PED's disgusting posts to me...

[Syd]

Moderator, you need to check out PED's posts on December 10th, on the Crude Katie...thread. I can't imagine anything more vile and disgusting than that. Please intervene...

Thanks,

Syd

[kehvan]

Moderator, you need to check out PED's posts on December 10th, on the Crude Katie...thread. I can't imagine anything more vile and disgusting than that. Please intervene...

Thanks,

Syd
Since it was decided that foul language is an acceptable item to post on this forum, I some how doubht the moderator will do anything about it.

[admin]

Moderator, you need to check out PED's posts on December 10th, on the Crude Katie...thread. I can't imagine anything more vile and disgusting than that. Please intervene...
Making decisions about which 'arguments' or 'disputes' to get in the middle of is the hardest part of any forum administrators job.

My experience says to let things work themselves out so that they can stand on their own and grow into 'mature' forums where everyone not only feels responsible for themselves, but for the larger community that they are part of.

On this issue particular issue, of the image that is a spoof of the original "Uncle Sam Wants You," I find that while it's not a very 'mature' way of expression oneself, it's also not so offensive and out of line that it needs moderator intervention.

I do however feel that if this image was used over and over, I would view it differently and would have to reconsider my position.

Since it was decided that foul language is an acceptable item to post on this forum, I some how doubht the moderator will do anything about it.
Yeah -- about that foul language -- it's not so much acceptable as it's tolerated -- to a point. Allowing people to exercise good judgment in their posts is a very important part of any forum. I would rather have the occasionally instance where someone crossed the line and had to be asked, nicely, to step back on the other side -- than have a 'bad word' filter that *everyone* can get around -- with their eyes closed.

So in closing:

Syd: Sorry, but I'm not going to be able to intervene on this one...

PED: Play nice, please.

[Biederman]

On this issue particular issue, of the image that is a spoof of the original "Uncle Sam Wants You," I find that while it's not a very 'mature' way of expression oneself, it's also not so offensive and out of line that it needs moderator intervention.
Errrr.... Whatever your batting average was up 'til now, it just dropped a notch - consider posting more often, so that mistakes do less harm to your average...

Kehvan, the board's resident name-calling semi-reformed for-now spammer, is the one posting the "Uncle Sam Wants To Fuck You" :wink: picture. PED is the one calling Syd a baby-killing cunt because she chooses war, which kills babies, over diplomacy, which every governmental body insisted upon prior to Bush's illegal invasion of Iraq.

[Syd]

.....And Syd is the one calling PED an angry, disgusting, potty-mouth, who can't stand that people actually have the audacity to believe in standing up to murderous maniacs...

BTW, Biederman, for the record, we realize you libs and your "baby-killer" mantra, is supposed to make us feel convicted, but we don't feel that way at all. If Saddam were still in power he would probably have single-handedly killed more than the amount of people who have died in this war.

April 28, 2003
Families discover Hussein's murder by numbers
By Scott Peterson | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

ABU GHRAIB, IRAQ – The tears now falling in the Abu Ghraib cemetery can't be counted. But the graves can be: 993 of them, victims of Saddam Hussein, marked only by yellow and black metal plates with crudely-painted numbers. These were forgotten victims, most of them Shiite Muslims that their families say "prayed too much" or who opposed the regime, tucked behind a high wall a mile away from Iraq's notorious Abu Ghraib prison.
They were forgotten, that is, until the American war against Mr. Hussein unearthed state-sanctioned murder and linked the anonymous numbers with the names of those buried here.
Now families are digging up the remains for reburial, and finding for the first time the physical evidence of Hussein's regime. Among the field of markers, number 659 was just another pile of earth, until the al-Atabi family arrived to claim their father, Fadil Sadoun.
"Come back, come back to your family, to your children!" pleads Fadil's daughter, Rabab, at the center of a clutch of women clad in long jet-black gowns who slap their faces in grief. "He's an unimportant man, with children. Why did you kill him?" she wails at her ousted president.
The US fought this war for strategic reasons: to destroy any of Iraq's remaining weapons of mass destruction, to advance US security interests in a post-Sept. 11 world, even--at least in the minds of many Iraqis--to control Mideast oil.
But on the ground in Iraq, tha fall of Hussein is yielding an overwhelming human story of great loss. Families have become gravediggers, sifting through dirt with their fingers to recover every bone and scrap of cloth of Saddam Hussein's legacy.
While these scenes may bring closure to families, they are painful nonetheless. And the families are only now starting to flock to this site.
"Be quiet. Slowly, slowly, that's it," says Fadil Sadoun's cousin Hassan Sadran Hussein, as he directs men with tattooed hands and heavy-stoned silver Shiite rings on their fingers, as they feel through the dirt three feet down in the grave.
"Search well, don't leave anything," Hassan says, when more of the skeleton is revealed, and more dirt clawed away with a shovel. "Take your time."
Bones pile up on a graveside blanket, making the sound of dry wood clattering together when more bones are added.
Fadil Sadoun was first taken by security police in 1991, and held at Abu Ghraib prison for two years. When the overtly religious man was arrested again in 1996, he didn't come home. Instead, he was executed in 1997, given a number, and buried.
The loss seems unbearable for son Mustapha, who weeps uncontrollably a few feet away, his tears staining his pale blue shirt. Other family members try to comfort him, and finally have to carry him away, to the van that brought a wood coffin to collect the patricarch's remains.
"Oh my father, my father!" Mustapha chants with a broken voice. "You should be happy-Saddam is gone."
As dawn turns into a hot, blindingly bright and windy morning, more families arrive with scraps of paper scrawled with numbers, and with rudimentary coffins in tow. They walk purposefully along the rows of graves, scanning the markers as if searching for a familiar face in a crowd.
Beneath their feet are the morbid secrets that will define the toppled regime. Bureaucratic efficiency was masterful here. Numbers of graves are finally being matched to names of missing political prisoners by custodians of the cemeteries, who can finally speak out.
The executioners may be gone, but the cruel pain they inflicted endures.
"These are the victims of the crimes of Saddam Hussein," says Mohamed Hussein, who dropped upon grave number 288-of his brother, Ali Hussein-when he found it. He clenched the dirt in his fists, broke down, and leaned for support on a coffin that had clearly been used before.
"Tell the world," he says. "My brother prayed, and they took him from the street." Ali's coffin was carried to a truck, and placed alongside another coffin. That one held the remains of a pair of brothers of a neighboring family, found in a single grave.
While Iraq's modern history is being written today with freshly revealed documents, the opening of Hussein's torture chambers, and the testimonies of officially sanctioned killers, it is the buried treasure here that tells Iraq's true story.
"This was to keep Saddam on his throne. He would do anything," says Jassim Mohamed, whose 70-year-old uncle, in grave number 886, was killed with his militant Islamic son at their home south of Baghdad in October 2000. "Anyone who opposed him, he would kill them."
Among the staunchest of those opponents was Tariq Abu al-Hewa, a 27-year-old militant who lay 20 feet away, in grave number 834. He was arrested in 1999, executed in 2000, and operated with an Islamist group--even using a nom de guerre--that tried to kill senior members of the ruling Baath Party.
"The security agents took him from the street while he was selling perfume," says brother Khalid Rahim Hussein, as he used his car keys as a knife to tear strips of white cloth to wrap Tariq's bones.
"Saddam was a criminal, a dictator, and fascist," says Khalid. "I thank the Americans a lot-we praise them for ending Saddam, with God's help."
"If it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have found the corpse," adds cousin Riath Idramis.
The cemetery compound is part of a larger public one just a mile or so from the prison. And though Hussein ordered a mass release of prisoners last October, to reward Iraqis for giving their leader a perfect 100 percent reelection result, evidence emerged Friday of much more recent, wartime killing.
At the entrance to the prison is a portrait of Hussein that reads: "There is no life without the sun; there is no dignity without Saddam." That dignity was destroyed for 13 men accused of spying, when they were caught using handheld Thuraya satellite phones.
Still wearing prison-issue uniforms of white with blue stripes, their bodies were dug up from a mass grave just outside the prison by men with shovels, alerted to the spot by the smell. The bodies had their eyes strung with white or black cloth blindfolds, and their hands were tightly bound behind their backs. Some seem to have been executed, with bullet holes in their heads.
As accused spies, most were apparently held in the same cell block as Newsday journalists Matthew McAllester and Moises Saman, and freelance photographer Molly Bingham, an American, and Johan Rydeng Spanner, a Dane. Those non-Iraqis were also charged with spying, but released during the war after eight days.
Former prisoner Ihsan Hussein Mohamed on Friday estimated that the 13 men, the alleged spies, had been executed no later than April 8-the day before American forces arrived in the heart of Baghdad, and pulled down the statue of Hussein.
These men were, perhaps, the last official victims of the regime.
And Hussein's henchmen may have been waiting for the 13 bodies to arrive at the bleak, windswept cemetery about a mile away, possibly to put them into the 14 unmarked, empty graves that already had been dug there, beyond the last marker for grave number 993.
Abadi Jabbar found himself there at those empty holes Friday, as he searched for the remains of tribal cousins. Already he had found five. Still missing, according to the scrap of paper gripped in his right hand: numbers 867, 974, and 977.
When asked what this scene told him about Saddam Hussein, he replied: "You are the great witness. You have seen it with your own eyes."

By John Hughes

SALT LAKE CITY – When CNN news executive Eason Jordan went public in the New York Times last month with hitherto untold stories of horrendous torture in Iraq, he was doing the world an important service. His article raised a storm because he'd kept silent about the torture for a dozen years while lobbying the Saddam Hussein government for CNN access and facilities. Mr. Jordan argued that to have told his story earlier would have jeopardized the lives of Iraqis and CNN staff in Baghdad.
I wish he'd told what he knew earlier, but even belatedly, it was important corroboration of the fact that Hussein's regime ranks with Hitler's and Stalin's and Pol Pot's and with those of a bunch of other contemporary tyrants from Bosnia to Rwanda in its cruelty to its own people.
Jordan told of an Iraqi cameraman beaten for a week and subjected to electroshock torture in a secret police basement.
He told of executions and teeth ripped out with pliers. He told of a woman beaten daily for two months while her father was forced to watch. Finally, as the American forces approached, the secret police tore her body apart, leaving it in a plastic bag on her family's doorstep.
As American troops have secured Iraq's cities, frightened citizens have emerged to revisit torture cells where hooks for hanging remain, to dig up graves looking for executed relatives, and to start telling their terrible tales of torture and killing on a scale that is mind-boggling.
Ears were sliced off, particularly of young men who went absent without leave from their military units. Official torturers left behind a trail of maimed victims without tongues, toenails, eyes. Thousands of people are missing and may never be found, even as new mass graves are uncovered, and family members scrabble in individual graves in search of relatives lost and probably executed.
Even if weapons of mass destruction are never found and the connection to Al Qaeda is never established beyond all doubt, putting an end to this despicable regime has been a noble cause.
Now the question is: What are we to do in the aftermath?
Where the torturers can be found, they must be brought to justice. But beyond this immediate task, the story of what Hussein did to his country and people must be pieced together in its entirety, recorded, and preserved as history for successive generations lest they forget.
This is no ghoulish whim. Most of the readers of this column probably live in free societies. Even in countries once not-free - in Africa, Eastern Europe, Asia - democracy is on the march. It is easy in this democratic environment to forget the extent of man's inhumanity to man in backward lands where tyrants still rule.
Last week, Americans celebrated the 2003 Day of Remembrance and the 10th anniversary of the US Holocaust Museum. Many of those who had suffered personally as a result of the Holocaust expressed concern that, for successive generations, apathy or affluence, or simply distance in time from the events, might cloud memories of what the Nazis did to 6 million Jews.
In Iraq's postwar trauma there is, as one New York Times reporter put it, "a great national catharsis, confronting the black heart of Mr. Hussein's rule and proclaiming its depravity for everyone to see."
But the electricity is coming back on, there will be running water, the garbage will get collected, and new construction will begin where mountains of rubble now lie.
Normalcy will return, and in a land whose history stretches back to the beginning of civilization, Hussein's reign of terror will be but a chapter to be forgotten.
It should not be.
There is concern - and properly so - over the loss of Iraq's cultural treasures from the pillaged Iraqi National Museum.
Those treasures, which record the emergence and growth of a great civilization, should be restored and preserved.
Preserved, too, in one of those decadent golden palaces that Hussein built while his people went without, should be the dark story of his time. With the help of the Iraqi people, it should become a permanent museum recording the murders and torture-inflicted anguish that was imposed on his subjects.
In this way, future generations would never forget, and hopefully would never permit a return to such misery.

***So, Biederman, if you want to be concerned about people dying, about children dying, you should remember that Saddam Hussein, the murderous tyrant, tortured and killed his own people. I don't care how he got into power or if we dealt with him in the past, economically. We didn't torture and kill his people, he did. He is responsible for his own sick actions. Saddam, is the baby-killer, not our troops and not those who support our troops' efforts and our president's decision to stand up to the sick freak...

[admin]

On this issue particular issue, of the image that is a spoof of the original "Uncle Sam Wants You," I find that while it's not a very 'mature' way of expression oneself, it's also not so offensive and out of line that it needs moderator intervention.
Errrr.... Whatever your batting average was up 'til now, it just dropped a notch - consider posting more often, so that mistakes do less harm to your average...
What??

-r

[Syd]

Biederman wrote:
admin wrote:
On this issue particular issue, of the image that is a spoof of the original "Uncle Sam Wants You," I find that while it's not a very 'mature' way of expression oneself, it's also not so offensive and out of line that it needs moderator intervention.
Errrr.... Whatever your batting average was up 'til now, it just dropped a notch - consider posting more often, so that mistakes do less harm to your average...

>>What?? <<
-r

**Good luck trying to make sense of Biederman...**

[Biederman]

**Good luck trying to make sense of Biederman...**
Well, we know it's beyond you, Syd, but that's not saying much.

Meanwhile, admin seems to continue to miss the fact that it was Kehvan, not PED, who posted the 'image that is a spoof of the original "Uncle Sam Wants You"'.

Syd is whining about PED calling her a baby-killing cunt, admin, not about Kehvan using the image that is a spoof of the original "Uncle Sam Wants You" over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

On this issue particular issue, of the image that is a spoof of the original "Uncle Sam Wants You," I find that while it's not a very 'mature' way of expression oneself, it's also not so offensive and out of line that it needs moderator intervention.

I do however feel that if this image was used over and over, I would view it differently and would have to reconsider my position.

[admin]

Meanwhile, admin seems to continue to miss the fact that it was Kehvan, not PED, who posted the 'image that is a spoof of the original "Uncle Sam Wants You"'.
Really, can't we all just get along?

-r

[Biederman]

Really, can't we all just get along?

-r
No one should be allowed to use that line until after they've been whacked with batons by a crowd of cops hopped up on day-old donuts and columbian coffee.

[admin]

Really, can't we all just get along?
No one should be allowed to use that line until after they've been whacked with batons by a crowd of cops hopped up on day-old donuts and columbian coffee.

okay -- then I'll revert back to "Play Nice."

-r

[Biederman]

Really, can't we all just get along?
No one should be allowed to use that line until after they've been whacked with batons by a crowd of cops hopped up on day-old donuts and columbian coffee.

okay -- then I'll revert back to "Play Nice."

-r
No, no, no, I've already organized a group of off-duty LAPD boys to swing over to your house after the second shift to "establish your credentials". As soon as you're off life support, you'll be free to quote Rodney King without challenge.

Trust me, it's for your own good.

[admin]

Really, can't we all just get along?
No one should be allowed to use that line until after they've been whacked with batons by a crowd of cops hopped up on day-old donuts and columbian coffee.

okay -- then I'll revert back to "Play Nice."

-r
No, no, no, I've already organized a group of off-duty LAPD boys to swing over to your house after the second shift to "establish your credentials". As soon as you're off life support, you'll be free to quote Rodney King without challenge.

Trust me, it's for your own good.

Wrong answer. The correct answer was, "Yes, I'll try to be nicer."

Let's go ahead and end this thread here and move back to the "Current Events" forum.

[Syd]

No, no, no, I've already organized a group of off-duty LAPD boys to swing over to your house after the second shift to "establish your credentials". As soon as you're off life support, you'll be free to quote Rodney King without challenge.

Trust me, it's for your own good.


Administrator,

It's people like PED and Biederman, who ruin perfectly good political boards. They spew vile, disgusting garbage to people who are trying to have decent political discussions with other adults who have the ability to do the same...

[Hooligan]

Syd, the right wing posters here are not innocent of the charges you bring against PED and Biederman. I am with the admin on this. This type of behavior, while regrettable, shouldn't be grounds for deletion or dismissal. To do so would damage the freedom we enjoy on this board. I have to tolerate the abusive rants of Kehvan and Tayken, but I am willing to make that sacrifice for free speech. The only posts that should be removed are the ones like the spammer is doing today under Peter_Angelo and Joe_Dawson.

[Peter Angelo]

I AGREE - THE FAUX PA IS A MORON - BUT HE MAKES MY POINT

[PED]

Wow! I never knew this section was here. Just read all about big bad ole ME! as told by the woman who has told big bad ole me that:

I hate America

I hate Americans

I hate George W. Bush

I love Saddam Hussein

I protect Saddam Hussein

I support Saddam Hussein murdering people

I want to see America destroyed.

and so she bitches in true fashion, when I've had enough of her accusations because I don't side with her position and then turn it all around on her in a way that made her stop and think.

So what does she do when smacked in the face with the truth....

Pleads that I should be deleted because my right to freedom of speech does not meet with her approval.

Can you say princess? I submit to the moderator that syd be deleted on the grounds that she advocates that my constitutional right be withdrawn from me, which constitutes hate literature and that her advocacy in that regard is treasonous in that it betrays the United States constitution.