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halva
04-02-2004, 03:54 PM
Given that the subject of dispute in the "It's not nice to Fool with Mother Nature" thread seems to have been resolved, I thought it appropriate to start a Climate Change further action thread.

halva
04-02-2004, 04:03 PM
Scientist renews climate attack

The UK government's chief scientist has repeated his controversial remarks that climate change poses a bigger threat than terrorism.

Sir David King's comments come despite recent ministerial pressure from Downing Street.

He courted controversy when he made remarks in an article for the American journal Science.

In the piece, Sir David criticised the US government for failing to take global warming more seriously.

"In my view, climate change is the most severe problem we are facing today, more serious even than the threat of terrorism," he wrote.

Relations risk

The government feared his comments could undermine relations with the US on terror and a Downing Street official wrote to Sir David asking him to tone down his remarks.

Now, he has told an environmental audit committee that he stands by his comments.

"Terrorism was a very serious threat," he said.

"But climate change could bring disaster to the world.

"Indeed it may take a disaster for the international community to treat climate change seriously enough."

Sir David believes that if carbon emissions are cut radically enough, serious damage could be avoided.

"If we don't do enough there could be floods every few years causing tens of billions of pounds worth of damage in the south of England," he added.

Sir David believes that a second Thames barrier needs to be built within the next 20 years to protect the city from rising flood waters.

Bonehead9
04-02-2004, 08:58 PM
So Halva, do you believe that the Earth's environment is in danger because of rampant capitalism?

halva
04-02-2004, 09:15 PM
This is a further action thread. If you want to argue, go to the other thread, but I'm not going to argue with you.

Bonehead9
04-02-2004, 09:17 PM
Who is arguing, I was just asking you a question so that I can understand your position better.

halva
04-02-2004, 09:26 PM
Find another teacher.

Bonehead9
04-02-2004, 09:33 PM
Find another teacher.

Ha, you hardly qualify as a "teacher."

Seriously Halva. you can't just C&P a bunch of stuff here and not not discuss the posts.

I realize that you are a little gunshy after getting beat up for over 73 pages in the other thread, but you can not avoid discussion.

So, what is it. is global warming a technical issue or is it a political issue?

halva
04-02-2004, 10:24 PM
This thread will become repetitious if you keep asking this question and I continue saying that I am not going to discuss it. You do not wish to discuss further climate change action but want to introduce input of your own as preliminary to an uninteresting argument.

Go to the other thread if you refuse to go away more comprehensively.

Bonehead9
04-02-2004, 10:31 PM
This thread will become repetitious if you keep asking this question and I continue saying that I am not going to discuss it. You do not wish to discuss further climate change action but want to introduce input of your own as preliminary to an uninteresting argument.

Go to the other thread if you refuse to go away more comprehensively.

I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that I am asking you questions. If you don't like it, start your own forum.

Join Arianna and other guests in a lively, ongoing, and non-obscenity laced debate of the issues.

You posted an issue, I intend to discuss it.

Bonehead9
04-02-2004, 10:44 PM
Back to the topic.

Halva, do you think that the solution to global warming is a technical one or is it a political one?

(assuming that anthropogenic global warming is in fact, real. The jury is still out on that.)

halva
04-03-2004, 01:04 AM
My concern is with the political aspects of the issue.

Just as I do not if I can possibly help it discuss climate change with people who think it less important than the proletarian class struggle so I do not discuss it with those who think the survival of capitalism is more important than the survival of the planet.

This is absolutely my last word with you on this thread.

Unless you can find someone else to play with you here you can talk to yourself.

halva
04-03-2004, 01:08 AM
Repetition deleted.

gaiacomm
04-03-2004, 02:17 AM
Bonhead:

Stay over here with us and leave Halva alone!

You belong with us over here..so come back here...don't muddle up this thread with your ignorance!

You do not need to respond to this!

Halva, Good luck with this new discussion!

halva
04-03-2004, 03:26 AM
This article by George Mitralias is a vanguard expression of mobilisable activist thinking in Greece on the subject of climatic change: a snapshot of where the mind of this milieu is currently at.

Mitralias and Sklavounos are members of an ecological action group in which I also participate. The geoengineering/chemtrails input is now part of the content of the group's discussion. The attitude of most of the activists in the group to it remains somewhat hesitant.

The name of the group is OIKIA (the Ecological Movement of Athens).

Climatic Change
The Pentagon Report and the Greek Left

By Giorgos Mitralias and Gerasimos Sklavounos

The Pentagon report on climatic changes and their cataclysmic consequences, published by the English ‘Observer’ newspaper and reprinted by dozens of newspapers throughout the world (including a number of Greek newspapers) justifiably had a significant impact not so much because it revealed something staggeringly new but rather for four other reasons: a) because it comes from the heart of the American military establishment, b) because it was studiously buried by President Bush and his collaborators, c) because its content comes into total contradiction with the environmental policy of the White House, and d) because it overturns the priorities of American policy, identifying the consequences of climatic change as the foremost and greatest threat to the ‘national security of the USA’.

For start, what impresses is the identity of the authors and their mentor, who is not just anybody. He is the genuine brains of American foreign and defence policy of the last three decades, Andrew Marshall (82 years of age), who commissioned it, and is also the guiding light of the Pentagon’s all-powerful Office of Net Assessment and at the same time the strongman of the Bush government’s military options. As for its authors, their biography speaks for itself. Peter Schwarz is a CIA agent but above all the former planning head of the big multinational oil company shell, and Doug Randall is a prominent executive of Global Business Network, which promotes the interests of American industrialists (particularly in California) at the World Trade Organization.

Given the identity of the authors, who express the views of the elite of the American capitalist establishment, the second point which impresses is the content of the report and the categorical statements of the report. The (logical) conclusion is simple: when this establishment of the international superpower – or even a section of it – does not merely press the emergency button but proceeds to extract conclusions, proposing overturn of the priorities of planetary politics, this is a fact which no-one can ignore. Specifically, when the report goes so far as to say that ‘a scenario of imminent catastrophic climate change could well undermine the security of the United States’, given that it ‘is an unprecedented threat against national security because there is no enemy we can point our weapons at and we have no capacity to control this threat,’ then we have not merely one more, the newest, confirmation of the seriousness of the dangers entailed by runaway climatic change but also something more: the immediate obligation of the Left and the social movements to include in their strategic calculations the emergent willingness of American imperialism to ‘confront’ the problem in its own barbaric way.

And at this point there is a first sobering finding to be revealed. Although we are at the climax of the pre-election showdown in our country, the Greek Left betrays a total ignorance not only of the mother of all problems: global warming and its nightmarish consequences for the planet and its inhabitants but also the policies being adopted by its class enemy (at both international and national level) to deal with it. We hasten to add that the consequences of this (long-term) backwardness could prove fatal for the Left, at many different levels. For a start, because it deprives it of the ability to intervene with its own analyses and above all its own alternative proposals and movement actions in relation to what is already happening in front of our eyes: desertification, droughts, floods, heat waves and other ‘unprecedented disasters’ (in reality extreme climatic phenomena) which with ever greater frequency befall our country. The result is pitiful: while the social and economic cost of these ‘extreme climatic phenomena’ becomes increasingly unbearable, creating a chronic political problem, the Left leaves the two-headed monster of Greek neo-liberalism free to shrug off its (criminal) responsibility and at the same time to unload onto the shoulders of the weakest sectors of society the cost of the ‘natural’ disasters. But this is not all. Permanently ignoring what should be its privileged terrain of action, the Left loses an unprecedented historic opportunity to place actively in question the ideological hegemony of its opponent and at the same time take upon itself its own historical tasks. And this is so for a very simple and easily comprehensible reason: because the greenhouse phenomenon, global warming and climatic change are by their nature insusceptible of solution without an overturn of the prevailing economic system that is causing them.

To give just one example: given that we have to do with a threat which knows neither customs controls nor borders, for the first time in human history there is posed not only objectively but also more urgently and self-evidently than ever for billions of our fellow human beings the question international (European, global) democratic economic planning for the sake of averting the imminent disaster. Which means that together with that there is posed imperceptibly, and in front of huge audiences, the number one question of human emancipation: who decides, and how? To give an answer not only to Rosa Luxemburg’s well-known dilemma of ‘socialism or barbarism’ but also to the literally existential question ‘eco-socialism or extinction of the human race’ of our nightmarish neo-liberal times…

halva
04-03-2004, 03:53 AM
Liakopoulos, if you want to read the text in Greek, it is at:

http://www.epohi.gr/mitralias_sklavounos_enviroment_social_2922004.htm

jayreynolds
04-03-2004, 06:36 AM
halva has tried to run away and start a new thread!
What a joke.
Yes, bonehead is right, this forum was created by Mrs Arianna Huffington for DEBATE, and it's debate you'll get, Wayne Hall, like it or not!

First of all, did you even read the actual report, Wayne?
No?
I thought so.

What you read, and what you copy/paste is not the actual report itself, but a third hand(and third rate) essay by a greek communist with an axe to grind. There is not even a link to the report.
I WONDER WHY YOU DON"T WANT PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY READ IT????

Always best to go to the primary source, I say. Let's see what the author of the report himself has to sayat his website:

Abrupt Climate Change

Peter Schwartz, Doug Randall
February 2004


"The purpose of this report is to imagine the unthinkable—to push the boundaries of current research on climate change so we may better understand the potential implications on United States national security.

We have interviewed leading climate change scientists, conducted additional research, and reviewed several iterations of the scenario with these experts. The scientists support this project, but caution that the scenario depicted is extreme in two fundamental ways. First, they suggest the occurrences we outline would most likely happen in a few regions, rather than globally. Second, they say the magnitude of the event may be considerably smaller.

We have created a climate change scenario that although not the most likely, is plausible, and would challenge United States national security in ways that should be considered immediately."

This public report, prepared by GBN for the Department of Defense, has been the subject of several news stories. Fortune magazine excerpted the report in its Feb. 9, 2004, issue ("The Pentagon's Weather Nightmare," by David Stipp). The actual report, titled "An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United States National Security," was written by Peter Schwartz (GBN chairman) and Doug Randall (co-head of GBN's consulting practice) and is attached here in its PDF version."

The authors conclude:

"Contrary to some recent media coverage, the report was not secret, suppressed, or predictive."

You will find a link to the actual report, and the author's text above, right here:
http://www.gbn.org/ArticleDisplayServlet.srv?aid=26231

So, tell us, bonehead, I think you have read the actual report. Do you have any idea why halva and his "proletarian class struggle" type buddies
wouldn't want you to read the actual report? halva, chime in here and asnwer, if you dare!

gaiacomm
04-03-2004, 09:10 AM
An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United
States National Security
October 2003
By Peter Schwartz and Doug Randall
Imagining the Unthinkable
The purpose of this report is to imagine the unthinkable – to push the boundaries of current
research on climate change so we may better understand the potential implications on United
States national security.
We have interviewed leading climate change scientists, conducted additional research, and
reviewed several iterations of the scenario with these experts. The scientists support this
project, but caution that the scenario depicted is extreme in two fundamental ways. First,
they suggest the occurrences we outline would most likely happen in a few regions, rather
than on globally. Second, they say the magnitude of the event may be considerably smaller.
We have created a climate change scenario that although not the most likely, is plausible, and
would challenge United States national security in ways that should be considered
immediately.
Executive Summary
There is substantial evidence to indicate that significant global warming will occur
during the 21st century. Because changes have been gradual so far, and are projected
to be similarly gradual in the future, the effects of global warming have the potential
to be manageable for most nations. Recent research, however, suggests that there is a
possibility that this gradual global warming could lead to a relatively abrupt slowing
of the ocean’s thermohaline conveyor, which could lead to harsher winter weather
conditions, sharply reduced soil moisture, and more intense winds in certain regions
that currently provide a significant fraction of the world’s food production. With
inadequate preparation, the result could be a significant drop in the human carrying
capacity of the Earth’s environment.
The research suggests that once temperature rises above some threshold, adverse
weather conditions could develop relatively abruptly, with persistent changes in the
atmospheric circulation causing drops in some regions of 5-10 degrees Fahrenheit in
a single decade. Paleoclimatic evidence suggests that altered climatic patterns could
last for as much as a century, as they did when the ocean conveyor collapsed 8,200
years ago, or, at the extreme, could last as long as 1,000 years as they did during the
Younger Dryas, which began about 12,700 years ago.
Abrupt Climate Change 2
In this report, as an alternative to the scenarios of gradual climatic warming that are
so common, we outline an abrupt climate change scenario patterned after the 100-
year event that occurred about 8,200 years ago. This abrupt change scenario is
characterized by the following conditions:
· Annual average temperatures drop by up to 5 degrees Fahrenheit over Asia
and North America and 6 degrees Fahrenheit in northern Europe
· Annual average temperatures increase by up to 4 degrees Fahrenheit in key
areas throughout Australia, South America, and southern Africa.
· Drought persists for most of the decade in critical agricultural regions and in
the water resource regions for major population centers in Europe and eastern
North America.
· Winter storms and winds intensify, amplifying the impacts of the changes.
Western Europe and the North Pacific experience enhanced winds.
The report explores how such an abrupt climate change scenario could potentially
de-stabilize the geo-political environment, leading to skirmishes, battles, and even
war due to resource constraints such as:
1) Food shortages due to decreases in net global agricultural production
2) Decreased availability and quality of fresh water in key regions due to shifted
precipitation patters, causing more frequent floods and droughts
3) Disrupted access to energy supplies due to extensive sea ice and storminess
As global and local carrying capacities are reduced, tensions could mount around the
world, leading to two fundamental strategies: defensive and offensive. Nations with
the resources to do so may build virtual fortresses around their countries, preserving
resources for themselves. Less fortunate nations especially those with ancient
enmities with their neighbors, may initiate in struggles for access to food, clean
water, or energy. Unlikely alliances could be formed as defense priorities shift and
the goal is resources for survival rather than religion, ideology, or national honor.
This scenario poses new challenges for the United States, and suggests several steps
to be taken:
· Improve predictive climate models to allow investigation of a wider range of
scenarios and to anticipate how and where changes could occur
· Assemble comprehensive predictive models of the potential impacts of abrupt
climate change to improve projections of how climate could influence food,
water, and energy
· Create vulnerability metrics to anticipate which countries are most vulnerable
to climate change and therefore, could contribute materially to an increasingly
disorderly and potentially violent world.
Abrupt Climate Change 3
· Identify no-regrets strategies such as enhancing capabilities for water
management
· Rehearse adaptive responses
· Explore local implications
· Explore geo-engineering options that control the climate.
There are some indications today that global warming has reached the threshold
where the thermohaline circulation could start to be significantly impacted. These
indications include observations documenting that the North Atlantic is increasingly
being freshened by melting glaciers, increased precipitation, and fresh water runoff
making it substantially less salty over the past 40 years.
This report suggests that, because of the potentially dire consequences, the risk of
abrupt climate change, although uncertain and quite possibly small, should be
elevated beyond a scientific debate to a U.S. national security concern.
Climate Change
Cold
Dry
Storms
Reduction in Carrying
Capacity
Food
Water
Energy
National Security
Implications
Border management
Global conflict
Economic malaise
Abrupt Climate Change 4
An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United
States National Security
October 2003
Introduction
When most people think about climate change, they imagine gradual increases in
temperature and only marginal changes in other climatic conditions, continuing
indefinitely or even leveling off at some time in the future. The conventional wisdom
is that modern civilization will either adapt to whatever weather conditions we face
and that the pace of climate change will not overwhelm the adaptive capacity of
society, or that our efforts such as those embodied in the Kyoto protocol will be
sufficient to mitigate the impacts. The IPCC documents the threat of gradual climate
change and its impact to food supplies and other resources of importance to humans
will not be so severe as to create security threats. Optimists assert that the benefits
from technological innovation will be able to outpace the negative effects of climate
change.
Climatically, the gradual change view of the future assumes that agriculture will
continue to thrive and growing seasons will lengthen. Northern Europe, Russia, and
North America will prosper agriculturally while southern Europe, Africa, and
Central and South America will suffer from increased dryness, heat, water shortages,
and reduced production. Overall, global food production under many typical climate
scenarios increases. This view of climate change may be a dangerous act of selfdeception,
as increasingly we are facing weather related disasters -- more hurricanes,
monsoons, floods, and dry-spells – in regions around the world.
Weather-related events have an enormous impact on society, as they influence food
supply, conditions in cities and communities, as well as access to clean water and
energy. For example, a recent report by the Climate Action Network of Australia
projects that climate change is likely to reduce rainfall in the rangelands, which could
lead to a 15 per cent drop in grass productivity. This, in turn, could lead to
reductions in the average weight of cattle by 12 per cent, significantly reducing beef
supply. Under such conditions, dairy cows are projected to produce 30% less milk,
and new pests are likely to spread in fruit-growing areas. Additionally, such
conditions are projected to lead to 10% less water for drinking. Based on model
projections of coming change conditions such as these could occur in several food
producing regions around the world at the same time within the next 15-30years,
challenging the notion that society’s ability to adapt will make climate change
manageable.
Abrupt Climate Change 5
With over 400 million people living in drier, subtropical, often over-populated and
economically poor regions today, climate change and its follow-on effects pose a
severe risk to political, economic, and social stability. In less prosperous regions,
where countries lack the resources and capabilities required to adapt quickly to more
severe conditions, the problem is very likely to be exacerbated. For some countries,
climate change could become such a challenge that mass emigration results as the
desperate peoples seek better lives in regions such as the United States that have the
resources to adaptation.
Because the prevailing scenarios of gradual global warming could cause effects like
the ones described above, an increasing number of business leaders, economists,
policy makers, and politicians are concerned about the projections for further change
and are working to limit human influences on the climate. But, these efforts may not
be sufficient or be implemented soon enough.
Rather than decades or even centuries of gradual warming, recent evidence suggests
the possibility that a more dire climate scenario may actually be unfolding. This is
why GBN is working with OSD to develop a plausible scenario for abrupt climate
change that can be used to explore implications for food supply, health and disease,
commerce and trade, and their consequences for national security.
While future weather patterns and the specific details of abrupt climate change
cannot be predicted accurately or with great assurance, the actual history of climate
change provides some useful guides. Our goal is merely to portray a plausible
scenario, similar to one which has already occurred in human experieince, for which
there is reasonable evidence so that we may further explore potential implications for
United States national security.
Creating the Scenario: Reviewing History
Abrupt Climate Change 6
The above graphic, derived from sampling of an ice core in Greenland, shows a
historical tendency for particular regions to experience periods of abrupt cooling
within periods of general warming.1
The Cooling Event 8,200 Years Ago
The climate change scenario outlined in this report is modeled on a century-long
climate event that records from an ice core in Greenland indicate occurred 8,200
years ago. Immediately following an extended period of warming, much like the
phase we appear to be in today, there was a sudden cooling . Average annual
temperatures in Greenland dropped by roughly 5 degrees Fahrenheit, and
temperature decreases nearly this large are likely to have occurred throughout the
North Atlantic region. During the 8,200 event severe winters in Europe and some
other areas caused glaciers to advance, rivers to freeze, and agricultural lands to be
less productive. Scientific evidence suggests that this event was associated with, and
perhaps caused by, a collapse of the ocean’s conveyor following a period of gradual
warming.
Longer ice core and oceanic records suggest that there may have been as many as
eight rapid cooling episodes in the past 730,000 years, and sharp reductions in the
ocean conveyer--a phenomenon that may well be on the horizon – are a likely
suspect in causing such shifts in climate.
The Younger Dryas
About 12,700 years ago, also associated with an apparent collapse of the
thermohaline circulation, there was a cooling of at least 27 degrees Fahrenheit in
Greenland, and substantial change throughout the North Atlantic region as well, this
time lasting 1,300 years. The remarkable feature of the Younger Dryas event was that
it happened in a series of decadal drops of around 5 degrees, and then the cold, dry
weather persisted for over 1,000 years. While this event had an enormous effect on
the ocean and land surrounding Europe (causing icebergs to be found as far south as
the coast of Portugal), its impact would be more severe today – in our densely
populated society. It is the more recent periods of cooling that appear to be
intimately connected with changes to civilization, unrest, inhabitability of once
desirable land, and even the demise of certain populations.
The Little Ice Age
Beginning in the 14th century, the North Atlantic region experienced a cooling that
lasted until the mid-19th century. This cooling may have been caused by a significant
slowing of the ocean conveyor, although it is more generally thought that reduced
solar output and/or volcanic eruptions may have prompted the oceanic changes.
This period, often referred to as the Little Ice Age, which lasted from 1300 to 1850,
brought severe winters, sudden climatic shifts, and profound agricultural, economic,
and political impacts to Europe.
1 R.B. Alley, from The Two Mile Time Machine, 2000.
Abrupt Climate Change 7
The period was marked by persistent crop failures, famine, disease, and population
migration, perhaps most dramatically felt by the Norse, also known as the Vikings,
who inhabited Iceland and later Greenland. Ice formations along the coast of
Greenland prevented merchants from getting their boats to Greenland and fisherman
from getting fish for entire winters. As a result, farmers were forced to slaughter
their poorly fed livestock -- because of a lack of food both for the animals and
themselves -- but without fish, vegetables, and grains, there was not enough food to
feed the population.
Famine, caused in part by the more severe climatic conditions, is reported to have
caused tens of thousands of deaths between 1315 and 1319 alone. The general cooling
also apparently drove the Vikings out of Greenland -- and some say was a
contributing cause for that society’s demise.
While climate crises like the Little Ice Age aren’t solely responsible for the death of
civilizations, it’s undeniable that they have a large impact on society. It has been less
than 175 years since 1 million people died due to the Irish Potato famine, which also
was induced in part by climate change.
A Climate Change Scenario For the Future
The past examples of abrupt climate change suggest that it is prudent to consider an
abrupt climate change scenario for the future as plausible, especially because some
recent scientific findings suggest that we could be on the cusp of such an event. The
future scenario that we have constructed is based on the 8,200 years before present
event, which was much warmer and far briefer than the Younger Dryas, but more
severe than the Little Ice Age. This scenario makes plausible assumptions about
which parts of the globe are likely to be colder, drier, and windier. Although
intensified research could help to refine the assumptions, there is no way to confirm
the assumptions on the basis of present models.
Rather than predicting how climate change will happen, our intent is to dramatize
the impact climate change could have on society if we are unprepared for it. Where
we describe concrete weather conditions and implications, our aim is to further the
strategic conversation rather than to accurately forecast what is likely to happen with
a high degree of certainty. Even the most sophisticated models cannot predict the
details of how the climate change will unfold, which regions will be impacted in
which ways, and how governments and society might respond. However, there
appears to be general agreement in the scientific community that an extreme case like
the one depicted below is not implausible. Many scientists would regard this
scenario as extreme both in how soon it develops, how large, rapid and ubiquitous
the climate changes are. But history tells us that sometimes the extreme cases do
Abrupt Climate Change 8
occur, there is evidence that it might be and it is DOD’s job to consider such
scenarios.
Keep in mind that the duration of this event could be decades, centuries, or millennia
and it could begin this year or many years in the future. In the climate change
disruption scenario proposed here, we consider a period of gradual warming leading
to 2010 and then outline the following ten years, when like in the 8,200 event, an
abrupt change toward cooling in the pattern of weather conditions change is
assumed to occur.
Warming Up to 2010
Following the most rapid century of warming experienced by modern civilization,
the first ten years of the 21st century see an acceleration of atmospheric warming, as
average temperatures worldwide rise by .5 degrees Fahrenheit per decade and by as
much as 2 degrees Fahrenheit per decade in the harder hit regions. Such temperature
changes would vary both by region and by season over the globe, with these finer
scale variations being larger or smaller than the average change. What would be very
clear is that the planet is continuing the warming trend of the late 20th century.
Most of North America, Europe, and parts of South America experience 30% more
days with peak temperatures over 90 degrees Fahrenheit than they did a century ago,
with far fewer days below freezing. In addition to the warming, there are erratic
weather patterns: more floods, particularly in mountainous regions, and prolonged
droughts in grain-producing and coastal-agricultural areas. In general, the climate
shift is an economic nuisance, generally affecting local areas as storms, droughts, and
hot spells impact agriculture and other climate-dependent activities. (More French
doctors remain on duty in August, for example.) The weather pattern, though, is not
yet severe enough or widespread enough to threaten the interconnected global
society or United States national security.
Warming Feedback Loops
As temperatures rise throughout the 20th century and into the early 2000s potent
positive feedback loops kick-in, accelerating the warming from .2 degrees Fahrenheit,
to .4 and eventually .5 degrees Fahrenheit per year in some locations. As the surface
warms, the hydrologic cycle (evaporation, precipitation, and runoff) accelerates
causing temperatures to rise even higher. Water vapor, the most powerful natural
greenhouse gas, traps additional heat and brings average surface air temperatures
up. As evaporation increases, higher surface air temperatures cause drying in forests
and grasslands, where animals graze and farmers grow grain. As trees die and burn,
forests absorb less carbon dioxide, again leading to higher surface air temperatures
as well as fierce and uncontrollable forest fires Further, warmer temperatures melt
snow cover in mountains, open fields, high-latitude tundra areas, and permafrost
throughout forests in cold-weather areas. With the ground absorbing more and
reflecting less of the sun’s rays, temperatures increase even higher.
Abrupt Climate Change 9
By 2005 the climatic impact of the shift is felt more intensely in certain regions
around the world. More severe storms and typhoons bring about higher storm
surges and floods in low-lying islands such as Tarawa and Tuvalu (near New
Zealand). In 2007, a particularly severe storm causes the ocean to break through
levees in the Netherlands making a few key coastal cities such as The Hague
unlivable. Failures of the delta island levees in the Sacramento River region in the
Central Valley of California creates an inland sea and disrupts the aqueduct system
transporting water from northern to southern California because salt water can no
longer be kept out of the area during the dry season. Melting along the Himalayan
glaciers accelerates, causing some Tibetan people to relocate. Floating ice in the
northern polar seas, which had already lost 40% of its mass from 1970 to 2003, is
mostly gone during summer by 2010. As glacial ice melts, sea levels rise and as
wintertime sea extent decreases, ocean waves increase in intensity, damaging coastal
cities. Additionally millions of people are put at risk of flooding around the globe
(roughly 4 times 2003 levels), and fisheries are disrupted as water temperature
changes cause fish to migrate to new locations and habitats, increasing tensions over
fishing rights.
Each of these local disasters caused by severe weather impacts surrounding areas
whose natural, human, and economic resources are tapped to aid in recovery. The
positive feedback loops and acceleration of the warming pattern begin to trigger
responses that weren’t previously imagined, as natural disasters and stormy weather
occur in both developed and lesser-developed nations. Their impacts are greatest in
less-resilient developing nations, which do not have the capacity built into their
social, economic, and agricultural systems to absorb change.
As melting of the Greenland ice sheet exceeds the annual snowfall, and there is
increasing freshwater runoff from high latitude precipitation, the freshening of
waters in the North Atlantic Ocean and the seas between Greenland and Europe
increases. The lower densities of these freshened waters in turn pave the way for a
sharp slowing of the thermohaline circulation system.
The Period from 2010 to 2020
Thermohaline Circulation Collapse
After roughly 60 years of slow freshening, the thermohaline collapse begins in 2010,
disrupting the temperate climate of Europe, which is made possible by the warm
flows of the Gulf Stream (the North Atlantic arm of the global thermohaline
conveyor). Ocean circulation patterns change, bringing less warm water north and
causing an immediate shift in the weather in Northern Europe and eastern North
America. The North Atlantic Ocean continues to be affected by fresh water coming
from melting glaciers, Greenland’s ice sheet, and perhaps most importantly increased
rainfall and runoff. Decades of high-latitude warming cause increased precipitation
Abrupt Climate Change 10
and bring additional fresh water to the salty, dense water in the North, which is
normally affected mainly by warmer and saltier water from the Gulf Stream. That
massive current of warm water no longer reaches far into the North Atlantic. The
immediate climatic effect is cooler temperatures in Europe and throughout much of
the Northern Hemisphere and a dramatic drop in rainfall in many key agricultural
and populated areas. However, the effects of the collapse will be felt in fits and starts,
as the traditional weather patterns re-emerge only to be disrupted again—for a full
decade.
The dramatic slowing of the thermohaline circulation is anticipated by some ocean
researchers, but the United States is not sufficiently prepared for its effects, timing, or
intensity. Computer models of the climate and ocean systems, though improved,
were unable to produce sufficiently consistent and accurate information for
policymakers. As weather patterns shift in the years following the collapse, it is not
clear what type of weather future years will bring. While some forecasters believe the
cooling and dryness is about to end, others predict a new ice age or a global drought,
leaving policy makers and the public highly uncertain about the future climate and
what to do, if anything. Is this merely a “blip” of little importance or a fundamental
change in the Earth’s climate, requiring an urgent massive human response?
Cooler, Drier, Windier Conditions for Continental Areas of the Northern Hemisphere
The Weather Report: 2010-2020
· Drought persists for the entire decade in critical agricultural regions
and in the areas around major population centers in Europe and
eastern North America.
· Average annual temperatures drop by up to 5 degrees Fahrenheit over
Asia and North America and up to 6 degrees Fahrenheit in Europe.
· Temperatures increase by up to 4 degrees Fahrenheit in key areas
throughout Australia, South America, and southern Africa.
· Winter storms and winds intensify, amplifying the impact of the
changes. Western Europe and the North Pacific face enhanced
westerly winds.
Each of the years from 2010-2020 sees average temperature drops throughout
Northern Europe, leading to as much as a 6 degree Fahrenheit drop in ten years.
Average annual rainfall in this region decreases by nearly 30%; and winds are up to
15% stronger on average. The climatic conditions are more severe in the continental
interior regions of northern Asia and North America.
Abrupt Climate Change 11
The effects of the drought are more devastating than the unpleasantness of
temperature decreases in the agricultural and populated areas. With the persistent
reduction of precipitation in these areas, lakes dry-up, river flow decreases, and fresh
water supply is squeezed, overwhelming available conservation options and
depleting fresh water reserves. The Mega-droughts begin in key regions in Southern
China and Northern Europe around 2010 and last throughout the full decade. At the
same time, areas that were relatively dry over the past few decades receive persistent
years of torrential rainfall, flooding rivers, and regions that traditionally relied on
dryland agriculture.
In the North Atlantic region and across northern Asia, cooling is most pronounced in
the heart of winter -- December, January, and February -- although its effects linger
through the seasons, the cooling becomes increasingly intense and less predictable.
As snow accumulates in mountain regions, the cooling spreads to summertime. In
addition to cooling and summertime dryness, wind pattern velocity strengthens as
the atmospheric circulation becomes more zonal.
While weather patterns are disrupted during the onset of the climatic change around
the globe, the effects are far more pronounced in Northern Europe for the first five
years after the thermohaline circulation collapse. By the second half of this decade,
the chill and harsher conditions spread deeper into Southern Europe, North America,
and beyond. Northern Europe cools as a pattern of colder weather lengthens the
time that sea ice is present over the northern North Atlantic Ocean, creating a further
cooling influence and extending the period of wintertime surface air temperatures.
Winds pick up as the atmosphere tries to deal with the stronger pole-to-equator
temperature gradient. Cold air blowing across the European continent causes
especially harsh conditions for agriculture. The combination of wind and dryness
causes widespread dust storms and soil loss.
Signs of incremental warming appear in the southern most areas along the Atlantic
Ocean, but the dryness doesn’t let up. By the end of the decade, Europe’s climate is
more like Siberia’s.
An Alternative Scenario for the Southern Hemisphere
There is considerable uncertainty about the climate dynamics of the Southern
Hemisphere, mainly due to less paleoclimatic data being available than for the
Northern Hemisphere. Weather patterns in key regions in the Southern Hemisphere
could mimic those of the Northern Hemisphere, becoming colder, drier, and more
severe as heat flows from the tropics to the Northern Hemisphere, trying to
thermodynamically balance the climatic system. Alternatively, the cooling of the
Northern Hemisphere may lead to increased warmth, precipitation, and storms in
the south, as the heat normally transported away from equatorial regions by the
ocean currents becomes trapped and as greenhouse gas warming continues to
Abrupt Climate Change 12
accelerate. Either way, it is not implausible that abrupt climate change will bring
extreme weather conditions to many of the world’s key population and growing
regions at the same time – stressing global food, water, and energy supply.
The Regions: 2010 to 2020
COLD,
DRY,
WINDY
COLD,
DRY,
WINDY
DRY
WET,
STORMY
DRY,
INTERMITTENT
MONSOONS
The above graphic shows a simplified view of the weather patterns portrayed in this scenario.
Europe. Hit hardest by the climatic change, average annual temperatures drop by 6
degrees Fahrenheit in under a decade, with more dramatic shifts along the
Northwest coast. The climate in northwestern Europe is colder, drier, and windier,
making it more like Siberia. Southern Europe experiences less of a change but still
suffers from sharp intermittent cooling and rapid temperature shifts. Reduced
precipitation causes soil loss to become a problem throughout Europe, contributing
to food supply shortages. Europe struggles to stem emigration out of Scandinavian
and northern European nations in search of warmth as well as immigration from
hard-hit countries in Africa and elsewhere.
United States. Colder, windier, and drier weather makes growing seasons shorter
and less productive throughout the northeastern United States, and longer and drier
in the southwest. Desert areas face increasing windstorms, while agricultural areas
suffer from soil loss due to higher wind speeds and reduced soil moisture. The
change toward a drier climate is especially pronounced in the southern states.
Abrupt Climate Change 13
Coastal areas that were at risk during the warming period remain at risk, as rising
ocean levels continues along the shores. The United States turns inward, committing
its resources to feeding its own population, shoring-up its borders, and managing the
increasing global tension.
China. China, with its high need for food supply given its vast population, is hit hard
by a decreased reliability of the monsoon rains. Occasional monsoons during the
summer season are welcomed for their precipitation, but have devastating effects as
they flood generally denuded land. Longer, colder winters and hotter summers
caused by decreased evaporative cooling because of reduced precipitation stress
already tight energy and water supplies. Widespread famine causes chaos and
internal struggles as a cold and hungry China peers jealously across the Russian and
western borders at energy resources.
Bangladesh. Persistent typhoons and a higher sea level create storm surges that
cause significant coastal erosion, making much of Bangladesh nearly uninhabitable.
Further, the rising sea level contaminates fresh water supplies inland, creating a
drinking water and humanitarian crisis. Massive emigration occurs, causing tension
in China and India, which are struggling to manage the crisis inside their own
boundaries.
East Africa. Kenya, Tanzania, and Mozambique face slightly warmer weather, but
are challenged by persistent drought. Accustomed to dry conditions, these countries
were the least influenced by the changing weather conditions, but their food supply
is challenged as major grain producing regions suffer.
Australia. A major food exporter, Australia struggles to supply food around the
globe, as its agriculture is not severely impacted by more subtle changes in its
climate. But the large uncertainties about Southern Hemisphere climate change make
this benign conclusion suspect.
Impact on Natural Resources
The changing weather patterns and ocean temperatures affect agriculture, fish and
wildlife, water and energy. Crop yields, affected by temperature and water stress as
well as length of growing season fall by 10-25% and are less predictable as key
regions shift from a warming to a cooling trend. As some agricultural pests die due
to temperature changes, other species spread more readily due to the dryness and
windiness – requiring alternative pesticides or treatment regiments. Commercial
fishermen that typically have rights to fish in specific areas will be ill equipped for
the massive migration of their prey.
Abrupt Climate Change 14
With only five or six key grain-growing regions in the world (US, Australia,
Argentina, Russia, China, and India), there is insufficient surplus in global food
supplies to offset severe weather conditions in a few regions at the same time – let
alone four or five. The world’s economic interdependence make the United States
increasingly vulnerable to the economic disruption created by local weather shifts in
key agricultural and high population areas around the world. Catastrophic shortages
of water and energy supply – both which are stressed around the globe today –
cannot be quickly overcome.
Impact on National Security
Human civilization began with the stabilization and warming of the Earth’s climate.
A colder unstable climate meant that humans could neither develop agriculture or
permanent settlements. With the end of the Younger Dryas and the warming and
stabilization that followed, humans could learn the rhythms of agriculture and settle
in places whose climate was reliably productive. Modern civilization has never
experienced weather conditions as persistently disruptive as the ones outlined in this
scenario. As a result, the implications for national security outlined in this report are
only hypothetical. The actual impacts would vary greatly depending on the nuances
of the weather conditions, the adaptability of humanity, and decisions by
policymakers.
Violence and disruption stemming from the stresses created by abrupt changes in the
climate pose a different type of threat to national security than we are accustomed to
today. Military confrontation may be triggered by a desperate need for natural
resources such as energy, food and water rather than by conflicts over ideology,
religion, or national honor. The shifting motivation for confrontation would alter
which countries are most vulnerable and the existing warning signs for security
threats.
There is a long-standing academic debate over the extent to which resource
constraints and environmental challenges lead to inter-state conflict. While some
believe they alone can lead nations to attack one another, others argue that their
primary effect is to act as a trigger of conflict among countries that face pre-existing
social, economic, and political tension. Regardless, it seems undeniable that severe
environmental problems are likely to escalate the degree of global conflict.
Co-founder and President of the Pacific Institute for Studies in Development,
Environment, and Security, Peter Gleick outlines the three most fundamental
challenges abrupt climate change poses for national security:
1. Food shortages due to decreases in agricultural production
2. Decreased availability and quality of fresh water due to flooding and droughts
3. Disrupted access to strategic minerals due to ice and storms
Abrupt Climate Change 15
In the event of abrupt climate change, it’s likely that food, water, and energy resource
constraints will first be managed through economic, political, and diplomatic means
such as treaties and trade embargoes. Over time though, conflicts over land and
water use are likely to become more severe – and more violent. As states become
increasingly desperate, the pressure for action will grow.
Decreasing Carrying Capacity
The graphic shows how abrupt
climate change may cause
human carrying capacity to fall
below usage of the eco-system,
suggesting insufficient
resources leading to a
contraction of the population
through war, disease, and
famine.
Today, carrying capacity, which is the ability for the Earth and its natural ecosystems
including social, economic, and cultural systems to support the finite number of
people on the planet, is being challenged around the world. According to the
International Energy Agency, global demand for oil will grow by 66% in the next 30
years, but it’s unclear where the supply will come from. Clean water is similarly
constrained in many areas around the world. With 815 million people receiving
insufficient sustenance worldwide, some would say that as a globe, we’re living well
above our carrying capacity, meaning there are not sufficient natural resources to
sustain our behavior.
Many point to technological innovation and adaptive behavior as a means for
managing the global ecosystem. Indeed it has been technological progress that has
increased carrying capacity over time. Over centuries we have learned how to
produce more food, energy and access more water. But will the potential of new
technologies be sufficient when a crisis like the one outlined in this scenario hits?
Abrupt climate change is likely to stretch carrying capacity well beyond its already
precarious limits. And there’s a natural tendency or need for carrying capacity to
become realigned. As abrupt climate change lowers the world’s carrying capacity
aggressive wars are likely to be fought over food, water, and energy. Deaths from
war as well as starvation and disease will decrease population size, which overtime,
will re-balance with carrying capacity.
Abrupt Climate Change 16
When you look at carrying capacity on a regional or state level it is apparent that
those nations with a high carrying capacity, such as the United States and Western
Europe, are likely to adapt most effectively to abrupt changes in climate, because,
relative to their population size, they have more resources to call on. This may give
rise to a more severe have, have-not mentality, causing resentment toward those
nations with a higher carrying capacity. It may lead to finger-pointing and blame, as
the wealthier nations tend to use more energy and emit more greenhouse gasses such
as CO2 into the atmosphere. Less important than the scientifically proven
relationship between CO2 emissions and climate change is the perception that
impacted nations have – and the actions they take.
The Link Between Carrying Capacity and Warfare
Steven LeBlanc, Harvard archaeologist and author of a new book called Carrying
Capacity, describes the relationship between carrying capacity and warfare. Drawing
on abundant archaeological and ethnological data, LeBlanc argues that historically
humans conducted organized warfare for a variety of reasons, including warfare
over resources and the environment. Humans fight when they outstrip the carrying
capacity of their natural environment. Every time there is a choice between starving
and raiding, humans raid. From hunter/gatherers through agricultural tribes,
chiefdoms, and early complex societies, 25% of a population’s adult males die when
war breaks out.
Peace occurs when carrying capacity goes up, as with the invention of agriculture,
newly effective bureaucracy, remote trade and technological breakthroughs. Also a
large scale die-back such as from plague can make for peaceful times---Europe after
its major plagues, North American natives after European diseases decimated their
populations (that's the difference between the Jamestown colony failure and
Plymouth Rock success). But such peaceful periods are short-lived because
population quickly rises to once again push against carrying capacity, and warfare
resumes. Indeed, over the millennia most societies define themselves according to
their ability to conduct war, and warrior culture becomes deeply ingrained. The
most combative societies are the ones that survive.
However in the last three centuries, LeBlanc points out, advanced states have
steadily lowered the body count even though individual wars and genocides have
grown larger in scale. Instead of slaughtering all their enemies in the traditional
way, for example, states merely kill enough to get a victory and then put the
survivors to work in their newly expanded economy. States also use their own
bureaucracies, advanced technology, and international rules of behavior to raise
carrying capacity and bear a more careful relationship to it.
All of that progressive behavior could collapse if carrying capacities everywhere
were suddenly lowered drastically by abrupt climate change. Humanity would
revert to its norm of constant battles for diminishing resources, which the battles
Abrupt Climate Change 17
themselves would further reduce even beyond the climatic effects. Once again
warfare would define human life.
Conflict Scenario Due to Climate Change
Europe Asia United States
2010-2020 2012: Severe drought
and cold push
Scandinavian
populations
southward, push back
from EU
2015: Conflict within
the EU over food and
water supply leads to
skirmishes and
strained diplomatic
relations
2018: Russia joins EU,
providing energy
resources
2020: Migration from
northern countries
such as Holland and
Germany toward
Spain and Italy
2010: Border
skirmishes and
conflict in Bangladesh,
India, and China, as
mass migration occurs
toward Burma
2012: Regional
instability leads Japan
to develop force
projection capability
2015: Strategic
agreement between
Japan and Russia for
Siberia and Sakhalin
energy resources
2018: China intervenes
in Kazakhstan to
protect pipelines
regularly disrupted by
rebels and criminals.
2010: Disagreements
with Canada and
Mexico over water
increase tension
2012: Flood of refugees
to southeast U.S. and
Mexico from
Caribbean islands
2015: European
migration to United
States (mostly
wealthy)
2016: Conflict with
European countries
over fishing rights
2018: Securing North
America, U.S. forms
integrated security
alliance with Canada
and Mexico
2020: Department of
Defense manages
borders and refugees
from Caribbean and
Europe.
2020-2030 2020: Increasing:
skirmishes over water
and immigration
2022: Skirmish
between France and
Germany over
commercial access to
Rhine
2025: EU nears
collapse
2027: Increasing
migration to
Mediterranean
countries such as
Algeria, Morocco,
Egypt, and Israel
2030: Nearly 10% of
European population
2020: Persistent
conflict in South East
Asia; Burma, Laos,
Vietnam, India, China
2025: Internal
conditions in China
deteriorate
dramatically leading
to civil war and border
wars.
2030: Tension growing
between China and
Japan over Russian
energy
*
2020: Oil prices
increase as security of
supply is threatened
by conflicts in Persian
Gulf and Caspian
2025: Internal struggle
in Saudi Arabia brings
Chinese and U.S.
naval forces to Gulf ,in
direct confrontation
Abrupt Climate Change 18
moves to a different
country
The chart above outlines some potential military implications of climate change
The two most likely reactions to a sudden drop in carrying capacity due to climate
change are defensive and offensive.
The United States and Australia are likely to build defensive fortresses around their
countries because they have the resources and reserves to achieve self-sufficiency.
With diverse growing climates, wealth, technology, and abundant resources, the
United States could likely survive shortened growing cycles and harsh weather
conditions without catastrophic losses. Borders will be strengthened around the
country to hold back unwanted starving immigrants from the Caribbean islands (an
especially severe problem), Mexico, and South America. Energy supply will be
shored up through expensive (economically, politically, and morally) alternatives
such as nuclear, renewables, hydrogen, and Middle Eastern contracts. Pesky
skirmishes over fishing rights, agricultural support, and disaster relief will be
commonplace. Tension between the U.S. and Mexico rise as the U.S. reneges on the
1944 treaty that guarantees water flow from the Colorado River. Relief workers will
be commissioned to respond to flooding along the southern part of the east coast and
much drier conditions inland. Yet, even in this continuous state of emergency the
U.S. will be positioned well compared to others. The intractable problem facing the
nation will be calming the mounting military tension around the world.
As famine, disease, and weather-related disasters strike due to the abrupt climate
change, many countries’ needs will exceed their carrying capacity. This will create a
sense of desperation, which is likely to lead to offensive aggression in order to
reclaim balance. Imagine eastern European countries, struggling to feed their
populations with a falling supply of food, water, and energy, eyeing Russia, whose
population is already in decline, for access to its grain, minerals, and energy supply.
Or, picture Japan, suffering from flooding along its coastal cities and contamination
of its fresh water supply, eying Russia’s Sakhalin Island oil and gas reserves as an
energy source to power desalination plants and energy-intensive agricultural
processes. Envision Pakistan, India, and China – all armed with nuclear weapons –
skirmishing at their borders over refugees, access to shared rivers, and arable land.
Spanish and Portuguese fishermen might fight over fishing rights – leading to
conflicts at sea. And, countries including the United States would be likely to better
secure their borders. With over 200 river basins touching multiple nations, we can
expect conflict over access to water for drinking, irrigation, and transportation. The
Danube touches twelve nations, the Nile runs though nine, and the Amazon runs
through seven.
Abrupt Climate Change 19
In this scenario, we can expect alliances of convenience. The United States and
Canada may become one, simplifying border controls. Or, Canada might keep its
hydropower—causing energy problems in the US. North and South Korea may align
to create one technically savvy and nuclear-armed entity. Europe may act as a
unified block – curbing immigration problems between European nations – and
allowing for protection against aggressors. Russia, with its abundant minerals, oil,
and natural gas may join Europe.
In this world of warring states, nuclear arms proliferation is inevitable. As cooling
drives up demand, existing hydrocarbon supplies are stretched thin. With a scarcity
of energy supply – and a growing need for access -- nuclear energy will become a
critical source of power, and this will accelerate nuclear proliferation as countries
develop enrichment and reprocessing capabilities to ensure their national security.
China, India, Pakistan, Japan, South Korea, Great Britain, France, and Germany will
all have nuclear weapons capability, as will Israel, Iran, Egypt, and North Korea.
Managing the military and political tension, occasional skirmishes, and threat of war
will be a challenge. Countries such as Japan, that have a great deal of social cohesion
(meaning the government is able to effectively engage its population in changing
behavior) are most likely to fair well. Countries whose diversity already produces
conflict, such as India, South Africa and Indonesia, will have trouble maintaining
order. Adaptability and access to resources will be key. Perhaps the most frustrating
challenge abrupt climate change will pose is that we’ll never know how far we are
into the climate change scenario and how many more years – 10, 100, 1000 --- remain
before some kind of return to warmer conditions as the thermohaline circulation
starts up again. When carrying capacity drops suddenly, civilization is faced with
new challenges that today seem unimaginable.
Could This Really Happen?
Ocean, land, and atmosphere scientists at some of the world’s most prestigious
organizations have uncovered new evidence over the past decade suggesting that the
plausibility of severe and rapid climate change is higher than most of the scientific
community and perhaps all of the political community is prepared for. If it occurs,
this phenomenon will disrupt current gradual global warming trends, adding to
climate complexity and lack of predictability. And paleoclimatic evidence suggests
that such an abrupt climate change could begin in the near future.
The Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute reports that seas surrounding the North
Atlantic have become less salty in the past 40 years, which in turn freshens the deep
ocean in the North Atlantic. This trend could pave the way for ocean conveyor
collapse or slowing and abrupt climate change.
Abrupt Climate Change 20
34.96
34.94
34.92
34.90
34.88
34.86
34.84
34.82
34.80
1970 1975 1980 1985 1990 1995 2000
Representational Graph
SALINITY MEDIAN
YEAR
Northeast Atlantic
Denmark Strait
Labrador Sea
The above graphic shows early evidence that a thermohaline circulation collapse may be imminent,
as the North Atlantic is increasingly being freshened by surrounding seas that have become less
salty over the past 40 years.2
2 Adapted from I Yashayaev, Bedford Institute of Oceanography as seen in Abrupt Climate Change, Inevitable
Surprises, National Research Council.
Abrupt Climate Change 21
The above two headlines appeared in Nature Magazine in 2001 and 2002, respectively. They
suggest that the North Atlantic salinity level may lower, increasing the likelihood of a
thermohaline circulation collapse.
With at least eight abrupt climate change events documented in the geological
record, it seems that the questions to ask are: When will this happen? What will the
impacts be? And, how can we best prepare for it? Rather than: Will this really happen?
Are we prepared for history to repeat itself again?
There is a debate in newspapers around the globe today on the impact of human
activity on climate change. Because economic prosperity is correlated with energy
use and greenhouse gas emissions, it is often argued that economic progress leads to
climate change. Competing evidence suggests that climate change can occur,
regardless of human activity as seen in climate events that happened prior to modern
society.
It’s important to understand human impacts on the environment – both what’s done
to accelerate and decelerate (or perhaps even reverse) the tendency toward climate
change. Alternative fuels, greenhouse gas emission controls, and conservation efforts
are worthwhile endeavors. In addition, we should prepare for the inevitable effects
of abrupt climate change – which will likely come regardless of human activity.
Here are some preliminary recommendations to prepare the United States for abrupt
climate change:
1) Improve predictive climate models. Further research should be conducted so
more confidence can be placed in predictions about climate change. There
needs to be a deeper understanding of the relationship between ocean
patterns and climate change. This research should focus on historical, current,
and predictive forces, and aim to further our understanding of abrupt climate
change, how it may happen, and how we’ll know it’s occurring.
2) Assemble comprehensive predictive models of climate change impacts.
Substantial research should be done on the potential ecological, economic,
social, and political impact of abrupt climate change. Sophisticated models
and scenarios should be developed to anticipate possible local conditions. A
system should be created to identify how climate change may impact the
global distribution of social, economic, and political power. These analyses
can be used to mitigate potential sources of conflict before they happen.
3) Create vulnerability metrics. Metrics should be created to understand a
country’s vulnerability to the impacts of climate change. Metrics may include
climatic impact on existing agricultural, water, and mineral resources;
technical capability; social cohesion and adaptability.
Abrupt Climate Change 22
4) Identify no-regrets strategies. No-regrets strategies should be identified and
implemented to ensure reliable access to food supply and water, and to ensure
national security.
5) Rehearse adaptive responses. Adaptive response teams should be established
to address and prepare for inevitable climate driven events such as massive
migration, disease and epidemics, and food and water supply shortages.
6) Explore local implications. The first-order effects of climate change are local.
While we can anticipate changes in pest prevalence and severity and changes
in agricultural productivity, one has to look at very specific locations and
conditions to know which pests are of concern, which crops and regions are
vulnerable, and how severe impacts will be. Such studies should be
undertaken, particularly in strategically important food producing regions.
7) Explore geo-engineering options that control the climate. Today, it is easier
to warm than to cool the climate, so it might be possible to add various gases,
such as hydrofluorocarbons, to the atmosphere to offset the affects of cooling.
Such actions, of course, would be studied carefully, as they have the potential
to exacerbate conflicts among nations.
Conclusion
It is quite plausible that within a decade the evidence of an imminent abrupt climate
shift may become clear and reliable. It is also possible that our models will better
enable us to predict the consequences. In that event the United States will need to
take urgent action to prevent and mitigate some of the most significant impacts.
Diplomatic action will be needed to minimize the likelihood of conflict in the most
impacted areas, especially in the Caribbean and Asia. However, large population
movements in this scenario are inevitable. Learning how to manage those
populations, border tensions that arise and the resulting refugees will be critical.
New forms of security agreements dealing specifically with energy, food and water
will also be needed. In short, while the US itself will be relatively better off and with
more adaptive capacity, it will find itself in a world where Europe will be struggling
internally, large number so refugees washing up on its shores and Asia in serious
crisis over food and water. Disruption and conflict will be endemic features of life.

gaiacomm
04-03-2004, 09:32 AM
Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

Bonehead9
04-03-2004, 10:00 PM
Jay, I have read that report and it is interesting as a worst case scenario. I also found it interesting that the predictions of the effects of a possible sudden climate change were based on historical precedents 8,000 to 12,000 years ago.

I also find Halva’s insistence that the global warming issue is a political one not a technical (or I guess for that matter, a scientific) issue to be telling. It appears that Halva seems to be under the impression that global warming has only anthropogenic causes. The chart of historic temperatures in that report puts that lie to rest.

Halva and the rest of the anti-globalists anarchist/socialists seem to be under the impression that the abolition of large corporations, and the implementation of socialism/communism is the only way to solve global warming. Too bad the formerly communists nations of Eastern Europe are some of the most polluted places in the world right now.

I am currently reading an interesting book by Jack M. Hollander titled "The Real Environmental Crisis" In it he makes a very convincing case that the greatest threat to the environment is, in fact, poverty. This is anathema to people like Halva, whose entire belief system is geared toward his hatred of America and blaming Americans for the worlds problems.

Too bad also that Halva is refusing to debate this issue as it is certainly an interesting one worthy of debate. But I can imagine it will only be a matter of time before Gollum and Smeagol come over here and trash this thread also.

halva
04-03-2004, 11:18 PM
My purpose in starting this thread was to highlight the differences, not the similarities, between the views, assumptions and outlooks of the OIKIA group in Athens and 'chemtrails' activists, including people who post at CTC, Megasprayer and here, and chemtrails activist groups.

Given the similarity in some way between the OIKIA assumptions and the Arianna assumptions, it was a similar starting point to that of the 'It's not nice to fool with Mother Nature" thread.

The debunkers are not interested in these differences: all they perceive are the similarities, for they are hostile both to the OIKIA viewpoint and to the chemtrail activist viewpoint.

Their interventions therefore derail the discussion, even before Liakopoulos and Gaiacomm start retaliating to them.

Note that Reynolds does not even try any more to win the hearts and minds of the OIKIA group as he tried to do with Arianna initially, saving her from the influence of chemmies.

Of course the relevant anti-chemmie input into the OIKIA group would have to be carried out in real life to be effective, and Reynolds could not do it even if he lived in Europe.

It is no accident that although he responded to the challenge of proposed real-life discussion in California, he is avoiding Gaiacomm's invitation for an all-expenses-paid tour to Greece. (And here I am not taking any position on whether this Greece idea will really come off, and whether Gaiacomm really can and will go to Kos.)

Nevertheless, as I have said before, it is the real-world interventions that are important. Both Gaiacomm and Liakopoulos could intervene in a more purposeful and less time-wasting way off-line than on-line.

Any serious intervention here will trigger a response from Reynolds and/or another debunker and then retaliation from Gaiacomm and Liakopoulos, and eventually the moderators at Arianna Online may get fed up and delete the whole thread, which will be a pity because there is so much useful material on it.

Reynolds' challenges to debate on this thread are not going to get a response from me because the debate he proposes on this thread interests me as little as the one that I propose interests him.

Therefore, the debate I propose cannot take place here. Anyone interested in pursuing it who can go to Megasprayer and is willing to, I suggest that they do so.

Possibly not all non-debunkers here at Arianna's can or want to go to Megasprayer. I therefore suggest that we continue our presence here at Arianna's, but that we use the forum as a notice board for reporting on real-world activity. Hopefully this will give fewer opportunities for debunker interference. I propose ignoring rather than spamming and flaming as the best means of dealing with the debunker presence.

gaiacomm
04-04-2004, 01:32 AM
Well written, Wayne!

jayreynolds
04-04-2004, 07:01 AM
Jay, I have read that report and it is interesting as a worst case scenario. I also found it interesting that the predictions of the effects of a possible sudden climate change were based on historical precedents 8,000 to 12,000 years ago.

I also find Halva’s insistence that the global warming issue is a political one not a technical (or I guess for that matter, a scientific) issue to be telling. It appears that Halva seems to be under the impression that global warming has only anthropogenic causes. The chart of historic temperatures in that report puts that lie to rest.

Halva and the rest of the anti-globalists anarchist/socialists seem to be under the impression that the abolition of large corporations, and the implementation of socialism/communism is the only way to solve global warming. Too bad the formerly communists nations of Eastern Europe are some of the most polluted places in the world right now.

I am currently reading an interesting book by Jack M. Hollander titled "The Real Environmental Crisis" In it he makes a very convincing case that the greatest threat to the environment is, in fact, poverty. This is anathema to people like Halva, whose entire belief system is geared toward his hatred of America and blaming Americans for the worlds problems.

Too bad also that Halva is refusing to debate this issue as it is certainly an interesting one worthy of debate. But I can imagine it will only be a matter of time before Gollum and Smeagol come over here and trash this thread also.


I agree, bonehead, few of those touting this report have read it or appear to understand what it really says. To me, just reading the graphs tells you that it was at various times in recent geological history, both warmer and colder than today, all without human influence.

You wrote:
"Halva and the rest of the anti-globalists anarchist/socialists seem to be under the impression that the abolition of large corporations, and the implementation of socialism/communism is the only way to solve global warming. Too bad the formerly communists nations of Eastern Europe are some of the most polluted places in the world right now."

halva uses the euphemism 'left' when decribing himself. The fact is that the author of the link he posted Georgios, decribes himself more honestly as a "Marxist". Hard to conceive for us over here in america, but in plenty of other parts of the world, some people proudly carry that name. For them, the "proletarian class struggle" is still their life's work. For them,
"global warming" is actually a means to an end, not an ends to a means.
Marxists always go for destruction of the present system first, which can then be reborn as their intended end- a "dictatorship of the proletariat".

halva knows what he is doing. If his ilk got power, it's Stalin all over again.

gaiacomm
04-04-2004, 09:54 AM
Jay is not a scientist and cannot help!

gaiacomm
04-04-2004, 10:01 AM
Contrails Vs Chemtrails -
Facts And Chronology
From Kim Weber <ohwarriorgoddess@earthlink.net>
5-23-00




I. Contrail vs. Chemtrail.

A. A contrail dispurses. A chemtrail spreads into cloud cover and sometimes has fallout (cob-web like filaments, red/yellow powders, milky-white fluid).

II. Purposes (??? weather modification, protection from ozone holes, bio-vaccination, culling - ???)

A. Weather modification.

* Openly stated goal of the U.S. Military is "owning the weather" www.au.af.mil/au/database/research/ay1996/acsc/9025ag.htm

* UN environmental Program "Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change" www.ipcc.ch

* UN "Capacity Development Initiative" on climate change ... in partnership with THE WORLD BANK as financiers (remember Seattle protests) www.gefweb.org/Capacity_Dev.pdf

* Dr. Bernard Eastlund took up the Tesla theories. Eastlund released his research and concernns on the internet AFTER the military took over, to cover his butt. www.borderlands.com/newstuff/research/HPEMRAD/Eastlund.htm

* When DOD took over Dr. Eastlund's research, the birth of HAARP took place. HAARP is based in Alaska and it is being applied to the Earth's ionosphere for weather control and mind control purposes. "Angels Don't Play This HAARP", Dr. Nick Begich [Earthpulse Press, PO Box 201393, Anchorage, AK 99520]; Concerned citizens group paper at www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/project116.html

* US Air Force IS involved. Early April 2000, KC135s were grounded and during the period immediately following spraying reports across the US significantly dropped. See http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/chemtrailtrackingusa (OVER 700 members - daily reports to track) Also see the research of William Thomas (Author, "The Scorched Earth", "Bringing The War Home", "Probing the Chemtrail Conundrum") www.islandnet.com/~wilco/investsky.htm (Email: wilco@islandnet.com).

* Our weathermen KNOW. The data doesn't support the cloud cover. For instance, last year in Sante Fe, NM there was a 21-day period of continuous clouud cover when humidity/dew point levels were no higher than 30%. Clouds can only form when humidity/dew point levels are 60% of higher. HOW DID THE CLOUDS FORM?? (see www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm)

B. There has definitely been biological warfare testing of UNKNOWING U.S. citizens and OUR GOVERNMENT IS FULLY AWARE OF IT.

* 1977 hearings before the U.S. Senate Committee on Human Resources SubCommittee on Health and Scientific Research (see www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm)

* AGAIN 5/6/94 U.S. Senate testimony of Dr. Leonard Cole (Author, "Clouds of Secrecy") before the Committee on Veteran's Affairs (see www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm)

* 3 segments aired on ABC / Ted Kopple's "Nighline" which included the testimony of Peter Kawaja on the biowarfare exposure of Gulf War vets. Of the initial 697,000 soldiers deployed to the Gulf War, 489,400+ (70%) are now discharged, 1000s have died and are dying, 67% of their babies born after are born deformed, family/friends/doctors/nurses becoming sick. Mycoplasmas are a part of their sickness.

* UN Wildlands Project - the "re-wilding of America". 50% of the United States is being set aside for global parklands with NO HUMANS ALLOWED. Papers state "human population must be reduced." Concerned citizens site www.wildlandsproject.org/htm/summary.htm

* Damning patents. U.S. patent 5534413 for invasive mycoplasma infection (isolated from the urine of AIDS patients), and THE VACCINE YOU NEVER EVER HEAR ABOUT U.S. Patent 5242820. Mycoplasmas can cause Epstein-Barr/mono, lupus, ALS, MS, meningitis, lymphoma, leukemia, alzheimers, Crohn's Disease, PID, arthritis, fibromyalgia, allergies, asthma etc etc etc. http://members.aol.com/ghylak/mycoplasma.htm and www.gulfwarvets.com/article24.htm

* Lab results from ground samples taken from 2 unassociated parties (Sacramento and E.Oregon) after flyovers from unmarked aircraft reveal biowarfare bacterias named in over 160 Pentagon patents referencing biowarfare applications, toxic molds, ethylene dibromide (a pesticide banned by the EPA which damages lungs/heart/liver/kidneys). (See www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm). "The flu that's not the flu" - hospitals filled to capacity TURNING AWAY patients: "THIS VIRUS IS A MUCH MORE SUCCESSFUL PARASITE", Dr. W. Paul Glezen of the Influena Research Center at Baylor. NEVER has "parasite" been associated with a "virus". A parasite FEEDS FROM THE HOST. A virus, on the other hand, NEEDS A SUSCEPTIBLE HOST'S CELLS TO MULTIPLY. What's Dr. Glezen talking about? Dr. Leonard G. Horowitz states: "Based on the evidence that my colleagues and I have accumulated, I conclude that this flu-like illness IS most likely associated with chemical and biological co-factors." His email: tetra@tetrahedron.org.

* Florescent black light reveals filaments - LOTS - which glows blue, red/orange. Contains barium titanate?, a dielectric used to keep electricity flowing. Using this to : trap moisture to create clouds; build up earth pressures to cause earthquakes, tornados, volcanic eruptions; to create extra tension and stress in humans. The fibers are in a twisted ribbon shape ~3-5 microns thick by ~10 to 13 microns wide. They have imperfections that manifest as small clumps of polymer whiskers ~.5 to 1 micron in diameter by ~5 to 10 microns long. There are large enough by themselves and in sufficient quantity to cause possible long-lasting lung disease. WHERE ARE YOU AMERICAN LUNG ASSOCIATION??

* A microsopic particle count study in New Mexico shows a 16% increase in the magnitude of the average microscopic particle count data of 1999 vs. the average of the COMBINED YEARS of 1996, 1997 and 1998. The difference is significant - at the 99.9% plus level. The conclusion reached is that the microscopic air particle count in New Mexico in 1999 is STRIKINGLY different from that of the preceding 3 years combined. (See www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm).

C. Ominous developments.

* Unusual truck activity across the U.S. Trimac Western tanker trucks that DO NOT display DOT placard codes giving their contents, being WAVED THRU mandatory truck inspection stops! People who slow down to take a "look-see" are being shadowed 20-30 miles by civilian cars escorting the tanker trucks. Trimac is owned by Rentokil of the United Kingdom - they haul pesticides and chemicals for BASF, DuPont and Bayer. (See www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm).

* COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT ARE NOW BEING USED TO SPRAY - particularly BOEING planes. Also, an aircraft mechanic from a major airline received anonymous "warning" call, job suspension and threats left in his locker after his observing an extra 50gal. plus 2 smaller gal. tanks located near the aircraft waste disposal system. The extra tanks WERE NOT connected to the waste disposal system, but instead led to a box attached to the aircraft's central control and had piping leading to deliberately "hollowed out" wiring connected to the edges of the aircraft's wings. (See www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm).

* Also there are alot of anti-chemtrail activists reporting harrassment, but on 5/19/00 Cliff Carnicom, owner of the most proactive anti-chemtrail website, contacted the FBI regarding impersonation, libel, professional hacking and death threats. His site alone has submitted 3,087 letters to federal officials, and 828 letters to state officials and TO DATE NO RESPONSE HAS BEEN RECEIVED..

D. Announcements.

* Email Congressman Tom Udall. He told a constituent he would ask for Congressional hearings. Let's hold him up to that. tom.udall@mail.house.gov

* Nationwide organization "Citizens Against Chemtrails" is putting together a massive petition for Congressional hearing purposes. Submit your name/address/email at Cliff site: www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm, or email ohwarriorgoddess@earthlink.net

* Whistleblowers can do so anonymously at www.users.ev1.net/~seektress/tips.htm

gaiacomm
04-04-2004, 10:07 AM
HAARP Project
Nikola Tesla Technology

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAARP, Weather War, And EMF Mind Control

Author: Unknown
12-23-97

In May of 1988, I wrote an article for the Canadian Intelligence Service headed "Weather War?"

The preamble written by the editor said this: "Her story, indeed, is 'stranger than fiction.' And it's only the beginning, the first glimpse of a new and uncertain factor in human affairs, opening up unimagined physical possibilities - but also threatening our very survival."

Those words were indeed prophetic. Advanced technology based on the original works of Nikola Tesla is being developed at an alarming rate. This discoverer of alternating current power source and transmission system (among other accomplishments was a genius before his time. In spite of this, his name is unfamiliar to most because soon after his death in 1943 his data was removed from libraries and his only claim to fame now is the Tesla Coil. He hoped his discoveries would be used for peaceful, life-enhancing purposes.)

While traveling in Alaska in the summer of 1994, we visited the Copper Valley area hoping to explore the old mines. A large intimidating sign blocked all access to this region. I didn't think too much of it at the time, however I later learned of a highly secret project being constructed there and was able to locate a book published in Alaska discussing the HAARP system, that being an acronym for High-frequency Active Auroral Research Project.

The authors of "Angels Don't Play This HAARP" base their information on documents they were able to view which came out of secret meeting of the U.S. Government and the U.S. Military. HAARP is a ground-based "Star Wars" weapon which has the capability to manipulate the environment in such a way as to change weather patterns, disrupt global communications systems, disrupt human mental processes, negatively affect health, and impact the Earth's upper atmosphere in an unnatural and damaging way. By interfering with the Earth's magnetic field there is no assurance that damage on an irreversible global scale will not occur.

All participants involved in designing HAARP are part of a giant partnership of government, the military and many private corporations which form defense intelligence contractual networks, and it is done in secret. Critics of the project believe that large groups of independent scientists should be talking a close look at these developments before the project is allowed to continue.

A biggest "ionospheric heater" in the world is located on the HAARP site. Focused energy could be beamed up to the ionosphere where the radio-frequency waves would interact powerfully with charged particles that are always trapped up there.

The heating effect of the focused beam would then dramatically push a plume - a large section of the ionosphere - up and outward from Earth. One critic of the project called it "skybusting."

The Earth is protected from harmful cosmic rays by the Van Allen Radiation Belt in conjunction with the Earth's magnetic field. The ozone layer protect us from ultra-violet light. If this dual barrier is weakened, allowing these high-energy particles from the ionosphere to enter the atmosphere, serve damage could be caused to the DNA blueprints of all life on Earth. This is only one of the disastrous effects of which the HAARP system capable.

Co-author Jean Manning, in conversation with a ham operator, learned that as early as 1975-76 the Soviet Union was beaming radio-frequency signals toward North America. Ham operators were picking up the 10-hertz (pulses per second) frequencies which they called Woodpecker signals because of the tapping they heard from extremely low frequency (ELF) waves. It was speculated that his ELF frequency could resonate the neurons in the human brain over great distance, resulting in mood changes in a large part of the population.

These ELF waves could cause communication interference, power failures, and weather modification designed to have a devastating effect on food production.

HAARP records disclose that when the project is up to full power, it will be able to send very low frequency and extra low frequency (VLF and ELF) waves at energy levels sufficient to affect entire regional populations. What other objective can there be but to control people?

What is even more ominous is the authors' picture of what they refer to as the "psychocivilized society." After reviewing HAARP documents and Air Force materials, the possibility is there for the HAARP transmitting system to be used "inadvertently or intentionally to after mental functions." Early research on the brain was conducted on animals, using electrodes inserted into the brain to produce different kinds of behavior. Dr. Jose M.R. Delgado developed his research so that brain-manipulating effects could be achieved at a distans, and by changing wave form, could completely change the thinking and emotional state of the subject. Even these achievements can and are being used to help people with various mental dysfunctions, but the potential for abuse appears too easy to resist for the "mad scientists" working on HAARP.

A European leader in alternative medicine, Dr. Reijo Makela has developed a technique whereby a patient's chemistry is rebalanced by using a combination of low levels of chemicals and the right frequency from a properly-tuned transmitter. He has had enormous success in treating debilitating diseases.

However, the military approach can be used for just the opposite result. A tiny amount of chemical (below generally accepted levels for toxicity) could be introduced to the enemy by some means (perhaps water or air supply); then the right frequency could be directed toward them, activating the otherwise harmless chemicals. This would render the enemy powerless, and international agreements regarding chemical warfare would not have been violated.

A radio transmitter carrying a pulsed wave of 6-12 pulses per second, acting in resonance with the radio waves which serve as a carrier, could it modulated in just the right way disrupt minds and cause serious negative health effects on humans and animals. This technology is well within the capability of HAARP and they intend to use it.

We are now the age of sophisticated electromagnetic technology which can interfere with the Earth's magnetic fields all the way up to the ionosphere. The consequences of such aggressive tampering with our natural environment are not known, nor to the HAARP designers seem to care, brushing aside any attempts to develop a regulatory presence. Frustrating those who are anti-HAARP is the veil of secrecy and deception which covers the project.

In order to "prepare" the people to accept these mind-bogging advances in technology, little bits of information are "leaked" out, like a trial balloon, to test the reaction. However, it seems that basic strategy and application remain committed to secrecy.

Perhaps the most ominous aspect of the HAARP technology is the connecting of the military non-lethal research with civilian law enforcement agencies. This means that law conforcement can use this technology against the government's domestic "adversaries" - one can only surmise who these adversaries might be. We are given a clue in the policy for non-lethal weapons which states: The term 'adversary' is used .. in its broadest sense, including those who are not declared enemies but who are engaged in activities we wish to stop... Bear in mind that these weapons are "invisible" - when used to alter thinking and behavior the victims is unaware of an "attack."

The authors provide a brief history of discoveries relating to the field of electromagnetic, beginning with Tesla's inventions in 1886 and ending with HAARP. Since 1994 HAARP has been testing its equipment, with 1998 being the projected date for a fully-operating system. The authors also warn us that it is not just the United States citizens who are in jeopardy - the HAARP system is a universal tool.

As early as 1975, the Canadian government was aware of the use of weather modification as a weapon. Are they also aware of the expanded technology of the HAARP system? Since this use of electromagnetics will affect every one of us in some way, perhaps it would be appropriate to question your MP.

Will this be the modus operandi to bring in the New World Order?

(Angels Don't Play This HAARP" - Advances In Tesla Technology, by Jean Manning and Dr. Nick Begich).

Back To Top Secret Projects

halva
04-04-2004, 10:44 AM
Both of these postings would be more appropriate on the other thread.

foot_soldier
04-04-2004, 12:33 PM
In my opinion the report "An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and its Implications for United States National Security" co-authored by Peter Schwartz and Doug Randall of the Global Business Network is exceptionally well researched and organized and, in a word, dead-on.

jayreynolds
04-04-2004, 12:37 PM
Wayne, such a boor.
Thinks he can boss anyone he pleases.
Little Stalin.

People who want to see exactly how totalitarian you are should go back over your own personal board which is supposedly dedicated to "direct democracy" and read how when I challenged you on your chemtrail posts, you responded by unilaterally banning me, and refusing to take it to a vote by the membership.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ama_lahi/messages/742?viscount=-30

halva
04-04-2004, 01:15 PM
If you refer to Ama Lahi again I'll close the archives.

I would ban you wherever and whenever I could. Democracy applies between members of a common polity, not between two sides in a war. But as a globalist in patriot's clothing you like to exploit your fellow Americans' confusion on this issue also.

gaiacomm
04-04-2004, 02:25 PM
Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

Back to top

Bonehead9
04-04-2004, 04:37 PM
Wayne,

From Ama_lahi (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ama_lahi/message/8):

My view is that "the People-at-large" are not interested in being
decision makers. This is why they have no identity other than being
the "People-at-large". People who are interested in politics will be
involved already, either by being in parties or by being members of
NGOs or citizens' action groups.

In my opinion all of the worst aspects of the existing political
system come from extra-institutional vested interests'
ability to mobilise large numbers of uninformed and irresponsible (in
the sense of not having anything VERY tangible to lose) people to
vote (or otherwise act) in destructive and antisocial ways.

Why do I smell the taint of pseudo-intellectual elitism in your writings?

gaiacomm
04-04-2004, 06:38 PM
Bonehead:

Stay away from this thread or stick to the subject...either way your ip address is up for grabs!

Bonehead9
04-04-2004, 07:13 PM
Bonehead:

Stay away from this thread or stick to the subject...either way your ip address is up for grabs!

Are you threatening me, Smeagol?

Why don't you stick to the topic of this thread. What is your position on global warming?

a) Does it exsit?

b) If it does exist, what is the magnitude of the threat?

c) If it does exist, is the solution to the threat political or scientific?

In your own words please, no spam, no cut and paste.

Here is your chance to strut your stuff, Lance. Go for it.

:D :D :D

jayreynolds
04-04-2004, 07:42 PM
If you refer to Ama Lahi again I'll close the archives.

I would ban you wherever and whenever I could. Democracy applies between members of a common polity, not between two sides in a war. But as a globalist in patriot's clothing you like to exploit your fellow Americans' confusion on this issue also.

What the hell, Wayne, you think your threats mean anything at all to me.
For the record, I think all debunkers should read the type of postings you have been putting on your own messageboard, and respond if they damn well please, you silly little twit. Here is the URL so that everybody can see for themselves what a hypocrite you really are:

Wayne, such a boor.
Thinks he can boss anyone he pleases.
Little Stalin.

People who want to see exactly how totalitarian you are should go back over your own personal board which is supposedly dedicated to "direct democracy" and read how when I challenged you on your chemtrail posts, you responded by unilaterally banning me, and refusing to take it to a vote by the membership.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ama_lahi/messages/742?viscount=-30

gaiacomm
04-04-2004, 10:35 PM
Bonehead:

Stay away from this thread or stick to the subject...either way your ip address is up for grabs!

Are you threatening me, Smeagol? NO

Why don't you stick to the topic of this thread. What is your position on global warming? IT HAS BEEN OCCURING FOR OVER 75 YEARS!

a) Does it exsit? YES!

b) If it does exist, what is the magnitude of the threat? IF WE DO NOT CONVERT TO OTHER FORMS OF ENERGY AND CEASE THE DESTRUCTION OF LAND AND FORESTS AND USE OTHER FORMS OF DISPOSAL THAN THE OCEANS AND AIR THEN WE HAVE A CHANCE. IF WE STAY ON THIS COURSE IN 300 YEARS OR SOONER WE WILL BE LIKE MARS!

c) If it does exist, is the solution to the threat political or scientific? BOTH!

In your own words please, no spam, no cut and paste.

Here is your chance to strut your stuff, Lance. Go for it.

:D :D :D

gaiacomm
04-04-2004, 10:38 PM
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Posts: 370
Location: Florida
Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:25 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

Bonehead9
04-05-2004, 04:24 PM
Smeagol, - got spam?

gaiacomm
04-05-2004, 04:59 PM
Hey...why not call Dr. Hur on the phone and see if he is a Physics person.

After all judging from the website and all the principals..I mean look at the advisors and homeland security and who knows what else.

Go to www.gaiacomminternational.com and find out for yourself!

Bonehead9
04-05-2004, 08:22 PM
Hey...why not call Dr. Hur on the phone and see if he is a Physics person.

After all judging from the website and all the principals..I mean look at the advisors and homeland security and who knows what else.

Go to www.gaiacomminternational.com and find out for yourself!

Are you still trying to hack into the computers of people who visit your site?

gaiacomm
04-06-2004, 01:31 AM
Hey...why not call Dr. Hur on the phone and see if he is a Physics person.

After all judging from the website and all the principals..I mean look at the advisors and homeland security and who knows what else.

Go to www.gaiacomminternational.com and find out for yourself!

Are you still trying to hack into the computers of people who visit your site?

Don't need to! And its not my site!

Bonehead9
04-06-2004, 11:51 AM
Lance - I think a new name is in order.

how about "Spicolli"


http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/photos/haubrick.jpg

"Dude, that's my skull. I'm so wasted!"


You shouldn't smoke so much of the happy weed, lance.

gaiacomm
04-06-2004, 01:28 PM
Nice Photo!

gaiacomm
04-06-2004, 01:37 PM
I know you do not wish the contents of your computer to be posted on the internet for all to see and I know you do not wish your private info like SS number, Drivers Lic, Bankcard info where you work, traffic tickets, school records and just about anything on you and etc posted for all to see!

Would you?

Come on a dare us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All we need is your public permission to post your private data.
This will not create lawsuits as long as you give us permission.

We are waiting to show you how powerful information is and how easy it is to get.

jayreynolds
04-06-2004, 07:27 PM
but, wait, did 'Judah Ben Hur' write this?:
http://theezine.net/articles/60/GAIACOMM-CORPORATION-4G-WIRELESS.html

or did Stephen Swanson write this?:
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2002/Jan02/water.htm

Looks like Dr. Ben Hur has some 'splainin' to do.

Wonder what's going to happen?

gaiacomm
04-06-2004, 09:44 PM
but, wait, did 'Judah Ben Hur' write this?:
http://theezine.net/articles/60/GAIACOMM-CORPORATION-4G-WIRELESS.html

or did Stephen Swanson write this?:
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2002/Jan02/water.htm

Looks like Dr. Ben Hur has some 'splainin' to do.

Wonder what's going to happen?


Well one thing for sure we know that Dr. Ben-Hur is real and must be well connected somewhere to write essays that insight and have such far reaching technology that you cannot find anywhere on the internet....connected with homeland security, has a residence address...but yet connected to the governer of florida and some arcane dod projects. What a cover...and Lance well here is a respected environment engineer that 2works with gaiacomm?

Ben-Hur writes such insightful letters and has a technology that is so exact and so arcane. Maybe he is a person who is tryying to tell us something....maybe he escaped from the KEEP!

And the FBI, CIA and NSA all leave him alone...I wonder why?

gaiacomm
04-06-2004, 09:49 PM
know you do not wish the contents of your computer to be posted on the internet for all to see and I know you do not wish your private info like SS number, Drivers Lic, Bankcard info where you work, traffic tickets, school records and just about anything on you and etc posted for all to see!

Would you?

Come on a dare us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All we need is your public permission to post your private data.
This will not create lawsuits as long as you give us permission.



Oh yes, jay that applies to you as well....so let us know, both of you so you both can see the power of the internet!


We are waiting!

We are waiting to show you how powerful information is and how easy it is to get

gaiacomm
04-06-2004, 09:51 PM
Jay:

You are boring and ignorant. You make claims that have no substance.
You assume with no data!

You cut and paste information that you yourself do not understand!

You do not love Karen as much anymore!

Karen needs a new man in her life!
Karen needs love from a man and not a cyberjunkie!

Do you like incest?

Do you like fear?

You attack from a computer terminal that has a trace on it and can be downloaded. Your firewall is open Jay!

You debate with insult. You attempt to deflect the real issues.

You hate yourself!

You love Porn!

You are so alone in your world and wish to be noticed!

You will never come forward and debate with anyone because you are a coward.

Nobody is going to debate with you scientifically because you are not a scientist and you cannot make a difference. You are one of millions that surf the internet for places like this to play and be someone.

When was the last time you made real LOVE to Karen?

You enjoy the LOVEMAKING of cyberman....are you GAY?

Jay....this forum is trying to be serious without your CRAP!

We respond to you in the same way as you would understand...its quite refreshing to lower my standards and write such trash on this forum to let off steam! Its not our normal way but it is good for all of us to pretend and be naughty sometimes as long as it is done for fun and not to harm anyone!

But you Jay you found people that respond back to you and that is your only strength on the internet!

Halva and others wish to inform rather than insult so please curtail your insults and we will ours.

Attempt to be civil and we also will be.

Note:

For the record your IP address has been captured and placed with the nerds to have fun with so wherever you go and whenever you sign on they know. I suggest you take off anything that you do not want public off your computers!

Back to top

gaiacomm
04-06-2004, 10:01 PM
Jay:

You might wish to think twice before you take on Dr. Hur!
Dr. Judah Ben-Hur ( no email / no homepage) wrote:

The case for regime change in the USA

A president and respected physicist of a Californian technologies company
dips into journalism to make his case for a more transparent United States
of America.

"Strange times are those in which we live when old and young are taught in
falsehoods school. And the one man that dares to tell the truth is called
at once a lunatic and a fool" - Plato

"And those who perform jihad for us, we shall certainly guide them in our
ways, and God is surely with the doers of good." (Quran XXXIX; 69)

"You have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad." (Hadith)

To all who read and understand: it is time to take the next step in
understanding. After careful and meticulous research, including access to
files and data guarded by the United States Government, I have uncovered
information that has been written about, talked about, read about, and in
many cases silenced to protect and to confuse those who wish to uncover its
not so guarded secrets.

Careful and planned exposure of this information seems to be the only way to
begin the process of enlightenment of not just the American people but all
peoples of this planet who are considered common men and women.

We cannot blame the "United States Government" for our woes, but ourselves
for allowing our own Constitution to manipulate and control not just us but
others in its path towards imperial rule, which by the way was why some
people left England to come to the Americas to rid themselves of that
tyranny.
True democracy does not impede growth or dominate others. It was established
to be a beacon for those who wish to call on its existence and only that. We
do not have the right to impose democracy on nations or peoples who do not
truly ask for it.

The United States in its own right is a terrorist country imposing
pseudo-democratic policies through crafty methods - controlling without
regard to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness! Regime change within
the United States should be seriously considered.

Fact: the United States has in its possession weapons of mass destruction,
so why does not the United Nations impose restrictions against the United
States?

Fear is the reason why no nation or individual will want to go up against
this Goliath! Well I have a small stone, I know where to throw it, and if I
have to by myself so be it.

The fact that Thomas Jefferson who co-authored the now infamous doctrine of
democracy himself was an advocate of slaves.

Hypocrisy runs through the veins of the elite American people who control
the destinies and lives of so many people.

What we all must learn is that the power in change is in the people that
make up the majority of the civilized and so-called uncivilized world.


What gives this small group of people their control over us is the fact that
they know we all will not collectively give up our lives to get back control
of the government and rid ourselves of the self-serving politicians and
business executives that control what we eat, where we sleep, who to like
and not like, what to read, what to write, how to dress, how and who to
love, who to hate, what race is superior, who gets education, who not, where