more powerful hurricanes can be blamed on global warming. The storms are pumped up by the warmer ocean water. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.toptechnews.com/news/Studies-Link-Storms-to-Global-Warming/story.xhtml%3Fstory_id%3D12300CNQK3FL)

Leading Hurricane Experts Downplay Global Warming (http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=17783)
The Heartland Institute - Chicago,IL,USA
Claims in the media that global warming is making hurricanes worse are running into a gale of their own from scientists who specialize in studying the tropical ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm%3FartId%3D17783)

Statement by Dave Hamilton, Director, Sierra Club's Global Warming ... (http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0926-14.htm)
Common Dreams (press release) - Portland,ME,USA
... It would also save consumers money at the gas pump and curb the heat-trapping pollution that causes global warming.". Drive Smart! ...


Global Warming: Lukewarm Policy, Red-Hot Politics (http://www-tech.mit.edu/V125/N42/bsingh42.html)
The MIT Tech - Boston,MA,USA
Over the past decade, there has scarcely been an environmental issue as concerning to the general population as the threat of global warming. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www-tech.mit.edu/V125/N42/bsingh42.html)

Global warming Earth's biggest threat: Flannery (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1468933.htm)
ABC Online - Australia
Australian scientist Dr Tim Flannery is warning that global warming poses the biggest threat to the survival of the planet. He has ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1468933.htm)

Burying CO2 may curb global warming, but cost high (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=scienceNews&storyID=2005-09-26T204354Z_01_DIT674610_RTRUKOC_0_US-ENVIRONMENT-CARBON.xml)
Reuters - USA
OSLO (Reuters) - Burying heat-trapping gases emitted by power plants and factories could play a big role in fighting global warming but would be a costly fix ...
Scientists feeling heat of global warming (http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4112368,00.html)
Rocky Mountain News - Denver,CO,USA
... Other researchers agreed, despite Mahoney's assurances that the US government "is doing a great deal" to combat global warming. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4112368,00.html)

[Boomer Chick]

Lawsuit over global warming! Amazing! I used to live in Arcata, California and I live not far from Boulder, CO, and I was born across the Oakland bridge in S.F.! Go Boulder, Oakland, Santa Monica, Arcata, Greenpeace, and Friends of the Earth!

Washington to Be Sued over Global Warming
By Andrew Buncombe
The Independent UK


Friday 26 August 2005

In a landmark judgment, a court in California has allowed a coalition of environmental groups to sue the US government over global warming - the first time a court has recognised the potentially disastrous impact of climate change.

A judge in San Francisco gave permission for the two groups, along with four US cities, to sue two federal development agencies that provide billions of dollars in loans to fund projects overseas. Some of the projects are power plants that emit greenhouse gases while others include pipeline projects that allow the transfer of oil.

"This is the first time a US court has given a plaintiff the right to go to court solely on the global warming issue," Geoff Hand, a Vermont-based lawyer in the case, told The Independent. "It's a great advance."

Mr. Hand said the case would not strictly be an examination of global warming science, but he added: "We have dealt with the jurisdiction issues - the case will now go on to the merits. It essentially puts the onus on to the government and means they have to show global warming is not happening. It will have to provide evidence to say it is not happening."

The lawsuit was brought by Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, along with the cities of Boulder, Colorado, and the Californian cities of Oakland, Santa Monica and Arcata. In the filing the cities argued that the impact of global warming - including rising sea levels and warmer ocean temperatures - would have a negative impact on their communities.

The coastal city of Arcata said: "Arcata is presently suffering and will continue to suffer, these consequences. [The government agencies' actions] increase the risk that Arcata's interests are and will continue to be harmed by climate change."

Jerry Brown, the Mayor of Oakland, said: "Tragically, the federal government is violating federal law, which requires an assessment of cumulative impacts. This injures the citizens of Oakland, and every person in this country."

The lawsuit names two government agencies - the Overseas Private Investment Corporation (Opic) and the Export-Import Bank of the United States. It claims that 8 per cent of all the world's greenhouse gases come from projects supported by these two agencies. The projects listed by the plaintiffs include the Sakhalin oil field off the coast of Russia's Sakhalin island, one of the largest offshore developments in history; the Chad-Cameroon oil pipeline which stretches around 600 miles from Doba to the Cameroon port of Kribi and the Cantarell oilfields in Mexico.

The lawsuit argued that the National Environmental Policy Act - which requires environmental assessments of projects in the US - should apply to US-backed projects overseas. The law should apply, it was argued, because they contribute to the degradation of the US environment as a result of global warming.

In the latest report on the effects of climate change, a study by north American scientists predicts that global warming is pushing the Arctic system into a seasonally ice-free state for the first time in more than a million years, and that this process is accelerating.

In his ruling, US District Judge Jeffrey White said the plaintiff's "evidence is sufficient to demonstrate it is reasonably probable that emissions from projects supported by Opic and the Export-Import Bank will threaten plaintiffs' concrete interests."

Kert Davies, research director of Greenpeace, said: "This case once again highlights the fact that global warming pollution doesn't recognise political borders." A spokeswoman for the Export-Import Bank, Linda Formella, said the agency did not comment on pending litigation.

-------

Well, this awhile back, but keep your eye out for updates!

[jayreynolds]

Greenhouse-gas suit tossed out by judge
California, 7 other states had sought emission limits on power plants.

"These actions present non-justiciable political questions that are consigned to the political branches, not the judiciary," Preska concluded...............................
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/energy/story/13572870p-14413223c.html
=====================================

[Boomer Chick]

Greenhouse-gas suit tossed out by judge
California, 7 other states had sought emission limits on power plants.

"These actions present non-justiciable political questions that are consigned to the political branches, not the judiciary," Preska concluded...............................
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/energy/story/13572870p-14413223c.html
=====================================

REALLY?


OH POO !!!

Although I couldn't subscribe to read the article, I do believe I recall hearing an announcement about this on Coast to Coast one night. But I didn't recall when I read the article and posted it.

Thanks, Jay! :)

[Boomer Chick]

Google Alert for: global warming





Global warming may contribute to hurricane intensity, says UI ... (http://www.ktvb.com/news/special1/stories/ktvbn-sept2705-global_warming.9bce2c0b.html)
KTVB - Boise,ID,USA
MOSCOW -- A University of Idaho professor suspects global warming may have made hurricanes Katrina and Rita more devastating than usual. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.ktvb.com/news/special1/stories/ktvbn-sept2705-global_warming.9bce2c0b.html)

Debunking the Global Warming Myths (http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html?id=8594)
The Conservative Voice - USA
2) There has never been conclusive evidence that global warming is NOT a normal cyclical trend between periods of global cooling, or that it is caused by CO2 ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html%3Fid%3D8594)

Global warming: Death in the deep-freeze (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article315614.ece)
Independent - London,England,UK
As global warming melts the world's ice sheets, rising sea levels are not the only danger. Viruses hidden for thousands of years ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article315614.ece)

Steps to Limit Global-Warming Gas (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/28/science/28climate.html)
New York Times - United States
Capturing and storing the carbon dioxide generated by power plants and factories could play an important role in limiting global warming caused by humans, says ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/28/science/28climate.html)

Task force promotes action vs. global warming (http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2005/09/26/daily36.html?jst=b_ln_hl)
Charlotte Business Journal - Charlotte,NC,USA
... and environmentalists issued a report Wednesday suggesting that North Carolina can benefit economically by taking aggressive action against global warming. ...


Dengue outbreak could be linked to global warming, climate change ... (http://www.hindu.com/2005/09/28/stories/2005092800281500.htm)
Hindu - Chennai,India
KOLKATA: The outbreak of dengue in Kolkata and its suburbs could well be a fall-out of global warming, precipitated by environmental changes and resulting in ...


Nuclear power 'will help combat global warming' (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article315531.ece)
Independent - London,England,UK
... by the nuclear industry, Mr Wicks said the government was "keeping options open" about expanding the nuclear industry as a way of reducing global warming. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article315531.ece)

It's Solar Warming, Not Global Warming (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_092705/content/enviro_wacko_update.guest.html)
RushLimbaugh.com (subscription) - Sherman Oaks,CA,USA
Max Mayfield was all over television Sunday, shouting in his own fashion, "No, global warming had nothing to do with this! ... There is in global warming on this. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_092705/content/enviro_wacko_update.guest.html)

Scientist link hurricanes, global warming (http://www.southerndigest.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/09/27/433aba4e82c0f)
The Southern Digest - Baton Rouge,LA,USA
BY TERRY JONES. Discussion linking climate changes and global warming to stronger hurricanes has finally reached Southern University. ...
Northeast States Huddle To Finalize Plan To Cut Global Warming ... (http://ripirg.org/RI.asp?id2=19436)
RIPIRG (PressRelease) - Providence,RI,USA
... Top officials from nine Northeastern states are meeting in Providence, Rhode Island this week, trying to finalize a plan to cut global warming pollution from ...

[Boomer Chick]

Published on Thursday, September 29, 2005 by One World (http://www.oneworld.net/)
Fossil Fuels Set to Become Relics, Says Research Group
by Abid Aslam
WASHINGTON - Energy drawn from the wind, tide, sun, Earth's heat, and farm waste is poised to begin replacing oil and other fossil fuels, a prominent research group said Wednesday in a wake-up call to industry executives and government officials worldwide.


Wind turbines that produce electricity spin at a wind farm in Daban, in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.For energy-hungry Asian governments, the answer could literally be blowing in the wind. Across the region, renewable energy such as solar, wind and geothermal power is gaining ever greater credence as a way to curb the region's appetite for oil and cut runaway import bills. With oil prices near $70, and expected by many analyst to stay over $50 through the end of 2006, governments believe alternative energy will help keep their economies growing. (CHINA OUT REUTERS/China Newsphoto/Files)
''Energy markets are about to experience a seismic shift,'' Christopher Flavin, president of the Washington, D.C.-based Worldwatch Institute, said in a speech to oil executives and energy ministers in Johannesburg, South Africa, site of the 18th World Petroleum Congress.

''The question for oil executives is whether you're in the oil business or the energy business.''

The conference's 5,000 participants included ExxonMobil President Rex Tillerson and Saudi Arabian Oil Minister Ali Al-Naimi, Worldwatch said.

To be sure, oil accounts for about 30 percent of the world's energy use while renewable energy sources make up a slim two percent. However, according to Flavin, the market share of renewable energy sources was growing apace.

Unlike fossil fuels, of which there is a limited supply, renewable energy--including solar, wind, and geothermal power and biofuels--is derived from sources that are continually replaced.

Most renewable energies are non-polluting. By contrast, scientists say the burning of fossil fuels contributes to global warming, which in turn drives the increased incidence and intensity of major storms such as hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

Flavin spoke against a backdrop of soaring oil prices and demand. World oil consumption increased by 3.4 percent in 2004, the fastest rise in 16 years, Worldwatch said earlier this year in a report citing U.N., industry, and other sources.

However, the research group added, oil production is falling in 33 of the 48 largest oil-producing countries. These include six of the 11 members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC).

In the continental United States, the think tank said, oil production peaked at eight million barrels per day in 1970 and fell to 2.9 million barrels daily last year.

Production of biofuels, wind power, and solar energy are all growing at rates of 20-30 percent per year, compared with growth rates of around two percent for oil and gas, Flavin said.

The costs of renewable energy were falling fast, news reports Wednesday quoted Flavin as telling the conference. Wind power cost 46 cents per kilowatt-hour in 1980 but now costs less than six cents.

New energy sources are attracting roughly $30 billion in investment annually, he added, with Brazil, China, Germany, Japan, and California leading the emerging market.

''Already, 35 million homes in China get their hot water from solar collectors. That is more than the rest of the world combined,'' Flavin told the Reuters news agency in Johannesburg.

''There are prospects for real take-offs in solar and wind power in China, and not just hot water for homes but in industry,'' he added. ''State-owned industries and private companies there are investing heavily in renewables.''

Renewable sources account for 25 percent of Sweden's energy use and 45 percent in Norway. The United States lagged behind, with only 4.2 percent of its energy consumption coming from renewable sources.

Energy companies and governments were driving growth in renewables, Flavin said, with firms including Royal Dutch Shell Group, BP, and Mitsubishi among the major players.

Additionally, 48 countries now have policies and incentives promoting renewable energy, he added.


Copyright © 2005 OneWorld.net

[foot_soldier]

.....Renewable sources account for 25 percent of Sweden's energy use and 45 percent in Norway. The United States lagged behind, with only 4.2 percent of its energy consumption coming from renewable sources.....
Sweden, 25% and Norway, 45%. That kind of blows away the Bush administration's mantra to the effect that "more study" is needed before the supposedly technologically superior U.S. can make similar progress with renewables.

[jayreynolds]

Sweden, 25% and Norway, 45%. That kind of blows away the Bush administration's mantra to the effect that "more study" is needed before the supposedly technologically superior U.S. can make similar progress with renewables.
Here lies the rub.
Sweden and Norway are both blessed with damp climates and abundant hydropower.
In Norway's case, 99% of their power comes from hydro.
In Sweden case, the bulk of their "renewable biofuel" power comes from burning peat(essentially a fossil fuel, being the precursor of coal), and wood.
""More than 90 percent of the forest land in Norway, Sweden and Finland has been converted to intensely managed secondary forests," says Ola Larsson, information coordinator of the Taiga Rescue Network."
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1594/is_4_11/ai_63715489

In Norway, as in the US, hydropwer resources are essentially fully developed, and environmental activists are actually protesting any further development .

I don't expect you would be thrilled to find most homes in the US burning wood, or power plants burning peat, either, but we could do as the Swedes do, if the greens would let us.

"The devil is in the details"

[Boomer Chick]

Jay,

Not to be nit picky, but your first sentence wreaks of gross inaccuracies. First of all, what does a damp climate do for any renewable energy development? What, it grows forests? And through responsible husbandry, new forests are grown? That's not exactly a renewable energy source, especially when the products are exported. Equatorial regions are also damp.... so? Rainfall itself does not mean anything in reference to wind and geothermal energy production. Secondly, a natural blessing of nature can refer to "damp climate" but it cannot refer to "abundant hydropower." If you meant a source for hydropower, you would be correct..... but the actual hydropower production came from the efforts and development of the Norwegian people. Our coasts are blessed with abundant hydropower sources and as well. America's landscape offers many rivers and waterfalls as well as potentials for dams. We do utilize hydropower here as exemplified in the Hoover Dam. Of course Sweden's and Norway's natural geography lends itself to the realization of wave-generated power, wind generated power, and other renewables, but that doesn't negate one iota our national potential for wind, geothermal, solar, and other forms of renewable energies.

You missed the point. Their legislatures, their people, and their companies developed their renewable energy sources quicker and more intelligently than our counterparts. A better argument in defense of our national "slowness" would be the virtual size of our nation in comparison, not our falsely assumed lack of natural resources. Our Southwest provides more days of sun than any area in those Northern European sea countries. When you combine all of our natural resource capabilities for renewable energy..... we are surely MORE blessed than Norway, Sweden, and Finland combined.

So your argument fails.

FS compared and reitterated correctly that we as a nation are slower to realize renewable energies than many other countries..... and it is a fact. The reasons are obvious. I will grant that many circumnavigate the national dole...... but percentage wise, our renewable development has fallen behind. The sheer size of our nation is about the only part of the equation that could be used as an excuse. And yes, we are progressing despite the federal administration. No, the environmentalists are not to blame for the overall national foot-dragging.

None of your points have merit, your Jayness. Thorry.

Peace, dude.

[halva]

Dialogue with every viewpoint except the viewpoint that is centred on politically realistic and focused demands of the kind that could not be accepted by a Reynolds, whose first and last priority is to preserve the intolerable existent.

Rejection of this Boomer Chick/Arianna Huffington/Democratic Party type politics in the United States will be messy and chaotic. Enjoy.

[Boomer Chick]

Dialogue with every viewpoint except the viewpoint that is centred on politically realistic and focused demands of the kind that could not be accepted by a Reynolds, whose first and last priority is to preserve the existent.

What is your point, Halva? Are you coyly alluding to my ignoring you?

I don't ignore you!

What demands?


Rejection of this Boomer Chick/Arianna Huffington/Democratic Party type politics in the United States will be messy and chaotic. Enjoy.

In the above sentence you're missing a subject; the actual person doing the "rejection" is not even mentioned. WHO is rejecting the BC/AH/DP politics in the
US?

Are you predicting Jay's response or something? I'm confused and I wonder if you might contribute to the topic at all.....

You know, the topic has to do with the US's productivity in the alternative energy development field in comparison to other countries. Do you have any information regarding Greece? HUH? You want to be part of the intellectual discussion or a part of your own individual socio-political commentary which is neither here nor there nor productive for you or anyone else on this forum.

Do you have an answer?

[Boomer Chick]

Google Alert for: global warming





Sun's direct role in global warming may be underestimated, Duke ... (http://www.physorg.com/news6892.html)
PhysOrg.com - Evergreen,VA,USA
The physicists said that their findings indicate that climate models of global warming need to be corrected for the effects of changes in solar activity. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.physorg.com/news6892.html)

Melting ice blamed on global warming (http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2005/s1471485.htm)
ABC Online - Australia
... The area covered by ice has been gradually shrinking for some time, but scientists say the melting rate is accelerating and global warming is to blame. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2005/s1471485.htm)

Warming will affect water supply, scientists warn Seattle ... (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002530497_waterwoes30m.html)
Seattle Times - United States
... Expect that to happen more in the future because of global warming, according to the findings of University of Washington scientists. ...


Global warming could threaten ocean life (http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=106&sid=6126393&cKey=1128023406000)
Swissinfo - Switzerland
... global CO2 emissions. The gas, which remains in the atmosphere, leads to the phenomenon known as global warming. The level of CO2 ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html%3FsiteSect%3D106%26sid%3D6126393%26 cKey%3D1128023406000)

The rich get richer; Time cries global warming (http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/columnists/steigerwald/s_379247.html)
Pittsburgh Tribune-Review - Pittsburgh,PA,USA
... copies by blaming Hurricanes Katrina and Rita on the environmentalists' all-purpose cause of every earthly climatic disaster or anomaly -- global warming. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/columnists/steigerwald/s_379247.html)

Michael Crichton testifies on Global Warming (http://contemporarylit.about.com/b/a/2005_09_29.htm)
romancefiction.about.com - USA
Michael Crichton has been called to testify before the United States Senate on the issue of global warming. He was summoned by Senator ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://contemporarylit.about.com/b/a/2005_09_29.htm)

Bugs, Songs and Global Warming (http://www.nationalcenter.org/2005/09/bugs-songs-and-global-warming.html)
The National Center for Public Policy Research - Washington,DC,USA
... Ms. Streisand declared to ABC's Diane Sawyer: "We are in a global warming emergency state and these storms are going to become more frequent, more intense.". ...


Sun's changes play role in global warming (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9544093/)
MSNBC - USA
Increased output from the sun might be to blame for 10 to 30 percent of global warming that has been measured in the past 20 years, according to a new report. ...
20 tips to help reduce global warming (http://www.spectrum.newmilford.com/story.php?id=652259)
Greater New Milford Spectrum - New Milford,CT,USA
Clean or replace dirty air filters, which can save five percent of the energy used. Put energy-efficient compact fluorescent bulbs ...

[Boomer Chick]

September 30, 2005


[/url] [url="http://www.physorg.com/printnews.php?newsid=6892"] (http://www.physorg.com/newsletter) (http://www.physorg.com/email.php?newsid=6892)
At least 10 to 30 percent of global warming measured during the past two decades may be due to increased solar output rather than factors such as increased heat-absorbing carbon dioxide gas released by various human activities, two Duke University physicists report.

http://www.physorg.com/news6892.html

[Boomer Chick]

Google Alert for: global warming





Sun's effect on global warming underrated: report (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051002/globalwarming_sun_051002/20051002?hub=SciTech)
CTV.ca - Canada
Increased solar output contributed to at least 10 to 30 per cent of global warming from 1980 to 2002, two Duke University physicists report. ...


Preparing for Global Warming (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/10/02/EDGSHDTUF11.DTL)
San Francisco Chronicle - United States
... Most climate scientists have been predicting that global warming would spawn an increasing number of these events in the future. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi%3Ffile%3D/chronicle/archive/2005/10/02/EDGSHDTUF11.DTL)

More solar output adding to global warming (http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php?feed=Science&article=UPI-1-20051001-22544800-bc-us-globalwarming.xml)
Science Daily (press release) - USA
... warming (September 8, 2005) -- Scientists say Arctic warming is stimulating the growth of vegetation, which, in turn, could cause even more global warming. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php%3Ffeed%3DScience%26article%3DUPI-1-20051001-22544800-bc-us-globalwarming.xml)

Global warming impact seen (http://www.scoopt.org/article3435-global-warming-impact.html)
Scoopt.org - Portogruaro,Italy
THE Arctic ice shelf has melted for the fourth straight year to its smallest area in a century, apparently driven by rising temperatures that appear linked to ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.scoopt.org/article3435-global-warming-impact.html)

Global warming ends white Christmas (http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2026812005)
Scotsman - United Kingdom
A white Christmas may soon be no more than a dream in many parts of southern England because of global warming, experts warn. Friends ...
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More solar output adding to global warming (http://science.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1051913.php/More_solar_output_adding_to_global_warming)
Monsters and Critics.com - Glasgow,UK
DURHAM, NC, United States (UPI) -- At least 10 percent to 30 percent of global warming measured during the past two decades may be due to increased solar output ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://science.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1051913.php/More_solar_output_adding_to_global_warming)

War, Racism and Global Warming (http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=1&ItemID=8857)
ZNet - Woods Hole,MA,USA
... It is also important that the peace movement strengthen its involvement with the growing movement to stop global warming. An international ...


Blair takes heat for global-warming remarks (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/10/02/EDGR9EVTDL1.DTL)
San Francisco Chronicle - United States
... I do not write this to brand them as hypocrites -- but to point out that if the folks who believe global warming is a severe threat to the planet don't ride ...


Global warming affects Southeast (http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/100205/met_4955657.shtml)
Augusta Chronicle (subscription) - Augusta,GA,USA
... But the imprecise phenomenon known as global warming goes far beyond our songbirds and flowers. It is serious business; scientists ...
Blame Global Warming For Increase In Insects (http://www.farminglife.com/story/5793)
Farming Life - Belfast,Ireland
By Niki Hill. As you drive through the countryside or take a dander some morning or afternoon, you can see flocks of crows and seagulls ...

[foot_soldier]

A "robust" storm dumped up to a foot of rain in parts of northeast Kansas today, causing flash flooding which left people stranded in their cars and homes and closed nearly all roads in Jefferson County.

Last Thursday 40mph sustained winds gusting up to 60mph caused extensive tree and power line damage in the Boston, MA area and left thousands without power. This was described by a local meteorologist as a "robust" wind event.

It's always been this way. We just never noticed before.

[jayreynolds]

A "robust" storm dumped up to a foot of rain in parts of northeast Kansas today, causing flash flooding which left people stranded in their cars and homes and closed nearly all roads in Jefferson County.

Last Thursday 40mph sustained winds gusting up to 60mph caused extensive tree and power line damage in the Boston, MA area and left thousands without power. This was described by a local meteorologist as a "robust" wind event.

It's always been this way. We just never noticed before.
Thunderstorms in the Plains?
Preposterous, that could never happen!
---------------------------
July 8, 1950
York, Nebraska was deluged with over 13 inches of rain in 24 hours to establish a state rainfall record.
--------------------
June 1, 1941 in History
Event:
12.59" (31.98 cm) rainfall, Burlington Kansas (state 24-hr record)
---------------------
Thunderstorm winds in Masssachusetts?
It could never hapen!

4 THUNDERSTORM & HIGH WIND event(s) were reported in Massachusetts between 01/01/1950 and 06/30/1960.
Massachusetts
County Date Time Type Mag Dth Inj PrD CrD
1 SUFFOLK 06/13/1956 1557 Tstm Wind 73 kts.
2 SUFFOLK 08/10/1956 1330 Tstm Wind 62 kts.
3 NANTUCKET 04/01/1958 1830 Tstm Wind 71 kts.
4 SUFFOLK 08/08/1958 1700 Tstm Wind 65 kts.

[whitemajikman]

Thunderstorms in the Plains?
Preposterous, that could never happen!
---------------------------
July 8, 1950
York, Nebraska was deluged with over 13 inches of rain in 24 hours to establish a state rainfall record.
--------------------
June 1, 1941 in History
Event:
12.59" (31.98 cm) rainfall, Burlington Kansas (state 24-hr record)
---------------------
Thunderstorm winds in Masssachusetts?
It could never hapen!

4 THUNDERSTORM & HIGH WIND event(s) were reported in Massachusetts between 01/01/1950 and 06/30/1960.
Massachusetts
County Date Time Type Mag Dth Inj PrD CrD
1 SUFFOLK 06/13/1956 1557 Tstm Wind 73 kts.
2 SUFFOLK 08/10/1956 1330 Tstm Wind 62 kts.
3 NANTUCKET 04/01/1958 1830 Tstm Wind 71 kts.
4 SUFFOLK 08/08/1958 1700 Tstm Wind 65 kts.


Jay Of Course It Could Happen.......

But What Blows Your Entire Facetious Attitude out of the water is the growing frequency in which this phenomena occurs.......and not just in massachusetts but all over the world........

Do You Have a Self-styled Explanation For The Growing Frequency for such events......?

I Thought Not......

And I Think It Is because you care little for getting to the bottom of such questions and your focus is entirely on manipulating people into believing your own agenda........which basically is.....WHATEVER JAY REYNOLDS THINKS IS A HOAX BECOMES JAY REYNOLDS PERSONAL REALITY THEREFORE THE PEOPLE WHOM WISH TO INVESTIGATE FURTHER BECOME JAY REYNOLDS PERSONAL ENEMIES.......

NOT A VERY HEALTHY MENTAL ATTITUDE JAY........AND NOT THE LEAST BIT LOGICAL.......

WMM

[Boomer Chick]

Google Alert for: global warming





Satellite to provide new test of global warming threat (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8091)
New Scientist (subscription) - UK
A spacecraft that will reveal how rapidly Arctic sea ice may be thinning as a result of global warming is set to blast off from northern Russia on Saturday. ...


Katrina warns: Global warming on its way (http://www.dailyhampshiregazette.com/storytmp.cfm?id_no=100300642005)
Daily Hampshire Gazette (subscription) - Northhampton,MA,USA
In the news coverage of Hurricane Katrina, there is little said about its association with global warming. Even if this hurricane ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.dailyhampshiregazette.com/storytmp.cfm%3Fid_no%3D100300642005)

divided on global warming (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002534357_canenews02.html)
Seattle Times - United States
WASHINGTON -- A majority of Americans believe Earth's atmosphere is heating up, but they doubt that global warming is to blame for the deadly storms that have ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002534357_canenews02.html)

NOT GLOBAL WARMING BUT HURRICANE CYCLES (http://www.michnews.com/artman/publish/article_9738.shtml)
MichNews.com - Troy,MI,USA
Liberals once again are up to trumpeting global warming. So they go on their Ted Kennedy / Barbra Streisand mantra of frightening the world community. ...
See all stories on this topic (http://news.google.com/news?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&persist=1&hl=en&client=google&ncl=http://www.michnews.com/artman/publish/article_9738.shtml)

Sea ice melts to record low because of global warming (http://www.dominicantoday.com/app/article.aspx?id=5266)
Dominican Today - Santo Domingo,Dominican Republic
... Mark Serreze said that the loss of Arctic sea ice is likely to make global warming worse because more ocean is exposed to the warming effects of the sun. ...


Are Republicans willing to take this global warming pledge? (http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/3/2005/1481)
Columbus Free Press - Columbus,OH,USA
Republicans, before I ask you to take a pledge I would like you to read about the consequences of global warming, greenhouse gasses, and depletion of the ozone ...


MTU project looks for ways to reduce global warming (http://www.mininggazette.com/news/story/103202005_new01-n1003.asp)
Daily Mining Gazette - Houghton,MI,USA
... people are aware that trees help reduce air pollution, but what may not be as well known is that trees may also help combat the phenomenon of global warming. ...


Scientists Investigate Ocean's Role in Carbon Cycle, Global ... (http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/515047/)
Newswise (press release) - USA
Newswise -- With concerns about global warming on the rise, a team of scientists from the University of Rhode Island and the Hellenic Center for Marine ...


PNG submits plans to tackle global warming (http://www.abcasiapacific.com/news/stories/asiapacific_stories_1473609.htm)
ABC Asia Pacific - Asia
Papua New Guinea says it is keen to adopt a system of so-called carbon credits as part of international efforts to tackle global warming. ...
Brownstein: Hurricanes heat up global warming debate (http://www.thedailyjournalonline.com/article.asp?CategoryId=13303&ArticleId=198757)
Daily Journal - Caracas,Venezuela
... But some of them see evidence that global warming may be increasing the share of hurricanes that reach the monster magnitude of Katrina, and Rita. ...

[Boomer Chick]

A "robust" storm dumped up to a foot of rain in parts of northeast Kansas today, causing flash flooding which left people stranded in their cars and homes and closed nearly all roads in Jefferson County.

Last Thursday 40mph sustained winds gusting up to 60mph caused extensive tree and power line damage in the Boston, MA area and left thousands without power. This was described by a local meteorologist as a "robust" wind event.

It's always been this way. We just never noticed before.

Thanks for the weather report, FS. What do you mean "It's always been this way?" ? Yes, unusual weather patterns do occur now and then, and even the usual/unusual as in the flash flood type dump and the Boston 40 mph sustained winds in Nov.

If you want to say something about weather being newly chaotic, would you just come out and state it and perhaps post an article to back up your supposition that the weather has become more unpredictable and chaotic lately?

Better yet, if you have a supposition underline and accent its credibility with a scientific study on the aspect of which you comment.

What did we not notice? Little unusual weather events? GAWD! It seems once you start noticing the weather you notice all kinds of anomolies. And you can go back into the records and find them through the decades all the way through the centuries in a general climactic way.

:)

[foot_soldier]

The science community has been warning us for years that regional weather patterns are likely to become more extreme and more destructive as the lower atmosphere continues to warm and the upper atmosphere continues to cool.

I lived right in the city of Boston for 37 years and had never seen hail in my life until five years ago. Since then, hail has become an increasingly common occurrence there (colder upper atmosphere.) I had never experienced the increasingly frequent "wind events", either, and now they are also becoming a pattern, and a very destructive one. It simply isn't a normal pattern in the northeast to have these "robust" wind events ripping up trees and taking down power lines in urban and suburban areas.

Pattern is the operative word here. Things are definitely changing, more so in some regions than others, but weather events involving wind and rain are becoming more intense and more destructive by the year.

I know someone is always going to find "the one Tuesday in August 1903" that ten inches of rain fell somewhere in 24 hours or "the one Saturday in October 1954" that freak wind gusts tore the roofs off urban buldings. I'm not denying that. But that's not really the point here.


WMM wrote:
.....the growing frequency in which this phenomena occurs....... and not just in massachusetts but all over the world........
Exactly. This has been and continues to be well documented.

[Yaak]

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WMM

The growing frequency directly coincides with increased solar activity
(squared by the number of alarmists able to do Internet searches, then cut and paste the results on insignificant, kook-infested message boards).

[Yaak]

We should, also, take into consideration the human population explosion on our planet. Every time destructive weather occurs there is a greater percentage of human tragedy, because there are more humans. This tends to magnify, in our minds, the true proportions of these weather events.

[whitemajikman]

We should, also, take into consideration the human population explosion on our planet. Every time destructive weather occurs there is a greater percentage of human tragedy, because there are more humans. This tends to magnify, in our minds, the true proportions of these weather events.


Jason We All Know That "Yaak" is Just One Of MANY of Your Multiple Personalities..........Why Don't You Just Use "CydoniaQuest" or maybe "BUZZKILL"Other Members Of Your Dysfunctional MIND which you Employ each and Everyday on the WWW.

Now Do You Have ANY PROOF OF YOUR CLAIMS THAT YOU HAVE UTTERED IN THE ABOVE QUOTE .......? Because You Better Provide Them And The Scientific Documentation To Back It Up.....Otherwise Your Observations are BASELESS...........AND UNFOUNDED.......

WMM

[halva]

Not just dysfunctional Yaak but dysfunctional USA.

The Americans who are exceptions have to be heroic.

And also to know when to stop talking to people whose openly stated objective is to consume our time and energy purposelessly.

[jayreynolds]

[color=green]

I lived right in the city of Boston for 37 years and had never seen hail in my life until five years ago. .
8 HAIL event(s) were reported in Suffolk County, Massachusetts between 01/01/1950 and 06/30/2005.
Location or County Date Time Type Mag
SUFFOLK 06/06/1966 1500 Hail 1.50 in.

I suppose you were taking a little nappie at 3pm back in 1966.
Go back to sleep, dearie, it'll be all right.", said Mommy.

[Boomer Chick]

I've posted enough links for anyone to grab an article to support their observations, claims, or theses.


For one example of precipitation changes, I offer the Montana precip and the general western states within the last five years and as well a comparison from the dust bowl and now.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/tfx/tx.php?wfo=tfx&type=html&loc=text&fx=precipcomps

Actually, although the precip. has declined in the past 7 years, it seems that it hasn't dipped to the all time lows of the thirties dust bowl era. Similar in characteristics, it seems to indicate a cycle of some kind rather than a man-made orchestrated trend. Please post if you have data to support a weather manipulation program which influences precipitation in the western states. Generally, would a cooler upper atmosphere and a warmer lower atmosphere result in such lower precip. numbers?

Another question: If our nation had the covert ability to truly rule the weather over our continent, why wouldn't they choose to INCREASE PRECIPITATION in the presently drought-prone areas of the country?

[Boomer Chick]

Since we've learned that surface ocean temperatures directly generate and influence atmospheric air masses and thus all weather and climate, the most obvious evidence for climate change presents itself in ocean temperature anomolies.


Here is a recent map of global ocean temperature anomolies and notice that it includes warmer and cooler temps....... not solely warming.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/anomsst.shtml

We have determined through our study of the ocean temps and the Arctic warming trends that the Northern Hemisphere is generally warming in comparison to the Southern Hemisphere. Why would that be? The only other large influencing heat factor related to that global trend would have to be the Sun. Secondarily the production of green house gases might account for warming factors as the most populated fossil burning countries reside in the NH. Other factors might include planetary interior heat generation like vulcanism, but why only in the Northern Hemisphere?

The sun and greenhouse gases need not be exclusionary and an EITHER OR situation. The combination of the two could easily explain the anomolies and changes.

For every sentence I wrote, an article in the recent "Global Warming" posts confirms it or at least agrees with the gist.

:)

[whitemajikman]

Another question: If our nation had the covert ability to truly rule the weather over our continent, why wouldn't they choose to INCREASE PRECIPITATION in the presently drought-prone areas of the country?

Boomer ,It Is Because The People Guiding Your Nation Do Not Care About It's Own Citizen's because whether we like it or not They Are not True Americans But GLOBALIST's and GLOBALIST'S Do Not Care About Soveriegnty or Borders they are only concerned about WEALTH and POWER.......

One Example Of This Is The BUSH Crime Family Whom Have Built An Empire On The Backs Of WAR and PESTILENCE ........And Not Just Once .....But 4 Times Now........WW2,Gulf War 1,and Iraq And Afghanistan .......

Another Example Of This Is The Growing Realization That Israel Has Infiltrated The U.S. Political System and holds Influence over Both Parties Of the House including The President.

It Is These Types Of Characters who now Control HAARP........

I Also Think That It is Not Stretching The Truth By Saying That Haarp When Totally Perfected Would Be "The Icing On The Cake" For Any WAR PROFITEER........and "Priceless".


WMM

[whitemajikman]

Since we've learned that surface ocean temperatures directly generate and influence atmospheric air masses and thus all weather and climate, the most obvious evidence for climate change presents itself in ocean temperature anomolies.


Here is a recent map of global ocean temperature anomolies and notice that it includes warmer and cooler temps....... not solely warming.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/anomsst.shtml

We have determined through our study of the ocean temps and the Arctic warming trends that the Northern Hemisphere is generally warming in comparison to the Southern Hemisphere. Why would that be? The only other large influencing heat factor related to that global trend would have to be the Sun. Secondarily the production of green house gases might account for warming factors as the most populated fossil burning countries reside in the NH. Other factors might include planetary interior heat generation like vulcanism, but why only in the Northern Hemisphere?

The sun and greenhouse gases need not be exclusionary and an EITHER OR situation. The combination of the two could easily explain the anomolies and changes.

For every sentence I wrote, an article in the recent "Global Warming" posts confirms it or at least agrees with the gist.

:)


Because Not Only Are We Contending With Natural Cycles And Global Warming But We Are Also Experiencing The Effects Of The Haarp Experimentation which is Ongoing.....thats why the Northern Hemisphere is far greater effected......

WMM

[Boomer Chick]

Because Not Only Are We Contending With Natural Cycles And Global Warming But We Are Also Experiencing The Effects Of The Haarp Experimentation which is Ongoing.....thats why the Northern Hemisphere is far greater effected......

WMM

Well....... I do tend to be open to speculation on this, WMM, but I would not so presumptuously flatly and loudly pronounce it as FACT.

PLEASE..... post something to support your theory. How do the waves propagate heat? How do the waves affect the surface waters? How do the waves which use the ionesphere and interact with it....influence the troposphere where the heating takes place?

[whitemajikman]

http://www.superforce.com/email-releases/HAARP-Moon.htm

http://www.elfrad.com/Moon.htm

http://www.superforce.com/

http://www.earthpulse.com/src/subcategory.asp?catid=1&subcatid=2

http://www.earthpulse.com/src/subcategory.asp?catid=1&subcatid=8

http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/HAARP.html

Effects of HAARP

Earth is wrapped in a donut shaped magnetic field. Circular lines of flux continuously descend into the North Pole and emerge from the South Pole. The ionosphere, an electromagnetic-wave conductor, 100 kms above the earth, consists of a layer of electrically charged particles acting as a shield from solar winds. Natural waves are related to the electrical activity in the atmosphere and are thought to be caused by multiple lightning storms. Collectively, these waves are called ?The Schumann Resonance?, the current strongest at 7.8 Hz. These are quasi-standing extremely low frequency (ELF) waves that naturally exist in the earth?s ?electromagnetic? cavity, the space between the ground and the ionosphere. These ?earth brainwaves? are identical to the spectrum of our brainwaves.

The Creator designed living beings to resonate to this natural frequency pulsation in order to evolve harmoniously. The ionosphere is being manipulated by US govt. scientists using an Alaskan transmitter called HAARP, (High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) which sends focused radiated power to heat up sections of the ionosphere, which bounces power down again. ELF waves from HAARP when targeted on areas can weather-engineer and create mood changes affecting millions. The intended wattage is 1,700 billion watts of power. A former govt. insider deduced they want to flip the world upside down. 64 elements in the ground modulate, with variation, the geomagnetic waves naturally coming from the ground.

GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network) transmitters placed 200 miles apart across the USA allow specific frequencies to be tailored to the geomagnetic-field strength in each area, allowing the magnetic field to be altered. They operate in the VLF range, with transmissions between VLF 150 and 175 KHz. They also emit UHF waves of 225 - 400 MHz. The VLF signals travel by waves that hug the ground rather than radiating into the atmosphere. A GWEN station transmits circularly up to 300 miles, the signal dropping off sharply with distance. The entire GWEN system consists of, (depending on source of data), from 58 to an intended 300 transmitters spread across the USA, each with a tower 299-500 ft high. 300 ft copper wires in spoke like fashion fan out from the base of the system underground, interacting with the earth like a thin shelled conductor, radiating radio wave energy for very long distances through the ground. USA bathes in this magnetic field which rises to 500 ft, even going down to basements, so everyone is mind-controlled. The whole artificial ground-wave spreads out over USA like a web. It is easier to mind-control and hypnotize people who are bathed in an artificial electromagnetic-wave.

http://www.haarp.net/magneticeffect.htm

Tesla found that impulse duration alone defined the effect of each succinct spectrum. These effects were completely distinctive, endowed with strange additional qualities never purely experienced in Nature. Moreover, Tesla observed distinct color changes in the discharge space when each impulse range had been reached or crossed. Never before seen discharge colorations did not remain a mystery for long. Trains of impulses, each exceeding 0.1 millisecond duration, produced pain and mechanical pressures. In this radiant field, objects visibly vibrated and even moved as the force field drove them along. Thin wires, exposed to sudden bursts of the radiant field, exploded into vapor. Pain and physical movements ceased when impulses of 100 microseconds or less were produced. These latter features suggested weapon systems of frightful potentials.

http://www.padrak.com/ine/SOCWT.html

In 1997 the US Secretary of Defense, William Cohen, delivered a speech on terrorism at the University of Georgia. Reuters quoted him as saying, ?Precautions against unconventional arms must be intensified as potential terrorists develop chemical and biological weapons and electromagnetic methods that could create holes in the ozone layer or trigger earthquakes or volcanoes.?

Cohen?s admission reveals he has direct knowledge of such potential weapons. But it?s hard to conceive of ?terrorists developing the capacity to ?trigger earthquakes?. Hardly, when one considers the Pentagon?s HAARP project. A more likely explanation is that Cohen was warning against all