Photos: Boston, MA Summer 2000

[foot_soldier]

Taken with a 50mm lens from a 24th floor window facing north:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/450-img.jpg

[foot_soldier]

Taken with a 50mm lens from a 24th floor window facing north. The white swath from the lower left- to the upper right-hand corner of the image is a section of spreading aircraft emission:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/356-img.jpg

[foot_soldier]

Taken downtown in the Haymarket Square district with a 50mm lens at midday:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/445-img.jpg

[foot_soldier]

An especially heartwarming scene photographed with a 50mm lens from a 24th floor window facing northeast. The blimp was circling over a Red Sox game in progress that evening:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/396-img.jpg

[foot_soldier]

Taken with a 50mm lens from a 24th floor window facing north:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/422-img.jpg

[foot_soldier]

Taken with a 50mm lens from a 24th floor window facing north:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/453-img.jpg

[foot_soldier]

Taken downtown in the Haymarket Square district with a 50mm lens at midday:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/321-img.jpg

[gaiacomm]

Looks like contrails/exhaust/ice/, etc. to me!

[foot_soldier]

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=230890#post230890

[gaiacomm]

http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=230890#post230890


Good Data.

[jayreynolds]

Actually, all those pictures are ordinary contrails, no different from those you can see on airliners.net or any other aviation photo site.

At the same time as Deborah was taking those pictures and standing knee-deep in 'chemtrail" paranoia, others were actually going out and becoming able to actually identify the planes they saw using Flight Explorer. This use for the popular flight tracking software was my own idea, and it enabled many, including the science czar of chemtrailcentral,com, to break free of their nephelophobia.

You can see Nodebbunker, who is a recovered "chemmie", showing how to use the software on a posting made just after Deborah took her images of contrails:
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5071&highlight=#5071

Here is another question for you, Deborah.

Did you ever actually identify even a single plane you believed were spraying "chemtrails"?

if so, why did you never mention it?
If not, why not?
Inquiring minds want to know................

[foot_soldier]

The last 50 years' unfettered growth of the aviation sector and its *normal contrails* are changing the chemistry of the only atmosphere we have, a fact which is now well-documented in the literature. Reynolds and his loyal supporters (talk about a Cult) will never, ever acknowledge the depth and true status of this problem. They've spent at least five years meticulously obfuscating this issue and viciously maligning anyone who has the guts to keep bringing it up. All they have to offer on the matter is the same old patronizing schtick on how contrails are made of real ice crystals and how all those World War II planes really made a mess of the sky, just like we're seeing today tra la, which of course is supposed to prove that it's all perfectly normal.

To answer The Question once and for all - no, I don't "believe in chemtrails." What I do believe is that the aviation sector is causing significant, continuous damage to our atmosphere. And I also believe it is entirely possible that some degree of atmospheric geo-engineering is in progress for the purpose of mitigating by now well-documented aircraft emissions-facilitated stratospheric ozone depletion.

I forgot to include the most important part of the answer here:

I Love Big Brother.

That should just about cover it, don't you think?

[jayreynolds]

To answer The Question once and for all - no, I don't "believe in chemtrails."

Now, see, that wasn't so hard after all.

Bye

[foot_soldier]

How about posting the entire answer, you disingenuous creep:
.....To answer The Question once and for all - no, I don't "believe in chemtrails." What I do believe is that the aviation sector is causing significant, continuous damage to our atmosphere. And I also believe it is entirely possible that some degree of atmospheric geo-engineering is in progress for the purpose of mitigating by now well-documented aircraft emissions-facilitated stratospheric ozone depletion.....
Your interest in the truth of things extends as far as you are permitted to manipulate it to suit your own agenda, Reynolds. It's not surprising to hear that you and Crichton have become "buddies." His special brand of tripe is right up your alley.

[halva]

Raynolds makes plaintive claims to be 'buddies' with a number of people: Chem 11, Ross Gelbspan.

In the case of Crichton I doubt that the 'buddy' will be wanting to have much to do with someone as closely associated as Raynolds with the dangerous (for Crichton) subject of 'chemtrails'.

[jayreynolds]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How about posting the entire answer, you disingenuous creep:


.....To answer The Question once and for all - no, I don't "believe in chemtrails." What I do believe is that the aviation sector is causing significant, continuous damage to our atmosphere. And I also believe it is entirely possible that some degree of atmospheric geo-engineering is in progress for the purpose of mitigating by now well-documented aircraft emissions-facilitated stratospheric ozone depletion.....

Deborah, I didn't tack on the squishy-squashy bits because I want to spare you any more cognitive dissonance. We both know that the one idea conflicts with the other and causes you much pain. It's clear the squash is there to try and save face, I understand. I know how hard it was for you to stand up and speak the truth against all the others who will undoubtedly rain down holy hell on you for doing so. But after all, you did the same to Chickiedeb, so you knew what would happen already................

It was very good for you to finally become my public debunker buddy.
One day you'll understand how much this means to me.
bye

[foot_soldier]

Reynolds, you are one sick SOB in my opinion.

Sorry to be so blunt.

[halva]

Note how much of Raynolds' postings are gossipy personalised references to events years in the past.

He can't either generalise or see ahead to what is approaching from around the next bend.

[foot_soldier]

A side note here, and I am done with "gossipy personalized references."

"Chickiedeb" was an intelligent, observant person with whom I had several discussions in the summer of 2000. She and I were beginning to look at the issue of aircraft emissions-facilitated stratospheric ozone depletion when Reynolds got to her, no doubt via the same obscenely invasive "Wrath of God" e-mails he started sending, unsolicited, to me when I was working that fall on the issue of atmospheric perfluorocarbon pollution, specifically sulfur hexafluoride, which has a global warming potential thousands of times that of carbon dioxide. Unfortunately he scared the hell out of her as he knew just what buttons to push in her case. But this is ancient history by now and a great deal of information has become available since then on several matters about which people like Reynolds would rather not see too much public exposure.

Jay Reynolds is a shill for the oil and aviation sectors and everyone knows it. That he operates well beyond the level of simple obfuscation and disruption of public forums and has no problem invading people's personal spheres is also common knowledge.

[halva]

But this is ancient history by now and a great deal of information has become available since then on several matters about which people like Reynolds would rather not see too much public exposure.


This is where discussion has to be focused. On issues not being subjected to censorship that are at the same time inconvenient for anthropogenic climate change debunkers to see being raised. On issues that will enable researchers of such matters to exculpate themselves from charges of being complicit in a cover-up, so blame can be firmly attached where it most definitely belongs.

[jayreynolds]

[
"Chickiedeb" was an intelligent, observant person with whom I had several discussions in the summer of 2000. She and I were beginning to look at the issue of aircraft emissions-facilitated stratospheric ozone depletion when Reynolds got to her, no doubt via the same obscenely invasive "Wrath of God" e-mails he started sending, unsolicited, to me when I was working that fall on the issue of atmospheric perfluorocarbon pollution, specifically sulfur hexafluoride, which has a global warming potential thousands of times that of carbon dioxide. Unfortunately he scared the hell out of her as he knew just what buttons to push in her case.

Wel, now, Deborah. You simply don't know what you are talking about. I used to argue with Deb Phalen the same as I do with you. I never asked her to believe anything. I challenged her to prove me wrong and suggested she begin using Flight Explorer software to identify the planes she saw overhead. It took a full year for her to decide that she had been wrong to believe in "chemtrails". Since that time, she and her husband have been guests at my home. So your false allegations about me scaring hell out of her with obscene e-mails is just that, bullshit.

I've already challenged you more than once to publish any e-mails from me which you claimed were obscene or threatening- you could not do so because they don't exist, there never were any such e-mails.
But don't believe me, folks, ask her to show the e-mail for yourselves! She has my permission!

Yes, of course I did send Deborah some emails, and she even responded back. The email I sent her DID pertain to her sulfur hexaflouride. I communicated with her via e-mail because I had been banned from the messageboard at Carnicom where she was posting. The email sent to her contained information I had received about sulfur hexaflouride from a world-renowned expert in Europe, Manfred Maiss, and had relevant quotes from this paper, which is now online:
http://www.cigre-sc23.org/SF6/status2000.pdf

As you can see, and time has shown, that Deborah's hoopla over SF6 was just that. The levels of SF6 were already going DOWN, not up. This was valuable information, but look what she wrote about the e-mail at a Private-members only forum:
"Hi Everybody -
I'm feeling kind of shaky tonight and need to post this information in a private venue. I received a threatening e-mail today from Jay Reynolds. I have no idea exactly how he got my private e-mail address and am very concerned about that, among other things. I have never received an e-mail from him before.

I won't go into the details of the message here, but suffice it to say that the content was clearly intended to intimidate me.

The timing on this is interesting to me. I have been intensively researching the use of "atmospheric tracers" as "visual tracking" techniques for a number of applications. What got me started on this was the media coverage of the recent DoD/DoE study conducted in Salt Lake City for the purpose of tracking the atmospheric transport of a number of biological/chemical "simulants."

Here is the thread that explores that particular facet of this issue:

DOE Admits to Spraying Programs http://pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtrailschemtrails.showMessage?topicID=3518.top ic

You'll note in this thread that I focused on sulfur hexafluoride [SF6] and its release into the atmosphere over Salt Lake City. SF6 was being used as a "tracer" to "visualize", with SBIR laser and other instruments, the atmospheric transport of the variety of bio/chem simulants which were also released in that area. It is my opinion that the purpose of this and ALL "tracer" studies is to:

1) Track the "trajectory" of not only bio/chem agents, but atmospheric pollutants, radiation plumes from potential nuclear power plant accidents, etc. and

2) at the same time, refine the computer software/hardware [they are still testing it] that will eventually serve, for one thing, as the definitive combination for global monitoring of the above-referenced items for the purpose of

3) detecting emissions of all kinds from any given country on Earth. This "global surveillance system" will be primarily space-based.

Here is the continuation of my exploration of the systematic release of "tracer gases" into not only our atmosphere, but the ionosphere and the oceans:

Atmospheric Tracers http://pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtrailschemtrails.showMessage?topicID=3822.top ic

--------------------=>

I don't mean to push this on you folks - I know there is a LOT of material here. I want to tell you that I am EXTREMELY concerned about this for the following reasons:

1) Sulfur hexafluoride, while it is considered an "inert" gas as regards chemical interaction with other atmospheric constituents, is one of the most powerful greenhouse gases ever measured.

2) Sulfur hexafluoride has been determined to have an atmospheric lifetime of 800-1,000 years.

3) CO2 - Global Warming Potential - 1
SF6 - Global Warming Potential - 23,900

Question: Why is SF6 being so liberally utilized [over the last 10 years at LEAST] as an atmospheric "tracer", despite the fact that it has been classified as one of the SIX greenhouse gases that are now regulated by mandate of the EPA, the Kyoto Protocol, etc.?

This question will make a lot more sense to you once you have read the material.

I have a terrible feeling that the "global warming" issue with which we are now faced was caused, at least in part, by the pumping of this "tracer gas" [and other perfluorocarbon tracers] into our environment in conjunction with HUNDREDS of studies. When you read the reference to the NASA proposal to terraform Mars by setting off a "runaway greenhouse gas effect" through liberal release of SF6 and other perfluorocarbons into the Martian atmosphere, you may wonder what effect the release of this gas is having right here on Earth.

I have found a great deal of material today re: the terraformimg of Mars, starting with "warming it up" via release of SF6 to "kickstart a global warming effect" in preparation for eventual human habitation. This is NOT idle theory, people - NASA and other agencies are actively working on this. Actually, some of you may be aware of this already. What I am focused on is the release of these high-global warming potential tracer gases [AKA perfluorocarbons] into OUR environment.[NOTE FROM JAY REYNOLDS- THIS IS "MARK SKY'S" CURRENT "CHEMTRAIL" THEORY, THAT ALIENS ARE TERRAFORMING EARTH]

Back to Jay: It is interesting to me that I received his threatening e-mail the day after I pretty much finished the Atmospheric Tracers thread. For this reason, I am not going to be posting publicly for the time being. I do have a lot more material which I will be glad to post here if anyone is interested in pursuing this matter.

I don't mind telling you, I am extremely nervous about that e-mail. I spoke on the phone with a trusted co-researcher this evening who feels that "Jay" is not necessarily an "individual" but is, in fact, a government agency. It does not thrill me in any way to be involved in this kind of "adventure." I am serious when I say that I am just an old hippie/artist/mother who, for whatever reason, is finding myself literally driven to continue working on this issue. I don't particularly like the pressure, but I am determined get to the bottom of WHAT IS GOING ON WITH OUR ATMOSPHERE.

rArK - If you are reading this, our recent "stream of consciousness" exchanges on Carnicom have saved my sanity this week. I want you to know how much I appreciate that. Unfortunately, I won't be posting on that board until further notice.

As for the e-mail from Jay, I have been advised to do nothing.[[/b]
(Continued in next post)

[jayreynolds]

(continued from last post)

"Deborah
Senior Member
Posts: 45
From:Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 12-16-2000 06:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
rArK[MARK SKY-JR] -
Lovely to see you again, my friend...

I just read your post on Clifford's board under "Crazy Thoughts." It took a LOT of courage to write that out, in my opinion. You are one far-out dude/dad - heh heh.

Link to Mark's post, "Note from elvis lives..." on Page Five of "Crazy Thoughts": http://pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtrailschemtrails.showMessageRange?topicID=274 6.topic&start=81&stop=94

You're right, rArK - this is very deep stuff, once it's all together in one post. What you are describing is _exactly_ what is happening, whether or not any or all of it is "InTeNdEd."

Well, here's MY freekin' "crazy thought", which just this second came into my head: If this country could be manipulated into "forgiving" Mr. Bill for receiving BJ's in the Oval Office during business hours, I guess the stage is set for just about ANYTHING to be "forgiven." Up to and including near-destruction of the ecosphere, perhaps?

I personally think we've been subject to a massive and intentional "desensitization" project for the last 10 years at least, courtesy of Media, Inc.

As for posting of the e-mail from Jay, let me think about that. I did, in fact, respond, which turned out to be the right thing for ME because it gave me an opportunity to be a little stronger than I usually am in regard to opposition of his "flavor." It was a good exercise. If I do post, I would like to include the entire dialog in the interest of showing the whole picture. I would put it into a separate thread.

rEbOrAh

Folks, I sincerely encourage you to follow the link above to the thread called "CRAZY THOUGHTS", to see just what Deborah Stark said "is _exactly_ what is happening".
I assure you it will be an eye-opener into the thought processes this woman and her cohorts go through. They actually claimm that ALIENS ARE TERRAFORMING EARTH TO TAKE US OVER!
Don't believe me, read it for yourselves:
http://p211.ezboard.com/fchemtrailschemtrails.showMessageRange?topicID=274 6.topic&start=1&stop=20

[foot_soldier]

Jay Reynolds wrote:
.....They actually claimm that ALIENS ARE TERRAFORMING EARTH TO TAKE US OVER!.....
You are lying again, Mr. Reynolds. I have never said that let alone believed it.

I see you are going to continue to post 5-year-old material, just as you and your loyal supporters can't seem to come up with anything newer than 3-4 years old in the atmospheric chemistry and climate change literature departments to support your spurious, regressive agenda.

People have moved on, Reynolds. As one's access to and understanding of information are refined over months and years of committed study one can, and indeed should, be expected to refine one's perspective. I believe I have done this. Whereas you, on the other hand, remain committed to one, and only one, miserable goal.

I never thought it possible that a human being (sic) could be so full of pure, unrelenting hatred as you are. This has been quite an eye-opener.

Just out of curiosity, did you teach William Cooper your very special brand of psy-ops or was it the other way around?

***
Recent information on atmospheric perfluorocarbons (also known as "F-gases")

Scroll down to the following links in the left-hand column of this page:

Multisectorial Initiative on Potent Industrial Greenhouse Gases
http://www.mipiggs.org/index.html

"Fluorinated greenhouse gases in products and processes - technical climate protection measures"
17/09/04 The English translation of the 248 page report by the German Federal Environmental Agency published 20 February 2004. It describes the many technically and economically feasible f-gas substitution measures that are available now (1.5M pdf). A MIPIGGs summary of the report is also available (100k Word document).

New MIPIGGs briefing on the climate threat posed by f-gases
03/09/04 F-gases are growing faster than other greenhouse gases, and are far more powerful. Although they are largely ignored, the impact of F-gases will soon overwhelm any progress made under the Kyoto Protocol (87k Word document).

MIPIGGS report: "F for Forgotten - Why potent greenhouse gasses deserve more attention"
05/06/2002
Click here to download the summary document (160k Word document)
Click here to download the full document (1.4M Word document)

Excerpt:

F For Forgotten?
Why Potent Industrial Greenhouse Gases Deserve More Attention

by Chris Rose for the Multisectoral Initiative on Potent Industrial Greenhouse Gases (MIPIGGs) www.mipiggs.org, 1 Silex Street, London, SE1 0DP

June 5 2002

INTRODUCTION

Unlike the other main greenhouse gases (carbon dioxide, nitrous oxide and methane) F-gases have no natural sources. They are called "F-gases" because they contain fluorine.

The "F-gases" are sometimes also called PIGGs, or Potent Industrial Greenhouse Gases (for example by the Danish EPA), because they are much more powerful atmospheric heaters than carbon dioxide on a weight-for-weight basis.

F-gases or PIGGs are present in the atmosphere at low levels, and in most cases have only been produced in recent years. Their emissions are however rising very rapidly and some of the gases (SF6 and PFCs) persist in the atmosphere for a very long time (as do the greenhouse gases N20 and CO2).

HFC emissions and concentrations in particular, are rising rapidly. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) stated in 2001 that:

"HFC-134a is used primarily as a refrigerant, especially in car air-conditioners. It has an atmospheric lifetime of 13.8 years, and its annual emissions have grown from near zero in 1990 to an estimated 0.032 Tg/yr in 1996. The abundance continues to rise almost exponentially as the use of this HFC increases."

Increasing concentrations of HFC134a are shown in figure 4. HFC emissions in Europe stood at just 1% of total emissions in 1998-9 but increased by 66% in twelve months despite a series of one-off measures, such as at factories making HCFCs. (These are also a major source of HFC-23, as a byproduct. IPCC reports that the concentration of HFC-23 increased by more than a factor of three between 1978 and 1995.)

HFCs are being deliberately produced in huge quantities in newly commissioned and expanded chemical plants (see Section 3). Their uses include mobile air-conditioning, foams and medical inhalers which are all highly "emissive" applications. Uses of PFCs and SF6 are generally more limited and controllable although these are also potent atmospheric threats. One of the handful of environmentalists who has studied the F-gas issue is Jason Anderson, energy specialist with Climate Action Network Europe in Brussels. Anderson says that the "real battleground lies in HFCs."

In his (EU) study, Anderson states "In replacing ozone-depleting CFCs and HCFCs, HFC use in the EU is ballooning from virtually nothing in 1990 to 37,500 tonnes in 1998 and potentially 129,000 tonnes by 2012. They are used as refrigerants, aerosol propellants, foam blowers, and arise as by-products of HCFC-22 manufacture."..... (continued)

[halva]

I never thought it possible that a human being (sic) could be so full of pure, unrelenting hatred as you are. This has been quite an eye-opener.


To call what motivates Raynolds 'hatred' dignifies it.

Hatred is sincere.

There is nothing so unfrivolous in Raynold's little psyche.

[jayreynolds]

[color=green]You are lying again, Mr. Reynolds. I have never said that let alone believed it.

Well, publicly you have never said it, that's true. However, the quote above came from a private memebers-only forum at Chemtrailcentral , where you thought nobody would ever know what you said. You praised 'Mark sky" for having the courage to come out and say it in public. He is still saying exactly the same thing over at Chemtrailcentral.com, anyone can go there and see it. You won't deny that I have quoted you verbatim, because you know I have done so word-for-word. What YOU DID SAY was,
--------------------------------------------------
"rArK[MARK SKY-JR] -
Lovely to see you again, my friend...

I just read your post on Clifford's board under "Crazy Thoughts." It took a LOT of courage to write that out, in my opinion. You are one far-out dude/dad - heh heh.

Link to Mark's post, "Note from elvis lives..." on Page Five of "Crazy Thoughts": http://pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtrails...tart=81&stop=94

You're right, rArK - this is very deep stuff, once it's all together in one post. What you are describing is _exactly_ what is happening, whether or not any or all of it is "InTeNdEd."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Deborah is quite clear in that she refers as well as links to the thread wherein for ten pages "Mark sky" ruminates on his ideas that aliens are terraforming the earth with "chemtrails". Anybody that reads the thread can se it clearly, she even underscored the text when she stated:
"What you are describing is _exactly_ what is happening, whether or not any or all of it is "InTeNdEd".

I see you are going to continue to post 5-year-old material

Deborah, you are the one who brought up five-year-old material with the bogus accusations that I sent you obscene threatening e-mail. BTW, where is your proof of THAT?

You mean YOU don't have to show proof of your claims against me, but when I show proof of your whacko alien stuff, all of a sudden it's just "five year old material"??? Get a grip, Deborah, nobody is stupid enough to see you just got in way over your head and got slam dunked by the facts. It easy enough to see that back in 2000, you were just about as dazed and confused as any old hippie could be, what sort of drugs were you on???

I also note that five years after I sent you via e-mail the facts of the matter regarding SF-6 and how it's use has declined, you are unable to show any proof whatsoever that I was incorrect five years ago!

And you called it a threat! A threat to your hoax, maybe...............
ha!

[gaiacomm]

JR, we are waiting for cookies..also how do you explain my return? And Lance... you lose... you have been debunked...now they will just have fun with you...(smile)

[airtankerpilot]

Well I am glad you have clarified your stance on chemtrails. While I am not sure why it was so hard to get you to come out and say that you no longer believed in chemtrails, I am glad that you did.

But that does leave me with a question.

If you do not believe in the chemtrails conspiracy, why would you use small group of conspiracy theorists as a venue to air your concerns regarding pollution?

Why not take part in Greenpeace or groups that promote clean air and water? Conspiracy kooks are not taken seriously whatsoever, so your concerns get ignored. But if you used groups that at least get listened to and that have influence, you would get much better mileage from your efforts.

[halva]

Well, publicly you have never said it, that's true. However, the quote above came from a private memebers-only forum at Chemtrailcentral , where you thought nobody would ever know what you said.

Raynolds I am sure you will be winning a lot of hearts and minds here at Arianna's regurgitating five-year-old material from Chemtrail Central that was apparently not intended for you to read.

And it impresses me that moderators here who are able to throw Gaiacomm off (however temporarily) allow you to proceed without the slightest hindrance.

[foot_soldier]

February 2004

Keeping cool without warming the planet:
Cutting HFCs, PFCs, and SF6 In Europe
Jason Anderson
http://www.sdnbd.org/sdi/issues/climate_change/articles/keeping%20cool%20without%20warming%20the%20planet-eu.htm

Prepared with the financial assistance of the Dutch Ministry of Housing, Spatial Planning and the Environment (VROM).

Executive Summary

As the European Union and its member states finally start to develop strategies to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases, the importance of addressing new industrial gases is becoming obvious.

These “F-gases,” or “FCs” (HFCs, PFCs, and SF6**) have extremely high global warming potentials and are being emitted at a quickly increasing rate--projections indicate emissions could rise 150% between 1995 and 2010. (**Hydrofluorocarbons, Perfluorocarbons, and Sulfur Hexafluoride)

Fortunately they are largely replaceable by commercially available natural compounds like hydrocarbons, ammonia and CO2, or by alternative technologies and practices. Reducing F-gas emissions could make a major contribution to the greenhouse gas reduction goals Europe accepted under the Kyoto Protocol, at reasonable cost.

The Kyoto protocol’s first commitment period is, however, just an important first step. Analyses indicate that we must reduce total greenhouse gas emissions levels by at least 50% below 1990 rates within 50 years if we are to avoid dangerous anthropogenic global warming.

F-gas emissions are projected to continue growing rapidly beyond 2010, not least because many applications like foams or refrigerants experience most of their emissions upon decommissioning after a long life of use.

Left unchecked, HFCs, the most significant of the F-gases, could potentially represent 15% of all CO2-equivalent greenhouse gas emissions by 2040, and 40% by 2100. It is therefore imperative that policy be immediate in action, and long-term in scope.

Further, given that F-gases are synthetic chemicals with inadequately understood human health and local ecosystem impacts, we should invoke the precautionary principle in preventing large concentrations from entering the environment..... (continued)

***
For full paper click here:
http://www.sdnbd.org/sdi/issues/climate_change/articles/keeping%20cool%20without%20warming%20the%20planet-full.htm

[jayreynolds]

20/11/1999 - SF6 emissions on the decline worldwide

Surprising Test Results of the Max-Planck Institute

According to measurements of the concentration of sulphur hexafluoride in the atmosphere performed by the Max-Planck Institute for Chemistry in Mainz/Germany, the trend of annual increases in emissions of this ‘greenhouse’ gas has now been reversed.
Scientists had evaluated a value of 6,700 metric tons for global emissions of this gas in 1995. However, in 1998 these were found to be 4,900 metric tons only, a decrease of nearly 30 percent, the effect of which can be equated with a decrease in emissions of about 43 million metric tons of carbon dioxide.

Sulphur hexafluoride (chemical symbol: SF6) is a noncombustible and nontoxic gas which does not react chemically with other substances.

One of the physical characteristics of SF6 is that the gas 'swallows' electrons thus neutralizing them.

This makes SF6 particularly important for switchboards, switches, power lines, and transformers in medium-voltage and high-voltage engineering. In these installations, wires must be particularly well insulated from one another and from their surroundings to prevent the occurrence of electric arcs or short circuits.

In addition to the security aspect and the low maintenance requirements, the space saved – when SF6 is used instead of its 'competitor' air as a protective gas to ensure insulation and to extinguish arcs – is another major advantage. Far smaller switchboards and transformers are required, less material is used, and less space taken. As these plants can be constructed far closer to metropolitan areas and their industrial consumers, power losses can also be reduced.

However, many years ago, it was also realized that along with these technical advantages of sulphur hexafluoride and the ecological benefits of reduced space and energy, SF6 can also contribute to the ‘greenhouse’ effect – if it is allowed to enter the atmosphere.

Although this contribution was calculated to lie – even in the worst possible case – significantly below 0.1 percent, it was nonetheless considered advisable to focus the use of SF6 on closed loops.

One aspect of these activities is the Solvay Fluor und Derivate SF6 ReUse Concept.
Against this background, an ecological audit was performed in early 1999 at the initiative of ABB, PreussenElektraNetz, RWE Energie, Siemens, and SOLVAY which confirmed the ecological advantages of the use of SF6.

Test results recently published by the Max-Planck Institute were based on measurements of SF6 concentration recorded by a research station on the Atlantic island of Tenerife (off the Saharan coast) over the past eight years. Experts believe that the reduction in SF6 emissions is largely due to greater awareness of the relevance of SF6 for the climate. This has led to improved handling of the gas in 'closed' applications (e.g. in the electrical industry) and a reduction of its use in 'open' applications such as tire inflation and for insulating window panes.

[foot_soldier]

Taken with a 50mm lens directly overhead in the Fenway area behind the Boston Museum of Fine Arts at around 11:00am.

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/360-img.jpg

[jayreynolds]

Taken with a 50mm lens directly overhead in the Fenway area behind the Boston Museum of Fine Arts at around 11:00am.

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/360-img.jpg

Four ordinary contrails. They were most likely made by ordinary commercial jets following an airway, with the rightmost contrail made first, blown right by prrevailing wind shear. Each succeeding contrail looking left is less aged, with the most recent being on the far left and appearing as a defined line. The turbulent vake vortices which formed off the wingtips are easily seen. In all respects this is exactly what you would expect from ordinary commercial planes on a day conducive to contrail formation and persistence.

[foot_soldier]

Just another day in Normal Contrail Land:

Taken with a 50mm lens from a 24th floor window facing north. Isn't this fun?

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/455-img.jpg

[jayreynolds]

Just another day in Normal Contrail Land:
Taken with a 50mm lens from a 24th floor window facing north. Isn't this fun?
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/455-img.jpg

A single contrail, persistent, but not dense. Given that Boston is on the coast, and the prevailing winds are usually out of the west, it should soon be headed out over the Atlantic ocean, of no consequence to anyone.

Part of Deborah's Stark's duties during the fall of 2000 just after she took the above photo included copy-editing this website:
"Chemtrails Over America"
http://home1.gte.net/quakker/documents/chemtrails_over_america.htm#Investigators
This website, which Deborah Stark helped create, is a hodge-podge of every possible conspiracy theory behind "chemtrails", although it doesn't go into the ALIENS stuff. It speaks of barium, aluminum, polymers and oily substances, has graphics stolen from public websites without attribution, and suppposedly was created by NSA and CIA agents!!!![/size]
"Researchers assigned to this project have diverse backgrounds and are trained in and associated with a variety of disciplines including electronics, communications and environmental engineering, general medicine, biomedical research, chemistry, government/political, NSA/CIA, and military theory and technology."

DEBORAH STARK, it is time to come clean. Were there actually any CIA or NSA people who did this research? If so, you must reveal their identity publicly so that the people responsible for the barium-in-chemtrails hoax can be "outed". Will you have the honesty to answer truthfully, or hide like a sheople and take the blame for the ones most responsible?
This question will not go away, Deborah, like it or not. It will be repeated until a satisfactory response from you is forthcoming. Speak now and correct the misinformation you bear responsibility to correct!

Deborah

[foot_soldier]

For the sixth time -- I copy-edited the first draft of the report and submitted one paragraph of my own regarding the ozone layer, which is, and always has been, my primary area of interest.

Following is the extent of my original contribution to this report, and even this excerpt has been slightly edited from my original, very straightforward comment:

OZONE LAYER (TROPOSPHERIC AND STRATOSPHERIC)

There is great concern among the scientific community that the ozone layer has been very seriously damaged. We believe the reason for the damage has not yet been mentioned or addressed. Ongoing study of this problem by individual researchers is eliciting concrete evidence that, at the very least, the atmospheric chemistry and circulation of the earth’s atmosphere have been disrupted. There is a growing body of evidence to justify concern that there are serious problems with our atmospheric chemistry and our protective ozone layer above the earth. END excerpt.

I would make the same comment again, anywhere, anytime.

As for the website you claim I "helped create", that is not true. Period.

I don't know about the "CIA" or "NSA" connections of any people involved in doing research for this report. You know who to ask about that.

And if I may say so, the person to whom I'm referring was not only a very rewarding person to work with despite our occasional disagreement regarding certain issues, he was a good and decent human being and a true gentleman.

His primary focus concerned the development of the near-earth space environment as a platform from which to manage advanced communications and surveillance activities as well as the conduct of electronic warfare. We know this kind of R&D has been well underway for years now, so please don't insult people's intelligence by trying to deny it.

My primary focus was and is on pollutant damage to the stratospheric ozone layer, in particular the damage caused by repetitive insult to the atmosphere from aircraft emissions at-altitude and rocket launches. This damage is very well-documented in the literature so please don't try to deny it. I still think at least a percentage of those "bright white persistent, spreading, earth-surface heat-trapping, ultimately stratosphere-cooling contrails" being continuously observed over the last 6 to 8 years are part of a mitigation protocol intended to slow down stratospheric O3 depletion or slow down NOx-facilitated over-production of upper-tropospheric O3 or both. If you have a problem with that, too bad. You demanded an honest answer and that is exactly what you are getting. I am only one of many who think and observe along these lines.

All this "cloak & dagger" crap is just that - crap.

They've been ionizing the atmosphere over Mexico City for at least four years now in order to neutralize the region's very serious tropospheric ozone smog problem. China has been making increasingly routine use of cloud seeding in order to elicit rainfall over drought-stricken regions in order to maintain adequate crop growth. Titanium dioxide bricks and paint are being liberally utilized in the northeastern United States and parts of Europe in order to mitigate heavy NOx (nitrous oxide) pollution in and near urban areas. Several marine and terrestrial carbon dioxide sequestration pilot projects are well underway with the idea that excess carbon dioxide should be manually extracted from the atmosphere and buried. And so on.

All for the hell of it, I suppose. Just to garner funding. I think not.

[Boomer Chick]

Hello! 8)

Impressive stuff! Thanks for posting!

I thought you'd be interested in the Mexico City study slated for 2006 throught the ASP.

http://mirage-mex.acd.ucar.edu/Science_Documents/MIRAGE-Mex_SOD_040324.pdf

http://www.asp.bnl.gov/MexicoCity.html

Just wanted you to know that I read about the beneficial projects as well and understand that many are involved in the positive and humane aspects of aerosol studies!!!!

BC :D

[foot_soldier]

Boomer_Chick wrote:
.....I thought you'd be interested in the Mexico City study slated for 2006.....
I am definitely interested in this follow-up to the initial Mexico Megacity study. Thank you very much for the links!

Steven Schwartz's commentary on the ASP homepage is well worth reading. Also, this excerpt from the "Scientific Background" section is very instructive:

..... As is well recognized, the loading, geographical distribution, and physical and chemical properties of atmospheric aerosols have changed substantially over the industrial period as a consequence of human activities including energy production and use. In recent years it has become recognized that these changes are of sufficiently great scope, globally, to exert, in the aggregate, influences on the earth's radiation budget that are comparable in magnitude to the influences of enhanced concentrations of greenhouse gases. Locally in regions of high industrial activity the radiative influences can be substantially greater than these greenhouse influences.....

Am looking forward to reading about the MIRAGE study. Thanks again.

[foot_soldier]

Jay "I Know It All" Reynolds wrote:
....A single contrail, persistent, but not dense. Given that Boston is on the coast, and the prevailing winds are usually out of the west, it should soon be headed out over the Atlantic ocean, of no consequence to anyone.....
Actually, the contrail in the above-posted image was moving due south, right toward my window. I took five photographs of it, one approximately every 60-90 seconds. Note also that this situation was hardly limited to the presence of "a single contrail" but in fact was the culmination of an afternoon's loading of a previously clear blue sky with trail after trail after trail, all of which I watched spreading and smearing to ultimately cover the sky with the schmutzy mess shown here:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/454-img.jpg

[Boomer Chick]

FS, glad you appreciated the link. It was serendipitous that I had just visited that link mentioning the Mexico City 2006 study, and then saw your interest in Mexico City. Hmmm. :p

Interesting Ames research data-collecting experiments! Just browzing around the internet and found this one:

http://geo.arc.nasa.gov/sgg/AATS-website/fieldexperiments.html


INTEX - ITCT - ICARTT
In Summer 2004 several coordinated experiments studied air quality, intercontinental transport, and radiation balance in air masses carried across the US and over the Atlantic to Europe. NASA organized INTEX-NA. NOAA organized NEAQS - ITCT 2004. And Europeans organized ITOP. ICARTT was formed to enhance the synergy between ITCT, INTEX, and ITOP.

AATS-14 participated in INTEX and ITCT by flying on a twin turboprop Jetstream-31, based at Portsmouth, NH in July and August 2004. Its goal was to help characterize aerosol radiative properties and effects in flights that sample polluted and clean air masses in coordination with measurements by other INTEX-ITCT platforms, including aircraft and a ship.

+ Read more




EVE
The primary purpose of this experiment is to validate the over-ocean MODIS aerosol optical depth (AOD) measurements at 1.6 and 2.1mm aboard the Terra and Aqua platform. The primary tool for validating the MODIS AOD is the 14-channel NASA Ames Airborne Tracking Sunphotometer, AATS-14, which will fly aboard the CIRPAS Twin-Otter aircraft out of Monterey, CA. The timing of the experiment is chosen to coincide with the maximum transport of Asian dust to the US West coast, one of the few aerosol species with considerable AOD in the near-IR.

+ Read more




ARM Aerosol IOP
ARM Aerosol IOP
To gain improved understanding and model-based representation of aerosol radiative influences an IOP was conducted at the Department of Energy's ARM Southern Great Plains Site in north central Oklahoma, in May 2003. The IOP carried out a variety of closure experiments on aerosol optical properties and their radiative influence. Additionally, measurements of the aerosol chemical composition size distribution will allow testing of the ability to reconstruct optical properties from these measurements.

+ Read more




ADAM 2003
The Asian Dust Above Monterey-2003 (ADAM-2003) project is a surface and airborne observational field study to investigate the properties and effects of the natural and anthropogenic Asian aerosols transported to the west coast of the United States in the springtime. ADAM-2003 took place from April 1-30, 2003 based out of the Monterey, CA. AATS-14 operated onboard the CIRPAS Twin Otter.

+ Read more



SOLVE II
The SAGE III Ozone Loss and Validation Experiment (SOLVE II) examined the processes controlling ozone levels at mid- to high latitudes. Measurements were made in the Arctic high-latitude region in winter using the NASA DC-8 aircraft, as well as balloon platforms and ground-based instruments. The mission acquired correlative data needed to validate the Stratospheric Aerosol and Gas Experiment (SAGE) III satellite measurements which are used to quantitatively assess high-latitude ozone loss.
+ Read more



CLAMS
The CLAMS aircraft field campaign ran from July 10 through August 3, 2001. It wais a shortwave closure experiment targeting clear (cloud-free) sky conditions. Our AATS-14 instrument was integrated on the CV-580.

+ Read more


ACE-Asia
The first major airborne/shipborne campaign of ACE-Asia took place in March-April 2001. Both of our instruments, AATS-14 and AATS-6, were involved in the experiment. AATS-14 was integrated on the CIRPAS Twin Otter. AATS-6 flew on the NCAR C-130. Both planes were flown out of Iwakuni Marine Corps Air Station, Japan.
+ Read more




3rd ARM Water Vapor IOP 3rd ARM Water Vapor IOP
The ARM water vapor IOP was conducted to study lower tropospheric water vapor profiles at the Southern Great Plains site in Oklahoma. The emphasis was on the intercomparison of lower atmosphere water vapor measurements. Our AATS-6 took ground-based measurements of water vapor and aerosols.
Other website to visit:
ARM site for the Fall 2000 Water Vapor IOP



SAFARI 2000
The SAFARI-2000 dry season campaign took place in August-September 2000 in South Africa, Zambia, Namibia and nearby countries. AATS-14 flew on the UW CV-580 and measured aerosols and water vapor.
+ Read more



PRiDE
The PRiDE experiment was conducted in June-July 2000 in Puerto Rico. Our AATS-6 instrument on the SPAWAR Navajo was used to measure African dust, other aerosols, and water vapor.
+ Read more




2nd ARM Water Vapor IOP 2nd ARM Water Vapor IOP
The ARM water vapor IOP was conducted to study lower tropospheric water vapor profiles at the Southern Great Plains site in Oklahoma. The emphasis was on the intercomparison of lower atmosphere water vapor measurements. Our AATS-6 took ground-based measurements of water vapor and aerosols.

Other website to visit:
ARM site for Fall 1997 Water Vapor IOP



ACE-2
ACE-2 studied European and African aerosols in Summer 1997 near the Canary Islands and Southwest Portugal. The AATS-14 instrument flew on the CIRPAS Pelican, and the AATS-6 instrument took surface measurements from the R/V Vodyanitskiy. Please see a list of our ACE-2 publications on the website.
+ Read more



TARFOX
The TARFOX experiment included AATS-6 on the UW C-131A and the first flights of AATS-14 on the CIRPAS Pelican. TARFOX was designed to measure and analyze aerosol properties and effects in the US eastern seaboard, where one of the world's major plumes of industrial haze moves from the continent over the Atlantic Ocean. It included coordinated measurements from four satellites, four aircraft, land sites, and ships. The website has a list of our publications from the TARFOX program.
+ Read more

[jayreynolds]

For the sixth time -- I copy-edited the first draft of the report and submitted one paragraph of my own regarding the ozone layer, which is, and always has been, my primary area of interest.

This comment by Deboarh Stark admits to editing the report, and collaboration with those who claim to be CIA and NSA.

As for the website you claim I "helped create", that is not true. Period.
I don't know about the "CIA" or "NSA" connections of any people involved in doing research for this report. You know who to ask about that.

Deborah, Stark, you cannot be a copy-editor of a document, and then claim to have not helped create it. Nobody reading this is so stupid to fall for that. Even a fool can see that if you edited it, you helped in it's creation!

Deborah, in the same way, don't ask us to believe that you don't know who wrote the document, or what they said their qualifications were, or didn't care. You have already admitted to copy-editing the document. Your cohorts in the "chemtrail" cult deserve to know who and why you were assisting CIA AND NSA people to write this disinformation document.

THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MISLED INTO BELIEVING THAT CHEMTRAILS ARE BARIUM AND ALUMINUM BEING SPRAYED NEED TO KNOW WHY THEY WERE MISLED BY YOUR HANDIWORK. YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION.

THEY NEED TO KNOW WHO THE CIA AND NSA PEOPLE WERE WHO WROTE THIS MISINFORMATION. YOU KNOW WHO IS RESPONSIBLE.

YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED.

THIS QUESTION IS NOT GOING AWAY, DEBORAH STARK.

WHO WERE THE CIA AND NSA PEOPLE YOU WORKED WITH TO CREATE "CHEMTRAILS OVER AMERICA"????

ANSWER THE QUESTION!!

http://home1.gte.net/quakker/documents/chemtrails_over_america.htm#Investigators
"Researchers assigned to this project have diverse backgrounds and are trained in and associated with a variety of disciplines including electronics, communications and environmental engineering, general medicine, biomedical research, chemistry, government/political, NSA/CIA, and military theory and technology."

[foot_soldier]

Reynolds, your questions have been answered many times over, most recently yesterday, February 1 on this thread.

Perhaps your apparently limitless frustration could be mitigated by the knowledge that your particular God of Wrath is surely ready and waiting, on your especial behalf, to consign 115-lb. me to life everlasting in an unimaginably punitive physical Hell the tortures and perversions of which should be appropriate to the gravity of my crimes against humanity. With your hard-earned connections you could undoubtedly even see to it that there is no hope whatever of redemption in my case.

This should be a comfort to you at the very least and, at best, a glorious, nay downright transcendent, feeling of Divine Vindication.

At any rate I am done responding to you.

[jayreynolds]

The question will continue to be asked.
Name the names, Deborah.

For the sixth time -- I copy-edited the first draft of the report and submitted one paragraph of my own regarding the ozone layer, which is, and always has been, my primary area of interest.

This comment by Deboarh Stark admits to editing the report, and collaboration with those who claim to be CIA and NSA.

As for the website you claim I "helped create", that is not true. Period.
I don't know about the "CIA" or "NSA" connections of any people involved in doing research for this report. You know who to ask about that.

Deborah, Stark, you cannot be a copy-editor of a document, and then claim to have not helped create it. Nobody reading this is so stupid to fall for that. Even a fool can see that if you edited it, you helped in it's creation!

Deborah, in the same way, don't ask us to believe that you don't know who wrote the document, or what they said their qualifications were, or didn't care. You have already admitted to copy-editing the document. Your cohorts in the "chemtrail" cult deserve to know who and why you were assisting CIA AND NSA people to write this disinformation document.

THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MISLED INTO BELIEVING THAT CHEMTRAILS ARE BARIUM AND ALUMINUM BEING SPRAYED NEED TO KNOW WHY THEY WERE MISLED BY YOUR HANDIWORK. YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION.

THEY NEED TO KNOW WHO THE CIA AND NSA PEOPLE WERE WHO WROTE THIS MISINFORMATION. YOU KNOW WHO IS RESPONSIBLE.

YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED.

THIS QUESTION IS NOT GOING AWAY, DEBORAH STARK.

WHO WERE THE CIA AND NSA PEOPLE YOU WORKED WITH TO CREATE "CHEMTRAILS OVER AMERICA"????

ANSWER THE QUESTION!!

http://home1.gte.net/quakker/documents/chemtrails_over_america.htm#Investigators
"Researchers assigned to this project have diverse backgrounds and are trained in and associated with a variety of disciplines including electronics, communications and environmental engineering, general medicine, biomedical research, chemistry, government/political, NSA/CIA, and military theory and technology."

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Hi,

Since you all are into the F-gases. What is the global warming factor for HF as compared to CO-2 being 1?

IMHO,
is

PS: I will give a hint. The HF concentrations in the upper atmosphere continue to rise.

[foot_soldier]

Let's have some current information here on the issue of HFC's and perfluorinated compounds being emitted into our atmosphere.

By the way, the perfluorinated compounds are in fact classified as non-CO2 greenhouse gases for purposes of quantification and proposed regulation governing their continuing emissions levels.

November 2, 2004

Fluorinated gases and climate change
http://www.euractiv.com/Article?tcmuri=tcm:29-117491-16&type=LinksDossier

Excerpt:

(Euractiv) -- The Commission adopted in August 2003 a proposal for a regulation to reduce emissions of fluorinated greenhouse gases that are used in refrigeration, air conditioning systems and other industrial applications. The main elements of the proposal are provisions to improve the containment of these gases, better reporting, specific restrictions on marketing and use of F-gases in certain applications, and a phase-out of HFC-134a in car air conditioning systems.

Background

F-gases (hydrofluorocarbons or HFCs, perfluorocarbons or PFCs and sulphur hexafluoride or SF6) are new industrial gases used in several applications (refrigerators, cooling systems, foam blowers, electrical switches, sport shoe 'air soles', car tires and many others). They replaced the ozone-depleting CFCs and HCFCs in the 90s. The F-gases are non-ozone depleting, have a low toxicity and low flammability. However, because of their high Global Warming Potential (GWP), several Member States are considering legislation to monitor, control or phase out some of these gases...... (continued)

US EPA Fact Sheet
High Global Warming Potential Gases
http://www.epa.gov/nonco2/econ-inv/pdfs/highglobalwarm.pdf.

This chapter presents estimates and projections of high global warming potential (high GWP) emissions in developed countries from 1990 through 2010. High GWP emissions result from the use of substitutes for ozone-depleting substances (ODS) and five additional industrial sectors..... (continued)

(This is a particularly good reference and I hope people will take the time to read it. It's not that long and contains all the information you need to understand the importance of this issue.)

[Boomer Chick]

The answer to your question is "zero." HF is not a greenhouse gas. Also, HF gas contains no chlorine atoms, so it has no ozone depleting effect.

One of the major reasons HF concentration in the upper atmosphere continues to rise is, volcanic activity continues to rise.

--------------------------------------------------------------

From:

Impacts of Volcanic Gases on Climate, the Environment, and People

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/of97-262/of97-262.html (http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/of97-262/of97-262.html)

“Water vapor is typically the most abundant volcanic gas, followed by carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide. Other principal volcanic gases include hydrogen sulfide, hydrogen chloride, and hydrogen fluoride. A large number of minor and trace gases are also found in volcanic emissions, for example: hydrogen, carbon monoxide, and volatile metal chlorides.”

--------------------------------------------------------------

From:

The Sun Is Freaking Out

http://www.handpen.com/Bio/sun_freaks.html#Volcanos (http://www.handpen.com/Bio/sun_freaks.html#Volcanos)

http://www.handpen.com/Bio/volcanism_trend.gif

Great graph! Is this the sun causing the volcanism? I would make that connection!

Goes right along with the Hoagland theories as well! You know Hoagland, Richard C, the babe of psuedo cosmology?

:lol:

[jayreynolds]

Deborah. The question isn't going away.
The question will continue to be asked.
Name the names, Deborah.

For the sixth time -- I copy-edited the first draft of the report and submitted one paragraph of my own regarding the ozone layer, which is, and always has been, my primary area of interest.

This comment by Deboarh Stark admits to editing the report, and collaboration with those who claim to be CIA and NSA.

As for the website you claim I "helped create", that is not true. Period.
I don't know about the "CIA" or "NSA" connections of any people involved in doing research for this report. You know who to ask about that.

Deborah, Stark, you cannot be a copy-editor of a document, and then claim to have not helped create it. Nobody reading this is so stupid to fall for that. Even a fool can see that if you edited it, you helped in it's creation!

Deborah, in the same way, don't ask us to believe that you don't know who wrote the document, or what they said their qualifications were, or didn't care. You have already admitted to copy-editing the document. Your cohorts in the "chemtrail" cult deserve to know who and why you were assisting CIA AND NSA people to write this disinformation document.

THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MISLED INTO BELIEVING THAT CHEMTRAILS ARE BARIUM AND ALUMINUM BEING SPRAYED NEED TO KNOW WHY THEY WERE MISLED BY YOUR HANDIWORK. YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION.

THEY NEED TO KNOW WHO THE CIA AND NSA PEOPLE WERE WHO WROTE THIS MISINFORMATION. YOU KNOW WHO IS RESPONSIBLE.

YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED.

THIS QUESTION IS NOT GOING AWAY, DEBORAH STARK.

WHO WERE THE CIA AND NSA PEOPLE YOU WORKED WITH TO CREATE "CHEMTRAILS OVER AMERICA"????

ANSWER THE QUESTION!!

http://home1.gte.net/quakker/documents/chemtrails_over_america.htm#Investigators
"Researchers assigned to this project have diverse backgrounds and are trained in and associated with a variety of disciplines including electronics, communications and environmental engineering, general medicine, biomedical research, chemistry, government/political, NSA/CIA, and military theory and technology."]

[halva]

It detracts from the purposefulness of opening new threads if Raynolds is going to spam on all of them.

This is another argument in favour of ignore-listing.

One person can be assigned the task of monitoring what Raynolds posts.

[jayreynolds]

Wayne Hall, is it your intention to allow Deborah Stark to continue in the coverup of the truth regarding her involvement with CIA and NSA trained and associated persons as claimed in the document she has admitted to editing, and quoted above?

I would have thought you would seek transparency regarding her involvement with CIA and NSA people.

Are you in on it, too?

If you are not involved with CIA and NSA, as her cohorts claimed and she has admitted, just ask her to explain what took place, when, where, how, and by whom.

That is all I ask and they are reasonable questions which deserve to be answered publicly.

[jayreynolds]

Hi,Since you all are into the F-gases. What is the global warming factor for HF as compared to CO-2 being 1?
Jimbo, you brought it up and say you know the answer.
Bring it on!

[jayreynolds]

Hey, Deborah, I see your buddy 'Sore Throat' is doing his level best to bail his company out.
The guy is positively stuck in barium wonderland.
See what your CIA/NSA buddies got started withn their barium hoax?
How does it feel to have had a hand in misinforming poor old 'Sore'???
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7932

He does work for Merck, doesn't he?
Come on, the truth now..................in this and your CIA/ NSA connections...........

[foot_soldier]

Let's have some current information here on the issue of HFC's and perfluorinated compounds being emitted into our atmosphere.

By the way, the perfluorinated compounds are in fact classified as non-CO2 greenhouse gases for purposes of quantification and proposed regulation governing their continuing emissions levels.

November 2, 2004

Fluorinated gases and climate change
http://www.euractiv.com/Article?tcmuri=tcm:29-117491-16&type=LinksDossier

Excerpt:

(Euractiv) -- The Commission adopted in August 2003 a proposal for a regulation to reduce emissions of fluorinated greenhouse gases that are used in refrigeration, air conditioning systems and other industrial applications. The main elements of the proposal are provisions to improve the containment of these gases, better reporting, specific restrictions on marketing and use of F-gases in certain applications, and a phase-out of HFC-134a in car air conditioning systems.

Background

F-gases (hydrofluorocarbons or HFCs, perfluorocarbons or PFCs and sulphur hexafluoride or SF6) are new industrial gases used in several applications (refrigerators, cooling systems, foam blowers, electrical switches, sport shoe 'air soles', car tires and many others). They replaced the ozone-depleting CFCs and HCFCs in the 90s. The F-gases are non-ozone depleting, have a low toxicity and low flammability. However, because of their high Global Warming Potential (GWP), several Member States are considering legislation to monitor, control or phase out some of these gases...... (continued)

US EPA Fact Sheet
High Global Warming Potential Gases
http://www.epa.gov/nonco2/econ-inv/pdfs/highglobalwarm.pdf.

This chapter presents estimates and projections of high global warming potential (high GWP) emissions in developed countries from 1990 through 2010. High GWP emissions result from the use of substitutes for ozone-depleting substances (ODS) and five additional industrial sectors..... (continued)

(This is a particularly good reference and I hope people will take the time to read it. It's not that long and contains all the information you need to understand the importance of this issue.)

.

[foot_soldier]

The following current article is not reporting anything particularly new. The research described has been in progress for a few years now.

Leaving aside possibly distressing considerations as to why the prospect of modifying the atmosphere of another planet to accommodate human life might be a serious consideration down the road, and leaving aside stupid speculation on the idea that aliens might be modifying Earth's atmosphere to accommodate their ultimate presence here, the point of posting the following current piece is to show that if perfluorocarbon compounds -- until recently sulfur hexafluoride or SF6 and now the apparently even more potent octafluoropropane or C3F8 -- are the gases of choice for potential "warming" of currently uninhabitable planets (cold Mars in this case) because of their extremely high global warming potentials, then it stands to reason that increasing emissions of these same compounds here on Earth are not a good thing.

The fact that atmospheric concentrations of perfluorocarbons and hydrofluorocarbons have been and are still rising here on Earth has been previously referenced in this thread - and with current information.

February 4, 2005

Greenhouse gases could breathe life into Mars
New Scientist News Service
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6973

Pumping greenhouse gases into the Martian atmosphere over hundreds or even thousands of years could warm the frozen planet enough to sustain life, according to new research.

Synthetic fluorine-based gases could produce global warming on Mars while also creating an atmosphere conducive to life, say scientists at the NASA Ames Research Centre, California, US.

Conditions on Mars are currently inhospitable for advanced life. Temperatures on the Red Planet currently dip down to -120°C at night near the poles. And the atmospheric pressure on Mars is much less than on Earth as its atmosphere is thinner and its gravity lower.

In order to support life, scientists have proposed transforming Mars into an Earth-like planet in a process called terraforming. And a crucial component of this would be to warm up the planet.

The study found four fluorine-based gases that could be made of elements abundant on the Martian surface. Fluorine excels at absorbing thermal energy. In addition, the gas does not destroy ozone, unlike the greenhouse gases bromine and chlorine.

Runaway effects

Using computer models, researchers found that a gas called octafluoropropane or C3F8, produced the greatest warming in their study. The gas also worked well when mixed with other gases.

Adding this gas so that its concentration in the Martian air was 300 parts per million could spark a runaway greenhouse effect by evaporating the polar ice caps, which are composed of carbon dioxide. That extra CO2 - a greenhouse gas itself - would lead to even more melting and warming. This could help thicken the Martian atmosphere and increase atmospheric pressure.

But this amount represents 25,700 times Earth's annual production of fluorine- and carbon-based gases.

Cosmic vandalism

Some of the competing alternatives to adding gas to the planet would be to sprinkle sunlight-absorbing dust on the poles to try to melt the ice caps, or putting large mirrors into orbit to reflect sunlight onto the surface. But the Ames scientists said adding gas would be more effective than these options.

"Bringing life to Mars and studying its growth would contribute to our understanding of evolution, and the ability of life to adapt and proliferate on other worlds," says Margarita Marinova, the study's lead author.

But terraforming has many critics who debate the ethics of altering another planet. "In principle, it's something which is possible but which I would not advocate," says Andrew Coates at the University College London, UK. He works on the Mars Express spacecraft's ASPERA instrument, which analyses the interaction between the solar wind and Mars's atmosphere. "It's the ultimate in cosmic vandalism; at least until we completely understand the conditions for past or present life on Mars, and we are 100% sure that none is there now."

"These are 20th-century ideas on how to approach a late 21st-century, early 22nd-century problem," says Robert Zubrin, president of the Mars Society in Colorado, US. The new study simply shows that warming Mars in this way might be possible, he says.

Journal reference: Journal of Geophysical Research - Planets (DOI: 10.1029/2004JE002306)

[Insurrectionchemistry]

Greetings,

An interesting graph was recently listed by one Yaak, it follows:
========

From:

The Sun Is Freaking Out

http://www.handpen.com/Bio/sun_freaks.html#Volcanos (http://www.handpen.com/Bio/sun_freaks.html#Volcanos)

http://www.handpen.com/Bio/volcanism_trend.gif

===========


One would correctly suspect that volcanic and seismic activities are linked to the stress on the tectonic plates caused by expansion heating effects connected to global warming.

The most interesting portion of the curves above are the huge drop in the volcanic activity coinciding with the WWII devastation of much of the industrial age's industry in Europe. Less releases mean less heating.

The effect was so dramatic that it appears the 1945 WWII devastations produced a cut in industrial emission levels and took the curve back to late 1800 rates.

When noting this, does one conclude the Sun is the net effect on volcanic rates or the industrial emissions?

IMHO,
is

[jayreynolds]

Greetings,

An interesting graph was recently listed by one Yaak, it follows:
========


===========


One would correctly suspect that volcanic and seismic activities are linked to the stress on the tectonic plates caused by expansion heating effects connected to global warming.

The most interesting portion of the curves above are the huge drop in the volcanic activity coinciding with the WWII devastation of much of the industrial age's industry in Europe. Less releases mean less heating.

The effect was so dramatic that it appears the 1945 WWII devastations produced a cut in industrial emission levels and took the curve back to late 1800 rates.

When noting this, does one conclude the Sun is the net effect on volcanic rates or the industrial emissions?

IMHO,
is
Jimbo, what you wrote is so disjointed it makes no sense at all.
How would one conclude that the sun is the net effect on volcanic rates?
Makes no sense at all. Your medications are probably all screwed up.

No offense towards my buddy yaak, but the source of those graphs is one Michael Mandeville. Mandeville is currently predicting an economic collapse in 2006, based on predictions of Edgar Cayce.

He is an interesting character, but I wouldn't put much stock in the accuracy or significance of his graphs. He has multiple agendas, not the least of which are sales.

[jayreynolds]

The question will continue to be asked.
Name the names, Deborah.

For the sixth time -- I copy-edited the first draft of the report and submitted one paragraph of my own regarding the ozone layer, which is, and always has been, my primary area of interest.http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=233447&postcount=35

This comment by Deboarh Stark admits to editing the report"Chemtrails Over America", and collaboration with those who claim to be CIA and NSA.

As for the website you claim I "helped create", that is not true. Period.
I don't know about the "CIA" or "NSA" connections of any people involved in doing research for this report. You know who to ask about that.

Deborah, Stark, you cannot be a copy-editor of a document, and then claim to have not helped create it. Nobody reading this is so stupid to fall for that. Even a fool can see that if you edited it, you helped in it's creation!

Deborah, in the same way, don't ask us to believe that you don't know who wrote the document, or what they said their qualifications were, or didn't care. You have already admitted to copy-editing the document. Your cohorts in the "chemtrail" cult deserve to know who and why you were assisting CIA AND NSA people to write this disinformation document.

THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MISLED INTO BELIEVING THAT CHEMTRAILS ARE BARIUM AND ALUMINUM BEING SPRAYED NEED TO KNOW WHY THEY WERE MISLED BY YOUR HANDIWORK. YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION.

THEY NEED TO KNOW WHO THE CIA AND NSA PEOPLE WERE WHO WROTE THIS MISINFORMATION. YOU KNOW WHO IS RESPONSIBLE.

YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED.

THIS QUESTION IS NOT GOING AWAY, DEBORAH STARK.

WHO WERE THE CIA AND NSA PEOPLE YOU WORKED WITH TO CREATE "CHEMTRAILS OVER AMERICA"????

ANSWER THE QUESTION!!

http://home1.gte.net/quakker/documents/chemtrails_over_america.htm#Investigators
"Researchers assigned to this project have diverse backgrounds and are trained in and associated with a variety of disciplines including electronics, communications and environmental engineering, general medicine, biomedical research, chemistry, government/political, NSA/CIA, and military theory and technology."

[halva]

Spam.

[jayreynolds]

Spam.
Wayne, Deborah and I were having a conversation on this topic, which gos back before you ever heard of "chemtrails". This is relevant to the photos and contemporary to their time.

Wayne, the leader of Deborah Stark's group which said it included CIA and NSA associates was A.C. Griffith. He wrote this article, which is actually a summary of "Chemtrails Over America".
http://proliberty.com/observer/20010613.htm
Griffith is the man whom Deborah Stark refers to in this posting:
"As for the website you claim I "helped create", that is not true. Period.
I don't know about the "CIA" or "NSA" connections of any people involved in doing research for this report. You know who to ask about that.
And if I may say so, the person to whom I'm referring was not only a very rewarding person to work with despite our occasional disagreement regarding certain issues, he was a good and decent human being and a true gentleman.
His primary focus concerned the development of the near-earth space environment as a platform from which to manage advanced communications and surveillance activities as well as the conduct of electronic warfare. We know this kind of R&D has been well underway for years now, so please don't insult people's intelligence by trying to deny it.
My primary focus was and is on pollutant damage to the stratospheric ozone layer, in particular the damage caused by repetitive insult to the atmosphere from aircraft emissions at-altitude and rocket launches. This damage is very well-documented in the literature so please don't try to deny it. I still think at least a percentage of those "bright white persistent, spreading, earth-surface heat-trapping, ultimately stratosphere-cooling contrails" being continuously observed over the last 6 to 8 years are part of a mitigation protocol intended to slow down stratospheric O3 depletion or slow down NOx-facilitated over-production of upper-tropospheric O3 or both. If you have a problem with that, too bad. You demanded an honest answer and that is exactly what you are getting. I am only one of many who think and observe along these lines.
All this "cloak & dagger" crap is just that - crap."
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=233447&postcount=35

Folks, it has already been shown, by her own statement above, that Deborah Stark participated in creating the report, she has not and cannot deny it. She has likewise also identified A. C. Griffith as one of her co-collaborators, which, as a group, claimed to contain individuals asociated with the CIA and the NSA.

Griffith is pictured here:
http://www.clarkab.org/organizations/6925thrsm/griffith/03.html

The group which claimed to include CIA and NSA trained and associated people also included Kim Weber(Ohio), Diane Harvey(Arizona), Clifford Carnicom(New Mexico), "Sore Throat"(California), Julie King(Australia), Tim O'Donnell(Georgia), and other unnamed individuals.

I am quite surprised that Wayne Hall and fellow chemmies are not clamoring to find the identity and involvement of the individuals among this group who are claimed to have been trained and associated with the NSA and CIA.

One has to ask, therefore, who benefits by this information being withheld, why is it being withheld, why is Deborah Stark withholding it, and who is helping her to withhold the information?

If the CIA and NSA were involved, as claimed, why would they put out misinformation that is demonstrably false(the Barium and aluminum hoaxes)?

Since Deborah Stark has already stated she knows that what is being seen IS NOT geoengineering, but rather ordinary contrails, what reason does she have to hold back the CIA and NSA source of this disinformation?

All these questions are relevant, Wayne, they are NOT spamming, and one has to question why YOU have now also begun to participate in Deborah Stark's coverup?

HMMMMMMMMM??????????????





.

[foot_soldier]

CORRECTION:

Jay Reynolds wrote:

.....Since Deborah Stark has already stated she knows that what is being seen IS NOT geoengineering, but rather ordinary contrails,.....

That is not what I said.

This is what I said - and exactly what I meant:

.....To answer The Question once and for all - no, I don't "believe in chemtrails." What I do believe is that the aviation sector is causing significant, continuous damage to our atmosphere. And I also believe it is entirely possible that some degree of atmospheric geo-engineering is in progress for the purpose of mitigating by now well-documented aircraft emissions-facilitated stratospheric ozone depletion.....

Page 2 Post #12
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19486&page=2&pp=10

For the record then.

[jayreynolds]

CORRECTION:[/b]
Since Deborah Stark has already stated she knows that what is being seen IS NOT geoengineering, but rather ordinary contrails..
That is not what I said.

Tough luck for you, Deborah. Dona Terry already posted a quote of you from Wayne's "hidden sanctum":

"**RESPONSE: For some reason I have a feeling I'm walking right into the Jaws of Death here but so be it."
http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=80299&postcount=2348

Dr. Cornell's point here is that "laying jet contrails"
(in the upper troposphere) as a methodology to achieve a net planetary
cooling effect simply will not work as it has now been conclusively
determined that aviation contrails and resulting persistent contrail
cirrus actually exert a net WARMING effect on the atmosphere.

Note that she is not referencing the loading of the STRATOSPHERE with
particulate emissions, which is an ENTIRELY different matter.

I, too, am sick and tired of seeing, for the last five
years, our skies being literally STRAFED with shaving cream-thick
trails and resulting chaotically-spreading "cirrus". One thing I can
say here, and I think it's important to keep this in mind, is that
what we are seeing is taking place in the upper troposphere - NOT in
the stratosphere where the by now familiar-to-us-all Tellerian aerosol
climate mitigation proposals are specifically designed to be deployed.

Look, Deborah. You chemmies try your damndest to be all teflon slippery squshy-squashy, but you slip up once in awhile and the truth comes out. That's what happens when you become a liar but aren't very good at it. Even the profesional sort of pathological liars get mixed up, it's not necessarily your fault, it actually gives you a good opprotunity to come clean about all the lies.

THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MISLED INTO BELIEVING THAT CHEMTRAILS ARE BARIUM AND ALUMINUM BEING SPRAYED NEED TO KNOW WHY THEY WERE MISLED BY YOUR HANDIWORK. YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION.

THEY NEED TO KNOW WHO THE CIA AND NSA PEOPLE WERE WHO WROTE THIS MISINFORMATION. YOU KNOW WHO IS RESPONSIBLE.

YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED.

THIS QUESTION IS NOT GOING AWAY, DEBORAH STARK.

WHO WERE THE CIA AND NSA PEOPLE YOU WORKED WITH TO CREATE "CHEMTRAILS OVER AMERICA"????

ANSWER THE QUESTION!!

http://home1.gte.net/quakker/documents/chemtrails_over_america.htm#Investigators
"Researchers assigned to this project have diverse backgrounds and are trained in and associated with a variety of disciplines including electronics, communications and environmental engineering, general medicine, biomedical research, chemistry, government/political, NSA/CIA, and military theory and technology."



http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=80301&postcount=2349

[foot_soldier]

.....One thing I can say here, and I think it's important to keep this in mind, is that what we are seeing is taking place in the upper troposphere - NOT in the stratosphere where the by now familiar-to-us-all Tellerian aerosol climate mitigation proposals are specifically designed to be deployed.....
My point was exactly this: that what we are seeing is (in fact) taking place in the upper troposphere.

There is more than enough evidence to strongly suggest that a percentage of commercial airline passenger and Department of Energy-contracted private aircraft have been quietly dedicated to the task - in the troposphere - of mitigating NOx emissions-driven tropospheric ozone increase and mitigating greenhouse gas-forcing - by either running with a little titanium dioxide added to the fuel to offset NOx emissions-driven tropospheric ozone production or by "burning rich" (Benford, Reason Magazine November 1997) on high-sulfur fuel to offset heat-trapping greenhouse gas emissions at the surface.

As if we don't have enough of a problem with already ongoing continuous damage to our atmosphere from "business-as-usual" air traffic 24/7/365. Maybe that's what the bottom line is and nobody wants to face it.

I'm not lying. I'm just trying to solve this damned problem.

[jayreynolds]

My point was exactly this: that what we are seeing is (in fact) taking place in the upper troposphere.

There is more than enough evidence to strongly suggest that a percentage of commercial airline passenger and Department of Energy-contracted private aircraft have been quietly dedicated to the task - in the troposphere - of mitigating NOx emissions-driven tropospheric ozone increase and mitigating greenhouse gas-forcing - by either running with a little titanium dioxide added to the fuel to offset NOx emissions-driven tropospheric ozone production or by "burning rich" (Benford, Reason Magazine November 1997) on high-sulfur fuel to offset heat-trapping greenhouse gas emissions at the surface.

As if we don't have enough of a problem with already ongoing continuous damage to our atmosphere from "business-as-usual" air traffic 24/7/365. Maybe that's what the bottom line is and nobody wants to face it.

I'm not lying. I'm just trying to solve this damned problem.

Deborah, this reversion to being a chemmie is disappointing. There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER for titanium dioxide being put into jet fuel. If you had any, you would post a fuel analysis. BUT YOU DON'T.

If you had evidence of high sulfur fuel being burned to increase contrails, you could answer that by fuel analysis, too. BUT YOU DON'T.

Airplanes aren't simply set to 'burn rich' without somebody noticing combustion problems, engine lifetime decreases, or mileage degradation. If you had any evidence of THAT you would show it. BUT YOU DON'T.

YOU ARE SIMPLY LYING WHEN YOU MAKE THESE SORTS OF CHEMMIE CLAIMS

Debbie, this is the sort of thing you can openly post here, but get's you filed under 'loony-tunes chemmie' in the real world, and why you have absolutely no chance of making a difference there as well.

[jayreynolds]

Debbie, 24 hours and still waiting for all that evidence...............

[foot_soldier]

Ever heard of insolation management?

Do your own research. I'm through posting here.

[airtankerpilot]

Turbine engines do not have mixture controls

[jayreynolds]

Maybe Deborah has heard of insolation management, but the world's leading scientists studying the subject have already heard of the "chemtrails" hoax. When these scientists met publicly, neither Deborah, Wayne, or any other chemmie was there to state their case or show their proof. Anybody want to venture a guess where they were and what they were doing on January 8th?
http://64.233.161.104/u/tyndall?q=cache:0bfaR7rdT8QJ:www.tyndall.ac.uk/events/past_events/programme.pdf+cambridge&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

The truth is, Wayne and Deborah were BOTH REJECTED by Dr. Sarah Cornell of Tyndall Centre, after being summarily dumped on her by the Centre's director, Joachim Schnellenhuber.

Deborah has now run away from her past in a vain attempt to escape the future. I'm sorry she simply can't do the right thing and come clean about what really went on and the extent of her involvement with CIA/NSA associated people in the formation of the barium hoax.

[foot_soldier]

.....The truth is, Wayne and Deborah were BOTH REJECTED by Dr. Sarah Cornell of Tyndall Centre, after being summarily dumped on her by the Centre's director, Joachim Schnellenhuber.....

A lie.

I have never had contact with either Dr. Cornell or Dr. Schellnhuber.

What in hell is wrong with you, Reynolds? Your obsession with me is beyond unhealthy. It's becoming pathological.

[jayreynolds]

.....The truth is, Wayne and Deborah were BOTH REJECTED by Dr. Sarah Cornell of Tyndall Centre, after being summarily dumped on her by the Centre's director, Joachim Schnellenhuber.....
A lie.

I have never had contact with either Dr. Cornell or Dr. Schellnhuber.

What in hell is wrong with you, Reynolds? Your obsession with me is beyond unhealthy. It's becoming pathological.[/color]

Ok, I assumed that from the way Wayne had melded portions of text from his emails with her, and inserted text written by you.

It could be possible that I am mistaken. In her correspondence with me, she did speak of having converstaions with Wayne, and didn't mention anything about you.

I apologize for mistakenly thinking you were part of a conversation which Wayne published out-of-context.

Of course, that raises the question of WHY YOU HAVEN'T communicated with any of the world's experts on the subject?????? It really doesn't make much sense, does it?

I have always found it strange that you spend these years posting at obscure wacko boards like Carnicom or Wayne's 'secret activist' forum, when if your focus was really on geoengineering or ordinary contrails, you would be seeking an audience able to make a difference in the real world. Hanging on with these chemmie hoaxers, is it the only trick you know?????

Obsession with you? No, if I'm obsessed with finding out the truth, THAT you can blame on me.
Personally, you are small potatoes to me. I'd like to haul you out of this cult, but I know you'll have to do it of your own free will, Deborah. Your real value is that you still have a conscience left, of that I'm sure, and hopefully you can be persuaded to do the right thing and tell the truth about the hoaxers who have brought you down to where you are today. Some of them HAVE NO CONSCIENCE LEFT WHATSOEVER.

Now don't get all paranoid again, sweetie.
YOU came here and joined a message thread OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL, and YOU have chosen to stay here. If you can't hack it, why did you come???? Because your conscience told you to???

If you don't want to answer questions, by all means don't answer them. But don't come out all puffed up when somebody asks you questions about a report you have admitted to editing, Deborah! It's clear enough to anyone reading that you owe some explanations! You didn't expect to sweep it under the rug forever, did you? If you did, you weren't counting on a real truth-seeker like me, were you?.

YOU were the one that made the admission, YOU were the one that came here following ME.
YOU KNEW that I would be asking you questions like this, because I've asked them of you FOR YEARS now.

You need to look at yourself in the mirror and figure out what the hell you are doing, because I'm not going to stop asking, no matter what.

[foot_soldier]

July 9, 2004
Jet exhaust may be adding to global warming
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/nation/9115985.htm

HAMPTON, Va. - (KRT) - Next time you're on a plane, think of this: The plane's exhaust might be adding just enough moisture to the atmosphere to create a cloud and keep it floating.

That (high-level cirrus) cloud could stretch 1,000 miles long and 37 miles wide, depending on the weather and your flight distance.

Add that cloud to all the other clouds produced by airplane exhaust, and it creates a blanket effect - trapping heat that's radiating from the Earth. The end result: warmer temperatures on the surface..... (continued)

***
The following image demonstrates what Minnis is talking about. That high-level spreading cirrus was entirely produced by repetitive contrail emissions. I know this because I stood and observed this process in progress:

(Photographed with a 50mm lens at midday in the Haymarket Square area of Boston, MA)

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/362-img.jpg

[halva]

If you don't want to answer questions, by all means don't answer them.


Yes, that's a good suggestion.

Raynolds, if I respect and trust Footsoldier I am not interested in knowing whether or not she has worked with or for whatever US governmental agencies.

Just as if I despise and am disgusted by you it makes no difference to me if you are NOT a paid government agent.

[jayreynolds]

Yes, that's a good suggestion. Raynolds, if I respect and trust Footsoldier I am not interested in knowing whether or not she has worked with or for whatever US governmental agencies. Just as if I despise and am disgusted by you it makes no difference to me if you are NOT a paid government agent.

Hey, Wayne, as I give a rat's ass about what YOU think.
Ha!

Hey, but your fellow chemmies might want to delve deeper into what makes you so carefree about her involvement with CIA and NSA spooks, or people who falsely claim to be so connected. I just want the whole truth. It really seems to me that one of your biggest problems in life has been your gullibility.

I think you show all the symptoms of a person who is known as a 'mark'. Con-men are always quick to find people like you, they study human nature, as do I.. You are lazy, and want things the easy way, greedy, basically. Con men and hoaxers know that, given the offer of "something for nothing", greedy lazy people always put their hands out first, and simply aren't inclined to "look the gift horse in the mouth".
Rather funny that you are from Greece. Playing hookey the week they read Homer, eh?

Con men and hoaxers also know a few things about human nature which you display.
It's amazing how many get ripped off by hoaxers, and then their egos simply won't let them admit, sometimes even to themselves, just how foolish they have been. We see this in the compulsive gamblers who won't stop losing even if they must prostitute themselves and fall far down in the gutter doing the most unimaginable things, all to throw good money after bad.

Still, I think Deborah shows that she still has a conscience, even if only a tiny bit, left.
I don't hold out much hope for you, Wayne. You are too far gone..

[halva]

It isn't enough for Footsoldier to know that I don't care who she has or has not worked for. She also says that she has not worked for any of the agencies you mention. And I believe her.

Raynolds with your obsessive compulsion to turn everyone on our side against each other you are moving us in the direction of overcoming our deeply ingrained individuality and applying a collective strategy in relation to you.

[jayreynolds]

It isn't enough for Footsoldier to know that I don't care who she has or has not worked for. She also says that she has not worked for any of the agencies you mention. And I believe her.

Raynolds with your obsessive compulsion to turn everyone on our side against each other you are moving us in the direction of overcoming our deeply ingrained individuality and applying a collective strategy in relation to you.

Bring it on dude.
I've been waiting nearly a year now for you bozos to get your act together.......

[foot_soldier]

5/4/2004

The following (rules) have been composed and agreed-upon by Lib and Mike.

1. Making a threat against another poster or their family is not allowed.
2. Revealing information about a poster they have not posted themselves in the current AO forum is not permitted.
3. Threads whose purpose is to attack another poster are not permitted. That would include "Polls" whose obvious intent is an attack.
4. It is fine to attack another poster's point of view but posts whose purpose is to personally attack another poster or their family are not permitted.
5. Flagrantly breaking the rules or repeatedly breaking the rules will result in the poster being referred to Robb or Noah for temporary or permanent banning depending on the nature of the infraction.

You've gotten away with murder here, Reynolds. Do you have a special arrangement with the moderators that permits you to throw people's real names around and continually bombard them with personal attacks? I'm beginning to wonder.

[jayreynolds]

You've gotten away with murder here, Reynolds. Do you have a special arrangement with the moderators that permits you to throw people's real names around and continually bombard them with personal attacks? I'm beginning to wonder.
Deborah, we have known each other for five years now. There is no way that two people who know each other so well could carry on a converstaion for 11 months and not call each other by name. In case you haven't realized it, we have BOTH been alling each other by name since the beginning, and our friend Wayne Hall has called you by name as well.

As far as my attacking your ideas regarding "chemtrails", "geoengioneering", or climate change", or your willingness to answer for your actions and inactions, I simply can't see how asking questions could be considered a "personal attack". I don't ask you about underwear, your appearance, your family, or anything personal. I have been asking you about a public document in which you have previously admitted publicly to being a party to it's creation, as editor.
http://home1.gte.net/quakker/documents/chemtrails_over_america.htm

Within that document it states that the authors were associated with CIA and NSA:
http://home1.gte.net/quakker/documents/chemtrails_over_america.htm#Investigators
"Researchers assigned to this project have diverse backgrounds and are trained in and associated with a variety of disciplines including electronics, communications and environmental engineering, general medicine, biomedical research, chemistry, government/political, NSA/CIA, and military theory and technology"

I am asking you questions about THAT. You are dissembling and trying to ignore the question.
This isn't a personal attack, it is an attack on the idea that YOU HELPED CREATE, and I am asking questions about THAT, and about the IDEAS IT HAS ENGENDERED IN OTHERS.
FALSE IDEAS, IN MY OPINION.
And opinions ARE DEBATABLE.
DEBATE ENGENDERS QUESTIONS.

So, bring on the debate, Deborah, you came here to ariannas knowing full well you would be entering into a debate, the top of the page says so.

[halva]

Spam.

[The Shadow]

You've gotten away with murder here, Reynolds. Do you have a special arrangement with the moderators that permits you to throw people's real names around and continually bombard them with personal attacks? I'm beginning to wonder.
Deborah, we have known each other for five years now. There is no way that two people who know each other so well could carry on a converstaion for 11 months and not call each other by name. In case you haven't realized it, we have BOTH been alling each other by name since the beginning, and our friend Wayne Hall has called you by name as well.Dispense with the innocent routine, Mr. Reynolds. You are not telling the truth. In fact, you are a bald-faced liar.

It is a matter of record that on March 26, 2004 – without her permission – you first violated foot_soldier’s privacy on this board by revealing and linking her real first name to her AO screen name. Her real last name was easily connected as a result. See the very first sentence at http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15960 before you try to deny it.
Yes, I'd like to see the answers 'sore' and 'Deborah'(footsoldier)
It is also a fact that the next day and later, foot_soldier was still referring to her real name in the third person. This is clear evidence that she did not wish to have that information made public. Again, examine the third sentence at http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16069 if you are not in agreement.

If people like "Deborah" and "Sore Throat" are the idiots you claim them to be then I would think their input on the matter at hand would be meaningless to you.Note the quotation marks around the typed name “Deborah.”

You are also being deceitful regarding halva, Mr. Reynolds. In his post on March 12, 2004, he too refers to “foot_soldier” and “Deborah” as two separate individuals. http://www.ariannaonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6244

Footsoldier your last point is one that Deborah at Chemtrail Central Forum has been making for some time.
Mr. Reynolds, it was your incessant posting of the unwelcome connection that finally led to foot_soldier sacrificing her privacy.

Documentation substantiates that for almost a year, you have been breaching the confidentiality of people who post on this board – without their approval. The Diane Harvey hoax is a prime example of your willful disobedience of the AO Terms of Service. Even though you have been put on notice to cease and desist with your probing, you refuse to comply. Indeed, you are becoming more and more aggressive and confrontational. Your flagrant misconduct most certainly warrants action by the Moderators and will be brought to their attention.

[jayreynolds]

It is a matter of record that on March 26, 2004 – without her permission – you first violated foot_soldier’s privacy on this board by revealing and linking her real first name to her AO screen name.
Like I said, we've known and debated each other for five years. Neither of us could hide our identities during debate, even if we tried. Besides, Deborah Stark posts the exact same articles on two other boards we both visit. Perhaps you think I should be willfully stupid and not notice things like that, huh?

Look she wants to be an activist, activists are public persons.
Get over it.

BTW, the longer you and I converse, the better will be my own certainty of your own identity.
I've got a pretty good idea already, tho!

[foot_soldier]

Jay Reynolds wrote:
.....Like I said, we've known and debated each other for five years.....
This is a total fabrication.

For the record.

[foot_soldier]

To "The Shadow" and "halva" - thank you for your commentary.

[jayreynolds]

.....Like I said, we've known and debated each other for five years..... This is a total fabrication. For the record.
Deborah, chemiies have poor memories, but you know we were debating back on the original Carnicom board in 1999.

For the record, it is a fact that Deborah Stark and I were debating the merits of her "chemtrails" hoax during 1999 on the Carnicom message boards. I know of no archives to prove this, but also know that Deborah wouldn't deny it under penalty of perjury.

During 2001, we were both among the first posters to begin debating at Maverick's board.
Deborah didn't last long.
http://p090.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails22884frm1

During 2002, we resumed debate at Chemtrailcentral.com, where you posted the following in response to my posting in the forum. In your post, you referred to our previous three years association(2002-1999=3):

Deborah
Take It To The Limit
Boston, MA
447 posts, Jul 2000
posted 10-21-2002 10:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jay, you've distorted, twisted and manipulated everything I've said over the last three years. That is a fact.
My posting history speaks for itself. It is what it is. I say exactly what I mean and I don't lie to anyone. I believe my primary focus has been quite clear and very consistent. I've done the best I could given what I am learning as I go. I can live with that.

Your dissertation here is a bit overwhelming, to say the least.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030517125934/www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000003.html
=============================================

]Well, Deborah, you have indeed sunk pretty low this time. ALL THE OLD-TIMERS(throat, seeker,wisquakker,goldrush, etc) KNOW we were debating back five years ago. Yes you did run away for some of the five years, but we kept in touch once in awhile.

I know the whole "Chemtrails Over America" hoax you helped those CIA and NSA people cook up in 2000 is an embarassment to you. That is why it would be best if you and Don Johnson blew the lid on what really happened. Come clean, you got taken in by a bunch of fakers. None of it was true, and you know who masterminded the deal. Expose them for what they are and how they manipulated you into joining them, the ran away to let you face things on your own. They don't give damn about you. They have abandoned you. You owe them nothing.
THERE IS NO HONOR IN COVERING UP FOR HOAXERS
Sooner or later you'll have to face up to who you were involved with, and what you did- together.
You can't change history, it's like a bell whch can't be unrung.

This is what I was asking you three years ago, questions which still need answering:

unregistered
posted 10-22-2002 12:49 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deborah wrote:
"For the third time, Jay - my involvement with "Chemtrails Over America" entailed exactly this:
I did the bulk of the research for the ozone and the military sections of the precursor document, "Report #1", wrote the ozone section myself, and did the copy editing for the entire original Report. Period."
Well, so that is "everything"?

Anyone can review the "Project Report #1" Deborah refers to here: http://web.archive.org/web/20030517125934/http://www.carnicom.com/report1.htm

The text includes:
"We have outlined the general areas of science, military and government activity in
this, our Report #1. We have approached this investigation seriously and reported our findings honestly, to the best of our abilities."

So, Deborah, are you now saying that when the document you admit editing personally uses the word "we", that term does not apply to you? That is preposterous.

Your contention above seems to refer to this commentary by me, "What's really got your goat right about now, you sleazy woman, is the fact that you know you've gone too far, you've joined hands with all "The Group" and stepped off the cliff into the never-never land of "chemtrails". You've put your name on the lying website called "Chemtrails over America" that says it's barium, aluminum, totanium, or the whatnium of this weeks paranoia. Don't try to deny it, you prevaricating priss, you already admitted writing that stuff and plenty of people know about it."

Evidently, you think you can deny involvement with some of the unsupported and unsupportable elements of "Chemtrails Over America" by admitting to personally editing the precursor document "Project Report #1", the one that uses the collective "We" and claims that polymer fibers and Barium salts are being sprayed by commercial and military planes. But Deborah, "Chemtrails Over America" says exactly the same thing as the precursor you personally edited!

Ok, Deborah, perhaps some people can understand that illogic. I cannot. I see no misstatement on my part, no distortion, no twisting, no manipulation.

Again, I call on you to blow the lid on what happens behind the veil, all the lies, the exagerrations, the misquotes,the misstatements, the gullible lies and rumors you've carried for others, and said yourself. Tell it like it really is, Deborah, and set YOURSELF free.

If you do not support your group's false claims of Barium and Polymer fibers being sprayed, and want to drop chemtrails for contrails, just say so. While I could never trust you again, I guarantee I will do my best to let everyone know that Deborah has turned the corner towards truth by admitting previous lies.

Jay

[foot_soldier]

Taken with a 50mm lens on State Street, Boston, MA at midday facing east:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/369-img.jpg

[jayreynolds]

Taken with a 50mm lens on State Street, Boston, MA at midday facing east:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/369-img.jpg

I'm wondering who actually took this picture?
Why should we believe it's not just some faked up photoshop picture like Wayne Hall sent to William Thomas?

Ok, I went to chemtrailcentral and did a search, then found this text under the image:
State Street
Location: Boston, MA United States of America
Date: 07/24/2000
Note: Facing east. Photo #12
Author: censored
Category: Chemtrail/Chemcloud
Attributes:
Contact: chemtrailcentral@chemtrailcentral.com
Link: http://www.chemtrailcentral.com

======================================
Is the information I found at chemtrailcentral true or false?
Who holds copyrights to this image?
Your first postings on this thread make it appear that you photographed these contrails, based on your comments, and posted them beause you wish to initiate a discussion of them.
Did you?
Do you wish to discuss what this photo represents ?

[foot_soldier]

A close-up of the beauty shown and described in Post #38 on Page 4 of this thread. Imagine casually glancing out your window and seeing something like this.

Taken from a 24th floor window with a 50mm lens facing north just prior to sunset:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/imgdb/img/456-img.jpg

These are my photographs. They are documentation of conditions as I observed them. Period.

[jayreynolds]

A close-up of the beauty shown and described in Post #38 on Page 4 of this thread. Imagine casually glancing out your window and seeing something like this.These are my photographs. They are documentation of conditions as I observed them. Period.
I'm wondering if George Bush said that, could I thencall him by name on this messageboard?
Ha!

Get over it.
There is a name for what ails you. It is treatable.
==============================
Nephophobia
Fear of Clouds

Dead calm. They're on you before you feel them.
Flecked with them. Reek of the invisible
rasp, the livid trail. The sky's glaucous, blotched
with gleet. Creeping. Creeping.

Maggots. Slugs. Leeches. Pasty wraiths bloated,
leaden. And shifty--torpid turns turbid,
roils and spits, banks off into blear. Grizzled.
They're on you. Scuts, scuts spuming.

As the driven snow? as fleece? as feathers?
Sluts. Sluttish. On you before you feel them.
The brackish snuffle. Invisible rasp.
Slinking. Dissolute. Smut. Smut.
Paris Review #107, Summer 1988.

Nephophobia
Treatment
Symptoms of Nephophobia - Fear of clouds:
breathlessness, excessive sweating, nausea, dry mouth, feeling sick, shaking, heart palpitations, inability to speak or think clearly, a fear of dying or losing control, a sensation of detachment from reality or a full blown anxiety attack.

You are not the only one to suffer from this phobia. Most sufferers are surprised to learn that they are far from alone in this surprisingly common, although often unspoken, phobia.

Nephophobia is an intense fear of something that poses no actual danger. While adults with Nephophobia realize that these fears are irrational, they often find that facing, or even thinking about facing, the feared situation brings on a panic attack or severe anxiety.

There is a Way Out

Imagine what your life will be like when you know that you are not "defective". When you can be confident and at ease in situations where you used to feel your phobia. And when you can talk about your former fear symptoms as though you are describing a movie where the character is someone